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MISSION TO MARS discovers a Dead Planet
Here's 2 reviews from the NYU Film School screening of MISSION TO MARS last night, it seems the audience as a near whole HATED it, and nearly rioted. Man, that's a tough review to overcome. On another note Father Geek likes to make his own judgements and hates it when rowdy types disrupt the screening for others, be they crying babies, cell-phone talkers, or disappointed viewers. But in this case it sounds like near everyone turned on the film. Too bad, I had high hopes for this one...
Dale Cooper here with a Mission to Mars review.
I am a student at NYU, and every Thursday and Friday we have a Director's
Series screening in which a director will come, screen his/her film, and talk
with us aspiring filmmakers afterward. To give you a hint as to how bad this
film was: De Palma sent a note to the guy who runs the Director's Series that
said: "Hope everyone has a good time." He wasn't going to show up and answer
questions about this pile of shit.
The film starts off fairly decent with one of De Palma's trademark long,
one-take tracking shots. We meet the characters, and things are okay for
five minutes. Then the script starts, and it is a truly awful experience.
Within five minutes we have contrived, expositional dialogue like "Damn it,
this was your mission. You and Maggie worked so hard for this. If only she
didn't get sick and die." Nothing in this film is subtle.
I read a few glowing reviews of this film on your site, so I was hoping.
They were bullshit, and whoever wrote those reviews are literally the
stupidest people on the planet. Not one person liked this film after walking
out.
Literally, nothing ever happens. A rocket ship shoots off into space, we get
the line "Have a good trip," and then suddenly THE END pops up on the screen.
I will say I'm not a big fan of THE END at the end of films, but this one
needed it because you would have had no idea. The commercials showing the
astronauts surrounded by planets and the dinosaurs morphing to bison: that is
the conclusion of the film, and I am sure you can gather what it signifies.
The astronauts discover Mars was once like Earth, then their planet was hit
by a giant meteor and they had to evacuate. They planted the seed for life
on Earth, and now here we are many, many years later.
Have you ever seen a film that is so bad it's good. This doesn't even have
that saving grace. It's just bad. I do not understand how Tim Robbins, Gary
Sinise, Don Cheadle, and Jerry O'Connel could have read this script and
signed on the dotted line. I do not understand how this script even got
greenlit. Literally, the worst dialogue in a movie ever.
I beg everyone to avoid this movie like the plague. Show Hollywood they
can't make shit like this and expect us to watch. Awful, awful piece of
crap.
Dale Cooper, still trapped in the Black Lodge.
Here's another one from the same screening, check out the audience reaction, this should count as dozens of reviews...
Hey Harry, last night Disney and Touchstone
Pictures was kind enough to let the film students of
NYU see a screening of Mission to Mars.
During the
first 5 minutes of this movie, the audience knows you
arent in for another 2001. The dialogue is almost
unbearably cheesy, the acting is almost equally as
bad.
But you know what? It doesnt really matter and
this leads to the point of writing this review. I sat
through this movie and enjoyed myself emmensly. The
effects are spectacular, there are some real dramatic
scenes and jaw dropping scenes (though the dialogue
blows in them) and though the ending is a bit over the
top, at least the film doesnt sell out on giving the
audience an answer to all their questions. M2M is a
bad movie that i really, really enjoyed and i think if
you dont go in with many expectations, i dont see too
many people not having a good time. Its a great
popcorn movie for a time when most of the movies that
come out suck.
The real problem i had with this screening was the
audience. Filled mostly with Cinema Studies and Film
production students, we all share a love of film that
runs deep in our bones and makes for passionate
conversation and all around good times. Last night
was not the case however. I enjoyed the film yes, but
most of the students in the audience jeered and booed
through out the entire thing. "This Blows" "What a
piece of shit" "HAHA, look how cheesy that death
scene was, im GLAD he died" Constantly, throughout
the entire film, these pretentious assholes jeered
this film.
OK, its not a good film, its not 2001, its
a fun film and its meant for a younger audience.
Treat it as such. If these students didnt like the
film, thats fine, voice your opinion afterwards, but
dont do it during a screening that was handed to you
on a silver platter. Its not like we have to pay for
our screenings and its not like half the kids in that
room are ever going to get a chance to make a film
like M2M. There was no one in that room that would
have turned down working on this picture because it
was "overly cheesy and contrived." It made me so mad
that students at this school think they could do
better. I am in the film department and i know that
any student here, if proposed with writing this
script, would make the dialogue just as chessy. Its
in our nature.
I love going to school here, but i find it a real
problem when the kids of today do something like this,
it really doesnt give me too much hope for the future.
Thank god that Brian DePalma and or Jerry O'Connell
didnt show up as was rumored earlier in the week cause
i would have been so embarassed that i think i would
have walked out during the movie. In fact a friend of
mine was so upset afterwards, he wanted to start a
fight to get out some of his anger. We were that
upset.
I think this incident is newsworthy cause it brings
up a good issue. Film students of today do not have
the proper respect that they should for the men that
paved the way for them. Just because we pay almost
40,000 to go to a prestigeous school like NYU, doesnt
give us the right to disrespect fellow filmmakers.
Every movie has its place, just make sure you know
where each one is.
So I dont get killed in class, please refer to me as...
Cru Jones.
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+ Expand All
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I havent had an interest in Mission to Mars at all, which is bad because I've always liked space movies. Nothing in the ads on TV have convinced me that seeing this movie will be worthwhile, so i won't. I too, cannot stand rudeness, even during a bad movie. When I saw the Haunting (forgive me...) the audience wouldn't shut up! I was pissed! I was trying to give the movie a chance (and I ended up hating it anyway), but i don't need someone else to make a MST3K comment every other minute! Recently I saw Scream 3, which I also thought sucked, and the audience was just as bad. Don't theaters have that shitty animation that says "We thank you for not talking"? I always try to give any movie a chance. And incidently, I am a film student also, only at Drexel in Philly. I've noticed that some of my classmates have a certain arrogance to them, they think that they can do better, but they cant. And NEITHER CAN I! At least not yet :) Seriously though, I dont even care. I chose film because its fun. Secondary is my desire to entertain first, then we have "making art". The reason why the so called "artistic" movies dont do well is because theyre usually not entertaining. People don't go to the movies to partake in a deeply moving artistic experience, they go to have a good time. Thats my theory at least...
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Mar 04, 2000 10:23:50 AM CST
In Marketing, the Last Person You Hire Is Someone With a Marketi
by smilin'jackruby
I've heard that that can indeed apply in other lines of work as well. From the rumblings out of film school, it may well be the same there (even though I myself went to grad school for playwriting, the best actors to use weren't to be found in the department).
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I hate DePalma's films. They have no originality, no depth, and no meaning. I hope this movie really, really eats it at the box office, and I hope it picks up a slew of Golden Rasberries, because it's about time DePalma was buried. I'm suprised this did not already happen with THE BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES, which is considered by some to be the worst film of the eighties. Only THE UNTOUCHABLES stands out in my mind as a likeable DePalma film (no, I didn't even care for SCARFACE). This man needs to be dragged out into the street and shot. Yes I said yes I said yes
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The previews look bad, and I'm naturally more inclined to listen to the fellow who uses proper grammar. It's called scholarship, and if you find it pretentious you should drop your ass out of school right now. Something tells me that "i liked it, and i wanted to start a fight with the students who didnt' isn't going to cut it on the final, particularly in _film school_. This film deserves its place alright, presumably on MST3K.
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I was agreeing with the second reviewer that it is bad to talk loudly during movies. That's just good manners. Then he started saying how that made him worry about the future of society. Whatever. That's your opinion. Seems a little overdramatic to me, but fine. Then he says his friend almost started a fight over this movie. Now is it just me or isn't it worse to want to start a fight over a movie than to make loud comments during one? Seems to me that I would be a lot more concerned if my friend got that worked up over a movie than if he made a bunch of noise during it. Seems like there may have been two more pretentious film students there than the writer of the review realized...
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People attacked SW: Epiosde 1 yet it is the second highest grossing movie of all time.
People are mean. They are jealous , spiteful and vent out their hostility on things they can not control. Kind of like bullies on the playground.
I see a movie for what it is. A movie. It's not the second coming of Christ. It's a movie. It's to entertain. Look at "Lost in Space". A lot of people didn't like that movie. Why? Because it had pretty people play the lead roles and the script was bad? So? It's a movie about a family lost in space. What are people expecting? Mission to Mars is about JUST THAT! It's not Dead Poet's Society or Saving Private Ryan. It's nothing but a sci-fi movie for kids and special effect fans. That's all it is people. -
Mar 04, 2000 10:59:49 AM CST
TRUST-FUND BABIES AT NYU KNOW DICK ABOUT NOTHING WHEN IT COMES T
by golgo-14
Granted that Mission to Mars is probably as bad as everyone says it is, I still can't get over how arrogant and condescending these NYU rich kids were while watching this movie. If I got the chance to see a movie before it came out for free, I'd be pretty fucking appreciative. These rich kids at NYU film school don't know the meaning of humility, fuck, they don't even know how to write! I thought NYU film school was hard to get into. If so, then how come both reviews happened to be so blatantly filled to the brim with grammatical errors? I know some of these kids who go to NYU film school andit doesn't take much to describe them, they're long on money and connections and short on talent and creativity. The last great director to come out of NYU was Spike Lee and that was 15 years ago, what have they done since then? Paul Thomas Anderson was so fed up with the arrogance and art-house snobbery which was so prevalent at the school that he dropped out. I love most of these young aspiring directors today, they all think they're Scorceses and Spielbergs without ever having done anything. Briant Depalma may be a on a slump with Snake Eyes and now M2M but don't forget this was the same guy who churned out great movies like Scarface and The Untouchables. I'm willing to bet that none of these kids will ever amount to anything in Showbiz, let alone the stature of a Brian Depalma.
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Alright buddy, don't generalize the film students at NYU. "TRUST-FUND BABIES AT NYU KNOW DICK ABOUT NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO MOVIES"
Sounds like a jealous jaggof who didn't get into NYU film school...
Of course most of these kids aren't going to make it in showbiz, but more of them than anyone else.
Suck up your failures and move on jerk.
-Sup
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Mar 04, 2000 11:26:48 AM CST
THey should pray they have as much talent as DePalma's left nut.
by darth siskel
I still have high hopes for this movie. If those kids were smart they'd work for 4 years on movie sets, instead of blowing $160,000 on school.
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I really hate to see M2M dead. Actually, I wasn't very excited about it, but I hoped that it would be at _least_ a somewhat entertaining movie. Alas, I think that has been proven wrong. I don't know what's happening here at AICN...people are just so malicious towards each other now, no one treats anyone else's opinion with decency. Well, enough wishful thinking.--Saulot--
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hey, its not his fault...i mean, after tryin 2 figure out what ATM card 2 use that day and what pair of bruno magli shoes he should wear...he wasnt in the rite state of mind 2 rite a "scholarly" review...i think we should all rejoice that a boy, scratch that, a MAN has stated his opinion w/ such a fond knowledge of the world he was brought up in...this man should have his own tinker tape parade down 5th ave 4 he is trully my brothers keeper, and i will strike down upon thee w/ furious anger...whoops, sorry,went on a rant, what i meant 2 say was that there R 2 things this kid is talkin about, Jack and Shit..and Jack skipped town...so its better that we all get along, and ask not what AICN can do 4 us, but what we can do 4 AICN...i mean, after a while, my pische will be hangin dry in the desert and then i'll be sayin things like, Utalkin 2 me 2 the lonely cactus in the woods...and then im gonna make ur day w/ a pair of plyers and a blow torch...so please, help me spank my moneky and drain my lizard...piece 2 all! :)
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I AM one of those students and i was THERE last night and i would have to agree with "cru jones." The audience were awful last night and i was ashaimed to be one of them. As for LSHB, we cant all be Duke Law students you know, someone has to have fun in life and not just make money. take your "scholarship" and stick it man. Get your nose outta your book and live.
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I attended film school in the mid-80s (not NYU) - both undergraduate (production) and graduate (film studies). We saw a few screenings - some good, some bad. I do not, however, ever recall hearing the kind of rude reaction described above. By the way, only about three of the people in my graduating class actually ended up in film production - myself included. Basically, film school is totally unrealistic, and in no way related to the real production community. Listing a degree on your resum
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And I was looking forward to this,too.Why is it that every movie in Spring almost assuredly sucks?Sigh.I guess I'll go see...shudder...Drowning Mona instead.Now I'm all depressed.This has been and Irritated Because I Scratched It Moment with User ID Indeed!
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Mar 04, 2000 12:00:15 PM CST
James Cameron is the saving grace for MARS films. Can't wait for
by herman snerd
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I know someone who is going to NYU, that kid couldn't write his way out of a wet paper bag with scissors in his hands. He just happened to have really good grades and parents who went there. If anything, watching Jacob's Ladder did more to further M Night Shyamalan's career than any class at NYU(unless that was where he saw it). If you saw both The Sixth Sense and Jacob's Ladder, you would see that both films have the same surprise ending and similar protagonists. I'm not taking anything away from M Night Shyamalan, I just think The Sixth Sense, like most movies today, was not all that original.
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They're deluded jerks mostly and should consider tempering their language when they discuss the work of a highly skilled if inconsistent film-maker like De Palma. Even better, they should just shut up, watch, learn, make their own films and *then* spout off if they ever make it. So this is no 2001, huh? I've yet to hear one coherent explanation of what the end of 2001 meant and to me, enthusiasm for that film is a sure sign of shallow pretentiousness -- no wonder film students like it. Because they are jerks.
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I couldn't agree with him more. All of those "film-makers" that sit around stroking their beards while watching french films through black rimmed glasses make me sick. Who cares why a flower falls to the ground and a vase breaks??? Films are ENTERTAINMENT pieces. Not works of art. If it's not fun and I'm yawning and wondering why the hell a 3 hour Talented Mr. Ripley story can't be told in five minutes, then I am gone. Here's a tip: If you are paying more attention to how much your butt hurts from the theater seat than the movie.....THEN THE FILM SUCKS!!!
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Mar 04, 2000 1:01:04 PM CST
I know NYU students.... I went to SVA (NYU's Film Rival)... what
by spell checker
After having met literally HUNDREDS of NYU students, I really can't say much nice about them. Time and again, they turn out to be rich- kid, back- stabbing, film- making wanna- bes with LITTLE TO NO TALENT. They all want to make The Hollywood Film (TM & Copyright by Hollywood, California, Inc., patent pending) and seem more interested in reaping the rewards of fame than telling a great story. Quick experience: I went to SVA (on 23rd Street in Manhattan, a film school for the 'poor kids'), and one day did a shoot with a group of NYU pricks, er, I mean, students. I was the sound guy, an NYU student was the DP. Now, when I came on the set, and was introduced to the DP, without so much as a hello, he simply said to me: "Hi, I'm the DP, and just to let you know, sound is going to take a back seat to film on this shoot'. He turned and walked away. What an absolute prick! I almost decked him! By the end of the night (after a lot of macho- cable tossing by NYU, apparently all they teach there is how to lay cable like the Marlboro Man and march together like Nazis), everyone was divided into two camps... NYU and SVA... All the NYU guys were constantly yabbering about James Cameron, while the SVA guys was yabbering about Bunuel... Lots of tension (from a film geek standpoint)... so to kind of calm things down, during a break in filming, the student director sent out for White Castle Hamburgers.... Just to show you how low and petty these guys are, the NYU guys ran over to the burgers and actually STOLE ALL THE WHITECASTLE from us and left us with some empty bags.... By the end of the night, there was almost a rumble between SVA and NYU.... But to be fair, after having gone to film school, I find that MOST film students are lacking... I think, if someone wanted to make a movie, he'd go and MAKE ONE, and skip playing around in Film School.... So anyway, take any 'advice' from NYU students, or film students in general, with a truckload of salt...
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Well...or you could call it a "leave of absense." Whatever, i dont know when/iff ill go back. Film school is weird. I went to Bard. Upstate NY. Very pretentious but very modest as well. Modest because they work with so little...pretentious because they think of it as so much. I couldnt handle it anymore because all my professors seemed to do was bash Hollywood. I can understand with garbage like M2M (i admit i havent seen it yet but i did see SNAKE EYES, ahem), but 2001? It kind of alienated me when my prof went off on that one...one of my favorite movies. Anyone read MovieMaker magazine? A recent series of articles in there is by a guy named Ray Carney. All he does is talk about how bad such films are like TAXI DRIVER or PULP FICTION. It really aggrivates me. I hate it when so-called filmlovers (such as Pauline Kael) just hate 99% of all they see. I think I have higher standards than most (many at this site label me as "pretentious" often), but Im still easy to please. In 1999, I saw soooo many good movies: American Beauty, Three Kings, Fight Club, Being JM, The Matrix, South Park, Eyes Wide Shut, Run Lola Run, The Insider, Dogma, Magnolia, even Star Wars? I saw more good movies than bad in the last 8 months. Thats not bad. I can be a snooty film student (in spirit, not practice) and a genuine filmlover too. Movies are cool. But sometimes they suck. Like when Brian DePalma does them. Ok, he made some cool movies....but hes lost it. Its like that whole sniper scene in TRAINSPOTTING...when Sick Boy gives his unifying theory on life. "At one moment, youve got it, and then you lose it." Brian DePalma had it, lost it. "Who else?" George Lucas, Steven Spielberg (perhaps), Francis Ford Coppola, William Friedkin, Peter Bogdanovich, basically, the role call of Peter Biskind's book. Its old. The 70s rocked when they happened but theyre over. Those movies suck now...all the ones that ape CHINATOWN, JAWS, and THE GODFATHER. ugh. its so old. Ill see M2M (but not pay) only for Mars (the planet fascinates me). Im sure its more DePalma cheese. Personally, I cannot fucking wait to see what Fincher, PTA, Mendes, Jonze, Russell, and Tarantino whenever he gets his lazy ass in gear, do next. The giants of the 70s...Ill still see their shit...why not? "Lou Reed? Some of his solo stuff's no bad." "No, it's no bad but its not great either. And you know in your heart that although its alright, its actually just shite." Ill see it, but itll only be OK. In the meantime, this wandering star will be making new movies, not writing about old ones.
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That first "Mission to Mars" review was pretty much what I was expecting (it's a DePalma film, for Christ's sake). The second one's "don't expect the movie to be more than it is" defense set off all kinds of warning lights; that argument is usually an excuse made for movies that are just plain bad. But while that second guy's review sounded suspicious (why didn't DePalma even show up?), I sympathized with his assessment of the audience he was in. The closest I ever got to film school was a three-month-long film history class that was part of an animation course I took, but even in there, the behavior was frighteningly similar to what this second guy describes. Maybe it was even worse, because these people just plain didn't CARE. They simply didn't care about the history of film. Okay, fine; not everyone does, but these people's stated goal was to MAKE MOVIES. It was a pretty bare-bones class, but it was still good for a whole helluva lot of information. The instructor even screened movies for us, and often it was the REALLY obscure stuff that you have to hunt down at those specialty video stores, if indeed there ARE any such stores in your area. One night he showed us the 1916 film "The Cheat", starring Sessue Hayakawa (y'know, the guy who ended up playing the Japanese P.O.W. camp commander in "The Bridge on the River Kwai"). It's not exactly a movie you can find every day. I and a few other people in the room were practically pissing our pants at the chance to see it. But the attitude of about 85% of the class seemed to be "Who cares? It's just an old movie. It's not even in COLOR." (I used to work for a guy who had this attitude toward black-and-white films; he was trying to break his production company into the big time. I was appalled that this aspiring director could be so dismissive toward old films.) Some people just put their heads down and went to sleep. Others simply didn't pay attention. The only reason they showed up at all was to get the credit (which seemed to be the case with most of their other classes). And this was not lost on the instructor. (He was a crusty old guy who used to be a magazine cartoonist; he took special pride in an off-color cartoon he once submitted to "Hustler". It was returned to him with a signed, personal letter from Larry Flynt, requesting that he never again submit ANYTHING to Flynt's magazine. The guy framed both the cartoon and the rejection letter and put it on his wall at home. I liked him. Anyway...) The very next quarter, the course structure was streamlined, and the class was turned into a rigid, study-hall type course - there would be no more films shown. The instructor had figured that if these people didn't care what he taught them, he wouldn't waste any more energy trying to give them something truly special. Those NYU students did sound like spoiled brats (Gee, I'D like to see a brand-new, pre-release major motion picture every week FOR FREE), but at least they care enough to give a movie a reaction, ANY reaction. Apathetic silence can be more deafening than a thousand jeers.
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I have a friend going to NYU and frankly, I'm glad he's not one of those arrogant, snobby, and braggy idiots who talks about his art just out of random. I believe the true artist keeps art to himself and doesn't say anything about it, until it's created. I don't think NYU is an overrated school. I think the students that go there are just film brats. There various individuals who speak more than they create, and there are film students that are just the most incredible individuals you could meet. Now, as for NYU, my best friend (who's a professional photographer) tells me that film school puts incredible pressure on him, enabling him to sleep only during the hours of 2 am - 7 am. I'm talking about the technical field here. However, going to NY is just not the place. For one thing, there is incredible inspiration, but do you really need to go to the so-called "top film school in the country" to get successful? I go to San Francisco State's film school and it's no bullshit. Yes, there are film brats, but they are a lot more polite and cool in behavior (there's California attitude for you there). I mean, really. NYU requires you to submit a portfolio of your work. SFSU doesn't. That doesn't mean SFSU sucks. For one thing, getting internships at ILM is a lot easier, because SFSU is closer to Marin County than any film school. Secondly, there's a whole lot more diversity in SFSU than NYU. I mean, god, Danny Glover graduated from this school (though from theater arts), but that's irrelevant. Director John Sayles says that his problem with film schools is that students get their inspiration from movies and not the real world. Maybe that's why we get so many hacks in the film world today.
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Most (not all) film students have forgotten how to love film. They have become so wrapped up in the mechanics and artistry and so on, that they no longer FEEL anything when they see a film. They analyze, and dissect every frame of a film until there's nothing left to love. They have forgotten everything that made them love film in the first place.
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Mar 04, 2000 1:41:02 PM CST
When country and western musicians began writing children's book
by lickerish
the same thing DePalma's doing...I liked Sisters..loved Obsession(P.Schrader takes some of the credit) and Dressed to Kill is great...Casualties of War had some nice Penn stuff...I loved Scarface..and especially Carlito's Way...I remember SamsCars had a nice rant about DePalma the film scientist, mixing up references and using hypertext cues...which seems applicable, but M2M sounds about as novel as macaroni
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Why do you fools insist upon being so polarized? Blanket statements like FTL3000's "Films are ENTERTAINMENT pieces. Not works of art" are just foolish. Films can be art. Films can be entertainment. Film can even be BOTH. Yes, the snooty, film student/critic cliche holds true sometimes, but are you so narrow-minded as to dismiss the notion of a film aspiring to more than pop entertainment? Films are like books. Sometimes they're very approachable, like Stephen King, little more than good, broad-appeal entertainment. Other times they're more challenging, like Dostoevsky - you struggle through it, but ultimately it's more rewarding than any pop fiction. Let's not just dismiss "artsy" films and the concept of film criticism because a few film students acted like assholes or because you didn't "get" 2001. By the way, people who talk during movies DO need to be crucified on the Tree of Woe, that much we can all agree on.
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...to hear that I am not alone. One of the reasons I abandoned NYU film school was the severe deficit of talent and the large surplus of rich kids whose filmmaking dreams are informed by...
The director's series, when I was there (circa '92-94) was a godsend, and when there wasn't a marked lack of participation there was a notable excess of participation; i.e. the big commercial pictures, a la M2M, were packed and bristling with overstimulated, under-intellectually-nourished film students. It's fucking easy to jeer something like M2M...was anyone expecting brilliance from DePalma (and I still think everything he made in the 70's is brilliant) at this point is foolish, and if you're surprised by M2M's lack of quality--surprised enough to heckle it--then you're an idiot.
But then, this is my attitude towards a liberal arts education. All you need to know about film, art, or literature can be learned by steady and personalized exposure. I've seen too many students have their perspectives shaped entirely by a professor whose opinions are corrupted by theory. It's sad. A film school education really is an excercise in "losing your love." You learn to disregard your own reaction.
Forget creating a foundation of experience on which to base your opinion--you're taught to repress all this in favor of some jackass's poorly conceived THEORY. Ugh.
One final note...
I was at NYU's dirctor's screening when Reservoir Dogs was first screened, a month or so before it was released, and know what? Half the fucking audience--NYU film students-walked right the fuck out. Nobody had informed them that the film was, indeed, worthy of their attention, and not being in a position to establish an opinion of their own, it seemed safer for all involved to simply abandon ship.
Pay your 30K and assist any production you want. -
Who the Hell are you to decide how someone should react to something?! If I am in a theater and I'm being assaulted by some piece of shit movie you bet your candy ass I'm going to say something! When a movie is so bad that it viscerally elicits a reaction it is no longer a lecture it has become a conversation. I only hope that the filmakers and executives responsible for it are in the room to hear me! They deserve to experience the derisive jeering inspired by their lack of ability and consideration for their audience. Maybe if more people spoke out loud more often in pre-release screenings and held these contemptible dullards responsible, we wouldn't be subjected to dreck like M2M and Viva Rock Vegas!...I wonder what all the Talk Backers responses would be towards the vocal audience if this were a screening held at a Sci-Fi convention or a mall in Carvel, OH?
Be Vigilant. -
Art of Entertainment You ask?
Well I say:
Film should be Entertaining Art. -
Guess I won't be seeing the film now... not because some shit-head film students didn't like it, but because the reviews here just spoiled the whole movie.
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A few months ago, I read an ugly, ignorant article in Entertainment Weekly (the best place to find ugly, ignorant articles) that described 1999 as "The Year that Changed Movies." The writer showered praise on the young generation that makes movies that closely resemble 2-hour music videos. He had as awfully dismissive attitude toward the still-standing great film makers, such as Scorsese, calling films such as BRINGING OUT THE DEAD and EYES WIDE SHUT "D.O.A." His only defense of modern-day movies was that they had really fast editing. I'm being serious. He based his entire arguement on the fact that movies now had faster images and more interesting visual effects. Then, a few weeks later, I read an article in "Film Comment" where Lisa Schwartzbaum said that James Cameron was the most inspirational figure of the decade. I wanted to throw up. Schwartzbaum made a total idiot out of herself, because everyone else in the "Film Comment" article was praising people like Abbas Kirostami, Clare Denis, Tarentino, and Eastwood. Even the really commercial choices, like Bill Murray, were well-defended. But Schwartzbaum simply said that Cameron "pushed the envelope," amidst many other cliches. This is why we have so many brats in film school, because we have saturated ourselves with pop culture and have forsaken the ability to sit down and watch a long, quiet, pleasant movie. These kids need to be strapped to a theater seat with their eyes pried open (a la McDowell in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE), and forced to watch the works of David Lean, Ozu, Ingmar Bergman, and Orson Welles. Hollywood's only hope is to look to the past for inspiration. But they can't, and that's why we're being bombarded with so many sequels this coming year.
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Long time reader, first time poster here. Couldn't hold back after seeing the "review" of M2M. I have no idea why NYU Film School students think they are something special. I see those atsy wanna-bes shooting round NYC all the time and I see their future as Tower Records clerks. Mommy and Daddy shell out big bucks for these cheese-balls to go to a "pretigious" school like NYU and they have no concept of real life. These "filmmakers" come to NY from Cornhole, nebraska, dress all punk or "east village", hang out on St. Marks street but still end up the poseurs they started as.
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Mar 04, 2000 5:20:01 PM CST
Film School, Johnny Drywall, and the 'unoriginality' of Sixth Se
by spell checker
Okay, to be fair, I think I was rough on NYU. The problems that I stated in my other post can be found in ALL art schools, and in ANY art student. Whoever the guy was that said film students are too often inspired by other movies, and not enough by real life was dead on... You CAN learn a lot from film school, but you've got to learn to distill it out. I think the best type of student is the student in LIFE. The student that draws from the world around them... A person who goes to school for art is more likely to be the type of person who wants to be taught how to be an artist. A real artist will be more likely to abandon convention and go out there and JUST DO IT, as the Nike commercial says. Like anything in life, however, there are exceptions to this. As for Johnny Drywall... ever thought about the fact that when you boo and jeer in a film, YOU'RE DISRESPECTING THE REST OF THE AUDIENCE? 'Quality' is subjective. How'd you like it if you went to your favorite film and weren't able to enjoy it because half the people around you were heckling it through the entire thing? Esp. after you just paid $10 for a ticket? Why, the hecklers might as well grab the hard- earned money you would use to pay for the show and piss all over it. I really don't think you'd like that. And now moving on to Sixth Sense... Jacob's Ladder got it's 'hook' ending from a short story entitled "An Occurance at Owl Creek" written YEARS BEFORE. In it, a Civil War soldier is hung... the rope breaks, and he runs to freedom, gets home to his wife, lives his life, has kids, and suddenly ends with the rope SNAPPING HIS NECK. It had all been the dream of a man hoping for life... This 'unoriginality' doesn't stop Jacob's Ladder from being a great film. So, if Sixth Sense stole it's ending, so did Jacob's Ladder... which in my mind means you can't say a film is bad because it's got the same ending as another. ALL WORK IS derivative of something, either by coincidence, subliminal memories, or because someone wanted to steal. It's how it's presented that makes it fresh and new. Who was it that said there are really only 30- something plots? I'm not saying I loved or hated Sixth Sense, Jacob's Ladder, or any other film... I'm just trying to make a point. Besides, too much emphasis is placed on 'hook' endings, anyway. So what if there's a big 'hook' at the end? If a film is really a good one, you should be talking excitedly about ALL PARTS OF IT. Plot twists and hook endings do not a story make!!
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I am just about to graduate from USC's film production program as an undergraduate, and I can honestly say that film school CAN NOT prepare you for the real world. No way, no how. The only reason I went to USC was for a practical understanding of film. That's it. I have no illusions about being the next George Lucas, I am not arrogant enough to think my first screenplay will be made by Spielberg, and I pity any film school fool who feels he/she will conquer Hollywood after graduation. It is sad but true. Ask any prominent film producer, studio head, director, whatever, and many of them do not have a college education in film. Kathleen Kennedy? Studied nursing, then communication, at SDSU. Lynda Obst? Studied Philosophy at Claremont college. Lauren Shuler-Donner? Studied communications, and started in broadcast sports. Even the big guns, like Bryan Singer and the head of Fox (blanking on the name) were USC Critical Studies graduates, often considered second tier film students by pretentious production students. The purpose of film school is to give students the basic tools and language of film, to enable them to function in the motion picture industry. That's it. It is not a ticket to stardom, it is not declaring you God's Gift to Film, and it does not give you supreme intelligence over anyone else. Success takes hard work, patience, and talent. Any schmoe can go to film school, but not any schmoe can stick to it for 20 years, like Curtis Hanson (a high school dropout), to earn their stripes in Hollywood.
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- that's disturbing. I've read a gazillion articles decrying the decay of movies into flashy, ADD-inspired, two-hour music videos, but I've never seen one ACTIVELY PRAISING this degeneration. The argument that "the special effects were good" as a defense of an otherwise terrible movie is something I expect to see in the form of a six-line message on an Internet forum, not as a feature article in a glossy, nationwide weekly magazine. Entertainment Weekly's always been pretty vapid, but this is ridiculous. Heaven help us. Oh, and Drywall - do your next audience a favor and shut the hell up while the movie's playing. Even if you're watching what seems to you to be the most obviously stupid movie in history, the guy in front of you might still LIKE it, and he shouldn't have to put up with the idiot in the seat behind him hooting and hollering at the screen. I have to deal with people like you almost every time I go to a movie, and I'm sick of it. You can only see a movie for the first time ONCE.
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After all, there are a LOT of students at NYU, and the very few that make it into mainstream Hollywood, or even into the independant circut, will be the ones who know something about Welles, Ford, Hitchcock, Bergman, and all the other truly great film makers. All of those spoiled little brats who were booing the M2M movie will probably spend their remaining years as waiters in some 50's styled diner hoping for some movie star to magically drop in one day so they can slip their screenplay under the bathroom stall door. Believe it or not, Hollywood DOES require its soldiers to know something about the great masters. Even if we get buried by sequels year after year.
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I think I forgot to mention that EW got a load of angry mail about the article from people of all ages. The person who wrote the article (I wish I could remember the name of that superficial little twit- I think it was Jeff something) said that this was a generation that grew up on Game Boys, and that they were using this for inspiration for their movies (he said this in a POSITIVE sense, with a straight face!). One person wrote in to say that- and I really perked up on hearing this reply- "Orson Welles didn't need a Game Boy!" God forbid that anyone should use books or plays as inspiration!!!!!!!!!
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....all these pathetic, disillusioned losers all applied to NYU because the likes of Spike Lee, Martin Scorsese, et all...went there, hoping that they too will become famous.(Famous, not artists.)
Unfourtantely, it takes conviction and intelligence to do anything in this world, and these wannabe film students should quit while they are ahead.
People dont go to college for the same reason they did 30 years ago, and that is why they will end up like that one writer said:
As Tower Records clerks. -
I happen to really enjoy the majority of DePalma's work. Dressed to Kill makes Basic Instinct look like a high school production. Untouchables was awesome. Scarface, yes. Carlito's Way, yes. Blow Out, yes. I'm just surprised that no jerkoff has accused him of ripping off Hitchcock with M2M. He could remake Star Wars from the exact shooting script and some asshole would call him a Hitchcock wannabe.
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I think Vorpalbuni and PipsOrcle make very valid comments on film students. For one, all of you that are bashing film students have no right whatsoever. You are generalizing who they are, what they think, and contradicting yourselves. You are talking as if you are more accomplished, more creative brilliant thinkers. NYU, USC, and UCLA are extremely selective film schools. I believe they admit kids who are very creative...
Though most of these kids will never make it to the head of Hollywood, not all of them even intend on making it there. Anyway, whether you spend your money at film school or attempt to make the next Clerks, good luck all
peace
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Listen to you Harry. You've given up on the movie already, and you hav'nt seen it for yourself.
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I just want to take a few minutes to defend myself and my review. First, the audience was horrible at the screening. I was there, and I kept my mouth shut, but sometimes you can't just help to laugh. I think the jeering during Tim Robbins' death scene was uncalled for because it was the one really dramatic moment of the movie, but Tim Robbins felt out of place and looked like he really didn't care about this movie, which might have been why people cheered his death. But, I do want to emphasize that I am not a pretentious film student. I knew by conversations that everyone thought this movie would suck, but I defended it because this is exactly my type of movie. Unfortunately, my hopes could not be met. I am a huge De Palma fan, although many kids here at NYU are not. I will defend Dressed to Kill (the far superior Psycho remake - sorry, Gus, but that was a mistake of a movie), Untouchables, Carlito's Way, heck, even Raising Cain on some levels. But this film was nowhere near as good. It all starts with the script. Someone said these movies all have dialogue like that, but it's just not true. This literally was the worst written movie. Many action films have bad dialogue, but nothing like "There's nitrate in here." "I also read oxygen." "Nitrate and oxygen." "Also known as air!" Or something to that effect. I am a film student at NYU, and I struggle everyday to decide if I want to stay or not. I realize I will probably end up at Tower Records, but for the moment I would like to give it my best shot. People can knock me down; I expect it and do it to myself. But I am not pretentious. I love movies too much to act all artsy-farsty on people. The whole point of this site it to tell Hollywood to stop making crap and to let the fans know what to spend their money on. I am honest in telling you you will not be happy paying $10 for this film, and I understand if you want to reserve judgement for yourself. But don't say I didn't warn you.
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The fact that a bunch of arrogent know it alls from "NYU"- (like that means jack shit)- did'nt like this movie means nothing to me. Those arrogent punks are so anxious to act like they're the shit they can't even sit through a DePalma film without acting like they've got something on him. So to all you rich punks out there---blow me! you don't know shit!
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This is just an innocent question. Why is it that when "The Green Mile" was reviewed at film school screenings none of this got stirred up? The reviews were responded to as ligitimate and not simply discarded as they have been by many talkbackers here. What gives? Is this about film students or about the flick? Who cares who gave the review? Read the review, and if it makes observations that seem to make sense, great. If not, discount the opinion. Please don't resort to broad generalizations in making a point, any point. 'Cuz that's just, well, mean.
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...1) use the term 'spoiler' when you are going to reveal crucial plot points and 2) please learn the proper use of the term 'literally'.
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(ELI CROSS stands before microphone and clears his throat before saying) Ahem. My name is Eli Cross...and I have a degree in Film. (SUPPORT GROUP) HI, ELI. Anyhow, I'd like to defend the NYU guys. I'd LIKE to, but can't. I went to film school and had no pretensions about becoming the next Scorsese. I just wanted to learn. I wanted to know more about the medium I loved. Anyone who goes to film school as a shortcut to fame and fortune is a naive goon. Art students don't go take art courses to expect to become Dali. (However, if they'd offered that course, I woulda changed majors.) My film school experience is a truly happy one as it directed me to films I might never have otherwise seen. The NYU slams are misdirected. The enemy is MICHAEL BAY! ANTICHRIST! ANTICHRIST! (Toweling off...) The film world needs film students like the economy needs economists. The last word is the fan's. Send a message. Boycott shite like Armageddon and Wild Wild West. (Oh, God, X-Men is going to blow, I just feel it in my bones....) Do your research and vote with your feet. Caveat Emptor. (Harry, darling, LOSE THE BOOGER-EATING ANIMATION! IT ISN'T FUNNY AND IT'S DISTRACTING AS HELL!) Peace.
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To start, let me say that I am in agreement with you when it comes to vocal outbursts during PUBLIC showings of movies. After all (as you pointed out) what good would heckling do except to annoy those that may be enjoying the picture. If you read my posting more carefully you will see that I specifically refer to PRE-RELEASE SCREENINGS. I refer to those screenings precisely because the people responsible for the theft of two hours of my life are in the room and they should feel the shame that the short sightedness of their ambition has wrought. Don't get me wrong, I don't watch screenings like I'm Tom Servo, but I will laugh out loud at something insipid and groan a deserving "Come on!" where appropriate. BTW Cuthbert51, I am well aware of the difference between a director's "fucked up vision" and a studio's cheap attempt at cashing in on a flashy adaptation of "The Jeffersons" for their summer, tentpole release. Be Pure.
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To start, let me say that I am in agreement with you when it comes to vocal outbursts during PUBLIC showings of movies. After all (as you pointed out) what good would heckling do except to annoy those that may be enjoying the picture. If you read my posting more carefully you will see that I specifically refer to PRE-RELEASE SCREENINGS. I refer to those screenings precisely because the people responsible for the theft of two hours of my life are in the room and they should feel the shame that the short sightedness of their ambition has wrought. Don't get me wrong, I don't watch screenings like I'm Tom Servo, but I will laugh out loud at something insipid and groan a deserving "Come on!" where appropriate. BTW Cuthbert51, I am well aware of the difference between a director's "fucked up vision" and a studio's cheap attempt at cashing in on a flashy adaptation of "The Jeffersons" for their summer, tentpole release. Be Pure.
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To start, let me say that I am in agreement with you when it comes to vocal outbursts during PUBLIC showings of movies. After all (as you pointed out) what good would heckling do except to annoy those that may be enjoying the picture. If you read my posting more carefully you will see that I specifically refer to PRE-RELEASE SCREENINGS. I refer to those screenings precisely because the people responsible for the theft of two hours of my life are in the room and they should feel the shame that the short sightedness of their ambition has wrought. Don't get me wrong, I don't watch screenings like I'm Tom Servo, but I will laugh out loud at something insipid and groan a deserving "Come on!" where appropriate. BTW Cuthbert51, I am well aware of the difference between a director's "fucked up vision" and a studio's cheap attempt at cashing in on a flashy adaptation of "The Jeffersons" for their summer, tentpole release. Be Pure.
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Do you really feel the need to "shame" a director for perceived short-sightedness and lack of ambition? Maybe a film was poorly executed, but is it just possible that the director was sincere in their intentions or at the very least hoped to provide some fun popcorn viewing? Of course it is. Even if their intentions were purely self-serving, there is such a thing as common courtesy and respect - I'd think that'd hold true at ANY movie screening. Fill out the card and tell them how wretched the movie was, sure, but why the desire to humiliate the creators personally? Is a poor film really such a contemptible thing that you feel a need to sneer at someone? Let your writing speak, and when the film comes out, let your buying dollar speak. Oh, and that alleged "theft" of two hours of your life - you gave that time up freely, and you had the choice to walk out at any time if you felt so insulted. I'm afraid you're coming across as the epitome of the cliched snob critic.
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Mar 05, 2000 4:02:37 AM CST
Brundledan and Stephen..BTW wasn't Schwartzbaum the critic who d
by lickerish
While I can absolutely agree with the traditional view on the editing arguement..as Kubrick and Antonio(easy ex.) use some of the most excellently textured and metaphorical shots.. but, you must admit, there is super potential with flash-cutting. When one film can show four different viewpoints in the same time it takes another to show just one, which has the edge?? Granted, in that one played out shot there could be enough characterization and tone to deliver the intent, plus some...but when you can jump from one feeling to the next in a sequence, each particular feeling begins to symbolize enormous cues...almost like scientific notation..how cosmic distances are related with numbers and letters which signify these unimaginable quantities. For instance, when you break down your feelings to describe them to someone, the magnitude of what you're attempting to say, from what keyed the emotion, to what sustained it, to what eventually quelled it..also including the various branches is chaotic to say the least, well, you condense it...Saying, "i'm angry" ok, well, about what exactly? why? how angry? when did it start? is that the only reason?...there's so much substance represented by that single statement..this is audible language; film is visual and audible. If you could speak in pure reference, using arbitrary yet consensual: phrases, scenes of dialogue, literary passages, etc...but to a greater extent than is currently done, the amount of information to be conveyed could potentially increase...by X- fold. Which could facilitate communication exponentially..the more these cues or symbols are implemented the more can be communicated quicker. Same goes for visual. Flash editting is a tool, and used properly, can be quite effective. I was once overpowered by it, as well as turned off. Sometimes it can be rough or abrasive. And god knows any scene composed by Kubrick is brilliantly pleasing in it's symmetry and grace. Now, in Any Given Sunday...i followed the football games well, and felt relieved that i could have so much processed in such a short time. As with the opening of Saving Private Ryan. I guess it depends on the editor and his grasp of the tone...I hated Stigmata's editing as well as the awful Sliding Doors. Nevertheless, this style of editing does have it's place.
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Hello Film fanatics it is me Jedi7 here and I am sorry that Mission to Mars seems to be a not so great movie. If you want a great De Palma film see Scareface. Even though all the film students seem to not like it I still think they should show some respect. Don't always take a films students review of a movie. I am a film student and believe me those who are interested in film would of bent over backwards to have been able to work with the talented actors that are in this film even if it was no good. I am still going to see it anyway and I wouldn't rely on a film students opionion anyway becuase they tend to be biased. The truth of the matter is, it is hard to make a good film these days because expectations are so high. What makes a good film is a good story, and good stories today are hard to come by. Half of the film students in society today don't really know what they want to do and right away judge a movie that might have good points. Either way they should have respect for people who have been in the business longer than they have. Only you to yourself can be a judge of how good a movie is and not some mindless film student. And remember The Force will Be with you always....
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The makers of MISSION TO MARS have come out and admitted that they did indeed set out to make a bad film. Gary Sinise told one interviewer that he took this role because he was hoping to piss a lot of people off by suckering them into paying to see something made specifically to piss them off, because he is an actor and thought that this would be a great challenge for him at this point in his career. "I've never pissed off an entire audience before," he said. "I consider this a breakthrough role in that respect -- I decided to do a bad job, and I specifically chose a bad script and a director who I respect precisely because he has no discernable style and obviously doesn't want to make a decent film either. Brian De Palma had a secret desire to make a bad film, and I thought this was such a radical idea, I just had to be a part of it." Producer Tom Jacobson also admitted, "I developed this project for three years, trying to come up with the suckiest idea possible for a space movie, and when Brian came along, I was impressed that he wanted to make such a bad film. We all had the same aggressive stance -- PISS 'EM ALL!! When Ted Tally agreed to work on the script, I told him we didn't want anything good, like what he did for 'Silence Of The Lambs.' I said, 'You have to make the script bad! Study the worst screenwriters you can get your hands on, and give us something to work with.' He was quite impressed with our integrity and spirit, so much so that he insisted on an associate producer credit, rather than screenplay credit. He knew we were on to something big, you know, something new and dangerous. A movie that the public will just hate. That was our goal from the start." Brian De Palma sent a note along with a print of the film to the NYU film students for a special screening that said, "I hope you all enjoy this -- suckers! Ha-ha."
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Let me begin by saying that I thought your post was very intelligent and well-written. You have a good point- indeed, there are many fine young film-makers out there who are putting flashy editing to good use- MAGNOLIA, RUN LOLA RUN, BEING JOHN MALKOVICH, etc. But remember, this can have a very negative effect, too. And it doesn't just exist in today's movies. I watched Bob Fosse's ALL THAT JAZZ on Bravo last night, and it was a fine example of how quick and fast-cut editing can be abused. If you haven't seen this film, it is an overrated, bloated, self-pitying mess that falls to pieces at the one-hour mark. There's a big difference between brain candy and intelligent, skilled film-making, and we have to make sure that the next generation knows this.
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THANK YOU FOR SPOILING PART OF THE MOVIE YOU FUCKING MORON!! More reason not to trust your review you stupid idiot, you are spewing out what characters die!!
Fucking jerk. You should be banned for that.
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Hey man, don't forget the film school of San Francisco State. It's got a whole variety of diverse film students and filmmakers, when campuses like USC and NYU don't. I mean, there's native American filmmakers at SFSU. Does NYU have that? NO!
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my 2 cents on people who talk in the movies - y'all can go straight to hell. You can rustle your chip packets, you can chew on popcorn, and slurp you fat coke, but if you nudge your idiot friend, snigger, say "oh, this bit is great!", or "well babe, the thing you have to remember about the Hechler and Koch MP5 . . ." or "Aw shit, this movie is just like STAR WARS", or "you should tell that guy NO WAY, ok, he just, like, using you . . ." or squeal "ooooooh!" when the house lights go down, or yell "man, that's GOTTA HURT" like you are the first cinema comedian to think of that line, or get into a shoulder-punching duel with your arsehole mate, physical age 17, mental age 12, or start kicking the seat in front of you, or start to slowly shred you polystyrene cups in a series of screeching rips, or shine those bastard laser pens at the nipples of the starlet on the screen, or arrive late, then take half an hour to quieten down and settle in, asking your mates who arrived earlier what's happened so far, or arrive stoned, laughing loudly at all the wrong bits and then starting to freak out, or fart, (which is allowed), and then spend the next hour trying to repeat it, sniggering all the time, (which is not), or picking your nails with a loud repetitive clicking noise, or hollering repeatedly "MAN, THIS MOVIE SUCKS" (even if it does), then expect ol' painless to come over the back of his theatre seat faster than Robin Williams in 1982 on a line of cocaine, grab you by your lapels, and scream SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP till you are drenched in spittle. This is not a joke.
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Yes, I too am a Film School Graduate. There. I said it. Now maybe I can deal with the miserable farce that has been my life to date, and move on. Actually, I don't know what it is like over in the U.S., but Oz film and drama studies are occasionally fun and robust, sometimes wanky and sometimes not pretty at all. I know of what you speak, ahem, when you describe the shallow wanker alert of film studes watching a pop cinema piece. Probably you all know the types too - the gaggle of students in the refectory, arms resting on the back of the chair with the hand upwards and elegantly extended, holding a vaguely rolled cigarette. Lots of smoke rings, and loud, loud exclamationary remarks featuring the names of French and Italian film directors. Urrrggghh. The types who throw their woolly scarves around their necks with that extra panache and sing Kurt Weill songs in the corridors. I do recall a bunch of said studes putting on a performance piece in the Uni pub one Friday evening. What larks. Of course, no one paid them any mind, which saw the director stand up on a table and lambast everyone in the pub (only to be soundly booed and told to 'fuck off'. Rightly so, too). When I saw 'Being John Malkovich' down at the Lygon Street cinema, all the tossers (and there are many in that area), stayed in the cinema for the entire duration of the credits in complete silence. As if to show that they were (a) thoughtfully absorbing the complexities of the film (something you have to do when every decent critic has written that it was an original and provocative piece of cinema); or (b) showing that the name of the Best Boy or Dolly Grip was of equal importance to them as the names of the cast or the director - because they are so fair-minded. Bollocks. Hey, after the cringeworthy week of Oz film last week - The Wog Boy and Cut - I noticed at a preview on the weekend, a trailer for a new flick called 'My, myself and I' (I think). Was I inspired by what the Australian Film Commission is getting behind this time. Oh no! Did it appear to be another pile of dross, derivative quirky garbage. Oh yes! What ever were they thinking!?? And, yes, there is another Yahoo Serious film coming out. Aaaarrrgghh! You know, I don't entirely regret my years studying how to make film, and film theory - these are, after all, the same theories and histories that have informed and inspired many of the great directors working today. And I have a broad knowlege of cinema and I don't need explosions and gun-totin' to make my day. But I also have a deep and abiding love of popular cinema and culture that I will never lose - and it is nice to see that critical culture has caught up with geek culture on this. Indeed - if you NYU studes are having problems with dealing with that aspect of cinema culture, then you are out of the loop. Pop culture and cultural studies drives film theory these days - read some o/s film periodicals for starters. Every decent Uni English Department has courses on crime/horror/sf etc. now, because there is as much to think about and derive and 'read' from this culture as there is from some tossy European film about a boy making a journey of sexual discovery in some sepia-drenched rural backwater. Oh yes. Plus a good Hollywood flick is a shitload more fun to watch. Damn straight.
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As someone who has gone to Emerson College (91-94) I can say that Flim Schools (Emerson, NYU, USC, UCLA, Columbia) MEAN JACK SHIT IN THE REAL WORLD...When I was at Emerson (I was studing Lighting Desgin by the way...And even that was filled with many untallented losers...) all I heard was "I want to be the next JOHN SINGELTON." or "I Want to be the next QUIETION TARITINO" or "I want to be the next MARTIN SCORSESE. or "I want to be the next JAMES CAMERON." And/Or you would hear how they would sell their first screen play right after they graduated and go on to win a Oscar for Best Director/Screenplay/Picture and what liberal cause they would plug during their accecptance speech. How they would change hollywood and make millions and live in the hollywood hills all the while supporting a pablum puking democrat that would rasie taxes on everyone else but them...All of this was cheered on by that pirck asshole professor Pete Chivani (A Hollywood reject.) I remeber talking to a Emerson flim student and at one point made a offhand remark on how I would like to someday direct my own flim. His response was..."Keep dreaming, cause you will never get anywhere cause the studios want only FLIM majors..."-----------------------------Yet this aggaogant prick never realized that the good flims are based on life experience...Not on what flim school you attended. Yet I see more kids come from USC,NYU,UCLA, EMERSON et al. come out to Califorina and expereince first hand that this is WORK. And there is MAJOR MONEY INVOLVED and you will work long hours. They'll goff off every chance they get and bitch when they have to do script coverage, or empty a trash can or sweep up an office. And cop the attiutde "I went to Emerson/NYU I should be directing." And look at the film school idols NYU's SPIKE(White people are racsits unless you see my movie)LEE, MARTIN(Oh how I whish the 70's would return)SCORSESE or USC's JOHN(All vI can do is bash a great president Ronald Reagan)SINGELTON HAVE NOT HAD A HIT IN OVER 5 YEARS AND HAVE SQUANDERED FUCKING MILLIONS.-----------------------------------------------The problem with film/lighting schools is is that they are totally versed in the world of theory. You can make a short flim at NYU does not mean you are ready to direct a studio let alone a independant movie. Trying to emulate PLUP FICTION does not mean you will get a muti-million dollar deal out of MIRIMAX (Why would anyone want to work with those assholes remains a mystery to me.) Occasionally in variety you will read about a beleagured studio aquistions person excliam:"Were sick of the Pulp Fiction/Clerks/Resoior Dogs/Good Will Hunting/The Heroin Dealer is our friend... Clones we see em every day..." and who's making em: NYU et al flim students v(Lets not forget the world of independant cinema that also encourages these pieces of dreck.) Flim School/Indie Cinema has long gotten away from learning rather its trying to make it big at sundance with PC-issues and grab a deal at Mirimax yet we have seen more and more one hit wonders (NYU/EMERSON flim grads no less) fall by the way side cause they were more intrested in graduating at the top of thier class, desgining the EVVY awards, or trying to win a EVVY awards, or trying to impress the mhannatan socailite crowd.................................I never want to be known as the next Kevin Smith I'd rather be known as me its gotten me farther than the clones and it will get me igher than the rest....Now If i have offended your NYU/EMERSON flim school, I LOVE CHRISTINE VACHON INDIE FLIM PROGRAMMING PLEASE SEND ALL HATE MAIL TO: bankofkev@hotmail.com
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Don't Forget "Pi", I saw that awesome film at A LANDMARK theater in Minneapolis. Aronofsky went to NYU and hes got great talent, I think. I cant wait to see what BOTH Mr. Fincher AND Mr. Aronofsky do next.
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First off, Harry you MUST Lose that booger animation. Very unfunny, distracting and lame.
Second off, the majority of NYU film students are miserable bastards. They think because they are in NYU, they'll be respected filmmakers... Being in the business I know one thing. What film school you've gone to means jack shit when getting a job on a film. As for M2M, i'm sure it sucks... but let's all not forget a little film called Star Wars. That sure had some golden dialog, and great first reviews. -
"The problem with film/lighting schools is is that they are totally versed in the world of theory"--- I am inclined to agree with this. On the first day of my My Intro to Filmmaking class at SFSU, my teacher stated that he hated film brats. I guess another problem with Film students is that they don't know history. He was asking questions to every film student about the Lewis & Clark expedition, about the early days and pioneering of filmmaking... Most of the people were like, "what?", not answering. Well, the class consists of like 150-200 students (a lot of which don't know dipshit about the real process of filmmaking and true art) and basically the whole class was silent. Now I know history myself. Although I really didn't bother to answer the questions, because I was hoping for other people to answer than I, like only 1-3 people in the class bothered to answer historical questions that my film teacher asked. ...And guess what? These 1-3 students are the same ones that answer the non-theoretical questions, ones that pertain to films that deal with historical, social, ethnic, and other issues. I keep wondering what world these SFSU film students are in. Are they so trapped in their film world, that they don't want to be told the true reality? Are they shy? Are they just so stuck up in their film theories, that in their mind, they know what the right film is and what the right film isn't? I don't have a problem criticizing a film. That's what Ain't It Cool News is founded on. I don't mind having a debate with 50 something people telling why I think Inspector Gadget the Movie should die in eternity. However, I don't want to tell them: "Oh, so you think it's the tightest live-action film adaptation of a cartoon? Really? Well, fuck you!" I mean, everyone's entitled to a damn opinion, but it doesn't need to be so arrogant. Here's one thing. Arrogancy must die... lol
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Module has a point in his/her post. If the film that the NYU students were shown was "The Green Mile" or "Magnolia", they probably wouldn't, nay, _wouldn't_ have acted in this fashion. What I'm seeing here on this TalkBack is the God-awful truth. People who are taught to contemplate art (NYU and other film students) are ripping apart a turkey of a B-movie. Every on-line nerd posting had high-hopes for the movie (I'm assuming). Now all of you backers to M2M are getting defensive because your little gem is just a hunk of ersatz failure. "Of course its the students who suck, not the film" is the general consensus around here. So "Mission to Mars" is a terrible movie. Accept it. Don't kill the messenger.--Saulot--
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I wasn't going to post anything here as i could realy give a fuck about American film students. However as a fellow ausie film school graduate (actualy I studied "creative arts" at vca not soely a film school, but still filled with the people this post is focesed on) I know all to well the people you described. I also frequent the nova (specialy on mondays, $4.50 for a movie kicks arse) and I'm fed up with these black skivvy wearing motherfuckers. I did the degree i did as I thought I might learn some much needed technical knowlege about editing suites and cameras, instead the aformentioned fuckwhits clogged up every lesson with their own gripes about a movie they saw, and how some french wannabee documentary on transexuality realy inspired them to add more juxterpositions in their mis-en-scene. It's fuckheads like that who end up making Australian films about generation X loosers who take a road trip across australia to smoke a lot of ciggarets, meet some wacky outback Ausies and then find their true self. The fucking irony is that given the chance those same people would strangle their own mother to go to hollywood and make Godzilla #3. Having finnished the degree and entered the glorius relms of the unemployed, I find myself completly disenchanted with the whole film industry, the whole creative industry, actualy any industry were they hire loosers who think theye are so creative and deep because their parents paid for them to go overseas every year and watch french films without sub titles. Fuck them all. he he hee.
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Hello all. Listen, I've got an intersting story to tell.
Alright, I'll admit it, I am a film student, at NYU no less. To make matters worse, I am studying not only film production, but film studies as well. (This classifies me as the pretentious future-Tower worker, the fuckwhit critic and theory snob, and the respectable history and academic buff all at once; how's THAT for an impressive resume?) To input in the first person, I was at the NYU screening in question. And you know what? I projected it. If you all looked back in the booth at the guys working the machines, I was one of them.
Hey, and to distinguish myself further, I liked M2M. The first 5 reels, anyway. (Even I can't defend it once it hits reels 6&7.) So I'm writing to address two of the major issues presented here. Firstly, I agree wholeheartedly the most NYU film kids are assholes. They have no ambitions of their own, no original ideas, no passion to learn anything non-film related, and surprisingly (or not?) no real desire to even learn film. Would you be surprised if I told you that 99% of the people at this school don't even know how a film is projected? They can't even fathom how the picture gets from the film to the screen. Further, they can't imagine how the picture gets on the film in the first place. (Mention "chemistry" to any of these assholes and they go into toxic shock.) They have little patience for each other, for their professors, and I would even guess for themselves.
But we're not all like that, I promise. Honestly, the 1% of people who I have met who differ from this stereotype (and I include myself in this 1%, forgive any implied arrogance) should LOVE the rampant stupidity, for it levels the playing field. If everyone to graduate film school were talented and ambitious, per person chances of success would be diminished greatly. Personally, I feel that I am well versed in the history, chemistry, projection, production, theory and pop culture aspects of film. In fact, it's exactly those "pretentious foreign filmmaker shit" that everyone has been complaining about where my knowledge falls short. Please don't stereotype, because I'm having a great time here in NYC and NYU, and think that this school, like any, is only as good as you make it.
The other big issue is that M2M really doesn't suck too much until the end. It is a Disney, PG-rated film generated for the pre-summer, Oscar time crowd. I am in love with American Beauty, but many people are not. M2M's dialogue is written for the people who don't know that breathable air is primarily oxygen and nitrogen; who couldn't figure out that Gary Sinese and his wife were the original two Mars captains except to be hit over the head with it; (relax that wasn't a spoiler); who don't know the physics of space unless the stupid on-board computer dictates them in true "Spaceballs" fashion. If you have the mental capacity to look past this Disney PG dialogue (which isn't new... anyone see "Blank Check? ), you can enjoy the thrilling and popcorn aspects of this film.
AND... Brian DePalma has made a number of great films. Ennio Maricone has scored dozens of fantastic pieces. Tim Robbins, Don Cheadle, and Gary Sinese have all starred in brilliant cinematic vehicles. To look at a collaboration between all these great artists, produced by one of the biggest creative companies on the planet, and dismiss it as a "bad film" or a "fuck up" is truly ignorant. There is a better chance of me winning the lottery, getting a movie deal, and having sex with 8 beautiful women all in the same day than there is the possibility of all these people working on what they truly believed to be a masterpiece, and then it turning out to be shit. Come on, really. Grow up. Are we in kindergarten?
Oh, and in response to Cru Jones's friend who wanted to start a fight... I was there at that screening. Had I the weaponry, I would have gladly stood on the stage and blasted away every last motherfucker who laughed out of turn. Not only is it rude, but I worked hard to put on the best presentation possible for you, and you have the nerve to disrespect that and mock it? What if DePalma had shown? The audience could make fun of him and leave with impunity, whereas I and Jeremiah Newton (head of the Directors' Series, which so kindly gives you ingrateful bitches free screenings) would have had to deal with the professional repercussions of such a poor NYU representation. Never thought of that, did you? Would you be laughing when Spielberg or Stone refused to bring their picture for a screening because of the rude NYU crowd? Honestly, you rich kids sicken me. Hire your own private screening, and laugh all you want.
Wow. Ok, I'm done. -
First of all, I choose my words very carefully and I never said anything about shaming the director...I was talking about shaming the studio executives for their shortsightedness in allowing their ambition to advance their own careers get in the way of letting the director tell his or her story. I support the writers, directors and producers in their artistic struggle against the bottom line oriented studios.
I apologize if I come across as a cliched snob critic, I'm not. But like all of us here, I am passionate about movies and it kills a little part of me everytime I see what could have been something special, marginalized by the almighty dollar. Behave. -
THE GODDAMN TRAILER DID. WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO LEARN HOW TO MAKE GOOD TRAILERS WITHOUT THE FUCKING SPOILERS?!? Certainly I didn't know for sure what that mammoth stuff and that creature holding the double helix was about, but I had a pretty good guess. These reviews simply confirmed my guess. Some of the worst trailers of recent memory (in terms of spoilers): Titanic, The Truman Show, The Negotiator, this friggin' Mission to Mars, and just about 9 out of every 10 trailers that are released. Trailers to learn from: Phantom Menace, Sleepy Hollow, Face/Off, and the best trailer of ALL TIME: Hitchcock's The Birds.
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To everyone who is criticizing film students and NYU in general: Fuck you. I am a senior in high school who was recently admitted to NYU film school, and I have a few comments about the responses that this article has created. True, some film students can be pretentious and condescending, thinking that they know everything about film and filmmaking. Obviously, this is not true, and this is why they are in school. However, do NOT criticize film students, do NOT simply dismiss them and predict their future at Tower Records. These kids are in film school because they are following their desires and interests, and not selling out by becoming accountants and politicians, just for the money. These kids know that they may not make it. So what? They care about what they're doing, which is more than can be said for most of you inbred bastards. Besides, what do you know? Have you seen Mission to Mars? Probably not. These kids have, and they have studied how to criticize films. So, I reiterate: FUCK YOU. If you have any problems with my argument, or you think that I am just as big a "loser" as these people, then fuck you too.
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I wonder if the makers of "Mars" knew that by generously supplying a print of their movie they were supplying it for review by a bunch of still amateur filmmakers who would publish their opinions on the internet. To read of the students disrespectful reaction (even if the movie is bad) was unbelevable. To read their review was even more amazing. Reviewing a film in this manner is akin to being invited to the director's house, screening it in his personal screening room, and then publicly (yet anonymously) trashing it. If this is how they react, as the harshest critics imaginable, will any filmmaker ever allow their film to be screened at the school again? Who would ever want to suffer this angry gauntlet of 200 or 300 potential web reviewers. Making a movie is bad enough (there is always somebody who hates it) why should a filmmaker ever again want to screen his movie at NYU if this is the reaction to expect one might face. As a filmmaker of over half a dozen "Hollywood" films, two of which have screened at UCLA's version of the NYU class, I question whether I will ever screen my films for film students again.
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Calm down Film school Boy!
Notice how he didn't even hide his identity with a cool screen name like ilovenyu.
However, he's right this movie sucks. -
Gosh - some rather heated under the collar responses going on here. This is gonna be a late post, I'm guessing, but hey...I'm last!??...whatever. Anyway, I was interested in Skoo's remarks. Much of the Talkback hasn't been about the pretentiousness or lack thereof of your average film stude - I have known many, and some of them are salt of the earth. And many great directors etc. are film school graduates. Others, though, - especially if they are mixing it up with Drama - oooohhh, they are seriously cleaning their teeth from the rear, if you know what I mean. However, none of what Skoo said dismisses the report that a number of studes at this showing behaved abysmally. And I am curious about the naive idea that:
'These kids are in film school because they are following their desires and interests, and not selling out by becoming accountants and politicians, just for the money.' There are, of course, other equally reprehensible reasons for following a career path, other than money. Let's face it, in certain circles, what is more bohemian and romantic and sure to impress people at parties - 'hello, I am studying economics. I want to become an accountant' or 'I am studying film. I am making a documentary on the ghettoisation of artists in Paris in the early part of the 20th century...'? Well?? Being a film student is a great way to pursue reverse snobbery, and the fact is there are many who do precisely that. As for dosh, my recollection of a large number of fellow students were that quite a few were from privileged schools and backgrounds - money for them was not much of an issue. And I wonder about careers too - once again I can only refer to the studes I have known. I would say fifty per cent at least never found work in film despite persistence and dedication and ended up in what Skoo might term conservative careers. It sure is sad that that is the case, but it is a tough world out there for the creative. Hey, any Oz film studes (salt-of-the-earth types that is!) want to offer a mid-30's research manager and former actor/film stude a part in their upcoming debut feature? Hmmmm? Hello??? -
I went to NYU film school and I used to be guilty of being a huge film snob. Try breaking into Hollywood and you lose that attitude real fast. Not every movie has to be the Manchurian Candidate. Some movies are made for pure entertainment value. And what's wrong with that? Back during the depression when box offices were booming people went to see fluffy musicals to escape their lives. Sometimes I go to the movies to be challenged and enlightened other times I want to not think too hard and be entertained. I saw Mission to Mars and I would definetely include this film in the pure entertainment category. I thought the special effects were great. I'm not a huge scifi fan and this movie had me going throughout. I thought the casting was inspired and barring some of the dialogue the acting was good, especially Tim Robbins and Don Cheadle. I would tell people to go see M2M because its a fun diversion well worth $8.
Anyway, just my 2 cents... -
Hi, I went to USC Film school in the early 90's and I'd like to say most of the cineastes there at that time wouldn't know their ass from a bucket of dimes and were simply wafting through their twenties smoking digital dope on daddy's dime. That being said, let me address a few sick truths. USC, NYU, AFI, Columbia and (I think it's called) the University of Florida are the only schools worth going to if you have any interest in going forth from flim skool to makee the movies. And Cal Arts and a couple others for animation I guess. Because these schools have some kind of connections, some kind of pipeline. They're in some kind of a loop. But ya know what? If you can't do that work, it doesn't matter if ya blow Stevie Spielberg, ya probably ain't gonna get more than a napkin and a thank you. And ya know what else? Just about none of ya can do the work. Bwah bwaaahhhhhh. (LETDOWN MUSIC) Too bad. Ya know how many of those goofoffs who mocked M2M, in terms of their own actual artistic potential, are statistically worth as much as the gnat that sits on Brian De Palma's ass hair and gives him even a moment's inspirational pleasure? Why, just about none. Bwah bwaaaaaah. (LETDOWN MUSIC REDUX) Sorry, kids. Just keep gettin' high and wait for that trust fund to kick in. It'll all make sense, don't worry. If you're thinking about spending money on any flim skools besides the ones listed above, save dad's cash, buy a digital video cam and start making your own mistakes on your own (dad's) dime. And to the guy from Emerson who wishes he could lump Emerson in with NYU ... this goes out to you in your deluded despair. Because in the fucking JLA vs. Avengers version of the great Emerson / NYU matchup, Scorsese, Stone, Spike Lee, Aronowsky and Shyamalan would take on ... who? You? Your friends? Joe Emerson? Who? Save your money. Trust me. We had some of the biggest hacks in the free world teaching at SC, but you could learn there what you needed to learn if you wanted to. And if you can do the work, and you're tenacious, and a little fucking vicious, you'll work, believe me. Sadly, there's no arguing with success. You know how many technical filmmaking Oscar noms went to SC films grads last year? Practically fucking all of them. Just like every year. So don't waste dad's money on something as foolish as flim skool. But if you/he must waste it, waste it smart.
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I'd really like to express my gratitude to all the people on this board. I have gained a deep insight into the arguement about the value of film schools. I also learned that I am an "inbred bastard" because I don't approve with a couple of punks who make rude comments during a movie.
In addition, I've also learned every plot detail of the entire movie, 5 days before it was released. I feel privileged that I am one of the first to know these, and will be one of the first people to not be surprised at all when I see them unfold on the big screen.
So, when you strip away all that sarcasm, here it is in English...
Have a little respect here, guys! I'm well aware of the fact that some of you have seen this and want to discuss it amongst yourselves, but please take note that the vast majority of us have to wait until the movie opens to see it. Those are called 'spoilers' for a reason. They spoiled Episode I for me, and they probably spoiled Mission to Mars for me too.
So could you please be curtous to the rest of us and keep the juicy plot details to yourself, or at least warn people when they're coming?
And Skool, if you want to convince people not to be judgemental, maybe you shouldn't tell them "fuck you" and accuse them of being inbred bastards.
Thank you.
Matt -
Drywall, must keep you up at nights knowing there are people like me who've studied film at the University of Hard Knocks and have gotten somewhere (quite far, farther then you could ever imagine) by actually doing the work and creating better body of work in my spare time then you doing it in your full time with all your faux -angst! You remind me of something I read in a interview with Mike Judge and his approach to life, no mater how wonderful you artsy types gush over a director or a painter like Picasso making funny faces, you can't get past the fact that the vast majority of the "unwashed masses" thinks the work sucks... no matter how you try to convince others otherwise. It's types like you who call splatters of paint on a canvas art. No, that isn't art, it's what I used to clean my brush, dolt!
It's a harsh world out there, junior. And you are going to find out the hard way how it feels when you make a labor of love and it's panned by the likes of Harry Knowles, Mr. Ebert or even worse... The Box-Office! Of all the people I know in the industry, I have yet to meet someone who had a vision to make shit out of celluloid. Every movie ever made was made from a vision, something I'm sure they teach you in film school on the first day. Unfortunately, that vision gets diluted by budget limitations, negative in-put from the studio heads, inadequate equipment and countless compromises with other people on the project. All this contributes to the final project being just a shadow of the original vision. It's tragic, having a dream crushed by the mechanism.
Ecaz-Digital Cinematographer@Large
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Judging from your vocabulary, I'm more concerned that you're getting out of high school AT ALL, to say nothing of what you do afterwards. Fact though: Most of us here criticizing film students have actually HAD SOME EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH THEM. You have not, so don't tell us what's what concerning an experience you've not yet had. Get back to us once you've had some experience with real life, or at least get into a position to know what you're talking about.
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Film school exists for two reasons, (1) give snobby rich kids somewhere to hide for four years while they help finance the University for people who really belong there! (2) Provide a service for equipment developers to field test new equipment. With out these two factors, the students who really belong (lets call them the 3 percent'ers.) there would have to pay an exuberant amount of money (more then they do already) on tuition . It's the content of their character and their portfolio that will be the deciding factor of working in Motion Pictures, not the size of the Trust Fund.
By the way, will someone please change Skoo's diaper and find his pacifier... he's getting too cranky!
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