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Cypher beats Herc to seeing Tomorrow Night's BUFFY
Uh oh... Oh my God, Harry here... and it seems someone... somewhere has beaten Hercules to the latest upcoming episode of BUFFY... Who dares to defy Herc? Why... It's Cypher, and his opinion on Buffy seems to be runny a bit contradictory to Herc's, but ya know... That's fine.. more irons the more branding rightee o folks... Beware of Spoilers, here's Cypher...
Episode 2-3: "The Replacement"
IN SHORT: Xander is split into two Xanders, when a demon blasts him with green fire from a magical doohickey... green fire that was meant for Buffy. For Buffy, it was intended to turn her into two girls -- one normal Buffy, one all-slayer, all-the-time Buffy. For Xander, it apparently creates an evil twin. Is that really the case? Reread that last part about what it was supposed to do to Buffy, and you'll figure it out.
THE GOOD: Lots of Xander. TWICE the Xander. Granted, not both Xanders are consistently played by Nicholas Brendon (his bro Kelly Schwartz takes on the other Xander), but still, Xander is a character who needed this moment in the sun. And through this episode, we see him freaking out on one end as the smooth, suave Xander takes over his life. Of course, if you haven't figured it out already, this other Xander isn't an evil twin, but rather the other half of Xander -- his cool, calm side. And if one side dies, they both die. Hence the problem when nervous nerdy Xander tries to take on cool smooth Xander.
And no, despite numerous internet rumors about evil Xander becoming a recurring villian, well, that's not the case for two reasons: 1) There is no "evil" Xander and 2) They're back in one piece at the episode's end.
A little more of Xander's home life gets thrown in -- yelling parents, things being thrown. Yowza. But that's okay, it's good to have some more insight, and even better when it leads to Xander getting a snazzy new place.
We also see Anya's place. She has one, yup. Apparently with a gun, too.
It's great to see a complete lack of Tara, as well. Can't wait until she gets thrown off the show, preferrably out on her ass. Nothing wrong with Willow's new sexual swinging, but she at least needs a love interest someone gives a rat's ass about.
Is that CONTINUITY I smell? Anya's arm is still in a sling from last week's "minion" throw-down.
Spike is still harsh, as we see through a scene of him beating up on a dummy of Buffy he's recently constructed. When this little puppy gets his fangs back, I think he may be a force to be reckoned with once more.
Best part - the ending. Riley matter-of-factly tells Xander, after a moment of bonding over their respective girlfriends, that Buffy DOESN'T love him. It's not a complaint or a question of suspicion. He's just resigned to this, as a statement of FACT. It's a sad and shocking moment that leaves one to comtemplate if this will somehow tie in to Riley's ultimate departure... which sucks, since he's the best written and most likable character on the show right now.
THE BAD: What about Dawn? Her part is pretty small in this one, largely relegated to her gagging over the kissy-face sessions of Buffy/Riley. We should see more of her ogling the new, studlier Xander.
Willow should be a lot more involved in an episode so Xander-focused. I wanted to see their years-old bond come to the fore again. Not the case. Her role is ultimately small, and with few seconds in the sun.
The other bad, of course, is the sadness we feel for poor Riley. Damn you Whedon. Damn you straight to hell.
THE VERDICT: After a piss-poor season opener and a somewhat stumbling second installment, Buffy gets back to some sure footing with a Xander-focused winner. It's still not as well-written a show right now as 'Angel' is - not by a longshot - but it's getting there. With time and more quality like this, we may get ourselves back to the level of second season. Of course, without Riley on board, that's gonna be tough.
- CYPHER
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E-mail me if you have a better one.
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E-mail me if you have a better one.
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Oct 09, 2000 9:03:56 PM CDT
has there ever been another Xander-centric ep BESIDES Zeppo to c
by finite
...because I seem to remember him being blatantly and horribly ignored most of the time.
however, if you're talking about comparing all the Buffy eps ever aired, you're in for a long, long debate...
however, in my book
Becoming 1 & 2 were two of the best...
The Wish was excellent
I personally liked Gingerbread alot
and Restless was nearly perfect
finite -
I personally thought the Zeppo sucked and season 1's "The Pack" was a far superior Xander episode.
But that's me -
Week after week, I promise myself I won't read Cypher's spoiler-happy reviews, and every time I find I just can't help myself!! Keep up the good work, Cyph! Hey, wait a minute!! Something's not... Goddamn it, somebody altered this timeline!! Hey!! No, wait, officer, I should be writing the Buffy spoilers! Hey, get your hands off me! Drew! Harry! Doncha know me?? It's me, H --mmphh mmmphhh...
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Cypher, you may be part of the smallest minority in the world; people who actually admit to liking Riley Finn without being a member of Mark Blucas' family.
I'm not saying anything against you personally, I'm sure that you're a sparkling, warm and witty individual, but you are deluded in regards to Riley. To put it mildly, he has the personality of a speed-bump, and half the sex appeal. Not to mention the fact that he openly supported the Initiative, even after its leader tried to have the woman he professes to love killed last season.
In short, I'm with Dawn regarding Riley. The sooner that he's written off, the better the show will be. THE BEEFSTICK MUST GO! -
Not that there's anything wrong with that. Well, since I enjoyed the first two eps, I'm prepared to disagree with Cypher on this one. But we'll see. This season seems to be about changing identities.. Giles was stressing how he needs to get a life, and the joke about how he always gets knocked unconscious.. now he's Buffy's watcher again and runs the magic shop. Xander complaining about being everyone's "buttmonkey", Willow commenting on how they're the sidekicks.. I think by the end of the season, everything's going to be different. Possibly, something major could happen with Buffy and the other Scoobies will have to deal with stuff without her Slayerness.. but that's just my speculation. Oh, and I'll take Faith, I mean, er, Dark Angel over Angel any day. It's still choppy, and Angel still annoys me.
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Being a huge Xander fan, I'm smacking my lips waiting to devour a new Buffy that's so Xander-centric. I personally enjoyed the premiere quite a bit, and thought last week's was a bit of a letdown from that start, but this looks to be the best episode to date. What I'd like to know is, has school STARTED yet (it is October, after all) and where are Buffy, Willow, Tara, Riley, et. al. living these days? I'd also count myself in the anti-Riley camp, finding him to be basically a boring piece of meat, but I do find it a positive development that the writers would address the absolute lack of chemistry between he and Buffy by at least having the poor sap finally come to realize where he stands in the greater picture.
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That's my main problem with him. He's got no past, no family, no agenda anymore... If he died, at least he could come back as a ghost like Dennis! His character has about that much depth.
Sorry.
As for Tara, I couldn't stand her, but know she's grown on me for some reason. Did we ever figure out why she hid the dust during the casting of a detecting-evil type spell with Willow? That still bugs me to this day.
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...we finally find out what Tara's hidden agenda is. You know she's been hiding something for a while. Maybe it'll tie into Riley's demise, but oh well. Maybe they'll both die. BRING BACK DOYLE ON ANGEL!
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Yes, there was another Xander centered episode, during season 2, I think. It was the one with the love spell, and a rare appearance by poor Amy, where all the women /except/ Cordelia became hopelessly in love/lust/obession with Xander. Buffy in a tiny little coat and nothing else, then turned into a rat. Jenny Calender all but groping Xander. You know the one I mean.
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Why did she hide the dust during the casting of a detecting-evil type spell with Willow, you ask? BECAUSE SHE'S EVIL! She sabotaged that spell because it would have detected HER. Did you not see the look on her face in last week's episode when Willow called her "one of the good guys"? She ain't. She be bad. B-A-D. And Tara spelled backwards is "a rat." I am a GENIUS! Woo-hoo! ;-)
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Hey gang, Cypher here. I just realized that I made an error in the above scoop. I refer to Nicholas Brendon's brother as Kelly SCHWARTZ... I've since been told by quite a few people that it's Kelly SCHULTZ. And yes, they are twins.
I also am aware that I'm a bit in the minority on my Riley feelings. Hopefully, if I do a review of episode 4 of this season, I'll go a bit more in-depth on that subject. It looks like that episode will be largely Riley-centric.
Until then, may the 'schwartz' be with you. -
In my opinion, the best Xander episode is Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered. This is the Valentine's Day ep where Cordy breaks up with Xander and Xander gets Amy to cast a love spell so that Cordy will fall back in love with him. However, the spell backfires and all of the women of Sunnydale fall madly in love with Xander, except Cordy. Seeing Xander walking down the hall as all the women fall for him is a classic.
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Riley is a Tosser. Buffy has gotta get over these booding, insecure losers.
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Given what seems to be coming out about the root of Slayer-ness, I think the reason Tara avoided the spell was to keep it from lighting up *BUFFY* and starting a whole line of questions that they didn't want to address (until this season, apparently...)
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Okay, first I'll have to say that I'm a Tara fan. Yes, she exists more as a sounding-board for other characters (particularly Willow) but there's nothing wrong with that. Also, we all know that something big is coming up, and I trust that the surprise will make up for what some people see as lack of her personal development. Riley... Well, I'm not sure. At times, I relate to him. I mean, hell, he's got basically the same thing going on as Xander, except he's a pretty-boy and thusly not as likely to get any sympathy. Now, as far as Xander, the entire reason I started watching Buffy was because I caught the Valentine's Day episode. The Zeppo is still my favorite episode (although Hush comes pretty damn close) and my only complain about the series is that they can't add the kind of deep characterization found in that episode into the regular episodes, though they usually accompolish it through season-long story arcs. Now, bring on Hercules and his review of Angel! (Or at least give us a talkback for it if Herc can't get to them anymore...)
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Although I do like the episode The Zeppo, as it gave my man Xander a chance to shine, it wasn't one of the best episodes. The Sisterhood of the Zhe was kind of lame and so were the psycho zombies. Although the humor of that episode did click, the usual suspense was a little off. Though seeing Faith and Xander go at it, well in the words of Depeche Mode, I bet we all (guys) wanted to "reach out and touch Faith." I still have to vote for Bewitched as it wasn't a Xander-specific episode but dealt him a great storyline. Plus, for those of us who have watched since episode one, wasn't it great to see Buffy finally after Xander yet him turn her down? Although what better way is there than losing your virginity than to Faith.
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if anyone else was annoyed that Angel was in a picture from the fifties last week when it's been previously established that he doesn't show up on film or video, chek last years season premiere for one instance. The cameras at the law firm were specially designed specifically for vamps, so they don't count. Also, I like Riley too
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My question is this: how did he go from living in that hotel to being a bum on the street drinking from rats to survive. If you remember, he was "found" by some demon who told him to clean up and go take care of Buffy. I believe that this backstory was told in the series premiere of Angel. I may be wrong about that but I do remember him on the street looking pretty pitiful. What happened in those 40 years Angel? Tell me. Yes it also annoyed me about that picture. Like he would be standing in the background at that exact moment and that would just happen to be the picture Cordy and Wesley find. Sounds pretty contrived to me.
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How can you say Angel is better written than Buffy? Angel sucks right now. The episodes are tedious and unoriginal. Maybe its because there just isnt enough to work with. The whole redemption thing just isnt getting it done for me. There is no big bad or lore to keep me interested...only Charisma. The Wolfman and Hart thing is being dragged out too long already. Meanwhile, Buffy continues to entertain, build on already established characters and lore.
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I have to agree with the above post. Angel has kind of turned into what the originally did not want: a save of the week episode. All Angel does now is find out who needs help and Angel goes to save whomever. The build-up for Cordy's latest vision is getting more and more lame (the whole sneeze thing last week). Then they scribble out whatever demon Cordy saw and then go try to find it. There is always someone in distress and Angel always saves them. The whole Wolfgang and Hart is getting too stretched out (and I see that one lawyer suffers from a typical ailment of someone who got their hand cut off-their arm grows longers) and there is no grabbing overall story-arc. I will continue to watch as long as Cordy is on (oh and because my wife likes Angel).
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Today on KROQ in L.A. Nicholas Brendon and his Brother, Kelly, were on. He used the name Kelly Donovan, so I guess that's his new stage name. They were both pretty funny, too.
I also want to say, I liked Dawn. She's kinda hot for a little kid. (she's no Faith, though. Hubba-hubba)
Oh, and bring back Doyle!!! -
Oct 10, 2000 10:53:46 AM CDT
Oh, and another thing!!! What's with all the only children?
by briscocountyjr
-Until Dawn, Buffy was an only child.
-Xander is an only child, apparantly.
-So is Willow.
-So was Cordelia, wasn't she?
-Has Gilles ever mentioned siblings?
-How about Angel?
-Or Faith?
What's up with that? -
There is a major spoiler on the Buffy Newsletter this week regarding Tara. It basically says who she really is and what her purpose is. If you don't get the newsletter, try going to the buffy program page on www.wgntv.com.
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Exactly when and how was it ever established that Angel doesn't show up on film or video? I've seen last years season premiere lots of times, and I don't remember anything in it that proves vampires don't show up anywhere except mirrors. On the other hand, I can give at least two examples just off the top of my head to prove otherwise... In season 2, "School Hard," Spike videotapes Buffy fighting another vampire, and in season 3, "Helpless," Kralik takes hundreds of Polaroids of himself with Buffy's mom. If there was something in Angel that contradicts this, can you offer a specific example?
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Good point. Just about everybody is an only child. Angel did have a sister, though. She was one of his earlier victims back in the 1750's.
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simple if you were a good person that was forced to feed off people..finally were able to be a good guy again but were so disgusted you didn't act good at all...then you meet someone you care about and after she screws you you doom her and a hotel of people to death...wouldn't that prey on your conscience enough to turn you into a drunk...I think this episode EXPLAINS A HELL OF A LOT ABOUT ANGEL. This is why he is a hero and so on. I thought it added an interesting side to Angel to show that he could allow people to die even while he is "good" and how he has grown since then. I think the 50's episode was BY FAR the best this season of either show even though we have barely begun. Now I love Buffy but if you are going to delve into Angel then she deserves the same treatment. Her attitude has been horrible. This Buffy is ALWAYS right situation nearly destroyed the show! Only now are they trying to fix it. I mean she meats the FIRST Slayer is told an important lesson adn laughs it off after kicking the girls ass AND MAKING FUN OF HER HAIR!! The fact she is morally right over everyone even her watcher (even though she isn't honestly) is so riduclous. Look at Batman and Alfreds relationship to see it done right. Now Angel all the characters have their moments and it is much more evenly written. Buffy is improving and is a great show but I think Angel right now is superior. The theme of redemtpion is far superior to ...post teen romance with that loser Riley...what is Buffys theme now?
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I understand the theme of redemption. The only thing I don't understand is how Angel is going about to achieve this redemption. Yes, he's helping people in need (please don't reply this obvious method) but how many people does he need to save in order for the gates of heaven/hell(?) to allow him entrance? I mean, isn't that the ultimate goal. That's why I story an overall story-ARC. That seems like a straight line to me. Buffy right now (through two episodes mind you) deals with self-discovery, self-loathing, fears of the human mind, coming to grips with others while you, and they, change, and the growth that all of us feel as we live our lives. We learn more about Buffy, and the Scoobies, each week. The ending is not known and it is the fun of the journey that makes me tune in each week. Angel's path is very distinct and it is only a matter of time until he gets there. We all know that. Angel has turned into the chalkboard that they were writing on last week: another demon, another victorious case! Yeah! Great job everyone until next week when we have no idea what will... of that's right, we do. The acting last week was especially atrious (sp). Look at me, I am the broading rebel without a cause as I stand at Griffith Planetarium. Boreanez was especially emotionless last week and like I said before, I tire of Cordy's "here comes another vision" visions. The characters were so one-sided: let's see we have the hayseed with the heart of gold, the gay studly actor, the communist writer, and the quirky bellhop. Plus, when Angel and the gang were having all of those money problems in season one, why didn't he go and get the bag-o-money? He must have just forgotten. I thought about your explanation the other day when I was watching the show, but I just didn't buy that that was the reason that he was a bum in the series premiere. Not saying that isn't a good explantation (which would explain why it took him to season 2 to revisit the hotel), it jsut seems like there should be a BETTER reason. However, I will be tuning in for another episode of Touched by an Angel tonight... oops, I mean Angel.
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just cause one Prophecy says he is gonna make it in season 1 doesn't mean it will happen and it doesn't mean it will be a good thing if he does. He could end up mortal only to get killed again...Joss never tips his hand that easy. All this does is show him a POSSIBLE light at the end of the tunnel, a reason to get up in the morning. To put a quanifiable number on it (kill 24 demons and 5 evil monsters and you get redeemed TM and C 1977 Marvel Comics Group) would sort of be purile and weaken the show. The point is he doesn't know what road he is going down all he does know is after all this time he finally knows how to walk it. Now for bad acting -HAHAHAHA if you could get past Riley Dawn Tara Anya and deal with the over the top cartooneyness of Willow and Xander and Buffys downright corny delivery of "catchy" lines then you shoiuld have no problem with Angel. You talk about all of these deep subjects that were touched on in Buffy and I can laugh those off just as easily because they were so poorly handled. All these episodes are is a series of patches. They are making attempts to make the Watcher important again (man this story development is so NON SUBTLE!) and trying to handle the weird "relationships" of the show as now everyone is easily paired up so let the Dawsons Creekisms flow. They are trying to grow up Buffy and teach her she can be wrong and increase the gangs importance...Joss is going somewhere but with Buffy he is climbing out of a hole after a piss poor season finale. Angel on the other hand has been pleasently smooth and well thought out. Wolfram and Hart are about a million times cooler than the horrid Frankenstein project and I am glad we have a story line with some scope. For poor old Frank...The actor was cool but the plan they gave him sucked. That 50's episode of Angel was awesome if you understood what they were trying to do in capturing the "seedy" side of the fifties and the twist with the girls made it true film noir stuff. I loved it. The themes of race and being different and despised and guilt and hate and envy and paranoia and all the other sins man deals upon himself were handled far better in this episode then virtually any episode of Buffy last season. The horror that Angel, with his soul was able to turn his back on innocent people and let them die said something about HOW FAR Angel really has to go. Now on Buffy you have a spoiled brat, her annoying boyfriend and now out of nowhere via lame twist- sister and self proclaimed side kicks. Like I said I like both shows but Buffster has suffered. I know some stuff that is planned and the series will be righting itself. Ultimatly it comes down to if the series villians are as good as the Mayor and will they be given something to do. Over on Angel I don't have that worry...as long as it revolves around the core which is trim and has purpose other than dating it is fine by me. By the way the new kid, Angels Robin, ROCKS.
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Didn't Wesley say in one of last seasons last few eps that there would be 5 major battles that would result in Angel becoming human? If so I'm kinda curious as to what Joss and company consider a major battle. As for the 50s ep I thought it was great, especially after the season premiere where Angel killed the protector demon. Lots of greif and angst there which is what I want to see after the more light hearted Buffy.
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Regarding what will be the five apocalytic battles for Angel, that's easy: five season-ending climaxes.
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An important change this season on Buffy is the loss of composer Chris Beck, who joined the show on season 2, and who's contribution to the show's effectiveness should not be underestimated. The new composer is doing fine with the action stuff, but Beck's strength was his scoring of the intimate character scenes, and the new guy is shying away from them, leaving them largely unscored. It hurts.
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Sundown, so we meet again. I'm sorry but I still don't understand the overall meaning of Angel. You're saying that it hasn't just turned into a demon/victim of the week, sort of like Millenium with the serial killer of the week. "Just because the Prophecy said it so doesn't mean it will happen and even if it does, it doesn't mean that it will be a good thing." Sure Angel will turn mortal again and maybe he will be killed. Guess what, that's the end of the show. Show me the story-arc. Describe the overall arc of the past one season and the first two episodes. What has happened? Enlighten me. What has changed for the characters? Where is their growth. Most importantly, are they doing anything different now than from the beginning of the show? My question about how many lives Angel must save to save himself was a rhetorical one but thanks for answering. Yes to quantify it would be weak and purile but I quess they'll just leave YOU in suspense. How many times can you watch Angel save the day and "grow" in his knowledge that he is making a difference. What was that Michael Landon show of the 1980s. Wasn't it the same premise? About the deep subjects: Buffy is constantly commended for attempting these issues and succeeding, thus continually being named one of the best shows of the year. As a fan of Buffy, you already know this. What deep issues does Angel tackle? Lawyers are bad. OHHHHHHHH! And don't say anything because you said Wolfgang and Hart were "cool." Yes, I do know that the 1950s episode was pointing up the seedy side of the 1950s, however, that has nothing to do with film noir. The characteristic film noir moods of claustrophobia, paranoia, despair, and nihilism constitute a world view that is not expressed through plot (as you have pointed out) but through style. Certain characteristics of the film noir style are antitraditional lighting (low-key and night-for-night shooting) and camera (use of greater depth of field and wide-angle lens)and antitraditional mise-en-scene (off-angle compostitions and claustrophobic framing devices). So please don't tell me about the film noir Angel as it had none of these concepts present throughout the program. Yes, Angel had a plot that could be taken out of a film noir, however, that it plot and not a description of film noir style. Finally, if you "know some stuff that is planned" please do not be pretenious and act like it is your info and no one else's. I can go read the spoilers too yet I don't feel the need to act like Joss Whendon called me up to tell me the inside scoop. Unless you are Joss, in which case, Gunn sucks. He is going to be the stoic black man or the comedy relief. Make up your mind JOSS.
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Spike is the best character on the show. He obviously has a Buffy obsession which will no doubt at some point lead them to a little bit of romance. Down with Riley up with Spike!
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Buffy is half-demon. This is going to be a BIIIIG season for this character. There are already hints of this all over the place. Makes sense for a Slayer to know its own, eh? Kind of like Blade, Buffy is a half-breed.
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Superninja, I agree that Spike is one of the best things on the show. However, the only problem is that he isn't on enough. But at least I get to see him in the opening credits, which is longer than he is in some episodes. Maybe Spike will kill Riley. Yeah!
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Part of the reason that Buffy is such a great show is that when it first started expectations were low, if there were any expectations at all. Shows based on movies almost always suck, and so who would have thought that Buffy could become such an original, entertaining, moving series. So when Angel debuted last year, I think we were all looking for that same sense of discovery and awe, and instead we got an inferior rehash. The show needs some time to evolve into something more unique than an urban equivalent of Buffy. And if Joss can't elevate Angel into something greater than what it is now, than they should end it before they embarass themselves and the franchise( a la Schumacher).
oh also, I don't mind Riley, but he is in deperate need of a heavy dose of personality. And I think that the absolute low point of the entire Buffy series is how ignored Xander is in virtually every episode. This must come to a stop! Can't wait for his twin episode. -
it wasn;t a personal attackon you. No need to slam me and Angel to make Buffy seem better. Yes Buffy is a great show but like B5 and many other shows it has suffered. You talk about development but what the hell has happend to Buffy all year...how has she grown. And if you can't see the awesome stuff they've done with Charisma in teaching her character the value of their crusade and doing to slowly and the stuff with Wesley where they turned a character that was 2d and poorly conceived in Buffy into a 3d human over night then thats where we disagree I guess. I suppose episodes of Buffy where Anya takes a vine through her hand and its never addressed is "cool" character development to you but to me its weak as shit. You continually lambast Angel for being a show with no direction or weak premise but ignore the fact that Buffy is suffering much worse right now. What is her purpose??? She is a vampire Slayer who fights wimpy ass vampires. She doesn't want redemption...she wants to shop! Angels story is the hero journey...you can liken it to Highway to Heaven (hey, that show was oool!) or an incredible hilk where the trouble comes to him. Fact is you want to paint it into a demon of the weak deal well whoopie what is Buffy then but a calvalcade of weak vampire characters and subplots that go nowhere? Now for your film noir comments. Excuse me, mr. film school graduate, I didn't know I was conversing with Luis Bu
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I would still say Buffy is the better show from a characterization standpoint, but Angel is still a young show. Overall, I'm more interested to see what they do with Angel. Kinda tired of the whole Scooby Gang deal, everyone dating everyone, Buffy's umpteenth lame-o boyfriend. I like Angel (or Boreanez, rather) and Cordelia. Actually, I'd like Angel and Cordelia to end up together as her character matures more. There seemed to be hints at the beginning of Season 1 that she would be a vampire, but it was ditched. Maybe they intend to use this later? Of course, Angel HAS sired more vampires than Liz Taylor's had husbands...
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Sundown, I apologize for any personal attacks. I did not mean to put you down, just converse over these two excellent show. Though I see problems with Angel, I still tune in each week and enjoy. My point was this: the show is like Highway to Heaven (thank you) whereas Angel is out to save a soul a week. I just want the show to move in some direction with some overall baddie. In address of your points: yes Cordy and Wesley have grown, which is nice to see although Doyle is missed. Anya taking a vine through the hand is not character development but a plot hole (catch the double meaning). I guess our argument stems from the demon of the week theory. Yes both Angel and Buffy fight some weak-assed characters however, on Buffy, that is the only driving factor behind the weekly plots whereas it is on Angel. Obviously they both rely on the adversary however, I believe Buffy relies on it less. Without the adversary on Angel, what do you have? I think you have a bit more in Buffy. I didn't mean to attack you about sources, just specify where those sources are located. It just sounded like "I have inside info and you don't." And that hurt my feelings. No, but really, I hope that they will be able to bring Buffy back to Season 3 glory and build on Angel a little more (this week's episode looks like another rehash of his old days, getting tried of those that's for sure). And finally, no I do not have a TV show. I am a film studies professor who has recently graduated. Thus, I am a little jumpy defending my speciality: Hollywood films of the 1940s-50s. I'm just looking for some good discussion instead of "Buffy rules" or "Dawn is hot" and I found it with you. Thanks and I guess we will talk tomorrow after the shows!
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You have to admit some of the dialogue in Angel is really bad, though. I saw that EP last week, and while I thought it was decent, I flinched a few times. Maybe they should make the tone of Angel more mature overall instead of just a darker Buffy. That was the promise of the show -- it's set in LA which we all know is a much naster place than Sunnydale, even sans-demons! For instance, I know Cordy is a valley-girl but they could make her wit a tad sharper. And Angel needs to stop just reaction to everything around him and become the emotional center of the show. I still see too much of a Buffy tone going into Angel, perhaps in fear that if they leave the formula behind they'll lose their viewership. Angel could be something much more, and hopefully it will be once Joss gets the ball rolling.
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Hey all, new guy here. Has anyone heard anything about the possibility of Drusilla's return? As cool as Spike is (and he's one of the coolest characters in the show), he's ten times better when Dru's around.
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While I agree with the overriding majority of talkbackers that Buffy is a superior show to Angel, I must interject on the film noir brouhaha. While the claustrophobic shots and use of shadow are staples of film noir, the use of the femme fatale (in a post war society that mistrusted the woman who displaced men during the workplace in the war) and the depiction of corruption in society (another postwar staple of the noir style) that thwarts the protagonist are both sure signs of film noir. I don't want to bash film studies, but movies aren't all about the shots and angles of the camera. Nobody raves about a movie with accomplished cinemotography but a steaming pile of a story. Audiences and critics alike are both drawn to characterization and interesting stories. By the by, I think the user name Ethan Edwards gave us some pretty insight into what your favorite genre is. (Bridget O'Shaughnessy would have been good too.) Now let's quite quibbling, rescue young Natalie Wood and bust a six pack of woopass on Scar.
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I'm on a strictly Angel diet, if you catch my drift.
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Oct 10, 2000 8:47:46 PM CDT
Also we should continue to pretend we heard nothing of the distu
by hercules
**** (better than most motion pictures)
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Buffy great show, best since earlier last season. The stuff with Xander was hilarious and actually said more than has been said about that character in a while. The slow march towards the splits of Buffy and Riley and Xander and Anya have begun... which means Anya will hopefully be pushed back and Riley will be gone. More focus was placed ont he core group and the annoying sister stuff was pushed to the far back where it will be handled in episodes that are geared directly towards it...the only possible complaint is the one EE made about Angel..generic demon. Now Angel kicked some ass. From the lighter moments like Wesley callin Angel a WANKER! to the post beatdown movie conversation R Dogs and LA Confidential ref and the I stopped watching movies after Malcolm X! Awesome stuff. Then we go into cool stuff like Cordy the white girl going into the hood and getting a reality check along with all the stuff with Gunn and his destructive attitude was just dead on. I don't think you can doubt that Gunn is not a comedy side kick he is a bad mofo. In fact the episode where his sister died struck me as the most horrific and formidable the vampires have ever been and I am glad they harkened back to that in this episode. I think his arc is awesome and he is my favorite new character since Faith. They fore shadowed the finale villian in Darla and W&A and I think that is building nicely she is an awesome actress and great femme fetale. Darla rules..I can eat you up. As far as the one handed man the thing that makes him a great villian to me in line with lets say Agent Smith in the Matrix or Gabriel in the Prophecy is the fact that he just wants something sooo bad. He may not see himself as right but you can understand his goals and nothing showed that better than the episode where he flirted with becoming a good guy and we learned about his past. One last nice touch about this episode was the vampire Angel caught running out of the party...it was just cool how she disquised herself. Oh and the demon hunting Bill Gates dork was cool. Overall I loved this episode and am psyched to see where Angel goes. Next episode has no demon but a Carrie girl...we'll see. Oh and EE- personally as far as Dawn and the Buffster goes Buffy may rule but Dawn is a little young to be hot for my tastes. And with all that experience you should make a film, with digital technology it's cheap now a days...
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Both Buffy and Angel were excellent tonight. The reason for the double Xander took me by suprise and the overall show was great. Angel, possibily the best one ever, made all my previous comments foolish sounding. A great episode for one simple reason: a almost non-existent Angel. Finally the characters, especially Cordy and Gunn, get to stand on their own without Angel. No demon of the week in the usual Angel sense. The line about C3PO and Stick-Figure Barbie a classic. Very impressed by Gunn tonight. Sleazy G, I didn't mean that Gunn could only be the stoic black man or the comedy relief. You missed my point. I was only stating that that was how he had been set up in his previous appearances. Great interplay with Cordy and a possible romance bode well for both characters. Good to see all that growth for both characters in this one episode. It also looks like it could be some interesting times ahead for Angel and Darla. As for all of your fine dissections of film noir, sorry but you're wrong. I will explain tomorrow because my wife is calling me to bed. Ah, the tough life of a married man. Look for my fine rendering of the film noir tomorrow. And fuzzywookie, great catch "bust a sixpack of whoop-ass on Scar." That'll have me laughing until tomorrow.
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i KNEW that "bill gates" looked familiar...now i FINALLY know why...
but on the subject of angel, does anyone else despise the hokey demon karaoke bar as much as i do? i mean, it was funny at first...but are they going to make it a staple of the series?
oh, and as for buffy...for the first time, i actually LIKED riley this episode, mostly because of that closing scene...it was a great scene, especially with the focus on xander's reaction to what riley said...
also, is anyone else sensing a possible gunn/cordy love connection? i know i may be (and in all likelihood AM) wrong, but damn if it didn't seem like they were playing that possibility up... -
Somehow I missed the short-lived BRIMSTONE; however I'll take Sleazy_G's word for it that ANGEL is starting to remind him of that show. What I've been waiting for has finally happened. With the 50's flashback show, ANGEL has finally become FOREVER NIGHT. Unfortunately, a Star Wars-type demon kareoke (sp?) bar will never match the cool goth vampire bar in NIGHT.
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They really need to come up with a legitimate reason for Spike to be a regular, instead of just having the core gang running into him every episode. Hey, Spike's at the dump! Spike knows where Harmony is! etc. Yes, Spike is much much too cool to kill off, and I'm glad he's a regular, but let's have some story for him shall we? Aside from that -- good ep, missed Tara, poor Riley, love Anya. Hope Xander doesn't drop back out of sight after this ep.
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Oct 10, 2000 10:58:19 PM CDT
Next week, hear Riley say, "Don't make me angry, you wouldn't li
by superninja
Not a bad EP. Started out horribly, with joke-per-second unnatural dialogue. But it turned out real good. Nice character development for Anya and Xander. There is no such thing as too much Spike Mr. Wheedon, and I'm not just saying that because of my juvenile crush on Mr. Marsters! They actually made me feel sorry for Riley, dammit! But they could've given the demon a little more background or motivation. This whole "Hellsmouth Demons out for Buffy" bit is getting tired. Another big baddie is needed.
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There's a nasty rumor going around that Marsters is gone after this season. One I seriously hope is not true. Since we all know Riley is gone, it would be nice to see Spike step up into a supporting role. Not to mention they're highlighting his nasty obsession w/ Buffy.
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Not surprisingly, I liked Buffy more, but Angel really surprised me... hey, Gunn's a good character! Cool! I just wish they hadn't added that whole "anger leads to the dark side!" thing at the end. Grr. Oh, and just so you know... Dawn is, in fact, hot. Might be jailbait, though.
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This is probably one of the best Angel EPs yet. Good stuff with Cordy and Gunn. The pink motorcyle helmet was hilarious. I hope Darla goes away soon. She's annoying.
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Very rarely does it happen when I love both Buffy and Angel episodes. But tonight was AWESOME! Xander hasn't cracked me up this much since Zeppo. According to spoilers there will be a Cordy/Gunn romance, which should be interesting. I think Gunn's an awesome character. And I thought Wesley was (gasp!) cool in this episode. It's hard to forgive him for replacing Doyle, especially since he started out as such a dork. As for the Riley issue, I can't stand him! And not just for the Buffy-should-only-be-with-Angel riff, although that's a biggie. They have no chemistry. I could see Buffy with that guy Parker more than with Riley.
"There's no part of you that I'm not in love with" - great line, but there was no umph to it whereas Angel's "I love you. I try not to but I can't stop" made me just melt inside. This is not a slight against Blucas, at least I hope no one sees it that way, but Riley sucks. I'll put it another way. I work in casting and last summer I saw the original description of Riley with an audition scene that wasn't used on the show. The last sentence of the description read "If Angel is Bruce Wayne, then Riley is Clark Kent". For any of you who saw the Batman/Superman cartoon movie, which one was Lois Lane more attraced to? -
I just can't agree with the positive talk about tonight's Buffy. 3 straight episodes now with incredibly lightweight storylines that border on sitcom-ish. This show has been so amazing in the past(season 3 especially), when its been a drama, with occasional comedy. So far this season its been a comedy, with maybe a dramatic moment here or there. Not that I don't enjoy a good Xander romp(the line about them checking each other out was hilarious), but I just prefer Buffy when its more serious, and has comic relief sprinkled in. For me, its 3 for 3 now with Angel being better than Buffy, and again it wasn't even close. Angel's stand-alone stories are just better at this point, and yes, more dramatic. Plus the Darla storyline is more intruiging than Dawn. Angel's taking itself much more seriously now, not like Buffy which feels like its spoofing itself. Perhaps its unfair, but I demand the best from Buffy, because its delivered just that in the past.
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Xander used to be one of my favorite characters, but since he fell into the background during the college years, he's become a one-note gag. Tonight...well...actually he was still pretty much the one-note goofball, but it's good to see him back in the spotlight. Like Twig, I'd like to see the show start leaning more towards drama and some serious horror (like them nasty monsters in "Hush"). The last time I remember Xander being treated seriously was the first episode of the college season. As the resident loser, he was the one guy Buffy could talk to when she was having trouble fitting into the college life. I'd like to see their old friendship strengthened again. Anya, I think, could stand to be dropped altogether. Xander's already done the amusing-but-empty-love-affair bit with Cordelia. No need to keep that gag running. Let him be single for a bit and go back to a leaner cast. Average-man Riley can go too, and I'm pleased to see that hinted at in this episode. Don't hate the guy, but he adds little to the show's mix. Spike...he definitely needs to return to the fore. Since his stay with the Initiative, I think they've gone way they hell too far in neutering his character. C'mon, wasn't he supposed to've killed a few Slayers once? Didn't he used to be the show's most charismatic villain? And now the poor bastard has been nothing but a joke for a season or so, living in basements and digging in dumpsters. In short, old characters like Xander and Spike need some serious attention, and newbies like Anya and Riley should be fodder for Dracula (he is gonna return, right?). Tara can stay though. Good character and I'm still damn curious as to why she sabotaged that spell last season...
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I gotta vote "Buffy" all the way on this one. Admittedly, I've probably only seen four or five episodes of "Angel" from start to finish, but not a one has captivated me. I really think the whole premise is flawed. Angel worked best as a supporting player. He was cool as the brooding mystery man, but I never thought he had the depth to carry his own show. Now that he's doing just that, they've expanded his character but sacrificed the mystery and power of this guy who's supposed to've lived for hundreds of years. When I watched the second-season opener, I couldn't believe his weak-ass attempt to convince the pregnant lady he was legit: "See, I've got business cards!" he stammered as he held them up impotently. Man, that's dialogue suited for an inexperienced kid like Xander, not an immortal bad-ass. Another problem - like Angel himself, ALL the main players on his show are cast-off supporting characters from Buffy. They should've stayed that way. I got to like Cordelia when she and Xander were an item for a while, but even at her best, I never saw her as anything more than an enjoyable second-stringer. Had the early reports that "Angel" was to be much darker than "Buffy" been true, I think her character could've grown rapidly and *maybe*, just maybe become interesting. As it stands, though, "Angel" is alarmingly close to the familiar "Buffy" humor/drama combo. Not a cardinal sin, but why would I want to watch "Buffy", then waste another hour on a show that pretty much follows the exact same path? To watch lamers like Wesley and Cordelia "develop"? To see Angel turn down a cure one more time? To see more demons rendered non-scary because they're all so easily categorized? I suppose I understand "Angel's" appeal for the ladies, since Buffy's short on attractive guys right now, but I can't see much more to it than that. I want to keep an open mind, but I'd really rather see the show dropped so Angel and Faith could return to "Buffy". In any case, I plan to give "Angel" at least another shot or two since everyone's been giving it such ringing endorsements lately. But I remain skeptical. Damn skeptical!
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Last week's episode of Angel was one of the best episodes of ANY show I have seen in a long time. It was simply inspirational: How many of us would NOT condemn those who betray us? The real question, however, is how many of us could find it in ourselves to look past that betrayal, and have the heart to forgive and help the ones who hurt us? -
Oct 11, 2000 9:04:03 AM CDT
reason why Angel is sleak (in my opinion) and Buffy needs trimmi
by sundown
One thing Joss does is add characters when the show slows. Look back and whenever things get in arutt he just throws in a new character. In the past Buffy was Buffy Giles Willow Xander and occasionally Angel Cordelia the ever cool OZ and later Faith and Wuusley. Now they were all good actors and solid characters that were well thought out. But look at the post ANgel replacements for the second teir...Anya Tara Riley and now lil sis Dawn. Of them all Dawn is th eonly intriguing one. I think this is what annoys me about Buffy. TOO much time is spent on these characters who are pale in comparrison to their former incarnations Tara/Oz Cordelia/Anya Riley/Angel...isn't it obvious. Now it looks like things are moving in the right direction as the focus is off these guys and they fade fromt he show (atleast Riley and Tara do) and if Anya/Xander break up (that analysis is dead on why do we need X-cordy II?) atleast that adds a new dimension and I might like the spoiled bitch more...sorry. Dawn I think will be cool when the truth is revealed and may be Buffys answer to Gunn an Faith, a new regular with charisma and meat. And while Cordy and Wesley were weaker on Buffy (I never loved the characters that much) I LOVE them now and the reasons are simple...they are good good actors. They made me like Wesley after despising him in 1 episode...just by doing the bike terminator thing. I loved it. Now for Spike. I think his training himself to get around the chip is awesome and if played right when he does get around it (they finally chose for Spike villian or scooby gang and they chose well) they are all screwed. I think this adds a really intelligent ingenuity aspect to Spike. Spike will be bad ass again but it is a hard road cause Buffster will want to not stop until he is dead and who really wants that? That is why he can't really be a season ending villian. But last night even for 2 seconds he was awesome and foreshadowed coolness.
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Which is what I really wanted to post earlier but hit the "enter" button to quickly.....
Okay - I LIKE RILEY. HE is slowly evolving into a very independent character. C'mon Riley naysayers, in the beginning Riley was being used by the Initiative, and military guys, in my opinion can be very one-toned and boring. Which Riley was. Since the fall of the Initiative, Riley is starting to open up and explore HIS own horizons - with Buffy. I think he's wrong about Buffy and that she is in love with him. Last night proved to me how strong a character he has become by his statement - he wasn't brooding or being whimpy. He loves Buffy - with no expectations in return. Whats wrong with that? Thats pretty cool. As for Xander - I wish he'd get a haircut. Glad that they had a ep all about him - he's been the forgotten character for sometime now. During the first three seasons, he wasn't so much the dork they've made him become last season and of late. I hope they do bring back the backbone that Xander's been missing. And I also like Tara. I have no doubt that her, Dawn and Buffy's future will be running parallel this season. And ultimately presenting some beeg beeg revelations! Very exciting stuff!
As for Angel - last night's ep was very good stuff. I like the fact that Cordi is becoming stronger also. I'm tired of the Angel/Buffy crossovers - lets do a Cordi/Buffy crossover and let Cordi fight right alongside Buffy and ex-fellow Scoobs. Betcha they'd be pleasantly surprised to see that Cordi has grown significantly! Would be seriously interesting! As for the Wolfgang lawfirm; how tiring to see yet another shady lawfirm. Would have been cool if the Lyndsay-guy stayed ambivilant about which side he was really on. Oh well. Bringing back Darla is okay, but I wanted to see a stronger, bigger evil power to test Angel. Maybe next season?
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Yes, I am back to defend my points on the subject of film noir. Let me begin with the with the statement that I'm sure will booed and mocked by the general public: film noir is not a genre! Yes, I know that is tough to take but film noirs are just crime melodramas spruced up with a nearly homogeneous visual style. Film noir "black film" was discovered and named by French critics in 1946, when, seeing American films for the first time since 1940, they perceived a strange mood of cynicism, darkness, and despair in certain crime films and melodramas. They derived the term from the "Serie Noire" detective novels then popular in France, many of which were translations of works by members of the "hard-boiled" school of American crime writers, including Hammett, Chandler, and Cain. Many trace the origins back to "Stranger on the Third Floor" though "Double Indemnity" is the prototype for film noir. The basic theme of noirs is the depth of human depravity and the utterly unheroic nature of human beings-lessons that were hardly taught but certainly re-emphasized by the horrors of WWII. Most of the dark films of the late forties take the form of crime melodramas because the mechanisms of crime and criminal detection provide a perfect metaphor for corruption that cuts across concentional moral categories. Their protagonists include femmes fatales (though not always), paranoid private-eyes, fugitive couples, con-men, blackmailers, psychopathic illers, corrupt or victimized cops, and fugitive criminals. The visual style that makes these crime melodramas film noirs are what is key. Cinematographers rendered moral ambiguity palpably real through what has been called anti-tradtional cinematography. I will not rehash these techniques as I have already described them in little detail above. Noir draws a great deal on German Expressionism, as illustrated by the angular, unnatural compositions and the stark lighting. Film noir was created to a large extent by German and Eastern European expatriates, who received training at UFA. These directors include Lang, Wilder, Preminger, Brahm, Ulmer, Ophuls, and Bernhardt. Wartime innovations such as smaller camera dollies and portable power packs, higher speed lenses and more senstive, fine-grain film stocks simplified the logistics of location shooting and helped create for film noir a nearly homogeneous visual style. Thus, it is a combonation of these characteristics that make film noir a film noir and the second ep of Angel a crime melodrama. Just because it has a femmes fatale and corruption in society doesn't make it a film noir as stated by fuzzywookie. Also fuzzywookie, I was not debating whether anything was deserving of raves or not, just pointing out a misconception of film noir. I really don't care what audiences and critics are drawn to, that is not the point of film studies. Raving about a film because it has a great story does not a good movie make. So many other factors come into play. And Sleazy-G, color has nothing to do with noir. Yes Chinatown is a noir and is in color, so is The Long Goodbye, which is one of the best and underappreciated noirs that alters the noir visual style. And the Richie Rich comment, WHAT? I never said anything to the point that because it is in B&W and has "groofy" camera angles it's a noir. I've rambled looooong enough, so FLAME ON!
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Riley best written and LIKEABLE? The man gets 0 lines of ANY worth, is the most useless and annoying character to ever break into the Scooby ranks. I mean PLEASE, he's a pale shadow of Angel, and his "Manly-man" Manliness is annoying, pathetic, and too lame for words. He's less useless than Tara, who's at LEAST got something going for her -potential evil factor. Riley should've been executed for treason, just because he's too damn lame!!!
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i am just about fed up with all the complaining and flat thinking that Angel and Buffy fans dredge up every week- Whining about characters who dont get much airtime, on an ensemble show. Not recognizing the obvious, like the whole Tara "evil" (A-rat) thing. And, disliking a characters strickly for their personality traits like Tara and Riley (what do you want two Buffys?, three Willows?, four Xanders?) i may not like Whitebread-Riley as a person, but as a character in the show, he's perfect, you cant throw Buffy into another relationship with a dark guy. Look, the show may only last another season or two, so be happy. Do you want to return to the days of Knight Rider, Buck Rogers, and The A Team? Even the most piss poor episode of Buffy and Angel is ten times better than other shows on tv right now, and A thousand times better than youth oriented action fantasy shows in the past.
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Hey I liked the A-team! But about B fans I will say most fans here love the show and are only posting opinions about how a great show can be perfect
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His name's David Herman- he was in the initial cast of Mad TV, and was easily the funniest and most versatile cast member (their Phil Hartman, in other words.) Then he split to do bigger stuff, and didn't get anything, which is how he ended up in a supporting role on Angel. Now if they'd only cast Orlando Jones as Gunn's uncle or something...
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"out of nowhere via lame twist- sister"
Oh c'mon. Isn't it obvious? Dawn is Johnathan. He just got a more powerful wish.
- Glen -
SleazyG, what is up with that? Misspellings. Groofy instead of goofy. Oops. Guess what, I suck at spelling but we all can't be perfectionist like you. Oh, that's right. Upon re-reading your previous posts, I noticed the following spelling errors: wo, noiryou, Milennium, ver, and sesibilities. Don't bother me about spelling until you can do a perfect job yourself. For your other points: if you want to argue about books, I think my mom belongs to the Oprah book of the month club so maybe she would be interested in arguing about books with you. I however am not. I come here for one thing: discussions of film and television. You really believe that noir directors stylistic decisions are based solely on material? Please respond to this question. And I was not arguing that noir's sole distinguishing factor is lighting and camera angles. I did state that those teachniques seperate a noir from a crime drama. Like Miller's Crossing. Femmes fatale, corruption of society... not a noir but a crime/gangster drama. Nor was I stating, you so foolishly stated, that the noir visual style being present makes the work a noir. That is just plain foolish. Darkness and cynicism invaded all genres in the late-forties cinema, not simply that of the crime thriller and melodrama. Some of these films include Duel in the Sun, Rebecca, Gaslight, Cat People, I Walked with a Zombie, The Body Snatcher, even your holiday favorite SleazyG, It's a Wonderful Life. I hope that my post was error-free because I wouldn't want to hurt your delicate sesibilities.
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The best thing that could happen to BtVS is the removal of Riley,
as quickly as possible. All the characters on BtVS have been wacky and offbeat in some way. Unfortunately TPTB decided that adding a bland, boring, "normal" character (Riley, as if you didn't know) to the show in S4 would somehow increase the number of viewers. And now we have Dawn
to appeal to the younger teens.
How to ruin a great show.
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First, I liked the Buffy ep a lot better than the Angel ep. I actually got up to make a sandwich durring Angel. First: Buffy- I've been waiting over a season for a Xander episode. Thank you team Buffy! I really enjoyed following nerdy Xander... but given how they portrayed him last season, shouldn't his cool counterpart been, like, 1/8 his size? ;)!) Second, Anya is my second favorite character. How can you not like a girl that wants her boyfriend split in two for a threesome that "wouldn't be cheating." I fell off my couch... Riley continues to be a character I think has gotten a raw deal. I LIKE the guy. Maybe it's the fact that I'm a midwestern dude myself, but just because he doesn't wear black or crack a joke every five seconds, he's not worthless! His proclomation at the end of the ep knocked me for a loop. (Tho' if he and Buffy break up and Xander and Anya break up, which I hope doesn't happen, but IF THEY DO... hee hee. Geek fantasy time...)
I give it three and a half stars. As far as Angel goes, yeah. the episode was pretty stale. What got the show going in my opinion was that at the end of last season it hit a really good story arc. Between Faith's appearance in LA and the season ender, I was really jazzed about the show! So far, we haven't seen much story development, though. It looks like we could be heading in that direction, though. Remember, Buffy started it's second season without much direction, too. Only difference is it had only half a season of "demon of the week" where Angel has allready had time to get stale. Hopefully, they'll start moving a plot along soon. My review- two stars.
Finally, am I the only one that has gotten more out of Nabbit's four or five small appearances than Gunn's whole run on the show? I don't get why this guys supposed to be a great character. He bores the hell out of me. Tara is also a sore spot for me. I won't compare her to Oz. Oz was a fun character with a personality all his own. Tara is Willow-lite. If they make her evil, yeah that could certainly help, but right now I'm not interested. Please don't consider this an indictment as to the talent of Amber Benson or J. August Richards. They are both great actors. -
SleazyG, yes we have finally come full circle with this. Redemption, that's what its all about, and I EthanEdwards should know that better than anyone. Thank you for getting the Oprah joke. I knew you wouldn't be offended. As for discussions of literature, you are right. There is nothing wrong with those discussions, I just wanted to remove the film from its sourcework and investigate it. Anyway, I loved both Buffy and Angel last night and hope that they build on these episodes as the first two were weak (though Angel's second was alright). These film noir discussion are killing me though. You people need to stay on the subject. Oops, I mean me people!
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Seriously. This guy needs something -- more sarcasm, a sense of humor, to turn evil again...I always thought he was at his best as Angelus. Maybe they could somehow "release" part of Angelus so he is half&half? All Boreanez does is look confused or give brooding stares. Show how smart the guy is! He's lived for a long time, as someone mentioned. Let's see some of that experience work for him. I know he's "I need redemption" and all, but what we need is redemption PLUS. My plan has redemption PLUS personality -- Mr. Wheedon's is redemption MINUS. Hehehh...
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Oct 12, 2000 1:04:53 AM CDT
Sleazy...that stuff is cute and all but it comes out of left fie
by superninja
and usually seems totally out of character to me. Angel is how old, and he STILL isn't confident enough to dance with a girl? This is the kind of stuff that while cute, makes me roll my eyes. It just doesn't make sense to me and sometimes it makes Angel seem borderline retarded. If he fell under an age regression spell or something I would understand. But this is a grown man who has lived through centuries -- he should be confident or even OVER CONFIDENT at this point not doing a rain man routine. Don't get me wrong, I like him (I like his supporting cast more) but I think he could be better.
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Zathras approves of such refferences to the greatest of all 5-year dramas, Babylon 5. Zathras is pleased with Joss. Zathras is back. Has Zathras been missed, Zathras asks?
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That Riley character sucks thank god he's leaving, how could he ever match up to Boreanaz's brooding angel????
As for the baby sister thing, if she goes from being ugly annoying 'naomi wildman' duckling to ass kicking teenage swan like her big sister, then she could bring a whole new load of sex appeal to this show. How old is this kid???????? -
of course he woul dhave trouble fitting in with our society he is hundreds of years old so modern dancing music all that would seem weird plus he was stalking and then hiding from and hating humanity so long he has spent more lifetimes hating humans then actually living with them (remember he was a wreck of a human before he was bit!) and as far as the face off thing goes I LOVE Angellus and it would be cool to work him in but Toth is a lame demon of the week/weak! What if Angelw ere to subconsiously slip himself x (like when that girl did)and bring out the evil in himself.. You could stretch out a cat and mouse game between Angel an Angellus a whole season! Eventually the pills could affect him in such a way Angellus can come out at anytime...but honestly I think they want to get away from the Angel killer thing now that he has his own show.
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Angelus is for when times get hard, as is any potential Angel/Cordy romance. Heheh...
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Hi, last week i had company over from out of town during the season premiers. Because i never miss an EP of my favorite shows i almost forced them to watch them with me. Both visitors were very disappointed with Buffy and in the same tolkien both really liked Angel. Everyone is different but from hearing there comments (as new viewers) about the characters in each show, they were much more impressed by angel.. Can't wait for next week..
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...that Angel ep was pretty good. The kareoke guy's make up, though, was completely distracting, and I personally thought the "Cordy-Gunn" thing was forced and unnatural. I think that the Darla-Angel angle will be really interesting. But why can't Wesley have a story? Give this guy something to do!
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....and it's really quite obvious, when you think about it. The object of that spell was so that Willow would know where the cyber-demon Adam was, and Tara hid the dust she was supposed to contribute to that spell so that Willow wouldn't go chasing after Adam and get herself killed. That was supposed to be one of those "subtle" clues of the budding romance between Willow and Tara.
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