Cool News
Herc takes an eyeball to BUFFY
Hey folks, Harry here... Right now, Hercules is planning a whole series of 'accidents' we'll call them for the various members associated with the Hollywood Foreign Press. You see, Hercules knows that the best thing on television was BUFFY and ANGEL and neither got jack or sh*t last night. Though... it seems he is coping with this. He's eating his figs (keeps the ol chap regular wink wink) and relaxing while watching another of what he feels is an incredible BUFFY.... Tune in....
BUFFY 5.12 FAQ
WHAT’S IT CALLED?
“Checkpoint.”WHO’S RESPONSIBLE?
Teleplay is credited to Team Whedon big guns Douglas
Petrie and Jane Espenson. Petrie wrote this season’s
Spike-centric “Fool For Love." Espenson wrote
“Triangle,” which featured the ill-mannered
Viking-like troll.WHAT DOES TV GUIDE SAY?
“Buffy and company get a visit from the Council of
Watchers, who possess insight into who (or what) Glory
is. Unfortunately, they’re less than forthcoming with
the crucial information.”ANY GOOD?
More than good.ARE THE WATCHERS PROPERLY HUMBLED?
No, they’re more arrogant and bastardly than ever, and
convincingly threaten to have Giles deported back to
England forever if Buffy fails to do their bidding.HOW MANY WATCHERS COME TO SUNNYDALE?
Seven by my count, including Quentin Travers (Harris
Yulin), whom we haven’t seen since 3.12.ARE THE FEMALE WATCHERS AS HOT AS THAT FAKE FEMALE
WATCHER FROM SEASON THREE?
Pretty much.IS THIS A FUNNY ONE?
There’s a sub-plot about Anya trying to hide her demon
background from the watchers. It pays off hilariously
with a throwaway gag in the episode’s final scene.THE BIG NEWS?
All SORTS of big news this episode. Most of the
really juicy stuff comes out in the episode’s final
minutes. LIKE WHAT?
We learn what Glory is!IS SHE SATAN?
No.IS SHE DEMON?
No.IS SHE SEEN THIS WEEK?
Yes. And she seems to have acquired a second Dreg.DO YOU STILL LIKE GLORY?
I love Glory! She’s complex! And makes me laugh!IS BEN THE EVIL INTERN BACK?
He is.HAVE YOU FORMED NEW THEORIES ABOUT HIM?
I suspect Ben wants the key also – but where Glory
wants to use it, Ben wants to see it destroyed.DO WE LEARN WHAT THE KEY OPENS?
No.IS BUFFY STILL HEARTSICK?
A bit. She can be spotted at one point molesting one
of Riley Finn’s old sweaters.HOW’S SPIKE?
Almost back to his snotty old self (a great relief
after his trance-like demeanor in the troll episode)!
It looks like he’ll
be playing a more prominent role
during the balance of the season.LAST WEEK’S TV GUIDE LISTING FOR THE “BUFFY” RERUN
INDICATED THAT GLORY “TRAVELS THROUGH TIME TO LAND ON
THE SLAYER’S DOORSTEP…” IS GLORY A TIME TRAVELER?
I suppose it’s not too hard to infer from Glory’s
behavior that she’s from a different era -- though,
presumably, not a future one.THERE’S SOMETHING ELSE YOU’RE DYING TO TELL US, ISN’T
THERE, HERC?
Suffice it to say this episode has a GREAT ending
which ties up some longstanding loose ends in a very
entertaining fashion. Summation would NOT do it
justice.BEST XANDER LINE THIS EPISODE?
“That was excellent!”TELL US HOW TO SQUANDER OUR TUESDAYS, O HERCULES!
The WB’s “Buffy” at 8:00; the WB’s “Angel” at 9:00;
and MTV’s “Road Rules/Real World Challenge” at 10:00.
Tape ABC’s “The Mole”
at 8:00 and Fox’s “Dark Angel”
at 9:00. HERC’S RATING FOR “BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER” 5.12?
***1/2
The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:
**** better than most motion pictures
*** actually worth your valuable time
** as horrible as most stuff on TV
* makes you quietly pray for bulletins
I will pillage the lands and dwellings of the
Hollywood Foreign Press Association!!!! I will burn
their crops and freely remind readers that they’re the
same group of cabdrivers, waiters and respectable
full-time journalists who gave Pia Zadora a Golden
Globe for her work in “Butterfly!”
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Now if only i could possibly care!
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ok i think at the end of the season there will be a massive ruck with buffy and glory. while buffy`s getting her ass kicked the scoby gang is doing some kind of spell 2 get the powers out of dawn. then when buffys about 2 die riley and spike turn up and save the day. wouldn`t it be cool if angel were 2 turn up 2 help buffy and he and riley would have 2 work 2gether 2 save buffys life. just a thought.
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Why be first if you have nothing to say? The ep. swings...the watcher's council gets a dose of reality, Giles becomes well financially. The gang learns just where they stand. We learn who or what Glory is. I think this girl has a good future in the entertainment industry. Spike learns what Buffy thinks of him...that's a lot for one ep...and we get some good laughs. I'm not sure what else one could want, but I'm sure the stock bellyachers will inform us ...loudly. I love my BUD and the access to early transmissions.
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Argh! The fact that I have to wait an extra three hours to see this Buffy is just plain upsetting. That fact that I wasn't able to set my VCR myself is just plain unsettling. I will have to wait with anticipation, as I drive home tonight, to see weather or not I recorded Buffy or if there was some error and my Buffy-Angel tapes were polluted with crap like "The Mole". And while I'm thinking about it, Herc, what is up with your reality-tv obsession? I mean, do you just have a thing for weak voyerism in game-show trappings? What's the deal? ... Ah well, perhaps it's something that we mortals were not supposed to know...
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or canoe as the case may be. I too have to tape Angel an Buffy (film festival -NO NOT THE BIG TRENDY ONE IN UTAH) and hope the tape isn't polluted with 'the Mole'. I WAS however able to set it myself but did find the whole experience unsettling. ALSO Road Rules, Mole reality TV SUCKS. I say lets see Bill and Hillary on Temptation Island then I'll watch. Now this episode sounds GREAT! They need to get into the Glory stuff the way Angel is into Darla now. I DON'T think Angel or Riley will 'rescue' Buffy in the season finale she is a do it herself kinda girl. I think Ben and Glory are two sides of the same coin... I think there will be more twists alla the Dawn revelation before all is said and done. I think there is more (or hope) to this whole thing. Hopefully no zombie cyber GI joes... All in all some good writers working on it so I hope they get the focus going more on this season and Glory.
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Nuff Said
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question i thought this was called buffy the VAMPIRE slayer. the big bad hasn`t been a vampire since season 2. i think next season there should be a big vampire whos the big bad. lots of love dougal
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Jan 23, 2001 8:51:48 AM CST
Why would I possible infuse my VCR with crap like Dark Angel and
by smugbug
BTVS and Angel enlighten my VCR. So I tape them as I watch 'em, too. Well, as much for my boyfriend as myself and future watching to see what I missed during my initial viewing. And Golden Globes suck donkey doo for not allowing SMG the Best Actress nod. So there.
And Tom Hanks for Cast Away? Ang Lee as Best Director made up for that major boo boo. -
I was thinking, Buffy is supposed to have survived longer than any previous slayer, maybe her powers are growing and she is moving beyond vampires and is more able to tackle bigger Bads. Taking on Vampires seems almost easy to her now (excpet for the one earlier in the season that unexpectedly stabed her) But still, how can the big bad be a vampire and still be interesting? What Vampire could be worse than the ones she has already dealt with? Darla? Who?
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Jan 23, 2001 9:34:42 AM CST
Buffy/Angel first time ever both are excellent in same night?
by chambers
Title says it all. Buffy finally has a really good show, and Angel follows up with his new "Parker," persona excellently. He pulls off a scam worthy of Donald Westlakes great antihero. If the "new," Angel is Parker or a Dark Bats, I hope he stays. Last nights episode was Rockin.
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Dare I say that the sorry writing and deplorable acting outway the general hottiness of The Dark One?
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We'll see if the writing is sharp enough to pull it all together. Most of the EPs this year have been good concept w/ lackluster delivery. But "Fool For Love" was the best episode of the season. Hope the writer brings the same kind of energy to tonight's EP. Looking forward to it, but I REALLY can't wait for Angel. Angel review wanted!!!!
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See if I can do the same type of gay Hercules FAQ with no real answers....Whats it called: "Blood Money," Who is responsible: Sean Ryan and Mere Smith. Smith wrote last weeks episode. What does TV Guide say: Hell if I care. "Is it any good?" Yes, unbelievably so. "Whats up with the Bat Gang?" Well they try to fight the good fight and work on getting a new office and a name for their firm. They fight a big monster in the sewer. "Does Angel take the fight to W&H?" Yes he does, in a big, bad way. He is stalking them all and taking nasty photos of them searching for ways to hurt the firm. "How do Lindsey and Lilah handle sharing the same position?" Not too well, Lilah allows Lindsey to make too dangerous of decisions and it may come to bite them both. "Does the little geek/demon return again?" Yes Merl who reappeared last week after weeks on hiatus is back as Angel's little ear to the underground. "So, Chambers, is the new Angel a Dark Bats?" No, well maybe. He is more like Donald Westlakes' amazing "Parker," (see Porter in Payback but without a care in the world, meaning no hooker to love). Parker was amazing at getting revenge and pulling off major setups. While last week we saw the hitman style of Parker in Angel, this week we see the scheming side. To say the least it is just as cool! "Do we see Darla or Drue?" Nope this is an Angel vs W&H episode. "Chambers rating for Angel:" 4 stars. This version of Angel's personality is going to be wild fun. Oh boy Oh boy! and last "Ok so does Lindsey start to counter the new Angel?" He tries...
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Although I'm not as disappointed as most others are with this season of Buffy I must say that least weeks episode put me to sleep twice. It was terrible.
But now I'm really excited about tonight! I love when loose ends get tied up!! -
I must say that for the first time in a long while, I enjoyed it. Whedon & Co. are back on track and the revelation as to what Glory truly is, is a concept that I have been waiting to see in the Buffyverse for a long fucking time.
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I like seeing Angel go dark but not evil, and was really surprised when he torched Dru and Darla last week. This week he gets to talk, though, which will be nice. Boreanaz obviously has grown as an actor since his "Buffy" debut. "Angel" is pretty good stuff right now. Too bad the supporting characters (except for Gunn) just aren't very interesting.
On another topic: Chambers, what's with you? Why do you call Herc's reviews "gay"? For that matter, when something is kind of lame or stupid, why do today's young morons feel the imperative to label that thing "gay"? Gay is about love and sex, Chambers, not about foolishness or stupidity. I guess your conception of the world and language arts skills are, as you might say, pretty fucking gay. -
Her statement to E!Online being that if they switch networks, she won't stay onboard. I wonder if it's an attempt on her part to get out of the show unscathed by pretending loyalty to WB. I can see why she would be loyal to them. Someone care to explain?
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No, Gay is not about love and sex. It is about abnormal behavior, and nature gone wrong. Gay is a typical adjective used for something being stupid. It is also an adjective for being happy. You paranoid queers need to stop taking everything so personally.
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Oh look, a sad, intolerant, homophobic bastard. Just what talkback needs. Appologies for wasting everyones bandwidth
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Look someone who can't understand sarcasm! Just what talkback needs! If you can't see the sarcasm for the above information I am sorry. It was all sarcastic except for the "paranoid queers," part. For some unknown reason they all have little problems with people using English correctly. Gay can mean "disollute," which I think covers Herc's Buffy Faqs. They are descriptions of him giving in to his pleasures from watching SMG and other teen queens. His reviews lack anything substantial besides a teenage boy who gets excited watching the likes of SMG and Gilmore Girls. Forgive me for attacking a moron who claims I don't know the use of the word gay, and being presumptious he attacked me from his inner paranoid feelings that everyone is out to belittle his gay community. Have a nice day.
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Hey all I found a cool website and they are giving away The Buffy Season 3 Box Set
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Oops, I forgot the URL. It's beleow
Hey all I found a cool website and they are giving away The Buffy Season 3 Box Set. Check out this site, EclipseMagazine.com (http://www.eclipsemagazine.com) -
I forgot to set my VCR! Crap. Crpa. Crap. I'm at work all night, so if anyone wants to post a nice spoiler filled review after the show airs....
Anyone? Please? -
I know the definition of Dissolute. I find Herc's faqs to be Dissolute. He loves shows that are all about his obsessions with pretty girls. I don't have time to write a disertation about his faqs. I simply stated hey, I'm going to do my best in copying his gay style. Then JQuick decided to correct my use of English, incorrectly. So I popped off sarcastically to what was obviously a paranoid rant caused from Quick's lack of self (or in this case culture) esteem. So I corrected him on how I used the term "gay," correctly. Then Phazer jumped me for not seeing my sarcasm. The sarcasm was in the Dr. Joyce like statement. It was just as silly a response as JQuicks. In addition dissolute has everything to do with homosexuality. Since the word means lacking moral restraint. Homosexuality is historically and in the catholic church especially 'immoral,' as are many acts most of us partake in. The term gay also can mean dissolute. This term was used to describe homosexuals as an immoral culture. The gay community took to the name in spite. So don't try and give me definitions of anything. Yes my statement was rude, but it was just as rude as JQuick in jumping to conclusions that I was belittling his little community. I'm glad you liked the review. In the future I will try not and do so while attacking Hercules who thinks people like yourself and I were fooled into liking Angel.
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....might she be an extraterrestrial? Just a thought.
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I would add to Sleazy G's comments that the reason so many gay men are "dissolute" is because society's telling them they are makes them believe they are, so they go out and strive to be that way. It's really sad how brainwashable so many people are. A big part of that problem is that the society we live in deliberately socializes people to believe what they're told. Note for instance the way so many people believe that if something is said to be a certain way "on TV", then that's the way it HAS to be! (The character of Homer Simpson is an great if rather ham-fisted parody of this uniquely American phenomenon.)
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What a great way to set up the rest of the season. Whedon strikes once again.
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Jan 23, 2001 6:21:58 PM CST
I love Buffy and Chambers is an idiot and anyone else who thinks
by cooper2000
First of all, I have to get this off my chest..Chambers youre a fuck and I'm not affraid to admit it.Why are you here. Your comments just put us all back about 60 years. Someone ban him please...if thats possible.
Now to the point, I havent seen Buffy yet but it sounds great and its about time things get moving.
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I LOVED this ep! And now I'm watching a new Angel! Yay! Anyways, I have thought for the longest time that there needs to be a Slayer-Watcher May-December romance here sometime. SMG and ASH are just wonderful together. And yay for the Scoobs! I still don't think this season is as good as last season, (I liked the Initiative sans Adam) but I do like some of the subplots.
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That Anne is in fact Lily from Buffy season 3 episode 1 "Anne", who adopts the name from Buffy, who is using her middle name as an alias. She was also in the Season 2 episode with all the vampire worshipers, I believe her name in that episode was Chantelle or Chantarelle.
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enough verbal masturbation I have a couple of real points/questions. FIRST was Anne on Angel last night the same Anne (I believe it is ) from the episode where Buffy ran away after she killed Angel and in Season 3 episode 1 wqas a waitress and was recognized by this girl who she had rescued from a vampire cult in sunnydale who ran away to the city? That girl was helpless but by the end of the episode began showing that she didn't have to be dependent. She even helped fight the demons who ran the shelter for runaways! Then at the end Buffy leaves to go home and gives the girl her job and nametag ANNE! I am positive it is her anyone back me up??? Second whattya know I was right on Angel being the deciding factor in the 'apocalypse' which is a major plot point what do you guys think...also anyone else notice Angellus accent creep up???? and also on Buffy being caught in the middle of a much bigger war. So it seems one side wants dawn dead to stop Glory and Glory wants dawn period. KOOKY. This was the best 'continuity' episode this season I feel and those Knights were bad ass.
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People have lost the ability to read and understand what is being read. Sad indeed. First I stated all but the paranoid statement was 'sarcasm.'To describe 'gay,' being about love and sex is just as sarcastic imho (he certainly can't be serious about that being a definition of gay) as stating 'gay' is about about being abnormal. I used 'gay' correctly from the start, it has more meanings than the homosexual definition. Just like 'fag.' Then when I state what and why I am again misunderstood when it is written clearly. I in no way ever made any statement about it being immoral to be gay. I said it was commonly thought that. I stated 'especially for catholics,' but you will note I never stated MY feelings. In fact I stated that catholics label most things we do as immoral. Socially being homosexual for the most part is seen as immoral. Sad, but true. That is a statement of fact. That is why gay was originally used to describe homosexuals. Because society for the most part saw them as immoral. I never stated my own thoughts on the issue, I just stated facts. Again, I used the term 'gay,' correctly originally to describe my opinion of Herc's FAQs. It had nothing to do with homosexual behavior. Johnny Quick made that assumption and made another assumption that I didn't know English. I corrected him rather rudely with sarcasm. Then after Phazer jumped the gun, I stated rather simply my reasons, and that the statement of 'gay,' people being abnormal was said in sarcasm. I hope I don't have to define that. As for Angel, yes I realised it was the same girl after viewing it a second time. It was indeed the chick Buffy freed from the demon child slave zone in season 3.
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This storyline should at the very least add an interesting new dimension to the cosmology of the "Buffy-verse". Demons in the B-V are not supernatural beings at all (demons in traditional lore generally are), so it will be interesting to see how Buffy fares against an actual supernatural being.
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funny the Buffverse demons range from the peaceful yet massively powerful demon parents of Buffy's roomate to mere 'subspecies' mutant types like Angels new lacky and in my opinion awesome addition to the show. An for B- Since Glory seems to be some kind of energy vampire she is far from all powerful. seems to me like she sucks the sanity from people and if she doesn't get it she goes batty...which is why she needs Ben. Ben I think is part of her in the way that they are two sides to the same coin. thst why she said of course he is good looking. I think ben is the 'sane' part of her. He is still evil but there is a logic there like what he did with the patients. ALSO it looks like the new sect are evil Orthodox Christians...Knights of byzantium...odd. Buffy is gonna get Ottoman on their ass!
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Jan 23, 2001 9:21:55 PM CST
Does anyone else want to see the demon-informant-guy show?
by superninja
That guy is funny. Name escapes me right now, but he stole a few scenes tonight. Amazing when people can act behind a mask.
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On Angel, Anne was actually Lily from Buffy season 3 ep 1 "Anne", she adopted the name from Buffy, who was using her middle name as an alias. She was on Season 2 episode "Lie to Me", she was one of the vampire worshippers. Nice to see the return of this recurring character, maybe she can continue to show up now and then. Now if they could just de-rat Amy.
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The entire purpose of life is to reproduce and die. If you are lucky, you do something people remember you for. In the end, your whole purpose is to further the species. Homosexuals cannot do this, and are thus, defective.
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I would've thought it could be e cooler if she was somehow the first Slayer who went mad. Oh well...that's just sort of coming out of me arse. A god, eh? Well, one of the "old" cough*cough*removing*dust gods. Not that impressive to me. That's some serious "comic book villain out of me arse" writing. Of course, my friends told me she was a god, and I was withholding judgement, hoping it was something more creative...still withholding judgement, I guess. But that doesn't dismiss the fact that the chick is a terrible actress. In other news, Buffy telling the Watchers what's-what was fantastic. All the interviews were pretty cute and funny, and SPIKE RULES THE WORLD. I can't wait to see how Spike handles living with her family, and what's going to go down when Joyce dies. She will. I just feel it. After all, they both like Passions!
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Stop the homophobe comments. Please. You're much too stupid to affect an opinion either way.
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Two words, oh & yeah. They toss in a few new subplots (the sacred order af blablablabla) and actually give us some resolution with the watcher's council. This particular subplot's been going on for a long time. I'm just pleased, that's all. And for the other subject that seems to have captured the minds of us talkbackers. Homosexuals. The devil's spawn or the neighbors with the good lawn? As a bonafide homosexual, here are my two cents. I don't really care about what you think about my lifestyle. I don't care if you think I'm going to hell. I don't care if you think I'm am addition to the rich tapestry of life. The good thing is that I extend the same courtesy to you. My sole concern is for equal protection under the law. There. That's the entire gay rights movement summed up in a short sentence. If you disagree with my lifestyle, well, rock on with your hetrosexual self. Just don't expect me to care about your opinions about me. Word up.
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Okay Buffy fans, informal poll here: am I the only one who thinks the quippy dialogue is getting pretty stale? Aside from the fact that the Big Bad of this season is quite lame thus far, I think the dialogue is my main gripe. I mean, I remember getting laughs, *good laughs*, out of "Buffy" in times past. Now I get two or three chuckles per episode and the rest of the humor seems recycled. It's that stuttering, nervous humor that I'm particularly starting to hate, and it was out in full force while the Watchers Council interrogated the Scooby Gang. I think I'd call it...maybe 80% unfunny. Am I just being cranky or does anyone else have that same reaction? I honestly think they need to start shifting away from that high school humor and begin evolving a new style of humor for the show. The "yuk yuk, those vampire hunters are just goofy kids!"-stuff just wears on me. Example: Willow and Xander are both maturing and in normal relationships, so why do their lighter moments still involve nervous stumbling over words like it was season one all over again? I'm not saying they should suddenly become totally self-assured or lose all vestiges of their goofy old personalities, but dammit, they need to evolve. The show itself needs to evolve. Hunh. I was gonna get into some of the stuff I liked about the episode, but a rant came on so I'll leave it at that. Anyone agree? Disagree? Want to talk about Batman?
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Jan 24, 2001 2:00:14 AM CST
And as long as I'm ranting...HARRY, WILL YOU EVER FIX THE MOTHER
by dave_f
Seriously, man. Just tell us you've got some top guys working on it and I'll relax. It kills...IT KILLS...any attempt at having a decent dialogue here. And isn't that one of the main draws of AICN, that interraction? You're killing it, man.
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Basically, you take a drink anytime Buffy strokes Dawn's hair with sisterly compassion. Dammit, I know it didn't happen in last night's episode, but it happens like 15 or 16 times in the average one! Don't tell me I'm wrong!
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A bunch of posts are all over the place concerning the term 'gay' and 'fag'. As concerns 'fag' the last definition in the dictionary gives reference to 'homosexual males'. However, the first definition is 'to work hard and become tired'. After several other explanations of that definition, the reference to male homosexuals is given. The second listing of the word is the definition I grew up using 'a cigarette'. Of course that is listed as 'old slang'. Since I have kids in their thirties, I count myself amongst the older posters here. As for 'gay'. Its first definition is the one I grew up with 'impetuous, akin to joyous and lively; merry; happy; lighthearted. Also bright and/or brilliant...given to social life and pleasures. there are two more separate definitions with the homosexual one being the last one listed.
When the fellow referred to Herc's review as gay, he was correct in that it is bright and in some respects colorful. However, to jump on the felows comments and scream about his homosexual feelings/statements et al, says more about the complainer than it does about the original poster. As he said, "Learn English, before you rant about someone's statements, written or for that matter spoken and context." -
Jan 24, 2001 6:34:36 AM CST
Unlike Antony with Caesar, I come neither to bury "Buffy" or to
by i am_notreal
...the appeal of this show is completely lost on me, but that shouldn't impact anyone else's ability / right to enjoy it. NOTE TO ALL FLAMERS WITH FINGERS POISED OVER KEYS, READY TO FIRE: Re-read that last part. *I* don't get it. Doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't or that there's even anything wrong with it. Just don't get why "Buffy" seems to be the genre show of choice, yet the still-potent "X Files" gets nada. "X" is better this season--even if the Mulder/Scully foot-dragging--than it has been in years. Hell, if someone could work out a way for me to see the X eps a day or so early I'd write a kick-butt preview for AICN for free, zippo, nothin'. And oh by the way, I'm not related to Chris Carter or anyone else on the show and I don't work for FOX, home the oddly fascinating in a train wreck sorta way "Temptation Island."
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Jan 24, 2001 6:37:43 AM CST
sleazy G a word on masturbation and the Knights and B oh and Cor
by sundown
actually that WAS more info... mental note never use G's keyboard. Actually looking back I miss-wrote...I wanted to get your attention about the various Buffy points I didn't mean to single you out as the originator of the ever annoying Gay/insert derrogatory comment about homosexuals here string. ALTHOUGH my attempts to steer the conversation elsewhere have failed worse than Gilligan on a stormy night. Anyways can you give me a quick reminder about the Willow ref in Angel I think I caught it but can't remember for sure... And season 3 episode 1 was on that list I sent G of my fave episodes thats how I remember Anne and that episode had dark and humor balanced PERFECTLY! Also I don't know if you've seen the "Knights of Byzantium" wish I had my echo chamber, but they look cool enough and have a compelling arc that goes against B but isn't evil...so to me thats major original to the show lately. Most of the villains for the last 2 seasons have been 2 dimensionsal... Corm- well Bat aside ( I stick to my thoughts on Killing Joke) the dialog in B is still pretty good I think. Its not as wickedly funny but its not as annoyingly goofy as it was at th start of the season. I think the stumbling over words in this ep wasn't simply kid stuff but a sign of the Watchers really taking the gang to task as we have seen they haven't been all that useful for the last season and this episode solidified them. Also Willow and Tara were able to finally openly admit what they are which is a big step and that coupled with the strides Xander and Willow have made will make for a tighter nit more useful adult like gang. SO I think there is advancement there and its handled well. My main gripe is that they took to long to get to this point. I think Danw much like the dude who played Adam is a good actor she has just been shorted on time. They wasted a lot on the Riley and go nowhere Mom subplots. Angel simply hit a home run every time. I think with the Knights and Ben and Glory we now have a cool main story going. Buffy is redefined finally after Angel leaving I like her again (she was annoying both before after and during Riley...to me it seemed like a forced love like she was out to prove she could after Angel) and her gang has a solid role. They will meet the baddies head on and it could be cool. Last not on Glory I get a sort of Faith vibe from her and like Adam she has good timing and stuff...the only thing is Adam was underutilized and given a lame hook...I hope Glorys plan and her time and use on the show are handled better. thst what Joss needs to worry about. Other than that I thought the episode was atleats a triple...maybe a home run. Well I gotta go find armor so I can run around in my Knights of Byzantium get up... wow B caught between a rock and a hard place...I like it!
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Jan 24, 2001 6:43:36 AM CST
Mr Touchdown you watch Temptation Island no need to flame you've
by sundown
actually I just gave up on Xfiles three seasons ago. Will Scully and Mulder bang or not? Will Wolvie get his claws back? Who is the X-traitor? Um Alex I'll take plot lines that dragged on to the point I don't care anymore for 500... Carter is a one trick poney who can't pull the trigge ron a story if his life depended on it. Look at that movie. The season finale answered more questions. I just got sick of looking for the answers which in the end were unsatisfying. Black goo aliens and other nonsence. pishaw give me an ass kicking chick who is funny and well written and villains like Angel and the mayor. That episode I mentioned earliar 3.1 kicks MOST 'action' films asses including X files. Of course thats just my opinion...
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Okay, Buffy has seemed a little off-the-tracks lately, mainly because Glory hasn't really seemed like a threat. Last night, Whedon and his crew began to fix that. Glory finding Buffy's home, seeing Dawn without knowing what she was, and threatening Buffy's family at last puts some real fear into the works. Still, it's not enough. Who the heck is Ben? What does he bring to the plate, and why do we care? I can guess he's behind the Knights of Nudnick or whatever trying to destroy the key, but his subplot is still moving way too slowly. And Glory shouldn't disappear again. Disappearing is death, and frankly just talking about her is cheap. We need to SEE her DOING her evil to the heroes. I fear for Joyce, she seems like the most in danger of being killed(unless Tara's days are numbered). As for the Watchers, about time we finally see them again and I hope we see more of them from now on.******And Angel! Well, I want to see Lindsey beat Angel but good now. I actually like him more. He's more sympathetic. Angel is an asshole. He has no right to be such a self-righteous jerk all the time. He's been given how many chances for redemption, but when Lindsey talked to him in "Blind Date" he's all "hey, you're evil so up yours!" Angel was a drunk then a monster then a drunk again until he sees a girl he's hot for. Meanwhile Lindsey, a poor kid who had to climb his way to success by going to Evil Inc., only to turn on them when they try to kill children, seems like a more fitting candidate for redemption than Angel ever did. Also, I read Boreanaz saying a new villain from Angel's past was coming, one who would "shake things up" I think were his words. I don't get that. We have Darla, we have Dru, and then there's two very interesting characters in Lindsey and Lilah. There's tons that can happen with these people. We don't need some contrived villain from the past (unless he/she is one of the Senior Partners). I also hope we really have seen the last of Blue Boy McGraw or whatever his name was. He felt so random and pulled-out-of-the-arse. He waited decades after letting Angel go and now all of a sudden he wants a rematch? Stupid and dull. Maybe he was the guy Boreanaz meant and it was just for that one episode. Meanwhile, more of Lily("Anne") and demon photoguy please! With the exception of the Demon Karaoke singer who looks like the Return of the Joker, I'm loving the supporting charcters on Angel. Strange that the actual regulars have turned so bland. Gunn was cool, then he became a regular and suddenly it's like they domesticated him or something.
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gotta say I've agree with you on Angel and Lindsey but the thing is I like bad guys and Angel is the baddest. I like the fact Lindsey isn't a stupid pushover like his partner though. I disagree on Gunn I just think he is more comfortable. So he dropped the tough guy act but he is still a bad ass. The guy never really had friends and was always taking care of his now dead sister os making him light for a time is fine to me. Angel is dark enough...now the villain from Angels past- lets see W&H want him evil, he is well on his way, when I said accent creeping in Sleazy G I meant that English? accent he had when he was Angellus seems to creep in now an then, could it be the returning villain and shocking twist Boreanez talked about is the RETURN OF ANGELLUS!!! Makin the hero evil for the first half of next season would kick ass. I hope thi sis the case as I like Gunn Wes and Cordy and want to see them fight Angellus. Oh and Faith who HE redeemed and the lady cop he saved all have to now save Angel...could be cool. But this might be *too* over the edge. Whether its Angellus or another villain it will be cool I have no doubt... oh and MORE demon lackey! great episode from Angel...
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who is this guy in real life? his voice sounds very familiar and he's funny as hell!
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who is this guy in real life? his voice sounds very familiar and he's funny as hell!
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BUFFY: I brought the same point up earlier this season. A particular EP had them sitting all around the table and exchanging "witty" aka "canned" banter and I wondered how the show could go on if something didn't change. In all honesty, I don't care about any of Buffy's supporting cast except for Giles, Spike and her family. She could get all new Scoobs and not a tear would fall from me eye. As for the Knights I DEFINITELY agree with the Ben connection. He's leading them to destroy the key, absolutely. It's like dancing with the devil, considering Ben's true nature. With the key gone, Glory will have to chill out and devise new schemes, giving Ben some rest. As for the knights themselves -- BOOOORRRING. The fight scene set it up cool, but the Teen-Beat knight didn't scare me too much with his big talk. Bad casting. Why can't they get someone with a little edge to them? It's the small things that make the difference to me. Glory FINALLY did something interesting by going after Buffy's family. She's going to kill Joyce, so get ready folks. A better EP than most this season.****ANGEL: Well, this show beats Buffy all over the place. Angel's new attitude is much more interesting. Playing that poor woman running the shelter so he could get the goods on Wolfram. The demon bounty-hunter DID seem out-of-the-arse at FIRST, but I will contend that by the end of the show it makes perfect sense since the whole thing was a setup by Angel! I kind of like how Cordy/Gunn/Wesley are coming along, but I see the potential for some majorly stale characters if they don't hone in on it real quick. Gunn is the obvious field leader, but he needs to learn research. Wesley needs to train to be in the field. Cordelia also needs training in both areas. Can we see some of this? They're not taking it seriously enough, and I know they were played for laughs in last night's ep, but that will get old. We don't need another bunch of tired Scoobies. We need a solid group of people that will train as hard as they can to take over the reigns and even take out Angel. I know it's a dark show, but Cordelia and Wesley could use a little edginess. And IF Angelus is the big bad at the end of the season -- I say hurrah. Let his former teammates feed him a little humble pie. But here's another thought -- WHAT IF ANGEL BECOMES HUMAN AND HE'S DIRTY 'OL LIAM? Liam was quite a bastard, I think we could all agree. Lindsey continues to be one of the most dynamic characters on the show, and Lilah is a good match to keep him on his toes, but he's the stronger character.
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I have to disagree about liking Lindsey more than Angel. Lindsey is an important aspect of the show, because it showed him one step ahead of Angel from the get go. He was already relishing in his dark side. Then he couldn't kill the kids. He never made the assumption that he was turning his back on W&H totally. He just didn't want to see the kids hurt. After that episode we watched Lindsey STOP caring. Then we watched him become obsessed with Darla and killing Angel. Angel is just now starting to relish in his darkside, and is just now trying to STOP caring. "Blood Money," was massively important and cool because Angel was in control the whole time. He set up Merl to leak information so he could one up the co-VPs. He and Boone were in it together the whole time. When Lindsey and Lilah think they have it all figured out, all they believe is what Angel wanted them to believe. He scammed them. He pulled a sting operation on them and it worked beautifully. If Mark Rolston as Boone is the new player in town that could be interesting. Rolston is an accomplished actor and may very well be able to bring alot to the show. I think we will see more of Merl (Played by Matthew James from the Mummy, Canadian Bacon) too. I think Angel is going to find out the W&H plan of having Angel on their side for the Apocolyps and his response will be one they nore anyone would sanely expect. He will try and incite the Apacolypse... I just like Angel right now more than any other character on TV. He has always had this 'dark, evil' past and he has always had strength but shied away from the darkness. That fake guru may have enlightened him in the end. This new Angel who strives on his darkness is a refreshing form of television. ------Buffy needs some house cleansing further. Riley is gone, its time for some more cleaning up. The problem with last nights episode was when Xander said 'It was just the 3 of us,' was so dead on. Then Oz, Cordelia was added. Then Riley, Tara, Spike, Anya, Dawn, Buffy's mom. The credits used to be SMG, Brendon, Hannigan, Carpenter, Head. That is 5 people. Now you have the 4 core, anya, dawn, spike, and until recently Riley. The show has become congested with too many characters. With Buffy's mom getting story lines now besides the one episode robotic boyfriend we are missing out on other character development. There just isnt enough time to cover everyone well. Xander and Willow are getting less and less screen time. Angel isn't having that problem with only 4 people the show rotates around. The 4th was just added this season. Glory needs to stick to her word and needs to start knocking off those that Buffy cares about. I'm all for Anya,Tara, and Buffys mom to end up as Glory kills. If Whedon had the balls to knock off that much for some real chaos that would be the ultimate in cool television. Here is to hoping he widdles the numbers down to a more watchable unit. Subplots on one character can take weeks to unravel now, and honestly the show is turning into a soap.
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The whole thing about the apocalypse and Angel being a key player: We've known that since To Shanshu. Do they REALLY know anything, or are they just struggling along like the Watcher's Council on Buffy? What were they trying to accomplish in bringing Darla back other than to play on Angel's emotions and control him through her? Apparently, there is no big, intricate plan there after all. I would like Lindsey to clean house of the senior partners and take over the firm. In fact, I predict Lindsey and Angel have a temporary truce and work together to permanently remove the senior partners from power. Angel is after Wolfram & Hart -- he's not after Lindsey. To him Lindsey is just a pawn like he is. He has grudge but he is after the mysterious senior partners who are pulling the strings.
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first the demon is the guy from the Mummy and Deep Rising (comic lackey) and now wouldn't that be a buzzkill for Angel he finally becomes human and just as his personality changed as a vamp his human personality is a prick. That would suck. But it would be a nasty twist. I'm not sure if his accent came back in but I could swear from time to time there would be a faint hint of it. KoB soldier was a might bit dorky for a bad ass. My money is on the Ben Glory theory I posted above with them being the same being an that explaining her 'of course he's cute' comment and the sanity issue and her feeding off of sanity. Don't forget she is vain. A tarantinoish stand off in the end would be different and could make this more interesting. Ben, Glory, Watchers, KoB and the scoobs. Glory wants Dawn and KoB want her dead. Isn't it odd how Buffy failed at the test when it came to protecting something? Ben might actually lie the Slayer which could complicate things... Overall I think they finally made a stride with Glory but this could still go the way of the intiative if they don't have a good climax planned.
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Prediction: The Knights will turn on Ben/Glory and refuse to kill the key. When Buffy let him go, his face showed obvious surprise and maybe the Knights will feel as if they've chosen the wrong side. Perhaps the Watchers also have an old relationship with the Knights as well. Perhaps like the Illuminati and the Knights Templar with their freemason connection.
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I said it sarcastically. Think about it. "Gay is about sex and love!" With a dry reply of "no, its about being abnormal and a freak of nature," or something along those lines. It is a nasty, mean, cruel comeback said in jest. I'm not a nice guy. I don't hate people with alternative lifestyles. The first person had the gaul to ASSUME I was both attacking Herc and his FAQ and his community in one statement. He is a paranoid queer. You don't know me, so don't try to judge me from a statement on here. First I did use the word "Gay," correctly. Herc reviews his shows, and he decided which are good with the wrong head if you catch my drift. Look up the definition think in all the contexts of the word, and you will see my statement made sense. Next, people still use the word in the states for other meaning besides homosexual. Sorry, its the truth. Unfortunately a new defintion will probably occurr as 'slang,' for stupid, that wasn't my attention. As for "no real answers," that is because Herc is just nuts. First Glory was satan in his mind, etc. I don't know where he gets his poorly thought out ideas. The seem rather childish, which again supports my theory about him and his FAQs. Now I feel I have to defend my statement of "paranoid queer," You see to me there are three forms of homosexuals: Those in the closet who truelly cant accept what they are, "paranoid queers," who are out, but haven't really accepted themselves yet and take any slight of reference as a sure fire attack on themselves, and last but not least gay men or women who are happy with themselves and treat others with respect. I have friends in the later category. They are much more rude than I am when it comes to 'paranoid queers,' etc. Spunksf is obviously a gay person who is happy with themself to give you an example. To think I have to explain myself to people again after stating it was 'sarcasm,' which it was. If you can't see how, accept my word that it was. It was not said as a serious statement of belief by me, it was said to smack JQuick's easily impressionable feelings. Sure that is rude, but hey im not a very nice person. Especially to those ignorant enough to think from the getgo on what I meant by a statement, that could have multiple meanings as being a worst case scenario. Point is this talkback should be about Buffy and Angel and instead it isn't fully. This will be my last post offtopic on the matter.
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Grrr...arrggh! Dark Horizons has a pic of the guy cast to play a teen Clark Kent. Two words: TOO PRETTY. Clark is a soft-spoken farm boy. That guy looks like something straight out of Details/GQ/whatever.****In other news, for all you comics fans, Dini & the JLA series for Cartoon Network is official! Yipee!!! That made my day...See how easy I am?
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First Buffy left me with that "Oh good grief" and "Oh crap!" feeling mixed into one. Let me see if I can figure something out here...Glory is a GOD who can't SEE through a stupid monk hologram that the DAMN KEY IS IN FRONT OF HER!! What kind of worthless god is SHE?? I mean, what other powers does she have other than drain peoples mind's to avoid going insane? I mean, THE SHADOW had more powers than this chick and he was an idiot! She also has a psycho obsession with nice clothes...what is she the GOD OF FASHION??? Maybe that's why she needs the key, it opens a new line of cosmetics!! HA, and Whedon thought he was smart. The "oh crap" feeling was knowing that either Spike or Joyce is going to die a horrid death and after the confession of love preview for Feb, I have this sick feeling that they are going to try and kill Spike. And to that I would say...WHY??? WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING EH?? Kill Joyce, Spike stay and Dawn can be dematerlized or vaporized or whatever the stupid key does! And why does the council know about A GOD but not about THE KEY? Isn't that very important information when trying to STOP a GOD? I mean, what books are they reading..GODS FOR DUMMIES?
As for Ben...either use him now or kill him now. And where did this Knights come from, it's suddenly a remake of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade!
As for Angel, a new hot chick is enough to keep me happy. Hope she's a regularly, and for crying out loud..somebody help Faith escape from prison!! -
the knight clearly states -knights of Byzantium- when B pins him. Also the order gets mussed up when someone is naughty. Me thinks Herc don't like criticism...
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Thank god for VCRs'. Oh boy - great ep. I have liked this season better than most. The reason being? This is BTVS's fourth year. It's somewhat a veteran show of sorts. Therefore they don't need to pull up great big huge action sequences ALL of the time - now is the time for some cerebral action. Soul searching. What, do you yahoos think a Slayer's day is spent killing demons and vamps ALL of the time? Now, this is Angel's second season and they need to grab hold onto us and begin their plots and subplots. And when you have a 200+ year old vamp as your leading character - its gonna be a little more action packed. I do love the Wolfram & Hart firm. Great villains. Even though I think Lindsay is sort of a hack and no real threat to Angel. I still believe Lilah can pull off the bigger evil deeds - and do it with more glee. Wow - good season so far for BOTH series.
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Chambers, I practice a more descriptive school of linguistics than you do, and thus note the(in my view)unfortunate and (again, in my view) moronic evolution of the word "gay" into a synonym for stupid, worthless, or simply worthy of derision. Checking the nearest unabridged dictionary at hand, which is from 1961, I find that even then the use of gay to mean dissolute or licentious was pretty low in the adjectival entry on the word, and not considered common usage. In the forty years since, this definition of the word has all but passed into antiquity. While some still use "gay" to mean happy or bright or brash, I cannot remember the last time I saw it applied in the way Chambers did.
Does this mean Chambers was wrong to use the word in the sense he did? No, of course not. However, when one writes in a forum peopled largely by adolescent male "film geeks" and their adult equivalents, one must expect words to be taken at their most common usage, unless one makes it clear this is not the case. Moving through the university campus where I work, I hear the word "gay" used in two senses at least 95 percent of the time, those being a synonym for homosexual and then in the derisive sense I've noted earlier.
As for rudeness, I'm sorry I was rude, and I apologize. Chambers, however, refuses to see his rudeness as a problem, and continues his rudeness by speaking of "my little community," as if all gays are part of some brotherhood and sisterhood (as many seem to think all blacks or hispanics are). It's not my little community. Even were I a homosexual male (as it happens, I am not), it would not be my little community. It's simply a fact of life, both human and nonhuman. Having seen two blatant displays of homophobia on this campus in the last two weeks (one by the presenter of a university sponsored "professional development institute" session, the other by the raving lunatics of the Westboro Baptist Church), I'm getting A BIT FUCKING TOUCHY, OKAY? Seeing friends and relatives kicked in the teeth and supposedly condemned to eternal torment because they love someone of the same gender can do that to you.
Now, a message for Harry: HARRY, GET SOMEONE TO FIX THE TALKBACK CODE! We want the damned entries to fall in chronological order based on universal time, not local time! And while you're at it, for the sake of our sanity and our eyes, stop running together all the paragraphs in our posts! Please!
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sleazy_G, you are saying everything i would want to say but without your true knack for the english language. your quite the word smith!! hehe, anyway just telling u i am 100% in agreement with you. baff
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DB and others have mentioned someone from Angels' past will show up in the second half of the season too. This is besides Darla/Drucilla. Boone was mentioned as a part of Angel's past so it could be he just beat the snot out of Boone and took the money. They might not have fought to the death. If Boone is not truelly evil, this could be the case. The only other person I can think of coming back would by Whistler or Doyle. Probably Whistler....what would he think of new Angel?
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Didn't notice the Wolf, Ram & Hart thing -- thanks.
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So, Johnny Quick, Fred Phelps and his looney Calvinist cult paid your campus a little visit, eh? That guy reminds of the character of Palpatine (the Emperor) from RETURN OF THE JEDI. He's certainly evil enough to merit the comparison! I'll bet that freak is a Scorpio with a Capricorn Moon. As for that business about the gay community, it always bugs me to hear that term because the truth is that the society in which we all live is so very socially atomized that there is no more of a "gay community" than there is a "straight community".
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Whistler was first introduced on Buffy in season 2 or 3. He is a demon. He dressed in 50s style clothing. He was the person who dragged Angel out of the gutter and showed him Buffy. Later he let Buffy know that she had a huge sacrifice to make and she had to send Angel to hell. Ofcourse we don't know what Whistler's motives were. He would be a very interesting person to return.
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Jan 25, 2001 9:03:24 PM CST
About Kate's absence, defending Lindsey, and the bad guy from A
by drath
Sleazy_G asked about Kate's strange "phasing out" after a good build up last season. I think her absence much of this season has to do with the actress becoming a regular on the TNT Wallstreet series Bull. Sadly, I think it's hurt the character of Kate to leave her out of the game so long. I wonder if recasting the part would work.*****And what's with all this bashing Lindsey's intelligence? Sleazy_G says he's none too bright, Snugbug said he was a hack. Okay, while he doesn't have the head's up on what the Senior Partners are up to(note--just as Angel doesn't understand what the Powers That Be have in mind), I think he's more resourceful than all that. Certainly I think he's more likely to come out ahead than Lilah! He let emotion get in his way this ep, but I laughed hard when he went "Well Boo-hoo" to the idea of Boone killing Angel. Frankly, I really want to see Lindsey beat Angel now, and I think that's what they're building up to. Angel's gotten too cockey, he needs to be humbled. And Lindsey's the only character on the show who really wants to hurt Angel. I mean HURT him. Darla and Dru want him evil again, Wolfram and Hart wants him evil or ineffective, Lilah just wants power, but Lindsey hates Angel personally(and like I said once before, with good reason). He only requires the means to do it. I hope it goes somewhere fast though, since people are obviously getting tired of Angel having the upper hand. First rule of having a good villain, you must believe he can hurt the hero, right? Although it would be interesting if Angel did go bad as Sundown suggested, and Darla, Dru, Lindsey, Lilah, and Faith all became protagonists trying to stop him(or survive him) along with Wes, Cordy, and Gunn. What a show that would be!*****Also, I wonder if any of these characters have a connection to that vampire hunter that Angelus and Darla were talking about in a flash back several episodes ago. And I wonder if that's the guy from Angel's past that's supposedly coming! If we're getting another villain, I'd rather it be him than Boone again. Ugh, what I silly bad guy. Harmony from Buffy is better.
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If Glory seems somewhat weak and limited for a deity/fallen angel, it could simply be that inhabiting human form has forced some limitations upon her.
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i was mainly thanking you fo rthe other nonsense. i dont live in the US and i cant take the chance of reading your buffy thoughts cause theyll spoil it for me!! though, im sure there insighful and well written too..***why am i on a buffy talkback if i dont read spoilers about buffy?? not very bright i guess but i cant resist clicking onto anything that says buffy! anyway, this tb is dying down if not officially dead (its always a sad thing when a tb discusson u really like dies out, u know?) so i doubt anyonell read this anyway. ah well....baff
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In this week's episode, Travers did call Glory "the Beast," another name for Satan. However, he then went and described her as a god. If we're talking Satan, Lucifer, the Prince of Darkness, Elizabeth Hurley, Al Pacino, the whole nine yards, then I want to know why he didn't just say that's what Glory was! My guess is he would have said "She's the Devil" instead of "She's a god," if such were the case. Now, it could be that they plan to suggest Glory was the center of some ancient mythology that became the foundation for the Devil in Christianity, but that seems out of character for Whedon. As Sleazy_G has said, Whedon doesn't use real mythology and he's repeated that often enough I think we can trust he means it.
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Jan 26, 2001 11:22:13 AM CST
well no one may read this and god knows where it will post but t
by sundown
Don't get me wrong I don't see Lindsey kicking the senior partners asses anytime soon. All I'm saying is unlike Buffy which has villains every season it seems Angel is taking the LOONG cool route of allowing villains to grow into there shoes as well. Remember the Joker was a lackey in Batman before he was dropped in acid. When Lindsey got hsi arm chopped off after nearly turning good the foundations of a true nemesis were born So when he survived the Darla Dru onslaught it grew. W&H will never be mortal enemies of Angel cause with them its not personal! But when you look at all the very personal history Joss has been painstakingly setting up as far as Darl and their origins (Lindsey being a poh boy) he just rings true as Angels Joker. Now the cool thing about him is he doesn't really know HOW to be a villain...but Angel is TEACHING him. True Lindsey is naive BUT he ain't stupid. He learns quick look what he did to his partner. Guaranteed soon he will rise a notch and grow in his evil from Angels prodding. He wa stricked with Boone but no whe knows and now he'llplan. Also he DOESN'T care about anything or anyone anymore unlike the Mayor or Master or even Angellus. He has no fear of death and failure so he can act bold and eventually it WILL pay off. Now to me it would be awesome if by season 5 Angel takes out the Senior Partners is a huge fight only to set up Lindsey as a really powerful monster and one Angel created. As Angel comes to grips with his evil Lindsey will embrace it. But thats just the way I hope it goes but the show has been so cool anything short of GI Joe cyborgs wouldn't ruin it. Also AWESOME catch G with the Wolf Ram and Hart thing.
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Whole 9 Yards I mean ;)
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You're all still watching and barking about the damn show later... they must be doing something right. "blah blah the villians are bland blah blah the humor is forced". Stop being such intellectual assholes and just enjoy the fact that every week you get to watch a hot chick beat shit up, have a few laughs, and maybe give a rats ass about a plot or two. It's not fucking rocket science, gentleman... pull your heads out of your asses.
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YES! You're right, Angel can be seen as turning Lindsey into a meaner villain with the hand chopping and the leaving for dead. I wonder if Angel will ever face up to that or if he'll just pretend it's not his fault. Maybe there's a test for him in there somewhere. Anyway, I have to admit, Sleazy_G is right that old Lindsey is losing points to Angel in the smarts department, but I can't bring myself to see him as a dimwit. He's young I guess(which can mean dumb often enough). Angel and the Senior Partners only have 200+ years on him. But the best villains on Angel and Buffy have been the ones the hero had a hand at creating. Okay, Faith and the Mayor are two great exceptions(I liked Mr. Trick too), but Adam and Glory are definately Grade-C heavies.
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Thanks Drath and G-Lindsey may also be a Spike kinda villain. One that hangs around makes trouble and who's plans never pan out in a big way. Yet unlike Angellus who was staked and sent to hell and Adam who got nuked he still manages to hang around to cause trouble...and be neutered... I see what you mean G in that he may step in something but I think that type of foreshadowing is saved for hero types usually but weho knows maybe he AND Angel are on course to destroy themselves. I just like the fact that you can see Lindsey struggling to compete with this smarter older creature. The villain has LESS power and has to compensate for it with guile. Lindsey may not be up to the task but the changes in his personality just like Angels may mean a surprise for us all I personally hope. I guess the reaon why I love the show is you have a hero who acts like a villain, sidekicks who act like heroes, a villain trying to outsmart a stronger more powerful foe who has his back to the wall and some 'evil' vampire chicks being terrorized by the 'hero'. I love shows that break rules and this one is doing al lthe things I love in a story. I am positive Lilah is a tool for a change in Lindsey and if I'm wrong about that I'll eat a hot pocket! As far as Lindsey goes I think he'll be around for a while cause they invested so much in him. With Angelthough you never know what they'll do with him...
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sorry for fast food flashback nightmare G. Those were the talkback days... Anyways I would liken Lindsey more to Mr Tris from a sudden death point of view.. I mean Doyle was a coke head so they didn't plan on knocking him off and Jenny wasn't near as important a character as Lindsey. Lindsey has been a major villain of the show. So heres the bet- I bet Lindsey lasts as long as the senior partners or longer...meaning if they all die in one episode together I win or if Lindsey outlasts them I win. I figure they'll either wrap up all of W&H in one episode even if its the shows finale and Lindsey will buy it in that one or Lindsey will actually outlast W&H just cause so much is invested in him... Of course if the big bosses nonchalantly whack him I lose... The stakes- the loser eats a hot pocket. Of course if you can think of a viler food for me to eat in place of it( I already know YOU love em) let me know and if I lose we'll down em. Although this bet may be runnin a wrong time... Oh and right now I think Spike is the biggest Tool on either show...
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Just had a thought... remember the dream that Buffy had at the end of last season? With Spike and Giles on the swing-set, and Spike talking about being a junior watcher (or whatever). Was this the foreshadowing of his obsession with Buffy? Becoming a kind of 'watcher' over her life in a similar way to Giles ?
Thoughts ? -
Of course he's going to be a major player. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he's got something up his one good sleeve and is playing them ALL -- Angel, Lilah, and the senior partners. Think about what he's done so far. Where has he really screwed up, becides losing his hand? 1) He got his boss killed off by Darla, 2) Darla, who HE brought Dru to to revamp. He did that - otherwise why the shock on his boss' face in the cellar? That was his play, and notice he wasn't afraid of Darla killing him. 3) The shelter incident a flub? Maybe, but he got the senior partner's attention and drew Angel out. Maybe he's testing him? He didn't seem too scared when the other firm member told him the senior partners were pissed because he embarassed the firm. Unlike Lilah, who is clueless, and just trying to stay alive. 4)The demon hunter from the flashback -- GOOD CALL. That would establish a connection to Angel/Darla. What if he's a descendant of the demon hunter? I don't know if you folks ever watched the cartoon Gargoyles, but there was a similar character called the Hunter, who passed his mantle down each generation. Maybe he specifically joined the firm to use their resources to finish what his ancestors had started.
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during her fit. It seems to happen to her when shes crazy and those she affects when they go crazy. It also creeped into B's subconscious in the guise of Faith. What does it mean? Something to do with sanity splitting from insanity is my thinking on it. I intially thought it was Dawn and Buffy but now maybe its Ben and Glory. Who is mrs. muffet? Buffy? Giant spiders would be cool though... also what about my bet G? Scared to have to eat a hot pocket!? Put your stomach (and regularity) where your keyboard is. what do you think of the wager...also you have to come up with a vile food for me to eat...
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Jan 30, 2001 6:29:09 AM CST
hate to break it to ya but I love AND important CURDS AND WHEY r
by sundown
bacon cheeseburger dogs too...I live in NY so 7-11 is an option. Although I like all my food plain so the toppings WILL be punishment! And they are crust covered. And so if Lindsey dies and ignominous death...what the hell does that mean? anyways if he crokes and fades away I will not only eat my words but this dog. As far as hot pockets well, lets say steak and cheese should be renamed vomit pocket. I could eat most flavors and have but I could never get through that one. Now for Buffy GO HERE!!! read this curds and whey analogy to Macbeth it may help us as to where Joss is going... http://www.elizreview.com/articles/curds.htm
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actually it was this part that I was mainly reffering too as well as using it to understand how a curds and whey metaphor could work
"Whey was naturally regarded as the inferior element, and the natural violence of its necessary separation from the valuable curd anticipated with anxiety." So it gives us a hint of what Joss could be talkin bout if he really understands what the ref means. Now under this term I gotta agree your probably right although it may also have something to do with Ben and Glory... And if you can't find something as bad a steak and cheese hotpocket I'll let you off the hook...they are a fate worse than death. Previews for next week aired...they rocked! -
I will bet you all a hot pocket that Liam is the fellow returning from the past at the season's end. I call you out sundown and Sleazy_G. Are you in or out?****Backing me up on my theory is an interview I found from Boreanaz over at E!Online. David says, "I found out today where he's going, and I'm really excited about it. What the fans are going to see is a different personality coming out--really different. Angel is now in a phase of being very withdrawn. Nothing matters--he wants to get the kill, and that's it. But he'll open up more. He's going to come out in some way, and what that crossroad brings is going to be interesting. He's going to be a different person. There are a lot of personalities in Angel, and I enjoy playing each one of them."****Different personality = Liam.
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Why? Because I think Angel's gonna get to be human (albiet probably briefly). He lost his accent a long time ago -- Liam would still be the modern man/vamp that Angel was. Would Darla recognize Liam, a man she hasn't seen for over 250 years? She expects wimpy Angel or violent Angelus, but maybe not something in between. "He's something...new." No, not NEW Darla, dear...very, very OLD. Get your microwave ready on a 2:50 setting, Sleazy!
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Angel is in a state of evolution. This has all been triggered by W&H bringing Darla back and Lindsey re-vamping her. He is neither Angel or Angelus but something in between that I believe will end up as Liam by season's end. Either that, or he will completely self-destruct, but I don't think we'll see Angelus anytime soon. He's in emotional limbo right now, acting on autopilot, because like he says, "He can't care." Geez Louise! Imagine an entire season or even half-season of Angel as a human.
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They're going out of their way to show just how emotionless he is towards them. Angel thinks he can do it by himself, Angel will fight the war while they fight the good fight. When Angel goes all "human", he's going to realize how much he needs them -- he's going to get a very rude awakening. They will be tempted to kick him when he's down for all the crap he's pulled, but it will bring them all even closer. Shanshu says his reward is to be human, permanently. This will not be permanent, but just a huge plot-twist and I feel Angel's conscience will prevent him from staying human because he knows his mission is unfulfilled and that he is unprepared to face it as a mortal. All we know is Angel will be human someday for good. I believe the Shanshu prophesy also said he will be given difficult choices to make in between.
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hey Superninja...don't make me get umbrage out of the closet! I might take it over that comment. Just cause I'm willing to write a gay cambodian vampire story (see current Crystal ship post) doesn't mean ANYTHING....ok anything. I love Angel but not in the Poppy Z Brite kinda way. Anyways I'm sort of toen. I don't feel narly food strong enough about THIS Angel topic to go either way. Yee both make good points. Although G did his case a dis-service cause he brought up the Liam 'Noir' episode (EE around to argue the noir point? WHERE ARE YOU MAN?) anyways he turned his back on those people just as he did on the lawyers SEE the similiarities? BOTH acted like Liam. I don't know, I for one would rather see an evil Angellus for half a season than a loserey Liam. Just cause turning your hero into the villain for a while seems cooler than turing him into a wussy drunk begging his ex friends to hang out. The scrolls said that he would have many choices as well as fight many battles and yadda yadda but they never implied he would be human an Vamp an human again. Also didn't they have an episode where he was human an nailed Buffy and ate and had a [erfect day but turned it down? So for that reason alone I don't think they'll do it again. They also gave him that unkillable ring which was another choice so he has had many already. So I'll be willing to bet a hot pocket just so Superninja would have to eat TWO HAHAHA. sorry. Lemme tell ya, Hot Pockets are like $hit filled soppy bread rolls. I know I'm probably the only one here who has eaten many. Hey what do you do when you come back from a club and its 4am and you don't want to go home and the only thing open is 7-11??? You eat a hot pocket cause you're so drunk it will actually kick the liquors ass and stay down. Its like bad ass pepto. BUT I wouldn't wish them on anyone sober even an enemy so if anyone wants to back out GOD BLESS YA! That means you too G cause I WILL win our bet. Lindsey is here 4eva!
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