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The Kidd Vs. DARK SHADOWS
What happened to Tim Burton?
Where has the Tim Burton I grew up watching and respecting gone? It used to be when Tim Burton’s name was attached to a film you paid attention. You anticipated the dark visions he had waiting for you on-screen, wondering what perverse ideas he was willing to explore next. He built an entire career with films like PEE-WEE’S BIG ADVENTURE, BEETLEJUICE, BATMAN, EDWARD SCISSORHANDS, BATMAN RETURNS, ED WOOD, MARS ATTACKS!, SLEEPY HOLLOW and BIG FISH. Wow… that’s some run of movies to be recognized for… making it far more unfortunate that over the past decade, he’s tainted his own name and his own style with lesser films that stylistically have become paint-by-numbers templates of what a Tim Burton film should look like. They’ve also become creatively hollow, devoid of the wonderment of which Burton’s films used to be overflowing. For the last decade or so, Burton’s films have grown colder and more detached from the immersive worlds he used to create, and whether it’s laziness or complacency or a bit of both, this isn’t the Tim Burton I used to really love. PLANET OF THE APES, CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY, SWEENEY TODD, ALICE IN WONDERLAND… one might be a misstep, two a fluke, but more than three is a trend. Burton’s films have snowballed to the point that when his name is attached to a film these days, you’re left wondering just how soulless this one might be. And that brings us to DARK SHADOWS, which might wind up being the emptiest of them all.
For source material that Burton and his longtime collaborator Johnny Depp (this being their eighth film together) supposedly love, DARK SHADOWS feels like a property they desperately wanted to get their hands on, and then, once they did, had no idea what to do with it. It doesn’t stay true to its melodramatic roots nor does it elect to go campy in spoofing its soap opera nature. Quite simply, DARK SHADOWS never comes to the realization of what it wants to be, and, as a result of this identity crisis, we’re stuck with a film filled with half-realized yet mostly forgotten story arcs and a novelty that quickly wears off after about 20 minutes. Most damagingly though, DARK SHADOWS serves as a concrete reminder that the Tim Burton of old, the one who always seemed capable of bringing another unique story our way, is very likely gone, and I don’t know that he’s ever coming back.
DARK SHADOWS dips into the mythology created by the original ABC daytime series, where vampire Barnabas Collins (Johnny Depp) is accidentally released back into the world more than 200 years after he was imprisoned in a coffin. Going from 1760 to 1972 is quite the culture shock, yet all the mileage the film is able to get out of this fish out of water scenario comes in a quick montage with the resurrected Barnabas observing the bright lights of a neon McDonald’s sign, discovering blacktop and hearing the new music of the day. With that out of the way, there’s about 90 minutes of movie left to fill, and nothing left worth watching to fill it with. Depp seems to be having some fun in his portrayal of Barnabas, pulling tricks from his Captain Jack Sparrow bag to at least bring about a character worth remembering after you’ve left the theatre. But it’s almost as if Depp and the rest of the cast are acting in two entirely different movies, with neither side in on the jokes of the other. Barnabas continues to act as a proper Englishman of the 18th century, and yet the rest of the Barnabas clan (Michelle Pfeiffer, Chloe Moretz, Jonny Lee Miller and Gulliver McGrath), who are encountering their long lost relative for the first time seem largely unfazed by his bizarre speech and behaviors. To make matters worse, side stories involving Moretz, McGrath and the family’s new governess, played by Bella Heathcote, who may or may not have a link to Barnabas’ past, are quickly built up as if they’re going to go somewhere in the larger picture of DARK SHADOWS, only to get no attention paid to them for large bouts, before haphazardly being resolved during the film’s disaster of a finale, where supernatural shit of all kinds are thrown at the walls in the hopes something cool might stick.
The brunt of DARK SHADOWS revolves around Barnabas’ on-again, off-again love affair with Angelique Bouchard (Eva Green), who, when denied the vampire’s romance, goes on a scorched earth rampage against him, his family, his loves, his business and his legacy. Too bad watching a vampire and a witch do battle over the future of the fishing business in their harbor town seems rather trivial when there’s far more interesting things that could have been done with these creatures. As a result, their conflict seems rather lame, when we’re being told of others who can see ghosts and communicate with spirits. Rebuilding a cannery or jockeying over ports at that point doesn’t even register.
DARK SHADOWS does have its moments early, but the novelty of seeing Depp’s Barnabas stick out like a sore thumb (which only the audience seems to realize) quickly grows tiresome. That leaves a lot of screen time to be filled with something, and, for this film adaptation of DARK SHADOWS, it’s not comedy and it’s not drama. Whatever it is, it’s just not very good.
-Billy Donnelly
"The Infamous Billy The Kidd"
Follow me on Twitter.
Readers Talkback
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Now I'll read the review.
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Kidd, you're a good writer.
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May 11, 2012, 9:12 a.m. CST
Haven't seen the film but was real excited when I heard they were doing a Dark Towers movie.
by phifty2
Now we get this. I don't care if it's good or not, it's not Dark Shadows.
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Sleepy Hollow is Silver. The rest of Burton´s movies, well... meh
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I'm with you on the other movies.
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I could have told you that. Tim Burton needs to do a contemporary crime movie now. That is the only way he can redeem himself from the clutch of empty mainstream fetish film making.
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May 11, 2012, 9:13 a.m. CST
Forget the Avengers, it's Shit On Tim Burton Weekend!!
by Punisherthunder
Burton hasn't been relative for years people.
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..every problem you had with it I could see watching any trailer though...I have a nose for these things.
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DO NOT WORK TOGETHER FOR A LOOOONG TIME. Maybe that will help.
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May 11, 2012, 9:16 a.m. CST
Willy Wonka, Alice etc - It's the same movie over and over
by I_Snake_Plissken
Where's younger, quirky Tim Burton when you need him?
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May 11, 2012, 9:16 a.m. CST
Tim Burton himself said he didn't know what genre the film fit into
by Mugato5150
That's probably not a good sign. I think Depp at this point is just being a loyal friend To Burton, which is an admirable quality. He became friends with Hunter S. Thompson after doing Fear and Loathing, Depp was at his funeral and now he's attending the funeral of Burton's career. There's a certain nobility to that I suppose.
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Loved it! Dark as fuck, brilliant songs and just great work all round.
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is it because it isn't based on comic books or superheros? is it too adult for the virgin dorks who run this site?
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When I saw it it shock the hell out of me. I didn't know it was rated 'R'. Its just so dark and bloody. Loved every moment.
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because that film is BADASS...
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Looks awful.
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When he was forced to reign in his empty creepiness.
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The way the song were all written, it's hard to describe, like opera or something. I just didn't find them catchy or entertaining. By the end I was skipping the songs and just watching the movie, which was okay. Borat was really good in it.
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May 11, 2012, 9:35 a.m. CST
Like Sweeney Todd, as well, but the credit mostly goes to Stephen Sondheim not Burton
by Joe Plumber
Burton stuck pretty close to Sondheim's musical, which is to his credit, and that is why it worked. Burton can direct, he just doesn't have much to say anymore and his signature style has become a cliche at this point. The fact that Todd's story took place in Gothic English period was a match made in heaven with Burton who adds a Gothic sensibility to everything he does, even when it is not warranted.
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May 11, 2012, 9:40 a.m. CST
compare the stuff charmless Frankenweenie to ParaNorman..
by zom-bot.com
and you will see that the Burton style has escaped him, moved on to others, and evolved. Frankenweenie is literally now a metaphor for him and his career/style...keeping something alive that you shouldn't- when you should be moving on to better things.
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I think the movie stood as an homage to hard core Dark Shadows / All things Dan Curtis fans, from music, to photography, to sets, etc...as for tone, I would compare it to Sleepy Hollow. Overall no, not a film for everyone, but for the right crowd, worth seeing
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must have been quotes.
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May 11, 2012, 9:43 a.m. CST
"DARK SHADOWS feels like a property they desperately wanted to get their hands on, and then, once they did, had no idea what to do with it."
by jawsfan
Well put and dead on-target.
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May 11, 2012, 9:43 a.m. CST
Even my friend who LOVES empty-headed and vapid movies said to skip this one.
by jawsfan
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May 11, 2012, 9:53 a.m. CST
Hi I'm Tim Burton. When I made Batman I stated to the press that I had never read a comic book in my life. I killed the Joker and cast Mr. Mom as Batman.
by UltraTron
The fact that it took this long for everyone to realize I didn't have a fucking clue is the real irony.
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May 11, 2012, 9:55 a.m. CST
zombot nailed that. I was drifting out of consciousness during 3D frankenweeny trailer. Just felt like the best looking nasonex commercial ever
by UltraTron
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Much better than lachrymose garbage like Big Fish or the awful Apes and Alice flicks. It's not at Ed Wood, Batman Returns or Sweeney levels, but it's a much more interesting and genuinely odd Burton flick and all the better for it. Sure there are flaws - too many characters, sub-plots edited down etc - but the love of the show, the Corman Poe movies (and tons of other horror flicks) is obvious and it has a weird, pulpy quality all its own which is really quite beguiling. Actually, the movie it reminds me of the most in Burton's back catalogue is Mars Attacks! I'm betting that in a few years time - like that movie - this'll be talked up as one of Tim's more interesting later movies.
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After the promise of Sleepy Hollow, I thought Burton was the perfect director for a straight out Hammer-esque horror film. When I heard he was doing Dark Shadows, I was more than excited...because I thought Burton was finally going to do that Hammer film he was born to do. Instead...we get the same old tired Burton goth-comedy regurgitation. And on a property like Dark Shadows and a great vampire like Barnabas Collins...it's a crime. Such a lost opportunity. What was Burton and Depp thinking? Did they actually like Dark Shadows at all? Because it doesn't sound like it. It sounds like Burton phoned it in like he did with Planet of the Apes. Does Burton even like horror films? Does he even like Vincent Price horror that he professes to love? I don't think so...Because it's beginning to feel like the type of horror that appeals to him thoroughly is something like the 1960's "Bewitched"...but more goth-like. As a matter of fact, he ought to get on that right now. What a waste.
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Part of the fascination of the series was that Barnabas being a vampire wasn't obvious. Doesn't seem like that here.
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... as a director. Hell of a production designer, although he's far too married to a particular idiosyncratic style that has long-since gotten stale. The guy has no respect whatsoever for source materiel he didn't invent himself... and nothing but contempt for his audience. One screening of "Batman" (which is a perfectly awful movie, I dare anybody to watch it today and not realize that) would tell you as much.
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May 11, 2012, 10:17 a.m. CST
Problem is, this reviewer shits on almost everything he sees
by Dubster32
So I just don't pay any attention to a word he says now.
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The third act is crap (excluding the bit where he gets taken to the mausoleum and saved by David). The rest of it was great and full of elements from the original show. I also really admire his approach in NOT making it "Tim Burtony". By doing so, he shows true respect towards acknowledging that the source material is above and beyond everything he's ever done, primarily because it's been a constant inspiration throughout most of his films. Motifs that, only fans of the show have been able to spot.
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The only thing is he's now eating fine imported Bonham-Carter trim off of Victorian lingerie.
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I've seen almost every Burton film, and it seems that he excels as a artist on film more than a storyteller. Most of his movies are conceptually interesting and visually sumptuous with Gothic overtones, but in the end, most of his movies, while entertaining, lack real depth and leave me simply cold. In other words, it's brilliant, well conceived eye candy, coupled with some chuckles. The only exception is Ed Wood, which I consider the greatest film Burton has ever done; a comedy that has real heart and soul. I have no desire to see Dark Shadows, as it looks like cookie cutter Burton as usual. What he needs to do to get out of the rut he's in is forget about making movies based on old concepts (TV shows, movies, etc.) and work on something totally original.
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May 11, 2012, 10:40 a.m. CST
How could you POSSIBLY list Burton's great films without mentioning NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS???
by Crobran
This is akin to listing Spielburg's great films without mentioning Raiders or Schindler's List. To my mind, as great as many of those other films are, Nightmare is absolutely the best.
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He didn't direct Nightmare.
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...and now my ignorance is exposed for all to see. How the mighty have fallen! Of course, Burton's fingerprints are all over Nightmare (probably literally as well as figuratively), but I have always thought Burton directed it. Thanks for correcting me.
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How is Batman an awful film? You can argue that it's an awful adaptation of the comic book character (even though he has gone through so many permutations that I would argue Burton's is perfectly valid), but how is it an awful film in terms of the standards of film criticism? How are the cinematography, production design, screenplay, performances, music, etc. indicative of an 'awful' film. I think most comic book people confuse the two. Burton's Batman is a perfectly good movie. Is it an absolute masterpiece? No. But I would like to know where you get the idea that the picture fails as a film.
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you were close, Burton produced it and came up with the story, but that was all Selznik (sp?), who also did James and the Giant Peach and Coraline (with no involvement from Burton) RE: Todd. It's not a bad flick, it's pretty good, but when compared to the original stage show (which would be hard to film) and Burton does a good job adapting the material. However, from a musical theater pov, the music had to be adapted to Depp and HBC's voices instead of hiring actors who met the voice requirements, which I think is wrong. Again, not a bad movie, pretty good in fact, but pales compared to the stage show. I mentioned this in THE ZONE (cheap plug) but Burton and Depp and HBC REALLY need to take a break from each other (and I'm glad neither of them are involved in Frankenweenie). Depp has done every Burton movie since 2005 and Carter every movie since 2000(1?)...since Planet of the Apes
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May 11, 2012, 11:17 a.m. CST
Sweeney Todd was great. Apes-Alice-Willy Wonka are abominations.
by knowthyself
He needs to quite with the remakes that's for sure.
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I guess the biggest failing of Batman is the total lack of control Burton exerts over Nicholson who doesn't play the Joker, he plays Jack Nicholson and was kind of the beginning when Jack stopped being an actor and just started playing himself. There is also an over abundance of Kim Basinger brought on by Jon Peters fucking her at the time. I actually think it works as a film, but those are two major complaints that I can come up with off the top of my head.
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While the publicity machine would love you to believe the original series was "campy" or "kitsch" it wasn't. The show was a very dark, gothic horror. My Aunt who was one of the kids who ran home from school was horrified by the trailer. "Why did they make it a comedy?" she asked me. I didn't have an answer except that Hollywood is hell bent on turning anything from the 60's/70's or 80's into a comedy. Can't you take a step back and see that a serious DS movie could spawn a franchise? Who is this movie supposed to appeal to?
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This isn't Beetlejuice, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I thought it was very entertaining. I'm with you on Planet of the Apes, but the others are solid. Maybe you miss whole cloth original takes, but he has pretty consistently delivered quality product. Not sure how you can like Sleepy Hollow and not this. I found the pacing, look, and tone to be somewhat similar.
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May 11, 2012, 11:32 a.m. CST
Good to see a couple of people grow some balls, and call out a shitty movie for a change.
by Paul Paradis
Burton's nothing, but a joke. When his name is attached to a movie now I know to expect to see two things. Depp and a camp filled mess. The previews, posters, and the casting alone should have been a huge neon sign to stay away from this steaming pile of shit.
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May 11, 2012, 11:34 a.m. CST
Putting Mars Attacks and Big Fish alongside Burton's classics
by matthooper8
completely nullifies the review.
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He drove that shit into the ground
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Jack certainly plays Jack, but his persona fit that particular vision of the character pretty well, I felt. It may have been a 'lazy' performance, but unfortunately such has been the case with so many of the great actors who broke out in the 60's and 70's (DeNiro and Pacino have both long-since descended into self-parody). He didn't rein in Jack, to be sure, but behind the scenes Jack was also one of Burton's biggest cheerleaders, which he desperately needed as a young and fairly untested filmmaker. And it is a fun performance. Is it at times garish? Sure. But I can toss out a ton of memorable Jack-as-Joker lines in his memorable delivery. As for Basinger, I feel she did a good job, and, aside from Selina Kyle in Batman Returns, probably remains my personal favorite love interest for Batman onscreen (unless you count Andrea from Mask of the Phantasm). She may have been in it a fair amount, but she was never grating in my opinion, nor was she just shameless eye candy.
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But I'm glad we can have a civil discussion on this film. It has certainly polarized the Batman fanbase, especially since the Nolan films have come about. I can appreciate both styles and interpretations for their own strengths and weaknesses.
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I was rooting for the Martians to kill all the morons. That's what would happen if a government ran by Al Gore handled first contact with hostile aliens.
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Oh yeah, that's EVERY SINGLE MOVIE he's ever done with Burton. My bad. Burton/Depp are literally rehashing the same trick over and over hoping we won't notice. Hey, guys, it was cute 20 years ago, now it's tiresome. Get a new act.
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Just saying. Oh yeah Kidd loves to shit on movies so I'm not suprised he loathed this. I may still check it out but probably as a sneak in. If I enjoy it I won't mind defending it and recomending it to others.
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So easy to hate on Tim Burton these days. And he is most definitely been running on fumes. But since he made my all-time favorite movie, I will always give his movies a chance. Although I'll admit, I still haven't seen "Alice in Wonderland". Just haven't got the stomach for it (and I've got one hell of a stomach). Someone needs to take away Burton's big budgets (not to mention his access to Johnny Depp and HBC) and make him work for a living again. Maybe that would kick-start his creativity again. I'll wait for the BluRay, but I'm going to give "Dark Shadows" a try. Until then, I've got Dan Curtis' bloody-good-time 1970 flick "House of Dark Shadows" cued up to watch this weekend. Now THAT is a "Dark Shadows" movie. Plus, most of the old DS episodes are streaming on Netflix, not to mention Curtis' late-80's "re-imagining" of the series. So there's plenty of "Dark Shadows" out there for everyone.
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May 11, 2012, 12:24 p.m. CST
Frankenweenie is the most soul-less, shameless, uninspired
by Raptor Jesus
cash grab of all time. WTF can possibly be in that movie that makes it more than the original short? SHAMELESS CASH GRAB. TB has joked about taking a few years off. He should.
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...if you're ambivalent about taking "The Kidd"'s word for it. Hell, read any of the 59% of critics on Rotten Tomatoes who panned it. Having seen the movie, I wholeheartedly agree it's a mess and deserves to die a quick death at the box office. (As it is, I'm sure The Avengers will most likely trounce it this weekend.)
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May 11, 2012, 12:36 p.m. CST
Sweeney Todd is on par with hist best, totally agree with by c3po!!!
by sherlock_junior
Please don't name it in that run of badness!
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May 11, 2012, 12:59 p.m. CST
Why should Tim Burton change anything when his films make money. Alice was hugely successful. Dare I say it, Burton has become a hack
by Joe Plumber
trapped in his own idiosyncratic style that has become a tired cliche at this point. He needs an intervention.
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They reek of negativity and hostility - that's not to say I'm criticizing him for giving negative reviews, but he seems to go into every movie with a chip on his shoulder. He can barely even type out a plot synopsis without five or six snarky, bitchy comments. Heck, he can't even post a trailer for a movie without making a bunch of obscene and frankly douchey comments. Sure, most film people are overtly critical and have snarkier-than-thou attitudes, but leave that for the talkbackers, not those writing the reviews. At the end of the day, we love film and love reading/writing about it, not just talking shit. Stay at least a little classy, Kidd, you'd be surprised at what a long way that goes.
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You guys do know that it was a Broadway musical first, right? Like, from 1979. If anyone has ever seen a GOOD performance of the play, they would know what a BAD version the movie was. Beautifully shot, I will say that, but the songs were dreadfully done. I never had a love of DARK SHADOWS. In fact, I thought the show was ridiculous. It's GENERAL HOSPITAL with a vampire. And ghosts. And a werewolf at some point. So the movie really has no appeal to me.
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May 11, 2012, 1:26 p.m. CST
How is Sweeney Todd a "misstep"? Sorry if this has already been brought up.
by dahveed1972
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It's a slope, and an irregular one, but there is a definate decline. I think the big problem is most of these films are adaptations - he stopped doing original work like Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood, Big Fish and Nightmare (yes he produced it but his prints are all over that). He could have done this tale from scratch, forgone the connection to a 50 year old soap that no one knows any more, and maybe forged something more coherent and interesting.
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May 11, 2012, 1:46 p.m. CST
You might have something there mrd. Gotta give Sondheim and the cast most of the credit for Todd.
by dahveed1972
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Since he hooked up with her and dumped Lisa Marie, he's only made 1 great film: Big Fish. The rest have been anywhere from good to really bad. His Charlie and the Chocolate Factory got the art direction and set design right for Charlie's house, but the rest of the movie just doesn't work. Some artists find contentment in their personal lives, and thus their art loses its punch. Maybe next time for Tim Burton.------later-----m
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I agree with kidds taste in burton films. I actually love big fish too and I noticed a couple of you guys didn't think it was up to par with his other masterpieces. Probably gonna check this out on video just because I love his imagery even if the story is lacking. Btw i feel Edward scissor hands is his best flick
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...but when I saw it, the Burton approach was still fresh. I didn't yawn at it, the way I yawned at ALICE IN WONDERLAND. I saw the flaws in it but was still really entertained at times, and still considered it creative and not repetitious.
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I also liked mars attacks for its unpredictability. When watching it you felt as though anyone could die at any moment. I don't know if every lol moment was intentional but it was definitely Burton's funniest film IMO. Worst film- planet of the apes. It didn't even look like a burton film to me
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May 11, 2012, 2:30 p.m. CST
Sweeney Todd was great. I liked Charlie and the Chocolate Factory too.
by BilboRing
I love most of Tim Burton's movies. To each his own I guess. Planet of the Apes did suck balls though. Alice in Wonderland was meh.
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Go watch it again, and try to forget you're watching Batman. It's a complete mess: script, pacing, acting, plot. The last half hour in particular is laughably awful, sub b-movie quality (and I LIKE b-movies!).
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Was at the Miami Screening this week (Thanks again, Billy). I walked out of the movie saying -- Jeez, he's trying to get a Beetlejuice vibe but wound up with a mishmash of nothing. Depp was fine and enjoyable to watch, but everything else was Cliff's Notes or dead ends. The resolution of each family member's storyline either just abruptly ends or their "issue" comes out of nowhere without any foreshadowing (no pun intended). There were a half-dozen chuckle moments in a sea of meh. Thanks again for the screening. Other than 80% of the film, it was a blast.
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May 11, 2012, 3:16 p.m. CST
bilboring, it was Chocolate Factory that sucked balls.
by Tikidonkeypunch
I thought Apes was alright but only seen it like once or twice. Don't remembering it being the nightmare that Alice was.
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May 11, 2012, 3:19 p.m. CST
All 3 of Burton 80's films (Beetlejuice, Batman, Pee Wee) make my top 20 films
by Nerd Rage
His later films wouldn't make my top 200. What happened to that guy? He needs to find his mojo, again.
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-Namaste-
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Oh, but I came back for more abuse by watching about 30 minutes of Sweeney Todd, which, yes, I do also consider a POS, having once seen a stage production with a stellar cast of people WHO COULD ACTUALLY SING!!! Yes, the songs are great, Sondheim is a great composer, but listening to Depp and Carter croak their way through the score during amateur hour was more than I could bear. Also, I could live quite happily if I never again see another ADD-addled movie where the "camera," for no apparent reason, "flies" out the window and whips around the computer generated alleys and drainpipes of old London, Paris, Xmas City, whateverthefuck GAHH!!! Burton=lame-brained hackery. Although, I do still love Ed Wood, and have a fondness for Mars Attacks! (which is also kind of a mess, but as a parody of invasion movies and American culture, it is spot on), as well as some admiration for Beetlejuice and Scissorhands. But that- is that.
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May 11, 2012, 5:33 p.m. CST
Oh, yeah, and Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, of course, was great at the time...
by animatronicmojo
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I agree. You need not look any further than how he titles his reviews. It's always "The Kidd vs. ..." VERSUS. Like he is up against something. He seems to approach everything from this angry and douchey place in his heart. He seems very confrontational. I personally cannot stand his reviews. In fact, I can't really stand any of the reviews on this site. Harry is an awful writer and seems to surround himself with people worse than he is, perhaps in an attempt to make himself look better. They never really have any breaking news on this site, it's always old shit that was reported by Joblo, DarkHorizons, LatinoReview, or BleedingCool first. Example... did you know they're making a sequel to The Avengers? Oh wow, totally... glad I read that on five other sites before I visited AintItCool. AintItOutDatedandBland should be the title. I stand by previous statements I've made that Harry is indeed an inspiration to us all. If you ever feel down, like you're not good enough to make it, just think about how well Harry has done for himself. Can the man write? Certainly not decently, yet here he is making money and celebrity connections. Only in America.
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When Tim Burton comes up with his own characters/story it is amazing. When he adapts other peoples source material it is at best not up to par and at least a total mess.
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May 12, 2012, 4:58 a.m. CST
I've just posted this on Ravens review but it applies here - probably moreso...
by tomdolan04
Whilst I agree the movie doesn't look very good one thing that get's raised with again and again with movies like this is the pumped up self-importance of movie journalists. Critics and reviewers tend to love to rip into a movie because being snarky is easier than being genuine and non-so more than for this film. You can 'feel' it on this site and others at the moment - WE GET TO RIP INTO BURTON AND DEPP LOLZ. We get to think up and type sarcastic putdowns that show what good journalists we are'. It's almost like some misinterpret their title as 'critic' to mean that they have to criticizing because it makes them look clever. I have no particular affinity to either and the movie looks shitty so sure call a spade a spade- but it's the way a significant (however certainly not all) proportion of journalists in movie and other fields delight in failure more so than hearlding success.
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It probably applies to most Talkbackers, but since Journalists get the better billing they should lead by example.
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Bar the Avengers, when good / positively reviewed films are released - maybe we'll get one review of it on AICN. <p> When a film that warrants negative coverage gets released - seemingly we get five or six reviews covering the same critiques
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That’s a profoundly stupid statement that essentially shatters your already tenuous credibility. I also have no idea why some people shit on Charlie and Chocolate Factory considering it is a much truer interpretation of the original novel. Dark Shadows is a weak IP to begin with and the fact that it’s a misfire doesn’t shock me in the least. That understood, I’m willing to bet it’s at relatively entertaining given the stellar cast.
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Burton never understood Batman from the outset but Batman Returns was just awful. Every beat in that film was off and it didn’t help that the climax was predicated on an army of penguins armed with missiles.
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May 12, 2012, 7:52 a.m. CST
notable that most of his recent stuff is remake or readaptation
by Thunderbolt Ross
that said, as much as I like tim burton, The Kidd's list demonstrates he's a bit overrated. I mean - Mars Attacks?
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Granted the final 20 minutes of Mars Attacks descends beyond stupidity. But the movie is a lot of fun overall. I think it helps if you were already familiar with the ATTACK cards as a kid (Mars, and the lesser known but intensely awesome DINOSAURS ATTACK!)
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I couldn't believe the lame fuckery onscreen in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. To me it seemed like the ultimate homerun for him... but Depp had to play Wonka as a creepy pedo and the factory design itself was boring and all the factory sets looked like plastic garbage.
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May 12, 2012, 8:37 a.m. CST
POTA is his worst by far. It's an abominably boring and tone-deaf movie.
by Autodidact
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory feels like the same problem.. Burton didn't really know what to do with the material once he had control of it. The story in Charlie is really pretty close to the book. The story is not the problem. The problem with Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, aside from Depp's creepy performance, is in the wonky direction and shooting (and secondarily, in the design choices).
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Sleepy Hollow is wicked, surpassed my expectations, transported you to that world. Great vision and imagination. Charlie and the chocolate factory blew. Alice in wonderland blew. Sweeny Todd and Planet Apes never made it past average. I am no longer looking forward to this movie but will check it out one day probably.
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Sorry, but I didn't dislike Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or Alice in Wonderland. Burton doesn't make movies as sharp or otherworldly as he once did, but his movies usually hold up and are fun to watch (repeatedly) where others are just forgettable. Sorry if you don't agree, but then it just sucks to be you.
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May 12, 2012, 12:24 p.m. CST
Alice in Wonderland confirmed my theory that Tim Burton had a stroke 10 years ago
by Ricardo
And he struggles with making a coherent good movie. Sweeney Todd is good, but the original material is good - he merely shot the musical scene by scene.
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The problem WAS the story. I really like the direction Depp went with-- very original and unexpected. COMPLETELY disappears in the role. If it were a better movie, no one would be complaining. Besides the story, the other thing that killed the character was that they made him a dead-white in the film. Notice in the posters, he has a rosy pink glow, like he's a child himself. (We may fantasize that this is the actual result of eating nothing but candy for most of his life, lol.) This change in skin color, from the posters to the movie, really represents everything about the kind of movie people were expecting, and the kind of movie we got. (It looks like the whole thing was lit with sparse fluorescent lighting. Why so cold and dark?) Aside from having the soulless DOA feel of a Burton film, like being an ironic joke instead of building something sincere that will be lasting and cherished, he stuck wayyyy too much to the book. I suppose he did it because he liked the book, but 95% of modern day America would not like the book if they had to sit down and read it, and we all know the story anyways so it's a chore to simply revisit it. There's a lot more to be explored in the mere concept of a fantasy chocolate factory and a man who never really outgrew childhood. There's a somewhat sinister moral lesson in the book and the first film, but with the direction they were taking Depp's character, I think he should have been far more innocent than sinister. As it is, his character doesn't really make sense. Does he not want kids to enjoy his candy and factory? I think they should have gone more for Depp's Wonka being almost as much of a victim as the kids in the folly of fantasy overindulgence-- yes, kind of a play on the Michael Jackson type. Now that would not only be interesting, but the subtle pretext would make it hilarious at times (MJ was a pedophile, but Depp would play it straight, as if he really was that innocent-- "That's a big bed! Can I get in?"). They should have just taken the concept and started from scratch, because I think people wanted to like Depp and his chocolate factory, rather than see him be all snippy with people. The only parts I actually liked about the film were the original additions to the story that Burton made. In conclusion, Tim Burton's a massive idiot. I don't think he could possibly make a film that connects with a general audience even if he tried (Big Fish). He'd be a good creative consultant but that's it. (P.S. Will Ferrel in Elf >> done right. Combine that with Depp and a classic franchise = box office gold.)
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... Pee Wees Big Adventure, Batman, and Ed Wood. The rest are a mixed bag, and his most recent work he can't seem to get his head out of his ass. I still respect his catalogue though, he has more hits than misses. This is not M. Knight after all.
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... Sweeny Todd was excellent. But I agree with you on the other movies, which I believe were all rushed.
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I LOVED Batman 89 when it was released. It was the first movie I ever waited in line for opening day. I had the limited edition trading cards, posters, t-shirts, comic book adaptations... the works. Actually, I still have 90% of that stuff to this day. I've been a Batman fanatic since I was 3 years old. And, I repeat, I absolutely adored the Tim Burton film. But... fast forward to nearly 25 years later... Ugh. Just horrible. NOTHING happens in that movie. NOTHING. There is no plot at all. It's all style over substance (just like the newer Burton flicks). All of this is glossed over, though, because of the mass hysteria surrounding that film. And, regardless of my current opinion of it, we *do* need to give credit where credit's due: Batman 89 made it so studios started taking comic book properties seriously. So, we owe Burton for that and let's not forget it. That being said, however, the script for Batman 89 sucks. Hard. There is no plot. None. It's rather pathetic, really. So, yeah, I agree. Burton's Batman does not hold up well over time. At all.
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