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Herc’s Seen The Season Premieres Of GAME OF THRONES And THE KILLING!! Discuss Also MAD MEN 5.2, AVENGERS, SPIDER-MAN, ONCE, GREAT EXPECTATIONS, WICKED TUNA, The Space Program On 60 MINUTES And More!!

Published at: April 1, 2012, 5:53 a.m. CST

 

I am – Hercules!!

For the next 10 weeks, my two favorite ongoing series will be airing back to back every Sunday: “Game of Thrones” at 9 p.m. followed by “Mad Men” at 10 p.m. I am one happy Hercules.

Especially so because “Thrones” launches its second season magnificently. Howard Hawks -- whose eyebrow-raising filmography includes everything from “His Girl Friday” and the 1932 “Scarface” to “The Thing From Another World” and “Rio Bravo” – described the secret to moviemaking success thusly: “Three great scenes and no bad ones.”

“Thrones” overseers David Benioff and D.B. Weiss seem to continue to traffic only in the great scenes. It’s like 11 great shows packed into a single serial. I cannot wait to complete this post so I can finish watching the new season’s third and fourth episodes.

HBO Says of tonight’s season premiere, “The North Remembers”:

As Robb Stark and his northern army continue the war against the Lannisters, Tyrion arrives in King’s Landing to counsel Joffrey and temper the young king’s excesses. On the island of Dragonstone, Stannis Baratheon plots an invasion to claim his late brother’s throne, allying himself with the fiery Melisandre, a strange priestess of a stranger god. Across the sea, Daenerys, her three young dragons and khalasar trek through the Red Waste in search of allies, or water. In the North, Bran presides over a threadbare Winterfell, while beyond the Wall, Jon Snow and the Night’s Watch must shelter with a devious wildling. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Alan Taylor.

More in the text invisible.

* The season opens on a high castle wall in King’s Landing, and I’ll be darned if somebody dressed slightly (slightly!) like Captain America doesn’t show up before the first scene is concluded.

* The Hound appears in this first scene and cements my love for him with a single line to his king.

* All the Lannisters seem rather less blonde this season.

* Brainy Tyrion gets Ned Stark’s old job, and he seems rather well suited to it.

* With Ned dead and Robb off defeating Lannisters, it is great fun see how young Bran copes with being the new Lord of Winterfell.

* Despite the punishing heat, fireproof dragonmistress Daenerys keeps her clothes on this week.

* The ongoing tale of the Night Watch remains one of the series best elements as the bastard Jon Snow is confronted by the “foul” practices of Watch ally Craster.

* Theon Greyjoy, the son a Stark enemy raised by House Stark, assumes a more impactful role this week.

* Stannis Baratheon, much discussed in season one, finally appears midway through tonight’s installment. Like the Cylons, he believes only in One True God. I adore him for his disdain for compromise. I’m also impressed with the hot witch with whom he now consorts.

* Now that Stannis is front and center, brother Renly Baratheon (though still a key player in the ongoing tale), now lurks only offscreen.

* Baelish, a.k.a. Littlefinger, gets one of the more memorable scenes this week.

* Possibly the week’s best line? “A bit corpse-y, yes.”

 

AMC Says Of tonight’s two-hour season premiere of “The Killing”:

In the aftermath of the shooting at City Hall and Linden's discovery that the photo leading to Councilman Darren Richmond's arrest was forged, Sarah returns to Seattle to investigate a possible cover up and wonders if she can trust her partner.

* Even though season two picks up minutes after season one, the great Michelle Forbes is missing from the season opener. Stan Larsen, we learn, is having trouble contacting Mitch.

* We learn definitively this week why detective Stephen Holder did what he did.

* TV characters get shot all the time with little consequence. Darren Richmond, it turns out, is no J.R. Ewing or Boyd Crowder or Carl Grimes.

* How does it end? Stan Larsen explains what he wants.

Last week we learned that “Mad Men” had settled into the summer of 1966 (the summer of “Last Train To Clarksville” and “Paint It Black”), that Megan and Don married, that Megan learned pretty quickly that Don Draper and Dick Whitman have different birthdays, that Megan likes to tidy in her undies, that Bert Cooper returned to SCDP, that Rebecca Pryce is back in New York, that Pete Campbell craves Roger Sterling’s office, and that Joan Holloway has a building supervisor named Apollo.

Did anybody besides me think Megan was going to tumble to her death at the end of the first hour?

AMC Says Of “Tea Leaves”:

As Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce tries to build upon its current business, Peggy is given new responsibility. Don and Harry indulge a client.

 

 

AMC’s “Mad Men” garnered its best ratings ever with last week’s 5th season premiere. It clobbered NBC’s “Harry’s Law,” which fell to another new low:

Sundays, Jan. 29-March 25, 2012
(Adults 18-49; repeats in gray; older weeks in parentheses)
2.9 (2.9) (2.9) (3.4) (---) (3.1) (3.0) (---) (3.5) Once Upon A Time
2.6 (2.7) (2.9) (2.8) (2.2) (2.8) (---) (---) (---) The Amazing Race
2.6 (2.6) (2.6) (2.5) (---) (2.2) (1.8) (---) (---) Desperate Housewives
2.3 (2.2) (1.7) (1.6) (1.3) (1.8) (2.8) (0.5) (1.5) 60 Minutes
2.1 (1.8) (2.1) (2.1) (1.1) (2.2) (---) (0.6) (2.3) CSI Miami
2.1 (2.8) (2.8) (2.8) (1.6) (2.8) (2.5) (1.1) (3.1) Family Guy
2.1 (2.0) (2.3) (2.2) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) GCB
2.0 (2.2) (2.2) (2.1) (1.5) (2.2) (1.8) (1.0) (2.4) American Dad
2.0 (2.1) (1.9) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Bob’s Burgers
1.9 (2.4) (2.3) (2.5) (1.6) (2.6) (2.0) (0.8) (2.4) The Simpsons
1.8 (1.8) (2.0) (2.3) (1.8) (2.6) (---) (---) (---) Celebrity Apprentice
1.8 (1.9) (1.7) (1.9) (---) (2.1) (---) (---) (2.2) The Good Wife
1.6 (0.8) (---) (0.9) (3.3) (0.7) (1.0) (---) (0.6) NBA Basketball
1.5 (1.5) (1.6) (1.5) (1.0) (1.2) (1.2) (0.8) (1.3) Cleveland Show
1.4 (1.2) (1.2) (1.5) (0.9) (---) (1.3) (1.2) (2.1) Real Housewives Atl
1.3 (0.9) (1.2) (1.0) (1.2) (1.0) (1.1) (---) (1.3) Ax Men
1.2 (1.3) (1.4) (2.2) (---) (2.0) (2.0) (0.7) (1.9) AFH Videos
1.2 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Mad Men
1.0 (1.1) (0.9) (1.0) (1.1) (---) (1.6) (---) (---) Dateline
0.9 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Long Island Medium
0.8 (0.9) (1.0) (1.2) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Army Wives
0.8 (1.0) (1.1) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Harry’s Law
0.8 (0.5) (0.6) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Shahs Of Sunset
0.8 (0.6) (0.7) (0.8) (---) (0.8) (0.8) (0.5) (0.7) Shameless
0.8 (0.7) (1.0) (0.9) (0.8) (0.9) (0.6) (---) (---) Worst Cooks
0.7 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Loiter Squad
0.7 (0.7) (0.6) (0.7) (---) (0.8) (0.7) (---) (1.1) Mob Wives
0.7 (---) (0.5) (0.5) (---) (---) (---) (---) (0.7) Watch What Happens
0.6 (0.5) (0.7) (0.5) (0.4) (---) (---) (---) (0.6) Cupcake Wars
0.6 (0.6) (0.8) (0.6) (0.5) (0.6) (0.9) (---) (---) Full Metal Jousting
0.6 (0.4) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Unchained Reaction
0.5 (0.7) (0.7) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Breakout Kings
0.4 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Leave It To Niecy

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Readers Talkback

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  • April 1, 2012, 6:25 a.m. CST

    Love GOT

    by edmanger

    Not started Mad Men yet though. What's its hook? I'm used to the crazy action from pretty much every other show (breaking bad, sopranos, got etc)

  • April 1, 2012, 6:28 a.m. CST

    Also, some news on Breaking Bad

    by edmanger

    http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s166/breaking-bad/interviews/a374047/breaking-bad-vince-gilligan-talks-the-final-episodes.html Apparently more flashbacks

  • April 1, 2012, 6:33 a.m. CST

    Mad Men

    by mus42

    Absolutely agree, I also thought Megan was going over that balcony, maybe later in the season? She does seem a little bit unhinged

  • April 1, 2012, 6:40 a.m. CST

    If you're looking for "crazy action"...

    by SuperXY

    Then Mad Men is not what you are looking for. It moves at a slow but deliberate pace and takes place in an office. As much as I love GoT, Homeland, and Breaking Bad, I have to admit that Mad Men is really on another level. It's not action. But it's about obsession and Don Draper's fear of being in public while being in the most public job possible. Also it's about Joan's chest.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:55 a.m. CST

    Edmanger

    by KevinMuller

    Mad Men is like a great novel. You have to be patient with it, but it will knock you off your feet when it is good. Try it.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:56 a.m. CST

    Mad Men's ratings suck compared to Walking Dead.

    by jimbojones123

    Cancel that shit! With all the hype of it being a premier, I wouldn't be surprised if it falls below the average of Comic Book Men this week. Easily the most pretentiously boring turd on TV!

  • April 1, 2012, 6:56 a.m. CST

    Haven't started Mad Men either

    by Extr3m1st

    Will be doing so within the next month or so hopefully. Sounds a bit boring though for my tastes. Then again too many people say it is fantastic so not sure what to think. Game of Thrones is awesome, Daenerys and her dragons. Yummy. The Killing, IMO is pretty decent. A bit slow at times but I love the 2 lead characters. The son should be sent away to live with a relative though. And I would love to see more of Rose's secret life in flashbacks. Always thought that girl who plays Rose was adorable.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:57 a.m. CST

    Oh and OUAT is excellent

    by Extr3m1st

    The evil queen is so fucking hot..as is Jennifer Morrison, would love to bang them both.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:59 a.m. CST

    It moves at a slow but deliberate pace...

    by jimbojones123

    In other words it gets off and being boring as hell and viewers praise this? Who's more the fool, the fool or the fool who follows?

  • April 1, 2012, 7:27 a.m. CST

    Mad Men is for adults

    by Mr Lucas

    If you're a child (or simply have the mind of one), then you will not fully understand or appreciate the psychological subtleties of the show. For us adults, it's superbly crafted television. It's like the difference between own-brand blended whisky and a well-aged malt - some will not notice/care, others appreciate the quality.

  • April 1, 2012, 7:44 a.m. CST

    JimboJones123 - Your indignation is misplaced.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    MAD MEN is a compelling drama based on adult themes (i.e. social & political commentary viewed through the prism of commercialism, consumerism, and an ever-changing America). In certain ways, the main character of Don Draper is an Ayn Rand-type; an incredibly gifted but emotionally destructive individual who is trying to make his life on his own terms. It's not a show about 'splosions or people getting whacked. It has consistently delivered its drama through the depth of the characters and the mirror it holds up to our present day society. So, is it worthy of all the praise? Fuck yes, it is.

  • April 1, 2012, 7:52 a.m. CST

    BTW Alcatraz finale

    by Extr3m1st

    Pretty lame ending. No one thinks Rebecca is going to die, she is obviously about to get some silver blood. How she lets her grandfather stab her and get away after all she has already seen him do is just so bogus. And I have the exact answer on why we don't see more revealing shots of her. Even on the damn ER table with just her bra on. It is because her boobs are fucking real. If they were fake, she would be in a bikini top or low cut shirt in practically every single episode. Why? Because girls who get the fake boobs want to show them off and also those boobs are sometimes the reason why they get more work. Sarah on the other hand has real gigantic boobs, and is probably sick of them being the reason she gets more work or attention. She would probably rather be known for her great acting skills instead of those lovely mounds of flesh. If it is just the producers of the show don't want her flashing those giant cans then well the show deserves to be cancelled. It kind of sucks anyway. The reveal at the end of the show was so damn lame.

  • April 1, 2012, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Rename The Killing

    by David Duchovny

    to Redherringville. I hate that fucking show. What a pointless first season.

  • April 1, 2012, 8:23 a.m. CST

    And Herc has forgotten, as usual, House of Lies tonight...

    by Paul Hanlin Jr

    The season finale, and things are gonna go boom, I think, there.

  • April 1, 2012, 8:58 a.m. CST

    The Killing

    by Extr3m1st

    Is pretty entertaining, sure there were a lot of red herrings but still I liked the show. I think the 2nd season will show a big improvement, I have to think the creators heard the negative comments on the show and hopefully they did something about it.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:12 a.m. CST

    I have just found Don to be a shameless DICK!

    by jimbojones123

    Although I have only watched the pilot and the first 40 minutes of this season's opener. I just cannot quite seem to wrap my head around about the purpose of all the men being total pricks.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:36 a.m. CST

    About "Mad Men" ...

    by Toe Jam

    It seems to get knocked a lot -- even by fans -- as occasionally overly slow and deliberate. I really don't see that at all, but maybe it's because I watched the first four seasons on Blu-ray in two- and three-hour sessions. This season will be the first I watch it week-to-week, so maybe this alleged "slowness" will be more apparent then. And to the person above who mentioned all the male characters being total pricks: That's one of the overarching themes of the show. It is called "Mad Men," after all, and not just because they work on Madison Avenue. Quite a few fans maintain that the show is just as much about the women as it is the men, and how that time period became the tipping point in the war of the sexes.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:39 a.m. CST

    What if ...

    by Toe Jam

    This new season of "Game of Thrones" isn't all that great? I think we're all assuming it will be even better than the first season, which would be damn near impossible, and we've seen precipitous drop-offs in quality before [*cough* "The Walking Dead" *cough*]. I am as excited as anyone about this new season, but I'm going to try to temper my expectations through the first few episodes.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:40 a.m. CST

    I get that they are pricks...

    by jimbojones123

    100 hours to push home the point? In the Company of Men did a mighty fine job of doing just that in just over 90 minutes.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:43 a.m. CST

    Game of Thrones moving to CBS!!!

    by aceattorney

    I had to try...

  • April 1, 2012, 9:46 a.m. CST

    The reason people think GoT season 2 will be good is because...

    by Sardonic

    ...the story's main points are already predetermined. They're not just making it up as they go a long. And I disagree that it would be impossible to top the first season. This season may not, simply because book two isn't quite as groundbreaking as the first. But come season 3? It's going to blow people's minds. And the showrunners have proven that they know how to adapt a rather challenging series. There's no reason to assume it's suddenly going to fall off the map out of nowhere. The Walking Dead is not a good comparison, considering all the production fiascoes that went down with it (and the fact that, while the first season was indeed better, it still was nowhere near the level of Thrones, Breaking Bad, etc.). As for Mad Men, I agree that it's probably the best show on television quality-wise, neck and neck with Breaking Bad. But it's absolutely a slow-burn, character driven DRAMA. There's virtually no violence or "action" whatsoever. It's all about the characters. I can understand if someone doesn't like that, but to say that "it sucks" because of it just makes you look ignorant as hell. There's a reason it's so fucking popular with both critics and audiences.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:46 a.m. CST

    The only thing that can ruin GOT is too much sexposition

    by mypalfish

    When it becomes kind of a joke catchphrase and takes you out of the scene, the whole concept has already run it's course. There is so much going on in GOT that nudity for nudity's sake isn't necessary. When does nudity add to a scene? The season finale's final shot with Dany was breathtakingly beautiful. Seeing naked prositute Roz with her gross facial expressions (completely unnatractive)...not so much.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Yeah, Mad Men fell flat last week

    by mypalfish

    As a huge fan of the show, something just didn't click. Not sure if the series has just run it's course, or it was just an "off night," but very little of the two hours held my attention.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Jimbo you're acting as if that's the only theme

    by Monolith_Jones

    And that the characters are made of one trait only. This isnt the case with Mad Men. There is no "villain", the stakes refreshingly aren't life and death. Don Draper may be a prick at times but at others he's very caring. Pete Campbell seemed to be set up as the "villain" but he has a depth that he wouldn't be afforded in other shows. Mad Men is a show for adults who understand that day to day life is hard and tragic enough without shootings, murder and explosions.

  • April 1, 2012, 10:04 a.m. CST

    I love GoT but I spoiled it by reading the book.

    by tangcameo

    I've been rationing it out to one show a week. But I've been reading the book to which they've been pretty faithful. And now every twist and surprise on screen is a bit anti-climactic. I think when it comes to Season 2 I'll watch an episode or two to get the jist of it and read Clash Of Kings instead. When I finish the S1 dvds I'll probably sell them to someone so I can go buy more seasons of The Wire or use it against Treme Season 2.

  • Like clash of kings really begins. On dragonstone, meeting someone new, burning the old ways, embracing the new. in my opinion its a damn shame they aren't opening the season with that. oh well, as long as stannis gets his due throughout the series I'm happy. I too am enamored with his absolute disdain for compromise. Can't wait to see him portrayed.

  • And have one of her boobs out for the entirety of episodes, completely unsexualized, just boob hanging out because its the fashion trend? Personally, I don't. She'll wear a colored, fringe wrap that is more traditional and covers both boobs. We can hope though...

  • That's basically the be-all, end-all of that discussion. The more important of those two statements being what a complete and utter waste of intelligence (of lack thereof) jimbojones clearly is. Its one thing to not be a fan of a show, its another to be so clearly self-involved and petty that you call for its cancellation when clearly scores of intelligent people watch the show passionately every week, which is more than I can say of walking dead, a show whose even its biggest fans admit is pretty fucking terrible most weeks. Wow, a show with zombies and piss poor characterization has better ratings than a subtle, sleek, brilliant period soap opera. Big surprise there dickhead. It's because theres more people (idiots) like you in the world than there should be. deal with it.

  • April 1, 2012, 10:23 a.m. CST

    crow3711, I agree

    by Tim

    I figured they'd start each season with the books prologue like they did with season 1.

  • April 1, 2012, 10:51 a.m. CST

    crow3711, i agree also

    by thewiseman

    The prologue for clash of kings is, imo, the best written chapter in all 5 books. Only disappointment was melisandre not saying "never get involved in a land war in Asia"

  • April 1, 2012, 10:59 a.m. CST

    I wish I could forget about House of Lies

    by mr.underwater

    Granted I've only seen one episode. But, what I saw seemed like it was written by a 22-year-old frat guy. And not a terribly bright or funny frat guy, either.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:11 a.m. CST

    Ultimate Spider-man is a huge step down from Spectacular Spider-man

    by TylerSnow815

    Completely unrelated, but I would very much enjoy an entire episode of GoT featuring Dany in a tokar

  • April 1, 2012, 11:23 a.m. CST

    The reason not everyone masturbates to Mad Men

    by Epsilon

    As amusing as it is to listen to a few people congratulate themselves for being among the select portion of the population brilliant enough to understand the subtleties of Mad Men, not all of us prefer shows like TWD because we aren't smart enough to get MM. Part of the reason I prefer sci-fi shows is that they are a bigger escape from reality. For me, Mad Men isn't a big enough departure from reality. People being greedy, having lots of casual sex and generally being easy to dislike ... I see enough of that in my everyday life

  • April 1, 2012, 11:23 a.m. CST

    What? Tonight's episode doesn't open with Maester Cressen?

    by Dr_PepperSpray

    Bah!..

  • April 1, 2012, 12:02 p.m. CST

    1966 is also the season of the 1st Super Bowl

    by Fred

    Seems like a semi-important date in advertising history.

  • I understand why they did, but I don't think the pros of switching the order around (getting audiences back into the main story before introducing them to new characters/story arcs) outweighs the cons. That scene is incredibly important, character-wise and thematically for the season. The whole background story being told about the changing of faiths and the battles of religions better be portrayed well in the series, or they will be in big trouble by the end. I just think introducing stannous, melisandre, dragonstone, etc in that first scene would have functioned just as wonderfully as the prologue for season 1. Then go back to the main story, then go back to stannous for the final scene of the episode and really get things moving. I don't know. I'm just disappointed. I don't want it to start differently.

  • April 1, 2012, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Also, Someone Was Discussing yesterday

    by Crow3711

    About how during the tourney scene in season 1 they changed the fact that Littlefinger gave the speech about how the hound burned his face insead of having the hound give that speech to sansa directly, like int he books. anyone who has read knows how important and interesting the relationship between hound and sansa becomes later in the books, so i wonder if they are planning on cutting that side-story completely, which is also a huge mistake. that was their first big moment together, and it stands to reason if they removed that they are removing the entire "song bird" storyline, in order to make it easier for them to put little finger and sansa together WAYYY down the road. i see what they are doing, and i understand it....but i don't really like it.

  • April 1, 2012, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Good Call on First Superbowl

    by Crow3711

    I imagine that will definitely be at least mentioned. that is definitely a huge marketing milestone in this country.

  • April 1, 2012, 12:16 p.m. CST

    TV nirvana over the next few months

    by Titus05

    Game of Thrones followed by the final season of Breaking Bad starting in July

  • April 1, 2012, 12:19 p.m. CST

    US Shameless worth a view

    by k88dad

    In addition to GoT and MM, The Killing and the US Shameless are both worthy Sunday viewing. The Killing is a remake of a Danish series, and it was always intended to play out over a two-season arc. Over there, it was simply called The Crime. The leads are fantastic, and the red herrings are realistic (even if they are numerous.) Shameless is, of course, close to a duplicate of the Brit version. I like that they change up enough of the plot lines and characters to keep it interesting for those that have seen the original (which is close to wrapping up its ninth season.)

  • April 1, 2012, 12:33 p.m. CST

    What about "Life's Too Short?"

    by pikagreg

    Cancelled? Tabled? On Hiatus? Whats the status? I just noticed its not on my tivo schedule to record

  • April 1, 2012, 12:36 p.m. CST

    by sanjuro78

    On the commentary for Season 1 they said that even though they changed it to have 'Littlefinger" tell the story of The Hound they stated that they will NOT be removing the story of The Hound and Sansa.

  • April 1, 2012, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Game of Thrones is a great event show.

    by Randy

    I love watching it every week with others and spending the week talking about it. Good times.

  • April 1, 2012, 12:45 p.m. CST

    mr lucas

    by torontoxic

    Mad Men is for pseudo intellectual twits who think it's complicated and not at all tired, boring, predictable, and written for adults who really want everyone to know they're grown ups now. <P> It's shit. It's the most over rated TV show I can think of. Ever. <P> GOT is awesome entertainment. The Killing is very well done too. Either one is light years ahead of the shit that is Mad Men. Mad Men is worse than True Blood.

  • April 1, 2012, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Maester Cressen...

    by Mattman

    Can't hold his wine.

  • April 1, 2012, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Mad Men is cool... but

    by Mattman

    Not my favorite show. That honor goes to Thrones, with Boardwalk Empire in close second, followed by Spartacus.

  • Usually Superbowl is in Febuary. They should mention the Apollo space program tho

  • I'm happy they are both on . . . long wait for more Walking Dead

  • April 1, 2012, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Re: Sansa and The Hound at the tourney

    by Turingtestee

    Maybe the actor portraying The Hound didn't quite have the chops to pull off that scene?

  • April 1, 2012, 1:14 p.m. CST

    The title "Tea Leaves" makes me think "weed episode"

    by PotSmokinAlien

    Maybe we get to see Ken recite some of his poems this week.

  • April 1, 2012, 1:24 p.m. CST

    MadMen...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...isn't my favorite show currently in production. Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones would share that honor, with Breaking Bad probably being the objectively better show and Game of Thrones being more specifically for me. Justified sits in front of Mad Men for me too, because Justified is the biggest, best bag of popcorn television to be produced in a while. However... ...Mad Men is extraordinary television and you do yourself a disservice if you choose not to watch it. Mad Men is not slow. It is deliberate and that is certainly not always a bad thing. The Don Draper character, who I often despise, has been peeled layer by layer, season by season, until he has been revealed as one of the most complex, completely rendered characters in television history. The fact that his most enduring, successful relationships with women have been with two who clearly (but not obviously or completely, which is part of the joy of the show) serve as surrogate mothers instead of lovers or wives is just one of the subtle joys the show offers. Mad Men is not an ensemble show, though it often masquerades as one. It is the story of one of America's great transitions, seen through the prism of a single man who could have stepped, completely formed, from an F Scott Fitzgerald novel. As for the season opener, I wasn't overly pleased either. I like Lane and I'm not sanguine with where his story seems to be headed. On the other hand I'm hoping Don's new wife is not unstable but is instead a manipulator of a skill and ambition Don has not yet encountered. It would be an interesting next step in the evolution of the show's world view.

  • April 1, 2012, 1:26 p.m. CST

    turingtestee, he has the chops...

    by Clabog592

    Here is Rory McCann's (The Hound) audition tape for the show. Its the scene where he tells the story to Sansa. http://tinyurl.com/chgmdus After seeing this I'm even more bummed he didn't get to have this scene in the show...

  • April 1, 2012, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Mad Men

    by maxwell's hammer

    If Mad Men isn't your thing, that's fine. But to put it down for being boring while praising Game of Thrones or Boardwalk Empire (which are both fine shows in their own right) sounds to many Mad Men fans, like a child saying they'd rather play with their G.I. Joes than go on a date with a girl because girls are gross. Differences in taste are fine, and when such is the case, I'd never invoke the 'You Just Don't Get It' rebuttal. But some of you complainers do rather come off like you're willfully misunderstanding the show.

  • April 1, 2012, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Crow3711...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I agree with you that it would have been great to see the destruction of the statues as the first scene of the season. I would have also been happy with it being the last scene of this first episode to give it the weight it deserves in relation to the coming season(s). I didn't have the same reaction to Littlefinger telling Sansa the story, though. I thought it provided a strong hint that the relationship between Sansa and the Hound would be shown and that the storytelling was given to Littlefinger for the sake of economies of time and character. I would point to the scene were Sansa is forced to look at a specific head as a reason to give you some hope that I'm right. Hope I am, at any rate.

  • April 1, 2012, 1:35 p.m. CST

    I'm Honestly Not Usually So Snobby...

    by Crow3711

    But i really think anyone who doesn't see the virtues in mad men, aside from actually liking it (that's a taste issue), but anyone who says its crap, or bad, or boring, is just a fool in my opinion. I don't think they are most likely a very intelligent person. I don't like plenty of things, but that doesn't mean that I think it's unadulterated boring crap that I can proclaim to be highly over rated. That is the mark of a tried and true idiot. It's just a fact. I'm not saying critics or fans are unfallible, and as I said, its always taste whether you LIKE something, but when a show wins best drama four years running, is EVERY critics pic for best show, and had a fierce and dedicated legion of fans....well, you can see why id think you're a close minded imbecile. You're just being a stupid douche. It's a great, great piece of television and true work of art. Mad Men is art. Plain and simple. Don't like it, fine. But don't call it crap, morons.

  • April 1, 2012, 1:40 p.m. CST

    Crow3711...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...couldn't agree more. I recently watched the first season of Damages on Netflix. It was well made, well acted, clearly quality television made at a very high level. I watched the first season and found I had no interest at all in watching more. Not a bad show. Just not for me.

  • It couldn't be at all that we love the show because of it is artful, entertaining and thought-provoking, could it? No, it's that it makes us feel smart at the water cooler on Monday. Because we pseudo-intellectuals gather the next day to discuss all the subtle brilliance of "Mad Men" and pat one another on the back. I can't help but think the detractors who make blanket statements about "Mad Men" viewers being pretentious agreed wholeheartedly with Santorum's "Obama wants everyone to go to college ... What a snob!" comment.

  • April 1, 2012, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Had The same Experien with Damages Myself Redned

    by Crow3711

    Thats kind of funny. Watched, enjoyed, appreciated, have developed a crush on rose byrne, but not continuing. Just not for me.

  • alas though it's shallow and empty, just like they are, like wine sipping douches at an art gallery who try to explain the high minded themes of abstract art like they know what they're talking about. then all holier than thou they condescend towards genre fans saying they are children for liking GOT.

  • April 1, 2012, 2:10 p.m. CST

    Crow: I haven't seen the episode obviously, but I completely agree.

    by Dr_PepperSpray

    By changing the order, it seems like they'd also change the weight of the drama. Without the Maester Cressen prologue you lose the theme of the season. <P> Then again, I might be surprised. Also no word about Arya plot in this episode?

  • April 1, 2012, 2:18 p.m. CST

    creepythinretard loves Mad Men

    by torontoxic

    That alone should convince anyone how basic and bland it is. Intelligent? Ya...it's a regular fucking rubix cube of social criticism. lol

  • April 1, 2012, 2:19 p.m. CST

    Mad Men and The Killing

    by Lucky13

    While I enjoy Mad Men, I believe it hangs on the charisma of Jon Hamm, and to a lesser extent, the rest of the main cast. Jon Hamm is cool --- Kind of actor that you know the girls love, but it doesn't bother you cause he doesn't look like an obnoxious fuck-face like an Ashton Kutcher. The prototypical 'guy you could have a beer with'. The stories themselves got a bit dull the season in which they changed their offices to that horrible '60's look. It's Don and the gang that keep me going back... that, and the fact its a show my wife likes, and I can watch without wanted to slam my head in a door. The Killing --- Someone above said it best --- It's a shitty broadcast show dressed up as a decent cable series. Someone else mentioned "Redherringville" -- dead on. They lost me on that late-season episode that was spent searching for the main chic's missing son.... just a complete filler of an episode on a level that I've never before seen. Then of course, was the 'fuck you' of a season finale. I'll be back to watch season 2 though, just because there's not much else on. Also --- why am I the only one who hates the Holder character? The meth-head/wigger detective? LOL. Give me a break. Game of Thrones --- fucking awesome show. Can't wait for season 2 to start up. Missing Sean Bean is gonna be tough though. Oh well, at least we still have The Dinklage.

  • It's true. I routinely put hours upon hours into watching a TV series that, deep down, I utterly despise, only because "it makes me feel sophisticated". And you people wonder why Mad Men fans think the haters are idiots?

  • April 1, 2012, 2:40 p.m. CST

    Fuck the Killing...It's Dead to Me...

    by ElPalabraUltimo

    You know, I watched the first season with an open mind. I was bored 50% of the time (any of the shit with Michelle Forbes and family grieving...look, we know sadness sucks, but if it doesn't actually advance the plot it's not character development, it's dead fucking space) and I was hopeful 50% of the the time that it would vindicate itself in the end. I liked the male cop, the weed smoking dude, thought he added a nice edge, but really, the whole thing was pretty meh with a 25% chance of evening greatness (to use a weather forecast metaphor). Well, that 25% chance didn't pan out in the end, the whole thing was bullshit. No solution, a lot of red herrings and vamping and I'm done with that bullshit. Too many shows try to milk a fairly limited plot to death, and I'm sick of it. Fuck you Sud, fuck all of you bullshit artists. The Killing is killed in this dojo. It's fucking dead to me, and I will not even glance at the second season. Not even a glance.

  • April 1, 2012, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Am I the only one who likes Thrones AND Mad Men?

    by Mattman

    Why is everything so black and white with you people?

  • April 1, 2012, 2:50 p.m. CST

    I dig Holder

    by Turingtestee

    His 'criminality' is a red herring though.

  • April 1, 2012, 3:01 p.m. CST

    Re: Maester Cressen, general book changes

    by Kammich

    The prologue is a perfect, punctual opening for "Clash of Kings" and I'm surprised they changed how/when it will play out on the show. You have to assume that Martin has a very distinct reason for writing each prologue the way he does. Benioff and Weiss seem to be ignoring that, which is kind of a shame. THAT SAID... Benioff and Weiss have hit home runs on every single episode thus far, so they have my full confidence. Stuff like the Littlefinger story switch doesn't bother me, because I think they knew they had a good thing on their hands with Aiden Gillen. The story still got told, it was just out of a different mouth. The thing that has me a liiitle suspicious is that they are opening the door to work entirely outside of the confines of the POV-chapter structure of the books. For instance, we're meeting Jeyne Westerling in season 2, and seeing exactly how her and Robb met and fell in love? That is dangerous territory to be treading; anytime you're going completely off the reservation of what Martin has written and begin to kind of "make it up as you go," you open yourself up to a LOT of potential criticism.

  • well, let me tell you this: the original The Killing (Forbrydelsen) is a fantastic show. It's extremely good. very, very good. fantastic. one of the top best Tv shows i ever seen in my life. completly captivating. it's mesmerizing. i saw some of the american version and it's so below the original. its quite a very poor man's version. borders on pathetic, even.

  • April 1, 2012, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Mattman, no sir you are not

    by theGoldbergV

    I really enjoyed GoT season 1, but having not read the books it hasn't quite cracked my top 5 shows yet, mainly because I've only experienced 10 hours of it and season 1 felt a bit like an extended prologue. It certainly qualifies as "event" television though, and I'm very much looking forward to new episodes. But Mad Men is simply astounding. Not since The Wire have I been so engrossed in something whilst watching. Whoever likened it to a novel is absolutely right, each season (each episode, in fact) builds on the previous ones to make it all the more rewarding. I don't understand the criticism of last week's opener either, for me it was one of their very best episodes. And laserhead - The Killing is a very, very stupid network show dressed up like a sophisticated cable show - why that might be the best description of that show I've ever seen. I quit half way through season 1. I hear the Danish version is way better

  • it also helped kickstart the UK fascination with scadinavian crime mysteries, of which WALLENDER, both the UK produced and the original swedish TV show, are it's most notorious example.

  • what a fantastic actor. this guy owns the show. i heard he's not the head actor in the credits, the first name in the credits, like Sean Bean was in first season. i just hope that sucess and accolades don't go to his head and ruin what seems to be a genuinely great guy, and drawns him in ego.

  • April 1, 2012, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Mattman...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...there's barely a person in the talkback who has expressed a favorable opinion of Mad Men and not also expressed a favorable opinion of Game of Thrones. If I had to choose one of the two it would be Game of Thrones. Fortunately I do not. Haven't decided whether or not I'll give The Killing a second chance. I sort of hated the first season but I haven't taken it off the list of shows I'm recording. Sure won't be watching it tonight though.

  • April 1, 2012, 3:22 p.m. CST

    Who Killed Rosie Larson?

    by Titus05

    The Killing is a very good show haters...not Game of Thrones great but good nonetheless...all you ADD personalities who don't have the patience to wait until the end of Season 2 for the reveal have no business watching this show if you want a cookie cutter murder mystery show then watch Law & Order or CSI

  • April 1, 2012, 3:22 p.m. CST

    I've noticed a trend with the Mad Men haters

    by Mattman

    The derogatory use of the word "sophisticated". Clearly, sophistication offends them.

  • April 1, 2012, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Red Ned Lynch

    by Mattman

    Good to hear. I'm curious about The Killing now, but sounds like a difficult first season.

  • Actually the first Super Bowl was January 15, 1967. It's only been in February on a regular basis since 2004.

  • April 1, 2012, 3:27 p.m. CST

    mattman

    by David Duchovny

    I'm with you. I love them both. I think Breaking Bad trumps them both tho.

  • April 1, 2012, 3:32 p.m. CST

    rick-santorum-ate-my-baby

    by Mattman

    I'm gearing up to watch Breaking Bad soon. I have too many shows at the moment, but I'll get to it. Great username btw. Sorry for your loss.

  • April 1, 2012, 3:35 p.m. CST

    All your asses are belong to The Dinklage.

    by AsimovLives

  • April 1, 2012, 3:37 p.m. CST

    Dinklage gets top billing this year, apparently

    by Mattman

    That's only just.

  • no, you do not need the books to love the show or follow the plot. i'm proof enough of that.

  • I have read them multiple times, but I'm a freak. I think the show works wonderfully on its own, for those with an attention span. You might not get everything on the first viewing, as it's a lot to take in, but it rewards repeated watches. And if you REALLY want to appreciate the Thrones universe, check out the Complete Guide To Westeros on the blu-rays.

  • April 1, 2012, 3:48 p.m. CST

    Mattman, I love both GoT and Mad Men.

    by Tim

    Two of the best

  • April 1, 2012, 3:51 p.m. CST

    The haters of Mad Men are just comical.

    by Tim

    I said it last week, I watch the show because it's entertaining. It has great writing, great acting, great storytelling, and the look of the show is fantastic. "It's boring, people just watch to feel smart" sounds like something I'd say when I was a 16 year old contrarian.

  • April 1, 2012, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Mad Men sounds like my kind of show.

    by AsimovLives

    the good show knd.

  • April 1, 2012, 4:23 p.m. CST

    Mad Men is shit...

    by Dkev00

    and should never be mentioned in the same sentence as Game of Thrones. Ever!

  • April 1, 2012, 4:31 p.m. CST

    So wait, SCORES of intellectual people watch Mad Men????

    by jimbojones123

    At least 40? Whoa! Nucking Futs!

  • April 1, 2012, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Asimovlives...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I don't know that you need to read the books. But the books are worth reading. And there is a Portuguese language edition if you're not comfortable reading a million plus words (to this point) in English.

  • April 1, 2012, 4:58 p.m. CST

    herc

    by JaredP

    yes, i did think meg would fall to her death last week. maybe others thought the same or maybe you and i are just morbid fucks? too much game of thrones and boarwalk empire, for us, perhaps?

  • This is exactly what I'm talking about. You, sir, are an idiot. Pure and simple. Feel free to not LIKE mad men. Also, of course, feel free to act the way you do, but I'll be inclined to consider you a fucking retarded person.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Kind of sad of the GOT love by morons...

    by Andrew Coleman

    A lot of really stupid fucking people like GOT. Makes me question why I like it. Watched the first season and found it very predictable. Went on to read the books and it helped me like the first season a lot more. The books are really good. I know we live in a "why should I read?" society but still check them out. Problem is the show has gained a... Dip shit type fan base. Those who just enjoy the violence of it. Oh well as long as people promote good television I guess. When it comes to Mad Men haters they are all the same. In this case when someone claims they find Mad Men boring it is simply because they are stupid or 16 years old. That's it. You can not like it... That's different. But to claim that show is "shit" or "boring" means you're an idiot or trying to be trendy by disliking it and that's it.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Mad Men is overrated by shallow psuedo-intellectuals

    by WINONA_RYDERS_PUSSY_JUICE

    On the surface it's a supremely crafted, SOPHISTICATED, adult drama. But it's really just an average television show with high production values and good acting.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:10 p.m. CST

    I AM NOT A MAD MEN HATER, I JUST THINK...

    by JaredP

    breaking bad game of thrones and boardwalk empire are better

  • April 1, 2012, 5:12 p.m. CST

    dkev00 = STUPID CUNT

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    This must be your first week at AICN. Nice fail.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:14 p.m. CST

    i love mad men, got and killing

    by jsfithaca

    in that order. and i agree breaking bad trumps them all. i actually enjoy the red herrings in the killing. the frustration makes me more involved in the show and with who really killed rosie larson. another full season of this might be excessive but i have enjoyed it so far. however got and mad men are definently way better

  • I corrected that for you, Pussy.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Red Ned Lynch!

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Good to see you, sir.

  • The way Ted and Gus went out seemed discordant to the deadly serious tone played all season.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:19 p.m. CST

    The Killing can kiss my ass!

    by FrodoFraggins

  • April 1, 2012, 5:20 p.m. CST

    myphdisdoom, agree about the shows fanbase

    by Crow3711

    The scariest thing of all is that literally 90% of the people I talk to in real life who say they love the show don't even know the names of any of the characters by the end of the first season. They're super pumped for season 2, and yet they still describe everyone as, "the midget" "the blonde girl" "the barbarians" "the handsome blonde guy" "the handsome bastard" and so on and on. They're all much, much too stupid for the show. I hope it isn't dumbed down. This shit is going to get a hell of a lot more complicated, the books are hard enough. Wait until everyone realizes that the show isn't about the starks vs the lannisters and that nothing that they expect to happen does happen and that daenarys is still stuck halfway around the world with baby dragons for the next four seasons. we'll see how many of them stick with it.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:25 p.m. CST

    Hey Mr. Nice Gaius...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...fancy seeing you here. Well met, sir.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:33 p.m. CST

    @AsimovLives - The challenge of translating GOT

    by Knuckleface

    Hi AL. I love the series too, and I watched the first season before I read the books. The first book of Song of Ice and Fire was pretty straight forward and it was easy enough to translate to television. However, the books to come are a lot more difficult to translate. It remains to be seen how well the series will translate the complexities of the remaining novels. The story gets bigger and bigger, there are a TON of characters that haven't even been introduced in the series as yet. And there were a lot of minor characters that probably didn't even register for you during season 1 who will emerge as major characters in upcoming seasons. Do you remember Beric Dondarrion? Stanis Baratheon? Barristan Selmy? Walder Frey? Hodor? Princess Myrcella or Prince Tommen? Magister Illyrio? Do you even know who Rickon Stark is? Unless you studied the episodes over and over again, you probably don't know most of these characters. And most of the principal characters that you are already familiar with will go off on their own tangents, and those tangents will last for several seasons if the chronology of the books are followed. Some of you favourites might not even see any resolution in their personal narratives. The 'fantasy' aspects play an increasing role in the story telling as well. People who think the show is 'Sopranos with Swords' are going to have a rude awakening when the Snarks and the Grumpkins start to stir. Religion plays an increasingly important role in the stories as well, and suffice to say, the Gods of GoT are nothing like the religions we are familiar with. This is the challenge the screenwriters face going forward. How do you keep people tuning in every week to a story that gets more and more labyrinthine as it goes along. Indeed, even those of us who have read the books are still trying to make sense of it all and grasp where exactly this story is taking us.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Season 2 of Avengers - About time!

    by WerePlatypus

    Awesome. The first season is on Netflix, and it's pretty damn good. They took alot of the classic Marvel story lines and meshed them in a pretty cool way. I was a Marvel geek growing up, and this satisfies me in a way that the recent movies still can't.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:35 p.m. CST

    I think my favorite episodes were the Kang 3-parter.

    by WerePlatypus

  • ...and too cold to hold. Watching these shows doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. I also don't understand why posters who don't like a particular show feel the need to berate those that do. You don't like something, we get it. Stop watching, move along and put your energy into doing something useful. And Mad Men isn't slow. It's a show that doesn't have explosions and epic killings. It's a drama about people who work in an office during a time of great change. And it moves forward every week. The plot moves are there just as they are on every other show. They're just not as loud, because explosions and epic killings don't happen in a day-to-day office. You don't have to be sophisticated to watch Mad Men. I'm not, I introduced Whitney to crack and helped her spoon her asshole. But I like Mad Men, and enjoy watching the many happenings within.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:44 p.m. CST

    red ned lynch

    by AsimovLives

    i make a point in reading any original english language literature in it's original language. contrary to what the grammar of my post might indicate, i'm very familiar and fluent with the english language. as for the SONG OF ICE AND FIRE novels, in due time. i'm so into the TV show i don't want to be spoiled by reading the novels.

  • high production values and good acting alone would make for something more then just an average show.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:48 p.m. CST

    turingtestee, you mean Coen as in the brothers Coen?

    by AsimovLives

    yes they are jew but their name is Coen not Cohen.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:50 p.m. CST

    Herc, yes I was waiting for Megan to take a dive.

    by Mel_Gibsons_Nazi_Dad

    She seems a little unstable, I predict she offs herself by the end of the this season.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:52 p.m. CST

    knuckleface

    by AsimovLives

    sounds cool to me. i say bring it all on. and if the show writers can do at least half of it justice, it will be agreat accomplishment in itself. and from what i have seen so far, i don't think i'll be disapointed.

  • the rest was all icing of the cake. the rest was all bonus.

  • April 1, 2012, 5:54 p.m. CST

    Allright. I like Mad Men...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...and I will not claim that I am the smartest person in this talkback, the most literate, educated, sophisticated or erudite. I will however claim that I love more bad movies, terrible books and wretched music than anyone else here. I like Kingdom of the Spiders. And not ironically. I like Alex Cox movies, not the good ones like Sid and Nancy and Repo Man but Walker and Straight to Hell and Revenger's Tragedy. Straight to Hell is one of my favorite movies. I own all the Zombi movies, all the Blind Dead movies and yes, even the first three Trancers. I've watched The Sword and the Sorcerer, Beastmaster and The Warrior and the Sorceress all in the same night. More than once. I like The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean more than Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, the Illusionist more than the Prestige. I've watched Mad Dog Time more than once and Drive Angry was one of my top ten movies of last year. I've made a point of collecting the novels of Guy Smith, John Russo and William Johnstone. I have a playlist on my mp3 player entirely composed of the worst, most idiosyncratic examples of seventies gold. Not just Wildfire and Seasons in the Sun and Billy Don't Be A Hero but the obscure and even worse ones like Una Paloma Blanca and The Last Farewell. I know the lyrics to most of them. My screen name for this site is taken from the character Robert Shaw played in the movie Swashbuckler, which, if you'd like to check an on-line resource, you will find to be considered a pretty wretchedly stupid film. It's one of my very favorite movies. I like Mad Men. I guess I must want people to think I've got super sophisticated, perfect taste or something.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:03 p.m. CST

    asimovlives...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I've read some Dumas in French, too, but I sure wouldn't want to try to read something as long as these books. On the other hand, in spite of what you said about yourself, your English is about a hundred times better than my mastery of any language other than my own. The Illusionist? Well, I would never be so dishonest as to argue against the physical attributes of Jessica Biel but I really just liked it more. I felt emotionally moved by The Illusionist in ways I wasn't by The Prestige. I was more invested in the characters. And no, I'm not some Nolan hater. I liked The Prestige. I just liked The Illusionist more.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:04 p.m. CST

    Jessica biels assssss gif

    by Extr3m1st

    http://coedmagazine.com/2010/11/12/jessica-biel-animated-gifs-15-gifs/6f224f7293c5/#14

  • April 1, 2012, 6:12 p.m. CST

    Best shows on Sunday: American Dad, Cleveland

    by KelVarnson

    Show, Family Guy, Avengers, East Bound and Down when it's back next week. Spectacular Spiderman was a terrific show, so Ultimate has it's work cut out for it. Hope Iron Fist is cool. Really enjoyed the Killing last year, but I'm not sure I'm going to follow it anymore. These two episodes tonight will probably determine it for me. I would have preferred a one season long case.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:14 p.m. CST

    myphdisdoom, you found GoT predictable???

    by Tim

    That's one word I've never heard used to describe the show or book. Unless you stopped watching after 8 episodes and think Ned ended up at the wall with Jon and Dany and Drogo invaded Westeros.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:20 p.m. CST

    red ned lynch

    by AsimovLives

    the illusionits is ok. but the prestige blew my mind. and it has david bowie playing nikola tesla. two mega awesome for the price of one. how can you bet that?

  • April 1, 2012, 6:22 p.m. CST

    I liked The Illusionist more as well

    by dukeroberts

    I didn't know much about it before I saw it. I was surprised by how much I liked it. The Prestige was one that I counted down the days to see, and then I saw it on my birthday, and it was good, but kind of underwhelming. That was probably my fault though. I did recently buy the Blu-ray of it at Target. It was only $7.99 so I plunked down the dough for it. I still think it's pretty good and unfortunately, I don't own The Illusionist. To be fair, The Illusionist does have Biel, but The Prestige has Scarlett and Piper Perabo, though much too briefly.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:23 p.m. CST

    Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon

    by dukeroberts

    It was terrible. Avoid that shit if you can. I will not watch it again.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:24 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Interesting that you chose to address me instead of paying closer attention to what is going on over in the SPARTACUS thread. In case you weren't aware, Jay2517 is the epitome of every uber-conservative American that you've ever flamed on AICN. I'm surprised that you managed to keep your Orci-Rage in check with that troll.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:26 p.m. CST

    the thing i find most funny about the plot of GAME OF THRONES....

    by AsimovLives

    ... is that there is a bunch of self-absorved power-hungry assholes who are sending a whole continent to war for the pettiest of reasons. meanwhile a huge threat is bromming on the horizont in the north, a menace that can literally be th death of everybody and the destruction of it all, and yet nobody is paying attention. the little stupid ants are kiling each other not realizing the mother of all ant-eaters is about to fall upon them all. you could say the epic saga is about human stupidity and how even the smartest of men are dragged down to it.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:28 p.m. CST

    mr. nice gaius

    by AsimovLives

    i adressed you in conversation because i wanted to talk with a rational person. that fella you mentioned, he's not worth the bother. those types are far gone.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:36 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives - Agreed.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    When it comes to AICN's Top 10 Cunts List, Jay-bell is making a quick move for the #1 spot.

  • April 1, 2012, 6:43 p.m. CST

    Torrent for Avengers anyone? Not seeing it on Demonoid

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    Just stupid Spiderman

  • April 1, 2012, 6:44 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...like I said I'm not knocking The Prestige, though I must admit my favorite fictional version of Tesla appeared in an old ZBS radio program called The Adventures of Ruby. But like a lot of Nolan films (though certainly not all) The Prestige engaged me on primarily an intellectual level. The Illusionist drew me into its love story and the dilemma faced by Paul Giamatti, playing one of the best transitional characters since Claude Rains told his men to round up the usual suspects. It engaged me emotionally in a way that's stuck with me. So for me it wins.

  • April 1, 2012, 7:09 p.m. CST

    @asimovlives

    by Patrick

    The reason no one is paying attention to the northern threat is simply that no one believes this threat actually exists. Even one of the strongest supporters of the Night's Watch, Ned Stark, did not believe a brother's assertion that the "Others"/"White Walkers" have returned to existence. If an elder Stark found this information inconceivable, you can be sure that anyone further South will find find it difficult to see any truth in these claims. Sadly, the Night's Watch are on their own for the foreseeable future.

  • April 1, 2012, 7:10 p.m. CST

    Doom was perfect on Avengers

    by TylerSnow815

    I'd also mention the hilarious Hulk and Thing rivalry. Too bad about Ultimate Spider-man. Fucking terrible. As for Game of Thrones, should be lots of cool shit this season, but I look foraward to A.S.o.S.' The Lightnig Lord vs The Hound more than anything

  • April 1, 2012, 7:11 p.m. CST

    I don't know what all the bitching is about

    by Truxton Spangler

    just typical AICN, I guess. But I do wish Herc wouldn't incite the politicial BS (save it for talk-radio--this is an entertainment forum), though, and the lunatic rantings of a couple disturbed individuals can sometimes be overwhelming. Sunday night is one of the best nights of the week for TV. Something for everyone, and even better if one's tastes encompasses it all. Despite feeling somewhat betrayed (like most; and it's not due to ADD, so stop being a simpleton), the Killing is still on my list...but on a short leash. I'd like to own the chopper company that this does the countless aerial shots. Mad Men. I watched most of the first season, then stopped because it didn't seem to be going anywhere. For some reason, picked it up again and caught up. It's not for everyone, but it's an extremely well-crafted show. GoT. Not usually interested in genre, but may pick it up later. House of Lies. Almost dropped it after the first few, but it's gotten better, and less like a "frat boy" fantasy. Cheadle is good. Shameless. I like shows that push the boundaries, and combined with some good acting, it gets a spot on the list.

  • April 1, 2012, 7:26 p.m. CST

    Mad Men is probably a good show

    by Itchy

    ... but I really have no time for new shows. I'm too busy watching GoT and Shameless. I'd rather watch good shows that feature lots of hot chicks with their clothes off and people beheading horses in graphic, murderous rages.

  • April 1, 2012, 7:29 p.m. CST

    lao_hu

    by AsimovLives

    but the point of the north wall is that the threat was always there. merely the northlings wouldn't be reason enough for the wall. that wall is cyclopian in it's gigantism. and least we forget, the stark's own motto is WINTER IS COMING. besically, the world of Westeros as we see in the Tv show and in the boks i guess, is a world turned stupid, where people become stupid through complacency and egotism. and that stupidity, i guess, will bite them in the ass.

  • April 1, 2012, 7:36 p.m. CST

    Itchy

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    If that's what you're looking for, then you should be watching SPARTACUS. No fucking excuses!

  • April 1, 2012, 7:41 p.m. CST

    asimov

    by fain88

    It's not that the people of Westeros deny there was once a need for the Wall and that the White Walkers existed...it's just it's been so long ago they've passed beyond the point of stuff of legend--maybe a better way to put it is "extinction". Same with dragons--they know they existed, they just don't think they do anymore. So even when a Lord Commander cries "White Walker", it's a bit like someone in the here-and-now claiming dinosaurs have returned. Preposterous. Unless you talk to Prof. Hammond. But that's another story.

  • April 1, 2012, 7:42 p.m. CST

    Westerosi stupidity..

    by Patrick

    Yes, I am in agreement with you there. These people have not witnessed a "real" winter in probably a century or two, and the imminent winter will bring back baddies that have been asleep for thousands of years. So everyone alive at this point in time (except the few who read history books - essentially just maesters) have no idea what is in store in the coming months.

  • April 1, 2012, 8 p.m. CST

    jaredp

    by Hercules

    Mad Men has its own penchant for sudden game-changing left-turn plot twists, most memorably the incident with the lawnmower and the fate of Miss Blankenship.

  • April 1, 2012, 8 p.m. CST

    But think of how much time has passed...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...what warning from a thousand years ago would we heed today? Or...and please...I don't want this to go political...I intend it purely as a hypothetical.... Climate change. Our modern day wise men are more united in opinion on this danger than they have been on anything in my lifetime. And yet in America we squabble over birth control and issues of race and class while in China nothing matters so much as building the strength of their currency and Europe wriggles in the throes of wrong-headed and failing austerity programs. And of course no one (except Brazil, perhaps) wants to redirect their resources and create the economic and social upheaval that addressing the potential doom would demand. And why should they, when others aren't? They would be placing themselves at a disadvantage and for only a hypothetical reward. At this point in the tale no one has seen Venice or New Orleans slip permanently beneath the waves like a modern day Lyonesse. And at this point in the GOT tale no one in King's Landing has seen the white walkers moving like shadows through the trees, their blue eyes glimmering like frozen death. Sufficient unto the day the evil thereof. Maybe it's not smart but it's us. Now I've made myself sad and it's time for Game of Thrones to start its new season.

  • April 1, 2012, 8:06 p.m. CST

    mattman

    by David Duchovny

    :-)

  • April 1, 2012, 8:27 p.m. CST

    A person can honestly enjoy the hell out of Kingdom of the Spiders

    by David Duchovny

    and Plan 9 from Outer Space just as much as they enjoy 2001 or Mean Streets. Two of these movies are shit though, and whether one recognizes that or not is what makes a good poster on here. I love me some really bad movies--but I know the difference. Some on here don't--and they should be called out as fucking morons at the top of our lungs.

  • April 1, 2012, 8:29 p.m. CST

    I saw Avengers and Spiderman at Wondercon

    by room23storeblogspotcom

    Thought that the Avengers episode was awesome, great stuff with Fantastic Four and with Doom. The best part though was the Thing and Hulk's fighting. Ultimate Spiderman was interesting, it reminded me a lot of Teen Titans. Serious at times, but then a good amount of strange anime humor.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Oh, Betty...

    by Voice O. Reason

    I'm trying to decide if Betty's fatsuit looks as fake as Peggy's old one.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:16 p.m. CST

    Doom and FF4

    by WerePlatypus

    That's what makes the Avengers cartoon so good. It has scope.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:23 p.m. CST

    House of Lies

    by weati

    What a train-wreck this show turned out to be. Not a likeable character on the show. The show doesn't know whether it's a comedy or a serious drama. Showtime should put this turd out of its misery.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:25 p.m. CST

    I'm actually a little impressed with Betty's fat suit.

    by FluffyUnbound

    The transition to the body model when she got out of the tub was a little awkward and poorly done, but other than that I'm buying her as a fat chick.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:25 p.m. CST

    At least we finally know that Henry Francis took that job

    by Voice O. Reason

    ...with John Lindsay. Not that anyone but me was wondering...

  • April 1, 2012, 9:42 p.m. CST

    Tradewinds

    by genesis495

    Was that a Styx reference?

  • April 1, 2012, 9:53 p.m. CST

    Romney's a clown!

    by paulloch

    lol VERY CLEVER, history repeating itself.

  • April 1, 2012, 9:54 p.m. CST

    Come on MNG nobdy can beat out the asimovlives as AICN #1 Cunt

    by Xiphos_2

    It's all that sad, lonely, stupid goatfucker has don't take it away from the sorry ass motherfucker.

  • April 1, 2012, 10 p.m. CST

    thanks herc

    by JaredP

    almost forgot about the lawnmower bit from season 3. and also, miss blankenship got off easy compared to walter whites victims like gus, who suddenly turned into two-face at the end of season 4. then there's poor jimmy darmody who got a bullet in the face from his own surrogate father, nucky. i want even mention the numerous deaths that game of thrones has bestowed upon us

  • April 1, 2012, 10:03 p.m. CST

    About sansa and the hound...

    by Chest_Rockwell

    Yeah, they won't kill that storyline later. You see the beginnings of it in the last episode of S1 and a bit of it in the first ep of S2. In s1, there's the scene where he stops her from pushing jeoffry off the ledge, and gives her his cloth to wipe her blood off, after Merryn slaps her. Then in tonights ep, he sort of bails her out with jeoffry again. They are setting it up...

  • April 1, 2012, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Xiphos!

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Ha! Well, I did say that Jay2517 was making a move for the spot. So, he may/may not be there just yet. (The site should collectively take a vote on the current cunt roster to see where it stands these days...) Hope all has been well. How are the lads from Chang?

  • April 1, 2012, 10:19 p.m. CST

    They Fucked Up Not Starting With Stannis

    by Crow3711

    And they didn't even deliver anything good for the first scene of the season anyway. Switch those two around in order and the first scene is memorable and that scene plays just as well. Stupid

  • April 1, 2012, 10:32 p.m. CST

    Anyone also following "The Killin"

    by tritium

  • April 1, 2012, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Anyone also following "The Killing"?

    by tritium

    I watched the first season, and was dissapointed (as were many) with the ending. I did like this 2nd season premiere...although, I can see this turning into a massive "conspiracy theory" cluster-fuck. I guess the quality of the lead actors keep pulling me back in (Joel Kinnaman, Mireille Enos, Billy Campbell). Heck, even the Eric Ladin showed some stuff tonight.

  • April 1, 2012, 10:44 p.m. CST

    crow3711...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I agree. It's clear they felt the need to catch up the viewers on all the characters they were familiar with before introducing Stannis, but the scene on the beach, if followed immediately by the scene in which the letter is being written, would have served the same structural purpose while providing a much stronger opening. But I'm still inordinately pleased with the episode.

  • April 1, 2012, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Because of such friendly recommendations from here....

    by jimbojones123

    I gave Mad Men a third shot. The characters were actually likable beyond the plain Jane that works at the office. Don was pretty stand up and tried to encourage others to be better. Something I hadn't seen at all before watching. I am willing to give it another stab.

  • April 1, 2012, 10:50 p.m. CST

    average television show with high production values and good acting

    by WINONA_RYDERS_PUSSY_JUICE

    It's like John Carter. The Mad Men cult is just like the dellusional nerds who think John Carter is a good science fiction movie.

  • April 1, 2012, 10:53 p.m. CST

    The Killing is dead to me

    by Volstaff

    Dead,dead,dead!It started off so great last year, then just seemed to run out of gas about half way through.Then the shitty season ender killed totally left me feeling cheated.I didn't think any show could piss me off more than the season one ender of Heroes, but The Killing did it. Be interesting to see how many people bothered to watch tonight. I didn't.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:03 p.m. CST

    I watched WRESTLEMANIA 28

    by zillabeast

    Fucking fantastic show too. They stunned the hell outta me putting Rock over Cena clean. The real highlight was HHH-Undertaker III though. One of the greatest matches of all time.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:07 p.m. CST

    The Killing Is Dead To Me Too!

    by Gary Cochran

    I sat thru the whole first season and was trolled like everyone else in that finale and swore never to watch the show ever again. Game of Thrones is a different story. I'm psyched that it is back starting tonight and won't miss watching trollfest ... I mean The Killing at all.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:08 p.m. CST

    I watched The Killing

    by dukeroberts

    I thought it was pretty good tonight. It got me rehooked. Where the hell is Mitch? And, of course, I love Mad Men. Betty's fat face was a good job. Clint should have used those make-up folks for J. Edgar.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:15 p.m. CST

    The Killing

    by KelVarnson

    I liked the episodes tonight and will continute to follow. It got me hooked again too. I have to be honest though, I don't miss Michelle Forbes. She is one of those actresses that can grate on me to the point of being unable to watch.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:15 p.m. CST

    zillabeast

    by JaredP

    you still watch pro-wrestling? vince mcmahon has destroyed the sport with his over-inflated ego and random psycho tantrums when ever he doesn't get his own way. his daughter stephanie should take over the company. i think her and HHH would run a 100% better company than that douchebag ever did

  • April 1, 2012, 11:18 p.m. CST

    Just for the record, I watched "Game of Thrones", as well

    by tritium

    That is what is great about DVRs, you don't have to chose only one. So, I watched both "The Killing" and "Game of Thrones" tonight. For those who gave up on "The Killing" due to the ending of the first season...I think you might want to check out the 2nd season premiere (2-hours). It was very good...and like Dukeroberts, it got me hooked again. Although, I still have concerns about the web of interconnections and conspiracy theory story arc that the show seems to be building up. We'll see. But the season premiere was excellent. I loved how Holder got suspicious and switched the backpack. Well done.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Californication - no love?

    by celebritydave

    I think its the final tonight. Not the best season but i still like that shit

  • April 1, 2012, 11:20 p.m. CST

    so tonight is...

    by celebritydave

    GOT, Mad Men, The Killing, Californication, Wrestlemania and Family Guy? fuck thats a lot of downloading!

  • April 1, 2012, 11:21 p.m. CST

    jaredp

    by zillabeast

    Oh don't get me wrong, the week-to-week shows still suck by and large. Every now and then though, they get their shit in line for a big show like Wrestlemania and then all of a sudden it feels like all is right in the world once again. Truth be told, this PPV does nothing for WWE in the long run. HHH-Taker was a fucking classic (big part thanks to J.R. and HBK's involvment), but after tomorrow night none of those guys are coming back regularly. Same could be said for The Rock, who also put on a stellar 30+ min match despite not having competed singles in 9 years. So the high is nice for now...but we'll see how long it takes for it to all get wiped out.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:23 p.m. CST

    Still loving GOT and Mad Men

    by Red_Right_Return

    Not watching The Killing anymore. The season finale lost me as a fan. One thing I have to say about the guy who makes Spartacus, and that is the guy likes to wrap up his storylines each season with an atomic bomb. The Killing was more like a cap gun... One that failed to even produce a bang at that.

  • Why Cresson drink first??? Made no sense. Bothered the shit out of me.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:35 p.m. CST

    Once Upon A Time was great again like always

    by room23storeblogspotcom

    Great stuff finding out why Regina/ The Queen hates Snow White/Mary Margaret so much.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:39 p.m. CST

    therawbeatsdotcom

    by WeLiveStill...OrNot

    Cresson drank first because he knew he was dead already and to let her think the drink was safe. He sacrificed himself to try and kill her. But she has skills... and that glowing necklace... hehehehehehehehe...

  • April 1, 2012, 11:41 p.m. CST

    The Killing

    by severianx1

    I'm loving it. Love all the twists and turns in the plot, they're what make the show great. Unlike most, I actually liked the first season finale. I was quite pissed when I found out it was renewed for a second season, yet the mystery seemed to be solved and the story seemed to be over. If that had been the case, then it would have been absurd to bring it back for a second season. But then came that brilliant twist at the end and it all made sense, and made the show more interesting, as did the twists in tonight's episodes. Let's face it, this show is not for people who like things all tied up in a nice little package with a pretty little bow, so just fuck off and watch something else if that's what you're looking for. As for who killed Rosie, my guess is it was someone from her father's shady past.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:42 p.m. CST

    Damn good episode though.

    by Tim

    Everything about it just felt like it had more confidence, like everyone was more comfortable in their roles and everything was firing on all cylinders. Should be a great season.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:42 p.m. CST

    This GoT episode is a great example...

    by Fico

    Good episode. But the book is so much better. There's too much story and character development you're missing out on. Cressen (the guy who drinks the wine) is only in ONE chapter in the book. But he is much more developed than the nameless geezer we see in this episode. I encourage non-readers to stop by a bookstore (before it closes down) and read the prologue to Clash of Kings, it won't spoil anything for you. Kudos to these writers though, they're doing a better job than anybody else could with the limited episodes they have.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:44 p.m. CST

    therawbeatsdotcom, Melisandre was perfectly cast

    by Mattman

    Carice Van Houten is much better for this part than Hendricks. See Black Death or Black Book. The woman has some serious range.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:55 p.m. CST

    therawbeatsdotcom

    by WeLiveStill...OrNot

    He knew he stood alone against the Red Woman. And her remarks to him during the ceremony while she touched his cheek marked him has dead. But I strongly agree... a very good opening episode.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Good GoT

    by Boxcutter

    Ain't read the books, will eventually, but just want this show to take me places on its own with no preconceptions or expectations. Helluva ride, and a fine start. Swift, economical scenes, clearly conveying the scale of the world, the stakes and the characters we love, loathe and are already fascinated by. Mad Men is in danger of becoming a glam soap; everyone's talking too much. What happened to the silences and the glances that made up the show's unique vocabulary? The Killing - nah: I'm afraid when you've seen the Danish original, it's hard to watch and stay engaged. The Vanishing experience writ large. OK, it's late. Y'all take care.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:56 p.m. CST

    extr3m1st is right, Evil Queen is Ungodly hot

    by Tim Tringle

    Just love some of her outfits but most aren't revealing enough for me. I guess she's been in alot of stuff but the first time i ever noticed her was in OUAT. Here's hoping it get's picked up for a second season so she can keep wearing hot outfits in neverland.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:57 p.m. CST

    Cersei was much hotter this episode... she almost looked younger

    by Mattman

    Even Tyrion mentioned it!

  • April 1, 2012, 11:59 p.m. CST

    Mattman, I guess I'm just going by looks

    by Tim

    the character is supposed to be beautiful/voluptuous...that actress is neither. She looks like Katelyn 5 years younger. And yeah, Cersei DID look hotter for some reason.

  • April 1, 2012, 11:59 p.m. CST

    Mad Men

    by severianx1

    It's one of my favorite shows and I couldn't give a shit about appearing "sophisticated and fashionable", although there probably are some dumbasses who watch if for that reason, but they can go fuck themselves because they just don't get it. As for the haters, I think I've got them figured out. The show has become a bit of a pop culture phenomenon. They want to be part of it, but they just don't get it, and/or they just don't like it, so they have to shit all over it because they feel left out. It's quite pathetic, really.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:01 a.m. CST

    One thing that did bug me about GOT...

    by WeLiveStill...OrNot

    Bealish's remarks to Cersei in the courtyard were stupid. Granted, she was insulting the shit out of him. But for Bealish to tip his hand that he knew of her affair with Jaime was freaking DUMB. He's been a much more cleaver character than that up to this point.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:04 a.m. CST

    therawbeatsdotcom, um

    by Mattman

    In the real world, you need an actress, not a Playboy model. But if you think she's not beautiful or sexy enough, I direct you to a movie called Black Book: http://thirstyrabbit.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Carice_van_Houten_-_Zwartboek_2.jpg

  • April 2, 2012, 12:09 a.m. CST

    Once Upon a Time - Great Show

    by Red_Right_Return

    I didn't think I would like Once Upon a Time, but I absolutely love it. The writing is just excellent. All the characters are great. Finally, the evil queen wearing the black leather pants... Holy shit that woman has an awesome body. She also plays the part to perfection. I hate her so much but it was also to see her continued story tonight. I really think this girl could play any part, good or evil.

  • She looks good in those pics you linked to, way better than she does on GoT

  • April 2, 2012, 12:17 a.m. CST

    And speaking of less attractive, January Jones blew up!!!

    by Tim

    I mean, I know she was pregnant, but damn, that first shot of her was jarring

  • April 2, 2012, 12:19 a.m. CST

    red_right_return

    by room23storeblogspotcom

    Yeah I agree, I actually felt bad for the Queen with having to lose her true love. Man her Mother was a witch!

  • April 2, 2012, 12:20 a.m. CST

    HBO moving away from the prologue setup that they used in S1...

    by Patrick

    They could have easily used the same setup for this season. Getting a good 10-15 minutes of Dragonstone would have been a great opportunity to introduce 3 major characters (Stannis, Mel and Davos) and flesh them out a bit. To preface the episode, they gave you a quick 2 minute rundown of season one. They should have kept that and simply move to a prologue type setup similar to the rangers beyond the Wall in S1. Instead, they simply decided to jump straight to the opening credits (still happy they kept the same one from last season btw). Also, was the pilot not roughly 1hr5min in length? This one seemed to be just under 50minutes, and just to underscore what we seem to all agree on with the lack of a prologue, there was definitely room for it and still have plenty of time for the other main characters to get reintroduced. Oh well... overall, it was a very decent episode to start off the second season. Tyrion/Cersei, San/San, Theon setup..., and extremely happy they seem to be streamlining Daenerys' story arc a bit (reducing time in the Red Waste).

  • April 2, 2012, 12:26 a.m. CST

    did GOT call America a fool?

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    the fool in the episode who was drunk armored very much like captain america (ie blue with red and white stripes)... or am I just unpatriotic and reading too much into it? ps: if anyone mentioned this already, sorry, i didnt read the tb since i didnt watch the rosie larson mystery show yet or any of fox domination pps: GOD DAMN GOT WAS TIGHT. thank you to the simpsons for doing that GOT intro couch gag, i may have never gave the show a try

  • April 2, 2012, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Can we pleaae ban

    by dahveed1972

  • April 2, 2012, 12:36 a.m. CST

    lol at banning wrestling fans

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    although i am mad that jericho lost tonight...

  • April 2, 2012, 1:03 a.m. CST

    hey dahveed

    by zillabeast

    wrestling wrestling wrestling WRESTLING lol

  • April 2, 2012, 1:18 a.m. CST

    Mad men and game of thrones.

    by amin

    i love both of them. you don't have to choose between the two. the problem is mad men is really a show for adults and a lot of people here are insecure teenagers trying to be cool. they love got because they love skyrim and dragon age

  • April 2, 2012, 1:49 a.m. CST

    Great start to season 2 of Game of Thrones.

    by Kammich

    Watched it live with a group of friends and then just watched an encore a few hours ago by myself... good start to the season. Quick thoughts, as a fan of the books AND the show: - FINALLY, the direwolves are scary. They are imposing and threatening. They're meant to give the Stark children an upper hand, just like Dany's dragons. I didn't get that vibe last year, but the "interrogation" scene with Robb, Grey Wind and Jaime was awesome. - On the subject of Robb, he is one of my least favorite characters in the book... yet he is one of my favorites on the show. Military strategic badass who doesn't take any shit; all the best of his father without any of the naivete. Looking forward to his expanded role in the show. - Only one Dany scene... can they avoid the rather blase' path that Dany takes in book 2? She's a great character and Emilia Clarke is gorgeous, but she doesn't have a ton to do in book 2. Maybe they can work around that. - Davos rules. Cressen was great. Mel is perfect. Stephen Dillane reminds me of a grizzled Jason Statham. I pictured someone like Ralph Fiennes as Stannis when reading the books, but I think Dillane can win me over. - Jack Gleeson is quickly becoming the best part of the show... taking a completely hateable, awful, mean-spirited character from the pages of the book... and making him even WORSE on the show. Props to Gleeson.

  • April 2, 2012, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Oh, and one more thing

    by Kammich

    I always thought Lena Headey was an attractive woman... but when did she become so smoking hot? She's entering Keira Knightley territory.

  • April 2, 2012, 2:58 a.m. CST

    Game Of Thrones - Everyone dies

    by eveelcapitalist

    Everyone'll be dead by season three. Most everyone. Dinklage'll still have a job. Don't warm to the characters too much, there's no point. And anyone who uses the word "impactful" needs the curative effect of a fist impacting across their face.

  • Highly overrated show.

  • April 2, 2012, 3:29 a.m. CST

    Game of Thrones - Enjoyable, but

    by V'Shael

    I think the episode really suffered by having so many storylines and characters. It really gave the impression that they are going to try and fit all of book 2 in season 2. And all the storylines will suffer because they'll only be able to show us fragments of each. How much screen time did Dany get? Baelish? Robb? Jaime? Arya? The season is maybe 10 episodes long. If we get such small scenes with so many characters, even over the course of 10 episodes, it doesn't give much time for each storyline. Now, if it was 22 episodes.. I think there'd be room enough.

  • April 2, 2012, 4:23 a.m. CST

    v'shael

    by amin

    i agree, there is too many storylines and too little room in less than an hour (52 minutes). Cressen death was without impact because he never spoke with Stannis. we don't know that he is a father figure for Stannis. we don't know that he raised him and loved him because he thinks that nobody loves Stannis so he has too love him. we don't know how much he is heartbroken and angry about this woman who is stealing away his "son" from him. i really think now that the books offers a much, much more enjoyable experience.

  • April 2, 2012, 4:48 a.m. CST

    @taliesnin - The Cressen example is good alright

    by V'Shael

    but I don't think the show necessarily loses anything from omitting that background to Stannis's character. I'm more concerned with things like... Dany already didn't have much to do in book 2. I think they're going to expand on her role in the TV series though, because you have a good actress under contract and you can't really not use her and tell her to come back next year. We'll just have to see how they work it.

  • It wasn't quite up to the level of last season's Joffrey slapfest by Tyrion, but still enjoyable nonetheless after seeing how much of an ass he had been through the first 10 minutes of the episode. Speaking of Tyrion, that scene with him and Cersei was probably the best in the entire episode rounded off with him mocking her as the disappointment to their father - a role that he's only too familiar with. But Lena Hedly also had her own Cersei power moment when she turned the tables on poor Littlefinger just when he thought he had her by the balls ( and yes, I do believe she has balls underneath that dress- big brass balls). Another great scene was Jaimie having to face Robb and his direwolf - looked a little disproportional with the CGI but Jaimie's reaction totally sold it. Great episode all in all. Started the Weekend with a fucking epic Spartacus season finale and rounded it at the end with a fantastic Game of Thrones Season premier. Walking Dead... Spartacus... Game of Thrones... Mad Men.... Fringe.... Breaking Bad.... Avengers.... Clone Wars.... Gentlemen, we truly live in the golden age of Television. Especially if you're a geek.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:22 a.m. CST

    GoT should have been a two-hour premier

    by happybunni

    Good episode setting everything up, but there was a lack of any "holy shit!" moments as everything's just being set up. I wanted to see more of Daenerys, Tyrion, and Rob. Maybe another short battle or something. I felt the intro of the new characters was quite good, although I have not read the books. Definitely felt like there should have been a second hour played to flesh out the story some more.... Rather than being stuck with tiny scenes of everyone.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:23 a.m. CST

    daveed, dig your panties out of your ass

    by Chest_Rockwell

    I didn't spoil anything. I just said they are setting it up. Of course, you don't know what "it" is, and I didn't say, so stfu and get some cream for your sore pussy.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:24 a.m. CST

    Re: welivestill...ornot

    by happybunni

    Mm not sure I agree with that. Was it dumb of her to act like anything other than her humble servant? Yes. But it sounds like pretty much everyone everywhere is going to know about her affair with Jamie, so it doesn't matter that he mentioned it

  • April 2, 2012, 6:33 a.m. CST

    direwolves...

    by Chest_Rockwell

    are supposed to be larger than regular wolves. So, i think the cgi was on purpose.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:45 a.m. CST

    "Impactful" isn't a word.

    by kells

  • I've read them but just twice, and it's been years since I read books one and two, but did Joffrey learn or accept that Jaime was his father and he was a bastard son of an incestuous pairing? I got the impression from the scene last night that he knew and didn't seem to give a shit, and I had no memory of that from the books. Am I misreading the scene? Or are they going off book? Or was that in the book?

  • April 2, 2012, 7:08 a.m. CST

    chest_rockwell

    by David Duchovny

    More gay men like you need to come out with user names like that. Stop the hate. Wear those muscle shirts proudly baby! Disco in Frisco 2012

  • April 2, 2012, 7:22 a.m. CST

    v'shael

    by alpine

    In the book Joffery is aware of the "slander" by Stannis but he doesn't believe it.

  • April 2, 2012, 7:53 a.m. CST

    My show is better than your show

    by The_Red_Avenger

    Why does everything have to be a fucking pissing contest? As somebody said - we live in a golden age of television. Enjoy the diversity, stop bitching and chill the fuck out

  • April 2, 2012, 8:36 a.m. CST

    Avengers is much better then young justice.

    by Volllllume3

  • April 2, 2012, 8:58 a.m. CST

    mr. nice gaius sit down and stfu...

    by Dkev00

    I've actually been here for nearly 12 years. My guess, since you were in diapers. Oh and Mad Men is still shit. So get over it douche bag.

  • April 2, 2012, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius isn't nice at all

    by David Duchovny

    He's a huge sloppy cunt. I can actually smell his tuna before I click on a thread.

  • April 2, 2012, 9:21 a.m. CST

    Game of Thrones is Flawed Storytelling

    by chaseguy17

    It's popcorn entertainment; but it's not a believable story (even for fantasy fiction). The main flaw is Joffery's rise to power. It just isn't believable. For it to be believable you have to imagine that when somebody becomes king, they have absolute mind control over all of the guards and soldiers of the kingdom. This is a 13 year old kid who from the second he has taken command he has made his solders unquestionably murder lords, women and babies. Nobody questions him. The soldiers act without hesitation or morals. Where is their fear coming from? Joffery has no friends in high places that support him. Realistically if Cersei wanted to stop her son she probably could (but not in this show). By simply declearing that Joffery is not of a suitable age, the lords and soldiers would surely listen. Nobody is on Joffery's side, yet everybody does what he wants. This isn't somebody like Hitler who had friends in high places and superior tactical skills. This is a 13 year old piece of shit who everybody hates who has absolutely zero war experience. Nobody would listen to his ridiculous commands. Joffery does not have anybody on his side that would create fear in the minds of the soldiers if they were to ever stab him in his sleep. Even Tywin thinks Joffery is worthless. All i'm saying is; this could easily be put to an end. These stories are written in a way that when you're king of the Seven Kingdoms, you can literally do anything you want and nobody will question you. For some dicatorships that can be a reality; but in Joffery's case, he has absoloutely no support for his power.

  • April 2, 2012, 9:29 a.m. CST

    Joffery has no friends in high places that support him.

    by heylookoverthere

    Other than his family, you know the richest most influential family in Westeros. Not to mention his mother has the caption of the city watch in her pocket, and most of the other knights in King's Landing who weren't Lannister men left with Renly or died with Eddard last season.

  • April 2, 2012, 9:33 a.m. CST

    Why is "Justified" the only show to get it's own talkback anymore?

    by heylookoverthere

    I love Justified, but it doesn't compare to Mad Men or Game of Thrones. Or is there just nothing else worth watching on Tuesday?

  • That episode last night was well worth the wait. And even know the story for this season from the book, didn't change how great this show captures it. That last scenes were CRAZY and just show how evil a bastard Joffrey is!!! This show is freaking AWESOME!

  • April 2, 2012, 9:35 a.m. CST

    The Killing season 1 was great

    by thx185

    People complaining about the lack of perfect resolution in the finale are off-base. All season long The Killing had plot elements that went against typical "TV-style" storytelling, and instead showed the randomness and unpredictability of life (and real-life detective work). They did that all season long. The finale was just 1 more example of that. I would have found it eye-rollingly bad if Rosie's killer had been caught just in time for the end of the finale. I enjoy the realistic fits-and-starts that the investigation has.<br><br> Meanwhile, Game of Thrones is very overrated because of 1 major problem: pacing. There is way too much story to cram into 10 episodes each season. The pacing of the season 2 pilot was exactly like most of season 1: too compressed, too rushed, no breathing room for characters & settings. There were great scenes, but the were compressed right up against other scenes with no breathing room. This damages the show's ability to give a good, cohesive narrative. The show has also changed some plot details that were better done in the books (the dynamic between Cersai and Joffrey is 180 degrees different between book 2 and season 2, for example).

  • April 2, 2012, 9:39 a.m. CST

    pretty sure man men is 1965 currently

    by cekma

    last season ended late 64, and this started around memorial day weekend of 65, not 66.

  • April 2, 2012, 9:41 a.m. CST

    1s and 2 ratings?? Damn...

    by rocketeuropa

  • April 2, 2012, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Fat Betty's Fat Cancer Scare

    by NeonFrisbee

    Letcher self go there, Betts? Tsk tsk. Whyncha havea second sundae then, you fatty fat burger?

  • April 2, 2012, 9:45 a.m. CST

    The Killing

    by heylookoverthere

    I enjoy the realistic fits-and-starts that the investigation has.

  • April 2, 2012, 9:46 a.m. CST

    My post got messed up for some reason

    by heylookoverthere

  • April 2, 2012, 9:48 a.m. CST

    by heylookoverthere

    http://ww w.avclub.com/articles/orpheus-descending,57743/ There's a nice list of plotholes from "The Killing" The show's retarded.

  • April 2, 2012, 10:05 a.m. CST

    thx185...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...ummm, I don't quite know how to put this. But the reason that stories are resolved (whether it be neatly or with plenty of enticing loose ends) at the end of a television season, series, movie or story is because once the main action is resolved the story is over. Perhaps you would have found it 'eye-rollingly bad if Rosie's killer had been caught just in time for the end of the finale', but that sort of thing is at the heart of what some of us call competent storytelling. It really isn't an accident or some amazing coincidence that mysteries are usually resolved at the end of a story, that the lovers come together right before the credits roll or the demon is driven out just before the lights go down. In writing we refer to those events as climaxes, and after the climax the story is pretty much over. Now, the first season of The Killing asked the audience to seriously consider a number of suspects presented in such a transparent and flimsy manner (I mean really--the teacher?) as to be horrifically frustrating, then discarded them with a weary sigh and a stagger in a different direction. The various breakdowns of Rosie's parents were so carefully timed to correspond to the needs of the plot that you could almost count them down with a stopwatch. The pacing was exactly that plodding and predictable. And the first season of The Killing went against typical TV-style storytelling? Would that have been with the compromised political crusader, the sketchy Silicon Valley style corrupt rich man, the old country wiseguy, the slick political operative, the resentful political loyalist, the cop who is just about to hang up her cuffs, her typically rebellious son, the frustrated significant other... ...and the list could go on. Sorry to be this unyielding and I hope the second season is better than the first but The Killing reminds me of a line from Miller's Crossing: A lie and no heart.

  • April 2, 2012, 10:15 a.m. CST

    chaseguy17

    by eric haislar

    How wrong you are about listening to Joffry. He is there king it does not matter how old or how much experience he has. This happen over and over again though out history. Young children became kings it is there birthright. King Tut was 9 years old when he became king. Henry the III was 15 when he become king. Edward VI was 9 years old as well. It's more common then you think and people did whatever they said.

  • April 2, 2012, 10:16 a.m. CST

    red ned lynch

    by thx185

    You're exactly right, 99.9% of movies and tv shows do wrap up their stories with a nice bow, exactly as you describe.<br><br> That's the reason I enjoy the other .01% of shows that buck those conventions to present a more life-like narrative. They will resolve plenty of plot points, but they will also leave some hanging in a very lifelike way. Examples of shows that do this, in my opinion, are The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad, and The Killing.<br><br> All of those shows feature outstanding storytelling, with plenty of dramatic payoffs and plot resolutions. But they also include plenty of side-alleys, red herrings, and otherwise unresolved elements, and that is a good thing in my opinion. It lends those shows an air of realism and texture that I love.<br><br> There are plenty of novels especially that employ this technique, where plot elements are ambiguous, implied, and left to the read to draw his/her on conclusions about. If you don't enjoy them, fine. But you should consider that it is an established-- and successful-- form of storytelling.<br><br> Not all good stories have to be so neatly resolved as you seem to think. Not all unanswered questions are bad. Unanswered questions can be very enjoyable. The tone, writing, and acting of The Killing was excellent in my opinion, and I enjoyed the twists and turns of the investigation. Including the one in the finale.<br><br> I'm not saying it was a perfect show, but some people go overboard hating on it just because it didn't tie everything up in a nice red bow for you.

  • April 2, 2012, 10:21 a.m. CST

    Rick-Santorum-Ate-My-Baby

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Shut your whore mouth!

  • When Robert died, Joffrey is the next in line to be king. Done. The kingdom and the guards and knights, etc. have no clue who his real parents are. Ned knew. Ned's dead. And something like that would have to be proven true for anyone to give a shit. It does not matter how cruel or mean Joffrey is. He is king. And the Lanniseters pretty much own all of the powers of Kings Landing. Hence Ned being captured, imprisoned, and killed when he thought he had the upper hand. So Joffrey did not have to fight his way to power or fight someone else's claim. Even he thinks he is Robert's son. And as it stands, he is the heir.

  • April 2, 2012, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Also Cersie and Tywin want Joffrey to be king!!!

    by BilboRing

    Why? Because he is a LANNISTER!!!! If he is not king, they are just rich lords instead of rich lords with family on the iron throne. No powerful allies? The Lannisters are all the power you need. They are the most powerful family in the land. Why do the guards fear him? He is king! He is a Lannister! And he has the Hound!! Wow. I am done with talking to people with no clue.

  • April 2, 2012, 11:02 a.m. CST

    chaseguy17 - Joffrey has very little actual power

    by frank

    His mother and Tyrion are mainly calling the shots during the second book. Joffrey just holds tourneys and shoots things with his crossbow for the most part. Even so, he is considered by most (in King’s Landing, at least) to be the rightful king by birthright and thus does command the loyalty of the the king’s guard, army etc. More importantly, the people who were in positions of power during Robert’s reign know that it is in their best interests to maintain allegiance to Joffrey and the Lannisters in order to retain their statuses. It isn’t just a little boy they are following, it is a very powerful family. You raise a good point, though, and one that is addressed in the book. I hope that in the show they include Vary’s riddle that he poses to Tyrion in the book about who a sellsword will obey: the king, the septon, or the rich man. That was a poignant part of the book that sums up one of its major themes. Book 2 especially focuses on where power comes from and why some attain it while others do not. I hope that theme will be handled well in the TV series.

  • April 2, 2012, 11:04 a.m. CST

    couple of questions from S2 E1 of GoT

    by frank

    Why did Stannis leave Lightbringer stuck in the sand? How the fuck did Daenerys' hair grow back so quickly?

  • April 2, 2012, 11:10 a.m. CST

    celebritydave (Caifornication spoiler)

    by gotilk

    It seemed to end with his death, didn't it? Well, it has another season, so no. I thought the whole ending felt almost TOO pat... too perfect... Like he was dreaming the whole thing. It doesn't help that the episode began with him in hell (great scene), so I think next season he wakes in a hospital, none of the things he thought were resolved are and he was indeed drugged by crazy pyro-nympho lady. Californication doesn't get the love it deserves, but you gotta admit these last 2 seasons have just not been as good. They have their moments, but at times I want to just reach through the screen and put a stop to the comedy of errors shit. Just sit the family down and explain that he's been spending the last 2 years basically protecting them. From themselves, others, the truth... you name it. But no, they keep dragging it out for dramatic/comedic effect and it gets old. How about things happen on the show as they would in real life again for a season? They basically just set him up for it again. They'll find him half alive with a dead woman on top of him and make assumptions. I do want to know which Slayer album he names his next book after though. That's always been a fun thing to catch on to. Not a huge fan or anything, but everyone should have some Slayer in their lives from time to time. Clears the head. I am picky about which shows I watch, and once I decide to watch, I watch to the end. Sadly though, Californication is at the bottom of that short list. Right next to House of Lies, which is good but really needs to tighten up.

  • April 2, 2012, 11:10 a.m. CST

    chaseguy17

    by feldman10

    You write that "Joffery has no friends in high places that support him." That's totally wrong. Every powerful person who's still in King's Landing right now has colluded to raise him to the throne. You ask why the soldiers obey him? They're on the Lannister payroll. The man who killed the bastard baby, Janos Slynt, had a line earlier in the episode reminding us that Cersei made him a lord and he owes everything to her. If Cersei wanted to speak up and stop Joffrey's abuses, then maybe she could. But she hasn't spoken up. She's criticized him in private but has been unwilling to publicly countermand his commands, like when he called for Ned's head.

  • April 2, 2012, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Hey, can someone answer this for me... new to the TV Show

    by Nick

    Does Joffrey get poisoned this seaon or next? Same goes with Rob and Catelynn. I think Rob get's his head cut off this season, and Cate get's turned into a zombie... RIGHT???

  • April 2, 2012, 11:14 a.m. CST

    franks_television

    by Clabog592

    Daenerys' hair was not burnt off at the end of season one, that was just a detail in the book that the show decided to exclude. Not sure about the Lightbringer question though...

  • April 2, 2012, 11:23 a.m. CST

    franks_television

    by heylookoverthere

    They included vary's riddle or part of it in almost all of the trailers for season two, it's definitely in.

  • April 2, 2012, 11:28 a.m. CST

    agreed 'welivestill...ornot'...

    by carlotta_valdes

    ...it was equivalent to Ned's courtyard meeting with Cersei, where in his naively noble way he called himself giving her a chance to escape with her children by conveying the same information to her. Bealish's intentions were of course very different, getting rattled when Cersei made the conversation 'personal' an giving up what he knew. IMO that's just not character accurate for LittleFinger.

  • April 2, 2012, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Natalieportman is such a fuckin asshole

    by Crow3711

    I know what's going to happen so I don't care, but whoever reads that and doesn't know....what a massive cock.

  • April 2, 2012, 11:30 a.m. CST

    natalieportman

    by Slaybase

    you're a total ass, why spoil some of the biggest moments for people who haven't read the book?

  • April 2, 2012, 11:32 a.m. CST

    Oh yeah, guess you are right about Daenerys’ hair, clabog

    by frank

    I really thought it has been burned off on the show, too, but I did a google image search and it looks like she just had it tied back. I guess if her skin can be fire-resistant it is OK for her hair to be also.

  • Pay no attention to that douche weasel.

  • April 2, 2012, 11:42 a.m. CST

    I doubt the show will last long enough

    by heylookoverthere

    for those spoilers to matter. Don't get me wrong I hope it does, but I still have bitter memories of Deadwood and Carnivale. Doesn't HBO normally announce renewals the day after the premier? I haven't heard anything about season 3 being approved.

  • April 2, 2012, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Notes on this week's MAD MEN

    by Greggers

    What a drag it is getting old...

  • April 2, 2012, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Chiming in.

    by gotilk

    Because I am compelled. First of all, I don't watch Mad Men anymore. Why? Because it's not good? NO.. Because I just lost interest in it. I know it's a quality show. The subject just interests me SO little that I could not stick to it. GOT premiere was fantastic, far too short. I wish they'd given us the first 2 hours instead of just one. It hurt a little. The Killing should have done the opposite, or hired a better editor. I liked season 1, even the way it ended, even though I agree with much of the criticisms. Californication. I'll watch it to the end, even though I think they're dragging it out far too long without really taking any risks. Maybe I'm expecting too much after the improvement of season 2 over season 1. Shameless is just hilarious, period. Macy is so good in it. He's despicable, disgusting, abusive and yet... I feel for the character. You just know people are really living like that out there. Everyone else, especially Lip, are great characters, performed perfectly. The finale was slightly anti-climactic, but I still loved it. Walking Dead - Love it in spite of its flaws. Hope it improves. Breaking Bad - COME BACK NOW, best show on TV. Awake - Better than I thought it would be. Touch - So sorry I gave it a shot. Borgia - Better than The Borgias. Give it a chance. Much more compelling. Fringe - Just stop it, it's still great with great characters. It deserves a chance to wrap things up. There is SO much on TV right now that rivals much of cinema, we're so lucky. What a great time to be alive with HDTVs. But we're still missing something. Something major. Something that MUST happen.... A smart sci-fi show (other than Fringe or Alcatraz, which I barely count) on a major cable network where they are allowed to tell adult stories without censors over their shoulders making them compromise in order to reach a *family* audience. A new Star Trek series would be fine. Can you even imagine how interesting a Trek series would be on something like Showtime or HBO? Pipe dream. Especially considering they are probably reluctant to venture beyond the JJ universe. Don't count on SyffY. They are disappoint.

  • April 2, 2012, 11:59 a.m. CST

    Not reading the talkback. Sorry if this has been said.

    by Nice Marmot

    The handling of Stannis & Co.'s intro was clunky as hell. And I'm sure non-readers could have handled them leading off w/ him, too. And then they cram Cressen's toast in there??? That was a nice, tense scene in the book. Other than that, I liked it. Was stunning to see the comet the first time. And then learning that the direwolves are indeed growing up!!!

  • April 2, 2012, 12:01 p.m. CST

    Ah, so someting I did caused 99% of my message to not get posted

    by Greggers

    Must be this quotation problem I've heard about. That sucks. Suffice to say that I had brilliant insights on Betty, Don, late sixties society, and magic realism that are now ALL GONE! Gone...like tears...in the rain. (Cue dove.) Then again, if I had to leave a cryptically succinct and understated post that summed up the episode, *What a drag it is getting old* isn't a bad way to go.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:03 p.m. CST

    chaseguy, you should brush up on your European history

    by bah

    This is ABSOLUTELY realistic. It's only in the last two hundred years that blind devotion to whoever was born the right way wasn't standard operating procedure, and it STILL is in some places.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:08 p.m. CST

    S3 and S4 are already greenlit and being filmed

    by Crow3711

    Thyre doing them at the same time, Lotr style, to save time and money. Definitely making it to RW scene. I'll be more surprised if it goes past s4. I doubt feast and dance get made

  • April 2, 2012, 12:16 p.m. CST

    crow3711

    by heylookoverthere

    you got a link or something? I'd love to believe you but I read in an interview the other day that the producers didn't think it would be possible to film two seasons back to back.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:16 p.m. CST

    thx185...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...your examples, outside of The Killing, pretty much prove my point. Each of those other shows, on a season to season basis, built tension throughout the season and ended with strong climaxes. Just to take The Wire as an example: Season One ended with the arrest of Avon Barksdale and the failure to follow the money, with the implication of rather dire consequences for those who had raised the ire of the Burrell and Rawls. Season Two ended with Sobotka's death, the Greeks slipping away, the virtual destruction of the union and the implication that there would be certain rewards going forward. Season Three ended with Stringer Bell's death, the destruction of the Barksdale machine and the split between McNulty and Daniels. Season Four ended with the entering into adult life of all four of the teens the season had followed. All of these seasons (I'm not even going to bother with the busload of resolutions in five) not only had definitive, wide ranging climaxes but served to at once set up the next season and act as coda to the current season's theme. It's really good writing. The final episode of the first season of The Killing clilmaxed with the "jumping cat" scare of the politician standing in a dark room with the smaller police officer who had come to arrest him, followed that with his arrest (which had been foreshadowed with all the grace of a bull in a tutu by the drowning death of his wife, his curious interactions with women, etc. etc. ad nauseam) and the subsequent stinger that not only was he probably not guilty but that there was a bigger conspiracy lurking in the background. Now the foreshadowing on the politician (just like for the teacher and the employee and the boyfriend) had been so hamfisted and reliant on overused tropes instead of character specific traits that I would have been disgusted with the CSI style simplicity if he had been the killer. But to pull it away in a coda that might as well have concluded with the words The End followed by a question mark is very nearly the definition of cliche. Please. Don't compare The Killing to any of those other shows until it does something better or more original than it has so far.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Crow

    by heylookoverthere

    Weiss: Season three, we’re talking about it as if we have a green light. We’re all optimistic about it, but we won’t know until after the second season starts to air.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:20 p.m. CST

    forgot it removes links.

    by heylookoverthere

    http://inside tv.ew.com/2012/03/30/game-of-thrones-showrunners-season-2/3/

  • April 2, 2012, 12:27 p.m. CST

    The Killing is Nothing But Hilariously Bad Red Herri g

    by Crow3711

    *This week well show you evidence that is basically definitive evidence against our hilariously stupid rogues gallery. Then, either at the end of this episode or the beginning of the next, well provide a preposterous explanation of how it's not what it seems/tampered with/misleading/and/or/inconclusive. And well do it FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON! It's brilliant televisoon*. Um no its fucking crap and veena Sid and the other writers are lying hacks. They PROMISED the murder mystery would e solved by S1 end, that it wouldn't be dragged out. Not only could they not deliver a compelling Mystery weekly, they couldn't even keep their promise. They're fucking hacks and the show is terrible, misleading nonsense. That's not a mystery. That's a game of show and tell. It's a well-made piece of shit.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Perhaps that was Rumor/Speculation about S3 and S4

    by Crow3711

    I just thought when I read about it it was like.a "this is what were gonna do". I guess it hasn't been greenlit yet technically. Weird.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:30 p.m. CST

    @ chaseguy17, regarding Joffrey

    by jim

    Ned was named Lord Regent by Robert before he died, meaning he would rule as king until (supposedly) Joffrey came of age. Cersei, and those who also preferred to keep Ned from acting as Regent, forced a power-struggle for control of the new king. Ned lost and, as a result, Joffrey gained more control over his position when he publicly went against his council's wishes in regards to Ned's fate. Cersei and the others thought they could control him; they were wrong. Those taking orders from him aren't listening to a 13 year old kid; the orders come from their king. It's the position, not the person, they follow. As king, his word is law. Publicly, anyone who contradicts him or goes against him is committing treason, and Joffrey showed how merciful he isn't when it comes to treason. So, when he now gives an order, his underlings obey because they know that not to is tantamount to suicide. If one highly placed person, or people, step up and say "this is wrong, you shouldn't be king" you can bet there are dozens willing to defend the king in order to feed their own ambition. Besides, he has the Hound, one of the scariest and most feared men in the kingdom, to protect him. Anyone who wants to take out Joffrey has to go through him.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:35 p.m. CST

    @ crow3711 - You hit the nail on the red herring

    by menacingphantom

    Right on. It eventually got to be funny enough to keep watching just for the "this week's definitely-did-it-but-not-really-character is..."

  • April 2, 2012, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Fat suit?

    by syn_flood

    They wrote in that storyline to account for JJ's real life pregnancy. So many idiots in here it's unbelievable.

  • April 2, 2012, 12:42 p.m. CST

    My only fear with Thrones is the cost, DON'T BE CHEAP HBO!

    by Wcwlkr

    My only fear that comes from thrones is the cost of the show. I remember Rome, getting nixed not due to quality but do do the cost. Same for Deadwood. Don't be cheap HBO Game of Thrones is freaking magnificent you'll get your moneys worth with that show. I'm still pissed they cancelled Carnivale right when it FINALLY was getting really good! I made it through the somewhat boring first season just when it GOT supremely excellent with season 2 and they axed it! So please don't quit on GAME OF THRONES!

  • April 2, 2012, 12:43 p.m. CST

    Rob Stark is the shit!

    by Randy

  • April 2, 2012, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Sheesh! MM, Got...MM, GoT...MM, GoT

    by film11

    We don't smoke in the house.

  • April 2, 2012, 1:06 p.m. CST

    As for HOUSE OF LIES...

    by film11

    ...someone complained that there wasn't one likeable character. Good! I'm sick of shows where people have to be "likeable." In the real corporate world, very few are!

  • April 2, 2012, 1:09 p.m. CST

    natalieportmans

    by ManInTheMembersOnlyJacket

    I have read the books, yet I still think you are a complete and utter asshole. Eat shit and die. Cheers!

  • Not saying which "spoilers" that pertains to....

  • April 2, 2012, 1:52 p.m. CST

    DO NOT READ THESE THREADS IF YOU ARE NEW TO GOT!!!

    by BilboRing

    Cock suckers like "natalieportman" will ruin the series for you big time. If you want to discuss the show or the books go to www.westeros.org. They are so much better and banning cock suckers and filtering for spoilers. AICN is a site for dickweeds and assholes who like to ruin shot for people.

  • April 2, 2012, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Come on guys

    by Nick

    It's not like Rob get's his Wolfs head sewn on his headless body....

  • April 2, 2012, 2:03 p.m. CST

    exactly why you post here, bilboring

    by Nick

  • April 2, 2012, 2:11 p.m. CST

    natalie...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...you are a big boy. Just look what you did. Aren't you important? Oh, so clever, too. Such a smart little man. We're all so very proud of you. All looking at you. All thinking of you. You just remember to flush, now, dearest. That's a good, big, smart boy.

  • April 2, 2012, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Spoiler alert for Natalie Portmanyummy

    by Valyrian_ Steel

    Warning -- if you've never ever read any of Natalie Portmans afterbirth posts stop reading now!! ****Spoiler below alert below***** Nataileportmansyummyafterbirth is a pathetic little cunt wipe. *********end spoiler**********

  • April 2, 2012, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Exactly what kind of joy do you get from spoiling things?

    by Kammich

    I'm trying not to call attention to the spoilers in this TB, but its kind of hard not to be annoyed. What joy do you get out of spoiling something for people you don't even know, and will never meet? Spoiling something that they enjoy? Is your life really in that bad of a place that you have to put on your big-boy internet pants and shower your mis-placed aggression on other people who are trying to have civil discussions? Its just lame. I believe in all sorts of free speech on message boards and the like, but honestly, douchebags like that SHOULD be banned.

  • April 2, 2012, 2:49 p.m. CST

    thank you red ned lynch ... and

    by Nick

    I didn't have to bring up Jon Snow getting betrated and being possibly killed in a cliffhanger for season 5.

  • April 2, 2012, 3:21 p.m. CST

    red ned lynch

    by thx185

    For me, the comparison of The Killing to The Wire and other great shows is valid. I think it's totally ridiculous the way some viewers feel that they've been cheated, or that the show is bad, just because the show unfolds in a way that is unconventional.<br><br> My point, that you didn't address, still stands that there are plenty of amazing works of fiction that end without resolution. I enjoy that. If you don't, so be it, but don't call foul that the work (tv show, movie, book) is breaking some unbreakable storytelling rule.

  • April 2, 2012, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Damn these combined talkbacks

    by skycrapper

    Waiting patiently for franksimms ... he probably got lost with this format.

  • April 2, 2012, 4:13 p.m. CST

    Stannis leaving Lightbringer in the sand

    by Tim

    completely ruined the scene. Felt like a high school play with an off-screen director rushing everyone except Davos and Cressen away. Little details like that just make absolutely no sense and I wonder why the director either leaves it like that/doesn't notice. The scene in last seasons finale with Arya and the 2 bullies was the same way...felt so damn cheap it's just jarring in the midst of all the other quality scenes. As for pacing, I have absolutely no problem with the abundance of characters. It's a lot of fun, actually, not knowing which story we'll be jumping to next. In fact, I might say the season 2 premier may have been my favorite thrones episode ever. Last thing...where's Franksimms???

  • April 2, 2012, 4:30 p.m. CST

    thx185...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...that's because that's not my problem with it. My problem with it were that the characters were recycled and that the attempts at creating a mystery cribbed and cribbed badly from other, better shows. I did respond to your assertion that it would have been 'eye-rollingly bad' if the show had happened to solve the mystery in the final moments of the series because ultimately what you've created is a bizarre analog to the statement 'your keys are always the last place you look for them'. Well yes, they are, because after that you stop looking for them. For instance if I said 'it would be eye-rollingly bad if Verbal Kent had been revealed as Keyser Soze in the last minutes of the Usual Suspects' most people would laugh at me. And they would be right. This has nothing to do with whether there have been great works of art that did not resolve their story in a conventional manner. There clearly have been, and since none of your three examples are among these, as all of them did resolve their plots in a conventional manner, I will offer one up, once again to illustrate by example what I am talking about. The Birds. This film by Hitchcock ends with the central characters, one of whom has been injured and is nearly catatonic, driving away through a landscape dominated by the birds that have gone to war with humanity. There has been no definitive explanation of why the birds began attacking humans, no solution to the problem offered and only a vague hint that the problem may be spreading to other areas. The film doesn't even offer the viewer an authority figure, an expert who can explain the possibilities. The closest it comes is to include a skeptical, eccentric bird watcher. There you go. And it is one of my favorite movies. Has been since I was a kid. And yet it does offer a number of resolutions. It offers a resolution to the relationship between Rod Taylor's mother and Tippi Hedren. Thematically, though the film offers an absolute resolution, playing through to completion the 'last humans' imagery of a world that has inexplicably turned on the human race and a landscape that has been rendered alien to man and all his works. Hitchcock had actually considered making Food of the Gods before settling on The Birds and his obssession and intent as an artist could not be more clear, though his film leaves the viewer free to draw from it the message that they will. This is the climax of the film. The final attack on Hedren and the sneaking to the car, even Taylor's accepting a wound in silence, resolve the film's theme that mankind has lost its dominion even though there is no conventional climax. This is what these sort of works of art do. The ones that don't have a conventional resolution. They still resolve themselves thematically. More important they have themes worth resolving. Now I watched The Killing. And just as The Killing is no The Wire, it is also no The Birds. The hard and fast rule is that there must be a climax that brings to the reader or viewer a certain sense of completion. It doesn't need to be marked by explosions or the clapping shut of handcuffs. It can be a realization, like that revealed by Tommy Lee Jones in my favorite movie of the last decade, No Country for Old Men. It can be an emotional note, as in one of my favorite films of all time, They Might Be Giants. But yeah, it's got to be something. Look, if you like The Killing more power to you. But don't try to turn its flaws into virtues and expect anyone to buy it. And the female cop realizing she's thought the wrong person was guilty for the fourth time in the season is neither a moment of dramatic revelation or something that creates in the viewer an emotional assonance. The Killing was meandering due to sloppy construction.

  • April 2, 2012, 4:42 p.m. CST

    GoT cancellation....

    by Patrick

    Is definitely not going to happen any time soon. HBO knows what sort of cash cow they have on their hands. GoT is grabbing new viewers from great word-of-mouth from the TV fanbase and book series fanbase alike. I am among those who subscribed to HBO just so I would be able to watch the second season in HD as opposed to streaming a sub-SD version on some shady website. I cannot be the only one to have done this and would even venture to say that there are quite a few other fans of the show/books who have done the same. The execs at HBO must have the numbers behind this trend, and they probably know just how much potential revenue they would be losing with the loss of GoT. I have not seen too much information regarding the DVD/BluRay sales since the first week of its release, but I know that GoT was at least on par with the best series HBO has offered, ever (True Blood was the highest, IIRC). These sales alone have more than made up the production costs for the show. What twisted sense of logic would the HBO execs have for throwing away all this revenue? A show cancellation is not going to happen this year or next. Now, after the third or fourth season... We will have to see how the show holds up after GRRM's story has progressed...

  • April 2, 2012, 5 p.m. CST

    We dont need your little "hints" Chest. Dont do it again.

    by dahveed1972

  • April 2, 2012, 5:04 p.m. CST

    same goes double for natalieportman. its called restraint, jerkoff.

    by dahveed1972

  • April 2, 2012, 5:07 p.m. CST

    No need to nitpick Episode 1 of GOT. **SPOILERS**

    by Sithtastic

    **WARNING: SPOILERS** There is a lot to fit in there. True the Cressen storyline sans Patchface and a lot of his internal thinking as to what he wanted to do, in order to save Stannis from Melisandre was cut, but aside from this, I am really hard pressed to nitpick all that much. Seriously, what's not to like? Robb Stark comes into his own and even shows up the Kingslayer for good measure. Tyrion strolls about with an attitude well beyond his stature and summarily embarrasses both Joffery and Cercei in the space of minutes. Robert's bastards are wiped, save for Gendry, which will set the stage for a man hunt in the following episodes. The stage has been set for Season 2 and given just how much D&D (Beinoff and Weiss) have to juggle, they should be applauded for being able to put this all on screen at such a high production value as it is. Given how severely cable television has changed, the mere fact that this show will not be going the way of say Rome (cancelled after Season 2) is a feat in and of itself.

  • April 2, 2012, 5:16 p.m. CST

    GoT Season 2 Ep. 1 Was Not Bad, Not Great Either...

    by some dude

    ... nothing was done very different than the books in terms of actual events in the story but it all felt a bit messy without greater direction. It seemed more like a bullet pointed list, we need to get this scene, this scene, and this scene in there and thats more important than overall flow of the greater story. The acting was good, so were the effects both dragons and direwolves looked great, loved the scene with Rob and Jaime in the cell. Acting was all very good for the most part but things didnt mesh well and nothing had much weight in the really important scenes like the poisoning of Cressen. Felt a rushed and too light for me. Im looking forward to the rest of the season, I hope it pulls things together better and gets things moving at a better clip.

  • April 2, 2012, 5:18 p.m. CST

    lol dahveed

    by zillabeast

    such bile....you get turned down by Hogan for an autograph as a kid or something?

  • April 2, 2012, 5:32 p.m. CST

    You Mirror my Thoughts Hawaiian. I'd call "very competent"

    by Crow3711

    It did the job, but it lacked passion. I really truly think all the problems were exacerbated by moving stannis to the middle and not the oPening. That sequence needed to be first and have a few extra minutes to make it as meaningful as it could have been. I agree it all felt very "bullet pointy" which makes me worry the whole season will be episodes with 1 to 2 scenes per character per week, which is very efficient, but boring.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:06 p.m. CST

    the key word is "kid", moron.

    by dahveed1972

  • April 2, 2012, 6:06 p.m. CST

    and thank you sith for proper etiquette.

    by dahveed1972

  • April 2, 2012, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Also I get people defend the graphic sex and nudity...

    by some dude

    ...but it really feels forced in there, especially when they're cutting time out of other far more interesting, relevant and important storylines. It wasnt too bad in this episode but the part in the whore house had me rolling my eyes a bit even if there was a meta moment when I was thinking exactly what was being said on screen about all the moaning and such being fake. Again the episode wasn't bad by far but some of the decisions made for this episode kind of baffle me... then again I give Hollywood and even HBO a lot of credit. Im pretty sure if someone tackled GoT with the same kind of passion and intelligence that David Simon did the Wire, well I'd be blown away. Not that these guys arent doing a good job but they should trust their audience a bit more and not need to toss things in our face or have characters blatantly spell out things.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:12 p.m. CST

    ultimate spider-man. meh.

    by palewook

    doesnt even compare to spectacular spiderman. marvel seriously screwed up. Josh Keaton was perfect as spiderman in spectacular. drake bell is awful as spiderman in the new ultimate series.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:13 p.m. CST

    That Whore House Scene was terrible and pointless

    by Crow3711

    Fuck the "subtext". That was gratuitous an pointless to the point of mockery. 15 seconds of the "teach whores how to fuck" storyline just to get some tits in there and then moving on to the purpose of the scene. It was so shoehorned in I was embarassed for the girl with her tits out. All the gratuitous nudity is season one was more meaningful than that "let's get some tits in the premiere" nonsense.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:30 p.m. CST

    What pissed me off about the Killing's S1 finale

    by Truxton Spangler

    wasn't that it ended on yet another twist (which would have been more effective if so many herrings hadn't been used already), or that didn't answer the central mystery. It was Sud's reaction. Evidently, she thought she's David Chase, and she's a long effing way from that. You don't get to break promises, or mess with the audience until you've earned it, and TK hadn't earned it. (for those with short memories, Rosie was supposed to be wrapped up by the end of S1, or early part of S2, segueing into a new case) Now, with the debut of S2, comes one more promise--at the end of *this* season, honest, as well as pulling the 'the show is not really about what you thought' card, made famous by Darlton. People, in this case the show's loyal audience, don't like being jerked around. A little contrition would have gone a long way, but Ms. CBS Procedural thought she was bigger than that. And now, after the first two hours of S2, we've got yet another conspiracy afoot. I really want to like the show, but I'm conspiracy-fatigued, and having to sit through more of Stan's anger management issues, Mitch's moping, etc. is sounding less and less appealing.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:48 p.m. CST

    lao_hu

    by gotilk

    Our household KEPT HBO this year for that very reason. To get GOT in HD. That should be their new slogan... GET GOT on HBO No but you make a good point. No matter how it competes in the next 3 years or so, they have to know that they have subscribers that would cancel immediately if they canceled GOT. And a lot of them. Yep... A LOT GET GOT.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:51 p.m. CST

    crow3711, nudity is so scary, isn't it!

    by Mattman

    They kill a baby at the end of that scene, and you're pissed about seeing some tits.

  • April 2, 2012, 6:51 p.m. CST

    On GOT scale and production value.

    by gotilk

    Improved so far. Did not look like any shortcuts were taken. Then again, I'm not reading the books. I have been peeking at them though, and will dive in soon. It seems like such a RICH experience. I'm looking forward to it. Anyone heard anything about American Gods? I've read that twice now and am eying the special edition that came out with the extra text in anticipation of the series.

  • More, it was a humorous scene, used to further contrast (and maybe to a degree relieve) the horror about to happen.

  • April 2, 2012, 7:38 p.m. CST

    Oh Yea, That Was TOTALLY My Argument Mattman

    by Crow3711

    Can you read? it's because it was pointless and held absolutely no meaning to the story other than a poor excuse to put some tits in the middle of the episode in order to *ahem* perk up the baser instincts of their fan base. Killing the babies was an incredibly important and necessary piece of plot. When this show does extreme violence, it does it really fucking well, because it always means something. When this show does nudity, it almost consistently does it really fucking poorly, because it means nothing and is an excuse to make exposition dialogue more interesting, or, as in last night, for truly no purpose at all. the only time it was done well was Dany's final shot of the season, having been re-birthed through fire, standing naked with her children. Jesus. DOn't fucking tell me what I'm offended by. I love nudity, just not when its done to satisfy the grunting buffoons and not to tell the story. the violence in this show is always done to tell the story. show all the tits you want, but find a way to do it so I'm not literally sitting there waiting for the show to continue while they moan and shriek. it signifies nothing. mattman is probably just too much of a dumbass to understand or appreciate the difference. he sees "boobies!"

  • April 2, 2012, 8:10 p.m. CST

    crow3711, the scene wasn't even that long

    by Mattman

    It was there to establish that Roz is instructing whores now. It also establishes that you couldn't find anything to complain about, so you went for the old gratuitous nudity trolling.

  • April 2, 2012, 8:11 p.m. CST

    Also, as someone else said... it's a brothel

    by Mattman

    Those tend to have tits.

  • April 2, 2012, 9:09 p.m. CST

    I didn't know the second episode was going to be on HBO GO!

    by gotilk

    Niiiiice.

  • SCANDAL!

  • April 2, 2012, 9:41 p.m. CST

    Yeah, it was a pointless scene ...

    by Robert Evans

    ... except for the whole important plot point about the dead king who fucked whores and fathered bastard children with better claims to the throne than the current king.

  • April 2, 2012, 10:01 p.m. CST

    gotlik: When?

    by Robert Evans

  • April 2, 2012, 10:04 p.m. CST

    You're all do sensitive to criticism

    by Crow3711

    I like the show. I've read all the books. It's not much fun to sit around and talk about all the great stuff. Sorry. It wasn't a perfect premiere. Get over it. Stannis and Mel were terrific. The direwolf was pretty sick. Davos was well played in his small moments. "power is power" was exceptionally played. Happy?

  • Love that one.

  • April 2, 2012, 10:24 p.m. CST

    That was a fun finale for a fun season of Californication

    by zillabeast

    I really enjoyed the heck outta season five. Great cameo too. Love me some Hank Moody!

  • It's interesting how much of an adjustment certain character's can be when going from book to screen with this series. Some (Lady Catelyn) took a lot of time to get used to while others (Joffrey) seemed straight off the page. In tonight's introduction to Dragonstone, I found myself thinking that Davos was coming off as older, more built, and more gruff than Stannis. The guy playing Davos strongly reminds me of Jean Reno, which is certainly not who I had imagined. We'll see if he can grow on me. I did think that the episode showed off a much larger and epic scope in comparison to a lot of season 1. I've been re-watching the first season on blu-ray, and as great as it is, it did lack a bit of gravitas in my eyes. The direwolf scenes and the broad, sweeping shots of a few of the environments did a lot to up the ante in this regard. Could not stop grinning like an idiot during the arrival of Grey Wind in the scene with Jamie Lannister. Very interested in hearing franksimms' take on Emilia Clarke tonight, as I felt that she looked noticeably more comfortable and less wooden in her brief time tonight. On a side note, are they hinting at some sort of chemistry/developing storyline between her and that bloodrider she sent out? That would be a mistake. Looking forward to next week's, though I am already worried about fitting everything into 10 episodes.

  • I watched it after watching all of season one over the last two days (literally finished season one and started in on the recorded season two premier) and was completely blown away by what a quality TV show it is. I understand how loving a book can make you expect to "see it" the same way you "see it" in your mind. But man, it would be really hard for the books to convince me that the TV show is bad after the fact. Don't think I've ever seen anything that looks and moves quite like this show. I'm really hoping it gets up into seasons four or five, because I really want to see what happens.

  • April 3, 2012, 3:11 a.m. CST

    I just watched episode 2...: ALL HAIL THE DEMONOID.....

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    Lots of nudity and a fair amount of Nookie. - Reigning MVP Tyrion is on form again and his scene with Varys is sublime. - More Arya and Gendry, and as you would expect they don't fail to deliver. - Theon, you hound-dog you. That dick of yours might just find itself in places you might not want.....like in your siblings. Although I understand that sort of thing is acceptable in Casterly Rock and....in the South. - The coolest Pirate since Jack Sparrow. Small scene but it was one of the most enjoyable ones. - Cersei and tyrion talking about their mother - deep. - Carice Van Houten..........MILFILICIOUS!!!! All Hail the Lord of Light!!!!! Booooooiiiiinnnnggggggggg!!!!! I can't wait for next week's episo..........oh Shit. I just watched it. Downside of watching the next episode in advance. Nothing to look forward to. I'll just watch it again, I guess.

  • i don't need to read the books to undrstand backgrounds because the sereos itself is doing a fantastic job. i don't need to know complex backgrounds to understand why and the motivation of the old man trie to poison the priestess. Again this episode reminded me wh i love th show so much. Fantastic. I see notjhing wrong, no short-coming, no flaws in this episode. it did it's purpose admirably. were more shows like this.

  • April 3, 2012, 6:43 a.m. CST

    EPIC

    by Ralph Scifaretto

    That's the only word that comes to my mind when thinking about yesterday's episode. It seems that the writers have learnt from Season 1 that in terms of pacing is much more effective to have longer scenes and then switch to another character or location rather than to go back and forth (like they did in Episode 3 of season 1, which is the weakest episode of them all). On the other hand, the only minor complaint that I had was that I would rather do like they did with Season 1 and put the prologue (Stannis, Davos and Mel's first appearance) at the beginning of the episode: Guess they thought it wasn't as strong as Season 1's prologue. On the other hand, I was amazed at the craftmanship of Taylor's direction. All the scenes were beautifully crafted. There were several scenes in season 1 that made me thought that this would be what it would look like if Ridley Scott directed a TV series, and that feeling was considerably amplified by this episode. For those complaining about the brothel's sequence: you are too focused on the tits and screams and not pay enough attention to the tragic intensity of that scene (how many times have you seen a baby get slained in a TV show?), and also to the superb ending montage of the episode: the music, the editing... just awesome. Can't wait for Episode 2.

  • April 3, 2012, 6:59 a.m. CST

    How did you guys see episode 2?

    by Tim

    I'm on HBO GO right now and there's only the first ep.

  • April 3, 2012, 7:10 a.m. CST

    The 2nd episode was on HBO Go for a few hours at best

    by V'Shael

    But long enough to be ripped encoded and uploaded to the internet.

  • April 3, 2012, 7:42 a.m. CST

    I still agree the nudity was eye rollingly silly, end of story...

    by some dude

    ... yeah its a whore house people but the nudity still felt crammed in there. Hell I even have a theory about how its crammed in there. When we get a few more episodes in, Dany is supposed to wear a dress called a Tokar that constantly has one of her breasts exposed. We are talking entire sections of book two she is wearing this to impress her possible "allies" That is a ton of nudity but guess what, I highly doubt we will see Dany wearing a Tokar like they had in the books. Hell of all the preview related material I have not seen a single still of anything of the sort. Of course they could be hiding it for later but Im willing to bet HBO wont have one of its biggest characters tit hanging out for entire "serious" scenes". That's just me. I felt the nudity in the show was often more a joke than anything else its compared to. We have Roz getting fucked a lot, a pointless character in of herself since she isnt in the books and doesnt really add anything to the stories except men like whores; something the books and real life got across quite fine. Then we have scenes like Little Finger watching and trying to show the whores how its done, another scene not from the book that felt like it was crammed in their to titillate. If anything the books, and the show for the most pat, dont really go for that so when they do... just feels a little hokey compared to the epic plot threads and such going on around it. Again if it was handled a bit better than an eighth grader with their first high speed internet connection I wouldnt care. That said still a good episode but I'm sure people will say Im a prude or some such nonsense.

  • What struck me in that scene is how he just went on talking and talking, completely unfazed by what was going on, even though he'd told them to do it. And yes, the nudity is often used humorously. I said that above. Other than Tyrion, that was the only funny scene in the episode, and they played it just before the most horrifying scene of the series so far. I thought it was great. Face it: brothels are an important component of this world. All they're doing is showing them realistically.

  • April 3, 2012, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Brothels are a big part of the world but Roz is still useless...

    by some dude

    ... and once again, when the books will give them good reason for tons of nudity of a very hot main character for entire sections of the book I'm betting HBO wont go for it. or the acrtess, just saying that is how we'd know this is "adult" nudity, and not just tits for tits sakes. And Im fine with tits for tits sakes but again, the book gives you ample opportunity for this, and yes pun intended.

  • April 3, 2012, 8:30 a.m. CST

    Well, what do you consider gratuitous?

    by bah

    Assuming for a minute that you're right and they don't have Dany nude for whole episodes -- I'd argue that nudity purely for the sake of sticking to the book's description of a dress is more gratuitous than a realistic portrayal of a brothel. And bringing the hotness of a particular actress belies your argument. Showing less-hot women naked is gratuitous?? Is this opposite day?

  • April 3, 2012, 8:40 a.m. CST

    Nudity in the series...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...there was not a moment when Dany was nude (at least that I can remember) that I found gratuitous. The initial scene with her brother, the bookend lovemaking scenes (can't actually remember if she was nude in both) and the scene at the end of the season all seemed natural to absolutely essential to the story. Could both of the lovemaking scenes been handled without nudity? I suppose so but I think that would have seemed more like aritifice and been ultimately more distracting than otherwise. The nudity at Dany's wedding was essential. It wasn't pretty which may be why no one has mentioned it. Nudity I hated? The parade of bouncing boobs into Tyrion's room in the first season actually made me a little afraid for the show. Pretty much all the rest fall somewhere in between. Personally, I liked Littlefinger's coaching of the prostitutes in season one. It was so revelatory of his character. Not really about sex at all. What happened to Ned but he began by knowing that Littlefinger was not to be trusted but was eventually coaxed, by little things, into putting his life into Littlefinger's hands. The reprise in this first episode? In terms of plot it gave Roz a character beat by having her repeat Littlefinger's words. It showed a change in her status in the brothel. I suppose those are worthwhile, depending on what happens in the future. But personally I come down more on Crow's side with this scene. I could have skipped a couple bobos and have them used that time to better effect. I still think the episode was great, though.

  • April 3, 2012, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Bobos...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...that's right. I said Bobos. And I meant it.

  • April 3, 2012, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Nudity in a brothel upsetting????

    by film11

    Good thing those upset by the scene don't watch SPARTACUS. They'd have coronaries!

  • Strange days, indeed. Most peculiar, mama.

  • April 3, 2012, 11:11 a.m. CST

    IT'S NOT UPSETTING GOD DAMNIT

    by Crow3711

    It's just fucking stupid. Some of us actually want to see a great show get made, a piece of artistic work with a fucking purpose. Some of you are just ingrates you love seeing "tits on screen! hurray!" sorry, I'm not as endlessly entertained by boobs as you all are. i got over that whole thing sometime around college. i love boobs, but they don't make a show good, and they don't make a scene meaningful. especially not when its some chubby ginger girls fat boobs. god you're all so fucking stupid you wouldn't know a great piece of work if it bit you in the ass. then again if there aren't any tits in it you probably wouldn't watch anyway.

  • April 3, 2012, 11:18 a.m. CST

    You certainly seem upset, crow.

    by Robert Evans

    Go ahead, lie back, and tell me about your mother. Dr. CHOP is in.

  • Why do you think this happened? Were there any traumatizing events during that period? What were you dreaming about?

  • April 3, 2012, 11:24 a.m. CST

    And why did you single out the *chubby ginger girl's fat boobs,* crow?

    by Robert Evans

    Is your traumatic college experience linked to a so-called chubby ginger girl with fat boobs?

  • April 3, 2012, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Link to view next weeks episode

    by heylookoverthere

  • April 3, 2012, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Arousal and Fascination Aren't The Same Thing

    by Crow3711

    Pubescent boys are fascinated. I just get boners.

  • April 3, 2012, 11:26 a.m. CST

    No, Doc Chop, I Don't Really Like Chubby Girls

    by Crow3711

    And gingers are incredibly hit and miss for me. They're either incredibly sexy, or just forgettable. And no, my mother is not a ginger.

  • April 3, 2012, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Interesting. You just get boners when you see the female breast.

    by Robert Evans

    Is this perhaps why you disagree with the presence of female breasts in Game of Thrones, crow? Do your boners distract you from enjoying the proceedings? Could it be that this is all linked to an especially frustrating encounter in your past in which you failed to be aroused by a female breast? Perhaps that is the traumatic event involving that chubby ginger girl back in college, and maybe you've been overcompensating ever since, often to the detriment of your concentration on and enjoyment of everyday life?

  • April 3, 2012, 11:32 a.m. CST

    So you don't like chubby girls, eh?

    by Robert Evans

    It's becoming clearer that your traumatic college-years event involved a chubby girl. Did she talk about you with the other girls? Was she unflattering?

  • April 3, 2012, 11:35 a.m. CST

    link

    by heylookoverthere

    http://www.tube plus.me/player/1972913/Game_of_Thrones/season_2/episode_2/The_Night_Lands/

  • but my goodness she has beautiful tits. i really loved her boobs. but i only want them featured on game of thrones if it serves a purpose.

  • April 3, 2012, 11:39 a.m. CST

    crow

    by Robert Evans

    There was nudity in the arts way before film and television, male and female. Hell, I've even been to an nude opera. You havent seen anything till you see nipples go rock hard when they hit the high notes. Do you go to a museum and giggle at the boobies in the paintings, as well. Or do you ogle only statues and try to dry hump them before getting kicked out? The only one who is making it less than an artistic piece of work is you. Christ, thank god you didnt sit next to me during Schindler's List. Spielberg, unleashes the nudity for the first time during a scene where prisoners were literally trying to stay alive and all your childish ass coudlve thought about was bush and tittays.

  • April 3, 2012, 11:40 a.m. CST

    I Think I Don't Like Chubby Girls Cause It Isn't Healthy

    by Crow3711

    I've never really been with a chubby girl, but I think I value taking care of ones self too much. its not hard to stay in shape, at least in my opinion, just takes some effort. being in good healthy shape is just sexy. being chubby isn't, everyone knows that. i don't have to be traumatized to enjoy healthy women. continue to deconstruct my posts. this is actually very entertaining.

  • April 3, 2012, 11:42 a.m. CST

    chubby girls

    by Robert Evans

    Back in the day, you wanted a fertile chubby girl. Great birthing hips and usually rich and decadent. Wealthy too. the skinny girls were the peasants.

  • April 3, 2012, 11:49 a.m. CST

    I'm Aware

    by Crow3711

    But the times they have a-changed.

  • April 3, 2012, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Whoa, dude. I know your posts, and you're better than that

    by bah

    People have given many reasons why they don't think the nudity in this episode was gratuitous, and I didn't see any that said "Who cares?! Boobs!" Frankly, the brothel scenes aren't usually hot, IMO. On the contrary, they're pretty skeevy. I think it's supposed to be skeevy, and I think Shae's description of the city supports that.

  • April 3, 2012, 11:55 a.m. CST

    Crow

    by Robert Evans

    So you would've accepted it if the girl had no hips and fat injected lips and big plump fake breasts?

  • April 3, 2012, 11:56 a.m. CST

    ewww @ Skinny Girls.

    by Stalkeye

    Somethin about those Rib cages that are reminicent of an H.R. Geiger painting. Thick does the trick. Full figured, doable but obese? hellz naw!

  • April 3, 2012, 11:57 a.m. CST

    Regarding Stannis and Davos casting

    by bah

    Stannis looks too old as it is. He's supposed to be YOUNGER than Robert. He sure doesn't look it, and the actor is eight years OLDER than the guy who played Robert. Davos is an old salt and cast well. The guy has grown children after all.

  • April 3, 2012, noon CST

    You guys are acting denser than usual...

    by some dude

    ... I love breasts and nudity. Violence too. However I just think GoT shoves it in there with little to no reasoning. They are pretty damn close to the book in terms of violence and fighting being used to highlight a scene, character, etc. The books don't even describe most fight in detail but when they do, there is a purpose, there is context and.more then tits in a whore house. We see jaimie fight breanne for a reason, we see jon snow fight rattleshort after the burning at the wall for a reason. Again the series provides ample time for nudity. Also Roz sucks and is a pointless addition with tits.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:04 p.m. CST

    No, That's The Entire Point

    by Crow3711

    I wouldn't have liked it no matter what. Because the scene was just repeating something they had already done last season, less effectively, and then going into the meat of the scene, with the whores and the baby and the killing. This has become way too big of a deal, clearly, but it was artistic, or thematic, or relevant. It was just some girls boobs and moaning. To turn guys on. So they keep watching. It is what it is, and some of us are bothered by it. Am I going to stop watching? Of course not. Have other shows been much more gratuitous with useless nudity? Of course. But it was silly then too. I don't care how hot the girl is, it's not entertainment. I might enjoy it on a base level, but I am capable of separating that feeling from my thoughts about the show as a dramatic work. Nudity, at its best, in the dramatic visual medium, is used to highlight a characters humanity. To literally strip them down and show them bare. Great nudity in this show is going to come in a few seasons when (mild spoilers) a certain character has to take a certain walk of shame. It was even written to drive the point home about what's happening with the CHARACTER. not just an excuse to have a sexy lady walk around in her birthday suit. It doesn't take a genius to recognize the difference and separate the enjoyment of it sexually from to the dislike of it artistically when its abused and not used for its real artistic purpose. Dany standing naked with the dragons was damned effective. And it was fucking hot. You can have your cake and eat it too. But jamming tits into every episode of this show is a mistake, and it opens the show to easy criticism. Get the fuck over it. When nudity is used for the express purpose of sexualizing a character its usually pointless. Some people here also should go watch Homeland for a great example of sexy nudity while revealing character. Morena Baccarin is a beautiful woman, but those scenes where you see her naked aren't in the show just so you can see her naked. It's just a part of the scene. How can I be more clear? Nudity is for humanity, rebirth, vulnerability, etc. Not "hey man, that scene was hot, and they like...sort of talked about power and manipulation. you know...sort of" No. That's crap, and I'll criticize them for pandering to the audience by doing it over and over and OVER AGAIN every episode. Do I need to go on or is choppah or someone else going to subvert this post, twist my meaning, and say that I'm a prude or don't like girls again? Because in my opinion, the more you fuckers do that, the more my point is proven anyways.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Crow

    by Robert Evans

    If the point was to give me an erection--the fifteen second moan and groan of a slightly chubby girl rubbing on a guy ain't gonna cut it.. So yer argument that it was shoehorned to titillate is moot. It was there for a reason strictly regarding the plot, as mentioned by many others as well as myself above If you're afraid of the female form, perhaps try Two and a Half Men..

  • It was funny, possibly even self-parodying. She's moaning and the madam scolds her for sounding stupid. Funny! And as I said, that's in extremely sharp contrast to what comes immediately after. Maybe I'm too old or too married or something, but show of hands: who found that scene to be a turn-on?

  • April 3, 2012, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Once Again, I Don't think You Read my Post. But Okay. I'm Done

    by Crow3711

    you guys win. the scene was brilliant and the nudity was done just right. moving on with the show...

  • April 3, 2012, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Mark Strong would have been an awesome stannis...

    by some dude

    Not sure about their choice for Davos or melisandre, both seem very different than what I expected to see.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST

    @bah

    by Patrick

    While I do somewhat agree with your assessment of Stannis' age in relation to his late, older brother Robert, I think Davos was accurately cast. The character has something like 5 sons, two of which are ship captains and one is a squire to Stannis. I always imagined Davos to be of an age similar to, or even older than, Stannis.

  • you could just stare at the boobs. the dialogue was utterly useless until the girl walked away and moved into the next room, where the real scene happened. i can't believe i'm still talking about this. stare at the boobs, pointless dialogue, then the scene. thats criticizable. it doesn't ruin the show. its always so fucking extreme in this place.

  • You could stop defending it like psychos and just objectively admit while you didn't mind it, it didn't bother you, its not like it was best scene, or even a particularly effective 15 seconds of the show. that's what were talking about. I'm not shitting on the show, its fucking brilliant most of the time. but its okay to say those 15 seconds were kind of stupid. i feel like I'm being pretty reasonable, and it would be ok for you to say, you know, it didn't bother me, but i definitely know it wasn't the best possible use of those 15 seconds and it wasn't a particularly clever or interesting use of nudity on screen. this is a show. that's how you're supposed to talk about it.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:18 p.m. CST

    But Choppah will Probably Retort With....

    by Crow3711

    "Oh the old, I'm being erasable argument to calm the masses and get everyone to stop being mean to you. are you gonna cry crow?" because he's acting like a child who argues with senseless semantics instead of actually discussing the issue. attacking the mode of argument is about as effective as mooning me.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:19 p.m. CST

    reasonable argument* so many typos today

    by Crow3711

    I'm ashamed.

  • I'm not sure what you're saying I'm 'exactly right' about. I thought it was a good scene. Not there were boobs. Because it was well-timed, very brief comic relief, set in the place where the action was about to happen, and designed to enhance the horror that followed. If all you took away was 'naked girl', then, yeah, I guess I'm not going to change your mind about it.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:23 p.m. CST

    I think lisab and crow should go on a date

    by Robert Evans

    LisaB is all about ensuring the public gets what it doesn't want and Crow sure as fuck doesn't want to see boobies. Another match made at eChopHarmony

  • April 3, 2012, 12:24 p.m. CST

    Fine. Brilliant, deft use of nudity? Maybe not.

    by bah

    But again: brothel! I think it would have been silly and puritanical to *not* have them naked. Like the PG-13 post-coital bedsheet that covers the woman's chest while exposing the man's. If anything was gratuitous in the episode it was the smear the knight left at the beginning. That, I would argue, was gore for gore's sake.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:24 p.m. CST

    Interesting, crow. You seem to be really angered by this.

    by Robert Evans

    Your most prominent defense mechanism seems to be projection. Why do you think this is?

  • April 3, 2012, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Guys it was a shitty intro to a vital scene, get over it.

    by some dude

    I'm not sure what is more ludicrous, that crow has to keep repeating his point or that you guys keep on harping on it with semantics and ignorant retorts.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Gentlemen...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I believed I have already established in this thread that they are to be called bobos. Crow and Stallion, no one thinks you're being prudes. Some folks are teasing you and others are honestly disagreeing. I never thought I'd say this, but I'm tired of talking about bobos. I also think I know what is at the root of what both of you are saying. You'll tell me if I'm wrong. GOT has a lot of this same window dressing in the novels. But they are rarely dwelt on or described. Martin mentions the couplings, for instance, at Dany's wedding, but it's a couple sentences in a big scene. In the series the camera lingers and makes these things more of the focus of the scene than you saw them in your head. That's fair. But so is this. True Blood was HBO's biggest hit since the Sopranos because it promised sex in every episode and put that sex out front and center (and by the way, maybe we'd have had a couple more seasons of Rome if they'd made it clear they had sex in every episode instead of always concentrating on intrigue). GOT was, at least before it made it onto the air, an extremely risky proposition. Expensive literary fantasy without even any hobbits or fairies to cushion the blow. So, bobos. You're probably going to get them in every episode, but certainly in at least most of them. And sometimes it gets on my nerves, too, but then I'm in my forties and terminally married so maybe my opinion on this has less weight. But if they keep making this show as good as they have been making it so far I am more than willing to see some boobs, even in scenes where I don't think they're needed, and even if they make a short scene just for the purpose of fitting them in.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Well put, bah.

    by Robert Evans

    Scenes like that may be *pointless* from a straight plot perspective (although I argue that it's not pointless from a thematic perspective; it demonstrates that with the right kind of cunning, even whores can elevate themselves in King's Landing), but they add texture and dimension to the world. Imagine if the scene just included the guard just storming in and killing the baby. That's horrific enough, but following a funny, bawdy scene makes it even moreso. Contrasts, even the most violent and sudden kind, make for great drama.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:29 p.m. CST

    Crow, don't ever go to Amsterdam

    by Mattman

    The lack of deftness in the nudity will just piss you off.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:30 p.m. CST

    NEWSFLASH!!!

    by JaredP

    the killing premieres to low ratings. HA!!!

  • April 3, 2012, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Ha, Okay That Was Actually Funny mattman

    by Crow3711

  • April 3, 2012, 12:31 p.m. CST

    hawaiian_stallion, it appears you can't let go of it, either.

    by Robert Evans

    If you want others to get over it, perhaps you should set a better example? Why do you think you keep getting tangled up in this discussion? Does it fulfill some innate need? Dr. CHOP is in, and he's listening.

  • It's one thing to end your episodes with cliffhangers, but it's another to set up a cliffhanger that will be completely reversed in the following episode. The Killing pretty much lied to its audience in every episode, and now it's being justly rewarded. I should say that I did watch the season premiere, if only because Mrs. CHOPPAH wanted to watch. It doesn't look like anything has changed. In fact, it's grown more absurd since the end of last season, to the point of hilarity.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:39 p.m. CST

    This Just In: Crow and Chop See Eye to Eye on The Killing

    by Crow3711

    The red herrings were entirely out of control last season, and veena sud is a filthy liar. That show didn't deserve season 2. Rubicon did. That's one thing I probably do need to talk to Doc Chop about. I am traumatized by that.

  • But not *that* curious.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:45 p.m. CST

    I caved and watched episode 2 of GoT

    by Volllllume3

    Fuck, I shouldn't have done that :(

  • April 3, 2012, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Rubicon: Never got around to that, alas.

    by Robert Evans

    Too bad, really, since I love a corking good conspiracy thriller. I may have to give its only season a look. Incidentally, The Killing is trying so hard to become a conspiracy thriller, but it's paced and structured more like ABC Family's Pretty Little Liars (damn my wife and daughters for subjecting me to this crap!), but with gritty, cable-TV production values.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:47 p.m. CST

    The key to watching The Killing, mattman, is understanding that

    by Robert Evans

    everything *revealed* at the end of a previous episode is bullshit, and that the exact opposite is true.

  • That's the only way i can possibly imagine the first season being enjoyable, because then you can go through and really know what is total bullshit and what isn't. If I hadn't already watched the terrible, terrible first season, I would do exactly that. Knowing the show isn't good would give me permission to ruin the mystery and have my initial viewing with my knowledge of a second viewing, and really rip into what's going on, how bad they lied, what was and wasn't planned, etc.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Yikes, The Killing sounds frustrating

    by Mattman

  • So that's kind of funny. My stance for the last time: It was a comic prelude that took place in a brothel. Because it was in a brothel, it was not gratuitous or otherwise wrong for there to be nudity in the scene. I do not think the nudity was important or essential to the plot. However, I also do not believe the scene was added just to add some nudity. I think it was fully appropriate for the setting.

  • only then to have it turned around COMPLETELY in the next scene.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:55 p.m. CST

    choppah...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...yesterday I got to watch Lie To Me. No, not the Tim Roth procedural. A Korean melodrama. My wife has fallen in love with them. This is our second one, after Boys for Flowers. They have lots of episodes, they are indistinguishable, and they're on Netflix, so they're waiting to get you.

  • April 3, 2012, 12:55 p.m. CST

    Hey remember those Useless tits in the first episode...

    by some dude

    ... I'm hoping that certain character quirks aren't forgotten or at least elaborated on like Davos's cut off fingers

  • April 3, 2012, 12:56 p.m. CST

    red ned lynch

    by Robert Evans

    I'll do my best to hide that from my wife's eyes.

  • Too distracted by bobos. Okay, I'll make nice now.

  • April 3, 2012, 1 p.m. CST

    stallion: I do remember something around Davos' neck. Here's a pic

    by Robert Evans

    http://elbrooklyntaco.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/davos-seaworth.jpg That looks like a pouch to me.

  • April 3, 2012, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Game of Thrones is not flawed in the way chaseguy17 claims

    by Bernie Margolis

    The main flaw is Joffery's rise to power. It just isn't believable. For it to be believable you have to imagine that when somebody becomes king, they have absolute mind control over all of the guards and soldiers of the kingdom. This is a 13 year old kid who from the second he has taken command he has made his solders unquestionably murder lords, women and babies. Nobody questions him. The soldiers act without hesitation or morals. Where is their fear coming from? Joffery has no friends in high places that support him.

  • April 3, 2012, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Game of Thrones is not flawed in the way chaseguy17 claims

    by Bernie Margolis

    Well, I just tried to quote chaseguy17 and the forums pretty much truncated all the comments I made to refute his statement. So here's another attempt: 1)He didn't "rise" to power; he inherited it from his father. That's generally how monarchies work. 2)His soldiers carry out his orders because they know that if they could disobey them they could wind up on the receiving end of Joffrey's brutality next. 3)He has his mother's support, and that gives him his grandfather's support. Joffrey's grandfather, Tywin Lannister, is the richest and most powerful lord in the seven kingdoms, so that's all he needs.

  • April 3, 2012, 1:26 p.m. CST

    *Joffrey has no friends in high places that support him.*

    by Robert Evans

    Except his mother the queen, the grand maester, the kingdom's treasurer, the kingsguard, the king's justice, his personal bodyguard and his grandfather, who happens to be the richest, most powerful warden in the entire kingdom. And, yes, some of those only support him because it's better for their schemes, which reflects one of the bigger themes of the show. Power is where people choose to see it.

  • April 3, 2012, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Joffery has no friends in high places that support him?

    by BangoSkank

    Aside from his father, the richest and most ruthless bastard in the seven kingdoms? A man who has 10,000 men and one mountain at his beck and call? And, aside from the fact that was how things had been done for thousands of years, the crown going from father to son? Yeah. Makes no sense at all.

  • April 3, 2012, 1:29 p.m. CST

    natalieportmansyummyafterbirth asking for a ban

    by Bernie Margolis

    His post, titled, "Hey, can someone answer this for me... new to the TV Show" makes statements about events that have not transpired in the television series. I won't address the issue of whether or not they are correct, but regardless of their authenticity they are potentially spoilerific and have no place in a forum discussing an on-going television series.

  • April 3, 2012, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Meant to say grandfather, not father, above....

    by BangoSkank

    ...and because of the fuck-up talkbacks, I was arguing with someone making the same point. FIX THE FUCKING TALKBACKS.

  • April 3, 2012, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Ugh, I don't even feel like explaining why chase guy is wrong

    by Crow3711

    Everyone is already doing a fine job and the post would be so long. Needless to say, he's just flat out incorrect. In that world, it's entirely scary and believable

  • Look up Caligula if you don't think people would stand for an insane, bloodthirsty king. 'Once at some games at which he was presiding, he ordered his guards to throw an entire section of the crowd into the arena during intermission to be eaten by animals because there were no criminals to be prosecuted and he was bored.' (wikipedia)

  • April 3, 2012, 1:52 p.m. CST

    bah, bringing up Caligula is a good way to get back to bobos.

    by Robert Evans

  • April 3, 2012, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Fucking talkback truncator!

    by Robert Evans

  • April 3, 2012, 3:13 p.m. CST

    @ crow & red ned lynch

    by The Goat

    Just so you know, the burning of the seven did not occur in the prologue, it was in Davos's 1st chapter, which was the 11th chapter in the book. So yeah, everything you said about the prologue being moved was wrong. & it worked perfectly as done on the show.

  • April 3, 2012, 3:30 p.m. CST

    The Goat...

    by some dude

    ... Maester Cressen and the events surrounding his poisoning only take place in the prologue.

  • April 3, 2012, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Speaking of Caligula

    by The Goat

    Check out this actual statue of him. Scary, no? Also, there's a rumor now that all of the episodes will be released early on HBOGo in Holland like Ep 2 was.

  • April 3, 2012, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Oh sorry, here's the pic I was talking about

    by The Goat

  • April 3, 2012, 3:47 p.m. CST

    One more try

    by The Goat

    shittyass board h**p://i43.tinypic.com/164fq1.jpg

  • April 3, 2012, 4:04 p.m. CST

    @ hawaiian stallion

    by The Goat

    Yes, I know, but they were saying it was sooooo important to keep the prologue at the beginning of the episode/season, because the burning of the Seven and the change of religions was such an important theme for the season. And, of course, the burning of the Seven isn't actually in the prologue, so there goes that argument. I think it was much smarter to start by re-introducing the TV-only audience to familiar characters rather than starting will brand new ones. Yes, GRRM started the book off with new characters, but back then he only did one-off POVs in the prologues, so it makes sense. In fact, through all five books the only one-off POV aside from Prologues/Epilogues is Ser Aerys. Everyone else has had at least two chapters.

  • That's going to be fun to read, knowing they're DOOMED. The epilogue of book five came close.

  • April 3, 2012, 4:12 p.m. CST

    And that's not a spoiler

    by bah

    You'll see the pattern by the time you're on chapter one of the second book.

  • April 3, 2012, 4:54 p.m. CST

    By the way I'd like to add

    by gotilk

    that a a nice chubby ginger rocks my world. Or brunette. The chubby part doesn't matter to me one way or the other. There's something very sexy about a little belly though. Am I weird or did anyone else find the sort of plain looking lady on the ship sexy? She reminded me of a sweet bookworm-type I used to *know*. *Sigh* I have weird taste I guess. I think I was supposed to think she was ugly.

  • April 3, 2012, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Sorry about not explaining how I watched episode 2 earlier.

    by gotilk

    I was pretty busy yesterday. But I watched it on HBO GO and when I went back to re-watch it, it was GONE. weird.

  • April 3, 2012, 6:41 p.m. CST

    Red Shirt Prologues...

    by Patrick

    I swear I thought about this the other day while reading the forums. I can definitely see GRRM fucking with the readers by using Tyrion as a prologue POV in one of the next two books, only to have Tyrion come away from it alive. The catch being that you do not find out until midway through the book. Let's be frank, this little "fake death" technique has become more the rule than the exception in later books. While I do not particularly appreciate it, this sort of thing makes it practically impossible to second-guess GRRM. The prologues, however, have so far remained untouched by any fake deaths. If we see Tyrion in the prologue POV, I would immediate check to see if Tyrion is seen as a POV title throughout the rest of that book. If I did not see him, I would be hard-pressed to continue after reading his demise. He is, by far, the greatest source of humor in the books, even now.

  • April 3, 2012, 7:01 p.m. CST

    Just watched episode 2. Much better!

    by some dude

    Lots of really good stuff in there, some of the added scenes were interesting but the stuff straight out of the book was awesome! Meeting the Greyjoys and seeing the Iron Islands especially cool, also more Stannis and Davos is never a bad thing. The ending is going to probably make some people mad but I enjoyed it for what it was. It was great watching the show with people who have never read the books and getting their reactions to things.

  • April 3, 2012, 8:07 p.m. CST

    The one defense I would bring up for The Killing...

    by BlackBauer0320

    Undoubtedly, it has more than its fair share of red herrings. But clearly the show is embracing this, and not chalking it up to being a "cheap" draw for its audience. It WANTS to frustrate you. Furthermore, in my eyes it was a GIVEN that they were leading folks down a false path for several episodes. There were times when all signs would be pointing to 'x' character, but it was only the 3rd or 4th episode of the season. Obviously, that was not going to be the case (pun intended).

  • April 3, 2012, 8:21 p.m. CST

    i know, choppah

    by JaredP

    the show isn't that great any way. it's no breaking bad. the writing sucks dick!!!

  • April 3, 2012, 9:06 p.m. CST

    If you think Ros is pointless, you don't know shit.

    by Sardonic

    EVERY single scene of hers in the last season (yes, even the admittedly gratuitous lesiban ass-fingering scene) was tailor-made for one specific purpose: introducing characters and fleshing out the world. She was in Tyrion's introduction, she was in Theon's first big scene where we learned about his history, she was in the Littlefinger scene where we learned his VERY important history, and she was in Pycelle's scene, where we learned about King Aerys and also that Pycelle isn't just a bumbling fool like he seems, but yet another player in the game. If you think Ros is pointless, then you haven't been paying enough attention.

  • April 3, 2012, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Uhhh Ros is pointless because we get all that info anyway...

    by some dude

    ...simple as that. I didnt even realize she was actually a character and not just one of many whores.

  • April 3, 2012, 10:45 p.m. CST

    Y'all are taking GoT MUCH too seriously

    by Jaka

    Compare it to 95% (at least) of everything else on TV and it stomps all over it. I'm not saying a heavy discourse is a bad thing, but I do think quite a few people need to just relax and enjoy the ride a bit. Too much picking every single minute detail apart destroys much of the enjoyment of just watching the show. My opinion, of course.

  • April 3, 2012, 11 p.m. CST

    Hawaiin, where did you see episode 2 now??

    by Tim

  • April 4, 2012, 12:22 a.m. CST

    Episode 2 of Thrones was fucking fantastic

    by Mattman

    I thought the first episode was great, but the second one just floored me. The humor was great. Those final scenes were chilling.

  • April 4, 2012, 1:26 a.m. CST

    @dioxholsters_ghost "Are you touched, boy!?"

    by The Goat

    Yeah, the NYT gave it a bad review, but everyone else loved it. Ep 1 has an 88 on metacritic (26 reviews), despite the 40 it got from the NYT, which was by far the lowest. It got 100 from LA Times, Chicago Sun-Times, SF Chronicle, People, Hollywood Reporter, New York Post, and at least 90 from WSJ, Variety, Huff Post and EW.

  • April 4, 2012, 2:04 a.m. CST

    therawbeatsdotcom

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    Torrent is your friend.

  • April 4, 2012, 4:15 a.m. CST

    Episode 2 of Game of Thrones! Holy shit balls.

    by V'Shael

    Did you pay the iron price, or the gold? I said nothing about the Lannisters. Fucking awesome. And Theon... you horn dog. Tyrion continues to steal the show, though Varys was great and suitably slimy. Tyrion gets his first hints that Cersei truely hates him, and Joffrey might be more of an evil little shit than even he suspected. 50 minutes just flew by.

  • Also, I told my girl last night that whenever she acts like a cold heartless bitch for no reason, I'm calling her "Fat Betty" from now on.

  • April 4, 2012, 7:46 a.m. CST

    The nudity might be pointless ... but I love it

    by Itchy

    Something raw and visceral about the whole show. And it works, too, because every week after watching the show, my wife wants to fuck like a madwoman.

  • April 4, 2012, 7:49 a.m. CST

    MadMen is "boring and pretentious"...

    by NightArrows

    ...if you're a fucking idiot. Leave it to those of us with the brains and sense to enjoy it. Michael Bay has a wonderful catalogue of shit for you to blink your ADD-addled eyes at.

  • April 4, 2012, 8:56 a.m. CST

    the goat...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...actually I didn't say it was soooo important. I said it was clear they thought giving the viewers a new look at all the familiar characters was most important but agreed with Crow that the opening he wanted could have served much the same purpose, at least in terms of updating everyone as to where some of the key players were and what they were doing if the beach was followed immediately with the letter writing. And I stand by that. I don't mind being criticized, but at least read my posts first. I know they can be longwinded and boring, but they're mine.

  • April 4, 2012, 10:45 a.m. CST

    re: Ros *spoilers*

    by skycrapper

    She's filling the Alayaya and Chataya roles from the the books. Just you watch. That's what Tyrion's, I will hurt you for this, line is regarding.

  • April 4, 2012, 11:58 a.m. CST

    skycrapper_deuce

    by heylookoverthere

    It's been a while since I read clash of kings, but since they eliminated the whole "Tyrion has to sneek into the brothel and then through a secret passage to get to Shae" thing, why would they need anyone to take Alayaya/Chatatya's place?

  • April 4, 2012, 12:11 p.m. CST

    heylookoverthere *SPOILERS*

    by skycrapper

    Cersei still has to punish the wrong whore.

  • April 4, 2012, 12:13 p.m. CST

    The ending of ep 2 left me with Whadefuck..?

    by Stalkeye

    Didn't really see that one coming. Only question that remains until ep 3 would be, is he, or isn't he. (If those who saw said ending get what I mean.) the guy who plays Davos looks alot like Jean Reno (The Professional) oh, and the scene in which his ally mentions how he would fuck the Queen is hysterical. Not bad so far.

  • However, if it happens more than thrice, your cable provider may be forced to give up your info; IP Address,name and addy. Suffice to say, that you shouldnt worry about doing Jail time if caught. however, be prepared to pay a hefty fine. These fuckers are cracking down on piracy as three prominent torrent sites have been shut down previouisly. (In thier case The moderaters of said sites either had to pay or spend time in the pokey.) so yeah, it's still risky unless you're equipped with Norton Ghost. (0:,

  • April 4, 2012, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Yeah I guess *spoilers*

    by heylookoverthere

    but what's the connection between Tyrion and Ros other than that he fucked her once up in winterfell? Ros arrived in kings landing well before Tyrion (Pycelle and Littlefinger at least are aware of this.) and works in a brothel that Tyrion has no reason to ever set foot in on the show. Are you speculating about this or you actually know somehow that Cersi has ros beaten/worse? Maybe Cersi get's the right whore in the show?

  • April 4, 2012, 12:37 p.m. CST

    @ skycrapper_deuce, re: Ros **Spoilers**

    by jim

    You are correct ("Cersei still has to punish the wrong whore."), but unless Tyrion moves Shae into the brothel, or uses the brothel as a decoy to seeing Shae, it doesn't make much sense for Cersei to confuse the two. One's a madam in a brothel, the other is secretly living in the Hand's chambers (or,if they include those characters, serving Lady Tanda's daughter). As it stands right now there isn't anything to connect them. But maybe that will change in the next few episodes.

  • April 4, 2012, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Big jim *Minor shae spoiler for this season*

    by heylookoverthere

    I read that they make her Sana's servant since there is no lollys stokeworth.

  • April 4, 2012, 1:40 p.m. CST

    Episode 2 link

    by heylookoverthere

    www.tube plus.me/player/1972913/Game_of_Thrones/season_2/episode_2/The_Night_Lands/ Take out the space. Also I have no idea what you mean about a spoiler for next season

  • April 4, 2012, 1:48 p.m. CST

    The Riot Won't Be The Same Without Lollys

    by Crow3711

    But I guess overall it doesn't make that big of a difference. Just that whole scene was so horrific in the books, and Sansa, or even cersei, could have easily ended up as lollys did...i mean, it was pretty brutal the way they described it after. plus she's became totally fucked in the head and despondent for life...i would have liked to see that. oh well

  • April 4, 2012, 1:49 p.m. CST

    You Watch Episode 2 Here:

    by Crow3711

    http://www.yourtvseri.es/game-of-thrones/season-02-episode-02-the-night-lands/ and click on the link that says free. its good quality. but I'm not watching it myself, no point in watching now and then having to wait even longer for the third episode. thats just silly. but for those who want to, there it is.

  • April 4, 2012, 1:50 p.m. CST

    There a few reasons I think they are featuring Ros as Alayaya

    by skycrapper

    The hard evidence is the scene that has Varys discover Shea. Tyrion will be forced to move her anyways. Also there's a scene in the preview of Littlefinger comforting a shaken Ros. The catacombs are still in play for Tyrion. We've seen them in the previews as well. Tyrion line is still in about one day hurting Cersei... joy will turn to ashes and all that. In the book that was about Alayaya. It makes the most sense. Alayaya and Chataya were minor characters for sure but they had an important role in the books and we know they weren't cast for the show.

  • April 4, 2012, 1:59 p.m. CST

    skycrapper *still spoilers*

    by heylookoverthere

    Well in the books Varys is the one who helps Tyrion hide Shae and later get her a job, so it shouldn't matter that Varys discovered her. As for the scene of littlefinger comforting Ros, she did just witness a baby murder.

  • April 4, 2012, 2 p.m. CST

    You're probably still be right

    by heylookoverthere

    I'm mostly just arguing cause I'm bored at work.

  • April 4, 2012, 2:18 p.m. CST

    Yes she did but

    by skycrapper

    In the clip he's talking about royalty having the least class or somthing like that. Also There was also a small clip of Joffery roughing Ros up a bit. So maybe Cersei brings Joff in on it a bit. I don't know for sure but this is the way I think things will go. Shea is way too important to the events of book 3 to stray away from her role very much. So I'm sure she'll be hidden away from the tower of the hand at some point.

  • April 4, 2012, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Because The Men Would Rape Them When They Get Bored

    by Crow3711

    And the nights watch needs to be focused, free from distractions, and free from the possibility of their loyalties being split when shit hits the fan. You can't defend the realms of men from the risen dead and white walkers when you're more worried about your own family. all those reasons and more

  • April 4, 2012, 3:36 p.m. CST

    I like Ros... she's a fly on the wall

    by Mattman

    Serves as a spy for the audience.

  • Rapists and murderers and thieves who were sent there in lieu of going to prison for the rest of their lives and having their dicks cut off. Keep your dick, but never use it again freezing your ass off in the at the frozen wall, where theres nothing to steal, no reason to kill, and no one to rape. It's a place for people with absolutely no other place in the world. Any man can have a place on the wall.

  • April 4, 2012, 4:59 p.m. CST

    The Kingsguard can't take wives either

    by Mattman

    No distractions from a lifelong duty to serve their king. This is part of the reason why Jaime prods at Jon Snow for wanting to join the wall; he's partially projecting his resentment of his own choice. Although the Kingsguard can still have have sex. And the men of the nightswatch often sneak off to the whorehouse in Molestown, which is pretty much there to accomodate them, unofficially.

  • April 4, 2012, 6:13 p.m. CST

    diox

    by tye dye mann

    It's interesting that you mention Ros ending up at the Wall. I was thinking about just that the other night. It could very well happen.Her fortunes have changed dramatically since she was introduced in the first episode, so it is not out of the realm of possibility that the upcoming events in King's Landing would force her to flee, possibly to return North believing it to be safer, where she winds up whoring in Moll Town. SPOILER Which would mean that she would take refuge at Castle Black with everyone else when the Wildlings who scale the wall attack. But since Littlefinger seems to have taken a liking to her, it would be more likely that she returns North by another route, assuming she survives the season.

  • April 4, 2012, 9:40 p.m. CST

    People should at least let the season play out

    by heylookoverthere

    and see what happens with Ros before saying she's "pointless" or a waste of time.

  • April 4, 2012, 11:13 p.m. CST

    So much whining over little fucking details

    by Mattman

    And you don't even know Ros' purpose in the story yet. Jesus, what a bunch of bitches.

  • April 4, 2012, 11:13 p.m. CST

    It wears on a man to be surrounded by so many bitches

    by Mattman

  • April 4, 2012, 11:13 p.m. CST

    Bitch bitch fucking bitch

    by Mattman

  • April 4, 2012, 11:13 p.m. CST

    Too much sex" "Too many redheads" "Tits make me uncomfortable

    by Mattman

    In the words of Denis Leary... SHUT THE FUCK UP.

  • April 4, 2012, 11:24 p.m. CST

    Oh, and the best complaint of all: "Monarchies aren't realistic"

    by Mattman

    Nice one, Chaseguy. You win the biggest retard award. Step up, and be sure to thank God, without whom you are nothing.

  • It's like I'm playin Poker with my brother's kids or somethin'.

  • April 5, 2012, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Balon Greyjoy's fireplace is fucking sick!!!!

    by Tim

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