Movie News

Idris Elba Is Returning For THOR 2!!

Published at: May 15, 2012, 11:36 a.m. CST

The Kidd here...

Did you expect anything less?

How could we return to Asgard without Heimdall?

Idris Elba confirmed that he'd be returning in some capacity for the follow-up to THOR in an interview with Collider. As for what his role will be thus yet, Elba has no idea what new director Alan Taylor has in store for him yet as THOR 2 is still in the scripting stages, and, from my talk with Tom Hiddleston a few weeks ago, the only thing that the cast has been shown is an outline. However, that doesn't stop Elba from speculating as to what he'd like to learn about Heimdall in this chapter. 

"I'd just like to get to know him a bit more. Who is Heimdall? He guards the gate. Okay. Is there anything else? I don't know what is in the script because I haven't read it yet. But, the audience has responded to Asgard and wants to know more about who lives there and what it's about. I'm sure, if they do that, Heimdall will be featured more."

THOR 2 is set to head into production sometime this summer, in order to hit its November 2013 release date. 

 

-Billy Donnelly

"The Infamous Billy The Kidd"

BillyTheKidd@aintitcool.com

Follow me on Twitter.

 

 

 

Readers Talkback

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  • May 15, 2012, 11:38 a.m. CST

    Asgard has to have back their one black guy!

    by Secretagentnumber6

    Love Heimdall. Really would like them to give him more time, and Idris Elba is awesome in the role.

  • In fact, are there any black folks in Sci-Fi that you guys actually like? Geez!

  • May 15, 2012, 11:40 a.m. CST

    Elba rocks

    by D.Vader

    I'll be glad to see more of somewhat creepy but very respectful Heimdall.

  • May 15, 2012, 11:43 a.m. CST

    atkinson

    by phifty2

    Who doesn't like Wil Smiff? I think people bust balls about his kid being in his projects but other than that he seems to be well like around these parts.

  • May 15, 2012, 11:43 a.m. CST

    @atkinson, Awww, that's a bunch of horseshit.

    by sumosmurf

    Lando Calrissian was a black guy.

  • May 15, 2012, 11:43 a.m. CST

    What the hell is "Will Smith" hate?

    by DoctorWho?

  • May 15, 2012, 11:45 a.m. CST

    Good on him..

    by LeonardsBellbottoms

  • May 15, 2012, 11:45 a.m. CST

    Good on him..

    by LeonardsBellbottoms

  • May 15, 2012, 11:45 a.m. CST

    oops..was to add I hardly think Prometheus and Thor 2 is overexposure..

    by LeonardsBellbottoms

  • May 15, 2012, 11:47 a.m. CST

    Atkinson...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...do you even read this site? Stringer's at nearly Bruce Campbell prime levels of being suggested by talkbackers for every available role in every available geek movie. And this, even though he still hasn't told us where Wallace is.

  • May 15, 2012, 11:48 a.m. CST

    When's Hot Toys gonna do the Destroyer?

    by LORDOFLIGHT

    I want that guy made of real metal pieces to go with my Thor.

  • May 15, 2012, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Had to click to see who Idris Elba was...

    by DoctorWho?

    Heimdall? Um, you're damn right you bring that guy back! He rocked. And don't fuck with continuity please.

  • May 15, 2012, 11:50 a.m. CST

    However...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I think he's wasted in this role in this series of movies. There's just not enough meat there, unless they take it to a whole different level than they did in the comics.

  • May 15, 2012, 11:50 a.m. CST

    Would love to see Idris Elba as the Black Panther

    by Joe Plumber

    Luther kick a$$!

  • May 15, 2012, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Idris returning?! Everybody knows Norse gods are white!

    by ray a

  • May 15, 2012, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Also...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...people on this site tend to be pretty damn fond of Gina Torres, Sam Jackson, Zoe Saldana, Tony Todd, Taye Diggs...shoot, plenty of people from what I've read. None of them love Rosario Dawson as much as I do though. And I don't love her nearly as much as I'd like to. Ken Foree, too, though in a decidedly different way.

  • May 15, 2012, 11:55 a.m. CST

    Actually Norse gods have a very unpredictable "gene pool"

    by lprothro

    Loki's children for instance, include a giant snake, a giant wolf, and a death goddess who is half-black/half-white ala that weird Star Trek TOS episode.

  • light years away existing at the precise same time is astronomically improbably and ludicrous.

  • May 15, 2012, 11:57 a.m. CST

    Oh and they look exactly like us, that's the improbable part.

    by atlatl

  • May 15, 2012, 11:58 a.m. CST

    And yes, I mean I would like to see...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...Rosario Dawson get a wider range of higher profile, more challenging roles... ...and I would like to make sweet, sweet love with Ken Foree. Hey and everybody seems to dig Lance Reddick, too. He probably sort of makes this list, with supporting roles in Fringe and Lost.

  • Britgeek needs to be flogged.

  • May 15, 2012, 12:04 p.m. CST

    tritainium is hilarious!

    by barryallen77

    at least im hoping he was joking

  • May 15, 2012, 12:04 p.m. CST

    Yes, more Asgard, less Earth/New Mexico in Thor 2. Please.

    by hank henshaw

    I imagine the Asgard scenes are much more expensive to make, but that's the way it is.

  • May 15, 2012, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Would love to see Heimdall join up with Thor for an adventure

    by kidicarus

    That's one bad mofo!

  • May 15, 2012, 12:11 p.m. CST

    How did the Neo Nazi boycott go?

    by Nerd Rage

    Thor was still a success? I guess they were the MINORITY. Get it?

  • May 15, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST

    IDRIS ELBA FOR EVERY BLACK SUPERHERO!!!

    by Nerd Rage

    What? I'm serious.

  • May 15, 2012, 12:14 p.m. CST

    didn't take long for the Prometheus article to get pulled down!

    by gringostar

    Link to the new TV spot died instantly anyways...

  • May 15, 2012, 12:15 p.m. CST

    I disagree with Elba though about Heimdall needing a backstory

    by Nerd Rage

    He works better as a mysterious badass.

  • May 15, 2012, 12:21 p.m. CST

    red ned lynch

    by Keith Small

    Where's Wallace? Good one!

  • Don't get me wrong - I have no problem whatsoever with a black Heimdall. Especially with a great actor like Idris Elba in the role. But when they piss about with the actual mythology, it tends to grate. Why not have a black Lady Sif? It's not as if Jaimie Alexander was all that...

  • May 15, 2012, 12:25 p.m. CST

    Great to see Idris back!

    by LORDOFLIGHT

  • May 15, 2012, 12:30 p.m. CST

    @red ned Don't forget Keith David.

    by adeceasedfan

    So many excellent genre actors of color, not just black that it makes the argument pointless. Imo. I thought Elba was bad ass in Thor.

  • May 15, 2012, 12:41 p.m. CST

    adeceasedfan...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...shit. Thank you for catching that. Child's a really stupid one to forget. I think I'm going to claim that I was trying so hard to forget everything about The Cape that I temporarily forgot him, too. And I couldn't agree with you more about your central point.

  • May 15, 2012, 12:55 p.m. CST

    How about The Return of Thor?

    by Felix the Taster

    Or even The Hammer of Thor! Thor 2 is a little too production line what with the Iron Man 3, Avengers 2 and Captain America 2's we got coming.

  • May 15, 2012, 12:56 p.m. CST

    In liked the two black guys in "Event Horizon"

    by cookylamoo

    Because they acted like two blacks guys.

  • May 15, 2012, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Max Payne!!!

    by Joe Plumber

  • I cast Eva Green with her Dark Shadows blond locks.

  • May 15, 2012, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Next thing you'll say is that NATALIE PORTMAN will return!

    by Jaster Mareel

    Does this mean that Chris Hemsworth will be coming back TOO? You could knock me over with a feather! Thank god AICN is on the cutting edge of this major development!

  • Spring 2011: "I can't believe their casting a BLACK guy in the role of Heimdall!!!! This is Norse Mythology! Liberal/Affirmative Action/Progressive Nonsense Again!!!" "How DARE they cast Idris Elba in that role!" "Ah Helll Naw!" Yeah, I remember how it was last year. That's exactly how the reactions were. You would think that Will Smith were cast. And yes... that's exactly how you folks behave about Will Smith. He's like Obama on Fox News, the dude can do nothing right. And as far as nepotism is concerned: Martin Sheen, Peter Fonda, Francis Ford-Coppola, Llyod Bridges, Kirk Douglas, Goldie Hawn, and Jon Voight would like to thank you for your relative silence.

  • May 15, 2012, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Actually Darth, Eva would also have been great as Hela too.

    by Stalkeye

    Ever seen her as Morgan le Fay in the short lived Camelot series?

  • I agree that some people were upset with the Benetton casting of Asgard's inhabitants. But, how do you know those people are here right now? And why are you lumping us all together as racists? As someone above mentioned, most people don't have an issue with Will Smith because of the color of his skin, but because of his blatant nepotism concerning his kids. I despise Jason Reitman and Tori Spelling for the exact same reason.

  • May 15, 2012, 1:39 p.m. CST

    stalkeye, yes

    by Joe Plumber

    All of her! She may be too old for The Enchantress by Hollywood standards so Hela could be a better fit.

  • May 15, 2012, 1:41 p.m. CST

    AWW HAAAAYYYYLLL NAWWW!!!!

    by poop

    HAYTAHS. Y'ALL ARE HAYTAHS.

  • LOL!

  • May 15, 2012, 1:49 p.m. CST

    @biggusdickus

    by Johnboy40

    as far as fucking with the mythology goes, and I may be wrong here, but I don't recall the warriors 3 being in the actual mythology. More like additions to give Marvel a certain amount of IP. Of course, if you mean the comic mythology, I withdraw my sarkiness :)

  • May 15, 2012, 1:53 p.m. CST

    buttnasty, let me AXE you a question

    by Joe Plumber

    Are you a racist?

  • :-)

  • May 15, 2012, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Add me to the chorus calling for Elba as Black Panther

    by kevred

    He's fine in Thor, but I think he'd absolutely kill it as T'Challa. His demeanor, physique, personality, delivery, he has it all. He'd give the character a great '3D' quality like the other Avengers actors have managed to do, and he could hold his own with all of them. I can totally see him doing his own verbal sparring with Downey a la Ruffalo in 'Avengers'. 'That is some very interesting technology, Anthony. Similar to something we developed 40 years ago. Consider this latest advancement...' And imagine a Cap-Panther training room (or real-world) all-out rumble? Oh, the possibilities. It's tempting to agree with @nerd rage about being able to see him in all black superhero roles. Sort of a Bruce Campbell phenomenon - when someone arrives with the right charisma that's endlessly entertaining, you want to connect that to other things. But he'd be great as Panther.

  • May 15, 2012, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Too bad he's already been cast as Heimdall....

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    ....he would have made a great Black Panther to introduce into Avengers 2. Maybe they can still pull off a Chris Evans-like Torch-to-Captain America switcheroo.

  • May 15, 2012, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Ok, so where is the scantily clad Idriss Elba pic?

    by zyuray2

    Hey, you do it for actresses...

  • May 15, 2012, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Well...

    by lead_sharp

    They could always explore the relationship between Heimdall and his sister Sif.

  • May 15, 2012, 2:51 p.m. CST

    please tell me KAT DENNINGS is returning.

    by the Green Gargantua

  • May 15, 2012, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Who is Heimdall? He guards the gate. Okay. Is there anything else?

    by Triple_J_72

    Nope.

  • Yes, I am a genius.

  • May 15, 2012, 2:54 p.m. CST

    More Asgard, less Earth.

    by thedarklinglord

    The instant Thor got to Earth the movie just ground to a halt, then it was a painfully slow, tedious slog to build back up momentum. Let's not do that again.

  • May 15, 2012, 2:57 p.m. CST

    OK we get it, Christina Hendricks has big tits.

    by Triple_J_72

  • May 15, 2012, 3:04 p.m. CST

    triple_j_72 is such a grumpy little turd.

    by the Green Gargantua

  • May 15, 2012, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Guardin' the gate for Odin Barksdale

    by tangcameo

  • May 15, 2012, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Emily Blunt for Wanda (Scarlet Witch) in Avengers 2

    by carlotta_valdes

    ...don't make the same mistake twice Marvel, even if she's contracted to Gulliver 2...you wait!!

  • May 15, 2012, 3:05 p.m. CST

    darth_meh

    by Beosker Posey III

    "most people don't have an issue with Will Smith because of the color of his skin, but because of his blatant nepotism concerning his kids. I despise Jason Reitman and Tori Spelling for the exact same reason. " How can anyone despise anyone because of nepotism. Especially those one that benefit from it. Like you wouldn't take the opportunity. It happens everywhere. Where I'm from there is a commercial on TV about law firm that was started by a man and now the firm is made up of him and his children. I'm sure they didn't all beat out every other lawyer for the job. There's also the cases mention before, The Sheen/Estevez, The Bridges(Never heard anyone say they hated Loyd or Bo), The Kennedy's etc. Even when blood isn't involved, things work mostly on a "Who ya know" basis. Think JJ Abrams hires news employees on every new project or does he bring people he knows. I'm not sure what you do for a living but are you telling me you never put in a good word for people. Yep, Smith likely used some of his influence to get his child gig in Hollywood. Not the only one to do so. And that happens with relatives and non relatives. Sometimes it works and sometimes bad results happen. To be honest, I think it's something that actors/actresses who are unfairly type cast should do. Another thing if you hate actors of nepotism,then you should hate Models and Athletes that get gigs over those that have trained for years. I Like some of Smith's movies, I don't like others. I don't care that he produced a movie and hired his son. His wasn't bad. The movie was OK, nowhere near as good as the original.

  • May 15, 2012, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Cool, though not surprised

    by Briestro

    as much as I read ridiculous talkbacks.. this line just killed me "please tell me KAT DENNINGS is returning." Please tell me you are fucking joking? The only thing in the entire film that held it back slightly, was this useless cringe worthy bullshit character. 2 other super hot brunettes were already in the film, we don't need the useless one with the eye rolling bullshit "jokes". B

  • May 15, 2012, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Darth Meh

    by poop

    No, I am not racist. I do, however FUCKING LOATHE the use of the word *HATERS*, which I see in every fucking talkback. I'm trying to make a stand against it, because all these pasty white nerds using it is goddamn ridiculous and embarrassing. They sound like sassy fat black women who are guests on Maury yelling at the audience. They may as well follow up every use of *HATER* with *Oh NO you DI-N'T! Y'all don't KNOW me! I do what Ah WANT!* It's so damn stupid. Stop saying that fucking word! It's not EVEN a REAL FUCKING WORD!

  • May 15, 2012, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Haters gonna hate

    by Nerd Rage

  • May 15, 2012, 3:14 p.m. CST

    JUDE LAW for BLACK PANTHER!!!!

    by the Green Gargantua

    KAT DENNINGS BOOBS FOR MY FACE!!!

  • May 15, 2012, 3:18 p.m. CST

    briestro I WAS 100% serious. You wanna know what fucked up THOR?

    by the Green Gargantua

    Not enough money you little turd. Anytime they can't afford the scale of a massive story they have all the Earthly action take place in a small desert town, and it is kind of cheese. ANd what other women were in Thor??? I did not notice any.

  • May 15, 2012, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Drop Idris and hire Mike Tyson!!!

    by Sigmar25

  • May 15, 2012, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Heimdall can't go have an adventure, he's gotta guard the gate.

    by Triple_J_72

  • May 15, 2012, 3:40 p.m. CST

    The term "Hater": "I'm trying to make a stand against it"

    by DoctorWho?

    Lofty ambitions there bud.

  • May 15, 2012, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Ok Green

    by Briestro

    "Not enough money you little turd. Anytime they can't afford the scale of a massive story they have all the Earthly action take place in a small desert town, and it is kind of cheese." I'm not even going to acknowledge the absolutely idiocy of this statement. I'm sorry you were born like this, and if I was like you, I'm sure I would rage as well! Get a grip. B

  • May 15, 2012, 3:52 p.m. CST

    I enjoyed Thor more than I thought I would

    by smudgewhat

    Hemsworth was really very good in it, and I think Hiddleston is excellent. I think a sequel could be great since they don't have to do all the origin/set-up stuff.

  • May 15, 2012, 3:59 p.m. CST

    Elba

    by Brian

    Love him in Thor. Very dignified and loyal. Powerful. But quiet. Well done. And forget him as Black Panther. We need Djiman Hansou for that role.

  • I believe that for the most part nepotism is a huge problem in our society. Our last president was nominated and elected due to nepotism and it nearly destroyed our country. The world would be better off without Smith's talentless offspring being shoved down our throats. There's many more talented kids who deserve the work but won't get it because their parents aren't famous and that is a shame and not something to be celebrated or tacitly accepted.

  • May 15, 2012, 4:08 p.m. CST

    How did Thor get back to Earth in The Avengers?

    by frank

    I thought a major plot point at the end of the Thor movie was that the bridge to Earth had been destroyed and he couldn’t get back there again. Then he just showed up randomly in Avengers. Can somebody tell me what the deal was there? It was one of the only things that bothered me about the movie.

  • May 15, 2012, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Great news

    by Sean

    You can't make a movie about Norse Gods without STRINGER BELL!!!!! (Not sarcasm, love the guy)

  • May 15, 2012, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Franks TV, re: Thor in Avengers

    by D.Vader

    Loki comments the AllFather must have needed great amounts of Dark Energy to get Thor to Midgard since the Bifrost bridge was destroyed.

  • Maybe they will explain in Thor 2

  • Glad he's not a snob like some other skilled actors. and he makes a great superhero. He deserves a spot on the Avengers roster as BP. I'd also take him as War Machine.

  • Also: He just thinks he's the coolest mother fucker ever. You're in an Isaac Asimov story? Hey, that's ok. Sell some fucking Converse. Make sure to work in the old, "Oh, hell no!" line. You agreed to be a part of "I am Legend", or as I know it, "I am in a giant Product Placement with a rewritten, dumbed-down ending and I don't care because I have no Integrity". Fuck 'im.

  • May 15, 2012, 4:36 p.m. CST

    Black Panther

    by Bloo

    as much as I'd like to see Idris Elba as Panther, I think Chiwetel Ejiofor would be better. Don't believe me, see RED BELT. This is what I want, a Black Panther movie, written and directed by David Mamet starring Ejiofor

  • Like how have I shown any excitement what soever? My "absolutely idiocy"? I hate to red pen you, but is english a secon language or are you using predictive type ona smart phone? How is "absolutely idiocy" demonstrated in my comments? lol, you just have a lot of inappropriate reactions what I wrote. There are tons of huge ideas that have been poorly realized because they had too small a budget for what was required. Aliens, a 'War in Heaven", etc.. So the way to cut costs they isolate the action to a small town, or even just a diner on a desert rode. How this is absolute idiocy begs the question again if you can comprehend what you read. Personally, my weirdo radar is going off, so I think you are just an oddball.

  • May 15, 2012, 4:37 p.m. CST

    hahahahahahahha

    by the Green Gargantua

  • May 15, 2012, 4:38 p.m. CST

    (btw the grammatical errors were intentional, in an attempt to speak moron)

    by the Green Gargantua

  • May 15, 2012, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Thor's return in Avengers

    by Briestro

    Well, they attributed it to one throwaway line, that Loki says to Thor the minute they both land. "With Bifrost gone, how much dark energy did the All-Father have to muster to conjure you here?" Pretty thin stuff, but that's all we received. B

  • May 15, 2012, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Green

    by Briestro

    The only moron, clearly, is the one you see in the mirror everyday. Have fun being the little shit that you are! B

  • May 15, 2012, 4:58 p.m. CST

    Just realized that this Elba guy was in The Office ...

    by Vince Ricardo

    ... I've seen Thor a few times and the Office many times and I never made the connection. That's some good (Thor) costume design there. Too bad Djimon Hounsou is pushin' 50. He would've made a good Black Panther. Heck, he still probably could.

  • May 15, 2012, 5:03 p.m. CST

    Que the Asatru crybabies in 3. 2. ...

    by Stoolsoftener

  • May 15, 2012, 5:11 p.m. CST

    I want to see THOR fight the guy from Adventures in Babysitting

    by SmokieGeezer

  • Elba played his part OK but I think the actors playing Fandral and Hogun were charismatic vacuum.

  • May 15, 2012, 5:47 p.m. CST

    So why no story on the record breaking box office of Avengers?

    by Queefer Sutherland

    I want another opportunity to thumb my nose at the haters and naysayers. I want to make them smell my thick, pungent farts of scorn. As for Thor2, I'll give it a try, but I think they're going to wear out the welcome of these heroes, and there will be less interest in the next Avengers film. Maybe not, I hope not. Either way, I don't see the success of The Avengers will necessarily help those other films. Mostly, I hope they do another Hulk film. It was great to see Hulk REALLY smash. The Norton film had some good smashing, but it just didn't have the "impact" of the Avengers' Hulk.

  • May 15, 2012, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Thanks for the explanations.

    by frank

    Sounds like there was some hand waving involved. Ah well, I can roll with it.

  • May 15, 2012, 8:12 p.m. CST

    didn't realize Elba was in THOR until the credits rolled

    by Tigger Tales

    a nice surprise!

  • May 15, 2012, 8:15 p.m. CST

    briestro, wow son, you sure got me there. What a burn.

    by the Green Gargantua

    I like that you sign your empty meaningless little posts like you are writing a letter or some such nonsense. I can't decide if your a tool or a douche though... Most likely a little of both, clearly too young to be on the internet by yourself. Does you mommy know that you are attempting to have adult conversations about Thor 2 or is she catatonic from all the pills?

  • May 15, 2012, 8:41 p.m. CST

    RE: Odin Barksdale

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    OK, that made me laugh. Well played.

  • May 15, 2012, 9:28 p.m. CST

    buckethead50

    by Queefer Sutherland

    Maybe I wasn't talking about you. Maybe you weren't a really big douche like so many others. The fact that you admit you're wrong might be an indication of that.

  • May 15, 2012, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Re: Black Panther Movie

    by Bishamon

    Chiwetel Ejiofor is your Black Panther. Shut this thread down now.

  • May 15, 2012, 10:11 p.m. CST

    i can accept Idris in Tro

    by ray a

  • ...How many blacks does it take before its considered a black film?

  • May 15, 2012, 11:41 p.m. CST

    Bloo and bishamon are right...

    by Immortal_Fish

    ...Chiwetel Ejiofor would be awesome as Panther. Elba was my first choice, but then he had to go and get cast as Heimdall. The Evans switch worked because we all know FF is going to get rebooted. And that's a shame, since the performance Evans gave was not only the best part about that series, but it was also the best comic character portrayal this side of Ledger's Joker. Jackman doesn't count. A six-foot 30-something chickmagnet cast to play a five-foot 50-something ugly runt.

  • May 16, 2012, 1:22 a.m. CST

    Please no more wooden acting from Portman, and

    by Dingbatty

    please much more Jamie Alexander, goddess on and off screen.

  • May 16, 2012, 8:07 a.m. CST

    Didn't care for Thor

    by Lou Stools

    1980's Flash Gordon meets any Hercules movie with better production values.

  • May 16, 2012, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Is Thor 2 going to take place before The Avengers?

    by heylookoverthere

    And explain how the hell Thor got back to earth with the bridge destroyed? It seems odd that they make such a big deal of his desire to get back to earth and reunite with Portman's character (and her working to find a way to bring him back), and then he doesn't even look her up during the course of the Avenger's movie.

  • May 16, 2012, 1:16 p.m. CST

    lol

    by Briestro

    "Most likely a little of both, clearly too young to be on the internet by yourself." I got my first pc in 1981. Seriously, kid, please. This all started because of my complete inability to believe that anyone could ever want the most useless character in the film to appear in the sequel. Hey, maybe you like stupid humor? Whatever floats your boat. Complete asinine comments like you didn't see any other women in the movie, only paints you as an ineffective troll. You wouldn't last 5 seconds in a verbal debate with me. End of line. -B