Comics

SPOILER ALERT! AICN COMICS/POPTARDS PODCAST: BATMAN EARTH ONE! WOLVERINE! HE-MAN! INFERNAL MAN-THING! BEFORE WATCHMEN: OZYMANDIAS! & MORE!

Published at: July 10, 2012, 7:54 a.m. CST by ambush bug

@@@ AICN COMICS PODCAST @@@

Ambush Bug here. The below hour-plus long conversation took place between myself and my fellow @$$holes Matt Adler, Optimous Douche, and our host Johnny Destructo of PoptardsGo.com as we talked about BATMAN: EARTH ONE Vol.1, WOLVERINE #310, BEFORE WATCHMEN: OZYMANDIAS #1, THE INFERNAL MAN-THING #1, HE-MAN & THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE #1, EARTH 2 #3, another rousing edition of @$$terpiece Theatre, and of course, more general jack@$$$ery!
 


Looks for more of the Holes rambling about comics on Poptards, follow us on Facebook here, and in future AICN COMICS columns!
 

Readers Talkback

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  • July 10, 2012, 7:55 a.m. CST

    Before Watchmen...

    by MonkeyFunker

    Why?

  • July 10, 2012, 8:27 a.m. CST

    BEFORE WATCHMEN: OZYMANDIAS #1

    by MainMan2001

    It's the best by far from the before watchmen. The art is beyond and the story is absolutely amazing. I loved it all.

  • July 10, 2012, 8:30 a.m. CST

    OZYMANDIAS is the coolest character and always was.

    by MainMan2001

  • July 10, 2012, 10:12 a.m. CST

    by 3774

    By reading insults from listeners targeting other listeners live, you're encouraging trolls to do more of the same, and migrate the worst of the talkbacks onto the show. I can't tell if this was lack of foresight, or intentional, to stir up a fight. An interesting point to note about the email: I've never once railed against Voodoo. But this was clearly a tactic by the listener to ingratiate himself and become 'one of the boys' by creating a 'us vs her', 'how about that crazy bitch, huh?' dynamic. When trolls would do their humiliate into silence routine, I would bail on the talkbacks entirely and just listen to the show. Now I can't even do that. A flamecast is not something I want to listen to, much less be the target of. If I'm being used simply as a victim to be strapped to a lightening rod to provide a sadistic lightshow, I'll just remove myself from the equation. I make it a point to live my life by staying *off* of poles.

  • July 10, 2012, 11:02 a.m. CST

    I Won't Profess to Speak For All of Us

    by optimous_douche

    Especially other listeners (if we have any), but I know I invoke your name for two reasons: One - X chromosome comic collectors are a rarity. And just as with life, the female perspective can be amazing enlightening. It can be amazingly infuriating as well, but what in life doesn't have a + and - Two - You're a prolific poster. I know you said you like to stay off the poles (great double entendre btw), but to be honest if you truly wanted to stay under the radar we wouldn't even know your name. I'm not saying that you're an attention whore by any stretch of the imagination, but you have created posts that stir controversy. I merely read the site for close to six years before I became a contributor. During that time, I never once even signed up for a user handle, I simply read. Trust me, I don't want to lose your active participation in this little group we have, I like to be challenged and made to think. But you can't raise noise on the Internet w/o expecting a little noise back. But I think in your heart you knew all of this already.

  • July 10, 2012, 11:21 a.m. CST

    I would go with "lack of foresight"

    by Poptard_JD

    It wasn't to stir up anything...It didn't really read as an insult to me, more of just being playful, kind of like Bug teasing you about The Night of 1000 Wolves thing..like a false rivalry. I prolly shouldn't have read it, just figured you would have a laugh at it, not take it seriously. :( I love having your correspondence with the show, that's obvious, since I'm having you ON the show next week. I also thought it would be something for you to respond to on the show next week. My bad.

  • July 10, 2012, 12:44 p.m. CST

    by 3774

    I actually went longer then that before posting (you and I are the same age, btw). But to be fair it's probably because I never even bothered reading the talkbacks before. Yes, the X perspective is rare. Probably not nearly as rare as the 16 intersexed varieties that lie between, though. My point being, there's always 'someone else', so to speak. 'Noise back' is understandable. But a 'perspective duel' with you guys, and dealing with trolls on the talkbacks, seems like enough. Turning email into a platform for insults is too much. I think in your heart you know this already. It's fine when you guys 'give me the business', because it usually feels good-natured, and it may be a delusion on my part, but I feel like we've more or less developed a rapport. I've grown to like you guys. A lot, actually. But I don't know him. Left-field cheap-shots at me from strangers through email isn't the same thing. I've never even railed against Voodoo before, so my guess is he's projecting anger at the cancellation. And neatly exposing himself in the process, since invalidating angry women (even invented angry women) by trying to cast them as 'crazy' is a tactic usually used by men who don't a clear perspective on their own behavior. I'm sorry if people are upset over their stripper comic being cancelled. But I didn't do it. And I couldn't care less.

  • July 10, 2012, 1:02 p.m. CST

    OK I Didn't Understand the Original Gripe

    by optimous_douche

    So that changes my response. Welcome to the price of fame my Pink friend. I get a slew of defamatory emails each and every week. Some are direct gripes to what I said, others are tangential inferences into what I said that only come to light after I shoot them an email back. Yes, you are suffering from a certain gender bias, but I urge you to look at Gloria Steinem, or the suffragists at the beginning of the last century. The minority always takes more lumps as we move towards equalization. Remember a bully never backs down, so whether JD intended to read the email or not, your response should not change. Also remember you sometimes have to lower yourself to the bully's level simply so they understand. Hey Fucker, I never said anything about voodoo, I hope one day you can afford a real stripper though.

  • Specifically DC's Mexican marketing. Someone please explain this to me (because economics is an empty void of non-existent knowledge for me). Why do people in Mexico only have to pay $1.10 per issue...the very same issues...that we pay $3.00 for? http://tinyurl.com/c5bsj6g The only thing I can think of is cheaper printing costs...but I'm not sure. I mean, if they're using a cheaper print company in Mexico, does that mean that eventually DC will have everything printed down there, and drop the price?

  • July 10, 2012, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Price Will Only Drop

    by optimous_douche

    The day we all start making Mexican wages. It's the same reason a comic didn't cost $3.00 back in 1967. That was like a day's wages back then. The market will dictate price, we are as guilty as DC and Marvel for the rising cost. If we all stopped buying tomorrow, they would drop the price guaranteed. The problem boils down to a coordinated boycott. You'll always have dick cheeses like myself with a nice disposable income and thus sees no need to storm the Bastille. I also believe though that comics have improved vastly in quality since the cheaper days and as such deserve a higher price point for the better talent. Not all will agree, but I would rather have a quality 22 pages than 80 pages of crap at a lower price.

  • July 10, 2012, 2:17 p.m. CST

    I completely forgot the wage factor...

    by 3774

    I just looked it up...a 'printing press official' can make about 80 pesos a day, or $6 US. http://tinyurl.com/7wrj2dt That's a lot worse than I thought down there.

  • July 10, 2012, 2:55 p.m. CST

    I Think That's What Printing Press Operators Now Make in the US as Well

    by optimous_douche

  • ...are cancelled as of October. And here I had just gotten back into F4, too.

  • July 10, 2012, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Feminism in comics

    by MattAdler

    I wonder if we could set aside maybe ten minutes of next week's podcast to discuss the role of women in comics fandom, and maybe some of the dos and don'ts that male readers should be aware of when it comes to dealing with our fellow female fans. Because I think sometimes we don't get how women can be made to feel unwelcome, even unintentionally.

  • July 10, 2012, 6:20 p.m. CST

    Ohhh I Think guys Get It Matt

    by optimous_douche

    Caring is the operative word here.

  • July 10, 2012, 6:33 p.m. CST

    by 3774

    That's a nice gesture, but I don't think it would do any good. These talkbacks are full of handles comprised of body parts, and full of people who do things like describe rape as 'hot', call me cunt and make fun of Nutmeg. There's your answer. It doesn't feel like a crowd that would be open-minded to having behavior pointed out. Call me cynical. Comics really are my first and foremost interest. I turned down JD's first offer because I didn't want to Yoko your mojo. I accepted this time, despite how it might turn out, but I just want to talk about comics. Whatever happens, happens, and if the trolling gets unbearable, ah well. There's plenty of other forums.

  • July 10, 2012, 6:48 p.m. CST

    pink

    by KCViking

    As a frequent reader and occasional commenter I'd like to say that I appreciate your perspective (for whatever that may be worth). Also, you may want to check out the Mystery Men trade that came out last week. Much better than The Twelve, which I believe you liked. Look forward to hearing the podcast next week.

  • July 10, 2012, 6:52 p.m. CST

    by 3774

    Sweet, thank you for the head's up. I'll check that out. I picked up the first three issues of Alabaster: Wolves last week. I missed them the first time, I think they're second printings. It's a five issue mini, and it is absolutely wonderful. Give it a flip if you get a chance.

  • July 10, 2012, 7:14 p.m. CST

    Let's just talk comics folks

    by Mr_Fancy_Pants

    I think if you specifically set aside time to teach the beasts some manners, they will politely walk into the living room and take a shit on your coffee table. I've never been offended listening to the podcast, but I have grown impatient a few times with how much time is spent belabouring a crass statement about sploog, anal rape or Vulcan speculum cesareans. Less is funnier to me. I wanna hear about the books. You guys are fucking great when the discussion stays somewhat focused. anyway, boo fucking hoo. I think it's awesome that Pink is making it on to the show next week! Talk about comics! And don't read the talk back afterwards for the sake of your coffee table. Whats this about books being cancelled?

  • July 10, 2012, 7:24 p.m. CST

    mr pants

    by KCViking

    It's part of the Marvel Now event happening this October. Kinda like their answer to the New 52.

  • July 10, 2012, 7:31 p.m. CST

    you can go to

    by KCViking

    the poptards site for more info. you're welcome jd :)

  • July 10, 2012, 8:09 p.m. CST

    I agree with Mr Pants...

    by MattAdler

    ...generally less is more. But everyone loved my Lizard/stranger joke in the ASM podcast, right? :) I thought the women in fandom discussion might be interesting, and might shed some light on a subject that is mysterious to a lot of guys... I think some guys genuinely are baffled when they meet a woman who shares their geekier interests, 'cause we're used to relating to them on a different level. So I thought that could be interesting, but I defer to the majority here.

  • Best book on the market right now!!! It's cool that Swamp Thing and Animal Man get annuals and Justice League Dark too But I want the excuse to waste more money when it comes to Wonder Woman. Best Wonder Woman stuff I've read so far and I've read a lot of it. From Perez all the way to that unfortunate Gail Simone stuff to JMS

  • ...you know, that moment where JD inserted some strange scene out a movie, with some guy talking about grooming himself or some weird thing. I don't know where it was from originally, but the whole moment was so bizarre inter-played with you guys that I couldn't stop laughing. My boyfriend wandered in and asked 'what the hell was I listening to', and I literally couldn't explain it. So he just left. Matt, like most others I generally hang out in 'safe' websites and forums that are women-friendly. Go check out a website called 'Escher Girls' if you want to see just how pervasively stupid artists draw women in comics. They take some of the worst examples and then reconstruct them to more accurate dimensions, and the effect can be startling. Or go visit 'Less Tits and Ass, More Kickin' Ass'for an overall grab-bag of topics. Or there's one of my personal favs, DC Women Kicking Ass. Scroll through the threads there and you'll quickly get informed of things. Sometimes some TB-type troll-clown will show up to 'rile the bitches' and pee on the lawn, but they get their ass banned pretty quick. Sometimes without the policy warning, because fuck them.

  • Just don't be a jerk and be entitled because you're a girl into something geeky crap or a guy who is into girl interests...but this is a message board and that's how most people are when it comes to the internet. It's also unfortunately where people call each other ridiculous names giving the entitled jerks more ammo. But oh well. We can't have everything.

  • July 10, 2012, 9:04 p.m. CST

    Rorschach is the most relatable Watchman too...

    by Greg Nielsen

    I mean seriously dude just doesn't like bad guys and while everyone else is busy being lame and mopey he's going out trying to fix everything. In fact, he's the smartest guy in Watchmen until the plot suddenly requires him to be stupid towards the end.

  • July 10, 2012, 9:32 p.m. CST

    Artarded Marvel, American Psycho, Genitals

    by optimous_douche

    Another fucking reboot Marvel. Really? I can't think of one business strategist that would recommend aping the competition. Not one...you do different, you do better. I'm more disillusioned than angry. The clip JD played was American Psycho for the fact I find Ozymandius relatable. I was half kidding. Genitals. Men and Women perceive things differently including comics. I'm not sure we need to separate this point out specifically though, since if we're any good at what we do (all right I know good is relative) this perceptual other side will come out organically.

  • Jason Bateman yeah he's relatable...sorta But American Psycho and The Watchmen are just not really at all. But if I had to choose one probably Rorschach just cause every day at work you're just trying to get things done and some bimbo and a fat guy can't bother to help you out and everyone else dresses just as poorly as them and does nothing too while some nutcase at the top make bizarre decisions.

  • July 10, 2012, 10:44 p.m. CST

    Sales question

    by KCViking

    Has the DC reboot generated the sales enough to warrant Marvel aping the competition? I'm curious... yorgo- what makes WW so good? I'm kinda excited that Marvel has Rocket Racoon on the image with the big hitters. Sometimes it's the little things. :)

  • ...meaning it will continue forward with established storylines. Just with....you know....a whole bunch of number 1s. I'm under the vague impression that this will be something like the fourth issue number 1 for Captain America in just a handful of years. That's bound to irritate someone, I would imagine....

  • It's kinda like Greg Rucka's run in that there is a lot of the Greek gods at war with various people. Unlike Greg Rucka's run though, it's actually really fast paced. Plus, it takes advantage of the medium to give some really crazy visuals. The underworld Hades control is literally made out of souls. So they're walking on people. Poseidon is giant blow fish in the Thames river. They haven't admitted it yet but the Big British guy with her whose name unfortunately escapes me is clearly Wonder Boy all grown up. Plus, it's so well drawn between Tony Akins and Cliff Chiang. It's not cheesecake and it's not going out of it's way to pretend they aren't drawing a woman in a flag swimsuit fighting monsters either. I think the trick is that Azzarello is just taking really outlandish ideas, which is all it is, and just setting it out there. You can accept it or not. He's not gonna wink or at least he hasn't so far. I think the biggest problem with Wonder Woman is that most people just don't want to write her. They want to write a different female character and they paste that onto the character. So far that hasn't happened.

  • July 11, 2012, 3:06 a.m. CST

    Pink_Apocalypse, JD, and the rest...

    by Emiliano

    Wow! If there is something I didn’t expect was that a small, off-the-cuff moment was going to turn into such an issue. Still, I feel a couple of comments would be appropriate (although that thinking didn’t end up helping me all that much when I wrote to the Podcast this week). Anyway, here it goes. JD – My most sincere apologies to you. You were absolutely right. I was being playful. My comment on PA wasn't meant to stir up anything, insult, or put down anyone, much less PA, whose comments I enjoy during the show when she writes. I was just being playful, and getting into the groove of talking to other people about comics, and their opinions on them. At this moment, I still think it wasn’t in any way insulting, but obviously people have the right to take a comment however they want when it is made about them. I’m just sorry it got you in “trouble” and for that, I apologize to you. I think you do a fantastic job moderating the Podcast, and you and the guys make me laugh hard most every week, which is something I wouldn’t like to stop anytime soon. Optimous_Douche – Really? A stripper? In this economy? I need my money for comic books, son. Still, thank you for both your answers. They were both kind of right. And last, but most assuredly, not least… Pink_Apocalypse - You are absolutely right, I don’t know you. You’re just another “voice” in the internet, another person who wants to make her opinion known and, like I mention before, I have enjoyed those opinions in plenty of occasions. That being said, not only was my comment not meant to be insulting, but I believe most of yours, “defending” yourself against some good natured ribbing, actually were. Being accused of being a “troll”, “projecting anger” (sorry, Voodoo was good enough for me to even project “caring” at the cancellation) and not having a “clear perspective” on my own behavior, both sound like pretty harsh comments from a) someone who doesn’t know me at all, and b) who is actually complaining about being a victim of that same type of behavior. (Oh, and thanks! Optimus_Douche for adding “bully” to the fray. Man, words ARE powerful, aren’t they?) Fact is, if you had just said you didn’t appreciate the comment, I would have been fine with it, apologize to you (again, I don’t know you and I absolutely apologize for the very-small joke), and go ahead to my next post/letter. Now, after your various posts on the subject, and this might be a very unpopular opinion in here, I believe you’re portraying yourself as much more of a victim that you actually were. I have three daughters that I love, and respect, and would protect to my dying breath against anything I consider harmful, and I still disagree with half of your opinions when you talk about the state of women in the comics, much as I enjoy listening to them. I didn't attack you, I didn't insult you, I didn't implied you were half the horrible person you seem to want to believe I am. That being said, I believe that comics HAVE made women powerful along the years, and have had a very positive influence in little girls out there that wanted to be Wonder Woman or Batgirl. Have they been portrayed different along the years? Yes, they have changed and they have grown and they have backtracked here and there. Have there been times when writers have portrayed them in a way that we might be offended by? I’m sure. You know what? I don’t think those portrayals did anything to change girls/women lives out there, and even though I think a comic book might inspire a little girl/boy to become more than they are occasionally, I don’t think a comic book is going to make them become a stripper or show their breasts to other people. That’s what parents’ teachings are there for. So, if a comic book sells because it has big-breasted women on the cover, more power to them. The industry is hurting, and any sale is good if they are going to keep producing them. I rather they sold for good writing and not for the good art, but there you go. Some people are more visual than others, and I don’t think taking all the comics that portray women as sex-symbols is going to help our society any if parents are not the ones in control of making those decisions. In that subject, both you and Dr. Fredric Wertham are wrong. In other words: a) If it offends you, don’t buy it. This IS a capitalistic system. You vote with your wallet. b) If you make comments in the Internet, expect responses. Not everyone will agree with you (crazy as that might sound) c) if someone makes a joke you don’t like, give them the chance to apologize and move on. We are not in third grade anymore. One more thing: The reason I enjoy, truly enjoy the Poptards Podcasts is because they feel like a real conversation. A no-holds-barred, everything goes discussion in which the guys say whatever comes to mind and real opinions, as opposed to following a specific agenda (other than entertainment) or being permeated by political correctness (like so many other things are in our lives these days). These guys say what they think, and that’s what makes the show son interesting and, more often than not, hilarious. If I were to be offended because they call someone “black”, or “homo” or, I don’t know, as “stripper”, I couldn’t listen to show, and I would be missing one hell of a good one just because of my own issues. I think “Political Correctness” is one of the worst (stupid) things to ever happen to this country. When you curtail speech to pander to someone who MIGHT be offended, you are curtailing speech, and there are very few things in a society that are worse than that. I like JDs Podcasts as uncensored as they have been since I have been listening to them, and I hope they remain that way. I love comic books, the bad with the good, taking all the chances possible and writing and drawing for adult audiences as well as for kids. I hope they remain that way, too.

  • July 11, 2012, 3:24 a.m. CST

    The first issue of Voodoo was when I knew that thing was doomed...

    by Greg Nielsen

    The Redhood thing had happened and everyone was pretending to be a lot higher and mightier than what they were. Then the comic turned into what it is now and it's sadly getting cancelled. I haven't read it lately and I'm sure it's as good as it could be given the editorial limits and other situations at hand but that book was definitely something when it's first 4 issues written and plotted by Marz came out.

  • Too late though she's in Grifter.

  • July 11, 2012, 7:30 a.m. CST

    Icarus

    by optimous_douche

    Bravo sir. But I like your real name better, foreign and all. If the show ever does get a politically correct Bug up it's ass (as opposed to the Ambush Bug we gladly shove up our asses) lil ole Optimous will be outy boombatty faster than you can say, "A midget jew walks into a bar with a dead stripper under one arm and a Puerto Rican carrying hubcaps under the other."

  • July 11, 2012, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Whatever happens before WATCHMEN, I know what happens after.

    by Autodidact

    They rape Alan Moore and degrade the entire comics art form.

  • For most products, prices are not primarily related to cost... prices are set at the optimal intersection of supply and demand. You charge as much as you can without lowering overall revenue (basically profit/issue x issues sold... find the highest #... if you could sell one issue for $1million, then $1million would be the cover price because 100,000 copies at $3 is not as profitable. Conversely if you could sell 1.1 million copies at $1/issue, $1 would be the cover price. Most comics are still printed in Canada, which means the books are shipped further to the USA, and the Canadian dollar is more or less at parity with the US dollar in value, but for some reason we pay a bit more per copy than the USA. $3 comics probably don't sell enough copies in Mexico, so the price is lower. Here in USA/Canada, we pay more.

  • July 11, 2012, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Wow that was pretty scattered

    by Autodidact

    I kinda gave up on typing that halfway through, thinking why am I explaining econ 101 to strangers on the internet... pls excuse the discombobulation.

  • July 11, 2012, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Icarus.

    by 3774

    PS: Remember that words have power, and be careful. I believe that Pink Apocalypse is one big-breasted comic panel discussion away from a nervous breakdown. Seriously guys, who would have thought that a comic like Voodoo could be hazardous to someone's health.

  • July 11, 2012, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Icarus.

    by 3774

    - Remember that words have power, and be careful. I believe that Pink Apocalypse is one big-breasted comic panel discussion away from a nervous breakdown. Seriously guys, who would have thought that a comic like Voodoo could be hazardous to someone's health. - There's nothing about this that can be interpreted as 'playful', particularly coming from a stranger. You got called out on it. The guys recognized that. And it bit you in the ass. And now you're attempting the one-two, 'I apologize, but not really, because I'm really a good person, and you're exactly what I said you were (crazy), and anyway I was just joking, even though I wasn't.' You literally hit all the cliche 'upset male in privilege' notes used by people who have no idea. 'You're casting yourself as a victim'. Check. 'If you don't like it, don't buy it.' Check. 'Political correctness is horrible'. Check. Ah, 'politically correct'....where would people be without this wonderful little red herring. What other re-engineered phrase could manipulate and re-frame political struggles for equality into a nefarious 'culture war' that 'infringes on one's right' to 'harmlessly express themselves'? You have every right to support and use words like 'nigger', 'faggot', 'cunt' if you like. You can't dance around it with words like 'Black', 'homo' or 'stripper'. If you're going to rail against the 'evils of political correctness' you are arguing for it all. You can't be selective just to make your 'culture war' argument more palatable. Invoking Wertham for some sort of intellectual cred and then trying to attach him to anything I've said, is just sad. None of his claims on the effects of depicted violence were ever substantiated by scientific methods, nor did he ever conduct research that could be verified or replicated...which is why is ideas on such were professionally rejected until his death. To be fair to the man, he was freaked out that what he saw happen in Germany in the 30's (desensitization & dehumanization) could happen in the US. But ultimately, his ideas fall in the same wishful realm alongside 'scientists' who belong to 'The Creation Institute'. Contrary to pop culture magazine articles, depictions of violence have yet to actually be definitively linked to violent behavior. I've read dozens and dozens of academic papers spanning about 30 years. Believe me, they've tried. Presentation of Women in media on the other hand, HAS been definitively, repeatedly, and conclusively linked to serious, wide-spread psychological harm in women and girls. It's not an 'opinion' for you to have, as desperately as you may want it to be, and it's not my job to educate you on that fact if you deny it. Much like when confronted with a creationist who insists the earth is only a few thousand years old, there's nothing productive to do but simply shrug and say, 'you're wrong'. Completely, and categorically wrong. Hypersexualized images in comic books don't 'make women become strippers', although you're trying to infer that as my belief. What it DOES do is contribute to overall Western culture marketing that uses sex to sell. This tide of information that is impossible to escape from has a profound impact people's psychology - whether they realize it or not, and whether they want to admit it or not. Unless you're talking about living completely disconnected in an Amish community, YOU don't have the power to shield your children from it. They're going to be bombarded with it, whether you like it or not. the best you can hope to accomplish is to slightly restrict the most severe input where you can, and coach their self-esteem as much as possible to lessen the impact. Your myopic view has unfortunately led you to defend something that's contributing to that tide. I point out the crass and alienating affect with many comics because I *love* comics that don't. If you'll forgive the bluntness, your logic for supporting a dying industry is as ass-backward as it can get: 'If sex sells, keep doing it. We need all the sales we can get.' Yes....continue to completely ignore and willfully put-off half of the entire population, rather than try to bring them on board. That makes sense. Because all current comic readers will....stop buying them if the blatant sexualization stops? Sure. For this specific issue, to say 'it's the parent's problem' is to say 'tough shit'. Tough shit to little girls being sexualized. Tough shit to women being infantilized. Tough shit to 20 million women with eating disorders (and now up to 2 million men). Tough shit for girls without fathers to support their self-esteem. And tough shit to the mothers having their own psychology bombarded while trying to protect their child. That's just not me. I'm going to point things out and voice concerns when I can.

  • July 11, 2012, 12:18 p.m. CST

    My Two Cents (again)

    by optimous_douche

    I'm walking away from the whole calling out during the Podcast - I think it's a molehill that has now become an unnecessary mountain. I understand Pink's issues, but I also do believe it was playful banter from Icarus, the context has been completely misconstrued since then. I don't think the problem of sex sells can be aimed directly at the West Pink. I would say anywhere, but Middle Eastern cultures use this model and they have since...ohhh...I don't know...the beginning of time. We're simply more cognizant of it today because of our ready access to media. And in those Middle Eastern countries where sex is taboo women get their noses cut off if their Burka dips below eye level. That's probably not a good choice either. Here's the problem with the feminist movement and the bastardization that is political correctness. Every person has a lizard brain, that primordial part of us that relies solely on instinct over reason. Society has been trying to quell that lizard brain since Moses told us to stop fucking in the dessert and get moving towards water cultivatable land. The male lizard brain and female lizard brain are in stark contrast to one another, it is what has allowed the population to flourish and at the same time be constrained. Men are visual creatures, it's simply how we are stimulated. Women want to attract mates, to do this they must make themselves visually appealing. The pussification of men in the 70s will have you believe that all they wanted was a friend and understanding, but that's bullshit. If that were the case Linda Lovelace never would have had a career. Men NEED to be men. We used to be able to do this everywhere because it was solely a man's world. That's not the case anymore, and I don't think it's a bad thing. However, we still need our bastions of debauchery - whether it's a strip club, a web site or dare I say a comic book. And dare I say there are large swaths of women who appreciate this fact. Then there are large swaths of women who simply want us to turn this off. Who is being more realistic here, the person who doesn't fight nature but tries to contain it or the person who completely wants to obliterate instinct. What feminism should have taught was not the demonizing of male instinct, but rather the polite request to keep it to ourselves until it is asked for. Mrs. Douche and I came to this understanding a long time ago. She doesn't like the fact I look at porn, but she also doesn't want to have sex 32 times a week and that a bear I become a nasty bear when I start to get "pent up." So basically I use my alone time to "be a man" and ensure I don't leave thin-bitches-with-big-tits.com up on the screen after I'm done. Let us have booby comics, but also let us have comics women enjoy? Why don't more women create more comics for women.? Hell, men might even enjoy some of them. I like porn directed at ladies, I think I would like some lady comics as well. We need our bastions both men and women. We need to come together as well, but tat requires both genders to appreciate and UNDERSTAND the other - not try to change one another.

  • July 11, 2012, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Optimus.

    by 3774

    Arguing that 'other cultures have done it' may appear to be an immediate, obvious answer to some, but not only is it the wrong answer, it's answering the wrong question. It falsely equates 'feminism' (actually some demonized idea of it) with 'anti-sex'. That's a flat-out lie perpetuated by conservative circles. The problem is with *objectification*, not sex itself. It's maddening that so many people don't seem to grasp this. To use a foreign cultures that *are* relevant, take countries like Sweden for example, or large parts of Europe until recently, when it began being overtaken by the American model of advertising. They were/are quite comfortable with sex, and nudity, even within the public framework of media advertisements. But they used *real people*, women and men, attractive or not, who actually exist and can look like any number of people you see each day. And no measurable harm was done. Modern media has changed all that. They now construct photoshopped, Frankenstein-esque images that not only focus on women as solely 'things', but construct them artificially with waists, breast, legs, and body parts that literally *can't exist* in reality, which sets up a constant bombardment of imagery all girls and women measure themselves against, can't hope to attain, and adversely affect their self-esteem as men measure them against these impossible fantasy images. That's why it hasn't been a problem for some other cultures, as previously mentioned. This 'objectify', literally 'turn into an object' means removal of any actual human traits, but is made worse when the 'object' (let's say a comic book character) speaks and acts in ways that simply fulfill men's fantasies, rather than reflect a believable female character. It's not, 'OHS NOES, she's having sex, get a pitchfork!' It's oh, look at that. She looks like her spine is snapped in half for the pose, her impossibly-sized tits would break her back, and she's talking in an infantilized way. The *sex* or so-called *sexuality* isn't the problem. The *objectification* is. Does that make sense? Depicting sexuality itself is another argument entirely. There are feminist arguments pro and con pornography, and there are 'morally righteous' arguments entirely against sexual depictions in any form. I currently reject both. Some aspects of pornography are very troubling (statistically speaking, it's gotten wildly degrading and violent in the last 10 years, with slapping, spitting, etc) but I haven't seen enough researched-evidence of negative effects to oppose it. As far as sexuality in media goes, I fully support it, *if done in a way that doesn't objectify*. I'm not sure if saying, 'why can't we have both' (comics for women vs comics for men) takes any of that into account. For one, it's a 95% majority making an appeal to the 5% minority, as if giving any ground would be a 'loss', which is weird. For another, feminism isn't about 'changing' men, or getting them to stop being obsessed with sex. Go right ahead and love sex. I love sex. Who doesn't? Feminism for me is about fighting objectification, or trying to get MEN to stop changing US. I don't know if any of this is getting through, but I tried. I have a plea for you. Go here. http://tinyurl.com/6ro4ut9 I know it's an old comic (new and old examples are sent in all the time). But do you seriously think the comic industry would be hurt if this kind of thing stopped? If women were drawn realistically, and with characterizations that felt true, rather than just sounding or acting like something men wished they were? It's not all hopeless. Some progress is being made, outside of the comic book realm. http://tinyurl.com/6ovqxaw Maybe the industry will change enough for women to feel welcome, and then we'll get all those 'missing female creators' that you wonder why are absent.

  • July 11, 2012, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Since there are no reviews this week...

    by Homer Sexual

    Ima chime in here. I cant listen to podcasts at work. I guess I could try from home. I prefer reading, really... Im weird like that. Without hearing, it doesn't seem like a real attack against Pink, just by reading it. But then as a big homo poster, I would also be an easy and maybe sensitive target to being "attacked"... Pink, I think they didn't mean to offend you, even though that's what they did. Then OD goes and talks about lizard brain and pussification of men. I think pussification of men might apply to me. But then I find it an offensive comment in a way. Also inaccurate because men were muy macho in the 70's, it seems like. I loved VooDoo when it was a "stripper" comic, although that wasn't a big part of it. Leifeld's original Voodoo was wayyy more fo a sexualized helpless female, hated her and only cuz I bought all the #1 issues did I realize it was really good. But editorial mandated a change which made the book nothing special, so I guess Im not as bummed about its cancellation as I would have been. I just hope they tie up the story line. And Marvel's relaunch may be a reason to lessen my Marvel buying. A whole bunch of books with the "Movie Avengers" is super duper not my cup of tea....

  • July 11, 2012, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Pink Apocalypse

    by Emiliano Feliberti IV

    This is not me fighting my dads battles by any means, I just wanted say something. If you don't understand the playfulness in 'one big-breasted comic panel discussion away from a nervous breakdown', perhaps you should remove the stick firmly planted up your ass. You'll focus better. "If I'm being used simply as a victim to be strapped to a lightening rod to provide a sadistic lightshow, I'll just remove myself from the equation. I make it a point to live my life by staying *off* of poles." Man, you're so empowered and awesome, you don't take shit from anyone. You've now proven yourself superior by putting down a fellow listener over a nothing comment. I think the media hurts women in obvious ways too. They make impossibly perfect images of ladies and tell little girls that "there's a princess in all of you" , you actually had a few good points. But I can't bring myself to be on your side because it was over THIS. Pick your battles. My sisters, by the way, have grown up to be pretty god damn clever, happy too. I don't think their exposure to comic books with DRAWINGS of large breasts has affected their lifestyle too much. But they're not "crazy" either. Or babies. I'm sorry if my sarcasm has offended you. P.S. Bitch

  • July 11, 2012, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Fair Enough Pink - And Homer One Point

    by optimous_douche

    I understand your argument better now. The only thing I think I disagree with is that it feels like you're blaming men for the current thinspo craze. We have our fair share of things to live up to as well. I dropped 45 pounds this year because I felt like a fat fuck compared to what I see in media. The bitch of it though, I feel 1000 times better than I did before. So, why do we have this ideal if it's so evil? Why does the modern empowered woman give a fuck what guys want? I don't think they put themselves through these masochistic exercises of weight loss for men, I think just like when girls get all gussied up for clubs they do it more to compete against other women. To be the top princess in the palace if you will. It's just a theory, but one I think that holds water. And Homer, men were very pussified in the 70s, simply take a minute to listen to the song stylings of Dan Fogleberg and you'll get what I mean.

  • And kudos for calling me a 'bitch'. You have me wriggling in the crushing grasp of your inescapable logic. Your father must be so proud.

  • July 11, 2012, 6:02 p.m. CST

    Dan Fogelberg, meet Justin Bieber...

    by Homer Sexual

    Or Michael Buble. Or even, though he's a better artist, Jason Mraz. Im sure I could think of more examples from other decades too if I weren't high. Also, the 70's had Burt Reynolds, Kris Kristofferson, Clint Eastwood and Charles Bronson as big stars. I was a little kid then, I feel like if I were 10-15 years older I couldve really experienced the last time America was fun. See, I am the opposite of politically correct, which the seventies weren't. But I hate sexism, etc as well when its serious. The seventies had a lot of sexual freedom and movies were very gutsy, most of the best movies anyone names all came from that time. Also women could headline movies. Despite the fact that women in general weren't as equal. Nowadays, there is so much more racial and sexual equality but everything is uptight and the movies... sigh... they just SUCK and seem only for teens and idiots. I know I soulnd all self righteous but really.... The 70's had some guts.

  • See I told u if u read it you would do a complete about-face and love it!

  • July 12, 2012, 7:30 a.m. CST

    I'm 98% sarcasm! Curse my weak mind!

    by Poptard_JD

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