Cool News
Cartoon Network greenlit Bruce Timm's JLA today!
Word hit the streets today that the Cartoon Network has greenlit Bruce Timm's JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA animated series... This would be... GOOD NEWS! News to celebrate. It is unknown who the writing staff will be this time round, or which characters would be making up the JLA, but at the very least this means a couple of things cool for us geeks...
Number 1: Well, the series itself.
Number 2: A buncha cool new action figures based on new Timm designs for the JLA members he chooses to go with.
Number 3: You'll have to get cable for sure now!!!
Can't wait to see what Timm does with this series!
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The headline says the WB . . . the article says Comedy Central. Well, which is it? Which network is doing the JLA series?
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Totally Awesome. Cartoon Network is second only to A&E video in being the coolest organization in the television/video industry (releasing the Prisoner on DVD and a fourteen disc Monty Python set pushed A&E one notch above CN).
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Im just curious as to how they will aproach it.. Dark or Light.. Personally Id find it Very cool if they took a darker approach to the JLA...Something more brooding then Men in Bright tights & capes fighting crime. The other thing Im wondering is if they will have any Non DC Comics characters in there as well ie: The wonder twins and their Space Monkey Gleek!
Wait and see I guess :) -
Nov 10, 2000 2:08:07 AM CST
St_Buggering: That Scooby Doo comment could not be more astute.
by cruel shoes
Too funny. But lay off of Aquaman, I think he's grown past the bits every College Stand Up Comic did on him in the early 90's. Between Peter David's comic and his cool appearance on Superman: TAS, Aquaman's got nothing to prove.
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Man, is this great news. The one thing they have to include is J'onn J'onzz. The JLA is just not complete without the Manhunter from Mars. Also, if you haven't seen the new X-Men series that premired last week, do yourself a favor and take a look this Saturday morning. Nightcrawler with an Image Inducer baby!!!!!
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I posted a couple weeks ago a possible roll call of the JLA series. I've since heard that in order to get the green light for the series, they had to change the proposed 'Superfriends' lineup (Batman and Robin, Superman and Supergirl, Flash and Impulse, Silver Age Aquaman, the Kyle/Halmalgam Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Hawkman and maybe Atom) to a new, more DC continuity-friendly group of heroes. Here's the new news: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, hook-handed Aquaman, John Stewart as Green Lantern and Hawkgirl. No Katar Hol. No Atom (possibly due to animation problems with the Tiny Titan). No sidekicks. I like this line up of characters. Now if we can just get them to do a Kanjar Ro story. And maybe a JSA crossover so GRUNDY can throw a boulder or two in the New Year of 2001.
Bring on the Crime Syndicate! -
IMHO, there should be a Bruce Timm superhero cartoon in the works from now until the day he dies. JLA is a fantastic idea. There are so many GREAT characters, besides the big three [Supes, Bats, WW]. I have just one suggestion: Green Lantern! I'm already on pins and needles.
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Wow! This is great! I grew up on reading the JLA, and the only true representation of them was the last two seasons of the SuperFriends francisce. And to plead ignorance, what exactly is
"IMHO"? I've seen it a few times and I am at a loss. -
Here's what I hope we get. I think Superman and Batman are givens. I'd like to see Wonder Woman, but if they're still having the problem that prevented her from being in the Batman Beyond JLA, then we might not get here. Martian Manhunter is a must, as he's the heart and soul of the League and the only one of the big seven who hasn't made it to cartoon form yet. Wally West as Flash and Kyle Rainer as Green Lantern should be there. Aquaman, if done in his Peter David reworking, will be great. One addition to round out the group a bit: Black Canary with her Canary Cry! She's a great character with a long history and she'd up the female quotient on the series. As far as baddies for them to fight, let's have Darkseid, Lex Luthor, Ra's A Ghul, Amazo, and maybe some version of the Injustice Gang. And if they do a guest shot of the JSA, I can die a happy man!
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Batman should not be in the regular lineup. He should not be in any meetings around a big table. He should stay in Gotham doing his Dark Knight thing until there is a problem that the JLA cannot solve. In their darkest hour the JLA members should look at each other and say: "There is no other way. We have to bring in The Bat." Batman must remain in the shadows.
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What, no Apache Chief, no El Dorado... what about Black Vulcan... Give me my cheesy 1970s sterotype Justice Leaguers!
Ok, just kidding. -
Well this is the best news EVER! About time this series was made. How many of us were weened on comics via the old Superfreinds series? This series will give a MAJOR shot in the arm to comics in general (specificly DC) and is a welcome (and way past its due) cartoon! Kudos to Cartoon Network for doing what the WB should have done years ago!
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Hopefully every character will be given their due and no bullshit 'hidden message for kids' stuff. If they bring back theWonder Twins or The Legion of Doom it's all over. The bad guys in the original Superfriends lived inside a super huge Darth Vader head for chrissakes! But it was underwater(How original!)
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Everyone who hates (or likes) the wonder-twits should check this out. Man that Alex Ross kicks ass. http://www.alexrossart.com/ross/pics/wallpap/wndrtwn.jpg
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Nov 10, 2000 12:09:37 PM CST
Nice Picture, Perhaps if the Wonder Twins had looked that exciti
by chiisusan
...they wouldn't be the punchline of so many jokes today. Anyways, I have to agree, The Bat should only be an occasional guest star on the JLA. It's just not his true style to be such a team player. I would like to see Superman, Wonderwoman, J'onn J'onz, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash, and Green Arrow (Oliver Queen, please) as the core team. Then maybe have guest appearances by other characters.
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OK, In my humble opinion, we already had a JLA cartoon recently and it was called SUPERMAN ADVENTURES. As much as I liked some episodes of the Timm/Dini Superman series it just infuriated me that it started to become a showcase for other superhero guest appearances! Look! It's the Flash! Ooooohhh it's Green Lantern in a crappy costume! Dr. Fate! Steel (THE crappiest character in the Superman/DC universe, just get rid of him! If we want a black character of good standing in the DCU invent a really GREAT new one and not some sad Superman wannabe that NO ONE knows what to do with!) Lobo! The New Gods! I mean why did they DO that? Let Superman stand on his own! Just because you don't have any good ideas don't just start inserting guest superheroes left and right! THINK about what you could do with Superman's own stuff. They put all that effort into Batman (Possibly one of the greatest cartoon series of all time!) and let Superman's series just fall by the wayside. And that Jimmy Olsen Superman's Pal Episode? The animation was HORRIBLE! OK, I went on a tangent. I hope they put much love into the JLA cartoon. I, for one, will now be getting cable. It's bad enough that I miss The Powerpuff Girls! Please put as much effort into JLA that you put into the original Batman series! DON'T REDESIGN THE OUTFITS! Superman's 'Future JLA' Outfit looks like CRAP! I mean, black?! WTF!!!! Man, why do they keep crapping on the first and greatest superhero ever?
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All the SUPERMAN ADVENTURES is on Cartoon Network is a cut n paste of all the crappy Supes/Batman/Aquman/GL/Flash and other cartoons they did in the early 70's by a studio whose name escapes be(always on CBS, they also did SHAZAM!!).........................
COME, TADPOLE!!!! -
Wow, and here I was thinking the JLA rumors were gonna turn out to be BS! Look, we all know that Dini and Timm have said again and again that a superhero team cartoon is just too unmanageable to do right, but as I've said before, it's that very heightened-awareness that makes 'em perfect for the job. Well, I guess Dini isn't officially associated with the project yet, but it's hard to imagine him letting Timm have all the fun. Reason #2 for my faith is the sheer level of experience Dini and Timm have between them. They've handled Batman, Superman, dozens of smaller DC heroes like the Demon, Zatanna, and the Creeper, and even turned the potentially disastrous Batman Beyond into a fine show. I trust these guys to pull off just about any damn creative project they turn their attention to.
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In the midst of this great news, it's only a matter of time before we get some naysayers going off about the difficulties associated with making a JLA cartoon work. As a preemptive strike, I'm launching a "Cormorant Classic" - a shockingly relevant reprint of a post I made all of three weeks ago when this JLA rumor first cropped up. On with the show: ********* [[ Now let's get specific - how do you work five, six, or seven characters into a 22-minute cartoon. Surely an almost impossible task to deal with successfully on a regular basis, and that's why I don't think they should even try. The way this series could work is if the League has a large membership (between 7 and 12), but since they've got their own individual responsibilities, they'll rarely all be around at once. Let's say Martian Manhunter is the one core member, perhaps even the leader. Depending on the scale and type of threat, he'll call appropriate members to deal with it, creating smaller teams of three, four, and five. I'm talking focused mission teams, not unlike...I have to admit it...the G.I.Joe cartoon of my youth. I like the idea that sometimes the JLA will be effectively short-staffed, because Superman's off chasing Brainiac or Green Lantern is in another galaxy, so occasionally the teams will be severely underpowered to deal with some major threats. You know, an alien terrorist force just put into Earth orbit, and Batman, Green Arrow, and Wonder Woman are all the Manhunter can muster on short notice. Could be fun I think! ******* But sometimes, you DO wanna see the League en masse, and part two of my solution is that the series should feature more two-, three-, even five-parters than most cartoons, in order to showcase the BIG MENACES. So when Darkseid invades, you DO get the JLA in full force, and the members won't get short-changed fighting for screen time. Naturally, the series should launch with a multi-parter (ala the "Superman" cartoon) to intro all the players. I admit, multi-parters on Saturday mornings aren't something we've seen often, but it was very successful for the "X-Men" 'toon, and besides, don't Dini and Timm specialize in innovation? ]] ********* And so ends another poignant Cormorant Classic. I doubt the creative team on the show will go with precisely this solution, but I think it's *one* way the show could work.
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He was so cool.
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YEAH! Put Firestorm in there! I'm still surprized that they haven't put him in the new JLA comic yet! He Kicks Ass!!!!!
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I hope red tape allows the Big Seven- Superman, Batman, definitely Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern (Kyle), Martian Manhunter (he deserves some mainstream attention, as the most enduring member of the team), Aquaman, PLUS Plastic Man (I love Plastic Man, if he is written intelligently, he can actually make a great character; he doesn't have to appear in every episode), and Steel. Atom would be nice too. I hope they utilize the comic's reserve status and use other heroes. It would be great to see Orion, Black Canary, Huntress, Young Justice, the Titans, The JSA, the Injustice Gang, Parallax, Spectre, Dr. Fate.... I'm rambling. But this could be a big door for DC comics and the comics industry. They should do some tv ads like G.I. Joe comics used to do and run them during the shows.
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Okay, here are my thoughts. this might take a while. First of all, it would be great to have the big seven but we're talking about a 30 min. show here so we would need a smaller team of about 5 people which I think is Timm's intent anyway. I whole heartedly agree with what ToxMusashi & Chiisusan had to say about Batman. We need Superman in there because, well he's Superman. Secondly, We should have a WonderWoman because she is such strong female character. Flash is probably my favorite leaguer but all he does is run really fast which Superman can do, so he's out. J'onn is also out because he is basically a Superman clone with some added abilities. He is useful in linking the team telepathically but we can get around this with communicators or some such technology. Green Lantern is in because he brings all the cosmic stories with him (I was actually quite satisfied with the character they introduced in Superman Adventures, and I loved the costume). Aquaman is out, I love the character but there are only so many ocean based stories we can do, and what's a king doing running around with these guys anyway? Green Arrow can play the gruff thinker type character because right now we only have muscle. Black Canary could also be a street smart fighter. She creates some romantic tension with Ollie and would work well alongside WonderWoman so that we do not have a male dominated team. She would need her sonic scream to make her interesting to the kiddies. Other than that, bring in Batman, Aquaman, Flash, J'onn J'onzz, Atom, Oracle, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, and Steel (I happen to love him because he's a thinker and DC's answer to Iron Man) for guest appearances and I will be happy. Oh, and put them on the moon.
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This is a great opportunity to put some of the smaller characters into the spotlight. Of course Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman will always be lurking around. I like the idea of them being brought in when push comes to shove. What I really relish is the idea of lots of character-driven stand-alone episodes, and then the "universal threat" story arcs, of course, that bring them all together. As always, I hope they throw in a wonderfully angsty Bats/WW/Supes triangle.
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Okay, I just read Cormorant's post and i think he's right. They should still use my line up though. Also, if they can't use WonderWoman, use Zatanna so that we can have some magic stories and more fishnet stockings! Oh, and I've read an interview where Dini stated that he never had any desire to do a JLA cartoon and that it is completely a Bruce Timm thing. That kind of sucks, but at least we'll get to see what he can do without Dini at his side.
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Simply put, don't make the series episodic, make it so that the whole team gets the spotlight over several episodes. After all, that is how DBZ works, and for the most part, it runs just well. But it does lengthen the fights a bit, and the fights have to be more "epic" in scale. After all, it's a superteam, and they tend to be quite powerful united.
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Dude, I surely hope Bruce Timm either reads your post, or comes up with it himself. I can't imagine the JLA working any better than that. That way, you could even have Batman on the roster, and not take away his image of the Dark Knight. I always thought it'd be a bad idea for him to give up his watch over Gotham to join the JLA full-time. But, if he were a PART-time member, like the modern day version had him (before he was kicked out).
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. . . God bless Cartoon Network! Now, if they start showing He-Man and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, I'll never leave the house!
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Alright, as previously noted, I think small specialist teams chosen from a large membership pool are the way to handle a JLA cartoon. Here's the folks I think should be a part of that large pool: **** The Martian Manhunter - As the one JLA'er that's been in every incarnation of the team, he MUST be on board. I'd pick him as leader, and setting up the rationale behind that should be the thrust of the first episode (or a multi-part pilot, if they're smart). If he's the guy that initially gathers the team and they portray him as a slick tactician, I think audiences will buy him in command. Batman and Superman can be eliminated as potential leaders because of their individual commitments, and after them, there's really no one else to consider. Someone noted that the Manhunter is too close in powers to Superman to include. Partially true, so they should revamp him and cut his powers a bit. Focus on his shape-changing, invisibility, and telepathy (the unique stuff). Drop any vision powers, and maybe even flight. Decrease his strength level. Give him a creepy voice and make him *seem* alien. Now he's unique. **** Superman - The quintessential powerhouse. Call him in only for cases that are real ballbreakers. He's the bombing strike when the field grunts are pinned down. **** Batman - Too cool not to be in, but like Supes, he should be used sparingly. When he is around, his personality should dominate the team. Showcase his detective skills and analytical mind. **** Green Lantern - I've never been a big GL fan, but I was very pleased with how they handled him on the Superman cartoon. I'd love to see him as the powerhouse member when Supes isn't around (his power balanced, of course, by his inexperience). **** The Flash - Sure, Superman can run fast too, but Flash does a million more wacked-out things with the power 'cause it's all he's got. Besides, I'm hoping Supes won't be around every episode. Flash makes for a good group "hothead" too - the show-off, the ladies' man, etc. **** Wonder Woman - I'd love to see her given a fierce interpretation based on her Amazonian origins - Superman-level strength, but sporting a hawkish attitude. Everyone says she's tied up in legal red tape though. Bummer, but the character has enough potential to carry her own series...one day. **** Aquaman - As lame as he is, he's practically a Justice League icon, and they have used him on the Superman cartoon. Recruit the loser, but use him even more sparingly than Batman and Superman. Sea missions only! **** Hawkman/Hawkwoman - Flying's a pretty forgettable power, but give one or both of these characters some high-tech Thanagarian weapons and gadgets to go with their medieval arsenal and you're getting somewhere. Factor in the nearly-fascistic cop attitudes they sported when John Ostrander wrote 'em in "Hawkworld", and you've got characters the audience will remember. Also, remember that they're aliens, so along with the Martian Manhunter, they should be key players when extraterrestrial menaces show. **** Green Arrow - Superhero archers rock, fact of life. Hawkeye's cool, so is Green Arrow. What they lack in power they make up for in attitude. Give us the brash Oliver Queen version of Green Arrow with his radical leftist leanings, Robin Hood beard, and cool-as-hell costume. Bonus rationale: he's a foil for Hawkman. **** That's a fairly solid core group I think, small enough to introduce most of 'em in a three-part season opener. Coming next, my picks for second-tier members and specialists...
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Nov 11, 2000 1:04:39 AM CST
Not That This Really Has Anything To Do With Any Of This, But. .
by cowblaster
Wasn't Batman kicked-out of the JLA because he kept tabs on how to kill each member of the group (just in case)? Man, that would ROCK if they used that little tidbit somewhere in the series. No, they shouldn't boot Batman necissarily, just show that he keeps track of his allies' weaknesses, just in case they get out of control. It shows just how bad-ass ol' Bats is, and how he keeps prepared for the worse by keeping record of how to specifically kill each and every friend he has. I mean it, that's just cool!
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**** The Atom - Don't know a thing about the guy other than the fact that he shrinks, is a scientist, and was pretty cool in one of those JLA story arcs penned by Grant Morrison. Howsabout setting up his alter ego, Ray Palmer, as the recurring science consultant for the JLA? At one point or another while he's helping the JLA, whatever weirdness it is that gives him his powers occurs, and he saves the day. From that point on, along with being the JLA science-guy, he'll occasionally join 'em on missions where his shrinky power will come in handy. Stealth stuff. **** Zatana - Look, *every* superhero team should have a cute magician chick in fishnet stockings. She'll be the JLA consultant for funky magic-based villains. She fills the Dr. Fate void. Fate appeared on an episode of Superman once and was as eminently forgettable there as he's always been in the comics, so Zatana gets the magic spot. **** Mr. Miracle & Big Barda - At some point or another, the JLA are gonna have to go toe-to-toe with big, bad Darkseid himself, and during the course of that adventure, these two will help them out and become honorary members. They'll show up on occasion to inject a little Jack Kirby weirdness into the group, and eventually star in their own unfathomably cool New Gods spin-off cartoon. Well, that's my dream anyway. **** Plastic Man - I've never liked that this great characters was merged with the DC Universe in the first place, but if Dini wrote him, I bet he'd inject some nice levity into the group. Maybe. **** Supergirl - Superman won't think she's ready for it, but every once in a while, she'll squirm her way into a JLA mission. She was a great character on the Superman cartoon and deserves an outlet for new adventures. **** The Creeper - Pretty funny as written on the Batman cartoon, he might provide the comedy relief if Plastic Man's unavailable. In fact, he's got a slight edge on Plas since his origin has already been told. **** Firestorm - I'm surprised anyone else even remembers this old 80's hero, but I like him too. The concept of a hero who's a dumb college kid fused with the mind of a physicist is actually pretty cool. Great costume, and he's got fire for hair. I have no idea how he could be incorporated since the Kyle Rainer Green Lantern already covers the superpowered-kid-with-very-little-experience niche, but I'd still like to see him. Maybe he turns to the JLA for help when his powers run rampant. Maybe he's just a superhero they bump into to help them on a single mission. Whatever. He's cool, he should appear at some point. **** The Wonder Twins - I kid you not. For one episode only, these two characters show up to help the JLA battle some alien menace. Anyone who's ever watched Superfriends cringes with dread, but Dini and Timm actually play the twins cool for the first time in their history. Space monkey Gleek will be a seven-foot-tall monstrosity. It could work, leaving audiences everywhere gape-jawed.
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I heard about that story arc too, Cowblaster, and I must admit it's a cool concept (from what I heard, Batman's old enemy Ras Al Ghul gets hold of his JLA plans and puts 'em into action). Mark Waid wrote it and I generally avoid his stuff, but the idea is sound. Considering all the mind-controllers, shape-shifters and aliens a group like the JLA meets, it actually makes sense that tactician like Batman would figure out ways to neutralize individual members. Yeah, I think they could adapt it for the cartoon too.
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Cormorant, yeah! Just imagine a whole episode that takes place from the readings of Batman's files, and gives us good depth as to the characters themselves (kinda like those episodes of M*A*S*H where someone would write a letter to someone telling about each character on the show, showing clips as each is mentioned). For example, they could have Batman Voice-Over a scene (reading an exerpt from his files) explaining who the Flash is, how his power works, and how his own arrogance can be used against him (or something like that), while we see a scene of Flash in action! That would make for a pretty cool episode in my opinion.
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I'd like to clarify a point or two on the expultion of Batman from the team. First, Bats never learned of the vote to oust him, and second, I think he still considers himself a member. If anyone has the most recent issue, take a look, you'll find him hiding in at least one panel. As to the JLA dream team, well, here goes; Martian Manhunter, he is the heart and soul of this team, and every version without him has sucked to the extreme. Green Lantern, I mean, hey, who doesn't like GL? The Flash, I don't care what anyone else thinks, Wally West is faster than Superman any day of the week. Fire & Ice, two females to play off Wally and Kyle. Green Arrow, God almighty, Ollie Queen is the shit! Last but not least, Superman and Batman, obviously. Throw in Big Barda and Mr. Miracle halfway through the season, and you're cookin with gas! Now, the key to a group this large is, keep it fluid. There is no need to have Supes and Bats dominate. Hell, the earlier shows did this; both Nightwing and Robin had shows that featured them almost exclusively. Oh, and put their base on the old JLA satalite. Man that place was great.
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Concerning the recent 'Batman Protocols'? They were designed to NON-LETHALLY DISABLE the JLA as a last-ditch resort, not kill. Batman even went to the trouble of inventing a non-lethal form of kryptonite ... turning mustard gas to tear gas, for example.
Getting back on topic ... this series could be good. Might I suggest putting those on 'The Big Seven' who don't have their own series on permanantly, with the 'lesser heroes' coming on and off on a rotating basis. The idea to have Superman and Batman on occasionally is a great idea, and should be pursued. -
Okay, talking about the line up:
Superman and Batman are sure as hell- perjhaps not in ervery episode, but they'll be there! GL (kyle) and Flash (wally). Sure as well. They are famous, they were already seen in the series...
Wonder Woman. One of DC's Big Three. Martian Manhunter. Come on, he IS the JLA! So far, we have a number of powerful characters, but we can't put too much in the series, can we? so I vote for: Green Arrow, one of my all - time favourites (woth the Neal Adams look and the Mike Grell attitude... just dreamin!)! he's gotta be in! come on, Kevin Smith is goin to bring him back to the newsstands, why shouldn't he get his apperance? and , as much as I'd like to see Steel or Aquaman, another female character should be included... Perhaps Zatanna, as she has already been seen in the series, though I'd prefer Black Canary! -
Watched the (to me) underwhelming BATMAN BEYOND episode this monring that introduced the "Justice League Unlimited," the future version of the JLA. In the ep, when Superman was introducing the future Batman to the League, he mentioned that the original Batman was a founding member of the original League. Given this exchange, we must assume that both Batman AND Superman will be members in Timm's new League. Plus, it would make sense that the only way Cartoon Network would greenlight a series would be that it at least had the Big Two to showcase (unlike the recent AVENGERS series, which eliminated its Big Three of Cap, Iron Man and Thor for some reason). As for other members, going by the roster of the JLU, I'd have to say safe bets for inclusion in the JLA would be Green Lantern, Aquaman, Hawkman, and the Atom, simply because their future counterparts were members -- but of course, "safe" doesn't mean "certain." Don't know about Wonder Woman; Barda seemed to be the surrogate for WW, but then, I would have imagined that if she had been a founding member, something would have been said in response to Superman. Since this post is getting too long now, I'll post my picks for a roster elsewhere.
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I think Batman and Superman are definitely in, given that they are the proven characters, WB's Big Two, and another reason detailed in a **SPOILER** post above. Also regarding the **SPOILER**, I think the next leading candidates (who are by no means certain) are Green Lantern, Hawkman, Aquaman, and the Atom. Now, according to an interview that I remember reading with Dini regarding a JLA toon (don't remember where or when), he stated that one of the original ideas for SUPERMAN was to slowly introduce various other superheroes, who would then band together as a formal JLA in the final episode. With that in mind, Dini may be going with a roster of only characters that have appeared in the toons to this point. That said, I can see a roster of Superman, Batman, the Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Steel, and Zatanna, with the POSSIBLE inclusion of Wonder Woman and/or the Martian Manhunter just because those two round out the Big Seven. However, I'd like to see Green Arrow, Firestorm, Hawkman, and the Atom in some form somewhere oalong the line. That said, I think the poster who proposed the splintered team concept had a damn good idea...what beter way to spotlight everyone at some point, while still telling good stories?
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Batman and Superman should definitly be in the JLA since they are the 2 flagship characters of DC Comics. They both have had their own series so they have an established backstory and history with each other. The rest of the core team should consist of the big seven which includes Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman and The Martian Manhunter. The first episode should be Batman and Superman going up against a threat that they are totally trashed by. They then realize that the need help. So they go and recruit the other 5 members. The second episode should be that they vanquish the threat and they all decide that they should band together on a permanant basis and form the JLA. Over the next few episodes these characters need to be established. When this is done, then other characters need to show up. Either coming to the JLA for help or just happen to be around when the JLA show up to take on a threat. Then they would become reserve members. Popping up from time to time. These reserve members should be Green Arrow, Black Canary, Hawkman and Hawkwoman, The Atom, Zatanna, Dr. Fate, Black Lightning, Captain Marvel and Firestorm. These reserve members should not be introduced all at once, but over the course of the second half of the first season. They could also do a few episodes where the some or most of the core group are not available and the reserve members can be spotlighted. They could also pick and choose teams for certain missions or do like the old JL of A comic. In that comic, whoever was at the JLA satellite when a threat arose was the team that took on that threat. However, I think that at least Batman or Superman should appear in every episode because these are the 2 that all the rest rally behind. The possibility for great stories are endless. They could do some episodes that can be wrapped up in a single episode and do some that takes 2 or three episodes to complete depending on the size of the threat. Villians that need to show up include Lex Luthor, The Joker, Darkseid, Starro, Amazo, and pretty much any other major villan or galactic threat. Luthor would also eventually form the Injustice League. This would be great for the end of the first season. At the end of the episode the Injustice Leage defeats the JLA with only a few escaping. This would be a great cliffhanger ending for the first season and a great springboard into the premiere of the second season. The Injustice League should have a core roster of Luthor, The Joker, Black Manta, The Reverse Flash, Cheeta, Sinestro, and Felix Faust. Some other villans could be brought in to the group also to either join these members or to replace some of them from time to time. For instance, If The Joker was incarcerated, he could be replace with The Scarecrow. I think this would make for an epic and monumental animated series. It could end up being the greatest of all time since it is about the greates superteam of all time, The JLA.
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That's all I ask. Please Mr Timm, make it happen.
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It's going to be a GREAT show.
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if they go along with the mission-teams idea. Otherwise, it really wouldn't make sense. I mean, Batman isn't called the Dark Knight of Gotham for nothing, and Supes has got Metropolis. I also think that Lobo should show up for only a few, scattered episodes where he works with the JLA, then works for the bad guys, then the good guys, and well, you get the picture. It would be really funny, since nobody would know what side he's on. Also, I definitely think that Batman would have a file on how to kill and incapacitate the members, since that the JLU on BB is led by Supes, and it turns out that Wayne has kryptonite to kill Superman (I don't think it was that good though). Anyways, if they use these suggestions on all the posts, it will rock!
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'nuff said.
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The JLA stories of the 60's and 70's almost always followed the concept of The League breaking up into smaller teams to tackle different aspects of the situation they faced, usually ending with the whole team massing together for the final battle. I also agree that the Martian Manhunter should be the defacto leader, with him bringing together the core team. This would be an excellent opportunity to give his origin for those who aren't familiar with him.
Hopefully, while the series will probably start with the big seven, this is the perfect venue for the lesser known and never before animated heros to gain a whole new exposure. Firestorm, Zatanna, Black Canary (with or without sonic abilities, Hmmm, can you animate Matrix style martial arts abilties?) would be some that I'd love to see.
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Nov 11, 2000 9:15:58 PM CST
To Ted Pikul: The ads were for BATMAN BEYOND, not a JLA series
by tjl5714
Ted Pikul, the ads you saw were for a two-part epsiode of BATMAN BEYOND that aired today (11/11) that introduced the future JLA (or "Justice League Unlimited," as they are known in the BB-verse). The roster was made up of the future Superman and Barda, along with future versions of Green Lantern, Hawkman, the Atom, and Aquaman. The idea for a proper JLA series has been kicking around for a while, with Timm and Dini very hesitant to do it until now (for whatever reason). So while the JLA/U that debuted today may have looked like an AVENGERS-esque attempt at the team, keep in mind it wasn't the "real thing" (thankfully, as I thought it was rather underwhelming).
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Oh joyous day! I was just praying that the team at WB would do another DC series along with the video features they seem to be wanting to make, and JLA is great news! My opinions? Here goes: Include 7 to 10 members, but instead of doing individual episodes, use season-long story arcs like Dragon Ball Z or Buffy the Vampire Slayer during which we gradually learn more and more about the characters. A continuing saga leading to an explosive climax. There are many, many years worth of comic out there to adapt from. And this IS Toonami. Members? Supes and Bats and WW, of course. Martian Manhunter isn't as cool to me as to most of you, but I don't see why you wouldn't include him. Aquaman is the worst character ever created, but he's a given. Green Lantern. Rock. Flash. Rock. Personally, I'd love to see Supergirl appear because I loved her on the Superman series and she could bring a youthful voice to the proceedings. Besides, we know how much the networks love teen heroes. Look at X-Men and Static Shock capitalizing on Batman Beyond. Maybe she'd get along real well with GL since they're both eager but inexperienced. The character I really want to see at all costs, though, is Plastic Man. He's such a great anti-hero and funny as all get out. Now I know some of you don't like him in the comics, feeling he doesn't fit in with the DC Universe, but remember this is animation and he's perfect for it. As far as other characters go, well, to quote Toyfare's Spiderman "Take the Green Fifth Wheel here. Why the hell does a team with Superman and Wonder Woman need a guy that shoots arrows?" To which Superman replies "Ollie's a valued member of the team... and he makes great coffee." There are way too many great characters to include them all, so you have to go with your stregnths. Characters that are allready established, or that are truly helpful in telling stories and establishing interested relationships. (After all, we aren't talking about Superfriends). If there are several seasons (Like I hope there will be), there will be plenty of time to introduce different nooks and crannies of the DCU. Oh, yeah and one more quote from Spidey: "It's a good thing Aquaman and his non-powers were here to help." HAHAHA!
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Since we don't have a talkback for this yet, I would like to chime in a few things here and there about the first episode. First: I think the animators are so used to drawing dark, red Gotham that Metropolis seemed a little bland. In fact, it almost didn't seem like it changed a bit from the Metropolis of S:TAS. Second: I think the voice of Supes is the same as Jor-El, but I can't stand it. Art and animation this episode seemed a little weak, too. Finally, it it just me, or did BatmanB's cape look strange? Not a knock, but did anyone else notice how much more powerful Superman is? He lifted up a cruise ship easily (as opposed to the Supes of TAS who could barely hold up railroad tracks with a running train). Yeah, I suspect he might be on KC power levels, where not even a K-bomb could hurt him... On the plus side, I'm running all sorts of combos in my head trying to figure out WHO really is the traitor. C'mon! We all know it REALLY isn't ! I think I've ruled out Martians of all varieties, if only because of the fires and explosions.
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Someone mentioned that there were legal problems with using Wonder Woman in the JLU on Batman Beyond, which might also compromise her being in the JLA series...can anyone elaborate on this? I was under the assumption that DC held total control over it's characters...(saw her on a Kraft mac'n'cheese box...:D). *** Also, why was Batman ejected from the JLA comic book series? I don't read much in the way of comics nowadays, but the stories still interest me. :) *** Dlhstar: Funny how he could lift up that up with ease, but that building that was falling over was a strain. :P
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Just when I thought I read every post, there's the one that said why Bats was booted from the JLA...:(
Wayne rules. ;D -
Once Bruce Timm comes around, he'll realize the only way another JLA show could work. They shouldn't keep Batman in the shadows, they need to make him and Robin fetch them a coffee and danish every morning. The group should have Superman, Wonderwoman, Green Lantern, and Aquaman. When they run into trouble that's too difficult for even their combined powers, they entire the holy shrine room and call forth the powers of none other than Bruce Campbell! He'll make at least two appearances per season and will have laser guns for eyes. He needs to wear a big pink bunny suit too.
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One story they would absolutly have to do would be where the JlA face off against their evil counterparts from another dimension. They were known as The Crime Syndicate of America.
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Have they said when this series is going to start? I can't wait.
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Ahh, yes. The old JLA and Super Friends cartoons bring back such fond memories. The WOnder Twins. That frikkin' monkey. Apache Chief. Samurai. Too much goodness. This is a series that just needs to happen. Given the popularity of JLA comics it's a no brainer. I would love to see the big three (Bats, Wonder Woman, and Supes) in the league, but I think that since each of those characters are almost too big to be in the same story. Think about it. In recent issues of the JLA, Batman is always in the shadows plotting somewhere or busy in Gotham. WonderWoman is always in Superman's shadow, while Superman, himself, is always off holding a planet or something. The most interesting interaction in the comic is the character play between Green Lantern and the Flash. My personal opinion, while BAts, Supes and WW should be in the series, I think they should keep the Magnificent Seven, but keep the Big Three on solely as cameo appearances. Ambush Bug's Magnificent Seven: 1.Martian Manhunter (way past due to be depicted in the cartoon, I can't believe he didn't make an appearance in the Superman cartoon, plus if Supes isn't in the league, J'onn J'onnz is the next best thing). 2.Green Lantern and 3.Flash (these two are a given since they have already been introduced in the Superman series). 4.Aquaman (yes, a comedy favorite. The king of the Seven seas has to be in it, but recent comics have made the once one-note character into a different type of hero. It's a shame so many people write this character off.). 5.Zatanna (already introduced in Batman and could fight the mystical element, plus cooler than Dr. Fate who was introduced in Superman. She could be Wonder Woman's replacement). 6. Green Arrow (perfect replacement for Batman. He's no where as good, but he's cooler than cool and there needs to be a person without powers in this group to bring these god-like beings back to earth. Ollie's been gone from comics for too long, he needs to be in this league). 7. Tossup- Hawkman or Atom. Both of them are interesting characters. The Hawkman and Green Arrow's fisticuffs were always interesting, but something tells me that this cartoon series is not going to be deep enough to have some political debates. Atom's a scientist, which could help out the team on those technical missions, so I guess I have to go with him. That's it. Sure it isn't the most powerful team ever, but a less powerful team with these characters would make the challenges more interesting in my opinion. With my Magnificent Seven and the Big Three helping out on occasion that gives us a cast of ten. (And you all thought Ambush Bugs couldn't count) That's a big enough cast for a half hour cartoon. I think it is about time DC gave their other great characters some time to shine. Batman and Superman have had their chance. Great characters like Green Arrow and Zatanna should be given a chance in the spotlight too. Bug out.
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I would like to see the Big 7: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, The Flash, Martian Manhunter, and Green Lantern as the core members on the new JLA cartoon.
They wouldn't all have to appear in every episode, but I would like to see them all used on a regular basis. If Wonder Woman was unavailable for some reason, Black Canary (with sonic cry) could stand in for her.
Other heroes I would like to see on appear on the show: Green Arrow, Plastic Man, Hawkman, The Atom, Steel, Supergirl, Robin, Firestorm, Zatanna, Black Lightning, Orion, Barda, Blue Beetle, Batgirl, Dr. Fate, Captain Atom, Metamorpho, Hawkwoman, Captain Marvel, Mister Miracle, Adam Strange, Vixen, The Creeper, and The Red Tornado.
Guest appearances by the JSA, Teen Titans, Legion of Super-Heroes, and the Suicide Squad would also be cool.
For villains: Injustice League (with Lex Luthor, The Joker, Sinestro, Mirror Master, The Cheetah, Black Manta, and Solomon Grundy), Ares, Wotan, Darkseid, Eclipso, Despero, Kanjor Ro, Starro, The Royal Flush Gang, Felix Faust, Brainiac, Ra's Al Ghul, Sivania, Queen Bee, Overmaster, Vandal Savage, Amazo, T.O. Morrow, Professor Ivo, Epoch, The Construct, The Manhunters, The Key, Dr. Light, Gorilla Grodd, and Dr. Destiny.
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I made the crucial mistake of not reading Cormorant's earlier post about a larger league. Terrible mistake. Once again, Cormorant is correct. A large league would be great. There would be a greater chance of everyone's favorites to show up, but I still think there should be some core members that should be in every episode for the sake of the series' continuity. My Magnificent Seven- Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Atom, Zatanna, and Aquaman could be the core. The team could be watched over and sometimes helped out by the Big Three: Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. I really like the idea of Martian MAnhunter sending out certain groups of heroes to counter specific challenges, but this sounds a lot like Justice League Task Force, a failed spin off of the Justice League that became increasingly bad since a bunch of no-namers were being used to make up the team. DC has a pantheon of heroes that need to be used. That is what I love about the DC universe. Almost every character has an older and younger counterpart. There is a real mythic sense of generations here. Grant Morrison touched upon this by structuring the JLA like the Pantheon of the Greek Gods. The cartoon should base it's roster on this. The stories are going to be crucial and I think Bruce Timm and CO. will really make this out to be a good series. The main problem with team stories is that there are always a few characters who do all the action, while the rest of the members stand around with their thumbs in their tights. That is another reason to keep the team as small as possible. It's cool to use Firestorm in a story, but if its a battle scene and Firestorm just flies by in the background and that's it, why use him? Using Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman all of the time, runs the risk of overshadowing equally interesting characters. Sure balls out, mega-cast, epic battles have to happen, but I think a core group of well developed characters would treat the league with the respect it deserves and make a better series.
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Please God. Please.
Guy Gardner, the Punk Lantern. Flame and Ice, bimbos with superpowers. Blue Beetle--he has a cool vehicle. Animalman.
All of them way out of their league with half-assed or misaligned and barely pasting together successes.
Being promoted by the ultimate yuppie entreneur, Max.
Batman a spooky occasional drop-in.
Superman someone they occasionally run into, way out of their league.
Please. Enough I don't need any more Dark Knight crap. I need the REAL Justice League. The wanna-bes and the never-wills.
Please God. Please. -
Giffen and McGuire's JLA was one of the best incarnations of the team. Sure they didn't really have any of the big guns, but Guy Gardner, Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Fire, Ice and J'onn J'onzz made the most interesting team of the late eighties. It's too bad DC doesn't get their act together and bring this team back in some form or another. Guy Gardner's "fight" with Batman. Blue Beetle's BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA's. J'onn's oreo addiction. This team didn't have to battle cosmic menaces every issue. They were too busy bickering and trying to live with themselves. It was like a monthly sitcom. A cartoon based on the late 80's version of the JLA would be too good to be true. Too bad DC didn't make that Blue and Gold series with Blue Beetle and Booster Gold. God that would have been cool.
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Am I the only one here that didn't like Giffen & McGuire's League? No offense, I just think that the League should be a team that handles the huge threats. They oughtta be able to kick the Authority's ass. The 80's League just wasn't my thing, and I would hate for this show to end up as second tier heroes spouting off one-liners. That was what the Tick was for. The Tick rocked.
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Flash, Green Lantern,Hawkman,Supergirl,Atom,Zatanna,Catwoman
And bring back Freakazoid! -
Man I just hate that! And if it isn't Scooby, it's those damn Power Puff Girls. Cartoon Network owns huge chunks of the some of the best animated shorts ever made and they show Scooby Doo for at least 50% of their schedule.
It's like WB and Pokemon. It seems to be a disturbing trend at a lot of networks now: Take what currently has mass popularity and play it to death.
TV Land/Nick At Night's the same way... You get used to spending the evening with Andy Griffith, Archie Bunker and Ralph & Norton only to turn on the TV and be tormented with week-long dueling marathons of Facts of Life and Adam-12! Arrrgh!
Whatever happened to variety?
Kid Z -
Mstrb1ack-
There is no way in hell the JLA could beat the Authority. I love the JLA, but they are basically nice guys & gals, for the most part. Heck, even Batman basically operates under his own moral code. The Authority, however are vicious bastards, all... they'd make mincemeat of the JLA! -
Booster Gold! That was the name I couldn't remember. Blue and Gold.
Feelings of exquisite pleasure as I remember sharing those books with girlfriend.
Actually, I believe that Giffen and Maguire's JLA inspired Tick. Very similar in tone.
Well, at least start the first episode with the Big Guns throwing Booster, Beetle and Max out of HQ.
Look, I still remember being a kid in the early 60s, poking around that dusty drug store Upstate in West Eaton (pop 200) and finding either the second or third JLA/JSA crossover (and I followed the JSA all the way to Valhalla )).
Seems like even at the beginning of the Silver Age, partners were splitting up. I remember Hal Jordan leaving the airfield and his little Japanese partner crying as they split up.
I made Golden Age Hawkman masks when I was a kid because they were WAY easier than Silver Age Hawkman.
I remember crying when Jonn Jonn'z left the League forever as he returned to Mars. I must have been 6!
I wanted to BE Hourman.
Later I watched GL and GA travel across America. I watched Speedy get addicted to heroin.
So I feel as if I've got some chops here when I push for the 80s League.
Look: the logic of that 80's League was this: Batman's a loner. He's not a group kind of guy. Not a joiner. When he becomes one, logic and character are disemboweled. He frightens people. Everybody. He is not a pleasant individual, and when the group decides to go one way, if he doesn't like it he WILL go the other way. Why would they want him?
Superman? Why the hell does he need these guys? He's a an atomic bomb with legs and a cape. Their all rubber bullets, barely. (Cept for Lantern, but Hal was a such a drama queen, always flashing off to OA or some damn thing -- yeah, I know Hal's dead, there;s no Corps or OA or anything - )
Which leaves -- everybody else.
And it was this "everybody else" feeling that really PLACED the League. THESE GUYS NEED TO BE IN A GROUP because they NEED EACH OTHER'S HELP to solve SUPERMAN sized problems!
Fact is, there are only two reasons to be in a group.
1. You face REALLY BIG PROBLEMS that it takes more than one costumed wierdo to fix. Truth be told, unless you artifically gen these, they don't come up that often. If TimePrince or SpinMaster is creating a problem in Central City, usually apply a little Flash and problem is solved. Anything else is overkill.
2. You have a bunch of normal, confused human beings who are a little more powerful than normal, or even a lot, but are just not Superman or Batman, sui generis, so that when they run into problems they need to organize! (Wow, more Democratic too!)
Also, JLA was the first book I came across that even BOTHERED to deal with the commercial realities of running a group likes this, sans millionaire playboys. Of COURSE they'd have to promote it. It's how they make their living. They've got to eat!
Bombast, gloom, power and darkness work really well for Batman, but for everyone else that kind of stuff should be left at the door. It works for Batman 'cause he's always battling a dark murderer in his head and he's one step away from being a psychopath himself. But almost every other hero lives in a sunnier universe than Bats.
I hope!
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Just occurred to me - you could make an argument that the late 80's JLA was the first hero group whose adventures were about ..nothing. Nothing ever happened. A bunch of things happened, or they saw things happen.
Before Seinfeld! -
Actually, I've got pretty much the entire Giffen Justice League run...but it's all gathering dust in a box marked "to sell". Flipped through a number of 'em the other day - those comics do NOT hold up at all. It was a decent experiment considering the previous incarnation of the League included Vibe the breakdancer, and I enjoyed 'em at the time, but in retrospect...BAAAD. Kind of like a one-note gag stretched out for five years. Kind of like a late-season episode of "Happy Days" where the laugh track keeps going off, but the humor is actually repetetive and stale. The only influence I'd like to see the JLI (yep, it was Justice League INTERNATIONAL back then) have on a potential cartoon would be through minor nods: ****J'onn Jonzz's cookie fetish is fair game. *****Maxwell Lord could be an amusing guest star as a corporate shark who tries to reshape the JLA (their pain-in-the-ass equivalent of the Avengers' Henry Gyrich) ****Fire & Ice...gah...no more than cameos as rejected League candidates. I can see the Flash voting for 'em though ;) ****Blue Beetle - He has some potential as a member if they make him the League's gadget-man as well. Plastic Man or the Creeper would be funnier though, and if they use the Atom, the science/tech guy angle is already covered. ****Guy Gardner - Surely the most annoying character in the world ever to gain a cult following, but used sparingly and written by Dini (who made Lobo cool), I can buy him as a Kyle Rayner replacement for a few episodes. He creates havoc, makes an ass of himself, and gets flattened by Batman's famous "one punch!". A good time's had by all and he's booted out never to be seen again. Cool? ****I had some gripes here and there with Grant Morrison's JLA run (largely with the bad artists involved), but all in all, I think it represented the ideal staging of the JLA - powerful, larger-than-life, smartly written, high concepts. Had a good bit of humor too, but character development took a complete back seat to adventure (as will almost certainly be the case in adapting the League to a 22-minute cartoon). I'd actually prefer a *little* more room to breathe and develop characters than Grant showcased, but in general, his run should be the major influence on Timm's cartoon. Giffen's JLI...best left as a quaint 80's artifact.
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Cormorant, you dare rip on Giffen/Mcguire JLA. And Guy Gardner too? Arrrgh!!!! Those old issues still hold up. Guy ardner was the most interesting Green Lantern of them all. He was the hothead. Much like Green Arrow before him, he caused interesting inner group conflicts and made the team more three-dimensional. There is nothing like that in today's incarnation. Flash runs. Green LAntern feels like he will never get out of Hal's shadow. Aquaman broods. Batman broods. Superman holds up a planet. The closest thing to inner team conflict is when Superman and Batman disagree. There are no characters causing tension and conflict in the group. That's what made the JLA of the 80's most interesting. They were too busy fighting amongst themselves to battle any villains. Today's JLA is great. They take on the big problems and are like gods, but they lack the personality the 80's incarnation did. It was the fact that these guys were a bunch of imbiciles that made the comic so interesting. You wanted to see how these boobs would tackle the big roblems. Blue Beetle and Booster Gold were hilarious. And J'onn overseeing all of the madness playing the straight man was great. The scene where Batman beats Guy Gardner with one punch was classic. Sure the stories were spread a little thin when they started making tons of spinn-offs, but the original series was a classic. I wish they would make more comics like that these days. It is too bad we are innundated with Watchmen clone/twisted JLA titles like The Authority. Plus the original JLA series had G'nort! Viva la G'nort!
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Nov 13, 2000 12:42:31 PM CST
Great!! Now if they could just start re-running those '60s Spid
by silentbob5000
Let's just hope they use
the classic roster of Superman,
Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Batman and Robin, Aquaman, et al.
Finally, this channel gets some
quality programming(aside from Courage and Gundam Wing) It would be a huge boon to comic fans everywhere since the Avengers'
toon tanked on Fox after 1 measly
outing. -
The aftermath of the vote to boot Batman out will continue into the 50th issue. Then the January special 5th week series will be called Justice Leagues when everyone on earth gets amnesia and then have to deal with an invasion from the stars and the amnesiac heroes form seperate JLA teams to try and figure out what the JLA is. Look for Justice League of Arkham(killer line-up), Justice League of ALiens(which is just plain cool), and Justice League of Amazons(sexy women), add Justice League of Action, Justice League of Atlantis, and Justice League of AIr, you got an interesting storyline.
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Hey, I agree that Morrison's JLA could've used more character development, but I submit that character development isn't always necessary to produce a great superhero comic. Character conflict has traditionally been a great asset for, say, the Avengers, but Morrison dropped it in favor of one-upping just about everyone in the action department, and it worked in spades I think. His clear focus on high-concept, kick-ass action was as much of a breath of fresh air as Giffen's Justice League seemed like at the time. For me, the freshness faded on Giffen's League, but I think Morrison's JLA will stand the test of time above all previous JLA stories. And I maintain that it's the incarnation best-suited for cartoony translation. I'll compromise with you a little, agreeing that the cartoon needs some fun "downtime" moments, but I stop way short of the sitcom approach. **** Moving on... Guy Gardner interesting? Not to me. He was a two-dimensional asshole who made a decent foil for the team, but I'd never go so far as to call his character interesting. Every once in a while Giffen would fit him with a new schtick (his touchy-feely amnesiac persona, his crush on Ice, his idolization of that patriotic superhero whose name escapes me), but he had no real depth. Just a cheap instigator in hindsight. The comic to find personality with in those days was DC's "Suicide Squad". That title was the king of combining internal conflict with rockin' action stories, and Captain Boomerang was a love-to-hate-him team member to put Guy Gardner to shame! "Suicide Squad", come back! Coolest superhero comic...possibly of all time. **** Bug, I think we just have very different tastes in what's funny. The only superhero comic that can pull off some legitimate laugh-out-louds for me these days is Brian Bendis' "Ultimate Spider-Man". I think some of the laughs there will stand the test of time in a way that Blue Beetle and Booster Gold's "bwa-ha-ha" stuff won't. If you're looking for light-hearted comics in the same vein as "JLI", have you tried "Young Justice"? I don't follow it because I try to generally avoid Peter David's writing, but it seems like he's approaching the comic with a light touch and character humor reminiscent of Giffen. Oh yeah, and anyone who knows DC continuity at a geek-level should get some good laughs out of the recent Elseworld's one-shot, "World's Funnest". Mr. Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite destroy all the different incarnations of the DC Universe, from the Silver Age to Dark Knight to Kingdom Come to the Super Friends, and a good time is had by all. Here's my favorite dialogue exchange: **** Superman:
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Even though I enjoyed then 80's Giffen and DeMattis league (there were some very funny moments, especially when Batman layed Gardner out with one punch)they are not even in the same League (sorry, pun intended)as the current JLA. The JLA's tagline is The World's Greatest Super Heroes. So, with a tagline like that the JLA should consist of those heroes which include Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, and The Martian Manhunter. I'm sorry, but the 80's league just doesn't come close to messuring up in power, style or grace. That league only had 2 of the Big Seven, The Martian Manhunter and Batman (who wasn't around for too long). Two heroes who are part of the group that consist of the next best seven, Black Canary and Captain Marvel started in that league but left very soon. Dr. Fate also left very soon. Hawkman showed up awhile later but also didn't stay long. All that was left were the secondary characters like Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Guy Gardner, Fire, Ice, and the rest.You can only do so much with a book full od second string leaguers. They had to have them keep bickering and taking on small threats, because if they went up against a large galactic or Earth shattering event, they would have had no chance. So, there should be absolutly no consideration given to doing the new JLA series with the 80's league. Maybe they could do 1 episode where they go to another dimension where the JLA is made up of the 80's version or have something happen in the time line where something happens to change history and the JLA changes into the 80's version. This would be alright for an episode or two.If you still believe that the 80's version is better yhan today's version, just look at the sales numbers. The 80's version never had great rankings and the current JLA is consistantly in the top 5 and is DC's best selling comic. So even if they choose not to go with The Big Seven (they should at the very least have 3 or 4 of them), they need to go with the heroes who are just below them such as Green Arrow (Ollie Queen), Black Canary, Hawkman and Hawkwoman, Captain Marvel, Firestorm, The Atom, Dr. Fate, Zatanna, and Black Lightning. They definitly need to stay away from the second rate heroes for current members, although having one show up every now and again wouldn't hurt anything. Sorry for ranting, but I think The World's Greatest Super Heroes should be just as they are advertised.
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You are totally wrong in thinking that the Authority could make mincemeat out of the JLA. Even though the Authority may do well at first, the JLA would regroup and execute a masterful plan designed by Batman and totally vanquish the Authority. The JLA would totally overpower them. Even though the JLA aren't vicious, they have rougues galleries that fit that bill and always manage to defeat them. I mean come on, is there a more twisted and evil person than The Joker? Superman has also killed in the past when it was absolutly neccesary in order to save lives. So he nor any other member of the JLA would do what ever it took to save the lives of their comrades. Hell, Batman could probably defeat them himself. If he could take down the JLA as easily his plans showed he could, he would have no problem taking down the Authority who are just JLA wannabes.
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Here is my choices:
-Superman
-Batman
-Wonder Woman
-Steel
-Green Lantern (Hal or Kyle)
-Flash
-Aquaman
-Atom
Then have various heroes make guest appearances. -
Nov 13, 2000 2:46:35 PM CST
JLA vs. The Authority - a geeky fan debate, but what the hell, I
by dave_f
Alright, let's take a moment and first recognize that these two teams come from wholly different worlds, so this question echoes the tongue-in-cheek Superman vs. Mighty Mouse debate from "Stand By Me". If Warren Ellis or Mark Millar wrote the story, the JLA would no doubt die of a variety of disembowelments, victims of their "fair play" code and lack of militaristic tactics. If a DC writer wrote the story (let's say Morrison, ironically a friend of Ellis and Millar), of course the JLA would trounce the Authority. Why? Because they ARE true blue heroes. They're the good guys, and in the DC Universe, that means they ALWAYS find a way. Simple but true. Personally, my heart's with the JLA. I finally picked up the first "Authority" trade to see what all the hubbub was about, and while entertaining, it was little more than a depthless "Watchmen" with heaped-on violence. Ellis had plenty of fascinating concepts to throw out, but he didn't seem interested in developing any of them. Given that the only remaining hooks for the comic are extreme violence and a nasty attitude, I'm not exactly compelled to seek out more issues. The art's pretty immaculate, but the team behind it just signed on to JLA, so I can get the best of both worlds - great art, and the idealistic heroes I prefer. Yep, JLA puts the beatdown on the Authority, and I wager their victory doesn't cost a single life either...
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Who has Heat Vision AND Shape changing abilities? Hmmmmmmmmm? The Martian Manhunter that's who! He's the traitor! Not Superman! You know it's true...
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I like the idea of sticking the JLI in to take over for the JLA for a two-parter.
Here's a story - the JLI is a separate group put together by Maxwell Lord with the standard cast, and the JLA is, shall we say, "surprised" to find them involved in a mission one day - and then that the JLI is suing them for corporate trademark infringement, or some such.
Also I like the idea of Maxwell Lord as a corporate yuppie come in to "clean them up a little." Maybe as a PR guy to clean up a mess Batman made when he was "fixing" something. A spin control man.
I also really liked all the responses! Not bad for splink's debut on aintitcool!
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Sorry, just trying for some continuity in my subject lines. Actually, your idea for a JLA/JLI two-parter is a fairly reasonable compromise. JLI fans will do back flips when they see the ol' gang, and everyone else should get a good laugh out of the proceedings. Under Paul Dini, who made Lobo funny and Mr. Mxyzptlk hilarious, the JLI could get an entertaining moment in the spotlight without threatening the more serious JLA that reigns in current fan popularity. And as previously mentioned, I do think Max Lord has potential as a recurring thorn in the League's side. Now if we can just agree to keep the Justice League Antarctica out of the picture, I think this could all work out...
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I didn't see anybody else mention this, but could Nightwing be the stand-in for Batman when he's too busy to help the JLA(which I imagine would be often)? It'd be nice to have a dark and haunted young guy on the team, since the Kyle Rayner GL on Superman was so easy going and not living in the shadow of Hal Jordan. Nightwing is a strong enough character in the comic books to rise above being just a sidekick. However, I don't know if the animation writing team would be interested in him. The writers on Gotham Knights didn't seem all that interested in him, I mean they wrote "Critters" instead of giving him another episode of development. Oh, BTW, the great thing about GL in the animated Superman was that they made Kyle Rayner a part of the Green Lantern Corps. None of this, he's-the-only-one junk. So we may get Guy Gardner AND Kyle Rayner at various times on this JLA show. Though personally I like Kyle better, especially since Flash was written as the cocky sonofabitch on Superman, and I'm assuming that would continue on this new JLA show. But damn this is great news! Finally a JLA show IS coming! I hope it doesn't go to the Boom channel instead. I don't get Boom, but they have all the cool stuff that used to be on Cartoon Network until I started getting it. Now it's just 24/7 of Scooby Doo and PowerPuff Girls with a marginal break for Toonami reruns(oh, and I find out they're showing Gotham Knights during the Batman time slot just as they replace it with Superman--fuck)! Somebody shoot the scheduling guy.
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I'd heard the Cartoon Network rumor last month, but I've yet to see any "official" word of preproduction on this rumored series. Someone on another site mentioned seeing something on Variety about a pilot definitely being greenlit, but I couldn't find that info anywhere. I'm just curious if or when we will hear anything else about this...
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I got 'er tonight as a matter of fact. (Anything with Dorkin's name gets me interested...) It's a hoot! I can't believe they got everyone to commit to it! If you want to watch everyone in the DCU die violently and creatively, check it out! "You're in heaven, and I'm Ceaser's Ghost, so you can SHUT UP now."
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I am now happy knowing that I have started a heated argument among posters.
First off, I've got to say to Cormorant that I think most of what you have said is on the money. Except for a few differences here and there, we are of a like mind when it comes to the league. The one big difference is that I believe The Authority would beat the League. Remember that i said the League SHOULD be able to beat the Authority, I didn't say they can. Plain and simple, The Authority is a killing machine, it's what they do. They are a somewhat militaristic force and in my opinion would surgically dissect the League. Not to say that the JLA wouldn't give them the biggest fight of their lives. I think that under Morrison's wing they have become a much smarter team than anyone out there, even the Authority. But the Authority kills and they are VERY good at it. Batman4Life makes some good points but seeing the latest issue of the Authority and realizing what the Doctor is capable of, I think the Authority would win. -
Secondly...Drath! I've been saying this forever about Nightwing but no one seems to listen! I think that, knowing his experience and his relationship with each member of the League, he would fit better on the team than Batman, who is at heart much more of a loner than Dick. Dick can actually be a team player. it really does make sense (to me). Of course his first obligation is to the Titans since they are his (2nd) surrogate family.
I think a large part of the argument here is whether we want the league to be a comedy show or not. Hell, the best Buffy episodes are the ones that are entirely comedy. But personally I think the team should be have a professional mentality instead of a bickering one. Not to say that no comedy should be injected, but I never found Giffen's League all that humorous (Barry Ween, now that's funny). Remember that lighthearted interacting does not always mean characterization. Cormorant made a good point when he pointed out what a flat character Guy Gardner actually was. IMHO, Morrison actually did a great amount of characterizing during his run (Waid's fillers helped with this too), you just had to look between the cracks. he gave believable reasons for Batman and Aquaman to be on the team, he made them have enjoy it.
Bottom line: I think that high concept action works best for the JLA. Sure large alien invasions don't happen in real life, but the chances of 7 powerful superheroes existing in one universe are just as great. Hell, the chance of 1 superhero existing at all is pretty near impossible. This is the DCU and this is the JLA, go with it. -
Has an animation company been chosen for this project yet? I work at Foundation Imaging (Star Trek: Voyager, Roughnecks: The Starship Troopers Chronicles, and Max Steel) and would absolutely love to do a 3D version of this show (been a dream of mine for awhile). What are your thoughts, would the show be better in 3D, or in traditional 2D animation?
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Okay, if we're going in the super serious direction, let me make these two wild-ass nominations:
Deadman - Boston Brandt, the coolest character DC ever created. Maybe the coolest character ever.
Captain Action - Actually a DC series in the 60s! Buy the action figure, read the comic. The stories were kind of wild and weird and tragic, as I recall.
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1. The cartoon should have the big guns from Morrison's JLA. My ramblings about Giffen/McGuire's JLA was merely a stroll down memory lane. Although an episode where the JLA disappears and J'onn gathers together that group would be a schweeeeet episode. Today's JLA would mop the floor with that group. Hell, Oracle could probably kick the shit out of them. I think those 80's stories are classics though and represent a cool alternative to the all powerful super group world threatening stories of today's JLA. It was a fun read. I wish DC would put some type of comic out that would bring that group together. 2. Guy Gardner may not have been the most well rounded character, but I loved to watch him piss off these iconic heroes, like Batman, Hawkman, Black Canary, and even that Big Red Cheese Captain Marvel. Every team needs a hothead. And Guy was it. But, it seems like fans either love him or hate him. Beau Smith (I think that's who it was) actually made Guy pretty interesting towards the end of his series before he got into the whole Warrior/Alien mess. 3. Cormorant just when I think I can't disagree with more, you go and mention the Suicide Squad and I feel all warm and fuzzy again. Ahh, Amanda Waller, Captain Boomerang, Bronze Tiger, Deadshot and all the rest. This comic was the absolute coolest of the cool. If any comic needed to be brought back from limbo, it's the Suicide Squad. 4. Funny books. I haven't read World's Funniest yet so I can't comment. But to me, the funniest mainstream comic out there right now is Peter David's Captain Marvel. Anyone missing this comic needs go get it and read it and laugh till you poop and then read it again on your way to the toilet. Cormy, I can call you Cormy, can't I? Probably not. But Cormy, surely you jest when you say that you stay away from Senior David's work. His Hulk issues were masterpeices until the bigwigs at Marvel screwed with it and pissed him off. Those issues had the right mixture of humor, action, and depth and he has transported it all over to Captain Marvel. Not the Big Red Cheese Captain MArvel, mind you, but the son of the Captain Marvel who died of cancer all those years ago. I think Peter David's writing on Young Justice is rather weak compared to his Marvel titles. I'm telling you, read Captain Marvel. OhwhatagooseIam!!!! hee. Finally 5. JLA vs. Authority. I have read a few issues of the Authority and I liked it the first time around....when it was called the Watchmen. JLA wins because they are the original heroes. The Authority is just a dark version of the JLA. Yes, the Authority would get down and dirty and wouldn't fight fair, but the JLA would prevail simply because they are the good guys and good guys always win, right? So let me take off my rose colored glasses and recap: JLA big guns for the cartoon. Bring back Giffen/McGuire's group in a miniseries of some kind in comic form. Guy Gardner, still the shit! Suicide Squad, where for art thou, Suicide Squad??? Marvel's Captain Marvel, trouser fillin' funny. Authority's glutes kicked in by JLA, film at 11. I hope we all learned something here today. Bug out.
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Nov 13, 2000 10:16:08 PM CST
Ambush Bug screams "AWW MAN WHY"S MY POST AT THE TOP OF THE TALK
by ambush bug
AWWW MAN WHY"S MY POST AT THE TOP OF THE TALKBACK!!! I hate it when the posts are out of order. Harry, your out of order. I'm out of order. This whole post is out of order!!!!!
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I'm so embarrassed. I spelled you're wrong. Sorry I was all aflustered. hee
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Nothing against your company (I actually really like the Roughnecks series), but I'd love to see the JLA series continue with the designs used in Superman and the Batman revamp up through Batman Beyond. I love Bruce Timm's designs. In fact, they've been a major influence on my own artwork majorly changing the way I draw many of my human characters. (Bruce Timm, J. Scott Campbell (when he actually draws) and Frank Cho are my main artistic heroes, so that's where I'm comin' from.)
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I was thinking about J'onn J'onnz too, but there are a few strange elements upon a second viewing turned me away from it. For starters: All the fire that was going around during the end of the final episode. Granted, the whole idea of 'JLA signals' being telepathic messages occured to me too by the end. Other theories I have come up with: Eradicator. Perhaps they are going along the lines that a kryptonian force is altering Clark's mind (if you notice, the looks of his newer costume seems a little more Kryptonian-like). Anyway, whoever it is, they are making sure the credits aren't giving a thing away, as only the characters in this half appeared the the closing credits (I was hoping since this was a 2parter, they'd put a combined credits at the end.)
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Random notes
(1) We need a Doom Patrol movie. Right Now. Immediately. Who knows how long any of us has?
(2) Second, another teamup I'd like to see: the JLA and...
...
...
...
...
the Inferior 5! -
I forgot to include this in the last post.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/8178/aaporta8.html
Cool Inferior 5 page. -
Yeah, yeah, I KNOW Truman wrote the "Hawkworld" miniseries, gol' dang it! I wasn't crediting Ostrander with originating the concept, but acknowledging him for his defining take on it. And it WAS defining, using Truman's excellent miniseries as a jumping-off point to take Hawkman and Hawkwoman's adventures to Earth and expand their potential. In the big picture, Ostrander's characterization was superior to Truman's, notably in the case of Shayera. I'm not discrediting Truman - the "Hawkworld" miniseries is amazing work, probably his career high point - but he had three issues to work with and Ostrander had over thirty. Now the art on Ostrander's monthly was rarely better than adequate, so Truman wins the prize for best visuals hands-down. But hey, there was a cool "best of both worlds" scenario when Truman teamed with Ostrander for the last few issues of the title. Can't believe you'd dare to call the series a piece of crap when it represented the only interesting monthly Hawkman...well, ever, right? Ostrander wrote that comic with the same eye for character and fierce imagination that infused "Suicide Squad". It even had thematic depth as Katar, played as a "stranger in a strange land" alien, struggled to come to terms with American idealism vs. American reality. It was a bold take, and the thematic payoff came when Hawkman found himself leading a revolution on his home planet of Thanagar. How often do superhero comics pull off such daring character evolution? Most superhero writers are content to maintain the status quo and worship at the false idol of continuity. Ostrander challenged that cowardice and created real depth and real change during his run. I even seem to recall Ostrander working his ass off to meld "Hawkworld" with DC's classic continuity, coming up with some pretty clever explanations. But in the end, I couldn't give a shit about continuity if it leads people away from great writing. Fuck continuity. I'm sure some Joe Hack writer can write a lovely, flat Hawkman story with all the ties to the Golden Age Hawkman and the Justice Society in place...and it'll never be half as interesting as what Truman and Ostrander did with the character.
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Even though Nightwing is more open-minded than Batman, he is not all that different from him. The other Titans are always on his case about being too much like Batman. Plus, he likes to take control of the situation just like Batman. Nightwing is one of my favorite characters, but he and Batman are not like night and day. They are in fact just different sides of the same coin. There are only slight differences between them.
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I also favor the animation style used in Batman and Superman. It would be a perfect fit for the new show.
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According to the lady who runs Golden archieves a wonderful fan-fic site [and I'm not just saying that because she has a bus load of my stuff posted there, All right perhaps I am?} Batman Beyonf is called Batman future. Now about the last eposode, I will go out on a termite infested limb here and predict that the black glad Superman we met is a phony and that the one true superman is Warhawk. My reasons are the following, he was the only member of the JLU to never unmask, he performed some remarkable feats of future strenght. Bruce would not take the hand of the first supermn, the black costumed superman was way to friendly to Bruce. Bruce all ready had his suspestions about this superman. I think Lois is dead and the real superman has been gone for years {Like KC} and as returned as warhawk to check out this new superman.
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From what I remember, the rights to utilize WW in animation are not in the hands of WB due to the unproduced 1980s television series and toy line [Mattel] for Wonder Woman and the Star Riders. [There's a site for the toys: http://users.aol.com/sarahdyer/starriders/wwstar.htm]. And I have asked Paul Dini at a few Oakland Wondercons about her potential inclusion in the animated world, and have never gotten the clearest answer from him. I feel that Big Barda is a poor substitute. As many of you may know, there has been a WW maquette done in Bruce Timm, B:TAS style in the WB Studio Stores AND a lot of use of that design for Subway kids' meals and Kraft products. Anyone know more?...
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Wizard had article on the original proposed JLA toon a lllooonnnggg while back. It had some wackiness indeed; such as the above mentioned Jon Stewart GL, Aquaman (Pick up a current ish of JLA. Fishboy is no longer the joke he once was. Hell, just catch him on the Supes Toon. He's the resident super-bastard of the DCU, well maybe after Bats), Orion, and couple of other wacky guys. I'm assuming that they're going the more traditional route and keep it in tune with the current line-up. After all, JLA is DC's flagship title and if DC wants to bring in more readers...
A JLA CARTOON IS THE SMARTEST THING ON EARTH! Keeping the core members will attract new readers who want to check out the comic. And as we know, almost all the JLA'ers have their own titles (Cept poor Aquaman, Plastic Man, and my boy The Atom).
Oh, a final thought... A twenty-two minute cartoon featuring a core team of seven or eight members is more than possible...
They manage a twenty-two page comic every month. Hopefully they'll bring in Messers Waid, Millar, and Morrison to pen a few scripts!
And please, don't leave Plastic Man outta the frey! -
That's right you heard me Young Justice. YJ rocks people, and the JLA sux. Why not just scrap this whole thing and make the cartoon YJ with guest appearances by Batman (he's the only good thing the JLA has going for it, cuz ya know, superman's a pussy) would you much rather see Robin, Superbor, Impulse (that's me), Wondergirl, Secret, Empress,Red Tornado, Arrowette, and maybe even Lil' Lobo. Tell me that's not gold, scratch that. . . tell me that's not platinum. Let Bruce (wayne) Timm (drake) handle that along with Peter David as one of the producers.
Impulse has left the building . . . at lightning fast speed. -
That's right you heard me Young Justice. YJ rocks people, and the JLA sux. Why not just scrap this whole thing and make the cartoon YJ with guest appearances by Batman (he's the only good thing the JLA has going for it, cuz ya know, superman's a pussy) would you much rather see Robin, Superbor, Impulse (that's me), Wondergirl, Secret, Empress,Red Tornado, Arrowette, and maybe even Lil' Lobo. Tell me that's not gold, scratch that. . . tell me that's not platinum. Let Bruce (wayne) Timm (drake) handle that along with Peter David as one of the producers.
Impulse has left the building . . . at lightning fast speed. -
I totally didn't see it coming! STARRO BABY!! The star conqurer taking command of the Justice League, God that brings back memories. I told you I was a comic book geek.
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I think you're over simplifying Nightwing to say he's only slightly different from Batman. It's true that his is a love/hate relationship with batman, not unlike a father and son who are more alike than they want to admit. But they are still very destinguishable characters and they would be very different on a JLA show. Nightwing lives in Batman's shadow. He doesn't want to become cold like his mentor, but at the same time he can't help being like the man who taught and raised him. Batman makes no apologies for his ruthless tactics, while Nightwing does. He tries for that social grace Batman just skips. Sure the Titans bug Nightwing when they think he's being too much like Batman, but it bothers him much more than such badgering would bother Batman himself. Don't forget that Grayson's keeping his identity from most of them is more about Batman's need for secrecy than his own. And frankly, those Titans are a bunch of whiners. All he has to do is ask a question out of suspicion and they charge him with being Mr. Untrusting like Batman. God forbid one of the Titans being smart.
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Alrighty, a lot of junk to get out here. EVERY ONE, go to http://xmenevolution.homestead.com/Justice_League.html to read the original pitch designed by the WB animation team just prior to the Superman animated series. Their original roster had six main players: Superman, Aquaman, Flash, John Stewart Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and Orion. Other members, who would appear later, were to be: Dr. Fate, Lightray, Vixen, a different-looking Supergirl, Nightshade, The Question, Mr. Miracle, Black Canary, Green Arrow, Black Lightening, Hawkman and Hawkgirl. Now to be honest, this isn't how they'll probably go now. For one thing they used Kyle Rayner for Green Lantern on Superman, and I think he would work much better than John Stewart. What's more, someone(I think Alan Burnette) says in the article that the Flash they used was probably the Wally West Flash. Thus, he and Kyle Rayner are set to go(and they'd play off each other very well just as they were written for their Superman guest shots).****Now Orion is obviously the bad ass that Warhawk was on the Batman Beyond JLU. But frankly, I'd use Martian Manhunter or Batman first. They also said no Batman because he had his own show. Since he doesn't right now, maybe he'd put in a few appearances. I don't know if they would/should use Orion, but since the Kirby New Gods stuff MUST be on JLA sometime, it wouldn't hurt to use him regularly.****I don't think that the main three of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman should only get cameos as others here have intimated. For one thing, as I think Cormorant was saying, the main allure of JLA is to have team ups of our favorite characters. Stuff like Dr. Fate, Zatanna, and Etrigan team up against Klarion, Morgan Le Fay, and/or Ra's Al Ghul for one episode! Or Flash and Green Lantern try to get along while they stop Dr. Polaris! Wonder Woman and Big Barda have a run in with a jealous Maxima! Actually, I expect many JLA episodes to work a lot like that animated episdoe "Girls Night Out," where Supergirl and Batgirl fought Harley Quinn, Livewire, and Poison Ivy. But since Wonder Woman hasn't had her own show as Superman and Batman have, she should be featured way more than a few crappy cameos. I'd even give her several episodes all to herself(and then there'd be the event-sized five or more part mini-series like GI Joe and the "Revenge of Cobra," or "Pyramid of Darkness," or "Arise, Serpentor, Arise" and so on).****Also, let's not forget that there's a lot that wasn't done on Superman. He was supposed to live in disgrace following his betrayal of Earth in "Legacy," but that outing became the show's swan song instead of a new beginning. The animation team never got to Superboy after designing and voice-casting a great teenaged Clark Kent and everything! They brought in Steel without the infamous Death of Superman(a storyline Dini swore he wouldn't do), so they could have brought in Kon-El and Cadmus as well. All that could finally get its due attention on JLA. But that'll only happen if Superman is more than just a bit player.****And while Batman was almost done to death(Critters was scraping the bottom of the barrel) Barbara Gordon could/should be brought in as Oracle. Remember, on Batman Beyond Commissioner Babs Gordon mentioned "you sewed up the bullet holes, Bruce" while looking at her old costume, suggesting she ended her time as Batgirl after some serious wounds--maybe even the shots she took that crippled her in the comics. Sure she's not in a wheel chair on BB, but medical science may have progressed enough to fix that. And then there's Robin, who should be made into the intelligent character Tim Drak really is instead of the annoyingly dumb punk Jason Todd was. And then Nightwing's struggle to escape the curse and shadow of Batman remains unsatisfied by his two shows on Gotham Knights. I remember Robin mentioning how Batgirl and Nightwing had gone to find Ra's Al Ghul in Batman's absence. Now THAT'S what I wanted to see, especially with her sleeping with Batman after Nightwing left and all. And then of coure, there's the great Tower of Babel plot line just recently in the comics where Batman's countermeasures are stolen and used by Ra's Al Ghul against the JLA members. All great stuff that deserves to be used on a JLA show, and all of it would require Batman's presence, even if he is only a partial member of the team.****Finally, I agree with the sentiment that the main roster should include the big seven of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, Green Lantern, and Aquaman. Many other characters should come in during a season long arch, not unlike the slightly episodic arch going on right now on the superb X-Men Evolution. But that core seven should be the main roster with certain character sets being showcased for whole episodes. I guess Orion could occupy Batman's place if need be, but Batman should still be there in some copacity. Oh, and there should be a return to classic JLA villains like that cool BLACK MANTA instead of the generic super menace of the month stints of today. Phew. That's a lot of stuff to get off my chest. Too bad this story is older than Mr. Burns now.
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You made some good points. However, I still say that Nightwing and Batman are more alike than you think. Even though Nightwing tries to be different than Batman, when it comes right down to it he reacts just like Batman. He studies the situation, developes a plan, and then takes out the threat. Nightwing's detective skills are second to only Batman. He is in perfect physical condition, just like Batman. He believes that being prepared and having a plan in motion is key to taking any foe down, just like Batman. Both men saw their parents die right in front of them. Plus let's not forgetthat Batman is older than Nightwing, so he has had more time to become more cynical and jaded than Nightwing. Whose to say that over time Nightwing won't become more grim himself. Also Nightwing has been groomed to become Batman, which he wants to happen one day.Batman instills fear in criminals through intimidation. Nightwing is also more than capable of doing this, because he learned from the best.
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I just read on scifi.com that the regular cast will consist of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, and Hawkgirl. Aquaman is scheduled to appear in an early episode, but is not going to be a regular cast member. They will probably have him pop up from time to time. I guess thye decided to go with Hawkgirl instead of Aquaman help balance out the male and female members of the group. However, they should have just went with Aquaman and added her as well. I mean does it matter if there is 7 or 8 members.
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