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HERC and MORIARTY Comment On This Season's FINAL BUFFY!!!

Hey, all. "Moriarty" here. As much as I love all things BUFFY, I have to disagree with HERCULES THE STRONG regarding tonight's season finale. First of all, spoilers abound here, so run if you don't want to know everything. I thought that the dream structure of the show made sense in a theoretical way, and I'm all for learning about the origins of the First Slayer. However, I thought that the execution of the episode was almost entirely a botch. There's one moment (Giles singing again) that made me honk with laughter, and I thought there was about three minutes of good scare scattered throughout the piece, but beyond that, it felt flat to me. I adore the final two-part episode of THE PRISONER, and that's what "Restless" felt like it was trying to be. It just never quite connected. Of course, that's just my opinion, and one misfire doesn't change my rabid love for this, the best show on TV. Now here's HERC to argue the episode's case.





“Buffy” creator and guiding mastermind Joss Whedon, who also directed.


True. The teaser comes AFTER the title sequence, rather than the usual reverse.


Doesn’t look like it. As the episode begins, he and Buffy are exploring each other’s lips fairly determinedly. Riley will, however, be quitting his night job; he hints that he’ll be getting an honorable discharge in return for his silence. As the episode begins, he is taking temporary leave of the Scoobs to participate in a Pentagon debriefing.


The funniest. There’s a sight gag in the first 120 seconds that actually made me yelp. I also thoroughly enjoyed, among many many other things, Anya’s truck-driving technique.


I’m pleased to report that “Restless” is one of the finest “Buffys” in the history of Things Buffy. It will, one suspects, prove monstrously important to the series’ mythos. Like certain episodes of “The Prisoner” and “Twin Peaks” and “Mannix” before it, this installment will serve for decades as fodder for scholarly debate. (Speaking of “Peaks”, the episode seems at times to be a deliberate homage to the David Lynch/Mark Frost TV drama, complete with cryptic Little Nemo dialogue and White-Lodgey scarlet drapes – not to mention a bald, bespectacled man who keeps popping up in the company of cheese slices.) As a bonus, a lot of familiar elements pop up in the Dreaming, including Principal Snyder, Spike squeeze Harmony Kendall, Joyce Summers, big chunks of Adam, and Daniel “Oz” Osborne (but, sadly, NOT Cordy Chase).


I would strongly recommend taping “Restless” for repeated viewings. There’s an enormous amount of material to assimilate. Some of it doubtlessly provides vital foreshadowing. A lot of it is just probably really amusing.


False. No major characters meet their demise in any way.


False. As the episode ends, there are no pressing conflicts to resolve. Just a great deal to think about.


I’m reasonably certain Faith was referring to herself. In Tuesday’s episode, we do meet the cavegirl-like “first slayer” - but SHE would be “big sister,” wouldn’t she?


Exhausted from their victorious battle against Adam and Co., the four core Scoobies gather at Buffy’s house to watch home videos, but end up nodding off on the couch. Each of the episode’s four acts is devoted to a different character’s anxiety dream -- first Willow’s, then Xander’s, Giles’, and finally Buffy’s. As each becomes vaguely aware of something scary stalking them in their sleep, we learn all sorts of secrets about our heroes.


A few nocturnal highlights:

* During an intimate moment of body calligraphy, Tara confides to Willow: “You don’t know everything about me.”

* Harmony, on stage between a cowboy-suited Riley and a Louise-Brooks-looking Buffy, asks Riley, “Why have you come to our lonely small town, which has no post office, and very few exports?”

* We learn Xander seems to have the hots for Buffy’s mom, and is in no way disapproving of Willow and Tara’s relationship.

* Spike, dressed identically to Giles and sitting in broad daylight, tells Xander, “Giles here is going to teach me to be a watcher. Says I got the stuff.” Adds a smiling Giles: “Spike is like a son to me.” Replies Xander: “That’s good. I was into that for a while, but I got other stuff goin’ on.”

* Xander tells Buffy: “You can’t protect yourself from - some stuff.” Replies Buffy: “I’m way ahead of you, big brother.” Xander: “Brother?”

* But the most intriguing stuff comes with Buffy’s dream:

(Buffy is back home, standing over her old, unmade bed.)

BUFFY: Faith and I just made that bed.


BUFFY: I thought you were here to tell me.

(Buffy looks over, and we see she’s talking to Tara.)

BUFFY: The guys aren’t here are they? We were going to hang out and watch movies.

TARA: You lost them.

BUFFY: No, no, I think they need me to find them.

(Buffy looks at her alarm clock: 7:30 a.m.)

BUFFY: It’s so late!

TARA: Oh! That clock’s completely wrong! Here.

(Tara hands Buffy a tarot card: “Manos” – the hands)

BUFFY: I’m never going to use those.

TARA: You think you know. What’s to come. What you are. You haven’t even begun.

(Buffy glances at her bed. It’s been made again.)

BUFFY: I think I need to go find the others.

TARA: Be back before dawn.

(Buffy is then in a UCSunnydale corridor, when she spots her mom through a crude hole in the wall.)


JOYCE: Oh, hi honey!

BUFFY: Why are you living in the walls?

JOYCE: Oh, sweetie, no, I’m fine here! Don’t worry about me.

BUFFY (surveying the hole distastefully): It looks dirty.

JOYCE: Well, it seems that way to you. I made some lemonade and I’m learning how to play mah-jong. You go – find your friends.

BUFFY: I think they may be in danger.

(Joyce suddenly can’t stop giggling.)

JOYCE: I’m sorry dear. A mouse is playing with my knees.

BUFFY: I really don’t think you should live in there.

JOYCE: Well. You could probably break through the wall…

(But Buffy is distracted by something else. She enters a windowless room with leather chairs, a glass table and a map. Riley is sitting across from the man who became the human part of Adam. They are both wearing ties. There’s a gun on the table.)

RILEY: Hey there, killer.

BUFFY: Riley? You’re back?

RILEY: I never left.

BUFFY: How did your debriefing go?

RILEY: It went great. They made me surgeon general.

BUFFY: Why didn’t you come and tell me? We could have celebrated.

RILEY: Oh. We’re drawing up a plan for world domination. Key element? Coffee makers that think!

BUFFY: World domination? Is that a good?

RILEY: Baby, we’re the government. It’s what we do.

THE MAN WHO WOULD BE ADAM: She’s uncomfortable with certain concepts. It’s understandable. Aggression is a natural human tendency. Though you and I come by it another way.

BUFFY: We’re not demons.

THE MAN WHO WOULD BE ADAM: Is that a fact?

RILEY: Buffy, we’ve got important work here. A lot of filing. Giving things names.

BUFFY (to T.M.W.W.B.A.): What was yours?

THE MAN WHO WOULD BE ADAM: Before Adam? Not a man among us can remember.

(Warning lights bathe the room.)

PRE-RECORDED VOICE: The demons have escaped. Please run for your lives.

(Riley and T.M.W.W.B.A. stand urgently)

THE MAN WHO WOULD BE ADAM: This could be trouble.

RILEY: We better make a fort.

THE MAN WHO WOULD BE ADAM: I’ll get some pillows.


Buffy learns the stalker is the spirit of the primitive “first slayer” - who doesn’t like the fact that Buffy’s begun sharing her powers with her friends. We learn Tara has been speaking for the first slayer (who isn’t good with words). Buffy defeats the stalker by essentially dismissing her as the dream she is. Everyone wakes up, Joyce makes hot cocoa, and Buffy remembers Tara’s words as she passes her old bedroom: “You think you know. What’s to come. What you are. You haven’t even begun.”


It sure was. It’s been a great year.



Quiet! You’ll miss the humorous conclusion!

I am - Hercules! Comfortador!

Readers Talkback
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  • May 23, 2000, 1:58 a.m. CST

    Can't wait

    by Carly

    It sounds so trippy.

  • Well, at least a spoiler for Herc. Just today (Monday 5/23), Dark Horizons had an item about a new character next season named "Dawn," who will be a young slayer and something of a kid sister for Buffy. I'm fairly certain that *this* is who Faith was talking about in the dream.

  • May 23, 2000, 4:53 a.m. CST

    Some other hints?

    by jeffv

    SPOILERS FOR EPISODE. So what's Willow's big secret? The "costume" she's wearing? Early in the sequence Willow says something about not being ready and that she "felt safe here". Is Willow something larger? Is she unknowingly incubating some power or being that needs to mature? Maybe Tara knows what it is, and that's why she latched on to Willow. (I know... the boring interpretation of "the costume" is Willow trying to cover up her geekiness as revealed in the book report scene, but there seemed to be more going on than that.) Also, did anyone notice Giles's girlfriend (don't remember her name, sorry) is pushing a baby carriage as they escort Buffy through the fair, and then in the next scene (in the background) the carriage is on its side and she's crying? A reference to this "little sister", maybe? Also, I'm intrigued by the implication that there's more to the slayer that Buffy doesn't know yet, and perhaps even implication that there's a demon connection. (Is the slayer a form of demon?) Actually, that makes me wonder if the reason Tara broke the demon-finding spell some episodes back was that it might've revealed Willow and/or Buffy (rather than the speculation I saw elsewhere that it would've revealed Tara to be a demon). Anyway, some interesting bits, but at times I thought it was trying to hard to be Twin Peaks.

  • May 23, 2000, 5:05 a.m. CST

    One more thing...

    by jeffv

    SPOILERS FOR EPISODE AGAIN. Another thought on Willow's bit. Anya says, "it's a Greek tragedy." Greek tragedy tends to have people done in by their own ambitions and belief that they can fight fate. IF there were more to Willow than she knows, perhaps it's a Total Recall-type thing. That there may be plans that she would become the incarnation of some new powerful enemy. Probably people are wondering where the Hell I came up with this idea, but, hey, they've got to try something different next year and there's obviously more to the Wicca plot still to come. (BTW, that should've been "too hard" not "to hard" in my last post. Oops.)

  • May 23, 2000, 6:32 a.m. CST

    i aint been keeping track of buffy for a while, who is adam?

    by enigma

    who and what is adam? is he like, the first human incarnate or something? cos the demons were born from adam and his first wife lillith.

  • May 23, 2000, 8:12 a.m. CST


    by Oliver Platt

    I hope to God they slap these episodes on DVD ala X-files very soon. It is the best show on TV hands down.

  • Just kidding. I'm sure it was a good show.

  • May 23, 2000, 3:19 p.m. CST

    have to agree

    by CrowManiac

    cant wait for this episode

  • May 23, 2000, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Just my thoughts ...

    by TrollPrincess

    ... on the episode. It's just me rambling on about what struck me, so a few things. --- Willow's sequence ... 1.) Couldn't help but chuckle inwardly at the kitten. How incredibly subtle, don't you think? 2.) With that whole you're-hiding-a-secret thing, I think it could go two ways. The lesbian thing, of course, but I think what someone else in Talkback said has merit, something about Willow having more power or something like that. I mean, when the Scooby gang all "came together" last week, the magic part that came from Willow seemed stronger than it usually did to me. I dunno, maybe I'm just being silly, but perhaps Willow has more power than she's willing to accept, hence all the hinting back to her repressed first-season self. 3.) I kept wondering what spell Willow was painting on Tara's back. Any ideas? --- Xander's sequence ... 1.) I think that a lot, and I mean a LOT of what I saw in that sequence was a hint to what Xander might be doing next season ... well, to better phrase it, his coming into his own and finding his place in the world. Something that makes him feel important next to his college buddies. 2.) While it wasn't a shock that Xander loves the idea of Willow and Tara together, it sure was hysterical. 3.) Okay, maybe I'm nuts, but all that "Big Brother" talk right alongside all that talk about Spike becoming a Watcher ... I had this weird feeling that someone's going to become a Watcher next year. Xander? Ehhh ... Like I said, maybe I'm nuts. --- Giles' sequence ... All I've gotta say is, man, did I laugh! Him singing while Xander and Willow research while holding up lighters was a riot! --- Buffy's sequence ... Okay, someone is hiding something. That was the main thing I got of this part. Either Tara's hiding something, or Riley, or there is something about Buffy that even Buffy doesn't know. Okay, enough of me babbling ... I just think it's one big foreshadowing for NEXT season, and if we end up taking this thing out of the mothballs next season and look at it over, it'll look like, "Well, duh, you should have figured this out before ..."

  • May 23, 2000, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Maybe, just maybe.....

    by lil' bastard

    Ever thought of this possibility. JW is just messing with our minds. Maybe some of this episode clears up loose ends from the season, and maybe some of it portents for the next season, but after the death of Adam and the end of The Intitiative, there's very little else to do. Also, it is not a cliffhanger. With all this in mind, maybe JW has decided to throw in all sorts of pop-culture references, mystical musings, and just plain odd scenes and then sit back and watch the mayhem unfold as fanboys and fangirls spend six months online debating the meaning of every single line from the show, and what it means for each Scooby and what it holds for the future overall. Just a thought, but he could be that cruel, couldn't he. I know I would. BTW, is Oz, we are about four-five episodes behind. Oh, and what is a monkeygrinder?

  • May 23, 2000, 10:18 p.m. CST

    lil' bastard ...

    by TrollPrincess

    ... you are soooo RIGHT. That would be just like Joss, too ... leave us going nuts like this for months and it turns out to mean nothing. Well, it's either it means nothing or everything, the way Joss works, and I think I'll just stick with it meaning a lot, but with full knowledge of my gullibility. ;)

  • May 23, 2000, 10:41 p.m. CST


    by c_cubed

    This finale was like some high school kid's vision of a cool, trippy, artistic episode. So ham-handed, so pretensious, so dull. Giles' song was kind of funny, and Willow and Tara looked damn good in Xander's dream, but come on. This was almost as painful to watch as the recent Gillian Anderson episode of the X-Files. To quote the comic book guy from The Simpsons, "Worst episode, EVER!"

  • May 23, 2000, 10:53 p.m. CST

    Lover of all things buffy?

    by CaptBlack

    Frankly, I've been getting pretty sick of buffy this season. The characters I'd been attached to seemed real alien, even annoying. For a while, I was hoping some bad-ass vampire would come in and kill everyone except Giles and Spike so the show could start fresh. Maybe it's because I'm tired of thirty year-olds trying to write college students and military conspiracies. I know conspiracies have been popular since the X-files, but please, anyone who's studied government or criminal law knows that the Initiative was interacting with the public--and doing it totally illegally. God, look up "Posse Comitatus" Whedon! On a side note, I have been consistently impressed by Angel. Maybe because he finally told Buffy to fuck off.

  • May 23, 2000, 10:57 p.m. CST

    One other thing...

    by CaptBlack

    Don't you dare try and compare Buffy to the Prisoner. A true Six of One fan would be insulted by that remark.

  • May 23, 2000, 11:06 p.m. CST

    Not so suttle wizard of Oz references.

    by BP_Jedi

    Willow = cowardice lion, because of stagefright and other fears. Zander is the TinMan, because of the whole not having a heart. Giles is the Scarecrow, because they take his intellect, i.e. brain. Buffy is the leader and she is waring red slippers in the school hallway( they later turn yellow!) The first slayer is the wicked witch possibly , but's that a stretch.

  • May 23, 2000, 11:49 p.m. CST

    Re: Wizard of Oz references

    by jeffv

    Well, BP_Jedi, it's also interesting that each of these Wizard of Oz characters are the antithesis of the cards that the Scooby Gang drew during the enjoinment spell. Willow was the Spirit (courage), Xander was the Heart, and Giles was the Mind. So, each was being robbed of what they brought. Though again, the Buffy comparison is a bit murky with her being the Hand.

  • May 24, 2000, 12:06 a.m. CST

    weird one

    by rjtapper

    Kubrick lives! He must, cuz this episode felt like he'd risen from the dead and directed it. Talk about an anti-climax. Like the season as a whole for Buffy, this capper had flashes of greatness, but left me underwelmed. Yes, I'm sure this episode will make more sense once next season unfolds, but tonight it made little sense. Hopefully next season will be more consistent.

  • May 24, 2000, 12:16 a.m. CST

    Buffy finale

    by Dustin

    Aw, man. The Wiz of Oz thing's a pretty good catch. I'm ashamed that I didn't see that immediately; I'm sure the analogies run all through the dreams. Glad I taped it. Though.. I didn't really notice Oz play Oz, which would've been spiffy. ;) I noticed plenty of in-jokes here and there. Willow's book report was on The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe (C.S. Lewis, I believe). On more than one fan site (I think I first read it at, during episode recaps, the nickname they regularly use for Willow and Buff's dorm room is, "The Slayer, the Witch, and Their Wardrobe." Nice. Not a thrilling ep, to be sure, but enjoyable for the puzzle factor.

  • May 24, 2000, 12:56 a.m. CST

    quite good!

    by Lizzybeth

    I really, really liked it. I'm obsessed with dream interpretations and such, so I enjoyed the hell out of it. I'll definately have to re-watch, a lot. Worried about Xander, though. Also: GILES MUST SING IN EVERY EPISODE!!!!

  • May 24, 2000, 2:38 a.m. CST

    Some things obvious, some subtle (spoilers)

    by Redbeard_NV

    O.K. It was obvious to me from before I read some of the spoilers that theS coobies unleashed ancient powers. When I saw the spell being cast, I knew that they weren't just combining the talents of Giles, Willow and Xander. Giles gave it up when he said he didn't blame the spirit, for she never had a Watcher. BTW, the lighters were hysterical. Secondly, Willow's dream of trying to escape from a little girl's body, very indicitave of some serious trauma, possibly sexual assault (had a friend who did a paper on this for her dissertation, only to discover through her research that she was suffering from multiple personalities herself triggered by a family molestation!). Xander's dream, too wild (BTW, anybody notice Anya's scaley back towards the camera at Gile's apartment? Perhaps a fear of his girlfriend going demon again? Hope not, she's more fun trying to be human!), especially the vampy (not vampirish!) makeup job on Allison and Amber when they were back in the ice cream truck. It was nice to see Kristine Sutherland and Adam (damn, I forget his name)without his makeup. Joyce Summers in both a sexual role as well as her being walled off from her daughter's life was a major twist. Good to see Armin Shimmerman again in anything other than his butthead makeup from DS9 (the butthead line came from Max Godenchik himself, so don't flame me on that one.) I think the episode would have been perfect had it ended with the cheese guy tag line and the looks of the Scoobies.

  • Oh my god, the funniest line in AGES! Well, this season has certainly had its weak points (Riley, Adam, and much of the Initiative stuff), but I was really happy with the way things wrapped up. First of all, the Initiative is gone, gone, gone, and that's gotta be good. The line from the government bigwig at the end of that episode about burying the Initiative in concrete and sowing the ground with salt almost seemed to me to be an acknowledgment that the Initiative storyline had become a major burden on the show. Glad it's gone the way of the dodo. ******* On to the finale. First off, it was spooky, and that's something I'd like to see more often on the show. Vampires and demons have become too tangibly defeatible, easily dispatched with a bit of kick-boxing. The intangible dangers (as seen in the recent episode with the haunted frat house) are far more interesting for a change. The fact that so much humor was interwoven with the genuinely eerie stuff in "Restless" makes it all the more impressive. I'll save the analysis of specific dream imagery for another post, but in brief, I thought it worked very well. Normally I hate when writers use blatantly symbolic (and unrealistic) dreams to move a story forward, but these were "magic induced" dreams, so I give a little leeway. Plus, while the basic symbolism was obvious (Xander can't "escape" his dreary home life, etc.), there was such a bombardment of smaller, more open-to-interpretation images, that I never felt Joss was just doing a lazy man's character study. I'll definitely be re-watching this one once or twice, if only to see vixin-ish Willow and Tara (And no, I don't think Joss was just throwing out odd imagery to stir fan debate - much of it was fairly clear). The revelation of the source of the dreams, the first Slayer, happened a little too fast and she was dispatched maybe a little too quickly, but I thought it was a great idea in general. I also get the feeling the next season will expand on the first Slayer along with the importance of Buffy's heritage and her untapped potential. Plus, I gather we'll learn what was up with the mysterious "cheese guy", the one totally incongruous element to all the dreams. Whatever he symbolized or foreshadowed, my impression was it had nothing to do with the episode. Something for the next season, rather, and I don't think we were given the clues to figure out what. We'll have to wait. Anyway, overall I thought "Restless" was a really innovative way to end the season. The show doesn't need another big monster showdown right now, so my hat's off to Joss Whedon for throwing such sly curveball our way.

  • May 24, 2000, 3:24 a.m. CST

    Topic: Spike and Giles and the swing set...

    by Dave_F

    This one didn't seem too complicated to me. Since it was part of Xander's dream, I just viewed it as an extension of his inferiority complex. Giles is a father-figure for everyone in the Scooby gang, and subconsciously Xander is fearful that even a sleazeball like Spike might be more accepted than he is. That Giles mentions training Spike as a Watcher seem a little specific, I must admit. Could foreshadow some weirdness next season. Still, I stand by the scene as basically nothing more then an extension of Xander's self-doubt.

  • May 24, 2000, 3:50 a.m. CST

    Cheese man

    by LenS

    Joss posted on the official site tonight and specifically said that the cheese stuff definitely had no meaning. He wanted something meaningless (which dreams are often filled with) and he found the cheese man hilarious.

  • May 24, 2000, 4:06 a.m. CST

    Topic: Willow's dream

    by Dave_F

    Constantine, you really think Whedon's setting up a sexual abuse storyline for Willow? I need to watch the Willow scenes again (and I didn't tape the episode, damn me), but all I picked up were fears about revealing her sexual identity set against a backdrop of her general fears of geekiness and introversion. I'll have to borrow a tape from a friend and watch it again for specifics. Still, why do you seem so sure Whedon would take the cynical route in suggesting Willow's foray into lesbianism is the result of sexual abuse? Whedon's writing has never struck me as close-minded, so I don't really see him pulling that bit.

  • May 24, 2000, 4:14 a.m. CST

    "Cheese guy" was just a gag, eh?

    by Dave_F

    Okay, so Whedon *did* throw out at least one full-blown red herring of imagery. Good to know, 'cause I was about to start looking for anagrams in the word "cheese" and all kinds of crazy stuff. Now I can sleep peacefully...and hopefully dream of Willow and Tara together in an ice cream truck...

  • May 24, 2000, 8:40 a.m. CST

    by VAcavalier

    Ok, couple of things. I think this has only been mentioned once, but what about during Xander's sequence when Buffy called him brother? That was something I couldn't figure out, what was the deal with that? It just didn't fit with the whole Xander trying to find his way in the world. As for Willow, her biggest fear has always been related to academics and the way people view her. I question the whole sexual assault idea simply becuase she's always had feelings for Xander, and she had a relatively normal relationship with Oz before hanging out with Tara. I still think there's more to Tara than meets the eye. One thing I want to point out, although it may mean nothing. I was reading a past script recently, the one where Evil Willow crosses over to this reality. Normal Willow says something like "She's skanky and I think she's kinda gay..." and Buffy says something to the effect of "Vampires don't really portray the real us" and Angel starts to say (before Buffy shuts him up with a look) "Actually that's not entirely true..." Just a thought.

  • May 24, 2000, 8:45 a.m. CST

    "Be back before dawn" meaning THE Dawn?

    by Drath

    Not a great season, but the ending gives me hope they'll do better in year 5. The main problem was the combination of a lesser villain(and not villainS), the cliched military-conspiracy Initiative, and the Scooby Gang fracturing apart. The main characters are too distant now, and inconsistant with their past selves. Also, all the mystery that wasn't resolved this season really made for a loose ship. Is Riley not human? Why else should he be so important to the Government(I KNOW it wasn't that tiny chip in his chest, that would be just TOO lame)? Is Tara a demon? Is Willow a super powerful sorceress? What was Adam's real purprose? Why the HELL didn't Willow and Tara make Amy back into a girl again if they're so powerful together? None of these things were answered, and that seems like a waste of a season. I expect better next season. Speaking of which, if this new character that Dark Horizons calls Dawn is real, I wonder if that line of Dream-Tara's, "be back before dawn," was a subtle hint of her coming. I don't think the Faith line counts as foreshadowing because that was too long ago, it's doubtful Dawn was in any of their plans then. Also, Faith said "well look at you, all dressed up in Big Sister's clothes," to Buffy, which suggests she saw herself as Buffy's little sister anyway. And I don't see Faith having such keen insight to the future. But, the way this dream recalls the earlier one is probably important, new readings might be coming. And there's a good chance that a LOT of this episode was just there to confuse the hell out of us. I've been a little unhappy with the way the season worked, all things Initiative were too predictable, but at least there's a chance the writers might do better stuff next year. I hope that if they do use this "little sister" character Dawn, she's done well and not too derivative of Faith or [gasp] that little girl from Sailor Moon. I also hope they return to intelligent vampire villains. Why is Buffy the VAMPIRE slayer if vampires are the dumbest and least dangerous demons stalking the hellmouth? Get back to basics, get back to the older Vampires! I hope the appearance of the First Slayer means they'll do just that. (say wouldn't it be great if the used Lillith, the mother of all demons[and vampires] as a villain next year, or would that be too much like CriMson? Ah, steal from the best, I always say.)

  • May 24, 2000, 9:21 a.m. CST

    RE: Drath

    by stuntmunky

    "Crimson"? What are you referring to? I'm curious, now.....damn your eyes.

  • May 24, 2000, 9:51 a.m. CST

    The basics

    by Hudson Hawk

    It's really not that thoughts on the past season and dream finale. 1) Willow - will come into her own as she gains confidence in herself and her powers fully mature. 2)Tara - more powerful than the others realize (but SHE knows)and probably a link to the PTB, but destined for evil. 3)Giles - his girlfriend is pregnant with Dawn, the next slayer. Since Giles is the father figure that would make the Scooby Bunch "Big brother and sisters". 4)Zander - trained as a Watcher, eventually for Dawn, we also see him break away from home and Anya. 5)The Buffster - has any Slayer lived this long? Unlikely, and the twist will be revealed that she is at least part Demon (remember, to Riley, not all demons are bad). She'll embrace powers that really take it to the next level (super hero - not just supernatural)and will have to use them to rescue a kidnapped Dawn.

  • May 24, 2000, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Thoughts on our little Buffy...

    by lycanthrope

    I read an interview with Whedon recently, and he said this whole past season was about the freedom of college and how it often leads to estrangement between old friends... Next season will find a return to the classic structure of the Scooby gang - a more unified group, which I have been hoping for... I agree that Whedon probably has big things in mind for Willow, but I doubt he's going for the "trauma = lesbian" formula that is so tired and small-minded... Much as I love Oz's character, I think Willow and Tara are soulmates - Tara's gender makes no difference... It was also nice to see a brief shot of the first season Willow - sometimes I miss her first faltering steps at being courageous, and her unrequieted love for Xander... I wonder if anyone out there at AICN (including Herc and Moriarity) knows if they will ever bring Drusilla back - things are so ripe for a big reunion/clash with that delectable creepy vamp and Spike - especially now that Spike is helping the Scoobies, and there is no one to remove his chip - BTW (SPOILER HERE) - they brought back Darla, the vamp who made Angelus/Angel a vampire way back when - who better to face him in the future - methinks a huge crossover with Angel, Spike, Darla and Dru is due... Some points on those cool dreams (and I still wonder if the Cheese Man had any significance): (1) Willow was painting the Names of the Goddess on Tara's back - my girlfriend said this is from The Pillow Book, and is very much in keeping with Wiccan ways. (2) It was cool Willow referred to Madame Butterfly, the opera she had to perform in the "nightmares become real" episode (3) I think there is more to both Tara and Willow than we know at the moment - having Willow be a "mole" from demon-land would be in keeping with a show that gave us evil versions of all the characters - especially Angel (and yes, I'd still rather see him with Angel than Mr. Whitebread Riley). (4) Seeing Xander's father was pretty spooky - and I wonder if Buffy referring to him as "brother" related to his still having feelings for her (feelings she doesn't share), or is more literal and weird... (5) Giles singing was stupid, funny and clever - Iliked that he was advancing the plot while performing (6) Great to see Snyder again - I miss the Mayor as a villain, and Mr. Trick as well - hopefully Whedon has some coolness up his sleeves - probably so - Angel is still one of the cleverest characters ever created (vampire with a soul, who will lose that soul and become evil if he ever experiences one moment of true happiness). (7) Did anyone notice the sand on Buffy's arm when she was in bed? I also liked the metaphor of Buffy being in a sandbox, while her past is part of a wild untamed desert - and she was a child in Giles' dream, playing at being a Slayer - I wonder if Whedon will finally address the difference that is Buffy - all other Slayers (Faith, Kendra), had trained for years before being "called up" - not Buffy - Giles meets her for the first time when she is called up - I realize this may just be an error that was never addressed, but I'll bet it's been nagging at Whedon, and he has some grand plan to explain it all... All in all, I am pleased at the death of the Initiative and the Mad Scientist Psych Prof (God, she was annoying) - I think next season will be one of the best - and Alyson - do something about your hair! This lycanthrope's gotta go meet Oz for some bayin' at the moon - later!

  • May 24, 2000, 10:07 a.m. CST

    manus card

    by Hudson Hawk

    One more thing...Manus (as seen on the tarot card handed to Buffy) is from the latin for "hands" and represents power. Also, in other eastern traditions the Manus represent the periodic saviors of various races from cataclysm (fire or water), they come around every thousand years or so. Noah (as in the ark) is believed to have been one of these people. Is Buffy being set up this way too? Or did the card just represent her being the "hand" in the joining spell used against Adam...

  • May 24, 2000, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Random thoughts re: "Restless"

    by Darla

    Look, they're just what the Subject line says... Naturally, in Xander's dream of Tara and Willow together, they were the porn idea of lesbians, all heavy makeup and revealing clothes ... "Sometimes I think of two girls doing a spell together and then I do a spell by myself" made me fall out of my chair ... I still think Whedon should/is going to make Xander a Watcher trainee and explore the Giles-as-Xander's-father-figure thing in more detail ... "I wear the cheese; the cheese does not wear me" made me do a Fresca spit-take ... Giles's song sounded exactly like the cheesy new Broadway musicals, complete with "edgy" guitar riffs. Classic! Especially the lighters. ... I think it's that Willow is beginning to realize how powerful she truly is, and is scared of wielding that power. Not unworthy, necessarily, but worried it will distance her and make her seem "weird" to others, hence the "nerdy" flashback ... And what's with her unconscious being worried about Oz nuzzling Tara? ... For Xander, Season 5 will be all about getting out of the basement (literally *and* figuratively) ... Buffy will force a paradigm shift, as the longest-surviving Slayer in history; her enlisting of her friends for their help is instrumental in her survival, of course, forcing the Council to rethink some things ... What was up with that hypnotism? Giles's line "This is the way men and women have been behaving for centuries" leads me to think he has a few unWatcher thoughts about Buffy now and then (excusable in my book; the unconscious knows no bounds) ... The whole "no rehearsal, and now it's the performance" thing about Willow's dream is the classic performance-anxiety dream (the variation is showing up for the first day of class, and it's the final exam); so I think she's worried about messing up with this major power she's coming into ...

  • May 24, 2000, 11:03 a.m. CST

    Xander's dream

    by MrEkoLetMeLive

    This was deffinitley my favorite of the 4 scooby dreams. Everything from Giles and Spike on the swing, to the movie screen outside Xander's icecream truck windows, to principal Snyder as Kurtz. I was spellbound watching it. As for what went on in Xander's dream. I think that the whole "big brother" thing was a reference to something in Xander's past. I think he probably has a dead little sister. When we see Xander's dad, he makes reference to his mother being upstairs crying. Xander doesn't want to go upstairs because he knows what's up there. He's afraid to face his family because that means facing the loss of his sister. I dunno. That's just my theory.

  • May 24, 2000, 11:50 a.m. CST

    Unresolved Issues

    by RobRed1

    1.) Xander was phsically/mentally abused by his father? 2.) The trauma in Faiths life was never followed through on. As I remember, Faith watched as Mr. Trick tortured and killed her Watcher in front of her under the orders of a Vampire crime lord who never showed up on Buffy. Faith barely escaped with her life after losing the only person in the world who had been good to her. 3.) About Dawn being the next Slayer: The previous slayer has to die before the power is passed on. Both Buffy and Faith are still alive, so where is Dawn's power going to come from? 4.) As I remember, no slayer has lived past 25. So Buffy still has a few years before reaching that goal. 5.) I still think Willow is Bi-Sexual, and its not from child-hood trauma. The best evidence is the Vampire Willow. 6.) Does anyone remember Tara putting the magic powder under her bed instead of into the fire during the spell when they wanted a magic map of demon locations? She ruined the spell. Why? What is her ultimate goal? I don't believe she's out and out evil because she could have easily not told Willow about Oz being captured! 7.) During the joining to fight Adam, Buffy was accesing the magic of Willow & Giles. Giles is a powerful warlock himself, but he learned the consequences of using magic the hard way. He's trying to protect Willow form those same mistakes. Remember, its a common belief in magic that what ever you send out comes back to you three fold!

  • May 24, 2000, 11:57 a.m. CST

    Good eps

    by All seeing I

    Ok, so this season of Buffy has been uneven, but what about the top-notch episodes it has given us? Something Blue - Excellent, Superstar - Tremedous, Hush (especially Giles and Danse Macabre) Brilliant.

  • May 24, 2000, 12:32 p.m. CST

    Faith's watcher

    by MrEkoLetMeLive

    Faith's watcher was killed by Kokistos, the vampire that Mr. Trick worked for before he worked for the Mayor. Kokistos was so old that his right hand and foot had become cloven. Buffy and Faith killed him in the episode that introduced Faith into the series.

  • May 24, 2000, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Into every generation...

    by Hudson Hawk

    Dawn would be born into the next generation. Also, the slayers are trained from a young age - they are called/summoned to a geographic location when a slayer is killed (if memory serves). Keep in mind that Giles girlfriend is not hanging out in California.

  • May 24, 2000, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Buffy: The Next Generation?

    by Darla

    ...but, Giles's girlfriend *was* hanging around when the Gentlemen came calling. If Watchers are "called" into training like Slayers are (I swear Giles made some reference to it once: "When I was 10 [or was it 12?] years old and found out I was to be a Watcher..."), is it hereditary? Are there whole Watcher families, where your great-aunt, your uncle, and three of your first cousins all are Watchers? I need to do some investigating on the Web, I guess. Anyway, the whole "Dawn" thing is quite intriguing. Even if Giles's girlfriend were to have their baby, it would be a number of years before Dawn could begin training, unless they pull that cliche "Fifteen years ago, you had a brief relationship with Gwendolyn Follows, then left for America. She never told you she was pregnant..." in which case I'd have to kick Joss Whedon in the shins several times. (Of course, I know that I'm way off the money with all of my theories; I'm always wrong when it comes to guessing the outcomes of Buffy and Angel. Which is a good.)

  • May 24, 2000, 2:08 p.m. CST


    by Hudson Hawk

    Season One: Giles says that both his father and grandmother were watchers. Zander is the son in Gile's life...Also,Angel killed Darla, not Buffy. I should stop posting and do work or something:)

  • May 24, 2000, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Maybe I need to get a life... or an unlife...

    by lycanthrope

    All the commentary on Dawn is quite interesting, but she can't be called up unless Faith dies - unless they do that "clinically dead" thing as in the Master drowning Buffy... Still, no one has addressed why Buffy Summers was never trained until she actually succeeded the previous Slayer... I think Whedon wanted to bring in a second Slayer (Kendra), then saw a way to bring in a rogue Slayer (Faith), but has never clarified these glitches in the mythos - still, maybe he has some cool ace up his sleeve - maybe Buffy IS part demon - perhaps Joyce had some dalliance she is unaware of - maybe through one of those weird artifacts she displays at the gallery... Also, they made it very clear that Giles regards Buffy as a daughter - that's why the Council fired him in the first place - I don't think he has any romantic feelings for Buffy - the hypnosis scene could be more of an attempt to unlock the secret power inside Buffy - perhaps a power that most men would try to suppress? If anyone knows the answer to my question (why did Kendra and Faith undergo years of training while Buffy did not), I'd sure like to know... Thanks, folks.

  • May 24, 2000, 3:35 p.m. CST


    by seasideslacker

    I think it's a common belief (and one i stand by) that this season has been less than spectacular on Buffy. But i know something no one else has touched on. I know WHY! Yes, yes I do. The second season (which ties with the third for tjust about the best thing ever on TV, well, except the Simpsons) had a storyline that was altered during the season. Spike was supposed to die. Angel and Drusilla were to be the main villains. Joss in his infinite wisdon realized that Spike was too good a character to kill and kep thim around, improving the season emmensly by having him play both sides of the fence (something he does quite well). Same thing goes for the third season. The main villain was originally Mr. Trick. And even though he was damn cool, he wasn't evil enough. Faith was never supposed to turn evil, but the fact that she did turned out to be one of the high points of the show. I guess my point here is that the Initiative storyline left little room for evolution. Sure, you could kill random characters and introduce new ones, but you could tell that Adam was planned out from the beginning. The problem was, he wasn't there enough. The scenes he was in were excellent, but he just wasn't a big enough part of the show to be the main villain. And if you say the Initiative was the main villain, they weren't evil enough to be the villain, they were just naive. The beaut of the second season was that Angel turned up everywhere all the time. It was great. The main villain showed up in just about every episode and always had something menacing to do or say. (I still think Xander's line "You're gonna die, and I'm gonna be there" was one of the best in the shows history) Great shows have the ability to change during the season when new, better ideas present themselves. It's a pity this season of Buffy couldn't do the same. I'm done now.

  • May 24, 2000, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Where's my last posting?

    by lycanthrope


  • May 24, 2000, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Tarot cards

    by ellid

    There's no such tarot card as "Manos - the hands." This sounds like a knock off of MSTK3.

  • May 24, 2000, 5:54 p.m. CST

    questions for those who taped it

    by Z-Man

    1. what were the other videos they rented? since xander's dream had all that Apocolypse Now stuff in it, did they include other stuff referenced in the dreams?(dracula, twin peax, oz, pillow book) 2. when xander dreams he's watching apocolypse now, is the soldier on tv xander? 3. Were all the school dreams at ucsunnydale, or were some back at the high school? (I'm 32 and I still have dreams that take place at my elementary school and my middle school) Do you say Middle School or Junior High? 4. If you had just defeated adam, what videos would you rent?

  • May 24, 2000, 6:09 p.m. CST

    The finale wasn't that bad!! ~.

    by trentm32

    The finale was pretty cool. It atleast was a nice change of pace from the normal kill the bad guy, then end the show premise that has been practiced on countless episodes before. I have to admit that it was kinda' confusing though. ~.

  • May 24, 2000, 7:36 p.m. CST

    My thoughts on Fresca, Shasta, Jolt, Tang and Schlitz Beer

    by fuzzywookie

    Wow I didn't think Fresca existed anymore....Anyway. I've only seen the episode once this morning while still nursing a Bass Ale induced hangover, so my observation might not be as keen as usual. I don't think there was even a schred of evidence about a sexual abuse past with Willow. I think you could have interpreted the "stage fright" to be either a fear of her wicked Wiccan powers or her choice of sexuality. Almost of the players on the stage were aware of her relationship with Tara, and the rest of the people in the audience were learning about it for the first time. I though Xander's dream were exActly like every dream I've ever head. You're wandering around in a hazy world where woman are offering themselves up to you, and there's also anxiety about the future. I don't think there was any added affection for Joyce, Tara or Willow, but rather he was just exhibiting his functioning maleness, AMen Giles Dream.....Jolly good show Ripper. His song was the highlight of the season. It was much better than cats, and I'm going to see it again and again. Buffy's was defintely the most complicated and, I think, with the most portent for what is to come. After all, she is the only with power to foresee events through her dreams. I think next season may be about Buffy learning her roots and origins, and perhaps becoming learned in the lore of the chosen one. I also would have like to see Willow and Tara lock lips rather than hear Hooveresque suction noises while we get a super-closeup on Xander (not Zander). Obla De Obla Da the wAlking carpet goes on.

  • May 25, 2000, 7:06 a.m. CST

    little sister

    by niveaboy

    Aren't the producers of the show looking to cast a young girl in a part that goes by the name of dawn? Could this be the little sister Faith's referring to?

  • Well, it sounded brilliant in my head this morning. On the oz/oz thing, he was back stage and there were all those curtains...does anyone remember if he was BEHIND THE CURTAIN at any point?

  • May 25, 2000, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Dawn & Dark Horizons

    by gaucho23

    The post about Dawn being a slayer was wrong. The news on Dark Horizons was that they would be introducing a new character next year named Dawn. It also said something about her having some sort of psychic or supernatural powers. he post was sometime this week, so if you guys wanted to head over to dark horizons, you should be able to find the news.

  • May 25, 2000, 10:18 a.m. CST

    Willow's Sapphic Poetry

    by redfang

    What Willow was writing on Tara's back wasn't a spell, and it wasn't "names of the goddesses" per se. Here's something lifted from USENET: Subject: RESTLESS: The writing on the back (small spoilers) From: "jere7my tho?rpe" keshlema@u... Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 01:04 EDT Message-id: keshlema-864613.01040424052000@n... No spoilers to speak of. According to my sweetie, the classicist, the Greek letters Willow was painting on Tara's back in the beginning of her dream were the opening lines of Sappho I. Sappho, of course, was a Greek poet in the seventh century B.C., well-known these days for a) writing deeply sensuous poetry and b) being a lesbian. (The fact that she grew up on the island of Lesbos is, in fact, a big part of why we have the word lesbian.) The first verse, which is what Willow was writing, is as follows: Artfully adorned Aphrodite, deathless child of Zeus and weaver of wiles I beg you please don't hurt me, don't overcome my spirit, goddess, with longing, (trans. by Jim Powell)

  • May 25, 2000, 12:37 p.m. CST



    Has everybody forgotten so quickly about Buffy's new powers. When the Scooby Gang summoned up the essence of the slayer and The First Slayer with it Buffy gained some pretty keen powers. Maybe this is the full potential of the slayer that has never been realized(they all died by age 25).Maybe the slayers never really die, they just end up as part of the slayer collective power(which would explain the first slayer being able to live in a sense after all that time). Plus Buffy looked Demonic when she gained this power, which means that the slayer must be a hybrid of some past Demon that turned on the evil of demon kind or something. After all Hell in the Buffy world is a literal place, a dimension,maybe so is heaven. Maybe there are literal angels able to turn bullets into Doves that may share a relation to Demons and to the slayer herself! Just a thouht.

  • May 25, 2000, 3:45 p.m. CST

    RE:Dawn and stuntmunky's CriMson inquiry

    by Drath

    As gaucho23 points out, Dawn has never been confirmed as the next Slayer, that's just somebody's guess. All we have is Dark Horizon's report that somebody named Dawn is coming next season, and she'll be a teenager that treats Buffy like a big sister. But beyond that we know ziltch. Dawn could be Buffy's daughter from the future(LOL), or her actual long lost little sister, or a bouncy little new comer added to the cast with the sole purpose of attracting ratings and younger horny males to the show's audience--but I digress. I suspect she's either going to be the same thing Faith was(new girl who betrays us) only younger, or she's a smokescreen character like Prof. Walsh and Mr. Trick. But I hope they explore the source of the Slayer's power again next season. Stuntmunky, Crimson is a comic book--WAIT don't turn away yet, it's actually interesting because it uses old mythology, religion, folk lore, demons and angels, and mixes them all together with Vampires and the old Battle of good and evil. A Grigori named Ekimus and Adam's first bride Lillith are the father and mother of all vampires and demons, only now he is on a path of redemption(he become a Watcher of sorts), while his old flame Lillith rules evil on Earth and corrupts all his students to her side. It's very similar to Buffy in tone, though it doesn't have as many good female characters. The lead character is sort of what Xander would be like if somebody turned him into an evolved vampire(with a soul and magic powers) and then told him he was the Chosen One. Actually, it's a bit like the Matrix with magic instead of VR and Sci Fi. Very neat, with very good art and color, and even good dialogue, something that's unusual for comics and the reason I don't pay them much attention. There are two good trade paper backs that collect the first 12 issues and bring it to a decent conclusion if you're still interested(both can be found at Borders periodically).

  • Gaucho23 was right, the story at Dark Horizons doesn't say that "Dawn" will be a slayer. Guess I was just projecting. However, I still am firmly convinced that she is the "little sister" referred to in the dream at the beginning of the season. Whedon likes to plan ahead.

  • May 26, 2000, 2:16 p.m. CST

    a. hannigan is LEAVING....

    by MGTHEDJ

    ok. this will be y 5 and contracts are up. when willow was attacked by the first slayer, her SKIN TURNED GOLD AND HER EYES WENT COMPLETELY GREEN, the same as angel charater THE ORACLE. and those characters were killed in angel season finally. wil says tara won't tell her her real name+tara sabotaged the spell early in the year= tara is one of the haram/slave girls from the angel ep with bai lin (i think it was her). we never saw tara with her hair up except for this dream and the slaves have ridges on their spinal column. this also explains tara's line "they know about you" they being tara's slave hunters from the other dimension. 2) Xander: going to his parents upstairs/becoming his parents is not the way to get out of his situation. 3) in anya's alternate world with no buffy, both giles and angel said they waited for buffy but she never came to sunnydale, but if slayers are trained from early childhood then i agree buffy's paternaty will by the main story arc next season (we've never seen her dad). concluding, buffy's paternity and tara being one of the alien slave girls are the main storys. WAIT, it just hit me, and i am serious about this, Xanders dad and willow's "feeling safe" issues posting: WHAT IF XAN'S DAD MOLESTERD WILLOW??? oh boy. not good.

  • May 26, 2000, 2:18 p.m. CST

    a. hannigan is LEAVING....

    by MGTHEDJ

    ok. this will be y 5 and contracts are up. when willow was attacked by the first slayer, her SKIN TURNED GOLD AND HER EYES WENT COMPLETELY GREEN, the same as angel charater THE ORACLE. and those characters were killed in angel season finally. wil says tara won't tell her her real name+tara sabotaged the spell early in the year= tara is one of the haram/slave girls from the angel ep with bai lin (i think it was her). we never saw tara with her hair up except for this dream and the slaves have ridges on their spinal column. this also explains tara's line "they know about you" they being tara's slave hunters from the other dimension. 2) Xander: going to his parents upstairs/becoming his parents is not the way to get out of his situation. 3) in anya's alternate world with no buffy, both giles and angel said they waited for buffy but she never came to sunnydale, but if slayers are trained from early childhood then i agree buffy's paternaty will by the main story arc next season (we've never seen her dad). concluding, buffy's paternity and tara being one of the alien slave girls are the main storys. WAIT, it just hit me, and i am serious about this, Xanders dad and willow's "feeling safe" issues posting: WHAT IF XAN'S DAD MOLESTERD WILLOW??? oh boy. not good.

  • May 26, 2000, 2:26 p.m. CST


    by MGTHEDJ

    sorry for the typo in the last post, it should have been molested. and to willow"all the worlds a stage and we are merely players." from the other will.

  • May 26, 2000, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Sarah Michelle Gellar

    by Andymation

    Sarah Michelle Gellar is a sex godess!!! Slay me girl....Anyway, Buffy will never be better than mediocrity. An "Angel!", - Blarf - How many spin-offs can someone actually spin outta' somethin'?

  • May 26, 2000, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Giles singing

    by hausertreyen

    FYI-- it should come as no surprise to anyone that Giles can sing, as Anthony Head is the brother of Murray head, the guy who wrote the 80's hit "One Night in Bangkok." It's probably him actually singing and I'd bet he can also play guitar. PS -- the greek translation on the back of Tara -- color me impressed. Hauser

  • May 28, 2000, 1:57 a.m. CST

    Buffy has gone down hill.

    by DigitalKnight

    This season has been the worst. The show has gone downhill.

  • May 28, 2000, 10:13 p.m. CST

    slayer origins

    by luck

    I've just decided to share my own llony theories about the orign of the slayers, from the Buffy Universe (duh).

  • May 28, 2000, 10:14 p.m. CST

    slayer origins

    by luck

    I've just decided to share my own llony theories about the orign of the slayers, from the Buffy Universe (duh).

  • May 28, 2000, 10:22 p.m. CST

    slayer origins- adendum

    by luck

    Sorry about the previous message. A little confusion from my part. Returning to the subjecct: Why would a force of good subject countless generations of girls to a life of misery, violence and a grisly death at the end? Answer: pennance. It's a theory of mine that the first slayer, or perhaps her mother, did an horrible crime in the past, letting the demons loose on the world. As a result, the female descendants of this person (I assume the perp is female to explain why males are not called to duty) are called to correct this first error. I know it's a little loony, and perhaps a little sexist, in retrospect, but it's the only thng that mmakes any sense for this seemingly cruelty towards all those little girls. Any comments?

  • July 13, 2000, 6:30 p.m. CST


    by Jubieloo

    to tell the truth i didnt read this whole article, i just skipped right to the talkback section so i could say "hurray for buffy, the best show on TV these days!!" it is funny, intelligent, and fun...and u get so attached to all the characters...anyway, thats all i wanted to say, enjoy tuesday night reruns!!