I was going to wax poetic about the long and storied career of filmmaker Joe Dante, but really all I should have to do is give you the extensive list of his film and television credits to justify why statues of the man should be mounted outside of every movie theater in America. Several generations of film lovers owe the man an eternal debt of gratitude for keep genre films interesting and subversive for a few decades. He learned from and worked for the best (everyone from Roger Corman to Steven Spielberg) and climbed his way up the movie-making ladder, stopping to cut trailers, edit works like GRAND THEFT AUTO, and directing classics like PIRANHA, THE HOWLING, GREMLINS 1 & 2, INNERSPACE, MATINEE, SMALL SOLDIERS, and more recently THE HOLE and his latest, the zom-rom-com BURYING THE EX.
Dante made the small screen seem a little bit bigger, helming episodes of “Police Squad!,” “Amazing Stories,” “Masters of Horror,” and in recent years, everything from “Hawaii Five-0” to “Salem.” If the film gods are shining on us, he may yet get a chance to direct his passion project, THE MAN WITH KALEIDOSCOPE EYES, a feature about the strait-laced movie maker Corman making his groundbreaking 1967 film THE TRIP about the world of LSD takers, which starred Dennis Hopper, Peter Fonda, and Jack Nicholson. Hell, I’d throw money into that if Dante went the crowd-funding route.
But the primary reason for my recent chat with Dante was BURYING THE EX, starring Anton Yelchin as a young horror aficionado who makes the mistake of moving in with a girlfriend (Ashley Greene) whom he doesn’t really love, just to make her happy. The problem is made all the worse when she dies and comes back as a zombie, who seems even more clingy than when she was alive. To make matters worse, Yelchin meets another good-looking lady (Alexandra Daddario), and would much rather date her than his dead girlfriend. If I had a nickel…
Horror comedy seems right up Dante’s alley, and we talked at length about striking the right balance to make a film like BURYING THE EX (which is out on VOD now, and may even pop up in a few theaters, if you're lucky) funny and scary. We also dive into the many eras of his epic career. This is my first chat with Dante, and he was an absolute blast to interview. Please enjoy my talk with Joe Dante…
Joe Dante: Hi, Steve.
Capone: Hi Joe, how are you?
JD: Fine. How are you?
Capone: Good. It’s great to finally get to talk to you. I think the last time you were in Chicago with one of your TRAILERS FROM HELL shows, I was doing something else that night, and I was really bummed I couldn’t make it. So I’m glad we could finally do this. Since zombies have saturated the marketplace right now, when you decide to take on a story with zombies, is it important to you to set out to make yours a little different? And what were some of the things you did to make that happen?
JD: The genre has had its ups and downs, and now it’s having its ups. When I was a kid, zombie movies were the lowest rung of the horror movie ladder. Except for I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE and maybe WHITE ZOMBIE, there weren’t many “good” zombie movies, and it really took NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD to pull the zombie movie out of the Caribbean, for one thing. And it wasn’t just the success of that movie, which was not initially a success, it was when the Italians started copying it and making their zombie movies—with the gore and the cannibals and all that stuff—that the genre started to have a higher profile in terms of there were just more of them.
But then in recent years with “The Walking Dead” and WORLD WAR Z, the zombie movie has actually supplanted the vampire world, which is kind of remarkable. I can only attest that it is probably because people can relate more to the idea of dead people, because anyone can be a dead person, than a werewolf or a vampire, which are basically European myths that have been handed down. It’s like the go-to genre now. You want to make a comedy? Put a zombie in it. Want to make a Western? Put a zombie in it.
None of that had actually come to pass when Alan Trezza, who wrote this script, made the short film that this is based on, which I have not seen. We’ve been trying to get this thing together since 2008. It took a while. The way the business is today, you have to find the financing, and it usually doesn’t come from any one source, and sometimes one piece of the financing will drop out, and then the whole thing falls apart again, and you have to start over. And it’s also difficult to attract cast if you don’t have actual money. So over the years, we had various false alarms and starts. Meanwhile, while we were doing that, a couple of similar movies with similar plots were being made, but even that didn’t stop us. So finally we managed to cull it together in 20 days here in LA, which is fairly remarkable, because nobody makes movies here anymore, and get a terrific cast. To me, the movie is the cast. If the movie works, it’s because of them.
Capone: Did the fact that zombies have now come back into favor with such a force, did that help eventually, waiting a few more years for financing?
JD: I think waiting until WORLD WAR Z came out probably got the picture made, because I think it probably wouldn’t have gotten financed except that that picture was such an unexpected success. It was very roundly drubbed before it was released. “Oh, it’s in trouble. It’s going to be a flop.” And of course, it wasn’t. It also was a pretty good picture. So suddenly it was like, “Oh, okay. Zombies have arrived. Now it’s okay to spend money on them.”
Capone: You mentioned shooting in LA. I feel like this is a uniquely LA story, too. Everything from the jobs that the characters have to…I assume that’s the real Hollywood Forever Cemetery film. Was that something that was important to you?
JD: Absolutely. At one point in its gestation, the producers said, “If we make this picture in New Orleans, we could make it for cheap.” And I said, “I just don't think that’s going to work.” There’s a vibe to this movie that’s a particular LA millennial vibe, and it really doesn’t work a lot of other places. It’s a portrait of a certain strata of culture in LA that frankly doesn't often get movies made about it. I felt it was really important to keep it in LA, and I think that’s the heart of the movie that it’s an LA movie.
Capone: Some of the funniest stuff in the film involves making Ashley Green’s character, once she dies, a thinking, feeling, talking zombie—we begin to realize that this is a metaphor for the clingy ex- who won’t go away. Obviously, most zombie movies are metaphors for something about our society, as all good science fiction is, but talk about that element of it.
JD: The whole thing about her character is that as overbearing as she is, she’s still beautiful, and she’s still sympathetic in a way. In the second half of the movie, even though she’s all hopped up on zombie sex, she just can’t understand why he’s resisting her. Just because she’s dead? That’s not a good reason. “Why don’t you want to go to bed with me? Come on. That’s just one of my many attributes. I’m dead.” And finally at the very end of the movie when she has to confront the fact that they can’t be together, it’s actually kind of poignant, because I think she’s very good at it. And she’s so attractive that even as a zombie she’s still attractive.
Capone: Was making her appealing even after becoming a zombie a challenge?
JD: It was a definite thought, because we didn’t shoot it in sequence, so every time we did a scene, it was like a different stage of decomposition, and you don't want to make her so horrible and gross that she’s not attractive. And with Ashley, her bone structure is such that you’d literally have to take off her nose or something to make her unattractive.
Capone: When you first saw this script, since you never saw the short film, do you remember aspects of it that you latched on to as a filmmaker and said, “Yeah, I can do something with this. I can work with this.”
JD: When I get a script, if I don’t relate to it, then I usually don’t want to do it. I’ve never made a movie that I wouldn’t go see. I just thought this would be a fun movie to make, and I could definitely bring something to, and it had a background where it would be easy to put a lot of references to old horror movies, which is something that I can do in my sleep [laughs]. And so there are a lot of clips, and it’s germane to the story, because that’s who he is.
Capone: That’s one of the most interesting things about the film—Anton and Alexandra’s lifestyles are so good together. I don’t know a guy that likes horror movies that doesn't one day hope to meet a woman that not only can handle watching them, but has the vast knowledge that she does in this film.
JD: I know, and it puts the movie firmly in the realm of science fiction [laughs].
Capone: Those women do not exist. You have to create them in a lab.
JD: But it’s a great wishful-fulfillment fantasy.
Capone: Is it ever, especially with her. She’s so unbelievable likable and funny.
JD: She’s very funny and she hasn’t been allowed to be particularly funny in anything else I’ve seen her in. And her personality is such that I think the character is lovable. She’s just so lovable and cute and sexy. It’s a great combination.
Capone: I know horror comedies are a tough thing to get right. In your head, what is the key?
JD: I’m a James Whale fan, so my views about horror films and comedy is that the horror has to be played straight in order for the comedy to work. Like ABBOTT AND COSTELLO MEET FRANKENSTEIN, it’s one of the great horror comedies because the monsters are played straight. Horror movies are essentially absurd anyway, and you have to do a lot of suspension of disbelief in order to buy into a horror film. Luckily, they’re so popular now, that audiences routinely suspend their disbelief and go, “Okay, yeah sure. I believe it.” But the stories none the less are still fairly absurd. You have to acknowledge that absurdity without playing it up and letting it get in the way of the story.
So I’ve basically gone off of instinct. What’s funny to me is also funny to other people. You don’t want people laughing in the wrong place, but there also is a certain amount of nervous tension that happens just watching a horror film, and you have to let that out. In the old days, sometimes it was clinically with comic relief—the frightened valet or whatever—and that would be the comic relief and that was okay. But now, obviously, things are much more complex. There’s a comic edge to even the most horrific event, and I think vise versa.
Capone: Speaking of playing it straight, it warmed my heart to see Dick Miller pop up here as the grumpy cop. At this festival I help program here in Chicago, we played the documentary about him [THAT GUY DICK MILLER], and we got Dick and his wife to come out and we did a whole evening tribute to him. It was thrilling to see you are still committed to featuring him in as many places as you can.
JD: I am. As long as he wants to do it. He was officially retired. When you see the documentary, it takes it for granted that he’s retired until the end of the documentary when he’s sitting by the phone, waiting for it to ring, which I think is where he is now.
Capone: Going back to your Roger Corman days, are there lessons you learned about economical and efficient filmmaking that you still apply to the work today?
JD: All of us graduates of the Corman film school have kept those lessons close at hand though our entire careers. No matter how big the budget, no matter how long the schedule, the only thing that is important is what happens between when you say “Action” and when you say “Cut.” All the rest of it is peripheral. So you learn a lot of tricks that allow you to save time and to spend the limited amount of time there is on the stuff that’s important and not have to waste time doing reverses and re-lights and shooting shots that you don’t need. You really do develop a very economical style. This picture was shot in 20 days, very much like at New World Pictures.
Capone: During your time working for Steven Spielberg and Amblin, did you learn any newer habits that you carried on to this day?
JD: I had to adjust. It was a completely different world. It was a studio environment with trained technicians, not ilm school people who were learning on the job. And in a lot of senses, it goes much more smoothly when you’re making a film of that type. However, the more budget they have and the more money is thrown at the movie, very often, the more interference there is from on high. With Spielberg, that didn’t happen because he was always the arbiter between the filmmaker and the studio, and anybody who worked for him found themselves in a situation very analogous to working for Corman in a sense that you’re talking to a filmmaker. If you have a problem, you can talk to somebody who actually knows what they’re talking about. And once I left Spielberg and went into the real world, it became quite apparent that there were a lot of people that you have to deal with that were not as knowledgable about making films.
Capone: Seeing BURYING THE EX reminded me how good you have always been at making films with younger people—not just for them, but about them. Younger meaning 20s and younger. You treat them like real human beings with real issues and concerns. You throw them in these outrageous situations, but you still remember they have age-specific issues that they are dealing with. Has that always been important to you?
JD: I think so. It’s one of those things people say, “You’ve made a lot of pictures with kids in them.” And you look back and go, “Well, gee. I guess I have.” It’s not a plan. It’s not like something you think about going in. You discover that your personality has dominated the movie, and it’s become, for good or ill, a Joe Dante movie and it probably includes young people.
Capone: I know people talk about the inherent Joe Dante-ness of your movies, but have you really thought much about where that comes from and what that entails?
JD: No. I think I would have to lie down if I did try to think about that stuff [laughs]. There’s a book from the Austrian Film Museum; it’s a lengthy, thick book about what I was thinking, and it’s like, fine. Whatever. I have a bromide that, it doesn't really matter what the filmmaker intends; it’s what people get out of the movie that’s important. So any reading of a movie, you can’t say, “That’s the wrong reading.” No, if that’s you’re reading of the movie, then that’s what the movie means to you.
Capone: In recent years, I’ve definitely had a couple of directors say to me in interviews, “I didn’t think about this consciously going into this film, but people have pointed out to me, and it’s so obvious now that these things were there that I didn’t even intend to be there.”
JD: I think it’s a very common situation, because there are so many other things to think about, because it’s all problem solving. Directing movies is just problem solving—one problem after the other. The more movies you make, the less mistakes you make, because you already made them, but there are other mistakes waiting to be made, so you still have to be on your toes about it. You can’t just sail through it.
Capone: Between your last feature, THE HOLE, and this, you’ve done a lot of television. I noticed a lot of episodes of “Hawaii Five-0,” and you did a recent episode of “Salem.” How have those experiences been for you?
JD: Doing someone else’s show is always different than if you create it. If you do a pilot, that’s like making a feature. If you do an episode, that’s like you’re doing somebody else’s movie. So basically, you have to adopt the style of the show, whatever it is, because you can’t deviate from it too much, or it will look like it doesn’t fit in with the rest of it. As far as the actors go, they’ve probably been playing their parts for quite a while, they know exactly what they are doing, and often in a show like “Salem” or “Witches of East End,” there’s a long, complicated plot track of what’s going on, and characters have these arcs the they’re in the middle of, so you have to do your due diligence and watch all the other episodes so you know who everybody is. On “Salem,” they’ve been sending me the scripts even after my episode, so it’s really interesting. It’s the only show I’ve ever done that I’ve been so interested in the story that I really want to know how it ends. And so I’ve been reading the scripts, and I think it’s almost done. I don't know if they’re going to renew it or not, but it’s really quite a good show.
Capone: I have to ask about this film THE MAN WITH KALEIDOSCOPE EYES. The one about Corman making THE TRIP. Is that any closer to happening, because I’d put money into that film. It sounds amazing.
JD: [laughs] I know, I know, I know. Other people have asked that. It’s amazing the publicity this movie has gotten, especially for the fact that it never got made. Twice we came extremely close to making the picture, and it fell apart. But I haven't given up, and Roger is still with us. I would like to make the picture while he’s here.
Capone: That does seem like a worthy goal.
JD: It is a worthy goal, and we have not given up on it. We are still plugging away. It is one of several projects, because you can’t have only one. It’s one of several projects that I’m trying to find the money for.
Capone: Can you talk about any of the other things you have in the works?
JD: I hate to do that, because I talk about them, and then they get written about, and then they don’t happen. “Here’s another project he couldn’t get made.” [laughs]
Capone: I know you don’t have anything to do with this GREMLINS sequel, whether it’s happening or not. You didn’t write it, so I assume they don’t necessarily have to come to you and ask you for your blessing.
JD: No, I’m not an owner of the franchise, so it’s entirely their choice what they want to do, and I really don’t know anything about it.
Capone: I have to imagine in the last 25 years or so since the second one that ideas for sequels have maybe come to you.
JD: The original sequel came to me after they had tried a number of other approaches for five years, and they decided they really wanted the picture, so they came back to me and said, “Just give us two cans of film of gremlins in it for next summer, and you can do whatever you want.” It was an irresistible offer. I was very happy with the movie. It was much more personal to me than the previous movie. But it was too late. It was five years too late. Even GHOSTBUSTERS 2 didn’t make money, and plus it cost three times the original.
For some reason, it’s still popular after 30 years. They’re still making the toys; we recently ran the original in France in front of an audience of 1,000 children. It was like watching the sneak preview all over again. It is one of those odd movies that has retained its popularity where many better known moves of that period have fallen away. So obviously that’s why they want to make another one. I think the issue is what is it going to be, and how are they going to do it? They’ve made numerous attempts over the years, and they get announced all the time, but then nothing ever comes of it. So I don’t know. I’m the last person to ask, because I really have nothing to do with it.
Capone: People are always asking you if there are any new genre directors that you are a fan of today. I know some of them you work with, but are there any that you think are getting that new playful aspect to horror that you always did? Are there people that you’re watching now that might have some out of the Joe Dante School of Genre Filmmaking?
JD: I think the guy who made ATTACK THE BLOCK.
Capone: Joe Cornish.
JD: Yes. I think Joe Cornish is on that list. He’s a friend of Edgar’s. Edgar Wright is on that list. I love those guys.
Capone: Yeah, they’re pretty great. Joe, thank you so much, it was great to finally talk to you, and best of luck with this. And please get that Corman movie made. I’m dying to see it.
JD: I’ll tell them you told us we should make it.
Capone: I’ll write a whole paragraph just about it.
JD: I’ll tell the next financier, “Steve Prokopy told me to make this next.” [laughs]
Capone: They’ll back up the Brinks truck for you, I promise.
