I get such a kick out of interviewing young actors—and when I say “young,” I mean 25 years old and younger. They’re less afraid to speak their mind, which is not always a good thing for their careers, but it’s great for interviews. And the smart ones also tend to have a clear sense of the kind of work they’d like to do five or ten years down the road. They won’t all end up where their envision, but it’s interesting to hear them dream out loud. They also haven’t learned any bad habits yet, like adopting a stand-office approach to anyone who isn’t in the business. Interviews with them more often feel like actual conversations, making them a lot more fun on both sides of the table.
And then there are the three smart, sharp and utterly friendly leads of ME AND EARL AND THE DYING GIRL, who I was lucky enough to sit down with recently on their stop in Chicago, along with the film’s director Alfonso Gomez-Rejon. Thomas Mann (PROJECT X, HANSEL AND GRETEL, BEAUTIFUL CREATURES, WELCOME TO ME) plays Greg, a high school student who makes parodies of art house films with his best/only friend Earl (newcomer RJ Cyler, our second guest) and is forced by his mother to spend time with Rachel (British import Olivia Cooke of THE SIGNAL, THE QUIET ONES, OUIJA and “Bates Motel,” in which she also plays a dying girl), a classmate with leukemia. ME AND EARL is one of those rare films that is a love story, without the burden of it being a romance; the bond that eventually forms between Greg and Rachel is hard earned and comes from a mutual respect. Not to make the film seem like a bummer, there are also a great deal of well-earned laughs throughout the film.
The heart and soul of ME AND EARL is these three remarkable young actor, and I had a great time talking to them about both the weighty and lighter themes of the film. Please enjoy my talk with Thomas Mann, RJ Cyler, and Olivia Cooke…
Capone: I don’t know if anyone has mentioned to you that I’m a programer for something called the Chicago Critics Film Festival…
Thomas Mann: That just happened, didn’t it?
Capone: Yes, about two weeks ago. ME AND EARL was the closing night film. Alfonso came in for that, he was actually just here a couple of weeks ago.
TM: At the Music Box, right?
Capone: Right. It was our best-attended film of the whole festival; it was an awesome experience. When you first got this script—and I’m assuming you all were first exposed to this story though the script before you read the book—do you remember what it was you responded to specifically about your individual characters? What you hooked into you and made you think, “Yeah, I can do something with this.”
Olivia Cooke: I think just the honesty my character had, and while she’s physically getting weaker and weaker, just the strength that she has. I feel like teenagers are always depicted as having insecurities and this internal battle all the time. What I liked about Rachel is, she is very quietly confident and happy with herself. She likes herself, and her strength throughout is just really palatable, and that’s what I really enjoyed about her.
TM: I just loved the way that Jesse Andrews, the writer, embraced the stubbornness or selfishness of teenagers, and when I read Greg, it reminded me so much of myself when I was that age and how you know in the back of your head the right thing to do, but it’s not always what you want to do. His stubbornness and his sense of humor, and the way he dealt with things or chose to not deal with things is what I responded to the most. And the way they spoke. The dialogue was so…
OC: Real.
TM: Real. Yeah.
RJ Cyler: The voice of Earl was in my head, and I was like, “Okay, it sounds just like RJ.” The stuff that would come out of his mouth in the script, when I was reading, I was like, “Okay, I would definitely say that.” I’ll give it a little someting extra when I say it, but… [laughs]
Capone: That’s got to be a strange feeling when someone captures your voice like that, someone who doesn't know you and has never met you. You don’t hear that too often.
OC: Jessie’s a genius. He really is.
TM: He just understands people. It’s really amazing.
OC: And he’s so unassuming and modest when you meet him.
TM: Yeah. He went to Harvard, but you would never know.
OC: Yeah, he would never offer that information up.
Capone: I love that all three of your characters are creative people, some of them more secretly than others. There is a weird burden with being creative at a young age and the way you’re accepted by others. We know that 10 years from now, they’re going to be geniuses and celebrated and rich, but when they’re young, there can be issues.
TM: They don’t really know what it means yet. No one is really embracing it, so it’s hard. It takes a lot of courage to share that part of yourself with people.
OC: Especially in a world where no one has these moments anymore. Everyone seems more astute—young kids, teenagers. There are no big gestures or romantic notions, and with artists, these people tend to be quite hypersensitive because they express themselves though their art. Probably they can be outcasted straight away because of that.
TM: Yeah, sometimes the criticism is just too much.
Capone: Their skin isn’t thick yet. They can’t handle it.
OC: Right.
Capone: I also really appreciated that when Earl and Greg were making these films for themselves, they didn’t care about anyone seeing them, it seemed like they could just churn them out pretty fast. But when there are actually stakes involved and a life in the balance here, they freeze up.
TM: It’s the first time Greg has really felt responsibility to someone else, and also having to share this creative side, but then having whatever that output is mean something is a whole new pressure that’s a real burden for him, at least at first.
RJC: Really, Earl is just… how can I put it? He’s like the supportive friend. He’s not really the creative extra. He’s really just there as a piggy back off of Greg. He’s just like “Okay, this is my only friend, so I’m going to be there to do them with him. And I feel like in that relationship, Greg complements Earl and teaches Earl at the same time as Earl complements and teaches Greg throughout the movie. They just learn from each other just throughout this whole friendship process that they have created and built with Rachel also.
TM: Also, the fact that Earl puts up with Greg referring to him as a co-worker…[laughs] I think Greg feels comfortable around Earl because Earl just lets him be.
Capone: Earl is also his only audience in a lot of these films.
TM: Oh yeah. They are making most of them together, so he’s his partner in crime.
Capone: I sat through the end of the film again last night, and I came in right where Greg and Rachel are fighting, where she’s announcing she’s not going to do treatment anymore. It’s my favorite scene in the film, and then it’s almost immediately followed by another fight. So it’s basically Greg’s life completely imploding. We get to like all these people and the way they are together, and then you just blow it up. Talk about the significance of those two scenes. They seem necessary for Greg to grow up a bit and have his bubble burst.
TM: Definitely. I like to approach that scene not knowing what was going to happen or approaching it as a comedy. He starts off talking about the prom, talking about twerking or whatever. So if you start from that place and let this tragedy or sadness sneak up on you, it’s much more powerful and the audience isn’t expecting it either. It’s a real moment for Greg that I don’t think he’s ever had, and he doesn’t know how to deal with it. Instead of being upset, he turns it into being angry. He has a right to be, but it’s also selfish. I think he knows that, but it’s just this pushing back.
OC: It’s all coming from a place of him really hating himself, I feel.
TM: Yeah, and knowing that he’s not…
OC: Not helping in a way.
TM: Yeah, he’s not helping. Just frustrated. There’s a real frustration, and he has to take it out somewhere, and unfortunately he wants to take it out on Earl. Somehow he blames Earl for all this happening, and then Earl lays it out for him, the way he always does.
Capone: That’s a great speech, by the way. How many times did you do that? It’s like you push out that monologue in one breath.
RJC: We did that scene like…
TM: I don’t know. We did it a lot of times. There was this train that kept going by.
[Everybody laughs]
Capone: Pittsburgh!
TM: Oh my god, it was the most frustrating thing. We literally wanted to cry. We were so frustrated, we couldn't finish a take because these trains kept coming by, or the camera would mess up. Once we figured it out, we did it a few times. It was really amazing to watch your progression throughout it.
RJC: Yeah, I got there, emotionally. I don’t know. Alfonso got me in the emotional state, and there was one take where Thomas knew how to push me over the edge. There was one take we did where he like shoved me a little bit, and I was like, “Pop!” I popped my top. I’m there now. It was good to see that I could actually reach that level, so it was a maturing thing for me as an actor to not be so afraid to let myself go there, because that’s where most of the honest work comes from.
Capone: You have a slightly older generation of actors that you’re working with, mostly playing parents or teachers. Who amongst that group did you guys learn the most from and get the biggest kick out of watching when you got to work with them.
TM: I don’t know, they all are so different and so important to the film and to us. They all showed up on set with their own gifts in a way.
OC: Yeah, they really do. Connie Britton’s got this really quiet, caring, motherly instinct about her. She’s there to give and offer advice if you need it, but she’s a really great listener as well. Molly Shannon is hilarious and so inquisitive about every aspect of your life. It feels like therapy. She just draws all the information out of you.
TM: Yeah, the day she meets you she just wants to know everything about you, and you tell her, because she’s so genuine and caring. Nick Offerman was hilarious. I am such a huge fan. I was so excited when I found out he and Connie were playing my parents.
OC: Also he doesn’t fill the void with senseless noise. He chooses if and when to speak, and what he says is just so wise.
TM: It’s very deliberate. He doesn’t say anything unless he absolutely means it.
OC: It’s a nice lesson for us.
TM: Yeah, they’re both just great roll models. I remember there was this time we were between takes, and I saw them. They were both sitting on the couch, and I sat in between them, and it was a nice moment. I felt very comfortable with them, and it felt like a family.
Capone: Neither of you mentioned Jon Bernthal, who to me is like the most manly man I’ve ever seen. He would make me feel like a small child.
RJC: Plus he’s tall, man. He’s like built.
TM: Truly, truly. He’s a fighter, too. He’s like a boxing guy.
RJC: He’s the dude that you don’t start a problem with in a bar, no matter your size.
TM: He’s a good person to have on your side.
RJC: I play with Jon on my game, also. He’s on the new Call of Duty. So I talk mad trash. I’m like, “I know him already, so that’s why we’re not losing.” Even talking to Jon you would think at first before meeting him that he’s like this hard ass. But he’s really a genuinely sweet person. He’s authentic and real. He doesn’t take short cuts or anything. There’s no censor.
TM: He has so much energy and so much presence when he walks into a room. He’s like, “Hey, how are you, man? Good to see you!” He’s very present. It’s great.
Capone: Olivia, I know people have been talking about the fact that you actually did shave your head. I have to imagine that waking up in the morning and seeing yourself like that, immediately puts you where you need to be for that.
OC: Completely.
Capone: Were there other options available to you other than shaving?
OC: When I auditioned for the film, it wasn’t said that any of the actresses had to shave their head, and then two weeks before going into rehearsals, I sent Alfonso this panicked email saying “Bald caps look awful. I don’t want, on my behalf, to take anyone out of the film. We should just shave the head.” And then various people spoke to each other; they contacted the show that I was on [“Bates Motel”] to make sure it was okay, they were like, yeah. And I was like, “Shit! I’ve got to do it now.” If they say no, at least I look cool for like suggesting that we shave the head. And then yeah, we did it, and in the morning I woke up… it’s the weirdest thing to hear the bristles of your really, really short buzz cut on your pillow. It’s the noisiest thing ever, waking up in the morning looking like this weird greyhound alien.
TM: Greyhound alien. Wow.
OC: Just so streamlined.
TM: She had such a warm head, though. We’d all put our hands on it. Before a take we’d be like, “Okay, we all need energy.”
OC: Yeah, to get positive energy, we’d all put the hands on my head. But yeah definitely, the speech when I’ve just lost my hair and I say to Greg, “I’m so ugly. I feel so ugly.” That was coming from absolute truth.
Capone: That’s an incredible line, actually. Probably a lot of people who go through that feel that way, but in movies, at least, they don't say it because they’re supposed to have a more positive spin on the experience. But to hear her say that probably represents the voices of millions of people who loose their hair to chemotherapy.
OC: Right. Never did it seem false to say that. Rachel is so strong throughout, and at this moment for a young woman—for anyone—to lose their hair is such a traumatic thing when it’s been your identity and your safety blanket for such a long time. You really are just naked. There’s nothing to hide you. It’s like a newborn baby. There are no distinguishing features. It’s really, really bizarre, scary experience.
Capone: Did you get a sense that the casting folks looked to you initially for this part because of what you do on “Bates Motel”?
OC: They probably didn’t even like that about me playing sick. They probably wanted me to go against that. I’ve already done that, but they’re so different, and have such different illnesses, and it’s only the second character that I’ve played, and I hope I don’t get typecast [laughs].
Capone: All of you, thank you so much. Really great to meet you.
