By now it seems likely that, if pay any kind of attention to what played best to the crowds at Sundance this year—or to art house favorites in general—that you’ve heard of a great little documentary called THE WOLFBACK, from first-time feature director Crystal Moselle, who by complete chance and fate stumbled upon one of the most unusual stories of growing up in New York City. She ran into a group of brothers on a rare trip out of doors on the city streets. The Angulo brothers (six in total) were kept in their apartment along with their young sister and parents for their entire lives, with the occasional trip out of doors (about once a year), with the stern fatherly warning that if they go outside, bad things will happen to them.
Their primary window to the outside would were movies, and by the time Moselle met the family, they boys had amassed a roughly 5,000-title library and knew these films so intimately and were such fans of many of the movies that they’d re-create scenes from the films in the apartment, many of which we see in THE WOLFPACK. The Angulos seem like the friendliest young men you’re ever likely to meet, but there is an underlying sadness and paranoia about the world around. Still, when Moselle met them, they were in a transition period, where they were taking more frequent trips out of doors (including one quite moving experience of seeing a film in a theater for the first time), and by the time the film hit Sundance, the boys were right there in Park City (along with their mother) to experience an overload of new movies—a cinemaphile’s dream come true.
I got a chance recently to chat with Moselle, who began her film career as an intern for another great female documentarian Ondi Timoner (Dig!, We Live In Public, Brand). You’ve never seen a film quite like this one, and Moselle makes no bones about befriending these kids before turning the cameras on them. Although many doc filmmakers believe in some kind of objective distance, Moselle takes the opposite approach. She set out to help the brothers work their way into the world, and although she doesn’t position herself that way in the film, it’s clear that just her being around and coming and going so often is having an impact on the Angulos. Please enjoy my talk with Crystal Moselle…
Capone: Hi, Crystal. How are you?
Crystal Moselle: Hi. Good, thanks.
Capone: There are a couple of obvious questions that leapt out at me that I’m sure you’re getting asked during every single interview. How did your life intersect with the lives of these brothers? How long ago was it, and how did it happen?
CM: About five years ago this month, I was walking down 1st Ave., and these six boys ran past me with long hair, and they were very intriguing, and I immediately ran after them. They had black, long hair, they had sunglasses on, they may or may not have been dressed like Reservoir Dogs. Something drew me towards them, and I instinctually carried on down the street after them. We met up at a crosswalk, and I asked them where they’re from, and if they’re all brothers, and they Delancy Street, which is right down the street, and I was like, “What? Really? Are you sure? I haven’t seen you around.” And Govinda asked me, “What are you do for a living?” And I said, “I’m a filmmaker.” And he goes, “Oh, we are interested in getting into the business of filmmaking.” I was like, “Okay. Let’s look at some cameras together. I can show you some stuff.” And that’s how the friendship started.
Capone: I know in the film, they mentioned they really only used to get out once, maybe twice, or maybe not at all per year. When you met them, was that still where they were in their lives?
CM: No, no, no. When they went out with their dad, which was before they were allowed out, it was once a year, sometimes. One year, it was never. But once I met them, he had already gone out with a mask, and it was the first week they had all gone out together as a group.
Capone: Oh, so you caught them at the exact right moment when they were really starting to break free. So from that point, what were the order of events that got you into their house? And were you their first guest ever?
CM: Yeah. It was really just a friendship at first, and I would hang out with them. I’d still film, but it was very casual, and at one point, they asked me to come over to their house, and I came over and was able to check out how they lived. They were doing this prep for this Halloween thing that they do, so I went over to look at that stuff. Their parents were gone, their parents left them to hang out with their new friend, and I was their first friend that they ever had to enter their household.
Capone: At what point did they reveal to you or did you figure out what their living situation had been, and how did you react?
CM: It took awhile. There were like little clues here and there. I found out that they’re homeschooled, and that made sense to me, because the way they socialize is very different. And then after that, I think it was when I was at their home for Thanksgiving, they told me I was their first friend. They were like, “You are our first friend to come to our house.” And that was a huge moment for me. I was like, “Okay, so they didn’t have friends growing up.” But I still didn’t realize they were never let out. And it took me until Mukunda told me about how he broke out, and that was maybe like a year into the process. Even at that point, I didn’t realize how strict it was, and how their father would only let them out once a year. I thought they would still go out, but it was very restricted. It was like a year ago that I got the interview when he told me that one year they didn’t go out at all, and that was after 9/11. It was a slow process of learning. I didn’t pry too much, I just let them reveal it to me in their own way, and they wanted to. They wanted to tell their story.
Capone: So you were interested in filming them before you found that out.
CM: Oh, yeah. I was full on wanting to make a documentary about them before I even knew what the situation was, because they were so interesting. As people, as subjects, I was totally inspired and intrigued by them. That part was a whole other dimension of the story that I actually had to reframe myself from the original idea that I had. The original idea was to do some behind-the-scenes, making-of their films, almost like AMERICAN MOVIE. We had these quiry characters doing reenactments and all this funny stuff, and to me it was just a unique profile on these interesting characters, but then the levels of the story just kept growing, and the layers were being unpeeled, and I realized that the story was a lot more delicate and complex than I had thought before, and that’s when I ended up spending five years on it.
Capone: So you were more interested in them as these amateur filmmakers. And they’re really passionate, but so many documentaries that I see start out with an idea or framework and are afraid to stray from it. But once you realized there was more to the story, you let it completely reshape the way you made your film and the focus of the film.
CM: Yeah, it was all about finding the emotion in the story. Actually, working with Enat Sidi, who was our editor on this, she was so helpful in bringing out that story.
Capone: I was going to ask you about that. I love her work. I think she’s great. [Sisi also edited JESUS CAMP and DETROPIA.]
CM: Oh, god. She’s amazing. At first, I think I was almost scared to reveal that stuff, because it was so personal to them. But once they really told me that they wanted this story out there and gave me the okay and freedom to tell it, that’s when the film really came alive.
Capone: You said you were with them for five years and followed them for five years. How did you know when you were done? What was it that made you say, “Okay, I think I’ve got enough footage now after five years.”
CM: I think when you see the footage you have—and that’s another learning process. I’d say “There’s been so much change.” But we have to see that through the footage. When we were able to see that change through the footage with really great scenes, with really great emotions, that’s when I like knew. There’s a scene—I feel like it’s almost a spoiler to tell it, because it’s such a beautiful moment—in the orchard when we see the mom go her own way. To me, that was really the moment when I was like, “Okay. We have something that’s really powerful here.” In this subtle, little, beautiful moment, we see change.
Capone: Do you get a sense that you being there, and you being in their lives, and coming and going for so many years, did that in any way inspire them to get out more?
CM: Oh yeah, absolutely. When I first met them, it was so incredibly…I like to help people, and my dad works with kids in juvenile hall with music as a music therapist, and my entire family, they’re all psychiatrists. It makes me feel good. For me, it was so exciting that I had a skill that these kids were so fascinated by, they wanted to learn something that I knew about. I think at first I was like a mentor to them. But as they started to venture out into the world and create their own stories, stories in their own life in their own way, I stepped back and recorded them in their transformations in the world.
Capone: The newest footage in the film, how long ago was that shot?
CM: The last interview we did was last November.
Capone: So not that long before Sundance, then.
CM: Yeah.
Capone: I know the brothers were there. I did not see the film there, but I tried my hardest to find room in my schedule. What was that experience like? Not just showing it there, but bringing them out and having them be a part of it?
CM: Oh god, it was amazing. It was such a beautiful, fulfilling experience.
Capone: What did they think of the film?
CM: They all felt like it was an honest portrayal of their family. They really felt like it didn’t have judgements, which I was really going for. I didn’t want them to feel like I was putting my judgement onto it, and just really letting them tell their story. Their father said it was really educational for him to see his kids’ point of view, and Mukunda said that it felt like he went to 100 years of therapy, and now he’s all better.
Capone: Tell me about dealing with the father, because it seems like that would have been the most difficult part about this. For a while, he’s barely present, at least in your film he seems to be locked away most of the time you're there. How did you sort of navigate when he was around?
CM: He was actually very open to filming, and I think he saw some opportunity with this film. It was always pretty open. Sometimes he wouldn’t feel like it, but otherwise he was very open to the situation.
Capone: One of the funniest things in the film was near the beginning, you show us that some of the boys have lists of their favorite films, and a couple of the lists I remember seeing included THE FIGHTER, which I thought was a weird choice to see on more than one list. And then later in the film, we find out why that film is so important to them, and I thought that was really sweet that it was because of the experience of going to see that movie.
CM: They’re also huge David O. Russell fans. They reenact scenes from THREE KINGS, and yeah, their taste really varies and goes all over the place. They just love movies. They love the classics, of course, but it stretches out.
Capone: How big was their collection?
CM: They say they have 5,000 movies, but I don’t know if there are that many.
Capone: Even still, a little bit less than that is still pretty impressive. Obviously one of the highlights of the film is just watching them reenact these films and capturing their passion for not just movies, but storytelling and creativity and resourcefulness. And I love the way they aren’t afraid to mix and match characters and put them in scenarios or films where they don’t belong necessarily, but why not? Talk about capturing that aspect of their personality.
CM: It’s funny because there’s almost like two sides to that story. They’re so meticulous with creating these reenactments as far as writing down every single line, they say they let the movie direct them, so if the character picks up a cup of coffee with his left hand and drinks it, then looks over to his right. They’re going to do the exact same thing. But sometimes they get into free-spirited improvising. They’ll literally come up with like a full idea like, “Let’s do BIG LEBOWSKI meets HALLOWEEN 5.” They’ll take characters from HALLOWEEN 5 and BIG LEBOWSKI, and they just make it work and it’s amazing.
Capone: Was there something maybe a little deeper about the way they interpreted these films that maybe people who haven't seen them in that world might not notice? It felt like they were acting out these scenes that take place in a world that they, at least at the time, didn’t have access to. It was their way of feeling like they were outside of that apartment. Did you get a sense of that?
CM: Yeah, absolutely. They were building these worlds because they were stuck in this house, they didn’t have access to the outside, so they’re building their own environments though these films. And also, they were able to gain some sort of power through these characters as well. They weren’t able to exercise power with their father because it was too crazy inside that household. So through these characters, they were able to like exercise these emotions, maybe—feeling powerful, angry, or fighting it out. It was all through these interpretations.
Capone: As you were spending all this time with them, and then also in the editing, was this a journey for you as well? How did spending five years of your life on this change you.
CM: I learned so much about building a story and working with these kids, because they’re actors but they’re also documentary subjects, and we were able to play in both worlds. It was very painful as well, as a human being seeing the struggles that these kids went through when they were young, but their resilience is so strong and inspiring. I just wanted to make sure to tell an inspiring story, because it’s such a tragic story as well.
Capone: I found out recently that you used to intern for Ondi Timoner years ago, and I had the great pleasure of spending some time with her at SXSW recently with her Russell Brand documentary.
CM: Oh my god, I can’t wait to see that.
Capone: Which film of hers did you work on?
CM: Funny enough, I was actually working at Pseudo.com, with the guy that did WE LIVE IN PUBLIC. I was working with him for a few years, and she was coming in and doing some projects with them and eventually I ended up doing a documentary on him.
Capone: Crystal, thanks so much for taking the time to talk, and best of luck with this.
