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The Friday Docback Revisits DOCTOR WHO Season/Series 7 on Blu!! Plus Neil Gaiman's New Cyberman Episode, And More!!

 

Merrick here...

 

With a quick revisitation of DOCTOR WHO Season Seven, Part One.  This batch of five Season/Series 7 episodes transmitted recently, and marked the exit of companions Amy (Karen Gillan) and Rory (Arthur Darvill) from the show.  

 

As these episodes have already been broadcast and have been systematically available from streaming on iTunes, Amazon, etc. I’ll be working on the assumption that...if you’re already seen them, or are at least aware of their content.  Therefore, there may be SPOILERS freely splashed throughout the following.  You’ve been warned.

 

More on S7 shortly.  But first...

 

 

 

 

INFOBITS RE: NEIL GAIMAN’S UPCOMING RETURN TO  DOCTOR WHO RELEASED!!  

 

We can confirm that the Cybermen will be menacing the universe once again when ‘Doctor Who’ returns for a run of eight epic episodes in Spring 2013. The iconic enemies will feature in an adventure directed by Stephen Woolfenden and written by the acclaimed Neil Gaiman whose previous episode was the Hugo Award-winning, 'The Doctor's Wife.' 

 ...says THIS BBC issuance...

 

The same piece goes on to identify guest stars Warwick Davis (WILLOW, Wicket the Ewok in RETURN OF THE JEDI, LIFE’S TOO SHORT, two LEPRECHAUN films), Tamzin Outhwaite (EAST ENDERS, HOTEL BABYLON) and Jason Watkins (BEING HUMAN, TOMORROW NEVER DIES, DIRK GENTLY) as “a band of misfits on a mysterious planet...”

 

Tamzin Outhwaitem by the way, is crazy hot.  She’ll probably have...like...five eyes, two noses, and tentacles for boobies in the real show, though.  Or something :-/

Love him or hate him it's clear The Moff knows a good looking woman when he sees one.  

Stephen Woolfenden (whose name I keep seeing as WOLENSTEIN, damn it), this installment’s director, helmed Second Unit on HARRY POTTERs THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX, HALF-BLOOD PRINCE, and DEATHLY HALLOWS 1/2 along with directing episode of TRINITY and ECHO BEACH.  

While BBC’s press release does not indicate as much, Wolfenstien’s IMDB page indicates that this Neil Gaiman Cyberman episode is the thirteenth episode of the Season.  

Making it, presumably, the final episode of Season/Series 7!?  

 

 

 

DOCTOR WHO Season Seven, Part One 

 

 

Firstly, I’ve said this before and I don’t expect to stop saying this anytime soon - Moffat-era DOCTOR WHO looks absolutely stunning in full HD.  And, yes, it looks absolutely stunning on this new Blu-ray set.  

 

DOCTOR WHO in HD is a transformative viewing experience.   If you’ve watched the show but have never seen S5+ in HD?  The HD used here is more than worth your time - consider revisiting these shows in High Def.  

 

If you’re thinking of picking up Moffat-era WHO and haven’t yet done so?  Be sure to start in HD.  It truly matters in this case.  Based on its work in DW and SHERLOCK, I’m willing to assert that Team Moffat knows...perhaps better than anyone else on television right now...how to utilize the HD formats and capabilities.  They grow and enrich their worlds and works exponentially through their well-considered, utterly-classy approach to their shows’ photography...and create potent imagery which, for the most part, simply isn’t offered on other titles.  

 

When revisiting S7 on this soon-to-be issued Blu-ray set, I found that my perspective on the episodes had changed very little since my initial mini-reviews of them a few months back (linked below).  If anything, my response was more favorable and appreciative than before - possibly because...well...it’s a little less awkward to watch these five shows sequentially now that Amy and Rory have cast off.  The sense of anticipation...and the guestimating and distraction caused by their impending, highly-publicized exit the first time around may’ve impacted my own personal viewing a bit earlier on.  I think I may’ve been looking too hard for clues, hidden meanings, foreshadowing, etc. - tendencies far easier to dodge now that Moffat & Co. have laid their cards on the table (as much as they ever do, that is).  

 

Regarding the departure of Amy and Rory:  I’ll admit to once more finding their finale utterly moving and surprisingly potent (especially given that I knew what was coming), although I am a tad frustrated by the raw mechanics of the affair.  The whole shebang feels, somehow, less permanent than I might’ve liked.  It feels like they’re still out there...still in play, just moved off the field.   Even though rules are put into place which, supposedly, would prevent them from being (easily) revisited...their fate, while bitter sweet, didn’t resonate as fully or sacrificially as I think it might have.  They still lived a full life.  They still accomplished.  They were still together.  They still...mattered.  

 

This said:  as my friend Ken Plume pointed out, “What else is there to do? It’s a time travel show and no one and nothing is ever truly gone or inaccessible because of that....”  Fair enough.  So,  this may well be an issue of DOCTOR WHO simply bumping up against the same paradox which has characterized it for so many years:  the show’s hugely flexible time/location hopping nature is one of its greatest strengths, but also an element which inherently dilutes it from time to time.  After all, without a sense of true permanency, jeopardy and ramifications are much harder to sense and grasp.  Or believe.  

 

What I’m going to write next is MY OWN CONJECTURE and EXTREMELY THEORETICAL....I have no inside knowledge that anything herein the case.  But, after watching these installments again, I am now more convinced than ever that a theory I espoused two or three months ago is still very plausible:  Amy and Rory are still out there, still functioning, because we are not done with them yet.  “The girl who waited” fairytale isn’t finished...and the ultimate endgame of Moffat-era WHO still hinges very much on Amelia Pond...and her availability in future resolutions.  I believe that, somehow, Amy will figure critically into whatever punch line awaits us...whatever zinger Moffat has in store before us before handing over the reigns of the show to us Docbackers. 

 

Some possible evidence...and these, I believe, are what Docbackers would call HATs!  

 

-- Remember how Amy brought the Doctor back from oblivion at the end  of the first Season, for example?  Memory.  Almost as if a fanciful construct  was being wished into existence (tying into her “raggedy Doctor” thing).   And what’s happening now to the Doctor on an apparently universal scale?  Records of his very existence seem scarcer and scarcer.  Even the Asylum of the Daleks prequel evokes a memory issue.  Connection?  Portent?  

 

-- Doctor Who? as a question.  At first I believed this was an existential question...a question of the Doctor’s true nature and identity.  Is he the angry, bitter, unpredictable god-like Doctor -  the one’ we’ve seen flash into play more than a few times in Season 7?  Or, is he a force of peace and good?  Or, is he...something else altogether?  Does the Doctor Who? question denote some entirely different layer which is not evident to us on the surface?  Might this question tie into the aforementioned loss of records and general awareness about the Doctor?  When I initially started to mull this, I felt that Doctor Who? (as a question) denoted the Doctor’s simmering identify crisis...one which might well come to a head in events leading to Matt Smith’s regeneration into whomever (go Idris Elba!  Although I’m still holding out for Bill Nighy...a fools, hope, in all probability...but a hope...).   And...in theory...Amy could play an integral part in helping the Doctor find his way back to himself, or to finding his way to whatever comes next.  She can, after all, SUMMON HIM FROM NON-EXISTENCE...(** ahem **) 

 

-- Moving FWD with connecting these admittedly HATish notions, is it possible that all roads lead back to one of two destinations...or possibly both?  1) The little girl sitting on her suitcase, waiting for that blue box to return.  A poignant and indelible image which could well mean much more than face value (admittedly, the fact that Moffat ended Amy’s run with that same image may’ve just been a sweet idea suggesting the full circleness of Amy’s adventure - but it could denote quite a bit more), and/or 2) the broken universe/cracks/etc. Maybe...reality didn’t reassemble as cleanly as we thought in The Pandorica Opens or The Big Bang (both Smith, Season 5).  Which, again, could also point back to Amy’s (continued?) importance in the overall process of Moffat-era WHO.  

 

Fun food for thought...feel free to take my humble and likely inadequate musing further in the Docback below.  In the meantime, our next new DOCTOR WHO is coming up with this year’s Christmas Special...on Christmas Day.  There will be a Docback for it, and we should be getting new material from that special soon I should think.  

 

Back next week with a return to classic WHO, possibly even chronologically again.  Frankly, I haven't decided.  

 

Stay tuned...

 

 

DOCTOR WHO Season Seven, Part One arrives November 13 in the US and is preorderable HERE on DVD and HERE on Blu-ray.  It's now available in the UK HERE -  with an agreeable number of packaging choices.  

 

Extras include...

 

 

Pond Life (6:12) - HD

 

Asylum of the Daleks Prequel (2:35) - HD

 

The Making of the Gunslinger (1:46) - HD

 

The Science of DOCTOR WHO (43:52) - HD

 

Comic-Con 2012 (11:04) - HD

 
 

 

 

___________

Glen Oliver

"Merrick" 

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PREVIOUS DOCBACKS 

 

 

 

[Season / Series Seven Docbacks - MOST RECENT DOCBACK IS HIGHLIGHTED]

 

The Coming of Season/Series 7

Asylum of the Daleks 

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship

A Town Called Mercy 

The Power of Three 

The Angels Take Manhattan 

 

 

 

   

[SEASON / SERIES SIX DOCBACKS]


"The Impossible Astronaut"

"Day of the Moon"

"The Curse of the Black Spot"

"The Doctor's Wife"

"The Rebel Flesh"

"The Almost People"

"A Good Man Goes To War"

"Let's Kill Hitler"

"Night Terrors"

 
 
 

"The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe" (2011 Christmas Special)  

 

 

[RETRO-WHO DOCBACKS ]

 

"An Unearthly Child" (Story #1)

"The Daleks" (Story #2)

"The Edge of Destruction" (Story #3)

"Marco Polo" (Story #4)

"The Keys of Marinus(Story #5)

"The Aztecs" (Story #6)

"The Sensorites" (Story #7)

"The Sensorites" (Story #7 - full DVD release) 

"The Reign of Terror" (Story #8)

"Planet of Giants" (Story #9) 

"Planet of Giants" (Story #9, full DVD release) 

"The Dalek Invasion of Earth" (Story #10)

"The Rescue" (Story #11) 

"The Romans"  (Story #12) 

"The Web Planet" (Story #13) / SHERLOCK - "A Scandal in Belgravia" (Story #4)

"The Crusade" (Story #14) 

"The Space Museum" (Story #15) 

"The Chase" (Story #16) 

"The Time Meddler" (Story #17) 

"Galaxy 4" (Story #18) 

"Mission to the Unkonwn" (Story #19) 

"The Myth Makers" (Story #20) 

"The Gunfighters" (Story #25)

"The Tomb of the Cybermen" (Story #37)

"The Mind Robber" (Story #45)

"The Krotons" (Story #47)

"The Seeds of Death" (Story #48) 

"Spearhead from Space" (Story #51) 

"The Abassadors of Death" (Story #53)

"The Colony in Space" (Story #58) 

"The Daemons" (Story #59) 

"Day of the Daleks" (Story #60) + Preview of the DotD Special Edition

"The Three Doctors" (Story #65) 

"Carnival of Monsters" (Story #66) 

"Death to the Daleks" (Story #72) 

"Invasion of the Dinosaurs" (Story #71) and SHERLOCK: "The Reichenbach Fall" (Story #6) 

"The Android Invasion" (Story #83) and SHERLOCK: "The Hounds of Baskerville" (Story #5) 

"The Face of Evil" (Story #89) 

"The Robots of Death" (Story #90) 

"The Talons of Weng-Chiang" (Story #91)

"The Sun Makers(Story #95)

"The City of Death" (Story #105)

"Nightmare of Eden" (Story #107) 

"Kinda" (Story #118)

"Snakedance" (Story #125) 

"The Five Doctors" (Story #129) 

"The Awakening" (Story #131)

"Frontios(Story #132)

"Resurrection of the Daleks" (Story #134) 

"The Caves of Androzani" (Story #136) 

"Vengeance on Varos" (Story #138) 

"Time and the Rani" (Story #144)

"Paradise Towers" (Story #145) + New WHOvian Documentary / Newsbits

"Dragonfire" (Story #147) 

"The Happiness Patrol" (Story #149) 

"The Greatest Show in the Galaxy" (Story #151) 

"Doctor Who: The Movie" (aka TVM) - McGann) 

DOCTOR WHO: THE COMPLETE SIXTH SERIES 

Merrick's Personal Journey With The Doctor (How Merrick Got Hooked On DOCTOR WHO)

DOCTOR WHO Title Sequences & DW At Comic-Con 2011

"The Crash of the Elysium" (Manchester version - interactive DOCTOR WHO adventure)

Why Eccleston Left, Here Comes Caroline Skinner, And Season/Series Six Part 1 on Blu-Ray And DVD

New Trailer For Season/Series Six Part 2

The Companions of DOCTOR WHO + New Trailer & Artwork For Season/Series 7  

Impromptu Docback!! + Galaxy 4 'Airlock' Coming to DVD, Christmas Special 2012, And More!!

The Friday Docback Mulls The 50th...

 

 

 

 

 
DOCBACK CODE OF CONDUCT
 
1) a Docback should be about completely open and free discourse regarding all things WHO with, obviously, some variation on subject matter from time to time - the real world intervenes, discussions of other shows are inevitable, etc.)... 

2) matters of SPOILAGE should be handled with thoughtful consideration and sensitivity.  Posts containing SPOILERS should clearly state that a SPOILER exists in its topic/headline and should never state the spoiler itself . "** SPOILER ** Regarding Rory" is OK, for example.  "** SPOILER ** Battle of Zarathustra" is fine as well.  " **SPOILER** Why did everyone die?"  Is NOT good.  
 
 
And, above all... 

3) converse, agree, disagree, and question as much as you want - but the freedom to do so is NOT a license to be rude, crass, disrespectful, or uncivilized in any way.  Not remaining courteous and civil, as well as TROLLING or undertaking sensational efforts to ignite controversy, will result in banning.  Lack of courtesy may receive one (1) warning before a ban is instigated.  Obvious Trolling or Spamming will result in summary banning with no warning.  One word posts intended to bump-up any Docback's figures on AICN's "Top Talkbacks" sidebar will be considered actionable Spam - they not only complicate efforts to access Docback from mobile devices, but impede readers' abilities to follow or engage in flowing conversation. 
 
In short, it's easy.  Be excellent to each other.  Now party on... 
 
    
 
Readers Talkback
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  • Nov. 9, 2012, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Dalek Masterplan should be next.

    by mosif

    Check out the Dalek's Masterplan next. The recon is awesome.

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Gaiman's ep

    by Sollasollewmn

    Gaiman tweeted that his is the penultimate episode in season 7. Moffat's writing the finale which, presumably, will springboard us into the 50th Anniversary.

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Exploding TARDIS

    by Deagol21

    I have yet to see any of the new Season 7 episodes (can't afford cable, and am waiting for the DVDs). But I have a question for anyone who could provide an answer or has any conjecture on it. Did they ever explain what caused the TARDIS to explode in Season 5? They ended that episode with that as a big mystery, and I still haven't heard anything about what caused it to happen. That was the crux of that season and the reason behind the need for the "rebooting of the Universe" out of Amy's/The Doctor's memories (something which I have some problems wrapping my mind around, and don't really like in the context of the show.) Anyway, if they haven't explained that yet, perhaps there might be a thread there they would use to bring Amy and Rory back into the story somehow. That said, I am personally glad to see them leave, and if they never explain the TARDIS exploding, that's fine. I've often thought that the whole "fairytale" theme that Moffat brought to this incarnation of the Doctor just didn't really fit with the show's history anyway. So if they conveniently forget about some of that stuff and move on to more classic Who-style stories, that's perfectly OK by me.

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Doctor who?

    by V'Shael

    I always thought one writer got his identity perfect. I'm the Doctor. Doctor of what? Well practically everything. But history mostly. You mean you study history? No, I make it better.

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Woohoo Cybermen!!!

    by photoboy

    They're still my favourite Doctor Who monster but if they're fucking defeated by love again I reserve the right to have the world's largest hissy fit on record.

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 2:18 p.m. CST

    A bit disappointed by series 7 so far, unfortunately

    by BEHEM Pascal

    To me season 6 was the greatest with its running storyline. Every episode had a resonance in A Good Man Goes to War, and even included some season 5 tidbits! And that was only half of the season. I watched multiple times The Wedding of River Song, which may be my single favorite episode of the series. The episodes of season 7 felt disconnected one fom the other, I missed this sense of direction. And I'm frankly getting tired of the Daleks. I didn't feel the exit of Amy and Rory to be that emotional. Even Martha's exit felt more earned. That being said, I still wouldn't miss an episode of Doctor Who, it is more satisfying to me that any other show on Earth!

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Why was the Statue of Liberty an angel?

    by Crooooooow

    When did the Weeping Angels start possessing statues instead of being statues?

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Exploding TARDIS

    by DoctorTom

    No, they really haven't explained what or who's behind the TARDIS exploding. All we know is that there was the voice saying Silence Must Fall, with the intimation that it's the Silence that were responsible. It might end up being somebody else, but the way the Doctor said it was the Silence at the end of Season 5 seems as much an authorial declaration as the Doctor declaring it.

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 3:15 p.m. CST

    Working title for Gaiman's episode discovered

    by DoctorTom

    literally discovered, on a script left in a cab... (SPOILERS insomuch as any title may be considered a spoiler) The Last Cyberman It gets you to wondering, doesn't it? Will there be a differentiation between our universe's Cybermen and the Pete's World Cybermen, and is the title referring to one of those factions while the other's still around? Or does it tie in to rumored wars between the Cybermen and the Daleks?

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Why the Statue of Liberty was a Weeping Angel

    by DoctorTom

    because if it had been the Chrysler Building that had been a Weeping Angel it would have just been silly.... The real reason that the Statue of Liberty was a Weeping Angel was because Moffat had the image of his head of a Weeping Angel Statue of Liberty looming over a building and wanted to work it into the script. It's the type of high concept movie thing he's been trying to fit into his stories. It's also worth noting (trying to head off the criticism that there was no way that the Statue could have walked over from Ellis Island without being seen) that there was a picture of the Statue of Liberty in the elevator in Winter Quay, and we know that the image of an Angel IS an Angel, so it might actually have been that image from the elevator becoming (SoL-)life size and walking about outside. It does raise the question of why not just touch people when their back's to the picture of the statue when they're in the elevator, but that's a completely different topic... As for when the Weeping Angels start possessing statues and animating them, The Angels Take Manhattan was the first time we've seen this. Of course, it should be remembered that this was the first time that we've seen the Angels well fed, rested, and able to flex their muscles (so to speak). Flesh and Stone/ Time of the Angels said that the ones Tennant ran into in Blink were barely surviving, while the ones in Flesh and Stone/Time of the Angels were just starting to be charged up - most had lost all distinction of actually looking like Weeping Angels. We do know that those were actually Weeping Angels and not just possessed statues in the 2 parter because the statues only had 1 head, and the race that had lived there had 2 heads. Of course, it's quite possible that there have been possessed statues in other Who stories but we just never noticed.

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Gaiman Who

    by Keith

    Yes, more please. Anyone who can give us "Doctors Wife" "Coraline" and "American Gods" Should write the 50th. He gets it.

  • There's still the reason for the exploding TARDIS. More of an explanation of the so-called interminable war between Kovarian's faction (which may be the Silence, or may just be the army that was allied with the Silence) Will we see the Doctor's first encounter with Lorna Bucket (from her point of view) Why the Doctor's getting increasingly okay with death - is it just because he's been running around without human companions too much, or is something else playing into it? Who actually remembers the Doctor now? And is the Doctor the only one (well besides Oswin affecting the Daleks) manipulating the results? Doc - Tor Who? What happens to the Order of the Silence after the Doctor's at the Fields of Trenzalore and has to answer the question? Is Silence Must Fall referring to the Order themselves? Why was the Teselecta looking into the Silence (in The Wedding of River Song) and who do they work for? One small thing still dangling from Season 6 that will probably be that season's equivalent of Rory's badge with the year 1990 on it - in The Rebel Flesh we saw the Doctor sitting behind a house of cards. Near the end of the scene, a couple of the cards had changed, there was a cutaway to a different character, and when the camera went back to the Doctor the cards were back to what they had been before. A continuity flub during production, or a sly reference that things in the universe were being changed? And if so, how much further is the change going? (And, is it ties in with Trenzalore, the Silence and all that stuff) And, the most important question of all: (slight spoilers) Will Strax get to wear a derby at some point while performing his butler duties in the Christmas special? This is the only one I can guarantee getting an answer to in the next couple of months.

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 3:58 p.m. CST

    HD viewing

    by meCPS

    Since the beauty of HD was mentioned, it's worth noting that even though BBCA on COMCAST is only available (at least in my area) in standard def, the Xfinity (on Demand) menu makes episodes available in HD.

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 5:21 p.m. CST

    Cybermen & Gangerdoc

    by veteran_of_mu

    Exploding Heads. That's really the problem with cybermen. No emotions sucks too. Makes them fragile and wimpy - prisoners in walking prisons. Give me cybermen that actually want to be cybermen, who want to conquer and convert because being a cyberman is better than human. That's to say, make them humans who have given up flesh because they had no alternative but death from old age. Make cybermen practically immortal, as tough as Daleks, and not emotionless but amoral, controlling all the Earth's mobile phones and banking systems for their own benefit, They Live style. And give them a leader who really is a worthy adversary for the Doc, a leader who hates death in all its forms and will fight to end it ... the Gangerdoc! OPENING SCENE: AN OLD PEOPLES' HOME IN LEADWORTH. SEVERAL LITTLE OLD MEN AND WOMEN ARE SEATED AROUND A BED IN WHICH THERE IS AN OLD WOMAN IN SOME APPARENT DISCOMFORT AND BREATHING HEAVILY. IRIS, A STOOPED CRONE: - and that's why she made the decision, you see. It was this or let the cancer spread to her brain. She signed the consent forms yesterday, Doctor. STARCHED NURSE: I have them filed and her living will delegates all power of attorney. GANGERDOC DRESSED IN GREEN SURGICAL SCRUBS: All right! Let's rock! HE PRESSES A BUTTON. ROBOTIC CLAMPS AND ARTICULATED ARMS EXTEND FROM ALL SIDES OF THE BED. A HYPODERMIC NEEDLE DESCENDS TOWARD THE PATIENT FOLLOWED BY SPINNING BONE SAWS. THERE ARE SQUELCHING SOUNDS. THE OLD PEOPLE GASP. GANGERDOC: Very good! Now on with the titanium cranium and ... sever the spinal cord! FX: SICKENING SLICING SOUND. Nurse! Prosthetic! STARCHED NURSE: Yes Doctor. SHE PRESSES A BEDSIDE BUTTON. A HEADLESS CYBER-BODY STOMPS INTO THE ROOM. NO CYBUS LOGO. GANGERDOC: Now then ... allons-y! HE LIFTS A GORE-DRIPPING CYBERMAN HEAD IN BOTH HANDS AND FASTENS IT TO THE CYBERMAN'S NECK WITH A TWIST. THERE IS A CLICK. CLOSE UP ON A DROP OF BLOOD RUNNING FROM THE NECK DOWN THE SHINY CYBER CARAPACE ... There we are Doris my love. How does that feel? CYBERMAN: That. Feels. Wonderful ... A. Bit. Tingly. And. The Voicebox. Is. Hard. To. Control. GANGERDOC: Sorry dear. It takes a while to get the hang of it. Run along and join the others. IRIS RISES AND STOPS THE CYBERMAN AS IT LURCHES TOWARD THE DOOR. IRIS: Doris, did it ... you know, did it hurt very much? CYBERMAN: Actually. It. Tickled. But. I'm. Fine. Now. IRIS: So do you think I should - CYBERMAN: When. You're. Ready. Iris. No. Hurry. GANGERDOC SMILES ...

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 7 p.m. CST

    Hey all...

    by Kevin Bolinger

    Sorry I am late with this, but here is Who Gives a WHOot ep 4, it is shorter than the others, but for good reason. http://darthdevious.podbean.com/2012/11/08/who-gives-a-whoot-episode-4/ Anyway...cannot wait for the Christmas ep...soon, very soon :P

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 8:03 p.m. CST

    Doctor Who season five at Amazon for $24 bucks

    by eveelcapitalist

    If you're interested. http://tinyurl.com/b3vu7ha

  • Nov. 9, 2012, 8:14 p.m. CST

    SPOILERS for Gaiman Episode!

    by ByTor

    Don't read if you don't want to be spoiled... Redesigned Cybermen. http://bit.ly/SANUHC

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 12:27 a.m. CST

    On the permanence of Amy and Rory's exit

    by Dreamfasting

    I think this is one of those cases where exit episide will aquire deep poignancy with age. As some point, our emotional reflexes get desensitived to the fact that a drama can reverse any event at the whim of a pen. Unless you have some sort of shark music (a signal that is never used in a false alarm, only when the shark really shows up), then sometimes the only way an exit can really aquire weight is to wait and watch time pass.

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 12:36 a.m. CST

    @crooooooow - Statue of Liberty

    by Dreamfasting

    Here's the rationalization that went through my head as I watched: the entire episode is actually set in the aftermath of a completely different epic story about a giant ultra-powerful angel leader being imprisoned in New York as that statue of Liberty (it's the city that never sleeps, a city where there will never be a moment when nobody at all is looking at the statue). The entire story the Doctor and company stumble into was actually a plot by the angels to empty New York for a moment of time to free their giant leader, a plan that almost succeeded save only the cataclysmic paradox.

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 4:34 a.m. CST

    Was their mention of Colin Baker doing I'm A Celebrity ?

    by dj_bollocks

    Thoughts ?

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 4:36 a.m. CST

    The HATs of Liberty

    by veteran_of_mu

    Perhaps the angels did a deal with the Silents. Post hypnotic suggestion that the moment you see the statue of liberty you must avert your gaze and forget that you saw her. Perhaps the statue of Liberty has a chameleon circuit, turning it invisible whenever it needs to sneak around. Perhaps, being a giant angel, the statue of Liberty only turns to stone when seen by a giant person. King Kong comes to mind. Or by a regular sized person up close. Perhaps the bigger an angel, the faster an angel. So the statue of liberty moves so fast you can't see her except when she happens to be hovering right over you. Perhaps that wasn't actually the statue of Liberty, just the ganger of the statue of Liberty, holding still just to be extra spooky. Remember how the image of the angel in the crashed Byzantium came out of the screen life size? Perhaps, the statue of liberty's image in the elevator also popped out life size. I think I like that last one the best. But I still don't like it very much ...

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 4:41 a.m. CST

    "Was there..." obviously... *facepalm*

    by dj_bollocks

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 7:42 a.m. CST

    Paul McGann is the Dark Doctor...

    by Captain Howdy

    ... according to the cover of issue 454 of Doctor Who Magazine, where he sports the updated 8th Doctor's look. http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/dwm-454-mcgann-is-the-dark-doctor-41534.htm I so want this to be a device to prep people for his (possible) return in the 50th.

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 8:31 a.m. CST

    @deagol1, AND--agree with Merrick re: NOT done w/ Amy YET

    by batmancw

    Deagol--they have never explained it specifically on the show & though many regular posters here have offered intriguing explanations, IMO, the reason the Tardis exploded has YET to be properly explained. I still believe that Moffat is playing a very "long game" with that aspect of the show & we WILL get the answer, but have yet ot do so. As for Amy & Rory--I gotta think that we're NOT officially "done" with them, or at least not with Amy. As the Doctor said to her--hers was the FIRST face he saw in this incarnation & while she may not be the last face he sees, I sure suspect that she will play SOME part in the story when its time for the Doctor to regenerate again.

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 10:14 a.m. CST

    LOVE series 7 so far!!!

    by Barrymore

    I've watched and re-watched ASYLUM and DINOSAURS and MERCY over and over...which has not happened since THE LODGER and VINCENT. I do have to admit, though, that season seven started with the great ASYLUM and has slid dowhhill with each episode. "POWERof 3" had HUGE potential--might have been one of the best ever--and then had one of the WORST ENDINGS EVER...I can't think of anything I've been so disappointed in recently more than the last 15 minutes of "3".

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 10:51 a.m. CST

    dj_bollocks

    by photoboy

    I'm conflicted about Colin doing I'm a Celebrity. On the one hand, I've always liked his take on the Doctor (especially with Big Finish) so I am pleased to see him on TV again. On the other, I'm not sure how I feel about seeing a childhood favourite eating kangaroo testicles. Also, Colin is mega-intelligent, it seems a bit beneath him to be appearing on such plebeian nonsense. Still if it boosts his profile and he loses some weight so that he can play the 6th Doctor in the 50th anniversary I'm all for it! ;)

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 12:06 p.m. CST

    I hope they do another update on the Cybermen design.

    by Royston Lodge

    The current design is too plasticky, and not terribly cyber-ish.

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 12:54 p.m. CST

    royston lodge - look at the link bytor gave

    by DoctorTom

    I like the new look - clearly derived from the last one, but still some differences.

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Repost (from the last DW posting)-We got Asylum of the Daleks...

    by Red43jes

    ...so howz about we get an equilavant with Cybermen? Honestly, isn't it time to address the situation of Mondas Cybermen, and alternate earth Cybermen? I'd love to see a civil war between the two...and the Doctor caught in the middle of it. We got every type of Dalek in Asylum, time for every type of Cybermen...

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST

    The bytor link (spoilers)

    by dj_bollocks

    They don't look like Cybus industry Cybermen... Fingers crossed anyway ! And with regards to I'm A Celebrity... Colin doesn't seem a good fit for it, but who knows he might be a revelation once you sweep away the fluff. I wouldn't normally watch it, but I'm curious...

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 2:49 p.m. CST

    My link

    by ByTor

    Personally I like the redesign. It's not perfect, but IMO it's closer to the legacy designs than the Cybus design was.

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 3:45 p.m. CST

    re: rory and Amy's departure, it occured to me...

    by Rebel Scumb

    it might have worked better to simply end their story with the end of series 6, they believe the doctor is dead, river gives them the happy news that that is not the case, and they continue with their normal lives all the better for having known him. In a way explaining their absence less, would have worked better than explaining it more (other than a full on death for both of them) After all we already had the goodbye at the end of the god complex, and the wedding of river song is like a swan song to that, one last hoorah. I dunno. I'll revisit all these episodes a year from now when the full series 7 blu-ray comes out, hopefully the JLC era gets the writing back on track. Sorry I havent been around much lately.

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 8:02 p.m. CST

    Just how many Last Cybermen are there?

    by veteran_of_mu

    Apparently over the years every fan and his dog has had a go at producing a ~Last Cyberman~ episode. I found over a dozen of them on youtube. Perhaps Gaiman should retitle his ep. ~The Last Last Cyberman~? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNdgqpDVg_c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIh10Rf_mp8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtOgEYg-des http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESJxDOM96Ag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uF5dcGZssg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sf1b5OfVOQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dqgaSgJRB4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1LxLU1tCKU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TfdOy_fBoE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=783WpUJJGoc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PayQkCcpCc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHyCaN_345Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYMByhWmyr4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwpf5sd_gb4

  • Nov. 10, 2012, 10:52 p.m. CST

    I will say this about the new Cybermen design...

    by Kevin Bolinger

    They look a hell of alot better than the new Robocop design :P

  • Nov. 11, 2012, 4:39 a.m. CST

    @Doctom just think of the spinoff potential

    by veteran_of_mu

    Getcher ultimate cyberman pen right here folks! Special ink that not only writes, but deletes too!

  • The Silence Pen - turn away from the paper, and you forget what you wrote.

  • Nov. 11, 2012, 12:26 p.m. CST

    doctortom: Hmm, still pretty plasticky.

    by Royston Lodge

    Thee Cybermen costumes need some metal, and scuff marks, and rust, and wires, and gears, etc. More like IG-88 and less like a mannequin.

  • Nov. 11, 2012, 12:28 p.m. CST

    red43jes: Not EVERY type of cyberman.

    by Royston Lodge

    The very first cyberman design was a guy with pantyhose on his face and a toaster oven on his chest.

  • Nov. 11, 2012, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Tamsin Outhwaite!

    by shibleybc

    Nice bum :)

  • Nov. 11, 2012, 12:58 p.m. CST

    Cybermen!

    by shibleybc

    Liking the new design, but it's more what they do on screen than how they look, lets hope Mr Gaiman converts his love for them into fear for us! :)

  • Nov. 11, 2012, 9:16 p.m. CST

    darthdevious I was thinking the same thing!

    by ComputerGuy68

    They look so much better then the new Robocop.

  • Nov. 11, 2012, 11:43 p.m. CST

    Still waiting for: JENNY WHO IN OUTER SPACE!

    by Barrymore

    THe spinoff that never happened...but still should.

  • Nov. 12, 2012, 9:27 a.m. CST

    Cybermen: mortality, heresy

    by Kathryn Gail

    I liked caractacuspotts' idea of the Cybermen being a threat not only because they want to assimilate us but because some of us want to be assimilated because we're facing death, but I think nursing homes just pose another Craig's Love threat in that there are bound to be some oldsters who mainly want to hug their great grandchildren and so are automatically on a defeat-by-love-from-within path (although it could offer great health care commentary but please please please let's not go there, that's what I need my escapism FROM). But an oppressed, war-torn or famine-ridden region could be an obvious first stronghold--perhaps even amongst resistance fighter types we'd normally identify with. MY HERESY: I do not object to any of the Cyberman designs (with the exception that in 2013 it'll be difficult to suspend disbelief for painted rubber boots and jumpsuits)! Sorry, it's just the plain truth. I think all the new-series ones look impressive and lethal (it's the plot choices that shift their impact), but also the haphazardness of some of the early ones, whether intentional or due to budget/time constraints, drove home the alarming extra element of their having forfeited human intangibles such as aesthetics or the need to look impressive. True, from a manufacturing standpoint, a clean, uniform finish would probably be more durable and thus ultimately economical, or. . . they might just stop the process when certain criteria are met and not bother about the rest. Those 1960s half-done Cybermen are, to me, some of the whoniverse's most chilling images.

  • Nov. 12, 2012, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Not Heresy

    by ByTor

    I don't think it's heresy. I, too, was fine with pretty much all the Cyber designs, including the RTD ones. My initial reaction was that at least the RTD ones really, convincingly felt like they were metal. And massive. I am, however, looking forward to the new ones, as I'm ready to be done with the stomp-stomp. Also, hopefully, the *delete* business is a thing of the past.

  • Nov. 12, 2012, 1:01 p.m. CST

    royston lodge I agree to a point...

    by Red43jes

    ...yes, the original were dudes in Panty Hose. Lets face it, if they did a tribute as a sort to the original, as in putting them in a silvery type of justspuit, with the headgear and chest piece that looks identical, I think most people wouldn't bitch. I dig how the original Cybermen had the chestpiece/head light thing, and when they talked, it was creepy. Add to it that the old school cybermen seem taller (is this just me?)...hence, I'd like to see a sort of return of them. Again, doesan't have to be exact. That design, and the Peter Davison era Cybermen are my favorites.

  • Nov. 12, 2012, 1:04 p.m. CST

    stomp stomp

    by Kathryn Gail

    Yeah the stomp stomp made some preliminary sense in that it was a relaunch, a reintroduction, and they didn't have a bunch of episodes over which to convey ADVANCING HORDES, NAZIESQUE UNIFORMITY, KNOWING THEY'RE COMING WON'T SAVE YOU, so fair enough. And they were of more recent origin thanks to a madman, so it stands to reason he might be obsessed with making a big noise. But then it got old really quickly. And something like eerie hydraulics would have been better all along.

  • Nov. 12, 2012, 3:22 p.m. CST

    The cyberman value propositions

    by veteran_of_mu

    1) We are cybermen. We come from Mondas. We are better than you. So you must convert or die. 2) We are cybermen. We are being exterminated. So we must convert you before we go extinct. 3) We are cybermen. We used to be you, but this guy thought we didn't like having emotions and converted us. We pretty much do what he says. 4) We are cybermen. That guy converted us but now we would like to conquer the daleks. We don't much care who the fuck you are so long as you're good at stomping. 5) We are cybermen. We're buddies with all the people who don't like the Doctor. We think he's a menace. Why? Um ... because that's what we hear, okay? 6) We are cybermen. Maybe something to do with silents. Yeah, most likely. Look, don't ask us, we already said where the kid was. Please stop blowing up our ships. Thanks.

  • Nov. 12, 2012, 4:48 p.m. CST

    caractacuspotts

    by ByTor

    Brilliant, sir. Quite brilliant.

  • Nov. 12, 2012, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Gotta love the "Revenge of the Cybermen" costumes: Scuba wet-suits...

    by obijuanmartinez

    ...much-maligned story, but I've always liked it!

  • Unrelated of course, but - Just watched Saturday's new episode of "Merlin". While King's 'Dark Tower' series may never hit a creen big or small, it was interesting the episode's title was "The Dark Tower", and gave us a sliver of what might have been w/ Javier Bardem as Roland of Gilead, last of the Gunslingers, and descendant of Arthur Eld: http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=do9&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1059&bih=767&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsu&tbnid=RLcModGZdZHtHM:&imgrefurl=http://www.tvblog.ro/&docid=yVoiHKh5jobMuM&imgurl=http://www.tvblog.ro/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/merlin_2008.5x06.the_dark_tower-0_28_25-001120.jpg&w=720&h=405&ei=XtKhUOnjJ-XD0QHYv4GgBA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=718&vpy=237&dur=1065&hovh=168&hovw=300&tx=243&ty=66&sig=104255799858809604573&page=3&tbnh=143&tbnw=244&start=40&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:24,s:20,i:234

  • Nov. 13, 2012, 8:52 a.m. CST

    obijuanmartinez

    by ByTor

    Love your posts, man, but please oh please start using bit.ly. :D

  • Nov. 13, 2012, 9:35 a.m. CST

    obijuanmartinez - scuba suits

    by DoctorTom

    Revenge of the Cybermen was my first exposure to them - I also like it despite it's flaws. As a bonus we get to hear the Doctor yell *Harry Sullivan is an imbecile!* Also, since it was my first, I didn't know that Cybermen weren't supposed to be short, strutting Welshmen (now they can use tall, stompy Welshmen). This was one where I liked the cybermen design despite it obviously being wet suits (having the top thing on the head work as a blaster just made sense), and I also liked the effect showing people getting affected. The Vogans (or Vogans - we want the Who version here, not the Hitchhiker's Guide version) didn't impress me as much, though. The asteroid up close in the viewport when the station was about to crash was so obviously some terrain on a roller drum that you just have to say *bless their hearts for coming up with that when they had no budget* - they could have just had the Doctor reading numbers off a control panel, but they attempted something to make it more dramatic.

  • Nov. 13, 2012, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Revenge

    by ByTor

    Yeah, I definitely have a soft spot for Revenge of the Cybermen, mostly for the same reasons as doctortom. It's not a classic, but it's a good watch.

  • Nov. 13, 2012, 3:10 p.m. CST

    @bytor: Sorry! That Dark Tower link was BRUTALLY over-long. Duly noted!

    by obijuanmartinez

  • Nov. 13, 2012, 3:16 p.m. CST

    THE BORG

    by obijuanmartinez

    Realizing of course that ST's Borg are a commodity muchly derived from the Cybermen, I do like the up-close, grisly bits (seeing the amputated limbs, eye-sockets, etc.) that make Borg assimilation a MUCH more visceral experience than Cyber-conversion (Lytton standing in a conversion chamber, looking like he'd just come off a ganja bender w/ Bunny Wailer & Peter Tosh circa 1976, for example). They have gotten a bit more fleshy bits in the new series, but given the viewing experience of say "ST: First Contact" vs. some of the more recent Dr. Who Cybermen stories, one gives me the willies, one does not Sidecar note: The Who / Trek x-over vs. the Cybermen is really losing me. Thought it'd have been better, but they're losing the impact / coolness factor of bringing Borg & Cybermen together...

  • Nov. 14, 2012, 4:52 a.m. CST

    @Merrick This Friday should be a good one !

    by dj_bollocks

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/The-Doctor-Returns-for-Children-in-Need 2 new snippets of Doctor Who goodness on Friday night

  • Nov. 14, 2012, 4:58 a.m. CST

    Cybermen development..

    by dj_bollocks

    I would be interested in developing the Cybermen into a more Borg type direction although I'm sure some people might hate that idea... They should probably remain faceless, but I wouldn't have a problem with the Telos Cybermen having "assimilated" parts from other species to improve themselves. It perhaps takes it more into a Resident Evil style experiment type situation. It might give them the fear back which let's be fair they haven't had for years... Morphing arms or some shit like that would give them that "Holy Shit !" Remembrance Of The Daleks moment... And make them more of a threat...

  • They still have their hands visible, and the articulating human facial musculature. Actually, I had a Cybermen Special magazine that I picked up @ a convention in the late-80s that had a great painting of a proto-Cyberman without armor / coverings that was quite Borg-like, and eerie to boot. Can't find it, and I can't Google the pic anywhere - ARGH! The magazine cover had the iconic "Invasion" pic of the Cybermen in London near st. Paul's Cathedral...

  • Nov. 14, 2012, 12:15 p.m. CST

    Colin Baker says no classic-Who actors for 50th anniversary

    by DoctorTom

    That actually wouldn't surprise me, though I'd still like to see some show up (in season 8 if not the 50th itself). Of course, that raises the question of whether Paul McGann counts. They could work him in if they want. Depending on what they do it might even work well. If they're pulling Doctors out of their timestreams, then McGann could be pulled out when he's about to make a crucial decision in the Time War and he's wondering which way he should go. It would get to add a bit more to the Time War without really having to show the war itself (which would be for the best, you could have McGann describing all sorts of things that would have been impossible on their budget) and we'd get to see McGann again. I doubt that they'll do it, though, unless they're bringing in some others as well - Tennant, see if they could convince Eccleston (which, if they get McGann, could make a good counterpoint - with the different Doctors afterwords we can show the different stages of coping with the aftermath of the Time War). Maybe have Tennant twice since there's two of them running around in different universes. For some reason I suspect that Baker's right and that we won't have any past Doctors back (except maybe in little flashbacks). If I were to bet I think it would be more likely that we get Susan and/or Ian returning for the special. And Daleks showing up in the story.

  • Nov. 14, 2012, 12:47 p.m. CST

    @doctom: (Channeling my inner Eric Cartman) "LAME!!!"

    by obijuanmartinez

    Seriously though - How do you have a 50th (that's FIFTY) anniversary show without letting OG Who represent? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. Moffton: We have a problem...

  • Nov. 14, 2012, 1:50 p.m. CST

    obijuanmartinez

    by DoctorTom

    Letting original Who represent does not necessarily mean having older Doctors show up. Like I said, you could have Ian or Susan in the story, and that's as old-school as you're going to find for the show. Or have him show up in the junkyard again. Brief flashback clips could be used if you want to represent the old series. Look at the 25th anniversary. You had a show that involved Totter's Lane, Coal Hill School, the Daleks, and a name check of Omega without bothering to bring back older Doctors or older companions. It's possible that they might do something along those lines (it wouldn't surprise me if the Kennedy Assassination shows up in the 50th anniversary story). I'm sure if they use the story to bring back Romana, people might not worry as much about not having older Doctors. Heck, bring back Omega in a good way, not in an Arc of Infinity way, along with Romana. People would say that would be fine. I doubt we'll get something though like the Doctor having to find the Key to Time again and discovering that segments are with his past selves. You might get that in some spinoff media, but I don't see the television show doing it.

  • Nov. 15, 2012, 8:35 a.m. CST

    You turn around and--

    by Kathryn Gail

    Neil at Nantes Utopiales of course deflects direct spoilergrabs with wry Neilisms about his episode having a beginning, a middle and and end and so forth, but declares that he's making 60s Cybermen and what scared him about them as a kid was that they DIDN'T MAKE ANY NOISE. http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-who/23423/doctor-who-neil-gaiman-talks-cybermen Just ending the stomp stomp is enough, but I can't help wondering whether this also makes them. . . SILENT(s).

  • Nov. 15, 2012, 8:48 a.m. CST

    meanwhile, it retroville

    by Kathryn Gail

    And I did in fact watch Image of Fendahl, Claws of Axos (from my 'with things over their eyes' theme a week or two back) and Face of Evil over the past week or so, but can't seem to form thoughts about them. Thoughts that are in words. November is dark, and I keep turning into a sleeping bear. I should try taking my brain out and banging it on the desk again. It's so late in the thread, anyway! So here's a link to a clip of Neeva the Shaman using dead communications equipment as ceremonial objects. Interwhatdidyousay link? No no, it's a link IN YOUR MIND. I suggest it, you make it up in your head. Or put on your tiny suede costume, arm yourself with a knife and a Janus thorn, and go out into the web hunting and gathering for it. I cannot help you, I am a sleeping bear.

  • Nov. 15, 2012, 8:58 a.m. CST

    I predict far, far too many mashup t-shirts. . .

    by Kathryn Gail

    . . .of Dark Elves and Cybermen. Please tell me this fate is not a fixed point in time. http://www.splashnewsonline.com/2012-11-14/chris-hemsworth-looks-beaten-on-thor-2-set/ Allegedly you're also looking at C. Eccleston in there as Malekith the Accursed, but. . . yeah it's pretty much just costumes standing around, those pics!

  • Nov. 15, 2012, 10:45 a.m. CST

    patrickstewartsaweverything

    by DoctorTom

    So, would Silents converted to Cybermen still be able to influence people by posthypnotic suggestion? It would certainly bring a new menace to Cybermen saying *you will be like us*

  • Nov. 15, 2012, 10:46 a.m. CST

    mashup t-shirts

    by DoctorTom

    I should be getting my Doctor Who/Madmen gimmick t Shirt shortly (MadMan in a Box) I think this week their t shirt is Men of Scarves, with the Tom Baker Doctor, the Benedict Cumberbatch Sherlock and Harry Potter.

  • Nov. 15, 2012, 10:47 a.m. CST

    I am amused, though

    by DoctorTom

    even though it was posted by Merrick, the other thread (with the promo picture) seems to be drawing out all the haters who won't normally post in the regular Docbacks.

  • Nov. 15, 2012, 10:57 a.m. CST

    I noticed that too, doctortom

    by ByTor

    In fact, I started browsing the comments, then went flying back up to see if the code of conduct was in effect. Ehh, I'll just stick to my rule of avoiding non-docbacks. :)

  • Would the Cybermen even remember what they were doing, or drop the conversion halfway through leaving YET MORE HORRIFYING half-done Cybersilents out for revenge (or would Cybermen be immune)? I'm about 900 years old and I'D hide behind the couch from THAT (until I forgot why I was hiding) (unless they lose their posthypnotic powers). . . I have the (or a) Mad Man in a Box mashup shirt too! But a Cymbermen/Elves mashup would have to be at least that well done.

  • Nov. 16, 2012, 9:01 a.m. CST

    patrickstewartsaweverything

    by DoctorTom

    If you had another Silent around, telling the cyberman to finish the conversion it might not be bad. Logically I'd expect the conversion to stop the posthupnotic suggestion stuff to not work after conversion, but since it would be even scarier from a story perspective I'm sure it would. Next up on the improbable conversion list: Cyberood. They'd need metal sheathing for those little outside brains, not to mention some good cable sheathing. Cut off from the main Ood brain, it should be easier for the cyberprogramming to take. These I'd almost want done more like the Tenth Planet Cybermen so you could still have the mouth tendrils with the conversion.