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The Kidd Vs. ZERO DARK THIRTY

 

Right from the start of ZERO DARK THIRTY, when Kathryn Bigelow makes the decision not to show the events of 9/11, leaving the horrific images of the planes and the buildings that have been permanently ingrained in my mind since that awful day out of the equation, but simply using the sounds of the 9-1-1 calls that went out that day from people experiencing those horrors, you know this is going to be a much different film dealing with the events September 11 and beyond. Everything changed on that fateful day, and ZERO DARK THIRTY takes a good look at how so, detailed the efforts of our intelligence agencies to locate and hunt Osama bin Laden, an event that finally reached its head after a decade of disappointment and hope in following his trail.

The film follows Maya, played by Jessica Chastain, a killer by Washington’s standards, who is put on al-Qaeda detail in the hopes that her intelligence and expertise on the matter may bring the United States closer to some sort of deadly resolution in finding the man responsible for the deaths of 3,000 Americans back in 2001. She recognizes Pakistan is “kind of fucked-up,” and it’s quite clear that she doesn’t really have the stomach for torture being used at various Black Site locations as a means to getting vital al-Qaeda information from its captured members, but she takes her duty in hunting bin Laden quite seriously, perhaps more seriously than anything else in her life, because this is her life. Finding Osama bin Laden is all she has and all she wants. It’s a fixation... an obsession in many ways… to do her job and do it to the best of her ability, which means finding the man wherever he may be hiding period.

Regardless of the impressive cast that Bigelow has assembled – Kyle Chandler, James Gandolfini, Joel Edgerton, Chris Pratt, Mark Duplass, Jennifer Ehle, Edgar Ramirez – ZERO DARK THIRTY is absolutely Chastain’s film to carry, and, as she’s proven in every other film she’s been involved in, she brings nothing short of her best the second she steps out onto the screen. She is the emotional core of the film, which, like her character’s mindset, can be cold at times. This isn’t a role that’s meant to dazzle or entertain you, nor is this film. This is a serious procedural that shows the steps the C.I.A. took over the years in building their leads on Osama bin Laden to finally go into a walled compound in Abbottabad with the assessment that that is where he was. Step by step, the missteps of the intelligence community are on display, from their failed attempts to buy information from those in the know (Maya is smart enough to point out in one of the film’s “Told you so” moments that al-Qaeda is a group of radicals that value other things much higher than money) to their successes, such as using call monitoring and phone tapping to find bin Laden’s most trusted courier, a break that would lead them directly to their ultimate target.

The pace of ZERO DARK THIRTY can be a bit dizzying at times, because you’re trying to keep track of all of these names and their importance to the al-Qaeda hierarchy, not to mention the various locations where these events are taking place, but when you break ZERO DARK THIRTY down to its simplest form, it is simply about Chastain’s Maya keeping her eye on the prize, because she doesn’t know anything else. She doesn’t have a husband or a boyfriend; in fact, you may even wonder if she wants one. For all intents and purposes, her boyfriend during her time with the C.I.A. is Osama bin Laden, and she is going to do everything in her power not to let him out of her sight. She barely even has any friends, unless you consider her work colleagues, who she spends most of her time talking about al-Qaeda and bin Laden with. Her mission is more than her job; it’s her.

Bigelow refuses to take the bait of dramatizing Maya and her motivations for becoming so engrossed in the task at hand. We don’t know if she lost family or friends on September 11. We don’t know if she’s seeking some type of emotional closure herself to seeing bin Laden killed. And ZERO DARK THIRTY is better off for leaving those things alone, because this isn’t that kind of movie. At best, Maya states at one point that she believes she was spared to finish a job that others have died trying to do. She believes she is meant to get this done, and she’ll be damned if she is going to come out on the short end of that stick.

Jason Clarke turns in an outstanding performance as one of Maya’s first colleagues on the job, Dan. Dan is an interrogator at one of the undisclosed C.I.A. detainment locations, using waterboarding and sleep deprivation among the many tactics up his sleeve to try to get information. However, over time, you can see that these actions, aimed to break the prisoners, also wind up breaking the enforcers. Unless they’ve suffered some type of mental break along the way, there’s only so much punishment one can dish out to another human being, enemy or not, before it starts to alter your own sensibilities. Bigelow doesn’t shy away from the brutality of such tactics, while taking a pretty firm position that those means didn’t really help us in trying to find bin Laden; in the end, it was solid police and detective work that really broke the case wide open. In fact, anyone who offers up the idea that ZERO DARK THIRTY glorifies torture or forwards the perspective that torture is a valid way to get credible intel didn’t actually watch the movie. However, it’s important for Bigelow to examine these actions, at a time when politics left plenty of wiggle room for it to occur, in that it makes the intelligence-gathering side of the C.I.A.’s operations all the more impressive.

    

All of this builds to a Navy SEAL team being given the green light to raid the compound in Abbottabad, which, even knowing the outcome, is some of the most tense filmmaking I’ve seen this year. Making their way around a location with high security walls and blacked-out windows, the SEALs move room by room, eliminating the targets and threats inside. Bigelow employs night vision camera work to place the audience collectively as the last member of the SEAL team, maneuvering through this dangerous mission as if you’re right there in the middle of it. It makes for a gripping sequence of events, but not one that may come across as you might think. This isn’t meant to be an exciting action set-up, so much as a realistic depiction of the seriousness of this breach. It’s anything but a rah-rah moment of patriotism for the United States getting their man, as it serves more as a sense of relief that this is finally over (the search, not the movie) for all of us that remember the events of 9/11 all too vividly but also for Maya, who’s life has been consumed by this hunt. As these moments are unfolding, you’re not stirred to just scream out” America, fuck yeah!” A deep breath and an under your breath muttering of “Whew… finally…” seems more in order.

Bigelow has once turned out another great film, with Mark Boal’s screenplay smartly whizzing through the mundane process of the C.I.A.’s daily dealings (after all, it does span a decade, so not everything can be shown). The important details are made to count while building this intriguing character who can think of nothing else than what she’s been tasked with doing. This is a film that will stay with you for sometime, and the more you discuss it, the deeper you’ll find yourself being pulled into it, its story and some of its ideas. I went to bed respecting it, and woke up the next morning liking it a hell of a lot more. In fact, in writing this review, I’ve come to love it even more than that… so expect a film that will grow with you over time, but, even upon first viewing, it is still a fantastic picture.

 

-Billy Donnelly

"The Infamous Billy The Kidd"

BillyTheKidd@aintitcool.com

Follow me on Twitter.

Readers Talkback
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  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:15 p.m. CST

    test

    by xega

    test

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:21 p.m. CST

    The Kidd vs. Being a Good Writer

    by Garbageman33

    The Kidd loses, once again. Seriously, how much groveling would it take to get Moriarty back? Or have Quint do something more than once a month? The writing on this site is a far cry from what it used to be.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Although everyone knows the outcome of these events...

    by quicksilver80

    Should this review have a spoiler tag? I don't know, the situation is weird

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:22 p.m. CST

    I've seen ZERO DARK THIRTY for about a month now.

    by The_Cellarrat

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Dear Kidd,

    by whatyoufear

    Please learn how to write. Sincerely, - Concerned Reader

  • Bin Laden died over 10 years ago of kidney failure, and if you brainwashed, hypnotized, useless dumb cunts still haven't figured this out, then you deserve all the rape and molestation you continue to receive in your lives. I hope your lying criminal government rapes you until you have no blood left to shit out of your assholes. I laugh as the final act of USA's history is being played out right before our eyes. I am enjoying the show.

  • Huh? This review may not be as memorable for all the wrong reasons as Harry's Jack Reacher review, but that line makes no sense at all with the extra "you're."

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:36 p.m. CST

    well I'm just glad that since OBL has been killed...

    by Righteous Brother

    America is a much safer place.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:38 p.m. CST

    I love the copy EDITORS on this talk back......

    by DadeOrAlive

    YAWN. YAWN. YAWN.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Reviews at this site make it clear...

    by gboybama

    That the film is anti-torture of terrorists. Thus, I shall not be seeing it. This is more agenda driven Hollywood nonsense. We can't afford to go weak in the knees in today's world folks.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:42 p.m. CST

    fuck you bigelow way to kill americans

    by Creative

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:43 p.m. CST

    more star trek the dark rises on the site plz

    by CT1

    need more non-news

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:43 p.m. CST

    the_cellarrat I've see your mom for about a month now.

    by peter

    very nice lady. Not like Dorothy Mantooth. I took her out for a nice steak dinner and never rang her again.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:44 p.m. CST

    ___emperor___ uh, you have issues dude. serious issues.

    by peter

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:45 p.m. CST

    emperor your tinfoil cap looks a little tight

    by Fico

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:49 p.m. CST

    reposting myself- Who's more annoying?

    by schadenfreudian

    Conspiracy theorists, militant Christians, or militant vegetarians? Discuss...

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Re: the torture aspect

    by MoaKaka

    People like to ignore the fact that the U.S. admitted TORTURE DOESN'T WORK. We don't need to torture people just to show the world that our cock is bigger. You guys know we executed people after WWII for torturing prisoners, right? So if torture is ok, are the people who killed the WWII torturers now burning in hell themselves, for the unjustified executions? Or, if torture is so bad that we were justified in killing people who did it, does that mean the current torturers should be executed? Or is it a double-standard - torture is ok so long as WE'RE doing it, but worth the death penalty if somebody else is doing it? I hope none of you guys are Christians. I'd hate to think what will happen in the afterlife to people who think torture is ok.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 1:08 p.m. CST

    gboybama - your boy lost, and you still can't get over it

    by evergreen

    That's what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass. The Kidd is doing just fine.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Trading Places - 5th January - CANNOT WAIT!

    by larsson

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Merry New Year!!

    by larsson

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 1:13 p.m. CST

    For those of you who like reading books without pictures...

    by crashcow

    Read 'No Easy Day'. If a first-hand account book can shake the 'offical White House' version of events to the point that certain government agencies go after the author, you know it's a good read.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Who let Alex Jones in?

    by quicksilver80

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 1:21 p.m. CST

    crashcow - how excatly do the accounts differ?

    by evergreen

    Were Reptilians involved?

  • and people are already emotionally attached to the subject? only time will tell.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 1:49 p.m. CST

    it doesnt take much to see the official story is fiction

    by john

    Just google 'Bin laden CIA'

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST

    OSAMA LIVES!

    by Simpsonian

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST

    obviously it's fiction. like all good tall stories..

    by larsson

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 2:08 p.m. CST

    What!? The Kidd liked something

    by Wcwlkr

    That in itself is shocking & disturbing at the same time. LOL

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Does her movie begin with us arming Bin Laden to fight the Soviets???

    by kindofabigdeal

    I guess we should just veiw Rambo 3 as the prequel.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 2:51 p.m. CST

    You guys need to cut Kidd some slack...

    by REMcycle

    ...there's a reason he writes for the site and you don't.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 3:02 p.m. CST

    Who really cares?

    by Monroville

    It might be a good movie and all, but it's kinda like VALKYRIE (2008): whether the attempts failed or succeeded, in the end it doesn't really matter. Killing Osama some 10 years AFTER the dirty deed was done would be like killing Hitler in the 1960's. Yay, you got him.. but it's a little too late. And for the record? Water boarding DID work (at least according to the people in the C.I.A. who were involved with extracting info from the captured terrorists). The line about "torture not working" is just more bunk along the lines of the Warren commission. The sad fact is torture ALWAYS works, whether it is extracting information or just breaking someone's will. Yes, it is evil, but nevertheless it does work. Also keep in mind that torture doesn't have to be the typical medieval physical variety. One can be tortured into submission from: - excessive lawsuits - excessive harassment - excessive rejection and isolation - excessive targeting to standards that those around you are allowed to slide past You get the point.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 3:02 p.m. CST

    I love how the conspiracy nutjobs show up at every ZDT talkback.

    by Quake II

    The movie looks great and I'm 100% on opening day.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 3:04 p.m. CST

    back off spewbacca....

    by Righteous Brother

    seriously.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 3:08 p.m. CST

    _emperor_ is actually a college history professor. FACT!!!!

    by Quake II

    And my asshole is still bleeding so I guess my lying criminal government didn't rape me hard enough to cause complete blood loss. Whew, that's a relief!

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 3:49 p.m. CST

    But Quake II, that what makes these kind of TBs so much fun!

    by Monroville

    Everyone believes in conspiracy theories, and for one simple reason: Never trust a rich person who is either excessively eager or bored.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 3:49 p.m. CST

    I guess that goes for poor people too...

    by Monroville

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 4:11 p.m. CST

    Torture does work

    by rainbowtrout1265

    An uncle fought in WWII and told stories about how he witnessed a captured German being tortured (in much worse ways than waterboarding) and the soldier gave crucial info. He says he could never get the images out of his head but it ended up saving lives.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 5:30 p.m. CST

    The kidds gotta eat...

    by Jones Jonez

    So he spams the site with shite

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 5:38 p.m. CST

    so which Bin Laden did they kill?

    by PlayerHater_of_the_year

    Every time they showed Bin Laden on CNN or Fox it was different guy. Was it Tall Skinny Bin Laden or the fat laughing Bin laden with the gold rings (who I'm told by an Arabic speaking friend had an American accent) or maybe it was black beard Bin Laden, remember him? Maybe those Seals were so awesome they got all the Bin Ladens at once. And then buried them all at sea. So we can't ever see the bodies. And we can't ask those Seals because they were all killed a helicopter crash a few weeks later. Case closed. USA USA USA USA

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 5:44 p.m. CST

    @playerhater

    by schadenfreudian

    we can't ask those Seals because they were all killed a helicopter crash a few weeks later

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 5:44 p.m. CST

    Goddam this fucking site...

    by schadenfreudian

    I posted this in quotes and it deleted the rest of my comment... -we can't ask those Seals because they were all killed a helicopter crash a few weeks later- Which ones? The guys who got Bin Laden?

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 6:06 p.m. CST

    What are you talking about playerhater?

    by elsachmo

    Nothing you said makes any sense at all.

  • Sounds like the opening of Fahrenheit 9/11...

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 8:49 p.m. CST

    Why do people believe the kidney failure conspiracy bullshit?

    by DBCOOPER

    Seriously, why? The only reason you people think he died from kidney failure was because the intelligence community issued assessments that they thought Bin Laden might have died, the very same intelligence community that is now universally saying he was killed by Navy Seals.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Conspiracy theorists

    by KGersen

    are typically dumb to maybe semi-educated twats who desperately want to find some justification to feel superior to others, hence the claims that they have the inside dope, everyone else is a dumbass and a 'sheeple' (any person who uses that term or in general calls people sheep is a guaranteed twat of the highest order), that they have access to, or understanding of information that others don't, yadda yadda, boring gibbering ad infinitum. God they're tiresome fuckers.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 9:50 p.m. CST

    The problem with films like this...

    by WeylandYutani

    is that they bring out the loons on message boards like this. It does not matter if the film is good, bad, accurate or inaccurate.

  • Dec. 19, 2012, 11:11 p.m. CST

    IVE BEEN WATCHING ZERO DARK THIRTY FOR ABOUT A MONTH NOW

    by PRESIDENT BALTAR

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 1:55 a.m. CST

    As someone who can't eat certain types of meat, like beef...

    by solvseus

    ... part of me hates vegetarians. Seriously, you have no idea how truly annoying they really are unless you yourself are forced to live like them. Beef makes me violently ill now, but I always have to say I'm not "one of them" when I mention I can't eat it. Some do it for health reasons, some just don't like it, some are trying to do what they think is right, but some are just annoying for the sake of being annoying, like hipsters. I don't miss it at all (except bologna for some reason, which is weird since I know exactly where it comes from... gross) but I never begrudge other people for eating it. A lot of what we eat is disgusting if you really look at it, and let's face it, we're just animals ourselves. Try as we might to pretend otherwise. Which is why we're ok with torture (morality, ethics, and legality aside) despite it being a generally ineffective means of interrogation, unless you're trying to illicit false confessions (just ask McCain), compared to other more successful methods (unless you believe Liz Cheney and the guy who destroyed the CIA interrogation tapes over the actual experts, which as someone who has studied the issue, I don't). And conspiracy theorists can suck it, because you ruin it for the rest of us who may have legitimate non-crazy questions.

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 2:38 a.m. CST

    remcycle

    by David Duchovny

    I can name 15 posters who have better insights into films than this guy--and one of them is creepythinman. The Kidd is no Mr. Beaks--and he sure isn't what Harry used to be. He's more like half of what Harry is now.

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 2:41 a.m. CST

    Alex Jones has been getting really

    by David Duchovny

    evangelical and weepy lately. You can tell Obama is doing a great job. I predict a suicide soon. Party at my house. Hopefully Glenn Beck does the deed on the same day and I'll make it a double kegger.

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 9:30 a.m. CST

    Night vision shots!

    by Pat

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 12:16 p.m. CST

    Well, if you have any doubts about these events..

    by malificus

    ..you could always speak directly to the men who were actually in the room at the time...um..except I think they died shortly thereafter in a copter crash. Well, we could easily exhume Osama's body and test the DNA that would...well..except they tossed his body overboard and sunk it somewhere in the sea. At the worst we could talk to whoever was on board ship and actually saw something getting tossed overboard..except, no one was allowed to witness the ceremony. Hmmmm. Guess I'll take this movie at face value, Hurt Locker was such an accurate portrayal after all.

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Hey does anyone one remeber

    by HoraceSkinner

    Bigelow wrote this movie and began filming before osama was killed ? This is a work of fiction folks. Like hitler in inglorious basterds, slave vs slave ultimate fighting, and most of lincon. Movies aren't the history channel. Hell the history channel is often wrong

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 1 p.m. CST

    malificus

    by schadenfreudian

    So, you're saying Navy Seal Team Six were all killed in a helicopter crash?

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 2:03 p.m. CST

    I know categorically that some members..

    by malificus

    ..died in a helicopter crash. Would it surprise me if these men specifically were in the room with a bullet-riddled corpse? Not so much. It sure would tie up a few hanging threads IF there were a tapestry involved.

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 3:04 p.m. CST

    get me 2 utah!.... Utah....2!

    by peter

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Ah, I see...

    by schadenfreudian

    Well, there WAS the guy who wrote the book about it. As far as I know, he's still around to answer questions. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/09/mark-owen-60-minutes- interview_n_1869417.html Good luck getting in touch with him.

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 3:37 p.m. CST

    horaceskinner

    by MainMan2001

    slave vs slave was real you dip shit read a fucking book.

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 7:45 p.m. CST

    main man ... slave vs slave death matches

    by HoraceSkinner

    Bullshit man I read plenty Frwd me the slave vs slave thunderdome book and ill read it to. You naive twit

  • Dec. 20, 2012, 10:36 p.m. CST

    The truth about 9/11. Read carefully, dipshits.

    by Emperor

    The greatest misconceptions that 9/11 pwoofers have: 1) U.S government is too incompetent. Or any government is too incompetent for that matter 2) Bush is a clown and therefore unable to plan something like this 3) Why would US government intentionally orchestrate an event to damage its own reputation and standing world wide 4) There would have been whistle blowers by now and the planning would have 'leaked.' Secrets cannot be kept. All of these strawmen are demonstrably false. 1) US government is incompetent to the degree that ignorant outsiders perceive it to be. US 'government' itself is a vaguely understood notion, much like 'reality' or 'logic' or 'truth' etc. Noone reading this, not even our disinfo shill Steve Shives, knows exactly what the US government is or how it operates. Firstly, you need to have a very clear picture of what modern-day 'governments' are and how they operate. They DO NOT operate in the manner you think they do. That's one thing to remember. Without climbing into the stratosphere, you don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to at least research 'black' (unlisted/unregulated/unconstrained) units in US government. Firstly, you know that black budgets exist, yes? Do you know that there are black projects, black budgets in government, yes? You can research that on something 'open' like wikipedia. However, did you know that there are units in government, that are beyond 'black'? Probably not. This is all a matter of research. So, once you figure out that Black Budgets and Black projects are an integral part of US government, you need to try to discover projects that have gone beyond black (beyond the jurisdiction of the US treasury). Do you need to be a tin foil hat wearing nutjob, to recognize that if certain INTERESTS (which you may be completely ignorant of) converge, then there can be projects funded beyond the treasury's visibility. Example: Federal Reserve. But it seems clean and harmless... Do you need to be a tin foil hat wearing nut job, to be aware of 'secret' (unregulated, unpublicized, undocumented) meetings between various individuals in business, government and technology? No. These meetings occur every year (Bilderberg, CFR, TC etc). Sure, they seem harmless on the outside. Sure, Alex Jones and David Icke seem crazy. But when was the last time you sat in one of those meetings? When was the last time you read what they discussed? How about: NEVER? Does this mean those particular units planned 9/11? I never stated that. I am establishing some basic ground work, to be able to acknowledge, that there are many units in Government and Finance and Technology, that are unknown and unknowable (even if you tried to know) by the public. Do you think this is warranted and justifiable in a supposed open and transparent democracy? Think about those things, before you start screeching and squeeling as if you have the entire world figured out. Back to the incompetence issue. Incompetence depends on what you deem competent for what you deem relevant. For example: I might choose to intentionally crash my car, (or have somebody else crash into me), to obtain an insurance payout to pay some bills. Hey, my own dad actually tried to do that very thing, until I talked him out of it (didn't want him risking his life). But this sort of insurance fraud happens all the time. Many people successfully get away with it. INTENTIONAL incompetence. So intentional incompetence is not a conspiracy notion. What makes people think that individuals in government (not the same thing as GOVERNMENT itself), wouldn't engage in such behaviour? Because they are more moral than you? Because they have passed a test that certifies scientifically that they are moral enough to practice politics? All indications show (even in the controlled media), that most politicians are lacking in some basic morals. Wouldn't you agree? So, the 'competence/incompetence' issue is based on the public's notion of what the government should be doing according to them. What if the government is in fact quite content to do other things, despite stating openly that it wishes to do the opposite? Is this so difficult to believe? When was the last time you were able to verify factually, that the good old US government actually did anything that benefited a large group of citizens (from any country), including its own? People attack Bushs' 'competence' a lot, yet it seems like he was very competent in doing exactly what he wanted to do. Middle Eastern war. Tick. Paying off business and technology buddies and buddies in finance. Tick. Controlling oil pipelines and building bases in Middle East to be able to attack other countries (eg Iran). Tick. Consolidating government power and removing power from US citizens. Tick. It seems as if Bush (or his superiors) isn't that incompetent after all... Sure, he cannot string together a coherent sentence if his life depended on it. Sure he doesn't know his asshole from his ear hole. But does that matter? The straw man here is the notion that BUSH is the one calling the shots. Silly conspiracy theory? Once again, it's well known and uncontroversial, that other elements/units have higher authority than president, when it comes to Government decision. Example: Federal Reserve. Many claim Reagan took his orders from Bush Snr. Conspiracy? None of these issues I have mentioned, are in and of themselves conspiratorial. The problem is, many pwoofers are unwilling (or unable) to join the dots and form a unified, coherent picture in their mind. Admittedly, many twoofers cannot do this either (which is why they are in many cases easy targets). But that is NOT a symptom of the Truth movement. That's a symptom of society in general. Most people are lacking in mental capacity (truth movement or not). So there goes another strawman. So, the notion of government '(in)competence' far predates the actual 9/11 event. The US government didn't miraculously decide to become incompetent for 9/11. The US government was corrupted and infiltrated by 'rogue' units a very long time ago. OMG, HE SAID 'ROGUE UNITS'!!! THIS GUY IS FUCKING INSANE!!! Well ask yourself this: When was the last time a US president actually did what they said? When was the last time anything actually changed in America, except for the worse. When was the last time you can actually say, with a straight face, that a subsequent president outperformed a previous president. Many people actually think (with good reason) that USA is worse off with Obama, than with Bush. Does that strike you as awfully strange? Perhaps it does. That's because you don't understand that that's how it is meant to be, Superman Obama or not. And I promise you, USA will be worse again, 4 years from now. Why? BECAUSE GOVERNMENT IS NOT INCOMPETENT. the "government" is in fact very competent in where it wishes to go and how it wishes to do so and what excuses/justifications it will use to get there. So this slowly moves us to point 3 (skipping point 2, because I incorporated it briefly into point 1). 3) The massive question on many people's minds is: Okay, so the government might be intentionally incompetent, but destroying the country to gain oil fields, isn't that a bad idea? Isn't that bad logic? Doesn't seem too smart... This is another strawman. It assumes that individuals who are corrupted instigators of government incompetence, actually have allegiance to their very country. OMG, TIN FOIL HAT!!! THE GUY IS TOTALLY INSANE!! OUR PRESIDENTS AND POLITICIANS LOVE AMERICA!!! Sure they do. That's why they have done a pretty darn good job at destroying almost any credibility that USA may once have had. Are they just plain stupid? Well, I refuted this before. They are not stupid. It's just that once again, you don't know what's going on. President Obama, or President Bush, or Condi Rice, or Dick Cheney, care anymore about USA, than you care about USA (if you actually cared, you'd get off your lazy ass, stop watching bullshit on TV, and lynch almost every politician you could find, for doing what they have done to your country. So don't act so outraged. You're part of the problem, dumbass). So, it's a misconception that your leaders have loyalties to USA. Conspiracy theory? Okay. Ask yourself this: If you had the power they had, how much would you care about the international standing and long-term success of your country? You might be thinking "this guy is assuming." No, I am not assuming. I am observing. I observe millions of americans who literally do not give a flying fuck about their country, and they were bought off with much less (gadgets/toys/TV/porn/internet/games/horror - tragedy sensationalism/etc). So, observe yourself. Almost everybody in this world, is running around, pre-occupied with SURVIVING/ENTERTAINING THEMSELVES. Very few people are occupied with trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. And those very few people who are, are attacked, marginalized, called demeaning names "nutjobs/crackpots/kooks/etc" by those very people, who don't even have the time/energy/motivation to look a little beyond what their mushy brains were fed in the 6 O'clock news. So, you can only blame yourself... I seriously question the intelligence of anybody, who believes the US government (or any modern government in the world) has a genuine hierarchical structure of authority (President --> Vice President --> Secretary of State -->etc). This is a massive strawman and easily used to manipulate opinion in the world. It's a basic way for the media to divert attention away from how anything operates at all, and thus makes it simpler to dismiss so-called 'conspiracy' theories. I bet you are thinking "hey, I don't believe that. Strawman!" Okay. So how often do you hear "president of USA = most powerful man in the world"? That is a basic, open and blatant shit inside your face. It's a huge insult to anybody's intelligence. Even an idiot's. Yet how many people actually notice this, or question this? President of USA is not even the 1 thousandth most powerful person in the world. I'd genuinely be surprised, if he made it to the top 5 thousand. And this brings me to the notion of conditioning. These people know that humans are slaves to conditioning (conspiracy theory? Just observe the billions in religion and how successfully they have killed each other throughout history). Therefore, they know how easy it is to manipulate people through repeated bits of simple, digestible, superficial information. "Obama most powerful man in the world." "Bin Laden most dangerous man in world." "Al Qaeda most dangerous terrorists..." etc. And I am sure some people will say "But man, Obama is a christian!!! He goes to Church!!! Bush Loves God!!! They never considered manipulating us poor souls!!?? They love us!! They Love america!! They Love god and want the best for us!!" Okay. So when was the last time you actually believed that with a straight face? Does it seem so outlandish to think that these individuals use religion and vacuous phrases to simply CONDITION YOUR DUMB, IMPRESSIONABLE MINDS? Conspiracy theory? Sure. It's a conspiracy theory. But at what point are you going to stop labeling every single thing a conspiracy theory, every single tiny step of the way, and actually be willing to join factual/plausible dots together and see where it leads and compare the end result with what's actually happening? At what point are you willing to use a hypothesis, based on observation, follow it through logically, and see if the conclusion mirrors reality? Scientists do it all the time. Try it. Considering that many members in US government are members of US GOVERNMENT INDEPENDENT orders such as UN, CFR, TC, Bilderberg (remember, this is all verifiable information, not conspiracy, and openly documented), does it seem so implausible that perhaps they, I dunno, care more about THOSE groups, rather than USA? Hey, be honest. If you joined those groups, you too would care more about them, than you do about good ol' USA. And don't you deny it. You already don't care anyway. So that's another refutation of that strawman, that the individuals behind 9/11 give 2 shits about you, their country, or the fate of USA. And if you still cannot join these basic dots I have carefully chewed and spoon fed to your dumb, ignorant, infinitely superior asses, then I claim that you flunked every basic science class, because even in science, we move from: Observation, Hypothesis, Experiment, Theory. And guess what? USA is a wonderful scientific experiment in progress. 4) This brings me to pwoofer strawman number 4. The whistleblower strawman. Firstly, this assumes that whistleblowers didn't/don't exist to begin with. Believe it or not, they did (and do). Why don't you follow some cases yourself? There's plenty of interviews, for example, with Susan Lindauer on youtube. I am sure some people will start attacking her, as if she is the only one. There are also those who have died (*cough*, been killed). But this is besides the point. Let's take a closer look. This assumes, for instance, that an operation like 9/11 is well understood. It is not. Nobody in the truth movement claims they have understood even half of what actually happened that day -- and for good reason. It's still largely unknown. The only people who think they know it all, are the apes who say "Well, I don't really know what happened, but I'll go with the government version. I guess those passports and passenger lists and NIST reports seem pretty genuine. ***Shrug***" This brings me to the issue of why it is so easy to attack a 9/11 truther: Precisely because it's very vaguely known what actually happened. It's always easier to destroy (attack) a position, than it is to build one. Don't believe me? Try prosecuting a murderer. It's always far easier to create 'reasonable doubt' than to prove a defendant guilty. This is also a somewhat mathematical issue (see NP versus P problem in mathematics). Or just look at the laws of physics. It's always easier (due to the second law of thermodynamics) to break a cup than to build one. Look at biology. It's always easier to destroy an organism, than to 'create' it. Concrete example: Try making a baby. It takes a lot of energy (sex), favorable environmental conditions (probability/heat/energy transfer/etc) and a period of time (9 months), etc. Now once that baby is born, it takes a few seconds and a blunt object to kill it. What's my point? My point is, it's always going to be easier to attack a 9/11 truther, because they are in the process of creating (forming a legitimate theory) a case for the prosecution of culprits within the USA government. You are always going to get nutjobs, who make up wild and silly theories (fake planes, Bush planned it, passengers were executed, etc). They become convenient patsies in order to discredit an entire movement. You narrow minded apes still haven't figured this out. So with respect to the whistleblowers, it rests on the premise that everybody (or nearly everybody) in government had something to do with this. Not once have any of you sat down for a moment to think how it could be pulled off, with just a small number of people who truly knew every aspect and phase of this operation (it could be reduced to as few as 10 or 20 people). A model for such a case exists, on 911research[dot]com. It doesn't mean it's true, but few people have explored it. This short-sighted, short-attention spanned generation of know-it-alls who get their current events from regurgitated vomit in their media outlets (even the so-called 'independent' ones), think you have a monopoly on information in this world. This is why most of you so easily succumb to those so-called 'debunking' websites. Make no mistake, those debunkers have no intention of getting to the truth. Their only goal is to discredit truth seekers, even beyond the movement itself. So, back to the whistle blower issue. You do not need to have thousands of individuals involved in some conscious conspiracy (received a letter, stating: "you will play your part in operation 9/11. Your check and tools are included with this letter. Good luck and this is Top Secret, so don't tell anyone.") The people who orchestrated this are not that stupid. As I said before, they have a very keen and thorough understanding of human psychology. They know most wouldn't keep quiet. In addition, this misrepresents what actually happened on 9/11. A lot of people think explosives brought the WTCs down. This is not proven. A Russian nuclear engineer makes a good case that it was in fact a single, small, nuclear detonation deep underground, which caused rising pressure in the WTC towers to pulverize the buildings. He makes a very strong argument and there's a lot of evidence to support it, if you actually study it. Know-it-alls like Steve Shives won't bother of course. He also explains intelligently what roles the planes played. They could easily have simply been both a diversion, as well as creating a structural weakness sufficient to have the rising pressure from the detonation cause the building collapse. This is not proven, but it is very interesting and demands some attention. I have yet to see any so-called debunker address it. IF that is indeed at least PARTIALLY what happened, then it becomes very easy to refute the whistleblower strawman. Okay. Now that I have systematically and carefully (I could of course have gone into much much greater depth) refuted those popular pwoofer strawmen, let's get to the punchline. Let's get down to the bottom line. Why did this happen, and who was involved, and how was it orchestrated? That is the big question, and I will attempt to provide a hypothesis with the following few posts. This doesn't at all reflect the opinion in the truth movement. It's my own personal hypothesis. When I provide the following information, I know absolutely that it's going to be attacked as "the height of madness and the worst of the conspiracy theories." Probably. But I also know that not a single one of you will be able to provide legitimate doubt to it. The number 1 weapon will be ridicule, rather than reasoned and educated judgment. I will proceed nevertheless. Okay. The 9/11 'inside' job was an inside job by a large, complex and sophisticated network of global leaders. These global leaders are not the ones you think they are. Not the 'official' dancers/fiddlers/clowns/jokers you see in your news outlets. However, that is NOT to say that they didn't KNOW about it (or have SOME knowledge). But they didn't plan it or orchestrate it. Some of these official puppets played their 'roles' in it, but they didn't plan the entire thing. Remember, these individuals have transnational loyalties. They don't give a fuck about you or the country, whose flag you like to wave. These global leaders, are 'rogue' units in almost every major government in the world. What this means is: No, Uncle Bush and his monkeys did not orchestrate 9/11, but they certainly played their parts and had varying degrees of knowledge and responsibility, depending on their 'rank' (their true rank in the true order of things running on this Earth). Almost all of you know that many leaders in the world are members (openly) of secret societies. Guess what? All of them have ranks within them. But even those ranks, which are openly available to the public (e.g. Kerry or Bush being ranked members of Skull and Bones), doesn't come close to painting a full picture. They are still relatively low in rank. There are much higher orders, way above these public jokers, who have far greater power, by virtue of their accepted/voted standing in these secret societies, and almost anybody who's been top ranked Mason, knows it doesn't end at 33. It goes higher. This is all esoteric and largely unknown information, but it can all be easily checked with a simple google search and even good old Wikipedia (heavily controlled and maintained by the powers that be) openly informs you that many of them are members (some high ranking) in these secret societies. Okay, so some of you will say: Who cares? They are all friendly gentlemen's clubs. That doesn't prove anything. They are all happy, innocent, fraternal clubs for elderly men, who seek brotherly unity.. And I say: Sure they do. That's because you're a high ranking member and know exactly what goes on there, right? Because you've actually gone and participated in high ranking rituals, just like you know exactly what's said and done in those Bilderberg and CFR meetings, yes? See, you cannot replace ignorance with knowledge, just because you enjoy your speculative hobbies. Speculating about things which you know nothing. You'd be wiser to be silent and think before you spit out your brain quacks. So, back to these global leaders. Most of them (if not all of them) are completely hidden from public view. I wish to make clear that this goes far beyond Rothschilds and Rockefellers. They too are fiddlers and jesters. Admittedly, they have more power than a Bush or a Cheney, but they still have their smaller parts to play. There are those, who never get mentioned in any media, never are discussed and never appear openly in public. These are the ones who are calling many (not all) of the shots. So then, how does this relate to 9/11? Well, one step at a time. If you know that many of these individuals are high ranking members in occult secret societies, then you will also know that rituals are practiced in them. You probably think the types of rituals that occur are innocent ones, where they take a cup, pour it into another one, stand on one leg, hold their arm across their chest, and drink through a skull shaped mug some occult cocktail... Well, sometimes, yes. Othertimes, these occultists like to conduct their rituals out in the open, and what I mean by this is: ON YOU. Is that so difficult and preposterous to believe? Well let me ask you this: You have a world-wide network of psychopaths (humans, who lack empathy and tend to enjoy killing a multitude of individuals through wars, poverty, drug trade etc all the while rewarding their criminal friends in finance and constricting the ever tightening noose around your collective necks) who practice occult arts. I don't know. But a little, cynical side in me, thinks that this combination might be REAL FUCKING DANGEROUS. Think about that, while you twiddle your thumbs... 9/11 was an occult ritual human sacrifice, practiced by global occult leaders, energizing their plans (at least in their own minds) through ritualistic ceremony, in order to further their agendas to consolidate world power, by instituting an unwinnable and endless war on terror, where every human being is a suspect, a victim and a slave to their agendas. It was one of a series of rituals. The bullshit story you've been fed is: Muslims controlled by Al Qaeda hijacked planes and attacked USA, because they hate your freedoms (at least the freedoms you used to have). They managed to outsmart the world's most advanced technological nation. What I hypothesize: Global, Occultist Leaders ordered their followers to plan and carry out attacks, to consolidate power bases in Middle East and manufacture an unwinnable war on terror and weaken America's people by dismantling their freedoms. If you look at it from a strictly scientific point of view, (Observation, Hypothesis, Experiment, Theory), you can clearly see which one is more plausible. Just sit, observe, compare. The experiment is unfolding before your eyes, and you're a living, breathing victim of that experiment. The problem with my hypothesis is that while it makes more sense, it's a very steep hill to climb. It means, that much of what you were ever CONDITIONED to believe, is wrong. Welcome to the real world.

  • ...I also remember reading in Hollywood Reporter that the whole Boal/Bigelow/Pentagon Hollywood dept. literally started working on a script and pre production like 2 weeks after the whole thing went down. Whatever went down.I'll I gotta say is if this was the most wanted man in the world...and with all our intelligence...and military might...2 wars...busted economy due to this "war on terror"...and after we find him all sickly in a populated city...OBL goes all Rambo on Seal Team 6 and then is dumped in the ocean within 36 hours or whatever. Sounds like Wag The Dog to me.Or Argo for that matter. Plus wasn't Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto assassinated weeks after she claimed (during a CNN interview) that Bin Laden has been dead since 2002/03.

  • ...I do remember on a AICN thread last year that I posted on which had news about Bigelow/Boal OBL mission movie there was some interesting talkbacks going on. Also funny how there was 2 OBL movies.This one and the one that aired on regular cable,was on Netflix instant stream like instananeously (as usually most movies take 6 months to get on Netflix instant) the night before this last election...just a reminder to all of us I guess.

  • ...better call my mom.

  • Dec. 21, 2012, 8:58 a.m. CST

    kenchun24 the whole OBL ending is pretty laughable

    by malificus

    If you substituted OBL for a homework assignment no professor in the world would give you an extension for not turning it in. No body, no pictures, no witnesses, no possible way to verify virtually any of the story and one of the most important stories of the decade. Getting OBL was big, why wouldn't the US parade every aspect of this in front of cameras for their own aggrandizement? They sure had no problem flashing pics of Saddam in front of the world.

  • Dec. 21, 2012, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Torture is really effective at getting people to talk.

    by Baked

    Just...not so effective at getting people to tell you the truth. Especially if they don't actually know anything. And if you really love the sound of unintelligible screaming in gibberish, it can really pass the time. Anyway, Kerry was eerily right. 8,000,000 tons of munitions, 5-6 million displaced, a million plus dead... And all we needed was more police work.

  • Dec. 22, 2012, 7:38 a.m. CST

    And the Edward Bernays Award for Best Propaganda Film goes to...

    by Gary Makin

    ...Zero Dark Thirty!

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