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Sci-Fi Channel's DUNE Mini-Series Review And TALKBACK!
I've been mulling over this review for a few of weeks now, having seen
a 99.9 percent complete version of the upcoming (this Sunday, December 3rd through Tuesday,
December 5th) six-hour miniseries,
brought to us by the Sci-Fi Channel (check out the website, it's got a TON of stuff). You may have even seen the trailer for this miniseries, which has been showing
in cinemas.
DUNE tells an interesting story, and the Sci-Fi Channel is a highly accurate
adaptation of the original text, accuracy being a common complaint about the previous film by
David Lynch. The main questions to be answered by this series are of the execution
of a story that we already know to be compelling, and of the comparison to be made
with the previous feature film, which is enormously well-known by fans of science
fiction.
One of the most notable characteristics of the miniseries is the extended depth
with which every story element is explored. We are given a greater understanding of
the relationship between the Duke and Paul's mother, we learn more about who Gurney is,
who Irulan is, how Paul's relationship with Chani mirrors that of his parents with each
other, and how the Harkonnen house plots both against others and against itself.
I found this to be a great improvement over the feature film, which to a large extent
left most of these issues unexplored. The miniseries' mirroring of the original division
of the book into three parts makes for a considerably clearer telling of this story.
More than that, though, the miniseries has a genuinely interesting look, an atmosphere
all its own, which at times is exceptionally impressive. The set designs are inventive
and elaborate, and there is a genuine feel of a separate universe and culture from our own.
At times, I found the detail in the set designs to be stunning.
There is an interesting mixture of feels, at times the look is that of a feature film, at
times, of typical television, and at times, one feels as though one is watching a stage play.
Some might find this treatment inconsistent, but I found it interesting. I also thought that
the extensive use of unusual lighting created a greater feel for the fantastic nature of this
story. Certainly, the lighting was frequently not realistic, but fantasy by definition contains
elements of the unreal.
Beyond unconventional lighting, many outdoor shots are done using large backdrops on
sound stages. These are some of the instances which feel a lot like stage plays. Some might
look upon these scenes with derision, because, again, they're not realistic. I happened to
enjoy them a great deal, I thought they created
a distinct and clearly intended look. Obviously, they made making this series easier too. Realistically, not everyone can afford to spend millions of dollars doing location shoots. In any case, the work done on sets looked great, and the costumes were excellent as well, I thought, I found only a
few not to my liking.
I was surprised by the casting as well, since having previously seen a 45-minute rough cut
of some scenes, I was almost sure that I wasn't going to like this series. In the end, though,
most of the casting choices were good, I think. After a time to get accustomed to the new look
of the various characters, I came to appreciate characters I thought I would loathe. The only
character who I didn't come to appreciate in the end was that of Feyd, whom I simply didn't find
to be a powerful enough or evil enough portrayal. This isn't to say that I thought the cast was
amazing, I simply think that they did a fair job, and that in light of other television, including
made for television movies and miniseries, I thought they were comparable and of good quality.
Remember, this is not a feature film. It is television.
The effects were frequently very well done, although they sometimes lacked the cinematic
qualities of the Lynch film, notably during external shots and with the worms, which have a
definite CG feel in this miniseries. In the end, though, I thought that all of the effects in
this miniseries served their purposes well, and were executed with competence.
The perfect DUNE, for me, is not to be found either in the Lynch film, or in this newest
television adaptation. Certainly, the Lynch film found a mood and atmosphere that was
exceptional in its own right, even if it diverged sharply with the original text. This new
series is not as powerful in its presentation, but is in some ways more interesting, and
certainly more faithful. Some scenes didn't work for me at all, and some worked very well.
I enjoyed seeing the story presented more thoroughly. I enjoyed the new set designs and
costumes, with few exceptions. So how does the series really rate? Well, let me make a few
comparisons. First of all, it's better than most of the stuff playing at your local cineplex.
I'm not sure that's saying much, but it's true.
The DUNE miniseries is also better
than most other made-for-television miniseries that I've seen. Likewise, it's better than most
sci-fi television out there. I'd say it's worth catching if you're either a Dune fan or a sci-fi
junkie. Definitely. It's also, in my opinion, a fairly significant milestone for the
Sci-Fi Channel. This is the first attempt by them to produce
a high-quality miniseries of their own, to show their independence and growing maturity as a network,
and their ability to compete with the biggest and best television networks. On that basis alone,
this is an interesting project.
So, while the miniseries is far from perfect, it's better than the vast majority of made-for-TV movies
or miniseries that I've ever seen. The middle two hours are a bit slow, but in general, I found myself
enjoying watching it, and wanting more...which is a good thing, because the Sci-Fi Channel has already
ordered production of a sequel mini-series. Nice, I think, because it's never been committed to film.
Anyway, I hope a bunch of you folks tune in and support this series, because I think it's a worthwhile
venture. There you have it. Keep an open mind, (fear is the mind-killer), and enjoy this series for
what it is. I'm pretty sure you'll be eager to see the sequel when it's over.
-El Cosmico
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I figured I would just get the Sci-Fi channel added for December, watch Dune, and then get rid of the Cable box and go back to standard cable.
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Dec 02, 2000 3:22:53 AM CST
This is the closest we will get to a cinematic Dune, folks.
by andy travis
Mini-series is quite frankly the only way to even attempt something like Dune. It will still be an edited concept in form, but even in six hours you can't encapsulate the book. You may be mad that they cut something out, or mad that the special effects and lighting aren't perfect, but at least this thing got completed. Sci-Fi deserves some praise for even green-lighting the project in the first place.
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Return Farscape to Friday nights!
Good review...It'll be fun to finally watch Dune without having to explain every scene to my girlfriend (who hasn't read the books). Maybe after this she'll watch Lynch's director's cut without asking all of those pesky questions! -
My father, who read the original Dune books back in the 70s and 80s, is a fan of the David Lynch film as well. He also liked Blade Runner, Flash Gordon, Aliens, watches X-Files, and Wrath of Kahn. He knows about plot twists, and pure science fiction and fact elements, and is very well read. I can't think of another 60 year old relative I'd want to go see Episode 1 with. As far as the Lynch version of Dune went, he summed it up like this...the book is an intricate turn on biblical and mythical stories, where Muad'Dib is basically a flawed Christ figure. He explained a lot more, but I was on his wavelength anyway. The reason that hardcore fans of the books didn't like the movie was because it was too simplistic with a monstrously detailed work. But...the reason a lot of people came away confused by the techno-babble of the picture and whatnot is because the diehard fans, know-it-all critics, and know-nothing media told the average Joe about this wildly complex and involved underlining THAT WAS NEVER IN THE MOVIE VERSION TO BEGIN WITH. The books are a fictional, intricate futuristic, pseudo-biblical saga. The movie was quite simply good guys vs. bad guys, with a bit of mysticism (just like the Force in STAR WARS, or the Ark in RAIDERS.) Period. Any attempts to get further under the skin of this movie simply annoys a fanboy and confuses the average Who down in Whoville. If one just takes in Lynch's DUNE as a movie watcher, it's simply good and evil and that's all. At that point it's as subject to critiscm as any original motion picture. If the TV series is more faithful than the Lynch film, well, duh...I hope DUNE 2000 kicks ass, in an intellectual way, of course.
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The main challenge in bringing any film version of Dune to light is that the book itself, while filled with amazing scenes of action and spectacular visuals, is lived mainly through the minds of its characters. The book is so full of internal dialogues, which in and of itself is intriguing and mesmerizing. While reading the book you feel as much a part of the people as of the story. It's a wonderful technique. Unfortunately, film being the visual medium that it is, translating the internal dialogues to the screen is a Herculean task. That is exactly what Lynch was going for in the feature film. And that, in my opinion, is why it failed miserably. While they tried to tease us with great visuals, they tried to keep the story as internal as the book, which just simply didn't work. Aside from the jumpy narrative and choppy editing (I would still like to see more of the rumored footage that was still left out even in the extended television version), the constant whispering voiceovers to signify each person's thinking was one of the most off-putting devices ever used in film. I love the look of the feature film. I think they got it right. But they certainly botched it on the story. If not for having read the book, I would have been lost completely as to what was going on. Now with this mini-series, any expansion of the story itself (even just to have some type of coherency) will be welcome and will draw in the fans and, hopefully, those who were put-off of this classic by the earlier film. The only thing I ask is that they dont spend much time in each person's head.
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Two years ago, the sci-fi introduced, "Farscape," than this last July, they introduced,"The Invisible Man," which showed great ratings, and competed among the top ten most watched sci-fi shows. And now the sci-fi channel gives us the cinematic feature, "Dune." They've been advertising it a lot on their channel and website. It's very hard to tune into any of those, and not see anything about Dune. I am a long-time viewer of the sci-fi channel, and am very proud that it is finally getting viewer attention with it's original series. Congratulations!
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I realy want to see the new Dune, I like the lynch film even if the worms suck. I have read the books and thought they were Brilliant. So again I ask.
WHEN AND WHERE WILL THIS SHOW IN THE UK? -
You left out the fact that they've brought Babylon 5 back to TV. It was always out of place on TNT however without them we wouldn't have had Season 5, the 4 movies or Crusade (which I hope Sci-Fi picks up)
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Dec 02, 2000 2:29:05 PM CST
Now, if they would only make a trend of picking up bad films mad
by tender branson
Personally, whenever someone points to "Dune" and begins to expound on how badly it sucked, I always make fun of them for getting all teary eyed and geeky over "Starship Troopers". That movie had little to NOTHING to do with the original source material and still everyone seems to love it. I personally loved "Dune" the original film and all of it's flaws. If it hadn't been an adaption of probably the biggest sci-fi book of all time, (Except for maybe "Stranger in a Strange Land" which SUCKS!!!!!) it would be revered as one of the best visonary epics of all time. (Not to mention the only linear film that David Lynch has ever bothered to make.) I loved everything about that film, from the look, the cast, (ALL ACTORS, in case no else BUT, me noticed.) and the FX. The worms were exactly as I'd imagined them, the score, (I defy you to insult the score.) was at times the best sci-fi score ever written and the acting was quite good, even Sting who I think should be ritually disemboweled while the chest cavity is filled with hot coals.
This new series is facinating to me though. I never thought after the financial failure of the first film that ANYONE would attempt to revisit the world of "Dune" in any form. Now, if only the sci-fi channel would pick up "Battlefield Earth" and do the same. (Keeping the Scientologists and the King of Overacting, John Travolta the fuck away from it!) That would be pretty cool. I'd also like to see them pick up "Space: Above and Beyond" and go the same route as "Sliders" (Which has and always will suck dick.) It's not like the original cast is busy doing anything. -
those sandworms looked pretty sweet!
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It turns out the studio that is sending the tapes to the SciFi channel screwed up. They created season 2 & 3 letterbox from the 4:3 image, hence the chopped heads. They also have poor sound quality- hissing and pops. The Movies were correct widescreen, but the sound was still questionable. SciFi was made aware of the issue & will have it corrected for season 4&5 and the rebroadcast next year.
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I used to love B5 and still do but now that admiration for the old series is tempered with disappointment at how inadequate its followup turned out to be. Not to mention how it sputtered home during the 5th season. :-(
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What, were the sentences too long? The words too big for you? We get a totally spoiler-free review that manages to give lots of detail about what to expect. It gives comparisons and descriptions that readers can ACTUALLY USE. Talkbackers like you are what make talkback suck. You and your one-line, meaningless bullshit statements. All you can offer is a negative statement with nothing to back it up, you're only here to be an asshole. Well, on behalf of all talkbackers with education levels of first grade and beyond, let me say, in language you can understand, FUCK YOU. YOU SUCK ASS, YOU GODDAMN FUCKING MORON. DIE. DIE. DIE. YOU PIECE OF GUTTER SCUM, YOU WORTHLESS HUNK OF SHIT.
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Was THIRDSPACE broadcast in authentic widescreen? Some of the live-action shots seemed improperly framed to me, but I may just be overly-suspicious after seeing a full season of cropped episodes. And what's the deal with THE GATHERING? That one wasn't even filmed in widescreen.
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Some parts of this review I liked very much and other parts I didn't like at all. Some parts were more well written than you average, newspaper review, and yet other parts weren't. The use of red type is quite interesting in some paragraphs, while completely distracting in others. I was very concerned about the reviewer they picked to write this review but as the review went on I realized that in most parts of the review the reviewer was doing a good job while in other parts merely adequate. The length of this
review allows the reviewer to
explore the subject matter more
deeply then other reviews I've
read recently but, It lacks a
powerful presentation. Did I like this review? I would have to say definitely yes! Well, except those parts that I didn't like. I will have to recommend this review to all my friends, except my girfriend. Oh, and the guys in my collage dorm. And my brother Phil. And dogs, I don't think dogs would really enjoy it being as they can't read and all. So we'll just say animals, I won't be recommeding it to any animals. Well, some animals. Humans are
animals. OK, NON-READING animals. I WON'T be recommending this review to ANY non reading animals. I will on the other hand, be recommending this review to ALL animals with the ability to read, EXCEPT, those I mentioned earlier. There, I think that sets the record straight. So, in summation, I would most definintely, probably possibly, maybe, recommend parts of this review but, NOT other parts. I'd have to say that this review is definitely, probably, possibly, maybe, only for die-hard
movie/TV reviews or fans of fence stradling everywhere. -
We should probably move this off the Dune discussion talk back. There's a decent discussion forum on the SciFi channel:
http://www.scifi.com/babylon5
In response to the previous poster (my last response on this topic, I promise), From what I've read, Thirdspace was broadcast in authentic widescreen. I had the same thought as you, though. There were just a couple of scenes that I wasn't sure about. Also, there was a lot of static & pops. Sounded like my old LPs! I've heard that this IS SciFi's fault, not Warner Bros.
The Gathering was not filmed in widescreen, you are correct. However, there was careful attention paid to the cropping so we didn't lose foreheads and mouths. The season 2&3 disaster is giving widescreen a (completely undeserved) bad name.
To Nazismasher, I agree with you on the quality of season 5 & Crusade. However, this was 90% TNT's fault. They kept jerking JMS around and trying to get more T&A and action where there didn't need to be any. I'm glad they helped get season 5 produced, but I'm also glad they don't have the B5 universe anymore! Rumor has it there are 2 big 'news items' coming about B5. Check the SciFi forum for the latest (JMS dropped some hints). -
Look knox21, if your brain can't handle a mixed review, you know, one with actual thought, please kindly go to hell. Was it too much for you that El Cosmico didn't say either "this is the best show ever" or "this is the worst show ever"? Your mind can't handle anything in between? You can't understand that some people are going to like certain shows, and others not? Allow me to echo crapola here...shitheads like you are what make talkback suck. I know, you think you're funny, but you're just a twelve year old asshole, and we all know it. If you want to comment on the show, then do so. If you want to talk about sci-fi, the Lynch film, or the Sci-Fi Channel, great. But no, you're just coming here to be a shithead...and yes, you suck ass. You are a stupid, fucking bastard, a festering sore on a fly's ass that is wallowing in shit. Kindly die a painful death.
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Interesting review. I've read all six of the Dune Chronicles (a few times in some cases), and always hoped someone would give it another go on the screen after the Lynch debacle. Lynch's project was perhaps doomed from the start by being squeezed into under 3 hours; that does not, however, excuse or explain the numerous liberties he took with the book. Sci-Fi's Dune can't help but be an improvement, just by virtue of the time it's able to devote to telling the tale. For me the one obstacle it may encounter, in my mind at any rate, is the question of visuals. Lynch's Dune was a failure, but it did succeed in drawing in a powerful cast (for the most part) and also in most of the visuals it conjured of the Sune universe. Despite my own imagined images, Lynch's have managed to impress themselves on me, and that's something I'll be grappling with as I view the new Dune, whose visuals look quite different in many regards (what's with the Mentat garb?). So, as I say, I'll be working hard to keep an open mind - and hoping I can still commend Sci-Fi for taking on this worthy project.
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Dec 03, 2000 9:08:17 PM CST
Duke Leto's on PROZAC and those wings ain't flapping! The rest
by fourmyle
Good and bad from the first hour. Bad: 1. William Hurt's on some sedative. "The Emperor fears me." Yeah. Shaddam's afraid of some laid back dude who sounds asleep?! The Duke was notable for his charisma, above all else. 2. Onithopter wings should flap. Look up the word's prefix & see the book. 3. Rev Mom's outfit is silly. 4. Dopey Mentat hats are out of that ST:TOS episode where the two planets fight by computer simulation. 5. Look of Guildsman "capsule" & ornithopters owe too much to Lynch version. Good: 1. We have gotten what we clamored for--this is reasonably faithful to the book. Unfortunately, such attention to detail might be impenetrable and confusing to someone unfamiliar with the (complicated) book. Maybe a couple of subtitles identifying the three major locations wouldn't have been too bad. 2. Buildings, sets, the great hall of the Arrakeen castle the Duke moved into--all perfect. 3. As an American, it's nice to see a version of the future where all the actors don't have generic Midwestern US accents. Unfortunately, some Americans might find the hopping between diferent accents difficult to follow, especially if they haven't re-read the book recently. Overall, it looks good. We'll see...5 more hours to go.
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I just saw this damn movie and I WILL not sit throught two more nights of this shit. David Lynch ain't got nothing to feel bad about compared to this sleep-fest. What's up with showing five minutes of the movie then going to commercials? Frank Herbert continues to spin in his grave.
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I have to say, I am enjoying this version of Dune, thus far. I have read the original 6 books and I just finished re-reading Dune to prepare for this. They have done a good job of combining a few storylines and choose careefully which ones should be skipped. The only confusing thing was introducing Princess Irulan at the dinner party; where did that come from?
As for the acting: William hurt does seem a bit lethargic, especially in comparison with the focused acting around him. I love the accents! It gives the feeling of otherworldliness and that every one is from differing origins. I also like the splitting of the parts along the same lines as the original book. As much as I enjoyed the internal dialog and struggle of the characters in the book, it did not translate well in Lynch's version. I prefer the fact that the actors show it in their representation and reflect it in the dialog instead.
I look forward the the next 2 parts. -
Having watched the first night of this 3 night mini-series, I'm pleased with the results but far from excited. I'm yet to see any aspect of the book better handled in this version than in the Lynch version, but that doesn't mean this isn't an enjoyable attempt. Of course, the look of the entire movie is hampered by excessive computer generated effects, but I can understand that due to budgetary reasons. What I really don't understand is how ANYONE can say this version is any more adherent to Herbert's masterpiece than was Lynch's version. At least Lynch had the balls to incorporate his own interpretation and ideas into the film in the open. This new version was made under the false pretense that it would be a more literal adaptation and that only makes the slight changes that much more lame. I'm not a stickler for strict adaptations, but, speaking objectively, this version adds stuff into the text just as liberally but without Lynch's creativity. I won't get into details to avoid spoilage. The shows interesting.....the performances are FAIR.....but I'm not very impressed and don't that you will be either.
By the way.....Sci-Fi....please still make Dune Messiah through God Emperor. I'm not overwhelmed by what I've seen so far, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the effort. Plus, there's always room for improvement.
Waiting for that 8 hour "director's cut" of myth....SKYLEWALKER -
Even though I really love Lynch's Dune, it never inspired me to read the book. After seeing sci-fi's effort tonight, I feel more attracted to the story, and may actually pick it up. Certainly, much of what was confusing about the movie is much more clear to me now. Bravo, Sci-Fi!
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Watching this, I'm reminded of a fantastic audio interview I had and am trying to dig up, of Frank Herbert and David Lynch on the release of the movie. Frank Herbert said, "Some things are the same...some things are different...and some things are better." I believe that was very true of the film, and Herbert made it very clear that Lynch captured what was in his head when he made the film.
I like the miniseries. But it doesn't have the passion or understanding of the myth that Lynch had. It's very literal, but in no way more faithful than the film. (Look at the gom jabaar scene with the Reverend Mother. Lynch absolutely nailed that characterization, adding multiple levels of motivations and threat. This Reverend Mother was one notch down from Cruella De Vil.) This is textually more detailed, but Lynch captured the book's essence, even if he rushed the Fremen scenes. Still, much to like here. The sandworms, even if obviously CGIed, are terrifying beasts, the lighting is fascinating, and much of the set design is gorgeous (though, again, I miss the distinct personality of each planet that Lynch bestowed on the film). The cast is fairly solid, and it was nice to see Liet finally fleshed out properly.
All in all, it ain't Frank Herbert's Dune, but it's a fairly noble effort. But for all its flaws, Lynch's Dune is a memorable and unique piece of filmmaking. I wish this version had a little more poetry in its soul...
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I will add more later, but I could not agree with you more DMark. I really like this (sci-fi) version, but having read all six books and Dune itself several times, I feel the underlying emotion of the book is better captured in the Lynch(sp?) edition. I can better see Leto (the younger) and the many incarnations of Duncan in the Lynch universe. Good call man.
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Dune is one of my favorite books, and while there were things I HATED about the film (weirding modules anyone?), I loved the casting and the look of the film. Kyle McLachlan WAS Paul. Lynch did get a lot of the little details right, but somehow, the story wasn't right.
Sci-Fi's version is more faithful to the book, but seems to be missing a lot of important details. I know it's really nit-picky, but Paul really should have dark hair, Yueh should have had the diamond tattoo of Suk conditioning on his forehead, and the Mentats lacked the red stains on their lips. Lynch, at least got that right. I could see how this version did use some of the imagery from Lynch's version, but that didn't bother me. What bothered me more were the couple of liberties taken with the book. What the hell was Irulan doing at the dinner party? And what was up with Paul's and Jessica's escape from the palace? Overall, I like this version for the authenticity, but I liked Lynch's style and art direction much better. I guess I shouldn't complain though, it is one of the best adaptations of a book I've seen for either film or TV. -
Never get out of the orinithopter; you're absolutely, gosh darn right.
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I watched the first episode of the mini-series earlier tonight, and I think that it is interesting, but falls short of what I was hoping for. It has a very claustrophobic feel, even when they were standing in the open desert watching the worm. I suppose this is the result of shooting the entire film on sets instead of on location. After hearing so much about how close they were going to remain to the original text I almost blew a gasket when I saw Irulan come to the dinner. And after travelling millions of miles to attend a dinner I'd expect her to remain on the planet a bit longer than a couple hours. Obviously they wanted to introduce her, her connections to the Emperor, and the Sardaukar. But I can't shake the feeling that there could've been a much better way of doing it.
I felt that the Gom Jabbar scene was incredibly short and felt rather unimportant. The significance of the event was never explained. There was no suspense, no uncertainty of the outcome. Plus the Reverand Mother's costume had me cracking up.
Speaking of costumes I found most of them to be pretty interesting with the exception of Thufir Hawat's. He is described as "warrior mentat" in the book. He looked like an idiot, not a warrior in any way.
Overall I did like the show and I'll catch the rest of the series. One thing that really bugged me, Duncan Idaho. In the book he goes down in a pile of Sardaukar, heroicly buying time for Paul and Jessica to escape. In this show we see him get wasted (I think, I honestly can't remember actually seeing him die) by a rocket from a Harkonen/Sardaukar ornithopter. Such a pity. -
Well, well, well, I have to take issue with those who say "thank God the Sci-Fi Channel got this greenlighted." That's a bit like saying "thank God they made a remake of La Femme Nikita." And we are talking about a remake when talking about Sci-Fi's monumentally boring and ameteurish take on Herbert's book. My boyfriend turned to me halfway through this snoozefest and summed up the difference between Lynch's film and the mini-series. Lynch gave us art, these people give us television.*******That's really what's happening here. Lynch's version, in my opinion, is a sublime and flawed masterpiece, so ambitious and imaginative in its reach that it was doomed to failure, in much the same way that Peter Jackson's LOTR is doomed to failure...because millions of people (fans AND regular joes) have ALREADY made the movie in their head; anything Hollywood produces is bound to produce a violent conflict, like an epilectic attack predicated on the nervous impulse to assault anything that doesn't align with our deep-seated sense of reality, even when it's authored by Tolkien or Frank Herbert.*******There is no excuse for the piece of tripe Sci-Fi hoisted on us. And I'm deeply disappointed by fellow sci-fi fans who believe that Farscape is anything more than an idiot's application of tired fantastic themes. No, Farscape, like the mini-series Dune, is not good, it's not even acceptable in a void otherwise occupied by crap. It's insulting and uninteresting. That's where we draw the line.*******You can't accuse Lynch's film of ever being uninteresting. And you certainly can't call it an all-out, yawn-inducing, disastrously acted, high-school (and I mean that in the most derogatory, sweeping sense of the concept) piece of drivel, which is what I watched on Sci-Fi for the last two hours. What's worst is that the director and screenwriter have no, I mean, NO, concept of political intrigue. I hope everybody watching this piece of poop had the book memorized, because they couldn't even get character and event cues to a point where a newcomer to the pythos could say, "Okay, I know what's happening." What a waste of time.
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Oh, where to begin....
I have to give kudous to the undertaking of this mini-series.
But after watching the first night, I'm a little disappointed. Especially in the performances. Not just William Hurt, but everyone. I don't really fault the actors, I fault the direction. The first part plays as if the director (as so many directors do now)spent so much time concentrating on visuals, (and the visuals -especially the production design- were very good) that directing performances were not a high priority. The choices the actors make as they play there roles were VERY flat.
I challenge anyone that hates the Lynch version to watch the two side by side and tell me the performances in Lynch's version do not kick ass over this high quality mini-series. I also think the acting in Lynch's version captures the essence of the book's characters much more truthfully. The opening feels slightly incoherent and rushed. There is no establishing Calladan as the grand water planet it is, and what it means to the Atredies and what they are sacrificing by taking over arakis. Maybe the performances suffer because the sound mix is weak. So much of the dialogue comes off muddled and incoherent. The actor that plays Paul, is 2 dimensional. He spends so much time making the choice to play being embittered angry about leaving his home, that there is NO subtext in his performance. Again, the fault of the director, who'd you think would take more notice since he wrote the adaption. As beautiful as the visuals are, the editing almost does it an injustice. It is cut so incoherently in places. The best example is the Harkonan invasion. The shot of Gurney seeing the back of Jessica(?) makes no sense as does the invasion. Whatever you make of Lynch's film, you felt the epic sense of doom when the Harkonan's invade. Another incoherency is how Paul and his Mother are whisked to the desert. Nothing is seen of this, then it is mentioned as an afterthought by the baron, and then it cuts to them lying in the desert, and Gurney comes and backtracks the exposition. Incoherent. Of course the cutting could very well have been because of network meddling and not the director's choice. Or again, maybe I missed something because the dialogue was so muddled at times. I do think the actress that plays Jessica is the exception. She is very good. The visuals in this mini-series are very compelling and do the story justice (especially the guild navigators, althought there importance in the story and conspiracy are almost forgotten.) Some of the costumes were amazing, and some lacking (Thuy?)
The funny thing is, for all the people that hate the lynch version, I see more similarities than differances. But I loved the Lynch film, so I don't feel that's a problem. This new telling of Dune is not bad at all. But if the director got his priorities right, and was able to incorporate the performances Lynch had (or at least had a few more ADR sessions and sound mixing), combined with the miniseries visuals, then this new incarnation would really kick some ass.
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My roommate and I watched the 1st episode tonight. Although neither of us have read the book recently we have both read it several times and throughout the showing we just kept asking each other how this version was more faithful to the book.
There were scenes and dialogue that came from nowhere (as far as we can remember) and situations that were compressed together for time. In addition, characters seemed to be different...such as Paul coming off as kind of a dick.
Can anyone point out how this version is (or will be in the next two episodes) closer to the book? Thanks. -
Who the hell decided to have Feyd walking around with a triangle stuck in his back!!!!
And the big question -- will he soon be wearing a circle or a square? -
Closer to the original????????
1) Paul is portrayed as a dick = not even close.
2) Fluff before discussion/meeting with Mohiam = eehhh! Book opens with her checking out a supposedly sleeping Paul.
3) Mohiam is either portrayed as a bit younger than she should be, or makeup was out on strike that day, don't you think?
4) Thufir Hawat is a *warrior mentat*, not a semi-brainless dweeb who couldn't beat a hole in a wet paper sack.
5) Gurney Halleck is an extremely ***large*** man, large as in pleasantly plump/chunky extreme, and ugly as hell. One of out 3 sucks.
6) Doctor Huey is just a bit younger don't you think. And there's the matter of the big DIAMOND TATOO IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS FORHEAD!!!
7) Paul is not supposed to be a whiny dick who walks out on Gurney during fighting practice, and not a swaggering fool who berates his weapons master.
8) Leto is an extremely charasmatic individual, if a bit harsh in manner on the odd occasion, not a braindead fool doped up on semuta.
9) I don't know about you, but Prana-bindu training probably shouldn't look like Vogue-ing. (Irulan)
10) Pitre is portrayed as OLDER than Thufir????????? And he's *not* nuts???? Now who's been into the spice beer?
11) Rabban looks like a bully off of 90210.
12) Feyd-Rautha may have been good looking, but hard and evil, not a boy scout with a triangle hanging off his head.
13) Look out! It looks like Alien invaded the CG shop while the worms were being done.
14) The wierding room may have been extravagant with water but was *sealed by an airlock*.
15) Finally (not for lack of looking, but for lack of sleep), there's the little matter of Paul and Jessica suddenly appearing in the desert awaking from drugged sleep presumable. Nothing about them using Voice to get the Harkonen's to kill each other. No super human kicks by Paul to take the last one out completely. No revelations about a certain Bene Gesserite's family history. No waking dreams. No revelations about certain bun in the oven.
I tried to do the suspension of disbelief thing, I really did! But, the bad acting, characters totally out of character, important character traits, important events unfolding in wierd ways, all of it caused me to fail utterly with the first 10 minutes. More true to the book, my ass! -
I was quite pleased with the first installment. Extremely well acted, I have to say. Paul, Jessica, Leto (Wm. Hurt), and Gurney were all standouts. I liked that they made an effort to show Paul's affection for Duncan Idaho (which is reason he keeps getting cloned through the Dune story). I did think that the indoor desert sets looked terrible. Would it have killed them to go to Tunisia for a couple weeks? Also I think the Harkonnens aren't nearly evil enough. Ian McNeice is a great actor, but far too foppish to be the Baron. But all in all, quite good. I am looking forward to the rest of the episodes.
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They got their desert power, but they could have used some star power: some recognizable faces besides WHurt would have helped this project. I thoroughly enjoyed the first part though, and they've got me hooked, for the next couple nites. The miniseries is very watchable television, with really good-looking visuals, even the big computer-generated worm, and a surprisingly varied pallette of colors. It's ambitious to put this kind of sprawling epic in front of people and hope they all get it, but this project has definitely found its demographic, and everybody gets it. I'd have taken the cameras outside once in awhile, even if it was to the familiar California deserts, and people have some legitimate quibbles about the changes in detail, but otherwise, this is a very successful project. As miniseries go, I'd say it's better than Storm of the Century, just as good as the Shining, and almost as good as The Stand.
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I think that this production is trying too hard to distance itself from Lynch's film. I did like thier diviation for Jessica when she arrived on Arrakis (it drew her character as a warmer person) and having shadout (sp) mapes brought more to the forefront in the early palace arrival. I do have a few questions though: 1) When did Duke Leto become an airforce fighter pilot? (Evac NOW!) 2) Why is Paul so pissy? (He's coming off as a spoiled, rich kid) 3)They are in the freak'n Desert. Water/Moisture is a huge commodity. Why was there an open window in Jessica's/Leto's bedroom and why are there not any moisture seals? Just venting. :)
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About two months ago I learned about the release of the Sci-Fi Channel Dune mini-series. I was thrilled. I immediately began reading Dune once again, savoring every minute of it, trying to absorb every detail so I could see each scene played out dramatically upon my television screen. As soon as I was finished my mother began reading the book, for the first time, so she could experience the movie as I would.
*****
The movie came on tonight, and immediately my stomach was sickened as the actors slaughtered the characters. Ever time the camera turned to another act I was once again disappointed as each element of the great book was twisted and mangled beyond recognition. Every actor's physical appearance contradicted what was said in the book. Paul looked to be 25 to 30 years old. He was ugly, angry, and in no way charismatic. A woman who is barely attractive replaced the beautiful form of Jessica. In the book, the Duke Leto was a man who ignited the fires of glory in the hearts of men, a person who could command loyalty from a complete stranger. I could imagine going to war and giving my life for such a man. Before five minutes had passed, the Duke Leto of the movie had proven himself to be an empty husk. I was physically pained by the horrid act that made the great Duke seem no more than a man born to his position, and no more deserving of it than the lowest villager. I could go on about the characters, but it would take far too long.
*****
To add to the pain of watching the movie, the entire story itself is, to be blunt, no longer Frank Herbert's. No scene remained whole. The problems were not small. It wasn't a simple change of dialog or location, or even a change of time placement. No, the scenes were put through a giant metamorphosis; twisted so much that they only vaguely mirrored Frank Herbert's words. For example, the dinner scene is not a few important guests. No, instead there were literally hundreds present at the dinner. The subtle battles, the feints within feints within feints that were thrown about during the meal were completely cut out. Instead, they were replaced with...Princess Irulan. Paul leaves the dinner to speak with Gurney Halleck and is soon approached by the princess. With a nod from Paul, Gurney leaves and then the movie is thrown into an almost romantic, flirtatious scene between Paul and Irulan that drags out for what seems to be an eternity. This is just an example of the sickening performances we were treated to.
*****
What is the purpose of a movie based on a book? All my life I've believed that it was a director's job to bring the book to life. To watch as the plots unraveled themselves on the screen, to show the action explode in digitally created beauty. However, it seems that most directors do not believe that is their job. No, they seem to think that their job is take a masterpiece such as Dune and make it their own. They rewrite the treasured works of the author to their own glory. It should not have been Frank Herbert's name in front of the title! It is no longer his. It has been marred beyond recognition by the arrogance of the director. By doing so he has insulted every single reader of Dune.
*****
I refuse to watch the next two installments of the mini series. I hate to see something I enjoyed so much be covered with slop by someone who could not even have the decency to attempt to follow the book. I hope that every person who cares about any book they've ever read does the same. Next time Sci-Fi decides to have a "giant event" like this one, I hope they actually try to find a director who cares about the original author's work.
*****
Lannon the Wizard -
I've read DUNE. I enjoyed it. However, it's a very difficult book to translate to the screen because of all of the minute details inherent in the story. I honestly believe that this miniseries has suceeded where Lynch could not. It remains faithful to the book (it's not a word-for-word translation, thankfully) while making the story dramatically sound. To top it off, it looks wonderful for a tv movie. Hell, it looks good for any movie. The cinematography is stunning. I'm very pleased. I think you people need to stop obsessing over every minor detail and go back to arguing about organic web-shooters.
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Much better than I expected it to be after watching the trailer! A piece of advice to the nitpickers - you'll enjoy it more if you DON'T read the book as "preparation" for the TV event. (That goes for the upcoming LOTR series too!) The book will ALWAYS better than the movie/TV event - just be happy the movie/TV event can stand on its own!
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So far, I'm both impressed and dissapointed.
First, the good - well, for one thing - I think for the most part the visuals are stunning (except in a few places where the CGI looks like bad CGI instead of cool FX) - I especially liked the guild navigator (though I'll have to do some re-reading to see if he looked like Herbert's descriptions of one), the space folding scene, and pretty much the entire interior of the Atreides palace in Arrakeen.
The orthnihopter's were also interesting - not quite how I pictured them - I always thought that the wings needed to be flapped in order to generate power and lift - not really so with this design. None the less the producers / fx boys get credit for a pretty creative design here.
Also, I thought some of the characters came across quite well, particularly Gurney.
Now for the bad...
First, as with David Lynch's movie, I'm really sad to say this but I can't help but feel that anyone who was not fortunate enough to have read the novel at least once or twice is completely dead meat as far as following along.
For one thing, there is absolutely no indication of who the Bene Gesserit are (in any meaningful way, at least) or for that matter, who any of the characters are, especially at the beginning. And this fits in to why I say anyone who hasn't read the book won't be able to follow - i.e. when Paul refers to Dr. Yeuh's Suk Conditioning, we have no idea even who Yeuh or what the heck Suk conditioning is - but this is a key aspect of why Yeuh is not suspected. Also, the conversation between Jessica and Yeuh about his wife would have hit the spot too, which brings me to what I think is my biggest dissapointment in terms of what was ommitted so far - that being part one completely skips the entire idea that Jessica was the traitor. I mean, its probably not essential to telling the story of Dune, but on the other hand it would have added so much more to have left it in, especially when Jessica grieves for Leto.
Another observation is that any film based on Dune either needs excellent narration or better dialogue than we have here in order to explain what's going on. So much of Dune is unspoken - remove Herbert's descriptions, or the character's inner thoughts (especially those of Paul and Jessica) and Dune the book wouldn't have even been a shell of what it is. Take these things away from a movie and I don't see how you can fare much bette - as part 1 prooves.
In any case, I do have some other specific dissapointments.
First, the garden scene with Jessica and the Mapes- I was THRILLED that they included that in this version, but I was equally dismayed that they left out the most important part (Jessica discovering the hidden message from her predecessor).
Second, the dinner party - ok first, it really bothered me that Irulan shows up here - of course she didn't in the book but more than that it seemed like a bad plot device - plus is the emporer really going to pay the Guild to fly his daughter around to dinner parties with a company of Sardukar?
Also with regard to the dinner party, and in general with the treatment of the Bene Gesserit - part 1 COMPLETELY misses the intracacy of what was supposed to be going on here - especially with Jessica using her powers of observation to analyze the conversation.
Part 1 also (to this point, at least) fails misserably to REALLY give us a sense of the scarcity of water on Arrakis - it hints at it, but that's it. The design of the stillsuits and their purpose is poorly explained for one - in the novel if a Fremen left most of his face exposed by his stillsuit he'd just die that much quicker.
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I am enjoying the hell out of this adaption. I was, however, hoping that they would use the extra time to make concepts clearer to people who haven't read the book. I read all the books so I can follow things perfectly, but I had to explain everything that was happening to my wife during the commercial breaks. I don't think she'll be watching tonight. I don't see how someone who hasn't read the book can follow. And have they even mentioned the Kwizatz Hadarach yet?
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Adapting an epic novel such as Dune is clearly no small task. All of the nuances and intricacies of the original novel could hardly be compressed into even a six-hour timeslot. The Sci-Fi Channel has undertaken this task in any case, and what it has produced is something between the original Frank Herbert novel, and David Lynch
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In the words of Kevin Kline's character in A Fish called Wanda - "DISSAPPOINTED!!!!" The Lynch film was WAAAAAAY better than this mini series has been so far. We've got a Paul Atreides who is an angst ridden whiney brat who's constantly upset about leaving Caladan. We hardly know anything about Caladan, and therefore don't get a feel for the opposite extreme Arrakis is going to be for the Atreides. We only barely know who the Bene Geserit (spelling?) are, and don't get the idea (as we did in the Lynch film) that they are a very powerful group of very powerful people. The testing scene with Paul and Gaius had no suspense whatsoever. Jessica has completely lost all sense of elegance and grace and power that she had in the Lynch film. They' don't build up the grand scope of the prophecy - for some reason when the Fremmen see Paul, they're calling him Moad'dib, but we don't know why they think Paul is the fulfillment of the prophecy - they just do, as far as we can tell. I love the suspenseful scene in the book (and the Lynch film) when the Shaddout Mapes meets with Jessica, and their exchange. We don't get that here. What's up with the bat-like navigator? I get the impression from the books that the spice gradully turns you into something more like a worm - not a bat! And Leto! Ugh! Someone give him some no-doze! In the scene where he is brought drugged before the Baron, you could barely tell a difference in his acting. And everyone's already made the complaint about Paul and Jessica suddenly winding up in the desert, a complaint with which I completely agree. I felt that it was just terrible. The book has such a grand feel and scope. The prophecies, the spice and it's powers, the mysterious, tribal, and very powerful Fremmen, the Duke that any man would die for, watching Paul transform from a promising duke-to-be to confused and terrified by his awakening powers and dreams to the Kwisatz Haderach (we haven't even heard that term yet in the mini-series!) - and the Lynch film does a good job at catching this feel, even if it does get some other things wrong. I'm going to watch and even tape the next two installments, but so far I'm very dissappointed.
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I keep seeing messages from people who say that "us fanboys" are being too nitpicky about the details. Well, I have news.
I could care less about half the details. Give them stupid-looking costumes. Change the order of things a bit, change the dialog a bit, and even change the storyline a tad. I can live with that! It's a movie, and therefore, changes have to be made.
That is not the problem with this movie! The problem is that DETAILS were not changed, EVERY SCENE was changed from what it was. Not one scene played out the way it happened in the book. Nothing was kept from the Director's gnarled hand. From the very beginning we were given a dissapointment. Paul's meeting with the Reverend Mother is the first to fall short. Soon after, Paul's training with Gurney Halleck is slaughtered. Then we have the dreadful dinner and the meeting with Irulan. At the end of the movie we have the "hop skip and jump" of Paul and Jessica to the desert with not a reason as to how they got there. Those are just the big examples! I do not recall even once seeing something happen as it was described in the book. THAT is the problem, not the "details"! -
I don't want to recap everything that has already been said about this amateurish effort. I was so thrilled to see that Duncan Idahoe was going to get the treatment that was missing from the Lynch version (after all, he probably is the most used character in the six book series)only to see him die in a Harkonnen SCUD missle attack.
And how about that scene where Paul and Jessica start to run from the ornithopters in the desert? I thought I was watching a Conan O'Brian or SNL parody skit. What was up with that? Did the film editors take a smoke break when that scene was covered? -
For fifteen years the David Lynch film has been under attack by Herbert fanboys, most of whom have been sloberring over the previews of this "faithful" version of DUNE. Well, after watching last night on SciFi -- I can appreciate what the new mini-series is trying to do, but it is falling short.
Last night Duke Leto seemed to heavily tranquilized -- was William Hurt sleepwalking through this performance? The mini-series does not hint that Paul is exceptional or special other than his dreams, and he comes off instead as a spoiled-brat. This is supposed to be more faithful to the novel, but significant (and easy-to-include) details were over-looked, like the stains on the Mentat's lips.
Lynch may have changed a few things, and his version was not long enough to tell the story properly -- but he captured the heart of the story, and gave us enough to actually CARE about the characters.
I'll tape tonight and tomorrow to see how this turns out, but so far I'm a bit disappointed. -
Let's face it. The Dune miniseries is in a lot of ways ending up being another Episode I for us Sci-Fi Fans. This has been so hyped lately as being the "accurate" version of Herbert's work and now that we are seeing it, it probably is not living up to that promise. We were expecting something that is not living up to our expectations. Star Wars Episode I did the same thing for us. Everyone was expecting the "second coming" and we didn't get it.
I think this is a good version of Dune. Let's face it, its TV folks. These guys didn't have a $200 million budget and I think they have done pretty good overall. I'm interested to see everyone's thoughts after the next two nights. -
Dec 04, 2000 1:15:39 PM CST
To those who read the book to "prepare" for the miniseries...
by mockingbird girl
... you're all morons. How did you *expect* a TV version to fare in a side-by-side comparison with the original novel? As for this nitpicking about the color of the characters' lips and the lack of star power in the cast... you've got to be kidding. I'm sure we're all looking forward to your infinitely more faithful adaptation with its unlimited budget. And when will that be, again?
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Personally SciFi is doing a much better job than in the past. Imagine that this adaptation came out without having the Lynch film to use as an example. This version does a better, albeit not much better job of setting up the scenes. The CGI was pretty good, considering the budget that they had to work with. I do agree that William Hurt needed some caffeine or something to wake him up. The sets were excellent except when you look outside the windows of the Palace on Arrakis the view looked really fake. Also...Off Topic....Rented Gladiator on DVD this weekend...WOW!!!!!, excellent flick...:)
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But so what? We knew it was going to. DUNE (the novel) is unfilmable. Hell, it's barely adaptable. The casting is all wrong and there is no sense of nobility in any of the houses (that said, it was such a pleasant change to see the Baron have more brains and balls than Leto). The costume design is just screwy (I assumed it was by Mobieus, but it appears it's a poor imitation of him). The effects are largely forgetable (the worms do work though at least what we saw in part 1). Four more hours of so-so telvision; it's not like there's anything better on.
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After watching the first installment of the Dune miniseries I have to say I am impressed. Does it have problems? Certainly but they so far have not detracted from the story. Some of the characters are close to my mental images from the book. While others like Dr. Yueh and Thufir Hawat are not even close. But once again this does not really make that big a difference. The Lynch film was visually stunning and while I enjoyed it was missing the physical combat which was a major part of the book. The sheild technology made energy and projectile weapons obsolete. So hand to hand combat and edged weapons became extremely important in warfare. The reason the emperor was able to maintain power was because his Sardukar were the best fighters in the galaxy. Born and bred on the emperors prison planet only the strongest and most skilled fighters survived and only the best of these became Sardukar. The Fremen raised on Arrakis were from an even more hostile environment making them better fighters than the Sardukar. The film completely blew off these concepts instead opting for a gimic tho explain Fremen superiority. Imagine these concepts done on the big screen with someone like John Woo directing them. It would be killer. The miniseries has placed a greater emphasis on hand to hand combat and I am hoping that they continue the trend.
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I have to say I'm looking forward to tonight's "chapter" of the miniseries. Sure, there are some things that bother me. Irulan at the dinner party, Leto being on sedatives, and Duncan dying from a ship's rocket (what the hell?), but looking back on it, they're really not earth-shaking.
Lynch's version, however, failed for me on two levels - those who watched it with me and hadn't read the book were more often than not lost, and of course, the internal dialogue.
Thank you, Sci-Fi, for dropping all the internal dialogue. It works in book form, but not for movies, dammit! It slows everything down and becomes an annoyance.
There are other minor quibbles, but nothing severe. I'm looking forward to adding this to my DVD collection, that's for damn sure.
And how about those shields? -
Good review, I'm with him for the most part. This is just my rambling review. They got the Baron just right so far. And this was a much better portrayal of the Beast Raban. Agree with the above comment about the gom gabbar. Easily the most disappointing scene so far. Lynch did nail that one. Visually, they've done a wonderful job. The costumes are great, except the mentats. But, I think they've done a rather poor job with the mentats (both Piter and Thufir) in general. Dr. Yuey was OK, except they kind of just sprung him on the audience. Don't really display the level of his motivation and his relationship with Jessica and Paul. My wife (who hasn't read the book) was like, "who's he?." Had to explain the whole Yuey thing to her. Much better job on Liet/Kynes. Lynch botched that one. Like the Shadukar, Emporer and Irulan. Didn't like the fact that she was at the dinner, but if I had to guess, they wanted to soften the blow of Paul's "proposal" at the end. I reserve judgement on this diversion of the story. My view of the cast so far:
The Baron and Raban: Great job.
Paul, Jessica, Liet/Kynes, Irulan, the Emporer: Good job.
Gurney and Duncan: OK.
Leto: Great choice, poor direction/performance.
Stilgar & Feyd: Still too early to really judge.
The Reverand Mother, Piter, Thufir: piss poor.
The story itself is very faithful (Irulan at the dinner is the only glaring exception). I've noticed the lines aren't as straight out of the book as Lynch's but they seem to try to mix what would be in their head into what they are saying. I think that's been very effective on explaining some things. I told my wife that she is gonna need to listen carefully to every word spoken after the first night. One other thing I think they have been ineffective at doing is portraying the level of awe and wonderment people feel towards Paul. They haven't REALLY shown him to be special, or more to the point: THE ONE. Oh well, still entertaining and defenitely give kudos to Sci-fi and put my vote in for a Dune Messiah, which should translate to film a lot better than Dune. One final nitpick (which both the film & the miniseries is guilty of): Why are they compelled to show the Guild Navigator. He (It?) isn't seen until Dune Messiah. Why bother showing something that will have an important speaking part in Dune Messiah and locking yourself into an image. Don't see the necessity for that. And kudos to those on this forum. It's the most adult Talkback I've seen in a while. Good Job! -
personally, i thought the first part of the lynch version wasn't half bad. So i was eager to see what could be improved on.
but so far, im not a big fan of the costume design. I expected stillsuits to be a bit more, well, everywere. And whats with the headgear?
I think the worst part is that a friend of mine was watching, and he was totaly lost.
I fear that the sci-fi version is trying to put as much distance between itself and the lynch version as possible. Even the good parts. No inner monologue hurts too.
And how are they going to ghola idaho if he's been incinerated? I thought half the reason they brought him back was his legendary last stand in which he killed 20(?) sadukar. Oh well, heres hoping tonight is better. -
It's a great primer for what may one day be. I thought the portrayl of Dr. Kynes was terrific, maybe the best of the series so far. Liked the Third Stagers too. Maybe someday a GREAT movie will be culled from these books, but it may be one of those stories that best remains a movie of the mind. I think Alex Proyas could do a good turn on this, the Wachowski's obviosuly, Ridley Scott. What would be cool is if they made it into an event/director's series, using the same cast but allowing time to pass over the course of the films. You know, Scorcese does part one, Ridley Scoot does part two, Cameron does part three, Fincher does one...just a cool dream though.
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Last night after watching the first installment, I went back and got out my copy of Dune and looked up several of the scenes, especially things that seemed WRONG to me from the show.
To my amazement, on several instances, my memory had been affected by the 1984-version to the point where I thought that was how it was in the original.
So I guess I would recommend that you all be sure to judge this version against the TEXT of the original book, not your MEMORY of the original book, as I have found my memory to be tainted by the film.
My one glary omission was the line that they cut from the Litany - "fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration." I missed that line! - Jubal -
...is this any better than Lynch's version. I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but, after the first installment, I was very very disappointed. As someone mentioned previously, the version seems to be decidedly *unlike* Lynch's version, which is obviously on purpose. The things that Lynch did correctly in his film, he did PERFECTLY. The casting was fantastic, the acting was fantastic, the mood was incredible. The mini-series has none of it - not one thing has been nailed. I couldn't care less about any of the characters introduced so far - amateurish acting, directing and writing. And the Harkonnens and Geidi Prime look like a crappy one-off villian from the original Batman TV series. The Lynch portrayal of the Harkonnens (although not spot-on with the book) is, IMHO, one of the most intense represtations of an antagonist ever in a Science Fiction film, and what this series has done to even my memory of Lynch's version is almost unforgivable. The look and feel of the Emporer and his environment looked like a Sid & Marty Krofft invention. And as has also been mentioned, the details (which are such an integral part of both the book AND the Lynch film) are just gone - the mentat stained lips, Yueh's tattoo, etc - and even if they are not explained, they add so much to the universe that we are trying to take part of. Such a waste of an opportunity...
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#1: I'm a huge fan of Herbert's books and I think Lynch's film has grown fonder in my mind with age. I very much wanted to like the new TV version.
#2: I will continue to watch parts 2 and 3 of the Sci-Fi Miniseries, which I think is uneven, but a good, fairly reverent (in terms of respect for the mythos, not the text, if you can dig that) attemp at bringing the story to a new audience.
#3: When Vlad told us that Leto is "completely paralyzed," I laughed out loud. Hurt had been paralyzed for 2 hours already -- even in bed with Jessica, poor thing. Nothing compared to the passion of Jurgen Prochnow screaming, "RUN!" to the dune men in Lynch's movie.
#4: On a more serious note: My wife, who has never read the books, had a lot of trouble understanding the story for the first hour, so for the second, I focused on plotline from my attempt at a newcomer's perspective. I got lost pretty quickly. The miniseries is pretty unsatisfying in depth to the newcomer, methinks.
That is all. Enjoy the show. -
Thought I'd weigh in here. My first contact with "Dune" was not the Lynch movie, but the original novel, which I'd read about ten years prior to the film's release. When I saw the film, I found it to be a complete wash as an adaptation but an interesting film in its own right. What made it fail as an adaptation for me, primarily, was Lynch's basic lack of interest in making it convincing AS A SCIENCE FICTION STORY. Lynch WAS interested in creating neat Lynchian environments (dripping pipes, Victorian technology, etc.) and he did that. But the narrative seemed like a vehicle for Lynch's own hobbyhorses, nothing more. Case in point: the absolutely fundamental flaw that at the end of the film, it "rains on Arrakis", which basically means that Paul IS some kind of magic messiah, when the WHOLE POINT is that he ISN'T. Yes, the movie is interesting-looking. But is it fundamentally even interested in being an accurate adaptation? Certainly not on any deep level.
Now the miniseries. What else do we have on the SF channel? Farscape. The Invisible Man. Babylon 5. As television goes, pretty standard fare. Which is preamble to the statement that while I saw some weaknesses in the first episode, they positively pale in light of the fact that this is an exceptionally high-quality adaptation.
What flaws there were were more structural and internal to the miniseries itself than in terms of its faithfulness to the book. Example of a minor flaw: Dr Yueh is not given a "big scene" early on in the episode so that we'll have a clear memory of who he is once he steps in to betray the Duke. This is a STRUCTURAL flaw in either the script or the final edit, but to call the producers on the carpet for being "inaccurate" is just beside the point.
Other "inaccuracies" I see as being just interesting choices. I like the CHOICE of Paul being a little sullen, as it makes his character arc more clear -- and sets up the parallel between him and Feyd-Rautha more clearly. And there's at least one place where John Harrison's script improved on the book. In the movie, after ther Reverend Mother tests Paul, he confronts Jessica angrily, asking why the heck she did it. Now I've been wondering that ever since I read the novel. It's a narrative flaw in the book that the fact that Jessica's just put Paul's life in danger never comes back into the narrative. Harrison improves on the original by suggesting that the Bene Gesserit basically forced her into it. Another instance: Herbert got away with having Irulan not appear until the end of the novel by having her be the "author" of all the little citations at the top of the chapters in the book, and Harrison doesn't have that option. He solves that problem by inserting her into the story earlier, and in a very reasonable place: the banquet.
But enough defending the changes. Look at the production. It's beautiful. Set design and costume design are wonderful. That Guild spaceship is exquisitely designed. The actors are damned interesting. (I'm particularly pleased with Liet Kynes, who really conveys a quality of having "gone native".) The ornithopters are, think what you will about accuracy, far superior to Lynch's. The "sandworm gobbling the spice mining vehicle" scene is, well, wonderful. And for me at least, the story feels like it's set in a COHERENT SCIENCE FICTIONAL ENVIRONMENT, a real place with a real history behind it. And it feels "otherworldly", genuinely distant form our time, in a way that few SF films even try.
It feels like the book.
Yeah, sure, it's not perfect. But that's a trivial statement: of course it's not perfect. For me, the important fact is, it's probably the best -- AND most accurate, both to spirit and letter -- adaptation of a science fiction novel I have ever seen. I congratulate John Harrison.
Adapting a science fiction novel to screen is an interesting exercise. It's like a game. How well do you play? With the Lynch version, I feel like Lynch was just playing a different game. But I feel like Harrison played better than anyone else who's tried his or her hand at it. I'm grateful.
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Well, having thought about it some more, thought I'd briefly make a second post about the first part - just share a couple of more observations and hopefuly not to nitpick too much :) One - the lady that plays Jessica reminds me far too much of Troi from ST:TNG - mainly its the voice - they just sound the same. Second, I have to say that if there's one thing the Lynch film got right, it was the stillsuits - very much like Herbert described, though even there they didn't cover the whole face etc. Here they looked sort of silly - and you sure can't tell their purpose by looking at them the way you can in Lynch's film. Third, I think it would have been cool if they had used Irulan as a narator (the way the Lynch film starts out doing but then stops after the intro) - one of the coolest things about the book is the quotes from Irulan's (and other) writings at the beginning of each chapter. If she had voiced over these quotes at appropriate parts of the miniseries, it probably would have added a lot, especially if that would have meant that the director / script writer would not have found it necessary to have her appear out of the blue at the dinner. It is very interesting that in Irulan's first scene, someone comments that she has leanings of a literary nature - which is saved for the end of the novel and I can't imagine how bothering to include that quote will pay off here without the chapter headings. Fourth, with regard to the way Idaho's death was handled - I was quite a bit dissapointed too cause as the scene unfolded (and having just seen Gurney deal with one of the Sardukar himself) I was highly anticipating watching Duncan go down in a blaze of glory in the tunnels of the sietch, just like in the book, and then the missle comes. However, in defense of what they did even if they didn't have Duncan dying in a manner true to the book, at least they killed him off at the right time in the story according to the book and didn't just leave it to the reader to assume his death. Anyways, my last observation is this - for anyone to ever do Dune justice on screen, even 6 hours is not nearly enough, which is sad because that probably means it will never be done correctly. So in that sense I can't fault the producers and directors and Sci Fi for sort of falling short here - but I just have to ask why are they attempting the impossible? I really don't see who they made this series for - judging from the first night anyone who has read the book probably gets dissapointed, and most people who haven't read the book just end up getting lost. I'm frankly suprised that CNN and other sources have given positive reviews to this - I think honestly that if Lynch had never made his movie and this came out, it would have universally met with the same cold reception that Lynch's version did for primarily the same reasons - which really in the end aren't the true fault of either effort - its just too much to squeeze into a film based format.
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We all knew there would be a great deal of compression in this effort to bring Dune to the small screen, or any screen for that matter. We were told this version would be more true to the original written version, and we were encouraged. I understand that for the sake of budgets and time sacrifices must be made, but I think they may have cut too deeply. It seems like the SCI-FI version is struggling to create a distance from the Lynch version, and suffering for the effort. Why were there no scenes on Caladan? Kyle Maclachlan certainly seemed to feel more pain in his box, and the training scene with Gurney. In fact, I never got the impression that anyone except Duncan was a truly trusted advisor. We have no sense that Mentat's are worth anything... My hope is that while the Lynch version did a fine job on part 1, where this effort suffered, Sci-Fi will do a better job in part 2 where Lynch was so very weak. Weirding module?? Lastly, why doesn't anyone ever represent Piter de Vries with the blue within blue eyes? His addiction was fairly important to his character. I figure I'm entitled to one nit picking detail.
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....There's a little something called: Artistic License. "Dune" is one of the least FILMABLE NOVELS OF ALL TIME!!!!! Yet, you twirps are constantly bitching about how this wasn't done and how that wasn't done. Get a fucking grip. You've gotten two adaptions of one book in your lifetime, how many times does that happen to a sci-fi novel? Not very fucking often. The original movie, (Which I LOVE, stupid interior monologues and all.) was far from perfect, but on it's own a GREAT FILM. This mini-series? Pretty fucking decent. You guys who constantly adhere to "THE MOVIE MUST BE SHOT SCENE FOR FUCKING SCENE FROM THE BOOK!" are morons. There's no possible way and even if there was, what self-respecting director would want to fucking do that? The point of "ADAPTING" a novel to film is to bring THE MAKER'S VISION of the book to life, not the writer's. If certain things are left in or out, tough shit and get over it. Assholes like you are the reason why we don't see this kind of thing more often. "The Fans" a bunch of psychotic fuckwits who can't see the ocean for the water and bitch and complain about everything. Personally, I'm happy anyone made an adaption out of it. I think the original film and the new mini-series are pretty damn good. They were done with respect and scope and style. (The score in the original film is one of the best scores of all time!) You're constantly bitching, because it wasn't good enough. Well, fuck you. You could've ended up with "Battlefield Earth". So count your blessings that the people who made the films gave a shit about the source material and shut your mouths.
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Tender Branson is totally right. You idiots need to get a grip and have some damn apreciation. I can't believe how picky you all are. Go and make your own damn version of the movie if you think its so easy. I am very grateful to the SCI FI chanel for taking the risk to make us an enjoyable show. It is better than most of what is even in the theater right now. So if you don't like it then just go back to watching buffy or something.
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"The MATRIX in a way is what Lynch's DUNE should have been kinda like." - QTN
You are an idiot. Now whenever I see a post from you on this board I will run to the bathroom so that can take a big hairy dump and imagine your pimply, fanboy face in my toilet. Your mother must hate you. I must go now... there is dumping to be done.
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I didn't think last night was all that bad, but upon re-evaluation, it could have been done much better. But you know what? It ain't ever gonna be better unless someone forks over a ton of cash to do it right. The biggest problem with this production was the casting. To do Dune justice, you need top flight actors in all the parts. The one guy who I felt got the most screwed was the guy who played Duncan. He was good. He should have played Paul. I also like the woman who plays Jessica. She's not how I pictured Jessica, but she can act (unlike some of the other cast members)It also would have been nice if more had been done on location. As for the costumes, I liked them. ******Other major issues I have are that the mini-series misses out on a lot of the details that Lynch got right. He massacred the story in many ways, but he did get details right. There should have been more about Thufir Hawat, but his character got the shaft. I'm also really disappointed with the treatment of Irulan. It seems like she's just been stuck in a bunch of scenes so they could use her. I still think that best way to use her would have been as narrator. The other major problem is that is you haven't read the book, you won't get it. The best thing about this thing so far is that is long enough to really do the epic story justice. What this mini-series really needed most was more money for better casting, a better director, and a better screenwriter. But I guess I must realize that no one will ever get Dune right because to do so would cost more than Titanic did, and would never go over with the public.
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So far, so good on the Dune miniseries. The look is very interesting, and the color scheme seems mostly right (in comparison to the Lynch disaster, which was garish nonsense). The cast is pretty good, not great. This Paul isn't deep enough, but remember that the foppish Kyle McLachlan was horribly cast in the Lynch flick. We are missing Patrick Stewart as Gurney and Jurgen Prochnow as Duke Leto, but SciFi doesn't have the budget for more names beyond the cast-against-type William Hurt, who's okay. While this is generally far more coherent and faithful to the story and message of the novel, I'm intrigued by the invention of a role for Princess Irulan. She plays a big role in Herbert's Dune Messiah after being little more than a cypher in Dune. Not so here. The actress who plays Irulan is a find, and should be especially good when SciFi produces Dune Messiah. I also like this Jessica, though she's admittedly not the great beauty I've always pictured. But so what? She's quite attractive and intelligent, and holds the screen well. Let's keep our fingers crossed for the third night.
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First installment was good I even liked John Hurt as The Duke.Second installment started to piss me off until the scene where Jessica uses the "weirding way" to subdue Stilgar.Oh yeah I like the maker hooks in this version a lot more than the shovel in Lynch's version.I still have a love /hate relationship with the first version.I hated the Sauduker costumes I hated the cartoon villian overacting of Paul Smith ,the dramatic pauses,the weirding modules, the rainstorm at the end. I loved Kyle's portayal of Paul, the costumes ,the Guildsmen and the score.
In this vesion I really like the sandworm design, the sets,(especially the palace on Arrakis)the ornithopters, the Sauduker uniforms,and the portrayals of Jessica,Gurney,The Baron,Stilgar,Duncan and Liet.Good overall. -
I said above I'd try to keep an open mind, but the longer I watch this series, the more disappointed I am. I think Kjram got the essence right: the problem isn't so much the lack of faithfulness to the book, but the failure to develop the characters, the themes and the background in an understandable and coherent (to the unfamiliar viewer) way. It gives you a new appreciation for the things Lynch DID get right. For example, we have a much greater understanding for Dr. Yueh in Lynch, because he gets some screen time with Paul early on; we understand his role and his motivations a little better. THAT'S why it's important to keep that scene where Yueh gives Paul his O.C. Bible. With Harrison, he's largerly wallpaper, a throwaway character - I had to explain to my non-fan wife just who was again when Paul tells Jessica that Yueh was the traitor. Hell, come to that, I had to explain a LOT to my wife, which is a sign that Harrison did an even worse job than Lynch in exposition of the Dune universe and the characters, despite having 3.5 extra hours to do it in. Perhaps most disappointing is hearing the endless line about how faitfhful this production will be, only to watch major alterations - which don't make it more understandable or coherent. As someone said here, Lynch got most of the details right but botched the story, while Harrison manages to botch both, by and large. ********The series isn't a total loss; some of the actors (especially Jessica) are well cast, some scenes that didn't make Lynch's version finally get depicted, and some of the effects - the worms, the Guild Navigators, the heighliners - are actually better. The whole thing has the feel of a slightly high budget Star Trek episode, doesn't it? Having said that, I applaud Sci-Fi for giving it a shot - and I hope these criticisms don't dissuade them from filming the other books.
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A few observations about the two versions. First, both versions are far from perfect. However, the Lynch version suffers from the "I am the great filmmaker and this is how the story should have been" syndrome. At least this latest version seems to pay some respect to Herbert.
Second, Paul was a whiny, headstrong brat and the story is really the transformation of his character from a person that was to be given a noble birthright to one that must forge his own. So far, the latest version seems to have it right but we will see what happens in this last installment. The Lynch version portrayed a good "late" Paul.
Third, it is hard to point at anything in this new version and call it silly without giving props to the Lynch "Weirding Module". -
I write the following as a Dune fan, not a fan of Science Fiction(which I am)
How can anyone say this mini series is good who has read any of the Dune books, especially the first book. So it is made for TV, that is understood. But, Harrison is just going through the motions. Who cares if he does every scene, if not one seen has an ounce of depth.
How can you attempt Dune without the internal monologues. That is where each person true depth, intellect, and skill are displayed.
Harrison & the actor who plays Paul, have gotten the character completely wrong, he comes of weak, pouty, and 1 dimensional.
The mini-series is completely overlooking the deeper Islamic & Christian overtones and the Middle East, oil, Opec connections. The interworkings of the Feudal society are lost. And the true depth of the plans, the deciept, and betrayal are barely addressed.
One good thing came from this miniseries...A better appeciation for David Lynch's film. I skipped many scenes but at least he got a fraction of the depth Herbert intended. -
After watching part 2, I think we really need to chill on judging this thing until it's over. Part 2 was right where Part 1 was wrong. Major casting blunders in part 1 were made up for by the great casting of Chani, Reverend Mother Romallo, and Stilgar (and on a low-brow note, I agree with the above poster that Chani is mispronounced but she is a Major Babe). I think they did just about as good as they could given the time constraints on this part of the novel. They even have Fenring (even though his role isn't fully explained). And I agree that Irulan's insertion throughout will ease the end where her role is defined. Good use of artistic license on this part. And I've noticed they corrected (or clarified) a couple of things in the first part of the series. The Freeman are actually calling Paul "Maudi" not "Muad'dib" which is what they called him the book (an above poster said they were inferring that Muad'dib meant the "one who will come". It was Maudi afterall. They do show Muad'dib as meaing the desert mouse.) And, if you saw the previews for Part 3, the whole Jessica as traitor storyline did not get forgotten. And they did a much better job of showing Paul as the Kwisach Haderach. There were some gripes about this not being mentioned in Part 1. These concerns should be alieviated now. And they showed the orgy (as much as can be done on TV). Never thought that would happen. They left out Jamis' wife & kids, but they weren't key to the story really. The only minor quibble with Part 2, is that Feyd is insufficiently nasty I think, but that's a minor quibble. They have the shown his parallel to Paul well, which is the major part of the story. And I guess I'm in the minority here, but I really like the way the Harkonnens (the Baran and Rabban inparticular) are being portrayed. No boils, no heartplugs. They can be conniving and evil without any body mutations. Still not big on the Reverand Mother Mohiam, but I'll get over it. And would it kill them to define which planet they are on? My wife (who hasn't read the books) got a little lost when they kept switching between Geidi Prime and Arrakis during the Water of Life/Feyd Birthday Party scenes. Overall, I had very mixed feelings after the first night, but after Part 2, I am definately more positive. Great job with Chani and the rest of the Fremen.
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Someone here mentioned my earlier posting as saying that the flaw in this miniseries is that it doesn't set up a coherent science-fictional world, and I just want to reiterate that that's exacty what it DOES do, and why it's much more of a "serious" adaptation than Lynch's, which was basically a vehicle for his own concerns. Anyway, as for the second episode? Absolutely loved it. I won't even mention quibbles because they just don't bloody matter. I feel like the whole production really started to shine here. Look what we got: a visually arresting, wonderfully moody, and ethnographically AND ecologically detailed representation of the Fremen and Fremen life! This is SO close to the book, and what made the book so mysterious and wonderful, that I can only think that Herbert would be shedding copious precious tears were he to see it. Also, I was grateful to see the episode emphasizing that the Bene Gesserit had a hand in exploiting the Fremen legends, which is a key point in the novel. (By the way, I saw this episode with a friend who hadn't read the book, and he got every single plot point, even in places where I assumed he wouldn't.) Remember everyone, adaptations aren't easy. Especially adapations of science fiction novels, and especially ones as complex as "Dune". This is a SMART adaptation. Carping on flaws is beside the point. (Though DISCUSSING them is interesting from a theoretical standpoint, acting like the world "owes" you a perfect adaptation is not so interesting.) So as far as Episode Two goes, let's give it up for John Harrison. I really feel like he delivered the goods.
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*Ahem*
Please allow me to add my thoughts to this most worthy subject. I'd like to start by pointing out that (and its so obvious I shouldn't have to write it but...) the different mediums everyone is comparing against is quite different and should be treated differently. A book is much different than a movie. A movie is much different than a miniseries for different reasons. (Where else can we see so many dang Sun commercials for starters!) In this respect one can only pay homage and/or differentiate where the need arises. Having said that I'd like to say to all the naysayers (And there are so many of you), learn what you are looking at and try not to impose your net of thought onto it. The first step in understanding is knowing that you do not know. My greatest joy in watching this series so far is not knowing what exactly to expect next. Lines which are changed from both the book and movie ("Tell me of the waters of your home world,
Muad'Dib") to be more poingnant and lean are both necessary and elegent. Scenes which are changed for the medium such as the hunter-seeker scene, which was probably the most to-the-book scene from David Lynch's Dune (DLD), was changed to get rid of those blasted voice-over-thoughts. ( Side note: The voice overs was the NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT from the series so leaving it behind was more than necessary). Other scenes were added compared to the movie and then changed from the book to get the point across (Dinner scene for example). Yet others where so to the book, it was beautiful (Jamis' fight and funeral). And still, yet other scenes where omitted due to their lack of addition to the plot point due to such a short amount of time. Witness that the first movie drastically cut down the scenes where Thufir is being manipulated by the Baron Harkonen and that the mini-series doesn't include it whatsoever as if they did it on cue. With all these points in mind, all in all what we are witnessing is probably most of what we can expect from a visual adaptation of dune.
The watermark by which you can identify a visual book interpreatation is how much you have invested yourself into what you are seeing and how much you can understand. If it gets the point across and you're on the edge of your seat, even if you haven't read the book, then they've succeeded. So now the question is, what is the main point of the book? And since the Sci-Fi Channel is going to the next two books, what is the main point of the series?
Well there are two points really. First theres the bigee...The Fallacy of the Messiah... The archetype of so many stories of our religions/myths and of course the cause of so many deaths of our people in his name. Paul doesn't want this but has no choice and the universe pays
the price. The Bene Gesserit prepares DUNE with this classic myth and everyone falls hook line and sinker, including Paul. If we come out of this with the sad thought that the Messiah/Mahdi is a desperate and regretful outcome of the entire ordeal then maybe, just maybe, we can grow past it and truly show our
growth when the time comes again.
Secondly, on the science fiction aspect, the whole book series can't get off the fact that a Kwisatz Haderach can "see" into the future. Later on, everyone is so scared that another KH will come along and lock them into a present where nothing is new. In other words, seeing into the future makes the present into the past and locks them forever out of the unknowable present such as the one we enjoy today where anything can and does happen. His son, Leto II, was the only one who could bring them out of what Paul Muad'Dib did to them. And if the Sci-Fi Channel is going to do the next two books, they MUST at least do God Emperor Dune which in my opinion is the most interesting and rewarding of all the books. The last two books which deal with the BG almost exclusively, I -
Dec 05, 2000 10:15:54 AM CST
Harrison deliberately misled about being faithful to the book.
by kernelm
I see a lot of people trying to defend the major deviations from the book by saying that the director had to take artistic licenses, that Dune is unfilmable. I agree with that. However, in many interviews, John Harrison repeated said that his Dune would be completely faithful to the book, and _not his interpretation_. It's obvious he's either lying or hasn't read the book very carefully. Frankly, we already have one movie loosely based on the book, why do we need another?
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Loving the series so far, but two quibbles: 1) Does Stilgar strike anyone else as more of a New Jersey dock supervisor than Fremont clan leader? 2) If there was one scene they shouldn't have brought forward from the Lynch series, it was the "blurry sandworm mouth" which threatened Paul and Jessica as they huddled in a mountain crevice. And for you rabid fanboys I'll say it again in case you didn't hear me the first time: if you want to enjoy the adaptation of ANY novel, do not reread the novel "in preparation" for the TV/movie event. (I even remember thinking The Godfather sucked because I read the book a week before I rented the video for the first time.)
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Actually, Harrison has talked about 'his interpretation', and blanket statements saying otherwise are just false. Check it out:
http://www.fandom.com/master_site/editorial.asp?action=page&obj_id=247567
I can see how a lot of the changes came about now. Especially the princess playing a bigger role. It makes more visual sense, anyhow, and sets up the finale and forthcoming sequels.
Laters. -
So, why is it that, in liking Part 2 better than Part 1, that my respect for this whole enterprise is instead plummeting? Maybe it's because I finally realize that John Harrison can't, as Harlan Ellison once said of another director, direct his way to the bathroom. I have a lot of issues with the writing which I'll get to, but over and over, Harrison sabotages them with inane staging which has zero comprehension of dramatic thrust. Every scene should tell its own story, with a beginning, middle, and end, but we're not treated to that basic storytelling tenet but seldom. For all its truncating, Lynch's version never felt like a dispassionate Cliff's Notes pastiche - it just felt like a miniature version of Herbert's immense universe. This six-hour enterprise, OTOH, is the emotionally distant play-by-play. How many concepts and scenes did Lynch nail with just the right adaptation brushstroke? Harrison doesn't have any of that ability to find just the right moment from the book to encapsulate. I hate to keep going back to the gom jabaar scene, but look - the scenes in both versions run roughly the same length, and yet the mini can't seem to deliver even half as much plot information or character development.
Not that there aren't moments when they remember what they're supposed to be doing. The water of life scene was fairly strongly rendered (maybe because, like the best scenes in this version, it was largely visual and, dare I say, cinematic), as was Jamis and the tears for the dead. But Harrison's penchant for updating, modernizing and pointlessly altering the scenes weakens so much in the production. Besides the idiotic Irulan scenes in Part One ("don't judge a book by its cover?" Ha! In a series so ripe with new sayings and aphorisms, his first instinct was to recycle the oldest cliche he could find), he keeps sabotaging little things with great meaning. There is not a reason in the world to omit, for instance, Usul. Remember, this is a Jesus-in-the-wilderness parable. Muad'dib should be a term more or less equivalent to "Christ." But the apostles didn't go around saying, tell me about such-and-such parable, Christ. They called him rabbi, master, teacher - they personalized him. Usul should serve the same purpose. But I guess it's just tantamount to the larger issue of how this series does not understand Paul and his role. Paul Atreides must be an extraordinary boy, one who is perhaps scared of his destiny, but confident, constantly open to new knowledge, and at all times aware of living up to his responsibilities. He is a royal heir, and he KNOWS it (witness the excellent Lynch scene with Gurney, Thufir and Yueh). He is NOT going to weep that he's "a freak" in the middle of the desert, as visions unfold around him and he reels from the destruction of his House. And I really despise the constant modernizing of the dialogue. It reminds me of the ever-popular The Book version of The Bible, colloquialized and simplified and stripped of all its luscious language. Maybe it's done so we can "relate" to the characters better. I don't want to relate. I want the sense of an epic struggle between great forces. I want "May THY blade chip and shatter." I want that quasi-medieval sensibility.
Oh well. In the end, as Goldman says, you can't be literally true when adapting a book, but you must be true to its tone and intentions. Alas, if we have to judge Dune by that standard, especially regarding its characters - for all its strengths and visual splendors, the miniseries is an intelligent, well-intentioned, but increasingly lost opportunity. -
I hadn't seen that article before. I'm mainly referring to an article at the official site, http://www.scifi.com/dune/ask2.html Though Irulan does have a larger role in the later books, Herbert didn't introduce her until the very end for a very good reason: all of a sudden, all the chapter headings take on a new level of meaning. The only reason Irulan is the historian is because she has nothing better to do. The whole business with Paul and Irulan flirting with each other completely changes the dynamic of the final scene. Also, Chani is _not_ supposed to be a member of the household and that changes her character dynamic greatly as well! And something else which others have pointed out which might be perhaps the worst transgression by Harrison is the lack of water-discipline by the Fremen, and they walk across the sands in step! That wouldn't attract a worm at all, of course... A huge part of the book involves the importance of water on Arrakis, and it's almost absent here.
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There is so much I could say about this and I don't know where to start so I'm trying to be as concise as possible. With the exception of the imitation Japanese costume design ( a trend who's intrigue, I have to say, I am entirely exhausted of being affected by ) I think the art direction of the series is pretty impressive. I have never seen anything like it in television. I was really expecting the worst. The acting in this series is pretty bad. The dialogue in the book is so involving ( and I know that that has a lot to do with internal dialogues as well) but I'm really glad that they left them out ( "where are my feelings?...the-worm-IS-the- spice...the-spice-IS-the-worm" ). More than anything though I am glad the weirding modules have been jettisoned. That is to me the worst thing about Lynch's version. There are a few times that I have had to explain concepts to people that watched with me. I am really very happy that the fremen look like Arabs and not the nordic hippe cult of Thulsa Doom that we see in the Alan Smithee version. The shields rock!! The worms Rock!! Not much you can do about The Voice. I like Irulan and the Reverend Mother on Arakis. I can't wait to see St. Alia of the Knife. She's my favorite. I am scared about how she is handled, mostly because Paul has still not said anything about Jessica's lineage. Plus Is it just me or do Yueh and Thufir play an almost non-existent role in this version? Oh wow... I was supposed to be concise. I want to keep going but I must control myself.
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good thing i read the book cuz my wife had no freakin clue what was going on i had to explain everything to her.lady jessica was much hotter in the lynch version, and leto was more manly.
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From Cinescape online: "The first part of the Sci Fi cable channel's original DUNE mini-series was the single most watched program in the cabler's history. According to the trades, the first part scored a 4.6 rating which means the program was being watched in 3.06 million households. The previous record holder for the network was the pilot episode of their INVISIBLE MAN TV series, which pulled in 1.534 million households."
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I definitely thought the second night was better than the first, though it still had it's fallbacks. I absolutely cringed when Jamis said "May yer blade chip an' shatter." Ugh - this isn't Dune 90210, so why do they have to change the language of the book? I wish they hadn't left out the complication of Jamis' wife. And I'm a little confused about the Fremen's motive for attacking the Harkonnen so far. In the mini-series, they haven't defined one yet. In the book, if I remember correctly, they had at this point. I don't feel that they've made a clear distinction in the series between the Harkonnen soldiers and the Sardukar, because I found myself confused when Paul started training Fremen in the wierding way so that they would rival even the Sardukar. I found myself thinking "but they already do!" I didn't like Stilgar at first, but I think I like him pretty well now. I think I still like Lynch's Stilgar better, but still. (ha ha! Still - Stilgar - Stil - get it? Heh heh... sorry... ahem!)But anyway I think the second has done a good job of redeeming the first installment. Hopefully the third will follow suit.
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After reading some of your so-called "reviews" of the Dune Mini-Series, I have to conclude that those of you who revere the steaming pile of crap known as David Lynch's Dune must have been high when you originally saw it.
The only thing the Movie has over this mini-series was acting. Admittedly, that's alot...but to claim that Lynch "captured" Dune sounds more like rationalization for the stupid comments Frank Herbert made just prior to the Movie's release.
This mini-series gets it right in so many ways. Let me count them:
1) The follow the book rather faithfully. A tremendous feat considering the complexity of the novel. The changes that were made to the plot, did not distract from the story...but advanced it.
2) The Set design is terrific.
3) The Special effects are not "Phantom Menace" quality, but they are pretty darn good for a Television mini-series. [Betters than some "big budget" sci-fi flicks that have come out recently on the big screen].
4) The series does a MUCH better job of developing the culture of the Fremen than Lynch's movie does.
5) Expection to above acting rule...this Chani kicks ass over Sean Young. [How can anyone claim that she was a good choice for that role?]
6) This series DOES NOT copy Lynch's imagery. It copies the BOOK's imagery, which also inspired Lynch. There's a difference. The Worms are derived just as much from the 1960's and 70's painted covers to the books, as to the physical descripttions in the book itself.
7) The series explains in about 5 minutes, and in a simple, and intelligent way, the relationship between the worms and the spice. The Stupid movie has a dream-sequence disposition with whispered overdubs of things like "The Spice....the worms...the spice..." blah, blah, blah. You morons call that film-making? That ain't art, it's overindulgant crap.
Here are the ciriticisms:
Not enough time is spent explaining who and what Paul is or may be...other than tying him into the Fremen prophecies. No mention of the Kwisatz Haddrach is even made until 2/3 of the way through the 2nd installment. Even then, it's just an oblique reference when Jessica is changing the water, and capturing the reverend motehr's essence. This had to be developed earlier to make sense of it when Paul undergoes his transformation in the 3rd episode. I suspect he will have some sort of dialogue with his mother about it at that point...but it should have been developed sooner.
2) Who the hell are the Sardarkar? It's not explained very well. The best sense you get is that they are, essentially, the Emperor's Praetorian guard. But...they are also, according to the book, the fiercest, most ruthless, most feared, and never-been-defeated troops in the Empire. From what we see of them in the series, they appear to be overanxious marines with funny hats. Their undeatable nature must be known in order to appreciate the accomplishment of Paul's using Fremen troops to take them out. This also sets up the basis for his temporal power in the later books.
3) The Mentats. Not very well explained. Who are they? Why don't they have purple-stained lips? That has to be a conscious directorial choice. It cannot be a question of expense. I suspect that the director wanted to avoid the appearance that he was copying anything Lynch did.
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The reason the Fremen are attacking the Harkonnen is because the Harkonnen are NAZI-like bastards who rape, kill, oppress, and otherwise treat the Fremen likes dogs or slaves. This was apparent from early on in the series. If you notice, there's a bit of "Lawrence of Arabia" going on. [That was intended as part of the book, I might add].
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I had been anticipating the Dune miniseries for a very long time, and so far have mixed feelings about it, most of which have been born out by previous posts. My main question is why they downplay the character of Lady Jessica, who has always been my favorite character. Not until the middle of Part 2 did we really see how strong she is, what a consummate though fallible politician she is, that she is every way an equal to her husband, the heroic Duke Leto. (Though William Hurt didn't do much to convince me of Leto's wisdom and heroism - was Hurt on Seconal or something when he was shooting this? Maybe I just don't get him as an actor.) Saskia Reeves, the actress, is pretty cool, though doesn't have the regal quality Francesca Annis had in the Lynch version (which I more or less like). But in both versions they sapped the strength out of Lady Jessica. I don't understand these writers - they must be real misogynists.
Anyway, that's my only real gripe. Oh, except for the fact that yet again, the Fremen are walking rhymically in the desert - one of the coolest things in Herbert's depictin of Fremen culture and ways was the arhythmic walking on sand to fool the sandworms' attraction to rhythmic movement. -
I really enjoyed the additional exposition of the Fremen lifestyle and culture. Lynch's version never covered the complex and sophisticated culture of the Fremen. They seemed like a simple people who were waiting for a divine leader. Sci-Fi Dune showed them as very sophisticated people who are fierce warriors because of the old Darwinian theory of only the strongest survive. I really disliked Lynch's intro of the weirding modules because that defeated Herbert's central premise of human superiority over technology after the war against the machines. The new Dune showed the importance of hand to hand combat but failed to mention how the Emperor was threatened by the Duke not only because of his popularity but because he was developing an army whose skills rivaled his feared Sardurkar. My only gripes were the failure to further explore the intimate relationship Thufir and Yueh had with Duke Leto and Paul. Yueh's betrayal was emotionally flat and Thufir's failure to anticipate the Harkonnen attack was a non-issue. Lynch nailed both of those points excellently. A final note, kudos to the portrayal of Baron Harkonnen. He is finally shown as a master tactician and politician who sacrifices his planet's wealth just to rid himself of his hated enemy. I wish they included his education of Rabban on how much their military expedition cost them.
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Well, I wanted to just share a few observations on part 2 - if I sound overly critical please don't take it that way - its just me longing for this to have been a bit better than it was - but still I am enjoying it (which is what counts in the end) and I thank SciFi for the attempt.
Ok, first thing I've got to ask - has anyone noticed the pixelation effect around Baron Harkonnen and the other harkonnens dressed in red? I'm trying to figure out if this is meant to be the shimmering shield (if so, its horrible that they haven't really explained that) or if this is some digital compression artifact.
Also, did anyone who's read the book think that Voice sounds like a cheap vocoder (ala the type used to make the lizard voices in "V")? One thing for Lynch, the sound effects used for Voice were spot on - here its sort of silly.
In any case, some comments on part 2 - well, I saw at least two people say it and I'll repeat it - the actress who's playing Chani is seriously hot. I don't bring this up though just to type out some sort of cat call - the reason I bring it up is that as much as I enjoy looking at a pretty girl, I think that the casting of this actress as Channi was a bit of a mistake. I'll have to pull out my copy of Dune to see how Herbert first describes Channi, but from what I recall she was supposed to be pretty in a very non-obvious, rustic/desert sort of way - to cast a person in the role that would have every male Fremen in the sietch (and every male viewer) going 'hubba-hubba' every time they see her - well, its a minor flaw at best.
I do think that things were a lot better in part two, though, at least overall. To a large degree the story is followed much more closely and there are less silly deviations - except for the continuing screen presence of Irulan.
Another minor nit - Ramala was NOT a Bene Gesserit missionary in the book. She was similar to the reverend mothers of the Bene Gesserit because of the Bene Gesserit sending missions out to other worlds, including Arrakis, to indocternate locals with their type of religion in order that if any Bene Gesserit members ever needed to manipulate the locals, they'd be able to do so. I only bring this up because, even though it didn't really detract, it was yet another missed opportunity to really explain who the Bene Gesserit are and that they are seriously powerful (both individually and as a group) and not to be messed with lightly.
Two visual complaints (even though the visuals continue to be overall really good - I especially liked the smuggler/harkonnen 'hopters with the actual flapping wings last night) - first, a few of the back drops really looked two-dimensional - that should have never been allowed to happen in a mini-series with this level of ambition. Second, the water in the water cache that Channi shows to Paul was obviously CGI and hardly looked like water at all(really, they couldn't have filled a tank with real water????)
- I could barely tell that it was, which I think is also inexcusable.
I do have to give some props here, in that I thought the sequence where Jessica consumes the water of life (including Channi praticaly forcing it into her as described in the book - bravo!) and has the vision was very well done. Still, two problems here - first - the viewer who hasn't read the book is gonna be seriously confused as far as this 'changing the water' business is concerned - they have no way of knowing from this that she is able to see the water and (at least as I read the book) via some type of mind-over-matter rearage the molecules to straight H20. Second, why on earth did they wait to this moment to even mention the Kwisatz Hederach and the 'place where only he can look'. Uh - I think that's missing the point - the whole thing was that no female could look here and only the *male* Kwisatz Hederach can do this. Of course, the whole concept of the Bene Gesserit as a *sisterhood* trying to breed the male Kwisatz Hederach has completely been overlooked thus far.
My biggest complaint through part 2 is the fact that these Fremen have NO water discipline like that described in the book. They would NEVER venture outside w/o a stillsuit - and, to be blunt they sure as heck wouldn't strip naked and go for a roll in the sand as we saw Paul and Channi do. Not to mention the fact that Channi was crying. If Frank Herbert could see that he'd turn over in his grave. -
That's sarcasm, monkey-boy. Of course he's Mua'dib, but that's the name of the Messiah. Before he chugs the water of life, I believe he was named Usul amongst the fremen.
I like the mini-series pretty well, but I think the storytelling is not nearly as clearly done as in Lynch's. Yeah, you heard me. For example, is the woman who makes out with Feyd the Emperor's (eunuch) assasin's 'wife', or is it Princess Irulan? If it's the Princess, this storyline is all sorts of messed up. And this is stuff I just remember from reading the book a few years ago. Duncan? Thufir as a sly assassin-mentat? Chani being butt-ugly in profile? Frankly I'd rather they just omit facts rather than get them _wrong_. Lynch may have chopped things out, but at least what he left in was coherent and accurate. Finally, the dream-sequences have nothing on Lynch's version. When it comes down to it, is the bad blue-screening enough to make everyone run for cover under this? I don't think so. -
Nobody expects perfection. However, if for months before release the Sci-Fi channel is setting up interviews with cnn.com and all these other places to let the director crow about how faithful to the book it is, and how it's not a 'take' but a true adaptation of the novel to the screen, then it's pretty certain that we will CHECK with the book. And then when we discover innumerable glaring omissions or insertions, we will CALL them on it. If they just called it 'interpretive brain-candy' we'd complain less, and you wouldn't look quite so stupid.
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Dec 05, 2000 7:34:42 PM CST
Not great but good enough for me to tune in for the third part
by nazismasher
Well, it's not the greatest adaptation so far of a scifi classic, but I think it'll deserve at least some kudos if it can improve on the rushed anticlimactic battle at the end of the book.
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In the middle of watching the third part. I'm absolutely dumbstruck by the lengths to which they have gone. I really do think this version is more faithful to the book than Lynch's version. They didn't stick completely, but I definitely think they got more of it. And not only that, but they took the spirit of the story, and expanded in a variety of ways. I just saw water pour from the feet of Muad'dib. The Mahdi, "the one who brings water." Where in hell did this come from? It's not shown outright, but the clear implication is that Jessica was behind that little display... a more blatant manipulation of the Missionaria Protectiva I've never seen... it almost defies description. Not in the book, but in keeping with the spirit of the book. And they just showed the founding of the Shrine of Leto's Skull... something that appeared on the maps of Dune, but which was never described or discussed in any of the six novels. The miniseries took this a step further and gave us more. And the revealing of Jessica's Harkonnen lineage? Didn't this and the birth of Leto II occur in Dune Messiah? Yet still very interesting choices. But THIS I don't remember... since WHEN was Leto II killed by the Sardaukar?!?! It's been far too long since I've read the novels, but I'm fairly sure that the primary character of the 3rd and 4th didn't die in the 1st. Interesting this little focus on the Sardaukar captain, and Irulan's flirting with Feyd-Rautha, while totally out of line with the text, is certainly an intriguing notion (that isn't precluded by the text either, since we knew next to nothing about Irulan until the end of the novel). I think they committed sin at times during this mini-series... the sleeping duke, the lack of the Suk tattoo and the sappho stains (interestingly enough they maintained Gurney's vinewhip scar), the blasting of Duncan Idaho into tiny bits, destroying the spice by Water of Life in a pre-spice mass(?!) ... and by the way, Lynch's movie and the novel are now so intertwined in my mind that I can't recall if Thufir Hawat actually died in the novel, but I know that Lynch kept him alive in Harkonnen control, and that much did not happen here. But at the same time, I really think they committed art at times here. Especially during this third part. Alia was positively wicked, as she should be, the unnatural creature she is. Court fashion in the 102nd century is intriguing, to say the least. Triangles, and butterflies, and imperial girlie wings, and those funky ass conehead Spacing Guild weirdos. And, I swear in the last scene I saw a guy standing next to Fenring that looked like Bozo the Clown, complete with red hair on the sides of his head. But never mind that... the vision was stunning. The visions of the Jihad, the foreshadowing of the extinction of the worms, the greater part they gave Liet Kynes, and the whole Fremen mythology (for crissakes, they gave us the freaking Sietch Tau Orgy!!!), the final battle in Arrakeen, the way they bumrushed the Beast Rabban (this was awesome, but it would have made more sense if they'd shown more of the kind of Beast he really was. Lord Refa anyone?), and my favorite touch was returning in the end to the text in the that closed the novel, "I hope she finds solace in her writing." Overall a fascinating experience, for all its flaws. I definitely want to see them go on to do at least Dune Messiah, perhaps the others as well.
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Actually, the more I read these talkbacks, the more the novel series returns to me. Thufir was kept alive, and now I vaguely recall him being in subsequent novels as well. But they killed him off in the Harkonnen attack here. And yeah, Jamis' wife, given to Paul as a ghanima, I totally forgot about... if it's an important enough event in Paul's life that he names his daughter Ghanima, that certainly should have been in there, especially if they're making Dune Messiah. But still, it's just cool that we got Jamis at all, only one of about a million things missing from the Lynch version. One thing I don't understand though, from the novels that maybe someone can point out to me. The Reverend Mothers of the Bene Gesserit... did they take the water of life? And if so, where the hell do they get it from? If not, what makes them Reverend Mothers? It's clear that with the Fremen, their Reverend Mothers have all taken the water and so have the memories of all the Mothers who came before. I'd think the Bene Gesserit MUST take it don't they? How else do they see things? But where the hell do they get stunted worms from to get the water? Do they have a supply or something on Wallach IX? That almost seems impossible. It all really blurs together in my mind, it's been ages since I've read them all. And I guess they must have revealed Jessica's Harkonnen lineage in the first novel, because that certainly is an important feature in the confrontation with Alia and the Baron, an event which was not unimportant in her eventual slide into dementia (I loved her sinister little giggles in this miniseries, btw, but by the same token, I also loved that one shot of her in the Lynch version of her covered in blood with a bloodstained knife over the corpses of the wounded, rejoicing in the victory. Really chilling, and key to her character, being St. Alia of the Knife after all.) One other thing... they could have made a little more of Shai-hulud, which is really the center of Fremen culture in literally every way. They underplayed the reverence for the creature, I think, and they should have mentioned that crysknives are the teeth of the worms, at the very least. But still, this is a tremendous achievement for the Sci-Fi Channel.
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This week on "Little Mu'Adib And Pals", Mu'Adib discovers his chakra was stolen by a Sardukian saucier chef to make a wacky, worm stew for the Baron! Little Mu'Adib- Emo Philips, Chani-Brooke Shields, Mother Superior- Lauren Bacall, Baron- Rosie O'Donnell, Sardukian Chef- Dom Deluise and John Vernon as "The Mayor."
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I just got done watching Part 3 of the DUNE miniseries, and all together I was pleased. Compared to Lynch's film I liked the fact that the miniseries covered so much more detail than the movie. Like the fact that Baron Harkonnen was Jessica's father, two, the romance between Paul, and Chani was much better fleshed out, among other things. Also I liked the added level of detail given to Ghidi Prime (sp?) Feyd's involvement in the gladiator fights, and Feyd's attempt to kill Baron Harkonnen with the needle in the boy's thigh. I thought the miniseries did a good job of this by having the door to the room open, and there was the Baron with the dead boy. It showed that the Baron was a homosexual pediophile with a liking for Paul,like the book, without going into any detail that may have made the viewer uncomfortable, or too explicite for TV. So for more in depth coverage of the characters I applaude the SCI_FI channel, but for acting and visuals it has to go to the the original movie. The actors in the original movie gave a much better performance, and most of the visuals, though for character designs both versions had both their strong, and weak moments. Paul was too old looking in the miniseries, and Arrakis looked like one big stage play. No matter much of an "open or outdoor" shot they did, it still felt and looked liked a stage play, especially with the toying with the lighting. Though on the miniseries defense I will say everything else looked good from the Imperial palace, to Ghidi Prime looked good, and the Sardarkaur ABSOLUTELY< POSITIVELY, 100% looked better than those silly black radiation suites in the original movie.
My only real complaint about the series was some of the best dialogue from the book, and original movie was missing. For example before Paul and friends destroyed the Shield Wall Paul says something like" Stilgar do we have worm signal?" "Worm signal!? We have more worm signal that even God has seen!" or When the Emperor proclaimed" Send 55 legions of my Sardarkaur terror troops" But sir, that will include all of our reserves!" "Send the Sardarkaur! This is not war this is genocide!"
Sorry I don't have the book in front of me, but I hope you get the point. The former example shows how important the Sandworms will be in the upcoming attack, while the latter example shows the Emperor's hate for Paul and the Freman.
So the bottom line is yes, its not perfect, but it was still enjoyable, and I hope to see it on DVD soon, and any future installments the SCI-Fi channel might do.
Peace, Love, and Joy. -
When I was ten years old, my mom bought me The Dune Storybook by Joan D. Vinge, essentially a kids book based on the movie. It even had pictures. Reading that did not make me want to read the novel. Five years later, I saw the four hour version of the Lynch film on FOX. Seeing that did not make me want to read the novel. Tonight I finished watching the third part of Frank Herbert's Dune on the Sci-Fi channel, and I now want to read the novel. Make of that what you will.
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The Third Installment....stalled. There was too much to explain, and they did not get enough of it done, or crammed it all in together. One thing I did like, however, was that the final scene with the Emperor and the Baron had almost word-for-word dialogue from the book. Calling Muad-Dib a religious fanatic on the fringes of the empire. The Baron asking "is she a midget?" when Alia insults his fatt ass. [He did not say this out loud in the book, of course]. The Reverend Mother begging for Alia to "get out of [her] mind." It was all there.
Even the final fight scene with Feyd was accurate. Right down to the poison-tipped spikes coming out of his belt.
As I predicted...they briefly explained what the Kwisatz Haderach was in a dialogue between Paul and Jessica just before he drinks the Water of Life. The only problems was that you didn't really understand what the hell Paul was talking about when he "explained" his vision. It brougt back painful memories of the ending of "2001: A Space Oddesy."
If I recall...Paul's two Children are twins. So...I think that the Device of having Leto killed in this story was for Dramatic effect, more than anything. [I haven't read the book in 15 years].
Oe part of the book whcih I wish they had included was the description by the Emperor of how his Sardaukar raiding party, the one which netted him Alia as a hostage, was nearly wiped out by a bunch of "women, children, and old men." This highlighted the formidability of the Fremen. They still only briefly hinted at the fearsomeness of the Sardaukar in the assasination scene. [Which was not in the book, if I recall.]
Oh well. I think it could have used an extra two hours. The fatal flaw of this series was that it was too short. [You cannot do Dune well in even six hours. Hell...they took a week to do Shogun!]
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The Third Installment....stalled. There was too much to explain, and they did not get enough of it done, or crammed it all in together. One thing I did like, however, was that the final scene with the Emperor and the Baron had almost word-for-word dialogue from the book. Calling Muad-Dib a religious fanatic on the fringes of the empire. The Baron asking "is she a midget?" when Alia insults his fatt ass. [He did not say this out loud in the book, of course]. The Reverend Mother begging for Alia to "get out of [her] mind." It was all there.
Even the final fight scene with Feyd was accurate. Right down to the poison-tipped spikes coming out of his belt.
As I predicted...they briefly explained what the Kwisatz Haderach was in a dialogue between Paul and Jessica just before he drinks the Water of Life. The only problems was that you didn't really understand what the hell Paul was talking about when he "explained" his vision. It brougt back painful memories of the ending of "2001: A Space Oddesy."
If I recall...Paul's two Children are twins. So...I think that the Device of having Leto killed in this story was for Dramatic effect, more than anything. [I haven't read the book in 15 years].
Oe part of the book whcih I wish they had included was the description by the Emperor of how his Sardaukar raiding party, the one which netted him Alia as a hostage, was nearly wiped out by a bunch of "women, children, and old men." This highlighted the formidability of the Fremen. They still only briefly hinted at the fearsomeness of the Sardaukar in the assasination scene. [Which was not in the book, if I recall.]
Oh well. I think it could have used an extra two hours. The fatal flaw of this series was that it was too short. [You cannot do Dune well in even six hours. Hell...they took a week to do Shogun!]
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Mr. Morden, a clarification for you. Leto II (Paul & Chani's first born) did die at the hands of the Sardakar in the southernmost sietch in Dune. They had another boy in Dune Messiah and named him the same thing. So, yeah, they actually nailed this one perfectly. The only difference is that they didn't "show" this in the book, we just know if happened. Just wanted to help out so you didn't think they pulled a "weirding module" on you.
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"...His name is a killing word..."
That was one of the coolest moments in the book and in the Lynch film. The technology that turned mental discipline and sound into destructive force reacted strongest to the phonetic "Mua Dib", further cementing Paul's mystic nature. And they were cool as hell.
also- the still suits in the movie looked functional. Thes looked like tusken raider K-mart costumes.
also- No stain on the mentat's lips. No mantra. That killed Uey's tragedy. we have no idea what sort of extreme conditioning he had to overcome to betray the Duke.
I loved the length. 6 hours seemed right, though it got a little slow in the middle. Needed some kick.
Hard to pick a favorite- at least the Guild Steersman was more accurate. -
was the director's desire to distance himself as much as possible from the original movie. In essence he threw out the good with the bad. The method for capturing worms was changed (the movie WAS more accurate) and some scenes were only mentioned after the fact or cut short and some great dialog was left out. But in the end, this was still a GOOD TV adaption. I would like to have seen the attack of the worms at the end more like the movie, but I was generally pleased with the miniseries. I just wonder if people who never read the book or saw the original movie understood everything.
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Mr. Morden. May I make some comments on yours? The mini-series did take us in new directions that are in line with the novel and I to, applaud them for it. I didn
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Mr. Morden, a clarification for you. Leto II (Paul & Chani's first born) did die at the hands of the Sardakar in the southernmost sietch in Dune. They had another boy in Dune Messiah and named him the same thing. So, yeah, they actually nailed this one perfectly. The only difference is that they didn't "show" this in the book, we just know if happened. Just wanted to help out so you didn't think they pulled a "weirding module" on you.
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Make that two things, I'm not postive but I don't remember Faye getting it on with the Emperor's daughter. But the main thing that is positively puzzling, is that Duncan Idaho is required throughout the remaining Dune books. Hence the question, "where the @!&*% was he??" How the heck can there be a sequel, when a MAJOR, and I mean M A J O R character is not killed of correctly?? Huh??? Answer that, would ya!! Hmmm??
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Ghola is the answer you're looking for. Duncan does die in the book but comes back again and again as a ghola. A ghola is like a clone in that they use any kind of cells from your body to regrow you in one of their "tanks". Its different than a clone in that their technology allows for full memory recall up to the point that the cells were seperated from the body or when the body died. Its a painful process for the recall to occur, however. In the next movie (hopefully), Duncan comes back unknowingly preprogrammed to kill Paul. Plots, within plots you know... >Leto<
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Well, as much as I really wanted to like Dune, the second and third parts just didn't do it for me. It's a shame, because the first part held much promise. On the upside, now I'm definitely going to have to read the book, if only to see if the lack of tension and urgency I felt during the "climax" of the TV series is present in the novel as well.
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Usul-Paul's secret name used only in the seitch
Leto II - the original baby Leto was killed in the first novel. Leto II the God-Emperor was born in Dune Messiah as one of twins with Ghanima.
Thufir Hawat- the Baron gave him a permanent poison which required him to be fed the antidote on a daily basis, thus controlling him (no heart plugs in the book), I do believe he was killed at the end of the book.
Mahdi-was the word for messiah used by the Fremen.
The reason Gurney had his scars is because they are real scars on the face of the actor.
If you knuckleheads would occasionally check other sources you would know that the director himself said they were going for a theatrical feel.
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Final thoughts:
bad parts-
For a water starved people, they were pretty lax about their stillsuits.
Fenring and hawats parts were so small, they could have been removed and not missed. They each had a great minor part in the books conclusion.
The emporer was supposed to dress like a sardukar commander, not like the captain of the love boat. Well, what else does it look like?
Irulans a bit of a slut, aint she?
And i thought the lynch version of the rev. mother was ugly-until i saw this one.
good parts-
alia- much better this time.
chani is pretty damn hot.
Correct ending.
Gurney appearance was a bit more book-like, but damn i miss patrick stewart.
No weirding modules!
More hand-to-hand combat sequences.
Just my thoughts
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My main problem with the Dune mini-series was that the 6 hours came down to almost half of that being actual showtime - the rest was all commercials. I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but they sure felt like putting commercials in wherever they felt. Also, wasn't it supposed to show at 9pm? I ended up missing the first hour on each tape (thank goodness they rebroadcast it afterward - I just need to do some editing).
Other gripes include the sets looking like "sets" (the original movie looked more natural), the costumes looking really cheezy, and the cast was a little lame, except for Chani - WOW! Anyone got a website for her yet? -
In exapnding the story, it lost some of its terseness and poignancy. I'm glad we got to see a more filled out story but I found it to be dragging on in a lot of places. None more specific than the preparations for the final battle. It felt like it was rambling and didn't know where to go. When they finally got to the battle, it was extremely anti-climactic. Just didn't have that grandiose scale that a battle of such importance and weight should have. It seemed like an afterthought. And then, of course, Paul was completely unsympathetic. And with the type of character he is (as written in the book), that is the last thing you want for the audience to feel. We want to be a part of him. To be a part of his struggle. To witness this fantasy from his eyes, find his importance with him. This was all lost on the interpretation for this series. He become power-hungry and withdrawn. A very unlikeable person. While I certainly I'm not a big fan of the Lynch film, I felt that Kyle MacLachlan nailed this termoil within Paul. Yes, he realizes what kind of power he possesses and his place in the universe. Yes, he realizes how he has been betrayed by so many and how much evil there is in the universe. And you can see his anger toward the end. But more important, you felt it. We were, for the most part, carried along with Paul in his discovery to its very conclusion in the palace and the fight with Feyd. But here, in the mini-series, we don't get that at all. It's one note once they hit the desert: pissed. None of this is more evident than in his deallings with Chani. I never felt that the two fo them were in love. It felt like Chani had this huge crush on her Muad'Dib and he just wanted a piece of ass. To me, in a sense, the relationship felt very chauvinistic, dating back to times before the 60's when men were in charge and women were to be kept in the kitchen and speak only when spoken too. She was a plaything that just happened to father his firstborn. It seemed like he could really care less for her and that he was only concerned with is power now over her people. So, like I say, I liked it. I liked how it expounded upon the story that many of us have read and few could gather from the Lynch version. But it is still lacking in many respects. Now, if only someone someday could combine the best of these two versions, we might actually have the Dune we've all been looking for. The one that truly does justice to the book and belongs on screen.
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I really tried to watch this, but it really looksed like the producers couldn't make up their mind on where to spend their budget. Production all looked like it was filmed in 1 room with stage props, the acting was atrocious. As my buddy Casey Kasum would say it was "ponderous".
OM66 -
This is just a lame movie. Costumes from the Babylon 5 reject bin (mainly the Emperor). Scenes that brought the plot to a screeching halt (shovel-faced Chani and Jessica arguing about how to raise the baby). Sardaukars who resemble renaissance painters. Fake outdoor sets and wildly brilliant blue eyes that were more distracting than anything. Excruciating final lines of narration about "the nobility of the noble concubine without whose nobleness we would have nothing", or something like that. A guild representative who was doing god-knows-what with his hands when he was speaking just prior to the Paul-Feyd death match. Foreign actors who performed as if they had memorized their lines phonetically and had no idea of what they were actually saying. Explosion and fight scenes choreographed by the Star Trek:TNG crew (I loved that show, but the action scenes were lame, lame, lame). And, oh yeah, a plot incoherent and without any resonance for an average viewer. As a made-for-TV film this was just silly and pointless, much like most of the other "event" crap foisted on us by NBC over the last few years. But damn, I MUST have one those glowing cave balls! And, by the way, how does a desert-dweller go about getting their hair crimped? (Chani--I forget which scene, but it's in a cave)
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#1.) Yes Leto II (the baby one, not the God-Emperor) was killed by a Saudukar attack on the sietch. The Saudukar are horribly beaten on by the Fremen though, and barely escape by using their attudinal jets as flamethrowers to beat back the fanatical old and women Fremen (The Emperor goes into a rant about this in the book). This is where they take Paul's sister.
#2.) Yes, Gurney does have a single scar running down his face in the book. It's an inkvine scar given to him by a Harkonnen slaver before he escaped.
#3.) Yes I agree, the Fremen did wear their stillsuits far less (especially the masks) than they did in the book. But its rather tough getting sensible dialogue to filter through a heavy mask like that, don't ya think? -
I agree about the Spacing Guild. I thought their portrayal of the Guild represenatives was pretty stupid. There was no need to wave their hands around like that, and they're supposed to be neutral, yet throughout the movie they're seen obviously baiting other characters (Like in the Atreides dinner scene). Those hand gestures just make a mockery of any intelligent dialogue the guy had to deliver.
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I'm a first time poster but I thought I would weigh in on my impressins of the series. I thought it was pretty good given the limitations of a made-for-TV miniseries. Many of you are dissing the sets, costumes, etc. by comparing them to the feature film but I think that is an incorrect thing to do. To compare a TV event with a film release is like comparing apples and oranges. TV budgets usually just aren't very high. I think they did a really good job with these elements considering the limitations inherant in creating a mini-series on this scale.
I read the book about 20 years ago. When I watched the Lynch film I found myself unimpressed. It simply did not match my personal vision of what I thought the Dune universe should look like. That was an error on my part since I should not have come in with so many expectations like I did. The Lynch version did not get me interested in re-reading the book.
I came in with a better attitude toward the mini-series. I decided to simply watch it for the fun of it without nit-picking over details. With this attitude I found the series to be enjoyable. It has also gotten me interested in reading the books again. Visuals and imagery are all fine and good but "story" is what really interests me. The story in the SciFi series simply did more for me than what was presented in the Lynch version. This was perhaps to be expected considering the extra length of time that SciFi was given to work with. Still, the Lynch film may have done the best it could given the smaller amount of time offered to it.
One final note: I watched the mini-series with my Dad and he enjoyed the series a lot more than the movie. This is a high compliment considering that he has read the book at least a dozen times.
I believe that many of you who wrote off the series are the same type of people who have written off The Lord of the Rings. No matter how well they do with those three films you will never be satisied. That is very sad. Some of you simply do too much nit-picking. -
Um, Tender Branson, when you cite Dune as the only linear film Lynch ever made, you're forgetting a little picture called the Straight Story. But that has nothing to do with this. --kyle out
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I just finished reading the El Cosmico review once again now that I have seen the series and I agree with about 95% of what he says. Even where I diagree they are minor points. For instance I didn't consider the central two hours to be slow.
El Cosmico wrote, "Remember, this is not a feature film. It is television." He "understands". Too bad many of you wannabe filmmakers don't get it. I'm sure that even for a made-for-TV production the script and acting choices could have been better. Still, they weren't THAT bad.
If Sci-Fi does make a sequel I will be very excited. Hopefully it will be great. -
Again, Tender Branson, it's a bit hard to take you seriously when you refer to an "adaption" of a film. It's "adaptation." But that's not well-argued, is it? I will say a couple of things, then I must stop writing (and reading!) 'cause my vision is going all blurry (y'all are a bunch of long-winded, impassioned zealots, and I mean that in the best possible way). 1. You cannot possibly satisfy all the fans of a legendary work. You can't. These (Dune, LOTR) are wondrous works of the imagination (and if you reread LOTR, you will see that the physical descriptions are remarkably... undescriptive--Legolas, for instance, is described as lithe, fleet of foot, and such, but nowhere is he described in any sort of detail, y'know, like height, weight, hair color...), and as such each reader sees things differently. That does not mean, however, that you can't please a large number of fans/viewers. Which brings me to... 2. Dune (and LOTR) has a tremendous fan base. Insanely huge, insanely detail-oriented, well, perhaps just insane. What a production team can do is treat the source material with respect. I haven't seen SF's miniseries, and it's been a long time since I saw Lynch's version (which I found very disappointing), but from the talkbacks presented here, I conclude that something(s) was (were) definitely missing. An imperfect analogy, but X-Men worked because it was true to the spirit of the comic, even though it screwed some stuff up, conflated timelines, reoriented some character relationships, etc. That's what I (and possibly many other flexibly minded sf geeks--and yes, I can be a geek and still have a life) want from adaptations of the books I love. I'm sure Peter Jackson will do some things to LOTR that I don't like, but I'm equally confident that he is the right man to capture the spirit, the magic of the tales. I hope that for some of you at least the Dune miniseries did that. I know that for some of you the Lynch film did it, and many of you even admit that that is despite its many flaws. Ah, honesty and well-thought-out arguments. If only we could have a few more of those on AICN TB. Now I gotta go get me some of that fine melange. --kyle out
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Watching Dune on the SciFi channel these past few nights for me was bitter sweet. I remember being introduced to Dune by my tutor, Margo back in Vermont when I was 11, and she told me if I would loved Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, then I must read Dune. I admit that the appendixes in the back of the book caught my attention more then the story. I've said it once and I'll say it again
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Well, guess it's time for a final verdict. I don't know how much faint praise it is to say that the undertaking got better as it went along, but Part 3 was the most compelling of the three parts, if that the messianic investigations seemed to play into Harrison's formless directing. (I swear to GOD, the man has not clue one of where to put a camera. Some of his compositions were nice, but there wasn't a storytelling instinct in one single setup. Looking at his weird angles during some of the Harkonnen scenes, I got uneasy flashbacks from the Roger Christian Battlefield Earth School of Directon.) It was nice to see Gurney put the knife to Jessica, but where was the excruciating tension and emotion? Couldn't he have even TRIED to communicate Paul's "I will bend like a reed in the wind"? Where was the dearly complicated Paul, with a purpose but a humanity as well? You know why I prefer Lynch's Paul? Because he SMILES. That Paul would've fit in with the ending about concubines and wives, that Paul you could believe possessed more than whorish revenge motivations. But six hours to tell a story, and we still don't know who ANYONE is. Except, of course, the Harkonnens, who were lifted straight from Adam West's Batman and blandified, and the Emperor, apparently a sales rep for Fernando Lamas' Miami Retirement Community.
I don't want to be slagging the series so badly. It held my attention, I liked a lot of it a great deal...the final battle, save for almost completely ignoring the sandworms, was almost epic in scale, Alia was nifty, and the final night's dream visions were disturbing and surreal. I didn't mind the intensely theatrical look and lighting, and thought many of the FX were beautiful and lovingly detailed. But you've got one of the great science fiction efforts of all time, you give it the time to do it properly, and then you hand it to someone who fails to understand the most basic principles of building a story in a visual medium. Yes, the screenplay was deficient, with the Yueh debacle chief among the sins, but I've never seen a project where the flaws of *direction* so totally undermined the promise of something this ambitious. The problem with Lynch's film is he was forced to make a lot of choices. The problem with this version is that there didn't seem to be any choices made at ALL. Yes, in the end, I'm pleased this miniseries was attempted, but I wanted drama, not recapitulations of "Dune - The Most Requested Lost Scenes," not clever inserts of what's to come in Dune Messiah...just simple, basic storytelling. And for all the money spent, this is where it falls apart. Alas.
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The ending was awful, ill-timed and so badly.....shit I don't know, it went so far out of it's way to differentiate itself from the Lynch version that it completely ignored EVERYTHING that the Lynch version got right. There were a lot of things that the Lynch version got right hat I love and I'll continue to say the Lynch version is the only decent adaption of "Dune" that has been made. Paul's character changed far, far too much and kind of lost it's way toward the ending. I was almost wishing that Feyd would win. The ending was a non-event, missing most of the crucial and best dialogue from the book and all in all completely fell apart for me.
I know this sounds kind of strange and I'm not really nit-picking here, I'm glad they made it, glad they put this much effort into it. And to tell the truth, I couldn't give a crap about the stuff that was left out of the film that was in the book. That I don't care about. What I care about is that Harrison was a shoddy and completely arrogant filmmaker. He was so determined to distance himself from the Lynch version that he even ommitted the best lines of dialogue that were IN THE DAMN BOOK! That pisses me off. The final battle was and looked more like a final tiff. I lost all sympathy and interest in the characters after this and the fact that the battle was fought largely on the ground and in the air, INSTEAD OF USING THE WORMS was just stupid.
In all, a decent first half effort, the second half was just shit and I have no desire to see it again. If the Sci-Fi Channel is really planning to adapt further "Dune" books to mini-series, it had damn well find a director who can appreciate the need to admit someone else did something right before he did and simply add those things to his own interpretation. -
1) Why, in a book heavy in plots and subplots, would you ever consider adding another (Paul-Irulan-Feyd love triangle)?
2) Why is Irulan a main character?
3) Why isn't Thufir Hawat a main character?
4) Who told this "writer/director" that he could do either?
5) By the time Paul drinks the water of life, is there any reason we should care? This is a main storyline introduced very early in the book. In the Dune series, Paul's ascendence to his deification is Primary and Essential. It is the Dune Mythos as it were. This director has raped the story of the real significance of what Paul has become by dulling it down and having Paul and Jessica stand in front of an Atari Jaguar rave screen. Where is Paul's original discovery of what he was bred to be in his conversation with the Reverend Mother on Caladan? We are never given ANY indication of Paul's importance to everyone around him and his place in the Empire's political realm. He is shown as a spoiled rich kid.
And finally, for now, who couldn't withstand that Gom Jabbar? The actor playing Paul looked bored.
I most certainly was. We shouldn't compare this with the previous film. It should stand or fall on it's own merits and this one falls hard for anyone who really knows and respects the source material. -
One final note for now on this mediocrity of a mini-series. I find it sad that I'm reading positives statements about this prefaced with words to the effect of "If you compare it with other TV miniseries..." What other people do or have done is just not relevant when discussing this farce. You can't compare it to a Stephen King miniseries. That is not the discussion. What you have to look at in an adaptation of a book to film (or TV) is does it serve the heart of the work on which it is based. A good reverse example is Orson Scott Card's novelization of "The Abyss". His work serves Cameron's film. For those who have seen the film, it gives depth that a film cannot. For those who have only read the book, they have read a really good book and may be tempted into watching the film at some point. After watching this latest adaptation of Dune, I feel it did not inspire me to re-read the book nor did it give me any of the satisfaction that the book always engendered within me. Instead it made me a little angry and somewhat sad as I felt the director really hated the material and the fans of the material to serve this up. And the Sci-Fi network should really take more control (although they sometimes seem to have nothing but contempt for genre fans).
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is what I though of the Dune miniseries. I was stuck to the couch through all six hours just amazed at the accurancy of the story in comparison to the book. Unlike thre reviewer, I found the FX somewhat cheesy, but when you have a good compelling story, the FX fade into the background. More big budget movies should take note of this. Too often they use expense FX to make up for the lack of a cohesive story.
My only big complaint were some of the accents. Some of they were really way way cheesy fake-o Russian accents, or something, they were just bad. All in all, though, a most excellent series. The Sci-Fi channel has really been delivering good programming for someone like me who usually depises Television programming. -
kull wahad!
Yes, occasionally this strayed closer to the book than Lynch's, but it was hard to get past HOW MUCH THE ACTING SUCKED. There was not one single scene where the Caspar Van Diem clone (oops, ghola) remotely achieved the kind of depth you might need to be the g*ddamn Kwisatz Haderach.
Plus, I agree with an earlier post that this version really reduced all the strong female characters into, well, mannequins.
But it's good to know that in future people wear a lot of fancy hats.
aeon -
Wel I've been looking forward to this since the first little blurb I read about it in Cinescape Two years ago. Wasn't dissapointed. I was glad the final battle was more in tune with the book.I liked Lynchs' version but the final battle in his movie was shit. I remember suppressed laughter all through the theatre everytime a fremen would scream into his weirding module and something would "splode".
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I like it. Not great, but pretty damn good, close to the spirit of the SIX novels. I'm amazed by you folks who like the Lynch movie. The man is all style/no substance, and can't keep a storyline moving forward to save his life, as he amply demonstrated when he hit it big with "Twin Peaks" and couldn't sustain it. Where is he now? Anyhow, this Paul is pretty colorless and lacks the depth the character demands. Yet ... that does point up the true irony of Paul's situation. Once thrust into the situation, he was predestined to emerge as the leader of the Fremen, not because of his innate greatness, but because of the Bene Gesserit mythos spread before him. Still, this Paul lacks the "hidden grandeur" that Herbert said marked him. And what's with these Sardaukar?! The unis are black, natch, but preposterously foppish. These guys are supposed to be ultimate badasses, the future equivalent of Navy SEALs. They're not. A final thought ... on the women. Chani does have VERY big tits. But Irulan's the real babe. Jessica was terrific, better than the the Lynch version, but the script should have invested her with more of the elegance, menace, and power she has in the novels.
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Well, i've never read the books, so i can only judge it against the Lynch movie...Both have thier selling points and faults, while The Sci Fi attempt was larger in story, it was limited in emotion. For all its storytelling faults, at least the Lynch version was exciting and cinematic. Some of the shifts, making the Fremen more like Isreli terrorists with cities in caverns, may have been more like the novel, but the Lynch version they were stronger/intimidating and more mysterious living inside the dark mountains. Likewise, the Harkonen being more like corrupt Romans and the Baron being a fat poof, wasnt the least bit evil compared to the pustulent, revolting Harkonen in Lynch's vision. Both had great design, but the Lynch version was better executed since the Sci Fi version was obviously fake in so many areas (particularly the Freman cities were as flat as could be, and the soldiers with thier Purple Pie Man from Strawberry Shortcake hats were not nearly as stunning as the radiation suited soldiers in Lynch's)....Will i watch another three hr installment if Sci Fi continues adapting the novels?- Yes...Do i doubt that anyone can fully capture the feel of the book and the scope of its story on celluliod?- Without a doubt.
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Thank you, someone else who thought Irulan was prettier than "Chay-knee". Especially in that first glimpse of her when she's doing her ballet practice/prana-bindu training. Which, btw, they could have explained at least a little bit, as being part and parcel of the "weirding way" as it were. I hope we see this Julie Cox in other stuff. Preferably when she doesn't have butterfly motif outfits, or boomerangs on her head.
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Irulan shags Feyd? Mohiam runs the BG? Yueh with no tattoo? The weirding way involves phase-shifting? Guild Steersmen are upright manta rays? Plants all over the sietches? No mention of the words "melange" or "Lisan al-Gaib"? What the hell's going on here? I'll tell you what the hell's going on here. The problem with filming "Dune" is that there is actually very little action in the book which would translate directly to the screen. Herbert's writing style is very dry, with lots of expository asides and internal monologues, neither if which make for good film (or TV for that matter). One can hardly blame the filmmakers for adding things like the excrable "weirding modules" of Lynch's film, or the "Matrix"-style fighting that is the "weirding way" of the miniseries. The fact is that Dune is one of those books that was never meant to be filmed. There is no way of doing the book justice. The sad result is that the few attempts that have been mad pretty much suck. Lynch's film might have been OK if he had managed to get the miserable, rat-bastard de Laurentis family to keep their sensationalistic hands off the finished product. Unfortunately he couldn't, with the result that another Alan Smithee film was added to the big-budget shitheap. Even the aborted Jodorovsky version looked like it would have probably sucked badly in the end. The new miniseries does not have as many missteps as the Lynch film, but it makes some major mistakes and detracts from the original story. The best thing about it was the costume design, which was excellent. Really, though, unless you're already a fan, I don't think that you'd get too much out of the miniseries. Not enough was explained, and too much was left out, again because there is no way to film the whole thing without it being ten hours long and full of people thinking aloud. Maybe the best thing to do would be to animate the Dune story. Get someone like Mamoru Nagano to do character design, write the story exactly as it appears in the book, and go ahead and make it ten or fifteen hours...not bloody likely, though.
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In an effort not to repeat good points I have to say I agree with nuclearcowboy, subject: Terrible, but drawn to it like a car accident. Except one thing. Paul is a Dick. Paul was always a dick. I read the book a month ago; Paul was still a DICK. I am not saying that that is a bad thing. He saw everything as it was, and everything (with sizable gaps) that was to be. You cannot have all that knowledge and not come off as a dick. Example: We are going to do this. Why? Because I say so. To everyone that does not and cannot know why he acts the way he does, he's a dick.
Now that rant is out of the way on with the rest. First of all GUNS. Why are there guns? More importantly why do the Fremen have guns? I am not an anti gun fanatic. I just think, If it wasn't in the book lets not go making shit up. While I am speaking of the fremen where was the special walk across open desert? Where were the two fremen that fled the hulking spice gatherer that Paul saw that planted the seed of knowledge of how to cross said desert? Nowhere it the book did I read of the fremen dragging window shades behind them. I am sure that dragging something would waste energy, in turn wastewater. Something the fremen would not do. Speaking of water. What the hell was the waterfall all about? Nuff said. Where is Duncan Idaho going down by the knives of 20 sardicar? How can you save his flesh when you kill him with a missile? A MISSILE GARY, A MISSILE. Jessica is a Bitch that has nothing but her sons Dukedom in mind, not the concubine with the heart of gold she is portrayed as. Duke Leto stopped the tradition of the water squezins and pissed off the serving girl who was profiting, not Jessica who inspired the girl to ask, "could she be the one?" I have many more opinions of small things that did not need to be changed. In fact it is the changes that cause confusion and misunderstanding. The mini-series shows events either out of order or not at all. The artistic interpretation leaves much to be desired. In my opinion interpretation mean, more often than not, I didn -
Well as every novell adaptation ever is pretty ambitious field to compare this too I will limit it to lynch's film and the book. As I noticed it first I will mention casting first, it was horrible. The Atreides men look nothing like Atreides, both are fair haired and neither has particularly Aquilence face. Of course this is not that big of deal but It does show a remarkable lack of respect for the original text it is not that hard to dye and actors hair the proper color. Secondly the charecter played by the Atreides men are nothing like their counterparts in the book. While William hurt is good actor and does good job expressing emotion he does not adopt Leto charecter very well at all, he lacks the charisma of Leto and too soft spoken for the harsh military commander that was Leto I. Paul as the Central charecter was partial a Bad cast and partially horrible direction. The actor who portrays him again can not generate the type of charisma nessacary to Play Muad'Ib and comes of as very unsympathetic chareceter. This is not all the actors fault as the director drastically changed the tone of the first scene. Instead of imediatly feeling some affection for the young prince who wants to play rather worry about protecting himself. We get petulant little brat who trash talks to his teacher rather then bantering with him and storms out in temper. No scene I saw changes this tone charecter and thus he has nothing of Pauls better charecteristics. The Baron is laughable as paragon of evil, Duncan is equally laughable as the famed swordsmen and womanizer, Duncan is Asian for christs sakes. Instead of the fierce proud Liet fair and proud Liet Kynes we have this rather snivelly looking charecter. Irulan is not fair haired as she was in the books, Stilgar is utterly unimpressive. Well that about summs up the casting. The Costume design was equall horrid, still suits look like utterly purposeless, reverand mothers were ridiclous custom totally unlike the black robes discribbed in the book and the genereal look is pathetic. The direction is choppy and bad skipping most of better Dialogue for example. Lastly the accuracy which was supposed to be the selling point of this book is no better then then Lynch's film. I Don't think I need to mention all the incacurcies as the have allready been mentioned but suffice to say that I was digusted. I have never been so dissapointed in film in my entire life
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The worst novel adaptation you have seen?? You must not have seen many as it is far from the worst. It was rather pleasant. Though it didnt follow the book closely, I was glad. It nice to see a creative approach to it. And you "fans" are funny complaining about the backdrops, I thought it made it interesting as it gave certain scenes a theatrical sense. If you used your imagination to visualize the scenes from the book, its not that hard to squint your eyes and pretend the fx are nice. Anyways, if your life was revolving around the coming of this mini series and it disapointed you its your own fault. Never expect what vision you have of something in your own mind, its obviously not what others have, nor should it be. Nuff said.
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You know, you have to be aware that the filmmakers who attempt to do novel adaptations simply cannot please every single person who will see their works. The one fan might find the new looks refreshing, while the purist nitpicker is enraged that Duncan was Asian (which he wasn't... at all... but even if he were, get over it). Bottom line is, you're asking for a perfectly exact literal replication of the book word for word, paragraph for paragraph, including every ambiguity that may exist in the book so that every reader's imagined visions will not be contradicted by the film... except that the visual medium precludes such ambiguities. If the book does not mention whether or not Duke Leto had a mole on his left cheek, the movie CAN'T be ambiguous about that fact and leave it up to the viewer to decide... either the film character has a mole or he hasn't one. There are countless situations like that that would arise. You would like the film to be a stamped and approved window into the author's mind... well we all would, but tough, cause that can't happen. Every single film adaptation is an interpretation, and either you accept that or stop watching them, because if you can't appreciate someone else's vision of what the author was trying to say for what it is, then you'll never be satisfied, so leave it be. A lot of people had to like Dune enough in order to make this project happen, and worked hard to do as much justice to the novel as was physically possible. Though you're entitled to decide whether or not you thought it was as accurate as it should have been, that should not prevent you from appreciating this one other vision of the work for what it is... it doesn't have to alter your personal perception of the novel. That belongs to you. This film belongs to Harrison. And believe it or not, the two can coexist without bringing about the destruction of the world.
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Whew, just completed watching all three episodes, back to back to back. It hasn't been released here yet, but working in TV has its privileges. First, folks this is a miniseries. The pacing is going to be completely different from a movie. It's segmented (commercials do exist on commercial television, hence the name). Also, I believe this is a $20 million, not $200 million dollar budget.
Hard decisions have been made here as to look and contraction or expansion of characters. People's chief complaints will be that it doesn't match THEIR vision of Dune. Fine, that's why you read the book. To fire YOUR imagination. This is the director's vision of that book.
Is it a successfull miniseries? Yes, without a doubt. It captures the intrigue, the savagery, and headlong rush to destruction, the terrible purpose, that the book offers. Its style is its own. It differs sufficiently from the Lynch film not to be considered a remake. Performances are uniformly strong, and again different in tone from the Lynch film. The main characters in general have more realistic progression and depth than the film. (Yes, in the beginning Paul was that young, that sheltered and that naive in the book). The decision to expand Irulan's character makes better sense if you consider that the production of the second novel was already in mind. It allows a more realistic and believable character development in the next series. The Baron? Well, you oldsters may know that early drafts for this movie had Orson Wells slated for the role. Ian McNiece here, by accident or design gives exactly that interpretation. Kudos, a master stroke. Saucy, poetic, twisted and brilliant. Not just a floating fat man. Casting generally good. Strong performances, with the breathing space for more charcater depth.
Effects? CGI vs models. Superb ornithopters and worms. General feels of technology more realistic, and that especialy includes the stillsuit designs.
Costumes? only opinion here, but some good, some bad, in a word different. Again, this is someone else's vision.
By the end of the miniseries, there is introduced, the concept of the entrapment, the dead end that Paul has led the characters both out of, in terms of stagnation, and into, in terms of violence, and personal self destruction. We stand at the edge of an abyss with Paul as the fulcrum. This is a miniseries where there's meat on them bones, it breathes, its video arteries course with hot, human living blood. Hats off to the Sci Fi Channel who produced this and the director who had the courage to bring us this vision. May you profit well and generate both enough revenue and enthusiastic interest to give us more! -
I find it interesting now that the "fans" of the book are finding major fault with a mini-series so lacking in respect for the source material it is almost criminal for it to carry the name "Dune" that now the people who for some reason adored this tripe are now defending it by saying it is this director's "interpretation" of the novel and that should be respected.
Well, then, by this same token, you must respect Mr. Lynch's film as it was his interpretation. You can't have it both ways. The mini-series sold itself on being faithful to the source material. Now please excuse the arch biblical here but it committed Adultery. IF it was advertised as a new "interpretation", I would cut it some slack. But, like many here who were sorely disappointed with this 4 Hour soap opera (please insert two hours of commercial interpretations at random intervals), I am not prepared to forgive this director's vision because that is not what I was sold when I decided to invest my time with it. I gave it so much rope it'll probably be hanging for days...If you liked it, fine. But do not defend it for what it is not. -
Thank God for all the millions that don't visit this website. All of you twerps who are dissin' the miniseries should go back, get your head out of your ass and read the damn book again. Many have been corrupted after seeing the Lynch version (hell, the man is almost ashamed of it himself).
Gurney Halleck is described as an ugly lump of a man (far from a description of Patrick Stewart). The stillsuits in this version are taken directly from the descriptions in the book. These are just a couple of points to ponder.
I had never read the book when I saw the Lynch movie at theater. I later read it and my thinking like a lot of yours thought was tainted. When I read it the second time and then saw that movie on tv, I thought, What a load of shit this is!
(By the way there is no directors cut of Lynch's version, it was stuck together by a studio hack using left out scenes and FX test footage. Lynch had his name removed from it. From what I've read he will not even discuss this movie in either version.)
This was not as good as it could have been , but no one would ever do this book justice without a billion dollar budget and making it 24 hours long. -
I'm annoyed at the Annoyed One for the worthless annoyance he has piled here... You attack people for attacking the mini-series and then waste more time attacking the film. Neither is a decent representation of the book. Your only defense of the MS is that Gurney should be uglier than Patrick Stewart and the stillsuits look like you think they should...I do agree that you cannot do this book justice in a few hours on a small budget. My major complaints are that instead of focussing on key plotlines from the book and doing a reasonable job of remaining true to the story, new story elements were added at the expense of key sub-plots and massive amounts of key detail were stripped for no good reason other than to make sure we were given enough information of all of the wonderful new and exciting shows that Sci-Fi will be providing it's shrinking audience with. If Kevin Garnett is Sci-Fi, I'm Harlan Freakin' Ellison.
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Just keep in mind that all this quibbling over what was omitted from the book might be rendered moot in a few months. The Digital Bits is reporting that the DVD version of the series might be the longer, international cut.
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I do respect Lynch's interpretation, and that's what I see it as. I wasn't sold on this miniseries by any claim to be faithful to the book, or the "definitive" version, whatever that is. Never heard any of that. I vaguely remember reading a few bits here on AICN a while back about it, and I saw the commercials and was intrigued, that's all. If the makers of this miniseries called this the "definitive" version, or any other such phrase, I'd say that was highly arrogant of them. Definitive is impossible unless Herbert himself was responsible for it, with a sufficient enough budget to do his own work justice. As that is unfortunately impossible because of his passing, we have to settle for others' visions of his work, and that's what I see this as. Lynch had plenty of problems, but I can't say that it was an utter failure either. I appreciated both of them in different ways (for example, I thought the score for the Lynch film kicked ass, compared to the this miniseries, which was extremely unmemorable in that regard). Lynch had an extremely unique vision that was so effective that when I read the books and read about the sandworms, I couldn't help but see Lynch's worms with the triple mouthparts, or likewise with those sleek black stillsuits. Harrison on the other hand gave us this version that included numerous important elements otherwise left out. Both have their merits and their failings, and, and though I don't need them to complete my Dune experience, I'm glad to have seen what their maker's visions were. My beef is with those who dismiss as trash anything that doesn't adhere to the tinyiest details in their minds, without looking at the big picture.
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Insyncopia: You mention that you are unsatisfied with either the film or the series. I have a feeling that many people here, perhaps yourself included, would be unsatisfied regardless of how many versions were released. That's a shame. I, on the other hand, like BOTH the film and the mini-series because they ARE "interpretations". You almost seem to suggest that people who defend the mini-series attack the film. That is not so. I appreciate the vision supplied in BOTH the Lynch version and the sci-fi version. Nevertheless, I still like the sci-fi version more. I don't see a problem with this and there is no hypocrasy here. Another issue is that you seem to separate interpretation from the concept of being faithful to the text. You say that the MS should be judged harshly because it claims to be more faithful to the book instead of announcing itself as another "interpretation." I'm sorry to tell you this but ALL tellings of a Dune MS or film, no matter how accurate you may think it is to the text, will still be an interpretation of the director. Anytime a film or MS is based on a book it is "interpretation." If I were to ask the AICN audience which version (film or MS) was more accurate to the book probably half would say the film was and the other half would say the MS was. Who is correct? Everyone is. People develop their own vision ("interpretation") while reading the book and when they see these "interpretations" on film they choose the one that most matches their vision. Neither of these versions match YOUR personal vision very well which is why you are left unsatified with both. In many ways both the film and MS fall short of matching my personal vision as well but I do not let that stop me from enjoying them. The thing is, I am willing to recogize the fact that I am watching an interpretation that is not strictly my own and live with it. You are perhaps overanalyzing and that has marred your enjoyment of these interpretations. Sometimes it IS enough to just sit back and enjoy the show without nitpicking over so many little things. Likewise it is OK to see a film or MS display an interpretation different in some respects from your own and still enjoy it.
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Oops! Mr. Morden: You and I posted at about the same time and about the same thing. I agree with your opinion. Some people perhaps want more than can plausibly be given to them. Can a version of Dune be released eventually that will satisfy more people? Probably. Still, I don't let that stop me from enjoying what has been released so far.
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Morden, Paul and others:
I do not mean to say that people should not like this MS. I personally, did not. (As for the film, I liked it as a Lynch fan and disliked it as a Dune fan...so in the end, I see it as a film inspired by Dune and can enjoy it). What I did not like about the MS (aside from overall production value, lack of a decent score, mediocre writing, poor direction and community theatre level acting) was the notion that it was to be faithful to the source material. That colored my viewing of the piece. If I had simply been viewing the work as a new take on the work, I might have forgiven some of its flaws. The lighting was superb for TV and some of the ship designs were very good. But overall it was a fairly poor treatment of what I agree with you is difficult source material to put on film. Just so long as they stay away from Ringworld, I'll be okay... -
Ahh...Ringworld. Now there was a good book! Science fiction is admittedly difficult to do for film because it requires so much imagination on so many different levels (costumes, technology, etc.). Adaptations of other subjects are so much easier to do. For instance, I watched the DVD version of Gettysburg earlier today. The vast majority of people who have seen the movie and read the book it is based on (The Killer Angels) recogizes it as a project very closely resembling their vision of that the book should look like. This is no surprise since imagining a civil war setting in terms of visuals, etc. is very easy to do. Everyone knows what a Civil War battlefield looks like, or what Union and Confederate costumes look like. Everyone who knows their Civil War history also knows what Robert E. Lee looked like or what Joshua Chamberlain looked like. We also have an idea of how Civil War weapons behaved for instance. If only science fiction adaptations could be so easy! Everyone visualizes most aspects of the Dune world different from everyone else. Tackling an adaptation of a science fiction novel is not easy and I respect those who try. Good luck to Peter Jackson and the Lord of the Rings.
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I've lived long enough to see both of them in their both versions.
I think the Dune movie is superior hands down to the mini-series.
Why? Its because it was better done, the style was better.
Grant u that CGI maybe nice, but models and special effects of movie were much better done. Still suits were superior to the ones in the mini. What found superior in the movie was story play, maybe confusing but it was done straightforward story telling
when there was nearly no narration to the mini-series. Unless you saw the movie or read the book, you won't know was going on. I miss the old hearing what characters were thinking.
It help people follow the what was going on. Those desert people are really stupid too. They hardly used the voice thing, or made sense why it even worked.
I mean the mini-series did good job telling the story of the characters in the series, thou they didn't do great job on telling it. I hated battle scenes with people, i mean they hardly show anything but screaming morons with knives.
Well, i've my say, if anyone has clue, they'd watch the movie if you wanted visalize version of the books. -
The longer international version is only about an extra 30 minutes, according to Mr. Harrison. What did Europe see that we missed? Mostly some nudity, as Fremen changed in and out of their stillsuits.
(and no, I don't know exactly who got naked, nor do I particularly care. The drooling fanboys who do, as we can see from all the comments about nursing above, are likely the same fools who pay fifty bucks at a con for a copy of "The Turning" just to stare at Gillian Anderson topless for a few seconds.)
Sure, I'll watch it if I get a chance, just to see what us poor Americans couldn't handle seeing on Cable TV, but it's hardly the point.
And, for the record, Mr. Harrison is already writing the sequel for New Amdterdam Entertainment, and it's going to be both Dune Messiah and Children of Dune in one treatment. So there ya go. -
Dec 09, 2000 3:29:18 PM CST
DUNE WAS OK BUT I TAPED OVER IT THIS MORNING TO GET THE HR PUFNS
by quizkiddonnie
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With the film. I pick on physicall apperances because that is something I am particularly aware of as budding biological anthropologist. No Duncan is not asian exactly. Unlike the rest of chareceters however, he is described as something other than pure caucasion. Herbert mentions that he has epithanic folds for eyelids an asian charecterictic, along with black hair on there asian charecteritic though of course shared with other human clines. Of course his eyes are either dark green or dark blue so he was not of pure asian descent which is to be expected thousands of years in future the point is that the actor cast to portray him was wildly off the blueprint provided in the books. Of course while this is particulary distracting to me it may not be a big deal to many other and we all have our own visions of the charecters. The inaccuracy in physicall casting is just sign to me of genereal lack of attention to the original work. Which I as fan of the book can not stomach. Beyond the many innacuricies of the mini-series the it was just bad. It simply was not written, directed or acted very well. I could not watch it despite the fact I will watch nearly anything in the Sci-Fi genre.
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This is for all of you who love to come on here and pat yourselves on the back for being so on top of things and catching the "major flaws" of the new Dune miniseries- why don't you read the book? That way, you'd know all about Duncan's future, and why Leto II dies, and yet there is a Leto II in the rest of the books, and all that. That's all if would take. Just read the books, and all the questions will be answered for you.
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This mini-series was awful. The casting was atrocious and the direction of the actors was horrible. The actors themselves were so unmemorable and bland I feel this must have been a Canadian or English co-production. Almost every single line reading came off like some small town Shakespeare review. Plus, there wasn't one consistent accent in the entire film. For example, the Emperor sounded like an extra from the Sopranos and his daughter sounded like an English royal. Huh?!?
And don't get me started on the wardrobe. The Emperor looked like something off Hollywood Blvd. The Harkonnen troops looked like some mish mash of samurai and plumbers. And the Fremen were just dressed in brown rags. How can anyone call that good? Awful!
Ooh, and how about the final battle scene. This was a tip-off that it was a foreign production. It included the horrible cliche "mad minute", which is just one lame slow mo cut after another that makes no sense in rythym or continuity.
Frank Herbert spins in his grave like a sandworm.I want 4 hours of my life back.
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One of the geezers here said that a definitive interpretation of Dune would have to involve direct input from the author. When he was alive Herbert did in fact produce a script at one stage, however, it was rejected as not meeting the goods. With regards to some of the banter about sandworm design, the best representations I've seen were in the art work of Giger when Ridley Scott was touted for the film project, many moons ago.
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Dec 13, 2000 12:01:58 AM CST
Hmm, upon reading this talkback, I see that that old saying, "He
by mr_intimidation
My, my, some of you do have a lot to say. I wonder why you think anyone cares, though. Do try to keep your "masterful critics" of the TV show under a page, will you? Seriously, you don't honestly think people will read ALL of your ramblings, do you?
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