Movie News

The Kidd Vs. MEN IN BLACK 3

Published at: May 25, 2012, 1:24 a.m. CST

 

In the past, Will Smith really hasn’t done anything for me. With a few dramatic exceptions, the former Fresh Prince always seems to be in the mode of Will Smith playing Will Smith playing a particular character with his schtick never quite drawing me in. He's embraced the loud, obnoxious black guy act to superstar heights with the BAD BOYS flicks, INDEPENDENCE DAY, and, of course, a pair of MEN IN BLACK films. He’s been able to do more with the routine than the likes of Chris Tucker and Martin Lawrence, who also have been forced into this similar persona that I guess is how mainstream audiences see African-American actors.   However, that doesn’t mean I have to like it. Due to this grating personality, I’m not a fan of the previous two MEN IN BLACK movies. The first one I thought was okay, nothing special, but it was Smith’s rookie Agent J that overshadowed the few things that did work. The more time I spent with J and away from the alien creations of Rick Baker, the less I enjoyed the film. MEN IN BLACK II was more of the same, only with less engaging story work and the irritating Will Smith tone kicked into a higher gear.  But something funny happened on my way through MEN IN BLACK 3… I noticed that a more mature Will Smith wasn’t relying on the crutch of constant one-liners (a “pimp slap the shiznit” does sneak its way onto the scene, but you can’t expect to take all the West Philadelphia out of the man). I noticed that the comedy was taking a back seat to the sci-fi. I noticed that I was actually having a good time… and it was happening by the reduction of the very things that I couldn’t stand about the previous two. The reasons I found myself liking MEN IN BLACK 3 was because it felt like the anti-MEN IN BLACK. Maybe you can teach an old dog some new tricks.

It’s been 10 years since the Men in Black last had to save the world, and yet only a little bit has changed. Agent K (Tommy Lee Jones) is still the same surly, mean son of a bitch he’s always been. It’s just gotten a bit worse with the aging process. Zed’s dead – Who knew I’d ever have the chance to write that again? – and he’s been replaced by Agent O (Emma Thompson) as the head of MIB, and Smith’s Agent J is a little bit older, a little wiser and a little more seasoned as an MIB veteran who’s seen some shit. K and J remain partners, no closer as friends, still investigated the same extraterrestrial activity on a daily basis. Their existence has become rather mundane until the revenge-minded space criminal Boris (Don’t call him “The Animal”), played by Jemaine Clement, escapes from Lunar Max prison where he was put more than 40 years ago by a young K for multiple murders. Boris hasn’t been able to forget that he’s lost his arm, so, rather than make his way to Earth for vengeance against an older, less spry K, he plans to travel back in time to 1969 to kill K, retain his arm for the future and prevent the protective ArcNet shielf from ever being implemented, allowing his Boglodites to invade, destroy and take over. That means it’s going to be up to Agent J to prevent that from happening by going back in time himself to stop both old Boris and new Boris from changing the time-space continuum.

Because J is now the one driving the action of the film and not necessarily the comic relief to play off the more stern K, it’s a different side of Will Smith than the series has shown. J may remain curious about the things out there that he might not need to know, but he realizes there’s a much different approach to getting the answers he seeks. It’s not through attitude; it’s by detective work, knowledge and experience.  This isn’t the kid Will Smith that we started with. He’s been replaced by Will Smith, the grown man, and MEN IN BLACK 3 is a better film because of it. There’s an emotional connection between J and K that exists, even if Tommy Lee Jones tries his hardest to stop it from settling in for the audience. After all, it’s a bit difficult to see why J would have any sort of love for this man who barely utters two words to him while driving between assignments.

That’s where Josh Brolin comes in, breathing fresh air into the MEN IN BLACK series as the younger version of K, the optimistic and less grizzled one who has a charm and likeability to him that elevates the J-K relationship beyond just partners, but to people you could genuinely see as friends. Brolin is fantastic in MEN IN BLACK 3, out-Tommy Lee Jonesing Tommy Lee Jones, while adding warmth to the character. At first, Brolin’s Jones impression feels gimmicky, as if the fact that he’s not really Tommy Lee Jones will be what’s played up for the film’s laughs. But he’s able to sink into the role quite easily, reenergizing the chemistry between the two. With the reined-in Smith no longer getting in the way, it allows a true examination of their dynamic, which leads to an interesting exploration of K’s back story, namely how he ended up as Jones plays him, but it also leaves room for the story to actually contain some emotion and real stakes, making for both an entertaining and exciting third act where anything seems possible and no one is necessarily safe.

  

Even with Brolin turning in a strong performance and Smith a much improved one, it’s Michael Stuhlbarg who steals the movie. As Griffin, a target of Boris who holds the key to the ArcNet, Stuhlbarg’s peculiarity as an alien with the ability to see the future creates all sorts of options for a film built on the idea of time travel. There’s a sweetness about Griffin, who wears a mix of pajamas and winter wear, as someone who hopes things always turn out okay, even though he can see that that’s not always the case. Griffin has the unique ability to see many different futures, with the most trivial moment or effect triggering a domino effect of things to follow, all of which he’s seen as happening yet not knowing which would become realities until they occur. It’s in Griffin that Etan Cohen’s script really shows the most bite, briskly moving back and forth among Griffin’s visions and the details which they’re built on. Furthermore, this is where director Barry Sonnenfeld deserves the most credit. Navigating alternate timelines and futures isn’t the easiest task, and yet Sonnenfeld is able to keep MEN IN BLACK 3 together as he brings the film through a minefield of disaster, where the slightest deviation from a difficult set-up could collapse the entire story.

It took the MEN IN BLACK series a few films to finally get the formula right, and, even then, they had to go back in time to before the original MEN IN BLACK even happened, but MEN IN BLACK 3 is the most watchable and fun of the franchise. That may not be the case for everyone, particularly those who have an affinity for the first film, but, as someone who wasn’t excited by anything MEN IN BLACK offered up previously, MEN IN BLACK 3 is the best of the three. 

 

-Billy Donnelly

"The Infamous Billy The Kidd"

BillyTheKidd@aintitcool.com

Follow me on Twitter.

Readers Talkback

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  • May 25, 2012, 1:29 a.m. CST

    Yes, but how was MIB 4?

    by wackybantha

    That's the real question?

  • May 25, 2012, 1:29 a.m. CST

    i think i might like this one too. didn't like the 1rst 2.

    by DarthBlart

  • May 25, 2012, 1:29 a.m. CST

    would rather a more serious, less special fx reliant, reboot.

    by DarthBlart

  • I hope that doesn't mean I have a 'toomah'

  • May 25, 2012, 1:46 a.m. CST

    loud obnoxious BLACK guy....hmm racism

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    wow, the kidd is racist. no wonder i liked him sure, have any negative thoughts about will smith, but to include his race in it makes it seem youre just racist... please fire him aicn.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:50 a.m. CST

    so MIB3 is better than the 2nd? I'm there.

    by Chris

  • May 25, 2012, 1:50 a.m. CST

    loud, obnoxious black guy

    by rakesh patel

    3 was shit its been a while since a will smith summer action vehicle, not entirely sure this will get a look in amongst everything else. Brolin looks good as tommy lee. tommy lee looks his age and then some. loud obnoxious black guy? i always thought he played likable black guy. how many loud obnoxious black guys do you know kidd?

  • May 25, 2012, 1:58 a.m. CST

    This article made me uncomfortable

    by irc-Hollywood

    Loud obnoxious black guy! Will smith! Chris tucker tucker! Martin Lawrence! How many others do you want to throw under this umbrella? Am I the only one that sensed a lot of aggression from this article? Makes for very uncomfortable reading... Not cool, not cool at all.... I suppose your a fan of those more educated negros? Like densel Washington and Morgan freeman? Erm....

  • May 25, 2012, 2:03 a.m. CST

    Racism so thick you could cut it with a knife

    by Ashs_Right_Hand

    That first paragraph read as the most passive aggressive racism I've ever seen. Basically, "I hated the first MIB movies because of the loud, aggressive negro." And the West Philly remark? "You can take the black kid outta the ghetto but not the ghetto outta the black kid". Youre the worst Kidd. The worst.

  • May 25, 2012, 2:06 a.m. CST

    this week has been aicn most racist week

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    do yourself a favor harry, get rid of the childd... he is utterly useless

  • May 25, 2012, 2:20 a.m. CST

    Hold it down, hold it down! calm down everyone.

    by rakesh patel

    Six Degrees of Separation, Enemy of the State, Ali I, Robot, The Pursuit of Happyness, I Am Legend must be the exceptions. but then again... he did play a black guy in those movies. .maybe he needs to play Genghis khan in his next movie to widen his range.

  • you know, some people just thought Will Smith was a fun hyper active comedic personality... kind of like Jim Carey, who was also launching into super stardom at the time. but, okay, for you, the kidd, he was just being an annoying black stereo type. you know, it's 2012 not 1969, right? you don't have to damn a black person with praise to excuse yourself for liking their work. dumb shit

  • May 25, 2012, 2:28 a.m. CST

    Yeah, I have to admit, reading this article I had the feeling...

    by Gabe Athouse

    ...you get when you suddenly discover the person talking to you is a racist, but you know there's no point in arguing with them so you just smirk and nod noncommittally. Kidd, seriously - is the fact that he's black what you didn't like about him? Do you prefer loud obnoxious white guys?

  • http://goo.gl/Qu8eY

  • you are just asking to be a bad headline on some tabloid website like HuffingtonPost

  • May 25, 2012, 2:38 a.m. CST

    I'm Latino...

    by topaz4206

    and this article still gave me douche chills. Sincerely, --Obnoxious Latino Guy

  • ...a completely utterly useless and untalented individual with wuite possibly the highest order of ineptitude to ever hit the silver screen, even as a rapper he was lame and it was the DJ (jazzy Jeff) who was more skilled of the two. To conclude, Will Smith has earned his millions by simply being a waste of time, so much so, that he's not even worth the waste! Fuck off Will Smith

  • May 25, 2012, 2:43 a.m. CST

    see? even that douche didn't mention he was black

    by irc-Hollywood

    the irony!

  • that's why he makes millions he's a good entertainer

  • the childd, that is how you say negative things about a person's skills as an actor WITHOUT mentioning his skin color aka in a nonracist way ps: allthosepowers, you didnt even like bad boys? wtfuckers

  • May 25, 2012, 2:50 a.m. CST

    @antonphd

    by The Infamous Billy The Kidd

    There's nothing to run or hide from. In the blockbuster action flicks Will Smith has been involved with, he's always played into a particular stereotype. There's nothing racist about that observation. I didn't call him a loud, obnoxious black guy. What I said was that he being cast in ways that played upon this loud, obnoxious black guy act that worked for audiences in one way or another in these other films.

  • May 25, 2012, 2:50 a.m. CST

    Racist? Um...

    by Last_of_the_Emurites

    I don't hear anything racist in the context of his words. You guys seem to quickly drop the hammer on someone, despite the fact that the review was very insightful, detailed, and informative. I'm assuming many of you didn't get past the first paragraph? And he's correct - watch many of Smith's earlier roles, even up to "Bad Boys 2." He clearly has harnessed the cliche'd role of the obnoxious black guy, because nobody would buy a white guy acting the EXACT SAME WAY he did in those films. Discuss.

  • May 25, 2012, 2:53 a.m. CST

    PAY ATTENTION people.

    by CimmerianWarrior

    This is what Kidd said, "He's embraced the loud, obnoxious black guy act to superstar heights with the BAD BOYS flicks, INDEPENDENCE DAY, and, of course, a pair of MEN IN BLACK films. He’s been able to do more with the routine than the likes of Chris Tucker and Martin Lawrence, who also have been forced into this similar persona that I guess is how mainstream audiences see African-American actors" He says Will embraced the "act" of the loud obnoxious black guy. The key word is "Act" It is common knowledge that there are some black people that use that act. Just like Larry the cable guy uses the red kneck white guy routine. Or Jeff Foxworthy uses the white trash "ACT" That is all he said it was, an act. He didn't say Will as a person is loud and obnoxious. Chris Tucker is famous for being loud and obnoxious too, as is Martin Lawrence. Jim Varney played a dumb white guy. These are just personas, not actual people. They play a role and in this case the Kidd is right. I have given you examples of how certain white guys play rednecks. Is that racist? No. One last example, IF I said Andrew Dice Clay acts like a racist white guy, would that be wrong? No, because that is exactly what he does. Calm down and read more carefully. His wording was proper.

  • May 25, 2012, 2:53 a.m. CST

    re: Django Unchained

    by rakesh patel

    Does that star the white Leonardo DiCaprio?

  • May 25, 2012, 2:59 a.m. CST

    the point is nobody needed to mention his race

    by irc-Hollywood

    this 'loud obnoxious' stereotype only exists in your fucked up head, now people are coming out to defend this bushit? guess what, when I see will smith I don't see a 'black guy' trying to make it, I just see will smith. this is bullshit. fuck this website I'm done.

  • May 25, 2012, 3 a.m. CST

    There IS NO racism.

    by CimmerianWarrior

    Once again, Jeff Foxworthy and Larry the cable guy play dumb rednecks. Is that a racist comment? NO. It's the truth. If a Black person said that, they wouldn't be racist at all; they would just be making a factual statement. There is NO racism here. Political correctness needs to stop. If some offends you, move on. You do not have the right to ask for someone's job just because you don't like how he phrases a sentence. If you do not like it, ignore it. You have no right to ask for his job. None whatsoever. It isn't up to you. Your opinion of what he says is irrelevant. Move along if you're so upset. That's what I do. I don't get mad. I leave.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:01 a.m. CST

    @irc-hollywood

    by The Infamous Billy The Kidd

    It is a stereotype that only African-American actors are called upon to play. If there's a loud, obnoxious white guy act, I'd love an example.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:07 a.m. CST

    I can't give you an example of something that only exists in your end

    by irc-Hollywood

    chris tucker and will smith are not playing the same character, they are being themselves, that's them, if you've got an issue, it's with them, like I said this 'loud obnoxious black' act only exists in your warped sense of reality. I've got no interest in arguing with you, your a bigot, that's it. Sorry to break it to you.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:08 a.m. CST

    irc-hollywood

    by CimmerianWarrior

    No one will miss you. Since you don't know how to read, stick with audio broadcasts.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:12 a.m. CST

    @irc-hollywood

    by The Infamous Billy The Kidd

    So it's not possible that these are personas created by them...? Whether we're talking about Agent J, Detective Mike Lowrey or Captain Steven Hiller, you're telling me that Will Smith is doing no acting whatsoever; those aren't characters, but true extensions of who he is on a daily basis...?

  • May 25, 2012, 3:13 a.m. CST

    billythekidd - it's OBVIOUS that you are NOT racist

    by antonphd

    but your comments feel like you are pandering to people with a little bit of racism kind of like my parents do. they can't say something nice about a black person without adding something like 'for a black person'. even when they are genuinely trying to be nice. i'm not saying that you are like my parents. i'm saying that some of what you said sounds like you are talking to my parents. this is sensitive stuff and normally i would say to hell with people who are too uptight to handle an honest frank discussion about race, but it's honestly a little too serious for a review of a comedy just my 2 cents. i love you guys. just don't want to see you get thrown under the bus for stepping in it.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:18 a.m. CST

    whoa... comments turned off?

    by antonphd

    probably a good idea in this one.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:18 a.m. CST

    @antonphd

    by The Infamous Billy The Kidd

    There is no pandering going on here at all. If I'm going to say why I haven't been a fan of Will Smith or the MEN IN BLACK movies in the past, I better be able to offer up an explanation why. Will Smith's race only factors into the discussion because of the character type he's been called upon to play. But there are certain characteristics of this particular stereotype that make it about his ethnicity.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:20 a.m. CST

    like it or not your 'article' is now a race debate

    by irc-Hollywood

    that's your fault as a 'journalist' and your ignore at the implications of your own comments, not mine as a talkback et, I'm not a lone crazy voice here, others have spoken.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:23 a.m. CST

    irc-hollywood

    by CimmerianWarrior

    I am an English teacher. I can help you with your inability to read.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:25 a.m. CST

    keep on digging kid

    by irc-Hollywood

    tjat whole you've dug is only going to get deeper. We've all seen how this plays out, it happens to politicians around the world daily, first comes denial, then you will apologise, I'll just wait.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:29 a.m. CST

    Talkbackers love a good witch hunt

    by tomdolan04

    I dont particularly enjoy the Kidds reviews and this is ridiculous even by TB standards. <p> Meh. Its begun now. Rabble rabble rabble away.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:31 a.m. CST

    Loud, obnoxious white guys

    by DonLogan

    Jack Black, Will Ferrell, Adam Sandler, R. Lee Ermey, Al Pacino, Joe Pesci, John Goodman, Gilbert Godfried, Bobcat Goldthwait

  • May 25, 2012, 3:32 a.m. CST

    irc-hollywood, repeat after me

    by CimmerianWarrior

    A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z, now you've learned your ABC's, won't you come and LEARN HOW TO READ with me?

  • May 25, 2012, 3:35 a.m. CST

    @donlogan

    by The Infamous Billy The Kidd

    I'd definitely give you Black and Gottfried, but wouldn't you concede that it's still not the same...? After all, "pimp slap the shiznit" would never be written for a "loud, obnoxious white guy" type.

  • but for the record... i don't disagree that there has probably been some elements of demand and expectation for Will Smith to play a 'black', but Will Smith acted like Will Smith before he became a movie star or ever a tv star. he's always been a class clown for attention. he's gotten more mature as a person, so, yeah, he's showing some depth as an actor even in a comedy like MIB (like you said). and... this is harder to describe... but when you are a minority of some kind, whether racial or gender or religious or whatever... when you get a chance to be in the spotlight you like to represent. Will and Martin ad libbed a lot of jokes in Bad Boys. they just joked the way they joke. some of the jokes were about race. you know, what i think is a bit grating about what you said about how Will is playing a black stereo type is that he thought he was playing the characters he was playing. when he was playing a bad ass, he thought he was playing a bad ass. not a black stereo type of a bad ass. just a bad ass. when he was trying to be funny, he was just trying to be funny. not be a black stereo type of funny. when he was trying to play serious, he wasn't trying to play a black stereo type of serious. maybe you never liked Will Smith or the way he played his characters. i think if you talked to Will Smith that he wouldn't be insulted by that, but he would be insulted by being told that all of himself and all of the hard work he put into playing those characters just comes down to him playing a black stereo type. anyway, i know you didn't mean any harm. your comments were a bit tin eared and race is a touchy subject. that's all. i am personally really happy with what you've added to AICN. don't take getting a little shit for this article too seriously. unless the shitheads at Huffpost do make a big deal and then apologize and remember that there's no such thing as bad publicity?

  • May 25, 2012, 3:45 a.m. CST

    rabble rabble

    by Rev. Artemis Prime

  • May 25, 2012, 3:46 a.m. CST

    antonphd

    by CimmerianWarrior

    You can only asume he wasn't trying to act like a stereotype. Perhaps he was. Perhaps he wasn't. We don't know for sure out of the hundred things he's done. (including TV)

  • May 25, 2012, 3:47 a.m. CST

    @antonphd

    by The Infamous Billy The Kidd

    Feel free to email me to further continue some of this discussion.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:47 a.m. CST

    I'm white and I use shiznit all the time.

    by Shermdawg

  • The Kidd wrote, "He's embraced the loud, obnoxious black guy act to superstar heights with the BAD BOYS flicks, INDEPENDENCE DAY, and, of course, a pair of MEN IN BLACK films." I'm just curious since everyone is raking the Kidd over the coals for his choice of words, how would YOU have expressed the preceding sentence in a way that would have relayed the same idea without being uselessly vague? Keep in mind that as a writer, you can't assume that everyone reading this will have seen any of those films.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:54 a.m. CST

    billythekidd - thanks, i appreciate it

    by antonphd

    but it's cool.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:56 a.m. CST

    the loud, obnoxious black guy act"

    by Jimbo08lak

  • May 25, 2012, 3:58 a.m. CST

    I wasnt thinking rascist when i read it.

    by Lane_myers111

    I did disagree with his opinion of Will Smith playing obnoxious characters.I love most of his character portrayals and we all know the man has some fantastic acting chops. But if Billykid feels in his opinion the characters played by Chris Tucker,Martin Lawrence and even Chris Rock are sometimes obnoxious and also very similar then why cant he say that. There are obnoxious black guys out there you know people. And as long as you don't lump them all together or assume the pleasant ones are obnoxious too based on color then your not racist. Id love to see those actors get too sink there teeth into some completely different types of roles to see how they do. If your trying to stamp out racism there are better places to start than this review of MIB3 lol.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:59 a.m. CST

    "the loud, obnoxious black guy act"

    by Jimbo08lak

    Never thought that about Will Smith, Martin Laurence or Chris Tucker. I don't see what black has to do with it and they're 3 very different actors who only relate because they're black. You fucking suck, The Kidd.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:06 a.m. CST

    In fact its the complete opposite of racism

    by Lane_myers111

    You can tell from what he says that he thinks these young black actors have been forced to maintain a certain type of box office persona by Hollywood in order to keep making movies. Even though i feel he may be wrong he is still coming to the opinion from their side. Personally I would argue that the persona's they have portrayed in certain movies are not too obnoxious really and in fact were the personas that came directly from their own stand up acts.

  • ...unfortunately the liberal bubble has created a faux version of racial equality,gender equality etc propped up by Hollywood Hackivists and the like.In politics the The Elephant and The Mule are the same animal. It's there to keep the plebians bickering while profit is made through entertainment,exploitive sensationalistic "tabloid" journalism,legislative laws to enable worthless dependent welfare state programs,shit public education ...the list goes on. IMO there was never a race/gender/political correctness war...it was and always will be a class war. The elite sit atop the mountain while the rest bicker over this drivel...dividing and conquering with ease. Nice review Kidd. Will check out what so far has been a well received MIB movie entry.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:14 a.m. CST

    I know Kidd rubs people up the wrong way....

    by goatboy500

    But racist? Come on. mentioning that someone's black isn't racist, its an observation. 'Those curtains are red.... that guy's black... both the same things) Mentioning that Will Smith's act is that of an obnoxious black man, is also an observation. Only a fuckin idiot would disagree with that, especially after he punches out an alien in ID4 while shouting 'Who da man!!' There was nothing, absolutely nothing racist about what he said. Saying you don't want to even argue with him when he tries to explain (which he shouldn't have to do, as what he said WASN'T RACIST) is bigoted and ignorant, so maybe you idiots should read up on the actual dictionary definition of racism, bigotry.... It all comes down to ignorance, and being unable or unwilling to even tolerate a viewpoint that differs from your own, is ignorant. Being able to have a reasoned discussion about an actor who just happens to be black and who has become a superstar by playing a cocky, obnoxious character in every movie WITHOUT getting your gander up and throwing accusations of racism around, well, that's a sign adulthood. Ya'll just failed the test.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:18 a.m. CST

    irc-hollywood

    by goatboy500

    really hard to take you seriously when you get 'hole' and 'whole' mixed up. the big boys are talking. if you can't add anything constructive, or, more likely, if you can't add 2+2, then maybe you should sit this one out champ. whaddya say? ps.. the answer's 4

  • May 25, 2012, 4:21 a.m. CST

    I guess nerd rage is still licking his wounds from the Django talkback.

    by Xenodistortion

    I'm pretty sure this movie has a tie-in with KFC. Seriously though, I don't think The Kidd is racist. News Flash: Many dudes are obnoxious. That includes black dudes. And I'm pretty sure you can call black people black people and not be considered racist. I mean I get the fact that he's technically "The Fresh Prince", and in the constitution it's illegal to slander royalty. But we're a modern society folks and if you don't respect people in Bel-Air then who the fuck can you respect? Yes, black people are stupid and obnoxious. And yes, all white people are bi-sexual (which is illegal). Also Jewish people are actually Asian. So why don't we all just settle down and come together to celebrate the fact that nobody here is Samoan. Because those fuckers smell terrible. Live it up multicultural society, you'll all be Mexican in 50 years. Just like me. Yes, I'm from the future.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:27 a.m. CST

    antonphd...

    by goatboy500

    you're the one who brought race up. Kidd mentioned Will smith is black... which let's be honest, he is.. and that his schtick for at least the first 10 years of his movie career (not to mention his music and tv work which came before it) was based on that of a cocky, loudmouthed, quickwitted black man (who also happened to be exemplary in whatever chosen field he was in, be it jet fighter, puncher of aliens, a highly destructive alpha male cop) if his character was a failure in each of those films, you'd have a point, but he was the black Tom Cruise for most of those films, he was The Hero.. the guy that saves the day..... He was basically fusing that Hollywood Hero persona with his fresh prince persona, and people bought tickets to go see it. What Kidd said was he didn't like that shtick, and it overpowered the movies he was in.. a view i happen to agree with, (the only thing i've ever agreed with Kidd on btw)... but it's not racist to say that. at all. it's a critical observation. It only became abut race when you flew off the handle like a fuckin soccer mom.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:31 a.m. CST

    I'm on an iPhone, the spelling is ahit

    by irc-Hollywood

    also, go fuck yourself, cheers.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:32 a.m. CST

    No, its not racist until it gets to the "West Philalephia" remark.

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    "you can’t expect to take all the West Philadelphia out of the man" Basically saying, "Hey could you tone down that blackness just a little? It's like having a dog whistle blowing in my ear" Do you KNOW that these were all suggestions from directors "to turn up the blackness", or are you just assuming it? Because that's embarrassing shit to simply go assuming... and either way, you can call it a stereotype if you want, but black culture is KNOWN for being sort of loud, exaggerated... that's something people can term a stereotype if you want to, but go to a block party in Philly and prove me wrong. It's a difference to celebrate, not knock. In Living Colour is one of the broadest, most minstrel-y shows out there, the black man's Hee Haw, but it was written and performed BY black people, so... How can you claim that what you term "stereotypes" are being perpetuated mostly by people like these imaginary Hollywood execs of yours? I'm not doubting it happens- and often- but, evidence?? On these specific Will Smith movies? You're saying an intelligent and well-spoken black man like Will Smith would sell out his integrity to white directors who suggest he "take it up a notch?" I'd suspect that from a lot of people. Not Smith, though. The Kidd, while being a decent and credible reviewer, always just seems a little to me like some dude from South Florida who likes to smugly discuss his favorite movies, like Fight Club-type macho-man-man stuff... and he ends his reviews with lines like "Excuse me, but I have a glass of scotch to get to" Dear Lord. Now I know this is the AICN demographic or whatever, arrested-development teenagers in Charlie Sheen bowling shirts with flames running up the side. The Dudes with gelled hair and multiple piercings clutching their skinny girlfriends at Dragonball Z conventions... But. Please Harry. Get some new blood. This review is curmudgeonly bullshit. I for one, would love to review for this site, and I can write, too. sasquatchwithaswatchwatch@gmail.com

  • May 25, 2012, 4:33 a.m. CST

    And Morgan Freeman plays the magical negro

    by cool_britannia79

    These ARE white, middle class stereotypes of black people, and it makes certain actors very rich to play these roles. Denzil Washington is in my opinion one of the only black actors to break the constraints of Hollywood, and not play a stereotype. We can all name actors who make money playing racist stereotypes, Chris Tucker, Martin Lawrence, Will Smith, Tyrese Gibson etc. I don't think that's racist to point out, if anything it's saying that we don't need these fried chicken loving, wise cracking, idiotic characterisations in movies anymore.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:34 a.m. CST

    You people need to get the sand out of your vagina.

    by Mugato5150

  • Also, the line was "Welcome to Earth", which was highly appropriate at that moment.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:38 a.m. CST

    shermdawg...

    by goatboy500

    ahem... from IMDB quotes section... Captain Steven Hiller: [after crashing the alien spaceship by the Grand Canyon] *That's* what you get! Ha Ha! Look at you! Ya ship's all banged up! [shouts] Captain Steven Hiller: Who's the man? Huh? Who's the man? Wait till I get another plane! I'm a line ya friends up right beside you! Where ya at, huh? Where ya at? [Hiller opens the spaceship, the alien screams, Hiller smacks him in the head] Captain Steven Hiller: [beat] Welcome to earth. case closed, dick.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:38 a.m. CST

    Bily sucks. Tired of seeing his name EVERY DAMN DAY.

    by Ld

    viva la quint

  • May 25, 2012, 4:39 a.m. CST

    @xenodistortion Channing Tatum IS "Black Guy"

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    Did you not see GI: Joe?? He talks like a dude in giant shorts at an Insane Clown Posse show Embarrassingly, embarrassingly wannabe thug. Made that movie almost unbearable for me, even though I still really liked it, it was like watching dumb trailer park kids play with action figures. More Dukes of Hazzard than Joe. Unfortunately, his whole ebonic-inflected macho facade is probably indicative of most of our current military- in that way, G.I. Joe was a fucking documentary.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:45 a.m. CST

    mugato5150 is on to something here

    by SuperSaiyan2112

    I'll get my shovel.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:46 a.m. CST

    ps..

    by goatboy500

    i think you'll find i called will smith obnoxious because he represented excellence in his roles. it wasn't until i am legend and hancock that he played a character that was anything other than amazing at what he did and was the hero. THE HERO. This isn't a case for Chuck D to rap Burn, Hollywood, Burn, Will Smith was a proud, strong, excellent black man, in his movies (who was also a loudmouthed obnoxious.. as that's where the actual comedy came from) all Billy said was he didn't like that particular act. I'm stating that this is not a racist comment. I happen to like Bill Murray when he's loudmouthed and obnoxious, I love it when Richard Pryor is, i hated it when it was Chris Farley and i found it tiresome when Will Smith did it. Those are opinions, not fuckin racial insults. thats all i'm trying to say. Racism is the most mis-used word in the English language these days (along with genius). Oh and to the guy that said hollywood panders to racial stereotypes... maybe you should check out Tyler Perry's 'movies' on Box Office Mojo.....

  • May 25, 2012, 4:46 a.m. CST

    I remember when talkbacks used to be about movies

    by Mr Kite

    Nowadays it just seems to be a load of bitching, whining, complaining and trolling. The kidd made a perfectly valid point about a persona often used by black actors in movies. This is NOT racist, it is just an accurate observation. When white actors play rednecks or other white stereotypes nobody cries RACIST. The kidd has explained his actions and has clearly demonstrated that he has not made racist comments. Can we all go back to discussing movies now. That is all.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:54 a.m. CST

    Okay, I shouldn't have said racist. Head-up-ass, maybe.

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    Its more like, just being curmudgeonly. And assuming an awful lot. Letting your own irritability towards certain Xeroxed "types" that Hollywood bombards us with get under your skin. This is understandable. The honesty of someone expressing this is refreshing and should happen more, should come out of the closet, frankly. Do I think Will Smith doing bug eyes and flailing his arms around in a movie like "Independence Day" is annoying as crap? YES. Would I like to see an alternative to Hollywood's current neccessity to cast hip, urban swaggery types in what used to be leading man, hero roles? YES. (And I'm not talking square-jawed Gary Cooper types, or Luke Skywalker... Look at Andrew Lincoln on Walking Dead. Many ways to play a hero, and YES, now your Vin Diesel, Will Smith leading male has become basically, a coloring-book stereotype) It was the "West Philadelphia" remark that was reprehensible and criticizes a person for who ARE, like culturally, and genetically. Not cool, and should be apologized for.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:55 a.m. CST

    loud obnoxious black guy

    by Eli_Cash

    needs to be a new handle here. Also, I noticed a few people citing Ali as a film that departed from the stereotype. This puzzles me. Ali was the ORIGINAL loud obnoxious black guy. That's kinda what made him interesting in the context of his time and culture.

  • FURTHERMORE, the scene in question is an out of context example of a character that is anything but a stereotypical obnoxious black man. It's actually appropriate dialogue for the moment as is the only other time someone could point out something similar when both he and Goldblum are mocking another bugger from the cockpit in the film's climax.

  • May 25, 2012, 5:08 a.m. CST

    shermdawg.. words fail me....

    by goatboy500

    I said 'will smith punching an alien while saying 'who da man..' i pasted the actual quote which is : Captain Steven Hiller: Who's the man? Huh? Who's the man? Wait till I get another plane! I'm a line ya friends up right beside you! Where ya at, huh? Where ya at? oh wait.... okaaaaay, i get it, he said that BEFORE punching the alien... and he didn't say 'da' he said 'the'... no you're right.. I'm sorry... i misquoted the scene ENTIRELY. I should have originally stated that he said 'who's THE man' BEFORE punching an alien. i forgot this was the internet and people on the TB were pedantic. I'm the dick. I'm a failure as a man and as a fighter pilot..... i apologise profusely sir. Dick.

  • May 25, 2012, 5:08 a.m. CST

    @sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    by The Infamous Billy The Kidd

    The West Philadelphia mention isn't meant to be racial at all. In fact, it's a reference to the lyrics of the FRESH PRINCE theme song, a show where this persona/stereotype really started...

  • May 25, 2012, 5:09 a.m. CST

    Loud Obnoxious White Guy...

    by BookhouseBoy

    Hello Stiffler!!!

  • May 25, 2012, 5:22 a.m. CST

    look Shermdawg..

    by goatboy500

    I really do apologise for calling you a dick, twice. Its out of line and I'm sorry, but c'mon i didn't realise you were expecting an actual perfect representation of the scene. Any anyway, everything you else you wrote was not based on fact, but your interpretation of that particualr part of the movie, and I was representing mine. In which case both viewpoints are subjective and arguing about them is a moot point. I only mentioned that scene because that’s the point where I turned off completely from ID4 (it started with the scene with the dog escaping from the fire in the tunnel)… at this point in the story, Will Smith’s lost his best friend, and is most likely aware that the aliens have wiped out a massive portion of earth’s population…. Do we get emotion? Do we get real anger? No, we get the fresh prince. It’s probably not even Smith’s fault, it was likely scripted that way.. but for a film with one of the best setups in movie history.. the first 30 minutes is terrifying.. after that scene the movie turns to shit, just utter shit. And like I say, it’s not even Smith’s fault, it’s the result of a poor script. So I’m sorry man. Peace.

  • May 25, 2012, 5:23 a.m. CST

    well he's right

    by Pipple

    Most asians play martial artists. Most Hispanics play the tortilla chomping janitor or something spanish-ish Most blacks in hollywood play the jive talkin gangsta Most white people play well... everything. But typically males are portrayed as dumb goofy baffoons which is imo sad. It's all about pleasing the LCD.

  • But that didn't happen at all....and the trash talking on the way up to the alien craft, the alien craft he just risked his life shooting down, isn't an example either. It's adrenaline talking from a young character (that happens to be black) in a situation that he probably never dreamed he'd be in, and just because he's obnoxious for..oh, what? Ten seconds? That certainly doesn't define the character. You're pulling lines out of context to make a point, but totally overlooking the reasons the words were said as well as Hiller not fitting that classification throughout the film. RICHARD.

  • May 25, 2012, 5:34 a.m. CST

    uh.. no i wasn't...

    by goatboy500

    i made a comment about will smith saying 'who da man' while punching an alien and you said i got the quote wrong, like that phrase wasn't even said in that scene. i replied to prove you wrong, and you then started talking guff about the scene's context. I never touched the scene's context, i was merely pointing out that he did in fact say 'who's the man' in that scene. But as I've said, that scene sucks and I hated the movie afterwards, which is why it sticks in memory... and i think we can all agree that scene would have been different if Smith wasn't in the movie. No?

  • May 25, 2012, 5:36 a.m. CST

    Lack of talkback refresh, missed your last post.

    by Shermdawg

    I understand where ya coming from now. I can't say I agree with your assessment, but I hear ya. Apology accepted.

  • May 25, 2012, 5:37 a.m. CST

    Loud, obnoxious black guy act...

    by Fritzlorrerains

    There are plenty of loud obnoxious white guys so there is no reason to single out black men. And then you say in the talkback that you cannot think of any loud, obnoxious white men? Hmmm. Doubt the Kidd is racist but he needs a little sensitivity training perhaps.

  • No, because I don't feel that it is necessarily the dialogue specific to an ethnicity as much as it was age.

  • May 25, 2012, 5:43 a.m. CST

    The problem is...

    by Dr Eric Vornoff

    ...most people don't see Smith's persona as the 'Load Obnoxious Black Guy'. I'm far from the biggest Will Smith fan but it's obvious there is genuine charisma and intelligence there, hence his huge crossover success unlike the shrill one-note Tucker and Lawrence whose appeal is definitely more limited. The fact that you've lumped them all together on the basis that they're black does seem a little suspect.

  • Then all bets are off, huh? Comics assiduously sling incredibly ignorant, stereotypical, and hurtful comments toward caucasians. Portray them as power hungry, as physically incapable of competing against darker skinned people in sports, as incapable of dancing, as lame, as demons responsible for all the world's evils...ALL OK. So long as you're talking about white people. But mention that someone is black and suddenly you're Satan's minion, whipping the poor black slave as he picks cotton, huh? I think grouping people by color or even ethnic heritage should just be disallowed altogether. Freedom of speech be damned. Just drop the whole antiquated concept of race...because the differences have never been the physical ones - the CULTURES are the main difference - which is divorced from skin color. Compare the American "black culture" (which isn't even entirely limited to people of recent African descent)...to immigrants who are from say, East Africa. COMPLETELY different, and perceived in completely different ways because they ACT differently. Sure, some base their hatred on skin color alone - but I think the deep seated problem is rooted in cultural differences. The taliban doesnt hate us because we're American, or because you might be a different ethnicity - Islam is comprised of many ethnic groups - they hate us because we are CULTURALLY different. Color or facial attributes are simply the means by which people attempt to identify people they associate with those cultures they may or may not hate. It's ignorant and myopic, to be sure. But it is the first and most obvious way for them to differentiate between people (at least in their small minds). Race doesn't exist. So the way I see it, it is impossible to be "racist", once you realize that we are all intimately, closely related (only 70,000 years ago - the blink of an eye in the grand scale of things - the entire human population nearly went extinct and was bottlenecked to maybe 5 to 10,000 people left on EARTH - we are all descended from fewer people than could fit in a stadium). Humans are simply creatures that have trained themselves and each other to segregate and despise those who are different from them in just about any way. We are primitive apes. We really aren't all that different from chimps, when you boil it down. I'm primarily of (within the time we've actually been able to track it) European ancestry - but i also share genetic markers with people in southeast asia, with native american tribes, and with africans. Appearance doesn't even BEGIN to tell you what a person is or who they are related to. That said...I find it funny. In an ironic way. People are such hypocrites. Step above the restrictions of such concepts as "race", and you'll see how hilarious it is that we even consider it worth fighting over - this insipid lunacy of defining ourselves and each other by our most recent genetic or cultural heritage, as opposed to the whole of the individual or of all people. If Earth were notified tomorrow that it would be attacked by another civilization in 5 years time, nobody would give a flying fuck what color or culture the man or woman next to them was associated with. They would work together (the sane, relatively intelligent ones who didn't view it as a time for anarchy and looting)- to preserve not a skin color, or a culture, but something far more profound - our identity as human beings. Priorities, people. Priorities. I know that was a long rant. But if you take anything away, I'd like it to be that last bit. It is the one truth that we all instinctively know but seldom think about. We are all one.

  • Rendering, of course, his time-viewing powers completely non-existent, really. Hope they riff on that.

  • May 25, 2012, 6:11 a.m. CST

    And The Kidd ruins another talkback/review!

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    Why do you employee this douche Harry? Its clear he doesn't know how to write articles, not to mentions his reviews suck! Plus throwing in his racists opinions about black actors just sour this talkback beyond belief. What a fucking prick.

  • May 25, 2012, 6:20 a.m. CST

    Gilbert Godfrey,Tom Cruise, Chris Farley, Robb Riggle

    by kikuchiyoboy

    Will Ferrel, Adam Sandler are all loud obnoxious black people...

  • May 25, 2012, 6:25 a.m. CST

    Personal appeal

    by DaKnifeOrDaGun

    Everyone has their own 'schtick'. Jack Black. Adam Sandler. Danny Mcbride. Will Farrell . Jessie Eisenberg. They all have their own unique appeal and you pretty much know what you're getting when you see one of their movies. Will Smith has done very well playing to his strengths. He can do drama BUT his A game will always be comedy. He will never be a Lawrence Fishburne or Denzel Washington and he wisely knows that. He's not everyones cup of tea and neither should he be. It's unfortunate that any black actor specializing in broad humor gets the stereotype label due to early Hollywood's bad history regarding black artists. Will Smith and Eddie Murphy doing their thing is not the same as the real stereotyping of Uncle Remus or Amos n' Andy. There should be no comparison for the spectrum of comedy is a rainbow of colors. So for the record... Will smith doing his 'wise cracking black thing' is no different than Joe Pesci doing his 'Italian mafia' thing which is no different than Salma Hayek doing her sultry Latina thing. All of them will show some range in other areas but they will always have their own signature. They know they are character actors doing the best they can with what they have. We all do the same every day in our own lives.

  • Wasn't Smith's Mike Lowrey in the Bad Boys films a suave and relatively straight man to Martin Lawrence's goofball routine? And while we're at it, wasn't the only time Agent J was obnoxious.....or obnoxiously loud....I should say, is when he was put in some sort of crazy situation whether it be a fight with a bug or a trip in K's hyperspeed ride? It was reactionary and nothing race specific.

  • May 25, 2012, 6:51 a.m. CST

    Examples of loud, obnoxious white guy acts?

    by dasheight

  • May 25, 2012, 6:51 a.m. CST

    Examples of loud, obnoxious white guy acts?

    by dasheight

  • Early Jim Carrey, Jack Black, early Adam Sandler - I mean mostly ALL of them. I don't think what you were saying in the article was "racist", but I can see how people would detect that, and it's not just because of over-sensitivity, as your criticism of Smith in the films seems to BE his "blackness", or, to put it more accurately, his "acting too black" - which your review pretty much says is the reason you've been turned off by his performances in the MIB films - which, to me, seems a bit odd, as his character is a young, streetwise, black cop - so of course he's going to be talking like a young, streetwise, black cop - it's debatable whether or not that's "playing into a stereotype". The question would be if you didn't like Eddie Murphy's performance in the first "Beverly Hills Cop", as Smith basically played the same character. Did that performance turn you off? Or is it specifically Smith who you don't like? In other words, if black actors playing street-wise characters that speak accurately for those particular characters, with the similar (or at least tried-for similarity) slang used for those characters, have traditionally rubbed you the wrong way, then I'd say there's a bit of passive-aggressive bigotry going on. Let me ask you this: do you have a problem with comedies featuring white actors "playing into stereotypes" like the "frat guy" or the "nerdy guy", etc.? Or do you just have a problem with black actors playing "street-wise" characters? The answer is pretty much where you're at. That said, this review itself isn't grounds for calling Kidd "racist" - but those are questions I'd ask in order to clarify.

  • May 25, 2012, 7:19 a.m. CST

    If irc-hollywood could actually SPELL...

    by NightArrows

    ...then he might not come off as a fucking idiot, spouting chants of "RACIST", just to stir the shit. As it stands, he CAN'T spell and his thoughts get lost in the idiocy of his inabilities.

  • May 25, 2012, 7:31 a.m. CST

    Absolutely Racist

    by Chadley BeBay

    Disgusting man. Your excuses make you look even worse! Also, he isn't even loud and obnoxious in his films!!! He shouts when he gets his crazy schtick on, but dude he is laid back and cool most of the time, thats his demeanor. You fucking pigish cunt of a man. He doesn't even FIT a fucking black stereotype. Just fucking kill yourself, your defense of your actions is pitiful.

  • May 25, 2012, 7:36 a.m. CST

    I'm not interested in stirring shit for the sake of it

    by irc-Hollywood

    and I type into this forum from an iPhone, ever tried it? it's hard, if my thoughts get lost in bad spelling, that's too bad, doesn't change the fact that I found the article and uncomfortable read. oh well.

  • May 25, 2012, 7:46 a.m. CST

    nightarrows

    by Chadley BeBay

    Fuck off brother, irc is dead on. You are probably a fucking racist too. A lot of people are disgusted by this, and TB'ers aren't traditionally that PC, in case you haven't noticed. Don't downplay it, the Kidd fucked up.

  • May 25, 2012, 7:51 a.m. CST

    chadley bebay

    by NightArrows

    Will has never been obnoxious in his films? Are you out of your fucking mind? His films, for the most part, are ALL ABOUT his "schtick", which is the wisecracking, brash, loud-mouthed character. And when people tire of his films, they cite those EXACT same traits.

  • May 25, 2012, 7:56 a.m. CST

    Yes, I'm a racist chadley bebay

    by NightArrows

    Way to stretch the arguments to extremes to make your point. Have I defended Kidd once? Have I taken a stand and flat-out called him a racist? I've done neither. So take your bullshit and run and go fuck yourself.

  • May 25, 2012, 7:58 a.m. CST

    irc-hollywood

    by NightArrows

    Yes I have. And if you are going to call someone out for being something as ugly as a racist? You had better not look like a garden-variety internet idiot while doing so. Coherent thoughts and spelling go a long way to making your case credible.

  • May 25, 2012, 8 a.m. CST

    I never used the word racist I said 'bigot' check it

    by irc-Hollywood

  • May 25, 2012, 8 a.m. CST

    ahh how the trolls love to yell "racist"...

    by Simpsonian

    agree with everything you said Kidd and I can give a fuck what some nerdy trolls say; thanks for saying it and I agree with the above poster that it is the OPPOSITE of racism!!!

  • May 25, 2012, 8:12 a.m. CST

    All racists are bigots

    by NightArrows

    And in this case irc-hollywood, your usage tilted bigotry to racism.

  • May 25, 2012, 8:14 a.m. CST

    So...the movie isn't so bad huh?

    by knowthyself

    I'm more shocked about that than anything else in the article lol. Damn Kidd this review and stirring the shit with Sonnenfeld you really are making a name for yourself here at AICN.

  • May 25, 2012, 8:15 a.m. CST

    You can't name any loud, obnoxious white men?

    by Miss 45

    Cause I know plenty. I wasn't thinking racism at all until you wrote that. Oh, and this: "Will Smith's race only factors into the discussion because of the character type he's been called upon to play. But there are certain characteristics of this particular stereotype that make it about his ethnicity." REALLY? I don't jump on the racism bandwagon, I didn't really read any racism in the article but geesh, your replies reek of it.

  • May 25, 2012, 8:48 a.m. CST

    irc-hollywood - are you somekind of fucking idiot or what!?!?

    by AllThosePowers

  • May 25, 2012, 8:48 a.m. CST

    Definitely no racism in this review

    by obidawsn

    Although I may admit that racism still exists in this country, it isn't as rampant or as big of an issue as many will try to make us believe. And racism is actually fueled by people calling racism for every little thing and by minorities acting like they are victims in matters where they really aren't. I don't want to get into that discussion, but it relates to how this talkback has been. I didn't see one thing racist about this review. But just because he mentioned the term "black guy" people jumped on the racist bandwagon without understanding the context or intent of the term. He wasn't saying that because he was black, that he was loud and obnoxious, but that he was playing on this persona that is predominantly portrayed by black people. Certain mannerisms and words that our typically only used by black people, mixed with a loud and obnoxious personality. Although there may be some white people who take on that personality (I actually work with a white woman who acts like that sometimes), especially if they grow up or hang around those types, it is hard to deny that it's predominantly black people who portray that characteristic. That's not a racist stereotype. A racist stereotype would be to say that all (or even most) black people act that way. Using the Larry the Cable Guy example from above, it would be racist to say that every white guy or every white guy who lives in a certain region acts like that, but to say that that redneck characteristic is typically portrayed by white people isn't racist. BillytheKidd wasn't saying he didn't like Will Smith movies because he was black, but that he didn't like that character type he was playing (which is predominantly portrayed by black people). In fact, he took it a step farther from being racist by saying that he thought Will Smith might have been forced to act that way, thinking that's what audiences wanted. Meaning he thought Will Smith was being typecast, and Hollywood thought audiences only wanted to see their big African-American actors as that character type (which would be a stereotype). But Kidd didn't like that personality, and didn't agree that Will Smith needed to keep portraying that personality (which he hasn't, unlike some of the other actors he mentioned). He was glad that Will Smith could bring some of his more serious acting and drop that personality (that comes across as a stereotype if overplayed) to MIB3. If he would have just said he played that loud and obnoxious guy (without mentioning the black part), and one didn't know Will Smith's characters from those movies, one might picture any number of loud and obnoxious types. Jack Black's, Jim Carrey's and Gilbert Gottfried's "loud and obnoxioius" are totally different than that of Smith, Lawrence or Tucker and even differ from each other (Jack Black = obnoxious rocker type, Carrey = obnoxiously stupid type, Gottfried = well...just obnoxious). Thank you, Kidd, for your review. I don't come on here for journalistic integrity in writing or a well-written journalist piece, but an honest review. That's what most people want, and which is why most newspaper critics are being left out in the cold when it comes to people caring about what they write.

  • May 25, 2012, 8:50 a.m. CST

    This site needs an enema!

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • Will Smith has very rarely played anyone else other than 'loud obnoxious black man,' he therefore is, in my eyes, 'a loud obnoxious black man' because that is all I see. That is all the Kidd sees, and more importantly world's cinema goers. If Will smith is dumb enough to behave like a slave and only accept roles that portray him like this, it's not our fault if we're racist, becuase he is feeding us this notion you fucking idiot. He's calling us out to be racist by planting in the stereotype and consistantly cementing it or re-inforcing it by continually playing the same roles. So fuck you!! If I am racist for calling Will smith a boring black man who carries no entertainment value whatsoever for me, who the fuck are you to tell me I'm wrong. You can go fuck your mother!!

  • May 25, 2012, 9:03 a.m. CST

    66% on Rotten Tomatoes

    by Dead_Kate_Moss

    Original got 90%. Make of that what you will.

  • May 25, 2012, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Here's what I would guess the kid did...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...Once upon a time he read a review of a certain Chris Tucker/Jackei Chan movie. This movie was a sequel that had almost nothing to offer (because they didn't want to take the time or trouble to let Jackie Chan create some cool stunts or have someone write a decent script) other than the speed and volume at which Chris Tucker could shout. Tucker filled these screeds with pretty much nonstop racist and sexist blather. Because Tucker, God bless him for his part in Friday and Fifth Element, seems to have a pretty damn limited range. Anyway, Roger Ebert, a real film critic, wrote a review in which he decried what Tucker had done in the film. Using language, by the way, that was suspiciously close to the language Kidd used in this review (though much better, of course, because he's Roger Ebert). So Kidd needs to write this review for MiB3. And he wants to say he liked it but...you know...he wants to keep it real because nobody hip is down for saying they like the other ones. So he needs his hook, you know, so he can say this ones a little bit better. So he takes the Roger Ebert stuff, tosses it on an actor who has a pretty unique movie star persona that is NOTHING like that of Chris Tucker (seriously, KIDD, to use two loud obnoxious white performers...it would be like saying Adam Sandler and Hulk Hogan were similar...Smith's whole shctick has depended on him being laid back and cool while Tucker was always skittering on the edge of a complete freak-out...just nothing alike at all...except the color of their skin). Then he throws in that really odd (and this one is a lot harder to defend against) Philly comment. Because Will Smith wrote that line? Don't think so. Did the screenwriter come from Philly? No. Maybe Kidd's letting something slip. Maybe not. Kind of hard to tell because of the general quality of his writing. My guess is he reached back to the very similar sounding review Ebert wrote and tried to update it in a way that he just wasn't experienced enough to understand it could not apply. That still doesn't quite cover that very peculiar Philly comment, but damn. I mean dayyyuuummm.

  • May 25, 2012, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Interesting theory red ned

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 9:18 a.m. CST

    Saw nothing racist in his comments

    by Hipshot

    Racism is the assumption that a particular group is beneath or above another group. Not that there are not obnoxious elements to any group (unless you imply that a larger percentage of said group is inferior or obnoxious than those of your group with similar characteristics). Billy the Kid is talking about a stereotype he believes Smith plays, not what he considers black people to be. Now, there are people on this board who genuinely DO believe blacks are inferior, and they let their freak flags fly. No need to waste ire on someone just commenting on cultural archetypes. Save your attacks for Danialnocharismacraig or Asi.

  • ...I can easily say white people re-inforce the views that other people have of them, same goes for indians, chinese, japanese, jewish, etc. It's no different. And I still stick by my "Black people can easily decline roles, but no they readily accept the stereotypical roles offered to them, in other words they remain slaves to their masters - Hollywood studio execs, directors, etc." Again this is not racist, I am outlining a fact here dumbass

  • May 25, 2012, 9:20 a.m. CST

    AWWW HEEELLLLLL NO!

    by UGG

    I must be racist then because I hate it when black people are loud and obnoxious. I also hate when white people are too, and women and homosexuals. SHEEEEIT I'm a racist misogynistic homophobe cheers AICN!

  • And to many of the African American talkbackers here, simply disliking Will Smith means that you are a racist.

  • and then falls down on his butt from all the water pouring out of the lighting fixtures?

  • But, I challenge anyone to convince me that otherwise that Martin Lawrence, Chris Tucker and Tyler Perry are playing anything other than blatant stereotypes. There are many, MANY in the African American academic community and elsewhere who have criticized the roles these actors play.

  • May 25, 2012, 9:48 a.m. CST

    As for black stars being "slaves"

    by Hipshot

    That's just nonsense, and a misuse of the term generally only made by white people with little understanding of what slavery was. Operating within the system to make money one can pass on to one's children and community is an old, old pattern. Smith, I think, sees the writing on the wall: as long as he is/was seen as a "child-man" and not a threat thereby, he could be the biggest star in the world. But his full humanity was never, and would never, be embraced. Note that his only two movies to fail to crack 100 million were the ones in which he had sex (Ali and Seven Pounds). White people disliked "Seven Pounds" but it won the NAACP Image award, so clearly that was a response divided (largely) by race. Blacks would be no more likely to distort their view positively than whites would be to distort it negatively, so there you are. There ARE no black male stars who can be sexual (in other words, fully mature males) onscreen without the box office tanking (here defined as keeping box office below 100 mil domestic) . So Smith is, I think, taking the money and running. After the failure of "Seven Pounds" he took four years off to be with his family and develop his children's careers...to spectacular effect. Jaden is still way below the critical age at which sex would rear its head, and starred in a film that earned almost 1/2 billion worldwide. That's more than all but one Jackie Chan film, so you can't put the credit there. Note the absolutely venomous hatred of Jaden among some AICN talkbackers--I suspect they sense what Smith is doing: establishing a dynasty to work around the cultural limitations. Meanwhile, of course, he's laughing all the way to the bank. "Slave" my ass. He owned the world, dudes, and if his career collapses will walk away with almost a billion dollars. Suck on it.

  • May 25, 2012, 9:49 a.m. CST

    oh christ here we go again...

    by thedoctor28

    all one has to say is BLACK and the shit hits the fan. You know how people are Kidd. You stuck your foot in it on this one. I know you didnt mean anything. Anything can be taken out of context. Whata world whata world....

  • May 25, 2012, 9:53 a.m. CST

    nightarrows

    by Chadley BeBay

    YES WILL CAN BE LOUD IN HIS FILMS YOU FUCK, however his schtick is not that of a LOUD OBNOXIOUS guy... He was fucking laid back (pre aliens) in ID4, Men In Black, Fresh Prince, Bad Boys, etc etc etc. Of course when something explodes, for instance, he reacts with an over the top schtick, but thats not the fucking nature of the characters he plays. He isn't Chris Tucker. He isn't Martin Lawrence. Now that is obnoxious. Notice there was no fucking reason for me to mention he is black. The funny thing is, you people defending that repungnent statement have NO FUCKING CLUE. And no one is gonna be able to convince you, because you are just plain ignorant. Thats what being ignorant IS.

  • May 25, 2012, 9:56 a.m. CST

    darth_meh...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...hence my comment above. One of these things is not like the others, One of these things just doesn't belong, Can you tell which thing is not like the others By the time I finish my song? Maybe it's the one who has played a relatively wide range of roles for a guy known more as a movie star than an actor, and who has a pretty strong movie star persona.

  • May 25, 2012, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Really he has to be fired. This review is despicable.

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 9:58 a.m. CST

    What the Kidd said wasn't racist...

    by Tom Fremgen

    if you noticed, he said 'we' were all racist for only letting black actors play the same role- you know guys like Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington. And for there being no white obnoxious comedy guys, I sorry but isn't any that pretty much all Seth Rogen does? Or maybe Larry the Cable guy, and good lord knows that's the only character Chris Farley could play! So I respectfully disagree sir.

  • The fact that if an African American actor plays a "loud" and "obnoxious" character it is a "black thing", but when a caucasian actor does it, it isn't a "white thing" does have a hint of racism.

  • May 25, 2012, 9:59 a.m. CST

    chadley bebay you simpleton cunt

    by NightArrows

    He is LOUD, and he is OBNOXIOUS in his FUCKING SCHTICK YOU STUPID MOTHER FUCKER. Sure, he will throw in the laid-back vibe, but that doesn't discount what HE USES TO FULL EFFECT LIKE THE CAPS LOCK THAT SEEMS TO BE GETTING STUCK FOR YOU. "You people", see, right there you're lumping me in with a group and the irony fucking escapes your feeble little brain. I have not taken a stance on either side of this discussion. I have simply stated what Will Smith's "schtick" is. I have NOT spoken any line to paint me as a racist or a bigot. So calling someone loud and obnoxious is "repugnant", even though I didn't use "black man" as a qualifier for the statement? You're a fucking idiot.

  • seriously kidd sometimes your really really cross the line.

  • May 25, 2012, 10:05 a.m. CST

    riprat...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...methinks the rodent doth protest too much.

  • May 25, 2012, 10:08 a.m. CST

    red ned actually I don't like racism in any form. It is that simple

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 10:11 a.m. CST

    All right, Mr. Rat...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...you Rip along.

  • May 25, 2012, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Accusations of The Kid's comments as racist

    by Hipshot

    Are starting to sound like the troll comments concerning Quint's "KFC" joke re: Django, a distortion and trivialization of a serious issue. Most blacks generally speak and act in "American standard" behaviors, but as there are regional and class-oriented differentiations, there are argots, slang, and regional dialects that some prefer, and that some audiences either like or dislike. Most white comedians speak in "American standard" but others specifically play to regional or class stereotypes. Probably more blacks do this, because it is an easy way of establishing identify, characterization or schtick. But it would be a huge mistake to confuse characterization with character, which is what racists do. I see none of this in The Kid's comments.

  • May 25, 2012, 10:15 a.m. CST

    How is it Will looks the same age as MIB 2

    by UGG

    Is it because black truly does not crack? And the Philly comment, Will said the exact same thing in a recent interview I watched him give.

  • May 25, 2012, 10:17 a.m. CST

    hipshot...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...The Philly comment actually does exactly that. It absolutely blurs the lines between actor reciting dialogue written by another with the persona of Will Smith. If you can figure out a way that it does not I will be happy to read it. And thank you for making that very accurate delineation.

  • on Graham Norton last week. Skip to 1:50 for the start of the song

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFjwbKMlmF4

  • "loud obnoxious black guy" ..... really kidd? I haven't read ANY reviews that used that term to describe will smith- but then , all of the reviews I read were from ACTUAL film critics who don't have drawings of themselves as cowboys. As a film critic you're supposed to put your prejudices aside and judge a movie on its own merits , but you are clearly not professional enough to do that. You are an amateur . And a prick.

  • May 25, 2012, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Miss 45

    by Miss 45

    I'll say it again: I didn't find the review racist but his comments afterwards like THIS: "certain characteristics of this particular stereotype that make it about his ethnicity." and THIS: "It is a stereotype that only African-American actors are called upon to play. If there's a loud, obnoxious white guy act, I'd love an example. " are completely racist and make me sad.

  • May 25, 2012, 10:31 a.m. CST

    red ned lynch

    by Hipshot

    The Philly comment is cultural, not racial. It is like saying "can't take all the Ozark out of..." some redneck comedian. Racial would be insinuating that this is a trait of all black people, or a majority, especially if you imply this is innate and not, for instance, a result of social disadvantage. I think you know I have no tolerance for racism at all, but this comment seemed to be about a schtick that Smith uses rather than the character of the man, or an entire people. Smith is a brilliant guy who has played the system like a piccolo, tap-dancing through the cultural minefield of stereotypes with uncommon grace. Really love and admire him (and no, he's not a Scientologist) but I have to admit that he does juggle stereotypes. Comedians do that, to trigger laughter and disarm discomfort. The Kidd may have put it bluntly, but unless he implied that one group is superior or inferior to another, it simply is not what I call "racism." And I think that the recent furor over Quints comments were actually being fed by white guys who want to trivialize actual racism by providing "evidence" that those who protest it are morons. It remains to be seen if that is happening here.

  • The internet ought to be a place you can express things like this. It's fucking free speech. To believe in free speech, to the letter, means you have no right to even call halt to a KLAN MEETING. Much to gaping of a contradiction there, not when free speech is the American value perched brightly at the top of the Masonic pyramid. The right to view movies with your head up your backwater ass is an American one. Just the way it is. Be grateful for it. Whatever your reasons are for the west Philadelphia comment, this review made people feel a lot of ugly feelings. And no amount of discussion isn't going to change the fact there there is, undoubtedly, implicit ignorance at the heart of this piece that as made people feel... disgusted... when they ACTUALLY come on this site for some open minded, childlike, whimsical reviews of geeky sci-films and the like. Smugness belongs to the vericose-vein havin little boys on the talkback, and should have NO place in the review section. Mods need to fix this place up so it can actually reach the sort of Forry Ackerman-style geek nirvana that is starting to come off of Harry's videos. No more stuffed shirts writing reviews coming into it was all this baggage. I want assholes I'll go to the video store in Fort Lauderdale and try to talk to some dickweed clerk about how he feels about Boondock Saints 2 or whatever.

  • May 25, 2012, 10:49 a.m. CST

    If you wish the email is hollywoodbureau@naacpnet.org

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Loud?? Obnoxious?? AAWWWW HELLLLL NAAAWWWWW!!!

    by atlatl

  • This is a good review. Nothing wrong with it. Just dumb comments. People are just being TROLLS. OH BY THE WAY I'M HISPANIC.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:19 a.m. CST

    PERSONALLY, I REALLY DON'T SEE IT...

    by Astronut

    The Kidd was merely making an observation that, yeah, a lot of black actors go for the "obnoxious loud gangsta" thing. And conversely, a lot of white actors go for the "obnoxious loud redneck" thing. Stereotypes exist, people. I really didn't come away offended or thinking The Kidd is some kind of terrible racist, from reading that. I come here to read about movies and effects, and fun stuff. And the talkbacks are great. Except when everyone has to bitch, bitch, BITCH. FUUUCCCcckkkk.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Racist or Not.

    by Beosker Posey III

    I'm not sure where to begin. Being an African American, do I think the article was racist? Truthfully, I was thinking that he was calling the public racist. But then all of this bugaboo stuff started. So, I don't know. I definitely got the sense of his disdain for Will Smith in the read, which I attributed to his dislike for Smith's gimmick. I suppose, though, if I read in some other article that he liked Jack Black's or Adam Sandler's stuff then I would probably think differently. So I guess I can see a bit racism in both ways. Sure, there is some legit concerns of seeing Smith continuously playing a particular "type" of African American or an Asian always playing a "type" of Asian or etc. But how do you mention it. Like someone pointed out why suggest that Smith's style is one that is a stereo type and not with the likes of Jack Black, Jim Carey, Sean William Scott, Jonah Hill, etc. With any deep analysis, that's how I see Will Smith. And Even more, I think of all those in the same way as Bruce Willis, Robert Dinero, George Cloonley Jason Statham and more. People who play the same person every movie. When I was a kid Will Smith was rapper. Then he became a TV star. Then a movie Star(which is extremely difficult to do white, black, green or yellow). In all that time his gimmick has been pretty standard. I'm not saying there isn't any racism or prejudice involved at all, there is even more at play. Even now as I type this, I can see in my head some snarky Hollywood exec walking up and saying hey "how about a little more "Fresh Prince" in that performance or how about a little more "Jim Carey" in that performance. Any way, I like Will Smith. Not all his movies are great (That goes for all actors I guess). I like to look at his stuff this way. Sure, he did the Will Smith Stuff in ID4 but to he was also the Tom Cruise from top gun mixed with a little of Dirk Benedict's Starbuck (who didn't think they guy was cool). In the Bad Boys movies(don't remember 2 that much) he was the Mel Gibson character ( the crazy hero but still HERO) and not the reliable sidekick. I can imagine for an African American that would be cool (I wasn't a kid when this movie came out so I can only imagine.) As a kid I think everyone has gone and pretended to be Superman, Batman, or even Luke Skywalker at some point. But it makes you feel kind of stupid to hear a kid tell that you can't be Superman because your black (which has happened before). So, maybe I have blinders on but I will always give his stuff a chance. anyway I'm rambling but just my thoughts. Oh, one more thing on the article. I'm sure there is enough her to clearly say he was being racist. Maybe he could have said it better. In the end I wasn't offended.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:22 a.m. CST

    Oh Come On...

    by Dan westy

    Did this site not used to be about movies and 'cool news'? Really chill the fuck out if you don't like what someone has to say, stop whipping out the race card and just fuck right off. I am so sick of talkbacks where the movie hardly even gets mentioned. I don't view his comments as racist, I think they are completley true that Will Smith has a certain 'obnoxious' flair that has carried his career...and guess what...he's fucking black; who cares? As a white male I think the next time a movie/tv shows portrays a white male as a serial killer/rapist/fatcat/etc I'm going to play the race card and see where it gets me. I have a feeling it won't go anywhere but really either is this. Simmer the fuck down and just talk about the fucking movie (which by the way I think will be allright, really looking forward to Brolin's TLJ impression)

  • May 25, 2012, 11:23 a.m. CST

    hipshot...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...and as I'm sure you know I not only defended Quint in that talkback but pointed out to Riprat in this one that the totality of its comments seemed more designed to fan flames than do anything constructive. But about the Philly thing? I think you're really stretching. It was a line of dialogue in a film spoken by a character. The phrase in question originated and is identified with black folks not white folks, and Kidd's phrasing surrounding it was fairly bllunt as well. Now it may have been the product of ignorance. You can see above what I thought of the entire tone of the review and having read some other things Kidd's written which leaned very heavily on the work of others (and this is common with young writers and a natural step in finding your voice) I really sort of suspect I'm right. But to try to call this cultural...I don't imagine there are many poor white laid off steel workers in Philly who would have used that particular phrasing, nor do I believe that if a white character of that type did so in a movie it would have been referred to in the way it was here. And once again, it is the actor who is famously from Philly, not the character who said that scripted line in the movie. So although I don't believe your explanation even works as an extrapolation of your original statement, clearly by the parameters set out in that original statement what Kidd did with the Philly line would most assuredly qualify.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:27 a.m. CST

    red ned lynch

    by Hipshot

    Will Smith has played that character from Philly since "Fresh Prince." Believe me, he has massive input in his dialog and screen personae, and has chosen this particular one because it is comfortable and popular. Nothing wrong with that, but it is a choice. actually, I think a dynamite choice.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Question: Does Nicole look HOT?

    by jellypop

  • May 25, 2012, 11:30 a.m. CST

    This reviewer should be fired.

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • Chris tucker and Martin Lawrence ARE two loud, annoying black comedians that do nothing but act like fools, and make jokes at the expense of other races and nationalities. Isn't it funny how certain groups are allowed to insult other races, but if the white folk are even thought to have hinted at even something minor a riot ensues.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:31 a.m. CST

    hipshot...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...and amusingly enough I'm not a big fan of Smith's nor this franchise. Funny old world, isn't it?

  • May 25, 2012, 11:33 a.m. CST

    What I think KIDD reallly meant to say....

    by knowthyself

    Smith sticks out like a sore thumb in all his movies. He never becomes any character he is just always himself. That's his problem.Not being loud or obnoxious. (The exceptions are a few but for the most part he never disappears into a role.)

  • May 25, 2012, 11:37 a.m. CST

    Of course he's white, so he gets a pass. Racist

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 11:47 a.m. CST

    Kidd's Observation is Not Racism

    by wrath 4771

    Kidd is just pointing out that Smith is (was) type cast into a role that quickly became a cliche. I would also agree that early in their acting careers, Lawrence and Rock were also cast in similar roles (Rock in New Jack or CB4, though I think one could make the arguement that Lawrence has always been obnoxious). What would make Kidd a racist was if he had said that was the ony roles African-Americans were capable of playing. All Kidd did was point out a stereotype, which does not make you a racist.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:48 a.m. CST

    knowthyself

    by Hipshot

    He's always himself. Like Eastwood, Swarzenegger, Stallone, or any number of other stars--mostly the same personae. It's not a "problem". It's the job of "star." I assume you have the same "problem" with John Wayne.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:49 a.m. CST

    red ned lynch

    by Hipshot

    Not funny, really. Nobody likes everyone--just a matter of taste.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:50 a.m. CST

    simpsonian...

    by Hipshot

    Smith isn't exploiting his race. He may well be exploiting a specific stereotype or mode of behavior, but John Wayne did that too.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Riprat

    by Dan westy

    Do us a favour while we're packing up our 'buring crosses' get to close to the flame and burn to death. By blatantly calling everyone racist in this thread I think you have proved that you sir are the racist. Try to see the world without colour and predjudice maybe you'll find enlightenment.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:53 a.m. CST

    I just think its revealing to see someone's id on display.

    by sasquatch_with_a_swatch_watch

    All I got from this review was the sort of gross feeling of watching a guy settle down into a movie theater seat with all sort of preconceived baggage about some kind of shuffle-footed Will Smith schtick... using the word "black", talking about where he came from, tying it all together magically to some Fresh Prince shit, is a HUGE leap, and a really, really uncomfortable snarky way to start off a review for a film aimed at 13-year-old boys. What I'm saying, is you don't talk about some supposed history of a dude playing studio-exec-suggested stereotypes without backing it up with concrete facts. Especially not a man in his forties whose initial film successes were HUGE money makers out the gate, and as a producer and a creative force in his own right- with major, major studio clout- probably has to listen to no one. Draw the line as narrow or as broad as you want, to suggest a person's innate character, that they are drawing from to flesh out a film performance- yes, the man's "West Philadephia-ness- makes you feel icky or annoyed, makes readers of this site feel icky and annoyed. It's a window into an uncomfortable and provincial part of a man's brain. If a dude is just being himself, as jovial and broad as that may seem to you, is annoying or stereotypical to some people, CHECK yourself, because the work of Tyler Perry, the sketches on In Living Colour are full of what white liberal watchdogs might consider "broad stereotypes". That's hardly possible considering their writers were black people in the first place. For more on people boo-hooing their supposed idea of "what stereotypes are", look at Spike Lee's attack on Tarantino, and the response that he and Sam Jackson lobbied back. Men In Black are fun movies, I'm a little psyched to maybe go to the drive-in and check this out on a triple feature with some other popcorn flicks. I don't get much fun out of reading the Kidd's reviews, his obvious love of cinema notwithstanding... that's just the way it is. I come to this site for true celluloid romance, not the bullshit.

  • May 25, 2012, 11:57 a.m. CST

    But Hipshot...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...even assuming you are correct the phrasing that should have been used would have run closer to... 'even with the changes in this third installment Smith still wasn't quite willing to let go of all the familiar tropes of the character he played in the first two Men in Black, the character that has helped shape some of his most popular roles. Shizzle, indeed'. Or in a more positive light...'Smith's character hasn't been completely domesticated by his years in the sunglasses. He can still manage a shizzle when the situation calls on it (and give a shout out to the on-screen persona that made him famous)'. Although I would argue, and I believe I can defend pretty well, that the particular line referred to is neither linked to Philly any more than it would be to any other urban center and that taken in its totality characters who would naturally speak that sort of dialogue make up a rather small percentage of Smith's on-screen credits. Or something along those lines. And I know you're smart enough to understand that. Like I said, ignorance is a fine defense here (and really I think the truth) but pretending that wasn't a bit awful isn't. And God knows, I've written plenty of horrible things myself, in ignorance, and said even more. I'm not condemning Kidd, but I'm also not going to try to pretend that didn't happen.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:04 p.m. CST

    You're the smrtest person on the interwebz

    by Dan westy

    I have a burning cross simply due to my hatred of religion, colour has nothing to do with it.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Wow

    by Rick Webb

    You guys are jackasses. Please have your stories of actual racism ready, such as denying someone a job or hanging them from a tree because they're black. It's obvious that none of you exist in any sort of real world. Christ, whatever you do, don't label someone a loud, obnoxious black guy when all they do in action/comedies is play a loud, obnoxious black guy! And have you no compassion, Kidd, calling a black man "a black man?" Fucking morons.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST

    The mindless racism in this review and talkback must stop.

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST

    nightarrows

    by Chadley BeBay

    You are not correct. Sorry bud, loud and obnoxious is not his go-to act. It just isn't. Sorry you are ignorant, I truly am, but I didn't make you that way. And I am not a simpleton, I am able to make comprehensive observations and assemble them into well constructed and supported opinions. You have no clue how the world works. And again, I wish you did, sorry about that, but I can't help.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST

    I've guess I'm a ripratcist.

    by Aragorn II

    Because every riprat I've ever encountered is a complete fucking moron. Seriously, every single one.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:17 p.m. CST

    billythekidd...

    by Blue_Demon

    Don't explain yourself to these tools. Oversensitive pricks, the lot of them. I understood what you meant. There IS a stereotype that studios put out.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Truly I can spell "white supremacy," at least. Dillhole.

    by Aragorn II

    The internet weeps that even a little of its bandwidth is taken up by this moron.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:20 p.m. CST

    blue_demon

    by Chadley BeBay

    You are wrong, and you don't even know it. Ignorance is bliss, eh? Hahahah, you fucking twats defending this garbage.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:21 p.m. CST

    Totalreality, you had and go an bring up Trayvon Martin, di'n't you?

    by Joe Plumber

    "Look at the poor target dummy in Florida. A thug-goon in a hoodie through and through." So, this poor kid deserved to be shot and killed simply because he was wearing a hoodie?! I guess every single teenager regardless of race and gender deserves to die based on your logic, because every kid wears hoodies. You're a freaking idiot!

  • May 25, 2012, 12:22 p.m. CST

    On a less obsessive note

    by Rick Webb

    Has anyone noticed that Kidd actually *liked* MIB3?

  • May 25, 2012, 12:26 p.m. CST

    I'm calling the Kidd Archie Bunker from now on...

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 12:26 p.m. CST

    Riprat the racist: now with more filth

    by Dan westy

    Good job, you've proven my point that you're racist. Generalizing an entire country because of white people. I won't comment further; you are beneath me.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:28 p.m. CST

    It's funny...

    by Sean1701

    White people being called out for being white is OK, but call out a black man for being black and you're racist? Will Smith voiced a character in "Shark Tale" with this classic line: "A lot of white fish can't do it." Tell me, how is that OK?

  • No? Then how do you know if he was a goon? Because he wore a hoodie? Like ever other teenager. Because he liked Arizona Iced Tea and Skittle? Like every other teeanger. Because he had pot in his blood system. Like 70% of teenagers. Also, a drug known mostly for it sedative non-violent effects on the mind and body. Because, he ran away from lunatic with a gun strapped to his hip who was chasing him? Like any sane person would do. No? Then how do you know he was "a thug-goon in a hoodie through and through"? I think we all know the answer and it is not one of the above.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:32 p.m. CST

    He's scientist brother like in undercover brother

    by UltraTron

  • May 25, 2012, 12:32 p.m. CST

    chadley bebay...sorry son...

    by Blue_Demon

    Most people choose to be offended. There is a stereotype hollywood puts out. Hell...it's even talked about by actors - being asked to act more "Black" in some films. As a Mexican guy, I've had people say to me (after talking to me on the phone), "Shit, you don't sound Mexican." I know exactly what they mean and it has NEVER ticked me off. Why? Because there are Hispaic people out there with accents. I get what they're saying. Go back to race-baiting somewhere else...

  • May 25, 2012, 12:34 p.m. CST

    I found NOTHING in that review even close to Racism

    by D o o d

    There are stereotypes in hollywood for all races, the kidd mentioned one that is being used in this turgid movie. So what..?

  • May 25, 2012, 12:35 p.m. CST

    chadley bebay

    by NightArrows

    I have no idea how the world works? Because I think Will Smith's go-to schtick is loud and obnoxious? How is that a well-constructed and supported opinion? You really are fucking worthless. Hey, guess what? My favourite colour is blue, I guess that would also be a piece in your investigation, huh Columbo? Enjoy your thoughts asshole.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:36 p.m. CST

    riprat

    by thedoctor28

    has to be joking people, just to get a rise out of the lot of ya. This person is going over the top to keep it going as long as possible just to see how long it can be kept going. Way to much time some people have, whew... You go riprat - , thedoctor28 has to be racist because doctors _______________.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:38 p.m. CST

    thedoctor28 is completly right.

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 12:39 p.m. CST

    sean1701...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I'd point out he said 'a lot' of white fish couldn't do it. Not that no white fish could do it. But whatever 'it' was, I want to thank you, on behalf of all white fish, for manning the ramparts in the defense of an aquatic environment that sees no color. Are we not all tangled in the same nets? Do we not all bleed red blood when the hooks puncture our mouths? Do not all our bellies point skyward when we no longer swim? All fish, those who can 'do it' and those who...well...a lot of them can't...are one beneath the waves. Except for barracuda. Barracuda are bastards.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:40 p.m. CST

    hey, guys. What's going on in...

    by schadenfreudian

    (reads talkback) Oh... uh... (Backs out of room. Closes door behind him)

  • that a genetic trait slows cognitive response by a large factor. Black people can learn as much as anyone but at a slower pace. The results of these studies surprised no one. Hey Asians can build cars but they know themselves that they can't drive them. It's time blacks conceded to other superior genetic brains. It's time everyone on the planet realized their fucking role. Thank god I'm black. It may have taken me longer to think as good as whitey but now that I'm here I have a huge cock and the brains to back it.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:47 p.m. CST

    so the kidd liked this...

    by JaredP

    but not dark shadows? WTF? dark shadows was a fun, smart and scary film that payed homage to the original, not matter what anyone else thinks

  • May 25, 2012, 12:48 p.m. CST

    The Kidd

    by Sigmar25

    isn't racist. you guys who think so are just fags and spooks.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:48 p.m. CST

    riprat

    by Rick Webb

    Well played

  • May 25, 2012, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Anyone that thinks Billy is racist is a fucking retard...

    by gringostar

    and boy do I hate retards.

  • May 25, 2012, 12:50 p.m. CST

    see what I did there...

    by gringostar

  • May 25, 2012, 12:55 p.m. CST

    I think this subject is closed

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 12:56 p.m. CST

    see you later................................................ racists

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 1 p.m. CST

    @red ned lynch

    by Sean1701

    My point was that his character in the film made a generalized statement. It can be seen as offensive but I don't think the kidd was being racist in what he wrote, I think he was generalizing Will Smith's career. Wili does make a career out of being a loudmouth.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Ultratron...maybe not racist, but also...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...of questionable accuracy. Here's this, some highlights from the most recent and comprehensive assessment done by the Brookings Institute (can't get much more conservative than them). ' --When black or mixed-race children are raised in white rather than black homes, their preadolescent test scores rise dramatically. Black adoptees' scores seem to fall in adolescence, but this is what we would expect if, as seems likely, their social and cultural environment comes to resemble that of other black adolescents and becomes less like that of the average white adolescent. --Even nonverbal IQ scores are sensitive to environmental change. Scores on nonverbal IQ tests have risen dramatically throughout the world since the 1930s. The average white scored higher on the Stanford-Binet in 1978 than 82 percent of whites who took the test in 1932. Such findings reinforce the implications of adoption studies: large environmental changes can have a large impact on test performance. --Black-white differences in academic achievement have also narrowed throughout the twentieth century. The best trend data come from the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), which has been testing seventeen-year-olds since 1971 and has repeated many of the same items year after year. Figure 1-2 shows that the black-white reading gap narrowed from 1.25 standard deviations in 1971 to 0.69 standard deviations in 1996. The math gap fell from 1.33 to 0.89 standard deviations. When Min-Hsiung Huang and Robert Hauser analyzed vocabulary scores for adults born between 1909 and 1969, the black-white gap also narrowed by half.' And this from American Psychologist: 'The poor performance of Black children on IQ tests and in school has been hypothesized to arise from (a) genetic racial differences or (b) cultural/environmental disadvantages. To separate genetic factors from rearing conditions, 130 Black and interracial children adopted by advantaged White families were studied. The socially classified Black adoptees, whose natural parents were educationally average, scored above the IQ and the school achievement mean of the White population. Biological children of the adoptive parents scored even higher. Genetic and environmental determinants of differences among the Black and interracial adoptees were largely confounded. The high IQ scores of the socially classified Black adoptees indicate malleability for IQ under rearing conditions that are relevant to the tests and the schools.' I suppose since its main thrust is all sciency it may be considered by some to be suspiciously liberal.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Through all the racist remarks, we seem to forget one thing...

    by TheMachinist

    Kidd, BILLY THE FUCKING KIDD, Actually enjoyed this movie. ENJOYED A MEN IN BLACK MOVIE.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:06 p.m. CST

    sean...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I know, but as soon as I read your post the phrase barracudas are bastards was all I could think of. I had to write that.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:06 p.m. CST

    The Kidd is mostly likely wolvist.

    by Aragorn II

    Because it's been a week and he still hasn't posted who won those blu-ray copies of The Grey.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Oh for fuck's sake! Close this fucking thread too!

    by MOOMBA is HERE

    Again with the racism shit? Close this thread, please! In fact, ban all posters who even brought racism up!

  • May 25, 2012, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Racist = improper term even to this day

    by Last_of_the_Emurites

    It still amazes me how we still use the term "racist" when we are speaking of the human race. If we call black people, white people, Mexicans, Spaniards, Cambodians, and Icelanders all different "races," are we not calling ourselves all NOT part of the same "human race?" The HUMAN RACE. We are all part of it. "Prejudice" would be a more proper term.

  • What's wrong? Mom didn't give you all your allowances yet?

  • May 25, 2012, 1:21 p.m. CST

    riprat=troll

    by A_Banned_Apart

    And I am quite comfortable being a trollist. Ban him.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:23 p.m. CST

    I'm not a troll. And to call me one is racist sir.

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 1:24 p.m. CST

    We see your racist tendencies are showing.

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 1:41 p.m. CST

    C'mon, folks

    by wellgoodgravy

    Kidd's not racist. He has valid points about stereotypical African American comedic actors. Really, how many of you white guys tune in to those CW shows? But it sure would've helped his cause if he'd mentioned some effective non-comedic roles he's done in the past like 'Ali' or 'I Am Legend'.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:41 p.m. CST

    What this movie needs is a cameo by Neil deGrasse Tyson

    by atlatl

    to help balance out the jive talkin' loud blackness and remind Americans that not all black people act like Tucker, Lawrence & Smith.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:42 p.m. CST

    This is why your country is still fucked

    by SminkyPinky

    Everyone so quick to shout "RACIST" and jump on someone. You all hate each other so much under the skin you can't wait to find a hateful trait in each other, be it racist, sexist or political (surely one of the most extremely polarised in the entire Western world - no middle ground with you people). I don't agree that this article was racist at all. Yes, it brought up ethnicity but it also brought up a culture and depictions of these can fall directly into stereotyping and it is the use and manipulation of that that can be seen as being at best naive.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:45 p.m. CST

    totalreality is a racist. of the worst order.

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 1:45 p.m. CST

    ripart

    by don

    I thought I flushed you away this morning!

  • May 25, 2012, 1:47 p.m. CST

    "flush"

    by don

  • May 25, 2012, 1:48 p.m. CST

    ONCE AGAIN, KIDD...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...you've proved how clueless you are. Shit film. Utter shit.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Wow, that one little turd won't go away!

    by don

  • And he refuses to flush away.

  • May 25, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST

    Its the Kidds fault and totalreality

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • May 25, 2012, 1:58 p.m. CST

    russlellcrowesbeerbelly farts and you smell penis.

    by Lloyd Fenton

  • so, for now on the childd will vs movies will have more racist undertones!

  • Ok, maybe apart from Quint. Really hate Beaks, to be honest. I don't even have to say anything about Harry anymore.

  • May 25, 2012, 2:27 p.m. CST

    "flush"

    by don

  • May 25, 2012, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Bunch of pussy ass liberal wimps...

    by Short Round

    ...and that's putting it lightly. Go take a xanax and call your therapists.

  • May 25, 2012, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Riprat/irc-hollywood/others with too much time on their hands

    by TonyWendice

    It's guys like you who RUIN message boards and make them no fun. This is a movie website, not the World Who's-Got-The-Biggest-Soapbox Championships. Congratulations to you and all the other Debbie Downer Talkbackers who use these pages to piss on Harry, The Kidd, and anyone else for reasons having NOTHING to do with....oh, what was it that we come hear to read about again....? Oh yeah, movies! Could Kidd have chosen different words with his initial description of Will? Sure! Is he a racist? I don't believe so. Why? Because I can actually understand the concept of fucking CONTEXT! AND I didn't stop reading right at that sentence, to head right to my keyboard to make everyone know how important I am to the survival of the western world. People like you make me nuts. Almost as bad are the rest of you tools jumping on the "Fire Kidd" bandwagon. Ask yourselves a question: are you MORE or LESS passionate about who's going to be the next president? If the answer is less, slowly back away from the keyboard, change out of your sweatpants and into a pair of jeans, head to the store and pick up a newspaper. As a starting point, the Democrat is the black guy on the front page and the Republican is the white guy. If exposure to the sun for the first time since you had to take those few steps into the backyard when you dropped your Boba Fett action figure out your bedroom window that time is too much, just head back to the basement and turn on Fox News. Voila! Big, obnoxious white guys! What's that? I'm on MY soapbox? I know! Isn't it ANNOYING??

  • Does that make you feel any better?

  • May 25, 2012, 2:41 p.m. CST

    lol at people saying we're ruining the TBs

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    1. you havent been here long since TBs are always derailed 2. we're discussing his review where he made a racist comment. we're not discussing anal sex with celebrities (which happens a lot) 3. people complaining about the lack of discussion with the movie, but in the first paragraph of a "movie review" the childd spent his time discussing race. i dont think any other movie review for mib3 mentions "the ghetto" or the fact that will smith is playing an loud, obnoxious BLACK guy 4. shut the fuck with your bitching. this is aicn, if we stayed on the actual topic, aicn would have ceased to exist years ago. the "derailment" of a TB is what actually drives the TB 5. theres other actual movie sites where comments are about the movie. i suggest you try slashfilm, an actual movie site that is awesome (whereas aicn sucks as a movie site, but has the TBs which usually can be awesome)

  • May 25, 2012, 2:41 p.m. CST

    zombie_fatigue

    by don

    shut the fuck up, ass wipe.

  • May 25, 2012, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Great review, Kidd

    by Kremzeek

    I've pretty much agreed with every review you've posted so far. So, after Capone's scathing reaction, this might be kinda cool. I, like you, have no real connection to this franchise - even the first film. It's fun if I'm in the right mood, but that's about it. I can take it or leave it. So, it interests me a bit that you're in the same boat. I may want to see MIB3 after all. But it's definitely a Netflixer.

  • May 25, 2012, 2:51 p.m. CST

    And NOTHING in this review is racist, dipshits

    by Kremzeek

    He talks about how he feels black actors are forced to play these stereotypical roles because audiences seem to want that. He paints this as a negative thing he wishes would change, and says good things about Smith - if you actually bother to read the review. So, I don't care how much your little feelings got hurt, nothing he said was racist in the slightest. Read the review again.

  • May 25, 2012, 2:51 p.m. CST

    You stupid, stupid people...

    by lightwriter

    Saying someone is a "an obnoxious white person" or "an obnoxious black person" is not racist. Do you even know what racist means?? It means you label a person or an entire group of people because of their ethnicity. If a person says, "all black people are (blank)" or "he's (blank) because he's white" then that is totally racist. But no one said that. I personally don't care about The Kidd one way or another, but get your shit straight before you attack someone. If a writer thinks that will smith is obnoxious, he can write that. If a writer says that will smith is black, he can write that. If a writer thinks that will smith is an obnoxious black man.... HE CAN WRITE THAT. You stupid fucking people. Its like no one is allowed to use a negative adjective in the same sentence as an ethnic type....

  • May 25, 2012, 3:03 p.m. CST

    yourstepdaddy

    by TonyWendice

    I've been a member of the site for 10 years actually, I just choose to sound off only when people get PARTICULARLY obnoxious. I didn't wake up and find the internet this morning, but thanks oh so much for your guidance. Let me ask you: is there one central website I could go to and say....I dunno...search for topics related to movies? I wonder if anyone's invented that yet? Anyway....so it's a racist comment because you say so? I think his explanation for using that term rings true. Do you know Kidd personally? Neither do I. You don't know he's racist any more than I know he's not, but that doesn't change the fact that you're wrong and I'm right. Unlike a huge chunk of you bozos, I actually find some movie topics on this site interesting, so forgive me if I'm not jumping for joy just because this particular string doesn't include assfucking. Oh sorry, should I have numbered my points? I'm so new to this here intra-web! 1. Blow 2. Me

  • May 25, 2012, 3:14 p.m. CST

    russellcrowesbeerbelly

    by P

    Not gonna happen, friend. But thanks for playing.

  • May 25, 2012, 3:22 p.m. CST

    nobody in this talkback knows what racism is.

    by Arcadian Del Sol

  • May 25, 2012, 3:54 p.m. CST

    PEOPLE ARE SO FUCKING STUPID...

    by Johnny Wrong

    ...the "racism"£ arguments I've heard this week on this site. Seriously. Get a grip, people. You can find racism/sexism/whatever ism you like ANYWHERE if you really WANT it to be there. Most of us normal people read this review and know EXACTLY what Kidd meant by describing Smith as he did.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:05 p.m. CST

    red ned lynch

    by Hipshot

    I'm not saying the phrasing couldn't have been different. Any phrasing could. I'm saying that acknowledging that there are cultural behavior patterns that make their way into entertainment is not "racist" unless you imply that this applies to an entire group, and that they are inferior. He didn't do that. Saying something that could be interpreted as Insensitivity X doesn't necessarily mean a person is a racist, sexist, or whatever. It just means they didn't phrase something the way you think they should have. I have a higher standard than that for calling someone "racist." There are talkbackers who pass that standard. At one point I questioned whether Quint was excluding black people from his photo gallery, and it was pointed out to me that I was quite wrong. So I ain't shy. I also have no reason to jump on Kidd and think that the troll factor (not you) is very, very high today. When you are too careless with the term "racist" you add fuel to people who think that people who use that term are simply looking for trouble...which is like crying "wolf." When real racism raises its head, no one believes it anymore.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:09 p.m. CST

    zombie_fatigue no, you're no friend.

    by don

    You're still just an ass wipe. "Thanks for playing." My what an ironically detached little ass wipe you are!

  • May 25, 2012, 4:23 p.m. CST

    An immediate quibble in the first paragraph...

    by FluffyUnbound

    In INDEPENDENCE DAY, Smith doesn't play a loud obnoxious negro. The character he plays is actually kind of a straight arrow, who salutes smartly and worries when the President sees him with a cigar. He has no more arrogant one-liners than Arnold would have had in the same role.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Loud obnoxious black guy

    by Timmid

    Surely the racist implication here stems from the last two words. Never have I seen Will Smiths characterisations described as loud or obnoxious. I was under the misapprehension he's an enormously popular actor who plays characters people like. So I can only assume that the loud and obnoxious is just Kidds assumption based on the fact he's a "black guy". And lets just make oblique reference to Independence Day, The pursuit of Happiness and I am Legend. They obviously don't fit the Kidds argument.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:29 p.m. CST

    BTW about the Zimmerman - Martin thing...

    by FluffyUnbound

    ...everybody here who's been here a long time knows that I am a crazy right-wing libertarian. Nobody is more pro-gun than me. But I hope Zimmerman gets the max and takes a shank in prison. I really do. What people don't understand about the Zimmerman case is that MARTIN is the one who was entitled to use force in self-defense. So it doesn't really matter if the autopsy showed his knuckles were bruised or if Zimmerman's nose was broken. Zimmerman, without any authority at all, armed himself and stalked someone on a darkened street and attempted to falsely imprison them by threat. That means that Martin was entitled to employ force against Zimmerman until he could safely retreat. Heck, Florida's Stand Your Ground law gave MARTIN the right to use deadly force if he thought it was necessary. All you have to do is ask yourself what would have happened if Martin was a 16 year old white girl. If the police showed up and Zimmerman said: 'Well you see, officer, I was following this 16 year old white girl around on this dark street at night. And then I decided that I didn't want her to leave, because every time I follow 16 year old white girls around on the street they get away. So I charged over to her and told her she wasn't allowed to leave. And can you believe it? The bitch slapped me. Look at my face, you can see the marks! So I shot that bitch dead. It was self-defense, I tell ya!' If Zimmerman had tried to sell that story, the police wouldn't have waited a month to arrest him and he wouldn't have one single defender in the press or in the GOP media. It's that simple.

  • May 25, 2012, 4:43 p.m. CST

    fluffyunbound, thanks!

    by don

    It's nice to hear the truth about the Zimmerman case from someone who was there, so thank you!

  • May 25, 2012, 5:22 p.m. CST

    He sounds "black?" No wait! He sounds "white!"

    by Pixelsmack

    Definitely white.

  • May 25, 2012, 5:46 p.m. CST

    @shermdawg

    by Kremzeek

    Go ahead and call it "misjudging" all you want. It's the Kidd's OPINION that Smith's earlier roles fell into a certain stereotype. He goes on to say Smith is better than that and he's glad to see him shine in MIB3. Now, your OPINION may be that Kidd's reaction to Smith's earlier work is wrong, misguided, etc etc. That's fine. It still changes nothing. The review is not racist in any way, shape, or form. At all.

  • May 25, 2012, 6:01 p.m. CST

    WATCH HOLLYWOOD SHUFFLE

    by down75

  • I was watching reruns of Saturday Night Live on Netflix this week, and a certain sketch starring Tim Meadows and Molly Shannon came on. It's an episode from 1995 and Paul Reiser is the host. In the sketch, Reiser's character is presenting a new commercial his staff had prepared for the marketing department of a toothpaste company. He gives a brief pitch and then plays the proposed commercial to them. The commercial consists of Tim Meadows saying goodbye to his wife (Molly Shannon) before leaving to play golf with his buds who are currently waiting for him in the car. Meadows kisses Shannon goodbye... but then never stops. The kissing just keeps going and going and going - Energizer style. They must make out for a good 90 seconds straight. This, of course, makes the marketing team a bit uncomfortable, as the SNL audience laughs. Now, I'm watching this sketch thinking: Ok, this is pretty funny. They just keep kissing and won't stop. This isn't something most people would want to see in a commercial. Hehe. Kinda funny. Then, as the sketch progresses, it becomes obvious the reason they're so uncomfortable isn't because the kiss is so long, but because it's a black guy making out with a white woman. It then donned on me: The race issue NEVER even crossed my mind. Not even for half a second. I'm a white guy and was married to a black/Japanese woman for 4 years, so this kind of thing just doesn't enter my mind, I guess. So, I started thinking: I don't think many people would even blink at this anymore. But in 1995... wow, it was still a major force in the American public perception. The sketch was funny once I caught on, but I really had to take myself out of the modern world and get back into a '90s mindset. I hadn't remembered it still being such an issue in the '90s, but hindsight is always 20/20, as they say. But, now, on the other hand... we have people who want to jump on a review that's been taken way out of context. I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way now. Time to find a happy medium for being PC.

  • May 25, 2012, 6:25 p.m. CST

    Whoever is responsible for moderating these talkbacks

    by Mr Kite

    Can you please start moderating! Any comments not directly concerning a movie or the movie industry should be deleted. This site gets steadily worse. Read through this talkback. Its full of false accusations of racism against one of your staff by a minority of talkbakers and nothing is done. This type of deliberate trolling and attention seeking has become commonplace on AICN over recent years and is destroying what used to be a brilliant site.

  • May 25, 2012, 6:33 p.m. CST

    kremzeek, pretty sure I never claimed he was racist.

    by Shermdawg

    He's still wrong though. And mr kite, a lot of these talkbacker complaints are warranted after Kidd's review and comments whether you agree with them or not. Not everyone posts to troll around here.

  • May 25, 2012, 6:33 p.m. CST

    Will Smith is black?!!?!?!?!

    by Mrhazard

    OMG!!!! I NEVER KNEW!?!?!?!?!?!

  • This statement alone should've had the article entering AICN's infamous Phantom Zone out of sheer stupidity.

  • May 25, 2012, 6:50 p.m. CST

    lol at racist trolls... they're so cute!

    by Mrhazard

  • May 25, 2012, 6:55 p.m. CST

    Here's the problem...

    by P

    As has been pointed out by many on here, the majority of Will Smith's characters don't resemble Kidd's remark, so it was a weird comment to make. Let's put it this way: Would Kidd phrase it that way to Smith himself in an interview? Perhaps but I doubt it.

  • May 25, 2012, 7:03 p.m. CST

    Never seen so many people trying to draw a foul

    by HypeEndsHere

    outside an NBA game.

  • I read Kidd's review and while I cannot speak for all black people I as a black man did not read one iota of racism in the article. The main person who is creating a frenzy out of this is this Riprat character. He is just trying to incite a firestorm because of whatever vendetta he has against Kidd. Say what you want about Kidd's reviews but to claim that he is racist based on what was written is a blatant lie and a personal attack. Don't like Kidd then get the fuck off this site and stay out.

  • May 25, 2012, 7:20 p.m. CST

    zombie_fatigue

    by ray a

    I have every confidence that Kidd would say this to his face but of course you would word it differently as a conversation is not the same as writing a critique plus it would not be in a confrontational way which neither was Kidd's comments.

  • Its funny how much the talkbackers were spewing so much hatred towards Will and his kids back when The Karate Kid came out but now the talkbackers want to defend Will Smith as though he was called the N word. Nothing and I MEAN NOTHING that Kidd wrong came close to being racist as the remarks that was made during the Karate Kid came out. Fucking hypocrites! This isn't about Will Smith at all it just a few dickheads who are trying to start a witchhunt! Be glad that I'm not in charge or your posts would all be deleted and all of you who are guilty banned.

  • May 25, 2012, 8:04 p.m. CST

    "contractor"

    by CodeName

  • http://youtu.be/JK2mFVC4eks

  • May 25, 2012, 8:16 p.m. CST

    "to court"

    by CodeName

  • May 25, 2012, 8:34 p.m. CST

    Backseat moderation is just as bad as labeling Kidd a racist.

    by Shermdawg

    Especially when claiming anyone having a problem with what he said as partaking in a witch hunt. Speaking for myself, and I've been here for damn near ever, the only time I've ever gave any contributor shit is when it was deserved....and it's certainly deserved in this instance...as many sensible people have brought up without taking things too far. The roles Kidd mentioned do not fit the mold he pegged them for. In fact, while discussing his review elsewhere it was brought to my attention that ID4's Captain Steven Hiller was in fact a landmark role given it was one of the first non-stereotypical lead roles for an African American in an event film of that magnitude. Smith wasn't playing some athlete, or tribesman, swindler, or someone with an ulterior motive. He was the straight and narrow fighter pilot / family man, and while it may not have been all that deep of a role.....and who'd expect it to be? It was fucking ID4....it wasn't the loud, obnoxious, black guy act Kidd said it was. Far from it in fact. Saying otherwise is a bit ignorant and as we've seen leads to people reacting to those comments foolishly.

  • May 25, 2012, 8:44 p.m. CST

    Shermdawg, do you have a six-pack?

    by CodeName

    I'm just wondering.

  • May 25, 2012, 9:03 p.m. CST

    shermdawg, well said. Let's move on.

    by P

  • May 25, 2012, 10:21 p.m. CST

    So uummm...after all that,is MIB 3 being recommended this weekend?

    by kenchun24

    ...sounds like fun.

  • That sounds dirty.

  • May 26, 2012, 1:55 a.m. CST

    White people love Will Smith

    by Capt. StrideR

    Because he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X. Honestly speaking, I think Kidd confused the word "obnoxious" for "outspoken." Kanye West is obnoxious, Will Smith is not. I don't get the dislike for MIB though, since the point is to see this new extraordinary universe through a new recruit's eyes. It's a buddy cop film with extra terrestrials, and plays out as such. I read a column written by Bill Simmons the othr day that essentially says the same things Kidd is trying to say, but better: The problem is Will Smith hasn't taken any roles that necessitated his growth as an actor, always preferring to take the "Mr. Fourth of July" route, and has essentially wasted his charisma and talent on profitable, often funny but ultimately forgettable action flicks, ever since teasing us with how complex he could become in Six Degrees of Separation.

  • May 26, 2012, 2:21 a.m. CST

    "you flew off the handle like a fuckin soccer mom."

    by hulkiest

    Either I'm out of the loop and never heard that one, or Houston500 is a comedic genius. I just hope the soccer mom's reading the site aren't offended. Meanwhile it's silly to start the chest-thumping and finger-pointing about racism when it was simply an incorrect or debatable observation on The Kidd's part. Chris Tucker, as I recall in The Fifth Element wasn't playing an obnoxious black man. He was playing a wrong-headed and completely nails-to-the chalkboard irritating character regardless of skin color. Like, "in what dimension is this funny?" Pretty much fitting in with the rest of that insufferable movie. Meanwhile Will Smith started his film career playing a gay con-artist in Six Degrees of Separation. And he was amazingly good in Pursuit of Happyness playing a regular, non-cocky honorable Dad, and I would hardly consider Pursuit some art house hit. I think someone said it best, he's a black man playing cocky in his blockbusters which is the equivalent of a white man like Tom Cruise playing cocky in Top Gun. I never observed Will Smith to be playing a black stereotype rather Will Smith playing cool, confident MOVIE STAR Will Smith as Agent J and whatever the pilot's name was in LAME ASS CLICHE-RIDDEN INDEPENDENCE DAY. ("You'll never get to NASA because you're dating a stripper!" ????!!!) And how Kidd can pick on Will Smith when you got Judd Hirsch practically channeling Mel Brooks' thousand year old man or Randy Quaid playing Garden variety hick #101 in that cheesefest, is the real puzzler, reeking of a writer who's trying to be fearlessly objective, but yeah, stepped in a needless pile of crap. Racist? No. Wrong? Pretty much...Still, I wish if people are going to go into overly sensitive mode and call for people's jobs that the site would ban all sorts of dumb comments and opinions. If you want thought control and free speech trampled upon, start with that of the sexist dimwits who make comments about lewd acts with Charlize Theron and the like. And I think the words "douche bag" should be banned. Not because they're offensive, but because they're totally over-used.

  • May 26, 2012, 3:28 a.m. CST

    Chris Tucker would disagree with you...

    by Queefer Sutherland

    ...except he'a a loud obnoxious black guy!!!

  • May 26, 2012, 5:57 a.m. CST

    Wow this got out of hand. I don't think the Kidd was being racist.

    by happybunni

    You people take things too literally. And by you people, I mean you talkbackers. We all know what Kidd was trying to say, and that's Will gets typecast in the high energy constantly talking making weird loud noises roles. obnoxious isn't a word I'd use to describe Will Smith though, as I don't find him as that. Loved him in Seven Pounds especially, and can't wait for ID423D

  • May 26, 2012, 8:33 a.m. CST

    Quote Kevin Smith...

    by Tom Fremgen

    "I never knew true bitterness until the internet."

  • ...someone get Eric Michael Dyson fast, because this talkback is full of very limited perspectives. As a Will Smith fan, I applaud The Kidd for having enough understanding to at least recognize and discuss black stereotypes in film because they've been getting shoved down our throats in one form or another since before "Birth of a Nation." I find it sad that there are people who do not understand that there are plenty of us who prefer Smith's work in "I am Legend," "The Pursuit of Happiness," "Six Degrees of Separation," "Ali" and the like because his performances do not lean on the film tradition of black caricature (as he does often in ID4, the Bad Boys films, and to a lesser extent, the first two MIB's). The Kidd was stretching with the "loud, obnoxious black guy" bit to be sure. Pretty insensitive towards Will smith, if not the African-American community. As someone pointed out above, I always took Will Smith to be playing as pleasant as he could, albeit with an influx of naive, youthful, arrogance. But the folks calling for The Kidd's blood, or saying they don't see racism and that's just their parents problem need to grow up. Racism is in full effect, as evidenced by the people in the talkback who can not even bear to discuss it, threatening to leave the site, or throwing stones at people who are actually less racist than they are. If we can't talk about it, how will we ever have enough understanding to work on it. The Kidd is the least of your worries. Try boycotting the next Bad Boy's film instead. Michael Bay has never filmed a person of color without contributing to the oppression of their kind. He can even make robots racist. Will Smith is on record about how contrived his choices are in the name of "crowd pleasing." Is it more racist to think that his stereotypical roles are a choice of his, and he is feeding the audience what they want? Or is it more racist to think Will Smith the person is more like he is in those said stereotypical roles, than he is in less "conventional" roles like "I am Legend," "Six Degrees of Seperation," etc. Racism has a twist ending. It was you.

  • May 26, 2012, 2:50 p.m. CST

    so just like Avengers then

    by dioxholsters_clone

  • May 26, 2012, 3:19 p.m. CST

    these movies are corny and stupid

    by WINONA_RYDERS_PUSSY_JUICE

  • May 26, 2012, 3:23 p.m. CST

    is darky less racist?

    by WINONA_RYDERS_PUSSY_JUICE

  • May 26, 2012, 5:09 p.m. CST

    RussellCrowesBeerBelly, don't be a fucking child.

    by FluffyUnbound

    Dude, I give money to the Innocence Project every year, so I'm more than inclined to look at any prosecution case with a jaundiced eye, but the standard some people are applying to the Zimmerman case is absolutely absurd. They're applying a standard of doubt they would NEVER apply in any routine case, if there wasn't a Gun-And-Race angle to work. It is beyond dispute that Zimmerman armed himself. It is beyond dispute that Zimmerman stalked Martin. Zimmerman disputes that he approached Martin. But the 911 call allows a reasonable juror to infer that he got off the phone intending to approach Martin. If we were listening to a 911 domestic violence call, and a husband got on the line and said 'I am getting off the phone now because that bitch wife of mine is trying to leave the apartment!' we would be allowed to infer that the husband tried to stop the wife from leaving the apartment. It wouldn't matter if no one witnessed it. If the husband killed the wife and claimed self-defense, a jury would be entitled to disregard his statement as self-serving. Just as we can regard Zimmerman's statement as self-serving. Zimmerman on tape declares his anger that Martin might get away, and then gets off the phone. That means we are entitled to infer that he pursued Martin to stop him from leaving. As a result, every element of this case is analogous to my hypothetical with the 16 year old girl. Adult male arms himself, prowls dark street at night, pursues a minor, becomes angry that the minor is leaving the area, pursues minor, tries to prevent minor from leaving, kills minor when a fight starts as a result. I don't have to be a witness to be able to know, or reasonably infer, that this is what happened. Zimmerman just wants to insert a page into the story where Martin attacked him, but to me it doesn't, or shouldn't, matter if that happened. If an armed man stalks me on a dark street and threateningly declares that I can't leave, I am legally entitled to fuck that motherfucker up. He is in the legal position of a mugger or kidnapper. Zimmerman may not have realized that he was in that position, but that doesn't matter. Because Martin wasn't actually a burglar, Zimmerman's fantasy cop routine was, in legal terms, menacing, or false imprisonment by threat. If you arm yourself and chase me on the street because you think I'm a burglar and you're WRONG, I get to use force to protect myself against you and get away from you. Period. If you want to play fantasy cop, you have to always be right, 100% right, or the people you're fucking with ARE ENTITLED TO physically resist you and you get to shut up and like it. If Zimmerman can defend himself by claiming self-defense, then if someone fights back against a mugger, the mugger should be allowed to kill them and claim self-defense too.

  • So you're comparing Zimmerman to a mugger or a man who calls his girlfriend a bitch before killing her?! How are these senarios connected?!! I don't even want to waste my time arguing your points. You're a shining example of why this country is going down in flames.

  • May 27, 2012, 2:02 a.m. CST

    fluffyunbound is 100% correct

    by Carolinamaestro

    If Zimmerman is allowed to use the self-defense excuse, then by that logic, I can kill anyone I want by arming myself, intentionally provoking a fist fight with an unarmed person. At that point, all I have to do is intentionally start to lose the fight, pull out my gun and kill him. The problem with the above scenario is that the person that isn't armed is in a no win situation. Either he gets his butt kicked, or he gets killed. I've never understood what's so complicated about this.

  • May 27, 2012, 2:07 a.m. CST

    Michael Bay is planning Bad Boys III: Fuck You, Fuck Me

    by Russell

    after he directs Transformers 4 and 5. It will be full of horseshit and epic fuckery and the much-relied on stereotype of the obnoxious black guy that Will Smith is so well-known for. When a reviewer on here points that out in 2015 trolls like raperat will go on the warpath and email the NAACP with quotes and citations in a wispy attempt to get that reviewer fired. The NAACP will give no fucks about raperats email. Big Willy will collect his paycheck. The world will keep turning. And all obnoxious black guys will live to annoy food courts another day.

  • May 27, 2012, 4:49 a.m. CST

    Zimmerman

    by Timmid

    Not sure about the racist angle on this piece from Zimmermans perspective. I'd lay odds that he's probably a keen Batman or Person of Interest fan. He has self-appointed vigilante written all over him -- wtf was he doing out with a gun --is that even allowed in the US. He's overstepped the mark here and killed some poor sob who could just as easily have been white imo.

  • May 27, 2012, 8:09 a.m. CST

    Thulsaboom

    by Hipshot

    "Racism has a twist ending. It was you." That...is a great line. Seriously. Hat's off. Racism, is just tribalism given a nasty edge, and almost all humans are tribalistic. When one group has an edge in power, that natural tendency can produce ghastly effects. Even an asshole who says "minorities see everything through the lens of race" flirts with the truth: everyone in a "minority" or disadvantaged in some sense, and tend to be hypersensitive to that aspect of their lives. Note the Fox News zombies who claim that the drastic skewing is all right because Right-wing views are the "minority" on broadcast television, for instance. Break whites into sub-groups like fat, gay, Libertarian or whatever and they exhibit the exact same tendencies to over-react that anyone else does. Actually pretty funny to watch, if you have a sick enough sense of humor. anyway...well played, sir.

  • May 29, 2012, 10:07 a.m. CST

    I hate everyone.

    by TheMachinist

    White People, Black people, asians, hispanics... You're all terrible.

  • May 30, 2012, 10:12 p.m. CST

    @hipshot, Thanks man!

    by ThulsaBoom

    My sense of humor is just that sick, and I couldn't survive without it. Let me know if you're ever in the Bay Area and want to catch a flick, you sound like someone I'd like to watch "Django" with. So few can stomach and/or process race intellectually these days. I miss the Public Enemy years, I guess. I'm with you, hypersensitivity is for my penis, it holds us back in terms of racial understanding. If anything we need to hurt each others feelings more, and learn how to deal with it without overreacting, overreaching, overstating, getting loud, and generally acting like children. Thanks again man, I've been reading for years but just started posting, so I think you are the first person to engage my comments. Cheers!