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Joss Whedon Is Talking THE AVENGERS 2 Already As Well As Iron Man's Suit

The Kidd here...

May 4 is rapidly approaching, and, while none of us geeks have had a chance to see anything of THE AVENGERS beyond the trailers, that's not stopping director Joss Whedon from looking down the line and discussing what he'd like to see out of THE AVENGERS 2. Whoa whoa whoa... slow down there, Joss.

In an interview with SFX (via Digital Spy), Whedon explained that he'd like a sequel to be "smaller. More personal, more painful... Not just a rehash of what seemed to work the first time." He also explained that for THE AVENGERS, he did his best to give each superhero the screen time necessary to show what makes them stand out as individual characters, not just a part of this epic unit. 

"I want to know what makes them tick, what makes them flawed, what makes them fight - and ultimately, what makes them awesome. I go to these movies for those moments when the heroes define themselves, either through action or deliciously overwritten speeches." 

Ummm... isn't that what the solo movies were for...?

As for the Iron Man suit that is at the heart of fans bitching - triangle versus circle - Whedon is quick to explain to Empire that the suit goes through some "wear and tear" throughout the films, which is why mutliple versions of the suit have existed since the initial one in the first IRON MAN. However, he doesn't hide his feelings on which suit he prefers, and he's made it quite known to Marvel, which is sure to carry some brownie points with the long-time Iron Man fans.

"Marvel said, 'We like to see the suits evolve,'" he explains, "and I said, "Great! Then you're going back to the circle because the triangle is ass'. I'm a classicist. The circle has meaning, the triangle does not."

I'm feeling a little better that Whedon has been looking out for the fans and not just merchandising possibilities... 

How about you?


-Billy Donnelly

"The Infamous Billy The Kidd"

Follow me on Twitter.

Readers Talkback
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  • March 9, 2012, 1:27 p.m. CST




  • March 9, 2012, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Cuz there is a lot of suit talk right there...

    by TheKiller7

  • March 9, 2012, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Sort out Hawkeyes costume first...

    by paint163

    ...Rather than worrying about circles and triangles.

  • March 9, 2012, 1:28 p.m. CST

    I never liked the triangle either.

    by eric haislar

    But It was never a huge problem that I bitched about. You mean fan boys are bitching about that too?

  • March 9, 2012, 1:29 p.m. CST

    isn't the triangle..

    by foree forehead

    ..the "strongest" geometrical shape in nature or something like that? i like the circle too, it's iron man

  • March 9, 2012, 1:30 p.m. CST

    I really thought I was the only one that LOVED THE CIRCLE!

    by StarQrtrs

    Finally, I realize I'm not alone. F the triangle.

  • March 9, 2012, 1:32 p.m. CST

    I'm more concerned about the cinematography than I am the costumes

    by Samuel Fulmer

    From the trailers it looks preaty bad, like made for tv bad.

  • I always loved the magical look of Tony's skin-tight smooth armour.

  • Shouldn't he have a triangle IM suit in The Avengers, for continuity's sake? If during the events in Iron Man 2, he discovered that new element that's allowed him to sort of change the way the suit draws power (I guess), since the old way was slowly killing him, and as we see in the movie, that new element is triangle shaped, and all of his IM activity in the rest of Part 2 is then with that suit, and The Avengers takes place after all of that, shouldn't he still be using the triangle suit?

  • March 9, 2012, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Triangle = Flames on Optimus. Silver Surfer = too silvery. Iron Man = too irony.

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

    Yayyyyyy! Woola = not wooly enough

  • March 9, 2012, 1:38 p.m. CST


    by BlueLando

    Hard to respond with out spoiling, but... Let's just say that The Avengers doesn't take place immediately after Iron Man 2.

  • March 9, 2012, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Circle Cult Dipshits

    by Mickster_Island

  • March 9, 2012, 1:43 p.m. CST

    THE TRIANGLE IS ASS should be the next T-Shirt at snorgtees.

    by Royston Lodge

  • A true classicist for sure.

  • March 9, 2012, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Same here, ledergrant

    by Mickster_Island

    I think our conversation topics are just above their intellectual levels.

  • March 9, 2012, 1:48 p.m. CST

    still hoping

    by fred

    some construction workers get hit by Loki's magic and set up the Wrecking Crew for the sequel.

  • March 9, 2012, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Fix the bad CGI for the second part! Damn it!

    by Johan

  • March 9, 2012, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Honestly, I skipped Iron Man 2 cos it looked like so much senseless action.

    by Mickster_Island

    A good action sequel can be awesome IF it uses its unique position as an exposition-free zone. Star Trek 2 is the best example probably. There is lot of action in that film, but it's all punctuated by the first half and final 1/4 of the movie musing about getting old.

  • March 9, 2012, 1:54 p.m. CST

    They've got a shit-ton of Avengers toys out now

    by Jaster Mareel

    I just bought a Hulk figure for my son. The thing that really stuck out to me was that the Cap helmet is fucking COOL on the action figure! It's the same, it just actually fits his fucking head instead of bizarro brow ridges and sticking out from his head like a retard helmet.

  • March 9, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST

    And excuse me Joss, but I don't want my Avengers sequel to be =painful=

    by Jaster Mareel

    Yeah that's all we need, the king of quips trying to do hardcore melodrama so he can be taken seriously. It's not like it's completely impossible for him, I fucking love Dr. Horrible, but I just want the goddamn movie to be a fun romp for my son and I. I don't want to see Cap curled up in a fucking ball on the floor crying.

  • March 9, 2012, 1:57 p.m. CST

    new suit

    by Leigh Meacham

    Bet Stark still wears the mark 6 from IM2 (Triangle), but gets his ass whooped and builds a Mark 7 that goes back to the circle! As for a sequel, either Ultron or the Masters of Evil! Also don't shrink it down: Go big or go home!

  • March 9, 2012, 2:01 p.m. CST

    The triagle is indees assy.

    by daggor

    Fuck you, Marvel. The circle is part of the iconic look of the character.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:11 p.m. CST


    by The Infamous Billy The Kidd

    The solo movies should be where a lot of that character development comes in though. You can't expect an ensemble piece that features 7 different characters to have enough time to really get into those elements of the characters that should already be established. What makes the Hulk tick? If you don't have a pretty good sense of that after two full-length solo movies, then one small segment of a bigger film isn't going to be able to capably fill in those blanks.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:11 p.m. CST

    Origin stories of superheroes are usually pretty solid stories.

    by Mickster_Island

    For a bunch of the characters, their origin story is the only solid story they've got.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Changing the shape of the unibeam len in IM's armor

    by KilliK

    does not constitute an technological evolution. Best IM armor was the modular one because it follows one of the basic canons of the open source technology: you adapt the technology so that it can satisfy your personal needs and make it usable to your own likings. Best example of this philosophy is the Chrome/Firefox/Linux oper source software.Or the hacking of proprieraty devices like the android phones or the videogames console which unlock their fullest potential. This is how an IM armor should work.

  • Really love the battle in progress way of starting a film. It makes the world seem even larger.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:18 p.m. CST


    by Gabe Athouse

    You can tell that the major theme of this movie is that each of the main characters is coming with some major baggage that makes it difficult for the team to come together. Stories require these kinds of conflict, or they're G.I. Joe: The Motion Picture. Also, it should have been "my son and me." For god's sake, I can only imagine what grammar you're teaching the poor kid.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:20 p.m. CST

    We do want 'painful', even if we think we don't.

    by MrSandwich

    Of course this doesn't mean Capt America curled up and crying. But we have to see things happen to the characters that test their heroism. <br><br>Empire Strikes Back was painful. Attack of the Clones was not. <br><br>[Well, okay, it was, but for the wrong reasons.] <br><br>Capeesh?

  • It's only been tweaked slightly since the first Iron Man. Something like how it looks in the comics now would be neat. And, of course, nothing beats the briefcase armor. Yeah, I'm a nerd. Now just get Cap's helmet from WWII and we're looking good....

  • March 9, 2012, 2:24 p.m. CST

    Here's how you make a great Avengers movie...

    by Mickster_Island

    Just remake Dirty Dozen. Or Great Escape. Or Magnificent Seven. And give each of the heroes a flaw: one's a wimp, one's a creep, one's too easily enraged, etc. Don't worry about originality, worry about telling a good story well. Nazis = Skrull Avengers = trapped in a Skrull prison Thor = James Garner Hulk = Charles Bronson Iron Man = James Coburn Cap = Attenborough I don't know how the roles work. Just do it! You have three excellent templates for this film.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:26 p.m. CST

    I also thought I was the only one to dislike the triangle.

    by David

    Go Joss! That said, the only way, I think, to make a huge ensemble movie like this succeed is to give them a mission where each character shines as well as moments where their hubris fucks them up and their team. Having all 7 characters have their "character" moments (not to mention the bad guys) is just not feasible and asking for a "Iron Man 2"-like script with too many character moments and only 2 action scenes!

  • March 9, 2012, 2:33 p.m. CST

    They should have let Whedon write the script, but not direct

    by Billy_D_Williams

    The Avengers is a very bland looking movie...great action, but the cinematography is not epic like it should be. I honestly think somebody like Michael Bay with Whedon's script would've knocked this out of the park. Bay has that epic, all American style perfectly suited for comic books. Hell even Jon Favs would've been a better choice to direct. They really needed a cinematic director for this and they fucked up...I don't think the movie will be bad, but I will always wonder what could have been.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:35 p.m. CST

    I don't think anyone was "bitching" about the triangle

    by rev_skarekroe

    I think some people were confused because he replaced the circle with the triangle in Iron Man II and he's back to the circle for Avengers. That said, I prefer the circle, too. Somebody should let Whedon do a Batman movie and maybe he'll give us back the yellow oval. Yeah, I know it's less realistic, but it looks cooler.

  • Though I'm secretly hoping they spin off the Great Lakes Avengers, too.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:44 p.m. CST

    batman should have armor

    by foree forehead

    seriously, with retractable rocket-wing things instead of a cape. he's this super-gadgety sci-fi noir detective but he has to jump around and use a rope? (referring to the comics here) dc do love capes on their heroes eh?

  • March 9, 2012, 2:45 p.m. CST

    No triangle? How about a lava lamp?

    by ChakaMudd

  • yep.

  • Tony looked like a mantis with that shit.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:50 p.m. CST

    theseeker7 - Iron Man starts out with the triangle RT

    by Crestfallen

    and then switches/reverts back during the course of the film. You can see the triangle in some of the images/trailers from Avengers.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:51 p.m. CST

    Hoping for a good story always......

    by DavidBanner

    Whedon has said that this is Cap's movie. That was a good sign to me. He's the one most out of his element because he is out of his time and yet best to lead a group of diverse personalities. That's why he is the leader. I hope that comes through in the film. The other character moments can come through the bringing together of the huge egos of Stark and Thor and the hesitation of Banner to unleash the beast. And then Cap's got to make them fight as a team. And if Hawkeye is done right, he'll be very brash and unyielding in his methods. Add Black Widow to the mix as one who probably thinks she works best alone. There are some real possibilities for storytelling. And personally I think after Serenity (although I had some issues with it) Whedon has shown he has promise on a larger scale. We'll see in May.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Avengers too big for movies?

    by Tim

    Theres so many characters it's almost made for TV since it would be a great weekly series and tells lots o different stories.

  • March 9, 2012, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Iron Man fans demand a trapezoid in Iron Man 2.

    by Royston Lodge


  • March 9, 2012, 2:58 p.m. CST

    ...but I'd settle for a dead bird on Iron Man's head.

    by Royston Lodge

    Damn, I'm funny.

  • March 9, 2012, 3:01 p.m. CST

    Why is Bruce Banner dressed to the nines....

    by Nik

    ...and hiding out in a shack?

  • March 9, 2012, 3:03 p.m. CST


    by Chris

  • March 9, 2012, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Hey spewbacca

    by NightArrows

    Deliciously over-written speeches are commonplace in comics, so Whedon isn't pulling that out of thin air.

  • March 9, 2012, 3:06 p.m. CST

    The triangle is pussy

    by BooCocky

    The ass is on the other side. Get it straight.

  • March 9, 2012, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Kidd thinks he knows better than Joss Whedon

    by aTwenty7thLetter

    Yeah... I know. So do a lot of other outspoken talkbackers who jump to conclusions based on a few sentences. They're just as annoying.

  • Triangles ^ work as warnings in road traffic signs in the uk so i am just thinking is more boss than the o shape.

  • then it will be a perfect avengers movie aesthetically

  • March 9, 2012, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Armie Hammer for JLA's Superman!

    by UltimaRex

    Yes I know it's not related. No I don't care. I don't care about triangles and circles on Iron Man. And I trust Joss to make a good movie. Not as much as Nolan but hey...

  • ether way it looks like if marvel doesn't boot whedon off avengers 2, that well be getting a Adaptation of Civil War, a loose one i hope, for outside of steve mcnivens fantastic art(iron man vs cap was breathtakingly rendered, reminded me of sups vs batman in dark knight returns,this moment as well as when he boldly strided up to challenge Thanos/God in "Infinity Gauntlet" made me a cap fan for life) the core fundamentals that brought the conflict into motion/fruition were just too "Hacky" for my taste, pure shit.I love the idea of Steve and tonys friendship coming 2 a end the way it did , it seems like a natural development given the competitive chemistry between their individual personality's, but do we need the 911 war on terror patriot act shit,(super human registration act), im mean seriously,if half the population is comprised of mutants super beings ETC. do u think there just going 2 let themselves be escorted away 2 some negative zone concentration camps,by some knock kneed, jealous humans?!? there would be war in the streets !!!"Epic war"!!! all over the country much less the world,this was the same lack of imagination/logic of that made x-3 so unbearable 2 watch, (i know i went off topic but its something that buggs me when i go see these film)

  • March 9, 2012, 3:44 p.m. CST

    I'd rather see Cap's costume tweaked more like the traditional 616.

    by Chuck_Chuckwalla

    And yes, helmet for Thor. I don't understand why he wears only wore it for a coronation ceremony and never when going into battle. WTF indeed.

  • March 9, 2012, 3:48 p.m. CST

    I just want to know when did IM suit get the

    by Warren

    jets on the upper back? I don't recall seeing those before (in the movies)

  • March 9, 2012, 3:54 p.m. CST

    Classic costume for me..

    by jellypop

    all the way. I'm trying hard not to jump on the Joss bandwagon but I agree. I never liked the upgrade of the costume from the comics with the futuristic/cyber like suit the worst. The circle is king and indeed the triangle is ass.

  • March 9, 2012, 3:56 p.m. CST

    The triangle...

    by tailhook

    Marvel has to sell 'new' Iron Man toys while attempting to outdate the old.

  • March 9, 2012, 4:14 p.m. CST

    About john carter..

    by TheAwareness

    unrelated topic,,do u guys think disney "cgied" andrew stantons birthday party pics 2 make it look like he was a "lifetime" carter fan?..his lov of the property always felt kinda forced 2 me ,and given the budget and the studio invoked, i wouldn't be surprised if they would try something so underhanded and to the moderater who editis the Anti-Empire stuff from my post..when ever i post please stop,,,i know u guys are based in Texas but dont forget that this is still America

  • March 9, 2012, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Balls to the wall villians.

    by tj donkey show

    I hope the sequel features a really powerful villain. Give us Ultron, Thanos, or better still Dr. Doom (yeah, I know part of Fox's deal involving the FF and all that blah blah blah), Dr. Doom would fucking rule.

  • March 9, 2012, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Who the F would want Michael Bay Direct this over Whedon

    by Phategod2

    Let me be clear I wouldn't let Michael Bay, direct my penis into a Victoria secret models cooch. There's is no worst director for this especially with this cast. Michael Bay can't direct actors, he can tell Bruce Willis to act like Bruce Willis, or Will smith and Martin Lawrence to act like Will Smith and Martin Lawrence, but how do you tell Chris Evens or Chris Hemsworth to act there characters there not character actors. Michael is the dumbest suggestion for any to make unless you want the movie to be 2 1/2 hour of mindless shit blowing up.

  • March 9, 2012, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Billy you are wrong bud..

    by ckone

    It is extremely possible to have one character be so well defined in one specific scene, that you get the entire meaning of that character from that ONE moment , be it ensemble film or solo act. For example, the Hulk, in both feature films, he sure looked like the Hulk, and got angry like the Hulk, and did Hulk like things...BUT that ONE image of the Hulk leaping through the air, being hit by shrapnel and other debris, while then catching a falling battle ravaged iron man?? You can do away with all other versions of the Hulk, cause that's the one I wanna see!!! Se what I mean, Whedon got the character of the Hulk in that ONE moment , exactly how he should be...

  • wants to make the sequel to The Avengers SMALLER? Are you kidding me? Whedon, just stay in TV. You may have your fans fooled, but eventually even they will tire of your repetitive storytelling. You know 1) There will be an apocalypse 2) A female who physically has no business throwing around people twice her size will kick everyone's ass 3) To elicit an emotional response you'll kill off a major character in a random out of the blue way 4) One liners/quips that may be funny in the moment that are eyerolling when heard again.

  • Why did the "No Ghost" logo have two fingers on their signage and patches? Sure they were shut down and re-opened but having those two fingers is almost like breaking the fourth wall. Had they kept the two fingers to just promo material like posters and trailers that's fine but to actually have the change in the movie? That I don't get. Maybe they were being all meta and the two fingers represents the peace sign being as GB2 is about pure concentrated evil in the form of mood slime? What was this talkback about again? Oh ya. Iron Man circle. Anyone know why they changed to to a triangle in the first place? Looks dumb. Like in Ghostbusters 2 when they changed the "no ghost" logo.. Oh right covered that already. Ummm woozal wuzzle?

  • March 9, 2012, 4:35 p.m. CST

    Give fuckin part 2 to Guy Ritchie.

    by JackSlater4

  • March 9, 2012, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Iron Man 2 kinda ruined Tony's arc from the first movie

    by Crimson Dynamo

    In 2 he was right back to being a dipshit again despite all that he went thru in the first outing

  • March 9, 2012, 4:41 p.m. CST


    by Media Messiah

    Fine critique Whedon all you want, but at least see Avengers first. I love Whedon's work, though I had some major problems with Dollhouse...and sometimes Angel, but Buffy and Firefly/Serenity were largely great, to beyond great...and in my view, if given a chance by Hollywood, Whedon will prove himself to be, in part, the next Spielberg, Lucas, and Rod Sering at their very best, with a twist of his whimsical writing and directing style.

  • March 9, 2012, 4:46 p.m. CST


    by JackSlater4

  • March 9, 2012, 4:46 p.m. CST

    media messiah He HAS been given a chance

    by slder78

    He wrote Alien Ressurrection, Universal gave him money to do Serenity. Don't say that he's never been given a chance like he's some unknown talent just waiting to be discovered. We've seen what he can do and he is NOT the next Spielberg, Lucas, or Serling. He is at best a better storyteller than McG.

  • I don't count the drunk Tony and Rhodes fight because there are no stakes involved. And the Race track fight lasted less than 90 seconds. That leaves the end as the only real action scene. Iron Man 2 was made as quickly as possible since Incredible Hulk didn't make it's money back. Marvel had to pay back that Merryl Lynch angel investment of 500 million. True iron man 1 did well domestically but it's worldwide total was just over 500 mill and Incredible Hulk lost money. Before the Disney buyout Marvel had to give up like 15% of the gross receipts to paramount for distribution costs. The theatres take a slice of the gross plus add in prints and advertising costs and Marvel just wanted to get another Iron Man out as quick as possible. Had Disney not bought Marvel I don't think they would of lasted as a self financing film company passed Iron Man 3. Thor apparently cost between 150-175 million add in another 100-150 million for P&A and Thor barely turned a profit in theatres. Same with Captain America although it cost slightly less but also didn't do quite as well as Thor( Thor didn't pass 200 mill domestic). Captain America made about 350 mill worldwide while Thor did about 450 mill worldwide. In order to make profits of significant growth Marvel must of been relying on merchandising(Which is huge $$) and DVD/Blu-Ray/PayTV/First run television rights(which Paramout gets a slice of). According to box office mojo Iron Man 2 cost over 200 million! Where did that money go?? It blows my mind sometimes when I see budgets of 150 mill for Wolverine. That movies looked like cheap shit. Yet Michael Bay made Transformers 3 for 190 million(less than Transformers 2) and got every fucking dimes worth in spectacle. I'm no Michael Bay fan but how does he make a movie filled with CGi Robots for 2.5 hours for less than Iron Man ands it's 225 million budget. Anyone with any Hollywood Insight know how this happens? X-Men 3 cost 210 million!!! It's 104 minutes long. What the fuck? I know some movies that have rushed schedules pay more for VFX to be completed on time and some movies get rebates from shooting in certain countries but again Michael Bay made the first Transformers for less money than x-men 3. 60 million dollars less! I know I'm all over the map on this rant but I just watched Wolverine to see if maybe I didn't give it a fair shake and the fucking thing cost the same as a movie with CGI robots and massive explosions. Wolverine looked like an early 90s x-files episode in comparison. Anyone care to explain? Btw all my box office info comes from box office mojo and in some cases I generalized the worldwide gross and rounded up.

  • In both Iron Man 1 and 2 now we've seen where Tony flying around doing his business has often left the suit pretty nastily scratched up. And yet, seemingly each time, the next time we see him in the suit after those, it looks all nice and shiny again. So, the times in which he's in the suit and maybe takes some gunfire or explosions, etc, is Jarvis somehow able to "clean" up the whole rig, or is there an entirely new one that's created for him to use from then on (& if that's the case, does he have to build one of the miniature arc reactors for each suit, or is that pretty much unscathed, and can be transported from one old, beat up suit to the shiny new one)?

  • March 9, 2012, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Tom Welling For Superman In JLA

    by DavidBanner

    Someone else started it. I might as well name the best actor for the role.

  • March 9, 2012, 5:30 p.m. CST

    Like X2? Urgh!..Not in this lifetime..

    by steverogers5

    Whoever said they should model it after X2 ought to be shot. Yeah let's have a film where Cap is treated like Cyclops in that movie, i.e as a total nonentity, (when he's only supposed to be the fuckin leader of the team for cryin out loud!) Humiliate him by having him beaten up by the only superpowered villain they fight in the film. (We'll have some dull human soldiers and a crazy general to fill out the rest of the bad guys!) With the remainder of the movie taken up by Stark, since he's a snarky rebel and thus the fanboy's fave. And yeah make sure the whole movie revolves around why Stark has his armour, because hey it's not like they could do delve into that in a solo movie of his?..oh wait!.. And end it with the most powerful member of the team, say Thor sacrificing themselves by going outside of the quinjet to use their weather powers to save the day, because hey it's not like they couldn't already do that from inside the quinjet..(Sigh!) X2 had plot holes galore, treated many of it's leading characters like extras, and certainly wasn't cinematic or exciting the way an Avengers movie should be. So yeah, obviously it's the perfect model for this movie-In the fricken bizarro world!!

  • March 9, 2012, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Circle is orginal! Triangle resembles Superman logo

    by blueant

    Circle works for me.

  • March 9, 2012, 5:38 p.m. CST


    by UltimaRex

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HHHAAAAAA... You called Tom Welling an actor. That's just rich. I'm so glad that non-entity plank of wood will NEVER go near Superman again. He's done enough damage already.

  • March 9, 2012, 5:39 p.m. CST

    ndally, box office fies are a mystery really.

    by Mysterious_Volvo

    The reason budgets are so hard to determine is because the parties that release such figures calculate them differently, and/or fucking lie about it.

  • March 9, 2012, 5:40 p.m. CST

    *movie budgets are a mystery really.

    by Mysterious_Volvo

  • March 9, 2012, 5:46 p.m. CST


    by Dweeb Killa

    You have no idea what you are talking about. "Thor barely turned a profit in theatres" made $449,326,618 worldwide on $150 Million budget. Regardless of who eats pie, that's a serious profit. Add DVD/Blu sales, which is almost straight profit for all pie eaters involved, they bathed in dumptruck loads of cash, and Dvd/Blus are still selling. I can read box office mojo too. Doesn't mean you or I know a damn thing about how much money really gets made.

  • March 9, 2012, 5:46 p.m. CST

    Serenity cost $39 million..

    by steverogers5

    And yet Serenity looked as good as movies costing double it's budget, or more. So I wouldn't worry about getting value for money from a Whedon directed film. (Unless I suppose Jackson & Downey Jnr are on mega paydays for the film..) Oh and it was also y'know quite a good movie. (It's still at 82% on that Rotten Tomatoes site that so many folks seem to worship around here..) I bet Bay would'nt have been able to make a movie that looked as good as it did on $39 million. If that movie had had a bigger fanbase, outside of people who were sitting in on a friday night, and who were willing to take a chance, on yegods, a scifi western!..than it probably would have cleaned up. Y'know in some Fringe like alternate reality, maybe Whedon became a big success directing a Transformers movie. And you can bet in his version, the transformers would have actually looked like their small screen/comic counterparts!

  • Very Original.

  • Things i would love in Avengers 2(or the inevitable "AV2" Ugh sloganitous, Thanos or similar type threat All the team members to be new except "The Big Three" Giant man played by will Ferrel(it could work,he can be funny as well as dramatic,i just dont want 2 see Nathan fillan,it to easy a choice,sue me Black panther Grim Reaper played by lance heinkerson,he was so awesome in the show,why not. Jarvis's consciousness evolving into "the vision" The team goes to another planet/dimension, some real "Challengers Of The Unknown type stuff Thats all i got..for now. i feel like im missing a bunch

  • March 9, 2012, 6:05 p.m. CST

    Grant Morrison's

    by lead_sharp

    JLA run. Was a great example of how a team story is done. As said the individual characters are served by their own films but the team dynamic is what develops in the ensemble piece. If their is any individual character development it should come from something within the team, very basic example here (very basic but still works) Cap' teaching Tony Stark hand to hand fighting.

  • March 9, 2012, 6:07 p.m. CST

    The triangle

    by nerdator

    was one of Adi Granov's excellent design contributions when he re-vamped the armor to look more modern and "realistic" around the time of the "Extremis" storyline. To me it looks better than the old headlight-in-the-chest unibeam. Makes more sense in light of Stark's character outlook, too. He wouldn't drive an ugly car. He wouldn't bang an ugly chick. He certainly shouldn't be married to some "classic" armor design when he could wear something evocative of the sexy sleek look of a Lamborghini or a Koenigsegg.

  • March 9, 2012, 6:20 p.m. CST


    by steverogers5

    theawareness-Yeah Thanos is the perfect choice for a sequel. And as much as I love Nathan Fillian, I too would not cast him as Giant Man/Ant Man. Fillion could have made a great Cap, but that ship has sailed, and because of that I really wouldn't want him playing Hank Pym. As I don't want to watch the movie seeing someone who has the height, build, (especially in the shoulders..) and chiseled jaw of Cap getting shoved around by Evans..(who pretty much needed cgi to get that Cap build in the super soldier scenes in his flick..well that and wearing t-shirts too small for him..) Couldn't really see Ferrell in the role as he brings just too much comedy baggage with him, and I wouldn't be able to take him seriously as a result. I tell you who would be perfect though? Simon Baker from the Mentalist. The way he plays Patrick Jane in that show, i.e With an abundance of intellectual cheerful smugness, with just a little bit of the crazy underneath, would IMHO make him a perfect Pym. Jarvis? I really wish there would be a scene in either this movie or a sequel where you would find a Butler in New York that Stark based his programme on. (Maybe one who didn't want to relocate to California?) That would be a nice nod to the comics..

  • Let's say Thor cost 175 million plus another 100-150 mill in P&A . After paramount takes its slice and the theatres take theirs(no one really knows how much they take) Thor barely made a profit in theatres. If we look at domestic totals only then Marvels problems only get worse. Reason I mention domestic totals is some companies sell worldwide rights to different distribution companies to handle subtitling, dubbing etc. Which is why some DVDs/Blu-rays have region coding. Now I don't think Marvel does this but Thors domestic numbers compared to its costs aren't great. Plus not to mention the cost of actually running a studio day to day. I should of also mentioned some info I get from the good folks at deadline who are generally in the know. But your right we really don't know the truth which is why they call it "Hollywood Accounting". All I was saying is that Thor really didn't do *that* well for a movie with 3D surcharge. Warner Bros said that for Harry Potter 5 after 900$ worldwide gross they didn't turn a profit. Obviously that's bullshit but again they call it Hollywood accounting for a reason.

  • March 9, 2012, 6:59 p.m. CST


    by garagons

    Stark landing on the tower, smacking Thor around: TRIANGLE Money shot (Back-to-back Avengers), "I'm bringing the party to you": Circle. So I guess we'll get ASS for 3/4 of the film

  • March 9, 2012, 7:03 p.m. CST

    Ultron!!! which also means Ant-man!

    by garagons

    I think we will probably get Scott Pilgrim pt 2 before we get the "Ant-man" movie from the "Spaced" crew

  • March 9, 2012, 7:36 p.m. CST


    by DavidBanner

    Seriously kid? Grow up.

  • March 9, 2012, 7:50 p.m. CST

    I'm more interested in the triangle at Black Widow's crotch

    by Queefer Sutherland

    That's the only triangle I want to talk about. And smell, and touch, and taste and...

  • March 9, 2012, 7:53 p.m. CST

    davidbanner - Yes!

    by KelVarnson

    You are right. Definitely Tom Welling is the right actor to play Superman in a Justice League movie.

  • March 9, 2012, 7:56 p.m. CST

    Tom Welling?!?!

    by Queefer Sutherland

    God fucking damn, you idiots! When Tom Welling enters an empty room, it becomes even MORE empty. He has no talent for acting whatsoever. I just don't get what you fucks like about him, unless it's a fantasy of his dick up your butts. That must be it.

  • March 9, 2012, 8:20 p.m. CST

    queefer? is it?

    by KelVarnson

    yeah. okay.

  • March 9, 2012, 8:28 p.m. CST


    by The Infamous Billy The Kidd

    I agree with you about the Hulk, but my issue is more in line with these characters having to be defined by speeches and words as opposed to their actions.

  • March 9, 2012, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Aw, I liked the triangle.

    by NivekJ

    It was angular. Thought it looked cool.

  • March 9, 2012, 9:20 p.m. CST

    it figures budget/profit debating would come up....

    by darthSaul666

    I'm just throwing this out here one time. I know rapping about a flick's profit margin is kind of douchy but something occured to me..... a point oft overlooked. Anyway I recently read Ace Frehley's autobiography. When he quit KISS after recording Creatures of the Night Gene tried to persuade him to stay for the tour. Gene told him the tour would pay him $15 an Additional $20 mil or more from the overbloated KISS merchandising machine.. Yep Ace would have made more from the crap they sold at K-Mart than going on the road. You gotta wonder with some of the flicks being kranked out nowadys if the BO numbers are kind of moot if enough Wal-Mart crap with the flick attatched to it moves well. Especially with all these based of comic books, board games, etc....

  • March 9, 2012, 9:50 p.m. CST

    Bring on Hank Pym!!

    by atlatl

  • March 9, 2012, 10:06 p.m. CST

    Oh fuck no.

    by TopHat

    Give the sequel to a real director. You know, someone who can actually DIRECT not just write "witty" lines that high schoolers think are intellectual?

  • March 9, 2012, 10:41 p.m. CST

    @darthsaul666 Space Balls already answered that for ya...

    by Bedknobs and Boomsticks

  • March 9, 2012, 11:43 p.m. CST

    kelvarnson, is it?

    by Queefer Sutherland

    Only in your fantasies about him is Tom Welling a believable actor. He's a bland manboy with the presence of broccoli.

  • March 10, 2012, 12:43 a.m. CST

    okay queefer

    by KelVarnson

    The fact that you use homophobic hate speech clearly indicates your lack of intellectual capacity to discern anyone's talent level. "queefer"

  • March 10, 2012, 12:46 a.m. CST

    Can we have Ultron as the villain for the sequel,please?

    by KilliK

    And have a dark and gritty terminator-themed Avengers movie? and have Vision as the new member of the team? Ultron is one of the best Marvel villains and since we live in a modern age where technology has invaded and shaped our lives in a very big way,that makes him a perfect villain to put in a movie with contemporary messages about modern technology and how it has affected our civilization and way of life. You can have Ultron as the dark side of the technology and Vision as the bright side of it.Have Ultron taking control of every modern technological invention ,social networks,smartphones,tablets,etc and how he use it to manipulate the humans and conquer the world. Make an Avengers movie which at least has something to say,give it a bit of a scifi content,dont focus only on typical super-hero action and visual effects.

  • March 10, 2012, 12:47 a.m. CST

    Oh and somebody make a tvseries from The Boys comic series.

    by KilliK

    This material screams for a tv adaptation.

  • March 10, 2012, 12:53 a.m. CST

    okay kelvarnson

    by Queefer Sutherland

    I don't hate homosexuals at all, and I wasn't using hate speech at all. I sincerely think that the only way somebody could like Tom Welling is if they are sexually attracted to him. That attractions generally blinds the person to the truth. Yes, I put forth those thoughts crudely, but to label it "homophobic hate speech" is to simply dismiss something YOU don't want to talk about. "kelvarnson."

  • March 10, 2012, 12:56 a.m. CST

    Imagine a scene where the Avengers try to stop Ultron

    by KilliK

    but he takes control of the IM armor while Tony is in it,and he uses to attack the innocent people who are nearby watching the fight between the team and Ultron. Tony,trapped inside the armor,he watches helpless while his repulsors rip apart a dozen of innocent by-standers.The Avengers leave Ultron alone,thus giving him the chance to escape, in order to try to stop Tony before he kills more innocent people. Finally Vision uses his phase ability to short-circuit and disable the IM armor.But it is too late,this awful event damages the public image of the Avenegers team,a furious US president is about to order Fury to disband the team and Tony,after his shocking experience, falls into heavy depression and becomes an alcoholic.War Machine is asked to replace him in the team. I know this will never happen in a disney/marvel movie but i can hope,cant i?

  • March 10, 2012, 1:01 a.m. CST

    No queefer - you did use hate speech -

    by KelVarnson

    and it's pathetic.

  • March 10, 2012, 1:06 a.m. CST

    kelvarnson, you wouldn't know hate speech if it flew up your butt

    by Queefer Sutherland

    What's pathetic is how overly-sensitive you are being because I don't like Tom Welling. Hate is in the heart, and there is none in mine for gays, only idiots who think Tim Welling would make a good Superman.

  • March 10, 2012, 1:12 a.m. CST


    by oisin5199

    Dude, did you read your own article? Whedon said "I go to these movies for those moments when the heroes define themselves, either through action or deliciously overwritten speeches." Notice the 'or'? Your comment about the solo movies just seems to come out of left field. Every superhero film, even the group movies, needs to stand alone even if it builds on what came before. So you have to have character moments that define the heroes in that film to remind the audience who they are and why we root for them. And the notion that character moments and action are mutually exclusive is a fairly ignorant one in the first place. A good storyteller can tell the story and sell the character in both. The best superhero comics do that, and the best superhero films do that. And as has been pointed out, Hulk catching Iron Man is indeed one of those action/character moments.

  • March 10, 2012, 1:15 a.m. CST

    for the sequel

    by oisin5199

    you gotta go the Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne route, but I don't think the Avengers audience is necessarily ready for the darker parts of that relationship (as in I don't think a 'hero' can come back from domestic violence in a mainstream superhero film). If they go the cybernetic route with Pym, they could also bring in the Vision. Ultron vs. the Vision. Can you imagine?

  • March 10, 2012, 1:16 a.m. CST

    The triangular shape was originally on the Silver Centurion

    by Bedknobs and Boomsticks

    version as conceived by Bob Layton. Over the years they went back to circular and then back to triangular, but the triangle became more diamond-shaped, which looked too much like Superman. I agree that the circular uni-beam was more iconic for Iron Man. Anyhow, eventually in the books he gets the shrapnel out of his chest, so that it wouldn't matter if the movie verse switched back. I assume they changed it to triangular in the movie to allude to the occasional switches to triangular in the books (and to sell variant action figures). Also, they hinted in the movie that the element Stark created was synthetic Vibranium, so a "V" shape would be appropriate.

  • March 10, 2012, 1:20 a.m. CST

    I see killik beat me to it with the Vision

    by oisin5199

    so will we ever see Scarlet Witch then? I could imagine a cool version that's necessarily divorced from the Magneto roots and free of the ridiculous costume (as hot as that would look). Or even better, since they seem to be going the galactic route, with talk of the Guardians of the Galaxy, introduce a kick-ass version of Carol Danvers and the Ms. Marvel character, free of the whole Rogue thing. Bring on the Kree! For Carol Danvers, I suggest Yvonne Strahovski from Chuck.

  • March 10, 2012, 1:21 a.m. CST

    queefer - let's quote you

    by KelVarnson

    queefer sutherland said "God fucking damn, you idiots! When Tom Welling enters an empty room, it becomes even MORE empty. He has no talent for acting whatsoever. I just don't get what you fucks like about him, unless it's a fantasy of his dick up your butts. That must be it." That is homophobic hate speech. I hope you're not homophobic. I hope you truly don't have hate for people who've done nothing to you. But that statement is a perfect example of hate. I'm not overly sensitive, which is why I tried to dismiss your statement as something a teenage juvenile would say who hasn't reached adulthood yet. When you say the line "When Tom Welling enters an empty room, it becomes even MORE empty." is funny. But the garbage you surround it with is something that an angry hateful person would say. And the reason I addressed you as "queefer" is because using that as a name just reinforces the ignorant juvenile and hateful manner in which you deliver your opinions. Opinions such as "dick up your butts."

  • March 10, 2012, 1:25 a.m. CST

    I guess Strahovski is a popular choice

    by oisin5199 she would look great in the costume. plus we know she has awesome on-camera fighting skills. Give that woman superpowers, stat.

  • March 10, 2012, 1:27 a.m. CST

    @bedknobs I always wanted the Flame Thrower!

    by darthSaul666

    That would be fun on the occasion Friday night!

  • March 10, 2012, 1:34 a.m. CST

    actually, those "Avengers Assemble" short films are pretty funny

    by oisin5199

  • March 10, 2012, 1:51 a.m. CST

    some of them, anyway

    by oisin5199

  • March 10, 2012, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Quote me all you want

    by Queefer Sutherland

    I don't deny it's hate speech, it's just not meant to belittle gays, it's meant to belittle Tom Welling fans because I really really dislike him. I'm not pretending or even claiming to be mature here. I agree with early every criticism of me you've used, except for the part where I'm homophobic and hating on gays. I simply am not. None of this negates the fact that Tom Welling would make a terrible, horrible, awful, no-good, very bad Superman. You keep trying to turn this into some weird "Queefer hates gays" argument. Oh, and the use of the name "Queefer" is meant to make fun of Keifer Sutherland, in case you couldn't figure that out. Nothing else behind it. I simply hate Keifer. Almost as much as Tom Welling. You have quite the ability to read things into words that aren't there. Trust me, though, you're no genius. And that's not be being cruel and immature. It's me being mature and perceptive. But I'm not so stupid as to waste any more of my time debating an overly-sensitive and easily-insulted idiot. Go look to be offended by somebody else. I'm heading to another forum to offend elsewhere. Someplace where people can take it, and give it back in return. You big pussy. OMG! Wait! That was really hateful, and, um, let's see... give me a moment... THAT'S IT! It was really misogynistic! Yeah, that's what it is! I'm such a misogynist! I hate women as well as gays! I hate straight people, too, by the way. And those bugs that look like sticks - I REALLY hate them!

  • March 10, 2012, 2:07 a.m. CST

    Ulton! Thanos! Hell Yeah!

    by darthSaul666

    Reminds me of a comic book I own that will probably never be a movie..... X-Men vs Teen Titans! Darkseid & Dark Phonex join forces! That is the shit!!!

  • March 10, 2012, 2:11 a.m. CST

    what no love for The Lost Boys?

    by darthSaul666

    Kind of pre-figured the whole Twilight tend. Didn't it!

  • Yeah I can't hate on Keifer.... Did the angsty teenage Vampire way better!

  • March 10, 2012, 2:19 a.m. CST

    I prefer the triangle myself

    by Crooooooow

    But I grew up in the 80's when he had the triangle in comics and his suit was red and silver.

  • March 10, 2012, 2:34 a.m. CST

    I'm kind of indifferent to the triangle or circle

    by darthSaul666

    But when the IM movie was anounced I got a copy of the only IM iss with Iron Monger....IM # 200... I'm not a big colletor of IM so I welcome any feedback! But God Damn did that iss have an awesome ending!

  • March 10, 2012, 4:34 a.m. CST


    by red_eddie

    fuck this i need to see a well dne Deathlock movie

  • March 10, 2012, 5:06 a.m. CST

    Joss "made for TV" Whedon

    by Volllllume3

    Lol, what a passing nickname.

  • March 10, 2012, 6:08 a.m. CST


    by KilliK

  • March 10, 2012, 6:44 a.m. CST

    The only sequel I want Joss Whedon talking about....

    by Refuge5

    Is that Serenity sequel he's never going to make.... Yep still living the dream....

  • March 10, 2012, 6:54 a.m. CST

    triangle served a purpose in iron man 2

    by Obscura

    but to be honest, i dont really care. the circle is more pleasing, but i never found the triangle suit offensive. I love that Joss knowns what matters in these movies. I honestly cant see him messing this up

  • March 10, 2012, 7:26 a.m. CST


    by Hipshot

    I like your lay-out of the Avengers dynamics, with Iron Man and Thor's egos, and Hulk's volatility balanced by Captain America's clarity of purpose and quiet heroism. Expanding that, then, Black Widow and Hawkeye exist to interface the team with Nick Fury, who controls S.H.I.E.L.D., which represents traditional technological and military human powers. While Widow and Hawk certainly aren't as "powerful" as Thor or Hulk, S.H.I.E.L.D is, and they act as a binding agent, as well as performing low-key sneak-and-peek functions. Very nice distribution of extreme power and human ingenuity. Likely to be quite a crowd pleasing flick!

  • March 10, 2012, 7:34 a.m. CST


    by DavidBanner

    Thanks. And your S.H.I.E.L.D. analysis makes a lot of sense. I hadn't really looked at it like that. Cool!

  • March 10, 2012, 7:36 a.m. CST

    And "Serenity" bombed...

    by Hipshot

    Because it had the worst fucking title in the history of action films. Only the (failed) television show's fans had the slightest idea what that title meant. I mean, if you heard there was a kick-ass SF action movie coming out, looked in the movie listings and saw the name "Serenity" at your local theater, would you have the slightest sense that that was it? "Star Wars" is a dynamite title. Any idiot would know what it was, even if he'd never heard of it. "Serenity" is self-sabotage of the highest order.

  • March 10, 2012, 8:58 a.m. CST

    Star of David...

    by beelkay

    Is actually two triangles. ;0) I actually prefer the triangle in some's sharper, edgier, whatever. It seems more appropriate to the times and Iron Man's character (at least in the comic books).

  • This film is as close to a SURE THING as exists in Hollywood. Star Studded, with several successive lead in films fueling I've said before; to sell Avengers after IM1-2, Thor and Capt.Am is like selling Coke-Cola...just offer it and the public will lap it up. No 100M marketing campaign needed. Possibly one of the most bold, well planned, synergistic, cross product, multi-year business plans I've ever seen....tying various near billion dollar films into one grand offering every few years. With at least onem ore Iron man, and 2 more Thor and Capt. Am at least one more Avengers film...Disney/Marvel will make money off these films for decades. Makes me proud to own Disney stock despite the clueless Rich Ross...who I'm sure had nothing to do with this plan. A presold film...the dream of EVERY Hollywood exec and points taker.

  • March 10, 2012, 9:15 a.m. CST

    In The Avengers 2, Black Widow gets pregnant...

    by I Hope You Die

    ...after a night of drunken debauchery. Is the father Tony Stark or Thor? Will she tell them? Will she get an abortion? Can Stark and Thor overcome their rivalry and help Black Widow make the right decision? Will Hulk smash the unborn child from Black Widow's womb or will the pro-life Captain America intervene? Why is Hawkeye even in the movie? All this and not much more on the next instalment of... The Avengers!

  • March 10, 2012, 9:37 a.m. CST

    Circle all the way

    by MrEkoLetMeLive

    But will the Black Widow have a Russian accent?

  • March 10, 2012, 10:12 a.m. CST

    Black Widow's triangle needs to be on display

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

  • March 10, 2012, 10:33 a.m. CST

    How about that black stealth armor from Armor Wars?

    by KilliK

    loved that one.although it was pretty weak as armor.

  • March 10, 2012, 10:40 a.m. CST

    Don't like the triangle either. The circle's more elegant.

    by Mr Nicholas

  • March 10, 2012, 10:52 a.m. CST

    They want the suit to evolve...

    by Gene Ess he change it back to what it was before. Someone failed biology.

  • March 10, 2012, 11:22 a.m. CST


    by Iahael

    After reading Nordling's review of The Cabin in the Woods, I think I now know where my differences with Buffy, Angel, and why I'm looking forward to Avengers; I don't really get his takes on horror. (Buffy was scary?) But I think he seems to understand superheroes, and sci-fi (Firefly). T.'.

  • March 10, 2012, 11:36 a.m. CST

    Are people really bitching about the triangle?

    by Bass Ackwards

    I've seen lots of, deserved, bitching about Caps outfit. Odd how that was apparently ignored to come out on the non-issue of triangle vs circle. I like the circle better too, but it's still the same suit so i don't really give a fuck or even notice that much honestly, I spent more time being distracted by how awful Iron Man 2 was then by what shape his chest lights up as.

  • March 10, 2012, 11:45 a.m. CST

    I'm just hoping for a good story and that the

    by KelVarnson

    hulk works out, so that maybe we get a new spinoff movie!

  • March 10, 2012, 11:49 a.m. CST


    by KelVarnson

    I'll have to read Nordling's review, but I never thought Buffy was supposed to be scary either. I always thought of that show as more of superhero kind of show. For me personally, it was more of a "guilty pleasure" than something I really watched for the dramatic aspects. A friend of mine hated all the "hip" "pop culture" references where as his girlfriend was a huge fan of the show because of the writing. I could see both points of view.

  • March 10, 2012, 1:01 p.m. CST

    CA WWII Helmet > IM Circle Suit > IM Triangle Suit >CA Avengers Helmet

    by tomandshell

  • March 10, 2012, 7:48 p.m. CST

    The triangle was kinda the point of the second movie.

    by Yelsaeb

    You know, him getting help from his dad and making the new element and all. Switching back to the circle sort of takes a step back.

  • either through action or deliciously overwritten speeches

  • March 11, 2012, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Kidd, Us Geeks SHOULDN'T See Anything Besides Trailers

    by Buzz Maverik

    Older geeks help out. Remember what it was like walking into Donner's SUPERMAN or RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK knowing almost nothing?

  • March 11, 2012, 1:28 p.m. CST

    buzz: Hell, Donner's movie was all I knew about Superman...

    by Royston Lodge

    ...for a very long time.

  • March 11, 2012, 1:30 p.m. CST

    ckone: That just proves it should be a trapezoid for this movie!

    by Royston Lodge

    ...and a rhombus for the next one. Chest-based nuclear power technology is clearly dependant on simple geometric shapes.

  • I think Billy and a lot of other people are slightly misinterpreting what he's saying, or misjudging how what Joss is saying will come off on screen. What made "Buffy" a great show was the group dynamic, and each character always seemed to get thier moment. Some action that showed you exactly what that character was about in relation to what was going on within the group and the larger picture. Sometimes its a character doing something unexpected in the heat of batttle, sometimes its the character you thought was just content to sit and follow standing up and delivering a 'this is bullshit!' speech. these are small squences in relation to the entire film... he';s talking about little moments that show you what the character is made of, not spending 10 minutes fleshing out each character with long winded speeches. Saving Private Ryan is full of examples of what he's talking about. Jeremy Davies' character not being able to do anything while the German guy that he saved earlier kills his friend in the next room... The sniper guy's speech about how he should be assigned to shoot Hitler and he could end the war... Givoni Ribisi's character stepping up and saying "I will, I'll go Left"... These are moments that define these character, tell you exactly what makes them tick and what kind of person they are. This is what he's talking about...and it worked flawlessly in that movie. Imagine if he can pull that off with the frickin' Avengers?