Movie News

Is BATTLE ANGEL ALITA Still Happening? Plus AVATAR 4 = Prequel?

Published at: Sept. 10, 2012, 12:08 p.m. CST

Nordling here.

As James Cameron prepares for AVATAR 2 and 3, discussions are already being made about Cameron's post-AVATAR life.  Cameron has said previously that after AVATAR he's probably done with narrative filmmaking, but according to Jon Landau, BATTLE ANGEL: ALITA is still on the schedule, according to Swedish film site MovieZine: "We focus on AVATAR for the next four or five years.  It will happen hopefully right after that."  Cameron has been interested in adapting the anime for years, and it's very possible that Cameron may not direct it but produce and hand the reins over to another filmmaker.  With all the technology that Cameron has helped make for AVATAR, I'd imagine that any adaptation of BATTLE ANGEL: ALITA would be visually stunning, but it's also likely years away.

But for now, it's all things AVATAR, and Cameron hasn't ruled out the possibility of a prequel to the whole story.  In an interview with MTV, Cameron stated that the plot would center on the world of Pandora many years before the events of the first movie, and what happened when humanity and Na'vi met:

"I have an idea for a fourth. I haven't really put pen to paper on it, but basically it goes back to the early expeditions of Pandora, and kind of what went wrong with the humans and the Na'vi and what that was like to be an explorer and living in that world... Because when we drop in, even in the first film in AVATAR 1, as it will be known in the future, we're dropping into a process that's 35 years in to a whole colonization.  That will complete an arc and if that leads into more, we'll start, not imitating STAR WARS, but it's a logical thing to do because we'll have completed the thematic arc by the end of three. The only thing left to do is go back to see what it was like on those first expeditions and create some new characters that then become legacy characters in later films. It's a plan."

As we all know, prequels are not always successful because we know what happens next, taking the suspense and uncertainty out of the equation.  And it's very far away at this point - Cameron is in the early stages of pre-production on AVATAR 2 and 3, so it's definitely not primary in his mind right now.  I'm curious to see where the franchise goes myself.  What do you think?

Nordling, out.  Follow me on Twitter!

Readers Talkback

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  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Please.....no more Avatar!!

    by txubill

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:12 p.m. CST

    The first one was cool........

    by txubill

    but I'm afraid 2 and 3 will die like the Matrix did.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:14 p.m. CST

    this is great news for Avatar fans!

    by greased_up_saxplayer

    not for me, however.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:16 p.m. CST

    Bloom County pegged it about right in 1983...(LINK)

    by obijuanmartinez

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kFkMfK6z4EM/R7n66b9plQI/AAAAAAAACBU/NhW07OPFHRc/s400/bloom+county+star+wars-728905.JPG So we get to wait through another 5 years of Blue Jar-Jar Binkses before STARTING Alita??? Argh!

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:17 p.m. CST

    For fucks sake! STOP WITH THE AVATAR SEQUELS/PREQUELS

    by Judge Briggs

    Cameron, c'mon! We want something else... you ain't gettign younger! NO MORE AVATARS! Wish he coulda went all Avatar on the Terminator franchise instead ... give us a future war ... drooolll.... LV_426 knows how to draw out the fan boy's wish of a Cameron future war-esque vision/movie. Instead we're getting more sequels to a movie nobody really wants.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Prequels are not successful because we know what happens??

    by theheavy

    Kinda like we all knew the Titanic sinks??..If anybody could ,.that guy could

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:22 p.m. CST

    I would love to see Battle Angel

    by Randy

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Please no more Avatar

    by quicksilver80

    Stop it Jim, I liked Avatar, but you ain't got a Star Wars on your hands...it's time to move on

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Avatarz

    by Dale

    I like the Avatar franchise a lot. I think it would be pretty cool watching people land on a new planet. And watch them go from being the Navi's friend to their enemy. I am sure they had to be buddies to survive those first few years. Sort of like how America was colonized. All the amazing things that you would see would be worth the price of admission.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Avatar 2

    by Cody Willoughby

    should be the only movie Cameron ought to be planning. There's a huge overestimation happening regarding the public hunger for this franchise. I haven't had a single conversation with anyone in three whole years who actively anticipates a sequel. I sure don't. I was sick of the Avatar universe about two-thirds of the way through the first film. Take these things one at a time - they're too expensive to risk otherwise.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:23 p.m. CST

    You should be doing Aliens: Colonial Marines Jim!

    by quicksilver80

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Ava2ar Av3tar 4vatar Av0tar

    by ChiefChirpa3000

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Make as many Avatar films as possible, Iron Jim!

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    May they all gross $3 billion dollars each and continue to infuriate the haters! Their cries of despair are sweet music to my ears.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:27 p.m. CST

    best new I've read since...

    by Richard

    I read the same thing yesterday on Empire.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:29 p.m. CST

    2129: Conquest of Pandora

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    That's what this prequels sounds like....which is a terrific premise in fact.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:29 p.m. CST

    So, when are they going to start production on Avatar 2 & 3?

    by Mr. Pricklepants

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:31 p.m. CST

    'Avatar 2: Judgment Day'...

    by Darkness

    I can understand the need to expand on the Avatar universe - and, that Fox would like another bite of the cherry - but, seeing as the first one never really had an engaging or original story, i just can't see the possible allure of a 'Trilogy'. Unless Cameron can create another technological marvel, or an interesting narrative to utilise this vision i.e, "T2", then this venture could turn into a repetitive, calamitous affair. These could be his "Matrix Revolutions" or "The Phantom Menace". I'd rather see "Battle Angel". But this is commerce over creativity, and Cameron has to please the money men.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:33 p.m. CST

    Actually, that's 2119

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    because it's 35 years before. Featuring Gerard Depardieu as Christopher Columbus XXXIV, and Rob Schneider as Roger the Cabin Boy.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:34 p.m. CST

    You got to give AICN's 'reporters' credit

    by DVaderRIP

    I wish I could just sit on my arse all day, plagiarize news from other, better sites (in this case, Empire) and somehow make a good living at it. I take my cap off to you people.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:35 p.m. CST

    Cameron did something nearly NOBODY achieved for last 30 years

    by quintana007

    he gave the power of movies back to REGULAR people. not freaks not geeks not nerds - everyday people

  • ...I'm waiting for the industry to answer one specific question: what are reasonable expectations for a sequel to the highest-grossing film ever made?

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:42 p.m. CST

    Why does Cameron have such a hard on for these films?

    by kindofabigdeal

    CananiggagetaTerminatorsequel? It could be a prequel of sorts. We have to see how the future war ends with Kyle and the first Arnold getting sent back in time. Pick up where Salvation left off, focus on John and Kyle father/son dynamic. Show us the laser weapons we miss so much. It can be way better than Dances with Smurfs 2: Pandora Boogaloo.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:42 p.m. CST

    90% of the public interest and box office for #1 was the 3D

    by ShiftyEyedDog

    There had been no major movie done like that at that level and it made huge $$ out of curiosity. the $$ was not a result of people loving it or craving more.

  • WTF?

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:47 p.m. CST

    There is also Titanic 2: Pandora.

    by Jason

  • Arnie, God bless him, can go do his own thing. Or make him the leader of the Earth government that we see in a brief cameo. And that said I suppose Jenette Goldstein HAS to show up somewhere too...she can be a scientist.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:51 p.m. CST

    My wife and the general publics thoughts on Avatar:

    by JP

    Is that the movie with the blue people?

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:53 p.m. CST

    We need Lance Henriksen and Wild Bill Paxton in the sequels also

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    Henriksen can be the first guy who ever had an Avatar body made for him twenty years ago, and is now some half-insane, schizophrenic old kook due to too much time spent in the untested body. Paxton can play a wise-cracking Na'vi soothsayer who is a member of some sort of rogue clan who sit in the forest and eat hallucinogens from the magic tree all day, in order to receive portentous religious visions. Tom Arnold can play himself in a cameo appearance, wearing a T-Shirt that says: "I''m desperate for work and still waiting for True Lies 2, Jim!!"

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 12:55 p.m. CST

    o

    by MrWug

  • Anybody seen Pocahontas 2? Did Fern Gully have sequels? I know Dances with Wolves didn't.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1 p.m. CST

    I'd much rather see BA:A than another Avatard

    by Steve Lamarre

    But whatever. Cameron tends to obsess on a certain theme or subject for a number of years. This is what he does. He needs to see this through to the end and I'm sure more Avatar movies will be amazing. But Battle Angel: Alita is what I really look forward to.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1 p.m. CST

    The world at large cannot wait for these films; geeks just want endless Terminator sequels from Cameron

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    Well, ok, it's technically amazing, but its going to be the biggest flop ever

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:01 p.m. CST

    How the hell did Avatar make it to the #1 movie of all time?

    by Mugato5150

    I understand inflation and the increased 3D prices but still, WTF?

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:02 p.m. CST

    WTF? Why bother posting anything here?

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    When your entire comment gets deleted due to an antiquated forum format.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Actually, there was 'FernGully 2: The Magical Rescue'...

    by Bill C.

    ...which dealt with poachers, AIUI. I suppose, transposing that to Pandora, we'd get something vaguely more 'Robocop 3'-esque: bounty hunters or mercenaries specifically out to kill Na'vi in order to clear the way for the original objective of mining unobtainium. Fuck it. Get Jonathan Banks in this shit. I'll be there.

  • And why shouldn't he Avatar was already imitating 50 billion other movies that had already been done. Look just give us Battle Angel Alita no one wants to see 50 Avatars!

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:11 p.m. CST

    AVATAR IS A FUCKING PILE OF FUCKASS SHIT

    by poop

    The CG was heinous. The design was ass. Fuck this shit. No one cares. NO ONE WANTS MORE AVATAR.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:13 p.m. CST

    To whit:

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    First Avatar trailer is released. Haters snort that Avatar looks like a cartoon. Avatar Day comes and goes. Haters concede that the film is technically amazing but crow that it will still be the biggest flop EVAH. Avatar is released. It goes on to become the biggest grossing film of all time. Haters whine that people only went because of the 3D. Avatar is released on 2D Blu-Ray and goes on to become the biggest selling Blu-ray ever. Haters gripe that Avatar was a success, but try to argue that there is no demand for the sequels and that nobody wants them. Avatar's sequels are released and are once again embraced by a mass audience; each successive one breaks box office records worldwide and vaults the franchise to even greater levels of popularity (I'm calling it now). See the pattern here? Psychologists will would have a field day with the level of denial displayed by these haters.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:17 p.m. CST

    I appreciate people love Avatar, but for me...

    by DrMurdock

    ...it was an empty story that went on for too damn long, could have easily have been 45 mins shorter than it was. I don't need to see a tree getting blown up for over 5 minutes. I miss old Cameron, I hated Titanic too. The prospect of him making another 3 of these (or more) saddens me to be honest, I'd love to see more varied work from Cameron but it doesn't look like that's going to be the case anytime soon. But as I say, I'm not knocking anyone who does like it, different strokes and all that, we all have our own tastes. On the subject of Battle Angel Alita, I was stoked that Cameron was gearing up for making this. Well I WAS stoked, years ago, does anyone really give a shit anymore?

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Original stories

    by fumbles

    If you're still searching for an original story idea I hate to break it to you but it ain't going to happen. Everything has been said and told in one form or another, the only thing left is to find a new and interesting way of telling said story. James Cameron may not be original but he's one hell of a storyteller and I thought Avatar was entertaining as all hell.

  • You sound like a goddamn fucktard shitbag idiot MAURY guest when you say the word 'Haters'. You don't know me! I do what I want! Y'all a bunch of HAYTAHHHS!!! That is what you sound like. SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH 'HATERS'.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:22 p.m. CST

    Never thought I'd be clapping for a turd, but there you go.

    by Bill C.

    I'm not going to take the bet that AV-2/3 will break THAT RECORD, but unless Cameron develops a drug habit of no small degree between now and 2014 they'll assuredly be ridiculously successful films. And people will indeed rail against them with all the fury of heaven, while things like 'Ninja Turtles' and 'A Star Is Born' sneak past taking advantage of the distraction...

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:23 p.m. CST

    The plot to Avatar 2:The Magical Rescue

    by Charlie_Allnut

    The Na'vi of Pandora must venture outside the rain forest to rescue several young Na'vi who were captured by the evil humans.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:24 p.m. CST

    The plot to Avatar 3: Pandora: WaterPlanet

    by Charlie_Allnut

    Due to the evil human’s space ships not being carbon neutral, Pandora’s polar ice caps have melted and most of Pandora is underwater, Sully fights starvation and outlaw “smokers,” and reluctantly helps a female Na'vi and her young daughter try to find dry land. Awesome!

  • Get over yourselves. Yeah, we GET it, the story has been iterated a few times. So the fuck WHAT? You act as if just about ANY story couldn't be compared to an earlier variant on the same theme. Little secret for you: psssst....come closer...yeah, right there....*every story has already been done or at least has parallels to other earlier stories...it is only a matter of doing it your own way* And last I checked, you butt-hurt little assholes, Dances with Wolves and Pocahontas DIDNT TAKE PLACE ON AN ALIEN PLANET POPULATED BY GIANT BLUE PEOPLE. There's a REASON this kind of story has been told time and time again - because it RESONATES with people - it is the STORY of human history, in many ways - this is EXACTLY what we have done when we came into a new land replete with resources - regardless of culture or country, this is what people DO. The rape and pillage of an untouched, bountiful world and the subjugation of an entire people IS a story worth telling more than once in more than one way. Quit your bitching. Please. Unless you're going to contribute something more relevant to the cinemas anytime soon. Just shut. the fuck. up.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Navii Cyborgs- Half Navii / Half Machine

    by ass clown

    At least Navii Cyborgs would be interesting.aybe Cameron will focus these movies on climate change or some kind of nuclear war stand off. Cameron plays these movies to a world audience and likes to use political themes in his movies. Just you wait

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:32 p.m. CST

    JC..want to make multiple Avatar stories???

    by allouttabubblegum

    Then go make them as novels. We dont need any more Avatar movies.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Dude fuck Avatar

    by Superturd

    Okay, fine, I'll relent that it wasn't as bad as it first seemed after all the bogus hype. But 2 and 3? Seriously? Are we going to pretend to care about massive sequels to this movie, starring these characters on Pandora?? Let alone a fucking prequel with "legacy characters"? Who the fuck actually thinks this ground is ripe for storytelling? I watch True Lies and get depressed that Cameron, to put it crudely, lost his balls and got paid through the fucking nose for it.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:43 p.m. CST

    just give me a TRUE LIES sequel..

    by Robert Evans

    Arnold can be running the agency now (like Chuck Heston was) and his daughter Eliza Dushku and be kicking ass all over the world. sold.

  • Honestly, how many normal joes would remember who the blue people were? For as much money as its made, it's seriously inching toward mediocrity. Aside from the technology, there is nothing memorable or iconic about the flick, not in the same sense that ALIENS, T2 and even to a lesser extent TRUE LIES have become...

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:50 p.m. CST

    I want my future war Terminator movies!

    by Judge Briggs

    Or Aliens on planet earth. NOT more boring ass Avatar movies.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Cameron became persona non grata to the geeks because he dared to make films

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    that looked beyond the scope of R-rated genre fare appealing mainly to male nerds, and made movies that appealed to a mass, cross-demographical, cultural and generational audience instead (and one was an historical romance and appealed to females - a double sin on top of all that!). This just amply demonstrates how shallow most 'geeks' actually are, living up to all their worst stereotypes. They would rather Cameron churn out endless Terminator sequels over and over gain, or True Lies 2, or Alien 5, or some other dead crap that's been ran repeatedly into the ground, for their selfish pleasure. Thankfully Cameron has gone beyond that. A man with true balls is someone who does what HE wants to do, everybody else be damned. Cameron's testicular fortitude is larger than ever and I salute him!

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:51 p.m. CST

    And anything more with Sam (Not so) Worthington

    by Dan

    would be akin to being bored to death. A terrible, dull actor that got very lucky.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:53 p.m. CST

    I'm not going to say the movie stinks, but...

    by Dan

    when I pop in a Cameron flick, THIS ONE AINT IT!

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST

    @turd_is_floating_underneath_the_gravy

    by Judge Briggs

    Umm ... no. More like those franchises (True Lies, Aliens, and Terminator) could have gone further as they have/had potential. With Cameron at the helm, they could have been amazing. Instead, he's churning out sequels that by and large, geeks do not want.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2 p.m. CST

    Saw Avatar once and have no desire to see it again. Epic meh.

    by Quake II

    Hard to believe that Avatar made the money it did. I don't know anyone who talks about this film or even owns it on Blu. My friends are all film fans/geeks and Avatar has never been brought up. It's the creation of an amazing saleman (Cameron) selling a product he convinces eveyone that they can't live without, but when you get home you wonder how you were ever convinced to buy it in the first place. I would rather watch Fantastic 4 again over Avatar.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:01 p.m. CST

    There was a sequel to DANCES WITH WOLVES

    by godoffireinhell

    ...it just never got filmed. Michael Blake, who wrote DANCES WITH WOLVES in 1988, had his sequel novel, titled THE HOLY ROAD, published in 2001. There were some half-hearted attempts to get a movie sequel off the ground but it never happened. According to Wikipedia, the plot "picks up eleven years after Dances with Wolves. John Dunbar is still married to Stands with a Fist and they have three children. Stands with a Fist and one of the children are kidnapped by a party of white rangers and Dances with Wolves must mount a rescue mission."

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Avatar is so forgettable that whenever an article is posted about it

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    it runs up hundreds of posts with people complaining about it. Avatar certainly doesn't inspire indifference. As Oscar Wilde said : it's better to be talked about than not talked about at all. Also, anyone who thinks the general public barely remember this movie must be living in la la land. Avatar is MANY times more popular than Terminator or the Alien films EVER were. Geeks live in a bubble when it comes to this sort of stuff, so they really have no idea. There are a shitload of people who have never seen those films, especially women or people in foreign countries, but if you ask around, they have ALL seen Titanic or Avatar. That's not to say Aliens or Terminator are inferior or superior or any other qualitative judgment, or that most people haven't at least heard of them to some extent, but Avatar is more popular with non-nerds and them's the facts once you get down to brass tacks.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:06 p.m. CST

    @godoffireinhell: Im actually glad that never happened.

    by Playkins

    Sounds like a VERY weak sequel to (IMHO) a very good film.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Someone, please make him stop!

    by Colin Dent

    If he's that sure he's done with narrative filmmaking, why doesn't he just stop fucking now? This guy's ego is going to lead to some studio going to the wall. He's all about the numbers now. the last thing he did that merited geek attention was 'True Lies,' a Bond movie at a time when they weren't making Bonds. Both 'Titanic' and 'Avatar' were pandering dross, and I've watched enough 'rusty hull' footage to last a fucking lifetime. (Rusty Hull would be a good stuntman OR pornstar name.) When you think that he made 'Aliens' for under $20m, 'Avatar' cost more than ten times that, and it reeked. Derivative shite, polished up in sparkly 3D. I loved Cameron's early stuff, but his films now are all about the big numbers, all age groups welcome, sterile, no-brained cackfests. They'll make these films, but I'll not be watching them.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:13 p.m. CST

    @quake ii: If you can't be even SOMEWHAT impressed by Avatar...

    by Playkins

    ...you really need to stop seeing films, brother. Now, I didn't think it was a masterpiece, but at the very least it paved some new ground and did some fresh things. Yes, we all know it was more or less the same story as DWW and Ferngully (and even Pocahantas incidentally), but its hardly the only derivative work of fiction out there. Stop being an armchair filmmaker for a second and let yourself enjoy something without dissecting every nuance. You'll be a happier person for it.

  • it have been had Cameron added alien to the avatar universe instead of that Prometheus fuck in the face?

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:15 p.m. CST

    I dunno. Probably terrible as well.

    by UltraTron

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:16 p.m. CST

    ya people know Avatar..

    by greased_up_saxplayer

    and they also know Justin beiber. Don't really give a shit about that. It's what we like, ya us geeks. like someone posted earlier, when i throw on a Cameron film, it sure as hell isn't Avatar. Avatar is plain white bread, 'sci-fi fantasy' for the masses. Cameron makes films he wants to make, old people like these films, why? cause Cameron is an old man now and his badass days are over. remember when Arnie punched through that guys' stomach at the beginning of Terminator? i miss that Cameron.

  • Avengers = transformers 3 with portal opening and trashy aliens meant for combustion against the strength of the superheroes. Not to mention they look like the mummy guards from mummy 2. But dont worry to the fanboys thats not derivative at all. Because all they care about is militirized organizations succeeding, and fruity spandex wearing wierdo's beating up ppl. When the avengers box office was announced they were ecstatic, their chubby red cheeks characteristic of fat baby booming nerds who converted their chairs into toilets so they wouldnt have to move their fat asses lighted up. Their "lairs" as they call them filled with toys, that do nothing but fill landfills overflowed with even more trash, now having to contend with wives who dont understand their stupid obsession. No these piggish clowns dont mind being marketed endless crap directly to the brain. But an environmental message. Well thats just too "ham-fisted" according to them. This little cult of murderservative nazi conservacocksuckers who wants JC to do more varied things, then asks for a return to the terminator and alien franchise just shows how absurd and stupid they really are. James grew up, smthg these ppl dont understand. He moved on. This is close to his heart being someone who practically lives in the sea. And it's too bad your so called apolitical bs which is really to the right no matter how much you lie to everyone refuses to see. You can forget it, if you think a superhero movie will ever beat avatar, as well as your belief that there is no demand for these films. There is no way that anyone wants to revisit terminator except for a small sect like the one on this site. Ps. Only a cameron can kill a cameron.

  • Even the effects are pretty weak in a lot of parts. I actually dig your idea for a sequel, but I'd rather have another Aliens film.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:18 p.m. CST

    judge briggs, and there were reasons those sequels never came to pass

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    most of which had little to do with circumstances under Cameron's control anyway. Would I have liked to have seen them? Sure - still would, in fact. But certainly not over the Avatar universe and all its potential for world building - not at this point. Cameron is nearly sixty years old, and is much too ambitious and talented to be bogged down or limited to sequels in franchises that he doesn't own and that have already been ruined (in Alien and Terminator's case), or are fun but utterly throwaway (True Lies). As for the Avatar sequels being unwanted by geeks on the whole - speak for yourself. I know plenty of geek folk who want them. And, as I said, the geek audience is a drop in the ocean compared to Joe Public, who will be VERY interested in these movies once they drop. Anybody who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves and is in for a very rude awakening come December 2015 or whenever Avatar 2 comes out.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:19 p.m. CST

    sorry for double post

    by sagamanus

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:20 p.m. CST

    I want an amp suit!

    by UltraTron

  • The plot of 'The Return of a Man Called Horse' probably answers that question.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:24 p.m. CST

    This made me enthusiastic about the sequels

    by cgih8r

    My hype level for these next movies used to be ZERO. Because what's the point of continuing a story after the humans have left? It would just be a giant PIXAR movie with nothing but the Ferngully characters. What made Avatar cool (for me) was the human technology and vehicles and all that stuff being placed in that world, it also looked the most convincing. The fact that Cameron is going back to the early days of exploration makes it waaay more exciting because we'll get to see new machines, new vehicles, new weapons and it will add whole new sense of adventure. I wouldn't be surprised if we get to see that elder Navi guy who was the first to tame one of those giant Banshees. Bring it on Cameron, all of us here including the haters will be sitting in the movie theater.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:28 p.m. CST

    sagamanus, you tell 'em, dude

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    I guess endless generic superhero flicks is all certain 'geeks' of this generation want. Cameron is the only guy keeping alive the flame of the golden age of genre filmmaking of the late 70's, 80's and early 90's, when people like Spielberg, Lucas, Scott, and himself were pursuing personal and singular visions instead of licensed properties.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:31 p.m. CST

    True Lies 2 can still be made, with Cameron producing and co-writing

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    Get Kathryn Bigelow to direct it. Tom Arnold really needs the work.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Oh, and they should get Clint Eastwood to do the cameo this time as the new head of Omega Sector

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    And Eliza Dushku to do the striptease this time - in 3D of course.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Prequels are stupid, and it's not because we know what will happen.

    by hank henshaw

    The real reason prequels are stupid is because 9 out of 10 times the filmmakers choose the worst ideas to tell these "stories set in the past", just to surprise audiences. Plus, they always just HAVE to include many nods, winks and nudges to the following (chronologically) movies, so that moviegoers can go: "oh, yeah, just like in that other movie! nyuk, nyuk". Most of the time these nods come off as forced.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Avatar was all right, but I'm not interested in any sequels

    by quicksilver80

    The thing is, for me at least, this movie doesn't have any memorable characters...save that Quidditch guy

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 3:06 p.m. CST

    What fanboys really want!

    by sagamanus

    I remember reading an article a long way back in FILM COMMENT magazine on the origins of everything in the star wars universe. How it mined all the history of pop culture design, comics, serial films and Lucas's surroundings. I cant remember the tone of the article though, if it implied he was stealing or not, but to me I would never even consider such an implication. I consider it more like salvaging forgotten worlds that need someone to remember them to return to existence. It all congealed into smthg new that gave us star wars. Avatar did the same thing. Giant blue ppl with tendrils that let them interact with an essentially sentient ecology mimicking a biointernet. Have we seen this before . GOD DAMN NEVER! Did the fanboy elite who never stop decrying that we should see science fiction films and superhero films so they will continue to make more, burgeoning more series from sci fi history appreciate the existence of this film. Nooooooo they did not. Instead they ask that cameron make more terminator or alien films. That he relives a past going back in time to feed their vampire appetites. That they also ask for a starship trooper remake. Where their demands are more destruction wrought on alien races, more innovative weapons and stylized violence. I have said this before and I will never stop saying it. Had cameron made the navi bloodthirsty vampires mindlessly bent on exterminating humans they would be sucking his cock for eternity. Instead we get a complete flip where hollywood always caters to white males as the good guys. Cameron dares to make them villans here, as well as the military. And they cant take it. One film out of the innumerable flotsam that has aliens invading earth, here humans invading an alien world and they lambaste it as unoriginal.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 3:07 p.m. CST

    IT WILL BE IN 6D!

    by Simpsonian

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Everytime I fly, Avatar is always playing.

    by JP

    I tried to watch it just to kill time, but my God, the in-flight magazines are more interesting. And geeks don't hate Avatar, they just want a brilliant filmmaker to make better use of his last remaining years on this Earth.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 3:19 p.m. CST

    @ alakazam Better use? Like what?

    by sagamanus

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 3:22 p.m. CST

    I will never understand

    by disfigurehead

    why AVATARD made 2 billion world wide. It's good but not that good to warrant 6 sequels and 4 prequels. Overrated dog shit.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 3:25 p.m. CST

    Saw Avatar once...once. I liked it but, yeah...once.

    by The_All_Dead

    It'll make money for sure but once they all see that the "curiosity" factor doesn't apply anymore and it makes well below BILLIONS of dollars they'll stop this nonsense

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Oh no, not more...

    by GuyFawkes

    Cameron is way overrated. Titanic was dull drivel, there are much better Titanic movies out there. Dances with Smurfs, oops, Avatar, was a mess. The bland predictable story, poor acting, and some nice CGI. Why his movies make so much money I have no idea....

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 3:30 p.m. CST

    If Avatar 2 doesn't make 3bn

    by MustGoFaster

    I expect Cameron to do a "Tony Scott". His ego just won't be able to handle it.

  • pointless!

  • And i really did enjoy Avatar its just that.....well, that'll do pig,that'll do. get what im sayin?

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 3:39 p.m. CST

    The plot thickens

    by albert comin

  • Which I find REALLY dated now.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Why did Avatar make $2B+ World Wide?

    by conspiracy

    Because people Love AppleBee's and McDonalds. Because they think their vote actually matters and politicians care about them. Because they still clamor to organized religion. Because they don't have time to crack a book and better themselves, but will watch 6 hours of Football every single weekend religiously. Because people are still enamored with Bright Shiny objects like a newborn in a crib. It wasn't a good film, it was a derivative film dressed up in the flashiest way possible...which is all most people want out of their entertainment. Easy to Digest and pretty=Box Office Magic. If JC had shown the Blue Bitches Tits he could have banked another solid $200M.

  • I remember around Shrek 2 or 3, Jeffrey said they were going to make 5 Shrek films, with the 5th one telling just how Shrek ended up in the swamp. Of course, we never got the 5th film, and I think they compromised and just threw the origins into the Broadway musical of 'Shrek.' I guess I feel about Avatar the way some feel about PIXAR's Cars - 'Is there enough fandom to justify more movies?'

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 4:23 p.m. CST

    I love every Cameron picture unabashedly

    by Monnie Knapp

    T2 is lower on my list than Titanic and Avatar, but that's just like... my opinion man.

  • That's like saying biopics are boring because we know how it ends. Or how historical dramas like Titanic are boring because we know how it ends. Clone Wars the series has some fantastic storytelling, yet its a prequel, yet we know how the main story still ends. Like I said, getting sick of this idea that prequels can't be successful bc we know the end game. Its about storytelling people, NOT the end.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 4:32 p.m. CST

    look at how bad that poster was...i'd almost forgotten.

    by zom-bot.com

    i'm not interested in another avatar movie, let alone multiples. i'm only curious to see what other tired old morality plays he upcycles to be the plots of the rest. he should really do something new..keep making new worlds..i just don't see anything else interesting coming from that planet of blue native americans....it's not alien enough to do anything crazy with- they've already established it...

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Cameron contemplating PREQUEL?! BWAHAHAHAHA

    by sansara07

    This folks is cast iron proof that Jimmy boy hasn't an original fart left in his stink bomb factory. "Not to imitate Star Wars"?! Give it up, Jimbo. That's EXACTLY what you're doing. The glaring difference being that "Avatar 1" was a cat turd compared to A New Hope and there is no way in the multiverse that Avatar 2 will hold a candle to Empire, and Return of the Jedi will probably shit all over Avatar 3. So the only thing left for Jimmy to salvage is whether his Avatar prequel will be better than Phantom Menace. Well, here's an idea Jimbot. Jar Jar Binks having a smackdown with a retarded Navi!!! Problem is...ALL the Navi are retarded! All Jar Jar need do is jump on a big red dragon and he'll be their new king!!! Jar Jar outsmarts the Navi!!! BWAHAHAHA

  • A true Cameron fan would realise there's nothing in Avatar to match the relentless storytelling skill of Terminator, the intensity of Aliens, the emotional impact of The Abyss, the non-stop action of T2, the epic romance of Titanic or even the humour of True Lies. It's just a completely forgettable, humourless and characterless film saved by its amazing 3D visuals and some nifty action. Being aimed at the widest possible audience doesn't make it a masterpiece. Avengers was aimed at a huge audience, too, but it still had some personality thanks to Whedon's writing. Avatar's still a million times better than a Michael Bay movie, though.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 4:37 p.m. CST

    "A true Cameron fan would realise there's blah blah blah..."

    by D.Vader

    Take that divisive kind of bullshit somewhere else. Cameron fans don't need "relentless storytelling skill" to enjoy one of his movies.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 4:40 p.m. CST

    "There's no apatite for these... SERIOUSLY, JIM?"

    by D.Vader

    If you truly believe there's no appetite for these sequels, then reality said bye bye to you a long time ago.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 4:41 p.m. CST

    what star wars has over avatar is a universe of races and characters

    by zom-bot.com

    avatar will only ever give us blue people, humans and exotic beasties. if they DO manage to go off planet and deal with other worlds and races in upcoming prequels, will Pandora still be the focus? will it still be called avatar if avatars are not used or the focus? one thing that always bugged me that avatar lovers cannot defend or explain and get mad trying is- when he was IN his blue avatar, he was constantly having to fend off the attacks of predatory animals. yet how many times was he unplugged and his avatar was sleeping in the jungle alone and was never fucking eaten by anything?

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 4:44 p.m. CST

    "relentless storytelling skill"LOL Say what!?

    by sagamanus

    I'm surprised they are staying away from the Harlan Ellison controversy regarding terminator. Oh but we are talking about avatar here and wouldnt want to ruin their universe since they cal avatar derivitive.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Zombot that's an easy response- Once

    by D.Vader

    Only once. Only once did we see him fall asleep somewhere outside the protection of others- but that one time was near a sacred tree where the creatures probably don't go near. Every other time he was unplugged he was protected by other Navi.

  • Each viewing only makes the movie's flaws more evident. Truly the best way to appreciate it is to only see it once. That way you can retain the sense of wonder it causes and leave with an happy memory. Futher viewings only ruin the fun, because the movie does itself no favours. It's problems and flaws are so evident when the effect of suprise is out.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 4:49 p.m. CST

    avatar was fine and all but 4 of them?

    by nametaken

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 4:50 p.m. CST

    What is a true Cameron fan, anyway?

    by albert comin

    Is it one who can see the flaws in his movies despite loving some of his past movies? Or a relentless fanboy who sees no wrong with anything he does?

  • When you compare him to the charisma black hole that is Sam Worthington . . .

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:10 p.m. CST

    The best part of Avatar

    by t

    The opening shots of the spaceship arriving, the crew getting out of their cryo pods and the flight over the compound. I loved that As soon as the main character got off the ship and the spoke the film went down hill.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:16 p.m. CST

    @Mr charliechaplinfilmsin3d

    by albert comin

    I have a similiar opinion to you. For me, Avatar is great until the first Na'vi shows up. From then one, it's all downhill. I could had watched a 3 hours long Avatar movie about the future Earth depicted in the delected scenes, the space stuff, the arrival and the human personal working on Pandora. Me, i would had made the Na'vis a distant people that humans no longer have direct contact , only seen from afar at best. I guess my version would be a bit closer to "Solaris" and would fail miserably at the box office, so stupid silly romance and "i see you" melodramatic bullshit to make the teenage girls go moist in their panties about the movie.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Avatar is a masterpiece of Technique overshadowing Story.

    by albert comin

    The Technique is brillant, but the Story is quite ass.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:21 p.m. CST

    4 of these Avatar movies is way too much. Two is more than enough.

    by happybunni

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:24 p.m. CST

    ^ sure. force people to compete on story alone.

    by nametaken

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Rashomon you hit the nail on the head. Exactly.

    by sagamanus

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:35 p.m. CST

    My God, rashomon

    by Mugato5150

    That sounds horrible. Please tell me you're just fucking around and humanity isn't really like that.

  • I mean, damn--why is it that, say, 'Breaking Dawn, Part 1' or 'Battleship' gets the usual well-this-sucks level of hate, but this gets a level of full-on, if-you-support-this-you-hate-humanity, flames-on-the-side-of-my-face, blinding hatred perhaps only matched by that for the Cameron film that immediately preceded it? Is it its, for lack of a better word, omnipresence? (Obligatory flames on the side of my face: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92IkddsjtAA )

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:40 p.m. CST

    rashomon, Avatar certainly WAS escapism...

    by sansara07

    For people with an IQ below 50. ZING!

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Lol, sansara07 is back

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    How we missed ye.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:50 p.m. CST

    quintana007.. what?

    by MurderMostFowl

    I love JC but what are you talking about ? I would say about 90 percent of Hollywood films are for "the people". it is those people that brought you fast and furious and stuff up dance bull shit. Cameron knows how to tell a good story, and I respect that...but he didn't get there by being a producer for the people. he got there by sticking to his own guns about storytelling.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:53 p.m. CST

    I don't want to out anyone or start anything, but...

    by adeceasedfan

    I find it funny that someone can dump all over Avatar, yet praise the Star Wars prequels to the high heavens. My personal TRUTHFUL opinion (huge Cameron fan btw) on Avatar is this. I enjoyed it once in the theater. I wasn't blown away, but had also hyped myself for the 3D which was dim. Boo. I bought the fancy blu-ray when it came out. Watched 30 minutes, turned it off and haven't put it in since. That being said I don't hate Avatar, but can't say I'm that excited either.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 5:55 p.m. CST

    But let me say this: rashomon and sagamanus are absolutely correct

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    Nearly all Avatar haters have indeed been revealed to be rabid right-wing psychotics, despite their protestations to the contrary. It just takes a little digging, and a little needling, to uncover the truth. These types loathe the messages the film imparts because it forces them to confront their own vile and selfish natures. The most persistent Avatar haters are akin to global warming deniers, ie. raving, irrational idiots who need to be ignored, lest they lower the collective IQ of humanity by the sheer mind-numbing force of their own stupidity.

  • That being said the right wing feels like they lost hollywood and should own it. And avatar makes them go nuts like nothing I've seen before.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 6:27 p.m. CST

    darthflagg, you do not speak for 'true' Cameron fans

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    I've been a fan of Cameron since the late eighties, so I'm about as 'true' a fan as it gets (without degenerating into idol-worshipping nonsense). True Cameron fans are fan of JAMES CAMERON, or more particularly, his aesthetic filmmaking style, the work ethic and innovation he brings to his films, the themes he constantly circles in his work, etc. What they are NOT, however, are merely fanboys of the Terminator films or Aliens or R-rated action films, as you appear to be. That's an entirely different thing, and its a point which crops up with supposed 'fans' of many artists, in all sorts of fields, when the artist moves on to do something that interests them personally, but the 'fan' doesn't like. So the 'fan' blubs about how they are 'sell-outs' or that the new work has nothing to do with the old (in defiance of any kind of reasoned analysis), simply because they did not like the new work. A true Cameron would have been excited when Cameron did Titanic, for instance, since his style is all over that film, even as he moved from his usual sci-fi fare into a completely different arena (yeah, you mentioned Titanic; I don't buy it for a minute). A true fan would also be excited at things like the prospect of him tackling a movie about Hiroshima or free-diving, and not just the obvious action and sci-fi stuff. And a true fan would most certainly be interested in seeing what he does as far as world-building and expansion is concerned, in the first original sci-fi universe of this scale, not based on any source material, since the original Star Wars trilogy. Of course, how any fan of Cameron could claim that his style - in storytelling, themes, visuals and action - isn't ALL OVER Avatar baffles me. In fact, it very much tells me you are not a Cameron fan at all, for there is absolutely no difference to his prior works, for good or ill, in terms of approach; it exhibits exactly the same strengths AND the flaws that have always appeared in his movies. Avatar is probably his third or fourth best film, and one of his most personal, for it contains most of his life's obsessions and interests combined. Anyone who claims that something like True Lies (a star vehicle remake brought to JC by Arnie and not an original idea) is a purer representation of Cameron than Avatar, is full of horseshit. Oh, and Avengers, while fun, is fluff compared to Avatar (which actually harbored an important message that has relevance in the real world). Even Whedon would tell you that Cam is the master, since Whedon is Cam-lite and gets most of his trick bag from JC. But again, the fact that you brought up Avengers is just further proof of what you (and some others) would REALLY rather Cameron be doing - bang bang shoot-em-ups for male teenagers and twenty somethings. This whole stuff about 'true' fans is just a smokescreen. Sorry to say, but Cameron has gone beyond that now.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 6:28 p.m. CST

    The story is ass?

    by D.Vader

    You mean the story of a wounded warrior getting a second chance at life, living through a new body gaining new experiences in a new world, falling in love with new people and choosing to fight against tyranny and evil? That story is "ass"? Well, okay, suit yourself. I happen to like ass.

  • But yeah, the story sucked.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 6:29 p.m. CST

    Avatar 2: Brian Cox Boogaloo...

    by obijuanmartinez

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 6:58 p.m. CST

    Avatar 2: Electric BLUEgaloo

    by drompter

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 7:07 p.m. CST

    I like in the video when the reporter tells him to hurry his lazy ass up

    by Blarg Barfington

    Let's keep in mind that Avatar was a completed script before Titanic came out. I'm sure he went back and tweaked some things when prepro started, in fact I know he did because I read his original script and some things were definitely different. For example, originally the Na'Vi were semi-transparent, more like the aliens in The Abyss. What makes his writing process more complex than most people's is because everything is so excruciatingly detailed. Not only is he worried about the character beats, he wants it to be a living breathing world in which a whole society is functioning offscreen. Most writers just worry about what's happening in the moment and trying to emote some element of humanity but Jim is like some twisted engineer that has to make sure all the gears are meshing in all variables. Oncce he knows the macro story, he can focus on the micro story that aludes to something larger. It's not unlike what he's talking about with the creation of Avatar. He wants the world to exist in some digital form so that he's free to create inside it. It's a more complicated route to go, but it's hard to argue with the results.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 8:21 p.m. CST

    So, will Avatar sequels be remake-quels like T2 was to Terminator?

    by spire_walk

    T2 was a castrated remake of The Terminator, and just an excuse for Cameron to preach to us about the evils of the cold war and showcase gee whiz special effects.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 8:21 p.m. CST

    My thoughts on Avatar

    by vezner2007

    I enjoyed seeing it one time in the theaters but mostly for the visual effects. It's true that the story was lame and totally unoriginal. I've tried to watch it again on Blue Ray but it's just too boring to sit through. Making more Avatar films seems like a REALLY bad idea unless Cameron can figure out how to tell an original story.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 8:26 p.m. CST

    Avatar is just so much blue kitty litter

    by FeralAngel

    Are people still talking about it? Worse, do they actually want to see more of it? Dunderheads.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 8:37 p.m. CST

    Personally , i thought Avatar was great.

    by Father

    Its an absorbing, entertaining, visually astonishing film. It aint perfect and its far from camerons best movie , but for me the pros outweight the cons. I wouldnt mind avatar sequels as long they expand and flesh out the movies characters and universe without getting all convoluted and self important like the matrix sequels. As for an avatar prequel.....no thanks.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 8:46 p.m. CST

    I saw Avatar once in the theater

    by Kain_Bloodstone

    I found it very entertaining but I have no compulsion of ever sitting through it again. Out of all Cameron's films, Avatar has the least "rewatchability" factor. Maybe it's the performances, or the cliches piled on top of cliches, or the drawn out running time, or all of the above. Unless he does something COMPLETELY different with the sequels, I'm giving them a miss.

  • Hobo with a shotgun 2 Goonies 2 ( An animated sequel set directly after the first movie that uses "monster house" style designs and animation) Blood and bone 2 The room 2 ( with a 100 million dollar budget and tommy wiseau given free reign and final cut. Oh yes) Hellboy 3 Willow 2 ( give me that over a star wars tv show any damn day) Okay im done now.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Cameron Is Dead to me......

    by Darth_Kaos

    But at least I got T1, T2, Aliens, The Abyss and True Lies (his last good movie). BATTLE ANGEL: ALITA will only happen if the hard drives that Avatar 2, 3 and 4 are on get destroyed.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 8:57 p.m. CST

    Lol, 'evils of the cold war' - another right-wing loon

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    Of course, the terminator wasn't free to shoot people with impunity in T2, either, so that's another complaint of theirs. Basically, if we drill down to the bottom of it, their hatred of Cameron and all his post-Aliens films is really nothing to do with the films themselves but the deeper messages they impart, and stems from the fact that they are right wing murdernazis (as sagamanus explained above). Then they backwards rationalize and talk nonsensical gibberish about the films to cover up. Republicunts - demanding the right to nuke those Ruskie commie bastards, and the right to bear arms and kill people at will (foreigners or blacks/hispanics/asians; anyone but god fearing christians)! No wonder they hate Cameron and his 'liberal' Hollywood ways!

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 9:09 p.m. CST

    How about Titanatar?

    by Gary Makin

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Pandora is like Christmas to me: too colourful, too much.

    by Gary Makin

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Fuck these sequels, make Alita NOW!!

    by darthwaz1

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 9:38 p.m. CST

    Avatar 2-3 plot

    by johndalf greymane

    Since hes in pre-production, I wonder if JC would have any interest in a story treatment thats been rolling around in my head? Story is always key, especially for this sequel.

  • love the anime.

  • love the anime.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 10:11 p.m. CST

    Cameron getting out of narrative filmmaking? WTF?

    by Buck Turgidson

    Say it isn't so. If he stopped it would be a horrible loss to cinema. There are so many amazing films left in the man.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 10:25 p.m. CST

    Avitar II - Starship Tropper bugs vs. Pandora.

    by Smerdyakov

    Avitar III - Independence Day Aliens vs. Pandora.

  • Ha! Kinda like what Dr. Silberman said in The Terminator. *This is great stuff. I could make a career out of this guy! You see how clever his part is? How it doesn't require a shred of proof? Most paranoid delusions are intricate, but this is brilliant!*

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 10:38 p.m. CST

    I'm over Cameron.

    by baldalienprobeinhighheels

    He made an amazing movie (Aliens), a good movie (Terminator) and an enjoyable one (T2). He hasn't made anything I would add to my personal library since True Lies (tentatively). I don't understand why so many cling tenaciously to a few old timer directors of yore. They've had their day in the sun and as history has proven over and over again filmmakers make their biggest impressions in the nascent period of their careers then slowly become disappointing parodies of themselves in the latter portion of it. I wait patiently for the next big creative breakthrough from an hungry and unjaded filmmaker to make his/her mark on our cultural consciousness.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 11:03 p.m. CST

    Yeah

    by Jeff

    I'm super fired up for "Avatar 2" and "3," since I'm certain Cameron will go for an increasingly intense, remarkably different scenario that no one here is anticipating. Honestly, the guy is just getting started with this story. We'll look back on "Avatar 1" and think, "Aw, remember when we didn't know that X was going to happen? Sheeyit!" I don't know about a prequel, but maybe. If it makes sense, I guess. The second and third films are what I'm fired up for at this point. Can't fucking wait.

  • Sept. 10, 2012, 11:48 p.m. CST

    I've been waiting over 10 years for BAA/Gunnm...

    by Ryoga1124

    Seriously, I've been waiting since the turn of the century for Cameron (or anybody) to do SOMETHING with the property. As a huge fan of the manga and anime, people kept asking me if I knew when we were going to finally see the thing, and I kept saying things like "They're working on it" or "Probably in a few years". Now it looks like we'll have to wait for maybe another seven, if ever? I think I've just about given up on the whole thing.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 12:05 a.m. CST

    So Avatar made a bunch of money

    by eveelcapitalist

    And? Yes, because box office receipts is an objective measure of quality and audience enjoyment. Anecdotally, I know one guy that liked it. Look, I'm happy for James Cameron. Really. He made a bunch of money pandering to the lowest common denominator on a movie that was basically a White Savior Fantasy. Yippy-doo. But it was a piece of shit. The story was garbage, the CG was passable at best, the characters were poorly designed and animated, the acting was stiff and the subtext of the film was imbecilic. But, yeah, it made money. It's got that going for it. Sequels? Meh. Prequels? HAH! Cameron should be doing something new and fresh. Battle Angel would be pretty cool. It's up his alley. But anything at this point would preferable. But if Cameron wants to torpedo his career, hey, that's fine. His call. He's got enough money he can go deep sea diving into the Pacific twice a week for the rest of his life. Build himself a house at the bottom of Challenger Deep. But Avatar brought nothing new from a filmmaker who used to bring exciting things to filmmaking with every outing. Now Cameron's just cashing in his name and wasting everyone's time with these sequels that few people want.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 12:28 a.m. CST

    The thing about avatar...

    by theblackvegtable

    Watching it in the cinema was spectacular with the amazing 3d and special effects, but when I saw it again on dvd I really didn't get much out of it. Actually, I'm pretty sure the main reason it was so successful is the 'wow factor' that comes with pushing effects boundaries. From a story point of view, it was pretty bland.

  • And Avatar 3 will be be Worthington leading the entire Navi population against the returning but bigger badder Human Fleet of Space ships. That'd be my guess. These movies write themselves.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 12:53 a.m. CST

    Rashomon, you sound like a moron....

    by john

    saying "those who don't like Avatar aren't true Cameron fans" makes you sound like a jackass - the kind who refers to himself as a "true fan" because he was around for the original star wars trilogy. People can dislike a piece in a filmmakers body of work, in fact, it's that dislike that challenges him to do better. I didn't like Avatar because it had a false soul and because it was riddled with cliches and an uninteresting plot. The same cannot be said for the rest of his films. So get over yourself you pretentious twat.

  • ...if you want to fund a multi-millionaire's mid-life crisis by going to see his films that he's actually ADMITTING he gives dick all about... Then you're an idiot. But, I don't judge...

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 1:18 a.m. CST

    20th Century Fox is owned by NewsCorp...

    by TopHat

    ...do you have any idea how many environmental destroying, war-mongering institutions that corporation owns, finances, and produces? For anyone to think that they're supporting and/or endorsing some kind of "save the planet" "respect those who are not like you" film experience while directly contributing to this corporation by going to see this movie, is more blind than a... uh, blind person. *bows

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 1:38 a.m. CST

    @ eveelcapitalist Lol you sound like a moron

    by sagamanus

    But Avatar brought nothing new from a filmmaker who used to bring exciting things to filmmaking with every outing. Now Cameron's just cashing in his name and wasting everyone's time with these sequels that few people want.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Hmhh smthg happened to my comment only subject got registered

    by sagamanus

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 1:54 a.m. CST

    that quote is from evilcapitalist not me

    by sagamanus

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 2:30 a.m. CST

    BATTLE ANAL LOLITA

    by Lou_Sassel420

    UNGGGGHGHH

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 3:27 a.m. CST

    Avatar II: Navii vs. Aliens

    by krylite

    Avatar ^3: Navii & Colonial Marines & Terminators (reactivated)vs. Predators vs. Aliens Alien infestation and invading Predators coming to wipe out the whole planet. A couple of ways guaranteed to bring back some semblance of interest to watch further Avatar movies.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 3:32 a.m. CST

    Avatar 0: The Old Hunt

    by krylite

    Navii vs. Predator scout hunters like the original Predator.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 3:53 a.m. CST

    @Mr d.vader

    by albert comin

    I understand your point. but ther eis a differenc ebetween premise, which is what you described, and story. The premise of Avatar is good enough to make many good stories. The story of Avatar itself is derivative and quite unimaginative, ence, ass. The visuals do help disguise it on first viewing, but not on repeating. I'm with the Rifftrax guys on this on everything they mocked the movie for in terms of the story's flaws and illogical plotting. Don't you think i take this lightly. James Cameron is for me a cinematic hero. I'm his fan. but as i asked before above, being a fan does it mean one accepts unciritcally everything Cameron does? I don't think so. "Avatar" is a victory of technical cinematic skill over story and i stand by that.

  • On the technical side, it's hard to find fault. I certainly can't. And Cameron can still stage an action set piece that makes so many "professionals" of the genre look like the incompetent tools they truly are (Hello, Mr Bay). And it's great to see that Cameron still adheres to what i would call a classic style of staging action, as in, you can alwys tell with clarity what is happening, no matter how mad the action is. He's also still great at the little moments within the action. He shows a lot of details in the middle of the action that helps elevate them. In Avatar, most of those revolved around Coronel Badass Quaritch, like him nonchallant drinking coffee while the Na'vi's hometree is destroyed (another day on the job), or him very cooly putting down his arm on fire in the middle of serious fighting, and best of all, him shooting out while holding breath (he can kick ass anaerobicly!!). And he can still get good performances from actors. Stephen Lang and Sigourney Weaver show they are still bosses despite acting half the time agaisnt blue screen (pays off to be theatrically trained). And Avatar might contain Sam worthington's most sympathetic performance. It's all good. But the problem about Avatar starts and ends with story. The premise is good, the intentions are good, the heart is in the right place, the message is topical... but the execution of the story itself is a disgrace of cliches. It's a cliche storm of the kind i never seen from Cameron before. It makes "Titanic" look like an Merchant/Ivory production of emotional and plot restrain. I understand what Cameron was going for with "Avatar", he was throwing back to the tales of Joseph Conbrad, but with a more optimistic bent, or one could say he was pulling a Rudyard Kipling for the 21th Century but with an enviromental consciousness. That's fine. I'm not criticising the intentions, but the execution, specially regarding the story. Maybe Cameron felt that he needed to drop anvils to the audiences. My head, however, disagrees. For me, Avatar worked brillantly on first viewing. But on repeating viewing, it lost the impact. And that was just on the second. This is one of Cameron's movies with the least repeatability value for me.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 4:41 a.m. CST

    AVATAR 2. The next-gen eyeballfucker. 2014.

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    Nothing else matters. And yes, I loved AVATAR. Technically groundbreaking plus great storytelling plus....Neytiri! ♥

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 5:10 a.m. CST

    "The CG was passable at best"

    by D.Vader

    Wow, you're *really* stretching there. Why can't you guys just say you don't enjoy the movie and leave it at that? You have some twisted mission statement to try and paint it as one of the worst movies of all time. And all you end up accomplishing is looking foolish.

  • You guys are pathetic and laughable..you live in your little fantasy world but it is far removed from reality. Yes box office is not always an accurate indication of "quality" but in this case, there was so many repeated viewings and it because it was a damn good film. No one cares if you think it was only good because of the "visuals" and not the story. That is a tired unoriginal statement and says nothing because still says it is a good film, regardless of the reasons. Anwyay everyone loves it but you so go sulk in a corner.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 6:01 a.m. CST

    Pandora is cliche and aint worth exploring for more movies

    by dioxholsters_scion

    If you want my opinion mr. cameron you need to make AVATAR 2 about a completely different story but one with a similar theme or a different take on it. Let the title Avatar be an overarching theme for these collection of tales maybe set in the same universe.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 6:02 a.m. CST

    People never saw 3D before AVATAR, but now its so old hack tech

    by dioxholsters_scion

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 7:04 a.m. CST

    James Cameron saying....

    by Dead_Geek

    After I fuck my film 2 more times in the ass to make the sequels. I'll shoot my load on it's face to make a prequel.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 7:26 a.m. CST

    Avatar 4...

    by Sandy

    Because there were so many unanswered questions in the first film that we as an audience couldn't figure out on our own. No thank you....to anymore of them, period. The only cool thing about the first film was the effects. Other than that, it ripped off a half dozen other films and/or books....something Cameron is now somewhat infamous for. I'd rather have more tales of Barsoom.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 7:59 a.m. CST

    Thin ice

    by Joel Gonzalez

    Who knows what could happen if Cameron returns to Naboo, but there are times that you must let the that project be put to rest. I'll admit Cameron did direct one of the greatest sequels of all time (Terminator) but if he doesn't find away to make his idea fresh because even now it is getting old, his career is finished. Whew, That was one long run-on sentence.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 8:31 a.m. CST

    @Mr rashomon

    by albert comin

    Harsh and incorrect. My criticism of Avatar is for Avatar only. I don't mistake movies. I also don't do copy and paste opinions.

  • But i'm not going to change it to accomodate some people's sensebilities or preferences. So for some Avatar is a great movie experience. Great. I wish i could feel the same, but i don't. My reasons are sincere and as good for my less then stellar opinion as yours are for loving it absolutly. And the world turns.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 8:44 a.m. CST

    The subject of CGI in Avatar.

    by albert comin

    What's so revolutionary about the CGI in Avatar is not it's quality. There ar emany movies which has the same CGI quality as Avatar, some even better. What was so revolutionary in Avatar was immertion. This is probalby the first live action movie with most use of CGI during it's screentime. i doubt there is a single scene in the movie that doesn't feature CGI of some kind. but most importantly, was it's extensive use for world building. So, what is revolutionary in Avatar, the way i think, is not it's quality but how much there is and for the purpose of building a whole world where the story is completly set in (in the theatrical version, at least). Avatar is the first movie in which audiences experienced a different but believable world through the exclusive use of CGI. Cameron himself said words to that effect or similiar. It's even doubtful the movie could had been made without CGI technology, or made that believable. Too bad the same effort put to world building was not put into telling a more original and more sophisticated story.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 9:05 a.m. CST

    CAMERON'S PAST IT...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...ideas are all dried up. Avatar was really weak. I, personally, think he peaked with Aliens.

  • Wrong. I'm a conscientious liberal yet I still found Avatar to be a dumbed down, one-sided piece of propaganda. This movie isn't thought provoking entertainment, there's no subtext, it's just a sanctimonious story that can be boiled down to "man cut down tree ... bad, noble savage living at one with nature ... good". Personally I find this kind of guilt inducing environmental dogma insulting, even though I'm sympathetic to the cause. If you want to see a truly great environmental film go watch the Princess Mononoke (James Cameron certainly needs to). Watch how Hayao Miyazaki crafts a story where there are no villains, just people with different agendas. Tragically, these agendas can be very destructive and harmful to nature, but the people behind them are not always evil, some in fact are quite noble. This is intelligent film making. The way that the Princess Mononoke cautions its audience without preaching to them is a perfect example of great story telling, Avatar is not.

  • Ok, listen, I think this may be the last time I try to talk sense into any sort of so called film fan. I'm tired of people who are just childhood fans of cameron so they defend this film. And no, you're fucked in the head if you truly believe that to be a fan of some director then that means you appreciate all their good work. Yes! thats true, you appreciate all their good work, not recycled stories about things from the past. My God people, turd you are so stupid. Your arguments are for shit. You never truly gave a good reason why this movie is great other than for the graphic images flying across the screen. If you cannot admit that this whole story is a fucking stolen piece of shit from pocahontas, dances with wolves, and the last samuri then I really don't know what to say to you. Open your eyes, wipe away the childhood crush that you have on cameron and realize that this movie was only made as a visual movie with no original story behind it. There is about one good actor in this movie, Stephen, and past that, well, personally I'd rather watch Sigorney weaver is Ghostbusters about a 1000 times instead of this. If you want to talk about Cameron's best true social commentary of all time then atleast compare a film like the Abyss. That my friends, that, is a great cameron film with overall incredible acting, great heart, great social commentary on how we are basically destorying ourselves and those aliens didn't even speak and they had more heart than those shitty ass nav'i will ever have!!! I'm done, that's all, continue to enjoy your piece of shit cameron film. And congratulations, because so many idiots exist out there, you will get about 20 more sequels. have fun with it morons who actually enjoy this movie.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 10:18 a.m. CST

    As long as a Bill Paxton character gets killed by a Na'vi, I'll be happy.

    by jimincognito

  • maybe it was Utah.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 10:22 a.m. CST

    I don't get the liberal agenda crap

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    Avatar didn't sway anybody to grow a tree and the ironically Conservative talking heads got their topic for the week when the movie came out. Threat thwarted. There should have been a gay furry three-eyed bear alien in there to really piss people off. I'm sure the toy would have destroyed marriages.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 10:33 a.m. CST

    DVD? Heh. Like being borat in the 69 with the fat guy.

    by UltraTron

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Let Cameron do what he wants.

    by bubcus

    AVATAR was a solid movie and James Cameron has a fantastic track record in the films he writes and directs. All I know about the sequels is that the next one involves the oceans and that Sigourney's character may not be as dead as we think she is. As a writer and artist, anytime we create a universe and story, we want to spend as much time exploring it and building it. I do it, James Cameron does it, and most other creative people do it. So let him build the universe he envisions. I trust him.

  • This makes absolutly no sense at all. I'm one of those left-wingers who doesn't fall on his knees and praises the shit out of Avatar. So there. If one hates or loves Avatar merely on political inclinations, that's a pretty silly thing to do, if you ask me.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 11:02 a.m. CST

    jolliff89, get used to it, moron

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    because I will be around all through the production of these sequels, just as I was for the first movie. Sorry to say, but I have provided MANY arguments of substance for Avatar's excellence, for YEARS on end. All I can remember from you, however, is one laughable counter-argument that Avatar only made money because there was - and I quote - 'nothing else on'. If you want to sit at the grown-ups table, bring a knife and fork, you fucking cock gobbler. P.S. I am DELIGHTED that the prospect of multiple Avatar sequels infuriates you so. You are EXACTLY the type of moron I will enjoy hearing scream in insolent rage.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 11:09 a.m. CST

    PROMETHEUS does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    James Cameron *sees PROMETHEUS twice* see interview: http://news.moviefone.com/2012/09/06/james-cameron-titanic-kat_n_1861572.html As someone who was connected to the "Alien" legacy, what did you think about "Prometheus"? I enjoyed "Prometheus"; I thought it was great. I thought it was Ridley returning to science fiction with gusto, with great tactical performance, beautiful photography, great native 3D. There might have been a few things that I would have done differently, but that’s not the point, you could say that about any movie. Do you enjoy watching other people’s movies? Oh, yeah. I’m a huge movie fan. I love watching films. I love watching films with the family, with the kids; I love watching films myself. I was out there opening night [for] "Prometheus." I didn’t go to the Thursday midnight screening, but I was there Friday. I like to still get excited about movies and whether they pay off or not, that’s not the point -- the fact that there’s still an excitement around a new movie, about the an unveiling of a new movie. So you’re able to enjoy movies as a viewer? "Prometheus" is a film I saw twice, and I thought about it ahead of time. The first time I would just enjoy it, go for the ride, not be too analytical and the second time I would allow myself to be a little more analytical about, you know, where the lights were and how they lit the shots with all the people in the helmets, how they probably had to do CG faceplates like we did on "Avatar," things like that. But, sometimes, so that I preserve a fun, fan-like viewing experience, I won’t get into that level. I’ll just go for the ride, like, consciously.

  • So Avatar is the EXACT same plot as Pocahontas, is it? Shall we put that to the test? Does Avatar's main plot center around a love triangle as in Pocahontas? Where's the revolutionary uprising in Pocahontas? Where does John Smith try to infiltrate the natives camp? Where does he project his own consciousness into a synthetic body of one of the natives? Is Europe in a state of utter disrepair and requiring urgent resources from the New World in Pocahontas? Oh, that's right - none of these elements appear in Pocahontas (or Dances with Wolves either, for that matter). In fact, aside from the obvious fact that Avatar is sci-fi and the other two of the historical fiction genre, many of even the broad and very vague plot beats of these tales don't appear in Avatar, yet idiots like you (likely parroting what you have heard from others and unfamiliar with the tales themselves first-hand) continue to talk about the story of Avatar being a direct 'rip-off'. That's the problem with you and your ilk. You make vacuous assumptions and cannot reason and debate, instead resorting to histrionics dripping with emotion. For all that I enjoy winding up the haters, I CAN debate soundly and logically, and that is why you're going to lose every time.

  • There are only a handful of movies which were physically hard to sit and watch (Heavenly Creatures, Pi, a few of the Troma films, Plan 9 From Outer Space, Manos: The Hands of Fate, etc.) There is bad, as in "I didn't care for it" and there is BAD, as in "Dear Lord, why must I suffer so?!"

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 11:29 a.m. CST

    And what else did you say: 'The Last Samurai'?

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    LMAO! This assertion is most laughable of all, not just because that movie was released in 2003 and Avatar existed as a detailed treatment back in 1995, but because of the fact that you think a Hollywood star vehicle for Tom Cruise was the first to use such an archetypal story structure going back HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS, of years (probably back to the Greeks if we're being honest). I remember that some dingbats were claiming, before Avatar came out, that it had stolen its concept of 'floating mountains' from FUCKING VIDEO-GAMES (which, for double shame, were released well after Avatar's treatment was written), despite the fact that science fiction literature going back DECADES, includes such general concepts. Your former assertion is in the realm of ass-stupidity as that example is. As I said, you and your kind illustrate the utter bankruptcy of knowledge of a certain type of fanboy, making facile references to only the latest pop culture fads that have penetrated your infant brain in the last two seconds (anything before that being too long to remember), instead of having a breadth of reference and knowledge of the true origins of things. In short, you are illiterate! Try putting down the Spider-Man comics and pick up an Isaac Asimov novel, or read Aristotle!

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 11:36 a.m. CST

    @Mr cobra--kai

    by albert comin

    Did you notice that all that Cameron praised on "Prometheus" is the filmmaking aspects? And he's right to do so, the movie is excidling well made on a technical point of view. Which is to be expected from Ridley Scott. And he says nothing more. So "Prometheus" is a very well made movie? That's not news. What is also not news is that the movie is profoundly stupid beyond belief. So your point is?

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 11:44 a.m. CST

    tophat, you are deluded

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    Avatar being sponsored by NewsCorp does not negate its essential message, any more than seeing a anti-war film put out by Fox (owned by the Republican hawk Rupert Murdoch) means a contradictory tacit support of war. First of all, the film branch of Fox is quite distinct from the Murdoch's media empire and directly run by Hollywood liberals and secondly, nobody thinks they're directly saving the planet by going to see Avatar. If you want to do that, contribute to an environmental charity. Such literal-minded equivalency is ignorant on your part. Are you aware that Cameron would not even agree to sign on for the Avatar sequels until Fox had made a several million dollar contribution to one of his conservation funds? You, my friend, are the polar opposite of the right wing warmongers who hate Avatar; you are a fuzzy minded liberal making vague assumptions and concocting dolt-headed and utterly simple-minded cause-and-effect statements. 'Waahhh!! Cameron's a hypocrite, because he preaches about the environment but lives in a big house!! (despite the fact that his ranch is set up for solar energy and his vehicles modified to be environmentally friendly). Wahh!! Why doesn't the rich man just give away all his money if he's so rich, instead of appealing to others?!!' You see how stupid that is?

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 11:59 a.m. CST

    @Mr turd_is_floating_underneath_the_gravy

    by albert comin

    (i'm glad i don't have to call you by voice because it would be too cumbersome for me, thank Crom for the writing word) I'm glad that you found so much enjoyment out of Avatar. Goodness knows we need that considering the despairing state of so much of the genre movies made this days, specialy those made in Holywood, and the constant catering to perceived dumbness of the general audiences. I just don't share your positive opinion of the movie. I can see the good things it has, and in my opinion Cameon is astill a much better filmmaker then so many of the recent action-genre heroes of today, like Snyder or Abrams or Bay. But i can't also help to see the flaws. Avatar amazes me as much as frustrate me. There's so many things in it that culd had been done more intelligently, more knowingly, more subtly. But it was not and the movie was very sucessful nevertheless. So, it's not the type of movie i can say that it looked as if it was made for me. Suffices to say, the movie hit more buttons with you then with me. So be it. But here is one thing i think you are doing wrong in your atempt to dfend Avatar: denying what's obvious. and what's obvious is that Avatar is a movie made from the same archetypes that makes "Dances With Wolves", "The Last Samurai" and "Pocahontas". Avatar is directly linked to those movies because it uses the same tropes those movies have. It doesn't matter is details differ, the gist is the same. Here's another thing Avatar is a copy of: the literary adventures of John Carter on Barsoon. But my poin tis that instead of you trying to deny what is, frankly, obvous, you should embrace it and use it positively. Use that as an argument IN YOUR FAVOUR. Denial is too desperate and will not sway it in your favor, specially since even Cameron himself has compared his own movie with "Dances With Wolves". As the old saying goes, it's not so much what you have that's matters, but what you do withy it. your defens eof Avatar, the way i see it, should be focused on what Cameron did with the familiar and very well known and used tropes of the outsider invader who falls for the native way of life and renegates his own to fight for his adoptive new people. It's in how Cameron did it that resides both his sucess and failure. Or in your point of view, his total sucess. Peace, brother.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 12:22 p.m. CST

    people who liked that piece of shit prometheus also liked the piece of shit tdkr

    by Hey_Kobe_Tell_Me_How_My_Ass_Tastes

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 12:33 p.m. CST

    Avatar ripped off Joust for sure.

    by UltraTron

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 12:40 p.m. CST

    @Mr hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes

    by albert comin

    people who liked that piece of shit prometheus also liked the piece of shit tdkr

  • Even if we say that the stories are similar, and that the examples Ferngully, pocohantas, dances with wolves and the world of barsoom are its origins(they are not), they are still only 4 compared to the endless garbage that provides stock plots and stories for superhero and action films. But I never hear cries of how little originality went into them. These films used as bludgeons by the morons who have a ready made attack built in for ppl who cant think for themselves, and go on multitudes of sites just repeating it in a zombified chorus, show that fanboy cultists really have never been capable of any critical thinking regarding anything. All the films that fanboys point to as infinitely better than avatar are also derivitive and unoriginal. But these words have no meaning since the chain of recycling ideas is the thing that brings new ideas to new generations of audiences. We have to remember most of these blimps glued to their chairs still remember dances with wolves, but they also assume that all films should be catered to them, and this type of archytype(in avatar) should not be used again for new generations that dont have their memories(ahh you know on the account THEY WERENT ALIVE). It's similar to their hatred of titanic which they dismiss as a "woman's film" and ponder endlessly why hollywood would ever make a movie that wasnt for this little cult of fanboys rotting in their own skins.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 12:52 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    I liked AVATAR, PROMETHEUS and TDKR!!!!! But then again im not a downbeat negative whine baby bitch. Kobe.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Just had to post something... one word in fact.

    by gotilk

    Haters.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 12:57 p.m. CST

    i dont always agree with turd but i can appreciate a good shit. avatar was great

    by Hey_Kobe_Tell_Me_How_My_Ass_Tastes

    He shit all over the haters

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 1:01 p.m. CST

    the coward cobra lai can suck my ass yet again you bitch

    by Hey_Kobe_Tell_Me_How_My_Ass_Tastes

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Haters Against Hating The Hated Haters. Yo!

    by albert comin

  • Topless Kate Winslet as a fiery redhead, fantastic production design, cool story based on a real life tragedy, a tiny bit of social comentary about class differences and the displicency of the rich toward the poor (the vast majority of the people who died in the sinking were poor immigrants, men, women and children). It's a flawed movie, but i still dig it. Just like Avatar, curiously.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 1:17 p.m. CST

    YOU'RE delusional, my friend...

    by TopHat

    ...Cameron has stated publicly that he only makes his movies now to fund his diving expeditions. He's not trying to genuinely question institutions or even tell a worthwhile story - He's just trying to get money for his next dive. He insisted Fox pay several millions of dollars for one of his charities? How about spending the HUNDREDS of millions of dollars spent not only making the film but financing his diving journeys on charities. Or, how about the massive profits he secures from the stocks he owns for the very digital, 3-D technology that he uses and preaches for the rest of the industry to use? You want to make this political, go ahead. The fact is AVATAR was nothing new. It was the direct effect of having the biggest sum of money and duration of time ever given to a Hollywood mainstream film; What we see is not the affect of genius or even craft, but the natural conclusion of having more time and money than everyone else. Romanticizing movies or film makers like AVATAR or James Cameron does not make you a purveyor of art or a voice of practical reason. It doesn't even make you a loyal fan... ...it just makes you a complacent consumer.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 1:35 p.m. CST

    One was enough. He should do a 600 million $ porn movie

    by clancy021061

    In 5D. Whatever that means.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Rumors abound!!!

    by Nice Marmot

    ViggoM. as Dr. Strange in Thor 2 ????

  • It's still an outstanding film, despite the incredible inanity of its political message. But the more time passes, the more annoying T2 becomes. I used to love that movie, but it gets worse every time I see it. The COMEDY is just so lame and cringeworthy. HASTA LA VISTA BABY and I PROMISE I WILL NOT KILL ANYONE and all that self-deprecating Arnie stuff. It's really lame. If I hadn't still been an adolescent when I first saw the film, I probably would never have liked it very much. It's like being an 80's kid and looking back and realizing you liked TOP GUN when you saw it in the theatre and asking yourself, How the fuck did I ever like this? That's what I think when I watch T2 now. Naturally, it's not as severe a case but that's the general idea.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 4:10 p.m. CST

    @Mr fluffyunbound

    by albert comin

    You're being too harsh on old T2. I understand your point, and even back then the "Hasta la vista, baby" was a bit cringe worthy, but the movie has so much good that it compensates all the bad it has. The action alone is still fantastic to this day, the acting is top notch specially from Hamilton, Robert Patrick and Edward Furlong, that stunts are unbelievable and done for real, the CGi still holds pretty well despite the age, and it does a real dramatic heart in the middle of all the mayhem, the drama is real drama and a very affecting one at that. I still enjoy T2 a lot. "Top Gun", however, is total shit.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Absolutely Beautiful...

    by Lacobus

    ...film. Seriously, I get so annoyed when people have a go at CGI. Just look at this thing.. its amazing. For me the story is average but not awful, and far better than some of the dross we're spoon fed. But really, who cares? It's ALL about the visuals.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Yeah, there are some parts of T2 that are just so damn good.

    by FluffyUnbound

    The entire mental hospital sequence AFTER the bad HE'LL LIVE joke is incredible. It's just that I used to think T2 was perfect, but now I think it's like THE ABYSS - great for stretches, but bad for stretches too.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 4:47 p.m. CST

    oh, spare me the statements of 'principle', tophat

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    I have no particular interest in debating you again, since I treated you like an adult in prior talkbacks, and countered your baseless accusations of Cameron at length quite civilly and thoughtfully, only for you to ignore them and continue parroting your nonsense oblivious to all rational counter-arguments. But I will summarize again in the interest of getting it through your thick skull. YOU DO NOT SPEND FOUR OR FIVE YEARS ON GRUELING AND AMBITIOUS MOVIE PROJECTS, WHEN YOU ARE APPROACHING YOUR TWILIGHT YEARS, IF YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE PROJECTS IN QUESTION. Kind of blows away your accusations that Cameron doesn't give a fig about narrative filmmaking anymore, doesn't it? As I stated before, you can dig up and twist any facetious or tongue-in-cheek statements you like to fit your case; shall I also bring up contradictory quotes to yours where Cameron QUITE PUBLICLY stated that he did not have to make another movie ever again after Titanic, and could go into retirement and do expeditions forever instead; the only reason for coming back being to do something he really wanted to do? Quite the inverse of what you claim when it comes to integrity, yes? Cameron has a net worth of about three quarters of a billion dollars; that's more than enough money to do dives 'til they put him in the grave. He does not need to do any more movies to fund such expeditions, and certainly not massively ambitious projects (of which he has many lined up) which are going to take years off his life and test him to the limit. However, all of this is no matter whatsoever. Cameron's motivations are irrelevant to me, since I do not know the man personally and am only interested in the reality of what he puts onscreen. And in all cases, no matter your opinion of his films, the work in question shows all signs of being made by someone who puts his all into the project and cares about it deeply, not sloppily produced hackery made for a paycheck. Supporting such work makes me a SMART consumer, for I recognize when something is made by a master craftsman with respect for the audience and with investment by its creator, and not made by some fool like Len Wiseman or Brett Ratner who churns out passionless bilge at the studios' command for thirty silver pieces, holding their audiences in contempt. Of course, as we see by your closing statements you are utterly oblivious to real craft, laughably attributing Avatar's level of skill to 'having more money and time' than anything else. Really? Really, my simple friend? You think anybody could produce such a work given money and time? Give Michael Bay or any other talentless hack a trillion dollars and decades to make and they could not produce something so good. That's about as lame an excuse as that other Jollif fool who claimed that Avatar only made so much money because there was 'nothing else out'. The old dictum about giving a million monkeys a million typewriters and enough time and eventually the works of Shakespeare will be produced unfortunately does not hold true in this case. And also as your closing statements reveal, yet again we see that buried under your laughable principles and assertions of morality is just another personal vendetta against Cameron because you did not like the film, do not like the person, or are embittered by his success. That's all that's really going on there. Discerning consumers will continue seeing Cameron's works and making them successes as long as he holds up his tacit agreement to deliver quality movies. If he starts putting out crap, they won't. It's that simple. You can go bury your head in the sand, bleat, do whatever you want, but please do us all a mighty favour and shut the fuck up about who or who should not boycott or go to see Cameron's films. Dismissed.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 4:58 p.m. CST

    fluffyunbound, answer me this

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    Can you name any action film in the last twenty years that's as good as T2? Can you even name one that's in the same ballpark? If the answer is no, then that tells you exactly how good T2 really is, or was. If you are just downgrading the film for the hell of it because you've seen it a gazillion times and are now bored of it (we've seen this silly revisionism over and over on this site for various movies, and it is the exact inverse principle of the unadulterated and overblown fanboy love that newer films like TDK got when they were first released), then it doesn't really carry much water critically speaking. You must compare things to their peers, not some imaginary principle.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 5 p.m. CST

    James Cameron = Mike Brady? (yes, of the Brady Bunch movie)

    by Darth Macchio

    Why? Simple...remember that terrible Brady Bunch movie where Mike Brady worked as an architect designer or whatever and everything he designed, from a gas station, to a restaurant, to a posh night club all looked EXACTLY like the Brady house? Same two-story construction..same driveway..same everything. As in, he just can't get past this one creation of his for some odd reason - he must truly be myopic enough to believe that each and every person would OF COURSE feel the exact same way as he did? And the other staff just kinda look at each other above Mike's head as he happlessly looks on while people complain of his designs... Well, Cameron is starting to smack of that myopia... Does he know that Avatar was just a good movie? Not revolutionary? From a production viewpoint it was certainly an amazing feat but that has exactly bupkiss to do with story and what is critically needed here: INTEREST Are people so interested in the admittedly very nice tech being developed along side Avatar production that it will get them into the theater to see a decent story even if its not nearly as captivating as Cameron apparently thinks? I've been a long time fan of Cameron's and Terminator is still one of my all-time favorite flicks but I'm wondering if James has had a little too much of the ego juice and has completely bought the farm of his own hype. I see talks about 3 sequels? Is there really that much story in that universe? I have trouble thinking there is for a single sequel, much less 2 more beyond that??!?! Glad to be wrong here but I think that studio green light might be turning yellow by the time the second one doesn't make a mint and very likely red by the time the third one doesn't really make its money back. I'm not remotely interested in seeing hours and hours of their story - far more interesting to see a fictional documentary of the ecosystems and life on Pandora itself. I'm not the only one on AICN and likely not the only one in audience-land either. the book they did on Pandora and it's living ecosystem was far more interesting than the story they used and, ultimately, the movie itself - beyond the main characters, every creature created in that movie has an extensive back-story and genealogy, I believe, and all it was outlined in the book in a "fictional" documentary type format.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 5:08 p.m. CST

    And Top Gun (with all respect to the late Tony Scott))

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    was a piece of shit even when it came out, not just viewed through the distance of time. There is a MASSIVE qualitative difference between T2 and Top Gun. T2 still holds up; Top Gun was a giant MTV commercial.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 5:38 p.m. CST

    turd -- Top Gun

    by lv_426

    While I agree it is pretty cheesy and not the best example of a great blockbuster film, I have to admit it is one of those films I grew up on and will always enjoy. I mean, back then fighter jets and all that tech was great to see done up in Tony Scott's MTV style and with great sound design (the opening titles sequence of the F14's taking off the carrier and all that was great for the old 2.0 stereo sound system back in the VHS days). So yeah, cheesy but good 80's film IMO, gay Cruise versus Kilmer homoerotic volleyball being the low point for us guys, but probably a highlight for the women in the audience.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 6:01 p.m. CST

    Turd does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    I think this particular talkback has a winner. Bravo sir for some impassioned posting.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 6:02 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    ps. And yes, if you hadnt already worked it out, TOP GUN is gay.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 6:03 p.m. CST

    scirocco

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    While I appreciate your points about the similarities between Avatar's story and others, you have really just regurgitated what I claimed in the first place: that all these stories derive from the same archetypes. I have never denied this aspect of Avatar. What I HAVE decried is the same old bleating by certain individuals that Avatar is a DIRECT rip-off of Pocahontas/ Dances/ Last Samurai, etc. since all these stories are not in and of themselves particularly original and also derive from ancient archetypes. Plus, the SPECIFICS of these tales are NOT the same, and yes, it does make a difference; nor had we seen a cinematic sci-fi treatment of all of these themes and archetypes combined, up to that point. Of course, you are correct that Burrough's work is an obvious influence on Avatar, but then every sci-fi movie ever made, Star Wars included, owes a debt to those sources. It amazes me how critics of Avatar point out how supposedly 'derivative' the movie was, when nearly everything produced in mainstream moviemaking is also derivative of 'formulaic' archetypes. Indeed, there are only about seven basic story archetypes, or templates, in Western literature, going back to the Greek dramas. Most tales are formulaic at their core, and most Hollywood films derivative - and in Avatar it was actually excusable since the goal was to make a visually-oriented, allegorical and mythological story with sci-fi trappings that could be understood across all languages and cultures. The choice was deliberate and cannot be faulted for what it intended to do (and achieved). Whether you like that choice or not is down to personal taste. I expect that approach to continue in the sequels, but I also expect Cameron to add more complexity, shading and hard sci-fi trappings also, since he now has the world's attention. Who knows; maybe he will create something geared more towards your preferences with the sequels, since you claimed that the harder sci-fi opening stretch of the movie was of the most interest to you? Anyway, the claims of Avatar's derivative nature are overstated since it is no more derivative than, say, the original Star Wars. What made that movie unique, and also made Avatar unique, was the presentation and how the familiar tale was filtered through it. But since Avatar was superlative in all other cinematic aspects, this one area was really all the haters had to hang on to for the purpose of bashing the movie. It's good to see your return here under your new alias, even if I do not agree with you much of the time. However, I can appreciate someone who can debate rationally and politely, and will happily accord them the same respect. Now, shouldn't you be raising hell in the Star Trek 2 thread, eh?

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 6:15 p.m. CST

    lv_426, I can appreciate good cheese -

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    hell, I love Commando, Rocky IV, Cobra, Red Scorpion and other ridiculous and campy 80's action movies - but, for some reason or other, Top Gun never grabbed me. Maybe it was the oiled-up beach volleyball sequence you mentioned that put me off. Or just Cruise's smarmy Chesire Cat grinning. And yes, the same accusations laid at Top Gun's door could be made of those aforementioned action flicks, so perhaps my judgement is a little unfair. Strangely enough, I like Beverly Hills Cop 2, which was also done by Tony Scott in that slick MTV style, so it's probably just a question of liking the lead actor or the subject matter.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Thanks, cobra--kai

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    I appreciate the kind words.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 6:44 p.m. CST

    Why I like AVATAR (from an admittedly huge James Cameron fan)

    by lv_426

    Because the traditional old fashioned story, that does bear a resemblance to Pocahontas, Dances With Wolves, and A Princess of Mars, was done right for the setting of Pandora. Sure sometimes it is annoying when an old story is redone, but IMO Cameron did a good job taking that basic archetypal plot and using it to build on for his amazingly detailed world of Pandora. Because it was an amazing immersive experience in IMAX 3D. Saw it four times in the theater: opening midnight showing, the next day with a friend, again that weekend with my brother who wanted to see it again, and then a few weeks later as it was destroying the competition at the box office. It is also a good experience at home on Blu-ray. I'm not even talking 3D, as I don't own a 3D television. Just good old fashioned 2D high-def. Sure for some of you, it isn't as amazing and immersive at home as in the theater, but for me it is still an enjoyable film to watch at home on disc. Not only that, I enjoy the director's/extended cut even though the theatrical cut is just fine as is. The behind the scenes on making-of material on the special edition is also great stuff. Maybe not as amazing as when I first sat through the epic Alien Quadrilogy b-t-s docs, but still pretty darn good. As far as b-t-s docs go, I'd rate the Avatar ones about on par with something like Blade Runner's Dangerous Days. Just a great and comprehensive b-t-s doc that lets one peek into the massive undertaking that was Avatar. Because Avatar looks like a Jim Burns painting come to life. Because the world of Pandora treads the line between familiarity, accessibility, and exotic extraterrestrial weirdness. Sure Cameron could have made it weirder, as the Avatar scriptment describes things (purple camo for the troopers as the forest of Pandora were more exotically colored in earlier drafts of the story), but what he did was make it more accessible to a larger audience. Now, maybe that isn't everyone's cup of tea, but what matters is if it works or not. For me it did. Although, I like both totally out there batshit insane science fiction (Zardoz anyone? great flick), but I also enjoy the more accessible and relatable science fiction like Alien/Aliens (obviously), the remake of Battlestar Galactica, video games like Halo, and of course Avatar just to name a few examples. Now, people are gonna say, *Cameron should have made Pandora weirder and totally unlike Earth!* Well, in your opinion, fine then. That is one way to approach the story. Then again, would the story work as well if it was totally un-relatable to humanity? Like if the Na'vi where giant jellyfish creatures or alien centaurs with giant three cheeked asses for faces who communicated by flatulence or something odd but scientifically plausible? Sure it could have been as weird or off-putting as say the stuff Giger creates, but then again this story wouldn't work. Speaking of Giger, sure Avatar's designs aren't as iconic or as evocative as Giger's, but then whose are? Also, Avatar looking not only like a great Jim Burns painting come to life, the film also employed the great Wayne Barlowe to design some of the Pandoran flora and fauna. That was like a dream come true for me, to see both the styles of Wayne Barlowe and Jim Burns come to life in an epic sci-fi adventure from one of my favorite filmmakers. The fact that Cameron took his Colonial Marine aesthetic, which has now become a sci-fi good guy archetype and tweaked it by making them the bad guys. Not only that, he switched the subtext by making the military presence in Avatar that of mercenaries and not that of the official Earth government military like in Aliens with the marines. Now, people are going to say that the mercs in Avatar were painted as all evil simpletons. Not really. First we had Jake Sully, who was on Quaritch's side from the start. Then we had Trudy, the chopper pilot played by Michelle Rodriguez who also didn't agree with the corporate and mercenary agenda. Then by the end of the film you had the Na'vi preparing to turn the whole planetary consciousness against the human colony. At that point, if you're a soldier you don't run out into the jungle with a white flag, cause that jungle will eat you. All you have is the intel fed to you by Quaritch. You see that the planet is getting ready to eat you and shit you out. Do you, as a mercenary say fuck it, or do you think maybe you should fight for your life along with the other colonists? Even if you disagreed with Quaritch's methods, you still probably want to survive so you might get a chance to get on the next starship back to Earth. That isn't evil, just basic survival. To paint all these soldiers as pure evil is silly, and is not understanding the greater subtext of the film and the idea of colonization in general. Painting the mercs in Avatar as pure evil for following orders or wanting to get home in one piece is to paint all soldiers who don't have a say whether all their orders might not be the most morally just ones given to accomplish, is foolish and more disrespectful to not only our troops, but soldiers in general. I'm not saying there aren't bad guys in uniform out there, whether we are talking military, police, but that it is a more complicated and delicate matter. Also to add to this is the fact that the human colonists have had a time of peace with the Na'vi. That is why the whole fucking Avatar program that Sigourney's character Grace had pioneered and used to develop a link with the aliens in the first fucking place! Could Cameron have given us a bit more insight into the mercs? Maybe had another couple merc characters that joined up with Jake and the revolters? Sure. That is something I'd like to see addressed in the sequels. That is why I like the idea of having Michael Biehn as the next military guy sent in to secure a new outpost and to help clean up some of Quaritch's mess. As much as I loved Quaritch as a bad ass villain, he was much more gung ho than the job might have required, and seemed to want to go to war with the planet itself. Bombing the shit out of Hometree was just a way to get started and maybe scratch that itch (if you doubt this, remember the backstory his facial scars implied, as well as his attitude of both respect and disdain for Pandora, as if it were the one enemy he couldn't defeat, but he'll try once he gets the chance). So Biehn could come in as a more thoughtful, less trigger happy military commander in charge of a second expedition to Pandora. Just watching his two iconic soulful warrior characters in Reese and Hicks from The Terminator and Aliens makes me think he'd be perfect for the sequels. I like the idea of going from Quaritch to a different type of villain. Just as Breaking Bad has psychos like Tuco to start with, but then later on gives us calculating villains like Gus Fring in later seasons. Not only that, Biehn seems to have a good working relationship with Cameron, and to be honest I'm a Biehn fan and want to see him get a nice big fat juicy mega-blockbuster role in this latter part of his acting career. He deserves it. Of course, Bill Paxton as a whacked out of his gord Na'vi amped up on Pandoran shrooms would be fucking amazing to see as well. Then again, Paxton could play an engineer type. No, not the giant bald pale skinned type of engineer, but a blue collar guy from Earth type that goes to Pandora for the adventure and the money. It would be too much to have both him and Biehn as military types. Maybe Bill could play a civilian contracter sent to help mine the unobtainium or build a new colony. Seeing as he played something more along those lines in Titanic with his treasure hunting oceanic explorer type character. So yeah, I like Avatar as well as Aliens and Terminator and The Abyss. Titanic and True Lies are great too. I understand some don't enjoy Avatar on the same level as say Terminator or Aliens, but to say there is nowhere else to go with the Avatar story and characters, as well as new characters in sequels and maybe a prequel is just insane folks. Pandora alone holds huge possibilities, especially the oceans that Cameron says he wants to elaborate on in the sequels. Not only that, but we've barely seen any of the high-tech dystopia that is the future Earth in the Avatar universe. None if you haven't watched the extended cut, which even then is just a bit at the beginning. Does that mean I wouldn't also want to see Jim Cameron tackle some more Aliens, Termintor, or make a kick ass live action Battle Angel? No, as I love Aliens and Terminator and have read a few Battle Angel Alita mangas and think it has huge potential, especially in Cameron's hands. The bottom line for me though, Avatar has room to grow in follow up films. I'll be there opening day, just as I would if Cameron made a different sci-fi film exploring different ideas and worlds. But then again, I'm a big fan of his work. I'm just glad he is back to making ambitious films, and not solely devoted to his oceanic explorations, which are still very cool endeavors themselves. The bottom line though, I'm a Cameron fan because of his films, ever since I first saw The Terminator and Aliens back in the late 80's, I was hooked.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Battle Angel

    by mukhtabi

    is a phenomenal Father Daughter adventure. Avatar was okay. I loved the visuals but found I didn't need to see it again afterwards. Not sure I want these sequels more than Battle Angel Alita.

  • ...they really all need to be there, but particularly Arnold. I don't care how, just make Arnold a villain again. That said, I'd rather see James Cameron do Battle Angel, and the Terminator is down but not out. James Cameron should buy the rights, and make one more that brings the sinking ship back afloat. Then quit, and make sure those rights are never sold.

  • ...he probably has a secretary who keeps track of this sort of concise, well articulated enthusiasm. James Cameron is truly one of the movie god's and deserves to do whatever pleases him artistically. And, I am happy there will be an Avatar 2 to shut all of this "Dances With Smurfs" stuff down. But yeah, if Jim's secretary is listening to all of this, James Cameron and Arnold are like Peanut Butter and Jelly. Milk and Cereal. Please, bring it.

  • a second. T2 was considered the greatest action film ever done and is still a contender but Arnie's dialogue and delivery has always been something your brain just glossed over so you could continue enjoying what you were doing. You were enjoying this epic movie with a character that is a real Lobo or something and every time he opens his mouth it's dish look liike duh toomuh dere in muh faze becuz hime gone tew rahm daht intew jour stumak! I mean every time this guy has spoken it's been to curl our balls up into our brains and lodge them tightly between our incredulous reactors to constrain them from guffawing spazmatic. The man came to this country and some amazing things because he realized we weren't gonna do it. We're a bunch of slack jawed faggots.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 9:59 p.m. CST

    He has the shadow power of hypnosis.

    by UltraTron

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 10:26 p.m. CST

    Why Avatar made $2 billion Worldwide.

    by tailhook

    Are you seriously kidding? Did you watch the film? The whole thing is an ode to evil colonialism and how the little guy can overcome the 'evil empire'. How would it not resonate around the World and make $2 billion when that type of story appeals to pretty much every country that toiled under colonialism. Or do you dumbasses not know the history of Colonialism? As per America, we always like underdog stories and the myth that an indiginous people with sticks and the help of Mother Pandora can overcome all odds, while our hero gets it on with the Princess. Its not exactly a hard sell unless make it a period piece, star a Civil War vet as your hero, and have the civilization be on a planet we know for a fact to be uninhabited and desolate *rolls eyes*.

  • Sept. 11, 2012, 11:51 p.m. CST

    Just for fun, if a genie gave me 3 Jim Cameron movie wishes...

    by lv_426

    1) Avatar sequels, and if need be, the prequel he says he might do after parts 2 and 3. 2) Battle Angel, either directed by Jim or with him as writer and producer while he hand picks the director to helm the project. I know I'll get flamed for this, but maybe if Zack Snyder makes a damn good Man of Steel, then he might have the right sensibilities for Battle Angel. As WTF? insane that Sucker Punch was, some of the action in it, particularly the chick versus the giant metal machine gun samurais, kinda sells me on the notion of Snyder being able to bring to life the kind of action a Battle Angel movie might need. Snyder goes a bit overboard, but maybe with a Nolan or a Cameron there to restrain his over-the-top sensibilities, we'd get a really nice live action Battle Angel Alita adaptation? Of course, we all want Jim to write, produce, and direct it... but if he is tired from the sure to be epic endeavor that will be Avatar 2-3 plus maybe a prequel called Pandora or something like that, he might want to hand the directing duties to someone else. 3) This is a tough one. Let's say Jim decided he'd come back to either Aliens or Terminator as writer/director, or at least as writer/producer. Do we go Aliens or Terminator? Tough call. I think it depends on where Sir Ridley takes Prometheus. I don't think Jim would step into the Alien/Prometheus prequel territory, and seeing as there isn't much wiggle room to go with the Alien films in the 200 years between Alien³ and Alien Resurrection, I'm gonna say let's go with an epic Terminator: Future War. One epic final chapter giving us a true post apocalyptic war film with an older grizzled John Connor leading the final battle against Skynet, culminating in Reese being sent back in time to 1984. I think for the third wish, this works best because as much as I'd love another Aliens with some Colonial Marines, Jim Cameron will have already played with that archetypal character some more with his Avatar sequels. Not only that, but the Alien saga has always been one that lets a different filmmaker come in and make something new from film to film. So as much as I'd like to see Cameron come back and give us some more Colonial Marines action, I think another filmmaker like say a Neill Blomkamp or Niel Marshall could run with the notion of another military sci-fi themed Aliens-like film in the franchise. Then on the other end of the spectrum, Ridley will be doing his thing with the Prometheus sequel Paradise, and perhaps a third film as he has hinted at being a possibility. So yeah, in a perfect world we'd be so lucky to get: -- Avatar 2-3, Battle Angel, then after that Terminator: Fall of Skynet (or some such titled final Terminator film set in 2029 during the near end of the future war with all the fixin's like the dark future visions from T1 and T2 with the lasers and purple tracer firing 40 watt plasma rifles, starring a 40-45 year old Christian Bale as John Connor). -- A good genre-comfortable director doing a more serious action/sci-fi sequel in the Aliens universe, featuring some Colonial Marines on a mission in the Outer Rim where they run into some of the aliens. -- Then on Sir Ridley's end, ideally the Prometheus sequel Paradise. After that The Forever War instead of a Blade Runner sequel (I just worry about that one, no offense to Ridley). If we got all that awesome cinema by the end of the decade, then... well, I don't know what I'd do. Probably spontaneously combust.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 4:20 a.m. CST

    @Mr lv_426

    by albert comin

    If you want to see a movie that treats jet planes as the cool and sleek sweet piece of machinery they are, go watch a movie that was made at around the same time as "Top Gun", and is "The Right Stuff". That's how you make a movie about cool jets. And for added bonus, the movie is also about astronauts. And a damn good one. "Top Gun" could drop from the face of the Earth and nothing would be lost. The only people missing it would be the gays who use the volleyball scene for preliminaries.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 4:38 a.m. CST

    @Mr turd_is_floating_underneath_the_gravy

    by albert comin

    I'm not in the business of raising hell, i just like to say it as i see it. And my over-eagerness to start up conversations. Avatar is a derivative work, and i say that in the neutral definition of that word. I'm not judging here. It's derivative in the sense that it takes direct inspiration and whole plot elements from other works done in the past. Avatar is Pocahontas in space. That's not a crticism, it's a description. I'm sure that might even be how Cameron sold the movie to Fox. The added fun aspect is that Pocahontas is based on real history, but for an acurate depiction you would had to watch Terrence Malick's "The New Wrold", not the Disney movie. My point was that you fans of Avatar should embrace the derivative nature of Avatar, the fact it's Pocahontas in space, because trying to deny or downplay it is like fighting gravity, it's an uphill battle impossible to win. Do what you sometimes do, focus on the things you are sure Cameron did well, like how he gave his personal spin on the tale. How good he is with orchestrating action that's presented in a very clear and easy to follow fashion, an welcome contrast to most director's style this days. Praise the fact that Cameron has this classic style of filmmaking where you know the geography of the scene imediatly, that you are never at a loss where scenes happen and the relation they have with one another. As for the fact the story is simple to the point of simplism, that's a fact of life you fans have to accept. The movie is sophisticated in it's world building, but not in the story it tells. Personally, i would had appreciate if Avatar's story was as sophisticated as the visuals. I hadn't that, and i make my harsher criticisms of this movie based on that. I'm fully aware that this simplicity is what engaged many to the movie, as in, the story didn't got in the way of the visuals. I can appreciate a movie that has a simple plot. some of my favorite movies have just that. Movies like "Blade Runner", "The Thing", "2001: A Space Odyssey", "Apocalypse Now", "Silent Running", "Heat" have simple plots, but they have a very rich and sophisticated subtext behind the story while offering rich entrancing visuals. The problem with Avatar is that it has a simple story to follow, rich visuals, but pratically no subtext whatsoever, because everything is explicitly stated with no chance for alternative interpretations. And i know that Cameron is able to put intelligent subtext in his movies because he has done that before in "The Terminator", "Aliens" and "The Abyss". What's peculiar with Cameron is that the older he gets the more simplistic his movies are. As for faith in the future and Cameron adressing whatever flaws the first movie has with the sequels, that's just that, it's an act of faith, and i can't make arguments based on faith. Nobody should make arguments based on faith. I have a bad experience with that thanks to "Prometheus".

  • He's both informative but also witty, specially if in company of one of his filmmaking friends. A joint comentary with Cameron and Paxton would certainly be one for the ages, because Paxton is hillarious. The actors group comentary in Aliens is basically Paxton making his collegues cracking up laughing all the way through from start to end.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 8:03 a.m. CST

    Turd, it's hard to parse out how I turned against T2

    by FluffyUnbound

    First let me say that I didn't say I hated it now. I just said that I used to regard it as great, as now I have downgraded it a little. I was a big Arnie fan back in the COMMANDO and PREDATOR era. And I liked the Arnie persona. But when the day comes that you're sick of the Arnie persona and start to find it a little silly and clownish, when you go back and watch T2 again its flaws are more evident. And it's not a matter of having watched it a billion times, because I've seen T1 twice as many times and it's still great. Because Arnie is used as a figure of menace, and not as a clown. So the persona is muted and it's not as lame. When you're seeing T2 in the theatre for the first time and you're still a fan of the Arnie persona, you're so busy geeking out that you don't notice that the setup scenes with Furlong are atrocious, for example. You just gloss that over on first view. And here's another secret: even the first time I saw T2, I thought the car chase scenes were a little too long and got repetitive. But I fought that knowledge down, because I was laughing so hard after Arnie said Why? when Furlong told him he couldn't kill anyone. I'm not a Cameron hater. I think T1 is one of the great sci-fi films of all time, I will defend ALIENS to my dying day (the humor in that one doesn't rely on shtick) and in this very thread I said that AVATAR is so incredibly well made that its plausibility holes don't matter. I even said I was a fan of THE ABYSS, despite the parts that lag.

  • Nobody should be ashamed to love The Abyss. You are right to do so. And that movie really has no big problems at all. I would even say the movie has no problems at all. And if some think the movie lags or is boring in parts, that's their problem. As far i can tell, Cameron's filmmaking was never better then in The Abyss. Only a great filmmaker could had pulled off a movie like it.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 9:15 a.m. CST

    @Mr fluffyunbound

    by albert comin

    While i don't agree with some things you said, i completly understand your mindset and why you think like you do. I really see your point and on principle i agree. I just think that T2 is actually quite restrained in regard to 80s/90s Arnold action man persona. But yes, there's still some that did leaks in the movie, but it's so well used or restrained that for me it doesn't bother me. And i'm more critical of Arnold's action man persona then you seem to be, specially because i hold movies like "Commando" with contempt. But i love "Predator". You said a smart thing about "The Terminator" in regard to how Cameron used him in the movie as a figure of menace. Fortunatly back then the Arnold action man persona had not been developed yet, so he actually acted the part instead of being Arnold pretending to be a killer robot. Also why i love Arnold in "Conan The Barbarian".

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 9:53 a.m. CST

    I agree - no appetite for Avatar

    by dagwood

    Jim, seriously. Time to give up on it. I couldn't get through 15 minutes of Avatar on bluray (it was good in the theatre, I'll give you that), but no one wants more.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 11:03 a.m. CST

    @Mr rashomon, you mistake me for somebody else.

    by albert comin

    And we never had such a quarrel. You have to lay off the cheese, it's making you forgetful.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST

    scirocco, sometimes it feels like going round in circles with you

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    As I pointed out in my brief outline of the differences between the two stories above, Avatar is clearly NOT a beat-by-beat retread of Pocahontas, which is what the detractors claim. It has similarities in some aspects, and no doubt Cameron had that story in mind among others, but these similarities are not the whole of the tale and are part of larger story archetypes regardless. What the detractors, eager to stick the knife in, overlook are the distinct DIFFERENCES and points where the two stories diverge. So, sorry, but it is just not the case. And the stupidity of the peanut gallery sniping at Avatar with the same unoriginal (oh, the irony!) insults should always be hammered down by the more widely read and educated. The fact is is that Avatar takes its influences from a LOT of sources (Rudyard Kipling, Dune, Call Me Joe, Alan Dean Foster's Midworld, etc.) and not all in obvious ways, instead of being a direct retread of the same two or three generic accusations thrown out by ignorants that do not stand up to close analytical scrutiny at all. ALL genre works, by their very nature, are a cannibalistic stew from the cauldron of prior efforts, ie. Alien (IT! Terror from Beyond Space, Planet of the Vampires, Voyage of the Space Beagle), Star Wars (The Hidden Fortress, Westerns, etc.), The Matrix (Paprika, William Gibson, etc.), reconstituted in familiar yet divergent ways. Avatar is no different. Sorry, my friend, but you will get no quarter from me on this count, and not out of obstinacy, for I have already proved the claim to be false in all but the most generic and superficial terms. As for the idea that I was imagining what Cameron would do for the sequels being based on 'faith'; it is not. It is based on EVIDENCE and all likelihood, both in a knowledge of the man's work and his thematic and aesthetic preferences, and on the original Avatar treatment, which was much harder sci-fi in many of its concepts, some of which were dropped to simplify the tale for mass consumption. It doesn't matter to ME, at all, nor was I trying to argue the merits of the movie based on some future supposition; I enjoyed his approach to the first movie and would enjoy such an approach in a sequel were it to remain the same. P.S. I respect you, but please do not insult the intelligence of Rashomon, myself and others by pretending that you are somebody else, a trick that you tried in some of your previous incarnations. You would have to drastically change your writing style and opinions to disguise that!

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 12:27 p.m. CST

    fluffyunbound, sounds to me like your tastes changed

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    rather than T2 objectively getting weaker when viewed over time. I, too, enjoy, and still enjoy, the 'Arnie' persona, but enjoyable or not, it certainly didn't disguise the shortcomings of his lesser films, not even at the time. And T2 (nor T1, Conan, Predator, Total Recall, True Lies, etc.) is not one of those films. Even when the film came out I recognized it as a cut above - in intent, theme, writing, direction, quality of action and character development - enjoyable cheese like Commando. So the Arnie persona certainly doesn't disguise the flaws in his movies. T2 has very little flaws, as far as I can see. About the only one would be the slow mid-section where the T-1000 drops out of the film for about forty minutes or so (True Lies has a similar problem). But this is minor structural stuff and hardly critical. And I think you are just splitting hairs if you are criticizing the action sequences in T2 which are simply faultless, perfectly paced, and about the best ever realized on the screen.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 1:15 p.m. CST

    lv_426, Snyder is too stylized for BA

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    or at least for the approach that Cameron is going for. I think he mentioned in an older interview how he wanted to do BA in a 'realistic' style and not go for the typical stylized anime look (which includes cliches like super slo-mo during the action and characters flying through the air with stars and psychedlelics streaming in the background, that sort of thing). Basically a gritty, nuts and bolts approach like T1, with that extending to the action as well. My own wishes for what Cameron would do after the Avatar sequels certainly includes Battle Angel, and yes, I'd like to see a final Terminator movie or an Aliens follow up as well. But another would be this hard science fiction movie he keeps talking about, concerning a realistic depiction of the first colonization of Mars, with all the science and physics approved by NASA. Whether that would be a money-maker is anyone's guess, but I'd like to see him do a really hard, non-action oriented science fiction film of that type because he's entirely capable of doing so and hasn't really done one before; The Abyss was about the closest he's come so far on that front. And while the amount of remakes is becoming ridiculous these days, I'd still be interested in seeing his take on Forbidden Planet, if that's still a possibility at this point.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Turd, you ingnorant fool.

    by spire_walk

    The Terminator SHOWED you the evils of nuclear war and the horrors of what the cold war could lead to. T2 got on a fucking soap box and preached it. "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves." "If a machine can learn the meaning of love, maybe we can too." If you need everything from the last movie repeated more blatantly in the sequel, you're a goatfucking retard. And I'm a fucking libertarian, thank you very much you state worshipping welfare/warfare twat.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Turd, I love ya buddy, but I too hate T2!

    by Dan

    It's overrated as hell. A movie that is vastly superior and is picked on for far less offenses yet is demonized by fanboy stumps- The Phantom Menace. T2 has been ruined for me for reasons not yet known. I think it's Furlong's piss-awful performance... and the sappy ending. Some excellent action sequences, laced with terrible dialoge, not a deal-breaker, but when Lucas is hated FOR THE EXACT SAME THING...give me a Nell Carter-Sized BREAK! Jake Loyld will never suck as long as Furlong's performance is on display....ugh.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Agreed on Top Gun- JUNK- I hated it when it came out...

    by Dan

    and still do. Awful, incoherent editing, confusing story...pointless everything else... I saw this as a fan of Tom Cruise who I dig most of his work.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 1:49 p.m. CST

    spire-walk, you are a neo-con

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    I know that from the content some of your previous posts. The reason that you like T1 so much is that you symbolically identify with the Terminator (he's the bad guy, doofus); you want the right to bear arms and 'terminate' anyone you don't like the look of! In T2 that kind of wanton killing was questioned; ergo, your hatred of T2! Now, I, on the other hand, AM a true libertatrian.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 1:54 p.m. CST

    zodlovesmaude, you must be nuts, sir

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    The Phantom Menace (which I have actually defended parts of) is, in no kind of reality that I'm aware of, 'vastly superior' to T2. That's just crazy talk. Furlong was excellent as John Connor, embodying everything that that character was intended to be as a child, and far better than Nick Stahl and - incredibly - Christian Bale. Jake Loyd was by no means the worst part of Menace, but he's wasn't good, either. Terminated!!!!

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 1:59 p.m. CST

    turd- I don't think it means what you think it means.

    by spire_walk

    You do realize libertarians are pro-2nd amendment, right? Here's what makes a libertarian. We hate wars of imperialism. We hate large government, and don't want it in our bedrooms, bodies, or homes. We don't want it taking money from us to finance its endless warfare/welfare and war on drugs. And T1 didn't need to question the killing. We were fucking smart enough to draw that conclusion on our own. Was Edward Furlong's whining the only thing that keeps you from killing? Really sad.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 2:07 p.m. CST

    @Mr turd_is_floating_underneath_the_gravy

    by albert comin

    What is that evidence you speak of, please? Also, I'm not in the business of insulting anybody's intelligence, my name is not Michael Bay.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 2:08 p.m. CST

    T2 = Michael Bay action flick.

    by spire_walk

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 2:12 p.m. CST

    turd_is_floating_underneath_the_gravy

    by Dan

    I respectfully disagree, you magnificent bastard... I don't like to rag on kid's performances, but Eddie was dire, so dire he makes me cringe when I do watch it. I didn't like Arnold's "babby-sitting mode." It should have worked as a buddy movie instead of an awkwardly pairing of two actors, one with limited ability and the other with ZERO. I'm not going to say it's the worst movie ever - that's never an accurate declaration-it's not even a bad film, just not as good as some have said... Ah well... Keep the battle on, Turd, we shall unite in the future Star Wars threads I'm sure...

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 2:24 p.m. CST

    spire-walk, I didn't say a damn thing about gun control

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    I said bear arms AND KILL ANYONE YOU DON'T LIKE THE LOOK OF, ie. FACISM. The opposite of social liberties and one being merely a pretext for the other. And no, T2 isn't a Michael Bay action flick. Not in any way - completely opposite aesthetic style, completely opposite politics, completely opposite in its treatment of women, and certainly not comparable in its level of quality of direction, acting, comprehensible action, writing, logic and character building. Stupid comments like that, that can be easily dismantled in ten seconds, do not help your case. TERMINATED!!!

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 2:34 p.m. CST

    zodlovesmaude, since when did Arnie's limited acting ability

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    mean that he was not a perfect fit for the character of the terminator? T2 was not supposed to be a buddy movie; it was a father/son story, except father was a cyborg. Terminator and Son. And the fact that the film pulled off such a potentially ridiculous concept so successfully is further proof of its excellence. You can rest assured that, while nowhere near as bullish as I am on Cameron and Avatar, I enjoy defending Lucas and Star Wars against similarly ridiculous accusations, so yes, I will continue to do that in the appropriate threads.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 3:08 p.m. CST

    scirocco

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    I remember Cameron specifically stated in interviews that he dropped many of the more challenging concepts of Avatar in order to make it more universally appealing. I think he knows very well the mass audience's low tolerance for purer science fiction and probably wanted to make the film less risk-averse for such an expensive project, so that he could start dropping these things back in in the sequels. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I have no need to defend Avatar on these terms, though; I have always defended it on its own merits.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 4:15 p.m. CST

    @Mr turd_is_floating_underneath_the_gravy

    by albert comin

    So Cameron is saving the best for last? That's hopeful news indeed. Thank you for sharing it.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 4:35 p.m. CST

    Even if it actually WAS Pocohontas in space...

    by Darth Macchio

    ...it's still a rather boring story. You see - the point isn't that it's a retread. People have often said there hasn't been a genuinely original story written in generations...maybe even longer. But this reductionist thinking misses the point entirely... The point isn't is it new/original, a rip-off, or a loving re-tread/remake... The point is simple: does it exist as a story on its own and is it good? Of course Avatar exists as a story on it's own. No one can argue that (or we'd be hearing about the lawsuits Cameron's fighting about plagiarism). And, of course, opinion is a major factor when it comes to the question of "is it good?" but to me, Avatar is the least engaging from a story perspective than most everything I've seen that was written by Cameron. He had roughly a $6 million budget and told a cross-over sci-fi/action and even elements of horror story with the first Terminator. There are many examples of similar themes in science-fiction with regard to the wonderful and most glaring paradox of the Terminator storyline that Cameron developed (he and Gail-Anne Hurd I believe). And that story, to me, is STILL capitivating almost 30 years later. Avatar was "seen enough" after maybe 3 or 4 times and yet I can always watch Terminator. Personal preferences aside - I think Cameron did about as much Michael Bay as he could with Avatar...he's just infinitely more talented on a creative level than Bay so his Avatar is a far more concise and satisfying story...but I feel that far too much attention was put on design and world building than story development. It's not due to it being repetitive of any number of other stories over the decades/centuries...which most films can be faulted for at some point in the story...no, its about telling what may be an age-old story but telling it in a boring/predictable way instead of a innovative/captivating way.

  • I really hadn't heard much about what Cameron intended for Battle Angle. If as you say he intends for a more realistic take on it, then yes, I suppose Snyder is too stylized. I think the closest we've come to the type of world seen in the Battle Angel Alita manga and anime, on film would have to be Hardware. Kind of a shame that Richard Stanley never got to really do much more, as he had great potential, especially for darker genre material. Some other Cameron projects I wouldn't mind to see done, either with him directing or writing and producing: Strange Days done as a cable TV series. This one has a great concept which turned out as a good film, but has potential to be reworked and expanded upon. It would also be more feasible in terms of budget, due to the basic concept placing the story a very near future timeline. Xenogenesis, which is a cool concept using the sci-fi trope of the generation ship. Although, maybe the well on this one is a bit dry due to Cameron supposedly cannibalizing ideas from this for Mother, which became Aliens, as well as some of the concepts for Avatar. Bright Angel Falling. This is probably a real long shot, as Bay and Bruckheimer supposedly lifted almost the entire plot from this script for Armageddon. I suppose since Hollywood is so remake crazy, if they ever decide to do another killer comet or killer asteroid film, they could always do Bright Angel Falling instead of remaking Armageddon or Deep Impact. That Mars colonization project you mentioned. I don't know if you are talking about the Kim Stanley Robinson Mars trilogy adaptation that Cameron was supposedly going to make as a TV miniseries. Either way though, a hard sci-fi Mars film or TV show produced by Cameron would be cool to see.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 7:37 p.m. CST

    scirocco --

    by lv_426

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 7:38 p.m. CST

    scirocco -- The Right Stuff

    by lv_426

    Oh yeah, I like that one too. I just watched it a couple nights ago.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 8:12 p.m. CST

    lv_426

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    I just mentioned 'Bright Angel Falling' in the Argo thread, actually. And, having read that script a long time ago, there's probably no chance it could be made, since Armageddon lifts entire set-pieces, characters and situations outright from Cameron and Hyams' script, except they fudged the science, added ridiculous humor, and generally dumbed it down. It was clear reading 'Bright Angel' that it must have been sold to Disney (or Gale Ann Hurd, who was a producer on Armageddon) and cannibalized in order to make both Armageddon and - since several sections are duplicated outright here, too, including the first discovery of the asteroid by a child astronomer and a tidal wave sequence - Deep Impact as well. The script would have to be drastically re-written in order to be made, but a film about an asteroid heading for earth, and the attempts to stop it, is probably going to revolve around the same basic situations if a logical approach is to be taken. 'Xenogenesis' was apparently a full-length script, with the short film that Cameron made purportedly being used as a demonstration to encourage investors to plump up money for the full feature. I think he did use parts of it to write that 'Mother script', as well as, in time, Avatar - apparently there was a sequence involving bio-luminescent beings or plant life. The Mars project I mentioned was or is, from what I can gather, supposed to be a theatrical feature film, though I have heard about the planned Kim Stanley Robinson TV adaptation, as well as an IMAX documentary about the same subject. Even a book that was supposed to be released. I'm not sure if these were all separate projects, or ancillary arms of the same one. Here's another one I forgot about - 'Brother Termite'. You can see a mo-cap test for this on the Avatar Blu-ray. I've never read the novel on which it is based, but it seems to be a more sophisticated take on Alien Nation or D9, with the alien visitors having infiltrated the highest levels of Government. Lots of political espionage but with a science fiction bent. Other scripts that Cameron has developed over the years, even some going back to the 80's, are: a Lone, Wolf and Cub adaptation; something called 'Warlord' which was a violent sci-fi, fantasy Metal Hurlant style project that was supposed to star Arnold Schwarzenegger; a time travel story about the Scarlet Pimpernel coming to the present day called 'Time Vortex', which was sort of Terminator in reverse; a supernatural script called 'Skimmers', written with his buddy William Wisher; his X-Men adaptation to be directed by Kathryn Bigelow, and quite a few others. Unfortunately, info on most of these projects is scant at best. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Lightstorm or Cameron's office and get a look at some of these unproduced scripts. I'd especially love to peep that Alien 5 script he started writing, just to see what it was about. It makes you realize that you really only see about ten percent of the stuff that most filmmakers develop and that doesn't end up getting made for lack of money, time and other annoying variables.

  • Sept. 12, 2012, 11:28 p.m. CST

    turd -- Alien 5 script!!! Yes, I'd love to see that

    by lv_426

    Brother Termite sounded interesting too. I remember hearing about that one way back in the 90's. It sounded very X-Files, which is fine by me as I love all that stuff. If I remember correctly, Brother Termite was actually a book that Lightstorm bought the film rights to. I should probably hunt down a copy of the novel. As for Xenogenesis, I think you're right about it having bioluminescent beings and plant life. I also heard that the basic concept of the Na'vi (big blue-skinned humanoid aliens) was in Xenogenesis. I think Mother was where the whole power loader/AMP suit battle with an alien originated from. Although, some of that was in Xenogenesis a bit too. I'd love to read his full length Xenogenesis script, as well as the one for Mother and of course whatever he and Ridley were originally planning for a fifth Alien film. You could be right about Bright Angel Falling. Maybe he just cut his losses and sold the script to Gale Anne Hurd? Too bad it wasn't Deep Impact and Bright Angel Falling during the summer of 1998.

  • Sept. 13, 2012, 4:17 a.m. CST

    @Mr turd_is_floating_underneath_the_gravy

    by albert comin

    Since you are such a scholar on James Cameron, do you remember one project of his from the 90s called "The Crowded Room"? It was supposed to be his first non-SF film project, preceading "Titanic". What happened to it? If i recall correctly, they even had cast John Cusack in the lead role. What do you know about it?

  • Cameron's scripts are easy readings and they do stir the imagination. I read his treatment for spider-Man (the story was silly and a weird take on the character, but engaging reading nontheless) and his first draft script for "Strange Days" (another great read and a wonder excerice in world building). I'd love to read his astroid movie script.

  • Sept. 13, 2012, 4:27 a.m. CST

    @Mr lv_426

    by albert comin

    As soembody liek me who loves all that conquest of space stuff that happened in the 60s and 70s, the movie "The Right Stuff" is an heavensend.

  • Sept. 13, 2012, 5:51 a.m. CST

    I didn't even know they made a Fern Gully 3.

    by Athntk

    Maybe they will just go Bourne Legacy and have 70% of the movie repeat Avatar 1.

  • Sept. 13, 2012, 8:25 a.m. CST

    Turd,

    by Dan

    Arnold is fine, it's just that Furlong was so bad, but hey...agree to disagree, you are one of the good ones.

  • Bad acting? Where? He stands up to every other adult actor in the movie. Anoying? Maybe you are mistaking the character for the actor. John Connor the character starts as a bit of an asshole, but he grows throughout the movie and in the end you can tell the seed of the great man he will become (or would become) was planted on fertile soil. I have seen Furlong in other movies and he was always outstanding. And better, he never got suplanted by other veteran actors. A though act to follow for an actor who was so young back then. So when i see people complaining about Furlong in T2 i think they are mistaking the forest for the trees. I wish i could see more of him in movies today, he's in need of a comeback.

  • Sept. 13, 2012, 11:28 a.m. CST

    scirocco, the script for 'A Crowded Room' is quite easy to find online

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    You don't have to bother searching file sharing sites or torrents for it; it is available on most of the public screenwriting sites if you wish to read it (unlike Bright Angel Falling). Let me tell you, I think, from a pure writing standpoint, this is probably the best script Cameron has ever written. Whether that would have translated into one of his best films we will never know. But it was so different from his other films, basically a low(-ish) budget drama with some crime/ thriller overtones that it would have radically changed perceptions of Cameron at that time (as it was supposed to have been his follow up to T2). The script is based on the true story of a guy called Billy Milligan who was arrested for multiple rapes in the 1970's and convicted, then found by psychologists to have multiple personality disorder which he had fostered as a response to deep-rooted childhood abuse, incredibly harboring up to twenty discrete identities, from a female persona to a tough mercenary to a cultured British ambassador. He had developed all the attendant skills and mannerisms that come with these 'personas', and the movie followed him through his travels in these identities as he switched (quite unknowingly to himself) between them all in order to address different situations. Once he was in one guise he was quite unaware of the others. So there are many episodes, some action-oriented, some tragic, some comic, that play off this as he weaves between the different personalities. The reason 'A Crowded Room' ultimately did not end up getting made was apparently due to one of the producers of the movie who had optioned the rights to the Milligan's memoirs (the source material for the movie). She was someone in the restaurant business who had little knowledge of the film industry and, due to some legal or financial disagreement with Cameron, very unprofessionally pulled the plug on the whole production mere weeks before it was to start filming. Cameron was incredibly pissed because he had spent months researching the subject, interviewing the guy multiple times, and training John Cusack to play the role convincingly. Matters were not helped by the actual guy himself going around in his schizophrenic state (he had been institutionialized but release by this time)and filing multiple lawsuits against all parties. A very strange set of circumstances indeed. Anyway, this film would have been extremely challenging because to work out all the camera angles needed to depict the character's mental state and convey his identities would have been a logistical nightmare, and Cusack's performance, if he had been able to pull it off convincingly, would have been one for the ages. Some similar films have been released since then that also put a kibosh on subject matter that would have been very novel at the time - think De Palma's 'Raising Cain' with John Lithgow, and 'Identity' (which also starred Cusack). Neither are anywhere near as good or as ambitious as 'A Crowded Room', in my opinion, an ill-fated production which I think demonstrate quite how far Cameron's ambitions, interests and talents extend beyond the 'broad strokes' mainstream sci-fi action material for which he is mostly known (and sometimes criticized for).

  • Sept. 13, 2012, 12:05 p.m. CST

    @Mr turd_is_floating_underneath_the_gravy

    by albert comin

    Thanks a bunch for your reply. That description of "The Crowded Room" makes be beleif the movie would had been something special and indeed a turning point for Cameron. To bad it didn't got made. It prpofundly irritates me this backstage pollitics that prevent us from getting this cool and interesting movies and all because of petty fighting and ego. What bullshit. As for "Bright Angel Falling", if you read it, what you think of it and what part of it enthralled you the most?

  • Sept. 13, 2012, 12:55 p.m. CST

    Furlong is terrible.

    by Dan

    Which I was willing to let slide since he was just a kid... but every movie I've seen him in after he stunk. He hasn't been in a movie in years so who knows if he's improved. Doubtful, seems to like the drugs way too much.

  • Sept. 13, 2012, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Turd,

    by Dan

    Sounds incredible! Too bad for Cusak, as he's been deadly dull for several years now.

  • Sept. 13, 2012, 4:01 p.m. CST

    scirocco: Bright Angel Falling

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    is about as you'd expect from a James Cameron treatment of this concept. It is extremely exciting and very (indeed copiously) scientifically detailed. There are lengthy passages dealing with the nuts and bolts of the operation and the engineering of the shuttles down to the smallest minutiae; you can tell Cameron did a massive amount of research for this script. Imagine you travelled through to another dimension where you could watch a smart version of Armageddon; that's what you're getting here. In fact, as I was reading it I realized why I enjoy Cameron's movies so much, for nearly every issue I had with the horrible Armageddon was addressed here. To give an example: there is an incredibly imbecilic scene in Bay's shitfest where the MIR space station blows up for absolutely no reason whatsoever, save Bay's xenophobic Middle American loving ass (no offense to anyone who's from there; I am merely talking about Bay's stereotypical depictions of such things, not the reality) wanted to poke fun at those 'stupid Russkies', and also create an excuse for more explosions and 'action' based on no rhyme or reason at all. Remember the silly loony Russian cosmonaut and how he broke off a piece of old equipment in that station which led to its destruction, implying that the Russian equipment was crap and badly engineered? There is no such illogical action in Cameron's script, which also contains a similar sequence based around the station; the action scenes escalate naturally from the situation, which makes them intense and exciting. The astronauts (and yes, they are actual astronauts and scientists in this script, not oil drillers) are already in space, docking with the station and still within earth's gravitational pull, when a chunk of comet hits the planet, the resulting impact sending up gases which penetrate the earth ionosphere and cause the shuttles to spin out of control in a complex series of escalating run-on physics, and slam into the side of the station. And the sequence mounts from there, the problems getting more hazardous at every turn. Also, the ridiculous stereotypes are downplayed in Cameron's version, as the Russian scientists (the main one being a female astronaut) and the Americans work together. You can tell Cameron has a lot of respect for the scientists and engineers and what they do, and they are not portrayed as idiots and rednecks in his script. And one further thing I enjoyed in his script; there is a strong subtext in the screenplay about how, should such an event ever come to pass, it will be mankind's scientific ingenuity and courage that will stand the only chance of saving the day, not appeals to faith or prayer or superstitions. There is a whole subplot revolving around a group of religious fanatics that try to derail the mission before it has even begun; they think that the asteroid is judgment on mankind by God and should be unchallenged. The fundamentalists assassinate the original mission commander, and the main character is a back up that steps in as his replacement. Later, when following some parallel stories on earth as the survivors of the initial comet strikes seek out refuge with the asteroid within hours of wiping out the human race, we see that the evangelists have all committed a mass suicide. Meanwhile, thanks to the ingenuity of the scientists, engineers and astronauts, the disaster is averted at the last seconds. In Bay's crapfest I remember him pandering to the conservative heartland with people praying in front of churches and lofty talk about how the survival of the mission is within God's hands (working through Bruce Willis, no doubt!). This aspect of the Cameron script struck me, not only because it was consistent with the themes expressed in his work about technology ultimately being a potential saviour of mankind or ruinous to it, depending on how it is used, but also because it is something rarely glimpsed in mainstream America cinema for fear by the studios that they piss off a large portion of the demographic (at least in the US). I can only assume a massive budget was the reason Cameron's script was never made, and indeed the script was so gargantuan in scale it may have cost more than Titanic and T2 combined; yet Bay's Armageddon was not exactly cheap itself, so we can only imagine what was going through the studio executives' minds when they made their regrettable decision. Maybe not enough fart jokes on Cameron's part? That must be it!