A few weeks back, I had the distinct opportunity and pleasure to moderate a Q&A here in Chicago for the film THE GOOD LIE, a feature film that tells the stories of a small group of Sudanese refugees who barely escaped with their lives from their war-torn nation and eventually made their way the United States as part of a Catholic charities initiative to help relocate a group that went on to be referred to as the Lost Boys of the Sudan (a group that included a great number of women, it should be added). Understandably so, the film’s marketing has highlighted high-profile actors in the film (Reese Witherspoon, Corey Stoll), but the true stars of the film are the relatively new actors, all of whom actually came from the Sudan and went through variations of the harrowing stories told in this film (which is not based on a specific story; it’s more an amalgam of experiences).
Two of the actors in lead rolls include Emmanuel Jal (as Paul), an international recording star and well-known hip-hop artist on the world music scene—he’s even had a documentary made about his experience (called WAR CHILD), which eventually landed him in Canada; and Ger Duany (as Jeremiah), who has acted here and there since coming to America as a teenager after being a child soldier for a brief time The Q&A was attended by a great number of “Lost Boys” who ended up in Chicago and the surrounding suburbs, and it was one of the more moving experiences I can recall as a moderator.
Accompanying Jal and Duany was the film’s producer Molly Smith, who has worked behind the scenes on such films as the recently released Hillary Swank work YOU’RE NOT YOU, as well as THE BLIND SIDE, P.S. I LOVE YOU, and BEAUTIFUL CREATURES. Her upcoming projects include DEMOLITION (director Jean-Marc Vallée’s follow up to DALLAS BUYERS CLUB and WILD, starring Jake Gyllenhaal and Naomi Watts), and SICARIO (with Emily Blunt, Jon Bernthal and Josh Brolin, directed by Denis Villeneuve). Director Philippe Falardeau (who helmed the Oscar-nominated MONSIEUR LAZHAR) has structured a remarkable film that documents the journey from being under fire in the Sudan to the overwhelming adjustment of being a foreigner in America, and both sections of the film are remarkable.
A part of me fears that people won’t come out to see this because they’ll consider it Oscar bait; it isn’t. It’s a chronicle of an experience that is still going on both in Africa and America, and it’s well worth your time. With that, please enjoy by interview with Emmanuel Jal, Ger Duany, and Molly Smith…
Capone: Thinking about those fellow Lost Boys that were at the screening last night, that must be something you’ve had to get used to, taking this movie around and talking to people and connecting with people who have been through what you have been through, and what happens to the characters in the movie. What has that experience been like for you?
Emmanuel Jal: Well it’s amazing because a lot of them react differently, and some of them were saying that the saddest thing is that history’s repeating itself. Some of them say, “Look, this is another great opportunity for our country to come back to the map now, because people are not talking about it and people are suffering.” And then others are saying, “This is something that’s going to unite us and remind us about our history.”
Capone: How have you felt about talking to people at these different screenings?
Ger Duany: Well, they’re journey has been very long. The story of the Lost Boys is the only story of men who are lost. We are just men who are still on a journey. The journey is still going. We are still walking. We are here to connect to people. We are happy to take this movie to every city and connect with people. It doesn’t feel like work; it feels like a vacation [laughs].
Capone: It’s become part of your life now. When you were first presented with this opportunity to act in this film and you read this story, did you hesitate at all re-living some of those experiences?
GD: Well, I didn’t know that I was going to be in this film, so when I shot for the role just like any other South Sudanese being a part of this world, wondering where they would scatter. Then I got a call that I’m the one who’s going to play Jeremiah, and I didn’t know how to react—whether to scream or just throw the phone away or do a backflip. I wasn’t sure.
Capone: What did you actually do?
GD: I think I stayed quiet for a very long time.
Capone: You were in shock?
GD: Yeah, I was in shock. And I just asked like, “Why? Why me and why Jeremiah?” I guess they had their reasons, and I was ready to work.
Capone: Tell me about that first reaction to being asked to play this part.
EJ: Well, when I auditioned, first of all, my question to the directors was, “If you don’t think I can do it, don’t select me, because we have to get the best people who can do this story justice.” I didn’t have confidence in myself that I could pull it off, because I find the story very delicate. It’s the story of the country, and whoever’s acting it, we need the people that are going to watch it on the screen to get the story and be moved. And then when I got the part, I was like Ger too. I got the part, and it was like, “Okay.”
For me, I celebrate after the work is done, because the emotion swings in my life—you go up and there’s also coming down. So get ready for the wave. It’s like I’m up here; it’s done, then I can celebrate, because you never know what is going to happen next. When you’re a refugee, you don’t put your emotions in things, because you’ve cried so many times, so now you just understand. Something happens, and that’s it. You get so used to being told no. You get used to sad news instead of expecting good news all the time. So if there’s good news, you can celebrate. But it’s like we’re trained to expect bad news more [laughs].
Capone: That’s terrible.
EJ: I would just say that’s how my system works. There’s bad news anyway. It’s coming. So the good news is what I use as energy to help me push through the bad.
Capone: So you’re saying you don’t celebrate anything until it’s already happened because you’re afraid it won’t happen?
EJ: Not only afraid, because anything can happen. The movie company can say, “We changed our minds.” You could get the part, and the director could say, “Look, we changed our minds. We don’t like you.”
[Everybody laughs]
Molly Smith: I want to add to that, though, because I’ve seen these guys, and they’re traveling now to help me promote this story, but even from last year making it, the pressure for the two of them to take on a story of thousands of their brothers, it’s a tall order. We’ve had Lost Boys react many different ways. Some angry or jealous that “Why are these two guys...?” You’ve seen it all. But what they both come to this project with is is a collective sense of, this is so much bigger than all of us, and to be a part of bringing their story to the world for awareness, it’s a lot of pressure on their shoulders.
They’ve done such an amazing job of also speaking to all the refugees we’ve met along the way through the making of this, through the screenings, just really helping them whether it was too emotional for some of them to re-live. And also just to celebrate with the lost boys here, like at the screening last night. That’s the spirit of the lost boys. When that man stood up and said, “Thank you for telling our story.” And then turned around in the same sentence and talking about their journey and where they’ve come from, and he says thank you to Chicago for taking them in. That’s what the beauty of this story is.
Capone: Molly, talk about just the journey the script took and getting Reese involved, because that obviously was a huge boost.
MS: Yeah, sure. I think it’s funny, the journey of the script has not been as long as their journey, but almost as long. Margaret Nagle started this 10 years ago, obviously with Bobby Newmyer [executive producer], who has sadly passed away. I never got to meet Bobby, but I’m sure Bobby had some of the same experience I did, which was he was probably, from what I’ve heard form his family, so touched and had so much passion to bring their story to the screen. So he’s really the one who started this, and lucky for the world hired Margaret Nagle and saw her passion for telling this story. I think the script sat around for so many years because of the bold choice she made in the way she chose to tell this story.
I can imagine now, having been studio trained, that no one knew what box to put it in. It’s half art film and half coming to America. That was a really bold choice, but I believe is the greatest strength of this script and the movie, because she takes you on their journey. By the time it made its way to myself and my partners, we were starting our indie company and trying to find projects to make, and people were like, “Are you sure? This is a project that has been around. A lot of people have passed on it.”
But we loved it, and we thought that was the true strength of it. And the other part of the equation was finding our director, and Philippe was the only choice because he has such a unique perspective, he comes from documentaries, he was doing a documentary in the ’90s in Sudan and really felt like this was his love letter back to Sudan, or his calling to give back to the South Sudan because he never got to finish that documentary. And I loved that passion, too. So I feel like every place this script took a step was for a reason, and every person that became involved in this project or joined us did it for a really special reason.
When I was reading this script, Reese was really the only person I ever read it with in mind. She was Southern and feisty, I’m from Tennessee, she’s from Tennessee, and I really felt that she was the right person for the role. I remember, I sent her in the script two days before Christmas, I got it to her agent and said, “She’s got to read this if she has any time over the holidays. We’re putting it together quickly for right in the new year, and I just feel that this is so right for her. Will you send it to her?” And I remember on January 4, I got an email to meet her. She had read it over the Christmas holidays, and I met her, and she said, “What kind of movie are you making? Because it can go one direction or another.” And we talked a lot about that that it wasn’t really her story, that she was supporting, but that we needed her because she was the Western audience’s eyes, and she could bring a huge audience to this story that may otherwise go unnoticed. She said to me, “How can I not be a part of telling this story?” I have to be a part of this. I want my kids to see it. She was great.
EJ: She’s a very real person. Since she contacted us, she kept communicating just to see how we’re doing. “Are you guys okay? Do you need any help?”
MS: She’s texting them now.
EJ: Finding out how we are doing, you know?
Capone: When you were working with her, was she asking you about your lives and about how to make the whole telling of the story more real?
GD: That’s what was interesting about making this movie. It was about making a piece of art that would go places. But when you’re really making a movie about people who have been through the civil war, we would open ourselves to Reese, have a tons of conversations with Reese alone when we were on the set together. Not only talking about movies, we talk about real life. And that made us gel together as a cast put together by Molly. It was an adventure for everybody, I would say.
MS: She really approached this—and I have so much respect for the way she approached this. We told you this in the screening last night, she came to me very early on and she said, “I know my character doesn’t go to Africa, but I want to go to Africa with you guys. How can I look everyone in the eye after this and say, ‘Oh no, I just filmed in Atlanta, Georgia?’” So she went with us to the refugee camp and brought her daughter and wanted to see it for herself, see it for her own eyes. We went in there with eight people and a camera and a prop plane and flew in there and spent the whole day with UNHRC’s [United Nations Human Rights Council’s] help. She met all the refugees and toured the camp and hospitals. That just shows what kind of person she is.
Capone: Let’s talk about her changing her hair color. Before I saw the film, I honestly thought having her in it was going to take me out of it, and it is something as simple as just de-glamorizing her with the darker hair color that kept that from happening. And you said that was a very specific choice.
MS: Absolutely. Philippe and Reese and I and the other producers talked about wanting this to be so real. Reese is obviously a gorgeous girl, and every time she smiles you go, “That’s why she’s a movie star.” So she did approach it from the same way and said if you just turn down the glam a little bit, don’t have the blonde hair that pops, just make her real Kansas City. And she had just had a baby.
EJ: It was the best fit for her. It was the best fit.
MS: It was. It was the perfect time to catch her.
EJ: Doing this now would have been difficult because she prepared herself in a certain way now to look beautiful.
MS: Exactly. It’s funny, I’ve seen WILD too, and she gone even further in that in terms of de-glam. But I think she’s doing some of the most interesting work in her career because she’s choosing interesting stories she wants to be a part of, and I think of course that has to do with her producing now, because she’s now looking at things a different way. She still wants to do things, you know, I know she did a comedy [DON’T MESS WITH TEXAS] after this because I know she wanted to go back, and she’s such a talented comedic actress too, but she’s choosing really interesting roles and for the right reasons.
Capone: Ger, you came into the United States as a part of this program, and there’s a great deal of emphasis in the film on that process of getting used to being in America and the many overwhelming things about American life that you did not understand. Do you remember specific things that really were confusing or that you just found fascinating about the way Americans live?
GD: Yes, I do remember a lot of things. I came here when I was 15, 16 years old. I was a freshman in high school. A freshman that had never gone to school in his life. [Laughs] So everything was very new from the way people speak to the way the food is being served. Everything was completely different, yes. Being Des Moines, that’s the Midwest. That’s the place I see mostly white people [laughs]. So my worries were about how can I get to know this land so I can know what’s going on, so I had to learn really fast. Coming here at age 15, 16, I was young enough to have a level of ignorance or curiosity. Actually, I’m a curious kid. If I have to know something, I have to know. Yeah, I call it ignorant. That’s one thing that took me a long way.
So yeah, I didn’t know how to do nothing. The four of us that lived together—I came with a guy named Paul, and Paul was the only guy that speaks English. I thought that he spoke English when we were there, but when we came here, his English stunk. [Laughs] So now we all have to learn all over again. They put me in high school. The church brought me here in early 1994. They put us in high school, I go to church, they take me to Payless to go shopping.
EJ: You came here in ’94?
GD: Yeah.
EJ: Man, you came a long time ago.
GD: Yeah, we were the first people to come here. And then we go to Payless and they buy us clothes there, or they take us to the Salvation Army where they stack up clothes. I was amazed that I could just find clothes like this, and I’ve just left everybody at the refugee camp with no clothes. And me and my friends, we were in the clothes all day picking things we want to take. So it was a lot of things we had to learn. It was a world that we didn’t understand. It came with a courage.
Capone: You came and eventually ended up in Canada? Is that correct?
EJ: Well, my experience was complex. I remember civilization. Tall buildings. I was smuggled into Kenya in 1993 by a British aide worker. It took me a while to really understand everything, because I come from a background not knowing how big the world is. I knew about Ethiopia, I heard about Egypt, and I know about USA, but I don’t what it is. In Kenya, experiencing all this musicians, and when I saw a black actor, I used to think they were all Kenyans—like Queen Latifah and all of them, Michael Jackson, Bob Marley, Muhammad Ali. I thought Muhammad Ali was Sudanese.
[Everybody laughs]
GD: It took me awhile because I had to try to adapt to the new life, but if you look at the movie THE GOOD LIE, some of the scenes that were related to my life was going to the toilet and being shown how to use the toilet. You sit on the toilet and look down thinking a snake would bite you. So that’s what I was thinking. Nobody ever told me there was no snake there. But now I don’t do that anymore. Also, soap smells like pineapple, and I ate it. So it took me awhile to adjust.
But through my music, that’s when I was able to travel around the world. Now when I come here, my knowledge increases, but it amazes me. The bridges, the complex buildings. When I went to Switzerland, it was the first Western country I ever visited. And then coming to London and going to US. You hear about alien movies, so I used to still think in my head that white people are aliens or fallen angels. Now, I don’t believe that. But I did when I was 20-something. It was still in the back of my mind like, “These people are not normal.”
EJ: The story of the toilet is really a funny thing, because I remember, when we first came here there were four of us, and a person would go in there and pee or do whatever, and they would come back like, “Did you see what happened? It just took him right away!”
[Everybody laughs]
EJ: They’re like, “Yeah, man. This is incredible.”
Capone: One thing we didn’t talk about last night was the role these Christian organizations had, and that’s actually a fairly substantial role that Sarah Baker has. How much of an emphasis did you want to put on that part of this story?
MS: Don't you like her? She’s great. Well, you just heard Ger say he was brought over by the Lutheran church. I knew my sister met my adopted brother at a Catholic church in Memphis. So I knew in Memphis specifically it was Catholic Charities that helped re-settle these guys. It was a humanitarian effort supported by the government in terms of the actual flights, but it was the Catholic Charities and faith-based organizations and NGOs [non-governmental organizations] that got behind re-settling these guys—whether it was a re-settlement agency or an employment agency, it was mostly led by people of faith and the church groups.
They took the extra time to help these guys re-settle. So we definitely wanted to honor them, and the Carrie character [Witherspoon] and Sarah Baker’s characters were inspired by women that Margaret interviewed in Kansas City and Atlanta and all over Nashville—these women that had these great stories about how they never knew what an impact the Lost Boys were going to have on their lives. So we really wanted to celebrate those women and show also the humor that they encountered in their relationships.
Capone: What do you want people who see this film to take away from it? What do you want them thinking about when they leave the theater?
EJ: This is a story of humanity. One thing I’m sure about is the movie, it’s a voice, it’s speaking. People are going to discover themselves. You find some scenes where food is being thrown away. We just had an interview with another journalist where he was able to see a certain scene and…there’s a word...
MS: Relate.
EJ: Relate. And so, I see this as a movie that’s going to make people discover their purpose. Life is boring when you don’t have a purpose. When you find a purpose, everything is enjoyable, from when you have nothing to when you have something. And this is the movie that will show human beings’ story of survival, of young people meeting, mixing with American culture. It’s my story, it’s the voice of the dead, it’s the voice of those who are not heard, it’s the voice of those that are dying now, suffering.
We have a situation now where 1 million people are displaced. Half the population of the country, which is estimated to 4 million people, are suffering now, going to face famine and food shortages. My country just spent $1 billion on arms while UN is looking for $1 billion [for aide]. So in terms of this movie, what I see is that it’s going to create a call to action to humans. You’ll find more Lost Boys and Girls, you find more refugees of different backgrounds, and you find people to discover their purpose.
GD: See, the thing is, we all have choices as people that can change our lives, our families lives. For us to sit here and tell people “Go see this movie and take something out of it that would resonate with you,” that would just completely change the entire title of THE GOOD LIE. That would be a bad lie to me. So I want people to go and see this movie, and when they go see this movie, they should know that this marks the beginning of another long struggle for the people of South Sudan and Sudan, and that’s why we need support. However you want to take the message out of it, there are a lot of moments in this movie that are going to speak to you.
Capone: It was a real pleasure to meet you all. Thank you so much.
MS: Appreciate it. Thanks so much for taking the time.
