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Harry's Long Promised 2nd STAR WARS THE PHANTOM MENACE Review! One Year Later...
Father Geek here with a report Harry left with me to post tonight while he partied down with the European set. I just want to say what type of son leaves his dutiful father behind while he goes to check out the topless beaches of France? I am just lodging my complaint. Father Geek out.
Hey everyone, Harry here. Not really, probably I’ll
be on a plane about this time flying back to the U.S.
of A. from Mighty Europe and a spy mission.
Hopefully I’ll be able to post the story of my
adventure from the air above the Atlantic, but I don’t
know if that will be possible.
Anyway, if Father Geek followed my wishes this is
going up one year after the opening of STAR WARS
EPISODE ONE.
A year ago I walked into a the Metropolitan Theater
after having camped for a couple of weeks to see a
movie. No, strike that... I was going to see a new
STAR WARS. It’s different from regular movies
because, well... it’s Star Wars and that is a magical
thing for me.
A year ago I promised that in a year, I would write a
piece about STAR WARS: THE PHANTOM
MENACE that wasn’t ‘of the moment’. That was
distanced past the hype and excitement. There would
be other films in my life at this time. Times would be
simpler.
Well it’s time to keep that promise.
A year ago, I walked out of a theater in South Austin
invigorated, thrilled and happy as hell to see a STAR
WARS movie I had never seen before.
I went back about 10 times to see it again and again.
I’ve had numerous conversations with fans, non-fans
and complete strangers.
I’ve heard the I HATED THAT PIECE OF SHIT.
I’ve heard the IT WAS OK BUT IT WASN’T THE
MATRIX. I’ve heard the MAN I CAN’T WAIT
FOR THE NEXT ONE CUZ IT’S GONNA GET
ALL DARK AND STUFF AND THEN IT’S
GONNA RULE AGAIN! and lastly... I’ve heard the
THAT WAS THE BEST MOVIE I HAVE EVER
SEEN talk as well.
I actually just had an experience with a film that
reminded me an awful lot of T.P.M., and it is
DINOSAUR.
You see, DINOSAUR is also an incredibly flawed
film from the adult perspective... and had the adult
perspective been the view that Disney was aiming for,
I might have to really level my gun at them to start
firing... But it’s just so plainly obvious that
DINOSAUR was made for kids... that I can’t honestly
bring myself to rain down on the flick. Because I sat
there... became a little kid and had a blast with it.
And the first 7 or so times I saw PHANTOM
MENACE, I did the kid thing, but I began to become
a grup during that 8th time.
I still really enjoy the film. I still prefer it to
RETURN OF THE JEDI. But I hold the film is about
a century behind A NEW HOPE and a galaxy away
from EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.
Prime problems with the film.
1st the casting of Jake Lloyd is just unfortunate. In a
lot of ways he reminds me of Keanu Reeves in
SPEED. He is just boring. Sure he’s just a kid, but
quite honestly that is not an excuse. Anakin is just
such a middle-class boy.
I mean, think about this. He’s a slave right? But he
has his own robot and pod racer. He gets to hang out
with his mom, befriend strangers that hit town. There
are no bruises or signs of mistreatment. He seems
very well educated in fairly good clothes and solid
footwear. He has his own room, he plays with
friends.
But it’s really sad cause ya see... He’s a slave. Now
mind you, he’s not a slave like the boy that became
CONAN having to push the wheel of pain throughout
time. Hardening both his soul and spirit. In alot of
ways George missed his best bet here.
Yoda says, “I sense much fear in him.” Well... this
might have meant something if we hadn’t seen him be
the bravest little punk you ever did see. I mean, he
talks down Sebulba, he flies his pod like a god, he
chooses to leave his mother to pursue his destiny with
almost complete strangers, he gets in a ship, shoots
down droid ships and blows up the command ship to
save the day. “I sense much fear in him.”
Yeah, right. Now, had Watto put a shock collar on
the kid, and anytime the kid acted punkish, Watto
could press a button to shock the kid. Sending great
pain in his system. If he lived in a hovel with 20
other kids that were all fed some grey soupish looking
thing, and poked or shocked everytime they turned
around. If his Mom was a controlling monster wench
instead of nurturing Martha Stewart type.
Anakin just needed a back story. Something where
we wouldn’t need near god-like powers to sense great
fear in him. Perhaps his visions, images of a man in black
torturing and killing people. Visions of his own
future. His id.... the monster inside of him that will
be released. He’s terrified of it. Seeing visions that
do come true, and hoping others will not.
God, Anakin could have been the greatest Fearful boy
in the world. I mean, imagine if Hitler as a small boy
saw the results of what he became in visions. He’d be
terrified, he’d try to be bigger than that. Try to do
everything to keep from realizing those images in his
mind, but somehow.... someway the cruel hand of fate
would twist him into position. Where soon he
becomes his own worst nightmare.
I didn’t want Anakin to be a cowering chickenshit... I
wanted him to be a kid that had fears and issues, and
was trying to be more than that. Trying to be the
good kid. Trying to impress... but always haunted by
that which he sees when he shuts his eyes.
Has my opinion of Jar Jar changed? Actually...
believe it or not, no. Nope.. not one bit. Jar Jar to me
is the best character in Episode One, and has the
greatest potential for development in the future two
films.
It’s my strong belief that there is going to be some
tragic as hell things in Jar Jar’s future. The types of
things... the weights of tragedy he should never be
forced to deal with. In the opening act of this saga
he’s a fool. And I can accept him as that, he’s a
barely sentient dumb animal. One that will learn what
death and pain is. Inevitably during the wedding
scene of the next film... he’ll say something that will
force a lot of you to roll your eyes and just... shake
your head. But I believe that by the third film, there
will be a great deal of minds changed about this
lovable Gungan.
Recommendations for the future films... Stop having
aliens talk English... have them speak Alien.
I mean, for crissakes... If Watto spoke some odd as
hell made up language, he wouldn’t of been a Jewish
Stereotype. If the Neimodians spoke neimodese...
well then they would not have been Oriental
Stereotypes. And most importantly they would have
been... MORE ALIEN.
Chewbacca never said a single recognizable thing...
we loved him. Jabba, Bib Fortuna, Bossk.... these
aliens spoke alien dialects unfamiliar to us.
In making these Star Wars movies it is absolutely
essential to populate the universe with things that are
not familiar but feel real. Gibberish languages that
have a pentameter of reason.
But I did enjoy the film immensely. I didn’t let these
problems get in the way of the film. I’ll be honest, I
don’t have the movie on tape... I’m waiting for a
DVD. If that means 3 years... then that means 3
years.... I’m just not going to expend money on
inferior product of a superior entertainment.
And that’s the way I see the film a year later. It has
flaws, it isn’t a perfect film. But my what a glorious
misstep. If this is a mistake, imagine what a complete
success painted on the canvas will be. The tools for a
vastly superior painting is in place for George.... all
he has to do is do it.
I can’t wait to see what is next. Personally, I am
currently far more jazzed and hyped about LORD OF
THE RINGS. Having read early scripts and knowing
where these films can go. Knowing that what is
ahead will be treated in the tone absolutely necessary
to the material and made for the audience that is
waiting to embrace it. Well... I just can’t wait. Some
friends of mine were able to hang out with Ian
McKellen while he was in Los Angeles a few weeks
back and they mentioned that I had read an early
draft. Ian apparently told them something along the
lines of, “Oh that? That’s the bad script, it’s far far
better now!”
Wow. Can’t wait.
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+ Expand All
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May 17, 2000 6:04:49 AM CDT
Wow, finally some sense amongst the endless bitching.
by lord summerisle
See that 'toon in the top left? That's Harry purging himself of all his lame reviews and 'mustard' comparisons.
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I don't typically write back very often, but this year later review has caused me some considerable thought. My son is 6 years old now and was already a big Star Wars fan when TPM opened last year. We both shared a love for the first three movies and it has always been a source of...I'm not sure of the right word here, pride? That he and I could share together something that meant so much to me when I was young. Star Wars changed so many things for me and started a lifelong love of great films. I think it will do the same for him as well, it has already started. But we are no longer children are we? We've grown up and despite my constant fear reagrding turning into an adult, life has forced my hand. We have so many adult responsibilities now, a home, car payments, a demanding job, etc...now I understand my own parents feelings when I became a "Star Wars Freak". Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed TPM very much, but in the larger scheme of movie making, it lacks something very primal. It lacked passion and power. It is mostly a flat walk-through of a movie. But here, finally, is my point. My son, my six year old "Star Wars Freak" of a son, absolutley LOVES TPM!! He doesn't see the problems, he doesn't see the racial stereotypes, he doesn't see the missed potential, he doesn't see the holes...he only sees the magic.
When I'm watching the movie with him now (and I bought the CHEAP VHS for him, I'm still waiting for the DVD!) I try to watch the movie through HIS eyes, not my own. Seen through the eyes of the intended audience, this movie succeeds. And that is the magic I was looking for. -
well i personnally had nothing against the ja ja binks after all this is a kids movie to and although he became annoying in parts the kids loved him and as a cgi charactor it looked pretty good. i agree though we needed to see more of young skywalkers background to see the fear in him which your're right it wasn't apparent in the film. the only thing that was appaerent was the fact that they had something implanted in them to stop them leaving but if we saw oneof these "devices" being implemented to a friend of his, then we would sense that fear. we are all assuming something bad will happen to his mother which the jedi's will ignore as a non priority which will force him to the bad side and then we can see a better movie. oh and yes i'd like to see a few subtitles with an alien languge spoken like jabba or greedo as it does set the tne to the fact that there are thousands of inhabited worlds out there.
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Okay, I enjoyed the film, but with the expectations that were riding on this movie it's amazing that we have any positive reaction towards it at all. I mean this was one film that for some reason we all felt that we could pass judgement on, it was as if
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TPM was an ok movie with some great parts and a lot of wasted potential. Jar Jar, however, still, and always will, suck to the farthest regions of the universe.
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Harry writes:
"But my what a glorious misstep. If this is a mistake, imagine what a complete success painted on the canvas will be. The tools for a vastly superior painting is in place for George.... all he has to do is do it."
The tools were in place prior to TPM. Still Lucas fucked up the painting. He will do it again. And again.
Imagine the stupidity it takes to have all the money, the time and all the artistic talent, and still make a film that is mediocre at best.
Prove me wrong Lucas. I dare you. I double-dare you motherfucker. -
Harry, I think maybe you're trying to score some Jedi points with Lucas on this one. In retrospect, this film hurting very badly except for the 12 and under. They are the fortunate ones. The rest of us got embarraced with hopes dashed. I don't see any new hope.
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In addition, I've still never been happy that Anakin wasn't cast a few years older. I think it would've solved a number of problems. A thirteen-year-old, for instance, can just convey a wider range of emotions (a better hint of the dark side, I would hope), not to mention being more credible as a pilot. ******** I've almost never posted in Star Wars Talkbacks due to their length and extreme polarization, but let me throw in my two cents on "Phantom Menace's" place in the pantheon of Star Wars. For me, it's just not there at all. I'm not going to whine about Lucas destroying my childhood, but in this viewer's opinion, he dropped the ball so badly that what came out just didn't jibe with previous movies - too much myth, mysticism, and menace lost, to put it concisely. Mentally, I'm wiping "Phantom Menace" from canon, leaving the original trilogy untouched as one of the all-time great adventure series. I've always held that only the Star Wars stuff Lucas crafted was "official", but he just lost me here. "Phantom Menace" shared some of the flaws and kiddie-ness of "Jedi", but basically lacked *all* the cool stuff that made "Jedi" work for me. We could go into a million comparative details, but basically, that's what it comes down to. All the goofiness, none of the cool. No argument will ever convince me that "Phantom Menace" wasn't far more kiddie overall (in a bad way) than all the original trilogy stuff, so I don't buy that defense, and I think I represent many former fans in that respect. That's all - no vitriol or spite from me towards Lucas. I'm just not interested in Episode 2 or 3 anymore, because I won't consider them a part of the Star Wars series I knew and loved.
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Good point on Anakin Harry... and good overall point Bward... that has been said before but I think the main problem with TPM is that it came 16 years after RETURN... and in 16 years many of us fans grow up, and see many different things on the silver screen... if TPM had been a masterpiece, it would have been so different from the first trilogy... I think Lucas was in a no-win situation... now that doesn't mean I forgive him, I still believe he made huge mistakes... the English speaking aliens is one, Jar-Jar is another one (soory Harry, I don't think this character has anything worth being developed unless Lucas changes him totally)... for me one of the main mistake was to make a kind of political movie : Naboo is like some 3rd world small country invaded by some obscure army, and no one really cares... did Lucas watch too much the news the last 16 years ? Did he feel forced to draw a parallel between our world and his SW's world ??... still this doesn't mean I don't enjoy TPM, it has great SW sequences, and I am looking forward to get more of Obi-Wan, less of Jar-Jar and REAL Jedi's stuffs...
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Yep, Harry's right. The way to look at this movie is through 13-year old eyes. And yes : a long way away from the greatness of ANH and TESB ; but SOOO much better than RoTJ. And yes, through 13-year old-tinted glasses (keep mine in my back pocket), Jar Jar's great. But no : Jake Lloyd isn't so miscasted ; he only fucks up one line of Lucas' limp dialogue. Unfortunately that line becomes the biggest problem in Episode One's galaxy ... Cringe City
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I agree with almost everyword Harry said. EXPOSITION was terrible in the movie. If you went into it having read the novel, or ANY of the extensive set up material, then you "got it", if not, then it was mediocre storytelling with phenomenal visuals. I loved the movie. I did get it the first time, but a lot of people did not. I whole heartedly disagree with the stereotyping of the aliens as racism crap. I think it's a bunch of politcaly correct bull shiite. No one INTENTIONALLY made fun of ethnic groups, except maybe ALIEN ethnic groups.
www.sonnyboo.com -
You made good points. The only thing I disagree with is Jar Jar, of course. He was truly awful. Anakin's life was certainly not tragic enough. It would have been much powerful if he had actually suffered to get where he was. As far as I could tell, slavery on Tatooine is similar to summer camp.
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May 17, 2000 7:15:26 AM CDT
i might change my opinion of Jar Jar if he voluntarily stuck hid
by jon l. ander
not really. I might feel sorry for him if he really suffered, but no half measures! I just don't think he's funny enough, and i don't think that much of the Animation either. Just look how dodgy it looks in the final battle where rolls in the grass and you might see what I mean. They should have stuck with guys in suits. Also, say what you like about the Ewoks, ROTJ has some great scenes in it. All of the death star battle, and Luke and Vaders final duel are fantastic scenes, and beat almost anything in TPM.
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I can appreciate Harry's follow-up review and everyone else's contributions, measuring how this movie didn't measure up to the original trilogy and that we are supposed to view it with a kid's eyes. It is a flawed argument. Two points that make this film very hard for me not to fast-forward through to the amazing technical set-pieces.
One: It has no heart. Whatsoever. No lynchpin for any of us to grasp onto or character to identify with as we could with a wistful Luke Skywalker contemplating his future while gazing at the twin sunset on Tatooine unaware of the threat he will be facing or difference his choices will make because of his faith and skill, not dumb luck (LOVE the way George lowers himself and "borrows" the ending of ID4, an inferior film especially when his disdain for Devlin and Emmerich seems to have been circulating since it was originally released). Which is heartbreaking, because it would not have taken much effort to instill, especially in upping Anakin's age to exhibit exactly the conflicts and emotions Harry suggested.
Second: Kid AND adult audiences were BOTH able to enjoy the textures in the original trilogy that did not depend on fart jokes, a plodding and incoherent plotline, or dumbing down to entertain just the kiddies. This nonsense and excuse that the movie seems weak because it is for kids is horsehit. The original trilogy appealed to kids, teenagers AND adults because of the strength it relied on in sculpting a strong story based on the universal myths that inspired so much of it.
I don't have a whole lot of faith in Episode 2 or 3, and pray that I am happily surprised when they come out. Personally I feel the series went downhill when Kurtz resigned before Jedi... there is no one to firmly tell Lucas what may not be working (uh EWOKS? JAR JAR? rich characters being reduced to caricatures i.e. Han in "Jedi"?) All I see are a bunch of company yes men like Rick McCallum (George is GREAT, Everything is moving forward WONDERFULLY... ad naseum).
Beware the power of THE HYPE, or CONSUME YOU it will... -
That's right! What about the mothefuckin' Greedo Midget. I want this shit adressed. The points
Harry makes are things that could have made TPM a good (great in our dreams) film. If Ep 2 deals with half the drama harry concieves of it will be passable. Kids, kids, kids -- people keep saying lighten up buddy this one was for the kids. Well how come if Toy Story 1 and two where for kids I liked 'em a million times better than TPM... I'll tell ya why... the same reason I didn't like Hook or back when I actually was a kid Mac And Me or say Hypersapien, cause they are bad bad bad movies that insult my intelligence. Anyway... the fucking Greedo midget.... does any trult great film have a lame midget in a halloween mask doing cartweels? You be the judge. -
Every gripe he had on TPM was right on the money. I'm in total agreement...part of the problem is I can't put myself in the same mindset of that 6, 9, and 12 year old kid who loved the first trilogy. If I were 6 again, would I have loved TPM? Probably. But at 29 it just didn't quite cut it. But whose fault is it? Lucas, for not changing the way he's made movies, or ours for growing up?
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May 17, 2000 7:21:42 AM CDT
Wow, a sorta negative review that actually isn't total bull---t!
by rjtapper
TPM had some flaws, but damn if it didn't overcome them all. People are just too fuckin bitchy around here. That movie lived up to MY hype anyway.Twig out...
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Look, you gotta trust Lucas. Yeah, there a few things in TPM that are bug me (metachlorines...what ?), but I firmly believe that in 5 years time, when you come out of the theatre after seeing Episode 3...everything will become clear.
It is the first film in a trilogy...yes, he had to put enough things in to make the film stand alone, but there are so many things that will be explained, once all the films are complete. Doesnt matter what anyone says...they are HIS films and he's the most qualified person to make them. This film is fine out of context, but when you sit back in 5 years time, and watch all six films back2back...only then will everything make sense. -
The 16th through 19th (and in some cases, 20th) centuries were subject to forms of slavery that were brutal, violent, degrading beyond measure, absolutely horrible and something never to be repeated. But it was not always thus. The Roman republic and empire had vast slave classes, and a great number of the service-oriented slaves (of the kind Anakin was) were treated relatively well, had houses, had families, had money and did not get beat up every other hour. In fact, many slaves were so wealthy and well-off that when they were manumitted (freed) they had more power than their former masters, more power than those of his or her social circle and a significant set of ties to the political or economic machine. In short, while slaves were still not free and not always treated with kindness or respect, slavery of the Roman period was NOT chattel slavery as it was in the U.S. Lucas did not get slavery "wrong," he just got it "different" and more akin to the imperial slave system of Rome. Which, in a way, makes a whole hell of a lot more sense.
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JarJar will die... think about it... all characters in Episode 1 who aren't in A New Hope must have died at a certain time... and it would be kinda weird if Lucas would end Episode 3 with JarJar still alive, leaving us with the question whatever happend with him...
So I guess all you people will be very satisfied when this happens, right :) -
Lay off Jar-jar...whats wrong with him...seriously ? Yeah, so he shoots a few droids and blows up a few tanks by mistake..who's to say he isnt using the force..eh? EH ?...
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My take on Anakin is that he should have been older. I think Lucas copped out by making him a kid. Apparently he felt it would give the film more emotional punch to have a nine-year-old leaving his mother. Personally, I think that's taking the easy way out. Look at "Superman". Clark Kent is eighteen when he leaves and heads north. His goodbye to his mother in the cornfield packs a wallop, because a) Smallville is the only home he's ever known, and b) we know where the character is headed and who he'll become. Now, place those same emotions in TPM with a 15-year-old Anakin and you would have had a better film. This also applies to the space battle at the end. I would have rather he saw that the battle was being lost and flown in to help instead of that cheesy "auto-pilot" bit. Having him do that would have given us the hints of defiance and recklessness that would sow the seeds of Vader. Plus we wouldn't have had to suffer through lame-o scenes of Anakin flying the ship all wacky while saying "WHOAAAAA!!" in an exaggerated fashion. And as for the death of Jar-Jar, I have a pet theory on that one. When things go bad in EP III, Obi-Wan is entrusted with Luke and heads of to Tatooine, while Leia is whisked off to Alderaan under the care of...Jar-Jar Binks. This means that Grand Moff Tarkin is actually the hero of the series, since it is he who gives the order to blast Jar-Jar into dust.
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This is a true story. I woke up bleary-eyed and stumbling at 3:30 AM from bizarre dreams to find my living room window standing wide open, the curtains billowing. Hmm, I thought. That's odd. Could have sworn I closed it ... Then I heard the shriek coming from the spare bedroom. I grabbed my trusty baseball bat and crept in there ever so slowly. As the door swung open, my eyes went wide in horror as I saw George Lucas trying to insert his penis into Hermie, my ferret. He was obviously drunk on cheap liquor, as he was weaving and stumbling around the room. Hermie was struggling and trying to bite his nuts, but to no avail. Even in his drunken state, Lucas rules with an iron fist, so to speak. My brain screamed at me to run in there and pop George a good one upside the head, but my feet wouldn't budge. I stood there slack-jawed as George dropped the wine bottle and proceeded to lube up his chubby elf-shaped penis from a jar of Vaseline he had open beside him. To my shock and horror, George began to sing "God only knows what I'd be without you," by the Beach Boys, as he violated the heretofore pristine anus of my best little furry pal. I couldn't speak. I couldn't move. I could only stand there frozen as George Lucas raped my ferret. It seemed to go on forever, but finally, George finished. He disengaged from Hermie, kissed him gently on the forehead, and put him softly back in his cage. Then he turned to me and our eyes met. We stood like that for a long time, and the look in his eyes ... I will never forget the look in those horrible eyes. After a while, George pulled up his pants, gathered up his Vaseline, and brushed past me. I followed him through the house and watched as he jumped out the window through which he had come and scampered across the lawn. I've been drinking a lot since then, and eating Valium and Xanax like candy, but I nothing I do can get that horrifying image out of my head. I still can't believe it happened. Hermie won't even look at me anymore. I feel so cheap and used. And I can't believe ... I didn't even ask him about the DVD
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It's so sad that Harry still has hopes for this prequel trilogy. JarJar will never experience tragedy. He will never have that one moment anyone but Lucas could envision when he stops moving around for just one millisecond, (cue Wiliams' score) he stares into our eyes and visibly realizes his place in the universe. Just think of the impact if this character decided to take up arms and make a difference after an epiphany (loss of a loved one, avenge his people, reversing a life of carefree mediocrity...doesn't matter the motivation). But we all know it'll never happen. He's just going to keep stepping in doodoo for yuks and accidentally saving the day a la Hong Kong Phooey and Inspector Gadget. Of course, Phooey was a much better character. I totally avoided spoilers and stood in line the first day for Episode One. I'll have no such reverence for the remaining installments.
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okay sure it wasn't the best movie of the year and it wouldn't even be in the top ten but it was a fun movie. Lucas made it to be a fun movie and that's how it turned out. I went in expecting this, got that oh so familiar tingle down my spine as the theme music began and dug what i saw. Story over. Now having said that there is one aspect of the..menace that gives me grief. The cgi. Fair enough for cgi this was all brilliant and so forth but it was still shiny computer graphics. The one advantage the original's have over this is there primitive technologies. The characters and ships and effects in the first three all had the tangibility required to make the star wars world REAL. Chewbacca beats jar jar hands down because you could practically feel the great furry lug. Now cgi of this quality may be fine in any other movie because most other movies aren't iconic like star wars.
When it's star wars it sort of requires that extra step of reality and tangibility. Listen up lucas stick with the models and costumes and rubber make up buddy, when your on a good thing stick to it. oh and one more thing did any one notice any similarity between tpm and the book dinotopia, particularly in the closing scene's.
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For the past year I've heard nothing other then you "hated it", "it sucked Donkey ass" etc...etc.
But every point you make is EXACTLY the way I feel about the film. Anakin should have been "haunted" more. His life should not have been so easy. It wasn't enough that if he leaves Tatooine his ass get's blown up...it needed more. As for Jar Jar...all the hype on hating him made me like him more. I went into the theater expecting to full-on hate him...I didn't. I also agree with the Alien language thing..Lucas never really had Aliens speaking english before, why he started now, is beyond me.
As for what is coming...I truly believe Lucas got the kids flick out of the way and KNOWS Ep2 and 3 cannot be all bright a cheery...serious shit has to happen. I do believe Lucas will make up for TPM flaws with Ep2 and whatever mistakes are made in Ep2, will be fixed in Ep3.
One last thing, I'm also siked for LOTR's, but honestly, we're talking about Star Wars here! If I had a choice of any film to see...it would be Ep2. I do enjoy the idea that the LOTR trilogy will be Christmas releases...at least we know where our SW trailer will be in 2001! -
Lucas had ALOT to live up to with this film and honestly, he didn't live up to the hype...BUT he had no intention of doing so. Think about this, ANH was made under the assumption that it would be the only SW film made, EVER. Lucas had no idea that it would be as huge as it was...hench why Lucas was able to obtain the rights and get all the cash from merchandise. Lucas himself said that this film was geared towards 13 year olds, had also said that the series will get darker and darker and more will be at stake.
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Anakin couldn't have been older as his training takes years in order for him to become a jedi and he was pretty late to get recognised as it was.
I really hate Jar Jar if only for the fact he seems like an after thought for the kids, rather than complimenting the film.
Bring back men in costumes.
bring back mashed up languages.
cut down on CG.
Really like the explanation for the force, based in science and draws a wonderful parrallel with the uneducated turning to religion when they don't fully understand the workings of science and biology, I think this is expressed after the clone wars when jedi texts are lost and the whole environment goes retro. i.e. No robots instead storm troopers and no chrome ships we get mashed up x-wings and other cool retro technologies.
Still liked phantom menace and I think as a setup for what follows it succeeds perfectly.
p.s. I just know george is gonna pull some huge twist out of left field, anakin not being vader, something to do with the clone wars or something. It can't be as clear cut as it looks. I guess we'll soon see. -
Harry,I'm with ya!!I STILL love TPM-I had such fun losing myself for 2hrs,I have to laugh at people that treat TPM like a movie to 'read' into! I too wish Anakin was shown having to wrestle with his visions of the future.In 'Rogue Planet'- by Greg Bear- Anakin DOES see his future self-but he doesn't realize who it is;he also has a problem controlling the force when he gets angry;he begs himself not to let it get out of hand.It's a shame Lucas chose not to show this;I feel Jake Lloyd would have pulled it off beautifully!In a few shots you can see the evil within!Hey, I have two kids,and there is nothing more evil than a 9 year old!I saw TPM over 35 times,and it was worth it to see people leave the theater smiling! Parents and their children talking to each other -enjoying the discussion!Sometimes a movie is just a two hour vacation from life-The Phantom Menace was that! Thank You Mr.Lucas!
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Luke was well into his twenties when he started his Jedi training.
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I think the problem with many of the critiques of The Phantom Menace, both at the time of its release and now, is that of people completely missing the point. Ultimately, these were films that I enjoyed when I was five years old, so the new one was naturally going to play to a new generation of young children. I think trying to play to the adult fans who are fuelled by the Terminator-esque novels and want it to be something its not, would have been fatal and garnered less respect from its target audience.
The whole idea of Anakin being almost completely innocent in this first film is that his fall will be all the greater over these next two episodes. To have had him beating people up and having dreams of future tortures would have taken away much of the intrigue of these coming episodes. And how can y'all say that you're not looking forward to the next two with all the stones left unturned by the end of episode I. How will Anakin fall? Will Obi-Wan turn to the dark side as is hinted by his anger-fuelled attack on Darth Maul? Will there be the much-hinted love triangle? (supported by the aid of Jonathan Hales who wrote a similar tale in the Young Indy chronicle "Tales of Innocence")Now Palpatine is chancellor - how will his inevitable hold over the universe take place.
These are all classic themes influenced by 1930s serials which is what Star Wars effectively is, so if you want gore go and watch the Matrix.
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I just know when i walk out of the cinema after watching LOTR#1, that i didnt just watch a
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[1] ANAKIN. I thought the casting was okay
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At no time during TPM did I feel like I was watching a movie which gave a dang about anyone over 12. The first 3 SW films had gravity. TESB was as bleak a sci-fi film as my little eyes had ever beheld. I was worried for everyone, for God's sake. TPM? Anakin was much too young (or Lloyd, too lame an actor) to make me think anything worried him. His expression during the scene which would be the last time he ever saw his mother was like he'd been told he couldn't go to Chuck E. Cheese's. Until I feel like there are genuine emotions being worked with, the next two SW films will simply be so much gorgeous eye candy and nothing more. Peace.
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Are the Star Wars movie's just supposed to be about having a good time? I sadly think so after watching The Phantom Menace. What a piece of shit. There was no sense of the kind of pathos that the original myths Lucas referenced via Joseph Campbell possess. This series is only going to get worse. I think George Lucas should just set up a race car track and sell tickets since he's so into the need for speed, not soul. whoever raised the issue of Anakin's lack of fear in TPM was so right on. Anger over childhood abuse is the perfect thing to undue this tragic figure. But instead, he was like a hyped up brat. not jake lloyd's fault at all. lucas is to blame. and i'm sorry, but natalie portman has lost something over the years. Namely personality.
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...Ever read about George telling Kurtz and Kirshner they were ruining Empire, then going off in a hissy fit to re-edit the 'slow paced' scenes with Han and Leia in the Falcon? Notice that after that fantastic film, we got Chewie doing Tarzan calls, and burps, and Roger Roger and poop step-ins and farts? George's 'vision' has become something something greater because of the talented people working for him. See the Art Of books, and look at the talent that went into some of those original ideas. Some of which were George's. It's obvious that George knows how to make a blockbuster, but doesn't know how to make a good Star Wars anymore. With Yes Men like McCallum, don't expect the situation to improve. There are bound to be great scenes. How could there not be with all of the talented people working on the film? This film was for kids? Maybe. But even as a kid I knew that Jedi was the worst of the bunch, and I would have recognized a stinker in this one, too. I took my 6yr old niece to see TPM, who kept asking 'Where's Darth Maul?' I had to tell her not to worry, that the Good Part was coming up.
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Well, the point that many (including myself) would make is that the original trilogy films were ALL-AGES films, not wholly children's movies. When you consider the violence of "Star Wars" (Vader crushing a guy's windpipe, the death of Unlce Owen and Aunt Beru, the destruction of Alderan, etc.), it's hard to say it was *exclusively* a kids' movie. Nitestar expressed this very well in his post, and I still haven't been convinced otherwise. Among the original trilogy, only "Jedi" really strayed very far into children's territory, but that was balanced by the seriousness of Luke's final confrontation with Vader and the mega space battle. I wasn't looking for an adult film along the lines of "The Terminator" in "Phantom Menace", just another good all-ages adventure. What I got was entirely too kiddie in nature (with the bizarre exception of the trade dispute stuff - I found that boring even as an adult). You're also exaggerating too much in suggesting we wanted to see Anakin as a severely tortured youth. "Troubled" might be a better word. At least "hot-headed". Point is, he would've been far more interesting had we been given more hints as to the personality that would one day overtake him. Total innocence might contrast most starkly with his fall in the follow-up movies, but it did NOT make him an interesting character, and I think that's a more important point.
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Jar Jar reeks with major suckage.
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kudos to Harry -- leave it to the big guy to articulate what I think a lot of us were feeling 10 MINUTES after the movie vs. 1 year later...thanks!
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I'm afraid you are right about the reappearance of JarJar. Lucas names his characters in a rather corny, transparent way. Gungan = Gunga Din. My prediction is that the Frog Boy will meet a nasty fate sacrificing himself for the regiment.
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Here's some of the problems I felt this film had. Firstly it lacked the scale of the other three... where were the huge war ships? the planet destroying space stations? I know that empire's scale was less than the others, but that made up for it by having shed loads of brilliant foreshadowing and character developement. The one thing that Lucas totally nailed, imho in TPM was the set up. He sets up the sequel brilliantly... My main problem with phantom menace is that there wasn't much star wars in it, or at least, what I knew as star wars. A big war between two races we'd never met... He didn't do enough to get me to care about those races to get me emotionally involved. Jar Jar didn't bother me much, I actually liked him a little, at least he made me laugh, at least he got a response out of me... There just wasn't enough star wars events... there was no death of obi wan, no I am your father, no there is another... and if lucas DOES pull some nonsense about Vader not being Anakin then I'll slap him, because it underwrites the trilogy we know and love. Just a few thoughts... but I really am looking forward to the next one.
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May 17, 2000 9:29:05 AM CDT
1st of all, i want to give Nat Portman a 'pearl necklace'
by ham sammich
secondly, i would like to state that the actor who plays Anakin in Ep2 has been announced. HADEN CHRISTIANSEN. furthermore i would like to state that AICN had no clue, and their spies are all but worthless.
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HARRY ,you summed it up best in your last paragraph.
"Personally, I am currently far more jazzed and hyped about LORD OF THE RINGS." -
Ewok's are good. How can anyone not grin stupidly at their attack on the Endor Back-door (ahem). I like Jedi, and I respect it even more ever since TPM. Vader's funeral pyre has more poignancy, Luke quest more meaning. TPM's main problem is its (even for Lucas) dialogue. Laurence Olivier would have problems not appearing wooden with "Whooppee!". Apart from that I love TPM: from the sheer unstoppableness of the Jedi's counterattack to...I love the film OK? And whilst I'm here, have some manners, If you're gonna just swear and abuse Lucas 'cause of percieved slights then do it with wit and style a la the ferret raping guy, because otherwise you just look (or read?) like an ill-bred moron). I'm off for a pint, cheers.
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While I generally liked the movie,
It seemed to lack ANH's heart and
sprituality. The Trade Federation is defeated due to sheer bad luck not through a belief in "the force." While it's possible the Force was guiding little Anakin's hands when he destroyed the Control ship, it would've helped for them to cue John William's "the force" theme.
Also there needed to be more interaction between Obi Wan and Anakin. Perhaps Lucas could've had Qui Gon saddle his young Padawan with watching over the boy, like when you're parents make you bring
along your little brother!That would've been funny!It could've recaptured the relationship Luke and Han had in ANH. And although I really liked Qui Gon I think Obi Wan should've had alot more screen time.
My main beef was with Lucas' lack of consistency. First, Gungans have the incredible technology to create shield generators and submarines that can withstand the pressure of passing through the planet's core, but then go into battle carrying spears and riding
animal drawn wagons!?!
Secondly,if a shield generator can be built that can fit easily onto the back of a couple dinosaurs why is it that 40 years later the Rebels have to use such a large, immobile one on Hoth to
produce the same effect?
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Damn some of you guys are fun. Yes, you have been robbed of your life because Lucas destroyed the Star Wars universe with TPM. Bring the Prozac.
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Harry's comments about the relatively easy life Annakin had were right on the money. What bothered me was an equally obvious flaw in the plot: these two Jedi Knights, agents of the Galactic Chancellor, arrive on a world where the Republic's own anti-slavery laws are blatantly ignored and flouted. Yet, they intentionally leave Annakin's mom behind, to remain a slave. A true Guardian of Peace & Justice would have managed to spirit her away with them when they left Tatooine.
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Dig it, there's nothing wrong with liking the "Phantom Menace". But...please...don't go with the easy stereotyping of "Phantom Menace" critics as bitter comic book guys, movie-haters, etc. There've been a lot of well-worded criticisms here so far (and praise too) - it's only when we start with the name-calling and unsupported personal accusations that these Talkbacks degenerate and everyone starts hating each other. Here's the trick: ignore the posts that just say "Jar Jar sux" or "George Lucas raped my childhood". In turn, I'll ignore the posts that vilify even well-intentioned criticisms. If we both do that, then we can have some intelligent back-and-forthings here, and not the usual hate-fest of Star Wars Talkbacks. Let me sum it up - to you, the good elements of "Phantom Menace" outweighed the bad. To me, the bad far outweighed the good. It's okay. We can have strongly differing opinions and we don't have to kill each other because of them. Just remember - ignore the assholes. *sigh* I think I make this plea everytime I get into a Talkback...
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This is my first "talkback" installment and I would just like to thank Harry for his reasonable "review" of Episode I.
Harry, you reviewed it for what it was--A MOVIE--and a damn entertaining one at that.
There are a few things that I agree with from some the others as well. First off on Jar-Jar: I'm afraid the guy is gonna meet an unfortunately tragic demise. I have felt this since the very beginning. He is just one of those characters kind of like the partner in a cop movie. He'll undoubtably "take one" for the good of the home team, I feel and it will be a tragic moment. Besides, what would be a better way for ol' George to make all the naysayers feel sorrow down deep inside of them that they don't want to face or admit...and they won't. They're too weak.
As for the feeling I got when I left TPM, it was less than excited. I let the hype send my expectations through the roof. Plus, to make things worse, the sound at my theater really sucked and I couldn't understand a word. So I made myself cool down and took a week before I went back to see it. This time I kept my expectations where they should have been in the first place and really enjoyed it...I mean, give me a break--it's a movie no matter how long you wait for it.
Well, I've gone long here, but in closing I would like to address a comment made by "gsolo" or something like that, complaining about the kids being the only ones who could enjoy Episode I. Hey man, I was seven years old when Star Wars came out...how old were you? MTFBWY! -
The ONLY way the Jar Jar character can be redeemed is if he becomes a kick-ass jedi knight. He must surrender the 'so-called comedy relief crown' and get serious. George are you reading this?
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I thought Maul kicked ass. Yes, he could have had som dialogue, but the light sabre fight between him and Obi-Wan is just great. One of the better fight scenes I've seen. Other than that I tink that Harry is right on the spot with his comments on the film's flaws, and I too enjoy it in a childish "I remember when I was 11"-kind of way.
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I loved TPM. I like Jar-Jar. I think the biggest, fattest joke in the world would be the first shot of Episode II...The big smiling face of Jar-Jar, followed by Boba Fett's helmet being slowly slipped onto him. After all the fanboys slit their own wrists, the rest of us can enjoy the film. I really don't care what anyone else thinks. I liked it, if you didn't, God bless you, quit bitching and move on.
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This is precisely the mindless drivel that is for the weak. I urge all of you that are refuse to concede to this substandard review on this ephemeral site to flame Mr. Knowles and his minions.
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May 17, 2000 10:12:05 AM CDT
Lucas No Longer Takes the Storytelling Potential of the Star War
by olafs
Just as the Star Trek movies slumped into self-parody (compare Wrath of Kahn to Voyage Home) and the Indiana Jones franchise went from exciting to silly, so goes Star Wars. It's too easy for Lucas to go for the quick laugh or the "wouldn't it be neat?" action scene. (It was that two-headed NASCAR announcer that really ruined it for me. Compare it to the characters in the cantina at Mos Eisley. Sheesh!)
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I hate to say it, but Mr Lucas is proabaly busy at the moment, but one of his minions might pass it along, thanks.
OK, two more flaws - too much CGI
Rick Maccallum - the guy earlier who pointed out his annoyingly hyperbolic gushing optimism. Has anyone any evidence that he's not just a YES man?
And I completely agree on Jar Jar's Heroic journey. It does seem to be the flip side to Luke's. To say that Lucas has left his mythic (Campbellian) structures is plain wrong - Jar Jar, Anakin, Obi Wan - they'll all recieve fates more akin to Greek Tragedy. The thinking behind the writing is there - its just the lapses in execution. Sorry to harp on. -
Here's my theory: by the end of the prequels Jar Jar will have become an entirely different character. He will live through the CLONE WARS, he will see his planet destroyed or ravaged, he will see Anakin turn to the Dark Side. So waht shall Jar Jar do when faced with all this? Simple, he'll pick up some dicarded body armour from the clone wars and become Boba Fett. It's True. It's True. It'll be George's big fat fuck finger raised to all those whiny bitches who ragged on Jar Jar and jizzed over Boba (myself included).
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Harry, I wish I had your faith that Lucas will paint something worthwhile for the second installment. Unfortunately his last two efforts have been god-awful. Message to Lucas- Stop writing movies to sell crap! What a wasted opportunity-
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while i was intrigued by harry's alternative scenarios for how viewers could see that anakin had "much fear in him", i was also impressed by the dramatic difference between the way anakin reacted to his situation when he was not doing something controlled by midichlorians. for example, when the outlanders arrive in watto's shop, anakin is astounded (well, he didn't ACT astounded, but that's what the dialogue implied) by padime. when he has his first real chance to reflect on the pod race and his new life, he cowers, shivering, in the cargo bay of the ship. and before he shows the jedi council his stuff, he seeks padime out for some (any) last minute comfort. when the force is not controlling his actions, he's clearly a very little boy. the contrast between the pod racer-anakin and the shivering child in the star ship was stark, i thought. it suggested to me that one of the scariest things for anakin may just be how strong he is when the force is "with him", and how weak he is the rest of the time. that is fodder for serious internal conflict and fear! what if the force fails him next time! he has no sense of how the midichlorians are affecting him, and i predict this will be at least one source of great fear and pain when he gets older.
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Hey all. Let me first emphasize that I agree with most of you regarding Anakin's role in TPM. It was shallow and one dimensional. That said, someone wrote about how the blame is squarely on Lucas and not on Jake cause the script was weak. I pretty much agree with that. Not that I think Jake has even the most basic acting skills, but he gave the performance that Lucas wanted, and that was to give the audience this sweet, innocent, and clueless momma's boy. Yes, it would have been very cool to have the kid waking up in a cold sweat with visions of pain and suffering, or, even better, to have him be inexplicably drawn to and fascinated by Darth Maul when they see each other on Tatooine, e.g having them lock eyes, with Anakin hesitating if only for a second to run back to the ship. Lucas really dropped the ball with the Tatooine duel scene in that it was definitely wrong for him to leave Anakin out it. He should have witnessed the whole thing; it should have been a metaphor for the future battle that will rage within him.
Lucas wants the audience to look at Anakin and always wonder how the fuck this cute little kid will eventually be evil incarnate and be capable of unspeakable horrors i.e. genocide. In other words, he wants us all (well most of us) to identify with Anakin, because he's ultimately saying that Anakin was an ordinary kid (aside from the fact he's a slave) full of potential who somehow went wrong. And he's saying that every one of us is really that kid and we're all capable of slipping off the deep end like he will. We all know the prequels is the story of why he slips. So in order to get to that point, Lucas first has to introduce us to this boring little kid.
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A home-made poster seen at Mars Con in Minneapolis last weekend: "The [Psi-]Corps is mother. The Corps is Father" followed by a photo of Jar-Jar with a Pci-cop badge on his black tunic, followed by the words "Explains a lot, doesn't it?"
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beware, SW fans! they are considering two fighting techniques for oz's muppet: 1) to further the comic relief, they'll have yoda running between clone's legs and whacking their ass from behind, much in the same way the 3 Ninjas bested their foes. 2) he'll levitate as he battles, so he can be at eye level with the opposition. since a creature of his size would consider a 3-foot lightsaber unwieldly, he will probably control it via telekinesis [if he uses a lightsaber, at all. lightsabers aren't the force. obi wan found is in a cracker-jack box. it means nothing]. they will employ one of these methods, or neither. we won't see a combination of the two. which do you think lucas will select? i could tell you, if you're willing to part with... YOUR SOUL!
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Great piece. Although the Anakin acting and presentation of the character was improperly done, I don't think it was the major problem. The Neimoidians were that. A totally unnecessary element. Darth Maul could have easily been used in their place, and deeper drama ensues. I think most people would agree that evil, I mean Vaderish evil, never really showed us its fangs. We were given the Neimoidian cowardice, the "pit-bull" violence of Maul, and the holographic image of Sidious that doesn't really strike fear into an audience that really felt it in the OPENING SCENE of ANH: "Commander! Tear this ship apart..." or "The Force is with you, young Skywalker... But you are not a Jedi yet..." That sort of banter just left me hanging. There was never really a moment where I felt that the good guys were in trouble. And now, the scariest and best part of the movie is dead, buried at the bottom of a bottomless pit, cut in half. Ep. 2 will be better. Of that I have no doubt. But it's great to read your comments, Harry. They put a smooth perspective on a sore subject. Perhaps we can stop bickering about a movie that's done, over, complete, and turn to bashing recent craptastic stuff: Battlecrap Poop! Later, dudes.
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Jar Jar is still a waste of pixels that does nothing but enforce more marketing oppurtunities for the man at the ranch. If Jar Jar was more like Captain Tarpalas, a more ballsy Gungan, then Episode 1 would have been truer to the formula. The Formula now seems to be GET MONEY BY ANY MEANS NECCESARY. How bad ass would it have been to have a rouge Gungan that was a good fighter and learned lessons of compassion, instead of a Gungan that talks endless crap and ruins a fairly decent story. Harry I hope your wrong on Jar Jar being around for the next 2 cause that will truely suck.
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I was excited as hell to see episode 1, like everyone else.
And like 90 percent of the people who watched it I thought it was a mess.
- Jar Jar was like a baby crying throughout the entire film.
- The script was unbelievably thin.
- The senate was drab and boring.
etc, etc
George Lucas makes a film once every blue moon, he's not a practicing film maker, his movies are considered 'events', no film makers watched Episode 1 and said "Wow George, you got the touch".
Saddens me, he should have taken stuff out of the movie, made it a bit more serious, every CGI character was thrown in for comic relief.
Childrens movie or not, the vast, vast majority of Star Wars fans are adults and E1 nixed our expectations and gave us another Pocahontas.
and pez dispeners and shampoo and razors and dolls and mousepads and car alarms etc infinity....
But of course I cant wait for the next one.
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First off I would like to say that this movie was fun. That's about it. There were numerous plot lines or conflicts that were only there to give the movie some movement and excitement. The best (and worst) example of this was the underwater scene. How many fish had to eat the other one?? Ooooo... scary. They might not make it... GASP!! That was lame. The movie had numerous problems. Most of them can be overlooked and we can hope there will be less of them in the next installments. The one problem that is just not exceptable is the acting. It was horrible. Straight across the board. From Jake Lloyd's sad and "give me pity" face when saying bye to his mother to Sam Jackson's "I have to be mysterious and intellectual and concerned" portrayal of a Jedi Master. It was really bad. All of it. Now the question comes as to who's to blame. I put the blame on the director. I've said for many years that George Lucas is not a director. He is a visionary...yes but he has trouble commanding his craft as a filmmaker. In ANH, Mark Hamill's acting was flat and one dimensional. Who directed him...Lucas. The next two installments, ESB and ROTJ, had different directors who brought depth to the actors and really made them these believeable "people". They understood pacing, tone, point-of-view... all of the things that are necessary of a filmmaker. Mr. Lucas just needs to do what he did with the original trilogy and just be the visionary and let other people bring it to life. He would still have creative control... obviously... but he just be that, creative consultant. A Producer.
Other than that I find that a lot of these so called problems of TPM will be resolved if you look at the big picture. The whole "universe" at the time of TPM was at this innocent and naive point. It was the golden age of their history. Everything was perfect. If you look at pretty much all of the characters they all have this naiveity to them. Qui Gonn's need to train this young Jedi although being strongly warned by the Council. Jar Jar's child-like view of his world and how it's changing. I will not go through all of them but you get the picture. I think, like Harry said, that you will see a lot of these characters change... drastically. They will see their golden world destroyed and it will have a definate impact on their view of their world. I cound myself getting really excited about Harry's thought of Jar Jar becoming this hard, stoic, character with emotional and physical scars of the world he lost. (Picture him quietly standing next to Anakin or Obi Wan with a big blaster in his hand, only quietly, with his Gungan accent, interjecting his thoughts when asked. Having fully matured into a soldier.) It's like talking to a 12 year old. With their almost annoying energy and excitement and then talking to him three or four years later only to find out his whole family was killed in a car accident or something. You would notice an entire change in that kid. His outlook on life would be a complete turn-around. All of these characters will mature into the people that we have all anticipated and hoped for. Just have faith in Star Wars and wait for the future. -
I totally agree with Harry on Anakin. I pictured him as a kid far more like Cole in "The Sixth Sense" than the way Jake Lloyd portrayed Anakin. Haley would have been a great choice--smart, tormented, and completely messed up--with the potential to go either (good/evil) way! I also thought the kid in Gladiator would have done a better job than Jake Lloyd.
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Jedi is no masterpiece, but compared to the Phantom Menace it's Citizen Kane. On the crucial parts that matter, characters we care about and drama that's involving, Jedi delivers. I'll admit a lot of that is carry over from the first two films, and the film has it's share of weaknesses, but as a wrap up of Luke's story the film really comes through. TPM fails on so many fundamental levels it's mind-boggling, cheif among them a poorly dramatized plot. Add to that bad casting, a lack of focus in the storytelling (who's fucking story is it...Anakin's, Qui-Gon's, Obi-Wan's, Palpatine's?), and special effects that range from awe-inspiring to cartoony, and you have the mess that is The Phantom Menace. The only reason the movie's as good as it is, is due to George's visual genius. Now imagine those visuals with a script as good as Empire and you can see how far the movie came from reaching it's potential. I hope Jonathon Hales is the next Lawrence Kasdan. And I don't care what Harry thinks, Jar-Jar is a terrible character. His vocal characterization is grating and annoying, the animation of him is too exaggerated to be believable, and he wastes valuable screen space in a movie that's overstuffed with characters to begin with. As far as I'm concerned, TPM is a big write-off in the Star Wars saga. The next movie has to start from square one to be successful, because nothing of value was explored or developed in the first one.
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I liked your second review a lot. One of the things I'verecently realized about Phantom Meanace was that George Lucas hadn't directed a film in twenty years - no wonder there were some problems with it. I bet old Georgie has his sea legs (or space legs)back for episode two. I agree that jar Jar will probably grow into something a little less annoying as the films continue. I hope episode two, like Empire, is a darker film. Peace out.
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Jar Jar is NO Chewbacca!!! Chewbacca works because he's playing against type if you will. You look at this 8' tall walking carpet and think he's a real heartless bad ass. But as the films go on you see his real personallity and it's not what you expect. Jar Jar, looks like a bumbbeling idiot... he plays a bubbeling idiot... where's the fun in that? Anyhow, I think he's by FAR the weakest charactor in the movie! But I don't think he ruined the picture. The most disturbing thing about him is those Jar Jar toung candies I saw. The makers of it are encouaging kids to open Jar Jar's mouth and suck on his toung?!?!?! That's just fucked up! What a horrible idea!!! I want to know what kind of state GL was in when this spec came across his desk... he looks at it... thinks "The french-kissing Jar Jar candy"... "Sounds good to me!" *STAMP*
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This is precisely the mindless drivel that is for the weak and easily pacified. I urge all of you that are dissatsified to refuse to concede to this substandard review on this ephemeral site and to flame Mr. Knowles and his minions. I will be monitoring the situation.
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Yes, Just as we slow down and glance over and some hideous aftermath of a high speed crash involving what used to be two sports cars, we all went to see this film more than once in theaters.
Jake Loyd's delivery of lines was so piss poor that I believe my Dog would have done better. Jar Jar was so obnoxious I couldn't begin to tolerate him. Who would have thought the Ewoks could be taken for most annoying creature ever in a film. You create the only thing that ever came close to besting Vader as the A numero uno badass in Darth Maul and you only give him less than Ten minutes Screen time??? Captain Panaka is a Lando wannabe and Natalie Portman will never be my Princess Leia Slave Girl.
Lightsaber Duel at the end was fun, but I need more than 15 minutes of goodness to enjoy a film. The Naboo fighters moved like a 1930's buick. Obi Wan was nothing more than Qui Gonn's Sissy. Mace windu delivered every line as though he knew he was missing his marks, but didn't care cause he was in a Star Wars Flick.
I'm tired of people excusing this film because its Star Wars or because it is setting up two more films. Star Wars is special because we grow to love the characters. Not just one or two, we love them all. TPM we watch and wonder, but we never make that connection. Why take away the mystic wonder of the force and invent these little Metachlorians?
I understand they are a plot device, but now when I watch the First three films I have lost a little bit of the Buddahism that was the Force. We have all given this film the benefit of the doubt too many times. Had Lucas spent more time on the Dialogue and the Delivery of those lines instead of showing us all the Eye candy special effects this film could have touched the kid in me. I believe thats why the first three were so good. Lucas was forced to nail the script and the acting becuase Effects were limited and the budget was low.
Think of some of the changes in the special editions. Personally the Sarlacc was more fearsome when you didn't see that which lay below than this off color obvious CGI bird beak they added. The music scene in Jabba? Before is was dark and gritty. Now its hokey and misplaced in the scheme of whats going on. They took Jabba from being pretty cool and fearsome to a Fat slug who can't stay awake. Just my opinion, but I think most of the people I have talked to about this film agree with me on everything I have said.
Take care...
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May 17, 2000 12:00:18 PM CDT
Of course Jar Jar was the most developed -- Lucas wouldn't have
by superninja
Well, I was not impressed. The reason (poop jokes and dialect aside) is that the character IS NOT REALLY THERE AND IT SHOWS. There are many, many scenes where it's apparent that the actors aren't looking at anything. That's not going to change over the next few films. Pixels can't act, but yet a bunch of orange and yellow pixels were expected to act in every scene of TPM. The actors have always carried Star Wars, with the exception being the FLUKE that was ESB. So tell me how the actors are supposed to emote when there is nothing there to play off of. Lucas needs to take a freaking stage directing class.
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Harry hits a lot of right spots:
-life as a slave doesn't seem that bad
-lack of a true back story for Anikan
-alien speaking like aliens
But he also misses quite a bit:
-the dialouge in the movie was wooden
-you couldn't feel for these characters except for Shmi
-lack of a evil/enemy presence. The Neumodians? Please, they were coniving cowards.
-how could he go through all that an not mention the improper use of Darth Maul. I mean, we really haven't seen a bad guy character in a long time. Probably since Darth Vader himself. This guy was cool, evil, menacing. Most of all, he had a presence. So why not use him more? The Sith side was the best untold story in the movie. Instead of developing all that stuff with Jar Jar, develop Maul.
-Too much water scenes. It did become redundant to see both monsters who were threatening our heroes meet the same fate.
-Lucas fell in love with the idea of having a CGI character and over did it with Jar Jar.
ROTJ was a disappointment, especially after ESB. I would have thought he'd have learned his lesson after the fuzzy Ewoks (who didn't fit into the entire SW universe of characters). He didn't and we got Jar Jar. This is what makes me worry about Episode II. -
Generally kids see and enjoy great movie sequences, they watch the laser fights, the space ships soar past, the big explosions etc...they seem to ignore and figet during the talking sequences and from this point of view Episode 1 was a great movie. For us older viewers we expect this plus a plot, more complex plot lines, character motives etc. Apart from Palpatine tricking Amidala into calling for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum so he could repace him and the removal of the trade federation, again so he can replace them with a body of his own so he will reap the huge profits from their trade routes and use them to fund the building of his galatic empire, Phantom Menece had non of them. The characters were to one dimensional. Gone was the realism of the original draft, where the Naboo and Gungans were seperate because of their racial hatred, one scene had Amidala refusing to board her ship because Jar Jar was on board, this would have made their joining forces more promnent as they put aside their haterd to fight a common enemy. Another scene had Padme have a crush on Obi Wan that would lead to maybe a emotional conflict in episode 2, who does she love, Anakin or Obi Wan. Phantom is cool but lacks those small, over looked little increidents us fans love to analyse.
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Sorry, all you Lucas-bashers, but I, a long-standing Star Wars maniac, LOVED TPM! It had it's flaws (Jar-Jar, wooden Anakin), but it was still Star Wars. It was a good movie and a great start to this trilogy. So many of the people who write in to this site are so wrapped up in the concept of the perfect movie and nitpicking anything to death, that they seem to have forgotten how to let that go and enjoy a movie with all your heart. Star Wars movies carry me away to a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. They did in 1977 and still do today. Keep up the good work, George! I'm looking forward to Episode II and Mace Shaft, er, I mean Windu.
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I agree with you Harry on almost every point. I think we should have seen more things that Anakin was afraid of--things that would turn him into a control freak. Control Freak + Power = Darth Vader.
On another note, Orson Scott Card wants Jake Lloyd for the lead for Ender's Game. When I saw him at a book signing, he said (quite passionately) that the Jake Lloyd we saw in Ep 1 is not the real Jake Lloyd. Card said that when well directed, the kid can act very well. I'm hoping Ender's Game goes into production so we can see that! -
I agree with every criticism about this movie, they're all valid... but why do I love this movie so much? Do I even need a reason? I can watch it over and over again.
But regardless of what you think about the movie, I can't believe some of you are degrading Lucas so viciously. I mean come ON the man is responsible for my interest in movies to this day! Without Star Wars I never would've become a film geek, never would've seen THE TAXI DRIVER,never went to FILM SCHOOL, never would've been interested in screenwriting and comic book art ( I am a comic book artist by profession- go to www.gettosake.com t see my work),
So get off it already. If you are 25 - 30 yrs old then chances are Star Wars defined our movie going lives, face it! I can't believe that some of you guys are tryng to discredit ANH and ESB or even claim that Lucas wasn't responsible for their greatness!
So even if you're not a fan of TPM, Lucas is still a true visionary, pioneer filmmaker, look at the experimental THX 1138 and the excellent American Graphitti. Lucas was the man behind Raiders of the Lost Ark (the best Action Film of all time PERIOD So what if he makes a couple of duds. Even Orson Welles had duds. Scorsese made that awful CASINO flick but he's still a genius! Coppolla made JACK for cryin OUT LOUD! But you can't deny the power of the GODFATHER. (heck Godfather part 3 was worse than TPM!) Also don't forget the contributions Lucas made to the technical aspects of films. without THX sound NEO blazing throught the Lobby in THE MATRIX wouldn't have been as exciting.
I know you guys want to take him down a peg, but Lucas has earned his right to sit high on his throne at Skywalker Ranch. Some of yo guys want to see this guy FAIL so badly it isn;t even funny. So What if TPM sucked? I'm thankful for ANH, ESB and Raiders, I guess what they say is true...It's lonely at the top
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Great review, and I retract my accusation of Harry turning bitter over the Lucas Ranch incident. Harry is right in that TPM is better than Jedi but far behind the other two (try comparing Jedi & TPM scene for scene: it's no contest, Jedi just has higher peaks and lower lows) WHere he's wrong is in his problem witht the depiction of Anakin. As a wise TalkBacker already posted, all slaves aren't beaten and treated like shit. And why it it necessary for Anakin to already have the seeds of evil? We've been over this so many times! It's the separation from his MOTHER that causes him to be afraid, and why Yoda senses this fact. His undoing, his fall, will come as a result of things THAT HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET. Again, there were some missteps with this film, but Qui-Gon was meant to be the protagonist here, and that's why the Anakin/Obi-Wan relationship wasn't fleshed out as much. There isn't enough time to have a bonding between every single cast member. The important Anakin relationship in this film is his friendship/attraction to Amidala. He will probably transfer some of his motherly feelings towards her, and their pseudo-Oedipal marriage will be one of the reason he goes batty in the long run, especially after his mother dies. *** As for this being a kids film, is there anything in the original trilogy as in-your-face as Qui-Gon getting run-through? I didn't think so. Even Uncle Owen & Aunt Beru were murdered off-screen. That couples with Maul being sliced at the torso make for a pretty gruesome ending. What the else do you want? The film goes from a happy fantasy start to a grim finale (much better funeral scene than Jedi). *** Lastly, as for the Neimoidans, the voices may have been retarded, but they were meant to be stooges easily manipuated by Sidious. THe invasion was a total red herring just to make Palpatine chancellor. Of course there wasn't any element of APPARENT danger, because the film's titled The PHANTOM Menace. Or was that too hard to figure out?
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First, I am really glad to see you loved Jar-Jar as much as I did, and while I can see where you are coming from with the few issues you did have, let me try to explain the way I see those things. First of all Anakin. Sure he was a slave, and for that we are supposed to feel some sympathy, but for you to expect bad conditions is a little hastey of you. On Tattoine, slaves are a valued status symbol. They are treated like precious pets, they are given adequate lodging and even earn an "allowance" to get their own things. Gardula the Hutt might have been a good example of a bad slave owner, but Watto was actually a very nice guy for a shadey parts dealer. Also, Anakin's fear is only about leaving his mother. He has a great deal of reservation about that alone. That is all Yoda and the council senses. This may not be what you were expecting, but the story demads that this be the way it is. As far as expecting Anakin to be haunted at this point, well there is a reason for that as well. Anakin is so pure that even his dreams seem good and right. I mean, he is talking about being a Jedi and coming back to free the slaves. This is not the darker stuff that he will be involved with later. He has to be ultra sweet and pure in this one. I mean, even Hitler had to be a good kid at one point. It was also important that it was really hard to see the fear in him. It was important to make the audience fully beleive in Anakin as a good hero. This is used to contrast starkly from what he will eventually become. I truly beleive that when all the films are complete, you will see how this works much better, and it will make more sense to you. Could be wrong, but at least I can count on you to keep an open mind. After all, you did not fall to the "everyone who's cool should hate Jar-Jar" bandwagon, and that says alot.
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Around the time of Episode 1's release I saw an interview with George Lucas where he's sitting around with a couple of his director friends and their saying stuff like "So George are you going to direct the next movie?" and he's saying in a brass, big headed way "Well I might". He's sitting there likes he's the most talented guy in the world, and yes he has created the most fantastic universe ever, great story, great characters but he just cannot direct. He completed EP1 and he thought he had created the greatest movie ever. He was so sure of him self, how clever he had been with the special effects etc that he couldn't see the faults in his movie. In the 1970's he was putting his whole soul, his every essence into telling great storys that became great movies, these days he's trying to be clever, show off, show everyone that he's the greatest and richest movie maker thats he's making bad films. He's in it for the money, not for the story telling
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This film is definately a flawed piece of entertainment. However, it did have it's good points and Jar Jar Binks is not one of them. He stinks and he will continue to stink in the next two films. I don't care what you people may think Lord George's plans for Mr. Binks are, that character was created for kids and that is the way he will remain. And as long as he's in the films, they will continue to fall far short of the original three.
PS Casting that Ryan Phillipe lookalike as the older Anakin isn't helping matters any. -
...nurturing Martha Stewart.
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Whoever said Lucasfilm was non-profit organization.
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I liked Phantom Menace and am a big star wars fan.I have to disagree with Harry about Jake Loyd and point my fingers at Jar Jar.Jar Jar is an incredible CG character and was funny at times but the voice, I'm sorry was annoying to me.The lightsaber battles were far better than any other Star Wars film but the script can no way match the original Star Wars.I loved the pod race and the creatures.Darth Maul was awsome and so were the jedi, the music was great also. I have to say that although it did not match the original ANH it was great to see a new Star Wars Movie up on the screen agian and I can't wait for the next two even if they are going to be darker films.Thanks for your site harry and thanks for reading.
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...But I keep having to do WORK. First of all, I think it's admirable that Harry decided to do another review after a year. This is Star Wars after all, and as much as some of you are saying you didn't like the film, to be so consumed with it that you still feel the need to discuss it speaks volumes about the power of the film, and the influence it has had...Here's my perspective, 363 days later: If I had to rank the films right now, TPM would fall into second place, right behind ANH. What Lucas did in Episode I was expand the universe he created in the original trilogy. You cannot show the fall of a Great Republic if you do not first show the Great Republic in all its glory. The Phantom Menace has a complex storyline, one charged by politics and duplicity. Darth Sidious/Palpatine is positioning himself for power and gain. What specifically does he want on the Planet Naboo? We don't know yet, but he does not succeed in taking control of the planet. This part of his plan fails, yet he does gain the power of the Chancellorship. To tell the story of the rise of the Emperor, the story becomes neccesarily political. You don't one day decide to take over the Galaxy and do it. It takes years of positioning, making alliances and deals, forming trusting relationships with those you will later betray. Against this background, the Jedi discover the boy who will fulfill the Force Balance Prophecy. I have read many criticisms of Lucas' decision to begin Anakin's story at such a young age. Again, you must show the glory before the fall. In this case, it is important for us to see the innocent boy that Anakin was. Face it, you become more aware of the world and its injustices as you enter your teens. As a boy, Anakin still has hopes and dreams. I get the feeling a lot of critics don't understand how strong with the Force the boy is. In ANH, we know that Luke uses the Force torpedo the Death Star because we hear Obi-Wan's voice tell him to. Anakin does not know what the Force is, and yet he uses its power. He is the only human who can race Pods. Why? The Force. The Force also signals him to fire his cannons at the end of the film, destroying the Federation Battle Ship. It is no accident, although Anakin himself may believe it is. It is my firm belief that Jar Jar will play a significant and tragic role as the saga progresses. We saw him beginning to mature toward the end of TPM (I do agree with the criticism that his character would have been stronger if he had not helped win the battle through clumsiness), and his retention of innocence in the face of dire circumstances will contrast Anakin's loss...Let me address two of Harry's criticisms directly. An earlier poster pointed out the differences between the American horrors of slavery and the less brutal Roman practice, so let me share some thoughts on the non-issue of racial sterotyping. I think that the belief that JarJar, the Nemoidians, Watto et al. are stereotypes says less about Lucas' intent than it does about the Culture of Victimization we have here in the United States. Moreover, I'll go so far as to say that that had Jar Jar not been portrayed by an African American, but had been voiced and illustrated in the exact same manner, there would have been no controversy. I've never heard anyone speak or behave like Jar Jar, but in the critics reasoning, a Black man portrayed him, therefore he must be a Black stereotype. What pretzel logic. The folly of this was brought to light in the controversy over Watto, when no one could decide which ethnic group had the right to be offended ("He was Jewish." "No, he was Middle-Eastern!" "No, he was Italian.") The Nemoidians spoke in English (Basic in the Star Wars galaxy) for the same reason the Russian spoke English in The Hunt For Red October, and everyone spoke English, not Latin, in Gladiator: They had a lot of dialogue, and this being the case, it was felt that it would be better for the film if the audience wasn't constantly being asked to read subtitles during their frequent scenes. By the way, their accent was Transylvanian, not Chinese, Japanese, or another Asian dialect...To anyone who actually read this far down in my post, thank you. I obviously loved TPM and believe it stands up to the tremendous standards set by the OT. One year down, two to go until Episode II.
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I can't believe you think that this character is going to be some respectable character in the coming episodes and will encounter tragedy and serious issues- Jar Jar is just comic relief, poorly designed, period. He's the 3PO of this series, but detested by the general population, if you don't believe me, take a poll, you have the power Harry. kids might enjoy him, but George is a better writer than that- he surely can write a character that all people can enjoy and understand. Jar Jar will be like 3po- no real functional reason for being there, just a "third wheel" to the group- there should be no reason for Jar Jar to be in the next movie, logically- he proved himself on the battlefield to the Gungans, regaining his respect to his people, no longer an outcast, why would he leave them? No one formed any sort of bond to him in Episode One, most of his lines met no human response of any sort (gee, like he wasn't actually there [cg character]) and Anakin didn't seem to be moving toward any sort of friendship with him. Threepio worked because he bounced off Artoo throughout the series, Jar Jar is just off to the side screwing up and being stupid while everyone ignores him- get rid of him and spend the CG money on more sets and ships, bring back threepio and give him some skin.
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It is times like this that I must admit that you, Harry, are one hell of a movie critic. I agree with 100% of your comments on TPM. To be honest though, I never thought of the "haunted" young Anakin, but it would have made an excellent element to the first episode. I feel that Anakin should have been cast an older child, maybe an adolescent. There have been many debates about Jake Loyd and the point has been brought up that child actors just can't act. I disagree with this. Look at Henry Thomas in ET. He carried that movie very well and was probably around the same age as Jake. One last thing, the whole "alien language" thing. We must not forget the honorable Admiral Akbar; he spoke English (with a bactrian dialect).
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...waste of html space!
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Well, I made my first entry earlier today as a long time reader and frequent visitor to AICN. I read Harry's "Review" and some of the talkback and was moved to respond.
I'm going to continue to visit the site, as Harry does a good job. But you guys who send all of this hate mail crap are ruining a good forum.
The folks that respond on-topic are using this correctly, but you "TPM Sucks Regardless" and "Jar-Jar Must Die" idiots need to find a place of your own to toss your garbage into. And this fool that keeps calling for his "fanboy" army to rise up...what a simple idiot. You're probably sitting there right now eating a left over 12" Subway meatball sandwich and a bag of chips in front of your PC with your freaking death metal CD blasting as you whack off to a picture of Courtney Love. Hot tip...get a job and get off your fat ass and get a life.
The talkback feature would be a much better place without you. I'm pretty sure most readers would agree. You guys just insist on screwing up anything good on the 'net. You give it a bad name. You are a bunch of freaks.
Half of you can't even spell for God's sake. SPELL CHECK YOUR WORK!! It makes you look as moronic as you are. You could at least fool someone into thinking you have SOME sense by spelling things correctly.
Oh well, I'm sure you guys will have a ball blasting off on me for this. As for the people who use this forum as I'm sure it was meant to be used...more power to ya' and MTFBWYA!! -
Or will his goofiness later be shown to be a conscious construct, a facade of misdirection covering the incredible level of psychic evil within? Ever read Isaac Asimov's Foundation Trilogy? Star Wars is very much like Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" played out in Asimov's Foundation universe. And in Asimov's Trilogy there exists a character, this clown, a goof, a jester, an actor, who turned out to be..........SURPRISE! I would guess that George Lucas is aware. The story ain't over yet.
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Movies are an art form. in the really good ones you can see it.
TPM like so many other movis has no art. the only thought behind it was how to take money from kids.
Wake up, thare was never a sequle planned for STAR WARS. it was called EPISODE 4 as a joke. only after it made a lot of money the whole saga thing really started.
But EMPIRE and JEDI both had a good story, a heart and most importent, the art was still there. those were great movies.
TPM had no art. only greed. it is not an evil movie, just a bad one. -
In the first place, Anakin's "fear" was something that all his "godlike powers" and fearlessness in the face of the universe are not able to deliver him from. Anakin can deal quite handily with the present, but he is afraid of the future. His fear has nothing to do with Watto or slavery, it is connected to his mother -- he probably senses that when he goes back to rescue her she's going to die ("My place is here, my future is here") and he may have an inkling of his own dark destiny. As for Jake Lloyd's acting, yes it was rough (though he did have some convincing moments), but STAR WARS has never been about acting, Lucas has never been an actor's director, and the SW films have never been a forum for thespians or actorly performances (just go back and watch the silly 70s bickering in the first two movies). What STAR WARS has always been about is mythology and visionary storytelling, about things we've never seen before, cultures and worlds and contraptions with a logic and an appeal all their own, about powerful and competent and courageous heroes and the plotting machinations of evil villains, about the seductiveness of evil and the triumph of goodness. Criticize the acting if you must, but get over it and go on to what makes STAR WARS great. There's a lot of it in THE PHANTOM MENACE.
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If The Phantom Menace was truly so bad, then why did it make so much money? Why'd it make a billion worldwide? If this movie stinks, why did people go over and over again to see it. People seem to be able to make up their minds pretty quickly about whether a movie sucks. Just look at the audience drop-off on Battlefield Earth. As the saying goes, you can't argue with success.
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I was nodding my brain in agreement all the way up to the "I hope for Jar Jar charecter development bit. ARGH! His every babble made me cringe. I could only bring myself to wathc TPM 3 times even though I wanted to be madly in love with it as I was with Episode IV and ROJ.
Jar JAr has absolutley NOTHING on any of the Lucas' previous comedic relief charecters (C3PO, the Ewoks, etc.). In fact I would gladly listen to the Ewoks victorious celebration song from the end of TESB for 48 hours straight if Jar Jar was striken from the public record.
I hope and pray for so much more from the next two episodes. Darkness, suffering, triumph over both, etc. And hopefully Lucas will not waste the cool charecters, and focus WAY too much on the juvenile racial charecterization charecters like in TPM.
But as Harry said, I'm also waiting with fiendish glee for the LOR series. I hope it puts the fear into Lucas and he actually tries to live up to the possibilites......or not. -
I'm thinking that the whole first movie is just a setup for better things. Palpatine knew that the chances of a droid/trade federation attack on Naboo actually working were slim. So he uses it to get into the Supreme Chancellorship. (unoriginal there, see Hitler's rise to power...)
I mean, it covers all the bases. He knew they'd probably succeed against the droids and all, so next thing he does is assume control of the trade federation, ditch the unreliable droids for humans and assume power from there.
There's more to this idea, but I haven't worked it all out yet. Works for me tho. -
Okay, I've been chewing on this for a long, long time and now I'm just going to throw it out here for you guys to kick around.
I feel that TPM was only one rewrite away from being a much better film. I'm a scriptwriter myself and I've done some doctoring work, so...here are my TPM rewrites...what the fuck, why not?
Bear in mind that what made the original films so strong were the character moments, the scenes that revealed who these people are as individuals, what sets them apart from each other. There were NONE of those moments in TPM, but the structure that Lucas established would easily have accommodated these moments with only a few minor modifications. These modifications are:
1. You simply MUST have some kind of indication that Anakin is a uniquely powerful individual who can be easily swayed to the Dark Side. Simply running a blood test , raising your eyebrows and saying "Look at all those Chlortrimetons" is not enough. That's exposition. What we need is action. We must SHOW the audience the reality of Anakin's condition. Here's how you do it. Have the Pod Race unfold much as it does. Instead of having Sebulba do something to sabotage the pod prior to the race, have him damage it directly during the race, ala Ben Hur. Anakin fixes the engine exactly as he does in the movie, only now...a look of intense anger crosses Anakin's face as he sees Sebulba zipping way in the lead. The anger deepens. Cut back to Qui Gon Jinn in the stands. Immediately, a strange look crosses his face. He senses something...Obi Wan senses it a moment later. They exchange glances. Obi Wan: "What was that?" Qui Gon looks disturbed. Cut back to the race. A piece of Sebulba's pod buckles, then is literally ripped apart by an invisible force. Sebulba goes up in flames and is killed. Anakin wins.
Afterwards, Qui Gon takes Anakin aside and kneels beside him. "You killed Sebulba, didn't you Anakin?" Anakin is deeply troubled and scared. "I don't know...I didn't mean to. I was so mad at him for cheating...I looked at him and...it just started happening." Qui Gon tells Anakin that what he experienced was the Dark Side of the force...and that he must act in that way again.
This scene serves two purposes: it justifies the entire existence of the pod race and it reveals through action rather than exposition all that we need to know regarding Anakin's power. It is clear that, without guidance, this magnificent talent might as easily be used for evil as for righteousness. And it eliminates the need to reduce they mystery of the force to a mere cellular phenomenon. This scene would make all the other banal scenes with Anakin resonate a little differently, redeeming them with this thrilling character redeeming incident.
2. Lucas missed an outstanding character moment when he mishandled the three way climactic lightsaber duel. What a grand moment he missed! One of the big criticisms of the film is how Obi-Wan, supposedly reckless when he was young, never displays any recklessness (or indeed, character of any kind) during the film. This could have been rectified with just one revision. Here it is: We see Qui Gon Jinn kneel before the shield barrier, while Darth Maul paces like a caged animal on the other side. THIS was the shining moment of TPM. THIS was a great contrast between the dark and light sides of the force, the essense of the difference between them. Later, when Qui-Gon falls, is where Lucas dropped the ball. What an amazing moment this would have been: Obi Wan screams, once again imprisoned on his side of the barrier. Darth Maul steps up and glares at him. Obi Wan glares savagely back, pacing, his hand flexing on his light sabre, teeth bared. As he paces, for one brief instant, his eyes dart over to the body of his fallen master. He freezes. A look of profound sorrow shrouds his face. He looks at Darth Maul, then, lowering his light sabre...he quietens his spirit, and kneels peacefully...like his master before him.
And so we have a priceless and defining character moment for Obi Wan.
Which leads us to the CLINCHER, the scene that could have driven the rest of the movies in regard to Obi Wan's guilt over training Anakin. As before, Qui Gon Jinn tells Obi Wan that he must train Anakin. But Obi Wan, even now, must argue.
Obi Wan: Master, I cannot. Anakin has already used the force to kill. He is already tainted by the Dark Side.
Qui Gon: Then we must remove that taint...you must...
Obi Wan: Yoda would never allow it!
Qui Gon: Yoda must never know. (Obi Wan starts to protest, obviously surprised) Obi Wan, Anakin is already powerful beyond measure. Without any training. His talents will surface. It is up to you to see that when they do, they shall be used for righteousness.
Obi Wan: He is too dangerous!
Qui Gon: If you honor my memory...do as I ask...
He dies. And out of loyalty to his former master, against his every instinct, Obi Wan agrees to withhold his knowledge of what happened in the Pod Race and train Anakin. With this setup, imagine Obi Wan's terrible guilt and regret over what will transpire over the next two films. Imagine the possibilities.
There are a number of other things that should have been changed, but I think that these fairly minor revisions, building upon the fairly stable structure Lucas already had in place, could have made all the difference...anyway, I've gone on enough. Feel free to tell me how much I suck at dangernaut@dangernauts.com or stop by dangernauts.com and rant at me from there. Thanx and sorry for the long post... -
That was a great re-review Harry!
A agreed with almost everything you said...
It's just that yes, maybe Jar Jar will have a cool as hell ending (things mught not be so good for him in the future), but George Lucas overdid it a bit.
Yes, some parts were okay - he didn't piss me off totally, at first I actually liked him - BUT
during the ending battle it was a bit overdone - not funny but... Disney-ish. For instance, when an explosion blows into the ground, Jar Jar flies into the air, happening to land on a moving tank, where he accidently destroys the droid contolling it.
Ahhh...
Well, anyway I agree with what else you said - I can't wait for the next ones... AND ESPECIALLY LORD OF THE RINGS!!! -
Jar Jar is only one Gungan. A very clumbsy one at that. The rest of the Gungans, however, aren't clumbsy. In fact, in most of the battle scenes, Gungans are beating the sh*t out of battle droids (not that that seems hard to do) and the way they beat the droids is aggressively, not by accident. I have a feeling we'll be seeing Gungans fighting along side Wookies and various other creatures.
As to the stereotypes. Harry points out that Nemoidians wont seem like orientals to him if they speak a different language than the standard english. And that Watto, to him, will seem less Jewish if he spoke something other than standard English. Now, here's a question for those that think Jews are like Watto and Nemoidians are orientals...Have you ever watched a movie where there are in fact orientals and/or Jews and they speak different languages than English? ((shhhh, I dont want everyone to see this so dim your screens a bit....in other places in the world...people have different languages..it's true! and sometimes, they even look slightly different too...shocked???? and...Jews dont look like Toydarians, although some people do have ideas as to how a Jew should sound, and by God, if they dont sound like they're supposed to, then I want my money back, because if Jews dont sound like Watto, then they're not Jewish..it's true, and all whitey's from Britain...they're part of the Imperial Empire, it's true, just listen to their voices, dont let everything else about them fool you...shhh, dont tell anyone)) So, if Harry is right, then making Watto and the Nemoidians speak a made up foreign language will help weak minded people think they're not stereotypes. That kinda doesn't make sense. Anyways...Harry does have a small point, that noone has really expounded on. Apparently George has stumbled onto something and he hasn't realized it. Those people that think those creatures in Episode 1 are stereotypical mainly base it on the sound of the creatures voices. Nemoidians "sound" like asians ((not that I know any asians that sound like that, although I have seen dubbed movies where they translate Asian dialect into English and for some reason the translation sounds similar to a Nemoidian)) and Toydarians, all of them we're assuming, sound like Jewish/Yiddish people ((kinda like the trader guy in Gladiator, except he was in North Africa or something, not on Tattooine...talk about a racist movie! they call the gladiator Spaniard just cause he can fight?? I want my money back from Riddley the racist Scott!!)) but believe me, folks, Nemoidians and Toydarians do not look human. So, what George has brought to light, by accident, is that it really depends on how a person sounds, more than how they look. How many people know asians, africans, germans or whatever that have a New York accent? Who cares what they appear like. You assume they're from New York, no matter what they look like. So thanks, George, for making this point more clear to the general public. It's not a bad thing, but it's something a lot of people have learned or are learning about themselves. What you sound like matters! If you have a lisp...you sound like a **fill in the blank**. But what Harry is really trying to say, by saying the creatures should speak different languages is that everyone should sound exactly the same or everyone should have their own language. For a movie like the Godfather, it's ok that every gangster "sounds" Italian, thats not racist in the least, but in Star Wars movies and those that watch them are too small minded to accept that there are accents in the Star Wars universe. To make the sarcastic remarks more clear in this post, I have one question? Why the f*ck doesn't Lando and Captain Panaka sound like Samuel L Jackson/Shaft ?? Is George dumb or something or doesn't he realize most of you bozo's think all African Americans call each other nigga and sh*t? Doesn't he know you all think that, and that niggas should look like niggas and whiteys should look and sound like whiteys and that Toydarians should sound like...I mean how many people know a white person who raps, or a nigga who can actually sing? They dont exist, right dumbasses?
Rawhkey -
Big thing - Story structure - who was the main character? Who was the hero? What was the conflict? Yes this is a prelude to everything, a feature length opening crawling text, but it can still be a story. It felt like reading a history text. It wasn't "I'm with these characters and feel for their plight", it was closer to "This happened, then this happened, then this happened- etc.
Little things - details that could have made all the difference. Why JarJar and the Gungans? Why not young Admiral (Back when he was Ensign) Ackbar and the Mon Calamari? Why is he a stupid coward that isn't funny? I would much preferred a reckless, overly brave scrappy doo type if we need comic relief. Wookies? Anyone?
Am I the only one that thinks that the super power of "tripping and accidentally blowing up a bunch of highly trained badasses" has no place in a true adventure movie? JarJar blowing up the droids, Annakin lucking his way through an aerospace dogfight; remember Jamie Lee Curtis dropping an uzi down the flight of stairs in "True Lies"?
I think Annakin could have been far more creepy and effective if he very deliberately flew up and desroyed the Nemoidian flagship. Darth Vader doesn't blow stuff up by accident. He blows stuff up because it's in his way.
It's cool that Lucas is accountable to no producers or studio heads. But maybe he should run his ideas past a couple of trustworthy people first next time. (Lawrence Kasdan?) -
First off, I love Star Wars. The little nine year old in me who saw Star Wars for the first time in the fall of 1977 would consider it sacriledge of me to denounce the god-like George Lucas in any way. And to be brutally honest, Lucas coulda used stick puppets for Episode One and I would have watched. Some may consider the use of computer animation just as bad as stick puppets. I knew I was a sucker for the movie before it was committed to film. I've been waiting for episode one for 23 years.
There is one unforgivable error in judgement that Lucas made however, and it's the same error that I have seen made countless times all my life, by writers and producers and directors and network executives. It is that in order to make a movie for children, you have to dumb it down. That a movie can't be dark and dangerous and scary because it might harm some child's mind. This is the fatal blow that has destroyed the idea of 'family entertainment' and turned it into a joke. Does anyone remember Old Yeller? They shoot the dog in the end. Tell me that was dumbed down for children and I will laugh at you.
Lucas has said repeatedly he made Episode One for the same audience he made for Star Wars. It's just that it's over twenty years later so it's the new generation he's catering to now and those of us who were 9 years old in 1977 are just gonna have to deal with it. But you know what? He didn't make Star Wars for children. He made it because something in him drove him to make it. When everyone told him it couldn't be done, and when even he himself questioned it, he kept plugging. And he had nothing to lose. He didn't have corporate interests or teams of people telling him what would work and what didn't. From the first words on the screen to the final victory tableau, Star Wars came from the heart, and was built from scratch by the skin of his teeth. The people who worked with him on Star Wars helped him bring the vision to reality. The people who were whispering in his ear during Phantom Menace.. well frankly they should be keelhauled. Or else forced to watch reruns of Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher until their eyes bleed.
Episode One was not written just by Lucas. It was pooled by committee. "We can't have this" "What would X think?" "We need to do that." "Anakin needs to be younger to cater to such and such demographic." Blah blah blah. It was dumbed down. It suffered the same flaws that most mainstream media suffers now: it was designed to not offend the lowest common denominator.
What could have been the greatest tale told in the past two centuries became Just Another Movie. It's not terrible. It's not marvelous. It's okay. It's an okay movie, but after waiting thirty years, the little nine year old kid in me was expecting something more. And he still expects it. He didn't get what he wants. And if he doesn't get what he wants by Epiosde 3 he's gonna throw a temper tantrum.
How's THAT for a "year later review"? -
RE: why did it make money if it sucked? Three words for you to ponder - The Backstreet Boys. Financial success is not always the result of well crafted product. Enough good marketing, especially in a name franchise can even make a turkey like Batman Forever a success. But you can't fool everyone all the time, because all the name recognition and marketing in the world couldn't save Batman4. I don't think TPM was lousy. I just don't think it deserves to be in the same league as The Empire Strikes Back.
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I'm just messing witcha. Great review. Having a niece and nephew who like to pop in the video every now and then, I've been highly exposed to this movie as of late. The parts that I walk away from to finish chores: 1) Intro of Anakin up to pod race 2) Obi, Qui, Jar Jar, talking to Boss Nass. 3) The final battle scenes, whenever they cut to Anakin getting lucky avoiding bullets and destroying the spaceship. Other than those, the movie still stands as "entertainment".
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Thats a damn good way to improve on the story but I have to disagree on 'Qui Gons last dying wish' . I would love to have seen Obi Wan just there by himself completely confused as to what to do, now that the body of Qui Gon just lays there and Darth Mauls is in pieces at the bottom of the shaft.
Obi Wan mutters to himself "What do I do now?"
Remembering that Qui Gon wanted to train Anakin, Obi Wan recklessly takes it upon himself to complete his Masters task. -
I will start by saying that I am a great Star Wars fan. I watched the first movie in 1977 at the age of 4. I'm 27 now and have waited A LONG time for the prequel.
But through all the anticipation, once I spent 250 dollars to see the film three days before its national release at Denver's Children's Hospital benefit, I couldn't help but feel a bit let down.
I wasn't let down in a way that would destroy my being a Star Wars fan but I was let down because George Lucas lost his touch with how truly intelligent kids are.
I was four years old when A New Hope came out. I didn't need slapstick humor to understand the jokes. I felt the fear that Darth Vader brought with him as he stepped onto the Tantive IV.
Why has George so completely altered his methodology of telling stories? I doubt that Joseph Campbell would say this last film was worthy of modern mythic status.
I will say, however, that I loved the Dueling scenes in TPM. They are best of all the films in my opinion. Ray Park just brought a new diminsion to what a bad-ass Jedi would be like in combat.
But that was the high-light
Overall, I felt that things were too rushed in this film. The space battle was non-existent. Anakin mistakenly won the battle. It was by his ignorance that he lauched photon tordedoes into the main reactor of the droid control ship. It didn't have to happen that way. I thought he was supposed to be some HUGE hero. It would have been nicer to see him reach out with the force (not knowing exactly that it was the force) and intuitively know which trigger or button to press.
The thing about the original trilogy was that it slowed down when it needed to. Here, in TPM, it was like an apprentice wizard finding his masters wand (CGI) and weilding it for the first time, and just goes crazy. An artist should use certain colors (CGI) sparingly. He (George) was showing us a story rather than telling us. He used to do a good mixture of both. What happened?
The attention to small details we saw in the first films were not missing completely but were not on equal ground.
The acting from the main cast (Liam, Natalie, and Ewan) was superb but the rest of the cast with the exception of Ian lacked luster.
George has forgotten that a child can understand and doesn't need his/her hand held through the entire film.
Let Go LUCAS...reach out with your feelings.
I can only say that the next one will be bad too if he doesn't get another director. He is a producer now. A 20 year abscence from directing is too long. The changes in movie making and acting styles have surpassed him.
It was a sad day to see the Oscars and find TPM with not one Episode One oscar. This is the first film to not receive one. So anyone who thinks that this is a cinematic masterpiece should really think again. -
I really think you came up with a good way to show Anakin boiling over during the pod race. I especially like the way you have the Jedi feeling the distrubance. I would even go so far as to say that is Star Wars calibur stuff. But the thing is, Anakin cannot show any kind of pre disposition as a hot head yet. Lucas was tossing the idea of doing pretty much what you wanted, (there was going to be a scene with Young Greedo (actual greedo we see in ANH) where Greedo accuses Anakin of cheating, and Anakin loses it and starts knocking the crap out of him. Qui-Gon intervenes and points out that the fight had not changed Greedos opinion.) but decided against it, because he realized that should come later on. The point of having him such a perfect angel in this one is to keep the audience from separating themselves from him. If they saw that he had some sort of evil seed in this one, then they could seaprate Anakin from themselves as a "loose cannon" to begin with. The reason you are expecting that is because most cinema allows the audience to separate themselves from the bad guy, by pointing out major differences. In the prequels, George is taking the audience with Anakin. They will end up walking the dark path with him, and realize how close any one of us is to turning to that dark side at any time. Trust me when I say this will be incredible when it is all said and done. Perhaps mankind will be able to pull itself out of the murky evil it has been soaking in for so long. It is the only way we will have a chance of taking the next step in our evolution.
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Those were some excellent story alterations, dangernaut. If some of your suggestions had taken place, we could have come away from TPM with some cool one-liners instead of JarJar tongue-sucking candy.
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OK, for a great series of articles on TPM, check out the science fiction section of space.com. There's some great food for thought there.
But, I have to admit that I have seen all the criticisms, and I don't agree with any of them!! I have to thank Harry for writing a review that is fair-minded and points out what he sees to be actual flaws, but he still admits to liking the film, refusing to join the "Hip" crowd in attacking it at every opportunity. (A good example of this is "Entertainment Weekly" magazine, which seemingly can't allow an issue to pass without sticking in an anti-TPM comment somewhere, no matter the context.)
I don't entirely agree with Harry on Anakin's fear, or about Jake Lloyd. I think that that kid did a fine job. Of course, his performance seems lacking when viewed next to Haley Joel Osment's great turn in "The Sixth Sense", but I'm talking TPM here. Secondly, I think Lucas' point is that the fall to the Dark Side could happen to anyone, and this is why he shows Anakin as being a fairly normal kid. There are probably real storytelling reasons why he cut the scene where Anakin beats up Greedo, and we need to keep those in mind. When Yoda senses fear, I think that is because the fear has only just begun when he has left his mother. To show a gritty type of crappy slave life I think would have been out of place.
On Jar Jar: he never bothered me, except for three spots: The stepping in shit, the fart joke, and the scene where he meets Padme on the ship. However, take those away, and he's just fine. And the "stereotype" people can stick it up their collective ass.
In fact, I find that the whole stereotype thing is far more indicative of the desire to find something to attack than anything in TPM. I've seen Jar Jar referred to as a black stereotype, a gay stereotype, a Carribean stereotype, and probably a few more. Ditto with Watto, who is Italian, Jewish, Arab, or anything else, depending on who you talk to. And to claim that the Neimoidians are Chinese is ludicrous. Their faces look like my two Persian cats and with those accents I kept waiting for them to "vant to sok my blod". The people harping on stereotypes should examine their own attitudes, inasmuch as it seems weird to find such things in an orange amphibian with his eyes on stalks.
Also, did I miss the boat on ROTJ? When did it become such a bad film? I loved it when it came out, and I still love it. And lest someone think that my own tastes haven't grown up, know that my current thing is the books of Neal Stephenson and the music of Berlioz.
Finally, I have to say that the attacks on Lucas personally are rather disturbing. He's had his mis-steps ("Howard the Duck", "Radioland Murders"), but he's also done incredible things. There seems to be a growing tendency to view Lucas as a cantankerous old fart who is always getting in the way of geniuses like Lawrence Kasdan (who hasn't done much of anything since ROTJ) and Gary Kurtz (where is he now?). Lucas is human, but he's still the guy who gave us Star Wars. I have to say, a lot of these posts make me wonder if the posters like Star Wars at all.
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I have to admit that i've never had any great issues with this movie. I can't understand anybody really having any issues with it. I mean, if you're reading this, you're at AICN, right ? If you're at AICN, then you're here because you have an interest in movies....and this site is the best for reviews, gossip, rumors etc.......so nobody who read this site.........and there are like, millions and millions of us.....should have been surprised at what we saw on screens last summer. This very website was a major contributing factor to the single greatest movie spoiler of all time. We virtually knew every frame of film before it was projected !
The massive outpouring of hatred and seething bitterness toward Jar Jar ? I said it before and I say it again.......he wasn't meant for an age group beyond the age of 10 ! They were his target audience in that movie, not us ! I took my 8 year old son to see the film, and he LOVED the Gungan.....that's when I realised that he was never intended to be a focal point of the movie for my generation. You don't like that ? You don't like the fact that there's a kiddie character in a "U" certificate film......hell, there's your clue right there.....it can be seen by people of all ages !
I think that the main flaw lies not with the film.....but with the audience, who have now become a lot more jaded than they were, fuelled maybe by the tidal wave of Star Wars novels populating the bookshelves these days. These are aimed toward the older readers....the themes are darker, more adult. The naysayers should maybe just unclench a little....relax.......switch off, and enjoy a visual feast. It's not philosophy.......it's only a movie ! -
Okay, everyone complains about the lovable Jar Jar... But come on, folks. We all know that this is not a problem at all, but more so, a solution to our already prevalent problem.. The real problem stares at us in the face as we watch the film. The problem yields lightsabers...yup, you know...those damn jedis... What the hell is a jedi anyway?? gosh...all that talk of the force and all..it makes me sick! There is no such thing as the force.. ANd they always wear hoods!! Gosh, they look more like gang members. Now it is clear to us all...down with the jedis, it would make all of star wars a lot better. In fact, lucas should edit them out of the first three films with his computer expensive company image making thing. he should then replace them with gungans...yeah, that would be cool...
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Great job Harry! You have your moments.
And to lose who think that Episode I could have been better? Well, sorry you feel that way. ANY movie "could have been better". It had it's flaws.. some of them were HUGE flaws... but I still love the movie!
Also, to those who say "hand it over to the directors of TESB and ROTJ..."? You people need to knwo that Lucas made ALL of these films! He oversaw and approved everything. The stories were HIS. Yeah, people finished the complete drafts... but they are HIS. Kirshner probably had the most impact on a SW film other than Lucas... but Lucas still ran the show. Marquand (whatever his name was), ddi NOT make that impression.
The flaw and complaint I have in regards to Lucas' ability, is that he doesn't work with his actors performances as much! That's what Kirshner di so well.
Either way, IT'S LUCAS' WORLD. In the long run, he knows what he's doing. I think this whole film (SWI) is Lucas setting us up! Here we have this kind slave kid... a little nieve... a little annoying. How could HE turn out to be Vader? It's a set up. I think we'll all be shocked when the next two films come out!
PEACE -
May 17, 2000 3:38:48 PM CDT
it appears that my last tpm post was wrong, the bitterness remai
by kojiro
Find Cormorant's post on this talkback and read it. Please. And if anyone actually reads this, my personal take on TPM is that it lacked depth on all levels: script, plot, directing, et. all ad infinitum. Yet I still have hope for EP2. Some.
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May 17, 2000 3:39:18 PM CDT
HARRY, THAT WAS THE BEST REVIEW I HAVE EVER READ FROM YOU! I TOT
by ka' dargo otaku
Stupid, read the title!
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May 17, 2000 3:48:33 PM CDT
HEY, did the guy who did Watto's voice star recently in Gladiato
by el duderino
He had a really tiny role, but he was the dude that sold the gladiator owner the bad girrafes and the gladiators as well. I swear, if you see Gladiator again, you will agree that that guy sounds almost exactly like Watto. Oh, and about the Harry head, IT KICKS ASS! I love how the words "bloated sell out" flash in the animation too!
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When my wife and I saw this movie, we were curious how the two jedi were able to get so close to Palpatine and not notice a huge freaking disturbance in the force. It seems to me they would have picked up on him being a Sith quite easily unless there is something I am missing?
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...whether or not it's a good film, period, and it's not...No excuses, no comparisons, no justifications, no wishful thinking. It simply sucked.
This is coming from a fan of Star Wars, but NOT the fanatical action figure, and memoriabilia collecting, Star Wars geeks, I hear desperately trying to convince themselves, TPM was a good movie. Anyway you dice it, with or without Jar, Jar, Jake Lloyd or whoever else you want to singluarly blame for this mess, it would have STILL SUCKED.
I can't see how anyone could see this piece of crap and still believe it's anything but horrible without first hypnotizing themselves with a plastic light saber.
People say it's because of the hype and high expectations, that this movie seemed so bad. Au contraire!! It's because of the endearing, "geek sacredness"(yeah, I made that phrase up!) of the Star Wars trilogy that so many people are defending it!!...Including the poster child for movie geeks, Harry! Just imagine this film on it's on, without the SW background, toys, following, nostalgia, etc, and then ask yourself, if you would have seen this as anything more then a piece of shit in the shape of hershey bar...Looks tasty, but anyway you bite it, it's shit. -
May 17, 2000 3:58:20 PM CDT
TPM wasn't really a favorite of the younger audience as you thin
by el duderino
I really wish I could agree with you on your review Harry, but alas I cannot. The dialogue was flat and boring in TPM, and Jar Jar Binks, no matter what his future cause may be, should have had MUCH less dialogue. Lucas was able to show everybody that Jar Jar was a complete fool in the first five minutes of his arrival, and he should have used him scarcely throughout afterwards. I mean, what attracted a lot of people to the first Star Wars (episode 4) were the characters, with the smart alec roughneck Hans Solo and the constant arguing that Hans and Leia shared together. The characters in this were dull unless they were computerized. Also, if this was aimed at younger people, then why the INTERGALACTIC GOVERNMENT? Nothing goes worse than flat dialogue and politics in a space adventure!! Anyway, that's just my opinion.
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May 17, 2000 3:58:55 PM CDT
IF IT WASN'T FOR EPISODE 1, AICN.COM WOULD BE IN THE SH*THOUSE,
by []d[][]v[][]d
Other stories like Dinosaur, Gladiator, or other upcoming movies like Tom "Days of Thunder/Cocktail" Cruises MI:2are not gonna drive traffic here only STAR WARS EPISODE I or EPISODE II.
I've seen Episode I multiple times like most other movie fans which helped contribute to its $430 million domestic year end total. AINTITCOOL.COM just put this review here BECAUSE STAR WARS = WEB TRAFFIC. EPISODE I is COOL, EAT MY SHIT TROLLS! -
I think people need to lay off Anakin and give him more credit. Yes, destroying the droid ship was unintentional, but winning the pod race and deciding to use the starfighter to blow up the droids were intentional. I mean, this is the first time the kids been off Tatooine for goodness sake. I also don't think he needed to display the dark side. We are suppose to view Anakin's innocence in TPM foremost.
Also, just because TPM was beat by The Matrix does not mean a thing. The academy does make mistakes you know.
I loved TPM and am personally looking forward to Episode II more then any other movie at this moment. -
I believe that the actor in Gladiator is the same actor that did the voice for Watto.
I have seen Gladiator twice and the reason I have seen it twice is for that very fact.
The first time, the voice and even face resembled Watto's but the second time. I knew it was him. -
everybody's comments made interesting reading so I thought I would give my 2 pence worth. Lucas has gone on record saying that Anakin is innocent at first. Episode 2 will have the clone wars and over the next two films we will see Anakin rise as a jedi to jedi Master. After becoming a hero, Anakin will et big headed and arrogant and his fall will begin. I'm looking forward to seeing it happen and all the speculating is great. my only fear is that Lucas will amble along really slooowwly and then give us the fall in too short a time. i loved tpm (and I'm 26), but let's face it, Lucas is made the film as an introduction to Star Wars. A lot of the plot is being formulated in his mind now and is nothing like the original vision of nine films he had b4 he made A new hope. I have watched TPm many times, but my girlfriend who is not as big a fan as I am enjoyed the film but summed up a lot of peoples feelings by saying "That film could have been 2 hours shorter and tell the same story"
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So, you prefer to deal with occurrences long gone rather than the task at hand? I am amused. I remind you that on this Friday, those with any strength will stifle this inane banter once and for all! I am patient. You will see things differently soon enough.
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The Academy was clearly sending a message that special effects alone will not make a movie great. That's what I meant.
George Lucas had an interview on a cassette called "From Star Wars to Jedi The Making of a Saga"
There he stated
"A special effect without a story is a dull thing."
The Academy made him eat those words.
...sorry that you don't see it that way.
But it's the truth.
P.S. How old are you? -
Seen through the eyes of its intended audience, Barney is the second coming. This does nothing to alleviate the fact that Barney is senseless tripe.
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Some of my posts were deleted....and I didn't say anything about George Lucas raping MY ferret....=(
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His script revisions articulated perfectly what my eyes knew were lacking from the film but my brain just could not put a finger on it. In a word: substance. I just do not care about any of these characters. When Liam Neeson's character died, I sat there pretty much stone-faced, because I really did not care one way or the other. To contrast, I think I nearly bawled when Boba Fett fell into the sand pit in RTJ.
It can't just be the age difference rearing its head; remember all those movies from the eighties (and even nineties) that you thought were bad-ass then but now realize were trite and shallow with little redeeming value? Well, the same can't be said for the original SW Trilogy; it simply stood the ultimate test of time. TPM doesn't even pass the test of "real-time"; I knew it sucked even as I watched it, must less reflected on it.
And to answer those who would insinuate that some of us naysayers don't even really like SW because we possess the capacity to criticize it, I ask you this: How much must a film truly blow for so many people (some of whom camped out for days to be first), all desperately wanting to really love this movie, to truthfully resign themselves to the fact that it sucked rather than just toe the line with the rest of the Lucas- fluffers. I would dare say a lot. Hey, even atheists would really like to believe in the afterlife (eternal happiness--can't beat that), but they simply cannot reconcile the need to lie to themselves in order to believe this possibility without any hard evidence. (How much longer before Lucas devotees start claiming they saw his face in the shape of their tortilla.) Just some food for thought. (Bad pun intended.) -
A thoughtful re-review on your part, Harry, one which touched many of the problems I had with Phantom Menace. However, unlike you, I found that in the end too many of the bad things ourweighed too many of the good things in the movie and wrecked it for me. I'll just skip over so many of the big elements already touched (pounded) upon by others (Jar-Jar, Lloyd's acting, the complete lack of heart and soul, etc) and just mention three little things that stopped my suspention of disbelief cold:
1) At one point in the Republican Assembly, it is announced that Amadala is the " democratically elected Queen of Naboo." Huh?!? Come again? Look, any planet that is stupid enough to *elect* a 14 year old girl to lead the whole planet *deserves* to be invaded. I could go on wondering why Lucas didn't just have a situation where she was forced into power at the death of her parents (since there was no sign of her 'rents anyway), but democratically elected? What part of the definition of Monarchy didn't Lucas get?
2) After all these years of waiting to see the Jedi in their prime, in charge as the upholders of all that is good and right, we discover they use the faunted powers of The Force...to cheat? In ANH, we can understand why Obi-Wan uses his powers to sneak past the evil Empire and manipulate situations to his advantage; in such trouble times one can easily argue the ends justify the means. Yet in TPM, we she Qui-Gon switching dice around, trying to pull Jedi-mind tricks, all to trick an arguably harmless character out of this or that. (Argue all you want about Qui-Gon being in a tight spot -
After "mesa love Jar Jar," were any of you expecting Harry to be HONEST with us and tell us what he REALLY thought? Come on, people!
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Hey Gomer, you make some good points, that Lucas wanted to show that anyone could go over to the Dark Side by making Anakin a good person. I guess the only response I have is this: I don't think that Anakin destroying the Pod would have made him evil or a loose cannon at all. Yes, I think he would've been a loose cannon if he had hurt a playmate during a game, but I don't think the same could be said for this incident. Basically, the pod race is a life and death situation. A lot of stress. Not much time to think. If Anakin had lashed out without thinking, without really knowing how to lash out at all, accessing a power he never really knew he had, then that could certainly be forgivable, couldn't it? To my way of thinking, if Lucas wanted to make Anakin a completely innocent little boy, then he must not have much experience with or memory of being a little boy at all...because take it from me, little boys are not innocent. Little boys steal. Little boys hit other little boys. They get angry and have fits...I see it every day in grocery stores and (unfortunately) movie theatres. Children more naturally give voice to their dark sides than any of us because they haven't been socialized yet. So wouldn't it be natural and terrifying for a boy with unusual powers to act up in that way? Would you blame the poor kid? Anakin would only be venting anger in a life and death situation, with FAR more provocation than a mere schoolyard scuffle, and without really understanding the nature of what he was doing. The only difference would be, when Anakin vents, he vents big. This would not make Anakin evil, in my opinion...just normal. What isn't normal, to my way of thinking, is that Anakin would be quite so noble and angelic as he was in TPM. Anyway, Gomer, I respect your opinion and enjoyed your post man.
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Yoda does not say 'I SEE great fear in you.' He 'senses' it. In other words, it is hidden and not apparent. If he was a badly treated slave, it would have been apparent. Secondly, the technology should give you the idea that Tatooine is a more advanced society. We can safely assume that if they can build hovering pod racers there, then they know the correlation between happiness and productivity as Henry Ford knew at the turn of the century.
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As if we didn't have enough bickering from the two camps (I HATE EP1 vs. I LOVE EP1) now Harry has to criticize the movie too.
Harry are you one of these fashionable reviewers now? It's in style to bash this movie and now you got your licks in too.
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A lot of things are wrong with The Phantom Menace. The biggest problem is the script. George used to be my hero when it came to story structure. He inspired me to study writing and drama and mythology and all of that stuff. That's what makes the suckiness of TPM all the more perplexing.
Lucas' first crime is telling instead of showing. The Queen's people are dying. Are they? I never saw one person get killed or even slapped around. A battle droid nudges Sio Bibble, I think.
Anakin has Jedi reflexes. Does he really? I guess it's hard to pilot a pod racer, but I never get the feeling that ever did anything that great. He repaired the pod in mid-air, but wouldn't all pilots need to be able to that?
None of the characters know what they are saying. Think about this: how many times in TPM does a character say something definitive and then retract it for no reason? Jar Jar suggests going to the Gungan City. The Jedi say "okay," but then Jar Jar changes his mind. Shmi says she dies every time Anakin races, but then a minute later she's insisting that it's only way.
Lucas took the magic out of everything. I'm not going to groan on about the midiclorians, even though they too are a mistake. But think of the Jedi Council. Two years ago, the idea of a Jedi council was awesome. But now think of the Council in TPM. The Jedi are supposed to be cool. They used to be. But how boring would it be to sit across from Ki-Adi Mundi, twiddling your thumbs all day. Mace Windu comes across as a pompous and petulant. His "Bring him before us, then," line makes me want to tell the Jedi council to go fuck itself. And Jedi Masters should all be experienced, cool old bastards who've seen a few things. The Jedi in the council all seem like exactly what they are, a bunch of extras with rubber ears and furry heads on and most them look under thirty years old. Does anyone really buy that these people and aliens are capable of Alec Guiness-quality Jedi work?
Darth Maul is wasted, as well as Obi-Wan. The Queen has no personality. If her and Qui-Gon could have argued more, if Qui-Gon could have talked down to Padme more, anything to make the relationships more interesting. Maybe Obi-Wan could have been more argumentative with Qui-Gon. Anything! But everyone just coasts along through the story never really engaging anyone, especially the audience.
Others have made the point about it doesn't seem plausible that Anakin is a slave. It doesn't jive. Watto is a jerk to him, but so are all bosses. His goodbye to his mother doesn't ring true either. It's as if the movie is using an emotional shorthand, saying, "we all know that it's hard to leave your mother when you're this age, so let John Williams' music supply the proper emotion for you and let's move on to Coruscant." I don't buy any of Shmi's actions. Lucas had no idea what he was doing when it came to writing Shmi's character. "My future is here." I just don't buy it!
One of the errors in the film I'm annoyed at most is that they brought Threepio back at all. He was wasted and so was R2. R2 ends up doing something everywhere he's dragged in the original trilogy. He cuts the gang down from the net in ROTJ, but in TPM, he's just tagging along for no purpose that serves the plot or story or anything. Seeing Threepio play third fiddle to Jar Jar was an insult, in a way, to fans of the original trilogy.
TPM lacks the simple, but strong narratives and charming surprises of the original trilogy with characters who are a tenth as enjoyable to watch. -
Harry...I hate to be so negative, but your reviews are mostly way off. I understand it is important to "see the film some other way", but if I have to start pretending I am 12 again, or look the other way just because this is Star Wars (or because its Kubrick- another one of your off reviews), I'm afraid you've missed the point of making a good movie.
Robocop 2 could be good if we took this approach. My feeling is, if Episode I were made by Michael Bay, you would trash it. But because it is part of an institution, you let it slide and give us the old "you are taking this too seriously" bullsh**.
Jar Jar and the weak script KILLED this movie. Even Gene Shalit hated it and he loves everything like you do.
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Interesting points Harry, but for me Star Wars is still dead. I just feel that it will never be the same again, yes even if the next two films are great; which I hope they are; the series will just never have the same magic that it once did. I'm with Harry; I'll be putting all my faith into Peter Jackson and his crew doing great things with The Lord Of The Rings series.
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READ HIS ENTRY...'NUFF SAID!!!!
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HE HAS TWO...READ THE ONE CALLED LAST ENTRY...IT'S A RIOT!
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I thought it was a Marmot...
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This is simple. The story needed work, the actors could have been better, and the special effects took center stage in this one. I love Star Wars too, but in yer heart you know this movie could have been so much more.
P.S. Am I the only one who is still pissed that Lucas decided to delay the annoucement of the DVD to ensure that all the fans purchased the VHS as well? Star Wars = Lucas Gold mine. -
Well get used to it, because there are many people who did not feel the same way about it as you do. I for one would have an opposite take from all the "flaws" you mentioned if you are sick of this, go somwhere where they are not talking about SW M-kay? Also, quit bitching about the DVD release. Why would it even concern you if the film was so bad? Anyone who bought the VHS and are now pissed because they are going to release the DVD in another year or so should shut the hell up. You knew it was coming, and instead of waiting til 2006, he is giving it to us as soon as he can. God, you guys all freaking asked for it, and now you are getting it. Fucking bunch of spoiled brats the lot of you.
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That is the point. Anakin is supposed to be unlike regular kids. He is supposed to be "Opie" nice. Maybe even better than that. The thing is, we all like to think of ourselves as the most caring selfess people there are, and for the audience to truly relate completely with Anakin, they have to see him as the ideal. Thanks for cinsidering my thoughts on the matter, I can understand where you are coming from as well. To the rest of you who were just plain let down, I say that you will change your tune in hindsight. You gotta give Lucas more time, he'll have that sheild down.
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I guess I wasn't the only one who had a problem with the pompous Jedi Knights up in their ivory tower twiddling their thumbs in those Lazy Boy Recliners or Mace Windu's depthless solemnity. "Guardians of Peace and Justice throughout the Old Republic"? If they were, they would be OFF of their asses making shishkabob of greasy little characters like Watto and other slavers in the Outer Rim planets liberating all the slaves or empowering the downtrodden. That Qui-Gonn did not find a way to or even make an attempt to liberate Shmi along with Anakin was nothing more than LAZY storytelling, and a LAZY plot device to bring them back to Tatooine in the next films (uh, here's an idea... how about Qui-Gonn at least makes an effort but he is overwhelmed by forces loyal to Watto or Jabba and he barely escapes with his own life along with Anakin's, setting the stage for a report to the Jedi Council regarding the slave situation and setting up for a return to deal with the problem later? Now THAT's drama... He doesn't even mention it to Yoda or the council for Christ's sake !!!!) Convenient that "Jedi Mind Tricks" never work when there's no other way to block a Jedi's powers isn't it? (Recycled from Luke's experience with Jabba in ROTJ)... Listen up. I might not be where Lucas is in this industry, but the classic trilogy did inspire me to learn the craft of writing and get to where I am now working in film. The script of TPM was very lazy and unfocused, the few moments of intrigue it had were all related to Palpatine's power play (hence the title) and it just seems such a shame that the framework for it was not more polished or inspired or god damn it, MYTHICAL. I remember seeing interviews with Mr. Lucas in the 80's on PBS "Making of Star Wars" specials emphasizing that the effects are supposed to serve the story, not vice-versa. It seems something got lost on the way. I think Lucas is a brilliant visionary when it comes to setting the stage and pioneering the digital "tapestry", but that tapestry, while being remarkable eye candy, in the hands of one who is not focusing on directing actors and drama, becomes soulless. He needs to team up with equally strong associates who create great films through collaboration. These films need to be directed by the Irvin Kirshners and scripted by the Larry Kasdans who really took the foundations and helped flesh out things even more. Or guided by co-producers like Gary Kurtz and not yes men who brown nose ad-infinitum to keep their jobs and remain part of the machine. Go watch the duel in TESB or ROTJ again and see what I mean and you will understand the power of good conflict and storytelling.
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Part of what makes it so cool about Kenobi taking it upon himself to train Anakin IS his recklessness -- he is willing to train Anakin to honor his dead master DESPITE the fact that everyone (including himself at one point) thinks he's dangerous! To me, this is one of the defining moments of EP1 where Obi-Wan tells Yoda, point blank, he will DEFY THE COUNCIL if necessary to train the boy. Now THAT is powerful stuff. However, intercutting the droid/gungan battle with the jedi/sith battle is what deflated it, IMHO. The droid/gungan battle was relatively pointless, except that they drew the main TF force out of Theed. They could've shown the brave gungans marching off into battle, then the jedi/sith battle, and ended the gungan fight AFTER Obi-Wan's defeat of Maul and showed the scene where Tarpals and Jar Jar are cornered. Simple. All of that CGI "fluff" was simply not necessary.
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The bitching isn't gonna stop. But Harry's was the best thought out reappraisal of the film that Ive yet heard. And he's right about Jar-Jar. Lucas NEVER does things without a reason and Jar-Jar will, I believe, prove that. In 10 yrs times all the moaners will think of Jar-Jar with the same fuzzy feeling as Chewie. I think the problem with a lot of people is that they expected a film that was made for them (28-40yr olds) AND George had the nerve to make a kids film. But guess what folks, the first one was a kids film too!!! I haven't met a kid yet who didn't love the movie, Jar-Jar is their favorite charector as well. I have theory, If you want an honest opinion about anything, ask a kid. I've asked my little brother and all of hisfriends about the movie and they all loved it. Q.E.D.
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I agree with every last word you said. It is VALID critism of a film, as it should be.
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This new review is O.K , but I really cannot believe that anyone above the age of 12 can like Jar Jar F#*king Binks . When I first saw the film I loved it , I didn't really mind the presence of jar jar because there was so much else to get excited about ,
( lightsaber battles , return of characters such as R2-D2 ) but now when I watch it , being calmer after the hype , I cannot help being majorly p**sed off with the gungan in question . (and for that matter Boss Nass)The racial stereotype of jar jar is a particularly irritating one and he seems to have to trip over something or stick out his tongue in every scene . Don't get me wrong , I'm a huge Star Wars fan , I enjoyed much about TPM , but jar jar's involovment and Portman's flat acting were blemishes in an otherwise exilarating experience. -
I must admit, you have a point. Consider, though, that the Backstreet Boys is just a passing fad. (Even now I heard they're breaking up). As far as Batman Forever, it wasn't that bad, not like Batman and Robin would be. Batman Forever had some character development and at times the movie took itself seriously (But when Jim Carrey or a nippled rubber chestpiece was flashed in our faces, that pretty much stopped.) The Phantom Menace ranked number two behind Titanic. Could marketing and overhype (Most of which was brought on by the media, not Lucasfilm or Twentieth Century Fox)really have brought it to that level? It certainly didn't for Godzilla.
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1) Portman's "bad" acting. As the Queen, her monotone voice and lack of expression were necessary so that her duplicate could imitate her with few questions asked. She was much more passionate as Padme. 2) Threepio and Artoo are there with Kenobi at the beginning, and he fails to recognize them later in ANH. Well, this one is easy. By the end of EP3, the droids are both mindwiped BY Kenobi to protect the whereabouts of the twins. Kenobi in ANH is playing coy when he says "I don't remember owning a droid". Well, he didn't -- it was Amidala's. 3) Shmi's desire to stay on Tattoine, and Qui-Gon's lack of desire to free her. Qui-Gon says, "We're not here to free slaves." I also thought this sounded quite bogus initially, but it sets up the jedi as FLAWED -- and we all know they get paid for that in spades by the time ANH rolls around. In regards to Shmi, there are hints all throughout the OT that the Force is hereditary in the Skywalker family. She senses through the Force that she is not meant to join them. Please fill free to give me any other plotholes, and I will gladly plug them for you. The problem w/ the film was pacing, dialogue and characterization.
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I know an easier way to fill the gaping plot holes that plague the series.
There is no holy "Star Wars" bible that the series was laid out in from the very beginning in a "Raiders of the Lost Ark" warehouse somewhere. Otherwise it wouldn't have taken 20 years to get down to writing Episode One.
Lucas is making it all up as he goes, which is why he's faced with these glaring plot holes that compromise credibility issues.
Simple as that.
It actually makes me even more uneasy.
I wish to God he had retained his relationship with Gary Kurtz.
For more insight, check out this link, straight from the horses mouth.
THE ORIGINAL STAR WARS PRODUCER SPEAKS:
http://www.filmthreat.com/Interviews.asp?File=InterviewsOne.asp&Id=8
Nitestar -
there was just so high expectations
it could have nevr ever have met expectations -
May 17, 2000 6:58:32 PM CDT
I wonder how much worse TPM would have had to been in order to s
by robothalo
Seriously, the movie was terrible and everyone should have known it from the underwhelming opening - when Obi and Qui Gon were on the ship and they started reflecting shit off their lightsabers. The movie lacked the wonderment and the confidence inherent in the other movies. The other films in the series made you believe in what was going on. The new film replaced that trait with CGI overload. Goddamn, Lucas, does every scene have to have a majestic backdrop? Lucas has great technology to utilize in his films, he just doesn't know how to incorporate that technology well. Actually, all the CGI would have been forgivable had the story been any good. And for all you folks that are proposing that expectations were to high - screw that. Do you think if this movie was good, if it was challenging, if it was fitting front matter to what Lucas and Co previously created, that there would be all this complaining? Lucas lost faith in the audience. Must have. He pandered, compromised the world that he friggin' created. In the old movies, the creatures that inhabited the worlds were respected. In TPM, they are funny-funnies, bozos. Check out the sandpeople of the first movie and compare them with their cameo in the last film. Pure spectacle. Speaking of the countless cameos, why turn Star Wars into goddamn Where's Waldo? Also, anyone who sticks up for Jar-Jar should be forced to watch a Ewok/Jar Jar X-mas special. He was an annoyance and had no place in a movie that is supposed to set up one of the coolest movie trilogies of all time. In conclusion, the movie sucked. Folks that think it will be remembered are right. However, it will be remembered as a blemish. And if the next two movies are as poor or [god forbid] worse, they may even start to stink up the image of the first three.
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I think that technology can be a detriment when it is overused. CGI should be a tool for enhancement -- if you're truly going to try to create another world. Even the best CGI is still pretty obvious unless hidden by mixing with real effects. If you're making an all-CGI film, then of course anything goes.
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Please, please people let me help you understand how all this shit be seeping through a rubberband. First of all, George Lucas a no-good, lucky-ass, kiddie-pandering piece of shiite. Do you think that there is a reason that he's only directed four goddamn movies in nearly thirty years. Kubrick was more prolific than he is for godsakes. He has no concept of how to direct an involving and interesting drama. Graffiti was superficial at best with two other writers to boot. The OG SW was the least involving emotionally of the three. TPM was GL mad with ego driven power. HE WON'T LISTEN. The next ep will probably suck. My expectations will be low so who gives a shit. If you id what the subject quote is from you deserve a million extra credit points.
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Just wanna to say that in the novel, there are quite a few lines describing Anakin seeing a dark image figure in his nightware. Though I wonder whether it is the creation of the writer or Lucas, this boy is not really blank as we found on screen. On the other hand, Jar jar did have a few dialogues, also in the novel, which showed that he (!) is not as dumb as we noticed. BTW, if the above said stuffs were created by Lucas and he ripped them off from the movie, I feel sorry of such change. Like other SW fans, I do expect Lucas will give a great shot in the Ep2 and Ep3. But again, please respect the characters we loved/hated in the old trilogy.
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I felt compelled to watch it again on video, to do the same thing harry has done here, which is watch it away from the hype. And i was amazed at how different it felt right from the start. But then it started to happen - that's right: what we all know as the worst opening 30 minutes of any movie ever. And after that shitpile, we are greeted with Boss Nass, WHO DOES THAT FUCKING CLICKING MOTHERFUCKING PIECE OF SHIT ANNOYING FUCKING TALKING THING. i nearly broke the tape in two when i saw that again. after finishing the movie, it is obvious that the phantom menace is really, really plain BAD. BAD like HOWARD THE DUCK, BAD like U-571, BAD like WING COMMANDER. ------ I think this particluar simpsons quote is quite relevent: "WORST EPISODE EVER!" - comic store guy.
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Never in the history of film-making has a director ever had it as good as George Lucas had it, as he set off to make -
May 17, 2000 8:31:24 PM CDT
WHY A EPISODE 1 REVIEW A YEAR LATER? STARWARS EPISODE 1 = WEB T
by []d[][]v[][]d
Starwars news brings more WEB TRAFFIC to Ain't it Cool, not Euro Aicn, Third World AICN (Latin America and Asia AICN). The summer of 2000, in fact the year 2000, has no major blockbusters for FANBOYZ/FANGIRLZ. Instead we are faced with catshit movies of the ilk GODZILLA, ID4, MEN IN BLACK and other EMMERICH/DEVLIN pigshit. EPISODE I is cool and with the summer box office coming up all we have to look foward to is MI:2(Tom Cruise must die for Cocktail and Days of Thunder), Chicken Run(pigshit), and XMEN(even worse than the FOX TV movie). Hence more STARWARS "news" at AICN.COM. Let's face America, AMERICA WANTS NO MORE TOM CRUISE MOVIES, NO MORE JOHN TRAVOLTA MOVIES, NO MORE MOVIES WITH "FRIENDS" in them. In closing I would like to say I would like to hump Britney Spears and Mandy Moore.
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May 17, 2000 8:36:01 PM CDT
Interesting, but I disagree with you about Anakins back story
by samthelion
I mean, I think the whole point is that the worst is yet to come. Anakin's made the best out of being a slave b/c he's such a tough little kid. His mom is a good person. All the pieces are there for him to be a great jedi. That's the lure of the dark side of the force, IMHO, that it can grab somebody as "tough" as Anakin. So I guess I'm one of those "I cant wait till it gets all dark and shit" guys. But I had no problem with that, although Jake Lloyd did say yippee way too much. Right on about the dialects though. Good suggestions, Lucas should be listening.
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I mostly agree with this. I've come to appreciate Jar Jar and laugh at him because he is definitely geared towards kids. My small complaint with TPM is the underuse of all the good actors and actresses, namely Ewan McGregor and Natalie Portman. I almost wish that Mr. Lucas would defer to a different director for the next one, like he did for "Empire", but I still have high hopes for more complexity in Episode 2. As for Anakin's childhood, I think his character will be tainted plenty in #2. I couldn't imagine George Lucas having psycho Anakin in #1. He wanted us to have fun!
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May 17, 2000 9:59:45 PM CDT
And when Jar Jar's not around, everyone should always be asking,
by lshb
I dream that he dies on the way back to his home planet.
Oh, and feel free to write off hatred of Jar Jar as some sort of transferred self-loathing of innumerable internet 'fan-boys'. However, does that really excuse your insane love for a CGI algorithm intentionally and admittedly marketed only at 4-6 year olds? As a mental exercise, watch TPM and try to block Jar Jar out of every scene..the film becomes fun, bordering on fairly good. Yes, it's a hard exercise what with the tripping and the squawking and the flailing and the lisping and the shit-stepping and the dreadfully predictable slapstick, but it'll be invaluable should Ep 2 prove just as lackwit intensive. -
Some good points raised by Harry. Like many of the disappointed posters here, I was left with a completely non-plussed feeling when I left the theatre. One of the film's biggest sins is that it's so *forgettable.* Granted, I've only seen it once, but I can't really remember anything outstanding from it, other than maybe the light sabre duel at the end. But I've seen plenty of other films just once, and can remember them well, just not so with TPM. And I continue to maintain, as have many others, that the script was just so weak. No characters to empaphize or root for, bland dialogue, an episodic structure, lots of boring fanboy stuff like the midi-chondrion crap and that interstellar political intrigue. And believe it or not, I think this film would have been beter, and the trilogy too, if the focus WASN'T so much on Anakin. We all know he's gonna be seduced by the Dark Side, do some evil shit, and become Vader. Why not surprise audiences by having more focus on Obi Wan and the Queen and the other characters, characters we really know nothing about. Of course, I'm not saying relegate Anakin completely to the sidelines; but we do know what his outcome is, just not the details. I was kind of hoping Neeson's character would be around, that Lucas would slyly be telling a story of his failings, in addition to Vader's story. Oh well. As for Jar Jar and him eventually knowing what "death and pain" are about, Jesus, I hope you're right, Harry. I hope Jar Jar learns his lesson quick (as in, Anakin activating his light sabre, which is strategically placed near Jar Jar's rectum). Sorry, Harry, but Mr. Binks has NO potential as a serious character. When I saw the movie that afternoon last year, it was full of kids; NOT ONE laughed during his so-called "hilarious antics."
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You want to know why the Jedi council was sitting on their asses throughout the movie, instead of whupping ass on Watto and the otheer TPM evils? Because they had become mired in the same corruption that had affected the Republic. Perhaps the movie was too subtle for some folks. (BTW - this comes from Space.com - read it and think).
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Why are there so many Jedi in the Old Republic? The answer is simple: increasing market share.
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In The Phantom Menace, "the Jedi" is not simply an abstraction. For all its religious overtones, the Order is an organization like any other, subject to historical forces and, if we watch the film's Council scenes carefully, ideological dissent.
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Episode One starts right up with two Jedi knights illegally interfering in the Republic's internal affairs. Although Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi claim to be impartial ambassadors, the Neimodian Trade Federation has a point: the loyalties of the Jedi lie with a specific faction in the Senate, that of Chancellor Valorum.
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The Council sent Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to "meddle" in the blockade of Naboo.
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Any organization without opposition inevitably slides into decadence, tyranny or both. By the start of The Phantom Menace, the Jedi are by no means tyrannical, but they do seem to be on the road to decadence.
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The Council -- supposedly the most enlightened humanoids in the galaxy -- sits within the Order's enormous tower on Coruscant, keeping themselves at a physical and a philosophical remove from the simple folk of the galaxy.
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The Jedi turn a blind eye to the existence of organized slavery on the Republic's borders until it suits the immediate tactical interests of Qui-Gon Jinn, and even then it doesn't look likely that the Council will work to free the slaves of Tatooine and other planets. It's none of their affair.
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Perhaps the rules of the Republic prohibit it. But should secular rules constrain agents of the Force from putting an end to suffering?
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If not for the fact that the Council felt the hand of the Sith in the Naboo affair, would Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan even been allowed to return to the planet? Hints of atrocities -- "our people are dying, senator" -- are too strong to discount. And yet the Jedi only get involved in order to ferret out signs of the Council's shadowy counterparts, the rival religion, the Dark Side.
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Complacency of this magnitude carries with it the seeds of downfall.
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By the time members of the Council come face to face with the true enemy -- in the person of Palpatine -- they are too intent on seeing evidence of the Sith to recognize it when they find it. The Phantom Menace himself escapes, unnoticed while Yoda and Mace Windu pontificate about the nature of the Sith Way.
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If you spend your life retreating from the people and things you have discarded as belonging to "the Dark Side," how will you recognize them when circumstances force you out of your ivory tower?
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The Force doesn't reward us for trying too hard. It comes to our aid when we see things for what they are.
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As such, it's only natural that the Sith should rise to take advantage of a Jedi order in decline. The Force seeks "balance," as Mace Windu wistfully recites.
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If Shmi Skywalker is telling the truth, the midichlorians -- particles of the Force or whatever they are - spontaneously created Anakin as their champion. This suggests that the Star Wars Saga, Anakin's inevitable fall and redemption, may be less a matter of seduction than destiny, perhaps even basic biology.
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In Anakin's case the road to Sithdom isn't something that just happens; it is a virus.
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The path to the Dark Side is said to be easier than the Jedi way, closer to adult thought patterns and the everyday world. Sith masters don't have the luxury of stealing Force-talented children from their families -- the Sith spent centuries one step ahead of the Jedi, and caring for a baby would be a severe impediment on the run.
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Although the idea of Darth Sidious with a baby Darth Maul on his back has a certain bizarre charm, it probably didn't happen that way.
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Instead, if Palpatine/Sidious is any indication, the Sith are perfectly willing to take apprentices from the adult world. In direct contrast, the Jedi Council turns even the most Force-talented non-toddler away as "too old," too tainted by the secular world outside the Jedi lifestyle.
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Is the outside world contradictory to Jedi philosophy and practice? Should it be? Does the Force surround and penetrate all things, or just those bits "pure" enough to satisfy the Council's rarefied tastes?
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Sith apprentices serve one master. The ease of Sith power lies in the fact that it is divorced from the formalized Jedi system. In contrast, Jedi training not only teaches power but - no matter how subtly or well-intentioned -- reinforces the rules and precepts of the Jedi order.
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Jedi indoctrination demands strong teachers. Unfortunately, history will prove that Obi-Wan is not a good teacher.
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Kenobi has just graduated to full-fledged knighthood himself when he takes Anakin as his apprentice. He isn't up to the challenge of training a student whose midichlorian levels put even Master Yoda to shame, and his rash promise will ultimately doom the Jedi.
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Why, then, does the Council allow Kenobi to proceed with Anakin's training? Perhaps they expect him to fail.
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Yoda never wanted to train Anakin in the first place, arguing (perhaps ingenuously) that the boy was "too old," too tainted by the emotions and personal attachments of life outside the Jedi, despite all those high midichlorian levels and ESP tests.
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From Yoda's point of view, both Kenobi and Skywalker tainted as well by their contact with the maverick Qui-Gon. As such, it is easy to imagine that Yoda approved the training expecting that a weak teacher will prevent Anakin from achieving his full potential.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
There is, after all, a controlling authority at the center of the Jedi web. We see it in Mace Windu's nervous sidelong glances, and in the awed tones with which young Obi-Wan refers to Anakin's midichlorian levels. Ironically, the being pulling the strings of Jedi and Senator alike is himself a puppet, or rather, a Muppet: Yoda.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Qui-Gon tells Shmi Skywalker that the Jedi would have identified Anakin early if the boy had lived in the Republic. As any good cult leader knows, young minds are easier to mold to the cause of blind devotion, having no strong outside connections or habit of objective thought.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Yoda rejects Anakin -- and later tries to reject Luke - because he claims the boy is too old to begin the training. Nonetheless, both candidates become capable Force users in their own right. Is the age problem a question of fitness, or control?
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Having grown up outside the Republic's sphere of influence, Anakin missed out on the requisite pro-Jedi indoctrination during his formative years. He threatens the Jedi by having a mind of his own. Ironically -- is there ever "irony" where the Force is concerned? -- it is this mind that destroys the Order.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Qui-Gon Jinn is a known malcontent. He has a history of defying the Council, and refuses to join it himself. When he takes the boy out of slavery in blatant disregard of both Jedi rules and Republican diplomacy, is he acting of his own accord, or are the midichlorians working through him to bring down the Council?
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Whether he is a true reformer or merely the agent of a higher power, Qui-Gon goes to his death unshriven by the Jedi sacraments. His body remains material. He does not disappear.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
The midichlorians go on to guide their immaculately conceived pawn into breaking the Jedi stranglehold on the galaxy; the Force, seeking balance, dismantles the outmoded garment of the Jedi Order.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Unfortunately, in the short run, this process of restoring balance to the Force operates on a galactic scale, causing immense dislocation and the brief emergence of Palpatine's tyrannical Empire.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
The fall of the Jedi is only the first half of this cosmic balancing equation. Anakin's pivotal role doesn't end with the elimination of the Jedi order -- it takes years to restore the balance of the Force.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Luke closes the circle of Yoda's complicity by agreeing to confront Vader. When he redeems Anakin, and his father kills the Emperor, Luke stands as the last of the Jedi. Though he is now a master by default, Luke doesn't have Yoda's experience or ideology. He can rebuild the Jedi order, but his knights will be less powerful, and are unlikely to slip back into decadence for some time.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Meanwhile, the Force endures, now unencumbered by the rift between Sith and Jedi, or by the restrictions the Jedi Council imposed on its universal nature. The true balance of the Force is a level playing field free of manipulation by any powerful leader, be it an Emperor or a Muppet. The nature of the Force is to penetrate all things -- Dark and otherwise, Sith and Jedi, profane and sacred alike.
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Did anyone else notice that one frame of the new "Harry getting punched" logo says "bloated sellout?
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May 17, 2000 10:26:35 PM CDT
Why if you hate it so much is TPM the most talked about subject
by brian 2000
Really, you guys spends soooo much time talking about TPM. If you hate it so much why say THE SAME THING in every talkback about SW there is. Just drop the subject TPM is over with lets talk about Ep. II
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Dark times for Jar-Jar? Well, it's this fan's opinion while seeing Jar-Jar suffer would be most enjoyable, never seeing him again would be more enjoyable still.
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I like TPM. I'll say that. It's not a great film, and it will certainly be the worst of the six when all is said and done. (I'm completely baffled as to all the ROtJ hating going on. It was easily a much better film than TPM.) But I can't help but like the darn thing. When I first saw it (one of those pioneering first show at midnight peoples, thank you thank you), I left feeling somewhat unsatisfied. It just didn't seem to have a Star Wars feel to it, which bugged me more than anything. Even more than all the screen time devoted to Jar Jar. But I went back and saw it again at the theater and that second time it felt more like a Star Wars film. The pacing, the characters, the settings. All of it. It's still flawed, though. First and foremost, I'm in the annoyed by Jar Jar camp. Not that I think he shouldn't have been in the film. I just think they spent way too much time on him and the Gungan city scenes were pointless. He could have been much more effective in a Chewie roll. Always there but not necessarily always heard or focused on. The next thing that bothered me was that there was no clear enemy. What held the first three together was that there was a definite enemy presence. A clear evil to work against. The Trade Federation never felt like much of threat to themselves let alone anyone else. The Battle Droids were too frickin' slapsticky. The "Roger Roger" thing and what the hell was with the one trying to pull off humor in the Naboo bay? "Coruscant. Doesn't compute. I'm gonna have to see some - You're under arrest!" HUH? And Sidious was hidden but perhaps too much so. You never really felt that he was this "phantom menace" pulling the strings on things. He just seemed to be there, snarling on occasion. Which watered down even more the effectiveness of Darth Maul. One of the worst scenes in the film (and a clear representation of the dialogue problems) is when Sidious introduces Maul. He says something tacky like "it may be a problem for you to deal with it but not for a Sith. This is my apprentice Darth Maul." Would have been more effective if he just said I'm dealing with it, then cut to him having a discussion with Maul. But that was the general feeling of the film. That it was, indeed, an introduction. Everyone was brought it by someone else saying "Whoever, meet This Guy." Or "Stupid this is Someone Else." A big rule of film and screenwriting is to show what is happening. It is a visual medium. Don't have everyone explain everything. But perhaps the biggest flaw of the film doesn't lie in the film, the characters, the screenplay or George Lucas at all. I think the biggest problem I had with the film was John Williams' score. John Williams' music is amazing. He is the granddaddy of film music. No one has created more instantly identifiable or indelible music as he has. Jaws, ET, Superman, Jurassic Park. And perhaps the one he will always been most known for, the score to Star Wars. The music for each of the first three films was perfect. It fit the scenes and fit (and created) the moods. The title theme, the Imperial March (which was still best used in an episode of The Simpson where they cut to Mr. Burns office), Luke's theme on Tatooine, Luke & Leia's song from Jedi, the love theme for Han and Leia from Empire (still my favorite). All of these had amazing depth and helped the movies along. In TPM, Williams' score seemed lazy and lost. It was way too low-key, shoved almost to the very background where it added nothing to a scene. The most blatant example was when Anakin blows up the droid command ship and you can hear the same song from when Luke takes out the Death Star in ANH. But its practically muted behind all the sound effects and doesn't fit with Anakin accidently blowing the ship up. In the original when you heard that song, you could feel something swell up inside of you. A giddy joy and pride for what Luke had accomplished. It seems like they tried to do the same here but only half-heartedly so. Yeah, Duel of the Fates was okay, but it didn't work with the visuals. Didn't really have that emotional connection to the Gungans fighting the droids like we did with the fighters going against the Death Star and Biggs biting it or even the Ewoks battling the Storm Troopers and Chicken Walkers. That was the biggest disappointment of the film for me. I liked the film but I love the original trilogy. Despite the hype, that's what I wanted to feel when I left the theater after TPM. I truly hope that's what I feel leaving the theater after Episode II.
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We can analyze the HELL out of every little element, every little concept, every single performance, but the real failings of TPM was 2 things...non-cohesive story structure and underdeveloped (as well as underperformed) characters! These two factors were ever present in ALL 3 prior films (yes, even in Jedi!), regardless how childish they could be or how mature. The Star Wars films of old were made to be classics for many future generations, a modern mythology of celluloid. They were filled with wonderful characters right out of Hollywoods golden age, they worked on ALL ages then and now...every year I watch them at least once and NEVER tire, never feel as though I'm 'too old'! Perhaps my youth was, in part, why I was so in love with these films...but good story telling has NO age requirements, and to dismiss a films flaws by saying it was aimed at a younger crowd is wrong. This is my opinion.
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May 17, 2000 11:02:57 PM CDT
hopefully it won't be too low in the talkbacks to read this poin
by autolycus
loved the re-review, many good points, but while I agree with the fact that anakin's character/story wasn't exactly a perfect setup I think that having a back story of endless abuse would have been stereotypical. First off the way i see it is that it will be cool to see him go "dark" but the fact of the matter is that he doesn't just become dark he must be stongly light first and is also at the end of ROTJ. Point: It is brought up in EP1 that there's the possibility that he's to "bring balance to the force" and that's EXACTLY what he does. He is the one figure in the history of jedi that is responsible for the deaths of not only of the good jedi but also destroyed and sith too, starting a new era of the force. I just feel that the use of genocide and pure evil are not the correct terms for the later anakin. He is not pure evil......he is a cross between good and evil, the only possible character make-up for someone to both become great evil AND a great hero. So i think by putting him in abusive situations with the mother or a facination of the darkside sets the saga up that he falls into an evil trap to reign in horror, but he's incrediably balanced, coming from a (somewhat) balanced background, only to fulfil a prophecy of balancing the force(death to all good and bad jedi).
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Too many posts to read thru first, which is what I usually like to do before I add my own 2c worth
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Here's a thought: anybody remember how you found out that the guy in ESB, yknow the one in the cool armor with the jetpack, was named Boba Fett? Ill tell ya how. You looked on the box that his action figure came in after the flick came out. Thats because no one said his name in the movie. Now his name was in the ESB script before the movie was made but there was no need for any of the characters in the movie to call him by his name so they didnt. Anybody remember the 1st time we saw Maul in TPM? " This is my apprentice...Darth Maul" or, once more "I'm sending my apprentice...Darth Maul" Hell why not "this is my apprentice ...Darth Maul, a registered trademark of Lucasfilms, copyright 1999, all rights reserved, available at your local Walmart for only $9.95." Good or bad its more about the merchandising than it used to be.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Harry,
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong....The horror stroy of Anakin is not that he was a beaten, abused child that had no love that went bad. That would have been to easy...to pat. Too adult
He has a hard life, but he belives that people should help eachother out. (Just because a slave kid gets to do nifty things, he still is a slave.) He has a loving mother, who tried to raise him right. He has dreams of traveling to the stars. He becomes a hero. He achieves more in his short time (Builds droids, First human to win pod race-saves Naboo)
Some how, he goes bad.
And thats the true journey.
Remember folks-this is the first episode of the ENTIRE series. Not just the next two.
And yes-it was for kids...Just like the original one was for us.
Jake LLoyed was okay-not the greatest-but they could have done better -
I can't understand how you people are still bashing TPM. Can't you get on with your lives and find something better to do? Why don't you go bash Battlefield Earth. That movie is a fucking piece of shit and every critic in this country is bashing it. But as far as this TPM bashing goes, get on with your fucking lives. And you, HARRY IS FAT, you fucking cock-smoker. You said, and I quote, "Episode 1 is a piece of shit and anyone who liked it is a fucking moron." Well I got one thing for ya, and that's a big fuck you from me and all the other billions of people that saw TPM, loved it and went to see it again and again and again and again. Let me repeat what I said and in big bold letters so you won't miss it you fucking pathetic shrimp-dicked fucking jag-off. You ready? Here it is. FUCK YOU!!!!
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was the insane notion that the SW universe actually still belongs to him. WRONG! Flesh-eating copyright attorneys be damned! Its like one of those fucked up made-for-tv flicks on lifetime where a parent loses custody of their darling little girl and the adoptive parents nurture and care for her for years, then in walks her biological father, all jacked up on crank and cheap gin, he takes the kid and next thing you know turns her into a meth-whore shaking her money-maker out on Sunset blvd. We are those adoptive parents. George had his thumb up his ass for 16 yrs and we took the reigns. George isnt our leader, He's our bitch. It aint about his vision. It aint about 15 minutes of cgi winston cup racing just to satisfy his unrealized dream of "drivin' fast and turnin' left" for a living. We're the ones who memorized lines of dialogue, were the ones who bought the comics and staved off the urge to defect to Star Trek. We're the geeks and fanboys who kept this franchise alive for those 16 years, (and yes, if youre reading this youve got a little geek in you, like it or not)so I say take back our kid, look George in the eye and say " Listten you bloated, dead-eyed, goiter-sportin, motherfucker. Iwant mandelorean armor, limb-hacking cyborgs, and wise-ass corellian smuggler's by '02 and dont try to get creative unless you run it by ME first"!! That said I'll be in line for E2 regardless, and if it sucks I'll only see it 8 times :)
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First off, S. Bisley, shut the fuck up.
I seem to recall a scene was cut which showed Anakin using the force uncontrollably to send a kid back into a wall. This would have been a good foreshadowing device. I wish it had been left in. I thought Jake Lloyd was pretty lame from an acting point of view. I hated just about every line he spewed. As for Jar Jar, I don't hate him, but I don't want another 2 hrs of him either. Since 10 years will have passed in Ep.2 maybe he could be different. He could have beaten his clumsiness, hardened up a bit, learned how to speak more clearly, or maybe just die. I have faith in the dark visions that lie ahead. -
Try watching "Phantom" with the sound turned off. It's easier to enjoy the fantastic visuals while ignoring the inane and childish dialogue. Even that bitch Jar Jar is bearable without sound.
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first< i've only read a couple of talkbacks tonite. why? cause you guys always say the same things. next, to the gent who suggested anakin kill sebulba in the race, that would have been too much. and as for your ob1 obsevation, you were not paying attention. After being knocked into the pit, ob1 does calm himself visibly and then uses the force to defeat maul. and its that much more powerful. remember, a jedi always uses the force for defense, never attack. and as for the rest of you dorks, whats more plausible, a giant hungry fish, or a gigantic slug camping out in the middle of an asteroid field. forget it it was a retorical question
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Something tells me if George was reading the talkback and saw what Space.com had said, he'd scratch his head and then struck with the logic of that speculation say "YEAH!!!! I meant to do that!"
It's all Monday morning quarterbacking though. Qui-Gonn's failing to say or make any attempts in the script make him a much less noble character, and I don't think that was George's intention. -
As for the video...Its twenty bucks man! Three years of no movie over twenty bucks?! Hell I blew twenty bucks on Labirynth vhs because I wasn't getting a dvd player for another month and I wanted to see it THAT weekend.
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I'd like to begin with saying I respect everyone and their right to their own opinions. If gomer would look at what he has said, the logic of it is quite flawed. More or less the response to my Phantom Menace Bashing was,"I don't like your comment so go away." followed by," If you don't like the film, you cannot comment on the devious marketing techniques of Lucas." My personal situation with the VHS vs. DVD release was that my Birthday was near the release of the VHS and although I informed all my cheese head family and friends that I wanted the DVD later and not to purchase this VHS, of course someone took it upon themselves to provide me with a Widescreen copy VHS. Mere days later Lucas announces that he has changed his mind and will up the release date by years. Doh! Please don't take away my right as a consumer to flame on when there is such a blatant abuse of the core fan base. If people on this board are not allowed to piss and moan a little bit, Harry would have to talk to himself...Doobie Doobie Doo.
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I gotta tell you man, you have written the review that I most agree with. I loved this movie...I watched it with the frame of mind that there is more to come, that the whole story is yet to be told. I did not hate Jar-Jar unlike most of the people here. So what if he is a little annoying? All C-3PO did in the original three was complain and annoy. Not to say that I didn't enjoy it. I guess I saw him through a different frame of mind. As to the aliens speaking english...well...I guess it just made the film easier to follow to some people but I see your point that they should have had their own language. All that talk about how TPM was politically incorrect and poked fun at certain ethnic groups is utter bullshit. It's a movie people....not a social commentary. Besides political correctness is overrated in my opinion. Regarding the casting of Anaking being wrong I don't know about that...I though he did a decent job of protraying someone with an established history. And no I didn't think he needed any pain inflicted on his body in order for us to see that hecould become the monster that he will ultimately be. There is a lot to be said about parental separation and what it can do to a child. He was brave and he was wonderful and he was loved. Anakin is wise and having been a slave all of his life he as to be to survive. Why must he be tortured to become Darth Vader? We've yet to see what turns him against the force to understand fully how a child so gifted and loving can take a turn so drastic. That's my take on it...'till next time.
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For the love of Il
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I can't believe that any Star Wars fan could hate TPM. Disappointment, yes, but hate? We all know where that leads. Still, at least we won't have to be around all you whining losers when Episode II comes out. Although I bet by 2005 a lot of these bashers will be singing a different tune.
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TPM is better than Jedi, although they both have two unarguably cool scenes (podrace/lightsaber duel and speeder bike chase/space battle). The racism thing is really tired. If you think a blue, big-nosed flying alien is a Jewish stereotype, you're the racist. And I think the main reason most people didn't like TPM is because the plot was way above their heads. Shit, do any of you even remember Godzilla? TPM had 100 times the plot and emotion of that film, just like Lucas promised. End communication.
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One thing I found hilarious about TPM was the whole midichlorian aspect that was introduced. Sitting in the darkened theater, the first thing to cross my mind when midichlorians popped up was "Great. Looks like Lucas has turned Star Wars into Dragonball Z."
Can you imagine a fight between Obi Wan and Anakin in EP3 where Obi Wan goes,
"You will never defeat me! My midichlorian level is at twenty thousand!!"
To which Anakin promptly responds,
"Oh yeah!? Well MY midichlorian level is at THIRTY thousand!!"
and then Obi Wan says,
"Oh yeah!? Well MY midichlorian level is at thirty thousand and ONE now since I used my Ultra-l33t Jedi Blazing Inferno Powerup Move!"
*sigh* -
Liked TPM even with it's faults, even though some were definitely cringeworthy ('I built a protocol droid to help out mom'). And I think both Dangernaut and Desslok made good points.
Lucas seemed to have 'Roddenberryism' when making TPM. What is Roddenberryism? A willingness to sacrifice things that would make it better because they don't fit with his 'vision'.
Compare Star Trek:TOS with the first season of TNG. What made TOS great? Interpersonal conflicts!!!! What did Gene FORBID on TNG? You guessed it. And everything on TNG (in the beginning) had to be PERFECT if it was Federation related (even the synthahol martini's).
What DEFINITELY would have made TPM better? A Han Solo type cynic. But a cynic would not have fit, since cynic's develop over time, and everything (including the slaves lives) was far too good for far too long for that to develop.
George is setting the table in this one. Maybe an alteration in events will create more depth to the characters (it SHOULD, anyway). So the final verdict can't be determined on TPM until 2 & 3 are done.
Also, look at the attempts made to make the Jedi look virtuous. Arguments can be made that they were underhanded on Tattooine, but how much shorter would the movie had been if they just TOOK the parts. But they had to risk their whole mission to win them legally (how many governments would do that?).
Basically, the events of EP1 will either be vindicated or villified based on what happens in 2&3. -
If you've really got something to say, surely you can say it in no more than 5 or 6 lines....Do you people realise that if it has taken you Half an hour to type it then no-one can be arsed to read it!!!....GET TO THE POINT, Stop whining...I've got better things to do with my time than peruse half of this inane rambling bollocks...I'thankyou...
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#5) I camped out for tickets for 2 weeks, so it can't be bad. #4) This movie is merely setting up the next two installments. #3) Who needs character development when you've got JarJar Binks? #2) It's a kids movie. ---- And the #1 excuse for why TPM didn't suck....... It's not BattleField Earth.
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This was one of the best reviews Ive read. I agree with Harry almost 100%.
Someone posted, that if you read the novel then you would know Anakin had dark visions of his mother dying. Why isnt this in the movie then? Do we have to read the book before/after the movie to fill in the blanks Lucas so carelessly left behind?
I also agree with the person who stated that just because a movie is financially successfull doesnt mean it is a good movie. All you have to do to prove this is turn on the TV and watch MTV. Its full of crap that still sells because there are people who dont have a bullshit filter and will buy anything.
I like SW too but Im not blind to the facts: TPM could easily have been better. -
Sorry about the previous post.
Well ladies and gentleman, time for my two cents ...
When I cam out of empire when I saw it in the theatres, all I heard is "Noooooooo, what the hell was that? Where's the remaining hour?" Everytime I watch TPM, and I do alot, I love it even more.
Jar Jar Binks - A kid character, of course, but take a look through the situation they are all in through his eyes. Here he is, an alien that has had an even harder life than little Ani on Tatooine, but he is still given a chance to prove himself - and he does by "coverring" the retreat of his fellow friends and perhaps family on Naboo.
Anakin Skywalker - He's just a boy, but soon to be the most powerfull man in the galaxy, save the empororer himself. If I was a nine year old kid, I couldn't take a space battle seriously either if just blew up something huge and saved the day. He's a slave, sure, but a well treated one. Watto is the kind of alien who needs to take care of his business. Without his shop, he would be on the street, and so would Ani. He treats Ani very well considerring the kind of master ani could have. Let's him leave early.
Master Jinn - Perfect. Rebellious teenager grown up, still defiant, but more civilized. He knows what is best for the galaxy, like everyone else. I know what's best for the galaxy, but of course I have no position of power to fullfill it -yet :P
Obi Wan - Respect for the master, but able to think for himself.
Amidala/Padme - Too much responsiblity for a girl who is not ready for it would destroy someone that is not as strong as she. She handled her responsiblities rather well, with an air of Royalty that I have missed since A New Hope, yet she still finds time to care for individual people.
Darth Sidious - the dark side of the movie, a point of conflict for the heroes. More evil and mysterious than Darth Maul, with no concern other than that of himself
Palpatine - "I will be Chancellor" Very confident. Perfect for the future Emporer.
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All in all, a great movie, and fitting to be called Star Wars. EP2 will be here in 731 days, and Hayden Christensen will be great. Ewan will rock our world. Portman will woo us. Palpatine will make us love evil people once again. Jar Jar will surprise us.
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If there is the Outbound Flight Project is EP2, Thrawn better be filmed destroying it or there will be Kessel to pay. Thanks for reading.
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Anakin's fear is the fate of his mother, that's the fear Yoda senses. Whatever happens to Shmi will determine when Anakin turns to the dark-side.
It's true that Anakin possesses confidence and not fear in TPM. Anakin also displays trust and befriends complete strangers. But Luke also displayed these same attributes. True Luke was forced by fate to help Obi-Wan after his Uncle& Aunt are killed. But Luke's trust in Ben is strong. Luke and Anakin's confidence are definitely tied for reasons yet to be revealed. It was Luke's confidence that leads him confront the Emperor in ROJ, despite warnings from Yoda and Ben. No doubt Luke would have been killed without Vader's help.
I believe the one driving force that links the fate of Luke and Anakin is the parent relationship. Luke's path changes when his father is revealed. Anakin's path to Vader will begin when his mother's fate is revealed.
Remember Vader changed when his son was revealed and killed the Emperor to save his son's life.
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Because we want to be heard! Let's face it, Lucas no longer has anyone around him with the BALLS to be HONEST and tell him when his ideas are fucking STUPID. He'll only work with sycophantic yes-men? Fine. That just means it's up to the disgruntled fans to hand Lucas his ass for what he did to TPM. I hope he reads every single scathing review of TPM and takes it to heart so he'll MAKE A BETTER MOVIE NEXT TIME.
Here's a question: who do you think would make a better episode II? Lucas OR Kasdan/Kurtz/Kershner? -
While I was not overly impressed with the acting skills of Little Ani either, I did feel that it had more to do with what the poor kid was given to do IN THE SCRIPT! As Harry rightly pointed out, Anakin was written as a pretty boring kid, a slave who sure seemed to have a lot of freedom. I doubt even Haley Joel Osmet could have brought much life to to this rather lifeless character. He was 10, we should be blaming the Director (sorry Uncle George) for not getting a better performance out of the kid, or the Scriptwriter (sorry again Uncle George) for not writing a more interesting, dynamic character.
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I respect your opinions as well. You paraphrased my first point into: "I don't like your comment so go away."... But, I do not want you to go away for my benefit, just so that you do not have to hear about all the people who loved TPM. Talkbacks about SW are gonna have them. Please by all means, lament your sad plight. You then paraphrased me as saying: " If you don't like the film, you cannot comment on the devious marketing techniques of Lucas."... But the point is, if you do not like the film, why on Earth would you buy it on DVD? Then you point out that because of Lucas's evil marketing plan, your "cheese headed family and friends" could not buy you the DVD, so they bought you the -gasp- VHS version. To me, it seems as if all you are worried about is your own sorry ass. You call your friends and family "cheese heads" because they were nice enough to buy you something you wouldn't have bought for yourself. And don't tell me you didn't tear that baby out of the wrapper fast enough to get blisters. I guess the fact that you badmouth the people you supposedly love as bad as you badmouth TPM says something doesn't it? Now you are upset because now you have the VHS and he announced the DVD is in the works. SO you get it a few years early. If you feel this is a scam, then do not buy the stuff. That is how consumers vote. I am not taking away your right to sound like a spoiled baby who is not getting what you want, when you want it. Feel free to illuminate yourself in a selfish light. I can understand complaints, and even whiney repsonses, I just do not understand where people get off sometimes. I mean, here is the deal, if you don't like What Lucas is doing, then boycott. But quit complaining about the fact that you can only watch the VHS version, while you sit there and watch it. Don't piss and moan about how much TPM sucks when you keep on rewatching your "free" widescreen collector's edition. It is just so hypocritical.
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I saw a film made by George Lucas, and he forgot to ask me how to make it. Because it is not what I wanted, I have come to the reasoably well-thought out conclusion that it is because Lucas has no one there to tell him what I would have wanted to see. So I am going to bitch about it until Lucas does what I want.
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When Hammer speaks of his friends and family as Cheese heads, he is obviously being sarcastic and anyone with a sense of humor could have easily picked that out. What Hammer is not kidding about is the utter failure of a flick that it is TPM. Anyone who claims this film was great or even comes close to what the first trilogy deserved as a follow up simply sniffed too much Bantha Poo Doo. Read the feedback here and you see that by far the majority of people who have posted agree this film needed help. Can you honestly tell me there is as much heart in this film as any of the first three? If this film was good, why would the vast majority be pumeling it. Don't fight with us, we are fragile and our hearts have been broken. We too want to believe that this wasn't possible in the land of the free, but it happened! Denial my friend, hurts all around you. Give yourself to the darkside...it is the only way. Hope is alive that the next two will pick up where the original's left off. That clip of something that looked like a Star Destroyer gave me hope. Lucas has brought in some writing help for this next one, doesn't that tell you he saw the big Oops sign in his head. Difficult to see the future is...
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I am sure you meant cheese heads in the best way possible, and again I am not invalidating your disdain for the film. You are right many people just didn't get waht was so great about it. But If you have been to the talkbaks a lot, you would realise that what started out being a 75% disapproval rating, is turning into a 50% approval rating. Just look at this talkback, and you will realise that over half the posts were happy with TPM. There are still people like you who think it sucked, but if you loved the classic trilolgy, I can safely assure you that it is only a matter of time before you get it with the rest of us. It is not easy, but you have to first open yourself up to the possibility that you just don't understand why TPM is the way it is. Until you unlearn what you have learned, then you will wallow in the worst kind of ignorance. The kind that you are unaware of having. The only thinkg worse than not knowing, is thinking you know something you don't.
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You know, Harry, I agree. When I first walked out of that theatre, a big grin on my face, thinking "What the hell was that?" I didn't give it enough thought. But I enjoyed it. My first thoughts were about the absense of an alien language and that overly done underwater scene. What the hell are our "space heroes" doing underwater? But then I remembered Lucas saying once that he liked to mix up the settings, as in the originals: desert, snow, forest. Only logical choice next was underwater. Stupid, but I guess that's his right. Anyway, I think you were on the mark. I hope Jar Jar gets better and is less cartoony, and Lucas learns from his mistakes. Then again, he may not. He didn't with this one. But at least now he knows what needs to be done. I do own it on VHS, and I enjoy it more, since it did introduce the characters very well, with the exception of Anakin's fear. But I'm not one to point fingers. I am excited about Episode Two, though. Thanks for letting me rant.
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drum roll please!................
we grew up. I am SO in agreement with you harry, on so many levels.
I keep thinking about all of the times that I heard people saying that it was the worst movie that they had ever seen, and sometimes from people that I had watched horrendous movies with, in the past. One of the people that told me this, was a friend who I watched all of john waters' movies with for the first time. I hardly think that TPM is a worse movie than "multiple maniacs", after all Jar Jar only steps in crap, he doesn't eat it. I really hope that George Lucas makes future aliens speak their native tongue, no matter how ridiculous it is when the humans respond to them in english.
I recently left a job at a prominent NYC sci-fi outlet, and believe me, I heard it all while working there. Consider this:
For Watto I heard that it was so racist that he was a sterotypical:
1) jew
2) arab
3) italian
For the nemoidians heard that it was so racist that they were stereotypical:
1) chinese
2) french
3) transylvanians
4) jews
The amazing thing about these comments is that all of the people who say that the aliens negatively represent this culture/people, insist that their interpretation is right aginst all others.
I remember one conversation that ensued as follows:
-"The trade federation were so obviously supposed to be jewish."
-"why do you think that?"
-"because they acted jewish!"
Who is the racist, George Lucas or this critic?
It is impossible for us to create, outside of the parameters of what we already know. Since all we can really do when creating a new accent, is conglomerate pre-existing accents, everyone who listens to that conglomerate, will latch on to whichever of the elements they are already familiar with.
We accept the inadequacies in the old trilogy because we were kids when we saw them. I alwas hear people criticize the two headed announcer, but no one ever mentions the scene in which chewbacca howls like Tarzan, while swinging on a vine. -
Harry, your so full of shit.
You cant review a SW film. You must wait until all 6 films are out. You cant look as these fabulous films one at a time. You must look at the BIGGER picture. As Vader said:
"I find your lack of faith disturbing!"
You piss me off Harry. Your just a fanboy who thinks he's a critic. You dont know jackshit about film. ASS!
For all the TPM fans:
"May the Force be with You!" -
No ones gonna read this cause you're all tired in the eyes from all the above but I gotta say this:
Star Wars is awesome. All of it. Be glad you're lucky enough to have this serial going on while you're alive. You're kids won't have it and your Grandkids wont either. That said, Let's talk about the original trilogy and how 'structured' and 'magical' it is. A New Hope. So mired with tech difficulties it's been edited and changed no less than five times since it's insurrection. The acting is bad, the continuity is absent (Why didn't the Death Star just blow up the mother planet Yavin? Nuff said), C3PO is JUST as annoying as Jar Jar and to this day Mark Hamill still yells 'Carrie' at the end. Empire Strikes Back has two adventures going on simultaniously (TV show--structure: we forget where we are), Vader is comicly overwraught killing officers with that force thing waaay too much, Yoda is a plastic bandage on the MISTAKE GL made by killing off Obi Wan (forced, convenient), acting is bad, Luke's training is waaay too short, C3PO is cringeworthy in his annoyancy. Return of the Jedi, what can I say except badly directed (too many close ups), Jabbas palace killed the novelty of the original Cantina, Jabba was cumbersome, Luke could not possibly be a Jedi, the Second Death Star was lazy writing, the Ewoks were fakey and annoying as hell, the sister thing with Leah was another 'bandaid' over the "other" plot-boiler from ESB, bad acting, bad acting, bad acting, the whole premise of blowing up that little bunker and bringing down the Empire was stoopid, and there's no way those Ewoks could defeat the Empire's 'best stormtroopers'. This is cornball stuff people! Like the $6Million Dollar Man Vs. Bigfoot! Like BattleStar Galactica! Like Tweeky! Like Kung Fu movies! Like the Lone Ranger! That is IT! And it was the baddest mfkng shit this eleven year old ever saw and there's nothing you can say that' going to change that. I had all the figures, all the comic books and all the trading cards. I can recite everything word for word and I'm working on The Phantom Menace "Patience, My Blue Friend." Indeed. Yeah. I miss Han Solo and the bickering too--but I would have screamed REALLY loud if they stuck a lame Han Solo replacement in there too. Look. Star Trek: The Next Generation didn't have emotion or heart either...but I got those toys too.
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We've seen this a thousand times before in other films. As Anakin is turning to the dark side. There will be a scene where he is on the verge of exploding in a fit of rage (maybe over a lie told to him by Palpatine about his mother's death or of Amidala's unfaithfulness). He's decided to confront Amidala or Obi-Wan about these lies and before he does Jar Jar finds him and realizes what he's about to do. He begs and pleads with Anakin that Amidala has been true (or whatever) but Anakin's mind has been won over by Palpatine. There is no turning back for him. Jar Jar tries just a little too hard to get Anakin to stop. Anakin can't control himmself and unleashes his anger. He'll grip JAr Jar's throat (by hand or through the force) claiming he's in on it with Obi-Wan and Amidala. "Everyones against me." He'll grip Jar jar a little too hard killing him.
After realizing what he's done, he'll fall to the ground holding Jar Jar's lifeless body weeping. Or screaming the obligatory, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"
Now that would be tragic. -
I agree that all the SW films are all equally incredible, but there are certain issues you bring up that are not the case. ==(1)=== The Death Star could not blow up Yavin, because it is a Gas Giant, and the Daeth Star's ray would only be defracted. The Superlaser only works on solid planets.===(2)=== Obi-Wan was killed off in ANH by the request of Guiness. Originally Lucas wanted Obi-Wan to talk backwards and act all goofy, but Alec Guiness wanted his character to have more nobility. Lucas obliged Guiness because the Studio only financed the film because he had signed Guness. So with Obi-Wan killed off, and two more films greenlighted he came up with Yoda to repair the issues brought to light by Guiness. ===(3)=== The second Death star was actually very inventive. Originally, there would only be one Death Star, to be destroyed in the very end of the saga. Lucas wasn't sure that he would make more films, so he included it in ANH. When ROTJ came around what else could he do to top something as wicked as a Death Star? Originally there was talk of having two death stars in the finale, but then they realised the best way to make it seem fresh was to have it be a trap, under construction, with the Emperor aboard. The stakes were much higher, and I thought it worked well. But I have no bone to pick with your intent. None of thes efilms are flwaless, and any way you slice it, TPM was technically better realized than the previous installments. Lucas himself said he never got above a 75% satisfaction level with the classic trilogy, while on TPM he came away with about a 90% satisfaction level. And bottom line that is what matters. Not that some kid who spent so much on SW merchandise that he feels Lucas owes him his story thinks. I mean if you do not like what Lucas is doing. Then my all means, beat it. Go find something you do like. You don't have to, but at the very least quit expecting something other than what Lucas wants to do, because he has earned the right make some movies the way he wants them.
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Admit it Harry, you were so emotionally invested in the pile of dross that was SWE1:TPM that you can't bring yourself, even now, to admit how bad it was.
You say that everything is in place for EP2 to be everything that EP1 could have been.
Well, everything, and more (budgetwise) was in place for EP1 to be just as good, if not better, than anything in the SW universe to date.
It wasn't. The only excuse can be that GL - who succesfully and deliberately removed himself from any external influence so he could deliver _his_ vision - failed.
We, the unwashed masses who slay the film and heartlessly criticise the story, are accused of losing touch with our inner child. I submit that it is GL and the marketting machine that create TPM that have lost their childish hearts, not us.
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Firstly, and since this IS a STAR WARS talk back Harry, I would just like to mention the baffling comment about TPM being "better" than Jedi. In what way? I honestly can't fathom what was SO dislikable with Jedi. Okay, so Mark Hamill's Face (sp?) was starting to look like a used tyre, and Harrison Ford looked bored, but so what? Liam Neeson looked bored . . . not to mention the rest of the cast. The only character so far as I could tell, which didn't seems to suffer from the "Blue Screen Blues" was Jar Jar Binks! And though TPM's saving grace, The Lightsabre Duel, was a stunning combat sequence, I'm afraid it was ruined by what appeared to be an over-eagerness to cut to the next scene. And I also have to admit that seeing Liam Neeson in Ewan McGregor's arms brought back the scene from the Mask when Stanley (as The Mask) farted during his "death" scene. I couldn't keep a straight face. Sorry - got side-tracked there - compare the Lightsabre Duels between TPM's acrobatic and somewhat Ninja/Bollywood style performance, to the more sombre, sedate and seemingly meaningful confrontation between Anakin and Luke. . . that meant more to me than a thousand TPMs. *** Okay - for the Oscars thingy. One thing to say: "How long did it take Spielberg to get an Oscar?" Enough said. *** "The Lord of the Rings" is an incredibly exciting project, Harry. . . escpecially when you're privy to scripts and previews that everyone else has to wait for (hope you like being manipulated, Big Guy). Many Star Wars fans who haven't read the books and who take the time to watch these movies, will probably see where some of those "unique" Star Wars-esque things came from. Provided, that is, that Peter Jackson can live up to expectation. *** Here's hoping to a slightly better Episode 2 and 3!
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TPM was lacking in one department. BLUEMILK.thats all i'm gonna say. www.bluemilk.co.uk
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For the 2 of you reading this, you will see that Anakin's pappy is the emporer...who is of course, Palpatine in the ep1.
Hints.
Emperor is more powerful than luke in ROTJ, the triangle of the 3 in the end, anakin had 'no father', mythology and history repeating itself...I am your father...discover why that is REALLY powerful, not just in itself...
DO NOT Forget that Palpatine is PLAYING the simple role of chancellor...he is crafty and powerful enough to rule. How do we know? EP 4-6, that's HOW!
You think a dumb f could do that with NO plan and perfect execution?
You will see that Anakin is the most powerful manifestation of the force...too powerful, too much potential...too dangerous...and guess who said he'd have his eye on Anakin's career at EP1's end?
Why did that stay in the film? For comedy? No, forshadowing.
Anakin is not 'just a boy' to him. He knows what's up. Not only does Palpatine puppeeter the naieve republic, he sacrifices the good and bad forces to kill each other off to ensure his power.
And with the one entity that CANNOT fail to do his deeds, he will rule supreme. That entity? Anakin.
Think about it. Anakin has a purpose. Not just to the story, but to the ch's...
What purpose would star wars hold if Anakin is a magic product and the emperor has NO ties to that skywalker family?
Do you think the only reason vader kills the emperor is to bring balance to the force?
It's been said when we see ALL 6 films at once, we will see it in a new light.
Think of the power of ROTJ knowing that Palpitine is daddy to Anakin.
And think of this. YOu might ask, why would Anakin then be a slave?
Well, if you had THE most powerful force sensitive 'project' or entity known throughout the galaxy, you would hide it and monitor it. Right? Yep.
ANd YES, Aura Sing WAS In EP 1, she IS keeping an eye on ANAKIN and there IS a spy droid in EP 1 that if you look carefully DOES capture Qui-Jon with others...Palpatine is SPYING for a reason...that is FACT in the film, not geekboy speculation...
What, you think palpatine is ONLY Interested in being god damn chancellor and them emperor...HELLO!...EVEN MCCALLUM SAID THESE STORIES ARE ALSO ABOUT how the emperor (palpatine chancellor, now) is always losing sith lords...why is that important? HE NEEDS THEM TO GET POWER...WHO HELPS HIM?! VADER...WHo is needed..>VADER...who is TOO PERFECT to do what the emperor needs? VADER.
Who was Vader? Anakin. Who is anakin's father? "not known"...not 'known' but not nonexistent.
Do you think it's coincedence that THE PRODUCER OF THESE FILMS, RICK MCCALLUM said, and this is FACT that besides what we know, he states it's about the frustration of losing apprentices and trying to find the next one...what better way to ENSURE the PERFECT apprentice than to MANUFACTURE ONE! That being ANakin.
Be ready for a GREAT SURPRISE!
Kincaid
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First of all, I want to congratulate Harry on being the first person to point out the most obvious reason why, at least to me, the Phantom Menace sucked--the horrible, inept mischaracterization of Anakin Skywalker. Not to beat a dead horse, but all of the nuances of characterization that were present in the first trilogy were completely absent here, and this really hits home when you compare the characterization of Anakin in TPM to that of Luke in A New Hope. Everything that Harry said in his year-after review was dead on, especially the "slave" issue. When you compare things like this to A New Hope, you see how weak Anakin's character really is. In TPM, we are told Anakin is a slave. Fine, that I can live with. But not only does this characterization fail because of the points Harry mentioned (sturdy footwear, education, a lack of semi-regular beatings) but I think it fails in the hearts and minds of hardcore Star Wars fans for a more subtle reason. In A New Hope, we are introduced to Luke Skywalker, a young man full of ambition, but lacking in opportunities to fulfill those ambitions. The difference between Anakin and Luke is that we IDENTIFY with the predicament of Luke Skywalker. He is a real, believable character. We know that he wants to get off Tatooine and go to the academy, and this is beautifully and lyrically communicated to us in the famous "sunset" scene. In short, we CARE about the motivations of Luke Skywalker more than we care about Anakin's slavery. I, for one, have a hard time eliciting any sort of sympathy for this kid. When all is said and done, The "sunset" scene in A New Hope will show more character depth than Episodes 1-3 combined, I promise you that. And that is why, one year later, TPM still sucks...and will continue to suck for years to come.
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My opinion softened somewhat on the movie, but it is still a disappointment. When I heard previewers dissing the movie before it came out, I thought they were nuts and the movie would kick booty. But some of the critics were right. The biggest flaw in the film was the character of Anakin and the casting of Jake Lloyd. Yes, he is a child, but that is no excuse.
He played the part like a wooden statue and the dialogue, though no fault of his own, was atrocious. Those "yipees" he yells at times are the worst. Also Anakin's fighter scene near the end was just plain unbelievable and less than thrilling...and once again, that awful dialogue rears its ugly head. Aside from the disaster of Anakin's characterization, there are 2 other things I did not like.
First, unlike most, I thought the FX weren't that great. I just didn't like the CGI. The battle droids looked stupid and the Naboo battle scene looked like a cartoon...a far contrast from the "realistic" looking battle scene on Hoth in Empire or even the Ewok battle on Endor in Jedi. Both "looked" more realistic and that is the overall objective, one would think, of any new special effects technology. Even the much hyped pod race was boring...I bought the tape and find myself fast forwarding through this cartoonish segment which lasts way too long. I hope they didn't cut out any Darth Maul/Jedi battles for the sake of the pod race. And lastly, Jar-Jar flat out stinks. He's more annoying with every viewing and I really wish he would not be in any subsequent films. Poop jokes have no place in Star Wars. The original trilogy had laughs and wit without stooping to potty humor. Overall, TPM did not completely stink. Any movie with Jedi lightsabre battles can't stink...I only wish this one had more. TPM clearly ranks #4 out of all the movies...far behind Return of the Jedi. Jedi gets a bad rap, but I think it looks like a masterpiece compared to TPM. Watching TPM was the first time I felt like I was watching a cartoon during any of the four movies. -
The Two headed announcer
that sounds like he dropped
in from ESPN
now there is something
worth complaining about
lets not forget part of the
charm of Star Wars
is the dopey innocence of it all
"Lost Tyrie, Lost Hotch,
They came from behind!"
I mean I love "Star Wars"
to death but it set the standard
for dopey lines and wooden acting
and it set the bar low
If you wanna complain be reasonable
The two headed guy,
Greedo shooting first(and missing) in the
Special Edition
Those are the things that worry me
(Han Solo supposed to be a rogue!)
all in all though TPM
was a good film
in many ways better than the
original Star Wars
Take your rose colored glasses
off of the past and just the
film on itself
you'll find flaws but none
that are damning
George has always been teetering
on the brink,
respect the balls it takes -
....and can't wait for them to fall. I liked THE PHANTOM MENACE well enough but it didn't measure up to STAR WARS or EMPIRE because there was no Han Solo or Princess Leia characters to wryly comment on anything. It was all sincere Jedi mumbo-jumbo. So if we're supposed to idolize the Jedi, why are they such a bunch of arrogant assholes? Qui Gon brings them a child who can do things no human can do, who is superior to Yoyo in the tidewithcholian count, and they dismiss him because he misses his mother. So if you care about people, that's the route to the dark side, but if you're able to shovel them aside like yesterdays fishstick tray, you're Jedi material. Plus, what a stupid thing to do. By treating Anakin this way, they practically created Darth Vader in that scene. Strategically speaking, you'd think they'd know that the Sith would want to get their hands on this kind of power. Yoga gave that speech about the path to the dark side, but it seems like arrogance leads to suffering, not fear or anger which are part of the human condition. Lucas is not a subtle enough of a writer to surprise us at this point with the idea that the Jedi's arrogance lead to their fall and maybe they weren't all they were cracked up to be. I mean, in JEDI, did anyone by that cop out from Obi Wan about his rather nasty lie to Luke :" It was true from my point of view." Well, from my point of view, Obi Wan was a lying sack of shit. Vader never lied to Luke. This is another example of Jedi morality, but it is really another example of poor writing and character conception. I dare Lucas to make this Anakin's fall: he decides that ending slavery is more important than upholding a monarchy. Palpatine will help him free the slaves, the Jedi will not. Of course, Palpatine has his own evil ends, but Anakin becomes Vader to do good, which makes the evil he does in the original trilogy all the more tragic and horrifying.
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If you hate TPM, your a fucking moron! Its that simple!
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There are a lot of morons out there then, because TPM sucked more ass than your mom.
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I agree with what you wrote here, especially about the 'aliens' speaking alien. The reason they made them speak was so that small children who can't read fast understand whats going on. This is bollocks. My little brother didnt care that he couldnt read what Jabba the Hutt was saying. Lucas has to remember that people other than children watch the films.
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YOU PEOPLE MUST ALL CHILL OUT. TPM IS A CHAPTER OF A MUCH LARGER STORY. YOU DON'T READ THE FIRST CHAPTER OF A BOOK AND SAY THIS IS AWEFUL. ANH IS THE ONLY MOVIE MADE TO STAND ON ITS OWN. IF YOU JUST WATCH ROTJ IN WOULDN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE WITHOUT THE OTHER MOVIES. AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE TPM WILL LOOK BETTER TO THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T LIKE IT. LUCAS HAS HAD A LOT OF TIME TO THING ABOUT HOW HE WANTS TO PIECE IT ALL TOGETHER. I'M SURE HE HAS A PLAN. I CAN'T AGREE WITH THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS ABOUT ANAKINS CHARACTER. THERE IS ONLY ONE PERSON WHO KNOW HOW AND WHY HE TURNS TO THE DARK SIDE. EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST PURE SPECULATION. TPM GIVES GLIMPSES OF ANAKINS FUTURE THROUGH HIS OWN EYE. THE EYS OF A 10 YEAR OLD. "I'M GONNA BE THE FIRST ONE TO SEE EM ALL" IF ANAKIN HAD SO MUCH EVIL IN HIM WHEN HE WAS 10 NO WAY HE EVER WOULD HAVE GOTTEN TRAINED. HE HAS TO BE INNOCENT. JUST SIT BACK RELAX AND LET THE RUMORS HOLD YOU OVER UNTIL EPII AND III. THEN IT WILL ALL MAKE SENSE FOR YOU.
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Yeah, and don't judge Battlefield Earth until you see its sequel. It'll all make sense when the sequel comes out. Duh.
The good is, Star Wars really starts to get good around Episode 4. -
i think roj and tfm have thier ups and downs.first roj;1.ewoks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!this is really bad.zippers,little people waddleling around, way too cute.2.boba fett!!!(lame death and we all know it!!)3.dancing sceene/music number(really lame).4. the end celecbration.what a crappy ending. lets all dance like idiots and have a crew photo at the end!(the only ones missing were the set crew.5. luke and leia insest revealed(gross!)
tpm;1.jar jar!!!!!!!!!!(need i say more).2.anakin diolog,yippiee!wizard!,carap like that!2.anakin and amidala(was so fake and weak! it felt like anakin was being nice as if his mom was forcing him).3.needed more darth maul.4.needed more obi wan!!!5.space battle was pretty tame compare to sw and roj!6.no diolog during saber duels! now this could have been fun(like vader vs. luke in empire!)
in the end it just depends on what you liked more in both movies.i hope lucas takes it to a esb feel!this will help the series!!and jar jar becomes a warrior type(it is 10 years latter,so keep your fingers crossed!) -
May 19, 2000 1:29:59 PM CDT
Good god, could there be anything left to say about this movie t
by zeno
I advise anyone who has an interest in the underlying messages of Star Wars and at least a medium-level attention span to check out the subversive little article at . It was written by respected science-fiction writer David Brin for Salon magazine. (I introduced it to another message board chock full'o Star Wars fans, and it did NOTHING for my popularity there, lemme tell you.)
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Check out the above mentioned article. Your talkback echoes some of what it covers. And for everybody, let me go on record: in my humble opinion, The Phantom Menace sucked.
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I think you're dead-on, Harry, and thanks for pointing out the problem with the aliens speaking accented English. That was a mistake. I can read subtitles, and the alien languages in the first films were fun--especially since care was taken to give them the feel of real languages, yet let us "hear" English in them. Does anyone besides me hear Wicket say, "Eat your Mama!" after he and Leia get shot at by the stormtrooper on Endor, you know, the scene where he rolls under the log and Leai dives behind it?
Anakin should have been something of a tormented soul; he's too cute to live. I think Terry Brooks' novelization gave Anakin some spooky dreams. Too bad we didn't get them in the movie.
And now for my, I hope, new contribution to the dialogue. The real hero of TPM should have been Obi-Wan. I'll lay dollars to doughnuts he's behind Anakin's fall to the dark side. (He's such a pretentious prig, whining about how Qui-Gon kept messing up his chances for getting on the Jedi Council, as if that would have made him, Obi-Wan look better by association.) His role as hero-- perhaps protagonist or antihero would be a better description-- would parallel Luke's in Episodes 4-6. Luke saves Vader's bacon; Obi-Wan fries Anakin's. Or, as a friend of mine later put words into Yoda's mouth re. Obi-Wan and Vader: "Fuck it up, you did. Fix it, you will." Nope. I'm not a big fan of Obi-Wan. (Darth's my man.) It was ever so brave of him to set Luke up to kill his own Dad. If Obi-Wan wanted Vader dead so bad, why didn't he try to kill him himself? Eh?
As for fond memories of watching the first three films when we were all in diapers, nyetskis. I was already old enough to vote when I first saw 'em (and more so), and I didn't think I was watching kid's movies. And you'd have to have some pretty tough kids to let them sit through Empire. In fact, if I remember correctly, Lucas was concerned enough about what was going on in Empire, that he called in Bruno Bettelheim to vet the big "Hey, Luke, I'm your Dad" scene so the kiddies wouldn't get too freaked out. But then we shouldn't underestimate the gory-mindedness of kids. They get this stuff on an instintual level while we're all chewing our fingers wondering if they'll be permanently traumatized. One of my better memories of Jedi (my least favorite of the three films) was the little girl who went with her Dad, and when Vader died, asked querulously, Was Vader dead? and Dad got the chance to say, Yes, he was. [There were a lot of divorced Dads with their kids at that film.] At least Star Wars people don't come back from the dead--other than to kibbitz--unlike those annoying folks in Star Trek. Oh, I'm not really dead. Just kidding. If you're gonna be dead, please stay that way. Twinkling blue and bullshitting I can deal with, but Only foolin'! drives me nuts!
Over to you guys. -
You know what the problem is? TPM was made on two separate levels: one for the little kids and one for the intelligent adults. The trouble is too many of you people just don't fit into either group. When you consider the depth that this movie begins to add to the story, it's rather awesome. But this means you have to actually think about it, which I don't think many people are used to doing. Everyone is used to Hollywood garbage like the Matrix, where they can just turn off their brains for a couple hours and be entertained. I think many of the subtle points of this movie went way over your heads, and leaves you whining about insignificant trivialities such as the lack of conversation during lightsaber duels or whether the aliens spoke too much English. You all should take a good, objective look back at some of the serious cheese in the original films. If any or all of you have seriously lost interest in the next two films, then I'm delighted. Maybe then I wont have to suffer through this pathetic drivel as you'll all be gaping mindlessly at the next handful of Matrix films.
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...what an arrogant ass you are. Please share with all of us idiots the depth and subtle points of TPM.
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Hey, Buzz, I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice what a bunch of sleazebuckets the Jedi are. Yeesh! Oh, let's rip Watto off, what the hey! So we coerced Jar Jar to take us to the Gungan city, let's leave him there to get mashed. (Never mind whether you liked or hated Jar Jar; it's not cool to betray people.) No, you can't be a Jedi because you miss your Mom, never mind he's got more Force ability than half the clowns on the Council. Well, there's one thing you can say in favor of Qui-Gon, he's kind of out there on his own. Wonder how he got saddled with that nitwit Obi-Wan. Yuck. I guess my point is, perhaps Lucas is being more subtle than we give him credit for--I believe this once every six months or so--and was showing us what a bunch of arrogant jerks the Jedi were the better to explain Anakin destroying them. Anakin/Vader does bring balance to the Force; no one ever had to say he did it nicely. Got a question: how come Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan couldn't testify in the Senate to Naboo being invaded by the Trade Federation? Fat lot of good it does you being a guardian of peace and justice in the Republic if you can't do either. Oh, and yeah, what about leaving Shmi behind? I got the impression that Tatooine was a totally outlaw world--it didn't seem to be part of the Republic--but certainly some effort should have been made to save Shmi--if for no other reason than she seems to be the Jedi equivalent of the Virgin Mary, never mind Anakin's agony at leaving her behind. How many women have the Jedi got kicking around who can get knocked up by the Force?
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I think Kincaid2 is more than right in his assessment of Anakin's sperm donor being Senator Palpatine. I've been aware of this possibility for a while, and didn't think it appropriate to speak up. Now that the cat is out of the bag:
Sit there, and think about everything that you saw in that "blasphemous" scene. Shmi states that "There was no father". When Lucas was writing the script in recent months, what loudmouth Dr. was screaming about "I'm my kid's mom." and sperm donors? Hmmmmm... "I can't explain it" can be extrapolated into many things. She can't talk about it because she would be in danger? She can't talk about it because she's part of the conspiracy? She can't expalin it because it would take some 3 days to try to explain how she heard Dr. Laura's drivel on a desert planet in a galaxy far, far away? Examine the scene again. The frist time I was shocked a the statements, but I looked back the 2nd time, and if you watch her eyes, they drift away. There is either shame, or deception there in her eyes, her voice. She approaches the topic with that of a word-smith. Clinton's recent bantering of the definition of "is" comes to mind, and the deceptions of words come frequently in the movies.
We must then examine the "everything is true, from a certain point of view" type statements. I know there is one in ROTJ, and also in TPM. It's a matter of stating the truth, as a good mother would, but not revealing dangerous items. Which would be better? Yo, hey, my kids a Sith Lord... woo hoo!!! Perhaps she is hoping that with the proper guidance, Anakin can lead a life of good.
The reason for her to move to Tatooine is the same as why Qui-Gon chose it, and why later in ANH, Kenobi has settled there with Owen, Beru, and oh yeah, the punk kid. Slavery, even voluntary, means someone else will protect you while you run for safety. Shmi has no resources for protection. She want's to be out of the way, taken care of, and not threatened in any foul way. One could argue that she made a deal with one of the Hutt's to arrange for this. Why then would Vader show a particular affinity later to give Han Solo to Jabba? A debt owed to a family, perhaps? Repay the debt, and then, he controls the situation. Again, laying traps for later. He knows that Luke would try to rescue Han... OK, you got all that.. That's old news...
Continuing on, now, why would we see everything in a new light at the end of III? Think about this one some more... Lucas loves shockers. He shocked us in ESB with the unmasking of Luke's father. He shocked us again at the end of ROTJ with the whole incest thing (BTW: kudos to "George Lucas in Love"). Review the movies in your mind, and cover the desire for a father to want his son in the family business of death and mayhem. This is a story of corruption, and redemption. Luke was faced with corruption, and beat it. How much more fitting would it be for his father to have faced that corruption, and failed. We know that Anakin fails, but what would tempt him so strongly, other than that desperate need for a father. Anakin had no father figure, he finds out the sperm donor is Palpatine, and he harbors the resentment and hatred for the abandonment, the lack of a father figure growing up, which leads to ... the Dark Side...
How much more profound of a statement is it, when Vader examines his own feelings for his son and kills the Emporer, than for the Emporer to be his own father. Luke, Anakin's son, cared so much to risk his own life to save his father from sin, knowing that there was a glimmer of hope. Vader at that point, knows that all he has ever seen of the Emporer is greed, corrupt power. There is a revelation in his mind of the wars, the carnage, all that has happened is never to benefit him (Vader) or his son (Luke), but only to benefit that doddering old misguided corrupt fool. Vader sees no hope, and believes in his son, like the Emporer, a controlling fanatic, never believed in him. Vader sees no hope, can't believe in the potential for good from a life so far corrupt. He looks back across his life, and remembers those that did try to help him, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, his beloved C3-PO, the good he did in his life as Anakin.
The most profound, the most shocking, and the most fitting tie-in, and make you sit up and say "WHOAH", could only be this.
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OrionSaint has a neat little twist, and he has opened my eyes to some potential. Sidious is the Phantom Menace, but Jackson may turn out to be a baddie in the end.
What do we know Samuel L. Jackson as??? Every time we see him on screen, do we see a serene, calm, gentle man, wielding a sword calmly, and swiftly? No. A Long Kiss Goodnight, The Negotiator, you name it... Jackson is a character actor, and a darn good one. He's a bad-a--, p'ed off, mo-fo that's taken only so much, and now... NOW... it's PAYBACK TIME!!! How would you like taking orders from an 800 year old Kermit the Frog?
The other option of course, is that his fall from Jedi Knighthood will be the same sort of anger, frustration, etc, and he gives in during a fight. He gets in a fight, and as he realizes this Sith at the other end of his blade might win, he's got nothing to lose.
We will undoubtably see anger in his eyes. We will see the blood, the fight, the emotion in his eyes. He's gonna kick somebody's butt. Just a matter of whose... -
So, you would rather acquiesce to this realm of redundancy and mediocrity than acknowledge the dissatisfaction with what your lives are defined by. So be it, Fanboys...
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HOW CAN YOU COMPARE THE PHANTOM MENACE TO THE A DISNEY MOVIE!! ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE SAME MOVIE? YOU ARE BEING WAY TO PICKY IN YOUR REVIEW. AND IN ALL OF YOUR INTERVIEW WITH FANS AND THE SO CALLED NON FANS NONE WERE POSITIVE. THE PHANTOM MENACE MADE OVER 400 MIL AND HERE YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY IS THAT MOST WERE NOT PLEASED WITH THIS FILM.
OF COURSE YOU ARE INTITLED TO YOUR OPINION, BUT GIVE ME A BREAK!! AND FOR YOU TO BE BITCHING ABOUT THE DVD ISSUE IS LAME. LUCAS HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT HE IS PLANNING SOMETHING SPECIAL FOR THE DVD'S AND IN ORDER TO DO THAT HE HAS TO WAIT TILL ALL THREE COME OUT. AND VHS IS NOT TOTALY OBSOLITE THERE ARE SOME OF US THAT STILL USE THEM. DVD IS WAY TO EXPENSIVE ANYWAYS. IF I AM GOING TO SPEND THAT MUTCH ON THE SET I AM GOING TO WAIT TILL THE WHOLE SET COME OUT.
WOA.....OK I FELL BETTER NOW THAT I DID A LITTLE BITCHING OF MY OWN.
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Yeah, but I did enjoy the film even with all it's errors. The problem I want an answer to is, how the heck did Annakin get his fighter into the Trade Federation battleship ? Wasn't it shielded - it was under attack, right ? If Annakin could just fly his little old fighter right on in there then why didn't the Naboo battle plan consist of all fighters heading for the open UNSHIELDED doors ? Come on, George Lucas, either shields work or they don't. If they don't then in Star Trek we could just beam a bomb aboard any hostile vessels. This is not a nit-pickers complaint because it was essential for Annakin to get aboard the battleship so he could blow it up so the droid army would collapse, the Gungans be saved, the droid guards in the palace would halt and the Princess be saved and Annakin come out the hero of the day, be accepted by the Jedi Council and thus begin his journey of destiny. So George, you blew it on this most crucial plot point. Sloppy.
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...lightsaber duel. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Too bad Darth Maul is dead (or is he?). I'd love to see more of him in upcoming films.
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You heard me. Go on. Go.
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May 22, 2000 9:27:00 AM CDT
Blowing up Yavin, do you even know what gas comprises a gas gian
by mad maximus
Energy beam defracted? What fuckin' school did you go do? Granted, I'm not Carl Sagan but at the very least I know what gas giant are comprised of :HYDROGEN! .....Do you know what hydrogen does when you pump enough energy into it? IT INGITES AND EXPLODES!....You know what, forget about science, do you know history?...Have you ever heard of the Hindenberg??? Do you know why it burst into flames??? IT WAS FILLED WITH HYDROGEN!! After that all dirigibles(Blimps) were filled with helium so that shit won't happen again.....Christ, go watch Newtons Labs or something....
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Newtons Apple, not Labs, my mistake
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Well, Harry, first of all, Jar Jar Jar Binks is not the best character in "TPM". So he's a bit funny at auccasions, but,you know...He has been given too much room. He deffinately shouldn't be in the nesxt movie, 'cause he's no longer needed for the plot, but...
Anyhow, I found what you said about Anakin seein' himself as Darth Vader doin' bad things as a good idea. I never thought about that myself, but that was fucking brilliant! Lucas missed out on that one, didn't he. He shouldn't have gone to you for advice with a screenplay. No, you wanting Anakin to be a real slave...Get a grip. This is another galaxy and a distant past. And besides, some slave-owners treated slaves good.
And that all aliens should speak "Alien", what the hell do you mean. Do you actually wan't Jar Jar and the gungans to say "Wocka-sayo-mona-fa-thi?" or somethin' instead of "Whosa thesen hisen?". You have got to be kidding me! And there was aliens who spoke alien too you know, like Watto for example. And better than "The Return Of The Jediu"? No fucking way. That is the best film in the saga so far. "The Empire Strikes Back" is a good film, but I would actually rate that last, after "TPM".
Now the best characters in "TPM" was the jedis and the siths. No discussion. The fight between Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Darth Maul is the best sequence in the whole movie. And John Williams score was Oscar-material. The effects was entertaining. This was a great movie... -
May 25, 2000 9:37:51 AM CDT
LEAVE JAKE LLOYD ALONE. HE IS JUST A KID. HE DID OK. GET OVER YO
by andymation
That's right. Jake Lloyd didn't help the film but he didn't harm it either. He did his job. Not more and not less. I mean, do you actually expect him to be better? Not every kid could have been casted for "The Sixth Sence" and if they could, than it wouldn't have gotten that Oscar nomination and not one of us would have been thrilled to see that someone so young could deliver such a performance. Get a grip, Harry! I thought you said you was Peter Pan, the kid who never grew up...I'm starting to doubt you on that.
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So, your opinion is
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You are such a fucking idiot I can't resist replying to you. You must read posts like you watch movies, because I wasn't comparing the sixth sense to TFM, in fact I was talking to another poster. You're so fucking stupid you didn't even realize I was responding to another poster about kids, and acting ability. I change my mind; I can't waste my time replying to some 13-year-old fuck that can't tell a decent movie from a pile of shit. Anyhow, at least this post will give you something to do when you get home from your after school job at McDonalds and are done jerking off to TFM.
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Thats what this film is, people...chapter one, in what is undoubtedly going to be a dark trilogy...i think lucas made this one nice and cheery for a reason...because episode 2 and 3 will bring all of it crashing down...everything that was beautiful here will be destroyed in the next two installments....and while i think in this chapter jar jar is a pain in the padded ass, i think a lot of things in the future will make that gungan a hell of a lot stronger, and less whiny....anakin's change to the dark side will haunt us all....
you can rest assured i will be there to see it front row center -
Go home!
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Man how time flies
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Mar 03, 2008 9:22:32 AM CST
Man, I'm so glad they explored Jar Jar in future films
by watertownsurfer
Even George realized how stupid he was.
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Had to be in this TB.
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Portman's acting alone in this movie earns it an 'F'. Was she directed by Lucas to turn in such a wooden performance. Well, that plus a million other things earned this movie an F....minus.
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That's so 2 years ago
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