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Mysterio looks at the last Koepp draft of SPIDER-MAN w/Goblin and OctaviusSony announces Maguire as SPIDER-MAN

Hello there my reading friends, Harry here with an exclusive from one of the best movie spooks around... Mysterio... He's scored quite a coup here with the first post-Raimi involvement draft of SPIDER-MAN. This is still the David Koepp draft, and as we all know, Scott Rosenberg is currently handling the rewrite duties and working in close conjunction with Sam Raimi is honing the script and it's characters. Personally, I'm a bit relieved that Koepp's involvement is now over... I wish him the best of luck on his own projects, but I haven't been a very big fan of his involvement thus far with SPIDER-MAN. While this draft sounds like a vast improvement over the previous drafts... it still has a ways to go, and that is why Raimi is continuing to work on it. From the sources I have talked to involved in SPIDER-MAN, Raimi has thrown himself into this film like no director has before with a comic property. HOWEVER, I must do my duty and warn some of you about the following review... Mysterio does discuss some of the set pieces and events that take place in the film. As a Courtesy to your fellow film geeks and movie fans, if you choose to read this... respect their wishes not to know these things... always post spoiler warnings before discussing them, and be cool about it. Again... this is not the shooting draft or even the final screenwriter... What Mysterio is reading is where the project was 3 months ago and serves to give us a rough concept of how Raimi is directing this film in a new direction away from the Cameron Treatment. Watch out for spoilers, not only in the review... but in SPIDER-MAN talkbacks... read at your own risk....

Hey Harry, “Mysterio” here.

And have a got a little somethin’ special cooked up for you and the readers. Villainy has it’s moments, and this my friends is indeed one of them.

Ahem! When Columbia Pictures and Sam Raimi announced that they were replacing James Cameron’s villains, with two more far popular choices, I thought for sure I was a shoe in. Then the news hits, as always courtesy of AICN. Sam wants The GREEN GOBLIN and DOC OCTOPUS as SPIDER-MAN’s lead adversaries. As I initially read this most disturbing news, I began pounding my dome-encased head onto one of my custom-made marble tables, in a fit of rage. So much so, that I ended up cracking the table in half, and giving myself no more than a splitting headache. So, as with all crafty and genius super-villains, I meticulously planned my revenge on protesting this film until I could convince them otherwise and be heard. Unfortunately my voice wasn’t heard loud enough, even when I went down to Savannah to try and visit Raimi on the set of his latest film, “THE GIFT” in an effort to “persuade” him to think bigger, better. But I surely wasn’t going to leave the set without accomplishing anything. So I managed to take a “little gift” of my own and lift a copy of the script when the script super wasn’t looking. Figured a script review up here would surely get a notice from the man, and he would consider my actions of serious intentions. Hear a word? Nope. Heard a word? Nada.

Well let me just say, I think they’ll hear me now.

So, with the recent casting news on Tobey Maguire donning the tights, I now present to you with great pleasure, loyal AICN readers, with an all exclusive follow up to this headlining news.

Of course I can only be referring to a peek at the screenplay featuring those two villains I mentioned earlier. I figured I’d be a fly in Spider-Man’s ointment, and seriously who better to catch a spider in his own web?

Now before we proceed there are several key points and issues I will be discussing and not so much the actual plot (“With great power comes great responsibility.” Uncle Ben would say – and not the rice guy.) Some descriptions and references I will quote from the script so to give you, the reader, as clear an insight into what Raimi and Company has in store. So slight spoilers will be revealed. You’ve now been warned.

First, let me say to writer David Koepp, clever as you may be having written the following disclaimer:


…I’m cleverer for having obtained it and based on this daring disclaimer, I now call you on it. As far as those yellowy pustules having grown or spread on my fingertips, guess it’s a good thing I wear protective gloves.

So funny business aside, let’s see what we got (and I will try to be as unbiased as possible throughout this review).

Also, nearly all or any resemblance to James Cameron’s treatment or previous drafts is nearly extinct in this draft. Which means: no Sandman, Electro, Kingpin, or Spider-Man engaging in sexual intercourse with Mary Jane high atop the Brooklyn Bridge (Moriarty, you can finally breathe a sigh of relief here).

Now we all know the story of puny Parker and how a “radioactive” spider bites him and he acquires spider-like powers transforming him into the Amazing Spider-Man.

Well for one, that’s the comics’ story. It’s a little different here. It’s here, at the Columbia Genetic Research Institute that Midtown High’s student’s, including Peter Parker, are taking a tour of the lab. It’s also here that a tour guide is in the middle of discussing the three sub-orders of Arachnids and how each of the varying three groups possess different strengths.

The guide goes on the explain for instance that the jumping spider “can leap up to forty times it’s body length due to it’s proportionate muscular strength.” The funnel spider has web strands of a “tensile strength” equal to the type of “high-tension wire used in bridge building.” And finally the crab spider is said to have a set of reflexes that “boarders on precognition, an early awareness of danger, a ‘spider sense’”.

Then you have a tank of ten genetically designed “super-spiders” which combines genetic information from all three spiders. And of course one is missing and eventually drops from the ceiling and biting the unfortunate “puny” Parker on the hand. Between his thumb and forefinger.

Even though Spidey’s origin is slightly modernized, it still remains faithful to the comics’ origin. I also think the genetically enhanced spiders help to explain Spidey’s newly found attributes and abilities better as well.

Next, and definitely the one most surrounding controversy amongst the fanboys is the debate of ORGANIC/MACHANICAL WEB SHOOTERS. Hopefully we’ll put this little argument to rest right here, right now.

Yes, Parker does has organic shooters on the undersides of his wrists, which in this script are described as:

“He examines his wrists. They’re oozing a pearly white fluid from almost invisible slits about a quarter of an inch long. The slits are puffy, great pressure on the skin from inside. He pushes on the skin next to one of the slits, to relieve the pressure. A dark shape, the size and color of a rose thorn, emerges from beneath the skin and shoots a jet of liquid silk into his face.”

As you can see he’s still trying to get the hang of them.

To conceal his organic spinners, Koepp goes on to describe:

“CLOSE ON Peter’s shirtsleeves, which he has pulled down as far as he can to cover his wrists. In fact, he’s clutching them with his fingers to keep them down, not taking any chances as he walks down a crowded high school corridor.”

Now before everyone starts groaning, there is a saving grace here. And it’s a hugely satisfying one. Unable to control the accuracy and distance of his organic spinners Koepp has placed this scene describing Peter in his bedroom:

“Sparks fly. Peter has dismantled several Zippo lighters, watches, and assorted old jewelry and is silver-soldering them back together in a new way. He picks one up, blows on the solder, and puts it around his wrist.

It’s hinged in the middle, right underneath a small delicately mounted nozzle that swivels in all directions. Peter closes the wrist-bracelet around his wrist, right over his biological spinnerets.”

Yeah baby! Koepp nailed it! The organic shooters nicely explain his supply of web fluid, and mounting the mechanical web shooters over the slits keeps in with Parker’s character. This should not change over the course of re-writes! It solidifies Peter’s mutated state all the while keeping with his ingenious intelligence in manufacturing such a device. Nice job!

And finally, the Spidey suit. Koepp has kept with the classic and describes Peter…


two Danskins spill out of a plastic bag, one midnight blue and the other a deep red. Colors look good together.


Cuts through the blue, then the red, then through a nearly-opaque white mesh he’s using for the eyes.

With a black marker, he draws a big black spider outline in the middle of the red fabric.”

Again, I have to say I like the classic look here.

Peter Parker’s rise to Spider-Man and the tragic events that help lead him there are pretty on target with the comic and is pretty well developed.

Now onto the bad guys.

True to the comic, NORMAN OSBORN runs OSCORP, the company he inherited from his father and will ultimately pass down to his lesser son HARRY.

It’s deep inside of OSCORP that Osborn is working on experiments for future sale to the government. DR. OTTO OCTAVIUS heads one such experiment being worked on in which he wears a metal corset of sorts that man four long tentacles which gingerly handles various chemical-filled test tubes behind a glass partition.

It’s down here that we find too what is to become the GOBLIN GLIDER, which is described as:

“…an aerodynamically perfected boogie board, with upturned fins on each side, footholds carved into the top on each wing, and a single row of witches down the middle of the center tube, which is a propulsion system of some kind.”

It also goes on to describe the hovering glider being controlled by an “insect-looking” like helmet that when worn the glider will respond to head movements.

Dr. Octavius is working on a something called “Human Performance Enhancers” for Osborn, which is basically a chemical vapor that enhances strength and intelligence, but shows serious side effects including “propensity towards violence, central nervous system breakdown, domination, obsession, decompensation, insanity, death.”

Soon an altercation between Octavius and Norman over his work erupts, sending Octavius into a fit of rage, tentacles flying wildly about, knocking over various test tubes and beakers and such. And it’s here that Octavius has created an explosion, which sends him flying back and knocking Norman unconscious amidst the chemical catastrophe, where an ominous greenish cloud of vapor hovers towards his limp body. As the cloud passes in front of Norman’s body, he becomes transparent through the cloud to where we can see his skeleton. We can also see his lungs breathing in the fumes as they travel into his bloodstream where it’s soon carried by oxygen to his brain. As the could dissipates, Norman awakes, and eyes that we’re once bright blue have turned a “fluorescent, demonic green!”

Badly scorched, Octavius finds himself trapped under a pile of rubble, the metal corset now permanently seared into his flesh. To which now he truly becomes DOCTOR OCTOPUS!

The origin here stays pretty true to its comic source, and it’s nicely done. The Green Goblin is explored even further as he becomes delusional and his alter-ego, THE GREEN GOBLIN takes over which at times is described as a rather gruesome, painful transformation.

What I really like about Koepp’s draft is his ability in keeping with the classic Spidey stuff, but giving it that updated edge. He makes it work for the most part, but is this a great a script? No. Could it be? Hell yes! ROSENBERG WRITE ME IN THE REWRITE!

OK, all whoring myself out aside, there are some well-done and covered aspects to the script.

I think Peter Parker and Spider-Man are pretty well developed and the duality between the two is well explored and puts Spider-Man on a humanistic level with Peter because they do both get physically and emotionally wounded which is well covered.

HARRY OSBORN is well fleshed out from being the weak rich “daddy’s boy” to one of confidence and jealous rage by the end. This change in character is obvious to what will become of Harry later.

Peter/Spidey’s voice-over nicely bookends the film.

The Goblin’s arsenal consists of the ever popular “pumpkin bombs”, boomerangs and kick as “razor bats”.

And to top is off there is a fantastic mid-air battle between Spidey and the Goblin high above the Macy’s Day parade. This will definitely rock!

Now the bad and this is probably (hopefully) why Raimi has brought in Scott Rosenberg to do a re-write.

DOC OCK is a poorly underwritten character. He’s clearly the secondary villain here, and his primary motive throughout the film is to seek revenge on Norman Osborn/The Green Goblin for destroying and taking his life’s work. Spider-Man to him is more of an interference, and that’s fine and all, he just needs to be developed more.

The character of MARY JANE is plain bad. Aside from the fact that she’s hot looking, she acts like a total spoiled bitch most of the time, so it’s really hard to see what Peter sees in her besides getting horizontal. For Peter to like her, we should too and I just loathed her from start to finish here. Her character does not seem real genuine or sincere. And she needs to be, because she’s not only the object of affection in Peter’s eyes, but also HARRY OSBORN’s, (Norman’s son). She’s at the center of this increasing love triangle that persists throughout the script.

If she wasn’t in the script so much, I’d recommend tossing her aside, putting in GWEN STACY, use her in a tragic way that would help further push and develop Peter’s character, and then why not introduce M.J.’s character at the end. Have her ring Peter’s doorbell. He answers, and have her simply look up to him and reply, “Hey Tiger” to the way the comic introduces her.

And finally, the climatic finale high atop the Brooklyn Bridge is simply lackluster. The build up to this sequence never really feels like it pays off the way it should. It should top the Macy’s parade sequence but falls real short of doing so and shouldn’t.

So those are my good/bad points in a rather large nutshell. I could go on more and more, but I think that’s enough for now and hopefully some of these changes will occur in Rosenberg’s subsequent drafts. But all in all I think Sam and the gang are on the right track here, and wish them the best in doing so.

Just don’t give us a “SPIDER-MAN” movie, we want “AN AMAZING SPIDER-MAN” movie!



Hey folks, Harry here with a bit that came in the ol email box from SONY today, they sent me the official press release and photo of Tobey Maguire being cast in SPIDER-MAN. I was actually talking with one of the crew that is going to be working on SPIDER-MAN earlier today and found out nearly nothing as I was being quizzed. Although... this particular person had heard whispers that William H Macy might be being drafted in to play J Jonah Jameson, though in my mine R Lee Ermey would be the most perfect person for the role. IF Macy gets the part, well... I've loved Macy in every film I've seen him in... But my fingers are still crossed for R Lee Ermey. Also I've heard from two seperate folks including a fella from 4filmmakers.Com that Nicholas Cage is up for Norman Osborne/Green Goblin... let's see if it gets through the price negotiations. Personally, I can see that casting working as long as Raimi keeps the reins on Cage. Meanwhile, in the press release (which I've edited below) we have some additional crew positions including DP and Costume Designer... check it out folks.... looks like a damn fine solid crew!

Tobey Maguire is set to star as one of the most popular comic book icons of all time in Columbia Pictures’ live-action feature film adaptation Spider-Man, studio Chairman Amy Pascal announced today

“As an actor, Tobey is a director’s dream,” said Raimi. “He has all the qualities we were looking for in our Peter Parker.”

David Koepp (Stir of Echoes, The Lost World: Jurassic Park, Jurassic Park) has drafted a preliminary screenplay for the film; Scott Rosenberg (Gone In 60 Seconds, High Fidelity, Con Air) has also collaborated on the script. The creative team includes Oscar-nominated director of photography Don Burgess (Cast Away, What Lies Beneath, Forrest Gump), production designer Neil Spisak (The Gift, For Love of the Game, Heat) and costume designer James Acheson, who has won Academy Awards for Restoration, Dangerous Liaisons and The Last Emperor.

The film is slated to begin shooting in Los Angeles in November. The production will then move to New York. Spider-Man is being readied for a November 2001 release

Readers Talkback
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  • July 31, 2000, 8:51 p.m. CST

    He's More the Jerry Lundegaard Type...

    by Lemmy Caution

    ...but still, William Macy would work just fine as JJ. Can picture Nick Cage pulling a Jack Nicolson with this 'un if it's true, but lets hope they're mere rumors.

  • July 31, 2000, 8:52 p.m. CST

    Good job, Raimi! Now KEVIN SPACEY as Doc Ock and MARK HAMILL as

    by DarthSlater

    Now that Spidey's out of the way, it's time for all the geeks to jump in and start offering our own suggestions for all of the other roles, since we all seem to think that our opinion is more important than anybody else's. Faithful lemming that I am, I'll toss in my own two cents. Kevin Spacey: Not only does Spacey bring the important acting chops to the role (a la Nicholson in "Batman"), but he looks the part of Doc Ock. Give that man some shades and green armour and he's ready to go. Mark Hamill is the obvious choice for the Goblin. Not only can he do the voice to perfection, but give him a buzzcut and make him lose a little weight, and he could definitely pass for Norman Osborne. Plus he works cheap, so that's more money for effects shots. As far as the other casting choices go, R. Lee Emery IS J.J.J., Harry's dead on about that. Flash Thomspson should probably be played by an unknown, but if not, then go with the actor who played Stifler in "American Pie" (forgot his name, Scott something). We already know he can play an arrogant asshole jock, and he might bring some much-needed humor to the role. Mary Jane is a lot tougher--Alicia Witt can do the redhead thing, but she's not quite the total knockout that the part requires. I wonder what Charisma Carpenter would look like with a dye-job . . . hmmm . . . naaah. Gonna pass on this one. Ellen Dow or Maggie Smith could probably do a passable Aunt May. Bruce Campbell would make a kickass cameo as Eddie Brock. Anybody agree/disagree with me? Just want to tell me what a fucking idiot I am? And while I'm thinking about it, I need a massage, too. Anybody want to give me a massage? Anybody? . . . . you're all a bunch of selfish bastards. I would have given YOU a massage. Pricks.

  • July 31, 2000, 9:03 p.m. CST

    Nicholis Brenden should be Spidy!

    by GravyAkira

    I know I spelled his name wrong, but who gives a shit. He would be perfect.

  • July 31, 2000, 9:27 p.m. CST


    by Mundane Noodle

    Tobey...Spidey/Parker*Wm.H. Macy...JJJameson*Robbie Robinson...Don Cheadle*Aunt May(with heavy make-up)...Frances McDormand*Uncle Ben...Bruce Davidson(with heavy Make-up)*Doc Ock...Phillip Seymour Hoffman*Green Goblin/Osborne...Vince Vaughan*MaryJane...Piper Perabo/ (with a dye job)--Mother fucker that's hard..Yeah, I wouldn't go see this movie either.

  • July 31, 2000, 9:47 p.m. CST

    Bruce Campbell Cameo, Excellent Idea

    by Elros20

  • July 31, 2000, 9:49 p.m. CST


    by RedFive

    Well its too bad that this day had to come.Spiderman the movie is official gonna suck.No matter how great the effects and story,the 3rd and most important part of a film is the casting.Hally berry is NOT storm and tobey maguire is NOT peter parker.Hes a good actor but im sure they could have found an UNKNOWN {JUST LIKE HUGH JACKMAN} to play peter but instaed they half to go with decaprio's best friend and one of the most trendiest actors today,HELL WHY DIDNT THEY JUST HAVE FREDDY PRINCE JR PLAY SPIDERMAN.SONY SUCKS AS DOES SPIDERMAN THE MOVIE,JUST WATCH AND SEE.....

  • July 31, 2000, 9:49 p.m. CST

    "I'll be taking these Huggies, and whatever cash ya got"

    by user id indeed!

    Nic Cage should do Raising Arizona II:Revenge of Estelle, not Spiderman. Buscemi or Campbell or Hamill should do the Goblin, not Nic Cage, although it might be interesting to see him in poiple leotards and green makeup, with a H.I. accent. Phil Seymour Hoffman or Oliver Platt for Doc Ock. That's about all I gots ta say right about now... Maguire's perfect. There. Oh, and I like pigs n' blankets. That's all. This has been a Moment w/User ID Indeed!

  • July 31, 2000, 9:55 p.m. CST


    by oneragga

    Not according to this picture. However, the kid CAN act, and at least it's not sone Dawson's Creek-esqe arsehole. But where's Gwen Stacy at? Sean William Scott would make a great Flash, but it's not that hard to play a blonde frat boy prick...take yer pick in Hollywood. However, who might rock as Doc Ock?...Mike Myers...who can do drama, (see Studio 54, the movie's shit, but Myers makes it nice) and looks just like a Kirby era Doc. It's all bout the Arms and the attitude, and he could do it...and is mysteriously "free" these days...Gwendy needs to be a goody two shoes..with an edge (Tara Reid?) and Mary Jane needs to set male & female theatre pants on fire and ice 'em down seconds later....and I can't think of anyone yet who could convincingly pull this off...really I can't, and it's been twenty minutes between those last three dots.

  • July 31, 2000, 10:14 p.m. CST

    NO NO NO Kevin Spacey as The Green Goblin

    by Superman2K

    Not only is he have the Osborn look but he is the king of evil guys. Just look at him as Keyser Soze in the Usual Suspects so devious so mysterious. In Swimming with Sharks he also played one crazy evil bastard. I would throw up if i saw Nick Cage as the goblin. Luke Skywalker should do the Goblin's voice since he was so great at it in the cartoon. I dont know who doc Ock should be played by who ever the person is should be able to pull off the accent and it isnt Arnold Swartzanegar the guy just cant play scientist supervillains (Mr.Freeze). I do like the idea of that guy from Scream playing The Lizards alter ego Curt Conners even if he doesnt become the Lizard. Tobey should make a great Spidey i would have rather had Wes Bently. I find Tobey's lisp thing a bit annoying but i liked him in Ice Storm. Im still contemplating in my head if the hot babe should be Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane. I mean Gwen is involved with the Goblin Story but Mary Jane is a hot supermodel (i can see Nikki Cox playing her she's got the body and acts kinda smart). but Spacey must be the Goblin. THE GREATEST TRICK THE DEVIL EVER PULLED WAS CONVINCING THE WORLD HE DIDN'T EXIST. AND LIKE THAT...<poof>.... HE'S GONE....

  • July 31, 2000, 10:14 p.m. CST

    My prayers are answered!

    by Eric_665

    Tobey *is* Peter least the way he was in high school. This movie really needed someone with charisma and Tobey has tons of it. I've liked him ever since "Pleasantville." I'm sooooo glad they didn't get one of those soap opera-ish, teen flick-type guys or some jock-type guy. Tobey is actually a very respectable actor. OK, *this* I approve of. However...I'm worried about how the villain will be portrayed. Doc Ock and the Green Goblin were always pretty fucking hokey to me. Come to think of it, *most* of Spidey's villains are hokey. But I guess they could modify a few things to make Ock or Greeny more believable. I hope so. Either way, I'm anxiously awaiting this film

  • July 31, 2000, 10:19 p.m. CST

    Harry's Right Cage? No way.

    by HCEarwicker

    Like Harry says, it won't go through price negotiation. The X-men formula works: cast near or complete unknowns. Keep costs down. Cage is too pricey. AND he's too young for the Gobster. he's supposed to be a friend's DAD fahgadsake.

  • July 31, 2000, 10:22 p.m. CST

    it don't matter

    by Reverendz

    i'm sure I'll end up seeing this movie at some point or other, but after the whole mechanical/organic debacle, I just can't get myself psyched up to see it. The fact that Raimi is turning Parker into an angst ridden embarrassed-of-his-powers-gee-I-wish-I-wasn't-such-a-freak organic web shooting guy just put too much of a damper on the whole thing for me. I'll probably still check out postings, cause lord knows everyone loves to slow down and watch a car wreck. But man, has my enthusiasm just been flushed down the crapper.

  • July 31, 2000, 10:28 p.m. CST

    I've seen my error....

    by Mundane Noodle


  • July 31, 2000, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Hey, I've got! How about.....

    by Psyclops

    ..Let's see,..Anna Paquin or Claire Danes as Mary Jane (c'mon people, we need serious actors to make this work)- Larry Drake as Doc Ock - and Casper Van Dien as Flash Thompson. I know, I hate Casper too, but he just oozes with that "Hey, I'm a stud and I can get all the chicks I want,..Nyah-Nyah!!" quality. But hey, with Raimi at the helm, this is bound to work out somehow. Anyone remember DARKMAN.

  • July 31, 2000, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Redfive, you are so wrong and so dumb.

    by Deltahead

    This is the death of Spiderman? Are you on dope? What big blockbuster has Tobey MacGuire been in that so soured you on him? Pleasantville, Ice Storm and Cider House were all well received by critics, but only mildly succesful commercially. He's a talented fellow that a;ways does a good job. So far, the casting is A-OK. And since it's not a real Talkback unless I curse, you can go fuck a duck.

  • July 31, 2000, 10:44 p.m. CST

    Tobey Parker

    by Skytalker

    Take a look at that picture and tell me honestly you don

  • July 31, 2000, 10:53 p.m. CST

    What is your major malfunction corporal parker!!!

    by Alien Gonzales

    "there's only two kind of people come from Texas boy, STEERS AND KNOWLESES! which one are you?"

  • July 31, 2000, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Spidey Casting

    by Reggie Mantle

    Allow me to give a big thumbs up to casting Toby as Pete/Spidey. Now if Raimi would just loose that "organic webshooters" schtick (after all, if Pete really sprouted "organic webshooters", they would actually sprout from his abdomen/ass area...besides which, can male spiders even spin webs?? Anyone know the answer to that one?) As for the rest of the roles....Wizard magazine stated that LAURENCE FISHBURN is rumored to play Doc Ock...and I think this would be FUCKING AWESOME!!! (No, he doesn't look a fucking thing like comic book Doc...who cares?) But I haven't heard this rumor anywhere else, so who knows? Also, I say nix nix to William H. Macy as J. Jonah Jameson (the guy just doesn't look mean enough)...but Sweet Jesus he'd make a damn fine Uncle Ben. (Actually, Charlton Heston would make the best, but he's probably a little too old.)As for Norman/Goblin, I think Cage would be good, and so would Spacy......but imagine the horror if JOHN MALKOVICH got his hands on the role. Christ, I'd shit my pants just watching the thing. Ah, well, that's just my opinion.

  • July 31, 2000, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Just in case any Sony dudes are looking here...

    by enigmainyourhead

    here's another message begging that you get Mark Hamill in to test as the Goblin. Please, please, please!! William Macy is cool as Jonah, though I still like Campbell or Skeritt better, but it's just GOTTA BE HAMILL for Norman Osborne!

  • July 31, 2000, 11:14 p.m. CST

    STELLLAAA!!! Don't make me climb up that wall after you, Beeyaat


    Ah the classic "vested, whispy 'tache" shot. It's john Mclaine Jr!. He can actually climb up the outside of the Nakatomi plaza next time. Thus preventing a lot of unneccessary bit-part-actor damage. Tobey is totally dope. He will shine.

  • July 31, 2000, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Here is hoping...

    by Saluki

    I am hoping the director can balance his skills out. Mixing his slower pace that he has used lately with his inventiveness years before. Laurence Fishburne as Doc? In a alternative universe sorta way it would be perfect, however I highly doubt it would ever happen. As for the long debated shooters, they both have good merits (organic ones will plague Parker, seem realistic in a few areas and homemade ones show how smart Parker really is), I say pick the ones that serve the story the best. So we have to deal with new powers, two villians and death all in one movie? I'm ready for it.

  • July 31, 2000, 11:23 p.m. CST

    OK, now that Peter has been successfully cast, I have a suggesti

    by Jonny Quest

    Ahem. R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. Lee Ermey as JJJ! R. LEE ERMEY AS J. JONAH JAMESON, PLEASE!!!!!!!! C'mon, Sam, make us fanboys happy!! This could be as perfect as Patrick Stewart as Professor X!

  • July 31, 2000, 11:30 p.m. CST

    MJ or Gwen

    by Jonny Quest

    BTW, has anyone offically said which of Peter Parker's romantic interests will be used in the film? Mary Jane? Gwen Stacy? Betty Brant? Someone completely different? Inquiring minds want to know!! ******************************************************************** If Gwen is used, either Kristen Dunst or Reese Witherspoon would be a great choice. MJ, I just don't know. I've never been particulary fond of her in the comics (She just always seemed so flighty). I hope it's somebody who can show a great deal of personality and charisma, and turn me into an MJ lover after all these years.

  • July 31, 2000, 11:32 p.m. CST

    I'll let you in on a secret

    by francis soyer

    OK. I've been reading this talkback for ages. And I've only just registered just so I can say this. And you all seem like nice people, so I'm gonna share something with you. The only Mary Jane should be Jessica Biel. From 7th Heaven. And I'll Be Home For Xmas and whatever else. Go check out those photos she did recently for some dodgy magazine. That is all. Thank you for your time.

  • July 31, 2000, 11:32 p.m. CST

    Elton John in a bowl cut as Doc Ock?

    by Greased_Wizard

    Just you think about it.

  • July 31, 2000, 11:54 p.m. CST

    A better cast...

    by Dr. Ludwig Meyer

    Jameson-- Dennis Farina / Robbie Robinson-- Danny Glover / Aunt May-- Anne Haney (Mrs. Chapel in The American President) / Uncle Ben-- James Gammon (Nick on Nash Bridges) / Norman Osborn-- Tony Shalhoub or Scott Glenn / Dr. Octopus-- Oliver Platt or Vincent D'Onofrio / Gwen Stacy-- Tea Leoni / Mary Jane Watson-- Denise Richards Anybody got any better suggestions?

  • July 31, 2000, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Can we PLEASE have the classic costume used in the film?

    by KingKrypton

    If they insist on casting a guy who looks too old to play 17 and using those god-awful bio-spinners, would it be too much to ask that they at least throw us a bone and go with the classic red and blue Spider-Man costume? That reptilian-looking new design they whipped up just ain't happening....

  • July 31, 2000, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Muscular, ain't he...

    by Bari Umenema

    Streetcar Named Spiderman is right on. Plus he's getting $3.5 Million for this first one, figure at least double that for the 2nd pic and triple or quadruple for the 3rd pic. Yep some guys have all the luck...

  • Aug. 1, 2000, midnight CST

    Love Hate Relationship

    by Satanscradle

    Sam I love your movies, but jesus christ, whats up with the organic web shooters. I hope you fan boys raise enough hell about this before they start filming this bitch. Organics will ruin the film, not whos gonna play who. What the fuck is everyone bitchin about anyway, cage is perfect for the part. We will all be lucky as hell if he lands it. Sam, Don't screw us over, please god. Harry Help!!!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:04 a.m. CST

    Gwen Stafani as Gwen Stacy or Bety or whoever. HOOCHIEMAMMAGWEN

    by Alien Gonzales

    nO dOUBT!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:07 a.m. CST

    Gwen St(E)fani as Gwen Stacy or Bety or whoever. HOOCHIEMAMMAGW

    by Alien Gonzales


  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:10 a.m. CST

    This William H. Macy Rumor Better Be A Horrible Lie

    by Cowblaster

    Man, I friggin' LOVE William H. Macy with all my heart, but J. Jonah Jameson he AIN'T! He's too nice to play what Parker himself reffered to as "Darth Vader with a crew-cut." I think Spidey fans should put up another website petitioning R. Lee Ermey as J. Jonah Jameson! Plus, if Nic Cage plays the Green Goblin, this will turn into a Nicolas Cage movie. Doesn't matter whether you like it or not, it's gonna be the truth! And, what's with all the 2001 Harry Heads?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:12 a.m. CST

    Tobey is a great choice for Spidey!

    by midgard serpent

    I hope they go with the mechanical webshooters as they are true to the Parker character being a scientist, and add an intelligence to the hero.Instead of just spouting webbing from his wrists or ass or whever they think these organic orifices are protruding from Parker makes the web shooters and invents the formula for the fluid.Green Goblin and Doc Ock should be played by unknowns!!!! Make a star out of people for fucks sake! Look at Hugh Jackman, nobody had heard of him but he was a great Wolverine!Although i have to say that i like the Mark Hamil idea as he really hasn't been in front of the camera a whole lot since ROTJ! Also a note to the director about the villians. This is a film called Spider-Man, not the fucking Green Goblin Story or Dock Ocks poo striped underwear!! Don't make the Batman movie mistake and load up on the villians and neglect the hero!! Set up the Green Goblin in this one for the sequel and make Dock Ock the main villian. That way we get the best of both worlds with lots of cool Spider-Man stuff as well as the kick ass villians. Perhaps give Eddie Brock a very, very minor role or cameo, as Venom just has to be in the sequel plans!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Raimi you Magnificent bastard!

    by BrianSLA

    Although I NEVER EVER would have thought of William H. Macy, once you mention his name WOW! Look at him... he sort of does look like him a bit. Yeah R Lee Ermey & Dennis Farina are also great choices and were my top choices but they can't hold a candle to Macy's acting chops. As for those who say he's too nice... thats why it is called acting. Give him his lines and he'll deliver. He'll put more into the role and flesh him out better than the other two. R Lee Ermey doesn't or hasn't shown the acting range. So far he's one note. Farina can do more but Macy kicks butt. Macy can put a lot of character and depth into JJJ. Man this Spiderman movie looks like it is turning into a great flick with all that talent which means it will probably suck. I hope it bucks the trend. But Raimi, MaGuire & Macy are GREAT picks.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:55 a.m. CST

    What about...?

    by Grimjack99

    Oh man, I can't remember her name (gee, can ya tell I'm a guy?), but that girl from "Unhappily Ever After." She'd make a HOT Mary Jane Watson. I'd go see Spidey, even if it were Woody Allen playing Peter, as long as she was MJ. Hey, she could even do a nude scene and I wouldn't consider it out of character. No, I don't obsess, why do you ask?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:57 a.m. CST

    THAT'S IT!!

    by Grimjack99

    Nikki Cox!! Her name is NIKKI COX!! She's an Uberhottie!! My memory isn't totally blitzed after all. Woo-friggin'-Hoo!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:01 a.m. CST


    by Private Ryan

    Macy as J. Jonah...hmmmm, interesting...but not the part we usually see him in, though he kicked ass in FARGO, MAGNOLIA, and even MYSTERY MEN. And as for Tobey Maguire...yes I can see it. We'll see. As for the villains. Nic Cage as Green Goblin? Cool. But what about (I know it has been said before) Bruce Campbell? That would be uber-cool. As for Doc is a crazy thought that will never happen...what about Spacey?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Suck my invincible Buddy Lee (aka: BAD MOTHERFUCKER) cock, Bitc

    by RockStarJebus

    Maguire is a good choice, i still haven't decided if i like the organic shooters or not, but i'm not gonna bitch about it like a whiney-ass third grader. After all, I am Buddy Lee, invincible father to all you little bitches. (and i get all the chicks too.)

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Dear Santa, all I want for Christmas 2001 is this:

    by JC74


  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:33 a.m. CST

    REUTERS, Monday, July 31, 2000 -- "Nicholas Cage says, 'What do

    by superninja

    Nic Cage, desperate to live out his childhood fantasies, is in talks to play the Green Goblin in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man film. Cage's contract recently fell through on Warner Bros. SUPERMAN LIVES project, which has been placed on hold for the present. When asked if he thought he was right for the part, Cage said, "Well, there's always Antman, right? Right?!!!" This message has been brought to you by the letter "Y", as in "WHY?!" Mark Hammill or Kevin Spacey for the Green Goblin.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:46 a.m. CST

    Mark Hammill for Green Goblin! Just test the guy at least Raimi

    by superninja

    He's so perfect. Not an unknown, but he hasn't been high-profile for years and he's an underrated actor. I also like the idea of Mike Myers for Doc Ock, but I think he'd be too pricey. Jessica Biel as Mary Jane. Interesting idea. I still say Gloria Stuart and Jason Robards for Aunt May and Uncle Ben.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:53 a.m. CST

    I am Jack's love of Spider-Man!!

    by Whosyourdaddy

    this better not suck...all I really wanted to write was that jack line...ok...bye

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:56 a.m. CST

    The webshooter description sounds positively disgusting.

    by superninja

    Again, the Parker as a "freak" reference. Dear reader, why don't you tell us whether or not the script stays true to Peter's characterization by having him turn into a self-absorbed twit when he gains his powers? The fact that Doc Ock is underused causes another major problem -- does the Green Goblin get "used up" in this script? Are we never going to get the greatest dramatic achievement of the ENTIRE SPIDER-MAN saga on the silver screen: The Death of Gwen Stacy? The way you're talking, it's setting up the Hobgoblin for the sequel. It could be good, could be bad. I just wish they wouldn't waste the psychological transformation of the Osborne clan all in one film AND try to shove Doc Ock's origin in there.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:15 a.m. CST

    Fuck IT! You Know What? I Don't WANT Mechanical Webshooters!!!

    by Cowblaster

    Yeah, you heard me! All I want is for Peter Parker to get a sudden boost in his confidence at his discovery to climb walls! I want him to see these gifts as an opportunity to finally break-away from his akwardness and teenage angst! I want him to become Spider-Man to make money! To be on top for a change! I want his ego to get in the way of his rationality! I want him to let that mugger get away because all he cares about is himself! I want him to be shocked when he finds out this same mugger kills the most important person in his life! I want this to make him realize that with his new-found gifts, comes a great responsibility to use them wisely! I can't see how Raimi's treatment will deliver that to me. I also don't see the point in meshing organics with mechanics just to please the fan-base! Shit, if I'm gonna see a man with four mechanical arms, and another man flying around on a bat-shaped glider, I'll believe it if Parker wins those mechanical web-shooters from a CERIAL BOX!!! Oh, and if these enhanced spiders can just bite someone and give him these powers, what's stopping them from biting someone else, like the guys who created them? You mean to tell me Peter Parker is the first guy to be bitten by any of these four spiders?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:21 a.m. CST

    Spiderman's got a lisp. Rock on.

    by Crouton

    Last year, I was rooting for Tobey Maguire to be be Spiderman in the Talk Backs, now I'm making fun of him.--Isn't that typical?

  • I read the script over a month ago, and unless what I read was Koepp's re-write, the webshooter stuff is not new at all. In fact, the description of the oozing wrist slits is word-for-word from Cameron. The one alteration I note is that in Koepp's version, apparently the mechanical apparatus is added to actually control web flow. In Cameron's original version, Parker simply had enough control over his wrist-slits (eww) to control the flow himself. However, he did build a mock-up wrist apparatus to make the public *think* the webs were artificially generated - he didn't want to be seen as a freak. In any case, Koepp's description of the webshooters, using lighters and everything, is almost exactly the same as Cameron's description of the non-functioning mock-ups. Interesting, eh? In the end, though, both versions are still weak compared to the kick-ass original concept of FUNCTIONING MECHANICAL WEBSHOOTERS. Now I still maintain that there are many merits to Cameron's overall treatment, but the webshooter business sure as shit ain't one of 'em. If anyone wants to actually read the Cameron scriptment and judge for themselves, here's the link:

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:31 a.m. CST

    These bits of the Koepp draft does not exactly do it to me

    by Skytalker

    He messed with the Origin ( and I don

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:35 a.m. CST

    errr..all hope is NOT lost

    by Skytalker

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:41 a.m. CST


    by Rain_Dog

    I'm happy as larry about Maguire being cast as Spidey. at first I thought Wes Bentley was a better choice, but a) he's too conventionally good looking, wherwas Tobey could be a geek with potential goods looks and b)Wes is 25 or so and looks it, whereas I had a hard time believing Tobey was old enough to be in college in the Ice Storm; I thought he looked about 12 then so he should be fine now to play a seventeen/eighteen year old. Now, I think R. Lee Ermey would be a perfect JJ, BUT, Full Metal Jacket was nearly ten years ago, and Ermey was hardly a spring chicken then. He'd have to be like, 75 now. Do we really want a JJ who looks well beyond retirement age? Jameson should be an absolute powerhouse of a newspaperman, a Perry White with a pole wedged firmly up his ass. Dunno if Macey can pull it off, but Dennis Farina and Tom Skerrit can certainly play absolute motherfuckers when required to. Give me some unknown hottie as MJ, Macey as Uncle Ben (definitely need younger Ben and May than in the comics. It always bugged me how Ben was like, 30 years older than his brother Richard), and Larry Drake as Doc Ock. Norman Osborne casting has got me scuppered, but no Nic Cage cause he's too young and frankly too stylised an actor to do it well. I'm sick of all his calculated hand gestures and 'method' mumbling. Kevin Spacey may just be the best choice I've heard.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:58 a.m. CST


    by logangib

    The only problem with the organic web shooters is that at no point will spider-man have to refill his web shooters. When spider-man was in the middle of a battle and his web shooters ran out, he has to refill them and this added more suspence to the action sequences. I still want Raimi to bring back to ols mechanical web shooters. I also agree that this shows you that Peter Parker now a lot about science!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:59 a.m. CST

    Casting thoughts...

    by DarqueGuy

    First of all, let me say that I'm as pleased as hell that Maguire got the part. My first pick would've been Elijah Wood, but he's busy doin' Hobbit stuff, so it's okay. Second of all, let me just say to all the people who are ALREADY PISSING ON THIS FILM...just shut the hell up. You're the same guys who whined about X-Men and then proclaimed it the second coming of Christ when you actually saw the movie. Just wait and see. Now, for casting...Cage would be okay as Osborn, but I'd like to see either Spacey, Malkovich or Alec Baldwin (who can just ooze corporate sleaze) play the role. I love the idea of Myers as Doc Ock, but I don't know how accepting the studio/public would be (everybody would be saying "Why isn't he funnier?"). This is going out on a limb...but what about James Gandolfini (Tony Soprano)? It'd be a bit of a stretch for him...I don't remember him doing too many non-mobster roles (except in "Get Shorty" where he was still a heavy, albeit a decent one), but he's got the proper build for Doc Ock...and we know what a bastard the guy can be. Finally, for Bruce Campbell, I think Raimi should give him a small role as Dr. Curt Connors...and set him up for one of the next two sequels. Just a thought.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:07 a.m. CST

    Perfect Gwen Stacy... Christina Applegate

    by Dlhstar

    If they only would have made this film about 5 or so years ago Christina Applegate might have been able to pull it off... The only problem I see now, besides her age, is the fact she's probably been pigenholed as the dumb slut she played in MwC. (I see it from the angle that she's been out of the spotlight long enough that people might have forgotten that if they give her a good enough role). Mainly though, I think people might think she's too old. Then again, they did use Famke Jansen (sp?) who was older than Marsden in X-Men. The only reason I'm even pointing out Applegate is because, to me, she seems to have some more fo the Gwen Stacy look than many of the other mentioned girls... (And could possibly pull off the Gwen/Peter relationship without it looking like the latest teen love/comedy.) is a nice pic of Christina to help my point of view.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:12 a.m. CST


    by the-verbal-gal

    Skerritt, Farina, Ermey... there have been far better suggestions here in Talkback than Macy [and I put forth my own -- Chris Cooper]. Even though I adore the nam, I just can't see him in this role at all. Yikes.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:21 a.m. CST

    I can live with it.

    by OldGeek

    Tobey Maguire as Peter Parker -- I have no problem with that. Tobey's pretty much of a blank slate for me, I only saw him in Plesantville. For Mary Jane, Denise Richards. JJJ -- I agree with those who say Macey's too nice, but let's give him a chance. Although I'd sooner see him as Uncle Ben. Nic Cage as GG? No, thank you. This is a personal preference based on my dislike for Cage. In the same vein, how come Keanu hasn't lobbied for the GG part? Doesn't he try to get into any other superhero movie? Me, I'd go with Bruce Campbell as Norman. Oliver Platt as Doc Ock is inspired. Ock has to be pudgy but energetic, and Platt fits the bill. As for other things, I can see some good stuff in Mysterio's description, including a fair compromise between mechanic and organic webshooters. And I would ask all those who complain about Spidey's movie color scheme to take out their copies of Amazing Fantasy #15 and have a look at Spidey's outfit. There it was black with some blue to indicate shadows and muscles, as opposed to the blue and black (to indicate) that it is now. It started out as red and black, folks, and slowly evolved into red and blue. Me, I prefer the red and black look. As Alex Ross said: "A teenager who developed spider-powers wouldn't think red and blue, he'd think red and black." I agree.

  • One more time, the link is: ****** For the record, SDG, while Spidey does have gross wrist-slits in it, he still becomes the cocky Spider-Man we know and love (though since we're seeing his first adventure, he's not a full-on jokester yet). Actually, y'know what...I think it's time to break out another Cormorant Classic, reprints of my relevant posts from Talkbacks past! Yep, about a month ago, I posted my loooooong-ass, scattershot thoughts on Cameron's scriptment, and it went a little something like this (POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT): ****** Based on the scriptment's general bad press amongst Talkbackers and that whole organic webbing thingee, I expected the worst, but what I read was actually quite good. It wasn't *exactly* my vision of Spider-Man, but had Cameron directed it, it would've had true potential. In brief, the thing I liked best about Cameron's treatment is that the entire story is essentially built around the concept of the "great power, great responsibility" credo. It seems that most fans, myself included, wanted that realization to come to Peter Parker early on, say within the first third of the film (when he catches the crook that iced Uncle Ben), leaving the latter 2/3 for some good old-fashioned villain fighting. On further reflection, though, I like that Cameron makes Parker struggle with responsibility even after Uncle Ben's death. Playing the villain, Carlton Strand, as a manipulative would-be father figure is a smart test of Spider-Man's resolve, especially given that Parker's such an outcast. Strand, of course, has Electro's powers, even a somewhat similar origin, but not his personality. He's more of a legitimate threat, something of a cross between Lex Luthor and the Kingpin, and taking a cue from Batman's villains, he's even a little sympathetic. These personality alterations don't bother me. The Batman animated series proved time and again that classic villains could be reinterpreted to great success, so I'm fairly open-minded in this area. To be honest, the Electro of the comics is a pretty boring second-string villain anyway. In any case, Strand's henchman, the Sandman, DOES pretty much follow the mold of his comic book counterpart. Same origin, same personality. He's a good enforcer, and would've surely provided some kick-ass visuals in the tradition of Cameron's T-1000. Plus, his existence, and Strand's search for other super-powered misfits, suggests a world where superpowers might be somewhat common - that bodes well for sequels and for creating a good rogues gallery for Spidey. Parker himself is a fairly well-rounded character. I specifically like Cameron's description of him as defiant in his geekiness. Even in the earliest Spider-Man comics, Parker was never a passive wuss as Clark Kent has sometimes been portrayed. Cool. One thing I definitely *disliked*, though, was how very confident Peter ultimately becomes as Spider-Man. Take, for instance, the scene where he seduces Mary Jane - it's quite well-written (and yes, I was pleased it was Mary Jane and not Gwen Stacy), but I still view it as too great a betrayal of Peter's character. Pete's occasionally been able to manage a girlfriend in the comics, but I figure the guy never got laid until college (maybe not even till his ill-conceived marriage). Basically, you get Parker laid and I think you've removed a key element of his frustration, a frustration with which many teen readers identify. Another gripe - while this was just a treatment, not a full script, it also seemed that Spider-Man wasn't so much the joke-spouting adventurer he is in the comics. In fact, he was too often described as getting really pissed in combat. Not quite the Spidey I know (though some of that might've come out in a full script), but then again, he hits some pretty hard times in the story. Considering that it's his first big test, it makes sense that he wouldn't be quite so quippy yet. As for criticisms that Strand's death at the end goes against Spider-Man tradition...well, Spidey DOES try and save him, so it's not cold-blooded murder. It's a well-handled death scene anyway, and there's a great verbal exchange between Strand and the unmasked Spider-Man. And let's be brutally honest - who cares if a second-stringer like Electro dies? I figure the Sandman lives anyway. Fused into glass he may be, but any reader of superhero comics knows that's hardly a confirmed death ;) The final scene, Parker's revelation of his identity to Mary Jane, is a minor annoyance. It works well within the context of the story, and I don't even mind her knowing his secret, but it just seems to've happened too early in Spider-Man's history. Like their love scene, it should've been left to a sequel. In the end though, Cameron wrote a pretty damn good story. Minor complaints about Peter's characterization and his consummating his relationship with MJ are swept aside by a strong plot, excellent fight scenes, a focused theme, and many a cool idea. There's the web-imagery of Parker's nightmares after he's bitten, a funny scene where Parker replaces his torn homemade suit with a store-bought Spider-Man costume and finds that it's better made, and a clever notion that when Spidey becomes popular, every ethnic group wants to claim him as one of their own. Also loved the scene where Spidey has a cold and pukes on an apartment rooftop, pissing off one of the tenants. Cameron seems to really understand the hard-luck hero concept. In fact, there's so much to recommend about his scriptment that I wonder why it's raised so much ire? Up until now I've avoided reading discussions of it, so somebody clue me in. The fuss can't all be about the organic web-shooters, which I still dislike, but which also had no real bearing on the movie after their introduction. ******* And there you have it. Nothing like an extended Cormorant Classic to really put one to sleep, is there? Anyway, not to backpedal from my strong anti-organic stance, but I do think Cameron did some excellent storytelling in his draft. Guess I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate today and suggest that the Spidey legend might indeed be able to survive some alterations. Now, I didn't read about Koepp's script changes beyond the webshooter stuff, so someone who's read that and Cameron's script tell me...which one sounds better?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:33 a.m. CST

    Practically extinct, yeah right...

    by TruPhan

    Excuse me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mysterio say that Cameron's version was almsot completely extinct? That whole zippo sequence is taken right out of it! Even a whole paragraph, almost word for word. Even that bookend thing was taken out of it I believe. I'm not saying I like this scriptment or anything, it's just too strong to say "extinct". Also, as for the organic web-shooters, this seems like it's nothing more than an ego trip than anything else, seeing how much more credit those guys can take. Tobey is okay for Peter, BUT GET A FRIGGIN' UNKNOWN!!!!! I can't stress it enough!!! Just like Hugh Jackman is Wolverine, it should be the same for Spidey. I know it won't be as bad as Halle Berry for Storm, but if you can make it better, then why not!?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 4:25 a.m. CST

    great casting ideas...

    by MisterLovan

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 4:33 a.m. CST

    great casting ideas...

    by MisterLovan

    oh yeah, i got em all. don knotts or elton john as that octopus dude. umm, or schwarzennegar would be cool. green goblin, well we all know that he should be played by freddie prinze jr (c'mon, that guy's REALLY versatille, give the chum a chance!). umm peter should be played by rick moranis so it should be about spidey when he's older, but when he morphs into spiderman he should be played by stone cold steve austin because stone cold is so strong and nobody would notice, because he's extremely versatille as well. mary jane should be played by mariah carey becasue christ THEY'RE IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY! and then for venom they should cast that dude that played professor x because they're both bald and with a little makeup, wholah! we got a HUGE spiderman movie that's guaranteed to gally up about 5 or 6 rad sequels. love, mr. lovan

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 4:34 a.m. CST

    great casting ideas...

    by MisterLovan

    oh yeah, i got em all. don knotts or elton john as that octopus dude. umm, or schwarzennegar would be cool. green goblin, well we all know that he should be played by freddie prinze jr (c'mon, that guy's REALLY versatille, give the chum a chance!). umm peter should be played by rick moranis so it should be about spidey when he's older, but when he morphs into spiderman he should be played by stone cold steve austin because stone cold is so strong and nobody would notice, because he's extremely versatille as well. mary jane should be played by mariah carey becasue christ THEY'RE IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY! and then for venom they should cast that dude that played professor x because they're both bald and with a little makeup, wholah! we got a HUGE spiderman movie that's guaranteed to gally up about 5 or 6 rad sequels. love, mr. lovan

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 4:46 a.m. CST

    Perfect casting and web shooter idea

    by Harry The Hutt

    Perfect casting would be Tony Danza as the Green Goblin.They should also have Sylvester Stallone as J Jonah Jameson.Peter and JJJ both with speech impediments.You'd need subtitles for their scenes together.John Goodman or Michael J Fox as Doctor Octopussy.Whoopi Goldberg would make the perfect MJ.I know a lot of people are thinking,"What would Pete be doing with a middle-aged black woman?"All they have to do is to rewrite the character and you are in business.I feel that they should keep the sexual metaphor stuff and the organic shooters from Cameron's treatment but combine them.How?By making the web fluid shoot out of Spidey's dick instead of his wrists.Is that a great teen sexual metaphor?"I can't control my web fluid!"All they have to do is to put a sock that is the color of the rest of the suit in the front of Spidey's outfit for his special web shooter.You can imagine him holding it and shooting it at villians."Take that,Goblin!You can't escape my webbing!"Of course that little thorn is going to stick out of the tip.It will be hard for him to pee(And forget about having sex!),but it will add to his"outcast" persona in this film.It will be great to see Spidey on screen,aiming his unit towards the sky,a shot of milky white web fluid blasting out of it,and Spider-Man pulling himself up by it for some web-slinging action!Oh,and Bob Saget should be in that film somewhere,perhaps as Uncle Ben.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 4:46 a.m. CST

    Seeing Cartuna's Spacebot tear Harry in half like that just made

    by Bari Umenema

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 5:11 a.m. CST

    Cage as the Goblin?? No, my friends. The Green Goblin should be

    by Pippin's Diamond

    Cage as the Goblin is the most ninnyhammerish thing I read in the whole article! Focus, people, focus! The villains should be played by talented unknowns or semi-unknowns. What do we want from this movie? Cage as the Goblin will only set this up to be another Shoemonkey-like fiasco. IMHO, Cameron's scriptment already had a faint stench of Batman Forever. There were too many cheesy one-liners for my taste, and the action scenes seemed somewhat hokey to me (I don't know about you, but Rosenberg doesn't really make me think all that is going to change). Regardless, the great thing about Cameron's scriptment (IMHO) was Parker/Spidey. There was a lot of character development. I didn't get too excited about it, though, because this was a scriptment, and the whole time I was reading it I was thinking, 'There's way too much information here!' It's good (even in spite of the organic webshooters), but this is a movie, not a book. You have only minutes to get all this info across on screen. This is why I really would've liked to see a screenplay by Cameron. Still, I do believe Cameron's scriptment seemed to work better than this draft. Serious bad sign about this draft (as reported) - Doc Ock being a poorly underwritten character. I think this is because there are TWO major villains in the movie. Pulling off both of them successfully is going to be damn hard, if not nearly impossible. 2 villains makes it even harder for Spidey's character to be properly developed in the film, especially considering just how, well, *bizarre* are those two villains. Now please allow me to bitch a bit about the organic webshooters - WHY, dear Eru, WHY?? This is something my feverish mind still cannot understand. Why must there be a "compromise"? Exactly HOW do the organic webshooters affect the new story? (I remember they played a big part in Cameron's scriptment.) Mysterio doesn't want us to groan, but why is he so happy about this "revelation"? His so-called "saving grace" is right out of the aforementioned scriptment! What does this mean? Exactly how much of Cameron's scriptment was thrown out? Sounds like they're keeping what I think was best from the scriptment, but the new stuff they seem to be throwing in doesn't instill me much confidence. Oh boy oh boy. I feel so used by Sony. They send Harry a pic of Maguire that they selected, and Harry goes and posts it. Damn you, Sony! I had NEVER looked at Maguire this way before today! And I hadn't lusted after Spider-Man since I was 9! Alas, for my eyes and soul have been tainted...

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 5:35 a.m. CST


    by jak flash 2000

    I dont like the sound of the gas hitting him and him changing that sounds chessy. Doc Oc sounds good but under written. Spiderman sounds very good. As long as they show Spidey losing more than he wins then this film will be top stuff. In the meantime I wait for the Fantastic 4, Blade 2, and X Men 2. I love Marvel. EXCELCIOR

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 6:43 a.m. CST

    A nice compromise...

    by Otter

    about the debate about organic/mechanically web spinners. They got it right on the mark.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 6:55 a.m. CST

    Not A Big Fan of Koep or Rosenberg.

    by Buzz Maverik

    I'm not crazy about big money hackboys for this thing. Sam and Ted Raimi could probably do a better job themselves. I like the villains. One villain would be more enjoyable, but I think from the filmmaker's point of view, not even this is a guarenteed franchise and Raimi might not want to do a second movie anyway, so why not take the two biggies?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 7:01 a.m. CST

    Cormorant -- okay, but how is that possible?

    by SDG

    I'm glad you say Peter's reaction to developing spider-powers is not increased shame and alienation but exhilaration and joy. However, I cannot help thinking how I would feel if *I* developed lesions that projected a strange sticky mucous: Not only would I be appalled and disgusted, I'd be terrified that I was about to die, or to turn into Jeff Goldblum in THE FLY. What other lesions might I proceed to develop? Would my teeth and hair start falling out? What if squirting these things would eventually kill me? What if you lose biomass or your organs are dissolving? I'd want to go to the emergency room. I'd want to see the best specialists in the world. I sure as heck wouldn't be making myself a zippy costume and joyriding around Manhattan twenty stories above the sidewalk. Emotionally, imaginatively, logically, the organic webshooters JUST DON'T WORK. (Not that I have to convince you of that.)

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 7:24 a.m. CST

    Walken ep2 rumour cleared up...

    by Roger U. Roundly

    Monday July 31, 2000

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 7:54 a.m. CST

    Be careful what you wish for..

    by dougmac

    Bill Macy will be a bad choice as JJJ. Whoever said Alec Baldwin as the Goblin is right on though. MJ is going to be really tough, and Flash is going to be important. Don't be surprised if Liev Schrieber is Curt Conners now and then the Lizard in the sequel along with Venom (because they will never only have one villian) to be played by whoever plays Flash in the first. I know Venom isn't Flash in the comics, but it is just the type of move a studio would make for continuity.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 8:33 a.m. CST

    Dennis Farina for J.J.J.

    by cnote2000

    I think Tobey will make a great Spider-Man/Peter Parker. He's avery talented actor. Cage as the Goblin? I can see it. I just hope he finds the happy medium between "low-key" and "standard raving lunatic" villan. I don't think Macy is right for Jameson. Dennis Farina would be great for the part. He played Bones in Get Shorty with a great "I'm angry all the time" attitude. That's what J.J. should be all about. Organic vs. Mechanical web-shooters. I don't really care, I'm just glad the movie is finally getting made.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 8:35 a.m. CST

    not bad(minor spoilers)

    by rossimus

    I can live with the updated origin, however, the organic web shooters get worse and worse.If you're going to have them, don't be half assed and try to make them look like mechanical ones.That is even more annoying than just organic, it's almost like they want to cover their asses.There, that is the last thing I will ever say about them until I see them, no matter what kind of shit they try to pull.As far as the origin, I would like to see the movie as close to the comic, but the amalgamation of the different spiders does go a long way to explaininb ALL of Spideys powers, and still stays fairly true to the source.Now for casting ...The choice for Green Goblin HAS to be John Lithgow, he has the perfect kind of insanity to play this role, as for Doc Ock, as I've said before Sam Raimi himself, of course this will never happen, so I would choose Jason Alexander or Oliver last thing Hollywood, can I please have my superhero movies WITHOUT any Nick Cage!!!Unless they make a movie about a guy who lives in a trailer park and gets bitten by a radioactive bigfoot, maybe Isawelvis-man or Superhillbilly, he'd be the only superhero who still collects a disability check.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Doc Ock

    by OldGeek

    John Lithgow is a gifted actor, but he'd be a much better Doc Ock than Green Goblin. The longer I think about it, the better I like it: John Lithgow as Doc Ock! Yeah!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:06 a.m. CST

    Spider-man casting!

    by Helos

    This talk back board sounds just like the X-men talkback from last November. <whiny voice> "Their suits are BLACK....Magneto's too OLD....Wolverine's too TALL....Rogue's too YOUNG....Where's Rogue white streak? She doesn't have a fucking white streak!....and on, and on, and on. Well I have one word for you nay sayer's, "Shut the hell up!" Okay, four words. Look at the pictures of Toby from Pleasentville....he's PETER PARKER INCARNATE! They've included this 'buffed up' picture of Toby to please the suit and for the general public, but when November of 2001 rolls around, we're going to see puny Parker on that screen. Sam-the man-Raimi GETS Peter and knows that Petey's a geek...the buff physique will only be a side-effect of his powers. But he'll have to hide it, just like he hides his ORGANIC WEBSHOOTERS. For the record: this new draft has NO organic webshooters. Peter generates his own web-fluid and builds MECHANICAL WEBSHOOTERS As for the rest of the

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:20 a.m. CST


    by Someguywithaname

    Not sure how I feel about having a tank of spiders...I think I prefer the accidental origin--with the spider getting hit by the radiation or something less deliberate: "Hey son, dont stick your hand in there or you'll end up with a spider's powers." I am not satisfied with the webshooter explanation--it still comes across as gross. Having Parker create a device that channels or controls his webbing still isnt the same as him developing it himself. But forget about all that. Firstw e have Mcquire--who isnt a bad choice, but it would have been better to go with an unknown for the part. You need someone who is an outsider(look what Reeve did for Superman, and Jackman did for Wolverine). But even if they have Mcquire, you have two supervillians in i guess they arent going to have time to show Parker going into show business? How will the burglar fit into it? That will be the intereswting part. STAX! If you are listening! Get the script and pronto!! :)

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:21 a.m. CST

    The more I think about it....

    by cnote2000

    ...Maybe Nic Cage is wrong for the Goblin. Spacey would do great also. But please, let's just have ONE villan in this movie. GG has always been a formidable foe for Spidey and it would really let the characters build more. Once again, I think Tobey will be a kick ass Spider-Man. I have faith in Raimi just as I had faith in Bryan Singer. This movie will be great!!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:26 a.m. CST

    Bug on Spidey-Very, very late

    by Ambush Bug

    I'm glad to hear Tobey got the role. He is a very talented actor and really does look the part. He looks young enough to pass as a mature high schooler (lets face it, the 90210 kids were in their thirties and playing high schoolers) and old enough to look like a college kid and adult in later films. He's not a pretty boy and has the right stature to be the wirey Spidey. He acted his ass of in Pleasantville and the Ice Storm and really impressed me in the otherwise disappointing Ride With the Devil. Adding Tobey to the cast really kicks this film up a few notches in my book. It shows that Sam is trying to get this right. One word about Nic Cage as Norman. NO. Five words. Don't fucking do it, Sam! A poster above said this would then turn into a Nic Cage movie and he was right. Tobey is the star. This film should let him shine. Don't spend scads of $$$ to get some big name star to chew up the scenery. X-Men showed that if you go for talent, not big names, and if the film well done, the film will be well received and make money. Too many of the Batman films relied on the big stars to bring people into the movie theatre, but the payoff was poor because of horrible scripts and directing. Give the roles to talented actors who are recognizable, but not mega-stars. Willem Dafoe, Liam Neeson, or Gabriel Byrne would all give great performances as Norman Osborne and would be menacing (especially Dafoe, my personal pick) as the Green Goblin. If Doc Ock is going to take a back seat to the Goblin, why have him in it? Why not Electro? Or Sandman? Why waste two heavies in one film? But if that's what they are doing, I say cast a lesser know actor in this role. Vincent D'Onofrio is a great choice. He will be coming off of The Cell and really give this role some meat. No Oliver Platt. I could see him pulling a Nicholson with this character and that wouldn't be good. No Phillip Seymor Hoffman for the simple fact that I want him to play Foggy Nelson in the Daredevil film. My personal pick- Jeffrey Combs from the Re-Animator. Combs has played mad scientists before and would bring the right amount of pitiful insanity to the character. Plus this would harken back to Raimi's days of horror cinema. Sounds like Harry Osborne is going to have a pretty meaty role in this one. Good. I hope this forshadows dark future villain in the sequels. As for the web-spinner debate. I am still against it. I still hope the petition works. If they are going to go into the time to make the mechanics anyway, why would they need to have them in the first place? Plus if the spinnerettes are only going to be small slits in his wrists, why all the fuss about him being an outcast and covering them up with his shirtsleeves? It still doesn't seem right to me. Anyway, to sum up: Tobey good. Nic Cage as GG bad. Jeffrey Combs as Doc Ock good. Web-spinners still bad. Raimi still held in high regard for now. Don't screw this up, Sam.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:31 a.m. CST

    Spider-man casting!'s the rest.

    by Helos

    This talk back board sounds just like the X-men talkback from last November. <whiny voice> "Their suits are BLACK....Magneto's too OLD....Wolverine's too TALL....Rogue's too YOUNG....Where's Rogue white streak? She doesn't have a fucking white streak!....and on, and on, and on. Well I have one word for you nay sayer's, "Shut the hell up!" Okay, four words. Look at the pictures of Toby from Pleasentville....he's PETER PARKER INCARNATE! They've included this 'buffed up' picture of Toby to please the suit and for the general public, but when November of 2001 rolls around, we're going to see puny Parker on that screen. Sam-the man-Raimi GETS Peter and knows that Petey's a geek...the buff physique will only be a side-effect of his powers. But he'll have to hide it, just like he hides his ORGANIC WEBSHOOTERS. For the record: this new draft has NO organic webshooters. Peter generates his own web-fluid and builds MECHANICAL WEBSHOOTERS to utilize the fluid. I'm curious as to how they'll explain how Peter sticks to walls. Even the comics don't explain that one well. And the costume idea is perfect. Traditional red and blue, suitably toned down for dramatic effect. And this explains the crooked, scaley weblines on the suit....Peter drew them in with a perminate marker. I dare you to draw straight, clean weblines on fabric with a perminate marker! It's a homemade costume....just like in the comics. the comics, Peter's had 7-8 years to get the costume details he's just starting out. Crooked weblines and all. Think how this would have driven Peter of the things I love about the character is how he's so vain about his costume. Good material for comic relief in the movie. Especially if one of the villians refers to it as homemade! Okay. Casting. Willian H. Macy as Ben Parker, Mimi Kennedy as Aunt May, John Malkovich as the Green Goblin, Larry Drake, yes LARRY DRAKE, as Doctor Octopus, Laurie Prepon as MJ, and R. Lee Emory as J. Jonah Jameson. Face it....Gwen Stacy is not going to be in the movie. *sigh*

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Organic webshooter-heck yeah!

    by Nitflegal

    Actually, after reading the treatment, I'm plenty happy with the webshooters as they are. I've read Spider-man since the late 70's, that and X-Men were my favorites until Sandman came around. The one thing that never made sense for Spidey was how this kid can invent a device that not only sprays an adhsive that is super-strong and yet dissolves at a predetermined time. The marketting for this fluid would have been so lucrative that Aunt May would have had a 5 million dollar spread on Malibu even if this was Parker's one shot in the pan moment of brilliance. Of course I bought it at the time, but this makes more sense. Plus, we get to see that Petey the nerd is actually smart and resourceful, which is the purpose of the original web-shooters anyway. Of course, some people won't be happy, but If Raimi works the magic that it seems that he might, all these people will still be complaining about the organic web-shooters the fourth time they pay to see the movie!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:42 a.m. CST




  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:50 a.m. CST

    doc oc

    by dbroadhurst

    larry drake from L.A. law and darkman gets my vote for doc oc.he's big and i can imagine him doing the accent.+ angela lansbury from murder she wrote as aunt may anyone??????my wife thinks so

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:58 a.m. CST


    by dick dickman

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 10:02 a.m. CST


    by dick dickman

    Wheres this back story? Doesnt Peter let a crook go and he ends up killing his Unlce Owen or Aunt Beru or something? Or is that STAR WARS? I know the names are wrong but Im sure a fanboy can correct me on those. What a great dramatic motivation for Spidey to fight crime. Can someone give me some background on that? Bless ya. Excelsior!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 10:08 a.m. CST

    Mary Jane IS....

    by 2ndcoming

    Katie Holmes. 'Nuff said. Well, not really. And don't even try the "she's not a redhead thing" - they have wigs and dye these days. She can act, she's totally hot and likeable - this girl's supposed to be attainable for a geek like Parker, right? You can't have Nikki Cox walking around like she just fell out of a Victoria's Secret catalog. Plus Katie's worked with Raimi and Maguire before. Now...'nuff said!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 10:17 a.m. CST

    who's gonna be Mary Jane ?

    by O.G. One-Kennobi

    NIkki Cox, thats who, she would nail the part. However I want Gwen Stacy to be the love interest in spidey's life in the film. I think they should get an unknown for her.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 10:39 a.m. CST


    by PeterMiller check the link, posted on July 27th. That's all I have to say. Now for all you losers who want the "original" mechanical webshooters, they are not making the movie for you. Like X-Men, they will make it for the new fans, not you 35 year old losers who live with their parents.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 10:39 a.m. CST

    I think Nik Cage is perfect as the Goblin if they use him. But T

    by Napolean Solo

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 10:50 a.m. CST

    Nikki Cox as Mary Jane?

    by Miracleman

    Hot Diggity! I would pay $7.50 just to see that! Just dye Nikki's hair red and ye've got yerself a perfect Mary Jane Watson! But anyhoo, they should DEFINITELY have Gwen Stacey as Peter's love interest in this film, and just have Nikki Cox playing Mary Jane in a minor role (Peter! I want you to meet Mrs. Watson's niece...!). That way, they can have Gwen Stacy die her tragic comic book death, giving Peter a sure-fire motive to open a keg on The Goblin's green bum! Then, they can have Nikki Cox as Mary Jane return in the sequel, with her as the primary love interest, of course. Oh, and maybe in the first film they can somehow find a way to throw Betty Brant in there...

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Tobey babeee.......way to go

    by Smugbug

    Hey, I like this casting. After X-Men - I'm up for anything new and different. Sam Raimi is a master. He knows what he's doing. As for the guy doing the production design - totally cool. Restoration was a true gem - gorgeous. Dangerous Liasions and The Last Emperor were beautiful as well. Very dreamy. I watch all of these movies pretty regularly - just to see the set designs and costumes. Wow, I'm thinking I understand Raimi's vision now. AND Katie Holmes would be perfect, also! As well as William H. Macy! Bruce Campbell doesn't seem to have a interest in this movie. And they do need a big name like Nic Cage - so, as a Go for it. If they have the budget. But it seems all movies are going the X-Men route - no big names, low budgets - BIG BUCKS.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 11:18 a.m. CST

    What about the old-timers

    by Klam Bake

    Isn't Nic Cage a little young to play the father of a High School Student? Maybe I'm wrong. Also... In the comic wasn't the Green Goblin just Mr. Osborn in a mask and some fishnets? That G.G. origin sounds a little to much like the Joker to me. Get over it people Jack wasn't that great as the Clown Prince of Crime. At least as far as an adaption of the comic book is concerned. I agree with some above about the overflowing villians. They should introduce Dr. Octavious in this film but wait till a sequel to start the origin of Doc Oc. I also miss Gwen Stacy and Betty Brant and what about that Liz girl? wasn't she Peter's first crush?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 11:22 a.m. CST

    its a start

    by Redball

    So for, what i've read is a good start. Its a good explanation on how the web shooters work. It seems that they will work on the script. These guys seem smart enough to that. It is a work in progress. Also just because Cage might be up for the Green Goblin does not mean the flick would be overbudget. These guys do take pay cuts you know. If a guy has $100 mil. what's another 10 going to mean to them. You know what I mean. Anyway I got an idea where to put bruce Campbell. He could play Eddie Brock. What do you fanboys think of that huh. Remeber its just a suggestion so don't get your spidey breifs in a twist okay.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 11:40 a.m. CST

    Hey, how much do you wanna guess the studio will bump the releas

    by EL Duderino

    Hell, FOX took away nearly six extra months of production away from Singer. I don't know which studio is handling this film, but I have a strong feeling that whatever studio is handling this will push up the release. Then again, if we are lucky enough, maybe they'll push the release date back to 2002, which would give those guys more time to refine it and perfect the CGI. I doubt it will make the November release date. Only time will tell.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Vampire's Kiss Rules

    by jzn

    I think Cage would make a terrific green goblin. If you've ever seen his performance in the awesome "Vampire's Kiss", you should know he can make a truly compelling psychopath businessman . . .

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 11:53 a.m. CST tape of Batman and's being erased from exis

    by XTheCrovvX

    Ahh...Raimi's walking a reeal pretty path here....let's hope he stays the course....Tobey Maguire as Spidey...i like his, i said in another talkback that i would pretty much reserve my judgement of them until i saw how they worked in the film...if the script is any indication, then my gripe with organic webshooters is officially over....and death to the fanboy who says otherwise! the omission of the "showing-the-mask-then-making-the-spider-with-two-backs-on-the-Brooklyn-Bridge" scene that just pissed me off to no end from Cameron's script is a huge load off my, Nick Cage as Green Goblin...could work...he's one of my fave actors anyways...personally, though, if i was God, and i got to place him in any comic book film i wanted to, he'd be my first bet for playing the Scarecrow in any upcoming Batman along the way...but i can see him as Goblin...Mary Jane....if there's anybody working from the script reading this, let me clarify this...MARY JANE IS NOT A WHORE....thank you...casting-wise, Charisma Carpenter's my first choice (i still find it amazing as hell to believe that woman's 30...)...Claire Forlani's also on the list, if she can muster up some semblance of a personality....J Jonah Jameson...Dennis Farina....the resemblance there is uncanny....also, villain-wise, ok, i understand that this is going to be just like X-Men, in that this is indeed an intro....just the first film in what could be a series...which means that IF I DONT SEE A CGI-ENHANCED VENOM IN THE SECOND FLICK, HEADS SHALL ROLL, BRAINS WILL BE EATEN!!...::ahem:: Thank you..Revolution is my name...

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:04 p.m. CST

    Still believe J.C would have done the role justice


    Just been crawling through talk back, hoping someone had changed the record, ending the discussion about Maguire getting the part and instead reflecting on those that should been higher up the pecking oreder. Now everyone knows where I stand on this issue, for me ever since the project was given the green light I've always prayed that the verstitile Van Damme would get the nod, but I'm amazed that his name hasn't cropped up once in all the news, websites, articles and feedback I've poured over. Now I know that some some of you may disagree with my choice, the age goes against him, and the hair colour I suppose, but to have such a great action hero play the part he was born to play hair colour for God's sake shouldn't come into it. Now, don't get me wrong I trust Rami's judgement and have faith in his casting but I can't help thinking what might have been. In almost every character Van Damme has portrayed he's played him with a tough persona granted but he's always added a fair quota of charm and sensitivity, I find that alot of what makes George Clooney as well liked as he is are the same quality's possessed by Van Damme, now if Clooney can get the bat suit, why shouldn't Jean Clude get the spiders. It's a fair point that Bobba Fat Arse, the only person I've read on talk back that's agreed with me, whose comment about getting Jean Claude into the bat suit, now that would be very very cool, but I still see him as the Perfect Peter Parker. I just can't see Maguire pulling off the necessary stunt/action work that this movie will involve, OK you can envision Ray Park doing that, but then why not cast him in the Peter Parker role in the first place? When you see Jean Claudes' sublime performances as Frank Dux in the awesome Blood Sport, and the superb feats of athleticism in Kick Boxer it only goes to show that there really ever was one choice. Add his varied range of acting abilities his sensitivity, wicked sense of humour and his almost De Niro esque abilities to submerge himself under a characters skin, this truely is the tale of the one who got away. However, I stiil look forward to this movie.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:05 p.m. CST

    by Redwood

    Hmmm.... Tom Skerritt as Jameson. Stephen King as Octavius, although I like the ideas of Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Elton John. James Woods as the Green Goblin. David Morse as Uncle Ben. NO idea for Aunt May. Piper Perabo as Mary Jane or Gwen Stacy. James Van DerBeek as Flash Gordon ('Angus', anyone?). Jason Schwartzman as Harry or Bill Murray as the Green Goblin, because Rushmore is the best movie ever.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Danny DeVito as Doc Octopus

    by Duncan_Idaho27

    Is it only me or does anyone out there think DeVito would make a great Doc Octopus? Short, pudgy, great actor, and the ability to be maniacally evil (just look at Louie Depalma). Give him a nice bowl haircut whig and he's all set.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:21 p.m. CST

    How to write a superhero screenplay

    by Hellstrom

    Koepp's pseudo-science explanantions are no worse than the original irradiated spider origin. Why screw with it? It'll only serve to distract not thrill! Cinema scripts for comics need some room to move to help us identify with the characters, sure, but the fantasy element is just that: fantasy. We can buy into it either way as long as we care. If your dealing with an original creation for the screen go wild. If you are dealing with an established property best to stay close to what has gone before if only to keep us pulled in to the movie, not pulled out. Am I making any sense? Superman I did not screw with the legend, why should Spider-Man? If Chris Reeve had worn a helmet or something that would have been pretty awful...Sony, don't get stupid!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:28 p.m. CST

    casting the villians for spidey flick.

    by buster29

    The villians in the new spiderman flick need to be English especially Doc Ock. Perhaps someone along the lines of. . . . oh i don't know who, why don't you out there think of some good English contenders for the villians. Cheers for now i will return when i have something far more interesting to write.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:31 p.m. CST

    2 Villans? Too Much!

    by toshiba

    Why two? There is going to need to be too much screen time used to give some back story as to who these bad guys are and what there motivations are. Screen time that could be used for Peter's character development or action scenes once the conflict begins. Dumb idea having two villians!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:31 p.m. CST

    To the true poster boy for birth control who suggested Jean Clau

    by XTheCrovvX

    Umm...k....uhh...::snaps fingers:: YOU'RE ON DRUGS!! YEAH!! Cause nobody who's still living on pure air would come up with that talentless piece of Belgian monkey crap to desecrate Peter Parker's good name! So, it's ok...just check yourself into rehab, get yourself cleaned up, and come back into the real world, okies? FIRST, Van Damme's WAAAAAYY too old to justify Spidey's origins, according to how Stan Lee envisioned it! SECOND, his abilities dont matter! Spidey is agile as hell, and pretty acrobatic, but he's NEVER been a martial arts user...but, if they do decide to go the high road, and go pull Ray Park up for doing Tobey's stunts, i sure as hell wont mind...(pretty sure it wont happen, though...he'll be stuck on Star Wars Episode II by the time anything remotely resembling a fight scene comes into play in the Spider-Man flick) and FINALLY THIRD, no matter how much he has that mask on, Van Damme can't act for shite....i mean, Christ, what was the last GREAT Van Damme movie anybody ever saw?! Answer? Bloodsport...and it's no mistake that that's his first film...i won't even mention the travesty that was the American "Street Fighter" flick(though i dont totally blame him...i blame the writers for being the americanizing bastards they are, and making Guile the main character, when ANY GAMER WITH HALF A BRAIN KNEW THAT THAT SHOULDA BEEN KEN AND RYU'S SHOW!!!!!) Sorry, guy...let that man's career die gracefully, while he still has a shred of his dignity left...(i mean, he did get to nail Jewel at one point, yes? lucky bastard...) Revolution is my name/..

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 12:52 p.m. CST

    Mary Jane - Julia Stiles

    by danimal0949

    Being reported at as the next deal to be announced. And for all of you people looking for every character in spiderman ever like Betty Brant and Liz and yes even Gwen and Capt. Stacey, this movie would be eight hours long trying to develop so many characters! It'd be like a friggin russian novel trying to follow so many darned characters. the movie has to be able to survive on its own as an individual entity.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Michael Douglas Should Be J.J.J.

    by Elvis101

    Remember that movie, Falling Down? Michael Douglas had the JJJ haircut. He's got the temperment.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:08 p.m. CST

    anyone else hear the rumor of vince vaughn playing flash?

    by nokturnal

    i love vince, i love spider-man, i wouldn't mind seeing the two meet, but i'm not so sure i see vince playing flash...any thoughts?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:13 p.m. CST


    by O.G. One-Kennobi

    first of all, your comments on van-damme made me laugh my balls off.that being said, how dare you compare van-damme to De Niro ??? van-damme is no doubt the second worst actor in the entire world ( carrot-top being the worst). And are you blind badboybrom or what? van-dammes like forty five years old. if watching spidey do his thing in a wheel chair is what you want to see, than i guess he'd do an all right job. And this is dumbest point you made "if arnold got the bat suit, why can't van damme have the spidey suit?" Are you the only person in the world that slept through batman and robin? or did you just forget how incredibly terrible that quote, unquote movie was? can you honestly see a forty something austrian or whatever the fuck van-damme is playing a 17 year-old kid from the Brooklyn area of New York?????? Come on man!!!!!!!!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:15 p.m. CST

    A cast that you ALL will like for Spidey!

    by Spillennium

    Spidey/ Peter Paker as you know is Tobey Macguire. How about this? Norman Osborne/ Goblin... Nic Cage Harry Osborne... Jason Lee or Wes Bentley Doc Ock... Liam Neeson Uncle Ben... Jason Robards Robbie... Morgan Freedman of Sam Jackson (with a head of hair) JJJ... Ed Harris (like he was in the Rock) M.J.... Nikki Cox from the "Norm" Show. Flash Thompson... Vince Vaughn or Matthew Lillard More than half these people should be pretty cheap to cast. The bigger talent is a must to draw the crowd and make the character.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:15 p.m. CST


    by O.G. One-Kennobi

    first of all, your comments on van-damme made me laugh my balls off.that being said, how dare you compare van-damme to De Niro ??? van-damme is no doubt the second worst actor in the entire world ( carrot-top being the worst). And are you blind badboybrom or what? van-dammes like forty five years old. if watching spidey do his thing in a wheel chair is what you want to see, than i guess he'd do an all right job. And this is dumbest point you made "if arnold got the bat suit, why can't van damme have the spidey suit?" Are you the only person in the world that slept through batman and robin? or did you just forget how incredibly terrible that quote, unquote movie was? can you honestly see a forty something austrian or whatever the fuck van-damme is playing a 17 year-old kid from the Brooklyn area of New York?????? Come on man!!!!!!!!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:21 p.m. CST


    by Raddik

    OK you dumb fucks listen up cuz I'm only going to say this once. No one gives a duck's shit about who you think should be cast for what part. Ultimately, it will be the producers choice and ,no, Raimi does not read these talkbacks and base his decision on what you sorry fucks feel should be right for the part. I can't believe that a bunch of geeks could possibly contemplate that they could have any influence on the casting process. Also, if you have already judged this movie then you are bigger mule turd then the rest. How do you know that this movie sucks when it hasn't been released. You must be Nostofuckindomas. On opening night, don't be surpised if during the middle of the film (while you're busy ENJOYING it!) someone suddenly gets up in front of you and starts pummeling your face. That will be me! Try seeing the rest of the movie with a busted lip and your eyes bruised shut. And another thing; It wouldn't hurt to go back and reread your posts, you dyslexic fucks. Grammar can be overlooked, but at least make an attempt to proof-read correct any mispellings. I thoughts geeks were supposed to be educated?!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Spidey casting

    by sundown

    Elton John or Mike Myers as Doctor Octavious...Yikes! That sounds like the old Batman route. Overpriced "star" actors hamming it up...that is the fear with Cage but with Face Off I really would like to see him as a villian. He isn't too old its just that in hollywood everyone plays someone 10 years younger...the guy is pushin 40 (36) he could have a 16 year old son and it is easier to go older than younger...(Russel Crowe Insider) I think he could physically and believably pull it off...but Spacey would be better to capture the XMEN thespian aspect that gave it crediblity. Tobey...whatever...we'll see. Organic still sucks but we'll see. Tea Leoni Alicia Witt and Claire Danes???What the hell they couldnt pass for 16 10 years ago...we need kids like Kirsten Dunst as Gwen...MJ should be an unknown and they really need to downplay the bitch and expand on her home life it was the only relevant thing in Camerons horrid scriptment...Stickler from American Pie as Flash as comedy relief would be perfect (he ceases to be a threat after act I and enter the villians) Platt as DOC OC could work but I would look for a better actor with more presence. Maybe a Tom Sizemore as Doc Oc with Kevin Spacey as the Goblin. I would include Mathew Liliard as Harry Osbourne cause he would make a kick ass Goblin to haunt spidey in the future. Getting the better known actress like Dunst for Gwen will make it all the more poignant when she buys the farm. The key has to be the actors and their performance...Batmanisms cant be allowed. They also obviously need a more solid script but hope springs eternal and maybe they'll get someone who knows spidey like Hayter new Xmen...either way this sounds much better than that Camneron mess which had Spidey KILLING!!! thats my 2 cents and as Stephen Wright said how come its a penny for your thoughts but everyone wants to put there 2 cents in...someone is getting screwed!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Live by the sword...LSD200

    by toshiba

    Die by the sword. "Grammar can be overlooked, but at least make an attempt to proof-read correct any mispellings. I thoughts geeks were supposed to be educated?!" AHEM. Ain't it cool?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:48 p.m. CST

    James Woods!

    by Barry Stowles

    Never thought about him until now, but, yeah, I can see him as the Goblin, or definitely Spacey. The GG's origin in this script is pretty much the same as the cartoon, but I don't know about the comics. Oh, and the general public doesn't give a shit about whether the webshooters are organic or not (and if one more person makes the "hilarious" comment that they should come out off his ass...). Nor do they really care about the costume, most of them probably think it IS red and black (I did until a couple of years ago). I predict Venom for the sequel, with loads of

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:51 p.m. CST

    And another thing...

    by Barry Stowles

    That Van Damme post was a JOKE, guys!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 1:57 p.m. CST


    by Raddik

    We would like to correct an error that was made on a recent post. The correction should read,"Grammar can be overlooked, but at least make an attempt to proof-read and correct any mispellings." We apologize for any inconvenience this might have caused and have a nice day. :)

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Organic shooters

    by cnote2000

    I'm all for organic web-shooters. I've thought about it and how stupid did the old 70's show costume look with the web cartridges on the outside of the costume? Now think about how stupid it would look for Spidey to be swinging around with these buldging web-shooters looking like weights under his outfit. COme to think of it, why didn't you ever see the web-shooters buldging out from under the costume in the comic-book?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:08 p.m. CST


    by The Kid

    Maguire definitely looks like a real-life Parker. Oh, and I haven't seen High Fidelity, but what exactly was Rosenberg's capacity? Did he write the original draft, rewrite it? It's a little confusing to go from CONAIR to HiFi to GI60S.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:10 p.m. CST

    this movie WILL blow: then I will bow chunks

    by Maynard

    I'm sorry, but this movie is gonna bite. What the hell are spinnerettes anyway? I never fucking heard of them. As for slits in Peter Parker's wrists, why? Is it to surprise us with special effect? Give me a break!!! It's most likely that the whole slit thing is a time-waster so plot-development will suffer. He uses web cartridges!! That's final. If you fuck around with the most basic aspects of a classic character, you are going to be left with the T.V. version of the incredible hulk, or both of those really shitty versions of Captain America. Why would Raimi want to ad organic slits for his webs? why is he adamant on wreckng an already fleshed out character? If this most basic thing has changed, then I bet any money that both the Green Goblin and Doc Ock will be completely different. Remember, Raimi, as good as he is (?) is no Bryan Singer. Singer at least knows how to make changes that actually need to be done. To tell you the truth, I think Raimi is out to beat Roger Corman or Troma in acts of corniness. Come on, keep Cameron's script and petition to find another director. Preferably someone who has at least read some of the comic. Imagine wolverine with a gun instead of his claws. Gee, I think that would make a huge impact don't you? All im saying is if the fans bitch about it, why change it? Is it because it will be too much money to build actual web-shooters?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:20 p.m. CST

    You know I never realized

    by TaeDawg

    As I look at that picture of Tobey, I think to myself, "Funny, I never realized Peter Parker was a Bitch". Good Job Raimi, you are quickly pulling a Schumacher. -Tae

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:46 p.m. CST


    by Helos

    I disagree with you on how organic webshooters will impact plot developement. As a Biochemist, I can tell you how difficult it would be to design a web-fluid with the characteristics described in the comic books. The person who did so would have a chemical formula worth tens of millions of dollars. Peter's smart....if he had such an invention, he would market it and erase all of Aunt May's money problems. The comics never address this, but apparently the script writers have recognized this problem. By having the web-fluid be organic in nature (produced by Peter's own body), it would take years of expensive and extensive testing to determine the exact chemical nature of the fluid. This would require Peter to front a considerable amount of money and then be a ginnea-pig. No fun. By having Peter invent web-shooters that control the direction and flow of his natural web-fluid, we can still see he's a genius, but without the means to make tons of money.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:52 p.m. CST

    They ARE mechanical webshooters!

    by Helos

    You know, I just realized this....he does have mechanical webshooters. All Peter does is produce the web-fluid, but without a means to control the direction and flow of the fluid. So he builds a device capable of doing just that....webshooting. Peter has organic web-fluid AND mechanical webshooters. He has NO organic webshooters. Just a thought.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:53 p.m. CST

    this Maguire is a fucking dwarf...Spider man on wheels

    by makavelious

    Bunch of assholes.....

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 2:54 p.m. CST

    I'm sick of all the TalkBackers who say these TalkBacks sound li

    by superninja

    What a mouthful, but stop generalizing. Sure, there are some people who are whining about age and costuming...But there are quite a few of us here who are NOT complaining about minor changes -- we see problems with the story structure (as presented above, granted), CHARACTERIZATION (a biggie for quite a few of us, if you've paid attention), and frivolous rewrites of classic characters. Raimi has yet to explain why he believes these changes are so wonderful, and why the audience will love them as much as he does. This is a man who claims to be a Spider-Man fan, but what he's saying in interviews is FRIGHTENINGLY unlike any Peter Parker I've known. I do have a problem with making Obsorn's transformation into the Goblin due to gas. Why? Because the fact that this guy dresses up like a night terror is profoundly more psychological than having his mind warped by some fumes!!! The guy is messed up, folks! He's NUTZ. Why do we ALWAYS have to have a catalyst/scientific reason for villain looniness? Why can't they just be f---ed up? Obsorn has a split personality - simple. As for tossing Doc Ock in there -- what's the point? It's obvious he's CGI window dressing. You should all expect more from "the man who gave us A Simple Plan", Raimi-ites. Doc Ock is not a secondary villain. Use another henchman if its strictly visual -- Sandman, Elektro, the Whizzer (just kidding!) etc.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Okay, okay, here's my 2 cents...

    by Ardee-El

    I've tried to keep silent, laughing to myself at the various posters' grammar, spelling and profanity, but I was overcome with the obvious and . . . well, let me get the mechanical vs biological out of the way first. One approach is no more logical or "scientific" than the other. Mechanical is traditional; biological is revisionist. Mechanical showcases Parker's science chops; biological focuses on how he's now different. Both concepts are open to derision: Mechanical, how a high school student could come up with a formula for creating hyper-filaments (even one that dissolves in an hour or so); biological, well, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that spiders don't shoot webbing out their appendages, or the unfortunate similarities to ejaculate. The mechanical approach can create suspense if it's established his supply of webbing isn't infinite, as well as good old mechanical failure; the biological approach leaves open the question of leaving behind trace material with Parker's enhanced DNA imprint. So as far as I can see, it's largely a matter of taste and the writers' overall approach to plot. That being said, I still find myself opting for the mechanical approach. I'll admit it; I'm a traditionalist. Mechanical is what I know, what I grew up on. Sure, it was a sign Parker was embracing his Spider-Man identity (as opposed to yet another indication that he was no longer wholly human), and it begged credulity that a high school senior could come up with such a formula. (Though if I were writing the script, he would still get his powers at a science fare, one which he was attending trying to peddle his hyper-filament formula -- and getting laughed out of the room when they found out that it continued to catalyze in oxygen until it completely desiccated and granulated. Of course, I would also write in a cameo for the scientist who eventually became the Lizard, but that's just me.) But I agree whole-heartedly with the poster who pointed out that a person's first reaction to dripping a suspicious fluid from new slits in one wrists isn't likely to be the creation of nozzles, but a visit to your local doctor. And the whole biological thing moves it too close to the whole Brundlefly thing. And I have to agree with another poster who likened it to putting a mask on Superman; the very fact that it's become such a hot-button issue means that a great many people care. Next order of business: As far as casting, I'm behind Tobey Maguire 100%. Put a pair of large, rimless glasses on him, and he's as damn near to Peter Parker as we're going to get. Sure, William H. Macey might be the better actor, but R. Lee Ermey is J. Jonah Jameson in the flesh -- you'll want to see Parker/Spider-Man screw with this guy every chance he gets. Larry Drake as Doc Ock is an inspired thought! (The actor I always pictured playing Doc Ock when I was growing up was Thayer David, which pretty much dates me.) The Green Goblin is a harder choice -- both James Woods and Willem Dafoe would be good, but neither one of them give you that "separated-at-birth" feeling when you think of them playing the character. Now then, after I've rambled on this long, I can finally get to the thought that pushed me over the edge and made me actually write: Parker's love life. Maguire is (or shortly will be) signed for three movies. Raimi should approach this as a trilogy and plan ahead accordingly. Parker's eyes (and hormones) should be directed toward Betty Brandt in the first one, with the attraction to Gwen (and rivalry with Flash) occupying a subplot; Gwen taking center stage in the second movie (after Betty marries someone else when Parker gets roughed up "taking pictures"); and Mary Jane -- who Aunt May has been mentioning all along -- appearing only as a cameo in the last few moments of the second movie and taking center stage for the third. Is this not ridiculously obvious? A much tougher sell would be to have only one villain per movie, and set up the next villain in the current movie, i.e., Doc Ock attacking Osborn in this movie, but Osborn doesn't become the Green Goblin until the next movie. (I know, I know, this is hell to sell to studios because they need to maximize those damn action figures! One is grateful the producers of the James Bond franchise never fell into this trap.) Okay, all that's out of my system. I'll leave you with just one thought for a sequel: Patrick Stewart as the Vulture.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:28 p.m. CST

    casting ideas... seriously...

    by abcdefz

    The idea, I think, is to get good actors and accurately reflect the issue of ages (as one poster pointed out, the Green Goblin is Parker's friend's father; that means at least forty but probably older). In our villain's cases, I went quite a bit older, but it would be really interesting, especially if Raimi is going for a sort of odd authenticity (embarassed Peter walking around with his cuffs pulled down, etc.). These guys are brilliant, esteemed scientists in think tanks, not internet start-up companies, so it would make sense for them to be older and add something interesting, too. So here we go... Aunt May Frances Sternhagen Uncle Ben John Mahoney Green Goblin Ben Kingsley Doc Ock Ed Harris J.Jonah Jameson Harvey Keitel Robbie Robertson Joe Morton Mary Jane Natalie Portman (?)

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:28 p.m. CST


    by TaeDawg

    Please, look at the above picture of McGuire (sp?). He looks nothing like Peter Parker. At all. And, to boot, I think he's a severley overrated actor. The only thing he ever did well was Screech on SNL.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Ben Kingley as the Vulture.

    by superninja

    No way Stewart will hop on a third franchise. Tom Selleck as Kraven.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Sam Raimi's Organic Spider-Man Extravaganza!

    by superninja

    That should be the title of the film. Norman Osborn wearing a mask?! HELL NO! He's organic. Peter Parker creating his webshooters to augment his amazing powers (remember, it was called the Amazing Spider-Man, not the Freak Show Spider-Man)? HELL NO! Raimi is right. There is no way we'd believe a kid can invent webshooters when we have an overwieght scientist with eight mechanical tentacles grafted to his body. Impossible!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Re: SDG

    by Dave_F

    Actually, Cameron has an interesting approach to Parker coming to terms with his powers. There's definitely an initial reaction of fear, but slowly Pete starts to see the beneficial side of his powers. The day following the bite, for instance, he notices that his nearsightedness has been cured by the strange sickness affecting him. I thought that was a really nice touch. Even something as small as that would certainly seem GREAT as a teenager. Peter also has an interesting series of dreams revolving around spiders and weblike imagery - on the first night after he's bitten, they're nightmarish and predatory; later, the web imagery becomes graceful, his movements in the dream, balletic. The initial discovery of the webshooter wrist-slits *is* made out to be horrifying, but Peter's reaction is appropriate - he freaks out and simply runs in a blind panic. You suggest he'd seek medical attention - well, he probably would, but a truck almost hits him (classic Spidey moment), and he instinctively vaults 20 feet into the air and sticks to a wall. This is the scene where he first realizes that his physical prowess has been greatly increased, and it counteracts his horror at the webshooters. Shortly after that...well, here's a bit from the script: "What is going on? His body is changing. Where will it stop? He tests his arms and legs, feeling the strange energy pulsing through his muscles. SEVERAL SCENES FOLLOW, of Peter realizing his new physical powers...strength and agility. His horror begins to turn to exhilaration as he finds himself capable of things he never dreamed of. He finds his skinny body suddenly more muscular, man-like. But beyond that he has inhuman power in his muscles...he picks up the back end of a small car by its bumper. Is he dreaming?" As you can see, the scary/gross elements are quickly dispatched. And there's a pretty well-written scene of Parker learning to use the bio-webshooters shortly thereafter. Hmm. I think I've inadvertantly countered the argument that organic webbing will necessarily prevent Spidey from becoming an egotistical hero. Shit. Didn't mean to, but today is Devil's Advocate day, and it's a fact that Cameron's treatment pulls it off. Spidey still becomes the cocky guy we know and love, and the organic nature of the webshooters is all but *irrelevant* after those initial gross, sexually suggestive scenes. I still say they should go, but I have to acknowledge that the film could theoretically survive them. Now Raimi may be *too* focused on the "freak" side of things, but let's keep a little perspective. Check out Cameron's treatment and let me know what you think. It runs about 40 pages - too much to read on a monitor, maybe, but worth wasting a few minutes printing out.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:46 p.m. CST

    no no NO!

    by Reverendz

    The more I find out about this film, the less I am inclined to shell out $$$ for it. Osborn did NOT become the freaking Green Goblin because of some silly gas! It's stupid and pointless. One of the things I HATE about the Batman movies is that they ALWAYS feel compelled to give you the villains origin. WHY? The movie isn't called The Green Goblin (or in Batman's case the Joker). The movie is called Spiderman. I don't care and don't need to see why Osborn became the Green goblin, he's nuts, that's all there is to it. Why not have him already making news and doing crimes BEFORE Parker even becomes Spiderman. As to the treatment of Parker it's wrong wrong WRONG! One of the earlier talkbackers, i think it was helos, was saying he/she is a biochemist and finds it hard to accept that Parker could come up with such an amazing solution as web fluid. HELLO MCFLY!! IS ANY ONE HOME??? Are you trying to say that it's plausible that some shmuck gets bitten by a hybrid "super spider" and develops spider powers? You cannot apply logic to one of his powers without appying it to all, and once you do that, the whole thing becomes null and void seeing as NONE of this is possible or realistic. So why are they even trying to make it so? It's fucking pointless. The fact that Parker is part of a group: first mistake, this should be something he does on this own---showing his geekiness. Also, why bother making Parker Spiderman at all if all his powers come from the spider bite? ANYONE could be spider man according to that logic. This whole mechanical/organic hybrid thing is just so stupid. It doesn't make sense to alter the character just to make it seem more "plausible" which it's not. Anyone who thinks that oozing slits in your arms is more plausible than building a mechanical web device is nuts!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 3:58 p.m. CST

    PESCI FOR OCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by No.6


  • Aug. 1, 2000, 4:05 p.m. CST

    It's Cameron-ific!

    by superninja

    But since today is Backwards Day, Cormy, I'm sure you get my drift. There are some cool things in the Cameron treatment. I really liked the bookends, and I think there were a couple of other things in there, but they're not memorable enough to repeat here.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 4:25 p.m. CST

    The most *fun* cast would be...

    by FBuxton

    Jason Schwartzman as Spidey, Bruce Campbell as Green Goblin, and ELTON JOHN as Doctor Octopus...

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 4:58 p.m. CST

    Not quite perfection yet

    by Terry_1978

    I do agree that some of the script needs to be worked out more. Having Dr. Octopus just wanting revenge on the green goblin isn't too compelling. The villain's goals have to be more on the complex level...they think they're doing what's in their best interests, yet it's totally destructive to everyone else around them. They can't just be wreaking havoc for no reason. And hopefully they'll change M.J's persona a little if what I hear about her is true. She's a witty character, but she's never mean spirited.....gotta have that balance..she can't be too far to the left or too far to the right. The mechanical webshooter thing isn't too bad.....I guess since Koepp decided to please everyone and combine organic and mechanics, people are still gonna complain about them...go figure. As far as casting, let the villains be slightly unknown actors who just favor the comic characters the best. They already have Maguire who's gonna become a huger name after this thing comes out.....I don't need to see on a movie poster.....Nicolas Cage, Arnold Schwartzenegger, Tobey Maguire...SPIDER-MAN. Just give us a nice red and blue background with webbing with the words Spider-Man.....that's all we need.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Here's What I'd Do (So Who Gives A Crap?)

    by Buzz Maverik

    Nicolas Cage, you're too young to be the Goblin. You've played older before, but you're not right for the Goblin. However, I would cast you as Dr. Octopus. Now, I know in the comics that Doc Ock was a middle aged guy, but the recent X-Men movie (anybody out there see it yet?) changed a lot of the character's ages around and it worked fine because they kept the important things about the characters in tact. So you play a mid-30s Doc Ock. It'll be a blast. I would cast Michael Keaton as the Green Goblin. He's old enough to have a son in high school or preferrably college, but is a powerhouse of a human being and can play a great maniac (I always thought Keaton should have been the Joker, Alec Baldwin should have been Batman, Geena Davis should have been Vicki Vail, and just so Tim Burton could have reunited his entire Beetlejuice cast, Winona Ryder could have played Frank Miller's Robin, Carrie Kelly). I hope they have both Gwen and MJ, my two favorite Spidey girlfriends. Somebody said Julia Stiles for Gwen and somebody else said Tara Reid, and they'd both be perfect. MJ is a very important role. Maybe Jordana Brewster (I think her name is, with a red tint) or some unknown who can steal the movie. The writing for this character is important. Here's what you do, Raimi and producer guys: at least for the Mary Jane scenes, you get the script away from Rosenberg (which I recommend anyway: hire Shane Black for most of it) and you have Carrie Fisher write all the MJ scenes, especially her dialogue.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 6:18 p.m. CST

    spidey talkback

    by CRM114

    You guys are all aware that 95% of you should be seperated for life from movie cameras and screenplay programs by steel bars and rabid wolves, right?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 6:27 p.m. CST

    RE: DarthSlater

    by bo_d75

    I completely agree with everything you had to say. Give Brucie that damned Eddie Brock cameo already. I am actually content with the decision of the Tobey kid...I've thought he was alright since I saw Pleasantville...that's all for now! Go Sami!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Later. D>

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 6:40 p.m. CST

    Am I The Only One Not Fooled By This Bio/Mechanical Shooter Idea

    by Cowblaster

    I mean, if he's gonna have mechanical webshooters ANYWAY, why not open the flood-gates and please every Spider-Man fan on the planet by just having him invent the web-fluid too? WHY? What's the point in organics now? The main arrgument against mechanical webshooters was that the shooters themselves were impractical. Now, they're there. . . whether we'll see them on his costume or not, he'll still have 'em. Why not just take it a step further and have him mix-up the web formula? Come on, Raimi, you're so close to winning me over with this completley! If you take away the organic aspect of Parker's web-shooters completley, I'll drag people off the streets by their hair to make them watch your Spider-Man movie! You'll win-over MILLIONS of hard-core Spider-Man fans, even the ones who don't like the new costume or Tobey Maguire! PLEASE, just make take this one last step!!! I'M BEGGING YOU!!!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 6:50 p.m. CST

    The PERFECT Mary Jane Watson!

    by superhero

    OK, listen up! I DO NOT KNOW HER NAME! But the girl in the early seasons of Party of Five who was Scott Wolf's roomate. The one who he cheated on Jennifer Love with? Does ANYONE know who she is? She completely looks the part! It's like someone took MJ off the page and put her on TV! Plus she ain't done sh!t since! She'll come REAL cheap! Sony, go out and get her! If it was gonna be Gwen Mena Suvari (Sp?) from American Beauty would kick ass! Hell she could even make an OK Mary Jane!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 7:05 p.m. CST

    Lotta spider fans here

    by Vern

    Hey is it just me or are there about ten hundred thousand people writing about the spiderman? jesus harry I think you boys hit a nerve here. I am going to look into buying, hope it's not taken yet.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 7:17 p.m. CST

    Hamill looks cool as the Goblin! I have proof:

    by superninja Okay...not REALLY, but still. Mark Hamill for Green Goblin!

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 7:39 p.m. CST

    by elrobbo

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 7:40 p.m. CST

    Hey... a web shooter compromise!!!

    by iamdeadfish

    Make him have both! He get's an organic web slinger on one wrist but just to even things out he builds one for the other! -=- I personally don't care one way or the other but this would be funny. :)

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 7:48 p.m. CST

    MJ should just be a blurry face in the neighbour's window

    by elrobbo

    In my perfect world, Peter's "romantic interest" in the first movie would be Liz Allen (who dates him to make Flash jealous), in the second movie it'd be Betty Brant (but the older woman thing doesn't work out), then Gwen Stacey, and after she's dead, Mary-Jane. But that'll never happen.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 7:56 p.m. CST

    Throw in some casting ideas . . .

    by Hellpop

    J.J.J. can go a lot of ways: R. Lee Emrey, William H. Macy, but I wouldn't mind seeing Dan Hedaya (Blood Simple), for Green Goblin, Nick Cage really wouldn't be that bad, but I've kind of liked the idea of Raimi-alum Liam Neeson . . maybe? Doc Ock, kind of a tough one here I think, who ever said Vincent D'Onofrio, that sounds pretty good actually, Oliver Platt? . more Raimi-alum: Billy Bob go highclass: Anthony Hopkins Gwen Stacy, there are a lot of teenage (pseudo-teenage) actresses for this one, Julia Stiles, Mena Suvari, Dominique Swain, Reese Witherspoon, hell they could tap some other WB chick for it if they had too, other side of the coin MJ, I only see a few possibilities (and I vote NO to Nikki Cox) Alicia Witt would work or Laura Prepon (70's show) I don't get the feeling anyone too great is gonna be tapped for the minor roles . .Harry? anyone . . .Flash? who cares . . . Aunt May? I'm sure there are enough nice old lady actors capable for that one . . . Uncle Ben? again, they could find almost anyone . . . in the end I think the only thing I really care about is haveing Gwen instead of MJ for the 1st installment of the webcrawler, otherwise you lose a great story that won't be able to be told again after Peter hooks up with MJ. . .

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 8:01 p.m. CST


    by pfloyd

    Today I saw a trailer on Disney for a movie called 'The Thirteenth Year'. It is about a boy who gets discovered on a boating trip and 13 years later he starts to mutate into a mermaid. Complete with fins growing on his wrist that he is embarrased of, (he even hides them in the sand at the beach) like the infamous organic issue. So, their you have it; Raimi's vision is no more unquie than some crappy film on the Disney channel. Go with the original Raimi, no one will question your ability.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 8:16 p.m. CST

    Ahhh choices to make

    by 2GOLD

    Well let me see here Spiderman: Tobey M. hmmm, whatever. Guess that means Spiderman is now SUPERDWEEB!!! Great, that's one. Doc Ock: List of suggestions Kevin Spacey(what???) Nick Cage (I'm getting sick) Bruce Campbell(put the whiskey down now!) So, does anyone have any good suggestions??? No, well lets move on Goblin: Bruce Campbell(will never see this part and if he does get cast as Goblin then I'll run onto the NJ turnpike in a sumo outfit, eating a roasted kitten singing "I'm a little teapot" while dancing like N'Sync) After careful consideration about this project and the direction that its moving in, I'm just glad that it's not FF or as Avi Avad says "The biggest sitcom of all-time" Can we please start X-Men 2 now?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 8:16 p.m. CST

    First-time post (be nice?)

    by thebroz69

    Okay, I've been surfing these talkbacks for God-only-knows how long, and there's finally a topic that I have strong feelings for (strong enough for me to sign up and give my email to yet another server, anyway). First off, I totally agree with the casting of Tobey as Peter Parker (for reference: Tobey plays Peter, Peter plays Spiderman, that's how it should be) The second and slightly less-important thing is this: the webshooters. They should be mechanical. No ifs ands or buts about it. Peter is a mechanical genius who designed these things, and invented the web fluid (I remember reading some comic a while back where he tried to sell the fluid, but they wouldn't buy it cause it dissolved too quick)The primary thing to remember is that little kids WANT to be Spiderman (at least the comic version)If you start giving him freaky wrist-slits or whatever, then the same little kids will suddenly be afraid. We're already suspending a bunch of disbelief as to the effects of radioactive spider bits, so let's suspend a bit more and give him what the fans are clamoring for. I only hope that a) the filmmakers realize this and b) that this post doesn't get lost in the verbal penis jousts that sometimes characterizes these talkbacks.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 8:57 p.m. CST

    To the unbelievers:

    by Redwood

    The guy who was complaining about everything, saying the movie will blow chunks? Listen, first, don't say 'stick with Cameron's script.' Although it kept true with Parker characterization, it would have sucked as a movie, I read it. And anyway, Cameron is the one who thought of organic webshooters in the first place! You should be out hunting HIS head! And about everyone who complains about screenwriters not sticking to comic tradition: as a writer, a person who thinks of creative situations, I cannot IMAGINE simply copying everything down from the comics to the script. These are people with IMAGINATIONS working on this movie, it is HUMAN NATURE to create new things! If you truly wanted a true comic book movie, you'd have a bunch of white-collar corporates making the film. I certainly wouldn't go see a comic-book movie that was 100% true to the source. If it doesn't bring anything NEW to Spidey world, thana what's the point in making the movie? It's an interpretation, people. Not Holy Writ. And as for me, I am PUMPED about this movie, as of late. news. I mean, Macy's Thanksgiving Parade? Priceless, this will make a CLASSIC and memorable seen that X-Men was somehow lacking. Green Goblin will be awesome. Tobey Maguire? NO problem here, doesn't matter what he looks like, he's an actor. He gets payed to transform himself into another character. These people have talent, trust in them. And I'm likin' the organic AND mechanical thing, gives the best of both worlds. Can't waite until November 2001, I hope they pull a BATMAN RETURNS and set it at Christmas time. Oh--- and it's spelled, "MISSPELLED".

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:10 p.m. CST

    The never ending pissing and moaning...

    by Veidt

    Regarding the organic webshooters has already gone beyond the tired and pathetic stage and well into total douchebag psychosis (I can't believe someone actually said they're a bad idea because it'd make kids scared (!) to be Spider-Man. Umm...I don't think so.). The script's melding of both organic and mechanical is perfect - it removes the credulity issue of the web fluid yet illustrates Parker's mechanical ingenuity. To invent mechanical devices to regulate the flow of his webbing I can buy - the invention of web fluid, no. Just try and imagine a scene where they actually have to show him making the web fluid. Just what goes into it? Has anyone ever thought about that? In a movie, you'd have to. So is it just a lot of glue? Some super-adhesive? Why would it ever shoot out in strands? And why would it ever look like webbing? Try and shoot a glue gun around sometime and see if it resembles anything you can swing off of. Some things can only be found in nature and spider-webbing is one of them. Yes, it's pretty unlikely that anyone's going to be granted the powers of a spider in the first place but at least that can have its own science fictiony logic to it. Raimi's going in the right direction with this. And by the way, The Green Goblin WAS created with an explosion in his lab that covered him in a green gas. But instead of physically changing, he became inspired by - uh, I guess the greeness of the explosion - to don the guise of a Green Goblin (sure, wouldn't anybody?). It's one of the dumbest origins to a great villain ever so I think the idea of him physically transforming is an improvement.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Casting ....

    by Beige Babapapa

    Walken as JJJ, Willem Defoe as GG, Jason Alexander as doc Ock, Jennifer Love Hewit as MJ ....

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Personal Castin' (Campbell's ultimate role)

    by BurninBullwinkle

    I think you people are overlooking the obvious character Bruce Campbell should play in Spideyman. How about Peter's TV showing a news story on The Punisher? Great role for Campbell in a future installment, cameo that would drive Evil Dead and Marvel fans crazy, and it reeks of showing an expanded Marvel universe where Parker ain't the only vigilante out there. As for JJJ, well, Dennis Farrina is so perfect I'm speachless. Charlton Heston as Unca Ben? Sir, I take my hat off to you, and no, it isn't so far fetched. Remember his appearance in Wayne's World 2? Mary Jane; well Nikki Cox would be cool, but her uber-babeness has gone down since she started Norm. How about Rachel Leigh Cook with a dye job? Or Jennifer Sky? You know, the only reason at all to turn into the bad, bad, horrible, horrible, nasty-ass Cleopatra 2525? Or, goin' really out on a limb, that Franke-girl from Run Lola Run? Aunt May should be the grandma from Happy Gilmore, complete with Gene Simmons mask ;)!). Doc Oc played by Laurence Fishburne? If you're gonna cast someone against the comic, this should be it. Mark Hamil would make a great Goblin. Actually, I've been rooting for him to play the Joker if they start the Batman franchise over again, so maybe I don't want him there. Yeah, Kevin Spacey, that's the ticket.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 9:54 p.m. CST


    by Raddik

    I guess there are some educated people among you dumb fucks. Yes, Redwood and Toshiba found the two grammar and spelling errors on my post. Now let's see if you can detect any errors on this post. BTW guys, if you can you read between the lines of my fingers as well as you have read in my post, what you discover is that I am holding up one finger. Can you tell me which one?

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 10:16 p.m. CST

    It's only a movie

    by iamethanhunt

    Who in the hell cares. Everytime a comic movie comes out you all say it sucks. Everytime any news about it comes out about a million different talk back post subject lines say: OKAY THIS MOVIE WILL SUCK!! Boo fucking hoo. I thought all this whining and bitching was reserved for Episode II sites. NO SPIDER-MAN MOVIE WILL EVER BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU! I read Spider-Man all up until I left for college and still love the idea of a Spider-Man movie. When they showed the concept drawings of Spidey without the McFarlane style eyes I thought to myself, "well that sucks" but then I got over it and went the fuck to work. I always digged the mechanical web shooters, but it wasn't the end of the world. And when I found out they were going to be organic I once again said to myself, "Ethan, that sucks", but then I realized that I HADN'T lost my best friend and that NOBODY had taken my birthday away, and my Cheerios were still 100% piss free. I suggest you do the same. Go to a bar, go get laid, go rub one off, whatever makes you feel better. Just realize at the end of the day your rent is still do whether or not Spider-Man has organic webshooters or big McFarlane eyes. Go enjoy the movie and sleep tight tonight, Sam Raimi is awake.

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 10:21 p.m. CST

    Go to Please.

    by user id indeed!

    There, I said it. No beating around the metaphorical bush,I just came right out with it. I am writing features and reviews for, and I want you to go there. It's as simple as that. DON'T... MAKE... ME... HURT... YOU. I.. AM... NOT... ANGRY. I DO GET ANGRY, BUT I'M NOT RIGHT NOW. Let's KEEP it that way. I have a very lovely new aluminum bat, and I REEEALLY don't want to get it all dented. It's a nice bat, i'n it? You don't want this BAT... to get SCUFFED... do you??? There's a good TalkBacker. This has been a Plug from User ID Indeed! You've been warned.

  • I like the idea of Doc Octopus vs Green Goblin. Villains don't always work together to get rid of the hero, most of the time they figth each other because they whant to be the one who'll kill the hero. So that's a nice touch and it works. I think the Harry and the Love triangle should have been keept for the second movie since there is so much to show about Spider-man that I don't see how they can fit all this in one movie without lossing some great stuff. The same goes for Mary Jane. In this one they should concentrate on Peter becoming Spidey vs JJJ, vs Dock Octopus and you could introduce Harry and Gween near the end when Peter actually goes to college, and show how they (Harry & Gween) first thauth tha Peter was a snoob when he really was worrying way to much about his sick aunt. End the movie when Norman/Goblin loses his memory when he discovers who Spidey really his and set-up the story for de second chapter where you finally introduce Marie Jane, Peter becomes pal with Harry, develop the love story with Gween, now you could show Harry's problems and the return of the Green Goblin where Gweens Death follows. And I'd actually end the second film with a 30 to 45 minute prologue in the future where Peter's maried to MJ and where Harry's the Goblin (maried and with his child) and where at the end, Harry dies saving his old friend. Close the movie with a picture of Peter and Harry when they were best buds... Like in the book "Spider-man vs Green Goblin" that gather up the best comix of there confrontations. Now I got little carried away but that's simply because it's too good a story that I'm afraid there going to sum-it up to make it fit in one movie and that's bad. But Sam Raimi's a good man and I'm sure He'll do a good job. Now just get rid of the stupid Organic Webshooters...

  • Aug. 1, 2000, 11:20 p.m. CST

    the flavor of the last few talkbacks:

    by Reverendz

    *ahem* (this is called parody). I can't believe you losers would get your panties in a wad about some stupid comic book movie. I mean, it's a comic, the world will still turn, gas will continue to rise and this whole organic/mechanical thing borders on a obsessive neurosis. Now, be a good little boy and SMILE when Hollywood gives you another big shit sandwich to take a bite out of because really, who ever told you that you had the right to actually care what kind of pap (posing as entertainment) you consume. Just be happy that the corporate machine churns out mindless bullshit for you. so get a life, get laid, take a walk and go back to sleep you losers. (end parody). *a note to talk backers who complain about complaining: if you don't like it, don't read it, that simple. Meanwhile the world spins on and some of us obsessive fanboys will never quite swallow the idea that organic webshooters actually improves the characterization. :-P

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 1:02 a.m. CST

    kudos to Veidt for saying what I wanted to say

    by cold lazarus

    Veidt nailed the argument for the organic web shooters--they just aren't realistic enough. Raimi, like Singer before him, understands the essence of Marvel Comics: there has to be enough of a logical grounding in the real world for any movie featuring Marvel characters to work. In the comics you can get away with a high-schooler inventing a super-adhesive that can be both as strong as steel cable or as viscuous as paste AND yet leave no trace after an hour. But on film it would be too fantastic. If Peter was that resourceful with his intellect he wouldn't need super-powers. He could invent them. The organic explanation, as Veidt says, has its own science-fiction logic that lets you get away with the fantasy. Even Stan Lee knew this. Okay, Stan Lee CREATED the mechanical web-shooters, you say. Yeah, but he also called Jean Grey "Marvel Girl". Some things that worked on cheap newsprint in 1963 will not work in a film today. The general public is too sophisticated. They'd laugh at the all-purpose mechanical shooters. As to the other argument that organic web shooters subvert Peter's character--I don't buy it. Yeah, Peter used Spidey to realize his potential, but I remember many a time in the Lee-Ditko era when Peter would walk off into the sunset moping over his powers being a curse. They were ALWAYS a mixed blessing and often did as much harm--at least in terms of Peter's personal life--as they did good. To those who are complaining about Tobey=Spidergeek, or that Raimi will make Peter a self-absorbed, angst-ridden teen freak: have you ever READ the Lee-Ditko comics? (Mind you, not the MacFarlane revisionist "I get to sleep with a supermodel" Parker, but the original timid Peter of Amazing Fantasy #15.) Peter Parker was the FIRST pop-culture angster! Peter WAS a geek, but because we were in his head, we saw that he had a humanity that transcended the geek stereotypes. As far as Raimi milking the "adolescent freak" angle: he's not Tim Burton! All you have to do is read Raimi's descriptions of Spidey's web-swinging to know that he understands the liberating aspects of being Spider-Man. I think Raimi is dead-on target in his understanding of the essence of Spidey, just as Bryan Singer was with the X-Men. As long as they keep Cage out of it, it should kick ass...

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 1:06 a.m. CST

    A Quote From 's Flyer. . .

    by Cowblaster

    Ahem, "DOWN WITH ORGANIC WEB SHOOTERS!!!!! We are the friends of Spider-Man. We are voicing our opposition to the use of organic web shooters in the upcoming Spider-Man movie directed by Sam Raimi. Not only are we against them as an unnecessary departure from the origin of this timeless character, but also because we feel they will change the persona of Peter Parker aka Spider-Man. Mr. Raimi has given the impression that he wants Peter to be an outsider ashamed of himself and his new abilities, and this is his reasoning for the change. This has never been the case, yes he has often been ashamed of the burden his powers have put on him, and the fact this burden requires that he chooses to be Spider-Man, and to put others before himself, and his social relationships. Peter Parker however was never ashamed of himself, his powers, or how they made him different. The only thing he was ashamed of was having to leave those he loved or those he wanted to be closer to in order to do the good he choose to do, in order to save the lives of others. The creation of his mechanical web shooters was his way of contributing to the hero he would become. It represents an acceptance of his

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 1:53 a.m. CST


    by cold lazarus

    I know your organization means well, but I think y'all are seriously overreacting. Raimi never said, to the best of my knowledge, that he intended to separate Peter Parker from society ala DARKMAN. The thing with the sleeves is a simple additional geeky affectation to Peter's already geeky life--he IS an outsider in that sense, you know--and he certainly didn't say that Peter would be holding his sleeves constantly through the film. If Peter creates the Zippo shooters as in Keopp's script, that would eliminate the need for the sleeve thing, right? It's my impression that everyone is jumping on something Raimi said to describe a scene or two and reacting as if it were the entire movie. If I'm wrong, lead me to Raimi's statement of purpose that he's going to do a Burtonish turn on Spidey and I'll gladly support what you're doing.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 2:20 a.m. CST

    cold lazuras

    by Cowblaster

    Well, Raimi's statement "It'll give him one more thing to be ashamed of" is a bad sign to me. Parker WASN'T ashamed of his powers. He rejoiced! They put him on top of the world. Having him, instead, feel ashamed of them leads me to believe that he'll spend a good portion of this flick worrying about being even more of a freak than he ever was. I think it'll make him even MORE of an outcast to his friends and his family. . . with or without the costume. I think he'll end up alienating himself, not because he's too busy fighting crime, but because he doesn't want to get too close to anybody, fearing they might look upon him as a freak because of those slits in his wrists. Even if he hides them from view, he'll still feel self-concious about them. Now, this does sound like an interesting character, but it isn't Spider-Man. Spider-Man tries and tries to fit a normal life into his schedule, but the responsibilites of putting on a costume and fighting crime are just too great. Parker would often set-up dates, only to stand them up because the Hobgoblin hits town, or he'll have to break his Aunt May's heart because he can't come to dinner late. Spider-Man may be seperated from those he loves, and may even feel like a bit of an outcast, but only because he's too busy helping others. The point is, he honestly tries to get close to those he loves. In this version, he'll concioussly seperate himself from the outside world because he'll be too ashamed of his deformaty. Of course, I cold be completly wrong about all of this. Raimi may very well go with the "I'm too busy to be there for them" angle, but still. . . I have yet to see how organic web secreters out-weight over 30 years of tradition. To me, it only ads another step for Peter to climb over. . . an unnescessary step that won't benefit him in any way, nor make him a better character. Maybe explaining web-fluid is a bit complicated, and a bit far-fetched, but we're talking about a kid who can climb walls that will invent mechanical web-shooters and face-off against a man that flies around on a bat-shaped hover-board, and another man who has four mechanical octopus-like tenticles. Is it REALLY that much of an extra stretch to say he invents a super-sticky compound (that is flawed, BTW. . . it dissolves after about two hours, remember?) to fuel those mechanical web-shooters he's going to have anyway? Will the general public take everything else in, but this one, extra detail? That's like saying "I'll believe in Warp Drive, but Transporters? NO WAY!"

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 2:47 a.m. CST

    Let's clarify some things regarding the webshooter debate.

    by Dave_F

    Okay, one of the major fears of the pro-mechanical camp is that Raimi will use the organic shooters to go hog wild in portraying Peter as a freak. Question - is there any evidence for this beyond a line or two from that video running at the San Diego comic convention? The fact that Raimi would go out of his way to mention Peter's freakishness *does* potentially bode poorly, but if that video is ALL we're basing that fear on, we may be overreacting. Is there ANY other evidence to warrant such fears? Cameron's script (which Koepp seems to be following in the webshooter department) only had Peter feeling freakish for a *very brief time*. He then goes on to gain confidence and bravado, becoming very much the character we know from the comics. If Raimi followed that example, I'd accept organic webshooters without too much difficulty. ****** My main argument now is that organic shooters remain unnecessary and quite gross to *me*. I think the relative "realism" of organics versus mechanicals is very much in the eye of the beholder. While some posters argue that film audiences are too sophisticated to accept mechanical webshooters (permit me a little cynical laughter at the use of the words "sophisticated" and "audiences" in the same breath), I personally don't see the concept as that awfully far-fetched. As discussed in SO MANY previous Talkbacks, webshooters seem very close to modern non-lethal weapons technology, and miniaturization of technology is also a given in today's world. Brilliant teens also really exist. Combine these factors, and I have little trouble accepting a teen adapting non-lethal weapons technology to a small wrist-firing mechanism, especially in a fantastic world where superheroes exist. I believe audiences, even non-superhero fans, will happily follow such a development following a well-done montage sequence. I mean, audiences *expect* to suspend disbelief beyond the norm in a superhero flick anyway. That's why "X-Men" was able to get away with concepts like Cerebro with a mere throwaway line or two, and why we didn't need a full explanation of how Cyclops' visor blocked his eye beams, and why we didn't question a hangar housing a modified stealth jet beneath a mansion. Hell, the very concept of genetic mutation giving humans superpowers is ridiculous, and yet, did audiences question its realism five minutes into the flick? Not when they *saw* Magneto raising cars with a gesture! ****** Regarding the composition of the web fluid - it doesn't really matter. Show Pete pouring various test tubes into a flask and heating it over a Bunsen burner until he gets a reaction, and you've shown the audience enough to know that some SERIOUS SCIENTIFIC STUFF is goin' down. They won't laugh. Dollars to doughnuts they'll see the end product, backed by the might of Hollywood F/X, and they'll say "Damn, that's pretty cool!" The nice thing is that with mechanical webshooters, that realization won't be immediately followed by, "Too bad the webs squirt from hideous wrist genitalia".

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 3:03 a.m. CST

    Web-shooters Aside. . .

    by Cowblaster

    Please tell me Spider-Man won't activley kill any of the villains in this movie. Just put Doctor Octavius (so far, he won't be called Dr. Octopus) in jail, and give Green Goblin an "accedental/questionable" death. Like, Spidey accidently drops Green Goblin from a bridge and he lands in the water. Or, if they DO kill a bad guy, let Peter feel remorse and extreme guilt from it!

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 4:09 a.m. CST

    dont screw this up like batman

    by mrhartnett

    the first batman was amazing.i still watch it today. but thyen came batman returns where they introduced 2 thats not necisarily a bad thing provided you can pull it off .if you try to get too much shit into one movie all you get is shit. by deviding the plot too much you devide the watchers attention and intrest. they keep adding villiand to bat man movies and they keep getting worse(lets see bat man,robin,batgirl,mr frezze.bain,and poison ivy) i mean come on how the fuck are you suposed to tell a good story when you have to fit in all those damn characters.pleeeeease dont do the same thing to SPIDER-MAN

  • Let's start with the pro-mechanical arguments, evaluating their validity one by one: 1) It's tradition - This argument is quite valid from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" point of view. Since I see very little compelling reason for organic shooters, there's no reason to change a time-honored tradition, beloved by many a fan. 2) Mechanical webshooters showcase Parker's scientific knowledge - This is only a partially valid argument. Parker's knowledge can admittedly be shown in other ways, and Koepp's current re-write shows that Pete's webshooter-building smarts can actually be combined with the organic concept. 3) Organics would cause Peter to feel overly freakish, diluting the elation and egotism which has always been part of his comic origin, in turn diluting his guilt when his Uncle dies, in turn diluting the classic theme of "great power...great responsibility" - I call this one partially valid. Raimi might play up the freakishness of the organic spinnerets enough to make this valid, or he might follow the route of Cameron's scriptment which balances out Peter's initial apprehension towards his metamorphosis with exhilaration for the advantages of his powers. No way to be sure at this point, so I see it as a weak argument. 4) Organics would add a wholly unnecessary sexual element to Peter's transition to Spider-Man - This is a valid. Slits that spew white fluid will OF COURSE carry sexual connotations, and I think that even the staunchest organic shooter defender would be hard-pressed to deny this. Cameron's treatment specifically showcases a parallel between Peter's mastery of his powers and his growth into a sexually confident young man. Interesting, perhaps, but Spider-Man's powers have NEVER been used as a metaphor for teen sexual awakening before, and I think only a handful of people would find it a worthy a worthy addition to his mythos. 5) Organics spinnerets are gross - Valid. Can anyone argue otherwise? Does anyone think that the perceived importance of organic shooters' realism will outweigh their sheer grotesqueness for the average viewer? 6) Mechanical webshooters will offer superior toy merchandizing revenues to organic shooters - Not valid. I can easily imagine toys based on either organic or mechanical webshooters with little difference between them. All the kids care about is that they get to spray Silly String from their wrists. 7) Mechanical webshooters provide a cool plot device when they run out - Partially valid. Spider-Man running out of web fluid is indeed a fun and long-standing plot device that I'd like to see in the movie. Obviously, even organic webshooters would run out eventually (Cameron's treatment has Peter eating voraciously to replace protein following his initial testing of his organic shooters), so the plot device can be duplicated, but I feel the organic angle will make it a less-satisfying moment. When Spidey tries to fire a web and gets only an impotent trickle of white goo, we'll again be reminded of the quasi-sexual nature of the organic spinnerets. Not cool. *********** Now let's look at the pro-organic arguments: 1) Organic spinnerets streamline the origin of Spider-Man's powers, giving them all a single source - Partially valid. It would simplify Spidey's origin, but I don't feel a minor simplification is worth altering a longstanding tradition. 2) Organic shooters are more realistic - Not valid. In Spider-Man's world (and most Marvel stories in general), realism is important in terms of characterization and setting, but hardly in terms of the workings of powers. Organic spinnerets are no more or less realistic than mechanical ones or Spider-Man's powers in general. 3) It's impossible to accept that Parker is such a brainiac that he could invent web fluid, and if he did, he'd be a rich man - Not valid. In an age where real non-lethal weapons technology produces guns that fire instantly-hardening goo to immobilize their targets, a miniature version of the concept hardly seems implausible. Note also the extenuating circumstances of this creation occurring in the fantastic world of superheroes. Audiences know they'll need to suspend disbelief a little extra in the world of superheroes. They're prepared for a little pseudoscience. As for Peter Parker making a profit from his genius...well, web fluid is his only real breakthrough, and it dissolves in an hour - that and the fact that selling it might blow his identity have traditionally keep him from profiting from it. Parker has general scientific skills that should be profitable too, but he never has the time to develop them ("Great power...great responsibility", remember?). There's always another villain, another sickness from Aunt May, or whatever contrivance the writers want to come up with to keep Parker from becoming a success. Put bluntly, Peter Parker would be a less-compelling character as a successful rich man, so you accept some minor contrivances to keep him struggling. 4) Mechanical webshooters will look stupid - Probably not valid. This criticism presumes the use of oversized shooters as seen in the 70's live action Spider-Man show. Owing to the general dislike of that Spider-Man incarnation, it seems highly unlikely that a film would follow its design patterns. Actually, the artistic license of the comic books provides the best solution to cloaking the webshooters: the only time the audience ever sees the *very thin* band of the shooter is when Spider-Man raises his sleeves to adjust the shooter or replace a cartridge. Once he pulls the sleeve down, the shooter isn't seen at all. Simple, elegant. 5) Change is necessary in adapting comics to film - Invalid in this matter. Change is necessary, yes, but everyone will agree that it should be done judiciously, yes? Capricious changes serve no purpose beyond allowing the filmmakers to put their personal stamp on a property, and I hardly see ego as more important than making intelligent choices. ******** That's it, my take on all the arguments I can think of, hopefully analyzed fairly objectively. I remain solidly pro-mechanical, though I do think many of the pro-mechanical arguments can be easily discounted. Ultimately, I like mechanical shooters mainly because they work *just fine* and there's no compelling reason to change them. 'Nuff said.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 6:54 a.m. CST

    Amen to Veidt for an excellant post

    by The Founder

    Man everything i was going to say you beat me to it from the mechanical/organic debate to GG orgin. Another thing that always bothered me was the web fluid cartriges, can someone explain how those tiny cartridges made so much web fluid? I know these are elements of Spidey we all grew up on and loved ,but changes have to be made to lend credibility to a story. We as fans overlook a lot stuff in comics that the mainstream audience wouldn't accept. A high school student thats a scienctific genius gains spiderpowers and conviently invents webbing in those damn little cartridges to fight crime? That sounds unrealistic and these are things that would make critics tear the film to shreds just like some of the things in x-men that were left in for us ,but the general audience didn't get and if any of you guys went with non fans i'm sure you got hit with a ton of questions. I took my girlfriend and sister and one of the first questions asked was why do Storm's eyes turn white when she uses her power,why didn't Mags find a power source for his machine instead of himself, why didn't he plug it in or use a generator,who were all those people when Prok X used cerebro to find rogue were they mutants, need I go on. This is the type of stuff that turns off non fans and their the ones to determine if a sequal's getting done. I just want Spiderman to be more self explanatory than x-men was,and don't get me wrong xmen rocked but a lot of stuff wasn't explained and assumed people knew.So back to the point on these grips about the altering of Spidey? get over it people their only minor changes for the story to flow better, geez some of you guys are acting like Doc Ock experimented on Peter to give him spider powers, now that would be cause for alarm. Another thing enough with the Tobey bashing he ain't my first choice either but i'll gladly accept him as Parker um well a college Parker, but I could live with high school thing. Nic Cage would be great for GG as long as he doesn't go overboard and not the star of the movie, and if Cage claims that he's a comic fan then he should already know not to expect top billing and the movie's not called spider man for a reason.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 7:46 a.m. CST

    How about Brent Spiner as the Green Goblin?

    by Pippin's Diamond

    I really do believe he'd be great! They sorta look alike, too: So how about it? I know, some, or most if not all of you must be thinking I need to put the pipe down. Just one fan's opinion, anyhow. Thanks, Cormorant, for that great post of yours concerning the webshooters debate! Reading Spidey TBs has made me realize there are too many arguments (pro and con) to be all taken into account, but you certainly did a pretty good job. I'm still a pro-mechanical person. To Sam Raimi: PLEASE don't let Nicholas Cage anywhere near this movie! Cage is a NAME, for god's sake. Some of you have lost your minds if you think Cage would make a good Goblin. Admittedly, GG does look a bit like Cage ocassionally, but Cage is Cage! I can't stress this enough. And I'm VERY concerned about TWO major villains being introduced in the FIRST film. This is SPIDER-MAN's introduction! There is not enough time for 2 villains!! Augh. Anyway, what on earth is Raimi thinking? From what I've seen, he's alienating most of the Spider-Man fan base by going organic. To me, this is reason enough NOT to go with the organic webshooters. Sheesh. And Harry, please take down that Tobey Maguire pic! Having the hots for Spidey is something I could really do without!

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 9:24 a.m. CST

    To Pippin's Diamond

    by Pomona88

    Brent Spiner is an inspired suggestion! I can definitely picture him in the role.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 9:41 a.m. CST

    The real Peter Parker

    by toodamnhostile

    Why don't they cast the real Peter Parker as Spidey...he already has all of the skills and costumes and would just need a few acting lessons. I'm pissed that the real Peter Parker got passed up on this one...its a real, or is it reel, shame.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 10:59 a.m. CST

    John Lithgow IS Green Goblin...

    by rossimus

    Jason Alexander is Doc Ock, Dabny Coleman as JJJ, Clint Eastwood as Uncle Ben, whoever the lady is who played Cliff's mom on cheers as Aunt May, Reese Whitherspoon as Gwen, Steve Buscemi as the Vulture, Bruce Campbell as Venom, Bruce Willis as Sandman, the guy who played the captain(Sherridan I think) on B5(I know SOMEONE knows his name)would be a good Scorpion, Alyssa Milano as MJ, Morgan Freeman as Robbie Robertson, Angelina Jolie as Felicia Hardy, someone said Tom Sellick as Kraven, good call, Jason Mewes as Electro, and that is all I can think of, so would you see it if this was the cast (I would prefer Jason Schwartzman as Peter, but Mcguire is ok)

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Alternate Universe

    by Raddik

    I am of the opinion that there could be a variety of universes existing on a plane of existence. This could easily explain all the controversy involved in why there are differences in Spidey's character. On that plane he happens to have organic shooters and on this plane we all believe he should have mechanical due to Stan Lee's creation. Marvel themselves could base a "What If..." comic on the differences it would make on Spidey's character and lifestyle. But, as it is, we will get to see it through the eyes of Raimi.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 11:14 a.m. CST

    Cormy, you're forgetting something...

    by superninja

    In that same scriptment, the nasty little wrist spinnerettes are used in two other places: 1) the lame "wet dream" joke and 2) when Kingpin captures MJ and then shows her what a freak Peter is. The reaction we have is somewhat premature, but I'm surprised to hear this coming from you, considering your attitude on remaining faithful to the comics. The difference with the X-Men is when Singer made statements about changes, he also had a reason for doing them and made it quite clear. His changes definitely made sense. Raimi just doesn't address any of the "whys"?

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 11:16 a.m. CST

    Brent Spiner is a cool suggestion.

    by superninja

    But I have him pictured in my mind as Loki for an Avengers movie. "What Avengers movie," you may ask? Hmm...that's a really good question :)

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 11:42 a.m. CST

    And Flash Thompson...

    by Buzz Maverik

    I hope Raimi and his writers will remember the coolest thing Lee/Ditko did with the Flash Thompson character. The school's top jock may have bullied Puny Parker mercilessly, but he was Spiderman's biggest and most loyal fan. Often, Flash was the only one to stick up for Spidey which is why Peter could never quite bring himself to hate the dumb jerk. This is so much better than Generic Bully Guy.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 12:07 p.m. CST

    Too bad you can't go out like said reference!

    by superninja

    j/k. Hahaha...Anyway, enough of the lambasting. At least spell losers right. Look, I think anyone who suggests Nikki Cox for MJ is a dolt, so I guess we're even. Mark Hamill is stigmatized by his role as Luke Skywalker. I think he's good enough for the Green Goblin. After all, this isn't the "Green Goblin Movie" is it?

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 12:52 p.m. CST

    Raimi and hollywood

    by sundown

    I must say one thing about Raimi the business man...he was the man who fed us an underdeveloped Evil Dead 3, which the studio handed him gobs of money to actually make it look good, and then sucked all the excess into his production company that gave us thes wonderful Herc and Zima...Zena shows. He is also the man who claimed to learn everything he knew about storytelling from comics and then when he RIPPED OFF Frank Miller with his Quick and the Dead head shot (the one on poor Keith David) refused to give credit in a CSN interview...He is also the man who made a Kevin Costner baseball film "For Love of the Game" that was so Hollywood its catering budget probably out spent production. He also made the lackluster (hey I liked it but it was still a bad movie and it had Gary Sinise Lance Henrickson Leo DeCaprio and Mr.CROWE aka Gladiator and GENE HACKMAN!)Quick and the Dead. He also wrote that horrid Mantis tv show but that was a while back. Simple Plan was good but FAR, FAR from Usual Suspects. It was a nice understated story and a shock from the over the top comic book violence we usually get from him. I am not saying this movie will suck...I'll see it when I see it but to go back to the XMEN argument there is a difference between Singer and Raimi and that difference is above all Singer could put out a serious tight story. (which he did and it made up for his wimpy plot with strong scenes and charcters and good pacing) where as Raimi HAS SOLD OUT and done things to get paid and does go over the top way too far occasionally. We don't want a cheese fest here. I wish him luck and I won't pass judgement until the end credits roll but lets understand whose making this. And as far as Chris Columbus goes, before you rip him apart lets look at who is ragging on him for a second...Stephen King...Maximum Overdrive anyone...Plenty of his books SUCK! as much as rock. And Kevin Smith...Dogma...yikes that man is like Hannibal Lector with a camera...he couldn't direct his way out of a paper bag. He saw fit to rag on Home Alon and Mrs Doubtfire but his Angels looked like crap next to the Bicentennial Man and yes I'm sure he had more money but Dogma still sucked and money ain't everything SEE EL MARIACHI shot for 40,000 that runs circles around Dogma. Not everyone who portrays themselves as an indie hero is such and not every "sell out" is a hack. It is a matter of perspective and people trying to affect others with slight comments to make them feel big. They all suckle the same tit and they all "sell out" its just a matter of doing it in style...

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 1:34 p.m. CST


    by Raddik

    This talkback is getting way out of hand and way too long. But I guess I just added to the mayhem. Sorry.....

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Billy Bob Thornton as the Green Goblin

    by abcdefz

    ...there's a thought... And he's already worked with Raimi...

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 3:15 p.m. CST

    Charles Durning IS Uncle Ben!!!

    by PapaFreud

    You know it's true. Charles Durning is the man for this role. Assumming ofcourse that he isn't dead. Durning isn't dead is he?

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Re: Nick Cage, Tobey McGuire, Jon Lovitz

    by Strathaar

    Nicholas Cage as the Green Goblin. Uhm, no. He needs to be truly maniacal, not tired and dopey looking as Nicholas has become. Tobey McGuire as Spider-Man. Uhm, no. He needs to be classy, cute, but geeky; not the same dumb expression in every scene as we've seen Tobey do throughout Cider House and Pleasantville. And don't give me the Fear and Loathing trip, he had 10 minutes of screen time and wasn't that good. Jon Lovitz as Doc Octopus. You've got to be joking. Why not just cast Molly Shannon as MJ? That way we can completely screw up this film. Doc O needs to be intelligent, Jon Lovitz doesn't pull off even remotely intelligent. Why must we pull up a name for every character? Go forth Columbia and find someone new, so says me.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 3:31 p.m. CST

    I gotta agree with sundown...

    by superhero

    Thank God I'm not the only person in the world who doesn't think Raimi is the PERFECT choice for Spiderman. I personally think ALL of his movies have been sub par jokes with the exception of A SIMPLE PLAN. And yes, while I do love EVIL DEAD 2 The only reason it's any good is because of the effects and because it's LAUGHABLE CAMP! I do enjoy XENA but it's not a show I would take seriously by any means. I'm actually a bit worried about Spiderman in his hands. At least he's got the casting right so far. This organic web shooter idea is completely moronic even when it was just Jim Cameron who thought it up. Oh, and for the record X-MEN was good movie but not the greatest thing since sliced bread. It was a decent comic adaptation but some of the effects, fight sequences, and plotting were not that great. It was a nice flick but I REALLY hope that Spiderman will be MUCH better. And for all those Spiderman 2099 kids; how long did that thing last? Not even thirty issues? Spiderman's been around for almost FORTY YEARS! So don't even bring that failed Marvel futureverse garbage up when you argue for the organic shooters! The real deal is what matters and the real deal uses MECHANICAL WEBSHOOTERS ALL THE WAY!

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 3:43 p.m. CST

    what the?

    by iwilldestroyyou

    okay, i first have to say that i'm pretty happy with everything that i've heard so far. i think tobey macguire is a great choice. and all that stuff... anyway... that said- what is the deal with these damn webshooters? they now have organic webshooters and then he goes and builds mechanical webshooters to control them? that is completely ridiculous! if he's building mechanical ones anyway, why not just scrap the whole organic thing all together? it's infuriating that they have to do something so wrong and so pointless and then try to make it okay to us fans by covering it up like that... "here you go fanboys, we get our organic and you get your mechanical- we're both happy..." tha'ts stupid. just have the balls to do one or the other! if you're going to piss us off, then go ahead. but don't try to candy-coat it. arrrrghhh!!!

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 3:54 p.m. CST

    To Rossimus

    by Pomona88

    I sure hope you're kidding about wanting them to cast John Lithgow as the Green Goblin. That fat-ass fuck is the worst goddamn actor of all time! He exudes more ham and corn in a simple promotional photo than William Shatner has in his entire career.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Mary Jane casting

    by muvynupe

    Got tired of scrolling through the talkbacks so I'll post it up here. What about the "That 70s Show" redhead? She's the hottest natural redhead on tv today and she has "hottie chick swooning for the geek kid" schtick down cold. I also see Ossie Davis (OK maybe he's too old) as the sympathetic Robbie Robertson. Klaus Maria Brandauer could pull off the aloof Doc Ock if he would consent. (I mean if McKellen did it, why not, Klaus?)

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Bad Ideas and Billy Bob

    by Hellpop

    God damn it, I hope Sony is not so stupid as to think MarK Hamill Jon Lovitz or Jon Lithgow would somehow work in this movie . . .and Brent Spiner? give me a break, seriously. Lets try and get some real actors in this instead . . .and as good as he is, Kevin Spacey would not work as Doc Ock, to me he has greater potential for being some X-Men villian, Mr.Sinister or someone . .anyway . . . as I was thinking earlier, I believe Billy Bob Thorton would do well as the Doc, and that will be the hardest character to cast . . . Cage could pull off Green Goblin, but I am still waiting to hear a really great suggestion for that casting spot too . . . . . . . and finally let me make another plea for Gwen Stacy over MJ

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 5:16 p.m. CST

    RABID's your explanation, and check your temper.

    by superninja

    Mark Hamill has done some great voice work for the animated series for both Batman (as the Joker) and Spider-Man (as the Goblin). I like the idea of them getting ONE actor to do the character, without adding a voice over. It would come across more naturally, IMHO. And before you start in, I know that dubbing is an art form, blah blah blah, but I think it would be more fluid to use the same actor for both parts. That said, Hamill can do great things with his voice. I also disagree that Hamill is a terrible actor. His whiney line in SW:ANH is written as whiney, so that's how he delivered it. I think his stuff in ESB and ROTJ are excellent, and the only other actor BETTER than him in SW is Ian McDairmid. But that's just how I feel. I don't expect you or anyone else to jump on my bandwagon, so get over it. I will continue to mention Hamill. All I ask is that he's given the OPPORTUNITY. I'm not demanding that he get the part, only that he be able to test for it. IS THAT EXPLANATION ENOUGH. Thank you for making me waste my time.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 6:02 p.m. CST

    : )

    by superninja

    Enamored isn't the right word. Ford isn't that great of an actor, in case you haven't noticed. I did forget about Cushing and Guiness, and of course, Yoda. That puppet had a damn fine performance. The more I watch the Original Trilogy, the more I respect Hamill's performance. He's the emotional anchor of Star Wars. Are you still laughing?

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 6:03 p.m. CST

    my biggest problem w/organic webshooters

    by UncleSatan

    okay,even if the need is genuinely felt to make it the bite of a genetically engineered spider (and please let it still be a radioactive one) that transforms Peter,if he's making his own webs because of his own spider-like nature,then his spinnerets would not likely be located on his wrists.arthropods are not really my field and i'm not even sure if spiders have wrists,but i do know where webs come from.That said,i really have no desire to see Toby shooting webs out of his butt.remember kids,all fiction is lies...good fiction is lies with an internal truth.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Children Behave...

    by Raddik

    OK, this has gone long enough. The truth of the matter is not one single actor that has been mentioned, argued profusely, and screamed out will probably appear in the movie. Why; because Sony won't shell out big bucks to provide quality acting entertainment that is marketed towards teens and adult geeks alike( me included). It needs that cash supply to cover the effects and photography budget. So you can defend or promote your favorite actor as much as you like, but chances are this film will be full of no-names. As for the shooters, Sony does not have the time or the money to explain how Peter buys and finances his supply of web-fluid so Cameron came up with the simple solution that it is produced by glands in the body which create the enzymes needed to form this liquid webbing. These talkbacks have been covered from biologists to psychiatrists and every POV that could possibly be examined. Bottom line is be happy that this film is being made after all. The timing is right and the effects and technology available now will heighten its realism. It is my belief that everyone is just as anxious for this film to come out, hence all the activity in just this TB. I also feel that deep down, AICN was waiting for this film to be developed and this website was formed in order to serve as a communications hub for all the fans of Spidey.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Sounds Cool

    by movieman611

    Now I am reading these plot details and I like what I read. If they concentrate on peter parker/spider-man and also while doing that, explain and delve into the origin of Doc Oc and Green Goblin, I believe we may have a graet movie like X-Men.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 7:59 p.m. CST

    To Organic supporters & the like...

    by pfloyd

    So far the few arguments in favor of organic has been very unsucessful. I'm sure 'the writer' in the earlier post would agree Mario Puzo did a very good job translating 'Superman' to film and he didn't need to change things...hmmm. Is Mario Puzo not a creative person; according to 'the writer' he is not because he didn't change things to meet his needs. So, 'writer' before you go supporting things that SEEM creative, think about what you are talking about. No one here in support of mechanical web shooters has been asking for a word for word adaptation, however we would like the same respect 'Superman' got for his film. Now, if you read my earlier post 'Raimi stole his vision' you would see not only is the whole organic mutation been done before, but it was done in some cheesy Disney mermaid movie about a teenager coming of age and being ashamed of his mutation. This is not 'Spiderman'; if Raimi wants to make a film about a boy who gets spiderlike mutated powers, good for him, but don't insult us and call it 'Spiderman'. I would rather wait another 40 years to see a good adaptation, than a crappy one now. As far as the complaints about the film not seeming real enough, well whats wrong with you people, have you no imagination. Did you really believe the boy in 'E.T.' could fly his bike with the help of an alien. Did really believe Michael J. Fox could possibly go back in time with a car. Did you really believe Alf existed. Did you really believe they could make dinosaurs in 'Jurassic PArk'. Did you believe 'Batman' could really move around in that leather costume so gracefully. Did you really believe any of the 'Stars Wars' stuff. Hopefully you answerwed no; movies as well as other forms of art require some suspension of disbelief to make it work. Organic fans, believe it or not, films are not real, and the best film adaptations are the ones who closely follow the source material. It doesn't make the film makers any less creative. If Raimi thinks the origin of 'Spiderman' is too difficult to make, then maybe he isn't the man for the job. I'm not saying I could do better, but then again I would probably START with the source material, not make up my own and complain that the origin isn't believable enough. And if anyone thinks Raimi is doing this for anything but money, you are nuts. He didn't put up his own money to see his vision of 'Spiderman' brought to the screen, Raimi is just making another of his 'forget me in two weeks' films that he seems so desperate to make every 5 years.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 8:19 p.m. CST


    by Dave_F

    Have no fear, I'm still firmly pro-mechanical, but I think Cameron's scriptment proves that organic shooters could be introduced without damaging the core nature of Spidey's character - they'd just be gross and serve no story purpose whatsoever. I agree that there are one or two scenes (the ones you mentioned) that should be cut, but for the most part, Spider-Man's "freakishness" isn't overly played in the treatment. Generally, he's an outsider in Cameron's scriptment for the same reason he is in the comics: as Peter, he's still a nerd; as Spidey, he's considered an outlaw by the police and the newspapers. Classic Spidey. As for Raimi addressing potential alterations...well, it sounds like a final script hasn't even turned up yet, so I'm not surprised he hasn't issued statements. And to be fair, not every comics-to-film director is gonna interact as much with fandom as Singer did. The cool thing is, given the very vocal anti-organic fan movement (yes, I signed the petition at the web site), I think that Raimi *has* been given cause to re-think any inclinations he had to really stigmatize Peter as a freak. I'm guessing that Raimi (or his lackeys) have basically "gotten the message" that fans won't stand for overzealous alterations. At this point, though, until we get some solid info, I'm not gonna criticize him for a few stray lines in a short promo tape. Too bad the cat who reviewed Koepp's rewrite said NOTHING at all about Peter's character, especially after all the hullabaloo of late. I suppose the fact that nothing stood out enough to mention probably means Pete isn't being made into too much of an outcast. We'll see, we'll see.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 8:40 p.m. CST

    Puzo DIDN'T change Superman???

    by muvynupe

    OK, maybe I'm a stickler, but Fortress of solitude created from a crystal... The Phantom Zone recreated as some flat space lcd screen... Not to mention, the reduction of Superman's arch nemesis into comic relief. I don't know of Puzo got story credit on the sequel--even though they were simultaneously filmed-- but he had to know that they were going to introduce that freaky "white laser out of the hand thing" and the "wow, Kyptonians can teleport" thing.. not to mention the "Look, I can grab my chest logo and fling it into a huge mylar trap" thing as presented in Superman 2. I'm not saying I agree with organic webbing, but Puzo wasn't exactly a slave to the source material, my friend. Plus, I can deal with the fact that metal "shooters" are introduced to refine his web-spinning. Folks don't seem to whine so much about John Byrne's recent update to Spidey "History" where Doc Ock and Spidey are created from the same accident. That flies in the face of 30-odd years of continuity and nobody seems to mention it.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 8:42 p.m. CST

    Thanks but You're All Wrong, Mostly...

    by Darth Brooks

    Enough. Here is the only true casting of the film: Tobey = Spiderman. Doc Ock = obvious cameo by Mike Myers. Mary Jane = Lacey Chambert, you idiots! Aunt May = any gray-haired extra from the beginning of "The Green Mile". Uncle Ben = Peter Graves. JJJ = Ted Levine in a great toupee. Robbie Robertson = Michael Jai White. Green Goblin could be ED NORTON. All affordable if scripted right for day-players. You have no choice. Go back and watch TV - we'll call you when it's ready.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 8:53 p.m. CST


    by trugoy75

    two words, crispen glover should be the green goblin, not fuckin nick cage! jesus, thats worst than wiil smith as mohamed ali! please let r. lee ermy be jjj. and it should be gwen stacy, not mary jane for the love interest! kari russell would make a great gwen stacy! i'm so glad they got tobey, thats fuckin bad-ass!!!!! but get rid of sam and bring in a better director! any one but raimi!!!

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 9:15 p.m. CST

    ROBERT FORSTER for Uncle Ben-------

    by Hypestyle

    He'd be excellent-------- Also, SAM JACKSON for ROBBIE----

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 9:24 p.m. CST

    introducing the webspinners...

    by elrobbo

    Someome mentioned that it would take up too much time explaining how Pete creates web-spinners. I think it could be done easily. In an early scene, Peter Parker could be working on some science project. Flash Thompson interrupts him, causing him to mix the wrong chemicals, and thick grey sticky liquid oozes out. This sticks all over Peter, making him look like a loser in front of everyone, again. After gaining his powers, he could hit apon the idea of high-powered 'shooters', and use this substance as webbing.

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 10:24 p.m. CST

    Dumbasses galore!

    by Veidt

    I can't believe some idiots are looking at the mechanical devices that Peter's going to use to control the flow of his webbing and saying "Uh, well why not go all the way and have him just MAKE his webbing, too?" Let's see - because making a mechanical device is very fucking different than concocting this magic goo. The pro-mechanical posters all have the same moronic suggestion to just show Peter working over a few test tubes and volia! instant web fluid - proving that some people truly have shit for brains. Peter's artifical webbing would have to be made out of materials that are readily available to him, correct? Especially as he has to continually make fresh supplies, right? So that would be ordinary household items, maybe? How the hell would he come up with frigging webbing out of whatever rubber adhesive is in the Parker basement? And so maybe Parker has free reign in the science lab at school - yeah, the one with all the half-assed, outdated science equipment that would be par for the course for today's typically underfunded American high schools. Suspension of disbelief can only get you so far. Even a fantasy has to play within certain guidelines. It has to observe its own logic. The bottom line is organic webbing makes a lot more sense in the context of Spidey's origin. And it doesn't change his character. He can - and obviously will - still be a science-minded character. He won't be a freak. This aspect has been totally over-blown by reactionary fanboys. So he has protrusions that resemble rose-thorns that only show when he's about to use them. In today's culture where tattos, body piercing and the like are now commonplace, little rose thorns are hardly alarming. I guarantee that most people who come to this site probably have pimples on their ass that are more freakish than anything Parker will have in this movie. His spinerettes are not going to be dripping fluid all through the movie, he's not going to be cowering under a dark stairwell in a state of embarrassement. In short, there's nothing about his spinerettes that will outcast him any more than the ability to crawl up walls. He can still have the all the arrogance that leads to him letting the burgular escape. He can still only be looking out for number one. The only real argument for mechanical web-shooters is "well, that's the way it's always been!" But all the original Marvel heroes' origins need revamping in one way or another. If a Daredevil movie came out, there's no way he'd get his powers from just having radioactive waste spilled on him during a traffic accident. On the Hulk TV show, they already lost the gamma bomb origin and would change it again if a new movie were to come about. If they made a Fantastic Four movie, they'd have to come up with a more plausible reason that a scientist would decide to take his best friend, his girlfriend, and her teenaged brother up for a joyride in a rocket. Changing the webbing to organic for Spidey is nothing radical in the scheme of things. The essence of the character will remain the same.

  • Sorry, hadda get that off my chest. Nothing personal. Seriously, I'm sure it did moderate sales based on the hook of re-writing Spidey's origin and the very minor draw of Byrne's name, but it was putting out *so* little creative energy that I'm not surprised at all it created no controversy. I read the first issue, same as I did with Byrne's "X-Men: The Hidden Years", and my conclusion is that the poor guy is officially creatively bankrupt. His writing style is trapped in a bygone era and there's not an ounce of the innovation he once put into the Fantastic Four or Superman. Sadly, he's about as relevant to modern comics as his old cohort Chris Claremont is, and that's not at all. Oh, and getting back to the Doc Ock/Spidey link - it's hardly some shocking addition. Really, it's just a minor attempt by Byrne to streamline Spidey's continuity, as if continuity means a damn when the stories are boring as hell. ***** On a separate note, you *are* correct that Puzo took liberties with the Superman legend, but consider also how fragmented the legend was to begin with. Take Superboy for instance. Puzo cut him from the legend, but then again, Superboy hadn't always been a part of the Superman myth (until the writers needed some more story hooks and sales eventually warranted additional Superman titles). Puzo changed Luthor too, though for my money, the comic book version of Luthor was always a lame character until Byrne revamped him in the 80's (yeah, Byrne wasn't always a washout). The important thing is, Puzo didn't screw around with the core elements of that era's Superman mythos. Supes is still the last son of Krypton. He's still adopted by the Kents, still raised to be the purest hero of them all, still takes on the secret identity of a gawky reporter, etc. Actually, I've argued in previous Talkbacks that Puzo actually told a far stronger Superman story than decades of the comics had produced. I still think that's true. As to whether Puzo wrote the more fanciful elements of "Superman 2"'s kind of a hard call. I'm not very familiar with the production and collaboration details, but a quick trip to IMDB shows me two additional writers credited for the first and second Superman flicks. My gut instinct is that they were the ones that got wacky, or more likely, director Richard Lester was behind it (he of the wonky "Three Musketeer" films). It's hard for me to reconcile the seriousness with which Puzo treats Superman in the first film with some of the cornball gags in the second. I'd actually be quite interested to learn more about the production and answer these questions. I gotta go poke around some websites...

  • Aug. 2, 2000, 11:52 p.m. CST


    by Roj Blake

    your disbelief and enjoy what will more than likely be a cool ride. The idea of Spidey and Goblin kicking that crap out of one another high above the Macy's Day Parade is the kind of stuff I dreamed about when I was a kid. If you're going to let this whole organic webshooters things get to you, then I think you kind of miss the spirit of Spiderman. Raimi's the perfect guy for the job and he'll give us as good a Spiderman as any. And it will look really cool. Change can be a good thing. And other cliches.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 12:19 a.m. CST

    A better cast!

    by OnlineMovieguy

    Dude, why did they pick Maguire? He's more of an SNL, Pleasentville guy. Heath Ledger or Joshua Jackson should be Spidey, Doc. Ock should be that guy from the TV show Animorphs and the movie Bless the Child, you know, the one with the binoculars who says "We've found the one." Well any ways,Green Goblin should either be CGI or that guy with the villian with the glass eye in Last Action Hero. Aunt May should be the Dead Mom on Providence, and as for Mary Jane, Anna Paquin. I think this would be a good cast. I hope it turns out like X-Men where it isn't some crappy comic book movie like Batman.

  • I think Americans have an *amazing* capacity for suspension of disbelief when it comes to their action movies, especially superhero action movies. Consider "Superman". Were audiences put off when a single Kryptonian crystal created Superman's entire Fortress of Solitude as if by magic? Did viewers worry how in God's name Earth's sun gave a man flying powers? Was Supes riding wind currents? Did he use telekinesis to fly? No one cared. They understood the important thing - Superman had amazing powers. How he got 'em and how exactly they worked was a lot less important than the cool stuff he did with 'em (just like the comics). On to "Batman". How did Bruce Wayne build ALL that gear? The Batcave, Batmobile, Bat Plane, Bat Boat, etc. - we didn't see them being built, yet somehow audiences accepted their existence because they knew that cool gear is part of many superheroes' stories. And then there's all the weirdness in "X-Men", as outlined in one of my previous posts. Dozens and dozens of implausibilities in that one, and it's STILL a box office success! Veidt, I think your notion of sophisticated audiences is largely a myth. The average filmgoer is very laid-back about what's acceptable and how much a movie needs to conform to reality. In fact, American audiences are almost certainly *too* willing to suspend disbelief for some of the shit Hollywood churns out! But for a superhero flick, that tolerance level is probably appropriate. As a film geek like most Talkbackers, *you* might overanalyze all the little details of Parker concocting web-fluid and webshooters, but Joe Six Pack won't. If you think I'm really off-base in this conclusion, name me a couple Hollywood actioneers that failed or even remotely turned audiences off due to plausibility issues. Consider the case of "M:I2" and "What Lies Beneath". Many a Talkbacker (film geek) has savaged these movies for lack of realism, but general audiences (Joe Six Pack) have made them big successes. ****** Now, all those arguments aside for a moment, I'm willing to roll with organics as long as Raimi doesn't go apeshit playing up their grotesqueness. At the moment, I'm thinking he probably won't. Whaddya know, a little common ground is established.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 12:38 a.m. CST

    Pretty funny, JiveT.

    by Dave_F

    Of course, I think few people would cite the "out of web fluid" plot gimmick as their chief objection to organic shooters, but your post's damn funny anyway.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 12:58 a.m. CST

    Eh, I've Got Nothin' Better To Do. . .

    by Cowblaster

    *** "God dammit! Why on Earth did that movie have Spider-Man invent that web-fluid stuff? That's it, I want my money back! No one can invent web-fluid! NO ONE! It's impossible! It can't happen! I mean, if it WAS possible, why hasn't it been invented yet? HELLO!!! If we haven't built it yet, it can't possibly happen! Shit! Other than that, I thought those tentacles Dr. Octavius had were pretty freakin' sweet. . ." *** Come on, guys. . . we're talkin' Science Fiction here. It's pointless to debate what's more realisitc: A man who develops web-glands in his wrists (despite the fact spiders don't have glands in their wrists. . . if they HAVE wrists), or a teenager inventing a super-sticky compound. The only thing either of these two options has going for it is that one is very true to the comic book which this movie is based off of, and the other isn't. Change CAN be a good thing, but that doesn't mean all changes are good.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 2:14 a.m. CST

    Another great post VEIDT

    by The Founder

    Veidt don't bother trying to explain to some of these guys cause you'll find its a losing battle.I do agree that some comic to films orgins need to be updated for the big screen.Most of the orgins created back in the 60's just wouldn't hold up today and lets be honest some of them are pretty hokey.Characters like Superman,Batman,Hulk,and Spiderman (to a certain degreee)orgins are fine and minor changes can be allowed' but heroes like FF will need a major overhaul. Example; Richard's a genius but he doesn't shield the ship properly to withstand cosmic rays(which should have fried them)?He takes along his girfriend,her kid brother,and best friend instead of experienced personnel? Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't the government and nasa regulate whats launched into space I mean not even big corperations with the resources can just launch something into space without violating some government regulation can they? At least when Jim Lee did the FF in Heroes reborn he streamlined their orgin to make it more believable and no one bitched about the changes he made. So people just accept the minor changes in Spidey, and running out of webbing would still be an issue as spiders themselves don't have an infinte supply of web fluid and the same would apply to Spidey as well.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 2:43 a.m. CST

    Spider-MAN movie STICK TO THE BASICS

    by Street Hawk

    you guys don't get it spidey needs mechanical webshooters & to stick to the basic spider-man guidlines and with the technological advancements of today it theoretically would be possible for spidey to make webbing!!!! ever hear of genetic minipulation/gene splicing/hybridizing. this (*&(^^(**%%****&% genetic shooters & mutogenic/tenage replication. is enough to make Jack(King)Kirby roll over, rise from his grave. for those of us that do understand what spidey & the comic is really about should care enough to sign the no organic webshooters petition online & read the facts about how changing it would'nt be logical at HTTP://WWW.NO-ORGANIC-WEBSHOOTERS.COM I MEAN AFTER ALL PEOPLE WE'RE COMING CLOSER EVERYDAY TO BEING ABLE TO MAKE REPLICANTS SO WHY NOT ARTIFICIAL WEBBING!!!!!!!!!!!!.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 3:11 a.m. CST

    Robbie Robertson, and eventually that guy known as Kraven...

    by enigmainyourhead

    Okay, Tome Selleck as Kraven is the oddest thing ever. Try Gary Oldman. He can definately do the accent and doesn't come with all that Magnum and Friends baggage. And Robbie can't be someone really famous and super popular like Morgan Freeman or Sam Jackson. He doesn't even look like them. Tony Todd was a cool suggestion, and Avery Brooks with hair would be cooooool. Too bad Sidney Poitier is too old, the dude is perfect looking...

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 3:59 a.m. CST

    A few casting notes that I'm sure no one will read

    by Pseudonym

    Mark Hamill would kick ass as the Green Goblin. I still remember him as The Trickster on the old Flash TV show. He friggin' ruled as a psycho. I think there's some promise in Toby McGuire as Parker the wallflower. Slap some goofy glasses on that boy and let him get his books knocked out of his hands in the hallway with a "Kick Me" sign on his back, and the boy would look like puny Parker. My pick for Doc Ock probably won't fly, but it's something else to add to the mix. I think John Rhyes-Davies (Sala from Indiana Jones) would make a great Doc Ock if he lost some weight for the role. He's got that academic scientist air about him, and when he's got a decent script, he can bring a lot to a role. Although I really don't care for Nic Cage, I think he would make a decent Eddie Brock. He can be buff when he needs to be (check out Con-Air), and we all know he can play a nutjob-lunatic-loser like nobody's business. That about wraps this up; I'll be genuinely surprised if anyone actually reads this.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 4:45 a.m. CST

    William Shatner

    by OldGeek

    There, that got your attention, didn't it? Actually, I have a reason to put that name in the header, and it isn't Doc Ock. It's the Shatner quote: "Get a life." Folks, get a life. It's only a movie. If you don't like what you will be shown, then vote on the day it comes out, in the language even Hollywood understands: don't buy tickets to the movie. But don't burst your vessels before you have any hard facts (preferably not until after you've seen the movie).

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 6:50 a.m. CST

    Shut UP about the fucking webshooters!

    by Barry Stowles

    You can argue about this all you like, but the fact is it won't make one jot of difference; organic is what we're getting. You can either live with it (and you should, it's not like it's going to change Pete's character so that he rapes Flash Thompson and goes round Manhattan blowing people away with an AK-47 whilst singing Zipedee Doo Da)or just don't go and see the movie. Bear in mind, it does say BARELY VISIBLE slits on his wrist. And on another topic, Mark Hamill may be a great voice actor, but I think his cartoon voicing would be a bit OTT for a film version of Spidey. He probably does deserve to be tested, though.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Bug's farewell to the troops, for now...

    by Ambush Bug

    Bug here. The AICN talkbacks have been a good form of entertainment for me at my job for the last few months. It has helped me through many a boring day at my desk. I have been there through the whole AICN/CA war, the X-Men movie/costume/casting debates, the mechanical/organic web-spinner imbroglios, and now Tobey's casting as Spider-Man. Today marks the end of my time at this job as I will be moving on to greener pastures. Yes, that's right. The Bug's on hiatus. This site hasn't seen the last of me, but for the time being, there will be no Bug On...'s. I know. I know. Be strong everyone. We'll get through this together. Cormorant, Superninja, Niiice, Uncapie, and all the rest, carry on the good fight until I return. Sniff, sniff. I told myself I wasn't going to cry. Sniff. Harry, you're still cool, even though you banned me that one time, and you run one of the coolest sites around. Don't let the man getcha down. People, I will return. There is plenty more for me to say about Star Wars, Spidey, LOTR and POTA. I think it would be better if I just turn around and walk away. Viva La Ambush Bug! Sniff. Sniff. Bug out.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Green Goblin = Willem Dafoe

    by Leech

    Will someone PLEASE cast this guy as a supervillian. Also, I think Jason Alexander should be Doc Ock.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 10:42 a.m. CST

    Well, audiences aren't sophisticated, that's for sure...

    by Veidt

    If they were, What Lies Beneath wouldn't be doing the business that it is. In regards to suspension of disbelief and what audiences will buy into and what they won't - that's not really my main reason for going with the organic shooters. It's because I just like the idea and that I, personally, think it's a smart, logical way to approach Peter's powers. As for Superman - two phrases that can give writers and filmmakers carte blanche - it's "alien technology" and "alien biology". Who knows what Kryptonian crystals can do? Who knows how Kryptonian physiology reacts to solar energy? It's all from another planet. And as for Batman, we know that all that money can buy a lot of toys. It only becomes ridiculous when you get into the camp of the TV show where he has a gadget for any situation (Bat-Shark Repellant anyone?). I - and half the people on this site - have already wasted enough time on this (on both sides). As someone noted, this is the way the movie's going regardless. I approve but even if I didn't, based on the history of comic fans getting wound up over shit that turns out to amount to nothing, I'd take a wait and see attitude.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Why the hell Gwen Stacy?

    by Blue Devil

    Why is everyone trying to get Gwen Stacy in this film? Who wants to see a character who died in the '70s? It's like when they put Vicki Vale in the Batman movie. 90% of the public didn't know (thus, didn't care) who the hell she was! It's either Mary Jane or no one! Now, back to the webshooter thing. Though Koepp's idea is an improvement, the idea of our hero shooting sperm from his wrists is not appealing to me. GO WITH THE MECHANICAL! It's a much better idea. Now, with the villains. Ever since Batman Returns, filmmakers love putting multiple villains in a movie- more often a detriment than an advantage. Who remembers what the hell Two-Face did in Batman Forever? One of the villains is going to get overshadowed. That was okay in X-Men because the true villain was Magneto, everbone else was a "henchman". I don't know about you, but neither Doc Ock nor Green Goblin deserve to be slighted. Hell, I think a Green Goblin movie would be cooler than a Spider-Man movie. Not that it matters, ever since Tobey Maguire got cast I think this film is going to suck anyway

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Blue Devil...

    by Kikstad

    I agree with everything you wrote except for the last sentence...and I think Gwen Stacy should be in the sequel.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Doc Ock Casting

    by tlatner

    It's too bad Roy Orbison is no longer with us. He was a dead ringer for Doc Ock.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 2:15 p.m. CST

    I Guess You Guys Are Right, Web-Fluid Just Wouldn't Work

    by Cowblaster

    Such a thing like web-fluid is a terrible idea. No one can do it, so I guess no one wants to see Peter Parker make the stuff. Who'd believe that? I guess I wouldn't. Hmm. . . oh, well. Hey, you guys gonna go see that movie coming out this Friday about that guy who gets an injection by some formula that makes him invisible? Pretty neat stuff!

  • the plausibility isn't the issue, it's the faithfulness to the source material,yes I know that Cowblaster is being sarcastic, but the numerous other people who say"it's not believable"are who I'm addressing, if you don't do it right why call it Spider-man?

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 3:08 p.m. CST

    The only thing that can ruin suspension of disbelief is BAD writ

    by superninja

    For instance, if Singer had chosen to use brightly colored costumes and continue along with the serious theme of prejudice it would not have worked. It would've made the whole tone of the film a contradiction -- a joke. Spider-Man, I think, could work in a hyper-reality with bright colors, etc. because the real story is the character of Peter Parker, and not his surroundings. But the webshooter arguement is moot when you have a guy with eight tentacles coming out of his body. C'mon, you can't even argue that! Part of the reason these origins seem out of date is that we've become a nation of cynics. For instance, I was thinking of the Captain America movie adaptation. How on earth will you get today's punk-ass youth to identify with (much less LIKE) a guy that 1) has strict morals and 2) is a big proponent of the "American Dream"? Forget the costume... Look at the way we view our government! In this post-Watergate/Iran Contra/Clinton Scandal country, we've taken the X-Files to heart -- trust no one. Captain America would fall flat set in a modern era without some substantial setup so the audience could sympathize with his character and respect his old-fashioned ideals. Just my $0.02.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 5:59 p.m. CST

    The Comedian

    by superninja

    That's an interesting idea about Captain America. But I think you also have to be careful about treating WWII too irreverently. An interesting tibit I read about the script Randall Wallace wrote for Pearl Harbor spoke of how the American attitudes when they entered WWII were so different from today. People couldn't believe that Japan had the audacity to attack America, and people were lining up to go to war. Nowadays, people view war with a cautious eye -- "What are the REAL motives/what is propoganda/etc.?" I think the potential for a good Captain America script is there but a balance has to be achieved. I think the key is to at least start the film with his origin set during WWII. That way the audience (if it's done right) can understand the character through the events and surroundings. His costume is easily explained by focusing on the fact that he was acting as a symbol on the front lines, so he was supposed to stick out. But then you risk beating people over the head with patriotism. I think something that would work would be a cross between Indiana Jones and the Rocketeer.

  • Aug. 3, 2000, 6:44 p.m. CST

    Bug? ... Bug?! .... BUUGGG!!!!!

    by Dave_F

    Sorry to seeya go, bud. The upside is that we won't hafta hear your trash talk whinin' about how Gwen Stacy is better than Mary Jane! In your face, Bug! Mary Jane all the way! On a related topic, based on your recommendation I picked up a trade paperback with the death of Gwen Stacy storyline. Great stuff indeed, though Gwen herself didn't get enough screen time to impress me. Coolest of all, though, was Parker's hip 70's clothes, right down to the bead necklace and medallion! Quoth Mary Jane: "I dig those chains you're sporting, Petey!" Damn, Parker's a smoove cat when he wants to be. Anyway, take it easy during the hiatus, Bug.

  • Aug. 4, 2000, 11:34 p.m. CST

    The Bio-spinners

    by PiecesOfRook

    I always been a big fan of the 2099 series from way back, so the bio-spinners were kinda familiar sounding. Anyone remember Miguel O'hara's (Spiderman 2099) adaptation, where webbing was stored in his forearms? He also jokingly acknowledged the technical inconsistency with nature: "I guess it beats shooting webbing out my butt!"

  • Aug. 4, 2000, 11:51 p.m. CST

    Spiderman movie

    by NewJack

    So far this Spiderman movie thing sounds and looks like a great big mess. I'm hopeful however. The X-Men turned out okay. Who would've thought?!

  • Aug. 5, 2000, 3:33 p.m. CST


    by Exalay

    *Maguire's milquetoast, Macy's a leap of faith, Cage is dangerous *It should be Gwen Stacy, *if we must see MJ, Prepon has the look, Charisma Carpenter has the attitude, *Spiner could work *Durning would be a good choice for a bit part *Quit with all the superstar-type suggestions and think smaller names, please!! P.S. - Organics can run out of web-fluid, too

  • Aug. 9, 2000, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Gwen Stacy

    by RonFerraro

    Spider-man fans all know that the most traumatic thing that ever happened to Peter Parker was the death of his one true love, Gwen Stacy, at the hands of the Green Goblin atop the Brooklyn Bridge. If Sam Raimi makes a Spider-man movie that selectively omits this tragedy from the history of the character, he might as well suggest to the screenwriters that they make Pete a photographer for Playboy instead of the Daily Bugle. Moviegoers can handle a little seriousness even though it is a "superhero" movie. I don't know why Mary Jane is featured in the script without Gwen Stacy. Gwen and Peter and Mary Jane and Harry, they're all supposed to all be friends, with Flash showing up now and then to stir up trouble. I can almost see the scene: the battle atop the bridge, Gwen gets knocked off and falls in slow-motion... the "snap" of Spidey's web fluid... or was that Gwen's neck? A moment of quiet shock... and then Spider-man's RAGE. A moment showing MJ or Harry's reaction when they hear the news... hell, everybody's reactions to such a tragedy. Now I can appreciate wanting to lower the body count a little in the Spider-history. I mean you already got Uncle Ben getting killed right off the bat, then you got Betty Brant's brother getting nixed, then you got Doc Ock dropping half a ton of bricks on Captain Stacy, of course after Gwen dies the goblin himself dies (well, vanishes for a REALLY long time, anyway) and now the comics have MJ getting blown up in a plane crash. Let's not forget Kraven and Mysterio blowing their heads off, Smythe croaking from cancer, etc. etc. Even ignoring all that, most long-time fans like myself have not recovered from Gwen's death. It's one thing to accept Uncle Ben's death, we expect older folks to pass on eventually. But for Gwen to be killed in such a way, a girl who was so innocent and full of life, a girl who brought love and joy to everyone who knew her... for her to be cut down so ruthlessly by a maniac like the Green Goblin... Well, let's just say it would be easy to make an audience fall in love with a character like that, and the unforgettable moment when she falls off the bridge will definitely affect people. They will understand at that point how comic books are not just superhero action figures with zippy names, but that the best of them are based on human stories, comedies as well as tragedies. Most people won't be expecting that. They won't expect to find themselves getting emotional at a "blockbuster superhero action flick." You'll have your Titanic audience, your Armageddon audience, your huge mass of people saying, "I thought Spider-man was just a cartoon goofball. I never knew." Not that you can only have that side! Humor must be packed in there too, but if the balance isn't found, the picture will fall flat. It won't be the Spider-man that everybody loves, it will just be a moderately convincing clone.

  • Dec. 17, 2001, 5:48 a.m. CST

    Lightstorm and a question

    by Yoda75

    Hello Spideyfans, I had the unbelievable chance to see Lightstorm about 9 years ago. Didn&#39;t get to meet the Man himself, he was on the phone about Titanic or something. I did get to see some really cool stuff in the Santa Monica office though. An air-driven model of Ripley&#39;s constructionbot from Aliens, the skull stomping T-800 life-size model from the opening of T2 (I&#39;ll have to post a picture I have of that), a 4-5 inch tall Alien Queen from Aliens, and some other stuff. Getting to the point, what I wasn&#39;t allowed to photograph was a poster. It was VERY similar to the promo poster with Spidey stuck to the gold colored (WTC?) building. Since I wasn&#39;t allowed to photograph, here were the differences from my hazy and thus possibly inaccurate memory. First, it was nighttime. Second, Spidey was in his black costume. Third, the perspective wasn&#39;t rotated. Like I said, this was 10 years ago, but still the coolest thing I&#39;d ever seen. So my first question is, is Cameron&#39;s poster floating around the internet? I&#39;d love a walk down memory lane. Second, was Cameron&#39;s script calling for a Black-costumed spidey? And third, who made these posters? It&#39;s really strange to me that different directors would be using similar posters. Or is that all up to the producers? -Tom