Sept. 28, 2000, 3:16 a.m. CST
Anyone got any idea who did these designs? From the broken glass in the car windscreens I'd say it looks kinda like Geoff Darrow (Hard Boiled, with Frank Miller). But I could be wrong. Pretty damn cool though...
Sept. 28, 2000, 3:16 a.m. CST
Wow. Now that is definitely some cool ass shit. I can't wait for Matrix 2. I'm a little bit cautious though.....Keanu was great in Matrix one because the amount he had to actually "act" was summed up in his best line in the movie with "Whoa." Let's face it, it wasn't exactly challenging. Hopefully he'll be able to stick with that "whoa" character even now that he's The One.
Sept. 28, 2000, 3:31 a.m. CST
by Ethan Hunt
is Hugo Weaving confirmed for this flick? I hope so. He's the best bad guy since Haaans Gruber, and even though he kinda got killed in the first Matrix movie I can accept some degree of "creative" script writing in order to bring that bad boy back. Once the first screen shots become available, this film will become the most anticipated since Episode 1. Think I'll go watch The Matrix now, or listen to the soundtrack or in reverse order. or simultaniously.
Sept. 28, 2000, 4 a.m. CST
OK...I'm sure there'll be a lot of negativity towards this statement, but here goes: "The Matrix" wasn't that good. The action was pretty well done, I'll admit, but there wasn't nearly enough of it. A few scenes, and to get there, we have to sit through SO MUCH LONG, BORING CRAP. The movie was just talk, talk, talk. Characters ruminating about stupid shit that wasn't really well thought out anyway. I mean, the whole Oracle storyline. This makes NO SENSE. Why is the Oracle in the Matrix. Why hasn't she freed herself yet. Why is she a knowledgable black woman with a large family? You know why? Because of the movie rule that the wise, all-knowing seer has to be an old-fashioned black person. Think "Green Mile," "The Shining," "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil." All of these films used the "black-person-as-all-knowing" angle, and it was just painfully obvious in the "Matrix." Pile on top of that the dippy performances (with Fishburne sounding like he was reading from a cue card half the time), the goofy, cliche symbolism (blue pills, red pills...what nonsense) and the obnoxious attempts to be cool (he's a hacker named Neo...the techno soundtrack) and you get a real shitkicker in my opinion. Oh, and "Matrix" fans, if you're still reading, I will give you the villian. Hugo rocked, but he deserved a better script (with some better dialogue that the hackneyed old "mankind is a disease"...what a waste) And, like that, I'm gone...
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:02 a.m. CST
I don't remember asking you a goddamn thing. --jules winfield
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:07 a.m. CST
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:08 a.m. CST
Yes, that is without a doubt the work of Geof Darrow. If you take another look at Hard Boiled or the equally great The Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot, I think you will see that it is his style to a t. That is not a style that is easily duplicated. Darrow was also one of the primary conceptual designers and storyboarders for the first film. When are they going to put out that coffee table book with all of the storyboards?
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:17 a.m. CST
by Ethan Hunt
Boring Crap?? What the hell?? The action was good but you didn't like to so called boring bits?? The boring bits often double as what the rest of us call "PLOT" That's the stuff they use to explain the background and characters. I saw the Matrix several times and was never bored. Never. The action was great, in fact it rocked. But the story went deeper than I had expected, which was a pleasant surprise. And what ever happened to: in my opinion?? Most people liked this film and you, well, happen to belong to the minority, so go complain somewhere else. Matrix haters......hmmm...oh yeah: Like Adam Sandler! Promised to flame, and this is just about the worst insult I can think of right now.
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:45 a.m. CST
but it's of course way too early to give a comment about the whole movie. Does anyone know when it will be out??
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:54 a.m. CST
by Andy Travis
"Here Geof, do these storyboards in your usual high-definition, draw every little cigarette butt and bullet-casing style, and, oh, we need four-hundred of them in a week."
Sept. 28, 2000, 5:06 a.m. CST
...the Matrix isn't nearly as good as it should be. The kung fu does at times drag its feet. I know that they wanted to use long shots to show you that it was the actors fighting and not stunt men, but the net effect that is that it looks so rehearsed. You almost hear them counting their beats...."kick, 1, 2, 3, 4, duck, 1, 2, block, 1, punch". I'll admit that when they start with the insane wire work and the main gun/helicopter action, it fuckin' rocks, but the hand to hand stuff is not fast enough. It seems like they shied away from speeding it up that little bit extra. Lets see some Jackie Chan style madness next time please.
Sept. 28, 2000, 5:12 a.m. CST
by Brian DePalma
A couple of fucking geeks masturbate onto celluliod and you all love it. Don't any of you like mature sci-fi like say Mission 2 Mars?
Sept. 28, 2000, 5:38 a.m. CST
That fuck. For the record I thought Matrix was so good it made me weep tears of joy.
Sept. 28, 2000, 6:21 a.m. CST
by Super Pimp
The first two boards are definetly 100% pure uncut Geof Darrow. I've stared at my Hard Boiled and Big Guy comics enough hours to know. This is looking GOOOOOOOOOD!
Sept. 28, 2000, 6:22 a.m. CST
by Hyper Spazz
If you've read the comic then you know it's full of people getting their heads punched off in enviroments full of dead bodies and stuff blowing up. Grant Morrison was pissed cause he said The Matrix ripped off his comic the Invisibles, I wonder how Warren Ellis will feel about upping the scales to a live action version of his Godlike comic? I for one can't wait to see the slaughter.
Sept. 28, 2000, 7:22 a.m. CST
Wrong place to ask this question I know but what happened to UK release of Pitch Black? We got the reviews but not the movie.
Sept. 28, 2000, 7:49 a.m. CST
10th November(according to Blackstar)
Sept. 28, 2000, 7:50 a.m. CST
by B A Fett
I think I just jizzed in my pants.
Sept. 28, 2000, 8:15 a.m. CST
I am still firmly of the opinion that this fanatical devotion to The Matrix is a product of TPM bashing. I think people either disliked -- or WANTED to dislike -- TPM so much that in turn they elevated Matrix to this lofty height more to have something to rub in Lucas's face than out of any genuine love for the movie. I think that if Matrix had come out a year earlier, it would have done moderately well, but not been the blockbuster that it was. Being one of that seemingly rare few who actually ENJOYED TPM, that whole summer of '99 it seemed like the in thing to bash TPM and heap praise upon Matrix, and often for the exact same thing. I'd read reviews saying the plot of TPM made no sense, that it ruined the movie, but the same reviewer would say the plot of Matrix was incomprehensible but that it didn't matter, it looked good. Huh? Same observation, a great crime for Lucas, and afterthought for Matrix.
Sept. 28, 2000, 8:50 a.m. CST
Its this simple its not a matter of elevating one or another as far as TPM and Matrix goes. I personally liked TPM and thought it was well put together but in actuality the Matrix had a far superior plot. TPM was a good solid story with kick ass action and nice visuals. Because it is Lucas or had a high budget for me changes nothing when I watch the film. Titanic and Waterworlds budget NEVER factored in for me when I watched the actual films. From credits roll, to credits end it is JUST A FILM. And it was ok, sorry for those of you that overanalyze Lucas, it is just a film in the end and a fun one at that. Now as far as the Matrix, after a year that brought us "blockbusters" like Supernova and M2M and basically the WORST year in "big" films ever the previous two films seem like genius. The Matrix more so and I'll tell you why. It is just a really solid WELL THOUGHT OUT film. They didn't shit out a script in 3 months every piece of dialog and visual was carefully planned and executed. TPM did this but the plot had FAR less to say. Sorry the fact that we are all blind slaves to technology is much more relevant than a kiddie romp. What Keyser claims is stupid or obvious symbolism was really cool because no other action film dares to even attempt it. From the white rabbit to the reflections in Neos glasses to the carefully designed dialog of EVERY character in every scene the Matrix was a carefully designed web. Not everyone likes everything and going into it I had biases AGAINST the Matrix but its "three act hero journey" plot won me over through the massive inovation (anyone ever see Bound?) it is simply carefully crafted and beautifully directed and if you don't see that you are blind or sadly biased and missing out for the sake of being a grump and "rebel" Any filmaker worth his salt respects what they did and the fatc they are taking YEARS and not one year to do the sequels implies to me that they have the same careful resolve to a good film. I know someone who has read part of an earlier draft and confirmed my belief that they would carefully expand the mythos and add to the first film as carefully as they crafted their universe. Lastly the choreographer and the way they worked the stunts into the plot was pure genius. From the pumped up Rockyesque feeling of the Fishburne fight to the kick ass Hugo Weaving dialog I am sorry Keyser but that is just GOOD dialog and any McQuarrie Usual Suspects fan would recognize that if they weren't stubborn. the thing that sold the film for me was the fact that Hugo simply wanted out...he was more than a "evil" bad guy he had PERSONAL motivation. It was hilarious how he hated the Matrix. Lastly for your Oracle question FIRST how do you know she wasn't FREE just like Morpheus and Neo one can wander the Matrix forever probably if they don't raise the eyre of an Agent by tapping phone lines like Trinity in the beginning or get set up by their own like Cypher did or attack them like Neo did thats how they were found not a omnipotence over the Matrix cause if that were the case no one could even enter. they created something they can't fully control like we did. Lastly she was staying int he Matrix to teach those kdis REMEMBER??? They were "potentials" like Neo and even if they weren't the "one" they would be the next supersoldiers and be even better than Trinity and Morpheus. That is a worthy casue to stay in the Matrix no? Jedi training those kids? That was her purpose, plus there was obviously more to her than meets the eye or how would she know what Neo said to Morpheus about fate?
Sept. 28, 2000, 9:01 a.m. CST
First of all I tend to agree with the rest of you that think Geoff Darrow ( Rusty the Robot & Hard Boiled) is the artist for the 1st couple of pictures. The story boards confirm ( to me at least) that the matrix sequels will "up the ante" on the surreal super powers. I would expect the final product to be derivative of the Alan Moore/John Totleben Miracle Man comics....THIS IS A GOOD THING! This comic book style violence translates so well to the screen (i.e. Woo or some of the other Classic HK action genre flicks) The W Bros seem to realize the "Reality of the Matrix" has rules that can " bent or broken" (to paraphrase Morpheus).This leads to the next evolution from Kung Fu Fighting/Chow Yun Fat style violence to full blown super hero concepts....Flight, Super Speed, Stength and various other Marvel/ DC comic archetypes!I hope they touch on the effects that being a damn near omnipotent fighting force in one reality has on the psyche of the characters in the real world that are at best normal physically. Think about the addiction of being able to fly and break down walls. This parallels the moral degradation and slow slide into depravity that Kid Miracleman experiences in the aforementioned Moore epic. Give it some thought...it would really give legs to the matrix in terms of plot twist and varying villian focus.....
Sept. 28, 2000, 9:08 a.m. CST
Where the hell is Donnie Yen in the Matrix anyway? They should get him in to fight Jet!!!
Sept. 28, 2000, 9:27 a.m. CST
by Fitzy Funk
A great (or even very good) movie can stand on its own two legs both aurally and visually. I'll concede the visuals to the Matrix..they're interesting. Dark City did the dark, apocalyptic slummy look better for the 90s (Blade Runner being the daddy, and Metropolis being the grand-daddy), but I have no problem admitting the Wachowski's are essentially good filmmakers (Bound *was* great, by the way..). But the true test for you Matrix fans...how about just listening to the movie's soundtrack without its visuals? After doing that, I defy you to come back to me and tell me how much the movie still *rocks*. The script (meaning both the plot and dialogue) are atrocious. Absolutely atrocious.
Sept. 28, 2000, 9:35 a.m. CST
I never knew Da Pope was so fucking funny. I need to take a trip to the Vatican next summer...BTW, Matrix shure as hell rocks the casbah. So does Barrow. TPM was well below mediocre compared to the big M. Screw you naysayers, Rex Mundi will get you in the end.... NUXX OUT......
Sept. 28, 2000, 10:15 a.m. CST
Sept. 28, 2000, 10:37 a.m. CST
The Matrix came out only a few short months before Episode 1. Everyone loved The Matrix but was expecting Episode 1 to kick ultimate ass. Then what happened? It didn't. It resoundingly failed. Which confirmed in everyone's mind that, well, Star Wars will not be the "Star Wars" of my generation, but rather The Matrix will be. This, for those of you out there who are in their teens and twenties and can barely remember the original Star Wars Trilogy in theatres, this is our definitive revolutionary-sci-fi, sci-philosophical trilogy. This is the new and unheard-about movie that came into theatres with a big bang and blew everyone's mind with gale-force winds. This is the new sci-fi religion. George Lucas was a sci-fi god once, but now he's essentially out of touch. And that has made all the difference.
Sept. 28, 2000, 10:38 a.m. CST
Does that look like an agent he's punching?
Sept. 28, 2000, 10:49 a.m. CST
I've heard news saying they wanted to get Jet Li this time around for the sequels to The Matrix. I even heard they just made Romeo Must Die to get you more familiar with him before he stared with Keanu Reaves. But I didn't hear the confirmation of him being in the sequels. I mean, not to disappoint anyone. But all I remember hearing is he already has 2 projects on the way - a new Luc Besson film and The Green Hornet. Not to mention that, like Jackie Chan, Jet is probubly doing things back in Asia as well. I just wanted to know if he really was confirmed for the sequels. If he is it'll be a damn good movie. And for those who want to see Jet without wires, I'd suggest Fist of Legend, which dosen't use any until the final fight but they're still kept at a minimum. However Once Upon A Time In China is by far his best and it is so well directed that you can hardly tell he's using wires. But The Matrix is right up his alley and I'd love to see him fight Neo or Morpheus. =)
Sept. 28, 2000, 10:56 a.m. CST
Harry, why do you always act like the dumbest kid on the playground who has to say he hung out at so-and-so's house over the weekend to get some attention? Tarantino's home theatre?? Christ, stick to the news, cowboy. You don't see Sam Donaldson saying "this weekend, while having dinner with the Reagan family, I overheard someone..." Your credibility is constantly in danger of toppling.
Sept. 28, 2000, 10:56 a.m. CST
Harry, why do you always act like the dumbest kid on the playground who has to say he hung out at so-and-so's house over the weekend to get some attention? Tarantino's home theatre?? Christ, stick to the news, cowboy. You don't see Sam Donaldson saying "this weekend, while having dinner with the Reagan family, I overheard someone..." Your credibility is constantly in danger of toppling.
Sept. 28, 2000, 10:57 a.m. CST
The man is absolutely right, avidfan is. And what the hell do you mean, no archetypes in The Matrix? The entire story runs parallel to religious myth! The humans were given a world to live in like Eden, but it was lost, then they were given a world of suffering and torment, and there was a savior who died and was resurrected, and then there was a second coming of the savior, a New-Christ as it might be, who also died and was resurrected, and like the guy said, if the war was over tomorrow, Zion is where the celebration would be, or whatever the exact words he says are. And for Christ's sake, the woman's name is Trinity. And what, The Matrix referring to archetypes and mythology is a rip-off, but Star Wars doing it is "epic?" The Matrix applies this entire archetypical story structure and still runs the course of the journey of the hero in three-act structure, with the call to action and the mentor character and the woman in whose presence he cannot be harmed. By your rationale, Star Wars has ripped off just as much, if not more - mythological and legendary archetypes are the first thing it's "ripped off," not to mention The Hidden Fortress, by Kurosawa. Coffee, you're just trying to be cool by going against the grain.
Sept. 28, 2000, 11:05 a.m. CST
1. Fight Club was the First movie that REALLY USES a Virtual Cam. 2. THE W Bs want to me to jump from my seat because they show us a digital enhanced punche in the face....sorry if you watch FC you will learn what digital Face destrucion is al about :) Fight Club really made me go...WOW did they really do/show this :)
Sept. 28, 2000, 11:06 a.m. CST
by gigolo aunt
Yes, maybe the story for the Matrix was a bit better than E1.That is because Lucas had ALREADY used the story-it was called Star Wars: A New Hope.You even say it yourself with the whole"black lady training Jedi's" thing.Now don't get me wrong I'm not bashing the Matrix,but since I saw Dark City way before tha, I just wasn't as impressed as a lot of people.And I don't care who you are, you have to admit that the aliens at the end were just stupid looking.Was that a Hoover shop vac, or did the carwash explode!
Sept. 28, 2000, 11:15 a.m. CST
"Right now... we the geek children of THE MATRIX worship at its dvd altar on a regular basis... " That was going too far.
Sept. 28, 2000, 11:18 a.m. CST
Star Wars is not science fiction. Any science fiction fan will tell you that. Star Wars is a kids movie. It alway has been and always will be. That was George Lucas' intention. It's Flash Gordon with better special effects. In all honesty it really shouldn't be compared to the matrix. The matrix, on the other hand is a science fiction movie. It is not a good science fiction movie because, while starting off with a fairly interesting ( yet hardly original ) PhillipK.Dick-esque concept, all potential for thoughtful/insightful expositon was soon abandoned in a trade off for a movie about Keanu Reeves doing Kung-fu. Is jet Li in the next movie? wow, now we will have the opportunity to see more of the same. The matrix did have some of the best visuals of the past few years. I don't know if that was the Wachowski's doing or not. I think that they can make a really cool movie if they lose the americana. Also, these storyboards are by Geoff Darrow. I believe both he and Steve Scroce are credited in the first movie. Fish, plankton, sea greens, and protien from the sea.
Sept. 28, 2000, 11:20 a.m. CST
I can't wait till this movie comes out. The first one was great, and from everything I read the sequals are going to be better. To those asking about Jet Li, I still haven't heard anything official about him being in the sequals. To those who hated the matrix, you are in the minorty. To those bashing Keanu, need to get lives.
Sept. 28, 2000, 11:27 a.m. CST
by Darth Grego
I haven't seen the first one yet. Does that make me a bad person? BTW: Sanchez: amen, brother, Lucas is WAY out of touch. 25 years ago he set out to make the movie HE wanted and it was obviously what EVERYONE ELSE wanted to see too. He makes TPM exactly as HE wants to again but this time everyone (with half a wit about them) hates it for the piece of shit it was. I guess two decades of being a reclusive billionaire will put you out of touch with the public, huh?
Sept. 28, 2000, 12:06 p.m. CST
which movie were you referring to? Just lost me a bit. I loved Dark City though but Existenz also rocked (13th floor sucked) so I don't mind the similiar Philip K dick concept being used over as long as it is done good. QTarantino talked a little about talkbacks on a previous post and he said it is funny how some people will try to rip down on something to push another, Lucas and Wachowskis and Matrix -TPM argument fits this pretty well. Personally I have nothing invested in either of them...if people love them or hate them or their films it doesn't affect me. I won't automatically hate episode 2 because of the Matrix the only one I hurt then is myself because I could miss out on an awesome fun movie. If it makes money or not I don't make money, if it is considered a success I don't get accolades the fat guy with two chins does, all I have invested is a few hours. Thats not to say some films don't blow and I am not prejudiced to certain companies, directors or whatever but in the end the only one you hurt is yourself by stubbornly robbing yourself of fun to "take a stand". Like I said I liked both, no doubt the old woman makin' Jedi's owes something to TPM but both owe to the Hero Journey and religons etc etc. I don't mind if ideas are borrowed just if they're done well. And if you want to verify if the Wachowskis had anything to do with the visuals check out Bound and maybe you'll see where they are comin from. Also did you hear Lucas is going to "rip" the Wachowskis with a Matrix like fight scene between Jango and Obi Wan in Ep 2 in the rain? Will Matrix haters turn on Lucas is he cops from them and they themselves are "theives"? Temuira RULES and I personally get psyched by news of that.
Sept. 28, 2000, 12:13 p.m. CST
Guys, The First Matrix was great from a techinical standpoint. The plot was NOT original, acting didn't matter in a movie like this (not that it was bad.) Keannu lines were minimal grealty helping things. But just go into the sequel expecting to see a movie, not the next GREAT FILM! Thats what happened when everyone and the cousin's spouse went trouncing down to the movie theatres to watch EP1 looking to find the meaning of life, peace for their souls etc. What they got was about half of a movie. Half akin to the origins of Lucas's storytelling ability and the other half crammed with crap targeted straight to kids. It had its moments (they were just usually destroyed a few seconds later.) Now again the 1'st Matrix was good, just not what all you people are making it out to be, it was just better than you expected and now those expectations have risen for the next movie. Oh and for the guys saying that Star Wars movies are children's movies. Not entirely true. Lucas Produced two fantastic movies that had an edge to them with a real sense of adventure. It wasn't until the third film that the whole Children's aspect really came rearing its ugly head, as well as the peices of crap he decided to add to the special edition of the movies. Only Empire's added stuff was cool.
Sept. 28, 2000, 12:44 p.m. CST
by gigolo aunt
"but in the end the only one you hurt is yourself by stubbornly robbing yourself of fun to "take a stand". I'm not taking any stand.I do think that Matrix was better than E1, but it's not A New Hope.All I was saying is that the idea wasn't that original.I enjoyed Matrix the same way I enjoyed ID4.A visually good action film with a "standard"plot.I actually think that this is a fairly good comparison as neither Keanu nor Will Smith seem capable of playing characters other than Keanu and Will Smith.And I was talking about the aliens at the end of Matrix, I mean seriously it looks like something out of "beyond the minds eye" and is not added to the environment very well.
Sept. 28, 2000, 12:45 p.m. CST
Is it just me or did anyone else notice how completely crappy Jet Li was in Romeo Must Die.. or was that just that Aliyah smudging the picture? Thing is, The Matrix rocked. Romeo Must Die, however, was the major most f*cking disappointment of the year!
Sept. 28, 2000, 12:49 p.m. CST
by Mephisto Ghandi
To the people that are complaining about people elevating The Matrix in spite of TPM, rest assured that the same fanboys that were in line to get their Jar-Jar on were the same ones in line to go get their Cypher on. More to the point, I think that it's a matter of transferrence. Despite the eccentricities of being George (believe me, if I had a legion of people between the ages of 12 and 34 doing every thing they could to uncover and expose my projects and exploit MY intellectual property, I'd be pretty damned eccentric too) he's always gonna be revered as the Godfather of the modern Sci-Fi movie, which The Matrix just so happens to be. I think everyone is just so hyped up trying to find "The New Star Wars" that they're flocking to it left and right. They're looking for that made-new-technology-in-my-basement-so-this-movie-will-kick-your-ass spirit that made Episode 4 so damn great. They're looking for the end all/be all of evil prick badguys. Vader had the title before because he would KILL you if you screwed up. Agent Smith has the title now because no one could kill him, until The One showed up. More over, Star Wars fans in general saw evil in a more black/white way than it's seen these days. Back when Episode 4 was king, and hell, even up to TPM, the bad guys were VERY easy to spot. They were the ones trying to kill you. The Matrix reflects the way things really are nowadays. The little Korean lady with the bag of groceries? She could kill you. The old lady cutting potatoes? She has the potential to gut you. Star Wars reflects the old school, and Matrix quite honestly reflects the new school. Everyone's gonna love both, because they're both equally cool in their own way. I doubt we'll see Neo get it on with Darth Vader or Darth Maul anytime soon, and I doubt we'd see Agent Smith making negoitations with Han Solo over steak at Mos Eisley. Respect both institutions for what they are, and not they can't be.
Sept. 28, 2000, 12:52 p.m. CST
Yes it is Geoff Darrow doing the storyboard/concept art. He of Big Guy and Rusty and Hard Boiled lore. God of hyper detail. Speaking of Hard Boiled (the comic..not the John Woo one) I see it being the next project for the Bros after the Matrix... Kevin Spacey as Nixon.. Chaos abounding. I'm drooling now... no wait...that's just mountian dew.
Sept. 28, 2000, 1:02 p.m. CST
Sounds really cool. I hope they don't forget their comic roots, I actually thought comics deserved some kind of dedication or something or someone that influenced them, anime'- I dunno, I'd just like the movie going public to know where this coolass stuff came from? Matrix has alot of really awesome scenes. Hopefully, it will be as comprehensible and twice as cool. Of course, this film will probably rock and we are all going to see it. I really hate the fact my friend told me about the Matrix and I didn't want to go see it 'cause I didn't believe it was cool, they should re-release it in theaters-it was cool there right? Are 2 and 3 coming out at the same time still? When are they going to be released?
Sept. 28, 2000, 1:02 p.m. CST
actually only the first sentence was geared towards you the other stuff was a reflection on the general Matrix sucks guys. The guys that refuse to acknowledge that any good film making was done not you. The things at the end of the Matrix were robots I think not Aliens so for a second I was confused as aliens were the bad guys in Dark City. The designs were weird but hey I guess they wanted them to be different than the HKs in Terminator to avoid being called a rip. Isn't it odd how a film with "Sentinels" and a guy named Cypher and in the original script cable and Mojo didn't get sued by Marvel?
Sept. 28, 2000, 1:12 p.m. CST
by gigolo aunt
I kind of thought that wasn't directed at me but wasn't quite sure.So those were robots?That's what I mean, some movies have plots so close that they all blur together in my head."Remember in Matrix, when the agents were tuning and then the bartender was really the bad guy!"As far as Marvel goes,they probably felt that since these were minor characters that it wasn't worth making a big deal about.However if Jet Li's character is named Spider-man, and they rename Neo the Hulk they may take notice.
Sept. 28, 2000, 1:20 p.m. CST
by gigolo aunt
robots or not I still think they looked cheesy!
Sept. 28, 2000, 1:21 p.m. CST
im sick and tired of people who hate the matrix anyway, so just fucking watch the movie and keep your mouth shut because it wont do any good bashing the movie which is what the talkback is all about... if you wanna bash something, bash those people who praise the shit out of Brisco County Jr.
Sept. 28, 2000, 1:28 p.m. CST
Dumbass. (just kidding)
Sept. 28, 2000, 1:40 p.m. CST
Really I did! I grew up with Star Wars! Hell my birthday is May 25th! (72 not 77. I turned 5 the day it came out) Star Wars is what fostered my interests in science and engineering, filmmaking, writing, mythology, reading, space exploration, animation and visual effects, (My current career) and even martial arts. It gave me an early lesson in the value of friendship and the fighting spirit that can change the world when conventional wisdom says it's impossible. This was all stuff that only a young, idealistic maverick named George Lucas could have brought us at a time when he knew he was right when everyone else was wrong. The thing is, retreating from the biz and rotting in a gilded cage of your own design for twenty years will make you stagnate. He's not a maverick anymore, he's a mogul. He is now the very Empire he showed us all how to fight twenty odd years ago. And instead of being right when everyone thought he was wrong, giving him that much more motivation to make the greatest thing anyone has ever seen; now he's in a position where everyone thinks he's God, including himself. TPM did not suck. It was a fine motion picture. But George can do better than fine. The Matrix was better than fine. Sure it had problems. I still cringe with revulsion when Trinity tells Neo he can't die because she's in love with him. (That's where Neo should have realized that "There Is No Spoon", not in the elevator shaft) Yes the dialogue was downright awful in parts (Star wars was guilty of this too, it was part of it's charm) - and yes, everything about it was cobbled together from spare parts, but there was an ENERGY to it - a love of all those spare parts and a desire to see them all together in one unified piece, and, for lack of a better word, a hunger - an all consuming need to show the world that these spare parts are cool and that putting them together this way IS an original recipe, even if the ingredients aren't. I think the Hunger is still there because the Brother's W have all the naysayers who can say "they got lucky once" to shut up. The Matrix II will have it's share of problems. But as long as the spark is still there, I think we have another treat coming to us. I do sincerely hope Lucas can find his spark again. I hope that all the naysaying TPM got will make him remember what it was like to be hungry - when success was not a foregone conclusion but dependent on every decision that can be made as correctly as possible. You will still make mistakes but each one should give you a deep sense of panic. You will lose hair making films of that magnitude. I think Cameron knows this and that's why no matter how successful he gets, his next thing has to always be some career-risking undertaking. (Did I hear correctly that he wants to shoot part of True Lies 2 on MIR?!?!?!) I want both The Matrix II and Star Wars II to be awesome, indelible marks on our collective psyches. But I think I have a little more hope for the punk kids than for the old fart. I hope he proves me wrong. I'd love to change my handle to a line in EPII that carries as much weight as "Luminous Beings are We. . ."
Sept. 28, 2000, 1:47 p.m. CST
Any idea why the Watchoski's (spel.?) named the characters they way they did? Just 'cause it sounds cool, maybe? I wonder if they would cave and release another movie after the trilogy-like that dick, Lucas. Do you think Trinity having the 'tri' in her name was coincidental?
Sept. 28, 2000, 2:08 p.m. CST
actually it would be awesome if there was some symbolism behind Trinitys name that ties into the three films. I don't think they will EVER do more films like that fatty Lucas but probably comics and books and TV shows and cartoons. Then in 23 years maybe another trilogy about the original one that freed Morpheus. hey maybe he isn't dead but got caught and turned evil and Neo will have to fight him? Maybe he is Neos Dad and...no they wouldn't do that... gulp. I think the reason for the xmen names is they are HUGE fans and didn't think a film would ever be made of the xmen so it would be a cool homage...
Sept. 28, 2000, 2:13 p.m. CST
To have Agent Smith be a traitor and join up with the good guys? Hugo Weaving was one of the coolest parts of the Matrix.
Sept. 28, 2000, 2:20 p.m. CST
Hey, I didn't think it was the 2nd coming of action films, but it certainly wasn't awful. I actually would've liked to see more of Morpheus & Co. than Keanu. And the character performances were great, particularly the Oracle and Agent Smith -- I felt they really made the film along with the Wachowski's direction. While I don't think Keanu is a particularly good actor, I also think that Neo is a terribly boring character. But overall a nice balance of a fairly simple story with special effects.
Sept. 28, 2000, 3:03 p.m. CST
I had to comment on Keyers comments that there was too much talking. Puhleeze. You cant get much more terrific than this. Go watch Rambo again.Alot more action but...with No plot. I cant wait for the next Matrix movie.
Sept. 28, 2000, 3:14 p.m. CST
The one thing that seperates TPM and the Matrix is the dialogue. The special effects are both kick ass on both movies and the plots are not that bad either. However, the dialogue in the Matrix made it a thousand times more enjoyable to watch. I've said it before and I'll say it again: George Lucas should be bitched slapped for lines like "I'll try spinning that's a good trick." It's so FUCKING aggravating. Oh well. Go Matrix 2. Here's hoping episode 2 is better than the one before it. I don't know why I bother comparing the two films anyway Peter Jackson will kick both their asses. *SIGH*
Sept. 28, 2000, 3:19 p.m. CST
by Rowena DeVandal
The names in the Matrix (of the 3 main charcters: Morpheus, Neo and Trinity) all have symbolism attached to them. Morpheus was the Greek god of dreams, Neo is Latin for "new" and also an anagram of "one" and Trinity refers to the Holy Trinity (father, son, holy spirit). As you can see, the Wachowski's touched on many different things here and it wasn't necessarily because of any "comic book" need to have cool names. All these people started out as hackers and we all know that most people who style themselves as such tend to give themselves interesting names. So yes, in this case, there is much in a name.
Sept. 28, 2000, 3:32 p.m. CST
Jesus Tapdancing Christ, people THEY'RE JUST MOVIES. I mean I liked the Matrix and hated TPM, but SO WHAT?? That doesn't mean I'm Satan. I can't stand this "YOU SUCK IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS MOVIE" shit. "YOU MUST HAVE FUCKED YER MAMA BECAUSE YOU LIKE THAT MOVIE". Give it a rest. I have Matrix on DVD, I saw it twice in the theater, I thought TPM sucked a big slimy donkey turd, end of story. Why anyone needs to convince someone otherwise is beyond me.
Sept. 28, 2000, 3:40 p.m. CST
There's a lot of hate on a site that's supposed to be dedicated to the love of movies. I hoped that if I just took a moment to share my thoughts without being too negative it might help some of us remember that. Perhaps a somewhat rose colored view of the world but one I learned from a man who named his greatest achievement "A New Hope".
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:02 p.m. CST
sure it's nice that there's another matrix coming out, but really, when is harry going to talk about star wars again? hopefully he's not waiting for the official site to confirm chris walken's participation... or to report on fuzzy video footage
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:17 p.m. CST
by CRITICAL MASS
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:20 p.m. CST
I think you hit the nail on the head with "it went against the zeitgeist in every possible way." That probably explains why not many people liked Phantom Menace, since it didn't tap into the collective unconscious the way other films did. Like, oh, I don't know, how about the Matrix?
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:22 p.m. CST
by Zekret Weapon
Gotta say this folks, but there is nothing on earth that makes me feel like I'm getting a terminal case of Irritable Bowel Syndrome like people who feel that their opinion has some weight because they've (obviously) watched a lot of films that contain minimal plot and reams of indeciphearable symbolism. Half the people here seem to be bitching about the "simplistic plot" of The Matrix. What, if something makes sense it must by definition be stupid and pointless? And yet there is also whining about the plot being ripped off from Star Wars? But that is an ingenious piece of screenwriting? Confused...Brain hurts...Oh, I get it! It makes perfect sense now! These are all people who have never seen the inside of a creative writing or psychology classroom. You see kids, there's something that Jung proposed called the "collective unconscious" (you may have heard of it) which states that there are specific "archetypes" with which we all identify to different degrees. These archetypes can be concepts, characters or STORYLINES. Look at Star Wars (just the first movie): Our hero(Luke), underestimated, uninitiated and quite bored, is living his normal life, when he falls into strange circumstances and is "called to adventure"(meets Obi-Wan). He refuses, but a catastrophic event (the death of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru) forces him into action. From a point shortly before that he begins acquiring allies (Han, Chewie, Leia, Obi-Wan, the droids) and enemies (Vader, the Empire), and is trained (by Kenobi) and tested (the rescue and escape on the Death Star). He then has a massive battle (the escape attempt) which he loses miserably, but escapes alive (Luke and the others get out, but Obi-Wan dies). Finally, taking with him all that he has learned, he returns and emerges from his battle against evil victorious (uses the Force to guide him as he destroys the Death Star). This setup is called the Hero's Journey; it is a common format for fiction, and any and all even remotely good stories revolving around a hero character adhere to it. Take the Star Wars references out of the parentheses above and plug in the plot of The Matrix, The Fifth Element, hell, even Ferris Beuller's Day Off (Hint: Ferris is not the hero), basically any movie where the protagonist starts off not wanting to do anything about it, whatever it may be. You'll see that they all match this pattern. The only difference between the Matrix and Star Wars (besides the lack of lightsabers and the "dystopian techno-fascism") is that Lucas, while a good STORYTELLER, is a genuinely shitty screenwriter. So recognize that you cannot separate The Matrix from Star Wars, no matter how much some of us might want to. I didn't say it would be easy, coffee, I just said it would be the truth. As an addition to Rowena's comment, and Sundown's (high, high above), the name "Trinity" may not be biblical at all, but may actually refer to the wiccan concept of the triple goddess: Maiden, Mother, and Crone. In the first film, Trinity is an extremely powerful, and at the same time sexual, character. If Sundown's right, perhaps in the next movie she might be a mother, and the third may be her taking up a role similar to the Oracle's as a "font" of wisdom and power. I feel it should also be noted that the $8.50 a Ticket Cash Waster (Oops, did I say that? I meant the Phantom Menace) SUCKED THE SWEAT OFF A DEAD DOG'S BALLS. There. I said it. Acting, effects (not by comparison to the Matrix, as there is NO parallel between TPM and the Matrix, but to the original Star Wars), characters, plot; you name it, I'll guarantee you it sucked. The movie tried to please everybody all of the time and wound up pleasing nobody ever. Lincoln figured that dynamic out quite some time ago; Lucas should have heeded his words. Zeke Out.
Sept. 28, 2000, 4:37 p.m. CST
There's a HUGE hubbub going on at several websites about storyboards that were leaked that involve two major fight sequences in EP2. Lucasfilm contacted all of them with cease-and-desist orders and even tried to get one ISP provider to shut a site down. No spoilers, but having read both sequences, one seems fairly impressive and one fell sort of flat. If they are real (which some people determine them to be just because Lucasfilm is trying to have them removed -- I'm not so sure) it seems that stylistically there is some copycatting going on of other popular films.
Sept. 28, 2000, 5:25 p.m. CST
by Miss Hope
Personally, I was hoping Agent Smith would start to act more likr Martin, Weaving's character in "Proof"......"Andy? Andy? What's this photo of?"
Sept. 28, 2000, 5:49 p.m. CST
Wowsas, I am one helluva Matrix fan and I've been waiting for teasers like this forever! I already love the 3 storyboards shown, looks exellent! Get some of Trinity PLEASE!! :) Well, keep up the great updates, I will be waiting ;)
Sept. 28, 2000, 5:51 p.m. CST
I loved the Phantom Menace, I thought it was a great addition to the Star Wars saga. In the other hand, I hated the Matrix with the kind of hate that makes one destroy planets. While reading this talkback, I came across many thoughtless comments regarding us Phantom Menace fans, and I'd like to tell you what I think about this. My comments are on ( ) : Someone said "Man, any person who thought that TPM was a remotely good film needs his fucking head examined. First of all, Matrix had a great storyline about our own existance. (what storyline would that be? that we are opressed by a dark force, but that there is still hope, in the chosen one?...I've heard that one before...it's called STAR WARS.) TPM had nothing but childish bullshit humor, and no storyline. (so the invasion to Naboo, the schemes of Darth Sidious, the beginning of the empowerment of Palpatine, the separation of Anakin form his mother and the beginning of a young kid's journey which we know will lead him to the dark side happened when you were on the bathroom or something?) It was just an excuse to put special effects which have been done far better in year's past up on the big screen again. (like wire-fu, in Hong Kong movies?) Secondly, Matrix was completely original and it's special effects were ten times better than THE PHANTOM TURD's were! TPM IS BASICALLY THE SAME EXACT STORY AS ANH WAS! (to be fair, The Matrix is basically the exact same story as A new hope was...there goes your originality my dear fanboy) Third, the characters were far more intelligent than any single character in TPM was! (wrong! the characters in the Matrix were disposable. Only Neo mattered. Morpheous-Wan Kenobi was there just to tell Neo "you're in the matrix. the world is not real. yadda yadda yadda. Trinity could have done that as well. Or "mouse" for that matter. ) The characters in the matrix handled far more complex dialoge and situations than any idiot in TPM did! (the invasion of Amidalas' planet, taking over the Galactic Republic, questioning the very nature of the Force, keeping the Jedi council from being corrupted by the schims of past, losing a Jedi Master, finding the chosen one, leaving a mother behind etc, is far more complex than running away from the low level stormtroopers called "agents" in a Dark City-rip off enviroment...) Believe me, no single character stands out in TPM except for that COCKSUCKING, BUTTFUCKING FAGGOT, JAR JAR SHITS WHO COMPLETELY KILLED THE FUCKING MOVIE WITH HIS CHILDISH BULLSHIT! SO, how can Lucas win back his real fans? By simply dumping the childish bullshit and giving us some meaner, darker prequels free of kiddie bullshit! Watch out Lucas, the Wachowski Brothers are going to steal your fanbase in 2002 if you don't get your shit together! (The wachowski brothers will be forgotten in the big picture and in 5 years, the Matrix will be remembered as a 90's leather movie...).....................AND here's another comment that caught my attention : " TPM was good and didn't have inane dialog but Matrix did? Neo Trinity "prancing around" in leather annoying but Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor in robes and flip flops is cool? (yes as a matter of fact, it is far cooler) Techno music in Matrix sucks but Williams generic rip off of himself score is good? (classical music in the star wars tradition vs. techno music? that should be a contest) Last Keanus sucks and can't act but that kid screaming woopie! is great acting? (comparing a 30something year old actor with an eight year old kid...) McGregor did a better job than Keanu? (McGregor WAS Obi-Wan Kenobi...)Liam phoning in a performance on a film he hated was better than Fishburne ?(Yes, it was. And he didn't hate the film, just for the record. he said he would love to come back, even if it's only as a ghost).........I know this post has gotten a bit long, so I'd like to state my final point. Agent Smith or whatever wasn't half the villian that Darth Maul was...and let's not even talk about Vader. I actually think that the Matrix, being the first movie of it's own saga, should be compared to the first movie from the Star Wars saga...(that being Episode IV). When the Matrix has made the four movie mark, then it will be fair to see if it has stayed as fresh as the Phantom Menace. And by the way, I'd choose watching Jake Lloyd saying "Yipee" than Keanu saying "Whoa" anyday.
Sept. 28, 2000, 6:15 p.m. CST
Zion? Jesus H. Christ, having Neo be some Christ figure is so friggin' asinine. Hello, he's a) violent, b) stupid, c) played by Keanu "clueless" Reeves. Fuck the Matrix. What a load of MTV style, brainless bastardization of the Bible.
Sept. 28, 2000, 6:41 p.m. CST
Personally I like both films, but I'm sick of all these idiots praising "The Matrix" like it's the best thing since sliced bread(nothing beats sliced bread. Nothing.) It was entertaining but it is NOT the new "Star Wars". I'm glad someone like Alexander the Large stepped up to the plate and competently defended "The Phantom Menace".
Sept. 28, 2000, 6:51 p.m. CST
by The Lizard King
Like when they have a big shootout with guns, and they kill a bunch of innocent security guards. Remember if you die in the Matrix you die in real life. So a bunch of innocent people were killed. Yeah Neo is just like Jesus, killing innocent people and wearing leather. What a bunch of B.S.
Sept. 28, 2000, 7:06 p.m. CST
I didn't realize there was a copyright on the Lord. Are you sure it's not a Dalai Lama analogy? He too was a "chosen one" after all. Or maybe Buddha or Sir Galahad? Most people DO know this story in one form or another (J. Cambpell) and so would find a familiarity in it, which is what a lot of filmakers are about these days -- giving the audience something they can i.d. with. In fact, I really doubt the Wachowski's were intent on making Neo seem like Jesus -- it seemed to have more mythical connotations to me. There were Oracles, after all...and the characters were given GREEK NAMES. Think about it -- in Greek, there was always a hero with a destiny. So stop whipping out the Christ analogy for everything.
Sept. 28, 2000, 7:22 p.m. CST
by The Lizard King
......Neo dies only to be resurrected soon afterwards. Neo is betrayed by someone who he trusted. In the end Neo ascends into the heavens. Not to mention the Savior stuff, the line "You're my own personal Jesus Christ.", and the foreseeing of prophecy. Nah....they didn't make it like the Christ story at all.
Sept. 28, 2000, 8:02 p.m. CST
I thought both films were great (ok, Jake Lloyd's acting really makes me wince, but the rest of the movie was great). So screw off you people that hate either one of them. Can't you just like the movies that you like and not judge other people for liking movies that you hate? P.S. The Matrix has one major advantage over TPM, however. It's on DVD, and TPM ISN'T! PLEASE GEORGE STAR WARS DVDS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sept. 28, 2000, 8:04 p.m. CST
You didn't pay cloas attention. You overlooked the part where morpheous told Neo that anyone who hadn't been unplugged was a technically a agent or something like that. So the guards weren't really innocent.
Sept. 28, 2000, 8:27 p.m. CST
This movie, while being one of the best of our time falls into a catagory which it should never have fallen into. Movies that totally kick ass, and have a shitty ending. What the hell was that flying crap!? They should have just had him drop the phone and walk out of the booth, I kept expecting the credits to roll there, he looked bad-ass and was ready for some more. But no...he had to fly...that was horrible. No more beatings of dead horses. Other movies that could've been better if the ends didn't suck: Mission To Mars...There are more, but i cna't remember them now. If you wanna comment, Email me @ Marque311@Aol.com rather than doing it here...if you dont want to comment, email me anyway. Thanks -Mark
Sept. 28, 2000, 8:30 p.m. CST
When I saw this Matrix 2 article, I knew we were going to be up to our eyeballs with ranting TalkBacks who want to tear into the Matrix and basically any other poor innocent bystander of a movie that happens to walk into the crossfire. The Matrix was a <very> pleasant suprise when it came out, and obviously Matrix 2 will have to live up to that. Give the movie a chance; we already have people writing its obituary, and it won't be out for at least a year or so! Give it a break, guys....and yes, they did have a Hong Kong Wire Fu symbolism of Jesus here, no doubt about it. Ignoring that would have meant ignoring most of the film. As a personal thought, I don't think the "Jesus" symbolism was all that offensive, because its in the context of an action movie; its not an explicit call to Christianity. If it were, though, it would deserve all this hand wringing.
Sept. 28, 2000, 8:44 p.m. CST
Darth Maul was the most profoundly lackluster villian ever. I cannot imagine the state of denial one would have to be in to think that Darth Maul was worth one button on Agent Smith's starched white shirt. I mean, really, he has no coherent lines, no character and looks like some rip-off a retarded kids holloween costume. The actor playing him (Parks?) always seems to be trying to be menacing, but never quite pulls it off. Phantom menacing as it were. Agent Smith defines and exudes primal bad-guyness - with nothing more than a bad suit and designer sunglasses! * Hey, I'll admit that the story derives from your run of the mill heroic archetype. So what? It works and can be reworked and made unique. Star Wars, A New Hope, did that. As a five year old (born in March 72) it really made an impression on me; It still does. To some extent The Matrix reflects some of that archetypical glory as well. The only thing that TPM reflects is GL's bloated ego and loss of vision.
Sept. 28, 2000, 9:25 p.m. CST
I can't even comprehend a movie ever existing which would make me sound as bitter as he does. Well, the possible exception is Cocoon; I hate seeing the comedic talents of Steve Guttenberg wasted!!!! Oh yeah, those pictures look neat.
Sept. 28, 2000, 9:35 p.m. CST
Sept. 28, 2000, 9:35 p.m. CST
Sept. 28, 2000, 9:56 p.m. CST
Sorry about that, got too happy with the return key by accident. The concept artwork is probably by Steve Skroce. He did a 5 issue stint on Wolverine recently and, from what I've gleaned, did only five issues because he had to leave to do the storyboard work for Matrix 2. All Skroce's Wolverine issues are dedicated with "special thanks to Larry Wachowski & Wendi Higenbottam" whoever Windi Higenbottam is.
Sept. 28, 2000, 10:08 p.m. CST
Avidfan does some hilariously dead-on satires of alot of the talk-backers on this site. Funny shit, really, I appreciate it. .............I forgot what else I was gonna post about.
Sept. 28, 2000, 10:24 p.m. CST
Sorry about the shouting, just trying to make sure that it wasn't lost in the crowd for the guy above that asked about Hugo Weaving/Agent Smith in the sequel. Anyways Hugo Weaving confirmed I dunno, must have been about a month, six weeks or so ago on radio in Australia during an interview on triple J that he was indeed confirmed to be a part of the next two Matrix films, and had signed aboard the back to back projects but at the time still hadn't seen anything of the actual script, so that pretty much answers that.
Sept. 28, 2000, 11:12 p.m. CST
Okay folks, it's like this. Matrix was a movie directed at late teens/young adults. TPM was a movie directed at kids. Completely different purposes. Thus, completely different movies. If you were 8, you probably were too busy being freaked out by the bug in the stomach thing to love Matrix. If you were 28, you were probably too busy wanting to kill Jar Jar to love TPM. Comparing those movies is, well, stupid.
Sept. 28, 2000, 11:35 p.m. CST
by Spelunker Gregg
If that scene with Agent Smith gettin' his clock cleaned is in the film, I'm there with my eight bucks shelled out.
Sept. 28, 2000, 11:42 p.m. CST
Listen Brian De Palma.... I know you are making fun of the hack filmmaker here, and I respect that. But enough is enough. Brian De Palma does suck ass, but that doesn't mean that you have to keep it up. Why don't you pick a truly worthy filmmaker to trash.... like PUPI AVATI! Even though he's dead, I hate him so much. He should be resurrected then re-killed!! Or how about that idiot who made WING COMMANDER? Hmmm.... there are plenty of stupid filmmakers to trash.
Sept. 28, 2000, 11:56 p.m. CST
by The Lizard King
Am I bitter? Of course I am! I'm a lizard! I'm created with a super long tongue, but with my balls in my abdomen. Wouldn't you be bitter too?
Sept. 29, 2000, 12:35 a.m. CST
C'mon, lets get a grip on reality, and my pun was intended. The Matrix was too good to go ruining with 2 other stories about "The One," and his journey of knowlegde to come to "The reality of all things." Spare us the spiritual ramblings of the Matrix by not ruining them with phony and, or probably boring upcoming sequels. Let a good movie be.
Sept. 29, 2000, 1:10 a.m. CST
by Buzz Maverik
Parts of it were very beautiful, but parts of it were horrible. And the whole time, I just kept thinking, God I hope I don't ever have to go back to the dung farm in Kansas and live with my bitch aunt who didn't even have the balls to keep that old crust from taking my dog.
Sept. 29, 2000, 1:15 a.m. CST
by Buzz Maverik
I saw PHANTOM OF THE PARADISE on a double bill with WIZARDS back in the '70s. My friend Tod brought the bong he'd made out of a Coke bottle. I don't remember a damned thing about the movies except I liked them. I was stone cold sober when I saw THE MATRIX. I don't remember a damned thing about it, except I liked it.
Sept. 29, 2000, 2:09 a.m. CST
Since this is my first post I will be breif and blunt. I do not like Matrix One and unless Matrix Two pulls an Empire Strikes Back I won't like it either. I think the concept behind the whole franchise is just a little too contrived for me to get into. I mean if I were a robot and needed all the energy I needed from a human body why would I waste energy creating a virtual world for the comatose masses to live in? Plus it's hypocritical. There's all these allusions to Neo being a Christ-like figure who needs to save humanity, freeing the slaves and all that. And what better way to do than by SEVERLY BEATING THEM!? Those guys in the lobby were in the matrix and Neo & friends had no qualms with pumping them full of virtual led. Plus I really, really, really hate Keanu Reeves. If you're a film maker and you want me to relate to a character's situation... do not get Keanu Reeves to play him(they should teach that in film school). He has the acting ability of a monkey's anus. He is my Jar Jar Binks. BOOO!! Now don't get me wrong, you're not a moron if you like this movie. It just wasn't my bag of tostitos. I'm just more pumped about Episode II and Lord of the Rings. Now all I have to do is click on the post button and I too shall become a fan boy under the assumption that my opinion actually matters. But in the mean time The Wulf Man says...this post got way longer than I intended it to be. Sorry.
Sept. 29, 2000, 3:28 a.m. CST
by Wee Willie
You're a homophobe moron who can't spell.
Sept. 29, 2000, 3:43 a.m. CST
Why are Matrix fans prisoners? Because you hide behind such vapid words as "cool" and "awesome", when describing your love for this homoerotic shitfest of a film. Why does the idea of someone getting their head punched so hard that it distorts the bejesus out of it, and glass and teeth go flying everywhere excite you? Because you have never progressed beyond the infantile obsession with playing with your own faeces. This explains your love for the Hellraisers too. All you're doing when you use these films as the lubricant on your Pleasure organ is strengthening it's muscles, making it pop up more regularly and demand to be fed. Prisoners!
Sept. 29, 2000, 3:45 a.m. CST
....some muthafucka will undoubtedly accuse me of being Christian.
Sept. 29, 2000, 6:19 a.m. CST
Look Jesus there is no way you can say Arron Kwok or Erin Chen are good fighters. They are both pansy boy singer/dancers and they fight like girls. Ok Arron was good in the barefooted kid and somebody up there like me, but erin is the shits!!!!!!he is just a posing asshole!!!!! and another thing Jet Li will make Matrix 2 shit-hot cause lets face it Keanu looked the shits when he did Kung fu and the saving graces of the film were CARRIE aNN mOSS, Hugo Weaving and Laurence Fishburne making the fight scenes good while stiff kick Keanu couldn't do shit. Forgetabout it! Jet Li will come in kick everyone's ass cause he knows real kung-fu!!!!!!!!
Sept. 29, 2000, 8:52 a.m. CST
by Eppy Thatcher
THe best thing I think somebody said here is "the Christ story" when making reference to the Matrix's references to various mythologies. Why? Simply because that's what all of this boils down to... STORIES. PIECES OF FICTION. The bible is just a book that happens to be the single most read piece of fiction for modern storytellers to base their work off of. Shakespear is in at a close second. Then you've got all the other mythologies like the bible strewen across the globe to feed off of. So what's the problem here? Is it so bad that it is playing on mythology? I don't think so. Is it so bad that the brothers are playing on the idea Neo, as a fictional character is "The One?" I don't think so. Its the same as the fictional Christ character being "The One" to those that read into that story. So what if it pushed buttons with people who may be offended or think it was a bad reference? Movies are supposed to #1: Entertain, and #2: Make you think. I think the Matrix succeeded in that with the simple concept that... what if the lives were living are lies? What did TPM make you think about? Was it supposed to even make you think, or was it just there to entertain you? I think ANH, with it's mythological references, Luke being "the New Hope" (same thing as "The One" isn't it???) for the galexy, etc. made you think about a few things... What is the Force (what is the Matrix),... What are the Jedi (who are the "hackers")... those sorts of things. Was TPM better than the Matrix or vice versa? That's for you to decide as individual viewers. I own them both for the simple reason they both entertain me. I watch the Matrix more often then TPM because the concept, while it's been done in some respects before, is fresher, and doesn't contain the insultingly annoying Jar Jar Binks. Is Reeves stiff as a board and perhaps one of the single most monotone actors ever to play an action hero? ABSOLUTELY! Did Lucas completely cave to the industry and completely blow the opportunity to really reveal something of the Star Wars universe's past and use some of the most talented actors in Hollywood today (minus little Jake of course) to expand that history? ABSOLUTELY! Now... lets sit back and consider... what is this argument really about? WORKS OF FICTION. Like a good book that makes you think, it's all about making your own conclusion. This was mine. Eppy Thatcher... Devil in your Head... Vivat Grendel.
Sept. 29, 2000, 8:54 a.m. CST
by Eppy Thatcher
Sorry about misspelling Shakespeare. I can't believe I did that. Please Great Bard... do not smite me with bad spelling and even worse grammer for the rest of my life for this offense... I will make amends... I promise!!! Eppy Thatcher... Devil in your Head... Vivat Grendel!
Sept. 29, 2000, 9:57 a.m. CST
Ok, first off I know everyone is a skeptic, but then again everyone has an optimistic side as well. I too have my doubts, yet deep inside I want Matrix 2 to rock beyond all ubercoolness and expand, effectively, on the characters and universe that the Wachowski Bros. introduced us to. That's just it, "The Matrix" was just an introduction, a film that sits us down and presents a story that is great by itself, but opens up an entire new world (or worlds for that matter) to us all. Think back, way back to the first time you watched Star Wars without thinking about empire or jedi....just with general appreciation for the story and the universe it takes place in. It kinda gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling all over. Ok, so I take this fuzzy feeling and say "Does it apply to Empire?" Well, yeah since Empire expanded on the foundation that Star Wars provided without diffusing the story. Why? Frankly, becasue Lucas is an excellent writer/director. I'm not saying that the Matrix trilogy will be the next Star Wars (as so many proclaim to the heavens). That remains to be seen. What I am saying is that the elements are present for this to be a great sequel. We have the Wachowski Brothers, who have yet to make a disappointing film. Don't get me wrong, this could be "the one" for them, but I serious doubt it. Also, this world that they have so kindly introduced us to, has so many possiblities, so much room to expand. Overlooking this growth is solid writing fused with the visual legerdemain that ILM only produces every so often. Also, the Bros. have this cool ability to cast actors/actresses who really fit their characters. Someone tell me that Joe Pantiliano wasn't great as Caesar in BOUND (yes, guys the movie is even good without the Gershon/Tilly matress scene....though it didn't hurt it one bit). Regardless of their previous endevours, I have the upmost faith that Andy and Larry will present us with a movie that will prolong the fuzzy-I-want-to-learn-kung-fu-this-rocks-I-going-back-to-see-it-againand-again-feeling that they gave us so graciously last spring. Movie_Mutt
Sept. 29, 2000, 10:53 a.m. CST
Yep- that's Steve Skroce from Marvel. He did the pre-liminary artwork for the 1st Matrix film, and was commissioned to do this as well. That's why he left as writer/artist so abruptly from Wolverine...
Sept. 29, 2000, 11:20 a.m. CST
The Keanu and matrix bashing is getting old fast. What is wrong you people? Why do these talk backs always have to be so rude to other people?? Oh and EPPY being a believer of the Bible myself i find your comment that the Bible is a book of fiction extreamly offensive. THINK BEFORE YOU POST PEOPLE!!!!!! While you are at it. GET SOME MANNERS SHEEESH!!!
Sept. 29, 2000, 12:09 p.m. CST
by The Lizard King
Read his post if you don't believe me.
Sept. 29, 2000, 12:11 p.m. CST
by Eppy Thatcher
Hey K's Angel... As someone who DOESN'T believe in any of that nonsense, and live in a country where I'm free to believe whatever I want, and express that opinion likewise,... FIRST OFF... I must say... Reeves is a descent actor, but he's still stiff and monotone. Take for example... well, just about everything he's done! Only the movies where his dialogue is minimal and he can use facial expressions to convey feelings does he do a really good job. I'm not saying I don't like his films, hell, I've seen just about all of them, but he's not exactly a Kenneth Branaugh. Point in fact... look at "Much Ado About Nothing." He is borderline a joke and he's supposed to be the villian. Miscasting to the extreme. Is he good in a role like Neo? Yeah, his dialogue isn't extremely complex. It works for him I guess. I can't mentally image anyone else in the role to be honest. He's a perfect cast for that. 'Nuff said about that. SECONDLY... again, as a nonbeliever, a former believer who has seen the light of the truth of things, I see the bible simply as fiction... mythology... a work written by men to try to control men through fear, arbitrary laws that worked for the way their society was built, mysticism, fanciful (perhaps even drug enduced) story telling, and theft of stories from other mythologies of the area. I know what I said may have offended some, including yourself, but think about what it is like being a nonbeliever in a world where this garbage is shoved down your maw 24/7 because you live in a community that has had some high school tragedy, and everyone is turning to some gods guidance; or it's in your face because the government is misguided enough to try to mix politics and religious aspirations. These are the days to be wary as a nonbeliever because somewhere out there is somebody with political contacts, or aspirations, who thinks a modern day version of the Inquisition isn't such a bad idea. It is my personal goal to do whatever I can to stop the religious right from gaining ground where it shouldn't be sticking it's fingers... in politics, the movie industry, and my life. Now I'm all riled up! Sheesh! Eppy Thatcher... Devil in YOUR Head... Vivat Grendel!
Sept. 29, 2000, 12:17 p.m. CST
He only used the term "faggot" because he was quoting someone else you idiot.
Sept. 29, 2000, 12:19 p.m. CST
by The Lizard King
....read his second post if you don't believe me.
Sept. 29, 2000, 12:22 p.m. CST
by Eppy Thatcher
Look people... I don't want to start some sort of religious debate. I just made a comment that I think was pertinant to the basis of the discussion, that from my perspective it's all fiction, and we need to visualize this as such. I don't want this to degrade into something inappropriate to this board. If that is what this has started... then I will defend my position. But otherwise... K's Angel has stated her position, I've defended mine in response... Lizard King posted a mindless retort to my original post... there it is. I don't want a fight, but don't get me wrong in thinking I won't put one up if I'm attacked for MY OPINION. Eppy Thatcher... Devil in Your Head... Vivat Grendel!
Sept. 29, 2000, 12:57 p.m. CST
I loved the visual appearance of the Matrix. I knew when I walked out of the theater that it would impact the style of movies for a long time, as it came across as so different from anything that came before. However, I have to agree with Sabrewulf that the plot was hurting... the idea that machines would expend so much effort to maintain humans as batteries... (Why not cows? Why not lobotomize the humans?) A welcome twist to the plot would be for Neo, Morphius and the guys to discover that the machines are using human brains for distributed computational power (sort of like neural networks running on real neurons!). With such a twist, machines would be using the humans' subconscience brain matter for their computing power (to run their own intelligence), and placating the conscience human minds with the Matrix. Then what Neo, Morpheius and the guys have actually done... is reach their subconscience. Course, it would be hard to explain away Matrix 1, except to pose it that it all happened "within" the matrix... i.e. their ship, etc., was really just an artifact of "like minds" connecting through the machines networks, and going into their collective subconscience to battle the machines. Thoughts?
Sept. 29, 2000, 12:59 p.m. CST
The boards and concept drawing show are by Geof Darrow. Although Steve is also working on boards.
Sept. 29, 2000, 1:02 p.m. CST
by The Lizard King
I hate when people insult other's core believes, especially when there is no relevence to the topic. I would say the same if you were talking about Buddhism, Islam, or Hinduism. People get super-pissed when someone says something about their favorite movie, and you insult someone's religion and don't want to start a debate? You have proved me right, you are a freaking retard.
Sept. 29, 2000, 1:10 p.m. CST
I liked The Matrix, it's a film that leaves you thinking about it's idea long after you've seen the picture. But I felt that the characters and interaction was either dull or just embarressingly lame - I mean Trinity saying "I love you Neo" at the end spoilt it, it really did. Trinity would've bottled herself more. The Wachowski bros need to delve more into character. They've already proven they can do some of cinema's greatest action pieces. If they can master characterisation these next two Matrix movies will kick the failing STAR WARS series right up Jar Jar Binks' Gungan behind.
Sept. 29, 2000, 1:40 p.m. CST
by Eppy Thatcher
Come on now LK... you're the one who referenced how Neo was being mis-represented as the Christ character. It seems to me you are at the root of this issue. You want me to say it? Okay... I think all the religions you mentioned are pure mythology. There... So be it. Do I hate them? No. Do I think they are wrong? Not necessarily. Religion and religious mythos has its place in the world. People, as a society of individuals, need SOMETHING to believe in... something to put their minds at ease when things are bad. If that means you need to believe in "God" or "The Great Maker" or "Kali" or whatever floats your boat that is fine by me. The fact religious mythos from many different cultures and how it played into the Matrix world is of notable importance here. The power of BELIEF is the importance here. Neo couldn't do what he did until he BELIEVED in HIMSELF as "The One." In Star Wars-land... you can't control the force unless you believe in it, and utilze that belief. My point however is this... While I have no issue with the existance of religion in the world, I have issue with it when people like yourself stuff it in my face like I'm some sort of heretic, or it is wrong to see things any other way than you. I just don't understand how people who are supposed to believe in someone who preached tolerance, love, and open arms are responsible for so much segregation, hatred, and bloodshed. That... it seems... is the modern preaching of your Christ... "Believe what I believe or I'll beat you over the head with my Bible until you are bloody and dead, and if not, we'll make sure you are a minority and hated!" Wow... that sure is a loving attitude. Are all of you like that? No, I know that's a generalization to believe so, but I get the feeling you are Lizard King. Oh, and isn't it blasphemous to be calling yourself, even in jest, the king of amphibious beasts? Isn't that your god's role? Screw it LK... you want a debate... bring it on. "I hold it the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way." -- Robert Frost. Eppy Thatcher... Devil in Your Head... Vivat Grendel!
Sept. 29, 2000, 1:50 p.m. CST
I am so sick of the Keanu can't act post. Eppy have you seen Devils Advocate, My own Private Idaho, Permanent Record, Under The Influence, or Little Buddha?? If have seen any of these films yet still say Keanu can't act, you are blind. You are another one of those people who doesn't want to see him give a good performance, or still want to see him as the moron Ted. Think you can do better?? HAHAHA. Keanu hasn't done 40 films without any talent. That goes for the rest of you Keanu bashers. You're only making yourself look like fools. I can't wait till the Gift comes out. Everyone will be eating there words especially those dumb critics.
Sept. 29, 2000, 1:53 p.m. CST
First, we can't get much from these storyboards. Yes, we see a couple of scenes, but there is no insight to the plot. Boo. Second, we need to cut out the immaturity here. Name-calling and bashing are the tools of low people. As far as I've seen, most people that Talk Back are intelligent. Third, religious bashing is not appropriate anywhere. A person's beliefs in that arena are the most personal that he or she has. No matter what opinion they have on the subject. No worries.
Sept. 29, 2000, 2:03 p.m. CST
by The Lizard King
......What do you want me to debate with you about Eppy? Huh? Do you want me to give you examples of the historical accounts of the resurrection of Christ? If you want to debate religion E-mail me. My point was not that the Bible is true (it is mind you.)but that insulting someone's beliefs is not appropriate for a talkback. When you insult someone's beliefs to defend a movie, you sound like a freaking retard.
Sept. 29, 2000, 2:40 p.m. CST
So you didn't like TPM. Screaming about it won't help. Many intelligent people with good taste enjoyed Episode I AND The Matrix. I thought Matrix was a good action film, with prententions at being something more. But the fact that anyone would think Matrix is a mythic epic for the 21st Century is laughable. Just ask yourself, in 20 years time do you think Neo, Morpheus and Trinity will be as revered as Luke, Han, and Leia? Maybe they will, I don't think so, but maybe.
Sept. 29, 2000, 3:40 p.m. CST
Did the Wachowskis say in an interview that they were mirroring the story of Christ, because I believe that those elements you listed would also apply to several other mythological stories. The obvious comparison of course is Jesus, but I wonder if that was truly their intent.
Sept. 29, 2000, 4:34 p.m. CST
I believe the storyboard artist for Matrix 2 & 3 is Steve Skroce. He recently wrote & illustrated Wolverine #150 - #153. He left Wolverine to do the storyboard gig. He has also done the art on the first dozen (about) issues of the Gambit monthly and a couple of years ago was the regular penciler on Amazing Spider-Man. After Matrix 2 & 3, he will supposedly (hopefully) return to Wolverine.
Sept. 29, 2000, 4:36 p.m. CST
1Q. Why is the Oracle in the MATRIX? Why hasn't she freed herself? A: The Oracle is not in the Matrix. She is hooked into another computer that has a link to the Matrix (or something like that). Somehow, "human" computer engineers suceeded tricking the Matrix for not detecting any anomalies in the Oracle's building. That answer comes from the original script written by the Wachowski brothers. As well as the first "finished" Star Wars original script movie (known as the Episode 4 movie), the story explained more than it should had explained. Thank God, Lucas and the Wachowski got smart and edited much of the explanatory crap.
Sept. 29, 2000, 6:40 p.m. CST
Lol I love the "The boring parts with all the talking and explaining" comments, rofl yeah sure lets make a movie out of only fight scenes..... oh wait Pay Per View already does that with UFC and WWF although WWF has really really bad boring parts with way to much talking and way to much explaining. Sure we can have John Woo direct a 120 minute gun battle and that will make all the Woo fans wet their pants. I am sure as hell it will be brilliant. Woo is a horrible film maker, the only good thing he does is the fight scenes. Hah Fitzy nice challenge, gee go plug a movie into your DVD and turn off the monitor and leave the speakers on and sit through a 2 hour radio show. ROFL no movie can stand up to that. I can poke holes in the plot and script of any movie (that I have seen of course) you want to bring to the table, anyone can. There is a reason the radio drama died out with the advent of television guy. As for Dark City, that movie was plain weak. Now Matrix is not the friggin Citizen Kane of action movies mind you, it was a good movie, probably the best action flick of the year, but Dark City? Oh please give me a weaker more acid trip inspired movie. I bet you think David Lynch or John Waters are brilliant filmmakers and not the crack smoking freak of nature perverts they are. Dark City was like the Truman Show on black tar heroin and shrooms. Mind_Guerilla, how sad is it that you hide behind your large words and pop phsycology bullshit. Look, your on here deriding the fans of the movie for being prisoners, yet your on here feeding their demon by attacking their beloved movie. Yet your on here spouting arrogance and egotism out of ever orifice on your body because they like a movie that you don't and that makes them childish and immature. If you can't understand the concept of entertainment, mindless or otherwise, thats too bad. See people have different tastes, obviously yours runs in a different direction from theirs. Yet to accuse them of immaturity because they are not "just llike you" is the height of arrogance. As if you where the supreme word on whats good and what's not. As for both sides in the religious debate, I wonder if you see the amusment that is your nearly identical stances from opposite sides of the fence. Your both desperate. Christian are desperate to prove God exists to validate their existence and give them hope that there is something more. While the Atheists are desperate to prove that he doesn't to validate their choices in life and be secure in the knowledge that free will is free will and they are in control of their destiny, not some supreme force. Rofl its hilarious. Believe what you want and shut up. Let the rest of the world believe what it wants. Atheists, don't provoke them and they won't preach to you. Christians don't preach to them and they won't atagonize you. Now be good lil children and go play nice.
Sept. 29, 2000, 10:14 p.m. CST
by Private Ryan
CCOOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL COOL
Sept. 30, 2000, 12:30 a.m. CST
It is NOT Steve Scrocke or whatever.
Sept. 30, 2000, 5 a.m. CST
I like you Rictus.
Sept. 30, 2000, 5:06 a.m. CST
AICN Talkbackers, that is. Even the craziest muthafuckas in here have more mental wattage than the average evil cocksucker running the goddamn planet. I love to poke my stick into the intellectual hornet's nest here. I want to make love to you all. Oh yeah, except the guys. Coz I'm not gay. Or anything. And stuff.
Sept. 30, 2000, 8:45 a.m. CST
That would be a nice finale to The Matrix Trilogy.
Sept. 30, 2000, 10:50 a.m. CST
Actually, it won't be a good finale. Maybe the opposite. This is just like when Lucas wanted to present Princess Leia as a demigod at the end of Episode 4 (in one of the original scripts). Bad, really bad.
Sept. 30, 2000, 11:35 a.m. CST
The first drawing im pretty sure is steve skroce and the second one im 100% its him.the third one might be him too.
Sept. 30, 2000, 1:41 p.m. CST
to all who hate the matrix or just want to piss off the fans: first, i don't think that anyone was actually saying that other science-fiction films are shit (blade runner is cool) so don't slag off the matrix just for that. second, anyone who actually took any notice of the matrix and didn't go just to see an action movie knows the matrix rocks so all you guys out there saying it's crap, bugger off and find a film that actually has something you can complain about, ie TMP that's it apart from the fact that matrix 2 &3 will rock just as much as 1 did.
Sept. 30, 2000, 3:44 p.m. CST
First of all, lets face the fact that the Wachowskis didn
Sept. 30, 2000, 4:53 p.m. CST
The art is by Geoff Darrow!!!! Not Steve Skroce! It is NOT by Steve Skroce! Stop posting that it is! It is NOT!!!!!!!! It is by Geoff Darrow, I am 110% sure of this. I am Darrow's biggest fan, and I know his work when I see it, and this is it!!!!!That is all!!!!!!
Sept. 30, 2000, 6:41 p.m. CST
by Sister Ray
Hasn't anyone noticed that there's something incredibly backwards with the plot of "The Matrix?" The Wachowskis played an outstanding trick on their audience -- indeed, perhaps, on themselves -- by implying that the human resistance fighters are the *good* guys in the story. In actual fact, if you think about the information revealed to us, it should be obvious that the machines are the *real* good guys. Think about it: The world is essentially destroyed in a brutal war (or so Morpheus tells us -- we still don't know if any rebel propaganda can be taken at face value), and so the machines take pity on their human forebearers. Since few humans wanted to live in a cold, polluted, sunless wasteland, the AI constructed the first Matrix (as described by Smith to Morpheus) as a paradise for humans. But heaven was not enough for the humans; those who had elected not to be hooked into the Eden-Matrix took steps to "free" the humans from this "prison," because they were ungrateful, backwards Luddites (living in the alcove of Zion) who couldn't see that the Eden-Matrix was not only the closest we would ever get to a real paradise, it WAS a real paradise to those who lived within. To convince the humans to leave, they draw upon basic human fear archetypes by inventing lies, among them that the AI harvests the body heat of humans as an energy source (obvious falsehood, as believing this requires ignoring the laws of thermodynamics. The video Morpheus shows Neo, purportedly depicting machines using these human-batteries, was just a part of the resistance-written loading program, and was rendered by them for propaganda purposes). Eventually the resistance, led by the first "One," releases all the humans. A generation or two later, the humans who were born after the fall of the Eden-Matrix, having never been plugged in, come to their senses and realize, "Wait a minute -- we're eating slop, wearing burlap bags, and sleeping on rocks! Maybe that virtual-reality paradise grandpa was always talking about wasn't so bad." So they have the machines make a new Matrix for those who wish to return. To tighten security, the AI builds the new Matrix in the form of the real world in the twentieth century, and to combat the resistance, which is sure to rise again, the AI writes the sentient "agent" program. These agents are designed to look and act really mean, cold, and efficient, in order to frighten members of the resistance into accepting their place in the Matrix. It's a mistake to think that just because the agents are coldly evil, the core AI itself is the same. So, to sum things up: the machines created the Matrices not for a power source, but to provide humans with a decent place to live; the human rebels are misinformed Quixotes fighting an "enemy" who is really a friend. The divine-savior/Second Coming story has been told countless times (it's another basic human archetype, not a Christian invention, although the Christian version is obviously want the Wachowskis want to evoke), but rarely in a negative light. With a few alterations in the plot and dialogue, The Matrix saga could have been one of the most profound criticisms and satires of the Divine Savior archetype ever; Andy and Larry, unfortunately, seemed to want to go with the tried-and-trite, marketable plotline, which of course takes a backseat to the (excellent) special effects and (mediocre) wire-fu antics. As it stands, unfortunately, "The Matrix" is little more than "Once Upon a Time in China" meets "The Omega Code."
Oct. 1, 2000, 12:42 a.m. CST
I never thought of it like that.
Oct. 1, 2000, 4:44 a.m. CST
George Lucas is an escaped mental patient who fluked the biggest sci-fi movie of this magical planet we know as Earth... But my Neo finding out he is god idea still works.
Oct. 1, 2000, 11:46 a.m. CST
by Tir Na Nog
The Wachowski's at first appear to be geniuses. Any director who can make Keanu Reeves look like an adequate actor must have extraordinary powers. But taking into account the entire film, it becomes obvious that their genius lies in painstaking care, planning, and control. Think about it, a skilled animator can make a lump of clay appear to have a personality. Keanu is more than a lump of clay. He's a really good armature!
Oct. 1, 2000, 12:05 p.m. CST
...I find it very funny to hear people say that George Lucas is a sellout, completely ignoring the fact that after finishing the Matrix, the Wachowskis said they would never make a movie again because they were disgusted with the movie making process...and when their movie became a hit, they were oh-so ready for two back-to-back sequels. At least when Lucas said he wouldn't direct the rest of the star wars original trilogy after A New Hope he kept it. Right up to the Phantom Menace, which by the way, rocked.
Oct. 1, 2000, 12:50 p.m. CST
Gosh, I've heard a lot of discussion about it, about the Matrix. Is the Matrix really as violent as some have made it out to be? The whole Neo being the Christ figure, "The One" sort of stuff. The One who is, in the movie, supposed to be Christ yet he's wearing a black trench coat, dark sunglasses, a machine gun or two, but most importantly is pumping anyone who gets in his way full of lead. who invisions Christ this way? Yes, I think this portrayal is rather darkly degrading when looked at from the concept the directors of the movie present. The thing is, the directors present more than one concept. They had bigger ideas in mind than the old worn out "Christ-Figure" idea. The idea behind the Matrix was wasn't merely the concept of "The One;" but rather the one who "Shapes his own reality." The violence behind the Matrix is justified in my opinion when looking at it from certain religious mythology and philosophy (spelling?). I think the directors of the film used visuality to present the medium of their concept, which is: Christ, "The One," who is Neo, learns to shape his own reality. The visuality of violence seems to present their (The directors) ideas of mythology in a visual form most people can relate to, or understand in the simplist terms possible. There you have it; I think The Matrix was violent from a certain perspective, but from another perspective I don't think it violent in the least. I think it a rather visual from of interpretation. There's my two cents worth.
Oct. 1, 2000, 1:30 p.m. CST
by Tir Na Nog
All of your counterpoints in your previous post (way the hell up there in the talkback strata), though stated as obvious facts, were merely your opinions. My own preference IS techno over classical. I think it's cool classical music has endured as long as it has. I know Chopin and Mozart were giants in their time and should still be appreciated. But in my time, in the 40-or-so conscious years I've got between chilhood and Alzheimer's, I want to listen to music I enjoy. Also, I would rather hear Keanu whisper "Whoa!" than Jake cry "Yippee!"; at least it was funny. As for being eight years old as an excuse for inability to act, there are some amazing child actors working and George could could have had ANYONE in his movie. I just saw a kid in a Shakespeare's Henry IV, Part II at the Gershwin Theatre, SF last night who blew my mind. He was playing Flastaff's page and anyone who can hold his own in scenes with Falstaff is truly talented. Sorry I can't remember your name but you rocked, kiddo! Not to knock a kid, but Jake should value the experience of being in a real movie once, stay in school, and find something he's good at. Jake Lloyd was either very sloppy casting or extremely bad directing. I think the reason so many people hated Phantom Menace was it had so much potential which they felt was either wasted--Darth Maul--or spoiled--Jar Jar. It felt like a betrayal. (Not to get too emotional about flickering lights on a screen.)
Oct. 1, 2000, 3:21 p.m. CST
...you said, and I quote "All of your counterpoints in your previous post (way the hell up there in the talkback strata), though stated as obvious facts, were merely your opinions". I believe maybe you misinterpreted my message thinking that I presented most of my counterpoints as facts. Some of them were facts, and some of them were simply opinnions. You might want to check the post you're talking about, there's a line there that says "I came across many thoughtless comments regarding us Phantom Menace fans, and I'd like to tell you what I think about this"...I never said I had the absolute truth. I told you what I think about PHANTOM VS. MATRIX and then I had some facts to back my argument up. I want to clarify that I never said that being eight years old was an excuse for inability to act. I said that it is not fair to compare a 30 year old actor to an 8 year old actor. Obviously the older actor should have more insight and more practice in his craft. There are some very gifted young performers, but they are very few. If you enjoy techno music better than classical, it's fine, it's your opinnion. Personally I find techno music pretty annoying, souless, repetitive and boring. It doesn't take much to make a good techno song. But again, that is a question of opinnions. And I don't see what's so funny about Keanu whispering "whoa"...Anakin was suppossed to be a pretty sweet kid, it helps to make the fall of his character much more tragic. Let's remember, Anakin is suppossed to be a KID. And I know kids that say "yipeee"...I don't have a problem with that. I am not saying TPM was perfect, I am just saying that in my opinnion, it was far better than the Matrix. And you sound pretty adolescent for a guy in his 40's, are you sure you're not lying about your age?
Oct. 1, 2000, 4:12 p.m. CST
like star wars. The Matrix is a fashionable film to like , but won't be remembered as a classic like star wars.No matter what people say about the fight scenes in the matrix, the three way lightsaber battle in TPM blew all of them away.That battle was much more exciting, and you actually cared about what happened to the characters.
Oct. 1, 2000, 7:20 p.m. CST
Whilst I enjoyed The Matrix greatly, and remain consistently entertained by the action and good old Sci-Fi silliness contained therein, it wasn't the great milestone of action cinema it promised to be, whilst it made an attempt to emulate the blend of visceral and cerebral action present in similar anime titles (particularly GitS and Akira) the Wachowskis didn't seem to realise that that kind of thing never sits right in a two hour film, and always works better in comics (with the same works again being the best examples) I'm not saying I was disappointed by The Matrix, in fact when I first saw it I wanted to run up a lamp-post I was on such an adrenaline high. But it didn't withstand the kind of intellectual deconstruction that the hype promised, and overall, has to count as a "Nice try, but could do better movie" As for The Phantom Menace, I loved it, it was better than The Matrix, it's Star Wars.
Oct. 1, 2000, 10:17 p.m. CST
I guess Geof gets paid more money to so storyboards than comics. I hope they do get a coffee table book out for his art. I've noticed that Andy Travis seems to not approve of Geof doing storyboards...sorry man.
Oct. 2, 2000, 1:11 a.m. CST
by Andy Travis
I love Geof's art as much as the next guy...just seems odd to have him doing storyboards. Storyboards are supposed to be simple sketches to set up camera angles and the like...these pics are ready to be framed and matted by comparison. But hey! Whatever.
Oct. 2, 2000, 5:43 a.m. CST
First I would like to say congratulations to "coffee" who "guesses it all comes down to taste then". Wow! Let me tell you all a little something. It always comes down to taste! What I or anyone else might say about a movie/soundtrack/actor/director or whatever is not a cosmic truth but the way we feel/see it. It is ALWAYS about taste. I thought that everyone knew this and that it didn't have to be brought up. I guess I was wrong then. So know I'll tell you all why I THINK that "The Matrix" was incredible and "The Phantom Menace" just good. And yes, this goes to all of you bashers; Keyser195, Narrator, Cutberth51, Fitzy Funk and DailyRich and everyone I might've forgotten. "The Matrix" soundtrack fit the movie like a glove. Period. It's computer-generated music for a computer-genearted world. Everyone who doesn't see the logic of that, well, they seem a bit foolish to me. The special effects and production design was both refreshing and visually mastered to the optimal delight. Keanu Reeves actually did an OK job (He is not my favourite actor either by the way!) and the rest did a good job, especially Laurence Fishburne. And to whoever had a problem with black people bein' the vize ones... I think it is great that we get to see all kinds of ethnic groups in higher-profiled roles than the hobo in the corner of the frame! Please pass that on to your friends at the next clan meeting! And as avidfan and Ch
Oct. 2, 2000, 12:19 p.m. CST
Personally, I believe Andy Warhol was the father of other industry hypocrites ranging from Marshall McLuhan to Eddie Vedder to Fiona Apple. Each one of them said something about the pretentiousness of their art, and continued to thrive off of their own pretentiousness... almost as if they created the concept of cynicism in Hollywood, just so they could be a part of the cynical cultural elite. But anyway, that wasn't why I came here to throw in my one cent... it would have been two, but I keep losing loose change... First of all, I'm curious because if I remember correctly, Joel Silver and the Wachowskis said the next Matrix film would likely be a PREQUEL, dealing with the events that led up to the search for Neo... correct me if I'm wrong... and I do know that they did eventually plan to make the third film a sequel, where you'd get to see Zion, etc. But, if the first is true, then where exactly did these storyboards come from? I'm sure, as long as this thread already is, that many people have voiced their skepticism in the light of other hoaxes that have somehow magically found their way to Harry (over, and over again)... So, I dunno if I'm ready to bite on anything quite yet... But, lastly, is there anyone else here who thinks it would be almost in the vein of Episode I to blurb about all kinds of script and story details of Matrix 2 just so we can all ruin the surprise for ourselves, once again, as we did with Star Wars? SW fans are doing the unthinkable and setting themselves up for failure once again with the upcoming Episode II. Hey, yeah, lets learn every inch of plotline and dialogue so we can get let down just like last time. Fuck that. Call me when Matrix 2 is being released.
Oct. 2, 2000, 12:49 p.m. CST
by Tir Na Nog
Matrix II won't flop. Star Wars II won't flop. They'll both make tons of cash. Neither will be as good as its predecessor(s). I think Matrix will endure as a classic, if only a cult classic. (Maybe along the lines of Blade Runner.) Sorry if I got huffy, Alex. And I didn't say I AM forty. I'm not an adolescent either. Though I don't take "adolescent" as insult, if that's how you meant it ;) Come to think of it, I hope I NEVER "sound" forty.
Oct. 2, 2000, 2:02 p.m. CST
Ok, I've seen a lot of posts pleading the case of one movie or the other. Its really annoying. Where did this stupid competition between the two movies come from? Both were good movies and both had their problems. Keanu is a goofball actor, but he didn't ruin the movie. The only really annoying part of the Matrix was the Trinity love scene at the end. So they used a little cheese at that part. It was still a great flick. The supporting characters, from Morpheus and Agent Smith, all the way down to the spoon kid and Apoc were awesome. Star wars wasn't nearly as good as I hoped it would be...but it was still a great movie. Jar Jar was annoying...we all know this and we all hope he is killed in the next movie. Jake Lloyd wasn't great either...but having a little kid play the part of one of the most anticipated roles in the history of the film industry is setting yourself up for a letdown. The movie had its high points though too...namely Darth Maul and the ending fight scene. Seriously, just give me a really good lightsaber duel and I'll be happy enough. The movie was basically a plot setup for the next two. If the next two movies leave me with the same feeling of emptyness that the first one did, then I'll be more critical. But we all agree that Lucas's work can be great and I'm going to reserve my opinion until its finished. We've seen one act of a 3 act play. As far as the Matrix not being original, I don't really care. Every musical artist claims influences from which they base their music. The Matrix is not a clone of any older movie, but does take some ideas from past works. The fact is though, that the world that is created is new and I find that world quite interesting and I'd like to see more. My main concern for the Matrix 2 is that it will lose the philisophical edge that the first one had and become only a sci-fi fight movie.
Oct. 2, 2000, 2:36 p.m. CST
by The Fatherland
Baaaaa! I hate TPM! I love The Matrix! I'm so anti-establishment and non-conformist and that makes me cool! God the techno music in Matrix was great! I love Keanu Reeves'acting! This movie is a new religion, a religion of sheep just like me! It's so intellectual! Oh I'm so cool! Let's all jump on the same baaaa-aaaand-wagon! God how pathetic. Where are all the wolves?
Oct. 2, 2000, 2:40 p.m. CST
I mean if you think about it, the concept is the same, machines evolve and human kind is killed off. Even the idea of "The One" is just like John Connor - leading the resistance. When I first saw The Matrix I instantly thought of The Terminator movies when Morpheous was talking about "The One" with Neo. A man would come and "bring about the destruction of the Matrix, bring freedom to our people", is what he said. And is it me or does this supercomputer in The Matrix remind anyone of a certain SKYNET. I bet a trillion of you hard-core fans will slap me in the face for this theory, but just think about it for a moment. Strip down the flashy effects and lame characterisations, and it's basically The Terminator (although set in your mind, or the computer's mind, or everyones mind - man I've got a headache)
Oct. 2, 2000, 5:05 p.m. CST
First: You shall have no gods before God. This means do not worship at the altar of the Matrix DVD on a daily basis blubber boy. That goes for food as well, but why call attention to this obvious? Second: Fight Club was the best movie of 1999. TPM was good wholesome entertainment, which is why so many people hate it. The Matrix, with its tangent themes to the New Testament and Campellian philosophy, was a pretty good movie, but it could have been even better without the graphic violence. Ah well, I expect some internet denizen to flame me for being a fanatical born-again zealot for my utterance of the "G" word.
Oct. 12, 2000, 9:05 a.m. CST
by Agent's Myth
Am I the only one (no, not The One) who noticed the wire in the Neo vs Smith subway scene? (Maybe I arrived at the party after everyone left, thinking no-one arrived yet!) You can see the bit of wire-fu support string at the point where Neo back-flips his way off of the subway tracks, just before he begins to fall back onto the platform... I think I've watched the DVD a few too many times... Anyone got a life?
Oct. 12, 2000, 9:21 a.m. CST
by Agent's Myth
I plump for Fat Man's Mince myself (whatever that is)... My beef (to continue with the semantic meat theme) with Star Wars Ep. I is simply this: what the hell was that already!?! After much enjoying the originals (as a child and more recently), I can't believe that the hash of computer effects, extreme bad acting, toilet-grade dialogue, and uncharismatic actors (wooden doubles were not used, to my surprise) in kindergarten-designed outfits (see Queen Polkerdot Teen)... can pass as a Star Wars film, or any film for that matter. I don't hold out much prospect for the next 2...
Oct. 16, 2000, 10:21 a.m. CST
how this is a matrix 2 board and there are a lot of anti-matrix people on here. Just makes you think.
Oct. 16, 2000, 10:23 a.m. CST
I belive Zekret Weapon has made the only intelligent post on here.
Oct. 26, 2000, 9:06 p.m. CST
It' simple folks. Some like the Matrix, some like TPM. Some likem' both, some dont like either. Just let em' pick for themselves and be happy. I seriously doubt that anyone who hasn't seen either wants all of the hateful bullshit crammed down thier throats before they even get to make thier own decisions...
Nov. 18, 2000, 10:18 p.m. CST
http://filmforce.ign.com/news/1452.html Ironically, they got them from AICN. While you're at it, check out the matrix spoof I'm working on. (Preview. Done in Flash). http://www.whereisthematrix.com
Nov. 24, 2000, 6:32 a.m. CST
TPM was the worst piece of shlock that I ever had the misfortune to pay money to see. To even try and compare The Matrix to it or even attempt to explain its popularity by saying we want to make Lucas pay is pure ludicrousy. I for one rented TPM long after I saw The Matrix at the cinema, and thank god I did or I would have been put off the sci-fi genre entirely. If you didn't understand the plot then read more. Most of the references that are made and imagery can be found in the non-fiction part of your library, yes they would be the ones without pictures.
Nov. 24, 2000, 10:49 p.m. CST
If anyone has copies of the pictures that were previously displayed on this website, I am begging you to send them to firstname.lastname@example.org . If you want to talk on AOL Instant Messenger, my s/n is niobi9504 . I am down on my knees begging you, I need these pictures to live until Christmas 2002
Nov. 27, 2000, 7:28 p.m. CST
Well folks. I just discovered this board today and I have been reading your comments. Unbelievable. Some hated TPM ... some hated Matrix. Tastes vary folks. People have different opinions. Personally I loved both movies. Yea TPM was a bit childish, but thats what it was supposed to be. Lucas has always said that the Star Wars saga was meant to reflect the serial movies of the 50's that he loved when he was a child. Regardless of what anyone says, BOTH movies had ground breaking fledgling effects technics. I agree some of these technics have already been seen and used in other movies but ... so what? ... imagine if noone would have ever used stop motion animation ever again after the very first one. Both movies were very entertaining, and they are movies, entertaining is what they are meant to be. I've been a Star Wars fan for over 20 yrs. Some of TPM pissed me off or disappointed me, but after 20 yrs of waiting I feel Lucas stayed true to his original feel and story structure and gave me what I've been waiting for. The matrix on the other hand I felt was an excellent movie with an incredibly intellegent base plot. Yea the dialog could have been better and maybe the secondary plots could have been meatier, but it delivered what it promised. It was a very entertaining and exciting movie. Both are archetyped. Everyone who has said that is 100% correct. But I challange you to name ONE movie that isn't. There are none. So, after having said all this, I am going to sit here, drink my coffee and wait till 2002 when Episode 2 and Matrix 2 hit the theaters. I plan on being entertained by both. TO Zekret Weapon: In Ferris ... it was Cameron wasn't it? ... hehehe ... Email me
Dec. 15, 2000, 10:25 a.m. CST
I just stumbled across this site today in computers class and I have been reading through some of your all's messages. I am preparing to do a comparison essay over the Bible and the Matrix. I love the movie and am also a Christian. After doing some researching, I have found that most if not all of the religious symbolism is intentional. I know this by reading a chat session with the Wachowski brothers. Sorry if i misspelled their name. I am sorry that you feel the way you do Eppy about religion and that you seem to think we use our faith as a scapegoat from reality. I for one do not and everything I believe in I have found to be very real. If you would like to talk to me sometime through email I would love to hear your arguements and problems with Christianity. I will try to be as openminded and tolerant as possible but I would like to apologize right now for any stubborness and any offense that I may have caused you already or in the future. None of it is intentional. To be Christian does not mean to be perfect. I for one am far from it as is everyone! Christians alike. But back to my actual reason for this message.......there are references and symbols of many different religions and beliefs which are all intentional let me assure you. I am fairly certain that the brothers are indeed Christians, especially after answering a question on the same chat session about their religious preference and they replied "non-denominational". They tried to represent as many diverse forms of religion as possible. I will try to post another message for you all with a website that I have gained my knowledge from. It is an excellent website and the portrayel of Christian concepts is broken down very nicely! I urge you to check it out. Whether you agree with Christianity or not, I think anyone can appreciate the amount of thought and planning that was required to formulate this excellent movie. I would love to hear from you all. My email address is email@example.com . I apologize for however inappropriate my address may seem. I can explain if you inquire about it. Thanks for your time and I would love to listen and try to answer any questions or concerns that you may have.
Dec. 15, 2000, 10:33 a.m. CST
I forgot to include something. Many of you have said that the Christ portrayel is false b/c Neo shoots people and is violent and so forth. But contrary to past belief, Neo did not kill innocent people. He was merely defending himself. Were Neo and the other rebels not innocent? They were merely trying to proclaim the truth under the oppresion of the agents and the machines. But do not also look upon the figure of Christ as a man who was just loving and caring and did not fight for the cause. He is of course all those things, but read the book of Revelations and another side of Christ is displayed. God is a jealous God and wants everyone to love and come to Him. The Bible also does not view war and fighting as wrong as long as it is for the glory of God and is against forces that are trying to oppress the Truth. Neo and his friends are fighting to proclaim the truth and are literally fighting a war which is also portrayed in the Bible. I must go now. I look forward to hearing from you all!
April 10, 2001, 11:08 a.m. CST
Ignorance. This is the only answer. Anyone doubting how great the Matrix truly is and was, must be unable to look beyond what he/she sees on the screen... Morons. Just Morons. Way Overboard with vocabulary to prove a point that cannot be proven... If your dumb, Just say so! LOL. Star Wars was the biggest upset in Cinema History-- re-releases are minimal, even Lucas himself said, "well... and blah,.." -- Matrix is the FIRST to use 3D spins, freeze frames, green screens, etc. CORRECTLY! Thats why it's what it is. Matrix is this Generation. Star Wars is for my Uncle Jeff. Get better actors. And Fight Club? Fight Club!? --The movie could have been black and white. They aren't even on the same level. Must be some Homos for Brad Pitt. Matrix is here and everthing else is over there... Read between the lines Buttnuts. -RAPTORZE
July 15, 2001, 12:55 p.m. CST
I'm going through the same thing aominux went through. I've been looking for bits of pieces of Matrix 2 everywhere for the past 2 months. The pictures that have been taken from this site are necessary for me to piece the movie together. If anyone was able to help aominux in sending him the taken pictures, please, aid me in my time of need. My e-mail's AngelicCorruption@e-mailguy.com and my AOL Instant Messanger is AngelicCoruption. Thanks everybody.
Aug. 21, 2001, 8:52 a.m. CST
The Matrix is the SW of this generation? First you call SW shit and now you say Matrix is the SW for this generation. Well then I guess it is this generations pile of shit. Its the posterchild for this generations Columbine Massacre wannabes. At least SW attracted families, what the fuck did the matrix attract? Faggots and loners thats who fuckwad. No go blow it out your ass if someone else didn't beat you to it