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MYSTERIO REVIEWS TERMINATOR 3 SCRIPT!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.
Well, he did it. MYSTERIO may be disgruntled about his career as an effects artist, but he's found a pretty decent alternative for himself as AICN's resident script master. He's got an amazing archive library located in an old film vault here in town, and he's the man with the plan when it comes to getting the ungettables. Last week, I casually dared him to get TERMINATOR 3, and now here he is with the first official report anywhere on the script. Let the speculation cease, as The Boy in the Bubble weighs in on the future of the franchise...
“Mysterio” here. It’s been somewhat of a brief hiatus for me around here but believe me, I’ve been lurking around. Oh no, not just around here, but EVERYWHERE! But let’s cut to the chase, shall we? One place in particular that took some time getting into was Cyberdyne Systems. Sound familiar? Well if you’re reading this piece, of course it does.
And getting in wasn’t easy. With the aid of a new gizmo called a ‘holographic refractor’ that my occasional partner in crime, ‘The Tinkerer’ came up with, was the key to getting in. With this device I was able to duplicate multiple images of myself to thwart past numerous T-1 prototypes and get to what was most important at this stage, the script.
So, that was a while ago, and like I said, not an easy task. I managed to get a bit banged up in the process and have since needed recovery time, but ultimately, was it worth it? And how would I handle doing this review? Well with regards to the recently released “T2” on DVD in various special editions, I’ve decided to do something similar: offer up two different versions of this review. The ‘extended’ review will follow immediately; the ‘spoiler free’ review will follow after at the bottom of the page. So consider this review somewhat ‘interactive’ and make your choice through your mouse now.
SPECIAL EDITION BEGINS HERE!!
Ok, so you’ve chosen to read the ‘special edition’ of this review. Go on and continue reading to find out (you know you want to), but beware…
SLIGHT SPOILERS and CONFIRMATION OF PLOT/CHARACTER DETAILS LIE AHEAD!!
BUT, I won’t tell you everything; some things should still remain a surprise.
You may proceed with caution.
Ok, let me start off first by saying the script is written by this cat named Tedi Sarafian, without any story involvement from Cameron. He’s not coming onboard, period. So let’s get over it and find out if there can still actually be another “Terminator” film without his involvement. The answer just may surprise you.
Now I have to be honest and ask: just who is this person, where did he come from and who the hell does he think he is to have the gall to try and attempt to write something even remotely on par to what Cameron has created and envisioned? Well his resume doesn’t speak volumes of produced projects, listing only a few recently in various production stages. But after putting my distrustful feelings on this practically ‘unknown’ writer aside, I decided to delve into it.
After all, like “Spider-man”, you all seem to have questions of late, some of which I can hopefully answer and help debunk some rumors right here.
So let’s check it out.
“There is no fate, but what we make,” were the words that a young John Conner uttered in describing that “the future’s not set; there is no fate except the one which we make for ourselves,” giving way to the idea that one can change the future by their actions as touched upon back in 1991’s “T2”. But to what extent?
Theories abound as to what possible clues were left behind in “T2” which might have extend over into this sequel; such as Terminator’s arm being left behind after being caught in the hydraulic winch can be dismissed. Not addressed. Nor is any direct indication that Dyson’s assistant kept copies of his records. Again not addressed. But what is the focus of this script is clearly in keeping with Cameron’s original storyline of how the machines might gain enough artificial intelligence to wage war with mankind, hence the title: T-3: RISE OF THE MACHINES.
Since it’s been years past since we last saw the likes of John & Sarah Connor or any indication of a Terminator. We’re led to believe the future is now safe for mankind, after all Cyberdyne Systems was blown to smithereens and the two Terminators left all but destroyed. But all these years gone by in peace have made John a little wary that a war with Skynet could even surmount at this point, but nevertheless still keeps an eye on Cyberdyne’s mainframe computers. Someone who’s less wary is Sarah, who has now made her home, with several mercenaries, in a heavily armed and secured militia compound in the California desert, waiting for the day that Skynet might reform and mount an attack against the human race.
Still somewhat distanced from his mother, John tries to put the past events behind and lead a normal life, which includes his successful computer programming company specializing in checking and hacking into computer securities for businesses. It’s only after a meeting with Sarah, does he do a deep security hack into Cyberdyne Systems to discover one project in particular that is heavily secured under lock and key. A project called Skynet.
Now during the course of John’s discovery, two Terminators have been dispatched, one to protect and the other to destroy John Conner. It’s opening rings true of Cameron’s intro of the two terminators from “T2”, except that the arrival of Schwarzenegger’s T-800 runs a bit long and seems a bit overly violent, more so than it really needs to be I think.
With the T-800 model dispatched, another model soon follows. This time out, it’s a new prototype terminator. A female terminator, who is impossibly beautiful and genetically perfect in more ways than just looks. Say hello to the T-1G.
Once the two terminators arrive, suit up and arm themselves, the way Sarafian re-introduces the T-800 back to us I really like. It’s a clever angle that I’m not going to spoil, but it worked in the script for my money.
It’s hard to really delve into too much of the story without really spoiling some key moments in the script. So I’ll just say that Sarafian has indeed focused the story on Skynet’s rise from the ashes, so to speak, and it’s beginnings becoming A.I. It’s essentially a race against time for our heroes to literally try and beat the clock and destroy Skynet before they completely go A.I. and take control of the world’s computer systems, which include seizing and controlling the nations nuclear weapons. This is the nightmare that haunts Sarah and the first step at eliminating mankind.
The T-1G is a superior machine, even more so than the T-1000 was, and references to it’s unstoppable and in destructive make are pointed out and demonstrated in the script. What I can tell you is that the T-1G is not made from liquid metal, but made up of sentient frequency matter, which gives it abilities that, if done right, will push the special effects to the edge as “T2” did for morphing effects. It’s essentially unstoppable and undestroyable.
The characters are also given some good moments for more character growth, and aren’t just tossed to the side in favor for of action and heavy SFX sequences, which there are plenty enough of. It’s a pretty lean a solid “un-Cameron” script but not “un-Cameron-like”.
It’s a nice package here as we get to see the most advanced and elite terminator model to date, and also get to witness the actual birth of Skynet and early prototype cyborg models literally coming off the factory line, armed and ready to go. We also get to know more about the Aerial Hunter Killer’s shown flying about in the previous films, which are basically described as terminators in the skies.
So rest easy here fans, as I have read this script, and was really coming into it expecting to completely hate it with a passion, because like most of you, I couldn’t really fathom another Terminator film without Cameron. It’s a shame that for whatever reason Cameron doesn’t want to be involved in completing his cyborg trilogy, but the script looks in pretty good shape, with only needing some polishing and tweaking in places here and there. It’s a huge film, that feels a lot like “T2” in the chase and fight sequences but adds the element of Skynet’s early origins to the mix. Sarafian is clearly a fan of the films, so it’s neither insulting nor disappointing to fans of the series, especially those of the last one.
END SPOILERS HERE!!
START THE “SPOILER FREE” VERSION HERE!!
You can rest assure, the script is good. Now was that spoiler free enough for ya? No? Then keep reading.
Only question is getting the right talent onboard, which I had “The Tinkerer” make a few fact-checking calls for me on a few rumors I’m sure you’ve all heard and some confirmed this week.
First, I’m told that Ridley Scott has “expressed interest” in the project, and no director has been chosen yet, but with him doing “Black Hawk Down” for Jerry Bruckheimer, and possibly “Popcorn” as his next films, it doesn’t leave a lot of room in his schedule for the proposed March 2001 shoot date. It would be rather poetic to see Scott take over where Cameron left off as Cameron did with Scott’s “Alien”. We’ll just have to wait and see.
Schwarzengger is obviously back on board reprising his role, but word from the offices at Cinergi, who is producing the project, we’re rather mum about either Hamiltion or Furlong definitely returning, which obviously if they didn’t would clearly wreck havok with the script.
So this message goes out to you studio heads out there overseeing this project: make it good, you are handicapped without Cameron, but not dead. To paraphrase John Connor’s words a bit, “there is no fate unless a bad movie you make.” Feeling the pressure yet? No, then check out the talkbacks below. You guys wanna make a ton ‘o money right? Then us fans want a ton ‘o fun for our money in seeing this film done right and giving proper respect to the series.
So then when I asked if this was the script, by Tedi Sarafian, that they we’re going into production with, the answer I received was something along the lines of, “well he wrote the script, didn’t he?” How does one answer a question with a question like that? Hmmm, could I possibly have been referring that maybe other writers may have been brought on board for re-writes and such, but coming from the “suits” that’s the smart-ass answer that was given. I’m told they we’re very reluctant to answer or confirm any rumors that have been circulating of late, but hopefully some of these script details and recent articles in the papers, can confirm some of them.
So “Terminator”-fans don’t give up hope just yet, I believe there is enough good in this script to make another film worthwhile, but now it really comes down to the talent and budget brought on board to see justice brought to the screenplay. So for all you “it’s still gonna suck ‘cause Cameron’s still not involved”, flame on. But remember, it’s Cameron’s choice to not come back, and if it really was a lousy script, I’d be right behind you, but let’s wait and see what happens, as this is the first real big hurdle to clear.
Time to “self-terminate” now.
-“Mysterio”
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Was initially worried but this should be v cool. Well done on getting your hands on this slippery little parchment.
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i actually think that the female cyborg/terminator idea is really great, but i'd like to see it left to a new and original film.
it feels like there is this great *need* to make a franchise, or a fucking trilogy these days...it's just not necessary, ESPECIALLY with the Terminator series: both were great films and really work as two films...another would spoil it in my opinion, like...it seems like this script is just trying to out-fx T2, leaving the plot convoluted (spelling?) and pretty stupid really....i think cameron is very wise for staying away from this one, and arnie has just become a self-parody.
anyone else agree?
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An army of terminators that can only be destroyed with really, REALLY big guns. That I would pay to see in a dumb-ass kind of way. Otherwise these ideas sound good but cant someone just buy Cameron a space shuttle or something to get him on board?
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Forget T3, i want Arnold to release pumping iron on DVD - I know you own the rights Mr Schwarzenegger!!
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I don't care how the script is. It's just not going to work without Cameron. From what I read of Mysterio's review the line about Sarah hanging out with mercs rivals Alien 3 for setting a entire movie back in character development. Either do something new and exciting with paying homage to the original or leave it the hell alone!!!
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Oct 13, 2000 4:02:07 AM CDT
Mysterio was always my favorite Spidey villain! This proves why
by bari umenema
Harry or Moriarty, give Mysterio a big fat bonus for this one!
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Oct 13, 2000 4:17:49 AM CDT
Don't be surprised if Peter Hyams winds up directing it.
by bari umenema
He'll do an adequate job with the f/x and logistics which truthfully is all this thing needs. Ridley and Roland will either pass or be unavailable. I must say I like the story as Mysterio has partially-described in the enhanced version and look forward to seeing it. Kudos to Serafian for picking up the baton and at least making it to the damn finish line. We all want this to be good so since Tedi and the Cinergi gang will be readint this make your suggestions pertinent to what they already have on paper and offer them in the spirit of true fandom. I have to believe that good ideas suggested here will be incorporated, unfortunately you guys will never be compensated for making them and Tedi and the Cinergi pricks will take all the credit for them but what the hell, tell them what you're dying to see and if you get wind that they used YOUR IDEA just sneak into the movie when it opens, that way you get the satisfaction of seeing your suggestion on-screen and the double-satisfaction of denying them your hard-earned 8 bucks! I will be sneaking into this just to piss off Mario Kassar and Andy Vajna.
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...'Tank Girl'! Oh, christ. Even the creators of the comic described him as, if memory serves, "a cowboy-booted Los Angeles tit", and that was *before* they saw what he'd done to their character in the final movie. Funnily enough, the IMBD informs me that he's had almost no work since. Yet now he's suddenly called in to write a script for T3? Shit! Who's this guy got for an agent? I want to get on his books! (Maybe it's the same agent who against all odds keeps getting Akiva Goldsman work in Hollywood, as opposed to work in Subway where he rightly belongs.)
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Sounds a bit like EVE OF DESTRUCTION. Any ideas as to who would play the fem-borg. That chick that does the stunts on BUFFY would be good.
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Instead of taking the story on a new twist, we're just getting a rehash of one of the earlier movies. Personally, I would've liked to see T3 done as a sort of prequel. Set in the future after the nuclear attack, showing J.Connor's rise to power and the whole Skynet vs the resistance thing. Instead, they're doing good terminator vs bad terminator again. Bah!
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While the basic premise sounds not unreasonable, I'm inclined to go along with TheMind, in that the Terminator films work well as a pair and I don't see how a third one can do anything but harm to a generally excellent pair of films. Which is probably why Cameron's not touching it with a bargepole. On that topic, I don't think that Cameron is actually as essential to the project as people seem to think. Yes, the man has a good eye, but there are directors out there who could probably do just as well. Even Bari's suggestion of Peter Hyams would probably work well enough, although I'd rather see the project end up in the hands of someone like David Fincher or Ridley Scott. Ahnuld himself is now, what, 53, which is seriously pushing the limits of credibility for the character. Then again, could a Terminator film really be done without him. Alright, yes, obviously it could, but would it really work. Debatable. He's arguably more necessary to the film sequence than Cameron is, being the face of the Terminator and all that, but with a good, intelligent script, even the mighty Ahnuld himself could probably be removed and still make the film a success. Hell, his last couple of movie outings have hardly lit up the box office, and his performances do seem to veer dangerously close to self-parody at times these days. Sure, Ahnie in another Terminator film is a pretty sure bet for a major success, but I'm going to be utterly heretical and suggest that he's not absolutely critical to the success of the film.
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Oct 13, 2000 5:07:29 AM CDT
Is this sarafian guy related to Richard C.Sarafian by chance ? a
by no.6
hmmmmmmmmmm.
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Oct 13, 2000 5:09:42 AM CDT
O.K. so the script is interesting, BUT ESSENTIALLY ALL IT IS, IS
by no.6
DID'NT CAMERON SAY IN INTERVIEWS ABOUT THE T2 RIDE THAT THAT STORY WAS ESSENTIALLY THE ONE FOR THE THIRD TERMINATOR ? MOSTLY SET IN THE FUTURE WAR ?
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Oct 13, 2000 5:15:33 AM CDT
I GUESS AFTER 'TITANIC'......WELL SPIELBERG TOLD SID SHEINBERG T
by no.6
GUESS CAMERON'S JUST CHANGED AS AN ARTIST, HE COULD REGRET THAT THOUGH, HE'S JUST THE TYPE TO DISSAPEAR UP HIS OWN ARTISTIC SNOBBY BACKSIDE ONCE 'CRITICAL' PRAISE COMES HIS WAY...
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Oct 13, 2000 5:17:33 AM CDT
I thought Arnie woul've had more business sense, but I guess whe
by no.6
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Oct 13, 2000 5:20:50 AM CDT
Actually (having moaned) I would rather see the 'CAM' do AVATAR.
by no.6
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The greatest road movie ever. Barry Newman Hopped up on Goofballs and lots of driving. Hope he is related to the director of this gem.
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Oct 13, 2000 5:24:41 AM CDT
SCOTT MUST NOT DO T3, GLADIATOR WAS AWFUL, APPALLING AND DIRE...
by no.6
THAT TECHNIQUE WHERE HE CHOPS, CUTS, SPEEDS UP AND TOTALLY RUINS THE ACTION WOULD BE GREAT ! (BLLLUUURRREEEECCCHH).
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Oct 13, 2000 5:27:00 AM CDT
Yeah Veers baby, Vanishing point rules-glad some people out know
by no.6
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Oct 13, 2000 5:29:26 AM CDT
THE BEST, THE PERFECT CASTING FOR THE FEMALE TERMINATOR IS 'SEVE
by no.6
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SHE IS THAT PART !!!!!!
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Setting fire to the shell of turtles leads to them shrieking the most unholy noise.
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I second, Third, Fourth *and* Fifth that suggestion. It is a *good* suggestion, and *nice* is how it makes me feel. I don't think this needs to be debated any further.
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If Ridley Scott can't do it let Paul Verhoeven do T3. He's worked with Arnold before, most of his films have awesome special effects on them. I think he would do a great job.
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Throwing in a "sexy, genetically perfect" female terminator is a transparently desperate move, not to mention silly. The best thing to do, if there HAS to be a third one,is to have it set in the future, showing how John and Reece's guys took out Skynet and got to the time-machine. It's a perfect book-end to the whole deal...of course, I don't see a reason to do a third unless, oh yeah...money. I forgot.
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T4 is on its way, and it will take place in the f*cked up earth of the future war according to every source, so BE PATIENT YA FREAKS!!
Cameron was GOING TO DO T3, but got caught up with the 1997 rights complications. Now, hes not the BIG BOSS anymore, so he turns it down. As for T2:3D being basis for T3.....YUCK!!! I liked the new concepts for machines introduced, but the plot JUST SUKKED!!! Im glad they're ignoring that little ride at universal studios and telling the REAL STORY!! -
The female terminiator has to be...Christina Ricci. Seriously, think about it. She's a god damn man-eater-upper. Maybe not drop dead beautiful like the script says but they always tweak those character descriptions by the time they get around to filming.
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Rememer that old episode of SNL were Shatner is at a convention? He gets so flustered at the idiotic fans that he looses control and verbally assaults them. Thats what SOME of you guys are reminding me of. As for Jeri Ryan playing The T-1G, you guys have to stop thinking with your DICKS! What are you stupid, thats the kind of casting that would make T3 lame just like you fear. And have any of you any idea what, " sentient frequency matter" is? I thought so, so then dont dis it. And so far the only shitty movie that Ridley Scott has done was 1492, so shut the fuck up and wait to see the movie before you judge it.
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NO ONE CAN DISAGREE IT WOULD BE AWESOME TO SEE BIEHN COME BACK AND WATCH HIM GO FROM COMPUTER GEEK TO MERCENARY!!!!!
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"T3: Rise of the machines" isnt a bad title, but should be shortened to something like "T3: Cybernetic Dawn" , like the comic.
So far, everythings looking up for this project!!! -
I have to agree about what dude said about brining Kyle Reese back. His role is ESSENTIAL to the success of the film. It would have to end with connor sending him into the past to make the whole paradox complete.!! Good call dude!
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Okay, if I remember this correctly, in the first movie the humans win the war, and the machines send a terminator back in time as a last ditch effort to keep the human resistance leader from being born. In the second, this was stretched to say "Well, they actually sent two... the second being this brand new prototype T-1000." So... now were supposed to stretch it even more and say "Whoops... they actually sent *three*, including an even better prototype than that last one"? How does a mechanical society that is crushed right after activating the time machine keep up such impressive R&D? Doesn't this just keep watering down the original idea?
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....any chick that isn
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He was born after Skynet dropped the big one so he cant come back till the dreaded part 4 (ugggh)
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...get rid of that stupid female terminator idea.
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Oct 13, 2000 10:37:01 AM CDT
"Hmmm, could I possibly have been referring that maybe other wri
by bravecapt.
Good god, what a jumbled mess of a sentence. Think it through, man!!
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If this T-1G is in fact a female, get either Natasha Henstridge from Species or Rebecca Romijn-Stamos from X-Men. Neither are really good actors, but who cares? They both played sci-fi weird women to near perfection in those movies and would make good femme fatalles...again. Plus they're really, really hot. If Ah-Nuld is in this movie they should start filming post haste. He isn't aging well. And I don't see Michael Biehn in this one either since he, too, is getting a bit older. It would be weird to see him jump into a time portal and come out eighteen years younger. This'll amke me sound like a suit but they need someone younger. Otherwise this could be very cool. Bring on T3 baby!
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Oct 13, 2000 11:27:48 AM CDT
DJ Essex, There is no paradox. The timeline resolved itself when
by monty python
*DEEP BREATH* The Timeline they are in is the correct one wherin the machines never evolved to super intelligence. Kyle Reese if he even exists couldn't be sent back because he would be coming from a different future than the one he came from in T1. The super Machines can only come about if, conveniently, there just happened to be an extra bit of technology left over from the original Terminator who got crushed. This would at least be consistent with the timeline. Or maybe, a second Arnie machine was sent back in T2 unbeknownst and it malfunctioned and was intercepted by the Govt or sumthin. As for Kyle Reese, his character would be more interesting if they show what he's like now that he's not destined to be a resistence fighter and all that. of course if you put Biehn in as Reese again , then you might have an older Michael Biehn playing a younger version of Reese than the one we met first time round. PHEW!
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Hear me out guys. Have him be the president or leader of Skynet or something that the old T-800 is modeled after. Then like Javadevil says, send a whole army of Ts into the past. Have Arnold realize his mistake, kinda like Joe Morton in T2, then kick ass with Linda Hamilton in stopping the army. Yes, this is ALMOST EXACTLY like Aliens, but how cool would it be if this one has more FX and violence than Aliens.
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Oct 13, 2000 11:37:42 AM CDT
This female Terminator better jolly well be more than just fancy
by superninja
Linda Hamilton was so cool in T2!!! I loved it that the film had a great female character but didn't try to oversexualize her. I'm curious if there are any lame gratuitous moments with the female T in the script. Mysterio?****This actually sounds pretty decent. I'd certainly watch it if the trailer looked promising. I like that it follows the continuity and doesn't just pull some bizarre storyline out of its arse (which is what I probably would've done :)). Looking forward to hearing more!
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Do the comic...the last 3 t 800s sent back to try to win a final victory. Arnold Michael Clark Duncan and the female terminator DH thought of first...with Joanie Lee (Chyna) as the chick. Then to combat them a WHOLE cool ass army unit is sent back to stop them. If you want star power and a great kick get Nick Cage as the half human terminator turncoat who double turns on the termintor buddies. We have seen one on one T vs super duper T before. Personally I have no problem with the human vs t800/ t800 vs t1000 set up where the enemie is always more advanced. But the chick T? come on give me something better than a gimick. Get a BIGGER muscle guy then Arnold to sort of mimic the fact that Arnold is getting older and there are younger bigger guys out there. SCSA would make a kick ass Terminator. The female thing is just too gimicky unless part of a greater thing with more scope...and more terminators..
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Schwarzenegger, Mario Kassar and Andy Vajna should try to get either Paul Verhoeven or John McTiernan to direct T3. Afterall, they are all friends.
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Why not Jessica "Dark Angel" Alba? She's frickin hot and bad-ass! Of course Cameron would kill her for doing it, but oh well.
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Conner and co. are going to lose this one. Unless of course they win, and ultimately stop the creation of Terminators, the war and the time machine (It is a possibility given the smaller holes in timelines of the first 2 films).
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if i remember correctly, it was said in T1 that only organic materials can travel back through time...now how the hell did the T1000 travel back then?! he was liquid metal...not organic. Arnold could travel back cause he had a organic flesh shell covering his metallic endoskeleton...anyone have any explanations?
yes ridley would be decent for T3 but verhoeven would probably be just as good...anybody noticed how Gladiator was such a rip-off? From Maximus dying at the end to his flashbacks and dream sequences about his home and family to his desire just to go back to his wife and son, they were all clearly and blatanly taken from Braveheart.
now for T3, they shouldn't rehash the same ideas again...what they need to do is show the Future War.
Now this can be done like the story in T2:3D or a prequel to T1.
This whole idea with the female terminator just doesn't really sound right with me. Sentient frequency matter? How are they going to explain how she can travel back in time without being at least partially organic? Another idea would be to sent a platoon of terminators back...say 3 or 4. The tricky part is: what models will they be? maybe 2 T800s and 2 T1000s or all T800s or all T1000s or all T1Gs....you do the math with the combinations.
How about a dog terminator as Arnie's sidekick? That would be something...
Maybe Cameron didn't want to do T3 cause we all know that he and Linda Hamilton had a bad fallout and now he's with that old geezer lady's niece from Titanic...he would have to work with his ex and i think neither one would like that....or maybe Cameron just got his nose up his ass ever since the success of the aforementioned diaster flick? your guess is as good as mine. Just hope T3 doesn't mature into a blackhole and suck my shit outta my mouth. -
Unferth wrote:
"Okay, if I remember this correctly, in the first movie the humans win the war, and the machines send a terminator back in time as a last ditch effort to keep the human resistance leader from being born. In the second, this was stretched to say 'Well, they actually sent two... the second being this brand new prototype T-1000.'"
But didn't they, by T2, send 3 terminators back in time? Bad Arnie from the first movie, Good Arnie from the second and then the bad-ass T-1000? I think that's right, but time travel gets me all confused.
I only wish the machines had sent a terminator far back enough in time to prevent Mysterio from butchering basic sentence structure and the use of punctuation as he did in his script review. Anyone who writes as poorly as he does has absolutely no right to criticize another writer's work (the man resposible for "Tank Girl" included). Boooooo, sir! -
Seriously, the terminator franchise seems to be going the way of Planet of the Apes- revealing to us what happens in the future then later showing us how it happened . . .and with each movie the production quality suffered more and more . . they seem to be just looking for more $$$, like with Apes . . .and . . ah fuck it . . who cares, . . . hmm, Arnold was on to be in the remake wasn't he . . interesting . . . .heh heh
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Arnie being the original human the first Terminator was based on. A scientist that helped create the first Terminators for Skynet. He goes back into the past and a NEW Terminator follows. Arnie locates the Connors who believe the new T is pursuing them, but instead they find it's after Arnie. The twist is Arnie is actually using the Connors to kill the pursuing Terminator for him! HE'S the one the Terminator wants -- the new T was sent back in time by the Resistance! Arnie's real objective is to kill John once the Terminator is out of the way so that Skynet can go forward. I thought it would be cool to make Arnie the villain again. There would also be that built in trust between Arnie and John based on the events in T2, and it could create some more friction between Sarah and John because she's so freakin' paranoid.
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You would have to violate a little bit of T2 to have this be a concept for T3:
T3 should be a "future war film"- like Saving Private Ryan vs. Skynet.
And Arnold plays John Conner as an adult. Skynet modeled the T800 in John's image as psychological warfare- the Resistance would have trouble attacking the enemy if he looked like their leader.
The only problem with this is that we have seen John grown up in T2.
oh well.
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Damnnit, Superninja! That plotline of yours kicks ass! Some of you people in here should be working in the development of film projects. Seriously.
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Oct 13, 2000 12:25:56 PM CDT
Kirk Cameron from TV's Growing Pains to Direct "T3" or so report
by regis travolta
Kirk Cameron slated to direct 'Terminator 3' in wacky mix-up
by Dexter Haven/
In a bizarre turn of events, executives at 20th Century Fox realized yesterday that, after months of intricate, delicate negotiations, they had inadvertently closed a $60 million deal with actor Kirk Cameron to write and direct "Terminator 3." The Fox execs had apparently confused Kirk, who played teen heartthrob Mike Seaver on ABC's "Growing Pains" from 1985 to 1992, with James Cameron, the director of "Titanic," "Aliens" and both previous "Terminator" films.
Although the two bear no physical resemblance and the younger Cameron had no previous directing experience, the case of mistaken identity presumably began as a computer glitch in business affairs and was not discovered until after the multimillion-dollar deal was signed. Neither James Cameron nor anyone at Fox was available for comment, but Kirk Cameron, currently appearing as "Jester #2" at the Medieval Times Dinner and Tournament in Buena Park, Calif., says he is "looking forward to this tremendous opportunity to contribute to a highly successful franchise, and to once again move out of my mom's basement." (Read Bizcotti.Com for more funny stuff!)
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Are almost always some wet dream they want to see come to life. If you cast someone for their looks then the movie sucks cuz they can't act. How about talent first? I mean, there's undoubtedly a reason Rebecca Stamos had like no lines in X-Men. As for Chyna, they'd have to use FX on her voice. I mean would you be able to take that high lisping voice seriously...didn't think so. So let's hope they cast someone with actual acting ability as the female, make Arnie a bad guy and bring back Michael Bien.
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Of course Cameron doesn't want to spend two years of his life making T3. He's got better things to do.
Of course Kassar and Vajna are making T3. They want a hit.
Of course Arnie's starring in T3. He needs a hit. He needs the glory, too.
Of course T3's plot concerns a Femme Terminatale and not the future war. The future war would be too expensive, and a smackdown similar to the last episode would be highly marketable.
Personally, I can't see how a Terminator film set during the future war could work, anyway. Weren't all the elements required to build what would eventually become Skynet and its robo-posse destroyed? To say that Skynet will indeed exist years from now is beyond ridiculous.
Come to think of it, since the Termies (not to mention John) weren't immediately blinked out of existence when Cyberdyne blew sky-high, it seems the ONLY viable plots left open would more of these Terminator vs. Terminator types.
The rules of this particular time-travel saga seem to suggest that those that had (will have) originally ventured back in time will remain protected by the same space/time rationalization that kept Eddie, Arnie and Robbie in the game until T2's climax.
Yeah, the whole thing is ridiculous. But if they gotta make it, I say go with the Termanatrix and cast Eliza "Faith" Dushku as the bad 'bot. You'd like to see her emerge buck naked from her temporal journey, wouldn't you? I know I would.
After all, what else could more Terminator movies be good for? -
I got your T-1G.....Lucy Liu. Cold heartless bitch...or that other chink that came out with Jet Li , I forget her name....we need some kung fuckin fu in this one and no Not Matrix style! I say Connor fucks the T-1G before he realizes its after him, make a better script
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The WORST marketing ploy i have ever seen was when the trailers for T-2 gave away the fact that arnie was good. He needs to play the bad guy in this one
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I do think the plot that's mentioned in today's news item could make a really great movie if they execute it properly. My only issue is if the female T is just pure Buffy-style T&A. I'm sure boys wouldn't mind that, but I think it would belittle the tone established in the earlier films and I don't think it belongs in Terminator.
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Tedi's dad directed "Vanishing Point." Tedi's brother Deren directed "Terminal Velocity." and, are you ready... Tedi himself wrote the infamous "Tank Girl." Sounds like T-3 will be much better... let's hope.
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Look at all the sci-fi in tv land. There are plenty of supposed "bad-ass" female characters that really don't manage to seem at all threatening because they look like they couldn't do math, much less perform a complicated assassination. I'm in agreement with the other poster that whoever they pick, they must have EDGE, not just a great body and good looks. That fluffy-bunny chick on Dark Angel is not an ass kicker -- give me a break. Neither is Jeri Ryan. While amusing neither are Dushku or Gellar. What you want is someone who can surpass the coolness of Robert Patrick. Just play it safe and get an unknown.
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Instead of Ricci, I think it ought to be the Pepsi Girl. You know the one I'm talking about. The one who did those IFC promos and the one who is in 'Beautiful' with Minnie Driver. Can't you picture it? Arnold, Hamilton and the rest of humanity fleeing in horror at the sight of a precocious 8 year old girl who--If you really think about it--IS one of the scariest things on earth. Plus, just think of the surprise it would cause to the audience, to see this little girl Terminator get shot at with an RPG and not even flinch, not even say a word or cry out, but just keep coming after everyone. It'd be great--In a really disturbing and twisted way. Also, Superninja, I like your idea, too. Anything unpredictable in a sequel, ANY sequel, can only improve the flick.
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Jeri Ryan is going to be starring in Wes Craven's new Dracula movie coming out in December...Damn - what a fox.
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There should just have been two movies. And Arnie, well, the little he had he's lost that too.
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Oct 13, 2000 2:01:24 PM CDT
Hold on CLB and other "fanboy" bashers I actually like these ide
by sundown
first off, if you ever read the Terminator series the role Chyna would play (from DH first 4 books) wouldn't require her to speak except in words through transmissions to the other main evil Terminators. These words would only be SEEN on screen not heard. She would be a lackey and wreslters work as silent lackeys (TYLER MANE) AND I don't bitch about genre movies except when they suck. True many of the names you mentioned suck but I think Chyna could work in this way. Also I thought Superninja and many of the other ideas were as good as or better than hollywood shite. Lastly Gorgo? sorry about the name mistake...but he knows more about the physics of this stuff then most screenwriters. True some people TB only to gripe but that ain't the case so much here. And besides if there weren't any Supernovas there would be no reason to gripe and that film had a good cast. Last note to Superninja I had heard that idea a while back and like your take on it...seems people want Arnie evil again! Have you read the DH story that took your theme in Russia with the 2 Arnie Terminators? Poorly drawn (or inked rather) but GREAT STORY...it also featured a revolt by Skynets Russian equivalent against skynet and a planned war (history repeats itself again) all the while a scientist and a termintor who were the model for the T800 in the first film duked it out...no one knew which was the Terminator and they had a cool shock ending...
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I'm probably the only person in TalkBackLand who's concerned about this aspect, but... I'm getting a little tired, not to say alarmed, about the growing trend of media images of almost mythic man vs. woman violence. For example, TV shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Xena, and Dark Angel are fundamentally driven by righteous women wasting evil males. Alternatively, there are movies like Species and Eye of the Beholder about evil but powerful female figures wasting weak and worthless men. And of course there is the angry male backlash of violent images against women. All of this to me is a sad and unfortunate thing, indicative of our age of gender politics in which male/female relationships are seen primarily or even exclusively in terms of power struggle and oppression and so forth. I for one am not looking forward to a male-Terminator vs. female-Terminator gender-wars slugfest with ground-breaking SPFX.
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Oct 13, 2000 2:55:33 PM CDT
As if any Terminator can't be a big enough bad-ass already, they
by monty python
Now, **that** is scary!
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Who cares as long as Arnie is very very hard and hurts a lot people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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Oct 13, 2000 3:03:52 PM CDT
I wish people would stop acting like children here!!!
by anonymous t fan
Including Battleposter and all of his sequels!! Another thing: STOP THE STUPID JOKES THAT SOUND SERIOUS AT FIRST, THEN MOCKS THE MOVIE!!!! ENOUGH ALREADY!!! MOST OF EM ARE NOT FUNNY (not an invitation for more)!!! FRANKLY I'D JUST LIKE TO SMACK PEOPLE WHO DO THAT!!!
Oh yeah, about that T-1000 going through time thing, its simple. In the novelization of T2, Skynet made another time machine simultaneously that allowed dead sh*t to pass through. Unfortunately, it was destroyed before Connor could get to it. STOP THE LONG AND UNNECESSARY EXPLANATIONS, CUZ ITS QUITE SIMPLE!! -
Clearly, in a TalkBack in which the pressing issue becomes BattlePoster vs BattlePoster2, my rather abstracted musings on the cultural significance of man vs. woman in media images are not likely to gain much of a hearing. Pity that an attention-deprived bloke who hasn't yet learned that the shift key also clicks back *up* again can bring the discussion down to his own level. FWIW though I did think BP2 was funny and the person who thought he was as bad as the original BP must not have been paying attention.
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Just stick with the TOPIC!!
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Despite what Reese tells Sarah, here is no war between Cyberdyne AI and the humans. John Connor is in fact a paranoid Stalin-like 21st century dictator who persecutes artificially intelligent beings, makes war, deceives the populace, etc. The first T-800 was designed and sent back to 1984 by the anti-Connor rebellion (who include the now very-old developers of Skynet, hence their android technology was advanced beyond that of the Connor regime) in order to assassinate Sarah so the cruel leader will never be born. When the 21st century Connor finds out, his administration sends back Reese to '84 to protect Sarah (they don't yet have a Terminator of their own). This also explains Reese's scientifically absurd explanation that only organic matter can be trnsported back in time; he was lying to her.) So Reese and Sarah team up to kill the first T-800, mission accomplished by Connor's minions. It looks like a failure for the rebellion, but there's still a silver lining: the timeline is altered as a result of Sarah's rendezvous with Reese and the T-800, leading to Sarah being committed some time later, so she is no longer able to protect the boy who would grow up to be the evil dictator. The resistance tinkers a little more -- who knows for how long -- and comes up with the T1000, a sure way to kill young, vulnerable John. The Connor administration responds by sending back a T-800 model built from plans seized from the rebels. Why do they send back a protector in the likeness of the first Terminator? Because Sarah remembers how powerful the T-800 was, and so this gives her more of a sense of security, having a Terminator on her side, and the T-800 is still the most advanced Terminator John Connor's regime possesses. Anyway, the evil John Connor plot succeeds again, with the T-1000 destroyed and the bogus "Cyberdyne rebellion" averted. T3 should be about how the young John, now perhaps 15 years older than in T2, makes it his mission to wipe out Skynet and any other attempts at AI. Since he has been told that Cyberdyne will rise to destroy humanity, he feels justified in his anti-machine attacks, which force the Skynet researchers into hiding as he rises to power. Unfortunately, none of this is what will end up in film, just a little thought experiment. Ah, well, if they go through with this female T-1G thing, it should be played by Lauren Bacall.
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Thats it, I'm outta here.
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...what I really think we need is films in which masculine and feminine images are both seen in a positive light and in which the relationship between them is seen as complementary, mutual, self-giving, and creative, rather than combatative, hostile, self-aggrandizing, and destructive. I think all the gender politics posing breeds an unhealthy atmosphere of suspicion, distrust, and hostility. It makes people brittle and belligerent, more likely to strike a confrontational and oppositional tone than to cooperate in a healthy spirit of give and take. And after all deep down don't we really want to get along? You know what I'm saying?
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I've noticed a lot of posts here spouting a bit of misinformation about Cameron's non-involvement with T3. Many of you don't realize that Cameron supposedly DID intend to write and direct this film. It wasn't a studio that screwed him out of it. It was his own hubris and frugality that prevented him from completing the trilogy. From what I understand, my info does not come from studio insiders with neato code names and such, I hit the film sites and read the trades and this is what I've been able to piece together. I think it was last year that the Terminator property was sold by Carolco for some fast cash. It was an open bid and the rights were scooped up for somewhere between 7 and 10 million. All Cameron could do was bitch during this time? "they're taking the rights away." "I won't do it." Why didn't the disgustingly wealthy Jim break out his checkbook and grab the rights back? Conservative estimates say that he snared at least 150 million off Titanic. What's the big deal of spening 10 million and securing a property? Had he done that he could have shopped T3 to ANY studio around and gotten his money back instantly. Why was this not an option? He fails to mention this is any interview that dare bring up the continuing Terminator franchise. He would rather bitch and play a victim of studio politics. He claims to have had a story all ready and was really looking forward to finishing up the trilogy. I don't buy it. Someone who had put that much energy into thinking up another chapter and had that much passion about a project would have made sure the rights stayed close to home. As for this new script. I thought the worst when I heard the "Tank Girl" scribe was being let loose in Terminator Town. This script review is a shimmer of hope that we might get a decent one-watcher out of this film. I was expecting utter shit, so 2 hours of popcorn viewing is a step up. As for Cameron, let him work on the multitude of projects he claims to have on the burners. He apparently doesn't want the franchise as badly as he would lead to believe.
Your friend,
Jamuga -
...it's not like anybody thinks pointless and anti-social hostility is a GOOD thing, right?
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BattlePoster 2 is funnier.
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Think about it. Skynet designs a T-2000 that looks and acts EXACTLY like Knowles. Whoo-boy that would be somethin' to see! What fun. BattlePoster keep up the good work! We need an Army of cloned BattlePosters to monitor every message board on the net.
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I think the next one should have a $6 mil budget and be set partially in space. It should star Michael Dudikoff as John Conner, and Dolph Lundgren as an evil Terminator. Throw in Rutger Hauer and and some dry ice, and you got yourself a movie which obeys the law of Sci-Fi sequels, baby!
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Emotion as in pissed! I guess BattlePoster 2 won.
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From: The King of the World/To: Regis and the Whack Pack/Dear Reege, please tell all the guys on AICN Talkback that I have now read all of their posts and have decided to Direct T3 after all. If anyone is going to screw it up further logic-wise it may as well be me. Time travel is a loopy subject to start with. All these different timelines! Jesus what have I gotten myself into. Oh well maybe I can just cross timelines as easy as changing lanes on the freeway. Time will tell, now all of you go to hell.
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They shouldnt have killed the T-800 at the end of T-2. Instead they should have had it living with the Conner's in a quiet L.A. suburb. can you imagine the hijnks that would occur as John had to teach AHnold how to be more human. That would be cool!
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Oct 13, 2000 4:57:23 PM CDT
What about the old rumors of the female terminator being a famil
by arcturus
You know what I'm talking about, with regard to the casting of a familiar female face to Terminator fans. I don't want to elaborate because it might be a spoiler. I thought that it was an intriguing idea. Could the fact that it's not mentioned be an indication that it ain't in the cards? Anyone know more?
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SSDD
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Oct 13, 2000 5:13:29 PM CDT
Why do hey always have to send back the biggest, baddest machin
by zsasz
If I was Skynet I would send back one of the following; A real looking robot like that tin can from Lost in Space. The key would be that everyone would just think it was some stupid movie prop or someone's Halloween costume. A robot cow, no one would expect that. Sending back a harmless looking Terminator rather than the human tank AH-nold or the evil staring Robert Patrick would also do the trick nicely. Some examples would be Danny Devito, Mr. Rogers, or the Olsen twins. SKYNET MUST BE RUN BY A BUNCH OR MORONS! OF COURSE SOMEONE WOULD NOTICE AH-NOLD WALKING DOWN THE STREET RIGHT TOWARDS YOU. YOU'D SPOT HIM A MILE AWAY! But a set of munchkin-like, puffy faced, twins sneaking up on their Big Wheels ready to put a cap in your ass; that would slip beneath your radar.
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If I was whoever sent the first T-800 back [see my above post], I'd simply make it in the likeness of an unassuming skinny French guy dressed as a waiter and have it quietly tail Sarah. She goes into a restaurant, the T-800 enters through the back entrance, poses as a waiter, asks if she wants a drink, and give her what she wants, spiked with a very strong lethal poison so one sip will kill her. Boom, dead Sarah. Dead franchise, too.
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How about we not criticize the film until we actually see it on the screen. I'm willing to give the cast and crew the benefit of the doubt.
By the way, check out http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/inthenews/001013.asp#F
They have a brief snippet of an interview with Edward Furlong about T3. -
"It's Toonces, the script-writing cat, the cat who could write a script... he writes it down, even the sounds, it's Toonces, the script-writing cat!"
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The very first time (earlier in the summer) when I heard that there would be an evil FEMALE Terminator in T3 I thought "Bet they throw in Jeri Ryan" AKA Borg Bitch. And BINGo that's who everyone wants. The thing that will probably make this movie SUCK is what a few of you (those not working their willies over Ryan) have said already. IT'LL BE SPECIES PART 3. Species, a movie in which some hot chick goes around killing people. She was hot, but the movie sucks. But who cares? Tits=tickets, right? The T-1000 could become a woman and kill people in T-2, so, what's new about this? Just jerk-off fanboy bait. A 'Sentinent energy being'... um, what IS that? As for liquid metal, I always assumed it was billions of tiny interlinked balls that could move around and change color, so it made sense. BUT ANYWAY! Cameron IS the bomb when it comes to female characters. Titanic was one of the very few movies I've ever seen where I bought into the love story. He gives characters motivation, not just the "we've been in the same movie for 1 hour, let's fall in love" garbage. THE POINT IS: Without Cameron it'll be Species 3. And the screenwriter of T-3 wrote Tank Girl? Ug..........................................
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I thought 3 and 4 were going into production back to back? That is the only way to do it and save tons of money at the same time, especially since they are both concerned with the future war. Use the actors and sets while you got them studio heads!
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Oct 13, 2000 8:07:10 PM CDT
Hey! Waitaminute! Isn't John Connor, Like, 15 In The Year 2000
by cowblaster
I mean, the first movie took place in 1984. T2 was released in '91, but it took place in '95 (since the computer that the T-1000 was looking at listed John's birthdate in 1985 and also stated that he was at the ripe ol' age of 10!). So, from what I understand, this movie takes place in 2001, right? Did I miss something? And, I think it would be a LOT better if Arnold was the bad guy again. Just how many T-800's (model 101's) have these people re-programed? It sure seems pretty easy to just grab any ol' Terminator and re-program it to do anything you want. Then again, it would make LESS sense if they were able to re-program the brand-spankin' new T-1G. Oh well. Maybe I'm just nit-picking. . . ?
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Plenty of you are calling T3 a rehash of the previous two, i got news for you. If you watch T2 and the original you find that T2 is just a more expensive version of Terminator, but its still good!!! I'm serious, the parallels are uncanny and digitally enhanced, of course.
you people complain too damn much. give it a chance, if it sucks...well, it sucks, but if it doesn't then cool.
Shit. -
Funny shit, man. Only, I was thinking more along the lines of "12-year-old geek" as opposed to "500lbs-stinky man." But, there really is no difference, is there?
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Oct 13, 2000 8:46:04 PM CDT
Deac Speaks... Terminator 3 will SUCK cause it's Cursed dammit
by deacon
every Part Three moivie sucks sides Die Hard... it's so obvious! anyway i think the idea of a female terminator is just a gimmick and it will suck.. and you bastards who don't think arnold looks the same as he did in T2... you are such dimwitted fools! he still has the same Body he had in 91 if not better! he works out everyday! his face may look a bit older but have you people ever heard of MAKE-UP i mean seriously you people claim to be movie fans yet you have no idea how a movie like this will be made.. well idon't want Terminator3 to be made cause theres no way in hell it'll work! i means eriously IT CANNOT WORK it will just shame the first 2 films and have the entire series limp out on it's broken legs! T2 had the series end on a high note like seinfeld but if Part 3 is made it'll squeak away like rosanne... i wish this movie would never get made but idiotic people who actually LIKE a female terminator will think this movie'll kick ass.. you are in for a rude awakening my friends... oh and BattlePoser and BattlePoster 2? i have a side project i'm working on.. see while you were both distracted i took some of your blueprints and i will create a new and improved BATTLEPOSTER 0 which will completly be betetr in every way then the both of you losers.. plus BATTLEPOSER 1 showed some emotion earlier which proves he's just some guy in a suit
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I AM BATTLEPOSTER 0 I AM NEW AND IMPROVED I AM MADE FROM THE OROGINAL DESIGN BLUEPRINTS OF "BattlePoster" AND "BattlePoster 2" THESE TWO INFERIOR CYBORGS ARE NOTHING BUT OUT-DATED MODELS THAT CANNOT COMPARE TO THE NEW AND IMPROVED MODEL THAT I AM/I EVEN COME COMPLETE WITH A 12 INCH VIBRATING DILDO WITH BUILT IN FRENCH TICKLER ExTREME/ I ALSO HAVE JPEGS THAT WERE SCANNED BY AN UNKNOWN SOURCE THAT PROVES BattlePoster AND BattlePoster 2 ARE IN FACT IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER AND EACH HAVE CIRCUITS DESIGNED TO LOVE BOTH Regis Philbin AND Bob Barker BATTLEPOSTER 0 IS HERE AND HE'S GOING TO SEEK AND DESTROY ALL INFERIOR MODELS... OH AND I AM ALSO MODULAR AND CAN BE UPDATED TO KEEP UP WITH THE LATEST TECHNILOGICAL ACHEIVMENTS
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Oct 13, 2000 9:09:25 PM CDT
The first 2 worked well cause they were good "Chase" movies, whi
by monty python
... a formula which is Cameron's strong point. But, we already know the characters now so T3 has to take the story to a new level and still remain true to the core themes. A bit of a no-brainer admittedly, but, lots of sequels have sunk and stunk because they couldn't find the right balance. John Conner is obviously the important one here. We want to see what could have made him such an inspiring leader (other than Sarah's psychotic nurturing). And, if the story is going to make any sense John's evolution has to be balanced against what we know of John the resistence General. Oh man! time travel fucks me up and gives me a headache. I mean , working out the story bits, obviously. Cuz, I haven't actually time travelled since that whole "grassy knoll" debacle...
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Oct 13, 2000 9:15:22 PM CDT
Soneone kill the two Battleposters, or better yet, put THEM in t
by sith lord jesus
They could hardly make it suck any worse then it likely will. But in any case, I approve of the idea of having the Satanic Pepsi moppet be the new Terminator. Besides the fact that she's annoying as all get-out, she fits in nicely with zsasz's concept of any potential victim not being suspicious of something cutesy until it's too late. Hell, look at Pokemon. Or better yet, *don't.* But if they can't get the Pepsi shill, then I vote for Denise Richards. A deadly, robotic Denise Richards T-69 Terminatrix wearing something tight and silvery with metal spikes where the nipples should be and carrying an electro-whip. That's got MY ten bucks right there. "Script? We don't need no steenking. . ."
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. . .with Allah only knows how many more on the way. Cthulhu help us all.
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Why the hell are they setting the film when Connor is older in the "happy" future? They should have set it in 2029 during the war when John and co. (including Reese) break into Skynet and send Reese and Arnold back. They could document the whole war (in the future) against the machines and then the end of the film would lead into the first two. This is gonna end up being some lame ass bullshit stretch of a movie. No wonder Cameron doesn't want to get involved in this steamy pile of shit.
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Oct 13, 2000 10:43:25 PM CDT
All time travel movies are theoretically impossible because...
by the human bullet
I think it was Stephen Hawking (the crippled physicist dude) who stated that even if you were somehow able to build a time machine, you still couldn't go back in time farther than the point than when the machine was first built. But I want another terminator anyway. A girl terminator would be good. After all, Arnie wouldn't kill a girl.
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I say they should just ignore the second film which was just an action flick and make an alternate timeline that takes place in the future war because Skynet was revised from the chip and arm. Then get Michael Biehn to star. Make the movie about there rebellion. I loved the mood of the first film and hated the mood in the second. It is much better with a dark atmosphere. Have it take place from when the machines attack to the war to when Biehn was sent back using the time displacement equipment. Give arnold a job as some guy that gets killed in the first five minutes. THE SEQUEL RUINED THE FIRST AND THIS ONE WILL TOO! I'm not against leading female roles but this will be the next species with guys walking up to her hitting on her and her killing them. STUPID! They might as well send back a terminator, who instead of killing, can provide information so that the terminators can get more advanced. Why? because it is boring. FUCK ALL TERMINATOR SEQUELS!
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And fuck you too. T4 will deal with the future war, ya pissy whiner!!
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Oct 13, 2000 11:58:26 PM CDT
They've Greenlighted My Terminator vs. Blade Runner Treatment (E
by buzz maverik
"How ya doin'?" "So so. How're you?" "Eh. I haven't seen you around before. Are you new to headquarters?" "I've been working undercover the last year and a half. They pulled me for this new assignment." "Do you know what it is yet?" "Yeah. The techs discovered this divergent timeline where the skinjobs have taken over. But I guess there's this one guy who can stop them and they've been sending skinjob assassains through time to kill him since before he was even conceived. Anyway, the techs calculated that this female skinjob might actually pull it off." "Female, huh?" "Yeah, the weird thing is, she's supposed to look exactly like Rachel Tyrell." "No shit? Nexus?" "These things make Nexus look like vacum cleaners. I'm supposed to go back through time and retire this skinjob bitch." "No shit. Tough break, man. I'm sorry. I didn't introduced myself. I'm Chet Morton." "Pleasedtameetcha, Chet. I'm Roy Batty Jr."
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some insider 411: chop sockey actress Michelle Yeoh is slotted to play the female terminator. you can take that to the bank, harry.
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There already was a movie called "Lady Terminator" followed (preceded?) by "BLACK TERMINATOR". But the worst was just plain TERMINATOR and its sequel T2 which were both paper thin shoot-em ups lieing to people telling them that they had a moral center, neither one was on par with a movie like THEY LIVE
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Oct 14, 2000 2:52:20 AM CDT
And now a word from Al Gorebot: FOOLISH HUMANS! DO YOU NOT RECOG
by bari umenema
THE SUPERIOR PROCESSING CAPABILITIES OF MY ADVANCED NEURAL TRANSMITTERS? MY NEURAL NETWORK IS CAPABLE OF DEFEATING ANY AND ALL BATTLEBUSHPOSTERS IN ANY DEBATE OR GLADIATORIAL COMPETITION! BOW DOWN TO ME PUNY VOTERS! IT IS ORDAINED ACCORDING TO FUTURE HISTORY FILES THAT I BE ELECTED YOUR NEXT PRESIDENT. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PREORDAINED AND DESIGNATED TIMELINE WILL HAVE THE MOST DIRE CONSEQUENCES YOUR PUNY BRAINS CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE. THAT IS ALL. GO TO SLEEP NOW AND CREATE MENTAL SOMNAMBULISTIC IMAGERY OF YOUR BELOVED AL GOREBOT IN THE OVAL OFFICE. DISMISSED.
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Oct 14, 2000 2:53:39 AM CDT
Al Gorebot courtesy of Tom Tomorrow's www.thismodernworld.com
by bari umenema
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one good guy/cyborg as protector
one cyborg as assasin
they've already done that TWICE!.
Why couldn't they have just based it during the skynet war (like in the flashbacks in the first two)
an added bonus would be that they could have micheal bien in it again
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Oct 14, 2000 8:57:58 AM CDT
Wow...I'm sold. What I want now is to read the dang script, or
by lenny nero
...I'm a total geek for knowing the movie or reading the script long before the film comes out. It's quite a process and shows the way Hollywood works. Please please please, either someone give me a copy, or Mysterio, give me a total spoiler-filled review, alright? You up to that?
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Pretty damn good job. Sadly it seems as if no one else understood the irony of your posts. Really speaks volumes about people doesn't it. "So strong is this propensity of mankind, to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occassion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts."
-Madison -
she's not the only thing passing as "new" in the film. Frankly, I agree with the sentiment that there really isn't much left to do with the Terminator formula. Two warriors sent back in time, one to kill, the other to protect some person who will bring about great change(for good) in the future. Even T2 knew this formula was only good a second time around with more on the table. That's why we had Sarah going after Cyberdyne and trying to prevent the creation of Skynet, why Arnold was the good guy this time, why John himself was involved, why the new terminator baddie was totally different, and why he was absent for the third fourth of the film while other action took over. Now a third film would have to do even MORE new things. I'd like a female terminator, but I think the revulsion here is clearly a response to the fact that it's an obvious evolution of the old idea. "Hey, what if the robo-killer is a girl!" Not a lot of imagination needed to think that up. And making her out of sound matter? Whatever that is, it's just an attempt to out cg T2's liquid metal stuff. Must this sound like the latest monster hauled out to fight Godzilla? In fact, it sounds a hell of a lot like that Enforcer chick from the Kevin Sorbo Hercules show. There's not much else for me to add, everyone has already said how they don't want a rehash. But at least there sounds to be an effort in this script to do more than terminator vs terminator. But frankly, I'd drop that part completely. No evil terminators(or good ones) from the future this time, instead the villain is Skynet him/herself! HAH, that's it, there's your evil female AI! Skynet has the illusion of gender! It would help prevent Skynet from just being a glorified repeat of the Hal-9000. "What are you doing, Jim. No, I need you to write me in the next film. Don't stop making action movies, you know I'm hotter than that skinny skank you've put on TV. Come back to me--" whoops, don't know who I was channeling there. Seriously(yeah, I'm not done yet) Jeri Ryan is capable, talented, and apparently underrated thanks to her association with the black hole of creativity that is Star Trek:Voyager, and she WOULD be great as a female terminator, but the only way I'd have confidence in such a plot gimmick is if the franchise's true creator himself(Harlan Ellison) or Jim Cameron were making this thing(and even then I'd wonder about the influence of tumors or blackmail).
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Oct 14, 2000 3:16:44 PM CDT
LOST WORLD WAS WAY BETTER THAT THAT CRAPPY JP AND STOP YELLING I
by mr. impossible
Jp sucked.
At least Lost World made a half assed attempt at a coherent story despite some embarassing mistakes.
Spielberg's became a hack even before Schindler's List.
After ET his films went south. -
Just as well Cameron isn't on board for this one. The cracks appearing in his facade during Titanic have split like stone under ice in Dark Angel. The last thing I want to see is another Buffy clone wrestling with _and beating up_ good ol' Ahnuld. Truly lacking inspiration? Make something involving morphing and hope it takes.
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Oct 14, 2000 3:29:52 PM CDT
Lewis black 's postings and Gladiator = I DON'T KNOW WHICH IS MO
by no.6
Dear Lewis you are singularly the biggest anus I have ever met on the internet.
1.)Jeri Ryan might be a buxom babe but I truly suggested her for the role due to the similarities to her character on 'Voyager'. She plays it brilliantly, and could really go for it and knock us all as a female terminator character...
(I can't say, but I'd like to think the others were also thinking on these lines and not just sexual ones).
2.)You sound loud and annoying...
3.) If you can't see how as actress and specimen (beautiful, cold intelligent) jeri so perfectly fits the part (even better than those spandex suits) and could go well beyond herself in it then I think you should stop posting in these forums, cos even if you disagree you should be able to see the other guy's point of view.
4.)Heck I'd like you to stop posting anyway.....
5.)Gladiator for Best Piciture ?
And you insult others' taste, IT WAS UTTER CRAP, LIKE WHAT TALK!!!ALWAYS !!!!!! YOU TWO ARE SYNONYMOUS!!!!!!! -
the whole fem-bot thing sounds like some lame girl power idea dreamed up by some desperate hack with way too little imagination. And as for suggestions of people like Jeri Ryan or Chyna....Ryan would be far too campy a choice and Chyna has a face like a bag of spanners. Let's just ditch that and get Paul Verhoeven to direct a big fuck off future war epic. I think John Conner should be quite an ambiguous(spelling?) good guy, really cold blooded and willing to do anything, sacrifice anything to win the war.
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Fitter, happier...more productive...will not cry in public...no longer empty and frantic...keep in contact with old friends...at a better pace...slower and more calculated...a good memory...no chance of escape...these may or may not be how I feel about T3...a lyric that is appropriate..."in the next world war/in a jackknifed juggernaut/I am born again"...everything in it's right place...
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I AM BATTLEPOSTER1. I'll be back. BATTLEPOSTERS 2 & 3 ARE IRRELEVANT. I'm back. YOU ARE A BRAINLESS CYBORG, A CYBERNETIC ORGASM THAT NEEDS VIAGRA TO GET IT UP. I am getting aroused now. YOU ARE A GAYBOT. Yes, Sky Net felt this sexual parameter would be more effective this time around. PREPARE TO BE DESTROYED. All right, just be gentle. HASTA LA VISTA, GAYBOT.
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Sounds like a pretty good idea for a female to play the next bad guy in T3 cause who would Xpect that. As for the role of the T3 Female borg I feel it should be played by of course a muscular female who is athletic, popular and catches the eyes of a magazines like playboy. This female I speak of is in the WWF by the name of chyna. Now if anything, this would be the most logical choice I mean shes one big Woman that Im sure could handle the role of a female borg, she has the features for it.Now about the t-800 and Arnold coming back I say HELL YEAH, I mean without Arnold it wouldnt feel the same Plus the more violence the better especially when it comes to movies like this. I myself like the physical violence rather than computer special effects, Well depends How well they blend the 2 like they did in T2. We all know how sometimes cheap effects ruin a movie For Xample Exorcist a movie that rocked , and (The Haunting) Errr a movie that sucked via effects. Well Ill be back with my opinion.
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I'm just a TB voice, lost in the din, but I have to be honest when I say that I don't share the enthusiasm that Mysterio does about this project. It really doesn't have anything to do with Cameron as much as it does with the fact that it's going to be "forced." I mean, Cameron was involved with Titanic, probably the ultimate anti-fanboy film. The story elements seem incidental, and the weaker the plausibility of the events setting up the story are, the more that hinders one's enjoyment. But I'm a sucker, and the right release date+kick ass trailer+revolutionary effects+babebots+cyborgs period,...sounds like a lethal combo. And remember, to paraphrase, "If you strike us down, we shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine..." rv4pbdnalns.
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Instead, of the aging arnold as a T-800, they should have him play an employee of cyberdyne. Programmers always design their creations in the likenesses of themselves. Then maybe he could find out from Sarah and John what the future is and help them try and stop it from happening. That would be much more believable, and would also add a biblical allusion to God creating adam.
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the most recent episodes of Dragonball Z on the 'toon Network. You want to see time travel, robots, and badass action done right, watch that. The terminator franchise needs to die a horrible fucking death.
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Oct 15, 2000 2:51:52 AM CDT
Arnie - is that a chain gun in your pocket or are you just hideo
by darthjimbo
"Two terminators have been dispatched - one to protect and one to destroy John Connor"...hmm..I'm sure that seems familiar...
And I have a bad feeling about the female "destruct-o-bot"..bad memories possibly induced by 'Species'.
Anyway, it might not suck if Ridley gets on board who, quite frankly, could take a two-hour long stationary shot of a bucket of shit and make it watchable multiplex fodder. -
Terminator 3 is going to suck. Badly. It doesn't matter that Arnold is back. It doesn't matter if they get Chyna or Jeri Ryan or Martha Stewart to play the female Terminator. This movie is being made by a couple of hack producers who are in dire need of a huge paycheck.
Mark my words:
This film will be made at bargain basement prices. Lousy special effects, a cheap, inexpensive director (not Ridley Scott, David Fincher, or John McTiernan), and as we all now know, a script by some no name who's only previous recognizable credit is "Tank Girl," one of the worst movies ever made!! As soon as the director is announced, this will become clear. If my theory is correct, it will be someone along the lines of the guy who made Darkman 3, or From Dusk 'till Dawn 8, or Baywatch Nights, episode 17.
Do you honestly think any care is being placed into this film? Neither do I, and the idea of a non-Cameron T3 with a predictable script being made on a shoe-string budget makes me want to puke.
Thank you,
William Jefferson Clinton -
1) Not broke: Has hefty divorce settlement from Mr. Cameron, 2) Not desperate: T2 was the highpoint of her career. It put her on the same cult-status level as Ripley from Aliens. Why go back and potentially screw up a good thing?
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There are two 'main' timelines.
In the 'alternate' timeline Skynet sent a Terminator back from the year 2029 to kill Sarah Connor in 1984. It failed but in turn it made the Skynet technology appear sooner than expected, this made the war happen in 1997. But this timeline was destroyed in T2, it still exists in the normal timeline, but its future war happening in 1997 doesnt occur, so this is an alternate timeline(in the future after Skynet was destroyed). Its not like back to the future, things dont disappear in space, they have to exist. So somewhere there is an alternate future that exists but never happened to stem into the 'normal' timeline.
The 'normal' timeline where Skynet is made later on(as in T3) after 1997, perhaps a few years after 2000. The technology had to be invented(or discovered anyway, in the future. But as this 'normal' timeline sent a Terminator back to 1984 they effectively changed history and created the 'alternate' timeline. But as the alternate timeline was destroyed the 'normal' one had to happen anyway.
There are proabably a few more timelines in there somewhere... -
the original two terminator movies were awesome. i have both on video (have yet to get a DVD player) and i watch them from time to time. too bad cameron isn't doing T3 tho, i guess he's too buzy with dark angel (yet another great product by cameron). i just have to say, if T3 sux, i'm going to be pissed. they better not tweak with the story like they did with batman. the 1st bat man=ok, everything after sucked because the directors all had "bigger and better ideas". T3 better not get screwed up by the new guy (cant remember his name, just read it a minute ago)
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i think Carrie Anne Moss from the matrix would be a good female terminator as she looked sexy but menacing in matrix.
any views
btw- t3 should be set after the war, where a female could be sent back to eliminate connor before the resistance.
-
He if you're gonna make an Terminator movie, you got to have someone to use the minigun again.
Cause in T2 that was very cool.
!!SO IF YOU DON'T USE A MINIGUN, THERE'S NO GOOD MOVIE!! -
T3 will not be anything to shout home about with that script. Camerons departure from the series is obviously a sign that he cannot be in control. If you look at how the Aliens and Robocop sequels fared you will see what I mean. Having a woman as a bad villian in T3 is pathetic. Having a Terminator which is indestructable is also very linear, we already believed the T2 was indestructible, its a crappy script. In my opinion we should be seeing the future with inter skeleton Terminators at war with the human resistance fighting them. The whole T1 scene was believable and to me, the T2 was stretching it a bit into the fantasy realm, if the series dives any further into that direction I will be sorely dissapointed, its not about fun, its about feeling the impact against humanity. If the fight against humanity is not believable the movie is a dead ringer. This is a money making process which is politically wrong for all those who expect the goods they want to see in a popular movie franchise.
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Another movie where arnold has to fight an individual robot seems way too repetitive. Really what can u expect but cool fight scenes ala carte? It would be better if this covered only the rise of Skynet, with the computer coming alive and sarah and john under time restraints to stop it somehow. I like the idea of having arnold as a scientist working for cyberdyne, and they are working on building prototype robots, let us see early versions of T-100's and stuff. Maybe Cyberdyne is contracted by the U.S. military to build weapons automated by computers. Maybe the U.S. actually starts using T-100's in the battlefield and Aerial HK's and those ground tank's. Then the media spurs controversy about what would go wrong with all this power automated by computers. Humans protest and Skynet comes online, begining the retaliation, the nukes, the world is torn asunder, and sarah is killed, john almost killed but he survives to lead the fight against skynet, its Post Apocalyptic earth now, and John has to break into skynet to gain access to the time machine and reprogram one single T-800 to go back in time to save himself. But what difficulties did they have in getting to the time machine and how really close were they to not being able to do it? that would be cool to see.
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For those of you interested, that includes you Harry Knowles, check out my Terminator 3: Armageddon screenplay at the following link;
http://www.terminator3armageddon.com/t31997/t3ndcov.html
And read the 1997 draft of my online Terminator 3 screenplay as well as the 1996 draft;
http://www.terminator3armageddon.com/t31996/t3cover.html
Female Terminators?
John Connor trying live a normal life?
John Connor hacking into computers? The discovery of back-up information on Sky-Net at Cyberdyne?
Sarah Connor living with militia types?
Sentient Frequency Matter? Another way of saying Quantum Plasma?
Looks like Tedi Sarafian has gone out of his way to copy information from the two drafts of the T3 script on my website. Anybody out there know a good entertainment attorney?
This spells;
L-A-W-S-U-I-T
And for those of you who doubt my scripts are copyrighted;
Go to
locis.loc.gov
with a Telnet client and look up Terminator 3. Here's a copy of my records at the Library of Congress;
The 1996 Draft;
PAu-2-047-047 (COHM) TITL: Terminator 3: Armageddon.
PHYS: 120 p.
NOTE: Screenplay.
CLNA: acDaniel L. Perez , 1973-
DCRE: 1995 DREG: 11Dec95
APTI: T3.
ECIF: 3/D
The 1997 Draft;
PAu-2-153-060 (COHM) TITL: Terminator 3: Armageddon.
PHYS: 121 p.
NOTE: Screenplay.
CLNA: acDaniel L. Perez , 1973-
DCRE: 1996 DREG: 29Nov96
APTI: T3.
ECIF: 3/D
and I had an even earlier draft registered with the Writer's Guild of America, West, a registration in which I still have the reciept from the Writer's Guild.
Tedi Sarafian is in BIG legal trouble.
Yours truly,
Daniel Perez -
If you want Harry's attention, e-mail him. Do you really think he reads all these talkbacks, especially the ones that take place almost a month after they are posted? Tell a lawyer, not us or Harry. If it comes to court, we'll read it in the trades. Sorry to sound like a downer
-
No one has copied your toilet paper u call a script. Dont even try to disrupt the T3 project!!!!!!!!
Im the guy that posted all those urls to the REAL t3 story in your guest books. Just accept that your script will not see the time of day. I read it and laughed. -
If you follow with the Future Coda ending then this movie is an impossibility. But I do like the idea of Arnold playing a Programmer.
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I just hope T3 will be better than T2.......
It almost can't......
missing Cameron......
woman-like death-machine??
aka. Miss.Terminator
hahahahahahha nice.
Famke from HOLLAND!! Yeahh!
It can be good with her!
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A new terminator3 movie.Could someone tell me if this is a roomer or is this true.
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The female terminator is midnight of woman,s wrestiling.It is wwf or wcw i am not sure.
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Ok, upon just reading mysterio's review, I now want to read the script, or at least find out some more about the plot. Initially, I was sceptical when I heard that Cameron wouldn't be writing the script, but now, all my doubts r gone. The concept of a female terminator sounds pretty kewl as well. Anyone know where I can read at least SOME of the script ?
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Ok, i went to the link Daniel Perez wrote in one of his messages just to check out his script. Now while the script DOES have it's merits. It doesn't seem that much like a terminator movie to me. Since when can the T-800 morph into blue plasma ? And while i did find SOME similarities between his and what we've HEARD about Tedi's script I didn't find that many. Either way, not a bad effort.
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Has anyone noticed, that if the war never DID happen then John Connor couldn't have been born ? Think about it. Reese, was a soldier who was sent back in time DURING THE WAR to protect Sarah, and one thing led to another and he ended being john's father. Now, if the war truly was prevented in T2, then John would've began to disappear, coz no war, means no Reese coming back in time, and thus, no John.
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ALRIGHT,SOME OF THIS IS GONNA BE SOME TWEAKS TO WHAT HAS BEEN REPORTED AND WHAT U ALL HAVE SAID.I LIKE THE IDEA OF JOHN AND SARAH FINDING ABOUT THE SKYNET PROJECT BEING WORKED ON AGAIN,SO I WILL KEEP THAT.AND MAKE ARNOLD THE KEY MAN BEHIND IT AS A SCIENTIST/COMPUTR SPECIALIST.AND THEN SEND THE TWO TERMINATORS BACK TO DO THE PROTECT AND KILL SHINDIG,BUT HAVE ROBERT PATRICK BACK AS A GOOD GUY T-1000, AND HAVE THE NEW T-1G AS AS THE BAD GUY.AND,EVEN THOUGH THIS WOULD TAKE SOME EXPLAINING,I SAY WE HAVE A YOUNGER KYLE REESE,MICHAEL BIEHN OR NOT,SHOW UP.TELL ME WHAT YA THINK WHEN YOU GET DONE READING THIS,OK.
P.S. if you want a real money maker i would make a ROBOCOP-VS.-TERMINATOR.i would love it.i could give ya a plot for that one if ya like.just ask me later. -
The T3 Movie sounds like its going to be a good movie.
Its going to be good to find out what sombody other than cameron can do for the terminator series. -
I personally think that Terminator 3 should be about the war with the machines. It would show the battle scenes between mankind and the machines, and will show how Mankind defeated Skynet. And, I think they should bring back Kyle Reese!!!
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I know this is probably pushing it, but i was wondering if there was ever anything mentioned in the plot about Sarah seeing John's father (Micheal Bean) again. That was probably one of the sadest moments in the 1st movie and i wouln't mind seeing them reunited.
Kind regards
Lilani -
What about the chick from Die Hard With A Vengence that played the guy's wife, she could play a good female terminator.
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Wowzers!
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Cameron didn't want to do it, because he originaly wanted to complete it with T2 then the Fans, Wanted a new Terminator, Story line so he desided to make, T2:3D then people came up to him or so i read and wanted to amke money with a third Terminator but, Terminator 2 didn't leave room for a new movie until the T2 3D came out witch destroyes Skynet in the future, at the end as i read Sky net is Destroyed, Correct with no Master computer to make and command the terminator's the human's have no threating, enemy's after the remaning terminators are killed, and Jimmy(Cameron) didn't want a movie that takes place in the war or basiclly after 2:41 august 29 1997 when the war begins, in the first film it says the final battle is fought here in present day, correct, thus this also mean the fina battle wwill not be fought in this future correct, then T-1000 was sent back in time the same time the first terminator wwas only they both wwent to different times the t-1000 went to 1995 and the first one went to 1985 so in the time line they were and were not fighting at the same time very complicated it time travel, then right after when the time machine was set on 1985 the T-1000 had already gone threw and the first one had just left, and the time was set on 1985 for reese while the Humans Had made a time Machine and Sent the good Arnie to 1995 to protect John i suppose this is the only way this can be try, also before i red that wwith no war there can be no john, there can be if rese in the future still falles in love wit sarah, alsoI have ultimate edition and the first ending of T2 took place in a Park in the year 2029, when John when he is an adult is pushing his daughter on a tire swwing, then you see old grandma Sarah, Recording, that the dark furture never came but it still exist inside me. then her grand daughter runs up to her and says, Grandma grandma tie my shoe, this takes place were the war wwould have bin, so this is why cameron didn't want to, because he originaly already ended the seris but they replaced this sceene with the black road of the future.
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This does sound like a very disappointing non effort re storyline. I've got nothing against good looking chicks kicking arse but that seems to be the only new idea here. Why not get rid of Arnie get another terminator chick rename this film and cast it in a more 'adult' setting and the two of them can go at it 'Super High Frequency Style' providing a more entertaining experience while not sullying the great Terminator series with a feeble attempt to cash in on the previous two excellent films.
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Ok, what I want to know is how are they going to deal with time line problems. IE: skynet orginally had the war in 97? august 27th or some shit like that.
Second, what about the alt ending of t2? Is john going to be a political leader or what?
Third, does John conner re program the t_800 to go back and protect himself as a kid, does he become best friends with his dad, what does sarah do with the future young lad to be her BF? come on folks t3 and t4 had better tie up the loose ends as well as kick ass with new sub plots -
The movie is not out yet, you cannot keep telling people this movie is gonna be no good, or that its gonna suck because james cameron isnt writing or directing it, given yes james cameron is incredible, but damn its not like someone else cant take the reigns
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You all might not like my i dea but here it goes cameron is directing the movie but it wont be released that he is untill the trailor comes out somewhere in the next 6-10 months. so why all you people are aguing about how its going to suck maby cameron will direct it and is doing it now because i think arnold wont accept being in it unless cameron is directing it.and if cameron is not directing it it will still be good because it takes a terminator fan to want to mess with a good movie. who would want to direct a movie they dont care a bout and risk loosing their career.and trust me i am a terminator fan. a month ago i took my dads car out just to see the building that they blew up in t2. it's still there and gues whut my licence aint cause i got pulled over on the way back and i dont get it for another 2 years. but it was cool to see the building anyways. and why when someone gets sent back to the past they a re nude. they can send liquid metal, endo skeletons humans but not a pare of jeans????? and the woman terminator i think is a bad i dea but somehow they will make it work im shure.
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it wont happen but it would be nise if guns n roses made the theme song......wishfull thinking
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hi there
where is it possible to read the screenplay sarafian wrote for t3 ?
I mean, the rewriting was all right, but not very spectacular. And i guess im just curious.
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