Cool News
Variety: Cartoon Network's JUSTICE LEAGUE Greenlit For Fall
Your one true friend El Cosmico is pleased to tell you that Variety confirmed today that Cartoon Network... oh, here's the article from Paula Bernstein, it says it all:
Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and their super-hero pals will unite to save the world on Cartoon Network.
The kids cabler has ordered 26 animated half-hour episodes of "Justice League," based on the DC Comics comic books. Warner Bros. Animation will produce the series under the direction of Bruce Timm. It looks set for a fall premiere in the net's "Toonami" action-adventure animation block.
Built-in audience
"We know from our experience of airing 'Super Friends' for years on Cartoon Network that 'Justice League' will have a vast, built-in audience hungry for an exciting new look at these classic characters," said Betty Cohen, president of Cartoon Network Worldwide.
Hanna-Barbera Studios' "Super Friends," which featured the same characters, ran from 1973-1985 on ABC and later on Cartoon Network.
The Justice League was formed in 1940 when DC Comics introduced the first group of superheroes in a comic book called "Justice Society of America," which ran until 1951. The monthly "Justice League of America" is still one of DC Comics' bestsellers.
The original link can be found at: http://www.variety.com/body.asp?HbkId=8514305&CatId=NEWS&ArticleId=1117792601&SubCat=14.
-El Cosmico
-
+ Expand All
-
Jan 24, 2001 2:57:47 PM CST
SWEET!!! Now we just have to wait for Warner to edit the show f
by horseflesh
You hear me, Warner?? You leave Timm alone and let the man work for god's sake!
-
Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman will all clearly be in, but who else do you all think will make the final cut? Aquaman & Martian Manhunter I'm sure, but who else?
-
Seems I'm answering my own question here. According to Hero Realm, the full cast will consist of: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Hawkgirl, and Martian Manhunter,
-
I'm astonished nothing has been posted about this yet... but apparently Cartoon Network (TM AOL/Time Warner) is looking for replacements for the actresses who voice the Powerpuff Girls. Go to http://www.hollywoodreporter.com for all the miserable details.
-
Jan 24, 2001 4:07:49 PM CST
All I know is they better have the Hal Jordan Green Lantern!
by blue devil
I do not want to see Kyle Raynor or Guy Gardner or John Stewart! I want Hal Jordan! Oh, and the Barry Allen Flash! No Wally West (and no retarded Speed Force!)!
-
Jan 24, 2001 4:27:17 PM CST
Finally, someone who understands EXACTLY what their audience wan
by superninja
My favorite Batman/Supes EPs were the crossover ones. Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman have a great dynamic together and I'm sure Paul Dini will give us some incredible stories. 26 episodes have been ordered. Man, I'm stoked!
-
Did you guys check out the pic of the boy they cast as a young Clark Kent? Too pretty if you ask me. The whole Smallville concept is unappealing to me anyway. I hope when Dini designs Wonder Woman, he makes her more womanly that cutsey. Also, to whoever asked about Green Lantern, I heard it's not Jordan but it's none of the previous incarnations, either. I actually like Wally West and Kyle Rayner in the current JLA run -- they're the only normal guys on the team.
-
They had an article in a recent Wizard about the show. Guess they have to be PC.
-
Early Superfriends did suck bad. No doubt. Who was that kid w/the cape & his sister?girlfriend? and their damn dog. That was a low point in the show, but, in the last season(i think) the episodes actually improved a bit. Not to Batman-TAS standards of course, but better. The first episode of that seaon even dealt w/Bruce Waynes parents getting murdered. THe rest of the season was pretty good too. I hope the new series is in the vain of JLA current comics. It has all the biggies-Bats,Superman,WW,Flash,Green lantern,Martian Manhunter and even plasticman. I hope its not dumbed down(anybody see Avengers?). If it has a healthy mix of Supes & Bats-TAS & the comic- It should rock. Ive waited a long long time for this show and cant wait. Sorry about rambling on, but,Im a life long DC fan and its just about time this show was made. War Captian Carrot!
-
Why the HELL has this goldmine character never been made into an animated series? Kids would LOVE it! The comics were fun and the characters in the Zoo Crew were all so appealing! C'mon! I mean, funny animals in Superhero outfits?! Now THAT'S a built in audience!!! Please make it come true! Please! Can you hear me Scott Shaw!? Make it so!!!!!!! Oh, yeah, the JLA cartoon is gonna kick ass. I'm gonna haveta get cable now. As if I have time to watch the shows that are on regular TV! Also heard some bad news today: apparently Warner Bros. will be closing ALL of the WB Studio Stores at the end of 2001! So much for those Cartoon Network JLA knickknacks! That SUCKS!!!!
-
Cartoon Network sucks!!!! I just read that Hollywood Reporter article!!! What kinda crap is that?! The voice actresses help those corporate jerks make one of the more popular cartoons around, popular enough to actually make an animated feature out of them and the want to pay the actresses SCALE!!!!!???? What the fuck is that!!!!!!???? Bullshit!!! Man, talent gets soooooo crapped on in this town while the executives with NO creativity whatsoever make all the ducketts!!!!! How can we get a petition started? SAVE THE POWERPUFF GIRLS!!!! Man, Warner Brothers is SO evil...
-
Hire him! This'll be really cool, I just wish I had Cartoon Network, they'll play every Bugs Bunny cartoon in a marathon sometime this year-that's cool. -Check EW mag for the day.
-
The female audience? Hawkman Hawkgirl, I guess there's no difference, isn't there one woman who does the voices for all the females in Batman? Find another female to do voices too. I'd love to witness the derring-do of Krypto the SuperPup, tho! :)
-
How can you do JLA with Aquaman, that's fucked logic. And SAVE POWERPUFF from Pandemonium Cartoon Network!!
-
Jan 24, 2001 11:39:39 PM CST
Aquaman's not in it because he contributes nothing unless they'r
by superninja
So look for him in all those water-oriented episodes. Seriously. Read the comics and see what the King of the Seas brings to the team other than being a liability or being pissed off quite a bit. He can control water, talk to sea creatures and has a groovy looking hand apparatus that's pretty much ineffective. Not even a tactical genius, and he's a king. Bah. I'm glad they didn't add him. Hawkgirl is a good choice for the other woman on the team. She isn't that well known, so they'll have a lot to play with. Same with making the Green Lantern a "new" GL.
-
Old Ollie always seems to get shafted, if you'll pardon the pun. Ah well, maybe he'll still show up in a few eps, one can only hope.
-
And that's quite a kick-ass line-up they've got to boot. I'd have loved to see Green Arrow as well, raisin' some hell, but right now I'm just happy that poor Martian Manhunter is finally getting his dues as a JLA member. I hope they make him *very* alien, maybe voiced by someone along the lines of Michael ("Mr. Freeze") Ansara. Wonder why Green Lantern's not gonna be the Kyle Rainer version we saw on that one episode of the Superman cartoon? I actually think that was one of the most outstanding episodes of the series, and it's a shame to just shuffle it out of the animated continuity. Will they be going with John Stewert (the black Green Lantern fella, not the Comedy Central yahoo) to provide a little ethnic diversity? Maybe so. With Hawkgirl and Martian Manhunter you've got some offworld diversity, but the team's still pretty white, ya know? I do hope Hawkgirl comes from the modern tradition where she's a cop from the planet Thanagar. Wonder Woman should provide the team with some fierce Amazon warrior grit, but Hawkgirl could up the ante a bit more with her fascistic alien-cop ethic (as seen in the late, lamented "Hawkworld"). Plus, if they go with the alien origin, she can tote around high-tech alien weaponry. Do it, Timm! And of course, it's a good thing that Aquaman got the axe. If they're smart, though, they might have him as a reserve member for those odd times somes that, oh, I dunno, super-terrorists take over an offshore oil rig or something. Likewise, Green Arrow fans should take comfort in the fact that he could guest-star at any time along with about anyone else who's ever been in the JLA. The core team might change membership periodically, auxillaries might be added, etc, etc. The JLA 'toon is most definitely gonna rock. Only downside I see is that Dini isn't involved, and that we all hate Warner Brothers at the moment for taking the Ginsu knife to "Return of the Joker." At least Timm's got a long history of pushing the edge with the censors, making him the best man to go toe-to-toe with 'em. And, of course, JLA isn't likely to be as dark as the "Batman" cartoon anyway. All in all, this cartoon sounds pretty sexy to me.
-
Unappealing, Superninja? Aw, why you wanna be that way? Personally I like the "Smallville" concept more than the "Young Bruce Wayne" concept they've been shopping around recently. Despite the abysmal "Superboy" series of the 80's, remembered only through a root canal-level haze of pain (and a little lust for Stacy Haiduk's Lana Lang), I think young Clark Kent has good potential for characterization. First off, he's already got a longstanding supporting cast from Smallville (his folks, Lana, Pete, and maybe even Lex?). Plus you get to see this small town kid having to come to grips with his burgeoning powers, questions of responsibility (football hero or just "hero"?), and the usual teen angst just for good measure. Unlike Wayne, Kent's got actual powers too, so they can up the action ante with some cool f/x and maybe even some low-level supervillains. Remember that tornado that shreds Smallville in "Superman for All Seasons"? Imagine an event like that staged as an f/x-heavy season finale. No villains needed, just nature at its most terrifying and a young Clark Kent pushing his powers and courage to the damn edge to save as many people as he can. I agree that the actor they cast looks a little pretty-boy, but who knows what look they'll give him for the show? Not that model-look, one can only presume. As always, potential for being a big flop, but I'm enthused. My problen with the "Young Bruce Wayne" series is that I don't think Wayne is an especially interesting character to follow around as a teen. He's like Angel with even less depth. Okay, he can struggle to keep faith in his mission while he's training, but how often can we see that before it gets tiresome or actually makes Batman's resolve seem kinda wishy-washy? How many times can he fall in love only to have to leave the girl behind to continue...HIS BIG MISSION? And you can't really introduce much in the way of supervillains, because none of that hoopla's supposed to go down until he becomes Batman. Basically, we'll get a darker version of "Young Indiana Jones", with a little "Angel" angst thrown in for good measure, and that doesn't sound real exciting to me. Somebody good was supposed to be writing it, I forget who, but I still say the adventures of a young Clark Kent have more innate potential.
-
Jan 25, 2001 6:11:54 AM CST
Oh, and if it's true the Warner Brothers stores are closing down
by dave_f
Now I won't have to see brilliant 40's and 50's Warner Brothers cartoon characters reduced to being generic icons espousing the latest culteral fads. Ooh, look, Taz is riding...a HARLEY! How in-character! Whoa, check that out, Bugs Bunny...in BAGGY HIP HOP GEAR! Damn, that rabbit is DOWN! Hey, I know those characters have been used to sell crap since their inception, but the marketing men have become so efficient at it in recent years that the crassness just kills me. I'd like to remember Bugs, Daffy, and Foghorn Leghorn for their subversive humor, not as shills for beach towels, cookie jars, and overpriced keychains. Thank God Bill Waterson loved his comic creations, Calvin and Hobbes, enough to turn down millions in merchandising revenues. Those characters, at least, will maintain their integrity. Meanwhile, landfills across the country probably gain an extra strata or two from faded, plush Garfields with suction cup feet...as forgotten as they should be. Sorry, but I'll be happy to see the Warner Brothers Stores get buried too.
-
This has been out for a long time, but go to:
http://www.brucetimm.com/dc/archive2/dc0216.jpg
This isn't the exact line-up, but clearly it gives us a clue as to how Timm imagines it.
From what I've read, it is the John Stewart GL and the Wally West Flash. Aquaman will be there in the beginning, but won't stick around.
Largento! -
To be honest, the gallery of rouges that the JLA has always had to face have been just as interesting to me as they are. Has there been any word on what classic evil doers (aside from the obvious ones) that they'll be facing?
-
I just want to say that I browsed through the galleries at www.brucetimm.com and that man is just plain awesome. He ranks up there with Alex Ross in my mind as an artist who works in the comicbook industry because he truly loves superheroes, and boy does it ever show in his work!!! The lack of enthusiasm about the history of these characters is what the industry is sorely lacking these days, at it's pretty sad that the only way we get to see these great icons of pop culture in their finest form is through a handful of dedcated artists. Thank heavens for Ross and Timm, who carry on the good work that such giants as Kirby, Ditko, Romita, Kane, and other great artists who have since passed on. I would love to see a Kirby style animated show/movie done by Bruce Timm, now that would be absolute bliss!!!
-
I guess I'm being a little harsh on the Smallville premise, but I just don't want to see another by-the-numbers teen angst show. There are already soooo many of them out there packaged as concept dramas: Buffy, Roswell, Dawson's Creek, Charmed...on and on. It would be cool if they made it really down-to-earth and not so glossy and tried to capture the feel of the midwest, but what do you think the chances of that happening are? This is the same problem I have with Ultimate Spiderman. Every teen these days has to be angsty and have a bad attitude. Look who they cast for Clark: he looks interchangable with any WB actor. As for the supporting cast, if the remain faithful to the characterization Lana is not quite the foil Lois is. Bruce Wayne had more potential to me because Bruce had a glamorous life, but chose to seclude himself because of his inner demons. Watching a young man with so much promise withdrawl from the real world to hone his mind and body to perfection to fight crime is much more interesting to me. It's more of a Legend of Kung-Fu premise than a high school drama. Bruce would be on a constant search for knowledge and training, occassionaly field testing it. Probably a more expensive show, which is why they went with Smallville. Of course, I'm pulling all of this out of me arse, and could be totally wrong.
-
...and seeing someone like Lex Luthor just bitch-slap them! Wonder Twin powers, ACTIVATE! Form of...An Idiot! Please God let them come back forone episodeso some villan can kill themoff. My only conflict about this is who should get it first? The Twins or that monkey pet/sidekick of theirs. Ahhh, finally got that out. Thanks for the vent!
-
yeah, i saw the picture of the guy. you do need one goodlooking guy to play supes (he is pretty much the perfect ideal of the human form, u know) and in his defense all those photos where for modelling shoots. everyone looks like a piece of wood inthose and they dont realy show any range of whether he can act so lets just try and stay optermistic, eh? the premise of the show is another story, though. i cant believe wb are actually going thru with another superman tv show 2 or 3 years after the last one. i actually liked lois and clark a lot(the first season, mostly) but i wont get into THAT...baff
-
Jan 25, 2001 3:09:45 PM CST
I always wondered how a Dark Avenger of the Night works in fight
by tall_boy
Sure it works for Supes cuz he IS an alien, but the Bat? I dunno, having never picked up the JLA comic it seems kinda goofy to me. I prefer to see him as Dark Avenger of the Night, and so forth....
-
If you read current issues of JLA you'd know that Batman is the only one capable of taking each of them out -- from Superman all the way down to Plastic Man. He's smarter than all of them combined and what's even better, he can be devious, if the end justifies the means. It's what makes Batman such a cool character. I remember in the World's Finest cartoon when Batman visits Metropolis, and is roughing up some local thugs in a nightclub. Superman shows up and grabs Bats, telling him to lay off. Bats casually grabs Superman's arm, and using leverage, throws him across the room, with a shocked Superman landing on and crushing a table. Superman gets up defiantly, throwing the Dark Knights rep in his face, and Batman pulls out a Kryptonite sample and basically proves that they're on equal footing, "Man of Steel" or not. Okay, time for me to get a life now!
-
The fact that Batman is out of place and unpredictable makes him the coolest character on the team. He's can hang, and yet he has not one single superpower except his exceptional mind. Of course Wonder Woman and Superman charge into battle -- they're near indestructible. Batman doesn't operate that way. Anyway...you'll see...Besides, you're missing the best part of it -- the triangle that exists between Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman. These three do not get along in current comics continuity (WW & Supes are best friends, Supes & Batman are friends, WW & Bats don't care for each other). I hope Timm retains that. It'll probably be somewhat more upbeat, but knowing Timm there will be shades of Kingdom Come there.
-
Jan 25, 2001 5:49:39 PM CST
Anybody know anything about those Bruce Timm "Dark Night Returns
by ambrose chappell
I just visited www.brucetimm.com and saw his awesome galleries. Does anybody have any information about those drawings of Batman and Robin from "Dark Night Returns"? Was there a plan for a Batman episode set around Frank Miller's story or what? Please! I want to know!
-
Jan 25, 2001 6:24:09 PM CST
I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with Corroborant on the
by village idiot
I think I remember reading a very astute point on the Talkbacks back when the idea of "Bruce Wayne" was being kicked around: That we see all this rush to do variations on all these great [comic] narratives, but they've still never managed to get the *source* material right. All the resources put into creating a story of "teen Clark Kent" (Superninja's right, it stinks of demographic hunting) should rightly be put into a feature film of Big Blue himself. I'm also afraid that a weekly teen Kent will involve a change in the character himself, a change that will take a while for the general public to shake off. Perhaps I'm a pessimist AND an idiot, but the wounds from "Lois and Clark" are just starting to heal.
-
Zeno the old,mildly-amusing talkback smart-ass?
-
I really appreciate it. I'm going to have to find a way to see that episode. Maybe I'll just wait until it's rerun on Cartoon Network. Thanks again! - A. Chappell
-
Yeah I know it's a big thing to say, but using John Stewart is STUPID! Rayner is the best of the Green Lanterns, he offers the best ideas for ring creations, he's a wonderful wet-behind-the-ears contrast to the I'm-so-cool Wally West Flash(which is the Flash they're using as they say the did on Superman, though his ID wasn't given), plus they ALREADY SET KYLE UP ON SUPERMAN IN ONE THAT SHOW'S BEST EPISODES!!! Why the hell are they screwing it up now by switching to John Stewart? For diversity? Um, Steel would have been a better way to do that! Shit he belongs on that team more than Hawkgirl! Plus, I was dying to see the Kyle Green Lantern and the Flash as they appeared on Superman, the chemistry they would have had would have been fantastic! The only thing previous Green Lanterns had over Kyle was more classic villains, and they solved that on the Superman animated show by using a Silver Age bad guy along with giving the Hal Jordan origin to Kyle. I'm sorry, I've been eagerly awaiting this show for a long time, but when I first read they were using John Stewart my enthusiasm died. I'd hoped it was bogus, but if they're still talking about Hawkgirl then John Stewart will probably be on the show too. It's a dumb move. They're wrong not to use Kyle, he's the perfect audience POV character, a young artist new to being a Super hero. If they plan to turn John Stewart into that, again I ask why use him when you have Kyle? Since the show's only in script form right now, I hope they change it back to how it SHOULD be before we're stuck with a C-grade GL. At least Wonder Woman made the cut, although I'm waiting to hear she'll only be in two episodes.
-
Sleazy_G, I think you're wrong to dismiss the "better ring creations" defense of Kyle. I assume you just don't like him. However, did you see the GL Superman animated episode? If so then you should know that Kyle was given the superior original GL costume, not the new lame one with that stupid visor. Also, as I said in my earlier post, they used the superior Silver Age nemesis Sinestro instead of some crap job like Dr. Polaris. However they utilized Kyle's inexperience and his simple comic-book saavy. I loved it when he tried asking Sinestro "Hey wait, don't you want to banter before you kill me? You know, to show your innate superiority?" Sinestro: "No." But your defense of Stewart doesn't hold water. Because he's bland they can do more with him? Bullshit! They can do TONS more with Kyle. Don't forget that they perfectly characterized the Wally West Flash as a egotistical jerk. The chemistry those two characters would have is simply too good to be left out. John Stewart would simply be a repeat of Superman's optimism. Also, with Kyle as GL characters like John Stewart and Hal Jordan could actually appear as former Green Lanterns, while Stewart contradicts what was done on Superman(which is just shameful since that was such a damn great episode). I'm sure Hal fans will be upset if Kyle's used, but same's true of Stewart. At least this way they could ALL appear. As for not liking Steel, unless you mean the Shaq movie, I must disagree. He could bring technological expertise to the team. No one else has that except possibly for Batman, but then he's more a detective than an techie or engineer(don't forget Oracle is missing from this line-up too). Granted Steel's personality isn't as strong, but if you can suggest "fixing" John Stewart's character then you can't be against "fixing" Steel. No, Stewart is a BAD BAD choice, they should use Kyle and that's that!
-
hes the most interesting robin, in my opinion, well besides the one that got whacked by joker, that guy had balls. If any of you saw the animated series where it shows nightwings "lair" (his apartment)it was pretty cool that he had a samurai look to it not to mention a really cool motorcycle. What kills me is that the WB is giving us all these crap cartoons when they should just stick to those cool super hero ones..not crappy ones like STATIC,that;s just gay. But instead they give us 10+ hours of pokemon. Atleast they have that new x-men one. Fox used to be good too but thats a whole different story
-
Jan 25, 2001 10:35:18 PM CST
Bruce Timm - Please Please bring The Huntress to JLA's table onc
by jiggly_bot
Jeez man there are soo many plot twists to do with the DC universe here, and Bruce is perfect for this, not to mention, Cartoon Network can (ahem) do a B E T T E R job at promoting his work then wb. Bruce go for gold man. I loved the work you did on BROTJ, and your talent is never ending. Go back to your creativity, forget that build a character to sell a toy sh*t... and please mock the wonder twins, i really hated their creation!
-
was ist das? this is the first i've heard of wb doing a "teen" superman show. please tell me where i can find more info, especially the pics everyone keeps referencing. thank you kindly.
-
I hear what you mean about missing the toons, Sleazy_G. I have barely the time to watch ANY TV anymore. I've become a master at setting VCRs to record without me. Now I just have a pile of tapes I haven't watched. Unfortunately Cartoon Network likes to screw around with its schedule a lot, so I missed a lot of the Superman shows they aired a last month. I saw them on the WB originally, but I have a bad reception. I recomend seeing the Green Lantern episode, "In Brightest Day," it was simpy excellent, the best of the JLA cross overs. Their Flash was good too, but the episode itself was only okay. Also I agree with you on Oracle, she should be on the show. I guess they don't know how to explain the wheel chair and still please the sensors. I don't care if they contradicted Batman Beyond though, not after what they did to the Tim Drake Robin.
-
They do have great chemistry! However, I do see the need to make the JLA something other than a bunch of white people. And Steel just doesn't cut it, he's boring. Hawkgirl and Green Lantern give them to get really creative and do some character driven EPS. Funny think is with Rayner, I never noticed how his creations reflect his comic book sensibilities -- sometimes I'm so oblivious. And COMEDIAN!!! Two thumbs up on your last routine! Batman and Wonder Woman should get together!
-
Go to http://www.darkhorizons.com for info on Smallville and the lead actor's pic.
-
In the Batman Beyond universe Barbara (Commissioner) Gordon isn't stuck in a wheelchair. The problem with adding Batman would be: what's he going to do in a cartoon show that tries to be comprehensible for the kiddies as well as the adults? Master tactician/schemer won't play too well. It doesn't strike me that Kyle Rayner's Rogue's Gallery will be relevant one way or another, since they'll probably face off against JLA villains. And Aquaman had plenty to do in his Superman TAS episode (including some hints of romantic attraction from Lois Lane). Morrison and Waid have given him plenty to do in the comics - it just takes a little more work on the writers' part to give him something to do without fish and the ocean around. Has anyone seen that Cartoon Network blurb with Aquaman and Wonder Woman tied up over a lava pit by the Legion of Doom, AM says his powers are useless, and Wonder Woman rolls her eyes?
-
Talia? Talia's the one who set the JLA up and gave her Beloved's protocols to her father. Blech. I'll probably never convince you otherwise, but from a characterization standpoint, Batman and Wonder Woman could have a wonderful dynamic. A sort of, hahah, Moonlighting kind of romance. Talia and Selina have had their day, and it is O-V-E-R. Selina at this point is an overrated bimbo. Batman is already a dark character and could use a contrast. Barbara was good at that for awhile. So was Kyle when she went good. At least with Wonder Woman it would be something fresh and new for a few years and they could play on their opposing backgrounds. Wonder Woman and Aquaman together just bore me to tears. In fact, I see the seeds planted for something going down between the two of them because of all the JLA members, it's her trust Batman will have to win back before the others trust him again completely. So there. :P
-
Jan 26, 2001 2:39:49 PM CST
Gislef, that's a good point about Oracle and Gordon from BB.
by superninja
So, no Oracle perhaps. But Manhunter mans the Watchtower most of the time anyway. As for Aquaman's appearance on Superman -- Lois likes everyone: she liked Batman, she likes Superman, she likes Aquaman. In fact, that would be a funny element to include in the JLA cartoon. Maybe Lois will finally realize she has a thing for dangerous men and decide she loves Clark after all.****As for Arthur in the comics, his OWN book might be interesting, but he contributes very little to the JLA. Most of it is attitude, and I'm glad he's not on the lineup for this cartoon, because he doesn't even have the benefit of having lost his hand in the Superman:TAS version. There's just not much of a character there except for cool, undersea powers. Name me one Aquaman characteristic that he's known for - you can't. Superman is known for his nobility, Wonder Woman as a Warrior and Batman as the dark night. The rest are up for grabs.
-
The whole fun of it is seeing *if* Wonder Woman and Batman could trust one another, and examining why they don't. Batman and Wonder Woman have never been close. The phrase, "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" comes to mind. My personal theory is that Diana is afraid of Batman and vice versa. Batman confirmed her fears by inventing the protocols without telling them. Did you read the current issue of JLA btw? What do you think is going on there...NICE cliffhanger. Oh, and that new JL? line BLOWS.
-
Check out what she is doing in the SUperman comic series. With Luthor as president of the United States, Talia was asked by Luthor personally to take over as CEO of Lexcorp. Oh yeah. Talia is going to be a very important person for the next 4 years.
-
On the "which Green Lantern?" debate: It seems clear that everyone here who's seen Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern on the "Superman" 'toon thought thought he kicked ass. The character was very well-handled and the costume looked mighty cool (behold the snazzy character designs on this fan page: http://www.emeralddawn.com/gallery/brightest.htm ). Rayner is thus nicely established in the DC cartoon universe, and wouldn't necessarily bring any of the weak baggage over from the comics (consider how Dini and Timm streamlined Clayaface from the three average villains of the same name in the comic into one GREAT villain). But...sounds like Jon Stewart gets the role no matter what we say, so this debating is all academic. I'm not seeing anyone here who's really a big fan of Stewart at all, but I have confidence that Timm will make him memorable. It's what he does. ****** On who Batman should be dating: Honestly, most treatments of the character reveal that he'll never find love with *any* woman. You know, he's got that whole "Lifelong War On Crime"-thing. Wreaks havoc on dating. For my money, though, Catwoman's the only babe for him in the end. A volatile fling with Wonder Woman could be interesting, I'll agree, but if DC ever gets Alan Moore to write a last Batman story the way he did for the Pre-Crisis Superman, he damn well better be hooked up with that slinky Selena Kyle! I also think we're not likely to see much romance of ANY sort on the JLA 'toon. The Batman and Superman cartoons were pretty-focused on individual characters, and had room for the occasional injection of character development...but it was rare even for them. The only romance I remember was between Robin and Batgirl in "Sub Zero". So where'll they find time on a cartoon as fat-packed with characters as the JLA? It's gonna be heavy-duty action with (hopefully) strong characterization, but I doubt we'll see much in the way of relationships. I suppose they might go with tight continuity ala the "X-Men" cartoon, which opens some doors, but I think Timm prefers the punchiness of one-shot storylines. They'd be better off hooking up Bats and Wonder Woman in the comics. ******* On Aquaman: Yep, he still sucks. I always *want* to like the poor schmuck, but he's almost never interesting. I remember some pre-release hype for "Kingdom Come" where Mark Waid said he'd always liked that this undersea king was named Arthur, suggesting the King Arthur of legend. I like that notion too, of treating Aquaman as this brave, noble knight, but I don't recall whether that came out at all in "Kingdom Come". In fact, I barely remember Aquaman appearing in it at all. They should consider it for future treatments though. Seems Aquaman's basically angry all the time now, almost an overreaction to his goofy-grin "Superfriends" days and a history of being the lamest Justice Leaguer. I'd rather see him become something noble, in the truest Arthurian sense. ******* On Oracle in the JLA: Nope, shouldn't happen. In fact, the grim events of "The Killing Joke" should never have become part of DC continuity. The fact that the Joker racks up high body counts is kind of acceptable right up until he cripples a major character (and hasn't he killed Gordon's wife too?). Batman's justice is fairly black and white, and he's even been forced to kill on the occassion. The fact that the Joker still lives after crippling Batgirl and killing Gordon's wife just makes Batman look like, well, a pussy. Crude but true. Ironically, Oracle *has* become an excellent character, but her getting crippled to begin with is just out of place in the heroic DC Universe. Besides, the JLA should really be made up of your top-tier heroes, and Oracle is far more interesting with the street-level espionage stuff, as seen in "Birds of Prey". ******* On "Smallville": Oh, tryin' to gang up on me, eh? Alright, while I'm sure the reason the series has been greenlighted is because of venal producers hoping to cash in on the TV youth craze, as spearheaded by the WB, that doesn't mean the show will be bad! I'd love for there to be a great, traditional Superman series first, but remember that before the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" revamp, this character had a long history as Superboy. I assume they won't totally revert to those days and give Clark a costume for the show, but there is *most certainly* historical precedent for the character to have adventures as a kid. And yes, they may skew his character towards modern teen angst, but I'm hopeful that they won't. Even somewhat confident of it. "Lois & Clark", for all the vilification its received, actually got Clark's character very right...midwestern influence and all. And if that show can get it right, then "Smallville" has a decent shot too. I agree with you, Superninja, that Lana's not as strong a foil for Clark as Lois...but she needn't be. There'll be other characters to play off of, many of them original creations. I'm maybe overly enthused for the show, it's true, but I think Clark Kent can be done as an interesting character (again, "Lois & Clark" often got him dead-on, whatever its other failings). And I suppose the "Bruce Wayne" concept has some possiblities too, but I maintain that Wayne's too driven for me to want to see a lot of his pre-Batman world. Clark's closer to a normal guy, and done right, he's actually got personality. Batman's personality is "I destroy crime".
-
Superninja's right, the "JL?" event blows, and blows hard. For those that aren't familiar with the "premise", well, as I understand it, some alien baddies cook up a device to erase everyone's memory of the JLA existing, thus insuring that the team won't even think to join forces when the aliens strike. With me so far? The earth baddie that's helping 'em, Hector "Big-Ass Head" Hammond, decides at the last minute not to betray Earth, and shouts into the mindwipe device something to the effect of "Remember the Justice League of A -- !" And then he gets blasted or similarly removed from the picture before he can finish. Cut to the "event" - all the individual Justice Leagers know that there's supposed to be *some* kind of Justice League, and it starts with the letter "A", so they do the best they can with the limited knowledge and each member sets up his or her own team. Still with me? Man, I'm barely with myself. So Batman forms the Justice League of Arkham, made up, for unfathomable reasons, of his arch-fucking-foes from Arkham. Then Superman's got his Justice League of Aliens, with the Martian Manhunter, Starfire from the Titans, etc. Easily the saddest of the bunch: the Justice League of Atlantis, made up of Aquaman and all his similarly lame swimming pals. Rounding out the mix with a bit of T&A is the Justice League of Amazons - Wonder Woman, Power Girl, Big Barda, etc., etc. Y'know, we Talkbackers may disagree over the exact line-up of the animated JLA, but can we all at least unite in harmonious agreement that the "JL?" line is the stupidest JLA piece of shit permutation since the days of Vibe the breakdancer? Besides, DC missed a big opportunity for the event: the Justice League of Assholes! Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Guy Gardner, and that "Bat-Mite" of the Green Lantern Corp., G'nort! Now that I woulda bought. Justice League of Assholes, baby. High concepts like that are why DC needs to hire me RIGHT NOW.
-
The rest of the crew's in the Watchtower glued to the Superbowl, so snag a brew and come join us. Booster Gold's passed out, Blue Beetle and Guy Gardner are competing to see who can evoke the most obnoxious sound from their armpits, and G'Nort just marked the couch with his scent. Apparently there's a monsoon devastating Bangladesh, but it'll hold till after the game. Welcome, then, to the Justice League of Assholes! (By the way, your new codename is Captain Uncle Fucka).
-
Cormorant, I'm not debating so much as FLAMING MAD now about this John lame-ass Stewart thing. Steel might suck in some people's eyes, but he's STILL better than John Stewart. I don't WANT Timm to bother making Stewart interesting unless he's featured in flashbacks or as a Darkstarr, but I have a suggestion how they can fix this mistake. They could at some point swap GL's, reusing that wonderful Superman episode as Kyle's introduction to replace Stewart. That episode screamed for a JLA series, so contradicting it with Stewart's presence just sucks. I know it's useless wishing on my part, but this is too wrong.*****Sleazy_G, I don't want to spoil Return of the Joker for you, but I hated what it did to Robin. Had it been Jason Todd, I wouldn't have minded. It's the first time I ever really rejected what they did on the animated shows--until this Stewart thing. And Barbara doesn't get shot and crippled, so if they try to stay true to BB, there wouldn't be any Oracle.
-
Is this stupid event even remotely related to the stuff with the two Batman's at the end of the last issue? The the Tower of Babel story has been excellent, something this new show would be smart to adapt at some point, but there have been so many unrelated "events" on the JLA that I can't keep track of it.*****Oh, Sleazy_G, I haven't followed Talia's appearances on Batman, but that's yet another reason to forget about keeping continuity with BB. They had her dad put his brain in her body, and she supposedly LET him!
-
On the basis of some of you Talkbackers praising the Batman/protocols/etc. storyline of JLA, I went to the local comic book store and inadvertantly bought JL?. I read it, and was disappointed that it didn't have the story that I was looking for. Later I come back here to the Talkback Board to discover I actually bought something that most of you believe to be crap; something that you would not have recommended. What have we learned? Well, for one thing, Village Idiot is a nickname that is richly deserved. Actually, the story wasn't godawful (I'm sorry, that distinction goes to the Superman story where Supes spent 1000 years in another dimension with Wonder Woman (oy vey).) BTW, is it just me, or does Hector Hammond bears a bit of a resemblance to a certain Hulk adversary with an incredibly huge cranium and mustache? (And no, I don't mean Betty Ross.)
-
Whoever okayed the character design for that mullet-sporting villain should be shot. A superior alien intelligence communicating via cellphone? I think I speak for us all when I say, "BLEEECH!" I find it even more ridiculous not that the characters all form their own Justice Leagues, but that they have this stupid subliminal need to draw/write/manifest JLA on things.******Aquaman as the Arthur of Legend, or just with noble characteristics? It could be interesting if he was the actual Arthur. They already have their SuperKnight.******I agree that Batman is the sort of character that will inevitably end up alone. However, Catwoman is not the answer to me. They've drawn out her and Bruce's relationship as far as it will go. The very fact that Bruce doesn't trust super powered folks makes the idea of him falling for one so appealing to me. I'm not saying a Bruce/Diana pairing would work, but it could be an interesting experiment and a nice change of pace.******Are you kidding about there being no romance on the cartoons? What about Superman/Lois? What about Bruce/Catwoman/Talia? Of course whole storylines wouldn't focus on it, but don't forget in that in continuity Bruce was nearly ENGAGED to Lois. And in the early JLA comics, didn't they both have a thing for Wonder Woman? Maybe my memory is just skewed. And if so, then what the hell was Trinity about, and why does WW come between Bats and Supes in Kingdom Come (Cormorant's favorite publication ever)? It seems pretty clear to me in the comics continuity that Superman has a thing for Wonder Woman, though he loves Lois, and that Batman clearly senses it and finds it somewhat dangerous. Hey, got a bit excited there, but just stating my case...
-
The current run is pretty good. But most of the stand-alone's have been just horrible. That Wonder Woman "League of One" was bad, "Heaven's Ladder" - bad, Acts of God - BAD. Btw, does anyone remember an issue of Superman where him and Wonder Woman were macking on the cover? Was that an Elseworlds? My mom chunked it when I was a kid because she thought it was too "provacative". But I can't find a backissue of it anywhere.
-
I think that Superman/Wonder Woman lip-lock cover you're thinking of might, just might, be "Action Comics" #600, circa 1988. It's just a little image, though, one of four or five pictures showing the different stories within. The Supes/Wonder Woman story is the first one, and aside from the spit-swapping, there's nothing remotely provactive about it. They meet, he plants one on her, she's slightly taken aback, they agree to get to know one another, and then, before any *actual* character development can occur, they have to go save Mt. Olympus from Darkseid. It's got John Byrne art inked by George Perez - kinda cool - but otherwise you're not missing a thing. ******* As for romance on the Batman and Superman cartoons...well, we saw maybe an innocent kiss or two, and there was occasional sexual tension (mostly owing to the femme fatale status of so many of Batman's villainesses), but beyond that, not even so much as a date, and certainly nothing I'd call "romance". Talia loved Batman, but nothing was done with it. Catwoman had the hots for him too, but nothing ever came of it. And Superman and Lois...I'm not even sure if they ever kissed. They were pretty much just rivals and close friends, and the show always made action the focus. And the JLA 'toon will probably continue that tradition. I'm pretty vague on all the comic continuity relationships, but I do think that's the better venue for exploring 'em. Still, if they do go for any naughty-naughty on the cartoon, might I suggest Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl? What? Isn't it *obvious* that they've always harbored certain forbidden longings? You know it's true. ******* By the way, the only reason the Batman/Catwoman relationship has stagnated is because of lazy writers who're compelled to rehash the "Batman Returns" take on the relationship at every opportunity (they kiss, she scratches him and runs, they kiss, she scratches him and runs, ad infinitum). DC needs to bring in a writer willing to take some risks with their relationship. Catwoman's always been portrayed as the one chick who can get under Batman's skin, now they just need to take it from there and not wuss out. ****** Couldn't resist pushing my "Kingdom Come" button could ya? Did you even notice that I held back on slamming it, and was even vaguely complimentary to Mark Waid for his conception of Aquaman? It took effort, lemme tell ya. I'm this close to dredging up the "Cormorant Classic" where I rank on it, but this Talkback should be a festive occasion, so I'll be nice. ******* Re: Aquaman and King Arthur...No, I didn't mean to suggest he actually is Arthur, just that I'd like to see him interpreted as the embodiment of a great, chivalrous Arthur-like king - noble, even gentlemanly (in that old-fashioned, courtly way), a brilliant warrior and tactician, and maybe just a little bit righteous (but not so damned angry as they love to make him). Superman's the ultimate boy scout, but not quite a knight. It's like the difference between Captain America's can-do heroism and Thor's larger-than-life, old-world heroism. I'd like to see Aquaman a little closer to Thor in that respect. Or I'd just like to see him forgotten. I'm down for either, but I like to think that there are no bad characters, just bad writers. Anyone can be redeemed. ****** And lastly, I think DC's making a mistake with all those JLA specials and one-shots. The title skyrocketed to flagship status when Morrison showed how it was done, but fer Chrissakes, there's such a thing as overkill. Fans are getting burned, and I think readers will start dropping the regular JLA comic if DC keeps shoving Justice crap down their throats. "Justice League Vs. Predators"? The "Justice League/Witchblade" crossover? With dreck like that on the shelves, I half think I've got a shot at selling the "Justice League of Assholes" concept.
-
Village_Idiot, you're definitely right about Hector Hammond's resemblance to the Leader. And they both kinda look like Sinestro too. Apparently big dome + pencil mustache = villainy. Still, when it comes to big-head villains, can anyone take down the mighty M.O.D.O.K., the dude with normal arms and legs sticking out of a head the size of a Cadillac? And did ya know M.O.D.O.K. is the all-time great villain acronym, abbreviating Mobile Organism Designed Only for Killing? F with him and he'll headbutt you through a wall. Wow, normally I try and advocate non-superhero comics, but this Talkback has released a flood of totally geeky superhero trivia from within me. Apologies. Read "Concrete".
-
Is it true that there are no new Batman Beyond episodes being made? Has the creative team for the show already moved on and stoppped production?
What about Batman Beyond movies? What was the end result of the Return of the Joker mess? Any other BB movies ever coming out? -
fmmill: Batman Beyond has no new EPS ordered for WB, but they are in talks with the Cartoon Network to pick up the series. Does anyone know if WB has some company ties to Cartoon Network? I've also heard they're considering releasing an uncut version of Batman: Return of the Joker. Could WB ACTUALLY be coming around to realizing their fan base is much older than they imagined? Maybe the crappy toy sales have told them a thing or two. Cartoon Network *is* a bit more provactive in their animated programming. I turned on a EP of Power Puff girls the other day, and the Mayor of the town was licking a cat. I won't discuss the positioning of the Mayor while he was licking it, but let's just say adults might've found the joke more than slightly amusing. Space Ghost Coast To Coast and Johnny Bravo (the human Pepe Le Pu) is another example.*****Cormorant: for shame. Superhero comics are just fine, you heartless bastard ;P. There is still romance on the cartoons, whether you like it or not. Again, not whole storylines devoted to it, but you can include hints of things without fleshing it out, just as they did in Batman. Btw, Catwoman got a Batman two-parter, and I even think he and Selina went on a date. Also, you failed to address the fact that Bruce was dating and almost married Lois in The World's Finest. And Lois has kissed Superman. Maybe you went to a website and just read the EP synposis' eh? Hahahah...you're a good sport, old chum! There was also a throwaway reference to Wonder Woman in a Superman EP when he frees a female Kryptonian from the Phantom Zone, and Lois makes a backhanded comment to Superman about her being, "No Wonder Woman." Not to mention numerous occassions where Lois is labeled as Superman's squeeze. Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl...how...MALE of you! Btw, how do the Amazons procreate come to think of it? I'm sure it's been addressed. You obviously hold a torch for Selina, so I won't go on. I agree there are no bad characters, just bad writing. Arthur is also a throw-away character for me. Good for guest spots, and what not. It seems DC is making the mistake with JLA as Marvel did with the X-Men, flooding the market with crap just to sell a comic. But I would suggest Justice League of @$$holes, then they could put in on the shelve right next to JL?.****Sleazy. I think the Claremont/Bryne run on the X-Men and his work with Windsor-Smith are very classic works. I'll forgive him for his writing because in this case I think the artist makes all the difference. Lenil Yu can't tell a story with his pretty pictures, and Claremont's style coupled with it just sucks. Stephen King *is* a $hit writer -- I'm glad someone finally agrees with me! I think your Granny/Batman story has some potential ;P The New Gods: The poor man's Justice League. And is jibba jabba a Mr. T/A-Team reference?
-
Now my post is lost forever! Whaaaaaa....
-
Hey, Superninja, I never said I *don't* want a little romance in my superhero 'toons, just that their track record is pretty spotty on the subject, and likely to remain that way. And maybe I "just read the EP synopsis'"? Ouch. Admittedly, you pulled up some good counterexamples. Was Lois really on the verge of becoming Mrs. Batman in that "World's Finest"? Okay, it's been awhile since I've seen it, no need to kick my ass now. Actually, I think it'd be kinda cool if Bruce Timm did follow the example of the "X-Men" cartoon, *only* insofar as creating some ongoing soap operatics and character evolution. I still want tight, focused storylines, but it'd an interesting experiment if continuity were beefed up to the point that relationships could evolve over the course of several episodes, or a whole season. Doesn't seem like Bruce Timm's style, but I think he could make it work. ****** As for Amazons procreating...they don't. But they're also immortal, so barring the occasional disaster where they lose one or two, the island remains at a steady population. Speaking of tawdry Wonder Woman/Hawkgirl fantasies, though, the Amazons haven't *completely* forsaken the pleasures of the flesh by isolating themselves from men. During George Perez's fantastic run on "Wonder Woman", the topic was addressed when various reporters (including Lois Lane) and religious leaders were allowed onto Paradise Island for the grand tour. During the tour, a Unitarian minister asks one of the Amazons, "Don't you miss the *sharing* god intended for the sexes?" Her response basically breaks down Amazon sexuality: "Some do. They have sworn themselves to Artemis, the virgin hunter, and Athena, the chaste warrior. Others choose the way of Narcissus. But most of us find satisfaction in each other -- three thousand years can be a longtime, Reverend." Taken slightly aback, he responds with a small, "Oh", and you see Lois grinning a little at his discomfert. Really a very smart scene, both subtle and totally revealing. Wonder Woman will never have a writer like that again.
-
I'm glad the TalkBacks are in proper order again. In World's Finest, Lois puts in a transfer to the Planet's Gotham branch and when Clark asks her if it's serious, she says yes. So the Amazons are lesbos, eh? I guess that would fit in with the Greek mythos. Still don't think Wonder Woman is a lesbian, or even should be. Doesn't have time to be, in fact, much like Batman. Okay, maybe I just don't want her to be one. I don't like gratuitous sexuality in comics.
-
Frankly Cormorant, I think you're reading *way* to much into the Wonder Woman scene you described. We all know that *sharing* is simply a euphamism for sex. Wait a second--OH MY GOD!
-
I just realized something...Clark would never have left Martha alone if Jonathan had died. I think I have a really good point here! He would not have left his mother to fend for herself. Also, that kid's wig really bites and there's no way he grew up to look like Chris Reeve. Who is a major fox, btw...Anyone else watching? I also like that Clark had the wherewithal to find his own fortress in the cartoons, and not throw daddy's toy into the ice. Was this in the comics as well?
-
Jan 29, 2001 8:30:56 PM CST
Well, the indication was that *most* of the Amazons are lesbos..
by dave_f
...but Wonder Woman has always seemed pretty hetero, as is the case for pretty much any mainstream, iconic hero. And rest assured that the sexuality was never gratuitous during Perez's run. The comment I excerpted was just an insightful touch of realism. In fact, I don't recall Wonder Woman seeing *anyone* during Perez's run of 50+ issues. Old-continuity boyfriend Steve Trevor became just a friend, and he had a very nicely-told romance with another supporting character. Actually, beyond the almost-fling with Superman, it was kind of cool that Perez never went out of his way to sexualize Diana and pick a boyfriend for her. Female characters in superhero comics tend to be overly defined by their sexuality, and considering Wonder Woman's costume, it's hardly a surprise. But, yes, it's possible to sustain a great female character without constantly fretting about who she's dating. Getting back to the specifics of that scene I described...not only do we have the euphamism of "sharing", but also Perez's sly use of "the way of Narcissus" in place of the dreaded "m" word. Sly bastard. I seriously wish DC would collect his entire run on the title. I mean, aren't there enough Batman trades out that they could spare a little paper for one of the best superhero comics of the 80's?
-
Well, S-Ninja, I figure the Kent family probably got some decent insurance money when poor Jonathan died, so Martha wasn't totally strapped financially. And didn't Clark mention finding some help to replace him on the farm? The movie might not've spelled out all the steps he took to make sure his Ma was okay, but I think we can be sure he did take steps. Y'know, being Clark Kent and all. Besides, he wasn't just leaving home to look for a job or chase a girl...he was following the call of destiny. Can't turn that down. ***** Don't knock the kid playing young Clark. He did some fine acting, notably during the scene where Pa Kent tells him about using his powers responsibly, and when he tells his Ma that he has to leave home. You can nitpick a few visual details, but the fact remains that the kid was a great young Clark Kent. ***** As for the Fortress of Solitude gripes..."throw Daddy's toy?" Whew, you're out for blood today. Personally, I have no problem with the movie's alternate interpretation. It's a more mythic version, suggesting the role of Superman as an almost mystical calling for young Clark Kent. Working within the context of the rest of the film, I think it's a lot more involving than other versions I've seen of Clark's younger days and the origin of the Fortress of Solitude. In the cartoon, I remember Superman secreting something in the Arctic (maybe Brainiac's glowing Krypton globe-thingee?), and commenting with a smile, "I knew this place had possibilities," right before a too-quick fade out to commercials. Decent set-up for the Fortress, but not exactly stirring. In the movie, you see Clark wandering the north, cold and alone but drawn to his destiny. Stronger emotional content I think. And in the movie, the fortress isn't just a place to store his loot, it's the place where he learns what it *means* to be Superman. I like that too, though the idea of him being removed from the world for ten years of training by a holographic Jor-El seems a little isolating. Anyway, the movie's not perfect, but it deserves massive credit for taking a character with almost 40 years of *generally awful* stories behind him, and restoring him to his status as the greatest modern hero of them all. It might not be your ideal, but it found the core of a character who was slowly dying under the weight of decades of crap stories. It really paved the way for the more human Superman that's became the standard model following the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" event.
-
I knew I could call you out! Hahah...I want to be in the Injustice League of @$$holes. What you like about Superman taking hold of his mystical destiny is the exact opposite of what I like...the fact that Clark was given the tools, but he creates his destiny for himself, as witnessed in the animated series. Clark got the floating orb from Braniac, and I thought it was very clever how they combined Brainac's motivation with Superman's desire to learn about his past. Still, it's a great movie. A little dated, but great. It's a lot like the X-Men in that Hugh Jackman made that film for me and Christopher Reeve makes Superman. Another question: What kind of journalist asks her subject what color underwear she's wearing? I have the feeling that whole scene was written to explain that fact he can't see through lead. And then he PEEKS ANYWAY!!! Superman would never do that ;)
-
Yes, it's true, I predictably jump through hoops to defend Donner's "Superman" at the slightest disparaging word. It is, in all honesty, one of my favorite films. Donner's done some crap in his time, from "The Toy" to "Lethal Weapon 4", but somehow this unlikeliest of candidates made the best superhero movie ever. For that, I think he's keen.
-
I don't have many comics he wrote, but the ones I remember him for are some damn good stories. Appropriately and sadly enough (given his automobile accident), Mantlo's best stories seem to be tragedies. I've got a few issues of "Rom" I enjoyed quite a bit, and they're all on the dark side. The single issue of "Hulk" I own is a Bill Mantlo story, and it's quite a downer too. The premise involves the High Evolutionary wanting to commit suicide, but finding that his cybernetic armor is so powerful - even borderline sentient - that it won't *let* him kill himself. He pisses off the Hulk knowing that the Hulk's one of the only forces powerful enough to damage his armor beyond its ability to repair itself. The closing lines to the story are almost corny, but Uncle F is right, Mantlo sells 'em. The story I remember Mantlo best for, however, is a back-up Daredevil story he did in "Marvel Fanfare". Next to Roger Stern's "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man", it's the biggest tear-jerker story I've ever read in a superhero comic. I'll have to recount it sometime, since I'm sure it's a largely unsung story.
-
The press release never mentioned "who" will be Green Lantern. For arguements sake, let's say that it IS John Stewart. John Stewart is the perfect compromise for GL. Personally, I love Hal Jordan and would have him as my top pick, with Kyle Raynor being my least favorite (I agree with Sleazy_G, Kyle's GL costume just looked STUPID). That brings up another issue -- what if they DID use Kyle? Well, Kyle is not the traditional GL so having him in an traditional GL costume makes no sense, and may upset alot of people (he looked an awful lot like Hal Jordan in that Superman episode, and that certainly made ME upset). Now let's say they use Kyle in his new costume -- well that means he is the only GL alive, and we would have no "GL CORPS". I agree that there must be a GL in this series with the traditional look, and I'm happy with John or Hal (even Guy Gardner would be cool). Personally I think John has never been developed enough in the comic book series and perhaps this will give him his due. Having an original GL corps member (as compared to the solo Kyle Raynor) will also allow for special appearances from other corps members like Hal, Guy, Kilowag, or whomever! From a mass appeal standpoint, having a black superhero would also broaden the show's appeal. John Stewart is a good GL, and I think he will be every bit as interesting as the great Hal Jordan. He's definitely no Kyle Raynor, but I think this is a good thing.
-
Just wanted to chime in to say that I remember that episode of Batman: Gotham Knights (which was the title of the series featuring Tim Drake as Robin). The Carrie story was a cool reference, but I got even more of a kick out of the jab that even made the imdb-trivia section in their entry for B:GK. I quote: "In the episode "Legends of the Dark Knight," a kid named Joel associates Batman with "tight rubber armor," and "a flashy car that can drive up walls," both references to Batman Forever (1995), which was directed by Joel Schumacher." Smooth.
-
Alas, criticism of Superman is surefire way to smoke me out too. (Sorry for butting in.) Superninja, who to my memory has always been as sharp as a tack makes some excellent points: In the movie, is Clark as a tool of something greater, following his "destiny," or is Clark using his tools as a shaper of his own destiny? To a degree, that's what the movie is about: Clark as man vs. Clark as Superman. Clark, created by Pa Kent vs. Superman, ostensibly created by Jor-El. The Clark side ultimately wins, defying Jor-El and changing history. Thus Clark reclaims control of his own destiny. (Of course, he gets a bit carried away in Superman II.) Neat story, however in Superman the Animated Series this dichotomy is never really explored. Very simply, Superman=Clark Kent, thank you and g'night. Anyway, as a final note, no, I'm definitely not "Deno." (Not that anything's wrong with being Deno, it's just not me.) Now pardon me while I sink back into obscurity.
-
Nice to see I still make typos.
-
Aha! Zeno mystery solved! But what I am intigued about is the penthouse scene in Superman. Frankly Superninja, I think you're reading *way* too much into the scene. We all know that Supes would never use his x-ray vision in such a sordid manner. I mean, Lois simply asks what his favorite color is, and he chimes in "Pink!" right after she walks out from behind the lead planter box where she asked him about the color of her underwear. Wait a second--OH MY GOD!
-
Zeno: The reason it's never explored in the cartoons, and frankly, I don't believe much in the comics is because Superman *is* Clark. Superman is arguably more human than many of the people he protects, which is a wonderful characterization contrast considering he's an alien. It's what brings me back to the character every time. If he embraced his alien heritage, it would make him far less interesting. The movie is a great piece of cinema, especially for the superhero genre, but it still does not compare, IMHO, to the characterization of the animated series. In the film, he's tempted to use his powers to get ahead in life until a speech from his father, when in the comics, isn't neccessary simply because of the way he was brought up. That to me is the joy of the character that here you have this man with the power of a god, and everything he wants from life is so simple and so very human. The film captures it pretty well, but I love how the animated series makes Clark less of a bumbler and more of a farm boy that sticks out in the big city. Kal-El is his birthright, but Clark is who the man is. VillageIdiot: I think your patent humor is coming along quite nicely. BuzzMaverick is still the champion in that arena, simply because of his unfathomable geek knowledge, but you do have a way with words ;)
-
I like John Stewart as GL. I would prefer Hal, but I think John has been very underdeveloped in the comic books, and I think this will give him his due. And having an original GL means that you can members from the corps make guest appearances. I am glad it is not Kyle -- he looked alot like HAL in that Superman episode, and that just ticked me off to no end. And I am especially glad they are not using Kyle in his new costume -- that ugly black and white thing with the dumb face-plate. I think John will be every bit as good a character as Hal. All hail John Stewart!
-
Superninja writes of Superman, "If he embraced his alien heritage, it would make him far less interesting," and for the most part, I agree. When I'm looking for a persistent vision of Superman, I prefer the post-Crisis take on the character that John Byrne created and that the animated series adapted. I like a Clark Kent who's fairly self-assured, with his moral code more from Kansas than Krypton. In *spite* of my preference for that version, "Superman: The Movie" remains my favorite Superman story. To a degree, I stand by it simply because it's the best-crafted Superman story I've ever come across. Fine writing, both dramatic and witty. Strong direction and thematic depth. A definitive actor in the role. Great special effects. John Williams and his unbeatable fanfare. Those elements combined in the space of a two-and-a-half hour film simply make for a more affecting experience for me than, say, 20 very solid issues of the comic, or a season of great animated adventures. I love the cartoon, but it's never produced a moment I find as powerful as the scene in the movie where Clark tells Ma Kent he has to leave home, or as triumphant as Superman's first appearance at the helicopter accident, or as tragic as Lois' death. In short, one of the reasons I give the film the nod over other versions of Superman is the high level of craft it displays at all levels. ***** Okay, Cormorant, so you think it's better storytelling than you see in the comics or 'toons...but how do you defend Chris Reeves' seriously wimpy version of Clark Kent? Or the fact that Superman's Kryptonian heritage does play a fairly vital role? I thought you said you preferred the assertive Clark Kent that Byrne introduced! I thought you preferred the Kansas influence over Krypton! Are you flip-flopping on what makes Superman Superman just because the movie was well-made, dumb ass!? Well...sorta. The thing is, part of the reason I don't generally like the pre-Crisis Superman elements (overly wimpy Kent, stronger Kryptonian influence on his life, melodramatic guilt over not being able to save his parents) is that they were just poorly presented. The elements aren't bad in and of themselves, but the writers were simply awful for the most part, unable to find anything *meaningful* in those elements. Enter Richard Donner and Mario Puzo. They found the meaning. They presented Kent as a distinctly different persona than Superman, and in many ways it's a more challenging take than the post-Crisis version. Because Reeves' Kent *isn't* totally likeable with all his bumbling and shyness. He's more of a tragic character. Superman needs to live as Kent to stay human and find some comfort in the world, but his life as Kent is destined to always be something of a disguise (Kurt Busiek took this concept even further with the tragic character of Samaritan in the brilliant first issue of "Astro City"). It's not a comforting thought, but it is powerful. This Superman is nobler than the post-Crisis version precisely because he *is* willing to give up so much to protect his identity. The death of Clark's father is another defining element of the older Superman incarnations ("All my powers...and I couldn't save him"). In the comics, it was little more than a way to lend the hero some guilt. Shorthand dramatic depth. But Donner and Puzo pulled off a neat little trick by reprising Clark's old feelings of helplessness when he finds Lois buried in her car. The sadness of Pa Kent's death comes back to us, and we feel Clark's sense of guilt and failure. His world-changing actions on Lois' behalf are more believable because his guilt has long been established. Yes, the movie played up Clark's Krpytonian heritage by suggesting that it was Jor-El's teachings that led to the creation of Superman, but that only makes it more significant when Superman defies Jor-El's words to save Lois. Defying your father to follow your heart? Defying nature itself in a single moment of earthly self-interest? That is simply inspired storytelling, elevating Superman beyond the realm of escapist adventure and into the realm of myth. Superhero comics are sometimes described as modern-day mythology, but "Superman: The Movie" is one of the few occasions where I think the description is warranted. And y'know what else is interesting about that ending? In a way, it actually arrives at the same conclusion that we see in the post-Crisis Superman stories: that human values are more important than the sterile codes of Krypton. Interesting convergence! My major point, again, is that the old Superman ideas aren't necessarily wrong or outdated...they just need skillful storytellers to bring them to fruition. Since the writing quality at DC nowadays is remarkably better than in decades past, I'd actually be interested to see DC experiment with some of the classic Superman elements in the comics - Clark's guilt, the disparate Clark/Superman identities, even Luthor as a known criminal genius. I don't mean in the context of the current DC continuity, but what about a stand-alone Superman comic in the tradition of Marvel's "Ultimate Spider-Man" and "Ultimate X-Men"? Post-Crisis Superman continuity has a lot going for it, but I want to see some modern writers work with a few of the pre-Crisis elements. Would they turn out anything as inspired as "Superman: The Movie"? I'd be interested to see. I think Big Blue is open to a little creative interpretation. ****** P.S. Yo, yo, yo, Zeno, you reclusive bastard! Always good to see you around, if only to back the crusade for Richard Donner's "Superman". Almost makes up for your previous harsh words regarding Singer's "X-Men". I said almost!
-
Okay, thele, you and aren't going to agree. I LOVED seeing Kyle in the Hal Jordan costume because it took the best of the GL characters and put him in the best Green Lantern scenario. I hate this "he's the only one" garbage, it's limiting and it betrays too much of GL's history. Kyle can feel the pressure to live up to his predecessors without being the only Green Lantern in existance! I don't think they should use the stupid outfit Kyle wears in the comics either, but Kyle is the most interesting GL character, hands down. Granted, he doesn't have a Starsaphire relationship with a villain, in fact the villains thrown at him have flat out sucked(even that new guy with a yellow ring they've just introduced hasn't impressed me any). But more importantly, the episode of the animated Superman was the one that made me really want to see this team animate the JLA. The music, the dialogue, the design, it was all excellent. And the ending just seemed like the biggest tease, and a promise of what was to come. Now they'll be acting as if that epsiode didn't happen? No! A thousand times NOOOOO! It's wrong. What's worse, John Stewart isn't intersting as a Green Lantern. Period. Now if they wanted to make him leader of the Darkstarrs, which might work together with the Green Lantern Corps, that I would love since it would expand the DC animated universe even further, and meld current and Silver Age continuity even more(which is an improvment in my opinion). You didn't like seeing Kyle look like Hal? Well I'm 100% against you. That was a stroke of genius--almost as smart as putting Dick Grayson in the current Robin outfit instead of those too-bright-colored-for-night-time underwear digs. Hal's more interesting as a wisened veteran, not a beginner, which was a large part of "In Brightest Day"'s charm. There's more drama to a simple cartoonist becoming a Super hero that requires visual thinking than a hardened fighter pilot. I'd much rather see Hal featured as the Spectre. And both him, Stewart, and the annoying Guy Gardner, wouldn't have to be out of the picture with Kyle as the JLA's GL, but he would definatly be out if Stewart's wearing the ring(so would Hal). No, Stewart shouldn't be the show's GL unless we're going to switch to Kyle during the show's run(and early on in that run). Finally, no Kyle means no Sinestro since he was introduced with Kyle in "In Brightest Day." You could work around it maybe, but why create the agrivation? Just feature Kyle as they did on Superman and leave it at that! They shouldn't start contradicting the other shows(except for maybe BB).
-
Jan 31, 2001 3:20:33 PM CST
Village Idiot picks up the ball and runs with it, past the endzo
by village idiot
Well, in spite of having some of my illusions shattered by this talkback, it's interesting to note how it has become one of the most thoughtful discussions of Superman that I've seen in a while (there's some good things at the DC boards sometimes too). Allow me for the record to make a couple of esoteric clarifications: Puzo's original Superman script was kinda campy. David & Leslie Newman's and Robert Benton's re-write was even more so. It wasn't until Tom Mankiewicz (for all intents and purposes, the real writer) and Richard Donner came on board that much of the camp was thrown out in favor of (and here's that word again) verisimilitude (i.e. the depiction of realism). Mankiewicz and Donner are to featured on the commentary track on the Superman DVD. Also, Donner came up the the ending of Superman I almost on the spot. Originally, Superman just saves Lois from the earthquake. His going back in time was supposed to happen in Superman II, after one of the Kryptonians kills Lois. Supes goes back in time, with the consequence being that the Fortress of Solitude is destroyed. Scenes were shot where Lois and Superman break up amidst the melting Fortress. Reeve and Donner felt that the end of Sup I needed more of an emotional climax, so they stuck the time travel deal in. More info about this stuff, including a quicktime film of the scene descibed above, check out "Superman Cinema." (By the way, the scene is ridiculous. Superman and Lois having a heart to heart while sloshing around in knee-deep water: "Well Lois," *slosh-slosh* "I don't think it's gonna work out between us.")
-
Well, Sleazy, I think that when Tim Burton's "Batman" hit, with its very stylized depiction of Gotham City, DC decided that the other fictional cities of the DC Universe needed a little defining. Well, Metropolis anyway. I first remember seeing the distinctively futuristic version in a "World's Finest" miniseries written by Dave Gibbons and drawn by Steve Rude (late 80's?). Great art, painfully bad story. Anyway, it made a point of constantly contrasting Batman and Superman (overly so, really), and since the story bounced around between their home cities quite a bit, each city was given very distinctive and opposing looks. Gotham was gritty, with bats filling the night sky, gargoyles on rooftops, etc. Metropolis, on the other hand, took inspiration from the '39 World's Fair - it was shiny clean, with Gotham's bats replaced by doves, its gargoyles replaced by art deco designs. I'm not 100% positive that's the first case of that particular look, but I'm pretty sure of it. And because it's been very fashionable in the post-Crisis world to make Batman and Superman distinctly different types of heroes, giving their home towns distinctly different looks stuck. The Superman animated series picked up the notion too (though I always thought it was nowhere near as developed as Gotham's look), and of course, that just reinforced the idea for the comics. I have mixed thoughts on the concept. It *does* make Metropolis stand out, but it also makes the city look so idealistic that it's hard to imagine it generates all the crime Superman fights. I guess I'd ultimately prefer a more "New York" Metropolis. I take it you were funnin' about the flying cars, though, 'cause that's just plain *wrong*. Same for introducing real cities like New York in the DC Universe. What's the point of acknowledging New York if you've established Metropolis as THE BIG CITY? Fire whoever did that. ***** Lastly, you're probably right to avoid the Superman titles these days. I haven't read any Superman titles beyond the cartoon-based comic since Byrne quit, and every time a skim one I remember why: bad, bad, bad committee writing. It shreds cohesive storytelling like nobody's business. I guess that's why I'm so impressed with the Batman "No Man's Land" trades I just started picking up. I just assumed the quality would be so hit-and-miss that I'd be turned off, but the stories kick some hearty ass. It's shocking, really, and there are some excellent artists to boot. Recommended.
-
Jan 31, 2001 6:23:53 PM CST
And I'm sure Cormorant merely forgot to mention that. . .
by village idiot
In the Y2k deal with Braniac 13 in the comics last year, Braniac's nanobots did a total technological overhaul/upgrade on Metropolis, which is why it now *really* looks like the Jetsons instead of just Art Deco. I don't think it will last however. Lexcorp has somehow taken control of the technology and plans to spread it to other cities as well. Steel hates it. Meanwhile, any thoughful Superman fan may want to check out the latest Action Comics: "What's So Funny 'Bout Truth, Justice, and the American Way?" A really solid one-shot that deals with Superman's morality. (And of course, any thoughtful Elvis Costello fan will want to check out "What's So Funny About Peace, Love and Understanding." A pretty solid song that deals with Elvis's morality.)
-
"Superman: The Movie" really is among my favorite films, but ironically, I know very little of its script and filming history. I found a website with lots of info a few months back, but my hard drive went ker-blooey and I lost the bookmark before I had a chance to really scope the site out. I *was* aware that the script went through several versions, but I've been crediting Donner and Puzo just to keep my posts at least somewhat focused. For the points I wanted to make, it wasn't too relevant to know how the movie came about, simply that it did. The background is mighty appreciated though. It's pretty amazing the film seems so cohesive considering all the script transitions it went through. Really lookin' forward to that DVD commentary!
-
Like I mentioned a post or two back, I generally avoid the committee writing antics behind the Batman and Superman titles. It's depressing that there's a running continuity between all of them, yet the creators range from excellent to horrible. That inevitable rise and fall in quality kills stories for me. In fact, I just borrowed the Superman "No Limits" trade from a friend a week or two back, and after reading the first three issues within was about to give Superman comics a chance again. There was good characterization, some neat plot twists, and very solid art. Then came the shit chapters. Really awful, uninspired work, coexisting right alongside the good stuff like an inbred, hillbilly cousin who you just can't kick out of the house...'cause, ya know, he's family. These crappy chapters were integral to the overall storyline (though sometimes just for a few relevant panels), but they crushed the momentum. Creative integrity was thrown out the window. I couldn't even plow my way through the rest of the trade after about three crap chapters. It seems Superman's just not worth my time these days. I might check out that story you mentioned, "What's So Funny...", but otherwise, it's strictly the animation-inspired "Superman Adventures" for me. Self-contained story arcs authored wholly by a single creative team - that's the only way to fly. Bummer, because Lex Luthor as El Presidente seemed promising.
-
Sounds good in theory, but will it be executed properly? Sure, now Superman has to play nice w/ Lex because he runs the country, and Lex can institute his players at the top of every national committee and directorship, but is it going to be any different than what happened for years in Metropolis? Lex was president of Metropolis, and this is just a large-scale version of that. It makes for a neat twist, but I hope they don't focus on it too much. I hope in the new JLA cartoon, they somehow work in Luthor getting a Kryptonite ring and then losing his hand from the raditation. That would be sweeet!
-
Jan 31, 2001 8:43:12 PM CST
Superman comics: more info than you want, and probably more info
by village idiot
Yeah, "Superman: No Limits" contains the aformentioned "Superman and Wonder Woman test the limits of platonic love for 1000 years" plotline. (And yes, I said 1000 years.) I actually said the words aloud "What do you take me for?" while reading it. But lately, each of the four Superman titles have run their own separate storylines, where the strengths and weaknesses have really come to light. "Superman" and "Man of Steel" are generally regarded as the best ones, with "Superman" written by Jeph Loeb of "Man for All Seasons" and "Long Halloween" fame. I remember reading an interview where he said he's trying to infuse more of the feel of magic of the first Superman movie into the books. Personally, I'm not in love with the Magna-style artwork. I find "Man of Steel" pretty darned entertaining, despite its corniness. As for the other titles: last month "Action Comics" had a guest penciller that took a new approach to the artwork that had an almost underground comic look to it. Interesting, but totally inapproriate. It made a good story almost unreadable. This month's Action is *much* better, almost a revelation. Meanwhile, "The Adventures of Superman" has been having shake-ups among its creative staff. A weak Satanus story about Superman's soul, the spirit of Metropolis (!?), and weird babes in pseudo-native american/figure-skating garb was handed off from Mattheis to someone else in the last issue. The stink is still eminating from the comic bag I have it sealed in. Manke, the guy who's been drawing it for the last year is out too. New people will be on it shortly. Of course, for February, all the titles will be linked for "Return to Krypton," a storyline that has geek brother turning against geek brother everywhere: Loeb is trying to sneak a Sliver Age retcon on Superman's origin. Apparantly, all of Superman's Byrnian info regarding Krypton was a ruse made by Jor-El in order to purposely alienate Kal-El from Krypton and engender a deeper connection with Earth. In reality, Krypton was really just like it was in the Silver Age. Lois and Clark will be checking this out via The Phantom Zone in all the February books. Many people are saying Loeb will cheese out and make it a "hypertime" deal; however "Krypto the Superdog" is already slated to appear in later books this year. Some people love the idea, feeling it brings back all the richness of the Silver Age, now with better Modern Age writing; while others loathe it, seeing it as a betrayal of Byrnes thematically superior reboot, and the beginning of a reprise of Silver Age crap. Being the sentimental village idiot that I am, I kinda like the idea.
-
They make great contrasts though, don't they? Batman with his pragmatic outlook, and Superman with is idealistic one. Superman hopes for the good in mankind, Batman prepares for the worst. It's what makes their relationship so interesting. I will hold that of the Big Three, Batman is the only one interesting alone. Wonder Woman, and even to an extent, Superman, need Batman as a foil.
-
Sorry. For those of you who read my lenghty diatribe, I made an error: *Miller* is leaving "Adventure of Superman." *Mahnke* draws for "Action," and to my knowledge is not going anywhere. Sorry about the slip, we now return to your regularly scheduled Talkback.
-
But surely these people know that Loeb could write circles around Byrne any day of the week? I don't know...Loeb is really good at capturing a moment and making it decidedly un-cheezy. If fact, the whole idea of Jor-El wanting to go to great lengths to make sure that Clark is drawn to his human roots makes sense, but it's also seems contrived. Jor-El has been dead for a long time and should stay that way. It always bothers me when they constantly bring dead people backt to reek havoc on the present. But Krypto is venturing into pure silly-land. I bet Cormorant has a soft spot for Krypto, the sucker ;) Anyone else want to see Silver Banshee in the JLA cartoon? I do!
-
Jan 31, 2001 9:29:13 PM CST
I'd forgotten about that "Return to Krypton" storyline, Village_
by dave_f
There I was, ruminating over what modern DC writers might do with some of Superman's Silver Age elements...and they're just a week or so from doing it! Well okay, not quite. It *will* turn out to be some kind of hypertime story, of that I'm 100% certain. Modern continuity is entirely too popular for this to be more than a fun stunt. But no harm either. Unfortunately, the comic I'd like to see would just be a stand-alone Superman comic where certain Silver Age elements were true (excluding the silly stuff, like Krypto), and adventures would begin from that point. It would be a straight-up new take on Superman using some traditional elements. But that's not what "Return to Krypton" really is. From what I understand, it's about the *modern* Superman having to grapple with all that strange pre-Crisis baggage. But it's still a modern Superman story. Well, I probably won't get my wish until I submit a proposal to DC and through blackmail and intimidation get the greenlight to do it myself, but I will have to give "Return to Krpton" a peek. Those specific Silver Age trappings, like Jor-El's green and yellow outfit or the red and blue rocket that brings Kal-El to Earth...the don't actually mean anything to me, but they do evoke a bit of fun nostalgia for reading library reprints of that era when I was a kid. The stories sucked, but at least I was too dumb to know it then ;) Hope the writers make it a fun ride. I'd *like* to find a good Superman comic that's not the cartoon-based one - they just keep defying me!
-
Jan 31, 2001 9:55:14 PM CST
It's true, Batman and Superman are pretty much ideal contrasts i
by dave_f
Of course they didn't start out that way. Prior to that nutty, cuckoo "Crisis on Infinite Earths" and Frank Miller's "Dark Knight", they used to be the best of chums. There's a certain appeal to that camaraderie that all DC's heroes used to share, but the downside is that it could be boring as hell. That's why I hate "Star Trek: The Next Generation" - the entire bridge crew was essentially a pack of nodding yes-men, and the occasional attempt to suggest realistic friction rang false. My take on the modern Batman/Superman relationship is that sometimes writers do go too far to keep them estranged by their different methodologies, but as a whole, their friction is the great ideological clash among modern superheroes. It's an inspired post-Crisis evolution. That "World's Finest" comic I mentioned was right to play up their differences, and only failed because Dave Gibbons, mighty artist of "Watchmen" that he is, just utterly blows as a writer. Stick with the drawing, Dave! ****** As for Krypto...well, my favorite memory of the faithful hound relates to what Alan Moore did to him at the end of the famed "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" story. Why, I'd almost buy one of those plush Kryptos DC's putting out, just to re-enact that scene! "Aaaaoooooooo!"
-
Actually, my favorite rendition of Superman has to be the entertaindom.com "3-D" Superman "webisodes." So real. **** But seriously, the geeks at the DC comics message boards are very worried about "Return to Krypton." Superninja you're right, Jeph Loeb probably knows what he's doing, but a lot of these guys are taking this all very seriously. They're out for Loeb's blood. They want DC to perform a Loeb-otomy (did I say that? I didn't say that). Cormorant, I'm not so sure it will be a gimmick. Interestingly though, you say that the Silver Age trappings don't mean anything to you, but in the very same sentence, you state that they evoke fun nostalgia. Admit it, you find the prospect of a circa 1955 thinly characterized Superman with a freakishly and disproportionately large torso defying the laws of physics by pushing around celetial bodies, etc. undeniably appealing.
-
But it's more of a realistic approach. Clark is the only person outside of Batman's own universe that really understands Bruce. Batman, to me, is the father-figure of the JLA -- he's into tough love, but he cares enough to watch over them in case they run amok. I don't think even the current writers are leaning too heavily on Miller's Dark Knight storyline, although there are hints of it. And Batman understands Clark better than everyone else as well. In fact, I think they're like two brothers. Bruce takes after father and Clark has a more motherly approach. But one always watches out for the other. It's at the heart of the two characters, and it couldn't remain a Golden Age relationship forever.
-
Jan 31, 2001 10:25:05 PM CST
So a few months back I was reading this issue of, hmmm, I think
by dave_f
...and it showcased the first ever meeting between Superman and the Dick Grayson Robin. A "Year One" type of story. And Robin is bowled over by Superman, of course, and thinks he's the coolest guy in the world. Now, what I didn't like, what to me indicated *too* much of a distance between Bats and Superman, came about when Robin asks Batman about Superman later. Batman says something along the lines of, "He's not human, Dick. Never forget that." And to me, that's too estranged. I like that there will always be a sort of strain on their friendship because of their different methods, but like Superninja, I like to think these two guys can be almost as close as brothers. I'm annoyed when Superman tries to reach Batman in the comics at times, and Batman just dismisses him with a few terse words and swings off into the night. I suppose I'd just like to see them be able to talk to each other more openly. And GOOD LORD, it's bizarre to talk about the friendship of two fictional characters like this! Still, that's m'take. Come on guys, give us a hug!
-
I was typing my little Bats and Supes love letter, and I thought, "Who the @#$% am I talking about?" But it doesn't matter, because fictional characters become mythos, and I think these two qualify. They're embedded in our history...even people that don't know them as well as we do know who they are. For something to be embraced so widely means it is a touchstone for our culture. I'm sure there were Greeks and Romans sitting around talking about Hercules and Diana like we are now...maybe they were the geeks of their time, who knows? They're reflections of our own psyches (that's just my blather from reading From Hell earlier, perhaps). But as you know, there are bad writers and there are good writers, and sometimes those that are lesser gifted like to rely on things that are very simple...like setting Batman and Superman against each other. I actually like Frank Miller's premise of Superman becoming a government tool, but it's the far-reaching reality of what the character represents -- it's an extreme, just as Dark Knight is the extreme of Batman and I take it for what it is: Elseworlds, a land of extremes. In my mind, Batman loves Superman more than anyone else in the DC Universe. Batman to me, understands the importance of idealism and Clark's own desire to protect that ideal from corruption. They are truly brothers -- one dark, and the other light. That's the beauty of comics, they're open to interpretation by their readers.
-
Nooooo! Tim Daly was the best. The guy that did his voice in the recent Batman Beyond EP feature the JLA talks like someone's got him by the balls. Can I get a little bass? Is that so hard?
-
I can't give too many more details about the Braniac 13 ugrade because I'm just getting into things now, and everybody's talking about it in the past tense. From what I can figure, Braniac was trying to take over the city, and the upgrade was more or less a happy accident. Meanwhile, while Action 775 is now sending ripples through the comic book community, I do feel I need to throw in one caveat about my recommendation, especially for Cormorant: Some are comparing it a bit to Kingdom Come, and rightly so. Similar themes. If you are at all disturbed by the sight of Superman flipping out (or are a BIG Authority fan), maybe you should sit this one out.
-
I will believe a dog can fly, but I'm sorry, SuperMonkeys are where I draw the line.
-
Ok, there's a new superhero team out and about called "The Auth-" whoops!-make that "The Elite." Dirty, gritty, very powerful, and they have no problems killing bad guys. Naturally, this doesn't sit too well with Supes, and eventually, they all sit down over cake and ice cream and discuss their feelings, if you catch my drift.
-
Feb 02, 2001 4:20:16 PM CST
Actually Sleaze, the debate on this one seems to be seems to be.
by village idiot
. . .whether Action #775 is the "instant classic" that many people are claiming it to be, or whether it is just a Kingdom Come retread. Personally, I was pretty impressed with it, and thought it was better than Kingdom Come (which, despite Alex Ross's neat artwork, I thought was disappointing). Plus, Action #775 has a "blowed-up giant monkey" (a quote from the artist from the dc message boards) in the first few pages.
-
Feb 02, 2001 6:39:51 PM CST
"F" the cartoon network and their mindgames-they're spinning off
by arcturus
Really, having a new Justice League on the Cartoon network won't make up for the fact that all their cool retro shows are going to that crap "Flashback" network that only a few a-holes in New York and LA will be able to get. If not for the Thundercats I wouldn't be watching the Cartoon network right now as it is...
-
In my previous post decribing Superman comics, I said that someone named "Mattheis" wrote for "Adventures of Superman." Mattheis? That should have been "J.M. Matteis," who just recently was discussed in a Talkback (i.e., the gay Captain America discussion). Since it was my second gaff in the message, it fairly obvious that I was working off a feeble memory while writing the post. Village Idiot and the entire Village Idiot staff regrets the error.
-
I dont really care just as long as they have Solomon Grande
Prime -
Great choice.
Look its basically this.
Guy was never a good GL.
Hal is the current Spectre.
Kyle is a too wet behind the ear (and no defining character).
They need a GL with experience and 1 that could bring additional material to the story writing process besides what kind of funky thing we can make with his ring this week. Kyle is not the best artist to write for. He is a mix of past Gl personalities including Jon.
And yes I think they need a token black.
But "Kyle is the coolest GL ever"
heh, heh he barely makes the top five. Please. You obvious never read any adventures of Jon as a GL and a Darkstar. He got a lot of character. And Jon is 2 in my book.
and kyle with Hal origin while entertaining in 1 shot superman was not work in continuity, I mean shit he worked for the daily planet ...how easy was that. it was a superman story.
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Whitney Houston 1963 - 2012 -- 209 total posts 207 posts
- AVENGERS enemy revealed as pink boardgame pieces... You might suffer some form of elation... SPOILERS!!! -- 160 total posts 97 posts
- There's a STAR TREK video game that is going to lead into JJ's STAR TREK 2 apparently... -- 144 total posts 77 posts
- Here's The Red Band Trailer For Drafthouse Films' THE FP! -- 68 total posts 68 posts
- New JUDGE DREDD post production footage pops up -- 67 total posts 67 posts
- Does ‘SNL’ Rhyme With ‘Deschanel’?? Learn Which SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE Vet Hosts After Sexy Zooey!! -- 64 total posts 60 posts
- To Commemorate The 3D Release Of STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE, George Lucas Wants You To Know...Greedo Shoots First!! -- 480 total posts 55 posts
- HANNA's Saoirse Ronan to boss around seven little people -- 53 total posts 50 posts
- Friday Brings SWEEPS DAY NINE!! Gab Here About Tonight’s FRINGE!! Plus Einstein on TIM, Wiig On PORTLANDIA, MAHER, CLONE, GIFTED, GRIMM, SPARTACUS, SUPERNATURAL, GOLD RUSH And More!! -- 118 total posts 32 posts
- SPACE 2099!! -- 182 total posts 27 posts