Movie News

Coach Taylor's going to hunt down Osama bin Laden for Kathryn Bigelow!

Published at: Feb. 17, 2012, 8:26 p.m. CST by quint

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. Kathryn Bigelow is hard at work on her currently untitled SEAL Team 6 flick and Deadline caught wind that Kyle Chandler has joined the hunt for Bin Laden.

The film reteams Bigelow with Hurt Locker scribe Mark Boal and has a cast that already includes Jessica Chastain (then again what film doesn't these days?), Edgar Ramirez, Jason Clarke, Christ Pratt, Mark Strong and Joel Edgerton.

Chandler's kind of an All-American type anyway, so it's fitting he's involved. The cast is solid and the team behind the camera knows what they're doing. Count me in!

The flick is set to release in December. What do you folks think of this development?

-Eric Vespe
”Quint”
quint@aintitcool.com
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Readers Talkback

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  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:28 p.m. CST

    That's Good. I Trust Him.

    by Crow3711

    Clear Eyes, Full Hearts...Shoot Him In The Fucking Head.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:32 p.m. CST

    i never believed it happened at all

    by robamenta

    too much strange stuff that made absolutely no sense. but this film will probably fill in the gaps so eveyone can believe this fantasy what an incredibly fucked up world we live in

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:38 p.m. CST

    clear eyes

    by pushthebuttonmax

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:38 p.m. CST

    I look forward to seeing it

    by dukeroberts

    I hope it's as awesome as The Hurt Locker and Black Hawk Down.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:42 p.m. CST

    Chandler is awesome

    by nygfan

    Hey Quint tell me Chandler wouldn't make the best Chief Brody in the inevitable Jaws reboot? Not that I want to see a Jaws reboot, but if we had to have one Chandler would make a fantastic Brody.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:43 p.m. CST

    robamenta ...

    by Toe Jam

    What, pray tell, "made absolutely no sense"? I love a good conspiracy theory, and while the true story may never see the light of day, the general accounts of bin Laden's death seem pretty consistent to me.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:47 p.m. CST

    I've absolutely fallen in love with Chris Pratt on Parks & Rec

    by TheSeeker7

    I didn't start watching it all until about last fall, and wasn't crazy about the Andy character at first, as he was sort of a dick. But he's really settled into a groove now, and dimwitted Andy is one of the funniest characters on all of TV now.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:47 p.m. CST

    Sacha Baron Cohen as Bin laden!!!

    by notcher

    I'd love to see that guy get shot in the head. And anyone who believes Bin Laden is still alive is stupid, but if you just disagree about how he was killed, I won't mind that, as dumb as that is too.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:50 p.m. CST

    I'd rather see Hartnett, Bana, McGregor, Sizemore...

    by notcher

    The whole crew back for a "Black hawk Down" sequelesque movie. I can see Jason Isaacs yelling at Bana, "You're safety isn't on, that's a hot weapon!" Bana blows away Bin Laden and says "This is my safety sir" while showing his trigger finger. That's an ending!!! BRING IT!!!

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:51 p.m. CST

    Lastly, you KNOW Renner is gonna show up too!

    by notcher

    Bigelow owes him BIG TIME! Without his performance, she gets nothing. Not to say she didn't do a great job directing, but Renner took that role and ran!

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Coach Carter?

    by TheAwareness

    cant wait 2 see Nick fury as bin ladin

  • This movie should be pro-Navy Seal Team 6, not a love letter to Dear Leader Obama.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Been a fan since "Early Edition"

    by AttackingClone

    I probably haven't seen everything he's been in but I like him as an actor. Glad to see him get some roles in bigger movies

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Nobody is going to reboot Jaws.

    by Mugato5150

    Not in our lifetimes anyway. They can't even get the Meg movie made because the market is so saturated with shark movies.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 9:26 p.m. CST

    no they can't make Meg because it would cost too much

    by chien_sale

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 9:29 p.m. CST

    >>>>"Chandler's kind of an All-American type anyway..."

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    What the hell is an "All-American type"....anyway? Would Wesley Snipes qualify? Would Asif Mandvi from Jon Stewart's show qualify? Is Jeremy Lin - Pre-New York Knicks - an All-American type? Just what is "All-American type"?

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 9:32 p.m. CST

    ironeagle74

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    Sure it's going to be apolitical. Just like the Superbowl Chrysler Ad by staunch Conservative Clint EastWood. Everyone knows how Eastwood feels about Bailouts. But then again, just like that Chrysler Ad and the Chrysler and GM recovery, it doesn't have to be political for everyone to know who was behind Osama Bin Laden's death just like who was behind the US Auto Industry's recovery. Just be glad they decided to level the playing field (somewhat) and release this movie after the elections. (Not that he needs the help - he's going to pulverize whichever joke comes out of that Republican primary clown car)

  • As long as he stays on Parks and Rec, I'm happy either way. I might even start going to church again, now.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 10:21 p.m. CST

    Ha ha... Christ Pratt.

    by frank

    That is all.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 10:58 p.m. CST

    Chelsea Handler, you say?

    by where_are_quints_hobbit_set_reports

    Good, these grim-faced Bigelow war films could use some comic relief.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=tim+osman

  • Aldo the Apache and the other remaining basterd are cryogenically frozen after they return to the States, having basically ended WWII. Cut to: the present day. Aldo and his basterd sidekick thawed for a mission to kill Bin Laden.

  • Feb. 17, 2012, 11:31 p.m. CST

    Right justmyluck

    by Jeff

    Hes not dead. Also, we never landed on the moon and Elvis lives!!!

  • Benazear buto was assassinated for even mentioning it...(look up her interviews about a year from her death for starters Can we get past"needing" a scapegoat. all it serves is turning good(and in most cases ignorant) people against each other, makin it bad for everyone This film is a terrible farce...more lies on and on and over and over same as the Kennedy thing (can u imagine being Peter Jennings,he spent his youth and life..helping others lie) And ALL of u are 2 blame peace

  • ......followed closely by awepittance who was just edge out. But only just. Take a bow guys. Pick up your one-time only anniversary version tinfoil hats on your way out. Wait..... What if all three guys are the same person posting under different names? Naaah. That would be almost as far fetched as believing that Man landed on the moon.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:12 a.m. CST

    People who think OBL isn't dead are fucking idiots.

    by jrb

    Typical conspiracy nuts who don't bother to think through what they're saying. If Pres. Obama and his administration lied about getting OBL, that would be the end of them. All Al Qaeda would have to do to destroy this presidency would be to have OBL comment about some current event to prove he's still alive. Even AQ's second in command acknowledged that he's dead. And you know damn well that if they released photos or videos of his corpse you'd claim it was photo shopped. Get a life losers. Same goes for 9/11 truthers.

  • Of course, OBL is likely dead — so he would never be brought to lengthy trial and expose what made him the CIA's numero uno boogeyman.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:19 a.m. CST

    What, Bin Laden's NOT dead??

    by TopHat

    What, another Hollywood movie glorifying the "Real Men" of the U.S. Millitary?? What, 9/11 was FAKE?? What, THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN and JOHN CARTER are actually GOOD?? You guys are blowing my mind!!

  • Everyone knows that releasing photos (which you would probably claim to be fake) would only hurt the US. Al Qaeda has admitted that OBL is dead. Lying about it would serve no purpose as it could so easily be debunked by AQ. Deal with it. We got him.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:29 a.m. CST

    And naruto_uzimaki steps in with a brand spankin' new handle. (toss!)

    by justmyluck

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:31 a.m. CST

    *Deal with it. We got him.* = What to say when you have nothing.

    by justmyluck

    Typical.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:41 a.m. CST

    @ jrb - Ummm...

    by kenchun24

    Everybody deserved the right to know CIA asset Tim Osman (or for you simple folk Osama Bin Laden) died in dramatic fashion from Team America, and that's exactly what Bigelow and Boal are going to give us...more medicine to assure the people that our occupations for continued globalization (not wars) have a purpose. One thing I always found interesting is that Seal Team 6 has always been involved in shady shit.Richard Marchinko author of Rouge Warrior:Red Cell has many books on Red Cell's (Seal Team 6) infamous part they have played in almost every US military action the past 40 years.He would know, he led many of the operations during his time of service.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:47 a.m. CST

    Clear eyes, full hearts...

    by Flippadippa

    ..can't lose OBL.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:53 a.m. CST

    @justmyluck - Yes I totally agree with you...

    by kenchun24

    That Pakistani Prime Minister Bhutto was assassinated because she let out the secret of the Bin Laden Boogeyman having passed away years ago. What happened on May 1st 2011 and what Hollywood will serve the public in a theater near you is folly.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 1:16 a.m. CST

    @jbr/kai_mah'gra - Definition of conspiracy...

    by kenchun24

    The denotation (the literal meaning) of “conspiracy” is an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons. Under the United States Code (Annotated) -18 USCA section 371- to be involved in a “conspiracy” is a crime under federal law separate from the actual crime you are planning on committing. Yet somehow to the general public who don’t read dictionaries, the word "conspiracy” has taken on the connotation to mean something kooky, or crazy, to be dismissed with ease. It is fact (not conspiracy) that the mostly unknown practice of “Fractional Reserve Banking” begat a “Faux Reality“ among the American populace in the last 100 years since the banking families had their meeting on *Jekyll Island in November of 1910. Now as the definition states, a conspiracy is nothing more than an intentional crime and a created plausible deniability. Plausible deniability is simply a palatable euphemism created by the liars to provide an excuse for their lying. The mega-wealthy monarch/monopolists have created a Faux Democracy supported by Faux Education and Faux Media. You cannot truly understand the inner-connectivity, and the REALITY of conspiracy, until you understand the *fraudulent banking system. Another insider, writer George Orwell wrote about the warping of language. The elites have slowly warped the meaning that society has attached to certain “words”, that it’s true meaning would be dangerous to the elite if actually understood by the general public. Which of course we all know the general publics attention span is that of a 10 year old jacked up on Mountain Dew. Orwell and Aldous Huxley (author of Brave New World) shared the same sentiment personally and in their most acclaimed works 1984 and Brave New World respectively. If you look at the obvious repetitive patterns involving economical, geopolitical and militaristic decisions our so called “leaders” have been making and said path we have allowed them to lead us down, it’s quite clear to those with eyes that see that these are not theories anymore, but more like conspiracy facts. *The Creature From Jekyll Island, authored by G. Edward Griffin And yes,man did land and walk on the moon...Stanley Kubrick directed the whole thing. (that was a joke BTW...not really haha!)

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 1:26 a.m. CST

    Tarantino is releasing Inglorious Blacksterds this year!

    by Mel

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 1:34 a.m. CST

    Anyone who thinks Osama is still alive is an idiot.

    by AshokForgiven

    Please... Obama LIED about killing Osama, along with Hillary and the entire US military? Geez there are some stupid people out there. Heck, I voted for McCain Palin and am a huge TEA Party supporter, and I even admit that the Obama administration got Bin Laden. It's the one thing I actually support and Im a staunch Republican.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 1:43 a.m. CST

    Will they make the prequel to this as well??

    by MajorFrontbum

    Which highlights the fact that the Bin Laden family are very well acquainted with the Bush family, or doesn't that fit in with the image they're trying to portray?

  • *Peter Galison, a Harvard professor of the history of science and physics, has calculated that since the late 1970s the US may have produced a trillion pages of classified info.* http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/DC-Decoder/2010/1221/WikiLeaks-trove-is-a-mere-drop-in-ocean-of-US-classified-documents

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 1:45 a.m. CST

    *probable odds*

    by justmyluck

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 2:04 a.m. CST

    I have heard the reason why Osama was taken out when he was.

    by CimmerianWarrior

    He was dying from diabetes and had already had several toes amputated. The US government knew he was close to death. They had been watching that area, that exact compound for 7 years. When Osama was about to die, they killed him so it would look good on Obama. It failed. His ratings still went down. This whole thing is a disgrace. There was no glory or honor or revenge in this. It was the killing of a half dead cripple. Big Deal. He would have died in a week anyway, why even bother? POLL NUMBERS BABY!!!

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 2:24 a.m. CST

    @ashokforgiven - The debate wasn't about Tim Osman being dead...

    by kenchun24

    It was about him being killed on May 1st 2011 by Seal Team 6.CIA asset Tim Osman has been pronounced dead 9 different times. Renal failure and constant kidney dialysis treatments aside (which gives most folk 3-5 years life expectancy post diagnosis) Tim Osman was not able to orchestrate a global jihad with his limited resources while running around the Afghan mountains for 10 years (with kidney failure) AND evading the most technologically advanced military in the world. He played his part over the years for the CIA and the Oil-garchy families (Bush) and his death (the May 1st 2011 death) was a ruse for several reasons.The most popular reason being to spike Obama's re-election. When Team America killed him however it was marked as the "official" death of Tim Osman.No trial for his supposed crimes,just out to sea with the fishes mafia style.Yeah right.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 2:53 a.m. CST

    What a load of absolute BOLLOCKS!

    by Baron Von Penguin

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 4:28 a.m. CST

    jrb

    by Ace of Wands

    One current and one former U.S. official said that the dead included 25 Navy SEALs from SEAL Team Six, the unit that carried out the raid in Pakistan in May that killed bin Laden. They were being flown by a crew of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because families are still being notified.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 4:34 a.m. CST

    jrb

    by Ace of Wands

    this site is fucked up when it comes to using quotation marks: the above piece was from a news report at the time of the crash/shoot down and was meant to be inserted in the text that follows now: regarding exposing Obama for possible lies about the operation that killed Bin Laden, maybe you didn't note this little incident, a helicopter crash/shoot down from August last year where it was reported that: ****Insert above text here!!*** Somebody covering their tracks? As a talbacker above said it is very likely that Bin Laden had been dead for some time; he had kidney problems and was undergoing dialysis in a hospital in Dubai when he was visited, not detained, by the CIA station chief (before 9/11, yes, but after the Kenyan Embassy bombing and the USS Cole attack both of which Bin Laden was cited for; the FBI never actually cited Bin Laden for 9/11 because, in their words, not mine, there was a "lack of evidence"). Bin Laden being dead for years- and Bhuto did mention this, on air- would certainly cause a problem for the Americans to display his bullet riddled corpse hence the burial at sea, not on land where there would be the possibility of exhumation and identification. Now it is up to you if you wish to believe the guff that the American administration comes out with but I would suggest to you that there is a possible and plausible different story at play in the world. Of course the American Government would never lie to you: there was no USS Maine incident, no USS Liberty incident and the Gulf of Tonkin affair was exactly as the reported at the time.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 5:03 a.m. CST

    maxcherry

    by Ace of Wands

    well, I just stated what are facts. I never fully said how I inertpret those facts just that- I won't use those fucking quotation marks- there is a POSSIBLE and PLAUSIBLE other story. It seems to me that your delusion is that you won't even consider anything other than what the US Govt spoon feeds you. Now, if you were to look into all the evidence for both versions of the story being told, and then come back and state that you still believe what the American Admistration is telling you I'd have a little more respect for your stance but not one iota more for your level of intelligence.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 5:15 a.m. CST

    I love how everything is political with some folks

    by FlandersBum

    Instead of talking about a movie based on real life events and the heroic people involved in them, we start jabbing about crazy conspiracy theories and how they impact a sitting president's poll numbers. Thankfully these comments only represent a tiny niche of folks in this country, otherwise we'd be screwed as a nation.

  • *Instead of talking about a movie based on real life events and the heroic people involved in them* What's your source on that — government-issued press materials juiced-up into headlines by media outlets? Yes, that's your source. *Thankfully these comments only represent a tiny niche of folks in this country.* Source, again — your asshat?

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 5:31 a.m. CST

    flandersbum

    by Ace of Wands

    and I love how everthing is just as the media- they wouldn't lie!-tells it, for some folks. What if this movie isn't based on the truth involving heroic indviduals? Isn't that worth commenting on? Sure, this is a movie site so, yes, lets stick to just talking movies, I'll go along with that...as long as the movies aren't trying to say their slice of (sometimes) entertaining fiction is in any way, shape, or form a semblance of the truth. If that is their standpoint, though, then I'll feel free to comment, thank you very much. By the way, even if the operation wemt down exactly as the Obama administration and those repeaters in the media said it did, what on earth is heroic about gunning down an unarmed individual who was so scared he was hiding behind his wife (from the Marine's own reports). I also loved the way that the Marines made the identification of Bin Laden; they got a Marine that was the same height as the reported height of Bin Laden to lie down next to his body and see if they matched (Marine's own reports again). Love that US Military High Tech.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 6:38 a.m. CST

    I don't think anybody outside USA believes this bollocks

    by Suskis

    Just because someone tells us Obama has been killed, we should believe him? Where is the body? DNA? This was even more lousy than 11/9. Insulting the rest of the world with this kind of propaganda won't do USA any good.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 6:44 a.m. CST

    Another slice of fiction

    by papabendi

    masquerading as fact. Bigelow is sure becoming quite the cheer leader for the military industrial complex. Next up; Invasion Iran!

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 6:53 a.m. CST

    I'll believe the moon landings before I believe this bullshit

    by alexander

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 6:56 a.m. CST

    Anyone get seriously annoyed when someone calls it 9-1-1?

    by tangcameo

    It's 9-11 you pricks! Nothing happened on January 9th 2001! And it had nothing to do with William Shatner!

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 7:41 a.m. CST

    Mark Strong

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    like Fassbender should be in everything that is decent, a brilliant actor

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 7:42 a.m. CST

    Joel Edgerton also a very good actor

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    and good to see him getting roles

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 7:49 a.m. CST

    I imagine Renner will do a cameo...

    by Bill Clay

    After all, he is a "star" now and has a very busy schedule. He'll probably be a military type watching the raid on a monitor in the Oval office with the Prez.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 7:55 a.m. CST

    What a bunch of Morons occupy this site...

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    ....a few years ago it used be that you'd visit this place and find a sprinkling of truly idiotic nincompoops - mostly trolls. Now it seems like the place is overrun by them. 9/11 was not an inside job you stupid dicks. And Osama bin Laden is DEAD. Killed by this president and this administration's orders. Stop making yourselves look like complete buffoons trying to come up with dumbass conspiracy theories just to justify your not having to give Obama credit for finally succeed where Bush and over $2 Trillion couldn't succeed. Geeeez. If it was a Republican president when Osama was killed you guys would be calling for him to go on Mount Rushmore like yesterday. Grow a brain cell or 2 and evolve to catch up with the rest of humanity.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 8:02 a.m. CST

    @justmyluck, I have to apologize to you....

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    ...you're even more stupid and idiotic that I first thought you were. You set the baseline for the lowest IQ point in the general population. Without you we wouldn't know there was a bottom. And for that you deserve not our scorn, but our gratitude. I would tell you to grow a brain, but it would probably rot and die or possibly just run away after a week of your stupidity. I would tell you to get a brain transplant instead, but it's highly unlikely we could find a donor for a brain that would not reject such a Moronic host. So we're left with having to keep you around as someone or something to point to when we want to measure just how stupid a person is.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 8:19 a.m. CST

    kai_mah'gra

    by Ace of Wands

    I'm neither a Republican, Democrat or even an American so I've no political axe to grind regarding Obama or Bush(es). I like the way that you emphasise that Bin Laden was killed by an operation launched by the Obama administration without a single shred of supportive evidence- no body, no DNA sample, no photographs, no video recording- other than some Marines saying that they did it (and it seems that many if not all of those who took part in the operation are now dead after their helicopter was apparently shot down) and Obama saying that Bin Laden was dead. Fuck!, don't ever become a public defender because with your cunning grasp of legal, admissable evidence your client wouldn't stand a chance. There is, however, plenty of counter evidence suggesting that Bin Laden was possibly already dead but if not was not in the compound and had been let escape by the Americans on several occasions (one Royal Marine officer was rotated home early from Afghanistan for crticising the Americans because they ordered the Royal Marines not to cover an escape route in the Tora Bora mountains which let Bin Laden and his entourage slip out of there and possibly to Pakistan: the Americans reasoning for ordering the Royal Marines not to engage?; the weather was too severe!!. These Marines train in the Arctic, for fucks sake!). My take is that Bin Laden has been dead for some time but was a CIA asset anyway; he used the code name Tim Osman or Ossman when travelling in the United States. Although already dead his fiction as the Al Qaeda mastermind was usefull for the US Government but was becoming untenable and ridiculous (many peopole were beginning to wonder why America's vaunted technology and elite soldiers couldn't find him when strangers on holiday in Pakistan were reporting his whereabouts to the British Embassy, British newspapers and British security services:fact.). So it was time for him to go before the jig was up and, to kill two birds with one stone, was timed to give Obama a bounce in the polls. If this is to much for your miniscule viewpoint to take in I suggest a diet of education on the subject rather than mainlining Fox's fair and balanced take. Might save you some ridicule at a later point.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 8:49 a.m. CST

    kai_mah'gra

    by John Baker

    You're trying so hard it's starting to border on self parody. Talkbackers calling for a Republican to be added to Mount Rushmore? Are you serious? Ever read a Sarah Palin Talkback here? The vitriol is amazing. Things like: That cunt should die in a fire! etc. etc. You think you're a blue beacon of reason in an ocean of red fools? Exactly HOW fucked in the head are you? If you're going to attack the people here at least get your facts straight. Feel free to respond with another overlong dramatic attempt at insulting anyone who disagrees with you. It's helping your argument so very much.

  • in history- "we got him!"- and then no more news out of Japan on any major network- poof! Gone! All better now. Story over. Oh what's that? Glowing? I'm glowing? Really?! Give me a mirror. Cool check it out guys I'm glowing!

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 9:01 a.m. CST

    kai_mah'gra:

    by UltraTron

    You got such a solid grasp of politics that it is literally chilling.. How sarcastic I was just being. You seem to have your ass completely engulfing your head and torso.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 9:38 a.m. CST

    @ace of wands

    by TallanDagwood

    Please forgive me for intruding upon your debate with another talkbacker, but I wanted to point out some factual errors in your post. There was plenty of evidence -Body, DNA, photos and video, of Bin Ladens death. This evidence (outside of the body itself- which was videotaped being disposed of at sea) was presented to any and all congressional representatives from both parties who sat on the intelligence committees. It was also offered to a select few congressional representatives of both parties who had a special interest. i.e had been part of oversight committees in the past, or who had high enough profiles that their word would not be disputed. And it was (rumored) to have been shown to select allies. Few actually accepted the offer, because of the purported gruesome nature of the evidence. Still, those that did -both Republicans who would have no reason to protect the Obama administration, and Democrats, came away totally convinced. The DNA evidence came from a close family member who lives in the United States. And finally, Al Qaida itself would have no reason whatsover to protect the administration if it was lying. In fact the Al Qaida number two man admitted that The United States had killed Bin Laden - at the time they said they did - not before. Of course there will still be people who will never believe he was killed when this government said he was. They need to see a body - well when Saddam's sons where killed and the bodies shown they were so bloated that quite a few did not believe it was them because the had employed body doubles. When Qaddafi was caught and killed on tape, quite a few did not believe it was him but a body double instead. There was and is absolutely no way that the United States could prove to everyone that Bin Laden was killed - and killed during the raid, because someone would always raise an objection. You can not satisfy everyone - therefore you do not even try. Why do I believe that Bin Laden was killed when this government said he was? Outside of the reasons stated above (bi partisan congressional viewing of photographs), there are far too many enemies of this country and administration within and without who could destroy the credibility of this government if it was indeed caught lying. One last thing. The fact that a significant number of people in this country would actually believe that President Obama was not born in the United States - until his long-form birth certificate evidence was presented, and yet there is no such outcry of disbelief about Bin Laden death at the hands of the Seal team 6, speaks volumes.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 10:08 a.m. CST

    quote from carl sagan

    by robamenta

    extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Skeptics

    by Jeff

    People appear to be skeptical of things that match their political ideology. That's what bothers me. If this all happened when bush was president, all of these internet "researchers" would be singing a different tune. Example: votes counted in Florida. If all you do is search for proofof what you believe then that isn't conspiracy research. It's political masterbation.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 11:14 a.m. CST

    tallandagwood

    by Ace of Wands

    none of the evidence that you have cited was put into the public domain and I find the argument about the gruesome nature of the photographs a little disingenuous; it's human nature to be both repelled and intrigued by such information and the US has been very quick to publish in the mainstream press such gruesome photos before, such as with Saddam's sons.And they were a side issue, not the mastermind behind the worst act of terrorism ever. Also, by the Marines own reports, Bin Laden was shot in the face which, in itself, could make positive identification difficult. The DNA was not released for idependent review and is easily faked anyway so not sure why I mentioned it as evidence in the first place, really. No videotape of Bin Laden's body on the ship and the burial at sea- aside from a wrapped form that could be anyone or anything- has been released to the public domain. This from an administration that is quite happy to release photographs of the shocked reaction of Obama, Clinton et al from the situation room where they were watching...nothing...as the video feed went down during the actual operation. Wonder what the shocked reactions were in response to then? And ask yourself, why was the body buried at sea? Surely you don't believe the religious reasons that the military gave. The one thing that it did do was get rid of evidence that, may, call into question the official story. Let me put this straight; I don't know the truth of the operation to kill Bin Laden and whether it was real or not but there is enough that is screwy and doesn't read correctly to bring the official story into doubt, for me. Personally I think that the operation was there to tie up loose ends and try and bury lies that began on September the 11th 2001 and, it seems, that this has pretty much suceeded for a lot of people

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 11:25 a.m. CST

    I hope they focus on the SEAL TEAM 6 wives

    by Mace Tofu

    cheating on them with their brothers. Plus half the movie should be about the team not sleeping at night because they feel so guilty about what they did. It should end with all the members going to an anti war rally in DC. The end credits could be the families singing "Give peace a chance". I'll skip this one and catch the real SEALs in ACT OF VALOR

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 11:39 a.m. CST

    One of the great everyman actors out there.

    by Randy

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:10 p.m. CST

    @ace of wands

    by TallanDagwood

    Would you have believed any evidence placed into public domain? For some people (and I am not accusing you of being one of those),there is no such thing as incontrovertible proof or incontrovertible evidence. The photos released of Saddams sons - and there was some disbelief it was actually them, had no potential to incite dangerous reprisals. Would I have preferred that a body and photos, gruesome or not be made public? I suppose so. But it would make no difference to those who have a vested interest in seeing a conspiracy in everything. They would just dismiss it as a body double. Yes, it risks the same disbelief that quite a few had about the lack of a body after Hitlers death - if you believe he actually died back then that is. So be it. As for the burial at sea, I think it was done for the same cold-blooded and calculated reason that Bin Laden was killed instead of brought back for trial -one that would have cost millions and produced a media circus, not to mention being potentially very dangerous, it was more expedient to do so. If Bin Laden had put to death on American soil, and then buried in secret, he still would be buried in the United States. It is not too much of a stretch to say that some interests would find a way- regardless of where Bin laden was actually buried, to create a symbolic place for his burial that would serve as a rallying point. Just let them try that in an ocean. Finally, the one indisputable piece of evidence is that Al Qaida itself acknowledges his death on the date the United States claimed he was killed. They could have easily said that Bin Laden had died months or years earlier - or that he was still alive even. But they did not. They said - their number two man said, he was killed when the United States raided Abbottabad. The potential to ruin the United States credibility -as well as being a huge recruitment tool, would not have been wasted if they could have pulled it off. They still get the benefit of recruitment, but not the bonanza it would have been to discredit the United States along the way.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:23 p.m. CST

    gallows

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    okay then. You're an idiot. How's that for a concise, to-the-point response? And since you like them so small and short (the better for your 2 brain cells to deal with), here's another: Go fuck yourself. And take justmyluck with you.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:31 p.m. CST

    ace of wands

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    I don't need a shred of evidence. I just need a functioning brain - somthing you ought to consider trying for size sometime. But just for fun, I'll play your stupidity game. I'll prove to you that Osama bin Laden was killed by the Obama administration as soon as you prove to me he wasn't. Why not enthrall us (and dare I say, entertain us) with all that "plenty of counter evidence suggesting that Bin Laden was possibly already dead...." and the rest of that bullshit you typed after that? After all, there is "plenty of evidence", isn't there? The burden of proof is on YOU, you stupid fuck, not on me. You're the one doubting the reality, so the burden is on you to prove it isn't so. I don't have to prove anything other than just how ridiculous and stupid your so-called evidence is - assuming you're actually able to provide it, and subsequently as soon as you do. Until then Shut the euck up, and spare me your "career advice" I would concentrate on getting a brain implant if I were you and stay away from telling other people what may or may not save them ridicule (something I can only imagine you're so well familiar with) I mean, "Tim Osman"??!?!?!? Are you fucking kidding me? Idiot.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:34 p.m. CST

    ultratron

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    You would know. You are after all, the resident expert of head-in-ass syndrome. So much so, that I'm amazed you're able to separate your food from your shit when you open your mouth. I would tell you to go fuck yourself up your ass, but clearly it's occupied at the moment. So carry on.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:35 p.m. CST

    More military propaganda eh?

    by DoctorWho?

    Oh! wrong movie. This is the 'good' military I guess.

  • In other words, you don't know fuck shit. You stupid moron. Go find yourself a tin foil hat and spare the rest of us your inane "theories", if we can even call them that.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:39 p.m. CST

    by Ace of Wands

    re Al Qaeda admitting that Bin Laden was killed when the US said he was, exactly; so why didn't they deny it. They had no currency in admitting it and would have at least muddied waters by claiming that he was already dead or still alive. I'm puzzled as to why they didn't at least use that gambit regardless of the truth of the matter. Outside of the posibility that they are still getting their instructions from the CIA via the ISI as has been suspected. I do think that you are correct that the US did not want Bin Laden on trial for 9/11. Remember that Bin Laden was on FBI's public enemy No1 list but not for 9/11 because, by their own admission, there wasn't enough evidence to prove that he was behind it. Imagine that, Bin Laden on trial for 9/11 and he walks, a free man. That WOULD have been one huge clusterfuck and could not be allowed to happen. As I've stated I'm of the belief that Bin Laden died many years ago and was a CIA asset anyway- he certainly was during the Afghan war against the Russians- but it is only a belief because I have no absolute proof just some oddities and inconsistencies in the official US Govt story but enough of them to convince me that the official story of just about everything connected to 9/11 and the aftermath is wrong and if, as I think, Bin Laden was the made up bogeyman at the start of the 9/11 story I can only come to the conclusion that his death at the end of the story is similarly made up.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 12:40 p.m. CST

    tallandagwood

    by Ace of Wands

    sorry, post above should have your name in it rather than No Subject

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 1:07 p.m. CST

    tallandagwood

    by Ace of Wands

    by the way, I also find the place where Bin Laden was killed to be an oddity. Abbottabad. Named after and founded by a British Army officer during the time of the British Raj. Bin Laden hides out in a place that is the very symbol of the Western Imperialism that he vehemently opposes?. Funny that.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 1:13 p.m. CST

    ace of wands

    by TallanDagwood

    I see. Thank you for the courtesy of a response.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 1:38 p.m. CST

    They should

    by PlayerHater_of_the_year

    get the same screenwriter who created the actual Bin Laden/Seal Team 6 script. I'm sure there's a copy floating around the Whitehouse somewhere.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 2:04 p.m. CST

    Jessica Chastain is the most over rated actress I've ever seen

    by torontoxic

    If they throw in a female special forces member into this it will be such a joke.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 2:10 p.m. CST

    they aren't 9/11 truthers... they are Osama Bin Ladin supporters

    by antonphd

    they want proof that Osama is dead because he's their Jesus Christ

  • ...and whether Tim Osman was killed on May 1st 2011 by Red Cell or had died years earlier due to renal failure and kidney disease your staunch belief in the Right/Left political parties discounts you as an intelligently informed individual. The Elephant and The Mule are the same political animal.Repubs and Dems are ONE oligarchal party,not seperate democratic parties. Just look at how many Republican and Democratic administrations the war mongers Zbigniew Brezinski (who just so happened to assist Osman/Taliban during the Russia Afghan war) and Henry Kissinger have served under.It did not matter which President got elected under the Conservative/Neo-Con or Democratic/Liberal card. These two have been behind the scenes of almost every administration continually pulling the strings,"advising" puppet Presidents global pre-texts for a continued move towards imperialistic hegemony. hegemony Definition he·gem·o·ny[ hə jémmənee ]NOUN 1. authority or control: control or dominating influence by one person or group, especially by one political group over society or one nation over others I offer a few clips form writer/historian Webster Tarpley to hopefully spark some interest in maybe expanding your world view in regards to Dems vs. Repubs/Obama vs. Osama etc... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2wZIQW7P98 http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=CW6StitWJD4&feature=endscreen Having (since I was able to vote) voted for previous Dems - Clinton/Gore/Kerry and Obama in 2008 based off of my parents political beliefs I have since changed any political stance.I personally despise both parties and wish we had a true democracy and a party to represent the people. I've been leaning towards Ron Paul as it is clear his campaign funding has been coming from mainly active and retired US military who are tired of these occupations (not "wars on terrorism").Where as Obama/Romney are still getting funding from the corrupt big banks/corporate interests that love big government and of course,love the continued "war" racket. If you look at the obvious repetitive patterns involving economical, geopolitical and militaristic decisions our so called “leaders” have been making and the path we have allowed them to lead us down, it’s quite clear to those with eyes that see that these are not theories anymore, but more like conspiracy facts.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 2:24 p.m. CST

    kenchun24

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    You wouldn't know intelligence if it crawled up that fat moronic ass of yours and slapped you in that vacuous empty space that sits where a functioning brain is supposed to be. You're a nutjob - I would say mostly harmless, but it would seem like your type of stupidity is either contagious if not most certainly genetic. Either way, you're a major pollutant to the human gene pool and the sooner Morons like you are bred out of the species, the better for all humanity. You, tallandagwood, ace of wands, ultratron, gallows, and justmyluck (all quite possibly the same person using that same "Tim Osman" nomenclature shit) should find the nearest vat of boiling oil jump in it, and then run to the nearest junkyard and find a barbed-wire wrapped dildo dipped in Sulfuric acid and lit on fire and use it to fuck your collective selves up your stupid collective asses until you've sanitized those idiot genes out of existence. And a Ron Paul supporter to boot. Color me shocked. Idiot.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 3 p.m. CST

    Holy shitballs...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...once again, it looks like Nutter Town has come to AICN. My favorite leap in logic here is the claim that Bhutto was assassinated because she mentioned one of the alleged deaths of Bin Laden in 2001. Does anyone else see the hypocrisy of this claim? EVIDENCE PLEASE!

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 3:19 p.m. CST

    No. Cowards torture people.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

  • Instead namecalling and assumptions of my physical/intelligence profile backed up by descriptions of weird torture scenarios speaks volumes about what kind of human being you are and what you believe in. No I don't know any of the other posters.I don't know you either.Everybody is tough behind a keyboard and moniter.So you could be a real masochist or a bored 15 year old.My view just so happens to be along the same line as some critical thinking folk here on AICN who question the continuing war racket propped up by big government and propagandized by Hollywood. For what it's worth I am 6' - 235lbs 32 year old production communications manager for Quixote Studios in Los Angeles CA.Have great friends and family and had a pretty normal upbringing in Japan/Hawaii/Seattle as my father is retired Navy.I am just concerned with what has been going on with the whole petrol chemical pharmaceutical military industrial transnational corporate fascist elite agenda that is really easy to see through now. And was hoping to have a conversation about said issues.But it's cool,we have different points of view and that is a good thing to be able to exercise that freedom.Hope we always have that right.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Will they show st6 getting their asses kicked afterwards

    by alienindisguise

    or just do some sappy heroic thank you after it fades to black? and also, torture serves as a warning and has been one of the most effective tools during times of war. It's not cowardly to send a message of "don't fuck with us" That's what wins wars but the us hasn't known victory since ww2.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 4:04 p.m. CST

    bin Laden's bad Photoshop death pic: http://youtu.be/sanAt4NbCYw

    by GARY MAKIN

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Ugh. So tired of this film genre.

    by BrashHulk

    Which, no matter the spin they try to put on it, winds up as fictionalized redneck propaganda. But I'm sure it'll make plenty of money from the hordes of mouth-breathing chest-thumpers who stick the Confederate flag behind the gun rack in the back window of their Ford F150. Y'know, the ones who scream "MURRRICA, LOVE IT ER LEAVE IT" in a PBR haze in the face of people who say anything critical about 'MURRICA, while at the same time bitching loudly about the policies that they themselves don't agree with. It's a great time in this country to be a idiotic hypocrite.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 4:38 p.m. CST

    kenchun24

    by Kai_Mah'gra

    Everybody is 6' - 235lbs worth of pure tough guy muscle behind a keyboard and moniter.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 4:53 p.m. CST

    Tallandagwood...

    by Finn

    Your reasoning on your posts makes a lot of sense to me. And I agree, those that want to find conspiracy will always find a way to to see it no matter what facts present themselves.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 5 p.m. CST

    kai_mah'gra

    by Ace of Wands

    kenchun states some facts mixed in with some critical thinking- which can be agreed with or disagreed with, depending upon ones own point of view- and what you come out with is: ...You're a nutjob... ...You wouldn't know intelligence if it crawled up that fat moronic ass of yours... ...your type of stupidity is either contagious if not most certainly genetic... ...you're a major pollutant to the human gene pool... Nice, well reasoned and not at all infantile. I also liked this one: ...You, tallandagwood, ace of wands, ultratron, gallows, and justmyluck (all quite possibly the same person using that same "Tim Osman" nomenclature shit) should find the nearest vat of boiling oil jump in it... I can only think that because tallandagwood is not DIRECTLY supporting your argument by accusing those he is in discussion with whose viewpoint- or at least mine- he does not share, as being scum or complete idiots that you feel that you have to lump him/her in with all those others that you describe as nutjobs. So, we've already established that intelligence isn't really one of your strong points; now comprehension of the written word is also in doubt.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 5:08 p.m. CST

    kai_mah'gra

    by Ace of Wands

    and you are quite correct, I don't know fuck shit. I suspect fuck shit, I think that there might have been some fuck shit, I even think that is likely that there WAS some fuck shit but, yes, I wasn't there, I'm not in US Government or some secret cabal thereof or in a heroic or non heroic Seal Team so I don't KNOW fuck shit. And neither do you.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 5:26 p.m. CST

    finngodo

    by Ace of Wands

    people can find a cosnspiracy in anything, sure, but the obverse is also true; people are often afraid to step outside their comfort zone and see that there IS a cospiracy. These conspiracy theories which can now be considered as conspiracy facts can be observed down through history: Julius Caesar Catline Guy Fawkes Operation Susanah The plot to Kill DeGaulle Tuskegee and other secret medical experiments carried out by the US Government on its population. These are all well documented and known as historical facts, so don't you think it a little odd that there are NO conspiracies being carried out by any Governments in the World RIGHT NOW, in these times that we live. Or is the US Government, that altruistic body that isn't at all in bed with big business/banks/big pharma, the ONLY Administrative Body not carrying out any conspiracies against anybody because that would be just so fucking wrong.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 5:48 p.m. CST

    wow from movies to political rants to conspiracy theories

    by millermeusa

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Hurt Locker was such absolute crap.

    by kevred

    I watched it fully expecting, and hoping, to see a good film. What I got instead was a horrid pile of melodramatic cliches and poorly-acted, poorly-written, poorly-shot tripe. It was more like a goddamned episode of CSI:Miami than anything resembling a good film. Most absurd Best Picture I've ever seen. Complete and utter rubbish.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 6:32 p.m. CST

    @ace of wands, finngodo

    by TallanDagwood

    finngodo, thank you for the compliment. ace of wands, there are conspiracies with a little c and Conspiracies with a capital C - neither of which should be confused with covert operations that most governments carry out at some time or another. You alluded to a possible conspiracy involving Al Qaida and elements of the United States government with regards to 9/11. That would be a Conspiracy with a capital C. People will believe what they will, and I have no desire to get into a debate regarding conspiracy theories that I quite frankly find ludicrous. However, I will say this. No such possible conspiracy could exist without the participation of hundreds or even thousands of people -which is why the moon landing conspiracy theorists are so laughable. People will talk - especially when money is to be made, multiply the possibilities of that by hundreds or even thousands of people and you no longer have a conspiracy. Conspiracies work only when the amount of people involved are kept to a bare minimum. To address the 9/11 theory, forget the amount of people who may be involved and focus simply on this: Since 2001 the United States government has made killing Al Qaida leadership - the very same leadership it would have been necessary to conspire with if said conspiracy actually took place, it's number one and highly visible, and provable - mission. There can be no dispute the the United States government actually killed the the high ranking Al Qaida members it said it did. So, if there was indeed a conspiracy, what possible sense or purpose would it serve for the then leadership of Al Qaida - as they where being hunted down and killed, to remain silent? It would make none at all. I have heard no members of Al Qaida leadership or rank and file, claim any such link. The only people who do make such a claim are those who see conspiracies in everything - and they will never be convinced otherwise.

  • I bet they also believe the moon-landing footage was done inside a Hollywood studio. I love conspiracy theories in movies, novels, but in real life, they are near impossible to sustain.

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 9:34 p.m. CST

    You conspiracy theory guys need to lay down the bong pipe

    by kidicarus

    Why are you guys always the semi-smart kids who never went to college because they were too lazy, work at some shitty job and get all of their knowledge about the world off internet blogs and badly edited Youtube videos?

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 9:56 p.m. CST

    conspiracy theorists are just socially retarded people

    by antonphd

    they delude themselves into believing that the reason why everyone doesn't accept the conspiracy theory is because everyone is a blind stupid sheep... instead of accepting the fact that everyone doesn't accept the conspiracy theory because it's obviously wrong 1 + 2 = 4 wrong

  • Feb. 18, 2012, 10:35 p.m. CST

    I just hope she hires a military advisor on this one...

    by ravenink

    because the hurt locker was painful for me to watch at times. A whole platoon gets fired on by an unseen sniper and NOBODY goes prone or seeks cover! I wanted to throw something at the screen. They could've hired an 18 year old fresh out of basic who could've told them that was VERY inaccurate.

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Most conspiracy theorists are mentally ill.

    by Chief Joseph

    I know one of them. He's also schizophrenic. His friends and family are also mentally ill and they also believe in these conspiracies as part of their paranoia. Believe me, I've heard it all. Including how the CIA has scanners that can get into your head and read your mind. You can't argue with these kinds of people; they just won't listen. They are always right and you are just a "sheeple". The only thing you can do is tell them to shut the fuck up and get out of your way.

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 1:32 a.m. CST

    Happy sock puppet day, everyone.

    by justmyluck

  • She is not a good director by any stretch of the imagination. Her beating out JC for Avatar was the biggest intentional political snub that just absolutely hurt the Academys credibility. She can't direct her way out of a nut-sack.

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 4:20 a.m. CST

    tallandagwood

    by Ace of Wands

    if you don't wish to take part in discussions whose subject matter you find ridiculous perhaps, then, you shouldn't have jumped into that discussion in the first place; was it your conceit that you knew more about the subject than those proposing the discussion did that drove that input? You still seem to be foisting that attitude. I've said several times that I don't KNOW what happened on 9/11 and during the operation to kill Bin Laden but that I certainly do not believe the official story because there are too many inconsistencies to it, to a point where the sum is more than the total parts. Guess what, you don't KNOW what happened on those occasions either but I've resisted the impulse to call your notions of what is the truth silly or ludicrous because I accept that we have different views even though, I think, we have both looked at it with a similiar level of intelligence. Al Qaeda itself IS a nonsense though; it didn't even name itself, that name- The (Data)Base- was given to it by the CIA when it was merely a group of individuals that they had interest in, mainly connected with the Mujahideen who were fighting Russian occupation of Afghanistan (remember when the Taliban were the good guys!). I strongly suggest that you watch a documentary by Adam Curtis called The Power Of Nightmares before you espouse any knowledge of Al Qaeda or how it actually came into being. You also seem to have misunderstood the meaning of the word conspiracy; hundreds or thousands of people can be involved in a conspiracy, in fact as long as there are two or more people involved in it and it is unlawful then it IS a conspiracy (the official story, if it were true, is also a conspiracy theory; it is the theory that 19 Arab hijackers took over four airplanes with the intent to destroy American symbols of power and that the mastermind behind it all was Osama Bin Laden: it is still a theory because it has never been proved evidentially in a court of law). However I think that what you are suggesting with your hundreds/thousands example is that with that many people involved, information would have leaked, at the time, or by now. Personally I think that you are way overestimating the amount of people that would have to be involved to plan the operation. Once it was triggered then certain in place scenarios would simply have played out naturally and there is some debate within the circles of those that believe it was an inside job as to whether it was LIHOP or MIHOP Information, though, did leak at the time and guess who quashed that information, yeah, the FBI; going so far as to fire or sideline indviduals who had picked up on this intel and passed it on to their superiors as SOP. We never hear from the rank and file of Al Qaeda because, basically, there aren't any. They are not some massive army of terrorists but a much more scattered, loose afiliation of, in many cases, small diasaffected groups or individuals. As said earlier, there was and is no Al Qaeda other than it being a list of CIA interests (and ask yourself, why would this pro Islam, pro Caliphate, US hating group allow itself to operate under the name given to it by the Great Satan?). So all we do hear from is the supposed leadership of this nebulous outfit and they have gone as far as not just to claim responsibility for 9/11 (although, interestingly Bin Laden did not claim that he and Al Qaeda were behind it; certainly not directly after the event: you may have thought that he would have crowed it from the highest mianaret) but to actually debunk any conspiracy theory that inside elements within the US Government were behind it. Calling Ahmadinejad delusional for espousing such theories. CIA via ISI, I wonder. Or just plagarism; likely.

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 6:02 a.m. CST

    Wow

    by John Baker

    kai_mah'gra quote: You, tallandagwood, ace of wands, ultratron, gallows, and justmyluck (all quite possibly the same person using that same "Tim Osman" nomenclature shit) should find the nearest vat of boiling oil jump in it... Now who's a paranoid conspiracy theorist? Please point out where I even ONCE mentioned Tim Osman or OBL. I personally believe OBL may have very well died the way the government claims. You're so rabid for an argument you forgot to keep track of where the made up shit in your head ends, and the real world begins. I may not agree with everything tallandagwood, ace of wands, ultratron, and justmyluck say... But I'd much rather discuss ANY topic with them than to try to reason with yet another condescending narcissistic pussy like yourself. Go through your little motions, write back yet another inevitable diatribe about how we're mentally deficient, and should die in whatever uninspired method of death occurs to you. When you're done making pathetic insults and fabricating outright lies the door is that way. Don't forget your meds on the way out.

  • Up is down, black is white.

  • That and a thousand other chunks of hard evidence that show something was happening that we were not privy to. Also I'm stalwart in my opinion that I just can't accept the level of bullshit thrown at us. Oh all of our jets are on the other side of the world just on that day. Oh. Oh and all of the tapes from all of the air-traffic controllers were destroyed because they have the sworn testimonials. Well. Ok. So you see it's not a conspiracy. It's just someone looking as guilty and suspicious as can possibly fucking be imagined. And there's an avalanche of such questionable bullshit surrounded this bullshit. So just understand that when you go labeling people as nut jobs when they cry foul.

  • Well I guess the Hurt Locker was made just for you.

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 8:02 a.m. CST

    Celebrate the murderous, raping US Military!

    by EdWa

    100,000+ Iraqi civilians killed by US troops The "lucky" ones got raped after watching US troops kill their parents, such as this one- www.asiantribune.com/news/2009/10/03/rape-iraqi-women-us-forces-weapon-war-photos-and-data-emerge Drone attacks are killing whole villages of innocent Bedouins in Yemen...Creating more resentment and terror recruits... US military is going to help bankrupt your fucking country, but you keep supporting it. You are as stupid as those nazi-cheering germans in the 30s. Just as stupid and on it goes rah rah go America

  • http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/05/daniel-ellsberg-secrets-can-be-kept.html

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 9:16 a.m. CST

    @ace of wands

    by TallanDagwood

    You either forgot to address or ignored the one question that makes any conspiracy between Al Qaida (or whatever you think they should be called) and the United States government (composing two different administrations spread across eleven years and representing opposing political beliefs) for all practical reasons, impossible to believe. That is: If there was indeed a conspiracy between Al Qaida (or as you alluded, some organization that was possibly created by the Intelligence services of the United States) and that of the U.S. government itself, what possible sense or purpose would it serve for the then leadership of Al Qaida - who were being hunted down and killed in full view of the world, to remain silent about any possible links with the United States government in carrying out the 9/11 attacks? If for no other reason than self-preservation, or setting the record straight, or 'muddying the waters" or a host of other possible reasons, why did not one man among the then leadership of that group who saw their comrades being hunted down and killed, not point the finger at a conspiracy or link between them and the U.S.? As for any conceit I may have shown in jumping into this discussion, and I did apologize for intruding, my error was that I did not read every post in this thread. I was responding to a specific post of yours that had no mention of 9/11 conspiracies. If you recall, it was a post of yours decrying a lack of evidence in the death of Bin Laden, there was no mention made of 9/11 conspiracies. That came later after we had exchanged multiple posts. And since I still have not read every post in this thread, it is possible you made mention of it before I initially responded.

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 9:42 a.m. CST

    I worked at the Pentagon. I was on the radio. Ultratron is making crap up.

    by Arcadian Del Sol

    There were no 'bombs' going off in the Pentagon. There were breaking news alerts in the media reporting news that wasn't vetted or checked. Thats the nature of breaking news. The very first report was that there had been an explosion at the Pentagon - which is true: because a big plane hit it and exploded. In the hours after, there were reports of a bomb at the White House, the Supreme Court, and the Halls of Congress - all of which were not true and the result of inaccurate reporters. The funny thing is that for a conspiracy to work, that means Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw were sitting in on meetings with Cheney and Bush. seriously? You can see a meeting like that happening? idiots.

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Disney is about to

    by AvadaKedavrainthearseohsnap

    be out some serious cash. Early reports is that "John Carter" is testing very poorly, and it only cost $250m to make. Oops.

  • Kennedy, 9/11, OBL, et al,. They pick and choose what to realities to hook onto. They'll leave out blaring facts just to make a stretch on a belief. They'll omit a key piece of evidence or many pieces just to make something stick for their assessment. The ones who have to worry about are the folks who know their full of shit and pandering to the confused, weak who search for answers. That clown who does his internet show, who can't think of his name but he's a fat fuck. Who makes a killing off the disenfranchised. Those are the charlatans that scar me. Alex Jones is who I"m thinking of.

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 3 p.m. CST

    Dioxholsters - you dont believe in Conspiracies?

    by Boborci

    So you don't believe that an organization that operates, according to the state department, in 73 countries run by a sick man in a cave orchestrated a successful air attack using 19 conspiratoraps within the most defended air space in the world? Are you anti-american?

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Correction: conspirators

    by Boborci

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Hope im not too late to this thread. Interesting posts here.

    by Boborci

  • Some food for thought on the illusion of the left/right paradigm... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaCemmsnNk

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Hollywood,The Pentagon and Propaganda...

    by kenchun24

    ...the symbiotic relationship between the three : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NoFTpDzQZs Being a military brat myself I remember there were yearly assemblies in my elementary school gym.This was at Clear Creek Elementary school just outside of Naval Submarine Base Bangor in Kitsap County, Washington State. The assembly was a presentation by the USMC Security Force stationed within NSB Bangor.It was a parade of Marines in different uniforms they dressed in for both tactical and ceremonial purposes.As well as guns.Lot's of guns. One Marine would fire blank rounds in the gym during the assembly.It was always a surprise as you never knew which Marine was gonna squeeze off a few rounds.Very exciting stuff for us 4-5-6th graders.(They did not allow kindergarten through 3rd grade students attend the assembly,I guess they had a conscience back in the 80's) The Self Manager program was a reward program for students who had great attendance and grades.Those who were selected got to attend the special post assembly where students got to ask questions to the USMC recruiters er..I mean presenters.Of course you also got to touch an M-60 machine gun or guille suit if you liked. My experience is of course my own but I always found it interesting how much war propaganda I myself have digested in my 32 years of existence.What was most interesting is my father being retired Navy having served in Vietnam and my mother who lost 2 brothers (both Marines) in Vietnam never really talked much about their views on war. It was always an outside influence that formed my "Team America" opinion on war growing up.Mainly movies/TV/Tom Brokaw and recruiting assemblies like the ones at my elementary school. I never joined the military and am thankful for the life my parents (both military and govt employed) were able to provide me and my sister.But my view has changed most definately after 9-11 and the continuing occupations we are involved in. I do believe in a strong defense but it seems like we only use our military might for offensive means always tying said means to profit under the guise of "freedom". I do not know everything but I do know that I agree with this statement... by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient, Major General Smedley D. Butler USMC, Retired "WAR is a racket. It always has been.It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes." So if by not buying into what Obama,Bigelow,Boal,Hollywood and The Pentagon are gonna be selling us with the live action "Team America" movie coming to a multiplex near you makes me a "conspiracy nut",so be it. I'd rather believe the statements from someone who actually served like Major General Smedley Butler as doctrine than the illusions of professional spin doctors.

  • ...and have some interesting points on this whole politics/war/propaganda/conspracy theories. Joe Rogan and comedian Joey Diaz on The Alex Jones Show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9p6jRHDZ0E

  • Short summary: — In 1962, there were American government plans to attack/invade Cuba and unseat Castro (surprise!). To gain International and public support for this, it was proposed that one or more false flags be executed. The most heinous of which, were plans to create the impression Cuba had shot down a commercial airliner or naval boat in the waters between Cuba and Florida. Submarines would release *debris* so that the clean up crews WOULDN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. One big question remains : where exactly was any human *debris* to have come from? So, wow, doesn't that sound like a completely insane *conspiracy theory*? Here are the declassified documents archived at George Washington University's National Security Archive: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/ The Wikipedia summary : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods If a false flag was concocted to attack Cuba and kill Castro, then why not one for Iraq and Saddam Hussein? Is that really an overreaching question, because between 1962 and 2001, any government false flag proposals like OPERATION NORTHWOODS would have only evolved with sophistication of deceit.

  • Feb. 19, 2012, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Justmyluck - you left out the part about

    by Boborci

    Repainting drone airliners and actually shooting them down.

  • Re: the drone-swap theory: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/ And, yes, our valiant news casting bobbleheads never seemed to bring up OPERATION NORTHWOODS — and imagine people like me treating mainstream news reporting as having questionable merit.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 5:03 a.m. CST

    Let me guess. Mark Strong plays the villain (Osama)!

    by Johan

    Fact!

  • You know, like how Ahnuld always played characters called 'Doug' or 'Frank' or something. hahaha!

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 9:35 a.m. CST

    OBL is dead, although i think the smart move...

    by gus

    would of been to tell the world he was dead...throw him into the deepest darkest prison cell you could find, hook up a car battery to his nut sack and let him tell us every thing he knows...i love that the conspiracy whack jobs think the government is capable of keeping these enormous secrets for year and years in this day and age...while i believe that there is alot we dont know, there is no way they could keep something like this a secret that could come back to bite them in the ass later...The president cant even get blown with out us knowing...

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Ungodlymamner - nobody thinks secrets can be kept nowadays

    by Boborci

    Thats why we all know what is up. It is the perpetrators of these attempted deceptions who have not caught on that they cant keep us in the dark anymore. If it is being discussed, then it obviously wasnt kept secret.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 12:03 p.m. CST

    @boborci

    by TallanDagwood

    That people are discussing conspiracy theories does not in itself lend credence to those theories being discussed. Also, if you go down that rabbit hole, then everything and I mean everything -including your very existence, must be questioned as being part of a conspiracy. You ever hear of a movie called The Matrix? Conspiracies do happen, but the thing that most people who perpetuate these theories tend to forget, is basic human motivations and interactions. By that I mean, as an example: any large scale conspiracy that requires all of its participants to keep quiet, will fail because people will talk. Lets take the moon landings as an example. If we are to believe the conspiracy theorists, it was all faked on a backlot or desert studio. Ok, so in the late 1960's - at the very height of the cold war against the the Soviet Union - we were locked in an ideological struggle as well as a proxy war (in Vietnam) against communism. The Soviets were the first in space, and desperately wanted to reach the moon first. They even orbited the moon but never landed. We did -to worldwide acclaim that included our most bitter enemy who would have loved to disprove that, and ruin our credibility, but they could not. Still, that is not enough for the conspiracy theorists. So lets examine some facts. Any such large scale deception would have needed to be carried out by hundreds it not thousands of individuals. From the set construction crew to the film crew. From mission control, to the navy carrier crews. From the mission planners in and out of the government to the media. I am sure i am missing a few crew as well. Humans like to brag about their accomplishments. Even if it is just to their friends, spouses or girlfriends or boyfriends or mistresses etc. Now, unless they were all celibate, or never married, they had interactions with the opposite sex or the same sex. Given that the divorce rate is @ 50% of married couples, it is not a stretch that some of those men did indeed get divorced. So, what would have prevented the spouses of those married men from spilling the beans once the marriage was over? And quite a few divorces end messily - this assumes that you do not believe that all of the men involved could keep a secret from their spouses and that the ones who did get a divorce, did keep quiet. Because the moon landing conspiracy industry has been going strong for at least 40 years, you would think someone would have uncovered a credible source - someone directly involved or a former spouse of someone directly involved. There would eb a helluva lot of money invlved. Or, lets say everyone was silenced. That leaves a trail if a large number of former NASA employees or their spouses or large number of former Naval personnel died under mysterious circumstances. That would leave a trail. But no. It is ludicrous. Because of human nature.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 12:19 p.m. CST

    who the hell said anything about the moon landing?

    by Boborci

    What people who "debunk" conspiracies often do is bring in an example of a ridiculous conspiracy that no one is taking about. This is the Bin Laden thread, and you went to the moon. I don't happen to believe that particular conspiracy theory. But let's talk about a large scale secret that was kept: The Manhattan Project. 100,000 people worked on it indirectly, and 10,000 people on it directly, but it was able to be kept secret from not only the public, but the VICE PRESIDENT of the United States. For years. Basically, as a matter of pure logic, those who argue against conspiracies in general without simply sticking to the meritts of each individual case usually resort to invoking laws of nature (human or otherwise) that are unproven, like more than x people can't keep a secret, which is unprovable as evidenced by the paradoxical question: Give one example of a successfully hidden conspiracy that none of us ever heard of? The question is obviously meaningless. What we can point out are dozens of conpiracies that were withheld for years. <p>Another common thing to say, as you did, is that people would've talked. PEOPLE HAVE TALKED. But then they are called nuts or fames seekers.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 12:30 p.m. CST

    It comes down to the myth of American Exceptionalism

    by Boborci

    this is a ridiculous law of nature that those who can't question their gov have imbedded in their minds. They believe the rest of the world is composed by savage half humans who act completely irrationally ans differently than the enlightened beings that are Americans. But the reality is, If you can have a coup in another country, you can have one here. If you can decieve the German people into WW2, you can decieve Americans into war.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 12:48 p.m. CST

    and finally check this out:

    by Boborci

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKcGrtiEY5Q This link shows you how Pentagon first says Obama watched the raid live, but then CIA Director Panetta says the President did not see the raid live. So, what this means is that only the guys on the ground and whoever sent them (what are we talking about here? Maybe 2 dozen people tops?) were wintesses to this. And since they "dumped" the body, that is how it will remain. Now, when the President goes on TV and says we got Bin Laden, that doesn't necessarily make him a conspirator, does it? It just makes him trusting of whatever a black ops team and their high ranking handler told him. And if you take the President's word as Vice President, does that make you a part of the conpiracy? Obviously not. You are just trusting your boss, and so on down the line.

  • This is the Bin Laden thread, and you went to the moon.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 12:57 p.m. CST

    My post got half-eaten!

    by Nerfee

    What I said was American exceptionalism always seems to pop-up in a quick-lets-change-the-subject-type context, when reasonable questions are being asked about the current system. And also that the following sentence really made my day: This is the Bin Laden thread, and you went to the moon!!!

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 12:58 p.m. CST

    by-nerfee -- ah. Indeed!

    by Boborci

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 1:12 p.m. CST

    @boborci

    by TallanDagwood

    I had already addressed the Bin Laden issue in a previous post in this thread - just a few posts above your first one. My apologies for incorrectly assuming that you had read it and for attempting to draw an analogy. I shall repost it here. But let me address the Manhattan project first though. There is a vast difference between a secret that is not meant to be kept long term and a conspiracy that by its very definition -must be kept. The manhattan project was indeed a large scale operation -but the moment the bomb dropped, the secrecy was no longer needed. However, it is a fallacy that even that secret project went unnoticed. Soviet agents infiltrated the program, not to stop it, but to gather intel - which they most certainly did. Contrast that with those who support the 9/11 conspiracy. It would be high-treason for elements of the United States government (which would have to have come from the highest levels) to be directly or indirectly involved in the deliberate bombing and killing of United States citizens (civilians) on United States soil. Punishable by death. Those are very high stakes indeed - forgetting for a moment why such a conspiracy would be needed, focus on the need to keep the hundreds or thousands quiet - forever about such. Across three administrations (two of which are politically opposite) - because the planning started under Clinton - be it solely Al Qaida, or some hybrid U.S./Al Qaida operation. In this day and age - even in the day and age of 2001. It is a fallacy to assume that Bin Laden directed the operation "from a cave" no one believes he planned or directed it. He did give his approval and possibly bankrolled it, but he was not living in a cave when he was killed - if you believe that was him. And even caves can be outfitted with a portable satellite telephone. As for U.S. airspace being impregnable, obviously it was not and is not. The hijackers did not use guns, they used knives and makeshift weapons. Have you ever flown to Martha's Vineyard? I mean pre 9/11? I did, quite often. Yes, in 2001 they had a metal detector, it was manned by an old and over worked man who was also responsible for baggage - quite often people walked around it -because he would be carrying bags outside while people milled in the waiting room. I mention this because MV is a feeder airport to Boston Logan. One of many such around the country who had lax standards. It has been greatly improved since, but nothing is ever 100% safe . The repost that was addressed to ace of wands You either forgot to address or ignored the one question that makes any conspiracy between Al Qaida (or whatever you think they should be called) and the United States government (composing three different administrations spread across eleven years and representing opposing political beliefs) for all practical reasons, impossible to believe. That is: If there was indeed a conspiracy between Al Qaida (or as you alluded, some organization that was possibly created by the Intelligence services of the United States) and that of the U.S. government itself, what possible sense or purpose would it serve for the then leadership of Al Qaida - who were being hunted down and killed in full view of the world, to remain silent about any possible links with the United States government in carrying out the 9/11 attacks? If for no other reason than self-preservation, or setting the record straight, or 'muddying the waters" or a host of other possible reasons, why did not one man among the then leadership of that group who saw their comrades being hunted down and killed, not point the finger at a conspiracy or link between them and the U.S.?

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 1:33 p.m. CST

    As I mentioned above

    by TallanDagwood

    That people are discussing conspiracy theories does not in itself lend credence to those theories being discussed.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 1:38 p.m. CST

    tallandagwood

    by Boborci

    Bin Laden himself denied responsibility for 911 and alluded to inside complicity for political ends. So that answers your question about why Al Qaeda wouldn't speak up if for nothing other than self preservation. The man of the hour himself spoke out. Also, you are the one assuming a conspiracy between the two organizations. Assuming Bin Laden chose to lie and not take responsibility for an attack for the first time ever, and assuming there were hijackers from Al Qaeda who had anything to do with 911 and assuming Al Qaeda is an organization which appears to be what many Americans believe it to be, all that is necessary to "conspire" with them is to facilitate their success without their knowledge. A great white shark is not a co-conspirator of the James Bond bad guy that drops you in a tank. You are also assuming that a wide variety of people are necessary to be "in" on the conspiracy. The Air Defense drills that were going on that day that confused NORAD and FAA as to what was real and what was an exercise included thousands of people. Not one of them had to be in on it to provide the smoke screen for only 4 jets to go "live."

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 1:43 p.m. CST

    as for the threat of treason deterring the powerful

    by Boborci

    We have Dick Cheney on TV admitting to ordering torture, which is a war crime for which we have prosecuted and executed enemies in the past. He doesn't seem to worried about our opinions of treason.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 1:52 p.m. CST

    @boborci

    by TallanDagwood

    Bin Laden most certainly did take responsibility. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/29/international/30osamaCND.html Furthermore, the then leadership of Al Qaeda also took responsibility and they were hunted down and killed in full view of the world, and yet not one of them ever even hinted at the possibility of collusion with elements of the United States government about 9/11. No self preservation, no setting the record straight, no attempt to stir conspiracy theorists. They just ran and hid and were killed.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 1:56 p.m. CST

    Didn't Osama already come back? As Osombie!?!

    by The Dude Abides

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bfD6-5Qf-cc

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Waterboarding was deemed legal under the Bush Admin

    by TallanDagwood

    They wrote (since declassified) legal opinions that argued against waterboarding being torture. That was the only torture that Cheney spoke of. The practice has since been banned by Obama

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:08 p.m. CST

    google Bin Laden denies responsibility

    by Boborci

    and you'll see the opposite. So how are we to resolve this conundrum of which facts to choose? We can just debate this one point to see how easily it is to go down the wrong path.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:12 p.m. CST

    one link

    by Boborci

    http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-16/us/inv.binladen.denial_1_bin-laden-taliban-supreme-leader-mullah-mohammed-omar?_s=PM:US

  • Or do you you not believe Al Jazeera translation? http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/29/international/30osamaCND.html

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:14 p.m. CST

    As for google - just do a search for is the world round

    by TallanDagwood

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:15 p.m. CST

    another one

    by Boborci

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/1340409/Bin-Laden-congratulates-tower-terrorists.html

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:16 p.m. CST

    well since the cia admitted to faking bin laden videos

    by Boborci

    I'm not impressed. Here's the link: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/05/cia_group_had_wacky_ideas_to_d.html

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:17 p.m. CST

    The one you posted was from 2001, the one I posted was from 2004

    by TallanDagwood

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/29/international/30osamaCND.html

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:20 p.m. CST

    right from 2004, after he had been declared dead 3 times

    by Boborci

    and what does the date have to do with it?

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Did those videos ever surface and be subject to worldwide scrutiny?

    by TallanDagwood

    No, they did not. This one did. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/29/international/30osamaCND.html

  • and you have no answer for the fact that the cia admits to faking bin laden videos

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:25 p.m. CST

    and here's a link to NYT getting caught lying

    by Boborci

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6572FD377EC72753

  • People - even Bin Laden, do have a tendency to lie about events that will cause them to be either incarcerated or put to death (or maybe just very embarrassing). Then, when evidence mounts, or they sense they have no other alternative, or they simply decide to own the event, they confess. Sometimes weeks later, sometimes months later. Sometimes years later. Sometimes never. Bin Laden confessed.

  • http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2623

  • Evidence that could be used in a court of law -which is now a moot point.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:37 p.m. CST

    The link I posted of him taking responsiblity was deemed authentic

    by TallanDagwood

    By Al Jazeera, and a host of other outlets

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:44 p.m. CST

    @boborci

    by TallanDagwood

    You ignored quite a few of my arguments, but I will address your shark comment. The fact that is has been nullified by Bin Laden himself - and his leadership, taking responsibility for the bombings notwithstanding. No, a shark is not a co-conspirator. Bin Laden took full responsibility for the bombings as well as his leadership - and did not in any way implicate the United States as being co-conspirators, ergo they are not sharks

  • the right image is picture below, on the left. Does the man on the left look like the man on the right? The man on the left, from a video conveniently "found" in an abandoned house showing a jewelry wearing (prohibited by Islam) right handed (as evidenced by him writing with his right hand, though we know he was left handed) and a translation that technically does not claim responsibility. http://tim.2wgroup.com/blog/archives/001006.ht ml

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:51 p.m. CST

    Absolutely, but that was never the point, until you made it so

    by TallanDagwood

    The point being: Was or is there a conspiracy between Al Qaeda and elements of the United States government to coordinate, facilitate or in any way collude in the bombings of the world trade center, the pentagon and shanksville? I clearly and explicitly say no and I provided my arguments in defense of my position. You provided ill-informed conjecture (the Mahattan project, Cheney torture claim, bin laden denying responsibility).

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:52 p.m. CST

    ace of wands

    by MrLongbaugh

    Why do you keep mentioning Marines? Navy Seals are the ones that conducted the operation. Two entirely different groups. Yes, there are Marines stationed on Navy ships. But you keep saying things about a Marine about the same size and things like that. This was a Seals operation. Leave the Marines out of it. We go get our glory on our own. Semper Fi!!

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 2:58 p.m. CST

    You posted a faked video from a conspiracy site

    by TallanDagwood

    That proves nothing other than a truly horribly faked video that some latch onto as "proof" almost as bad as the sasquatch videos

  • a still from that video was put on the cover of Newsweek!! So you agree it is fake!

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 3 p.m. CST

    kai_mah'gra

    by MrLongbaugh

    Actually, I am 6'2" and 220lbs and I did serve in the Corps for 6 years. Pure muscle? Not now, used to be. Tough guy? You bet your ass.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 3:03 p.m. CST

    I see. So Bin Laden and his leadership accepting responsiblity

    by TallanDagwood

    Is not enough. Goes back to my earliest points, for some people there is not such thing as incontrovertible evidence or incontrovertible proof. You might as well say we are all a part of world of The Matrix, because you can not ever believe or believe in anything.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/osama-bin-laden-911-confession-13506877

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 3:04 p.m. CST

    No, the still that you posted is fake

    by TallanDagwood

    And that website is laughable

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 3:04 p.m. CST

    and you admit it proves there are fake videos of Bin laden!

    by Boborci

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 3:06 p.m. CST

    so I guess ABC news is conspiracy site!

    by Boborci

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 3:12 p.m. CST

    I agree the still is laughable! that's the point!

    by Boborci

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 3:14 p.m. CST

    I admit it proves there are laughably fake videos of Bin Laden

    by TallanDagwood

    The real ones pass the test of worldwide scrutiny, the fake ones, end up on conspiracy websites that you seem to be using for your information. Could mainstream media be fooled Of course and they have been in the past. But once again, when Al Qaeda leadership was being hunted down and killed in a very public manner, not only did they not deny the attacks, they never once implicated the United States as being complicit. They ultimately took full responsibility and were killed for it. Self preservation would dictate that they would lie or continue to lie, or try to obscure the facts or set the record straight. But no. They took responsibility. Conspiracy theorists will never believe it. It wrecks their worldview. So be it.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 3:38 p.m. CST

    crickets...

    by Boborci

  • Appreciate you taking time to debate.

  • Including the Shark analogy. You may not have liked my answers, but they were there. Thank you for the diversion of today's debate, and thank you for keeping it free of rancor. We will not come to any agreement on the above debated points, and ultimately a stage is reached when both sides must realize this. There are people who still believe that the earth is flat. They even have websites which attests to a modicum of modern day technological knowhow. This also suggests that some people will believe anything no matter the proof - because nothing is incontrovertible to them. You can debate people who hold to such beliefs and conspiracies, but after a certain point, common sense needs to be asserted. I thought - until the disclaimer, it was admirable that you espoused your views under your real name.

  • Feb. 20, 2012, 7:09 p.m. CST

    Well played Sir Orci,well played.

    by TheAwareness

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 12:01 a.m. CST

    How the real culprits seem to always win.

    by justmyluck

    The thing about people still hotly debating OBL's supposed culpability (sure, there's recent things like this SEAL TEAM 6 movie), is that it ultimately DISTRACTS. Occupying people with these discussions is how the disinformation corps win their battles. Sesame Street teaches kids that if there are questions, wait a minute and you'll receive the answers. Shoving news headlines in everyone's face *for free* every day, in multiple formats, establishes the adult language of public discourse — headlines, snippets and reporting —  for the answers. Dissecting complex deceits, disinformation tactics and political strategies requires lengthy attention span, serious research and many unappealing discoveries. Unlearning heavily funded propaganda, disinformation, psy-ops and such can also be a painful process for people who can't accept that THEY'VE BEEN HAD. The reality is the political and military elite have perfected for decades (centuries?) the act of killing and wounding in large numbers, repeatedly, and yet walking free of criminal accountability by having created *the political organization*. The format is: give an order, sign an authorization form, look presentable and well-spoken if required on camera and solemnly watch the body counts pile up. The general public seems to agree with this, so how could such an organization ever be found guilty of a crime? A term for this is *MANUFACTURING CONSENT*. So, how did the PATRIOT ACT get drafted at impossible speed (over 100 Constitional Amendments in less than a month!)?; how could Rumsfeld insta-create the *Office of Strategic Influence* aimed at disinforming Americans right after 9/11; how did the PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY predict America would need *a new Pearl Harbor* to build-up its military to remain no. 1; what were the odds of so many who signed off on PNAC becoming *players* in various capacities after 9/11?; why does the 1996 A CLEAN BREAK policy paper now read like a crystal ball prediction of mid-east meddlings? Questions like these can never be discussed or resolved in *news format* — digestible and palatable for public consumption. Ta-daa — now that's real war on truth. If you don't buy the Reader's Digest version then, well, you're a nut case, stupid, a supporter of terrorism or whatever slurring paints you as having a disease that must be avoided. Goebbels would be proud. Yet, if projects like Bigelow & Boal's are being given inside access, I would say the powers that be are in need of a more *convincing* OBL story created ASAP. This likely means they're afraid people haven't bought a zero-evidence OBL capture and kill. This can only be a good thing.

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 5:39 a.m. CST

    =it is our job, as patriots, to bother!=

    by KilliK

    arent you a Mexican? OOPS.

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 7:57 a.m. CST

    This TB was entertaining

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    then about halfway through, it wasn't The horse is just a stain on the ground at this point

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 10:06 a.m. CST

    http://tim.2wgroup.com/blog/archives/001006.html

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    It's probably true that you can go through all the photos of any person and find pick two extremes in which they look like two completely different people. But it's unethical to pick only the most dissimilar pair for comparison and hide all the others in order to deceive your audience.

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 10:07 a.m. CST

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    This page does not support the idea that the video is fake. In fact it's highly critical of it, pointing out QUOTE It's probably true that you can go through all the photos of any person and find pick two extremes in which they look like two completely different people. But it's unethical to pick only the most dissimilar pair for comparison and hide all the others in order to deceive your audience. UNQUOTE among other things

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Killik - born with dual citizenship. Oops!

    by Boborci

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 11:20 a.m. CST

    thunderbolt ross - i didnt pick the video

    by Boborci

    The pentagon cited it as the confession video. I didnt put that ring on his finger or make him right handed. I also didnt force the cia to admit they made fake bin kaden videos.

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 11:50 a.m. CST

    @boborci i am not american you moron.

    by KilliK

    is it me or i just hit a nerve with you?.HMMMMMMMM.

  • and got your citizenship later? or is wikipedia lying? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 11:59 a.m. CST

    FROM IMDB:

    by KilliK

    =Born in Mexico City, Mexico, from Mexican father and Cuban mother. His family left Mexico for Texas when he was 10 years old. = Someone is lyiiiiiiing.hehehe.

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Killik -where are you from, you miserable piece of shit?

    by Boborci

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 12:16 p.m. CST

    And i didnt sayyou were american, moron.

    by Boborci

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 12:24 p.m. CST

    boborci

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    My point is that the page you are referencing to support your argument runs precisely counter to your argument. That page is all about how the claim that it's fake is not supported my those shot comparisons. In other words that page is all about how the video is NOT fake, at least according to the evidence the page displays.

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Thunderbolt - sorry, which page is that?

    by Boborci

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 2:15 p.m. CST

    @Boborci I DID hit a nerve with you.haha.

    by KilliK

    and since you got furious and brought up the race card because you are simply incapable of using proper arguments in a conversation,i think it is time for me to split from this topic before things get out of hand.the last thing i want is to get banned in Aicn because of a Hollywood hack screen writer who screams racism. so until we meet again in the next talkback,i bid you farewell my dear Bob.

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 5:43 p.m. CST

    Osama is still alive

    by chien_sale

  • Feb. 21, 2012, 6:13 p.m. CST

    boborci

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    http://tim.2wgroup.com/blog/archives/001006.html