Movie News

Paul Verhoeven Has A JESUS Movie In The Works, To Be Scripted By Roger Avary

Published at: June 20, 2012, 8:12 a.m. CST

Nordling here.

He's talked about making a movie on the life of Jesus Christ for years, but it appears that Paul Verhoeven has his financing in place and also a screenwriter, according to Deadline.  His Christ story won't be so much about the miracles or his divinity, but more about how Jesus changed the political scheme in Israel at the time.

Verhoeven wrote JESUS OF NAZARETH, which supposes that instead of a divine birth, Jesus was the product of a rape by a Roman soldier.  As a prophet, Jesus railed against the Roman Empire and was crucified because of his radical politics, and Verhoeven spent years researching the subject.  Now he has a financial backer in Chris Hanley (Muse Productions) and Roger Avary of PULP FICTION will be doing the script.

I can see the jokes coming now, considering who Verhoeven and Avary are, but apparently this is a very serious subject for the director, and I think he'll treat this obviously sensitive subject fairly.  You don't have to share Paul Verhoeven's worldview on the subject, and I'd imagine that easily offended people should likely just steer clear.  According to the Deadline article. Verhoeven intends on making a film about the power of Jesus's sacrifice without the miracles surrounding it, and that "...it’s not about miracles, it’s about a new set of ethics, an openness towards the world, which was anathema in a Roman-dominated world. I believe he was crucified because they felt that politically, he was a dangerous person whose following was getting bigger and bigger. Jesus’ ideals are about the utopia of human behavior, about how we should treat each other, how we should step into the shoes of our enemy."

Nordling, out.  Follow me on Twitter!

Readers Talkback

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  • June 20, 2012, 8:13 a.m. CST

    Avary is out of the slammer?

    by P

  • June 20, 2012, 8:14 a.m. CST

    Jesus:The first zombie.

    by Eric

  • I Can't belive it. There is a movie that is coming out in 2013 saying Jesus and his disciples were gay! There is already a play that went on for a while,but never stopped! Maybe we can all do something! Please send this to ALL of your friends to sign to stop the movie from coming out. Already certain areas in Europe have started to ban it from coming to their country and we can stop too! We just need a lot of signatures and you can help! Please do not delete this! Deleting it will show your lack of faith and a lack of respect for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who died for us! Please help!

  • June 20, 2012, 8:15 a.m. CST

    rev_skarekroe, you so silly.

    by P

  • June 20, 2012, 8:19 a.m. CST

    Nonsense! We all know Jesus was a ten foot tall alien albino!

    by blackmantis

  • June 20, 2012, 8:20 a.m. CST

    Learning morals from a crazy person

    by MemBirdman

    That's where I always go for conscience-building, a guy that says he's God's son. I mean, if that's where Verhoeven is starting, his words with no miracles attached, he's basically following the lead of a seriously psychotic dude.

  • June 20, 2012, 8:22 a.m. CST

    Yawn

    by Pete Michaelson

    Another Hollywood attack on Christian beliefs. Honestly, let's see them try this with Islam. Depict Muhammed as a man without divine inspiration and make the case that he was a political advocate rather than a prophet. Look, I am not a Christian. I don't believe that the Bible is a divine book written by God and handed to man as a literal historical record of the world. You can bash on Christianity all day long; I just think that you're a disingenuous pussy if you don't afford other religions the same treatment. Christians don't want gay people to get married; Muslims want them stoned to death in the street. Which religion should we be railing against more strenuously here?

  • Great to hear verhoven may be back but Jesus, Verhoven AND Avary. I may see trouble ahead!

  • June 20, 2012, 8:23 a.m. CST

    BITCHES LEAVE!

    by FlickaPoo

  • June 20, 2012, 8:24 a.m. CST

    Jesus Saves (Slayer)

    by Cysquatch

    You go to the church, you kiss the cross You will be saved at any cost You have your own reality Christianity You spend your life just kissing ass A trait that's grown as time has passed You think the world will end today You praise the lord, it's all you say Jesus saves, listen to you pray You think you'll see the pearly gates When death takes you away For all respect you cannot lust In an invisible man you place your trust Indirect dependency Eternal attempt at amnesty He will decide who lives and dies Depopulate satans rise You will be an accessory Irreverence and blasphemy Jesus saves, no need to pray The gates of pearl have turned to gold It seems you've lost your way Jesus saves, no words of praise No promised land to take you to There is no other way

  • June 20, 2012, 8:24 a.m. CST

    Jesus!

    by Etienne72772

    Actually, it seems to me that the Romans were rather indifferent to Jesus, and it was the Jewish ruling class that felt the most threatened. Pontius Pilate actually tries to talk the Jews out of the crucifixion, but the Jewish leaders insisted on it. But I get that from the Bible. I wasn't aware there were any other sources for the story, except theories and speculation. Be that as it may, nobody needs to ban anything. If your faith is strong, then no need to worry about a movie that presents an alternate interpretation. If you are so scared of this, then confront it head and openly debate it, not bury it. But be prepared for the onslaught from all corners of the religious world to ban it. And with extremism, the filmmakers lives could be at risk, sorry to say. Same with Last Temptation of Christ, which was actually quite a beautiful and moving alternative account of the last few days of Christ's life. But it focused on Christ's humanity, and less on his divinity so people were up in arms.

  • June 20, 2012, 8:24 a.m. CST

    LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. YOU HAVE 20 SECONDS TO COMPLY.

    by FlickaPoo

  • June 20, 2012, 8:26 a.m. CST

    membirdman

    by FilmBuf82

    I completely agree with the fact that you either must believe he was the son of God, or a complete lunatic. I believe the former, but I do agree with the fact that he didn't preach new "morals" but to me polarizing truth, or to others lunacy.

  • June 20, 2012, 8:30 a.m. CST

    Verhooven already made his Jesus film and it was called Robocop.

    by Stalkeye

    On the 3 Disc DVD Box set;He refered to Murphy/Robo as the "American jesus" during that scene in which he approached Boddicker and said "I'm not arresting you anymore'. One of the best lines from the Movie.

  • June 20, 2012, 8:35 a.m. CST

    look harder claxdog, because there is proof

    by alienindisguise

  • June 20, 2012, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Conssidda datta crewsufikshun

    by Klytus_I.m_Bored

  • June 20, 2012, 8:41 a.m. CST

    filmbuf82

    by MemBirdman

    Liar, lunatic or Lord. It's a bit of a cliche in Christian circles, but it is true. I'm one of those vile Evangelical Christians who actually believes that Christ is the Son of God, so I've made my stand. But ultimately, I put that up there because of the truth in Verhoeven's "research." If you take away all of Jesus' divinity but leave all his words and other actions, then you've got a borderline bi-polar schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur and a messiah complex. In other words, a person who doesn't deserve to get as much credit as he's been given.

  • June 20, 2012, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Seriously?

    by Jay Garrick

    Is it just me, or does this just seem like Hollywood taking another easy pot shot at Christians. Oh, real gutsy guys...I'm waiting for the day some movie executive greenlights a film that dares "insult" Islam. Oh, that's right, Christians are easy targets and don't generally issue fatwas or lay down death sentences for insults to their prophet.

  • June 20, 2012, 8:44 a.m. CST

    Jesus in the Marvel Movie Universe!

    by Matthew

    God banishes Jesus to Earth, primitive man views science as magic

  • June 20, 2012, 8:45 a.m. CST

    Was jesus realy gay in verhovens book..holy fuck thats awefull

    by TheAwareness

    has anyone here read it?

  • June 20, 2012, 8:51 a.m. CST

    this is the hispanic jesus

    by Matthew

    the J is pronounced like an H, will star Cheech Marion, jesus had a low rider

  • FRANKENCHRIST!!!!!!! YOU DRANK HIS BLOOD!!!!! YOU ATE HIS FLESH!!!!!! NOW---- IT'S HIS TURN!!!!! HE'S BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!!! AND LUSTING FOR YOUR SOUL!!!!!! COMING SOON TO A THEATER OR DRIVE-IN --- NEAREST TO YOU!!!!!!! NO ONE ADMITTED AFTER THE FIRST 20 MINUTES!!!!! FREE CRUCIFIXES AND VIALS OF HOLY WATER TO ALL TICKETHOLDERS!!!!! DO NOT BE A SINNER!!!! BE THE FIRST TO SEE----FRANKENCHRIST!!!!!

  • June 20, 2012, 8:54 a.m. CST

    NOT taking shots at Christianity

    by MemBirdman

    I would agree with you if it seemed to present Jesus in a bad light. From what I'm seeing, he's just making a movie that's "his take" of who Jesus was and why the ripple effect is still felt today. I inherently disagree with his premise, but I don't see it as a slight against anyone of faith. Having said that...I agree with those who think that the bigwigs in the Christian ghetto will be reactionary and want it boycotted with no dialogue whatsoever.

  • June 20, 2012, 8:54 a.m. CST

    ^^^^OOPS- SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE WORDING^^^^^

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 20, 2012, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Not ANOTHER Jesus movie?! Jesus.....

    by grampageezer

    When are they going to make a movie showing Mary artificially inseminated by space aliens? And when the hybrid half-human, half-alien Jesus is "resurrected" after his crucifixion, is "beamed" aboard the returning alien's ship and returned to his people's home planet ? Actually, the best Jesus movie I've seen so far is 2007's "The Man From Earth".

  • the cathloc church began as a satanic secret society devoted to the eradication of his bloodline..

  • Maybe it could be awkwardly pitched as a prequel (ala ProMEHtheus) to one of the greatest, most understood, satirical films of all time -- SHOWGIRLS.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:04 a.m. CST

    yep

    by Party_Animal_IV

    Sorry brah, but the Jesus story doesn't belong exclusively to a cult of religious worshippers, whose views widely vary amongst their own ranks depending on whichever sect suits their sensibilities or by chance geographical location. Real or manufactured, it's an intriguing chapter of human history with genuine historic impact, and as such, is worthy examination from different perspectives. Perspectives such as Lee Demarbre's 2001 film Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter.

  • You are dumb.

  • PROMETHEUS!!!

  • June 20, 2012, 9:11 a.m. CST

    RE: party_animal_iv..

    by TheAwareness

    Another plank of wood amongst many floating down the mediocrity stream..who thinks he's smarter than what he is..the establishment loves you types because your the easiest to fool.because you believe you already know it all.. sorry for being so harsh

  • June 20, 2012, 9:11 a.m. CST

    Here's hoping he can get Ahnuld for a cameo

    by Samuel Fulmer

    Since they never got to do Crusade together after Cutthroat Island sank Carolco back in the mid-90's.

  • Dies, is resurrected, kills a bunch of people, walks on water at the end. (The "kills a bunch of people" would be the American part of the American Jeebus, I guess.)

  • The audience was greeted outside the theater by a gathering of sign holding protestors, trying to tell us that what we just saw was something we should not have seen because it was a bad film denigrating Christ. I spoke to memebers of this group for about half an hour---at one point one tough looking guy made a move at me like he wanted to punch me, how Christian of him, but someone else held him back. NONE OF THEM HAD SEEN THE FILM -- BUT THEY ALL KNEW IT WAS A BAD FILM!!!!!! Very interesting way of programmed thinking- or not thinking, that is. I asked a simple question of all of them who I spoke to who had not seen the film: Would you see the movie if I paid for the ticket? Guess what-- only one of them said yes.... I understand the value of faith and religion, the part that concerns itself with helping the sick and needy in times of trouble- but there are too many vocal Christians who make their faith seem so controlling, so close minded and therefore so unappealing- while demonstrating actions that are diametrically opposed to those beliefs. I yean for a world where religion is not necessary - for a world where the Golden Rule is practiced by all- and that would be enough for global peace and harmony. BUT- we have what we have. So organized religions and their dogma will always be with us- because, it seems, people would rather fight than switch. Thank you for attending today's sermon, bretheren. May your souls shine with the brightness of of all the suns in the universe!!!!! Be well, and remember to click and drive... or Frankenchrist will getcha!!!!

  • June 20, 2012, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Didn't Martin Scorsese already give us a 'miracleless" Jesus.

    by cookylamoo

    In "Last Temptation" I remember something like "Those Jugs are filled with water" "No, if you look, they're filled with wine" "Wow Jesus" That's a miracle!

  • so taking away the spiritual elements just makes the story dishonest from the gate.. also.. raped by roman solder gay.hippie jesus.. this mise well be a period telling/re-imagining of the David coresh story

  • I sincerely hope that the people who visit this thread have a sense of humor and aren't looking to just insult and fight, because that was not my intent... I apologize in advance to anyone who may not see the humor- everyone reacts differently. And so it was written. There has to be some reason why so many people want to see the sold out show BOOK OF MORMON- because it has a sense of humor....

  • June 20, 2012, 9:30 a.m. CST

    sorry for the typos- god made me make them...

    by Michael Lunney

  • ...to attack the faith of other people, while trying to shove their agendas and hatred down their throat. You people choke on your own bile trying to get the words out about how you don't believe and how "Christians are stupid." So predictable. So very pathetic.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:33 a.m. CST

    rev_skarekroe

    by Korrom

    Dude, what's wrong with you? Chill! A righteous little christian faithboy isn't afraid of a movie, is he?

  • We were just saying that it is interesting to examine it from a historical perspective. Just don't poke me in the eye with your picket sign while I'm standing in line to buy my ticket ;) And I will buy you ALL lunch the day a Verhoeven film wins best picture.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:36 a.m. CST

    Wookie/neon

    by MemBirdman

    Wookie: That's kinda the point. We suck and we need help sucking less. Neon: I generally agree, kinda. But to say Jesus' only talked about peace and love is inaccurate. God is the God of grace AND truth. The problem with many people who claim to be Christians is that they're willing to err on the side of truth because then it's something they can control.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:39 a.m. CST

    This book was SO poorly written

    by damagedinc

    Verhoeven was one of a few non-scholars that was part of a group of fringe scholars called the Jesus Seminar some 20 years ago. Their work, while sensationalistic and non-representative of the larger field, occasioned a greater reflection in the study of Jesus in both Second Temple Judaism and its Graeco-Roman context. But Verhoevan wrote while riding on the coattails of the lunatic fringe of New Testament scholarship. It is a synthesis that better reflects a highly selective use of secondary literature rather than demonstrating a clear grasp of the New Testament context or any sense of original thought. If he wanted to introduce this particular view of the life of Jesus to wider readership, more capable scholars have already done it more effectively and with better writing. This is one of the coolest areas that you can study. I read through a lot of Verhoevan's book with some interest given who he is but this emperor has no clothes on. Whatever he throws on the screen might be interesting and maybe compelling. The political context of Jesus' trial and execution within the wider world of Roman occupied Palestine is an interesting story. But a fringe director has siding with fringe scholarship won't do any favors in balancing worldviews

  • Not one thing. I knew it was directed by Marty and that Dafoe played Jesus. I was surprised when I saw Keitel pop up on the screen. The point is this: when Jesus comes back from the desert brandishing an axe, looking like he was ready to rage, I thought for fucking SURE that I was about to get "Jesus Christ - Murdering Jews With An Axe - The Movie." I remember saying out loud "I can see why people protested this movie!" In the end, I thought it was a beautiful, sad film. It was an interesting story, but nothing has ever convinced me that Jesus was able to make miracles happen, and this film (whether or not it was supposed to is besides the point) did nothing to change that. In the end, I think that if there was a God, it would make itself known in a way that was pretty much irrefutable - none of this fucking around, playing coy with us and expecting us to have "faith." After all, if it created us, it would know that we -- fuck it, I'm getting way too deep for this early in the morning. Bottom line: bring on the new Verhoeven film!

  • June 20, 2012, 9:41 a.m. CST

    He's Not The Messiah -- He's DOOM!

    by V. von Doom

    A halfway serious historical film about the 1st Century of the Common Era without the paranormal trappings, trying to explain the events around the origin of one of the most influential monotheistic religions? DOOM would be there. Bring on the Romans versus the local tribes versus the Jews versus the radical Jews (Jesus may have been a rabbi with ideas that didn't go down well with the local religious authorities). That would be greatly entertaining. However, there are *no* serious historical documents from this period upon which to base Verhoeven's thesis. There are very few documents from the period to begin with. It would be mere conjecture, hopefully entertaining conjecture and several steps up from THE DA VINCI CODE morass, but no more than that. Verhoeven may think he's found proof for his beliefs but no professional historian or theologian places any value on whatever he's quoting. Otherwise someone would have already written a doctoral thesis on it. Believe DOOM!

  • i agree totally with this...but why lie on a guys story i don't mind reinterpretation of things for the sake of art..im a artist myself and done it plenty of times(M.L.K. KLAN KILLER.will be out shortly..yeah right.i can do better than that)my main beef is when layse knuckle dragging hipster blowhards with no gift of intuition, try to tell me with all there so-called know how,that he couldn't have even possibly existed.when they have no proof of there own that confirms that he didnt. just parroting the foolish misgiving of others???as a means of voicing there disdain toward people who believe. cant we agree to disagree at least?!?.Hell Their not even smart enough to maturity deduce and understand how and why there very governments and institutions of organized religion and education ruthlessly deceive them on a daily basis all in all, cut the shit ...please.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:44 a.m. CST

    JESUS IS JUST ALRIGHT WITH ME!

    by DadeOrAlive

    Sounds like an interesting flick.... if it pisses no one off it will be worthless.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:48 a.m. CST

    because honestly...

    by damagedinc

    A movie about Jesus is not about entertaining in any traditional sense. Like the films about Gandhi or Malcolm X, they desire to communicate the person by compelling you through their life story. Scorcese's movie, Kazantsakis's book, is really more about the auteur than Jesus himself. Verhoeven's book is like that in a more subtle way. Albert Schweitzer had noted that there were as many Jesus's as there are scholars who study them. Objectivity among the Jesus Seminar folks is illusory as they share a set of biases that, while running counter to any confessional line that they mean to liberate themselves from, still skew them from the objectivity that far cooler minds in the field possess.

  • Peter: I had to kill Judas because he made a mistake. Jesus: I'm the foot fucking master. (washes feet) (saves mary magdalene from stoning) Mary: Oh god, thank you. Jesus: You have just suffered a traumatic experience. I will notify the nearest rape trauma center.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:52 a.m. CST

    How long does Avery get to milk...

    by Phloton

    ...his association with Pulp Fiction? He's a talentless hack.

  • So it's a movie about a magician without any magic tricks in it? Does he at least show off his carpentry skills?

  • You know you want it.

  • June 20, 2012, 10:03 a.m. CST

    LAST TEMPTATION did have a Christ who performed miracles

    by FlyingToupee

    C'mon, he heals the blind man, he raises Lazarus from the dead, cures the guy who got his ear cut off in Gethsemani, etc. It might have been an unconventional portrait because it was an interpretation of Kazantakis's tormented Jesus, but He was still supposed to be the Son of God.

  • June 20, 2012, 10:06 a.m. CST

    jeditemple - who said Christians were stupid?

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 20, 2012, 10:06 a.m. CST

    "You must be some kinda SMART Jesus"

    by torpedoboy

    Ahhh...I can hear it now.

  • June 20, 2012, 10:07 a.m. CST

    Robocop was a Jesus movie..

    by Axl Z

    Resurrection, Judas, Outcast.. It's all in there!

  • June 20, 2012, 10:18 a.m. CST

    I'd buy THAT for 2$!

    by ObiBen

  • June 20, 2012, 10:20 a.m. CST

    re: the awareness

    by Party_Animal_IV

    proof? you want proof? I have no proof that you are not Jesus typing on the AICN talkback. But I do have faith that you are not.

  • I believe in a higher order, and that higher order compelled/programmed genetically mankind to believe in fairy tale gods, so their true indentity would not even be pondered... I have faith in that... I have one wish before I disccorporate- that this higher order make itself known to us, before it is too late- even though it might already be...

  • June 20, 2012, 10:32 a.m. CST

    Re:mcgootoo. you hit the nail right on the head my friend..

    by TheAwareness

    i only hope there not all there is for us..because i think the hate out guts..or at the very least think were a tasty snack

  • consciousness

  • though I'd be impressed if Verhoeven can work space aliens into his Jesus movie. Or maybe he can bring Ridley Scott on board as coproducer and bill it as a prequel to Prometheus.

  • June 20, 2012, 10:38 a.m. CST

    So Very DARING!

    by SHADOWPRIME

    Wow -- I am always impressed when Hollywood takes a run at some aspect of Christianity. I mean, that takes enormous courage, because,as we know, you run all sorts of economic, political, and physical risks when you mock Christianity these days. Yessir, that is really speaking truth to power. It is breathtaking, really. Sooo impressive. Folks who think Christianity is a bunch of bunk sure invest a lot of time and energy railing against it - while largely ignoring certain other faiths. For some reason. Hmmm. BTW, if you really think all religions are hokum, at least have the courage to admit that Right and Wrong are then absolutely meaningless matters of opinion, of no more significance than your favorite color, and that we should all do whatever we please, so long as it maximizes our benefit/pleasure. At least THAT would show some backbone.

  • wanna try again, other than, you believe Jesus existed, which, of course he did? Try to at least gather your thoughts coherently, and try to spell check ast least, so we can understand what you want to say-. Just trying to help....

  • June 20, 2012, 10:45 a.m. CST

    shadowprime - all religions are bunk- feel better now?

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 20, 2012, 10:50 a.m. CST

    McGooToo - You Chickened Out Halfway

    by SHADOWPRIME

  • June 20, 2012, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Get Your Ass To Nazareth

    by Cassius_Crackhead

    Hey man..I got five disciples to feed!

  • June 20, 2012, 10:52 a.m. CST

    blackmantis

    by JAMF

    daaaammmnn negro! you just turned this into a prometheus thread! a non-religiously crazed jesus film is what we've needed badly since mel's passion.

  • June 20, 2012, 10:59 a.m. CST

    shadowprime - how so?

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 20, 2012, 11:01 a.m. CST

    As a Christ loving geek, I implore you all to love one another...

    by adeceasedfan

    Besides flickapoo has already won this tb, hands down. The rest is just noise and bickering.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:03 a.m. CST

    KATE UPTON as MARY MAGDALENE

    by NeonFrisbee

    Random so and so: "Are you a hooker?" Mary Magdalene: "I'M A DANCER!" then she beats the shit out of the random so and so driving her seven inch stilleto heels into the vicitms eye. She then breaks into an epic electro-metal version of "I Don't Know How To Love Him" and does a pole dance on the cross.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:05 a.m. CST

    ELIZABETH BERKELY as JESUS H. CHRIST

    by NeonFrisbee

    She kind of is the Christ figure of SHOWGIRLS. I mean, she's selfish and ambitious and filled with rage and, like, pretty much almost kills two people, so she's not like Jesus at all, but she's the GODDESS and BEWARE ANY WHO INVOKE HER RAGE!

  • This whole SHOWGIRLS + JESUS duology is really starting to shape up into something awesomer than I could have possibly imagined.

  • I can't wait!

  • June 20, 2012, 11:14 a.m. CST

    McGooToo - Read On

    by SHADOWPRIME

    No strawmen here. Just wish that those who think all religions are bunk would own up to the logical endpoint, for better or worse, or neither. In a universe with no God, or gods, or The Force, or whatever, in a wholly natural, scientific, physical universe, then Right and Wrong don't exist and shouldn't be brought up at all. You should do anything you want, any time you want, limited only by what you enjoy and what you can get away with or are willing to 'pay for' in practical consequences. I just encounter few atheists with the guts to embrace the consequences of their own viewpoint. No offense intended.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Just go watch 'The Life of Brian' again

    by ATARI

  • June 20, 2012, 11:33 a.m. CST

    Not all of us need a celestial parental figure...

    by lprothro

    to do right by others. Some of us realize that treating others well is a good way to preserve civillization and to make a meaningful fullfilling experience out of our limited time here on Earth. For those who are too base to comprehend this however, and who need the promise of "ice cream" or a "spanking" held over their heads to behave-- I am glad that religion exists.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:34 a.m. CST

    shadowprime

    by Party_Animal_IV

    You mean the only reason we aren't butchering randomly in the streets for thrills is due to some fear of punishment from a vengeful deity? Silly me, I apparently was deluded into thinking there might be other reasons for acting civil.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:35 a.m. CST

    Jesus = Space Jockey (Engineer)

    by MoPea

    But of course you knew that already.

  • If you can find honest discussion on Christ or whatever within the confines of this tb, that's great. However for me it is overwhelmingly dominated by the spinning of wheels or flat out hate speech. So I'll enjoy it for a few laughs and bounce. Peace.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Verhoeven is great

    by Suskis

    I have just seen Black Book and I liked it very much. He's one of my favorite directors.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:44 a.m. CST

    What bothers me most about this type of conjecture..

    by lprothro

    is that it fuels ignorance. Certainly film fiction should have no artistic boundaries, but Verhoeven's script-- (as well as the theories of Dan Brown and his ilk), are every bit as fictional as the gospels, or perhaps even more so. Historically, all we really know is that Jesus existed, thanks largely in part to Josephus and to Paul's letters which make clear reference to Jesus' brother James (Paul's writings are actually older than any of the gospels by a few decades, and he wrote to entire congregations who clearly new some of Jesus's family members). These peripheral theories about him being born of a Roman centurion, or having children with Mary Magdelene all emerged in the dark ages or later, and it annoys me to no end how armchair conspiracy theorists go around repeating this crap as if they have the "real story".

  • June 20, 2012, 11:48 a.m. CST

    Bet they won't make one with Mohammed being a homosexual will they.

    by ShakaLaka Lambo

    The violent religious extremists being referred to are not (usually) Christians. They're Muslims. Now that just facts. I say usually because there are nutjobs everywhere. But you can bet your bollocks to a barndance they won't make a movie about "the Prophet" being gay. Why? Because they know what would happen. But they have no problem offending millions of people around the world by making a movie where Mary is raped by a Roman Soldier and Jesus is Gay? Cmon this is just offensive for the sake of being offensive. I don't care if you believe in Christ or not, alot of people believe alot of things I don't for example " Obama is great, the Yankees are the best baseball team, the moon is made of cheese, the new spider-man movie will suck etc etc but I don't go around TRYING to offend them, I respect they're opinions and hope they will respect mine. This is nonsense, personally I know what I believe and I think it's a shame that Paul as this little respect for another person's belief. He could make this film without the Rape, Without the Homosexuality and still focus on Jesus being a radical threat to the Roman Empire. Why won't he is the question. Because if he offends people he thinks more plebes will pay to see this garbage. It's the same with "shock rock" like Marilyn Manson, slipknot, and countless other hacks that have no talent.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:54 a.m. CST

    neonfrisbee, get over yourself...

    by Blue_Demon

    There won't be any histrionics. A lot of my fellow Christians will just ignore the movie. Me? I'll see it because it sounds like Verhoeven is asking serious questions. Still...I wonder when Hollywood will grow the sack to ask questions about Mohammed. The Prophet was a VERY interesting man.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:55 a.m. CST

    One more thing, Paul needs better research.

    by ShakaLaka Lambo

    Jesus didn't RAIL against the Roman Empire, in fact when asked about paying taxes to the Roman Empire, Jesus replied "give to Caesar that which is Caesar's". He was much more threatening to the Jewish Religious establishment at the time. Like I said before..garbage.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:58 a.m. CST

    well said Shadowprime.

    by ShakaLaka Lambo

    Saying the Universe happened by accident is like finding a dictionary and assuming it was created by an explosion in a printing press.

  • June 20, 2012, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Party Animal

    by SHADOWPRIME

    Other reasons? Such as? I guarantee those reasons aren't grounded in science, thats for certain. You can refrain from whatever you choose , but you can't pretend to have any scientific, nonreligious basis for refraining. There aren't any. Just saying. And you sure can't criticize anyone else's choices in any meaningful way. Slaughter or don't slaughter, the scientific Universe is absolutely unaware and indifferent.

  • June 20, 2012, 12:09 p.m. CST

    robred1

    by lprothro

    Well said, sir. Buddhism predates--and is clearly a partial inspiration for, much of the New Testament's content. Attributing the introduction of things like the "Golden Rule" to christianity is a testament to the shameful ignorance most of us westerners have toward eastern philosopy. Confucious introduced this idea before the Hebrew bible was ever even written, let alone the new testament.

  • June 20, 2012, 12:11 p.m. CST

    party_animal_IV...

    by Blue_Demon

    It also applies to the internet. People would never behave with such rudeness to each other for fear of a beatdown. Seriously, do you remember movie conversations before the internet? People disagreed in a more civil manner. With the distance of the internet, our baser instincts let go and people suggest that somebody should "eat a shotgun" or "die in a fire." When the guy's at striking distance...we agree to disagree and leave it at that. I don't care what motivates a Christian to behave...as long as he behaves.

  • June 20, 2012, 12:11 p.m. CST

    AWESOME

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Fassbender as Jesus please.

  • June 20, 2012, 12:14 p.m. CST

    Hey...Fassbender as Jesus IS a good idea.

    by Blue_Demon

    I'll watch that guy in anything.

  • June 20, 2012, 12:18 p.m. CST

    To any Christian who starts getting angry about this movie...

    by Blue_Demon

    Relax. God can take a punch. It will take much more than a movie to shake faiths. Hell...sometimes real adversity strengthens it so ninety minutes in a theater won't do a thing. I don't believe Verhoeven is showing disrespect...and even if he was, so what?

  • June 20, 2012, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Are you f#$%ing serious?

    by Nicolas Reyes

    If you choose to be a retarded, closed minded child whose irrational fundamentalism and pathetic homophobia gets the best of him, please stay out of the forums. No one wants to listen to you cry out for supporters that share your clearly deluded world view. If you believe Jesus was Christ (or straight, for that matter), that's your prerogative, but do not think for one second that you hold the absolute truth...because you don't. Accept others in the same way we rational human beings tolerate you crazy people, even after murdering thousands of people in the name of Christ and getting children drunk with the blood of your "messiah". Peace out.

  • June 20, 2012, 12:36 p.m. CST

    test

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 20, 2012, 12:38 p.m. CST

    test

    by Michael Lunney

  • When it comes to predicting a country's crime rate, sociologists typically look at such factors as income inequality and GDP. But new research suggests that a better place to look might be inside the religious beliefs of the population — or more accurately, their belief in Hell and the prospect of eternal damnation. Religion is typically seen as a psychological defense against bad behavior, and even a form of social control. But as researchers from the University of Oregon recently learned, these beliefs can also translate to prosocial behaviors. It's often thought that "religious values" are what drives religious people to be good – but it turns out that it's the fear of punishment that's causing them to exhibit virtuous behavior. This conclusion, which was reached by Azim Shariff and Mijke Rhemtulla, was made after a thorough investigation involving over 25 years of data that consisted of 143,197 people in 67 countries. What they discovered was that significantly lower crime rates could be found in societies where many people believed in Hell compared to those where more people believed in Heaven. What they also discovered what that these effects still stood once they accounted for other factors like economic and social well-being. The Heaven/Hell dichotomy within societies proved to be a more accurate way of assessing a country's potential for crime than the usual suspects. And fascinatingly, the difference had to do with the very nature of God's personality. As an example, the researchers discovered that university students with stronger beliefs in God's punitive and angry nature tended to be the least likely to cheat on an academic task. But stronger belief in God's comforting and forgiving nature significantly predicted higher levels of cheating. In terms of explanation, the researchers theorized that it has to do with an individual's take on the supernatural. From the Shariff and Rhemtulla paper: This pattern of results is consistent with theories highlighting the effectiveness of supernatural punishment–specifically–at regulating moral behavior and, as a result, group cooperation. These theories argue that human punishment is a highly effective deterrent to anti-social behavior within groups, but one that faces inevitable limitations of scale. Human monitors cannot see all transgressions, human judgers cannot adjudicate with perfect precision, and human punishers are neither able to apprehend every transgressor, nor escape the potential dangers of retribution. Divine punishment, on the other hand, has emerged as a cultural tool to overcome a number of those limitations. Unlike humans, divine punishers can be omniscient, omnipotent, infallible, and untouchable-and therefore able to effectively deter transgressors who may for whatever reason be undeterred by earthly policing systems. In other words, belief in a forgiving and kind God is typically used by people as a loophole, or excuse for bad behaviors. Belief in an omniscient and angry God, on the other hand, doesn't allow for that.

  • I CAN'T WAIT for the nonstop entertainment. Btw, I think Jesus is way cool. Totally dig his message of peace, love, and understanding; his very pronounced activist / revolutionary / leftist political leanings. I don't blame him for the religion that was foisted upon him posthumously. I only blame the assholes who not only completely misunderstood the story, but use it to promote agendas diametrically opposed to the intended message.

  • shadowprime - I am an atheist and understand the difference between right and wrong- your logical argument is anything but....you seem desperate to fill some void, and if religion does that and makes you a better person, good BOTTOM LINE - RESPECT THE EARTH AND EVERYTHING ON IT and ignoring your strawman argument and silly conclusion as anything but a strawman argument shows us you do not think logically, but from a single viewpoint that you force, like a round peg into a square hole some people need religion- but I conjecture, that without it, man would find a better, more logical way to deal with the unpredictability of emotion over intellect that leads to man doing wrong upon their fellow man religion is for people who are filled with fear of the unknown and need a guideline for dealing with their negative traits without succumbing to them

  • June 20, 2012, 1:28 p.m. CST

    neon...

    by Blue_Demon

    My mistake, I thought you meant on a bigger scale...like in the media. No, you're right. In the talkbacks, it gets heated. My apologies.

  • unless of course, you do not believe there is life anywhere else in the universe I want to meet the god of the universe by the way- he would probably be a great conversationalist, but you could never win an argument with him!!!!!!

  • June 20, 2012, 2:03 p.m. CST

    "Saying the Universe happened by accident..."

    by Michael Tyree

    ...isn't any more proveable than saying God did it in Seven Days. Who the heck knows? I don't and neither do some scribes who wrote the Bible. I do know that the universe is, indeed, expanding and everything is moving away from the other at astounding speeds. That's proven science. Yes folks, the universe is a bubble and it's growing! Is that in the Bible? No, why would God want to burden his children with a freakin' tech manual? "Just say I did it in seven days and be done with it. They'll figure it out anyway...smart lil' monkey's that they are." No, I didn't actually hear God say that but it does sound like something he'd come up with, yes? Even though it sounds like PV's thesis is mildly interesting, I think I'll read the book first to see if his movie's worth watching or is just another shallow attempt at crapper bucket stirring.

  • 'nuff said.

  • June 20, 2012, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Jesus Christ!

    by Mrhazard

    Another Jesus movie?

  • this is for real- look it up

  • June 20, 2012, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Jesus was likely a real person

    by shane peterson

    but more like a rebellious shaman or mystic who challenged roman authority and the jewish religious establishment. But I see no actual evidence of his supernatural abilities whatsoever.

  • June 20, 2012, 2:44 p.m. CST

    religion is like yogurt...spoiled but still tasty

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 20, 2012, 2:45 p.m. CST

    mcgootoo the god of the universe, if there was one

    by shane peterson

    would likely be so all powerful and knowing that he would be almost indifferent to us. Like he would pay as much attention to us as we pay attention to a fruit fly....or less.

  • June 20, 2012, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Fox News is going to have a field day with this.

    by Yelsaeb

    That is all.

  • Oh yes, you can. Because it's fucking preposterous. I'm just going to have a hard time giving a serious, focused viewing to a movie from the director of Robocop and Starship Troopers, because the whole time I'll be waiting for Jesus to rip someone's arm off and beat them over the had to it whilst shouting, "Would You BUY THAT FOR A DOLLAR, eh Compadre?!" Oh and please just cast Casper Van Dien already as Big J. That would rule.

  • June 20, 2012, 3:01 p.m. CST

    always look on the bright side of life

    by rakesh patel

    I wonder what the remake of this will be like in 20 years time.

  • June 20, 2012, 3:12 p.m. CST

    I don't care what it's about. It's more Verhoeven!

    by Ozzel

    Having only become a fan of the man in the last decade, I've never had a chance to see any of his films on the big screen. Sure, another big sci-fi action flick would be preferable, but I'll gladly throw down some cash for anything he directs!

  • Play it completely straight.

  • June 20, 2012, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Another Reboot?

    by Lesbianna_Winterlude

  • June 20, 2012, 3:26 p.m. CST

    moistmuskycameltoe...

    by Blue_Demon

    Verhoeven is much more than the director of Robocop and Starship Troopers. He had quite a distinguished career in The Netherlands before coming to Hollywood. His film Turkish Delight was nominated for an Oscar for best foreign language film and Soldier of Orange won an award (Los Angeles Film Critics) for best foreign language film.

  • June 20, 2012, 3:33 p.m. CST

    I wish my life were as simple as lprothro's...

    by John Brown

    ...so I could totally reduce religion and faith to a need for "ice cream" or a "spanking." It would make things so much easier if that were all at stake here.

  • June 20, 2012, 3:50 p.m. CST

    "What ARE you?" "I'm Rome's Reckoning."

    by whatevillurks

  • June 20, 2012, 4:13 p.m. CST

    STEVEN SEAGAL AS JESUS

    by Mullah Omar

    Is that him hanging from the cross in the graphic?

  • June 20, 2012, 4:31 p.m. CST

    There is a need in modern times it seems

    by KinjoAlcoholicNinja

    To pin the death of Jesus on the Romans, when according to nearly every account of his death, including the gnostic gospels and other accounts that are generally considered to be heresy by mainstream Christians, Pontius Pilate had him executed because the Jewish leadership threatened to rebel against him and start a ton of shit if Pilate refused. I get that people are worried about firing up anti-Jewish sentiment, but it seems like a dishonest way to do it.

  • June 20, 2012, 4:44 p.m. CST

    borisdoris - Exactly WHAT HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS?

    by Raptor Jesus

    The Jesus Hero-God myth is a re-telling of the third century b.c. 'Mithras' myth from Persia. You know, born in a manger, son of a God, healed the sick, raised the dead, etc, etc, etc. And Mithris a re-telling of a fifth century Egyptian God-Hero Horus. Study your history, folks. It's all stories. It's no more literally true than the sun is Apollo flying his golden chariot across the sky. GOT IT?

  • June 20, 2012, 5:08 p.m. CST

    It is, as it was.

    by Geomancer21

  • June 20, 2012, 5:12 p.m. CST

    BITCHES LEAVE.

    by henrydalton

    Thankyou, Flickapoo.

  • June 20, 2012, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Jesus built my car

    by throatwarbler_mangrove

    It's a love affair Mainly jesus and my hot rod

  • June 20, 2012, 6:03 p.m. CST

    JESUS BUILT MY HOTROD!!!

    by NeonFrisbee

    LOUD ENOUGH TO KNOCK YOU DOWN!!! Burn out... LET'S HIT THE FUCKIN' ROAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • June 20, 2012, 6:19 p.m. CST

    I was raised Catholic so...

    by Matthew

    I usually only critique Christianity and Catholicism. I figure that is why Hollywood movies and Marilyn Manson do the same. I figure the Jews have had enough hardship already, and I'm not Muslim and knew very little about the religion before 9-11-2001. You talk about what you know. Fear of death would prevent me from bashing Islam but fear of death and torture is what made Christianity so popular, Crusades and the Inquisition anyone? Jesus did not invent the golden rule, and they wouldn't have mad it to Mount Sinai if they didn't already know that killing is wrong. Jesus healed a blind man so that he could see , why not then cure blindness as a whole? People are all mostly good already, so I would assume most Christians are good people. As for the movie it is impossible to make a historically accurate movie about someone who like 2k years ago so why bother pissing people off. I guess Mary was raped by God, or did he ask first? The Vagina is an exit only in too many old myths

  • June 20, 2012, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Jesus was killed by "the Jews"

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    the same way Abe Lincoln was killed by "the Americans" He was a Jewish guy going about his business in a Jewish community. The way it's presented so often is idiotic.

  • June 20, 2012, 6:57 p.m. CST

    ROBOJESUS

    by F-18

  • June 20, 2012, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Mr Spork- ROBOJESUS vs. THE MENTALIST

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 20, 2012, 7:25 p.m. CST

    Theres only one way Verhoeven could do this...

    by Kakii

    Jesus Christ Fuck Yeah!!! Fucks all the bitches with 3 titties, Jesus Christ Fuck Yeah!

  • June 20, 2012, 7:56 p.m. CST

    So is God a White Supremecist?

    by ganymede3010

    Judging by Hollywood yes! Jesus is white, Moses is White, John the Baptist, the disciples of Jesus etc. Apparently GOD only intrusts his message to be carried out by White men. That's why religon is fucking JOKE. I can't believe people actually believe in that fairy tale.

  • Hey, I agree that religion has proven to be a bad thing in many cases, which is one reason I'm not overtly religious myself. But at the same time it bothers me to see so many self-righteous, all-knowing asshole atheists or people of other faiths on here who try to group all religious people(especially Christians) together with the bad or extreme elements of their faith. It's not intellectually fair at all.

  • June 20, 2012, 8:02 p.m. CST

    RE: Jesus is the first zombie.

    by Felix

    False. Lazarus was the first zombie.

  • Damn, man, you and others of your ilk are the most close-minded people out there and you don't even know it. It also amazes me how you seem to "KNOW" so many things, like that Jesus didn't exist. I'm sure you were also there are the beginning of the universe, so you KNOW how it all happened.

  • You know Paul what would be really edgy artsy and brave? Doing a movie about Mohamed and Islam. That would be a bit more interesting. Give that a try Paul "Showgirls" Verhoeven. But then again he most likely saw what happened to the last Dutchman who was critical of Islam ...Theo van Gogh.

  • June 20, 2012, 8:10 p.m. CST

    "Give that a try Paul "Showgirls" Verhoeven. "

    by DoctorWho?

    LOL

  • June 20, 2012, 8:48 p.m. CST

    The book was actually very good/interesting...

    by Vrolokus

    ...and I've always wanted to see a movie that attempts to portray a historical (i.e. non-magical) Jesus. So I hope this actually happens and doesn't fall apart in the early stages.

  • There are very, very few credible historians who believe Jesus didn't exist at all. It's very safe to say there was a man who lived in that area around that time, who created a stir and was executed by the Romans - and that his teachings as written in the Bible are probably at least similar to whatever the historical man was teaching. To be so anti-religion that you'd argue not only that he wasn't divine (which I'd completely agree), but go a step farther and say he never existed at all is silly, and overreaching. You could level that "there's no 100% convincing historical evidence!" charge against all sorts of historical figures. Given Jesus' social status and the part of the world he lived in, the lack of piles of contemporary sources isn't surprising at all.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:06 p.m. CST

    I love Verhoeven defenders. He's so misunderstood.

    by kells

    I'd like to see Verhoeven and Uwe Boll beat the shit out of each other in a boxing ring though.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Can't the title be "The Hallow Man"?

    by kells

    Kevin Bacon can be Jesus, Elizabeth Shue can be Mary Magdalene, and Michael Ironside can be an ass-kicking Judas. Plus...titties.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:08 p.m. CST

    So fucking bored to death of Jesus

    by Autodidact

    Go fuck yourself in the ass, baby Jesus.

  • My mom and aunt suffer from this... all I care about is whether it's true or not... but they think that because churches do nice things sometimes (when they're not fucking young boys) that I should just go "believe" (even though they don't believe).

  • Where the fuck did god come from then you cunt-shits?

  • This species fucking sucks.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:16 p.m. CST

    If you're a devout christian you're insane

    by Autodidact

    This needs to be said more often.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:35 p.m. CST

    hey auto let me ask you something..

    by ShakaLaka Lambo

    where did God come from? oh touche' . your obviously much more intelligent than all of us "dumb" believers who are seeking to fill a void in our lives...i recommend you go to this address and watch this address.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgJmsK2s0uI watch this and then come argue. Bet you won't.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:35 p.m. CST

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgJmsK2s0uI

    by ShakaLaka Lambo

  • June 20, 2012, 10:03 p.m. CST

    ..proof that he didn't...

    by gotilk

    If you don't know what's wrong with that, right away, on the surface, then you have not matured enough to have a real conversation about faith. You don't prove that things are NOT. You prove things that ARE. It's very simple.

  • June 20, 2012, 10:08 p.m. CST

    Why make a movie about Jesus? Ask Mel Gibson

    by Mel_Gibsons_Nazi_Dad

    He'll give you $370 million reasons why.

  • Plus, how the fuck does Jesus get from LV-223 to Palestine, pull off the Virgin Birth, get his ass crucified, AND do so without provoking his Engineer Colleagues into dropping their Xenomorph younglings on the planet in revenge for His Death and Resurrection?

  • June 20, 2012, 10:19 p.m. CST

    Jebus Forgive me for adding to this talkback

    by Jeremy Jar Binks

    With more useless memetrash, but FYI: The "Jesus was a bastard son of a Roman soldier" idea is not original with Verhoeven. It dates back at least to the early centuries AD, same period that the actual New Testament was being written (and arranged into what we call the "New Testament", with plenty of stuff discarded for a Director's cut) Doesn't make it any more likely, but it's there. Part of the mythos and the canon, you might say. Not a Christian myself, but I do believe a human Jesus probably existed and was probably an interesting enough character. I look forward to any story that presents the old tale in a somewhat new light. But just remember, folks... the biblical Jesus, no less than Achilles, Thor (original AND Marvel) and Superman, was just another in the long line of fictional superheroes created by humans for their power-fantasy narratives. Nothing changes but the format.

  • June 20, 2012, 10:20 p.m. CST

    I hope he puts Jesus on an inverted cross.

    by uberfreak

  • June 20, 2012, 10:21 p.m. CST

    @stargrave

    by victor82

    Yah, Theo Van Gogh was murdered by Muslim assassins for making a film critical of Islam and supporting Ayan Hirsi Ali. Verhoeven is a pussy. He's doing the safe thing; going after Christ while his country is being overrrun by Islam.

  • Fuck Christianity and all those other stupid desert death cults. If we are ever going to destroy religion (and we will... you resurrection junkies are going to die out, thank gawd, hahaha!) we might as start by ridiculing the main religion in western countries. Once people accept these delusions for what they are then maybe some fucking progress can be made with this species.

  • June 20, 2012, 10:51 p.m. CST

    @thephantomcatlives

    by Jeremy Jar Binks

    Exactly. Lazarus was the first zombie, while Jesus was obviously an early vampire. Werewolves didn't exist in the Holy Land then (too hot and dry!)

  • June 20, 2012, 11:27 p.m. CST

    Why? There's no reason to make this. WHY?!

    by mattythelionheart

  • I guess he needs something to do, yeah?

  • June 21, 2012, 12:25 a.m. CST

    Yes this will go over well.

    by MCVamp

  • June 21, 2012, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Guaranteed, this film will flop.

    by SunTzu77

  • June 21, 2012, 12:30 a.m. CST

    @cotton_mcknight

    by SunTzu77

    There's no way in hell anyone in Hollywood would make a film about Muhammed. Could you imagine the outrage and death threats?

  • June 21, 2012, 1:57 a.m. CST

    I had to kill Jesus because he made a mistake

    by mojination

    Now it's time to erase that mistake.

  • June 21, 2012, 3:01 a.m. CST

    As an extremely strong christian

    by maikerukun

    I am curious to see his interpretations and belief. I dont' understand why people think christians are blind sheep...actually scratch that, I do understand why...the majority of the christians people see are idiots and assholes. The truth is for a real christian, the Bible says God only calls on us to do two things. Honor and glorify his name, and spread his word. All this judgemental bullshit and silly right winged nonsense that people pull about gays being evil etc.. is a bunch of bs. Not all christians are like that so don't believe the idiotic hype...and honestly, there is a slight irony in the wise asses whom talk shit about supposed christian sheep, but then sheepishly presume we are all the same :)

  • June 21, 2012, 3:21 a.m. CST

    Hey, uberfreak

    by hulkiest

    You know who's dying out? White Europeans. Yes, Christianity is dying with them in many parts of the continent, but the bi-product of that harsh truth is the first to go in the rest of the world will be childless atheists. If Christians die out or are forced into the catacombs once again, 'free-thinkers' like you got no one to help you hide from the onslaught of the soon to be dominant religion with its army of 2.5 billion (and growing) Though I'm pretty certain you and your ilk would convert in a heartbeat. Hey, smart guy, Ever been to a Muslim Country? Where they freak out because you held your wife's hand in public? Worst of all, and this is to all you Christian hating know-nothings: If that ham-fisted Verhoven was doing an offensive film questioning say Hindu beliefs, and the film was about Ram raping Sita would you start laughing and say, "F--- Hindus! I can't wait for them to all die out!" Stick with ranting about Star Trek and Spiderman. As contributors to a discussion about about a religious themed movie, you're obnoxious monkey boys and I can only deduce that as members of a breathing, thinking human society you don't even rate that.

  • June 21, 2012, 4:59 a.m. CST

    On the one hand, they won't make a movie to offend the muslims.

    by David Cloverfield

    On the other hand, you guys are building flying death robots to murder them by the dozens. So I think you should be happy, that fate dealt you a hand with a movie that offends your religion and not the Hunter-killer drones from the Terminator. I swear, some people would whine and feel like the victims, even if they wore imperial cloaks, blasting away planets on the Death Star.

  • If I am offended at the idea that Mary was raped by a roman soldier am I someone who is easily offended?

  • So please, spare me the 'You won't insult Islam in your movies!' nonsense. Your claim is that this movie insults Christianity because...it asserts that Jesus wasn't divine, and Christianity is therefore false. But every movie that portrays Jesus as divine is asserting that Islam is false. Because Islam doesn't regard Jesus as divine, but only as an inspired prophet. So every last film, from QUO VADIS to the Kirk Cameron DTV garbage out there, that asserts that Christianity is true insults all other religions every bit as much as this movie insults Christianity.

  • June 21, 2012, 6 a.m. CST

    Actually the claim that Jesus' real father was a Roman centurion...

    by FluffyUnbound

    ...was already around in the 2nd century. Verhoeven didn't pull it out of his ass. It was a pretty standard thing for pagan critics of Christianity to say, during the church's early rise. Pagans rolled their eyes and said, 'Son of a god, huh? That's what I'd say, too, if I had his father,' the same way we roll our eyes at Scientology.

  • By not being a Muslim, you are stating (implicitly, but absolutely inescapably and necessarily) that Islam is false. If you thought Islam was true, you'd convert. Since you haven't, you think it's false. QED. If you're determined to be upset because someone is saying out loud 'Jesus was not a god' why aren't you pissed off at, say, the existence of Jews? They're saying Jesus was not a god just by walking around and being Jews. You're surrounded by pervasive continual denials that your religion is true, and you aren't offended by any of them. How does it somehow become really upsetting when it's in a movie?

  • Are they infidels before they've had a chance to examine religion for themselves or are they just born infidels?

  • June 21, 2012, 6:40 a.m. CST

    "watch this and then come argue. Bet you won't."

    by buggerbugger

    What's there to argue, exactly? That Ravi guy posits that universal matter can't come from nowhere, it has to have been created in some way, then goes on to say that the only explanation is that a non-corporeal "something" (aka God) created matter out of nothing and filled the "nothing" with "everything". God can create matter out of nothing? I thought one of the reasons why religious people didn't believe in variants of the Big Bang theory (damn your precious science!) was that matter can't come from nothing. And yet God can do it and that's why they believe in his existence? Well, that answers that question to everyone's satisfaction... I guess: Matter can't come from no-matter, except when God makes it so. To reiterate: A mysterious, possibly-purposeless "Big Bang" explosion can't create matter from no-matter (because that'd be stupid, it makes no sense), but a mysterious, non-corporeal sentience can deliberately summon matter into existence from nowhere (because that just makes sense. So much sense, in fact, that it would be wise of me to base my entire life around this completely infallible and logical supposition, because I'll be eternally punished by this non-corporeal "something" if I don't). Utter. Fucking. Nonsense. Scientists may not hold all the answers, but at least they're asking the questions. You, on the other hand, appear to be content with an "answer" that (a) answers nothing and (b) wouldn't fool a child; an "answer" arrived at 2000 years before you were even born! You're not half the Christian that the Christians of 1000AD were, but probably twice the Christian that the Christians of 3000AD will be. Your God of the Gaps holds dominion over smaller and fewer gaps with the passage of time. Hopefully, one day, he will hold sway over none and Mankind can get on with something a bit more fucking sensible - and a hell of a lot more altruistic - than killing itself over myths, legends and fairy tales.

  • "...or are they just born infidels?" They have 20 seconds to comply.

  • ALL religious people are nuts, but extremist muslims top the list on the nut scale. As of yet, extremist christians seem content with the usual -- homophobia, racism, facilitating and subsequently covering up child rape, et al -- they haven't graduated to terrorist attacks... Yet.

  • June 21, 2012, 6:57 a.m. CST

    Great post, scratchmonkey!

    by NeonFrisbee

    The "god in the gaps," indeed! Didja ever read "The God Delusion" by Dawkins (I'm assuming so)? It's really great.

  • June 21, 2012, 6:59 a.m. CST

    scratchmonkey - you have 20 seconds to make a point

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 21, 2012, 7:03 a.m. CST

    Can god make a mistake?

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 21, 2012, 7:05 a.m. CST

    Why does Hollywood go out of its way to offend Christians anyway?

    by BoyNamedSue

    After reading some of the vile posts on here directed at Christians, I know I won't change anybodys minds......but Christians have money (and influence) and this movie will not make a profit, so why make it other than to offend a religion you happen to dislike?

  • June 21, 2012, 7:27 a.m. CST

    I'm a Christian and a Physicist

    by BradleyPitt

    And the way I see it God didn't necessarily directly cause the big bang. All that was needed to create this universe was the rule of gravity, Strong force, Weak force, Electro-magnetism and a shitload of energy. I would guess (although no scientist can say for sure...yet) that the energy came from elswhere (another dimension or place within the universe) but the question is when/where/how did the rules get put in place. I would guess that, even if we traveled to other dimensions, it is a question that humankind will never have an answer for...not while we're alive anyway. P.S. Einstein believed in God.

  • June 21, 2012, 7:39 a.m. CST

    @scratchmonkey that last post was for you

    by BradleyPitt

    by the way

  • June 21, 2012, 7:41 a.m. CST

    Actually the first "zombie" of biblical canon..

    by lprothro

    was a widow's son resurected by Elijah in first kings....look it up!

  • And Jesus seems like a hep cat. Lots of my friends are believers. Most of them are very intelligent. I rant against religion as a mental block, but if it gives you comfort or context to be a better person, or connects you with some idea of a benevolent unknowable infinite, that's cool. Either way, getting angry about stuff like this is stupid. People's anger reveals how little they understand, how little they're willing to. I joke about it being like SHOWGIRLS, but I bet it will be intelligent and thought provoking. Offensive only if you're a cultist.

  • boynamedsue why do you go out of your way to play the martyr? why do you assume a movie that hasn't even been made will be offensive? If man was created in god's image, is god so easity offended by movies he hasn't seen also? Do you think GOD IS A GEEK, and likes genre films?? I do...

  • June 21, 2012, 7:49 a.m. CST

    Perhaps not babies, because they don't have agency or intent yet.

    by FluffyUnbound

    But anyone with the agency to choose among many faiths (or to choose no faith) by necessity insults the other faiths, and their practitioners, as soon as they choose one to the exclusion of the others. Or, rather, they insult those other faiths to the same extent this film insults Christianity. Because saying, 'I am angry someone is making this film!' is the same as saying, 'I am angry that someone does not believe Christ was divine!' And everyone who is not a Christian says that with every moment of their existence, by dint of not choosing to be a Christian. The only difference that anyone could point to would be to say, 'Yeah, but these guys are loudly proclaming that they don't think Christ was divine, whereas those other people are just doing their own thing and only implicitly stating that Christ was not divine by their actions,' and that's a really irrational and stupid distinction to worry about.

  • when the concept of our present day religious gods (all of the different types) goes the way of the acient Greek and Roman gods- it would be a sign that mankind might actually start to get it's shit together- but it would make a pretty damn big accident at that intersection befrore the stop (god) sign goes up

  • June 21, 2012, 7:53 a.m. CST

    ^^^^but it would take^^^^

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 21, 2012, 7:55 a.m. CST

    this talkback proves that god does not exist

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 21, 2012, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Einstein didn't believe in god

    by Autodidact

  • June 21, 2012, 8:17 a.m. CST

    @autodidact-yes he did

    by BradleyPitt

  • June 21, 2012, 8:23 a.m. CST

    @bradleypitt nuh-unnh

    by Autodidact

    He didn't believe in god. He talked about god not playing dice with the universe... but that was just a way to say that the big bang is not an "accident" in the way the pseudoscientific thinkers like to portray it.

  • June 21, 2012, 8:27 a.m. CST

    @autodidact you gonna bother to look it up?

    by BradleyPitt

  • Why you gotta obfuscate?

  • June 21, 2012, 8:42 a.m. CST

    @bradleypitt Haha, aha! but he did believe in some form of God?

    by BradleyPitt

  • June 21, 2012, 8:58 a.m. CST

    fluffyunbound...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I generally agree with you but I have to disagree a bit in this case. It's the tolerance line, really. If someone, for one example, hates homosexuals (or fill in the blank) but does not trumpet their hate, does not attempt to convince others that as a society we should hate them, does not produce and distribute hate-filled fliers, books, videos or other material, it is both practically less harmful and psychologically less distressing to the objects of that person's hate. The same is true here. There is a difference between rejecting a particular religion and proselytizing against it by making a film that contradicts some of its most precious tenets. Now we live in a society that has long held as one of its ideals the ability of all to express themselves freely. We've done a fairly spotty job of living up to those ideals, but probably about as well as could be expected. That means that although a movie such as this is offensive to those folks they must accept it, though they are certainly free to lobby theaters not to show it, protest its exhibition, fund documentaries showing that Verhoeven only made Showgirls so he could sleep with Gina Gershon and all that their expressions of free speech allow. But that doesn't change the fact that there is a qualitative difference between me rejecting the teachings of the being you believe to be your divine savior and me making a movie that portrays him as the son of a thousand Roman Maniacs. For instance, if you think I'm a bastard for disagreeing with you it wouldn't bother me too much. But if you created a web-site calling me a bastard, papered my nieghborhood with signs explaining that I'm a bastard, called everyone in my city telling them I was a bastard... ...okay, that would rock and it would probably make me pretty happy... ...but you get my point.

  • He felt a "sense of religious wonder" when his mind boggled at the universe, and in that sense felt he understood how people feel about god.

  • Why would I be? Jesus Christ, people, it's only a movie!

  • I don't want to make this a big thing Because there have been books arguing one way or the other. But the commonly held perception is that Einstein was certainly not an atheist-a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. And so that leaves only one other option-theist-a person who believes in a supreme being or beings.

  • June 21, 2012, 9:38 a.m. CST

    Sure bradley whatever makes you feel better

    by Autodidact

    I personally put my faith in Santa.

  • June 21, 2012, 9:51 a.m. CST

    An honest discourse...

    by SunTzu77

    Theism is always a hot topic. I'm all for open discourse. Probably, the most civil exchange that I've read is below... it's a long thought provoking exchange between a Christian (Catholic) and an Atheist... so if you have ADHD... it may require multiple sittings. Dave Armstrong is quite articulate. http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2009/09/dialogue-with-atheist-on-problem-of.html http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/12/atheists-boundless-faith-in-deo.html http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/12/on-whether-atheism-is-inherently-more.html http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/03/dialogue-with-atheists-on-evolution-of.html

  • He saw evidence for it and he was smart enough to know that he certainly couldn't rule it out.

  • June 21, 2012, 10:02 a.m. CST

    Ugh to the Einstein point above

    by Bass Ackwards

    We can't say for sure he was an atheist, so therefor he must be a theist. Chalk up one more for the Christians! The most you can say is he didn't rule it out, but that's not saying anything at all. But he didn't put his "faith" in a greater being or share a belief in anything like a god or a higher power. He described himself as an agnostic, and stayed away from the term atheist only out of humility and a sense that he had that atheism was not only a lack of belief in god but zealously anti-religion, a political stance which he didn't care much about.

  • June 21, 2012, 10:04 a.m. CST

    bradley shut the fuck up you disingenuous cunt

    by Autodidact

    I tried to be nice.

  • Not all of them of course, but all with religion, the most vocal tend to be the most grating.

  • shall we break out the einstein quotes?

  • June 21, 2012, 10:40 a.m. CST

    bradleypitt, you speak truth

    by kidicarus

  • Yates did say he wanted to do a Doctor Who movie, we just didn't know at the time that Jesus was a Time Lord.

  • June 21, 2012, 10:46 a.m. CST

    BradleyPitt, unless you're some kind of fusionist like a Unitarian...

    by FluffyUnbound

    ...choosing one option means rejecting the others. Sorry. They are mutually exclusive. Red Ned - what I'm saying is that's not rational. It's a real primate brain kind of thing. If you are OK with people disagreeing with you as long as they don't SAY it, the real reason you're offended is because someone has dared to offer you a primate dominance challenge by openly talking about their disagreement. 'If you think I'm a dick that's cool, but if you SAY I'm a dick that's dissing me in front of my bitches so I gots to cut you.'

  • Churches help the needy- that is a great thing!

  • June 21, 2012, 10:56 a.m. CST

    geez, this talkback has degenerated into Einstein's beliefs

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 21, 2012, 11:09 a.m. CST

    WAAAAA! WHY DON'T THEY MAKE FUN OF ISLAM!!

    by yomomma

    God, I'm so sick of Christians whining about how terrible they get treated by hollywood. In 100+ years of film making, how many truly sacrilegious films can you name? There's at least 10 times that many that try, not very subtly, to cram the Jesus down all of our throats. There's a whole industry cranking out crappy "Left Behind", Veggie-Tales and other Jesusy flicks for true believers. And hollywood doesn't make movies about Islam because NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT MOHAMMED AND NOBODY CARES. Sorry if that pisses off the 2% of Americans who are Muslim. People make controversial movies to make a statement, and because they sell tickets, and you just wouldn't be able to drum up enough controversy to make it worthwhile with something that offends 2% of Americans. And how does Hollywood not attack Islam enough anyway? They may not be making movies specifically about Mohammed, but Muslims are the villains in 75% of action films- at least you whiny Christians don't have to put up with EVIL Christian zealots blowing up busses in 3/4 of all big-budget action movies. Sorry to burst your eternal-victim bubbles, bible-beaters. It's still a mostly-free country, and Hollywood has a lot of people in it that have been treated like shit by bible-thumping assholes.

  • In other words, don't make yourselfs vocal target, and you won't be one.

  • emotions get in the way- that is the human wild card- otherwise we could all just practice the golden rule without hesitation-- all the time---- GOD help us all, if you are really there- if not- oh well the cockroaches will take over anyway

  • June 21, 2012, 12:53 p.m. CST

    yeah! lets change jesus into what we want him to be!

    by Kal-EL84

    Pathetic!!! You cant change the gospels!. But obviously the world we live in today can! This is a sign of how corrupt this world is and how nothing stays sacrid. Next they are going to make a movie about how peter and judas were gay and planned to betray jesus together!. Think ill pass.

  • June 21, 2012, 2:36 p.m. CST

    God is not religious

    by Michael Lunney

  • Free speech for me but not for thee, I guess. Unbeliever here, cause I guess we got to drop our credentials. But anyway... Jesus the product of rape? Ugh. Yeah, Verhoeven really "researched" that. Means he read one or two crank conspiracy books, got fucked up on goofballs and thought, "Hey, this would make a great movie!" Hey, go for it, but don't pretend that this is any way a serious intellectual film. That sounds like it's pure shock value. Gotta get the plebes riled up somehow! I'm all down with an exploration of Jesus' political impact during his life but I'm of the understanding that it was tiny. Jesus wasn't the first Jewish messiah and wasn't the last either. Lots of fellows came and went all claiming to be King of the Jews and they all got butchered by the Romans. One asshole was very nearly successful in throwing them out but then they came back, murdered the shit out of him and burned the Temple. The J-Man had some loyal followers who could spread his...excuse me, HIS...beliefs effectively and far and wide. But that took a long long looooong time to do. Jesus, when he was alive, was barely a blip on anyone's radar. But, whatever.

  • June 21, 2012, 2:56 p.m. CST

    bradleypitt

    by Bass Ackwards

    Simply read my post, I already made my point, if you want to argue that he is not an atheist, go right ahead, it does nothing to detract from what I said above.

  • June 21, 2012, 2:59 p.m. CST

    And for the capital A Atheists

    by eveelcapitalist

    You know, the fucktards who turn simple nonbelief into a fucking dogmatic system with its own bullshit rules (what kind of fucking world do we live in where the most holier-than-thou people are the ones who profess no faith?).* A lot of you assholes are prone to arguing that Jesus didn't exist. You just flat out say Jesus didn't exist. Evidence to the contrary, this is an article of faith among so many of you. So tell me, since Jesus didn't exist, who made him up? This should be easy, who made him up? And I don't want some broad answer like "the Greeks". Name some fucking names. It's fucking mind blowing that so many of you will blindly assert one thing while asking people to believe, with absolutely no evidence whatsoever, that Jesus is the creation of some faceless conspiracy whose sole intent was some kind of mind control (for fun and profit, I guess). And then you call yourselves "rationalists". Bunch of fucking retards is more like it. *If I wanted dogma I'd join a religion. Since I don't wish to be lumped in with these idjits I just call myself a nonbeliever.

  • June 21, 2012, 3:22 p.m. CST

    Lord, Liar, or Lunatic

    by Joeboyd

    Great example of an argument that Christians think is so brilliant but that is pointless to everyone else. It only makes sense if you agree that the Bible was handwritten by God or is at least flawlessly accurate in all its statements. Of course we are free to believe that Jesus was a great moral teacher but not that he was God incarnate...of course we can find value in many of his teachings but ignore some of the stuff invented later by his followers. Jesus never said anything like "I am God!" or "I am the second person of The Trinity and that ghost over there is the third and my invisible father is the first". Concepts like the Trinity were invented much later. He made some ambiguous statements like "I and my father are one", and "You see me you see the Father" but that is afar cry from what modern Christians attribute to him, and no one knows if any of those statements are authentic to begin with.

  • June 21, 2012, 3:34 p.m. CST

    joeboyd- blessed are the cheesemakers

    by Michael Lunney

  • June 21, 2012, 3:35 p.m. CST

    This movie is being made for SHOCK VALUE only

    by BoyNamedSue

    There are people out there who say the Holocaust couldn't have happened because the math doesn't add up over the time the Jews were being rounded up and the number of Jews killed per day......are we going to get a movie about that? No, because the subject matter is too inflammatory, as is the subject for this film. I respect this guy's right to make this film, but I doubt the audience exists for it. It seems Hollywood bends over backwards to display certain sensitivities to all kinds of various groups, but they are less likely to display these courtesies toward evangelical Christians. I guess it's because we don't approve of the gay lifestyle....well....neither do certain other religions.

  • ...over scripture they both mistakenly interpret. So much of it is allegory... symbolic of higher truths. Millions of people mistakenly take it literally... as historical fact. There's way more depth to it than that. <p> The condescension of atheists is particularly amusing. All they are really doing is shooting fish in a barrel. How smart they must feel for proudly pointing out scientific inaccuracies of the Bible. *yawn* Truth is, they're both arguing over mistaken interpretations from the word go.<p> And really... even if you dismiss ALL religious scripture as simply a collection of myth, fables etc...it doesn't mean they are devoid of real wisdom or usefulness in ones life.<p> Having said all of that, I really have no interest in this movie. The hoopla surrounding it will be far more interesting. And disheartening.

  • too bad that wisdom is used to close so many minds to be judgmental, and not teachers... oh well humans and their emotions.. what can you say? Life is too short for so much conflict, internal and external

  • As if people with religious beliefs are the only ones with dogma. The only ones creating conflict.

  • June 21, 2012, 5:36 p.m. CST

    There was already a movie made about Mohammed you dumb fucks!!

    by ganymede3010

    Granted, the movie never actually shows him but the film takes places from his first person perspective. This was made in the 80's and it's pretty popular in the muslim comminity. The movie is called the Message. So please cease with your the "Muslim" world go apeshit if a movie is made about their fictional diety "Mohammed".

  • June 21, 2012, 5:42 p.m. CST

    ganymede3010

    by DoctorWho?

    You're right. The Muslim world didn't go apeshit over a movie about Mohammed (which I'm sure was a reverential depiction).<p> However, drawing Mohammed as a cartoon in the funny papers? Different story.

  • June 21, 2012, 7:18 p.m. CST

    mcgootoo you just proved my point for me!

    by Kal-EL84

    There is always an excuse! he said she said mumbo!!!!! JUMBO!!!!!!!!

  • June 21, 2012, 9:29 p.m. CST

    You cant change the gospels, but every church ever can!

    by Emerald Snoggingbottom

  • June 21, 2012, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Veroeven hasn't made a good film since,fuck, maybe Robocop?

    by Emerald Snoggingbottom

  • June 21, 2012, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Hey, millions of Catholics take Jesus into their mouths once a week

    by Queefer Sutherland

    Because the disciples did the same, except, of course, it was Christ's dick.

  • June 22, 2012, 4:37 a.m. CST

    I'd buy that for a dollar!

    by CrushKillDestroy

  • June 22, 2012, 8:13 a.m. CST

    Gideon: "Honestly, let's see them try this with Islam."

    by kevinwillis.net

    And that's all that needs to be said about "edgy" and "boundary pushing" Hollywood. Movies that treat the Bible like toilet paper are easy and conventional in 2012. Let's see them try it with Islam and the Prophet Mohammed . . . you know, in some context where there is an actual "edge" or some actual risk involved. Where a real boundary is actually pushed. What? No? How surprising.

  • June 22, 2012, 8:15 a.m. CST

    A Holocaust Denial Movie . . .

    by kevinwillis.net

    Where the twist was Nazis were actually rounding up zombies or vampires and putting them in camps could be really cool. But, again, "edgy" and "convention challenging" Hollywood would never do it.

  • June 22, 2012, 8:39 a.m. CST

    Mohhamad movies

    by m2298

    When THE MESSAGE (aka MOHHAMAD MESSENGER OF GOD) was relaese in the US in 1977, a fringe Muslim sect lay siege to several Washington DC buildings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Hanafi_Siege There was also 2004's MOHAMMAD: THE LAST PROPHET an animated film from Richard Rich, which like the other film doesn't depict the Prophet himself. No one seems to have taken offense with it.

  • June 22, 2012, 9:42 a.m. CST

    I saw this porn once where Jesus was fucking Mary.

    by Pat

    Not Mary Magdalene, but his Mother Mary. Mary M was watching and masturbating with a huge black dildo and he was wearing a crown of thorns and everything. To ramp things up even more they even had that shot they do in those fake virgin deflowering videos of the red food colorinig dripping down her butt cheeks since you know, Mary was a virgin and all. Then I started to think, if Jesus was born of her womb, wouldn't he have broken the hymen on the way out? Anyway, my point is this Verhoven movie sounds kind of like that, retarded for retarded sake. The only difference is I doubt there will be anything to jerk off to. However I did jerk it to the rape scene in The Accused so perhaps there's hope.

  • June 22, 2012, 10:22 a.m. CST

    he doesn't get it

    by taff

    From your brief description it sounds like he doesn't understand either Jesus nor the Roman Empire. Jesus specifically did not want to be a political leader, evidenced by his unwillingness to allow crowds to pressure him to become King. I predict a bad movie on it's way... Wonder of it will be as boring as The Last Temptation of Christ or overthetop violent like The Passion of the Christ or will it feature claymation like The Miracle Worker or will Jesus have blue eyes like in King of Kings or... Someday, someone will create a perfect movie about Jesus, but won't be this one!