Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with a nice little chat I did last week with actors Jake Johnson and Steve Berg who were in town for big Alamo screening of the newest Joe Swanberg joint called Digging For Fire.
In the film Johnson plays a new dad who is housesitting with his wife and son. While messing around in the backyard he finds what could possibly be a human bone and an old, rusty revolver. He's compelled to keep digging and takes the excuse to do so when his wife and child go to visit her parents and he's left all alone.
A group of friends come over for a dinner party and they each have an influence on his decision to keep digging into matters that shouldn't concern him. Berg plays one of those friends.
Pretty good indie premise, no? I got to talk with Jake Johnson and Steve Berg about working with Joe Swanberg, sharing the screen with Joe's scene-stealing toddler Jude and, strangely enough, Austin BBQ. Sorry it kinda all kinda turns into a cooked meats conversation there at the end, but that's how the thing actually went down!
Lots of good stuff in here, especially some nice tidbits about Swanberg's next film, Win It All, which sounds like he challenged himself to make a more traditional film. Curious to see how that one turns out. Anyway, here's the chat. Enjoy!
Quint: Jake, I don't know if you'd remember, but I met you on the set of Jurassic World.
Jake Johnson: Yeah, I do. I know you on Twitter as well.
Quint: Oh, yeah?
Steve Berg: I'm a fan of Ain't It Cool News as well!
Quint: Well, I'm a fan of the movie, so this is working out well!
Jake Johnson: This is a good threesome.
Steve Berg: Let's get out of here.
Quint: (laughs) “Hey, so... what're you doing right now?”
Jake Johnson: What you don't realize is that as this one goes there's a chance we might be throwing grades (out). But it's never about you. (Steve and I) have been friends for 12 years and we love talking shit, so we are grading each other's ability to do press.
Steve Berg: I started out rocky.
Jake Johnson: But he's getting it. This is his first press tour. He's getting better and better, but I'm a tough coach.
Quint: So, you're saying you're kind of like Steve Carell in Foxcatcher.
Jake Johnson: Yes! Including the weird sex stuff.
Quint: You got a statue of an eagle you carry around with you...
Jake Johnson: Yes, and I want to wrestle with him. That's it. I'm not “the tough coach” anymore. From now on I'm Steve Carell from Foxcatcher.
Steve Berg: I haven't seen the movie!
Jake Johnson: Oh, dude. I love that movie.
Steve Berg: Really? I have to see it!
Jake Johnson: It's so weird!
Quint: It sneaks up on you, that one.
Jake Johnson: Steve Carell, even though he does comedy, I always knew was an actor. Certain guys who do comedy you go “They're just really funny” and other guys you know if they wanted to do the hard work and commit they could act their ass off. I didn't realize Channing (Tatum) could act his ass off, but he's excellent in it. And Ruffalo's obviously Ruffalo.
But that movie's really special. First off, the movie's awesome, the story's really great and I was like “these guys are fuckin' gunnin', man!”
Quint: The publicists might not like it, but we can keep talking about Foxcatcher if you want...
Jake Johnson: I've been talking about Digging For Fire for eight straight day, dude! I got more to say about that besides the same “Well, I found a gun and a bone...” (laughs)
Quint: “So how much was improv'd...” No, I've seen enough Joe Swanberg Q&As at SXSW over the years that I already know the answer to that question.
Jake Johnson: (laughs) You know the Swanberg motto! What I will tell, which is interesting... interesting to me, at least... So, Joe and I made another movie this past summer called Win It All, which was the first Swanberg movie that we did in a different way. We had an 80-85 page script and every scene was written.
When the actors would come in we'd talk out the scene, the way Joe does with his movies, but we'd also say “Rather than just talking out the scene and seeing what happens, here's what wrote out. Now let's read that out loud, now let's forget it and let's morph the two. Let's bring in a little magic, bring in the script, but here's what we have to cover.” We blocked it out before the actor's came because every (character's) story is built like a more traditional three-act structured movie.
That was a neat one after Digging For Fire, which I loved doing and I loved being a part of. Joe and I kind of comedically challenged each other. He said, “You're starting to just play the same kind of characters in my movies.” I said, “Well, it's really enjoyable!” I like it! Honestly, I don't need to work all the time, so if I'm going to do it I want to have fun.
He was like, “Well, I'm going to challenge you to play more of a character.” I was like, “Then I'm going to challenge you to get more coverage and shoot this like a traditional movie.” We finished shooting it and we were both like, “We loved this one!”
So going back to Digging, which is fun to talk about... we just shot one that is 180 degrees different that we can't wait to show. I wish I could show them both the same night. Look at this weird experiment we're doing!
Steve Berg: It'd be a good double feature!
Quint: Interesting. One of the very lucky things I got to do in the early days of Ain't It Cool was visit a Robert Altman set.
Steve Berg: Prairie Home?
Quint: No, it was called The Company.
Steve Berg: I love The Company. Great film!
Jake Johnson: That's really cool.
Quint: The reason I bring it up is you talking about finding that sweet spot between filmic and realism reminded me of watching Altman work. He had two cameras always running on a scene, one capturing the scripted interaction between Malcolm McDowell and Neve Campbell and the other was always floating around the room, grabbing reactions from the background dancers. It sounds like this new project was a step towards that realm of filmmaking.
Jake Johnson: On the new one, what was fun was that everything was tighter, everything was scripted, but it was still a Swanberg movie. On Digging we all named our characters and created our own backstories. On the new one we said, “This is your character, this is the backstory, but now... if you got any magic in you right at the moment, we want that, too.”
Quint: You got to invent your own characters for Digging? What'd you end up choosing, Steve?
Steve Berg: You know, I viewed it sorta similar to real life because Jake and I are really old friends. We moved to LA around the same time and started improv together. So, I tweaked that a little bit. I'm an old friend. We haven't seen each other for a while. He's got a kid and a wife and wow, what a great opportunity to hang out and have some beers in this awesome house that none of us would live in. We'd all be in small apartments...
Quint: Yeah, with two or three roommates, probably.
Steve Berg: Yeah! So this is like an awesome vacation for me. I'm in... to a certain point. Then at another point in the movie I'm out. It's getting too weird and you've crossed a line.
Jake Johnson: (nods) A+. (to me) Great set up.
Quint: I'll take a little credit for that, sure.
Steve Berg: I raised my game because it's Ain't It Cool. I'm a fan!
Quint: One of the most interesting aspects of Digging For Fire is seeing the different flavors each person brings to the movie as they come in. Obviously a lot of you guys know each other, so you know generally what kinds of personalities are coming into a scene, but you can never be sure what's going to happen on the day, I'd imagine. Is that something that's stressful as an actor or is it freeing to be able to rely on instinct like that?
Jake Johnson: In terms of knowing each other, we kinda knew each other. Steve was really the only guy I knew. People will talk about this group as being like this whole theater troupe. I never see these people! I see this person (points to Steve)!
With Sam (Rockwell), we met him in a bar, talked it out and he said “I'm in.” So when he shows up on set we had no idea what he'd do. I had met Mike Birbiglia doing Paper Heart. I'm fans of them. I like these guys. Brie Larson I'd met when we did 21 Jump Street... we had dinner a couple of times, but everybody coming in was a little stressful on this one because there were so many different actors and everybody was really talented and everybody was really smart, so nobody was coming in saying “yeah, whatever.” We had an entire movie of gunners. Everybody was a home run hitter.
Sam's character was the wild card from the past and he was morphing into the devil on my shoulder. Steve is definitely the grounded friend. Birbiglia is turning into the angel. We didn't know it was going to be so much the devil and the angel, but it just is. Then they started going at each other. None of that was scripted.
We were building towards this central idea that people would start falling off as my character goes deeper looking for the body, Sam's character is going to push-push-push and when it's just he and I he's going to basically say “Now there's girls and cocaine, so I don't care about your stupid digging anymore.” And I would be like, “Aw, please, man! Just play fort with me!” That's when it's the break where I'm not this guy. I just want to have a goofy adventure and he wants to have sex with a bunch of chicks and blow coke, so you have that break.
But as it started, I'm looking at these guys... what Sam is doing, what Rosemarie DeWitt is doing, what Orlando Bloom did... it's all new. It's really exciting, but it's also stressful because Joe always wants to capture that magic in the moment, so you're just kinda caught in it.
Quint: It's interesting you mention Rockwell being the devil on your shoulder. I thought the tension in the movie was going to come from you digging in the backyard and finding something you maybe shouldn't have, but I found that Rockwell's character made me nervous every time he was on screen. It's like he is the gun.
Jake Johnson: That's right, 100%.
Steve Berg: He's going to do something.
Jake Johnson: Yes, until you literally have to peel him out of the house in order to go back to the body.
Steve Berg: There is a moment when you first see him where he walks up, stops, puts his foot up, takes a cigarette out of his sock and that to me made me go, “This guy is crazy! Who puts their cigarettes in their sock!?!”
Jake Johnson: In terms of this process and what Sam brought to the table... So, Joe is very naturalistic. He likes everything grounded in reality. He said to Sam there, “This is just your character's entrance. What I'm going to need you to do is walk up the driveway normal, then walk up to the side of the house. I have this beautiful shot planned, I already know the music we're going to play, it's going to have that kind of rock feeling as the night gets going. So, just walk up.”
Sam did not tell him he was going to spin and put his leg up. He did not tell him about the cigarette. All that stuff Sam had created. Joe would be like, “Great, now do one without it” and Sam said, “No, this is how I'm walking up.” This is the energy he brings to the movie. By the time you're in a scene with him he's already made a bunch of choices.
Quint: Speaking of bringing a lot to the table, I almost want to commend your bravery for agreeing to do this movie knowing you were going to have to spend so much of the first act sharing scenes with Jude Swanberg.
Jake Johnson: (laughs) I know!
Quint: He's like a professional scene-stealer. He stole Happy Christmas and he's even better here.
Jake Johnson: I agree! Jude is not being raised to be a child actor. He's a little boy that we're shooting...
Quint: With a camera! I want to be clear...
Jake Johnson: (laughs) We're shooting him with a BB in the thigh saying “Act, boy! Act!” But while we're shooting scenes there'll be a moment where as his dad I'll be like, “Hey, you want some ice cream, bud?” He will look at Joe and during the scene he'll go, “I can get ice cream with Jake, daddy?” And you gotta say, “Alright, we're going to do it again. Remember you have to answer me. You don't have to say “dad,” just say “yeah,” and we'll be done.” So, I'll say “Want to get ice cream?” and he'll look at his dad off camera, smile and say, “Yeaaaahhhh...”
But Joe never wants to break him from that, though. He's just a kid and if he doesn't want to act in a scene... There have been times when we're shooting something and he's supposed to be there and he's like “I don't want to.” Joe will be like, “Please. Remember this morning when you said you wanted to?” “Yeah, but I don't wanna.” Joe'll be like, “Alright, Jude's out of the scene.” (laughs)
Steve Berg: That's the way to do it, though.
Jake Johnson: That's how you capture a little kid without affecting his childhood. There'll be a day when Jude's like, “I don't want to do it anymore” and then he's done.
Steve Berg: He's not a kid-acting robot!
Quint: Are you going to take that lesson into your future projects? “Remember when you said this morning, Jake, that you wanted to do this...”
Jake Johnson: I gotta tell you, man... I already kind of am. (laughs) That's why Joe goes, “Hey, man. You need play a character in the next one because you're just turning into a 40 year old Jude.”
Steve Berg: “We got pizza, Jake!”
Jake Johnson: “You wanna do this?” “Naw, I'm out. I'm doing a TV show, that's enough for me!” I don't want to be a 5 year old boy actor, but it's going in that direction.
Quint: So, what's next for both of you guys?
Jake Johnson: We shot the next Swanberg one and I don't go back to The New Girl until mid-October, so I'm just spending time with family.
Steve Berg: I shot a pilot that actually takes place in Austin.
Quint: Nice!
Steve Berg: I'm also on a show called Idiotsitter on Comedy Central.
Jake Johnson: And he's also in Win It All.
Quint: What's the pilot that takes place in Austin?
Steve Berg: Ummm...
Jake Johnson: He shouldn't talk about it.
Steve Berg: Yeah, I can't really talk about it yet, unfortunately.
Quint: The real important question is does it involve BBQ and/or Tex-Mex?
Steve Berg: It involves my character eating both. (laughs) That's actually true!
Jake Johnson: Is it true? (laughs)
Quint: There you go, you've already accurately captured Austin, then.
Jake Johnson: So, I got a question for you. On your Twitter, what's that drawing. Is that your face?
Quint: No, I'm not quite as handsome as that guy. No, it's Robert Shaw from Jaws. He plays Quint, which is what I took for my nickname on the site.
Jake Johnson: Oh, that's interesting. I've always seen it small.
Quint: That was an original sketch that a guy named Tyler Stout did for me a few years back. He's one of Mondo's biggest artists. I took him out to BBQ when he came through town back then and he asked for my address. A week later he sent me that sketch, which has a place of honor on my wall.
Steve Berg: Taking people to BBQ will take you a long way. It will curry many favors!
Quint: Especially if it's The Salt Lick because it's kind of a mini-adventure. It's way outside of town, in the boonies and they deliver you a neverending plate of ribs, sausage and brisket.
Jake Johnson: So, we're done here at about 11 and we're don't have to be back until the screening tonight. We've been talking about getting BBQ and we haven't done it. Do you think Salt Lick's the move?
Quint: I'd say you want to hit Franklin, but you've already missed your window there. You would have had to have been in line two hours ago to get food.
Jake Johnson: I've done Stubbs when I was here for South By...
Quint: Stubbs is mediocre. Ironworks is close and it's okay, but if you want to try something central I'd try to check out LA BBQ. It's a food truck, it's almost as good as Franklin but doesn't have the crazy line.
Jake Johnson: But if we can do the drive, you think Salt Lick?
Steve Berg: Can we get in?
Quint: On a Friday at noon? Yeah, sure.
Steve Berg: Sold!
Quint: Make sure to get family style, that's the neverending plate of meat option.
Steve Berg: Is there a world where I can get family style just for myself and he can get whatever he wants?
Quint: Yeah, if you don't want to share with Jake, you can do that.
Steve Berg: I don't want to share anything with him. I don't want you eating off my plate! You'll go, “I'm just going to have the dinner salad,” and then you'll eat all my ribs!
Jake Johnson: (laughs) I'm not your wife! That's never happened!
Quint: Also make sure to order some burnt ends.
Jake Johnson: That's great. Yeah, the crispy things, for sure.
Steve Berg: Good Lord. I'm dying right now!
Jake Johnson: I think that's our move!
Steve Berg: Thank you!
Jake Johnson: It was good seeing you again, buddy.
Steve Berg: Yeah, it was good to meet you, man!
Quint: It was good seeing you guys, too. Enjoy your meat!
Steve Berg: I will!
That's it. Hope you guys enjoyed it (and learned a little something about Texas BBQ!). Digging For Fire is currently on VOD and enjoying a limited theatrical run. Thanks to Jake and Steve for being such good chatters and to Josh Reeder for setting it all up!
-Eric Vespe
”Quint”
quint@aintitcool.com
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