More on T3, and Arnold from multiple sources...
Well Father Geek here with a big story thats got all the net abuzzzzzz... It looks like Arnold IS doing TERMINATOR III in 2001 as Harry reported in his story on THE BIG OAK a little earlier. Here's just 3 of the dozens of sources that have flooded Geek Headquarters with mail today. This first little tidbit came in from Evan Kutaj...
Here's a little news for you. I was watching the "Tonight Show: With Jay Leno" and Leno mentioned that Arnold Schwarzenegger told "Access Hollywood" that he was going to star in "Terminator: 3". He made a joke saying that instead of his catch phrase being "I'll be back", it would now be "Ow, my back". I guess this means he's agreed to do the film, but I would look for more proof. I swear on this info. See ya.
The Sober Dutchman sent us the following story from VARIETY...
The Sober Dutchman here: WHAT'S THIS? DOES THIS ADD UP? NO CAMERON, BUT SCHWARTZY ONBOARD? I'M PUZZLED AND AMAZED!
From todays Variety:
TERMINATOR LIVES AGAIN
By DANA HARRIS
Arnold Schwarzenegger has signed on to star in "Terminator 3," the latest installment of the mega-blockbuster franchise produced by Mario Kassar and Andy Vajna.
"T3" will be produced through Kassar and Vajna's C-2 Pictures and is currently slated for a late spring 2001 start. VCL and Toho-Towa have signed on as co-financiers, but currently there are no other attachments on the project.
Both the 1984 "The Terminator" and the 1991 sequel "Terminator 2: Judgment Day" were directed by James Cameron, but he has stated that he has no intention of revisiting the property, which is based on a character he originally wrote with Gale Ann Hurd.
Kassar and Vajna spent $8 million to buy the underlying rights of the "Terminator" franchise in the 1997 Carolco Pictures bankruptcy auction.
From AB king we have the following which appeared on Schwarzenegger.com earlier...
This latest news was first broke by Schwarzenegger.com and the webmaster that runs that board:
SCHWARZENEGGER PUTS TERMINATOR 3 INTO ACTION
(Los Angeles, CA, June 21, 2000) C-2 Pictures, headed by Andy Vajna and Mario Kassar, announced today that Arnold Schwarzenegger is back as the cyborg in TERMINATOR 3, the third installment of the blockbuster sci-fi action saga.
T3 will be the first production from C-2 Pictures, the new filmed entertainment company founded and headed by former Carolco Pictures principals Andy Vajna and Mario Kassar. Principle photography is scheduled to commence in Los Angeles in late Spring 2001.
"We've been working long and hard to bring Terminator back to the screen and to have Arnold aboard," said Vajna. "This project brings together a team that has had fantastic successes and we look forward to working together again on this much anticipated project.
Schwarzenegger, whose top-grossing action films include CONAN THE BARBARIAN, PREDATOR, TRUE LIES, TOTAL RECALL, END OF DAYS (which took in nearly $220 million world-wide), ERASER, the original TERMINATOR and TERMINATOR 2 is reigniting movie-goers appetites for big action pictures by extending the TERMINATOR franchise with T3. It will, arguably, be the biggest release of Summer, 2002 and herald the return of the blockbuster mega-movie.
Schwarzenegger just finished THE SIXTH DAY with Robert Duvall, directed by Roger Spottiswoode for Phoenix and Columbia Pictures. He starts shooting COLLATERAL DAMAGE for Warner Bros. in September with Andy Davis directing. Projects presently in negotiation for Schwarzenegger include CRUSADE by Walon Green and DOC SAVAGE for producers Chuck Russell and Frank Darabont. Darabont is in discussions to direct.
To date, Schwarzenegger's 25 films have grossed north of 52 billion.
The script is by Tedi Sarafian (Tank Girl, Solar Crisis). Development of T3 was co-financed with C-2 by Toho Towa and VCL. The two companies have the option of distributing in their respective territories. No other distribution is set but a studio deal is expected.
While no director is currently attached, Schwarzenegger has expressed his desire to reteam with James Cameron, director of the previous Terminator pictures. "My big wish is that Jim Cameron and I will work together again," says Schwarzenegger.
T3 will continue the series that began with the 1984 Orion Pictures release, THE TERMINATOR, produced by James Cameron and Gale Ann Hurd. The 1991 sequel, TERMINATOR 2: JUDGEMENT DAY was a Carolco Pictures production released by Columbia Tri-Star. It grossed over $500 million worldwide in theatrical release.
Rights to the Terminator series were acquired by C-2 from Gale Ann Hurd's Lightstorm Entertainment as well as well as from the sale of Carolco Pictures assets. C-2 now owns all rights to the Terminator franchise.
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June 22, 2000, 2:41 a.m. CST
This kinda makes me nervous. Sounds like it could be pretty bad... then again, it could be pretty good. Of course, it's not like we've been expecting all that much from Arnold recently. I'll just have to wait nervously and pray each and every minute, as I wet my pants, that this is as good as the last two installments... OR... I'll just comepletely forget/ignore this until it actually matters. Toin coss, really.
June 22, 2000, 2:55 a.m. CST
by Meat Takeshi
This is going to be as lame as the rest of his recent output. Oh yeah isn't there a certain other lightsabre featuring Blockbuster due for release in summer 2002. To compete with that, T3 would have to be kiddie friendly and the fanboys won't like that. Leave the property alone, i think Arnuhlt is returning to the well once to often to revive his flagging career.
June 22, 2000, 2:57 a.m. CST
by Private Ryan
I'm glad Schwartzenger is on board. They shouldn't do it without him. But they also should not do it without Cameron...this one doesn't sound all that exciting to me.
June 22, 2000, 3:17 a.m. CST
Schwarzenegger is old. Cameron is unintersted. And these scavengers that snagged the sequel rights will crank the old shit wheel to make this as cheaply as possible (i.e. Bush League script, barely-above Bush League Director. etc.). The Terminator series ended in 1991. Hasta la vista, FanBoys.
June 22, 2000, 3:23 a.m. CST
awesome. Will Arnold play Robocop? seriously though, without Cameron, how good is this gonna be? Oh well.
June 22, 2000, 3:31 a.m. CST
I don't think the producers will hand this off to any idiotic director.......Uh wait....Didn't they produce "Conan the Destroyer"? Oh no...OH NO!!!!!! Whoa...Uh well, Arnie will save it, I mean since when has he been involved in the destroying of a franchise? .....Uh wait he was in "Batman and Robin" wasn't he?!?! OH NO, OOOOHHH NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 22, 2000, 3:41 a.m. CST
If they do go forth with this project they shouldn't have any more time-travel crap. I think (and I may be wrong)that the next film should be set in the future, during the war, with Arnie as a bad Terminator once again. But, it shouldn't be quite as bleak as the future in the others. Now I'm not saying it shouldn't be as violent or dark, just no so freaking ugly. Two hours of that would make me sick. Maybe it should be set right when the war is starting, or in a different part of the world or something. And no "Matrix"-type crap. "The Terminator" movies set the stage for that film, and shouldn't ape its style. If they do, they get a watered-down version of something that was already watered down.
June 22, 2000, 3:46 a.m. CST
Arnold.. is over.. he is old .. not really built (hit the juice again)..has the worst eye/face surgery.. and his dyed hair..what color is that?? ( I am 29 and I have a couple gray hairs..lol) and other course he can't speak ( forget about act).. the funniest movie was Jingle All The Way.. when Arnold tried to expaned past a grunt.. and played a WASP/middle american suburban father!! ( that was funny as hell)..
June 22, 2000, 3:55 a.m. CST
by Original Evil
I thought Tank Girl was a rather superior Comic to Movie adaptation.
June 22, 2000, 4:02 a.m. CST
Well,loco you know what Arnold would say if he read your comments?!?!Huh?!?! Probably, "Maria, my muscular heart is breaking. I'll be in the Humvee." See loco you've made him cry, and that was just not nice. And his career isn't as bad as Steven Seagal's. I mean, the guy is putting on a concert at Soboba Casino!!!!!!! In Hemet, California!!!!!!! He will actually be singing!!!!!! First "Fire Down Below", and now this???? Poor guy.
June 22, 2000, 4:02 a.m. CST
Is it just me or does Arnies signing for T3 smell like the desperate act of a man who knows his time is over? And if Cameron is not writing and directing T3 - please, forget it, this will suck, and I have the nagging feeling the next two Arnie films will also suck. It's nothing personal, Arnold.
June 22, 2000, 4:04 a.m. CST
What's your beef with TANK GIRL? It was (along with the CROW) the best comics-based film of the 1990s. Anyway presuming Cameron's NOT going to be involved, I wonder if Arnold got his blessing and/or what his reaction will be? I agree that without Cameron the film will most likely be an eye-candy jackoff and I will certainly consider it non-canonical (or is that non-Cameronical?). Of course they could always surprise me but...i don't expect it. I'd even settle for the rumour bandied about a year or two ago, ie "script/story" by Cameron. Hmm if the whole thing's set in the future.....maybe Arnold will play not the terminator but a captured human warrior Skynet used as a physical model for that particular T-800 line (remember the script and novel both describe the "terminator warehouse" where there hundreds of unactivated terminators hanging in cold storage, which were in rows of ten, identical in each row). This could conceivably explain Arnold's aging....Skynet just "aged" the terminator backward. And I agree with the MATRIX comment: without the TERMINATOR films the MATRIX would have been unlikely (though I still feel DARK CITY was far superior to MATRIX). Of course it can and should take advantage of the TECHNICAL advances of the last 10 years, it can do so withou being the TERMINATOR films reimagined through the MATRIX looking glasss to appeal to a younger audience. It's kinda like how late 80's Ozzy patterned his visual/image thing after all the cheesy lame late 80's glam metal guys that he himself influenced.....it became almost self-parody. Hopefully that won't happen here. ANd I think they shoudl wait till 2003 and avoid competing with EP 2. We'll see....... firstname.lastname@example.org
June 22, 2000, 4:21 a.m. CST
by Bari Umenema
But if Cameron opts to sit on the sidelines look for Peter Hyams to Direct -- that's right sports fans, for it was Cameron who suggested to Arnold that Hyams be brought in to do End of Days after Marcus Nispel flaked out. Don't knock Hyams -- he has the f/x knowhow to do a good job on this; not as good as Cameron would do but adequate to the task at hand, and remember: you read it here first buckos. Touche Boys Touche!!!
June 22, 2000, 4:46 a.m. CST
by jak flash 2000
I say we make an Alien versus Terminater versus Predator. That way we get Alien 5, Predator 3 and Terminater 3 all in one. I am glad Arnie is in. Maybe this time he will be a t-1000. Cameron should return. Its his creation! Why should anyone let their creation their creation that gave him fame and produced one of the best sequals ever made. I wouldnt let it go down in flames. I would at least write and produce. What Cameron forgets is that the best film series are alway made as a trilogy. Also he is doing True Lies two right now. He better make both Terminater and True Lies a trilogy or else when I become a director I will go and rip him a new . . . You get the idea.
June 22, 2000, 4:58 a.m. CST
I thought that the purchase of the Terminator franchise was for them to make T3 and T4 back to back. What is happening about T4? Will we see Conner as an adult? And how can they surpass some of the Dark Horse comics-especially Terminator VS Robocop?
June 22, 2000, 5:31 a.m. CST
if T2 made $500 Million then you would need 104 films as big as T2 to pull-in $52 BILLION!!! How did arnold do it with only 25 films??? Fucking Nuts!!!!! Bull-Ass-Crap!! (Video sales & Toys...still BS!!!) -Duty
June 22, 2000, 5:34 a.m. CST
by Buck Pages
What the story going to be this time, they are going to make some bullshit story that are convenetly falls into place, but don't kill off the cyborg if you make T4
June 22, 2000, 5:34 a.m. CST
Thats it, Vin kicks ass, thats it!!! Whoohoooo -Duty
June 22, 2000, 5:39 a.m. CST
by Meat Takeshi
How can anyone, that enjoyed the comics, seriously have enjoyed the film when its almost opposed to everyting thats good in the books.
June 22, 2000, 5:59 a.m. CST
Not to change the topic of this discussion but I was rzther under the impression that it was fairly faithful in tone and the comic's creators were happy with it
June 22, 2000, 6:51 a.m. CST
She's just lovely and that voice just melts me... Anyhoo, I forgot what the subject was so I'll just all googly-eyed for a while...Lori...**sighhhhhhhh......
June 22, 2000, 7:11 a.m. CST
by RightWing Dude
Another incentive for Lucas to make "Episode II" better. I still say it's a mistake to make "T3". The entire story concerning the war and the creation of the Terminator'was resolved at the end of "T2", one of the greatest films ever made. I'll be really angry if this film doesn't at least measure up to "Judgement Day", but it's like someone wrote in a post on another board: "this film is only being made not for artistic purposes, but because the producers want to make more money", and I couldn't agree more with that statement.
June 22, 2000, 7:55 a.m. CST
by Palmer Eldritch
Hewlett and martin hated the fiim version of "Tank Girl", they Really. Fucking. Hated it, and made no baones about saying so afterwards (despite the fact that they'd been quite deeply involved in its development).
June 22, 2000, 8:34 a.m. CST
Arnold's total worldwide gross for all of his films combined is $2.9 Billion U.S. Dollars...not 52 Billion. Who the hell are they trying to fool? Especially with so many professional Box Office Analysts on the Internet now. These are Arnold Schwarzenegger's Box Office Totals...Worldwide: $2.900 Billion...North America: $1.323 Billion...The Average Gross for Schwarzenegger's films is $57.5 Million...and Arnold's Average Opening Weekend average is $18.5 Million Dollars per film. That figure they reported in not only ridiculous, but misleading. You can find Domestic Box Office figures for all of Mr. Schwarzenegger's films at The Movie Times ( http://the-movie-times.com/thrsdir/actors/arnold.html )...Take care.
June 22, 2000, 8:37 a.m. CST
That was about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Do you honestly think that with what we know about the theories of time travel that that was the end? End of what? Does a loop end? How do we even know that the chip wasn't already being replicated. Maybe the records had it wrong. Oh and don't get me started on the fact that the Arnie Terminator wasn't massed produced. Yeah right. Next time you open your mouth think.
June 22, 2000, 9:45 a.m. CST
Yes--it does sound like he is desperate...It didnt help him that he gets paid so much that every project he attempts to do gets derailed because of cost. I think Harrison Ford is starting to have the same problem and maybe Tom Cruise will be next(hope so!). Here's my idea for T3. It turns out that Skynet sent terminators into the past as a decoy--not to change the future. It had never wanted to destroy the earth's technology like it had been forced to when they tried to pull the plug on it. It was left with a wasteland afterall. So, it created the time displacement equipment to send ITSELF back in time--say--to the mid eighties, to take over with little resistance. I can see it taking over a warehouse and an army of those T-100's and T-1000s storming out of the factory doors on a nice sunny afternoon. Dont know how arnold would fit into it though. :)
June 22, 2000, 9:49 a.m. CST
Damn. Thats a figure i find hard to believe...Not only was that film just plain shit, it also got some of the saddest reviews ive ever seen... Before i saw the movie i had plenty of ideas about how that movie was going to end, and lo and behold, the plot was so predictable that i just HAD to see the ending just so i could justify my worst fears: Arnie is dead! DEAD I TELL YOU!! If he had ANY acting skills, he could probably do an Eddie Murphy and find a new schtick, but its going to take a lot more than a semi-successful T3 to revive that sack of shit. And Denmark lost BAAD in the EURO 2000, maybe thats why i am so pissed...Who cares.... NUXX OUT....
June 22, 2000, 9:49 a.m. CST
Another Terminator movie featuring Ahh-nold could mean anything. It could mean some cheezy P.O.S. like Alien 3 or Robocop 3 and the last dying twitch of an old washed-up legend ... or it could mean the return of Arnold "Ah'll be bahhk" Schwartzenegger we all knew and loved in the 80's, accompanied by a cool story and awesome effects. I do hope and pray that they will do the story set in the future, the story of John Conner and how they were able to send back the protectors, because anything extending the storyline from the second movie would be ludicrous and contrived.
June 22, 2000, 9:59 a.m. CST
Yes, that figure is unbelievably ridiculous, as is the "return of the box-office mega blockbuster" statement - Gee, we don't have any of those about five times a summmer??? Biggest movie of 2002? Star Wars Epsisode II anybody? LOTR anybody? What a joke. As for the box office, about 3 billion sound right, of course in fairness to Arnie(even though those numbers themselves are huge), you'd have to adjust for inflation to equate that to today's market. Conan may have grossed X dollars and had an X opening weekend, but it would be 2-3 times higher if you adjusted for inflation, so that puts that into perspective compared to today's films and their grosses. Also, this "opening weekend" phenomenon is a relatively new thing, and it was on the rise in the eighties but exploded in the nineties, where opening weekend became the big thing. Same for foreign grosses - foreign take has increased amazingly in the last half of the nineties, as developing countries build theaters and get our product. So even with adjusting for inflation, it's hard to get a gauge, comparing one actor to another in terms of box-office.
June 22, 2000, 10:04 a.m. CST
ok, so this is what we have sunk to? A half-assed script by a hack writer? Jesus, I thought the world was saved the last time around. Can't we get something worth doing a sequel to?
June 22, 2000, 12:19 p.m. CST
by Buzz Maverik
And I ain't seeing it. I will see Doc Savage, especially if it gets the Doc books back in print, so do Doc Savage, Arnold, or step aside so they get someone else even if he's not as good for the role of Doc as you are.
June 22, 2000, 12:20 p.m. CST
by Syd Mead
Not be off topic but it is. As for T3...WHY$?$ I'd rather see an old wrinkled Conan The King go out Braveheart/ Gladiator style than hack job a what came before. Remember Alien3??? Sorry if you liked that one but for MOST of us that one sucked and this will to. --Syd
June 22, 2000, 12:34 p.m. CST
by Blok Narpin
Letterman used that "Owch, My back" joke in a tope ten list Years ago. The List was "The Top Ten ways you know that Arnold is getting older". One of them was in his next movie the line "I'll be back" will be replaced with "Owch, My back". Good going, Leno. Bend Dave over and F**K him! You big jawed bastard! ANYwho on to T3. This movie MUST be made to clear up the BIG BIG plot hole in T2. Ive always said that if they make a T3 then T2 is a good movie, but if they leave it at 2, then 2 sucks. The reason is simple. AT the End of T2 they indicate that they have succeeded and that Skynet will NOT come into existance. WRONG!! They FAILED in T2 and Skynet WILL come into existence. Why? Easy. If they had succeeded then John Connor would have been erased from existance. No Skynet means that no Terminator would have come back to kill Sarah in T1, and that means Johns father wouldnt have come back to protect her and that means he wouldnt have impregnated her with John. If they had truly prevented Skynet John would have faded into nothingness just like Marty almost did in Back to the Future when he botched up his parents first date. Therefore there MUST be a T3. If this film is truely to take place in the future with an adult John leading the war as I have heard then Arnold isnt even needed. It stands to reason that his model Terminator unit is long since outdated, (heck it was outdated in 2!! Thats why there was Robert Patrick!) If Arnold wants to do it then great but they really dont need him.
June 22, 2000, 12:45 p.m. CST
It`s amazing how most of you who were jerking off when T2 came out,are now knocking the franchise because it`s trendy to knock Arnie. When are you gonna learn that Matrix was not the ultimate sci-fi movie(it ripped off Dark City for a start),just wait and see instead of instant criticism,assholes....
June 22, 2000, 12:51 p.m. CST
...lay off Arnie you arseholes. So what if he's old? I bet you'd give all your Star Wars toys to be half the guy he is at a frikkin hundred! He can still kick your weedy butts into next week!
June 22, 2000, 12:58 p.m. CST
This is one those ideas that is a total crapshoot. Depending on the talent involved, it could be terrific, or it could turn out one notch away from "Plan 9 from Outer Space." (Sort of like "Hannibal.") What intrigues me is not Arnold's or James Cameron's participation (although of course they'd both be instrumental in goosing up the success potential); I'm more intrigued by working out a logical extension of the first two movies. Think about it: The first movie was perfect; the closed loop that answered all the questions it posed. The second movie -- more expensive, though I wouldn't say any more viscerally powerful -- broke the loop, basically saying that we're taking back the set-up from the first movie, the events that started the whole story in motion in the first place are now nullified. If the movie had had the time-adjusting-itself sensibility of the "Back to the Future" movies, Arnold wouldn't have had to fight the T-1000 in the foundry or destroy himself at the end -- he and John Connor would have both faded into nothingness when Joe Morton's character died, taking the whole floor of the building with him. (And before the yahoos start screeching, I'm not saying they should have done this, it's just an easy way of understanding the inherent paradox the writers failed to explain.) I've tried to come up with a solution for these problems ever since the movie was initially released, and never came up with anything that didn't feel like a cheat. (Such as one of the original Terminator's chips had already been duplicated -- besides, wasn't Judgment Day in 1999?) We'll see; and frankly, I'm much more excited by the possibility of Arnold stepping into the shoes of the Man of Bronze. There's a franchise that could kick some serious ass, if they do it right.
June 22, 2000, 1:11 p.m. CST
I have completely lost my capacity to be surprised at the desperation of Hollywood ... it's like there's a cabal of Hollywood execs who are implementing an evil plan to utterly destroy filmed entertainment as a business. Gee, let's put Sylvester Stallone in a new Rocky movie! Let's bring back Indiana Jones! Get me Al Pacino: GODFATHER IV will rule summer of 2002! Have we totally killed off our audience yet? Okay, what about Bill Murray in MEATBALLS VS STRIPES? I'm sure John Travolta is setting up meetings all over town to pitch SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER III since he only alienated a small audience with BATTLEFIELD EARTH. I bet there's a meeting going on right now, involving the studio execs who gave us GODZILLA, GONE IN 60 SECS, and PHANTOM MENACE: they're trying to figure out why millions of people are still shelling out money to see their movies. Maybe if they put Sylvester Stallone in the next STAR WARS installment, maybe that'll finally kill off the last moviegoers. Maybe casting Leo di Caprio will do it, or maybe if they spin off Jar Jar Binks into his own series of $140 million behemoths will finally exterminate the last moron lining up to throw away nine bucks. Anyone still out there? Rats! Okay, bring on the remake of CANNONBALL RUN! Get Burt Reynolds on the phone! Christ, CANNONBALL RUN grossed $190 million worldwide? We're forced to drop the Doomsday device: Jim Carrey reprising all of Peter Sellars' roles in DR. STRANGELOVE, with Ben Affleck as Major King Kong, Quentin Tarantino as Gen. Jack D. Ripper, and Chris Farley as Gen. Buck Turgidson. What? Farley is dead? Well, can't ILM just digitally reanimate him? That's why Michael Bay is directing -- he's good with special effects. Jesus Christ, the weekend opened to $80 million dollars? Harry Knowles liked it? Can't we do anything right? Fine, they asked for it. Our secret weapon: CITIZEN KANE 2000: directed by Jason Bloom (BIO DOME), starring Ryan Phillipe as Kane, Neve Campbell as Susan Alexander, and Casper van Dien as Jedediah. We'll get Roger Kumble to write the script! If this doesn't bomb, then we use anthrax on the friggin audience.
June 22, 2000, 1:14 p.m. CST
by Roman Bridger
or do I! I ordered Fight Club. That RULES! I think T3 might be pretty good, but won't have any of the genius Cameron puts into his work like he did with T and T2. Nuff' Said.
June 22, 2000, 1:22 p.m. CST
I mean, not only are you getting another Terminator, but Arnold's in it !!!! I mean, instead of jumping for joy, you guys are bashing him??? HE DID IT FOR US, NOT FOR HIMSELF!!!! The guy's rich you know, and his movies still make money. Ok, he's had some bad movies but NOT ALL. His action movies still RULE!! I would imagine his worst action movie would be Eraser, and that movie was pretty good even though it was overshadowed by The Rock that summer. (Yes, I LIKED (NOT LOVED) LAH!!!)Other than Eraser and LAH, all of his action movies including Conan 2 were good. You guys should really stop bashing him cause if he stops Crusade and Conan the King, then we're all fucked!!
June 22, 2000, 1:32 p.m. CST
I can 100% say that Cameron is going to do Terminator 3. I have heard this news from very very reliable sources. Arnold had agreed to deny that he would star unless cameron was doing the movie, this made it sound like cameron was not doing it. The movie will be written (has been) and directed by James Cameron and will star Arnold. There is no point in me trying to tell you loads of info, as you probably wont believe me. Just wait a little while and it will all be confirmed by James Cameron.
June 22, 2000, 1:47 p.m. CST
by EL Duderino
Star Wars Episode 2, Matrix 2 and now this, it should really be a kick ass one like last year's was. But why the hell is Mario Kassar getting the screenwriter of the horrible TANK GIRL to write a screenplay for T3? Get somebody good, get Sam Hamm or somebody of equal quality. Don't screw up the movie this early in production.
June 22, 2000, 2:06 p.m. CST
A return to Big Budget Blockbusters???
June 22, 2000, 2:19 p.m. CST
by Mr E
First of all, Mario Kassar was the producer and co-producer on the terminator films so I don't think T3 will suck in any fashion. I don't know anything about this loser scriptwriter but Cameron will come on board and set things straight, terminator is his creation. And for all you nimrods cutting down the OAK who is your action hero? Keaunu? He's only had two films over a hundred mill. Plus he's actually a woman. Harrison Ford? Please!!! When's the last time he's made a good movie? Six days and seven bombs!! HA HA Or how about Episode Two coming out the same summer. Jar Jar ain't dead so that will suck like the last one. Sure T3 won't make the most money that summer because it will be reated R not PG-13 like girly Episode 2. But if the master directs (Cameron)it will be a masterpiece like all his other films.
June 22, 2000, 2:25 p.m. CST
Make it terminator vs alien vs predator,bring back Robert Patrick as T1000 and have the Rock in it. Most of all, get Linda Hamilton in it and DO NOT have that Edward Furlong in it.
June 22, 2000, 2:25 p.m. CST
"Skynet" is all the Celluar & Pager services merging into one Evil Empire bent on destroying the world with radiation to our brains, Cell-phone distracted-bad drivers & high prices for sh*tty service. Sounds good huh?
June 22, 2000, 3:08 p.m. CST
This always bothered me after seeing T-2... Arnold loses one of his arms in a battle scene with the t-1000. It gets kinda crushed up, but technically part of him is there to be developed into Skynet...
June 22, 2000, 3:36 p.m. CST
Give me a break you guys. You bitch about EVERYTHING. Yeah, it is the in thing to do as far as rip on Arnold, Lucas, etc. Well, Arnold has had VERY few flops in my opinion... END OF DAYS, JUNIOR, that damn x-mas movie, along with some MINOR failures. But when oneof his films make $100 million here in the u.s... it makes another $500 million ou tof the country! Pretty good numbers for a "desperate guy". Quality wise... I think his stuff will continue to be great. I would rahter have him do CRUSADE over this, but both will do. Either way, you guys will bitch.
June 22, 2000, 4:04 p.m. CST
Great stuffs. I always want to see big Arnie schwartsnigger back doing tErminations. He great actors and I wish they also bring back Bob Padrick as the eveil terminations. I wolso like that they do a kind of war movie with aliens and shit. It would be great. What do think??? Meeza Wuv you guys!!! http://go.to/meezamonkey
June 22, 2000, 4:06 p.m. CST
The end of T2 was good, it was open ended and neither really positive or negative. Now why do they have to go and do this crap and why does everything need to be a fucking trilogy. Do you really think Cameron wanted to do a three when he wrapped T2... of course not (however you could say the same thing about T1)! Arnold sucks now he is one of those actors who automatically makes a parody of his former self. Did anyone see him at that wrestling thing back in the fall? "Go see my new movie...end of days or go rent my Holiday classic...Jingle all da way! I'm sorry it is gonna be fucking weak. By the way, in terminator, wasn't the world supposed blow up in August of '97? See they're just gonna go back on the origional story and make it weak.
June 22, 2000, 4:16 p.m. CST
Then they can all sit back and enjoy the holiday classic, "jingle all da way".
June 22, 2000, 4:53 p.m. CST
I think this the first step that Schwarzenegger has to get his foot in the door and take over the production of T3. With all the money already invested and the producers don't want to hack off the golden cash cow that Schwarzenegger can be for their franchise picture. My opinion is that Schwarzenegger will push the producers to more of a formality role(kinda the way Tim Burton was a producer on Batman Forever). I wouldn't be suprised if we here Cameron is involved in someway or another. I have a feeling Cameron will be signed on and a deal is struck in the same way Micheal Bay has with Disney for Pearl Harbor(I make the movie my way and if I screw up I have to fit the bill). I definetly think Schwarzenegger and Cameron are up to something. If I remember correctly the producers of the film kinda screwed Cameron out of working in T3 with Fox. I think they are planing a big ole fat payback sandwich!! Then again I could be wrong and maybe Schwarzenegger may just wants to buy a small tropical island and he need just one more fat paycheck.
June 22, 2000, 4:59 p.m. CST
This would've been awesome about 5 years ago, but now...who gives a fuck? Arnold's a 100 fuckin' years old. If anything he should do Crusade, or another Conan movie, where he's an old barbarian king, and end his career. He's fuckin' over. Shit, he's already got those old man eyebrows and hair growing out of his fuckin' ears.
June 22, 2000, 5:26 p.m. CST
What I'm getting out of this debate is Star Power vs. Genius Direction. All of the people who are creaming their pants over T3 liked everything Arnold ever did (except for Jingle All The Way). The Cameron people hate that these vultures are raping his creation. I like them both AS A TEAM, and Arnold is right. If Cameron doesn't come on board this is going to suck big time. On a side note, I like that the Arnold people listed his movies and included the exact BO figures for only End of Days. It's like they are trying to tell us "Hey, he's still a box office draw." Maybe internationally...
June 22, 2000, 5:36 p.m. CST
200 Years in the future, O'Connor's distant relative is walking through the garbage dump, and spots a rusty old Terminator. He starts to rebuild the thing, who can only spout 90s pop culture references like "Do I make you horny baby" and "Whaazzuppp!". He brings it to class, where it pretends to be the janitor to protect John III from an assasination attempt on his life. Hilarity ensues.
June 22, 2000, 5:46 p.m. CST
The Terminator is PATTERNED after a real person. Years in the future, the old, aging war hero (Arnold) is dragged backwards in time while fighting the newest, slickest Terminator model. You see, the first Terminator was based on him as an employee of Cyberdyne. When he realized the military applications, he turned on his employers and joined the Rebellion. He gets back in the past and reunites with Sara and John to prevent the T2000 from setting off a chain of events that would rewrite the future. Romance with Sarah, distrust from John -- in the end, it turns out that the T2000 is the good guy, and that Arnie is really the bad one. I love it!
June 22, 2000, 5:57 p.m. CST
The alternate ending to T2 was the older granmother Sarah at the same playground as the nuke scene. James dropped that for the up in the air highway scene. "The future is not set" If he stuck with the other ending..."The future WAS set." the friggin movie ended. NO MORE TERMINATORS!!! They should make a T3 with completly new characters. It's Arnold and his age that sets this up as a potential loser. You are limited by Arnold. It was bad enough to see the difference in age between T1 and T2. A TERMINATOR CAN'T AGE!!!!
June 22, 2000, 6:41 p.m. CST
by Ned Collina
uh-oh. It's worrying to read that they are pressing ahead with T3. Without the 'King of the world' at the helm, I can only forsee an immense drop in production and story quality. Would I be alone in saying that T2 was enough. That it can't be topped? Look at the Alien, Superman, Star Wars and Godfather canon. After no2, it ws down hill. Fast. Why doesn't hollywood try something new and daring? Instead of recycling the same old rubbish?
June 22, 2000, 6:43 p.m. CST
...a prequel surely. There would just be too many loops in time not to mention holes in the plot if they tried to anything subsequent to T2. One thing I would like to see is the effects of the blast on the rest of the world. Is this ever explained in any later comic books or owt?
June 22, 2000, 6:44 p.m. CST
This movie should show everything that happend after the nuclear war all the way up to the 2nd terminator (T2) being sent back. This way Arnold could play the bad guy again (like in T1) hunting down the humans and Michael Bhien (Reese) could be back in it helping John Connor (the older one) take over Skynet. Now that would be a kick ass movie! No Sara, no young John, no punk friend on a yz125 motorcycle, no dumbass doctor, nothing. A TOTAL Sci-Fi movie!
June 22, 2000, 6:44 p.m. CST
Fanboys, fanboys, fanboys... Listen to this lonely Gigalo: all ya need for a good Terminator sequel is not JAmes Cameron- ya need a FREAKIN' GUNS 'N ROSES song on the soundtrack!!! C'mon!!! Does anyone honestly believe that T2 would have been half as successful as it was without the GUNS 'N FREAKIN' ROSES song in it? Who would have gone to see the movie if Huey Lewis and the News was blarin' in the freakin' background? All we need is a Guns 'N Roses reunion to make this movie work- and i'm not talkin' no Axl Rose solo project like on that end of days piece of shit soundtrack. i want slash playin' on it. i want fuckin' duff mckagen playin' on the song. you hear me? DUFF!!! DUUUUUUUFFFFF!!! And maybe i could work something out with the rest of Van Halen to do a song. if Eddie would only return my calls...i miss my friends... BIBBITY BOP! David Lee Roth signin' off!!!
June 22, 2000, 7:49 p.m. CST
Did you ever notice that "The Company" in the ALIEN franchise is PURINA. Look for the logo...
June 22, 2000, 10:39 p.m. CST
On various points since my last posting: if the creators of TANK GIRL were "deeply involved" in the film version and yet still disappointed disappointed in it then who do they have to realistically blame? personally I thought it was a hell of a lot of fun, looked great, had great music, style and attitude, and drive A LOT of people TO the comic. in fact it sold out in the Phoenix area immediately. Hamilton has said she would return for the right price--AND if Cameron comes back.....estranged husband or not. maybe they meant to say that arnold's films have grossed 5.2 billion? FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN CAMERON'S OWN TAKES ON TIME TRAVEL, CONTINUITY AND THE CAUSALTY LOOPS IN HIS TERMINATOR FILMS, please track down: Randall Frakes' novelisations of BOTH films as well as "the making of T2" book and the Applause annotated T2 screenplay. The former two were written by a close friend of Cameron's and informed and approved by him. Basically...the knife in the picnic table in T2 is the dividing point between two divergent timelines which even the older John Connor has a hard time remembering what exactly happened. In one the events of T2 carried to their cinematic conclusion. In the other the trio travelled southward indefinitely, evadign the T-1000, and survived through Judgment Day. All of these documents are also very cool for their intrinsic value, particularly for an extended future war sequence that included the infiltration and destruction of skynet and sending both KYLE REESE and the "good" terminator back through time. it shoudl address ALL of your issues regarding the time travel points of these stories. if cameron DOES get re-involved, no doubt frakes will novelise. they worked together as recently as the foreword for the annotated TITANIC script. Also note the T2 ULTIMATE EDITION DVD coming out on aug 29 (judgment day!)--being done with both Arnold's AND Cameron's full participation....my only issue is that yes, I think they shoudl wait for 2003 and avoid competing with SWEP2, MATRIX 2 AND LOTR I. ....that is all.....email@example.com
June 22, 2000, 11:02 p.m. CST
anybody remember that t-3 script by daniel perez (i think that's his name)? the supposed plot for this movie sounds alot like that script by perez. the script was pretty decent.
June 23, 2000, 1:35 a.m. CST
by Anonymous T Fan
The title Terminator 3: Armageddon came from a fan of the series that made a piece of crap he calls a script (trust me) and has tried to force it into Hollywood since 1995 or so. A total loser. THIS WILL NOT NOR WILL EVER BE THE T3 SCRIPT!!! Terminator 3: Apocalypse is just fan fic as well. Another title floating around is T3: Final Retribution. You can chock this up to being fan fic also. I stress: THESE ARE NOT IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE T3 MOVIE!!!! ITS JUST FAN FIC!!!! If anyone related to the real T3 movie can see this, if Linda Hamilton doesn't do it, please try to get her twin sister Leslie (im serious, if she can act of course) And how many terminator's that look like "Ahnuld" can you send back in time for Christ sake! Let another face shine. Arnold's part in these movies is in the future, for a prologue to the events in T1 and T2, nothing more in my opinion. Another thing: Sarah said at the beginning of T2 that Skynet sent 2 (two, II) terminators back through time. If they send another back in time, they better have a damn good reason for it. They also better explain why two "Ahnulds" were sent back through time in T1 and T2 when there were millions of other infiltrators to choose from. Possibly some paradox crap that would reek of crudd. Find another way to explain it. I KNOW YOU CAN if you just think. Maybe something in the cold storage facility perhaps might explain it. Arnold is aging pretty bad, but thats nothing that the make up crew can't fix if his only role is brief guest star appearances IN THE FUTURE, and ONLY in the future. My pics for new actors for a T-800 terminator is as follows: 1)Daniel Baldwin 2)Antonio Sabato Jr. 3)Dolph Lundgren 4)Evander Holyfield And a good subtitle to these movies should be something on the lines of "T3:Cybernetic Dawn" and (for T4) simply "The Future War" ( Don't dare call it T4!) Yet another thing: THE ARM IN THE STEEL MILL CANNOT POSSIBLY CREATE SKYNET. All the humans can do with that thing is look at it! CPU's are needed in order to create Skynet through a paradox. And the story was not over at the end of T2. Some theories state that it is impossible for matter to be destroyed. As a result, there would be no terminating of realities and instant changes. That is the theory we are suckered into believing at the end of T2. But if there cannot be any instant changes, then why did Skynet send the terminators back through time in the first place? Skynet could care less that the Dark Future is averted in another reality other than its own. By sending them back, Skynet wanted to accomplish instant changes in THEIR reality. Therefore, John Connor SHOULD have in fact dissapeared at the end of T2. This suggests a Terminator III. I look forward to seeing concepts that were first seen in T2: 3D, such as the T-MEG, Mini Hunter, and T-70's. Most likely T3 will deal with the T-70's because it takes place right before the postponed J-Day. Other concepts I would also like to see would be the silverfish and Centurion, which appear in comics. ( The centurion was supposed to be in T2, but did'nt make the cut due to financing I guess. The saga should not be made into a back to the future deal where people revisit their former selves and all of that junk. That would definitely 100% KILL the damn thing. The way to go is Prequel. Sources say that the third film will revolve around events leading up to J-Day, while T4 (better not be called T4 in my opinion.)revolves around the year 2029 in the ruins. T4 is the ONLY place for Arnold up to this point. We have seen enough of him traveling time I must say. So in conclusion, I believe that T3 and the film following it CAN be sucessful, they just gotta keep these pointers in mind. Stick with the overall mood of the story and try to decide what's feasible and what's not in that world. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DONT MESS IT UP!!! Cuz, if you do, (get this) true T fans wont even consider it as part of the saga! And just to state my suspicions about Arnie: Arnold has signed on wishing for JC, but will do the project anyway. I think Arnie is trying to persuade Cameron into doing this film as we speak. I have also heard that JC says he won't do it if the movie is not set up at Fox studios. Mario Kassar and Andy Vajna (Vagina, vanja or whatever!) probably had it all figured out. They call Arnie and tell him that if he signs on (even though Cameron doesn't seem to be involved) then that will increase the publicity of the project and encourage a big studio to come aboard. ( i.e. FOX cuz who the hell would turn down a Schwarzenegger film!?!?) This is where FOX chimes in and supplies the studio. If they get set up at Fox studios, Cameron is a shoe in and everybody is happy. My suspicions are yet to be proven right, but im pretty confident in it. I have also heard that Cameron has read the T3 script by Teddi Sarafian. It remains to be seen if he liked it, even though he has said that he has his own visualization for T3, which well never be able to see most likely. PS: To everyone that has posted a message here prejudging this film, I speak for all fans who want to see a conclusion to the Terminator saga when I say wait and see if these films are any good before you say it will suk the big one. All I ask is please, WAIT AND SEE.
June 23, 2000, 1:57 a.m. CST
by Blok Narpin
I said it before and Ill say it again. Terminator 3 MUST be made to clear up the time travel inconsistancies in T2. T2 is a good movie *IF* they make a third one that clears up the plot holes. WITHOUT a third film to fill those plot holes in Terminator 2 SUCKS. I have hated that film for years because of that stupid ending that indicates that they won and Skynet wont come into creation. Terminator 3 will fix that. Despite the fact that they ACT like they have prevented Skynet's creation at the end of 2 you KNOW that they havent because if they HAD then John would cease to exist. Now I hear 3 is supposed to be about an adult John fighting the war against the machines in the distant future. That is a good premise for a movie and it would fix 2's inconsistancies. As for who stars in it, I could really care less. It seems SILLY to bring Arnold back. I mean shouldnt his model Terminator be REALLY outdated by now? I think The ROck would be a good choice. He's popular and would draw a crowd. Besides, it doesnt exactly take much ACTING TALENT to play a Terminator, does it??
June 23, 2000, 3:16 a.m. CST
Now, listen to me, guys. T3 can't be anywhere else than in the future . We'll probably meet John Connor as a grownup man, and his father, about the same age, Kyle . (Sarah's not there, too old or dead. ) Terminators ? 2 or 3 of them : -Arnie as good guy -T-1000, same actor, brilliant. -Arnie as bad guy What do you guys think ? OK, OK, I know, we don't have 2 Schwarzennegers, but they did it for that film with him, and for Van Damme as well... You think that plot is shit ? Well, find one, give it to me, show me the ideas, at least I have the balls to think and to imagine T3 and eventually T4...
June 23, 2000, 3:28 a.m. CST
Now, listen to me , guys. T3 can only be in the future . We'll meet John Connor as a man, His father, Kyle, but not Sarah (too old or dead ). Terminators ? well there's 3 : -Arnie nice cyborg -T-1000, same actor, nasty cyborg -Arnie nasty cyborg What do you think ? Expose your ideas . I'll be there all day .
June 23, 2000, 3:38 a.m. CST
by Anonymous T Fan
Hey Tyler Durdan, did you read my last post up there????
June 23, 2000, 3:54 a.m. CST
I know this is a long post but I had to get this off of my chest....I apologize now! But..............FFS will you all lay off of Arnold and get over the Matrix already! And stop slagging off SW2 before you have seen it aswell! Jesus..I don't know..how long have film fans been so judgemental? Can you really say that all those films you love are any better or worse than the films we have now? No they aren't they all suffer from the same kind of things. Name a film and I am fairly certain that someone somewhere will be able to slag it off so leave it already! You are film fans so act like it instead of acting like children who can only bitch about how stars and directors and films that you all used to love! It's pathetic. Now to the point.....T3 has some very obvious points that if you actually thought about, or had read the official comics, you would realise! 1: when SkyNet sent back Arnie it also sent back the T-1000. So do you reckon that it didn't send back some more after that aswell? Also do you really think that there waasn't earlier attempts that went wrong? No? Duh! There were...there is a government room with a load of parts or Terminators in it just waiting for research (try reading the comics and you would know about this). 2:who knows the true affect of time travel? Should Reese of vanished after the defeat of the origional terminator? Surely that solved the war? Well, no...they had something for research...Arnies arm, just like at the end of the 2nd film. 3:the terminators who were sent back after the events of T2 had two missions. One - if possible kill John Conner and his mother & 2 - garentee the completion of the SkyNet project...which is why SkyNet sent back three terminators in the comics..2 t-1000 & 1 t-800. Now, I can't remember who made the point about the terminator factory and the racks of terminators all the same but they were right (and had a modicum of intelligence so well done, you have my respect). There is racks of terminators this is why SkyNet sent back an Arnie T-800 and so did John...because Johns forces overran the time complex just after all the terminators had been sent back. And why did he pick an Arnie? Because there was a freakin' rack of them just waiting next to the time machine! There is an awful lot more points that can be used in the next Terminator movie...the only one I have heard in this talk back that makes sense though is having an old warrior type (Arnie) who SkyNet based the T-800 Arnie model on! Qudos to the person who first suggested it! Everyone else...if all you can do is knock one of the greatest action heros of all time (among other things..do we really need to see 10 posts all knocking a film that hasn't even been made yet? Who says that SW2 is going to *suck* or that Matrix 2 is going to *rock* for definate..as far as I know I aint seen anything that proves either point so give them all a chance.....and please if you don't have something interesting to say then just shut up. I for one could do with out having to trawl through loads of single line posts saying "oh yeah this is going to suck bigtime" or "F**k off Hollywood you pr*cks"...theres no need for it. So do what all us film fans used to do....sit back, listen to all the hype then go and judge the film yourselves....don't base your opinions on hearsay and rumor or you will probably miss some great movies.) Sorry about the length of this post but I needed to say all of that....
June 23, 2000, 4:54 a.m. CST
It seems that you haven't seen Fight Club . Well I suggest you buy it fast on DvD . I'm talking to you, "Anonymous T-fan" Spell "Durden" right next time, buddy . For the plot and the message you wrote earlier , I finally read it and I thought some of it was good, rather interesting, but not consequent . Find something else, Cameron, Fox, and Arnie won"t buy that .
June 23, 2000, 11:52 a.m. CST
Terminator III will suck just like terminator II did. James cameron should call Harlan Ellison to write the third installment. In that case I'll have to say "their chances of survival may have just doubled". It's time for proponents of imaginative writing to get off their encounter-suited butts and do something!!!
June 24, 2000, 8:34 a.m. CST
I can't really read this fax of a seventh-hand photocopy too well ... author looks like "Hmor Spimson" ... it's an erotic thriller about a man who travels back in time for some reason. Script's not that long, most of it seems to be just drawings of the time machine, but it does have a talking pie. And that's the film's heart right there. Guaranteed $80 mil open, $450 mil domestic take, $3 bil worldwide and the California state house for Ah-nuld. Ron Howard attached to direct. These Happy Days are yours and mine ... Happy Days!
June 24, 2000, 2:39 p.m. CST
by Anonymous T Fan
Every friggen time some genious decides he wants to fake like he has the REAL scoop and it turns out to be a joke! Some of 'em were very funny, but frankly, now its just pissin me off. It's not like your the first person to do it so stop it!
June 25, 2000, 4:32 p.m. CST
First off, a clarification. . . the end of ABKing's article went like this: // Rights to the Terminator series were acquired by C-2 from Gale Ann Hurd's Lightstorm Entertainment as well as well as [sic] from the sale of Carolco Pictures assets. C-2 now owns all rights to the Terminator franchise. // Gale's production company is PACIFIC WESTERN PRODUCTIONS. Lightstorm is CAMERON'S house. C-2 --Vanja and Kassar-- purchased Gale's share of the rights (that is, the 50% of the ownership that they didn't already own,) a few years ago, and, as is stated, Kassar and Vanja now own the property 100%. OK... now, onto something else: I notice a lot of people on these talkbacks who seem to think things in the industry are are as simple as this: "Cameron should at least write or produce it. It's his story." People, please. This is a multi-billion-dollar industry. We're not picking teams for dodge-ball. In other words: IT AIN'T THAT SIMPLE. You don't just pick up and jump on board just because you think you should, or even simply because you created the original project. You wanna know the funny part? Cameron ultimately has no say on what happens with the project. He sold the rights to "Terminator" to Gale Anne Hurd back in 1983 in their entirety under the provision that she would produce it and only he could direct it. In 1991, when they made T2, she still had co-ownership, shared with Vanja and Kassar, back when they were "Carolco." Those were the days when everyone got along. Then Carolco went bankrupt in the mid-nineties, Vanja and Kassar bought the rights to the project for themselves (at their own company's liquidation auction, nonetheless,) and then bought the rest of the rights from Hurd a little while later. Cameron got P-I-S-T at Vanja because he never told Jim he had any intention of snagging the project; Meanwhile, Jim intended to buy it up and make T3 at Fox, with Bill Mechanic at his side for the whole trip. SO. . . Fox and Cameron are (or were?) ticked at C-2, but there legally isn't fuck-all they can do about it. Jim's only cards to play with are his good name (ok, well... how about "public recognition?) and the loyalty of Arnie and Linda Hamilton, neither of whom have given any previous indication they'd be willing to do T3 without Jim. Nuff said? All told, there are a LOT of politics involved in Jim Cameron returning to the Terminator franchise. It's not as easy as, "OK, I'll do it. When do I start?" Plus that, Jim's got a shitload of projects in front of him. Who knows when he'll be available. Regardless, my personal take is: THIS MOVIE WILL SUCK WITHOUT JIM CAMERON! I hope anyone who is involved with this project reads that sentence and is unable to get it out of their head when they lay down to sleep. Sure, Arnold's the iconic image of a Terminator, and it would be foolish to have the movie without him, but I'd have to imagine that ANY other writer and ANY other director would consequentially ruin the damn film. It would be the right actor for the job in a shitty movie. Message to C-2: DO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO GET JAMES CAMERON ON THIS! WORK OUT YOUR DIFFERENCES, APOLOGIZE FOR PAST TRANSGRESSIONS, HAND IT TO HIM, LET HIM RUN WITH IT AT FOX, AND WATCH THE CASH FLOW IN. All that having been said, I think it'll be an interesting catfight if this actually came out Summer 2002. It'd be ugly. As everyone else has mentioned, SW2, Matrix2 (NOT 3 also, whoever said that... dumbass,) LOTR, etc. However, the one guarantee is this: Without it being a GOOD movie (ie, a JIM CAMERON movie,) T3 would not even stand a fucking chance. It would get steamrolled like a Van-Damme sequel against the Spider-Man movie. --Lightstormer
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