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PERFECT ORGANISM: Nordling Goes To War With ALIENS!

 

Nordling here.

If you thought that my defense of ALIEN3 in the last column of PERFECT ORGANISM meant that I preferred that movie over its predecessor ALIENS, you probably shouldn’t be reading this.  I defended ALIEN3 because I genuinely think it’s a good movie, and served as a launching pad for one of the strongest visual filmmakers today, David Fincher. But ALIENS is in another league; without a doubt one of the greatest sequels of all time.  There will always be a debate about which movie is better, ALIEN or ALIENS. While I’m firmly in the ALIEN camp, that doesn’t mean I have to love ALIENS any less.  It just means ALIEN is that good.  But its sequel, with one of the most simplistic yet on-point titles ever, joins that rare group of sequels that expands on the original in a way that opens up that whole filmic universe.

As ALIEN is a horror movie, ALIENS makes no attempts, aside from some frightening moments, to repeat the formula. This is an action-adventure movie. And we should be thankful for that.  Instead of repeating story beats, ALIENS is genuinely different from Ridley Scott’s film. Quality-wise ALIEN, at least for me, outweighs ALIENS, though the sequel is still one of the most on-target movies ever made.  Its hit-to-miss ratio is up around 90%, an average that puts ALIENS in very small company.  I can’t claim it’s a better film than ALIEN simply because while the universe is the same, the styles are vastly different.

ALIENS is intense, emotional, and ultimately rewarding; ALIEN is mythic, dealing with a vast universe that isn’t necessarily hostile to humanity as it is indifferent.  ALIEN is cold, clinical, and Kubrickian (with a dash of Robert Altman’s dialogue); ALIENS is more along the lines of John Ford or Howard Hawks.  The characters in the original are more relatable - just blue-collar working stiffs in space as opposed to warriors and corporate suits. But ALIENS is more inviting, in a strange way.  These are familiar action movie tropes we’re dealing with – a vastly outnumbered, expendable force dealing with hostiles everywhere, a woman who emotionally latches on a helpless orphan – and so ALIENS is a better fit for a lot of audiences than ALIEN.

As world-building goes, Ridley Scott set the framework with ALIEN but it could be said that James Cameron adds the meat to the bones of the ALIEN Universe.  ALIENS feels even more lived-in than ALIEN if that’s possible.  A greater intimacy is felt in the original ALIEN because the cast - seven crewmembers on the Nostromo space vessel - is so small, as opposed to a sequel full of space-age jarheads. With a larger cast of characters ALIENS loses some characterization, which is to be expected. James Cameron may paint some of the characters with broad strokes, but that’s not to say they aren’t memorable.

Take Michael Biehn’s Hicks, for example.  When the movie starts we know very little about him – he’s just a grunt, to quote Paul Reiser’s Burke.  We know that he’s been in many combat drops – enough that when the dropship goes down to LV-426 it knocks him right out like a lullaby – and that he seems to have a stabilizing effect on the rest of the Colonial Marines.  He gets along with everyone and is well-liked. Biehn puts enough empathy and restraint in his performance that Hicks, when not blowing away aliens, might seem to be an all right guy to have a beer with.  Fans were outraged when David Fincher ruthlessly killed him off in ALIEN3, and while I still think it was necessary to tell that movie’s story, Hicks made enough fan impact that I would have liked to have seen more adventures with that character as well.  There’s a nice moment in the Director’s Cut when Ripley is on her way out to rescue Newt when they reveal to each other their first names.  Even while we don’t know much about Hicks, Cameron’s writing and Biehn’s work make him feel fully realized and Hicks is a worthy addition to the ALIEN universe.

I love how Bishop (Lance Henriksen) is ambiguous to the audience at first.  ALIENS counts on the audience having seen ALIEN for many of the story beats to work, and after the villainous Ash obviously Bishop isn’t fully trustworthy.  We see him admiring the facehugger, calling it “magnificent,” but unlike Ash, his fascination is purely academic; he would never let anything hurt the crew if he could help it.  Bishop is the quiet hero of ALIENS, and when Ripley accepts him it’s a vindication.

No, the real villain is Burke (Paul Reiser), a Company man through and through looking for exclusive rights to the aliens, and thinking nothing of killing his crewmates if it means he can collect.  There are probably entire dissertations out there on the portrayal of corporations in the ALIEN Universe – from the inquest and through Burke’s actions it’s obvious that Weyland-Yutani wants nothing more than to sweep the whole thing under a rug.  It’s all dirty laundry – the Nostromo, Ripley, Ash, all of it.  I’d always imagined Ridley Scott or someone making a movie about corporate greed and the rise of Weyland-Yutani – it wouldn’t even have to be science fiction.  In PROMETHEUS we have Weyland Industries, and I imagine the financial fiasco that ensues from the events in that film will probably force Weyland Industries to merge with Yutani at some point.  The idea of corporate malfeasance extending to the point of murder may have seemed a little ridiculous in 1986, but now, it’s completely plausible.

The other characters – Hudson (Bill Paxton), Vasquez (Jenette Goldstein), and Gorman (William Hope) may seem like stock characters in a movie like this, but Cameron and the actors make them breathe.  There’s a line that Vasquez says to Gorman – “You always were an asshole, Gorman.” – that paints a picture in my fan-fictiony mind.  From that line alone I’ve concocted a backstory between the two, about how they knew each other during training, but Gorman passed her up somehow, either because he was a man or that he was on the fast track to becoming an officer, and it was just coincidence that they wound up on this mission together.  As I said, very fan-fictiony but that’s to Cameron’s credit that he wrote these characters to have a life outside of the movie.  They aren’t as nuanced or as detailed as the characters in Ridley Scott’s film, but in ALIEN the actors had little choice but to build on what they were given. Even characters like Drake (Mark Rolston), Apone (Al Matthews), Spunkmeyer (Daniel Kash), or Frost (Ricco Ross) make an impression, and they aren't just fodder.  I would never claim that ALIENS has better characterizations than ALIEN but I do think that Cameron thought about these people quite a bit, possibly even more than Scott thought about his characters in ALIEN.

  

As far as Sigourney Weaver’s work in ALIENS, it’s a stellar performance - one of the greatest, man or woman, in the science fiction genre.  Weaver was nominated for an Oscar for Best Actress (and lost to Marlee Matlin from CHILDREN OF A LESSER GOD) and much deservedly so.  How many young women actresses were inspired by Weaver’s work here?  I’d imagine an awful lot.  To steal a Cameron phrase, Ripley’s characterization was in a way a “game-changing” moment in how females were portrayed in action-oriented roles. It also served as a metaphor for the female empowerment movement of the ‘80s. Think of the strong female characters that came along after Ripley. Joss Whedon’s Buffy Summers, Katniss Everdeen in THE HUNGER GAMES, even James Cameron’s Sarah Connor saw a complete metamorphosis in between THE TERMINATOR and JUDGMENT DAY.

I think my favorite acting moment in the entire series is Ripley armoring herself up in the elevator, silently, on her way down to Sub Level 3 to save Newt (Carrie Henn) from the aliens.   She faces her fears, fears that have been driving her throughout the movie, becoming something she’s never been before, and when those doors open she is ready for everything.  You have to remember that at the time of ALIENS’ release, action movies were full of heroes armed to the teeth, a Stallone or a Schwarzenegger shooting everything that moved with little emotion and remorse.  Ripley isn’t “Rambolina” like many reviewers at the time had claimed.  Her actions mattered, and Weaver makes the impending violence count.  Ripley is fighting for what she has lost, her life, and the life of Newt, and it is far from meaningless.

Stan Winston’s work on ALIENS is revelatory.  Although I prefer the elegant design of the original alien in the first film, the fact that Winston and his team created these suits to be as functional as they are and still remain terrifying is a huge credit to their work.  Through the cleverness of editing and Adrian Biddle’s impressive cinematography, this army of six guys in suits becomes many more, and Ray Lovejoy’s fantastic editing work keeps everything flowing well.  Even when the movie stops to take a breath, we still feel this sense of impending doom on the characters, and Cameron constantly ramps up the tension - I can still hear the beeping from the motion detector - so that in that last 45 minutes, it’s almost unbearable.  At times ALIENS really feels like the intensity of combat.

James Cameron’s biggest contribution to the ALIEN Universe is probably his creation of the Alien Queen, a design so successful that H. R. Giger himself afterwards approved of his work.  The Queen is that missing link in the life cycle of the Xenomorph, one hinted at in the first film (with the incubating of Dallas and Brett in Ridley Scott’s Director’s Cut), but it makes an interesting contrast with Ripley as well.  The Queen makes sense thematically – as Ripley fights for the survival of her surrogate child, the Alien Queen fights for the survival of her race.  The one drawback to how the aliens are portrayed in ALIENS is that while in the first film the alien seems almost indestructible, one of Lovecraft’s Elder Gods brought to terrifying life, in ALIENS they are simply cannon fodder.  Dangerous cannon fodder to be sure – these aliens are still deadly creatures, but they don’t approach the mythic quality that Scott gave to the creature in the first movie.  It’s a necessary evil in regards to the story, but it still needs to be noted.

My preferred cut is the Director’s Cut, even though it impedes the flow of the movie quite a bit, especially in the buildup to the first encounter with the aliens.  I still think the sequence with Ripley learning of her daughter’s death is a little too on-the-nose for me; I don’t think we need that little extra background in Ripley’s life to understand her empathy and love for Newt.  But I love the sequence with Newt’s parents sticking their faces in places they shouldn’t, and I love the sentry guns sequences, showing the Colonial Marines’ situation becoming more desperate by the hour.

An interesting plot hole was pointed out to me just last night, and I feel like a schmuck for not thinking about it sooner: Why wasn’t there any human crew left on the Sulaco?  At least two people who could have navigated the second dropship back to the colony in case things went badly for the Marines.  I can only assume that there wasn’t because the ship was fully automated and it would have been redundant, and that Weyland-Yutani and the Marines figured this on being a milk run, but it is a problem with the story.  Having said that, I never really caught that before now, and it’s a credit to the movie’s power that I didn’t.  It just never occurred to me before now, because the movie is so effective in enveloping you that things like that don’t seem to register.  Unlike PROMETHEUS, where the plot holes seem obvious in retrospect, ALIENS’ plot holes don’t seem to make much of a difference, and that’s due to nature of the script and the relentless pacing of the movie.

ALIENS is that happy moment in a director’s career where his ambitions don’t quite meet the abilities of the film crew.  (After all, this was only James Cameron’s second major film release, following THE TERMINATOR and disavowing PIRANHA II: THE SPAWNING.) Why is that a happy moment?  Because when that happens it forces the director to act creatively.  The biggest problem with the STAR WARS Prequels is simply this – what George Lucas wanted, he got.  As an artist, that might seem incredibly liberating – to create entire worlds out of nothing, and to not be told no as your mind takes off in flight.  But for movies, it simply doesn’t work that way.  The best movies come out of being tested, out of thinking around corners and figuring out how to make things work.  Without any limitations, without anyone to tell you no, without some sort of restraint or outside input, the artist has no idea whether or not their vision even makes sense.  Great art can happen through compromise and collaboration, and no medium proves that better than film.

What does this have to do with ALIENS?  Simple – James Cameron had a strict vision of where he wanted the sequel to go.  He created the story, and even went so far as to help design the ships and weapons, but when it came to the execution it was the limitations that Cameron had to think his way around. Having sown his cinematic oats working for Roger Corman - a master at doing more with less - that helped him spawn his creativity to make ALIENS the great movie that it is today. Make no mistake, ALIENS is James Cameron’s movie, from idea to final edit, but while THE TERMINATOR was guerilla filmmaking at its finest, with ALIENS Cameron had to deal with the studio, with prop makers, artists, actors, producers, budget – it was through that collaboration that ALIENS found its singular voice.

Now James Cameron can call all the shots, much like George Lucas, but he would do well to remember that setting up limitations for yourself as a filmmaker can be just as beneficial to the end product as an unfettered vision unlimited by budget or technology.  The experience may be frustrating, but the passion shows on the screen, more so than a simple green-screen backdrop or creature rendering.  You can feel the effort in every frame of ALIENS, as Cameron and company constantly bump into what the technology of the time allowed.  ALIENS is a scrappy, efficient, locomotive of a movie because of that.  It’s a lesson that’s more important than ever in genre filmmaking these days.  The passion is much more evident, and audiences pick up on it.  James Cameron will always be a passionate filmmaker, no doubt, and he remains a great one.  It’s filmmakers like him, and Peter Jackson, and Steven Spielberg, and Ridley Scott, who oversee their films and don’t rely overly on CGI to realize their vision, but instead get down there and get their hands dirty.  They make their worlds real as a result, and that is what every film aspires to – building better worlds, indeed.

Nordling, out.  Follow me on Twitter!

Additional editing by Travis Leamons. You can read his work at Inside Pulse.

Read my other PERFECT ORGANISM Columns:

Nordling Dissects ALIEN: RESURRECTION!

Nordling Goes To The Mat For ALIEN3!

Readers Talkback
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  • June 17, 2012, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Cameron turned a horror movie into an action movie.

    by knowthyself

    And nobody had a problem with this?

  • June 17, 2012, 2:20 p.m. CST

    What about Alien Resurrection?

    by wackybantha

    Will there be a write-up on that piece of film?

  • June 17, 2012, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Great Stuff

    by Hyphin

    I like this series or articles. I agree with this one.

  • June 17, 2012, 2:27 p.m. CST

    One of the BEST movies ever made. Period.

    by MOOMBA is HERE

    I don't care how many crappy Avatar sequels Cameron plans to shit out in the next 10 years, this is his true masterwork. Anyone saying any different can go fuck themselves. This movie had it all- bigger sense of scope and environment, badass characters, great one-liners, exciting and suspenseful set pieces, and one of the best showdowns in cinematic history rivaling that of Luke vs Vader. It set the standard for action/sci-fi and video game conventions for DECADES afterwards. Moomba has spoken, bitches!

  • June 17, 2012, 2:30 p.m. CST

    wackybantha

    by Nordling

    http://www.aintitcool.com/node/56135

  • June 17, 2012, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Just Gets Better

    by dpc01

    I wasn't all that crazy about ALIENS when I saw it the theater. I liked it, but not as much as I expected to. The occasional replay of bits from ALIEN bothered me. But in the years since I think I can honestly say it literally gets better every time I watch it. I can't think of another movie that has that effect on me, other than perhaps JAWS . So it just might be my favorite movie. The release of the director's cut was a big boost - I think it's a much stronger film now than in 1986. And it's just not aging.

  • And "ALIENS feels even more lived-in than ALIEN if that’s possible." WHA...??? ALIENS looks like Roger Corman with a big budget, with cheap-looking sets and comic book lighting. I like ALIENS. I give it a solid 8/10. It's a fun ride and that's all it ever tries to be. But in terms of resonance and artistry it pales compared to the 10/10 that is ALIEN. I think even Cameron would agree with that.

  • Sorry, the ALIEN formula is definitely there once the story arc with the Colonial Marines is over: - (female) computer voice speaking countdown alerts while the protagonist tries to escape a detonation; - broken android talking with milk mouth; - protagonist trying to blast the alien out of an airlock to resolve the story.

  • June 17, 2012, 2:51 p.m. CST

    Aliens isn‘t better than Alien

    by quintana007

    They‘re different movies and can happily live side by side. Thats one of the benefits when you get mature... you‘ll learn the differences between certain things...

  • June 17, 2012, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Rooms with airtight pressure doors and shared loftspace...

    by JIMBOCOP

    ...accessible by polystyrene ceiling panels. The genius of movie logic.

  • June 17, 2012, 2:55 p.m. CST

    The Biggest Plot Hole In Aliens For Me Is This.....

    by Dick

    After the first encounter with the aliens the survivors decide to return to the Sulaco and nuke the whole site from orbit. Ok that makes sense. Hicks, who is now in charge, orders an immediate evacuation and calls in the drop ship to come pick them up. Ok that makes sense. The drop ship pilot Ferro is in the cockpit ready to take off and telling Spunkmeyer to hurry up and get on board. Ok that makes sense. With Spunkmeyer finally on board they take off but get killed by an alien and crash the drop ship. Ok that makes sense. But in the very next scene all the survivors are back at the main command of the colony talking about what to do next. Now I'm fine with the idea that Hicks, Ripley and co either walked or used the broken tank thing to get back to the colony. But my problem is suddenly Bishop is with them. So your all going to tell me Bishop was left behind at the colony to continue his research on the face huggers. Fine. But when Hicks ordered the immediate evacuation neither Ferro and Spunkmeyer made any attempt to call Bishop on board. I'm assuming that without the alien on board Ferro, Spunkmeyer and the drop ship would have successfully picked up Hicks, Ripley and co and then gone straight back to the Sulaco and nuked the site from orbit. Nuked the entire site including poor old Bishop who everybody seems to have forgotten was still in the lab working on the face huggers. Why didn't Ferro or Spunkmeyer make any attempt to get Bishop on board? Why was Bishop forgotten about? I know Bishop was an artificial lifeform and maybe technically not all that important to the Marines but surely Ferro could have made a quick call and got Bishop on board. It seems to me that Cameron wrote himself into hole there. He didn't send Bishop with the tank to the reactor. But by leaving him at the colony he should reasonably have been expected to join Ferro and Spunkmeyer on the soon to be crashed drop ship. Obviously Cameron couldn't allow Bishop to crash with the drop ship because he needed him for the rest of the movie. So he just ignored the fact that Bishop should have been called to the drop ship and he ignored the fact that Ferro and Spunkmeyer take off without even thinking about Bishop. Bishop just turns up with the rest of the survivors in the next scene oblivious to the fact that in the previous scene he was set to be left behind and nuked from orbit along with the aliens. That's a plot hole right?

  • June 17, 2012, 2:57 p.m. CST

    knowthyself...

    by UltimaRex

    When the results are this good? No. No I don't have a problem with it. Never have, never will.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:05 p.m. CST

    dirstfishuk

    by Brazo

    From what I remember of the movie , That totally makes sense! Never thought about that until you pointed it out.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Bishop left behing..

    by Brazo

  • June 17, 2012, 3:07 p.m. CST

    You think too much

    by borisdoris

  • June 17, 2012, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Bishop left behind...

    by Brazo

    Although it could be argued, as you mentioned that an android represents only manufactured material and that there is no moral ambiguity in the intention of leaving him behind since he's only considered as a "thing". In the state of mind that the characters are in at the time of the decision-making (i.e having lost most of the crew in their first encounter and with Aliens probably closing in on them) it could be argued that the marines had no time to waste on a piece of company equipment and wanted to evacuate ASAP. It's probably like in Memphis Belle when the guys drop their machine guns over the Atlantic ocean so the weigh don't wear them down.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Great article Nordling. Can't wait for the last one!

    by The_Credible_Hulk

  • June 17, 2012, 3:18 p.m. CST

    One thing that bugged me...

    by positivelySlime

    Was how the xenomorphs had patters on their skulls, unlike the one in the first film. Minor gripe, I know...but I hate the way they look in Aliens. Too much obvious man-in-suit moments too...like when Ripley aims the blowtorch at the queen and the two xenos in the corners back away...always looked so cheesy. Decent flick, though. Nowhere near the original, but a good sequel overall.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:19 p.m. CST

    I prefer Aliens to Alien

    by sherlock_junior

    It has Ripley, Paxton and Henrikson in their most iconic moments, so influential and still standing the test of time. Alien Queen is riveting after all these times. No matter how many well done CG monsters came after it (lookin at you LOTR trilogy monsters) Love the music too, just the best! Highly quotive and enormously good for repeated viewings.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:20 p.m. CST

    dirtfishuk...

    by UltimaRex

    As I remember the dropship was at some kind of airfield away from operations where Bishop was. That's why he had to crawl through that pipe to remote the other dropship.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:23 p.m. CST

    what movies have you made, Nordling?

    by antonphd

    i'm just curious, because of your advice to filmmakers

  • June 17, 2012, 3:23 p.m. CST

    @dirtfishuk - it may be a plot hole

    by jazzdownunder

    But look at the lengths you had to go to to identify and establish it's presence. You may be right - you may be wrong. I would have to go back to the movie and check it myself to see if your representation of things is accurate. But let's assume you are right. It may be that some connective tissue that plugs this hole was left on the cutting room floor. And if your point was that people should shut up about plot holes in PRETENTHEUS if they are willing to ignore such things in ALIENS, then I think you missed a key point, a point made by Nordling himself in identifying a plothole of his own in ALIENS. That is, if you need a plot hole to be laid out for you in order to see it, then the movie is working. When plot holes jump out from the screen and pull the audience OUT of the story, then the movie isn't working. If you find yourself sitting there thinking: "WTF? This guy is a) supposed to be a scientist, a biologist and b) a few seconds ago he was shitting bricks and couldn't wait to get the hell out of Dodge, so why the HELL is he now going all goo goo like a 6 year old with a kitten over a strange, new life form ?" Then the movie isn't working. PROMENTIOUS doesn't work. ALIENS does. It's that simple.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Same here, Sherlock Jr.

    by theBigE

    Aliens blew me away at first viewing, and I've watched the director's cut (on Laserdisc!) numerous times. That isn't saying Alien is bad, I just prefer the "war movie - action" genre over "horror."

  • June 17, 2012, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Bishop Left Behind.

    by Dick

    I'll buy into the idea that Ferro and Spunkmeyer left Bishop behind because he was an artificial lifeform. Maybe it was protocol for androids to be left behind in an immediate evacuation. But Bishop was close to the crewe as evidenced by the fun they have with him and the knife trick on the Sulaco. Surely Ferro would have at least spoken to Bishop on the radio. Told him he had 2 minutes to get on board or he's getting left behind. She waited for Spunkmeyer and you would have thought she may have at least warned Bishop they were leaving. I think the Marines like Bishop enough to at least have called him and warned him they were leaving to nuke the planet. Its a plot hole in my book.

  • I love both ALIEN and ALIENS. Neither are perfect, each has a few minor quibbles here and there, but they're both genre classics that will be remembered for many decades to come. And they work together as well as any pairing of original film and sequel ever. Cameron and crew got nearly everything right here, right down to the care they took in recreating the Nostromo escape pod. It's got most of the Cameron trademarks, some of which (the "get away from her you BITCH!" line, most of the character of Vasquez) haven't aged well, but still feels right at home in the universe created by the Ridley Scott film. Speaking of trademarks, one can watch Ripley's those-things-are-really-out-there! ranting at the Company debriefing and almost see Cameron making notes for Sarah Connor's interview at Pescadero.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:35 p.m. CST

    wow..that was an awfull piece of writing

    by paul burnett

    I couldnt write an article on aliens, but then again i'm not paid to. Probably the worst piece ive read on this site and thats saying a lot..just ...wow..terrible

  • June 17, 2012, 3:37 p.m. CST

    The Only Thing Prometheus Got Right....

    by Dick

    Was the androids name. Alien - Ash Aliens - Bishop Alien Resurrection - Call Prometheus - David A B C D If there is a Prometheus sequel it will probably feature a female android called Eve.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Alien story beats in Aliens

    by DEX

    Good article! One thing that always bothered me about Aliens was why the climax of the film had to follow the beats of Alien: self destruct countdown, alien hitches ride, alien appears just when we think they're safe, alien is blown out the air lock. I felt the movie should've tried harder to be different in that case. Alien: masterpiece, Aliens: classic action movie.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Game over, man!

    by SenatorJeffersonSmith

    that is all

  • June 17, 2012, 3:42 p.m. CST

    I will always prefer Alien to Aliens.

    by disfigurehead

    But I did see Aliens twice opening weekend but it's still just an action movie that happens to have aliens in it. Alien for me is the shit.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Red Letter Media on Prometheus

    by catlettuce4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-x1YuvUQFJ0

  • June 17, 2012, 3:47 p.m. CST

    LOL!

    by fitzcarraldo2

    "Instead of repeating story beats, ALIENS is genuinely different from Ridley Scott’s film" Ha! You mean apert from shamelessly ripping off Alien's final act in every detail?

  • Only on the Internet, Christ.

  • June 17, 2012, 3:49 p.m. CST

    Not a plot hole, but a question

    by JIMBOCOP

    Was the Space Jockey ship far enough away from the colony to survive the nuclear blast?

  • June 17, 2012, 3:50 p.m. CST

    As a child to me this was much scarier than Alien

    by UGG

    mainly for the scene with Newt in the sewers. I'll never forget holding my breath in sheer terror and my heart pounding when watching that as a 7-8 year old. I like them both the same now, it all depends on what mood I'm in when picking which I'd prefer to watch.

  • is Ian Holm/Brian Cox flipping out and trying to ram a ROLLED UP FUCKING MAGAZINE? down Ripleys throat?!

  • June 17, 2012, 4 p.m. CST

    Aliens is a classic

    by CoolerKing72

    Nuff said.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Ripley's arm and/or leg would have ripped off at the end

    by Rupee88

    She's holding onto that rung on the ladder adn the Alien queen is pulling her and space is sucking it out and the weight of the loader is on her leg too. Yeah makes a lot of sense. Very overrated film. Was a fun ride at the time but never one of the greats.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:09 p.m. CST

    Aliens > Alien

    by AMchannelEpicwish@Youtube

    I like both films but the sequel is a more realized and better executed film. It was intended to be a thrill ride, and succeeds without fail. Alien was going for horror, and i feel falls slightly short. Slightly.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:10 p.m. CST

    Rupee88 - you know what the queen weighs, do you?

    by irishraidersfan

    Oh, no? Like the rest of us, you don't? Then STFU.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Bishop left behind

    by thorp

    Bishop was at A, the marines who were in combat and calling for IMMEDIATE evac were at B, Ferro was at C. I don't think it would be tactically sound to swing by and pick up the android while the combat team is in danger.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Aliens is the better movie yes.

    by Volllllume3

    That shouldn't even be argued imo.

  • Yeah. I expect it daily. jesus.

  • Please, piss off. Are a lot of the cast cannon fodder? Sure. As they were in Aliens. Not as bad in Aliens, but Wierzbowski? Yeah. Frost? Dietrich? Riiiight. There purely to die. Do some of the characters in Prometheus do stupid things? Sure. In Alien, much as I love it, Ripley GOES BACK FOR A FUCKING CAT. Please, just because Prometheus wasn't what you 'wanted', grow up and try it again in a few years, because it's a lot better than you think. Perfect? No. But better than the slating you ADD fucktards are giving it.

  • they aren't? Nuance is the actor's job, detail is the writer's job. The characters in Alien, save Ripley, are just as stock as Aliens, and both sets are memorable because of good acting, and 'Not Dumb' writing.

  • "Is this going to be a standup fight, Sir, or another bug hunt" that line always got me thinking of what bugs these guys hunted and other such missions involving the team.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Prometheus ROCKED

    by Red_Right_Return

    Guess it was above the heads of many people. Anyhow, loved Aliens but it wasn't as good as Alien. I think one of the things that made it successful was the fact that in Alien the creature took out everyone except Ripley and was nearly invincible. In Aliens, we knew the danger the people were going to be in, but I was there in the theater that day when the first Alien got wasted. I cheered with everyone else. Hence, they did their research. Like the tagline says: This time its war.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Alien bettter than Aliens.

    by Red_Right_Return

    Nuff said.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:20 p.m. CST

    cool, i just watched ALIENS on blu-ray a few hours ago :)

    by brightgeist

    and even though i must have seen it at least 10 times, it's still fucking great! oh, and i was so happy to see that they have fixed the "Bishop hole" blooper! :) regarding PROMETHEUS... there is so much great and awesome about this movie, the questions and themes and meanings behind it, the future tech, the characters, the visual and 3D side... that i just don't understand how any science fiction fan can not love this film. it's EXACTLY what great science fiction is supposed to be! and frankly, most of the criticism i read, is clearly based on people missing something or having zero imagination.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Rupee3 - the Queen isn't falling under gravity

    by JIMBOCOP

    She's being sucked out of an airlock, so weight isn't the issue, drag is. Saying that, Ripley should have had hip issues anyway.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:23 p.m. CST

    +100, icanthavethat

    by Tom

    it's like the Chris Farley Show on SNL..."Remember when Ripley got in the power loader? That was awesome!".

  • June 17, 2012, 4:25 p.m. CST

    You mean you can like two things at once on this site?

    by master_of_realty

  • June 17, 2012, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Maybe James Cameron and Ridley Scott should have made PROMETHEUS together.

    by Mr. Pricklepants

    James Cameron writing the screenplay en Ridley Scott directing the movie.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:30 p.m. CST

    @mr_incredible

    by Red_Right_Return

    Don't see why, it was just perfect the way it was. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing the collaborate.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:31 p.m. CST

    Game over, man! Game over!

    by F-18

  • June 17, 2012, 4:34 p.m. CST

    seymourscagnettisbruisedego

    by Bouncy X

    sure you can like 2 things at once here.....as long as everyone agrees they are both good. :P oh and someone mentioned not liking the ridges on the alien heads and sorta blaming cameron and/or winston. but thats actually what it looked like, its mentioned on the extras. they had the original head and removed the dome and discovered and it was all bone ridges under there. i imagine they redesigned it a little so it didnt look like actual bone like giger's design but yeah.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:35 p.m. CST

    What you expect us to use man, Harsh language?

    by donkey_lasher

  • .. the reference to Ripley's daughter. Are we really meant to believe that 26-28 year old Ellen Ripley from the first Alien, has had a daughter before? With that bony ass!? Nobody with a baby wears underpants that small!

  • June 17, 2012, 4:43 p.m. CST

    @dirtfishuk

    by brightgeist

    having seen the movie just a few hours ago, these are the facts: there are THREE locations: * there's the main base, where Bishop is working on the facehuggers. * there's the atmosphere processor, where they have that first encounter with the aliens. * and there's some other site, where Ferro and Spunkmeyer go with the drop ship after dropping the others off at the main base. so, after Ripley and the others drive the APC out of the atmosphere processor location, and the APC's driving axle breaks, they call Ferro at the third site, and she and Spunkmeyer take off immediately (after Spunkmeyer got back on board). in order to pick up Bishop at that moment, they would have had to fly to the main base first, which was clearly not their priority at the time. i would imagine that, if the xenomorph hadn't gotten on the drop ship, and they had picked up Ripley and the others, they would also have made a quick stop at the main base to pick up Bishop, before leaving and nuking the place.

  • And boy do they make an awesome double bill. Alien is an excellent haunted house in space horror movie, whereas Aliens is just a balls to the walls action thriller. Both are tense and riveting, but in completely different ways. I actually saw Aliens before I saw Alien, but it was an interesting way round to watch things. Wouldn't change that for the world.

  • Watch it again; it just looks awkward most of the time. In the sequel, they move more like animals or insects. Looks better in my opinion. And I don't think Cameron treated them like cannon fodder either. It's war; there are supposed to be hundreds upon hundreds of these things running around. There's no time for getting to know you moments. Besides the introduction of the queen makes up for that. Great movie. In my Top 10 of All-Time.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:46 p.m. CST

    I've been wondering why anybody wasn't left on the Sulaco since the 90's...

    by AnarchyWorldsEnd

    Huge plot hole in a great movie LOL!

  • June 17, 2012, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Cameron coming into his own

    by Industrious Angel

    There's really no use in comparing Alien/Aliens as both are excellent, but vastly different films. But while Alien is only one more step on Ridely Scott's career, Aliens lets us be witness to Cameron finding his voice as a director and narrator. Now don't get me wrong; I'm not that big a fan of Camerons large-scale corporate filmmaking (and the inclusion of Newt is exactly what defines this kind of films) - i still favour Terminator to T2 - but I can't deny Cameron is master of this "genre" - action films depicting group dynamics. Nobody gets us as "into" the action as he does; even the cheesy moments in "Avatar" are counterbalanced by superb handling of multiple characters on both sides. And you can see all of these things-to-come in "Aliens", it's a prototype for Cameron's later work just as Alien was a prototype for other director's films - while Ridley Scott followed other paths.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:46 p.m. CST

    I remember showing Aliens to my boy when he was about 13...

    by ChickenStu

    The bit at the end. "Punch it Bishop!!!" The ship rockets away from the exploding building. James Horner's music kicks in... The ship rises through the atmosphere and we see the explosion under the clouds... I remember my son turning to me and saying "I think that may be the coolest thing I've ever seen..." And yet there was STILL more to come! I FUCKING LOVE THIS MOVIE!!!

  • June 17, 2012, 4:47 p.m. CST

    @autodidact

    by brightgeist

    i know mother who do wear underpants that small :P also, around the year 2120, there might be other ways to get a child...

  • June 17, 2012, 4:51 p.m. CST

    @chickenstu

    by brightgeist

    i agree, one of THE greatest climaxes in movie history! although it's not the final climax :)

  • June 17, 2012, 4:51 p.m. CST

    Yep

    by Jeff

    I pretend "Alien 3" and whatever the fourth one was called, never happened. Literally, I hated them so much that my mind has cancelled them from existence. And I'm much, much happier for it. "Alien" and "Aliens" and now, sort of, "Prometheus." Just those three. Good analysis of "Aliens," Nordling! Interesting to read, and you managed to bring up points I'd never considered before. Cool.

  • June 17, 2012, 4:54 p.m. CST

    ALIENS is scarier as a movie and as an idea

    by Autodidact

    ALIEN has a persistent eery and ominous atmosphere. It seems scary. But the idea of being trapped with one alien in space with no facehuggers around is just not as scary as being trapped near a hundred or so aliens who want to wall you up for the facehuggers. As a kid, and now, the idea of being facehugged is what really freaked me out about ALIEN/S... nvermind the adult ALIEN who can kill you like ten different ways. ALIENS has a few jump scares early on that really work. There's like 3 or 4 good ones with the cat and the facehugger in the tank that jumps at Burke, and Newt flashing past the camera, etc. Just to name a few of the better scary scenes: First of all, pretty much any time a motion tracker is being used. The chestburster scene is scary because you know what's going to happen and the camera just stays on it. As a kid I used to really wish it would cut away more. Newt and Ripley locked in medlab with the facehuggers: that shit's scary. Then there's the sewer scene where the alien rises up behind Newt: pooped my pants on that one for reals. And when Ripley is trapped on the platform with Newt and the alien queen comes out of the elevator... da's scary! There's more, but anyhow. ALIENS is scary and I will always love that fucking movie. I might screen the blu-ray tonight!

  • June 17, 2012, 4:55 p.m. CST

    OK brightgeist, I'll admit something to you about that climax...

    by ChickenStu

    Not only does it thrill the fuck out of me (EVERY DAMN TIME) but for some reason that I can't explain... it really moves me emotionally. The second she says "PUNCH IT BISHOP" I get a lump in my throat and my eyes go a little wet. And then of course, that final shot of Ripley and Newt hugging each other tightly just before the "BOOM" from below! Wow. Why the fuck isn't Cameron making shit like this anymore. Fuck it, why isn't ANYONE?!?

  • Couldn't they just have had the ship eject only Ripley and be like "oh sorry Hicks and Newt are still in hypersleep on their way to earth... your pod was ejected due to fire/contagion."

  • June 17, 2012, 5 p.m. CST

    STOP STICKING UP FOR PROMETHEUS...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...it's FATALLY flawed. Sad, but true. Time to get over it and move on.

  • June 17, 2012, 5:04 p.m. CST

    STOP SAYING PROMETHEUS IS FLAWED

    by Red_Right_Return

    Its your fucking opinion. I've got mine and I think it was nearly perfect.

  • every one of the ALIEN movies has been either "scary haunted house IN SPACE" or "war movie IN SPACE" or simply "monster movie IN SPACE", and the PREDATOR and AVP movies clearly aren't what i would call "pure science fiction" either. but PROMETHEUS is the first film that is first and foremost SCIENCE FICTION, with all the most important elements that good science fiction needs: cool future technology that makes sense as an extension of today's tech, interesting characters/relationships, and moral/philosophical themes and questions that can make the audience THINK (if they like to use their brains at all).

  • June 17, 2012, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Yes they're both 10/10 and you should double-bill whenever possible

    by Autodidact

    You know I don't think I've ever actually watched them back-to-back in one sitting. I rarely ever watch any two movies back to back. I like to savour every screening. But I have watched ALIEN one night and ALIENS the next night a bunch of times. Last night I watched ALIEN RESURRECTION, for some reason, and enjoyed it. I did skip the last 25 minutes this time, making it about a 1hr 20 minute experience.

  • June 17, 2012, 5:09 p.m. CST

    @brightgeist

    by Red_Right_Return

    Yeah agreed with you. People like johnnywong can't THINK though. Look at the guy trying to tell us how we should think. There really aren't many Science Fiction movies these days because most people are just sheep who listen to idiots like Johnnywong.

  • June 17, 2012, 5:09 p.m. CST

    @chickenstu

    by brightgeist

    i know the feeling :)

  • So you could argue that all the ALIEN movies are pretty hard sci-fi, given that we're bound to run into some nasties when our technology finally carries us out to the stars.

  • June 17, 2012, 5:14 p.m. CST

    @brightgeist

    by ChickenStu

    thank fuck for that. Thought I was weird or something... There's a few bits in "Speed" that do that to me aswell...

  • What's wrong with ya, fellow north americans??? Prometheus is failing in the box office!!! seriously??? Don't you wanna see another chapter of that movie??? "Prometheus" is real, beautiful and imaginative sci-fi!!! And if you go lookin for flats, you can find them in any movie. Just enjoy it as the beautifull and thrilling movie that is Do you really prefer things like "Madagascar" (not bad, just some fun, but by any means a masterpiece), "Twilight series" (utter shit), and "The hunger games" (first hour is OK, but when the game stars it gets bouring. Is not even a good movie, just and OK movie). I don't understand it. Really, it's a pitty.

  • That way, Ripley could've died at the end - and the fourth movie could've been about Hicks going back into space to find her - finding out she's dead and then getting into an nightmare with the Chestbursters all on his own... Yeah man! That would've worked!

  • June 17, 2012, 5:21 p.m. CST

    @brightgeist, I'm with you 100%

    by kim

  • June 17, 2012, 5:23 p.m. CST

    @quimbarcelona you are 100% correct. I'm going to see Promentheus again btw.

    by Red_Right_Return

  • June 17, 2012, 5:25 p.m. CST

    @red_right_return

    by brightgeist

    exactly. i mean about science fiction movies, not about johnnywrong, i don't like all this ad hominem stuff here. but i do agree that there are hardly any real science fiction movies made anymore these days. even STAR TREK has been turned into mostly action/adventure. STAR TREK (TOS) started out as a show intended for social commentary disguised as a "silly starship show", because Roddenberry couldn't have said the things he wanted to say on television any other way in those days. during TOS and TNG, that spirit was very much there, but after Roddenberry's death, TREK lost more and more of that stuff that can make people think. and JJ Abrams' movie has really been the culmination of that trend. even though i love it as an action/adventure movie, it hurts me to see such brainless science fiction under the name STAR TREK. but it's simply a reflection of society. when you look at the stuff that's on television (which i have been actively avoiding for years), stupid people and stupid shows are popular, and the more stupid, the more the audience can identify with it. so it's really not surprising that many people have an averse reaction to a film like PROMETHEUS. it's like when someone who only eats McDonald's food all the time, is suddenly treated to a 5 course gourmet meal, they will probably not like it as much as they like a saggy cheeseburger, and they will also complain about how stupid it is that there are so many forks and knives. and all those "plot holes" in between the courses :P

  • June 17, 2012, 5:29 p.m. CST

    @autodidact

    by brightgeist

    okay, then we have a slightly different definition of "real science fiction". to me, one of the most important elements of it is the moral or social commentary, the allegories and metaphors that are told within the futuristic settings, the moral dilemmas that are raised and often can only be raised in a science fiction setting, like "are artificial people alive?" and stuff like that. the things that make you think. that's "real science fiction" to me. but your definition isn't any less valid :)

  • June 17, 2012, 5:33 p.m. CST

    @quimbarcelona

    by brightgeist

    i am 100% with you too. it's a sad and really shocking reflection of our society today, to see a movie like PROMETHEUS doing worse than some brainless second sequel about animated zoo animals.

  • June 17, 2012, 5:33 p.m. CST

    "Somebody wake up Hicks."

    by Farrokh

  • June 17, 2012, 5:38 p.m. CST

    I can't wait to see PROMETHEUS again

    by Autodidact

    Maybe tomorrow night.

  • June 17, 2012, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Aliens Is The Empire Strikes Back Of The Series

    by Mako

    Just like Star Wars is loved for being the one that started it all.... So Alien does the same for me. They are not perfect movies. The effects, pace and dialogue can be a little rough around the edges. But Aliens does what Empire does. Makes a better movie that in many ways... Makes my love for the originals that much more. Rarely do sequels do this. But I still feel Aliens is Cameron's best work to date. And I agree with Nordlings Insight above. Well said.

  • June 17, 2012, 5:44 p.m. CST

    ALIEN 3 got a little bit JAWS IV if you know what I mean

    by Autodidact

    Although I say that only to be funny as I love ALIEN 3 (and not JAWS IV).

  • I wrote it as a novel, on a yellow legal pad, because I had no idea about screenplays back then. It started with the Sulaco splashing down into the ocean on Earth. Ripley, Hicks and Newt are swimming for shore when an ALIEN cuts them off. They light up a pool of oil/fuel that's on the water to kill/escape. That was it, about four pages and I gave up. Since then I've flirted with the concept of submitting some ALIENS comic stories to Dark Horse. Still might do so.

  • June 17, 2012, 5:53 p.m. CST

    The difference between Alien and Aliens

    by MarAlaTho

    They’re both great movies, but Aliens is a comic book, while Alien is true.

  • June 17, 2012, 5:54 p.m. CST

    Haven't read the article or talkbacks yet but...

    by phifty2

    ALIENS is the greatest fucking film ever made.

  • June 17, 2012, 5:54 p.m. CST

    STAR WARS is a sci-fi film if you focus on the Death Star

    by Autodidact

    Once the story is more about jedi/family and politics it's "space opera".

  • June 17, 2012, 5:58 p.m. CST

    The Music in the final scene is some of the best...ever.

    by bohdi71

  • June 17, 2012, 6 p.m. CST

    I don't like the special edition... blecch

    by Autodidact

    1. The early reveal of the colony and the facehugging of Newt's parents removes a lot of the tension and surprise from my favourite part of the movie, which is the sqeuence where they first recon the facilty. 2. Ripley talking about a daughter that was not discussed in the first movie is stupid. 3. The sentry guns scene is lame. It makes the aliens seem kind of stupid, when they're supposed to be a bit more canny. If they kept attacking when the guns ran out of ammo, then maybe.. but the fact that they're "tricked" by the guns makes this scene a good one to leave out of the real cut. 4. That lame moment when Ripley and Hicks exchange first names is trite, unrealistic, maybe also out of character given the context (Ripley is not thinking about herself at this point in the story). etc.

  • The SULACO is super-bright because it's a fucking military barracks/base.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:08 p.m. CST

    @brightgeist - "science" is the key word in science fiction

    by jazzdownunder

    So here's the problem with calling PROMENTIOUS "science fiction"... Biologists who don't act/behave like biologists. DNA that can be an exact "100% match" but which then results in lifeforms that aren't just different in small ways such as bone structure, skin pigmentation, eye color etc or some slight difference in size, but in a life-form which is 2 feet or more taller and built like the side of a barn compared to their DNA twins. Archaeologists/anthrapologists that suddenly become Dr Frankenstein whilst under the watchful gaze of medically better qualified people who just do what she tells them and "hey presto" reanimate a severed head by sticking some sort of mini-cattle prod in it's ear. Speaking of severed heads... a head that isn't just dead but which was severed from a body which had been previously declared to have been dead for 2,000 years. A head which a scan for pathogens failed to identify inside a "helmet". Even if the head - being "human" didn't trigger the pathogen scan, the black goo that it - we subsequently find - was "infected with" would be clearly identified as a foreign/alien substance. A "pathogen scanner" brought along on a MISSION TO AN ALIEN PLANET/MOON would NOT have been programmed ONLY to check for KNOWN pathogens and just ignore anything it didn't recognise. If you rely on that to explain the lack of warning issued by the pathogen scanner then you really do have to give up with calling this turd "science fiction", and just stick with "fantasy fiction". An automated medical device which refuses to perform female surgery on the basis that it is programmed only for male procedures, but which when (implausibly) reprogrammed for a generic procedure to remove a "foreign body" from the abdomen, neatly performs a Caesarian rather than a hysterectomy - HINT: male anatomy doesn't include a uterus or ovaries etc. Having established (rather dubiously, scientifically speaking, it has to be said) that the atmosphere is unbreathable, having your characters then breathe it is a bit UNSCIENTIFIC, wouldn't you say? Shaw and The Engineer at the end are both helmet-less on the surface of LV-223. Just having space monsters and space ships does not qualify as "science fiction" any more than having swords and jousting would qualify as a "medieval period drama". PRETENTHUS is (a bad) fantasy in space, not "science fiction".

  • June 17, 2012, 6:10 p.m. CST

    So dull at this point, but I'm saying it anyway.

    by gotilk

    You do NOT have to be a painter to know what's wrong with a painting. If you ARE a painter, only the excuses are improved. ONLY the excuses are improved. I said it again in hopes that it sinks in. It applies to any and all art forms. Anyway, I think Aliens is a nearly perfect film. Is there a perfect film? Haven't seen it yet if it exists. So it is high praise. Some small criticisms are probably not constructive at this point, for this filmmaker, but they are accurate. But to ask what films he's made in order for his criticism to be valid? I demand the return of your alleged PHD immediately. Most idiots realize this is bullshit.

  • Sure any review of ALIENS must mention Alien but after that you review it as its own film. And Vasquez having a history with Gorman? No.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:12 p.m. CST

    And I agree about not seeing this coming.

    by gotilk

    I fully expected a cheap, b-movie sequel. It blew me out of my seat. Caught me off guard.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:13 p.m. CST

    PROMETHEUS...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...I say it's flawed because it is. I wanted to like it, to love it, and I couldn't, as it's flaws are huge. If you can't see them you're either in denial or just not that smart.

  • I seriously wonder if James Cameron even bothered to watch Alien. The company knew that the eggs were on LV 426 in Alien, why did they wait for Ripley to be found before sending the colonist to check it out? Why would the aliens make the interior of the colony buildings look like the interior of the derelict craft when that wasn't even their ship to begin with. How would they even know what the hell the inside of that ship looked like? How is it now possible to kill the perfect organism with a handgun? Seriously, according to James Cameron if Tom Skerritt had a fucking handgun Alien would've been over in 15 minutes. Then there's the incredibly stupid decision to make the aliens a fucking hive mentality creature, the Marines were fighting space ants. And the ending of that movie is Michael Bay retarded, she climbs into a giant robot and fistfights the queen?! if I had read that in the script I would've thought it was a joke. The directors cut of Alien3 is a far better and far more interesting film than Aliens, and Prometheus makes aliens look like fucking Transformers. If you disagree that's okay, you're wrong.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:16 p.m. CST

    SAYING I CAN'T THINK...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...priceless. I have clearly thought about it A LOT more than you. Happy trolling, lowlife.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:22 p.m. CST

    JAZZDOWNUNDER...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...you nailed it. Sad but true fact is that great sci-fi doesn't often exist outside of books. Somebody have the balls to make Hyperion and make it well, please...

  • Huh? The only openly aggressive act toward the alien in Alien is blowing it out of the ship and cooking it in the engines. That worked out pretty well. In ALIENS these things just keep coming and coming and won't stop until you're dead or all of them are. They won't leave you alone unlike Alien where the motivation of the creature seems to be just find a nice quiet spot and hide. I love Alien, in fact it's on tv right now and I always watch it but the atmosphere, tension, horror, repulsion, terror, danger and desperation are just amped up in ALIENS to 11. Just. My. Opinion.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:25 p.m. CST

    DCUT75...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ..."The company knew that the eggs were on LV 426 in Alien, why did they wait for Ripley to be found before sending the colonist to check it out?" Not only is this very badly written, but it highlights how badly you need to re-watch the film PAYING ATTENTION THIS TIME in order to understand it.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Nordling: You're welcome

    by Meta

    If you're going to fix your spelling mistake of Lance Henriksen's name, after I pointed it out, you could at least acknowledge it. Even a "Thank You" would be nice. Not just delete my post and pretend it never happened in the first place.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:28 p.m. CST

    johnnywrong

    by gotilk

    Apt name. Yes, Prometheus has flaws, but you could drive a truck through the holes in other beloved films in this series. dcut75 points out a few. Doesn't make Aliens a bad film(AT ALL), but it doesn't negate the problem either. Just like me liking Prometheus doesn't negate ITS flaws.

  • It was a spirited, worthy sequel, that took the previous film's ideas and ran with them. There are ALWAYS going to be plot holes in science-fiction movies, because we are dealing with things that cannot exist. The idea is that the movie makes ENOUGH sense that you can suspend your disbelief. It's not that fucking hard to understand.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Johnnywrong...

    by dcut75

    One, I'm using speech to text to write this so you'll have to forgive my grammar and nonpoetic writing. But please enlighten me on why they waited for Ripley to wake up to send the colonists out to find the ship. And don't give me some bullshit about them not believing Ripley story because the company knew the aliens were there in Alien, they redirected the Nostromo to LV for 26 for the sole purpose of bringing back an organism with them. I also love it that the first thing that is attacked once I point out the flaws in a beloved film is my grammar. I'm in the car still using speech to text so make sure you cut this paragraph up for me, thanks pal.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:37 p.m. CST

    NONE OF THE OTHER FILMS IN THE SERIES...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...have flaws that had me rolling my eyes in the cinema and taking me out of the action. This did. If you were happy, then I'm happy for you, but I look for more from my cinema.

  • It's entirely plausible that the alien would act differently when in large groups, possibly being directed by some kind of "hive mind" mentality created by the queen. In the first film, the alien was isolated and was likely seeking to hide until it could properly reproduce (see deleted scenes). In regards to the aliens in ALIENS being "cannon fodder", there isn't any force used against the creature from the first movie to gauge it's actual toughness in any way (other than it's unsurprising vulnerability to the blast from the shuttle's engines, duh) to suggest that there was a deviation from the norm.

  • For all those who did spend their time becoming emotionally invested in the characters of Newt and Hix in Aliens, as I did, Ali3n does have to be one of the biggest FUs to the audience in the history of sequelitis. For the writers to do that in the credit's sequence even! It made me hate it forever before it even started. <p> IMO, Aliens is fun, in a war porn in space kind of way- a trope that has since been done to death and done to death again and again, but never quite as successfully. (Man, does Avatar ever try.) It's OK entertainment, just as T2, Abyss, Avatar, Titanic, etc. are OK to me- dramatic, impressive in their technical prowess, eye candy a-plenty- but yes, also with a fair amount of schmaltz thrown in to stand for emotional weight. Honestly, there are moments in all of his films are way over the top for me- as in, too much. It's fun, but kind of like eating fried food, and let's leave it at that. <P> Honestly, though, I enjoyed Prometheus the most of all the movies in this universe, probably because I haven't held any of them as preciously as some have, but also because I love reinterpretations of myth, and this film is the beginning of a true odyssey both forward and backwards in time. <P> But seriously, all you people bitching about the same things over and over and over in every single thread about it, when, by now, there have been volumes of posts here, on IMDB and elsewhere addressing each and every one of your supposed plot-holes in detail. Yet, you still interject your vitriol and hackneyed monikers in every single serious attempt by those who appreciated it to discuss the many questions the storyline raises. Please note, how I call them "questions." Yet, we're called "apologists" for enjoying a film more than you did- as if we had raped the Earth, air and ocean by the very act of this. Let's put things in perspective here, and, on this Father's Day, reflect on disappointment, frustration, anger, abandonment, and how.. how do we forgive? <P> To quote FBI Special Agent Albert Rosenfield: [to Sheriff Truman] "Now you listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman."

  • LOL!!!! That is one of the few fuck-ups in an otherwise Grade-A film. And yes, probably the best sci-fi sequel ever made.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:40 p.m. CST

    @quimbarcelona. PROMETHEUS holds #2 for a second week

    by film11

    But still, the kiddie movie wins #1. See, even without some impending laws, the U,S, is a "nanny" country. And mature/adult/serious films are, for the most part, frowned upon. The key word for most U.S. most viewers is "inoffensive." And those people, if they see PROMETHEUS at all, would probably respond "ewwwww!" Thankfully, our brothers and sisters overseas are more culturally ahead of us...and we are grateful that they've provided strong numbers for the film.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:42 p.m. CST

    DCUT75...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...you have not paid attention. "But please enlighten me on why they waited for Ripley to wake up to send the colonists out to find the ship." They didn't. "...the company knew the aliens were there in Alien" Again, they didn't. And stop endangering lives, you fucking moron. When you're in control of a lethal object, pay fucking attention to the road!

  • June 17, 2012, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Alien is a slasher movie, Aliens is a war movie

    by voxmortis

    It's foolish to compare, so why try...

  • June 17, 2012, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Fuckingamateurman

    by dcut75

    How did you disprove me? You restated what I said about the colony, then you agreed with me about the "nest.". All you did was admit you liked the shitty ending.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:43 p.m. CST

    P,S,

    by film11

    The longer running time for PROMETHEUS (vs. the approx 90 minute length of MADAGASCAR) means that there are fewer showings of PROMETEHUS and more for MADAGASCAR, further contributing that that film's box office. Oh, and I'm one of those who have yet to see Ridley's film...going this week.

  • Although ALIEN > ALIENS

  • Black Smoke Monster = Black Goo Both nebulous and ultimately meaningless

  • "They're dead alright, can I go now?" UGH.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:47 p.m. CST

    enough Plot Holes on this forum

    by Mako

    Plot holes now refer to a persons anus. Especially the people who keep spewing these movies have too many plot holes. Blah blah blah plot holes blah blah blah I'm so smart blah blah blah plot holes blah blah blah

  • June 17, 2012, 6:55 p.m. CST

    ALIEN = 9.9 ALIENS = 8 THAT'S HOW I'VE ALWAYS SEEN IT.

    by Astronut

    And you know why? ALIEN set the stage for the unique, fascinating universe. It had all the stars in alignment so to speak. Sure, there are some slight errors in it, some dodgy effects shots (transition to Ash's head on the table to name one)... but god damn if that film isn't a pubic hair away from being a perfect 10. I know they are different styles of film but I still say ALIEN trumps ALIENS by a noticable margin. ALIENS is bad-ass, no question about it. FANTASTIC work. Especially considering Cameron had big shoes to fill. But he did the right thing - - he went a different direction. I have always applauded him for that. ALIEN is a masterwork. It is almost god-like in its delivery. The shock, the awe, the suspense, the fear, the WTF IS THAT?!!?!! Due in very large part to H.R. Giger. I agree with damn near every single word you spelled out, Nording. No lie. Well said.

  • June 17, 2012, 6:59 p.m. CST

    johnnywrong

    by dcut75

    What? Have you seen Alien? The company redirected the ship to LV-426 to find the alien. The colonist went to the derelict craft on Burke's orders. They lost contact with the colony, who had been there for years, days after Ripley got back.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:01 p.m. CST

    Why can't anyone in here accept that an opinion is a personal thing?

    by baronweazle

    There is no right or wrong. It's quite simply a matter of taste. Something that makes you very excited might bore someone else and vice versa. I loved Prometheus, same for Alien and I even like Alien 3 and Alien:resurrection. But I've always found Aliens to be tedious and dull. I like it untill the moment the aliens start attacking, after that the movie always loses me. I have the same thing with Cameron's Terminator 2, love the first half, but it always loses me once they get into the desert. That doesn't mean they are bad films though! Given all the love most people have for both, I'd even say they are both very great films. That is just the effect they have on me. Simply a matter of personal taste and opinion. But I think that is a good thing. Don't get me wrong I love debating films, just like all of you do. But I still think we should respect each others opinions. Not say stuff like Alien is better than Aliens nuff said, or Prometheus is fatally flawed everyone should accept that. Just my opinion though.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:03 p.m. CST

    DCUT75...

    by Johnny Wrong

    "The company redirected the ship to LV-426 to find the alien." No. To check a mysterious signal of unknown origin. "The colonist went to the derelict craft on Burke's orders." No they didn't. You're having some pretty fundamental difficulties grasping the plots of these fairly simple movies, son.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:07 p.m. CST

    Biggest hole in aliens:

    by -Halfscan-

    The way Ripley is scoffed when she mentions the Nostromo encountered an Alien lifeform by both the Company and the Marines ("there hadn't been anything relating to extraterrestrials recorded in over 300 surveyed worlds")... yet there are numerous other references that extraterrestrial life forms are indeed a known part of this universe ("Arcturian poontang", various "Bug Hunt" references, etc).

  • June 17, 2012, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Aliens is a great, great movie, but I too prefer Alien.

    by Yamato

  • If I recall, she described it and they said there was nothing like it in over 300 recorded worlds. They could have run into Na'vi, and they are nothing like the aliens in this movie.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:21 p.m. CST

    As I've grown up...

    by Mark Jones

    ... I've started to appreciate Alien more than it's easily-accessible sequel. That's not to say I don't rate Aliens as one of the best sci-fi actioners of all time, which it is. But the disturbing and haunting quality of the first film, including the sexual undertones, make it a truly frightening piece.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:21 p.m. CST

    On the short list of greatest action films ever made.

    by Brian Hopper

    Aliens is practically a guidebook on how to make a good action movie. I can remember seeing this three or four times in the summer of '86 at the Avco in Westwood... honestly, among the most enjoyable times ever in a movie theater. It's hard to convey in words just how much the audience loved this movie and got into it. Just a VERY intense and enjoyable film to see in the theater. To give a simple example: I can still remember the audience intensity when the creatures are advancing on the operations center... 'They're everywhere, they're all around us!' and... 'Well you're not reading it right' etc etc. And then when Hicks leans over to Ripley and says, 'Remember: short, controlled bursts.' It was like... WTF is about to happen here?! You could cut the tension in the air in that theater. Incredible. The influence of Aliens is (obviously) enormous, both on video games and films. The whole real-time video POV thing with the colonial marines was relatively novel at the time (I think Aliens was the first to employ it, or employ it extensively?). It works amazingly well in the film. Like the greatest action film (Raiders of the Lost Ark) and other action classics (Die Hard), Aliens works because it has a heart. You CARE about Ripley and these characters. Aliens is a surprisingly emotionally involving film for an action film... so much credit goes to Sigourney Weaver on that one. Her emotional investment in the part as an actor is so apparent, and it really pays off. I had TOTALLY forgotten she was nominated for Best Actress for her Ripley performance, in what has to be one of the few (if only) such nominations for an actress in an action movie! It's a richly deserved nomination, as would have been the award. One last thing that sometimes gets overlooked: Aliens is hilarious! It's a VERY funny movie, and one of the few action films ever made (Die Hard and Raiders are others) that really knows how to counterbalance action elements with humor. Hudson and Apone are like a freaking comedy team. If only most action films were half as good as Aliens. You secure that shit, Hudson!

  • June 17, 2012, 7:21 p.m. CST

    Alien made for 8 million, Aliens for 18 million

    by BubbaDestructo

    Incredible how effective both directors were with budgeting on these films. The behind-the-scenes on Aliens shows how Cameron made that atmosphere processor nuclear explosion cloud in the near-end of the movie by simply under-lighting some cotton balls from below and manually lifting a mushroom-shaped cotton ball construction from the rest of the cotton balls surrounding it. And it looks absolutely epic in the final scene. Practical effect. Pure genius.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Sorry, but I was actually a young kid when Aliens came out...

    by PCMODEMTCG

    Aliens was and is incredible. In the world of today, where everyone has the internet, CGI, and is totally used to watching tentpole, summer blockbuster style movies that make no sense, have no soul, and are mindless corporate entertainment, I can see why some may say Aliens is no good. I have read many of the comments that have been posted and I don't feel the need to be rude or cruel - your opinions are your opinions. I do see a good many that must have a sense of issues due to continuity or the fact that there were certain "plot holes". What I have always found extremely hysterical is this...Aliens is a movie that is not told in real time. That means that, while yes, we never witnessed something on screen, it does not mean that constitutes a plot hole. It mean that it was information that was unneeded to tell the story. Did we really have to see or hear them call Bishop? I sure didn't. As to Nordling's plot hole of someone left on the ship at first glance it seems to make common sense, however, if you stop to think, it truly does make sense. Who was the pilot of the Sulaco when the crew was in hypersleep? Then again, who piloted the Nostromo when they were in hypersleep? I think it was pretty much established that automation was even more prevalent than in today's society. If you must find a flaw, you can find one in ANY film if you must. I don't need to find one that badly. I don't need to see how Indiana Jones survived a submarine trip to the island. My mind can fill in the blanks. I don't question why Obi-Wan disappeared after being struck down by Vader. I can roll with it. In fact, my mind was able to fill in the blanks to find the genius of Alien 3 (yes 3). I have heard people say the worst plot hole being how the alien was on board the Sulaco. The queen had no time to lay eggs and Ripley would have found them, right? How do you know that is where the eggs came from? If I recall, when Ripley rescued Newt, the dropship WASN'T there. I know Bishop SAID he was circling around. But what if he was in fact getting eggs onto the dropship? What if he used the time to get the eggs onto the Sulaco? In other words, WHAT IF BISHOP WAS ALWAYS ACTING FOR THE COMPANY? It would explain fully why the human Bishop appeared at the end of 3. It is just a theory and one I welcome to have holes punched through. It will be a fun read. And just try to realize that just because everything isn't spelled out exactly how you like it does not mean that it is flawed or that it makes a movie, book, or TV show "suck".

  • June 17, 2012, 7:24 p.m. CST

    @halfscan

    by Chris

    The marines had encountered lame ass aliens all over the galaxy that didn't amount to much of a threat, never had they encountered bad ass xenomorphs that are nigh invincible.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:28 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong - Not so smart

    by Red_Right_Return

    Like opinions, we all have assholes, but you have two. I liked the movie. Everyone I went with liked the movie. I don't see anything particularly intelligent about your responses, in fact, I find them rather pedantic and predictable. Why don't you go see Madagascar again and let the adults finish our conversation.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:28 p.m. CST

    Cameron likes to write a liberal ideal with a conservative core...

    by seansarto

    In my opinion, this movie succeeds because the liberal ideal (strong female heroine) does not undermine that conservative core, (The military retains a nobility)...She surpasses it but does not destroy it out of a vainglory...Whereas, Avatar, (which borrows neavily from this film), cannot make such reconicilliations and loses it's appeal for me in that way...The hero of that film just seems endowed by his own want to have a second chance and betrays that core...A narcissist to some extent.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:29 p.m. CST

    dcut75

    by kwisatzhaderach

    "Prometheus makes aliens look like fucking Transformers. If you disagree that's okay, you're wrong." <p> Congratulations, you just posted the most idiotic thing ever on this site.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:32 p.m. CST

    @kwisatzhaderach

    by Red_Right_Return

    Not really, he's got a point. Aliens is an awesome action movie. Other than that, Prometheus stands above it as a piece of cinema.

  • First let me state that even with all the problems PROMETHEUS has, I still really enjoyed it. Saw it twice. But to say ALIENS is shallow or insipid or as moronic as TRANSFORMERS???!!!! Sorry dude but that really ** IS ** one of the dumbest things I have ever read on these boards. ALIENS is great! Not quite the masterwork of ALIEN but damn, it is one excellent film. dcut75, You show your lack of good taste by stating that, man. Serious.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:53 p.m. CST

    Johnnywrong

    by dcut75

    I guess Ash never told them they found the alien then? It was just a coincidence that the colonists happened upon and got overtaken by the aliens a week after Ripley was discovered drifting in space? The aliens built a nest that looked identical to a spaceship they didnt create and never even saw? You talk a lot of shit but your answers have no substance. Now go make me a sandwich, I own you bitch.

  • And yet, people want Scott to do another Blade Runner. Fine by me, I like Alien better than Blade Runner, he already messed up his better film, might as well go for broke and ruin his 2nd best.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:56 p.m. CST

    Oh come on Astronaut...

    by dcut75

    Gotta have some fun with the plebeians!

  • June 17, 2012, 7:57 p.m. CST

    Re: positivelyslime/ALIENS On A Budget

    by ArmageddonProductions

    positivelyslime - the xenomorphs in ALIENS and ALIEN were actually identical to begin with. What happened was, Cameron was visiting Stan Winston while Winston was putting together one of the xenomorph heads, and if you remember from ALIEN, the xenomorph's head consisted of a whitish, human skull-like "under-skull", then a smoky, translucent exo-skull you could kind of see through. Winston was busy painting the under-skull on one of them and Cameron decided that the xenomorph would look cooler without the translucent exo-skull, so he got rid of them. That's why they look that way.</p><p> People seem to forget that the original ALIEN was made for nine million (about one million more than STAR WARS had been made for the previous year). By 1986, movies like LETHAL WEAPON were being made for about forty million, which was considered about the same as today's standard $250 million budget. When Cameron approached Walter Hill, David Giler and Fox about maybe doing the sequel to ALIEN, despite the fact that THE TERMINATOR had made a lot of money, the only way he could convince them to let him do it is by claiming it would cost no more than twice the budget of the original film. Nobody wanted to invest in an R-rated sci-fi action film, especially one that promised to cost a vast fortune. Eventually, he actually had to parse the budget down to a measly fourteen million (two million less than Rob Zombie's HALLOWEEN) just to get the greenlight. By comparison, ALIEN 3 cost seventy million.

  • June 17, 2012, 7:58 p.m. CST

    @hank henshaw He didn't mess up a damn thing...

    by Red_Right_Return

    Prometheus is the 2nd best of the series, right behind Alien. I hope Scott does do another Bladerunner. You people here on AICN are trying to force an idea down our throats that this movie wasn't awesome. Look, go read some books and improve your education - then maybe you will understand things a little more.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:01 p.m. CST

    Load lifter vs. Queen fight is RETARDED!

    by darthwaz1

    I mean, wtf?! she suits up in that thing and wrestles the queen when she shoulda just ran and gotten a bazooka!! she's on a military ship for fuck's sake! ps- how in hell did the queen leave an egg onboard?

  • June 17, 2012, 8:01 p.m. CST

    irishraidersfan

    by Rupee88

    you are funny...are you that dumb or just scared to admit aother major plot hole in your favorite film. The queen had already ripped Bishop in half earlier...and then she is pulling on Ripley's leg with all her weight AND the weight of the loader on top of that. Go back into denial...you make me laugh.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:01 p.m. CST

    alien < bugs.

    by alice133

    klunk.

  • There are whole blogs that list about 150 plot holes and inconsistencies in it. It pissed a whole lot of people off with its stupidity. You will be waiting a LONG time for a sequel, at least one with a decent sized budget.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:06 p.m. CST

    @rupee88

    by Red_Right_Return

    No one I went with felt that way. Look, we are sorry people like you couldn't figure it out, but it really was a fantastic movie. Please list the 150 plot holes. Please list your favorite movie and I'll post my perceived problems with it. In other words, STFU, this site is split down the middle - quit trying to feed us this BS that it was a terrible movie.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:07 p.m. CST

    darthwaz1

    by Logan_1973

    She couldn't use a weapon against the Queen because the bloodspill would have eaten through the hull of the ship. Lesson learned from ALIEN. I'll give you the egg question, though. Stupidass ALIEN 3.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:13 p.m. CST

    darthwaz1

    by PCMODEMTCG

    Who said the queen laid the egg?

  • June 17, 2012, 8:14 p.m. CST

    rupee88

    by dcut75

    Im guessing the authors of those blogs don't mention Lovecraft, Oedipus, von Daniken, Nasca or The Bible. So make sure you quote them verbatim instead of forming your own opinion. Think what you're told to think.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:17 p.m. CST

    logan1973

    by dcut75

    What was her plan then if it wasnt to injure, maim and kill the queen? Choke her until she fell asleep, then tie her up?

  • June 17, 2012, 8:17 p.m. CST

    @dcut75 LOL so true..

    by Red_Right_Return

    Internet kiddies these days.. They believe everything they read. SEE THE FUCKING MOVIE. If you didn't understand it, SEE IT AGAIN. Or go see Magagascar again. Just don't try to BS those of us who actually loved it. Best movie since Avengers.

  • And I liked the movie!! But man what a HU-UUUUUUGE WASTE OF AN OPPORTUNITY. It could have been amazing on the level of the first two.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:23 p.m. CST

    dcut75

    by Logan_1973

    Well, she did grab her and swing her over the airlock. Not much of a reach to assume the airlock was her plan in the first place. Again...bloodspill would have meant bad things for the ship.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:27 p.m. CST

    red_right_return

    by dcut75

    Could you imagine if Blade Runner, or God help us, Kubrick's 2001 came out in the age of the internet?! These kids would be burning down movie theaters.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:28 p.m. CST

    @astronut

    by Red_Right_Return

    Who died and made you the fucking king? I don't see your proof. Personally, the people I went with, about 7, all thought it was brilliant.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:29 p.m. CST

    @dcut75

    by Red_Right_Return

    They just don't have any imagination any more. Getting Prometheus made must have been almost impossible.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:30 p.m. CST

    Reading some of the comments here....

    by Brett Peacock

    ... reminds me of Ripley's line in Aliens at the Corporate Inquest: "Excuse me? Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away?" Yes, It appears they have.... and I wasn't even away... just getting older, I guess. You have brains, folks, try using them. Otherwise all you are doing is w*nking in public! B

  • June 17, 2012, 8:31 p.m. CST

    logan_1973

    by dcut75

    I still hate that ending. I dont hate the movie, even though its obvious I have serious problems with it, but I really hate that ending.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:32 p.m. CST

    @astronut

    by Red_Right_Return

    That came off too strong. But my point is that the vocal minority here posts the same shit over and over and people believe it. They literally spam the same post again, in capital letters no less. I like to come to this site to read the reviews, and sometimes the talkbacks are interesting, but anyone coming here to actually DECIDE on a movie is coming to the wrong place. This site is full of whiney emo punk-ass wannabe film critics.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:35 p.m. CST

    Great piece

    by Justin

    Articles like this are why I love this website.

  • I'm torn, personally. Because Ridley got certain things right, the film looks beautiful and yes, I was entertained for the most part. Sadly, what he DIDN'T get right was the script and characterizations (other than Fassbender's David... he was very, very good). Admit it. The film could have been so much more.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:38 p.m. CST

    red_right_return

    by Rupee88

    google "Prometheus is terrible" or "Prometheus sucks" and you'll find many sites that list all the plot holes that attack anyone with an IQ over 105. Here is one to to get you started: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-x1YuvUQFJ0

  • June 17, 2012, 8:43 p.m. CST

    @astronut

    by Red_Right_Return

    I won't admit though. You could say that about any movie. Even Avengers, which is damn near the perfect comic book movie made so far, has flaws. What more could we expect? Prometheus was better than Avatar - in my opinion. Why bite the hand that just fed me? In this age of shit we are getting as movies, something like Prometheus should be given a crown. I could write you a list of a hundred science fiction books I've read in my life that would make a better movie than Prometheus, but they will never be made. I'm not lowering my expectations, just realizing that a movie like this doesn't come often. What entertains our youth now? Twinkly vampires. Teen spoof movies. Sequels. Remakes. I'll take 1 movie like Prometheus right up the ass before I go see Twilight, another Scary Movie, or Saw 60.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:44 p.m. CST

    @rupee88

    by Red_Right_Return

    Unfortunately, I don't read sites by angry pessimists. If I paid attention to idiots like you, I wouldn't have seen Prometheus to begin with.. TODAY. I ignored that shit, saw it today, and loved it.

  • That doesn't mean you are "wrong" if you liked it. Some people love Adam Sander's "Jack and Jill" too...it just comes down to personal taste and IQ level. And do people who dislike Jack and Jill just feel that way because they "didn't understand it"? No .... it's because it is shit... and so is Prometheus. Put a retard in front of any movie and they will love it...Jack and Jill and Prometheus included. And throw in Attack of the Clones while you are at it.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:46 p.m. CST

    Because they are posted over and over by jerks like you...

    by Red_Right_Return

    That want to convince everyone else it sucked. But it didn't.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:47 p.m. CST

    red_right_return

    by Rupee88

    So anyone who doesn't like the same movie you do is a "pessimist"? Very interesting how your brain works...or fails to. Must be very difficult getting through this world so impaired.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:49 p.m. CST

    @rupee88 So if someone likes a movie they are stupid?

    by Red_Right_Return

    Yeah, you convinced me. You are the brainchild of the family...

  • June 17, 2012, 8:50 p.m. CST

    @rupee You sound like a broken record..

    by Red_Right_Return

    Hypocrite. You say if people liked the movie we are stupid. Then you whine like the little emo bitch you are about me saying your a pessimist. Yup.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:54 p.m. CST

    PROMETHEUS didn't suck...

    by Logan_1973

    But it wasn't great either.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:57 p.m. CST

    Maybe my favorite movie ever

    by HamburgerEarmuffs

    No one can ratchet up the action like Cameron in his prime.

  • June 17, 2012, 8:58 p.m. CST

    Astronut and Rupee

    by dcut75

    Do you really think these people represent some sort of majority? These are the same people that led a movie studio to believe Snakes on a Plane was going to be the biggest blockbuster in history. You say 150 blogs? Thats literally 150 people out of millions that felt so offended that they had to lash out with these defense mechanism rants to prop up their own misguided interprtations. Now a few people who also feel a little cornered by the fact they didn't pick up on the film's many subtle allusions are just quoting these blogs when asked why they didn't like it. I'll tell what I'm finding after a little prodding; All of the people I know that didn't like it weren't bothered by the 'plot holes.' They were upset with the premise because of their religious beliefs, but they wont come out and say that because they feel silly in doing so. "I dont know what the balck was" and "I don't know why the Engineers wanted kill Earth" are not plot holes!

  • June 17, 2012, 9:01 p.m. CST

    black stuff, not balck

    by dcut75

  • June 17, 2012, 9:05 p.m. CST

    I love when people THINK they are smarter than everyone else...

    by Red_Right_Return

    You know who I'm talking about. You don't have to prove it to anyone, Rupee88. If you are so smart, go see the movie again and try to actually understand it this time. I agree with dcut75. These people on the blogs or here on AICN are not representative of the average movie-going public. What I see is a bunch of bitter ass alien fans who wanted this movie to be something it wasn't. Then you have people who walked out clueless as to the movie's message. I mean seriously, you should be on here complaining that Madagascar made more money than Prometheus did. That movie is crap by comparison, no matter what you think. The problem isn't Prometheus, its you.

  • it puked the resin or "royal jelly"that made that constructed the hive. Would have been awesome to see one, I have been searching for the concept art, but I don't think it exists. The popular theory is that the cylindrical columns along both sides of the spinal area of their exoskeletons spray the material..

  • June 17, 2012, 9:12 p.m. CST

    pcmodemtcg

    by DrMorbius

    Nice post, well stated good sir.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:19 p.m. CST

    Now James Cameron can call all the shots, much like George Lucas...

    by Ace of Wands

    ... but he would do well to remember that setting up limitations for yourself as a filmmaker can be just as beneficial to the end product as an unfettered vision unlimited by budget or technology. That's right, Nordling, you give your solid advice, whetted on the stone of a two bit internet site, to one of the most creative filmmakers of all time; a director who has consistently pushed the boundaries of what can be done with cinema. Consistently and constantly, from Terminator right up to date with Avatar. While you're checking your Thesuarus to try and bolster your inanities, Cameron is creating stuff that you can only comment on, and poorly at that. But I'm sure, should he read your pearls of wisdom, that Cameron will heed what you say and try to be more creative. Wanker.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:21 p.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...no, the problem IS Prometheus. And people like you who are willing to accept second-rate material. You people lap up all the shit culture that there is to lap up making it harder for the good stuff to ever see the light of day. Cheers!

  • June 17, 2012, 9:24 p.m. CST

    -halfscan- I think "bug hunt" can be applied to many military operations and

    by the Green Gargantua

    I always thought of "Arcturian poontang" as some sort of sex androids that are apparently a lot of fun on Arcturus which would be a planet chock full of robot brothels.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:24 p.m. CST

    an example...

    by dcut75

    The most derided scene in the film. The biologist touching the snake. Do you really think there is no symbolism there? Ridley and Damon were sitting around, going over the script and couldn't figure out a better way to do this scene? It takes 5 seconds to come with "Hey, instead of him touching the snake, how bout it leaps out of the muck and latches onto his arm by surprise! It would make a hell of a jump scare." The reason is that everything in the scene has meaning, just like the rest of the movie. Somewhere in some old book or maybe in the bible, there is something that this scene references. I honestly havent figured it out yet, but I know it's out there. Just like the blink-and-you-miss-it Nasca lines that comprise the runway on the planet. Or David's puzzling (at that point in the movie) line about everyone wanting to see their parents die. It's out there man! Stop locking yourselves outside of the movie. Jump in, it's pretty fucking awesome!

  • June 17, 2012, 9:25 p.m. CST

    johnnywrong

    by dcut75

    How did you feel about The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford?

  • June 17, 2012, 9:27 p.m. CST

    DCUT75...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...you own me? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You can't even comprehend the timeline in a simple Hollywood movie. You're a fucking full-blown retard. Fucking mouth-breather.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:31 p.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...why exactly AREyou so obsessed with Madagascar? Does seem about your level, mind you.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:32 p.m. CST

    @JohnnyWrong

    by Red_Right_Return

    Funny, but I think you have more to do with these bad movies than someone like me. What was the last movie you wasted your money on? I actually went to see it, instead of Madagascar or some other crap movie. I'm sorry you have to make yourself look smart to bash this movie, but your opinion of Prometheus leaves me little choice but to think your opinion isn't worth merit to begin with. What movie do you actually find good?

  • June 17, 2012, 9:33 p.m. CST

    @JohnnyWrong

    by Red_Right_Return

    It could be because idiots like you went to see it instead of Prometheus.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:33 p.m. CST

    DCUT75...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ..."Somewhere in some old book or maybe in the bible, there is something that this scene references. I honestly havent figured it out yet, but I know it's out there." You're not even able to offer an explanation, merely state that "there must be one...somewhere." Blind leading the blind. You, sir, are an absolute moron with an IQ in single figures.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:34 p.m. CST

    @Johnnywong Here we go again..

    by Red_Right_Return

    Another smarter than everyone else guy. Yeah sure. Come back when you get another excuse for an argument. Bottom line - you don't like it, we do. So shut it already.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:36 p.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...I think it's YOU who went to see it, son. Is it me who keeps bringing it up again and again? No. It's you. It's your level of cinema. You and idiots like you think you've stumbled upon the next 2001 with Prometheus. I, and most of the other people who've seen it, know that it's just a pretentious failure. Go play in traffic, you thinking-impaired waste of genetic material.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:38 p.m. CST

    @JohnnyWONG

    by Red_Right_Return

    You pretentious little emo punk. You can't even say what your level of cinema is! I love idiots like you who resort to "I'm smarter than you therefor I'm right." Sorry, but maybe you should think up some new material right after you go fuck yourself with your gigantic ego.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:39 p.m. CST

    "...don’t rely overly on CGI to realize their vision"

    by TopHat

    You saw AVATAR, right? You've heard about the sequels to AVATAR, right? You honestly believe Cameron is ever going back to mostly practical effects? He's done with practical. Only 3-D, green-screen now. Game over, man. Game over.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:39 p.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...if I told you my favourite movies, you'd have to disappear for a while to IMDB to look them up before coming back and pretending to have seen and disliked them. So what's the point? Back under your bridge, troll.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:41 p.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...emo? Your insults don't even make sense.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:41 p.m. CST

    @knowthyself

    by ApneicMonkey

    No, James Cameron created an action movie sequel to a horror movie. Aliens being an action film does not in any way detract from the original Alien being a horror film - it still exists as a horror film and always will. More sequels should be so original in the thinking that goes into their creation and development.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:41 p.m. CST

    Yes Johnnyboy, I own you

    by dcut75

    you have yet to form one concise, coherent idea or opinion. I have tried to engage you in serious debate and silly, childish insults are all you have brought to the table along with the poorly worded critiques that you read elsewhere and stole to bolster your what you think is your own mindset. You obviously dont have a single fully formed thought about Prometheus, Aliens or Alien and you have not properly answered one question that was posed to you. Yet, the first thing you did was attack my grammar. (I think I forgot an apostrophe a sentence or two ago, make sure you point it out) If this was debate class, you recieved an F two hours ago. So yes, I own you. Now go get my fucking sandwich, boy.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:41 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by Red_Right_Return

    I'm not going anywhere, brainchild. let's see your genius at work. Tell us, or stop acting like the next Einstein.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:42 p.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...I'm not acting like anything. I'm pretty sure 99% of people on this site are smarter than you. Drooling spastic.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:43 p.m. CST

    @dcut75 I was thinking the same thing...

    by Red_Right_Return

    And yet Johnnydong calls ME the troll. He didn't even SEE the movie.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:44 p.m. CST

    DCUT75...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...you don't own a damn thing. You made incorrect statements about a movie that you patently don't understand, I pointed this out, and that's that. Sad life you must have if you get your thrills trying to "own" people on chat boards.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:45 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by Red_Right_Return

    Exactly as I thought. You have NO movies to add. You are a coward. Come back when you have something to add other than insults. Maybe go see the actual movie like a big boy instead of reading some stupid blog?

  • June 17, 2012, 9:45 p.m. CST

    DIDN'T SEE WHAT MOVIE?...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...Prometheus? Where the fuck have you pulled that little factoid from? Ah yes, your ass. Like everything else. You can't even troll well.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:47 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by Red_Right_Return

    Don't deny it though? Where's that list of movies? I think its pretty clear everyone here knows you are the troll.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:48 p.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ..."Maybe go see the actual movie like a big boy instead of reading some stupid blog?" Blog? Where did you come up with blog from? Are you high? And son, I've seen more movies than you've had hot dinners.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:49 p.m. CST

    johnnyboy

    by dcut75

    I must have missed all those factual errors you pointed out, could you list them again?

  • June 17, 2012, 9:49 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by Red_Right_Return

    Still no actual answers. Only 12 year-old punks come back with "son." Have you even read a science fiction book before? Do you even read? Do you know how?

  • June 17, 2012, 9:50 p.m. CST

    Fuck, people, liking or disliking a movie doesn't make you smart

    by Adelai Niska

    Also, most critics at the time said that ALIEN was a stupid, manipulative corporate monster that was the death knell for movies. They said the characters were hollow and the scares cheap. They also hated Blade Runner, saying it was boring, empty-headed, and pointless. Point is, all precedent suggests that the immediate reaction to Ridley Scott Sci-Fi is to reject it, hate it outright, and decry it as full of holes, only to see popular opinion turn about five years later and hail it as genius. Not saying that will happen for PROMETHEUS, just saying that maybe everybody needs to get some distance, come back to it in a few years, and stop calling each other dumber-than-thou in the meanwhile.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:51 p.m. CST

    TROLLING 101...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...so you're losing an argument about a shitty movie you love. Why not ask the other side for a movie they love so you can instantly pretend to have seen it, even though you most likely haven't, and then start slagging it off? Yes...that'll show 'em who's boss! Ha ha! Fucking pathetic technique you got there. I bet you're seeing your monitor right now through a film of tears as your frustration mounts...

  • June 17, 2012, 9:52 p.m. CST

    We're on an express elevator to hell. Going down!

    by adeceasedfan

    Prometheus = State of the Art. Aliens = State of the Bad Ass Art.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:53 p.m. CST

    @adelai niska

    by Red_Right_Return

    Exactly. I would like to know Johnnywong's basis for being such a science fiction genius. Johnny, what is your favorite science fiction? Don't say Ender's Game - even my daughter has read that for school.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:54 p.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...as you would have observed if YOU could read properly, I mentioned above my desire for a Hyperion movie, so you should already know I read high-level sci-fi. Unlike you. You're mean, but dumb. I'm twice as mean and smart. You lose...every time.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:55 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by Red_Right_Return

    LOL you have't made a point to lose to yet. Come back when you have some facts or basis for that huge brain you supposedly have. I've seen any movie you have trust me on that.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:56 p.m. CST

    dcut75 and "150 blogs"

    by Rupee88

    your level of reading comprehension speaks volumes about your general intellect

  • June 17, 2012, 9:56 p.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ..."I've seen any movie you have trust me on that." No. You haven't. Good night.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:58 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by Red_Right_Return

    You are twice the loser, and not smart. Hyperion is a great book, but is that all you got? Ever read any AE Van Vogt? Robert A. Heinlein? Heard of SLAN? What about something newer from Peter F. Hamilton? Seriously? You are mean? You are a pussy cat.

  • June 17, 2012, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Oh Johnny...

    by dcut75

    It's weird. Even though Im sitting here laughing at you, its not fun anymore. I look forward to the day in the near future when when people like you stop coming to Alien-Prometheus talk backs so people with serious opinions can have a spirited debate about the series. Oh, by the way. How was Rock of Ages? Still waiting for my sandwich, ham and cheese this time sally

  • June 17, 2012, 10 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by Red_Right_Return

    Thanks for the entertainment. Come back with your movie list and prove to us your godliness. LOL.

  • June 17, 2012, 10:02 p.m. CST

    johnnywrong

    by WeylandYutani

    It seems pretty clear that DCUT75 is an idiot. This is especially evident when he compares Aliens as equal in quality to Transformers. He also incorrectly points out 'flaws' in Aliens like how the hive at the human colony looks the same as the space jockey ship. It doesn't. Only the area where the eggs were kept on the derelict was similar, the space jockey control room, while organic looking was more mechanical that biological looking while both alien nests/hives are more biological in appearance. But, he is correct about two plot points: 1. Somehow the Company did know that there was something of interest on LV426 before the Nostomo arrived in orbit... Perhaps they did not know exactly what was there, but they knew something was there. Perhaps there was a previous team that investigated and perished or perhaps an unmanned probe detected the beacon. Whatever the case, the Company heard and deciphered the beacon sometime prior to the Nostromo's voyage. Dallas tells Ripley that two weeks before the Nostromo departed, their regular science officer was replaced with Ash. In that conversation Ripley even admits that she thinks Ash is untrustworthy and implies that Ash has alterior motives. We find out later her intuition is correct and that Special Order 937 was preplanned and preprogrammed into the android and MUTHUR to enact the Company's plan of retrieving and protecting the alien life form on the return trip. They then re-routed the Nostromo to the area where the alien signal was coming from, knowing that the Nostromo would pick up the signal and, according to Company regulations, would be required to respond to it. Ash is there to make sure that the mission was carried out. 2. Burke did send a message to the colony to check the veracity of Ripley's story. This was explicitly stated by the Director of Operations at the terraforming facility in the extended cut of Aliens, but both cuts have exposition where Ripley confronts Burke after discovering his orders. She even reads part of his request and exclaims "...signed: Burke, Carter J!" Ripley then goes onto say "You sent them [the colonists]." Here is an excerpt for Wikipedia, admittedly not the best source: "Ripley discovers that it was Burke who ordered the colonists to investigate the derelict spaceship where the Nostromo crew first encountered the Alien eggs, and that he hopes to return Alien specimens to the company laboratories where he can profit from their use as biological weapons. She threatens to expose him, but Bishop soon informs the group of a greater threat: the damaged processing station has become unstable and will soon detonate with the force of a thermonuclear weapon." Shit, that was longer than expected. Sorry dude. 

  • June 17, 2012, 10:03 p.m. CST

    @dcut75

    by Red_Right_Return

    I'm waiting on another insult to your intelligence. I've yet to see this fantastic list of movies he claims to love. I'll be happy to list what I think is good. His discussion basically consists of "I'm smarter than you" over and over.

  • June 17, 2012, 10:05 p.m. CST

    Most fun I ever had watching a movie in a theater, EVER.

    by Seven_of_Borgnine

    Saw it opening day during a sparsely attended afternoon showing, and it just plain blew my head off. Pulse-pounding suspense. Ripley is so utterly believable in this film that the gender role issues this movie tackled simply never crossed my mind until long afterwards. Had the pleasure recently of lending my DVD to a younger dude who had never seen it, and he loved it. The picture has aged gracefully to say the least.

  • June 17, 2012, 10:10 p.m. CST

    weylandyutani

    by dcut75

    Well you called me an idiot, but then went on to agree with me for the most part so... uh, thanks?

  • June 17, 2012, 10:11 p.m. CST

    Colonial Marines would have raped cry baby Lambert

    by Obi Wanna Cannoli

    Her character is one thing that disturbed me about Alien. In traditional horror movie fashion you always have some blubbering female who cries before she is butchered. Maybe she was there to offset and highlight Sigourney's role. Alien is a great horror movie that was mind blowing the first time I saw it but loses some of the magic after repeat viewings. Much like any horror movie. The action in Aliens is intense and has always kept me interested in rewatching it. Any time it is on cable I sit down and watch it. Just my humble opinion. Arguing about which one is better is kinda stupid since they are different movies.

  • June 17, 2012, 10:20 p.m. CST

    Very well written.

    by MisterManReturns

    What's your academic background, Nordling? I was a grad student of Critical Film Studies at USC.

  • June 17, 2012, 10:21 p.m. CST

    obiwanna

    by WeylandYutani

    "Colonial Marines would have raped cry baby Lambert." That statement is so very wrong... And so very funny. Ahhh geek humour.

  • June 17, 2012, 10:24 p.m. CST

    RENDEZVOUS WITH RAMA

    by Autodidact

    Imagine if Ridley had just made that instead.

  • June 17, 2012, 10:27 p.m. CST

    Any minute now ...

    by DrMorbius

    we're gonna have the ole' ... *I know you are, buy what am I?*

  • June 17, 2012, 10:27 p.m. CST

    one more for johnnboy...

    by dcut75

    regarding my post about the biologist and the snake. Pointing out that I don't have an explanation is kind of redundant, more so when you consider that was the whole point of the fucking post. I wrote it to say I didn't have an explanation you idiot, but that the great thing about Prometheus is that I got so much out of the rest of it that I know one day I'll discover the meaning of that scene also. Just like the washing of the creator's feet. Just like the old ones awaking from their slumber to destroy humanity. Just like the events of the film taking place on Christmas. Just like Shaw's father dying from ebola, etc. All this has meaning. Just as I'm sure the tresspassers in the temple befriending a snake (asp?) has meaning. Good Lord, man. Turn that brain on for a little while.

  • June 17, 2012, 10:29 p.m. CST

    Agreed autodidact

    by WeylandYutani

    Someone should make Rama into a feature. What happened to the Fincher/Freeman adaptation?

  • June 17, 2012, 10:30 p.m. CST

    but ... sheesh!

    by DrMorbius

  • June 17, 2012, 10:33 p.m. CST

    Arcturian hospitality

    by Party_Animal_IV

    Neither "Arcturian poontang" or "bug hunt" are references to extraterrestrials. The Arcturian colonists were just known for being especially welcoming to military personnel. "Bug Hunt" is military slang, though the intended irony has been often misconstrued. Also anyone asserting that Prometheus is filled with plot holes or bad writing would be much better served watching some Adam Sandler-in-drag toilet jokes movie than a Scott film. Or stop whacking off to their precious AVENGERS long enough to acknowledge the plot holes, stupid character actions, and bad writing in that film. None of which are present in Prometheus.

  • June 17, 2012, 10:34 p.m. CST

    saw prometheus for third time visuals just kill me in 3d

    by skiff

    I think the art work in this film out does ep 12 or3 of starwars. God I hope there is a sequel.

  • The only thing that I didn’t like about ALIENS was these casual references to other alien species. I much prefer to think of the encounter with the derelict in the first movie as the first contact with alien life forms (or I guess the events of Prometheus if you want to consider that as canon). From now on, I will adopt your explanation. Thanks!

  • Thank god you guys don't make movies.

  • Agreed, that is a classically great practical effect. I've long admired the whole sequence, both in concept and execution. Little things, like the way Ripley covers Newt's eyes and the reassuring way Bishop says they're all right as they clear the blast wave. Aliens has one of the very best examples ever of a screenplay 'ticking clock' with the build-up to that nuclear explosion. And it's all very carefully interwoven via character and story... for example, the way that it's Ripley who recognizes that firing weapons could accidentally blow it up... and then when it all goes south, she's the one who ratchets it up with 'I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.'... and then ironically, the firing of the weapons that shouldn't have happened to begin with is the thing that's going to cause it to blow anyway (and in 4 hours! when not long before that they were worried about how to survive for 17 days)... and then it's Ripley who decides to go back in to the about-to-blow facility to get Newt. A really really good, carefully structured and thought out action screenplay. I greatly admire it, and the whole movie. And the fact that EVERY DOLLAR of their budget is up on the screen.

  • June 17, 2012, 11:03 p.m. CST

    At least...

    by Red_Right_Return

    The guy spouting all the hyperbole gave up. Would still love to see his list of movies that are so high brow.

  • June 17, 2012, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Or maybe it was the crash of the dropship

    by Brian Hopper

    with Ferro and Spunkmeyer that caused the atmo processor station to start failing, I don't remember. Either way, great script and movie.

  • June 17, 2012, 11:15 p.m. CST

    Rupee88, gotta say I'm disappointed in your attitude in here

    by D.Vader

  • June 17, 2012, 11:16 p.m. CST

    Aliens was a really fun moviegoing experience when it came out

    by Rupee88

    The Aliens themselves were still scary and it was just a crazy action ride. Even at the time, I knew that Alien was far, far superior but time has just proven this even more. But Cameron's Terminator 2 is maybe even better than the first Alien, so not against his style of moviemaking at all. Ridley Scott has done a lot of shitty movies and Alien and Blade Runner were 100 years ago. I hope they do make a Prometheus sequel because the budget will be SLASHED and it will be even shittier than the first one. And I also hope he makes the Blade Runner sequel because I've learned my lesson and will stay away from that one and enjoy seeing everyone so disappointed in it, when it will be obvious after this travesty that is Prometheus. This movie really shows how Hollywood is run too as Damon Lindenoff (or whatever his name is) gets gig after gig but the due has absolutely no talent. It's really just about being friends with the right people out there with a few exceptions. The fucktards who wrote Transformers 2 and the new Spider-Man film are other shining examples.

  • June 17, 2012, 11:22 p.m. CST

    The thing about Prometheus

    by Brazo

    Ok so i've been reading this talkback for a while and the thing that strikes me is the way people who love Prometheus come across as "It's so good, I won't fall to your level and try to explain it to you..." and the ones who don't only nitpick on the plot holes. The thing is, I get the religious undertone of the movie. The whole symbology and themes that are treated seems to be done so with nothing but thought and passion. There is more to this movie than meets the eye. I get that and respect it. This film should probably best be understood as more of a parable than an actual North american-style story with relatable characters. However, one of the main thematic IS science versus religion. In that way, I have a hard time seeing people who I'm supposed to believe are scientists do very questionable and illogical things in the context of their day-to-day responsibilities. I won't try to list every detail as to support this latest affirmation (a lot of websites have probably done so far better than i could here) but it stands to reason that a director with the vision of Ridley Scott shouldn't have overlooked such details. A movie is a package-deal. I got great cinematography, good enough performances (great in the case of Fassbender) and deep underlying thematic treatments but the surface-level stuff that should help me buy into the whole thing and cement my interest in this particular universe and story is weak and all over the place. Also, I get that everything shouldn't be spelled out blatantly and that a little subtlety should always be standard practice in these kinds of movies but more hints certainly could have helped. Just my two cents.

  • June 17, 2012, 11:41 p.m. CST

    huh?

    by Chairman_Kaga

    "... in the first film the alien seems almost indestructible, one of Lovecraft’s Elder Gods brought to terrifying life ..." You must mean "Lovecraftian" ie including every two bit hack that followed in Lovecraft's footsteps and played in his sandbox.

  • June 17, 2012, 11:46 p.m. CST

    NO! NO! NO! NO!

    by Queefer Sutherland

    I agreed with everything you said, Nordling. There's absolutely no reason for me to be a prick, so I'll move along and bring out Mr. Hyde somewhere else.

  • June 17, 2012, 11:46 p.m. CST

    One of the most quotable movies ever

    by PedroM

  • June 17, 2012, 11:48 p.m. CST

    NORDLING, this is a great piece!

    by ufoclub1977

    You worded it really insightfully in comparing the impression of the creature in the first one to the creatures in the second one.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:15 a.m. CST

    @fuckinamateurman

    by Red_Right_Return

    While I understand what Brazo said, and agree with some of it, I don't completely agree. We all have differing levels of "suspension of belief." Am I supposed to believe Ripley can hold off an Alien horde in Aliens, pretty much on her own, whereas in Alien she barely survived one Alien? If I looked at it that way, it would ruin the whole movie. It seems to me that these days we have less tolerance when it comes to suspension of belief. Of course scientists aren't going to do some of the things they did in Prometheus, but at the same time, these points are weak in the overall enjoyment of the movie and what story it is trying to tell. I could sit here and come up with at least 10 examples in every scifi/fantasy movie I have seen. I don't think the plot holes are bad enough to ruin my enjoyment of the movie, and trust me, I have my movies where I have a hard time accepting things. No matter which side you sit on the Prometheus debate, I think it is plain wrong to say this is a terrible movie and I feel that more people should have gone to see it. In fact, I believe, if it had been released in the U.S. before elsewhere, we would have seen a higher domestic gross, but since the internet critics decided to hate the movie, which I think is an undue amount, the movie didn't do as well as it should have. Do I think it is the best scifi movie ever? Hell no. I've can think of quite a few movies I would consider better in that genre. It pisses me off a sequel to a kids movie does better to be honest.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:23 a.m. CST

    ALIENS was nothing more than propaganda for the USA war machine.

    by Pixelsmack

    And that's all.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:31 a.m. CST

    Since we are pointing at Prometheus plot holes..

    by Red_Right_Return

    Let's talk about Aliens a bit. This is why this seems silly to me to begin with. Its a movie, you are meant to enjoy it, not poke holes in it. 1. As an ex-soldier myself, and working current with special ops soldiers, I know for a fact they would not have done things the way they did in Aliens. 2. Why not send remote devices in to check the site before entering? They have the tech. 3. Why can Ripley handle groups of aliens, but a whole special ops/combat experienced team gets taken down by them (sorry her experience from Alien is a weak explanation). 4. Why didn't Bishop know the queen was on board when he also has motion sensing technology at his disposal. 5. Why would the queen be smart enough to get off the planet in the ship but suddenly reveal herself out of rage at Ripley? 6. Why can the queen rip Bishop in half and toss him aside like a monkey, but when fighting Ripley in the mech it can't even aim at the soft parts? 7. Why would The Company bother sending Ripley when she has already proven so costly to them to begin with? 8. Since the Company knows of the aliens existence, why would they be stupid enough to send some newbie executive out to the planet to collect more? Obviously they know how dangerous it is? 9. Why wouldn't they have their own security team for this since the Company is so powerful? If I thought about these things after seeing Aliens it wouldn't have been fun. These things don't matter to me. The movie is always going to be one of my all-time favorites.

  • Lord knows AICN hasn't been giving Prometheus proper coverage and ample opportunity to talk about that film this past week and a half. I mean, maybe they could throw you all a bone and start up a new Prometheus talkback? http://www.aintitcool.com/node/56442

  • June 18, 2012, 12:41 a.m. CST

    Because its a talkback

    by Red_Right_Return

    If people want to talk about it they will?

  • Again, why don't you "suspend disbelief" and go enjoy "Jack and Jill"...or if you want to keep to sci-fi, stop poking plot holes in "Battlefield Earth" and just enjoy it! Find a movie rated 1.0 on imdb and allow yourself to enjoy it because that's what is meant for. red_right, the way you think is fascinating...talk about convoluted desperate "logic". And yeah, you did point out some of the plot holes in Aliens than makes it less enjoyable than a better movie with many less plot holes.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:48 a.m. CST

    brazo

    by Rupee88

    Prometheus didn't suck because it was too "symbolic". It sucked because all the scientists took their fucking helmets off and about 20 other scenes like this that had no logic in the context of the film and the world it was trying to present. Again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-x1YuvUQFJ0 And the whole issue of "nitpicking" is absurd. So anyone who dislikes the Star Wars prequels is "nitpicking" when they state what they didn't like about them. A film having a shit script is not a nitpick. I'm trying to explain the obvious but like trying to explain physics to a dumb dog. It's great that you liked it..that doesn't make you stupid, but not understanding why most people didn't does make you stupid.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:50 a.m. CST

    I must say I love these things

    by Anthony Torchia

    first the article, good stuff Nordling, I agree with most all of it :-) second, every time I read your name I think of Nerdlinger, from the Simpsons. I can't help it, sorry. third, this talkback is great, from the inexplicable hate to the Prometheus obsession, just a classic AICN talkback, a world unto itself

  • June 18, 2012, 12:50 a.m. CST

    @Rupee88

    by Red_Right_Return

    Why do you like Jack and Jill so much? I've never even heard of it... Your examples are all bullshit in comparison to Prometheus. Battlefield Earth? Seriously? Your logic just isn't there at all. The thing that sits in your craw is that I'm right. Next time you try to be smart, try to actually use logic yourself - or at least some equivalent examples. What kind of science fiction experience do you have anyway?

  • June 18, 2012, 12:54 a.m. CST

    Examples of a good movie or script from Rupee88..

    by Red_Right_Return

    Why don't you tell us? I can't see anything worse in Prometheus than I've seen in countless other popular movies. It's simple. YOU don't like it. I do. Your reasons don't fucking matter.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:56 a.m. CST

    How about this Rupee88

    by Red_Right_Return

    You're stupid for NOT liking it for the reasons I liked it. See what I did there?

  • June 18, 2012, 12:56 a.m. CST

    red_right_return

    by Rupee88

    " I can't see anything worse in Prometheus than I've seen in countless other popular movies" lol Yes I agree that Prometheus is not worse than Transformers 2 or many other "popular movies". That doesn't have anything to do with the discussion we are having though. Again you totally miss the point.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:57 a.m. CST

    What kind of science fiction experience do you have anyway?

    by Rupee88

    lol

  • June 18, 2012, 12:57 a.m. CST

    I get your point...

    by Red_Right_Return

    Your reasons for hating it are better than my reasons for liking it.. LOL.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:58 a.m. CST

    @rupee88 well?

    by Red_Right_Return

    Is that all? Do you read?

  • June 18, 2012, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Another track: Why is Aliens better than Prometheus?

    by Red_Right_Return

  • June 18, 2012, 1 a.m. CST

    I actually find this movie to be a hunk of cheese

    by gaygoonie

    I love SW and the effects, but the crew and their faux military dialogue sort of bugs.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:05 a.m. CST

    @gaygoonie

    by Red_Right_Return

    I love the movie, but I don't find the script to be anything special. I guess its more believable that a single civilian non-combat trained female can destroy a hive of aliens but a couple scientists can't take their helmets off after they realize there is atmosphere in the building.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:09 a.m. CST

    @orionsangels

    by Red_Right_Return

    They go from bad to awful. :( I agree.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:27 a.m. CST

    Hmm there seems to be a lack of understanding in this talkback

    by Brian Hopper

    and on AICN generally about what a 'plot hole' is. (For that matter, on what a 'plot' is.) The classic example in recent years is in Abrams' Shit Trek, when 90210Kirk is dropped onto the Ice Planet of Amazing Coincidences and is chased by a giant red facehugger into a cave where (this still makes me laugh) Spock is. There is no reason -- none -- for this to happen, except for one: it HAD to happen for the story to continue, so the lazy 'screenwriters' just... made it happen. This = plot hole. By contrast, the fact there was no human crew left on the Sulaco is NOT a plot hole. Yes, it had to happen for the story (to create a situation in which everyone is stranded). But the difference is, it's EXPLAINABLE. As @pcmodemtcg points out above, 'Who was the pilot of the Sulaco when the crew was in hypersleep? ... I think it was pretty much established that automation was even more prevalent than in today's society.' I'll go a step further: when Ripley says they'll just have to get the other dropship from the Sulaco, and Hudson points out they can't because they can't communicate with the Sulaco ('the transmitter was on the APC, it's wasted') etc etc, and then they come up with the idea of Bishop aligning the dish and so forth... The explanation is implicit: They obviously all see that it's possible (and would always have been possible) to communicate with the Sulaco and remote pilot the other dropship to the planet if ever necessary. If it's possible, then no one NEEDED to stay on the ship anyway, right? That's good writing. It's good PLOTTING. The writers clearly thought about the issue being discussed in this talkback and realized there had to be an explanation. And then (like good writers do) they didn't hammer you over the head with it... they let it be implicitly revealed by the interaction of the characters in this scene. NOT a plot hole. Big difference between that and the Ice Planet of Amazing Coincidences in Shit Trek.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:28 a.m. CST

    When Aliens came out Scott publicly admitted that he did not like it

    by kabookieslap

    He did not like the military aspect and the warring. But I think over time he has appreciated it to be the classic we all fell in love with. But at the time of it's release, Scott said he had a different sequel in mind.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:42 a.m. CST

    @andromedus

    by Red_Right_Return

    Right. Ripley used the weapons... But the squad of experienced soldiers bot wiped out.. You see the problem?

  • June 18, 2012, 1:44 a.m. CST

    bot *got

    by Red_Right_Return

    corrected

  • June 18, 2012, 1:49 a.m. CST

    Aliens is just as good as Alien.

    by Yelsaeb

    Cameron is a pro at doing sequels.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:52 a.m. CST

    @dcut75: how the colonists found the Derelict ship

    by Volllllume3

    Did you even watch the movie? Burke had a team of scavengers check out the location based on the coordinates he got from Ripley. He wanted to make money, so it makes PERFECT FUCKING SENSE that he wouldn't tell the company what he was doing. In Alien, the company sent the Nostromo to LV-426 to check out a signal from unknown origin. Not an alien spacecraft. Ash was in contact with certain individuals from the company but it's seems pretty logical to me that when the Nostromo never returns they covered it up. I never considered the company to be an entire entity but instead comprising of shady individuals who will do everything to make a quick buck. Oh yeah: Aliens > Alien > dogshit > Prometheus

  • that is what I have been telling myself for years.

  • June 18, 2012, 2:24 a.m. CST

    ...And then there was "Starship Troopers"

    by seansarto

  • June 18, 2012, 2:27 a.m. CST

    Actions films...

    by SunTzu77

    I've always felt "Aliens" and "The Road Warrior" were perfect action films. I really wish Cameron made more films. I really hope George Miller can deliver with "Fury Road." The project has been greenlit and Theron has shaved her head. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/charlize-theron-shaved-head-bald_n_1589094.html

  • Next?

  • June 18, 2012, 2:49 a.m. CST

    this is the best piece of art ever created in history

    by WINONA_RYDERS_PUSSY_JUICE

  • June 18, 2012, 3:23 a.m. CST

    Cameron should come back and save this franchise.

    by Volllllume3

    Prometheus 2 aka Paradise or whatever the fuck it will be called will stand a chance then.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:36 a.m. CST

    Bill Paxton

    by KGersen

    one of the greatest lines ever, in the drop-ship: "Check it out! I am the ultimate bad-ass! State of the bad-ass art! You do not want to fuck with me. Check it out! Hey, Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of ultimate bad-asses will protect you! Check it out. Independently targeting particle-beam phalanx. WHAP! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs. We got sonic, electronic ball breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, we got sharp sticks." also anyone who thinks Prometheus is a film that doesn't major issues dragging people out of believing in the film is a moron. End of story.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:56 a.m. CST

    Alien 10/10. Aliens 10/10. Two sides of the same shiny coin.

    by Bradly Durant

  • June 18, 2012, 4:05 a.m. CST

    I had a perfect orgasm once

    by Crooooooow

    It was so good I bought my hand a car.

  • June 18, 2012, 4:47 a.m. CST

    Bishop

    by Rob Taylor

    The plot hole I think is not so much Ferro leaving Bishop but Burke... he has a lot invested in Bishop and the Organism's survival. When does he contact Burke to tell him to prepare the specimens for stasis etc... The only thing that makes sense to me is he tells Ferro where to land, putting them in danger and hoping to kill them without crashing the dropship... That way Bishop could still fly it out...

  • June 18, 2012, 4:54 a.m. CST

    MUCH prefer the theatrical cut to the director's

    by theyreflockingthisway

    The sentry gun scenes are great, yes, but the cut-away to LV426 before Ripley goes there really takes away from the mystery of what might have happened before they encounter the aliens. In the theatrical cut you're not sure what might have happened. You know it'll be something to do with that ship, but what? The space jockeys return? A different species is unleashed? Multiple species unleashed? The dereclict kickstarted back to life, blocking communication? You're not really sure until you see the aliens. In the director's cut, they go into the ship, see a facehugger and you just think "here we go again". Also I hate Cameron's handling of the derelict ship. It doesn't look a patch on Ridley's and what's with the plastic corrugated piping and wiring hanging from the crack in the ship? The derelict is one ship I didn't think would have an 1980's style air conditioning system installed. Other than that, Aliens is a top class film.

  • June 18, 2012, 4:56 a.m. CST

    They should have called The Mummy Returns - Mummiens

    by Anklavepak

  • June 18, 2012, 5:22 a.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...good job googling sci-fi authors. Again though...trolling 101. Pathetic.

  • June 18, 2012, 5:24 a.m. CST

    DCUT75...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...Rock Of Ages? More your thing, kiddo. Troll harder next time.

  • June 18, 2012, 5:38 a.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ..."As an ex-soldier myself, and working current with special ops soldiers..." HA HA HA HA!!! Total fantasy land. That's where you live.

  • June 18, 2012, 6:20 a.m. CST

    ALIENS is bible for bug movies

    by Dazzler69

    Always was and always will be. Game over man.

  • June 18, 2012, 6:37 a.m. CST

    Ripley didn't kill a lot of aliens.

    by Volllllume3

    She destroyed a shitload of eggs though. With fire. And high explosive grenades. But Aliens? Three or four, max. All coming right at her. Also you have to understand that a large part of the hive had been wiped out by a combination of the sentry guns and the last stand made by the remaining marines.

  • June 18, 2012, 6:53 a.m. CST

    So true about Lucas....

    by Joe

    Dude, i'm so glad someone stated that about Lucas. Not too long ago a group of friends and myself were commenting on how soon they are going to redo all 3 movies. most likely when GL dies and the kids get to sell off the rights to 20th Century Fox. it'd be great to see what a new director, writer, producer, will do to the franchise. I'd love to see the entire series redone, especially the first 3 films. No lie Lucas just sucks. I love Star Wars but I can clearly see Lucas is not a 'character' director, he's a 'visual effects' director. but seeing that he's got so much damn money no one can say 'No' to him. Looking forward to the day that Star Wars is remade into a fresher version of the originals. -Rex.

  • June 18, 2012, 6:54 a.m. CST

    PROMETHEUS 2 does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    In the spirit of mystery and unanswered questions surrounding PROMETHEUS I have a question of my own – does PROMETHEUS 2 already exist (in this dojo)? Have Ridley Scott and Damon Lindelof pulled off possibly the biggest coup in motion picture history by secretly shooting PROMETHEUS 2 back-to-back with the first part? Yes it’s crazy. Yes it seems highly unlikely. It would be truly unprecedented. But I’ve done a little digging and there are some questions about the production that don’t quite add up. Indulge me for a minute of your time and let me run with this… What does 10.11.12 mean at the end of the film and in the viral clip? The message states “The Weyland Corporation are currently seeking investors for several classified projects”. We know it doesn’t tally with the release date of the DVD and Blu Ray which are confirmed for October 9th. Could it be the date that *something else* will be announced? During the development period Ridley Scott stated that the budget would be $250 million. Why then did PROMETHEUS’ budget end up at only $125 million, half of Scott’s figure? Ridley is a veteran film maker and businessman, you would expect his budget ‘guesstimates’ to be fairly on the nose – how could he have been that far out. Have we only been given the $ figure for the first act of two? GLADIATOR was a 4 month shoot. HANNIBAL a 3 month shoot. And AMERICAN GANGSTER with a runtime of 157 minutes was just a two month shoot. PROMETHEUS had a longer pre-production than any of them so why was it close to a 7 month shoot? What were they doing all that time? The exterior shots of LV-223, the stretch of land between the spaceship and the alien site were shot in Iceland. But what was shot in the Wadi Rum desert in Jordan? And why towards the end of the production did cast and crew descend on Ciudad de la Luz near Alicante Spain where they rented one of the world’s largest water tanks for a period of 4 months? Anyone remember any aquatic sequences? I’m not given to conspiracy theories and of course I realize this is conjecture with a capital C… but maybe just maybe PROMETHEUS 2 is already in the can? We all know that Lindelof impressively managed to keep LOST under wraps and by all accounts the 8 sound stages that Ridley commandeered (including the massive 007 stage) remained watertight. Closed sets, a relatively small cast and no doubt intimidating Non Disclosure Agreements helped create an environment where secrecy could be maintained. If the second act of PROMETHEUS is secretly in post production as we speak, waiting to be announced on 10.11.12 then it will be perhaps the biggest reveal geekdom has ever known. Brains will be broken. I’m probably wrong but… maybe. Just maybe?

  • June 18, 2012, 6:58 a.m. CST

    @brightgeist is dead on with Prometheus.....

    by Joe

    I have to admit, "Prometheus" is NOT "Alien", "Aliens", "Alien 3", "Aliens: Insurrection" etc. it's like Harry said, don't even bother with those films. Prometheus is truly sci-fi. It forces you to THINK. I'm so sick of people complaining of "plot Holes' and "Silly plot devices" oh c'mon. Do you need EVERYTHING spoon fed to you? Shit, i really hope Ridley makes a sequel to Prometheus, i'm really stoked to see where he goes with the story. -Rex

  • June 18, 2012, 6:59 a.m. CST

    @jazzdownunder

    by brightgeist

    let me address some of the "problems" you see with PROMETHEUS: "Biologists who don't act/behave like biologists." they're still human beings who are completely overwhelmed by a totally new and strange situation. if you believe that a person will always behave rationally and according to their profession, then you are simply wrong. "DNA that can be an exact "100% match" but which then results in lifeforms that aren't just different in small ways such as bone structure, skin pigmentation, eye color etc or some slight difference in size, but in a life-form which is 2 feet or more taller and built like the side of a barn compared to their DNA twins." that is really very easy to explain. the Engineers are OBVIOUSLY able to manipulate life on a deeper level than DNA. otherwise the whole premise of them seeding life with a certain "goal" on a planet wouldn't make any sense. if all they had at their "engineering disposal" were DNA, then they could never have seeded us in the first place, because they could not have encoded the "evolutionary goal" in their seed DNA. so we have to assume that DNA is only the "rough code" to them, and that they can encode on a level below that (molecular or even lower). and therefore, it makes total sense that when we compare their DNA with ours, we could find a match, because we aren't scanning for the deeper encoding. "A "pathogen scanner" brought along on a MISSION TO AN ALIEN PLANET/MOON would NOT have been programmed ONLY to check for KNOWN pathogens and just ignore anything it didn't recognise." you are clearly missing something here. all they do is scan the ATMOSPHERE there. their scanner doesn't say "there is nothing unhealthy anywhere in the room", it only says that the atmosphere in there is breathable. and the "black goo" obviously isn't airborne, because if it were airborne, everyone would be infected immediately. that is obviously not the case, the "black goo" only infects people on direct contact (or ingestion), and that is why the scanner didn't pick it up. clearly the problems with this movie are in your head.

  • June 18, 2012, 7 a.m. CST

    Special edition is the directors cut?

    by Alex Pez

    I remember reading an interview with Cameron years ago where he discussed the parts that were in the Special Edition, and it sounded like the directors cut was the theatrical release. The cut scenes were cut with good reason (no, not for reasons unknown!) - the drama was forced in the Ripley child death scene, the footage on the planet pre-impregnation meant that people new to the film knew what was coming, the automatic rifles turned the aliens into stupid "force in numbers" attackers, etc etc. Since then ive always looked at the Special Edition as the Fox cut - lets put those scenes back in edition.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:03 a.m. CST

    Actually Ripley kills about 10 aliens

    by theyreflockingthisway

    She crushes one with the APC, kills one in the ambush when they cut the power, a facehugger and six more in the queen's nest (plus a ton of eggs) and then the queen herself. Of course, it doesn't make any difference, though. It seemed perfectly feasible that she'd be able to kill the ones she did in this movie. They were all coming at her through a narrow enclosure and the others were killed whilst she was operating heavy machinery. It doesn't matter anyway - if the fact Ripley kills too many aliens is seen as unrealistic to you then you just need to relax and enjoy movies as movies a little more.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:09 a.m. CST

    @alexpez

    by theyreflockingthisway

    Before the Aliens Special Edition Quadrilogy DVD, Cameron says the Special Edition is his preferred version. That kind of disappoints me in a way as I like Cameron as a director and would assume he'd be as critical of those scenes as anyone and agree he made the right choice to take them out originally. However I have my theatrical cut of the film and I do like to watch the Special Edition from time to time, despite being my less preferred version, simply because it's cool to see the derelict in an Alien move again - even if handled badly. Theatrical cut all the way for me, though, for reasons you've stated.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:11 a.m. CST

    "Special Edition" is not the same as "Director's Cut"

    by Autodidact

    Half the websites out there refer to the ALIENS special edition as a director's cut. It's not.

  • Jesus christ I hate people sometimes.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:17 a.m. CST

    Aliens is to Alien as Empire is to Star Wars

    by Inexplicable_Nuclear_Balls

    I'm currently watching. It's also interesting to note both franchises took a nosedive with the third entry. There's so much to love in Aliens, and it's not just the big action pieces. One of my favorite moments is during the standoff in the egg-laying room. As Ripley and Newt attempt to back out of the chamber, the egg closest to them opens up. Ripley tilts her head ever so slightly and gives the Queen an "Oh well, I warned you" look before torching the fuck out of her unborn brood. You can also see the pent-up rage on her face as she's blasting away with everything she's got. This is the cathartic moment of payback for all the physical and emotional trauma these creatures have put her through. Just an amazing sequence.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:17 a.m. CST

    Hey maybe they should remake ALIEN 1 to 3 as well!

    by Autodidact

    You fucking assclowns are such glistening products of a mediated society that your brains now work exactly like a lame-ass corporate marketing team.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:27 a.m. CST

    @cobra--kai

    by brightgeist

    i have honestly suspected the same thing a few days ago ;) thanks for your digging, this is certainly getting my wishful thinking muscles excited :)

  • June 18, 2012, 7:29 a.m. CST

    Stupid piece of crap cut off part of my first paragraph

    by Inexplicable_Nuclear_Balls

    Let's try this again: Both sequels are as good as, or (depending on your perspective) better than the originals - plus they take you to unexpected places in their continuing stories. Which one is the best? Whichever one I'm currently watching. It's also interesting to note both franchises took a nosedive with the third entry. There's so much to love in Aliens, and it's not just the big action pieces. One of my favorite moments is during the standoff in the egg-laying room. As Ripley and Newt attempt to back out of the chamber, the egg closest to them opens up. Ripley tilts her head ever so slightly and gives the Queen an "Oh well, I warned you" look before torching the fuck out of her unborn brood. You can also see the pent-up rage on her face as she's blasting away with everything she's got. This is the cathartic moment of payback for all the physical and emotional trauma these creatures have put her through. Just an amazing sequence.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:47 a.m. CST

    Best of the entire series, Dammit!

    by Stalkeye

    Great dialogue, unforgettable ensemble cast and impressive set pieces along with Stan Winston's FX. Hands down, My favorite Cameron Film.

  • That being said, I would have bought the entire BD Box set if Alien 3 and Ressurection wasn't so disappointing. But I'm more than content with the Single Blu-Ray copy of Aliens for only $5.00 courtesy of Amazon.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:02 a.m. CST

    The guy who edited this write-up sucks ass...

    by GBH

    Two nice paragraphs about Bill Paxton and how he owned this movie and made it enjoyable are missing. Paraphrasing... Ripley: "This little girl survived for two weeks down here by herself." Hudson: "Well maybe we should put her in charge.." Paxton single handedly took the role of comedic smartass in the face of death and catapulted it into the stratosphere. Everyone else since then have tried to emulate and failed.

  • And both rule. Alien 3 lost me in the first 5 minutes, although, to be fair, it did have some good moments and I thought the space prison monastery idea was kinda cool. Alien 4 was more fun to watch, but becomes spectacularly stupid. That thing with the giant alien baby thing was RE TAR DED. Why did no one ever do the most obvious thing and have part 3 feature Newt grown up fighting the Alien War on Earth?

  • June 18, 2012, 8:11 a.m. CST

    ALIEN, ALIENS, ALIEN ASSHOLE, ALIEN CUNT

    by Autodidact

  • June 18, 2012, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Red light return

    by FluffyUnbound

    1. The military unit is incompetently led by a novice lieutenant. 2. They are overconfident. The wake-up scene and briefing scene show you that these guys have been on bug hunts before and think it's no big deal. The exterminator who comes to my house to set out field mouse bait doesn't send robot probes into my basement before he goes in. 3. The marines get taken down because they engage the xenomorphs after making the (bad) tactical decision to not use their best weapons, due to the proximity of the reactor. ALIENS is actually refreshing in this regard: it comes up with a TACTICALLY SOUND reason why its crack commando squad gets fragged, unlike a film like, say, RESIDENT EVIL, which just throws a laser grid room up there and calls it a day. 4. The motion sensing equipment only works when you're, you know, using it. When you're flying the lander and not using the motion-sensing equipment, it's of little help to you. 5 and 6. The mech loader vs. Queen fight is the weakest part of the film. You're right, it makes no sense. It's there because Cameron probably thought it was a cool image, and it is - and because Cameron wanted his heroine to get to go toe-to-toe with the Queen. I don't like it, but I tolerate it because it comes at the end of a kick-ass movie that had already earned my respect and could therefore take a few liberties with its climax. 7 and 8. I think you're dealing with Burke's plan there, and not the company's plan. Burke has his own plan from the beginning, because even when the colony signal goes dark he's still the only one who really believes Ripley. BTW: 'SEE THE FUCKING MOVIE. If you didn't understand it, SEE IT AGAIN.' Since this strongly implies that you think you understood it, go ahead and explain it. Write a paragraph or two explaining it. That should be easy to do, right? Knock yourself out.

  • THAT WAS REALLY GOOD NORDING, ENJOYED TOUR THOUGHTS VERY MUCH

  • June 18, 2012, 8:18 a.m. CST

    ALIENS - Cannon Fodder

    by SHADOWPRIME

    Have to respectfully disagree, if the implication is that the creatures were weaker in ALIENS. I think the difference was that the single creature in ALIEN was taking on a group of ill-prepared, ill-equipped, relatively unarmed civilians, while the creatures in ALIENS were taking on a group of heavily armed, well trained, hardened professional fighting men and women. The single creature in ALIEN seemed more formidable because of circumstance. The individual creatures in ALIENS were still formidable, but it was a completely different situation.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:23 a.m. CST

    Most frightening part of the Alien franchise?

    by Nice Marmot

    The thought of a child conceived by Hudson and Lambert.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:29 a.m. CST

    "I guess she didn't like the cornbread either."

    by SID 8.0

    Such a great movie. I think I'll go out and buy the first two today.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:35 a.m. CST

    The biggest plot hole in Aliens...

    by quori

    Is the fact that the Aliens drones/warriors are killed in droves throughout the film. We know that even a drop of their blood can secrete its way through multiple levels of metal. That hallway in the director's cut where the sentries were mowing them down...it would have rotted out the entire zone there would have been so much Alien blood & guts. Same can be said for pretty much every area they were blasted in. The entire wing of the facility that they were in would have become destabilized based on the amount of acid eating away at the metal frame, walls, floors, etc.

  • Bishop. Why then was Ash in hypersleep in Alien? For whatever reason the company didn't want it known he was an android.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Somebody should do a fan edit of Starship Troopers and...

    by phifty2

    replace all the bugs with aliens. The brain bug and the bigger ones that shit spores can be queens.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:43 a.m. CST

    If they shot Prometheus...

    by SunTzu77

    ...and Prometheus 2 back-to-back... the odds will be that it will be a pile of shit as well. The Prometheus script needed about four more re-writes.

  • (waiting for bottles to get thrown)

  • June 18, 2012, 8:46 a.m. CST

    @fluffyunbound marine "bug hunt" wasn't literal.

    by theyreflockingthisway

    It was their way of describing a mundane mission - such as finding the cause of the problem and eliminating it if necessary. The opposite of a "straight out fight". None of the marines had encountered another alien of any kind before this film. Such lines as "apparently she saw an alien once" and the company meeting at the start seem to state that either no other living person is aware of any other alien life in the universe yet except for Ripley.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:51 a.m. CST

    inexplicable_nuclear_balls

    by phifty2

    Yeah you have to wonder if that egg didn't open when it did if Ripley would have just left knowing the queen was going to be nuked anyway. But it does open(I guess on movement/proximity instinct) and Ripley is like "You had to push it bitch." Fawoooooosh!

  • June 18, 2012, 8:51 a.m. CST

    @jakal40

    by brightgeist

    not throwing bottles, but the Xenomorph in ALIEN³ wasn't done with CGI, it was a model shot in front of a blue screen. so i think it's pretty funny that you think it's "bad CG", when it's actually not CG at all :D

  • June 18, 2012, 8:58 a.m. CST

    Maybe PROMETHEUS 1+2 will be like MATRIX 2+3

    by Autodidact

    Filmmaking that is a tight collaboration with marketers where the story is convoluted by the writer/director's preoccupation with meaning when they should be preoccupied with the audience's viewing experience (storytelling).

  • June 18, 2012, 9 a.m. CST

    The rod puppet in A3 does have some terrible optical composites

    by Autodidact

    .. and the alien POV shots in that movie look cheap and too obviously non-organic... they remind me of the evil-POV shots from Evil Dead 2.

  • Maybe it was optically composited and that's why it looks so green on video.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Please, they did not already shoot Prometheus 2

    by rev_skarekroe

    You think an enormous cast and crew could keep something like that a secret? That idea reminds me of the people that think there's going to be a Heath Ledger Joker cameo in The Dark Knight that was secretly filmed years ago (as if Nolan knew Ledger was going to die and figured he'd better shoot some extra footage while he could) or the people who were so scared of the Phantom Menace trailers that they tried to claim it was all misdirection by Lucas and that the REAL movie would be totally different. Don't try to turn your real life into fan-fic - it doesn't work.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Theyreflockingthisway, you've got it backwards.

    by FluffyUnbound

    The marines have fought bugs before - just not bugs that are this tough. The line 'apparently she saw an alien once' is sarcasm meant to show that the marines don't feel like they need a briefing from Ripley, because seeing one alien doesn't make her an authority on bug hunting. They're mocking her experience when compared to their own. 'Straight up fight', to me, meant a fight where they were facing human opponents who were intelligent and could use weapons. That's a 'real' fight, whereas wiping out 'bugs' is an assignment that's not really worthy of the Marines' skills. 'They're animals, how could they take out the power?' The Marines think they're facing an animal-grade-intelligence alien life form opponent, something they've killed before.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:14 a.m. CST

    @autodidact

    by brightgeist

    what you and some other people apparently can't accept is that a lot of people LIKE films that deal with meanings and themes. i love the MATRIX sequels, and i love PROMETHEUS too, because they are science fiction movies that deal with relevant ideas and they are extremely entertaining and exciting at the same time.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:21 a.m. CST

    Lindelof...

    by SunTzu77

    Anyone watch the Spoilers interview? He pretty much concedes he just threw crazy ideas out there for both Lost and Prometheus for shits and grins. http://www.hulu.com/watch/371892

  • June 18, 2012, 9:21 a.m. CST

    The problem with Promo was runtime=studio

    by iluvsyfy

    From watching Prometheus it is obvious that the studio execs butchered Scott's final vision (typical, at least for him). You would figure they would have earned after al these years to just release the artist and let him run with it. Whedon and Nolan are allowed carte blanc, while do the studios still keep Scott reigned in? If you look at his DC versions, you can see that his final versions (the ones he wanted) are superior too the TC ones. Yet the studios seem to always want them cut down to as close to two hours as possible, even though those condensed versions are far inferior to the DC versions.What is lame is Scott always defends these fucked up studio shortened versiosn of his masterpieces, I guess so as not to make ruffle feathers. Anyone watching Promo can see the bad editing, where questions arise from wtf, why did that happen? what is going on? how can a Scott character be so stupid? (which they aren't), so it becomes apparent again, like a dozen other times, that Ridley's 3 hr. masterpiece ended up on the cutting room floor. I just hope foreign B.O. makes enough that the studio allows Scott the carte blanc (like they should have at the start) to bring his DC master stroke of Prometheus not only to Blueray, but maybe in theatres again.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:23 a.m. CST

    alien and aliens, two sides of the same coin.

    by Ivor Heath

    i still prefer alien simply for the fact that its the original, it laid the groundwork for the rest to follow and also mainly for its , well, beautiful ferocious simplicity. tbh i was always a bit sniffy about aliens and looked down my nose at it, but over the years i've grown to love it as well. the two films do compliment each other beautifully, the yin and yang of space horror, the old dark house and the rollercoaster. what could be better? wonderful.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:29 a.m. CST

    brightgeist you are a dimbulb

    by Autodidact

    I didn't say I didn't like them. I fucking love the MATRIX movies and I'm going back to see Prometheus a second time.

  • DUN dun...dun dun dun DUN dun...dun DUN dun DUN DUN.....DUN DUN!!!!! Silent, blinding, white flash.....BOOOOOOMMMM!!!!

  • June 18, 2012, 9:30 a.m. CST

    ILUVSYFY...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ..."From watching Prometheus it is obvious that the studio execs butchered Scott's final vision" Sadly, Scott has stated in numerous interviews that this is the cut he's satisfied with and that any director's cut will be at the behest of consumers. He's just not the director he once was.

  • I personally love all the MATRIX movies on multiple levels. But I'm not so up my own ass as to think that because I love them so much that they are objectively well-told stories. They're not.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:34 a.m. CST

    @autodidact

    by brightgeist

    "story is convoluted" doesn't sound like you LIKE those movies... but it's pretty pathetic that you immediately have to insult me.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:36 a.m. CST

    johnnywrong

    by iluvsyfy

    If that is the case, Scott really is getting old and senile.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:38 a.m. CST

    I agree... theatrical cut better than special edition.

    by Brian Hopper

    The theatrical cut is lean and mean. The cut scenes (e.g., about Ripley's daughter) aren't bad per se, but don't add enough to make their inclusion worthwhile. Cameron had it right when they first cut the film. And it is an ACTION film, so pacing matters. Regardless, a truly great action/adventure film.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:39 a.m. CST

    yea, it's good, but damn that pacing is soooo effing slow

    by thesmilingpsycho

    i don't think it's a great movie. it's visually well done and impressive for the time, but it just trudges along.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Is a final B.O. of 400 mil enough?

    by iluvsyfy

    I figure the domestic total will cap somewhere around 150-170 mil with a foreign haul of 220-250 with a cum of roughly 400 mil ww. The question is will that be enough where the studio either green lights a DC version, or even a sequel. If the film cost 125 mil plus 50-70 for marketing, this will mean Promo made a profit, albeit not a massive amount. With of course DVD/BR sales and rights to cable, etc. Prometheus will have definitely made for the studio quite a decent profit margin. That alone to me justifies one or both scenarios.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:52 a.m. CST

    I'M ALWAYS AMUSED...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...by people who bring up box office figures. It's business that's killing the artistry of Hollywood, so don't come on here and waffle on about figures that essentially don't mean a damn thing. Come here to talk about the art of film.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:58 a.m. CST

    You don't think the story in the Matrix sequels is convoluted?

    by Autodidact

    I've never met anyone who thinks those sequels have a story that is easy to follow on any level. It's called nuance. Life is full of contradictions (which are usually not actually contradictions, but nuance).

  • June 18, 2012, 10:01 a.m. CST

    I didn't mean to insult you. I was merely making an observation.

    by Autodidact

    You seem dim. So sue me.

  • actually, that scene of Ripley finding out about her daughter's death was pivitol of her relationship with Newt and why She went out her way to protect her. The deleted scene practically wrote itself. Having lose a Daughter only to find solace within a Child who is also without a family, further strengtens the bond between the two. In Alien 3, Ripley is going through a simular painful experience when hearing about the loss of another "Daughter'. FIN

  • How about if the reason she had a kid back on Earth was because SHE WAS ACTUALLY THE VIRGIN MARY!?!?!?!?!?

  • And it can be revealed that Ripley's daughter was Burke's mother... RIPLEY IS BURKE'S GRANDMOTHER!!!!!!! Did I just make you idiots cum your pantaloons!?!?

  • June 18, 2012, 10:16 a.m. CST

    not sure it's a plothole, but the 'rescue in seventeen days'

    by IWasInJuniorHighDickhead

    it seems to imply that they would have to hold out for that long (Hudson saying they wouldn't make seventeen hours, let alone days). But given that they're far away enough to need hypersleep chambers, wouldn't rescue be a lot longer than that? Maybe they're only a couple of weeks hypersleep away from Gateway (I seem to remember reading this somewhere) but that would mean that the rescue team would be launching only a couple of days after the Sulaco. Sure there's an explanation, but damned if I know what it is.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:23 a.m. CST

    @fluffyunbound It's definitely just a military term.

    by theyreflockingthisway

    They never really go into whether any other alien life forms have ever been discovered - if that was the intention of the director that these marines were some kind of "bug exterminators" rather than soldiers, the director would have made it clear. I mean wouldn't Hudson have compared them to alien bugs rather than a normal "ant hive" (or bee hive, as Vasquez corrects him)? It's pretty obvious from the dialogue in Alien and the start of Aliens (where nothing like it has been found in over 300 surveyed worlds) that bug type aliens or any other kind of alien life form exists other than what's found on the derelict. The closest we get is the lice in Alien 3, and they probably even travelled there from earth. Anyway, I'm not trying to take away from original point, which I agree with. Infact, if you want to interpret the marines as bug exterminators then that's up to you too. That line is definitely just intended as military slang to them, though, but view the film as you wish.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:25 a.m. CST

    ^ Maybe rescue comes from the nearest outpost?

    by Autodidact

  • June 18, 2012, 10:28 a.m. CST

    @iluvsyfy Prometheus won't make 150-170 domestically

    by AlienFanatic

    It's already off by 60% in its 2nd week and sits at $88m per Boxofficemojo. I think it'll settle out at $115-$120M. There's just too much negativity. I have a feeling that the $20M this past weekend was due to geeks seeing it a 2nd time, but I highly doubt it'll get enough repeat business to end up at $150M. Could be wrong, but Brave opens this week (meaning a proabable drop in screens for Prometheus), Spider-Man in two weeks (taking over the 3D screens and a large portion of Prometheus's revenue), and Dark Knight is on the horizon. The studio also gets less and less from ticket sales as the weeks go on, since their agreements with theaters are typically heavily front-loaded. Again, according to BO Mojo we're at about $220M worldwide and the title's been out for three weeks overseas. I think Prometheus will end up at about $300-$320M before DVD/Blu-ray sales. It'll make a profit, but not anywhere near what the studio hoped they'd make, for sure, considering how much buzz it had.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Now that really doesn't make any sense.

    by FluffyUnbound

    Hudson: Is this gonna be a standup fight, sir, or another bughunt? Gorman: All we know is that there's still no contact with the colony, and that a xenomorph may be involved. Frost: Excuse me sir, a-a what? Gorman: A xenomorph. Hicks: It's a bughunt. Hicks and Hudson have clearly been on previous 'bughunts'. There's just no way for this dialogue to make any sense if they haven't been.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Are people here actually saying this isn't a good movie?

    by Playkins

    Come the fuck on- this is an absolute CLASSIC which invented the scifi/action/suspense genre.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:57 a.m. CST

    @johnnywrong - waiting on list

    by BlueSkittle

    So I've read down through most of this "argument" between you and these other two and all it's done is make me want to see/hear your list of movies. I've got a decent collection and would be interested to hear what movies make your best of list. Didn't see an inkling of any kind of list.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:01 a.m. CST

    It makes perfect sense and that dialogue actually proves my point:

    by theyreflockingthisway

    For a start Xenomorph itself is also some of their military terms. How can they name an alien species that they haven't come into contact with yet and don't even know exists? Xenomorph simply stands for "alien (or strange) form", so the fact Frost hasn't heard this term before means it's not a term the marines have heard before. Surely if they're attacking alien forms all the time, they'd have heard that term. Hicks says "it's a bughunt" again as he's come to the conclusion that, because they're chasing a so-called alien life form that probably won't exist, they'll just be there for a "bug hunt" or rather to survey the planet and locate the problem of the downed transmitter rather than entering a war zone. Simple.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:02 a.m. CST

    wookie blowjob

    by Johnboy40

    surely one of the gazillions of alternate blade runner cuts would pre date the aliens extended cut?

  • June 18, 2012, 11:12 a.m. CST

    The sentry gun sequence is boring as hell. That needed cut out of the DC.

    by Jason Bartlett

  • June 18, 2012, 11:14 a.m. CST

    I have to say

    by Johnboy40

    I'm surprised at people trying to slate Aliens in order to defend Prometheus. Whilst my preference is for Alien, any one that doesn't recognise Aliens is a fine movie must have a screw lose, imo. (although I do think the suggestion that a military vehicle wouldn't have had some form of flight crew remain on board in case of emergency, even allowing for all the automation to be a bit dippy, if I'm honest, it is probably the biggest flaw the movie has, apart from paper thin characterization for most of the redshirts...and lets be honest, Hudson wouldnt have got past basic training for paintball instructors) However, I do think a lot of the criticism Prometheus (which is undoubtedly flawed) is getting is utterly infantile. People are claiming things like Biologists acting like pillocks as a "plot hole".....remember, Steve Irwin was a zoologist and a herpetologist, and the man was a fucking idiot, got bitten or stung by virtually every animal he went near. (and there are plenty of other examples of scientists being stupid cocks) Just sticking with this one example, think about what Milburn was actually doing...he was doing what everyone does when they meet a strange dog or cat..putting out their hand so the animal can have a sniff, whilst trying to sound soothing. Stupid, yep. But Human Beings do stupid things in unusual situations. even scientists.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:20 a.m. CST

    theyreflockingthisway

    by Johnboy40

    I've never interpreted that convo as meaning anything but they have encountered alien life before, especially when you add the conversation that (I think) Hudson and Vazquez had about ripley..as in "oooo she saw an alien once" suggests that at this point, its not uncommon.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:28 a.m. CST

    interesting discussion about the 'bug hunt' thing

    by JAMF

    good work guys. anyone turning this into another prometheus thread: FFUUUUUCCKKK YYYOOOOUUU!!!!

  • June 18, 2012, 11:33 a.m. CST

    'she saw an alien once'

    by JAMF

    to me the whole convo sounds like aliens don't exist at all for these marines. like lv426 was totally hushed up/denied, they colonised it and no alien encounters have happened or at least none have become public knowlegde in the entire alien universe, since ripley's encounter. the bug hunt thing sounded more like people use the term "babysitting" to describe a cushy but boring "waste of our time" job, you know? but why they'd use the term bug hunt i dunno... sort of like a wild goose chase but bug does imply aliens so i dunno... on the fence. havent read through the aliens comics yet but i got a ton of them, i wonder if more backstory is on there, or the alien wiki? come to think of it, what DO colonial marines do? do they fight colonists who are getting out of hand mutinying or what? they're "earth marines" right, they aren't allied to a particular nation?

  • June 18, 2012, 11:34 a.m. CST

    the sentry scene was very important and should have been in the TC

    by IWasInJuniorHighDickhead

    It explains why the squad last even a few hours in operations. The aliens were straight on them after their encounter in the processing station. They were probing for weaknesses in the defenses, but gave up on the corridors cause of the guns. They are smart, but not smart enough to guess that the marines didn't have more than ten rounds left on the gun. <P> If you don't know the scene exists then I guess you're not going to miss it, but for me it explains the lull between the initial fight and the breaking of the siege at Operations. The aliens were right on the marines' tail, but were stopped by the guns, which prompted them to go off and have a rethink. In the theatrical, it feels like the aliens are giving the squad a bit of a time-out in the middle part of the film.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:39 a.m. CST

    ALIEN is tainted by PROMETHEUS, ALIENS is not

    by thommcg

    Think about it... You can't watch ALIEN without thinking "That elephantine creature is actually just some large white guy in a suit, even his DNA matches human.". ALIENS doesn't have such baggage.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:41 a.m. CST

    Prometheus shouldn't even come into this discussion.

    by Flip63Hole

    Just recently watched both Alien and Aliens again. Damon Lindelof's little attempts at explaining the mysteries of Alien/Aliens aren't needed, and don't work. Let alone the mess of a "story" and lack of interesting characters. Saw it once, doubt I'll ever see it again. Seen Alien/Aliens +30 times each. I'll be watching them many times before I die.

  • They've all seen aliens before, and have killed them, and aren't impressed. Of course, they've never encountered anything like this particular species of xenomorph which is about to wipe them all out.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:47 a.m. CST

    It's also implied that there are more than one species of xenomorph.

    by NeonFrisbee

    The way Gorman says "and a xenomorph may be involved" implies there are other species of form-alterin' aliens; clearly none as dangerous as this, though.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:47 a.m. CST

    I agree with juniorhigh

    by donkey_lasher

    When the directors cut was released, it was a such a huge geekgasm of a release, that people forgave it for lengthening the movie, and spoiling the pace. Ridley Scott did a sterling job on his own Directors cut, by trimming his own film. Cameron could have done the same. The turret scenes seem like the most important, and the Newts Family/Ripleys daughter stuff isn't really necessary. I was surprised that Scott put the coccoon segement back in though, as it was originally intended that the captured crew would be naturally bio engineered by the Xeno into becoming Eggs,

  • Seems like they all got some at one point, and that it doesn't matter if they're male or female.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:50 a.m. CST

    People need to get over Prometheus

    by donkey_lasher

    It's canon in the Alien universe. The third best Alien universe film as well.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Perfect Orgasm

    by CuervoJones

    Aliens. Perfect action movie.

  • Mostly.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:17 p.m. CST

    Daughter Ref in Alien

    by Bigstadder

    I could have sworn in a version of Alien that Nash and Ripley talked about Ripley being back in time for her daughter's birthday.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:24 p.m. CST

    Prometheus is third best of the franchise

    by spire_walk

    Aliens>Alien>Prometheus>Alien 3>Alien Resurrection>AvP>AvP2 Alien may be better than Aliens, or vice versa, depending on what you like and don't like. I for one consider Alien to be uneven. The first act is phenomenal, and redefined science fiction movies. Anything after the chest burster is 10 Little Indians in Space. The finale is strong though. Aliens comes out ahead in my list because you actually have character development, it took the series in a whole new route and made it work, and it's a very solid, well-rounded plot. The Alien Franchise, for the longest time existed with Alien (9/10), Aliens (11/10) and then Alien 3 (-1/10) and Alien Res (-2/10). Two perfect movies followed be two of the most terrible. Prometheus (7/10) exists in the vast gulf between two of the greatest movies ever and two of the most terrible. I love the movie, personally.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:27 p.m. CST

    I liked Aliens at the time, because I was about 12 yrs old

    by Lone Fox

    I watched it again last week, it's dated horribly. It's filled to bursting point with Cameron cliches. Bullshit dialogue, marine machismo, brat kid, PAUL REISER. He was in My Two Dads! Saying that, he fully filled the boots of 'company smarm suck-up', but still... They worked fine back in the 80's, but now just felt like typical Cameron. Basically, take the original idea and multiply. It's still kind of fun, but... eh.

  • I'm really curious what constitutes a film's "success" to warrant a sequel. Is there a true stick to measure this by..?

  • June 18, 2012, 12:34 p.m. CST

    Added content

    by Brazo

    The extra scenes involving Ripley's daughter really helped give the character some depth and a strong motivation in regards to her actions and the strong bond she develops with Newt. It also solidifies the fact that Ripley really did spent 57 years asleep. Before the Special Edition I always thought that that detail was part of her nightmare at the beginning and nothing more since there seems to be no real consequences after this bit is told. The turret scenes also helped clarify the constant stress the squad is under. We get the feeling that they can never take a breather until they stop their attacks. The only scenes that could be cut without any real consequences imo is Newt's family inspecting the derelict. It doesn't really add anything vital to the movie. Somehow I always imagined this Newt family segment as way more horrific than what was shown to me when the special Edition arrived. I think it was better when the scene was left to the imagination and solidifies the understanding of why Ripley is taking that kid under her wing.

  • It's weird, I actually liked it despite the fact that it's deeply stupid. I'd see a sequel if, you know, they hire a real writer and keep Fassbenderbot on board.

  • Alien is definitely the best and most artful, but Aliens is a kick ass action moviefilm that's actually good and well thought out. It definitely earns the love people have for it.

  • Strange because normally, without a solid story and logic and great characterizations, a film is utter crap for me. Prometheus is fun and entertaining despite some very questionable elements. Maybe its the overall concept I like... and the visuals... and some of the futurism of it... I liked the soundtrack also despite nearly everyone hating it. Fassbender and Rappace were good also. I thought the rest of the cast was toss-away. The art direction and the sweeping majestic beauty throughout the film really did keep me from wanting to kill people upon leaving the theater.

  • June 18, 2012, 12:52 p.m. CST

    "Cliched Cameron dialogue"

    by Volllllume3

    Jesus Christ, it's one of the most quotable movies of all time for fucks sake.

  • June 18, 2012, 1 p.m. CST

    neonfrisbee WRONG.

    by the Green Gargantua

    but believe what you want, according to the two directors that matter, you are mistaken.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:03 p.m. CST

    not hating, but it has come to something when Aliens is getting slammed

    by IWasInJuniorHighDickhead

    maybe it's just a sign of my age, but Aliens is probably the 'best' film i've ever seen. Nothing has come close to it. I can't find a line wrong in the script, it is cohesive like a motherfucker and i've never felt so invested in characters and their situation as I do here. I don't notice any particular dating of the film; the clunky 80s technology fits perfectly with the utilitarian vibe of the series (up to and including A3) and if the costume/model work is sloppy then I can't notice it.<P> I'm interested to hear from someone who dislikes it, what film gives them the thrill that Aliens gave me? Not bitching, i'm genuinely intrigued.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Wait, WRONG about what? The bug hunt thang?

    by NeonFrisbee

    Which directors say otherwise? I'm open to being wrong, I just always thought that's what they meant when they dismissed "bug hunt" as no big deal -- they've killed alien infestations for colonists before, no big deal.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:09 p.m. CST

    BLUESKITTLE...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...you'll be getting no such list to pick apart for your sad trollish amusement. Nice try, though.

  • And the beginning was really great with Fassbenderbot walking around, strongly implying Bowie whilst mimicking Lawrence of Arabia. I liked the weird Space Jerky sacrifice into weird world seeding thing too. And then... the rest of the movie happened. But the visual excellence was consistent. All of it looked (and mostly sounded) really, really great. Next time: hire a REAL writer.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:14 p.m. CST

    @autodidact

    by brightgeist

    "not easy to follow" is not the same thing as "convoluted". i have no problem with a story that isn't easy to follow, because that means that i get a chance to use my brain.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:23 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by BlueSkittle

    Not trolling. Genuinely curious. I fear a troll would be more apt to say "I have a list of awesome movies...but you guys can't know about them." If you stand behind your movie choices then you have no fear of anything anyone on here can say.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:27 p.m. CST

    @astronut, @wookie_blowjob

    by brightgeist

    the budget of PROMETHEUS was 120-130 million, according to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus_(film) so with another 70 million added for marketing/prints (prints?? in this digital age??), it would have to make about 200 million to break even. as you can see, it has already made 217 million: http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=prometheus.htm and it still hasn't opened in big markets like Germany, Japan, Spain and Italy: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1446714/releaseinfo and then don't forget that the DVD and Blu-ray sales will also add to the "box office", and it will do GREAT at those, first of all because lots of people really liked the movie, and second because everyone will want to see the extended cut. so you can easily add another 50 to 100 million from home video sales and rentals. so yes, a sequel is pretty much guaranteed.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:30 p.m. CST

    BLUESKITTLE...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...well, as I can't remember anybody saying that, there's no need for such a list. You may, of course, be referring to a comment I made whilst being accused of liking Madagascar, or some such crap, by another troll up above. Whatever, though. This is an Aliens discussion.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Bishop hole

    by brightgeist

    did anyone notice that they fixed the "Bishop hole" blooper in ALIENS? i was extremely happy to see that when i watched the movie on blu-ray yesterday. but maybe that's common knowledge already...

  • June 18, 2012, 1:34 p.m. CST

    you morons, 10.11.12 is NOT the blu-ray or the sequel...

    by foree forehead

    ..it's the prometheus reboot release date.

  • Hicks has his shotgun "for close encounters." Of course, he's sort of saying it as a joke, but you definitely get the feeling he's used it before on a bug or two.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:40 p.m. CST

    Acturian Poontang

    by spire_walk

    Acturians were a weird breakaway sect of gender bending human colonists. Space transsexuals/transvestites. They'd get changed into whatever gender they wanted, but their chromosomal sex would remain the same in spite of all outward characteristics.

  • June 18, 2012, 1:49 p.m. CST

    it's widely held that a film must

    by JAMF

    make twice it's budget just to break even. that's without marketing... prometheus bombed, probably because the idiots of the world were like 'what does prometheus mean?' etc... lucky for them eh? anyway, who gives a fuck about box office? they make so much off the trainsformers films they've done 4 of them. same with pirates of the caribbean...

  • June 18, 2012, 1:54 p.m. CST

    wookie- ridley scott is such a businessman

    by JAMF

    like george lucas (having come from an advertising background, no doubt) that all he thinks about is the money. some interviewer asked him about reviews and stuff and he said he doesn't care about that stuff just box office - the films he makes do well in home video too so he's happy. haha i love how everyone sees him as an "artist" because he's so "visual" he's just lucas, except he knows how to work with actors. so much prometheus defense is based on "it's ridley scott!! omg his return to scifi after making a whopping(!) TWO scifi films 30 years ago!!"

  • June 18, 2012, 1:54 p.m. CST

    "She saw an Alien once"...

    by veebeeyes

    Actually, that line seems to indicate that alien (bug) encounters are COMMON. Ferro and Hudson's response isn't one of disbelief, it's a response more along the lines of "who gives a shit?"

  • June 18, 2012, 1:59 p.m. CST

    @wookie_blowjob

    by brightgeist

    of course you're right. but still, with Germany and other big markets still going to open, and the home video market, i think it will break even.

  • Don't tell me a comic from Dark Horse or IDW about the Colonial Marines from Aliens - or again, a new team - just doing what they do, either fighting space terrorists or colonists or new monsters would not sell today. A prequel series, set a few years before, would let you expand on characters we only scratched the surface with in the films - not just the fan faves but also people like Frost, Apone, Dietrich. You could also just as easily do a film someday if someone wanted. The problem is that they assumed the CM concept could only work if they were fighting more of the same aliens. Bullshit. They could fight insurrectionists, robots, "Arcturians," whatever!

  • June 18, 2012, 2 p.m. CST

    hmm i always saw it more as

    by JAMF

    "an alien? yeah right... whatever you say, lady..."

  • June 18, 2012, 2:01 p.m. CST

    "She saw an Alien once"...

    by NeonFrisbee

    That's how I saw it. Who gives a shit. Another extermination run. But then... uh oh...

  • June 18, 2012, 2:02 p.m. CST

    somebody said alien, she thought they said

    by JAMF

    ILLEGAL ALIEN and signed up!

  • I'll take their word over the constantly shifting goalposts of angry fanboys who keep changing the number at which Prometheus is allowed to be considered a success.

  • June 18, 2012, 2:04 p.m. CST

    i don't really care who made PROMETHEUS

    by brightgeist

    it's a very excellent movie to me, and i couldn't care less who made it. in fact, i see Ridley Scott as a director-for-hire whose only personal vision is a visual one. BLADE RUNNER obviously wasn't his story, just like most of his other movies weren't his stories. that doesn't mean i don't respect him as a filmmaker, he is very good at what he does, but his films aren't HIS films, unlike for example James Cameron's films are definitely HIS films.

  • June 18, 2012, 2:08 p.m. CST

    jesus, reflecto...

    by JAMF

    are you ridley scott? all you seem to care about is MONEY

  • June 18, 2012, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Paul Reiser

    by wrath 4771

    The biggest compliment I can pay to Aliens is 26 years later I still hate Paul Reiser. He will always be Burke to me. Even though this was an "action" film, I think the build up between the Marines landing and the first encounter is some of the finest build up ever. I agree the aliens became cannon fodder in this movie, but at this point upon the first viewing, we still remember or related to what a bad-ass the alien in the first movie was. How were Marines going to match up against that kind of strength? I never really thought of no one being left on the ship as a problem. I think you answered your own question - the ship is fully automated and clearly it is established by the Marine's attitude that they are on a milk run.

  • June 18, 2012, 2:17 p.m. CST

    And it's not one thing...

    by veebeeyes

    Sure, any single line concerning aliens or bugs can be seen as ambiguous. But taken as a whole, all of those references really do indicate that the Marines have killed lots of aliens before. 1) The "apparently, she saw an alien once..." line. 2) The marines in the mess hall talking about rescuing "dumbass colonists. 3) The "bug hunt" dialogue. 4) Unless I'm mistaken (which is entirely possible), the dropship actually has a bug icon stenciled on it with the words "bug stomper". 5) The "close encounters" comment by Hicks. And there's probably more, but that's all I can think of right now. Anyway, no single one of those things really means anything. But taken as a whole, they actually present the picture of Marines are bored and cocky, because their role up to that point really HAS been glorified exterminators. And yes, "bug hunt" is an actual military term. But I sort of think it's a little bit cute to think that "bug hunt" has come to mean a LITERAL bug hunt. Because that's mostly what the Colonial Marines end up doing. Travelling to the colonies and rescuing "dumbass colonists" with bug problems.

  • June 18, 2012, 2:21 p.m. CST

    http://www.metacritic.com/movie/prometheus

    by JAMF

    what the fuck is up with the user ratings?

  • June 18, 2012, 2:28 p.m. CST

    "El riesgo siempre vive!"

    by BiggusDickus

    Go, Vasquez! Kick ass! Anyone else have the raging horn for Jenette Goldstein? No? Just me then...

  • June 18, 2012, 2:28 p.m. CST

    @astronut: PROMETHEUS open ending tells a story

    by brightgeist

    i would also love to see a sequel, but to me, the open ending, as it is, says something important. what i got from it was this: the "regular guys" like Captain Janek, who aren't great spiritual or scientific minds, save mankind with their sacrifice, while the spiritual and scientific guys continue their search for answers. this is a pretty hard (but somehow true) look at our society, in which all the regular people work their asses off just to make a living, while the scientists and spiritual people, who don't actually contribute a lot to humanity's everyday tasks, continue their searches. that is one of the many intriguing themes the movie has for me.

  • June 18, 2012, 2:29 p.m. CST

    I don't know about you...

    by KGersen

    but I'm really excited to see the assbut who turned Lost into such a pile reveal his great new mythos from Prometheus! i love you morons, Lovecraft (because everyone knows HPL), Von Daeiken. Prometheus was a truly crappy film and any person who claims they like it because it's sci-fi, is someone who doesnt understand the gence. Oh 100% dna match, but you poured wonder-mix dna combine into the rivers and yet humans pop same as but hairier and about 2 foot shorter? Seriously dude. By the way you fuckers, before googling to save you sad sacks, where' moniker from? If you claim to love sci-fi? Eh bitcbhes?

  • June 18, 2012, 2:29 p.m. CST

    @andromedus

    by brightgeist

    yes, my mistake

  • June 18, 2012, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Madagascar VS Prometheus

    by ltrain109

    Monetarily it doesn't matter which is the better movie. Madagascar makes more money because of it's target audience. My wife and I saw Prometheus = 2 tickets. My wife and I took our three children to Madagascar = 5 tickets. Madagascar wasn't horrible and I laughed in a few parts and my kids liked it. Prometheus was enjoyable and yes they forgot a helmet at the end. I'd rather see Prometheus again than Madagascar but will not go to either a second time as I have other things to do. I shouldn't have taken my kids to Prometheus and they couldn't go to Madagascar without me. It's not sad about one making more than the other. It's just that parents do things that they sometimes don't want to as part of raising children. It was also great fun to see my kids laughing and worth the price of admission. And yes my oldest is indoctrinated often about Raiders and other great movies that he has started to see and will continue to see as he gets older. Also I am aware of all the single people and those married people without children that could see Prometheus. But with less kids movies this season than normal parents are almost obligated to take their kids.

  • June 18, 2012, 2:31 p.m. CST

    @ltrain109

    by brightgeist

    what do you mean "they forgot a helmet at the end"? did i miss something?

  • June 18, 2012, 2:34 p.m. CST

    they...

    by KGersen

    will not know this. All this self-proclaimed gurus of sci-fi books and films willl not know where my moniker is from. You know why? Because they are twats who comment on things they should be allowed to comment on. Not good for the world./

  • June 18, 2012, 2:35 p.m. CST

    @kgersen

    by brightgeist

    like i said, the Engineers are obviously able to manipulate life on a deeper level than simply DNA. that's why they show a DNA match with humans, because the Prometheus crew doesn't have the ability to scan for the deeper encoding.

  • June 18, 2012, 2:41 p.m. CST

    Aliens has no holes. One of the best action movies of all time!!!

    by BilboRing

    This movie kicks ass in every way imaginable. The only movie I ever saw in a theater where people cheered like maniacs. Ripley says, "Get away from her you BITCH!" Great great great movie. I don't know if I remember the audience acting like that in other movies. Now that I remember it people clapped and cheered when the dog in ID4 jumped clear to safety. Cameron is a god. I felt for EVERY character in this film. Even the people in the background like Frost and Apone. Even Spunkmeyer. Most hacks these days can't even build character on the main characters of their movies. Cameron made you root for and feel terrible for every single person on the screen. Alien was a great horror sci'fi movie. Aliens is a great action/sci fi movie. Maybe the best ever. And the quotes are too many to count!!! I can't ever eat cornbread without saying "Guess she don't like the cornbread either." "There's some juicy colonist daughters we have to rescue from their virginity."

  • June 18, 2012, 2:48 p.m. CST

    yeah, James Cameron really is "not bad... for a human"

    by brightgeist

    actually, he's pretty much my only real role model in the world. he's not only an artistic and technical genius, but he also really tries to say something relevant in every one of his movies. and with AVATAR, he's really getting very close to the deepest root causes of the problems in our world today. he's one of the few filmmakers who are actually having a positive influence on the zeitgeist, like the Wachowskis for example.

  • I believe he cheated on his wife with Linda Hamilton and then ended up leaving her. Since then, he is divorced from Hamilton.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:07 p.m. CST

    @astronut

    by brightgeist

    i wasn't talking about his personal life. and in any case, i wouldn't hold any relationship stuff against anyone. people fall in love and fall out of love, and they hurt each other in the process. that isn't great, but i wouldn't say that someone isn't a role model because they got divorced and cheated on someone. i don't care about that stuff. what i care about is his creative and technical genius and his positive influence on people's values through his movies.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Notes about Aliens.

    by jellypop

    It has the most rousing, fitting and blistering piece of music ever attached to a movie when Ripley and Newt are rescued by Bishop near the end. The first time I watched Aliens with my little brother he had nightmares that the Alien Queen would land in our back garden after she fell out of the loading dock bay doors. He sat by the window the next day terrified, waiting for it to appear. He royally shit his pants. I don't think he's ever seen the film since.

  • Doesn't sound like a very nice guy to me.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:20 p.m. CST

    brightgeist

    by ltrain109

    The toxic planet atmosphere. The engineer traveled from the crashed ship to the escape pod without his helmet. I'm saying that ALL movies have missing items. With 12 months of working on a 2 hour experience it's going to happen. I still enjoyed it.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:22 p.m. CST

    BRIGHTGEIST...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...both Cameron and Scott are past their best. However, Ridley has made good movies more recently than Cameron, whose last decent one was The Abyss. All of Cameron's films since then have basically been in the crowd-pleasing spectacle arena.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:25 p.m. CST

    @ltrain109

    by brightgeist

    it is said during the landing approach of the Prometheus, that a human would die after breathing the atmosphere for (i think) 2 minutes. so if the Engineer held his breath for a minute (which even i can do), and then he took a few breaths of the toxic air, he could have easily survived. the short run from his ship to the escape pod. no mistake there, sorry to disappoint you :)

  • Like a lot of people, I have talent myself, loads of it... but I had children and I chose being a parent over chasing my personal goals and dreams. It's just the right thing to do.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:28 p.m. CST

    KGERSEN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...take your Jack Vance-inspired name, fuck off back to school and learn how to construct sentences properly.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:28 p.m. CST

    @astronut

    by brightgeist

    i don't have to google Cameron's life, i have just recently read the book about his life by Rebecca Keegan. and after reading about a lot of the details of his failed relationships and his directing style (details which you probably won't find as easily googling him), i don't see any problem with his integrity. but of course, if you take some internet comments as sources over a book written by someone who talked to Cameron himself as well as many of his friends and people he worked with, then that is your problem.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:30 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by brightgeist

    if you don't like TERMINATOR 2, TRUE LIES, TITANIC and AVATAR, then that is really your problem. i love those movies, they are aboslutely genius.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:31 p.m. CST

    @autodidact

    by brightgeist

    yes, being convoluted makes it hard to follow. but that doesn't mean that the same is true the other way round. a story can be hard to follow and NOT convoluted. it can be hard to follow because it's complex and intelligent.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:32 p.m. CST

    REFLECTO...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...if it can breathe on the planet then why was it's pyramid's air supply altered? Hmmm? Hmmm? Can't answer, can ya? Cos it's bad writing.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Cameron quote

    by brightgeist

    "Anybody can be a father or a husband. There are only five people in the world who can do what I do, and I'm going for that." i fully support that :)

  • June 18, 2012, 3:34 p.m. CST

    CAMERON...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...is naught but an egotistical shithead. And his films nowadays suck. He's the new George Lucas. That's what happens when you start believing your own hype.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:34 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by brightgeist

    like i just said, the Engineer can't breathe on the planet, but it can certainly hold its breath for a minute and survive taking in a few breaths of the toxic air while running to the escape pod.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:36 p.m. CST

    AND...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...Terminator 2 is an insult to the classic original. A complete about-turn in atmosphere and tension turned it into a family action movie. Shite. And True Lies, Titanic and Avatar are just popcorn shit.

  • Stop being such puritanical scolds. Of course Cameron is a dick. Of course most successful artists (from music to movies and everything in between) are dicks. Who gives a fuck? I don't wanna know these people in real life. You keep makin' good arts, whatever that arts am, and I'm on board.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:37 p.m. CST

    the cool thing is...

    by brightgeist

    i love all of Cameron's movies and he's a total genius to me, and nothing anyone on an AICN talkback writes, even if it's in CAPITALS and contains swear words, will change that! LOL

  • June 18, 2012, 3:37 p.m. CST

    BRIGHTGEIST...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ..."like i just said, the Engineer can't breathe on the planet, but it can certainly hold its breath for a minute and survive taking in a few breaths of the toxic air while running to the escape pod." And you made that up in your own head to cover a gaping plothole. Which is all the defenders of this film do.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:38 p.m. CST

    @neonfrisbee

    by brightgeist

    exactly.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:38 p.m. CST

    @johnny

    by brightgeist

    wrong :D

  • June 18, 2012, 3:39 p.m. CST

    johnnywrong...

    by Blue_Demon

    He could have worn a helmet then discarded it in the ship. We just didn't see it. If in say, a police drama, some guy said, "We'll be there in ten minutes" and they're a few miles from their destination, you assume they drove...but you may not see them driving, you just see them at their destination later. Sometimes, you just gotta think for yourself. Oh, I loved ALIENS. Fantastic movie...but it did have some pretty big plotholes which are unfortunately, unfixable...but who cares?! "DRAAAKE! WE ARE LEA-VIIIIING!!"

  • LOL!!!!

  • June 18, 2012, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Oh, and Cameron does sound like an asshole...

    by Blue_Demon

    but I don't call him a friend. He's just a guy out there in Hollywood who makes kickass movies. That's the whole of the relationship.

  • Most of my friends who are on their second kids are fucking miserable most of the time. Sure parenthood and marriage have their rewards. But they also demand pretty much all the time you don't devote to work unless you want to be aloof/absent in those relationships that supposedly define you.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:43 p.m. CST

    If only te

    by Cervantes

  • June 18, 2012, 3:43 p.m. CST

    @autodidact

    by brightgeist

    the MATRIX sequels have never appeared "convoluted" to me in any way. yes, they are complex, but i like that about them, because i had to pay attention and think about them to really get every detail. maybe a complex story simply seems "convoluted" to some people? ;)

  • June 18, 2012, 3:44 p.m. CST

    brightgeist

    by ltrain109

    Every movie ever made has inconsitencies. Prometheus included. I wasnt trying to point them out I was saying I enjoyed the movie even with them. Raiders of the Lost Ark is my favorite movie of all time and I could also point out inconsitencies there. Thanks for pointing out how that could work.

  • June 18, 2012, 3:44 p.m. CST

    BLUE_DEMON...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...list some plotholes from Aliens that compare to those in Pretentheus...actually don't. People up above already tried. And failed. There aren't any. I went into Pretentheus wanting to like it and was completely unable to thanks to it's myriad examples of terrible plotting. Aliens, on the other hand, held together then, and still does now.

  • I mean, hell, I'm not gonna list 'em all again (I think we've read them enough already) but PROMETHEUS had a whoooooole lotta strange shit going on with regard to out of character stuff, bizarre logic, etc... Keep in mind I really liked the movie, I'm just sayin'.

  • June 18, 2012, 4 p.m. CST

    HANDS DOWN...

    by treatment

    ...the greatest sci-fi flick EVER. if it appeared today in theaters for the first time... it would still be 10/10.

  • There is a press shot going around of the scientists together that has them all looking like they stepped out of the original film. Rafe Spall, Sean Harris and Kate Dickie are all too talented to have had so little screen time, though I feel Fifield and Millburn had juuust enough for theatrical cut.

  • June 18, 2012, 4:06 p.m. CST

    I FOUND THE MEDPOD SCENE...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...to be utterly ridiculous. Each to their own, mind you, but it made me roll my eyes. Ridley was obviously trying to provide us with a gross-out moment on a par with John Hurt's chestburster, but he fell WAY short. And he telegraphed it in a very early scene. And the CG was awful. And it's anatomically impossible. And...

  • haha

  • June 18, 2012, 4:08 p.m. CST

    3 Minutes

    by ltrain109

    Hey Wookie, thanks for that reminder on the 3 min. I'm guessing your right and that engineer could hold his breath significantly longer than 3 min. Not sure if you were referencing me but nothing about the movie pissed me off. I liked it. I'm thinking people just can't win in talkbacks and I need to slink back to work with my tail between my legs. Love both Alien and Aliens and even like the mood and some of the ideas in Alien 3. Got the Blue Ray Box set for fathers day. BTW my scout leader took us to Aliens when it opened because we begged him and he told us not to tell our parents. Was my first R rated movie and I loved it.

  • ...then the sequel comes along, changes everything, and then becomes the best sci-fi action film of all time. Then Alien 3 comes along and ruins the whole thing (Maybe at best you could say "best B-Movie" of all time"?)...

  • When asked if there was indeed an android in PROMETHEUS, Ridley responded, "Yes... actually there may be two." This makes me believe Vickers was the second android. And if there's a sequel (big IF), Theron will be back as the REAL Meredith Vickers... heh

  • June 18, 2012, 4:13 p.m. CST

    Ace of wands...

    by Plathismo

    ...are you James Cameron, posting under an alias? Seriously, though, if you take severe umbrage at Nordling's thoughtful essay, which is 99 percent praising Cameron's brilliance, then there is no hope for you. Also, if, as you say, not being a successful filmmaker invalidates one's opinion of film, then your opinion on Cameron's oeuvre also doesn't amount to dry shit.

  • June 18, 2012, 4:14 p.m. CST

    astronut

    by reflecto

    The rumor going around is that Theron signed for two films and that Vickers would return rebuilt, revealed to have been a droid all along. grain of salt.

  • You seem really proud that you didn't have a hard time following them. But you can't seem to grasp the concept that because you found them easy to follow, they are not convoluted. The only way those two facts are mutually inclusive is if you are stupid. So maybe you are stupid? Guess what, I didn't find them hard to follow either. But I did find them convoluted because they ARE convoluted. So convoluted that your average moviegoer couldn't follow RELOADED and skipped REVOLUTIONS.

  • June 18, 2012, 4:15 p.m. CST

    "because you found them easy to follow, they are not UNconvoluted"

    by Autodidact

  • June 18, 2012, 4:16 p.m. CST

    "not NECESSARILY unconvoluted"... my bad

    by Autodidact

  • It's already sinking pretty fast, I guess down 60% or something since opening just two weeks ago... Doesn't sound good. I am looking forward to the blu ray release. Hoping at least a couple of things become cleared up with 20-30 min of extra footage...? Hoping...?

  • June 18, 2012, 4:17 p.m. CST

    Maybe the pilot was also a droid

    by Autodidact

    MAYBE WE'RE ALL DROIDS

  • June 18, 2012, 4:19 p.m. CST

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    by Astronut

    "ASH IS A GOD-DAMN ROBOT!!"

  • If a studio can greenlight a sequel to a disaster like The Chronicles of Riddick, they can definitely do a sequel to a successful, planned franchise-restarter like Prometheus.

  • June 18, 2012, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Aliens were cannon-fodder in Aliens...

    by HB_Dad

    ...because this time the humans were armed and in higher numbers. The Aliens were in higher numbers too and Ripley warned the marines that only one wiped out her whole crew so they were somewhat prepared.

  • June 18, 2012, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Sorry PROMETHEUS defenders,

    by one9deuce

    but it's not the masterpiece you think it is. Is it smart? It definitely has some intelligent themes and asks some profound questions. But it's biggest problem is that Damon Lindelof wrote it like LOST. I'm sorry if that pisses some people off to hear that, but it's a fact. The story is a MESS. Every great movie should have a simple story as its core. Great movies should also have a lot of complex characterization, themes, and subplots that you don't necessarily get the first time, but the actual plot shouldn't confuse people the first time. 20 and 30 years after the fact I still find new complexities in movies I've seen many many times. But again, the first time shouldn't leave anyone confused. And anyone comparing ALIENS to anything like TRANSFORMERS is truly a fucking idiot. Just the motherhood theme in ALIENS alone is far, FAR more advanced storytelling than anything in any Michael Bay movie. ALIENS is structured perfectly, themed perfectly, acted perfectly (Sigourney absolutley earned that Oscar nomination), has great dialogue that we're still quoting constantly, a great rousing score, it is THE most influential movie of the last 30 years (just on video games alone) and is arguably the greatest sequel ever made. PROMETHEUS will be remembered on its own for a few more weeks. The only time it will be discussed in the future is because of its connection to ALIEN and ALIENS.

  • June 18, 2012, 4:44 p.m. CST

    plathismo

    by Ace of Wands

    well I'm not writing a column that uses that outlet to challenge Cameron's creativity. Nordling is, in my opinion and in what I considered a patronising way; so I am making comment on that. Sure, Nordling's review is fairly positive, although I'd like to see the formula that you used to prove that it is 99% so, but, lets face it, Aliens is a fucking classic and even a cinematic lightweight like Nordling probably wouldn't want to have huge egg on his face by indicating anything else. And if Nordling doesn't realise the massive creative and technical challenges that Cameron had to surmount in creating Pandora and making Avatar the success that it was is easily on a par- and then some- with what he achieved with The Terminator and Aliens then the word lighweight is ill considered by me and gives him far too much credit.

  • June 18, 2012, 5:12 p.m. CST

    Prometheus isn't flawed...

    by Baryonyx

    ...it's total, incoherent nonsense.

  • June 18, 2012, 5:21 p.m. CST

    Vickers must be one stupid android

    by Baryonyx

    There's a f**king massive spaceship rolling towards her... so she just runs in a straight line so that it can eventually squash her!

  • June 18, 2012, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Big surprise!

    by NightArrows

    Rupee88 is here to shit on a good film! The world turns and that waste of DNA doesn't disappoint.

  • June 18, 2012, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Oh boo hoo poor Linda Hamilton.

    by FluffyUnbound

    Are you people fucking kidding me? She got a $50 million divorce settlement. Marrying and then divorcing James Cameron was the best thing that ever happened to her.

  • June 18, 2012, 5:42 p.m. CST

    My only problem with Aliens...

    by Winston Smith

    ...is I much prefer the production design in Alien. Aliens always looked like a bunch of sets, and the boxy 80s sci-fi look has been copied so much that it's not as original anymore (even though it was a trendsetter), while Alien still stands out to me. I mean, 1979s Alien is far more visually impressive to me than even Prometheus which is a modern big budget film with a lot of the same designs. Both Alien and Aliens are great, though. And yes, even as a kid I always had some problems with Aliens and the timeline... they get word that they've lost contact, okay. So how long does it take to travel there? Because Newt has had to have been living alone all that time, even though in the extended cut there isn't any age difference when we see her before the attack. Also, they find fresh half-eaten food (like a donut), which makes it seem like the attack happened just a few years early. But the thing is... you need that for the story to work. They need to lose contact, and travel there. So it's a plothole, but it fits within the realm of suspension of disbelief. Unlike Prometheus, which had some of the worst characterizations I've ever seen in a "serious" film. The geologist, biologist and Holloway were the worst of the bunch.

  • let me ask you this: if a story is considered to be "convoluted" by the average movie-goer, but i myself were able to follow it and consider it to be complex but very engaging... would that logically mean that i am stupid and the average movie-goer is not stupid, or would it mean the opposite?

  • June 18, 2012, 5:49 p.m. CST

    You yourself said that convoluted != hard to follow

    by Autodidact

    If you don't find the MATRIX sequels convoluted then you are an idiot or a crazy person. Because anyone with any sense will tell you they are convoluted. it's an objective fact: the MATRIX sequels are convoluted. However, it's up to the individual's intelligence and story-sense, and partially their understanding of computers etc. as to whether they understand them. It's subjective. And to answer your (stupid) question: no, you have it backwards. If the consensus is that the movie is convoluted, but you found it easy to follow, you're probably smarter than average. People who are not smart (or who are dumb) will have trouble following a movie that is convoluted. Are you now able to grasp the distinction between objective convolution and subjective incoherence?

  • June 18, 2012, 5:50 p.m. CST

    You realize that convoluted means "twisty, complex" etc. right?

    by Autodidact

    The fucking word has nothing to do with your comprehension. it's a quality of the movies themself. They are convoluted! It's like not seeing the difference between a twisty road and a driver's license...

  • I don't know why I care so much about trying to make you understand this, or at least admit that you understand it (I can hardly believe you don't understand it.)

  • You fucking tard.

  • June 18, 2012, 5:56 p.m. CST

    @autodidact

    by brightgeist

    okay, thanks for explaining, maybe the problem here is that english isn't my first language. to me, the word "convoluted" has a clearly negative meaning, but maybe i'm wrong about that. the way you define it, it's a rather neutral term. if i had that wrong, i apologize for getting on your nerves.

  • sometimes i really wonder what kind of people are in these talkbacks. a civil conversation seems to be impossible with 99% of the people in here :(

  • June 18, 2012, 6:03 p.m. CST

    Best thing about Aliens, and possibly the rarest...

    by david

    Sequels are carbon copies 90% of the time. I remember being blown away by the fact that this was truly a different film altogether. I think its a huge compliment to Aliens that most people don't pick up on how many elements at the end of the movie are lifted from Alien (stowaway, blowing the stowaway out of the airlock etc). By then most people had been taken so far in a different direction that they didn't key in on those elements that the original also had. Die Harder is the opposite - an example of a great carbon copy sequel. They belong together in some weird Sequels Boxed Set Masterclass Collection. (Both went with rising star directors for the sequel too. Hmmmm - maybe that's a lesson worth repeating today.)

  • June 18, 2012, 6:08 p.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by brightgeist

    "And you made that up in your own head to cover a gaping plothole." no, i did not make that up. it is said specifically in the movie that a human would be dead after breathing the atmosphere on LV-223 for 2 or 3 minutes. so why would it be any different for the engineer? and yes, i am simply assuming that an engineer can hold his breath for a little while, even though that is not specifically said. is your theory that engineers can not hold their breath? what do you base that theory on? it seems a little unlikely to me that they wouldn't be able to hold their breath at all.

  • June 18, 2012, 6:33 p.m. CST

    BRIGHTGEIST...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...doesn't change the fact it's a glaring error. One of many that spoil the THINKING cinemagoer's enjoyment of the film, as evidenced by just about every talkback dedicated to it and it's plummeting ratings.

  • June 18, 2012, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Prometheus

    by yomomma

    Flame wars aside, Prometheus was a good movie. The main arguments I have seen against this is that it was not a masterpiece, and that it didn't create a whole sub-genre ore revolutionize film making forever. This may be true, but it is not a valid reason for hating the film. Masterpieces are rare, increasingly so in this day and age. It was an enjoyable and somewhat mind-bending monster movie. I would put it in the same class as 'Event Horizon', which is vastly underrated. You can sort of parse out what happened. Ridley Scott is a little overrated. He makes enjoyable movies, not masterpieces. Even Alien has some flaws and holes (how did it grow from inches to 7' without taking on any mass?) that were noted in the original crtiques, but that have been gradually overlooked because the film is just so damn beautiful and entertaining - see also Gladiator, Legend and almost everything else he's made. He even admits to being a commercial director, think Brett Ratner with some talent. Alien has grown into a genre-defining masterpiece, but nothing else he has made (I never really liked Blade Runner all that much) has ever risen to that level. Furthermore, Prometheus is a deep movie that appears to have a layer of somewhat cliche corniness painted on top of it. I'm sure that this happened in the re-wreite to make it more commercially viable. His original vision probably would not have been as campy, but it probably would have been a dismal box-office failure (as would 2001, A Space Odyssey in these times). The people that hate this movie don't seem to be able to see the depth beyond some surface flaws and the people who love it dismiss some fairly dismal film making. Neither is acceptable, so why not just enjoy the movie for it's own merits? It's OK to enjoy or even love a B- film "that could have been so much more" even if it's not. I actually like it better, because I happen to love B movies, and now I get the satisfaction of yelling at the screen when the characters act like morons and still enjoy the solid, BIG scifi underpinnings and imagery. There you go, a voice of moderation in our age of insane bickering. Flame away!

  • June 18, 2012, 6:48 p.m. CST

    reflecto -- Aliens Colonial Marines

    by lv_426

    I've always thought the Colonial Marines would make a good TV series. Maybe structure it a bit like Battlestar Galactica, with a single ship (Conestoga Class vessel, like the Sulaco) and unit of marines being the focal point. Or maybe make Gateway Station the focal point and have all the missions being launched from there. Start it out with the marines fighting rebellious colonies, or better yet, have it set during a war with a new breed of advanced synthetics who desire total freedom (shades of Blade Runner here). Then slowly bring the aliens into the picture near the end of the first season. Maybe make the last episode about some aliens being hatched on a remote colony, and attacking both the marines and the synthetic soldiers, forcing them to work together to survive. Make it three seasons: Season 1 would focus on the human-synthetic war. Marine units being sent to various outer rim colonies to quell synthetic revolt. Make it morally complex too, where some of the human colonists have sided with the advanced synthetics due to believing they are close enough to human to be allowed to be free citizens. There would also be the tension between the docile regular synthetics, the Bishop types that each Colonial Marine ship has assigned to it. You'd have the marines mistrusting their ship's android due to the current type of human versus synthetic war that is raging. Bring in the aliens at the end of the season, hinting at them being something important for the next phase of the story. Season 2 would focus on the W-Y and the marines continuing the war, but also getting into looking for the xenomorphs as a potential bioweapon. The synthetic rebellion forces would be doing the same. An interesting angle to explore in season 2 would be to have W-Y getting their greedy fingers into things, kind of like all the civilian and private military contractors that went over to Iraq. This would be an interesting angle to explore. The W-Y agenda sort of steering things on the human side of the war. More intrigue added in for fun, but without losing the action angle that the series should have be its core. End season 2 with a massive outbreak and infestation of xenomorphs turning the tide of the war to an apocalyptic angle. Season 3 would then be an Earth War scenario, with some of the synthetics joining forces with humanity to cleanse the aliens from Earth and other colonies. End it there. A trilogy with a clear beginning, middle, and end, but on TV. It would have to be on HBO, Showtime, or maybe AMC or Starz so we wouldn't lose the colorful language of your standard Colonial Marine Corp. unit. Also, the violence and gore would be there, and the show wouldn't work if tamed down for network TV.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:11 p.m. CST

    P.S. Phantom Menace > Prometheus

    by Rupee88

    And of course Phantom Menace is pretty f'ing lame.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:16 p.m. CST

    yomomma

    by Rupee88

    "how did it grow from inches to 7' without taking on any mass?" It had acid for blood. Maybe it ate steel or plastic or whatever the fuck was around? In the context of the story and film, it an organism of a type previously unknown and who knows what else it did that was unusual. That's not quite the same thing as a bunch of scientists taking their helmets off and doing every other stupid and inconsistent thing that is possible within a 2 hr movie. And yes Ridley Scott is very much overrated. He made Alien and Blade Runner a hundred years ago. Gladiator was not an especially great movie. He probably has a few other decent ones but none leap to mind.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:17 p.m. CST

    You know a movie is great...

    by Lawrence Jamieson

    ...when you can ignore questions like - How does the Alien Queen manage to get aboard the dropship through a door that is clearly too small for its bulk, and without anyone even noticing? Just how strong is Ripley that she can hang on by her fingers while the airlock into space is open just metres below here AND the Alien Queen hanging off her boot?

  • June 18, 2012, 7:40 p.m. CST

    Hitler...

    by Nordling

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3BV2u8YWps

  • June 18, 2012, 7:41 p.m. CST

    johnnywrong - Medpod

    by Mako

    If ALIEN came out today - the same could be said for how the ALIEN lives inside John Hurt (as big as is it) without Hurt feeling it or without the ALIEN eating or damaging his internal organs. Fanboys are not as forgiving anymore towards this stuff anymore. Everyone has to be so overly critical of the LOGISTICS of "that could never happen". It's pretty lame IMO. Cause you could nit pick ALIEN to pieces for the lack of reason or unanswered questions - and no one did back then. Because it's a MOVIE. A form of ENTERTAINMENT. Not a freakin' REAL LIFE non-fiction story. I roll my eyes at anyone who gets caught up in the "plausibility" of a movie like this - when they bow down to ALIEN. It's IRONIC and HYPOCRITICAL and therefor... I can't take any "hater" of this movie seriously.

  • June 18, 2012, 7:59 p.m. CST

    lv_426, you could do the show on FX.

    by Shermdawg

    Sons of Anarchy drops everything but the f-bomb and is fairly violent.

  • ... and it still sucks every bit as bad as I remember. It is literally fucking AWFUL. How anyone can have a high opinion of this abortion of a film is a complete mystery to me. Fucking wretched.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:24 p.m. CST

    ALIENS = badass

    by GeorgieBoy

    ALIEN is great in it's own way, but I've always just slightly preferred ALIENS. There's something very satisfying about killing those mofos!

  • June 18, 2012, 8:29 p.m. CST

    @mako

    by Red_Right_Return

    Good post. I've been trying to tell rupee88 and johnnywrong the same thing since last night. Unfortunately, its the same song and dance each time. Something about how smart they are and how stupid am I. I think they are the same person. Doesn't matter though, Prometheus 74% on RT, made great money, we can almost guarantee a sequel no matter what these whiners say. Out.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:35 p.m. CST

    Best science fiction--adventure movie ever made!

    by Clio

  • June 18, 2012, 8:40 p.m. CST

    What about Aliens in the Attic?

    by The Dum Guy

    That movie scared the shit outta me.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:40 p.m. CST

    Rupee88 Liked Jar Jar...

    by Red_Right_Return

    ANNNIEEEE MEESA NO LIKE PROMETHEUS!

  • ... is just plain ridiculous. I'm sorry but despite ALIEN not being "100% perfect," it is a far better grounded, FAR better realized film, a FAR MORE MEANINGFUL film than PROMETHEUS overall. PROMETHEUS has its plusses, no question... I really like it, in fact! But it has many minusses as well, so many in fact that it's not a matter of everyone being upset they "gave us too many questions and no answers..." no, the outrage is that the script and the actual events as carried out by the actors... the lack of basic logic and common sense in several instances... these are the things people are pissed off about, man. These things are just plain W-T-F, dude. It's beautiful and the premise is fascinating, yes. But it's got more holes than a lesbian orgy.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:54 p.m. CST

    IT IS THE SAME THING. LET'S LOOK AT SOME ALIENS PLOT HOLES...

    by Red_Right_Return

    Keep in mind, that just like you, astronut, I loved Aliens. I think its one of the all time best. Anyhow, I don't agree that its as solid as you think.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Minor Alien Plot Hole #1

    by Red_Right_Return

    A court of inquiry does not find Ripley's account regarding why she destroyed the Nostromo credible. The aliens are believed to be from her own imagination to cover-up from the fact that she destroyed the spaceship herself. But somehow, the death of the other six Nostromo crew members is not brought up. If she was in fact responsible for the destruction of the spaceship, she would also be responsible for the death of the whole crew and tried as a murderer. Hollywood legal court magic ? Yes.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Minor Aliens Plot Hole #2

    by Red_Right_Return

    Apparently Ripley can hang on to a ladder while a power loader mechanical-suit, an alien queen and the vacuum of space itself are pulling against her. It would be an accomplishment to last a second with any of those 3. When did Ripley get this super strength ? It's not the fourth movie yet.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:56 p.m. CST

    Major Alien Plot Hole #1

    by Red_Right_Return

    Hicks knows the aliens will breach their perimeter sooner or later, yet no one suggests getting to the other dropship until they learn of the imminent nuclear disaster. So they were just going to sit there for 17 days with next to no ammo and 150 pissed aliens trying to get in if the reactor didn't go critical ?

  • June 18, 2012, 8:57 p.m. CST

    Major Alien Plot Hole #2

    by Red_Right_Return

    Burke's plan was to impregnate Newt and Ripley while they slept, then sneak the creatures through quarantine in their stomach and jettison the marines in space. But Ripley and Newt would realize they were impregnated when they would have awaken with facehuggers attached to them. How would he hide that? Everyone would know it was him since he moved Ripley's pulse rifle out of the room, something facehuggers aren't prone to do.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:58 p.m. CST

    Aliens Retroactive Continuity

    by Red_Right_Return

    In the first film, a few drops of alien blood melt through several floors of the Nostromo. In this movie, when the sentry guns mow down several aliens, there is no structural damage/melting on any of them.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:58 p.m. CST

    Aliens Unaddressed Issue

    by Red_Right_Return

    Just how did little Newt survive for so long alone and surrounded by deadly aliens ? Most soldiers can't last more than a few seconds.

  • June 18, 2012, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Aliens Unaddressed Issue #2

    by Red_Right_Return

    The military technology at the disposition of all space marines is lacking even in our modern standards. They have no night visions, no armor and simply no technological advancement that would differentiate them from current American soldiers. In fact, Hicks uses a shotgun that is 200 years old, akin to soldiers in Afghanistan today using muskets. Was the defense budget of the past two centuries blown on spaceships and nothing else ?

  • June 18, 2012, 9 p.m. CST

    All posts above for ALIENS.

    by Red_Right_Return

    Anyhow, point being, any movie has plot holes and its Prometheus is really not as bad as people are making it out to be. P.S. I did mention I love aliens right?

  • June 18, 2012, 9:01 p.m. CST

    kgerson ... wasn't moniker on Friends?

    by DrMorbius

  • June 18, 2012, 9:10 p.m. CST

    shermdawg -- FX

    by lv_426

    Good call. I forgot about that channel. It makes sense since Aliens and the FX Channel are both under 20th Century Fox. Maybe they could film multiple takes? One take with f-bombs and harsh language for the DVD/Blu-ray releases, and a tamer version for cable broadcast. Same goes for gore and violence. They could hold on certain possibly offensive shots longer in an un-rated version. They could even have some fun and call the DVD/Blu-ray releases of each season the "Harsh Language Editions" for a fun reference to a line from Aliens.

  • But it's cool. We agree to disagree. I know. You really love ALIENS and that's good because it really IS a great film.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:15 p.m. CST

    @astronut Then just say its better!

    by Red_Right_Return

    You think Aliens is the better movie. That's cool by me. I'm still deciding which I like more. On the other hand, these internet haters using plot holes as an excuse to down a good film have no real foot to stand on. You either suspend your belief and enjoy the movie or you don't. People are going to enjoy some films more than others. Aliens is a shining example of the fantastic result of a movie made in two categories - science fiction and action. On the other hand, there are some things in Prometheus that deserve just as much credibility, and although it isn't as action-packed and fun as Aliens, it deserves much better than what people are giving it right now. Apparently the general public agrees - 74% on Rotten Tomatoes since it opened. If it was below 50% these haters would have more weight for their whining. Just saying.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Oh my God, reading this talkback is hilarious

    by lv_426

    dcut75 "If you disagree that's okay, you're wrong." Sounds like the standard Prometheus fanatic reply to anyone that likes Aliens and has any criticisms for Prometheus. I guess I'm wrong then. I also had my geek membership card revoked in the latest Prometheus talkback. I guess Rotten Tomatoes was right all along. Everyone loves Prometheus and they all hate Aliens. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1000617-aliens/

  • June 18, 2012, 9:30 p.m. CST

    @lv_426 Majority still loved Prometheus

    by Red_Right_Return

    What's your point? Anything over 60% is thought of as a decent movie, not bad by any standards. Example: Logan's Run: 68%. Great movie.

  • June 18, 2012, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Prometheus was kind of forgettable...

    by The Dum Guy

    In that, I was trying to remember what movie I saw last weekend and it took me a few moments to remember it was Prometheus. But, it wasn't really all that bad considering whats been released so far this year. Haywire and 21 Jump Street were pretty good... oh, and that little art house flick Avengers.

  • Maybe look up the word next time you wanna quibble over the meaning especially if english is not your first language. You dim bulb.

  • If you like Prometheus, you get to keep your science fiction library card. If you don't, then you have to turn it in and are never allowed to check out any movies, comics, or books from the science fiction library ever again. Science fiction is truly dead. Let us usher in the age of metaphysical techno-religiousity. Tech-rel can be the new sci-fi. Enjoy your tech-rel people. A L I E N -- hard science based horror/sci-fi film with cynical jabs at the tensions between working class people, who are all really pawns for big corporations who see us as data on a display, and not as real people worth a damn. The film's primary goal was to make interstellar travel and working conditions seem reala amidst a dread soaked tale of terror. It also was groundbreaking in that it used blue collar workers as the cast, and not scientists or Flash Gordon swashbuckling adventure types. ALIENS -- hard science based action/horror/sci-fi/war film and sequel to Alien. An examination of the effects of war and terror on a survivor, set in a future of interstellar exploitation brought about by runaway corporate greed and machine-like bureaucracy. The sub-theme of primal motherhood is what propels the main character to truly arc in a very satisfying way by the film's end. The corporate greed and subterfuge of the original Alien is explored again in the sequel. ALIEN 3 -- the hard sci-fi is nearly thrown out the window for a religious focused film about salvation and sacrifice. The entire setting is symbolic of hell, right down to the human Bishop coming in at the end as the devil to tempt Ripley with a chance at a life in exchange for letting the beast live. ALIEN RESURRECTION -- another religious Alien film, this time about those who play god with technology and genetics are evil, while those who don't are good, even if they are dickheads like Ron Pealman's character. Also, Ripley is a reincarnated being who has to decide if she will give in to her human or animalistic desires brought about by her DNA containing elements of that of the xenomorph. PROMETHEUS -- fully changes what was once a very gritty and believable science fiction universe into one whose rules and basis is dictated mostly by religion and mythology. Science is again seen as pure evil here. Not as a tool which can be used for good or bad, but an ancient evil that not only created us flawed human beings, but in the black goo o' life, as a foul fuel for terror unleashed from Pandora's box. Only the gods who have engineered us know well enough to wield the elixir of life. Chart the way that science fiction cinema has evolved, from the 70's to now, and you'll see that in most cases, religion and myth have taken priority over the actual science. Sci-fi is now just fantasy with spaceships, lasers, and cyberspace... and a conduit for mythology and religion to be explored. Maybe some social or political commentary, but even then, don't expect to get something like what Verhoeven did with RoboCop or Starship Troopers. That is too extreme for the bland times we live in. Is that bad? Explorations of myth and religion? No, but it is bad if it is the boundary of science fiction. Fantasy and superheroes have taken over now anyways. The only chance a science fiction film has at making a dent in people's minds is if it caters to fantasy and religion. True science fiction, at least in cinematic form, is truly dead. You can't have it be science fiction anymore, if all the stories in the genre HAVE TO BE SHACKLED TO RELIGION. Sure some science fiction stories can mix those elements in, but we really diminish the genre of SF if we make religion a requirement, especially when religious doctrine takes precedence over scientific concepts when the two elements are mixed.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:13 p.m. CST

    @lv_426

    by Red_Right_Return

    Good post, and actually something I agree with you on. Although I took something from Prometheus that you didn't. Faith. You don't have to believe in God. I don't. From the start these people are seeking answers about creation. Others seek fame and fortune. Finally, you have a man who seeks immortality. Shaw is shaken to her core of beliefs. She chooses the easy way out if you ask me. She jumped on that faith-wagon even though the evidence was in her face. Man is a failed experiment by beings no better than mankind itself. There is no shining God at the end. Some people will even call her decision to have faith in God a sign of character and strength. The engineers were playing God and fucked up. Man is the result, and we still don't know why they didn't erase us, other than their experiment went wrong on the planet...

  • June 18, 2012, 10:16 p.m. CST

    I can see the Alien saga remakes now

    by lv_426

    Alien remake -- Ripley will have a complicated backstory about how her father died while he was captain of a starfreighter when she was 12. She stopped believing in God then because of this. Now she hates the big G in the sky like Mel Gibson does in Signs. Aliens remake -- Hicks will be quiet and contemplative because he is very religious, and admits to Ripley that he almost went into the priesthood before he joined the Colonial Marines. Instead of giving Ripley the tracker bracelet, he will give her his cross necklace. Apone will say a prayer when the marines line up to file into the APC before the drop. Hicks will be in deep prayer instead of falling asleep during the combat drop. Gorman will be portrayed as an atheist douche who says he doesn't believe in God. Alien 3 remake -- Vincent Ward's wooden monk planet will get it's due!

  • June 18, 2012, 10:21 p.m. CST

    Alien minus the chest bursting would have long forgotten

    by hipsterism

    Alien was slow and unoriginal expect for the chest bursting scene. You take that out and alien is no better than Galaxy of terror. Cameron took alien and did what he did with Terminator. Remade the movie but gave it heart and better special effects. Alien 3 should have been a stand alone movie. The leap to getting the egg on the ship an getting into Ripley was never believable for me. The movie tie sold it better, but in doing so negated Ripley greatest act in aliens and didn't prevent Newt from being impregnated by the alien larva. When Newt died in the crash of the ship the larva went from her to Ripley. Alien Resurection just plain sucked by the story at least followed the alien canon. Prometheus was and is movie making at its worst. Scott might as well left the alien universe alone then add that crap There is little doubt Aliens is the superior movie of any in the series.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:25 p.m. CST

    lv_426 Almost all Hard Sci-fi

    by Red_Right_Return

    Has some element of religion. This looks more like you finding another reason not to like Prometheus than finding something intelligent to debate...

  • June 18, 2012, 10:29 p.m. CST

    @hipsterism

    by Red_Right_Return

    Alien 3 was terrible. The rest of what you said is complete bullshit. Alien was one of the best scifi ever made. You obviously weren't sitting in theaters when it was released and watching people leave because it was too intense. No I'm not just talking about the chest bursting scene. Intense doesn't mean gross, well maybe to you SAW-generation movie-goers. The heartbeat sound as Ripley is moving through the ship.. Not knowing when the alien would jump out.. THAT was intense in a theater. I don't even consider Alien 4 or AVP movies part of the Alien universe, but Prometheus wasn't either. I think you were just disappointed because you got bored.

  • A geologist that mapped the whole cave, but then can't find his way out, didn't even contact the ship that have the map for guidance? There are many more a film student can list them is one viewing.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Chestburster in ALIEN..

    by darthwaz1

    did it really need to open it's mouth and make that stupid chirping sound? that makes the whole scene comical. If they just cut that the tension would't have been cut.. that noise it makes is so lame it's like it's saying "Hi folks, I'm a Xenomorph!" then it scurries away..

  • June 18, 2012, 10:41 p.m. CST

    @lv_426- on point as always.@Nordling EXACTLY!

    by kenchun24

    "Even characters like Drake (Mark Rolston), Apone (Al Matthews), Spunkmeyer (Daniel Kash), or Frost (Ricco Ross) make an impression, and they aren't just fodder. I would never claim that ALIENS has better characterizations than ALIEN but I do think that Cameron thought about these people quite a bit, possibly even more than Scott thought about his characters in ALIEN." Cannot say the same for the set piece/action/kill fodder "characters" in Promtentiousness.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:41 p.m. CST

    @wadi77

    by Red_Right_Return

    Good point. I was too busy enjoying the movie to notice it though.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:42 p.m. CST

    Great article, Nordling

    by _Lizarkeo

    Thanks for the homage, man. Saw Aliens at the best age possible: the teen years (15). Like everyone else, basically I felt that Jimbo made the movie for me, heh. Best movie ever. And Dark Horse should totally release a collection of short stories with the best comic creators about: "My dream sequel to Aliens". My little fave story would be about Jonesy, the little shit-head cat, where he is adopted by some lonely and old LA detective called Philip Gould. One night, old Phil goes out and try to find his favorite can cat food...Will he succeed?

  • June 18, 2012, 10:44 p.m. CST

    I loved the sentry gun scene...

    by Joe Damiani

    It was nothing super efficient alien slaughter, until you notice the ammo count slowly dropping little by little, but the aliens keep coming. Then one gun goes dry, then another. until finally, silence...

  • June 18, 2012, 10:44 p.m. CST

    nothing *but*

    by Joe Damiani

  • Tron Legacy, Matrix trilogy, BSG, Star Wars, Prometheus... to name a few big budget science fiction movie franchises. I think this trend where the idea of exploring God and religion in SF is going to continue and skew things in film and TV SF far away from what a lot of people like about science fiction in the first place. Expect Star Trek to get very religious-minded too. Maybe even the one Abrams is making now will be chock full of religious babble next to the usual Treknobabble. Halo will be made as a big budget film soon I'm sure, but they'll add in a bunch of Christian theology into it to appeal to the masses. We'll just have to read SF books instead. Even there, in the current publishing industry climate, fantasy and young adult is going to overtake SF. SF is going the way of the western. There will still be some that pop up every once in a while, but it will vanish eventually. I think something like what Michael Crichton was known for, more techno thriller type stuff, will fill the gap a bit for those of us that want science fictional stories that aren't shackled to religion. Depends on where the country goes this decade. I personally believe we very well may be on the precipice of a merging of church and state into a crazy religious dictated society. The far right hates, no let me stress it better, HATES the left, even when the two sides agree on an issue, they must still hate each other. The left seem like pure fucking pussies who are going to give into anything just to still have some minor grapple on the slippery slope of political power. The whole system is fucked either way. Oh, and I'm not anti-religious. I see that my ranting might seem that way, but I'm not. I just don't think religion is the be all end all of worthy topics to explore in art. I'm obviously in the minority due to this viewpoint.

  • June 18, 2012, 10:53 p.m. CST

    lv_426 I agree with you in many ways

    by Red_Right_Return

    What you say is true. Science Fiction may be on the decline, and even in books. I'm not sure its due to religion though. It seems to me your point about young adult crap is most accurate. When my kids bring me Harry Potter, I give them Game of Thrones. My daughter shows me Twlight, I show her Brian Lumley's Necroscope.l I could go on and on about the political parties, but I think they are both pure shit and designed to completely distract from the real issues. All politicians are just looking to make as much money as possible for themselves and their interests (lobbyists). The current system is a failure and needs a serious reboot. I'm not anti-religious either, but I don't believe in it. On the other hand, I believe that each person has a right to believe what they want and I don't judge them. As long as they don't force those beliefs down my throat in return. I honestly didn't feel that way about Prometheus. I have met several scifi authors who would have done a better job on that script. Unfortunately, none of them are hired. Oh and everyone else is busy planning remakes of Twilight and Harry Potter. :(

  • June 18, 2012, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Look at this way

    by lv_426

    If you admit to liking: Star Wars (mythical fantasy with spaceships and lasers) Spiderman Batman Superman Iron Man Game of Thrones The Lord of the Rings Harry Potter -- You're cool. If you admit to liking: Star Trek Alien(s) Battlestar Galactica (ironically not true sci-fi but religious techno-mythology) Matrix trilogy 2001 A Space Odyssey Avatar (this one was only cool in people's eyes for a short time) Blade Runner (cool only among film nerds and cinephiles) Inception (this was the rare case where a film was universally hated by most, but still did well. I think a lot of people out there were just pissed that Nolan didn't hop to it and make another Batman sequel, so they partially threw a tizzy over Inception.) -- You're seen as a dweeb. Food for thought. The closest thing to science fiction that the masses can handle now is maybe another Avatar, and Iron Man. And let's not kid ourselves. The masses aren't very interested in Prometheus. Otherwise it would have made more. Even Avatar, which I liked a lot, used a very simple story and then had the newness of the 3D and effects and the love story angle to connect to the masses (Cameron is pretty smart in this regard. He knows how limited the perceptions and interests of the audiences are nowadays, and how narrow their patience is for anything that goes beyond the standard Hollywood formula). If nowadays a big hard sci-fi film devoid of religious themes or mythmaking came out in theaters and was a massive hit, I'd be FUCKING SHOCKED. Seriously. Fucking shocked.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:01 p.m. CST

    What if I liked all of those :(

    by Red_Right_Return

    There is a little kid in me that likes all of the above and the hard scifi guy that likes all of the below. Game of Thrones belongs below btw. :) One of the best fantasy novels ever written. Just because its "cool" to like it now can't change that!

  • June 18, 2012, 11:03 p.m. CST

    red_right_return -- sci-fi authors on Prometheus

    by lv_426

    I think Ridley needed an Alastair Reynolds or someone like that to help with the story for Prometheus. Maybe they could have balanced the science and religious elements a bit more, as well as made the scientist characters and logic of the story work more smoothly? Kind of like Kubrick working with Arthur C. Clarke on 2001. Kubrick, being the director, obviously deserves all the credit and praise he gets for that film, but I think the fact that Clarke was involved early on is often overlooked by many, even to this day.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:08 p.m. CST

    red_right_return -- liking both

    by lv_426

    Well, that is my point. Why not have some variety. I like all that stuff too, but we are surrounded by morons who have to indoctrinate others into liking what they like, and shitting on everything else. Also, it feels as if a lot of people are genre-illiterate these days. I honestly don't care if we have superhero films and fantasy films. I also like those, but I like sci-fi too. It seems we have to always have one type of artform or entertainment going through a period of suffering so as to elevate the popular stuff up to a higher plane of recognition. The point of different genres is to have variety, and of course it helps in terms of organization when you walk into a store and want to look for a particular type of story or movie. I guess my thought is this... how would people feel if religion was constantly hammered into their heads when they watch an Iron Man or Batman film? That is how I feel, as a fan of science fiction, when I watch most SF movies and TV shows these days.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:09 p.m. CST

    lv_426

    by Red_Right_Return

    Part of the problem is the corporate suits who want the movie to be "accessible" to everyone else. So they get the guy who write the script for soandso that made a billion bucks. Doesn't matter if the guy can write scifi. Alastair Reynolds would be a great choice, but some folks, I know its silly to say, may think its too complicated? One step down the hard scifi ladder I would seriously consider is James Corey: http://www.amazon.com/Leviathan-Wakes-The-Expanse-ebook/dp/B0047Y171G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1340078884&sr=8-2&keywords=leviathan+wakes. The tech in the two books so far highly matches that in the Alien universe. Believable, but not so hard as to lose someone. By the way, this is an excellent book.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:13 p.m. CST

    @lv_426

    by Red_Right_Return

    Good post. I agree. Have you seen that new show Continuum? Not bad at all. No Battlestar Galactica by any means, but better than most crap on TV.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:29 p.m. CST

    red_right_return -- Continuum

    by lv_426

    Haven't seen that series yet. I'll try to check it out. I don't know if it is available online, as I am not in Canada. The SyFy Channel airs reruns of a Canadian produced show called Lost Girl, so maybe they'll pick up Continuum too? Contiuum's premise reminds me of another Canadian show the SyFy Channel aired for a bit back in 2008, called Charlie Jade. It had a similar sounding premise, but dealt with parallel universes. Not surprisingly, SyFy (then still Sci-Fi) only stuck with it for a couple episodes before airing the rest of the series at like 3 am on Monday nights. Leviathan Wakes. I heard that one is good. I've been meaning to read it. I'll definitely check it out over the summer.

  • June 18, 2012, 11:38 p.m. CST

    lv_426 Continuum quality

    by Red_Right_Return

    The production values of the show are surprisingly good. The story is modern, involving super corporations in the future. I haven't seen any religion yet. :)

  • June 19, 2012, 3:13 a.m. CST

    Last!

    by batfunk

  • June 19, 2012, 3:24 a.m. CST

    My favorite part about this talk back is...

    by CaptainStimpy

    Johnnywrong doubling down on clearly being incorrect in many plot points. The boy is very consistant at being wrong and stubborn enough to ever admit it. Fact. I feel sorry for you.

  • June 19, 2012, 3:34 a.m. CST

    CAPTAIN...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...welcome to a new troll.

  • June 19, 2012, 3:51 a.m. CST

    It's a great film for sure...

    by Sigourneys_Beaver

    but some of the dialogue is so set in the 80's. Pretty cringeworthy and cheesy in places, but yeah can't fault much else. Not as good as ALIEN though. But then, Scott is a more productive, interesting and diverse film maker than Cameron.

  • June 19, 2012, 3:56 a.m. CST

    RED_LIGHT_RETURN & MAKO...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...Prometheus is a shit sandwich. It just is. I'm saying that as a 30 year fan of all things Alien and lifelong sci-fi fan, so I have no reason to dislike it other than the fact that it is POOR. Just like many other "haters". It's true that most cinema, indeed most fiction, requires a certain level of "suspension of disbelief", and this is not a problem for me. The "plot holes" you have dredged up for Alien and Aliens, however, are small potatoes in comparison with the gaping logic rifts in Prometheus. That, my friends, is a solid fact evidenced by the legions of people complaining about them. I wanted to like it so much. I saw it three times with different groups of friends, hoping that it would somehow improve. Nope. Same discussions after each viewing, mostly negative. Fact is, abysmal writing spoiled this film. Not the first time this has happened with Ridley, probably won't be the last.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:03 a.m. CST

    Greatest third act ever.

    by SpiceWonBruce

    Ripley is the feminist wet-dream.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:52 a.m. CST

    Anybody remember BLACK RAIN?

    by Autodidact

    This is a movie I rented about five times in the 90s... I fell asleep every single time I rented this movie. Something about the blackness.. and the rain.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:36 a.m. CST

    RedLightReturns

    by FluffyUnbound

    The company may not believe Ripley's story, but they also would have no proof of anything to the contrary. Not believing my story that aliens killed my wife is not the same as having legally actionable proof that I killed her. I agree with you about all of your objections to the Ripley / Queen fight. But it's a movie fight. I can count the number of movie fights that aren't nonsense on one hand. Why doesn't Paul Newman look ugly and disfigured for the rest of his life after the COOL HAND LUKE fight? Hicks thinks trying to get to the antenna to signal the other drop ship is suicide, so it's the last option. Burke is expecting Ripley and Newt to be disabled, and he intends to put them into comas. The Marines he'll kill. Ripley and Newt might know they're infected, but that doesn't help them if they're unconscious and unable to communicate. There's a dialogue line about the comas. They show evidence of alien acid blood damage to the colony. And I believe that one of the marines gets acid splashed on them. We don't see every instance of alien acid blood damage occur in real time, true. But the battle scenes are shot in such a way that you rarely actually see very much of the results of any fragged alien - the shot cuts away to a new alien before you can see what happened. There could be dozens of new acid holes out there, burning away after the shot has moved on. This is one of your more valid complaints, though. Newt just hid. There has never been a town sacked by barbarians where at least SOMEONE didn't manage to hide and survive. This one is pretty weak. As far as the weapons thing goes, the thing that has always struck me about science fiction is that the people who write it don't seem to understand that ray guns are actually a pretty stupid weapon. There will probably NEVER be an effective hand-held ray gun. It's a massive waste of energy. Propelling a projectile or multiple projectiles by combustion - i.e. a shotgun - is about eleventy billion times more efficient a use of energy than a ray gun. Frankly, science fiction writers need to realize that we probably already stand at the pinnacle of weapons development in two areas - our hand-held weapons and our nuclear arsenal. You just never will get enough of a marginal return on your investment to deploy ray guns or antimatter bombs to justify them. MAYBE a 'smart' hand-held weapon that shoots a projectile that can track a target or go around a corner will be worthwhile (they're testing one now) but I have major doubts that it will stand up to basic countermeasures, and it will probably also never be worth the greater per-shot expense.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:42 a.m. CST

    It's funny...

    by FluffyUnbound

    ...the weapons the Marines were using annoyed you, but to me they were a plus. I saw them and thought, 'FINALLY we've got somebody who's not stupid enough to believe in ray guns!'

  • June 19, 2012, 5:45 a.m. CST

    Quite right, Andromedus.

    by FluffyUnbound

    The overall tactical environment (with the cameras providing real-time feedback to command in the rear) is actually GREAT sci-fi in the classic sense - it anticipated and depicted a future development in military operations based on a set of technological advances.

  • June 19, 2012, 6:07 a.m. CST

    Batfunk for the win

    by smudgewhat

    Love is still the best thing going. Yes it is.

  • June 19, 2012, 7:20 a.m. CST

    @johnnywrong

    by brightgeist

    i see, so several people have now explained that the Engineer could either hold his breath or he could use a helmet and take it off before we see him, but you still insist that it's "a glaring error". okay, then you really can't be helped.

  • June 19, 2012, 9:34 a.m. CST

    there are NO plot holes in Prometheus....

    by Dan

    Read this....NONE.... http://thefineartdiner.blogspot.com/2012/06/great-betrayal-prometheus-death-of.html http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html As for Aliens, great stuff, but the hive mentality is irksome... but you could say they act like that when they are in groups; alone they'd be like the critter in ALIEN. Cameron at his best.... Terminator 2 is at his worst... such a terrible flick... Star Wars is fantasy, NOT SCI-FI!

  • June 19, 2012, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Ripley... Not A Mom.

    by Ethan Dussault

    The film worked completely fine without this reveal. No indication she was a mom in Alien. Correct? What Alien3 lacks technically it makes up for emotionally. Aliens was better overall but the sentimental crap was a huge detractor for me.

  • June 19, 2012, 9:51 a.m. CST

    totalreality

    by Dan

    Man some people are dumb.... this is not Lucas BS... The computer tech in Alien is crappy compared to Prometheus because its the first of its kind, brand spanking new for a brand new crew etc.... ALIEN crew is a pack of blue-collar workers they won't be getting the good stuff. The Nostomo did not look new. It looked old used. And since the Prometheus was new and a one of kind... My workplace still uses 25-30 year old computers... Hell, I can't get Windows 7 installed. The tech in Star Wars looekd the way it did because by the time Luke comes of age, the Empire has drained, eaten up and used all the good stuff. Every thing looked old and used because that's all anyone had access to, they had to make do with what they had. Think of Cuba pre 1959 and post, after the evil Castro... before the embargo it was a beautiful thriving country... Nowadays Cubans drive American cars from the 50's, patched and constantly in need of repairs because of the embargo- same deal with the Empire... all the resources went to fund the military. Not hard to figure out... DUH!

  • Not yet a money-grubbing, bean-counting corporation we later know as Weyland-Yetani.

  • June 19, 2012, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Nording, dude, you do excellent work... keep it up!

    by Dan

  • June 19, 2012, 10:06 a.m. CST

    It's amusing how The Phantom Menace is used...

    by Dan

    as the measuring stick for Prometheus "sucking," yet both films made tons of dough and both have solid marks... Point? so who hates Prometheus exactly? Yeah, exactly the geeks here and that's about it... figures...

  • June 19, 2012, 10:14 a.m. CST

    the technology in Prometheus is awesome because

    by IWasInJuniorHighDickhead

    it was filmed in 2011 with a much larger budget - which comes with the proviso that the film should appeal to the masses, who are used to seeing flash gadgetry and sfx money up there on the screen. You can retcon some kind of rationalisation if you like (it was a flagship design, or the SW prequels taking place in a more prosperous time) but I prefer to just accept that when you can film with modern tech, most directors/producers don't have the dedication to their art to resist doing this for the sake of a film's continuity.

  • June 19, 2012, 11:01 a.m. CST

    zodlovesmaude

    by dcut75

    The fine art diner blog was amazing, thanks for posting. I knew there was symbolism in the "I'll pet the serpent" scene, and while I don't know if I agree with the author entirely, it was a very insightful breakdown.

  • June 19, 2012, 11:16 a.m. CST

    My point is made..

    by Red_Right_Return

    I point out some ALIENS plot holes, you guys come rushing in to seal them. No different than those of us who love Prometheus. Oh and Johnnywrong - you aren't even worth having a discussion with. You think like Jar Jar Binks disguised as a Jedi. Come back when you have an actual discussion as we have constantly answered you with solid points. Bottom line - YOU didn't like it. 74% of the people at Rotten Tomatoes did. That's a solid majority for you, brainchild. It is making enough bank worldwide to plan a sequel. Life is good. Yes yes, we know everyone else is stupid because they liked it... Getting old.

  • June 19, 2012, 11:23 a.m. CST

    @fluffyunbound and @andromedus

    by Red_Right_Return

    Actually, they aren't MY points. They are from a website that looks for movie plot holes. Personally, I love Aliens and I'm not anal retentive enough to cause these questions to ruin my enjoyment. I was making an example between all the hyperbole of Prometheus and Aliens. @Andromedus - another insult? Grow up punk. Read my posts more carefully or shut up.

  • June 19, 2012, 11:51 a.m. CST

    Yep, Aliens is mighty fun.

    by Anthrax

    The film has its issues, but there are so many fun moments and memorable characters that most of them can be forgiven. Like Will Smith in I Am Legend, I can recite this and Alien line for line, from beginning to end. Not a huge fan of the Director's Cut, though. The Hadley's Hope stuff kills pace, the Derelict in Cameron's film looks actively bad, and I agree that the moment between Ripley and Hicks at the end, as sweet as it its, undermines a lot of the character development that had taken place before it. I do like the sentry guns. Those sequences were strong tension building devices, I thought. Although since I was little, I've always wondered how these sentry guns were able to mow down dozens of aliens with acid for blood, and not compromise the structural integrity of the building. In Alien, one drop of the acid blood ate through something like ten levels of the ship, and Dallas openly worries about it eating through the hull. It's a great, logical and detail oriented scene in the original. Oh, and I mentioned this in a Prometheus thread, but since it's popped up here, I'll go ahead and mention it again. I have a hard time listening to complaints about the intelligence of the characters in Prometheus, especially in a thread about Aliens in which nobody mentions that the space marines are practically brain dead. The lack of intelligence of these characters doesn't ultimately detract from either film at all. Both are still good fun.

  • June 19, 2012, 11:55 a.m. CST

    I savvy, Kid. You can't read.

    by Red_Right_Return

    I already said I liked Aliens, dickweed. On the other hand, the plot holes I pointed out are not "made up." They come from a web site that actually goes lists plot holes for many movies. Now, you little pretentious gimp, Aliens is a class-A science fiction action movie. While I consider it one of the best movies I have ever seen, it isn't the shining piece of perfection you hold it to either. Even the marines are comic book cutouts of real soldiers. You can continue to suck cameron's cock though. Finally, you can whine about Prometheus all you want, but 74% shows the the general public more than accepts it.

  • Are you serious? I love the film, but I know it for what it is. You've clearly over analysed it.

  • June 19, 2012, 12:06 p.m. CST

    @Andromedus - Here's your work of art!

    by Red_Right_Return

    http://www.moviemistakes.com/film40/page1. Three pages of mistakes and continuity issues. I love the movie, but get serious fanboy.

  • June 19, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Anyone who lays out three pages of errors in a great movie

    by NightArrows

    Let alone reads them, is a fucking tool. God bless the days before the Internet when fucking goblins like that didn't have a forum to spout.

  • June 19, 2012, 12:16 p.m. CST

    Aliens has more plot holes

    by donkey_lasher

    But is more FUN than Prometheus. In fact, most Sci Fi/Horror has plot holes if you want to find them. Star Trek has larger ones for example.

  • June 19, 2012, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Andromedus

    by Anthrax

    - Hudson is, throughout the film, essentially functionally retarded. He's supposed to be this films Veronica Cartwright, but Cameron wrote the character as being completely inept, even before he encounters any aliens. - Apone, the commanding officer and field leader of the platoon, wanders off in the middle of a fire fight for no reason whatsoever, and gets himself killed. - The marines, after being told that they can't use weapons save for flame throwers, proceed to collect magazines from everyone, and CONTINUE ON, into hostile territory, weaponless. It doesn't take a genius to say, "Hey, maybe we should double back and get some flame throwers. That way when we do run into some aliens we can actually, y'know, fight back." - Vasquez and Drake, despite the fact that they were just told that using their guns could blow the entire facility up, proceed to do so anyway, endangering not only themselves, but their fellow marines and anyone else who may happen to be alive as well. - Vasquez, after fighting the aliens and being forced to retreat, decides it would be a good idea to try saving Drake by using her giant gun to blast an alien no more than five feet away from her bff. She just spent the last half hour or whatever shooting aliens and watching the acid blood fly. What exactly did she think was going to happen? - This group of elite space marines leave their very big, very expensive ship full of guns and missiles and whatnot completely unmanned. The Sulaco is just chilling on auto pilot in orbit. I could go on, but I think the point has been made.

  • June 19, 2012, 12:25 p.m. CST

    @donkey_lasher BINGO

    by Red_Right_Return

    EXACTLY my point. Thank you. This is what they do with Prometheus as well. Hence, its bullshit. If I listened to the whiners you mention in your own post I wouldn't have bothered seeing a good movie. Aliens was more exciting than Prometheus. Its a better movie, but Prometheus isn't the trash that idiots here say it is either.

  • June 19, 2012, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Prometheus isn't the trash that idiots here say it is

    by donkey_lasher

    That should be the title of this article, for all to see. I can appreciate some people saying that they didn't think much of it, it's not their bag. Some people expected a different film, so were disappointed, like I was with Alien 3. I was pissed after seeing that one, but now I can watch and enjoy, and appreciate it a lot more. Harry was spot on when he said to not think of Alien or Aliens when you see Prometheus.

  • June 19, 2012, 12:40 p.m. CST

    @nightarrows

    by Red_Right_Return

    Read my post above. Maybe it will enlighten you and you.

  • June 19, 2012, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Ugh no edit.. Remove extra "and you"

    by Red_Right_Return

  • June 19, 2012, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Prometheus will be appreciated more in time

    by donkey_lasher

    For a comparison, look at Army of Darkness on Rotten Tomatos. 70% rating on the Tomatometer, yet the audience rating has it at 85%!! And remember, this film BOMBED at the box office in 1992. It had a lot of bad reviews.

  • June 19, 2012, 1:49 p.m. CST

    Trailer envy

    by yomomma

    The Prometheus trailer was too damn good. I knew it was going to be a problem when conversation after conversation regarding that movie in the months leading up to it's release kept coming back to how that movie was going to revolutionize the genre and be a masterpiece. Now all the haters seem to boil down to things that would easily have been forgiven in other films - like the crew taking off their helmets. How many movies have you seen where they do that. In The Empire Strikes Back, they go outside in an asteroid just wearing a breather mask, and in Star Trek they are constatnly beaming into strange alien environments without any protection at all. This is a filmaking trope, because no director wants to make a whole movie with his cast of expensive actors muffled by a stupid-looking space helmet. And I hate to break it to you guys, but people, even sceintists make stupid mistakes ALL THE TIME, even in real life. Read the history of the Manhattan project, they almost blew themselves up with an uncontrolled criticallity because they were in a hurry. You guys need to be more cynical - movies are usually 'good' at best, you should never be outraged because a film ISN'T GREAT, and human history is a litany of stupidity, look at ourselves burning fossil fuels as we speak to run giant internet servers to discuss for the 19th time how awful this movie was for not being flawless.

  • June 19, 2012, 2:02 p.m. CST

    @Andromedus - Prometheus is already appreciated

    by Red_Right_Return

    74% of the people on RT approve. That is more successful than: Logan's Run, The Phantom Menace, The Fifth Element, and many other movies we still talk about today. If it scored less than 65% you might be correct, but you are totally wrong, Andromedus.

  • June 19, 2012, 2:08 p.m. CST

    @totalreality

    by Red_Right_Return

    Statistics show your statement about Prometheus is incorrect. Back it up with some facts.

  • June 19, 2012, 2:10 p.m. CST

    Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?

    by Brian Hopper

    People need to learn what the hell a plot hole (and a plot) is. Aliens doesn't have any plot holes. A really, really well-written (and carefully written) screenplay.

  • June 19, 2012, 2:11 p.m. CST

    Denial is a funny thing to watch.

    by Red_Right_Return

    People need to realize just because they don't like something, it doesn't make their opinion fact.

  • June 19, 2012, 2:16 p.m. CST

    @m6y Plot Holes

    by Red_Right_Return

    The ICC hearing had been going on for "over three hours", yet it was never mentioned once that LV426 had been colonized. This seems entirely unlikely, since this fact would be extremely relevant to the hearing. The fact that people had lived on LV426 for years and had never seen an alien would have definitely been mentioned.

  • June 19, 2012, 2:17 p.m. CST

    SW not SF WTF???!!!

    by thedoctor28

  • June 19, 2012, 2:21 p.m. CST

    totalreality Well you aren't the majority..

    by Red_Right_Return

    Everyone I went with loved it. Seven people. Just don't come here making claims that aren't true. The stats show otherwise. You didn't like it. Get over it. Many of us did. And yes, Aliens does have plot holes. I know what they are and will be happy to point them out even if I loved the damn movie, but lets just get real.

  • June 19, 2012, 2:31 p.m. CST

    totalreality Since when is B bad?

    by Red_Right_Return

    Do you just hang out with the A.D.D. crowd?

  • June 19, 2012, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Stats actually mean quite a bit.

    by Red_Right_Return

    I've already shown you that. Seriously, insulting me doesn't make you correct. I could just as easily call you a fucking emo whiner who jumps off with his opinion because he reads social webs sites and wants to be like the rest of the sheep?

  • as a pointless observation, much less a plot hole. I've seen Aliens countless times, and never once have I ever thought... boy, the way they don't mention LV-426 is colonized in that hearing, and then Van Leuwen mentions it moments later at the conclusion of the hearing, that constitutes a plot hole. Ridiculous. When 90210Kirk gets dropped onto the ice planet in Abrams' Shit Trek and is chased into a cave where, lo and behold, Mr. Spock is... THAT'S a plot hole. That's bad, arbitrary, lazy writing. Aliens, by contrast, is a very carefully worked out and nicely written action screenplay.

  • June 19, 2012, 2:39 p.m. CST

    DAMON LINDELOF on PROMETHEUS...

    by DoubleFantasy

    http://geektyrant.com/news/2011/6/28/damon-lindelof-discusses-ridley-scotts-prometheus-and-its-co.html ...its official. He is a talentless, arrogant cunt. WORST screenplay I can ever remember seeing being made ito a film.

  • June 19, 2012, 2:40 p.m. CST

    Prometheus - $217M Worldwide.

    by Red_Right_Return

    Green Lantern - $219M Worldwide... up to now. Somehow I think you look kind of stupid now, totalreality. Green Lantern already has a sequel in development. Guessing Prometheus will make around $250M at the end. Yeah... Next?

  • June 19, 2012, 2:41 p.m. CST

    @m6y That is a plot hole.

    by Red_Right_Return

    You asked for one. I gave it you. Want another?

  • June 19, 2012, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Another Plot Hole

    by Red_Right_Return

    Apparently Ripley can hang on to a ladder while a power loader mechanical-suit, an alien queen and the vacuum of space itself are pulling against her. It would be an accomplishment to last a second with any of those, or just rip a person's arm right off. @m6y just because YOU didn't notice doesn't mean it wasn't there. PLOT HOLE: is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline. Note the part about illogical or impossible events?

  • June 19, 2012, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Now I'm a Plant...

    by Red_Right_Return

    So because I have a different opinion, like I think you're full of shit, I'm a plant? I could ask you the same fucking thing. What is your agenda? So silly. You don't like it, fine. Get over it already. Point being $217M is NOT a failure, especially considering its only been out a few weeks domestically.

  • June 19, 2012, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Already in the top 7 grossing RATED R

    by Red_Right_Return

    movies of all time. Prometheus. 1 19 The Passion of the Christ NM $370,782,930 2004^ 2 51 The Matrix Reloaded WB $281,576,461 2003 3 54 The Hangover WB $277,322,503 2009 4 64 The Hangover Part II WB $254,464,305 2011 5 79 Beverly Hills Cop Par. $234,760,478 1984 6 83 The Exorcist WB $232,906,145 1973^ 7 100 Saving Private Ryan DW $216,540,909 1998

  • Once you know all the scares in Alien, the tension is gone and you are just admiring the film-making. Aliens, however, is exciting every time you watch it, at least when the marines first encounter the Hive, and the constant whining of Hudson... "Game over, man!" "Why don't we put her in charge?"

  • June 19, 2012, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Its called summer movie season...

    by Red_Right_Return

    Word of mouth isn't doing a damn thing. Anyone who wanted to see it has gone. Some of us go more than once (like me). The summer movie season is the main reason. When they release the movie, its rating. Historically, rated R movies don't do as well in our puritanical society of sheep. It fared as expected against a family movie and would have been crushed by something even more accessible. Its performance is actually very good considering. Totalreality, I really don't have much more to say to you as you are just a hater. Facts prove you wrong now and time will prove me right. Out.

  • June 19, 2012, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Thank goodness for Nordling

    by THE GREAT FUCKTATER

    Re: "Now James Cameron can call all the shots, much like George Lucas, but he would do well to remember that setting up limitations for yourself as a filmmaker can be just as beneficial to the end product as an unfettered vision unlimited by budget or technology." ----------------------------- It sure is a good thing you're around to keep Cameron in line with your wise council.

  • June 19, 2012, 3:16 p.m. CST

    @totalreality

    by Red_Right_Return

    I don't like a lot of movies. Doesn't mean they were all shit. I didn't like Iron Man 2. I didn't like Spider-man 2+. Star Trek left me kind of blah. I could name more but whats the point? You don't have the same taste as me. Like, one of my favorite movies - people will laugh at me for - is Equilibrium, which got roasted on RT. Prometheus wasn't as bad as its made out to me. The only plot hole that bugged me was the geologist getting lost. It wasn't enough to sour the whole flick. Personally, I thought Shaw took the easy way out by jumping back to her faith. The truth is right in front of her. There is no God. Humans are a failed experiment by an alien race who played God and paid for it.

  • June 19, 2012, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Masks go off because...

    by Dan

    They took their masks off in Prometheus because their instruments said it was breathable... duh?

  • June 19, 2012, 3:24 p.m. CST

    dcut75- glad you liked it...

    by Dan

  • June 19, 2012, 3:25 p.m. CST

    How else are they to know its breathable?!

    by Dan

    This is not a plot hole, but a moron with a cement head.

  • June 19, 2012, 3:26 p.m. CST

    And the dude touched the "snake" because he was stoned...

    by Dan

  • June 19, 2012, 3:27 p.m. CST

    136 actually..

    by Red_Right_Return

    My list wasn't showing foreign and domestic figures. Still, we'll see where it ends up. In any event, its still doing quite well. The next two weeks have no substantial releases, so it should bring in more money. It will fall off the map in July.

  • June 19, 2012, 3:30 p.m. CST

    totalreality

    by Dan

    Dude, just stop. The Empire's military ate up all the resources and money. Much like Hitler's regime, all monies were poured into the militaries coffers. Ya know when you are drunk with power u do goffy things like that and it's not hard to accept that it was done in one generation... THis is why the tech looked used and worn in the OT... not hard to believe. Hell, look what was accomplished in Japan after WWII in a reverse effect.

  • June 19, 2012, 3:34 p.m. CST

    @totalreality

    by Red_Right_Return

    LOL it aligns with my philosophical outlook? What bunk! That was simply the message of my movie. Are you to attack my religious beliefs next? Please keep going, I find it rather amusing. Fact: B is considered better than average. Fact: 74% on RT. Fact: Battleship made a shitload overseas. Fact: 217M so far worldwide. Great for a rated R. Enough already to consider a sequel. Fact: You should change your name to "totalpessimist," "totalsocialsheep," or "totalwhiner."

  • June 19, 2012, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Madagascar 3 only beat Prometheus by $1 million...

    by Dan

    Not bad at all considering everyone and their retarded brother saw that awful fucking thing... (why?) For an R- rated flick PR has done better than expected.

  • June 19, 2012, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Totalreality seems to be doing a lot of projecting.

    by Anthrax

    Actually, lots of folks who hated Prometheus are doing the same. Strange. Also, I'll never get why people bring up box-office, as if that is supposed to be any sort of indicator of a film's quality. There's just insurmountable evidence to the contrary, I don't know why anyone would bother trying.

  • First it was "Its only tracking to open at 35 mil, therefore a failure." (Even though by Fox's analysis an opening of 33 or higher put them on track for profit) Until it opened at 50 million... Then it was "It will never make its money back in the theatrical run, failure." Until it was in the black in its second week of worldwide release... Then it was "It will never break 100 million in the U.S. therefore a failure." Until it breaks a 100 mil by this weekend. Are you really that desperate to label the movie a flop? Can't you still hate it from within your little bubble if its a box office success? I cant wait to see what the next invented benchmark of failure will be. Dont worry, eventually it wont break some obscure milestone and you will all be to say you were right.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:04 p.m. CST

    "People moved on from it like a bad meal."

    by Red_Right_Return

    Because they didn't want to be bothered to use their brain. They were looking for another Aliens or some action-packed thrill fest. What they got was a movie about.... Questions. Sure it wasn't perfect by any means, but it was a lot more successful than you give it credit for. I'm going to see it again this weekend with a couple people.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:12 p.m. CST

    What is Promotionus supposed to mean?

    by Anthrax

    There's either an egregious spelling or comprehension error, there.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:20 p.m. CST

    @totalreality Being Smart

    by Red_Right_Return

    Isn't about me liking this movie and you not liking it. I'm not judging your personal intelligence. In fact, I spent a night defending mine against someone who claimed anyone that likes the movie is stupid. That's a cop-out. The people with me had a great discussion after the movie. Two of them were programmers, one is a prison guard, one electrician, 1 a cashier at Target, one a phone support person, and finally a bank teller. We come from all walks of life and our religious beliefs (and in some cases lack of them) varies. None of them thought the movie sucked.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:23 p.m. CST

    @phantomcreepsreturns

    by Red_Right_Return

    If you live in Phoenix you are more than welcome!

  • June 19, 2012, 4:34 p.m. CST

    @wookie_blowjob

    by Red_Right_Return

    There are a lot of variables in this equation. Nothing's absolutely definite til it's absolutely, definitely gone (definitely gone). We ARE talking about a franchise here. One that supposedly died two times already.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:37 p.m. CST

    @totalreality Discussion After

    by Red_Right_Return

    First of all, we were in a car before we started talking. The only one pretentious here is you. Making all kind of assumptions you know nothing about. None of us have claimed to be the next answer for the cure to cancer... Sheesh. I didn't give a shit about this movie in talk-backs until assholes like you showed up because they are sheep that don't think for themselves. You saw that all your cool friends hated, hence you do.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:41 p.m. CST

    @totalreality Questions...

    by Red_Right_Return

    1. Who created man? 2. Is there a God? 3. Why were we created? 4. Should we even pursue the answers to these questions? 5. Is faith just bullshit? 6. What would you do if you met your creator and he tried to kill you? 7. If you met your creator would you STILL have faith there is a god above them? 8. What does faith mean? 9. Why did the engineers fail in the experiment? 10. Why did the engineers try to kill humans? 11. What exactly is the black goo? 12. Why did the engineer take the black goo at the beginning? Was the outcome expected or accidental?

  • June 19, 2012, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Still trying to figure out the Promotionus pun...

    by Anthrax

  • June 19, 2012, 4:47 p.m. CST

    @totalreality

    by Red_Right_Return

    So far all of your guesses are wrong. Except I'm over 30. You throw around these words like they are evil though. This means I'm a little more grounded than you and open to learning new things. Call me an altruist.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:50 p.m. CST

    One more thing @totalreality

    by Red_Right_Return

    If I was what you think I am, I would be a complete failure in my life. I have three kids who are all A students, one of them in a major college. I served my country in a rather dangerous field. I work for one of the biggest companies in the world. Come up with any definition you want, but I doubt you can really understand me.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:52 p.m. CST

    @totalreality Pot meet Kettle.

    by Red_Right_Return

    I'm actually the opposite of everything you might think, but from what I've seen, you are exactly what I think you are.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:56 p.m. CST

    So it was both.

    by Anthrax

    Got it.

  • June 19, 2012, 4:59 p.m. CST

    @totalreality

    by Red_Right_Return

    I called you a sheep because you put credence in the opinion of people on social media sites. Not because of your poor opinion of the movie. I don't really have high opinions of those sites, and most the people on them. It seems hypocritical that I'm even here posting, since this site is filled with many of those same people, but I've been coming here since the 90s. I have opinions on films. Can't help myself.

  • June 19, 2012, 5 p.m. CST

    LAWRENCE OF ARABIA > PROMETHEUS

    by MooseMalloy

  • June 19, 2012, 5:01 p.m. CST

    @totalreality Don't be sorry for anything

    by Red_Right_Return

    Nothing you said so far is even close to being about me. I can see you are a person who likes to clearly draw lines in the sand though. People like me, well we step over the lines. Something you wouldn't understand. Come back in ten years or so and we may have a grown up conversation.

  • you went ahead and provided a new 'plot hole' anyway. Because, you know, you can't shut up. And then you went an cut and paste the alleged definition of a plot hole from Wikipedia. Is that where you do all your research? It's obvious to me you don't know what a plot is. Because if you did, you wouldn't describe 'Apparently Ripley can hang on to a ladder while a power loader mechanical-suit, an alien queen and the vacuum of space itself are pulling against her' as a plot hole. Like most normal people, I find that short sequence when Ripley depressurizes the Sulaco exciting. I also find it reasonably believable. But even if I didn't find it believable, I wouldn't describe it as a 'plot hole.' It isn't one. Plot involves a sequence of events and their connection between each other. Read your Aristotle, not Wikipedia.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:06 p.m. CST

    @m6y

    by Red_Right_Return

    Where do you get your information? Doesn't everyone use the internet? Of course I copy/pasted, dimwit. You did not for one second change my mind about the plot hole either. Also, if you don't like reading, you can always get the fuck out of the discussion?

  • June 19, 2012, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Aliens is a great film. Prometheus isn't. Deal with it.

    by Brian Hopper

    And I'm not a Prometheus hater. It's a beautiful and fascinating but deeply flawed film. I'm in the middle group that's of two minds about it. By contrast, critical consensus puts Aliens near the top of every list of 'greatest action films.'

  • And I'm not getting out of any discussion, especially when an escaped mental patient (you) suggests I should. Aliens is a better film than Prometheus. That just tears the ass out of you, doesn't it?

  • June 19, 2012, 5:13 p.m. CST

    @phantomcreepsreturns There are plot holes in Prometheus.

    by Brian Hopper

  • June 19, 2012, 5:13 p.m. CST

    Aliens = one of my favorite movies

    by Red_Right_Return

    Prometheus = deeply flawed? Not really. Are there better scifi movies? MANY.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:16 p.m. CST

    Wait

    by Anthrax

    When did Aliens vs. Prometheus even become debatable?

  • June 19, 2012, 5:17 p.m. CST

    OK, do NOT try to make this about atheism.

    by FluffyUnbound

    Because if anything, the defenders of this film are the ones patting themselves on the back about their hackneyed spirituality. 'Isn't it great and mysterious to think about there being an intention behind evolution, and that there might be some truth behind the ancient religions, and that everything might be part of a plan?" The paranormal impulse is just frustrated religiosity. It is evidence of the same bad psychological and intellectual habits, and the same pathetic and weak set of mental needs. An atheist is more likely to look at PROMETHEUS and object to its stupidity, because they aren't desperate to assign intent to the universe in order to supply the illusion of meaning, and/or to justify half-ass gnostic speculation, and/or to show a 'spiritual side'.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:17 p.m. CST

    @totalreality hahaha.

    by Red_Right_Return

    I must strike a nerve in you. Someone you just can't pin down. Someone who dares have an opinion other than yours!!! Your only defense is to continually insult. I am seriously sitting here laughing my ass off. Are you going to call me a gay liberal next? LOL!!!

  • June 19, 2012, 5:19 p.m. CST

    What they got was a movie about.... Questions.

    by FluffyUnbound

    Unfortunately, they were the kind of stupid questions one of the jackasses who appears as a talking head on Ancient Aliens thinks are interesting.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:25 p.m. CST

    fluffyunbound

    by Nichole

    You are too intelligent to be in this conversation. :) I agree with ya. Please, don't make us think, Like Prometheus did.

  • Now who sounds like a pompous ass. :) The greatest minds in science and science fiction have been asking these questions for longer than you have lived. Do you think you have the answers? LOL. This is the funniest site. You can always find someone to entertain.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:27 p.m. CST

    @phantomcreepsreturns 'What are they, Smart guy?' .. In your ass?

    by Brian Hopper

    Seriously, it's one of the most plot hole-y movies in a long while. You can read about it on the internets. In spite of that, I don't hate Prometheus. Admirably ambitious and beautiful to watch. But that script is a train wreck.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:30 p.m. CST

    @totalreality

    by Red_Right_Return

    I see it now. The religious aspects of this movie scared the poor boy. A threat to his core of beliefs or something. Dude, its JUST A FUCKING MOVIE.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:30 p.m. CST

    m6y, lets say I want to hear them from you?

    by Nichole

    What are they, exactly? You sound pretty, sure of yourself. I'll wait, while YOU scour the internet for your thoughts.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Well said, fluffyunbound!

    by NeonFrisbee

    Actually, you've been one of the key driving forces of rationality on this thread. Well done!

  • June 19, 2012, 5:32 p.m. CST

    "You can read about it on the internets."

    by Red_Right_Return

    Brilliant.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:32 p.m. CST

    red_right_return

    by Nichole

    Earlier, I said thanks for your service. You are supposed to say, "you are Welcome" Seems like a plothole to me.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:33 p.m. CST

    totalreality, You are a dumbfuck.

    by Nichole

    That is all I got. Wow.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:35 p.m. CST

    @phantomcreepsreturns

    by Red_Right_Return

    LOL. You are welcome. I didn't want it to be about that because label-boy here would just find something about it that he didn't like. :)

  • June 19, 2012, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Don't Worry totalreality

    by Red_Right_Return

    Its in your nature to dodge questions that actually have meaning. We understand. Divert and insult is much easier. After all, why bother asking the big questions when you can watch the talking head on Ancient Aliens!?

  • June 19, 2012, 5:40 p.m. CST

    totalreality, You are a dumbfuck.

    by Nichole

    Yes. I'm an atheist. And I liked Prometheus. Go figure.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:41 p.m. CST

    red_right_return

    by Nichole

    Plothole solved. That was easy.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:46 p.m. CST

    totalreality

    by Nichole

    No shit, that is what the film is about. Did you just get it? Fuck, are you on meth?

  • June 19, 2012, 5:46 p.m. CST

    It would have been nice if this talkback had been about Aliens,

    by Brian Hopper

    rather than Prometheus fanboys lathering excessive praise on that glorious mess. Anyway, when in Rome... My biggest problem with Prometheus isn't the plot holes (which are numerous). It's that it's a poorly thought out ashcan of intriguing, discarded, half-assed and well-worn SF memes. Both Alien and Aliens are vastly superior films.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:48 p.m. CST

    @totalreality

    by Red_Right_Return

    Why does it matter? I've already stately previously that I am. I'm not afraid of admitting it. The labels you are fond of don't mean much to me. :P

  • June 19, 2012, 5:50 p.m. CST

    Both Alien and Aliens are vastly superior films.

    by Red_Right_Return

    True, although Alien is the best. It could be that it hit me a lot harder because I saw it when I was a kid in the theater.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:50 p.m. CST

    m6y, lets say I want to hear them from you?

    by Nichole

    There are a lot of them right? Give me one. Triple dog dare ya!

  • June 19, 2012, 5:54 p.m. CST

    SF memes

    by Red_Right_Return

    LOL, did you ever read Hyperion? The Void (Peter F. Hamilton)? Books by AE Van Vogt or Heinlein? Religion is always a part of science fiction. Even when its portrayed in a negative light. Some of the best science fiction novels have a plot with religion. World-building always has religion. It doesn't matter if you believe in it or not - its just a fact.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:55 p.m. CST

    @phantomcreepsreturns 'There are a lot of them right? Give me one.'

    by Brian Hopper

    No.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:56 p.m. CST

    M6y, here's some Aliens discussion for you...

    by Anthrax

    I think the battle scene in Operations in the third act, and the build up to that scene, is the best action sequence I've ever seen. The build up is the most tense moment of the movie, and then when Hicks looks up into the air duct... Fantastic stuff. And the battle itself is just brilliantly staged and executed. I really can't think of anything better.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:56 p.m. CST

    Remember Major Plotholes? What a dick he was

    by MooseMalloy

  • June 19, 2012, 5:57 p.m. CST

    @totalreality Hrmm..

    by Red_Right_Return

    According to many, that is not the message from Prometheus, the atheist thing that is. Isn't that exactly what m6y and fluffyunbound just said?

  • June 19, 2012, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Prometheus and its questions...

    by DoubleFantasy

    ... like the ultimate one... why was Damon Lindelof allowed anywhere near this screenplay. If, in the 21st century, anyone thinks that film raised anything new in the terms of intelligent science fiction... they are INSANE. It was utter garbage. I had more profound thoughts about life while stoned watching Jerry Springer. Dreadful, dreadful writing. And I had waited a long, long time for this movie. I'm embarrassed for it. Seriously.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:59 p.m. CST

    totalreality, Let me guess, you hated 2001.

    by Nichole

    Ya know, cuz it was about religion and cavepeople and computers and faith and origins and stuff.

  • June 19, 2012, 5:59 p.m. CST

    totalreality?

    by Nichole

  • June 19, 2012, 5:59 p.m. CST

    ARE YOU AN ATHEIST?

    by Nichole

  • June 19, 2012, 6 p.m. CST

    DOES IT MATTER?

    by Nichole

  • June 19, 2012, 6 p.m. CST

    Favorite Aliens Scene

    by Red_Right_Return

    The dropship scene. The tension and fear of doing a drop, reminded me a lot of some previous experiences I had. At that point I was in love with the movie. You had people throwing up, other people completely frightened and then you had that one badass... The guy who.. FALLS ASLEEP. I know a lot of guys like that.

  • June 19, 2012, 6:02 p.m. CST

    @totalreality I'm an agnostic and I didn't care for Prometheus

    by AlienFanatic

    As the late Carl Sagan admitted, it's difficult to call oneself an atheist because that infers that you have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that your point of view is correct. In the absence of absolute proof that god does NOT exist, it seems rather arrogant to call oneself an atheist. I believe god is a fantasy we've invented to reassure ourselves that death is not the end. Even Hell is more comforting than the end of our existence and conscience for eternity. But I think too many people are willing to embrace that point of view, too, without acknowledging that they COULD be wrong. (Even though I think that atheists are most likely correct.) But...Prometheus was a disappointment, even if you accept that we might have been invented by giant, albino space weight lifters who like to run around in robes and S&M outfits and play with jars of black snake sperm.

  • June 19, 2012, 6:02 p.m. CST

    m6y, lets say I want to hear them from you?

    by Nichole

    Why not, smart guy? That is why we are here, right?

  • June 19, 2012, 6:04 p.m. CST

    doublefantasy, you should hang out with totalreality.

    by Nichole

    It almost rhymes. Two peas in an ignorant pod. Yeah, Jerry Springer. Sure.

  • June 19, 2012, 6:07 p.m. CST

    alienfanatic, you should change your name

    by Nichole

  • June 19, 2012, 6:08 p.m. CST

    @alienfanatic

    by Red_Right_Return

    Being an atheist is no different than being a christian in that you have the strength of faith in your belief. You very well could be right. I'm likely a closest Agnostic with delusions of Atheism.

  • Consider me poked and man enough to admit it.

  • June 19, 2012, 6:10 p.m. CST

    @totalreality

    by Red_Right_Return

    2001 - now we agree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM3QUsBTQLI Listen to the second song for a good laugh.

  • June 19, 2012, 6:10 p.m. CST

    I'm a devout Promethiest

    by MooseMalloy

    I'm setting up shop near the scientologists on Hollywood blvd.

  • June 19, 2012, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Unaddressed issues!

    by darthwaz1

    Ok- did the company send the Nostromo off on a mission just to get the alien, or just to investigate the signal? If it was to get the Alien, then how did they KNOW about the Alien? Or did the ship happen to stumble upon the signal during it's mission? was Ash a plant just to find the Alien and make sure he got it back safely? or was the practice of putting androids on ships a general "company experiment" behind the workers backs and it just so worked out that Ash was there to make sure the Alien survived? was Ash in communication during the film, telling them about the Alien, during the facehugger stage and after? WTF? In Aliens, why did the company take 57 years to send people to the ship again?? knowing how important it was to them 57 years prior..did they forget? Or were they "playing it safe" after they lost contact w/Nostromo back in the day?

  • June 19, 2012, 6:13 p.m. CST

    I have a man crush on red-light

    by Nichole

    I'm atheist enough, to admit it. Fuckin' Prometheus Haters. Bottom of the barrel. Fucknuts.

  • June 19, 2012, 6:14 p.m. CST

    @totalreality Hal Cracking Up

    by Red_Right_Return

    I believe, and could be wrong, that he was given conflicting mission parameters. Protect the secret purpose of the mission. Protect humans at all costs.

  • on that one. That third-act operations sequence is easily one of the most intense and perfectly staged action sequences ever put on film. @red_right_return Love the dropship sequence also. Just killer. And one of my favorite fx shots in any movie ever is that cutaway shot looking upward at the dropship as it rapidly descends away from the Sulaco.

  • June 19, 2012, 6:16 p.m. CST

    darthwaz1 Good questions.

    by Nichole

    That is why I like Prometheus. Still talking about Alien. I think the company knew, in Alien, and sent them out as fodder.

  • June 19, 2012, 6:35 p.m. CST

    @m6y favorite Aliens scene

    by lightstorm22

    A very quick shot... right after Ripley saves Newt from the facehugger, she turns and we see a Xenomorph jump in her direction through some smoke, grabbing a support beam and then quickly leaping to the next. It just feels so real. For the record I hated Prometheus on many levels and Aliens is my favorite movie of all time, and I'm good with that.

  • And don't cite Clarke's novel, either. What in the movie tells you the Star Child's purpose?

  • Love that flick so much. I've burned out a bit lately, but I'm sure I'll be back to watching it weekly or at most monthly very soon. Just one of the few truly perfect Sci-Fi flicks of all time. That and Howard the Duck.

  • June 19, 2012, 7:43 p.m. CST

    I read 2001 before I saw it.

    by FluffyUnbound

    So I never had the experience of watching the movie without already knowing the story and the significance of each event. I knew that the Star Child was the next stage in human evolution, the same way that the proto-humans in the Dawn of Man sequence had been the next stage in evolution. I couldn't watch the movie un-knowing that. But I can see that you might not realize that watching the film, because there's no explicit dialogue (heck, no dialogue at all by that point), no exposition, and the movie omits a critical event at the very end, when the Star Child returns to Earth and destroys its space-based military defenses. (An event ret-conned out of existence by the sequel, of course.) So I think it's reasonable to say that the average 2001 viewer with no knowledge of the book might have found the purpose of the Star Child obscure. But I think the difference here is that there WAS an answer to the question 'What's up with the Star Child?' to be had. The writer had provided a specific answer, a definitive answer, that fit neatly with the rest of the plot and made perfect sense in the context of the other events of the plot. When you're dealing with this douchebag Lindelof, OTOH, you have to be aware that there IS NO answer, there will NEVER BE an answer, because he just made up a lot of unconnected bullshit and is now laughing at you while you waste your time and mental energy trying to make it make sense. Nothing will ever 'fit' because he doesn't care if it fits - in fact, he's figured out that he should try to make it NOT fit, because then people will bang their heads against the floor speculating on message boards and apologists will laud him for his 'depth' and his 'courage'.

  • June 19, 2012, 8:59 p.m. CST

    totalreality, You are a dumbfuck.

    by Nichole

  • My expectations were really low, and I loved it. Wonderful movie. The worst character was the boyfriend of the main character. That guy was a benchod so I was glad when he got what was coming to him.

  • June 19, 2012, 9:18 p.m. CST

    Good shit, ajit.

    by Jethro Bodine

    Did it make your lulla stand up?

  • June 19, 2012, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Benchod (n) : "sister fucker"

    by Autodidact

  • June 19, 2012, 10:23 p.m. CST

    @lightstorm22 I love that shot, too!

    by Brian Hopper

    Just another example of the great practical fx and Cameron's smart direction in Aliens. Actually, that whole scene seems perfectly executed to me. Another quick example is the sequence when the facehugger is trying to latch on to Ripley. It's so intense, the way she's struggling to breath, everyone desperately trying to pull it off, and the facehugger just incredibly menacing and real. Great stuff.

  • June 19, 2012, 11:22 p.m. CST

    My lulla doesnt stand up for alien movies or cartoon movies

    by ajit maholtra

    The last time my lulla stood up at the movies was during The Black Swan when those two lesbians ate each others phuddis.

  • June 20, 2012, 12:26 a.m. CST

    What caused the atmosphere processor to blow?

    by WWBD

    I've seen this movie twenty times. I re-watched the special edition today. And I STILL don't know why exactly the processor facility blew up. Was it, a) the ill-advised firing of pulse rifles by Drake and Vasquez during "the battle," the doing of which ruptured one of the heat exchangers as Ripley feared? or b) the drop ship crashing into the processor station? Ripley asks Bishop why he can't manually override the meltdown and he says the drop ship caused too much damage, this was "inevitable." That line seems to indicate that it was the dropship that crashed into the facility and irreparably damaged it, but this isn't really very clear in the footage of the crash. The ship mostly looks like it crashes in some barren rocky land. Anyway, some people above have been complaining that Ripley having the strength to hold onto the airlock while having an alien queen and a cargo suit attached to her leg was implausible. Well, first of all, the cargo suit is sucked out of the airlock almost immediately. She's never really holding its weight, just the alien's. Furthermore, as someone else pointed out, there's no "weight" involved, since there's no gravity. She's only holding onto the queen against the force of oxygen rushing out the door. Another thought: I wouldn't call it a plot hole, just kind of pointless in hindsight. Why does Ripley bother blowing up all the eggs in the queen's nest? She probably just let her emotions get the best of her, but there was a nuclear explosion going off in t-minus 3 minutes that probably would have taken care of those eggs. Best to spend that firing time making your way out of dodge. Finally, I had forgotten that at the very end, after the queen goes out the airlock, Newt hugs Ripley and says "Mommy." Total gut punch. Alien 3 is so totally unfair, even 15 years later. Fuck you to anybody who ever says Lucas raped my childhood. That honor goes to David Fincher, Sigourney Weaver and the producers of that unspeakable piece of celluloid. And by childhood I mean kid years in which I was watching films that were intended for adults.

  • June 20, 2012, 12:51 a.m. CST

    lightstorm22 -- aliens lunging and jumping on walls

    by lv_426

    It is a bit like an earlier shot, when Hicks and Ripley are in the elevator and an alien just lunges in from the ceiling. Holy shit! That was a great crap-your-pants scare. I love that whole scene after the air duct escape. Newt is trapped under the floor grating in the sewer. Hicks is trying to cut through with his portable torch. Ripley hears the motion tracker ping. Then the signal grows. Poor Newt alone in the water and then... the alien rising up out of the water behind her. Newt screams so loud it nearly bursts my eardrums (I bet if Carrie Henn had stayed with acting, she'd have had an epic horror film career with that scream). Ripley and Hicks kicking the floor in. Then a bit of calm dread as Ripley sees Casey's doll head floating in the water. Then back to the rollercoaster ride... into the elevator. The door starts to close when and alien lunges in. Hicks blasts it at point blank. Acid hits his face and armor. Ripley helps him tear the armor off. The armor drops to the floor, a big hole forming from the acid splatter. Just such a great scene, the way it is cut and just sort of assaults your senses. The editing and sound design all in perfect harmony, creating a volatile cocktail of suspense and adrenaline. We should note that that scene was done with barely seeing an alien. All we really saw of them was a few seconds of the alien rising up behind Newt, and then a split second image of the one attacking the elevator. That is how the aliens should be. They're so good at hunting down their prey, you barely see them, if at all, cause you're fucked if they are after you. Your only warning is when they are picked up by your motion tracker. Cannon fodder my ass.

  • June 20, 2012, 12:59 a.m. CST

    wwbd -- atmosphere processor damage

    by lv_426

    I always took it that the firing inside the atmosphere processor damaged it, but then the dropship crash and explosion added to the damage and accelerated the reactor's meltdown. I also agree on the Queen and Ripley in the airlock. The power loader is sucked out right away, and then even the queen is not able to hold on for very long. It isn't all that big of a deal. Maybe a bit implausible, but at that point I think the film earns it. It also isn't any more implausible than the Engineer in Prometheus not putting on the elephantine bone-suit to protect himself from the hostile atmosphere on his jaunt outside. So if Prometheus can get away with that, I don't see why Aliens can't have the Queen hold onto Ripley's foot for a few seconds.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:07 a.m. CST

    This was a white-knuckler movie if there ever was one.

    by Bartleby T. Scrivener

    The best cinematic experience I have ever had.

  • i literally can't think of any off the top of my head. speculating on the purpose and meaning of the starchild is where all the wonder comes in. will he transform mankind? watch over them? deliver a message? those are all the right kind of unanswered questions. as much as i enjoyed Prometheus its plot problems are multi-layered, implying that the creatives didn't think through all the plot devices that were thrown in the air. kubrick rarely made those kinds of mistakes (and i can't think of any in 2001), which is why he is rightly regarded as a meticulous genius and maybe also a relentless bastard.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:56 a.m. CST

    Smudgewhat, what are the plot holes in Prometheus?

    by ajit maholtra

    They may have been posted repeatedly at this site by now but I didnt read them because I just saw Prometheus movie yesterday.

  • June 20, 2012, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Winning does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    totalreality wins this talkback... ...is something no one will ever, EVER say. totalreality = totalcunt.

  • June 20, 2012, 10:16 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    lv_426, the scene with the alien lunging in as the elevator door closes and taking the shotgun to the face is awesome... then Hicks takes the acid spray. However it does rather remind the viewer that *oh yeah, these things are meant to have acid for blood* which seemed to have been forgotten about for the preceding hour of alien blasting action!

  • June 20, 2012, 10:37 a.m. CST

    @ajit - Prometheus problems (NSFW)

    by smudgewhat

    This will save me time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0&feature=player_embedded

  • June 20, 2012, 10:39 a.m. CST

    @wookie, again that's the beauty of 2001

    by smudgewhat

    you can go with starchild as metaphor and it works just as well as if you believe it is an actual being. that's why kubrick is the king. either way of looking at it (any many others) works perfectly well. that's beautiful. i'm not sure there will ever be a more profound space movie than '2001.'

  • June 20, 2012, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Prometheus isn't great, so deal with it?

    by theyreflockingthisway

    I don't really think Prometheus fans need to deal with it. If someone loves a movie, they love a movie - it's pointless trying to inflict your oppinion on them. You can point out things you see as plot holes, things you didn't like, why there's flaws in the script etc but if someone enjoyed it then they enjoyed it and you can't take that away. I have to ask why that's such a problem for most of you. Alternatively, it's also equally pointless to explain why Aliens is a good film to someone who didn't enjoy it. Even the most critically acclaimed films can be disliked - it doesn't mean you have bad tastes, you're allowed to enjoy which movies you want and that's what makes people different and interesting - it's nothing to be angry about and you can debate it rationally. As someone who likes Prometheus AND Aliens, I'm getting it from both sides here. Plot holes be damned - I enjoyed them, I'd gladly watch both of these films again. I'll watch any film I've enjoyed again - I don't have to deal with anything, I'm the one who is happy that I have some films to enjoy.

  • June 20, 2012, 11:53 a.m. CST

    theyreflockingthisway

    by donkey_lasher

    Well said sir/madam Aliens is better than Prometheus, but there's no way in hell that it's as messed up as some people here are making out. You either enjoy a film, or you don't. I enjoyed Star Trek, but can appreciate that its not half the film Prometheus is. Also, for me, the film flew by, and I wanted to see more.

  • Anyway, back to Aliens, what this Talkback was SUPPOSED to be about, I was wondering what Ridley Scott's idea for a the Alien Sequel was supposed to be. Anyone know?

  • June 20, 2012, 12:34 p.m. CST

    AHHHHGGG! Can we just get this over with already?!?

    by Monroville

    HEY! If you love PROMETHEUS, buy the fucking blu-ray. If you think it is okay, rent it. If you hate it, don't buy it. Does it really have to be any more complicated than that? Shit! The movie is built on nothing BUT plot holes and contrivances,but sure looks pretty. If you still like it? FANTASTIC! Good for you! Buy the blu-ray. Me personally? I think we should stick to this best/worst experience(s) when you saw ALIENS for the first time. Mine would have to be: (1) dropship drop (per the above comments) (2) the first reveal of the Alien lair (and you knew what was coming next) (3) the dropship crash (4) "Why don't you put her in charge?!" Sorry, but even watching the blu just last night, that line ALWAYS cracks me up. Bill Paxton, you may be annoying as fuck, but you will always be immortal due to that line alone (though it would have been funny if out of place if he uttered the "Game over!" line after the family house burned down in History Channel's HATFIELDS VS. MCCOYS). (5) the medical facehugger attack scene. (6) the first reveal of the Alien Queen (still pretty fucking amazing to this day). (7) "Fuck you Bishop! No, wait... Yay, it's Bishop!" (8) Bishop ripped in half and Queen lowering itself down from the rear landing leg undercarraige.... and the rest of the fight with a 2 foot tall puppet that even knowing it is a 2 foot tall puppet looks like a 15 foot tall living thing. But I will admit that even at the movie theaters the "queen falling from the Sulaco" shot looked pretty... bad. I never really thought about the armlock on the ladder and the Queen hanging on her foot until seeing ALIENS on tv. Funny how when you see a spectacle film on a smaller screen the more problematic issues tend to jump out a bit more.

  • Servo losses it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8kUgHsKWJc

  • And it couldnt possibly be related to the Prometheus movie that is a prequel to alien movies. No, that is completely and totally unrelated. Now back to talking about Aliens because some people havent had a chance to talk about it for 25 years. Thanks for the video link smudgewhat I'll watch it when I get home from work.

  • June 20, 2012, 1:23 p.m. CST

    monroville -- Aliens scenes

    by lv_426

    Yeah, the shot of the queen flailing as she falls from the Sulaco is not the greatest. Also, there was the floor hole mess-up when Bishop reaches for Newt to prevent her from being sucked out of the ship, and Lance's lower torso can be seen for a second under the fake Bishop body prosthetic. I also remember there being a goof up during the scene of the Newt's family rover approaching the derelict alien ship. In the background it looked like something came lose or maybe it was a defect in the filmstock. It was this black band on the left side of the screen in the background. It seems they fixed some of these issues on the blu-ray though. The whole queen reveal and later scenes are all great. I really love the various closeups on the mouth. Those sharp translucent teeth always freaked me out.

  • June 20, 2012, 1:29 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    The queen falling from the Sulaco fx does at least have continuity with the alien falling from the Nostromo airlock (ie they both look a bit groovy). However neither touch upon the AWESOME that is Dick Jones falling from the skyscraper in ROBOCOP!

  • June 20, 2012, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Aliens would have been better if it wasn't an Alien movie

    by Hive Mind

    As I said before, Cameron just fucked up the whole Alien thing. I like this movie as long as I can remove it from the Alien universe that Ridley Scott set up in Alien. It just doesn't fit. And anyone who's seen Prometheus knows by now, the whole queen aspect got blown completely out of the water by Ridley Scott, the director of Alien, and God bless him for it. Aliens is nothing more to me than Arachnophobia set in outer space.

  • June 20, 2012, 1:34 p.m. CST

    wookie_blowjob -- my point being that

    by lv_426

    both of those complaints in Aliens and Prometheus, are not that big of a deal. At that point, if either of those things (LV223 atmosphere, Ripley hanging onto the ladder with the queen grabbing her leg) makes a viewer throw up their arms in dismay and walk out of these films, then they probably were not into said film in the first place. I also would have loved to have seen the Engineer suit up as a space jockey, because that jockey armor/suit is an awesome design. It also makes sense that he'd do so, since he is effectively going into fighting mode. Again, not the end of the world, but it would have been great to see him all suited up. With the Ripley scene at the climax of Aliens, maybe they could have done it a bit differently. How about Ripley is still in the power loader after she falls into the airlock with the queen? Ripley uses the loader mandibles to grab onto the wall or something, then engages the airlock controls by remote. I could see this working from a realistic/logic perspective, but it also wouldn't have been as thrilling. Or perhaps it would not have been possible to do properly back in 1986? Ripley climbing out of the airlock in her power loader might have looked silly. It also takes away from Ripley's heroic character arc, if she can easily just stay strapped in the power loader and not have as big of a struggle right up until the last few seconds when she barely makes it out of the airlock and closes the doors.

  • Why yes Eddie Furlong, the blame can be laid on you for being the single worst kid actor- ever.

  • June 20, 2012, 2:17 p.m. CST

    ripley able to hold on because:

    by zom-bot.com

    the power loader and the queen have more mass. granted, we are not dealing with weight because there is a vacuum, but the change of air pressure does have force and that has an effect on mass. i wouldn't call it weight, but i'm sure there is a term for it. potential energy? inertia? dunno. and, didn't she have her arm hooked around really good? and she was clinging to the side. that part never bothered me about aliens, what did bother me was the marines talk of aucturian (sp) poontang (and how you couldn't tell the guys from the girls)one minute and then acting like they'd never encountered a alien before. you can defend and come up with an answer like 'they were sex droids' (there is no indication of that) or that they were extremely humanoid aliens (still- they are an alien race) or that they were just a far flung colony that welcomes outsiders (then still, the line about gender makes no sense)..but the conflicting statements about alien encounters are very jarring, and pretty close together too. It felt like the story was going to go into how many exotic species the marines had encountered and defeated, but then changed it's mind and acted like they'd never encountered beasties before.

  • June 20, 2012, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Who said the marines have never encountered an alien?

    by WWBD

    There is absolutely no indication of that anywhere in the movie. There are SEVERAL indications that they have.

  • June 20, 2012, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Cameron is a prick

    by shane peterson

    but he does make entertaining films(except for Titanic....that's a despicable film).

  • June 20, 2012, 2:28 p.m. CST

    wookie-blowjob - not following your "plot hole"

    by WWBD

    in the weeks between Newt's parents bringing the facehugger back and the marines showing up, 150+ chest bursters happened. what do you mean it took weeks? Do you mean the one of that lady who said "kill me?" right before the first battle? She was probably stowing away, hiding out like Newt, and was just recently captured.

  • June 20, 2012, 2:30 p.m. CST

    BTW - they are US Marines

    by WWBD

    In the first scene we meet Gordon (in Ripley's apartment), he's got a badge on his shoulder that says USMC.

  • June 20, 2012, 2:36 p.m. CST

    alienfanatic

    by shane peterson

    " Even Hell is more comforting than the end of our existence and conscience for eternity." Uh, not really. Because if we're dead, we're dead. We're not thinking...."ah damn. Im stuck here for eternity, which is what you would be thinking if you went to hell. There's nothing discomforting about dying and_______________________nothing afterwards. Because we wont be there to judge how it is. it's just the end of it all. What gives me comfort is knowing that what I'm made of will make its way into the universe in another combination somehow. As Sagan himself said "we are made of star stuff".

  • June 20, 2012, 2:40 p.m. CST

    wookieblowjob, that's not a plothole.

    by shane peterson

    In the film Bishop mentions the medical log and how the doctors at the colony removed a facehugger from a patient and it killed him. The doctor in the log noted it was removed before "chestburst" or something to that affect. So they were delaing with chestbursters for some time before the marines get there and the signal was lost. Also, the alien "nest" where all the colonists were cocooned showed people in various states of cocooning. Some, like the girl who is still alive, were recent, while other had already had their chests burst open.

  • I always thought the Queen was pumping out eggs with facehuggers as fast as she could, and just hadn't laid enough eggs to cover all the colonists yet. So they would cocooned to keep them subdued until she caught up.

  • June 20, 2012, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Prometheus>Citizen Kane>The Godfather

    by Lesbianna_Winterlude

  • June 20, 2012, 3:25 p.m. CST

    fluffy

    by shane peterson

    Well, if you think about it there's about what, 60-70 families in the colony and only Newt left. We also see the girl who is still alive and she already had a chestburster laid inside. So it all fits nice and neat to me.

  • June 20, 2012, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Fluffy- not all colonists were likely captured at once

    by WWBD

    As I pointed out, there were probably other stowaways like Newt, just not as good as her. Others probably fortified themselves pretty well with weapons and food but couldn't hold out forever.

  • June 20, 2012, 3:39 p.m. CST

    The score

    by smylexx

    The score always felt cheap to me. Pretty sure goldsmith went on record as saying that he didn't have time to write a full score. That would explain why the first bit of music in the film was lifted directly from 2001 and the main battle music is from wrath of khan.

  • June 20, 2012, 4:02 p.m. CST

    clearly one man's polt hole is sometimes he isnt paying attention

    by shane peterson

    .

  • June 20, 2012, 4:02 p.m. CST

    sorry pLOt hole

    by shane peterson

  • June 20, 2012, 5:30 p.m. CST

    Fantastic film but plot holes

    by Lane_myers111

    I absolutely feel in love with aliens in the late eighties and first saw it when i was about twelve years old. Loved the weaponry and technology. It seemed so realistically futuristic. Pulse rifles,Motion trackers and those kick ass guns vasquez and drake had. The scene were the marines enter the nest and get there asses kicks is one of the most adrenaline pumping and scary scenes in sci fi history. Also the Newt/Ripley trapped with face huggers scene is equally great. However fairly early on in the nineties i began to have a huge issue with the fact that there was absolutely no one left on the saloco when they went down to the planet. Its an enormous plot hole that makes absolutely no sense. And now i'm re watching it and thinking that it doesn't really stop there. This is maybe being picky but its crazy how unprepared the marines are when they have been told exactly what to expect. They have very good information that it is highly likely that there are 200 acid fueled eight foot+ killing machines with intelligence somewhere on this inhospitable dark planet. And yet they leave no back up on the salaco and they go in with an highly inexperienced command officer. Almost straight away they are presented with 100% proof that the worst case scenario has happened and that Ripley was definitely telling the truth. They have evidence of barricades,evidence of acid for blood,facehuggers with medical info from the colonists and a living witness. They then think its an acceptable plan to proceed into a terrible enclosed space which is clearly a nest of some kind based on what they've been told. They are also told that they cannot use their guns and still think "Hmm we'll go on". A huge plot hole is that the ship they arrive on is clearly of unbelievable significance to their mission as it is there only means of leaving the planet quickly. Yet they leave it pretty much completely unguarded (He could have at least had spunkmeyer fully marined up and still taken out). Once they get there asses kicked, the rest of the film makes pretty good sense and is perfect. It culminates in a breathtaking escape from the planet and every scene with the queen is mind blowing. Again i do love the film immensely, the whole look of LV-426,the characters, the action set piece scenes and the fact that the head of the colony was also the captain of Red Dwarf. But now wish Cameron had come up with a few ideas why they might be so unprepared. I mean if the company wants these organisms so badly at least give yourself a chance.

  • June 20, 2012, 5:34 p.m. CST

    After all that i go and spell the ships name wrong

    by Lane_myers111

    *Sulaco

  • June 20, 2012, 5:43 p.m. CST

    lane myers 111 those arent plot holes

    by shane peterson

    they're just you trying to be ultra logical towards movies, which sometimes sacrifice logic for the sake of good drama.

  • Dr Shaw wanted to fly to the planet of the big guys to find out why they want to destroy humans, and the only thing I can imagine is a scene like the end of the movie The Abyss. The only other possibility is that they want to kill us because of Snooki, Madonna and her chewing gum nipple, and Lindsay Lohan. That would be funny, but very stupid.

  • June 20, 2012, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Fair point Tazzman

    by Lane_myers111

    I know Tazz but i just think most of them are really really illogical. However I do leave all my problems aside when watching Aliens because its that good a film.

  • It's left unclear. Don't bring Alien 3 into it - the filmmakers of that turd made it perfectly clear they didn't really know what they were doing in many respects. But the fact that no one had come across the ship (or seen from a distance - it's really big) from the colony until Burke specifically sent Newt's family out there to find it probably means it was some distance away. Bishop says the blast radius will be about 30 miles away I believe. I could definitely see the ship being more than 30 miles away. The colonists have been there for years and haven't found it before. Then again, the way that Newt's family scene goes down, I'm guessing that was just a day trip, so not a huge distance away. And they weren't in exactly a speedy vehicle. Lane_myers - as Tazz said, those aren't plotholes. I don't even think they're illogical. 1) Alien established already that skeleton crews are used in this future for space missions. Almost everything on the ship is automated. 2) The marines are cocky. No one knows for certain that Ripley's xenomorphs are the reason they've lost contact with the colonists. Even when it's clear there's been a fight (they note the small arms fire damage in the walls of the colony and see some acid spills), they certainly don't know there are 150+ aliens. They've been on bug hunts before. Their equipment is impeccable. Even when they're told they can't use their bullets and only flame throwers, their computers are telling them there are colonists alive in the immediate vicinity. They're not going to abandon them and turn back. They're, as Hudson says, "the ultimate badasses."

  • June 20, 2012, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Special Edition pros and cons

    by WWBD

    The longer version is the better cut EXCEPT for the stuff on the colony. A) Kills some of the suspense, B) Those scenes just aren't very good in and of themselves. Writing's not great, acting's not great, we learn nothing new. The life of the colonists is MUCH better if it's left to our imaginations. I LOVE the sentry gun scenes and think they really help the movie, could take or leave the dead daughter stuff, and like the Ellen / Dwayne bit.

  • June 20, 2012, 7:21 p.m. CST

    ** from a fan of ALIEN since 1980 **

    by Monroville

    The Derelict may have supposed to have been destroyed (I can understand the plot device), but it is mentioned that the explosion would be 30 "kilometers" in diameter, which comes out to @ 15 miles... which would not destroy the Derelict, which was obviously much farther away from Hadley's Hope than 15 miles. Of course Bishop then says later that the explosion would be roughly the size of Nebraska, which would be a bit bigger than 15 miles. In regards to the Alien Queen and her offspring, I figured that the Queen was a mutated version of the first film's Alien, due to the colonists being so close to the terraforming plant and being exposed to low-level radiation. Mutated DNA results in mutated Alien, which becomes the Queen, which then produces weaker, different looking Aliens which exist to serve the Queen... thus, continuity with the first film. And yes, it "was" implied that the Alien was (nearly) indestructible, in that when Ripley activates the Narcissus' fusion engines, the Alien is hanging on for a good couple of seconds and is STILL IN ONE PIECE after it is blown away from the shuttle. You know, as opposed to being instantaneously melted.

  • June 20, 2012, 7:27 p.m. CST

    wwbd - Drop Ship/Processor Explanation

    by Mako

    Re-watched ALIENS a couple weeks ago. When the drop ship crashes - there is literally one shot - where a large chunk of it slams into the processor. It crashes into the same entrance area here Ripley drove the military vehicle out of. Because the shot is so tight - you don't get a glimpse of the whole processing station. So perhaps this is why you don't know why the processor is going to blow?

  • June 20, 2012, 7:28 p.m. CST

    As far as the colony stuff in the ALIENS:DC? I can go either way

    by Monroville

    The Pros: I think the acting is pretty good. Not shakespeare, but it doesn't have to be. I'd say competent. It moves at a good pace, and shows you the colony while it's teeming with people (specifically other kids). I like the rover shots, and it gives a face to Newt's family so when you see her in shel-shock mode, you can understand. It also leaves a mental image to compare when the marines show up and the place is empty and trashed you still have the impression of life in the place. The Cons: well, the pacing. The mystery. The slow discovery and natural build-up in pacing. Thus, I can go either way. I guess it is kind of like the DANCES WITH WOLVES:DC. I prefer the tehatrical cut, with Costner just showing up and the place is empty, and you have no idea what happened. The DC pretty much shows you and... it's kinda lame.

  • June 20, 2012, 7:29 p.m. CST

    (ugh) "theatrical" cut

    by Monroville

    you know what I mean (damn laptop keyboard).

  • Which is basically Scott's point for the whole exercise: to show how "the creature from ALIEN actually has human DNA in it." That is so fucking lame I want to shit blood. This is "Anakin built C3PO" with $250 million spent on it.

  • June 20, 2012, 9:54 p.m. CST

    zod who are you responding to?

    by Autodidact

  • June 20, 2012, 10:06 p.m. CST

    "the creature from ALIEN actually has human DNA in it."

    by Shermdawg

    No. This creature is not THAT creature. THAT creature already exists. But then again, given The Jockeys and humans share DNA, THAT creature does have it....but not originally, depending on the origin of the (encased) goo.

  • Look it up. It's lame as balls. Makes engineer Jesus look like a good choice (it's not either... why does everything have to be so hack/trite/lame?)

  • June 20, 2012, 11:19 p.m. CST

    "How do you know that?"

    by Shermdawg

    Because the derelict had already crashed on LV-426. Because the Jockey in that ship was "fossilized". Because the Jockeys were (supposedly) harvesting eggs to wipe out earth 2,000. Because they (possibly) worshiped the Xenomorphs given the mural on the wall and the suits they wore. Either the Jockeys created the Xenos, or they already existed and the encased goo, as well as the defense mechanism black goo were taken from them, thus making you question who was actually Prometheus in Prometheus.

  • June 21, 2012, 3:02 a.m. CST

    Ridley does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    To counter totalreality's claim that Ridley isnt as demanding anymore and (according to totalreality) likes to knock off at 5pm, etc... Here's an excerpt from the wiki entry for AMERICAN GANGSTER: *Principal photography began in July 2006 in New York City, in the Morningside Heights area of Manhattan; filming spanned over a period of eighteen hours from seven o'clock to one o'clock in the morning.[20] American Gangster was filmed over a period of approximately two months in over 180 different locations throughout the city's five boroughs; it set the record for containing the highest number of filming locations of a movie.* Does THAT sound like the schedule for a lazy film maker?

  • June 21, 2012, 4:41 a.m. CST

    the death of intelligent big budget sci-fi...

    by non-entity

    we are witnessing it and the ADD riddled masses are so blind to their own limited intellect that they are calling out Prometheus for being "dumb" and full of "plot holes". i understand that not every intelligent person will enjoy Prometheus. Some people will just not like the story elements ( ex. Chariots of the Gods ) or the underlying nihilism that is present. It is fine to not enjoy Prometheus, but if you think it is not intelligent, and you talk like your opinion is somehow the official consensus on the film then you are an idiot. Prometheus was not perfect but it was much smarter than most of the bubble gum trash released as sci-fi these days. There were no Independence Day moments of Macs interfacing with alien tech to save the world. Also, to act like it is a critical failure is simply not true. A majority of critics gave it a favorable review and it has a "Fresh" rating on Rotten Tomatoes. I am not going to sit and type out the solution to every "plot hole" because it would take quite some time and if you think this way you do not even have the ability to gain insight to the problem. A very simple example would be the Einstein that posted a "plot hole" being the team taking off their helmets even though the atmosphere was so deadly it would kill them in less than 2 minutes. In the movie it explains that once they enter the pyramid the Engineers are using tech to provide artificial atmosphere and lowering CO2 inside the facility to earth-like levels. It explicitly states this in the film, so how does this become a "plot hole"? It is too much to ask an audience member to listen to the dialog of the movie?

  • Everything else is supremely unnecessary. The colony scenes, as others have pointed out, actually hurt the film by blunting the later suspense when the Marines arrive. Yes, the DC is Cameron's "preferred" cut. Cameron also prefers the extended cut of Terminator 2 that includes, among other things, scenes of the T-800 practicing smiling. The man has some funny ideas, even about his own work.

  • June 21, 2012, 5:05 a.m. CST

    Me thinks thou dost protest too much

    by Timmid

    Are the Prometheus fanatics still at it ?!!! Prometheus is a 3/5 in my book. No amount of screaming by the fanatics will change my opinion or indeed the majority of opinions. Even the positive reviews on RottenTomatoes are to say the least mixed. The film skirts around some interesting questions but hardly gets into them in much detail. But the key point here that what the pro's want to label as the plot holes argument is nothing to do with plot holes at all. Its to do with the utter stupidity of most of the crew (and the memories like a goldfish) that is reminiscent of the Lost scenario of people doing whatever it takes to move the plot along. And because of this there was virtually no character that you could really empathise with in the film, in fact I'd have cared less if they all died in in the end. But keep screaming like raging adolescents that know they are in the wrong--shouting really loudly will always win you the argument.

  • June 21, 2012, 5:13 a.m. CST

    PROMETHEUS was fantastic

    by STICKY WHITE

    That black slime was some potent shit. Loved watching how one single drop of it just straight fucked shit up. It's like some super amped out weaponized biomechanical bacterial DNA mutating LSD herpe AIDS slithering walking running jumping ultra-cancer reality poison. A mega-aggressive viral primal life urge wildfire troll demon phylum fucking death machine in a jar. Do not open. What a nightmare.

  • June 21, 2012, 7:07 a.m. CST

    Maybe the sequel will be called PANDORA

    by Autodidact

    You heard it here first folks.

  • June 21, 2012, 8:15 a.m. CST

    I never really felt that they sold the dropship/processor bit

    by IWasInJuniorHighDickhead

    the processor is shown to be vast (look at the size of the dropship as Burke flies into it near the end) so it is hard to imagine it causing much damage. Most of it breaks off before it comes near the structure. It leaves me with some dissonance as to how big the AP is actually meant to be, and if it changed sizes at some point in the screenplay.

  • June 21, 2012, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Aliens is a Masterpiece

    by 5secondfuse

    A FUCKING MASTERPIECE. It's not as scary as Alien but that's replaced with sheer intensity. The 1st hour is impending doom and the after that it's just complete intensity until the credits role. It's probably the most action packed intense movie ever and it is Camerons GREATEST movie. It's got a great story, great script, perfect casting, great acting and characters that audiences will remember for years. Not to mention a ton of set pieces that are LEGENDARY. You simply can't get better than that.

  • June 21, 2012, 11:09 a.m. CST

    That black slime was some potent shit in The X-Files

    by CuervoJones

    Tekeli-li

  • There's a whole bunch stuff put out by Darkhorse years ago that all PROMETHEUS haters would love. Started to re-read the first ALIENS Darkhorse TPB and it doesn't hold up too well.

  • hmm is the dialog really badly written and acted??

  • Of course not, that's what David was for!

  • June 21, 2012, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Never got this movie.

    by Joeboyd

    Alien was orginal and terrifying when it came out. Aliens...just a dumb action movie with monsters. The movie completely lost me when one of the silly "Space Marines" makes a joke about a Hispanic woman being an "illegal alien". Would anyone make or get such a joke hundreds of years in the future? Cameron throws away all believability just to give the meatballs in the audience something to laugh at, just as he did in Titanic when Rose raises her middle finger in a gesture that no young lady (and not that many young men would have known in 1912). Cameron has no subtly or grace as a filmmaker; no sense of atmosphere. His work appeals to an arrested adolescent sensibility. Scott has made a number of flawed films but at the end of the day he is a director who knows how to create plausible worlds. When I saw Prometheus I felt like I was looking at another planet; when I saw Avatar I felt like I was looking at someone's black light poster from 1972.

  • The best way to kill a movie villain is to boot them out into space or splatter them on the pavement. Alien = blows the alien out of the shuttle into space Aliens = blows the queen out the airlock RoboCop = fires Dick Jones and shows him the window, and then the pavement Die Hard = Hans Gruber, a year later, meets a similar fate to that of Dick Jones

  • June 21, 2012, 4:51 p.m. CST

    Arcturian poontang

    by lv_426

    Perhaps the Arcturians are a humanoid alien race that were also seeded by the Engineers? That is why they could be anatomically similar enough to us Earth humans for sexual intercourse. If they Engineers have nearly identical DNA to humans, then why not? Oh, and the humanoid Na'vi from Avatar... also could have been seeded by the Engineers. Same with the Predators, who are more of a humanoid/reptilian species, were also possibly an earlier seeded race due to them having had more technology like space travel and energy weapons, much earlier than humanity did. Or maybe the Predators were like a mercenary force for the Engineers?

  • The only moment I can think of that might be misleading is when Hudson acts all confused when Gordon says "xenomorph." But I think that's because it's a scientific word, not something a grunt would typically use or hear. Arcturians could be aliens. Or they could also be straight-up humans. Maybe a long-standing settlement where the genetic pool was "talented," so to speak. Like they're mostly blond-headed and blue-eyed or something.

  • June 21, 2012, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Aliens is an all time great.

    by peter skellen

    A fantastic thrill ride. You'd have to have a heart of stone (or just be a miserable pedant) not to love this film.

  • June 21, 2012, 9:02 p.m. CST

    You all do realize that Aliens is "Starship Troopers"

    by Michel

    Love Aliens - But Cameron himself made the comment years later. He plugged in just about everything......dropshi