Although he's made a reputation for himself as one of the acting princes of micro-budget/indie films, Paul Dano has dabbled at just about every level movie making there is, and I've always found myself curious what he's going to get into next. I think the first time I remember noticing him was as one of Emile Hirsch's weird friends in THE GIRL NEXT DOOR. But soon he was popping up in such higher-end dramas as THE BALLAD OF JACK AND ROSE (his first time acting with Daniel Day Lewis, to be followed a couple years later by Paul Thomas Anderson's THERE WILL BE BLOOD), THE KING, and Richard Linklater's FAST FOOD NATION.
But a lot of people got their first sampling of Dano's working in LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE, directed by then-first-time directors Valerie Faris and Jonathan Dayton. In the last couple of years, Dano has been all over in smaller works like GIGANTIC, TAKING WOODSTOCK, BEING FLYNN, and MEEK'S CUTOFF, in which he played husband to Zoe Kazan, his real-life companion. But he also popped up in larger works like Jon Favreau's COWBOYS & ALIENS and KNIGHT AND DAY, opposite Tom Cruise.
I guess this is my way of saying Dano doesn't do a "type" of movie as much as one might think. But with his latest work, RUBY SPARKS, written by Kazan, he really shines in a semi-comic/semi-tragic story of a writer who had one groundbreakingly good novel when he was young and has struggled to write anything ever since. After a dream about meeting the perfect woman (also Kazan), he is inspired to write about her, and somehow she shows up in his apartment as his new girlfriend with no clue that she is his creation. Things get dark and twisted when Ruby begins to show signs of tiring of Dano, and he heads back to his typewriter to fine tune the situation.
Dano has some truly funny moments in the film, but he also taps in a great deal of insecurity and self-loathing as the film progresses. RUBY SPARKS is both charming and moody thanks in large part to Dano's fantastic performance. And I found him to be a compelling, sometimes cautious, but always engaging guy to talk with. When we met the night before just before a Q&A with him, Kazan, and returning directors Faris and Dayton, he asked a lot about my recent trip to Comic-Con, where LOOPER premiered footage (he has a small role in the film), and we both sung the praises of writer-director Rian Johnson. Please enjoy my conversation with Paul Dano…
Capone: This wasn't going to be my first question, but I was talking to Zoe about it, and she said you might have a different answer than she did. With her writing this film and the two of you being in it, and it being about a relationship however different it might be from your actual situation, when you’re doing press, it gives journalists almost an open invitation to ask much more personal questions than you’re probably comfortable with. Did you two have any conversation about that before you really dove into this?
PD: Yeah, I think that’s one of those fleeting thoughts that at least I probably had or maybe we had that you immediately try to exorcise from yourself because, to me, that’s a thought that has more to do with the result rather than the process of it, which is sort of, for us I think, the most exciting part. Being there along the way while Zoe was writing it, coming home and seeing pages is so fun, and then getting to daydream about it together and send it to people, and hope and pray that it gets made, and hope and pray that somebody sees what we see in it. To not go through that because we would be worried about how people would think of us, I think is doing ourselves a disservice. I think we also thought if we at least make a film that we’re proud of, then that is going take care of most of that.
Capone: Yeah, I don’t know how guarded with that you are...
PD: I’m more guarded than Zoe. I’m definitely a fairly private person, and I can get tongue-tied in these situations. Also because I think a human conversation that we’re having, I think you’re going to get most of the intention of what I’m saying or will relate. Sometimes when you see a sentence in print, like a text message, sometimes you can interpret it differently and that sort of scares me. Sometimes. People can ask away, and we’ll deal with it as it comes.
Capone: Because you were such a part of the process, from the writing of it and getting Valerie and Jonathon involved, were you concerned, "Wow, is that what Zoe really thinks about relationships? Does she really see people as manipulative and that controlling?" Did you learn anything about her thought process by reading those pages?
PD: I think I had a unique first read of the script because it was very broken up. I think Zoe, as she might have said to you, probably wrote close to 20 pages and then put it away for a long time, maybe six months or so. And I had probably read those first 20 pages already, and every now and then, I thought, “I wonder where that’ll go,” or if she’d ever get back to it. And then pages would come through, and I had no clue where it was going.
I think that at first I was probably just turned on by getting an insight into the process and truly wondering where the story was going to go, which I think is part of the audience experience as well, which is something I really like about the film. I don’t know what this says about me--maybe it’s romance or naivety or something--but that was not one of the first thoughts that crossed my mind. It really wasn’t. I actually thought it was kind of great where the film ended up going. I think I also had enough faith in our relationship that I wasn’t looking at her giving me some sort of message, which would have been a really scary thing, and if she was, I did not get it, Zoe, so you’re going to have to be straight up about it. [laughs]
Capone: When you’re looking at roles to play, does fear ever factor into a decision? I can see some aspects of playing Calvin that would be a little scary. Tell me just about the role of fear in your decisions.
PD: Yeah, I think definitely my favorite thing is to read something and be surprised by it; that’s sort of the ideal circumstance. I think that I like to feel challenged. If I feel scared of something, that’s usually the first sign that I should maybe do it, because it just sort of gets your blood going. Like that feeling before you step onto stage if you do a play, you’re really terrified and you feel you’re going to piss your pants or you might throw up, but I sort of love that feeling because when you conquer it, that’s a real feeling of satisfaction. Yeah, I just get turned on by that.
I like to have problems to deal with and figure out and go at. I think I get bored of myself if something feels too easy or simple. So that is something I think drives me just as a reader and as an actor. Sometimes I wish it weren’t the case, but I think it is. I actually do think with this, the greatest thing that Zoe did as a writer was not just write scenes from our life or write us up there because A) that would have pissed me off, B) I think that she challenged me with her writing and with the character, and I really knew she would do that because she’s a good writer, but I really appreciated that. I think acting your girlfriend’s words and acting with her and seeing this film through from the ground up certainly does add a fear factor for sure.
Capone: Was there ever a time you thought you might be too close to the work, just so involved with it that you weren’t seeing it objectively?
PD: Only now.
[Both laugh]
Capone: Sorry.
PD: No, no , no. There were times, because when Zoe was writing, I tried to, because she wrote it, take on some of the producorial aspects for us just because she was doing so much work as a writer, and I'd go, “Okay, I’ll be the one to pick up the phone, let’s call people, and let’s make this happen.” I remember being in bed at night sometimes, and instead of dreaming about Calvin, I'd be worried about are we going to get a location or something, which is a very strange thing for me because normally the actors are not as involved in pre-production sometimes, so to have those other things on my mind, that was the one thing that I found hard and at a certain point kind of had to cut off and separate from. And maybe I’m bullheaded, but I did not worry about objectivity and just kept trying to start with what the script gave me and build the character as I would any other time.
Capone: I was so impressed with the comedy in this film and the way that you play. I’m sure you’ve done other things that are funny, but there are some nice little touches that I think people found charming and funny. At the same time, by the end of the film--I know Jonathan said something about wanting to make sure we didn’t hate the character--but the fact is there are going to be people that hate the character at the end of the movie.
PD: No, that’s great.
Capone: That typewriter scene, that's a rough scene to watch. Did you care that much about the likability, or did you just want people to understand Calvin?
PD: Well, I didn’t, no. I don’t know that I concerned myself with likability, but that is something that we all thought about, and I think because of what Ruby is going through in that scene, because of the physical aspect of it, it really shocks you as well as emotionally, but I think what Calvin is going through emotionally there is pretty much just as painful as what she’s going through. I think he’s destroying the thing that he loves most, I think it’s self destructive, I think it’s masochistic, and I think he can’t just set her free with the typewriter; he has to make her not love him. Sometimes to get sober, you have to go out and have the worst night you could ever have, and I think that is what that scene is like. You have to go to rock bottom to rebuild sometimes. I think Calvin needs to learn his lesson, and once he changes her for the first time, you have to go to where the film goes.
Capone: You’re afraid it’s going to go there.
PD: Yeah, but I also think some the ideas that the film is about, about having the idea of somebody and imposing that on them, and asking them to be that in control. I think if we didn’t go there, A) you wouldn’t be exploring that to its fullest extent, B) I think you’d be dismissing it. If you let them off the hook, you’re not really holding them accountable for what’s going on, and I think that’s what’s unique about the film is that it uses something that’s magical and fantastical, has really great highs and is fun and romantic, and funny, but I think the fact that it goes there just doesn’t let the audience off the hook or the characters off the hook, either.
I think people are going to have personal reactions to the film, which I think is a good thing. Whether you are somebody who is controlled or been controlled, I think you’re going to have an experience. I do hope that in the end, Calvin will leave that sort of place in arrested development, being called a genius at 17 years old and become a man, and that means being OK with himself and also taking what life gives him and seeing the person across from him. I think the thing that I experience is that what he’s going through is also not fun.
Capone: I was going to ask you about the hang up he has about being called a "genius." It’s clearly something that he’s been dealing with since he was young. Why do you think he reacts so strongly and negatively to it?
PD: Well, he hasn’t really followed up that for success, and I think that just has to do with pressure and probably trying not to have an ego and just being defensive. Because to go sit down at a typewriter, and if that’s in your head that you have to write a work of genius, how are you going to write a work of genius? I mean that’s, so I think it cuts, I mean it’s quick, man. I think everybody has something like that where they hear, and it sort of makes you cringe.
Capone: He reacts to it in a way that's almost like an insult, because they’re not talking about the current him. They’re talking about something that he was never able to really capitalize on.
PD: Right, right. Well, I think that plays into what the film’s about too. Having the idea of somebody
Capone: I love the scene with the ex-girlfriend because I think so much is revealed in that small scene. I’ve certainly been in situations where you just pick up a fight right where you left off with someone you haven't seen in months or years. But the things that come out in that conversation, and the idea that Ruby is someone that doesn’t read very much, as opposed to what he had before, which is someone who was very involved with literature and writing.
PD: Right. Absolutely. I’m glad that you felt that. I think it’s so telling that he wrote a girl who is not actually that interested in what he does because everybody else is interested in what he does, so he wants somebody where he feels, I think it’s safe, and the expectations are different.
Capone: The film speaks very much to the idea that we’re never quite satisfied with the person we’re with, and everyone has that thought in their head if we could just change that one thing they’d be perfect. What do you think it is about humans that makes us that way?
PD: Well, also the first thing I thought when you said that is also, are we ever satisfied with ourselves too? I think those are very related because I could ask you to change something about what you do, or I could ask myself to adapt or change just so I’m okay with that. I think that’s just something in our nature, and that would be a much larger conversation for us to have. I think it’s really interesting, and I think it’s a part of the film. I don’t know that it’s a question that we can answer.
Capone: I know you’re making a TWELVE YEARS A SLAVE with [writer-director] Steve McQueen. I talked when Steve came through with SHAME. Can you tell me anything about what you do in that film. Are you shooting it now?
PD: Soon. They just started. It follows one slave, Chiwetel Ejiofor, on his journey, and he gets passed around a little bit. There’s a lot of great actors in it, a lot of parts.
Capone: It’s like the most incredible cast I’ve ever seen.
PD: Yeah, yeah. It’s crazy. I am a guy who he comes in contact with on a farm who maybe he wishes he did not come in contact with. That’s what I’ll say. I am looking forward to getting down there in the heat.
Capone: Where are they shooting that?
PD: Louisiana.
Capone: Like you said yesterday about LOOPER, it seems like every movie is shooting in Louisiana now.
PD: It’s going to be wild to go from this [gestures at the suite we're sitting in] to a farm in 1841.
Capone: Exactly. Alright, thank you so much. It was really great to meet you.
PD: It was really nice to talk to you and meet you, yeah.
