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SHOWEST: Harry sees THE LORD OF THE RINGS Stuff!!! Aaaaaagh... Cooooooooooooool!!!

Hey folks, Harry here. Just got back from the NEW LINE function and saw the first footage seen outside of NEW ZEALAND and NEW LINE...

It was about 2 and a half minutes long.

The center of the screen bursts out with red turmoiling fire as a rectangle divides the screen... deep red flames within. Elvish lettering forms... It's the 'ring writing'. An announcer's voice booms something to the effect of... "IT IS THE MOST WIDELY READ BOOK OF THE 20th CENTURY" and how it has never been brought to life on screen. (and most Tolkein fans would probably agree to that statement)

Glimpses of the 45 minute sell-video that Peter Jackson prepared to sell the series to NEW LINE appear. Gollum moving... sad and depressing. A pitiful creation with soultorn eyes. It is my feeling that this is the greatest cg character look I have ever seen. And I have said that before.

You see row after row after row of ORC armor... like I said before.. it screams Frank Frazetta... primal evil.

Then we begin seeing footage of characters as they appear in the film.

Gandalf aka Ian McKellen. Long greyish white beard, husky eyebrows... his nose... it is the nose of Gandalf, not McKellen... or at least I think so. Memories of a once seen 2 second flash. The pale bluish grey wizard hat... a glimpse of his gnarled staff off to one side. And those piercing eyes of Ian's.

Then... film footage of MASSIVE, much more finished than previously seen by me footage. A roaming army of a few hundred thousand orcs marching through Mordor. This is the shit your pants scene.

We see Legolas fighting atop the battlements, repelling attacking orcs... and I giggled as I knew somewhere... a mere camera pan away was Gimli hacking away.

We see the Cave Troll cg tests... gnards and all. We see the Ring Wraiths pursuing in the forest. The movement is not merely hooded things on horseback... there seemed to be a bit of etheral surreality to them.

We see Aragorn with that ol broken sword of his. We see the Fellowship darting about an amazing landscape, as if being pursued.

The music was from THE MESSENGER.

Folks, the film footage is lovely. The audienced roared it's approval. And...




Folks... this stuff is AMAZING! I talked with New Line about getting this stuff out there for you guys to see. Because there is no way in hell you'll be crapping on this stuff... it's exactly the right feel, look and tone.

It looks like they are going to be editing something together to break on the official LORD OF THE RINGS site. I didn't get a sense of when, but it seemed to be something they were wanting to work on.

After it was over, Moriarty let loose with a yelp of approval.

Me... it was time to change me undies.

BTW... Sean Astin looks great as Sam! Oh oh oh... the shot of Frodo deflecting a blade with Sting! Ehehehehehe... Fun fun fun!!!

I'm sure Moriarty is working on a much more calm and realized descriptive piece than me. But then, he was taking notes to help his failing memory. Come to think of it. I have a failed memory as well.

Till later...

Harry out.

Readers Talkback
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  • March 7, 2000, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Lucky bastard!!

    by Dennis Sorensen


  • March 7, 2000, 6:21 p.m. CST

    who cares

    by directorscut

    i don't

  • March 7, 2000, 6:23 p.m. CST


    by YoungIchabod

    Damn this sounds awesome. Work for us, Harry! Get us something! Let us see the light!!!! Okay...calm now. What I want to know is if Harry saw any hobbits in the clip. I'm really curious as to how they work out on screen. But who cares, LotR rocks!!!!

  • March 7, 2000, 6:27 p.m. CST

    Harry, You are the luckiest...

    by Nazg

    person in the entire world right now who is not directly affiliated with those movies! I wanna see what you've seen!!!...

  • March 7, 2000, 6:39 p.m. CST

    It sounds cool, not an easy thing to do.

    by Roborob

    Fantasy unlike Science Fiction is very difficult to potray in a live action visual medium in fact I can think of only one success The BBC's version of The cronicals of Narnia. There are probably others, I missed the recent versions of Gulliver's Travels and Merlin so I cannot say if they were good or bad, but from other reviewers I can assume they were quite good. If Peter Jackson does produce a hit then it will be a fabulous achievement, the first in the modern era. That is after Ray Harryhausen's versions of The Sinbad tales and Greek Myths.

  • March 7, 2000, 6:49 p.m. CST


    by Beorn

    color me excited

  • March 7, 2000, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Stop it Harry.

    by danhelm

    This movie sounds very cool. But the way you're hyping it, everyone will be dissapointed. Even if it were directed by Jesus Himself (with some help from Orsen Welles) , it would dissapoint at least SOMEONE who acted like this movie really is the Second Coming or something. My cheap two cents.

  • March 7, 2000, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Harry - I think you need an antibiotic

    by Khun Dave looks like Pseudomonas. Great news on the two and a half minute short. I cannot wait for the movie to come out. Legolas and Gimli fighting. Sounds like the Contest to me!!!...Have fun in Vegas guys.

  • March 7, 2000, 7 p.m. CST

    I want to see this right now, dammit...

    by Cassius the Evil

    Christmas next year? Fuck!!! There's no way I can survive until then...

  • March 7, 2000, 7:01 p.m. CST

    Can't bleeding wait

    by 7

    Could this be the second coming that TPM did not bring?

  • March 7, 2000, 7:02 p.m. CST

    oh my god.

    by BlueHarlequin

  • March 7, 2000, 7:11 p.m. CST

    "Listen, I said to build Stonehenge at 12 feet, not 12 inches!"

    by Uncapie

    "Maybe we could get some dwarfs to dance around it."

  • March 7, 2000, 7:30 p.m. CST

    Chicks In Chain Mail

    by SpoilerMan

    This LOTR sounds like one big homoerotic fantasy of an all-male world. Miranda Otto and Liv Tyler is the best they could do? Cate Blanchett is so flat-chested she might as well be a guy...hell, John Rhys-Davies has a better chest! If only they'd cast that goddess, ANGELINA JOLIE, then we would have a real man's movie! Who's ass am I supposed to watch during this movie---Orlando Bloom's? I DON"T THINK SO! There had better be some half-naked elf maidens in this thing or it will bite big time.

  • March 7, 2000, 7:53 p.m. CST


    by Eriol

    ahhhhhh!!! I want it I want it I want it!!!!!

  • March 7, 2000, 8:09 p.m. CST

    Only in my dreams

    by Morphine

    Ever since my mother read the WHOLE trilogy to me when I was a little kid, then when I read it myself, I have dreamt of seeing those awesome characters come to life apart from my imagination. I cannot wait for those movies!

  • March 7, 2000, 8:22 p.m. CST

    This is why The Lord Of The Rings will be the greatest film tril

    by Nordling

    "And all the host laughed and wept, and in the midst of their merriment and tears the clear voice of the minstrel rose like silver and gold, and all men were hushed. And he sang to them, now in the Elven-tongue, now in the speech of the West, until their hearts, wounded with sweet words, overflowed, AND THEIR JOY WAS LIKE SWORDS, and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness." (I put that line in caps because it's one of my personal favorites.) I've read LOTR religiously for 20 years, every year. Know this, naysayers - I WILL find you. And you will regret you were ever born. This I curse - your lives will be ordinary. Forever.

  • March 7, 2000, 8:49 p.m. CST

    We, the Undead, are weeping...

    by MovieCrypt

    ... and although we will live forever, waiting until Christmas 2001 will be an eternity. We truly hate you, right now, Harry... couldn't you have sneaked in a camcorder or something? Geez, man! Give up a press pack or something!

  • March 7, 2000, 8:52 p.m. CST

    Aaarrrghhhhhh..I want to see it, I want to see it, I WANT TO SEE

    by ectelion

    ...sorry, but I only want to say: I want to see it,I want to see it,I want to see it,I want to see it,I want to see it,I want to see it,I want to see it,I want to see it,I want to see it,I want to see it, ...

  • March 7, 2000, 8:52 p.m. CST

    Each one a year apart?

    by The Kid

    I guess they changed the schedule. But man, when we're watching Gimli hacking up Orcs at Helm's Deep....I hear "Director's Cut!"

  • March 7, 2000, 9:11 p.m. CST

    My heart just stopped.

    by LSHB

    ..............ah, there it goes. This is so exciting I can't stand it. Can't. Stand. It. Now we just need a bootleg of said footage to download...

  • March 7, 2000, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Harry, Any News On The Nine Hour Uncut LOTR Version?

    by SamLowry

    When Peter Jackson first scored this dream-dream-dream-of-dreams directing gig, he said (I think on your site, Harry) that while each movie would stand alone as a two hour or so chapter, he would be shooting enough footage so that once they were all done and released he could cut all three together into a seamless, nine hour plus epic, with additional scenes of characters dropped from the theatrical versions included, and far gorier battle scenes. Harry, do you know if Peter Jackson is still shooting the trilogy this way? So he can one day, in 2004, release unto the world a nine hour DVD of LOTR? Anybody else know more about this? INFORM!!!!!

  • March 7, 2000, 9:34 p.m. CST

    So,this was publicity,or...

    by user id indeed!

    I'm lost.Waitaminute,I'll go read it more carefully.Doo deed doo...I'm just a readin'....lalala....hey,a frito.Under my chair!What luck.Dum de dum.Oh,ok.This was what they were showing New Line.OIC,said me.To thee.Dum dee,orcs.Lots of em!Hmm...yes,that would make me s#!+ my pants.Of course,I s#!+ my pants when I see Tim Roth's performance in Four Rooms.The guy's funny!Hee hee...Dooby dooby dooo...hmm hmmm...hey,whatever happened to the Bud Ice Penguin?He was my hero.Then he left us,and now my hero is the sock puppet.I giggle with glee when I hear him say"Listen,I am a professional happy puppet thing!"Hee hee...oh,the Rings thing.I read the book last month.It was good,but a wee bit hard to follow.I mean!OOPS,please don't kill me,LOTR philes.Hey,sounds neat.Get us a download,will ya,Harry,ol buddy?This has been a Casual Moment with User ID Indeed!Hey,more fritos!!!

  • March 7, 2000, 9:39 p.m. CST

    I'm very excited at the prospect of Fantasy becoming a sellable

    by Wungolioth

    I'm hoping these movies do well, becuase I want other fantasy titles to be made, Peirs Anthony's Xanth novels; Terry Brooks' Shannara Series, Magic Kingdom For Sale Series and the newer Knight of The Word Series, just to name a few... Wungolioth the Wanderer

  • March 7, 2000, 9:42 p.m. CST

    This Is Why I LOVE This Site

    by Kraven

    Thanks Harry, Moriarty. God, you are two lucky, lucky buggers.

  • March 7, 2000, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Nassssty Hobbitses named Harry annd Moriarty Baggins...

    by Abu Ben-Shalom

    We hates them forever for seeing previews of what we cannot yet see. Yesss Preciousss! We hates them, We hates them, AIIIII!

  • March 7, 2000, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Cate Blanchett is NOT flatchested!

    by METHOS

    She happens to be one of the most beautiful and talented actors in the world. I hope she tracks you down, fuckhead!

  • March 7, 2000, 10:11 p.m. CST

    2001 nooooo.. its too far!!!!

    by Yodel'n Zeak

    There are two movies in production I will not diss. This and X-men, they will both be great. But 2001.. and then we find out its not 6 months apart for each.. but a whole year!?! damn it.

  • March 7, 2000, 11:01 p.m. CST

    Could just be a side effect

    by The Justhustier

    One of the side effects of elegra is "oily discharge". Maybe Harry should see his doctor about his prescription.

  • March 7, 2000, 11:19 p.m. CST


    by danhelm

    The response from this site's audience is amazing. But I wonder about you people who literally can't wait for this movie (remember those poor fools who waited for months outside of theaters to see TPM?). Oh well, VISIT THIS SITE: It fits a lot of fantasty-types to a T.

  • March 7, 2000, 11:34 p.m. CST


    by poodle

    you suck. You realize, right, how INSANELY unfair it is that you get to see this shit, right? Right? Sure you do. Keep licking that nose candy, cowboy.

  • March 7, 2000, 11:42 p.m. CST


    by skeezix

    Stop talking about it and getting us all hot and bothered, and gets some spies to get us some damn footage! Come on. You're describing stuff I've only dreamed about seeing since I've read these books for the first time (and the second and the third, and who the hell knows how many times, I lost count). Just the shot of Legolas would hold me for awhile. For film geeks everywhere, show me an orc, ANYTHING!

  • March 7, 2000, 11:47 p.m. CST

    The ONLY problem I forsee...

    by Kuenjato

    ...Is the glut of copycat movies that will spring up like horseflies on shit after these movies gross $50-100 million apiece. Someone mentioned Terry Brooks. Heaven help us if his hack work is shown the green light. What I truly fear, though, is that a movie will be made of that god-awful tripe The Sword of Truth...

  • March 8, 2000, 12:15 a.m. CST

    Ladies and Gentlemen...

    by Ambrose Chappell

    ...last week's drought of cool news has passed. Long live Harry and Moriarty!

  • March 8, 2000, 12:23 a.m. CST

    The Singing Mice Again.

    by Astro Pud

    When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. And that one sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Son, the strongest castle in all of England.

  • March 8, 2000, 1:14 a.m. CST


    by Toby O. Notobe

    Nah, the Brunching Shuttlecocks are pros. It's a comedy site updated everyday. My favorite section is the ratings where normal, everyday objects get grades from A thru F. Check out As for the footage - cool, but there's still a long, long way to go before the movie comes out so let's try and be calm, people. Are there any reports of elvish-speaking dorks camping out in front of theaters yet?

  • March 8, 2000, 1:16 a.m. CST

    This is why I love your sight !!!

    by Jedi 7

    Dear Harry, the force is strong with you. I am an avid fan of the beloved Star Wars Saga but I am anxious as hell to see one of my favorite animated movies come to life as a motion picture.I can't wait for more info on the LOTR. Thank you for your description and I will be looking forward to this great movie.Meanwhile I an contemplating on whether or not to name my new lightsabor sting! Take care and keep it comming Harry you are the greatest.

  • March 8, 2000, 1:25 a.m. CST


    by Withnail

    "But mother..." "Father, I'm father" "But Father, I don't want any of that, I'd rather..." "RATHER WHAT?" "I'd rather just...sing...The road goes ever on and on..." Very little about this movie has me shaking my head. Apart from Harry and Moriarty being Jammy bastards. Have faith in the big guy, he will smuggle something to us soon. If you download it, it will come.

  • March 8, 2000, 3:09 a.m. CST

    You guys are missing the best ones...

    by Toby O. Notobe

    "Someday son, all this will be yours" - "What, the curtains?"....(later)..."What's wrong with the princess? She has huge tracts of land!" - "But I don't want any land." - "You idiot, we living in a fucking swamp, we need all the land we can get!"

  • March 8, 2000, 3:44 a.m. CST

    And now for something completely different

    by Cyberczar

    "Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the system. Come See The Violence Inherent In The System! Help, Help, I'm being repressed! You Saw him repressing me, didn't you" "Bloody Peasant" Btw, what on earth does this have to do with LOTR anyway -Sir Robin, the not-so brave as Sir Lancelot, who had personally wet himself at the battle of Badun Hill

  • March 8, 2000, 3:58 a.m. CST

    Get the bloody title right, Harry!

    by Oosters

    The first part is called THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, not Fellowship of the Rings. Sorry to be pedantic, but hey, aren't we all supposed to be cybergeeks?

  • March 8, 2000, 4:08 a.m. CST

    I'm excited about this but...

    by Darth Bond

    ...the most widely read book of the 20th century is probably the bible. And if you want to see some excellent CG characters go to, where you'll find some amazing stuff sony is working on for the CG movie version of the popular videogame (fuck Pixar, THIS will rock!) CYL.

  • March 8, 2000, 6:35 a.m. CST


    by azrael79

    somebody post it on the net fuck damnit!!! need this eye-candy now!

  • March 8, 2000, 6:35 a.m. CST

    New Zealand-made, Baby!!

    by ol' painless

    Har Har, I kept telling you guys that if it' being shot in New Zealand, by a New Zealander, then we have the ingredients for the best trilogy of the entire decade!! Harry, you are one lucky sod. I would sell my mother to see this footage! ol' painless is waitin' . . .

  • March 8, 2000, 6:43 a.m. CST

    What's up with those release dates?

    by bclenney

    Crap, they keep pushing back the release dates, and they were supposed to be released 6 months apart, not 1 year apart! Arrrrghhhhhhhhhhh!

  • March 8, 2000, 7:15 a.m. CST

    LOTR is just a cheep rip-off of Robert Jordans brilliant masterp

    by McKenzieFrenzy

    Bla bla bla. Hee hee, just thought i'd place a few proverbial bees in the bonnet.

  • March 8, 2000, 7:53 a.m. CST

    Ah Harry, I know I've...

    by Duke

    dissed you of late (especially when you were too busy for Sundance--bada bing bada boom), but it's the reports like this that restore my faith in the fact that you are just a joyous child in a bloated body. I know people will get their hopes up waaaaaay too high after reading you, but they have to take the report in the proper context: You LOVE cool stuff! BTW this sounds like a wonderful treatment of an incredible trilogy that has played a major role in the lives of many adolescent (and adult) geeks.

  • March 8, 2000, 8:46 a.m. CST

    by Evil Dr Cheese

    Cool site you have here, check this site out for the latest and greatest news and reviews:

  • March 8, 2000, 8:48 a.m. CST

    OTOH, consider this.

    by Darth Vader

    Why I'm not excited, why I won't be seeing LOTR, and why you should follow my example (or, LOTR: an allegory of hatred by DMFC) Comment: I'm sure this will be met with cheerful blubbering and shouts for the footage. And why not? I believe that Germany in 1937 believed hitler was the answer to their problems. What am I talking about you ask? Well, before I go on, I want to outline something. Many people claim that associations with color are based in a shared human experience rather than a cultural background. dark is the color of night, thus black is the color of evil and death. yet you need look no further than japan to see that this isn't true. Funerals are attended by people all in white, which is considered the color of death. The european conception of the color black is based mainly on racism, which brings me to my main point. EVER WONDER WHY TOLKIEN DENIED THAT LOTR WAS A LOTR ALLEGORY? Because it wasn't. It is supposed to be about creating the perfect aryan race. Think about it. ALL WHITE HEROES, every one of them, invade a land described as totally dark to defeat a villain described only as having black skin. Gee, am I the only one paying attention? It seems like the books advocate some sort of ethnic cleansing which I, unlike the rest of you apparently, would not like to support. OH WAIT, you say...what about all of the other "races" tolkien writes about? Gee, like elves...the image of aryan perfection? give it up. This LOTR will be considered the Birth of the Nation of this century years from now, and the progressively minded of you should already be planning to avoid it. I don't care if you like a shitty writer like tolkien, who exists somewhere between john grisham and dung, but please stop preaching the racist messages that these books promote.

  • March 8, 2000, 9:13 a.m. CST

    Damn you, Harry! You've just thrown a grenade!

    by CaptainRansom

    The Holy Grenade of Antioch!!!!!! Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggggggghhhhhh! I can't wait next century to see that flick. Helm, set a course for the closest star, we are going to attempt a time warp. Maximum warp, engage! Ransom out.

  • March 8, 2000, 9:20 a.m. CST

    Why was I so sure...

    by CaptainRansom

    ...that DMFC's inept interpretation of LotR was still looming????

  • March 8, 2000, 9:25 a.m. CST


    by krosshair

    Christmas 2003 for the final installment?! That's means there will be approximately three YEARS between the end of principal photography and the release. Isn't that a little excessive? It smacks of New Line trying to squeeze every last dollar out of their new cash cow while we fans grow old awaiting the last movie. That blows.

  • This film sounds so damn cool. I had expected someone to start messing it up by now but luckily noone has. All those complaining about it will obviously never be happy, no matter how promising the film seems they will whine and stamp their feet. I do not want to hear from these people. As for Darth Vader... we have all heard this stuff, it is not new and it is obviously a straight rip off of something the notorious DMFC said. Think what you like about Tolkien but don't make comments that are irrelevent to the movies.

  • March 8, 2000, 9:50 a.m. CST

    RAGE, learn the meaning of the word "rip-off".

    by Darth Vader

    Or else learn to read English. The body of the post contains proper attribution to DMFC. It's not a "rip-off", you moron, it's a repost. Oh, did I mention that you're an idiot? Thanks for sharing.

  • March 8, 2000, 9:56 a.m. CST

    Knights of the Holy Gollum

    by Cugel

    "But how do you know she is a weetch?" "She turned me into a newt!!" (Dead silence.) " ... I got better."

  • March 8, 2000, 10:23 a.m. CST


    by shut-up!

    Shut up Darth. We have read your philosophical bullshit before. Don't be such a pessimistic dork; it's just a cool movie.. damn.

  • March 8, 2000, 10:41 a.m. CST

    What about the elven CGI manipped faces?

    by Iaidoka

    Harry please! Everyone seems to have forgotten that there was discussion of using CGI to enhance the facial features of the actors playing elves. You say Legalos was featured in the footage? Could you see his face? Was it modified? Could you tell? Was it awful? Was it great? Arrrrrggggg. Fill us in PPPPLLLLLEEEEEEAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • March 8, 2000, 10:42 a.m. CST


    by not_a_jedi_yet

    Hey Darth Vader--here's an allegory for you: your inane post is an allegory for the complete waste that "Talkback" has become. Geez, I have never heard such utter claptrap in my life. LOTR akin to "Birth of a Nation?" You obviously have no clue, son. I get so sick of those who claim "light/dark" battles hide a racist intent. Never mind that these symbols for good and evil have been used by COUNTLESS cultures representing ENDLESS people of color since the history of time itself. It stems back to the difference between night and day, not the difference between caucasians and non-caucasians. In ancient cultures, nighttime was the dominion of evil and daytime was the dominion of good. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SKIN COLOR. Get a life!

  • March 8, 2000, 11:22 a.m. CST

    Yawn the Sequel

    by Kraven

    Actually, "Darth Vader" was offered a life some years ago, but he never opened it because he couldn't decide what color it was. Darth, please go away and play with your friend, if you have one.

  • March 8, 2000, 11:23 a.m. CST

    Lord of the Rings

    by Voice of Reason

    Here we go with the bickering and complaining again over what...a movie! Tolkien would likely be proud of this achievement to come, as everything that has been produced in his name is good (even those cheaply done animated versions of the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings/Return of the King), but I digress.The world's top experts on Tolkien are helping with the project so how can they go wrong? If you have already looked at it as being poor or dumb than you already have sealed its fate before it even comes out. Humans can be sooooo judgemental and base their observations on not even seeing what they speak about. Isn't it rather hard to be opinionated about something if one has not even experienced it yet? The wise elves of Lothlorien would likely think so (if they were real that is).

  • March 8, 2000, 11:33 a.m. CST

    CAMALOT !!!

    by Syd Mead

    It's ONLY model...Wow Harry, two freakin' minutes of some of the most anticipated film in a decades. Did you pre-moisten your eyes so you did'nt blink ?!? Ya, know 98% of most geeks will have opening day circled on the calender. So next time bring the camera...and snap..snap...say no MORE ! --Syd

  • March 8, 2000, 11:38 a.m. CST

    If cut-n-paste is the mark of true genius --(wait a minute, wher

    by uh_Clem

    Then I don't suppose, morGoth, you could be convinced to re-post your earlier (and obv. pre-composed in anticipation of such silliness) and quite fine little abstract addressing the non-issue that this imagination-impaired Darth, um, "Vader" (sigh) so tediously exhumed. (helluva sentence, sorry) Really, if the lazy bastard's gonna try to pull a DMFC hijacking, he could've at least, if not come up with an original "hot button," put some new effort into old gags. *** But fuck that, here's the real issue irking me. Nowhere --fansites, moviesites, that E!site, the teaser H and M got to see (and has me all tingly) -- is there any mention of Gimli footage, or John Rhys-Davies on set. Everyone else seems to have gotten a mention, somewhere, even the Gimli "little person" double. He's been in NZ for a while now, right? Has he had no scenes with lines shot yet? Has he gotten to know Messr. Bloom at all, and how's their chemistry? Is it that much harder to dwarf Mr. R-D up than it is to hobbitize the others? Look all over the net, there's a conspicuous absence, I tell ya... *** Climactic scene as Aragorn claims his throne at the end of ROTK: [overheard] "Look, it's the King." "How d'you know it's the King?" "He hasn't got shit all over 'im."

  • March 8, 2000, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Racist intentions in LOTR?

    by Voice of Reason

    Some people OVER analyze things. Racist? Tolkien lived in South Africa whilst he wrote the novels we all love, and he was from England. He wrote these stories to fill the void in Anglo-Saxon/English folklore and mythology (he was a Celtic and Anglo-Saxon scholar as i am)and nothing more. People get lost, misguided, and wish to project their world-views and perceptions into whatever media they come across (books, movies, etc. Tagging those forms of entertainment into propaganda machines and such (sshheeeesshhh)to push their agendas is sick. Have you ever really created something purely out of imagination with no secret meanings behind them? It can be done. My scripts, books and art-work are just that. When you start to use your art as a means to convey more that aesthetics, you complicate the project with garbage and usually ruin the vision. The vision CAN get ruined by Directors, screening groups, editors, etc, but the foundations are still there for those who are perceptive to notice.

  • March 8, 2000, 11:45 a.m. CST

    Darth Response

    by Maedhros

    I always find it puzzling when intelligent people take the time to argue the presence of racism, sexism etc. in literature/film that are obviously not meant to be a model for present day social values. While we can look at Tolkien's works as having historical allusions we are more likely to find an adequate explanation if we examine his works as a mythology - after all, Tolkien was principally a mythologist and linguist. The primary background for Middle Earth are Northern European mythologies. These mythologies predate the modern industrialized era of rapid global transit and cultural migration. So for one, the cultures they represent (in this case elves, hobbits, and several fairly Aryan tribes of men) are ethnocentric and suspicious of those "not like them". We see this in the initial reception the various characters get when they arrive in a new area - Bree, Lothlorien, Rohan, etc. Also ethnic groups that are seldom encountered by the average Middle Earth denizen in area in which LOTR takes place (elves, hobbits, the "dark skinned" men outside of historical Numenorian control)are characterized by not so much an evil quality, but an exotic strangeness. This causes the central characters to view them with as almost mythical figures, often accompanied by a feeling of awe and ludicrous imagings of the details of their cultures. By the end of the LOTR the numerous peoples of Middle Earth are living in relative unity and harmony - is there a meant to be a message here - undoubtedly somewhat. Tolkien is writing in England during the WWII era, so any degree of political stability and cultural harmony is going to be seen as idyllic in comparison. Next topic, are Elves meant to be exemplars of the perfect Aryan race - possibly. Tolkien's Elves are more derived from the 'alfa' of Norse mythology than any of the faerie or fey folk of the various Brittanic/Celtic myths. As with most mythologies and religions Norse mythos abound with representations of the "perfect man" from the limited perspective of one culture. In my opinion however, the cultural values of the 'alfa' don't seem to jibe with archaic Scandanavian social mores. Much as the Tolkien elves are venerated rather than emulated. Lastly, on the subject of black as portrayed as evil. In western myths black - or more aptly darkness - is often associated with evil. There is a deep seated instinctive fear of night in humans - the cold and hindrance to vision that it brings, and the predatory creatures that it unleashed apon our pre-modern ancestors. This theme persists in African myth as well. Take for insatance the West African Dogon myth of the Nommo (godling) called Yurugu, who is described as an evil being of night and darkness. So Darth - I suggest next time you want to villify Tolkien - read some Joseph Campbell to get some perspective first. Hope I have been helpful. ;)

  • March 8, 2000, 11:59 a.m. CST

    Maedhros said better than I could!

    by Voice of Reason

    I should call my pseudonym, 'Voices of Reason.' Darth, did you know that the basis for that name comes from Indo-European *darthos which means 'Dark'? Lucas knew what he was doing when he chose such a title for Vader (which means 'Father' from Germanic), Maul and Sidious. 'Sith' in Star Wars comes from the Celtic Gaelic word 'Si' or 'Sith' (pronounced 'shee') and means 'peace' or 'faerie'? Strange what a little bit tad of insight does to one when you delve into the art of the project...

  • March 8, 2000, 12:15 p.m. CST

    I would say Oh my G-d, but even he is not as lucky as Harry!

    by brokentusk

    Harry, I hope you know that you are the number one person on my list of targets (including all the people in the cinema with you, the people at that dinner in New Zealand where they showed the LOTR footage and that guy who wrote an article about being on the LOTR set). You are a SO lucky. I would kill to see some of that footage, in fact I WILL kill to see it... I cannot wait to see this movie. Here's a little question... you know on the official site (LOTR) there is that live on set tour thingy for Real Player? I was wondering... IS THEIR SUPPOSED TO BE A PICTURE WITH THAT... OR JUST SOUND? Please someone let me know, cause I can't take much more than this...

  • March 8, 2000, 12:54 p.m. CST

    Ugh, Harry...MUST you keep doing this to us?

    by Drath

    You son of snork! You got to see footage and then lay it on us that WE won't get to see shit until Christmas of NEXT YEAR?!! How the f*$@%ng f*#@ son of a f$@#%^#$%$, sh!%fest f*@*, I cannot believe this!!!! And to top it off, there's nothing but this anal retentive crap about racism in LOTR on the Talk Backs again. Oy, the agony.

  • March 8, 2000, 1:01 p.m. CST

    No jar jars in these movies

    by RipReaver

    There wil be no jar jars or cheese one liners or comedy "relief" bullshit in these movies im sure...(not to say there wont be any amusing parts or characters) i think any footage seen will accurately depict the mood of these movies. jacksons cool man, there will be no idiotic jar jars in this trilogy. hail the lord of the rings. they will rock. nuff said. these will be epic, awesome, serious kickass, not movies made to "cater" to kiddies or the sheep.

  • ...and I am quite sure that I will come out of the theater frail and bedazzled myself (sorry, been listening to too much Pumpkins again). I just don't think, however, that I will love this as much as Star Wars. It may well be a better series of films, and I am half convinced that this will be the case, but alas, I am no longer a kid. I was a kid when I saw Star Wars, and a kid I remain upon watching it to this day. Phantom Menace I loved, but I think the reason so many of us found flaws in it (myself included) was that we are no longer kids. We no longer imagine, we analyze. We murder to dissect, so spoke the poet, as we often murder the movies we would love by over-analyzing them. Does this mean I'll stop? HELLLLLLL NO. I like analyzing, its why we're all here, and it has benefits that I am sure none of us would reject now that we have them. Still, what I hope for from LOTR isn't story or acting or CGI or any of this. I merely hope to AWE. To be a little kid watching a bunch of cool stuff on the screen, eating enormous amounts of Twizzlers and Raisinets while furiously fighting with my bladder, overwhelmed by Dr. Pepper, so that I won't miss a thing. Maybe this movie will do it for me and for all of you as well. I just hope so.

  • March 8, 2000, 1:24 p.m. CST

    You need to find something else to bitch about.

    by DeathByTalkback

    You are really reaching and do you really think anyone here wants to hear that shit? Go to some site dedicated to "race" issues and vent. Most of the people here really like the movies being talked about and I count Tolkien as one of my favorite authors. Not so much for his evident talent but, for the world he created which I spent many days visiting. An author can't be that bad if he has made so many people (all around the world, white and black) happy with his books. Maybe you just don't like how popular it is. Plenty of bitter people like you in the world I 'm sure you can find to relate to.

  • March 8, 2000, 1:30 p.m. CST

    "I want to see the lord of the rings footage gandalf, gandalf-l

    by Dragonfire

    Please get this on the sight or get a link or something. I have to see this or I'll die before 2001

  • March 8, 2000, 1:33 p.m. CST

    DeLuca, a crueler tease than Harry

    by uh_Clem

    Godammit. According to, in an e-mail DeLuca told some fan that the 2.2 min ShoWest LOTR teaser's not to be released, theater, online, anywhere, for the general public. It was just an industry howz-it-made thing, or something to that effect. Harry, Moriarty, that means what you got to see was THAT MUCH RARER you fortunate, beautiful bastards. I'm now gonna let loose a barrage of loud, real-world four- and ten-letter words.

  • March 8, 2000, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Re:Can't bleeding wait

    by Beorn

    Do not set this movie up to the the "second coming." Those who did it with TPM only left the theatre disappointed and downright bitter. This will a damn cool and entertaining set of movies, but to expect anything more is only setting yourself up for disappointment.

  • March 8, 2000, 1:38 p.m. CST

    Cate Blanchett is Hot...

    by Barron34

    Cate Blanchett is hot, and if you don't think so, you are probably gay...check her out in "Pushing Tin" to get a clear view of her hotness (as well as some nice shots of Angelina Jolie, who is, of course, very hot)...***Regarding this nonsense that LOTR is racist: please, do not be COLOSSALLY STUPID. It is a fairy tale, based in Norhtern European culture. Just because a work of fiction has no non-white heroes does not make it racist. And, the concept of the color 'black' being a symbol of evil is an ancient one in Western Culture. It existed in Northern Europe long (VERY long) before any Northern European had EVER seen an African. The idea that it is based in race is, again, stupid, not to mention ignorant of the history of the concept. ***Lastly, Samir Duran, if you think this site is stupid or a waste of time, fine, don't come here. But don't come here and insult the people who do find some use for the site.***Thanks for the info Harry. Hope the Movie(s) live up to the promise...I'm outta here...Barron

  • March 8, 2000, 1:42 p.m. CST

    2001 was racist.

    by Vegas

    It had nothing but white people, a computer with a white person's voice, and monkeys! It's all about putting down minorities! see how stupid that sounds? You people railing against LOTR on the grounds of racism are a bunch of fucking idiots. You see me bitching about The Seven Samurai because there ain't any Irish in it? Grow the fuck up!

  • March 8, 2000, 1:51 p.m. CST


    by Kreegah!!!

    some of you folks sure are geeky! Wow.

  • March 8, 2000, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Hey, Vegas-

    by Barron34

    Had to post in response to Vegas: He is dead on target about Star Wars and the Phantom Menace. The fact that most of us saw Star Wars as youngsters can make all the difference regarding being impressed in a life-long way by the movies. As children, we are prone to awe and wonderment; as adults, we are conditioned to analyze and be critical. This is a key thing that Star Wars fans should understand: even if Phantom Menace was really good (it certainly wasn't), you still wouldn't have had the same kind of thrilling experience you had when you became a Star Wars fan as a kid. These things are sort of once-in-a-lifetime phenomena. (Still, of course, I wish, as do we all, that Phantom Menace came through for fans, so we could have at least had some nostalgia and fun. Alas.) I think it is unfortunate that kids today don't have their own "Star Wars", that is, a movie that thrills them and stays with them throughout their youth. I haven't seen many candidates for this kind of movie. Maybe we'll all get lucky, and Lord of the Rings will be this kind of movie. At least, I hope, it will be an entertaining series of films that doesn't botch the portrayal of Tolkien's work, but gives a good, exciting portrayal of Middle Earth. Here's hoping.

  • March 8, 2000, 2:40 p.m. CST

    Well said, Baron...!

    by MovieCrypt

    "The Star Wars of the New Generation." Can we get a Huzzah for the Baron? HAZZAH!

  • March 8, 2000, 3:02 p.m. CST

    The next epic fantasy movies should be...

    by SkyW

    Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams. Anyone who's read these knows how completely KICKASS it would be on the big screen. I can picture those hundreds of elves streaking through the woods in their multicolored wooden armor.. weapons in hand.... oh, gah.. hold on, I think I need a towel...

  • March 8, 2000, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Barron, you're one of the good guys.

    by Vegas

    Even though we seem to disagree on the subject of Phantom Menace (really, I LIKED the movie. A lot.), you are dead on about what I want from LOTR. My feelings are good that we (and more importantly, the generation of youngsters that will inevitably be turned more towards film by LOTR) will once again get to see, hear and feel a "once in a lifetime" event with LOTR.

  • March 8, 2000, 4:09 p.m. CST

    Once In A Lifetime

    by Kraven

    Good point, Vegas. Is it just me, or can you feel the THRUM of something in the air? Something that seems like it's just for you, although you know millions of people will feel just the same. A moment of realization, for, just as Star Wars was really like the first western to use real locations, so we have never, ever seen a real fantasy on screen, let alone one with such an overpowering, genuinely epic story. It is as if sound were coming to silent movies, technicolor to replace monochrome or stereo to supercede mono. Yes, there is indeed the whisper, the promise of something wonderful coming, and my belief is that it shall be wonderful, to the chagrin of all those wannabe Cassandras. And so, with bated breath, and all five senses atremble, I sit and wait enthralled, along with those of you with like minds, for the realisation of The Lord Of The Rings.

  • March 8, 2000, 4:11 p.m. CST

    "I cannot read the fiery letters...."

    by Bregalad_

    NOW WE CUT TO THE CHASE: Okay, 1st of all, morGoth and Maedhros, you are both brilliant. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have the ill-conceived spittle of Darth Vader (yeep, I think that's as original a monniker as anything else Lucas stole from previous sources). To you I say, pick up THE TWO TOWERS and read in Book Four, Chapter 4, page 269, "...Then suddenly straight over the rim of their sheltering bank, a man fell, crashing through the slender trees, nearly on top of them. He came to rest in the fern a few feet away, face downward... His brown hand still clutched the hilt of a broken sword. It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace--" Now ponder what Tolkien is saying about the true nature of POLITICS & WAR... two rows of teeth that shred our humanity between them. It is clear what Tolkien meant: Race and cultural differences are used as tools by politicians to legitimize their warlike posturing, and validate their actions. All of us, regardless of race or class, suffer with our lives at the hands of powerful dictators or theocracies. Is that the "racist message" you decry? How dare you be so righteous as to include yourself as the "progressively minded"? Read Maedhros' post once more, and open your listening.

  • March 8, 2000, 4:14 p.m. CST


    by Barron34

    My feelings about The Phantom Menace are mixed. I do not hate it passionately like some people do, but I have major problems with it. My first viewing was heavily negative due to the Binks character. It's not that I object to a humorous character (C3PO in the original films was almost entirely for comic relief, and R2D2 did useful things in the plot, but had a 'cute' aspect). My problem was that the Binks character was WAY over the top, and his dialogue was incomprehensible (not to mention ridiculous). Because Binks was onscreen so often, I spent my first viewing just trying to process what the hell this character was saying and doing (and hating every moment of it). It was a HUGE distraction, and was VERY annoying. As a result of Binks, my first viewing left me feeling badly. ***Other aspects of the movie impressed and pleased me (Darth Maul and the Light Sabre Battle; Coruscant and the Republic Government; Naboo, Amidala and her Guards, Advisors, etctera; the Jedi team of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, especially their introductory combat on the Trade Fed Ship, which was thrilling and gave me much hope for the rest of the film). My enjoyment of these scenes was basically eclipsed by the Binks distraction on my first viewing. On subsequent viewings, I developed sort of an 'immunity' to Binks, and was able to enjoy the rest of the movie more easily. I began to understand his dialogue more, tolerate his over the top nature, and dislike him less as I minimized his impact on the rest of the film. Thus, my initial review was mixed, but, over time, I learned to like the movie better, despite it's more glaring flaws. But, there were other problems with the film other than Binks.***I also was not a fan of Jake Lloyd as Anakin, nor of most scenes and plots involving him (it was not his fault; he was cast to be 'cute' to play to the young kid audience, which Lucas has notoriously done in the past, aka 'Ewoks'). I agree with the fan opinion that a somewhat older and darker Anakin would have been much more fitting to the story, creating foreshadowing for his crossover to the Dark Side (we hope to see this Dark streak in whoever plays Anakin in the next movie. He must be convincing both as a hero, a love interest for Amidala, and as someone who is capable of transforming into a Great Villain. Lloyd was utterly unconvincing as a pre-cursor to this, and, again, the character was cast too young). Lloyd's scenes were played 'cute', and, as a resul, created no dramatic tension whatsoever. This was a major problem. His major scenes were not exciting because I did not believe in the character seriously. The pod race seemed like an overlong and uninspired video game (it could have worked with an older, edgier Anakin that we could care about). The ending fight sequence in the space above Naboo was likewise uninvolving. You have to care about the character to care when he is in danger; an uninspiring character doesn't make us care about his plight. This takes the wind out of these scenes. Anakin would have worked much better if he reminded us of his son, a younger Luke Skywalker. Echoes of Luke would have created a lot of dramatic texture, because it would bring into play our feelings about Luke and the other movies. Seeing Luke in his young father-to-be would have been poignant and sad, connecting us emotionally to Anakin by associating him in our minds with Luke, Vader, and the central conflict of the first films. ***The Gungans were another problem, like Binks, because they were comical. If Lucas had presented us with serious CGI aliens, instead of jokes, we would have cared about them. Like the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi, the Movie would have been MUCH improved if a cute/funny group of aliens were replaced by a realistic/serious group of aliens. In addition to Binks, and the problem with Anakin, the Gungans are another flaw.***Another problem, widely noted, was that the movie was more an FX spectacular, and lacked the human element that the original Movies had. I agree. A big part is what I have already mentioned: Binks and Anakin. They are two major characters that do not work, and we do not care about them. This takes a big piece out of the movie....

  • March 8, 2000, 4:19 p.m. CST

    LOTR and Star Wars

    by LuckyLuke

    Barron, I am definitely excited to see the LOTR movies. However, I feel that kids already have their own Star Wars. It's called Star Wars. LOTR is not going to be a second coming...blah blah. It will be an excellent series of films, though. Comparing the two seems pointless anyways. The LOTR series definitely had an influence on Star Wars, but the ground breaking acheivments of the Star Wars films have helped pave the way for the LOTR movies. Just my two cents. Oh..I loved TPM, too!!

  • March 8, 2000, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Meandering in, meandering out

    by Alessan

    Nice attempt at a pre-emptive strike, morG. Too bad it didn't work, but then, they never do. (Yawn) This whole racism argument is SO last week. ***** I don't care if it takes hypnotic regression, Harry, but we simply must have more details. What you have given us just - won't - do.

  • March 8, 2000, 4:53 p.m. CST

    Fantasy films

    by Jacob Corbin

    I really, really hope that LOTR will not open the floodgates to a wave of shitty fantasy movies...I'd hack away at my retinas with a spoon before I'd look at a millisecond of footage of a Piers Anthony or Anne McCaffrey novel. That said, it would be supremely cool if someone, somewhere, filmed Gene Wolfe's BOOK OF THE NEW SUN in three or four parts.

  • March 8, 2000, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Continued Notes on Phantom Menace by Barron

    by Barron34

    ...I think that if Lucas could have corrected the character problems with Binks and Anakin, he had the makings of a much better movie in regards to the widely mentioned 'human element' that was missing from the movies. Obi-wan and Qui-Gonn were interesting characters at first, but did not develop into their potential. They had good actors for both of them; it would have been nice if they developed the characters beyond 'concerned Jedi master' and 'earnets young Jedi'. The actors could have handled it, and the movie would have been much improved if they had some more personality and some sense of humor (note the difference between 'joke' characters like Binks, who are supposed to be comic relief, and 'serious' characters like Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn. Serious characters are allowed to have senses of humor. Look at the original trinity of Han, Leia, and Luke. They were serious characters played with flair and humor by pretty good actors. OB1 and Qui-Gonn could have been likewise. Instead, they were a bit generic and leaden, due to the script and directing, I might add; the two actors are good actors. They just were limited in their material. But, the characters had potential. *** Natalie Portman is an appealing actress, and I found her Amidala appropriately regal and aloof, her Padme very likable and human. If Lucas plays his cards right, casts a good Anakin, writes a decent script for CHARACTERS THAT INVOLVE US, I think that he can do very well with Portman as a female lead in the next film. In fact, he can make up for many of the deficiencies of Phantom Menace in the next film if he does his homework. We MUST have characters that seem real, that are likeable and heroic (or hateable and compelling, for villains), and have some more personality, humor, and development than in the first film. All the greatest FX in the world (and Phantom Menace's FX were great) won't mean a darn thing if we are not engaged and involved with CHARTACTERS we care about. This aspect was lacking in the first film.***Last criticism: the story. There was not much too it. Why was the Blockade of Naboo important? It was certainly unjust, but it did not seem of critical importance to the rest of the Universe. In the original Movies, the main motivator of the plot was the Death Star, a vast engine of destruction tht threatened the entire darn galaxy. We could have used a better story, with the motivations of the players made more clear. But, the story of the Phantom Menace was minimally adequate for the purpose s of an adventure movie. The story did not take life because of a lack of involvement with characters we care about.***In sum, there was a lot to criticize in Phantom Menace; but, for me, there were good things about the movie. The FX WERE spectacular. Coruscant was amazing. Naboo was intrigueing. And, I WANTED to care about the characters and story, so I was rooting for the movie as I was watching it. Qui-Gonn was noble in his sacrafice, compelling as a powerful Jedi Master who cares about his young charges. But we needed to see MORE. Why was Qui-Gonn a Jedi? Why was he dedicated to justice? Sometimes, it just seemed like it was because it was his job. This is not adequate character motivation for a hero. A Jedi should not be pedestrian. He is not an electrician or a school teacher, just doing his job. He has to be passionate about a cause, and passionate for some reason. We understood Luke's passions and motivations in the first movie. He was young and restless, did not know his own father, wanted to become his own man. I understood that Qui-Gonn was noble, I just did not understand WHY. Why did he choose to be noble. What were his motivations. His character need some depth. Similar things could be said about Obi-Won. He was a dutiful and eager young Jedi, loyal to his Master. Good. But why? Qui-Gonn's death scene, and Obi-Won's reaction to it, was affecting and good,but it would have meant so much more if we knew more about their characters and their motivations and connections. The movie had great FX, great costumes, lots of action and fights. It really needed to tone down the nonsense (Binks and the Gungans), give us an Anakin who was not some unengaging child, and give us characters that we can BELIEVE in. We believed in Luke, Leia, and Han. For the next movie, we need to believe in Amidala, Anakin, and Obi-Won, as well as any other leads, and also have have compelling villains, with a good adventure story, and with clear conflicts that are important and that threaten characters that we care about. Hopefully, Lucas can learn from his mistakes. We know he can make a great movie. Phantom Menace had some good elements that were not optimized, and some bad elements that could have been minimized. Imagine a Phantom Menace with an older, better Anakin, a toned down Binks with less screen time, cool aliens instead of the Gungans, and a little more life in promising characters like Qui-Gonn, Obi-Won, and Padme. It COULD have been a great movie. All those great FX would have meant so much more if we were in a rollicking adventure with better characters. Lucas can do it. He has done it before. I think that this new Trilogy of movies can be salvaged, even turned into something great. And I think the fans who hated the Phantom Menace should snap out of it, cool off, and focus on how the NEXT movie can be improved. If everyone just keeps bitching about how they hated the movie, nothing will be accomplished. But, if fans offered Lucas and his people constructive criticism intended to HELP, not diatribes that are just attempts to vent anger over the Phantom Menace, then maybe Lucas will statr to respond to positive feedback. Lucas will not admit the first movies flaws if the fans are on the attack, and many of them are on the attack. But, if the fans were more philosophical about the Phantom Menace, admitted the strong ppoints (Maul was GREAT, etctera). then maybe LUcas would start to take fan criticisms seriously, and not make similar mistakes for the nest Movie. Then, the bad elements of the first movie can be avoided for the Second movie, better elemnets can be added, and then we will all get a better film, and maybe get excited about Star Wars again.

  • March 8, 2000, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Why Harry must suffer!

    by Isidore

    We have all said how envious we are of dear Harry, and how he is probably creating an unrealistic image in our minds of how this movie will turn out. But, damn it, I want more. OK, on to the trollers. If you are going to troll, at least say something we have read 1000 times before, or hasn't been said in a while. For example, you can say that the LOTR is really just a homoerotic fantasy, and that Tolkein was a fag. I haven't read that in a couple of days. Or better yet, Tolkein was speaking directly to DMFC, telling him to stick a dick in his mouth and shut the fuck up along with the rest of you! (which goes with the homoerotic fantasy theory) Stop taking up space that we could be using to talk ad nauseam about how The Two Towers was refering to ... blah blah blah, in elven! Ok now what was my point here?

  • March 8, 2000, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Phantom Menace

    by Kraven

    Still waiting for a goddamn cab, so here's my five cents on what was wrong with the Phantom Menace. It's the mythology. Ol' George goes on about myth and Josepph Campbell and yada yada yada, but the the fact is, George either doesn't get or doesn't understand the way myth works.You can't use it overtly (just take a look at how lousy Willow was, and that was Campbell incarnate); it's either innate or it's not there. And if you have your main characters as mouthpieces for a fractured and bone-crunchingly obvious mythology, then the plain fact is that those characters will not resonate in any way, shape or form with Human Beings, in particular the human beings watching the movie. A good example of properly used mythic vharacters would be George Steven's Shane, or even Barry Levinson's The Natural; although both are a little Arthurian in nature, you can readily understand the protagonists. The problem with Episodes 2 and 3 would be solved if Georgie Boy hires a couple of writers who understand this, but hey, he's George Lucas - You try trelling him how to make a better movie.

  • March 8, 2000, 8:14 p.m. CST

    This trilogy will rock...

    by Kikstad

    'Nuff said. See you naysayers on line in 2001.

  • March 9, 2000, midnight CST

    You may lose your souls, but please... not at the hands of Georg

    by greenleaf

    Instead of debating whether TPM is an awful mess because it's a fabricated epic with no substance or a gratuitous display of FX pyrotechnics, whether it's unbearable because the characters are either incredibly aloof or just plain annoying, WHY DON'T TURN YOUR AVID GEEKY LITTLE PEEPERS TO BETTER MOVIES? Believe it or not there are some things of worth outside the circles of George Lucas' franchise. Free yourselves from this thrall!! Moments of bliss untainted await as you set foot onto new ground and take a deep breath, unhindered by fear or disgust, with renewed vitality and eagerness. Your senses are reeling as you ponder into the infinite, lying right at the centre of this newfound jewel, which you will treasure with attention. You are ecstatic, overwhelmed, drunken with sudden madness; your eyes and ears grow wise and keen, your arms and limbs and mind live anew, light shines upon you, and darkness covets you. If you do not abide sufferance, then go ahead, fire up the VCR and watch that tired camcorder version of TPM you filmed at the theatre. Ennui is a form of escapism. May you find true happiness.

  • March 9, 2000, 12:34 a.m. CST

    frank frazetta?!

    by morpheus

    Is PJ going against his words of not using heavy metal designs?INtsead of historical ones?between the meters long spears and the Viking gettupsof the horselords, we might be seeing an amalgation of pseudo medieval and grecian designs.We certainly do not need beetle armor to scare us.The naturally hate inducing face and actions of the orcs might be enough.Just as we do not need pointy ears to point out an elf.Their actions alone might tell us they're elves.Or are we that orcish that we are not horrified by the orc's monstrosities.hardened as we are by daily doses of Quake,porn,shoot and kill amok news,serial killers pics......

  • March 9, 2000, 1:09 a.m. CST

    Maplenut with a deviation of pistachio

    by greenleaf

    As pieces and stems seam, or as they don't, unlike the will of belligerent men it seems, lumps and slices of artichoke hearts break to the surface of the deeps. Allegory, much like its brothers and sisters, looks a lot like itselves. People often deny that, but as the tree grows and the snail crawls and whatnot, time passes and returns, here and there, in stilted patterns. Consequently, and moreover, paradoxically, time halts. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower at first, as if she was looking for someone who is not there, or as if he had let her pass and was then going after her, finally. Clumsy as the holler of a baby salamander, sardonical, almost and verily, in simialar fashion, if one sided with the democrats in some respects, or in utter defiance of rural harmonics. Speaking of which, to no avail, alas. External proof-producing, periodical and punctual, is vain, for the contingent of the matter turned up vanishes into smoke after a good meal, apples and oranges. And moss-gathering is the pleasure of the dim, in some sense, and the jeu d'esprit is really apt if one considers all of its seams at a glance, and yet one can wonder at that, and all that is beautiful. That is the heart of the matter, whether you like palm or not, whether you drink your soup or offer it to your dog's neighbours in haste, in consideration of some things that better be left alone, for the content of the generals and the particulars (if such can be contented with such). When things go awry, the nearest is always very far from its goal, evidently, and sometimes this can be frustrating to those who don't matter. Henceforth, I shall call myself only when in need, and if others please me as I've pleased them to be an ass, or something to that effect. When the wariness departs and nothing is left, a strange feeling of emptiness shall win over me, and whith that the void shall be filled anew, and apparently, in all probability, perhaps, if the moon sets early as is its wont in November, I forget sometimes and it's always the sign that winter will recede and the feasts will get both gloomier and richer in flavour, more diffuse and intense, and they shall last until the remainder of the company parts with the first ones that had stayed before the rest had gone somewhere with the late-comers, until the world is changed and all things take new meaning, before noon this morning or else I'll have a toast to someone I know in waking life, maybe two, if the butter sticks to the knife. Have a good moron.

  • March 9, 2000, 1:10 a.m. CST

    pssst. Ingold

    by Jedi 7

    HEY INGOLD, the force works in many strange ways, as a matter of fact I did read the books and if you want to talk about Middle Earth and leave my favorite galaxy known as STAR WARS I am a most willing participant. The deal is when I was taking my film classes at a perticular college which I won't mention because I don't want to give too much away is that I once stated when I was a freshman and getting to know the business that "I know one day that they will make The LOTR trilogy a real movie with real actors in it." It looks like that day will come. And if Harry is right, this movie will not dissapoint. My final thought, what is up with

  • March 9, 2000, 1:15 a.m. CST

    pssst. Ingold

    by Jedi 7

    HEY INGOLD, the force works in many strange ways, as a matter of fact I did read the books and if you want to talk about Middle Earth and leave my favorite galaxy known as STAR WARS I am a most willing participant. The deal is when I was taking my film classes at a perticular college which I won't mention because I don't want to give too much away is that I once stated when I was a freshman and getting to know the business that "I know one day that they will make The LOTR trilogy a real movie with real actors in it." It looks like that day will come. And if Harry is right, this movie will not dissapoint. My final thought, what is up with DARTH VADER. He is giving a bad rep to movie and book fans who are in to this field of art and love it. The person posing as him should take some meditation time....

  • March 9, 2000, 1:32 a.m. CST

    to Samir Duran

    by Jedi 7

    Be mindful of the living force my young padawann and leave this site if you feel it is so sad. As a matter of fact if it is so sad, why on earth do you bother visiting or commenting on the site. You blow like Yodas fart if I may say that about my master.

  • March 9, 2000, 5:36 a.m. CST

    You have to understand

    by Nordling

    I have loved LOTR for going on 20 years. I have cast it so many times in my head - Daniel Day-Lewis as Aragorn! Mel Gibson as Aragorn! Kenneth Branagh as Aragorn! - and replayed many scenes - the Battle of Pelennor Fields, Sam vs. Shelob, Helm's Deep, The Cracks of Doom - that I'm so worried now that because the movies don't adhere to my vision of LOTR that I might not enjoy it. But then I sit back read it again, and it all becomes clear. "The Road goes ever on and on, Out from the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, Let others follow it who can! Let them a journey new begin, But I at last with weary feet, Will turn towards the lighter inn, My evening-rest and sleep to meet." ***Oh, and to those who claimed LOTR was racist, I'd slap your parents for conceiving such a moronic child, but I wouldn't know what pig trough to start looking in.

  • March 9, 2000, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Frank Horrigan -- Dude!

    by DeathByTalkback

    You Rule! You read like a steroid-spiked Bongo doing Bronson after he's been mugged and left for dead.

  • March 9, 2000, 10:29 a.m. CST

    Sweet Jesus do we really have to put up with this shite AGAIN ?.

    by Skyway Moaters

    ....tried to read the whole TB before posting and just couldn't do it. Here's our old pain-in-the- ass, mentally deficient DMFC posting under yet another handle with the same old tired doggeral that garned him so much attention on the last LOTR TB. For the love of Mike folks, let's not respond directly to him this time, and maybe he'll go away(?) (Yeah right, figure the odds. Even this inane little post is enough to fuel his meglomaniacle tendencies.) Anyway... nuff said on this disagreeable subject.****HARRY ! Thank you thank you thank you. Wish I could have seen this stuff too; you wouldn'ta been the only one changing his shorts !!****AND IT'S NOT A ^%@#^@%#@ TRILOGY YOU ^%@#^&@%$#^ BONEHEADS...couldn't let Ingold down now could I ?***morG surely someone already got this, but as I said I could hold my tounge long enough to read the whole talkback....Gimli won the contest by 1 Orc...41 to 40. Namarie Mellyn, and a pox on DMFC and all his pathetic alter egos.{;-0.....ROTK 12/03???!!! AAAAAAAAGH !

  • March 9, 2000, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Yes, Moaters, you do -- and you always will. Eat it.

    by Darth Vader

  • March 9, 2000, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Some Blind Guardian

    by L0ki

    Hi Guys! It coul be really cool if the soundtrack contains some Blind Guardian

  • March 9, 2000, 1:04 p.m. CST

    A modest proposal...from Vegas.

    by Vegas

    How about a non-Celebrity Deathmatch between DMFC and Frank Horrigan? Nobody gets out of the ring until both are dead. Racism and hate are old, fellas. Stop obsessing over your sexual inadequecies and taking it out on people you flat out don't understand, and try being productive in some field or other for a change. Grow the fuck up.

  • March 9, 2000, 2:34 p.m. CST

    I'm last

    by uh_Clem

    Wishful thinking, prob'ly as successful as most of them damn I'm-Firsters. If anyone's still looking, check out TORN for (Vanity Fair's) hobbit pics, plus some of their own spies' spoiler-rich goodness, e.g. PJ's cameo. Much as I'm glad H and M got to see/relate that footage, they gotta get back to work cracking the UNofficial dope. Change the batteries in that damn nanobot or SOMEthing. (oh, crap. pun alert. crack. dope. guhuh.) (just get back to work, idiot.) (yessir.)

  • March 9, 2000, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Alright DMFC.....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ..or whatever handle you are presently posting with, I'll adress you direcectly (against my better judgement): FUCK YOU, and the horse you rode in on. Fuck your mother, father, siblings, and any anyone else unfortunate enough to be associted with you in your sad, pathetic, wasted life. Father Geek may get on his high horse and decide to ban me for this post, but I neeeeded to say it. Your are a pain in all of our asses an need to be exterminated at the earliest possible convienence.... "yes my precious we hates you forever"; so there, I'm on topic! AND: the LOTR films will absolutely kick major booty and I will no longer heed your negative horse shit posts, (not that I ever gave them much creedence in the first place: YOU JUST CHAP MY ASS!! Eat shit and die. Sincerely, SM{;-0

  • March 9, 2000, 4:15 p.m. CST

    Oh.... and for all you spelling wonks out there...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...of course it should have been: ASSOCIATED. Got your ears on greenleaf ? SM {;-0... AKA: the typo king.

  • March 9, 2000, 4:39 p.m. CST

    Hobbits Ahoy

    by Kraven just posted a color promotional snap of the actors playing Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin in full costume, taken from the new issue of Vanity Fair. Just thought you'd like to know...

  • March 9, 2000, 4:40 p.m. CST

    Our love hate relationship....

    by CLAIRE S.

    Oooooohhh Harry. You dirty bird. Sun of a whore, I can't believe you saw it!! Bastard, Bastard, Bastard. But, you are going to tell me every fucking detail or else I will come to your house in the middle of the night, drag you away from your peaceful slumber, where we will construct and nail ourselves to crosses in the mirky night. Guess Who? You may have me this time Harry, but remember who was there. Remember who was there. Ha Ha Ha ha. Okay, sorry about that. I'll just be seeing you later at SXSW.

  • March 9, 2000, 6:06 p.m. CST

    It'll be sweeter

    by stnwlljcksn

    Hey, it's good to know they're making this thing right. It's worth the wait instead of getting some cheap attempt at the film. Besides, we'll be that much more hungry for it when it does come out.

  • March 9, 2000, 6:41 p.m. CST

    What or who the heck....

    by Nivek62

    is DMFC? Not that I'll waste a brain cell remembering it. Just curious.

  • March 10, 2000, 3:15 a.m. CST

    sighh!I've sen the face of morgoth

    by morpheus

    and it is the pic of the hobbits staring back!They've set Tolkien's wide world into a tiny segment of history.putting ME into the midieval times(what we were taught the classical times) because of the 'less ideal' earlier eras would be akin to say, laughing at the 'crude'earlier use of morphing in the tranformation scenes of Willow while oohing and aahing at the 'inventive' morphing scenes of the later Terminator;forgetting as usual that without the earlier 'crude' experimentation of willow we wouldn't have the 'classic' scenes of Terminator. .once again i plead what England and European is.Europe(or england) is a much wider term than we allow.If it is the land and the cultures and the history then europe go way way back.Ten thousand years ago the people and their culture might be different but they are earlier european.England is there in the themes of the books.we need not symbolise England in the medieval clothing a nd other designs .symbolizing are the essence of fairy tales(not in the context of tolkien ),not a historical one.The half legendary era of the Numenorians(atlantis),the coming of men into the west(think celts and the other tribes that migrated from the east;the three houses of the edain are obviously the three genetic stock of the europeans,the nordic,the alpine,the meds ),the coming of swarthy men is a phase of history in britain,the gondorian empire ruled third age,descending from the sea kings that came after a flood(the roman era of britain;coincidentally the romans were s'pposedly connected with the etruscans that are descended from anscestors that came to britain before the welsh,ancestors that supposdly came from over the sea after a flood).The expossure of the inhabitants of ME to the cultures of the higher culture of elves and mail and metal working dwarves are reminiscent of the relatively primitive Neolithic people of Europe that benefitted from trade and invasions with the relatively higher cultures of the near east ,the copper uing sumerians,the metaphysics of Egypt,the iron weapons and armor of the Hittites(nm?) etc.It is prejudice indeed to put the whole meaning of europe or england into any particular era.but only if tolkien didn't state any frame of time,which he did......

  • March 10, 2000, 8:09 a.m. CST

    Thanks, Skyway.

    by Darth Vader

    You made my day. :-)

  • March 10, 2000, 8:13 a.m. CST

    I hope to God that you are joking. Only a total fool could

    by Darth Vader

    Please spare me. Do you analyse everything for these so called racial overtones? Why don't you try to enjoy life instead of wasting your time making up such nonsense. No doubt, you are a liberal arts college student who has all the answers to the worlds problems, I'm sure. I think it is fine if you want to waste your time with over analysis of everything, in the hopes of finding possible racists. If thats what gets you off GREAT! Just please don't bother the rest of the human race with it. Thank you Your friend, Scott

  • March 10, 2000, 9:05 a.m. CST

    You asked for it Moaters!!

    by greenleaf

    Of course you're absolutely right, but you know the pathetic bunch is just craving for our attention, the most precious thing in the world. What these assholes have to say is more laughable than anything else; what I truly deplore is when people come up with elaborate counter-attacks, and the last TBs were crowded with that... Not much worth reading, really. This one's not so bad, though it hovers on the borders of nihilism, an impression that comes to me, most probably, from all the TPM talk. ** Ingold, I assume you're referring to my first post, 'cause if you were gonna say what I said in the second, we've got some weird telepathic thing going on, or else we've got the same push...o-hum, TOLKIEN, tolkien, anyone in for Tolkien? Hello everyone!! :) I also think the hobbits could have put on a little more weight, an extra meal a day, what do you say? Can't wait to see more, Harry, more, Harry, more, More, MORE, give us something, give us some setpic or something, some orc dung, some elf brooch, some Dark Lord's eye, anything, Harry you're letting us down, Harry, Harry, Harry... Good old Harry. Nice Harry. Nice hobbit..........

  • March 10, 2000, 12:16 p.m. CST

    The only chub suckers in this thread....

    by Arfalax

    .....are the brain-dead carrion eating jack-offs that spew their venom attempting to get the attention they were denied by their mommies. Question: Is it easier for a wood-elf to get a woody?

  • March 10, 2000, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Re: Arfalax

    by greenleaf

    The answer is yes, and as a matter of fact I'm having your girlfriend at this very moment.

  • March 10, 2000, 3:01 p.m. CST

    Look Out!

    by Kraven

    You fool! That's not his girlfriend - it's her evil twin!

  • March 10, 2000, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Have at it treehugger....

    by Arfalax

    ....I had tossed her aside anyway. She was so torn up she could probably circle middle earth with her frequent fucking miles.

  • March 10, 2000, 9:17 p.m. CST

    morGoth, blackheart!!!!!

    by Elwe Singollo

    missing something from the crown, morG? How's that foot? Some ointment for your face???***** Greenleaf, your post was eloquent and expressed the heart-rending sadness that makes our race so beautiful......And yes, Lucas sucks orc turds through his McDonald's Happy Meal Darth Vader Mask.*********And what's with this XenArwen character? Or is that issue dead?********I heard Keanu was tapped for the fox who wondered, could this possibly be true? "Whoa, hobbits ".*******Some new regulars on this board, I see: Some original, many retreaders.Hmmm, I think I'll hang around for awhile and see what I can stir up. Namarie mellon (forgot the plural form. Help!!)

  • March 11, 2000, 2:49 a.m. CST

    can you not see whats happening here morgoth?

    by morpheus

    Wahts the difference between beetle like orc amors that calls up frank frazetta and 18th century clothes and viking gettups of the rohirrm and the Greek like metres long spears of the Dunlendings besieging the helm?Nothing.Only in degrees of time separation.Imagine an actual land or more importantly an era where beetle like heavy metal(present day) Frank Frazetta armor exists alongside Viking costumes and grecian weapons with 18th century clothes to bboot!Such a land as historical wouldn't exist.Only as a symolism does it exist.think of the new 'Titus' movie. where the original shakespseare story takes place within an era,this movie takes us from the ancient rome to the present and the future.Think of Roman citizen Titus riding a cadillac!Now picture Viking warlords fighting along 18th century farmers!It wouldn't do...I think too many cooks here(the grecian designs from the designer of Xena,the 18th century clothes from the designer of havenly creatures,the medieval vikings of John Howe).Heck!Most of the designers of LOTR can't seem to imagine tall helms when tall foot high helms like the egyptian ones so favoured by tolkien are the norm in the ancient east.If they must transpose visually from our history onto ME(which is really REALY wrong!),then the costumes of the Gondorians must follow the Etruscans',who like the gondorians settled somewhere in the peninsula of italy.The Arnorians or the rangers might follow the Scythians or the Phoenicians'the races that made up the earliest migrations (the firbolgs,formorians etc.)from the mainland to britain.The word Scot from Scotland means the father aand sons that got separated and created separately the northern kingdom of Arnor and the southern kingdom of Gondor,the etruscans are a diverging brach of the migrations of the fir bolgs etc that created a separate empire in the south ,italy, while the formorians to ,finally,the MIletans settled in Britain.The barrows and the stone rings built by the Arnorian spanning the realm of what is the ruling Arnor's area of conquests is akin to the early(megalithic) settled race or races's affinity ot build stone structures aroung the area of spain and Britain.The hobbits would be the celts(with their love for flashy colour),the Dunlending the Picts(one of the earliest settlers of britain,like the dunlendings).The Rohirim the ANglo saxons. etc.We shouldn't take tolkien's transposition of our into the less familiar world ofME too literally.Just because we know that the battleof pellenor field are based on the roman campaigns doesn't mean the easterlings are the eastern barbarians invaders of rome(the goths,the huns) or that the corsairs are carthage! I have fear for this movie,..

  • March 13, 2000, 6:15 p.m. CST

    Very cool stuff at

    by Skyway Moaters

    Check out the new "Grey Book" postings; where Sir Ian so correctly refers to Suruman as his fellow "Astari" (singular for Istari!) The guy is a TRUE Tolkien geek. YAAAAAAYY!!!. SM[;-0

  • March 14, 2000, 6:50 a.m. CST

    It's almost scary to post here!

    by Pippins_Diamond

    I swear the TBs freak me out. I feel I have no choice but to lurk - you guys are opposite poles. Either you leave me completely appalled by your utter stupidity, or totally awed by your higher wisdom and wit and supreme Geekness (meaning that as a compliment, of course). So I'm ultimately scared to post. But I got a lot of stuff n my mind about the LOTR movies, and this time I've decided to come forth and have my first post ever. So be gentle with me. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1) For Frodo's sake, where's Moriarty's report on the preview? - - - - - - 2) Harry, good info, thanks. I'm dying to see a pic of sir Ian in full Gandalf props after your description. I really wish you had gone into detail about how Legolas, Gimli and the hobbits look, though. "We see the Fellowship darting about an amazing landscape..." The FELLOWSHIP! I assume this included Gimli! So how did the dwarfing-up go? And the elvening-up? and how do the hobbits look once hobbitied-up? I'm most concerned about their eyes. I've read they're going to make them bigger. I'm personally very, very unsure about that. Bigger how? South Park big? Lwaxana Troy big? Chibiusa big? I'm sure you can see why I worry! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now, Harry, you've had the blessing of having seen this already, and you're telling me that Sean Astin looks great as Sam. So I'll try to trust in your good judgment of hobbits, but I have been looking at the Vanity Fair hobbits pic day and night since it came out... and I can't get it out of my head that Sean Astin looks murderous as Sam. I don't know what on Earth they did to this fellow to make him look like that, but I wouldn't wanna meet the Sam from the pic in a dark alley, that's for sure. Now, don't get me wrong, I thought that casting choice was perfect, I consider Sean a fine actor and a good-looking guy, but I do hope he looks a lot different in the actual movie.- - - - - About Frodo, I wish Elijah had gained a little weight for the first takes. He's too damn thin. PJ is making Sean eat but not Elijah - What's up with that? Now he's gonna have to look like a wraith by the time they're finished with Mount Doom if I'm to believe that Frodo and Sam barely had any lembas! A *wraith*! Let us not speak of such things! Another big, fat, greasy leg o' Orc for Mr. Wood, please!- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 3) FOTR: Christmas 2001?!? We'll be OLD by the time ROTK is released on DVD! - - - - 4) Let's all hope and pray that they let this preview loose on the 'net soon. I don't know why they're complicating things with the music. Release it without music in two days, and I'll be just as eager to download it when you release it two months later *with* music. What do you think? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 5) The million silver pennies question, Harry - what's the color of Legolas' wig? It better not be blond! It better not, or my life will be officially over! ;) - - - - - - - - - 6) TPM. There's hardly anything else on the

  • March 14, 2000, 11:27 a.m. CST

    PD... iffen you want's to see what the Hobbits are lookin like..

    by Skyway Moaters

    Check out this URL! SM{;-0

  • March 14, 2000, 11:39 a.m. CST

    You raise an intersting point PD...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...since they ARE being filmed all at once; what IF FOTR blows chunks? Re-shoot? Re-edit? Re-write? T2T an ROTK? Will the movie going public's perception that they were all shot of apiece render any such efforts null and void no matter how well they are executed? Will anyone but film geeks and Tolkienoids even KNOW that all three were shot at once?...Hmmm, puzzle puzzle. SM{;-0

  • March 14, 2000, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Another tidbit gleaned from McKellen's "Grey Book"...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ..."There will, it turns out, be no such Hobbiton Theme Park, at least not one which features our film sets. I gather that these have been destroyed as part of the filmed action. Perhaps their charred remains will be rediscovered by bemused archaeologists sometime in the next century."...Which in my interpretation means that TSOTS WILL be included in ROTK! HUZZAH! SM{;-0

  • March 15, 2000, 7:56 a.m. CST

    About details and other things...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    I think if Harry got a glimpse of Frodo and Sam he should at least be able to tell if the big eyes look unnatural or well-executed; I mean, it's not like I'm asking how many hairs were there in each of master Gandalf's bushy eyebrows or anything. Still nothing new from Harry, though. - - - - As for Legolas being blonde or not... I really don't want to get into that subject! Shhh! Ingold, don't tell greenleaf I said anything! It sounds like I'm perusing through rather deadmarshy waters... especially considering I'm not nearly *half* as learned in Elven lore as you people. I just read LOTR for the first time last month, and I found out the movies were being made after I was halfway through the book and decided to see what the 'net had on it (it never occurred to me before!). BTW, thanks for the welcome, Ingold! (are you the same Ingold who wanted to at least play Ingold in the movies? The Road goes ever on and on? Now, where did I read that?) - - - - - - - Anyway... I'm ashamed to report that I cannot find Moriarty's report to save my sorry hobbit butt. If any of you could post the URL, please do! - - - - - - - - Skyway Moaters... Either I'm failing to see what you pointed me to, or you were talking about the close-ups of the VF pic, which I've seen so many times already it's not even funny. Have you noticed how the pic from looks so much different than the one from TORN? It's like the TORN crew manipulated it somewhat. They almost look like two different shots. - - - - - I fear what the people's reaction will be to the first film, because it will determine the fate of the other two. But you're right, Skyway, maybe the general public won't even know they were all shot at once. Thanks for the little tidbits about the McKellen site. I haven't had time to read the new Grey Book stuff yet. SOTS for sure, then, huh? Woo-hoo! Too bad they couldn't leave a single hobbit hole standing, though! If they had, I would already be planning a trip to NZ in the near future... dagnabbit... - - - One last thing - how much truth is there to the rumor that Sean Astin's daughter will be playing Elanor? She's about four years old, isn't she? What does that mean? I'm confused now. ---Diamond.

  • March 15, 2000, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Im afraid I misinterpreted your question about PJ's Hobbit's loo

    by Skyway Moaters

    ..PD...YEAH HARRY!! What the heck did them oversized glaz balls look like anyway ? *** For what it's worth, (and greenleaf will almost certainly disagree with me(this has been a subject for "raging" debate as long as I can remember))I think Legolas has/should have black hair. I picture him exactly like this: *** Another useful URL: will take to the archive of all the 88 LOTR items that have been posted at AICN. *** I couldnt find the Moriarty piece Ingold referred to either. Namarie Mellon tom fool of a Took you! SM{;-0

  • March 15, 2000, 10:41 p.m. CST

    re,pippin's diamond

    by morpheus

    Lets hope PJ was trying some achondriac(sp? features fairly (with large eyes appropraite to the hobbits' prp[ortion.)common in midget races and not increasing their cuteness level. This association with 'elvish' pertness and sharp pointy ears are too strong.Blame it on CS Lewuis and company.Tolkien never mentioned the hobbits as having cute or lovely features.their face are 'broad' an 'good natured'.The cuteness factor is found in their quaint rustic personalities.Tolkien's hobbits are very real races not the kind of midget anglo saxon race or the rabbity kind(according to the idea of the day) favored by illustrators.They might be pymies.Tolkien sometimes doesn't states what is obvious.Leaving us to ponder it out ourselves(which is right with the epic tone of LOTR).For example the North men like Beorn plus Beren and Luthien are said to have the ability to change into animals physically by elvish arts.These 'elvish arts'would then be the sympathetic art of donning the skins of animals(think the ghastly hame of thuringwethill and Draugluin(nm?)).The changes would then be in the mind not the body.Although it wouldn't matter much once the changes inside has begun,as they usually believe themselves to be the animals of whose skins they wore.Withces that undergoes 'flying trances' always mAINTAINED THAT tbey were ctually flying even thou they were confined physically all the while to a room(again think of turingwethill flying).Tolkien well versed as he is in european mythology would have been aware of the berserkers of the vikings and the science of lycanthropy.....I think btw i would the first to be dissapointed by FOTR.......

  • March 16, 2000, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Haired through the grapevine

    by greenleaf

    Hullo Tolkiendili, my thoughts are with you. Moriarty's take on the Showest reel can be found at You'll have to plow through some serious amount of creative fiction to find it, though. I urge you, Diamond, to visit and read the Grey Book and the E-posts about the LotR, as it contains some of the most interesting stuff available on the Net about this project! Many thanks to Sir Ian. To you Skyway I ask: what lies behind your interpretation of the destruction of the Hobbiton set? I fail to see how this guarantees (or at least suggests) the inclusion of TSTOS. Fill me in. Oh, before I leave, there is still the matter of the hair, since Pippin's Diamond has expressed some reluctance towards the subject (this is a DON'T DO), and since the dutiful Ingold Goofball and Wayward Moaters have duly portrayed me as a rabid supporter of the blonde party or as it used to be called, the Nazi party. To ye I say Nay, the issue is debatable, with the kind of endless debate without proper outcome. Legolas Thranduil's son is descended from the Grey Elves (Sindar) and they are usually dark-haired (eg Elwe Singollo). However to make this statement completely void I may add that Thranduil is also of Sindarin descent and that in 'The Hobbit' he is said to have golden hair. Sky has always pictured Legolas like Inger Edelfeldt does and so Legolas has dark hair, and I always pictured him with fair hair so Legolas is blonde. I don't see any contradiction. NOOOO!!! I don't want to hear any...NO!! TRALALA BOUM BOUM IIIIIIIIIIIII KRRSHCH PUT-UM PUT-UM PUT-UM LA LI LA LA LAM POUM POUM TRALALA.... ok finished? Good. BTW, a spy report of TORN's (and that implies the usual degree of credibility) said BLONDE. That'll make my job easier come Halloween if I ever tackle the art of the bow, and if Inspector Clouseau (ahem, Chief Inspector) tires of working undeur coveur at the ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW. "Madame or Monsieur, I arrest yu in ze naym of ze leuw, and....wat, wat waz dat you said?!! Yes, YES, I knew dat, YOU FOOL!!" So much fun. Nam

  • March 16, 2000, 1:31 a.m. CST


    by greenleaf

    Thou hast grown very ranty these days, master. Hast thou completely lost faith? I understand thy concerns but they are thine, and do trouble me but slightly. All of us have obsessions and thus special areas of expertise and it is improbable (for any film or any work of art for that matter) to fully satisfy us in these domains. I am concerned with the matter of music, its style and its active role in the cinematic experience (assuming we're dealing with a great director), and I used to discuss that but no one seems to think this is important. I would be angry with myself if I failed to trash James Horner one more time, he sucks big time; bring me Wojcieh Kilar any day. Not that Fellowship will necessarily blow if they use the precious little soppy themes of that Horner, wringing the towels of John Williams or Zamfir or any perpetrator of the modern debasement one can vaguely refer to as 'that Celtic feel'... But bless me, I digress. As I was saying, be not so hasty as to condemn these movies because it looks like some of your expectations are not going to be fulfilled. Expect the unexpected, say I. A work of this size cannot fall under one single flaw, however big you may think it is, and while the movies may prove disappointing to those who have already envisionned the work of Tolkien, they will most surely show merits of their own. Well, that's my counsel, and you're free to reject it with scorn :) In the meantime we're all dying to see these films, and we should draw our energy from that, and despair not.

  • March 16, 2000, 6:04 a.m. CST

    Legolas' hair... Heavens, am I really discussing this??

    by Pippins_Diamond

    TRALALA BOUM BOUM IIIIIIIIIIIII KRRSHCH PUT-UM PUT-UM PUT-UM LA LI LA LA LAM POUM POUM TRALALA... Oh, stop it, master Greenleaf! Not a word about it I'll say! I just cannot believe that I've risen to this level of Tolkien Geekness (from zero to Legolas' hair) in the record lapse of 2 weeks. Okay, maybe I'll say just a word, but nothing controversial, mind you, I don't have it in me just yet... My dear master Skyway, I thoroughly agree with you and with master Inger Edelfeldt. Most well-versed master Greenleaf, the words 'rabid supporter' are not that far away from the truth, from what I read from you. ;) However, I'm still sticking with a non-blonde vision Legolas, even though you bring me ill tidings that the TORN spies say blonde. I shall pay no heed until I see the ambrosian footage that has been promised to us in the near future myself. - - - Morpheus, I'm afraid the smartest thing I can reply to you is that I share the hope that what you've mentioned is what PJ has in mind. - - - - - SHOWEST: Diamond survives plowing through the Moriarty-and-Harry survive-a-strip-club report. Thank you, Greenleaf. Very interesting and hilarious, though I'm of the opinion that there was more effort poured into describing the detail of the whole stripper tits club saga than into the actual LOTR footage details. I thought Moriarty had taken notes? Somehow I fancy those were but feverish sketches of semi-nude women in orc armor on that notepad... Ah, well, they do their best, it's me who asks too much... BTW, Greenleaf, come Halloween be sure to post pics somewhere on-line! - - - - - I already read the new Grey Books most recent report. Sir Ian McKellen is the coolest. Great stuff there. If Skyway will allow me, I'll tell you what makes us think that it at least suggests the inclusion of TSTOS: "There will, it turns out, be no such Hobbiton Theme Park, at least not one which features our film sets. I gather that these have been destroyed as part of the filmed action." I think I need not say more! - - - I do think the score is very, *very* important, but I'm afraid I've searched and searched my mind and I do not have any authority on the matter to even suggest a name. - - - - I find it rather queer that nobody seems to have been concerned with that little 4-year-old Elanor bit. Maybe it's me? How old was Elanor at the end of TGH? Should I jump into the bandwagon and end this and future posts with Nam

  • March 16, 2000, 9:53 a.m. CST


    by Pippins_Diamond

    Apparently I *do* need to say more about why that paragraph from the GB makes me think TSOTS might be included! Tom fool of a Took indeed! Confound it all! "...I gather that these have been destroyed AS PART OF THE FILMED ACTION." Now, this means they filmed Hobbiton burning, does it not? That means we're getting TSOTS at least in *some* way... flashbacks, vision in the Mirror, two minutes of action shots with proper music in the background... I think I need to get some sleep... either that or a good sip of fiery orc draught...

  • March 16, 2000, 8:26 p.m. CST

    the f@#$%k!!

    by morpheus

    wots 'appening 'ere??

  • March 16, 2000, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Thanks for the link greenleaf !...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...the old mad professor set malenky little lizards crawling all over me plott! *** Do you think P's D and I are misinterpreting Gandalf's comment that: "the Hobbiton set was burned as part of the filmed action"? If not TSOTS then either: "The Mirror of Galadriel", or the scene where Gimli says to Legolas something to the effect of: Now why didn't we send for some of our own folk to help out in the upcoming war? And Legolas looks out with his far seeing eyes, shaded by his long graceful hand, (with just a hint of fine raven hair growing on it (heh)); sees The Dark Lord's forces on the move all over the damn place and replies wistfully something like: I don't think any would come. They do not need to ride to war, war already marches on their own lands? I was perhaps being a bit hasty again Hmmmm? Hoom Hroom ta ralla BOOM? SM{;-0

  • March 16, 2000, 9:35 p.m. CST


    by greenleaf

    The god of dreams is run amok!! Flee or your sleep shall be troubled forever, with or without alcohol!! (but thanx Diamond for clearing the point of the Scouring, my English has a few holes here & there) AAAAACK!! Fleeeeeee!!!

  • March 16, 2000, 9:49 p.m. CST

    No, I stay

    by greenleaf

    I've just remembered I don't actually sleep. ** I don't know, Skyway... But if you ask me, I don't think they've filmed the Scouring. They would need another set to film that, methinks, or at least they would have had to modify the set (besides burning it down). I concede it could vision in the Mirror.... Who knows? 'night all.

  • March 16, 2000, 10:23 p.m. CST

    I wouldn't take it personally Ing' ol' buddy...

    by Skyway Moaters'd you like to get ten gazillion e-mails from a bunch of geeks like us and X Men fan boys to boot? *SHUDDER*. I think it's pretty damned remarkable that he takes the time to answer any of it, albeit short and to the point. I'm sorry I ever bothered to crow about the one liner he sent me. It's become a source of chagrin every time one -O- you Tolkienoid knuckleheads jabs me in the ribs with it....or wait...only YOU (I think) have chided me on this subject! (repeatedly!) I'm sorry dude! No More OK? Don't you have an out-wall you're supposed to be repairing or something? Instead of teasing the menatally impaired? I mean you've only to consider my posting handle for Spam's sake to see what a disadvantage I'm laboring under here.(Even though the response I got was BEFORE the advent of I.M.'s "E-Posts" Nyah Nyah) Appy polly loggies and good nochy to all. Where's Riddley with his Rizzlas when you need 'em? "Fire's 'col 'tel is tol". SM{;-0

  • March 17, 2000, 7:55 a.m. CST

    REs: Ingold, Moaters

    by greenleaf

    Ah, Ingold, it looks like Sir Anthony Hopkins hasn't even bothered to read your telegram carefully... Nobody pays any attention anymore. *** I feel a great lack in my cultural world as I wonder about the origin of the name "Skyway Moaters". If it is intended as an impairment you should tell me where it comes from or else change it to "Skyway Moaners" or perhaps "Sm

  • March 17, 2000, 11:24 a.m. CST

    I was teasing Ingold you Elven dunderhead!...

    by Skyway Moaters

    Skyway Moaters is a peripheral character in Russel Hoban's great and important novella "Riddley Walker". He's a friend of the protagonist, and he isn't any more impaired than any of the other characters in the book. If your're interested (if you can come down off your high horse long enough to type a URL)heres a link that will tell you all about it: *** Anonthy Hopkins?? *** I think you're dead on with you assesement of 2 into 1 if FOTR croaks. *** FLY BE FREE BE HAPPY! Life is to short my dear Elf. {;-)

  • March 17, 2000, 12:39 p.m. CST

    George Lucas rules!

    by Pippins_Diamond

    Heh heh, just kidding; I couldn't think of a subject. :P Master Morpheus, is something the matter? I hope it was nothing I said... crushing some athelas leaves may do you good, you know... - - - - - - - - Greenleaf, I'm laughing the hair right off my feet. Holes in *your* English? And what you said about if FOTR fails... heavens, you're right, they just might do that! Noooo! And if they *do* exactly that? Well, I'm afraid we'll be sadly forced to form a Company of Nine to go seek that evil film to the land of Hollywood, and once there cast it very, very deep into the New Line executives' (and PJ's) own "Cracks of Doom", if you get my meaning... - - - - - - - - Ingold, if it was a long, elaborate letter you wrote, perhaps you could try sending it a second time, maybe you'll have better luck. ("magento"?? gah!) - - - - - - - - I'm having second ideas about the Mirror of Galadriel theory - Why would they burn the sets now only for a minute-long scene they have to add *later* anyway to the Mirror using FX? - - - - - - - - - - - Elanor. LOL, master Ingold! BTW, I think I finally got it right, so I am going to spew forth my theory of why Sean's lass being 4+ is important to *us*: Elanor the Fair is born on March 25, S.R. 1421. Frodo and Bilbo depart over the Sea on September 29, S.R. 1421. Which means by the time of the Havens she's.. *counts with fingers* about 7 MONTHS old. So I theorize, if you'll excuse my ignorance should I be way off, that a 4-year-old Elanor in the movies might very well mean that there will be some scenes with Sam reading out of the Red Book of Westmarch to his kids. Either that or PJ is seriously screwing things up by making Elanor 4 by the time of the Grey Havens. That would mean poor master Frodo gets to spend in the Shire about 8 miserable anniversaries of his getting his butt either bitten by Shelob or grabbed by the icy cold claws of the Ringwraiths before he finally decides to get the heck out of there. Or, maybe Sam and Rosie will dance the horizontal mambo (pardon my language) just before the Great Years begin. Of course that shots to hell Elanor's chances of being born a hot blonde maid. Hey, master Greenleaf, how's this for you - Thranduil is blonde in The Hobbit only because there was some almighty G-powder floating in the Spring air round the time of his birth! And thus Legolas CAN be dark-haired! Aha! ;-)

  • March 17, 2000, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Hey PIP....

    by Skyway Moaters

    Who are you REALLY(?) You sure don't talk like someone who has only read LOTR once and is shy about posting. Are you perhaps a banned Tolkienoid poster who has resurrected himself under another handle Hmm? Let me see...Eternal with a personalilty transplant? Goodgulf with a brain tumor....just funnin' witcha'.SM{;-@

  • March 17, 2000, 7:11 p.m. CST

    Riddley Walker

    by greenleaf

    Looks VERY cool, man. I had never heard of it and it's a damn good sign cuz ya gatta get to the cool stuff yerself nowadays if ya take my meanin'. I stumbled a lot on the books' English in the few excerpts I read, maybe I'll try it when I grow more skilled, cuz my English is full of *holes* still (laugh if you must Pip'sD), especially when it comes to deciphering 'slang-words', present or post-apocalyptic. ** Sir Anthony Hopkins, telegram: I was just teasing Ingold you Mannish dunderhead!! (Thank you Moaters, it's the sixth word for 'imbecile' I've learned from you, I am in debt.) ** G-powder: I assume you mean Galadriel-powder, mademoiselle? It is no artefact, and LotR is no Dungeons&Dragons campaign, mademoiselle. Du respect s'il vous pla

  • March 17, 2000, 8:21 p.m. CST

    sorry greenleaf

    by morpheus

    All the posts i've was sent to an ancient TB about of all things. Cantinflas!There's a large bug in AICN and Harry better call the xterminators>.....The only post thatcame out was the incidentally the one i cussed so i'm assuming my posts weren't deleted by harry.Anyway don't let my negative STREAMS OF CONciousness get your first orgASMIC READING OF lotr,moaters.BTW,don't you mean natally impaired?heh

  • March 18, 2000, 3:26 a.m. CST

    The dark secret of my true identity. Skyway...

    by Pippins_Diamond're kidding me, right? If you're not, then I take it as a compliment that you consider me at least as eloquent as Eternal and Goodgulf after brain tumors and personality transplants and whatnot. :

  • March 18, 2000, 4:05 a.m. CST

    A hobbit from the Shire among high Elves and Valar...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    ...and Orcs! and Trolls! and Gollum-like creatures! You guys have been so nice you had made me forgot all about the dark side of the TBs!

  • March 18, 2000, 4:35 a.m. CST

    A hobbit from the Shire among high Elves and Valar...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    ...and Orcs! and Trolls! and Gollum-like creatures! You guys have been so civilized so far that you had made me forgot about the dark side of the TBs... - - - - -P.S. Second time I post this. It appears the first time it was devoured by the same bug that attacked master Morpheus earlier on.

  • March 18, 2000, 6:08 a.m. CST

    A hobbit from the Shire among High Elves and Valar...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    ...and Orcs! and Trolls! and Gollum-like creatures! You guys have been so civilized so far that you had made me forgot all about the dark side of the TBs... - - - - - P.S. This is the THIRD time I try to post this. It appears the past 2 times it was devoured by the same bug that attacked master Morpheus earlier on.

  • March 18, 2000, 8:05 a.m. CST

    A hobbit from the Shire among high Elves and Valar...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    ...and Orcs! and Trolls! and Gollum-like creatures! You guys have been so civilized so far that you had made me forgot all about the dark side of the TBs... - - - - - P.S. This is the FOURTH (aren't I stubborn) time I try to post this. It appears the past 3 times it was devoured by the same bug that attacked master Morpheus earlier on.

  • March 18, 2000, 8:06 a.m. CST

    A hobbit from the Shire among high Elves and Valar...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    ...and Orcs! and Trolls! and Gollum-like creatures! You guys have been so civilized so far that you had made me forgot all about the dark side of the TBs... - - - - - P.S. This is the FOURTH (aren't I stubborn) time I try to post this. It appears the past 3 times it was devoured by the same bug that attacked master Morpheus earlier on.

  • March 18, 2000, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Well, wasn't that embarrassing?

    by Pippins_Diamond

    How was I supposed to know? *blush*

  • March 18, 2000, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Hmmm.. You obviously don't know Eternal

    by greenleaf

    No doubt you will soon be graced with an unforgettable meeting. When you see him try saying "I love you" just to see what happens. You're in for a riotous spectacle. Before I get to Elanor let me clear up a few things... The G-powder remark was just for fun, like much of this whole AICN deal, and I wouldn't like you to think I'm being serious or anything. Put an end to this 'new poster' anguish, I went through that myself, like most new posters, and it's stupid. These talkbacks can get so boring, new faces are a breath of fresh air, even the pale Omega Red reincarnations (inside joke). Spill out your thoughts and have fun! If you mention this Hobbit/Valar thing again I will personnally dispatch Eternal against you and your life will never be the same. Be warned. *** Christ!! You've read the LotR two weeks ago and you speak of the Valar and of the Red Book as if you'd known them forever. How can you know about Sam reading to his children? That part of the book was cut out before it reached the printed form!! Anyway, you know. So yes, that may be what PJ intends to do with Elanor, but I'd be surprised, as it isn't a very fit ending. If I'd direct I'd end it with a shot of the distant Valinor, a faint, heavenly vision; that would be marvelous. It would leave the ending 'open', if that expression means something in your tongue. But maybe PJ want to tell what happens with the Fellowship afterwards, as is described in the appendix; in this case these films would certainly appear as a grandiose epic. That's where we'd get to see Elanor of course (and perhaps a glimpse of Diamond of Long Cleeve?). But honestly I am much more troubled by the case of Arwen than that of Elanor's. Delaying the Grey Havens by a couple of years is less of a sin than Arwen showing up at Helm's Deep... For chrissakes, what are they thinking? Where's the part for Eowyn in all of this? Guess we'll have the usual love triangle stuff. Bollocks! Thrice curse Hollywoodians! Anyhoo, Ethan Hawke won't be Faramir after all (nice), let's just hope there will be a Faramir. *** This is unacceptable and frustrating, morpheus, I urge you to assault Harry's mailbox with ferocity. Nam

  • March 19, 2000, 7:43 a.m. CST

    i'm not ok moaters morgie

    by morpheus

    I'm just sayimg that the specialising in different fields can be seen the finisehd designs.Trust me morgoth it is going to look medieval.Like i've said b4,John Howe's(and any of the modern artist interpreters) feel is correct but not the details.His Gondorian guard tends to look Viking like(no high crowns there only tight fitting cheek guard just like the sutton hoo's-plus the wings which real viking helms doesn't have); when seen ymbolically the Gondorians are tribute to the ancient eastern empires.when seeen historically then the Gondorians might have left the tradition of the one-king dynasty,the stone monuments builing tradition,the foot tall high helms, the trdition of the king claiming descent from the 'ancient sea kings,the story of the flood,the robes and the collars(incidentally the Haradrims wore red robes and also collars;all biblical era decos),the tendency of the biblical era empires to divide south and north,....NOw theres a new report of the fellowship wearing tights! sigh,i rest my case.They've ignored tolkien's consistency of costumes.The gray clothes of Boromir are obviously based on the elves as the Dunedains are the closest and most xposedto the elves' culture;hence the tall helm and black mail(obviously the galvorn of Eol)plus the gray cloaks and tunic which is the trademark of the elves.yet the designers've turned it to red; when the costumes of the Gondorians are balck and silver like those 'metallic' raiments worn by the elves.I hopethey're aware tha the Numenorian kings do not wear crowns only a jewel set on a circlet and for battles the tall helms.Aragorn wore the high helm with an obviously Rohirrim crown 'cos he was after all king of both people.Hence 'the long mail girded with silver' like those worn by the horselords but made of jet black Gondorian .....sigh ,tights indeed..

  • March 19, 2000, 7:52 a.m. CST

    if this goes down ,then read my post at the very top

    by morpheus

    if not nevermind......

  • March 19, 2000, 7:53 a.m. CST

    if this goes down the TB,then read my post at the very top

    by morpheus

    if not nevermind......

  • March 19, 2000, 10:44 a.m. CST


    by Pippins_Diamond

    *bites her tongue as to stop herself from mentioning the hobbit/Valar thing again, lest master Greenleaf should abandon his elvish ways and go orcish on her* ;-) What's 'Anar kaluva tielyanna' mean? (Note to self: start taking daily courses of Quenya immediately). I agree that Sam should look serious, but in that pic he looks a bit mischievous to me, I must say. MHO, o'course. :-) Arwen at Helm's Deep (not to mention the whole Xenarwen deal) is the stuff my nightmares are made of (You hear that, PJ? A teenage girl does NOT want or need Arwen's role being expanded to enjoy this movie! Au contraire!). That, and Legolas' hair, and the Balrog's wings (or no wings), and elven and hobbit ears, all vital topics of uttermost importance, but mainly Arwen's expanded role... LOL, MorG! You might be right on the money about that flag scene... Close up on

  • March 19, 2000, 10:50 a.m. CST

    Anybody know why the new posts are going to the top?

    by Pippins_Diamond


  • March 20, 2000, 8:30 a.m. CST

    TORN setpics: the 'Pin' of Orthanc

    by greenleaf

    I am dazed.

  • March 20, 2000, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus....

    by Skyway Moaters I mean; Yes P's D of course I was only kidding you and I guess you can take it as compliment, (except don't ever compare yourself to Eternal EEEK!), because what I was basically saying is that your posts display a depth of insight into the work that is in my view uncommon among first time readers.*** A four year old Rosie sitting on Sam's knee several years after "The Havens", as he reads to her "The Tale of Frodo of the Nine Fingers and the Ring of Doom sounds both plausible and palatable as the last shot in ROTK. Well done. *** Any Anthony Burgess/Stanley Kubrick fans out there? Consider entertaining a wee giggle? I've been thinking about writing a Nadsat version of Twas the Night Before Christmas, (don't ask me why, I guess the 70ies were good to me). Here's and excerpt: "Twas The Night Before Christmas" Or "The Nochy The Great Bolshy Geezer In The Kroovy Red Platties Came Calling": It was a flip, chill, BASTARD of a nochy, and me and the Devotchka had just settled in for some kip. I was just closing me glazzies get the drift. Namarie Mellyn...WHAT'S up with TORN greenleaf?? SM{;-0

  • March 20, 2000, 9:48 a.m. CST

    I'm pleased as Party Tree punch....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...with all the interest in R.W. Need to warn you all that it's out of print though, and a little hard to locate in the "real" world, unless you know of a better than average used book store. Online is however a completely different story, as the book has somewhat of a cyber geek cult following and can be easily obtained, dirt cheap, at multiple book sites accoss the web. The hard bound editon basically does not exist anymore. The preferred edition that is widely availabel used, is: (US) Trade Paperback - Washington Square Press/Simon & Schuster, (plain blue cover) 220 pp. 1982. Big format, well bound, not the typical crappy small paperback format you see in the grocery store at all. You guys make me sooo...happy...*SNIFF*, "Ben an showed, Riddley's on the road!" SM{;-0

  • March 20, 2000, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Speaking of true identities

    by Pippins_Diamond

    Frenchy Canadians, Virginians, Texans, Russians... so who's who? I'm afraid I cannot tell from your comments alone. Me, I'm from M

  • March 20, 2000, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Is this like that emperor's suit tale or something?

    by Pippins_Diamond

    I don't see anything worth seeing in the TORN Orthanc pics!

  • March 20, 2000, 11:07 a.m. CST

    Hey Skyway

    by Pippins_Diamond

    Why, thank you, kind sir, it is very good news for me to know that I don't sound as ignorant as I originally thought. :-) I have all sorts of ideas of what the last take of TRotK should be, my faves being Sam reading to his kids, Sam going to the Havens, or the distant shot of Valinor... I think a distant shot of the Elven ship would be good too, but I have the objection that it doesn't let us see what becomes of Sam after. - - - I'm afraid I don't know who Anthony Burgess or Stanley Kubrick are. You mention the 70's... I'm afraid I wasn't even born then! Thanks for the info on R.W. I found it online at I am happy to inform that you've sucesfully brainwashed me into buying it. ^_^ Nam

  • March 20, 2000, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Greetings, one and all!

    by Vanyar

    Aiyah! I've been absent from these TBs far too long I see. Wow! Many a new poster. Greetings, Pippin's Diamond. I was once a regular here, but have, sadly, long been absent (got tired of all the silly trollers). Anyway, i'm back, and i see that Greenleaf, morGoth, Lord Elwe and several others are still here. Master Goodgulf? Celt? Where be ye? Any good topics floating about? I must say, i am very happy overall with the job Pjax is doing with the movie, but this whole Arwen at Helms Deep thing has me edgy. I hear Eowyn is also, no, no! Eo-MER, not Eowyn.....this is poor scripting....can only lead to a ridiculous cat-fight between Arwen and Eowyn, or a a minimum, a "I can kill more orcs than you can" scenario. And THAT is supposed to be the friendly contest betwixt Elda and Khazad. **sigh** Namarie, mellyn.

  • March 20, 2000, 11:13 p.m. CST

    Talkback resurrection

    by Dan42

    Well, well, well... would you look at that? I deliberately avoided the last few Talkbacks since they had degenerated beyond salvage. But I'm pleasantly surpised by this one. I don't think there's been a Talkback this polite for a very long time! Or maybe I just happened to cruise in after DMFC was banned ^_^ And to the newbie who swears by Elbereth, ends her posts with "Nam

  • March 21, 2000, 12:08 a.m. CST

    Arwen at Helm's Deep

    by Baggins

    Yes, morG, what in the hell is PJ thinking? After four E-pistles to Michael DeLuca, he graced me with an answer. He defended his boy, PJ, and said that he signed off on the movie after reading earlier versions of the script. He hasn't seen any of the recent rewrites because he's responsible for about 15 movies annually at New Line. DeLuca also suggested that I direct any complaints/ suggestions directly to PJ. Does anyone reading this thread know how to aim an E-pistle in PJ's direction? ***To morG: by the time A & A would arrive at the Pellenor Fields, wouldn't Eowyn be down for the count after doing in the King of the Nazgul? As for me, I could get off on seeing Arwen unfurl her own standard (no slight of Eowyn need be inferred). If she "tags along with Aragorn" as you put it, she is taking over the role her brothers Elladan and Elrohir occupied and giving it more substance. (Similarly with what we already know about FotR and Glorfindel's role.) At Helm's Deep, however, her role is intrusive and cannot be mapped onto the existing characters. It can only diminish the role of other characters such as Legolas, Gimli, Eomer, and Aragorn himself. The appeal of Helm's Deep is that our heroes prevail despite the overwhelming odds against them. Arwen's presence would improve the odds, but would reduce the desperateness of the situation. This has gone on long enough. Namarie, mellyn!

  • March 21, 2000, 12:58 a.m. CST

    just thought to pjif he should be reading at this late a hour of

    by morpheus

    My sentiments exactly,Morgoth!PJ's obviously know the one advantage that us readers have over him nd that would be plot;much debated at that.It would be hard fr hm as a filmaker to mke a movie tht woud surpise s;no sixth sense endings.He might be pressed to change the plot in certain ways.But it wold be wrong now.All new steps involve a new look at things that we've been seeing all this swhile.PJ in order to take us fans unaware would have to sse LOTR in a new light;there is noneed for plot changing.Think of Tolkien's anecdotal of the word 'coffeshop' seen from the other end of the mirror.How do w e go bout doing that?well it is the basis of tolkien's definition of fairy tale,that is to go on.The advice from a ZEn master to his pupil who'd just had (what the pupil thinks is)a revelation,no matter how divine he might think it is,would be to go on.So did Buddha after encountering the army of demon.Jesus after seeing the appearance of God and moses and Elijah personally in fron tof him just calmly shrugged them off,knowing them as visions just that.we might like his apostles oohed and ahed at the sight.Another seemingly different theme in LOTR would be 'doing for the sake of doing'sumpthin very dear to tolkien .conider that Bombadil stood for science for the pure sake of knowing not for control of the materials or environment,not for engineering.Think of the scouring of shire.elven arts are known by that same how do we solve these two now?The answer would in Roald dahl's 'The Wonderful World of Henry Sugar'.the hero obtain 'elven ' magic by the process of doing and doing until he was doing for doing's sake.Like Hiawatha, he through going the 'sufferin' of with drawal of material things and more importantly of orcs in his mind.By this very process of Jesus like suffering was Henry' thought claensed pure and gained 'x ray vision.The key to a new outlook would then be to go on and on we're doing for doing's sake.Wjhat then is thre result?there wouldn't be one .just side effects that one encounters while 'travelling down tolken's perilous road to fairy land',rangin from (the x files) paranormal powers to (religion) numerous descndants for the angel wrestling Jacob to (fiction)gandalf th grey getting a new white robe(heh).The ultimate would the defining act of Jesus's tell the moun tain to moveand it woul move...consider now the definition of Tolkien's magia.....Heck!Thatswhy we liked Star Wars(the original trilo) and LOTR(the Book).Simply we're grateful of George Lucas' efforts to overcome trialswhile filming the trilo;efforts that would mke him later swore off directing.DEspite saying that theworld o LOTR is detailed etc. simply we're admiring his near ,lifetime of 'single minded efforts to write the story.To create a world for creating's sake.George and Tolkien's are one can say minor tiny examples of 'magia'.Their works of 'art'(as tolkien puts it) move us decades after its been published.Our imagination stirred by their works is then the 'phantasm' of Tolkien.Thinkalso of Einstein and Newton.Cult movies(even horor) like BladeRunner are also minor examples of this doing for doing's sake.Like the works of Van Gogh(to alesser degree),Ridley's work was a box ofice failure when it first came out.Then a decade passd and the eighties bringin with it cyber fever.then people started recgnising Ridley's prophetic work,predating Bruce strling nd in the nineties of daily internet world wide contact people are recognising Blade runner as a work of art..........

  • March 21, 2000, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Cheer cheer the gang's all here!!

    by Vanyar

    Hurrah! More and more of the old crew is here! Perhaps y'all got as tired as I of all the trolling and negativism? This TB, praise Eru, has been pretty much free of that. So, what say ye? Shall we email Deluca enmasse and file a protest re: Arwen at HD? Not that it will do much good....I mean PJax isn't going to re-lens the segments he already done just because a few Tolkienians protest. Still, it is disheartening to see that PJax has gone back on his word that Arwen would NOT be part of the Fellowship...ok,ok, I know she isn't an official member from the git go, but joining them at Helm's Deep is a bit much. I say she ought to join them at ruined Orthanc after Gandalf and Saruman have it out. But, as morgy has said, it isn't our is PJ's. BTW, Pippin's Diamond, clever of you to use the name of Peregrin's wife, Diamond of Long Cleve. OK, y'all let's rev this TB up with some topics. Hmmmm, lessee, who do you think Denthor and Faramir ought to be.....and for that matter, Eomer (who Deluca says WILL be in the can only pray)? Namarie, mellyn.

  • March 21, 2000, 10:02 a.m. CST

    Thankee all for the warm welcome! :

    by Pippins_Diamond

    Hello, Vanyar! Pleasure to meet you! Same goes for master Dan42 and for Mr. Baggins. Arwen at Helm's Deep... well gosh, I don't think I need to repeat ourselves about how much we hate the idea... I'm really gonna miss

  • March 21, 2000, 10:21 a.m. CST

    Hmpff!! (meaning I'm with ya, MorG!)

    by Pippins_Diamond

    I'm still here, I'm still here! I just got distracted for about an hour or three... What's this I read? So there *is* going to be an

  • March 21, 2000, 12:35 p.m. CST

    Arwen at Helm's Deep

    by Baggins

    With the theatrical release of "The Two Towers" not slated to be until December 2002, I think we should not give up on trying to persuade PJ that the changes he is making to the battle at Helm's Deep are alienating the core constituency for his movie. Go to the official "Lord of the Rings" web site, click on "Ask the Director," and leave a message stating how you feel. Pass the word to as many Tolkienite fellow travelers as you can. The site is I for one was looking forward to purchasing the DVD which was to have included material that couldn't make the cut for three two-hour movies. Now, says I, why go out and purchase a "more faithful" version if the underlying movie deviates too wildly from the original story? Just for the record, I'm willing to accept Arwen joining the story anywhere from Isengard on afterwards, as long as there are no "cat-fights" with Eowyn. The real struggle is within Aragorn, as he tries to console Eowyn while "letting her down easy."

  • March 21, 2000, 12:41 p.m. CST


    by greenleaf

    Great, more comebacks! But it's become dense and I don't know where to start... Diamond, yes!, garbage, GARBAGE it is!! Hahaha!! And you're also right about PC! HAHAHA! HIHIHIHI!! Jeez, don't we 'non-american' North-Americans have a lot in common? No offence, yanks. BTW, the "Who's Who in AICN", edited by DMFC and translated from the Uncouth by yours truly, says the Texan is Goodgulf (who is absent because old age is playing tricks on his brains, or so runs the tale), the Virginian is morGoth (who claims to be confined to the Outer Dark, but that is a lie, one of many), the Russian is Natalie (she pops up from time to time, usuallly when I'm not around). Celt, who is currently busy scraping the burnt skin off morGy or taking Elvish lessons from Vanyar (one does not know), is a Brit, I think, and Moaters is a well-travelled American from Iowa who has lived in Brussels and Naples and all sorts of places where he probably made big money so he can now rest his bottom on his executive chair and read novels in futuristic English dialects, and post in the talkbacks. As for the French-Canadian, well, it's Dan42. No, wait, it is I. Well, it's both of us! Yes people, there are not one but two frogs in your midst! CROAK! I don't know whence the others come, alas. ** I know, the TORN pics are remarkably unremarkable. Maybe someone can explain to me how this is supposed to be the pinnacle of Orthanc? Or maybe I could stop talking about TORN? What a grand idea. ** I've just discovered something odd... Posts, at the top! Well, whaddya know? (When will Harry finally do something about THAT? Does this mean I've missed the witless crapola that has been deleted? OOH, BUGGER!!) The episode of Sam and his children was originally written as an Epilogue to tLotR. It was removed because it was unfavourably criticized, notably by C.S. Lewis. The children were gathered around Sam after the last chapter of the Red Book had been read to them and they were eagerly asking questions on various topics. (The second version of the Epilogue actually features a Q&A!) Sam also read a letter from Elessar announcing that the King would "approach the Bridge of Baranduin on the eighth day of Spring". I think it was a wise decision to remove it, although without it something is obviously lacking of Tolkien's intentions. With that epilogue, the Lord of the Rings ended thus: "They went in, and Sam shut the door. But even as he did so, he heard suddenly, deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-Earth." The Epilogue is published in Volume 9 (Sauron Defeated) of the History of Middle-Earth by Christopher Tolkien. ** morGoth, I am relieved by the conclusion of your "SPOILER!!". The way it was going I was afraid you'd conclude by making a plea for order and reason, and, most dreaded of all, some atrocious pun... ** Of course Dan42 is right, details that don't bear on the essence of the work are of no importance, as a matter of fact I don't give rat's ass about Legolas's locks (hmm, how's that for alliterative prose?). However, fussing over this kind of issues is a traditional ritual, and I don't mind committing myself for the cause once in a while. ** So, what's yet to be filmed in 'Fellowship', as far as we know? There shouldn't be much Bag End stuff left, for example: I think they take care of the interiors and the exteriors at about the same time, because both involve the same actors. Bree is also filmed inside and out, and we've just learned that the interior scenes of Orthanc were being shot and that the exterior set of Orthanc is currently under construction. So overall, I can only think of three great chunks that have yet to be filmed: Rivendell, Moria and Lothl

  • March 21, 2000, 2:14 p.m. CST

    Arwen at Pelargir

    by Baggins

    Nicely stated, Greenleaf! If Pelargir is shown in "real time" then it undermines the suspense of the fleet's arrival at the Pelennor Fields. One solution is that the taking of the fleet at Pelargir could be shown in flashback, while Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and, yes Arwen tell the others what transpired there.

  • March 21, 2000, 2:19 p.m. CST

    Me too: Hmpff!

    by Dan42

    I think I'm changing my mind a little: Arwen shooting a bow IN A BATTLE would have been completely OK by me. But that battle being Helm's Deep? It's a negative. And swinging a sword? That's another negative. So does that make it 2*negative or negative

  • March 21, 2000, 7:25 p.m. CST

    Welcom back all ye faithful...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ....Tolkiendili! See what we can make out of a pile O shite with a little creativity and perserverence? Bravo. Let us heed no nightly trollers, nothing but moon and starlight shall we acknowledge....Too bad I'm too tired to post much of use right now, except to curse the greedy rotten Hollwood vermin villains that decided they needed a strong leading lady to the point that they are going to grossly distort the story with their mighty morphin' XenArwen/Glorfindel/Halbarad/Elladdan/Elrohir/ etc. interpretation of Undomiel...*Sigh* and "Ick". What fools these money grubbing mortals be. Hope I'll manage to ignore Liv as much as possible and that Arwen's expanded er...Hindenbergesque role is the only thing that sucks about the movies."SNOGgggg..."(snoring sound)PAX SM{;-0

  • March 21, 2000, 7:50 p.m. CST

    Well maybe just one thing further...

    by Skyway Moaters're a madelf greenie and you make me laugh, Better watch the hallucinogens though. Namarie Mellon. (Never forget son... You're a Melon!) A date with Lembas Spice AKA Liv, for the he or she who attributes the quote. Hmmm... that doesn't really work for hetero femaels now do it? Let me see... Golberry's, er...Melian's Girdle? Naaa, that's stoopid. Oh Bother, the standard Isil and a slice O Lembas pie I guess....alright guys not that SPICEY Lembas pie. For shame!***BTW that stuff greenleaf said about me?...all lies. I'm really a 16 year old Japanese Snow Monkey with a good ISP. SM{;-0

  • March 22, 2000, 9:17 a.m. CST

    The Vanyar asks...

    by greenleaf

    I think either of the Fiennes brothers would make a good Faramir, an excellent suggestion from the morGoth. *** As for Denethor, I've said it times and times over... Max Von Sydow. No, he's not dead. Yes, he's a marvelous actor with a strong presence and a great voice. He's tall. Thin. Old. He looks like McKellen in some respects. Well, both are old. Anyway, it's him I want. What's your pick? *** Eomer? Who's Eomer?

  • March 22, 2000, 11:53 a.m. CST


    by Skyway Moaters

    EEEWWW GROSS MAN!!! Harry just tossed his cookies all over my browser! (actually it looks more like the aftermath of a St. Patty's day binge) YUK! Knock it off with the disgusting GIFs already! *** Glad you could join us Vanyar! How about Patrick MacGoohan for Denethor? And who for Faramir...Hmmm...I always draw blank on Faramir casting. So I'm going throw in with you and morG and hope for one of the Fiennes boys. Namarie. SM{;-0

  • March 22, 2000, 11:55 a.m. CST

    Sorry greenleaf...

    by Skyway Moaters Knucklehead gets a little confused sometimes. SM{;-(

  • March 22, 2000, 2:11 p.m. CST

    hullo skyway

    by greenleaf

    Yeah, McGoohan is cool, though I haven't really seen too much of him since 'The Prisoner' series! Sorry about what moaters? I'd swear I've read that from you; maybe I'm hallucinating again. *** Pip'sD, YOU'RE LATE!! }8-[

  • March 22, 2000, 7:20 p.m. CST

    greenleaf: Sorry about replying to your casting post....

    by Skyway Moaters if you were Vanyar! AWK! Got the User ID and Subject mixed up in me 'ed. *** Check out "Braveheart" MacGoohan is GREAT, as Richard "Longshanks". SM{:-0

  • March 23, 2000, 3:41 a.m. CST

    Sorry, I'd like to stray from the Road that Goes Ever On for a m

    by greenleaf

    Movie talk, yes precious! I saw Braveheart in French (eeewww) when it was showing back in 1995, and I enjoyed it a lot. At that time I was quite an ignoramous and not a huge fan of Mel Gibson's. Since then my propensity for obsessive behaviour drove me to see some 200 movies or so, most of 'em out of the German '20s, the Swedish '50s, the French '60s, the American, Italian and English '70s and early '80s, and some out of the Mostly Dreadful '90s. And I'm still not a huge fan of Mel Gibson's. Go figure. BTW, how many *droogs* are there here? Three? There's one missing. Ingold? Were there four of us we could get ourselves some fake IDs (well, about as fake as those we've got now), and the gloopy ones would be in for a few toltchocks, would they not? I wonder who'd get to be Alex?

  • March 23, 2000, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Awright gosh darnit....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...this Isil and Lembas won't keep forevewr you know. Somebody attribute the damn quote so I can get on with my life! What movie is the line: "Never foget son...You're a Melon!" in? *SNIF* Boo hoo, woe is me... it's not fair! EVERYBODY chimes in when MORGY does one of these. I hope Auntie takes you all!; Stoan Boans, Iron Teats and Teef between her legs and all! Hmpf. SM{;-0

  • March 23, 2000, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Good heavens, what's that radioactive green stuff coming out of

    by Pippins_Diamond

    Yes, yes, master Greenleaf, I know I'm late. Let us not be too hasty. Now, what have I missed? Pelargir - a flashback? It would certainly be better as to keep the suspense (much better, in fact), but when would the flashback take place? How are those sequences going to be handled? Would that be a good question for PJ? (It's taking me so long to read the LotR again...). ~ ~ Master Vanyar, what do you mean "use" the name of Peregrin's wife? Are you perchance insinuating that I am not really master Peregrin's loving spouse? Well I never! ;-) Ok, ok, let's move on... Denethor and Faramir... I have no idea. Who do you think Kevin Conway is going to play? My picks to play

  • March 23, 2000, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Wow! Thanks, y'all, for your response to my casting query!

    by Vanyar

    Lots of great casting ideas. Many are just where I was coming from as well. My choices? Lessee, OK, here goes: === Denethor: Patrick MacGoohan, Richard Harris, or Max von Sydow. === Faramir: Ioan Gruffud. === Eomer: Jason Connery or Russell Crowe. BTW, for those who don't know him, Ioan Gruffudd played Horatio Hornblower on A&E....excellent actor....has the right blend that make him perfect for the warrior-scholar, Faramir. Fear not the dark --- remember Hurin's words, "Aure entuluva!"

  • March 23, 2000, 6:36 p.m. CST

    Ding dang 'ol sooty butt....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...iron crown wearin' elf fajita cookin' Vala outcast!! Stole me thunder again! It just occurred to me that that's exactly what 'arry's doin'. He's paying homage to the re-release of "The Exorcist"! Notice that not only is he spewing, (presumably vile) green slop, but that his eyes roll up in his head so that you can only see "the whites", (some life impaired troller will probably wade in and blast me as a racist for that,(shoot, makes about as much sense as calling LOTR racist now don't it?)AND all the veins bulge out on his pudgy little visage to boot! Anyone read the review of the re-release? Sounds to me like they did a bang up job. *** James Horner?! Felgercarb! *** AWRIGHT you knuckleheads, I'll tell you where the stoopid line is from: Rodney Dangerfield in "Back to School"...and you guys/gals call yourself movie fans, HUH! *** Is Peter O-Toole still alive? Is he vital enough to take a part? Woulda' made a great Theoden if he's still mobile; looked pretty caved in the last time I saw him on some talk show or another. I know morGy don't like 'im but I still think Sutherland would make a capital Denethor, but...I like MacGoohan better. Does anyone know if Paul Scofield is still kickin' it? (famous Shakespearian actor. Last thing I saw him, in he played the ghost of Hamlet's (is a hamlet like little pig?) father in Mel Gibson's Hamlet; stole the show.))*** I guess I'm not keeping up with the current crop of leading men, but I absolutely draw a blank when it comes to casting for Faramir and Eomer. Gabriel Byrn is just a little too old for either. Too bad, he would have rocked. Dare I mention the Baldwin boys?! ACK! NAAA they't they?. Cheech Marin as Gan Buri Gan? (yes, now I'm kidding, put down the flame thrower). Guess I'll go check out the bloke what Vanyar mentioned for Eomer cause "me mind's a blank". Attribute THAT you geeks! Namarie Mellyn. SM{;-0

  • March 23, 2000, 6:44 p.m. CST

    CRAP... Forgot about Hugo...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...sorry morG. Hugo works great as Elrond for me. The guy is one HELL of a good actor. Kinda' funky lookin', but PJ's cyber paint brush'll fix that. SM{-0 ...HELP I'm blind! who turned out the lights?!...{;-0...whew, that's better.

  • March 23, 2000, 10:39 p.m. CST

    Hey, wait a minute, morGoth

    by Dan42

    You're a Southron? A Haradrim? And here I thought you were a super-mega-evil master-of-darkness-n-stuff. How disapointing! ;-) - - - - - For the music: Yoko Kanno and/or Mizoguchi Hajime. It's not that I'm an expert in composers (AT ALL!) but those two can really kick ass. If you want a taste, go to and download "Dance of Curse", a thundering orchestral piece with a great chorus. It's the kind of stuff Lucas can only wish he'd had for Episode I! - - - - - Hugo Weaving for Elrond is the second of PJ's choices that seems "strangely fitting" to me (the other one being Elijah Wood). I would NEVER have thought of him (for one, he looks younger than I imagined Elrond) but now that I think about it, I can REALLY picture him as Elrond. - - - - - Nam

  • March 24, 2000, 7:18 a.m. CST

    MMM... let us see

    by greenleaf

    Yeah, I heard some... someone, some woman of some sort speaking some kind of Elvish... 'Mae govannen'... Yeah. Well, it was Elvish, and it was definetely a woman speaking. OK... Great!! And, um, 'tis also said up up way up there at TORN that Eomer has been cast, apparently an unknown... And not an American. Some guy from Australia or NZ perhaps. Eeer, what... What else? EEeee, yes, Diamond (good to see ya back, BTW): you made me jump up in surprise and delight when you mentionned that bit about Wojcieh Kilar. Pray tell us if that is recent news and if so, the source, because we've had James Horner looming ominously here for a couple of weeks... Well, that's about it for me, I am e-x-t-i-n-g-u-i-s-h-e-d..... Pour out the stuff, if any; I'll see you later. <:o|

  • March 24, 2000, 11:35 a.m. CST

    Helm's Deep

    by Baggins

    Whoops! Looks like Harry's gone on the blink! I noticed that TORN's post about the casting of Eomer (Hurray! Hurray!) was accompanied by mention of McKellan in scenes at the Helm's Deep site. I hope this is just at the beginning and end of the battle, or PJ's bending the story out of shape again. P.S.: I have no trouble with Liv Tyler as Arwen, just concern that PJ is changing Arwen's role too much. Maybe if Liv Tyler isn't credible swinging a sword, PJ will decide to drop that idea. (Hope springs eternal.)

  • March 24, 2000, 12:27 p.m. CST

    It's not just Galadriel...

    by Dan42

    ALL spies at TORN make very little sense. Take a picture of some cars or trucks in a parking lot and call it a spy picture of Orthanc. Take a picture of a nice paysage and call it a spy picture of Lothlorien. Report a few banalities (Lee and McKellen are going to be filming day scenes for a while? wow!) and it's "droolable news" Really, it's pathetic! - - - - - Did you notice that me, greenleaf and xoanon are all French-Canadians? A coincidence? No! It's the first signs of our diabolical plot for World Domination! BWAHAHAHA!

  • March 24, 2000, 3:07 p.m. CST

    Make sure that it is the real Strider

    by Pippins_Diamond

    MorGee, sorry 'bout the deliberate use of the word "yanks". Got carried away what with Greenleaf using it and all... ;-) I'll be careful then. Now that that's settled... Possessed Harry. Glad to see he's doing ok now. I think he's blinking much more than usual, though (yes, Ingold, flirtatious even, save us!) Yeah, it was because of The Exorcist (love that movie). Do you think he'll do something similar by the time the LotR comes out on DVD? (No! You naysayer minds, I don't mean puking green stuff! I mean alter the .gif in some way! Sheesh... ;-/ ) ~ ~ In all honesty, I don't see why the movies would blow chunks only and only because of Xenarwen. I'm pretty happy with the rest of the cast, and apparently PJ is handling the hobbits well. And Sir Ian McKellen is Gandalf, for heaven's sake! We can't let Liv ruin the movies for us... (no, I don't like Liv's acting inabilities) ~ ~ Wo... (can't... spell...) Wojciech Kilar - I read about it at : "Polish composer Wojciech Kilar has been selected to provide the symphonic soundtrack for the movies. He should begin working on the score around the beginning of May, 2000." It gave me the impression it was real news, not only a rumor, since the rumor of W. Kilar has been around for a long while already. ~ ~ I like Hugo as Elrond. Very good actor, and you're right MorG, he looks a little Elvish already. I think he'll fill the part perfectly. BTW, I think Harry only bothers to reveal LotR tidbits he gets exclusively for AICN... I wonder if he still reads this TB (the eyes, Harry, what about the eyes!? And the WINGS, oh, the wings! and the HAIR!... >;-) ~ ~ What, MorGoth isn't THE Dark Lord, but a native of the sun-baked lands to the south?? LOL, Dan42... Well, maybe he just didn't want to come off as *too* evil with the "yanks" warning, and said

  • March 24, 2000, 5:55 p.m. CST

    Just what we always wanted....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...gratuitous gore on the talk backs(?) YE GODS MAN!! There's wimmen an' childern out here! Besides, if someone pops a cap in you forehead who's gonna get the scoops for us?!....On the other hand, I've often thought I'd like to shoot that annoying ass .gif. What are you paying homage to this time? A re-release of "The Dear Hunter"? OOPS! I'm off topic! EGAD! now I'll have to live in fear of Father Geek's delete key; YIKES! um.... Gollum is pitiful, he gives me the creeps....Whew! Back on topic. SM{;-0

  • March 24, 2000, 5:56 p.m. CST

    Just what we always wanted....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...gratuitous gore on the talk backs(?) YE GODS MAN!! There's wimmen an' childern out here! Besides, if someone pops a cap in you forehead who's gonna get the scoops for us?!....On the other hand, I've often thought I'd like to shoot that annoying ass .gif. What are you paying homage to this time? A re-release of "The Dear Hunter"? OOPS! I'm off topic! EGAD! now I'll have to live in fear of Father Geek's delete key; YIKES! um.... Gollum is pitiful, he gives me the creeps....Whew! Back on topic. SM{;-0

  • March 24, 2000, 5:57 p.m. CST

    Just what we always wanted....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...gratuitous gore on the talk backs(?) YE GODS MAN!! There's wimmen an' childern out here! Besides, if someone pops a cap in you forehead who's gonna get the scoops for us?!....On the other hand, I've often thought I'd like to shoot that annoying ass .gif. What are you paying homage to this time? A re-release of "The Dear Hunter"? OOPS! I'm off topic! EGAD! now I'll have to live in fear of Father Geek's delete key; YIKES! um.... Gollum is pitiful, he gives me the creeps....Whew! Back on topic. SM{;-0

  • March 24, 2000, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Where are the ding dang posts a-goin' to ?

    by Skyway Moaters

    Lost In SPAAAAACE !

  • March 24, 2000, 6:03 p.m. CST

    GREAT, just what we always wanted....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...gratuitous gore on the talk backs(?) YE GODS MAN!! There's wimmen an' childern out here! Besides, if someone pops a cap in you forehead who's gonna get the scoops for us?!....On the other hand, I've often thought I'd like to shoot that annoying ass .gif. What are you paying homage to this time? A re-release of "The Dear Hunter"? OOPS! I'm off topic! EGAD! now I'll have to live in fear of Father Geek's delete key; YIKES! um.... Gollum is pitiful, he gives me the creeps....Whew! Back on topic. SM{;-0

  • March 24, 2000, 6:03 p.m. CST

    GREAT, just what we always wanted....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...gratuitous gore on the talk backs(?) YE GODS MAN!! There's wimmen an' childern out here! Besides, if someone pops a cap in you forehead who's gonna get the scoops for us?!....On the other hand, I've often thought I'd like to shoot that annoying ass .gif. What are you paying homage to this time? A re-release of "The Dear Hunter"? OOPS! I'm off topic! EGAD! now I'll have to live in fear of Father Geek's delete key; YIKES! um.... Gollum is pitiful, he gives me the creeps....Whew! Back on topic. SM{;-0

  • March 24, 2000, 6:31 p.m. CST

    GREAT, just what we always wanted....

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...gratuitous gore on the talk backs(?) YE GODS MAN!! There's wimmen an' childern out here! Besides, if someone pops a cap in you forehead who's gonna get the scoops for us?!....On the other hand, I've often thought I'd like to shoot that annoying ass .gif. What are you paying homage to this time? A re-release of "The Dear Hunter"? OOPS! I'm off topic! EGAD! now I'll have to live in fear of Father Geek's delete key; YIKES! um.... Gollum is pitiful, he gives me the creeps....Whew! Back on topic. SM{;-0

  • March 24, 2000, 7:49 p.m. CST

    Post order hosed up again...

    by greenleaf

    ...and Moaters got thrice-published way up there. He's reacting to the... yes, the... Harry, WHAT THE FUCK? (Don't repeat this, Diamond, it's No-No...) It's paradoxical 'cause I'd like to shoot you in the head for those bloody gif animations. :) GET YOUR NANOBOTS WORKING, MAN! Where are the unofficial pics from the Rivendell set? /\/\/ Dan42, what are you saying, that Xoanon is a Frenchie? Pourquoi, parce qu'il donne l'impression d'

  • March 24, 2000, 7:55 p.m. CST


    by greenleaf

  • March 24, 2000, 7:57 p.m. CST


    by greenleaf

  • March 24, 2000, 9:09 p.m. CST

    Die, Harry, DIE!!! (heh heh)

    by Pippins_Diamond

    Sorry, couldn't resist. ^_^ I just read Harry is accepting submissions from everyone who wants to alter the harry.gif. (Eeek!)... Anyway... I'm a bit bored so I thought I would drop by and add that I think Yasunori Mitsuda would in fact do a great job were he to compose the score for the LotR. (Been listening to the Creid CD for a while. You can find the .mp3s with Lycos, I recommend "Balto" and "Creid")~ ~ For what it's worth, I'll point out that W. Kilar being selected is mentioned within the actual movie facts, and not in the rumors section of the site I referred to before. What else can I say? I'm bored, I am! I think I'll go drop a stone down a deep dark pit in Moria, see how long till it hits rock bottom... yeah...

  • March 24, 2000, 9:32 p.m. CST

    Huh? Don't repeat what? :-]

    by Pippins_Diamond

    LMAO, I can just picture Xoanon too... Haven't heard the score from the Bakshi flicks, will do as soon as the movie comes in the mail... Hey, I'm neither too old nor too young to know about Castlevania and MegaMan (how old are you, master greenleaf?). I remember back when I was a wee lass I would spend hours on end playing MegaMan. My notebooks were full of those codes with the little color balls. Alas, it has been long since then... I've never played the original Castlevania, but I recently finished Castlevania 64. Video game composers are highly underrated, IMHO. They can whip up truly wonderful music... the violin theme to Castlevania 64 is beautiful. Damn good game too... Personally, I think the fact that most of the cast is at Helm's Deep does not necessarily mean they're all filming a scene there. :-) ~ ~ Skyway, despite your sarcasm, yes it is what we all wanted! Especially after the puking green stuff .gif! So at risk of repeating myself needlessly: Die, Harry, DIE!!! >:-)

  • March 24, 2000, 9:34 p.m. CST

    Up here, hey, we're up here!!!

    by Pippins_Diamond

    I daresay this poor TB can't tell apart its feet from its head anymore... tsk tsk...

  • March 25, 2000, 8:16 a.m. CST

    Well, this TB is in ruins at last

    by greenleaf

    I guess we made the most of it. Unless this post comes out in its rightful place by some divine intervention (heeeellllooooo? anybody home?). I forgot to mention to you, Diamond, that what you saw about Kilar made indeed the news some time ago, but since then TORN (yes, TORN again) has revealed that no composer had been hired as of yet, and that PJ's first choice is James Horner, if he's available. If not, I guess Kilar comes next; there may even be other names considered. Let us pray.... /\/\/\/ It is a long time since I put in the shiny red balls in the password grid myself, 'twas a hobby of my early teens, but I'm now past my second decade in this merry world: 20 y.o. I am, since you want to know. Care to tell me your age? If that lore is unfit for public domain, you can whisper it in my ear, which is just a click away...... HAPPY NEW YEAR, EVERYONE!!

  • March 25, 2000, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Happy New Year...? Oh yeah...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    Wow, Harry lost weight! Well, whaddaya know... He still has a big ol' head, though. Neat Oscar .gif. ~ ~ Ruins, you say? Awww! But it did come out in its rightful place! Mhh... so it's old news about Kilar then? *sigh* Why do you guys fear Horner so much anyway? ~ ~ So... you're in your tweens, master greenleaf... Then we're only about a couple of years apart. :-) About the lore of my age - No, we aren't careful about that. As a matter of fact, I turned 18 (human years) last december. I'll have to figure out how old that is in hobbit years later... probably 30... am I being too hasty? ~ ~ If someone is still reading, Happy New Year, folks! Let's celebrate with some 1420's! Not yet? Ok, then we'll wait until... what was it, April 6? ~ ~ Yes, MorGoth, I do know we can send e-mail... but I'm just not any good at replying. In fact, I'm seeking refuge in this TB from the many many emails I owe a reply to. No, email is not an option! It would be months until you heard back from me! :-P I think it would be pretty difficult to get together in the chat. You guys have AOL Instant Messenger? BTW, MorG, how old are YOU? ;-) ~ ~ On a less obscure note (or is it?) I just read that David Wenham has been cast as Faramir. Anybody know this fellow, so you can reassure the rest of us that he'll make a perfect Faramir? Nam

  • March 25, 2000, 2:17 p.m. CST

    I wonder why I hadn't read this before

    by Pippins_Diamond

    From TORC: "I saw 200,000 Orcs marching through Mordor in the background Orodruin --CUT-- I saw the "Green Dragon", many hobbits at the square and a cart driving over a bridge --CUT-- Frodo looks at the ring --CUT-- Far away wolfs howl, Aragorn with brown hair and with what looks to be a 3 day beard draws his sword --CUT-- two Armies crash together --CUT-- Gandalf and Frodo in a cart in the Shire --CUT-- Gimli and Legolas fighting many Orcs --CUT-- The camera flys about Middle Earth, then we can see some people at the horizen, we fly closer and see the fellowship --CUT-- Arwen riding a white horse. Four or five Nazgul chase her --CUT-- Gandalf walking through the snow --CUT-- Sam and his daughter in hobbiton --CUT-- Bilbo with grey wooed hair --CUT-- Orcs detailed faces --CUT-- Christopher "Saruman" Lee in white with his Palantir-staff --CUT-- we see the inside of a hobbit hole--CUT--at the end Boromir (in a rocky landscape) looks at the ring and spoke with sad words about this little thing --CUT- then in big letters: LORD OF THE RINGS - IN PRODUCTION - FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING - CHRISTMAS 2001 - THE TWO TOWERS - CHRISTMAS 2002 - RETURN OF THE KING - CHRISTMAS 2003..." Cool! (but Arwen being chased by Nazgul!? Awk!)

  • March 25, 2000, 2:19 p.m. CST

    Well, duh...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    ...It came out yesterday, Friday March 24, 2000! ~ ~ And how come you can't download the Chrono Cross theme? oh, you must! ;-)

  • March 25, 2000, 9 p.m. CST

    Arwen chased by Nazgul

    by Baggins

    Pip's D, I think that scene must be the "Flight to the Ford" of Bruinen, and Arwen must be doubled up with Frodo on that horse. Another change to the book, diluting Frodo's lone defiance of the Nazgul ("You shall have neither the Ring nor me!"). Another random thought: this late casting of Eomer comes just in time: they've been shooting at Helm's Deep for awhile now, and Eomer is supposed to play a prominent role there ("Guthwine! Guthwine for the Mark!") That is, unless his role has been usurped by XenArwen.

  • March 26, 2000, 4:11 a.m. CST

    Is this blink blonk forum workin' agin' ?

    by Skyway Moaters

    Tried to post when I noticed Harry's GIF taking a bullet to the forehead...pretty dogone tasteless but funny for a change. This post will probably end up in cyber neverland too though, so what's the point? Can someone provide a URL to the "Elf speech" thingy? The movie site has been bouncing up and down like a superball in a panel truck the last several days and I 'aint been able to locate it. SM{;-<

  • March 26, 2000, 4:36 a.m. CST

    Ahh Crapola!!!

    by Skyway Moaters

    That'll teach me! If it don't show up the first time ya postit don't keep trying! I ended up with 4 copies of my inane head-shot post jammed smack dab into the middle of the tb where they aint in any context of any kind. SHADDUP AWREADY !!! SM{;-0 Someone please post a URL for the Elf speech thingy I can't find it at TORN or Still got some-O-that spicey lembas pie for anyone what can attribute " mind's a blank...nickers, cabbages, it's got no bloody beak!"

  • March 26, 2000, 4:45 a.m. CST

    P's D....

    by Skyway Moaters

    David Wenham ? The bloak wot was in "Dark City"? SM{;-0

  • March 26, 2000, 1:41 p.m. CST

    AWWW rats...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...realplayer is locked down on my firewall. NUTS! I can't even download the blasted thing. Someone convert the ding dong .ra file to mp3 an' send it to me for pity's sake! SM{;-(

  • March 27, 2000, 12:10 a.m. CST


    by Goodgulf

    I'm ba-a-a-c-c-k!

  • March 27, 2000, 8:39 a.m. CST

    Harry is an alien?

    by Dan42

    Must say, that harry.gif is getting pretty cool. Harry shooting out an Alien's mouth-within-a-mouth? C'mon, you gotta love it!

  • March 27, 2000, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Ted Sandyman and that senile old Vala...morGy

    by Vanyar

    morGy, old Fiend, you must be slippin. I included the Sandyman casting, Ben Sergent, in a powerpoint file I sent to you MONTHS ago......c'mon, snap out of it ol bean! hehheh. Namarie, mellon.

  • March 27, 2000, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Poor Frodo!

    by Pippins_Diamond

    True, Baggins, that scene's gotta be from FttF... but if Liv's gonna rescue Frodo, then he gets zip! Nada! Not a chance to prove he's not all wimp... He doesn't get to save the others at the Barrow Downs, he doesn't get his lone defiance of the Ringwraiths either... Maybe he'll still get the Shelob scene? :*( (but then, Sam is the real hero there, so what's the point? *sigh*) ~ ~ I read the Elijah Wood quote at TORN, and I'm gonna cry! I swear, if they're gonna portray Frodo as very lively, and then they're gonna break him slowly, I'm gunna cry! ~ ~ As you've probably read by now, the casting of Faramir is not set in stone yet. Any news on the casting of

  • March 28, 2000, 12:50 a.m. CST

    Yes. It's Me!

    by Goodgulf

    You can always verify it's me by my email address - It's REAL. I've been off line for a while moving from Texas to New Jersey. As for Harry becomig an alien and my return - no connection. Besides, I can spell. :)

  • March 28, 2000, 11:45 a.m. CST

    he he he !!

    by greenleaf

    yer a funny guy, Ingold!

  • March 28, 2000, 12:20 p.m. CST

    P's D and TORC

    by Vanyar

    Diamond, I'm not sure about the other regulars here, but the reason "TORC" confused me is simply that I had NEVER been to the site, nor heard of it before. (Not a bad site, BTW). I know that sounds very ungeeeky, admitting that there are JRRT sites out there I haven't seen, but since TORN existed, I guess I didn't think about the possibility of a existing. Well, now I know. Namarie, mellon.

  • March 29, 2000, 12:41 a.m. CST


    by bodah

    whats this i here? Arwen at helms deep? Arwen with a sword. how dare they i dont think anyone has the right to make any changes to a plot which is allready perfect, why mess with perfection? say i was about to make a movie based on the bible, but jesus had a gun and well i left moses out all together nuff said

  • March 29, 2000, 2:52 p.m. CST

    TORC and other lore

    by Pippins_Diamond

    MorGoth, that's a pretty good visualization of the Battle of the last Alliance... it's stuff I haven't read yet, but it sounds really cool... - - - Yeah, 7,000 years actually makes more sense. ;-) - - - - Vanyar, MorGoth, my dear mean, Elf(elves?) and Maia - it comes as a great surprise to me to know that you had never heard of It is so obvious! If ends in .net is probably because .com was taken when they chose a domain name. That's the logic I used to find it, anyway. Heh, this is proof you don't read my posts! ;-) I actually mentioned a while ago: "...Have you noticed how the [Vanity Fair] pic from looks so much different than the one from TORN? It's like the TORN crew manipulated it somewhat. They almost look like two different shots..." Still, it's good that you don't read them. It's always mostly rambling anyway, as you can testify. - - - Master Bodah - I think it will always be necessary to make at least a few changes in the process of converting a great book to a movie script. But at least Arwen is not using a gun! (must trust PJ, must trust PJ... he did direct Heavenly Creatures, after all... Must... trust... PJ...) - - - - - None of you have told me why you fear Horner so much yet. The only reason I can think of is that he borrows from himself, and there is the small possibility that we might end up with a Willow/Braveheart/Titanic mutant score for the LotR.... Ok, I think maybe I see your point. On the other hand, we barely know a thing about Kilar, since he hasn't scored a lot of movies... hmm... - - - - I'm assumming here that you do know about Tol Galen... (heh heh) Well, I went and downloaded the news clip of the bathtub race. Very cool! I should have been there! Damn Elijah Wood groupies, I wish the news people would have interviewed Orlando or Dominic or Billy... Hey, has any of you seen either Urban Ghost Story or that "Coming Soon" TV series? I'm starting to think I won't get a chance to find out if Billy Boyd can act until I watch the FotR! :-p - - - Aw, I can't answer what you ask, MorGee. Hmm... the Battle of the Powers? I do know the last one is the Unnumbered Tears... Let's see, I'm gonna guess for the double lembas points: Gildor? (wrong, I know. Denethor? Glorfindel then...? wrong wrong wrong... ). :-p

  • March 29, 2000, 2:56 p.m. CST

    By the way...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    Where'd that dunderhead Moaters get to? I hope the MP3 file didn't screw up his account! :-{

  • March 29, 2000, 3 p.m. CST

    How did that happen?

    by Pippins_Diamond

    I meant 47,000, not 7,000. But you know that...

  • March 29, 2000, 3:15 p.m. CST

    I don't know why I make this kind of blunders...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    ...But at least I notice. - Vala, not Maia! And I better get outta here before I notice even more blunders! Nam

  • March 29, 2000, 6:01 p.m. CST

    Ut oh...

    by Pippins_Diamond

    Posts are ending up all over the TB again... Let's see where this one ends up... :-P

  • March 30, 2000, 10:57 a.m. CST

    the old forest

    by bodah

    If they skip the Old Forest and Tom Bombadil like they did in that pathetic cartoon then im gonna be pissed

  • March 31, 2000, 5:46 p.m. CST

    Peter Jackson

    by bodah

    has Peter Jackson even read LOTR?

  • April 15, 2006, 12:12 a.m. CST

    post from the future

    by Sir Loin

    Sorry...came back to read these old threads and had to add to this since I remember being psyched back in 2000.