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A Good, Long Look At ANDROMEDA
SPOILER ALERT !!
El Cosmico here, with my take on the latest series from beyond...Andromeda. Lots of spoilers in here. Lots of you have seen Herc's review, which I think is fair based on what he's seen, but then, he's only seen half of the pilot episode.
I've seen both halves of the pilot, and the two episodes that follow it, so
I think I have a pretty fair handle on where the show is going, and what we can expect.
First, let me give you some background info. This show bears Gene Roddenberry's name,
but from what I've heard, is based on notes he wrote, not an actual script or fully
fleshed-out concept.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. The same is pretty much true of another show
I like, Earth: Final Conflict. Not that I think EFC is a work of genius, mind you, I
just think it's fairly different and original, and I think the cast is pretty cool.
Like EFC, this show comes out of Canada, which again, is not a bad thing. So does
EFC, so do a lot of the English-speaking world's best comedians, and so does Lexx, a show
that I appreciate for its weirdness and camp quality, as well as for its thoroughly
attractive female lead. So, Andromeda comes from a place with potential, and experience
in sci-fi.
I must confess that when I first saw the designs and descriptions for Andromeda,
I was completely underwhelmed. I didn't like the costumes, and the descriptions sounded,
either cheesy or hokey. Well, a good bit of both. Of course, the inclusion of Kevin Sorbo
as the lead threw me for a loop. While I think he's done a fine job as Hercules, I
couldn't really picture him in a serious sci-fi show.
Add to this, an enormous amount of hype being generated by the show's PR people,
including comparisons to, of all things, The West Wing. The word repeatedly coming out
of the Andromeda folks has been that this will be a new, different show, that takes
science fiction to new places, new heights. There was mention of no more playing fast
and loose with the laws of physics just for convenience, that there were scientific
advisors to help the writers make the genre more consistent, and more believable.
All of this hype, I basically ignored. Seeing the website that was up for a long time,
I didn't think that the hype matched what little substance I'd seen. Finally, last week,
I saw the two-hour pilot and the following two episodes.
"If the Commonwealth's High Guard had a weakness, it was this: Its officers were too
competent, too caring, and too brave." So begins the pilot...and so begin my problems with
this show. Can someone explain to me how competence, caring, and bravery are weaknesses?
The flip side of this, of course, is that incompetence, coldness, and cowardice would be
strengths. Coldness I might understand, but incompetence and cowardice?
Okay, I tell myself, that's just a writer trying to be a fancy-pants, just get past it
and watch the show. First off, they're all wearing ROCKETEER uniforms. Okay, that's not
a big deal. A little blatant, but by episode three, Sorbo changes into a better uniform
anyway. The "Nietzchiean" first officer is annoying. It turns out, they all are. Again,
not really a big deal, they're just obsessive type-As, generally cold bastards.
Interface elements are cool. Layouts of command and control displays throughout the
three episodes I've seen are consistently well-done, definitely respectable. Borrowed
from recent Star Trek series? Yes. That's okay, though, and there are moderate
changes to give them a different look.
The aliens in the crew are terrible. Just awful makeup. The pilot has an insect
at the conn. It looks...really bad. Further episodes feature a "Magog" creature, which
is annoying for other reasons, but in any case, also looks really bad. The one good looking
alien is Laura Bertram, as Trance Gemini. Essentially, she's a cute purple girl with a
tail. Mind you, there's no real purpose for her character, but, at least she's not bothersome,
and easy on the eyes. Also in the pilot, there a grey guy with tusks coming out of his face,
again, I say, this is truly terrible alien design. Oh, I didn't mention the other thing I don't like about the Magog. It's part of a cult called "The Wayans" (No, not the Wayans Brothers), basically this means that he spouts off frequently in a manner that well, sounds like new-agey psycho-babble. Trying to be profound, but really just sounding pretty lame. Quite awful dialogue.
The Andromeda, headed by Captain Dylan Hunt (Sorbo) is beseiged by a Nietschean attack.
The Nietscheans are an overachieving, supposedly more highly evolved race, who, as mentioned
before, are cold bastards. During this battle, I have a couple of problems. First, the
Andromeda's weapons array consists of either using small drones for offense and defense,
and "Nova Bombs", strategic weapons which can each destroy a world or star. Throughout
the episodes I've seen, there are seemingly no weapons of moderate strength. You either
go all out, or have piddly little pea-shooters. In the third episode, the main weapon
system used is a set of small physical projectiles. No serious energy weapons, no deflection array.
Defenses are conducted by manual control.
There is a serious problem in this ship's design. Without the use of energy weapons,
relying on mass-weapons, the ship is sure to exhaust offensive capability VERY quickly,
with no means of replenishment after events unfold in the pilot episode. Drones are used to
provide sensor capability and defense, and when they are eliminated, the ship itself loses
ALL sensor capability and ALL defense capability.
WHAT? You mean that there are no on-ship sensors or defensive weapons of significance?
That's right. This is a warship, remember. Of "The High Guard". The guys who are supposed
to be "too competent". To add further confusion, the chair where the conn officer sits moves.
In fact, it rocks back and forth on a pivot when damage is being done to the ship, or a
particularly rapid movement is being made.
One might say that this is done to compensate for motion, but this could only be true if
other members of the crew were affected, and they are generally LESS affected by motion than
the conn officer. In fact, the conn officer is thrown about, barely able to hold onto the
chair. I say to you: this makes no sense.
Another problem, which can only be attributed to sloppy writing, is when the Nova Bombs
must be used. Remember in STIII: The Search For Spock when Kirk, Scotty, and Chekhov self-destruct the
Enterprise, using their separate access codes? This is a security measure, similar to that
used by nuclear weapons facilities and nuclear submarines. The reason measures like this are
taken are to ensure ONLY ONE THING. That one person can't operate the weapons alone. This
protects against both rogue captains and against mutinies.
By the time the Nova Bombs are used, the Andromeda Ascendant has lost its original crew.
Captain Hunt apparently doles out access codes to his new crew, made up of a band of shipwreck
salvagers. It seems to me that this COMPLETELY DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING THESE CODES IN THE
FIRST PLACE. Total lack of security for a weapon that can destroy an entire solar system.
If the captain can just give out access codes to anyone, what's to stop him from killing his
first officer and command crew and replacing them whenever they disagree with him? This was
simply not thought through. No explanation is given. It's called sloppy writing.
Back to ship design, Andromeda, the ship's computer, played by Lexa Doig, complains when
she loses her androids, which assist her in running the ship. My question is this: why would
a ship's computer need androids to operate systems that she's already hooked up to?
Lexa Doig is definitely attractive in her role, she does a fine job with what she's given,
but the way she's written doesn't make any sense. She not only expresses, but acts on
human emotions. She's too emotional. She reacts sexually to the captain. This is an AI
unit. Sexual impulses are chemical. I suppose they could be programmed, but why would
someone program an AI to do things that could only interfere with it performing its duties well?
Why would an AI be given motivations that are counter to its design purpose? This makes
no sense. Providing a friendly interface is one thing, but this goes too far. It's bad
design.
Kevin Sorbo does a fine job in his role, he has all new "high-tech hair", and in my opinion,
performs well. I think Hercules fans will like this show simply because he's in it. Even
though Hercules is a more humorous and enjoyable show, Sorbo does well with what he's given.
Again, though, I have a problem with the material he has to work with. His character is
non-chalant, very casual. This is supposed to be an elite captain, guarding an immense
commonwealth. He doesn't seem to take matters seriously. Even after he is presented with
his new...situation, and must try to rebuild the commonwealth from scratch, the gravity of the
situation is not reflected in his actions. By the end of the third episode, I began to see
signs of improvement, both in the lines he was given, and in the actions he performs.
Hopefully, the trend will continue.
There's no perfect place to say this: their handheld weapons look like dildos. In dildo
form, they fire energy pulses. It seems to me that a dildo-shaped device would be
exceptionally poor at aiming. They also extend to form staves, which can be used to beat upon
one's opponent. There's not much more I can say about that.
I know this is sort of all over the place, but here's another issue. When the tow-ship
is pulling the Andromeda Ascendant out of the grip of the black hole in the pilot, tow cables
begin to snap. Now, the laws of physics dictate that this would increase the tension on the
remaining cables. So, how do they get out of it? Increase thrust. Okay, but that would
GREATLY increase tension on the remaining cables, ensuring that the remaining cables would snap.
The way to escape safely without losing more tow cables SHOULD have been to decelerate. Laws
of the universe. Again, this makes no sense, and it's sloppy writing.
The salvage crew's engineer is a likable character, although I'm not sure why growing
up in a refugee camp makes a person have a weak immune system. The new Nietschean has long
hair, which is generally a symbol of vanity, which one would think would be counter to
Nietschean philosophy, as it could hinder survival. In addition, it seems that the
Nietscheans haven't learned what the Romans did...if you have long hair, your enemies can
grab onto it. The creature who hired the salvage crew looks like a pimp, which I suppose is
fine, the captain of the salvage vessel isn't terribly likeable, but I'm not sure that she's
meant to be at first. In any case, the captain of a ship, ANY ship, needs to inspire confidence.
This captain, however, is constantly unsure of herself. Definitely not inspiring.
There are also really REALLY blatant Matrix ripoffs throughout the pilot, most apparent
when Captain Hunt fights a cyborg. No, it's not well done, it's obvious and cheap. Then,
of course, there's also the sequence when the engineer goes into the virtual world of the
ship's computer...by jacking in through the plug in the back of his neck. Ring a bell?
There's mention during the final crisis of the pilot episode that black holes exit in
other universes. The idea that a ship, especially THIS ship could survive a black hole...
give me a break. Then, they use Nova Bombs to blow up the black hole, which creates a
"white hole", which they describe as a miniature big bang. Man, this is wrong in so many ways.
Let's see, what else...crewmembers can operate any station, seemingly with nearly no
training. The ship's defense systems, the drones I mentioned, are MANUALLY targeted.
Why exactly did they put an AI, and massive computer systems into this ship, if they don't
DO anything? THIS MAKES NO SENSE!
Okay, I could go on and on. I think you get the point. This show has a lot of problems.
In succeeding episodes, I was hoping that these issues would be addressed, that things would
improve, but they didn't.
The performances weren't great, but they weren't terrible, and some were good. The general
premise, I think, is actually interesting and different. The idea that the captain of
an old commonwealth vessel emerges three hundred years later, and wants to rebuild what he's
lost, well, that's got serious potential. I think the wardrobe is a bit too wacky. This
isn't a serious problem, because of course, outfits can be changed at any point. No big
deal. The alien designs are...bad. Not a show-killer, in fact, they ALMOST killed off the
Magog in the second episode. Maybe next time. The main problems I have with this show are:
design choices aren't thought through, the science and engineering isn't even close to being
sound, and the writing is average at best, and very sloppy at worst. Not terribly imaginative,
pretty standard fare, in fact. Not thought through, cutting corners, inexcusable.
So, Andromeda's start is nothing stellar. But, remember how Star Trek: The Next Generation
started out? I hated those uniforms too, thought the characters weren't compelling, and the
first few episodes were, well, nothing to be thrilled about. In fact, I thought the pilot of
ST: TNG was pretty dumb. Is it fair to judge Andromeda differently? Probably not. Here's
how I see it...Andromeda has gotten off to a mediocre start, like a lot of shows do. Problem is,
so many of these shows have been done already, is that really an excuse anymore? The
producers need to take a good hard look at this show, and decide where they want to take it.
Either they make some serious changes and improve the situation, or this will be yet another
average sci-fi show, not really worthy of note. Not as good as EFC, not as good as LEXX, not
even as good as Farscape, and definitely not as good as Babylon 5. As good as Voyager? Maybe
so. Only time will tell. There's
still a LOT of time for this show to improve. Maybe it will, and the commonwealth will be saved.
I hope so.
-El Cosmico
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I don't think they blew the ship up in wrath of khan. It's been a while since I have seen it though.
I hold out a bit of hope for this show though I read a more positive review on cinescape's site. Maybe they can iron out the problems. We will see. -
Oct 03, 2000 12:58:05 AM CDT
Somehow I knew that after all that analysis, the first post of t
by toby o notoby
Thanks for not disappointing. As for the show. Well, a lot of what El C. points out comes down to your personal tolerence level for this kind of thing. Some guys can't stand it when the cowboy shoots 7 times from his trusty Colt, some can. Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle. For example, I don't mind that some guys can operate the ship without training. I just figure that there were trained sometime when I wasn't looking, possibly during a commercial for feminine products. What I can't handle is a ship crashing into a blackhole and then being towed out - by *cables* no less. "Hey Cletus! How y'all gonna get the trailer outta th' quantum singularity?" "I figgured we'd just-a hook it up to mah pickup 'un tow 'em out, like the time we did when yo Ma got stuck in the squirril tree!"
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You guys were right, it was Search For Spock. Oh well, I've corrected it.
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nitpicking is fun! Anyway, this show is going to blow so hard...why the hell can't anyone just fucking hire a damn physics major and get their shit right? It would be so fucking easy! MORONS!!!!!!!!!!!!
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...or at least stop taking his doodlings and turning them into multi-million dollar undertakings (which all TV shows are nowadays). You know, I wouldn't be surprise if this show had NOTHING to do with Roddenberry. I bet some smart-ass kid in a suit somewhere went to Roddenberry's wife (who I assume owns rights to his estate) and made a little offer -- a couple of million and producer credit to put Roddenberry's name on a show. Or maybe Roddernberry DID thought of this. Fact is, he never took the time to flesh it out, and it's very unfair (even purposefly deceitful), to put his name on this show and call it one of his. I also think that the one problem people have when starting up all new sci-fi shows is that they concentrate too damn much on the "cool premise" and forget the most important aspect of creating a successful show -- GET GOOD WRITERS! How many people will actually watch this show because they tacked on Roddenberry's name? I know I'm not, and going by this review (and believe me, I'm one of those people who believes El Cosmico will swallow ANYTHING they shovel at him), I don't think I'll be seeking it out -- wherever it comes on.
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(shouting) K-H-A-N!!!! K-H-A-N!!!!!
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Sure don't sound like it. The Undead have spoken.
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As anybody who has played the Shadowrun role-playing game knows, "jacking into the Matrix" (it's even called that in the game)has been around since 1989. In fact, the game even has special computer chips called skill-softs that you can insert into slots in your head and which give you the skills programmed onto them. So slot one in and BANG. Instant judo expert. Sound familiar? And ten years before the supposedly "ground-breaking" Matrix.
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Okay, I typically enjoy El Cosmico's stuff. The one thing that always gets to me about his reviews, though, is the intense desire that what he sees on screen agree with his understanding of science. It's a bit too Randist for me... Hey, it's television! I could give a shit about how the sci-fi logic works out. Hell, people could see out of the back of their heads for all I care about, or fly in and out of black holes like they were potholes, as long as the show is internally consistent, there's really no reason to complain. What's more important is P-L-O-T. I didn't get too much of that from Cosmico's review, which dissapoints me. Still, the thoughts on the look & feel were worthwhile. I'll probably watch if it comes on at the right time, but I don't plan on setting my VCR for it. ALSO: Plugging a computer into your brain predates the Matrix and Shadowrun. I can't remember the author's name, but I know that someone in the seventies used it. Of course, the most popular use of this concept (which also included plugging into a Matrix, not just a single machine) was Neuromancer, my William Gibson. Yes, I know that it's redundant to repeat that yet again on the 'net, but you'd be surprised who doesn't know about it... That's it for me. Remember, a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush.
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Sorbo is an idiot. He's such a good actor as a brick can be. He's a godd Herc, no doubt, but he's an idiot anyway. Man, I'll go watch Xena, not Andromeda. And BTW, let the dead rest... Enough Roddenberry...
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Is it just me, or is this review basically one long technical nitpick that reveals nothing so much as El Cosmico's own scientific ignorance?
They don't have energy shielding? That's someone trying to use accurate science (how the hell does an energy shield work), not a sci fi cliche.
They use drones as sensor platforms. If your sensors are lightspeed limited (which according to the Andromeda website, they are), that makes a hell of a lot of sense, actually, especially if you want to extend your sensor range. The US Navy does this today.
Most serious science fiction writing that deals with space combat has the ships lobbing guided missiles at each other from huge distances away, as they seem to be doing on Andromeda. Dissipation means that energy weapons are useless at anything further away than point blank range.
It looks as if the model Andromeda is shooting for is more like an Aegis missile cruiser and less like a World War One battleship (like Star Trek) or WW2 fighter planes (like Star Wars.)
And there's not reason in hell why an AI can't be emotional, and a lot of good reasons why it should be (relating to the crew, for one.)
In a lot of ways, Andromeda can't win. If aspects of it are familiar, it's ripping off Star Trek.
If it's doing things differently, it's bad and inaccurate because it's NOT Star Trek. (never mind Star Trek's huge number of scientific inaccuracies.) -
No offense, Frank, but since you asked, here's how an energy shield works...check out:
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/cold_plasma_000724.html
, now, you go on to talk about sensors being lightspeed limited, I understand the advantage of putting sensor beacons out, my problem is that the main ship itself has NO sensor capability of its own without the beacons. Now, I read the explanations at the link that alesbianchatroom posted, and well, those make sense...the only problem is that this isn't how the ship works in the show. It just isn't. Apparently, the writers need to be notified...they're sloppy and lack consistency. The missile thing has some credence, but again, I ask you, why aren't there any medium-force weapons? The AI thing...well, I guess you didn't read all of what I said about it. My problem isn't in how it relates to the crew, but that it takes actual emotional motivation from them. That's a totally different thing. Finally, back to the ship defense thing. When you watch the show, you'll see what I'm talking about, the ship CAN'T defend itself or use ANY sensor capability without the probes. This isn't a question of good or bad science, folks, it's called stupid ship design. The science has nothing to do with it. -
I wrote a short story about that in the mid-eighties. Then I ran into it in a sci-fi book in the early nineties with a similar idea. It's not a new concept.
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HOLY SHIT! This is toooooo funny! The email address that "Frank Grimes" links to is in fact that of Zack Stentz, one of the writers on Andromeda! Feeling insecure, Zack? Looks like old El C. knocked down all of your points pretty handily. Next time, write a better show. If it sucks, it's YOUR FAULT, not El Cosmico's. Jeez...this is really tacky of you. Oh, and for the people questioning the Matrix link, with everything else they rip off, do you really think the Andromeda people know about Shadowrun? I doubt it. Looks like this is gonna be one hell of a LAME show unless they get new writers...and writers who don't post bitchy, petty talkbacks.
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Why dont we all watch it before we start reviewing it? And.... I could care about Psychics in a Sci Fi show. This is not suppose to be fact because...Its Sci Fi. If you want reality, go watch Apollo 13 again. Geez.
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Any idiot could click on my id and find that out (and has, it appears). I've never made any effort to hide my identity. I've just been using this account since before I was an Andromeda writer and didn't want to call undue attention to myself. But now that I've been unmasked, allow me to elaborate
El Cosmico irritated me because he's nitpicking science he doesn't know anything about and taking shots at us for not living up to his assumptions about a science fiction show which have been shaped by other tv shows.
In fact, come to Slipstreambbs.com and you'll see me and the other writers explaining the science as well as discussing and--yes-- arguing with fans over it.
And while I'm on the subject, why don't we return to the subject: Andromeda's science.
In fact, plasma shielding only works against energy weapons, which as I've noted before, are useless at any kind of relativistic diistances.
Also, Andromeda's kinetic missiles travel at .9 c and impact with the force of multi-megaton nuclear weapons. If that's your definition of a pea-shooter, I'd like to see that pea.
And it's explicity called out onscreen that Andromeda has her own sensors, active and passive in fact. Just as it's also called out that sometimes the sensors get damaged and the ship has to rely on her drones instead.
And as we point out onscreen and on the website, Andromeda has plent of androids and avatars of all shapes and sizes, from nanobots to batlebots and including humanoid ones. And there are plenty of circumstances when you want a humanoid android (repair work in dangerous areas, for example).
And the complaint about the ship's AI being emotional is just silly. Where is it written that every artificial intelligence has to be like Data?
Again, criticize our science all you want (hell, criticize everything--we're big kids, and we're interested in honest feedback) . But know what you're talking about first, or you just end up looking like a silly fanboy.
Zack Stentz
P.S. And anyone wanting to talk to me more on the subject, flame me, make fun of the show, or whatever, is welcome to e-mail me at astyanax99@yahoo.com. -
...Man, I just read my earlier post, and could I have been any less coherent?
Sorry if I'm coming across as cranky and defensive. I'll be completely uncool here and admit that I'm incredibly nervous over the impending premiere of the show and perhaps overreacting to criticisms as a result. So if I'm coming across as an asshole, I apologize.
Anyway, as for completefool's earlier point, in fact Andromeda does have a genuine rocket scientist (JPL spaceflight engineer Paul Woodmansee, actually) on staff giving us technical advice. We don't always follow it (sometimes science does give way to storytelling), but we usually do pretty well.
But feel free to ignore me on the subject-- a self-interested, hypersensitive staff writer is at least as untrustworthy as a AICN reviewer. Watch the show and draw your own conclusions.
Best to everyone,
Zack Stentz,
Andromeda staff writer -
Looks like you were the first one to point out the snafu, I merely stated that i did'nt think they blew up the ship in wrath of khan because I was'nt sure and wanted to know without renting the movie. I thought I made it obvious that I was'nt sure since I had'nt seen it in years. so Congratulations Toby you managed to be the first one to point out the snafu and insult another talk backer at the same time, way to go.
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Sorry, Ponykeg, I didn't mean to insult anyone. I think you're being a little too sensitive here. It's just when I read the piece the thing that jumped out at me most was the WoK thing. I knew we geeks were not going to let El C. get away with that and I wasn't disappointed. Re-reading the posts, I think you jumped to conclusions, but you're welcome to disagree. As for Frank. Hey, nothing in this world is perfect and people can (and will) criticize anything. Like I said in my previous post, a lot of what El Cid wrote about comes down to your personal preference for this kind of thing. People are fanatical about Star Wars and Star Trek although both of them make Sir Newton turn in his grave. Deep breaths, man, everything is going to be okay. And personally, I think it's really cool that a writer would post on this site. (Ps. Any chance of this show coming to Asia?)
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I can't believe this guy. Not only does he completely ignore El C.'s DAMN good points, he blows them off with lame excuses, AND acts like a total asshole. With people like this behind it, it must be a great show, eh? Next time, Zack, let your PR people respond if you have a problem. Getting mired in Talkback is LAME! Your android explanation is pretty lame considering what they're actually used for. This show is going to BLOW. Stop whining when people criticize it, and MAKE IT BETTER, YOU JERK.
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Now, see, I wasn't going to say anything. I wasn't even going to tease El Cosmico for telling one of the writers of the show that he would agree with El C if only he, too, had seen the show. But now you're being mean to Zack and as the self-appointed mother hen of the writing room, I can't let that go.
I've worked on a number of TV shows. Some have been pretty good and some have sucked pretty hard. I've never worked for a head writer I respected more than I do Robert Hewitt Wolfe. I've never supervised staff writers with more enthusiasm, intelligence and love of the form than Zack Stentz and Ashley Edward Miller. (I'd compliment Matt Kiene and Joe Reinkemeyer, too, but they don't cruise the 'net so screw 'em.)
Bottom line: Andromeda's a terrific show. And even if we haven't yet sufficiently deployed our medium-range weapons for one reviewer's liking, I guarantee that the majority of you will be sucked in by smart stories, fully realized characters and -- believe it or not -- real science.
Watch it yourself and tell me if you agree. 'Kay? Kay.
And be nicer to Zack. He's sensitive. -
We're supposed to take you seriously when you work on the damn show? Which sucks by the way...I've seen it too. As for "not even teasing El C." Well, he didn't have any way of knowing that a PETTY fucking writer from your show was posting, how can you tease him for that? The sad fact is, you guys can't take El Cosmico's VALID criticisms, and you should, or this show will be forgotten quickly. YOU SERIOUSLY THINK ANDROMEDA IS A TERRIFIC SHOW? You just lost ALL of your credibility right there, honey.
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Stop being defensive and actually listen. For once. Nevermind your childish behavior in talkback here, El Cosmico raised a lot of very valid points that you still haven't responded to. He's giving you guys criticism. That's what critics do. Take it or leave it, but from the sound of things (yes, I have read your website's explanations) you need to take it. It's not just about the medium range weapons. DON'T GLOSS OVER the criticisms. ANSWER THEM! Rise to the challenge. Be willing to accept that you MIGHT BE WRONG. Open those ears of yours. Zack and now Ethlie have taken cute little pokes at El Cosmico, that totally avoid the issues he brings up. So, I'm gonna ask you, on behalf of viewers, some of his questions again: how is being too competent a flaw? Why do your aliens look like hell, and why does the Magog spout contrived, new-agey drivel? WHY ARE WEAPONS MANUALLY TARGETED? Why doesn't the ship have on-board sensors? Why does the conn chair move? Why aren't the security codes for the nova bombs SECURE? Why are androids needed to man computers that Andromeda's AI is already hooked up to? Why does the AI not just seemingly show emotion, for better interaction, but actually ACT on it, AND show sexual impulses?
Can you explain the tow-cable situation? Exactly how does THAT fit in with your show that's based on "real science"? On that point, I suppose that a "white hole" is real science? I defy you guys to answer just ONE of these questions, you haven't answered ANY of them. Do you think sci-fi fans are dumb, that we're just going to take whatever crap you shovel at us? If you tell us this is a serious show, you need to back it up. Oh, and as for the "play nice" statement, I have to agree with the last guy. This is Talkback. We NEVER play nice. -
well, it's a relief to know that the people making television are idiots just like the rest of us. if its this easy I could probably get a show. your right on when you say they're being defensive, typical insecurity, they just argue and don't answer or listen. too bad, another waste of tons of cash and airtime.
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Oct 04, 2000 7:39:30 AM CDT
As the lone non-Andromeda staffer currently posting on AICN...
by village people
...and not associated with the series in any way but having now seen the first two episodes, I have to say: what "valid points" of El Cosmico's? He had about one half of one in there, somewhere. The foul-mouthed fanboys here are quick to leap to his defense against the grown-ups because they perceive him as One Of Them. They demand that he and they be treated with some respect and reverence that nothing in their posts earns.
To the writers: guys, go make your show. It's terrific, and real people with real lives, and often, real criticisms about the show's shortcomings, are gonna give it a fair chance. Mudwrestling with the likes of El Cosmico and fannish loons like the one who signs himself "Captain BenSisko" simply reinforces their non-existant self-images and lets them go on mistakenly believing that this site, and their carping, has relevance. -
from what I've been able to cull from other reviews, El Cosmico DOES have good points, whether you can comprehend them or not, Village People, and as for fanboys...who do you think watches sci-fi? Besides that, I doubt the "grown-ups" you describe will put up with the sloppiness of this show. El C ISN'T mudwrestling, read the damn talkbacks! It's the Andromeda people doing THAT. So go ahead, pal, defend your precious show with ad hominem attacks. As for this site having relevance...okay, so why are YOU here?
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Mainly for the delight of watching people who style themselves as "jimmycrackhead" and such mudwrestle and defend "fanboys" as an elite demographic target group. :-)
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I'm no "fanboy", but even I can see how dumb this show is going to be, and by the way...if you think "fanboys" aren't a significant demographic, WHO DO YOU THINK BUYS ALL THAT SHITTY SCI-FI MERCHANDISE? Who goes to the conventions? WHO WATCHES THE STUPID SHOWS? Fanboys. No one else. Man, you sure like the word "mudwrestle". Only mud I've seen around here is from the Andromeda folks, though.
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I usually don't post to this particular forum, but I've made this exception because it's painful to see the Andromeda writers shooting themselves in the foot as badly as this.
Based on what I've seen here and on the Slipstream, the writers should get the hell off the internet NOW before they atagonize anymore people and dig themselves deeper into a hole. If you're not really interested in hearing what people have to say about the show - and all indications are that you're not - then what are you doing here, besides just pissing off people who might otherwise be well disposed to the show?
When I first heard about Andromeda, I was well disposed towards it. After experiencing Zack and Ashley's unprofessional, childish and condescending outbursts, I have to admit that part of me is now hoping it will crash and burn.
You people are only hurting yourselves, you know. If you're not honestly intersted in feedback, then I must assume you're here to do freelance publicity for the show. But your efforts at PR are appallingly amateurish, as should be evident by all the ire you've raised.
My advice to you is to get the hell off the Internet now and hire some PR pros to handle viewer questions. I'm sure there are many people who are trained to promote things online and who understand the mentality of the Internet.
One thing you seem to be overlooking is that none of you are "civilians" on the Internet anymore. You represent a Corporation, you have a monetary interest in what goes on here, and as such you can expect to be treated with suspicion and disdain, just like any Internet marketer would.
I'm sorry if you don't like that situation, but I am simply pointing out a reality of Internet culture. There are ways of promoting your show online that would not generate this level of hostility. You should hire professionals who know about these things.
I gotta wonder where your marketing and PR people are? Do you have any? You sure as hell need some! If I were your marketing person, I'd be having a god damned coronary right now, looking at this disasterous situation.
PLEASE stop this before it gets worse. Imagine how much damage even a dozen pissed-off fanboys could do to Andromeda, ping ponging all over the place and telling everyone how much it sucks. And they'll do it, too. There are much better ways to handle this.
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What's up with all this serious scientific analysis of a syndicated tv show? "The phasers are not in sync with the laws of physics", "The ship would be torn apart in a real black hole". It's just a show meant to entertain people. Some of you are acting like those nerds who wear Star Trek uniforms and think it's cool.
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because we don't want a constant stream of lazily written, half-baked bullshit we're nerds? fine. I can live with that title. Just like geek, I'll wear it as a badge of pride.
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It's very rare these days to see shows that are really great in the first three episodes, I thought B5 sucked in the first two seasons. At least give it a while to flesh out.
As far as name calling goes (nerd/geek etc) that is such a unoriginal attack, you've lost the argument as far as I'm concearned. Without the critism, the show will never get better. And at the end of the day, no-ones forcing us to watch this show, if it sucks, we can take our demographic, and more importantly our money, elsewhere. -
... and it was fun, overall. Flawed, yes. As for the science of it....shit, I'm not a scientist, and neither is El Cosmico. Some of his complaints are dead-on accurate, some are just whiny and irrelevant. There are some design flaws in the starship, but guess what? There are design flaws in real life technology too! Sheesh, lighten up, people. Oh, And if the writers of the show are still reading, please, for the love of Zeus, get someone to do better alien designs. That seemed to be the biggest weakness of the episode i saw. And for the record, despite what El C. says, your show is better than Lexx... then again, so is every other show on television.
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Man, reading Zack's posts was like watching a little kid running across a frozen lake. And the whole time you're thinking, crap, it's gonna crack. And then it does. The kid goes down. And then mom rushes in and she falls in too.
Tragic.
El C, Temis et al: Zack has been scolded for being very bad. Most especially, Zack has been scolded for posting under a psuedonym. Very, very bad. Not allowed. Against company policy.
Both Zack and Ethlie are currently writing a thousand times on the dry erase board, "I will not engage in flame wars. I will not engage in flame wars."
Obviously, we are completely biased about our show and are not good sources of unbiased opinions.
We apologize and return you to your regularly scheduled TalkBack without further commercial interuption. -
Oct 06, 2000 7:32:20 AM CDT
How much damage a dozen pissed-off fanboys could do...
by deathbytalkback
We've maxed out on net nerd hubris here. Go ahead, einsteinmuff, wear your geekdom as "a badge of honor". While you're at it, declare swirlies an Olympic event and you'll all be superstars.
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do you even know what site you're on? Are you not aware that the guy who runs this site is referred to as the "head geek"? What are you, a studio plant? Methinks so. Hubris? I'm gonna repeat what's already been said, go check out all of the stupid merchandise on their site, who do you think, out of all the folk on EARTH, are the only folks who will actually buy this stuff? GEEKS. FANBOYS. This show is just DUMB, it needs to GET BETTER.
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Oh boy. I just happened on this tonight and have already warned some die hard sci fi friends to steer clear. A friend walked in while i had it on and even asked what was up with the Battlestar Galactica outfits? The weapon that expanded into a staff/pike..anyone take a guess where that came from?
I know someone posted that it should be given time. And stated about B5 being slow for its first season or two. At least with B5 you could see that the storyline was present and had an intent even from the get go. This show seemed fuzzy and slow and a ripoff of several other sci fi shows and concepts in general.
But i wont go into that too much since there is hardly an original concept out there. Not sure hollywood would recognize one if it was handed over on a silver platter.
I'll stick with B5 and Farscape until something can come along that will actually get near that level programming. I actually wish Gene was still with us..shame in this case that he isnt. -
So it looks like Robert Wolfe is pretty cool, but the underlings... Ye gods...
I watched the pilot. It has the scientific validity of Space Academy and the dramatic tension of TekWar. To be fair, I actually enjoyed the first 30 minutes or so, but once we were face to face with the big bad wolf and arseface the alien, things went down fast.
No genetically perfect ultimate soldier right in his or her head would go around with long wavy hair. To be fair, Buffy violates this rule all the time in her little world, but we're going for realism here, right?
The kids can play with the Nova Bombs? That's the dumbest thing I've heard since they gave the Cobalt bomb to Victor Buono and made him dress all in white.
What's with pin the tail on the purple chick? Did Star Trek use up the galaxy's supply of green chicks or something? Is she perhaps a noble descendant of a lost colony founded by Prince?
You got Robert Jastrow as your technical advisor and he didn't tell you guys how that stunt with the tow cables and the black hole was ludicrous? Next you'll tell me you've hired Naren Shankar to tell you the differences between proteins and nucleic acids.
Manually targeted weapons? Man, jet fighters don't even do that today! It sure looked cool in Star Wars though so it must look good here too, right?
Oh yeah, as a matter of fact, I AM a rocket scientist, next question? Who told you guys how to make white holes, anyway? Did you start by reasoning that since blackheads sometimes become whiteheads after you squeeze them too much, then blowing up a black hole should create a white hole or something?
But I'll defend a couple points to be fair. I have no problem with a horny AI. I figure by the time such entities exist, they'll have rights too. And as long as there's VR, there's no problem with her consummating her urges.
The Ship Who Sang, anyone?
Still, if her silicon libido is what makes her need robots to physically man ship's stations, then I'd fire her and hire HAL-9000, great pair of knockers notwithstanding.
Really though, I liked the first 30 minutes of the pilot. It was downright ballsy to introduce an entire crew and then kill every one of them off. So next I looked at future episodes.
SPOILER ALERT
In episode 106, our gallant crew travels into the past just days before the events of episode 101. Can we say been there, done that? Sounds like the writers here have spent too much time flaming the viewers and not enough time coming up with good story ideas.
UNSOLICITED STORY SUBMISSION TIME!!!
OK, so the Andromeda crashes on a deserted world. Steve Austin I mean Jamie Summers I mean Dylan Hunt has to hunt down the saboteur who caused the accident before time runs out. In the climactic moment, Dylan cuts open his bionic arm to cauterize Oscar Goldman's bullet wound. Later, when he's back amongst his crew, he tells them all he cut himself shaving to protect the secret of his bionic implants.
Hey, if you're going to rip other people's plots, you might as well use a tried and true example.
I'll keep watching through episode 106. Maybe things will get better. Kevin Sorbo was fun in a subdued Gary Cole kind of way. Maybe pigs will fly too!
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this show sux more than the star wars christmas special
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All space sci fi shows have slow starts. So far, I think Andromeda has the best start. ST: TNG didn't get interesting until the 3rd season, DS9 got interesting the end of the 4th season, and Voyager didn't get interesting until after 7 of 9 joined when they hired Brannon Braga and Babylon 5 sucked until the Shadow War started. So far, every episode of Andromeda has been better than the episode before it and I predict that this show will totally rock by the the second season if not later in this one.
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Herc, I don't know where to start. I wish you lived here in Charlotte so I could have someone close by who was a scientifically literate science fiction fan. The fools here who think that anything with Roddenberry's name on it must be quality SF... The man wrote westerns and police drama.
It's funny. Before B5, I used to think that it wasn't possible to have quality SF on TV. Just as one of the previous posters said, the first few episodes of B5 were mediocre at best. I personally think that the good stuff started when Sheridan came on board.
Andromeda's producers consulted dozens of scientists and engineers to get the science right? They must have been Christian Scientists (religious leaders, not scientists who were also Christians) and social engineers, because none of them evidently know a damned thing about science, space, astronautical engineering, electromagnetic radiation, stellar phenomenae, or the laws of physics. It's just "Hercules In Space" -- and I'm not saying that because Sorbo is in it. The show feels like Hercules or Xena. The stories are only mock serious. The dialogue is campy. There's so much more emphasis on style than substance. They use psuedo-scientific terminology instead of the sci-fantasy terminology of Trek, but, like Trek, the writers don't know what the numbers mean. The writers said that the ship had a crew of 4000. Even with a godlike AI, the minimum skeleton crew should still be several hundred at least. As you pointed out, all the weapons are kenetic, yet no one mentions reloading one. We have yet to see any sort of power plant or engine room. What's pushing this beastie? If the ordinance is all kinetic (rockets, mass drivers, etc.) it seems to me that the engines should be big, visible, and using some sort of reaction mass. Any sort of gravitational engine would be useless in interplanetary space without nearby masses to push against or pull on. What's the fuel? They mention other ships being light-seconds away, yet there is no communications delay -- and they don't have FTL communications.
Well, I could go on for days, but the bed is calling...
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