Cool News
GAME OF THRONES
Gets Season Three!!
No surprise, but still good news:
For Immediate Release
HBO RENEWS GAME OF THRONES FOR THIRD SEASON
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First Episode Of The Second Season Has Already Grossed 8.3 Million Viewers
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LOS ANGELES, April 10, 2012 – HBO has renewed GAME OF THRONES for a third season, it was announced today by Michael Lombardo, president, HBO Programming.
“Series creators David Benioff and D.B. Weiss raised our expectations for the second season – and then surpassed them,” said Lombardo. “We are thrilled by all the viewer and media support we’ve received for the series, and can’t wait to see what Dan and David have in store for next season.”
Based on the bestselling fantasy book series by George R.R. Martin, GAME OF THRONES is an epic drama set in the world of Westeros, where ambitious men and women of both honor and ill-repute live in a land whose summers and winters can last years. The Emmy®- and Golden Globe-winning fantasy series began its ten-episode second season Sunday, April 1 (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET/PT), with other episodes debuting subsequent Sundays at the same time.
Among the early critical praise for the second season, Newsday called GAME OF THRONES “the best show on television,” while the Los Angeles Times termed the series “a cinematic feast” and “masterful.” The Wall Street Journal hailed the show as “magnificent” and USA Today called it “near perfection.”
According to early data, GAME OF THRONES’ season two premiere has already accumulated a gross audience of 8.3 million viewers, and is on track to easily surpass the season one average of 9.3 million viewers.
Season two cast members include: Emmy® and Golden Globe winner Peter Dinklage, Michelle Fairley, Lena Headey, Emilia Clarke, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Aidan Gillen, Iain Glen, Kit Harington, Richard Madden, Maisie Williams, Isaac Hempstead Wright, Sophie Turner, Jack Gleeson and Alfie Allen.
Season two credits: The executive producers of GAME OF THRONES are David Benioff, D.B. Weiss, Carolyn Strauss, Frank Doelger; co-executive producers, George R.R. Martin, Vanessa Taylor, Alan Taylor, Guymon Casady, Vince Gerardis; produced by Bernadette Caulfield.
Readers Talkback
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Now we know for sure we'll get to see a certain scene brought to life....
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Now if GRRM can just deliver an ending up-to-par with the first three books, I'll be ecstatic.
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But really, was there any doubt? It is easily the most critically acclaimed, eagerly anticipated show on television today.
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I know that many loved the third book. It was a little long in my view. Wondering how they are going to get all that material into 10 episodes?
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They're already talking about splitting A Storm of Swords in to two seasons.
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A Storm of Swords is the definition of Epic.
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Will he reveal the plots of unpublished books?
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Well, the Red Wedding was smack dab in the middle of A Storm of Swords. That'd make a hell of a season finale. Congrats on the third season! Woot and Hooray! And let's get to Brienne already!
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Can’t wait for more Khal Drogo!
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but that will just draw out the series even longer, and the child actors were already going to be ridiculously old by the time the show ended. Not sure how they are going to handle that. Maybe just film as much as possible all at once.
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followed by Clash of Kings. I think there is a lot of potential for the last two books to surpass any of the others though, and I really hope GRRM delivers on that promise.
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You’re talking about the infamous scene where Tyrion stays up late going over the kingdom’s expenses, I assume.
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April 10, 2012, 4:15 p.m. CST
There's a lot I can't wait to see, but I also can't wait to HEAR 'Rains of Castamere'
by bah
I'm anticipating that as much as any casting or scene. I wonder if the title song is actually it, thundering drums and such. The lyrics we have don't seem to fit, but I'm no composer.
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Of course!!! The audiences are going to shit gold when they see how late he stays up!
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Finally made my mom a convert (though she still hates the amount of sex & gore in it). And just finished book 5.... hope GRRM doesn't take too long to put out again.
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is waiting 2 years for the thrump of a certain crossbow.
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April 10, 2012, 4:44 p.m. CST
Shit gets real in Book 3 - every chapter a WTF cliffhanger
by WerePlatypus
I predict that season 3 and 4 of this show will give Sopranos a run for their money, ratings wise.
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fuck if you if you disagree
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Maybe it was something I missed, but I always pictured it as a quiet, mournful kind of tune. Y'know, one guy with a lute kind of thing. In any case, there's no way that doesn't end season 3. And no way that it doesn't leave people that haven't read the books shocked. I can't wait.
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They have to do at least, AT LEAST 12 episodes...if they do 2 complete seasons though they can start bringing in some of the stuff from book 4 I guess
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April 10, 2012, 4:57 p.m. CST
They've slowly been mixing in a few scenes from later books
by TheGreatHomsar
For example, the convo between Jaime and Catelyn we saw in Season One took place in Storm of Swords, if I remember correctly. I wouldn't be shocked to see them continue to move things around chronologically (if it makes for a more coherent story and for better pacing, them I'll all for it).
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I love this show, and I didn't doubt it, but just happy that they're definitely bringing it back!
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I just want to hear 'The Bear and the Maiden Fair'! I cried with laughter when I read the chapter where Olenna has her fool sing 'The Bear and the Maiden Fair' really loudly to drown out her little chat with Sansa. That was some seriously glorious writing. Here's hoping it translates to the screen...
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April 10, 2012, 5:02 p.m. CST
Agreed that Storm is one of the best, maybe the best overall
by Rebel Scumb
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April 10, 2012, 5:05 p.m. CST
If not for the epilogue of book 3, I actually would have been fine with the conclusion of book3 being the conclusion of the whole series *book spoilers within*
by Rebel Scumb
Sure it didn't fully resolve anything, but the older I get the less I find I like resolutions to stories. Book 3 at least ends with a big moment for each of the main characters, and they each reach a crossroads in their respective journeys where they must decide whether to fall into old habits or grow as a person and try something new to me that is more deeply satisfying then any big action finale or most other types of conclusions I'm hoping the overall series has a similar style of ending that book3 had, minus of course that epilogue and the big WTF!!?? moment it ends on
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April 10, 2012, 5:11 p.m. CST
He would have to deliver Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring in 5 years
by performingmonkey
Hopefully he's writing both of them right now!!! Otherwise how in the hell are they gonna handle the series?? Maybe do a prequel season of some kind while waiting for A Dream of Spring???
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April 10, 2012, 5:17 p.m. CST
(Mild spoiler) Each season won't follow each book from here out
by viks
The showrunners have said that they are going to start jumping around between books and that seasons 2-4 (although currently season 2 is about on path) are going to go back and forth through events in those three books. This is due to the fact that many fan-favorites aren't even included in book 4, such as Jon and Arya (who don't reappear until book 5)
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... Martin has given the makers of the show some information as to where the story is heading in the as-yet-unwritten books. And no, they're not sharing this information.
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Martin has given the makers of the show some information on where the story is heading in the as-yet-unwritten books. And no, they're not sharing this information. In other news, don't ever start your posts with an ellipsis, folks, or the talkback will eat it. WTF?
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Never mind.
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Amazingly well done show. 10 episodes per season just isn't enough, but I'll take it. Actually given how well done and expensive the show is, I am really happy to hear about the third season. Expense has cost the lives a few good shows on HBO.
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April 10, 2012, 5:24 p.m. CST
They will definitely have to mix books 4 and 5 together in the show
by frank
They are really one book anyway, covering different characters’ storylines over the same time period.
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I wouldn’t mind that, if GRRM determined the plot development. Also it would be kind of exciting to watch the show without already knowing what was going to happen.
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and Arya ( or her alter ego at least ) is in it. Not recalling if I have heard from Sansa (or her alter ego yet though). Also I could see book 3 in two seasons, but I think a 12 episode season could cover it nicely too.
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I vote Butterbumps.
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April 10, 2012, 5:28 p.m. CST
SPOILER... They are not going to follow the books as closely anymore
by Nick
Craster dies this season, when he died in book 3.
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April 10, 2012, 5:31 p.m. CST
Tired of Martin's schedule. Taking 7 years to release a book is insane...
by Nick
IF the guy wrote just 5 pages a day... the book would be 1800 pages long is just a year. Give another year to go back and edit it... and another year for publishing, and such... that would be acceptable... 3 years... but not 7!!! That is insane..
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still got nightmares about it :/ And Baelish is the Devil!!!
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April 10, 2012, 5:37 p.m. CST
Martin is a fat mofo, hopefully he doesnt pull a Robert Jordan on us...
by some dude
... I know we've talked about this before but Martin is a real butter ball and with the way he writes I could see this happening. Then again we'd probably have his wife or kids helping finish the book with another fantasy author. That could be absolutely terrible though, remember what happened to Dune ><
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he wrote books 2 and 3 in just two years each. Books 4 took so long because he had massive problems with Daenary's plot... which is why that got shoved over to book 5.... and then those problems persisted, and it took another couple years to get through it still. It shows in the final product, you can tell he has trouble with that arc. Originally he'd intended to just timeskip past books 4 and 5, but that created problems of its own. Hopefully now that he's through that 10 year knot, and back to the part he has fully figured out, and with the tv show on his heels, he'll be back to 2 years a book. For something THAT long and THAT complex with so many characters and plots to juggle however, you can't really argue the time it takes creatively.
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April 10, 2012, 5:55 p.m. CST
Hawaiian Stallion, I'm sure Martin has detailed notes on what's happening in the final books
by Elaine
To help someone like Brandon Sanderson finish the series if something bad should happen. I'm still amazed at how much I'm enjoying the Sanderson-written 'Wheel of Time' books. I thought that series was dead when Robert Jordan passed away, but nope. Sanderson is doing a superb job of bringing it to a close.
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April 10, 2012, 5:56 p.m. CST
Well I've seen better more creative authors pump out ten times as many books...
by some dude
... seriously China Mieville is pumping out a book a year, sometimes more and that man is actively involved in English politics, hell I think he's a member of English parliament and he makes Martin and most other fantasy writers look rather tired at times with some of the worlds, characters, and ideas he comes up with. I still havent seen anything nearly as creative or horrifying as torque energy, and no its not the kind of torque gear heads talk about. Im not even sure I can do it justice... then again characters in his books cant even explain and most times call it "unknowable".
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April 10, 2012, 6 p.m. CST
I'm in the midst of writing my first novel, and so I do sort of see why it takes it so long...
by Rebel Scumb
but I also have to maintain a regular 9-5 mon-fri office job while I go. If all I had to do was write I think I could be getting through this a lot faster. But who knows, everyones process is different. I've also been planning/brainstorming/outlining for almost 10 years, so very little of it I'm actually 'making up' as I'm writing, it's just the minutae and dialogue.
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...but like most fantasy writers he doesnt really write about fantasy, he kind of writes the same story that has been called fantasy for the last hundred years. Tolkein was both the best thing to happen to fantasy writing and the worst. Very few seem willing or able to get away from the ideas, themes, etc. that he set up with the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. Seriously Martin is still writing about dragons and "elves", lords and ladies, etc.
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April 10, 2012, 6:01 p.m. CST
Hopefully with Martin it's sort of like JK Rowling with the 5th HP book
by Rebel Scumb
that one was heavily delayed (though not by Martin standards) and reading book 5 you can tell it got away from her, the whole book stinks of writer's block then she got book 6 out super fast, and that was one of the best of the series, concise, well paced and feels like she enjoyed writing it when you read it.
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... I love the world and a lot of the characters but after a while I just had to say enough. There were entire books were nothing seemed to be happening. Oh events did occur and things went down but all in all most everyone just ended up where they left off, but in a different part of the world. Also when the dude starts bringing characters back to life I started to role my eyes. I mean he was still introducing major villians that no one had seen yet but were still important for some reason in like the ninth book.
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April 10, 2012, 6:05 p.m. CST
Hey remember when people thought this would be a one and done?
by SantiagoAndDunbar
Ratings just keep on going up and up
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I've personally always felt that the fantasy elements are for the most part the least interesting thing about aSoI&F as well, the family feuds and royal politics are the main thing I like, I don't really care that much about the Others/Whitewalkers or the dragons. Always been pretty indifferent about Melisandre as well, other than that she is a hot red head. I was actually sort of bummed out when the dragons showed up at the end of season 1/book 1 because I was worried it was just going to devolve into typical sword and socercy stuff. thankfully it hasn't, but I would say the magical stuff is still the part i'm least interested in and always the most at risk of taking me out of the story.
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April 10, 2012, 6:08 p.m. CST
*sppilers* You might be in for some disapointment then RS...
by some dude
...since it looks like things are leading to a massive showdown with the White Walkers and the rest of the world. Not only that but Martin has been adding more and more magical elements as the series goes on from the Children of the Forest to being able to see the past through weirwoods, etc. I actually enjoyed the way he talked about dragons, they werent just dragons, they were the atomic bombs of the Game of Thrones world. You could kill them but it was more likely they'd burn your entire army to a crisp and then melt your castle to slag.
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I will still be utterly shocked if HBO sees this through to the end though. They have an even worse track record than FOX for cancelling beloved shows, and at least with FOX those shows always do have admittedly dismal ratings. Add in the risk of Martin being delayed on the last 2 books, or the actors just not wanting to stick around for 7-10 seasons. I hope they stick with it, and the quality remains consistently high. that would be wonderful, But I will be VERY shocked if 2-4 years from now we're in a talkback for the show covering events from Dance with dragons.
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I agree that the most obvious climax to all of this is Dragons vs Whitewalkers, and that's probably what we'll get, and I'm sure it will be handled well I'm just hoping that it's something a bit more complex and less obvious than that. I don't want any sort of 'blow up the deathstar'/'drop the ring in the lava' type ending where doing one specific thing fixes everything. I don't get the impression westeros has ever really been that great a place to live. Things are extra shitty at the moment, but I never really get the impression that what is happening in the books is 'the most important thing to ever happen in history' in this world, it just seems like one particular era of big events, amidst a vast history (and future) of strife, hardship and conflict. Either way I'm in for the long hall. I just hope that all the Lannister conspiracies and various houses vying for the iron throne doesn't end up becoming the irrelevant, and only the Nightswatch & Dany's dragons stuff end up being the only real stuff that matters. I really liked LOST, but one of my complaints with the resolution (which I actually liked more than most people) was that the Others ended up being pretty much irrelevant to the endgame, where as to me all the stuff with them in seasons 2-5 was (for me) the most interesting aspect of the story. Anyways, It's just my personal preference, I agree that that is probably the way the story is headed, and Martin has dragged his characters through enough shit, that he has earned a big triumphant ending more than most It just feels sort of out of character with the series as a whole to me I'm much more interested in seeing what happens with Littlefinger & sansa, or cersei and the church, or Arya's story then I am with just a big dragon battle. But that's me. and I don't expect anyone else to feel the same way.
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April 10, 2012, 6:17 p.m. CST
My friend had an interesting theory the other day, re: Jon Snow's mother's identity
by Rebel Scumb
was that Jon Snow's mother was infact Ned Stark's sister Lyana. And that his father was not Ned, but infact Rhaegar Targaryen. And that's why Ned never told anyone who the mother was, because he promised his sister to keep Jon's parentage a secret.
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Or will HBO pussify due to budget yet again.
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Jon Snow reclaims his birthright... him and Danny join forces, and are wed... and at their ceremony.. Ned Stark walks out laughing with Robert... "GOTCHA!!!!"... Just like Tom and Huck, they faked their deaths.... then they realize all the shit they caused..... ends with Ned going "my bad"
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April 10, 2012, 6:22 p.m. CST
rebel scum... that is a wildly popular theory that is most likely correct.
by Nick
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April 10, 2012, 6:22 p.m. CST
Or Ned wakes up and it was all a dream and says "hmm on 2nd thought, I won't accept Robert's offer to be the hand of the king!"
by Rebel Scumb
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April 10, 2012, 6:23 p.m. CST
Or the characters find a Narnia-esque portal into our world, and end up running around modern day NYC
by Rebel Scumb
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Oh yeah? I'll have to tell her that. To be honest it never occured to me that there was anything interesting behind Jon's motherage
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April 10, 2012, 6:26 p.m. CST
Ned: "Maybe I won't be the hand... but Cate, this old chaps needs a hand... time to whip out the sword"
by Nick
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April 10, 2012, 6:28 p.m. CST
Hawaiian Stallion, give the Sanderson-written books a try if you haven't...
by Elaine
You may be pleasantly surprised. I know I was (and still am). For what it's worth, I concur with all of your issues with the later Jordan-written 'Wheel-of-Time' books. It's obvious that Jordan lost the plot after Book 6 or thereabouts. Books 7 to 10 were painfully bad, focusing as they did on pointless subplots, boring characters, etc. However, Book 11 (the last instalment Jordan finished before he passed away) was a bit of a return to form, and the Sanderson-written instalments are a rollicking read. Sanderson did what Jordan should have done years ago -- he killed off unnecessary subplots (sometimes in a matter of a single paragraph) and focused on what really mattered. And guess what? It worked. It worked so well that I'm looking forward to the final 'Wheel-of-Time' book as much as I'm looking forward to the final ASoIaF instalments, and that's saying something. Because not only has my faith in the characters been restored (Perrin, Nynaeve and Egwene rock in the most recent books, and even Elayne is becoming somewhat bearable again), but I'm invested in the story again, and I can't wait to see how it ends. I never thought I'd feel this way after the slog that was Books 7 to 10 of the series, but there it is. So, seriously, do read the three most recent books if you haven't already. Chances are you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Didn’t that one kid (was it Baric Dundarion’s squire) already tell Arya who Jon’s mother was? Is there any reason to believe that was incorrect? Also, Jon is said to most resemble Ned out of any of the Stark children.
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that's what I remembered also, but when I was at the GRRM Q&A a couple of weeks ago, he made a point to tease the mystery of Jon's parentage so I guess maybe it still is a mystery
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Dany takes the iron throne (Tyrion as her hand), with Jon Stark as King in the North. At least that is what I would like to see. It will be probably be something horrific like Ramsay Bolton becomes ruler of the seven kingdoms.
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in regards to Jon Snow's mother. Edric Dayne tells Arya, that she WAS NOT Jon Snow's mother, but his wet nurse.... due to his mother's inability to breast feed. Llayna being sick, at the time of his birth... could be a reason she couldn't breast feed...
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is Llyanna... she is a STARK... also Prior to her death she MADE Ned make a promise to her Her dying words at "Promise me, Ned" I think Ned, found her dying... and that she had married Rhaeger... she gave birth to Jon Snow... and she made Ned promise her to keep him, and his identity safe. If Robert found out, that she gave birth to a Targaryian, let alone Rhaegers son... Robert would have had him killed. First, Jon would have rights to the thrones Two, Robert would see the child as a slap in face... consdering his love for Llyanna and hatred towards the Targaryians... Ned took the child, and sacrificed his own honor to keep the promise he made his dying sister.
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I thought Edric said that his mother and Jon’s mother had both had Wylla as a wet nurse, making them milk brothers. I also thought he had told Arya who Jon’s mother was, but it was someone that I had never heard of and so the name didn’t have much significance for me. You seem to have a clearer memory of that exchange than I do though, so you are probably right.
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because of her love for Ned Stark? Was Edric making that up or had someone lied to him?
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It just seems like something GRRM would do, and fits all the evidence I would like it even better if this is never completely revealed in the series, or at the very least if Jon never finds out. One of the things I like about GRRM is he often gives you all the puzzle pieces to figure things out, but never actually puts them together for you. Like Varys conspiring with Illyrio in the dungeon in book 1. The identities are not really confirmed unless you watch the show and see it's Illyrio Or the fact that Varys is the jailer of the red keep that nobody can seem to locate.
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Where he is HOLDING A BABY... he tells her... "His story will be a song of ice and fire" Fire - Targaryians - father of fire Ice - Starks - Winterfeld - mother of ice But then again, Rhaegers KNOWN son, has turned out to be alive... but I still think her refers to Jon Snow...
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I'm definitely an adherent to the Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon theory (and I actually managed to piece that puzzle together myself, without reading it online like I did with Renly and Loras). As has already been mentioned, there are clues sprinkled throughout. BUt here are others: 1) Ned and Catelyn's children all resemble Catelyn. One of the reason's she's hated Jon so much is the resemblance to Ned. Remember "the seed is strong?" It is indeed - with Lyanna. Jon looks like a Stark because he's Ned's nephew, not his son. 2) Ned killed at least one member of the Kingsguard to rescue Lyanna. Why on earth would the Kingsguard be with Lyanna? Simple - because Rhaegar wanted his son and potential heir protected, because he knew his true born children could conceivably die. Arthur Dayne died protecting Lyanna, and he was apparently the baddest ass of all badass knights. Even Jaime remembers him with nothing but the greatest respect and admiration.
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Edric is relaying the story that the Dornish people believe. In other words, another cover up. Much like Ned relays in the North. Arthur Dayne's sister and Ned were supposed to have been close/possible lovers to the public and she allegedly killed herself when he returned to the North. When in reality, she likely was part of the conspiracy and will likely resurface and may have already in book 5...
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is GRRM knows that many fans have a theory, a strong theory on who his parents are... and they MAY have been the plan since day 1... but now, he may fuck with the fans, and change Jon Snow's path.... Hell, he could be DEAD, based on the events of Book 5...
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he may had ended book 5, the way he did... to get people guessing again... if Snow is alive (pretty sure he is) and Llyanna and Rhaeger are his parents... I think Book 6 will reveal it... has to... I mean, you can't save that for a last book reveal...
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April 10, 2012, 7:46 p.m. CST
why has NO ONE brought up the Gregor recasting... the guy who plays him now... DOES NOT LOOK THE PART... he looks BAD
by Nick
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April 10, 2012, 7:50 p.m. CST
Storm should be 2 Seasons, but Feast & Dance can be done in one season!
by Jawsh Murdock
Storm is so good they could easily take their time withit and the show would not lag at all. However, there are so many meandering plot lines and so much unnecessary fluff that you could trim those two books and not miss anything significant. Plus, since those two stories run concurrently -you pretty much have to combine them.
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Sounds like a pretty solid theory, then. I will have to re-read those parts. If that is the case, it seems like it would have been kind of Ned to confide in Catelyn. It’s not like she would have ratted him out or anything.
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April 10, 2012, 7:56 p.m. CST
frank_tv LOL! Ramsay as King of the 7 & Reek (what's left of him) as the 'hand'
by Jawsh Murdock
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Yep. -Namaste-
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Has he even shown up yet this season? Is it because the previous Mountain is busy filming The Hobbit?
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April 10, 2012, 8:02 p.m. CST
I agree Storm could be 2 seasons. I think you could cover 4 & 5 in 1 season each, but...
by Rebel Scumb
re chronologize them instead of the way the books are as casual fans will not stand for a whole season with half the cast missing for the same reason they have to have a story for Jaime in season 2, even though he's isn't in the book of Clash of Kings.
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http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1v8svjWMj1r9h4heo1_400.jpg
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I'm surprised they haven't greenlit season's 4 and 5 yet.
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April 10, 2012, 8:10 p.m. CST
Jaime is in Clash of Kings... the exchange Catelyn has with Jaimie at the end of Season 1, actually happens at the end of Clash of Kings
by Nick
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Just spitballing here, but were we ever given the exact details of how Arthur Dayne died or just 'he died at the Tower of Joy fighting Ned Stark'. Could the Sword of the Morning still be alive? Also, didn't Howland Reed go right to the Neck afterwards and hasn't left since. Could it be Arthur Dayne? It just seems like there is a glaring omission somewhere along the line, as Ned was 'close' with his sister and he died fighting against Ned and his guys. Then nothing. Surely if AD was so badass there would be more to it then 'he died'. Any thoughts?
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yes you're right, but I mean since that scene has already been used up, anything with Jaime in season 2 will have to be invented, unless they accelerate his story, and get into the stuff with him and Brienne earlier.
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Ned thinks to himself: "They had been seven against three, but only two lived to ride away." Him and Reed being the two.
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I think Jaime will be released as a prisoner at seasons end... just call it a "feeling I have"....
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You mentioned that she may have already resurfaced, whom do you suspect she is?
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So, if someone says someone else is dead in ASOIAF, then they are going to stay dead. Surely Catelyn Stark, Rickon Stark, Bran Stark, and Aegon Targeryn would have something to say about that :) Not trying to start a fight or anything, just saying that just because someone is dead doesnt necessarily mean they stay dead.
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That would certainly line up with the books chronology I'm also wondering if they will move some of Jon Snow's and Dany's chapters from book 3 into season 2. They both only got a hand full of chapters each in book 2, you can already see how they are stretching out their respective stories to make sure they can be in every episode this season.
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April 10, 2012, 8:25 p.m. CST
not everyone can come back... Specially Arthur... Reed killed him right before Arthur killed Ned
by Nick
the man is of little importance in the scheme of things.
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It's one of the most interesting aspects of the books It's also why I find the Brienne chapters so tedious, as she's always operating based on information that is about 2 books behind what the reader knows.
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1. It's pretty much a given at this point that Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off together. 2. Ned found Lyanna dying in the Tower of Joy in a "bloody bed." The "bloody bed" has been referenced in the series as being synonymous with childbirth, and it's also mentioned that "a woman's battle is in childbirth," or something to that effect. 2. Lyanna begged Ned to keep his promise to her. What promise could possibly have been so huge, that Ned would feel guilty/conflicted about it more than a decade later? 3. Dany sees a blue rose growing out of a wall of ice in a vision in the House of the Undying. That's about as blatant as it gets. 4. Arya looks like Lyanna. Jon looks like Arya. Ergo, Jon looks like Lyanna. 5. While he verbally calls Jon his son (speaking to other people), Ned, in his own mind, doesn't refer to Jon as his son. It's "the boy" or "my blood." When Catelyn asks Ned about Jon, he tells her that Jon is of his "blood." He's telling her as much as he can without telling her the truth. 6. Jon has dreams where he has to confront something, a truth or personal revelation, in the Winterfell crypt. Who's buried in the crypt? Lyanna. 7. Ned refuses to talk about Jon's mother. If his mother was really Wylla (or even Ashara), why would it be such a big secret? Why not just tell Jon? Because neither of them are actually his mother.
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April 10, 2012, 8:28 p.m. CST
exactly Rebel... the books, are written from POVs, remember? You will not get every detail
by Nick
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Cersei's fighter... that is a headless Gregor, right?
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That is my assumption, and I would say certainly the most reasonable theory . I'm hard pressed to think of who else it would be.
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Yeah that is Gregor Clegane brought back to life or something by Quyburn, who has traveled long and far and was kicked out of the Masterhood because of his wicked deeds and practicing black magic. Not to mention having his giant head removed for the Martells gives a good reason as to why he never talks, eats or takes off his helmet. Also Bran has a dream where he sees a giant armored monster and looks into his face and sees nothing or something along those lines. Also I dont think Jon will be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. I mean its heavily hinted at but Martin loves leading us along with things and then totally turning them on their ears. For example everyone thought Rob Stark was going to kick all kinds of ass, and he did for a time, but then his entire army was basically destroyed, his allies imprisoned, and his mother and friends murdered.
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I'm thinking the septa that is traveling with Jon Connington and Aegon, I think she may have helped smuggled baby Aegon out of Westeros. I also enjoy your creative idea for Dayne, never heard it before, but I really don't buy it. Both Dayne and Reed had well documented lives up to that point and I think people would have recognized Dayne if he did actually return to the North. Also why would Dayne forsake his duty to return to the marshes of the Neck? Maybe if Reed were acting as a bodyguard to Jon in Winterfell I would give that theory more credence.
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I think the Rhaegar and Lyanna parentage is a pretty widely accepted outcome by the hardcore fans. When people started figuring that out they asked Martin if he would change his story if people guessed it, and he categorically denied that he would do that. His story is set. Not only is there Dany's dream about Rhaegar holding the baby, but there is also the big prophecy about the return of Azor Ahai. That fits in perfectly with the way the most recent book ended. There's the big, "Promise me, Ned," thing. Plus several other big clues. If you go back through it, he has set a somewhat definite path. The only thing I could see as a hiccup is that "if" there were a child of Rhaegar's that was born earlier than Jon he would have the claim. And he would pretty much have had to be born before Jon, because for Jon to be legitimate in that world Rhaegar would have had to secretly marry Lyanna before his birth. These books lead to the most drawn out super-nerd conversations I have ever been a part of.
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While I agree that GRRM is good with the misleads, I thought it was pretty obvious from the beginning that Robb Stark was not going to live very long in the series. But that might just have been me
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Ah yes the Septa.. that could work.
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April 10, 2012, 8:37 p.m. CST
Does anyone know why in books 4 & 5 GRRM started having chapters with names other than the character names?
by Rebel Scumb
I assumed he was going to utilize it for some giant mislead, but there's never any payoff to the alternate names, nor any real rhyhm or reason as to why some are descriptions and the others are names Personally I always liked the name chapter system, and it felt unique to aSoI&F
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All the evidence is there. If he was to mislead us, he would have Jon Snow believing already, that he is the son, and rightful heir... Jon Snow really knows nothing along the lines of Llyana and Rhaeger being his parents. Kind of goes to my point above. What could have Llyana had Ned promise? Why didn't Ned tell Jon who his mom was? If he told it was Llyana, then he of course would have to tell him he wasn't his dad... leading Snow to know he is a Targarian, and the throne should be his. Also, the fact from Ned's POV, he never ONCE thought Jon and son in the same sentence. In dialouge, yes... but not in his mind.
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...for example the one Kingsguard who is with the Martells and falls for one of the daughters is known as the Queensmaker because of the original leader of the Kingsguard who made Aegon the conqueror's son the next king after him. Or something along those lines which is similar to what the Martells wanted him to do with Joffrey's sister Myrcella.
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that point about Ned never thinking of her as 'son' is to me the strongest evidence. I'd never noticed that before.
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I think Llyana and Rhaeger WERE married. Polygamy is common in the land. Also, another hint is that all of neds and catelyns kids look like Catelyn... whereas, Jon looks like a Stark.
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I realize that, I know the names are not without signifigance, or inappropriate to whom they refer, it just feels odd after 3 books with only having the characters names, to have some chapters now follow a different system, and others the same as before Its not so much bad, just odd. And unessesary in my opinion. Mostly though, I'm just curious if GRRM has ever said why he made the switch
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... lets be honest, Dany is a bit of an idiot. yes she is young and learning but every choice she makes in book 5 leads me to consider Martin might have her circling the toilet later on. Im sure she'll make it to Westeros with her dragons but I dont think its going to be them saving us from the White Walkers. Not only that but I dont think Jon Snow will either. He's one of the more honorable and intelligent characters in the book but he's almost held back by all of that at times, much like Ned. Im saying its Little Finger. He always always comes out on top whether it is turning the tide in the Battle of Blackwater or fooling everyone on the Eyrie. I seriously think even though he is a bit of scumbag and somewhat crazy that he is the smartest character in the books. When he realizes dead guys are marching across the freezing lands he'll come up with a plan, even one that uses Dany and her dragons or Jon Snow or others to save the seven kingdoms. Now it doesnt mean he'll survive or that people will even know it was him who pulled it all together but the readers sure will!
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He was, you know... PROTECTING the HEIR TO THE THRONE... I mean, that's pretty fucking huge.
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I definitely agree that they had to be married. My concern was more about when and the order of births. Jon and Aegon would be pretty close in age.
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Yeah I'm hoping there is a big payoff to Littlefinger
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I'm the kind
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I think Jon is going to be a pretty different character in the 6th and 7th book. Steam coming out of your wounds tends to change a person.
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That's not what I posted... Aegon, I think is older... but I don't think both he and Jon will live to the end..
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I was kind of thinking along those lines as well. Aegon's luck might be running pretty thin.
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Smoke or steam coming out of his wounds.. when he is in the cold?
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... there are already a couple of characters if I remember correctly with magically steaming or smoking wounds, Victarion Greyjoy for example is now crazy over the red god, has a arm that looks like charred meat and is constantly smoking. Hell if you want my bet, Jon Snow becomes a white walker! Yeah I said it! Hell Martin even hints at ideas like these with the story of the Black King or whatever who was supposedly a stark and leader of the nights watch who married a white walker woman and was sacrificing people to them.
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April 10, 2012, 8:50 p.m. CST
if they both do see the end of the series, I'd love to see this
by Nick
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I hope the Aegon stuff works out okay, I was a bit annoyed that something seemingly so important comes out of left field in book 5. would have been better if 'little griff' had been established earlier on. I'm presuming Jon is inside of Ghost now.
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Jon "Time to take my throne" Aegon "Your throne, that's my fucking throne, I'M OLDER!" Vary's "Oh, here we go again"
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Yes, I know the cold thing. But I'm thinking the cold is the GRRM misdirect so you don't really think about what it means when you first read it.
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I took it as his "insides" were super hot... as in... he is fireproof... and that when exposed to cold, they started steaming...
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What is the steaming you're talking about? I had read book 5 in a rush because I had the GRRM q&a event the next day I just presume if you're in a cold place then open wounds would steam due to the heat
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Yeah, Varys gets frustrated. Dany steps in to try to separate her cousins. Then they all just fall into some kind of incestuous threesome during the course of the fight. You can't say Martin wouldn't love that.
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I don't recall any mention of wounds steaming before... specially in the battles north of the wall. There was a significance put on that, IMO
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April 10, 2012, 8:55 p.m. CST
Vary's says "Times like these... I'm glad I don't have my balls"
by Nick
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I'll have to read that part again.
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April 10, 2012, 8:56 p.m. CST
Also steam coming from your body in extreme cold... is normal...
by some dude
... you know like when your breath looks like smoke during a very cold day. Maybe I didnt pick up on this being a bit more extreme in the book but this might be a time when you guys are reading a bit too much into something. Again, if you want a guy with stuff "steaming" out of his body all the time then Victarion is your man, the guy has a hamburger arm now and it smokes all the time. Hell if I had a guess I'd say he might be Azor Azhai
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The steaming wounds goes along with the Azor Ahai returning prophecy. Something about being reborn from fire I think? Nat, I agree that is what it meant. Just saying Martin didn't make it super clear because, well, because that's the way he makes as much of the story as possible.
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April 10, 2012, 8:59 p.m. CST
I like that so many people could potentially be Azor Azhai...
by Rebel Scumb
or all of them are, or none of them are there's still nothing saying that prophecy or the beliefs of the lord of light are even true which is one of the other things I like in martin's writing, he presents many religons, mysticisms and prophecies. But it's all just the character's beliefs and the books never really confirm if any of them are accurate though admittedly it seems there is at least something behind the red faiths power as there have been so noticeable results.
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April 10, 2012, 8:59 p.m. CST
haiwian... how can you ignore all that I posted above... from the red bed... to Ned's inner thoughts... etc...
by Nick
For a BIG reveal like Jon Snow... we have to be somewhat expecting it for it to be meaningful. Let's say, GRRM wrote it without the hints above? Wouldn't the Jon's paretns turning out to be Llyana and Reagar seem, kind of cheap... like GRRM pulled it out of his ass. Plus, I'd hate to see a "saw style" montage tying stuff together... he left that all there for us to figure out
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Yeah he definitely leaves as many doors open, or at least cracked, as possible. Good talkback. But it's time for Justified...
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April 10, 2012, 9:01 p.m. CST
holy shit... I just realized.. we had a civilized talkback on AICN... Herc, you better copy and save this talkback
by Nick
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April 10, 2012, 9:02 p.m. CST
I do wish epic stories in general could get away from the whole 'chosen one'/messiah motif
by Rebel Scumb
It just feels overplayed to me. With my own writing I'm trying to focus on people who make choices, rather than being chosen. Still GRRM is executing it well.
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... is because of the dragons. Their return to the world as living breathing creatures has brought magic back. There are constant mentions of people having new powers or their powers growing greater and greater. I believe there is an example of a man climbing a burning rope suspended in mid air by nothing in a bazaar who was never able to do that before the dragons, that sort of thing. They make all magic more "real" and powerful, and I think the red god worshippers are just taking advantadge of that.
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April 10, 2012, 9:04 p.m. CST
Nat I can ignore it because its totally possible all they are is red herrings...
by some dude
... Martin has been known to state he likes playing with the beliefs of his fans. Im not saying it isnt a likely possibility but that Martin seems to like messing with peoples heads, building up characters, places or people only to not mention them ever again or to strike them down mighitly.
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April 10, 2012, 9:04 p.m. CST
GRRM read the first chapter of book 6 for us at the q&a thing
by Rebel Scumb
It's a pretty awesome Victorian POV chapter
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It's not like Jon has some super powers, like Superman or Luke Skywalker... He's a guy, IMO, DESERVING what should be his (if he is the heir)... The guy, as been given the bum's rush of everything in life. Hell, he grew up with a motherfigure who HATED him, for no fault of his own. He does a noble thing, joins the wall with his uncle... and shit just goes down hill. He's always been my favorite (show and books)... so to me, it would be a fist pumping moment to see him take what is his..
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Remember Aegon was already smashed against a wall, then Ned road south almost all the way to Dorne and found Lyanna dying of childbirth, so clearly she had only recently given birth. But the birth order doesn't matter because young Griff almost certainly isn't the real Aegon, but a blackfyre. (hence the support of the golden company, the warning to dany about the 'murmor's dragon', etc...)
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April 10, 2012, 9:07 p.m. CST
Rebel Scum, once again check out a guy named China Mieville...
by some dude
... he's one of the closest things we have to an heir to Lovecraft's weird fiction throne. Seriously he calls his genre of work weird fiction and has started inspiring other authors with his works, there is starting to be a new weird fiction boom. And he basically hates anything related to Tolkein. He acknowledges that he made fantasy what it is today but also states that the genre is fairly stagnant as far as ideas, creatures, and worlds. There are no elves, dwarves, orcs or one man messiahs in his books... though their is a one man army named Uther Doul but how he does what he does is explained in a fairly brilliant manner.
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I meant more in terms of the Azor Ahai thing, with the prophecy of a the great one who will come again, etc etc bring balance to the force, etc type stuff. Just the notion of destiny/prophecy, character's fated to be the big hero type stuff.
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April 10, 2012, 9:09 p.m. CST
Nat, when does anyone deserving of anything in GoT actually get it?
by some dude
Seriously, no one really ever gets what they want. Little Finger never gets Cate, Ned doesnt get to keep his head, Joffrey doesnt get to keep his crown, etc. etc. etc. Once again, while many things point to Jon Snow being Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, it may come to nothing because he may be dead. Though Im still calling it that he eventually becomes a white walker or joins them or something along those lines. I believe someone in another talk back mentioned Dany and her dragons facing off with Jon and the white walkers.
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But maybe he has done that, to make us question everything, and expect the worse... you know, a double negative... I'm sure there are many (me included, sometimes) that are expecting a swerve, or a twist... or a sudden EXIT when it comes to this.. but this "prophecy" is such a strong portion of the book... it has to get filled... I can't see it going to anyone else, who hasn't been with us since the beginning.
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Aren't you the cunt who went out of his way to spoil the red wedding for non-book readers in the premier thread?
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April 10, 2012, 9:13 p.m. CST
Well its possible he is leading us along with all these let downs and betrayals etc...
by some dude
...but I just cant see GRRM going that route just because its sooo expected! Again he goes for the unexpected, like Dany being a huge let down as a leader when he's building it up like she's going to be Jesus Ghandi Buddha Ghenghis Khan... in reality she's rather terrible at it all and just a little girl with huge dreams. Honestly if Dany were to be killed I wouldnt really care, she's gone from a great character to one of my least liked. Tyrion too actually, I was wishing to skip their chapters after a while by the end of book 5. I do still like Jon Snow and wished he would get an army of giants or something lol
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SO FAR The ending of this series, will not be bleak... just can't see even GRRM doing that. Seeing, and experiencing all the bad stuff that has fallen on all the "better" (no one is GOOD) people... will make a ending, like Snow being shown as the rightful Heir, or even being made kind... all that sweater... But yes, there is always the chance the White Walker kill everyone, and Danny is eaten by her dragons.... nothing would surprise me... but, I have to have hope that something "good" will befall a character deserving of it.
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I will definitely check out his stuff. My story is a future/space scifi setting, but I would say it's more future fantasy, then pure science fiction, just in that it is not overly reliant on technobabble type stuff. It's like GRRM's stuff in the sense that it deals with a wide array of characters, and there is not very much clear cut good vs evil, but more just a tapestry of characters who are all varying shades of grey.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0
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April 10, 2012, 9:17 p.m. CST
Im still saying Little Finger will come out in the end, with Bran helping.
by some dude
They are two characters who seem to be most aware of what is really going on the world. Little Finger because he's had to be a clever mother fucker to get anywhere, let alone to the heights he's reached. Bran because well he will be one of the first of his kind in who knows how long and with the proper training and enough time he might be able to see things no one else knows or has known for some time. I can even see him taking control of ravens, etc. and helping the rest of Westeros out. Not to mention GRRM seems like the under dogs in the long run. Tyrion and Dany being other examples though they've faltered as of late.
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April 10, 2012, 9:19 p.m. CST
Fuck warging into ravens, bran will end up warging into a dragon.
by heylookoverthere
Or maybe Jon. you know one of them will.
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April 10, 2012, 9:20 p.m. CST
You'd probably love China Mieville then RS, he is by no means generic...
by some dude
... especially check out the Bas Lag trilogy, starting with perdido street station. They truly encompass the world fantastical. They have everything from steampunk to magic to cyborgs to magic to horrible and incredible monsters, exotic species to cactus men and a species of women with beetles for heads. That is only a tiny tiny vague taste of what Perdido Street Station has to offer.
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right up my alley! Well I'm going to turn in for the night.
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is pretty strong evidence that the power of R’hllor is mostly superficial. Sure, there is real magic there, but I think it will ultimately be defeated by more substantial forces (probably best represented by the Old Gods) in the end. I like how all of the gods that people worship in the story seem to be real to some extent. Except possibly for the Seven, who seem to about as effective as the gods that people worship on Earth.
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... or are you talking about Lovecraftian monstrosities... because that would be kind of awesome actually.
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2 seasons based on 1 book so why not film them together?...what happens if one of the child actors goes through a growth spurt (Walt from LOST)?...it will mess up the continuity
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April 10, 2012, 10:37 p.m. CST
natalieportmansyummyafterbirth, you said "if Martin just wrote 5 pages a day..."
by Tim
I see what you're saying about how the books take that long, but it's not easy to crank out over 2,000 words every day. Even if you're getting paid a shitload of money and you have your ideas tracked out. Some days will go better than others. I can write 3,000 words one day and have to scratch and claw just to get 500 the next. Like rebelscrumb said though, I also have a school and a job. If I was writing full-time my opinion on the issue might be different. Wonder how much King writes every day...
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April 10, 2012, 10:42 p.m. CST
@hawaiian stallion: Dany's just going through a nice arc
by Adelai Niska
She has to fail before she can rise up stronger and harder. Sort of like a Greyjoy.
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They better stop at 3 seasons unless they want to rewrite and get away from the books. After season 1 I was so impressed I went and bought all of the books and read them, and after book 3, the series goes straight to HELL. Martin clearly lost focus and lost how his plot lines with so many characters. It's like he was trying to fill a book quota when he should have ended the story a long time ago. I'm telling you folks after Book 3, the story goes way off the path of interesting and into the abyss. sad actually, I hope Martin can save it with a final book.
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as stated above is that not a *TON* happens that moves the plot forward visually for the TV show. Lots of new characters or perspectives that could be handled in 1-2 episodes tops. Our best hope would be the season 3 finale being 'The Red Wedding' then season 4 incorporating the rest of book 3, all of book 4, and maybe for Dany a smidge of book 5. Then season 5 deal with all of book 5 and maybe a touch of some things glossed over here or there. That puts us up against Martin's writing schedule... which is awful but we all know Thrones won't make it to season 7 because casual fans will lose interests and the costs won't be worth it to HBO. We need to take what we can get and pray we get through A Dance with Dragons.
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Though throwing Yog Sothoth into the mix would certainly shake things up a bit. Wouldn’t count on a happy ending in that case.
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Not a bad formula, if you ask me.
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Her story has been kind of meandering lately, but once she sails west I think she is going to be back on her game. She might end up dying, but not until near the end of the final book I would guess, and she will at least make quite an end for herself if that happens. I don’t think she is an idiot at all. Particularly in book 5 she has made some missteps, but overall she has proven to be a very competent leader and strategist. With more time and a clearer direction, she should only get better. I also imagine that she is going to have Tyrion helping her soon, which is a major advantage.
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... "Autumn Storms". What major event happened during a storm and produced a river flood?... Oh shit. GRRM is going to be writing the episode that may very well contain the RW. This will be the 7th episode in season 3, presumably giving the audience enough time to recuperate from the tragedy. They only gave Ned's death one episode before the finale. Plenty of good stuff to look forward to next season, and we are only two episodes into season 2! GRRM gives a little more information about his involvement here: http://grrm.livejournal.com/276653.html
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and I'm hooked. After years of not watching television...between this and Spartacus I may have to actually start up a cable subscription...
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Between his horn, his attitude, and his smoking blood-hand, some serious shit is going to happen in Dany's story when those two get together. I think.
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April 11, 2012, 12:27 a.m. CST
But I Have A Question About How Someone "Directs" These Episodes
by Crow3711
If you've followed the behind the scenes features, etc you know they shoot over months and months, across like 5 different countries and different landscapes, etc. So many of the characters are in the same show, yet never interact with one another in real life, many have probably never even met. So how do you call one person the "director" of an episode of game of thrones? I don't believe that these different people are flying to all these locations within reasonable amounts of time and actually directing each scene. One scene per episode, with all those actors. They have someone in charge of the wall shoot, the kings landing shoots, the dany shoots, etc. They're all so separate. Does anyone have any idea how a director handles this? Wouldn't it be more of an editing situation?
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Even if they include some Storm of Swords stuff into this season (as they did with Clash of Kings in season 1), there is still TONS of ground to cover. That's a huge book, and pretty much all of it is important in some way or another.
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is that epic?
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3.45(inaccurate),7.64, 11.26, 13.43, 12.14, 9.47, 7.66
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April 11, 2012, 12:58 a.m. CST
"Autumn Storms" in S3 probably won't include *THAT* scene
by Gene Cowan
It's going to be episode 7. I would expect this to be episode 10. The ultimate cliffhanger, and most shocking TV scene I can recall from distant memory. Plus, it's about 2/3 thru the book, which would be pretty accurate in terms of shooting S3 and 4. More importantly though, Martin has stated OVER AND OVER that he hated writing that portion of the book, and "wants to be out of the country" when that part of the series airs. No way would he commit to basically writing the scene AGAIN. Of course maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. What do you guys think?
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April 11, 2012, 1:10 a.m. CST
"Autumn Storms" will probably have something to do with ...
by Gene Cowan
things at sea. It's mentioned several times that autumn is a very stormy time of year for sea-travel. Any ideas?
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when benioff and an weiss asked George RR martin to let them adapt his books, he asks them as a test only one question? who is jon snow' mother and benioff saidthey gave the right answer and it wasn't even in the books (wich means it's not wylla or ashara Dayne). we are at a point in the books where jon can only be the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Ashara Dayne had probably an affair with Brandon Stark not Ned. when ned came to the tower of joy to "recue" his sister he found not only the kingsguard but the Lord commander of that order. he wasn't with Viserys and Dany at Dragonstone he was here protecting his baby king. Rhaegar wanted three children (the dragon has three heads) for his prophecy but his wife was too fragile to give him a third, it was one of his motivation for his "abduction" of Lyanna, he needed a third child. in one of bran's dream he see a dragon coming out of the crypts beneath winterfell. maybe jon will learn the truth in the crypt and come out a targaryen.
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If not the RW, then perhaps it will contain Balon's early demise. I know that he fell off the rope bridge because of a sea storm (not sure if it was Autumn). GRRM seems to write episodes that contain pivotal plot points (Jamie's capture in S1, Blackwater in S2), so we can at least be pretty sure that something similarly significant will occur in 3.7.
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However, I think we all agree that S3 HAS to finish with the Red Wedding!
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April 11, 2012, 2:47 a.m. CST
biggusdickus, that might end up in S4. lao_hu, that's definitely possible.
by Gene Cowan
The Red Viper vs Mountain is toward the end of ASoS, isn't it? Or at least after the RW (or am I remembering wrong)? That would mean it'll likely be one of the major S4 events. Of course, the other wedding will be THE event of S4, no doubt. As far as Balon and the bridge, that could fit. Seems about right in the timeline, too. I've been curious as to how big of a role Balon will have onscreen, since he wasn't in the books much. The way they're handling many of the off-screen events, it makes sense that they'll show that particular scene in detail. That occurance has always been interesting to me. One of the more popular theories is that Euron hired a Faceless Man to make that happen ... conveniently timed.
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April 11, 2012, 3:37 a.m. CST
I still fear the HBO 'the show is too expensive so lets cancel it and make a different expensive show instead' curse...
by Stegman84
And I will continue to fear that until we have confirmation of the final season based on the final book being greenlit and going forward...
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thanks for ruining the next 2 seasons with your spoilers
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Exactly. I once took a 3 day weekend just to write, I did nothing but sit at my laptop, drink coffee and order pizzas. I got 18 pages written the first day, and 33 in total for the weekend. That's my absolutely most productive writing stint. Even if I had no job or social life or whatnot to get in the way, I would not realistically be able to write that much every day. But 3-5 pages per day would not be an unrealistic average I suppose. I'm currently at 122 pages (first draft), my goal is to be at 200 pages for May 1st. Which is probably overly ambitious but I do have some vacation time at the end of the month. But I think with GRRM people also have to factor in multiple drafts. It's not just the writing itself, it's the fine tuning. And especially with his kind of story, if you change one detail, sometimes that means combing the entire draft to fix things that ripple out of that. That's where a lot of time gets lost, because think about how long it takes just to READ one of his books. Every time you do a new draft you essentially have to read the whole book, AND also be making alterations, and adding/subtracting + editing the existing text.
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Spoiler/Spoiler /Spoiler <p> <p> <br> You have been warned!!!!<p> I don’t think anybody has mentioned this before but did anyone else notice what was implied in A Dance with Dragons. Selmy mentions something about Tywin Lannisters wedding night with Joanna (Cercei, Jamie and Tyrions mother)? Where something is mentioned about the “first night” rights of kings by the mad king , and something might have happened between the King Aerys and Joanna. Which might make the twins, Cercei and Jamie, Targaryen heirs all along? Which would explain the incest (Targaryens intermarried all the time .) This would make Tyrion , the dwarf, Tywins only true born heir . And Ironically, Joffery the legitimate king all along?
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avoid this TB like the plague.
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http://batstud.blogspot.com/
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...she went from having righteous outrage at the death of her family so long ago, her and her brothers exile, and then the loss of her husband. Now she just whines a lot about how hard it is to rule and how her butt is sore from sitting on a throne all day. Not only that but her choice in men is... good grief it makes me shake my head. I dont know, you can tell Martin didnt know what to do with her and hopefully he has some better ideas because her flying off with Rhaego was cool but once again, made me roll my eyes, way to stick with your people Dany.
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April 11, 2012, 7:59 a.m. CST
Great news, but they now need to think about speeding things up.
by castor778
Both the first 2 seasons are benefitted by having the first 2 novels making perfect seasons, but that all changes with the next book and beyond. With A Storm Of Swords, they can definitely spread it out over 2 seasons just because of how much happens, but the creators need to realize there's no way this show will go on for 8-10 seasons or however long it would take to truly stick to the books. HBO will keep it going as long as it has viewers, but no way can they provide the same treatment to A Feast For Crows or A Dance With Dragons, those 2 books need to basically be condensed into just one season and trim the fat as much as possible. I love GRRM's work but I want to actually see it make it's transition to the screen completed, not cancelled because the creators thought they could spend 2-3 seasons covering 2 books where very little happens, a shitload of new characters are introduced, and it's nothing but setup for when winter truly comes. Seriously, I just can't see the casual viewer watching a 6th season where people are still saying "winter is coming" and Dany is still walking around in a fucking desert.
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i agree the two books combined will make a really strong season but two seasons, no the show will loose too much momentum and sense of urgency.
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I really can't wait until he's gone. Haven't read the books - does he ever die? I guess they found the perfect actor for him, because I just can't stand him.
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April 11, 2012, 9:25 a.m. CST
HBO writers have already confirmed that they are going to combine Books 4 and 5 into 1 season
by Titus05
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I like the idea of jon being a targaryen... but could be a red herring. Remember the big deal of seed being strong and ned researching family trees. Jon bears a striking resembelance to a young robert baretheon and he does not have targaryen featurs and hair. As far as i know that means he would have had to inherit his looks completely from his mother and while possible make me wonder. Jon baretheon first of his name? Maybe he marries a certain targaryen in the near future and we get our dragon vs walkers.
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April 11, 2012, 9:43 a.m. CST
All I Did was read the BACK of Book 3, and I had a wince inducing spoiler...*SPOILER*
by JGer
It basically revealed that Joffrey is still alive. I am 100 pages into book 2, and I am going to continue reading at a relentless pace until he dies (if for some reason he never does, please don't tell me).
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April 11, 2012, 10:03 a.m. CST
Didn't they already say season 3 & 4 were being filmed back to back?
by Charlie
I swear I read a while ago that season 3 and 4 were being filmed back to back. Weird.
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Are Varys and Littlefinger working together?
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It was rumored that was what they were hoping to do, but HBO has only renewed it for a 3rd season, thus not allowing them to do so. All that could definitely change though if the ratings continue to stay high. I *think* True Blood still has the highest ratings for HBO, and if Game Of Thrones could pass them I think it'd likely happen, though the trend for both Showtime and HBO lately has been renewing their shows one season at a time.
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April 11, 2012, 10:42 a.m. CST
Breckdog... Robert is TECH a Targaryian... so, there's always that
by Nick
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Definitely not. The further you go the more you realize I really don't think those two like one another. My theory is they both realize that the other is potentially the smartest man in the room. They are two truly dangerous men. Everyone they deal with is basically a moron wielding their power with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. These two control the game, and they don't have the ego that would destroy them through their desire to take credit for their brilliance. They just stay in the back, plotting. Wait until you get to the last event in the books that Varys has been a part of…I was blown away.
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I think they are the two prime movers and competitors in the game of thrones, actually.
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April 11, 2012, 11:25 a.m. CST
Lots of false information here - titus05, grinspoom, castor778
by feldman10
The "Seasons 3 and 4 filming back to back" rumor never had any validity. The showrunners actually said this would be logistically impossible. They have said that they don't WANT to do any more than 10 episodes a year. Nothing is official about the adaptation of Books 4 and 5. The showrunners have said they don't want to split it geographically like the books and make several main characters disappear for a season. But that's all we know.
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I would say that, going forward, 10-episode seasons are really all that are possible, given our 12-month [production] cycle," Weiss said. "For this show specifically, it's really all we can do to do 10 of them in a year. I would say not to expect more than 10 a season any time in the near future ... We had always planned on a 10-episode season [for the show's third year].
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There has to be some thing to the fact that Jon's, Dany's and Tyrion's mothers all died during childbirth. Dany is a Targ, Jon is most likely a Targ... and I do remember something about Tyrion's mother and the Mad King. Is Tyrion a Targ as well? Is Tyrion the 3rd head of the dragon?
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Fuck this 1 Season = 1 book shit HBO, right now, has three books already written for them. Lay out the ENTIRE STORY from the beginning of Book 3, to the end of Book 5. If they can get 4, or 5 seasons worth from the three books, DO IT. Don't cram all of book 3, into one season... and don't spread shit out because that is the way it was done in the books TV and Litrature are completley different mediums. They have teh story, make it into a good TV show. Don't sacrafice the STORY, in order to fit everything into this Season = 1 Book plan.
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with HBO changing more stuff. What works in the books, may not work in the TV show. In the end, I always have my books.... it's not like HBO is taking those away. Do what's best for TV... and don't bend over backwards, and sacrafice visual story telling, just to appease some lame ass fans online.
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April 11, 2012, 12:34 p.m. CST
lowman... that's not a lot of head, in Tyrions case...... BOOYAH!
by Nick
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Baelish’s end game seems to be to make himself as powerful as possible, whereas Varys mostly seems to be trying to maintain the status quo and to put people in power who will want to keep him around. Both are very smart and dangerous men though, and always manage to be several steps ahead of everyone else. The only other character who can hold his own with them seems to be Tyrion. The reemergence of Varys at the end of book 5 also suggests that what we have seen previously of his machinations was only the tip of the iceberg.
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That is the same thing my brother said. He watches each week in the hope that Joffrey will die in that episdode. Unfortunately, you guys are going to have to wait quite a while for that, unless you read the books. That was actually one of my main motivations for reading them.
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April 11, 2012, 12:53 p.m. CST
Natalie, here is showrunner DB Weiss on how they're splitting the books
by feldman10
A season of television needs to feel like a season of television. We have so many storylines to juggle, and they all need to ideally have a sense of a beginning, middle and end over the course of a season. Each character needs to feel like they're traveling a specific road in the course of a season, and coming out as a different person than they went in. It's never going to be about taking a book and ripping it in half -- 'At page 673, this is the place where [the season] ends.' It comes down to case-by-case [decisions] with each story and how best to serve each character's story going forward.
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We've always said that we see the show as an adaptation of George's series, not this book or that book. It's definitely true that 'A Storm of Swords' is too big to even come close to fitting in one season. We've done some shuffling around of things -- as an example, there were some things from Book 2 that ended up in Season 1, and there are probably going to be some things in Book 2 that didn't make it into Season 2 or maybe won't show up later. Book 3 is definitely too much for a 10-episode season, so we're taking the long view of the series of the whole, and trying to do as much justice as possible to George's overall epic story and be as true to the spirit as we can, while keeping it an exciting and viable and vivid as a television show that stands on its own two legs.
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April 11, 2012, 1:01 p.m. CST
HBO's Game of Thrones = What Caligula should have been and certainly wishes to be.
by Emperor
Game of Thrones truly is approaching masterpiece status. If any of you talkbackers have seen Caligula, you will know what I am talking about, when I say that Caligula (Malcolm McDowell, Helen Mirren, Peter O'Toole) was probably supposed to be something like Game of Thrones, but failed miserably. The failure was spectacular. It eventually ended up turning into a filthy, pornographic farce, with no intellectual content whatsoever. Game of Thrones wisely avoids this and smartly plods on, despite the erotic and violent elements. All makers/producers/cast & crew be thanks, that the audience doesn't have to witness another Caligula!! I can honestly say, this is a series that so far deserves the praise and attention it has received. Well done to all, and KEEP IT THE FUCK UP!
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April 11, 2012, 1:11 p.m. CST
I think Varys would live longer than Littlefinger for one simple reason
by Mattman
Varys isn't motivated by greed, and doesn't yearn for a woman. Littlefinger gets off on his power. He's more emotional. That will get the better of him, I think (I haven't read Dance yet, so I dunno what happens there)
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Is that Baelish is ambitious in a bad way, he's greedy and power hungry and wants to put himself at the top of the game to spite some people who have scorned him in the past. Varys, on the other hand, while seeming on the surface more nefarious, actually wants to accomplish something good for the realm, imo. It always sounds like he's being sarcastic when he says, but I think he means it when he talks about how he is the only one who cares for the realm. He's the only one who understands that there isn't anything to rule if all the people are starving and dead and miserable. Taking care of the kingdom IS being a good king. It's the exact thing that Cersei utterly fails to understand. The final chapter in S5 confirms this mostly, he's been playing the entire time since roberts Rebellion to get young aegon back in the game, because he thinks he can be an actually good King and leader. It's a very interesting dichotomy. Littlefinger really is kind of the devil. Varys seems like the devil, but I think he cares for the realm in the truest way. He came from nothing, doesn't have a dick (so his ambitions are limited in yet another way), and I just think he has a totally different perspective on the whole situation. Littlefinger is like half of a lord, came from a joke of a family, and has always been a punchline. His ego still suffers from Catelyn and Brandon Stark. He just wants to prove how smart he is. He's very, very dangerous imo
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We will see some of Book 3, in THIS season. Craster, doesn't seem like a character that will stick around for 2 seasons.... his days are numbered... given the ending of the last episode.
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...Arya looks like the Starks. We're told that Arya looks like Lyanna and that Jon looks like Arya... it's the transitive property of R+L=J.
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April 11, 2012, 1:38 p.m. CST
@jger, don't make the same mistake by reading the description of book four
by bah
It spoils most of the key points of the third book.
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The thing about all the mothers dying in childbirth is that Westros is based on Medieval Europe and, unfortunately, the deaths of mothers in childbirth was much more common. One of the hallmarks of Martin's story is the degree to which the historical details are realistic and consistent. And, the 3rd Head of the Dragon has pretty much been revealed in ADWD. If you read it, you'll find out who it is.
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If you believe Young Grif is who they say he is... which I dont.
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Remember how Azor Ahai tried to forge his sword Lightbringer? On his third try, he plunged his sword into his wife Nissa Nissa, and she died to create Lightbringer. If we're creative about the definition of "sword," it becomes very interesting how Dany, Jon, and Tyrion are all apparently third children whose moms died in childbirth. The dragon has three heads...
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SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this above yet, but the prophecy of Azor Ahai seems like it explains what's going with JS at the end of Book 5 -- "It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone."-- We're meant to assume the red star is the comet, but it could very well be the Queen's Man with the star on his chest getting ripped apart by the giant at the time of the double-cross (also a in-joke GRRM is making about the New York Giants v. the Dallas Cowboys) The smoke is the smoking wounds, presumably. The salt is the oft-mentioned salt used to keep stuff in the Wall's storehouses. Presumably, Jon will find himself in one of those at the start of book 6. Also, I expect all of the readers here know this, but there's a chapter from Book 6 online also: http://georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html
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He is, Rhaegar's second child. Jon, would be the third...
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Jon isn't the only child to look like a Stark rather than a Tully. Sansa is the pretty girl, Arya has a horse face. Anyway, the more I hear the theory that Jon Snow is actually heir to the Iron Throne as a son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, the more it makes sense. I wonder what will happen to Gendry?
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i disagree. i think this idea that varys is fighting for the realm comes from waht varys said to ned stark in the dungeons. varys told ne stark what he wanted to hear. Varys is a foreigner, he is not westerosi it's really hard to know what his endgame is. i don't believe for one second that varys is working toward a targaryen restoration. Barristan Selmy told Stannis that the rot in aeris 's reign came with Varys. Varys fueled his paranoia, and he poisoined him against Rhaegar. i don't trust him and i don't trust his friend illyrio.
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April 11, 2012, 2:37 p.m. CST
Varys is working to put a blackfyre targaryen on the throne
by heylookoverthere
"Aegon" = Illyrio's son with his blackfyre wife he show's Tyrion the picture of. http://www.red dit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/p844r/adwd_spoilers_and_speculation_septon_meribald/
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a scene here or there as the series skips right on to Book 5. At least, that's my wish. As it is, if Book 4 is a season on HBO, it might kill off the series.
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April 11, 2012, 3:21 p.m. CST
Which Upcoming Locations Does Everyone Think Will Look Coolest In The Opening?
by Crow3711
The Iron Islands and Pyke is probably the most badass one so far. Harrenhall is an obvious choice for super cool. I also think Riverrun could potentially look really nice on there. Dorne should be interesting next season, not sure what they'll do with the architecture there. Water Gardens? Also, all the colorful cities Dany goes to of course… Anyone else?
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SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS At this late date, with no Blackfish, Edmund, or cat's dad, it seems like Riverrun has been condensed out of the story. Then again, I guess Edmund is a prerequisite for the RW.
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I think they've screwed up the second book so far. Pity because I love the crap out of the first season.
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April 11, 2012, 3:47 p.m. CST
screwed up the 2nd book? Guess what, go read the book... this is an ADAPTATION... Why is that so fucking hard to understand.
by Nick
Seems like many fans, just want a cast of people to stand around, and read "line by line" the book to them. Saying it screwed up the book... after only TWO FUCKING EPISODES... jerk-off
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That would be a shame.
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It doesn't really add much to the overall story. I wasn't a big fan of those chapters in the books.
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...concerning the end game of the series and honestly I think he may have a bigger affect on the overall way things turn out. More so than either Dany or Jon Snow. Once again I think Martin loves the underdogs even if they are usually the ones getting murdered, raped and left to starve or freeze. This would be Little Finger, Varys, Tyrion, and Bran. Hell I wouldnt surprised if Dany and Jon and the rest of Westeros are manipulated, controlled, or what have you by the end of the game. Also I think Martin will surprise us all and have something like the seven kingdoms returning to what they were and the Iron Throne being dissolved. I dont think things will end on a "happy" note, they may defeat the walkers and such, but I dont see many people surviving the battle, let alone the monstrous winter descending on the world.
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April 11, 2012, 3:58 p.m. CST
Im actually most interested if Martin will reveal why the seasons are so fucked...
by some dude
... I've heard mention of some incredible catastrophic event that happened before even the Age of Legends and Im curious if Martin will ever give us an idea of what really caused this.
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That will throw off the events off Jaime losing his prized possession pretty severely. but I guess it's possible. A shame though.
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Yea I've also wondered if he's ever going to go into what exactly happened in Old Valyria, what "The Doom" really was, etc. It just seems like an incredibly catastrophic volcanic eruption, but does that have anything to do with the seasons being wonky? Does that even matter, or is it just a given circumstance of the fantasy universe?
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The biggest of the wall rumor I heard about why the seasons are, the way they are This all happens, on EARTH... after a nuclear war. Landscapes are changed... weather patterns are changed... people evolved into different races and beings due to radiation... and dragons were formed from the fallout as well... WE ARE the ancient race... or something along those lines.... stupid and crazy... but I thought you could use a laugh
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April 11, 2012, 4:09 p.m. CST
God Nat I hope not, that is one of the most overused ideas in fantastical fiction.
by some dude
Everyone uses that idea, I remember when i started realizing that was the general idea of what happened in the Shannara series and I wanted to gag. It was cool at first when it was incredibly vaguely hinted at... then he just started telling us everything and I couldnt take it. Now mind you I dont mind some ancient civilization or anything like that but good god I hope its not just old Earth or something.
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The Doom only happened like 300 years before the beginning of the Story and the seasons were apparently fucked up before Bran raised the Wall and Azor Azai fought back the original invasion of the White Walkers. Not that they couldnt be related but I think the Doom was partially caused by the fact that the Valyrians were digging their mines further and further down under their island chain and totally destabilized it, or at least helped to cause what happened. Not exactly smart digging gigantic mine systems miles down on a volcanic island.
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April 11, 2012, 4:13 p.m. CST
hope we do get to see something, of the Shadow Lands in teh book...
by Nick
WHY did they have the Dragon eggs... where did they get them from.....
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April 11, 2012, 4:19 p.m. CST
I dont think we will get to see much of the Shadowlands...
by some dude
... sort of like Jordan never went past the huge Eastern dessert and just sort of left the Far East in A Wheel of Times world a mystery with some vague ideas, hints and rumors as to what was over there. Not that people dont know whats in Asshai but a lot of Western fiction writers never seem to branch out into "Eastern" lands. Even Robert E Howard never went past "India" with Conan the Barbarian. Not sure why this is, maybe they never consider themselves knowledgeable enough to recreate or make their own version of the magical East. Or maybe its just a bit racist.
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Thankfully there is NO hint anywhere in the books that it's Earth, future or past.
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April 11, 2012, 4:23 p.m. CST
Mattman you missed the part where the Stranger is often holding a can of coke.
by some dude
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My pick it's Rickon. He slipped away after Winterfell fell and has been mysteriously absent ever since.
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Im sure he'll reappear in the books at some point but its not like he has some secret army to summon, its basically just him and the wilding woman and his direwolf. He also doesnt seem to have the same powers as Bran nor does he have anyone he can go to for help, like the Boltons would help him any.
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i have a little theory about the doom of valyria. i think Sam in oldtown will discover a great archmaester concpiracy. they hates magic and they want to create a world without magic. i think the archmaesters were behind the doom of valyria and the near extinction of the dragons because dragons are magic made flesh. but in doing so they have destroyed the balance between ice and fire and without knowing prepared the return of the whitewalkers
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April 11, 2012, 5:22 p.m. CST
Honestly, I hope he never answers the mystery about the Valyrians... brings an Atlantis style vibe... I like it
by Nick
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April 11, 2012, 5:25 p.m. CST
Had a crazy idea... if GRRM does take forever to release the 6th book... or even the 7th
by Nick
Why not pull a Sparticus, and do a prequel series... How cool would it be, to see Robert and Rhaegar do battle in a river... of the Mad King... or a young Tywin... or a young Jaime... There is such a rich backstory... it almost deserves a book series itself... and a show...
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but maybe they will adapt dunk and egg short stories
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... how exactly would the maesters, a fairly small group of very intelligent men, at least for their world, go about doing any of that? You do realize Valyria was a set of island chains controlled by one of the largest, most advanced, and all around powerful empires to exist in the GoT world? They conquered a huge chunk of the world and basically controlled the GoT equivalent of atomic weapons in the dragons. Not only that but they had better more advanced weapons, gigantic armies, and more wealth than most of the other nations combined. Not only that but how would the Maesters cause the entire island chain to basically destroy itself? Your theory needs some serious work, or rather just toss that one in the trash bin and start over.
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April 11, 2012, 5:41 p.m. CST
nat: I've had teh same suggestion about a prequel season
by Rebel Scumb
There's certainly a lot of material to mine, at least one seasons worth
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April 11, 2012, 5:43 p.m. CST
Does anyone else besides me find all the Dorne stuff completely uninteresting?
by Rebel Scumb
I'm not sure why but those characters and their culture always feels very ill defined compared to the rest of the cast. Any time I get to a Dorne related chapter I'm always eager for it to be over. It just feels like the one piece of story which makes the overall saga a bit too crowded
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April 11, 2012, 5:43 p.m. CST
But hey what do I know, I'm also the only one who thinks Davos is the most boring character in the series
by Rebel Scumb
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April 11, 2012, 5:45 p.m. CST
I just really want to see Rhaegar onscreen... I mean, they have to cast the guy, right????
by Nick
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April 11, 2012, 5:46 p.m. CST
HS, I do think the Maester's theory actually has a lot of merit
by Rebel Scumb
Perhaps they may not have caused the doom, but they do have 'agents' in every prominent house in westeros, the ears of all the kings and lords. And I see them as sort of the scientists of Westeros, so perhaps they used alchemy or explosives or wildfire or something like that to destroy Valyria even if they didn't cause the doom, I think the notion that they were the ones who moved the world away from magic is pretty valid.
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April 11, 2012, 5:52 p.m. CST
I read a theory that the reason Valyria didn't conquor westeros
by heylookoverthere
Years ago was that they were afraid of the westerosi skinchangers taking control of their dragons, so they stopped at dragonstone. Then after the doom when most of westeros forgot about skinchanging the targaryans decided to invade.
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April 11, 2012, 5:55 p.m. CST
Rebel Scum, dragons being gone for hundreds of years did that.
by some dude
That is the reason that magic is coming back and then some, the dragons are returned to the world and have brought it back. Also again how in the world would the Maesters take down Valyria, it just doesnt make any sense in terms of the scale of it. It'd be like throwing a pebble at a mountain and expecting it to fall down. The maesters didnt cause the doom, Valyria did. Its basically hinted that they brought it down on themselves for a variety of reasons. Not only that but maesters didnt have much with taking out magic, that would be the Seven and those who believe in them if anything. They destroyed many weirwoods and basically threw out the Old Gods in favor of their new ones.
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April 11, 2012, 5:57 p.m. CST
heylookoverthere, the Targaryans invaded because Valyria fell and they needed a new empire.
by some dude
The Doom arrived and Valyria was destroyed leaving Aegon and his sisters and their three dragons as all that was left of their royal line and kingdom. They were on Dragon Stone at the time and decided to take Westeros for themselves.
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April 11, 2012, 6:02 p.m. CST
I agree the dragons returning brought magic back into the world
by Rebel Scumb
but it wouldn't surprise me if the maesters had a hand in dragons going extinct
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April 11, 2012, 6:08 p.m. CST
Actually there was a while between the doom and the war of conquest
by heylookoverthere
Aegon was born post-doom, with his father and grandfather living on dragonstone before him. My point was more that pre-doom, Valyria had conquered pretty much every landmass we know of except westeros.
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I dont think they ever conquered anything past Vaes Dothrak. I dont think there is any mention of them conquering the shadowlands or any of Southros.
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April 11, 2012, 6:27 p.m. CST
Also most skin changers have trouble controlling anything more than dogs or wolves.
by some dude
The six skins guy was incredibly well known for having several animals under his control and many were not easy to control. Things like bears and the such being incredibly hard to control. I cant imagine a skin changer taking control of a dragon, hell even taking control of people is not an easy task.
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April 11, 2012, 6:29 p.m. CST
Also where did you read the part about his father and grand father?
by some dude
Because I dont remember ever seeing that in the books. I may have just forgotten or missed it but it was my impression that Aegon conquered Westeros shortly after the Doom fell on Valyria.
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http://www.west eros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/LA_Con_IV_Anaheim_CA_August_23_271/ He said it at a book signing or something and I read it on there. I don't remember anything suggesting that different animals are more difficult/easier to warg into, just that once an animal has had one warg control it, it's easier for another warg to enter the animal. (like Bran with the ravens in the last book.) Anyway Bran has bloodraven to teach him all about warging. I figure Dany's got Drogon, one of the other dragon's will be warged into by Bran and the last one bound to the horn that Euron gave his brother (but probably first preformed the ritual so that no matter who blows it, the dragon is bound to Euron.)
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April 11, 2012, 6:49 p.m. CST
Anyone else mad, that Danny's dress this season, will cover both tits?
by Nick
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April 11, 2012, 6:59 p.m. CST
Varamir and others have said controlling anything besides a dog is difficult.
by some dude
The wilder and stronger willed the animal, the harder it is for a skin changer to control. Varamir was an anomaly because he could control so many different animals all at once and one of the more powerful skin changers in the books. I think it was even Varamir who said that controlling something like a bear takes an incredible amount of concentration, skill and natural talent because the bear is a mighty animal and not one that likes a little human controlling. Now just imagine a mammoth, let alone a dragon being controlled like that. I dont see it being easy except for someone like Bran. Also Im fairly sure Dany isnt making it across the ocean with all her dragons, Im betting even that the other two might be killed or something of the sort, especially when Victarion shows up.
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...but with all the nudity and violence in the series already you would think a tit hanging out wouldnt be such a big deal. Doesnt make much sense to me. Though Im sure someone will be like,"YOU DONT LIKE BOOBIES" har har whenever I bring up Roz the useless whore.
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...but it wasn't the maesters. In AFFC the Kindly Man strongly hints to Arya that the Faceless Men, who originated as slaves in the mines of Valyria, orchestrated the Doom.
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Littlefinger is told to leave... she will take over the brothel... and that plot line with Joeffrey and his safety.
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April 11, 2012, 7:05 p.m. CST
I think the faceless men started in Valyria's mines, not destroyed them.
by some dude
Since the faceless men arent really about revenge or the like. They basically make a point of the fact that the only act for very specific reasons and I dont think petty things like vengance and such really resonates with them. I mean they basically try to destroy who you were, to make you faceless, and that would mean all your old grudges and loves. I believe they even state that they give the strangers gift to both the mine slaves as well as the slave masters.
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April 11, 2012, 7:07 p.m. CST
Meh, less Roz means more time for other more interesting scenes and characters.
by some dude
I mean seriously she is basically used for sex scenes and to get some character moments and stories that we would have gotten anyway. Id rather they focus on the really interesting characters but meh thats just me.
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The Kindly Man tells Arya a story about how the first Faceless Man gave "the gift" to a slave (killed him) in Valyria's mines. Arya says he should've killed the masters. Kindly Man responds, "He would bring the gift to them as well . . . but that is a tale for another day." A lot of people read from that that they're behind the Doom. I don't think we really know much about the true agenda of the Faceless Men yet, all we know is what they have chosen to reveal to Arya. Jaqen H'ghar is currently up to something very important in the Citadel too. I don't think they're just mindless assassins, I think they have an agenda and they'll affect the plot in a big way eventually.
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April 11, 2012, 8:14 p.m. CST
Umm Liberal Warrior when did we state or act like we are the only ones who read the books?
by some dude
Because I dont think that is anywhere in this thread. We are discussing something we all really enjoy, you know like sports fans discuss their favorite sports team? Or people like talking about sex even though others have had it? Get over yourself buddy, you're the only jack ass acting like he's special.
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...they just seem very disconnected from the rest of the world in how they think and act. Again they dont seem to really take part in the rest of the world except to kill people for their reasons. Then again we havent seen much of them or their innermost workings but again, how would you destroy an entire island chain? We can barely do that in ourworld without resorting to a quick and easy answer like nukes. Also if anything, it seems like the Faceless men are stealing or infiltrating the Citadel. I dont think they would need to be killing its trainees otherwise. I've actually wondered if there are connections between the different assassin societies like the Sorrowful men who try to take out Dany.
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April 11, 2012, 8:37 p.m. CST
I guess it's like when people say 'the smorning' instead of 'this morning'
by Rebel Scumb
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April 11, 2012, 8:46 p.m. CST
Liberal Warrior Im a geek on a geek website in a geek forum geeking out over my thing.
by some dude
If you got a problem with that then you best never come back to this sight again because you're going to have an aneurism. Seriously what seems so out of place and rage worthy about this discussion? Sir let me just say, eat a dick. I'll not be giving you the attention you so desire
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April 11, 2012, 8:51 p.m. CST
Let me reiterate, eat a dick sir, that isnt from or about the book, so enjoy!
by some dude
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April 11, 2012, 8:52 p.m. CST
Anyway who wants to talk more about the book and post lots of spoilers to boot?
by some dude
Everybody dies!
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I go away for a while, and the Riffraff plant their Soiled Flag! Most foul. Most foul indeed. I demand Satisfaction from the Lords of this once-hallowed Establishment.
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April 11, 2012, 8:58 p.m. CST
Dude Im a geek, this is what I do. Im not ashamed of that of it!
by some dude
Ive also spent more hours than most people would admit to painting Warhammer 40K models and I dont even play the game anymore, I just like painting and making models of nerdy stuff! Or how Ive went to a scifi convention cosplaying as Dante from DMC... though that actually got me a lot of attention and action so I guess that isnt sooo geeky. Surprising what a gun bra, a red trench cloak and a six pack can get you!
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April 11, 2012, 8:59 p.m. CST
I do wonder, does Harry enjoy Game of Thrones? Seems like it would be right up his Grand Canyon
by some dude
what with all the Lord of the Rings love that big man has.
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April 11, 2012, 9:01 p.m. CST
The Third Liberal Warrior and The Hawai'ian Stallion, I implore you to take your scrum elsewhere.
by Emerald Snoggingbottom
This is an Honorable Establishment for Honorable and Reputable Men of Opinion and Insight. Waste not our time.
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April 11, 2012, 9:03 p.m. CST
If you do, however, insist on continuing your Argument here, at least have the Decency to spell words correctly.
by Emerald Snoggingbottom
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April 11, 2012, 9:03 p.m. CST
Sir you still havent eaten that dick! Did I mention Im an asshole? Get over it or get on because that aint changing anytime soon!
by some dude
Oh and yes I did write that bitch. GRRM just stole it. Also Del Toro stole my idea for a Labyrinth, a little girl and Franco Spain.
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April 11, 2012, 9:07 p.m. CST
And I am done, seriously. I'd like to talk more about Game of Thrones! Spoilers about Mormonts Raven
by some dude
Anyone think its been under the control of either the three eyed crow or Cold Hands? Would certainly make all those times Mormonts raven had something rather intelligent to squak at him or Jon.
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April 11, 2012, 9:07 p.m. CST
The Hawai'ian Stallion: Sir, please abstain from using the Vulgar Contraction 'ain't.'
by Emerald Snoggingbottom
It is MOST unbecoming, especially for a gentleman who aspires to share association with such a Noble Animal.
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April 11, 2012, 9:09 p.m. CST
It is obvious that Mormont's Raven is operating under the persuasion of a Warg.
by Emerald Snoggingbottom
Only a Slobbering Fool would not recognise that.
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April 11, 2012, 9:10 p.m. CST
'American English.' Never have I encountered a more Preposterous and Insulting Phrase.
by Emerald Snoggingbottom
The blood shivers.
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... and he has an incredibly control over huge amounts of ravens though I guess that could be the three eyed raven working with or through him as well. Im actually very curious as to who or what Cold Hands is. I mean most people think its Benjen but what the hell does that make him? A good Wight? He's obviously not alive and his hands are black as a wights
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April 11, 2012, 9:18 p.m. CST
The Third Liberal Warrior is a wanton Purveyor of linguistic Atrocity.
by Emerald Snoggingbottom
Take your childish and Vulgar Speech to the local Tavern and leave the more erudite and refined folk to our Discussion.
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April 11, 2012, 9:19 p.m. CST
Many years I have come here and I have yet to encounter someone so filled with Hatred and Bile.
by Emerald Snoggingbottom
The Third Liberal Warrior is a Model of poor Social Behavior, a Fact which likely betrays unsavory Personal Hygiene and Grooming.
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April 11, 2012, 9:20 p.m. CST
Where, The Hawai'ian Stallion, did I suggest that Cold Hands is a Warg?
by Emerald Snoggingbottom
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April 11, 2012, 9:23 p.m. CST
I meant the fact that I dont think he's a warg but seems to have mighty control over ravens.
by some dude
Its probably the Three Eyed Raven or some such controlling Mormonts raven but Cold Hands is constantly followd by Ravens and can control them to the point of attacking the wights and helping Bran and them. So who knows, maybe he was or is a warg too but he definitly isnt alive anymore. Im just curious to what he is. Maybe the Children of the Forest are like the White Walkers and can create wights?
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How DARE insult me in such a manner, sir?
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April 11, 2012, 9:59 p.m. CST
I wish they would film as much as possible now. Just go into production for a year or so...
by Jaka
...and then air the episodes over the next two or three years. I'm already noticing that the youngest girl is aging faster than she should be and it's bugging me. Plus, some of the older actors/actresses are going to keep showing their age if HBO drags this thing out for a decade or so (which they could easily do).
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For fucks sake. Fukken ain't even a word.
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April 11, 2012, 10:08 p.m. CST
The children do grow older in the books... there are many mentions of Sansas big boobs!
by some dude
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If it works for/with the story, I guess that's cool. But if it feels wrong, and it's already starting down that path with 'Arya', then it pulls me out of the story. I always figured there would be some recasting at some point of the series kept going.
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just wondering- how much time has passed within the five books of the series? a year? two? five? i'm not sure...
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I mean Dany does a lot in a little amount of time but even that must have taken quite a long amount of time.
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April 11, 2012, 11 p.m. CST
Approximately three years have passed over the course of the five books.
by Sardonic
It's less than year per book, generally. But Dance and Feast technically take place at the same time for the better part of them, so it evens out. But yeah, it's definitely longer than a year. It takes more than a month for someone to get from Winterfell to Kingslanding.
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April 11, 2012, 11:05 p.m. CST
Yeah its always hard for me to tell with all the jumping around
by some dude
and there arent many decent timelines after the series actually starts.
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April 12, 2012, 12:11 a.m. CST
How's it gonna look when the actor playing bran is all grown by the 5th season and still has to ride on hodor's back?
by steven18k
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I'm sure it'll be fine.
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I found episode 1 crammed way too much in and I even disliked the way the actor who plays Littlefinger changed his voice and accent (came across as deeper etc). I loved episode 2, almost everything anyway because I found the Ros / Littlefinger scene unnecessary. I find myself rooting more Davos in the series more so than I did/do in the books. What a superb casting! Other notable casting successes are Balon and Yara/Asha Greyjoy; Janos Slynt, Craster, Saladhor, Delorus Edd and Jaqen H'gar. Still not sold on Gilly or Melisandra and I think Stannis should be sterner although I can see why they've softened him slightly compared to the books because the audience needs convincing as to why Davos is rooting for him despite his faults. Looking forward to more Tywin, Jaime, reply and Brienne (looked worryingly like Robocop unmasked in the trailers I hope they don't mess her up!). CoK is my favourite book of ASOIAF I hope they don't water it down too much and some of the plot spills into season 3! I have faith in HBO they did a great job with book 1.
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Hawaiian stallion look to grrms other works. I am not suggesting it is the same planet but he has written about a planet before with long seasons like in asoiaf. Perhaps it is for the same reason. He strikes me as the type to copy his own work if he believes he can make it better.
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they are clearly controlled by the three eyed crow and the way this raven is looking at jon, reading his letter (with the bravoosi banker) and calling him king
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but the Lovecraftian stuff alone makes it worth sticking with.
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April 12, 2012, 9:20 a.m. CST
Seriously, is there an ass whipe on here, complaining that we are actually HAVING a talkback? This fucking site... I tell ya.
by Nick
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It is just a fantastical aspect of the story world, in the same way that there are dragons and myriad godlike powers. There is no need to reconcile it with the physical laws of our own world, and to try to do so would diminish the story, imo. Probably he best thing about the series is that it is about realistic people living in a fantastic setting. It contains all the dirt and sadness of real life, only with magic added into the mix. You could probably even call it a sort of magic realism.
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If they are splitting the third book into two, it could refer to the scene of Bran & co. hiding in the tower during the thunderstorm. At the same time Jon is nearby with the Wildlings and escapes back to the Wall.
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Bran's journey could easily be filmed before the actor gets older. Luckily, they only cross two of the other actors briefly so they could easily film those scenes far in advance of the scenes for other characters.
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**WARNING: SPOILERS** __________________ ___________________ With the signing of S3 and GRRM speaking about how ASOS will be split is excellent news for a fandom that has pined for this series for seemingly an endless winter. That said I am all on board with the R + L = J theory, even though I am something of a "casual fan" (and by casual I mean I blew through four of the books in two months in 2010) turned rabid over the television show. The minor changes in the show have not affected me thus far though I know by the end of this season, that dynamic will change. We need to keep perspective. I think George has this all planned out already and although it may take long than expected for TWOW and ADOS, but D &D have been informed about key plot points. I suppose in some respects I'll be more than a little depressed over HBO GRRM to the tv over the printed page. Nevertheless, like Stannis's men in five feet of snow, we soldier on.
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April 12, 2012, 4:24 p.m. CST
For fellow book readers, re: cold hands (spoiler to non-readers)
by Rebel Scumb
I presume I'm not the only one who assumes Cold Hands is undead-Benjen Stark?
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I think there was a quote from the producers stating that there production schedule already is 12 months just to do the 10 episodes hence why they can't do 12 episode seasons without creating delays so to start a backlog of episodes or scenes going further ahead would mean several years between seasons either that or HBo doubling the budget, to double the production team and shoot twice as many episodes at once, and that will never happen
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What is your source?
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It's not a fact, just a theory. They keep bringing up Benjen and leaving his fate unconfirmed, Coldhands also seems like a character who is supposed to be someone we already know. Location/proximity as well.
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And producing 10 hours of high production motion picture quality in one year is a pretty astounding feat as is. I'll just have to wait and see what happens. I haven't read the books, so maybe it won't bother me too much. But I'll be bummed out if it seems like no time is passing but the actors are years older.
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Yes, I assumed Coldhands was Benjen Stark as well
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Don't think he's Benjen, cause Leaf (the child of the forest) says he died a long time ago.
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when Sam encountered him. But the more he was around the more I felt that didn't make sense. After all, wouldn't Bran recognize him if he was Benjen?
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Wasn't his face always covered up?
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Didn't he burn his hand on the lantern when he killed the white walker in the Old Bear's chamber? It bothers him throughout the books. He is clearly not impervious to fire the way Dany is. Can't see how he could be a Targaryan. Maybe I'm wrong though, I missed all those other clues and they seem pretty reasonable. Always assumed that Cold Hands is Benjen.
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So I don't know that is good enough proof, but it's definitely an interesting thing to note. I know the targaryens all believed, or wanted to believe, they were immune to fire, but perhaps only the really special ones (Dany) are? I don't know, but good ol Viserys certainly was not.
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He could have been immune to the burns but the melted gold froze to his head and killed him aside from the heat and fire. Stands to reason I guess
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The show sort of implies that she at least believes she is, but in last book she gets burnt by drogon and has painful blisters from it. Martin has said before that her funeral pyre experience was a one time magical event.
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