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‘Nothing Matters But How It Ends!!’ The Fabulous New 22-Minute Promo For Season Two Of HBO's GAME OF THRONES!!
TV has suddenly gotten great again, with “Downton Abbey,” “Mad Men” and “Game of Thrones” to remind us of the days when great hourlongs like “Buffy” and “West Wing” and “Alias” and “The Wire” ruled the airwaves.
I could scarcely be more excited about the arrival of the “Thrones” second season eight days hence, and then HBO gives us this:
April 1, baby.
Tarantino’s Favorite Movie Of The Last Two Decades!! On Blu-ray Now!!
Readers Talkback
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They will bend the knee, or I will destroy them.
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that shit was funny
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I'm going to classify it as my favorite show of all time. I just recently re-watched it and it was even better than I remember, which is insane because I remember it being crazy awesome!
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That shit isn't worthy of being in the same breath as GoT. You Yanks love that crap for some reason.....
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pftthahaha heee heee hooo hooo haaaa haaaaa
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Here's a *fantastic* fan-assembled reintroduction to many of the notable figures of the first season: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfCpJtMeM0o&list=PL7CDCFF4AA6D56FFE . Between that and the 22 minute video that Hercules links above I am ready for the show to get going again. Among the many things that I'm looking forward to this season will be seeing how Tyrion handles those crafty buggers on the King's council.
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March 24, 2012, 6:09 a.m. CST
It's quite good, but people really feel it's the best they've ever seen?
by SiouxCitySarsaparilla
Not saying it doesn't have potential, sure it does, but I'm a little surprised to see folk already saying it supplants their favourite shows of all time. And not because I have a horse in the race. I'd be curious to know, the fans that say this is already the best ever, what did you relegate to number two, and how many years did it run? Obviously there's no right or wrong opinion when it comes to what you enjoy. Looking forward to season two myself. I thought Boardwalk Empire improved a lot for its second run, so if Game of Thrones hits full maturity too, it'll be a treat I'm sure. For me, the best HBO series to date were Deadwood, The Sopranos, and The Wire. On network TV, I liked LOST. If we include shows that had short runs, Twin Peaks, My So Called Life, and Freaks and Geeks all prove that greatness is possible from the get-go. I'll leave sitcoms for another thread. Where do people feel Mad Men and Breaking Bad will settle once they finish their run? I think maybe there are two discussions to be had. How much the world a series creates appeals to you, and how well the show executes its potential over a sustained run. The all time greats start strong and have room to improve in the middle seasons. Not everything makes it, and something like My So Called Life might even be perfect for only having that short run, because it sort of captures how temporary and wonderful it can be, being that age, before you start to identify with the adults.
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March 24, 2012, 6:48 a.m. CST
Re-re-re-re-listening to 'Clash of Kings' audio (read by the magnificent Roy Dotrice) as a bridge this week...
by obijuanmartinez
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March 24, 2012, 7:26 a.m. CST
Did Herc just put "Buffy?!?!?!?" on the same level as 'The Wire'?????
by Kai_Mah'gra
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FACToid.
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And damn I miss that lovable asshole Viserys.
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March 24, 2012, 7:28 a.m. CST
Even worse, did Herc just put "Buffy" in the same sentence as The Wire, BUT ahead of it?
by Kai_Mah'gra
Put the pipe down Herc and come back to us. It's too much to throw your life away for.
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March 24, 2012, 7:31 a.m. CST
>>>>'to remind us of the days when great hourlongs like 'Buffy'.....and 'The Wire' ruled the airwaves. '
by Kai_Mah'gra
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA And just so it's clear.... I'm laughing at the 'Buffy' as a 'great hourlong' part.
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March 24, 2012, 7:34 a.m. CST
Wait, did he just compare fantasy with drama and crime procedurals??
by Fawst
Please, put a band-aid on that wounded pride and another on your vagina. Jesus, the man didn't piss on your mom. For the record, Lost is the best show ever, GoT is the best on TV CURRENTLY, and Downton Abbey is like being a kid in a candy store: it gives you a toothache because it's so sweet, but damn if it isn't glorious.
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It truly was a great show, up there with the best. It packed more heart, entertainment, excellent writing and genre awesomeness than just about any other show, ever. For me it's up there with LOST.
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Especially as a brunette as she is in real life rather than in her white Targaeryan locks as Daenerys
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March 24, 2012, 8:09 a.m. CST
Yeah, Buffy, and Alias... but you don't say The Sopranos. Show's how much a hack you are Herc.
by Nick
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...and check out the audiobook of Game of Thrones series. This is THE way to experience this series. Peter Dinklage is awesome as Tyrion, but once you hear Roy Dotrice narrate this story, especially his portrayal of Tyrion, everything else pales by comparison.
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ANGEL as well.
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Breaking Bad rules yo! This one is pretty good too.
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Deadwood is at the pinnacle of hr. long television
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March 24, 2012, 8:35 a.m. CST
Buffy, Angel, Firefly... sorry, didn't waste time in the AV room in High School.. Joss Wheadon is for fat virgins.
by Nick
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I'm not a huge fan of Whedon's other works but firefly is fucking brilliant and anyone who says otherwise either hasn't watch it or has poor taste. Fine, I'll say it. Fact.
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March 24, 2012, 9:52 a.m. CST
People calling GoT the best ever? Calling LOST the best ever???
by Tim
Calm down. I fucking love Game of Thrones, love every novel in the series, but damn, the show is not on the level of some of the other elite. Having said that, I'm excited as hell for next Sunday...Mad Men and Game of Thrones back to back!
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I thought GoT--the show--to be pretty solid. Its main accomplishment is that it manages to condense so many complex characters and plotlines into a generally manageable show and keeps things relatively intact. Because of that, the show is impressive. As to being very good, I would be less enthusiastic on that score. GoT was something I thoroughly enjoyed, but if I had to compare it to, say, the Wire or Breaking Bad (and yes, I consider those shows to be best ones I've ever seen), then GoT just isn't up to par. But compared to other geek shows out there, it's definitely pretty good. Compared to, say, Doctor Who or BSG or DS9--my personal pantheon of geek awesomeness--GoT is definitely up there. It's just not the best thing since sliced bread that many people believe it is. Although I will say that Peter Dinklage *is* the best thing since sliced bread. His turn as Tyrion was utterly fantastic.
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Being a UK tv viewer I can tell you that only bleary-eyed US royalists go gaga for Julian Fellows' piece of shit. Now, how about 'Misfits'..? Has anyone at AICN watched that yet..? If not, it's about time (or time travel, depending on your power!)
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Nice try natalie, but he would still turn you down in a second. Just break you hymen with a dildo in public and be done with i-- oh wait thats what your doing here
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nice try natalie, but he would still turn you down in a second... just break your hymen with a dildo in public and be donw with i- oh no wait, that's what your doing here.
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Also Deadwood never really ended so that definitely hurt its best show ever factor and the Sopranos ran 2 seasons too long and had what I thought was an incredibly weak last season. That said I think GoT will show us how good it is if it can make the last 2 books into interesting tv that wont drag or crumble under the vastness of the cast and story.
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Entertaining heartfelt TV with great characters, plotlines and some awesome villains. It should have ended with the fifth season, after that it really ran into ground but that might have been UPN; the channel shows went to die.
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I'd personally say that the last ten years or so as a whole (give or take) has produced stellar TV all-around. I think we really are living during one of the medium's golden ages. I was watching the Golden Globes this year and when they announced the nominees for best TV Drama....I would have liked GOT to win, but I mean, fuck, every show nominated was absolutely fantastic and totally worthy of the nomination. There's plenty of total shit on TV, but there's no shortage of excellent shows that are getting the proper audience they deserve.
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british socialites from 100 years ago were so ridiculous, it may as well be Westeros. yeah it's schmaltzy, whatevs...
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All come second to Exodus part 2! But GoT is excellent, and I can't wait to see season 2. Rome is probably the second best. Third is open to votes. Which can include Buffy, which was one of the best hourlongs of its time.
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Hey guys, just a tech question: I often have trouble loading video links posted on AICN. This happens on both my PC and my Mac. I click on the link and instead of getting a Flash player I get nothing... nada. The spot where the video should play is just white background. Are any others having this problem? Both the Mac and PC are running the latest versions of Firefox, Safari and IE (on the PC). Both are running the latest version of the Flash plugin. Both machines are about 3 years old. Any insights or help is welcome.
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March 24, 2012, 12:04 p.m. CST
The Wire, Deadwood, Lost, Arrested Development, BSG, and Breaking Bad
by Crow3711
Round out my list for best complete (or mostly complete) series. They are also all too recent however. Can't forget seinfeld, nypd blue, twin peaks, etc etc. Basically, can't we all agree that there has been a hell of a lot of GREAT television? It's true!
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March 24, 2012, 12:09 p.m. CST
As Long As They Make It To The RW and The Fight With The Red Viper vs Mountain
by Crow3711
I have never, and I mean never, had my heart race so fast and been so physically invested while reading a book as I was while reading the Red Viper fight. That shit was intense, and it was just words! I can't wait to actually see that fight. And of course the RW will be one of the most shocking and memorable episodes of tv ever, Id imagine. Especially for people who don't know whats coming. But really, the red viper fight had me on my fight screaming "get him!" while reading a fucking book. Incredible. I killed her screaming whelp. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her fucking head in. Wow.
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It seems that while there has been an explosion of reality TV garbage showcasing: dancing D listers, personal makeovers, house makeovers, car makeovers, swapping, weddings, singing, junk collecting/selling, interventions, want-to-be models, the cunty wives of wherever, contests set on a "remote" tropical island or, for that matter, anything that is prefaced with "Celebrity" in the title. To counter this, there are many notable, mostly serialized, dramas and comedies that are more like small film franchises than what we think of as traditional television fare.
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but there have been better HBO series. it doesn't grab me the same way Six Feet Under or Rome did and yeah, Downton Abbey was fucking phenomenal.
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One of my main gripes with the show is the sword fighting is often slow, obviously choreographed and just not interesting to watch. This is especially noticeable when you have read the books and see how martin wrote the fights. Im worried about some of the awesome fights down the road because of this. I didn't at all believe syrio was the first sword or a water dancer in the show.
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...drives home the point that reality is subjective.
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Don't believe me? http://tinyurl.com/84x8ey7
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Keep in mind they are fighting with broadswords, not rapiers. These are not the weapons of lightning fast fencing. They may simply be going for a more accurate style for the weapons they are using. If you're looking for flashy sword-fighting, I don't think you'll ever find it-- even in the books it doesn't fit. I'm no expert, so I'm sure liberties are taken, but for the most part, Martin tends to keep the medieval accuracy intact, even while weaving in elements of magic and supernatural.
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Did someone try to compare that turd BE to GoT??? LOL.... that's like comparing Fast and Furious to a Chris Nolan movie.
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Season 1 of GoT rapes the first season of The Wire (what a snooze fest).
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March 24, 2012, 1:34 p.m. CST
GOT = excellent. It's also a short fall into the realm of self-serious goofball fantasy shit.
by Pvt. Duke
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More like a commercial for seasons 1 and 2 really. At least it looks like they're going with a CGI direwolf finally.
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March 24, 2012, 2:29 p.m. CST
Deadwood, the wire, breaking bad, the sopranos. Seriously take your pick for best ever.
by dahveed1972
We have been blessed
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March 24, 2012, 2:31 p.m. CST
It still hurts me that deadwood didn't get a proper final season. Justified is fun and all...
by dahveed1972
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The good episodes are very good but there were too many shitty ones, and if I'm honest, there were whole sub-plots that lasted entire seasons that left me cold. The best stuff in the whole series was the Baltar and Six story, which never came to the fore enough. It was a very well worked metaphor to begin with.
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Syrio never fought with any sort of large slow sword, that is why he was chosen to train Arya. In the books he is described as being incredible fast and skilled. Hell he makes fun of slow clunky armor covered knights with huge swords. Also the mountain is supposed to wield a 6 ft great sword with one hand like a smaller warrior would a normal sized man. My issue is a lot of the battles appear staged. People are swinging to miss and not to kill and its really obvious. Not too mention great warriors in the book hardly seem like it from how its shown in the series. Hell even Tyrion wields an axe and does ok for his size.
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... you have to be kidding me...
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Has a handful of episodes that legitimately stand up to the best written episodes of any series. I don't know the whole run sustained that level of originality, though. I'm thinking of stuff like Hush and The Body and some others.
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March 24, 2012, 2:59 p.m. CST
If you take the best seasons of buffy and angel together you could make a case for best ever. Be
by dahveed1972
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March 24, 2012, 3:19 p.m. CST
Mulholland Drive was a TV pilot to begin with.
by SiouxCitySarsaparilla
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I don't think I totally agree Hawaiian. I'd say it certainly hasn't been the best television sword fighting I've ever seen, but I disagree about the Syrio thing. I felt like they knocked it out of the park with the wooden sword scene. He fucking KILLED that first guy who a stick to the side of the head with the first blow. That shit was incredible, and even without reading the book, I knew the intention was that that guy was fucking dead before he get the ground. I don't recall anything in the books that makes him seem any more badass than he did in that scene. I don't mean to presume anything, but it feels to me more like you're letting you're imagination of Syrio influence your perception of him in the first season. I, on the hand, saw the first season before I read all the books, so perhaps my viewing of that scene before reading about him is also influencing my perception of it. As for the other fights, I think its been hit or miss. The scene with Jaime and Ned in the square, before ned gets speared in the leg, wasn't the most thrilling. But, the fight between Bronn and the knight of the vale was really, really, really well done I thought. I don't know, it just seems like you're being a little harsh. They definitely did a solid job with the Mountain chopping off his horses head in one fell swoop. I don't really know what else you want. But to each his own, I'm not saying you're wrong or anything. I just felt like overall they did a pretty great job. You want to see bad sword fighting and people swinging to miss? Watch the star wars prequels. Have you seen that video going around where it slows all the action down and you can see how insanely bad the fighting is? It's hysterical. GoT has been nothing like that, I don't think. Then again, perhaps I need to slow things down a bit and examine...
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A mini series, but a substantial HBO production based on the Tony Kushner play. Starred Al Pacino, Meryl Streep, Emma Thompson, James Cromwell and Mary Louise Parker.
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The Sand Snakes are going to be BABES. As far as Dornish chicks, if I had to guess, they'll probably only cast Arianne and maybe one or two of the Sand Snakes, putting all of their roles into one (or two) characters. Less confusion for TV crowd. Crow mentioned the Red Viper fight, above. Yeah, this should be good if they do if right. Actually all of Oberyn's scenes should be good -- he's one of my fav characters and has some GREAT dialogue with Tyrion when he's introduced.
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March 24, 2012, 3:25 p.m. CST
I do hope they raised the budget. the jousting setup was laughably tiny
by FrodoFraggins
I'm not sure why they even bothered with it if the end result was so lame.
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Every time a bona fide TV critic issues a "best ever" list, only three shows make every list without fail: The Simpsons The Sopranos Buffy The Vampire Slayer If you didn't like Buffy, you weren't paying attention.
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March 24, 2012, 3:29 p.m. CST
If they make it to RW, I'm going to watch it with friends who haven't read the series.
by Gene Cowan
Their reactions should be pretty great. I can't think of a bigger "HOLY EFF" moment in TV history, if they pull it off correctly. And I can't imagine they would screw up one of the biggest turning points in the series. I say this also because of all of the screentime they're adding into this season for the most pivotal character involved in that scene.
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March 24, 2012, 3:33 p.m. CST
frodofraggins, I don't think there are any spoilers in the video if that's what you're worried about.
by Gene Cowan
It's mainly a re-cap of season one, with some hints of things to come and some brief introductions to who the new characters will be. Unless you are REALLY trying to avoid any and all things regarding new people and settings and things like that.
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... I dont think id take it seriously. Hell I would pick the venture brothers or the boondocks over a lot of the top shows. They are better written, smarter and straight up funnier than 95% of shows out there. Also Brock Sampson would own everyone in the GoT universe, even those dragons.
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If I remember correctly, you said how you wanted to discover what happens in the series via HBO. I'm surprised if you've lasted this long without accidentally reading some major spoilers of things to come. Some of the people on the TB's here are huge douches with spoilers. My point here is that you should probably avoid your TB's at all costs, once you post GoT articles. You're going to be pissed if you find certain things out ahead of time.
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I just think a lot of the battles feel stilted and fake like they were predetermined before the fight which really takes me out of the scene. People seem stiff and awkward for life long warriors. Its also other things, for a guy named the mountain they do a poor job emphasizing his size. I do agree the Bronn fight was well done but so many others seemed weak. I was also disappointed by the jousting scene. If you watch again you will notice some well timed edits and cuts to make several scenes look better such as the mountain cutting off his horses head. Just seems a bit lazy with so many excellent sword fights in other movies.
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March 24, 2012, 3:48 p.m. CST
a list of a bona-fide TV Critic? That's your argument for Buffy? It's a "cult" show at best....
by Nick
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March 24, 2012, 3:49 p.m. CST
If they took every "good" minute of Buffy, and combined them... you'd have zero minutes
by Nick
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March 24, 2012, 3:50 p.m. CST
How The Sopranos isnt near the top of everyones BestEver list is just baffling....Sopranos gave birth to the new Era of TV
by smokie
If not for Soprano's there would be no Wire, Breaking bad, GoT, Deadwood, Six Feet Under, Rome, Battlestar Gallactica ect. It reinvented the hourlong and paved the way for a new age in artistic television I agree that there were many missteps....and could be probably a season and a half shorter......but cmon people My List Deadwood, Wire, Sopranos, Six feet, Breaking Bad, Boardwalk empire, Northern Exposure (one of my all time favorites), Twin Peaks If GoT secdond season is as good or better then the first then that would shoot to my top five LOST would be at the top of my list if they didnt fuck it up so badly
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Some of the most intelligent and funny shit ever to be produced. "Dick riding Obama, Obama"
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I'm actually asking. Cause I've worn one of "fake" ones they used for production on snow white and the huntsman, and even being half plastic it was heavy and restricting as fuck. I literally can not imagine going into a real battle wearin a real suit of armor. In my opinion the whole experience made me think every movie I've ever seen with guys wearing armor was complete bullshit. It would be fairly stilted and stiff and slow. I know it's entertainment so they have to make it visceral, but I couldn't even lift my arms above my own shoulders, so how could someone lift their sword over their head? It just doesn't make sense. So maybe GoT is actually trying to be slightly more realistic. That's why the bronn fight ruled. Armor vs no armor. Same the the red viper. He was just much faster than the mountain. It makes me feel like martins descriptions of Jon snow teAching his brothers to fight is the most realistic example of real sword fighting mode il style. It's slow and it fucking hurts. Someone swinging down on a shield your holding...man, I honestly wouldn't last two blows it would hurt your shoulder so bad. I'd drop my arm and get my throat slit in moments.
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Typo.
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They've re-cast the Mountain this season, so hopefully they will put more emphasis on his size. His role is a little bigger in book 2, so we should see more of him.
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March 24, 2012, 3:57 p.m. CST
I only saw Buffy like once or twice...but that piece of shit does not belong in anyone's list......cmon man
by smokie
I am sure its fun and campy and what not but let's get a grip
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But that ending and those last two seasons were far more a miss than hit. The Wire was overall a much much stronger show with better actors and some truly incredible writing. It ruined most other dramatic tv for me.
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Gene do you know who they cast as the mountain? Crow I actually used to work for an armorer and blacksmith at a large Renaissance Fair. Full plate armor is heavy and unwieldy. However he also pointed out that I was not raised with it or training most of my life to use it. He gave an example of a katana, we can all swing it and hurt someone but a warrior who has trained hard, has skill and is willing to risk his life on that would not have the same issues you and I have doing what they wouldnt bat an eye at.
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Cool stuff about the armorer and smithing stuff though. I still think it'd be slower than we'd like to imagine a badass midievil knight fight...but point taken. Training counts.
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Season one is a lot more plot driven and the strands come together beautifully it must be said. By the end it had become a somewhat different show but arguably a better one. The last time I watched the box set front to back I was expecting there to be the occasional duff episode and was amazed by the heights of consistency. The latter seasons are wonderfully compelling, character driven drama. As storytelling I'm tempted to put it ahead of The Wire. I kind of what to root for Deadwood but it suffers from the abbreviated run, and necessarily the tone was beginning to change in season three as the town grew bigger. I'm not sure the newer characters were paid off satisfactorily without a fourth year. Here's hoping Milch can take his unresolved themes from his past few projects and produce a master work. He's not getting any younger though. Seriously though, getting back to The Sopranos, the whole thing is stunning, first rate, every episode, when you watch it in full, years later. It has a register of symbolism that The Wire only truly attains in its final couple of years, good as the character portraits and essays on civics are.
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and eats your feces wait
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I honestly don't know if that's good or bad. (this is all with a squishy renee zellweger confused/gross face)
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As the guy I worked with said he thought chain mail and lighter armors were more effective since cross bows own even heavily armored knights. Speed is usually more effective than brute strength. Sioux I think those final seasons of the Sopranos were incredibly weak often relying on red herrings and Tony to carry things. I still remember that rather lame subplot with the Russians that didn't even peter out but was.never.mentioned again. Battlestar Galactica did a lot of the same. Keep the fans tiitillated but never go anywhere interesting or at all. Seemed like they didn't know where to go with things.
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Ian Whyte. I'm pretty sure the info below was made official. http://www.imdb.com/news/ni15281601/ Maybe not as built as the Mountain might be, but here's a Google pic to show off his height: http://celebslists.com/images/ian-whyte-01.jpg
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March 24, 2012, 4:30 p.m. CST
Sopranos may be the "best" show of all time. But's characters were just laughably hypocritical, intellectually-dead, sociopathic shit-bags, and at times it made it tough to watch. For me.
by Pvt. Duke
But watch I did.
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And he can always bulk up so that is no big deal to me plus armor helps make him look even bigger. I think part of it is actually showing how cold and cruel he is and what a monster on battle he is.
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Im thinking he would be an interesting vargo hoat or xallabar xohn or whatever the onion knights buddy was named
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Also, I assume you mean Michael K. Williams? I've never thought about him for Vargo Hoat. That WOULD be interesting, seeing as he's one of the biggest douches in the series. If he stays a part of Boardwalk Empire we likely won't see him, but maybe sometime in season 4 or 5 he'll turn up. That would be cool. I'm also curious to see who gets cast for Ramsay Bolton, if they make it that far. Ramsay and Oberyn are who I'm most curious about, but I'm also very curious to see if Alfie Allen is up for the role of REEK!
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March 24, 2012, 4:52 p.m. CST
Hopefully GOT doesn't cast Michael Pitt, only to knock off the character three seasons early because the actor is a dick.
by Pvt. Duke
Unprecedented, that. If you're an HBO lead - or any actor of consequence - and you're fired solely for being an asshole, you almost have to redefine what it means to be an asshole. So props to Pitt on that.
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March 24, 2012, 4:54 p.m. CST
gene the cow: thanks but I've decided not to be spoiled on anything including new characters
by FrodoFraggins
And after being spoiled on Sean Beans character and the dragon girl ending last season, I'm avoiding all talkbacks.
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Though xallabar is an ancillary character so I wouldn't want williams wasted. Honestly I'm curious how hbo handles the White walkers. They are probably going to end up being the real enemy in the end but *spoilers* they are hardly actually in the books. Not sure how tv viewers will react to that
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March 24, 2012, 5:10 p.m. CST
I'm Going to Confess Something Pretty Serious Right Now Re: Sopranos
by Crow3711
Anyone who is reading this is going to know that I've clearly watched, and enjoyed, a hell of a lot of television in my days. I love it all. But I'll tell you something I don't often confess. I stopped watching the sopranos somewhere in S5. I just couldn't do it anymore, for a lot of the basic reasons franky5fingers mentioned briefly above. It was just so repetitive, so ugly, and so incredibly unlikable. I know it was great, and it's not like I'm saying it was bad or I didn't enjoy it when I was watching it. But at some point I just lost interest. And I've never had any compunction to go back and finish it out either. Not even a little bit. It hurts that after the big finale hubbub and complaining I, somehow or another, came to see the finale episode, so I know how it ends, I'm just missing a gap. But the show started to feel so cyclical to me, every season after S1 felt basically the same to me. I don't know if thats valid or anyone felt the same, but it was just boring. No one was really evolving or moving forward. It was just the same patterns with different people over and over. And maybe that would be okay in some shows, but I found everyone, including Tony, so disgustingly unlikable (he's likable in a relativistic sense to most other characters on the show) and often such a fucking moron, I couldn't keep going. So that's my confession. I know it's a great show, I've just never seen all of it, and I don't really care to at this point. The Wire is so much better than every other show ever made in my opinion that this whole conversation is moot anyway. It's just: 1) The Wire There is nothing else on the list frankly. Lost is my personal favorite show of all time. I love it the most. It was my favorite journey. But that has nothing to do with what is objectively the best complete series ever. It's The Wire.
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Kidding about what... the fact that unlike The Wire or Boardwalk Empire, Game of Thrones actually has a PLOT? And an actual STORYLINE with cliff hanger endings and twists and turns? I like shows that are really story driven where there is a threaded narrative that continues from week to week, which is something that GoT does better than any other HBO show to date.
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I've watched the entire series of Sopranos 3 times now from beginning to end. It really does get richer every time. When you don't have to wait week-to-week, anticipating every episode, it's much easier to appreciate every moment. The one word I could use for the Sopranos is 'deep'. The shit is deep. The last season (6b) especially is so under appreciated it's crazy. The writing is brilliant. It's my favorite show ever, and I don't think that any other show will knock it out of that place.
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That is all.
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I'm also really curious how many viewers HBO manages to retain after getting more into the white walkers, and the house of the undying, and melisandres shadow and other magical things this season. I don't think people realize the level of fantasy that's coming. Then again, I don't read fantasy, and nothing in these books ever really bothered me very much. It continues to be as badass and grounded, despite those things, as the first book in my opinion. I think if they handle it right it'll be ok. The shadow moment will be a big deal for some people I imagine. Some people just won't like that. Even bigger than the white walkers though...I am terrified of what people will do when Bran makes his journey to the three-eyed crow, and encounters little magical wood elf creatures and a man twisted into a tree. I just...I find it hard to believe that will ever be on television. I really don't think they'll do it the same way as the books. It's too fantastic, and it would probably look silly as fuck. I think they'll do some serious simplification on that storyline ya?
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It's probably the only one of the "great" shows I've never seen. That is something I aim to fix within the next 6 months.
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Not quite sure what you mean by saying the later seasons of Sopranos were full of red herrings...it wasn't a mystery show. The russian wasn't even in the later seasons, it was season 3, and the story ended that episode. It's also one of my favorite TV episode ever. Funnier than most comedies.
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March 24, 2012, 5:21 p.m. CST
Seriously screw the HBO fanboys... "Family Meeting" was so much better than "-30-".
by AshokForgiven
I really don't get the fanboy love over The Wire. Yeah, it was a solid "social commentary" on the American city. But beyond that, the story itself really didn't build up to much. I wasn't THAT impressed with the whole print news media story, and I thought the whole fake serial killer story with Jimmy McNulty was kind of lame. Meanwhile, The Shield rocked out a slam dunk final season centered on Mackey and Shane Vendrell. And Walt Goggins acting blows the crap out of any performance in The Wire. HBO fanboys are just pissed because the FX kids got a better show and watched it for free.
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But I'm not really a fanboy. I think Justified is the best show on tv right now, except maybe Breaking Bad, which isn't hbo either. I think game of thrones is excellent, but I don't think it'll ever live up to the novels. I just honestly think of all the tv I've ever seen, The Wire and Deadwood are the best, highest quality shows I've seen. Lost is my personal favorite, like I've said, I love it the most personally, but if I were a critic, I know it's not the best show ever. The Wire is. But I need to see the shield. badly. clearly.
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The shield was also a good show but hardly anything compared to the Wire. The acting was all across the board better and help make a star out of the likes of Idris Elba. The writing was far more realistic, emotional without being sappy and constantly surprising. Ive never seen another show use a single curse word over and over in a single scene as brilliantly as the wire did in season one. The fact alone you criticize the lack of plot makes you a bit suspect. They wrote each season as the last and still created an epic sprawling storyline as tight and well thought out was incredible. Most importantly they never violated their world or characters to make the plot move. Everything fit made sense and yet could be shocking. Hell how they tie up the barksdale crews story alone was god damned shakespearean. No other show has come close to doing this in my opinion. Oh and the funniest live action show is the trailerpark boys hands down. Its both stupid as all hell but brilliant at the same time.
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I loved the show up until about the halfway point or a bit longer than that but it felt like it jumped the shark at some point. It went from this riveting mob family drama and charcater study to a disjointed mess of interesting ideas that never seemed to anywhere. I especially felt this way about Tonys kids. they just seemed to drift from plot to random plot to plot. SPOILERS I Wish tony would have whacked his son instead of chris. God AJ was terrible after a while though i guess his failure was indicative of tonys in the end.
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I totally respect your opinion and I admit the show wasn't a flaming heap of garbage like "Greys Anatomy". My biggest complaint was each season WAS way too self contained. Unlike shows like The Shield and Game of Thrones, the contained structure of The Wire kills any real sense of urgency or tension. Season 1,3,4 were the best when the show focused on Avon, but the union plot just felt incredible out of left field, the news media story at the end was very disjointed and for me, absolutely NOT "must see TV".
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March 24, 2012, 5:54 p.m. CST
Crow, regarding the level of upcoming fantasy elements (possible spoilers)
by Gene Cowan
I don't think it will be that big of an issue, really. Crow, you might be right about the shadow-birth scene, but I don't think people will be running away in droves from the show. In an interview, Martin admitted that his series is very low-fantasy, saying something like "by the end of the series, it will have less fantasy than many similar series have by the end of the first page." Bran clearly has the most fantasy surrounding him, with the warging and the greenseeing, but by the time we get to the three-eyed crow most viewers will be sticking it out the end no matter what happens. The real question is how they will handle the warging in the next couple seasons. It's kind of a tough concept to portray on-screen I've always thought. We'll see how the audience handles that, first. Thoughts?
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Is how they will keep the forward momentum of the series going when the books have a serious problem with this. Especially Daenarys and to some extent arya and tyrion later on. This also relates to the white walkers. They are the big baddies of the series and have one scene in the books where they take center stage and is more an example of how to kill them and to highlight sam. Books this works but i cant see tv viewers waiting and waiting and then even remembering who the main threat really is.
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The other aspects of the show are so good that if your seriously stop watching because of ONE scene of magic, then you're just a pretentious bastard trying to prove something. The magic is never pointless, it's never there just to be magic, it always serves a purpose and it usually comes back to bite people in the ass. Magic has consequences in A Song of Ice and Fire, even if those consequences aren't felt until one or two books (or seasons, in this case) later.
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I'm wondering the same about the momentum of the series post-RW. I don't think it will be a huge issue though, since they will likely move a lot of things about I'm guessing. AFfC and ADwD are basically one huge long book and most of that will get re-arranged according to chronology. Plus a lot of stuff is interesting enough on its own, in my opinion. The stuff with Davos, Theon, Ramsay, and Asha (plus other Greyjoys) I really liked. They will probably increase Mance Rayder's role too. And Tyrion is ALWAYS in peril, so his scenes should all be good. Plus we got the Martells -- that's all pretty good too. The only REALLY boring scenes I thought were Brienne's POV chapters.
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But some part still just doesn't believe that Bran entering a cave full of Forest Children and meditating with a Tree-Man will ever be on television. I mean, of course I hope I'm wrong. But I feel like they'll get to Coldhands and then find their own way of doing it. I don't know.
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Sardonic, forgot to mention this in the last post: I agree with you. There isn't enough to justify walking away based on the way that the fantasy elements are introduced and used. If anything, even the most fantasy-phobic people who are afraid of being labeled as nerds should enjoy the way that it's interwoven with the major plot points.
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It does seem kinda silly thinking about it, but they'll make it work I'm sure. It sounds like they have already started to change some of his stuff -- word on the street is that they never casted Meera and Jojen. I'm wondering if they will be "replaced" by Osha, but they will need her down the road to separate with Rickon. We'll see. Whatever happens I have faith in the showrunners and writers.
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So many people told me that the 4th book was the worst in the series. Albeit a tad on the short side and filled with side-characters, it was actually one of my favorites... why? The Martells, and the Greyjoys. Both families are fucking awesome and every character is a great addition. Its hard to do "dream casting" with Game of Thrones because HBO, 9 times out of 10, will go with an unheralded British stage and screen actor who goes on to knock the role out of the park. That said, while I was reading the books I was picturing people like Freida Pinto as Arianne, Tom Hiddleston as Ramsay Bolton, Nathan Fillion as Mance Rayder, Cliff Curtis as Oberyn, Mark Strong as the Damphair, and Daniel Day-Lewis as Euron. None of that shit will EVER happen, but its fun to think about. In the end, I know HBO will cast the right people.
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March 24, 2012, 6:46 p.m. CST
The Shield is easier to get into but The Wire is much deeper
by FrodoFraggins
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And could maybe possibly happen. He's on the same level as Headey and Dinklage before the show started star-wise. I just want to know who will play Victarion and Euron. They've got to be complete monster badasses.
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March 24, 2012, 7:13 p.m. CST
Ooh, Cliff Curtis as Oberyn WOULD be fun. All of the Martells are likely going to be very attractive.
by Gene Cowan
Especially the Sand Snakes.
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I like her.
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March 24, 2012, 7:14 p.m. CST
I really hope they don't write out a lot of the Martell storyline
by Gene Cowan
For some reason I really liked Arianne's chapters. Same with Quentyn.
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March 24, 2012, 7:23 p.m. CST
I was surprised by how much of a role the Martells take later in the series
by Kammich
And I agree, I hope they don't shy away from it. At the very least, they'll need to be included and feature Dorne simply for the Myrcella stuff and the trial. They're really great characters who offered a change-of-pace and breath of fresh air from all the Westerosi stuff. I really liked all the Iron Islanders stuff, too, and hope they fully include that as well.
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Absolutely adorable. great tush, too.
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March 24, 2012, 7:27 p.m. CST
...great hourlongs like “Buffy” and “West Wing” and “Alias”
by p0llk4t
...oh wow...hahahahah...that's too funny...
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So shut the fuck up!
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No but seriously, fuck The Cape. Seriously.
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March 24, 2012, 7:44 p.m. CST
Actually most of the hardcore Buffy/Angel/Whedon fans are women in their early thirties. The one i know best gets laid plenty. And I mean puh-lenty. Know what im sayin?
by dahveed1972
say no more!
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...Not yet. Serling's Twilight Zone...then...now...ALWAYS.
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...that currently belongs to The Wire. Nothing even close. 'Thrones' is great though, but it is only one season in.
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SPOILERS There's really no way they can get around it...it's clearly going to play a major, major role in the upcoming series. When you re-read the books thinking about Bloodraven's (or Brynden Rivers, a.k.a. the Tree Dude) presence, it's crazy how much influence he has. Practically every single line the Old Bear's raven says has greater meaning once you realize Bloodraven has been using it to spy the entire time. I honestly think we're going to find out that it was Bloodraven who sent the direwolves to the Stark children in the first place.
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I'm saying there won't be a bunch of midget Forest Children huddling in underground caves with large ears, golden eyes and supernatural powers. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they go that weird.
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It wasn't as "deep" as far as political commentary goes (thank God!). It was also 100x more interesting. I guess The Wire was "deep" (whatever that means), but it's one of the most academic, bookish, and lethargically paced "good" show ever made. I still think Shawn Ryan tells better stories than David Simon.
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Nice rack...
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...YOU'RE not helping our cause any.
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Loved him on The Wire. Loving him on Treme. Just for fun, put him in boiled leathers and chain mail and just film one bit for the DVD extra PLEASE! Sir Bunk Batiste. Have him walk in on something, give that trademark headtilt and look of disbelief, saying "Fuuuuuuck me." hehe
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The Wire IS one of the best shows ever, and I am only 1/3 of the way through the second season. I think Breaking Bad is the best thing ever, but every episode I see of The Wire, the less certain I am of that. I have no idea where this or the subsequent seasons will lead, and that is fucking AWESOME! Check it out. Oh yeah... The NORTH Remembers!
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Okay ... ?
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She's playing newcomer Margaery Tyrell. I would tell you more, but I doubt you want to know too much about the new stuff.
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March 24, 2012, 9:31 p.m. CST
>>>>'If you didn't like Buffy, you weren't paying attention.'
by Kai_Mah'gra
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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March 24, 2012, 9:33 p.m. CST
I wish someone would make an adaptation of the witcher trilogy
by some dude
I think those books are even better than a song of ice and fire. They are also the basis for the best fantasy rpg videogame series of the last decade. Oh yeah when the hell will HBO go crazy and take on Dune?
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March 24, 2012, 9:34 p.m. CST
>>>>'Every time a bona fide TV critic issues a "best ever" list, only three shows make every list without fail:..... Buffy The Vampire Slayer '
by Kai_Mah'gra
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ,...and by 'bona fide TV critic' I assume you mean a thirteen year old girl on the wrong side of puberty.
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March 24, 2012, 9:58 p.m. CST
The Witcher 1 and 2 are FREAKING AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by AshokForgiven
Oh man I totally agree with you 100% the_hawaiian_stallion, an American version of the Witcher TV series would be amazing.
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... I guess it wasn't as bad as Ringer?
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I think that the reason for the much touted "golden age" of television we live in is that films are finally getting the chance to breath a bit by not having to rush through a story in two hours. Not many classic novels can be read in two hours; indeed, most take a good 10-20 hours of reading to receive the full rewards. Now that there exists a business model that actually treats episodes as chapters in a fully planned narrative, the possibilities will only expand. I read some critic claim that with the return of Mad Men soon, the Golden Age officially inaugurated by The Sopranos is drawing to a close. I disagree. I think we're witnessing the tip of the iceberg in terms of storytelling potential. As long as there is a sizable audience willing to pay for premium services, epic film storytelling will continue.
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Would make even Jamie Lannister piss his pants. He kills kings for a living. Yeah plural as in he has a ball of dead king heads like you have a rubberband ball on your desk.
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See, I think the Children are really going to be integral to the plot of the series come the finale. They represent the "forsaken nature", along with the direwolves, the giants, the wildings, and yes...possibly even the White Walkers. I seriously think there's an important connection between the Others and the Starks. I mean come on, let's look at the Starks for a second. They live in a castle called Winterfell. They were once known as the Kings of Winter. They keep swords upon the crypts of their dead because "their spirits were restless" in the old days. Their fucking motto is "Winter is Coming". No faction in the entire series is associated with coldness, harshness, and Winter, more than the Starks...aside from the White Walkers. Coincidence? I think not. I think the Children, the Others, the Night's Watch, and the Starks, will all be on the same side at the end of the series, and their foe will be Daenarys, her dragons, and all the followers of the Red God.
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March 24, 2012, 10:49 p.m. CST
THE WIRE is on a level of greatness that Literary Masterpieces, Film Classics, and Good TV shows can never match!!!
by GravyAkira
THE WIRE should be preserved for future generations to see how we lived in the 20th century. No other TV Show even comes close! There's THE WIRE, and then everything else. It is the Michael Jordan of television. Game Of Thrones had a great first season, but its no WIRE. Same goes with Boardwalk, Sopranos, Buffy, Breaking Bad, The Shield, or whatever else you want to bring to the table. NOTHING COMPARES to THE WIRE. Have I made my point yet?
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March 24, 2012, 10:51 p.m. CST
No, you haven't made your point gravyakira. And you never will.
by Sardonic
Because here's the weird thing: people have different opinions from you.
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Martin really likes to build up characters and then break them down in the moment of calm or celebration after great conflict and distress; sometimes permenantly. Happens over and over again. I believe this will only continue to happen again to characters that have been building to seemingly great heights. We all know who just not when or how. That all said I think Little Finger will either make or break it all when it all comes down to it in the end. He always comes out of things in the end and is aleays the smartest man in the room. He also relies himself, not magic or monsters or dragons or armies. Doesnt mean he will survive or prosper but he is going to save the day or doom them all. That or Bran who will become as aware of the world through his powers but also his experiences and heart. Oh and varys will play a part. Basically all that game of thrones stugg will finally fail hard and time for the people everyone least expects to come through
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I've thought for awhile too that the Red God was going to be the true "evil." I wouldn't be surprised if Melisandre realizes this and changes her stance by the end. I thought it was interesting that Martin gave her a single POV chapter in ADwD. Especially when the same part could have easily been given to Jon. It will be interesting if Dany actually becomes the foe, since she seems to be one of the characters that most fans are really "rooting for."
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March 24, 2012, 11:08 p.m. CST
I personally like Peter Dinklage's theory on the final scene:
by Gene Cowan
Dance number.
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So I take it you are one with a different opinion? "Come at the king, you best not miss" - OMAR
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How about..... no. I don't really hate "The Wire", but I hate its idiot fanbase who can't seem to get it through their heads that a lot of people actually like other TV shows more than "The Wire". You people are dumber than Paulbots.
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I mean shit, we KNOW that the original title for the last book was "A Time For Wolves". George R.R. Martin changed it because, in all seriousness, he "thought it was too spoilery". What more do we need? At the very least, we know the Starks are going to come back and rape the living shit out of all their foes (Lannisters, Boltons, Freys, etc.)
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Sansa will kill him. She's basically his surrogate for Cat. And here's the thing...as far as we know, Sansa still has the purple poison gems that she wore as a hair-net at the Grey Wedding. So far in the series, Sansa has been passive-aggressive. I think her first act of true agency, true "aggression", will be to kill Littlefinger, and thus take his place as ruler of the Vale. It makes sense, especially if you look at the other Stark children. Each one is essentially being "trained" in their own respective field. Sansa as politician. Arya as assassin. Bran as magician. Jon as a ruler. Rickon's the only wildcard, though I assume his true purpose is to be the "heir" to Winterfell when Davos brings him back from Skagos, so that the North has a Stark to rally their banners beneath, since none of the other kids can serve that purpose without jeopardizing their other position. Come on, tell me I'm not making sense here?
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The truth is, I absolutely LOVE The Wire. My top two TV shows of all time are The Sopranos and The Wire. I like them both ALMOST equally. I admit, however, that I like the Sopranos a little bit more, but only because: A) I'm Italian, so yes, I can relate to A LOT of the shit that happens in that show. So much of it fits perfectly with my family; the mannerisms, the language, etc. and... B) It's just more cinematic. To me, The Wire is about as documentarian as a show can be without actually being a true-story. That's not a knock on the show itself; in fact, that's why I love it. But at the some time, I enjoy the slightly more theatrical vibe of The Sopranos, and the layers of symbolism, both religious and philosophical, that are embedded into it. So as I said: I love both The Sopranos and The Wire. To me, they ARE the greatest shows ever made, no question. I just happen to like The Sopranos a little more. My only point was that, like it or not, some people think the fucking SHIELD is better than The Wire. Do I disagree with them? Hell-yes. Does that make them wrong? No. Because art is subjective. That's all there is too it.
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I'm pulling the race card! Its because of the mostly black cast of THE WIRE that causes your favor of im assuming GAME OF THRONES, which doesnt have a black face in sight. So that sir makes you a racist! And an idiot! "Point Taken" - McNulty
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First of all, my apologies for the mistaken post earlier. I did not bother watching this posted video since it had the same title as the video I watched over on westeros.org, so I am going on the assumption that David and Dan talked about it here in this video. This discussion revolved around the pacing of the TV adaptation in comparison to the books. In season 1, we saw a few elements of book 2 find their way into the last couple of episodes. With that precedence set, I think David and Dan are going to be even more liberal with the storyline and perhaps even make it through only 3/4 to 4/5 of book 2 as season 2 wraps up. "Why" might you ask... For many reasons, this would be a great benefit for the show. Naturally, these books are huge, and there are many segments that can be presented in greater detail or breezed over with the TV adaptation. Also, because the books are essentially one complete narrative, the TV show can pick and choose where it wants to end its episodes and whole seasons. Moreover, since the source material for the show is still being written (presumably 5/7 complete), the TV production may inadvertently catch up with the books and find itself in a really difficult situation as it has nothing more to base its
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That is why i dont think you are right because you do make sense. I dont think martin will go with such a straight forward approach. As i said it is the schemers and those truly aware of how things are that will triumph in the end. They may never even be acknowledged for it since no one may be left standing once all is said and done. Basically Littlefinger, bran, tyrion, and of course jamie now that he is changing. Possibly sandor too. Martin likes the underdogs in the long run. Varys has done as much to set things in motion as anyone, more so in a lot iof cases.
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For wasting everyones time with a lesson in the blatantly obvious. It's always nice when, instead of participating in a discussion, someone just breezes in and...tells you some stuff, then goes ahead and tells you what questions you should ask them. I like that. It's so...comforting.
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I also love both The Sopranos and The Wire, but my scale just tips in favor of The Wire for reasons probably related to my own life experiences.
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Damn it! I fail at posting today. Sincerely sorry. I am almost finished! ... its show on. Now, you may be asking yourselves (myself included), what are the implications? I think we are going to begin to see some overlap between the TV show and the books, which would eventually lead to 2-3 more seasons than there are books. I am sure no one would complain about that. This, of course, requires several assumptions, two of which being that the episode count for each season remains at 10 and that the show avoids cancellation. There will be hell to pay if it does, to be sure. As I start to wind down, I think the takeaway point here is that we should trust David and Dan to do the series justice. They have done an awesome job so far adapting the book to television. Aside from the sexposition scenes, the show has been really faithful to the books, allowing for brilliance to come straight off the page to TV. GRRM still has a lot of creative input, and HBO seems really pleased with how the show has fared so far. Let's be happy with what HBO has provided us so far and keep our fingers crossed for approval of more seasons.
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I think the entire point of this series was to make the "good guys" (Starks) seem completely destroyed and utterly incapable of vengeance, only for them to return (with the coming of Winter) and brutally ruin everyone that fucked them over from the beginning. The idea being, is revenge really worth it? If by the end, the network has become so convoluted that we can no longer tell the good from the bad, is it really worth the Starks finally coming back and bringing a horrible Winter upon the land and destroying everything in their path? GRRM has said that the ending will be bitter-sweet...what fits better than the Starks wrecking veangence upon enemies that are already weak and defeated?
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For his weird, editorial writing style.
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I mean, I guess I respect your opinion even if I don't agree or understand it. Even to it's final breath Sopranos remained and incredibly complex character study. I just never understood anyone who says it got worse as it went on...it clearly only got better and more layered. Take any of the last 9 episodes and put them against any of the first season...it's just a completely higher level of writing
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March 25, 2012, 1:14 a.m. CST
I really love the amount of debate and theorizing this talkback has
by Cartagia
I don't feel like finding out who typed it earlier, but the whole "The show is half as good as the books, and still kicks ass" sentiment, I agree with, but I would say it's about 85% as good as the books, and I love that it can embellish things that aren't in the novels. I love The Wire, The Shield AND The Sopranos, in that order, but they are all easily in y Top 10-15 hourlongs, with The Wire at #1.
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I can't say for sure, because it's not over. But I thought at the end of last season that I'd seen TV history. I mean just based on production values it's better than TV's ever been. And then the cast is perfect. I didn't sense a false note in the entire season. I can't say that about any other show. I mean even the opening credits sequence is awesomesauce. If I think of all my favorite shows, not one of them compares.
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1. Game of Thrones 2. Justified 3. Breaking Bad 4. Deadwood 5. Battlestar Galactica I have not seen Broken Empire, Mad Men, The Wire, Freaks and Geeks. Usually if I re-visit shows, I have a bunch of problems with them. This is the only show I've ever gone "WOW" when re-watching. The first time I saw it, one episode per week, I had issues with some of the characters and such. Watching them all in one sitting is a completely different experience, I probably wouldn't have claimed it as the top show before I did that.
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All the shows I listed I plan to watch at some point obviously.
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March 25, 2012, 2:41 a.m. CST
I love Buffy, and Angel. Not best ever shows though. Neither was Lost.
by happybunni
I remember being so frustrated with Lost. All the episode where nothing happens, or something absolutely minor happens, and then an episode where something crazy happens thrown in. Arrested Development I forgot about, it'd probably be #6 or #7. And I loves me some Curb.
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March 25, 2012, 2:45 a.m. CST
Also sorry for another post. But imagine a GoT-quality Sci Fi show on HBO!!
by happybunni
I think that would be freaking fantastic. More than amazing. I hope I get to see it in my lifetime
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March 25, 2012, 3:09 a.m. CST
I'm actually hoping they use a lot of Book 3 in Season 2
by Domi'sInnerChild
Book 2 has a lot of filler. Spoilers (I guess) there's a lot of wondering around and indecisive talking about what they'll do next as well as repeating what happened in Book 1(end Spoilers). While Book 3 is bloated with easily more than a season's worth of material if they maintain the pace of Season 1.
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Great plots and charachters with a fantastic ending. It was also nothing like the Wire as it was about corrupt cops while the Wire was about the Cops and Gangsters they were tailing a completely different type of show.
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1) People need to quit saying "[this] scene" or "[this book]" good make a great movie "IF THEY DO IT RIGHT." Yeah, no shit. You know what else could be great if they do it right? ANYTHING. Try having some fucking imagination and explain to us all what it would TAKE to "do it right'. 2) It's impossible to not sound like a douche when you say "hourlong". Just don't do it. Either the Sopranos is your favorite show of all time, or The Simpsons is. Have some balls and pick one. 3) "The Starks will end up coming back in Book 7, as Arya is becoming the assassin, Sansa the politician, Bran the magician and Jon the ruler." Yeah... no. That doesn't work at all. 4) I love the books, and the show is great, but it's time for something to change in Book 6. We've been circling around the same plots for five books now, and a shakeup is due. Book 6 better be the one where the Real Shit Going Down finally kicks off.
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Lots of raised then dropped storylines. Straw man charachters, Inconsistent seasons that dont make sense wrapped up by Deux Ex Machina endings. Hell The Great Whedon himself even admits this on his Chosen DVD commentary. And the worst the failing of any great series the failure to examine the implications of issues devolpments that the series raised. Except on Buffy they dont just simply not raise them but ignore and wipe them away so Buffy at best is a superficial and shallow show interspersed with (dated) strange type of 1 liner speaking The Spin-off Angel was/is actually a show that stands up better long term but that was down to Tim Minear and David Greenwalts production not Joss Whedon who bascaly just saw it as Walker Texas Ranger with fangs.
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Oh and: 5) Season 2 will follow Book 2 fairly closely, as Season 3 has to end with RW. S4 will then conclude Book 3. I'm guessing they'll still get more liberal with moving plot elements around, however, especially as Books 4 and 5 deeply overlap. Despite their length, with all their inflated meandering Books 4 and 5 would benefit much from being boiled down into two seasons, max, leaving the show's structure something like this: S1: A Game of Thrones S2: A Clash of Kings S3: A Storm of Swords (1st half) S4: A Storm of Swords (2nd half) S5: A Feast for Crows + A Dance With Dragons (1st half of each) S6: A Feast for Crows + A Dance With Dragons (2nd half of each) S7 (extra episodes?): The Winds of Winter S8 (extra episodes?): A Dream of Spring The problem here is that eight seasons is a *really* long time to keep a cast of this size together, especially if I'm wrong about the last two books and they require multiple seasons each, which may be the case.
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NONE INCLUDED IN HERE BTW We already know that anyone and everyone could die at any time. And most if not all will eventually die so spoilers mean not as much. Same thing goes with TWD, if someone posted on here that RICK DIES!!!!!, and you know some prick will put that in a title header, I would just say to myself...er OK no problem. I won't get too attached to any character, would have to see Tyrion get killed but I know the chances his character makes it to the end are zero lol.
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no fucking edit button dohhh
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March 25, 2012, 6:38 a.m. CST
American Here: Downton Abby season 1 was quite good, but season 2 had no balls.
by Dr_PepperSpray
Season 2 should have had harsher consequences, and elevated the show from simply one about British upper-class. That's what sets Game of Thrones apart from it's peers, it isn't afraid to kill or destroy people you really care about, while also making you really like characters you loathed moments earlier. <P> Oh, just wait till you non-readers gets a load of Ramsay Bolton. Ho'Ho. Oh, just you wait for season 3.
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I don't think anyone will be turned off by the level of fantasy that's coming, especially if they choose to keep it character based, or mystical. There are plenty of moments where fantasy is just implied, but teased just enough to also suggest that it's simply in that character's head. Some of the warging is very subtle, and Malisandra's magic can also be perceived as just tricks, all be it good ones. Granted, once we get to later books it becomes more apparent, but that's part of the series too, the rediscovery of some ancient magic. <P> Even still, there is more then enough grounded reality in the show for viewers to cling to.
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March 25, 2012, 6:55 a.m. CST
domi'sinnerchild: (More spoilers. Sorry, can't help myself here)
by Dr_PepperSpray
I would imagine that they will spend more time in season 2 really flushing out the Jayne / Rob love affair angle since Rob is hardly in book 2. They'll want to get more twilightish girly viewers attached to the show. <P> However they'll really have to stay the course come season 3, which is where the Red Wedding needs to live, not in season 2. If the producers don't chicken out, then the Red Wedding will be something to talk about, and you'll have people furious at the name Fray.
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March 25, 2012, 7:13 a.m. CST
i havde been avoiding watching THE WIRE to avoid being diasapointed due to the hype.
by AsimovLives
but then again i also heard a lot of phype regarding BREAKING BAD, and when i finally saw it i loved every frigging second of it.
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March 25, 2012, 9:19 a.m. CST
Honestly they could make Feast and Dance into one season without losing any of the really important stuff
by Sardonic
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I think they should do the same for Feast/Dance... film them back-to-back and spread it out over two seasons. But they should remove the geographical rift that separates the two books, and just map both books out chronologically. I think, if Martin had the chance to go back in time, he probably would've done it that way anyway. Personally, I loved "Feast," but I know a ton of a huge ASoIaF fans who didn't like it at all, and that could be a problem for HBO viewers, as well. So just smash the two books together to maintain the primary 'popular' characters as a constant presence on the show, rather than the 800-page disappearing act that Jon, Tyrion and Dany do in the books.
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That's one of the things that I love so much about the series... I literally have NO idea how it is going to end. Who will "win?" Will there even BE a winner? Who lives, who dies? I haven't even an inkling of an idea. Martin has me in the palm of his hand for however long it takes to complete the next two books.
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Relax, you can watch this unbelievably fantastic series without being disappointed. In fact, Wire has been accurately cited as a similar example of GoT in terms of interwoven plots and a cast of thousands.
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If that doesn't please you nothing (other than Breaking Bad... and other shows?) will
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March 25, 2012, 1:51 p.m. CST
TV suddenly got great again with Downton? Are you serious?
by david starling
It has all the hallmarks of some of the worst period dramas from the '80's and '90's that were made in the UK. It wasn't until Middlemarch and Price and Prejudice that the whole genre was any good again. There was a night on BBC2 many a moon ago, I belive it was called "TV Hell", and they had a right rip on period dramas, and how bad they were, when they really were bad. And Downton plays with the worst of them.
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those talking about the structure of GOT in the later seasons have it right. GRRM has explained and D&D have confirmed ASOS is being split into two seasons. It's after the RW however, things get dicey....WARNING SPOILERS BELOW Feast was for me as a fan of the books, a disappointment, due to both its pacing and its story (which is essentially "let's follow around Brienne in the neverending search for Arya" whom as readers know will never be found at least by her). ADWD while indeed a superior work, is still laying the groundwork for a larger conflict. Aside from the no doubt world altering event of Jon Snow being stabbed (though his fate remains unclear), Dany's storyline ended with an unsatisfying open end and the inevitable disappointment that Tyrion Lannister (who plays Huck Finn for the first half of the book) would finally meet her and there would perhaps be this sort of catharsis for their characters. With all this in mind, the real test of the show will come not in the 3rd or 4th season, where the real gutwrenching storylines are, but thereafter, where GRRM has essentially hit reset, having a bunch of characters get outright slain in the climax of ASOS.
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Is this the same special that's airing on HBO tonight (or, at least, the one on tonight on HBO Canada)?
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With all of the characters that ACOK introduces/focuses on (Davos, Melisandre, Stannis, Jaqen, Brienne, The Reeds, Balon, the Tyrells, Mance, Quorin, Xaro, Belwas, etc), I can see HBO eliminating/shortening some peoples stories. I haven't heard if the Reed kids have been cast but I could very easily see the Wildling chick with Bran assuming their role. Don't get me wrong, I like them in the books but being realistic, some things need to be streamlined. The show is for the masses, not just us hardcore book fans. I don't think we will see Melisandre birth the shadow to kill that one cat that Davos takes her to. I actually don't think we will see any 'birthing' at all. I see them having her conjure something up in the fire and send it on its way. Then again, once Renly gets his, that opens up room for another character to be spotlighted. I don't think we will see a lot of Brienne either this season. Sure, some small stuff and background shots, but I think that's it. I'm also of the belief that we wont see a whole lot of the Iron Islands. Probably just enough to see Theon out of sorts and then bolt for Winterfell in a bid to prove his worth. We will definitely see the sack of Winterfell, the death of Ser Rodrick and the rest, although probably just cutting from scene to scene. I wouldn't be suprised if we don't see the Boltons at all. The writers can always have Bran & Co escape while Theon is still in command, then have the Boltons turn on him later. I could see the last scene we see of Bran & Co for the season being Maester Luwin, dying, telling them to split up. In regards to Arya's story, I don't think we will see much of Rorge or Biter. Probably not The Tickler or Raff The Sweetling either, even though I would love to have seen her recite the names before going to bed. We will still need to see a decent amount of the Kings Landing Crew. Joffrey has to continue to be seen as the colossal prick he is, so that covers Sansa as well. Tyrion's pat this season is more of a lead actor so he will need to get a bulk as well. There is going to be a lot thrown at the viewer this season to process. Us book readers will be okay but there is going to be a lot for 'show only' fans. I think this is where each of the main characters season ends: Arya: Escaping from Harrenhal after Jaqen fulfills his oath. Jon: He is told to kill Quorin Stannis, Davos and Co: Blackwater Bay Tyrion: Injured at Blackwater Bay Pod: If intro'd, saving Tyrion Joffrey: In armor, well removed from the Blackwater Sansa: Being told she will not marry a Tyrell Brienne: Fleeing after Renly's death Catelyn: Releasing Jamie Robb: Marrying Jeyne, setting up the RW storyling Jamie: Being released by Catelyn Theon: Being warned by Yara (Asha) not to hold Winterfell, probably giving a somewhat cocky response, setting up Season 3 Bran, Rickon, etc: Escaping after seeing a dying Maester Luwin The Hound: Fleeing the Blackwater I dont have the books in front of me, so my timing of events may be a little off. Just my opionion. SER BRONN! Cersei:
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March 25, 2012, 6:03 p.m. CST
Concerns regarding the number of characters this season and beyond..
by Patrick
The expansive set of well developed characters in ASoIaF and GoT is definitely one of the defining attributes of the series. This is likely a very fortunate thing for the HBO production, and although the fans of the books are very happy and familiar with the depth of both the characters and the world of Westeros, I think there is some cause for concern. Obviously, the quality of the books has made it easier for the writers to adapt their screenplays for the show. Nearly everyone involved with GoT has commented on or praised the books for allowing the adaptation to be done very well and relatively easily. However, as we move into season 2, we are probably going to see more deviations from the books. HBO is obviously focused on the success of the TV show, and this is with little to no concern for GoT's faithfulness to the books. While this does not matter for the TV-only fans, the readers of the books might find some unwelcome surprises, such as their favorite minor character being left out. We saw some of this in season 1, and it is inevitably going to continue. Some of you mentioned that the production will probably abbreviate some subplots, such as those revolving around the Boltons, the Greyjoys, or even the Martells. I am curious to see what the reaction will be when we come across more and more of these situations. It really depends on what percentage of show viewers are also readers of the books (any guesses? I have no idea). If the writers keep up the quality that we have come to expect, I think I can overlook these changes, but if they mess with the Martells, I, for one, will be pretty disappointed.
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I think you're wrong on a few things there. Roose Bolton has already been casted, for one thing, and I think we will absolutely be seeing Mel's shadowbaby...there's a shot that has appeared in several of the trailers that shows her face apparently topless (obviously you don't see her boobs) with her head back moaning in a dark location...if that ain't shadowbaby-birthing, then I'm be a monkey's uncle.
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The only reason I dont think thats Melisandre birthing is that in one of the trailers we see what I believe to be her locking lips with Stannis. I think the show is gonna show them as an item, and that scene would be them getting it on. While its not stated in the books, I dont believe it was stated about Loras and Renly either but they went there. Has there been any word on if Stannis' wife has been cast? Thanks for the Roose Bolton heads up. I hadn't heard, but wasn't it Ramsay, his bastard who flipped the script on Theon? Wasn't Roose at Harrenhal during that time, getting leeched by Arya?
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The promo was great but it was more recap than teaser. Which is probably for the best but was still disappointing. Here's the thing about the best shows ever. There can be more than one. We're not playing Highlander rules. The Wire...yeah, is probably my boringly predictable pick for number one. Each of the first four seasons is better than the last, and even though the fifth season lost its way a little the finale was very strong. I've rewatched it more than anyone should. But on a given day, after watching a particular episode, I might just think Deadwood or Breaking Bad was even better. And would I argue with someone who said The Sopranos or Rome or BSG or Mad Men or Twin Peaks or Buffy or The Shield or Justified? Maybe a little about them deserving the very top spot, but only a little. In their different ways they were/are all great television and I enjoyed them all. And I'm sure I'm missing a bunch too, not even to mention the comedies, because that's a little too apples and oranges. The Sopranos got awful flabby and self indulgent in its later seasons but its first season is pretty much perfect. Rome, though rushed and only two seasons long was lush and brilliantly acted. When Lynch was directly involved with Twin Peaks the show was as good as anything ever has and probably ever will be. The season five finale of Buffy was one of the best series finales ever made, marred only by the fact that the show limped on, a mangled mess, for two more years. Justified has gotten better every season. Game of Thrones? I'm not going to put it on that list yet, not after one season. But seeing what they did in the first season, knowing how faithful they're being to the spirit of the books, and knowing what the books have in store... ...yeah, I think it's going to be there soon.
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...as long as we make it to those books I will be ecstatic. And yeah, piecing together the last two books will probably be a pain and those books certainly contain more filler but then again that may make them easier to adapt while staying true to the spine of the story.
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March 25, 2012, 7:28 p.m. CST
Thought I was a big GoT fan until I read this talkback! Some of you people like ashokforgiven are insane!
by Tim
Thrones is sick, but damn, calling the Wire a snooze-fest, comparing Boardwalk Empire to Fast & Furious...What??? That doesn't make sense in any way. HBO has had so much excellent series with Sopranos, Deadwood, The Wire, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Boardwalk Empire, Game of Thrones...they all have their own style, and some of them might not be for everybody. I think GoT has proven it has the right to stand among the elite, but it's not above them, and the first season was not, repeat NOT flawless.
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March 25, 2012, 7:44 p.m. CST
Also, she basically says she's giving birth in an interview outright:
by Sardonic
But if you're making love in a film, you gotta take the bra off. Same if you're birthing a shadow.
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March 25, 2012, 7:47 p.m. CST
But yes joesomebody, there's definitely something fishy about what's happening with Roose
by Sardonic
There's a fairly accepted rumor (I'm not sure why it's accepted but everyone seems to be buying into it) that Arya's scenes at Harrenhal with Roose will be replaced with Tywin. Some of the shots in the trailers kind of make sense with this as well. Assuming it's true, my only guess is that Roose will take the place of Ramsay in Theon's story at Winterfell, at least for now (it makes sense that the showrunners wouldn't want to cast Ramsay yet, since he won't have a whole lot to do for at least one or two seasons).
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Hmmm, that's pretty interesting. I don't think I would have a problem with them switching Tywin for Roose at Harrenhal. That plays in with the 'streamlining' that they may be doing. As far as Ramsay, they definitely don't need to cast him yet, in my opinion, as long as they keep the double cross of Theon for next season. Even after that, you're right, there really isn't much for him to do for a while. They could always have Roose play that part even if they do the double cross this season. Either way, I'm pretty excited for the upcoming season. As much of a hardcore fan of fantasy I can be, I usually don't have a problem with omissions and changes. For example, with LOTR, I was fine with 99.9% of everything they did. I'm just glad we get to see these great books on the screen, be it TV or movie. We're just lucky that we're in a time where these types of movies can be done better justice. Where do you think each major character's 'season' will end?
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Has never got the full credit it is due because it was only about the third season that the real genius behind its arc became clear, even though it grabbed you before. And you have to watch it from start to finish to really appreciate the achievement. Most critics don't have time to do that until after a show is over - and anyway their editors tell them to catch the shows getting the ratings. It's the same problem right now for Justified. Come to that half way through and you'll be more confused than a casual Lost viewer. As for critics worth their salt... erm. I'd start with those who have at least a couple of shows on their lists that are more than 20 years old. You know. The Rockford Files, perhaps. Hill Street Blues. And you can go back beyond that. Twilight Zone, anyone?
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The Simpsons is more than 20 years old. But hopefully you get my drift. 'Great' TV is not only subjective but also stretches back much further than most Top 10 lists acknowledge - partly because they are written to satisfy readers who are only familiar with 'current' (OK 'recent') shows.
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in one of the video promo we can see roose walking with robb in the camp. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcT6ZGqlSsY&list=PL9885E7606438C995&index=5&feature=plpp_video
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Seriously, when that show ended, I was left depressed - thinking that there is no possible way anything could match the unparalleled genius of that show. And make no mistake, it is genius – the most insightful, honest and intelligent piece of television ever crafted. </p> </p> It's really depressing when you've reached the pinnacle and there's nowhere else to go but down.</p> </p> IMO, Breaking Bad is at the top of the current crop of television greats - it's within sight of The Wire, but is unlikely to surpass it. I also love GoT and Boardwalk Empire. Was shattered when Deadwood ended early, and am also currently loving the shit out of Spartacus.</p> </p> Yup - it really is a wonderful age to be wathng television, but still, nothing has come close to the greatness of The Wire, and I wouldn't be surprised if nothing ever does again. It's just one of those rare things that operates on another level.
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And I really wanted to like Game of Thrones. All the characters featured in season 1 of Game of Thrones will be killed at some point. The entire House of Stark will be slaughtered at some point in season three. The boy king is murdered. His real father is captured and murdered. Even the dwarf gets mutilated and married to Boromir Stark's oldest daughter. And the subplot with the blonde chick who was porking Conan? Probably isn't going to be resolved until the final book. Maybe. As of book five she's still just tooling around with her little dragons plotting an eventual invasion of Westeroes. Don't get too fond of this series. It doesn't really seek to meet its potential and by season three I imagine most people will be ignoring it.
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March 26, 2012, 1:13 a.m. CST
Spoilers above - don't read eveelcapitalists post if you haven't read the books.
by Happyfat73
What a douche.
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I second the douche comment and add uber to the front and canon to the end.
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It peaked at Xander saving the universe by just loving his best friend. Knew nothing was going to be better than season 6 after that scene--and I was right.
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March 26, 2012, 7:53 a.m. CST
eveelcapitalist tries to be an asshole and can't even do that right
by Tim
Even if you read the spoilers, many of them are wrong, as half the people he said died are still alive. As for judging the series, how about you wait until it's finished?
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That's hardly 'sudden'. And Lost was great for a time. And 24. Not to mention the AMC shows. Even The Wire has only been gone for about four years. Really, you act like there have been no good hour-longs since the late 90s.
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March 26, 2012, 9:20 a.m. CST
Dotrice is great on the first three books, horrific on book five
by bah
The guy is 89, it's not his fault. But he sounds like he's falling asleep. And every woman now sounds like a creaky old crone, even the sexy ones. John Lee takes a lot of shit over book four, but I think that's mostly bitterness over Dotrice not reading it. I thought he was very good. Brienne's encounter with the Bloody Mummers in particular is excellent.
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perfect. S5 with the fake serial killer shit and the crappy Journalist storyline was less than brilliant. Nor in S4 where at first the fat Desk cop refuses to let Bunk search the other buildings for bodies. I mean WTF I dont care how lazy/corrupt or stupid they are no cop would do that. Otherwise yeah it was great
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Dig up the GoT thread from a few days ago, the one with the five videos. A comment near the end of the thread points out a pretty big moment in Theon's video. Once you know that's there, you'll see there's a moment in the video with riders entering a castle, and Theon's face turning from triumph to confusion.
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Delivered by Rickan when he returns with SHAGGY DOG. I'm half serious. It makes me uneasy that a character named Shaggy Dog exists, especially since he's been out of sight of so long now.
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It's a tiny sliver of levity in an other grim, grim world. It just shows that even though you're expected to act like an adult warrior from the age of like 5, Rickon was still just a little boy when all this started. Shaggy Dog is a fucking awesome name.
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March 26, 2012, 9:44 a.m. CST
I agree that it's a little piece of innocence in a crushingly dark world
by bah
But still.
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Because Bran isn't that big of a pussy and it felt like it went against his life as a Stark. Or maybe Bran really is that big of a pussy. But Ghost, Nymeria and Grey Wind are all suitably awesome, Shaggy Dog is fun and innocent, and Lady is just...so very Sansa. Summer is the only that I was ever like...ehhh, really? It felt like it was trying to be thematic over what bran would actually name his killer wolf. we're being super nitpicky right now though
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March 26, 2012, 11:27 a.m. CST
No, I agree with that also. Teh Stark motto is "Winter is Coming" and he names it Summer?
by bah
Well, maybe it will make sense by the end. Bran is my least favorite of all the POV characters, but I fear that ultimately, he's central to it all.
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Tough to say really, I think most of them will end generally around where they end with the second book, though I definitely think a few of them will be moved up. I have a feeling Jon's story might move past the books, possibly even up to his meeting with Mance (a while back there was some Scandanavian dude that cast, but no one knows what for, but he looked like a perfect Mance). Dany also might have her ending altered/moved up a little bit, since there's really not a whole lot of stuff for her to do. We'll definitely see Davos getting thrown into jail at the end, since the actress playing Mel said in an interview that she "gets to throw Liam Cunningham in jail".
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Seriously... HBO fanboys aside how can anyone in their right mind call the whole media plot with McNulty and the serial killer remotely good writing? The season just sort of fizzled out, compared to the end of The Shield or Six Feet Under I thought it was pretty underwhelming. It wasn't terrible but it didn't exactly blow me out of my chair either.
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With the many awards this show is being nominated for, with a good number of them being won, gives me hope HBO will stick with it. Though unless GRRMartin gets hustling with book 6, HBO is going to hit a wall they can't overcome. It will be interesting to see how the show addresses the growing up of Anya, Bran, Joffrey, and his younger brother.
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I agree there is likely to be some abbreviating... but HBO can't abbreviate too much, or they'll hit the wall that is No More Books To Pull From. I believe I saw speculation that book 3 could be split into 2 seasons, B4 is concurrent in world-time for 2/3 of Bk5, but then there's nothing else to draw on. Meaning GRRM has at best, 4years to grind out the next book. And only 3 if one or more of the books aren't split into 2 seasons. But they can't abbreviate too many of the subplots, or pieces will be missing as the main plots move forward.
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In my opinion 1 and 3 are the best, 4 is nearly, nearly as brilliant, 2 is great but such a change of pace after 1 it throws you a bit, and then 5. But being the least great season of what is the greatest visual storytelling vehicle I know of is nothing to scoff at. Yes, the journalism storyline gets glossed over a little bit and you don't come to care about them as much because, by that point, there are the cops, the criminals, the dockworkers, the politicians, AND the school kids who have all been serviced story wise in an exceptional way. So yea, one group, the last group introduced, gets shafted a little bit. It's a still fascinating and necessary facet of the workings of a city, and I found it insightful, if not as revelatory as the others. The serial killer storyline....sigh....look, we all know its the most "fantastical" unrealistic thing that happens on the whole show, and it almost, sort of doesn't fit in with the rest of the show in that sense. But its still fun. It's not horrible, that's for certain. It's a hell of a lot better than the best thing that happens on plenty of other shitty shows. So yea, I'll defend it, to an extent. But the fact is the first 4 seasons are so brilliant, and the final 2 or 3 episodes, specifically the finale -30-, is so brilliant, and backs up again to include all the other story lines from the previous seasons in a beautiful way, and wraps them up and sends the show on its way in such wonderful fashion that its hard for me to understand anyone saying season 5 hurts the show so much its not the best show ever. I love the end of the wire. I love all the characters. I love that they managed to make Marlo, a character i originally found not only loathsome, but also just another drug dealer of whom I had doubts I would ever really enjoy as a character, into one of the most memorable characters, and most telling finale scenes, in the whole thing. I love that stringer bell is one of the most iconic characters ever put on television, and he's singularly identified with the wire, and he was only on the show for two and a half seasons. It's a brilliant show. Rant over.
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March 26, 2012, 2:47 p.m. CST
@vawitch, Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. The Waaaaalt! Problem
by bah
The first five books span, what, two years? There are a few very important kids in the story who have to stay kids. Maybe Arya will be a fast learner in the House of Black & White....
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I am more inclined to agree with you than insist that HBO takes only the "juicy" plots and fleshes them out. Just like you said, many of these subplots are indeed intertwined with the each other and the main storyline (if there even is a MAIN one), so it makes sense for the show to include as much of these as possible if the production was looking to avoid potential plot holes. With all of that said, there is a precedence that has been set which is worrisome as we continue down the line. A lot of controversy has surrounded Ros (Roz) and the great lengths David and Dan are taking the character. As many people know, she does not exist in the books, and furthermore, many of her scenes are the ones that draw the most complaint and are also the source of the term "sexposition". What more can we expect from these changes and this character? Up to this point, I think it has not been too detrimental to the show at all, but what if there is a snowball effect? Although this is speculation, many fans are expecting her to place some minor characters from the books, and if that happens, that sort of tendency could become more the rule rather than the exception. I should say again that, so far, there is not really much to worry about as the show has done very well for itself in spite of the changes. In my opinion, it really seems sensible for the show to include as much content from the books as they can, even if they fall behind the books in terms of seasons. This gives GRRM more time to write and avoid feeling rushed. Anyway, the "fall behind" is pretty much inevitable if they keep the number of seasons at ten. These books only get longer and longer, especially ASoS and ADwD. Now if they increase the number of episodes per season, maybe this will give them more incentive to be even more thorough with their book coverage. I imagine it is difficult for the production to negotiate longer seasons since HBO has a tendency to be really frugal with its shows' budgets. However, GoT is as about as successful as they can possibly be at this point in time, and that popularity should grow (knocks on wood). Therefore, my anxiety regarding the show's survival is pretty low for the time being. Ultimately, the TV show itself is just icing on the cake for me. I am content with the books, so whatever happens with the show happens. I should not care about it so much. Sometimes, you just cannot help yourself as a fan, you know?
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...well said, sir. Well said.
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March 26, 2012, 4:45 p.m. CST
2 new game of thrones videos on youtube. the faces of season 2 an the locations
by amin
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flIHsZvC1SU&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww6rFGkU_44&feature=player_embedded
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I liked everything about it...except the serial killer shit. Every minute of screentime that got annoyed the shit out of me. Everything else was great though, loved the finale. The last shot of Marlo was too good.
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is everyone's response to it. Particularly Bunk.
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"The bigger the lie, the more they believe." and the serial killer story played right into that.
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Straight off the top of my head: Breaking Bad is sensational. Given that they finished season four as if the show was ending (they weren't sure it would be renewed when it was written) I really hope they don't make a meal of it these last episodes. The Shield was great. The last season blew me the fuck away. The episode where Shane was exposed by the guy he hired had my heart pounding and nervous as hell. Everything from that point onwards was as good as it gets. Game of Thrones and Boardwalk Empire are both good. I thought the second season of BE was better than the first but they killed off who I thought was the best character so where it'll go who knows. I thought the first season of Prison Break was good, everything after that though was either awful or just ridiculous. Lost and The Sopranos were both great but over stayed their welcome a little. I've got The Wire at home but have never really watched it. Mad Men is the same. I plan on plowing through both soon though. Like someone else mentioned, I'm scared to watch The Wire because of the hype it's gotten at times.
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I am a huge GoT fan, but putting them in any discussion about the best TV series is ludicrous (not the rapper, not the speed). While I do believe it's the best show on tv right now, I think that a show has to complete its run before its ever discussed as a possible best ever. Things can go bad *cough X FILES cough* along the way. Here's my Top 5 current and All Time: CURRENT Game of Thrones Justified The Walking Dead Hawaii 5-0 The League All Time The Wire Seinfeld The Sopranos LOST Cheers Just my opinion :)
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I'm sorry, but that really ruins your list. You can enjoy the show, I do. I've watched every episode. But its fucking terrible overall. I would never let it touch a best of list. I know its opinion and all...but that show is falling woefully below its own potential. Paper thin characters, repetitive story lines, boring ass episodes. I just had to bitch because it shocked me that anyone actually think its a great show. i thought we all just watched it because its good enough and has zombies every week
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March 26, 2012, 11:21 p.m. CST
joesomebody you need to go buy Breaking Bad seasons 1-3 on DVD. Like, now.
by Tim
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seen Breaking Bad but from everything I hear, it's great and I plan on getting around to it. Work dictates a lot of what I get to watch regularly so some things are not an option. Mad Men, from everything I hear also is great but I am late to the party on that and will have to play catch up. As for TWD, I am a huge fan of post apocalyptic fiction. Is TWD flawed? Most certainly. Do I still enjoy it? Very much so. I also am a huge fan of the comic so that may play into it as well. I try to be glass half full with it. Yes, there are problems with the show, but I still really enjoy it. For reference, some current shows I have never watched a single episode of, not for lack of liking though: Breaking Bad Mad Men Shameless Person of Interest House Fringe 30 Rock Parks & Rec Burn Notice Downton Abbey American Dad Bobs Burgers Homeland Finally, some shows I currently watch on a (usually) regular basis: Breakout Kings Once Upon a Time Alcatraz GoT Life's Too Short Dexter It's Always Sunny The Office Eastbound & Down NCIS Archer Flyers games Jim Rome is Burning Phillies games Live Boxing/MMA when it is on (not PPV)
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The reason The Wire didn't get the Emmy love is because most of the cast was black, and the story lines were about black criminals. Liberals can be racists too believe it or not.
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March 27, 2012, 12:57 p.m. CST
Nothing matters, huh? Is this the ME3 developer motto or the Take Back ME3 motto?
by Baked
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How baked are you?
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