Cool News
SPIKE LEE speaks to film students
Father Geek here, Harry's been in the tub an hour washing off Las Vegas, he arrived in Austin about 10:30 last night, his plane was suppose to arrive at 7:06. Well, here's a report on Spike Lee and the Talk he gave last night over at the UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS. It contains stuff Lee fans already know, plus some new stories, but to those of you not familar with the man's story this is a really good introduction to him... Gotta drag Harry outta bathtub... must get to SXSW Film and Music Festival...
Father Geek,
I didn't see Harry at the LBJ Auditorium tonight, so I assume he's still in Vegas. Although I'd rather be at Showest, being in Austin tonight to hear Spike Lee speak was cool as well. Anyway, hope you can use the info.
Spike started the evening with his success story, so to speak, or how he came to be a filmmaker. Most of it is common knowledge to movie fanatics, but I'll go through it anyway. Spike's story is slightly different from most of the other "independent" filmmakers. Instead of the idea of one being destined to be a director since birth, as most neophyte filmmakers feel they are, Spike didn't think about going into film until his sophomore year in college. In fact, when he attended movies as a child and young adult, he just viewed them as merely entertainment. He never looked up to any film or filmmaker during that time in his life, as many young filmmakers look to sex, lies and videotape/Soderbergh, Pulp Fiction/Tarantino, Jaws/Spielberg etc... today. In the summer of 1977 Spike returned home from Morehouse College and entertained himself with his Super 8 and whatever he found to shoot(Last Hustle in Brooklyn). When he went back to school, he decided he wanted to make films. However, Morehouse didn't have his desired major, so he took some mass communication classes at Clark College. But even at Clark, he couldn't concentrate solely on film. Therefore, he applied to USC, UCLA, and NYU film schools. He ended up choosing NYU mainly due to housing and transportation problems. However, at the same time his scores on the GRE were below USC and UCLA requirements. He is today still opposed to standardized testing, as most of us are who have taken them time and again for one reason or the other, regardless of scoring high or low.
He then bashed film schools that choose what gets produced, and praised film schools that let it's students choose. He believes the only way to learn how to be a filmmaker is to make films, and USC and UCLA restrict that process. At NYU one gets a little more freedom, which results in a better school for independent filmmakers. Although, even at NYU, he encountered negative feedback due to the content and messages of his films. On this he said, "it might be blasphemous to say this but, I didn't expect the teachers to teach me, all I wanted was access to the equipment." He feels that film schools' degrees are useless unless one has a film to accompany it.
He filmed three films his first year. The third, called The Answer, was about a young African American Screenwriter hired to write and direct a remake of D.W. Griffith's Birth of a Nation. Needless to say, this didn't go over well with NYU faculty who were appalled that a student would attack the "father of cinema." They wanted him expelled, but he had TA status which kept him there until graduation. He also mentioned the hush, hush fact that Birth of a Nation was used to recruit KKK members, and that black males got lynched or castrated due to the film.
His thesis film, Joe's Bed-Stuy Barbershop: We Cut Heads, won the Student Academy Award. Afterwards, he felt Hollywood would start knocking down his door, while his agent was also advocating that falsehood by telling him to sit tight and wait for it to happen. After a financial low point, he finally got motivated to do something himself. He didn't feel he would be accepted in Hollywood in the early eighties as a black filmmaker with the kind of films he had in mind. So, he decided to try to make a movie independently. After fully assembling a cast and crew, the money never came through, and finally embarrassingly abandoned the project.
At this point in his career, he could've easily given up. But he reviewed his mistakes on the first film, which was mainly a slightly complicated and expensive attempt for a first feature film, and tried again with a smaller idea, She's Gotta Have It. It was shot in 12 days, and written based on an extremely low budget($10,000 in the beginning). He mentioned the critics idea that, "it was genius having people talking to the camera," when actually it was done that way to save money. They saved cans and bottles to gain extra funds during the shoot and ended up scraping up enough money to buy three extra rolls of film. Then to add to the budget, they let anybody who contributed money to the film receive a credit. At the end of production the film cost $175,000 hard earned dollars and turned 8.5 million. Along with Robert Townsend's Hollywood Shuffle, She's Gotta Have It opened up new doors for African Americans in film. However, Spike doesn't feel allot of the films being made today with African American content are progressive.
One of Spike Lee's goals from the beginning was to "Put the richness of the African American culture on screen." At the same time, he doesn't want to compartmentalize it, but show how the African American culture is a large part of America, and not so much of a "minority" as it seems. Another one of his goal's was to develop a body of work, and not become one of those directors that takes years to put out a follow up film. In other words, he didn't want to become lazy.
He addressed the statements that were made after She's Gotta Have It that proclaimed, "he's a black Woody Allen", by saying "the only thing we have in common, is being from Brooklyn, I'm taller than him a little bit, and we're both season ticket holders for the New York Knicks, but stops right around there."
He addressed the influential power of media by using Bruce Lee films as an example. Since kids come out of Bruce Lee or other martial arts films kicking and throwing punches etc, then they must be influenced by other violent acts on screen as well. He also feels the reason America is the most dominant country in the world is because of American movies, TV, and radio. And now, due to this influence, some media is being attacked for it's messages, Natural Born Killers, Taxi Driver, and Basketball Diaries to name a few. This has caused studios to be reluctant to take on projects that cause controversy. In his new film, Bambooloo(a satire about television shot on video with Damon Wayans among others), there is a kidnapping which involves the internet. New Line's lawyers don't want Spike to use the word "internet" due to possible law suits that might emerge similar to the Basketball Diaries/Columbine situation. Spike feels that filmmakers should stay away from gratuitous violence but, it ultimately is not the responsibility of the filmmakers to hide the truth by censoring their own work. Spike would like to see other things be addressed, like the NRA, before attacking artists.
He then took questions, which I felt most of them should have never been asked. A large percentage of people just wanted to get up and plug themselves, "Spike, I have a screenplay," "Spike, I'm an actress." Blah, blah, blah. While others were things such as, "Spike, what do I do after I graduate from film school," "Spike, how can I break into Hollywood." But a few were okay. The comments he made on questions that stuck out to me are summarized in the following:
He feels affirmative action is still a much needed thing, and will continue to be needed until the playing field is level. Some of the filmmakers that influenced him are Billy Wilder, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola, Akira Kurasowa, Terrence Malick among others. He feels anything with Master P in it is Blaxploitation. The only one of his films that his five year old daughter has seen all the way through is Crooklyn, the others will wait for an older age. BET is a crime against television, and it needs a good competitor before it will produce worth while programing. Jackie Robinson continues to lack the funding necessary for production. And last but not least, Austin is the coolest place to make a film. Okay, he didn't word it exactly like that, but he did give Austin credit for becoming a third production town, aside from NY and LA.
I must say, I was disappointed in the kinds of questions that were asked. I'm actually kind of disappointed in my school(UT). I mean, you get a shot to ask Spike Lee almost anything, and people chose to bullshit instead. His speech was not exactly amazing, but it was still cool as shit for him to come and give us a get a chance to hear him speak in person and get to ask questions. So, can't we at least get our money's worth(tickets ranged from $30-$75) by asking good questions.
Well, that about wraps it up. Hope you can use the info. Oh yeah, I guess you can call me the Lazy Eyed Psycho. So until next time, it's frickin freezing in here Mr. Bigglesworth.
-Lazy Eyed Psycho
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Except for X and She's gotta have it, he hasn't made a film that really jolted me. I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but "School Daze" was silly and "Summer of Sam" was just a mess. I haven't seen all his films though, so maybe I'm missing something.
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Even if you are not impressed with what (small) portion of Lee films you have seen, you can't deny that Lee's startling color schemes and story lines signify a authentic and original American film maker.
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I think Spike should tackle the long discussed adaptation of Marvel's Black Panther. Can't you just see it? : T'Challa stands and ponders the whereabouts of the other Defenders as the scenery around him rolls past. Meanwhile, a lazy, summery Branford Marsalis sax motif plays...
Oh, and maybe have Eddie Murphy play T'Challa/Black Panther, and Turturro as Submariner. Crikey! -
Uhm....dragging Harry out of the tub, I can't think of anything more horrifying.
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I have no doubt that Spike Lee is a filmmaker with an original vision. As of yet, it's just not a vision that's grabbed me. Many of the films I've seen feel a bit cliched or overdone (i.e. "Summer of Sam"). Who knows? Maybe I haven't seen the right films. Any reccomendations?
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He succcessfully plunged himself into directing MALCOLM X, which is a good film by the way, by claiming that only a black filmmaker could do justice to the story. I think it was Norman Jewison who stepped aside even though he went on to direct THE HURRICANE very compitently anyway. Now Spike is saying the same thing about Michael Mann direcing ALI. Although I like a lot of Spike's films, even though the endings of his films are some of the worst, this feels like a desperation tactic because his career is in the dumps.
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Clockers is by FAR the best film Lee has done in terms of pure emotion and public good. Crooklyn is a quiet, emotional family structure that fits in well with modern day "Safe" entertainment. Get On The Bus should be required viewing for any student of African American activism.
On the subject of Summer of Sam, its main point of violence in relationships (rather real or the insane hallucinations of SOS) is just as cliched an idea as machismo and capitalism. Violence begets Violence and whatnot ergo...long live W.S. Burroughs! -
"New Line's lawyers don't want Spike to use the word 'internet' due to possible law suits that might emerge similar to the Basketball Diaries/Columbine situation."
What the hell does this sentence mean? What possible lawsuits, and by who?
"Another one of his goal's was to develop a body of work, and not become one of those directors that takes years to put out a follow up film. In other words, he didn't want to become lazy."
I guess now we know why Spike Lee's movies are frustratingly uneven. I hope he realizes soon that taking years to put out a follow-up film isn't necessarilly a bad thing. Choosing between that and releasing two mediocre films before another excellent one should be an easy choice.
btw, Clockers is an excellent film. Everybody should check that out. -
God what a shitfest.
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Funny how Spike puts down the "White Man", yet that's where he gets most of his money to make his films(Except "Get On the Bus") Deep down inside, he really hates White people and shows them in a bad light. Check out his films and you'll see. Gee, that's funny Spike, since your father is married to a WHITE WOMAN! That makes her your STEP MOTHER! I won't see any of his movies. Robert Townsend and John Singleton are better filmakers.
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Oh come ON man, what film book and/or review of Spike Lee's movies are your blatantly ripping off? I have little doubts as to whether you've ACTUALLY seen any of the movies you mention and there is no doubt in my mind that you inane, cliche statements about each film was NOT thought up by yourself. When you actually have an opinion on something THEN you should open your mouth and start talking, otherwise, shut the hell up and stop jabbering stuff you can find in ANY professional review or film book.
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I agreed with Spike when he lobbied to wrest the directorial chores for MALCOLM X away from Norman Jewison, if only because Spike was, at the time, a much more exciting filmmaker, while Jewison was coming off the not-terribly-impressive duo of THE JANUARY MAN and IN COUNTRY. This time around, however, I think Mann is probably the more polished director. He's certainly much better with actors, which is going to be crucial, since Will Smith has never been tested like this before. Mann is perfect for ALI.
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...after Crooklyn. What a mess that one was. It took 45 minutes to finally determine who the protagonist was, then meandered off again toward the end. He also shot an entire ten minute sequence of the film with a fish eye lens, I guess trying to make a point, but it was irritating and out of place. Something a film student might do, not a professional filmmaker. He ruined Clockers, a terrific book by Richard Price, by expanding and focusing solely on the story of the young drug dealer, and not giving equal time to the cop story, whose counterpoint to the dealer story makes the book so interesting. Spike is more concerned with self promotion than making good films. Witness his behavior on the sidelines at the Knicks games and the way he inserts himself unneccesarily into each of his movies. In this respect, he has been very successful. His films, however, are cold and amateurish and more often than not fail to reach a mass audience. He did show promise at one time. She's Gotta Have It and Do The Right Thing were good early efforts, and his mid-80s Nike commercials were genre defining (but once again, self promotional). Recent efforts, however, have fallen flat. Unfortunately, Spike is playing the race card once again in his bid to get a gig, just as he did with Malcolm X. Michael Mann will do a fine job with the Ali biopic. Spike still needs to prove himself worthy of a huge studio budget.
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Personally, I felt MALCOLM X was close to a masterpiece, but that goddamn, tacked-on ending with Nelson Mandela is as awful as anything I've ever seen, including Roger Corman's unreleased FANTASTIC FOUR movie. As for CLOCKERS..... yeah, Spike did gut Price's novel, but he found a sturdy core with Mekhi Pfeiffer's character, and was lucky enough to have Delroy Lindo, who can elevate *any* project just by showing up. IMO, it's as poignant a film as Spike has ever done, and, even better, his cameo is so brief, it barely registers. I thought CLOCKERS marked Spike's ultimate maturity as a filmmaker, but, with the exception of GET ON THE BUS, he's done nothing but prove me wrong since. GIRL 6, despite having an all-Prince soundtrack, was just dreadful, while HE GOT GAME was unfocused. As for SUMMER OF SAM, there were a few good performances (Adrian Brody, in particular,) and the soundtrack was terrific, but, man, what a mess! At this point in his career, there's no excuse for that kind of undisciplined filmmaking.
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...how could he be sued by mentioning it? Sued by whom? Either he's full of it, or he didn't understand what New Line was advising. I do agree a filmmaker should not censor his own work, in fact, no one should censor it.
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We ought to be told.
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Spike is at his element when he sticks to what he said his goal is...the richness of African-American life. come on, now, most of yall never even knew that there were Black colleges until you saw School Daze (which is a brilliant fucking movie...i lived that movie for real at Grambling State University from 91-95...) Do The Right Thing is a classic and Mo Better Blues is the closest thing to Soul on film i've even seen. But screwing around with WB during Malcolm X burnt him out...and he hasn't been up to form since (who gives a fuck about a damn phone sex operator anyway???!!!) hopefully, with Bamboozled, he'll be back on point. i have hope. and whoever made that point about low box-office numbers needs to bring their ass to Magic Johnson Theatres any given Friday when a Spike Lee film opens and see the lines all around the muthafuckin block...or are you afraid getting shot by a gangbanger or something??? let's keep it real now...do most of you vanilla colored folk really give a shit about African-Americans are represented on screen...you people fucking laughed at the Love and Basketball trailer for goodness sake! i know the answer: NO. you think he and all our filmmakers are a joke. but that's okay...12 years and 13 films later, my man Spike is still here! keep on fighting, Spike! we got ya back!
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not like yall give a damn, but there is a African-American film website: www.3blackchicks.com
it's pretty good...i wonder if any of yall will stop by??? -
Thanks for the info - just went over and cruised the site for a while; some damned good reviews over there, people.
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What the hell does the NRA have to do with violence? NRA members are 99% law abiding-gun-toting-god-fearing Americans.
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If you don't count domestic violence; a statistic where they're criminal all-stars.
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Sure, Spike uses some tricks that disrupt the flow of his movies, but so did a bunch of Italian fellas in the early 70's. In my opinion, Spike is the only semi-mainstream director that is approaching the level of personal films like Scorsese's Mean Streets.
Using Crooklyn as an example. There are two moments in that film that broke down the fourth wall, that made me feel like I was in that Brownstone in Brookyln.
When Troy was examining herself in the mirror, beginning to see the world in a sexualized way, she wasn't able to understand why her body wasn't developed yet. Her confusion was palpable. Some people say Spike can't write for women. He captured it beautifully there.
Then when the oldest son skipped his father's concert to watch the Knicks win the NBA title. He came home and walked silently up the stairs. Come on, you could see his disappointment in betraying his father struggling with his determination to become a man.
Man, that movie was real life. Black or white, that is how people grow up. I think that film was one of the best of the 90's. -
Mar 10, 2000 4:07:14 PM CST
Wasn't Kraven a character from the Spiderman comics that wore th
by uncapie
Maybe he raped them too while he was at it.
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shit. Some of the posters above saying things like "fuck Spike Lee, he's a racist, his films are bad,blah, blah, motherfucking blah". I think Spike Lee is the most prolific film makers of our generation, and that Summer of Sam was an incredible fucking movie. Ya'll probably thought the Matrix was the sceond coming. Fuck that piec of shit. the only cool things in that movie were L. Fishburne and the choreography. Mo betta blues is one of my favorite movies, Malcom X was a masterpiece, I agree with the poster, Get on the Bus was a must see. You don't like Spike Lee movies, you're entitled to your opinion. If you just came to troll and bitch and moan, fuck you. If you shit in my yard, you better expect me to throw a few rocks.
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Nope, ol' Kraven never killed any animal skins, jes' animals.
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Besides the semi-humorous "She's Gotta Have It" and the sort of interesting "Do The Right Thing", his movies are crap. Any film student at NYU can make better films than this hack!
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Based on what? BOYZ 'N THE HOOD, a movie that looks worse with each passing year? And what of his subsequent work? POETIC JUSTICE had a great opening, and then fell apart. HIGHER LEARNING remains one of the funniest films ever made, offering up stereotypes masquerading as characters, while appearing to be the work of a man who never set foot on a college campus. ROSEWOOD, which deserved to be something special, was a botch job of epic proportions, with dialogue so inept, your ears bled. And, finally, SHAFT. I have a number of friends who worked on that interminable shoot, and not a one of them had anything good to say about Singleton. In fact, Singleton got his ass chewed out a number of times by both Samuel L. Jackson *and* Scott Rudin in full view of the cast and crew. You may not like Spike Lee, but at least he'll still be making movies in five years. Trust me, after SHAFT, Singleton will be lucky to helm the occasional JAG episode.
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I can't believe what I'm reading from you oversensitive assholes! Oh, Spike Lee hates white people, he's a racist, he stereotypes, whaaa whaa whaa. Stop crying you fucking babies. The (supposed) stereotypes in Lee's films aren't anything differen't than what you see in ANY Hollywood film. Are the Italians in Do the Right Thing any different from the ones in, let's say...Analyze This? Not really. Do you actually think intelligent actors like John Turturro (veteran of several Spike Lee films), Danny Aiello, Harvey Keitel, Adrien Brody, etc. would appear in his films if they thought the material or characters were insulting to the white (or Italian) community? Get a grip. It's really a shame that this outdated reactionary view is prevalent on a website of people who are supposedly educated about film. I guess there's just a large portion of white american who still feels that black people should just keep their mouths shut and stop complaining. "My parents didn't own any slaves!" So what? Spike Lee, much more then Fucking F GARY GRAY! or John Singleton, has attempted to voice the frustration, rage, confusion, art, love, philosophy, history, and celebration of his culture in one of the most diverse filmographies of anyone in the last 25 years! I don't see anyone criticizing Woody Allen (whom I adore) for having mostly all-white casts, and just as many cultural and racial caricatures that could be miscontrued (by idiots) as racism or sterotyping. Spike Lee has so many moments of pure movie magic and delight that to say you refuse to view his films because of what you -assume- his personality to be is pathetic. The last shot of He Got Game (a messy but brilliant work of art) where Denzel passes the basketball over the walls of the jail and into the gymnasium where Ray Allen is happens to be one of the most beautiful images of hope and love I've ever seen in a film, a departure from reality to highlight theme that Steven Spielberg only thinks he's capable of.
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This guy is a joke. The extent of his films is praising black people and bashing the crap out of white people. And the bleeding heart white media can't help but praise someone who would bash their own "despicable" race.
Watch "Do the Right Thing". There's no dimension at all in that movie. The white people consist of racist italian pizza makers and racist rogue cops. -
Mar 10, 2000 5:50:41 PM CST
Kraven: thanks for answering my question. Lazarus: I disagree.
by uncapie
Spike Lee causes more harm than good. You're saying his films are better than John Singleton's? What about "Devil In A Blue Dress?" At least you were interested in the characters and the story. Spike Lee's "Git Whitey!" bullshit went out in the seventies. I agree with you about Speilberg and Allen though. I'm really tired of their predictable characters. Look at John Ford's films andcheck out the characterization there or any Prston Sturges film. Spike Lee couldn't hold a candle to those men!
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Do The Right Thing is one of my favorite movies of all time. All you hacks that say he's still just a film student couldn't even touch him with a ten-foot pole on that one. OK, so the guy is very vocal about what he believes in. Big deal! His position on issues may be controversial, but I do believe that his intentions are good. I'd rather have a director like Spike Lee making films for us to see than say, the director of Lost In Space. Or Meet Joe Black. Keep up the good work, Spike! And great report on his Austin appearance.
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Spike Lee is so overrated. Do the right thing was pretty good, but thats pretty much it.
Spike Lee: You have to be black to fully understand Malcolm X.
Fuck that shit! I don't have to be a shark to understand Jaws. John Singleton kicks this fuckers ass. -
Wow, utz_world. Thanks for that "enlightening" commentary on the social state of cinema-going. Your generalization of whites is quite disturbing and typical of racial paranoia. As far as Lee's claim that films with blacks can only be created by blacks is the most close-minded and infuriating concept ever shat out. It doesn't take creed or sex or race or anything to drive a story or idea. It takes PASSION. If what is portrayed in a large percentage of "black-oriented" films was inversed, the NAACP would be all over those responsible. I despise seeing a film where I feel the finger of white guilt pointed at me. I have alot of respect for someone who has struggled so passionately with what they want, as in the way Lee became what he is today. It's a shining example for a yearning filmmaker such as myself. But his politics need major work. And so does yours...
And my skin is no where near vanilla-colored... And if I hear "it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand" ONE more time, I will self destruct... -
Jeezus, man! I have never seen someone draw so many wrong conclusions and shout out so many unjustified accusations in my life, even on this board! Your view is so stereotypical. Maybe people who don't care for Lee are NOT racist and just don't care for HIM, not his RACE. Have you considered that? And I don't care for Woody Allen because I don't care for his films. Am I biased because of his background? NO! Get a grip on open-mindedness and drop that nasty generalization habit of yours. And as far as comparing Lee to Spielberg, I wish I had all the time in the world that I need to explain how wrong I think you are, even though you aren't wrong because that is your opinion. I just disagree...
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Jesus! I can't believe all you people are so down on Spike! Yeah, he's a loudmouth, maybe obnoxious, but what a great filmmaker! Do The Right Thing--maybe the best American movie of the past twenty years. I'm not too crazy about Girl 6 or School Daze, and Crooklyn is a mess but I still love it, and Clockers--well, I'll get back to that, but every other film he's done I LOVE! Are they "messy"? Sure. Is the dialogue unrealistic (overly stylized)? Yeah. But that's just part of his style. Tim Burton has his own weird little style, and that's why people love him. Now if you don't like his style, that's cool, but I really think you're missing out. OK, about clockers...see, that's one of my least fave Spike films, and it seems to be the fave of alot of unspikefans here, and it's because it's not really in his style...it's drier, more realist, not the "funky-fresh" style that I love about spike. I dunno. If you think Malcom is "boring", or SOS is a piece of shit, then there's probably not enough common ground for us to even discuss film. But I wanna touch on one more thing here, cuz someone said they didn't like the endings of his movies, which I think are just so inspired. I mean, basically there's two ways you can go with an ending: everything's wrapped uo nice and neat and it's totally unbelievable, or it's realisticly left up in the air, and you're left kinda unsatisfied. In Spike's films, mothing is really resolved, but you're left with some sort of poetic image that makes you feel "closure": The basketball over the wall, the picture of Martin and Malcom on Sal's wall, "Wake Up!", the leash at the Lincoln Memorial, etc. I stand by Spike, anyway.
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The idea that his movies portray all black people as Saints is totally wrong! There are very few morally unambiguous characters in his films. In fact, they don't even push a political agenda in the usual way...a roomful of people watching DTRT will all come away with a different idea of what the film was trying to say, based on their experiences.
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Summer of Sam was fantastic. Other then that I cant say I care for his work. Ill be keeping a close eye on his next one, though. If Summer of Sam is a sign of whats to come I may not have given the man as much credit as he deserves.
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Spike Lee's 'Summer of Sam' was really dissapointing, especially since he is one of our best filmmakers. I like his other films-'Malcolm X' and 'Do the Right Thing' just to name a couple. I am still looking forward to his next movie, though
Look for my website at www.onlymovies.digitalbomb.com -
Look, I'll be the first to agree that often Lee's films don't quite gel. SOS was, indeed, "a mess" and with the exception of X, Do the right thing, 4 Little Girls, and She's Gotta Have It, the man's career has been kinda shotty. However, besides all of that, besides Spike's CLASSIC CASE of foot-in-mouth-syndrome, you DO have to admit that he has NEVER, EVER, MADE THE SAME FILM TWICE. He never dipped his pen into any of the stereotypical profitable black film genres. You'll never see his name on a PHAT BEACH, NEXT FRIDAY, TRIPPIN' or other such triffling crap. Above all, even though he's made MANY missteps, he's done it trying to get somewhere. His films may not be that experimental on their own, but placed in a row next to each other, I think his catalog is one of the most WELL VARIED of any of the late 20th century AUTEUR directors. SOS might have been muddied storytelling, but the middle set piece featuring that WHO song was 10 of the coolest minutes I saw on screen last year. If Spike has to make 4 Crooklyn's just to get 1 Do the Right Thing, then I think it's worth it. Take this for what it's worth.
P.S. You're rightthough, his endings are kind of lame.
P.S.S. Oh yeah, I'm a white guy. AND I'm not a Mook OR a Wigger.
Thank You. -
For those who would like to give Spike a chance and learn more about his films. I recommend:
Mo Better Blues
Clockers
Malcom X
Do the Right Thing
Now granted, Spike talks way too much, don't let your opinion of him personally get in the way of you evaluating his work objectively. He single handedly started a new revolution in Black film. His films do have flaws but he is such a skilled filmaker. Also, if he's so racist he must also be racist against black folks cause School Daze is about the rift between light skinned blacks and dark skinned blacks on a historically black college campus. Oh, and the black characters in Do the Right Thing were also projected in a not so positive light. They were as much to blame for the riot as the pizza guys. He also has a knack for taking many talented black actors and giving them roles. Giancarlo Esposito, Wesley Snipes, Isiah Washington, Denzel Washington, have had some of there best roles in Spike Lee films. Hey, all I'm saying is watch his movies objectively analyze the nuances of the films and think about where black film would be today without him. -
This is just little old me talking but Summer of Sam was such a horrible experience for me I actually wanted to leave the theater. The characters were soooooo stereotypical. The scenes featuring berkowitz were a complete ripoff of "Seven". What was with the talking dog? I know Berkowitz claimed that happened but geeze, the scene just didn't work.
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Race-baiter. And just scroll down this TalkBack to see how well it's worked.
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Like every director and artist Spike has had his share of hits and misses. But I am a huge fan of his work especially Shes gotta have it, Clockers, School Daze, and Do the Right Thing. Spike is one of the best filmmakers we have going today IMHO. And I especially love his beginning credit sequences and how he ends a film.
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"Race-Baiter" is a phrase, not one word. And I don't think anything reported in this article even comes close to suggesting that Lee fits that category.
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I really really admire Spike Lee. His movies arent racist at all. They show exactly what it's like for someone of 'color' to try to live in a hypocritical society as the U.S. of A.
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60091, if it's hypocrisy you want, here's a relevant quote from Lee himself, in reference to NRA president Charlton Heston (whom I don't recall ever saying or doing a damn thing to him): "Shoot him with a .44 Bulldog." Clearly Lee sees Heston as part of the problem of violence in America, as do so many other people, but I really don't think I need to go into the irony of proposing to shoot him down (and yeah, I know Lee backtracked later and tried to write off his comment as a "joke", but that's an excuse even more transparent than he is). And now he's chiding those who would "attack" artists. Incredible. I say again: Spike Lee is a hateful, bigoted race-baiter. It disgusts me to think that such a man should command such a degree of respect and recognition in Hollywood.
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Black but uninteresting hack watered down Scorsese stolen pretention moronic and obsessive Italian portrayals. A evening with Spike Lee could not be more informative than an Oasis lesson on the Beatles who weren't that great to begin with. Lee's flavor of the month sundae has melted into a pool of lifted material and retarded aspirations.
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The same old arguments about blacks on film vs. Italians on film, etc., etc. Frankly, I'm sick of all of it. How many people in this country have ANY IDEA what life is like in Barrow, Bethel, or Hooper Bay? How many films have been made about ANY Natives in the modern world? How many, other than "Black Robes" or "Cabeza de Vaca" have ever shown us anything close to true history? How many films EVEN TRY to take viewers to a really different world? Nearly all of them are about the urban east, with a few films about California thrown in. Even films like "Fargo" have virtually nothing to do with their supposed settings. In the mean time, countless stories are ignored by the myopic elites in NY and LA, black and white alike.
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Great films like Do The Right Thing and Malcolm X have already been mentioned, but do not seem to convince the detractors. Therefore I add further proof that he is a good director: 4 Little Girls.
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There have been many good points made here and a lot of shit as well. Spike Lee is one of the gifts of cinema. He is not a "by committee" filmmaker. His films demand a certain intelligence by the viewer. I find it interesting that whenever there are black people in his films that say "white people suck" or whatever, certain people scream RACIST!!!! He shows characters for fuck's sake, just like any other above average filmmaker. Many of his characters are black and have problems with the majority of white people that they have encountered. That is real. End of story. And the stupid Farrakhan statement above was amazing. I've always felt that I would support him if I was black and felt that my people had been shit upon at such a consistant rate in this country. As far as his craft goes, Spike Lee is never boring, visually stunning, and always has heart for his films and this shows. If he's a whiny baby about getting projects like Malcom X, then maybe he should whine more often because that movie was great. And to address S.O.S. specifically, it pisses me off when people complain about the talking dog or his cameo in that movie. He has a sense of humor. Some things in life are senseless and insane. Observe.
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Spike is the man, fuck what everyone else has to say. You think White people are treated so badly in his films, but has it EVER occured to ANY of you that situations in his films might be based on actual experiences? That every single White person Black folks encounter is NOT a knight in shining fucking armor? (if you're forgetting that racism is real, reflect on the guy who got dragged to death in Texas, then imagine all the shit happening that we never even hear about). I bet you (magically) don't even notice how horribly Black people are treated in 99.9% of most films, and in life for that matter. I'm sure your observations NEVER go in that direction. And if you're SO sensitive about someone being racist, why are you ignoring the quality of filmmaking & just looking for the presence & treatment of White people? Sounds like a serious case of supremacy to me. As bad as Black people are talked about in Goodfellas, I'm still intelligent enough to know that it's one of the greatest films ever made & I don't hold that against the filmmaker or the film. I feel sorry for anyone who can't see how truly talented this man is. If you had any kind of appreciation for the journey a filmmaker goes through, you would understand that the man has a vision & you wouldn't want his shit to be watered down & phony as hell. You would applaud him for making the damn journey with his viewpoint intact. Then again, I'm probably addressing a bunch of fucking computer nerds anyway. What the hell do you know about being a filmmaker? Nothing, obviously, so just keep typing your stupid-ass criticisms of one of the greatest filmmakers of our time, fuckin' idiots...
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Spike Lee is the most original and exciting filmmaker of our time. The very fact that he is both loved and hated speaks volumes about the man. As visually exciting as his films are I think what really sets Spike Lee apart is the fact that he makes people think ! SUMMER OF SAM was all about the way people use scapegoats to avoid confronting their own evils. GIRL 6 showed the way some women are pulled into the sex industry and destroyed by it. SHE'S GOTTA HAVE IT challenges the whole Madonna/Whore complex that many men of all races have.( In spite of this, Spike Lee is still critized as being a sexist ??? )DO THE RIGHT THING exposed the ugly reality of racism. That racism is not something that ended with the civil rights movement. I personally found DO THE RIGHT THING to be a wake up call that opened my eyes to the racism in American Society. Spike Lee never white washes his black characters. The riot at the end of DO THE RIGHT THING is instigated by two BLACK characters. Two black characters who are clearly racist! We all remember the scene in MALCOLM X where a white girl asks him what she can do to help and he says,"Nothing." Spike Lee could easilly have not had that scene in order to make Malcolm X look better ... but he didn't. SCHOOL DAZE potrays black characters that are prejudiced against eachother based upon the relative lightness or darkness of their skin!!! How can anyone possibly say that he's trying to make black people look good and white people look bad? Spike Lee's movies that deal with race deal with the truth that MOST people are prejudiced on some level. Like anything else there are DEGREEES of racism. Furthermore, anyone who doesn't think racism is a MAJOR problem in America is living in a dreamworld. I'm white. I work as a waiter. Most of my fellow employees are white and most of them have made remarks about black customers. Truth. One has asked me to take over tables for him where he had black customers on a number of ocassions. Another has made unbelievably offensive jokes in regard to black customers on a number of occasions. If I had a dime for everytime another white person said, " I'm not prejudiced but..." I could finance my own movie. Most black people who complain about white racism are not saying all whites are card carrying members of the KKK, they're talking about the kinds of things I just mentioned. Even if you don't like DO THE RIGHT THING, remember it was praised by the critics and ignored by the Acadamy. Kinda funny how well DRIVING MISS DAISY did the following year. I can't help thinking that after the anger in DO THE RIGHT THING it was comforting for some Acadamy voters to see a black man in the role of a chauffer.
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Obviously racism is still very prevalent in the world. Sure, critically those are decent German films. However, when the Nazis took power, UFA died along with German cinema. Thus it's people like you who "killed" the German golden age. Cause let's face it, the success of the German golden age was brought about by the Jewish population of Germany. As for your hero Leni Riefenstahl, she can suck my uncircumcised cock!
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Just a quick note to thank PapaFreud for writing the most intelligent, calmly delivered post on Spike Lee's work today - it is pretty disturbing to see what happens when some guys let fly with their deepest emotions from the safe anonymity of the net. All sorts of shit seems to come out. It may be your honest opinions, but I think you should stop and think a little bit more before you let rip, it's this stupid megaphone declamation at each other which created this whole race-hate business in the first place. I agree with PapaFreud, Spike Lee is far to intelligent to simply say Hate the White Man - the final riot at the end of Do The Right Thing, and some of Malcolm X's behaviour shows to me that he is dealing with ALL race's prejudice. Do The Right Thing (and parts of this Talkback) illustrated what will happen when we are governed by our reflexive, instinctive and baseless race hatreds. To change requires effort, but I think it is one we all need to make.
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I've watched a few of spike lee's "joints" over the years. Malcom X was a very engaging film, helped tremendously by denzel's performance. I've also been able to watch if not enjoy entirely summer of sam, school daze, or he got game. But get on the bus was heavy-handed, trite, silly. given that the film went from pitch to screen in less than a year, what else it to be expected. It reminded me of the canterbury tales, in that so many facets of black culture were stuffed into so few characters. the gay republican ex-marine, for example; how is anyone supposed to relate to this character?
and to the scholar above who implied us white folk afraid to attend a magic johnson theater the night a spike joint opens--how many movies have magic johnson theaters not carried for fear of inciting violence?
getting back to filmmakers, john singleton has blown all the promise shown with boyz n the hood. richard price's shaft script was a really fun read, and tis a shame that singleton will have to screw it up. I have a lot more hope for malcom lee, who made the best man. or whomever made the wood. Kasi Lemmons shows way more promise as far as being a good director, reguardless of ethnicity. -
Mar 11, 2000 1:04:59 PM CST
Harry bathes!!! And what Spike Lee's next film should be!
by richard_simmons
Hey Hons! Harry, next time you are bathing, can I watch? All that weight in a tub turns me on!! So, anyway, Spike Lee should forget about this Ali guy. He needs to throw all of his manhood into me or a biopic on RuPaul. Now there is a man who has led a strange and interesting life. I would give up sex for a week to see something like that on the BIG, LARGE, THROBBING, SILVER screen. See ya later. Bi!
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DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS was directed by Carl Franklin not John Singleton.
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People are complaining that Spike used racism to wrestle away "Malcolm X" from Norman Jewinson. I thank God that he did, and if there is no God, I thank Spike. Lee's "Malcolm X" is one of the best films of the `90's, and one of the very best biography films ever made. Can you imagine what would have happened if the man behind "The Hurricane" had gotten a hold of it? Good lord. The ONLY thing that movie had going for it was Denzel. Beyond him, it was a trite, condecending peice of crap. It turned a potentially riveting movie into a movie of the week. As for Mann and the Ali project, that is different. Mann will atleast make a good film. But I don't think it's racist or ignorant in anyway to worry that a white director might attempt to downplay Ali's politcal views. He was, after all, a member of the Nation of Islam, the sect that preached the "white man as devil" philosophy so often attributed to Malcolm X, and which X get's very little credit for disavowing the last year of his life. Th track record of white directors when dealing with the issue of race relations really isn't that great. Too often they want to attach racsim to extremists instead of the establishment, and they usually want to clearly relegate it to the past. I don't mean to say that Mann will do the same thing because he's white-- we'll see about that. I'm looking forward to the project. But I don't think that people should be accused for worrying.
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Yes Spike made X and it was very good. There is nothing wrong with showing African American culture on film, but how can you deny that Spike is a racist. And for those who mentioned whitey's complaining, I would think after the oppression African Americans were under 50 years ago you realize that RACISISM ISN'T A JOKE and shouldn't be supported. Where do you think Nazis and KKK started? Spike's thoughts that Mann can't do Ali because he not black is the STUPIDEST SHIT I HAVE EVER HEARD. So now we should separate director's dependent on what COLOR the main actor is, so Brett Ratner should have never directed Rush Hour it should have been done by someone who is "blackenese" to quote a line. It's Mann job as a director to make sure that Will Smith acts well, he doesn't need to be African American for that.
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Guess who the voice of the dog was in SOS? None other than John Tuturro! Wonder if they who accuse Spike of being a white-hating race-baiter because he reacts strongly to racism ever wonder why he always wants to work with that particular white man. Actually, I wonder if they think at all or if they're just programmed.
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"Quentin is infatuated with that word... what does he want to be made - an honorary black man?" - Lee, on the use of the n-word in "Jackie Brown"............ "Wim Wenders had better watch out 'cause I'm waiting for his ass. Somewhere deep in my closet I have a Louisville Slugger bat with Wenders' name on it." -Lee, on the director of "The End of Violence"............ and my personal favorite: "How do the fucking Rolling Stones get fucking Budweiser to sponsor their fucking tour? People die on the fucking
highway drunk driving; what kind of question is that?... This whole fucking double standard, mother fucking white performers, white entertainers, endorse any fucking thing they want in the world and one black man wants to do something and he has to bear the fucking weight of the whole race." - Lee, reacting to a question about his endorsement of Taco Bell -
I don't think Spike Lee's talent as a filmmaker should be questioned. With films like DO THE RIGHT THING, SHE'S GOTTA HAVE IT, MALCOLM X, CLOCKERS, and 4 LITTLE GIRLS, he obviously proves that. Sure, he has his misses just like any other filmmaker (SUMMER OF SAM hands down was a complete mess and MO'BETTER BLUES & GIRL 6 rambled on and on...) but visually and rhythmically, he shows a greater range than about 90% of filmmakers working today. The problem with Spike arises with some of his themes. As much as Spike's supporters want to deny this on AICN, he DOES have a problem with stereotypes and RACISM. Someone used the example earlier of the white girl in MALCOLM X who wanted to help but was turned down, as a positive portrayal. If anything, this scene illuminates my point. She was used as a joke--a cariacture of dumb, uninformed white liberalism. Its seems lots of times Spike wants to have it both ways--chastising us for racism but not embracing any simbelance of the idea that, hey, maybe not all white people are that way (especially the audience for his films--I sometimes even wonder IF he wants that?). JUNGLE FEVER--a provocative but hateful film whose basic message was that white people who date black people only want them for sex. Being in an interracial relationship for almost 2 years now--I would strictly disagree with that (although the sex is great!). Some have used the argument that he portrays his black characters in negative lights too--I agree and kudos to him but this is beside the point. We're not going tic for tac here. Over and over again in his films, white people are used as dumb, hate-mongering racists with Italians not coming off as much better (I think the combined IQ of the characters in SOS was about 73). A talk-back user said earlier that 99% of "white" films contain offensive black stereotypes. Where are these films? I haven't seen anything like that in the past decade. The latest furor over ALI further reduces his character in my eyes. The idea that a black man can only tell the story of Ali is ridiculous. Muhammed Ali is an AMERICAN icon, not just a black icon. Michael Mann repeatedly makes brilliant films with an edge. He has a lot of rage too, but he doesn't get tied up in the knots of them. You got away with this argument once for MALCOLM X, and you made a great film out of it, but don't try to do it again. It won't work.
My message to Mr. Lee: Spike, I have no doubt you've had hard times in your life. You've gone on to prove that you're a filmmaker with a singular vision that is capable of making some very lyrical and thought-provoking films. You've shouldered the responsibility of being a lone voice of black rage in the film community for over 15 years. Things have gotten better and, while society is far from perfect, how about giving yourself a little breather and make a kalidescopic film with not specifically black and italian characters, but a muti-ethnic cast with a fascinating story. You can do this. There is a whole generation of caucasians coming up who have NONE of the prejudices (against ANY ethnicity) that our parents and grandparents have had before and furthermore want to end any trace of it. If you'll just consider this idea, then maybe you can bring yourself fully into the 21st century.
P.S. Anyone saying John Singelton is a better filmmaker is out of his mind. He had his one shot with BOYZ N THE HOOD (a film very much needed at the time, but basically a glorified Afterschool Special) which he blew--SHAFT will prove that! -
Just wanted to clarify. The white liberal woman who wanted to help was taken directly from the autobiography. It was absolutely real so this in no way illuminates your point. In his autobiography, he states that he really felt sorry to shut her out as cold as he did, but that's where his perspective was at the time. It was essential for Spike Lee to use that scene.
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Mar 11, 2000 2:52:58 PM CST
Quixote, you're absolutely right! "One False Move" was GREAT! Sp
by uncapie
Just where the Anne Heche is Carl Franklin and what is he up to? I'll take his work over Spike anyday!
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It may have been in the autobiography, but as you pointed out, he later felt sorry for what he did. I don't remember THAT scene from the film--only the coldness of the encounter. So, again, that message remains.
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There was an earlier post where someone claimed Malcom X glossed over the Nation of Islam's involvement in Malcolm's assassination. Actually, I believe Spike was receiving death threats because he WAS implicating the NOI in the film. You're blind if you can't see that. Try watching the last hour of the film over again, or better yet, the whole film. ** As for Brundledan and his book of Spike quotes, so what? Do you judge a filmmaker by their sound bites? I won't go into the hypocrisy of someone like Charlton Heston, and I've made remarks myself about shooting him which are said in anger but not 100% serious. As for Spike's comments about endorsements I don't know why you used that to attack Spike because what he said is right on the money (no pun intended). I guess a director who has a big mouth shouldn't have any power in Hollywood. Or just a black director with a big mouth? You detractors can hate the guy, but don't be so obtuse in calling him an inferior filmmaker, because anyone with a miniumum of aesthetic knowledge can attest to the guy's skills. He has chosen his subject matter with care and passion, more than you can say for the other 99% of the directors out there. He is an auteur in every sense of the word. The fact that he sometimes goes too far or makes a messy film is something that all great filmmakers do because they often shoot too high (compared to the safe and audience appealing pandering of someone like Spielberg), people like Scorsese, Welles, Stone, P.T. Anderson, and I'm sure the future films of Tarantino. *** By the way before anyone attacks the skills of Norman Jewison, he did bring us the brilliant racial commentary of In the Heat of the Night, which unfortunately is still all too relevant.
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Hi Hons! Back again! I have been against this man (Spike - What the fuck kind of name is that anyway?) since I saw Girl 6 to tell you the truth. There was so many anti-semetic remarks in that film, it made me eat 2 bags of corn NUTS. I took that tape out of my VCR and defacated on it. Now, in all seriousness though, I truly think that Spike Lee should have been the director for X-Men. Whoever decided to go with that assbag Bryan Singer (although he is cute) must be out of their mind. Apt Pupil was just a ploy to bring back Nazism and Usual Suspects was ok, but nowhere near a Torch Song Trilogy. Bi!
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You know, its "liberals" like you that certainly have their heads up their fucking asses! Chuck Heston has done a such a wide body of work that your pitiful little insigificant fucking puke ass couldn't even hold a candle to! How dare you say "you'd like to shoot him!" Who the fuck are you?! What are your accomplishments?! At least Heston can be called a MAN! That's more than anyone can say for you! And when Spike said to Heston that he'd like to shoot him, Heston's reply was, "Come on over!" I see Spike chickened out on that one. So go have your peppermint flavored enema, while wearing your Birkies, eating your tofu bullshit, while listening to transendental Zamphir pan flute music. Oh, and try to act like a man!
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As president of the SAG, Charlton Heston worked tirelessly to break down color barriers in the Hollywood. In 1963, he marched on Washington with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., risking both his film career and his LIFE to strike a blow for civil rights. All to help expand opportunites for blacks in the film industry. All so that Spike Lee could come along and advocate his murder. Is the irony thick enough for everyone?
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I hate guns, I can't stand to be around them, but I don't mind Charlton Heston. He was Moses and Taylor for Gods sake! Most gun owners know what the hell they are doing and respect the law. However the 'other' gun owners who don't respect the law just get slaps on the wrist for whatever crime they commit. The NRA can do whatever the fuck they want. It is just the punishment laws in this country are so 'PUSSYFIED'. Make them so scary as to scare the hell out of any would-be criminal. Really make them think twice.
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Mar 11, 2000 8:13:25 PM CST
Come on out, Lazarus! I'm your huckleberry! Man With No Name sho
by uncapie
Oral sex with a 97 year old woman! Damn, you must be one ugly son-of-a-bitch! German Expressionism has given birth to so many creative views in filmaking! They knew how to light and make use of depth of field in their films! They knew more about filmaking than the jerks that are shooting $80 million dollar films! Juts because silthlord likes German films, does not make him a Nazi, you ignorant ass! That's the problem with today's "Young Filmakers": they don't want to learn their craft! Everything is owed to them! They have nothing to fight for except how to fuck the other guy and how I can get my BMW or SUV faster! They can't grow! They're stagnant wanna-be's! Lee should get ON the bus and get outta town! Give me Singleton, Franklin or Townsend any day over Lee!
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Mar 12, 2000 12:00:20 AM CST
How many good films does a director have to make before he/she c
by gsolo
Do The Right Thing!
She's Gotta Have It!
Malcolm X!
Girl 6!
Clockers!
So he made a couple that you didn't care for. Why don't you give it a fuckin' try? And if you don't like the issues he believes are worth making films about...walk out! I'm sure a more enlightening film like Scream 3 is playing next door.
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You seem to echo the very thoughts in my mind. No need to post when my view has already been spoken for...
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Thought you weren't going to waste your time talking about Spike? Just can't wait to see how people will respond to your ignorance, huh? You fucking flake. And uncapie, damn your original. Just cut and paste next time. Kraid, do you have a brain, or are you a Chatty Kathy Doll, pulling your own string?
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In response to Uncapie's totally offensive and personal attacks..."Chuck Heston has done a such a wide body of work that your pitiful little insigificant fucking puke ass couldn't even hold a candle to! How dare you say "you'd like to shoot him!" Who the fuck areyou?! What are your accomplishments?!" Well, to be honest, Heston is widely considered a "joke" in the realm of classic Hollywood actors. His performances are famous for being exercises in wooden righteousness, something Harrison Ford apparently is now striving for. So while he has been in a number of well-known and good films, he is hardly one of the better actors in film history. "At least Heston can be called a MAN! That's more thananyone can say for you!So go have your peppermintflavored enema, while wearing your Birkies, eating your tofu bullshit..." This is pretty funny. You must be really proud. Do you play a lot of "touch" football and pat your friends on the ass when they make a good play? Congratulations for being a fucking fratboy. That's really something to be proud of. As for me, I happen to be really annoyed by the granola type of guy you described; I'm quite far from it. But if the alternative is being a macho Limp Bizkit latent-homo like yourself, I'd be more than happy to eat a soy burger or too. Asshole. ** Brundledan brought up some good points about the contributions that Charlton Heston has made to society, but there is a very large hypocrisy when someone decries the violence in today's films and chastises Hollywood, while at the same time supports the National Rifle Association. The message that guns are "O.K." if used "responsibly" is a much more harmful message than anything in the movies. Guns are only used for one purpose: shooting things. Whether it's people, animals, or targets doesn't change the fact that it promotes an aggressive and violent mentality that, as I've stated before is long outdated and is helping to further flush this society down the toilet.
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Thanks for repeating me, parrot-style. "Lazarus, want a cracker?" Nice to see you put down homosexuals with your cheap shots. Guess that puts you in the racist catagory along with your hero Spike. Guns are a tool and like any tool people have to be taught how to use them. Its the person's responsibility and the cause and effect of his/her actions when they use it. Heston has proven himself as a fine actor and a politcian. You'd know that if you did your homework and read his book or any bio book on him for that matter. As for myself, I can only vouch that I've held my position under fire in many tense situations with other men. Its something you wouldn't understand. Its called camaradreship. And if that's what you implicate as "queer" or "faggy", go Tell It To the Marines.
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"QUACK, QUACK!"
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Say what you want about Spike Lee, call him a hack, call him a racist, a shameless self-promoter, etc. But the fact of the matter is he makes films. He keeps making films, and he has not stopped making films since his career started. He's worked with Denzel Washington, Harvey Keitel, Jon Tuturo, Wesley Snipes, Annabella Scioria, John Leguizamo, Ben Gazzara, Danny Aiello, Delroy Lindo, Charles Dutton, Samuel L. Jackson, Martin Scorsese, and a host of other talented people I'm too hungover to remember this morning.
You all, on the other hand, are posting weak and piping criticisms on a website, throwing stones at him to satisfy your racially motivated jealousy. Spike's a loud-mouthed black man making at least one movie a year and you all just can't stand it. Who's the hack now? -
Lazarus, guns have proliferated in America since the country's INCEPTION (and even before that). People have been toting 'em around for 225+ years. In pioneer days, it was a NORMAL practice to bring guns to school. ANY kid, at any age, had access to one. They DID use guns "responsibly", meaning that they didn't shoot as many of their classmates as they could. Occurrences such as the Littleton massacre were unheard of as little as FIVE years ago. Isn't it awfully superficial to blame guns for a problem that obviously has much, much deeper roots in society itself? Gun control wouldn't have stopped the Columbine killers. Heston's defending guns as a RIGHT. After all, the Bill of Rights itself says that guns are "O.K.". I don't know that I agree with him that movies and TV are primarily to blame, but that's a more sensible argument than "Guns kill people". It's a worn-out cliche, but its still true: PEOPLE kill people. The gun is just an instrument. If a guy set on murder can't get a gun, then he'll just use something else. Maybe a common household item, like a kitchen knife. Should we get rid of those, too?...... As for Heston the actor, SURE he's often the target of parody (I really miss Phil Hartman - he did a better Heston than Heston), but he'd hardly have had such a prolific acting career if he was a BAD ACTOR. I mean, really - can you imagine "Planet of the Apes" without Heston? Or "Soylent Green"? Or "The Omega Man" ("There are no... phones... ringing... DAMMIT!")? Or "BEN-HUR" (Sure, Ramon Navarro was okay, but Charlton Heston WAS Ben-Hur).
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Just had to comment when I read that Spike said USC and UCLA film schools restrict the filmmaking process... I am a film student at USC (so I can't speak for UCLA) but I don't see how he says USC restricts anything.
We just finished 5-minute 16mm films, which took 8 weeks to shoot and edit. The instructors told us, straight out, you can make any film you want to make. Nothing has to be "greenlit" or approved by the instructors in any way. Sure they give you advice along the way, because that's their job, but the fact that the only restriction is that the film run under 5 minutes and 33 seconds is hardly a restriction at all.
Ok, I'm off my soap box now.
joe -
So we've seen some of Spike's saucier quotes, probably the ones that best illustrate the point that Spike is racist. I have no idea what the context of the Wim Wender's quote was, and it can't be justified, but, out of context, there's nothing to indicate that he's saying it because Wender's is white. I seem to have a vague recollection that Wenders said, when DTRT opened at Cannes, that it advocated racial violence... a dumb claim. Spike could have been messing with him for that. For the other quotes... Tarantino himself has practically admitted he wants to be an "honorary black man". He says he considers himself black! He's made the use of the word "nigger" hip, too, and he's not beyond criticism for it. The Budweiser quote is clearly Spike reacting to what he percieves as racism, whether or not one agrees with his assesment. I do believe his fear that Mann might downplay the racial issues of Ali's life and instead focus on his iconic status as a sports legend is understandable. Mann has only made one film that has dealt with racial issues... Last of the Mohicans... enough said. Is Ali an American icon or an African-American icon? He's both. When he first beat Sonny Liston, White America HATED him. He was, after all, a member of the NOI, an anti-white organization. We also have to understand the difference between the racism of the NOI (which Spike is not guilty of), and the racism of the KKK, and, for that matter, the FBI and the American law enforcement establishment. One was racism as a reaction to racism, and the other was racism as a reaction to civil rights. NOI's racism today is totally irrelevant, but back then, when the reaction to people standing up for equal rights was beating, maiming, water hosing... it was understandable. I think most people would react the same way if they were being oppressed like that. People accuse Spike of the same kind of racism. I don't agree, but regardless, they cannot deny that his attitude is a reaction to racism. For those who haven't experienced it, it's hard to understand. The least they can do is lay aside all claims to being able to understand it, instead of pretending they have a better understanding of the issue than the millions who claim to be a victim of it.
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I'm gonna take what I presume will be a higher road and not attack Heston, discuss the merits of Germen film, and I will stay away from the homosexual debates here. The subject, for those off track, is Spike Lee. As far as Spike goes, he still has a lot to prove as far as garnering the respect of the American public. Yes, I believe that the man is sincere in trying make good films, and I do see places IN ALL OF HIS FILMS where he does have some very human and touching moments. The problem is that Spike is not making films that appeal to people ALL THE WAY THROUGH, and he loses money due to this. Unfortunately people, money is the only color that matters in Hollywood. I say none of this because of Spike's skin color, the man could be transparent as far as I'm concerned. But let's look at the man's track record and see if there is not another reason why people dislike the man. Whoopi Goldberg used to have a thing for wearing colored contact lenses... it seemed at the time that Whoopi had the right to do this, being an American and all. Spike, who really shouldn't give a damn, insisted on calling her an Uncle Tom who was trying curry favor with white America by trying to be more white. Spike has made his famous comment about shooting Heston, which was supposed to be a joke. (This "joke" coming from a man who is justly upset over the harsh treatment of his own people over the centuries which resulted in many of them being murdered. Funny, Spike. Ha Ha.) This man whined until he got his way and was allowed to film Malcolm X. And the film itself mostly focused on Malcolm as a young thug and then as a man of priciple, but still wrong for hating white people. The film never really dug into who he became after his trip to Mecca and learned to be a new man. We hear him say he is a new man and we see the press conference that follows... but we see nothing and have to wonder if this was just political rhetoric on X's part, or if it is heartfelt. Spike was incensed to hear that he would not be given the same budget for Malcolm as Stone was getting JFK. (Can you see Malcolm on the phone with the executives? "But I really need millions of dollars more to fully tell the tale of this man. The millions you gave me were not enough."- Spike unfortunately was not cluing in to the fact that JFK had a stellar, Hollywood-proven cast in place, and that Stone was a proven money-maker... unlike himself.) Lee cries foul when he does not get his budget (suddenly all of the executives are "racists", not "concerned that he would lose money again"). Spike wants to hit Wim Wenders with a bat??? Well, hello, tolerance! My, Spike, you are quite the young thinker! The bottom line, though, is that Spike just does not deliver. Even if you like his past films, THE PAST is exactly what it is. If you can no longer tell a story that makes people want to see it, you are washed up. He loses money, which would be okay if he was having some sort of critical success, but he's lost that, too. But if you really wanna see what "challenging" film making the man is capable of: rent the documentary "Lumiere" (and make sure it's the documentary and not the film). The point of the doc? Have 50 directors from all over the world make a one minute film, using the world's oldest camera, with no cuts and only three takes. You would surprised by the inventiveness of the film makers. Lynch's was eerie and bizarre and most of them stretched this one minute format in wild ways that made you think. And what did Spike do to face the challenge? He put his baby in a carriage, and placed the camera on her and tried to make her say "Daddy."--- What it all comes down to, is Spike is a hateful man raging at racisim not directed at him (and sometimes not even there), he feels he is just in insulting people and letting his tongue fly as it may, and cries the race card when he does not get his way. He's bitter and frankly I'll be more prepared to listen to him when he starts letting his work do his talking for him instead of his big, hateful mouth. You're a punk, Spike. A bad guy. Go to Hell.-- Everybody be cool... YOU be cool.
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I always feel........alienated watching Spike Lee films. Maybe I'm paranoid !
No.........damnit........I'm not fucking paranoid.........he doesn't like us non-blacks ! -
Brundledan, your comments are well-thought out and stated, but I still feel that while guns may have been declared a "right" back in the late 1700's, they shouldn't be now. You said that in pioneer days kids brought guns to school. Well we aren't in pioneer days anymore. We have police now, and we didn't back then. And even if it is a right, why would you WANT one? Why are people fascinated with weaponry? They are tools alright, but tools of violence. As for the "if you take guns away they will use something else" notion, if all the guns in the world disappeared, you'd have a much better chance defending your home against a guy breaking in with a knife. If someone enters your house with a gun, and you have a gun, you're probably going to get shot anyway (as well as members of your family). It's a no-win situation. Statistics show that guns kept in a home have killed many, many more people living there than invaders. MorGoth made some great points that I can't really improve on. ** As for Uncapie, let's review your last post, shall we? "Nice to see you put down homosexuals with your cheap shots. Guess that puts you in the racist catagory" Actually, I was putting down LATENT-homosexuals like yourself, who have repressed their feminine aspect to the point where they subconsciously act out on these feelings with intense exercises in male-bonding (see most Fraternity initiations). I find it funny that people like you who hate gays (the evidence being your tirades against "wusses" and "sissies") are the ones who actually engage in the homoerotic activities (watch Top Gun lately?). Next, "Heston has proven himself as a fine actor and a politcian. You'd know that if you did your homework and read his book or any bio book on him for that matter." Oh, I see, if only I read his book I could understand how great of an actor he is? I believe watching a large number of his films is all the homework I need to do. And he's a great politician, too? What elected office did he hold? President of the N.R.A.? Ha! What the fuck are the credentials for that organization? Probably the same for Grand Wizard of the K.K.K. And your side-splitting closer: "As for myself, I can only vouch that I've held my position under fire in many tense situations with other men [insert joke here--LL]...Its called camaradreship [actually, it's "camaraderie", and that word doesn't really fit here anyway--LL]. And if that's what you implicate as "queer" or"faggy", go Tell It To the Marines." Yeah, you fucking jarheads have a really hard time hearing that your ritualistic boy's club is nothing more than a testosterone-fueled load of fascism. Running around yelling and shooting rifles doesn't make you a man, pal. It makes you just as much of a tool as the gun you're holding. "One of us, one of us, one of us..."
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Mar 12, 2000 6:58:32 PM CST
Maybe so, Lazarus, but the military does a pretty damn good job
by uncapie
The line from "Rich Man, Poor Man" sums your up attitude. Mr. Jordache(Edward Asner) is talking to his son, Tom(Nick Nolte) about his experience in World War I and how he had to kill a man in a fierce combat situation. His reply was, "I shot a French solider in the back as he was running home to his mama!" Guess that makes you the French soldier. Hey, you can call me all kinds of names. That and fifty cents will get me a bus ride. But, let's see you say the same shit you're saying down in
the middle of the VA center. Let's see how tough you really are. -
Charlton Heston was PRESIDENT OF THE SCREEN ACTORS GUILD IN 1966-1971! I guess, according to you, that makes all former and later presidents of the guild either KKK members or Nazi's. What a moron! And I was right, you don't know what "camaradreship" is.
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I do believe I have the brain to at least spell right. And what the fuck kinda post was that? I have every right to voice my opinion the same as you have every right to fill forums with useless and mundane dribble. Seems you really are enjoying that right. Why don't you actually use your oceans of free time(of which I'm sure you have plenty of) and post something worth the two hours it took for you to think that American Classic up? Then I will show you who has a brain. Until then, go back to cleaning the pubes from your keyboard... And Lazarus, you really know how to lose respect, especially with an elitist attitude such as yours.
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Spike Lee is a boob. His films stink. Suburban bred Lee misrepresents the blacks with ridiculously written portrayals, comfortable and appealing to a white movie paying public.
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...and your statement that guns shouldn't be a right NOW, in the world of 2000, gives voice to it. First of all, you said that if all the guns in the world disappeared, you'd have a much better chance against a burglar armed only with a knife. Problem: Guns will never "disappear". Even if guns were outlawed altogether, criminals would still find a way to get them. The more industrious thieves would BUILD them themselves. In the end, the gun would still be an option for the common criminal to whom the law meant nothing, but no longer one for the law-abiding citizen, as a means of defense......... But on to the bigger question I was talking about. I don't know if you take your position this far, but the ultimate goal of the extreme anti-gun faction is the abolition of the Second Amendment. Now, if we decide that one of the original ten amendments comprising the Bill of Rights no longer has any relevance in today's society, what's to stop certain interests from examining the other nine, and raising questions about whether THEY are still relevant? Ridiculous? Not at all. Let's say the anti-gun interests succeeded in abolishing the Second Amendment. Just did away with it altogether. For the first time in American history, the Bill of Rights itself would be fundamentally altered, and that would set a precedent, a very dangerous precedent. Like falling dominoes, the other nine amendments would begin to come under scrutiny, and the questions would begin to be raised as to how relevant THEY are in 21st-Century America - after all, they were written in the 1780s, at the same time as the discredited Second Amendment; would it not make sense to reevaluate them to determine which parts are "relevant" to the present and which are not, as we did with the excised right to bear arms? The debate would grow louder and louder. Are there situations in which the right against unreasonable searches and seizures should be overridden... for the "greater public good"? Might the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination come to be seen as an impediment to efficient "justice"? Maybe, just maybe, freedom of religion and the press itself should be withheld in cases in which unrestricted speech is considered "dangerous"? "Nah," a lot of people say. "That would never happen." Why not? We cannot excise bits and pieces of the Bill of Rights with surgical precision and expect the rest to be unaffected. Democracy will always come at a cost, and there will always be those who will abuse the benefits of a free society, no matter how many laws we pass. Thomas Jefferson wasn't kidding around when he said that "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance." Nor was Ben Franklin when he said that "those who would sacrifice liberty for security will lose both and deserve neither."
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I agree with a large portion of what you wrote. Admittedly, a perfect world where no guns exist (some people who get off on shooting animals for sport wouldn't be in favor of this) is very unlikely. And yes, criminals could find a way to get guns if they were banned in this country, just like women are able to get abortions in places where they are outlawed. I'm sure normal, non-criminal citizens could probably get a hold of a gun themselves if they really wanted to. But there's two things to look at here: Why does England have such a low number of gun-related deaths every year? What is it about their society that helps them achieve this level of security, and how can we learn from it as it applies to this country (which is a very different society to be sure)? But relating more to what you're talking about, abolishing guns altogether isn't the main problem. The problem is that the NRA attempts to stonewall every effort to regulate or cut down on guns. How can you vote in favor of automatic weapons? How can you think a waiting period or I.D. checks are a bad idea? This proposed system of having guns that work only when activated by an authorized thumbprint or whatever--great idea! You have to admit that this country does not have very safe and responsible gun laws. You want the second amendment to stay intact. Fine. But do you think we have all earned the right to bear arms? Shouldn't you have to go through just as much red tape as everything else in this bureaucracy? The NRA isn't helping their image by admitting the laughable notion of people running around with automatic weapons is a bad one. They aren't helping the problem by resisiting the implementation of tough, enforcable regulations on the purchasing and licensing issues. But I agree with you that if you start taking away some rights, who knows what is next? It's a very scary thought indeed.
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You know, I've seen a number of Spike Lee's films and I like most of them - not all of them, but then I'd have a hard time naming someone who's ENTIRE body of work I can honestly say I dig. I'm also aware I may not necessarily be the target demographic for a lot of his films, tho the best films are universally acclaimed. My point is, based solely on his final product, Spike Lee is an OK filmmaker - but when you include the bigger picture of how these films were made, and how truly unique a lot of them are, you have to admit they are quite impressive.
I don't know how many of you out there are filmmakers, but I can tell you it's not easy - even without the barriers and stumbling blocks that Spike had to overcome, so I have nothing but respect for the man.
It's very easy to be nasty, and put him down and whatever, but I wonder what kind of privilged position you do this from, and if anyone can honestly say they've done better themselves? I can't. Browsing through most of these posts, it seems everyone is just getting personal and attacking each other, rather than actually having something intelligent to say.
Not that everything said should be intelligent.... -
Coming from a future black film maker. I do have a great deal of respect for Spike, but also think
he does play the race card too much. What he failed to realize is the only reason he got the chance to make movies is because She's Gotta Have It made a profit.
Which is the only true color Hollywood understands -- MONEY!!!
I can understand his gripe because
there are very few,if any, good
black projects that the studio's get behind fully (Jackie Robinson)
so when ones does come along and it's handed over to a white director (Norm Jewison)who's track record at the box office of lately hasn't been any better than Spikes. You may not agree, but you should understand why he
kicks and screams.
Cause let's be for real here. How many of you think those white studio heads consider a black director when all those white projects cross there desks...thought so. -
Yeah he is. The ONLY reason why this guy has a carrer is that he was able to w0ork off the white gulit of liberals in the late 80's. "What I'm no racist I love spike lee." ad the liberal bias of film critics. They were never going to trash his eraly works since they would be\ considered racists. Now here we are in the 210 years later and the feel good aura of this asshole has worn off.
Can any one of you name this Malcom X waana be last hit? Why casuse he has not have any since 1992. The "you better review my movies postivly or yu a racist motherfucker" and no longer works. Even the entertainment press is tiring of this assfuck. Why? HE ISNT MAKING ANYONE ANYFUCKING MONEY. He's burned so many studios and fiancers and has shown such uttercontempt for even african americans that people are just fed up with this prick. Soon well see this asshole where he belongs hanging out on a brooklyn street corner with his fellow one hit wonder John (I'm a one hit wonder)
Singelton. There are better African American who are TRUE pioneers Bill Duke and Forrest Wittaker... -
Spike Lee is one of the best american filmmakers of the modern era... He's had great films (Malcom X, Do the Right Thing, Crooklyn, Mo'Better Blues) and only a few mediocre films (Girl 6, Summer of Sam was pretty good), But match him up with Scorsese, Coppola, Stone and Speilberg and he comes away shining. Coppola embarasses himself every time he touches the camera ( Jack?) Scorsese hasn't been good since Goodfellas (Casino was sooo redundant) Stone has lost his edge (Any Given Sunday was good but it kind of let the NFL off the hook) and Speilberg is on and off (The Lost World ugh, Amistad-Lame) So give spike a break...
Many people also dismiss Spike because he doesn't reassure his White audience. People seemed to get ticked off because he doesn't make a point to say WHITE PEOPLE ARE BASICALLY good people... I think he believes most white people are basically good, so much so that he doesn't feel the need to reassure them the way Norman Jewison (The Hurricane) Alan Parker (the blasphemous mess Mississippi Burning) and Speilberg (Amistad) do.
And finally why does Spike has to be compared to John Singelton, Carl Franklin and Bill Duke? Can there only be ONE annointed BLACK filmaker. I've read many posts saying they prefer Singelton over Lee any day. Why would you "prefer" Singelton over Lee? Would you say you "prefer" Speilberg over P.T. Anderson or Oliver Stone over Martin Scorsese? They're completely different filmakers. God Forbid can there be TWO or more good Black Filmakers at the same time? Just another example of inconcious racism... -
Mar 13, 2000 4:59:37 PM CST
Some people just say stupid things. Spike Lee is one of them.
by superninja
Just because he can't control his mouth doesn't mean he's not a good filmmaker. And being a white person, I can say that many of his films explore a side of America that must of us will never see. He Got Game was a great film. I also liked Summer of Sam, though I didn't think it was brilliant. He's not the only filmmaker to make arrogant remarks -- Oliver Stone's said some pretty stupid things, but he's still capable of making a good movie.
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I was watching an E! biography, about how the bottom fell out of the Blaxploitation market in the 70s. It started off as a viable movement, and once Hollywood got control, it degenerated into camp and all those black actors, writers and directors were out of a job. The fact is, Hollywood does not believe the general audience aka "white america" can handle it unless it's funny. Serious movies with a largely ethnic cast are targeted towards that ethnic group, and not towards the general population. The exception is anything with Cuba Gooding, Jr., Martin Lawrence and Eddie Murphy -- aka, "the Funny Black Man". I would appreciate Hollywood taking more risks with casting.
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Mar 13, 2000 5:27:57 PM CST
This has probably already been said, but if guns were banned, pe
by superninja
It's not a matter of the tool, it's a matter of the hands holding in, and the mind behind that. The biggest thing that stands out in my mind about European attitudes vs American is that we're obsessed about violence, they're obsessed about sex. Which sounds better to you? You can blow someone's head off in a movie, but you can't show male nudity? I think our culture is so FREAKIN' repressed that it's become a part of our culture to "act out". We're told that sex is bad, but violence is cool. And I REALLY, REALLY don't appreciate Clinton targeting the NRA (even though I disagree with a lot of their own political manuvering). He's taking a cheap shot, and it really dissapoints me that some people are too stupid to see that. That's one thing I hate about the far left-- they're always making excuses for people. Instead of blaming the gun manufacturer, why don't you ask the psychopath that pulled the trigger why he did it? I bet it was because his "mommy and daddy didn't love him", and there's his excuse!! "My mommy didn't love me enough, so I'm going to get attention!" Take away the gun, he'll use a knife. Take away the knife, he'll use a stick. Take away the stick, he'll use his fists. HEY, HERE'S AN IDEA! LET'S TALK ABOUT ACTUALLY SOLVING THE PROBLEM BEFORE IT OCCURS! Pure genius that politicians just can't understand...
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One reason why random mass violence has risen is simply because it's so much easier to go someplace and kill a bunch of people. It doesn't require training or talent. Just the right tool. I don't advocate banning guns entirely, but I think SOME weapons should be either illegal or extremely difficult to obtain. People shouldn't gripe about waiting a week (it should be a month-- at least) to get a weapon that has absolutely no other purpose other than killing large numbers of human beings. You don't need these weapons for sport or defense. You need em to kill people. Heston and the NRA are full of shit. They want people to be able to walk into a store and walk out with the most efficient killing machine on the market, and bullets that will penetrate bullet proof vests. I don't buy the "We need to be able to overthrow our government if need be" argument, though I can sympathize with people needing to defend themselves from our government (Waco, the Pine Ridge Reservation, Ruby Ridge, The Black Panthers...). Unfortunately, both are essentially fantasies in this day and age. If you want to beat Michael Jordan, you don't challenge him to a game of one on one. And if you want to change the goverment of the United States, you don't use violence. In either circumstance, you got no prayer.
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You proved my point... Why can't you say "I prefer Spike Lee over Steven Speilberg"... He shouldn't be locked into the "black filmaker" status...
Anyway MALCOM X didn't gloss over the fact that the Nation of islam was involved in the assasination of Malcom, In my opinion the NOI didn't look to good by the end of the movie. But did you know that the FBI is documented (yes this is a fact research it) to have forged death threats from the NOI and sent them to Malcom X and vice versa... so there was other forces in play. (Isn't it funny that Malcom was killed just weeks after he met with fellow muslim OPEC leaders in the Mid East about a possible oil embargo imposed on the U.S. until blacks were given equal rights? betcha didn't know that either).
Where was the uproar when Mississippi Burning was released...That piece of fantasy crap tried to make us believe that the FBI , J Edgar Hoover's FBI, single handedly caught the killers of the Burmingham 3 when in reality ordinary citizens risked thier lives to find the killers and fight for equal rights... sorry about the rant... -
MOSDEF is right on about how the NOI is presented in the film. I'm not sure how someone could claim that they aren't implicated. The fictional character of Baines, a dead ringer for the real NOI minister James 3X Shabazz, seems to be a comibination of several prominent members of the NOI, including Shabazz, John Ali, and Louis Farrakhan. In the film, Baines' son comes to Malcolm to confess that he's been assigned to rig Malcolm's car to explode. The implication is that Baines is behind it. There are plenty of reasons for Lee not including a scene in which Muhammad, Shabazz, Farrakhan and others discuss the plot with the assasins. It's bad drama for one. Two, doing so could get Lee killed and sued (Farrakhan is alive and well). Third, Lee is clearly leaving the door open for the involvment of higher powers, which is not conspiracy theroy non-sense. The FBI had many highly-paid infiltraitors in the NOI (and every other civil rights orginization), who were not only gathering information, but trying to influence the direction of the orginization. They were enganged in a COINTELPRO campaign to split Malcolm from the NOI, which worked like clockwork, then blew up in their face when Malcolm decided to form new orginizations dedicated not only to uniting African-Americans, but uniting them with the non-white nations of the world against white supremacy in the U.S. and the world-wide. The very notion of it must have made J. Edgar pee his skirt (cross dressing is the least deplorable thing he ever did). Government involvment can't be ruled out. Lee is hinting at a lot of things in the film, which makes more interesting drama at the very least. Still, regardless of what involvement the government had, no one can deny the NOI's involvement. And the film doesn't.
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Your posts proves that you are a naive IDIOT! I'm black and I go through black issues every day...why can't Spike put those on film? And please, Mr Tarantino is a good filmaker but I have a problem with his obsession with the "N" word... Are you actually trying to say that EVERY movie should have black characters that are interchangeable and don't deal with issues unique to blacks? That's completely idiotic.
Also, watch Mo' Better Blues (1990) That movie isn't about race at all.
Sorry El Mariachi but Blacks in America still have a lot of expieriences unique to us, if you want to forget that take your ass to Disneyland and stay there.
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