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BATTLE ROYALE Review
There are movies that are bottles of nitro being transported through an unspecified Latin American jungle road journey which will certainly end in the deaths or certain mutilation of all those concerned in the transport of said materials. BATTLE ROYALE is just such a film.
I’m not talking about physical deaths, I’m talking about the spectacular type of swan song deaths in a metaphorical sense. The swan’s dive into molten rock to arise as a phoenix. This film would do that to its distributor... it would touch off a national debate that would both burn and transform the studio into a bastion of freedom within American Distribution Companies. However...
There is no American Distribution company that will even dare come near BATTLE ROYALE for distribution. Why? Because while we in the United States like to pretend to be in the center of a free society, the truth of the matter is hypocrisy is the ruling class of the day. There is an air of goose-stepping in this country when it comes to the freedom of art.
Many of you have read about BATTLE ROYALE on this site. You know the premise about a Junior High School Class being chosen to go to an island where they are forced to kill one another to the last boy or girl. We have collectively read that this film calls to mind a parallel to the ‘real world’ shows of today. That it reminded some of King’s THE RUNNING MAN story. That there is a bit of LORD OF THE FLIES in place.
Still others in the Talk Back’s beneath these articles have decided to raise the banner of ignorance in openly denouncing the film as some form of pornography and violence. Comparing it to Snuff films and Child Porn. Raising their voice to claim that something must be seriously wrong with the Japanese to have imagined and executed the making of this film. All sight unseen mind you. Based solely upon reading the concept. An adamant blind position of moral superiority.
As the ‘legend’ of this film grows you can be sure that various senators and representatives will begin to point and mention this film as further evidence of the eating away of society via the medium of film. How the very moral fiber of our once great nation is being corrupted by these Babylonian heathens that would wound the very heart of our nation with these cinematic blasphemies. Again without having seen the movie in question.
Even now, the filmmaker is making cuts to the film to tone the violence down and make it more palpable and 'safe' for western audiences that are so anemic in their tolerance of satire while exercising their higher moral sensibilities that they never truly see the film for what it is. They get distracted by the concept and the bare bones boiling down of the film that they never see the important side of the film. The point that the filmmaker was making.
BATTLE ROYALE is no snuff work of child pornography. The film is no demon waiting to be unleashed upon the society as a whole. What this movie is instead… is brilliant.
Remember when you very first saw Jodie Foster running through the Quantico obstacle course while Tak Fujimoto tracked alongside… you suddenly realized that this was no B-suspense crime film you were watching?
Well, BATTLE ROYALE’s first 18 minutes educates the viewer that this movie isn’t playing for laughs. That this is no low budget work of exploitation thrills. That death isn’t being treated as a jovial act for which the audience will cheer. In fact most likely, given your knowledge about the concept of the film… you become afraid.
This flick has the balls to be real. They took the concept… the basic inhuman concept of the film and enacted it as though it were really happening.
The children are really young looking. This isn’t 25 year olds playing seventh graders in Junior High School. These are 11 and 12 year old kids… maybe they’re 14, but they look extremely young. They do not relish the thing they’ve been forced into. They do not take what is happening lightly. Some can’t cope and kill themselves. Some with crushes on one another take the Romeo & Juliet approach. Some try to hide. Some fight only to survive. Some decide to really get into the situation in a Tom Berenger PLATOON sort of way.
I never expected this film to be a great movie, I expected it to be exploitation. I expected shallow character work. I expected gratuitous playing to the camera grand deaths. I thought the film would play like DOOM or any other VIDEO GAME DEATH MATCH I’ve seen, but director Kinji Fukasaku didn’t make this film impersonal or easy. He made it hard, and he did that by developing the characters. Making you care about these kids. Making the deaths not spectacular, but rather horrifying.
Perhaps it should be noted that when AICN's Dr Sotha interviewed Mr Fukasaku, he revealed that the film was made to exorcise the demons in his memory from World War II when over 2/3rds of his classmates were blown to bits by an American Bomb. That is what is at the heart of this film. The insanity of violence placed before our eyes to horrify not titillate.
You know how in HALLOWEEN you don’t care about any of the characters except for Ms Curtis? Well, that’s because Carpenter developed that character on out… so when she is in peril, we feel it for her. We empathize with her. And thus we are a part of the story and wish her a successful journey.
Here… NOONE is safe and we care about all of them. There are groups that are attempting to beat the system by working together. Some that can’t conceive of killing and are forced to do so at the risk of their own lives… trembling, crying… horrified at their own actions. Distrust and fear between everyone. Fear that your best friend will kill you when the time draws near. Hearing the announcements about who is alive and who is dead each morning. Updates on the recently departed amongst the 42 original lot of students.
These types of films in the U.S. feel safe. They set up characters that we know are pure and good and will live for the sunrise and a happy ending. THAT ISN’T HERE. Instead we have forced Darwinism. The conversations afterwards are less about ‘how cool it was when blah blah bought it’ and more about what sort of society could possibly condone the acts that take place. What had to have come before in order that this fiction would be a reality.
This film has an incredible power in place. It is very much a movie with amazing emotional resonance and power. Closer to VIRGIN SUICIDES than you believe. Closer to that than slasher films or gore exploitation. BATTLE ROYALE has a real brilliance of character and the children are always just that. Stuck in a situation beyond anything they could expect or prepare for. I found my hands clasped upon my face in shock and despair multiple times through out the screening and when it was over… I was shook through and through.
Pray that an American Distributor will release this uncut and unrated. Artisan this would be a big one for you, but do you have the balls to do it. Like I said at the opening of this review… the movie is dangerous to play with… Not to society, but politically. And with knobs like Lieberman and McCain in place… With politicians wanting to make a name for themselves and beat up on film all at the same time… this film is dangerous. But it also happens to be brilliantly acted, filmed and executed.
This is a film of uncompromised nerve. A film with the honesty to be as brutal and harsh as any you have ever seen before. In a world of watered down cinema and spineless executive control, where else can the artform turn, but to another country to unleash films with the raw nerves to touch off national and international debates.
BATTLE ROYALE is not just a fantastic film, but an important work on a precipice of the most dangerous period facing cinema in the last 40 years. This film is better than I was ever led to believe. Powerful and hypnotic and emotionally draining. See it if your country let’s you.
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At least you Americans can let them know what you think about their crazy ways when you unleash PEARL HARBOR on their asses.
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Isn't it just Godzilla on Monster Island with teenagers instead of guys in rubber suits?
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"...you can be sure that various senators ... *will* begin to point and mention this film as further evidence of the eating away of society ... without having seen the film."
Great review Harry but (there is always a 'there is always a but'"), are you attacking people who have not yet said a word for denouncing a film they have not yet seen?
Sounds like an interesting film. If only people wouldn't whip up such controversy around it... -
Your honest reviews are the best, Release this movie. Thank You.
-jd -
you guys in America will wake up and see what damage you are making to the rest of the planet... you are controlling economy, politics, and even entertainment, while the worls is crashing into chaos...
you refuse to stop using chemical products damaging the environment, you're helping the worst dictators if they've got money that you can get, you're watching the intimate privacy of european and asian people with your fucking Echelon program...
But , worst of all, you're living in a fucking hypocrital society : anyone can buy guns even kids, but movies or music are the reason why people are killed, so you're censoring people...
but what piss me more off, is that you can't even accept other cultures, the american one being the best one....
oh shit, i said hat i had to say, only one more thing : Battle Royale is scheduled to be released in a full version in Europe in 2 or 3 months...
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As much as I love America, as much as I still believe it's a country that makes many things possible, as much as I am annoyed sometimes by the way Europeans (us, me) follow too slowly the trends, I also do believe America is the most "hypocritical" society in the West... Probably the only country in the supposedly civilized world where death penalty and gun access are justified by the leaders, whereas art (movie, music) is blamed for all the bad things happening... And don't get me started on the hypocrisy concerning sex, it's even worst... Shame on you people...
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You know, since I know someone is going to mention this sooner or later, I think I finally figured it out. You see, for all the times people have corrected Harry on spelling 'No One' and 'noone', I have come to the conclusion that Harry knows full well that he's misspelling it and only continues to do so because we've come to expect it, kinda like a Hitchcock cameo in Hitchcock movie, or bad Cal Jammer acting... Now that the dreaded NOONE has been mentioned in THIS talkback, I can get to the real point of my post. Yes, I can see senators and politicians saying things about this movie without seeing it. But I also remember a bit of legislation that someone tried to pass a few years ago that would have resulted in a lot of anime and Mallrats (article made sure to mention Mallrats by name) being classified child porn. The concept was that ANY movie or video featuring characters who were underage (even if the actors PLAYING the characters were of age) who engaged in sexual acts or nudity would be considered child porn. The article I read about this also seemed to imply that anime in which the characters are not of age in sexual situations would also be seen in the same light. (C'mon... Pretty much all the hentai anime stars High School Girls... Hell, pretty much ALL nudity comes from teenage girls in non-hentai anime, too) What did this add to the thread? Nothing. But that's why I call it a rambling...
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Defintely one of your best reviews. You always rise to the occasion when it really matters.
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Purely for the reason it's a subtitled film, and therefore has a much smaller audience. The way the powers that be think is that your average art house patron will be able to comprehend the content rather than your average Joe at the local drive in. Snobbery may well be this films saviour, Man Bites Dog, Tetsuo the Iron Man and Ai No Corrida being examples of hard core non English Language films escaping the net of controversy thrown by aspiring moral guardians. Heres hoping that a film that sounds so relevant escapes unharmed. ps, god bless region free DVD
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You know why? Because it's BAAAAAD. If this movie came out without politicians getting upset over it, it wouldn't gross 100 thousand dollars. The way this movie can become Blair Witch Project or at least Texas Chainsaw Massacre is if, and only if, it startsshowing up on news reports generating free publicity and making it out as a horrible film nobody should see. Then everybody will go. It's the element of human nature that South Park mocks in it's opening graphic by saying "This show should be seen by no one".
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after reading so many of your reviews & opionions this time i have to say you're absolutely right! well said Harry! AMEN.
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Really. I've seen Lord of the Flies. This sounds like a rehash done under cloak of trying to have a bullshit elitest message. Tybalt and others like him can kiss my ass. I do think that American life is better than the other countries. If I didn't I wouldn't live here. So do me a favor and never come here. Just because you don't agree with another cultures views doesn't mean you don't accept them. It means you don't agree with them and may go as far as to say they are wrong. You don't like that? Too fucking bad. We Americans are sorry to be such a burden to your superior way of thinking. We all know European nations don't do any of those thing you mentioned in your talk back. Dipshit.
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I agree with the first bit of Key Card's post (actually, I agree with most of it, but only the first bit has to do with the actual movie.) If this movie were made with adults, or possibly even older teenagers, nobody in America would look twice at it--either in a positive or a negative light. However, since it's LITTLE KIDS, then it becomes this huuuuge statement and message and avant-garde film and other smug pseudo-intellectual bullshit. And frankly, is this something we really need to see? I know there's plenty of 'male bonding in extreme situations' in movies already; even in some situations where those men are fully expected to kill each other. And (as countless others have said) if I want to see 'kid must fight to the death for a prize', I can always go re-read 'The Long Walk', and I suspect that that story would be ten times the one in 'Battle Royale'.
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So it's brilliantly acted and made, but what's the point? That if you're forced to choose between killing someone or dying yourself, you're going to kill? Wow, I really want to slog through all this to come to that startling revelation. If this film had been made in upstate New York by an American indy, no one would care. But this site seems to get a hard-on for anything remotely Asian, so we get this.
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...that I missed this when it showed at the Egyptian. What is the current state of it's distributionability? Was it shown at Cannes or something and everyone said "no?" Will it be showing at, well, AFM later this month? A film this notorious will find some kind of release, but you're right, Lord Harold, chances are it'll be cut to bits. Artisan would be a good choice for this controversy-magnet. But do they have the cash right now to really get it out there?
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Hey Tybalt, Project Echelon is supposedly a cooperative effort between the US and other powers like the UK, France, Germany, and Australia. So its hardly a bunch of American pervs reading your emails late into the night, now is it? Besides, it takes several layers of machines before the emails would even REACH a human being. Why don't you educate yourself on a subject before you start whining about it, eh?
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Feb 14, 2001 5:45:42 AM CST
Me and my droogs listened to Harry's review, which was perfect f
by xthecrovvx
You know, reading this review makes me really think about how badly moral standards are reversing in this country...and how Columbine was Year Zero for it all....since then, as far as the media goes, it's becoming the 1950's all over again....same shit, different year....it's morality versus that "freedom of expression" that people 300 years ago kicked ass and got asses kicked to obtain....and in little ways at a time, freedom is losing....it's a very dangerous time to be a realist.....apparently, these days the only way you gain success is through being a happy happy joy joy sellout....i shudder to think about what would happen if movies like A Clockwork Orange, Full Metal Jacket, Kids, Natural Born Killers, or any of the best "controversial" movies made in the last 30 years would ever escape the MPAA right now...which is why i have my doubts about this movie ever getting the release it deserves over here.....hell, South Park had trouble getting a release here....what do you think the moral right in this country is gonna think about some Japanese import far more bloody and emotionally real than anything we've put out in years? The fact is, some Americans are trying very hard these days to escape the dark side of reality....and it's not just movies....look at the top of any music chart, any best-sellers list in the NY Times....escapism is becoming a policy as far it goes to "raising" our children, and it is the only surefire way to succeed these days....so, to every free thinking TBer here....watch your asses...few years, we're ALL getting the Ludovico treatment...Revolution is my name.....Farewell my little droogies....
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Feb 14, 2001 5:55:31 AM CST
at risk of being ripped by you superior types, I put in my two c
by milo_357
Upoon hearing of this little flick, I was very intrigued, visited the website to take a look, saw the promo. An still couldn't get rid of the underlying current of revulsion that ran through my stomach.
yeah yeah, freedom of speech, centureship, yaddayaddayadda. To be honest, so what? Just WHAT is this movie all about? Some kinda modern statement about modern society and the failure a modern bullshit... yaddyaddayadda. That's what they killed Socrates for, wasn't it?
You can make all the excuses in the world about this flick, but it boils down to being nothing more than a quick thrill flick. I mean SERIOUSLY, what the fuck statement is a island full of 12 -14 yr old killing one another, kill or be killed, supposed to MEAN? It's been DONE. The Long Walk, Flies, hell, Highlander, multiple others. but do any of them ever mean a hill of beans? No, not really. They all boil down to people are pigs and usually will devolve into animals when given the chance.
ok, another thing (ya, I ramble, rip me for, I don't reall ygive a shit, pompous fuxs). I have two little girls. LITTLE. They're both going to be tiny things there whole lives. If, at any time in thier entire lives some fuxer messes with them, hurts them, attaceks them, messes with them in any way, what Lector did to Gary Oldman's charactor will be considered successful plastic surgery. Ever wonder why the HELL none of the flicks ever seem to have parents the wouldn't move heaven and earth for thier kids? I'd leave a path of blood until I found mine.
blabblebabblebabble.
ok, another thing... Why is it that every tine some EVER objects, they are look at as some freak just trying to put down every elses fun? I mean shit, why have any rules at all? Hell, let's just mob rule, everyone do what they want, no standards, no ethics, no morality, do what you want, fuck who you want, hurt who you want. screw 'em all! get it?
Release the film, I don't really care. Harry say's it ain't snuff porn, so of course it's not! I REALLY don't care! believe it or not, but I had to say something since everyone's panting after Harry's opinion like pavolvian dogs. you people can't think for yourselve if you had too.
There, pissed you all off. Got follow the revulsion.
Milo -
I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS MOVIE PLEASE!!!
The movie can't be any worse than reality's society. Our world plain sucks. Politicians say one thing, lie to your face, and do something else.
People say they want to help people, but they don't.
People go to church, but when they leave they want to kill each other when leaving the parking lot.
Show the damn film!!! Damn what the politicians and hypocrits say.
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Ya know I remember hearing all the same shit about a little movie called the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. People kept telling me how they remembered seeing it and being totally horrified. How it was like nothing they had ever seen before. Blah, blah, blah...So I decided to finally curb my curiosity and I went out and rented it. Needless to say I had to watch it twice because I fell asleep. Scary? I don't think so. Maybe if it had actually been the 70's I would have been in shock, but it was incredibly tame compared to many films I've seen. Yeah there were some interesting visuals, but again, no big deal. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is pretty much the same animal. By the time most of us see this thing we will all be so overcome with the hype that we'll look around and wonder what the deal is. Anyway, back to the crawl space.
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Could A Clock Work Orange be made today? I don't think so. Why not? Because it was too well done. The moral authorities don't so much object to violence in the media as they object to violence that makes you feel something. I guess my point is that they seem to most strongly object to the violence that they should have the least objection to.
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I see harry mentioned that the director has been interviewed about this movie. well i haven't read that interview but i am going to make my own theory. this whole movie may also be about the definite problem with JHS kids in japan today. adults are really scared of them...really! when i tell most japanese that i am a junior high school teacher (in japan) they ask me if it's dangerous. why? well there have been quite a few high profile killings by JHS kids in the last couple of years. not just your normal killings but full-on serial killer stuff. they are seen as monsters by a lot of the population. but many folks argue it is the new less responsible japanese society that is creating these kids. sounds just like the movie. i actually haven't seen the movie as it was sold out the day i went to see it. cinemas are scarce here, esp. on national holidays. haven't had time to go again. will catch it on video. oh yeah harry if you are ever in japan (osaka) again let me know and i can show you round if you like.
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I've been looking for this film for sometime...
I haven't been able to find it anywhere. IRC or anywhere. Where can this film be seen? (Or better yet, where can we go, how much do we pay to see it?)
-dash101 -
Hey, if the film is released on DVD in Japan (hopefully uncut there), just get a DVD player that can be regional by-passed (there are a LOT of them out there - I might recommend the Apex-500A or 703-AD, or the Shinco 380 for a start). VERY handy when films (such as Phantasm 2 & 3) have not been released in the US - well, Phantasm 2 is out on VHS at ~$8.00, but 3 is still priced at ~$90.00! However, both have been given superb DVD treatments in the UK (Region 2). And yes, the "hacked" DVD firmware upgrades DO work.
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Echelon is a project involving US and members of the Commonwealth...
France and Germany where never part of it...
Although it takes several layer to come to a true person that could read my email, i'm going thru thousand of layers just by writing Bush and i have just to write k__l after that to be sure that my mail would be read by a true person...
in fact, i'm well aware about this project since i've read the 300 sheets of the french Assembly Report about Echelon, based on a 5 years study.... -
The similiarities you refer to are similarities between BR and the MOVIE The Running Man, which bore about 2 similiarities to the book : the main character's name was Ben and he was being hunted. That's about where it ends.
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I gotta agree with Milo - if ANYONE ever hurt, kidnapped, or did any sucjh thing to my kids, ... I can't begin to describe the hell I would unleash. Movies take the "soft" approach because most people can't handle the abandonment of "civilized" rules. It may sound "psychotic", but I'd make VC "interrogations" seem like a trip to Disneyland by comparison. Charles Bronson's DEATH WISH series had the "right" idea, but even they were tame.
So, not knowing anything more about the film that what Harry's had to say, I first ask, WHERE ARE THE PARENTS??? What the hell is going on when so many kids can suddenly disappear and nothing is seemingly done about it?
They don't call me DeathStalker for nothing ....... -
Gahh!!!.. god damn fucking thought police nazis!! (no-offence.. um.. well maybe a bit) Isn't everyone intitled to their own opinion? Whats the point in arguing over this film (please note carefully the word *film* and the context in which it is utilised). In the end, all it is is fiction. it is the visualisation of one mans nightmare, a vicareous experience for the viewer and an act of resolute catharsis for the filmmaker. Yes it's a serious film, but that doesn't mean that we have to take it seriously . "if you cut me, do i not bleed?" of course i fucking do! so do we all, in the end were all the same... and maybe that's what you're afraid of, the fact that this guy, the geezer that made this film, is just a regular joe.. he's one of us.. and if he has this darkness inside of us, then maybe we all do. Maybe that's what scaring you... ah what a load of crap.. i'm digressing into preachy mode . Where was I? oh yeah.. if you don't want to watch this film, then dont! you don't have to you know, it won't make you rich, it won't make you more attractive to the opposite sex. It's a personal choice. some people are going to like it, some people wont... WOOAH!! that's not like every other film ever is it!?!? my word, what a revalation. If it changes your life forever.. hoo-fucking-ray!! be your own person, share your opinions, but don't force them on to others... your all right in your own ways... um... and Jesus was never one for dissing films and when this one showed in heaven, believe you me he was right in line two back from me... i can't be certain on this last point (pointless.. whatever) but i think he even liked it.
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Feb 14, 2001 7:22:30 AM CST
To the fucker named The Edge who believe US are the saviour of t
by tybalt
>"fart-in-a-thunderstorm"
nice one ;) will remember it
>First, i notice that you neglect to EVEN MENTION what country you live in?
France
>MUST be a great place to live.
indeed.
>i would love to know HOW MUCH AMERICAN FINANCIAL AID your country recieves?
no one. we don't like money smelling blood and hypocrisy
interesting story about financial aids : only one country didn't vote at UN for the war in the gulf(a war launched on the base of false photos made by the US showing false iraki soldiers), a truly poor land such as Bangladesh... the day after, their us financial aid was deleted... nice, uh ?
>Second, on what place atop the short list would The United States appear for "requested asisstance" if your country was threatend with A) war B) famine, or C) natural disaster?
ahah... zero if : 1) i had no petrol
or 2) no money
or 3) nothing I, US governement couls steal or exploit
the last case of when US helped europe is to finish the war they didn't want to avoid by letting nazis invade the entire continent
>economy is in chaos because YOUR OFFICIALS will not adapt, change, and "be like the americans."
economy and world are in chaos because of your fucking capitalism that does respect nothing, and that is spreading everywhere...
>QUESTION:Who is the ONLY nation that we know of that is CANCELLING DEBTS OF DOZENS of impoverished nations?
we done it too, in fact everyone done it, since these are generally decisions of UN...
who is the only nation forcing the others to maintain an embargo in Irak that kills hundred of civilians and mostly children, and not a sole soldier or official ? US.
>Here in America we are free to do THAT too
it would be more useful to be free to think and to choose which movies you can see
>and thank God that the United States exists
Oh yes ! I forgot the "God Bless America" thing !
>Be a menace in some exploitative way, and see what color the patch is on the shoulder of the person who knocks on your door/tent flap/hole to say hello.
exactly what i said : you destroy evrything you can't understand or control.
>This Movie SHOULD be shown to school children!!! SERIOUSLY!!!
have i ever said that ? given that a children is someone under 18 for me ...
>On the edge with The Edge
i rather be in deep shit instead of being with you.
Tybalt
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...you've gone a bit off the deep end in attacking the critics of this type of movie. They say it's child porn or snuff? Well, then they must be goose-stepping Nazi's, huh? Nice...
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but Harry you blast those who don't agree with you, when they haven't said a damn thing yet???
Who's the goose-steppin' Nazi? -
The sad thing about this site is that, while the movie gossip is interesting and fun, the actual writing, reviews and thinking going on here are high school level, if that. For instance, Harry's final sentence: "See if your country let's you." That should be "lets", because "let's" indicates a contraction of "Let" and "Us", meaning what Harry is saying is
"See if your country let us you." So basically the people here are willing to spend hours upon hours staring at Planet Of The Apes movie pictures or criticizing Peter Parker's web shooters, but can't be bothered to learn the English language, or even use a spell-checker. That, to me, is what is wrong with this site. Thanks for listening.
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First of all, just to ground this a bit, what, exactly, were the odds of this getting any sort of real distribution in the U.S. anyway? Let's say "Battle Royale" is approximately as violent as, say, "Lethal Weapon 4", meaning we can set aside any violence controversy.
Come on, exactly how often does ANY independent distributor, big or small, widely distribute foreign flicks? Especially foreign action flicks? Don't even think about saying CTHD, that was produced by Sony Pictures Classics and specifically targeted to make a mint in Asia and do well in art houses over here.
We saw John Woo's Hong Kong flicks get HOW wide a distribution again? New York, L.A., Chicago, right? And then they went to video. It's really just an issue of money; they won't make as much cash as a heavily-hyped U.S. flick, and considering how dumb the theater chains behaved in the late 90s (expect your local multiplex to close soon, America has 800 more screens than it needs), anything not guaranteed to pull in serious cash is out of the running.
Second, to all the America bashers, hey, my country isn't pure, but you guys aren't clean either. All the bitching I'm reading, especially about pollution and censorship, is a little hypocritical on YOUR end. Pollution is the result of the entire industrialized world, not just the U.S. And just because you've put enviromental regulations in effect doesn't mean you're not polluting. Quite the opposite, it means a certain amount of pollution is allowed.
As for censorship...please. Yeah, we have idiot politicians. Yeah, we have a pretty nasty Puritan ethic.
On the other hand, we didn't try on the government level to limit the number of foreign films, like France did (a pretty blatantly targeted attempt to remove crappy American flicks in favor of crappy French flicks.)
Nor do we have that charming body politic that you Brits have, the BBFC. I guess the Anglican church was just as bad as the Puritans; we can get pretty much any movie we want over here, and you guys have to special-order from us. And, I understand, if you order a video nasty, you run the risk of it being seized by Customs. Isn't it weird that the U.S. has sex hang-ups, but we can get all the violence we want, and Britain refuses to let certain violent videos across its borders, yet they can get nudes in their newspapers?
I don't know what it's like in Italy, Sweden, etc. (I understand they have looser sphincters than the BBFC, but there's still some censorship, institutionalized censorship), but come on, people. Stupidity is a worldwide phenomenon, and if the world is being driven into the ground, it was a group effort. -
Harry, it's not just about "our country" "letting us" see it. The larger issue is money, and the fact that the studios are ONLY out to make it.
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culture that encourages these "extreme" artists? Like extreme Noise acts like Masonna and Merzbow, those snuff porn movies like the "guinea pig" series that Harry enjoys so much, and those bizarre game shows of theirs (Iron Chef, et al).
Battle Royale, because of its extreme subject matter, could never be anything but a cult movie. It will most likely be a direct to video movie that will recieve adequate distribution from any number of video/DVD sellers via catalogue or internet. Anyone who really feels a burning, yearning need to see this film will be able to. No need to work folks into a lather, Harry. -
...can kiss my ass. Both my Grandfathers saved your ass in WWII. Sprechen sie Deutch?
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The running man was a movie written by Piers Anthony basically fucking the shit out of Stephen King's story. Read the Long Walk. That is more along these lines.
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No one wants to touch or eat a steaming pile of shit either. Battle Royale with cheese is Japanese diarrhea with a little redundant violence and zero story. Why distribute something that is in bad taste? Shock value? Just because it can be done? I think since the Western world has become more tolerant of violence, and understands that most people who see it on television, and other medias are getting more desensitized; there is really no need to look at something as silly as this movie. Been there done that. Who hasn't seen The Seven Faces of Death? I'm sure many in Japan have not. It is redundant. You see one real-life Columbine massacre, you have seen 'em all. Basically it comes down to how fucking warped you are personally. Harry is one warped mother fucker. Maybe he can distribute it and 5 people as warped as him can wipe their asses with the film. Film cuts are waaay worse than paper cuts! Seeing this film is not necessary because it has no value morally. Yay shock value. Yay, little children blowing each other away. Bullshit. The people who made this film should be ashamed of themselves. All violence and no story makes Jack a little smarter than the shitheads who think this film is cool.
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The debate here over Battle Royale calls to mind the timidness of American movies in general. (Some brave independent works are exempted from this criticism, but they're not the movies us Americans embrace en masse.)
While filmmakers the world over are making films that are artistically pure, we Yankees prefer to allow dreck like Charlie's Angels to reign supreme at the box office.
As filmgoers we need to stop rewarding the studios for giving us big-budget crap. Crap made for millions of dollars is still crap.
But then I guess that's the message we're projecting to the rest of the world: money is everything. -
This film has been out since December in Japan, where it was in the top 10, yet not a single VCD or Hotline download exists. Come on, you pirates, rise to the challenge. Sellers can set their own price for this, kind of like those $200 LD pressings of the Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition.
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first, i've not been learning english in school, i've mostly learn it trough movies, video-games,books, and internet...
Ich habe deutsch gelernt, du Fear Of a Ted arschloch
and the fact that US "saved" the europe from the nazis has some points to be discussed :
the situation had come to this extremity because not a single european government wanted a war due to the fiasco of WW1 (again partially because US didn't wanted to be involved in this one...)....
most of all, US didn't wanted to fight nazis ( the nazis has many sympathizers in fact among american people ), and i believe i would talk better german by now if a little thing called Pearl Harbor had never happen.. and if URSS hadn't been growing at the same time... the whole involvment of US in WW2 was based on the fact that europe may have become communist after the war...
in fact, the first govermnent that was chosen in the post-war France was a communist one, but then the US subventions for the reconstruction were cut and US send destroyers in the Mediterrania.... so we had to chose an other government... this little example gives you an idea of how much US cares about democracy..... but isn't a guy named Gore or something like that got the most people's voices for your last elections ? ;)
So long, cream of the crime
Tybalt -
Feb 14, 2001 10:07:26 AM CST
"I doubt that kids...or natural born killers...would escape the
by leescoresby
Three words:
FIGHT.
FUCKING.
CLUB. -
What is it about these idiots who feel that because they object to something they must keep others from enjoying it as well? If you object to it, DON'T WATCH IT. But I should have the right to decide for myself if this movie is appropriate for me. Don't ban it. Protest all you want, but stop trying to impose your morals on me. I'm a tax-paying adult too, and I think I can figure out for myself what I can and cannot enjoy. Thank you, I'm getting off my soapbox now. :)
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Feb 14, 2001 10:21:16 AM CST
See, Harry, you're a guy with a heart and a soul. Of course this
by vorlon
Not everyone who watches a movie is a film critic, or a thinking, feeling person. Hell, most people don't think too hard about what they watch. So no matter how much heart and soul and character is put into a movie, it's entirely likely that there's always going to be people who just get the surface stuff out of it.
I'm just saying there's about 1/1000th of a grain of truth to people's worries that some kid is going to see a film like this and then get some ideas, because they have no guidance, no morals, no imagination and not much to live for.
Obviously the answer is better parenting, a rating system that actually means something, movie theatres that actually enforce age restrictions, etc. etc. But what you suggest seems to be just "well, it's art, so it deserves to be out there, and fuck 'em if they can't deal with it". Which is not helpful. -
First off the french are the fuckin mutts of europe. they have been conquered by just about every nation over there; second off, europe sucks, if your economy was half as strong as the United States', you wouldn't come crawling for help after every ass whooping you recieve. Christ... Third, child porn was legal in japan until recently, how sick is that? head out to rotten.com and take a look at fecal japan (noticed the pubes are blurred out) and then talk about how great the japanese are. The production of this film was meatn to shock people, plain and simple, they knew that it would sell like mad over here in states (mainly as a cult hit) to teenage-angst driven kids who have it tough at school and feel there is a need to emulate pure insanity... "Shut up mom! Marilyn Manson understands me! I am not going to School!"... It will turn out just like those dumb asses in Seattle that were starting their own "Fight Club" after seeing the movie... How ridiculous... Harry, your Snuff and child porn comment was a little much (even for your liberal spouts). Whomever made the comment about Harry's snuff/hentai fetish thingie, that was pretty funny.. oh well, this is the greta thing about the US, you can voice your opinion and not get drug out in the street and shot for it...
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Feb 14, 2001 10:42:40 AM CST
Jaws is just about three guys trying to kill a shark, Casablanca
by dagan
Come on guys. You cannot even discuss a movie or its "meanings" based on a capsule review. Anybody that makes films knows that it's not the concept or the story that makes it great, it's always HOW THE STORY IS TOLD that sets it apart. What's Pulp Fiction about? Raging Bull? The Godfather? Give a little synopsis on any of those great films and it doesn't sound like anything new or special - but it's the details and things that aren't included in the synopsis that make the films what they are. Harry's point was that people would object to this film sight unseen... And that's exactly what you guys are doing, which is indefensibly wrong. How do you know what's in the film, or how exactly it's handled??? See it first, then if you want to object based on real grounds, by all means do it - but dismissing something based on a concept is ludicrous - you have NO way to know what you're talking about. If we all did that, how many people would've seen Rocky(underdog proves himself)? Perfect example - you'd claw your way to your kids, right? Where are the parents in this film? Well, here's the answer - WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE!!! If you see it and it's an issue, fine, but the movie might have a perfect explanation for this. See the film. And for those talking about the "extreme" nature of the Japanese... Come on. No culture has a lock on "the extreme". The Japanese are producing movies of all kinds, just like we are. This is the country that produced The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and countless other "extreme" films. Films are made by INDIVIDUALS, not countries. It's just some guy that made this film, why must his nationality be an issue at all. I don't classify American films as "extreme" because I've seen some weird stuff come from here... I may classify a certain director that way, but never a whole country. ALL types of films are made everywhere, that's all there is to it.
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Cthulu! Why don't you drop a few hits of reality acid? We are part of the world's most xenophobic culture! Our movies suck and we (collectively) are afraid to learn about nations outside our own borders. We are blinded by our own flag-waving. Yes, our "freedom" is nice except that we don't know how to use it effectively. Capitalism has democracy built right into it, yet we are obsessed with either the lowest possible price or what The Gap is dictating us to wear. Sure, we have "choice", but the desire for independent thinking is drastically overwhelmed by the simple human desire to fit in. As a result, the government doesn't need to lift a finger to control us - our corporate culture is already doing it on their behalf. These thoughts aren't "anti-American", but they are free.
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This was written by a Canadian journalist in 1973. Looks like the ungratefulness and selective memory of the rest of the world has not changed in the last 25+ years. You bitch about us, but couldn't survive without us. Read...
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States Dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas 10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American planes?
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - - not once, but several times - and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
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Boy, Cthulhu, Europe sure does suck...NOT!!!!! You people keep saying that you've got freedom of speech, yet all the fuckin' movies are friggin' censored. That's the great thing in the Netherlands: Almost no censorship, racism is illegal and softdrugs are legal with a result that there is a much lower crime-rate. I'm not being nationalistic and i'm not being anti-american, i'm trying to say that .. I don't know what i'm trying to say!! But enough about that. As i was saying. I've seen the movie and its not snuff. The kids aren't even that young, at least sixteen(and not twelve like some people think). I have to agree with harry. It's much more than a slashermovie, it really shows the horrors of seeing your classmates die(at your own hands). I don't know if anybody already said this but fukasaku kinji made this movie because he wanted to show how terrible and not how cool violence can be, cuz' he experienced it with his own class. Didn't know that did ya? Yup, his classroom got bombed and he was one of the very few survivors. You see? He didn't make the movie to provoke, he made it to show how terrible it can be. This movie should be shown across schools everywhere. Then you can see who are sickos who like violence and who are the sane people.
Thats it folks. (and yes, i'm actually AM sixteen!) -
I'm going to be in Portland this weekend and someone mentioned a while back that this film was going to tour LA, NY, Cleveland, and Portland. Does anyone have any information at all on when it might be hitting town?? I would DIE to catch a screening of it while I'm there. It would be great to see it BEFORE it gets cut to shreds. I know that the Portland International Film Festival is going on at the moment, but I found no mention of Battle Royale in any of the listings. I also tried the official website but there is nothing in Engling regarding current tour screenings. Anyone???
By the way, for what it's worth, I'm sure this film will get released in the U.S. It's got that "Blair Witch" buzz starting to happen, and I can tell you that there is one thing that overrides all political and ethical concerns in Hollywood, and that's the hard GREEN stuff. If there is money to be made (and considering the potential youth audience that would flock to this it's a blockbuster waiting to happen) they WILL put it out over here. Of that you can be sure. -
First Off, anyone who believes that censorship is purely a result of right wing thinking, is completely incorrect. Witness China, East Germany and the USSR. The question of who is responsible for censorship is usually answered by this question: "In the name of what greater good is this (Film) being banned?". Is it for the good of the moral center of this country, or is for the good of the stability of a government?
The US has never banned any film based solely on any revolutionary themes, this country was founded on the idea of Free Speech and Expression. However, it will ban films based on its graphic content which may subvert impressionable minds. The Latter example is more subtle from a societal standpoint, however it is no less embattled.
We need to realize that there are some movies that children should not see, but we also need to realize that if given the opportunity kids will find a way seek out and absorb all material that is "forbidden" to them. It ads to the allure. People who are embittered (and justly so) by the fact that they won't get the chance to see this film on the big screen should ask themselves if they would want to see this flick if there wasn't such a buzz about it's condemnation. Afterall it's a Japanese movie that wasn't directed by Akira Kurasouwa or Beat Tikasi... IT PROBABLY SUCKS ANYWAY! -
Oops forget to tell everybody that
.....BEAT TAKESHI RULED IN THE MOVIE. He is the highlight of the flick. He definitly ROCKS, just as every movie he ever made(though 'Brother'was a disappointment). Just wanted to share that."Hi, i'm CycLoner" "Hi CycLoner" -
I saw 'BR' at the Egyptian screening, Filmnazi - and it most assuredly does NOT suck. In fact, it doth RAWK. Note to all: not sure about the rest of the world, but 'BR' has been bought by Metro Tartan for distribution in the U.K. Look for it soonly.
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Has anyone here ever been to Japan? Talk about Corporate Control over people's minds. One of the good things about this country, is that there are enough of us here who can see right through corporate shpeals.
In Japan they almost embrace it, In the few generations since the end of the war people in Japan have grown fatter and apparently have shorter attention spans (thanks to western corporations). It's like a bad joke. One of my friends studied there for a while. On this particular issue she likened it to the time Homer Simpson had "Insert Brain Here" written on the back of his head. He kept spinng around try to see what was on his head until he was actually running in circles on the floor. It was funny at first but after a while it gets disturbing. I went to college with a lot of Kids from Japan they are really cool and nice but a lot of them are STRANGE! They enjoy mindless fluff over there, just look at Pokemon, and Sailor Moon. The oddest thing about Adult Japanese entertainment is that there is a very strong undercurent of viloence and viloent sexuality, it goes beyond shitty hollywood shoot outs. It almost fringes on surreal. Take for example "Ghost in the Shell", was that a warning about technology and the Human body coexisting or was it about the violentizing and theft of sexuality of women in a Male Dominated technocratic society. I guess it is safe to say that The collective conciousness of japan has a lot of Demons, just like any country, only theirs manifests itself very uniquely . -
I'm sure he was awesome, the guy's as cool as shit, he's also the biggest star in Japan so its no suprise he was in this movie. Too bad he didn't direct it. I have a feeling if he did the movie it would be released around here.
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Of course, somebody looking at a culture from the position of the outsider will spot things in the culture that seem totally odd, out of place, and contradictary. But I'm sure the same observor has a much harder time spotting the exact same traits within his own culture, because he's involved in it and it's so "normal" to the observor that it's a much greater challenge to "step outside" yourself and see it for what it really is. Your friend who went to Japan no doubt saw many strange things about Japanese culture, saw the coporate control mentality, etc. But a Japanese person here would see the exact same things - even when we don't realize it. You mentioned Pokemon and Sailor Moon - for every "flippant" piece of entertainment that many Japanese like you can name five pieces of flippant American entertainment along the same lines. Dawson's Creek anyone??? Sure - Dawson's Creek is a show that appeals to a certain fan base, it's not something the whole country likes - well that's exactly the same as Pokemon in Japan... But we just see that it's popular so we label it as something that the entire Japanese population is into, as opposed to just a relatively small fanbase like it really is. It's just the natural way cultures look at each other - in an "all or nothing" attitude, giving broad labels to an entire people but never being able to understand the subtleties - subtleties that they so easily navigate in their own lands.
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pffff! that's not the point! what is the relationship with the US being fucked up ? and anyway, why should we be ashamed ofr being conquered ?
anyway, that shows how much you american fuckers believe they know history... France, since his formation (around 800) never got conquered until 1939....
I agree france sucks, because we were the only nation to help the americans to free themselves from the UK... THAT was truly an error !
have you ever heard any european country crying for help for 30-40 years ?
take a look at murderedpeople.com, if this is not worse... anyway, i nevr talk about child pronography or said i agreed with it !
you mean like Muma Abu Jamial or Leonard Peltier ? or Martin Luther King ? or Malcom X ? or JFK ? or Robert Kennedy ?
So long, sucker ! -
Feb 14, 2001 11:41:20 AM CST
Even Stephen King agreed to ban a story of his from ever being p
by fatal discharge
I don't think it was The Long Run but another story about school shootings. Not that self-censorship is totally the right thing to do but because it was an early story he didn't like too much and mostly because some sick yahoos were taking it into their heads to copy the stuff in real life. What's really sad is that because parents don't teach their children morality, others are not allowed to see stuff which might affect those idiots. As for the "America is the best and the rest of the world sucks" jingoistic comments, don't forget the so-called free speech (which is at risk with all this censorship) allows people to say what they want including criticizing America, burning the flag, etc. So don't tell people to shutup just because you disagree with them. That's the kind of attitude that gives America a bad name around the world despite all the accomplishments you've had.
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People... people... why argue about how much money the US of A is spending to "help" other countries ? Let's face it : there's NOT one country helping another one for charity... USA helps Europe after the war ? Yes but it also allows the USA to build a huge market... You went to free Koweit ? Yes but you mainly free the petrol ressouces... Is Europe helping other countries ? Yes we do, for the same reason : interest.. Let's not be childish here, good deeds do not exist on the international scene... so please stop trying to put labels as "we're the best" etc... And if we should be thankful of our freedom in 1945 to US soldiers (I am frankly, I am not denying that, many people died but not only Americans); maybe we can also remember that French soldiers helped America to fight against English at one point (back a long long time again before the birth of your nation)... so let's cut the crap... we're all depending of each other and you should know better... The question is was not on economical issues, the question was about being open-minded with some taboo topics... violence is one and the question is : why America has issues with violence and sex in art films (I call art film a film with a strong message) while you can buy a gun very easily ? while you can watch someone being executed ?...
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That is without a doubt, the best game show ever! BTW, Canadians blow with the exception of Tom Green and the Kids in the Hall. The French are sick people...Foie Gras, anyone? Love, Peace and Chicken Grease!
P.S. to that sixteen year old guy, didn't Beat Takeshi direct the film? -
that's the dumbest thing i ever heard ! we survived without you for 19 centuries...
anyway, i believe that with you, we may not survive one more century....
once again this old idea... cold you tell me with which money where the US build ?
THAT would be tricky !
they were insulted, as is said before because they forced us to disband our communist government, while their destroyers were waiting near our coasts...
poor little american, they lost 0,000001 % of their money, while 75 % of the human population is suffering from hunger....
The Marshall Plan was a fascistic tool to avoid commnist government in europe : either the countries had money, either they had the government they wanted...
ahah ! ever heard of airbus ?
that would sure be of greta interest compared to the amount of money it needs....
i can't see anything, even with my glasses... who is your president again ? the one you choose ? or the one wealthy guys choose ?
you didn't finish your sentence : "and who got many money to take"
some little guys in a jungle named the vietnam.... where US used chemical warfare, and assassination, forbidden by The Geneva Convention...
I know now why you guys are pissed off... US you know aren't a reality... just a nice image that you are given when you're well obeing orders ....
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You know, i
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Feb 14, 2001 12:55:27 PM CST
"Do you love your guns?! (YEAH!) God?! (YEAH!!) The Government?!
by xthecrovvx
OK, let me just say this....France sucks....deal with it...second, to the guy who was talking about Amsterdam....absolutely right...Amsterdam has one of the lowest crime rates in Europe, but then, of course, everybody's either high or just got laid, so it makes perfect sense....third, to the guy who talked about Fight Club making it past the MPAA.....that was easy....honestly look at how much violence is in Fight Club, as it pertains to the story....while the fights were reasonably graphic, it lasted only a few scenes...compare it to TOTAL violence fests like Natural Born Killers, and Fight Club is rather tame in comparison....lastly, the main comment that made me do another TB....the comment about how the MPAA, the government, etc, likes to unleash their dogs on violent/over sexual material that makes you feel something....compare a gun fest by Schwartzenegger to a gun fest by Tarantino or Oliver Stone, or a horror film like Scream to a horror film like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, or a teen angst story like any random Dawson's Creek episode to a teen angst story like Kids.....the latters have come under fire because when the controversy occurred it hits hard into reality....the others are, in the long run, superficial....once again, escapism at its best....and as long as there's lazy ass parents unwilling to leave their kid to be raised by TV, as long as there's some asshole conservative politician using Family Values as political power, as long as enough americans enjoy simplicity, shit like this will continue to happen....Revoution is my fuckin' name....
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I read this Talkback with great interest, and feel the need to contribute. You obviously hold very strong beliefs about America, which is the country in which I was born and raised. That's OK. I can respect that. I live in America, and of COURSE it is not as great of a country as it trumpets. I personally abhor nationalism as a disease. BUT, regardless of how I feel about America, I still take some exception to blatent attacks with no reasoning. It's in my nature. I am not saying that you are without good points; but so were some of the others you attacked so venomously. You call people who disagree with you "suckers" and continuously degrade America and how we have made the world such a horrible place. I have a question: what, in all of your rage and resentment, have you done to make the world any better?
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Love the Manson reference
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harry...it's been awhile since I've gotten chills while reading anything...hopefully someone will have the intestinal fortitude to bring this to the US. Our ultraviolent films are eye candy, entertainment...not usually meant to inspire societal introspection and you're probably right, there will be a lot more ballyhoo and bluster...and we really miss out on some great scenes in film due to that puritanical desire for political correctness. ugh.
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First things first fucking a review harry. As it has been pointed out you always do rise to the occasion, when it counts. (killer hannibal review by the way.)
On to this anti america crap. hey tybalt next time you feel like touting your superority anwser two questions .If the french are so superior explain the majeanue line, what was that a clever deception? or did you guys drop the ball? Also if you wanna go down the path of enviormental saftey. Why is it france is one of the few countries still engauging in nuclear testing. come on ringo anwser that one.
But this is all aside the point. And that point is when the hell is this movie being released on DVD, because it stands that it's the only way were are ever going to see it in the states.
neo-jimmbob
p/s cupid-harry with the bow, I fear for whats comming for St. Patricks day -
well, i must say i can understand that, but the fact is that, in our modern world US are ruling every aspect of thousands of people.. i've recently been reading and seeing much about, either about Echelon, war with Irak, pollution issues or US foreign policy in southern America, that's why i'm so pissed of... the point that is bothering me is that your governments do not have any.. how could i call that ? morality.
Of course, i can't say that european government are innocents as babies, but every decision of US official seems always to be determined by the amount of money or power thay can gain...
the others juste rejected all i said, mainly using only this fucking reason of the US helping europe after WW2... that was not the point
if you reread my response, you can see that is only used sucker or fucker with guys who ware agressive with me.
for the world part, i'm not saying that you've made the world an horrible place, just that you do nothing to make it better... or to correct what you've made wrong...
that's an odd question... what can i do as an individual ? i do not have a single power, only the one to choose which slip i will wear when i dress me up.... what i could say is that i'm trying to follow my personnal philosophy of life : live without harming people or making them pain (either physical or psychological) and being able to look at my life in a few years and being prouf of my behaviour..
i'm succeeding with that most of the time, with the bad effect that i'm a too nice guy, prefering not to let my voice be heard when it should be, lettig some people harm me instead of harming them...
so, from time to time, i'm entering strange periods where this attitude pisses me off and i become agressive for one or two days...
writing my opinions helps me to maintain a better balance between my emotions, my behaviour and my philosophy of life...
wow! nice psycho trip !
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i never said France was better than the rest of the world, so i've got nothing to say on this fucking Maginot Line or whatever about WW2 you americans seem always to refer to...
now, for the nuclear testing, the answer is simple : our president is the chief of the army and this fucker (he just discovered 2 years ago, what a computer mouse was !!!!) decided to start again nuclear testing... ok, that was crap...
now, about pollution, the fact is US are the last nation who won't give up chemical profucts which are damaging the ozone, while a first hole opened over chili, where you can't stay anymore for 3 hours outside without suffering 3rd degree burning, and while the secn one is currently opening over the fuckin' antarctic !!!
the main point about -
I was lucky enough to see Battle Royal, a brand new print on a big screen. That
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I want to see this movie so friggin bad. If anyone knows if there is such a way I can obtain it here in the states (buying online maybe?) Please let me know ASAP.
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...reviews like this are. I'm sick to death of the increasing geek fascination with sounding important. First Harry compares "Hannibal" to "Bride of Frankenstein," which near blasphemy IMHO. Now this review, which makes it sound as though the entire future of cinema rests on the fate of a film about 12-year-olds who are forced to kill each other. "BATTLE ROYALE is not just a fantastic film, but an important work on a precipice of the most dangerous period facing cinema in the last 40 years."????? "I
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I've commented on this movie previously, so I won't go into my opinion of the film except to say as a Beat Takeshi fan, both he and Fakusaku have done better work. As for the violence in the film, considering what the BR manga shows, it's pretty tame. If Harry really thinks this film is "brilliant," which I'm afraid I doubt, then he really needs to either A) Start looking beyond the eye candy violence and at the critical components of the movie B) Spend more time looking at Japanese films. What I more likely suspect is that Harry's championing yet another so-so geek film to endear himself with the media powers that be. Make no mistake about it, BR is a studio film in the worst sense of the word, and when it comes moneygrubbing media manipulation for the lowest common denominator, the Japanese studio system is right up there. In fact, it's probably the main reason why until very recently the Japanese movie industry was sinking like a stone. Maybe distributors won't touch this film because, as we all know, it's a non-English language feature and usually non-English language features only show in art houses, and let's face it, BR is not an art film is any sense of the word. It's a film for the multiplex crowd who wouldn't be caught dead at a serious art film. But I know that Harry's little pump for BR is certain to effect video sales, isn't it Harry? And you also know as well as the rest of us that even if BR never makes it to the theaters, Fukasaku and Kitano's next features will get a lot more attention, meaning that if you make it to the Tokyo International Film Festival in the future, you'll got a lot of attention for your "insight." Maybe I'm being a little mean here. So you like the film, but "brilliant?" This is just shameless hyperbole of the first order.
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Bueller?? Anyone?? Anyone?? I know the film is touring the U.S. to some major cities right now. Can someone please tell us where we might journey to see it?? I have heard NY, Cleveland, Portland... Come on, somewhere there must be a listing of where this film is playing on its tour.
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I often wonder why you folks living overseas feel so compelled to dictate tact and responsibility to Americans. It's as if you feel some need to project maligned proclamations about a country in which you do not live, to people who do not control the things with which you feel need to hypocritically slander. Does America have flaws? Beyond a shadow of a doubt, but only so many small steps can be made by the few to change things for the greater good. Do you sincerely feel such a strong sense of ignorance as to your own countries' flaws that you can so readily denounce that of another? I was blessed to be born in this country, I was blessed to be provided the freedom to complain at a moment's notice. Harry was blessed to be overly liberal before actual cause is presented, and he can do it in a publically published manner. He can critique the leaders, he can practice religious freedom, he has sexual freedom. Would you like to know the largest problem with America? It provides more opportunity, more choice, more more sincerity than most citizens deserve. The leadership structure is tainted by corporations, but I challenge someone to prove to me that their blessed country is not. And if you throw a communist example at me, please enjoy the opportunity to be ignored for you obviously do not understand the basic socio-political structure of said model. I would like to apologize right now to any hypocritical, self righteous individuals who feel slighted by my opportunity to make a successful and fulfilling life for myself and my family, while still having the opportunity to provide for others the things that I can do help them along the same path. And yes, I do this, so yes I can preach about it. Why not put your useless rhetoric and blathering aside for one moment and do some good for your own country? We possess ultra-conservatives who can cause a level of caution resulting in our lack of opportunity to see a brilliant. That sucks, but their OPINION and their RIGHT to have it is what makes this country tick. I'd like to remind Harry that if the liberally insensitive and immoral media wouldn't pander to the big story, to fill the public's need for the hypocricy with the blatantly unecessary images of SINCERE and ACTUAL violence, then perhaps these men wouldn't have the power they have. Perhaps if people actually excercised their nationalistic rights given by birth, children wouldn't be buying guns off of the Internet from sick bastards in a basement. Though I find it completely hilarious that holier than thou simians have the audacity to insist that our country is the only one with issues. Guess what? The violence you hear of in America is worldwide, but the American media makes knowledge of it worldwide. And the world just HAS to pay attention right? Nevermind the fact that some states in this vast country have as great a population as some other countries in Europe. Why don't you compare the economic, environmental, and moral inconsistancies of a single state with your country, ladies? Per capita you just might be surprised.
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Of course this Film would have big political ramifications, this is the same country that can have all the violent films in the world(Total Recall, for example) but has to have a special rating to show an adult film that deals with sexuality(Henry and June, for example)in some kind of realistic but not pornographic way.
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It's the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, peasant scum, the most powerful nation on earth now that we have the incomparible Q-BOMB! Just wait until we get a delivery system more advanced then our present ox-carts. Then you will all KNEEL to Zod!! "MY COUNTRY 'TIS OF THEE, SWEET LAND OF TASTY-FREEZE--" P.S. I'm seein' this movie if it comes to town. No, not THE MOUSE THAT ROARED, dillweed. . .
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I saw it at The Egyptian in Hollywood last month and I deffinetly recommend it to everyone non wussy. Not just a spectacular violent film but a great peice of satire. I was shocked, I lauged and everyone including myself gave it the great round of applause it deserves. And Beat Takeshi is god in this movie!!!!!
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To sheild myself from a barrage of angry responses I'd better start by saying that I love America and France and feel that generally the world is a better place for having both these countries in it. But being a New Zealander I wanted to put my two cents in about the nuclear testing that the French do. My point isn't that they test their bombs down in our area rather than even in their own hemisphere or even that they ignore our requests that they stop even when we also sent many young men to their deaths in WWII to help them out.
What I'd like to remind you of, Tybalt is the Rainbow Warrior incident where France sent to secret agents to NZ who then placed a bomb on the Rainbow Warrior boat (a Greenpeace vessel here to lead a protest flotilla against nuclear testing). They blew the boat up managing to kill one member of Greenpeace.
They would have got away with this had the NZ police force not captured the agents before they had a chance to flee the country.
How can you possibly criticise another countries environmental damage when your own land is guilty of such a despicable act? This was only 15 years ago so its not totally out of the question that France would not be above doing something like this again. I'm sure there have been cases where the USA has used covert operations for less than moral reasons but I have never come across a situation where they've used terroism against a peaceful organisation like Greenpeace.
Please remember this the next time you are slamming any other country. -
i totally agree with you on this point, the decision to restart nuclear testing has pissed off evryoen there, because it wa a decicion of the president alone, and nobody else wanted it...
Again, this was a disaster, decided by the president (the one before the one we have now...) who was a old guy Miterrand, who had a fascistic past and is dead by now... everyday we discover all the bad he's made , such as the rainbow warrior affair, or illegal spying of journalist and showbiz people... his son is in jail since 1 month for weapon traffic !!!
well he was truly a rotten fucker...
Of course, nuclear etsting is a fucking thing.... what i condemn about US is that they refuse to stop using products damaging the ozon, and so the whole planet...
i've got very strong doubt on this, even i can't make up my mind about an example.... remember chili ? there was a democracy there, before US helped pinochet to gain leadership thru civil war...
i've never said france was all white, but at least we have a somehow cleaner foreign policy, if clean can be use about this domain...
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well... that's how a democracy looks like... does he have the right to choose what he is able to view, too ?
i can't do anythng for the moment for my country, which one i never shown any respect.... i respect freedom, and democracry, not a country, whatever may her name be...
and they have the right to have a president, when they loose the elections ?
never said that.... but your country is the only one with all issues...
one american is killed by a gun every three minutes... in france it must be something like evry three days...
we are 60 Million, you are something like 300 Millions... that's a nice percentage !
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Hey, I was born in Japan and managed to learn fluent Japanese, Korean and (I shit you not) Welsh. So, before you jackasses who want to badmouth an English-speakin' country, at least learn the fucking lingo! For fuck's sake, man! Canada? The only people I have seen who deserve any respect are Tom Green's parents...poor people desrfve a fucking medal! Having made no poignant point whatsoever, I feel vindicated and must go, as "Limited Twat" is on the radio.
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Feb 15, 2001 2:46:49 AM CST
Read a history book The Edge (and use a damn spellchecker whn yo
by vertigo93
Just read the talkback comments about this film. So first up, let's talk about that. I'm British, so I'll probably be able to see it - but there'll be controversy here as well. As for you in the U.S. - well, you should be allowed to see it, and exercise your right not to see it if that's your wish. No movie has ever caused the end of Western civilisation. Not The Wild Ones, not Bonnie And Clyde, not Reservoir Dogs, not Natural Born Killers. We're still here and we're still the same. But now to the thing that really pissed me off - The Edge asking what language we'd be speaking if America hadn't entered WWII, implying that it would be German. Well, fuck you. Look in a history book at the way the war was going anyway. Hitler, post 1943, only made bad decisions in his campaign, so there's a fair assumption that we would have won the war with or without the help of the US. That isn't to denegrate the American contribution, which a) certainly shortened the conflict and b) undoubtedly saved lives in the long run. But don't go telling us that you stepped in and won the war for us. That's bullshit, showing that your view of history is purely from what the movies have told you. The American War Of Independence - God, we Brits were ruthless bastards weren't we (The Patriot)? Those atrocities never happened. And of course, in an emergency, we're boorish amateurs like the officers in Titanic. Again, pure fiction using real people. And then there's the Americans retrieving the Enigma machine, a turning point in WWII history (U571). Except it was the British who retrieved it. And can anyone tell me how, in Saving Private Ryan, an American squad get far into post D-Day France and don't meet a single allied nation? You weren't the only ones there for Christ's sake! Hollywood has given the U.S. the idea that it won the war without any contribution from others, that it's responsible for World History since the day The Mayflower landed. So would we be speaking German without your help? Who knows. You might as well ask if you'd be speaking Japanese wihout the help of British scientists on the Manhattan Project. So finally, The Edge, another Fuck You! to you. You have no concept of history except what your white trash Hollywood has given you, and you're the perfect stereotypical American that we Brits laugh at - rude, boorish and stupid. In terms of Europe, our contribution to Western Civilisation has been...Western Civilisation. Yours has been The Dukes Of Hazzard and MacDonalds. And now, to top it all, millions of you couldn't get off your lazy arses to stop a madman getting to the White House, who since the end of January has a) put back womens rights a good 25 years, b) appointed an Attorney General who fought to resegregate Missouri till 1984 and c) attempted to open up your last great wilderness to mineral exploration. Thanks. Thanks so much, you big mouthed, ignorant fuckwit. Maybe the problem is that you regret being late for the first two World Wars, so you're really hoping to be early for the next one. That's all - have a nice day y'all.
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Meaningless, extreme, gratuitous violence has a distinct and extremely valuable place in movies. It serves two distict purposes, catharsis and deterrent. And from what I've heard of Battle Royale, it serves those purposes extremely well. From the sound of it, it's an extremely uncomfortable movie to watch, dealing with the spectre of teenage crime in Japan in the same way as Nil by Mouth dealt with domestic violence, by making its appearance distinctly uncomfortable and horrifying. In a world where tragedies like those at Columbine and Dunblaine can happen, we all NEED to be shown how horrifying and nasty violence perpetrated on or by children can be. Anyone accusing this film of inciting or glamorising violence is guilty of a wilful misunderstanding of its intent and content. From what I hear, this movie isn't a Natural Born Killers, where sympathetically portrayed, charismatic anti-heroes are fighting against society. It doesn't need to be banned to protect society, it needs to be shown, and it's lessons need to be learned, then society can protect itself (to end the WWII debate, the Russians won it, even if America had stayed out of the Eurpoean theater, and the other European allies were defeated, by 1943, the tide on the eastern front had turned, and Stalin was happily driving the German army back. If America hadn't sent troops to Europe, we may all be speaking Russian today.)
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Totally agree with you for your first point - to an extent, screen violence needs to be sickening, because that's what real violence is. If anything, the harmful movies are your Rambo's and your Lethal Weapon's which combine gunplay and witty one liners. Still no reason to ban anything though. Imitative violence is still academically unproven, and movies have always been a scapegoat. Ban, and prosecute, a film if it contains scenes of any real prosecutable crime but for general moviemaking whether mainstream or independent, let the audience be the judge. As for the WWII debate - your point hasn't ended it, but I suppose that's something for an entirely different forum! My main point was the fact that I get really angry when Hollywood begins to dictate and revise the realities of history, at the expense of other nations. Don't forget that Memphis Belle was originally a film about WWII British Lancaster bomber pilots, which had to be changed to American bombers to get any kind of financing, because it was felt that an American audience would only go see a film about Americans. That kind of blinkered world view skews history in the long run, when people like The Edge view it as the honest truth.
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As an American living in Britain, I agree with your take on Hollywood's view of the British. However, you have fallen into a similar trap. You have believed the British media's biased and inaccurate reporting of what's going on the White House these days. Sure, Bush is no Einstein, but the exaggerations you point to are perfect examples of the ramblings of a British media far too enamoured with Bill Clinton. Physician, heal thyself! Just like Americans should explore and learn the role Brits have played in world history, you should explore and learn what's really going on in Washington today.
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Actually, I got my information not from the British media (which has not reported on Bush's first moves at all really), but from www.transitionwatch.org, a website written by and for Americans, involving various worried pressure groups. Check the site out - it makes for some inetresting reading.
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it's just that A: we're wondering what the point of this movie could be (that kids are little psychopaths? Duh, any first-grade teacher could tell you that), and B: we're wondering why Harry has chosen THIS movie to geek-jizz all over.
Kids aren't just little versions of adults. Heinlein had it right--Man is not born with an instinct towards morality and civility. He learns it over the years through the examples of parents and authority figures, and other significant influences over his life. It's not that important of a 'statement' to show the brutality that little kids would be capable of, because frankly at that stage of mental development most of them are like wolverines that can talk. Yeah, there _are_ exceptions, but I haven't seen too many (and given the extremity of the scenario in BR, I think that more of them would become feral than you might expect.) -
Ah well, at least the Russians have a language of their own and not some bastardized dialect.
I mean, we Europeans can't help that the US (who'se inhabitants often modestly refer to their nation as "America", though last time I checked the country took up only a limited amount of square miles of those two continents) are such perfect targets for ridicule, you make it so easy.
Of course both sides of the atlantic are knee deep in prejudice and not hindered by any actual historical knowledge, but I must say I always enjoy these anti-american threads, not because I agree with any side but because they always bring the best in us to the surface, just like that other waste product we produce.
So, let me help the controversy with some deep time invested insights:
US: booooooooooooo! (uh, I mean it sucks)
Europe: yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! (it rules, though I don't know what looking at the ever collapsing Euro)
Ah yes, a topic at hand, almost forgot, Battle Royal, by all means don't broadcast it in the US, they're already a bit unstable there at the moment judging from these talkbacks. As far as Bush goes, a democratic country usually gets the leadership it deserves, so best of luck to the US; anyway, nearly 50% didn't give a damn anyway, sorry I meant to say 'didn't give a fuck', and didn't vote, so who are the rest of us to care, because it involves world politics as well? Well, I think the rest of the world will survive.
Personally I'll always have a love-hate relationship with the US as indeed I have with most countries, including my own, but I must say no other nation is so entertaining, especially when it tries not to be. -
"There are movies that are bottles of nitro being transported through an unspecified Latin American jungle road journey which will certainly end in the deaths or certain mutilation of all those concerned in the transport of said materials. BATTLE ROYALE is just such a film. "
So IOW "Battle Royale is going to be a huge bomb."
8D -
How much more perverted can this film be than films like "Bad Lieutenant" or "Gummo". Part of the reason this film isn't being picked up by anybody is because the companies are probably afraid nobody will go see it, and they're using the depravity issue as the reasoning. It does have Beat, but it was made by some 70 year old guy who's spent his career making B movies (except for Tora Tora etc.). If it generates enough buzz, which it seems to be doing then some company will magically decide to try and release the film, hoping for an NC 17.
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Just for The Edge... the typo in the subject line: irony. I-r-o-n-y. Look it up sometime.
As for the swearing, I figured I'd talk to you like you seem to talk to others. No point in wasting big words.
Why did I call you arrogant? Here's why:
"And since you are ashamed to admit where you live, i would love to know HOW MUCH AMERICAN FINANCIAL AID your country recieves? Probably enough to keep your sorry, pitiful ass from not being a UNICEF commercial. Second, on what place atop the short list would The United States appear for "requested asisstance" if your country was threatend with A) war B) famine, or C) natural disaster? Right. It would be FIRST you ungrateful leech. The world economy is in chaos because YOUR OFFICIALS will not adapt, change, and "be like the americans." QUESTION:Who is the ONLY nation that we know of that is CANCELLING DEBTS OF DOZENS of impoverished nations? Do you know how much money that is, you fly on the western economy's excrement?"
This says many things. First it says "I'm American and I will deign to help lesser mortals if I feel like it. You are less human than I because of nationality". To be called a leech is a frankly disgusting thing to say to people who may be in genuine need. If America were not a superpower, you would want to rely on other people's humanity to help out. Humanity. Look that up when you look up 'irony'. Your reference to 'fly on the Western Economy's excrement' also covers the above ground.
It also says 'might is right' in its tone, aggressive to say the least.
It says the world should be American, by suggesting that seperate, rich cultures are lesser than American culture.
Finally it says "I don't know what I'm talking about". Britain was the first country to start cancelling Third World debts, at a time when the US was about to welch on the deal. We could do more, but at least we gave the example.
Don't try and intimidate me with your rantings. Don't try and shout other people down just because you're American. And most of all, don't ignore the rest of the world. We're worth more than you give credit for.
There - a reply with no bad words in it. I apologise if my talking at your level blindsided you, I obviously made a mistake in taking that tone. You might also notice the lack of words in capital letters that tends to make your posts read like a Bobcat Goldthwait routine. Far too shouty.
Yours, expecting a boorish reply,
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England and Germany are far more puritanical when it comes to violence. Several years back a PC game was released called Carmageddon. In this game you tried to complete races while intentionally running over people to get time added to you time to finish the race. In England they refused to release the game unless the developer replaced the hapless pedestrians with Zombies that spewed green blood when splattering against the force of a car and in Germany they had to replace the people with robots. I agree that there is far too much pressure from the "Moral Majority" to supress violent content here in the US, but don't whine ad-nauseum about how much worse it is here than anywhere else. If you where to argue, however, that the US is FAR more opressed sexually, I would have no choice but to agree with you.
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Must thank Solaris for his post. Hyperbole was the word I had been looking for, after reading Harry's so-called review. And thanks too to KS for posting Variety's review, because it hits the nail right on the head. But, Harry, you saw it (where? by the way?), and then you wrote about it, demanding that it be shown in the good ol' US of A ASAP, but there is very little in your review that you truly understood what this movie was about. I saw it in January, in Hong Kong, and yes, I have been to Japan many times, and I understand the culture.
So about the movie... What did you like? What didn't you like? Did you enjoy the first killing (by Kitano)? Did you enjoy the lighthouse scenes? Don't you think it was predictable? You know who would survive, right? And wasn't the instructional video crap? Did you think the ending was stupid (SPOILER! Kitano dies, but his cellphone keeps ringing, so he gets up to answer it, to bitch to his ungrateful, disrespectful daughter, then dies). Do you think it's realistic? Or was it all pure geek genius? Wait a sec, Harry doesn't answer TalkBacks... well, whatever...
This movie hasn't been banned in the USA; it's just that no one would be stupid to carry it, for a variety of reasons: the controversial subject, the subtitling. It'll be a cult video, no doubt.
What I think is silly is that there are people who think this film is orgasmically terrific because of your review, and your review was nothing more than your personal diatribe about censorship and other shit not associated with this movie. Pretty obvious this is your "cause of the month", in order to remain being that geek god to your geek followers.
Worth watching if you're into this kind of stuff, but great it ain't. Hyperbole! Hyperbole! -
I find it continually interesting that certain folks who live in Europe must obsess about the problems they perceive in a country they know nothing about. Quote statistics and look the fool, because for every statistic you regurgitate, I can find one that not only negates your original intent, but could prove it wrong. Statistics are used by politicians and all agenda-laden blowhards who have no actual insight to provide, mere twisted reports to attempt to sway a mass to their cause. That goes in any country who claims a "free" society, especially those with so powerful a media. Do Americans have the right to choose what they view? Absolutely, if it's on television I can change the channel. If it's in the megaplex I can pick the film. Is there some heinous crime that every single film isn't released in this country? Economically, that's just an impossibility. The medium of film has taken such a drastic turn towards quantity, there is no way each film of a worldwide nature can be released. And this is not relegated to the United States. I can guarantee a vast number of films are released in small quantity in THIS country, yet you do not get to see it in a theater in France. I don't hear you bitching about you not having the right to choose what you see. You act like the thing will never find any way to be released on this side of the Atlantic. Why wouldn't it? Perhaps Art Houses won't take a chance on a bloodfest and perhaps distributers won't pick it up for wide release. Why haven't distributers picked this up? Because, and knock this if you want I won't disagree, people in the US on a whole enjoy film as a mild diversion. I wish there were more who appreciated the art, but another facet of living in this free society is they have the choice to view something AS they want, when they want and what they want. Going with your blessed statistics, economic past shows that foreign language films do not frequently generate an enormous box office. And the production/distribution companies are still looking for economic gain. If they feel they will not see the return, based on hypocritical moral stances or whatever, that's their perogative. However, if Series 7 gets a distributer, the hypocritical mounting point is not that they won't "honor" a person's right to choose the violence they see, it's in merely assuming that Americans (and I will continue to refer to myself as an American, if you feel my arrogance is unwarranted, don't read my post) do not wish to see this voilence depicted by children and in a foreign language. The politicans can't keep it legally from getting a distributer. They can put pressure on it, but they cannot outright deny it. So, before you preach poetic as to the blissfully unviolent state of your blessed France...I'd like you to note this cute little article. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/World/Europe/2000-07/boveprotest190700.shtml Wow...you French sure are civilized.
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Feb 15, 2001 9:11:21 AM CST
God Bless America, The Edge, and our fabulous constitution
by fear of a ted
The greatest thing about America is that we can change overnight, on a dime, no problem. Ha-HAAAAA! Take that!
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Battle Royale just had a few showings in West Los Angeles 2-3 weeks ago as part of a series showcasing films by its director Kinji Fukasaku. It's not a matter of censorship and you know it...
Censorship is when a government comes down and says no (federal, local or state)... If studios don't carry it because it seems unprofitable that's just protecting your investment... What a joke. Just like Requiem for a Dream only showed in major cities and a few arthouses, that's the best a film like this is going to do... Just like good films like Pollack or Faithless will do, not because of censorship but because of viewer interest, there just isn't all that much especially when there is another film with the same premise basically (Series 7: The Contenders) already on the radar for Hollywood... And btw, I agree with Hyperbole, where is the actual criticism of the film, who cares if it shows a lot of kids blood and guts if it doesn't really have a point, or only has one note to its concept... -
The Edge: OK, try joke - j-o-k-e.
Fear Of A Ted: Brits can do the same as well - except obviously we turn on a penny... -
If major studio distribution (or lack thereof) of foreign films is resultant of censorship based on sex and violence how do you explain the lack of a release for any of Jean-Luc Godard's films in the U.S. over the past 20 years. His is work that is critical, controversial and important-but studios know they can't make back their buck. Not that I like it, because I love his work-but it's the way it goes. Ironically, Museums and art collectors show his film in the U.S. often as part of exhibits paid for with tax dollars for the arts-which doesn't seem to follow the idea of censorship, quite the opposite actually.
I guess certain people might use the Cannibal Holocaust-too violent to be imported argument- but then again, wasn't the director actually accused of maiming and killing South American Natives on the set of that production?
I don't know, sorry about the rant, arguing about censorship (which is an act I abhor) really lights my fire. -
i never said we weren't violent...
anyway, Jos -
that was exactly my point...
lack of foreign distribution in US is not only due to censorhip of sex or violence...
JLG isn't ditributed in the US coz' the americans wouldn't pay for seeing such a film... and why wouldn't they pay for JLG movies ? because they are something real strange, something very different, far away from they cultural standards... They just won't accept it... that is the idea i wanted to develop when i said in an other post that US doesn't accept other cultures...
now, of course we haven't every US film distributed in France, we just have the best one, or the less worse one... but we have other movies from everywhere on the earth that you can't see in US, even in video because the basic american guy wouldn't pay to see them...
to take a better example, in a month the releases for 100 movies are : 35 american movies, 30 french movies, 15 other european movies, 5 asian movies, and 15 movies from another part of the world...
how many foreign movies (on 100)do you got released in the US ?
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Is it possible that some things just need to be dealt with privately? Maybe the director made the film to flesh out his demons from the past (WWII), but does that mean we should all sit and watch him do it? This is one of those things that would have maybe worked better as a book. For some reason, our society deems "inner-cleasing" respectable on the written page, not on the screen. It does seem easier for a child to get a book, than get into a movie, but hey, it's America! I want to see this movie, but I truly can not justify my reasons.
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Umm yeah, but didn't France's President Chirac come forward and say that he thought what Bove did was admirable when he tore the McDonalds down? I just remember the translation of Chirac's speech "I don't like McDonalds either!" That's classic. And something we can't even make fun of ex-Prez Slick Willy for... I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just saying we all have chickens that'll come home to roost, the U.S. might have a few more than others but man... look at Europe, and you did point out Germany (btw I used to write international news for a living-that's why I care) Didn't their legislature fail by something like 4 votes in an attempt to prohibit the immigration of non-Caucasion Europeans from Germany a few months ago... Now the U.S. definitely has a lot of issues with racism but that's the craziest thing I've heard since I read that in the '50s Australians finally began repealing laws (based on European-specifically English law) which prohibited non-Caucasion citizens from having children. So I mean take your pick... Every culture has evil to it. Shit go to Africa, I believe it is Zimbabwe where the President Mugabe has effectively made it legal (he pardons the offenders) for Africans to kill white land-owners so the land can be appropriated by the government. It's one of those things, maybe we should take care of our business before pointing fingers... because I'm sure France has it's share of issues too...
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you've jsut made what irritate me the most about you guy : talking about a land the most of you can't even place on a map... and saying bullshit about it...
this idea of french never using deodorant is just as stupid as the image of our country in your film : every fucking american movie that has his end in France paint the same picture : a small village of the 19th century with a 2CV car in front of the hero.. see the Art Of War fro more stupid details... -
You make excuses for this particular violent offender, I think excuses are weak. You take your uneducated with your refined. If you want to segregate based upon socio-economic status, the Columbine kids were disturbed, arguably insane and I can give you 1 million sane kids for every columbine problem child. But I make no excuses...it's a wretched affiar that I hope I never have to see again in my lifetime. But why must you profess to act as if this is the typical example of everday American problems? I can't presume to be so arrogant to know your entire country through one incident and I'd expect you to attempt to respect the fact that you don't either. Our national media lionizes every American problem because they are in a position to do so, and rubbernecking French follow just as closely as Americans or you wouldn't know about it. So, are Americans really so bad? Is that why you wish to follow so closely? So you can say, "I told you so?" Our obvious stature on the world's landscape disturbs you. Don't pay attention. I was born here and am quite proud of that fact. Despite the Columbine incident, I wish to remain here. I don't ask that you like it, I don't ask that you wish to be here, I don't ask that you even care about this country. I ask that you respect the fact that there are people who do not share your point of view. If you wish to continue comparing past violence histories, don't you think every country has soemthing to atone for? I simply do not appreciate having someone act as if I cannot be proud of where I live, despite it's obvious flaws. You have never lived a day in my shoes, never known the things I have known, just as I have not with respect to your life. Don't think you can read some articles, pickup some facts on the local news wire and know so depthfully what you are talking about that you are expert enough to know social intricacies. It's that blatant arrgance that I take issue with. It's funny, when I lived in Germany, the Americans around me were polite and cordial to the host country. And the respect we expressed was met with respect. Citizens of my country are blasted for their arrogance because they do not pay enough attention to the world's landscape. Yet you prove my point that the truly arrogant are those who pay attention only to point out obvious flaws. We know our problems and some of us care enough to attempt to fix them. I don't believe the lack of distribution of a film that will not be received well in a fiscal sense is one of them. But given your necessary original insistance that it was, I will continue to take umbrage until you admit the inappropriatness of your conceit.
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is absolutely blissful to read. Every depiction of the French in American film is negative or inappropriate by your estimation. And you take personal offense based upon this. Well, every hypocritical view you put to words in your posts about all Americans not being able to point to your country on the map, about all thinking you don't use deoderant, well isn't that the exact same negative stereotype that you are so enraged about? Try having an open mind rather than telling others that they don't.
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Transition Watch is hardly fair and accurate reporting, which reinforces my point. In the same way that Americans get their understanding of Britain from Hollywood, you're getting your understanding of America from another source that distorts facts and preaches propoganda. While encouraging Americans to delve into British history, I'd also encourage you to delve into less biased reporting on American politics. Cheers!
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???? Chirac never defended Bov
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of course my picture of US isn't yours... i'm not describing life in the States but your cultural and political limitations...
the difference with the view that americans have on France is that their image is 40 years old...
now, i don't give a fuck about them not being able to pick france on a map... it piss me just off that they think that french or other eupoean people are bastards that lives in 19th century and that americans represents the modern civilization...
once again, i'm not proud of being french or european, coz i hate nationalism.... but i'm proud being part of a far more democratic system than yours...
once again, let's talk about the president you choose and then we'll see.... -
of course my picture of US isn't yours... i'm not describing life in the States but your cultural and political limitations...
the difference with the view that americans have on France is that their image is 40 years old...
now, i don't give a fuck about them not being able to pick france on a map... it piss me just off that they think that french or other eupoean people are bastards that lives in 19th century and that americans represents the modern civilization...
once again, i'm not proud of being french or european, coz i hate nationalism.... but i'm proud being part of a far more democratic system than yours...
once again, let's talk about the president you choose and then we'll see.... -
What movie is that from? it's killing me!
Don't you people realize that all countries have their ills. The governments of the US and most of Europe are on the same page? The only thing that is different is the people's nationalist attitudes. We should be happy we can visit each others countries and form these opinions anyway.
Of course us in the US may find the French to be snooty asses, but hey to them we're a bunch of cocky cowboys, and to us the germans may be a bunch of stiff dorks, but to them we're a bunch of inefficient meat heads. So what if Americans live in a shallow depraved society, Europeans has spent the greater part of the last 2000 years killing each other in numbers a million office shootings could not top. We all suck (except for people in New England, we're ok). -
This movie sounds sick and unnecessary, but I also admit to wanting to see it as soon as I finished reading the article. As for all you fucking morons, you do realize that whether you're an Asshole from Britain or an Asshole from America, or an Asshole from San Marino, you're still an asshole. Do you people actually read your posts?
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of course my picture of US isn't yours... i'm not describing life in the States but your cultural and political limitations...
the difference with the view that americans have on France is that their image is 40 years old...
now, i don't give a fuck about them not being able to pick france on a map... it piss me just off that they think that french or other eupoean people are bastards that lives in 19th century and that americans represents the modern civilization...
once again, i'm not proud of being french or european, coz i hate nationalism.... but i'm proud being part of a far more democratic system than yours...
once again, let's talk about the president you choose and then we'll see.... -
US used photos of the saudi frontier showing thousands of iraki soldier and vehicles when there was no one, to decide their allies to declare war to Saddam...
i've seen that in a well documented.. american documentary...
alongside with the revelation with the revelation that US decided to stop the war and let sadam continue his reign, while the whole country had raised against him...
not talking about the embargo... -
You are disproving your entire point every time you type. I am an American, I do not have this typical vision you feel Americans have of France and Europe. I realize the interesting balance most of Europe creates from maintaining their past culture and modern civilization. You stereotype Americans in your insistance that all Americans treat you stereotypically. I'm still confused as to what you are insinuating with our selection of president. This is the first time the system of electoral college has warranted in such a close and controversial election. What are you saying? Because your trite attempts at slander are missing their mark. I don't feel insulted when you say that.
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I was debating talking back to these post because, like the Edge said, I'm too busy living my fucking life. The French Ministry of Culture (i.e. Tybalt) got me a little fired up. I really would like to see this movie. That's why I read the review, my intention wasn't to get caught up in an international incident. However, I had to laugh at Tybalt living up to the stereotype of the Self-riteous American hating Frenchman. Yes, American's are a little hypocritical in our blaming of pop culture on causing violence. Its almost as hypicritical as blaming American pop culture for destroying cultures in other countries, as Tybalt does. Isn't the French Ministry of Culture's mandate to protect french culture, even if that means stepping on freedom of speach, and freedom of expression. After all, isn't it the citizen's of France who are freely buying up American music and watching American films, of their own free will? But, at least in France, it may not be as hypicritical, since they never pretended to protect speech. See, in America we have our first Consitutional Amendment guaranteeing the right to free speech. But apparently, in France, they would prefer to outlaw some weirdo from selling Nazi memorabilia to another weirdo on Yahoo, because, God forbid, those weirdo's might actually be the very same Enlightend Frenchmen who we are told would never do such a thing. And in France, if you outlaw such freedom of expression, then you don't have to worry about some American who might accuse you of being inflicted with the same sociopaths in your society that we supposedly have here. Tybalt, you might want to start thinking ofr yourself instead of reading off the Ministry of Culture que cards. BTW, in a country as diverse as ours, there are bound to be idiots and morons (many of which who will get elected to office). But in America, we don't pretend to be some homogoneous group of people with ONE culture as you French people apparently pretend to be. BTW, love your bragging about electing a communist government. It really adds to your credibility. Can't wait for the movie, thanks for the review Harry.
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I profess a lack of knowledge as to your government's exact structure...you have a prime minister, you have ministries overseeing affairs. But you continue to discuss your "democratic" virtues. Would you consider having a traditional unemployment rate of between 2 and 3 times that of the US a paradise?
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Tybalt, its obvious you have something against Americans, but as Ashtray says, you disprove your point every time. Why are you mocking the American electoral system? Only in Europe can a Prime Minister be elected with a "landslide" victory of 40%. America is not divided dichotomously, it is divided about what to do on the same issues. You're not very rational and your not painting a very good picture of France with your spiteful comments. Europe's economy and political stability are laughable compared to that of the US, but like most people from your continent you are seemingly blind to the facts of history.
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I, too, would like to see this film. Not because I feel it will provide some uber-cultural bearing, not because it lionizes focused violence amongst foreign preteens. No, I'd like to see it simply to understand what made Harry feel the need to start this all. And because it could be a very well-constructed film. Though based on the insights of others who are more far familiar with Kinji Fukasaku's work as a filmmaker, perhaps there are other films of his we should be excited to view. But that sequel..."Royale with Cheese" now that sounds like the road to enlightenment in film. Let's see that one...if it doesn't make it to American distribution, we should all move to France. And live next door to Tybalt. And need to borrow cups of sugar often.
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Did you all know that France actually has a legal limit of films permitted to be imported from the United States for distribution each year? I can't believe that fact escaped me. I'm not sure what the number is but it was justified by the French Legislature that put the law in effect as they were afraid of the influx cultural values presented in US film, and also were worried French production values couldn't live up to the standards and French studios could face bankruptcy. I swear I am not making this up. By the way, wasn't Andre Breton exiled from France, even after his death (he's not allowed to be buried there) because his writings were considered anti-government? Oh yeah, and even Chirac will say (has said) if not for U.S. ECONOMIC AID, GUIDANCE & BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT France would have become a Soviet Arm Communist nation for the fact that Communism was becoming popular at the polls due to increasing economic depression after WWII. And while the negativity of communism can be debated, Tybalt, I hope you know that under Soviet (Totalitarianist) Communism you wouldn't even be allowed to write to us damn Yankee Cowboy Americans.
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Man, you guys are a bunch of fucking idiots. You ramble on for page after page on topics which have nothing to do with this movie. Yet not a SINGLE person can give us any facts about where the FUCK this movie is PLAYING?!?!?! Does no one in this whole freakin place have any idea where the film is touring the U.S.?! Stop your ranting and throw us all a bone so we can see it for ourselves!! Where in the hell is this movie touring?!?! I know it's out there and I'm tired of reading all this garbage from people who haven't even seen the film. I want to see it for myself.
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Tybalt, you are kidding yourself if you think France is more democratic. Being able to see naked women on TV does not make a democracy. Being able to work and spend the money the way you want is also a form of freedom. In America we are allowed to create new businesses, take home a large portion of our earnings and buy almost any products we want (with the exception of illegal drugs and alcohol on Sundays in some parts of the country, a debate for another day). In fact, we can go buy a Japanese car if we want, no matter how unAmerican somebody from Detroit may say it is. And yes, we can own guns. And, no, kids cannot buy guns (not legally anyhow). We have always owned guns, and crime was never a large problem until we started controlling substances and replaced disciplining of our kids with therapist and Ritalin. Our economy is the most developed AND free on the planet (now that China has taken control of Hong Kong). This is why we have low unemployment and actually growth in our GDP. The economy is more complex than that, but you get the general idea. France doesn't allow foreign investment, doesn't allow bad companies to go bankrupt, doesn't allow bad employees to be fired, and makes it damn hard to create a business and finance that business. These are all parts of a free society. Yeah, you guys appreciate artits a little more than we do (as a whole) and you understand how to treat alcohol (again, for the most part) and other vices. But, by and large, your country's government doesn't appreciate free speech, free expression unless the speech is spoken in French and only benefits France's culture. We have similar problems here, but we at least fight over those problems because our government was at least founded on principles of freedom, liberty and the rights to property. And to this day, we still honor those rights pretty well. WE are not perfect and I certainly think we have many encroachments on our freedom today, but don't preach to me as if France doesn't have the very same problems.
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This whole mess, all of it, would never happen in Kentucky, land of bluegrass, bourbon and belles, oh those southern belles! If you have a problem with your country (yes, this applies to you AMERICANS, too) c'mon down to Kentucky, where shoes are optional but the bourbon is not. Take life one sip at a time. PS- we grow great weed, too!
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Great Points to all (well, maybe except Tybalt, but this message board would be less entertaining without his/her "contribution"). Particularly, thans to Ashtray and RalphMalph and The Edge. Does it trouble anyone else that American Liberty is being defended by the likes of monikers such as Ashtray, RalphMalph and Deathass? Now THAT is democracy!! And, I give props to the DaKid for pointing out the real info that matters to this board and not our off topic ramblings. Peace Out! (P.S. vote Libertarian if you really want to preserve democracy and freedom! There, I said it. I told myself I'd abstain. Oh well! Later!)
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Down with George McFly! Boo! Hiss! Vote Ellen Burstyn for AICN: Best Performance, not that hack bit-part that Crispin had. Ellen put her heart and soul into her Requiem performance. She deserves the award! And remember, vote early and vote often. Thank you.
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Feb 15, 2001 2:49:06 PM CST
I know about 6 construction workers who are flying out to Japan
by maynard
I kid you not. Also, brick layers and painter's helpers.
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Perhaps I can't comment fully on this film, not having seen it, but based on the concept, I can see no remdeeming quality in it. I would not see this picture. Perhaps it is because I'm a dad. Violence involving kids bothers me tremendously now-a-days, where it did not before. Maybe Harry, not being a dad himself, lacks this pont of view. And I know he's an uncle, but it is not the same, at least in my experience.
Harry, denigrating the opinions of others on this project is no better than the attacks the polticians make on film these days. It's elitist and censoring, the exact kind of thing you rail against. -
Fresh and opinionated, The Disinter Nation is working to amass America into an algamate of somewhat human, humans. "http://www.geocities.com/disenterprise"
Check it out! -
You guys get taxed waaaaaaaay too much, son. Why do so many Brits and whatnots come live over here in the states? Less bueracracy (sp), less taxation, more opportunity, etc. etc.
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This talkback stuff is interesting. To any newbies who are wondering what the hell is going on around here...don't worry, sometimes we actually talk about movies, too!
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Hi Harry,
I haven't seen the film yet but as a teacher at a Japanese junior high I can say that the Darwinism you mentioned in the film is built into the system. All of the kids with the lowest scores are thrown into the same class where they get little or no attention. The "smart" kids, meaning the ones who get high marks on mainly multiple choice tests are quarantined from those kids as if they're carrying a virus. It's no wonder that this film is wildly popular with teens in this country. It's not about the violence but a metaphor for a dehumanizing education system.Rant over! -
Vote Ellen Burstyn for AICN Best Performance! Down with Crispin! Down I say!
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Feb 15, 2001 7:44:21 PM CST
where's shnogul when you need him and i don't know if this tb is
by kojiro
I'd enter this debate and school those on both sides of the lake who are getting their facts wrong about the war, but fuck it...I've done that too often. Ahh to be in that the fabled land of Kentucky...where the weed grows tall and the bourbon is plentiful. MMMMM...weedalicious. Wait a minute...I'm in West Virginia(state motto "proudly in the coal companys' pockets since shit knows when"). Road trip! "What else am I gonna do? Stay here and learn?"
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Why the hell do we need to talk about how dumb/dumber George Bush is in these talkbacks? At least we aren't kow-towing to a nation over 2000 miles away (who gives a shit how many kilometers it works out to) who has no interest in us, apart from bragging rights? I ask all those who are English, do you look at a Canadian flag and say "Wonderful! With Pierre's help, we actually did something good!?!?" Canada is a pussy version of Australia, where Britons had sent their tired, their unnecessary, their...Jeremy Beadles??? Yes, that's it! And Tybalt, you turd, what is the deal with you? You are so anti American, why not just move to Baghdad from that province/state/shithole you call your own! Take your lineups, your mounties and your awful shitty Red Green Show to Saddam? I'm sure they would welcome you...cause, let's face facts, you couldn't be a pissboy in this great free nation of ours...USA! Now, I feel vindicated, and once again, the dulcid tones of "Limited Twat" are coming from my speakers.
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1.) "Goose stepping"? Come on, Harry, that is ridiculous. I am a liberal, and one of the things I hate about it is the fact that everyone who I agree with has a knee-jerk reaction to compare anyone who leans even slightly to the right to the Nazis. Come on. The Nazis slaughtered millions of men, women, and children. All that's happening here is that you _think_ that American distributors _might_ be disinclined to release this move in America. When you call that "goose stepping" you trivialize those who died under the real Nazis.
2.) As far as whether this movie is a good one, I have no way of knowing. As Roger Ebert said, "What makes a movie good is not what it is about, but how it is about what it is about." All I know is what this movie is about, and therefore I have no way of knowing whether it's any good.
3.) Tybalt, you seem rather upset that we didn't let France become Communist. Have you taken a look recently at how well the countries that did turn Communist after the war have been doing? Maybe you should be thanking us.
4.) Also, Tybalt, you respond to every criticism by blaming Mitterand. If you're country is as democratic as you claim, don't the French people deserve the blame for electing the guy?
Thank you, and good night. -
Jeez, I go to bed for 8 hours and suddenly we've got onto faked satellite photos? Can't be bothered to argue any more, made my points yesterday. And anyway, no-one seems to have answered filmnazi's question from ages ago (unless I missed it scrolling down the page) - Royale with cheese is from Pulp Fiction filmnazi. See you later, and if The Edge is reading, I hope you're less fuming today...
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Feb 16, 2001 2:01:15 AM CST
To Ashtray, DeathAss, Filmnazi, Ohmen, MisterPotatoHead & Fear O
by tybalt
wow ! three against one ;)
first of all, i would like to remain you for the third time that i don't give a fuck being french or to be part of a so-called french culture that just doesn't exist... i just consider myself more a world citizen than a french or a european, so stop bugging about tha fact that i'm prentending fench culture and living are better than the others, coz i'm not.
Ashtray, i'm not saying that all americans have a stereotypical vision of France, but that's the picture you're showing in your movies ... and that's what counts nowadays... an averag guy going to see U71 will believe his entire life that americans did stoll the enigma machine...
of course, there are smart and intelligent people among americans or other people from all over the world, but movies like U71 or Art Of War are made for the masses... you cant' expect anybody to not believe what he is seeing in a movie described as an historical film...
even I react like that sometimes... but then i have the reflex to search in a encyclopedia...
Concerning the last US elections, it is a fact that Gore got more people voices than Bush, even if the Great Electors (? litterally translated...) choose Bush instead... so your president isn't the one people choose, but the one the more wealthy or powerfull people choose... that's not what i call democracy... it remains me the political system of Ancient Greek or of the 7th century in Europe...
To Deathass, it's a thing having the right to free speech, but selling objects belonging to Nazis that killed millions of people and established a reign of fascism and racism stronger that any other one before...
Now talking about the righteousness of this isn't forbidden, the only thing forbidden is to SELL nazis objects... it has nothing to say with free speech...
Now about your First Amendment... your constitution is mainly based on the 1789 French Human Rights Constitution and the English One...
i never said that you don't have the right to free speech, you have it... but what can you (i mean the people) really DO about the orientation of your country politics and economy ? nothing...
Btw, i don't listen what the Minister Of Culture is saying, i'm not interested...
What is the thing about a communist government ? we elected one back after the war, so it was the legitimate government... now you came and said you would destroy us if we didn't change.. so we change... the question has nothing to do with communism, but with democracy, that you don't respect when it bothers you... must i remind you guys as Mc Carthy ?
To Ashtray, i'll try to explain you our political structure, but it'll be difficult with my limited english...
The main structure is :
- a president with an advisatory power, and no other none except taht he is the chief army (this gave us the nuclear testing thing :( )
- representants of the assembly, elected by the people and which are making the decisions and voting new laws...
- prime ministers and ministers that can ask the representants to vote for a new law or decision, but that can't decide anything by themself
- last, a justice system totally independant of the political power (no supreme judges ) : no one choose, they have to study to become judge, advocate, procurer or anything you want...
so you can't see that the decisions are made by the guys the people choose (every 3 years), while the general orientation of the politic are given by the ministers... the president does just have the right to declare, be nice and smile in the meetings , and to press on the red button (that right should be supressed !!!!)
filmnazi, i have troubel understanding what you are saying exactly (to good english 4 me, sorry !), but the main difference between our systems is that we have more than two sides (Democrates & Republicans) for the elections
now, about the facts that europe blind to the facts of the history... :) pffff... you guys always say : what we are making today was made even worse by europe in the last centuries... ok i agree with you... you sometimes (far from always...)have the same politics that the one we had 100 years ago..
Ashtray, if you can't see BR in the US, come on, let's come to France and we'll see it (and Avalon !) together (although the language may be a problem) :)
To Ohmen, we don't have a legal limit of american movies imported, we just have a certain amount of French movies that must be shown every month... but in video, all films may be imported..
anyway, i agree this measure is bullshit...
The whole thing about Andre Breton is bullshit... i can't remember if he's buried in France or not, but he choose to leave the country on his own, and was never forbbiden to come back or to be buried there... one more europUrban legend of you, guys..
Chirac is a rightwing fucker, i already told you that.... he's not fascistic, but he's stupid and that's worse...
now about the totalitarism, must i remind you that guys in your country where in troubel not so far ago when they wrote to much social scripts or played and directed such movies ???
To DeathAss, your whole post about compared France/US economical or think freedom show how much you don't know a single thing about France...
About the foreign investissment thing... pffff.. i worked in more foreign companies than french...
about the bad companies, that is only true for the last government remaining one...
about the bad employees being fired, that's bullshit ... they can be fired, but you should make them know them this decision two months before firing them... that's protection for people, and this is right for me... big corporate shouldn't have the right to destroy an individual life as if it was an insect...
Now about the fact that you don't like my contribution... you seems to thing that i hate you for responding me.... that's not what i feel at all... i enjoyed talked with all of you, except the one who reacted like i was attempting to kill them... (like the edge in his first post, but he's probably oen of the cleaner by now...)
MisterPotatoHead, abotu the iraki war, the facts i was telling you are history....
about the secret illness, it comes from the use of ammunitions build with uranium, and this is history too... if you don't believe me, i suggest you check the percentages of the soldiers who got it or the photos of the new borns in iraki hospital...
when bush told the army to stop, it was already far into Irak and it sure wouldn't have been any another vietnam... in fact, there wasn't many iraki soldiers at all, even in Kuwait...
To Fear Of A Ted, yes we got taxes... but we haven't any medical bills to pay... and the poorest one have many aids from our government... i find that normal that the wealthiest one give a little of their money to the poorest, so that they could live like humans and not animals...
Now, to stop being attacked about that, I'M NOT SAYING FRANCE IS BETTER THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY OK... but for me we have a far more human way of life than you US guys...
at least, our life isn't broken with a leg, due to hospital bills...
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What about us poor English stuck between America and France? I can already hear alarm bells ringing. Anyway, aren't you two mailing personal attacks and hate speech? Surely you should be kicked off? All those with me say "aye!"
By the way, as for the French all I have to mis-spell is six words -Jacques Chirac + nuclear bombs + south pacific. Hows that for moral fibre? -
please read the other posts, i'm bored with answering the same argument for the fourth time...
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anyway, even if we weren't agree on everything and not always polite, i had pleasure talking or arguing with all of you guys, even if it wasn't the place...
so let's say we forgot our differences and political opinions and talk again about what is of great interest for all of us : good movies with originality....
one last regret, not to be able to write or talk better english, but i've made what i could...
Bye, see you soon on AICN ...
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I won't join the digression into ethnocentric mudslinging... I would like, however, to return to the original subject.
Battle Royale is nothing new in the scheme of things... nor is realistic movie violence. The real question should be as to the intention of that violence.
The American director Sam Peckinpah was considered the graphic violence king of his era. Two movies stand out.. "The Wild Bunch" and the amazing "Cross of Iron". The violence in neither was there simply to sell the movie to the ghoulish. It was there to make a statement... a sort of anti-glorification film. The themes that death is ugly and war is hell were at the forefront. If you have never seen "Cross of Iron" make the effort to find the film. James Coburn plays a German officer during World War II fighting on the Russian front. It doesn't give you stereotypes of good versus evil. It gives you the raw images and emotions of flawed and very human men fighting for their lives and sanity in a war which personally extends for them just beyond the barrel of their guns and the reach of their knives. Much as "Saving Private Ryan" attempted to do (though Speilberg couldn't resist making his heroes somewhat pure.) Death is nasty no matter how it occurs. There is a sometimes a justification for killing, but the act itself is horrible no matter what the reason. Most films gloss over that fact. They glorify the heroes and villify the bad guys to the point where you have no choice but to root for the death of the villain. Rarely do films give you the reality of the grey area. The recent trends in teen violence around the world are terrible indeed, but if you look at the statistics they are primarily occuring in fairly well developed and somewhat affluent countries.... Why? Because the children don't know the reality of life and death on a daily basis. They don't understand the horrors, only their own stylized and glorified preconceptions of violence as a form of 'glamourous' statement. So that you understand, I know of what I speak. I saw my first dead body on the street before I was ten. I SAW murders and was stuck in the middle of violence my entire young life. I am American, but I grew up multi-culturally and have travelled the world. There is a saying, "None but the Warrior knows the horror of war." Perhaps that is the statement they are trying to make in this film, much as Peckinpah attempted to make with "Cross of Iron." People are upset because they are telling it through the eyes of children... but isn't that where part of our modern battlefield lies anyway? -
It is interesting that there can be so much commentary and controversy on a movie that only 3 or four people involved in this TalkBack have seen. How can anyone who hasn't seen the film state if it is "slasherporn" or an art house gem or the most important movie in 20 years! As for the national arguments, it is just ridiculous. I am American and I love my country. Personally, I think we are better than the rest of the world right now. I don't think that there is any way to prove that, however, or even disprove it. Every country has done horrible things - we destroyed the lives of thousands of Native American Indians when we invaded their lands. We have fought wars for oil and ecomoic gains. Fine - we are rotten. But no one else should think that they are better or above us - the English were the one of the most imperialistic nations of all time - 'The sun rose and set on the Queen's flag." So, to Vertigo, don't think that you are so high and mighty - ask an Irish Catholic how he/she feels about the Crown. For Tybalt, you sound like an angry high school student who has just had their eyes opened to the horror of the world, and feel that you need to put someone in the roll of villian. Why not the Americans? We do fit the bill, I admit. For me, at that age, I used the Brits (probably still do.) As for all of my American brethen - it is good to see that even when things are hard to deny, and the truth is pretty obvious, we can still see the good that we have done and rally around that.
As for Harry's review - as usual, he has horrible writing skills and a lot of trouble expressing himself clearly (mixed metaphors abound.) It sounds like this movie has potential. I don't believe any movie (that is, in the fiction genre) should be censored.
Basically this Talkback forum allows blow-hards the opportunity to hear themselves spout off (myself included), but we should at least try to stick to the movie, and see it before we create opinions about it. Thanks for reading . . . -
Given that the place of birth is random. Why do so many people put so much importance on it.
Think for a minute.
Why not speak about something that you actually have done or achieved and be thankfull that you have access to internet forums like this.
I saw a photo the other day showing a dead female new born child in the gutter of a chinese street. Everyone who passed walked round or stepped over her for hours until a lady wrapped her in a dirty cloth and placed her in a box that someone had bought out.
What about those pictures of undernorished children from parts of the world less fortunate from you internet savvy users.
Maybe if you were all born in these conditions and by a miracle had access to a computer you probably wouldn't be having these petty discusions.
I for one am interested in seeing this film as I like the work of beat tekeshi and find that he now seems to have more screen presence since the his moped accident.
Harry why not go into more detail with you previews. Maybe have a disclaimer if you are going to give away the plot.
I would like to have a detailed summary of the story plus acting, direction and overall feel. Maybe comparing it to other movies in the same genre.
Also where did you see this showing?
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Thanks for the 'e' Edge, but i'll pass - it's been a few years since I did those...
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Now, now... Why are we all bickering and bringing up old issues that have been done and we're over with, after all its JUST A MOVIE, RIGHT? Everyone has a CHOICE whether they want to see it or not, RIGHT? If it offends you, then why did YOU go SEE IT? If you haven't seen it, WHO gives you the RIGHT to criticize something you've NEVER SEEN. Why that would be like commenting on some sort of food you've never acutally eaten.
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I did enjoy all of the debate this piece has stirred. It's people like Thybalt and Ashtray (who I applaud) that make this site interestin'... but dammit it's time to move on! Get away from the Austin BBQ pit and Change the Page already, Harry! What about the Mel Gibson/Owen Wilson A-team movie that they're making? That should be top news! This story has been up for 3 days Dammit! After this, if I never see this movie I will not care!
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Amazing talk back. Look at it! All this politics and debate over film, freedom of expression etc. Really impressive. Frankly, I don't know how good the actual movie would be but...it's kind of a cool idea. Like any film like this (Natural Born Killers, Texas Chainsaw, Clockwork orange, Fight Club) I don't think they are ver as revelatory as claimed. I mean right now they are just boxes on the shelf at Blockbuster. I do not mean to insult any of them as films, i simply want to say that to all the politicians who erupt in furor over them that perhaps they don't need to put such a fine point on something that will just be on cable in a year. Frankly, the only reason they do it is because of the name recognition. Isn't that why McCarthy went after Hollywood? Some things never change. The only people who take movies like this as gospel are the dorks who say things like "it just shows how sick our society is". Right. Whatever. And sure, I think these movies can get made today. Alright, maybe not Taxi Driver (which actually DOES get more relevant by the day) but hey the studios do know violence sells.
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Ok, here's my view of the US; I just can't figure you people out. there are things I like and things I hate about your country. Everyone I know who has visited your country (I am British incidentally)has been struck by how charming and friendly the vast majority of Americans are, they also admire the tremendous diversity and wealth of the country. And yet... we just can't get over some of the things which just strike us as bizarre and alien, eg.
1) The politics. You have elected some of the most chillingly stupid and right-wing politicians ever to hold office in the "free" world. Ronald Reagan, Dan Quayle and George W. Bush are just plain terrifying and lend weight to my theory that western democracy is a sham, the elected leaders hold no real power and the decisions are made by unelected cabals.
2) Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is impossible to throw a stick in the USA without hitting some self-congratulatory monument to "liberty" or "freedom of expression". Bollocks. Anyone who seriously threatens the status quo will be murdered by the US government. Also any right-wing regime around the world can depend on the US for support as long as they crack down on those dang commies. You had segregation up until about the day before yesterday and black simpletons are often executed for murder while their white counterparts get prison sentences. Well within living memory black men were lynched in the southern states.
3) "We saved your asses in two world wars". Did you FUCK. In world war one you turned up for the last year and then went about saying that you'd won it. We were very glad of American participation (no matter how late) but it was the French (who you despise so much) who shouldered the burden for the first half of the war and their death toll was 1.5 million. After Verdun the burden fell on the British and Imperial forces (final death toll 1 million). Canada, with a fraction of your population, had a higher casualty total than the US. In WW2 you gave us material aid from the start and we were very glad of it but that hardly constitutes saving our asses. When you did join in the war in 1941 the Germans had turned their attention to the Soviet Union and it was there that the Wehrmacht was broken and the war won. America's huge industrial capacity certainly shortened the war and saved millions of lives though, and you did an excellent job on the Japanese in the Pacific.
As I say, I like Americans generally but I like you better when you don't spout crap. I dare say we Brits were just as obnoxious when we were on top. -
I haven't read all of the massive number of talk backs, so perhaps this has already been covered, but anyone who thinks the Japanese don't make films in order to make money is sorely mistaken. It's just a matter of what is acceptable in one culture as opposed to another. I'm not going to go in to all of the differences in the entertainment between our cultures that I saw when I lived there, but they are many. I just viewed the trailer for this film, and it looks to me as though it could be good. Judging by the very short trailer I don't believe it will be as gory as, say Hannibal. Second, these kids are DEFINETLY not 11, 12, or even 14. I would guess 16-20 (it's kinda hard to tell, but definetly not THAT young). Finally, it looks as though Beat Takeshi is playing himself yet again. I can't believe how popular this guy is on AICN. I personally don't think he's very talented, but maybe that's just because I've seen him on stupid TV shows. He's on TV in Japan constantly. If you want to talk about great Japanese actors, let's talk Yakusho Koji, or Takenaka Naoto.
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yea i second what my fellow brit said, i been to america too, lovely people, especially the mexicans.
But you don't half talk a shit at times :P
If america was a Cs plaeyer, it would be the bastard who camps at the back waiting for veryone else to get stuck in and then turns up to clear up whats left and then sya they are the best. They aint team players, which is interesteingly enough what america was in ww2, i mean, dropping an atomic bomb to scare the russians with no thought to the lives of the japanese? yeesh.
you can't turn up late and say "hey look at me arne't my boots shiny"
just chill nd rememeber that the rest of the world exists. And i reckon us brits were probably just as arrogant when we ruled most of the world (even though we didin't do it via threat of nuclear holocaust), either way, its no excuse -
Feb 16, 2001 1:53:19 PM CST
I love USA Olympic Basketball, or rather, people who love to hat
by fear of a ted
...I dunno, just wanted to say that...
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Calling George W. Bush right wing is an insult to any Right WQing Republican in the US. We Didn't elect "Dan Quayle" at least not for VP, and Margaret "The Iron Maiden" Thatcher was about as conservative as any Republican this country has ever seen. I've lived in England, RoosterBooster, don't you people have to stand on crates to trash your govt? I am not denying an racial ills this country has had in the past, but wasn't it England that set up virtual dictatorships over half of the non-white countries inthe world?
I love England, but your county is just as fucked as we are. Good team effort on bombing Iraq today by the way! -
Calling George W. Bush right wing is an insult to any Right WQing Republican in the US. We Didn't elect "Dan Quayle" at least not for VP, and Margaret "The Iron Maiden" Thatcher was about as conservative as any Republican this country has ever seen. I've lived in England, RoosterBooster, don't you people have to stand on crates to trash your govt? I am not denying an racial ills this country has had in the past, but wasn't it England that set up virtual dictatorships over half of the non-white countries inthe world?
I love England, but your county is just as fucked as we are. Good team effort on bombing Iraq today by the way! -
I'm an American living in the UK, and every Brit I run into, no matter what their political allegiance may be, has bought the lie that George W. Bush is an intellectual lightweight. Remember what Qui-Gon Jinn said, "The ability to speak does not make someone intelligent" (or something like that)? Well, the opposite is also true, "The lack of ability to speak does not make someone stupid." Now before you knee-jerk liberals slam me for being some right-wing Nazi, let me first say that I did not vote for the man (and yes, we were still living in the US in November). I have no vested interest in his politics, I just despise those who assume intellectual superiority over him just because they're better at forming sentences. From what I've read, the man in private shows himself to be intelligent and quick. Granted, Al Gore was more intelligent, but anyone who watched the debates saw that Bush carried himself extremely well. So to call him "chillingly stupid" is just plain ridiculous. He never built a Millenium Dome for one thing.
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Ok...to assist those of you outside of the U.S. who don't seem to be able to comprehend our politics. We are NOT a democracy. We ARE a republic. Take some time to do some research on the last election for the president of the U.S.A. You might be surprised to learn that Gore may NOT have won the popular vote contrary to what the liberal media wants you to believe. And about people calling Bush dumb. I really don't get this one. How does someone rise to the office of President of the U.S.A. if they are stupid? C'mon...I hate that treasonous bastard Clinton, but I don't think he's stupid. You don't have to have an IQ like Einsteins to be an effective leader. Bush is not the "rich mans" president. I voted for him. My wife voted for him. My father voted for him. Most people I know voted for him. Guess what we all have in common? We aren't rich. We are hard working. We take responsibility for our own actions. We don't have sex with our secretaries in our tax payer provided offices. As for the movie...I didn't read much on it. The idea of a bunch of young kids put on an island and being forced to kill each other is just plain stupid.
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Feb 16, 2001 7:39:09 PM CST
Damn. This is the longest TB thread I think I've ever seen. No
by llghtst0rmer
I used to live with a guy who loved violent art. He collected graphic novels, loved violent movies, bought only the hardest of hard-core rap and metal CDs, and he even fashioned himself a comic book creator, making (what else?) ultra-violent serial-killer comics. Now, both he and I thought "Natural Born Killers" and "A Clockwork Orange" had their respective merits as films, but I think it's fair to say that the two of us had radically different views of the two flicks. I graded them on how well they got their points across, and the values of their themes and messages; my roommate thought they were "just really fuckin' cool." And therein lies the source of my fear concerning ultra-violent films and art: Yes, there are people who will consider the value of the violence to the story or the message of the work, but it really seems to me that FAR more people with, shall I say, "less interest in a critical evaluation" of said violence will see "Battle Royal" and probably love it for what it's NOT supposed to be: a glorified, uber-cool presentation of "cool shit that your parents wouldn't want you watching." If there IS a message in this film (and I have to agree with those who have so far claimed this "message" hasn't yet been made clear or even brought up at all,) I really think that it risks the possibility of only sickening those who will understand it (since it presupposes the viewer's belief that such atrocities ARE horrifying and disturbing,) and may only be lauded and revered by the sick bastards who DON'T get the message. Basically, if the movie "works" in its desired effect, then the only people who should have a burning desire to see it and would be the only ones to say they "enjoyed" it would be the ones that you don't WANT watching this kind of thing! Let's face it... movies encourage the behaviors portrayed within them, or at the very least, encourage a certain OUTLOOK on that behavior. Every filmmaker that has ever made any kind of "anti-hero" story knows that portraying the protagonist as a hero, to whatever degree, is still the order of the day. So by making a movie of kids mercilessly slaughtering each other, even if you're saying "See, isn't this grotesque?" you're still presenting this horrifying imagery in a glorified way. Why do this? And don't automatically assume, please, that I'm some over-protective parent who knows nothing of thematic issues inherent in filmmaking. You would be wrong on both counts. I have no kids, and I actually want to be a filmmaker. But I could never in good conscience make a film where I would try to justify over-the-top violence by simply saying, "Well, if you were appalled, then good! You SHOULD have been!" Bitch, please. The people that most feel the impact of the horror in those stories are the ones who never like to even contemplate it to begin with. And THEY'RE not the people we should worry about! So why should we add more fuel to the fires of rage and fury of your average psychopath-in-waiting with a film like this? In my opinion, this kind of storytelling is, like Hamlet said, "a custom more honored in the breach than in the observance." Lightstormer out.
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People like you keep me up at night, worried if there will even be a tomorrow. >>"We are NOT a democracy. We ARE a republic.">"Take some time to do some research on the last election for the president of the U.S.A. You might be surprised to learn that Gore may NOT have won the popular vote contrary to what the liberal media wants you to believe.">"And about people calling Bush dumb. I really don't get this one. How does someone rise to the office of President of the U.S.A. if they are stupid?">"C'mon...I hate that treasonous bastard Clinton, but I don't think he's stupid.">"Bush is not the "rich mans" president. I voted for him. My wife voted for him. My father voted for him. Most people I know voted for him. Guess what we all have in common? We aren't rich.">"We are hard working. We take responsibility for our own actions. We don't have sex with our secretaries in our tax payer provided offices."<< 1) ALL presidents in the history of the country have gotten some on the side, regardless of their place on the liberal/conservative spectrum. Clinton was only fired upon via an easy target. 2) I don't doubt you and your family are hard working, responsible people, but by no means does it follow that all or even any Republicans in office have as strong a moral code as you and your family. I personally think so many members of the conservative *public* are far better people than the ones they elect and put their faith in to run the country. Sheep being led by the wolves, as it were. Apologies if I have been rude in this tirade. Nothing personal; just standing up for my side. Lightstormer out.
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"Royale with Cheese" is from PULP FICTION.... and it looks like we've got our own little Battle Royale going on right now... and The Edge is being slain (what a stupid freakin' name too, The Edge?....... "Hello, I'm The Edge, these are my friends The Rock and The Face, together we make a tag team called THE MOUNTAIN...... don't mess with THE MOUNTAIN.") Anyway, enough for now.
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the clips of Rage Against The Machine, especially Testify and Sleep Now In The Fire are a perfect synthesis of my vision of America....
i'm sure all of you will say to me that Rage are anti-american... but, hey ! what would be better than americans to judge americans ?
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um...I'm not stating that the U.S. is a Republic out of my opinion. It is a fact. Look no further than our Pledge of Allegiance: "and to the Republic for which it stands". It would be nice if we were a pure democracy, but it just would not work. The country would be ruled by the will of small pockets of the population while the vast majority of the land would be ignored. I'm also not stating that Gore may not have won the popular vote out of opinion. I'm just stating some very little known facts. What would have happened if the liberal media didn't call states before all the polls closed? What would happen if all the absentee votes were counted? I don't consider myself a republican, democrat, right wing, left wing, etc. I consider who I think will do the best job for the country. Exactly how did Bush cheat? Did he cheat by insisting that the law be followed in Florida? Or should he have allowed Gore to bend the law to his own will? Do you really want a president who cares nothing for the laws he is supposed to uphold? And as for the Florida fiasco...I lived in Florida for 15 years. That is nothing new there. The same thing happened in the last election in Palm Beach. Despite what the media wants you to believe, Palm Beach County is traditionally third party. And please..go look at the facts again. In the independent recounts being conducted in Florida Bush's margin of victory is increasing..not becoming smaller as Gore would have wanted you to believe. It is sad that what happened in Florida. Bush's presidency will be tainted for it,but don't hold that against him. He won by the rule of law, and not by trying to change the law.
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Would you have rathered we conducted an invasion of mainland Japan and in the process see millions more dead? Let's not forget that Japan was the provoker when they attacked Pearl Harbor. When you go to war you go to war to win. You don't go to war to slap your opponents hand and say "don't do that again". Japan was given time to surrender. They were warned of the raw destruction that would be unleashed upon them. They refused as their tradition pretty much states. Sucks that we had to bomb them and kill so many civilians, but that is war. If Japan didn't want that to happen then maybe they should have thought twice about conducting such a malicious and unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor.
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The question is, if these films are so violent that they need to be censored before they can release their evil demonic power upon the film going public when are the censors going to succumb to the spell and kill us all with machetes'.
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for the first time ever i think i almost entirely agree with you harry ....
you're absolutely right.
I just moved to the US from Britain so now I'm gonna miss it
Boo hoo! And what is all this shit about England vs America in the talkback?
Isn't this a movie website? you're not all that different you
know ...
in fact the only difference i see between americans and europeans is the accent (and a thing for pointy shoes).
americans are ignorant of european affairs, europeans are ignorant of american affairs ....
can the average Illinois resident tell me the name of the
governor of Utah without looking it up? can the average english guy tell me the name of the
leading political party in Sweden? No ..... we're not only ignorant about things 4,000 miles away,
we're ignorant about our next door neighbours.
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Don't worry Tybalt. You do have friends over in the United States. Jane Fonda, Rosie O'Donnel and all of the other communists would probably welcome you with shined up boots and red shirts on. Don't forget that the Vietnam War was started by France. Quit your pissing and moaning about the United States bringing down communist regimes around the world. Part of the communist doctrine was the overthrow of The United States. It was a vital national interest to bring down communism (which doesn't work anyway). Does it really matter why the UNited States entered WWII? Even your sorry ass would have a hard time arguing that the war could have been won without the help of the United States. Then again, maybe you are upset that the US was on the side of victory on that war as well. I'll get off my soapbox now. Sig hail Tybalt. Or should I say comrade?
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Harry,
How 'bout getting Rolling Thunder to atleast get a video or dvd out.
Mr. Clean -
Feb 17, 2001 10:58:43 AM CST
Battle Royale Never Seen in US? You Mean For Those Without Apex
by scala
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Let's examine the evidence. Ok, he has trouble speaking. He executes mentally-retarded black men at the drop of a hat. He is almost totally ignorant of the world outside the US borders. He is the puppet of huge corporations. He doesn't mind them fucking up the planet. Haw, these USA V. Euro/Brits talkbacks are a laugh. The funny thing is that to a non-anglophone foreigner the yank and the limey are just about identical. To a German the Bavarian and the Prussian seem very different but to us they are the same. I forgot to mention some of the things I love about the USA... ermm... oh, yeah, Napster and Katie Holmes. Must go and have a good, long think about Katie Holmes now.
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Well. It is obvious you know Bush so well. I guess you have met him many times personally to portray such an accurate representation of him, or you could just be another mindless patsy who believes anything the media throws at you. I'm guessing the later. I didn't realize you must be able to pronounce every word perfectly to be an effective leader. People from the northern U.S. often think people such as myself from the south are stupid since we sound different from them. Who is more stupid? The person who sounds or thinks different from you? Or the person who accuses another of being stupid for that reason? You obviously know him first hand to be able to say he knows nothing of the world outside of the U.S. In what way is he a puppet of huge corporations? I guess that tax break he wants to give people like me must be some devious plan to make Microsoft more money. Or he could just be like Clinton and go after corporations who make a lot of money. Again, where is your evidence he is ruining the planet? Or is this just more tree-hugging nonsense you heard on the news? Or maybe you are just sore we kicked bastards like you out of this country all those years ago...
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I have been watching with interest the minor diplomatic row that has been brewing on this 'movie' site.
Unfortunately, I am feeling a little bored and so cannot resist the temptation to pass my own comments on.
It seems to me that the criticisms of the USA, particularly from the Frenchman, are a little unfair. The US government is only doing what it can to further the interests of its own people on the world stage, as indeed I should hope it would. Even so, even I would have to confess that it is, to an extent, trying to comprise between self-interest and the desire to do good.
Those of the USA may indeed feel that their way is best or at least try to deal with situations in an American fashion. Once again, this is only natural. The fact is that we are all nationalists at heart even though we may not wave flags and shoot anyone who disagrees with us. Every nation has its own culture and its people their own patterns of thought. If you are born a Frenchman and raised in France then you cannot escape thinking like a Frenchman and approaching problems as a Frenchman would. That is how one comes to see members of other nationalities in a less favourable light when dealing with problems the way they are used to. I myself have had to check myself when thinking that as a Briton, born and raised in Britain, the British way of doing things must surely be best (btw I do realise the simplicity of such a statement as no nation is so unified in its perspective as to have all its individuals react exactly the same way). This helps explain our 'boorish' bigotry to Americans (and indeed anyone who is not British).
On an historical there are a few points to be made:
1) The USA was late for WWI and it was mainly the combination of British Imperial/French armies and the allied naval blockade that did most to defeat Germany. However, had there not been US troops in France in 1918 then Germany's last gasp offensive may well have broken through the tired armies of Briatain and France.
2) The British empire (note British, not English - the Scots, Welsh and even some Irish proved themselves quite keen to share the spoils of empire) was indeed very large and sometimes quite nasty for those on the receiving end. That said, we too tried to be nice, as the USA does now, on occasion. You Americans may note that it was also C19th Britain that first tried to convert the world to the wonders of the free market (a market freer than even America indulges in today) and that the conquest often resulted in spur of the moment attempts to stop protectionist rivals from closing off markets and resources. These days the USA doesn't have to protect its markets by conquering them mainly because it has enough economic, military and political clout to get countries to do as it wants without having to resort to invasion (Cuba, although a thorn in the political side, is hardly vital to the US economy and so is allowed to continue as it likes - although at the expense of crippling economic sanctions to itself). Such a statement does however imply that should the USA find itself in the position of having its influence in an area cut off then it may indeed resort to arms if that area was vital enough (ie had Soviet Russia invaded Kuwait then the USA may have responded by occupying Saudi Arabia - at least more so than it has done already).
Alas, I'm out of time and no doubt you are bored reading this anyway.
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After reading Harry's review of what seems to be just about the strangest idea for a movie I have heard for some time, I couldn't wait to dig into the talkback and hear what my fellow film buffs had to say about such a twisted concept. Instead, I a number of you going off on nationalistic rants, most of which are unfounded and amazingly ignorant when it comes to 20th century history.
Look folks, and I am talking to both the thickheaded brits and my fellow kneejerk americans. Look, you guys are rallying behind the politics of old men that we never even knew. It does no one any good to spout rhetoric elevating one country over another.
To the brits: there is not one country in the world that does not have its hands dirty. I mean, come on, tell me how the Opium Wars can possibly be justified. Great Britain made damn sure that China maintained a debilitating drug habit because it was just too profitable for the crown. In case anybody didn't know that, the reason Britain had Hong Kong in the first place is because they went to war with China for the right to sell their drugs there. They killed endless amounts of Chinese so that they could keep the ports open for their precious Opium. There is not a Brit in the world that can deny this dirty little piece of history.
But I have no desire to go through your dirty laundry. Europeans have always looked down the nose at the United States, maintaining an unforgiving critical attitude about all we have done, right or wrong. Well Euros, you aren't looking down, you are looking in the mirror. I am sick of this pretenious, nationalistic attitude. Taking this kind of postition is unproductive and serves only to create a devisive political environment.
Let's not repeat the mistakes of old men dead and long buried, guys. Let's not take each other to task for the political and military actions of men who never asked us how we felt about it.
Face it, not one person writing in this talkback has had anything to do with the sins of their country. What we can do is not stand under our separate flags. And from now on, let's just talk about movies, ok.
Besides, you really can't weigh one countries sins against another, we're all covered with the blood of innocents. -
>>"I'm not stating that the U.S. is a Republic out of my opinion. It is a fact. Look no further than our Pledge of Allegiance: "and to the Republic for which it stands".">"It would be nice if we were a pure democracy, but it just would not work. The country would be ruled by the will of small pockets of the population while the vast majority of the land would be ignored.">"I'm also not stating that Gore may not have won the popular vote out of opinion. I'm just stating some very little known facts.">"What would have happened if the liberal media didn't call states before all the polls closed? What would happen if all the absentee votes were counted?">"Do you really want a president who cares nothing for the laws he is supposed to uphold?">"And please..go look at the facts again. In the independent recounts being conducted in Florida Bush's margin of victory is increasing..not becoming smaller as Gore would have wanted you to believe.">"Bush's presidency will be tainted for [Florida], but don't hold that against him. He won by the rule of law, and not by trying to change the law."<< Again, more debatable points. I can only say you see it your way, I see it mine. --Lightstormer
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In a pure Democracy the people vote directly on the issues. In a Republic the people vote for people who will make the decisions for them. Pretty simple concept. It a perfect world we would live in a democracy, but that is unfortunately just not possible. I'm not saying that I like a republic over a democracy, but the law was put into place for a very good reason. Anyone who was even half way paying attention when the media outlets called Florida for Gore would have seen that Bush was in-fact leading in the votes. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I believe he had 56% of the vote at that time. What is stranger..the media calling Florida for Gore even though he was losing at that time or Jeb Bush and so many others realizing the media once again f*cked up? As for Bush's DUI..that was several decades ago I believe. You want to hang that over a persons head for the rest of their life? I suppose you have led such an immaculate and clean life? What thousands of legitimate votes were discounted? The ones that voted twice for president? The ones who didn't vote at all for president? Those are the votes Gore wanted counted in favor of himself. The margin of the undervote in Florida was less than the national average, yet I don't see you clamoring to have the rest of the nation's undervotes counted. BTW, thanks for keeping this clean. That is much appreciated. Many would like to stoop to childish name calling and the such in an attempt to "prove" their points.
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All countries have horrible things in their past they would rather not talk about. Britain has the opium wars, Cromwell in Ireland, the Amritsar massacre, the bombing of Dresden etc. The USA has modern slavery, Hiroshima, My Lai, segregation. Nationalism is for morons. The USA is an easy target because you are top dog at this moment in time. Before that it was the British, French, Romans, Greeks, Mesopatamians, whatever... I shudder to think that the country which will replace the US is China.
By the way, Pico, shouldn't you be out lynching niggras or fucking your sister or something? -
Must be easy to say such things hidden by miles of ocean and the Internet. You only prove what a cowardly fool you are with such a statement. People such as yourself are the reason racism and generaly prejudices still exist.
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A lie, plain and simple. The governor of Texas has NO power to stop an execution, only grant a 30 day stay of execution if there is evidence the person did not get a fair trial. Not even a Democrat could stop them from taking place. Everyone executed in Texas is executed according to the laws of the state, not the whim of a governor who has no power to stop an execution, much less cause one. Why? Because he couldn't answer a pop quiz on the names of foreign leaders? Give me a break. Like Clinton would've known them all. Many presidents have had to learn the intricacies of foreign policy on the job, that does not make them stupid. Again, you have believed what others have told you. Anyone who saw the second presidential debate was impressed with Bush's grasp of foreign policy. It could just as easily be said that Gore was the puppet of extremist environmentalist groups. Both men articulated the need for addressing the environment, with Bush's concern being first reducing our dependence on foreign oil. Look what's happening in the Middle East...do you like being under the thumb of these people? Yes, they are. But perhaps not for the reason you think they are. Cheers.
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Why do brits think they know everything about the US? That would be like me saying why don't you go shoot an Irishman or fuck a sheep, you arrogant fucks wouldn't like that, would you?
I have an idea lets give half our money to to the queen! wait, I don't have a queen, I'm American! Thank god for that!
You guys get your impression of Americans from watching Jerry Springer and reading your shit spewing tabloid newspapers.
By the way What's the going rate for dead baby parts these days? Also why do you guys say "isn't it" after every thing you say? It makes you sound like every english person is very unsure of themself.
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"How can you tell when a Frenchman has been in your backyard?"
...
"Your trash will be empty and your dog will be pregnant"
Heh Heh. -
here's a few factoids to blow some people's day up, be they american, british, whatever. 1) to anyone who is british and complained about americans dropping the bomb on innocent civilians in japan, PLEASE know that it was british policy to conduct night bombings of civilian targets all throughout the war (dresden, anyone? three times [maybe MORE.. there were thousands upon thousands of polish refugees that history didn't have a chance to count] as many civilians died to brit bombs on that city than hiroshima and nagasaki combined), and british leaders criticized the US for bombing factories and bridges. now to play devil's advocate against myself... i guess the US stance would be the same as the british one if WE had to endure nighttime bombings for a couple of years; i'm sure waking up and finding out your neighbors are dead would make any person, be they yank or limey, a little cranky. 2) the russians were already winning the war. slowly, but they were winning. they would have won without us. HOWEVER, we were right to secure western europe from the russians. communism doesn't work because it's unnatural. it's far too idealistic. capitalism works because it's basically the same as darwinism. it isn't pretty... it isn't always fair to the little guy. but at least the little guy has the opportunity to get off his duff and make something of himself. 3) france got us into vietnam because they threatened to leave NATO if someone didn't step in and save their precious colony. 4) the US got major help from france during the revolutionary war, BUT it was only because france was at war with england at the time. if they weren't, they certainly wouldn't have given a rodent's derriere about us. 5) americans like brits for the most part. we really do. we think you're all sophisticated and stuff, and we're sure you'd all be lots of fun to hang with at a bar. we tend to romanticize the whole pub-going experience and i don't think there's an american out there that wouldn't jump at the chance to go drinking in london. 6) the united states is a country founded by people who were kicked out of england because they were TOO UPTIGHT. they were called puritans. there's still remnants of that in our culture. violence is acceptable viewing because we americans spent hundreds of years fighting tooth, nail and bullet to carve a new country out of this wilderness (and steal it away from the mexicans and indians, sorry). someone getting a bullet to the head is less naughty to us than someone having an orgasm. silly yes... but whatcha gonna do? 7) tybalt.. thou king of cats, thou art an arsehole. bad grammar aside, you're a hypocrite. worse yet... you're a loud, ignorant hypocrite and that's the worst kind. SO IN CONCLUSION -- limeys, yanks, canucks, misc... let's stop all this fighting and find a nice dark bar somewhere and drink pints, throw darts and talk for hours about which spice girl(s) we'd shag senseless.
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I get Baby Spice. (Those pigtails... rrregggllllllle.)
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i'm sure those pigtails would make lovely handles. as for me, i'd want good ol' ginger reinstated. :)
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what? another discussion about US vs French/Brits)? my fav TB (except LOTR) and nobody warned me?... t'seems I'm a bit late and the war is over. anyways, after two days of TB we got rid of trollers and idiots, I think only real human beings still read this very very long TB... Caradoc? are you here somewhere?... First Tybalt: calm down! (tu auras d'autres occasions de rediscuter de ce sujet). Second: could we just all agre on this point: "national prides and angers are, in the final, meaningless and dangerous"?...
for the whole mankind. every country has its own examples of where it leads... and for those who doubt that pride is not necessarly bad, I would say two things: 1/ in a way, it looks like a childish trauma, the search for identity,recognition and respect. 2/ this is the original sin. where lies and begins many sufferings...
think of it: what does really initiate wars and crimes in the heart of men?...
that said these talks are useful cause I don't knox a lot of people who are not affected by this "pride disease" (and I'm not an exception). the best we can do is success our own individual lives AND understand each others, wich is quite difficult (American and French share a lot in common, imagine how tough it'will be when we'll have these kinda of discussions with Chinese!)...
I recently learned an amazing thing: the human species genetic code has so few variations that it should mean one one thing: abiut 70000 years ago, there were only 5000 to 10000 of us! in one word, whatever happened in those times (super volcano explosion say some scintists)it's like if we all came from the same village who barely avoided destruction!
we're now spread in billions of people around the globe, with the power to eradicate us all... what will we do? what do we cherish above all? personal or national pride?... We've got to much power and so few wisdom... we still act like bands of apes defending their territory, fiercly!...
to finish with my peace and love thing, I'l just add what Jean-Marc Barr recently said on french TV (he is american and french as well): he was really pessimistic about the world and thought only a new terrible war could change our minds...
I hope he's wrong. -
Let's hope it shows up at the FantAsia festival!
Wouldn't be the first time a film is being kept from release for fear of being misinterpreted or just read on the surface. This is most unfortunate for Japanese films as they often are like an onion: you peel away a layer and come up with another and so on and so forth... Heck! Even some Godzilla movies have political messages in them. (A fact I'm sure will get ridiculed here) -
Feb 18, 2001 3:06:20 PM CST
Harry, "Battle Royale" has already had its US debut, uncut...
by rocketmensch
Sold-out in less than a day. Damn.
http://www.egyptiantheatre.com/archive1999/2001/kinjifukasaku.htm -
"i don't think there's an american out there that wouldn't jump at the chance to go drinking in london. "
Really? are you serious? why?
London is a fucking dump and way too expensive ..
(and I know 'cos I just moved away from the shitpit after years of listening to twats on the tube
talking into their mobiles ... "I'm on the train ..." "I'll be home in 20 minutes .. " SO WHAT?) Don't go drinking in London mate ... not unless you're gonna take out a second mortgage first.
ANOTHER FINE PUBLIC SERVICE FROM THE RAT OF SKIP -
In a interview from his A&E Biography, King says he regrets publishing the book "Rage" (under a pen name of Richard Bachman). The story told of a high school student who took his class hostage at gunpoint. It' been a while since I've read it, but I know there was some teen on teen gun violence and killing. Evidently, a student did such a thing in the real world after reading the story and I think he may have killed himself. I have no idea what, if any, the backlash was toward King himself or of any legal action. Another King book dealing with teen death called "The Long Walk" also published under the Bachman name. It was set in an facist (and fictional, you cynics)America which was led by a man called The Major. The Long Walk was a yearly contest that started with 100 volunteers, all teenage boys. They started at the northern most point of Maine and began walking non-stop south and had to maintain a minimum speed. There were no breaks, no rests stops and no injury timeouts. They were given rations every morning and water upon request. The boys literally walked or died. The winner was the last boy to be walking, and the only one to live. If "contestants" walked below a certain speed they were warned, after 3 warnigs they were shot and killed by government troops (who were the escorts). if they passed out and couldn't here the warnings, they were shot and killed. The book seems to parallel what was mentioned in the review of Battle Royale. You get to know many of the boys, and like characters in any story, you like some and dislike others. Maybe the most disturbing part of the book were the descriptions of the spectators who lined the route cheering for the walkers. I'm not a literary critic and I don't know how this book is ranked against King's other work. I do know that the book was powerful to me because I got to know the characters and I realized that by the end of the book only one of them was going to be alive. It's worth checking out. As far as I know, it's only published as a collection under the title "The Bachman Books". The other stories are the aforementioned "Rage", "The Running Man" (the book is much darker than the movie) and "Roadwork".
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Hey...some guy told me that Battle Royale was going to be better than Rollerball...but, now that I think about it, I'm starting to see a pattern...
Is Hollywood going to start making movies about putting kids into extremely violent situations that they have little or no control over? Situations where adults tell the kids to kill each other? Is this because of the rise in school violence? Or, is it because adults are just indulging in an unexplored fantasy? I mean, lots of other living things eat their children...
--Jack M. -
i heard about this movie 2 months ago (i just entered AICN for the 1st time) , a girl from japan sometimes updates me with movies and she was very on fire about this movie.
as harry is saying this one is the next step in the film-evolution , in an eye-opening way certainly ; but on the other side there WILL be people who wont be able to see the nuances of japanese cinema and wont understand its meaning !
but i think if someone needs to see the movie then he should simply import it from jp.in germany theres also no possibility to watch movies , such as guinea-pig-series etc.
just because they are not allowed ,
so u have to order them.
and by the way , i also look forward to watch the movie for i hate all these fake "back-in-the- days" hollywood war-shit-flicks such as 'soldier james-ryan' , which are more political incorrect and gloryfying then most people will be able to understand !
but anyways :
movies are art ,
art has to be free !
they cant take us the freedom to
watch , as they cant take us the freedom to imagine !
peace from germany
ThePerfectNasum
(quote : Udo Kier @ Andy Warholes "Frankenstein 3D" - watch it !)
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I'm sorry, but they really are the rudest country on this planet. I went over there a few years ago and most of the people were stuck up cocksuckers who gave me attitude just for being American, like it was a fucking crime. As time passed, I thought maybe I overeacted, but my opinion was just renforced by Tyblat. Your view on America is totally screwed, man. The biggest problem with America now days is that we are TOO fucking busy being the world's police and not spending enough time taking care of our own problems, hence why we have out of control kids and emotionally upset adults. And your little comment about us dropping the bomb and not caring about the Japanese is crap. Think about it: Had Toho not fucking had his troops bomb Pearl Harbor, we wouldn't have bombed them in the first place. They wanted to toy with us because Toho had his head all the way up Mussolini and Hitler's asses and we showed them that we weren't to be fucked with. You Frenchie's just threw your arms up and surrendered and we had to help you motherfuckers out. Then you complain about how us Americans are savages and unintellectual pigs. Should have just let you people get taken over. Your attitudes might be a lot better.
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Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together try to love one another right now....
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i have seen it at a market screening at berlin filmfestival a few weeks ago. in no way it
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Jesus, theres a lot of chat about this film. Saw the trailer, can't wait to see it, and being in the UK, i guess i will in a couple of months. Nae luck to you fellas over the pond. I'm sure its going to be everything i've heard. But you yanks should be philosphical about this.... we're getting battle royale ok, but historically we've had a snide deal, look how long it took us to get texas chainsaw, clockwork oraange....there's still hunners of great films we cant get leaglly. Still, at least we get the controversial films which are actually intellectually and artistically any good. Your censors seem to entirely miss that point.
And christ, those of you who want battle royale, just import the dvd. Not difficult. I know all the issues it raises about free speech, etc, etc, but lets be honest, your country has been missing that and any other true forms of liberty since the 60s. The US is rapidly becoming a melting pot of self-delusion and unreality.
Know what i would love to see? Battle royale, set in dawson's creek. I would pay good cash to see them disembowel and flay each other on the big screen. -
1)USA has 4% of the population, it causes about a quater of the polution. In other words if the rest of the world was more like America, polution would increase by a factor of about seven. Does America really want the rest of the world to follow its lead?
2) Americans spend more on stip clubs than they spend on theatre, opera, ballet, jazz and classical concerts combined. They spent $8 Billion last year on different kinds of porn. -
Other than Japanabes and other clueless white suburban teens, no one in America is going to give a fucking Goddamn shit about this movie. We've already had an exploitation movie period in our history, we won't and SHOULDN'T care when another country goes through its own.
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anyone kno anything about a us release? or even a dvd, or a place where i buy the dvd? i am dying to see this movie
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Just saw Battle Royale last night and I agree with everything said in the review. It was very powerful and very, very good. Nobody in the fucking U.S.of A would ever have the balls to make such a movie, which sucks for us yanks. Track this movie down, it is worth it. There are VCDs of it you can buy from Hong Kong for damn cheap and it is definitely worth every penny.
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I went to see this movie, not sure if I'd like it (I'm more of a chickflick, 'Dirty Dancing', 'Sleepless in Seattle' type chick) but I really, really enjoyed it. I can only hope it gets a US release cos I think its a film that needs to be seen. Visually stunning, superbly acted and more surreal than I can even attempt to describe!! If you can see it - see it....it'll give your mind a work out, that's for sure!!
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I got the film on VCD a few weeks ago and I was really suprised by the film. I really enjoyed it. Hollywood lately has produced alot of garbage and it nice to see a film that made you go "holly s*)(" This film isnt for everybody and if you get a chance buy it on vcd and watch it. I fear that I will never be able to see it in an American theather. My copy was in Japaneese with english subtitles.
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Of course this film is important- you can easily see a society, on its knees, resorting to this system. It's wrong to interpret it as a film about choosing to kill someone or not to kill them though- it's not about that. But we're missing one of the main reasons this film is a masterpiece- IT KICKS ASS, BIG STYLE!!!!!! THE DEATH SCENES ARE SOOOOOOOO COOL!!!! This is an example of Japanese exteme at its best- bloody, ultra violent death scenes. And it's so kinky- manga in real life. Those girl uniforms are lethal- and of course that's part of it,part of the Japanese style of mixing kink with sex. Along with Audition this film is a prime example of the sexualisation of extreme violence- following in a long tradition.
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I heard about this movie a while back, but totally forgot about it. Harry got me interested again when he said this was one of his favorites of the year. Let me tell you, this movie is fantastic! It is not a horror movie, as I've heard it described, and though it may be satire of the Japanese schools system, it stands on its own even if you know nothing about Japanese culture. The violence was graphic, but IMO much better than the typical American action film which glorifies violence. This violence is disturbing (and not glorified in the least), especially because of how young the actors appear to be. However, it is also darkly funny. The scene in which a perky woman on videotape explains the rules of the game had me cracking up. And at heart, the movie is as much a love story as anything else. There were some corny lines, "You look so cool," etc...but what do I know? Maybe that's how 13 year old Japanese kids talk, or maybe the subtitles suck. For some reason, it didn't bug me. The biggest problem I had was keeping the actors straight, because (typical American) I only recognize people according to hair color. Also, I wondered if the ending was a bit of a cop out. People have described this film as melodramatic, so maybe I had to expect it, but for such a dark film, I really wanted the ending to be dark as well. Thanks for the recommendation Harry, and I highly recommend this film. PS. Series 7 wasn't bad. It was a fun hour and a half, but I'll remember Battle Royale a lot longer.
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Just got done watching Battle Royale, and it is probably the best movie Ive seen all year. This film needs to be seen to be believed. Harry, you gave this movie a very good review and it actually made me go out and buy the all region dvd. Mission Accomplished. And to all you TBers who say this movie sucks without even seeing it, just wait for the BR committeee to put ALL OF YOU on an island and do what the kids had to do. This movie deserves a us release uncut and unrated and a killer dvd special edition. But since the us is a country that has to be pc and ignore this type of violence, we all have to be deprived of a great movie. Battle Royale has a very good story, and uses the killings to furhter i, not just to be bloody. Major props to all the kids in the movie. great job. JUST DONT DO A SEQUEL!!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!
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Spider-Man, Star Wars, One Hour Photo, Harry Potter,and maybe even Two Towers arent as good as Battle Royale. BTW the talkbacks support free speech 1000%, and Im entitled to my own opinion.
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but then don't let me discouage you from seeing Two Towers. It's good, regardless of what other tbers say. I just hope Battle Royale 2 is even better. The sequel should cover new ground, and not just rehash the plot from the first one.
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