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PLAN OF ACTION!!!Additional Info: Official WB Word About BATMAN BEYOND: RETURN OF THE JOKER
Alright, it seems that we have begun to rattle the cage a bit so to speak. Various Talk Backers down below have begun calling WARNER HOME VIDEO (1-877-277-9272) and subjecting the poor folks on the phone line to an endless barrage of questions. Their responses have apparently been shifting from (We're adding more stuff to the DVD) to (We are having trouble transfering the film to DVD and VIDEO Formats) to (We want to move it to the higher profile Holiday release) to (We may SNIP SOMETHING OUT HERE AND THERE). Ahem...
Now I've been getting letters asking me... "Harry... What do we do?" Personally, I don't have much experience in this sort of thing... I am just a simple webmaster afterall... BUT I have been getting an awful lot of suggestions from folks. Everything from Ryder Truck ideas to writing and petition campaigns.
Can we out muscle some damn fool minded executive decisions? Right now with the whole John McCain and Lieberman thing going on... Hollywood is scared of them. Can geeks be scarier than Politicians? Well... I've attended enough Filk Singing circles to say... YES... YES we geeks can be scarier.
So... Here are the steps you can begin to take. First go to every newsgroup, web board, chat room and outlet for web fandom known to mankind. And spread your dissatisfaction.
Then... Everyone you know personally in life... the geeks you go see movies with locally... your girlfriend, boyfriend, aunt, uncle, mom, dad, little joey... WHOMEVER... Get them to sign a letter of dissatisfaction to send to Warner Brothers. (I'll be providing addresses below)
NOW... what should your letters say? Basically... let's be civil. We need to state that we understand the need to protect our children from possibly harmful or violent content.... BUT cutting and destroying the intent of the original filmmakers and not allowing that original vision to be seen or heard is WRONG in your eyes. Press for a dual release. One called BATMAN BEYOND: RETURN OF THE JOKER which will be this softened kiddie release.... and one called BATMAN BEYOND: THE JOKER STRIKES BACK (hey... why not) which will be the darker more serious... ORIGINAL version that folks have been seeing and raving about... which will be marketed to the older fans... and have different box art with a parental warning stating that: "THERE MAY BE CONTENT UNSUITABLE FOR YOUNGER CHILDREN. PURCHASE BATMAN BEYOND RETURN OF THE JOKER FOR THE SAFE FAMILY FRIENDLY VERSION"
This is reasonable. Have commentary on the second disk, and issue it 2 weeks after the initial release so that the initial WB KIDS promotions won't be affecting it's sales. That way Warners is appeasing parents and fans... the two market areas that love and embrace BATMAN BEYOND.
Now... Where to send them letters.... I wholeheartedly recommend you send them to the following:
Warner Brothers HOME VIDEO,
c/o Warner Brothers Animation,
4000 Warner Blvd - Bldg 178,
Burbank, CA 91522
So, the question is right now. How passionate are you about this sort of thing? I'm also creating a poll about the entire ordeal. Be sure to express your opinion there as well... and after 2 days of the poll being up, print it out and include it in your mail you send out. Also... feel free to print out the below TALK BACK. Nothing like big mounds of paper with angry letters being stuffed in people's IN BOXES
Now... Hop to it mis amigos. There's a flying rodent and clown to save...
BELOW IS THE OLD STORY THAT I POSTED EARLIER...
Hey folks, Harry here... Ya know, I would like to say I believe Warner Brothers Publicity... I really would. But after YEARS of deception and mangling of the truth... I can't trust them. In addition, after the post yesterday... I began to get reports from folks around the net. First... here's what the official story is sounding like...
Harry,
I'm sure you've heard about this, but over at Comics Continuum's
website, they hint that the delay of Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
is due to additions to the video release, not subtractions.
"A publicity representative for the video confirmed the new release
would be during the holiday season but could not confirm a date. Retail
web sites such as Amazon.com are listing the film's release as Tuesday,
Dec. 12.
According to the representative, the film's delay is for added features
for the DVD and to make it a holiday release. An official press release
on when Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker will reach stores is expected
soon."
Sounds promising to me. I just hope it's genuine.
-Cowblaster
And then this is what I got from Sam Lowry
Harry,
Sam Lowry here, with an urgent message out of Information
Retrieval. A source involved with DVDs over at Warners has alerted me
to a startling situation. It appears that the Batman Beyond movie,
Return of the Joker, is going to be re-edited. Seems the latest survey
of parents regarding violent content aimed at children has caused quite
a stir and Batman Beyond is beign targeted for some cuts, including the
DVD. What he told me was that due to the
recent congressional hearings regarding violent content aimed and marketed
towards children, Warners was gonna trim stuff from the video and DVD
release. He found out yesterday.
I was VERY fortunate to see a copy of this film last week, and I
must say this is a SUPREME disappointment. The Batman Beyond Movie was
an amazing, tragic, thrilling, and horrific piece of animation. I was
surprised it even got made, due to the fact of the violence in the movie
and Warners' inability to make anything they release with the Dark
Knight decent. Characters are murdered, mind raped, tortured, etc...
This is NOT a movie I would market to children. The box art I saw
indicated this film would be receiving a G. It should be a PG-13 as far
as I'm concerned. What it shouldn't be is edited to remove content
parents will feel promotes violence.
The violence is important to the story, in conveying the tragedy,
pain, and sorrow it can bring to people's lives. Joker goes TOO far in
this movie for reasons that will chill Batman fans to the core. Joker
is not funny in this movie, his jokes twist the knife he has placed in
Bruce Wayne's/Batman's heart. He is not the darkly humorous character
of the animated series. He is as perverse and debased as the Joker of
the Killing Joke. Paul Dini and company have finally realized the Joker
as he was meant to be, a fearsome monster who has the gall to smile and
giggle as he tortures you. You will understand WHY Bruce is the way he
is in Batman Beyond, you will know why he is bitter, and it will break
your heart and NOT be what you expect. The film cleverly leads you down
one road, then diverts you down another. This is as good an effort as
Mask of the Phantasm. This film will make you believe Terry McGuiness
IS Batman. After this movie, he earns the title as far as I'm concerned
I thought you should hear this, Mr. Knowles. At the very least, a
stink should be raised and those few who have seen the unedited, true
version already should count themselves lucky.
Sam Lowry
Agent# DZ-015
Information Retrieval
And then there is this that Dennett Reins sent in...
Dennett Reins here with an unfortunate scoop on BATMAN BEYOND: Return of the
Joker.
Being a fan of both Batman animated series, I was salivating in anticipation
for this film. And I marveled at how well it was crafted. It returned to
its dark edge, much like MASK OF THE PHANTASM. There were inspiring moments
of the Dark Knight's return. Extreme actions, death, bad bad
guys...generally a noir kids movie. And it was great.
I'm sorry to say...it was too great. WB is postponing the release of BATMAN
BEYOND: ROTJ to January in attempts to cut out the "violence." To those who
have seen the film, you know what I'm talking about. Two scenes in
particular are going to be re-edited. And I thought that was the freshest
part to this series...the added loathsomeness of the Joker, the insanity of
his mayhem, it had been captured so well for this film. Instead, WB is
softening the Joker's lunacy.
Is it because of Al Gore's attacks? Perhaps. We'll never know. But at
least I scored a copy of the "original" release before it was recalled.
To fans of the Batman Beyond series...it's still a damn good flick. To
those searching for a darker knight? Sorry, you won't find it here.
Unless we change the minds of the WB suits and demand a release of the film
as it was intended.
It's up to you now, the public voter, return the power to the people...it's
all up to YOU!
Dennett Reins resigning.
And Anonymous chimed in with this...
Harry, I. I have some very bad news regarding the
upcoming release of the Batman Beyond video. I know
some people who work for the Animation department.
Here's the scoop. The video is going back into the
editing room. The rising issue of violence in
children's programming will result in some of the best
parts of the movie being removed and reedited.
Revisions and retakes are now being done. It looks
like the copy that your previous reviewers have seen
can be considered the uncut version. It's a real shame
because I have seen the original cut, and some of the
best stuff will be lost in the editing process.
Bummer!
Anonymous
And the most damning came in from Jasper Sitwell
Hey Harry & Co.
I have a friend who is working on the editing of the animated Direct-To-Video
Movie Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. (Or should I say "re-editing?")
Recently, a screening of the "final" cut was held for Warner Bros.
executives. (this was probably the screening that was reviewed by another
one of your spies, recently.) The creators were justifiably proud. And the
Warner Video Executives were blown away by the accomplishments of the
creative team. The WB Network Execs, however, had a different reaction.
Before the screening was even over, they were out making phone calls. "This
is way too violent!" they cried. "We can never broadcast anything like this!"
Well, duh. This was not meant to be broadcast. The cut they were shown was
meant for video release. However, this explanation has apparently fallen
upon deaf ears. Because the WB Network Execs are having such a tremendous
hissy, this great Batman Beyond Movie (which, by some accounts, is the best
version of any Batman Feature, ever) is now going back under the scissors in
order to "tone it down." The wonderful music score (which had been "locked")
is also now having to be adjusted to comform with the trims.
Why they just can't leave this puppy alone, I don't know. Why can't there
just be a direct to video cut, and then a separate, different, toned-down,
broadcast cut? After all, isn't that what's normally done when feature films
are shown on broadcast television?
No. Once again, we the fans have to suffer and be condescended to, simply
because someone at the corporate level is too lazy, too tight-fisted, or too
creatively short-sighted (or perhaps all three) to arrange for a
"direct-to-video" cut, and a separate "broadcast" cut of this potentially
great film. I guess our best hope now is to pray that somebody saves a copy
of the orignal cut so we might one day get a "Director's Cut" out on video.
Call me Jasper Sitwell.
Now, I don't know folks... Do I believe Warner Publicity... a department that's sole existence is to give us all the impression that it is A-OK.... OR... A bunch of first time spies that all claim to 'know somebody that knows something somewhere'?
Now I'm an optimist... Perhaps Warner Publicity is being honest and forthcoming with the truth... And perhaps we will be getting a dvd filled to the brim with extras and deleted scenes and alternative moments... but then... Why is the VIDEO not coming out on the 24th of October? If all of this is just a happy thing, how come the producers of BATMAN BEYOND are saying "No Comment" to people like me and Comics Continium?
Well, I suppose we'll all just have to wait and see... Beginning about a week before the dvd hits shelves there will be some review copies of it on the market.... we'll know for certain then. Keep your fingers crossed....
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that our wants will not be deprived and the original version of this film is released. I do get the feeling Warner Bros. is lying to save themselves from the backlash of angry fans. I've been looking forward to "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" for a long time now. If the studio suits wind up shafting everyone, expect a big run on bootlegged versions on e-bay and other sites. If this re-editing news is true, I'll be paying my for the bootleg while I in turn will be giving WB the shaft, I can tell you that much. Take care
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... if it IS being edited, is that sometime after the first release will be an uncut release. They can make it a super duper collector's edition as well, to make it up to us for having to wait so long. Another example of a DVD where two versions were released, one for adults and one for children, was disney's Tarzan, although on that case the content of the actual film was not changed, only the extras.
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I have to take WB to task on one other element: Their box art is always a little questionable in quality. My idea: Solid black box, red BB emblem at the bottom, faint outline of the BB figure around it, and red circuitry lines in the background that eventually align to form the facial features of the Joker. I just watched the express.com trailer... I got chills. If there must be any cuts, offer VHS in TWO VERSIONS and the DVD with parental lockout.
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If anybody... ANYBODY... has access to a copy of this original version... Please contact me! I am going mad! MAD I TELL YOU!!
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please emial me if anyone has a copy of this movie ill pay for it if you have it i must see it thanks email is greenspt@flash.net
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One: WB doesn't have a very good excuse, is it? I mean, if there were color problems or pressing problems or something, it would ring more true. But more special features? Doesn't that mean that somehow they have to actually put some on? You can't delay a DVD because of "added features" then release it month late without any extras. Two: Why would WB lie if they already know that they could be caught? Screener tapes are out there, it would be pretty easy to see if some edits were made. I'm not defending them, I'm just saying that maybe there is hope. Then again, a week after H'wood was lashed for marketing violence towards children, this could all be very, very real.
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If this is true, this is CENSORSHIP. Now, I'll be the first to admit that this doesn't mean that government censors are getting their hands on this and deciding what is "acceptable", but the Gore/Lieberman ticket has THREATENED as much if "evil" Hollywood doesn't change it's "nefarious" ways. Now, I'm not naive in thinking that it's not the view of some Republicans that some changes should be made, but when most of their diatribe is aimed at PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, I can't see them joining Lieberman and both Gores in a Hollywood witchhunt. And I can see the cowardly suits (played by Wilford Brimley and Don Ameche) wheezing into their phones and calling their assistants to get on record as being "for America's kids" and "against the kind of violence shown on TV that causes such great tragedies as Columbine"... Well, if all we do is boycott this thing, they will just think it didn't do well and use that to kill any future Dini-lead projects. We need that petition thing to send to them... You don't REALLY think we should leave it up to the WB suits to figure it out on their own, do you? Look, if there's any doubt about CENSORSHIP being in play here, consider this: The original creators' vision is not going to see the light of day because of GOVERNMENT pressure. 'nuff said.
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I, like many of AICN's visitors and reviewers, am a huge comic book fan. I have been for quite some time now. I haven't read a whole lot of Batman comics, as I tend to stick mainly to Marvel, but I am fully aware that the animated series' Joker has been so much more watered-down and clownish than the comics' Joker that they're practically two different characters. I was hoping this movie would finally be my chance to see the cruel, sadistic Joker of lore - the Joker who murdered the second Robin, the Joker who maimed Barbara Gordon, and did it all with a smile on his face - would finally be animated in all his evil glory. Sadly, the suits seem to be taking that away from me and every other Batman fan who feels the same way, just because they're too paranoid about the movie not being P.C. and castrated enough to keep some imaginary protective bubble around kids (because let's face it, kids know about violence and most other bad things by the time they hit 2nd grade...It's in the news graphically almost 24/7). I'm usually one of those people who likes to do things by-the-book and make sure everything I do is done the right way, but if all that's going to be out there is some watered-down crap, I'm sure as hell gonna be searching for a bootleg for myself. I've seen editing for American kids take the balls out of Dragon Ball Z for the past 4 or 5 years and I'd hate to see it happen to Batman too.
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Why are the movie studios ignoring the built-in ratings capabilities of DVD players? If I understand correctly, the DVD format allows each scene to have its own rating. The player can lock out scenes with a given rating, and just skip them, moving on to the next. They can put both edits on the disc, and allow parents to choose the version they want their kids to see. Granted, this assumes that parents read the manuals, which is rarely the case, but it's a step in the right direction. Why else does that feature exist?
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If they DO kiddie-edit this, ill be first in line ON ANY PIRATE SITE OUT THERE to get a copy. If this turns out bogus, im even ready to demean myself to a VCD version. Warner - Get your shit together. A lot of us out here are adults, im closing in on 30, and i still buy comics (Now mostly VERTIGO stuff, but also the occasional MARVEL or DC title) Comics and animated movies are not just for kids anymore. Where do you people think the money is, fools? Only so much allowance goes on Pok
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...I can't tell you how disappointed I am. Best Buy had Batman DVD for sale for $9.99.I said what the hell and bought it.I am returning it tonight-I forgot how bad a movie is is, and now this is how they treat the best Batman movie yet made. I don't have any hope for Year One,no matter who's involved.
I have a screener for this.I was so blown awasy by the sequence in question here,I rewound it and rewatched it twice-IT"S FANTASTIC!!!!It should be rated PG,but remember it's a cartoon!JEEZ!
The Joker is so "on" here. True it is the Joker from Killing Joker,his dialogue is amazing,simply amazing.This backflash sequence is the best I've ever seen, live action or animated. AMAZING,AMAZING,AMAZING.Thank you Paul Dini! I will guess the scenes in question are(SPOILER).............................................................................................the torture of Robin and the Joker stabbing Batman with a knife.
Too bad. If this is recut I won't buy the DVD,I'll just watch the screener forever.They should release more than one version-one for the kiddies and one for us who want it the way Paul Dini intended. -
Oct 04, 2000 7:26:32 AM CDT
Wasn't the violence edited out of Bugs Bunny in the early 80's?
by cruel shoes
Thus sparing the generation that would come after mine from being influenced by such violence. Oh by the way, THAT particular generation was the first to murder each other in massive scales in their High Schools. Perhaps if Bugs Bunny were still blowing Elmer's head off with a big ass shotgun, a child or two of the Columbine Generation might have tapped Mom or Dad on the shoulder and asked a pertinent question. Oh, wait, I forgot, parents have nothing to do with the outcome of their child. The success/failure rate of all children falls on the shoulders of Jack Valenti. I want an apology from the parental action groups of the 80's for the editing of Bugs Bunny, and then I want them to apologise for Columbine. A friend showed me an old comic book with and ad for a B B Gun in it. There was a 12 year old kid with a look of pure glee on his face. My friend had a pop culturally superior "it's funny because we know better now, in 2000, where we don't make mistakes" kind of laugh at it. But do you think if Old Pa Klebold had bought his son a B B Gun and spent a couple Saturday afternoons showing him the proper way to carry it, load it, and what not to do, that he would've grown up with such disrespect for firearms? Banning information and experience and the possibility of discussion of a topic does not make the problem fail to exist, it only makes those who have banned the topic from existence feel that things are getting better. I suggest they all stand on a bridge and chant "gravity doesn't exist, never has" 100 times, no 500 times (so it'll really go away) and then jump.
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...and should be created and marketed with that in mind. The self-absorbed refusal of the last two generations of adolescents and adults to grow up and embrace mature forms of entertainment shouldn't be permitted to rob kids of simple, innocent entertainment. You overgrown doofuses have already taken Halloween away from the kids; leave cartoons alone.
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In addition to being one of the most obvious trolls I've ever seen, the point of view he espouses is absurd.
The idea that an entire medium is good only for one market - and could not possibly have any appeal beyond said market - is quite simple the silliest thing I've heard today (and I work at a newspaper, so that's saying something!).
Were he to suggest that foreign movies could only be appreciated by art professors, or that novels are only meant for college students, no one would take him seriously.
That shouldn't change just because his targets are cartoons or comics. -
Comics & Cartoons are for children? WTF? Are you still living in the 70
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If anyone could send me a copy of the screener I would pay them whatever amount of money they ask. Now, if I get my hands on a copy I will make sure to make millions of copys for everyone who doesn't want a watered down crap version of this movie for FREE. I do distribute fansubs so I can make a hefty amount of copies in a short amount of time. Just email me and lets see what happens
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I have the equipment to make good SVCD copies off most of the common sources at my disposal - whether WB releases this film uncut or not, I can tell you that I will have a good copy - no matter how long it takes me to find it. I'd pay for it if they released it, but I will not buy or otherwise support needless censorship of this sort.
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Harry, start a patittion (or however y'spell it) now, do it now and I, and every person I can find from the aniame fans I know to the comic geeks will sign it. thats at least seventy people just from the groups I can wrangle. we have to show these jackasses that people over the age of 15 are fanaticly interested in animation. the anime fans I know have been awating this as a kind of second coming of American animation. we want the Otaku of the USA to have something to be proud of. I personaly will refuse to buy anything but the untouched version of this film, and if you make one, I will try to convince everyone I can to sign a pattiton that sas so.
another battle for creative freedom is begining, will the rest of you give up before it begins? or rise up in one voice and tell Washington that they can sit on it and spin?
I dont know about you but I'm not backing down, if we don't start to fight this NOW, it wont get fought. -
For all of you fanboys out there, I call you to rally behind the only word that might make WB listen!
BOYCOTT !!!!!
("FIREBOMB" also works here, but I hear whispers that it's illegal..)
I was ready to buy this DVD opening day, sight unseen. If it's a cut version, I won't even rent it. I'm just not interested. And yes, the Pirate market will be phenomenal for this thing. So those of you with screener copies, start your engines. And just to educate this angry fanatic, could someone tell me what a VCD is? -
So, what can we do as consumers? Is there an executive or department at Warner that we can email or snail mail? We as adults (since this IS going to be marketed to adults, right Warner :-) need to do more than just post talk backs about this. If anyone can provide information about how we can apply leverage to these people, we need it now.
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VCD is Video CD - they're playable in most DVD players, and virtually any computer than can decode MPG's. The quality is generally around VHS, though it can be better or worse depending on who handles the job. Guess what the "S" stands for.
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The most disturbing sense I get from this story (and I suspect it to be true) is the timing, as I seriously doubt WB would be getting so uptight about scenes of excess violence were it any other time than an election year. Here, perhaps fearing that should either Bush or Lieberman get into office with their anti-Hollywood sabres at the ready, that Hollywood could face some type of creative threat.
Thus, WB is behaving itself for now, and waiting for the political dust to settle after November 7th.
It's too bad, all around. I'd really like to see that uncut footage. However, at best such an uncut DVD would likely fail to see distribution until next year. But at worst, it might also never see the light outside of Warner's vaults.
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I know that a few years back, I bought a Street Fighter animated movie. There were 2 versions. A G and a PG 13. I don't think there's anything wrong with a toned down one for kids but I do not think the real fans should have to suffer for it. Give us the real deal, to us, the big kids!
-Sismik Lad -
Ghibi, if Wb has its way, then a bootleg version is pretty much the only way anyone will see the REAL movie. I have done if for years now with Dragonball Z. I and many other fans have watched DBZ with shitty quality while the show is shown on TV in great quality but....its censored and watered down. Plus the bootleg version is not going to be bad quality, if it is copied with good video equptment, i should look great. lets hope the WB won't censor it though.
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doesn't the fact that they're trying to give a movie like this a "G" rating indicate that the industry IS aiming violent content at children? It is one thing to produce violent content for adults and allow parents to decide if their child is ready to view it, and another to market it for children. This does not sound like a G-rated movie to me. When are they going to advertise this movie? During the afternoon cartoons? And yet, I don't think they wrote this with the younger viewers in mind. Would it not be better to simply rate the movie as it deserves to be rated, and market it for the young adult/teen kids (who would have been at Cartoon age for the original batman animated series), advertise it during the WB teen shows (it is WB-affiliated, right?), rather than cut it? The whole thing stinks.
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that the WB can advertise in a number of places besides its cartoon shows.. They can market it to Batman fans, comics fans, and during their older-skewed shows, instead of relegating it to the cartoon block. Villiage People I heartedly disagree with -- cartoons can be a medium for adults as Japan has shown time and time again, there just needs to be a seperation of the two.. kiddie cartoons should not be lumped in with the ones written with adults in mind. It's all yet another example of how studios circumvent the ratings system to get more profit, and it's the fans who lose.
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...to panic unnecessarily. Although it's true that there is a certain amount of election-year politicking on the issue from BOTH parties, the fact of the matter is that the politicos have only focused on the MARKETING of violent and/or sexual materials, and not the content. All Warner Bros. has to do is put a rating sticker on the box and avoid aiming their advertising to 6-year-olds, and no one will complain. While it's easy to blame the Democrats/Republicans/Congress, I have not heard ANY politician claim that movies and or television shows should be re-edited or censored for content.
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Don't give 'em the cheddar til they give us the content. If a kid can't figure out that movies are entertainment and not bibles for self-damnation then they've failed a test of life. No big deal, natural selection can be a bitch.
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Save your edits for the TV version. Don't f*ck with the DVD!! As for the grim escalated violence, I'm telling you a warning label will suffice along with a PG-13 rating. The industry invented rating systems and warning labels so that gross artistic censorship would NOT have to take place. How dare you turn these parental information devices into yet another damned marketing tool?! And why on earth are you boughing to election year pressure? Don't you realize that the issues/platforms brought up while campaigning are merely lies told by the politicians in order to get elected? C'mon, where you been the past 35 years? The heat is off of Hollywood after Election Day. The "Hollywood is evil" thing only happens once every four years. You have a mere four weeks left to endure it, then you can release the Batman Beyond film the way the artists intend it and the way the fans want it. Don't f*ck with the fans, we WILL turn on you...
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If someone starts a petition, I'll definitely sign it, and I know a lot of other people who will, too. I don't know if I agree with a boycott, though. Like someone already said, if a boycott of the watered down version has any siginificant effect on video and DVD sales, the WB execs would likely just assume that it didn't sell because it was no good, and would threaten any future Paul Dini-helmed projects. I want to support Dini and company, we know that they're capable of producing masterpieces even if the people they work for never let us see those masterpieces. At any rate, whichever is true, it can't hurt anything to let WB know how we as adult fans and collectors feel about this rumor, whether it's through a petition or a letter writing campaign. If somebody does start a petition, please let me know, and I will link to it from my web site, Joker's Realm (welcome.to/DivineMadness), which is frequented by a lot of hard core Joker fans whom I am sure will be willing and eager to participate in a campaign to preserve this appropriately evil version of the Joker.
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So once again, my entertainment options are being limited to those of a six-year-old child because somebody decided Hollywood should raise our children. Sorry, I've been six years old, I'd like to think I've grown a little beyond that now. I'm not saying we should be letting children watch R or X rated movies, but the longer you shelter a child from the realities of this world, you have one of two things happen: either they're completely unprepared for it when they encounter it on their own, or they become even MORE curious about these "taboo" subjects and begin to explore them without the benefit of parental guidance. I mean, maybe Hollywood DID target children with some of their advertising, but who is ultimately repsonsible for whether or not the child sees the product? The PARENTS. Just because a child sees something they want on TV doesn't mean they have to see it. Someone gave that child money to go. Someone took that child to a theater. Someone saw the child was underage and took their money anyway. And NONE of those someones was Hollywood. But people are always more willing to cast stones than to look in the mirror, so we have stupidity like this happening.
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If you have the uncut version, and willing to make copies of it to sell. E-mail me at digitalknight16@hotmail.com
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Read between the lines Harry. Another word for PR is BS. After reading all of the spy stuff you received I find it hard to believe that they aren't making horrifying cuts. If the ROTJ is released with major edits
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...you're exactly the kind of self-important, overgrown kid I was hoping to catch in my net.
Thanks for a couple of minutes of easy entertainment. :-)
("living in the Seventies" was worth the price of admission alone. ROFL.) -
I for one, and I urge everyone to do this, to go over to the W.B. website, get every e-mail address you can get and write to them telling them you will not purchase, rent, or watch Batman Beyond:The Return of the Joker until a version in release in an 'UNCUT' and 'UNEDITED' state.
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A simple boycott of the video might tell WB that the Batman Beyond/Paul Dini project just wasn't a success. Now I'm not saying drop the boycott, be good little automatons, and buy the video for Paul Dini's sake. I just think that this point really nails home the need for a petition as well. We need to not only make sure that a censored version fails, we need to make sure that WB knows why it failed. So I'm gonna go check outthe official WB Batman/Superman Adventures site and find a contact address. If anybody already has it, post it now. If anyone has a better idea, I'm all ears. I've got me an industrial-grade, 12-foot long, stainless steel with 24-karat gold trim, customized pnuematic crowbar, and I intend to either help pry the WB's exec's collective heads out of their collective asses, or shove the whole uncomfortable contraption right up there to make it a little more crowded. Who's with me?
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I am, Mr. Furious. Let's keep in touch on this petition idea, kids. The net is a powerful tool. Let's use it to make our voices heard....just constructively.
mail: chv@dead-projectionist.com
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Remember when the idiots at Buena Vista were out to ruin the upcoming Princess Mononoke DVD? Well, if Nausicaa.net could have a successful petition against the simians at Buena Vista Home Video, the WE CAN TOO against W.B. Harry, who do we write? Who is the best target for floods of mail, faxes, e-petitions, and angry phone calls? YOU GODDAMN DIRTY APES! Leave the DVD content alone, RATE it properly as PG, and don't run violent ads during the Histeria! show. Is that so damn hard? .............. Geez, THE IRON GIANT was properly rated as PG, and nobody had to cut anything out of that amazing masterpiece! Get some perspective, WB, and stop playing global parent!
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I combed all over the WB website and they don't post their e-mail or contact info anywhere. The best I could come up with was their customer service form: http://www.wb.com/pages/help/help_feedback.jsp ... I couldn't find a snail mail address, either. We could all go bombard their form mailer with protests, but that would probably just make them angry and cause them to take their form offline. If anybody can find out actual e-mail addresses for the people in charge of this thing, or better yet, a snail mail address where we can send real, tangible letters (hard letters on actual paper tend to get attention better than e-mail), please post them here.
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Shove that frickin' frog right up your frickin' arse!!!
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I havent yet found a sinle address there to voice complaints, but I've been going to every page on the site and emailing every address I find with the same letter of dissatisfaction about the butchering of BB:TRotJ. I urge all the other fans to do the same until a formal petition is drawn up here....
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...for this, buddy! Some Democrats! If they'd kept their mouths shut this wouldn't be happening. The pieces of hypocritical bullshit artists! VOTE FOR NADER! VOTE FOR CHANGE! VOTE FOR COMMON SENSE!
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http://www.wb.com/pages/messageboard/board.jsp?board=-536882600
Try linking to the above. It's WB's community message board regarding all things "Batman Beyond." Perhaps it isn't the most effective tactic right now, as WB could just unplug their server & erase all anti-censorship posts, but it's a start.
Jean, write me if you wanna team-up on drafting a basic petition about this.
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hey guys, don't know if this will help but i did some digging and the WB Network/Warner Bros. Animation/Warner Bros. TV mailing address is........
4000 Warner Blvd. Building 178, Burbank CA 91522. let's get a petition started and flood these pricks. email me at lindelos@hotmail.com -
Ok, well this all sucks royally. On the other hand, I'm not expecting the worse on this one. I actually expected something like this might happen a few months ago once word started going about how violent ROTJ was going to be (of course this only fueled my desire to see it).
The reason I'm not expecting the worse, is because as a die-hard Buffy The Vampire Slayer fans know, we went through some of the worst censorship at the end of the 3rd season, the same time as the Columbine murders. When the WB decided not to show the season finale in the US, they made one HUGE mistake; they had already shown the episode in Canada. Within days, legions of fans had already begun the bootlegging (I still have mine as a souviner), and the best part was, no one was charging more than 5 bucks, roughly the price of the tape and postage. Warner Bros. already made the mistake of realeasing hundreds of screening copies of ROTJ, and if these censoring rumors are true, I hope the fans with the tapes will begin distributing as many copies as they can make of the uncut version. Still, at the risk of hurting sales if Warner decides not to cut the DVD, it would be smarter to wait until the truth is revealed. but if worse comes to worse, indystokes@aol.com wants a copy :) -
I just talked to "Josh" at WB Home Video who said that the reason it was delayed was because they didn't want it to get lost in the "Halloween movies", so they decided to release it closer to the holidays in hope that people would buy it as a gift, etc....blah blah. Now this I actually DO believe, it makes sense. I asked him if anything was being cut out, he said "NO." I said, "Anything added?" He said, "Actually, they may add to the DVD now that there is more time." ALL OF THESE THINGS IN QUOTES ARE EXACT QUOTES. So...now let's see...
I personally believe this theory. So, let's ride this one a little longer before we march...hehe.
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I can't see how they can cut this and make it work.They WILL have to make new scenes to fill in the blanks.And the end of the last Batman/Joker confrontation doesn't make sense........(spoilers) without the stabwound!AAARRRGGGHHH!
LEAVE THIS MOVIE ALONE!!!!
BTW,This film runs only 74 minutes as it is. -
Oct 04, 2000 12:44:17 PM CDT
why does no one use the dvd parental controls function, we can c
by sonatinas
i mean, congress and shit talk about parental controls and all that, but no1 uses it cept the porn people
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Village People you are one of the stupidest people out there. You cannot pigeonhole something as only for children. Comics and cartoons are for everyone, I'm assuming if you have kids you don't sit and watch cartoons with them, and if you do do you laugh and chuckle and say aww only kids would love this. Idiot. I assume you have never been to Japan before. I never have either, but over there comics and cartoons are for everyone. They have the kids shows and they have the adult shows and comics. There comics and cartoons are a true art form. I am 27 years old and I must be a big loser because I like comics and cartoons. I must also live in my parent's basement and am a perpetual virgin, I mean that's what kid's are right? You don't know me so don't even dare calling me a child. Oh and if you are getting off on having someone respond so boisterously to your idiotic postings I feel pity for you. Cartoons are for everyone, ask anyone. Hell my girlfriend has a big collection of Disney films and she doesn't have any kids. Is she anticipating having some just to share these cartoons with. She hasn't told me anything about children yet, we like the films and we enjoy them. Say what you like, Cartoons are fun, ask anyone, they will say they all secretly love to watch the Charlie Brown Christmas special, of Garfield, hell the Transformers and Gi Joe are making a comeback. Hate to break this to you Village people, there are a lot more of us out there who enjoy the animated/cartoon world, and we all are not losers who live in our parent's basements. Idiot...
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"Josh" at WB Home Video in Burbank, says, "Yeah what happen was everybody saw it and like thought WOW this could stand on its own as a theatrical release, so we wanted to wait until Halloween was over."
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Harry --
Ya think since you and Dini are buddies, you'd have some pull and get some sort of "real" scoop out of this? Or maybe an official announcement from the DubbyaBee? Seems odd that you've really added NO insight (or is that incite, to you Harry? Piss off the geeks, Harry's website makes money...) to this at all, in fact I found more information with one phone call than you've provided in two days and you are "friends" with the fuckin' writer!
EVERYONE -- Harry is full of shit here and I don't like it. I think there is much more to this than it seems.
First of all, why does the website say OCtober 24 but the poster in my room says OCtober 31? Then they changed the date from October 31 to December 12...like two weeks ago. And suddenly, when news is slow, Harry pops this up. I dunno. Seems like publicity for his buddy? Maybe. Slow news day? Maybe. Fire up the fanboys? Maybe. Maybe a little bit of all these things. But as far as I'm concerned Harry you SUCK as a journalist. For the following reasons:
1. You failed to break the story until days if not weeks later.
2. You offered NO insight other than..."Hmmm...let's see..."
3. You have been outscooped in one phone call. Poor.
4. You are friends with the main man on the project and all you tell us is "No Comment." What the hell is that? Get more out of Dini and don't tell us his name. Make him your "Deep Throat." Think Harry. Or are you really one of those fanboy losers who'd rather say "I know Paul Dini then actually get the facts for the story." I think you get off on the name dropping.
5. Let's stop posting "I knew a guy who knew this guy..." Facts, fatty. Facts. Get them right. Get a name. Get a quote. Otherwise it didn't FUCKING happen.
More to come...
The fatman's reign will tumble... -
Stone: Thanks for that info. Hopefully, your WB Home Vid buddies are being straight with you - but just in case, I've drafted a protest letter and fired copies to Jean to mull over. We'll see what happens, I guess.
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I've got to get in on this action here too, I mean I bought the Batman Beyond DVD recently to psyche myself up For Return of the Joker, now its getting screwed with? I forget who drafted a petition, but I want in, so I'm giving my support to us fans out there that are tired of being patronized and belittled. Well, send me any ideas anyone has at hedbangah@netscape.net, and send the WB(We Blow) a nice strong message.
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I have nothing original to say about what WB is doing. It is just more censorship and letting children decide what *I* get to watch! If the movie is cut, I will not buy a copy from WB and in any way support them. If anyone has a copy of the unedited movie and could copy it for me, I would be VERY interested and willing to pay! So please contact me a mary414@hotmail.com
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forgot to mention that I too would love a bootleg and would pay a good price for one if there is any out there, please email me at hedbangah@netscape.net. WB still sucks
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Probably Dini & Co. as well. I'm such a comic geek, that much is obvious, but at this point, I'm almost wishing they had never made this film. To tease us with what it could be, then to released a pared down version is just horrendous. This is a HORRIBLE PR debacle on the part of the WB. They should've controlled the screening environment more tightly if they never wanted word of an "edgier" version to get out. Tragic.
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Oct 04, 2000 1:29:51 PM CDT
Holidill: "I am 27 years old and I must be a big loser "
by village people
I love you guys. I really, really do. Thanks again. :-)
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....seems like alot of guys want bootlegs of the uncut version.You've lost about some $$$ on this thread alone.
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Oct 04, 2000 1:34:58 PM CDT
Actually, Miller's Dark Knight was censored too... (sorta spoile
by rap12
...in that a DC guy once told me that Frank Miller's original intent was to show exactly what did happen to Jason Todd -- tortured, raped, and murdered by the Joker. DC put their foot down at this and instead issued a cleaner version of the story in the "Death in the Family" storyline. The reason I mention spoiler is that Cerebus mentioned something along these lines before. In any case, there is no reason to believe anything Warner's says (remember Iron Giant?). By the way, Village People is an idiot. Peace.
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Oct 04, 2000 1:40:23 PM CDT
By the way, if you listened to the Senate hearings on "Violence
by superninja
Only two of the big studios, Dreamworks and I believe United Artists, refused to cowtow by saying that certain films that had historical significance (ie Saving Private Ryan) or important lessons (American Beauty) would be adamantly kept away from younger viewers. Every other exec was falling over themselves to bend over for McCain and Co. I was going to vote for Gore/Lieberman, but at this point, I'm seriously reconsidering due to their pandering attacks on the media. I DO agree this film, if as dark as described, should get a PG-13 rating, and not a G. But that is Warner's own fault for greenlighting it in the first place and slapping on the wrong rating. I'll say it again -- GET YOUR PR $HIT TOGETHER WB. This is a nightmare for the non-kiddie fans of Batman. This is your AUDIENCE that brought in so much money on the live-action Batman and Batman Returns. These are the people you're screwing over who will see a live action Batman Beyond and Year One film. Think.
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Over on Shane Glines' site's message board he replied to a post about this same subject.
re: Batman Beyond Movie Gets Cut?
I wish I could say something about this, but i'd better just keep my mouth shut; I may need to work for the W.B. again someday. Your best bet is ain't it cool news.
S.
If anyone is unaware, Shane is a Character Designer who's worked on Batman/Superman/Batman Beyond.
http://www.shaneglines.com or for the message board address http://pluto.beseen.com/boardroom/i/51606 -
Well.... Let me find my dictionary......Hmmmm..."Self-important" = Confident. Possibly an inflated ego, but still confident...."Overgrown Kid"....Yes..There it is...Overgrown kid...Well, thats basically an adult, right? A kid thats overgrown? You
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Dini said "No comment" not to just Harry but to other outlets. That is not good news when the creator, who should be proud of his product refuses to affirm that DVD extras are being added for a Christmas release. If that were the case, I think Dini would be MORE THAN HAPPY to speak on the subject. Dini's silence alone says volumes to me.
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Hey cerberus, id love to see that screener copy, and im sure you'll get bombarded with requests to see it, but, if you can squeeze in the time, id love to get a bootleg from ya, for a fee of course, but, hey if you will consider me, id be most appreciative
hedbangah@netscape.net
thanks in advance -
Why tell a friend "no comment."? Why not ask him to tell the truth and have Harry preserve his anonimity (bad spell - writing fast)??? He doesn't tell us who any of his other "spies" are...
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You are asking a question you already know the answer to.
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Hi Ninjaboy...
Okay maybe talking in riddles got you through ninja school, but what are you saying? Speakey English. What do you mean...spell it out for me...I have no idea what you mean by this, and please I don't need any 4th grade recess rules like, "If you don't know I'm not gonna tell you..."
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madness, madness i tell you, the corporate sleaze again worms its way into the creative process and forever discourages those brilliant artists who attempt valiantly to tell a compelling story, alas, alack, for shame....
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I shot you an email. Hopefully that will clear things up.
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In all fairness, I think we should wait until someone reviews the actual DVD when it hits shelves, and find out if cuts really WERE made before we boycott the WB. Think about it. It is entirely possible that, in this case, speculation has evolved into paranoia and anger. Someone probably just worried that the movie might be cut, spread the word, and in no time, everyone is grabbing pitch-forks and torches. It's also possible that these same rumors were started by people hoping to make extra money off their current copies of Return of the Joker to people like us. Let's find out what the ACTUAL word is before we do something too drastic.
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To whom it may concern,
As a big fan of Batman Beyond, I was very please to find out about the release of 'Batman Beyond:The Return of the Joker'. I could hardly wait for the release date.
But, after reading articles on my favorite web site, aint-in-cool-news.com (a link will
be provided below), I found to my dismay that you will be cutting the content, due to violence, of this much anticipated release. You may not be aware, but a great
deal of the fans of this show are over 18, heck, I'm 33 going on 34.
Well, as you can see from the link I provided, you have offended many fans. I for one will take the stand NOT TO PUCHASE, RENT, OR WATCH this release until an UNCUT
and UNEDITED version is release on DVD media, and I will be urging
everyone else, in every forum I can find to do the same. I hope you can rectify this. I have
grown up loving almost everything with the Warner Brothers name on it, and I want to continue to do so, but by censoring and butchering a movie that has
the potentional to be incredibly awesome, well, I wil have lost faith in you and all of your products, shows, movies, stores, and will do my best to boycott them all.
http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=7106
David Blum
scratch@home.com
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But you have to admit Dini's silence adds suscpicion. Everyone that has reviewed this movie RAVES about it -- he should be proud, right? "No comment."
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ROFL. Nah, kid, embrace your own responsibility. It'll empower you.
You're right, that one was a hoot.
Thanks again, and keep it coming. ;-) -
I will not stand for a cut version of this movie. My son and I (and several people at my company) have been waiting a long time for this movie.
So, and simple enough, if you have a screener or a very good copy of the BB:ROTJ screener, I would like to purchase it from you. Serious inquiries only, for I am serious person.
Discretion will be honored in kind.
Thanks in advance for helping out a fan. -
why is there so much political crap in the movie bizz, i mean, it boggles my mind that something as harmless as a movie can get this much done to it for"safety's sake", sheesh, but im a 21 year old college student who votes, what do i know about politics, or the movie bizz
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I don't even need the bootleg (although it would be nice). I hate the reviews without spoilers. Spoil away, dammit! Please someone email me if you know where the script is?? Thanks...
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OKAY Everyone...let's calm down!!!!!
harry's an idiot and he's just stirring up an issue that is NOT at all confirmed EITHER WAY!!! I am all for going ape shit but not until we know for certain. So let's step back and relax a bit, and see what WB brings to the table.
My vote is that we stop listening to Harry for awhile and see what happens. WB has said they are adding not subtracting and all Harry can give us is "No comment"
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Sorry I'm entering the conversation so late, but I too would like to get my hands on a bootleg copy of BATMAN BEYOND: ROTJ. If anyone can send me one I'll pay and will be willing to start spreading this tape around to as many people as possible so that all of those that would like to see the original version can. Si if anyone finds it in their heart to help out a poor soul with a measly bootleg, email me at:jmorales1@hotmail.com
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I will beg, crawl, give you head, I DON'T CARE WHAT... as long as I can get a good copy of the screener and not have to pay money for a sanitized DVD. Please email me at dddude01@hotmail.com THANKS
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YOU GODDAMN DIRTY APES! It really is cathartic, you should try it at home folks.
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to totally fucking blow it. To take their golden goose and ass fuck it royally, just as it's about to lay the golden egg.
Can't even call this re-editing a knee jerk reaction, it's a dick jerk reaction from a bunch of spineless wieners.
RobinP over and out !
Warners can kiss my ass ! -
Sarcasm is a childish affectation. Don't you get that I'm mocking you for it?
No, that's your beauty: you don't get any of this. Don't ever change, Boopsie. ;-) -
Coming from a guy who cant even bother to defend himself, mockery is for cowards who run away when they should stand up for themselves...Enjoy yourself as much as you want, but it doesnt change the fact that youre pretty idiotic - and those two-liners you keep spurting doesnt change that. Mock me some more Big boy, but use the INSIDE of your skull this time. Superficial people bore me to death.
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Here is the old contact address they had at the batman-superman website. E-mail JokerWB@aol.com. It works!
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Alright, i got a good amount of people who emailed me abotu the screener. I may be getting the screener in about 2 weeks from a good source (this is the same source who gave me a copy of Tim Burton's original Batman movie, the 1989 one, a month before release) I will not be distributing this screener until it is certain that the retail version is infact censored. If that is the case i will email you all for your addresses and you will have your shiny bootleg copy of the ORIGINAL UNCUT version of Batman Beyond: The Return of the Joker. BUt if the movie will be released uncut, and all this malarky was just a rumor, then please buy it on dvd or vhs. Thanx and laterz
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..they don't recut it. If they do I just might be in on this bootleg thing to.I'm going to go home now and watch the greatest 10 minutes ever made in a Batman movie or TV show in it's original uncut version.
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words can no longer do justice to how we feel. We can just sit and wait and see whether the movie has been defiled or not, but on track record, I have a feeling that bootlegs will be required. So if some great humanitarian soul decides to do all of us a favour and spread the wealth, *PLEASE* do not forget me. (shahzad_enver@hotmail.com)
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Now, I won't insult you or anything, let's get that straight. I just find it narrow minded of you to believe that the cartoon and comic book mediums are solely childish affairs. Given, this may have been their initial purpose (I have not done extensive research on it) but both mediums have expanded their subject matter and broadened their intended audiences thus becoming new ways of telling stories of all kinds. Take for example, as cliche as it is, Japanese anime: there are all types of animation for all tastes. Whether you're a child, a teenager, or an adult, the medium of animation should be able to offer something for everyone. The reason some people decide to do more adult themed subjects with animation lies in that fact that it is much easier to manipulate drawn pictures than it is to manipulate things in the real world. Animation opens numerous visual and fantastical possibilities for storytellers and film makers. Animation makes it possible for truly dynamic and impossible visuals and movements to be accomplished safely and cost effectively. Additionally, we notice the same thing with comic books. Titles like THE WATCHMEN, SANDMAN, PREACHER, and FROM HELL are not aimed at children by any means. These are all genuine attempts at using another medium as a storytelling device. I personally think it's commendable for writers like Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman or Garth Ennis to transcend those trappings people associate with the medium they are working in and redefine what a comic book has the potential to be. They have crafted masterful stories and breathed a new air of maturity and artistic expression into something dismissed as mere child's play. This is not to say that we should phase out all of the childish aspects of these two mediums, but rather we should embrace the expansion of the artistic endeavor. By your logic, where would poetry be? Initially it started as a means of telling myths and oral traditions in epic form. Poetry then evolved into more sophisticated means of story telling and conceptualizing, uses of metaphors and other writing devices. We notice another evolution as poetry embraces the idea of strict form (iambic pentameter, ryhme, etc.) then comes to reject form (modern poets, beat poetry, etc.). Why shouldn't other artistic mediums evolve as well, I ask you. I hope to have at least struck something in you. Hope to get a reply. Take care and apologies for any gramatical errors for I haven't slept in nearly two days.
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...You are so wrapped around the axle here, "defending myself" would be like getting between a kitten and a ball of yarn. You are _too_ totally tangled up. Please post again! Ta!
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I'm also willing to pay for an uncut copy of the movie if anyone is willing to send it, just 'cause I'm sure we won't be getting anything but a butchered version of the movie this December. Of course nomatter what happens I'll be buying whatever version they release just because I'm a weak minded fool. And I'll buy an uncut version if they release that later. For right now, if you're willing to sell an uncut copy of the movie, Email me. I've got money to spare.
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...why are the two of you bothering with this bullshit? If you really want to prove how smart or witty or intelligent you are than the other person, I recommend a face-to-face meeting and have it out with fists and flying feet. There's nothing like a good ol'fashion fight club-type confrontation to settle a supposedly "verbal" fight. All this back and forth between the two of you (and everybody else against Nuxx) is ridiculous when the board could be used by idiots like me to scream about how screwed up the world is. I mean, shit, I know both of you are trying to "out-wit" the other, but it ain't workin'.
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But Mr. Sartre was so kind to repeat what i was trying to tell you VPeople. Maybe you shoud try and read that. And of course the real author too, it shurely would broaden your horizon.... NUXX OUT.....
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I thought you and Kerle brought up some good points in your initial posts way back from whenever. I just thought I'd expand on both your ideas in hopes that these longer ramblings would make more sense to Village People when examined a bit more in depth in the context of each medium. Twas a pleasure. Take care and keep fighting the good fight for art and imagination. No limitations, no trappings: artistic expression should be just that.
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Quite the contrary, he made his points in a mature and intelligent manner entirely free of inflammatory flourishes, name-calling and other irrelevancies and inanity. There's nothing childish or pompous or deluded about his writing -- in other words, not a bit like you.
Sartre makes several good points which I will consider. In the meantime you might reread his post as well; it's not unimaginable that you might be capable of learning. ;-) -
I just called WB home video (1-877-277-9272) and i spoke to a representitive. I asked her about the movie and i asked that if it was true that the movie is being delayed to december 12 because they needed to re edit it. The lady (her name slips my mind, shit i should of wrote it down) told me that she thought that the date was still october 24, she then checked the date out and it was indeed moved to december 12, i then asked her that if it was to re edit the movie to make it more kid safe, she then told me to hold on so she can find out, when she came back she said that they were having troble copying it to vhs and dvd. So now there are 4 reasons for the delay, 1) so they can re edit it 2) so they can but more extras into the dvd, 3) so it can be moved to a holiday release and 4) they are having troble copying it into the dvd and vhs formats. Something fishy is going on.
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Believe it!!!
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-- Now we have to kill him.
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OK -- Just tried to get a screener under a new name and a new voice from JoshyPoshy, and NOW:
1. Screeners will be available around the first week of November. This is also when you'll see a new press release. NOTE: These are the NEW cut of the movie. Interesting...
2. He now says that he doesn't know, "They may add something for the DVD or SNIP SOMETHING OUT HERE AND THERE...I dunno, I mean we do that for our theatrical releases."
So now I am back to being pissed. They ARE INDEED LYING AND CHANGING THEIR STORY EVERY FEW HOURS.
So I have the "Josh" man's phone number. Should we all start calling and complaining. He's merely a publicity slave, but hey, we've got to start somewhere.
Whaddya think? Or do we hold off and see what else we can find?
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Anyone who can take an entire artistic medium and label it childish just can't be taken seriously.
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hi
how can we contact WB on the issue of Batman Beyond DVD?
I sure hope they put two versions on the thing.
TT -
I work for a big company, and I know first hand that an ink-and-paper letter sent through snail mail will get a quicker reaction from executive types than either a phone call or an e-mail. I maintain that a letter writing campaign and/or a petition is the best way for us to protest. Threaten a boycott if you will, just make sure that they know the reason. I just mailed off a letter which I will post on Joker's Realm for anyone who wants to read it. The address I mailed it to (thanks to Pietro Kozlowski) is WB Network,
c/o Warner Brothers Animation,
4000 Warner Blvd - Bldg 178,
Burbank, CA 91522. Also, we are working on developing a petition. If you would like to help get a petition online please e-mail me: cousinjean@cybergeek.com
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Oct 04, 2000 4:59:24 PM CDT
StoneHelper.....this is not good....maybe we should wait
by darkprincevegita
I think we should wait till we find out exactly if the dvd is the cut version. as of now though when i get my grubby hands on the uncut screener i will start making copies for everyone who wants them, ill keep them till the word about the edits are true.
Stonehelper if you can email me so we can talk about something it would be greatly appreciated or IM me on AIM, MarVsCap2Killer -
Perhaps I'm being an optimist, but I really don't think that they're hacking the movie to pieces, they're probably just cashing in on releasing it for the holidays. Personally, I think some people just read the report yesterday and popped off a bunch of e-mails to stir the pot. . .
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Excuse me while I roll in pain and anguish at the tagline of ROTJ.
The Joke's on You...
Jade
oh cruel jest...
thy wicked arrow stings. -
After reading Jadeh's post, it occurred to me that this whole thing could just be a big joke and publicity stunt on the part of the WB. Reminds me of when South Park promised to reveal Cartman's father on April Fool's Day and ran that Terrence and Phillip ep instead. That would be apropos to the Joker theme. Oh well, even if the joke is on us, I don't regret sending my letter, and until I hear otherwise will continue with the petition effort. Serves them right for screwing with our heads anyway.
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You guys that mentioned this earlier may be right. Who knows... maybe this is all an elaborate hoax just to get the attention of rabid fanboys. Maybe the movie will be released on it's original release date, uncut and all, and the lot of us will be caught off-guard and stumped beyond belief! But then again, maybe it really IS gettin' delayed, and there are probably more than one factors that are causing this... either way, I'm just gradually gettin' more and more uninterested in this whole development. ...
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Not too long ago I started telling my friends about how cool the Batman Beyond LIve Action project was going to be... just so long as the studio execs didn't foul it up. Now, with a hyper-sensitive studio looking to re-open the Bat-Franchise up for big bucks, we have the core work (the series) being subject to potential censorship.
I am greatly disappointed, the 24th is my birthday and my plans invovled taking the day off and watching BB:ROTJ... but I'm not as shocked as I once was.
No matter how many cool properties and products WB has, no matter how many geniuses work for them its still just that: work for hire, products and properties to all those businessmen.
Out in comicdom we've seen award cailiber stories turned to pulp over at DC, the greats of the medium barred from working on the most classic characters... and you know what- I've just about lost hope that art and commerece can ever co-exist.
While we still can though- fight back... use your dollars, evangelize all over the place, boycott, whatever you can do until you see the animation medium treated with a level of respect similar to what is seen in Japan.
In other news... future Bat-Director Aronofsky is feeling Washington heat indirectly with the advertising for Requiem for A Dream. Exhibitors are forcing a "no one under 17" warning for this unrated film.
What is it with the Bat-Creators and censorship these days?
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Oct 04, 2000 6:49:46 PM CDT
Here's my letter so far......thanks harry for the addresses!!
by jedifunk
Dear Warner Bros,
I have become aware that the release of Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, is being delayed while undergoing a re-edit to reduce the violent content. I understand that your initial target audience was intended to be of the Pokemon variety, which is why it is broadcast during the WBKids grouping.
But despite any of your ratings reports, your viewership is largely over 17. This has been true since the original Batman Animated series first aired. I myself am a 34 years old male, and have enjoyed both series immensely. The writing and presentation is far superior to any of the live action releases, and requires a mature mind to enjoy it completely. The show would do far better if presented in prime time, and targeted more for its true audience.
Understanding the poorly backed outcry of recent political topics, I can see the reason WB would want to avoid having this movie used as an example. WB should also be smart enough to fully utilize the features of the DVD format to exploit the entire Batman marketplace.
There are two options, one would only require a single release, and the second would require two.
1. Put the -
Dammit Dammit, sons of bitches. I'm so pissed of I was so looking forward to a more mature American animated film, a batman film at that. The thing is there are soooooo many older people that want to see this movie its just not fucking fair. And now Requiem for a Dream is getting an NC-17 rating and I wont be able to see it because I'm 16. Fucking bastards way to ruin America and piss off everyone. EMINEM ROCKS MUTHER FUCKERS, SO DOES BLOOD AND KILLING AND I WANT TO HURT PEOPLE, LET ME KILL THE BUNNY MOMMY LET ME JUST TWIST AND TWIST AND TWIST TILL ITS WITTLE HEAD POPS OWF! sorry folks, but seriously, it's not right to tell more mature viewers what we can and cannot watch. I think entertainment is a lot more imporatant than the right to bear arms which isn't even a right at all.
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Oct 04, 2000 7:16:58 PM CDT
I'm sorry, but some clerk at the distribution office is NOT OFFI
by superninja
Official news comes from the PR department in the form of a press release. You guys can start stockpiling weapons all you want, but until there is official word of a menace, I'm not going to jump the gun and act on it.
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This is the greatest thing ever! Lets do it guys!
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Okay, time to rant. I hope this isn't what it seems, but knowing the WB, it probabaly is and more. Well, let me just say:
Rat bastards from hell! Sons of bitches! Penny pinchin', PC loving, cheap rat bastards from hell! Damn you, WB! We have every right to see the TRUE version; not some watered down, babyfied, piece of shit version that some overprotective parents want to see! Dini and Co have worked too damn hard for too damn long to get this shit dumped on them like this! >ahem< I'm done now. -
How sad that now I have to buy a bootleg. How sad that a fan has to go to such lengths to get something he/she wants. How sad that Warner Bros. obviously wants us all to buy bootlegs...tsk. With that in mind Email me if you have a copy!UraBob@ihateclowns.com
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Thanks for the help in our effort, Harry. I can't wait for the poll. Villiage People is a fag, stop talking like you consider yourself a fucking james bond villian. Put the REAL ROTJ on Scour Exchange, and Return Of The Joker was a lame idea for the title, but Joker Strikes Back! is better.
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In the immortal words of Buffy kingpin Joss Whedon, referring to the delayed American broadcast of the Buffy Season 3 Finale....
"BOOTLEG THE SUCKER!"
If anyone can get a hold of the uncut screener (I'll be trying my contacts) start distributing... whatever means necessary!
or possible...
email me!
And yes, also write the WB to whine and complain, but I say that two wrongs make a right in this case... I was pumped and ready to buy this DVD on release day, but now I hope to not only get a copy of the original, but to help others.
STOP CENSORSHIP NOW!
Also, STOP MARKETING VIOLENCE TO KIDS!
Peace out y'all! -
To whom it may concern:
I have been meaning to express my distaste for Warner Brothers' lack of concern for the consumer for quite some time now, but I feel in light of recent events, specifically those concerning the release of the animated feature, "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker", the time to act is now.
According to various news sources, including Internet movie news websites, local and national video distributors or store owners, fellow consumers, and a bit of my own "snooping", it has come to our collective attention, that the new Batman Beyond film has been delayed in order to alter its content to suit a younger demographic. Batman fans, DVD collectors, animation fans, and most importantly the average consumers is deeply offended by this decision. It shows not only a lack of faith in a quality product and an insult to the creative team on your part, but more importantly a lack of trust toward those who should be most important: the consumer.
If you continue to offend the consumer in this manner, I assure you that sales will decline, starting with me and those who have signed below.
I can also assure you that future Warner Brothers releases will suffer the same scruntinity. "The Goonies" for instance is a film that is so passionately loved by its fans that if a complete DVD treatment, including uncut scenes, commentary, etc. was not issued it would simply be a crime.
Fans of "Scooby Doo" are dissappointed to see you've only released four(?!) episodes on DVD. Why not all of the episodes? "Scooby Doo" is one of Warner Brothers most lucrative franchises? Why cheat the consumer?
We understand that violence in the media and its affect on youth is an important debate. However, we cannot respect your decision to alter or edit the content of "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker." Therefore, we suggest two versions: one for children, and one for the rest of us, parents, fans, collectors, and those of us who are still children within and who could never believe that Batman would let us down.
And then we all sign it! Good? Bad? Whaddya think!? -
Oct 04, 2000 8:05:30 PM CDT
Omigod! Harry has now been animated into FREAKS! I thought the
by lenny nero
Now I have nightmares for another month. Thanks a lot, Harry.
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First right when Heavy Metal music was at its peak, Al and Tipper ride in and make it so you couldn't buy a decent, uncensored CD at Wal*mart and all the cool music got squeezed into a 2-hour program at midnight on Saturdays. Now that animation is coming of age in America (after how many years of crap???), and he comes in and fucks us again! Now the closest thing to Anime we're going to see stateside in the next TWELVE YEARS is going to be the next warm and cuddly Disney flick. And despite the fact that Gore has a PROVEN TRACK RECORD of RESORTING TO CENSORSHIP Every Single Time it'll raise his poll numbers, he's still ahead in this election. Can you imagine what will happen to Hollywood if he's actually elected? Vote Bush!
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I've said this before...democrats as well as republicans are lined up together ON THIS VERY SAME ISSUE. Turning it into a "vote for my guy" campaign is just silly. I'll be glad when I vote, the race ends, and we can wait four more years until this nonsense resurfaces...
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Since the Spiderman Incident, actually.
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There's a couple of spelling and grammar mistakes you may want to clean up in there before you mail it. Also, take out the Goonies and Scooby stuff.. Don't stray too far from your goal. Here's a (in my opinion) better version:
To whom it may concern: I have been meaning to express my distaste for Warner Brothers' lack of concern for the consumer for quite some time now, but I feel in light of recent events, specifically those concerning the release of the animated feature, "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker", the time to act is now. It has come to my attention that, according to various news sources including Internet movie news websites, local and national video distributors, store owners, and fellow consumers, the new Batman Beyond film has been delayed in order to alter its content to suit a younger demographic. Batman fans, DVD collectors, animation fans, and, most importantly, the average consumers are deeply offended by this decision. It shows not only a lack of faith in a quality product and an insult to the creative team on your part, but, more importantly, a lack of trust toward those who should be most important: the consumer. If you continue to offend the consumer in this manner, I assure you that sales will decline, starting with me and those who have signed below. I can also assure you that future Warner Brothers releases will suffer the same scrutiny. We understand that violence in the media and its effect on youth is an important issue; however, we cannot respect your decision to alter or edit the content of "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker." Therefore we suggest two versions: one for children, and one for the rest of us: parents, fans, collectors, and those of us who are still children within and who could never believe that Batman would let us down. -
Oct 04, 2000 8:58:56 PM CDT
Hundreds of letters from fanboys around the world, all addressed
by miracleman
Argh, mateys! Let's all just calm down now. Take DEEEEEEEP breaths... breath... and release...(repeat until maddening pulse subsides). I have complete faith that everything will turn out just fine. Believe me, I am hardly concerned at all that things will truly take a turn for the worse. In the immortal words of Alfred E. Neuman, "What, Me Worry?"
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I am trying to be optimistic here. If they are pushing it back for a holiday release, fine. But did they forget x-mas was coming months ago when they set this date? If the dvd is getting packed with more extras, ok. But would they push it back 2 months just to give us a little bit more bag for our buck? Do executives care that much? If they are having trouble transferring it, do they have brand new equipment in there? Or do they have monkeys working at WB(which is likely). If people die or something in it, why didnt they cut it out of Batman:MOTP? Doesn't make sense. I will hope for the best and hold off on trying to get a bootleg copy, but if anybody has one willing to sell a copy, please email me. draven03@aol.com
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Why the Hell do these fucking executives have to ruin a perfectly good movie just so they can market it to a bunch of overly sensitive 6 year olds? Bunch of savages in this town...
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ever since I clocked in at work today (14:30 cst). The first thing I do is go to Harry's site when I get to work and what do I find today (and yesterday)but some of the worst news on here to date. This is ridiculous! It really is. At this moment, I CANNOT stand the WB! Is their goal to damn all animation that comes from their house to Hell (with the exception of the FINE entertainment known as Pokemon which they seem to market NON-STOP). Is that their goal? Unless the uncut movie is released, I won't be purchasing this. It's a shame, too, because I've been looking forward to it for awhile. Oh, well.
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If they are going to re-edit (ie cut things), what they should do is like what was done with Spawn (the anamiated version shown on HBO). Spawn was released in two versions, a PG and an uncut/unrated version. To compare differences, the PG version had approx. 90 min. cut as compared to the uncut/unrated version. If they are going to re-edit Batman Beyond I hope they release an uncut/unrated version for us adult fans.
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wanted: bootleg copy of BB: Return of the Joker.
you provide the dub, I provide $$$, everyone goes home a winner - well, except WB who gets screwed. Oh well.
If anyone is considering doing bootlegs, and God bless you for that, please e-mail me at redass@iwon.com.
Thanks -
I would also like a copy, bootleg or non, of the unedited Batman Beyond movie. Anyone who's got the goods, e mail me at spam1981@aol.com. I'll be waiting. By the way, man goes in the cage. Cage goes in the salsa. Shark's in the salsa. Our shark.
DAMN YOU WB SUITS!!!
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Pretty funny that the word I spell wrong is that one. Thanks.
Oh and by the way, grammar is dead, it's called style baby, style. There are no grammar mistakes in my book...read it aloud, that's what they'll do.
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If this hadn't been an election year, we wouldn't be having this problem. Violent entertainment would have been just another issue that no one paid any real attention to and business would have continued like normal. But, unfortunately, this is an election year and the politicians need something to buy votes with. So the corporate executives get a little pressure and we get screwed. But there
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By the way, Harry, thanks for the "Plan of Action." We couldn't have figured out what to do with out you.
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Oct 04, 2000 10:10:42 PM CDT
Let's stop Screwing Around and get Something Done About This!!!!
by vicious
First of All if you don't care about Petitioning for an uncut version of BB RotJ, don't bother reading this. Secondly I have a writer friend of Mine, possibly putting a Petition Letter together now. We must act soon before these Mucky-Mucks totally rape this Project. I don't know if I'm the ghuy to Orchestrate this, but i DO feel very strongly about this. Email me at ViciousSaga@Yahoo.com and as soon as i know something more i'll inform you. BTW, any Mentally-Impotent-Naysaying-Morons such as VillagePeople can leave their comments and mail to themselves. Or i could probably have you removed from the Board....Hmmm, now that's an idea....
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I located the email addresses for the Director's of Sales mentioned in Harry's post. PLEASE DO NOT SPAM or "GO OFF" on these people. That can only have a negative effect. Intelligent, mature complaints and criticisms may have the effect we are looking for. My email letter follows their addresses.
Fight the power! Fight censorship!
Director of Sales, Eastern region, Suzette Cabildo, scabildo@wb.com
Director of Sales, Western region, Jessica Siff
jsiff@wb.com
My letter:
Ms Siff and Ms Calbido,
I'm addressing this issue to you both as Directors of Sales of WB for your regions. If this email is not pertinent to you, I sincerely apologize for wasting your time, but ask that you forward this email to the individual at WB whose attention this should be brought to.
I've read that the Batman Beyond:Return of the Joker home video release has been delayed from October 24th to mid December. Different responses have been given by WB employees as to the reason for this delay.
Rumors circulating have said that the delay is due to a re-edit of the video in order to sanitize it an make it more "kid-friendly." If this is true I'd like to say that I then have absolutely no intention of buying, renting, or supporting this release in any way.
The buzz about this video has been overwhelmingly positive and many fans, including myself, have been anxiously awaiting it's release. I understand violence in the media has been in the news recently. However, if WB has decided to cave to congressional pressure and pander to the lowest common denominator on this issue, I see it as a cowardly and bureacratic decision.
9 year olds do not have jobs. The bulk of merchandising and financial success that the animated Batman series have had has been due to 20, 30 and 40-something year old fans, like me, who enjoy intelligent, mature animation. According to all reports the violence in ROTJ, that is now being found "objectionable" by executives, is meaningful and integral to story.
Those who attempt to lay the blame for anti social behavior at the doorstep of the movie, television and music industry are, quite simply, making excuses for poor parenting and abnegating any sense of personal responsibility.
I sincerely suggest that you go to Harry Knowles internet news site, Aint-it-Cool-News, to see the very strong, almost visceral, reaction that animation and Batman fans are having to this latest decision by the WB.
If WB chooses not to release the original, un-edited version of this video, I cannot in good conscience support the WB in the future with my hard earned dollars. You will have lost a customer.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Rob Pugh -
Make it a hidden feature on DVD, which all us net-savvy folk will easily be able to figure out how to access, while the default version most all kids would see would be the edited version?
Two different releases in two different packages is a lot of trouble and confusing.
Hidden Easter eggs are commonplace on many of your finer DVDs.
Nuff said! -
Oct 04, 2000 10:59:11 PM CDT
Let's get some facts straight first -- you don't want this backf
by superninja
Given the description of the content in BM: ROTJ, I think we can all agree it should NOT be rated G. However, an executive at WB GREENLIT a PG-13 film and then slapped a G rating on it. If they were to release this film as is, they would give fuel to Washington's fire. What should be done in a responsible manner to remain faithful to the vision of the artists (something WB is notorious for NOT doing) is either two versions in release, or a single version with Parental Blocks so they can monitor the content if they feel it is too violent. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR, PEOPLE. If the WB releases it as is, they could get burned so bad that they will draw the line and more than just ROTJ will be censored. It's just something to keep in mind. You don't want them to tie Dini's hands permanently. We need to encourage them in typical Hollywood ass-kissing fashion (executives love that) to be RESPONSIBLE and release alternate versions so they can keep everyone happy. Play up on the economics of it. Threatening will do no good unless every last one of us really doesn't buy, rent or order this film and we all know that isn't happening.
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If they do this editing,etc to the animated movie,what type of restrictions would the live-action BATMAN beyond face. (Just look at the tone of Batman Forever and Batman & Robin next to Batman and Batman Returns to see wat I mean.)
Also,when is an american studio,major or minor,or video label going to have the "balls" to release good animation without worring about offending a handful of people who don't have the smarts to control what their kids watch,see,hear and want the studios do it for them! -
...that when people put these things in movies, they are inspired from the worst kind of influence on children in the world...THE NEWS. And politicians are always looking in the wrong places and for all the wrong reasons. Clean up the streets, not the airwaves. TV shows only reflect our society, not the other way around. SO DON'T FRIGGIN' RE-EDIT THE MOVIE!
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The email addy you provided is for a member of the BB creative staff, not someone with WB.
He responded to my email and sympathized with my complaint, but said he had no influence on WB's decisions.
To everyone else, pls don't inundate this individual with emails. -
I just got done typing out my letter. I'm sending copies to all of the addresses Harry gave. I know I said that I would wait until some confirmation before I did anything, but this can only help. I'm not gonna bother posting what I wrote, because I don't want to tempt people into being lazy and copying my letter and putting their name on it. If the execs at WB saw a few dozen copies of the EXACT letter, they would probably dismiss it, seeing it as a sign that people don't care enough to write to them themselves. Well. . . okay, it's a long-shot, but I'm just trying to get everyone who writes the ambition of speaking from their hearts, and truthfully telling them what we think of this. Be cival and mature in your letters. Don't lash-out with some in-coherant drivel and swearing. Give them something they'll WANT to read!
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I figured I'd throw my letter up here just in case some of you are going to be printing up the Talkbacks and sending them with your letters....
To Whom it May Concern:
I just heard a few days ago that you are delaying the release of BATMAN BEYOND: RETURN OF THE JOKER to make it more kid friendly and edit out the violence. I respect your position and see why you would want to do something like that, and I can see many parents wanting to buy that version for their kids. At the same time though, I speak for a lot of adult Batman fans when I say I WILL NOT buy a copy of the movie that is cut down like that. I want to see the movie that Curt Geda and Paul Dini wanted to make, and had made before the decision was made to make these cuts.
After talking with hundreds of fans on the Internet and many in person about this, I know I -
If anybody out there has a copy of the original screener, I'd be interested in a dub. If you want to sell me the original, I could make you an offer. Click on my user_id to get the address. I agree with everyone else, this news is unfortunate and unfair. To the guy who thinks cartoons are for kids, you're a fucking jackass. Give us some reasons for your shortsighted views.
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Yep, that's right; I got one, and it's for sale. The price is...one million dollars! OK, OK...make that one hundred ($100) U.S. dollars. Normally, I would be happy to make a copy of this, but with what's sure to be an overwhelming response, I don't feel like making and mailing a thousand copies of this tape. (and I don't have the capabilities, anyway!) But I'm not going to give this tape away, either. (especially to someone who's probably going to sell a bunch of copies themselves) And I don't want to attract too much attention from the FBI or Warner Home Video, so I'm only going to do this one sale. So, how to prove this is for real? Well, I know what happens in the film, and I'll tell you if that'll help. (Inside info: Angie Harmon takes over as the adult voice of Barbara Gordon, replacing Stockard Channing from the series.) I can also send a pic of the tape and the cover box. (it's the real deal: Joker/Batman illustrated cover and everything!) For those who don't know, a screener has company titles that scroll onscreen every few minutes; these are several small, white words that appear briefly at the bottom of the screen, partially blocking it momentarily. (I've seen much worse on other screeners) It's a minor nuisance, but tolerable. If interested, email me at auntywb@yahoo.com. Oh, and in case you're wondering, it's not rated and the running time is 76 minutes. (not 74 as someone else had posted) Oh yeah, and it kicks fucking ass!
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Ok, of all the letters that have been posted, I think Rob's says our plight the best. I've taken the liberty of adding my own header above his original letter and have sent emails and letters to all the adresses provided. So, email me at bigdaddyschwinn@aol.com and I'll be happy to forward you the letter and all you have to do is add your own header, put a stamp on it, and send it out. Remember, if all we do do is bitch about this, nothing is going to happen. We need to send out polite, well written letters that quickly get to our point(s).
PS- I wants a screener too. hehehe -
If the WB is genuine about adding extra features to their DVD, all those people who shelled-out all their milk money for a cruddy bootleg will be sorry. Besides, I'd be more than happy to support the WB if they did such a noble thing. Then again, if all else fails, and it becomes nearly impossible for me to buy an official, un-cut version, then I'll find another way. In the meantime, just be aware of cyber-sharks ready and willing to take advantage of you and your money by over-pricing a cheap copy that may, or may not get to you at all. There's no guarantee that you won't be taken advantage of.
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This is fear. Nothing altruistic or compassionate. Nothing about children. Its about people in Hollywood being afraid that sooner or later it will hit their pocketbooks. Well, it stinks. It stinks that I am not even being given a choice in which version I will see. You want to dumb it down for kiddies? Kiddies who see worse in their homes and on TV everyday? Kids who are blindfolded and told to ignore violence. How about dealing with violence. How about acknowledging violence and showing its consequences. How about not hiding, not putting a bandaid on a mortal wound, how about giving me a choice in what I see and hear. I had my money ready and now I don't think I am going to spend it on Batman Beyond.
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Oct 05, 2000 2:20:35 AM CDT
Ya Want Publicity? How 'Bout If Someone Starts-Up A Website?
by cowblaster
www.no-organic-webshooters.com has been mentioned in many articles and magazines. Hell, they even got a radio spot once! So, why doesn't someone start a website devoted to this? Call it, www.save-batman-beyond.com or something. It's sure to turn a few heads!
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Al Gore sucks. It is all his fault that the executives at the WB are idiots. It is also his fault that the American people are too stupid to vote a third party candidate into office. It is his fault that he has to tell people what they want to hear to get elected and that what they want to hear is "profamily" buzzword nonsense. Stupid Al Gore. I want to vote for Bush, that is why I ignore the fact that he has the same stance on this issue as Gore. Gore is running with Leiberman, and I'm sure the Vice President must have a lot of power, right? I don't really know. I don't understand how the government works very well, but Bush's dad was the President, so Bush will be a good President too. Voting for a good party, like the Libertarian party, is just throwing my vote away! PS...Al Gore Sucks!
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A suit sitting in front of his/her lap top reading all of these posts with all the intent of throwing a monkey wrench in thier nerrow minded plans. Thinking..god I hate this site..Ha Ha
I wish we had this when John K got the royal screwing from nickelodion and got ren and stimpy taken away from him
Oh and if a suit is reading this, think about the last time you monkeyed with comics and us geeks..Three words " Batman and robin" -
just read some stuff at IGN, go read it and take it as you will...
http://dvd.ign.com/previews/745.html
we can only hope they're right... -
Over the last few hours, I've been frequenting a few message boards that I normally do, and leaving variants on the message below. I'd suggest that some of you do the same - help to try to make as many people aware of this as possible, and providing contact adresses...as well as sending mail yourselves. Anyway, here's the message:I know this isn't something that will interest all of you, but any example of censorship in film releases that is backed by fear of political reaction rather than artistic concerns or responsibility to the audience is something that we should all be aware of.
The upcoming release of Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker has been postponed, and the buzz is that Warner Brothers is cutting down some of the more violent segments, in order to avoid the politics currently going on with the entertainment industry and marketing violence to kids.
The have already been several early reviews or previews of the movie, and they've all - without exception - said is was amazing - the best Batman movie ever. Paul Dini wrote the script with mature audiences in mind. The Joker is as evil, if not moreso, than the comic version ever was, and the characters feel real, and go through some real trauma. This affects the decisions they make through the course of the movie. If this were changed, the trauma edited, the film as a whole would be lessened, and would feel justifiably watered-down.
We need to let Warner Brothers know that there is a mature audience that appreciates and purchases animated movies. If you think that these movements never produce results, just look at nausicaa.net and the response to the Princess Mononoke DVD.
However, we need to do more. With Princess Mononoke, the studio that was releasing the film already knew they were only dealing with a niche market - no matter how good the film was. For a studio produced American film, a petition alone will not be enough. Yes, it would help, and should be done. More than that, though, we need to contact the people at Warner responsible for this, and let them know that they've made a mistake. That there is an audience that will buy the film.
Here are a few addresses you can contact, if you decide to back this issue:
Warner Brothers HOME VIDEO,
c/o Warner Brothers Animation,
4000 Warner Blvd - Bldg 178,
Burbank, CA 91522
Director of Sales, Eastern Region
Suzzette Cabildo
1325 Ave. of the Americas
New York, NY 10019
scabildo@wb.com
Director of Sales, Western Region
Jessica Siff
505 n. Brand Blvd
Glendale CA 91203
jsiff@wb.com
If you send mail, please be civil, and perhaps suggest a compromise - that they produce two version - the VHS in "Kid Friendly" form, and the DVD with either the original, or with both version and a parental lockout. But please let them know that there is an audience, and that - as long as they don't market the more mature version as a kid's cartoon - there is no real political pressure on them. -
Who gives a rats ass if they release this film cut or uncut!
if you've seen it once what the hell are you complaining about!
I've gotta go cus I think I'm
going to get sick! -
If you preordered this DVD, please write to the stores! Press Amazon. Press DVD Express. Let them hear that we want an uncut DVD! This should not stop you from writing directly to WB, of course, but the stores might have other lines towards the decision makers.
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Anybody else notice this site sometimes gets way behind on its scoops? The Internet Movie Database reported yesterday that Mariah Carey is going to play Wonder Woman in the new movie. I thought we cared about stuff like this here.
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Oct 05, 2000 8:23:50 AM CDT
TallScott - Batman and Robin failed because of Schumacher; not t
by studio suit
Once again I must correct a fanboy about Batman and Robin. It failed because of Schumacher, not because of the studio. The studio entrusted the film on him based on the box-office profit of Batman Forever. The studio hoped that he could strike oil again. However, he did not, and that is why he will not direct another Bat film. The studios are going to hire on someone who they think can bring in the cash and make the film a commercial hit. This is the reason that WB is taking its time on any new live action Bat flicks, because they do not want another goofy director and his crew screwing up their chances of making a lot of revenue. So, stop blaming the studios for the mistakes of Batman and Robin, which was clearly the director's fault. That movie could have been a financial hit, if it was handled by someone else.
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Some of you people need to calm down and get some OFFICIAL facts before you fly off and start embarassing yourselves! WB reps we've spoken to claim that the DVD will NOT be edited and was delayed for a Christmas release and more time and money for marketing and perhaps other DVD treats. Could they be covering up? Perhaps, but I'll take their word for it over the track record of some of the "spies" on here. If you want something closer to "the truth" (at least as it stands today), visit http://www.dvdsewer.com And I can just see it now... the DVD will come out in December and will be unedited and "geeks" on here will scream cries of "victory" all the while oblivious to the fact that NONE of this edited DVD stuff is substantiated. Sheesh.
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I will passing along your name and e-mail address to both Warner Brothers and the FBI. What you are doing is illegal. Also, to all those talking about buying or selling bootlegs, The studio will have your e-mail addresses as well. Sorry, but I can not allow such actions to take place.
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...and I bet you do that like everyone else.Hypocrite.
Go to any comic book convention and you'll see tables and tables of Gatchaman,Yamato,Anime,Old Spiderman Cartoons, and so forth being sold from one collector to another.This thing will be no different.If it's altered people will find a way to get a copy, no matter what WB does. -
Since it's a slow work day and I've nothing better to do, and since I'm all antsy about this matter, I went ahead and started putting together a web site for a petition. The petition isn't written yet, but when it is the address for it will be [http://randomthought.addr.com/rtj.html]. Sorry, I can't afford to register a domain name for it. If anyone wants to pitch in to get a domain name, I sure won't object ...
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Hey, why don't you give the WB my fucking address while you are at it. I don't give a flying fuck what you do, the fact of the matter is that if the movie will be censored,then I will make copys of the screener for everyone to see. Plain and simple. I can give a rats ass about what the WB will do. This same shit happened with DragonBall Z, I started distributing my fansubs and FUNimation got pissed at me and said they would sue me if I didn't stop, and you know what, I didn't stop and look what happened, NOW after 4 years of beggin and complaining to them, we get subbed DBZ. So StudioSuit do what you need to do, and I will do what I need to do
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is easy.
I'm betting one of you geeks either has access or can get access to a screener tape of ROTJ, and then....
Anybody remember that Star Wars Episode 1 trailer or GD Pt. 2?
My favorite video compression format is divX ;-), what's yours?
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All,
Let's be reasonable about this. I have no problem with WB making a children's cut to the Batman Beyond feature. On video tape they should release that version.
HOWEVER, on DVD they can release BOTH on one DVD. There is a built in parental control feature which can direct which version (edited or unedited) is shown. Families with kids only need to use that feature to protect their children.
If we as a group push for this option I am sure we can get it through.
Thanks
Michael -
I think that was the last time a supposed kid's film was allowed to have graphic violence and sexual innuendo. It even stopped McDonald's ever doing another Happy Meal tie-in with a PG-13 film. Now we can't have any cool stuff in superhero films. What's the world coming to?
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Well, powershit, your warning was enough to frighten me, and I'm no longer selling the screener...NOT!
Go ahead, tell the FBI, the WB and your mommy for all I care! Like you, powershit, I have not given any relevant info about myself to AICN or Yahoo. Therefore, I will continue to sell the screener to the highest bidder. (currently at $150) And for those who doubt my sincerity, I can send a QT video of a scene from the video to prove it. (isn't technology wonderful?) -
It seems to me that WB's been treating their Direct-To-Video toons like Made-For-TV toons for a while now. I don't know about the first Batman Beyond movie, (I stopped watching Kids WB when it became The Pokemon Network), but both "Batman Sub-Zero" and "World's Finest" showed up on Kids WB mere weeks after the video release dates, and "Wakko's Wish" was on Cartoon Network this spring. The turnaround is so fast that I don't think WB makes a distinction between DTV and broadcast. The censorship being reported here pisses me off as much as anyone, but it doesn't surprise me.
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Why the hell should we all go spend our hard earned $ on a warterd down version of the real thing. I can deffintly appreicate why the WB would want to give the kids a diffrent version(it is a "kids" show after all)but there is no reason to fuck us fans too! I say fuck em, all the true fans boycott the damn thing & after a few weeks(after all the mommies buy the movie for thier kids)the sales of the video will drasticly decline. Without our support the movie will be considerd a flop & the suits at theWB will know that they fucked up & release the unedited version. Or they wont care or even think about it, we will all remain fucked & will be forced to move to commerical terrorism.
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Trust me, I wouldn't even waste my time reporting something as miniscule as that. See, we non-fanboys can have fun too.
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I've cancelled my order from Amazon. I would like to buy a copy of the screener. Please contact me at jdsundstrom@hotmail.com. Thanks, J.D.
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Oct 05, 2000 12:03:46 PM CDT
Aunt WB is........what should I call it.............
by darkprincevegita
ohh i know, a silly loser, not a true fan and a plain old ASSHOLE
'nuff said
anyonw who wants the screener from me for just the charge of shipping (3$) just email me and ill give you details -
that if they don't release the uncensored version of this, I'll gladly pay someone for a bootleg. Censorship my ass! WB is only hurting themselves, here.
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that is the fucking problem with america. kids shows that have violence are forced to tone down violence and make it so its no longer intense or frightening, right? hence, making violence look ok, making it look tame and acceptable. children should see violence for what it is, see that its terrible and see what effects it has. this movie sounds like it displays that very well. children need to be exposed to the reality of violence or no violence at all. to show tame violence sends a more dangerous message than anything else. this isn't even some mad theory i came up with, so idea for how things should be done, it is how things ARE done in japan, and statistics show that violence is not the kind of problem for their country as it is for ours. american cartoons make violence swell and ok. violence should never be swell and ok! that is so fucking aburd i can't even fathom. christ, i have to stop. i hope you all understand what im driving at, and i wish some government and studio fucks would understand as well.
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God I cant belive im responding to you but..Batman and robin was not just the Directors fault..Who green lit the script? Who let that piece of garbage be released? Who did not step in and say hey maby we have a ten ton piece of steaming doo-doo on our hands..and ill give you ten guesses...Im sure everyone in a suit and tie in WB saw that movie before it was released and thought everything was hunky-dory
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Frankly, coming from the company that dropped the ball with the Iron Giant I shouldn't be surprised. Contrary to popular beleif us parent's are quite capable of making our own decisions on what's appropriate for our kids. Its not the government's job to tell us what we can and cannot watch. However censoring Hollywood is easier then actually working to cure what's wrong in the country. PS: I hope it comes out unedited on VHS cuz I have yet to get a DVD player, then again I'll suddenly have yet another good reason to get one.
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The big yellow one is the son.
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Harry if you start a petition we can get tons and tons of eople to sign it, people from the DC comics message boards and from Batman message boards all over the place including this site and many others. Start a petition now!
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Aren't the studio types pulling this crap sick of being percived as SH*THEADED F^%KING MORONS!!! (I know I should be more polite they're just doing thier jobs, and calling people names isn't going to get us and unedited batman movie). As everyone else is saying, just release 2 versions. I'ts been done with sucsess with a good deal of Japanese Animation (Gundam Wing and Dragon Ball Z both have unedited and edited versions when sold on video). If the execs aren't aware of the adult audience for Batman Beyond (or just anything involving Batman or his mythos) then its their fault that our money, which we are willing to give them for... (and I've heard 'round some parts they'se likes "the money") won't come into their pockets. Batman Beyond: unedited - I buy it on DVD and recomend it to all my friends telling them how good it is (it's gotten so much good preview hype that I just know I'll at least enjoy it a good deal) and how it's amazing what Paul Dini and Bruce Timm have done with and intresting story and premise and how the WB let it be Dark and Edgy AS THE ORIGNAL ARTISTS BEHIND IT INTENDED. Batman Beyond: edited - I don't buy it on dvd, I find a bootleg copy of the unedited version (hopefully) and give the bootlegger my money instead of Warner Bros.
Warner Bros., I'd just rather give you my money. Let us adults enjoy this one too, please. -
The web site, Save the Joker (savethejoker.org -- though that domain won't start working for another day or so; for now go to http://randomthought.addr.com/rtj.html), is now live. The petition has been drafted and is in the process of being finalized. It should be online and ready to sign by tomorrow. Start spreading the word now, I'm setting an October 24th deadline for signing the sucker (seemed poetic somehow), I want to try to get enough signatures to make an impact by then. Also, if you're interested in being a regular contributor to the site's news page, let me know: cousinjean@cybergeek.com
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Inappropriate!!
PLEASE show some maturity Harry!! -
FRIGHTENING!! FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM NOW!! WHO KNOWS HOW FAR THEY'LL TAKE IT???
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If you really want to do something about this news, go to Save the Joker and sign the petition. The current address (again) is http://randomthought.addr.com/rtj.html, but the domain www.savethejoker.com should be working by Saturday. Don't just sign it, spread the word, get your friends and family to sign it too.
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that should be www.savethejoker.ORG, not .com.
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If somebody works hard enought to get the money to buy this movie then let them see the movie that the directors made, not some watered down shit. ( oh yeah and I have a 3 yr old at home who loves batman beyond and if the original version gets released ( and lets all hope it does ) Ill do MY JOB as a parent and decide not to let him see it ( Ill wait till he goes to bed to watch it ) so please WB STOP DOING MY FUCKING JOB AND PRETEND THAT PEOPLE THAT BUY DVD`S HAVE BRAINS
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Hey,
some fans got a petition going for BB:ROTJ. If you wann aget an uncut version, then please sign it!
BB:ROTJ Uncut Petition
http://www.123petitions.com/cgi-bin/system/sign1.cgi?id=bbeyond@yahoo.com$8
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After reading all the talkbacks here, I am a little curious... What exactly goes on in the screener tapes that is being censored? This sounds like the kind of Batman movie that should have been made a long time ago. I just want to know what the morons in charge think is so horrendous.
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Dammit. Mark up another one for those Columbine bastards. Politicians and money grubbing execs have found yet another way to run our lives. ROTJ was a masterpiece I couldn't wait to behold. Paul Dini and crew are brilliant. Now they're getting watered down by some execs that know nothing about art or story, just making money. This "editing" had better not happen. This isn't right. It's not fair. These people are only hampering sales in doing this anyway. Dumbasses.
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There is a link to a petition
you can sign at
www.searth.net/wfnews/ -
Oct 05, 2000 8:22:22 PM CDT
Not only will I write to the WB about this decision. . .
by sith lord jesus
. . .I'll also send a seperate letter asking them to please, please PLEASE reconsider their current casting decision re: the projected WONDER WOMAN movie. Don't get me wrong, Meriah Carey is totemo kawaii and can sing, but she is *NOT* Wonder Woman. It just. . .I mean, jeez, if they're gonna go that route, why not just get Anna Nicole Smith?!
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Welcome to the stupid Polically correct world. Where in America, if its animated and done by a corporate company. It will automaticly be censored for OUR protection.
Why? Other than Colubine, poliliclly correct groups.
Thats why i've given up on seeing anything decent from Corps. Thats why you shouldn't buy this video. To make a point. We hate it, and don't see anything but what WE WANT TO SEE.
If you want see something decent, buy Japaness Anime from Comic book conventions. Ones that are subtitled. You'll get best of the best. Forget about US animation, glory days are long since gone. BB was good idea, but WB is like all rest, over protective parents buy stuff, they won't buy this to make corp money. -
Oct 05, 2000 8:48:19 PM CDT
The necessity of a pre-emptive strike- and other matters.
by warlock one
A lot of what has been said here and there is still on a "rumors" level- but then, this is a news and rumors site, and we all know and remember that, right?
The unwillingness of Dini to release more than "no comment" _could_ indicate any number of things in the wake of an upcoming bowlderization by WB. It is entirely possible that he wishes his work to be released even if it means in an edited form if that's what it takes to get it past the brass, so to speak. It's also possible that saying more might curtail his possibility of making _any_ future films with WB far more than the movie taking a nose dive. Harry's ability to protect Dini's identity by allowing him to remain annonymous is a matter of sheer speculation.
"Return of the Joker" is probably, let us face it, going to play for a relatively small audience as a direct-to-video product. It seems unlikely that WB would be willing to eat into its own profits through subdividing that audience by releasing both a "child-friendly" and adult version on seperate media; the DVD with both versions is a much more likely idea, and if the censorship-editing news is true, and nothing stops it, I see this as a best case scenario.
(For those who scoff at the idea that the audience for this product is small, please note that the recent teen/adult oriented "Titan AE" failed at the box office, and even the much-mentioned and beloved "The Iron Giant" didn't pull very good numbers. It's still hard to release all-ages animation, or adult-themed animation, in the U.S., especially if you're not Disney.)
The relatively small size of the audience does, however, mean that the petitions and letter writing campaigns advocated could be an effective tool for change. Unfortunately, this _must_ be done whether the news is true or not, as it certainly seems WB itself cannot give us a credible denial. If censorship is Warner's current plan of action and nothing changes that course, the chance of another, unedited edition coming to market are slim indeed for the same reasons I mentioned. If the news isn't true and BB:ROTJ comes to the public in its original glory, the worst that happens is some enthusiatic fans look a little silly and feel a little embarassed. It wouldn't be the first time.
In brief-
* Hjermsted had an interesting point about the MPAA ratings system turning from an informative tool to a marketing tool; it echoes some of the things Roger Ebert said about the state of the system on his own site. (Oops- did I say a blasphemous name?...) Unfortunately, this has been the case for some time, and I don't think the "we-could-make-this-PG-13-and-sell-more-tickets" trend is going away any time soon.
* Gore? Bush? Puh-lease. Anyone who thinks one political party has the monopoly on pandering to the hysterical-paranoid-irresponsible parent voting block during election year is deluding themselves. We can only hope that when the election is over, it will go away.
* Village People? Kindly close your web browser, log onto Usenet, and go directly to alt.IStartFlameWarsAsASurrogateForASocialLife. Some people here are trying to have discussions and engage in real action here, and your postings are an inflammatory and irrelevant waste of everyone's space and my time. My bill for the latter is forthcoming.
* Nuxx? Village People is the digital equivalent of a playground bully. Chances are he doesn't even believe a notch of what he's saying; it's just there to see who'll bite. Don't bite, and he'll go some place more entertaining. Some place flamers are welcomed. I think they call it Hell.
Cheers-
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Oct 05, 2000 8:59:17 PM CDT
If Warners had a warning label, they could say they are NOT mark
by mthiel
Yes, I agree this whole "blame youth violence on the media" thing is a lot of horseshit, and I believe editing the movie is evil. But if they made two versions they could market the edited version on Kids WB and market the edited version (with no cartoon images on the cover with a warning label ("This video is not meant fo children under 13"). That way Warner could say they are NOT marketing the video to kids, and keep the parents (who should not let Washington control what media is alloed in their children's lives) and the fans. But does it make any sense that just because 2 kids shoot up their school (because they were being made fun of) and kill 13 people, that we have to sacrifice our art? Why can't people just get over Columbine already?
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Does anyone know where either online or on video the longer trailer can be found, (a good quality version)? Thanks
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First off, let me say this, "Damnit!" When I first heard about this movie, it was one I was going to go out and buy the day it was released. Dini and Co. have been able to present a Batman universe that far surpasses anything that has come before.
This only upped my anticipation for this movie.
Then I start reading the reviews about how great this movie is and I can't take the waiting anymore. I was counting the days until October so I could rush out and buy the thing. And now? It's not going to happen. Why?
I think there are a few reasons. Two big ones, really. The first is that with the recent political hearings about Hollywood, everyone is jittery. And in a way, I can't blame them. The government is oh-so-close of giving the FTC the power to remedy the sex and violence that permeates Hollywood. And what gets me is that no one made a big-to-do about the FTC. If this happens/had happened, the FTC would essentially become a censoring board, determining the movies/shows that children would be able to see. If they start with that, what's next? Books? Magazines? If this keeps up, the Thought Police will be here before you know it. Enough on that.
The second reason? Toy sales. It's possible the WB (What Brains?) screened the movie and panicked, wondering how they were going to sell those warehouses full of Chia Batman Beyond and Batman Beyond cereal. The movie wasn't marketable to kids, something had to be done. So they're probably going to edit the movie so they can sell their merchandise, and don't forget, Batman Beyond was initially created as a commercial for Batman Beyond merchandise.
What got me was one of the responses someone up above posted, made by someone at WB about releasing it near the holidays so it can be given as gifts. If the death and mayhem that usually accompanies The Joker doesn't scream Christmas, I don't know what does.
Now that I have gotten that off my chest...
I want to see the movie as it was originally meant to be. I want a copy of the screener or if anyone knows where I can find one, let me know. I have to see it.
Here's an interesting scenario, prompted by someone aluding to turning in people to the FBI due to copyright infringement.
Due to WB unable to issue a movie as originally intended or label the darn thing for teens and above, many people go after the bootleg version, since they want to see the artist's vision and version of Batman. The FBI, using the power of Carnivore (and if you haven't heard of that program yet, it's something else that will chill you), tracks down the people who get these bootlegs, arrests them and prosecutes them.
I honestly think that this scenario isn't as far-fetched today as it might have been at some point back in time.
Let's all hope that reasonable heads prevail in this whole matter. -
you have gotta be the stupidest talkbacker here. your posts are useless pieces of shit most of the time. stop boring me, get bent, and turn twelve. baff
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ok everyone i have serious problems with this issue and the talkbacks.. first i will talk to village people: i understand where you are coming from i am a 17 year old boy(not till 18 will i forever be a man) and i have a very open relationship with my parents. and i firmly believe that cartoons and comic books were originally intended for children and have always been accosiated for them.. although over the past couple decades they have evolved just as TV and Movies have into adult hood.. comic books like spoawn and preacher are meant for adults and mainstream comic books like spiderman and Xmen are more teenager oriented then anything, to prove my point look at the simpsons, it is a cartoon and it is meant for adults, not for kids! my sisters both 13 watch it and love it, thjey don't swear or anything but they think it's funny and they enjoy watching it, however we don't watch south park in this house ever, not because our partents won't allow us, when they first heard about it they let us watch a couple episodes and we chose not to continue watching it ourselves because it simply wasn't funny... but you must understand that as with all media, there are adult forms for both cartoons and comic books! it is a fact of life! the next issue i will touch on is the big one... Batman Beyond Return Of The Joker being delayed and supposedly edited: well firstoff nothing is confirmed.. although it is likely that it will be edited it isn't confirmed! let's not forget that parents who have 9 year old and younger children who like batman will buy this movie for them and it may scare the child or damage it without the parent knowing.. any normal mid 30's parent accosiates batm,an with the adam west show.. harmless fun! they think that this ROTJ movie is the same having no idea it deals with adult content.. i don't want this movie to be edited but i don't want parents to accidentally buy this movie thinking it's the batman they grew up with to be shocked by what they see(murder, sex, ultra violence and homicidal mania) the only logical choice is to release two versions! the mass KidsWB marketing campaign for the G rated cut up version with the kids friendly packeging released on the 12th of december for the kids! then a DVD un-edited directors cut (maybe with a paul dini commantary) released 3 weeks after with a warning on the packege just like violent video games... with a warning on the packege no semi-intelligent parent would buy it thinking it was harmless! simply not releaseing the original version at all is a bad choice by the WB because it endorses censorship which goes against the constitution and freedom of expression... it is every americans god given right to express themselves storywise and movie wise however they feel and censoring that is i'm afraid communism!being that only us old geeks will be the ones that want the un-cut version i see no problem in waiting a month for the uncut version on DVD with sweet extras... i'd rather wait for a month for the DVD then settle for some half assed screener copy wouldn't you? this movie is Batman's Legecy being that WB is cancelling the BB tv show after it's 56th episode... i really want this movie to stay in it's original version but i also don't want a nasty controversy about this movie corupting young minds cause the parents mistook it for THEIR batman when it was clearly OUR batman... times have changed! would a show like the sopranos be on TV in the 60's or 70's? i doubt it! or what about a show like west wing or ER? youmust understand that if WB releases this thing with the aformentioned scenes intact with the kiddie packeging no good will come of it... controversy will commence and it will force WB to scrap all other paul dini projects!i want to help everyone out there with an answer to this so email me at deaconfrost99@yahoo.com if you have an idea or email address where i can emailmy thoughts or petitions or whatever.. and if you want to discuss what i've said with me email me ok? i'm simply distraut over this and don't know what to do
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Oct 06, 2000 2:35:03 AM CDT
Um, you may want to reconsider storming the castle with those to
by mister nobody
I suspect that you guys may be a little premature with your angry mob. IGN.com talked to a WB PR rep today and got this explanation:
"When we saw the quality of the image, which was a lot better than we expected, we pushed it back into the holiday season to avoid its being percieved as a Halloween product...they may be adding stuff to it, but I don't know for sure."
In response to rumors that WB may be re-editing the movie to tone it down he said, "We've had the Batman Beyond property for a number of years, we know what it is and there's no need to mess with it."
Here's the article: http://dvd.ign.com/previews/745.html
While I'm at it, Cinescape got in touch with Paul Newman's publicist to ask about the Batman Beyond casting rumor/hoax:
"Who said that?" she asked. "Um, it was on the web," we told her. "Not a chance," she said. "I don't know how these stories get started."
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Everything I saw before the movie was delayed said that the running time was 76 Minutes. This is confirmed by a few people in this very talkback who have preview copies. The IGN Article mentioned above, and a few other places I've looked are now saying 70 minutes. I thought it was a mistake 'till I saw it on 3 different sites. Looks to me that its definately being edited.
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....when my father took me to see Apocalypse Now,Halloween, The Warriors,The Godfather,The Fog and so forth.
I'm not warped,I've never killed anyone,laid in the road with traffic, jumped off a roof ,stabbed my brother with a aknife or anything else.
PARENTS - STOP BLAMING THE MEDIA!TEACH YOUR CHILDREN!!!!
Give me a Break!!! -
Should you blame the government? Should you blame Hollywood? NO! BLAME CANADA!!
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Maybe I'm not reading this right, but if you go to amazon.com, then ROTJ dvd tech information it says:
Theatrical release: October 24
Dvd release: December 12
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Some are saying 74-76 minutes; IGN says 70 minutes. Sounds like we're missing 4-6 minutes.
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Harry,
I think this a tragedy. To think its been the Bat-fans from the past years that have kept the Legend of the Dark Knight alive. I can understand that children should be protected from violence but the parents should also teach their children that its just a cartoon. I personally think that if they are going to edit the movie down then the WB geniuses should take a hard look at their lineup. Shows like MIB, Pokemon, and all the other ones should be subjected to the same rules. Why is it that the Mantle of the Bat is being made to be the scape goat? That bears some thinking. So everyone should turn up the heat on the WB people. Don't just send one email, phone call, or letter. Instead keep doing it. When you hang up call them right back. when you send the email, send them one again. Post opinions on web-sites. Goto your local comic shop and ask them to post flyer about keep this film being made into something its not. Keep sending those letters.
Leo Mitchell -
if anyone can make me a copy of the screener, i will pay, or i can trade. i have many uncut screeners that i will not list here. email me at tool523@yahoo.com
PLEASE!!!!! -
As a future parent, I view this censorship as exactly that, and am reminded of the group in Washington in the late 1960's that caused the death of super-hero shows like Space Ghost, Herculoids, Fantastic Four, Young Samson, Fantastic Voyage, Spider-man, Etc. It was deemed then that shows like these were too violent for kids, and animation houses like Hannah Barbera caved in and pandered to them, which is how the more softened approach came about, bringing an avalanche of condescending canned laughter programming for children. Scooby Doo may make the Warmer Bros. money, but it has always been, to fans of quality animation, poorly done schlock which was responsible for "The Hair Bear Bunch", "Brady Kids", "Hong Kong Phooey", "Grape Ape", lord- I could go on and on. Anyone out there remember how animation was in danger of dying? Even in the late seventies, Batman was softened with Bat- Mite, and the return to the airwaves of the Fantastic Four was ruined at the start with the political decision of putting in Herbie the Robot (had it been a Hannah B. show, they'd have poured on the canned laughter and we'd see stuffed Herbies in WB stores today).
In short, this approach condescends to our children and keeps whole families away from watching them together in many cases, leaving only the little ones alone to view it for the lack of anything better on television at that time (Hell, we all watched them alas).
"Of course adults hate children. Just look at Saturday Morning television"-Matt Groening, 1980's.
Now, since then, whole families can watch animation together again with shows like The Simpsons and the award winning Batman Superman shows, and that is the whole point. Don't aspire toward ratings alone, but QUALITY for all ages. Raise the ceiling in your thinking please, whoever is responsible for censoring the always responsible work of Paul Dini and Bruce Timm. Edit the trash out of your Saturday lineup if you wish to pander to the latest politicians to feel good. Leave the ones that care to give us something special alone. There's a family out there waiting to assemble in front of that box for something that will make them say "Let's watch that again."
One final thought- Sony- if a slick, 28 year old short haired female studio exec comes in with 12 cell phones insisting on changing Spider-man to "Butter-fly man", a being with a butterfly on his chest who simply lands on "bad men's" arms so softly and gently that they become tranquil from his colorful suit and lay there guns down to have a picnic together, please throw the woman out, or at least lock her in a room filled with screens showing the Thomas the Tank Engine movie! -
this is for children
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All I got back from mailing to Suzanna Cabillo was a one-liner "Please refer to customer service"... I guess the poor PR flak is getting carpet-bombed with e-mails griping about her sorry company f**king up an excellent story to suck up to Gore/Lieberman, who I've noticed for all their complaints about violence, haven't stopped trolling for Hollywood's $$$upport...
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Did they recall the video? I got it and a bunch of others in ChinaTown in NYC this last week. Looks good to me, even got GirlFight and some others. Whats the story. 4 Bucks each.
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It kicks ass! Man it looks good, edited or not (however it will be ridiculous if the DO edit it). If you haven't see in go to express.com and search for the ROTJ dvd. Can't....wait...must...have
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In ROTJ, Robin is kidnapped by the Joker (in a flashback to the classic Batman timeline) and is tourted and brainwashed with a big Joker grin on his face and dressed in Joker garb. Batman and Batgirl come to rescue him and the ruins of Arkham. Outraged, Batman fights the joker, where he gets stabbed, and Batgirl fights Harley Quinn, and Harley falls off a cliff. the Joker tells Tim/Robin to shoot Batman. Batman pleas with Robin, and Robin turns the gun on Joker and kills him. Robin;s laughing turns to tears, and that's the end of Tim's career as Robin.
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Oct 06, 2000 12:57:03 PM CDT
Why On Earth Do People Feel The Need To Post Spoilers In Talk Ba
by cowblaster
So you guys can prove how cool you are by showing off the fact you've seen the movie before the rest of us? To rub our noses in it? Sheesh! And, by the way, thanks to the guy who decided to print that HUGE line of text that screwed up the page, so you could prove to us you've seen the movie. THUMBS UP, SOLDIER!!!
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Oct 06, 2000 1:02:09 PM CDT
Could someone please tell Studio Suit to mellow the fuck out!!!!
by andymation
Yes, bootlegs are illegal and, yes, if you get caught you get ounished. That's a risk. But you don't rat on something so small and innocent like that!!!!!! Don't tell me that you, Studio Suit, goes:
"Hey, guard!!!!" when soemone picks up a videocamera during a screening. This isn't taking money from the poor we are talking about here for christ's sake! This is fucking HOLLYWOOD. All the CEOs and executives have so much money they can wipe their own ass with it!!!!! Bootlegging movies won't harm any comapny's economy more than maybe a buck here and there, which they CAN afford!!!!!!!! If you are not a police officer or and FBI-member yourself I suggest that you stop playing a kindergarden-uncle in a FUCKING TB!!!! This is not Ricki Lake for crying out loud......
Now, another issue I would like to approach is the anime/comics for kids/adults-thing!! Both sides are "wrong". I mean, there is no reason that animaters and comic writers should have to feel obliged to make things for just kids more than any other form for movies/TV-shows et cetera. So geeks have destroyed "Halloween" for kids?? Well, I'm not a yankee like most of y'all, but I can tell you what the impression you make on the whole world is.... Kids still go around trick or treating in suits in the USA. The fact that horro flicks happens to have premiers at the time (Now why would they do that?????) doesn't affect the "innocent". That's how I feel it is, but like I said, I'm NOT a yankee. What I do feel, however, is that the whole Halloween is a bit too shallow. Sure, your bolld and gore is one heckuva' cool celebration and I envy you, but I also feel that that (and a lot of other things in North-American culture) is creating a false picture of ddeath. It makes death a joke, at best something that scares you. Now, if you in addition to your "goo, skeletons and guts" would've had a day where you honored your dead relatives and maybe talked a bit about death seriously, then it will all be better. But I'm getting away from my point. My point is, animation and comic books should be allowed to come in all shapes and forms like it does now. Some is just for the kids, some is just for the older and some is for both! I cannot see how adult animated movies can ruin animation for kids!!! It's like "South Park: The Movie"-man when Sheila Broslofski have a discussion with the canadian ambassador. it is not intended for children! They are not supposed to see it!! So how can it ruin something for them if they're not allowed to see it?? But, no, I know why this whole fuzz is on. This is all the parents who let the kids grow up in front of the TV. i don't care how badly received "Cableguy" was, it's message was so great, important and well-put! Don't let the TV turn in to the babysitter! A TV can't replace contact with parents. If TV is exposed to a child from the early beginning 24/7 it's gonna' brainwash the child and then there will be another school-shooting. If parents could just spend more time with their children everything would be so much better. I f there is something that you aren't wuite sure if you want the kid tp watch then take the time to watch it with it and explain things on the way!!! You can't just be away all day, censor all art in the world and then come home and blame someone/something if your child turned out to be an ax-murderer. If you wasn't there then that's the main reason, goddamn it!!!! What I am saying is, animation as any other artistic expression should be allowed to have a variation of targeting groups, like things are starting to turn out now. There are tons of anime-kiddie flicks out there but also things like "The Simpsons", "South Park" et cetera. Oh and don't pay any attention to Studio Suit, I don't think he really can dig up your adresses by your e-mail. I just think mr. Studio Suit just has to many stains on him to be weared!! Hahahaha (Yeah, I know it wasn't funny at all.)
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.... And sorry 'bout all the bad grammar and spelling in my current soap-box speech concerning Sudio Suit and animation targeting groups. I shall hang myself for this... Ah, now my conscience is clean (I have a very strong neck!)
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You are the one that needs to calm down. I was joking. I am here to defend the studios. Nothing more.
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"please refer to customer service" No capital letters, no periods. Obviously copied & pasted to a bunch of different Emails. I've gotta admit though, I'm surprised we got any response at all. I'm sure she read the first 3 or 4 Emails, and copied & pasted the response to all the other ones without glancing over them.
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YOU ARE CUSTOMER SERVICE, BITCH. Without customers, you've got nothing to manage.
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Sorry, I know this is off the subject of the petition and all but I figured I'd throw this up since there are so many Batman fans in one place. I put this Harley wallpaper together a few months ago.
http://jimcorbin.tripod.com/harlybackground.jpg
Figured some of you might like it. Could be wrong. -
Ive been looking everywhere and Im beginning to think WB has committed another travesty. From what I can tell, Batman and Mr. Freeze: Sub Zero was never released on DVD. What the hell is up with that? Does anyone know where to find it on DVD?
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...complained.I am writing this from home and cannot scroll down to see your name(I have WebTV). I didn't write that to rub it anyone's face - I wrote that to show exactly how people can take information like that and write or call WB cmplaining without seeing the movie first when the info they just read isn't true.I noticed Dark Hrizons has altered their original post.I didn't give a spoiler filled post like the asshole above, but was simply trying to show how silly this recut is because the sequence implies alot but shows very little.
This is a very emotional and well sequence and recutting it will really sour if not ruin the experience.Same with the knife sequence,after it comes out of his sleeve,it's not shown again.I was just trying to straighten out info people might have read that wasn't accurate. -
Once again, the real fans are denied to satisfy (or stupidfy!) the masses. The idea of "dumbing down" or cutting a film for the sake of appealing to a small segment of the population, who don't have any real buying power anyway, is chilling. Forget Orwell's 1985, we've got Gore's 2000, and Big Brother is not only watching you, he's attacking your first ammendment rights by deciding what you should and shouldn't see. This is hypocrasy and censorship of the highest magnatude! If we as fans allow this to unchecked and unchallenged, we have noone to blame but ourselves, and nothing to look forward to except more "happy" Batman episodes of Super Friends! Where's Frank Miller when we really need him! Face it folks, if this kind of meddling by WB happens, the Dark Knight ain't returning, he's retreating.
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Had to wait two days to post it (strange rules on the site) but I figure one more can't hurt!
http://www.petitionpetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=852
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Oct 07, 2000 5:18:07 AM CDT
Allright then Studio Suit, I apologize, I thought you were dead
by andymation
...and also I would like to say that.... despite Lieberman's fucked up attitude with culture and pofanities (He can't take his "sewer awards" and shove'em up his ass!!!!)don't vote for the republicans!!!! The democrats are still the better altrenative! Since I have no influence on the election here from Norway, but know that the most powerful world in the country is a concern of everybody, I would have to say: vote for Al Gore, please do!!! A vote for Georg W. Bush Jr. is a vote for racism and a widening of class differences. It's a vote for harder conditions for the lower and middle-class. It's a vote for enviromental damage. It's a vote for a hostile attitude towards the rest of the world. It's a vote for discrimnating all kinds of minorities. It's a vote for letting big companies and dead presidents be of the major concern and people the second. So please, I beg of you, vote for the Democrats and if they win just keep on botlegging when they decide to cut out half a movie.
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As adults, and especially as children, our behavior and beliefs are largely dictated by Social Learning. Our culture is disproportionatley saturated with violent imagery. The dominant cultural paradigm convinces us through Social Learning that violence is not just normal, but entertaining (hence this Talkback board). Consequently, human behavior is more violent than it needs to be. People you love may get hurt.****I can tell you all this, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you'll grasp it or let it inform you. The paradigm mentioned above is very strong, and difficult to get beyond. Try to think about all this later.
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I've been waiting a long time for this to come out. I've got a copy on reserve from Amazon. But if they're gonna cut this thing up then I'm gonna cancel my copy and see if they decide to release an un-edited version. What a shame. I was really psyched when I read the early review too!
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Before you over-react, I'm not saying you shouldn't buy it, I understand there are alot of people who want to give the subject and and the genre the support it needs. But the way to send a message is to cancel your pre-orders, the distrubutors, retailers and E-retailers will be forced to go to Warner and complain about a product that not only doesn't look like it's going to sell well to them, but that they over ordered their stock, I'd probably give it a week or so before I'd buy it, so initial numbers will be coming in first
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Quick thought,
Ask any one of the legions of Anime fans out there and they'll tell you that cartoons don't HAVE to be for kids ONLY! This misconception is why so many parents freaked out when they took their kids to see "Princess Mononoke". Batman beyond is a well-written, intriguing show, that deserves credit. Save Batman Beyond! -
Its damn good too. I can see why they want to edit the fuck out of it now. But in all honesty after they get done with it it wont be much of a feature length film... mbe lucky to make it a half hour episode.
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Those who do not want the violence in the new Batman Beyond movie can just cry. People should remember that batman was not very friendly kiddiesh type in the comic books. A solution so the babies can have their way too is there should be a copy for the mature audience and a copy for the pussies.
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For those that missed it, the World's Finest petition against the editing is at: http://www.123petitions.com/cgi-bin/system/sign1.cgi?id=bbeyond@yahoo.com$8
So, if you haven't, SIGN IT! -
Look government should not dictate and have their way in family life. I have a four year old boy and im not hiding or sheltering anything from him. Just because they dont see it in movies dont mean they wont pick it up in thee street..
THINK PEOPLE
Govenrmet needs to stay out of it -
I HATE to see edited movies, one day I was Happy when I bought my independence day movie (ID4), only to find out years later that the new DVD version contains brand new footage that was cut from the original version.
I just hope that this problem will be solved with the release of 2 versions cut & uncut, that is the easiest way to keep everyone happy. -
I go to the Art Institute of Seattle and we are taught two things: 1.) commercialism (from the school) 2.) Be true to yourself and your talent. Never compromise just to please the masses. (this was actaully taught by the teachers...NOT by the school) I love cartoons, art, anime in all shapes and forms. There's two options the WB has. One, they make two versions (which would probally be preferred from both sides). OR they just make the "kiddie" version and expect to lose money over angry fans or bootleg copys being bought over the internet and what not. I'm just like you guys. I'm angry at this also. I try to live up to the "no compromise" rule that my fellow teachers have taught me. And to see the WB tease us first off to what we "could" have to what we are going to get. Crap. Personally I feel sorry for the animators. Sure they got paid but that isn't the point. When you create something, you put your heart and soul into it. A lot of sleepless nights goes into making animation. And then just to have some exec. come into the room and go "cut here and here and here snip there" it a killer. Because they will NEVER know what YOU went through to get to that level of quality. Here's a fact some of you might not know in the world of cartoons and such. Every second that goes by when you watch a cartoon you just witnessed 30 drawings. Thats right, so every minute that the WB takes away from BATMAN BEYOND is 1,800 drawings an animator sees go down the drain. Sucks huh? You guys keep it coming! Let's see if we can stop this film from being stripped and raped!!!
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Being a writer, I understand what censorship can do to a person's work. Many stories I wrote involved violence and those stories even won contests. I am a teenager and I am not a warped or violent person. On the contrary, I avoid confrontation. This is because my PARENTS taught me what is right and what is wrong. In Japan, kids see hardcore violence on television all the time. The difference is that the parents demand respect and teach their children that what they see on television is nothing but a writer's idea in the form of a cartoon and is not to be enacted on fellow members of the human race. Blame in the U.S. is being showered everywhere but where it should be. It's time for lazy parents to take responsibility for what their children watch and do so people who can handle mature content can enjoy the artist's vision. I am all for the cut version on VHS and the uncut on DVD. I don't even own a DVD player but I would buy both just so that when I do get a DVD player I can enjoy the story in its original form. I'm tired of being denied because of the stupidity of others.
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Bottom line--if no uncut version is released, then bring on the bootlegs.
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If ANYONE is willing to sell me a bootleg PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE email me at jay_johnson@und.nodak.edu.
I cannot take anymore corporate rape. -
If anyone has the Return of Joker Bootleg, PLEASE let me know and you will be "compensated". Thanks.
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