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Comic-Con: Peter Jackson discusses The Hobbit and Silmarillion, Gollum curses, and Quint describes the 12+ mins of footage that screened!

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. This is it… the last of my panel coverage and the only one I’m a bit behind on. Saturday-Sunday morning I just about killed myself to post up as much panel coverage as I could, but The Hobbit was always the one at the end of the line and had to wait an extra day for me to finally knock it out.

It was kind of intimidating to write-up, actually. Peter Jackson and crew threw the gauntlet down with over 12 minutes of footage plus a production diary about the wrap of production on The Hobbit. That’s a whole lot.

I’m also in a weird place with the movie, having spent so much time on the set with the crew and cast I just have zero objectivity when it comes to this film, so I’m going to do my best to keep any critique out of the footage description because I know me saying “this is awesome” carries little weight when I’ve been so entwined in the production.

The whole shebang started with the lights going down and Misty Mountains reverberating through the hall, to huge cheers, followed by the next production diary featuring many of the dwarves and crew greeting Comic-Con, including the lovely Leith McPherson, the dialect coach on the films, go said hello to Comic-Con in Dwarvish… she knew her audience, they ate it up!

The diary also featured first looks at some not-yet revealed characters, including Luke Evans’ Bard who has long hair, shadow of a beard with a thicker goatee and spent some of the diary dodging huge flame spurts as he jumped across the roofs of Laketown. We got to see some fire stunts from Smaug’s attack on Laketown, too, including a nice bit with one of the stunties being blown through a doorway by a ball of flame, flipping over a railing and landing in the water of the lake.

Another nice bit was seeing the oversize Beorn’s house interior, built so that the very large Beorn’s furniture was the right scale for the short dwarves. I kept expecting to see Lily Tomlin pop up in there… The look of the house was very wooden and very inviting, hand-made tables, chairs, etc.

There was also some behind the scenes shots of William Kircher’s Bifur (ax-head guy) getting pelted by dead fish in his barrel which was quite fun.

Oh, and we got our first look at Stephen Fry as the Master of Laketown, too. When it cut to him, with his unwashed stringy hair, Fry moved his hands in front of his face calling out “Spoiler Alert! Spoiler Alert!” That was quite fun. He also compared bellies with his stand-in.

Even more crazy was seeing a bit of Bilbo in Smaug’s layer, giant Scrooge McDuck mountains of coins surrounding him. They even showed one crew member on his hands a knees in the piles of gold coins feeling around, telling the camera he lost his wedding ring.

No dragon, of course, or even a hint at Benedict Cumberbatch’s voice, but we did get to see some of Martin Freeman’s work in this scene from what looked like a rehearsal. He’s kneeling down in the gold and standing up as he says, “Dwarves will take some catching… and so do burglars!” as he mimes putting the one ring on his finger. When he does that makes an explosion sound with his mouth and laughs at the BTS camera.

Oh, and we got to see Martin doing some exaggerated karate moves with the stunties, playing around between set-ups.

The final day of shooting involved Mirkwood, with crazy twisted trees. Gandalf says, “I need a horse!” Someone asks, “Where are you going!?!” “In search of answers!” and then Peter calls for cut and says, “Well, unless anybody else has anything they want to shoot, I think we should call that a day.”

Some shots of the post-wrap celebrating on the set and a passionate, humble speech from Peter to his crew, thanking them for supporting him over the last 18 months, and the diary ended and Peter came out on stage.

I’m not sure if that diary will be shown online in any form, but we do know there’ll be some production diary that involves Comic-Con because Peter was filming the crowd with his iPhone, which he said will be included in the Comic-Con diary. “I’ve been recruited as the second unit cinematographer.”

”I guess we should probably run you a bit of footage, shouldn’t we?” Peter warned us that the footage is unfinished, with a temporary soundtrack comprised of some of Howard Shore’s Lord of the Rings score and some bits and pieces from other movies (Shore starts scoring with the London Philharmonic in about 5 or 6 weeks) and all the effects shots are unfinished. “There are some that look quite good and some that are a bit dodgy,” he said. There was only one wide Gollum shot that looked off to me, honestly. Most of it looked damn near finished to me.

He also let us know that there are some bits from Film 2 in the mix. Then they ran the big footage, which was quite a lot, as I mentioned above.

Unlike the technology focused Cinemacon footage presentation, this one was all about the footage. Shown in 24fps 2D the content was the centerpiece. Jackson chose long sequences to anchor the footage instead of a typical quickly cut sizzle reel.

”The dragon, Smaug (pronounced Sm-Ow-g), has not been seen for 60 years. Eyes look East to the mountain assessing, wondering, weighing the risk. Perhaps the vast wealth of our people lies unprotected. Do we sit back while others claim what’s rightfully ours or do we seize this chance to take back Erebor?!?” says Thorin around Bilbo’s dinner table and then we get that full scene, which leads to Bilbo being hired as the burglar, much to his dismay.

This sequence is the “I cannot guarantee his safety,” bit from the trailer and it really seems to set up the character of the group, especially Bilbo who is eavesdropping the whole conversation doesn’t realize Gandalf’s about to pull him into the adventure.

When he realizes this he panics a little bit, but there is a side of him that wants to go. And then he’s handed the contract and bristles when he’s told it covers the usual stuff “out of pocket expenses, remuneration, funeral expenses.” He quickly looks through the long paper. Mumbling, “… company shall not be responsible for injuries resulting from lacerations, evisceration… incineration?!?”

James Nesbitt’s Bofur then excitedly starts talking about the dragon. “Think furnace with wings!” Bilbo’s head swims and he fights a faint… and loses.

The footage also gave us our first glimpses at two fresh characters. First being Radagast the Brown as played by Sylvester “I’m a Timelord” McCoy. We see him nursing a hedgehog back to life. He’s a ratty figure, long dark beard, side of his head covered in bird poop, big (but not pointy) hat and wooden staff. There was a second shot with him as he lifted his hat and let a few birds fly under it. He’s a great character and I can’t wait to see how he comes across in the film. I dare say from what I saw on location and in this bit of footage I believe he’ll be an audience favorite.

The next big chunk of a scene was Gollum and Bilbo meeting. What was interesting for me in this sequence was seeing how they divided up the scene between Gollum and Smeagol. Gollum wants to eat this hobbit, Smeagol seems overjoyed at having a bit of intelligent company. It’s Smeagol who wants to play the game of riddles and hearing Serkis back in the role is amazing. You forget just how much empathy he injects into Smeagol. I love that guy.

”If I win, you’ll show me the way out?” “(Smeagol to Bilbo) Yes! Yes! (Gollum to Smeagol) And if it loses, what then? (Smeagol to Gollum) If it loses, precious, then we eats it! (Smeagol to Bilbo, matter of factly) If Baggins loses we eats it whole.” Martin Freeman holds this moment, milking it for an appropriate amount of laughs before going “Fair enough” and sheathing Sting.

Probably the most emotional part of the footage was the scene between Gandalf and Galadriel in Rivendell that you see in the trailer. She’s asking him why he invited the Halfling to join the quest. “I don’t know,” he says. “Saruman believes that it is only great power that can hold evil in check. That is not what I have found. I have found that it is the small things, every day deeds from ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I am afraid. He gives me courage.”

McKellen kills it in this scene, if I may be so bold. He shows why Gandalf the Grey is so much more of an interesting character than Gandalf the White. He’s admits his fear, shows vulnerability, but also shows the great power of love. It’s a beautifully written and performed scene and Cate Blanchett shows much grace by her comforting gesture, her brushing Gandalf’s hair out of his eyes. It’s the scene that got to the most out of any of the footage, no matter how cool it is to see Bilbo pick up the ring or the red-headed Tauriel (Evangeline Lily) slicing up some Orcs or Legolas doing a slide through the leaves in Mirkwood, aiming an elvish arrow at our dwarves, it’s the quiet moments of connection like the one between Gandalf and Galadriel that make this feel the most like Lord of the Rings to me.

One more thing to describe before getting to the panel info, another important aspect to this movie is Bilbo’s relationship with the ring and the hold it has over him.

Again, this is a small, character-driven moment between Gandalf and Bilbo. “You’ve changed, Bilbo Baggins. You’re not the same hobbit who left the Shire.” “I was going to tell you… I… found something in the goblin tunnels.” “Found what? What did you find?” Bilbo is fingering the ring in his pocket, finding it hard to tell this wizard who he trusts with his life what he clearly wants to tell him. Gandalf’s interest increases and Bilbo finally says, “My courage.” Which is both true and false at the same time. He did find his courage, but he can’t reveal to the wizard what that courage was born from. It’s an incredibly smart scene and very well played.

Gandalf finishes with “Good. You’ll need it” as we see bits of crazy fantasy threats, like orcs, goblins, a Stone Giant (literally a man-shaped mountain-sized figure) tossing a giant boulder at the fellowship of dwarves on a rainy mountain ridge and the trolls holding Bilbo upside down.

Huge reaction from the crowd, of course. I love being in the Hall when they really get into something. It’s like being at the Geek Superbowl.

The panel featured Peter, Philippa Boyens, Martin Freeman, Richard Armitage, Sir Ian McKellen and a surprise appearance by Elijah Wood, who they just found wandering around being nerdy and brought him up on the stage. Here are some tidbits:

-Peter hasn’t shot his cameo yet, but he’s shooting it this week as they do one last round of pick up shots for An Unexpected Journey. “I’m going to be a bit difficult to spot this time around and I’m not going to tell you where I am.”

-Philippa Boyens talked about creating Tauriel because it is such a boys story that they needed to have a little feminine energy. She wanted to assure us all that they believe it’s completely within the spirit of Tolkien’s universe and isn’t just thrown in to have a lady around.

-Will Peter ever do The Silmarillion? “I the chances of me living until I’m 110 are very remote.” –PJ He followed it up by saying that The Tolkien Estate 100% owns Silmarillion and the Tolkien Estate doesn’t like the movies at all “so I wouldn’t imagine the Silmarillion is going anywhere for a very long time.”

-After a very emotional, heartfelt speech from Andy Serkis about the honor it was for him to direct the second unit on The Hobbit films and work with those amazing people, he dropped a few F-bombs as Gollum when asked to bring the voice out. “(Gollum) For fuck’s sake, do I have to? (Smeagol) You said you weren’t going to whore yourself! You said it! (Gollum) But when you sit in front of six thousand five hundred fucking people what are you going to do, precious?!?”



And that’ll about do it for the Hobbit panel/footage. Sorry, I editorialized a little bit more than I intended to, but I couldn’t help myself. I’m a geek, sue me.

That also brings my panel coverage from Comic-Con 2012 to a close. I hope you guys enjoyed following along. I have a couple interviews hitting next week and I know Capone has a shit-ton more posting from his Con craziness!

Oh, and if you were following my An Unexpected Journey posts from the set of The Hobbit… well, let’s just say next week I’ll be getting the ol’ fingers nice and limber and doing some writing. Stay tuned!

-Eric Vespe
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Readers Talkback
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  • July 17, 2012, 1:12 a.m. CST

    At last! :)

    by Talkbacker with no name

  • July 17, 2012, 1:12 a.m. CST


    by Longtime Lurker

    Yay :)

  • July 17, 2012, 1:14 a.m. CST

    One of you is certainly disappointed

    by FrodoFraggins

  • July 17, 2012, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Bilbo Baggins = Jamie Kennedy

    by Fa Fa Fooey

    You know, that sick baby calf look.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:27 a.m. CST

    Tolkien is no longer relevant in our post Game of Thrones world

    by Bitchassmother

    Just sayin.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:30 a.m. CST

    Quint”, no footage of Beorn in bear form?

    by Talkbacker with no name

    and do you know if they are going with man in a suit or cgi?

  • July 17, 2012, 1:31 a.m. CST

    I hope this is great.

    by tomandshell

    I want it to be great.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:32 a.m. CST

    how can the Tolkien Estate hate the movies?

    by bowtiehoon

    I don't get it? Peter Jackson hasn't changed the story too much...These movies do nothing but increase the worlds awareness of Tolkien's works. Do they think they can produce better versions? Or is it simply sad bitterness from then New Line screwed them in the past?

  • July 17, 2012, 1:35 a.m. CST

    Ahh yes.

    by Hyphin

    Glad to see this up. Honestly, I'm fantastically excited for TDKR this week. But for me, The Hobbit is easily the most anticipated movie of the year, and frankly, EVER, since The Return of the King.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:36 a.m. CST

    I was a bit disappointed ...

    by Doctor Bumhole

    hearing that they've abandoned using miniatures this time around in favor of cgi. Still, the rest of it sounds great.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:37 a.m. CST

    It honestly saddens me...

    by Hyphin

    To think that there are those out there that compare George R. R. Martin, or his works, to Tolkiens'. Game of Thrones is fun, I guess. But it's very immature, and childish, regardless of how much sex, violence and gloom he tries to throw in. To each their own, though. I ain't hatin'.

  • I might be misreading that, and if I am, then I am. But I was so excited to see that panel and when Peter Jackson moved the moderator out of the way it felt like a power move. Also, the Andy Serkis speech felt really forced.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:47 a.m. CST


    by Talkbacker with no name

    As long as these Tolkien clones are being made and doing well, Tolkien will always be relevant.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:51 a.m. CST

    redmammoth, you are misreading it

    by Talkbacker with no name

    Not everyone gets Freeman's dry, sarcastic nature.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:58 a.m. CST

    @talkbacker with no name: Were you at SDCC?

    by Gus

  • July 17, 2012, 2:04 a.m. CST


    by Talkbacker with no name

    No but I watched the panel on youtube Arrogant is a bit strong. They all seemed a little bit awkward, but I think you can put that down to being overwhelmed by the crowd and a bit nervious.

  • July 17, 2012, 2:09 a.m. CST

    Gollum is the worst part of those movies.

    by Liquid Meddle

    I grew up with the cartoon, always thought of Gollum looking like that. More reptilian. It saddened me to see concept art for the movie that reflected the cartoon Gollum's appearance. It shouldn't have EVER been a completely CGI'd character. It was done to show off the technology, just like Jar Jar Binks, etc. I'll never get over them turning Gollum into this completely ridiculous caveman with over-sized limbs. It doesn't look real, it doesn't look like anything a real person (or Hobbit) would morph into. /endgripe

  • Just to get it out of the way, I'm a fan of both GoT and LOTR. I haven't read George R.R. Martin's books, but I am a fan of the HBO adaptation of GoT. I've read both The Hobbit and LOTR, as well as seen and enjoyed Peter Jackson's film adaptations of Tolkien's LOTR. To say GoT is childish next to LOTR is like saying The Terminator is childish next to Star Wars because The Terminator has tits and violence in it. People don't look at GoT as being more "adult" because of the sex and violence. To me it is that GoT is more grey, while LOTR is more black & white in how it portrays good versus evil. The characters in GoT aren't necessarily shown as either heroes or villains, as we the audience have to make up our minds who we will root for. Hell, look at another current show, Breaking Bad, and you'll get this same effect. Both good guys and bad guys are interesting and well developed but realistic characters. Now, not to crap on LOTR, but it is less nuanced in these areas. That isn't a bad thing though, as LOTR's strength is its more mythic nature and approach to story and character. LOTR is epic, and is great cinematic entertainment. Adapting GoT to a Hollywood movie trilogy format wouldn't be that satisfying. They are different beasts surely, but neither is actually childish IMO.

  • "were you intimidated by the role?" question from the audience and his response versus the footage of him doing the karate chops with the stunt guys.

  • July 17, 2012, 2:16 a.m. CST

    liquid meddle

    by starlesswinter7

    I don't think Gollum is unrealistic at all, but if you want him to appear so, how would looking more reptilian make any sense? Living underground does not make one look like a frog.

  • July 17, 2012, 2:22 a.m. CST

    needed to have a little feminine energy

    by Horace Cox

    For fuck's sake. The story has resonated with readers *as is* for nearly 75 years, but she thinks she can improve it by adding something no one felt was missing? What an arrogant twit.

  • July 17, 2012, 2:23 a.m. CST

    Scrooge McDuck in the house!

    by Windowlicker74

    so that's what you call him overthere. here it's Dagobert Duck

  • July 17, 2012, 2:26 a.m. CST


    by Talkbacker with no name

    I'm a sarky brit too, so I guess I'm used to it. But I can see how it would come across that way. The footage I watched, the guy filming it made the comment "what a classy guy" (not in a sarcastic way) after Freeman answered the question. We all read people differently I guess. Would have loved to have seen the footage. You lucky boy! :)

  • July 17, 2012, 2:29 a.m. CST

    Practical creature effects would have sufficed..

    by Liquid Meddle

    Does it make more sense to you that he looks like some distorted bodied man child? The book even describes him as a "slimy creature," a "starved frog," with big yellow eyes that shine in the dark. I loved that character as a kid, but it is the single dumbest and most annoying part of these movies.

  • July 17, 2012, 2:32 a.m. CST

    Regardless, I'm still really excited for The Hobbit.

    by Liquid Meddle

  • July 17, 2012, 2:38 a.m. CST

    Yes, Gollum does make sense to me.

    by starlesswinter7

    And that's because they showed what he looked like as a hobbit. His final Gollum form is truly a distortion of that - which is exactly what the Ring does to someone. His eyes would be larger because of his adjustment to living underground for hundreds of years. His feet are already large because he was a hobbit. Also keep in mind that Tolkien was describing Gollum as a different creature when he wrote the Hobbit. He didn't have his backstory thought out at that time. A frog creature might have sufficed then, but once he wrote LOTR, it doesn't make as much sense. And regardless of what it's "supposed" to look like, Gollum's design is great and now iconic.

  • July 17, 2012, 2:42 a.m. CST


    by Hyphin

    Maybe childish is too strong a word. Truth is, I actually agree with all that. I have read all the Fire and Ice (GoT) books so far, and I actually don't think they're bad either. Obviously, I'm much more a LOTR fan, but like I said, I don't hate on GoT. Actually, I love the show. A lot. But here's the thing. I feel like fans get into the idea that it's 'grayer'. Sure, absolutely, and that's a very good aspect to the story. I love that part of it. But- ugh, I feel a bit like a prude/wuss typing this out and reading it back, but- I just don't care for the amount of rape, prostitution and detailed sex acts that pop up in almost every single chapter. Of course, this may be unfair, but it just makes me think of a horny man writing stories for his horny fans that loved LOTR and fantasy in general as kids, and have always dreamed of getting the erotic version. Is that too brutal? Like I said, maybe, but that's where I get the whole 'immature' thing from. I can't seem to shake the feeling it's less enlightened than we all think it is, and more about the sex. By all means, bring that stuff into the story, make it something that motivates characters and blurs the line between good and evil, but- does it have to be so constant and gratuitous? I really love the show. I do. And maybe I'm wrong, but it's because I feel like it's more balanced in this regard, especially in the second season. Again, I hate reading the shit trolls say on these boards, trying destroy things people like. GoT is clearly very popular and, in many ways, I feel deservedly so. But I can't shake the idea that it's kinda immature. And I haven't even mentioned the writing style of the GoT books, versus that of Tolkien. Anyway. I'm sure you've read 'Of Beren and Luthien'. To me, that's just one prime example as to whether or not GoT and LOTR could, or should, ever be compared.

  • July 17, 2012, 2:48 a.m. CST

    So the ring couldn't have distorted him into more of a creature?

    by Liquid Meddle

    It's a fantasy novel we're talking about. The ring could have mutated his appearance the other direction just as easily and believably. He's hundreds of years old, too. Look at his hands and head -- just silly. Yes, he's emaciated like the book's description (and pale) but he's comic relief and surely his goofy appearance coincides with it. Still sucks.

  • July 17, 2012, 3:21 a.m. CST

    Gollum was a hobbit, not a frog

    by The_Red_Avenger

    Liquid Mettle. The Rankin Bass description of Gollum was an abomination. The only reference to frog is "like a starved frog" and that comes from Shagrat who also describes him "like a spider" when Dam overheats the Orcs in Cirith Ungol. Smeagol was a hobbit, a Stoor in fact. A the Ring did was prolong his life. He became the creature Gollum not through metamorphos but by having his life stretched. His eyes grew big as to living in the dark. He was slimy because he lived in a dark cave on an island in a lake with no sunlight. He was not a frog. By the same logic you are really going to be dissappointed with the Elf King who RB portrayed as a squat goblin like creature which was incredibly wrong too. Both abominations and insults to Tolkien. Even if you go back to the earliest illustrations of Gollum (way before Rankin Bass) he never appears as a frog. Just a very thin emacited creature with splayed hands and feet and big luminous eyes as Tolkien described him and most definitely not a frog. Even Ralph Bakshi got Gollum right and there are many things he got wrong (Viking Boromir amongst them)

  • July 17, 2012, 3:24 a.m. CST

    Damn you Autocorrect

    by The_Red_Avenger

    Sam not Dam. Meddle not Mettle

  • July 17, 2012, 3:46 a.m. CST

    I'm not saying he has to look like a frog.

    by Liquid Meddle

    Or even that every creature or character should look like the cartoon, I'm just stating that I think the movie Gollum is completely retarded and they could've done better, reptilian-esque appearance or not.

  • July 17, 2012, 3:47 a.m. CST

    Tolkien Estate

    by kwisatzhaderach

    They hate the movies because Jackson had the nerve to rewrite Tolkien. Tolkien's writing is sacred to the family, so how do you think they reacted upon seeing Liv Tyler rescuing Frodo from the Black Riders at the ford, or the warg attack in Two Towers and Aragorn being dragged over a cliff? Or Liv Tyler deciding to give up on Aragorn and leave Middle Earth, only to change her mind because she sees in a dream that they have a child together? None of thoise changes improved upon the storyline in the books, and that last change is an affront to Tolkien, who saw he and his wife as Beren and Luthien. Anybody who has read the books knows that those changes were ridiculous and damning to Tolkien's intricate mythology, i'm just surprised the Tolkien estate didn't publically call for Jackson's head.

  • Booo fucking hoo, get a real fucking job. You got city hands Mr Vespe, ya been countin' money all your life.

  • July 17, 2012, 3:56 a.m. CST

    Smeagol does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    A brief description in a written book has to be translated into a visual form on the cinema screen - and this is informed not just by that tiny description *frog like* or whatever the words may be, it is also informed by the character of the character! In the case of Gollum, he is a wizened century old Hobbit like creature that has not seen sunlight. He is also quite implicitly a junkie. I think his appearance in the movies is SPOT ON. Still the best CG character by a country mile. That moonlit exchange where Frodo confronts Gollum, and says *you were not so different from a Hobbit once...Smeagol* And that slow moment of recognition when Gollum hears that name again... wow gives me chills. Amazing performance from Serkis and from the animators.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:02 a.m. CST

    Your love of CGI characters does not exist in this dojo.

    by Liquid Meddle

    Gollum and Jar Jar Binks smoke crack and worship Satan. Also, Peter Jackson raped by childhood and stole my frog.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:05 a.m. CST

    LOTR is a bit bloated and that causes it to lose energy at times

    by antonphd

    GOT suffers from the same issue IF GOT did not, then MAYBE it will be in the same class as LOTR. but since it does, the LOTR remains in a class of it's own. the first and the greatest modern fantasy epic. no other series approaches either of these book series imo.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:16 a.m. CST

    *It’s a beautifully written *

    by Carl

    Yeah right. I'm sure it's just as amazing as he previous 2 and 1/3 films. *eyes*<p> Hackson to all: "Hey folks I have a GREAT idea. Let's just rewrite the entire story, take out stuff, AND put in stuff that is about as imaginative as a plus symbol! And don't forget I want my action either in super duper slo-mo, or so close and frantic you can't tell who's hitting who THIS IS GREAT! And we have a plethora of Dwarves to toss this time! AND RULE NUMBER ONE: I want no character even remotely resembling their character in the novel!!!! "<p> How this fool ever got the gig is mind boggling.<p> PS from Peter the Story Killer: "I don't want to show the fate of any major character this time! Lets just show them all walking randomly! BATTLE OF THE FIVE ARMIES!!! Since not showing the Scouring of the Shire went over so well with people who read the novel."<p> Wyle E Cote...Super........WAIT..I'll not insult Wyle E by making a comparison.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:38 a.m. CST

    gettingeven - what movies have you directed?

    by antonphd

    let's examine them together

  • July 17, 2012, 4:39 a.m. CST

    ("how can the Tolkien Estate hate the movies?

    by Todd1700

  • July 17, 2012, 4:47 a.m. CST

    gettingeven, I don't get people like you

    by Talkbacker with no name

    You don't like the movies. I get that, but it's an ADAPTATION. Not the first and won't be the last. I really don't understand the mentality that these films replace or lord over the books in any way. You don't like em? Don't watch them! Go and read the books again and make your own version in your head. Or do what all the other loud mouths do here, and line up opening day with the rest of us, just so you can bitch about it, completely oblivious to the fact you are contributing to the making of them. I bet you own at least one of them on dvd.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:55 a.m. CST

    That Kiwi Hack is not getting another Aussie dollar out of me.

    by Bloodhound

    Eventually, somebody be will get LOTR right. So perhaps there is something good to Hollywood's endless reboots after all. What will take after The Hobbit et al? Maybe a decade? Who knows, maybe the fans will even get it right before then in a bootleg. That would be more than that Kiwi hack's efforts.

  • July 17, 2012, 5:03 a.m. CST

    ("how can the Tolkien Estate hate the movies?")

    by Todd1700

    Because Christopher Tolkien the executor of that estate is quite possibly the most pretentious dick that has ever drawn breath on the face of the earth. Ever heard of the concept of "art for arts sake"? Well Christopher is a "cunt for cunts sake". The fact that he happend to drop out of a particular womans vagina that placed him in a position to, at least in some small way, piss on a large portion of society that would love to see more of his fathers works brought to the big screen thrills him to no end. Every time he thinks of all the people who will reach the end of their lives and die without seeing something like the Silmarillion made into a movie it causes him to get a little smile on his face. Later he goes home and masturbates while thinking of it. That clear it up fpr you?

  • July 17, 2012, 5:20 a.m. CST

    So, basically ...

    by not_the_real

    Christopher Tolkien is Alan Moore without the negligible talent (and most of the hair).

  • July 17, 2012, 5:22 a.m. CST

    *Smaug’s layer* = *lair*

    by justmyluck

  • July 17, 2012, 5:26 a.m. CST

    The only hope.....

    by Todd1700 that C. Tolkien has to be in his late 80's and maybe we will all out live his ass. But it's not a certainty. His pure burning hatred of any of us that has ever enjoyed a movie or animated feature based on his fathers works has kept him alive this long and may keep him going well past 100. Hell, it make keep him living beyond the grave. Then there is also the possibility that he has brainwashed his children into this same obsessive hatred. Or by pure genetic chance they may have all turned out to be the same type of obstructionist wanker oxygen thieves as their father.

  • July 17, 2012, 5:30 a.m. CST

    Thoughts on the Tolkien Estate

    by AstroNerdBoy

    Coming from a heavy anime/manga background, many anime titles made are actually adaptations of either manga titles, or of some light novel franchise. There have been a few manga artists who agreed to have their work adapted into anime form, then when the final anime product came out, they were displeased, or even angry, about the anime adaptation. Usually, it was because while the anime adaptation was pretty faithful, there were certain changes made which the manga authors strongly believe should not have been changed, and thus the anime adaptation is not telling the story their manga told. That's how I see it with the Tolkien Estate. While I enjoy the three LotR movies, there are things that disappoint me. For starters, Gandalf is a neutered character there, unlike the badarse he is in the novels. As I've said before, it was Gandalf in the novels that made me play the wizard character in D&D, and most recently in the PC game "Skyrim," I got to play my ultimate, Galdalf-like wizard character. So, assuming the Tolkien Estate viewed the character of Gandalf the way I did, then I can see them being so upset by this that they don't want Peter Jackson having anything else to do with the materials they have 100% control over. They may feel ultra protective of J.R.R. Tolkien's creation and want any movie adaptations be be more faithful to the originals, not just in story, but in characters as well. Granted, that's just speculation, but people are people and attitudes about original works vs. other medium adaptations remain constant from what I've seen (at least amongst those highly protective of the original work). I know I've read that some in the Tolkien Estate may not have wanted the movies done at all, which would be a shame. Well, all of this would be a mute point if our copyright laws hadn't gone insane to protect Disney. We'd have stuff going into the public domain where anyone could create a any kind of adaptation for Mr. Tolkien's works.

  • July 17, 2012, 5:31 a.m. CST

    Tolkien's grandchildren

    by not_the_real

    (which itself sounds like a gothic horror story worthy of some truly awful film-making) weren't there stories a few years back that there was a rift between Christopher and his own son over the films? Apparently the son was in support of the ideas (probably seeing some future in pouring a few more gold coins into the family coffers from the $$$$ related to to the films).

  • July 17, 2012, 5:36 a.m. CST


    by D.Vader

    I was beginning to think there was NOTHING of interest at the Hobbit panel other than the 3rd movie speculation!

  • July 17, 2012, 5:59 a.m. CST

    Stone giant?

    by D.Vader

    What is that?!

  • July 17, 2012, 6:02 a.m. CST

    ' Someday, somebody will do LOTR right. '

    by DocPazuzu

    To paraphrase Dennis Hopper in Land of the Dead: "Talkbackers, man, creep me the fuck out." It's a hoary old cliché, but I truly don't whether to laugh or cry when I listen to some of you useless, armchair directors. Incredible.

  • July 17, 2012, 6:28 a.m. CST

    Don't be too hard on Christopher Tolkien...

    by Scrunchie-Scroochie

    It's important to remember that he is largely bitter because (and let's not forget this) New Line Cinema acted like utter fuckers by not giving the Tokien Estate its share of the profits from the LotR films, as dictated by the contract. This led to a bitter legal war that lasted years (and significantly delayed the Hobbit film's production). Don't you think, if New Line had played nice and played legally from the start, that maybe Christopher would have kept his personal thoughts about the films to himself, and maybe, just maybe have allowed Jackson and co. rights to Tolkien's other writing? As it stands, all of the material in the following is currently held by the Tolkien Estate and cannot be filmed: The Silmarillion Unfinished Tales The History of Middle-earth The Children of Hurin It's an utterly, mind-bogglingly vast amount of content, and to think that I may not ever see it filmed is...ugh :(

  • July 17, 2012, 6:29 a.m. CST


    by Todd1700

    I am a complete Tolkien geek. That being the case I would love a complete page by page filming of the LOTR even though that would mean a 70 hour movie. But I am also tuned into this concept called "reality". You should give it a shot. It clues you in to what is actually possible and practical in the real world. People already bitched about ROTK being too long and having 5 places it could have ended but didn't and you want to include the scouring of the Shire? To do it justice you are talking about adding another 30 minutes to an already three and a half hour movie. Not to mention how anti-climactic it would seem to the average person being that it comes well after the epic battles surrounding the destruction of the ring, Sauron and his armies. I would have loved it. But I am not delusional enough to think it would have been well received by the general public. Movie theaters hate 3 hour movies with a purple passion as it is. It is nothing short of a miracle that PJ was allowed to make 3 movies of this length or longer to bring this story to the screen. Asking for more time would probably not have gone over well. As for the changes that Jackson made to the story? Yeah, I could nitpick. I didn't care for the expanded Arwen story but it's not like she is a made up character. Basically she took Glorfindels place as the one who meets Aragorn and the hobbits on the road to Rivendell. Though it wouldn't have been my choice I guess it spared them explaining why this incredibly powerful elf lord (Glorfindel) who is apparently the only person to ever kill a modern incarnation of a Balrog single handedly and who is equal even to Elrond in power (according to Tolkien) shows up one time in the story and then never helps out again. Obviously PJ is not the only person to see this as a problem. In the animated Ranking/Bass version of the LOTR they gave Glorfindels role to Legolas.

  • July 17, 2012, 6:33 a.m. CST

    @Liquid meddle

    by Aidil_Afham

    Gollum? Comic relief?! At which part does he burst into a joke or slipped on a banana? Just because you were laughing at him doesn't make him a comic relief. He's a tragic character, complex in his motivation, evil but fearful, and a sad end to his tale. He was evolved physically by the ring and prolonged life underground, why would you argue that a Hobbit shouldn't ever change like that, yet you want a more reptilian creature,

  • July 17, 2012, 6:38 a.m. CST

    My favorite malcontent right now...

    by DocPazuzu liquid meddle. Here's a guy who thinks the movie version of Gollum is "unrealistic" and wants a more froglike or reptilian creature. When called on the absurdity of this, he says "it's fantasy", where anything is possible. How can you not love someone with such retarded reasoning? This guy... Come here, you! *gives liquid meddle a noogie*

  • July 17, 2012, 6:41 a.m. CST

    d.vader, re. stone giants

    by Scrunchie-Scroochie

    When he peeped out in the lightning-flashes, he saw that across the valley the stone-giants were out, and were hurling rocks at one another for a game, and catching them, and tossing them down into the darkness where they smashed among the trees far below, or splintered into little bits with a bang.

  • Can't sign your work over to someone else to adapt and then bitch about it after if it doesn't turn out how you would have done it or wanted it to be. I too don't agree with some of the changes Jackson made, but they are what they are. While still being works of art at one level, they are also commerical products. They have to be if a major studio is putting up 300 mil for them. Imagine what it could have been if some dodgy fuck in the german film industry had got the rights and hired their friend Uwe Boll to direct them? Tolkien fans should be (and most are) happy. Us Robert E. Howard fans haven't had it so lucky!

  • July 17, 2012, 6:43 a.m. CST

    d.vader, err i wrote more than that

    by Scrunchie-Scroochie

    but for some fucking wierd reason this shitty messageboard ate the rest...

  • July 17, 2012, 6:44 a.m. CST

    but that's more or less what was ever written about them by tolkien

    by Scrunchie-Scroochie


  • July 17, 2012, 7:03 a.m. CST

    Misty Mountains must be in LA, what with that Smaug Layer.

    by Perigee

  • July 17, 2012, 7:10 a.m. CST

    Without Christopher Tolkien we wouldn't have "The Silmarillion".

    by Left_Nut

    At least not in the form it now exists. Show some fucking respect.

  • July 17, 2012, 7:18 a.m. CST

    Gollum mtv award speach still makes me laugh!...

    by cameron

    Gollum'You don't have any friends..' Smaegol 'Dobby's my friend...' Gollum'DOBBY, DOBBY'S A FUCKING FUCK!'

  • July 17, 2012, 7:21 a.m. CST

    Fuck Phillipa Boyens

    by Nick Hansen

    Blah blah blah 'we wanted to have a child birth in the battle of the two towers so there was some feminine energy' blah blah blah blah blah we created Jar Jar- sorry fricken TAUREIL???? So we could have feminine energy???!!! Bah She always says and wants the dumbest shit. Go back to Napier or wherever the fuck you came from you annoying middle aged kiwi woman. Seriously she's the worst part of Peter's creative team

  • July 17, 2012, 7:23 a.m. CST

    Red Avenger

    by FluffyUnbound

    We're talking about a fantasy universe where the power of Melkor / Morgoth can turn elves into orcs. If Gollum was just a dirty hobbit, were the orcs just elves who needed a bath? Based on the totality of Gollum's depiction over both THE HOBBIT and THE LORD OF THE RINGS there's very little doubt that Tolkien intended us to visualize Gollum as having been physically corrupted and malformed by the power of the Ring.

  • July 17, 2012, 7:35 a.m. CST

    One thing Jackson did well for me...

    by NightArrows

    ...was to take Boromir and make him a sympathetic character, at least in how I viewed him compared to the books. Though I'm sure much of that can be credited to Sean Bean who is such a great actor. Jackson also made Gollum so very easy to hate. I had ZERO sympathy for that little fucker during the films. One thing I will never forgive Jackson for is fucking with Faramir's character and that retarded scene where Frodo shows the fucking Ring Wraith the goddamn ring at Osgiliath. Not to mention that a little arrow scared the wraith off. Fucking absurd. As for the Hobbit, I'm not very amped up for it (them), I'm sure I will enjoy them once my ass is in the seat. I'm just weary of Jackson and his self-indulgence. He needs a stronger voice telling him to cut out the nonsense. Kong was a prime example of a film that could have been incredible, instead of an ok film showcasing incredible moments.

  • July 17, 2012, 7:37 a.m. CST

    "Some feminine energy"???

    by NightArrows

    FUCK OFF. I'd never read that...what a twat...

  • July 17, 2012, 7:40 a.m. CST

    @todd1700...I wasn't asking for a page by page adaption.

    by Carl

    Years ago I had a list compiled of all the stupid CHANGES to both events and characters; as well as stuff that was left out ,only to be replaced by Hacksons own stupid material. There's no excuse for that with this novel. <p> Coupled with Hacksons terrible direction, horrible fight scenes, and the constant 'slo mo drama', I just don't think they deserve the praise they get.I'm 48, I doubt very highly another film adaption gets made in the time I have left. <p> Meanwhile, I said it before and I'll say it again; The Pirates Trilogy of MOVIES was FAR superior in every way imaginable : Acting, Directing, Cinematography, Writing, Epic Scale, Story, FX. <p> As Geoffrey Rush, the style and feel of these films are like Dickens. <p> If you like the LotR films, you're blessed, because it's prob the adaptions for at least 25 years. Good for you.

  • I enjoyed the POTC movies for the dumb fun they were but better than the LOTR movies? Lord have mercy son put the crack pipe down and slowly back away.

  • July 17, 2012, 7:46 a.m. CST


    by NightArrows

    I have my problems with the LOTR trilogy, but in no universe ANYWHERE, are the "pirate" films better...The first one was good at first, the rest were ok to terrible, and none of them have aged well at all...

  • July 17, 2012, 7:48 a.m. CST

    What todd1700 said...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...with bells on. Seriously, what is wrong with some of you?

  • July 17, 2012, 7:50 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    *I'm 48, I doubt very highly another film adaption gets made in the time I have left.* gettingeven, well you probably shouldnt be wasting the time you have left making lists of things that *Hackson* did wrong. And you rate the PIRATES movies better than LOTR? You may be 48 but sounds like your mental age is closer to 14.

  • July 17, 2012, 7:53 a.m. CST

    POTC films better

    by KGersen

    Jesus wept.... the 1st film was unexpectedly quite good fun. The rest become progressively more unwatchable to the point where the I couldn't get through more than 15 minutes of the last one. Based on this I think I'll give your views on LOTRs a real wide berth.

  • July 17, 2012, 7:58 a.m. CST

    gettingeven, you are 48 and can't have an adult conversation and use correct names?

    by Talkbacker with no name

    You might as well go full out and call him Mr Jar jar jackson poo poo head or something, if you really don't want anyone to take you seriously. The pirate movies are far superior? haha fuck off are you 48...if you really are, then I apologise for hacking on such a mentally challenged man baby. "like Dickens" hehe

  • Hey, we all wanted them to be great. Just because I hold a low opinion of them, doesn't mean I didn't give them a chance. <p> Unfortunately, Hacksons "vision" was still just not in line with the *feel* of the books.The story changes and omissions, the character changes.....NONE of it was necessary. Sure you can't film everything, but to take things out and replace it with his crap enraged me.When I saw what they did to Faramir, I let loose with a pretty loud "Oh fuck OFF!". I'm not the type to disturb a theatre normally. But some ppl<p> And even tho I'm beating a dead horse , his direction on these films just plain sucked. He was trying too hard to 'feel' epic, and it was obvious.<p> NO.....I will not be "lining up with the rest of you". That snake bit me already. I'll check out the DVD's on rental. <p> Not that it matters or not, but I gave each fim a solid 7. <p> They also have ZERO repeat viewing value for me. So......when there's a topic concerning them, I speak my opinion again, just like people who like them do. I'm pretty sure that's what message boards are for. <p> I always seem to like a popular directors/actors most hated films. Lovely Bones....Jersey Girl...Diary of the Dead.....Stranger Than Fiction......50 First Dates........Daredevil......The Last Airbender.... Lost in Space...on and on.<p> Whatever. That's entertainment.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:12 a.m. CST

    They have a Cave Troll

    by Scrunchie-Scroochie

    seriously guys, gettingeven is obviously a troll. Don't feed the troll.

  • I fucking hope something horrible and long lasting happens to you or someone you care about real soon. New born? Hope it chokes dead. Pet? Hope it gets run over . Parents? Hope they fucking burn to death. Fucking people all oughta be put up against The Wall.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:15 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    Please... just... stop....

  • It was actually the other way around you fucking cunt.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:20 a.m. CST

    New born? Hope it chokes dead.

    by DocPazuzu

    Well that escalated quickly. Even for talkback.

  • So..I'll stop nothing, and this is the only reply you will ever get from me. But being a twat, you'll try and troll me anyway.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:25 a.m. CST

    So remember, kids...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...if someone thinks you have a terrible taste in movies, it's perfectly okay to wish their children and parents dead. I mean it IS movies we're talking about, after all.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:27 a.m. CST


    by KGersen

    hehehe, good reminder there. I hope this gettingeven character is a troll, because otherwise he sounds like a lunatic.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:27 a.m. CST

    haha I love this character gettingeven has created here

    by Talkbacker with no name

    48 year old man. Hates Lord of the Rings, but loves the pirates movies, Daredevil and The Last Airbender. Calls Jackson, "hackson", but owes all of the extended edtions of the movies he hates. Brilliant! Bravo! *Applauds*

  • July 17, 2012, 8:33 a.m. CST

    Gandalf the White...

    by bah

    Gandalf the FOOL!!!

  • July 17, 2012, 8:37 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    What you hilariously fail to realize is that Frank, based on your taste in movies, would put a bullet in your head before he put one in ours.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:39 a.m. CST

    Geek Superbowl indeed!!

    by ATARI

    Thanks for the writeup, Quint.<br> <br> Looking forward to the Hobbit set post next week.<br> <br>

  • July 17, 2012, 8:40 a.m. CST


    by Talkbacker with no name

    and his new born

  • July 17, 2012, 8:48 a.m. CST

    I really hope gettingeven is a troll... seriously

    by Elwood Blues

    Please be a troll... otherwise my faith in mankind will drop another level.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:54 a.m. CST

    watching tolkien is way more enjoyable than reading him

    by nephilim138

    He created classic characters but really couldn't right for shit. Just alot of filler stuffed into a fairly thin story. Never got all the worship for the dude.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:56 a.m. CST

    This is getting really ugly

    by Christian

    This gettingeven-guy MUST be a troll because otherwise it's pretty creepy. Totaly incoherent, raging on a retarded level, loves movies that are on an objective level (as much as you can get when talking about art) terrible, issuing awful threats when criticized, 48 years old and resorting to childish name-calling. Disturbing. As for the LOTR movies I get that some people are irritated by the changes PJ made but, to me at least, the one thing he really did well was to capture the spirit of the books.

  • July 17, 2012, 9 a.m. CST

    I've been waiting for this since I was 10 years old!

    by cloverock70

    I can remember the first time I read The Hobbit...I was probably 10 or 11 and loved it right from the start. I've read it so many times in the 30 years since then that I've lost count. As silly as it sounds this article kind of got me choked up a little. I know it's a little melodramatic, but I am thankful to be alive to see this become a movie, and especially thankful that someone who actually seems to care about the source material is making it happen. Super, super excited!!!!!!!

  • July 17, 2012, 9 a.m. CST

    As always, a great and heartfelt write-up!

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Great job, Quint!

  • July 17, 2012, 9:04 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    gettingeven, I thought bad taste in movies was your biggest problem. Whoa, talk about tip of the iceberg. I know that a geek internet forum isnt really the place to do this but... Seriously, from one human being to another. Have you considered seeking help? Book a session with a local psychiatrist and just talk about how you feel. It could be of benefit.

  • July 17, 2012, 9:08 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Hope the video diary is released... actually I also hope the 12 minutes of footage is leaked. Unlike many other films im really not bothered about spoilers on THE HOBBIT. I dont know if others feel the same bay, but already knowing the story plus having seen LOTR means im happy to spoil myself up and see as much as I can prior to the release date. BATMAN DARK KNIGHT RISES on the other hand... im avoiding reviews like the plague for the next few days!

  • July 17, 2012, 9:14 a.m. CST

    cobra--kai, yeah I feel the same bay

    by Talkbacker with no name

    I'd be quite happy to have it all spolied and I'd still go see it opening day

  • July 17, 2012, 9:19 a.m. CST

    why can't you all just ignore this gettingeven chap?

    by Scrunchie-Scroochie

    This talkback is strange - gettingeven is an obvious troll (or perhaps is actually retarded - if he is indeed 48 then mental retardation would seem the only explanation for the style and content of his posts). Just ignore him and carry on. (And yes, I am aware of the irony of telling people to ignore him in a post where I am doing anything but...)

  • Hey, you folks wanna act like arrogant, crude, rude and obnoxious assholes, I can one up you any day of the week and thrice on Sundays. Fuck off if you think I started shit. You are definitely some people who's buildings need planes flying into. LOL....and yet you'll still act so superior. That's what keeps me coming back........the true nature of humanity *COUGH* for all to see in all it's glory. Yet when someone acts in kind......of course they're the "troll" or whatever internet warrior term(s) you try and squeeze from your sunflower seed sized "brains". This is FUN. When you can process that, you might have an accident in your undies. Assuming you wear them, and assuming they aren't already filled with runners, you may or may not wish to be near a toilet.Assuming you use them.<p> And yet you'll never understand why. As smart as you want to think you are, you'll never be able to grasp the fact that you planted the seed(s). <p> Bunch of stuttering, blundering, know it all, high school thugs. Pardon me while I have to go be constructive for a while. Have fun acting like the school girls sewing circle while I'm away dawwwwwwwwlings :). <p> It's actually amazing some of you or all of you actually think you're fooling anyone.

  • July 17, 2012, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Pretty sure JRR himself would've been okay with the movies

    by MrBoinfoint

    He said somewhere once that his version of the Silmarillion was just that, *his* version. He envisioned it being told in other forms, some more complex, some with differing details, in songs, poems, illuminated verse, even, yes, plays and films. He was merely translating an archetypal myth for England, and he was okay with that myth being translated differently. What he didn't want was an approach that completely shit on the material, like, say, John Boorman's insane 'Bury Gimli in a hole and beat him until he unleashes tribal memories' version, or the Beatles as the Hobbits singing Beatles songs version. He probably would've winced at Bashki's severely truncated and simplistic version, especially his differently-abled Sam and Viking Boromir. And no doubt Jackson's penchant for taking things exactly ten percent too far into the realms of questionable taste would've rankled him. Yes, adding Dwarf-tossing and fart jokes was a mistake. Yes, the Warg attack and Aragorn cliff-diving was a mistake. Yes, tying Arwen's fate to the fate of Middle Earth was a mistake. He would be right to grouse about those changes. Faramir as a shady dick who becomes noble was a slight miscalculation but it was eventually pulled off, as was the Ents as befuddled old men, and Gollum actually forcing a wedge between Frodo and Sam. And he might grumble but he may also agree that *cinematically* they made sense as character-arcs. But I would hope that in the end he would realize that it is just another adaptation. Another entry in the long line of retellings of the tale. Certainly, the most successful and faithful of the cinematic adaptations. And yet. And yet... I have a felling I'm going to HATE Nesbitt's Bofur. Sounds like an overly talkative, jokey jackass. And bird shit on a Wizard's head? What the hell? That's Jackson's Ten Percent Problem again. Hopefully I'll be able to look past it because the other 90% will be full-on awesome.

  • July 17, 2012, 9:38 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    If you really are 48, you are either a psychopath or profoundly retarded. Maybe even both.

  • July 17, 2012, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Thank you, Scrunchie Scroochie

    by D.Vader

    I had forgotten all about that more fantastical scene from the book. I wonder if we'll see any fairies, since Bilbo was rumored to be half-fairy. Or maybe even fairies are myth in this world.

  • July 17, 2012, 9:58 a.m. CST


    by D.Vader

    He's winning.

  • The BBC adaptation was the quintessential Gollum. Absolutely perfect. And it was all audio.

  • July 17, 2012, 10:17 a.m. CST

    Wow you guys sound like a bunch of misogynists

    by D.Vader

    "Feminine energy?! OH NOES!!!" You guys know there are zero females in The Hobbit. There's nothing wrong with adding one. Unless you're afraid of females, I guess.

  • July 17, 2012, 10:20 a.m. CST

    Someone is calling PJ "Hackson"?

    by D.Vader

    Oh brother, give me a break...

  • July 17, 2012, 10:23 a.m. CST

    GettingEven, you need to learn some reading comprehension

    by D.Vader

    You say you're 48, but you might be 14, bc I never said *anything* to you or about you before you called me "an arrogant fuckbag". You can't make yourself look good after that rookie mistake.

  • "So..I'll stop nothing, and this is the only reply you will ever get from me. But being a twat, you'll try and troll me anyway." Wow, GettingEven, insulting someone who hasn't even interacted with you? Calling someone out and insulting them before they've ever spoken to you? Yeeepppp that's called being a troll.

  • July 17, 2012, 10:31 a.m. CST


    by sirens

    What ya want, a rapping Wizard? Maybe a Beorn with southern accent? Altough there can be hundreds of black people in the movie, in the battle of 5 armies behind Orc maks.

  • July 17, 2012, 10:33 a.m. CST

    getting even

    by sirens

    made a mistake, and that is revealing his age, in connection to his behavior. He'll learn by time.

  • July 17, 2012, 10:41 a.m. CST

    GettingEven...I know who you are...

    by John

    Jersey Girl and Daredevil over LOTR? Tsk, Tsk Armond. I think it's time that you stopped trolling Mr. White and got back to your negative review of The Dark Knight Rises.

  • July 17, 2012, 10:42 a.m. CST

    What's wrong with 'a boy's story'?

    by kevred

    Just say you wanted to add something feminine to it to appeal to more people. Don't use "boy's story" as a pejorative. Flip the genders on that statement by Boyens, and the filmmakers would be roasted, and deservedly so. Boy's stories are beautiful things. They don't need to be disrespected and diminished, or deemed less worthy. Thank goodness I grew up when "boy's stories" were not just allowed, but celebrated. Still looking forward to this film, but I find that most new things I see or hear about it annoy me rather than intrigue me. I'm worried they're over-thinking it, and that a fresh take like Del Toro's would have been better.

  • I think she was just stating the obvious.

  • July 17, 2012, 11 a.m. CST

    In defence of is a handy guide

    by Scrunchie-Scroochie

    Because some people are having a tough time accepting the concept of Tauriel, here's a step-by-step guide to help you cope: 1) Read the fucking Hobbit book. 2) Note that there are Rivendell Elf women present at Rivendell, and also Silvan Elf women partying in Mirkwood. 3) Conclude that in order to adapt this book to the cinema you have to inevitably give speaking lines (and names) to some of the people that are only alluded to in the text, in order to make these scenes properly work in the cinematic medium. 4) Wait until December 14th, then sit back, shut up, and watch the fucking film. 5) (Optional) when you get home, sit in front of your computer, and do a google search for "Evangeline Lilly wearing corset". 6) Pull your trousers and underpants down, and proceed to wank yourself silly. (note that although step 5 is optional, this step is not).

  • July 17, 2012, 11:25 a.m. CST

    GettingEven = LOSER

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    My name is Mr. Nice Gaius... ...and I came here to party.

  • July 17, 2012, 11:27 a.m. CST

    Thank you scrunchie-scroochie

    by where_are_quints_hobbit_set_reports

    Girls??? in MY Hobbit movie??? Ewwwww, no way!!!

  • July 17, 2012, 11:29 a.m. CST

    creepy freaks bitching about LOTR films.

    by where_are_quints_hobbit_set_reports

    The Lord of the Rings movies are so awesome. There is no doubt they are the definitive film versions of these books. I don't need to agree with every single tiny choice PJ & co made, You complainers show your massively limited imaginations: you fixate like auties on tiny details that were changed from the books, but you can't seem to understand how massively wrong these films could have gone-- how many countless ways they could have been fucked up by how many other directors and studios. You have no imagination; you just cry because what you have been handed (thru the hard work of PJ and co) inevitably doesn't measure up to some make-believe version in your mind that no sane audience would ever enjoy. In fact, you just cry and complain regardless, because you are full of self-loathing that you're afraid to confront; your own inadequacies drive you to nitpick and criticize. You are unloved and unlovable, and when you finally realize that, your world will end. I'm super stoked for the Hobbit movies!!!!!

  • July 17, 2012, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Shit... this might end up being a long post.

    by Anthrax

    - Right off the bat, I'll second Vader's comment. I have absolutely zero problem with the character Tauriel's creation, and as long as she's an interesting character that serves the story well, it's all gravy. Why anyone would preemptively hate on just the concept of that character is beyond me. We haven't even seen a picture of the character yet. Perhaps the "purists" should wait before they fill their diapers this time. - Since we're already sort of on the subject, might as well get this out of the way: Tolkien "purists" are some of the most irritating folks on the planet. These people just have zero understanding of what it takes to adapt a book into a film. They also don't seem to understand the books they claim to love so much. If they did, they would understand that keeping Faramir the exact same would have never worked on film for multiple reasons, the biggest being the omission of Tom Bombadil. Without the precedent Bombadil set, Faramir's reaction to the ring would have gone over about as well as a wet fart. I truly dislike being lumped in with those kinds of people. - Getting Even went full retard. Good for him. - RE: Game of Thrones. I have sort of the same reaction to this show as Matt Stone and Trey Parker had to Family Guy. Certainly not as vitriolic, but similar. My friends kept bugging me: "C'mon dude, you read Tolkien constantly, there's no way you could hate GoT." So I gave in and watched the first two seasons. The show IS immature, and not nearly as smart as everyone wants it to be. I have a lot of trouble having any sort of respect for a writer or a group of writers who can't come up with a scene of exposition without awkward sex or nudity. The only thing that saves the show, in my estimation, is the infectiously watchable cast. Yes, I love Tolkien's Middle Earth. No, that does not mean that I'll take whatever juvenile tripe gets sent through the fantasy pipeline, simply because the author of the source material decided to ape the parts of LOTR that he liked the best. The two works are far from equal. - It was either Cobra Kai or Vader that said it, but I would agree that Gollum is the best CGI character I've seen on film. The Two Towers was on television the other day, and I was amazed at how photorealistic Gollum still appeared, despite the film's age. Much more believable and "real" than anything I saw in Avatar. - To the talkbacker who claimed that McKellen's Gandalf was a "neutered" version of the bad ass in the books: Um, what? The "purists" don't even have the gall to say anything negative about the film version of Gandalf. Know why? Because he's about 99.999 % the same from the books. Gandalf was always represented as a bit of a codger. I don't see how any valid complaint can be made here. - It wasn't said in this thread specifically, but there were comments a few days back regarding Peter Jackson's desire to shoot more stuff later in the year, and how the Hobbit's story could be told effectively in one film, let alone two or more. The truth is it can't. The Hobbit may be the shortest book in the Middle Earth legendarium, but it's packed to the brim with cool stuff. Having two films means it's less likely that your favorite moment from the book gets cut out, and that's a good thing. - Finally, with regards to Jackson's desire to shoot more... As long as it means we get to see The Battle of Azanulbizar on screen, I'm cool with it.

  • July 17, 2012, 11:47 a.m. CST

    Evangeline Lily in a corset...

    by D.Vader

    DEFINITELY excited for that.

  • July 17, 2012, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Cannot wait for The Hobbit.

    by donkey_lasher

    And the debate about whether Tolkein or his son or grandson would approve is pretty pointless seeing as the author signed away the rights back in the late 60's.

  • July 17, 2012, noon CST

    As if there wasn't enough crazy in here already...

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    People calling for the death of first-borns over disagreements about movies? Mind you, saying the insultingly lazy Pirates movies - perhaps the worst blockbuster series this side of Transformers - are better than the magisterial LOTR trilogy (flaws and all) probably does deserve death by firing squad, at the very least.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:04 p.m. CST

    And what's with the idiot who keeps proclaiming that Peter Jackson is a racist in every talkback?

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    Did you miss the black sailor and the Chinese cook in King Kong? Was Peter Jackson supposed to kowtow to affirmative action and put a black hobbit in LOTR, when the book was largely intended as a proto-European myth?

  • July 17, 2012, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Anthrax, that was cobra-Kai who mentioned Gollum

    by D.Vader

    I stayed out of that conversation. Gollum is one of best cgi characters to grace the silver screen. That much is obvious. I too love the scene where he hears his name for the first time in hundreds of years.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:11 p.m. CST

    Boooo, turd

    by D.Vader

    Say what you want about the Pirates movies, they are definitely NOT lazy.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Still a bit worried about the look

    by theswillmerchant

    I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen more people comment about the first scene they showed at the panel (the one with all the dwarves at the table). I thought that it looked way too much like a set and very digital. A couple people sitting around me in the Hall had the same comment. I think it could be fixed with color correction (the walls were mostly too bright) so hopefully, that was the issue and it can still be addressed. I still don't understand why they didn't just avoid changing the aesthetic from the LOTR movies and shoot film. The rest of the footage looked fine but it definitely will feel different than LOTR visually. I should also, mention that the scenes themselves were great.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:24 p.m. CST

    Oh, come on - 2, 3, and ESPECIALLY 4 were supremely lazy

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    The first was a pleasant enough little adventure that got tons of praise because it was based off a theme park ride and was actually somewhat worthwhile. But the further sequels were full of rehashed elements, Depp coasting through his role, and talk about convoluted plotting and padding! Yes, that's lazy! Big budgets, millions of FX shots, and three hour running times in and of themselves don't mean the filmmakers are trying. It means they are throwing everything and anything at the screen in the hope something sticks. Effort means detailed examination of the script and paring away all that rubbish to find what works. I have to say the fourth film, in particular, was one of the most boring things I've ever sat through in a theater -no action, no pace, and so leaden the screen seemed to be weighed down with molasses. Even Transformers 3 wasn't as bad - there were at least loud 'splosions there to keep me awake.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:27 p.m. CST

    My big problem with Jackson's LOTR...

    by Morte_Bea_Arthur

    isn't the larger story revisions, like Arwen and Faramir. Those I can understand, even if I don't always agree with them. Or even the stupid moments like farting or dwarf-tossing, although those do cheapen the whole experience and are not funny. It's the lame shit like jumping the collapsing stairs, wading through the giant waterfall of skull (extended version), or Legolas' extreme sports / superhero abilities. There have to be better ways to add action to a fantasy movie. These are all 100% Jackson's doing, not the writers. Given that, I still think that he gave us an adaption that was many times better than we had any reason to expect, based on all the fantasy movies that came before. I have to grit my teeth through those parts though. The Hobbit will probably be exactly the same. Jackson just can't help himself. To him, that's the "fun" part.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Nice poster!


    Looks very Hobbity....of course.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:40 p.m. CST

    There's some seriosuly spoiled bitches on this talkback

    by shane peterson

    Seriously. If you don't like the movies, go read the fucking novels over and over again and visualize the world of Tolkein in your mind. But the movies are adaptations. Books are rarely, if ever, translated from page to screen directly. There are always changes made. Why? Because one is literary and the other is cinematic. The two speak very different languages to the mind. So the stories have to be translated differently. I love the novels and PJ's LOTR for what they are: great novels and very good movies.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Agree about the Dwarf tossing and Legolas's superhero bits


    The dwarf tossing ruined Helms Deep. Took away all the tension and Legolas's surfing antics were stupid too.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Excluding 4, Turd...

    by D.Vader

    If the Pirates movies were lazy, they wouldn't have had such complex screenplays that confused some audience members regarding character motivations/betrayals/plans.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Game of Thrones is VERY Tolkien's still relevant bitchass.


  • July 17, 2012, 12:54 p.m. CST

    And George R.R. Martin sounds suspiciously like J.R.R. Tolkien.


    Martin should have just called himself George Martin but for some strange reason he decided to make himself sound all Tolkien like.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:54 p.m. CST

    d.vader the Pirates movies were convaluted, not complex.

    by shane peterson

  • July 17, 2012, 12:55 p.m. CST

    And not forgetting that stupid J.K. Rowling cow.


    And her stupid kiddie Potter books.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:57 p.m. CST

    In fact MOST fantasy is a rip off of LOTR.


    Tolkien was one of the first to do epic fantasy and most fantasy ever since has been poor imitations of LOTR.

  • July 17, 2012, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Nothing will ever match the imagination

    by thelordofhell

  • July 17, 2012, 1:02 p.m. CST

    Hey Vader, Turd...whats up guys? I am afraid

    by southafricanguy

    Turd..I have to side a bit with Vader....the POTC sequals (the Verbinski ones) were quite imaginative and had really great production design. If nothing could see every damn cent of their budget up on that screen (something I appreciate as often with these very expensive films I cannot tell what the fuck the money was spent on)...and they are good fun... for the 4th.....good god...was it terrible....absolutely fucking terrible...

  • July 17, 2012, 1:03 p.m. CST

    that being said...Turd, I agree that they are

    by southafricanguy

    still no-where near as good as the LOTR triliogy (flaws and all)....majestic and lyrical indeed...

  • July 17, 2012, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Complicated was the word I was looking for

    by D.Vader

    I don't feel it was convoluted. I Didn't have a hard time following it like some people did.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:06 p.m. CST

    The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

    by Liquid Meddle

    Lord of the Rings for big people!

  • July 17, 2012, 1:07 p.m. CST

    if I have any fear its Jackson being on top

    by southafricanguy

    of his game as post LOTR...Jackson took a dive for sure imho....KK was not bad, but certainly a very flawed film that was not as good as what it could have been (there is a good adventure film in there)....just too bloated, too long, too many sub plots going absolutely nowhere, and too many attempts to add depth the minor characters that never get seen again... However..KK was good compared to TLB...dear god...I am sorry but that film was so dull, so off target, so badly adapted from the book....very possibly Jackson's worst film...

  • July 17, 2012, 1:08 p.m. CST

    DVader....same here...I had no prob following

    by southafricanguy

    them either....never understood why so many people claim to have no idea what is going on...its very clear if you ask me...if you pay attention...

  • July 17, 2012, 1:11 p.m. CST

    I for one am looking very forward to Verbinski's

    by southafricanguy

    Lone Ranger...especially after how awsome Rango was....That dude "gets" the Western as a genre imho....I am very interested to see what a Western costing 250 million will look like directed by Verbinski....but maybe thats just me...

  • July 17, 2012, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Anyhoo....has anyone read Devin Farce's review

    by southafricanguy

    of DKR?.....anyone care to guess what he thinks of it?

  • July 17, 2012, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Turd...I am curious about your thoughts on

    by southafricanguy

    the whole 48 fps issue.....and about the possibilty of even higher frame rates than that...

  • July 17, 2012, 1:17 p.m. CST

    In addition

    by sirens

    Come on guys, let PJ put a little fun in here and there, there are also little boys and girls in the audience, they dont care about the adaption of the novel, they wanna have fun. Also girls wanna little love story here and there, a little romance and kissing. PJ isnt just here for you, you stubborn poopers!

  • July 17, 2012, 1:18 p.m. CST

    What up southafricanguy?

    by D.Vader

    Yah I loved Rango. Thought that was a fantastic little western homage for kids.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:18 p.m. CST

    oh southafricanguy, why did you have to mention 48 fps...

    by where_are_quints_hobbit_set_reports

    ...that'll trigger a whole fresh round of uninformed knee-jerk haterism...

  • July 17, 2012, 1:19 p.m. CST

    And southafricanguy

    by D.Vader

    As for Pirates, I'm in total agreement with you.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:20 p.m. CST

    I don't care one iota about Faraci

    by D.Vader

    Hes a crybaby. He writes posts hoping to incite argument and pretends he's better than everyone else. I don't care for him one it.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:28 p.m. CST

    daddylonghead, i guess because imreally

    by southafricanguy

    curious about it...but I dont know a lot about it myself....I dont really understand what Jackson and Cameron are trying to do exactly......And Turd usually really knows his shit...

  • July 17, 2012, 1:29 p.m. CST good bro...what u been up to?

    by southafricanguy

    still slaying trolls around these parts?

  • July 17, 2012, 1:30 p.m. CST

    I own the extended versions of all the Pirates films.

    by The Garbage Man

    Unfortunately, Hackbinski's "vision" was still just not in line with the *feel* of the theme park ride. The story changes and omissions, the character changes... NONE of it was necessary. Sure you can't film everything, but to take things out and replace it with his crap enraged me. When I saw what they did to the rapey animatronic pirate who chases the busty wench, I let loose with a pretty loud "Oh fuck OFF!". I'm not the type to disturb a theatre normally. But some ppl

  • July 17, 2012, 1:32 p.m. CST

    the garbage man.....hahahaha...dude

    by southafricanguy

    I was fucking laughing my ass off over sir...have post of the day...

  • July 17, 2012, 1:35 p.m. CST

    im still fucking laughing.....*stop to wipe tears

    by southafricanguy

    from my eyes*

  • July 17, 2012, 1:37 p.m. CST

    LOTR was for big people too liquid.


    I take it you mean adults? Well as I've said before the Hobbit was written as a kids story but Tolkien never wrote LOTR as a kids story. Thomas Covenant was good but even that drew quite a bit of inspiration from LOTR.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Yessir, southafricanguy

    by D.Vader

    Working on making another short film next month and in the meantime, yes I'm wielding my own Orcrist, the Goblin-Cleaver, to slay these trolls round here. How's Korea?

  • July 17, 2012, 1:38 p.m. CST

    The Garbage Man wins

    by D.Vader

    Classic work there, sir.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:38 p.m. CST

    Exactly, lordoflight.

    by Liquid Meddle

    Hence, "Lord of the Rings for big people."

  • July 17, 2012, 1:41 p.m. CST

    LOTR on the other hand, was not for big people.

    by Liquid Meddle

    It was for big kids. Smug, dry humored, English big kids.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:42 p.m. CST

    dvader...great news bro....korea is good

    by southafricanguy

    just damn hot and humid this time of year

  • July 17, 2012, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Phillipa Boyens is a Cunt

    by D. Quixote

  • July 17, 2012, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Wow....the AICN Asshole Club is out in force.

    by Carl

    The Lord of the Rings movies are so awesome. There is no doubt they are the definitive film versions of these books.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Bird shit on a Wizard

    by Ingeld

    And there it is. Jackson's treatment of Tolkien in a single sentence, a single image.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:51 p.m. CST


    by Morte_Bea_Arthur

    I don't mind fun or romance, I mind lame, unrealistic concepts. Yes, I know it's fantasy, but it's not the Matrix. Laws of physics (and good storytelling) still apply. Plus, I don't really think of LOTR as being for the young kids (<10), but I know they like to try and cram them into the demographic. Like I said, it doesn't ruin it for me. It would just be better without it.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Ignoring all the negativity in this thread,

    by frank

    I am freaking out with anticipation for these movies. Everything I have seen and heard so far has only served to increase my excitement. I also would love to see a 70-hour page-for-page adaptation of of LotR (and a 700 hour Silmarillion adaptation), but in the meantime I will just have to enjoy PJ’s fantastic adventure films. Namarie.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST

    It is not possible for any fantasy novel to ever touch LotR.

    by frank

    I love GRRM’s Song of Ice and Fire, but it is not in the same league as Tolkien, and neither is anything else. Tolkien created a fully-realized mythology for England to replace the one that was eradicated by the Norman invasion. No one else is going to top that.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    The Garbage Man, you took out the trash with that post - hahaha fucking classic!!

  • July 17, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST

    Bird shit on a Wizard =

    by Morte_Bea_Arthur

    my new awesome catchphrase

  • July 17, 2012, 1:58 p.m. CST

    @xeno_morpheus...BZZZT, wrong answer.

    by Carl

    I've been here since 1998 under various names. Yeah I've been banned a lot, because I upset the Silver Spooners.<p> My last handle was RedWhiteNegro. Before that I've been ..Nanaharas....Wnanahara7....and I think my first was RVZ77. Prob one or two more ...never a "Mr White".<p> Now I have some more life to attend to. Have fun storming the message boards internet warriors! You're just so impressive. No really. I'm totally serious.<p> Really. <p> So now I'm not allowed to like 50 First Dates or Daredevil either? Wow.....I better start looking for a gas mask and disentary medicine.

  • July 17, 2012, 1:59 p.m. CST

    What the fuck happened to my post?

    by Carl

    Ah fuck it, most of ya'll aint worth my time to retype all that. Fuck off.

  • July 17, 2012, 2 p.m. CST

    southafricanguy, I can't comment on 48/60 fps because I haven't seen it in action

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    But I will say I'm all for it, at least in theory, because I'm not very conservative at all when it comes to new technologies and innovations in cinema (many geeks are the opposite). I will absolutely be seeing The Hobbit in 48fps and 3D when I see it for the first time, and certainly not hedging my bets with a regular speed, 2D version. Some people might; to each their own. Now, as regards what we've heard so far on the issue, I don't think we can trust it because we know full well what the online film community is like. We ESPECIALLY can't trust Devin Farce's opinion of higher frame rates; that guy had a vendetta against them from the start and -surprise, surprise - his opinions were some of the most vitriolic. Really, anybody outside the group that saw the initial Hobbit presentation a few months back can't comment because that's all that's been shown at 48fps so far. There are people who claim to have seen older movies projected at higher frame rates on certain modern TV's, slating it for giving movies a weird sped-up, jerky quality. This doesn't count. That is a feature called TrueMotion, and it involves creating artificial intermediate frames that never existed in these 24fps movies in the first place, since they were never shot at a higher frame rate. This will definitely NOT be comparable to what Jackson and Cameron have planned, which will be a lot smoother and more natural.

  • July 17, 2012, 2:02 p.m. CST

    GettingEven, it's y'all, not ya'll

    by where_are_quints_hobbit_set_reports

    Pet peeve. Oh wait I hear a weird noise from the other room-- be right back, gotta go check on the baby...

  • July 17, 2012, 2:05 p.m. CST

    And, no, I certainly haven't read Farce's review of TDKR...

    by Turd_Is_Floating_Underneath_The_Gravy

    Although I gather it's scathing from what I've heard. I would never patronize that fat fuck's website ('Badass Digest' *snicker*) with my custom. He's such a miserable cunt that his reviews are no good even for comedic value.

  • I did like the scale and Davey Jones was a high water mark for CGI, no doubt about it. The only way I'd be interested in a fifth or sixth movie is if Tim Burton directed one and Terry Gilliam directed the other...which isn't likely to happen.

  • It's interesting that Quint mentions the quiet moments working in The Hobbit (and it sounds like they do) because that is what killed LOTR, in my opinion, the most. The best example is when Arwen is crying over Frodo-- we see tears, we have dreamy music, and we don't know or give a damn about these people. PJ's heavyhanded emotional moments NEVER worked for me in LOTR, but I think he may have figured something out in King Kong (although most of the action scenes in KK were god-awful, so that's something worry about I guess). Also The Hobbit is just a better, cleaner story (IMO). I read all the books and the Hobbit is still one of the most humorous, exciting, fun books I've read. And they've cast it just right-- I never took Elija seriously for a moment in LOTR, he was a joke. And Gollum was much over-used in TT, Sam was underused, and the endless fight scenes and multiple endings in ROTK make me literally laugh out loud. They're very cool movies, but not that good all things considered. This could be the Hobbit movie(s) I've dreamt about as a kid, and haven't seen yet. And no one's going to sway me until I watch it and see that it's crap for myself.

  • July 17, 2012, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Isn't there room in the world for two great epic fantasy stories?

    by skycrapper

    I'm a fan of both A Song of Ice and Fire and Middle Earth. I tend on Song of Ice and Fire at the moment but lets face it, it's far from being done. I'm hoping GRRM doesn't "pull a Lost" and I think he's smart enough not too, but it's still a possibility. It's a great story so far and just as engaging as Middle Earth has ever been. However Geeks always have to have their property pissing matches so piss away.

  • July 17, 2012, 3:21 p.m. CST

    by DrMorbius

    Jul 17, 2012 8:54:07 AM CDT watching tolkien is way more enjoyable than reading him by nephilim138 He created classic characters but really couldn't right for shit. Just alot of filler stuffed into a fairly thin story. Never got all the worship for the dude. couldn't right for shit. couldn't right for shit. couldn't right for shit. couldn't right for shit.

  • July 17, 2012, 3:28 p.m. CST

    so gettingeven used to be Wnanahara7?

    by DocPazuzu

    That explains a great deal because Wnanahara7 was one of the biggest cunts who ever shambled across these boards. It also means that he's not a troll, because when he was known as Wnanahara7, he used to threaten other talkbackers with physical violence during arguments. He would dare people to send him their real life addresses so he could come over and beat the shit out of them if anyone had the temerity to call him on his insane bullshit. He's a complete psycho as well as being an utter asshole. And he has some very twisted political views as well.

  • July 17, 2012, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Go easy on the Tolkien family

    by lionel_mandrake

    ...the family being, in essence, Christopher Tolkien, Tolkien's son and literary heir, since he has effective control of the rights. And Christopher, like his father, always felt that the books really were unfilmable (and not without reason). The rights had been sold back in '68 to Saul Zaentz in order to pay off some tax debt, so there was nothing Chris could do about LOTR and THE HOBBIT; but he can certainly keep SILMARILLION (which really *is* unfilmable) and the other works off the screen. As to the substance of Chris's concerns with the movies as filmed, we can only speculate. I doubt Chris fancied someof PJ's more gruesome and over-the-top visual touches. But even fans of the book have noted more substantive concerns: Compression and excisions of some sort are inevitable in an adaptation, but some characters (Aragorn, Faramir, Denethor) were considerably (even severely) altered in the screenplay, and in ways that altered the tone and moral thrust of the books. Visually, Jackson really nailed most of LOTR; but it's not clear that he ever fully understood the moral sensibility that informed the narrative. I enjoyed the movies myself; but I can see how it would all be too much (or too little) for Christopher and much of the rest of the Tolkien family.

  • July 17, 2012, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Just Ignore the Troll Folks

    by Todd1700

    His rant at me is so ridiculous and over the top I find it amusing in a sad way rather than offensive. He is either genuinely crazy which is sad or pathetically convinced that this type of trolling is actually funny. Either way it's just sad.

  • July 17, 2012, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Sly McCoy as Radagast?...Brilliant!

    by DoctorWho?

  • July 17, 2012, 3:45 p.m. CST

    morte_bea_arthur: problems with LOTR

    by lionel_mandrake

    I agree in part with you: The over-the-top action sequences that Jackson throws in ex nihilo - the skull avalanche, the collapsing staircase, the dragged out cave troll fight, the beheading of the mouth Sauron - really are gratuitous - they *feel* gratuitous. The narrative at those points hardly needs it. It feels too much like Jackson the splatter filmmaker, he just can't help himself. And I say that with loads of respect for his splatter flicks. The problem is that this sensibility doesn't work well with LOTR. But many of the narrative and character changes really are problematic, too. Adaptations require changes from the book, that's inevitable. But too often the changes Jackson and Boyens make make the characters and the narrative less compelling. This is most of all true of Aragorn, who's reduced to a filled-with-doubt postmodern anti-hero. But there's less room for these kind of problems in LOTR, a straightforward narrative that's really a children's story. There's not any narrative subtleties at risk for being bowdlerized. I could do without the she-elf, however...

  • Sure, the films are not pristine, unmolested visions that leapt straight from Tolkien's mind directly to celluloid...but they've only brought great joy, happiness to millions of viewers and introduced Middle-Earth to countless people who never would have cracked a book. And it cements Tolkien's work even MORE into the popular consciousness extending his already broad legacy.<p> In short...lighten the fuck up!

  • July 17, 2012, 3:54 p.m. CST

    Get it right Spazuzu

    by Carl

    I'd give people who said I wouldn't have the guts to say something to their face MY address and invited them to come see me so I could prove them wrong.<p> Of course none of you chicken shits ever di/do. You're fucking internet warrior punks. If a real confrontation came your way you'd be eating the shit you just crapped to give you energy to run away.

  • July 17, 2012, 3:56 p.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    Hate to tell you, but he isn't a troll. He is genuinely a raving lunatic. A bunch of us used to tangle with him when he was known as Wnanahara7 and he would threaten us physically with long detailed descriptions of what he would do to us if we "had the balls" to send him our real names and addresses. I have no doubt whatsoever that he really would like your baby to choke to death and your parents to be burned alive. That's how fucking sinister and loony he is.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:02 p.m. CST

    So were handing out your address to talkbackers?

    by DoctorWho?

    Wow, you are a dumb cunt.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:12 p.m. CST

    @docpazuzu trust me

    by Todd1700

    the last thing he would want to do is actually show up where I live with intent to harm. LOL! Some small Central American countries wish their military possessed the arsenal I own. I own 200 acres and a shovel. I doubt anyone would miss him.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Really, gettingeven?

    by DocPazuzu

    Because you never gave me yours. You simply asked for mine. Either way, why would I make a date with an unbalanced, homicidal maniac when I can simply drive him into a frothing, poo-flinging rage just by verbally crushing him online?

  • July 17, 2012, 4:19 p.m. CST


    by Anthrax

    ... Such a tough guy. Careful guys. He's gonna beat you up.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Game of Thrones in 100 years...

    by tensticks

    ...will not even be a barely remembered footnote; but people will still be reading Tolkien.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:36 p.m. CST


    by Morte_Bea_Arthur

    I had a problem with the major changes at first. The worst for me was Frodo sending Sam home, essentially betraying him. But I've gotten used to them over time, whether I understand the reasoning or not. The crappy action set pieces still gets to me though.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:40 p.m. CST

    I don't understand...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...this whole LOTR vs GoT thing. Can there be only one good fantasy series? Is it simply a matter of trying to topple whatever property happens to be at the top? I love both LOTR and GoT. Does this mean I'm somehow not loving one of them enough? Nobody ever says that this or that sci-fi epic or cop thriller has defeated all the others and is the reigning champion. Is this a fantasy thing? I don't get it.

  • July 17, 2012, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Wnanahara7 = GettingEven?!?!

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Holy shit. I thought that lunatic crawled up his own asshole and died a long time ago. Good eye, DocPaz.

  • July 17, 2012, 5:01 p.m. CST

    Aragorn is a watered down anti-hero in the films?

    by Anthrax

    Oh, good gracious.

  • July 17, 2012, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Reading the books felt like really going on the journey.

    by Tacom

    Watching the movies(which were well done) just felt like watching a movie.

  • July 17, 2012, 5:11 p.m. CST

    DocPazuzu is a Troll

    by Ringwearer9

    He haunts the Tolkien talkbacks, and keeps track of every talkbacker who has ever posted, and basically twists and lies about things they have said in the past. He has nothing to say about Tolkien or even the Jackson films, except to knee-jerk defend them and call anyone who has an issue with them "trolls" "insane" or his favorite troll tactic, to accuse them of being politically incorrect in some way. He posts here only to attack his fellow talkbackers and smear them. He should be banned. Fuck you, DocPazuzu. Get a fucking life. As for all the people bitching and moaning about Christopher Tolkien not letting them see all of Tolkien's work turned into CGI crapfests ... Learn to read, learn to enjoy reading. You don't have to have everything visually spoon fed to you like you are retarded infants watching Sesame Street.

  • July 17, 2012, 5:15 p.m. CST


    by Anthrax

    DocPazuzu disagrees with my negative opinion of the films, so it's not okay for him to be insulting... but I can be, because I like the books.

  • July 17, 2012, 5:16 p.m. CST


    by Morte_Bea_Arthur

    In the book he's been waiting his whole life for his time to take the throne. He's pretty self-confident, but not arrogant. In the film, they made him not so ambitious. I wouldn't call him an anit-hero, but he is a bit watered down.

  • July 17, 2012, 5:20 p.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    Interesting. Perhaps you could give an example, a single example, of something you've said in the past which I have then misrepresented or twisted.

  • Tolkien wrote Aragorn as a really likable hero, but the character doesn't go on much of a personal journey. As a result, I always have trouble connecting with him on the page. Instead, I latch onto the growth of Legolas and Gimli, and the growth of their relationship, during The Three Hunters chapters. Imbuing the character with some self doubt and trepidation when faced with his destiny made him even more heroic, in my opinion. The only real beef that I still have with the films is the almost exclusive use of the noble and proud Gimli as comic relief. Some of it isn't too bad, but dwarf tossing hurts. I'm particularly fond of Tolkiens dwarves, so to see some of those moments still doesn't exactly please me.

  • July 17, 2012, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Get it right, gettingeven

    by D.Vader

  • He's destined to be King. He does some heroic stuff. He becomes King.

  • July 17, 2012, 6:26 p.m. CST

    HA! It is as it was we predicted.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    The LOTR/HOBBIT Talkbacks would bring some of AICN's long forgotten trolls and handles out of the virtual woodwork. And lo, here we have the distinct re-appearances of Wnanahara7 and Ringwearer9. The time for diligence is upon us. It is a good day to be in the trenches.

  • July 17, 2012, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Once more, into the breach!

    by D.Vader

  • July 17, 2012, 6:50 p.m. CST

    holy shit! This is like old school AICN Rogue's Gallery up inhere!

    by DoctorWho?

  • July 17, 2012, 7:51 p.m. CST


    by Morte_Bea_Arthur

    You are correct, Sir. I agree that it was an improvement (although it may not have appeared so from my earlier post). I didn't feel that way when it was released though. I'm actually ok (now) with what they did to Faramir. He does eventually end up being the same character as in the book, and I can see why they wanted the dramatic tension. Again, hated it at first.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:06 p.m. CST

    The last time I fingered a ring I got slapped

    by M. David

    Ba-dum-tish. Sorry Quint, couldn't that one go! ;)

  • Like they did with Shelob’s cave. At least that is what it looks like from publicity shots of the scene. It would work so much better if there was just a tiny bit of light from Sting and that was it, sort of like the way Moria is lit after Gandalf illuminates his staff. Ah well, it’s just a small thing.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:25 p.m. CST

    Boromir was also improved in the movie, imo.

    by frank

    I think PJ gave him a lot more depth than Tolkien did, and he ended up being one of the most interesting characters in the story. Of course, as someone said earlier, Sean Bean deserves a huge amount of credit for that as well.

  • July 17, 2012, 8:27 p.m. CST

    What's Game of Thrones?

    by dumbpeoplesuck

  • July 17, 2012, 8:53 p.m. CST

    @bloodhound: "Eventually, somebody be will get LOTR right."

    by chronicallydepressedlemming

    lol you're off your fucking rocker mate, if you think anyone will feel the need to make these into movies again. Jackson's Rings will be the definitive versions, end of. You may as well get used to it unless you are sitting on a hundreds of millions of dollars to make them yourself.

  • July 17, 2012, 9:12 p.m. CST

    I’m sure eventually LotR will be remade.

    by frank

    It might be fifty years from now, but I’m sure it will be done again. Jackson’s movies will endure as classics, though. Hopefully all five of them! Also, I really hope somebody makes some great Silmarillion-based movies while I am still around. Also I want to see a cloned woolly-mammoth.

  • July 17, 2012, 9:19 p.m. CST

    Hold on now. You mean it's not "Smog" it's "Sm-OW-g"?

    by shitstorm23

    I don't care if that's the right way, that shit will bother me during the movie.

  • July 17, 2012, 9:45 p.m. CST

    I always thought it was “Smog” too

    by frank

    until I listened to the Hobbit audiobook. Same with “s-OW-ron.” It was weird at first, but now I am used to the correct pronunciations.

  • July 17, 2012, 9:52 p.m. CST


    by irritable

    ... as in "Wassup, Daug?"

  • July 17, 2012, 10:07 p.m. CST

    Now THAT is a poster done right!

    by Ted Knight


  • July 17, 2012, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Christopher Tolkien's perspective

    by irritable

    "The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has gone too far for me. Such commercialisation has reduced the aesthetic and philosophical impact of this creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me: turning my head away."

  • July 18, 2012, 1:54 a.m. CST

    Retconning LOTR stuff into the Hobbit. Wonder if Saruman kills Radagast

    by thedarklingthrush

    Fucking brilliant, can't wait.

  • July 18, 2012, 2:11 a.m. CST

    Peter Jackson should make the Lands of Lore trilogy next

    by Gorgomel

    I would cast Scarlett Johansonn as Dawn and Cate Blanchett as Scotia the witch.

  • July 18, 2012, 2:24 a.m. CST

    Radagast does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    *Wonder if Saruman kills Radagast* Very good point actually. If I recall correctly in the LOTR books Radagast makes what you would call a small cameo appearance. I believe Saruman refers to him as a fool. But he doesnt die. However in the LOTR films he doesnt appear so I think that gives PJ and company an opportunity to kill him off if they wished to in THE HOBBIT films. Hopefully with a glorious death! In fact if they dont kill him off, then when it comes to watching the LOTR the question arises - where the fuck is Radagast during all of this shit?!

  • July 18, 2012, 2:42 a.m. CST

    where the fuck is Radagast during all of this?

    by Talkbacker with no name

    sitting in a puddle of bird shit

  • July 18, 2012, 3:13 a.m. CST


    by KGersen

    Got to say, the image of Radagast with bird-shit on his hat is really off-putting. Also I'm a bit worried what the casting of Sylvester McCoy as Radagast means for the character. From what I recall he was one of the more 'comical' Dr Who's out there who actually diminished the series. I really hope Radagast is not made into some 'comedy' character (R2D2 as someone else said). He is one of the Istari, sent to save Middle Earth from the damage done by Morgoth and his servant Sauron, not 'some conjurer of cheap tricks' as Gandalf admonished Bilbo in the FOTR. From the books he had more of affinity for nature and for the birds and beasts of the wild, he was not some clown covered in birdcrap. As people above have said, if handled well he could be a great character. But don't turn him into a joke.

  • Jackson should have never forgotten his cave-dwelling nerdboy status... The minute you embrace the fact that you're a trending topic on the pop culture grapevine is the minute your work starts to go to shit. These movies all have a serious case of the cutes. Whether its Harry getting moist vagina pangs over Viggo as THE GREATEST FANTASY CHARACTER EVER.... (My answer to that? There is only one Madmartigan, bitches.) Or Jackson caving in to pressure to add a female character (WHAT, you think GIRLS aren't going to like a simple Boy's Adventure story??) Fucking yuppie PC nonsense. Don't insult the imaginations of girls by thinking they need your boring gender roles to get inspired. Assholes. These films are just too damn cute! They have accepted their place as the cherry on the top of the nerd pyramid, and the result is movies/ not films/ that take place mostly in the gauzy CGI cotton candy world of Harry Potter. These people who complain that LOTR could use some Game of Thrones gravitas to it?? THEY'RE FUCKING RIGHT. Did you ever notice how little they depend on CGI on Game of Thrones? The way they bring the camera POV down into the dirt and the muck until you are smelling sweat and feeling your emotions tugged by the characters and their stories? The Lord of the Rings movies are all so grandiose and epic and manipulative when they honestly need to occasionally slow down the fucking camera, the epic sweeping crane shots, and give us five minutes to examine the world we're in, without Jackson's camera- ADD. Splitting the Hobbit into two stories was the fist wrongheaded & manipulative move on the part of this team. It's a small compact adventure story, with Hobbits and spiders and a cast of boys. The BEST Gandalf, the best Bilbo, Gollum and Smaug, shit the ONLY adaptation of this story likely to have the real glittery magic of the story, is the Rankin and Bass version. Don't believe me? Roll a joint and watch that movie again, but please, turn the cynical adult part of your brain off first. And sad to say, but Peter Jackson's peak was Heavenly Creatures, when he remembered how to bring the audience INTO a world, without using manipulation and spectacle so much as character, mystery and atmosphere. Please dial your shit back Jackson, and hire your model-makers again before you become another George Lucas.

  • Philippa Boyens talked about creating Tauriel because it is such a boys story that they needed to have a little feminine energy. She wanted to assure us all that they believe it’s completely within the spirit of Tolkien’s universe and isn’t just thrown in to have a lady around. *Cough* *cough* *BULLSHIT* *cough* You know, there's a reason the Tolkien estate doesn't like the movies. And it's shit like this.

  • July 18, 2012, 4:46 a.m. CST

    haha calm down, kgersen. He doesn't have bird shit on his hat!

    by Talkbacker with no name

    It's on the side of his head

  • July 18, 2012, 4:51 a.m. CST

    talkbacker with no name...

    by KGersen

    Ha! true, well that's ok then. A wizard's hat is sacrosanct!

  • July 18, 2012, 6:18 a.m. CST

    Yes, adding a female is "shit"

    by D.Vader


  • manipulative and cheapening. and yeah, soils the whole vibe of the book.

  • It's a STORY, and a classic story, and you don't go pissing on the intention of the storyteller just to make sure everyone at the table is smiling and content with matching pink birthday napkins. You don't make a fucking gluten-free movie just because some itchy-assed little girl has an allergy to cupcakes that don't have dairy free pink icing on them.

  • A girl! A girl in my movie about male midgets (bearded and clean shaven) aimlessly wandering around New Zealand for 16 bazillion hours?? THAT SHALL NOT PASS!

  • July 18, 2012, 7:10 a.m. CST

    Those of you still bitching about Tauriel

    by Scrunchie-Scroochie

  • July 18, 2012, 7:13 a.m. CST

    Those of you still bitching about Tauriel

    by Scrunchie-Scroochie

    So are you telling me that all of the Elven Guard in this movie have to be male? At least all the ones with speaking roles? Because that's what Tauriel is, she's the head of the Elven Guard in Mirkwood. These guys were in the fucking Hobbit book, just not named. But you have to flesh these roles out and give them more depth in the film. What's the fucking problem here again?

  • July 18, 2012, 7:16 a.m. CST

    I've always pronounced it 'SMORG' because that's how you'd sound it in English

    by chronicallydepressedlemming

    And Tolkien was fucking English. you don't say 'mowl' when you say the word maul, do you??

  • July 18, 2012, 7:18 a.m. CST


    by KGersen

    Yes neonfrisbee, you're correct, only obese middle aged virgins like LOTRs. You however I'm sure are a young, yoked shagging machine. Wonder what kind of films you like? Care to inform us?

  • July 18, 2012, 7:38 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Strike up the band... You say Smorg and I say Smowg, You say Beorn and I say Beown, Oh, lets call the whole thing off.

  • You might not like it, though, 'cause there's girls in it.

  • July 18, 2012, 7:56 a.m. CST


    by KGersen

    Thanks for the reply, not seen it, will have to check it out. I don't have any problem with inclusion of female characters in the upcoming films, only people who seem to have a problem with this are either obsessed with somehow recreating the books exactly on the screen or who don't want to accept that this is a commercial enterprise which seeks to sell the widest possible audience whilst not compromising the material too much. I don't fall in either of those camps, I'm just happy the films are getting made and by somehow who showed himself highly capable to do a good job of it, Peter Jackson. I do however have a problem with people generalising about which type of filmviewers like the fantasy genre. As you did. But whatever makes you happy I guess.

  • July 18, 2012, 8:26 a.m. CST

    An interview with Christopher Tolkien

    by Mark

    To those bitching about the Tolkiens not liking the movies, maybe you should find out why before casting judgement. Here’s a link to an interview with Christopher Tolkien. It’s a long read but important to understand the Tolkiens and what they have gone through.

  • That's just the way it is. It sucks, but we are not talking about putting on a high school play here.

  • July 18, 2012, 8:59 a.m. CST

    Sorry sasquatch, but you're dead wrong there

    by D.Vader

    The Hobbit is NOT "a small compact adventure story". Its a serialized adventure that takes the company through *many* adventures, and to fit all of them into one movie means cutting *many* aspects of the story, many stop-offs and subplots. Which would not make the populace happy. Anyone complaining about the split into two movies just doesn't get it.

  • DocP aint a troll, but dat boy be about as obsessed as one and tougher to shake than a well hung Amoeba clamped on the back of a fine assed big badonked popcorn kernel -think KimK with salt!

  • - though I respect all the work he has done to bring more of his father's work together for the public and also feel sad that they had to fight New Line to get their dues, I do wonder if he ever watched say FOTR? I really think he may have been pleasantly surprised, they really aren't the pure action-fodder for 15 - 25 year olds that he seems to think they are. Sure it will never impart the deeper roots of Tolkien and bits have been put in to satisfy some less serious desires for comedy etc but I really think that he has been given a skewed view of the films without seeing them. His suggestion that his only option is to 'turn away his head' suggests he hasn't watched them. As a comparator look at what happened to poor Ursula Le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea when the SciFi channel got their hands on it. She actually thought it might be ok because Phillippa Boyens was initial supposed to be working on the screenplay but that all fell away and you ended up with a hideous mess which explicitly went AGAINST all the things her series of novels were about it.

  • July 18, 2012, 9:31 a.m. CST

    Females are the broadest base possible?

    by D.Vader

    Putting aside the punny use of the word "broad" in there, you're dead wrong.

  • July 18, 2012, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Girls don't NEED a character in this to relate

    by D.Vader

    But you can be damn sure *I* am happy to see a hot female in the film. It doesn't hurt the story. Get over it.

  • You heard it here first, folks. That's what this guy thinks of females. They're manipulative and cheap.* *HAW!

  • July 18, 2012, 9:36 a.m. CST


    by Talkbacker with no name

    Yeah and it's that hot chick from Lost! Talkbackers be crazy for men yo

  • July 18, 2012, 10:08 a.m. CST

    @ liquid meddle re: Thomas Covenent

    by Nick Hansen

    Def one of the greatest fantasy stories written IMO but tough sell to production budget for a movie... Thomas grows into an awesome character but he is truly unlikeable for all the first book and pretty much the second book too (although Hile Troy, Fleshharrower and the battle of Dooms Retreat would be awesome to see) which would be problematic for a main stream audience - that and the fact he's a bit rapey makes the series a tough sell. HBO series though? Fuck yes, they love it rapey!!

  • July 18, 2012, 10:21 a.m. CST

    re: troll sharts riling up about us bitching about boyens

    by Nick Hansen

    course we're not saying it should be a fucking elven sausage factory... We're just saying Phillipa Boyens is a stupid middle aged Kiwi chick who helped PJ and Fran write a pretty decent trilogy adaptation and then - like Lucas - crawled up her own arsehole and helped ruin everything PJ has done since: king kong anyone? the lovely bones? fuck me. That's right folks: Boyens was there in the script writing sessions for that slop with her precious ideas to add shit like 'I know let's add feminine energy' or 'lets make Naomi Watts look like she's getting a wide on for the gorilla in every 2nd scene' GO THE FUCK BACK TO TARANAKI or wheever the fuck you're from. Go back and watch her interviews from the original LOTR, especially the 2 towers where she is happily talking about the 'child birth' scene they wrote into the script at the battle of helms deep. It might have been ok I guess, but its a good profile of how annoying Phillipa is as a creative partner at the centre of Wingnut. Seriously Fran and PJ need to move on and shake things up again.

  • July 18, 2012, 10:22 a.m. CST

    Hobbit Spice- The Bois Like Mah Hairy Toes

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    Actually, the splitting into two parts and the addition of the female character are the least of my problems. Those are in the wait-and-see category. My problem is, I have a hard time believing that droll little man from the Office comedy can play Bilbo Baggins I seriously, SERIOUSLY wish they hadn't picked such a current pop culture flavor... But, like I said. These movies, and Jackson in general, all have a bad case of what's-cool now-internet-cutes. Everyoneon this site likes to act like junior executives, like David Cross playing a yuppie barking smug pronouncements into a bluetooth headset... -Well you can't just do what you want with a 300 mil. tentpole franchise!!!- And then there's us old-fashioned types who care about integrity and telling a story appropriately, wish some nuance and class... Without making the audience feel like their being pandered to or talked down to... Or, you know, putting a dwarf-tossing joke in a movie that's set in antiquity.... That's really, really nice that you want a sexy female warrior in your Rings movie. And the execs, well when something's a franchise movie, you get to -Have It Your Way- like Burger King, so there you've got your wish. It's like if the Kellogg's execs were like -We really need a hot Korean girl in tights to add to the Snap, Crackle and Pop team... Give the cereal more sex appeal!! So now it'll be Snap Crackle, Pop, and Starr!!!- Cereal sells through the roof. The character becomes so popular girls use it for cosplay at conventions. Yup. It's all working magnificently...

  • July 18, 2012, 10:39 a.m. CST

    It depends on how they use Tauriel.

    by frank

    If she is just the captain of Thranduil’s guard, who happens to be female, then I have no problem whatsoever with that. It would be annoying, however, if they feel the need to constantly focus on the fact that she is female and make that her defining character trait. It’s stupid to complain about Tauriel without having seen any footage of her, though. I like Evangeline Lilly and am giving her character the benefit of the doubt.

  • I get it.

  • July 18, 2012, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Sorry Sas

    by D.Vader

    I'm putting words in your mouth. You already stated the female is the least of your worries. It really should be the least of *everyone's* worries.

  • July 18, 2012, 10:45 a.m. CST

    btw D. Vader

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    I fucking love women and stories about women... and stories told BY women. I much prefer the company of women and find them to be superior to men in almost every way imaginable. So joking or not, I don't appreciate the Fox News maneuvering that suggests I'm some misogynist dick Not everyone confirms to yr stereotypes, people... of this site being mostly full of fat nerds who don't get laid and play with action figures... I'm a writer, an indie rocker slash rockabilly musician, and trust me, I don't fucking lack in the getting laid department.

  • Did you seriously just type that or you being tongue-in-cheek? Hope it's the later, really do.

  • He spent all his time with animals and lost interest in the original reason he was sent to Middle Earth, which was to combat Sauron. Of the five Istari, Gandalf is the only one who followed through to the end with that purpose. It actually makes sense for Radagast to have shit on him and be dirty in general, but I really hope they don’t make him purely into a comic relief character.

  • July 18, 2012, 10:55 a.m. CST

    I trust you, sasquatch.

    by frank

    Women love narcissistic assholes in shitty rock bands.

  • You're not THE SASQUATCH, are you? If so, you rock! I saw you in Philly at Kung Fu Necktie a couple years ago.

  • July 18, 2012, 11:22 a.m. CST

    "I much prefer the company of women and

    by JAMF

    find them to be superior to men in almost every way imaginable." bleugh.

  • July 18, 2012, 11:26 a.m. CST

    franks_television, re: Tauriel

    by Scrunchie-Scroochie

    That's exactly it. She plays an Elven warrior who kicks many arses and just happens to be a female. There are plenty of female elf warriors in Tolkien's Legendarium, so it is true to the wider source material and in the Tolkien spirit. Oh and from what I've read, she dual-wields. Nerd boner rising....

  • July 18, 2012, 11:33 a.m. CST

    yay for stereotypes

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    Oh that's right, if you play music you're supposed to not talk about it and shit, you're supposed to stay tucked behind yr sunglasses and disappear into your basement with a guitar. It's like declaring yourself punk rock, or saying I play keyboards in an indie band, even if those things happen to be true, people are going to piss on you for it like its a cub scout uniform, and here comes that fat bully in the locker room, he's coming this way, you'd better hide your notebooks.... I'm just saying, I don't play World of Warcraft or any of that shit. I don't drink domestic beers with my nerd friends and have Harry Potter marathons like the Big Bang Theory. Fuck 2012. I'd like to replace every cellphone and ipod with a View Master. I'm not the stereotype. The armchair media analyst. Granted I know there ARE a lot of smug, chubby fellows on here, the sort of true weirdo that will hate a movie based on its fanbase or a director... (OHMYGOD IF YOU LIKE CHISTOPHER NOLAN YOU ARE THE DEVIL) If anything I'm a lot like Harry and I'm a child of the fantasy-infused early 80's HBO, with Dragonslayer, Heavy Metal, The Secret of NIMH, The Beastmaster. Those things informed my personality quite a bit. The becoming an artist bits. The Disney Channel and Nickelodeon in the 80's, too. I mostly feel a kinship with people like Joe Dante and Quentin Tarantino, Stephen Spielberg, true movie brats who love the dusty old attic goodness of filmmaking. The pulp. The handmade. I just think old-fashioned charm and storytelling are missing in these films. You say you prefer vinyl over MP3s people are going to scream GAHHH HIPSTER!! and point at laugh at you like Nelson on the Simpsons... but vinyl DOES sound better, cartoons were better before everyone sold out to PIXAR And putting an extra girl-character into the story seems to have very little to do with spinning an effective fantasy tale and everything to do with making it PC and marketable. I did NOT say that females were the broadest demographic, but look at what studios are releasing and you may come to the conclusion... that with Hunger Games, Potter, Girl Tattoo, etc...that the books that white girls and their moms are reading NOW are going to be the bestsellers they turn into films tomorrow.

  • July 18, 2012, 11:39 a.m. CST

    re: sergeantstedenko

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    My name is Jesse Mills. I play like, sensitive streetcorner fucking girly folk that could best be described as gypsy jazz/ rockabilly meets Harry Nilsson.... or something like that Idon'tfuckingknow.... And though I have played shows at the Northstar bar in Philly (opening up for Evan from the Lemonheads) no I am not THE SASQUATCH (I do have a sasquatch obsession, though. Ever see "albino sasquatch spotted by woodpile in Pennsylvania" on YouTube?? compelling stuff.)

  • July 18, 2012, 11:42 a.m. CST

    The only thing worse than being a Sasquatch

    by Anthrax

    Is being a hipster.

  • July 18, 2012, 12:11 p.m. CST

    says the guy with the name Anthrax

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    please attach a photo so we can all collectively make fun of how many stereotypes your clothes and style fall into (here's the point where I'd make a mocking digital-devil-horns of pixelated baddassedry, but I'm not cool enough so I don't know how. I'll just save that one for when I need to slap the next guy who gives me shit on Dave Mustaine's

  • July 18, 2012, 12:12 p.m. CST


    by D.Vader

  • You may say you're not THE stereotype, but that is *A* stereotype.

  • July 18, 2012, 12:16 p.m. CST

    R Crumb is a hipster

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    So is Woody Allen. I'm just saying. Somebody needs to take that term away from skinny Arcade Fire fans who dress like Elijah Wood. Wearing t-shirts with owls and shit. Girls with tattoos. Remember when hipster meant like... Kerouac? Bongos? Kurt Cobain? Harvey Pekar was a hipster and he's still cooler than you because he, too wasted a lot of energy and time bitching about the modern world... Just like the rest of his peers did. Ralph Bakshi. Hipster. Anthrax? I dunno... anonymous douche on a LOTR messageboard maybe?

  • July 18, 2012, 12:18 p.m. CST


    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    yeah I'd like to see old school sawdust and inventiveness replace people jacked into the brightly colored digital slurpee machine. if that's a stereotype, sue me. i think its the opposite.

  • July 18, 2012, 12:22 p.m. CST

    That's not a stereotype. That makes sense.

    by D.Vader

    But the stereotype of people shunning modern tech bc its too mainstream and going back to things like, even as a joke, "viewmasters"... yeah its a stereotype. Even if I agree with certain aspects of it. Its like those "old" film cameras you buy at Urban Outfitters. Bc its cool and retro. Know what I mean?

  • July 18, 2012, 12:26 p.m. CST

    No... Nobody remembers when hipster meant guys like Kerouac...

    by Anthrax

    Because, to my knowledge, nobody who posts here is in their sixties... Who on Earth ever considered Kurt Cobain a hipster? Why are you trying so hard?

  • July 18, 2012, 12:26 p.m. CST

    LOL is a stereotype,

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    so is ROFL so is "Doesn't belong in this dojo" so is "Hulk Hogan gotta EAT" im sorry, im just not into boring internet regurgitations. i genuinely like the feeling of being eight years old with a View Master held up to the sun and making up my own story along with the images. the modern world with all its hyperactive social devices, sensory immersing 3d... seems cultivated to produce a lot of smug glasses-wearing adults and that's what we have. people who have forgotten stories and... anarchic, unpredictable... Handmade... wonderment. old Star Trek Vs.jacked up Abrams' Code Red: Mountain Dew Star Trek If I think people are being manipulated by high fructose, lazy fucking cinema, I'm going to say so. You don't like it, either join the discussion or fuck off.

  • July 18, 2012, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Oh, I see.

    by Anthrax

    You have no idea what the term stereotype means. Good to know. Carry on.

  • July 18, 2012, 12:36 p.m. CST

    "or fuck off"? Come on, seriously, Sas?

    by D.Vader

    Conversing. That's exactly what we've been doing. No need to get all insulting and high and mighty and defensive bc I said it *is* a stereotype.

  • July 18, 2012, 12:37 p.m. CST

    PS, your examples are lines, quotes, memes -- *not* stereotypes

    by D.Vader

  • July 18, 2012, 12:42 p.m. CST

    awww swingtime, don't be an obnoxious prick who is jealous of the kiwis

    by Talkbacker with no name

    for what reason, I have no idea. But you like to keep pointing out where she is from like it means something. Either way, Boyens is more geek than you you will ever be. That much is clear. Christ! It's a work of fiction. If you really want to get into it, Tolkien's 'The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún' is a retelling of the Norse Volsung cycle. 'The Silmarillion' contains the retelling of the Creation and the Fall according to Genesis 1-3 Tolkien has freely admitted all of his work is based fairy tales, Anglo-Saxon and Norse, Finnish, Greek, Persian, Slavic, and Celtic mythology, and you are moaning like a little man baby about Jackson and co adding a character that (in theory) respectfully fits into his world!? ha idiot.

  • July 18, 2012, 12:43 p.m. CST


    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch


  • July 18, 2012, 12:50 p.m. CST

    fucking hell

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    use one quote, goddamn this backwards fucking site. Let's see. On Kurt Cobain- Complained about a lack of parental love.... Hated almost everything mainstream... Collected bits of esotera from advertising etc, beause he was into the campy Warholian aspects of it wore ugly Cosby sweaters and women's sunglasses was a self loather kept mutiple diaries was so into his influences that he covered their songs, had them play on his records, or borrowed from them, see: Teen Spirit's use of BOC's Godzilla chords, the palpable Beatles influence in his material... (EVERY hipster needs to have some Beatles influence, even if It's Just A Haircut) I hate the modern version of hipster because for them fashion supercedes everything, its fake punk values, and being cool because of what you're into, not what you're creating Hipster can be an affectionate term, but obviously if yr like a cro magnon metalhead Dudepocalypse... its a slur. Well played my genius friend.

  • July 18, 2012, 12:52 p.m. CST

    Whoever said I was a metal head?

    by Anthrax

    And none of that makes Mr. Cobain a hipster. Still trying so damn hard. It's a little cute.

  • July 18, 2012, 12:59 p.m. CST hate to break up this little mothers meeting, Hobbit?

    by Talkbacker with no name

  • July 18, 2012, 12:59 p.m. CST

    sorry Vader

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    I didn't mean you in particular. Although your manipulation of my argument to make it read like, I dunno... I don't think women make a useful contribution to a fantasy story... is pretty snarky and childish. At the heart I was talking about fidelity to the text, and the Hobbit is a boy's adventure story plain and simple. It's fucking possible to keep the faith with Tolkien's text, and his heirs, and still make a movie that grosses 4 billion bucks, assholes on this site don't think it is, but it IS possible. Look at Star Wars Vs the prequels. Risk and a great iconoclastic storyteller is what makes a legendary film... Not trying to please everyone with fucking test screenings. Don't insult people's intelligence, and don't pass down heavy handed executives notes to make your story more PC to PLEASE EVERYONE. That goes for this movie and for Brave... Yes, I consider it insulting to women that any fucking story needs all these concessions and explaining to move a simple narrative along. Story is simply that. STORY. And it ought to be pruned of anything other than what makes a good yarn, and keeps that fragile faith between the teller and his audience. I apologize Vader if I seemed personal. Just get miffed sometimes.

  • July 18, 2012, 1:03 p.m. CST


    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    I'm sorry if trying to voice some nuance and analysis into a discussion is trying too hard. It's like.... fun to dissect shit, you know? I like looking at pop culture with a wry eye and picking it apart. I'm not a fucking dumbass just because-I-have-got-something-to-say

  • July 18, 2012, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Cartoon Hobbit owns everything around it.

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    There. I said something about the Hobbit. '77 Hobbit is one of the best fantasy films/ and movies to get stoned to ever. They used the Misty Mountains song from the cartoon in the trailer? Is that an old folk melody, or did Jackson do it in tribute, anyone know?

  • July 18, 2012, 1:10 p.m. CST

    I came three times while typing this sentence...

    by BilboRing

    Cannot wait for The Hobbit!!!! Lucas may have raped my childhood but Peter Jackson rescued me and made me whole again.

  • July 18, 2012, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Rankin/Bass Hobbit...

    by Anthrax

    Totally awesome. There's truly nothing better than getting high and watching a climactic battle between dots.

  • July 18, 2012, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Almost every Rankin Bass did was horrible

    by TheGangBangTheory

    But The Hobbit was great! Still have a VHS. Well, the couple of Xmas specials were good too...the one with Heat Miser and the cold guy?

  • July 18, 2012, 1:45 p.m. CST

    The Last Unicorn, too!

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    I mean, I heard they outsourced a lot of their animation... I read somewhere that the Last Unicorn contains early work from Ghibli animators. Its hit and miss, and some really patronizing writing sometimes, but there are some gems in there.... Historically, I don't feel like that studio ever got a proper due. Hobbit and The Last Unicorn are cult stoner films for all time.

  • July 18, 2012, 2:10 p.m. CST

    Sasquatch, I don't have time to respond to everything

    by D.Vader

    So I'll be real quick. - You *did* say it was manipulative and cheap to add a female to the story, so that's what I ran with. - I think maybe you missed the part where I apologized for putting words in your mouth. - Apologies for lumping you in with every crazy talkbacker foaming at the mouth bc of a change to the story. But a female Elf just isn't something to get worked up over in my opinion. - The "Misty Mountain" song in the Hobbit trailer is NOT the same as the one from Rankin Bass. They DO sound similar, however, and I love it. It was an original song for the animated movie and not based off an old folk song to my knowledge. I wonder if they intentionally made it sound somewhat similar (tenor, somber, full of old memory) or its just coincidence. - I grew up watching that, the animated Return of the King, and The Last Unicorn. Love those Rankin/Bass flicks.

  • July 18, 2012, 2:17 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    *Doesnt exist in this dojo* is a stereotype? I prefer the term CATCHPHRASE, darling. Sasquatch you seem like an interesting guy, and I never knew that Kurt Cobain wore girls sunglasses. However when it comes to looking back at how much better everything was in the past I think you need to take your glasses off. The rose tinted ones.

  • July 18, 2012, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Wasn’t the song the dwarves sing from The Hobbit itself?

    by frank

    The lyrics, I mean. I know they sang a pretty lengthy tune during their stay at Bag End. I’m not sure where the tune in Jackson’s movie came from, but I think the words are Tolkien’s.

  • July 18, 2012, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Yeah the lyrics come from the book and Tolkien himself

    by D.Vader

    Read them here:

  • July 18, 2012, 2:41 p.m. CST

    Thanks, d.vader

    by frank

    I loved the version of the song from the BBC audiobook. The one from the movie trailer sounds pretty great as well. On par with the great melody they (Howard Shore?) came up with for “The Road Goes Ever On” that Gandalf sings at the beginning of Fellowship. Oh, I hope we’ll get to hear Bilbo sing that in the new movie!

  • July 18, 2012, 2:47 p.m. CST

    I cannot believe...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...that people are getting all butthurt over the fact that PJ is inserting a new female elf character in the film. Wait -- what am I saying? Of course I believe it. This is AICN talkback. As long as it doesn't detract from the core of the story, who gives a shit?

  • Practical effects. Weird movie-nerd stoners with beards like George Lucas and John Milius. Jim Henson. Before you had to sell out to get a movie made. Before the production went from a team of craftsmen and innovators to a room full of computers and dudes drinking Rockstar energy drinks. It's not nostalgia. And I don't care how much time goes by, those classic movies STICK to the human subconscious due to their REAL-ness.... In the 15 years or so of the computer's dominance they have NOT been able to make a character who has been across the board beloved like E.T. Not one. Something like Ratatouille comes out, everyone loves it, critics rave.... the movie then leaves wide release, the internet furor dies down and now nobody can even remember that damn rats name. And kids are still sleeping with more stuffed Winnie The Poohs than stuffed Owen-Wilson-As-A-Cars.... 15 more years will go by, parents will still buy the old Winnie the Pooh to put in the babies crib, and someone will be taking down a well-watched copy of the Rankin/Bass Hobbit from the shelf of a to show somebody, with wonderment, all those magic tricks Jackson and Co are so desperately trying to pull off with 200 million dollars and room full of computers. The sad fact is, people are seeing a lot of these movies and giving them alllll that money BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY OPTION AVAILABLE IF YOU WANT TO WATCH FANTASY AND SCI FI. Will they still be legendary in 20 years time? Enough for an Alamo Drafthouse retrospective? We'll see. Right now, you are strapped into a very effective hype machine called a computer, with an attached bag to collect your drool and LIKE votes on Facebook. Movies used to be a lot better than this.

  • July 18, 2012, 3:07 p.m. CST

    The melody is exactly the same from the cartoon.

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    So I don't understand... Unless its an old English folk melody, how they are using that without leasing it from whomever has the rights to the Rankin/Bass cartoon. Sounds similar is what you said, Vader.... It sounds exactly the same to me... but it is haunting, and effective. Despite my bitching, I will see this movie, and I'm psyched for it. I just wish Jackson had better reins on his filmmaking.... when he's great, you get a Heavenly Creatures, when he's not it's a busy, epic mess, like King Kong or the Frighteners. I'm still having a hard time seeing Martin Freeman as gentle, silly, soft-spoken Bilbo, though.... And I am PRAYING they keep modern snark and shitty dwarf tossing jokes far away from this movie... I think Martin Freeman, and all I can see is the smug, slightly snotty way he plays John Watson on Sherlock. Or fuck.... Hitchhiker's Guide? I can't buy him as the bumbling little Hobbit who saves the day. I've never seen that... humility and gentility in his acting.

  • July 18, 2012, 3:12 p.m. CST

    chronicallydepressedlemming have you been paying attention?

    by letsfightinglove

    ALL movies will be remade at the rate Hollywood is going...ALL of them.

  • July 18, 2012, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Melodies are not the same.

    by frank

    I just listened to the Rankin Bass and Peter Jackson versions of the song on youtube, and they are similar but not close to identical. The new version is much more somber and moving, I think. I assume Howard Shore wrote it? Based on the trailer it seems to be the basis for the main musical theme of the movie. Rankin/Bass version: Jackson version:

  • July 18, 2012, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Its not exactly the same, Sas.

    by D.Vader

    Give it another listen.

  • July 18, 2012, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Martin was pretty arrogant

    by Avon

    Oh right, yeah. He forgot it's Hollywood and big studio movie. He should be all wide eyed and thankful and shit.

  • July 18, 2012, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Oh boy. Not another GOT vs. LOTR argument

    by DanielnocharismaCraig

    Not apples and oranges type comparison, but close. GOT's is a setting far more brutal in it's social and economic conditions for it's world at large. Young pre-pubescent girls and boys getting gang raped. Families torn apart. Sex and prositution is figured much more in the fabric of GOT then any other fantasy type setting. The bad guys lose at the end of LOTR, where as in GOT's, the characters are much more complex than not. Both have their upside and downside. I prefer Tolkiens writing as a rule just due to his rich description of Middle Earth, whereas in GOT's events are much more rushed. Of course, Tolkien never pulled a Robert Jordan on his readers like Martin has with ASOIAF. Such as taking twelve years to release two books which really don't advance the all.

  • July 18, 2012, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Okay, you're right

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    At first listen in the initial trailer it almost sounded like Peter Jackson's little nod to the cartoon... Gave me chills. And I hate to sound like a snarky fanboy for the Rankin/Bass version, because I'm in the minority of people who think that movie is *perfection*, but their song is much more creepy, simple and effective... the spooky windchime orchestration and everything. I wish they had used the original theme, it would be nice to give a tip of the hat to such a bastard stepchild of a cult classic... and as it stands now, when I hear this all I can hear is Howard Shore with his ear on the Rankin/Bass them while STRIVING to differentiate it with some unnecessary Celtic twists in the melodic structure Bummer, because the old theme, any 8 year old on the playground could hum. This one, no. A little too inorganic and writerly.

  • July 18, 2012, 4:32 p.m. CST

    No GOT in my LOTR!! Excuse me while I ROTFL

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch


  • July 18, 2012, 4:36 p.m. CST

    Christopher Lee

    by donkey_lasher

    So good to see he is still active and able to portray Saruman. He's still as sharp as a tack, although not able to make long trips. Any other actor would have quit by his age and retired like Sean Connery, but his love for Tolkein and film is admirable.

  • July 18, 2012, 4:39 p.m. CST

    nobody's saying Rings needs to be like Thrones

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    Nobody is suggesting that Rings needs incest, or rape... Or modernity, nothing like that. I think what they're saying is the reliance on CGI, tricky lighting, and epic camera work is distracting.... What Thrones does well is show the fantasy world realistically, with real sets and dust and characters that manage to speak ornately but still sound and seem like real people. There is a clank and a dust and a camera that knows how to SIT STILL and inhale the scenery, unlike Jackson's frenetic kid-with-a-Super 8 stuff. Sometimes too many crayons in the box makes for a messy picture. Thrones knows how to use a subtle palette to draw you in with mystery.... Rings, eh... not so much.

  • July 18, 2012, 5:02 p.m. CST


    by King Psyz

  • ...the other two films were a bit redundant.

  • ...PJ is awesome though. Please make Dead Alive/Braindead 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ...what are y'all smoking? The first one was passable because of the revelatory Keith Richards impersonation; the rest of it was just plain uninspired excess. I still have love for Chow Yun Fat though. Li Mu Bai, good lookin'.

  • If you had read Tolkien before seeing it, you would have hated it--the goblins looked like frogs and the dwarves and elves looked like they had been born and raised in Chernobyl. The only thing I liked was John Huston's voice as Gandalf.

  • July 18, 2012, 7:19 p.m. CST

    This Gollum scared the shit out of little kids:

    by Liquid Meddle But with the movies, today's kids think he's all LMFAOROFL!!1

  • My lulla is so angry it might become a kaiju that destroys the world.

  • That would be an awesome stage show for a band.

  • I grew up watching that and the ROTK animated movie. I remember being ecstatic when I realized it was a sequel. Gollum is back! And Bilbo is old! And Frodo must be his son or nephew! WOW! It blew my mind as a kid. I never realized The Hobbit and LOTR were a series of books until middle school, when I saw "The Hobbit" one the reading list shelf at the school library (which had a weird photo/illustration of a fat hobbit in a wig with a creepy hook-nosed Gollum behind him). And I never realized the important/significance/influence of LOTR as a series until AICN started reporting that Peter Jackson (who?) was beginning to make them. And everyone was so damn excited. I figured it was time I read the books and checked them out. I never looked back.

  • July 18, 2012, 9:53 p.m. CST

    Oh fuck me in the ass with the larder gun

    by DougMcKenzie

    Through decades of experience with "The Hobbit" book, in public and high schools, reading and teaching, I have never, EVER, heard anyone comment that the book lacks "Feminine Energy". Is this really how Boyens justifies her paycheque at the end of the day? As much as I like Peter's vision as a director on these, when he pulls this self-indulgent wanker crap, it's a major turn-off. Make no mistake these are Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" movies and not J.R.R.'s

  • July 18, 2012, 10:18 p.m. CST

    Bullshit, you don't need to be a kid to appreciate the Hobbit cartoon.

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    Not everybody is a cynical jerktard who needs a spurting neckwound to get into a fantasy story. I could be sixty and still think that Duck Tales and the Smurfs are rad, that's because I'm not some arrested development 13 year-old who declared one day that cartoons and claymation were for babies and now my pop needs to be WOLVERINEBATMANSPAWN I will always, always, be able to turn off the cynical part of my brain and submit to a story well-told regardless if it's what morons of 2013 deem "unsophisticated animation". What you need 3D and fucking grimy pectoral sweat in 1080 HD?? Otto Preminger IS Gollum, Huston IS Gandalf. You will never in a million years get actor/directors of that caliber in those roles, with quavering, sonorous, Shakespearean voices... No other actors will ever be able to make children literally quake in their fucking boots like those guys. Call it cheap animation if you want, that is living breathing spectacle on that screen, and you can bet Jackson has watched that film HUNDREDS of times, stoned at midnight in his dinosaur pajamas.

  • As I said initially, the character might work or it might Jar Jar... But either way Boyens draws my ire for the saccharine-laden set pieces she clearly brings to the Wingnut table. I don't think that's coming from a jealously thing, it just comes from the fact I wish Phillipa would do me a favour and FUCK HER OWN FACE

  • July 18, 2012, 10:33 p.m. CST

    Would The Silmarillion translate to film at all?

    by Royston Lodge

    Is the slowest, most meandering and most ponderous of Tolkien's work. I just don't see it as a film.

  • July 18, 2012, 10:36 p.m. CST

    @sasquatch, agreed.

    by Liquid Meddle

    It's a fucking classic! The animation in the cartoon is creepy. That animation style is what I dug about Flight of Dragons as well. Don't make 'em like they used to and people who talk shit on it probably hate cartoons in general, saw it way late in their adulthood, or got their first taste of the Tolkienverse watching the Peter Jackson movie.

  • July 18, 2012, 11:11 p.m. CST


    by Finn

    Never understood the New Zealand/Australia rivalry. You're both marooned under the southern cross way down there. How about you get along? Besides, I've been to both places and found New Zealand cleaner and more beautiful.

  • July 19, 2012, 12:10 a.m. CST


    by Talkbacker with no name

    I take it back, it's not a jealously thing. It's a spiteful horrible cunt thing. I'm sure you make your fellow countrymen very proud.

  • July 19, 2012, 12:33 a.m. CST

    Re: sasquatch...the theme

    by starlesswinter7

    I agree that the cartoon's theme for the song was more effective. However, I think Shore's theme is more effective as an instrumental piece, because it's clearly meant to be the Dwarves' theme throughout the movie (as heard in the second half of the trailer), just used with lyrics for that particular song. Clever, but not as memorable as the cartoon's.

  • July 19, 2012, 1:48 a.m. CST

    I'm only seeing this at the theater for 48 fps.

    by Rupee88

    I wonder how many others are like me. It's definitely going to help the box office as the luddites just will go see it downsampled to 24.

  • Couple of things: 1) The cartoon characters looked nothing like the races described in Tolkiens books. It was a hideous travesty of a depiction and I really hope Tolkien never saw it. 2) Tolkien's books ARE epic in scale. They do not show human down and dirty like sex, people having a shit, crappy muddy shitty medieval towns etc. It has never been in his books and never will be. So comparing to the 'realism' of GoT is nonsensical. Peter Jackon's LOTR is much much closer to the spirit of Tolkiens work than either this terrible cartoon or some GoT version you seem to be yearning for. Have you actually read the books has to be the natural question to ask?

  • July 19, 2012, 2:49 a.m. CST

    Tolkien's own description of Gollum, from a letter:

    by starlesswinter7

    Gollum was according to Gandalf one of a riverside hobbit people - and therefore in origin a member of a small variety of the human race, although he had become deformed during his long inhabiting of the dark lake. His long hands are therefore more or less right...he was very thin - in The L.R. emaciated...he had for his size a large head and a long thin neck, very large eyes...and thin lank hair...long arms and legs almost bone-white and bone-thin...his skin was white, no doubt with a pallor increased by dwelling long in the dark, and later by hunger. He remained a human being, not an animal or a mere bogey, even if deformed in mind and body.

  • July 19, 2012, 2:51 a.m. CST


    by starlesswinter7

    That is from a letter Tolkien wrote to illustrator Pauline Baynes, taken from the book THE HISTORY OF THE HOBBIT (p. 186)

  • July 19, 2012, 3:03 a.m. CST


    by KGersen

    so from Tolkien's own description Jackson's version of Gollum is pretty damn close no? Compared to Rankin / Bass or Bakshi

  • July 19, 2012, 3:16 a.m. CST

    Yes, exactly, kgersen

    by starlesswinter7

    I watched the Hobbit cartoon as a child and was thoroughly creeped out by that Gollum, but I really do believe Jackson's version is closer to Tolkien's vision, both in physical appearance and performance.

  • July 19, 2012, 4:46 a.m. CST

    Frodo is an EMO bitch

    by Wyrdy the Gerbil

    So Jackson made changes from the book to film and though most of them are fucking mystifying i can mostly see past them and enjoy the films for what they are..a great but flawed adaptation ...but one thing that has always annoyed the fuck out of me that i find extremely hard to let pass is why Frodo is made to look like a wimpy sad eyed emo mofo in the films when in the books he`s badassed as hell ....on Weathertop and at the ford of Rivendell its Frodo that stands his ground and faces down the Grey riders(nazgul) at Weathertop not Strider and Frodo at the ford that turns to face them a second time not Arwen(Glorfindel "sigh") its not until Frodo and Sam actually enter Mordor that the weight/burden of the ring begins to overwhelm him but for all three films Frodos character is made to look wimpy and weak

  • July 19, 2012, 4:49 a.m. CST

    fucking edit button

    by Wyrdy the Gerbil

    at Weathertop not Strider ,,,,,and Frodo punctuation my cursed enemy

  • July 19, 2012, 7:14 a.m. CST

    talkbacker with no name

    by Nick Hansen

    Yeah sure maybe they are proud, maybe they're not. Who gives a shit? Not me. But I'm sure there's a few of my fellow cuntrymen who also think a good old fashioned round of face fucking would do Boyens a big favour and at least shut her up as they'd share in my cultural cringe everytime she craps on with lame story elements like um... I don't know: the entire lovely bones. Granted there'd be some Kiwis that like her too. That's called 'why the terrorists hate our freedom'. Anyway TB'ster me old chum, why such the wood for ole Vinegar Tits Boyens anyway? Hey if you love her so much, and also this strange - for AICN talkbacks at least - notion of 'not being a spiteful cunt' (that's half the fun of talkbacking)... Why don't you marry her and make little half kiwi twins and call them 'Feminine' and 'Spirit'? Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha how you like my d**k now?

  • July 19, 2012, 7:38 a.m. CST

    Uhhh, Sasquatch, Otto Preminger is NOT Gollum

    by D.Vader

    Brother Theodore was. You know, the creepy uncle in The Burbs. Otto Preminger played Thranduil.

  • July 19, 2012, 8:16 a.m. CST


    by m2298

    I agree that Jackson's Golum is closer to Tolkien's conception (at least the way he conceived him while writing LotR). From the text of just THE HOBBIT alone however(even the post-1951 version) I think there is enough ambiguity to depict him in varying ways. And Tolkien died in 1973, four years before the cartoon aired.

  • July 19, 2012, 8:19 a.m. CST


    by m2298

    I like Theodore's rendition of Gollum. I don't see how his vocals are un-Tolkien like.

  • July 19, 2012, 10:33 a.m. CST

    Sasquatch, that's cool

    by SergeantStedenko

    I thought you may be Sasquatch from Sasquatch and the Sickabillys, which by the way, if you are into Rockabilly, I highly recommend, especially live. The Saquatch is one sick individual. Also, Harry Nilsson is an amazing singer/songwriter. Have you checked out the documentary "Who Is Harry Nilsson (And Why Is Everybody Talkin' About Him)?" I believe it may still be streaming on Netflix.

  • July 19, 2012, 3:30 p.m. CST

    "Thin and emaciated," even as the size of a Hobbit

    by Liquid Meddle

    Wouldn't look like Jackson's goofy cartoon character in the movies. I don't believe for a second that this is what Mr. Tolkien envisioned. Even if the character wasn't a copy of the Rankin/Bass one, it could have looked much better using practical costume make-up effects, etc. Making him entirely CGI was just another "look what I did!" for Jackson.

  • July 19, 2012, 3:34 p.m. CST


    by Liquid Meddle

    You know? He's comedy! In the first Lord of the Rings, where you kind of briefly see him, was a little creepy. Then the Two Towers comes out and ..what the fuck?! He's the one character the audience _continually_ got a laugh out of. Fuck that. Peter Jackson has ruined my life.

  • The animated LOTR on the other hand is horrible.

  • July 20, 2012, 11:33 a.m. CST


    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    See, I do a lot of Elvis and Sun Records type stuff, but my music tends to be more rackety/ primitive on the Johnny Cash-side. I have none of that smoothness of a Chuck Berry or anything... When I do rockabilly, for me its a lot of Jerry Lee pounding away during a speed-binge.... Rockabilly purists would probably NOT dig my stuff. I don't have the haircut or have a tattoo of an 8-ball on my bicep, or wear denim or any of that shit, I'm just more closely related to Sun music... and Django... than any other influence. Beach Boys and The Monkees are also giants to me. When it comes to Harry... and yes I have seen that film, it is as WONDERFUL and heartbreaking a portrait of an artist as I have ever seen.... one of the things that's cool about San Francisco is that I saw that in the theater years before its release, when they were still working out the music rights When it comes to Harry, I site him as an influence because he's a man alone and in love with eccentric jazz sounds.... I do a lot of that singing along to my own overbubs thing, and can easily do alone in the studio 8 part Beach Boys harmony Harry was obviously in love with vaudeville-era Victrola throat-warblers, the matinee singers, and so am I. This is as CLOSE as I've been able to come to that sort of thing, granted I am limited by being totally untrained, a man alone & strapped mostly to other people's computers to make my music. computers, blah...

  • July 20, 2012, 11:40 a.m. CST

    oh yeah, Vader, you're right about Brother Theodore

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    I've always had it stuck in my head that Gollum was Preminger... the curious accent and all Brother Theodore btw, was a brilliant thinker and monologuist, I highly recommend his stuff on youtube. Talk show appearances and rantings, he was a real gem, and sadly almost forgotten now

  • July 20, 2012, 11:50 a.m. CST

    nobody's saying Rings needs to be more like Thrones, you pompous dumbass

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    people spin other peoples arguments on this site like it's the Bill O'Reilly show. we're saying.... okay, the word "Verisimilitude"? we're saying Rings should be less goddamn epic and shiny like a CGI Franklin Mint chess set... or whatever Renaissance Faire wankery the Molly Hatchet fans want it to be, and be at least, you know, believable, as an actual place, with it own mythic history and gravitas. Even a supposedly "shitty animated cartoon with childish songs" accomplishes the atmosphere better. The CGI is fucking spiked kool-aid. I imagine how Gollum would look had he been real, with actual light hitting his clammy amphibian skin in the harsh Middle Earth light... and I get chills. For once it would be nice if a movie kept its Marvelous Technical Achievements in the fucking background, so we could could have an actual story, not some movie you wanna hand out awards to and gasp at its breathtaking simulations of Pixelated Water, Pixelated Fire, Pixelated Dragons.... WHILE you're sitting in the theater watching the damn thing. Dragonslayer may have had a simple plot and a rushed climax, and a dragon that they showed on the screen very little.... But you watch that movie and you believe in that world utterly. Same with Thrones.

  • Jesus, you people spin arguments on this site worse than the Bill O'Reilly show. What they're saying is... Okay, there's this word... verisimilitude? They're saying it would be nice to have a world you could actually touch and feel instead of the CGI Franklin Mint Chess Set. I don't know what kind of classical wankery you renaissance faire nerds are after in your movie... But I read the books, too, and although they were a bit impenetrable and archaic sometimes, they still wove a realistic world. I mean, even in a movie that is supposedly -a shitty children's cartoon with terrible songs- they nail the atmosphere and magic better. The CGI is spiked kool-aid.... It's nothing but a transparent narcotic dust cloud to keep you going -oooh, ahhhh- For once it would be nice to see a modern fantasy that serves the Story, and not some movie that has you so gasping over the Marvelous Technical Achievements that you want to hand it awards for Best Pixelated Water, Best Pixelated Fire WHILE you're watching the damn thing. I think about how Gollum would have looked as a flesh and blood character, the harsh daylight of Middle Earth hitting his reptile skin- and I get chills Something like Dragonslayer, yes, okay... that movie had a rushed climax and a dragon who's barely on screen, but they created a REAL world, and they served the story, not just the eager sugar-hungry synapses of nerds.

  • July 20, 2012, 12:11 p.m. CST

    fuck i have no idea why that posted twice, sorry

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

  • July 20, 2012, 12:49 p.m. CST

    The only reason Game of Thrones doesn't use more CGI

    by Anthrax

    Is budget. The show is already incredibly expensive to produce as it is. I guarantee if they could spend twice as much per episode, you would see that much more CGI.

  • July 20, 2012, 1:53 p.m. CST

    anybody that even compares Tolkien's work to Game of Thrones is an idiot

    by ShakaLaka Lambo

    As Jules would say, "It ain't the same fucking ball park it ain't even the same fucking sport!" That hack crap on HBO (sorry Sean B. but it's true) has one thing in common with Pete's Films...swords. That's about it. The books of G.O.T. are better than the show but they still can't hold Tolkien's jock. Anybody that thinks they can are foolin themselves, or they're just sniffin bath salts or some crazy shit these kids are doing these days. By the way I told you Amazing would be a better movie than TDKR! Recognize.

  • July 20, 2012, 2:31 p.m. CST

    The only reason Game of Thrones doesn't use more CGI

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    Class. And restraint.

  • July 20, 2012, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Class and restraint?

    by Anthrax

    You have to be kidding. We're talking about a show that featured a CGI smoke monster flying out of a naked woman's vagina...

  • July 22, 2012, 12:41 p.m. CST

    class and restraint in terms of

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    Like LOST, having the effects budget there, but not tipping their hand at every chance they get like Megasaurus on the Sy Fy Channel. In Thrones, the land of Westeros is literally the main character of the plot, and they are wise enough to build actual locations and sets so that you have a believable sense of scale and magnitude. Like, If I go to a science fair, I want to see a terrarium some kid made out of cardboard and pipe cleaners, not a 3D model on a computer screen. Cinema to me is all eighth grade science fair, and nothing at all like the digital Candyland Hollywood thinks it should be. I can't believe that after doing effects for something like... "Master and Commander", that WETA is doing NO miniature work for this film. Is that true?? Can anyone confirm this? I can't fucking believe it.

  • Now THAT would be irony. Maybe they could be clad in LOTR garb.

  • July 29, 2012, 12:25 a.m. CST

    The Hobbit 3: Elevenses

    by Liquid Meddle