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Why CLOUD ATLAS And HOLY MOTORS Are The Most Important Films Of The Year
Nordling here.
I'm bathing in the glory of movies this week. Fantastic Fest, with films from all over the planet, with no genre untouched, no subject matter unexamined, has never failed to broaden my horizons and deepen my film enthusiasm. This week, I may have seen two films that have changed my life. To call them masterpieces seems oddly reductive, because I know for many people that's subjective. But, frankly, I don't give a shit. I cannot put these movies away in my mind, and I truly believe that 2012 has seen two of the most challenging, rewarding, flat-out amazing movies ever made. And they both will likely fail at the box office.
I might be wrong, but I don't think so. American moviegoers are lazy. Anything remotely challenging, whether to their self-bloated sense of morality or their anti-intellectualism, is ostracized and thrown to the wayside. I'm not even coming from a place of elitism here either. I fully admit to loving the occasional superhero movie that comes down the pipe, the fun genre movie. But when a movie comes along that makes me feel alive, like CLOUD ATLAS and HOLY MOTORS did this week, I have to stand back and acknowledge the amazing skill and abilities of the filmmakers. Both movies are, to put it bluntly, two of the best films to have been made in years. Perhaps I'm being too cynical about American moviegoers, who have been known to surprise me. There is indeed a hunger for the new and it's quite possible that audiences will embrace these films. God, I hope so.
You can't come at HOLY MOTORS from a casual moviegoer standpoint. The movie requires you to engage with it - intellectually, emotionally, spiritually. The first few hours after I saw it, I still wasn't sure exactly what it was that I saw. I kept trying to crack the code, so to speak, trying to figure the movie out, trying to understand the angles. I won't lie, I was intimidated by the movie, and by fellow reviewers' reactions to it. Ever since Cannes, it has been a film on my radar, and as Fantastic Fest drew closer, I was concerned that I wouldn't "get it."
I needn't have worried. Of course I wasn't going to get it. HOLY MOTORS is an incredibly dense movie, but at the same time it requires the audience to experience it and not be so concerned with how everything works. Leos Carax, a filmmaker whose work I was not familiar with before this movie, has made a film about the movie between the frames, a non-linear breakdown of cinema that comes from a place of love, fascination, and humility to the power of cinema itself, and it requires you to engage.
So what is HOLY MOTORS about? It's about the power of cinema to tell stories, and how even the filmmaker can feel trapped in the various worlds that he creates, but that he must continue because he has no choice in the matter. Oscar (Denis Levant) takes the multiple roles that the audience demands - we are the observer, and demand that each scene play out and gives us catharsis, any kind of catharsis, and Oscar must go from setpiece to setpiece, playing to the gods. Whether it's a green-suited troll eating flowers, or a man on his deathbed, or another man stepping into a musical, Oscar must perform, telling his stories to feed a neverending hunger from the audience.
HOLY MOTORS is a movie about catharsis. Not just our own, but the filmmaker's as well. And it will not be easily explained. People demanding onean explanation will be disappointed, and they should be - this movie is better than that. HOLY MOTORS is an experience, a cinematic feast, so dense and rewarding that I'm nervous seeing it again because I will lose that magic feeling I got when I first saw it. It is like no other movie that I've experienced before, and I will experience it again. It is joyous and a celebration of everything that I love about cinema.
And now, an interval:
CLOUD ATLAS is also dense, but it builds into moments of beauty and optimism. These days, the optimism that Andy Wachowski, Lana Wachowski, and Tom Twyker's movie puts boldly on display is almost a revolutionary act. With its multiple storylines and genres, and actors playing multiple roles, races, and sexes, CLOUD ATLAS will come across to some as overly complicated. It isn't. The directors weave each story like a tapestry - a symphony, if you prefer, and CLOUD ATLAS has movements, highs and lows, and the way the movie is edited together gives the audience such an emotional ride that in the end we are full of the film's beauty.
To break the movie down to its essential plot, like HOLY MOTORS, is doing the movie a disadvantage. It is also a movie that should be experienced, but unlike HOLY MOTORS, CLOUD ATLAS takes us on a journey through genres and through storytelling itself. Some characters are good, some evil (and some played by the same actor), and each story has its own build and climax. But each scene is edited in a way that comments on the scene before it, and this gives CLOUD ATLAS the feeling that it is all truly one story, one catharsis, one singular experience.
This is the best work these directors have ever done. It's not even a question. CLOUD ATLAS wants to change you. It wants to show you a world of infinite glory and love, love that literally has no boundaries, a shared experience through the centuries and through space, and even through genre. It was the perfect film for this fest, a film festival that celebrates challenging cinema and genre. It is a singular work and both HOLY MOTORS and CLOUD ATLAS are why I love cinema and the infinite possibilities that it represents. What an amazing week.
Readers Talkback
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Honestly, I've been hearing spectacular things. I'm so excited. It's gonna be my 2001, I hope. -Namaste-
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this movie looks a little too dense...has zero mass market appeal and it will play as a niche film...I love the Wachowski's visual style and I'm sure this movie will not disappoint in that area but overall the scope is too broad...this will play like Malick's Tree of Life- the few who see it will enjoy it
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Sept. 26, 2012, 10:52 p.m. CST
Everyone I know who has seen Cloud Atlas this week say it's brilliant
by Hardboiled Wonderland
Granted, that's only 6 and 1/2 people, but still. Leave your expectations at the door, and don't watch any trailers, read the book, or read anything about the film. That's the advice from the 6 and 1/2 people I know who saw it. As a consequence, it blew their minds.
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The Wachowskis made a lttle movie called The Matrix, which was a follow up to an even littler movie called Bound. These two films are incredible, hell, the Matrix is a fucking masterpiece and I don;t throw that word around lightly. You're aying that Cloud Atlas is leagues above The Matrix and Bound? Even going so far to state that you can go so far qs to state that this statement is stated with no questions asked, that's it's not even a question? Really? Oh, I am so fucking there.
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Sept. 26, 2012, 11:23 p.m. CST
AGAIN...Science Fiction ain't always about robots and spaceships but it looks like Cloud Atlas might have the best of both worlds? eg grand concepts and hardware.
by foles
I'll be seeing but lets hope they pull it off?
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Sept. 26, 2012, 11:27 p.m. CST
So heres the BIG question! What would you rather see? A great conceit attempted or more formulaic *LCD action tripe pretending to be science fiction?
by foles
Give me a valiant attempt over *Lowest Common Denominator pap any day!
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Sept. 26, 2012, 11:28 p.m. CST
Cloud Atlas is the kind of bullshit "high concept, too cool for you " bullshit...
by kstewandthecuntsman
That made Avatar 600 billion. And Avatar was a piece of shit. Fucking awful. Not that I imagine Cloud Atlas will make any money. Flop City, kids. And no amount of people telling the world how amazing it is, and what a cinematic experience, blah blah blah bullshit, will change that. The Master is amazing. On par with There Will Be Blood. And this is my opinion, because I can't tell you how many people I recommended TWBB to, who are like, wtf? Cause it's not for everyone. But it was the best picture that year, No Country should have been a close second. But, at the risk of contradicting myself, Cloud Atlas looks like SHIT. Will there be people who find it awe inspiring? probably. But the same could be said of an Ernest movie. But TWBB had some actual substance behind it. Fuck Cloud Atlas. Another Fountain waiting to happen. Watch it shit the bed at the box office and then be amazed.
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Sept. 26, 2012, 11:38 p.m. CST
Most Important Film of the Year?? Wreck-It Ralph
by kstewandthecuntsman
Cause it's like Toy Story but with video game characters. And video games are cool. And it won't be as ridiculously shitty as Toy Story 3 was. Seriously, can't wait for Wreck-It. And Toy Story 3 was way overrated. Also Sarah Silverman is a hot broad. Watch the first 5 minutes of Way of the Gun and be amazed.
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Are there countries rejecting the blockbusters for the films of Paul WS Anderson, Lars von Triers or Terrence Malick?
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Sept. 27, 2012, 12:18 a.m. CST
And I don't think its asking too much to make an intelligent film
by MrD
that isn't also self-important douchebaggery. There seems to be too few filmmakers that know how to actually craft a proper narrative. The Michael Bays get wrapped up in the booms, the art house film festival crowd falls in love with imagery, but too few can just tell a damn good story.
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I guess "most important film of the year" is open to interpretation. Without hitting up google, what other films came out the same year as Star Wars? Huh...yeah, not so much.
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Not coming from a place of intellectual elitism, yet the American film public is "lazy", "anti-intellectual", and "possessed of a self-bloated sense of morality". Hm. Interesting. Not sure how blood didn't spray from your nose given the complex twisting your brain had to have done to come up with those wildly opposing statements. "it requires the audience to experience it and not be so concerned with how everything works". This is exactly the kind of thing that art school students say to defend shit narratives. "Of course I didn't get it." Well then what the fuck was the point of the film? Please tell me we aren't in the company of some ars gratia artis mental masturbator here. Art is communication. Narrative art is an attempt to communicate through story. If you don't "get it", if the message/story wasn't communicated, then the art in question has in some way failed. And sure, you could take the blame on yourself because the art is "dense", but the artist isn't blameless. Further, acting like "oh, the american public isn't interested in challenging cinema" doesn't help anyone. You're not bringing anyone new into the fold. You're just preaching to the pretentious choir and excluding anyone you deem not cool or smart enough to hang with you and your art school buddies.
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Annie Hall Close Encounters of the Third Kind Winnie the Pooh 3 great movies from 1977 without googling :) p.s. I'm a huge Star Wars geek
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I read this line: "American moviegoers are lazy. Anything remotely challenging, whether to their self-bloated sense of morality or their anti-intellectualism, is ostracized and thrown to the wayside." I know it's trendy these days to shit on America. As for this reader, you disgust me. As if the rest of the world is so much more cultured and intellectual while big dumb mega-block-busters make just as much if not more money all around the world than they do in the U.S. of A. Example: 'Battleship' Domestic: $65,233,400 21.5% + Foreign: $237,602,860 78.5% = Worldwide: $302,836,260 Source: http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=battleship.htm You may be embarrassed by your fellow countrymen, sir, but I and many other readers are not. Please attempt to veil your self-loathing and ignorance while sticking to entertainment blogging.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 12:45 a.m. CST
I actually agree with Nordling re: dumbass American audiences
by Hardboiled Wonderland
It's why good original European films have to be remade in English with Hollywood actors, because dumbass Americans can't read subtitles.
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Full of just as many dumbass moviegoers slurping the supersized bucket of shit at the latest Michael Bay shitfest.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 12:47 a.m. CST
So even if Cloud Atlas fails, BRAVO to the filmmakers for being daring and original and having a fucking go at something different
by Hardboiled Wonderland
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Sept. 27, 2012, 12:50 a.m. CST
You can't come at HOLY MOTORS from a casual moviegoer standpoint.
by Nintendarth
So, nobody should go?
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Sept. 27, 2012, 12:51 a.m. CST
When someone tells me I have to engage a film to enjoy it, I say -
by Nintendarth
Ummmmm, no. That's the movie's job, to bring me in. I'm the VIEWER - not the creator. Trying to massage my intellectualism by telling me I'm somehow a participant in the so-called process is crap. Does it entertain? No? Done. Pass.
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Yelowface sucks.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 12:57 a.m. CST
http://www.racebending.com/v4/blog/cloud-atlas-conversation-yellowface-prejudice-artistic-license/
by Nintendarth
Everyone, I urge you to click this link. Boycott the racist film CLOUD ATLAS. Do not see it. Do not support it. Do not support those who support it. Speak out in opposition to Asian actors being kept by the wayside while yellowface prevails. We're better than this.
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You nailed it, absolutely agree with your synopsis! Hate when people try to defend drivel by sticking their nose in the air and looking down at people.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 1:08 a.m. CST
Action/sci-fi fans will walk out long before Cloud Atlas gets to the "good" parts.
by Silv
It's a wonderfully written book, entirely in the first person if I recall correctly. However the articulate opening is going to quickly frustrate and turn off your average Matrix fan, assuming it hasn't been dumbed down. Also, I didn't find the book particularly cinematic (not that it was trying to be). The two future stories for example struck me as not being nearly as imaginative as what the trailers have shown. Mixed genre films can be real difficult to pull off, especially with as wide a range of eras as this book has. Could be a great film or a total disaster.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 1:11 a.m. CST
Dear Haters, enjoy Transformers 5 and all the other reboots and remakes, you losers.
by Hardboiled Wonderland
The rest of us are quite happy to be seeing something new and different.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 1:19 a.m. CST
So they didn't have to rip off Grant Morrison this time?
by Bedknobs and Boomsticks
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Sept. 27, 2012, 1:19 a.m. CST
Granted (har har), Morrison has often ripped off Moorcock.
by Bedknobs and Boomsticks
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Dude, your crazy is showing. Seriously, shut the fuck up.
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I will quote the title of a fantastic mid-nineties Stephen Dorff slacker flick: SO FUCKING WHAT. Great films bomb all the time. That doesn't make them less great. Tell me the discs you spin at home the most aren't the cult classics?
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... and Twilight proves it.
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so eager to turn your brain off because that's the hallmark of a great movie right that's what you keep fucking telling us its great just turn your brain off man, its more fun for big explosions and pretty flashing visuals, otherwise it's a one way road to nappy-time during Inception and "Oh I raged because The Dark Knight Rises didn't have enough flashy and too much talky", isn't it you buffoon? YOU perpetrate this crap on us, then you dare admonish us? I think it's safe to conclude Harry Knowles himself has contributed to the continued downfall of Hollywood cinema as we know it by promotion of pure utter dreck for reasons motivated by personal emotional decisions versus a film's genuine merits. but hey whatever ur good at what you do youre really "Someone that knows that MANBAT & CLAYFACE could be awesome."
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"Could" be is a fuckload of different than "Will" be
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Sept. 27, 2012, 2:21 a.m. CST
Everything I've seen of CLOUD ATLAS looks like THE FOUNTAIN
by zillabeast
...and I wasn't particularly impressed with The Fountain. Finding beauty in life doesn't have to be so sorrowful. I found it quite condacending.
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really? the movie with the lamest, corniest premise of the year is also the best? typical
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Sept. 27, 2012, 2:49 a.m. CST
"This is the best work these directors have ever done. It's not even a question."
by Windowlicker74
no of course its not a question. The sentence 'This is the best work these directors have ever done' is not a question. every 10 year old knows this. Nordling, could you stop with the bombastic horseshit and just tell us what the hell Holy Motors' is about (oh yeah, the power of cinema..sigh)
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Sept. 27, 2012, 2:52 a.m. CST
Holy Motors gets U.S. release date of 10/17!!! ...aaaand only in NYC and LA :(
by Sam Lloyd
Sometimes it's tough to be a cinephile in Portland, Oregon.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 2:55 a.m. CST
@nintendarth, yes, it's very racist for Halle Berry to play a white woman in Cloud Atlas
by Hardboiled Wonderland
Dickhead.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 2:56 a.m. CST
windowlicker74, living up to your name buddy. Maybe if you stopped licking windows and read David Mitchell's original novel...
by Hardboiled Wonderland
you might learn something.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 3:08 a.m. CST
I'm pleased to see other tallbackers here echo my thoughts here too, so my post should be fairly redundant.
by Sean
Now I, as many others here do, feel great woe at vapid pieces of shit like Battleship making money and more and more of their ilk following along. This idiocracy in pop culture is not US specific, it is everywhere. But Nordling's post reeked of so much pretentious elitism and turned me off. And to dismiss the superhero genre as an example of "slumming it"? Get fucked. There are intelligent and unintelligent examples of all genres, including the blockbusters. There's a middle ground in between demanding something engaging, profound and challenging in art...and having fun. They aren't mutually exclusive. And you never talk down to or underestimate your audience, whoever they might be. Putting your nose up at these uneducated lazy filmgoers, so to speak...will not convert them to your side to ask for better art. No, you'll be asked for a refund and given a punch in the fucking face. It makes you look like part of the cheese and wine hipster crowd that hardly anyone relates to. Art is art in all its myriads. And subjectively assessed. Something, somewhere...regardless of the medium or subject matter to take beauty, expression and pleasure it. I'm quite firmly in the camp of filmmakers who create something for me first and foremost. If an audience thinks it is cool, great...because you cannot predict what the majority wants and when you do, it is an insincere failure. Having said that...it doesn't mean you can put them down either. Otherwise, get used to an isolated career. I need to stop before a Tetsuo-like explosion emenates from me. We're geeks...be down to earth and straight forward, fuck off with your thrones and pedestals.
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From the directors of The Matrix Reloaded, The Matrix Revolutions and Speed Racer.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 3:14 a.m. CST
Pretty sure the Avengers was the most important movie of the year.
by Kyle
Dorks. Django Unchained will prob be the most important film when I see that though.
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Nordling talks about these important films that make him feel alive. The Raid made me feel real fucking alive...maybe the most in a film in quite awhile and so much so that I wuit my job to finally stop sitting on my backside, proscrastinating and wishing I was directing films and drawing and all that shit I put off to pay the bills...and take action. Would you call The Raid an 'important' film in a conventional sense? Fuck no.
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It is also possible people may reject the false world view of Cloud Atlas (if it follows the book at all). It may tell an interesting story, but it isn't just fictional, it is false. I imagine it will look great, the trailer does, but I can't buy into the false message.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 4:07 a.m. CST
The Hunger Games is the most important movie of the year
by Mister McClane
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Sept. 27, 2012, 4:12 a.m. CST
Cloud Atlas has to be one of the most boring, unoriginal books ever, its scope is vastly complicated and the writing exists purely for writers, not readers...
by AllThosePowers
...any filmakers who considers tackling such material is delluded, for they believe cinema exists to display and present concepts that are essentially high-brow or high-art, when really aside from television, cinema is the lowest form of art, everybody knows this, so why bother trying to elevate this artform beyond its already deserved recognition; low. Also, the Wachowskis are particularly good at plagarism, Matrix was not as orginal as The Terminator and their Matrix concept was stolen right out of a Twilight Zone episode as well as William Gibson's Neuromancer. Furthermore, The Matrix was a shit film, the Terminator was and still is light years ahead in terms of story/plot and characterisation. Hollywood fails to realise their studio system is a product of a colossal mess, consisting mainly inbred, regurgitatied, remade remakes, meaning the screenwriters, producers, directors are for the most part talentless and lack education, intelligence and cultural awareness, all of which feeds their films with the same. Cloud Atlas was not even a great book, but the author's - David Mitchel - very weak attempt at copying Italo Calvino's far more superior 'If on a Winters Night a Traveller...' novel written in the 1960s. Anyone who has read 'Cloud Atlas' and 'If on a Winters...' will know the former is a crap book, and I'm talking about readers not critics, who are all writers. So how can a crap book become a good film, not possible. Filmakers like the wachowskis are pure hollywood, they should stick to what they're good at
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...must be Nordling at the keyboard. Honestly, and, like you, dear Nordling, I am just saying my opinion, but if you want to share a film, the last thing you should do to get me in the theater is say, "You must see this. It changed my life. It's the most important film of the year. They're two of the most challenging, rewarding, flat-out amazing movies ever made." Sweet mother, it reminds me of the time you wrote that Harry saved your life. (I kept having images in my mind of him opening the garage door while the car was running and you were dozing off in the driver's seat, yearning for that last, long nap.) I appreciate you are very enthusiastic about these films, but, like someone mentioned above, there should be some storytelling at play. Unless HOLY MOTORS is akin to Warhol's Empire State Building movie, there should be some kind of story to share. Is it about an actor who plays lots of different roles? That's the impression I got from reading what you said, but I'm not sure. And to be honest, your coy description with overloaded praise just turns me off. And, I'm sure you're thinking, "Well, your loss, Dollar Bird." And maybe it is. Maybe I'll miss out on seeing something really special that will really challenge me, or immerse me, or engross me, or blow my little mind right out my ears like a fountain of corroded gray matter. But, you know what? I have to WANT to see it to go see it. And telling me my mind will be blown makes me suspicious, fires up my cynical side, and makes me look for a book to read instead. It's no wonder I read more than see movies these days.
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Sorry have to post here. . . that's bullshit. If Cloud Atlas is about connections, the On a Winter's Night is like. . . the opposite. I't slike watching a movie for 15 minutes, then immediately watching 15 minutes from a completely unconnected movie for 15 minutes, then again, and again. I appreciate what Calvino was attempting, but that does not make it readable.
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From what you write: "The first few hours after I saw it, I still wasn't sure exactly what it was that I saw. I kept trying to crack the code, so to speak, trying to figure the movie out, trying to understand the angles " I'm getting the impression that the director failed. Because it seems he was not able to communicate clearly just what he was doing and what it was all about. If you must (as you put it) 'crack a code' to 'get it', there's something wrong there. Ask any Communications prof.
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I see your point, but I would ask a Literature prof, not a Communications prof. You might get a different answer. Taking on the concept of storytelling/filmmaking the way Shane Carruth handled time travel in Primer (the one movie outside of the Star Wars trilogy I have probably seen more than any other movie - BTW) may what Nordling is getting at with his comments. Sure, it's a puzzle, but as long as its fascinating . . .
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Sept. 27, 2012, 4:35 a.m. CST
I thought John Carter was the most important film of the year? At least according to all the writers on this site...
by happybunni
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Sept. 27, 2012, 4:36 a.m. CST
I was amazed when I fisrt saw the first trailer of "Cloud Atlas", and most of all for his music. And after reading this I'm diying to see the flick...
by kim
And the whole Matrix series are superb, like speed racer. And the perfum.
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I've seen this year. At the Cannes Film Festival, the movie was shown a couple of days before COSMOPOLIS. During the Cronenberg movie, the main character wonders where his white limo is going at night and loads of people at the morning screening shouted: "it's parked in HOLY MOTORS!"
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Lame statement Nordling.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 5:22 a.m. CST
@kwisatzhaderach, Cloud Atlas is mostly directed by Tom Tykwer
by Hardboiled Wonderland
Run Lola Run and Heaven are fantastic films.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 5:23 a.m. CST
@stvnhthr, "false message"? So basically, you don't like having your beliefs challenged?
by Hardboiled Wonderland
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Sept. 27, 2012, 5:26 a.m. CST
@allthose powers, Mitchell's Cloud Atlas is a "crap book"?
by Hardboiled Wonderland
Yeah, must be crap to be shortlisted for the Booker Prize, Nebula Award, & Arthur C. Clarke Award. I'd take that above your "personal opinion" any day.
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...with what is actual COOL cinema, and what's just fanboy bullshit. Not saying that Cloud Atlas isn't damn cool, and im glad it's a good film but Park Chan-wook's new film Stoker has a trailer out, any self respecting film fan or film geek would be on that shit...but no! you'd rather show us endless minor tidbits over films we won't be watching until very late next year. Come on this is huge stuff, get some interest in you...it's bad enough Harry likes Amazing Spider-man and Men in Black 3 more than Inception.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 6:16 a.m. CST
This article really makes the writer seem like a tremendous dickhead.
by Fries Against
I would like to say more. But I'm lazy.
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You might have realised that while the american population is about 300 milliosn, the rest of the world population is 6 billions. Each billion is a thousand millions. So, that a movie, evne a shitty one, gets more box office from foreign market should be a matter of course. What is byzarre is when the american market alone can make bigger numbers, that's the strange not the other way around. This means that even if few people watched "Battleship", the combined foreign box office numbers surpassing the american domestic is to be expected, it's obvious.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 6:31 a.m. CST
American moviegoers are lazy. Unfortunatly they aren't the only ones.
by albert comin
It's a generalized problem which is not getting better with time. On the other hand, television audiences are getting better, as the sucesses of such shows like Boardwalk Empire, Breaking Bad or Game Of Thrones testify, to name a few.
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Licking windows? Ha that's some funny shit. I guess you never heard of a certain director called chris cunningham. The rest of us know what windowlicker really is:) anyway dont get all pissed because not everyone likes your precious little book. And remember: everything is connected...
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I am a medical specialist, which was academically (intellectually?) quite competetive to get to; I enjoy appreciating high art, but so fucking what if I also enjoy accessible low brow populist crap? You're supposed to be geeks, not snobs. I understand that in the roman republic, a model for your great nation, they watched slaves kill each other for entertainment. So don't fucking insult the Western world for not insisting on exclusively finding some transcendental experience in a film. We are happy to just relax and enjoy ourselves for a couple of hours. Promote what you enjoy by all means, but don't fucking cry about it if most people won't.
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I live in Norway, American blockbusters rule the box office here, too. You don't know what you're talking about. *American moviegoers are lazy. Anything remotely challenging, whether to their self-bloated sense of morality or their anti-intellectualism, is ostracized and thrown to the wayside. I'm not even coming from a place of elitism here either.* Yes, you are. Get over yourself.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 7:06 a.m. CST
Cloud Atlas certaining looks interesting, but I don't like The Fountain comparisons. Hopefully that's way off base.
by Wcwlkr
I mean it definitely looks like an interesting and intriguing movie. But if it's anything like The Fountain oh man count me out that movie was horrendous. But I don't know I may go check it out fingers crossed expectations low.
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You are not making a very good argument, i'm affraid. I have also met very intelligent lawers, people working in finances, and other highly educated professions and i have found so many of them to be utterly clueless about movies or art even though they live under the illusion they are conneuseurs. I have see lots of intelligent discussions of art and movies from groccers and low end paying jobs. You live under the mistaken notion that because you are a medic that entitles you to high intellectualism, but that's vanity. That you went to a great lenght to defend low brow dumbed down entertainment makes it all the more suspect. The point is, blow shit up kind of entertaiment is lower type of entertaiment, no matter how much one enjoys it, me, you or anybody else. And i sing the joys of heaven that there are filmmakers with ambition who aren't affraid to be labeled pretentious and try to elevante cinema to high art and make movies which demand much from the audiences. This are the people who actually help cinema stay relevant, this are the ones who rattle cages and help shake out the complacency that so often comercial cinema falls into. I'm glad this people exist, and i'm glad this movies exist. I rather have an interesting ambitious failure then another sucessful but boring banal explosathron.
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Cinema is the lowest of art forms? What bullshit is that? Speak for yourself, buddy. Art forms are as good or bad as the artists or public allow it to be. There is higher or lower arts, there is only art.
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"There is higher or lower arts, there is only art" should had read "There is no higher or lower arts, there is only art." Sorry about that.
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You must have not seen the same "The Fountain" movie i saw.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 8:17 a.m. CST
The best movie to come out so far this year is "Tim and Eric's Billion Dollar Movie".
by Pat
Up there with "Moonrise Kingdom". Last year it was "Tree of Life". "Cloud Atlas" looks interesting and I will check that out along with "The Master", and "Django Unchained". Hoping to see "Master" tomorrow.
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Besides having issues with the direction the Matrix trilogy went, and not caring for V for Vendetta, I'm just completely put off by these guys. I don't even care about his sexual confusion, but "Lana" is just creepy as hell. Watch an interview with him/her sporting the pink dreadlocks. Its just disturbing to me. So, needless to say, I'm having mixed feelings about Cloud Atlas.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 8:44 a.m. CST
The masses have always been stupid, it doesn't matter what country you live in.
by Stegman84
The masses like safe, generic, and shiny. They like fast cutting and bloodless action with no real world type consequences. They like cardboard cutout characters, star power, and toilet humour. They like the same exact shit they have seen a thousand times before, only slightly modified to give the illusion of being new. They like easy answers, clear cut good guys and bad guys, and a definitive, upbeat ending. They like remakes and franchises of diminishing qualities. They like 'raunchy' r-rated comedies almost entirely free from nudity, and cookie-cutter life affirming 'issue' films. They like hating on and mocking the latest tween sensation, and then flocking to see the movies relating to it in droves anyway. They like pretty people wo can't act, they like pg-13, they like shaky cam, they like nostalgia, reality tv, and 3D. They like hype and they like trailers that give away too much. and they reward all of this shit with money down and asses on seats. And what people say afterwards or online doesn't mean a damn thing, because hollywood takes all of its messages through the box office. What they don't like is to be challenged. And they rarely reward anything that takes chances, pushes buttons, or dares to be different, unless there is enough hype or eye candy or star power to distract them and drag them along for the ride. And then after accidentally seeing a good film, they pat themselves on the back for how smart they are, and wonder why more good films aren't made, even as they continue to live in their bubbles are ignore most good films that do, against the odds, manage to get made. Whether you want to look at cinema, tv, current literature or music, the masses are a walking example of lowest common denominator in action, and they are, and always will be, the target market that most studios and so on strive to capture and embrace. After all, it doesn't matter whether a film is good to the accountant's view of the world, it only matters whether it makes money or not. And if you aim for something that is able to moderately please even the dumbest guy in the room, then there is a lot more chance that you have a hit. Sad, but true. And I'm not saying that I'm better than the great unwashed, just because I actully do like cinema and tv that dares to challenge, and because I often despair at the levels of crap that makes so much money year after year, but the truth is bread and circuses is still very much in effect. And nothing any of us say or do will change that. All we can really do is to try and support the films and shows and whatever that we feel are truly worthwhile, and spread the word to others in the hopes that some of them may do likewise. Other than that, take the best of what comes down the pike, and let the rest fester, because none of us are in a position to change anything. It is what it is. No point driving yourself crazy over it.
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Nevermind if you don't quite "get it", you'll still have one hell of a cinematic experience. And I dare you not to shed a tear at some point (the car scene with the teenage daughter ? the musical scene with Kylie Minogue ?). It takes a true artist and a talented craftsman to make a film like HM. It also takes brass balls from both the producer and the distributor, who deserve as much credit as the director for making it happen.
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both of them
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I get that his anti-american rant may have ruffled a few patriotic feathers, but give the guy credit for everything else he said in his post : I think he was mainly trying to express (quite clumsily, but you have to be when you're in love) how madly he fell in love with these two films, and how sad it makes him that they will probably be box-office failures. But don't overestimate international audience, Nordling : HM bombed in France - big time. And we frogs are supposed (or are we?) to be a fairly picky audience. There goes your theory about 'dumb America vs the world'.
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I'm looking forward to Cloud Atlas getting a wider release October 24th but is there any hope of seeing this other film, Holy Motors outside of NYC or LA?
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How can i disagree with you? I can't. Your words could had been mine. Only you wrote it much better then i could. However, i can't feel as fatalistic as you do in the end of your great post. I still feel the need to shout to the winds by disagreemnt of the state of affairs and to call out on both the bad movies and the people who made them and support them, and all the perpectuators of all this. It might sound futille, but it's cathartic. and now that we have all this online tools to us, who know if we can actually influence somebody to make better? Some new filmmaker to be who, reading out pented up frustrations, inspire him to do better, and become the next Kubrick. Who knows?
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It's a real problem here on AICN. People come on and rant about "art house movies" and cry like babies. These types are very obvious, jealous they never made it to film school and can't make movies. Sooo they try and shit on the movie crowd and claim good movies are just "art house trash" or whatever. Sorry but we can see right through you. The concept that American movie goers are lazy or stupid is frankly correct. Just look at the most recent box office... Out of all the good options out there people in mass went to see The House at the End of the Street. What... The... Fuck is that? Stop trying to claim that smart people who like good movies are assholes... No they are just better than you. Expand your mind and let actual good flicks into your library and then maybe you won't get so mad.
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I watched a recent interview with Lana and the pink dreadlocks and I instantly thought "uh oh, I was kind of looking forward to Cloud Atlas simply from the trailer, now I'm scared" Beware of my opinion though as I'm one of the lazy americans who only has a limited budget and time to go to the movies. I'm Nordling's worst nightmare as I need some assurance that I won't be creeped out, depressed, or that my head won't explode from thinking too hard when going to the movies. Reading his article actually drove me from both of these movies, but that probably will generate a sigh of relief from Nordling because I'm not in his camp. I like fun, sentiment and cleverness, so I'm in the camp with movies like The Avengers and Lincoln.
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It's like when people say "I don't mean to sound racist but..." In other words Nordling, you ARE coming from a place of elitism. You were elitist the moment you made that general (and incorrect) blanket statement about American audiences.
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He won't address any of the criticisms against him. He'll just chalk it up to talkbackers being a bunch of whiny jackasses I bet. Similar to how he dealt with the big spoiler situation. Ah well. We're talkbackers. And he's Nordling. We can't help it.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 9:26 a.m. CST
Cloud Atlas: 'This is the best work these directors have ever done.'
by Brian Hopper
Cloud Atlas looks like a hot mess to me, so I'm doubting it's any good at all. Regardless, there is NO WAY it's better than The Matrix. Fact!
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I'd say Nordling is coming from a place of frustration, lot elitism. and given the type of reviews that Nord has done in the past, the last thing i would call him is an elistist. I would rate him quite the inverse. Not to play the devil's advocate, but i suspect that Nordling reached a certain point that happens to so many of us movie geeks in which the movies which we usually call the "fun popcorn" ones no longer satisfies as they used to. He's starting to starve for more. And that's how things should be. It's what a movie geek should be, i think. I also think we, if we call ourselves geeks, we should be champions of movies who try to dare more, and not mere perpectuators of the status quo. Either we like it or not, we are an elite, we became one when we became knowledgable of movies that far surpass what the so-called average audiences know. Compared to them, we are encyclopedic.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 9:31 a.m. CST
"This will just make Nordling hate talkbackers more" And very well he should. We are a bunch of evil motherfuckers!
by albert comin
And anyone of who is not, he/she is not doing his job properly.
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Obviously the Twilight/Hunger Games teenage and early twenties set are going to that movie in droves don't blame me that they go from sitting in front of Sponge Bob and ABC family to run out to the movies hormones a raging.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 9:43 a.m. CST
I've sat through some terrible films before, but "Tim and Eric's Billion Dollar Movie" represents a even lower low
by kidicarus
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Sept. 27, 2012, 9:49 a.m. CST
wereplatypus - have you even read Calvino's '...Winters Night?' the book is engaging on levels that Mitchel can only dream about
by AllThosePowers
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Sept. 27, 2012, 9:51 a.m. CST
scirocco - I enjoy your astute observations- and a question for your
by Michael Lunney
I also think we, if we call ourselves geeks, we should be champions of movies who try to dare more, and not mere perpectuators of the status quo. Either we like it or not, we are an elite, we became one when we became knowledgable of movies that far surpass what the so-called average audiences know. Compared to them, we are encyclopedic. Well said, sir. What is the best good film you saw this year, and what was the best, worst film this year? I have seen thousands of films, reviewed them for years, and am a fan of the best, and the worst, of films. I know that can be a tough question to answer.
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Oh, I enjoyed these movies so much! Cloud Atlas and Holy Motors! Love em! You lazy, bloated sense of morality having anti-intellectual Americans! You ostracize anything remotely challenging and throw it to the wayside! Wow!
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...you have missunderstood what I am trying to say. Hollywood cinema, not European, Asian and Australian filmakers, is a lower form of art because hollywood produces entirely and wholly derivative products; if they're not remakes, they're from books, if they're not from books they're from newspaper articles, if not articles, then a song, blah blah, blah. The list is endless in hollywoods ineptitude to produce original quality films from original quality scripts written by original quality people! Tha's why hollywood is and will always be a lower form of art until they get their shit together
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Sept. 27, 2012, 10:01 a.m. CST
I imagine Nordling writing this article while wearing a top hat and monocle.
by tomandshell
And he speaks with the voice of a man who asks, "Pardon me, would you have any Grey Poupon?"
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You make a very good point allthosepowers. Hollywood has not only become a lower art form, they have become the "Cereal Maker" of Entertainment. "Ohh people like chocolate so let's make a chocolate version of Lucky Charms". Yuck! I must admit when I saw they were making "Battleship The Movie", I was equally as turned off as I was reading Nordling's article. My first thought was.. "What's Next, Connect Four The Movie?"
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Sept. 27, 2012, 10:09 a.m. CST
tomandshell - Are you saying Nordling is the Monopoly Guy of AICN?
by DeltonParker
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What is Holy Motors about? It looks like you were going to explain and then you go off on some gibber jabber tangent...
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Thanks for your kind words, good sir. Best movie i saw this year? Might be either "The Dark Knight Rises" or "The Hunter". I'd probably rate "The Hunter" higher in that it fully satisfied me and far surpassed my already high espectations. Worst movie has to be "Prometheus". I can't even think of that movie without bile raises up to my mouth. I can't count the ways i hated the thing. I'm even more furious because it's a Ridley Scott movie i'm hating. It was a tough question to answer on who i liked best, not on what i hated the most.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 10:46 a.m. CST
I'm not even coming from a place of elitism here either.
by DoctorWho?
Sure you are. Those peons who don't immerse themselves in 200 movies a year, peruze foreign and art house flicks and know what 'mumblecore' is are lazy and stupid. And yet, lame horror flicks and movies like The Expendables get everyone jacking off all over each other here.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 10:49 a.m. CST
allthosepowers- the defense of your argument is silly and hyperbolic- BZORP! nothing to see here, move along...
by Michael Lunney
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I'm tryinto to post a reply to your post, and i just can't, for some weird reason. I'm sorry about that, but i really don't understand what's going on.
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The whole 'much nerd rage about nothing' is starting to wear really thin. don't get me wrong there are some fascinating and often brilliant insights. Unfortunately there are also the nerd wars where two or more talkbackers destroy a thread normally at the 40 post mark. It can put a real downer on this site sometimes. As to Cloud Atlas I am really excited about this film and Nordling has got me even more so. it is post like his that make come back to this site daily
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Sept. 27, 2012, 10:56 a.m. CST
scirocco - thanks- interesting choices- - Was there a film you saw this year that you know was bad, but still felt entertained by it-a film that was so bad it was good for being so bad?
by Michael Lunney
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First, wtf is Holy Motors about? I'm not going to see it based off this review, that's certain. Not outlining the plot is one thing. WHAT IS IT ABOUT? And I'm skeptical of Cloud Atlas because it looks like it belongs on the shelf in between What Dreams May Come and Pay it Forward.
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We agree one something, then. Holywood does produce good stuff, but it fells it's far less often. And this notion that if filmmakers only made good smart movies, the audiences would steer away is just idiotic. Audiences go to the movies ot watch movies, not to specifically watch bad movies.
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The "so bad it's good" is a foreign concept to me. I literally don't understand it. Movies are either good or bad. If they are good they entertain, if they are bad they don't. I understand the concept of mocking a bad movie, i do that all the time, but enjoy it because it's bad? Makes no sense to me.
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The point is that it's not elitist at all what Nordling said. To accuse Nordling, of all people here, as being elitist is just too funny for words. He's the furtherst you could find here at AICN, from what i have seen. The man is hoi polloi through and through. Which only makes his argument all the stronger. What he said is not elitist, what he said is the truth. He is right. He is very right. And more like this should be said. It should be the norm, not the exception.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 11:09 a.m. CST
scirocco - right- 95% of ALL art is crap- but there are still a handful of great, artistic, visionary films made every year- yes, the quality of American films continues to diminish as more films are being made yearly than ever before
by Michael Lunney
yes, the quality of American films continues to diminish as more films are being made yearly than ever before
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Sept. 27, 2012, 11:11 a.m. CST
Well, we're glad you are so much smarter and more intlleckshual than those moran Amurikans.
by MaxHeadroom
Meanwhile, you write for a website that rarely has the time to edit its posts and spell them properly.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 11:11 a.m. CST
so american audiences ignore the so-called best films of the year THIS year?
by Robert Evans
this is nothing new. Hell I'm even told endlessly that foreign films, also underseen by American audiences, are vastly superior to american cinema. Once again--this is nothing new. Look at the last 30 years of the box office yearly top ten. Are any of them considered the best films of the year? Shit Hollywood cant even get it right with the Oscars. not only do they usually NOT pick the best film of the year, they dont even pick one that is a mainstream hit. so we can bitch all we want that the greatest film is ignored by the mindless masses. but frankly im tired of that game. see a film..or dont.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 11:27 a.m. CST
Meanwhile, nobody is going to see "Judge Dredd" which is one of the coolest comic book movies ever...
by Mr. Waturi
Do yourselves a favor and see it before it leaves theaters. It is why websites like this were started. An imaginative, beautifully shot, well-written comic book movie done on a shoestring budget.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 11:29 a.m. CST
Since when is nordling an intellectual powerhouse? He is part of the "lazy american" audience, I never take his reviews seriously. He sounds like a dope spouting g
by SirGaryColeman
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Sept. 27, 2012, 11:31 a.m. CST
Nordling isn't qualified to be an elitist, that's why people are reacting
by SirGaryColeman
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Sept. 27, 2012, 12:02 p.m. CST
Me no read post. Me watch Avengers for 7th time instead.
by adeceasedfan
Me think when Hulk bash Loki to be most important moment this year. Make me happy.
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American moviegoers are lazy. Anything remotely challenging, whether to their self-bloated sense of morality or their anti-intellectualism, is ostracized and thrown to the wayside. I'm not even coming from a place of elitism here either.
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But each scene is edited in a way that comments on the scene before it,...
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I guess "most important film of the year" is open to interpretation. Without hitting up google, what other films came out the same year as Star Wars? Huh...yeah, not so much.
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"When someone tells me I have to engage a film to enjoy it, I say - Ummmmm, no. That's the movie's job, to bring me in. I'm the VIEWER - not the creator. Trying to massage my intellectualism by telling me I'm somehow a participant in the so-called process is crap. Does it entertain?" You're presuming everyone is entertained by the same thing(s). I'm entertained greatly by Ingmar Bergman films. Would I recommend them to lay people? Nope. They're too busy guzzling beer and watching football on sundays. Everything's relative so quit insulting people. You just joined the idiot club.
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If you want nerd rage, you're in the right place. A Nordling article. Nordling is a human pressure cooker steaming away on the most putrid, festering, seething pot of nerd rage that you are likely to find on the internet. Mark my words, one of these days, Nordling is gonna blow, and he's gonna take this site and all you motherfuckers with him.
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Write to me somehow. You and I need to collaborate. I couldn't believe I was finally reading a well-worded, punctuated response on the site that read like butter.
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Why don't you go beat up a homosexual, you piece of shit. Do you avoid Polanski movies as well? Cuz, you know, the guy's a pedophile and all. Get your head out of your ass, separate the artist from the art, and experience things. If you knew about every filmmakers' peccadillos (and I'm putting that politely), you'd never step into a movie theatre again or watch Netflix. Honestly, I'm way more skeeved out by your disgustingly phobic non-question than I ever would be talking to pink-haired Lana. And she's contributed a few great things to cinema, what the fuck have you ever done?
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Sept. 27, 2012, 12:52 p.m. CST
Wait, Lana Wachowksi? Did Andy direct this with his wife? Where's his brother?
by SergeantStedenko
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Incredibly good post. Well said. It has been this way, it always WILL be this way, because we live in a money-obsessed world. Deal with it. But try and support the little cult films, because they will seep into the culture and that is a great ideal. There are pockets of people who influence the world in a subterranean fashion and if they strive, they will ooze to the surface...
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Goddamn talkbacks are not working properly, my posts getting cut off... Anyway: CE3K Annie Hall Sorcerer Just the top of my mind for great films of 1977 without googling.
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That's a terribly vague sentence about the filmmaking process. What does it even mean? I've worked for many of the top editors in cutting rooms, and they'd kick me out of their room if I uttered such a non-starter. What do you think editing is? Splicing shots together? Of course one scene has to provide meaning to what came before it. It's lazy, space-filling non-writing, and I won't stands for it no more (said Popeye).
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Sept. 27, 2012, 1:15 p.m. CST
Cloud Atlas, the novel, is the opposite of high art...
by foree forehead
...it's a pastiche, a riff on previously established literary styles (e.g. Melville, pulpy detective fiction, Philip K. Dick, and perhaps most explicitly, Russell Hoban's awesome "Riddley Walker"). It's not some super-difficult Ulysses or even Thomas Pynchon-level shit. The best part of reading Cloud Atlas was that it made me feel as if I DIDN'T HAVE TO READ all those other important works upon which it was based. Fast food art, yo (Somni-451 shout-out). And it's a highly enjoyable read at that, my favorite book. FYI, Mitchell's earlier book Ghostwritten touches on quite similar interlinked narrative themes.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 1:25 p.m. CST
I don't like shit on people who prefer smaller, thoughtful films. They are so by so few people that it doesn't really matter.
by zillabeast
What does bug me is that this very vocal minority doesn't ever SHUT UP about how superior their tastes are. I usually shrug it off, and let them live in their own little world. I enjoy occasional small film and indie film as well, but I'm not so delusional as to pretend that they are a greater than an epic such as THE AVENGERS or TDKR.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST
rumourd- something for your entertainment - Samuel L. Jackson has a new video message for you, motherfuckers!!!!!
by Michael Lunney
Great new Samuel L Jackson video riffing on the children’s book, “GO THE FUCK TO SLEEP, which Jackson also narrated. “Say hell no, motherfuckers! http://www.wtfu2012.com/
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Sept. 27, 2012, 2 p.m. CST
rumourd- which films have you worked on with the top editors you mention working with?
by Michael Lunney
You seem like a savvy, interesting person to chat with...
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You know what pisses me off? Mainstream blockbuster feeders who bitch and moan because one occasional movie dares to have high artistic ambitions, and piss on it as if it's the harbringer of the plague, while 98% of every movie made in the US are made for them. This pissants who complain that once in a while a more ambitious movie shows up that is not their usual bottom fooder dietry and get mad that someone would sings hossanas to it. It pisses me off that people simply satisfied with mainstream blockbusters, who compose the vast majority of movies made in US, get pissed and aggressive towards more ambitious movies. So i tell you, everybody who loves more challenging movies have every fucking right to put down the simplistic tripe whenever a more ambiitous movie shows up, because it's earned payback time. The mainstream bottom fodders can't accept the idea that movies can be more then just their limited idea of what a movie should be, their very limited idea of what entertaiment should be. My experience teached me that the most snobbish moviegoers of them all are the mainstream bottom fodders, the ones who have the daring to call others for having standards. It's the mainstream bottom fodders who have an incredible self-entitlement they do not deserve nor makes any sense they should had one to begin with.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 2:21 p.m. CST
Wachoski's have only made 2 good movies: Bound and The Matrix - the Matrix sequels were dire, Speed Racer was uber dire...
by cameron
V for Vendetta was okay but directed by James McTiegue. It's been a long time since 1998 and the magic of the 1st Matrix movie. I hope they return to form with this movie but the source material is pretty dense and interwoven - good for reading but for filming? - i have my doubts. Holy Motors is getting very good reviews here in UK - and i'm looking forward to that. Forget Cloud Atlas for brain satisfying movie going & go see Looper instead.
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turns out to be more like the failure of Benjamin Button and less like the success of Forest Gump.
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Thanks, man (hopefully you weren't being sardonic). I'd tell you a few titles I've worked on (everyone knows them), but doing so over such a public forum isn't wise for one's anonymity. But yes, I've been spinning in the spokes of Hollywood for some time and have encountered quite a number of talented, psychotic folks. The maxim seems to be supportable too: The more talented ones seem to be the cooler peeps to be around. The few occasions I've run into superstars, who have shown their base taste in project selection, tend to be the insufferable assholes of the lot. And studio execs deserve all the shit we movie geeks give them; they are business-minded jerks. That's all they care about, is preserving their own way of life. You know how greedy CEOs are, because their lifeblood is money? Executives -- especially the lowlife junior ones -- are ALL about their cars, pussy, and being good providers to the corporation's bottom line. They are creative nitwits. And lest you think I'm a bottom-feeder, I've been in studio rooms with the actual BIG BOYS who either run the whole shebang (meaning, the CEOs or the Heads of Production) and these guys only know about packaging, they are not brave in the slightest. Anyway, venting over -- Sigourney Weaver just sealed my air duct.
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If you can think of a way to communicate, lemme know, I'd be up for it. Just don't ask me to skype. ;)
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I can see that coming from a movie insider why you would see the masses the way @stegman84 stated, which was a very humorous post by the way and I agree, but I am curious if the executives or the masses are more to blame? I being your average joe geek, have limited funds with which to see movies and I try to reach out to new genres and cult movies as I enjoy intelligent cinema, but it is so hard to cut through the muck. If the executives in Hollywood are churning out the crap and the masses are eating it up, what is a fan of movies to do? Who are they to trust when they are looking for a film that is a diamond in the rough?
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Sept. 27, 2012, 3:33 p.m. CST
hardboiled wonderland, this 1/2 person who saw Cloud Atlas...
by chaburchak
...was it a child or an adult's head and upper torso?
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Sept. 27, 2012, 3:43 p.m. CST
363 posts about fluff like cloud atlas and 3 about holy motors
by max404
.....which is a startling work of art
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Well, that's just Nordling to a tee, and anybody with any sense knows it comes with the territory with this Devin Faraci acolyte. As for Cloud Atlas, it looks like another pretentious mess from the Wachowskis, striving so hard to be about 'big themes' - the trailer fairly toots its horn about it ('Love!'; 'Death!'; 'Hope!'; 'Fate!'; 'Destiny!';'3rd Rate Philosophy!'; 'Masturbation!')- yet is probably a lot of mumbo jumbo masked by cool visuals with little to say about these subjects. Bit like the Matrix sequels really. If there's any hope for this film it will be down to Tom Twyker; Perfume was an excellent film and hopefully he will keep the Wachowskis worst excesses in check. Really, though, just because something STRIVES for importance doesn't mean it actually IS important. The term 'masterpiece' is tossed around so liberally and stupidly these days that its currency has become utterly devalued. And I certainly wouldn't trust a boob like Nordling to recognize the genuine article.
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AICN has NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER sneering at the 'great unwashed masses', or even fanboy groups specifically (Nordling's superhero reference). This site has been instrumental, in recent years, in promoting UTTER SHIT that panders to these groups , and pre-emptively declaring all that tosh a work of genius before it even comes out (see previous comments about the misapplication of the word 'masterpiece')- ie. Scott Pilgrim, JJ Trek, John Carter, and everything else bought and paid for in the purpose of hype. To have one of the contributors here suddenly get on his high horse and snort at the plebs below to feed his own bloated ego is phony, hypocritical, laughable, and deserving of all the derision it has so far received in this Talkback.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 4:14 p.m. CST
Excellent points above by turd and a few others. I would like to further add
by D o o d
that the word Masterpiece is earned. You can't just label something a masterpiece! It takes time and a love for the material!
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Many thanks for the kind words. I love a good collaboration; too bad there's no good way to communicate beyond this forum without pulling back the curtain for every Tom, Dick, and Harry (and bot) to see and abuse. Ah, well. Like others have said, "you sound like an interesting person to chat with." I hope to see you around these parts more often.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 4:25 p.m. CST
allthosepowers - the capitalized words emphasis why you were being hyperbolic- I hope you understand now.
by Michael Lunney
Hollywood cinema, not European, Asian and Australian filmakers, is a lower form of art because hollywood produces ENTIRELY and WHOLLY derivative products
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Sept. 27, 2012, 4:25 p.m. CST
allthosepowers - the capitalized words emphasis why you were being hyperbolic- I hope you understand now.
by Michael Lunney
Hollywood cinema, not European, Asian and Australian filmakers, is a lower form of art because hollywood produces ENTIRELY and WHOLLY derivative products
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...but it cannot be better than the first 'Matrix.' It simply cannot.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 4:36 p.m. CST
rumourd- I was being sincere - you seem to know what you are talking about and I respect your insider status and privacy -communicating on AICN is cool with me
by Michael Lunney
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Sept. 27, 2012, 5:01 p.m. CST
allthosepowers - yes- I agree- you should have known better
by Michael Lunney
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Wish there was a way around it but alas... Maybe down the slow road here we'll figure something out. As it is, I just have too many friends around the industry, some of whom are frequent targets here on the boards... which is why my ruffles get feathered easily by those who talk out of their uninformed asses regularly and end their posts with "FACT!!!" -- they're usually the most incorrect. I'll try and get my CIA contacts to find your email. (j/k)
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Sept. 27, 2012, 5:11 p.m. CST
allthosepowers -but you are entitled to your opinion- no matter how simplistic it might be, mate....not to mention contradictory...
by Michael Lunney
You also said, hyperbolically, and with a weird contradiction: Tha's why hollywood IS and will ALWAYS be a lower form of art UNTIL they get their shit together . So what is it, always will be, or might some day be transformative. Your argument is an opinion that is as unconvincing as your understanding of what art is and isn't... Cheers... allthosepowers -but you are entitled to your opinion- no matter how simplistic it might be, mate....not to mention contradictory...
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Sept. 27, 2012, 5:21 p.m. CST
rumourd - thanks- forgive my ignorance but what does (j/k) mean?
by Michael Lunney
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I have no answer for you, sir. The truth is, moviemaking will always be a gamble, but the new people in power -- "new" meaning, the ones NOT of the ilk of the originals like Laemmle, Zanuck, the Warners, Cohn, etc -- think that you can financially codify future success with market research, polling, etc. You just can't. And by asking the public ahead of time what they think they'd like in such a fashion, is asking for failure; the public is not your creative collaborator. They don't know what they want 'til we give it to them. To business people, this is an absolute insanity; they just can't fathom that filmmaking is a big ol' bet. It's beyond their mindset of how the universe operates. There's this term everyone uses, "Dumbed Down." I think it has become true in cinema; if you give a little kid cotton candy, he's gonna eat it and want more, especially if you don't show him vegetables. The audiences are more like children now and the vegans are staying home to watch intelligent cable shows. So the teeth, if you will, of American Cinema, is rotting away, and if we're not careful, the culture will never make a comeback with regards to this art form. As for you moviegoers looking for more heft in your filmgoing experiences, thank god we have Netflix/Amazon for access to world cinema. Not to be the harbinger of doom here, lemme just paraphrase what a former exec at Miramax said at a recent seminar in regards to getting mid-level films made at a major studio: "It is as bad as it has ever been out there. If your project does not demonstrate the capability of generating at least $500 million, don't bother bringing it to them." This is why it's important when films like Black Swan or True Grit or The Help make over $100million. It shows that movie audiences are starving for emotional experiences once again. Yes, these films won't make stockholders go whoop-de-whoop about their portfolios suddenly escalating in profit, but this incessant march toward higher and higher profit margins -- in regards to the arts -- will surely bankrupt the evolving of the form. People need emotion in their films, plain and simple. "The Artist" would not have been a success if this were not the case. But again, blockbuster mentality rules the day and will never go away now. Only when some smaller film like another Terms of Endearment comes along and makes $400-500million, will Hollywood sit up and go "oh. dayum." Btw -- "Twilight" doesn't count. I'm talking about intelligent, adult cinema.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 5:41 p.m. CST
rumourd thanks - I'm an old fart not hip to all the internet shorthand - I like your style, my friend...
by Michael Lunney
rumourd thanks - I'm an old fart not hip to all the internet shorthand - I like your style, my friend... I used to write film reviews, and I was a newspaper enteratainment/features editor/writer for many years... Good luck to your pursuits in the biz. By the way- you mentioned The Artist. I am a huge fan of silent films, and have seen more of them than many people have seen contemporary fare. But, I must say, while not a bad film, it felt like a silent film made for people who don't watch or haven't seen silent films. Know what I mean?
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Excelent post, very well said.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 5:47 p.m. CST
Nordling criticizes Americans for being "lazy" and "anti-intellectual" but...
by eveelcapitalist
...Can't be bothered to mention what the plots of Holy Motors and Cloud Atlas are about. Way to go, asshole! Only thing "bloated" here is your own ego. And you're a shitty writer. God, you're talentless wannabe making a piss poor attempt at being a professional. Nordling, still the worst writer on AICN.
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Are there any pics of Larry/Lana? He was always kind of an effeminate looking dude, but I wonder what he looks like now after the whole sex change. I mean are we talking Canadian Miss Universe Contestant (he's got the money) or are we talking Sweet Mother Of God Cast That Abomination Out (like every other post-op tranny). Enquiring minds and all that.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 6 p.m. CST
eveelcapitalist - Movies are not about the plot- they are about the subtext. Seems to me he expressed this with his opinion. - Perhaps you missed his point.
by Michael Lunney
He did say: So what is HOLY MOTORS about? It's about the power of cinema to tell stories, and how even the filmmaker can feel trapped in the various worlds that he creates, but that he must continue because he has no choice in the matter. And HOLY MOTORS is a movie about catharsis. Not just our own, but the filmmaker's as well. And it will not be easily explained. People demanding onean explanation will be disappointed, and they should be - this movie is better than that. And about Cloud Atlas: To break the movie down to its essential plot, like HOLY MOTORS, is doing the movie a disadvantage. It is also a movie that should be experienced, but unlike HOLY MOTORS, CLOUD ATLAS takes us on a journey through genres and through storytelling itself. I would have edited his reviews, but hey, AICN doesn't seem to have a want for one. But they do need one. Have you ever written a film review? I got his point, however messily it may have been expressed here and there.
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Wellio well well well... Um, about this movie, I was attempting to stray from upsetting the apple cart -- but I'm completely in agreement. I thought it was highly overrated and the story bored the piss out of me. I also have a pet peeve that isn't really the movie's fault, but I can't stand non-period modern body types, in period movies. Penelope Ann Miller looked grand and appropriate in the film; Berenice, like a walking anachronism. To pinpoint this idea I'm furthering, just check out the last shot of "The Shining" -- look at the faces in that final photograph of the party at the Overlook Hotel. It's Jack's face cropped into an old period photograph. See how doughy everyone looks?
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Sept. 27, 2012, 6:24 p.m. CST
rumourd - The Shining- I had not noticed that, but yeah, verisimilitude in cinematic storytelling does not seem to be an easy component to master.
by Michael Lunney
And The Artist- I eventually watched it on double speed, just to get through it. High Expectations- low appreciation. Oh Well. Mel Brooks' Silent Movie was more fun, but I was also so much younger then and a tad less jaded.
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I saw it in the theatre so there was no escape, no fast-forwarding. I much preferred Hugo that year. Many years ago I got to have a conversation with Robert Richardson, I was admiring his work on "The Good Shepherd" and he began telling me how DeNiro had directed Damon's performance... but RR didn't say a word about lighting or camera stuff, which showed me the guy was keyed (no pun intended) into performance as any film artist should be. What a talented guy.
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Cloud Atlas was awesome! Will it be a hit, not sure. I think when people watch it, they will love it, but not sure if the advertising really sells it well enough. The film seemed to be over so quickly, and yet it was around 3 hours long. It is not complicated, it is just very intense and will definitely keep your attention the whole way through. I can't wait to see it again, to catch more links to each of the stories that are presented. Also, the actors are the same for every story, and it is fun to see who is playing what. Holy Motors, I can say I can see why some people will not like this movie. If you go in looking for a plot line that connects the entire story, it is not easily found, doesn't mean there isn't one, I just couldn't tell you what it is. But the movie is fun and the acting is amazing. There is a sense of something really important is happening the entire movie, but it is always just out of reach. I know that sounds stupid and not good, but it was really something to see. There is an intermission to the film where a bunch of people march around playing a bunch of accordions and a few other instruments, and it is just about one of the best things I have every seen. I can compare it only to the Justin Timberlake lip-syncing the Killers scene from Southland Tales (not a good movie, but a hell of a scene!) Are either of these the best movies I have seen this year? Probably not, Safety Not Gauranteed and Moonlight Kingdom hold that spot for me. But Could Atlas is a very close third.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 9:36 p.m. CST
The audience being perceived as dumb is actually the problem.
by Charlie
Yes uncomplicated can be very successful. However there's plenty of examples of well written intelligent films which come out and do well. The myth people are blubbering morons makes studios less likely to make intelligent films. Also lets face it. 100% of these films we call dumb are actually made for the kid audience. That may be more the problem.
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I've said it before on this site and I'll say it again: you don't HAVE to accept lowest common denominator shit just because you reject the arthouse. The way that some talkbackers polarize the issue is aggravating. It's just the cheapest, easiest way to dismiss an opinion. And by the way, as other talkbackers have mentioned in the past, Michael Bay is not the *worst* filmmaker ever. He's quite capable, especially with a firm narrative hand to guide him. So let's just stop it with the "oh, you don't like my artsy indie flick? Then you MUST want to see nothing but popcorn shit directed by bombastic hacks!" No, dude. I want a solid narrative, capably directed, that entertains me. If it also makes me consider my life or the world around me, that's a bonus.
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You raised some very good points, and i think you are correct. Good insight there, pal.
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It's true what you said, arhouse and michael bay crap movies are not the only type of movies in existence. But they are, like all extremes, representatives of the important argument that has been raised here in this talkback. Personally speaking, my favorite type of movies are those who combine both elements of blockbuster and arthouse, the production values of blockbuster with the intelligence and artistic ambition of arthouse. And this movies not only can, but they do exist, and my favorite all belong to that type of hybrid product, movies like "2001",, "Apocalypse Now, "The Thing", "Blade Runner", The Nolan Batman movies, "Ghost In The Shell", and so many others. And another thing: Michael Bay is the worst director there is. The very high budgets his movies command help to disguise his total ineptitude and incompetence, as big budgets usually do, there is enough money to throw at the problems. And he's not the only one benefiting from that, sadly.
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Cremate it and put it in an urn on the mantle? Make a necklace like Danny McBride did with the minotaur's dick? Donate it to the lady boy from Small Town Security?
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...in Nordling's mouth
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Is that why Inception and The Matrix were such bombs?...Oh wait they weren't.
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Matrix wasn't a bomb because it was billed as an action movie. Had nothing to do with the idea of living in a computer program, we just wanted to see WHAM-BANG KABOOM. As for Inception, something tells me a good portion of the box office there was people thinking it was a Batman movie.
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I love the bit where he says Holy Motors is " a film about the movie between the frames" ... oh dear God. Could you be anymore up your own ass? How fucking dare you generalize and slam American movie goers as a group with your pretense filled "I'm so high above your comprehension" BULLSHIT . You cocksucker, you idiot. Maybe you can do us all a favor then and get the hell out of the country and never blight this website again? I'll probably get banned, but so be it. How fucking trendy and hipster -worthy to claim American audiences are lazy idiots. Fuck you, you shit.
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Sept. 28, 2012, 8:51 a.m. CST
We're not that bad, but we don't appreciate movies on that kind of level.
by TheMachinist
At least, most of us don't. It was a pain in the ass when I first got seriously into movies, because there was no one around who understood a damn thing I was talking about.
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Sept. 28, 2012, 9:16 a.m. CST
If you can't watch it from a "casual moviegoer standpointm," it won't sell.
by HndMeFood
Big budget arthouse flicks are destined to fail at the box office. Suck in that ego and make a movie with a budget that will work for everyone.
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I think a huge amount of ticket sales from INCEPTION were playing off of TRANSFORMERS muscle memory, actually. The big shots of the city blocks folding up with the Titanic boat horn sound effect invoked the idea that the city was turning into something and I think honestly a lot of people showed up to find out wjat.
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I appreciated your answers to my questions. I need to deprogram myself a bit from the blockbuster mentality and spend my movie cash more wisely. The one good thing about the internet and cinefile sites is I can pick and choose good intelligent cinema before I shell out my hard earned cash instead of going to rotten tomatoes and seeing if a movie hovers around 50% with the critics and 98% with the audiences. Its funny in these new super movie complexes here the Detroit area you can shell out $30-$40 and order dinner and drinks while you watch latest blockbuster and whenever you walk out you here two things: Man that sucked! or What a waste of Money! Compare that to when I was a kid and walking out of movies like Raiders of the Lost Ark or Aliens and audiences came out of the theater either giddy or speechless because the quality of the movie. Very interesting your answer about Netflix and Amazon. I recently tried Amazon Prime and Xfinity on demand in their "In Theaters Now" section and I'm seeing some real diamonds in there.
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I know exactly what you mean, i have been in that situation as well.
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You know that guy who physically levitates whenever he leaves the theater and has light emanating from his head due to his superior understanding of what he's just witnessed? That's Nordling, the most intelligent and clued-in son of a bitch that ever watched a movie. Nordling eats, breathes, and SHITS film. He LITERALLY SHITS ROLLS OF FILM!! If you don't like it, you can suck Scott Weinberg's dick and fuck off.
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Why do you want to know man? Are you that desperate to have one of your own?
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and it ended up mixed in with a bunch of other discarded dicks in a landfill, then it got eaten by a big fucking rat.
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Sept. 28, 2012, 11:09 a.m. CST
Sheesh! The phrase is "opinions are like assholes" not "people with opinions are assholes"
by Darth Macchio
Nothing ever changes on AICN altho it used to be much more colorful the ways in which we would hurl verbal shit at one another.
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Sept. 28, 2012, 11:14 a.m. CST
The message of Cloud Atlas that we are all interconnected is desperately needed right now especially with the upcoming election
by SergeantStedenko
Science, particularly Quantum Physics, is proving that that everything that exists is interconnected or more or less One. The belief and cult of the individual ego must eventually come to an end once our true nature is revealed. The concept of the individual and the individual's selfish will to power is short-sighted and has kept us from evolving as a species. The politics of division has played out over the last few millennia and even though we claim to have a democratic republic, the fact is that those in power have been masters at Divide and Conquer and have us all fighting with each other instead of uniting, realizing our power and turning against our true enemies, those who wish to keep us tethered to their false idols. E pluribus unum.
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Useless.
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is being used as a battery in the future.
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Sept. 28, 2012, 1:17 p.m. CST
I love to see the dumb blockbuster fanboy crowd all worked up as if they had their pants on fire.
by albert comin
It really sucks to be called out.
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lol, you bunch of dumbasses with your blockbusters. Keep busting blocks, retards, while Nordling and his puckered butthole appreciates higher forms of artistic achievement in film.
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my new top 4
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when he watches these awe-inspiring slices of magnificence. He sits there and smells his own farts.
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Nordling: *YOU CANT HANDLE THE MOST IMPORTANT FILM OF THE YEAR, YOU BUNCHA STUPID ASSHOLES!!!*
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Sept. 29, 2012, 9:41 a.m. CST
I have to call bullshit on the anti-intellectualism charge.
by FluffyUnbound
There is a certain type of movie fan who only regards a movie as *intellectual* if it refuses to directly make a point. When you say *People demanding an explanation will be disappointed, and they should be* - that, to me, is the true anti-intellectual attitude. If you can't convey your explanation in text, you aren't making an intellectual point. I realize that film is a visual medium, so sometimes the test of a filmmaker is whether they can show not tell - but if it's not possible to summarize or explain what has been shown, you did not make an intellectual point. You conveyed a mood, or created some anti-intellectual zen cognitive dissonance bullshit. You may be in love with the mental state you experience when things don't quite make sense. But don't claim that those of us who don't like it because we consider it a cheap trick are somehow *anti-intellectual*.
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adeceasedfan laughs. :)
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I've had a really hard time taking literature professors seriously after the late, great Dr Asimov recounted a story about his being at a convention and hearing people discussing a story, listened in until he interrupted them and corrected the opinions that it was this and that. It was simply a story about people who did ... because ... and that ... happened as a result. No more, no less. The older gent in the group immediately spoke out about how he was wrong, there were all these subtexts and the story really meant ... and so on. Finally Asimov couldn't stand it any more and asked him who he was to spout such gibberish. "I, sir, an a literature professor." To which Asimov replied "Well I, sir, am the author!" Unperturbed the lit prof came back with "Just because you wrote it, what makes you think you know what it's actually about?" You just can't reason with these people.
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Sept. 30, 2012, 3:29 a.m. CST
CLOUD ATLAS is a piece of shit that deserves to fail
by dioxholsters_scion
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Sept. 30, 2012, 3:30 a.m. CST
cgih8r - Fast Five was actually a good movie for what it was
by dioxholsters_scion
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this guy keeps bringing in the awesome everytime
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why did that tranny do this why
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