Cool News
The Friday Docback Learns 'The Power Of Three'!! READER REACTION To DOCTOR WHO S07E04 Begins With A Spoiler Free Mini-review From Merrick, And More!!
Merrick here...
...with a SPOILER FREE review of The Power of Three, the fourth of five new DOCTOR WHO installments slated to air this Autumn/Fall. Episode number five, The Angels Take Manhattan, transmits next week, and will exit companions Amy and Rory (Karen Gillan and Arthur Darvill) from the series. What I just said isn’t a spoiler, by the way,. The duo’s departure from the show, and its timing, have been highly publicized for some time.
More on The Power of Three shortly. But first...
LAST WEEK’S WHOTININNIES PODCAST IS NOW ONLINE...
In which A Site Called Fred’s Ken Plume and I...
** Discuss the first three episodes of DOCTOR WHO Season/Series 7...
** Revisiting our ‘Is the Doctor a hero?’ discussion...
** Discuss George Lucas’ annoying propensity for retreating from the dark tones he establishes in his movies...
** Talk of the wondrous IMAX issuance of RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK...
** Champion a standardized re-release pattern for vintage/'classic' films...
** Mull THE BLACK HOLE - is it worthy or sucky?
** Blow on that gunk on the tip of Glen’s microphone.
** And more!!
You can find the newest installment HERE, and past installments HERE. A link to this week's instalment will be posted in the space tomorrow night.
THE FIRST THREE EPISODES OF SEASON/SERIES 7 CAN STILL BE SEEN ONLINE...
Asylum of the Daleks (S07E01) HERE in HD and HERE in standard def.
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (S07E02) HERE in HD and HERE in standard def.
A Town Called Mercy (S07E03) - HERE in HD, HERE in standard def!
The Power of Three (S07E04) - HD / STANDARD.
AN IMPORTANT NOTE
RE: IMPENDING SPOILERS
Docbacks are regularly visited by participants from across the globe - which is tremendously cool. Global visitors are cool. Alas, DOCTOR WHO is shown in different times in different places across the world...
For example, it transmits in the UK early evening - which is early afternoon US time.
Accordingly...
This Docback will remain a SPOILER FREE ZONE until DOCTOR WHO’s initial UK transmit (which occurs early afternoon Saturday, US time).
Once DW transmits in the UK, SPOILERS will be allowed in this forum. Thus, folks wishing to remain unsoiled by Dinosaurs on a Spaceship details until they've seen the episode for themselves may wish to tread very, very carefully if entering this Docback after late morning(ish) North American time.
Please note the Spoiler Warning Policy posted on the Code of Conduct below.
The Power of Three - SPOILER FREE REVIEW
If The Angels Take Manhattan is our final goodbye to Amelia Pond and Rory Williams, The Power of Three very much serves as a pre-emptive wake. It is a celebration of the Amy and Rory characters, a final evaluation of how they have interacted (or have failed to interact) with Matt Smith’s Doctor, a cursory summation of what the couple most want and need in their lives, and a not always easy assessment of what they have found instead.
All wrapped within an “slow invasion” mystery package which very much recalls DW’s Russell T. Davies era, while evoking no small portion of ‘Classic’ DOCTOR WHO. Three even manages to trot out some STAR TREKian thematics along the way.
I’ve often discussed Matt Smith’s subtle and ingenious presentation of age when writing about his run as the Doctor. He spins the role as an outwardly youngish guy, who...every now and then...conveys the strain of many years through his eyes, facial expressions, and body motions. This is an inspired notion which Smith lands perfectly - and you’ll see it happen quite a bit in The Power of Three. Longtime WHOvians might find it difficult not to flashback to William Hartnell’s First Doctor during a few sequences here, which may in turn fuel recent speculation that Smith’s 11th is headed into darker, bitchier, less huggable Hartnell-esque territory.
Mark Williams returns as Rory’s father Brian (initially introduced in Dinosuars on a Spaceship - S07E02), and in his own sweet way becomes something a a centurion, not dissimilar to his son. Jemma Redgrave spins a newly-introduced role as Kate approachably and compellingly.
Her (possible?) return to the show in the future would seem most welcome (if not mandated), and would also portend a number of fun and intriguing possibilities.
Director Douglas Mackinnon returns WHO for the first time since 2008 (having previously directed The Sontaran Stratagem and The Poision Sky), and keeps matters moving quite briskly. Mackinnon and Director of Photography Gavin Struthers deploy strange, J.J. Abrams-esque lens flares to abundance during a number of hospital shots. Some viewers may be tempted to attach cosmic significance to this effect - but my money’s on this simply being a stylistic conceit which was a bit over-utilized.
While I’m guessing many fans will not respond terribly well to this episode - its presentation, style, and attitude are decidedly unlike what many may be expected or wanting - I’d argue that The Power of Three is a very nice ramp up to what we know is coming. It represents a very different approach to the loss of characters than, say, STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION’s Skin of Evil, in which one of that series’ leads was ripped away from the show suddenly and forcefully, leaving the characters to wrestle with the aftermath. Here, while the characters themselves don’t seem to know what’s coming next week (or do they?), the audience does know - no secret has been made of Amy and Rory’s exit, and the series itself has pointedly portended the possibility of the couple leaving in a number of ways. Thus, this is the ‘chance to say goodbye’ episode - a recap and remembrance - before moving characters off the playing field entirely.
An interesting and not necessarily expected approach which lends a decidedly bitter-sweet quality to this episode’s Three’s moments. Despite its jarringly cheesy closing line...
The Power of Three. 9/8C BBC America (19:30 BBC One, 9/8C Space)
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NEXT WEEK
The Angels Take Manhattan (S07E05)
__________________________
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Glen Oliver
PREVIOUS DOCBACKS
[Season / Series Seven Docbacks - MOST RECENT DOCBACK IS HIGHLIGHTED]
[SEASON / SERIES SIX DOCBACKS]
"The Impossible Astronaut"
"Day of the Moon"
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"The Doctor's Wife"
"The Rebel Flesh"
"The Almost People"
"The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe" (2011 Christmas Special)
[RETRO-WHO DOCBACKS ]
"An Unearthly Child" (Story #1)
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"The Edge of Destruction" (Story #3)
"Marco Polo" (Story #4)
"The Keys of Marinus" (Story #5)
"The Aztecs" (Story #6)
"The Sensorites" (Story #7)
"The Sensorites" (Story #7 - full DVD release)
"The Reign of Terror" (Story #8)
"Planet of Giants" (Story #9)
"The Dalek Invasion of Earth" (Story #10)
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"The Romans" (Story #12)
"The Web Planet" (Story #13) / SHERLOCK - "A Scandal in Belgravia" (Story #4)
"The Crusade" (Story #14)
"The Space Museum" (Story #15)
"The Chase" (Story #16)
"The Time Meddler" (Story #17)
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"Mission to the Unkonwn" (Story #19)
"The Myth Makers" (Story #20)
"The Gunfighters" (Story #25)
"The Tomb of the Cybermen" (Story #37)
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"The Seeds of Death" (Story #48)
"Spearhead from Space" (Story #51)
"The Colony in Space" (Story #58)
"The Daemons" (Story #59)
"Day of the Daleks" (Story #60) + Preview of the DotD Special Edition
"The Three Doctors" (Story #65)
"Carnival of Monsters" (Story #66)
"Death to the Daleks" (Story #72)
"Invasion of the Dinosaurs" (Story #71) and SHERLOCK: "The Reichenbach Fall" (Story #6)
"The Android Invasion" (Story #83) and SHERLOCK: "The Hounds of Baskerville" (Story #5)
"The Face of Evil" (Story #89)
"The Robots of Death" (Story #90)
"The Talons of Weng-Chiang" (Story #91)
"The Sun Makers" (Story #95)
"The City of Death" (Story #105)
"Nightmare of Eden" (Story #107)
"Kinda" (Story #118)
"Snakedance" (Story #125)
"The Five Doctors" (Story #129)
"The Awakening" (Story #131)
"Frontios" (Story #132)
"Resurrection of the Daleks" (Story #134)
"The Caves of Androzani" (Story #136)
"Time and the Rani" (Story #144)
"Paradise Towers" (Story #145) + New WHOvian Documentary / Newsbits
"Dragonfire" (Story #147)
"The Happiness Patrol" (Story #149)
"The Greatest Show in the Galaxy" (Story #151)
"Doctor Who: The Movie" (aka TVM) - McGann)
DOCTOR WHO: THE COMPLETE SIXTH SERIES
Merrick's Personal Journey With The Doctor (How Merrick Got Hooked On DOCTOR WHO)
DOCTOR WHO Title Sequences & DW At Comic-Con 2011
"The Crash of the Elysium" (Manchester version - interactive DOCTOR WHO adventure)
Why Eccleston Left, Here Comes Caroline Skinner, And Season/Series Six Part 1 on Blu-Ray And DVD
New Trailer For Season/Series Six Part 2
The Companions of DOCTOR WHO + New Trailer & Artwork For Season/Series 7
2) matters of SPOILAGE should be handled with thoughtful consideration and sensitivity. Posts containing SPOILERS should clearly state that a SPOILER exists in its topic/headline and should never state the spoiler itself . "** SPOILER ** Regarding Rory" is OK, for example. "** SPOILER ** Battle of Zarathustra" is fine as well. " **SPOILER** Why did everyone die?" Is NOT good.
3) converse, agree, disagree, and question as much as you want - but the freedom to do so is NOT a license to be rude, crass, disrespectful, or uncivilized in any way. Not remaining courteous and civil, as well as TROLLING or undertaking sensational efforts to ignite controversy, will result in banning. Lack of courtesy may receive one (1) warning before a ban is instigated. Obvious Trolling or Spamming will result in summary banning with no warning. One word posts intended to bump-up any Docback's figures on AICN's "Top Talkbacks" sidebar will be considered actionable Spam - they not only complicate efforts to access Docback from mobile devices, but impede readers' abilities to follow or engage in flowing conversation.
Readers Talkback
comments powered by Disqus-
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Pythagoras is interested
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Like Dinosauce?
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Or at least they could be if they weren't, according to the reviews, utterly stupid. But they gave me a nice little nightmare something like http://www.myspace.com/video/the-outer-limits-original/it-crawled-out-of-the-woodwork/54256114 only ... nastier ...
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I think it's going to be so much more tragic and 'final' than some of us have been speculating. Is merely being zapped into the past by the Angels tragic enough? I think not...
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Good job not saying more about Jemma's character. Her true identity is freely available online, but it'll be a nice little surprise for those who have remained spoiler free. I'd say it's safe to say she'll be back at some point in the future.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 9:11 a.m. CST
Well, it's nice to hear that there might be some good little bits embedded in this episode
by DoctorTom
though I'm still keeping my expectations low. It doesn't sound like we're going to be The Twin Dilemma or Timelash or Time and the Rani bad (or even Fear Her bad). I have a feeling though that many of us have already thought of better things for the falling cubes to have been than what we'll eventually get.
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It's possible that Annette Crosbie could end up being an older Amy, but I think that they've already had an explanation for her recognizing the Doctor. Amelia kept going on about the Raggedy Doctor all the time and even had dolls of him, it wouldn't be surprising if more people had recognized him from Amy's dolls and descriptions of him. It's something that could be explained either way - going with that or because she is an older Amy. It's not something though like the badge, which just says there's no possible way for that to be right.
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While I've enjoyed series 7 thus far, I have noticed that the Ponds seem to be in these stories mostly as an afterthought. It's as if the writers have thought, we don't have a new companion yet, and we don't want The Doctor traveling alone for so long, so we'll just keep on with Amy and Rory for a bit. My kids, especially my daughter, are quite over the Ponds and can't wait for the new companion. I like having the Ponds around, especially Rory, who is, IMO, one of the best companions in the history of the show. But they haven't had much to do except bring portent. Something is going to happen, and we all know it, so they serve to drop clues to that, but not much else, really. I really sort of wish they'd kept the more graceful exit afforded by The Wedding of River Song. At the time, I thought there was no need to really bring those characters back. Having watched these last three episodes, I feel even more so. Having them around this year just feels so self-indulgent. Not to be a knock on either the characters or the actors -- I've enjoyed them (Rory more than Amy, but certainly both actors), but I feel the show needs to move on more nimbly than the writers are letting it. Longtime viewers are used to change in Doctor Who, and even more recent viewers should be getting used to it by now.
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So far the week entry this season has been the Dinosaurs one, though last week made me wish that show might try for a more 2nd Doctor / Jaime / Zoe dynamic using Isaac and Oswyn to join in with 11th Doctor.
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bringing in Rory's dad. It's nice how they had a little bit of character arc with him in the one story, and it will be nice to see him back in this story. Moffat has certainly gotten away from RTD's idea of having the companion's family featured fairly prominantly. Just from the little bit we saw of him in The Big Bang, I would have liked to have seen Amy's dad in the show again. It's a shame we won't. On the other hand, Moffat does like building up others into somewhat recurring roles (not just River) - Craig, Dorium, Madame Vastra and Jenny (who we know will be back). It's still not a family connection though. Of course, we've had the whole family connection thing going on with River being Rory and Amy's daughter, so Moffat might not have wanted any of the extended family around while trying to deal with that (and there were valid reasons for not having the Ponds around in Season 5 - they had shuffled off through the crack and had gone to meet the ducks.)
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otherwise I've got no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
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I have to agree with creepythinmanlives regarding RTD's departure and the quality of the show since Season 5. RTD injected a sense of balance within the show, offsetting both Eccleston and Tenant's interpretations of the Doctor with skillful writing to just make everything fit (please don't interpret that to mean Chris or David did a bad job as Docs. They were both amazing, but at the same time two very different takes on the Doctor). We saw both the lighter and darker sides of the Doctor during Series 1-5, and the ultimate payoff of "The Doctor is building an army" was amazing. Everyone he meets, he weaponizes. That's what stuck with me throughout the end of Tenant's years, and it's partially due to RTD's helming of the show. BUT....don't take that to mean that Moffat is doing a bad job. In fact, in some ways, his run has been superior. Here's why: Moffat's (and Matt's) take on the Doctor has been superb, in a different way. We went from having a very emotional, very empathetic Doctor to having one who feels disconnected from his companions. With David and Chris, the Doctor was very keen on giving people a chance, even the worst species in the world. Doesn't matter if they just killed a room full of people or not, the Doctor gave them a choice, and tried his best to resolve things peacefully. With Matt, he seems like a callous bastard who barely regards the lives of his companions and his enemies alike. He drops them off, pops out for months or years, then comes back like "Yeah that's nice. Wanna go on an adventure?" in regards to their lives. It all seems very dismissive, as if he doesn't really care about their lives from their standpoint, only where they fit into his own life when he has need of them. His wiping out of an entire battalion of Cybermen just for information, for example...that just hit me as such a sweetly, sickly dark turn for Matt. He is no longer patient, or empathetic...not to the extend he was during the first 5 series. He no longer keeps his companions as close to his heart as he did. If anything, it feels like he's coming full circle and becoming Hartnell again. And that is where I believe Matt and "The Moff" are taking us. Full circle. Time is cyclical, even for the Doctor.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 10:02 a.m. CST
creepythinmanlives - the man is clearly making shit up as he goes along
by Mister Vertue
You do realise that *all* of Doctor Who is made up, right? As are all works of fiction. Where exactly do you think the stories and characters come from? The answer: from the mind of the writer. I accept that you may not like the show and you're free to say so, but complaining about 'shit being made up' with regards to Doctor Who is a bit of a silly thing to say.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 10:04 a.m. CST
Creepythinmanlives - something I've seen with nuWho (even with RTD)
by DoctorTom
Something I call Farscape Syndrome (it was most noticeable in Season 4 there) but seems to happen with Doctor Who also now. You tend to get a very good first story, then the stories seem to meander, possibly with a good one, but around mid season it seems to kick into gear, they get a few episodes that are really good, and the arc's plot train is rolling fast enough at that point to carry it through the end of the season, with the last stories being very good. You might get a little drop off on individual stories in the latter part between midseason and the end of the season, but still better than the early season stories. This theory might run aground in Season 2 of Doctor Who when it hits the rocky reefs of Fear Her, but overall it seems to apply. Season 1 we got through the Slitheen 2 parts, Season 2 had the werewolf story, Season 3 had what was probably the worst Dalek story of the new series, Season 4..well, the Ood story, but the second half with stories with Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, Midnight and Turn Left clearly outshone the first half. Season 5 had The Beast Below and Victory of the Daleks, Season 6 lumbered us with Curse of the Bad Plot, er, Black Spot (and remember, Gatiss' story was supposed to be in the first half of the season while Gaiman's was supposed to be in the second half). I think the mid season split that started last year will make this more apparent - Farscape was writing to give us a mid season cliffhanger while it went away for a few months, and we saw the same thing with A Good Man Goes To War. We'll get the arcs worked out to have the tentpoles at the first and last episode of each half season, and will probably have more good stories stuck in the latter half than the first half. I don't know if it's because with them being filmed later there's been more time for writers to work on them (obviously talking about the ones Moffat's not writing here, he's caught in the Red Queen's Race to just not fall too far behind). The Christmas Special messes about with this theory somewhat, especially since most of them didn't fall in with the season proper. Moffat's first Christmas Special was the best by far that we've had, but the last one was pretty dire. Maybe with the new companion coming in we'll see the new one acting like the mid-season tentpole that pushes the quality up again.
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Please expand!
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Sept. 21, 2012, 10:06 a.m. CST
Peter Jackson wants to direct an episode of Doctor Who?
by James Grinnell
At least according to this story: http://www.nme.com/filmandtv/news/the-hobbit-director-peter-jackson-wants-to-shoot/287013 Of course it's never going to happen but thought might be fun to share. We'd at least get an extended version on DVD.
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trip_ellex, those were some good comments. If we really need to sum up differences between the two, I'd say that RTD wanted to go for the emotional punch, even at the cost of plot logic sometimes. Moffat likes to be clever, sometimes possibly too much so. RTD liked the twinkling Peter Pan type endings to the season - glowing Doctors and/or companions. Moffat when trying to go for the emotional core tends to hit the Power of Love cliche (a bit too much in Season 6). That said, both have produced very good scripts and scripts that aren't as good. Both have done well overall for Doctor Who. They're not the same, but we can accept and like both for what they are. We accepted both Phillip Hinchcliffe and Graham Williams (though there were many back in the day who had problems, especially when Douglas Adams was script editor), and most can accept both RTD and Moffat for what they are.
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Apparently this is old news, just seen it on the coaxial. Feel free to ignore me, my fault for not checking in for a couple of days. Anyway. Slightly gutted that this is actually our penultimate Who of this short run. One more and the long wait til Christmas. This is the episode I know least about so will be interested to see what it's all about. I always try to stay relatively spoiler free, but always enjoy the speculation.
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http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/09/16/doctor-who-the-power-of-three-spoiler-free-preview/
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Sept. 21, 2012, 10:17 a.m. CST
That's okay, interested third party, it's such good news it's worth repeating
by DoctorTom
repeating several times, even. If I were Moffat, I'd be talking with the BBC about if we could get the 50th anniversary special, Christmas Special (2013 or 2014, obviously not this year's) or a two parter set in New Zealand and bring Peter Jackson on board for directing. Heck, talk to him and see if he'd want to be involved in creating the story that would be filmed there.
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Why wouldn't it happen? If someone of his clout genuinely wants to direct an episode, the only real question that arises is "when are you free?". I'm sure he'd gladly waive his Hollywood-level fee, and if all the BBC has to do is turn up in New Zealand, they'd be fools not to take him up on his offer. There's no price to be put on that sort of publicity.
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There's no doubting they are different shows. The RTD era seems a lot more lightweight and somewhat frivolous in many respects - but when the strong episodes hit, they were truly excellent. So far under Moffat, I really think that overall the bar quality has been much higher, but I have felt a little lack of coherence over the seasons arcs. Because I've felt Moffat has been a bit more hamstrung in getting in these arc stories he hasn't had the opportunity to really let himself free with some stand alone episodes. The ones where he has had that opportunity have been excellent - The Eleventh Hour, Asylum of the Daleks and the Weeping Angels two parter stand among my favourites since he took over. The Beast Below had its moments, but way too slight though. Moffat is doing a fantastic job. emeraldboy - I'm nowhere near the exit thank you! I am loving Doctor Who more than ever at the moment. But I so desperately want one change to happen. Make the episodes 1 hour long!
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Sept. 21, 2012, 10:33 a.m. CST
While I’m guessing many fans will not respond terribly well to this episode
by V'Shael
After the 3 we've had, that is REALLY saying something...
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I'm still a huge Moff supporter, long may he be the showrunner. That said, I think personally think the last 3 episodes have been Twin Dillemma meets TimeLash bad. So far from being near the exit, I'm still in the front row. But my arms are crossed, and I've got a sour puss on my face while those around me seem to be cheering.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 10:57 a.m. CST
Someone remind CreepyThinMan about the Docback rules please
by SminkyPinky
He's normally ejected from the regular TBs. Don't feed him.
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...have all been great. As frustrated as I got with series 6, I still far prefer Moffat's writing and production style over his predecessor. And don't call it NuWho. It's Doctor Who, plain and simple. A continuation of what went before. And comparing this series so far to The Twin Dilemma or Timelash instantly destroys any credibility your argument may have.
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Moffat's said that RTD's welcome to come back to write a story. Davies has been busy with other things to do it so far. It would be nice though if he could come back and write a Doctor Who episode that could be used as a tribute to Lis Sladen, which would let the Sarah Jane Adventures group (and K9) interact with the Doctor one last time. RTD would give this the emotional punch it would deserve, but would come at it differently than the emotional punch we got from finding out the Brigadier's passed away. Getting to do one last story with the remaining members of the cast, in Doctor Who, might be the one thing to tempt him back to the series.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 11:01 a.m. CST
One thing people either seem to forget or don't acknowledge...
by TripEllex
...is that the Doctor's timeline will end with the Twelfth incarnation, as mentioned in "The Deadly Assassin". I'm wondering if that's where Moff is taking us, to that dark, barely discussed corner of the WHOniverse. In fact we may already be there. A few reasons why Matt may actually be the Twelfth incarnation: A. His regeneration during "The Journey's End" was used to repair his body, and the excess energy was redirected into his hands to prevent the change, though still making him the Eleventh. B. Meta-Crisis Doc could also be considered the Eleventh or possibly the Valeyard (if A is the case), which may see a return of David for a future arc. C. Matt himself may be the Valeyard, give his colder, more callous nature. D. "The Doctor's Daughter" could potentially be either the Eleventh or Twelfth if you incorporate the theories in either A, B or C. Since we never revisited her after that episode, it's wholly possible that they are gearing up for her to be the NEW Doctor, a way of continuing the series past the prophecy from Journey's End. Yeah I know, that's a lot of speculation I'm pulling out of my ass, but if DW is known for one thing, it's playing the Long Con and bringing back elements from many series' past to fruition in the future.
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Shows with over-arching plot lines such as Babylon 5 and the X-Files discovered that "non-arc" stories were considerably less popular than the arc stories. The last two seasons started with arc-heavy stories, which got the fans salivating: what was the crack? who was the girl? Etc., etc. There hasn't been any of that this year: the only "outstanding questions" are ones that will be answered by specific shows (What is the answer to the Question? When does the Doctor actually marry River?) or already have at least partial answers (e.g., what else did the High Gallifreyan on the Doctor's cot say about the Doctor and River?). There is the "how will Amy & Rory leave?" question: but that is pure speculation, not something for which there might be clues. So, without any questions to debate, we fans get antsy!
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Seeing the comments being lobbed about so far, I do believe Glen & I are rather spot-on with tomorrow's decidedly different conversation. I'm quite curious to see the post-episode reaction to what we discuss.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 11:17 a.m. CST
sminkypinky - despite his message header, CreepyThinMan does have valid points in his post
by DoctorTom
that said, it's probably best to keep swearing out of the headers for posts, and typing in all caps in the header for that long a title will tend to predispose people against what's being said in the post itself. The post itself, though, makes it obvious that CreepythinMan is not out to just be a troll with his post; he's acting from a passion for the Davies era that he thinks is lacking now. We can argue about the finer points of that, but he should actually be applauded for the passion he's feeling for the show in general. It's that passion that keep a lot of us coming here regularly. We can debate how Moffat is at characterization (personally I think he's shown himself capable of characterization when you look at the characters like Dorium, Madame Vastra and Commander Strax - he's made us want to see return performances. That said, it's safe to say he prefers cleverness first.), but I won't fault him for maybe having differing opinions from me. (CreepyThinMan, I'd just say to maybe tone the profanity a wee bit - treat this as an all-ages forum like Doctor Who's an all ages show. I'd like to be able to keep on seeing your posts and debating some of the topics you're bringing up)
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There had been thoughts going around in the forum that Matt might step out with the 50th anniversary special - that - hasn't - formally - been - commisioned - yet. I noticed something though in the latest Doctor Who Magazine that hit the US, though - the one with Smith and Patrick Troughton. Matt mentioned that Moffat's been talking to him in general about what Moffat wants to do in the 2014 season. I don't see Moffat talking to him about that if he's going to be regenerating before then. Now, that's not to say that he won't step out at the end of 2014 or keep going, but it looks like we should have Matt into 2014.
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His tone and attitude were what I was talking about. Decent debate is what this place is about and, while I can swear like a Scottish sailor (first part true), I appreciate the effort made to keep thius place civil and from falling into the mire of pointless insults other TBs often do. Personally, I think RTD went too far towards the end of his tenure and his insistence on lighting alien environments with the same green or violet lighting really got on my wick along with the increasing moralising. But I don't think any era has ever been perfect, even my personal fave, Mr Hinchcliffe.
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Nope, he's not going anywhere: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a406858/doctor-who-matt-smith-knows-what-moffat-is-planning-for-50th.html I'm also quite chuffed a chap 2 years above me at film school is director of photography on the currently shooting episode, Simon Dennis. Lookiing forward to that ep particularly now.
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The regeneration energy was definitely used, so I think it's fair to note that technically Smith's the 12th incarnation, with Tennant being the 10th and 11th both. On the other hand, it's still fine to refer to Smith as the 11th as he's the 11th different look/persona for the Doctor. I don't see them as worrying about having only 12 regenerations any more (whether or not it gets brought up before the 14th Doctor is seen on the screen). Meta-Crisis Doctor shouldn't be the Valeyard himself - we're told that handDoctor can't regenerate, and the Valeyard said he was between his 12th and final regeneration. That wasn't the 12th for the Doctor. More likely the Valeyard is a future regeneration of the Doctor himself, with more of the darker impulses that we saw in the Dream Lord having come to the surface. Or, if you prefer one of the theories around here, the ganger Doctor regenerated after being killed at the end of his story, and eventually turns into the Valeyard. You could always have Tennant back as the Valeyard though if you really wanted - he's just regenerated to look like Tennant (though I'd suggest an alternate-world-Spock beard for him in that case - the Master's not using his beard any more, so the Valeyard could borrow it). Moffat's talked about characters like the Rani and not being interested in bringing them back; I'm sure he puts the Valeyard-proper in that category. The new series has the Dream Lord, though, and can pursue similar territory with him. Plus, getting Toby Jones back in the show is always good.
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I think I read that this is no longer part of the canon. By the way, the Rani cannot be brought back because the people who own the rights (Pip & Jan Baker, I think) will not let them use the character. I seem to recall that they left the show on very bad terms.
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Let's be honest. There is no way that any Executive Producer, or whichever BBC are producing the show at the time, will take a popular Doctor Who show off the air because they've hit a limit on regenerations. It just won't happen, not for that reason. Since the show came back, I'm certain that an ongoing discussion amongst writers and production staff is how they will deal with an eventual 14th Doctor and beyond.
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It will probably just be an offhand comment that things were changed in the Time War if it ever actually comes up. It's too useful a device for keeping the series going while changing actors to abandon it. Besides, if they ever wanted to finally kill the Doctor for whatever reason (not that I see them wanting to), they can do it. They've already shown multiple ways to do it (make sure the Doctor isn't wearing a Teselecta when you shoot him that way, have the Doctor not want to regenerate for whatever reason)
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Sept. 21, 2012, 11:56 a.m. CST
BBC axe golden goose as main character reaches regeneration limit.
by Octavian
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River used up all of her remaining regenerations energy to save the Doctor's life in Lets Kill Hitler. Without having to come up with anything more convoluted than that, they're now covered for another 8-10 regens, if they choose to mention that. if not, they can go with something more elaborate when the time comes (and probably will... they'll want to milk all the drama out of "this is the last" that they can). But its basically covered already if they want.
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if the producers at the time want to milk a story or two (probably not a season arc) of the Doctor looking like the Master did in the Deadly Assassin while trying to come up with a way to regenerate again, they will. They wouldn't even have to wait for the final regeneration - just shoot him up with that stuff that River had in Let's Kill Hitler that keeps him from regenerating (and don't expect that to be the last time we see that little compound popping up in a story - Trenzalore awaits...), and you can do the same story while getting the Doctor to rekindle his suppressed regeneration ability. While we're talking about regenerations, though, it might be neat though if they had the Doctor get stuck mid-regeneration for part of a story and he went around with a severe case of Dormammu-head. I know RTD encouraged Doctor Who Magazine to have the actual regeneration from McGann into Tennant and they almost did this there in order to make storyline elements work out (getting rid of the companion in the story), but it would be neat to see it on the screen.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 12:27 p.m. CST
emeraldboy disappeared in a crack? Or what're some replies meant for?
by wtriker1701
Also, creepy has made some furious comments in the past in other talkbacks - the one mentioned above belongs to one of his more civilzed ones. And with parts of his comment I can actually sympathize - didn't think, something liek that could ever happen. ;-) Yes, I would surely love to have RTD write an episode under Moffat's reign. Somebody should make some more effort to get him to, I think. Here's still hope, there are some ducks in the pond that won't be overlooked forever, especially with Amy and Rory leaving. Actually, doctortom, I loved The Beast Below. Very creepy(!) and easily one, that could have fit into RTD's era. And there was always that scene, that Amy *forgot*, or chose to forget. That wasn't explained either... and probably never will be. And I'm still convinced it didn't have to do with the tortured space whale.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 12:43 p.m. CST
Agree about the regenerations and question about Madame Vastra and Jenny
by The Keminrun
I have also assumed that River using up all her regenerations to save the Doctor could be used to explain how he now has more than 12. That bit of Let's Kill Hitler always felt a bit forced to me. They had to come up with a way of explaining why River didn't regenerate back in the Library and that was the best they could do. May as well embrace it all the way now and have it be much more meaningful than a simple plot patch. And while we're on the subject, does anyone have an explanations why River's various lipsticks never affect her? Also, Doctortom, how do we know that Madame Vastra and Jenny and coming back?
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The threat of the Doctor becoming either of these entities should be enough to warrant closer inspection of his current activities. And even if you take them out of the equation, sooner or later he's going to realise/be confronted with the truth that he's turning into a much darker image of himself. A genuine madman in a blue box of terrible possibilities is most definitely someone that the rest of the universe will be far from comfortable with. His changing personality could be down to many things: 1) It might just be his age. Maybe he's that old and jaded that the thought of the Time Lord Victorious isn't such a bad thing. He's given almost every life he ever had to try and make a difference, so why not see out a few regenerations as a vengeful god among fearful insects? 2) Given the nature of time, The Silence, (et al), may well hate the Doctor for what he's going to do, not for what he's already done. This would explain their dogged determination to halt him in his current incarnation. To kill any of his older selves might well cause things like the Time War to end in a way that doesn't benefit anyone, anywhere, ever. 3) He's recently done a lot of travelling on his own. Perhaps he's been doing his homework, knows exactly what's coming, and is becoming the man that the moment will demand of him. 4) Returning to the Valeyard/Dream Lord: Maybe the Meta-Crisis Doctor DID take up a regeneration, meaning that we are on Doctor #12. The idea of forced regeneration has occurred in the books, (the 7th Doctor did it to the 6th), so why not in the television series? The Dream Lord/Valeyard decides to besmirch the good Doctor's name by influencing his actions/decisions, before stepping into his shoes when the right moment arrives. Being unwittingly steered by a version of yourself that has yet to exist holds a lot of interesting potential. Hypothesis aside, the simple truth is that I still care about Doctor Who, fully understand that it has been in constant flux since its very beginning, and know that it will continue to change, just like its main protagonist. I also love the fact that people I'll never meet are willing to gather in a particular corner of the internet at the end of the working week and speak freely and passionately about a shared interest. I learn a lot, I groan a lot, and even though I may not agree with some of you, it won't ever stop me listening. My thanks, as ever, to the makers of Doctor Who - and also to Merrick, for providing a stage on which to sing of its many deeds.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 1:01 p.m. CST
v'shael, i think doctortom is right about why the old lady recognized the Raggedy Man
by bongo dummy
Her son recognized him, young Mel knew what he was all about, even young Rory knew, too. And, I'm sure Amelia's therapist knew of him as well. Though the last part was never made clear if Amelia really had therapy after the Big Bang reboot. If she had parents again did her aunt play a role in raising her? Did her parent's send her to a therapist?
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Sept. 21, 2012, 1:07 p.m. CST
VERY ready to say goodbye to the Pond's ... They have smothered the show AND Smith.
by GINGE_MUPPET
If it had just been Amy along for the ride I think it would have worked ... but having this modern, constantly bickering couple rammed into each and every story ... Just no. Plus (and don't hate me for this) ... In my humble opinion, neither are truly good actors.
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Amy probably had to have therapy even in the rebooted universe. Remember at her wedding how everyone groaned when she started talking about the Raggedy Doctor.
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Say, one or two people are zapped back into time by some force like the Weeping Angels. Even though 'Blink' shows that it is possible two people can be sent to the same time and place, what if they each sent to separate places and/or times? Maybe the circumstances (totally chosen by the writer. haha) would make it that it happens like that. Say, the reason why this would happen is because the two people are each touched by a different angel. The reason why this comes to mind is because v'shael mentioned in the previous DocBack that maybe the Doctor just goes and plucks Rory back from where he is first sent. Well, if the Doctor were sent back in time, he'd know where he was and how to get out of that bad spot. But, there's nothing saying he could home in on a person who was sent back in time and rescue them...or is there a previous episode that says he can? I say no. Getting lost in time can happen and the Doctor may not be able to find what was lost if he doesn't have a clue as to where to start. (it bears mentioning that I have yet to read most of the comments preceding mine today. Time permitting, I'll catch up later before it becomes too many to bother reading.)
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Amy & Rory are lost in time, or trapped in a certain time, wouldn't Brian Williams be super pissed at the Doctor!?
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Not if he's DEAD! (or with them . . .)
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I like to think that the best writing comes from a writer observing their fictional world as if it existed outside of themselves somewhere in the hivemind of the fanbase and they are merely studying it, analyzing it and reporting on it and challenging it in insightful new ways. Fans get alienated when they can't recognize what's in their imagination in what ends up in the story. Of course some fans' imaginations live in our own little parallel universe and are either so disconnected that anyone without ESP can't possibly please us or so vocal in our minority that we risk blocking the writer's view of the wider world of less obsessive fans.
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;) Love the new Whotininnies, by the way. Can I just type it again for tradition's sake? WHOTININNIES!! That video up top was GREAT fun as well. What an accomplishment! Bravo!
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becomes a weeping angel.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 2:41 p.m. CST
keminrun - Madame Vastra and Jenny (slight spoilers insomuch as saying anything about upcoming episodes could be said to be a spoiler)
by DoctorTom
there's been set reports which shows pictures of them - I believe they're going to be in both the Christmas special and the Gatiss episode later. Also it looks like Madame Vastra will have a Sontaran butler (this was something I read Dan Starkey and Neve McIntosh joking about in interviews that they'd like to have happen - it looks like Moffat et al listened and liked the idea).
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.... well, of course, the one "down" side of River is that we cannot speculate about her final fate: we've known that for years! I do wonder if we will learn that there is some reason why she is (generally) going backwards in time relative to the Doctor. Is one of them in reverse? Will the Doctor instigate it to prevent himself from becoming Doctor = Warrior? Will there be some painful "farewell" when the Doctor sends her backwards, knowing that he'll never see her again?
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Just like the Doctor, River might know how she is "supposed" to die and so had a way out. She follows the Doctor in many ways -- and that includes making him think she died (like he made everyone think he died) as payback! Imagine that. I don't believe she lost all her regenerations. If one watches carefully, what we have is a claim that it appears she used all of them to save the Doctor. I don't think she used them all, and indeed, I think the Doctor doesn't want her to know she still has them. The Doctor lies.
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We see River's physical death in Forest of the Dead. And, as makes sense given the way those two work, that's the first time he meets her. It is possible that they'll have the Doctor "retrieve" her from the Library, but, really, why? She's a great character, but Doctor Who works best with the constant turnover of characters. Now, we can make up a lot of "they were lying!" scenarios: but that just lets you justify anything.
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River gave the Doctor ALL her regenerations. He no longer has only 12.
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put all of his regeneration energy into his old hand, which created 10.2 Doctor, wouldn't that make the Eleventh really number Twelve?
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Or so we thought. And so we think we saw River's physical death. But with River and the Doctor, especially together, nothing is as it seems.
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Again, watch carefully. Never says that.
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The regenerations must have been used up to save the Doctor: remember, regeneration by itself couldn't save him. Again, I think that they've dropped the 12 regenerations altogether: they never mention it and there really is not any reason to rehash it.
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But it didn't say the power of one regeneration couldn't save him; he just didn't have the power to do it himself. And why "must" they have ALL been used? Why not 1/3 only? Why ALL?
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Aside from allowing some games with different child actors, I'm still not convinced River's story arc has yet justified giving her that uniquely Time Lord ability. At the time, I thought it was to allow some complex long-term story arcs without needing to be bound to one actress' contract negotiations, but now that River's character arc is more-or-less explained and the ability taken away again, there doesn't seem to be much room left to give her alternative adventures. So is there some piece to the puzzle missing or have I simply set my expectations too high somewhere along the way?
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I'm pretty sure that the Amy avatar simply responded that he could regenerate and then die in 30 minutes. Again, until they start mentioning "12" again, I'm going to assume that they've dropped it altogether. They've had opportunities to discuss a hard number and passed: it's quite possible that Davies and Moffet just didn't like this detail. (ANd, yes, they do get to pick and choose: after all, Doctor Who producers ahve been doing that for 50 years!)
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I've already stated what I hope we see happen. When Matt Smith regenerates, we see the sonic he ends up giving River. We might even notice that the sonic is reading all the power bars filled. The newly regenerated Doctor give the Sonic to River (since we know River's going to be there). In River's future/Doctor's past, we see the Tennant Doctor make the mad dash to plug the sonic into CAL. We see him succeed. We cut to the scene with River with the children in Cal that we had at the end of Forest of the Dead, and she leaves the children's bedroom, just as she did before. We continue to see her this time, however, and see he enter another room where she meets the Matt Smith Doctor. Both were downloaded into CAL. We see them settle down in the room together. The Doctor did die even though he came back with a new persona, and the sonic'd up technology was able to take an imprint of the Doctor, which was kept in there through all the times River has the sonic, until she dies herself and is uploaded as well. Now, maybe River regenerates and maybe she doesn't after her death, but there is copy of her memory uploaded into CAL, and it would me me pleased to no end to know that there was a memory copy of the Doctor with her. You still have the Doctor and maybe even River/Melody/whatever she calls herself after regenerating again running around the universe at large, but you also have the digital copies. Which will probably get bored of being stuck in CAL at some point, no matter how well gilded the prison is, and try for a jailbreak sometime, probably with all the other people in there. (but that's proobably a story for a future Doctor, trying to understand why the 11th version of him and River are standing before him when he doesn't ever remember having had this happen back when he was the 11th Doctor.)
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.... is where they got rid of the 12 regenerations. http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/oct/12/doctor-who-immortal-reveals-bbc.
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Because she's a Time Head. After soaking in the time/space vortex as a foetus, her DNA looks to have some Time Lord strands in there as well as human strands. It makes her as close to a full Time Lord as the Doctor is probably going to find while the War is still time locked. Part of him might have responded to River from an instinctual recognition of that. Plot wise, it was so they could have the nice regeneration effect with the little girl at the end of Day of the Moon, and another surprise regeneration in Let's Kill Hitler. Also it was probably so that they can always claim that it's not the Doctor getting married to a human, but to an almost-Time-Lord.
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Ah, but when will River learn the Doctor's name? And was there anything else written on the cot? Was there a reason why River knew about the cot?
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Sept. 21, 2012, 3:28 p.m. CST
Speaking of regenerating, for a completely different topic
by DoctorTom
The show had established the quick evolution of Alzarians, and I believe they had shown that Adric could heal up damage quickly (which might have been explained by regeneration of the cells in the area). Were his recuperative powers enough to heal him up after forced reentry? Do we have an Adric briefly wandering the Earth cursing the Doctor that left him behind, just before he gets eaten by a dinosaur? (Until now, I hadn't really thought about how plausible that DVD extra Part 5 of Earthshock might actually have been....) (Or, are we going to have Adric be the boy who waited 65 million years for the Doctor to show up, with nothing to do but master his block trransfer computational abilities?)
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Sept. 21, 2012, 3:39 p.m. CST
So does no one have an answer to the deadly lipstick question? (And a rant about regenerations)
by The Keminrun
That's a detail that drives me crazy! How can River wear something that is so deadly to the Doctor and yet does not affect her at all. Does she wear a protective gloss under the lipstick? While I'm on the subject, I really don't like the episodes where they use the idea of the Doctor dying without the possibility of regenerating at a plot point. It seems too lazy. If you are going to base a show on the conceit that the main character regenerates into a different form whenever he dies, then it's bad form to keep coming up with random things which would cause "real" death. Not only does it cheapen the core premise of the show, but it kills dramatic tension. In theory the Doctor could "die" and come back in another form at an time, in any episode and we will have lost another Doctor forever. But when the threat is "you will die and not regenerate" then we know 100% it will not happen and there is no dramatic tension whatsoever. I'm not talking about The Impossible Astronaut, I have no problem with the idea of him dying before the regeneration cycle is finished. I'm talking about Let's Kill Hitler where he is told that he will die and not regenerate (and yet River uses regeneration energy to save him!), and The Girl Who Waited, where it is simply a plot device to the Doctor out of the time streams. In the latter it would have been much more interesting if he had had the attitude of "I may die, and even though I would regenerate I'm not willing to give up this incarnation yet, so you're on your own, Rory." What WOULD have been interesting (had it not been invalidated by the aborted regeneration in Impossible Astronaut), would be if every "you will not regenerate" was because he had no more regenerations left. We never saw 8 turn into 9, so what if 9 were really 11 (having used up 2 extra regenerations in the Time War), making Matt Smith #13.
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.... that way, you can get the two companions that Old Who fans would most like to see devoured by a starving T. rex together in the right place!
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See: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DruggedLipstick. In reality, I do not think that they've had much success making this stuff! Oh, and the Doctor never aborted a regeneration in Impossible Astronaut: that was a robot with a miniaturized Doctor inside. However, what is the problem with having Time Lords dying before regenerating? It's no different from someone suffering a sickness or injury where they might live if they can get treatment in time. So, that's the same suspense as anybody getting (for example) shot: if a gunshot does not kill somebody immediately, then there is the suspense of whether that person can get medical aid in time.
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I've stayed out of the docbacks for a while - well, at least not contributed. Partly because I can't quite pin down what I feel about this season. There's been some interesting stuff written though, so I thought - weigh in! Personally, I loved AotD and DoaS, and thought Gunslinger was solid. I really can't fault them as entertainment, and I have to say I feel spoiled for having something so damned entertaining to watch. Probably most of us who quibble and moan would agree, even if we say the latest episode is rubbish, it's still likely to be 93% better than what's on the rest of the channels. I think what's missing for me isn't actually in the episodes this season. Yes, I miss the arc (purely so the speculation can keep me going) but it's actually more that the season's all split up. I know there are only 5 episodes, so I don't invest as much. It's difficult to explain. It's not like Sherlock, where it was set up as an event. This season feels more like a bunch of specials. That may also have something to do with half of my scifi brain (we each have one - it's been proven) looking forward to the 50th anniversary. Which, again, hasn't been set. I feel like we're in limbo. It's a new season, but not a full season. It's a bunch of episodes, but they're not telling a longer story. It's Doctor Who but it's not the Big 5-0 yet, so something's probably going to be held back. Limbo season. That's what it is to me. Very entertaining, but for whatever reason I'm just not as fully committed as I usually am. That said, bring on this week's episode!
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I agree that there is no dramatic problem with dying completely before a regeneration can occur (which is why I have no problem with tIA). My problem is when fatal threats are classified as "no possible way to regenerate at all" threats simply to make the screenwriter's job easier. And whether it was the Teselecta or the Doctor seen regenerating in tIA (as opposed to in tWoRS) is a huge debate in and of itself. I personally believe it it was the Doctor (since Moff insisted that it was) and that he rewrote time by bringing along the Teselecta in tWoRS.
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We saw an older version of Matt Smith's Doctor taking her to The Singing Towers of Darillium in 'Last Night', (part of the 'Night and The Doctor' minisodes, and the location of their second-from-last meeting), so it's unlikely that she receives her sonic from his successor.
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I personally believe it it was the Doctor (since Moff insisted that it was) and that he rewrote time by bringing along the Teselecta in tWoRS.
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It could happen, if the successor Doctor nips back in time and replaces the Sonic without the Doctor in it with the one that does have him in it. Then, leave the one without the Doctor in it with in the older Smith Doctor's TARDIS (after he's given the sonic away) for him to pick up, possibly with some hints to keep it with him. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey.
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cut and pasted from a darkhorizons article Oculus Katee Sackhoff ("Battlestar Galactica," "Longmire") is set to join "Doctor Who" star Karen Gillan in the horror feature "Oculus" for Intrepid Pictures. Gillan plays a woman named Kaylie who is convinced a haunted antique mirror is responsible for her parent's murder, not her incarcerated brother. Sackhoff will play Kaylie's mother in flashbacks.
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Sept. 21, 2012, 5:25 p.m. CST
I feel sorry, that the Singing Towers of Darillium ended up as a DVD Bonus...
by wtriker1701
It would have been great to see them in an actual episode of DW. Not the smartest move... but that's probably just me... All answers lying in buying the DVDs...
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Here is the retconned proof: http://youtu.be/_9D-2HJMD9s
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Sept. 21, 2012, 6:52 p.m. CST
v'shael - Sadly, I'm pretty much with you on the season so far.
by Perigee
There hasn't been much to chew on this season so far - just a whole bunch of moments that would look good in a clip show. ~Do you remember the time the triceratops nuzzled Rory's dad...?~ (Harp run here) ~This reminds me of that time when you almost killed that alien doctor...~ (Harp run here) ~Eggs? You mean like that time you found the Dalek 'Eggs'...?~ (Harp run here) It all feels very disposable, and of of no importance whatsoever. Temporizing (hopefully) until the second half, when we're onto a new companion and able to chew on something solid. I think you and I are just Arc-y Types. To my mind, these last episodes are nothing I'll be buying the season set to revisit - it's like they've front-loaded all the meh filler episodes this time out.
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That's quite common for these type of shows, and it's something that I remember quite fondly about Babylon 5. That (and the X-Files, Battlestar Galactica, Lost, etc.) was most entertaining when the central arc of an episode was part of a larger arc. Now, a lot of stand alones are quite entertaining - I found the Daleks and the dinosaurs quite intriguing - but it's like a story-telling one night stand when I really am craving a relationship!
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I've been enjoying this batch of episodes - mostly. 'A Town called Mercy' was kinda disappointing, but perhaps that's just because I like more sci-fi in my Who and the Gunslinger just didn't cut it for me. Although it did help emphasize the distance growing between the Doctor and the Ponds and the growing darkness in the Doctor himself. The Arcs are missed so far, but I think someone last week mentioned that this may well be not of The Moff's doing, but I imagine we will have answers to dangling plot threads in the next half of the season. As to the whole regeneration question - of course there's no limit anymore. That would be commercial madness. There'll be some magic box/serum/timey-wimey throwaway line about a change to the limit, or they'll ignore it and just have the Doctor look really surprised when No.14 happens. Or he'll regenerate into a she (waits for fellow fanboys to start frothing at the mouth). Or - none of the above. It's a giant collaborative story told over 50 years by different people with no internal consistency. Which I love - and long may it continue.
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Personally, I think that a lot of what has been going on with the S7 eps is building up another set of people to bring back the next time the doctor builds an army like he did for "A Good Man Goes to War." We met his future companion in Asylum, we met his "gang" of an egyptian queen and a big game hunter in Dinosaurs, and then we got a cyborg gunslinger in Mercy. This all, to me, smacks of buildup, just less obvious buildup.
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It might seem lame but time waits for no man; it stops for no one, etc. Even if he isn't the last timelord, if he's one of a few then, you would think he has possibly evolved in the time since the others were killed. Regeneration is an evolutionary thing, right? So, why wouldn't the ability itself evolve to allow for continual generation? After all, he did his part and got married. He has a cloned daughter, too. His wife shared her regeneration abilities with him and it is hard to see how he doesn't have the ability to continue living, especially if he just doesn't know it yet. I know the 13 limit sounds definitive but you know with serialized stories introducing limitations and weaknesses for a character are normal, routine and who thought New Doctor Who episodes would be made in the 21st Century? So, just say he evolved at some point. Perhaps it happened with TV Movie Doctor, Number 8 himself. But, I'm sure the character has evolved if only because the production continues.
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It's pretty obvious that the Doctor will eventually have more than 13 incarnations. It's bad form, though, to just retcon the 12 regenerations limit. That's storytelling gold right there; a whole season (or more) could be devoted to the Doctor "cheating" death to get more regenerations. And as he got closer and closer to his last form we could see building anxiety about impeding death and how the threat of actually dying might change his nature.
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where are you?
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I'm really looking forward to this episode...... it looks to be the best episode of the season... so far
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While that idea is fantastic, and should be taken advantage of, we already had a similar thing with S6 and the Doctor's "death" in TIA. . .and we all know how well that ended up being resolved. *rolls eyes* I wouldn't mind season based on what you described, with the Doctor facing his impending death, knowing that he is well and truly mortal. . .and hopefully, this time the resolution could actually 1) make sense, and 2) not be a huge cop out, and 3) result in a solid story. Sadly, that probably won't happen. Sigh.
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so we had a prequel to AotD, and ATCM, which other episodes will have prequels?
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why aren't more people posting yet?
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i'm predicting we'll find out why Rory had the 1990 badge in the next 2 episodes... I'm predicting we'll see flickering lights in every episode this season I'm predicting we'll see Oswin at least once more before the x-mas episode.
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as the link suggests.... it is a nifty way to Make your own Power of Three Cube!!! http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2012-09-21/make-your-own-doctor-who-the-power-of-three-cube
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... this year's recurring themes are flickering lights and mentions of Christmas - MOV mentioned in the last Docback that those were the two things Docbackers had correctly picked up on.
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There were some reactions to him, obviously, above...
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and I have followed both RTD and Moffat as writers on TV since the early 1990s. at least. both of their writings on tv marked them out as talented people be it Childrens Ward one of the great teen dramas ever written and the mighty press gang. there were people on this site who deeply despised RTD's tenure on DR who. Some of rtd's episodes were technobabbled filled junk. but the guy knows how to write and anyone who has seen interviewed knows that he is a very passionate writer. those who despised RTD when he stood down as dr who show runner. He had come to the end of his contract and moved on to torchwood etc etc. The eleventh hour Moffats first show as the helmer was the best intro to a dr who series ever. Amy Pond seemed to be an interesting character in that she seemed to be alot smarter than the dr. then the endless river song saga was introduced and I after a while I got bored with it. I loved the slow burn introduction to the silence. The writing for the three leads has at times seemed all over the place. Amy was interesting in the beginning and then season 6 kicks in and she seems to be a very underwritten character. less prone to getting the dr out of trouble, less twitchy. Moffat made smith's dr more manic, i feel. then there was rory. I could never really figure out how rory went from an ordinary guy to the auton rory. For having the temerity to barely critique Moffat. I was blacklisted. which I think is a disgraceful thing to do. so no more emeraldboy. hello popboy. I am looking forward as always dr who and the power of three. no book, writer, tv, show and film or play is beyond criticism. it is a very stupid thing to do to ban anyone because of a mere critique of the current show helmer.
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There are plenty of critiques of Moffat, and the users don't get banned. It's about maintaining the tone, listed in clear instructions for every Docback. If you can't follow the rules, the ban hammer will strike. I've posted where I think Moff is lying about the 50th anniversary, the first 3 episodes of this season have been some of the worst Who writing I've ever seen in 40 years of living on this planet, but I've never been an obnoxious dick about it to the point where the banhammer has fallen. Whatever you were banned for, it wasn't for having the temerity to criticise the Doctor Who staff.
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Sorry, dude. But v'shael is right. It's all about the tone - not the critique in itself. hell I've been a Moffat critique very early on season 5. I've missed Tennant so much, was very cold with Matt Smith. But over the years I came over it, in fact enjoyed most of the episodes during Moffat's run, am still convinced David Tennant's Doctor was the bettter of two (sorry), have been underwhelmed by the story arc's solution so far... but I would never be harsh against anyone in this Docback. For what it's worth, me and and few fellas here invented it. So, welcome, popboy! Enjoy and criticize and say what needs to be said. Just don't behave like others in other talkbacks. Everyone's opinion is welcome here, good or bad!
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Sept. 22, 2012, 8:09 a.m. CST
Interesting though that creepythinmanlives comment is still there...
by dj_bollocks
Anyway, looking forward to tonight.... Maybe the Doctor's Christmas lights aren't working and that's what Moff has written for the Xmas episode hence the lights (first!) and Christmas references... I have a feeling tonight will be a bit like the James Corden episodes, with the Doctor not necessarily taking up screen time until the end... And of course with River and everything Moff... "Time can be rewritten...". We think we've seen her die, but surely we all know better than that now... Anything could happen. For all we know the Ponds could be figments of The Doctor's imagination...
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Moffat said over two years ago that the 1990 badge must have been a prop error and that he was not aware of the date on tag until it was mentioned afterwards. This sort of small production error is not that uncommon. However, in the end, people are looking at these things backwards. The point of putting guns on the wall is to have them build to some over-arching explanation such as the TARDIS causing the crack in time or River Song being Amy & Rory's daughter. Right now, there are no outstanding issues, so there is nothing for which an incongruently dated year is a clue. Hopefully, next year will be back onto arcs, so that we can try to fit the simplest explanation onto the incongruencies!
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Sept. 22, 2012, 8:54 a.m. CST
After watching Jekyll this week my biggest complaint with the Moff
by HornOrSilk
Is he recycles things way too much. He has good ideas, but often the resolutions just miss -- barely but miss -- the build-up given to them, which is why I think people feel a bit let down at the end of the arcs. The Moff is no JMS when it comes to arcs. The Moff also seems to have picked up RTD's idea of Doctor Who: exciting images (or scenes) being of central importance. This is not to say I think the Moff is bad. I think he is great - but I also think he works better under someone else (sorry) so that the conceits end up being smaller and not as obvious. This criticism should not be read as me thinking ill of the Moff -- I think he is the third best New-Who writer (with Paul Cornell and Robert Shearman being the two who beat him). I also think he belongs in the top tier of Doctor Who authors (if one puts in the old series as well). But the weakness is there, and sometimes people see that more than the whole because people know the Moff COULD be pushed to do better. But back to my complaint with the Moff. Seeing Jekyll, I see so many things we have seen in New Who. Jekyll is locked in a big box like the Doctor (and it was a trap which got him there). There is a mysterious woman connected to him (which turns out to be his mother with two personas --the Doctor/River reversed, but otherwise the same--- and makes me think this proves who Madame Kovarian is -- it's River, clear as day, probably returned to life by the Silence from the Library -- the Silence were in the Library after all!); there is a lesbian detective couple (reminds me of a certain Silurian and her companion); etc. If you see it, it becomes clear it is a blue print for the Moff masterplan in DW as well (variations of a theme, to be sure, but all in all, the same).
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After the criticism, there is a lot to say which is good: He knows how to set up a mystery. He can and does use the power of time to his advantage. He gets Doctor Who's ability to change and he delights in it. He writes to a level which doesn't talk down to his audience. His scripts, even if they seem to be full of contradictions, actually work up to consistent wholes if you study them carefully -- he gives outs to every major objection. He knows how to have fun while being serious.
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Sorry, I don't have much to add to the discussion of this particular episode. However, I did want to say I've loved reading this column as my wife and I have made our through the Eccleston and Tennant episodes on Netflix. I didn't realize what I was missing all these years!
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His episodes are the ones I seem to enjoy most on repeated viewings. He may seem too clever for his own good sometimes, but he adds layers to his stories better than most.
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Many people are surprised with Doctor Who when they finally give it a chance. It's like watching Star Wars for the first time. It draws you in (if you have the right disposition).
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Some of us have been saying much the same for a considerable time, albeit with slightly less filth. Moffat has been pulling the wool over peoples' eyes for a very long time. His arcs equate to a country house maze with no exit, where his solution is to hack through the privet in the final episode. His "misdirections" are plain lies, and his hyperbole caught up with him some time ago. By the way, this (latest) split series is a complete joke. Who apart from the BBC would approve that? Imagine going to one of the big three US networks with that news.
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First time here this year, I frequented the Docback a bit last year. Must say I'm surprised about the negativity towards the aired episodes thus far. The opener was solid if not quite the success of the last 2 years premiere episodes (although the introduction of the new companion was intriguing) and personally I really enjoyed DoaS, althoughlast week's one was well below par. Bit disappointing considering how good Whithouse's God Complex was last year. I have a confession to make. I used to love old Who when I were a lad, but never got on with RTD's version, I tried it but just couldn't enjoy it. I've seen him in interviews and he's certainly passionate about the Doctor but I find a lot of his stuff overwrought and he took away the element of danger and genuine creepiness that I loved about earlier Doctors. Having been a Moffatt fan since Press Gang I watched the Eleventh Hour and since then haven't missed an episode. My love for Who was back. Although I enjoy reading these TBs and people theorising about what's going on I do think it rather misses the point somewhat . Who has always been an inherently silly show, a show which ultimately recognises it doesn't make any sense, and as such I think it only really needs to make sense in the moment. Timey-wimey shenannigans and all that. That's what Moffatt seems to get, and its reflected in Matt Smith's performance. The unpredictability is back, the eyes seem to convey a long life of pain and heartache and he seems unknowable, distant, genuinely alien. So while River Song's arc might seem complicated for the sake of it, or people could complain about the Doctor travelling back from the future to save himself in The Big Bang, really for me the enjoyment of Who is in the ride. If its entertaining, funny, exciting and with real heart (as the best of the last 2 years have been) then I for one am happy. I'm willing to overlook the occasional lapse in story logic because the characters and the performances keep it believable and let's be frank, a time travelling alien bouncing around in a magic police box is not the sort of thing that stands up to much scrutiny anyway. Ok essay over. Sorry about the rant, that's like 3 weeks worth of Docbacking in one post.
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Sept. 22, 2012, 10:43 a.m. CST
Black cube printout; don't know if anyone's already posted this.
by The Transformed Man
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/tv/isite-downloads/doctorwho/masks_and_makes/makes/the-cube.pdf
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Sept. 22, 2012, 11:10 a.m. CST
Ok! Something is bugging me about DINOSAURS ON A SPACESHIP, so I wrote this little scene...
by Mark Williams
THE BEACH INSIDE THE SPACESHIP (Rory Williams stands over his Dad as he digs in the sand with his spad) Brian: "See Rory! My survivalist skills really do come in handy sometimes." Rory: "Dad, you missed my wedding because of your survivalist skills. The most important day of my entire life, and you're out foraging for nuts somewhere in the woods!" (Rory's Dad looks up) Brian: "Oh, we're back to that again, are we?...I'm sorry son, I really am. But I do promise you that I will be there for the birth of my first grandchild." Rory: "Umm...Dad...about that...I have something to tell you." Brian: "what is it son?" Rory:"umm...nevermind...we'll talk later." END
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Sept. 22, 2012, 11:16 a.m. CST
HEY EVERYONE! PETER JACKSON IS INTERESTED IN DOCTOR WHO!
by IAmTommyWiseau
This is fresh news, right? Oh, wait. You're telling me that about three other people have brought it up as something nobody else knew even after THIS VERY SITE posted the news on the 19th? Wow. Guess nobody here reads the Coaxial stuff unless it's written by Merrick.
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...is that Amy gets irreparably hurt somehow, and Oswin's lingering consciousness--somehow related to the nanocloud--makes a hard decision that the only way to save Amy from dying is just rewrite her into Oswin as a kind of faux-regeneration. Cue angry Doctor. Also, Rory will somehow be terribly upset at this turn of events and willingly choose to get stuck into a timeloop so he can spend eternity with Amy, re-living his Doctor/Amy days. Also, I've been horribly disappointed with this season outside of AotD. After each week is done, I get depressed and just rewatch AotD to get the taste of DoaS/ATCM out of my head, and try to recall how good Doctor Who can be. I mean, the two prior episodes weren't BAD, per se. It's just that they were bland and uninspired beyond imagination. The worst thing is that TPo3 looks to follow the same trend. Maybe TATM will be better? *crosses fingers* Sorry for the negativity, but Doctor Who's been a bit of a letdown for the past, 4 episodes I think? (AotD excluded of course, that was brilliant in every sense of the word).
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It's possible it's already been brought up, but this season has a recurring theme of people not knowing/forgetting the Doctor. The Daleks are already asking "Doctor Who?". Could this have something to do with why the question will be asked? Everyone will have forgotten the Doctor, perhaps? Maybe that's the point at which he tells River his name (if that is ever really going to happen). Thinking out loud here.
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After all, and as the show has itself stated many time, a title is not a definition or a diagnosis! That being said, there is a recurring motif of "things remembered/things lost" throughout this season. Obviously, that was big in AotD: Amy and Rory had to remember their feelings, Oswin had to remember that she'd become a Dalek, and the Daleks wind up forgetting the Doctor. It was more subtle for Dinosaurs: but an arc full of dinosaurs is something retaining the memory of biological history. Even Mercy played with this: Jek is dealing with memory of what he was and the Cyborg is driven by memory of what he was. Still, much as I like a good motif, I have found that I really crave over-arching plots! (Curse you JMS!!!!)
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as stated.
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2I jsut saw 2 different trailers for The Angels Take Manhattan...be warned, huge spoiler in them, follow the link if you dare! http://www.ksitetv.com/doctor-who/doctor-who-two-trailers-for-the-angels-take-manhattan/16361 Spoilers I noticed, below. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Holy hell, the Statue of Liberty is a friggin Angel! The Tardis gets vanished, but not in the normal way! The Cherub Angels creep me out Someone is using regeneration energy...
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..on the family sofa. Well I hope this is as good as AOTD and better than the other two. I haven't built myself up too much this time just in case.
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You say imagine going to one of the 3 main (actually it's 5 now ;) ) US networks with the split season plan. I'm guessing you're not living in the US, because the US networks already do that. They gear their shows for the November, February and May sweeps periods, and in some of the other months (especially March, when they don't want to compete with college basketball) will book repeats or different shows or specials instead of having new shows. They already break the seasons up in chunks. It's also done on cable TV. USA Network in particular likes to make a deal about the Summer Finale for shows that will come back (you can already see ads for Burn Notice and Suits coming back late this year/early next year, respectively). TNT made a deal about the summer finale of Leverage. AMC did it last season with The Walking Dead. Syfy did it all the time, even in the past. You can look back at Farscape and see where they put in the mid-season cliffhangers, to get the people to come back after the break (I still remember the reaction to mid-season of Season 5, with them taking a break after leaving Crichton floating above Earth in a space suit, with no vehicle to let him go anywhere. One mighty fine hook to reel people back in.) I guess it's not as common in the UK, but that's probably because of the shorter season lengths. And, to be fair, some shows like Top Gear often have what they call 2 seasons in a year when it could have been called 1 season with a break in the middle. (Not this year, since the BBC pennypincher accountants are a bunch of shortsighted ungrateful b@$t@rd$, but most years they've had 2.) I think you'll find that it might not have even Moffat who had the idea of split seasons, that it was the BBC who told him to split the seasons up, and he just had to play the cards he was dealt. And, it it was (at least for Season 6) it was for production purposes, to be able to deliver the episodes and keep some form of quality. Of course, now that they did that and it worked there, the BBC took advantage to stretch the delay for us.
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It's TV filler at best. Put into the schedule to pass away a dull saturday evening on BBC1. The money that could have gone into making BBC1 great again is sadly being spent on its multitude of extra channels they created to justify the TV License.
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Sept. 22, 2012, 1:43 p.m. CST
gordonstsg, welcome to the forums! and welcome back, thegoldbergv
by DoctorTom
Gordonstsg, enjoy the stay here, we look forward to the conversation. Glad you got caught up with the Doctor, it's definitely a fun ride. We have all sorts here, who all started watching at different times - you'll find people who started with Pertwee or Tom Baker, some with other Doctors in the classic series, those who started with when the show came back in 2005, and some (like our moderator Merrick) who started with the first Matt Smith story. I remember seeing you around last year, thegoldbergv, it's nice to have you back! That was a good essay. That and some other comments from others earlier made me think about Moffat's showrunning. I like how he's handling things overall (though I think I'm actually missing having some arc stuff lurking around, and wonder if we're all just grasping at straws with eggs and Christmas because we're feeling arc-deprived), some of his stories (last Christmas, for example) would have been better with someone else in power to bounce it off of, like when he was writing for RTD. Davies showed with Midnight he's got the chops to handle the stories, but some of his extravagances and lapses in plot logic could have been helped if he had been having the scripts go to a script editor or the like to point out where the flaws are. I'm sure if RTD came back and wrote a story for Moffat, the end result would be fantastic, just like Moffat writing for RTD. Although back in the old days of the BBC they didn't want script editors writing stories they'd edit because it would take work away from the other writers, I think it helped things because you had that other set of eyes to help spot problems with the scripts. (And, we've often seen that the script editor rewrites parts himself. Just ask Robin Bland.)
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Is it not true that it was done because of a monumental balls up rather than any plan? The BBC are in the fortunate position of not needing to care about sweeps. By the way Matt Smith seems to be channeling rather eccentric Sky News political correspondent Peter Spencer once or twice tonight. Ooohhh. Powerful little scene between Doc and Rory's Dad there.
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The Doctor's reaction to having gotten too big, and noticed by the Silence is to try to get back into the shadows. This seems to be leading to the Doctor Who? question which ironically is why the Silence were interested in him in the first place. I'm fully confident that the Doctor will answer the question at the Fields of Trenzalore. But, given what's been said so far, just because you have to answer truthfully doesn't mean you can't whisper it to one person, like having him whisper his name to River. This would seem to fit with the bits from when we first saw River when the Doctor said there was only one time he could say his name. People thought it might be when he died/regenerated or when he got married, but given the ground rules of the Fields of Trenzalore that we've been told, it might be the only time he could is when he's there. I don't think the rest of us will necessarily get to hear the name (and I can predict the outrage over that right now, claiming Moffat cheated), but River will.
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for this year I can see the Olympics and the BBC Beancounters cutting back on budgets having influenced the decision. I could also see them making the decision that they wanted Moffat getting season 2 of Sherlock out and giving him time to get Who sorted out after that, giving him the chance to stay with both shows. I think in the end we'll find that it was a combination of things that led to it. I know the UK doesn't care about sweeps, but you seemed unaware of how the US broadcasts series - we're used to seasons getting broken up all the time (though, granted, we're talking about 20 to 22 episodes usually that get broken down). The cable channels tend to counterprogram for sweeps - they avoid the major networks sweeps and tend to start their shows in the off months. That's why you see a lot of summer series, and you hear about shows coming back in (later) November or January, when sweeps have finished. And, networks don't like putting new shows on for Christmas (fortunately BBC America is going forward with same day broadcasting of the Christmas specials). There's been split seasons for other reasons also. Bones last year had a short season of 13 episodes that were split in the middle in order to accomodate the lead actress' pregnancy.
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I don't know if we're licensing it from the UK or not, but I've avoided it so far. The one here looks like a bad ripoff of Ninja Warrior.
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Got a bit loose in the middle... But great writing and really well presented, lights and christmas there again.... Loved the foreboding again... Not looking good for the Ponds....
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more of us docbackers disappear... or post less and less.... it's 14 minutes after noon here in california... usually seph_j is counting down, and letting us know he's about to watch it.... is the show on at 9pm in the UK?
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And certainly more interesting than the last two eps. Loved the Birdie Song box... <p> Gillans voiceovers were annoyingly smug and the resolution was bobbins though. Whilst not by his pen, some may argue a nice little parallel between a nicely wrapped up countdown mystery that ultimately has nothing inside it to Moffs writing habits.
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Sept. 22, 2012, 2:16 p.m. CST
Yay for Emperor Palpatine and his Rubik's Cubes of Dull.
by buggerbugger
Good lord, that vile woman's back next week. Make her go away for good.
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Even the review above gave the impression that this would be a bit naff. Chibbers hasn't really ever hit the heights as a writer and the Ponds have felt for a while that they've outstayed their welcome. So there was the odd silly moment in this story but :- This felt like a return to the magic fairy tale atmosphere of the Eleventh Hour. The Ponds were at their most sympathetic and well written in an age. The whole thing just had an air of magic and epicness about it..I thought it was great. Oh and that relative of you know who just put a huge smile on my face. Chibnall scored an 8/9 out of 10 for me in this one and its the best episode of the season so far. Sods law that having found the right tone for the Ponds we lose them next week.
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Sept. 22, 2012, 2:22 p.m. CST
I'm shocked. I hate Chris Chibnall and expected it to be terrible... but I REALLY liked it.
by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS
What the fuck? I didn't see that coming at all. Next week looks awesome!
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An awful plot that did not make sense and dragged doing it. That was not Dr Who at all. Last season was poor this is even worse. Whats happened to my show!!!!!!!
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How did the plot not make any sense?
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That Darth Devious posted... SPOILERS - http://youtu.be/5ZbKmk84sNI Very exciting...
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Sept. 22, 2012, 2:28 p.m. CST
Felt very like an unused script for the RTD era given a quick polish...
by palimpsest
...but that zipped along very nicely and a new character introduced well (who even rocked a sweetly fourth doctor dress sense). Better than I expected, and a step up from last week's episode. Gutted that I saw the trailers for Angels Take Manhatten, tho...
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Sept. 22, 2012, 2:29 p.m. CST
For me, that was unexpectedly the best episode of the series
by James Grinnell
Thought it was brilliantly paced and really well written, the Doctors speech to Amy as they sat by the Thames was the Doctor at his best.
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Nice to see a bit of downtime for the Doctor and his companions, as the questions of which life to live played out over the course of an entire year. If we're to feel the genuine sting of their departure, this week's episode definitely sharpened the barb. Overall, I really enjoyed it. Felt like the calm before the storm. 4.5/5 In related news: The Birdie Song has never sounded so sinister, and it was nice to hear that the Zygons are still around, even if we didn't actually get to see them.
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Some lovely lines delivered very well. <p> It's just the ending that jarred. I think I would have been a lot more impressed if it had been a study in paranoia and projection ala 'the companion cube' from Portal and the boxes hadn't actually done anything / no monster of the week had deployed them. <p> He may as well have just shouted 'Reverse the Polarity' at the end :)
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I actually would have loved it if he had shouted that!
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1) Where did those guys with the strange mouths come from 2) Why did the guy (forget name) need them when they were completely superflous for his plan to wipe out humans 3) Why did they bring those people on to spaceship 4) Why did they need Rory's dad rather than just as a device for Rory and co to get on the spaceship 5) Why leave open a gateway to go through Although not a plot hole I couldnt help but groan at the Dr's humans learn speech that seemed straight out of Picard to Q in TNG S1 Thought it was a terrible episode and the teaser and watching the over used statues from Blink does not bode well.
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It started off well and reminded me a bit of the Sontaran two parter (whether that's because it was the same director or because it was very "domestic" I don't know). A good improvement over last week which I thought was pretty dull. The introduction of the Brig's daughter was a nice surprise, I just hope she's not another one of the revolving door characters we've had at UNIT in nuWho. I think the main weaknesses of this episode all stem from the ending and the monster-of-the-week. It would be nice for once for the Doctor to meet an alien race he knows nothing about, instead of him being used as an exposition mouthpiece. As for the aliens themselves, they were pretty lame, especially the way there seemed to be little reason for them to destroy worlds using cubes. Also is it me or did the Doctor, Rory and Amy leave a bunch of helpless people on that ship to be blown up? Why were they taking those people anyway? Finally my biggest gripe of this episode is that once again the magic wand er... I mean the Sonic Screwdriver got waved on the spaceship and it made everything alright again. In days gone past the Doctor would have pulled the control panel apart and done some re-wiring. While that's essentially no different from waving the screwdriver at it, it does just feel so anti-climatic and lazy just to use the screwdriver to solve every problem.
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Sept. 22, 2012, 2:54 p.m. CST
Agreed about the magic wand like Sonic. Also: one line that needs banning
by tomdolan04
'I thought you were just a myth / legend / fairytale' <p>
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Because I do not think this episode is good and feel this season has been poor somewhow Dr who is not for me!!!!!!!! I like Who because it was a show that appealed to all aged yet never insulted the intelligence with quality writing and a great main charachter and the exploration of different worlds and times. But this is not it. Caves of Androzoni/Genesis of the Daleks/The Deadly Assasin/Sea Devils/ Inferno/ Dalek invasion of Earth and there are mor. THEY are Dr Who episodes
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Good choices. What are your favourite New Who episodes ?
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Sept. 22, 2012, 3:30 p.m. CST
This week's Docback is a bit like kicking-out time at the pub.
by Captain Howdy
Everyone seems happy, but might just punch you in the face if you look at them sideways. Most unlike the usual run of play.
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Can you not appreciate old Who and Nu Who ? Of course you can - but the two are completely different shows. It's a totally different time, to coin a phrase... Of course the stories you mentioned are the best that Old Who has to offer - you won't find many that disagree, myself included. But TV has changed, culture has changed and sadly we've all changed too. Those stories I watched as a pre teen are still great but if you tried to recreate that today Doctor Who would bomb spectacularly. Now spike fan aside... It really does pain me that us Doctor Who fans are such a picky fickle bunch - I'm just as guilty of it as I dislike a huge amount of RTD's stuff, but I can still appreciate it for what it's worth. But ultimately, for those that persist on having a bitch and moan, life's too short people. It's a TV show, not the end of the world.
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However the ending was rather rushed, which is a shame because I thought the build up was great. But as posted above, why were they taking people and putting them on the spaceship, what was the point of the young girl/robot in the hospital. I give it 8/10 ...still waiting for something to rival The Doctor's Wife this series.
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Lol. Know exactly what you mean -- odd days.
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Yes, the ending was a bit sappy. But the whole episode was kind of a bit sappy. Sweet little moments by the bushel, kind of didn't need a plot that was going to be all save-the-world and stuff. Fluffy plot for an episode full of fluffy moments.
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The problem is, you guys aren't from Philadelphia. We Get It. Fans. The word is derived from Fanatics. And fanatics are what we are, here in this corner of AICN. And if there's anything a Philly knows, it's fanaticism. The rest of the country sees us as a little bonkers, but we know it's all about passion. It doesn't matter if we're screaming ourselves coarse for or against our team, demanding accolades or blood - we're screaming because we're passionate. We care That much. Too much, maybe; but we don't just watch, we don't even just participate - we love so much we claim ownership. And that's cool. At least, it is in Philadelphia. And that's what we are in here. New or Old, Moff VS RTD, Season 6 VS 7, Episode 1 VS 2 VS the ones we haven't even seen yet. We're passionate - we bristle and argue - we are each arbiters of The Truth. Which is Wonderful - you have to recognize the depth of investment we each hold in the franchise to have such strong opinions of it. We have years to dislike things to come. But our loyalty isn't ever to be questioned, in my opinion. We'll argue and fight... like brothers do. But DW is ours. And that is what binds us together.
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Next series they need to go on a quest to save the Time Lords. I've had enough of the great and powerful Doctor, ultimate authority of the Universe. My suggestion would be the return of Romona and a search for the fragments of the key to time.
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Sept. 22, 2012, 4:53 p.m. CST
Wow, I didn't think Chibnall had this in him - not perfect, but good indeed (non-spoilery)
by DoctorTom
I'll go ahead and agree at the start that the problem was taken care of rather easily at the end, and seemed rushed. On further thought, though, that actually seems beside the point. This episode has some similarities to Vincent and the Doctor; both had a monster/invasion plot hook to pull the Doctor in, but the story isn't really about that. In Vincent and the Doctor it was about Vincent's life (and the Doctor and Amy getting to know and to see things the way Vincent does), here it was about the Ponds and how they live their life. The invasion was just an excuse to have the Doctor stay around, and to get into the relationship between the Ponds and the Doctor more deeply. And, in that sense, it succeeded admirably. There are lots of good touches in this, including the Doctor's trips in the TARDIS with the Ponds in this episode, and the scene where we got a classic monster name-checked. Oh, if they could just bring them back (they know we want them, and they're just teasing us now). I liked Brian in this, and I liked the life the Ponds had set up. Even the invasion itself was good up until the very end, where it just got rushed through. Everything before that, and the actual ending of the episode - the aftermath with the Doctor and the Ponds, was outstanding. This was a very pleasant surprise. I'm glad that the review was as non-committal about this episode as it was. It's definitely a different type of episode, but I really enjoyed it, and by not having my hopes up beforehand made it a little bit sweeter.
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We got another mention of eggs. I suspect that the references to eggs won't turn out to be any more than a challenge to work eggs into every script somehow. We did see a Christmastime scene, so we've had Christmas mentions in every episode so far. We had the lights go out during the episode at one point. And yes, the opening credits are even darker than before. I think there was something a little bit new in there too; Bleeding Cool got a screenshot that captured it: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/22/ten-thoughts-about-doctor-who-the-power-of-three/ That frame definitely looks like a shout out to the seventies Tom Baker time tunnel effect. But with an added lightning bolt. I can't wait to see what the credits look like for next week's episode - will they be dark except for the lightning flashes?
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We'll get silent closing credits...
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Sept. 22, 2012, 5:09 p.m. CST
Okay, now that I've seen the episode, there's only one thing to wait for now....Whotininnies!
by DoctorTom
It's so fun to be able to say Whotininnies without having to put a question mark after that. I'm keen to hear what Ken and Glen have to say about this story and recent trends.
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Had some fun moments, mainly to get us ready for a good stabbing next week...Brian at the end was very moving as he told them to go with the Doctor. The small moment while sitting by the Thames was a nice touch. I think the whole invasion, end stuff was the filler, as this ep seemed to be more about getting us re-emotionally invested in Amy and Rory. I will not give it a rating, since I do not do such things, but, I feel it accomplished exactly what it was intended to, get us ready to cry next week when Amy dies and Rory becomes a lonely old man...or vice versa...or whatever...:P
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Or will it be River or Rory ? I'm suspecting it's River or Rory and not Amy, in a selfless act of sacrifice...
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The ending line made me groan...that was just...awful...so terribly, terribly, awful.... Still, here is to next week... Though why do the Canadians have the better trailer for next week? :P
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It will either be Amy or River. But whoever dies, regenerates and turns into Kovarian.
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the TARDIS' current desktop pattern (thought I heard we'd be getting a new inside to the TARDIS for the 2013 batch, though I haven't heard it talked about more than once, and that funny energy around the TARDIS in the preview doesn't look like it bodes well for the TARDIS). Amy and/or Rory - of old age. I still think Amy is going to raise Melody. Having the old age part might reinforce to the Doctor that time still is the boss of him.
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Jekyll and the Moff's repetition of themes from it in Doctor Who. I sort of get the feeling it's Amy for some reason. What was done to her has turned her into a Time-Head too, and she regenerates, angered at the Doctor. She blames him and starts a war against him. It's one of the things we have yet to see in Doctor Who: a companion turn evil. It's worse than death. It also goes with the "Jekyll's Mother" is both good and bad, helping Jekyll AND the corporation seeking to get him (depending upon which side of her is up and running).
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Holy shit - that spoiler shot at the end of that Canadian trailer is fucking awesome! I really, really liked this week's episode. Sure, the ending was rushed and...ok, the ending (crisis averted by sonic) was just plain weak. HOWEVER... the rest of the episode just FELT really nice. At this rate I kind of wish they had brought Rory's dad out earlier. I'm certainly going to miss him and I feel like they could have got more out of him. Kind of bummed that we're almost finished until Christmas, but that's how it goes these days.
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The Doctor seemed to fix/save the situation incredibly fast. Once he figured it out after that holographic sentry disappeared, all's he basically did was point his screwdriver at the screen for a few seconds, and it stopped all that was happening and everyone started waking up. A bit anticlimactic.
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I wonder if it is a female death, how many people will come on and say that Moff doesn't write female characters well... And if it is Amy, that they hated her and Karen's acting is terrible... You know cos #moffhating is cool....
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Sept. 22, 2012, 6:14 p.m. CST
I could be wrong, but I don't quite see it going that far
by DoctorTom
I can see Amy getting upset, though, if Rory dies - we saw that in Amy's Choice. It could be something like that. I was thinking of the repetition of themes also, and thought he'd revisit the theme of finding the person, suddenly old and in a hospital bed - he might do a scene like the one with the policeman from Blink, but do it with Rory instead. I don't think they'll do the Amy turns evil bit, though, but that's just my gut feeling. Plus, although he likes recurring themes I don't think he'll have Evil Amy after we've had Evil River. If they ever want to go the companion going evil route, they just need to bring back Adam with the future computer stuck in his head. He's got plenty of motive, might have the means (he probably still had leads on other alien tech that he was in the process of acquiring for Van Statten that wasn't in the Utah base yet) and probably just needs the opportunity. (Side note: I wonder if he's got the computer in his head wired up so that he can remember the Silents.)
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Sept. 22, 2012, 6:19 p.m. CST
Actually, after the Canadian trailer I changed my mind on something
by DoctorTom
River's going to die. The Doctor gives her regeneration energy to keep her alive though (in a reversal of the occurrence in Let's Kill Hitler). We still might have something happen to the other Ponds, though. After the end of the Canadian trailer, though, I've decided that after the episode shows, I might have to go watch Ghostbusters II (I think Comcast has it on their VOD now)
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Sept. 22, 2012, 6:21 p.m. CST
and now that I've actually read some others' posts, I'm clearly not the only one who thought the Doctor saved the day far too quickly & easily here lol
by TheSeeker7
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Sept. 22, 2012, 6:25 p.m. CST
For 90% of the runtime that was the most solid episode of the season ...
by notspock2
ending was a bit rushed, but the plot was secondary to the character interactions here, so it gets a pass. Lots of nice moments.
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Can't help but think that's ominous in a "I keep visiting you in the past having already seen your fate" kinda way...
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Whotininnies 13: Fan Called Fury Ken and Glen return from a harrowing trip through the mobs surrounding the magical land of Moffington. SPOILER WARNINGS all around. http://www.asitecalledfred.com/2012/09/22/whotininnies-13/
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Sept. 22, 2012, 8:01 p.m. CST
The Power Of Geesh ... and how come there are no Ducks in Whotininnies?!?
by veteran_of_mu
First time I've listened to Glen and Ken. In general, yes, good show fellows. But after the big buildup, no ducks ... I'm let down. Don't do that to me again. You say ducks, do ducks. Oh, and that other show, the one with all the running ... well, I liked hearing about the Zygons. I liked the mystery cube setup. I liked the Doctor's little speech about missing them. And I really liked that there were red and blue bowties - have to go frame by frame to see what's there for the HAT. BUT, That ending sucked the pus out of dead seagulls. I mean .... how many tropes can you fit into 30 seconds? We've got a purposeless sentry robot, a couple of slab knock-offs with Empty Child faces, a bunch of Curse of the Bad Plot kidnapees on beds (atcha Doctom) for no reason, the Doc thinking yet another bad boojum was a myth, another bunch of evil somethings wanting to snuff humanity for no particularly good reason, Darth Vader with helmet off talking about yet another judgement day, more fucking holograms, RTD newscasts about unprecedented things happening on Earth, and, yet again, the Doctor waves his magic wand and saves a third of humanity - except not standing on window ledges. I think dj_bollocks is right. If that's Dr Who, it's not for me. I think from now on I'm going to give away any episode not written by Cornell, Moffatt or Gaiman. TPOT was pitched lower than a SJA episode. Nothing wrong with that - kids have to watch something. But adults have to watch something too.
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I've got a feeling both Amy and Rory will survive..but when they get back, they discover that Rory's dad has died while they have been away, and this is the reason why the stop travelling with the Doctor. No evidence to support this, just my own guess.
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Sept. 22, 2012, 8:40 p.m. CST
Am I the only one bothered by The Doctor ignoring all the other people on gurneys?
by Stegman84
They may as well have been empty pieces of furniture for all The Doctor and company cared. They wake up Rory and then grab Rory's dad and save him, don't so much as check anyone else, or talk about them at all, and then after a ten second sonic fix to the invasion, run away leeaving them all behind in an exploding ship. Nice. And why were those people being taken in the first place? Outside of the plot convenience of moving the main characters about, I mean? Or is that another question that we are supposed to just ignore? I mean a bit of mystery is one thing, but this was just taking liberties. Also up to a third of the world's population up and dies suddenly, and nobody much seemed to care. Gotta say, that kind of bugged me too. I mean there was a lot to like about the episode, I still had a reasonably good time all in all, and yes, it did feel very much like an RTD era episode in a great many ways, but the lack of gravitas and falling back so heavily on the Deus Ex Sonica as an instant fix to anything that ails ya (yet again) definitely hurt the episode. At least for me. I also thought that Steven Berkoff was pretty - lets be kind and say ordinary - here as well. Though I was amused by the fact that even under heavy makeup the old Berkoff bump was still there and visible. Some good moments and good ideas, but it just didn't quite stick the landing for me.
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Sept. 22, 2012, 8:52 p.m. CST
Oh, and the 'evil orderlies' reminded me very much of the Mogarians from classic Who...
by Stegman84
As seen in Terror of the Vervoids during the Trial of a Time Lord arc. Although the Mogarians in that story needed to wear full body suits and face masks, as they couldn't survive in an oxygen rich atmosphere. Under the mask though the grid-like mouth look was very similar indeed, minus the gold face paint. Coincidence or homage? Who knows.
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What if Amy became a weeping Angel?
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Didn't sound or look like 'im!
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Subject says it all. Looking forward to seeing her lots more in the future.
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that should be the name for the bowling alley in Moffington. For those who don't get it, listen to the podcast and all will become clear.
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Good, serious topics about the internet and about fan expectations. Even though we've been told that we're having miniblockbuster episodes this season, since 2005 the show has trained us to look for the clues for the arc each season. I think the fact that we're not sure if there's anything to really look at there, plus things that seem to be a recurring meme in each episode (eggs, Christmas, lights) has most people confused and not sure what to expect. I think the disappointment that some people might have is that people got used to a heavier arc over the last two years, and the seeming lack of an arc has people being more critical now - they're not getting the bit they're used to. It might be the lack of an obvious arc, along with the blockbuster each episode aspect (though I wouldn't say today's was a miniblockbuster) has people feeling wrong-footed. This show will probably wrong-foot people more than some of the other episodes. Like I said earlier, it mirrors Vincent and the Doctor somewhat because the ostensible plot, the invasion, isn't the important throughline in the episode. Following that plot, it feels like we got part one of a two part story, with part two taken care of in 30 seconds. Sure, some things could be explained better (why the setup with the hospital, why the cubemouth things and the taking of people - but the situation here is almost the same as the *what's that watermelon doing there?* scene in Buckaroo Banzai - it's all something thrown in that have to go with the flow on, not that it's important to the real story.) In some other ways, though, this could be compared to Love and Monsters. It's Doctor Who trying something different, and it polarizes people. But, I do have to ask Ken, how would you practically coordinate running 6 different Doctor Who series running at the same time? They're having enough trouble keeping one going on. That said, doing spinoff series might be easier (if you want Captain Jack, or Madame Vastra and Jenny, or the Adventures of the Teselecta), but these might be set up as a one series only type thing. You could have different Doctors showing up in different series. That said, I'd be all for having Sylvester McCoy back in a Doctor Who series shot in New Zealand by Peter Jackson...
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Sept. 23, 2012, 12:02 a.m. CST
@stegman - you're not the only one. The Doc just killed a dozen innocent people.
by veteran_of_mu
Watching it again, the Doc didn't just fail to save the people on the gurneys. He didn't just forget about them. He killed them - apparently because they were boring. His interference with the cubes actively caused the ship to blow. He says, ~Oh dear, all those cubes, there's going to be a terrible wave of energy ricocheting around here any second. Run.~ Not ~Grab a gurney, Ponds, we can save another one or two.~ Not ~I have to make a terrible decision. Save these dozen people here - or save 2 billion on the planet below.~ Not ~I will catch you for this Skakri, and when I do you will burn.~ Just ~Oh dear.~ In AOTD the Doc was happy to let millions of Daleks be blown up for their ~insanity~. And the nature of the insanity was that they thought they were dancers. Not cool. In DOAS the Doc executed the bad guy. Sure, he was a genocidal maniac. But the Doc was going to stop the Tesselectas burning Hitler's buddies. The Doc forgave the Master for turning one generation of humans into killing machines to destroy another generation. So, again, not cool. In ATCM the Doc would have executed Kahler-Jex with a GUN if not for Amy calling him on it. And gave a big old rant about how the bad guys are always getting away with shit and all his niceness is futile. Not cool. Is George Lucas show runner now?
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Sept. 23, 2012, 12:08 a.m. CST
I was hoping UNIT would get to shoot something in this. Oh, and it was weird seeing him come up with the plan while still seeing someone in the background on a gurney.
by whatevillurks
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When it was mentioned within the episode that there were black cube twitters set up, I checked and was shocked when I couldn't find one, not even one set up by BBC or BBCA to tie into the episode (maybe they're there and I just couldn't find them). So I made one. And I admit, it's duuuuumb. https://twitter.com/BlackCubeSurvey
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Would from the Ecclestone era would be Dalek and the 1st part of Moffs Empty Child and the end episode scene regeneration. From the Tennant era I loved pretty much all of S2 which in writing terms I thought was really strong. School Reunion,Girl in the Fireplace, Rise of the Cybermen 2parter, The Satans pit 2 parter and the finale Army of Ghosts and Doomsday 2 parter. The Runnaway bride christmas special For S3 Smith and Jones was a great start and Blink of course,42 and Utopia and Sound of Drums. For S4 Silence in the Libary 2 parter (even if Moff was obviously starting to crib his own stuff here) as well as Midnight and Dystopia which showed the Rusty could write when he wanted too and not simply confused nonsense with Billy Piper worship. For Moff era I loved the 11th hr and most of S5. For S6 tbh not so much it was just a confusing mess that was not properly resolved while pretending it was really clever.While breaking it into 2 halves was a huge mistake in jmo. I did not much like the christmas special in which Dr Who did Narnia. And for S7 you know what I think of this year.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 2:37 a.m. CST
doctortom in regards fan expectations well I can only speak for myself
by spike fan
but I expect an entertaining time watching a good story/plot that I enjoy about charachters I care about. That is what I expect from any writer on any show. Also you talk about fans not getting standalones does not really compute when Moff got famous on Blink which was/is a highly praised standalone. Perhaps they were praised to much as he keeps bringing back the Weeping Angels all the time.
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Thanks for that. I was just looking to make the point that a few people have made already but its worth repeating. This is one of the few threads were basically everybody loves the subject matter i.e. Doctor Who. We may each have vast problems with certain writers or stories but the challenges like " maybe Who isn't for you" are not on. Just thought it worth clarifying, as I already knew from your history on the forum that you couldn'r ever be classed as a "hater".
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In the Moff era there is certainly a tendency to reuse ideas and themes. Which leads me to my big worry that Brian is in fact a Wilf and that we are in for some kind of major reset in regards to Amy and Rory. I can live with the concept of them dying or leaving but never having existed would bugger up the last two seasons no end. I pray Moffatt doesn't try to get too clever with this as it could backfire badly.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say this series is full of BAD episodes, just somehow they are not realising their potential, and that is very frustrating to see. They all have good stuff in them but other areas are confused or lazy or missing. Its like the writers had lots of good ideas and worked them up into good scripts and then the directors shot a previous draft! The stories we are getting on screen don't feel finished. For example, the cube mouths abducting people in Power of Three. In the biggest sense I understand why they were there - a creepy presence to scare the kiddies. That is damn important for Doctor Who because you don't want the kids bored in an otherwise fairly domestic and talky episode. But it needs to be backed up with at least some rationale within the story for viewers older than 7 to bite on. Oh well, series finale next week and the culmination of a story thread running for the last 2 1/2 years so Moffat should have put some extra care into that one.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 4:21 a.m. CST
Mmmmm, just not getting any better is it ... I firmly believe the removal of the Ponds will give the entire show a boost ... If it doesn't ...
by GINGE_MUPPET
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Since season 6 the writing has been all over the place.
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Yes, imo, it's the best of Chibnall's scripts. And 80 % of it is very good. The ending blows it, but not in an extreme way. As people have pointed out, much of what was happening (like with the little girl) just seems to have no connection to the conclusion. It's possible there are scenes cut out or there are plans to return to this story -- but yet on its own, the resolution just feels cheap. I got a sense that they borrowed a bit of Fury From the Deep for this one. One thing which really bothered me: the Doctor's identity wasn't kept hidden by the end of this. Either that comes back to haunt him or the "death" of the Doctor just isn't being used properly.
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The Doctor loses his TARDIS and doesn't regain it by the end of the episode. He's TARDIS-less at the beginning of the Christmas Special. It's only a prediction. I could be wrong. Also, though I have suggested one regeneration conclusion, there is a slight chance that either Amy or River will turn into Clara. And I don't think the regeneration we see is necessarily River. I think we are meant to think it is, which is why I think it is Amy. Also this goes with rumors I heard, where people said Amy was supposed to regenerate once (but it was said she was to do so in AOTD). We will see.
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I'm guessing the regeneration you're speaking of is shown in the Canadian trailer, which I deliberately avoided due to many saying it featured large spoilers. Damn. A warning might have been nice, sir.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00ywfgt I think they're coming for you....
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Exciting, funny, heart string pulling, funny, this is what Doctor Who should be, a fast paced romp, not some stodgy boys club with old school leanings. I welcome the show remembering it can have fun and still deliver strong characterization, the Doc has never been more consistent, he looked focused and in the present of the story more than he has in ages, his reactions mostly fit the circumstances and Smith once again delivered. The Ponds used well for the first time in a while too, Amy made sense here, she wasn't just a voice in the Tardis but part of the team, Rory shaves his legs but still gets a pass, mostly. Though men who shave their legs creep me out.
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Gotta say I found DoaS to be the most enjoyable so far but that one was pretty tight. Gonna miss the Ponds when they go, loved the little shout-out to the Eleventh Hour with them eating the fish fingers and custard. Next week then they're apparently going to pay off some things from Amy's first appearance... are we going to find out why her house has more floors when viewed from outside than inside? Oh yeah. Nice Brian Cox cameo too. Although I could've done without the Apprentice bit
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was. bit slow untill the end. the mole on Berkoffs head was a give away that the villain was him.
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Farscape only had 4 seasons, not counting Peacekeeper Wars.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 9:20 a.m. CST
gamma-ray_joe -- sorry, but if it is a released trailer, it isn't a spoiler imo
by HornOrSilk
Spoilers are things not released to the public.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 9:27 a.m. CST
I think River and Brian will meet at the end of next weeks episode
by tangcameo
She'll be at his doorstep. He opens it just as the Tardis fades away. There'll be tears in her eyes over what's just happened to her parents. He won't recognize her - "Sorry. Can I help you?" And she'll give a little smile and a sad laugh and say "Hi, Grandad." He'll have this surprised look but he'll let her in and then the camera will fade to black as the door closes, knowing she's in there telling him the bad news. *sniff*
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It begins with the death of Amy or Rory. Then we see River changing time.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 9:48 a.m. CST
@doctortom & Horn--speculations on River, Ponds & what happens to them & SPOILERS re: Canadian trailer for anyone who hasnt seen it
by batmancw
First--I really enjoyed this episode for all the "human" moments between the Doctor and the Ponds--a lovely pre-farewell episode. Now, doctortom--I REALLY like your theory re: the sonic--I've often thought that your idea would be a great way for the Doctor & River to spend "eternity" together & hey, I'm a sucker for happy emndings. Now that I went over & watched the Canadian trailer and saw some regen energy in what is clearly a FEMALE hand--must be AMY, since River gave hers up & Amy was clearly affected by all those years of the crack in her wall but its never been fully explained how much, it kinda changes my idea that what i proposed below happens, but since I took the time to type it out, I'm gonna leave it here anyway. God, I hope we dont see Amy regen into Madame K & become a part of the war against him as horn suggests--THAT WOULD be heartbreaking. AND-- as we saw the Doctor telling someone that they "just died" that also kinda blows up my theory below MY NOW PROBABLY WRONG THEORY/WISH Now, as i have not read all the posts, if someone else has already offered this speculation I wouldnt be a bit surprised because the fact that the preview tells us the Angels are sending people back in time lets us know that what I'm gonna suggest iS a possibility. I'm thinking that the Angels will send Amy &/or Rory back to 1969 New York where they will find and raise the newly regenerated Melody form DOTM--you'll no doubt recall we never got an explanation of how she got to New york, but more importantly--who raised her? Obviously, she would have had to regenerate a second time into Mels at SOME point(because IF Time Lords "grow up" at the rate humans do she would no longer be a child by the late 80"s/early 90's) to then make her way--or be taken? by Amy & Rory to GB where she grew up as their best friend--indicating that TL's DO age as we humans do. So, while the Doctor COULD bring Amy & Rory back to 2012, they would choose to stay in 1969 & raise young Melody & River could THEN verify that that IS what happened in her past, so that they actually HAVE to stay. Now that doesnt explain how or why she was still "programmed" to kill the Doctor, but again--THAT would already be part of Amy, Rory's & River's past, so they couldnt take the chance of altering it. I dont know that that would qualify as "heartbreaking", as we've heard the Pond's departure described, but it could be since the Doctor really wouldnt be able to "visit" them either, if they were raising young Melody unless River revealed that he was also a part of her past. So, he would always KNOW when & where the Ponds are, but couldnt go and "play" with them , BUT, they would finally have the joy of 1) having a child that they raise(important because the fact that Amy cannot have more children & Rory has always wanted kids) and 2) they DO actually get to raise THEIR own child, not once, but TWICE--even though they dont & cant learn that Mels IS their daughter --again , because it has all already happened for them. So, I may be totally wrong and again, I'm a sucker for happy endings, but i can see how this would tie up the loose ends of who raised River after she regenerated the first time in NY & how she got to GB to regenerate into a "toddler"(her words) and then grow up with Amy & Rory as best friends. I certainly prefer this theory to one of the Ponds dying or Amy turning into Madame K--THAT would be heartbreaking to me & I suspect it would break BOTH of the Doctor's hearts as well. Cheerio
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All we were told is it "APPEARS" she used all her regenerations to save the Doctor. That leaves it quite open to whether or not she actually did. So don't assume she has none.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 9:51 a.m. CST
@doctortom--SPOLIER for anyone who hasnt seen Canadian trailer
by batmancw
Just read your post re: the Doctor giving River regen energy--God, i HOPE that is the case because I'm gonna HATE it IF Amy regens into Madame K
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Yes, it is heartbreaking, but I think that would be one of the points. It would be used to rival the surprise ending of Earthshock. I just get a sense, however (and I could be wrong), this is where things are leading. I also wouldn't be surprised that, at the end, Amy becomes evil, the Doctor still has no TARDIS, and River is there looking at him with a kind of sigh ("I tried to stop this")
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Sept. 23, 2012, 10:06 a.m. CST
hornorsilk--sadly, I think YOUR theory is more likely than mine, but as i said--im a sucker for happy endings.
by batmancw
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I've heard rumors (probably just talk, but who knows) that what happens next week will look real bad, will be bad, but in the anniversary year something will happen to change it and fix it so it ends up "happy" at the very end.
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BAD now, Like the death ot eh Doctor BAD, BUT it all gets worked out into a "happy" ending for the 50th anniversary year. That actually makes a LOT more sense than my original theory which gave us a "happy" ending mid-season. Maybe the QLA Anti Time device toy that has been solicited is involved somehow in the "fixing" of things--or maybe it is used in some fashion next week, since it has already been released in GB & is showing a November release date on many US based collectible toys sites-- other than Amazon, that is. Since it seems that like myself you dont mind a bit of spoliery info, here's a link in case you havent seen it yet. http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Electronic-Anti-Time-Device/dp/B008XY4952/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348414600&sr=8-1&keywords=doctor+who+QLA+anti+time+device I've already got one on the way because there are plenty of folks--like drivers on Atlanta highways that I'd like to erase from time
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Yes, I saw that, and also the new Sonic Screwdriver (which works on wood). I think the angels get the TARDIS, causing all kinds of destruction to the universe through the power they get. This creates cracks in time... and things start merging in weird ways (rumor for the Christmas Story is that we have, like the Wedding of River Song, a tale which blends different times into one, which goes with the new sonic). We will see. But I do think it will turn out bad -- for now. I could be wrong in how it will happen, but I just get this sense that Amy turns completely rogue (even River wasn't really evil, after all, just naive and manipulated).
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Yeah, i have that sonic as well & its pretty cool both in the look & the fact that it has 7 or 8 different sound & light combos Now re: the story--it DOES make perfect sense that the mid season finale would have a BAD ending. The reason I was thinking it might be some flavor of a happy/bittersweet one is the farewell to the Ponds & no info(at last none I've seen) to suggest that they'll be back--at least not anytime soon & the fact that the Xmas special intros the new companion & would seem to be "in sequence" time-wise since she will be with him the second half of the season
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Sept. 23, 2012, 11:18 a.m. CST
I've always wondered about the framed photos in the orphanage*SPOILERS?*
by tangcameo
Since Amy didn't spend much time with Melody as a baby. I've always wondered if they went back later and crossed paths with themselves and used The Silents to wipe their younger selves memories. I thought the ending would be Silent-centric not Weeping Angels. Maybe they do get thrown back in time, separately (Amy back to her daughter's baby years in the 60s) and Rory somewhere else and this time they can't wait for each other. p.s. LOVED the bit from the Canadian trailer with Rory on the rooftop in NY and turns around and... made my jaw drop. Brilliant idea!
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And well, this one gave it 11/10.. http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/the-angels-take-manhattan-advance-review-39783.htm It has some very minor spoiler things in it, but the author said they tried to keep the major ones out.
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They call it spoiler free, but really, some things could be figured out from it: http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/09/23/doctor-who-the-angels-take-manhattan-spoiler-free-preview/
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Looking at the Canadian trailer, River is earlier seen by the front door of... wherever. The whole Dead thing is said to someone in front of the Doctor, with River seen in the background by the door where we had seen her earlier.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 11:51 a.m. CST
Hornorsilk--WOW--thanks for the link--SPOLIERS IN COMMENT
by batmancw
well, at least I was right about someone getting "Angeled back in time (not that it was a difficult prediction since the US trailer mentioned they were doing that), but wrong about the when. It SEEMS to suggest that Amy decides to stay in 1938 with Rory(the comment about choosing her life with him over the Doctor "AT THE END"--implying that they BOTH survive), IF for some reason the Doc cant bring him back to the present
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I thought I had typed 4, I went back and saw 5. Either that or it was a quick brain fart taking the 5 as the last Babylon 5 season. At least I described the episode end so people would know which one I was talking about. ;) Actually, there is a season 5 for Farscape - it was the comic series from Boom, following on from the Peacekeeper Wars. Technically it might be considered Season 6 since the Peacekeeper Wars took out the meat of what they had wanted to end up doing in Season 5.
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I could swear after they give Rory the alien smelling salt, then Brian that start giving the others the salt and get them off the gurneys. I assumed Amy and Rory get them and Brian out while the Doctor was talking to the hologram.
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Once again, sure thing, so, look away... As I said, you can see River by the door. Another cut - reverse view - Rory saying ~What's Happening?~ A few in between, and then we get River in the background by the door, Doctor looking to where Rory was, and then the statement. Cold blooded. Check it, and see.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 12:42 p.m. CST
batmancw - your theory (spoilers if you're avoiding trailers or blurbs for The Angels Take the Muppets To Manhattan)
by DoctorTom
I had similar thoughts to your theory, figuring New York City and Weeping Angels can't be a coincidence when we have had a scene with Melody regenerating in NYC in January 1970 (6 months after the moon landing). There was one blurb I saw last week: The Doctor, Amy and Rory visit modern-day New York. But the Weeping Angels are lurking here too. When one of the TARDIS crew is zapped back to 1938, Amy discovers that time can’t always be rewritten, not once it’s written in stone. Then, we have the BBC synopsis: The Doctor's heart-breaking farewell to Amy and Rory - a race against time through the streets of Manhattan, as New York's statues come to life around them... With Rory's life in danger, the Doctor and Amy must locate him before it's too late! Luckily, an old friend helps them and guides the way. Taking that, and the bit from the new BBC trailer where the Doctor tells Rory that he thinks they're looking for Rory, it's not hard to start connecting some of these things. Rory's back to 1938, and they find an older Rory in a way that should prevent them from changing time and rescuing him. I've had this hypothesis before, the new BBC trailer just slots in a little bit to help the foundation of that theory. The Angels might be targeting Rory because of his memories of the other universe, when he spent 2000 years as the Lone Centurion. That might make him a tastier meal for the Angels. Heck, it makes him twice as old as the Doctor, so that might be why Rory's first choice as the main course. Now, it's possible that Amy will get to make a choice to go back in the past and live her life with Rory there, but that doesn't sound heartbreaking. Maybe River's there to tell Amy that she *has* to go back to raise young Melody, and that Amy won't be able to be with Rory for quite a while. And, the Doctor can't change this. Now, THAT would be heartbreaking. And, about the regeneration energy, it's the Doctor holding a female by the wrist. The regeneration is in the female, but that doesn't mean that it's not energy being moved from the Doctor's body to there. I'm going to guess that it's River's hand based on pictures from the show where they show Amy reading a book - she doesn't have a ring on that finger in the picture. Also, the Doctor is holding the arm in the same spot that we see an Angel holding River in a different shot in the trailer. That might or might not mean anything, but it was just something interesting to note.
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I think it's actually dealing with things that we'll find in the 2013 batch of stories, not necessarily anything that we'll find out next week or at Christmas.
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is revealed much better in the new trailer at the BBC site. You're right, it's not River - it's Rory.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 12:47 p.m. CST
That last post was a spoiler if you're avoiding all the preview trailers (though this was from the BBC website)
by DoctorTom
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By the way, with as many trailers as BBC has spun off for this one that are on youtube, you can practically see 5 minutes of footage for the thing; a little excessive, but I like what I see.
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how would amy become Madam Kovarian.
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Just because River is in the background doesn't mean it isn't River regenerating (though I think it isn't her). The reason is that one of the trailers has the Doctor saying, more or less, "You just saw your death." Maybe River tries to be at the same place at the same time many times over.
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We still have a lot of possible speculations to give, that's for sure.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 1:53 p.m. CST
doctortom--THANKS--Im glad im not the only one who doesnt mind SPOLIERS--IN my comment, so dont read if avoiding htem
by batmancw
Your comment filled in some gaps & it CERTAINLY would be heartbreaking if Amy & Rory were separated in time & once again, Amy had to be "the girl who waited" to see him again in a sort of repayment for the 2000 years he waited for her. GREAT point about Rory being a "tastier meal" than the Doctor due to his 2000 years as the last Centurian--I hadn't even come near that thought, but it makes perfect sense I read an interview where Arthur Darvill said he wouldnt rule out the Pond's return as a guest appearance, so perhaps he was alluding to something like that---or maybe not, but it sure is fun to speculate As for Amy & Rory reuniting, of course they would both continue aging, so I guess at some point in the future a "guest appearance" could reunite them at more or less the same ages once Amy has finished raising Melody. Now, the ring--good catch re: Amy's hand--I couldnt tell if River was wearing it in the long shot where she was chained to an Angel or not, but it makes more sense that it would be her hand than Amy's, even if its the Doctor giving her some of his regen energy. I still have to think that we've not seen/arent about to see the last of River & I'd love it if her character continued for a long while as the occasional special guest even after Matt Smith leaves the show. I think its such a cool idea that the Doctor has an "equal" or perhaps in some ways, a "better" as his wife & that their relationship would overlap several regenerations Despite the S6 DVD collection hinting that it IS Matt's Doctor that takes her to the "Singing Towers" before her trip to the Library( there are 4 shorts that show the Doctor running around adventuring with River at night while the Pond's sleep if you havent seen them), that scene doesnt means it was the ONLY time they went there. I suspect, as others have suggested, that River WILL be at the Fields of Trenzilor & the Fall of the 11th & THAT is where she learns his true name
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I enjoyed Power of Three, but am just uncharacteristically vacant this week. HATless and uncritical, unlike this reviewer who has declared "We've now had so many pieces of foreshadowing of the Ponds' deaths that I'm calling it — they're completely safe:" http://io9.com/5945611/is-doctor-who-basically-just-a-series-of-unhappy-endings I'm not seriously avoiding HATs and spoilers, I'm just busy, but happen to have Tomb of the Cybermen on in the background. Those Troughton-era cybermen are THE CREEPIEST with their no-frills carapaces and minimalist voices. I'm far, far more terrified of being made into a Mondas cyberman than a Cybus cyberman. Also, this is the first Victoria story I've seen, and I keep reading that viewers didn't take to her because she was passive and out of her depth, but I think her palpable fear of everything right down to her borrowed non-floor-length dress adds considerably to the atmosphere. Also, Doctor who? Doctor 2 is maniacally screaming EVIL MUST BE DESTROYED, so. . . 11 can go a LOT darker before I'll be saying "what a departure from the old series." Oh, my spoilersporty spoiler spoiler (please stop reading right here if you're avoiding Canadian trailer material! Don't say I didn't warn you!)? * * * * That statue is soooo photographically documented as having been constructed in pieces in Paris, shipped in pieces, assembled in New York in pieces. . . Look, I love it anyway, what an un-missable opportunity to go on and use the most obvious yet most far-fetched 'what if' on hand, right (and use it well, I hope!)? Just. . . there ought to have been a quick line thrown in ages ago about Angels being able to take over pre-existing statues that don't completely look like them, and I really hope there's one in next week's episode. There always ought to have been one anyway, not even by way of leading up to this plot twist, but just because it would make graveyards, museums, buildings and gardens that much more terrifying. Ugh, and half-built statues. . . they'd be like. . . zombie Angels. . .
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Sept. 23, 2012, 2:15 p.m. CST
oh. . . please excuse my alleged HATlessness, here is my HAT. . .
by Kathryn Gail
Oh. . . but then. . . braingears slowling turning. . . (again referencing Canadian trailer spoiler) If any image of an angel becomes an angel. . . all those post cards and sno-globes. . . and films. . . *shudder*
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The Angels can toss people into the past. Would it be possible at some point for the Angels to send the Doctor into the Time War? One way I could see it happening if the Angels threw him back into the past - right into the spot where Rassilon was showing up in The End of Time, then him getting swept back with the Master. (When it was all getting bright and blurry, maybe he popped in at the back of the lot.) The Doctor finds himself back on Gallifrey with a pissed off Rassilon, with a Master who might be willing to help him take on the Time Lords there. Now, taking this one step further (or possibly one step too far), a very clever Weeping Angel might toss some more Weeping Angels as well as the Doctor back into that time (they haven't said that the Angels can't toss each other back in time), so we could end up with Weeping Angels wanting to send people back into Gallifrey's past. Now that the thought occurs to me, what's to keep the Weeping Angels from tossing the Doctor into the past, which turns out to be a point where one of his previous regenerations is already doing something? Need a multiple Doctor story? Here's how to get Matt Smith's Doctor involved. Tossed into the past, needing to rely on a past incarnation and a TARDIS with a previous desktop pattern in order to get back.
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Yeah, somebody's going to have to avert THAT, never mind just wanting to go after missing companions!
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gives a very different implication to the end of the original Planet of the Apes movie!
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who created them?
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. . .start appearing in New York City next weekend, I'll have maybe a day to gloat over having called it before being whisked back to a pre-mass-media era and locked up for being mad and corsetless. And whiling away my lucid moments wondering why those gorillas were speaking French when the novel is set up completely differently from the film.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 3:28 p.m. CST
popboy - they come from Mommy and Daddy angels who love each other very much
by DoctorTom
Sorry, it seemed such a perfect straight line. And, given the little cherub statues they're having next week, we might find out that the cherubs actually are baby Weeping Angels. They haven't said yet, but Rassilon made a reference to them, so presumably they've been around a while. Basically, Moffat will let us know their origin if he feels like it. They might not have been created by someone but evolved that way. Based on pure speculation, it would seem that they came about in a spot where there was a Time Rift, and could feed off that. That means there's still the potential they originated on Gallifrey. Or in Cardiff.
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when the Doc revives Rory's Dad, he tells Rory & Amy to get him out of here ; then they leave with Brian, while the Doc talks to the hologram. And after they pop back in, at the end, a bunch of unconscious people are clearly seen still laying on the ship's gurneys, just before the ship explodes. So, yeah, they let them die in the explosion. And maybe there was supposed to be a line here or there about "these ones are already dead, no need to evacuate them", but since they didn't even bother to explain why there were abductees or nurse cyborgs in the first place...
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Sept. 23, 2012, 4:34 p.m. CST
Looks like the Peter Jackson directed Doctor Who just took one step closer...
by Captain Howdy
http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/09/23/doctor-who-producer-willing-to-negotiate-with-peter-jackson/
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further away than we can imagine. The latest news story about Peter Jackson directing (so we know it's recent) has Caroline Skinner quoted as saying - We are already two-thirds of the way through the shoots of series seven and although we filmed a couple of episodes abroad I can confirm for the rest of series seven we will be shooting entirely in Cardiff Bay. So according to this, they haven't even finished shooting Season 7 yet. Does this sound like Season 7.2 is going to be rushed to our screens in early 2013? No it does not.
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The ending was very rushed, but I was okay with that. The big bad was secondary in this episode and what was primary was exploring the characters and why they care about each other. The one on one between The Doctor and Rory's dad reminded us that his companions, some way some how, leave, die or get left behind eventually. As Merrick said, this episode was kind of like a wake. The slow invasion just happened to be happening during the wake.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 5:24 p.m. CST
Just watched it... BEST episode since the Almost People
by Rebel Scumb
Good pacing, good character moments, interesting premise, cool badguy, lots of heart and follow through. I know I've been a bit down on the show lately and the Moffat era in general but this was a fine return to form.
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Chibnall will be the showrunner after Moffat.
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Agreed. I'm still pretty certain it will be: September 2013: back 8 of series 7 September 2014: Series 8 (or some of it anyways)
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Sept. 23, 2012, 5:27 p.m. CST
and I am very keen on Peter Jackson doing an episode or episodes
by Rebel Scumb
Seems like a great marriage of talents
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I find the Cherub angels to possibly be the creepiest version yet... :P My HAT, Amy regenerates into The Master...and I have no evidence to back this claim up, not a shred...so...have at it!
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Sept. 23, 2012, 6:48 p.m. CST
Since I'm starved for good DW I'm strictly avoiding spoilers from here on
by veteran_of_mu
See you all after TATM. Good luck to all HATs!
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Sept. 23, 2012, 8:20 p.m. CST
what is the HAT joke all about? I must have been away when that started
by Rebel Scumb
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Sept. 23, 2012, 9:09 p.m. CST
Ugh, the angels are the only thing that bores me more than Daleks.
by cerberus
The show works best when the villain is a flesh and blood actor like The Cyborg or Solomon and not a silly prop like the Daleks or Angels.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 9:16 p.m. CST
Sad / Interesting news: 5 former Docs teaming up to aid Janet Fielding's battle w/ cancer...(LINK)
by obijuanmartinez
http://www.tenthplanetevents.co.uk/conventions---project-motor-mouth-604-c.asp
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Sept. 23, 2012, 9:34 p.m. CST
Will NY Angels story be present day or might they set in 1965 or 1977
by tangcameo
During one of the blackouts.
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Sept. 23, 2012, 9:41 p.m. CST
Cerebus, if you're really looking for monsters to bore you more than the Daleks or the Weeping Angels
by DoctorTom
try watching The Sensorites. They'll make you yearn for the excitement from a Terry Nation-written Jon Pertwee story.
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sounds like some of the story is going to be set in 1938.
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In Moffat's other season's I felt like I had to see the next show to know what was happening in the big picture. He still did a fine job telling individual stories, but the long payoffs of interleaved story arcs was most genius and gratifying. In my little following of these boards it seems like it was part of part of a plan to change up the ways the season evolves. I find myself not as invested. Maybe I'm missing the big picture and he'll sew it all together in the end.
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Looked great. Sounded great. Creepy. Intelligent but slightly sinister.... ...and yet basically wasted / given bugger all to do. I wish he'd been given more time and better stuff to work with than "I'm a mythical guardian-like thingy that is going to wipe the humans out... all of them!!" (** snore **) I loved 90% of this episode but it was so disappointing to see the cubes go from truly mysterious Maguffins to bog-standard, boiler-pate villainy tools in the last five minutes.
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The ending was pretty bad, but otherwise, I actually liked most of this episode and thought it was pretty great that they gave the Brig a daughter. That said, I still long for the serial nature of last season, which is still my favorite of the show.
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Sept. 24, 2012, 1:47 a.m. CST
My least favourite episode of the series so far, although it did pick up towards the end. Berkoff's villain was great though and look forward to seeing him again in a better episode.
by Bradly Durant
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will be done outside the season 7 back 8, by way of a 50th anniversary? We already know about the Gatiss historical movie. Do you think there will be anything else of note? Or do you think the BBC managed to completely screw the pooch when it comes to the 50th anniversary?
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Why is it nobody else seems to have caught The Doctor's statement about the cubes attacking the nearest human heart...and he was attacked... Hmmm....
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It didn't have any deeper meaning to it.
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but the event is sold out already.
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an ep. how would that work. I cant imagine Peter jackson shooting anything outside New Zealand. its where he lives and works and its where he is based. and it would be a logistical nightmare. unless they shoot they entire thing in new zealand. and send the episode to cardiff studios to be edited. or maybe they will shoot they entire thing in wales and then send it to New Zealand to be edited. Very interesting to see how it all works.
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Sept. 24, 2012, 7:43 a.m. CST
@popboy - They are talking about moving the production to New Zealand
by V'Shael
At least that's where the discussion would start from. To be honest, looking at the shit they went through just to film one of the specials in Dubai, I don't think it's feasible at all to move the entire Production team to New Zealand for a single 45 minute episode.
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So yes, they can film an episode in NZ. That's all it would take. Of course, there are other concerns.
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Sept. 24, 2012, 8:42 a.m. CST
@hornorsilk - New Zealand is a *little* further away than America...
by V'Shael
America is like a 7 hour flight. New Zealand is like ... 22 hours. Perhaps you should look at a globe? :)
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Given The Ponds timey wimey relationship with their daughter, has anyone considered Rory's dad may also be their son? Depending on who gets stuck when of course. Maybe Amy does in fact get pregnant again, tying in what seemed to be a throwaway breakup. Also Brian has been pretty prominent, and given his chat with the Doctor....maybe it's the ol' 'hiding in plain sight' trick. Maybe Brian has been their son all along, Rory's his own Grandpa.
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So? It's still possible to do it. Maybe make it a two-part story. Or a special. It can be done.
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I still think there will be some sort of special/tv movie in the vein of The End of Time or something like that, although it will sort of depend when they air the back 8 of s7. If they're starting the back 8 in September, and there will be the usual xmas special in December, then I doubt there will be anything for the 50th anniversary unless episodes in the back 8 have been written with the anniversary in mind. If for some reason I'm wrong and the back 8 does air this Spring (but then why the whole song and dance about moving the show to Autumn last year????) then I think we will get a 1 special in September. So yes, to answer your question I think most likely they've managed to avoid producing almost any new material for the most signifigant anniversary any show is ever likely to have.
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Sept. 24, 2012, 10:16 a.m. CST
I would like the PJ episode/special to be a big event, maybe a 3-4 parter in the vein of the old show
by Rebel Scumb
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Sept. 24, 2012, 10:25 a.m. CST
My crazy idea of how to bring Dr. Who to the big screen
by Rebel Scumb
Set the movies outside the continuity of the TV show, much like the cushing films. BBC should team with Warner Bros and pitch this as their next Harry Potteresque mega franchise Hire a big team of radically different directors (my wish list) -Christopher Nolan -Alfonso Cuaron -Peter Jackson -Guy Ritchie -Tobe Hooper -Guerilmo del toro -Kenneth Branaugh -Joe Cornish -Edgar Wright -Danny Boyle -David Yates -Peter Weir Give each of them free rein to tell whatever kind of doctor who story they want. Have one producer oversee the development of all the seperate films, much like Kevin Feige does for the marvel films, and figure out what order they go in, have the doctor regenerate at the end of several of the movies so many different actors will play the doctor over the course of the series, so the directors are then free to cast Johnny Depp, Robert Downey Jr, Simon Pegg, Colin Firth, or whoever they like, and the movies will tie together only loosely the way the stand alone episodes of a season tie together. Give each film a modest budget, but enough to do more than any episode of the TV show could, put them all into production over the space of 18 months, then releast 2 a year for the next 6 years.
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Sept. 24, 2012, 10:26 a.m. CST
Oh, and they'd be free to remake classic/fan favorite episodes as their storylines if they wanted
by Rebel Scumb
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Sept. 24, 2012, 10:30 a.m. CST
I still say make a continuation of the Cushing Dalek stories!
by HornOrSilk
But have him regenerate into the new Doctor and do Power of the Daleks. Yes, it would require some use of old Cushing footage, but that can be done easily enough.
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I also doubt the back 8 will air in the Spring. I think we'll get the Gatiss movie at some point in the year. And I think the back 8 will air in October-November, so that the finale can air on November 23rd. *I think most likely they've managed to avoid producing almost any new material for the most signifigant anniversary any show is ever likely to have.* That sums up my thoughts so precisely, I would make it my .sig (if the AICN talkback software wasn't so freaking primitive...)
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http://www.tonecartoons.co.uk/blog/archives/4100
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Sorry, wasn't able to join in with this one....but I'll be here in plenty of time next week!
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My first impulse would be to keep David Yates away from it, but he might actually turn out well. I would definitely add Duncan Jones to the list. He's proven himself with Moon and Source Code.
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Am I missing something? I thought the 'second half' of this series was due to air early next year and was then expecting some specials and maybe the start of season 8 for the 50th year? That was part of the reason originally given for the sparsity of Doctor Who this year? I can't believe that the BBC would throw away the opportunity to celebrate such a massive landmark, or that Steven Moffat would let then. Remember, he promised us that for the 50th anniversary that he had “various plans, but all I can say emphatically is it will be huge". In the Moff we trust?
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Sept. 24, 2012, 12:44 p.m. CST
If i worked on classic Who I'd be getting checkups pretty damn regularly...
by Stegman84
The rate of cancer that seems to be inflicting both cast and crew seems abnormally high. I mean not only is Janet Fielding (tegan) and Jacqueline Pearce (Blake's 7 and The Two Doctors) currently battling the big c, but just in the last couple of years we've lost Elisabeth Sladen, Nicholas Courtney, Mary Tamm, Caroline John, Barry Letts, and Philip Madoc, just to name a few. Travel back a few more years and people from Jacqueline Hill to Michael Shears also succumbed to the bastard c, as did Anthony Ainley, or so it was said, if never officially confirmed due to just how private he kept his life outside of the public eye. There have also been many crew members who, likewise, left us due to cancer's grasp. Not only is it truly sad to lose anyone to this bastard disease, but the ever growing rate that it seems to be occurring is more than a touch disturbing to my mind. Anyway I wish both Janet Fielding and Jacqueline Pearce the best in the battle ahead, and hope that the rest of the cast and crew of years gone by are keeping a keen eye on their own health. We've lost too many good and talented people to this wretched disease already.
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Damn stupid auto-correct.
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and I'd believe Moff putting as positive a spin on things as he could, because he knows if fandom assaulted the BBC it would be counter productive. But yeah, when it comes to the 50th, and why the show was moved to Autumn, and why the series was split, and the stuff revealed by Private Eye, and all that stuff... I don't trust Moffat. And that's just based on the evidence of what has already happened - it's nothing to do with the individual.
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So are amy and rory not going to be in the christmas ep at all? Can't see the unanswered questions (stairs, door, voice etc) that people have regarding amy and such being answered in the next 45 minutes of who.
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Why do all those things have to be tied to Amy? Moffatt's playing a long game. Predates Smith being on the show, and it might go past him as well, depending on how long everyone sticks around. Long as Moffat gets to those points before HE leaves the show, it's fine. Companions are fleeting, the Doctor himself is much longer. As is, River predates the Ponds, and it certainly seems like she'll be around after they leave as well. Other arc mysteries don't need to be tied to them... just their personal ones. (And some of the questions that people insist are stil dangling, like the ducks in the pond, were dealt with in season 5... cracks in the universe ate the ducks, just like Amy's parents.) Other stuff, like the voice and the tardis exploding, are part of the bigger mystery and the never ending war with Kovarian and the Silence, and yes, those do need to still be adressed... but it doesn't have to be in the next episode.
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Sept. 24, 2012, 1:39 p.m. CST
yeah duncan jones is a good choice, oh and also Neill Blompkamp
by Rebel Scumb
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I hope I'm wrong, but this is just my gut feeling based on what we know so far: - season 8 not yet ordered -only word on back 8 of s7 is 'sometime in 2013' -Matt smith interview mentioning no new stuff until 2014 -series 7 still shooting -Private Eye report, even when taken with a grain of salt fits with what we've heard so far -the show went to great trouble to move to the fall, only to a year later switch back to the spring? -Moffat indicating that Dr who should always be an event, and citing the 'starve your audience of new content' approach he uses on Sherlock as a good operating system I have no idea what would motivate the BBC or Moffat et al to go about things this way, but it's feeling more and more like they are
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CUBED! ;-) I still believe the original titel CUBED for the episode would have fit more regarding Amy's last words. It would have thrown another small emotional gut punch for the audience... I think the title gave away too much too early...
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A villain that can exist in all space and time, be everywhere but nowhere, be together but alone... That would be one hell of a villain for the Doctor. Too bad they made them look like chumps that could be destroyed by the wave of a sonic screwdriver... Though it was a hologram on a robot controlled ship... I could see them being a cool new villain for the Doctor. The species that Gallifreyans scared their kids with - the boogeyman of the Time Lords. The Shakri want to obliterate humanity before they spread out and plague the galaxy. The Doctor defends humanity to his last breath...
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Sept. 24, 2012, 2:44 p.m. CST
@doctortom--it IS River's hand--saw a close up photo where she is chained to an Angel and she is the one wearing that ring
by batmancw
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Sometimes I genuinely get really, really scared. Do you know the monsters the Weeping Angels? Well they freak me out so much, cos they're just like, Aaarrrgh. They're so freaky, aren't they? And they're coming back in the new series, in a big way. They're actually in the last episode I'm gonna be in. So that was really scary.
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Sept. 24, 2012, 6:54 p.m. CST
Sorry for messing up in my previous post, it's the quotes gone mad again
by series six
Only half my previous message appeared, sorry. The above is a quote by Karen Gillan in the British newspaper; The Independent. Anyone else think that sounds like the Angels come back later in the series? Again, sorry about everything else falling off.
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I found this a really facinating piece of work - all character and emotes, with the story present but never the focus, even in the moment of resolution. If I'd read the pitch for the story, I doubt I would have believed it would be any fun to watch, but all that pathos and clock-advancing montages just hit for me. I really enjoyed it. The little scene of the Rory's dad asking "what happened to the others who travelled with you?" was so, so well done ... so much communicated in the little pauses between words. (and a surprising number of similar little scenes sort of analyzing the Doctor's relationships) One little quibble - for some reason, I had a little trouble parsing the wording of the ship-projection's speech ... either my hearing is going a little, or I lost some words in the roll of the English accent, or was expecting something more revealing in the non-exposition exposition of that scene.
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the people still on the gurneys before the explosion. Agree it's odd. Does seem like something got clipped for time.
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Oh well, they can't all be winners.
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One of the most disappointing endings I've ever seen to anything with so much promise. All build-up with NO payoff at the end. Loved the beginning and the suspense-humor of the cubes. There's GOT to be 10 minutes of film laying on the floor somewhere with a better explanation of the bad guy and the cubes...just a LETDOWN.
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The timeline for shooting started Monday 20th February 2012. We know they finished shooting the Christmas special just two or three weeks ago. For the purposes of numbering the episodes, I'd keep it out of numerical sequence. Episode 6 Episode 7 Episode 8 (The Cold War) featuring the return of the Ice Warriors. By Mark Gatiss. Episode 9 (Phantoms of the Hex - or The Hider In The House) Filmed as part of Block 5 in July 2012. Episode 10 (The Crimson Horror) by Mark Gatiss. Episode 11 Some sources say this is the episode written by Neil Gaiman. But that's unlikely to be true, as Episode 11 has already been filmed as part of Block 4, back in May 2012. And Mr. Gaiman has indicated he's still writing his episode. Episode 12 by Neil Cross Episode 13 by Stephen Moffat. Now, from what I can see, that means we have 6 episodes still to film. Even allowing a modest two weeks per episode, when you factor in Post Production work, I think the chances of these back 8 seeing transmission in early 2013 is small. Say what you want about RTD as a writer and show-runner, at least he was upfront about the year of Specials (to give David T some time off to pursue other projects). He didn't try to waffle on about how it was good for the show blahdy-blahdy-blah.
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Sept. 25, 2012, 11:02 a.m. CST
v'shael - there might be more filmed, but I might be mistaken
by DoctorTom
I thought they had already shot Gatiss' story, though I might be confusing that with episode 9. I do remember seeing photos of Madame Vastra and Jenny on set well before the Christmas episode was shooting, and it was mentioned as shooting a later episode. I might have conflated that with the Gatiss episode. As for showing in early 2013, it depends what you mean by early. If you mean January, it looks to not have enough time. If you mean start around Easter, then it looks like there should be plenty of time.
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Once again I agree, I think when looking at individual episode scripts, Moffat is capable of better writing then RTD, but as a showrunner I'll take RTD any day. It kinds of raises a larger question of why does the shows airing schedule even need to be a secret?? I think most people are fine with changes to the scheduling (like the 2008 specials season) when at least the expectations are set up front. That said, I didn't know those episode titles you mentioned before and they have some good names for sure!
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While I liked this recent episode, your summary of 'all build up and no payoff' basically encapsulates how I feel about 90% of the episodes in the Moffat era
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While I hope you are right about an Easter start, it does seem odd they would do that after talking so much about moving the show to the Autumn instead of Easter startup last year if they were going to switch it back to Easter the following year.
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dont forget there is someone else in the Moffat universe who can regenerate...The Doctor's daughter. I'm hoping for a return of her, and she could very well be Clara. Very similar disposition to the Oswin we've met.
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I thought the character work was excellent. All the amy/rory/doctor stuff was first rate. However, the side plot with the Cubes? Fell apart very quickly. The initial conceit was interesting, but there were some really lazy broad strokes that left some gaping plot holes as things went along. It felt like what probably should have been a considered and epic villain (bedtime nightmares for Time lords? Got to be significant right? oh wait), was being shoved into the role of a minor one-episode baddie. As others have stated, why were they taking people onto the ship? Why did they only rescue Rory's dad? Surely as they just sprung back up again the same could've been done for the others? And a third of the population wiped out, OK if that's your 'crunch' you seriously think all of them coming back at the end satisfactory? Like human beings can be just stopped/started like a fucking microwave? Come on, we've had much better than this. If the 'threat' side of the episode's plot had been much, much smaller scale it would have worked and been a very strong episode. As it was, it was just a mess and the 'threat' we got just felt lopsided next to the excellent character work. As an example of what I mean, imagine if the episode 'Love and Monsters' had been those idiots vs Davros and you've pretty much got what this episode was. Lopsided and inappropriate. Shame really.
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yes, it does seem odd. Then again, Moffat made a big deal about the move to the fall being better because it's so much darker outside, then has the first batch showing in September - same time as the last half of the season the year before. Maybe he's referring to the last batch of stories - if shooting's going to wrap sooner than v'shael thinks then maybe they'll be trying for something when it actually is dark out. I haven't heard how long shooting is still planned to take for the rest of the stories. I just picked Easter out of the air, it could be sometime between January and Easter. I don't see them shooting now and holding the episodes for the back part of the series until fall 2013, though.
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I know the focus was on Rory and Amy's relationship with the Doctor, and it was nice seeing UNIT having Kate Stewart leading them, but on reflection it seems like UNIT was too passive in the story; at least in the Sontaran 2 parter we had a UNIT very involved in the plot (not to mention a UNIT with their own SHIELD Helicarrier ;) ). The next time UNIT shows up in a story I hope they get to be a more active part of it. And maybe a new Helicarrier too. Actually, if I'm going to wishlist for UNIT, I'd like a story set in the future with UNIT still around and having their own spaceship. Doctor Who promised me a UNIT spaceship back in the 70's - http://tinyurl.com/9e97s6s this ebay auction shows the American cover for the Day of the Daleks novel which promised me a UNIT spaceship. I think it would be great if the new series would pick up on that old cover sometime and give us that spaceship.
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The UNIT Spaceship of Fear Ok. I just made that up for Tom.
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though they might use UNIT on a Spaceship. Actually, with further thought it wouldn't have to be set that far in the future - they've already said that Liz Shaw is stationed on a Moonbase (in the SJA story Death of the Doctor). I wouldn't see them necessarily having it right now because they'd trot it out whenever there was an alien invasion.
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Ok, just got in after a day off and an evening in the pub. But the idea of a UNIT based story got me thinking. I'd call it unity and would base it around the dawn of the 'third age' of man. It's a fixed point in history, UNIT's about to send out its first long distance colonising space flight and there's a battle for control between Kate Stewart's (or her philosophical successors) science and the military, there's something else going on though and the 'power' behind the military faction seems off to the Doctor who's there to observe this momentous occasion.
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I have no evidence or proof but I have a suspicion that you'll see the remaining 8 episodes kick off in late January / early Feb and finish in March to coincide with the school term in the UK. If I remember correctly ITV's schedule at that time is pretty weak. The only thing that would get in the way of Doctor Who's scheduling would be the 6 Nations Rugby, but for the most part that would normally be 2 live games on a Saturday afternoon and 1 on Sunday... Just hypothesising though...
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I totally agree with you. Like I've mentioned before, I still don't know exactly why the TARDIS exploded, the crack in time, which Doctors River knows, who the Silence are, etc etc. Just a bunch of ideas with hardly anything explained or tied up (at least to my satisfaction).
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But I couldn't find any evidence of it, from some quick googling. Granted, I'm hardly a professional researcher, and nor do I have any connection to the show. I agree with what others have said though, that there's simply no sense in them trying to start the second half of the season around Easter - it would shine a great big spotlight on the lie about why the show was moved to the Autumn in the first place.
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Sept. 26, 2012, 3:47 a.m. CST
Great example of how the show has been treated in the past.
by V'Shael
I was watching this little youtube clip, voiced by Colin Baker, which was talking about the missing season during his tenure. For those who don't want to watch, here are the basic facts at the time. The show was getting incredible ratings at the time. (Attack of the Cybermen had almost 9 million viewers) They were deep deep into production on the next season. (Directors had been booked, locations had been booked, most of the scripts had been written, and Michael Gough had been courted to return as the Celestial Toymaker). And the BBC scrapped the entire season, at tremendous cost to themselves. Despite the fact that the show was popular, successful, and a ratings winner. So yeah, when it comes to the BBC screwing over the show on the 50th anniversary, of course I'd believe it. Here's what I could see happening - The BBC decides to savage the budget, to hell with the 50th anniversary. Moffat (behind the scenes) loses his temper. Some producers realise the show is now toxic, and get out of there. Private Eye gets wind of story. BBC decides to crush the story, and demands everyone fall in line with their version of events. Moffat starts trying to find a compromise, to salvage the 50th anniversary from its hate-filled corporate masters. Moffat comes up with an idea to spread the budget for 2012 over two years. Also, cancel Confidential, and take their budget over completely. Cut principle cast from 3 to 2. Cut the numbers of producers from 3 to 2. Of course that's all just drunken speculation right now... shame I don't work for a tabloid, as my working day would be done now, and I get properly pissed...
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00z1278 Prepare to say goodbye to the Ponds...
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... and how it should have started - by being called Cubed. Anyway here's what would have worked as an ending: AMY: Doctor, their faces ... what's wrong with their faces? DOCTOR: Of course. I can't believe I didn't see it before! RORY: What? What? DOCTOR: Come on Rory, think. Two nurses, just like you, saving people. Or are they just dressed that way? RORY: They're not saving them. They were fine until they got here. Like my Dad. [WAVES HIS HAND UP AND DOWN IN FRONT OF BRIAN'S FACE LIKE MOE DOES CURLY. BRIAN FOLLOWS IT.] See? Fine. DOCTOR: Brian is a test subject just like the others. No one told them to stop collecting test subjects. Not in their programming. AMY: You mean they're another auto-doc like the girl with the Black Spots? DOCTOR: I don't know why everyone says you're slow of mind. AMY: Well if they're not nurses then what are they? DOCTOR: Look, what we have here is a machine sent by the Shakri to wipe out humanity by doing things at random and figuring out which of them happens to be the most fatal. Frick and Frack [GESTURES AT THE CUBE FACE GUYS] are sitting in the hospital studying which humans are most badly injured. Once they figured out suppressing heart beats was the most effective thing to do a signal went out to all the cubes saying to do just that. RORY: And now? DOCTOR: And now we give them a counterexample to refute their theory about what kills humans. RORY: Meaning? DOCTOR: Rory, open your hands and close your eyes and I will give you a great surprise. AMY: What about me? DOCTOR: You too. AMY: Hey, what did you mean slow of mind? DOCTOR: I'll tell you later. Close your eyes now. [BOTH AMY AND RORY CLOSE THEIR EYES. THE DOCTOR PUTS A CUBE ON RORY'S PALM] Now ... open them! THE PONDS OPEN THEIR EYES. AMY LOOKS CONFUSED. RORY SUDDENLY CLUTCHES HIS CHEST AND FALLS OVER. AMY: Doctor! Save him! DOCTOR: No. No, I don't think so. BRIAN: But Doctor, he'll - DOCTOR: I don't think so. Oh, by the way, Brian, I need you to watch this cube for me. But keep your distance. BRIAN: Right-o Doctor. If you say so. Will this save him? DOCTOR: It'll save everyone. Just keep watching the cube. From over there. Amy, you too. AMY: But Doctor what did you mean slow of - DOCTOR: No time to explain, I'll tell you later. Trust me. BRIAN: What if he's lying? AMY: That's rule number one. Now watch that cube. [WINK. POUT. DOESN'T HAVE THE FOGGIEST IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON.] RORY: Doctor ... cough ... I think I'm ... aargh. AMY: Doctor, he's - DOCTOR: Watch the cube! AMY & BRIAN: Okay. RORY DIES. THE CUBE FACES PUT HIM ON A GURNEY. THEN HE DRAWS A DEEP BREATH AND SITS UP. ALL THE LITTLE CUBES IN THE ROOM CLUSTER AROUND HIM. THERE IS A BRIGHT FLASH OF LIGHT AND THEY FALL TO THE FLOOR. RORY: What ... what happened? DOCTOR: Like I said. Counterexample. Suppressing your heartbeat didn't kill you. Shakri cubes are trying to figure out what to do next. But they won't have time. [FLASHES SONIC AT A CUBE] There. That cube you've been watching Amy and Brian isn't one of theirs any more. It's one of mine. And it just told the rest of them that the sure cure for the curse of humanity is - [CUBE MORPHS INTO A SMALL GREEN AND RED NUBBIN] Jelly babies. [POPS IT IN HIS MOUTH] Delicious. Have one. AMY: But Rory ... how ... how? RORY: Yes. How how? DOCTOR: Oh, that. Well, let's just say that your number's not up yet. Somewhere in my Tardis there's a special kind of watch. One day, maybe one day soon, I'll give it back to you. But not today. AMY THROWS HERSELF AT RORY. You're all right! RORY, CONFUSED: I ... guess I am. DOCTOR: Brian, have a jelly baby. END. And, yes, I know the Doc doesn't do jelly babies now. But if he were going to get the self-transforming cubes to do something benign, why not?
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Stolen from somewhere else... Can't seem to find a figure relating solely to DW but BBC Worldwide Annual Review gives the following: http://www.bbcworldwide.com/media/19346/bbc%20worldwide%20annual%20review%202009-10.pdf Top Gear, Doctor Who and BBC Earth These three brands have grown strongly, with sales across the company rising by 15.0% to £147.3m and profit by 33.8% to £51.5m. This is an old Annual Review so I tried to find another... And here it is... http://www.bbcworldwide.com/media/64030/bbc%20worldwide%20annual%20review%202011-12.pdf Basically Doctor Who is all over it, and it's one of their self proclaimed "5 Global Brands" along with Top Gear, Dancing With The Stars, BBC Earth and Lonely Planet... it's making them huge amounts of cash (Season 6 Number 1 show downloaded on iTunes in the states)... Now whether that money is filtering down is questionable, Doctor Who like every other part of the BBC at the moment, is having to tighten its belt because of the cutbacks in the licence fee... But I have absolute faith that the BBC know more than anyone that to make money you have to spend money, all of the BBC content around the world attests to that, and particularly why here in the UK, Sky has started to make some content which you will no doubt see around the world in the next year or so (drama, comedy etc). The only issue I believe is how much money Doctor Who will get to deliver its 50th Anniversary, with a view that any extra money it may receive will have to deliver an additional return for the BBC. So if they wanted to get an additional 10% budget they'd have to deliver considerably more in profits. I'd suggest that the BBC have already spent considerably (maybe overspent) this year on the Jubilee and Olympics and are probably looking at keeping things particularly tight next year, given that there's very little they can do to recoup those costs as they can for Top Gear and Doctor Who... I really don't think there's anything to worry about but as a programme maker of sorts myself, Doctor Who like most media outlets is being driven not by programme makers but by accountants. (Maybe why you see things like iDaleks, new sonic screwdrivers etc) Be thankful because it's the BBC that you don't see a branch of Subway or KFC in the Tardis, or the Doctor smoking Hamlet cigars (Cigars are cool...) Rambled on long enough now...
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I'd watch that with much more enthusiasm. Except I'd want to adapt the line about the watch. Too obvious. ;) I have to say I did enjoy TPoT, for the most part, a lot more than Mercy. Even if it fell down at the end. It felt more like what I like in a Who episode than we've had yet this series (although saying that I realise I sound like an RTD fangirl which is so not the case), just a shame the ending wasn't more substancy. And I noticed that the references to Christmas and lights were very much more in your face this episode, but didn't remember seeing an egg...unless we saw the Ponds eating Easter eggs that I missed? I know eggs are not supposed to be a recurring theme, but do they just happen to have been up til now?
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Ok, some dialogue from Angels Take Manhattans continues the suggestion that someone is removing the Doctor from history -- not just with the Daleks. Imo, it is Clara, who might actually be some sort of "virus" whose purpose is to infiltrate different groups, become one of them, and remove the Doctor from their history! http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/the-angels-take-manhattan-advance-review-39783.htm River Song: “It turns out that the person I killed never existed in the first place. Apparently there’s no record of him. It’s almost as if someone’s gone round deleting himself from every database in the universe.” The Doctor: “You said I got too big.” River Song: “And now no one’s ever heard of you. Didn’t you used to be somebody?” The Doctor: “Weren’t you the woman who killed the Doctor?” River Song: “Doctor Who?”
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Sept. 26, 2012, 8:13 a.m. CST
That spoiler alert of course comes with another possibility
by HornOrSilk
The Doctor himself is taken out of time. He has himself been removed from the universe. The crack in time or something like it did it to him. Silence has fallen but the Doctor doesn't know it. Something along those lines....maybe Clara IS the one who made the crack!
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I figure this week is that HAT's last chance, better milk it. Maybe use the puzzled looks as an opportunity for a bit more exposition. Like: RORY: Yes. How how? DOCTOR: Oh, that. Well, let's just say that your number's not up yet. You see the Shakri were ancient when the Time Lords were young. We invented quite a few new tricks those old dogs never learned. That's why they didn't know what would do in a human either. Never saw one before. RORY: But ... I'm alive. Again. DOCTOR [LOOKING AT AMY BUT TALKING TO RORY]: Well, you grew up with Amy. And Amy grew up with a crack in her wall. Shakri can't be expected to keep up with developments like that when their race has never existed since the Time War. This ship [LOOKING AROUND HIM] is an anachronism in the truest sense. It really should be mythical ... DOCTOR ABSENT-MINDEDLY PATS A SMALL BULGE IN HIS JACKET POCKET - NOT WHERE HE KEEPS THE SONIC. AMY THROWS HERSELF AT RORY. You're all right! ---- And the rest plays as before.
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he's removing himself from databases all over the universe, as part of what he said... time to step back into the shadows. Stephen Moffat (I think) wrote a short story once, about how the Doctor deals with his existance becoming common knowledge. He goes back into the past, a few decades before his existance becomes common knowledge, and creates local fiction which tells the stories of a mad man in a box. Then any evidence which comes out, is dismissed as inspired hoaxes. If I remember the essay correctly, there was a brief aside about how the sentient trees on such and such a planet, still chuckle at their primitive bark engravings telling the story of the time traveller in the blue box.
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We have seen it wasn't the Doctor who made it so the Daleks forget him. At least, directly. It's possible she was doing it on orders of the Doctor and using something the Doctor gave her. However, it seems to me, Oswin is doing something..
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Sept. 26, 2012, 12:17 p.m. CST
@hornorsilk - I think it's obvious Oswin did it to the Daleks
by V'Shael
but there's no reason to think she was doing it under orders, or that she's responsible for anything else. I thought the episode was perfectly clear about how she hacked the pathnet.
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When Brian was running down his list of what the cubes are, he said that they might be alien eggs.
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Sept. 26, 2012, 1:16 p.m. CST
Caractuspotts - the original dialog you had was fine, but you forgot the actual final scenes.
by DoctorTom
(Since this might be the last time to have fun with the HAT) DOCTOR: Brian, have a jelly baby. (Suddenly, a groaning, wheezing sound is heard, and a grandfather clock appears. The front opens, and John Simm steps out). MASTER: Well, that's Rassilon sorted, the Time War finished, the Daleks defeated, my body molecularly stabilized, and back to Earth in time for tea. And all it took was getting the voices out of my head. Oh, there you are, hello Doctor! I'm feeling much better now! Shall we go roam the universe...(looks at the Doctor)..oi, mate, is that my watch in your pocket? DOCTOR: Er, uh, um... (hands watch over, looks at Rory) Okay Rory, I'm confused. How DID you survive? RORY (looks at the watch, then looks at the Doctor and laughs) Oh, you thought I was HIM? Oh, no. Well, once in the 70s or was it the 80s? I had a different head on to look like him. But no. Actually, the thing is, Doctor, I'm still an Auton. I don't know how to explain it, but yeah. DOCTOR: What? What? What? You're plastic? Then how did, I mean, you and Amy, I mean, River, how? (River walks in) RIVER: Hello, sweetie. DOCTOR: But, how? I mean, I saw your DNA scan and everything! Human, with Time Lord DNA strands. RIVER: You mean human with PLASTIC Time Lord DNA strands. Part human, part Nestene, synthetic Time Lord extras. DOCTOR: WHAT? RIVER: Your previous regeneration liked saying that a lot also. And, as you like saying on occasion, I'll explain later. Meanwhile, shouldn't you people be heading to New York City? DOCTOR: Would that be a spoiler? RIVER: It's not a spoiler if most people already know, sweetie. I'll meet you there. (Presses some buttons on her vortex manipulator and disappears.) DOCTOR: Sometimes I really hate her when she does that. RORY: No, you don't. DOCTOR: Nooo, I don't. END
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Ok all, think back, way back to the 9th Doctor's season...he gave Mickey a disc that would remove all trace of him from every Earth database. So, it has already been established that he can easily wipe out all traces of himself. Moffat likes to tease us and get us making these grand theories about what is going on, and then the truth ends up being far too simple for us to even see. I do believe that in this instance, with the Doc staying away from Amy and Rory for long stretches of time, that he has simply been going around and erasing himself...it is really the simplest explanation, and fits with how the Moff works. Look at the exchange between River and the Doc again, keeping in mind how they flirt and wink and tease each other, he pretty much is telling her that he has been doing it . :P Count this as my HAT, hat number 1736465264627
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That doesn't explain it, actually. We know that after Mickey put the virus out, we still had at least Torchwood having files on him (Love and Monsters). UNIT also has files on him - Malcolm the scientific advisor in Planet of the Dead had read his files (though, to be fair, those could easily have been hard copy files), and UNIT has alerts for the Doctor and the like. I wouldn't be surprised if Tosh came up with an antivirus and let it out, to keep files on the Doctor from being continually wiped. That said, I can easily believe the Doctor is going around and wiping out mentions of himself from databases. He might have even come up with the idea from what Oswin did to the Daleks. On the other hand, whatever was controlling the TARDIS at the end of The Pandorica Opens and said Silence Will Fall might be behind the Doctor being removed from the database. It still hasn't really been established what/who was doing that, and it could be someone actually working against the Silence to cause their fall (flashback here to the scene with Dorium's head saying that Silence will have to fall when the Question is asked). The voice might be trying to get the Doctor to ask the question whereas the Silence are trying to prevent it, and wiping the Doctor from databanks would certainly help set up more people to ask Doctor Who? when the Doctor shows up.
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The show is so successful globally that I think it's time to cancel it and sack Steven Moffat before we even get to the anniversary of the show, which is obviously going to be a disaster based on all the reports we've been reading online. 'True' Doctor Who fans would agree with me. When you love something so much, you have to kill it. That's just how life is. Or, the BBC get Pepsi to sponsor the show and the Tardis can morph into a vending machine from which the Doctor always emerges holding a fizzy drink, Wayne's World style. That way we can keep the 50th anniversary shows, but they'll be a series of 5 minute ads promoting Pepsi instead.
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Sept. 26, 2012, 4:21 p.m. CST
Peter Jackson's not the only one who wants to direct Doctor Who
by DoctorTom
Looper director Rian Johnson wants to direct Who too. They wouldn't have to go to New Zealand to get him. (It's definitely worth going to NZ to get Peter Jackson to direct one though, especially since Neal Cross volunteered to write the episode for over there. Maybe we can get a season 8 chock full of big name guest directors. Maybe someone should ask Duncan Jones how he would feel about doing one. And maybe Guy Ritchie - Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels and Snatch showed him liking to jumping back and forth with the story, that might work well with a Moffat timey-wimey storyline.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/49394417@N08/8027824822/
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you could also show the TARDIS morphing into a Honda Acura with the Doctor driving it. Or some other car company, but product placement in Doctor Who would be much lower than product placement costs that they had for The Avengers.
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maybe we can get Matt Smith eating Bassett's licorice all-sorts as a product placement. Needless to say, this is all said in sarcasm mode, but I think it would be kind of funny to see the Doctor flogging the product of a company who got upset at Who in the 80's for borrowing their mascot for a story.
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~Ooooh - Let's see what's trending... Chav Caps. Chav Caps are Cool...~ FACEBOOK. IT KNOWS WHAT'S COOL.
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Sept. 26, 2012, 4:30 p.m. CST
Oh, and one other person to see if he'd be interested in directing Who
by DoctorTom
Terry Gilliam. For some reason, if he does a story I could see the Dream Lord being involved, and the visuals being much more bizarre than we normally get in Who.
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Sept. 26, 2012, 4:32 p.m. CST
... Or is that Twitter...? Too late for that; The Doctor already burnt that bridge...
by Perigee
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I wasn't specifically having a go at dj_bollocks, I was merely using his post to point out how silly some people on here are being regarding the anniversary next year, and the show in general. The show is doing great, the numbers are there for everyone to see. If you personally don't like the content of the show, there's really nothing that can be done about that. And if you're not happy about what's being planned for next year, you must be psychic, and not a very good one at that. Nothing has been officially announced yet, has it? Why whine about something that hasn't happened yet and you have no concrete information on? It defies belief! Sorry for being grumpy, but it had to be said. Night all.
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... I still love you and completely agree. We don't get told what's happening precisely for the reason why AoTD was so great... People can't help but spoil and we're all guilty of it. Even if there were 50 stories/episodes next year you'd have people complaining "Too much, quality control, wah wah wah..." I'm all for good criticism on the Docback but can't help but feel the past few weeks have got a lot whiney too... Be passionate sure, be critical why not, but enjoy it because god knows we are so lucky to have it back. This post was brought to you by our friends at B&Q purveyors of the finest sonic screwdrivers and by Moss Bros where bow ties (blue or red) are cool, and by Pedigree Chum don't feed your robot dog anything else...
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Sept. 26, 2012, 11:18 p.m. CST
Power of Three was RTD Who done right (no face palm moments!)
by sunspot_mike
I loved loved loved the Chicken Dance (Birdie song) joke and thought the character moments were pretty great, especially the Doctor and Amy stuff on the Thames. Plus, the Brig's daughter. 'Nuff said. The baddie was a little light and was defeated easily, so I hope we see more of them. I'm missing the story arc from last season which was some of my favorite Doctor Who stuff ever (I thought the cracks in the universe were a more exciting arc, but the Tesselecta ending was satisfying and not a cheat), so I was hoping for a little bit of more of the Silence Will Fall storyline, which seems like it's a Matt Smith-long arc (I love the Long Game). I guess we're getting it with the Doctor Who? stuff, but I want more Madame Kovarian and the war on the Doctor! But I always liked The X-Files' mythology episodes more than the standalones, so I'm a sucker for serialization.
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Sept. 26, 2012, 11:23 p.m. CST
Why all the bitching and worrying about Behind The Scenes stuff?
by sunspot_mike
I don't like to do too much theorizing about the 50th anniversary because I'd rather just be surprised and enjoy it (but of course, I'd love a multi-Doctor story to give Paul McGann and Colin Baker a chance to redeem themselves, but I know that's a pipe dream!) Moff's been honest about everything and you can tell he's doing his best. Studios are always about money, whether it's FOX or the Beeb, and he seems like he's fighting to make it a great experience for the fans. He's also living the dream because he's in charge of two of the UK's greatest heroes. The fact that we're getting this great stuff every year makes it a Golden Age of all the stuff that we love. Let's enjoy and support it. I've always heard that Whovians are the bitchiest, but I never quite believed it until last year when they split the series up. The hue and cry about that was almost as bad as the Packers fans here in Wisconsin about the refs on Monday (which was a bullshit call, yes, but it's still just a game!)
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Sept. 27, 2012, 3:05 a.m. CST
@man_of_vertue - As one of the silly people, let me clarify somethings...
by V'Shael
1) Never said the show isn't doing great. 2) Never said Moff needs to go. 3) While admitting I didn't care at all for thr first 3 episodes, I didn't moan and bitch about it. I just waited for an episode which I would enjoy, patiently, like any good fan would. I kept my displeasure mostly to myself, and didn't tell anyone else they were wrong for liking it. As for the actual contents of my posts, rebel_scums posts, etc.. about the 50th anniversary... well, let's just say you didn't actually address any of those. (ie. how the BBC still hasn't officially picked up the show for an 8th season, or how the shooting schedules are already making it look more than likely that the back episodes will be held till autumn 2013.) That is concrete info. The BBC commissioned season 7 in June the preceding year. Here we are in September, and there was no official word yet on season 8. I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that the 50th anniversary year would have been virtually empty, if the decision hadn't been made to hold over the second half of season 7 for broadcast. Which, by the way, is far more in line with the old BBC controller Danny Cohen's original statements, before everyone backtracked and said he was apparently a joker, so please don't believe what you heard with your own ears. Even if his stated reasons for the split (Sherlock) were wrong.
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I really only need to say 'ditto' to what v'shael said. I love the show, and it's undoubtedly more successful now than it's ever been I expect great things from Moffat because he's proven on more than one occasion that's he's capable of them. he's one of the most exciting writers working in television. But because I believe someone is capable of greatness, does not mean I think they are immune from less than stellar output as well. And as v'shael said, neither of us bitch and moan in an overly negative way, nor try to take away the enjoyment from those who have it. As I said in response to one of doctortoms posts, I would love to see the back8 show up in the first part of 2013, with a season 8 starting this autumn. That's a win for everyone all v'shael and I are saying is there is no evidence to indicate this will be the case, and a lot of things that point towards it not being so.
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Sept. 27, 2012, 6:06 a.m. CST
That's cool about Rian Johnston wanting to do an episode
by Rebel Scumb
Haven't seen Looper, but Brick was amazing, brother's bloom... not so much, but the effort was there.
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I was a bit worried at the start, a lot of talky scenes with the murderous CEO and cohort, but by episodes 2 and 3 it really picked up, and I've always loved stories about people being minaturized
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Sept. 27, 2012, 11:53 a.m. CST
Interesting note on Saturday's episode - BBC marketing tie-in
by DoctorTom
we see Amy reading a book written by Melody Malone (I think we can guess who that turns out to be). BBC Books is going to electronically release on Oct 4 a novella The Angel's Kiss, written ostensibly by Melody Malone but actually by Justin Richards.
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But I wonder if, while reading it, you'll get River's written ~Voice,~ or if it reads like it was written by someone else and just attributed -which, of course, it is. It's tricky to ape an author's style, unless it's outrageous, like Hunter Thompson or Frank Key, or well established, like Poe, Conan Doyle or Tolkien.
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Given that Melody Malone is a fictional author, there will be a bit of leeway. I imagine from the blurb given for it that it's going to be written in a hard boiled style. In a way it's a shame that Justin Richards decided to write it himself, as Terrance Dicks has written that style before (in the Bernice Summerfield New Adventure titled Mean Streets - it had an Ogron P.I. Now THAT I'd like to see in the new TV series!)
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Sept. 27, 2012, 2:40 p.m. CST
Bleeding Cool chiming in on what might happen this weekend
by DoctorTom
a lot of the suppositions sound like stuff we've already said http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/27/so-whats-happening-in-next-weeks-doctor-who-then/
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Sept. 27, 2012, 3:41 p.m. CST
Listen, don't mention the anniversary. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right.
by Stegman84
So, that's two split series, a budget cut, a change of producer, and four tardis talkbacks...
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Asylum of the Daleks - Rory picks up metallic balls that have fallen off old and damaged Daleks and refers to them as eggs. Also, the Daleks say "Eggs…Stir…Milk…Ate" "eggsstirmilkate…" "eggstirminate…" "Exterminate". Dinosaurs on a Spaceship - Dino eggs all over the ship. A Town Called Mercy - Jex's spacecraft is shaped like an egg. The Power of Three - At the end of the episode Steven Berkoff's head, who played the Shakri, was obviously very egg shaped. As well, Rory saying the cubes might be Alien eggs. The Angels Take Manhattan - TBD What's up with the egg references?
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It was Brian, not Rory who said that the cubes could be eggs, in his very thorough going over of the options. The eggs references are being put in there to drive internet traffic, to get people reacting and talking about them. At least, if I were actually doing standalone stories after a heavy arc season I'd be tempted to put in something just to see if people latch on to it. Then again, it could be symbolic for something about to be born (Oswin being hatched anew from the Dalek?), or maybe they're there so the Doctor can make puns off of hatching.
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...The Sun (of course) has your scoop here... I only post because it's somewhat Doctor WHo related... NSFW but you can probably tell from the well classy hyperlink... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/4560492/Doctor-Who-sidekick-Jenna-Louise-Coleman-bares-her-boobs.html
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would resolve into a QR code at some point. (I swear I said this out loud last Saturday; I just keep forgetting my keyboard can't hear me; better late than never, I suppose. . . ) Leading to some sort of easter egg. Probably about eggs! Or Christmas. But I'm pleased they didn't (that I know of); I'd rather pay attention to the story! I also thought they'd suck people through a somethingoranother to somewhere else when they started opening up after the tests, further playing upon humans' innate curiosity. But no. Why study humans so carefully just to kill them?? Is that a giant plot hole, or the basis of a whole 'nother story? Or do the Shakri just go back in time and sell the data to various 1960s baddies as a nice anniversary tie-in?
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I know we're a long time past the days Katie Manning shocked everyone by posing naked with a Dalek. But do we really expect negative fall out from this? It was a fellow BBC production. It can't have taken the BBC by surprise.
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Sept. 28, 2012, 8:52 a.m. CST
@pat - the way I figured it, the Shakri were so ancient ...
by veteran_of_mu
They had no idea what would do in humanity. So they had to test a lot of different possibilities. Shame that didn't make it into the exposition. A lot of shame about TPOT. Could have been good.
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