Master stunt performer and occasional actor (and New Zealand native) Zoë Bell is an easy person to be a fan of because she epitomizes what a badass truly is. I remember first realizing who she was after watching the 2005 documentary DOUBLE DARE, which profiled up-and-comer Bell (she'd made a career stunt-doubling for Lucy Lawless in "Xena: Warrior Princess" for about four years) and the legendary Jeannie Epper (Lynda Carter's double in "Wonder Woman," for starters). The film leads up to Bell's triumphant career highlight of doubling for Uma Thurman in the KILL BILL films after an exhaustive search by Quentin Tarantino and his stunt team for a stuntwoman who was about as tall as Thurman and could still kick all sort of martial arts ass.
Tarnatino liked her so much that a couple years after KILL BILL her hired her to play herself in his portion of the GRINDHOUSE film experience DEATH PROOF, which features a fantastic sequence in which Bell rides on the hood of a fast-moving car while Kurt Russell tries to run said car off the road. She doubled for Sharon Stone in CATWOMAN; Katherine Heigl in 27 DRESSES; Jennifer Garner in THE KINGDOM; Mélanie Laurent and Diane Kruger in INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS; Sandra Bullock in THE PROPOSAL; and various other actors in films like THE FINAL DESTINATION and most recently IRON MAN 3 (presumably for Gwyneth Paltrow) to name a few.
But in recent years, Bell has also been concentrating on becoming a working actor, sometimes even in roles where stunt work isn't required (such as her brief stint on "Lost"), but usually the parts require someone who can get physical and doesn't mind getting bruised. As a result, Bell has supporting parts in films like GAMER, WHIP IT (playing the roller derby goddess Bloody Holly), DJANGO UNCHAINED, HANSEL & GRETEL: WITCH HUNTERS, and OBLIVION with Tom Cruise.
But in her latest film, the nasty indie actioner RAZE, Bell is the unqualified star of this film about 50 women held captive and forced to fight two at a time with only their fists until only one is left alive. It's a brutal and shocking piece for sure, but one which Bell is unapologetically proud of. Last October during the Chicago International Film Festival, I had a chance to sit down with Bell (whose character is named Sabrina) and RAZE's director Josh C. Waller and go through the sexual politics and ramifications of making a film that pits women against women for sport. Both are willing to dig deep and defend the film (something they've probably been doing a lot of since the film premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival last April), and still be funny and charming while they do so.
It should be noted that Waller's follow-up film McCANICK, which premiered at last year's Toronto Film Festival, features the late Cory Monteith's final performance; it's scheduled for release at some point later this year. I should also add that this particular interview marked my first interview in a relatively new Chicago hotel built in the first few floors of an office building I used to work in in my pre-Ain't It Cool days, which explains the beginning of this conversation. With that said, please enjoy my talk with Zoë Bell and Josh C. Waller…
[We sit down at a rather ornate conference table for the interview.]
Josh Waller: "Why do you feel like you’re qualified for this position?"
Capone: It’s funny you say that because back in the day when I used to have a day job, this was my office building. This is the first time I’ve been in here since I stopped working there.
Zoë Bell: Oh my god. I bet it feels so good to come in here and not be working.
Capone: Well this is a better kind of working, for sure. But yeah, when I saw the address, I couldn't believe it.
ZB: “Deja vu.”
Capone: Just 10 floors up from here, that’s where I worked.
JW: What did you do up there?
Capone: Magazine writing--trade journals and such. But nothing movie related. It's weird to be in here; I'm not going to lie.
ZB: [Plucks up one of the many hotel pens on the table] Well, you should take one of these very manly pens as a souvenir. Pink and gold.
Capone: What is that encrusted with?
ZB: Gold. you should definitely keep one of those. I’m keeping one to give to my dad. [laughs]
Capone: I love in this movie that this is a thing that’s been going on since ancient Greece. That’s wonderfully far reaching.
ZB: Steeped in history.
Capone: Why is that an important detail? Why did you want that as opposed to something that’s 10 years old.
ZB: "So, this year is the first year. Let’s try this out."
JW: Well, it’s a society of like men, women, children--families in this society that condone this. I feel like if it was not something that existed for thousands of years then it would never happen.
Capone: No one would have invented it.
JW: Yeah, it would have to be something where it’s steeped in tradition.
ZB: When you’re born into it, you don't question it as much.
JW: Right, if it’s like, this is what my parents did...
Capone: It’s exactly like religion.
JW: Well, that’s true, and that’s the way that like Joseph and Elizabeth [the ringleaders of the game, played by Doug Jones and Sherilyn Fenn[ look at it. His bloodline has been doing it for so long that it is a religion to him, and they truly believe every word that they are saying, that the reason that they do it is to empower women and show women what they're truly capable of one woman at a time, because 49 of them are going to die. One of them will live, and that person will be changed and that will spread. They will become part of society, and eventually the society will grow. So it gives it a little bit more validity if we had it steeped in history, and also it gives us the opportunity to where, in a sequel, we could always go back and do the first Raze tournament in the Colosseum.
ZB: Have cool costumes and stuff. And also, we're not seasoned filmmakers, we didn’t go, “Alright, we’re setting out to do this from step one.” We went, “Let's make a short film.” And it just blew up and ideas started happening. We came up with all of these cool ideas, because initially at one point, we were going to concentrate a lot more on the society and the family that's in the society, and then it became far more the story of the women. So there was that transition where we ended up not explaining all of the stuff that Josh just explained in the movie, but that was there at one point, and it’s there in our understanding of the society.
Capone: The women in this film are required to accomplish something so immense, both physically and emotionally. Was this the toughest acting work you’ve ever done?
ZB: Without a doubt.
Capone: Were you a little nervous about tackling something this emotional?
ZB: Technically, yes. It was one of those nice moments where it snowballs to the point where had someone just given me the fait accompli--“Here’s the script of this feature film; you’re going to carry it; and everybody that you hire on this movie, you will be beholden to to not fuck it up.” Had someone just given it to me like that, I think it would have scared the bejesus out of me. But in fact what happened was I came on board when it was small, and then I was involved in the creative end, and then like we started picking up steam, picking up crew, cast members came on. It was slow as we went.
I did so much preparation, even straight off the bat because I knew that this was a character that wasn’t something that would come to me by just getting in touch with a side of myself. I don’t have a kid and I’ve never taken someone's life and I can’t imagine really for serious what that would feel like. But as it went on, it definitely became very clear to me that this role was important, and that I owed this role the respect of working really hard and putting a lot into it as did I owe that to Josh and every crew member and every cast member. If I’m asking that of any of these guys, I can only ask at least that from myself.
As it was asked of me, I felt comfortable stepping up to the plate. When Josh first came to me, if he had said, “Here’s this film, it’s a feature and I want you to carry the whole thing.” I probably would have been like, “I don’t know if I’m capable or not.” And to be honest, I didn’t feel like I was capable until we finished the movie. When we finished the movie, I was like, “Holy crap. I learned a lot about me and about acting and about me as an actor.” Because I held myself responsible to so many other people, and the project removed me from whether I was going to be good enough or not. I’d be interested to see how he perceived me standing up to the pressure. [laughs] I was drunk everyday on set basically.
JW: Oh, we know how you withstood the pressure.
Capone: What's interesting about your character is that she's fighting to keep this child alive that she doesn't even know. She no real attachment to her. It would not have been that out of the question for her to just say, “What do I care if she dies?” But that’s not what happens. So what was the connection? Is it as simple as a maternal connection, or is there something else going on?
ZB: We talked a lot about this before we walked into it, because there are so many options for someone who is the kind of woman that Sabrina is. She says, “That’s not my daughter, do what you like. Go fuck yourself.” She could have stuck to that, but where we were going with it was that she has never felt that she was worthy of love or capable of loving, and she has given up this kid and is like, “What kid? Don't know what you're talking about.” So then when she starts connecting with [fellow prisoner] Cody on the other side of the wall, and they start to look to her for help as a type of leader or provider of support, or confidence, or safety, or security, something starts to trigger in her. And when there’s only her and her daughter in this room, she is now faced that she is a mother. Because I think up until that point, she’s in denial that she’s even a mother. So she's looking at this kid and watching this kid respond to her mother.
JW: Yeah, Sabrina’s not completely lying the first time that you talk about the daughter where she’s like, “That’s not my kid. I don't have a daughter.” She’s not lying there. That’s what she’s probably been saying to herself for the past 13 years.
ZB: She tried to stay believing that.
Capone: She's detached herself almost completely.
ZB: Yeah, and I think that's the thing: When she breaks down and is saying, “I named you. I had a name for you--it's giving me goose bumps just saying it--you were a person to me at some point, and if I’m honest, I’ve thought about you every fucking day. So I’ve been the hardened person I am so that I don’t have to admit that you exist. And now I’m stuck in a room with you , being forced to protect you.”
JW: Sabrina even says it in that scene where she says, “When you were born, when I had you, you were so perfect, and I’m flawed. I’m horribly flawed.” She was not right to be a mother at that time. At the time of the birth, she knew that she wasn’t fit to be a mother, and so she did what was best for the child and gave it up. Which is a motherly instinct, to protect the child. In order to protect the child from herself, she gave up the child. So now, 13 years later, it still falls in line with the reason why she gave it up in the first place, so she’s got to do it so Megan can still have her life with her foster parents.
Capone: Alright so enough about emotions; let’s talk about fighting. Before we dive into that, however, have you gotten any negative female response to the film yet?
JW: It hasn’t happened in a massive way.
ZB: Yeah, it's happened, but not in a way that I’ve been upset yet.
JW: There were a couple--which I totally expected--big media outlets, industry outlets that trashed it.
ZB: But that reporter was a man.
JW: Yeah, true. One of them was, and the other one was a woman.
ZB: One was a woman, yeah.
JW: But I anticipated getting crap reviews from them, and we always knew that like some people were going to say that it's exploitation and that we were using women and blah, blah, blah.
ZB: Of course. People give like amazing filmmakers shit reviews for stuff that freaks them out.
JW: But no direct, negative anything. Most of the time women have been like, “Fuck yes.” Seriously. We wanted to make a film that didn't treat women any differently than if they were men. I wanted to do the film as if it were men. So that’s why there’s no sexuality in there, there’s no nudity, there’s no sexual innuendo from the male guards, which I feel like you would almost always see in a movie like this.
Capone: I was waiting for it, but it didn’t happen.
JW: We had lines in the original script that we just got rid of all of it, because if we had had those moments in there, then I would be like, “Bring it on,” because now we deserve it.
ZB: Well, we also played with it to. If you’re going to have sexual innuendo, the reality in a situation like that is that there would probably be rape, and do we wanna go down that line? And I personally didn't. We don’t need to. That’s my next movie: RAPE, starring Zoe Bell. No, stop! Not funny…kind of funny.
Capone: That would be a gutsy move.
ZB: That would be a hideous role.
Capone: But there is an element though of, not sexualization, but dehumanization--dressing everybody the same and basically telling these women the only way you’re going to distinguish yourself is by winning. I guess that’s empowering in a way. I wasn't so much wondering if you were being accused of exploitation, but of stripping away of identity and humanity.
ZB: Do you think that when you watch a all-male fight movie?
Capone: There’s almost a fetishistic quality to it.
ZB: Well, isn’t it strange though? At what point would you be able so see it as completely non-fetish-istic? If you had them choose their own costumes? "Here’s the costume code; knock yourself out."
Capone: How about a red t-shirt instead of a white t-shirt?
ZB: [laughs] Yeah, I always loved the idea of the white tanks and the grey sweats, because it’s not about how hot women look when they roll around in the dirt because you remove that. And we wanted it to be: no one has weapons, no one has any added advantage or disadvantage other than what they bring to the ring. So that was the whole thing. You’ve all got the same clothes.
JW: It’s truly like the women stand out based on of their character. And fortunately the actors involved were all very strong characters and very unique. Everyone is different. Sabrina definitely has her own voice and so does Teresa and Cody and Phoebe. They all have their own voice, and it has nothing to do with the way that they dress; it has nothing to do with the way that they look. It has to do with the way that they are coming across emotionally and psychologically, and how they deal with that situation.
ZB: At the end of the day, if you’ve got a society that is kidnapping women and forcing them to fight to the death, yes, there’s fetishistic qualities that are just unavoidable because that’s part of the whole you know, it’s like gladiators. If you’ve got gladiators in a ring, it’s not like you give a shit what they're wearing.
Capone: One could make a case that there is a sexual element to gladiators. If you want to ask me, “Would you think that if it’s all men?” Yeah, I would actually.
ZB: Totally. We weren’t trying to say that there’s nothing sexual in it. We just didn’t want to be the ones that were dangling the sexuality.
JW: There's no need to feed into it. Look, the human race is turned on by violence. We always have been.
ZB: Hey, if you find women killing each other hot, Steve, that’s your own thing. [laughs]
JW: That’s your own thing, much like millions of other people.
Capone: I’m guessing on a bigger-budget film, whether you're acting in it or just doing stunt work, that you have a lot of prep time. If you had to learn something new, you’d have time to do that. Did you have that kind of opportunity with this film?
ZB: No, we didn’t have time during the day to shift anything. If you’re talking about choreography, I’m accustomed to switching within the shot. If someone throws a left and it’s supposed to be a right, then I shift and go with the right instead of the left. But we had done a lot of preparation. I had personally done a lot of preparation for my role, acting wise. I did less preparation for the action stuff than most of the other girls, simply because I need less preparation, but I was spending all of my time on Sabrina.
JW: It was like the opposite. She was working on the acting because she was super comfortable with all of the action stuff, and all the girls that usually just act and don’t do the action stuff were basically going through a three- to four-week like training bootcamp, where they would do boxing and training.
ZB: All because they wanted to. None of this was paid.
JW: Yeah, they were doing it on their own, driving on their own, and everyday training.
ZB: But during the shoot, that was one of the frustrations of having a time limit. If we wanted to change something, it was like, "Do we have time?" If we don’t, we just have to do with what we’ve got and see if we can make it work in the editing room, because we don't have time to re-choreograph something. Problem solving had to happen fast.
Capone: So how many fight sequences are there, and how many days did you have to shoot everything?
JW: There’s 19 action sequences, and we had 30 days.
Capone: That’s crazy.
JW: That is crazy.
Capone: And these aren’t short sequences. Who got hurt the worst?
JW: Nobody got hurt.
Capone: You'll have to do better than that.
ZB: No, I love that no one got hurt. Are you kidding me?
JW: The only thing that I would bring up which could be embarrassing to Rebecca [Marshall, who plays Phoebe] was the thing with Bailey [Anne Borders, who plays Cody]?
ZB: Oh, yeah.
JW: Phoebe and Cody, during that fight. I basically asked Phoebe to be kicking the corpse, which was Bailey. And we were off camera, and I was like, “What is that noise?” And we’d cut, and Rebecca had actually been kicking her. And we were like, “What is that?” And she was like, “I didn’t know.” Rebecca Marshall, who plays Phoebe, is like the exact opposite of Phoebe. So, like they would do all of these incredibly horrific, psychotic scenes, and at the end of the shoot day, she’d be just crying and decompressing, because it was so emotionally taxing.
Capone: Speaking of the clothes that you’re wearing, it occurred to me afterwards that unlike the guards that are all decked out in military gear, you're wearing tank tops and sweat pants--there’s not really anywhere for you to hide padding or whatever you might use to not get hurt.
ZB: The costumes started off with potentially bra and panties, and I was like, “Um, guys? I’d like to say something. How about some track pants? How about some sweats with knee pads?” And ironically no one really ended up wearing pads, because of my experience in the past of having to fall down stairs in négligées and shit like that. I was like, since we're going to be on the ground, we thought about using sand, and I was like, “Nah, I’ve worked on the sand, and you get hideous sand burns.” We used dirt, and we put a layer down of soft ply underneath wood and then some foam, so we’d done a lot of preparation.
JW: The dirt was like surprisingly soft.
ZB: Yeah, and it would get hard once we’d been rolling around on it. We always had someone in there with a spade to loosen it up. So there were precautions thought about well in advance. With the walls of the arena, there were places where it was not sandwiched straight up against the wall, so it had a little bit of give but wouldn't read, because I knew we weren't going to have time to bury mats and take mats out, but at the same time we didn’t want to make a movie with all of that with women wearing full combat suits. You want to see what's happening.
JW: The fight would literally 25 minutes for one fight. They can’t penetrate armor. “Ow, Ow, Ow.”
ZB: But the girls were all really willing, too. It was amazing, because I’ve worked with some amazing women that have set really high standards as actresses. So I’m like, “Look, if this woman can do this shit, you guys better step up to the plate.” But the women on this film were all gung-ho--durt in the face and they're like, “Keep going!”
Capone: What inspired this story? Where did this come from?
ZB: Personal experience.
JW: [laughs] Yeah, exactly.
Capone: Family history?
JW: "I lived this." [laughs] Yeah, Kenny Gage [credited with the story] had written a seven-page little short called RAZE, and it was basically the first fight. Sabrina and Jamie meeting each other and then the fight, and that was the thing. He had always known that he wanted to take it somewhere further, somewhere beyond that. He just didn’t know exactly what it was, but he just knew that it was a part of something bigger.
ZB: And he'd had the idea for ages, didn’t he?
JW: Yeah, and he'd asked me if I would take a look at it as a producer, not as a director. “What do you think of this?” Just my thoughts as a friend, and I read it and said, “I think there’s something here.” But in that version, it was the girls with bras and panties; it was like big boobed pinup girls.
ZB: And then me [laughs].
JW: No one was involved; Kenny just had this thing. And so I read it and was like, “I like this. I think there’s something here. It’s not exactly this. I have some ideas.” And so then Kenny and I just tarted nerding out like, “Oh, what if this happened? What if this happened?” There was a version--nobody knows this, so I’ll leak it to you--where they are a cannibalistic society.
ZB: But that was until really late in the process.
JW: Yeah, I know. There was a version.
ZB: No, I know I’m explaining it, because it sounds like that was only really early on.
JW: Yeah, but we shot a version.
Capone: You shot that?
JW: We shot it, and then I edited it out.
Capone: Wait, who was eating who?
JW: It would have been the society.
Capone: The people upstairs were eating the losers?
JW: Yeah, that’s why you see all of those knives with all the women; they’re being slaughtered.
ZB: The fighters are technically being tenderized.
JW: Yeah, it’s all part of pulverizing and tenderizing the meat that they’re going to.
Capone: That might have garnered some unwanted laughter.
JW: I know, right?
ZB: Well, we were like, "Do we want the laughter, or do we not?"
Capone: You pretty much stripped this thing of all humor expect for maybe Doug Jones’ scenes.
JW: That’s funny though, because we laughed constantly. I think there are a lot of humorous moments in it.
Capone: I'd assuming you'd kept the humor because it was important that it be treated seriously.
ZB: And we did. There’s not really jokes, but there are moments where I would watch and just crack up.
Capone: There are some good insults.
JW: There’s stuff that I love. If you cut away to the two workers that take care of the women’s bodies afterwards, every time you’re in their room, it’s playing like hokey Mexican Mariachi music, for no reason. It was like, “Oh, this will be funny. This is a nice little character thing.” And I always laugh when like Tracie [Thoms] is asked, “What do you think we should do?” And she’s like, “Kill these motherfuckers.” And I’m always like, “Yeah, that’s right.”
ZB: And there’s one point where every time Doug’s banging on about “My society, blah, blah, blah.” And this and that, and there’s a moment when you roll the camera to Sabrina, and Sabrina’s just like, “Still, we’re going on about this shit?”
JW: She’s just rolling her eyes.
ZB: Those are the parts that we find funny. But yes, I think you’d have to watch the movie a couple of times before you start discovering the humor in it.
JW: A couple of hundred times, I guess.
ZB: Yeah, that’s possible.
Capone: Zoe, now that you’re doing so much acting, are you a little more hesitant to take on something that’s strictly stunt work because if you got hurt it might impede your acting career?
ZB: It’s funny, I hadn’t really thought about it like that actually. But yes, I have been more hesitant to take on strictly stunt jobs more. For a long time, I was saying that so that people were going to hire me in the outside world and would more comfortably perceive me as an actor as opposed to a stuntwoman who does dialogue. But, what I’ve realized is actually the person who needed that clarification the most was me. And so severing myself from doing strictly stunt stuff, I’ve been forced to take myself seriously as an actor, and therefore people naturally are starting to because I do.
I think before I was apologetic about the fact that, “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be an actor, but Quentin put me here, and I don't feel like I deserve it.” So I was always saying people won't take me seriously as an actor, so I need to remove myself from the stunt world, but actually what’s happened is I now, especially after RAZE, take myself more seriously as an actor, which then just demands that other people do. It's sort of backwards from what I expected was going to happen.
JW: Yeah, we were talking once where you were saying that like, “If I’m going to make a go of the acting thing, I’m deciding right now to make a full on go of it. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.”
ZB: As hard as it is, it requires my full attention. Acting is an art, and it requires dedication, education, and experience, and if I’m like the stunt girl who wants to be an actor occasionally then that’s not really giving it the respect that it deserves.
JW: Yeah, and in doing that it’s in a weird way insulting to all the other people that are in the same peer group that are busting their ass.
Capone: There’s nothing actors hate more than working with someone who’s doing it part time.
ZB: Yeah, totally. “Whoops. Sorry guys, I just landed a role accidentally. I know you’ve been slaving your guts out your whole life, but...” [laughs]
JW: I guess there’s nothing worse than someone who actually takes it very seriously and makes it look easy enough like it is part time. And they’re like, “Yeah, just going to come and [pretends to cry,]” and they cut and they go to their trailer, and you’re like, “You fucker.”
Capone: You had another film premiere at Toronto, McCANICK, which has a great cast, including Cory Monteith, and I think that’s his last film, correct? Or there might be something else that hasn’t come out yet.
JW: Yeah, he did that and he did another film, but yeah he shot McCANICK last.
Capone: Tell me about the film.
JW: McCANICK was a film that I’ve been trying to get off the ground for about nine years. And I was planning on it being like my first feature, and then RAZE just, dare I say, kind of happened really organically, like, “Hey, let’s do this. And let’s do this little piece. Okay, I guess we’re making this feature movie. Okay.” And at the same time, I had secured the funds for McCANICK and had set a date for it that we were shooting in Philadelphia. So when we were doing RAZE--because we didn’t have the money yet for the feature RAZE--it was like, “If we’re going to do this, we have until this particular date at this time to get the money, otherwise we have to push until after McCANICK. We have this window to get it.” And we got the money at like 5 o’clock on that day that we set the deadline
McCANICK is my baby. It was my passion project--myself and my producing partner Daniel Noah, who’s partners at SpectreVision with Elijah Wood and I. Daniel wrote it, and it’s an homage to the films that inspired us to become filmmakers in the first place, like THE FRENCH CONNECTION, BULLET, DIRTY HARRY, DOG DAY AFTERNOON, and all of these like gritty crime dramas, crime thrillers of the late '60s, early '70s.
Capone: Is it set in that period?
JW: No, it’s set today, but there’s definitely a nod to it, maybe a little bit too much of a nod kind of thing, but who cares? It’s about a cop named Eugene McCanick played by David Morse. It all takes place over the course of 24 hours, and he finds out that a convict that he put away seven years prior, the character Simon Weeks, played by Cory, has been released and against the orders of his captain, played by Ciaran Hinds, to stay away from this character, he tracks him down over the course of this day with the intention of killing him, and we don’t know why. So over the course of the film, the main question is, who is Simon Weeks? Who is this character, and why is McCanick so obsessed with chasing this guy down to kill him? And over the course of the day, he does some atrocious things,and it’s intense and very, very different than RAZE.
Capone: What’s the plan with that one in terms of getting it out?
JW: Well Go USA picked it up. They bought it at Toronto, and it’s going to be released probably within two months of when like RAZE comes out, I think. RAZE is coming out on January 10, and then McCANICK will also have a limited theatrical.
Capone: And Zoe, what do you have coming up after this? I know you have a couple things that you’ve shot already.
ZB: Yeah, there’s a couple of things. One’s called DOUGLAS BROWN, it’s about to do the film festival circuit. It’s in the final stages of post. There’s another little movie called FRESH WATER that a friend of mine is producing.
Capone: Yeah, I’ve heard of that one. That’s the kids-in-the-woods thing.
ZB: Kids in the lake, basically. Yeah, totally. And I’m an alligator expert. I’d just like you to know that I know everything there is to know about alligators.
Capone: Are you going to have your accent?
ZB: No, I have like one of these accents on like, [puts on a Southern accent] “Excuse me, do you know what you’re doing right now?” Yup. I totally love it. I loved doing the Southern accent. I had such a blast doing this movie.
JW: You should have chew in your mouth. Oh wait, you already did the character, that’s right.
ZB: Yeah we shot it; it’s in post.
JW: Damn it. Can you put a big bulge in your lip in post?
ZB: In post? Is there a lip-bulge budget? So, those two things are coming out. I’ve got a couple of projects that are in early developmental stages in my head, and I'm talking to other people that I’m probably prematurely excited about, but I’m excited all the same. And at the moment, it’s mostly just RAZE for me. I’m happy to be putting all of my energy and attention into having people either loving or hating this movie.