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The Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day, you bitch! You never backed away from anything in your life! Now fight! FIGHT!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with today’s Behind the Scenes Pic!
Oh man do I love The Abyss. While James Cameron did use the film to help pioneer digital effects it’s still a master class of model work and great character development. While it’s not my favorite of Cameron’s movies it really does feel like it’s the lynchpin of his filmography. Everything he loves is in here. Strong female characters, underwater exploration, aliens, Michael Biehn, crazy-cool models, cutting edge science and military bad guys all wrapped up in one story!
I’ve talked to people who don’t like this movie and I can’t even fathom not finding something to enjoy here. The performances are so great, the concept is fantastic, the look of the film is perfect… Is it just me? I don’t think it’s just me.
Anyway, here’s a nifty shot of how they photographed some of the miniatures in the film. Very smart to build it to be shot as a panning motion miming a bird’s eye shot. Stuff like this is very nifty to me. Enjoy and click to enlargen!
If you have a behind the scenes shot you’d like to submit to this column, you can email me at quint@aintitcool.com.
Tomorrow’s pic lives in the water.
-Eric Vespe
”Quint”
quint@aintitcool.com
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Click here to visit the complete compilation of previous Behind the Scenes images, Page Two
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... and by dream, I mean nightmare.
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Avoided her until her terrific turns in Limbo and HBO's Witness Protection.
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The Abyss has been, is now and will always be my favorite Cameron flick. Would love to see the Abyss aliens (or something as cool) show up in Avatar II (possible, the buzz is that they're going underwater, who knows?)
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AND NO ENDING
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I need HD Ed Harris!
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Feb 02, 2012 10:38:38 PM CST
Cameron's only decent film besides TERMINATOR 1 and it still has a crappy ending...
by mentaldominance
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Feb 02, 2012 10:41:11 PM CST
The underwater aliens looked lame and their spaceship looked like Malibo Barbie® UFO
by has_snyder_been_fired_from_superman_yet
But up until that, I really liked it.
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Right chief?
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Feb 02, 2012 10:43:40 PM CST
Avatar 2 underwater? I hope there's no Sea Nav'i living in bubble villages like the Jar-Jarians (or whatever the fuck) in Phantom Menace To Society
by has_snyder_been_fired_from_superman_yet
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Feb 02, 2012 10:43:46 PM CST
What an underrated film. One of the great ones that never gets mention of being great.
by lowdevil
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Can't go wrong.
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. . . love the scene where Harris tries to sneak up on him.
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That would be interesting.
It could happen too, as both Avatar and The Abyss are at 20th Century Fox and are both Cameron creations unlike Aliens where it would set us geeks off the charts of anger if they combined Aliens and Avatar into the same fictional universe.
The Abyss though, feels a bit more in line with Avatar's future. I remembered when Avatar came out, everyone was contemplating whether or not Cameron meant for the military elements in Avatar to be sort of a tie-in/nod to the Colonial Marines in Aliens.
Thing is that the Alienverse seems a bit too down and dirty even compared to Avatar. Then you have the fact that he meant for Aliens to be a Vietnam allegory, while Avatar is obviously channeling the idea of Europeans colonizing the New World but set in the future on another world.
Combining The Abyss with Avatar though, could work as there aren't really any big story reasons holding it back from happening.
I would bet that Cameron will have some cool bio-luminescent aquatic aliens swimming around in Avatar II, that is if we get to explore Pandora's oceans. So if anything, I doubt he will come out and say it, but maybe it will be implied a bit and a fun thing for us to debate, kinda like how we always try to figure out if Alien and Blade Runner can take place in the same fictional timeline? -
I thought that Cameron was going to have The Abyss and True Lies remastered similarly to how Aliens was redone so awesomely on Blu-ray.
Actually, I'd love to be able to purchase The Abyss, True Lies, and Strange Days on Blu-ray in the not too distant future. Sort of a standalone James Cameron trilogy. Not to take away from Kathryn Bigelow, but even though Cameron didn't direct Strange Days, to me it feels like it could be one of his films. -
A L I E N + Close Encounters of the Third Kind + 2001: A Space Odyssey
Anyone else feel this way?
I don't mean in the sense that he ripped off those three movies, but more or less commented on, homage'd a bit, and built upon them too. -
A L I E N + Close Encounters of the Third Kind + 2001: A Space Odyssey
Anyone else feel this way?
I don't mean in the sense that he ripped off those three movies, but more or less commented on, payed homage to a bit, and built upon them too. -
Feb 02, 2012 11:16:13 PM CST
That's right. The audience was just too dumb to get James Cameron.
by margot_tenenbaum
Oh my god.
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In any other directors canon, this would be their best film. As it is, I love it almost as much as T2 and Aliens.
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I wanted to believe something like that exist at the bottom of the ocean. And the scene where Ed Harris is saved is perfect.
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Oh my god.
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Feb 02, 2012 11:52:03 PM CST
The reason the sea floor is vertical in that BTS pic is so it can be easily motion control moved behind the model, since the Deepcore model itself was a bitch to move.
by justmyluck
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my Iron Man dildo is out of batteries.
Perhaps some aliens can appear out of nowhere, teach me that war is bad, then give me new batteries and then end credits. -
be ear-bashed before the message sinks in.
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Michael Freakin Biehn. Great movie
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I came in right when Biehn was going to nuke the aliens and the sub chase happens. The whole drowning/revival sequence is some of the rawest emotional stuff and Ed Harris and MEM (not typing all that) sell it. It's just brutal. Though, it occurred to me this time that rather than wait for her to die before leaving the sub, they could've saved a minute on the clock by starting to swim back and when she passed out on the way, they would've been closer instead of starting with her as dead weight and time ticking away.
I've always thought it was 2/3rds of a movie with the good parts being Bud and Lyndsey's marital woes and the whole "Biehn cracking (literally) under the pressure." Then there's the ending. I've told people who haven't seen it, "When Ed Harris is sitting there at the end - you'll know it when it happens - turn the movie off because if you keep watching, it will only make you mad." Glowing aliens are weak when Spielberg does 'em; Cameron shouldn't messed with that junk.
As for the Blu-ray situation, WHAT THE F*CK, PEOPLE?!!? The Abyss and True Lies never even had proper anamorphic DVD releases and I haven't heard boo about Blu-ray. Heck, Titanic didn't get redone properly on DVD until 2005. I've got to believe that the Blu-ray will come after the 3D milking of the herd takes place.
I'd also like to know when Strange Days is going to get a proper release? James Cameron AND Kathryn Bigelow teamed up and subsequently went on to win his and her Best Director Oscars - she the first woman to win and he with the top two B.O. hits ever with over $4 BILLION in gross and that doesn't even count Terminator movies, etc. With all their juice and money, how is it a hefty chunk of their filmographies aren't on Blu yet? Strange Days doesn't even have an anamorphic DVD yet! Make this happen! -
The theatrical version's ending was kind of lame -- but, as we all know, like most of Cameron's pre-TITANIC output, they lopped off about twenty minutes of important shit, like the fact that the aliens held the world hostage with mile-high tidal waves over every major coastal city until they dismantled their nuclear stockpile. I realize it was for budgetary reasons (Fox literally just pulled the plug on the FX work in the middle of it being done), but I still don't know why they chose to do that. That would have been akin to chopping out ninety percent of the Titanic sinking in TITANIC, and yet, people still liked the movie enough that it eventually got finished and included in the Director's Cut, anyway.
Great model work, too. It's pretty amazing to consider that it was all done on a soundstage with varying degrees of smoke and blue lighting to simulate water ... and all done upside-down or backwards to further hide the wires (no wire erasure -- the technology was still a couple of years away -- or blue screens involved), plus, to preserve the battery life in the models, they were all rigged to shut off in tandem with the camera's shutter speed. -
I do forget about The Abyss. The theatrical experience was okay and bittersweet as it was the last film I saw at the great Cooper Theatre in Minneapolis before it was torn down. It was the extended version that I truly enjoyed and I believe it is the version that should have been released theatrically. Particularly the end of the extended version feels more cohesive and complete; a more satisfying climax. If I recall correctly, this version wasn't overly long, unlike the Aliens extended edition. It was as though Cameron just ran out of time and money on the initial release of the film. I look forward to owning the Blu Ray and revisiting this movie, though we all know Cameron's true masterpiece is T2 - the theatrical cut.
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My favourite Cameron film by a mile.
It's his one director's cut that drastically improves the movie, and also turns it into a better, smarter movie. -
I'd settle for a fucking ANAMORPHIC STRANGE DAYS, even on DVD. Fox shamefully only ever released it 4:3 widescreen, which means jacking up your TV set to "reading the fine print on Superman's newspaper" mode if you want to actually see it on an HD set larger than a postage stamp.
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Feb 03, 2012 1:01:25 AM CST
I remember my friend and I having to choose wiether to see Abyss or the Tim Burton Batman
by room23storeblogspotcom
Sooooooo glad that we choose Batman, I've actually never bothered trying to watch Abyss since, never had the desire and after seeing Avatar don't really want to.
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Cuz Avatar blows compared to The Abyss. Where Avatar has a completely unoriginal story to it with an ending you can see about 5 minutes in, The Abyss is fresh and original and holds up to date big time. I love Stephen Lang, but Michael Biehn owned his ass with The Abyss comparing their villainous roles. You should watch it, it's fun!
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The worst thing you can say about it is: Cameron over-reached with the ending. He was trying to do Close Encounters in daylight, but, as became obvious, there's a reason these things take place in the dark.
Now, where's the F'ing Bluray already. -
Is that the Skotaks?
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You'll appreciate the movie even more. It's almost Heart of Darkness level crazy.
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Feb 03, 2012 2:02:45 AM CST
Her tits are visible in that scene, but only in one version of the movie.
by v'shael
Did anyone else notice that?
I've seen widescreen versions where her boobs are cut off, and 4:3 versions where they are visible. How the hell did that happen? -
...sort it out Fox!
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My main complaint with the extended version is that the finale was overlaid with what seems to be temp track music. The news footage montage uses music from The Seventh Sign, and the ship's rise up the cliff wall is some cheap synthesizer track.
Come on, Fox / Cameron. Get Alan Silvestri to re-score the new footage before you release this movie I'm Blu! -
FACT! Cameron explores, invents and implements new technologies for EVERY movie he makes to help immerse us in the story. The only conventional movie he has ever made is probably Terminator. Even then Stan Winston's work was exceptional and really sold the menace that was the T-800. Thanks Jim. Keep amazing me :)
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....but you know I had to come. Love you wife.
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Definitely a great job done by Biehn in this film.
We'll nuke the site from the surface... it's the only way to be sure. -
Also missing in one cut I've seen (the UK VHS) is the shot of the rat breathing the liquid oxygen.
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Talk about double coincidence:
1.On Tuesday i send a tweet to Mr Cameron where i asked him if he was going to release Abyss in BR this year,according to what he said in a 2011 interview.
2.I was thinking that the BTS collumn didnt have a new BTS pic from a Cameron movie for some time now and i was going to ask to put one.
And voila,today you posted a pic.THANKS QUINT. -
and ironically enough it is the least popular and most underrated.fucking movie audience.
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Feb 03, 2012 3:22:16 AM CST
=A L I E N + Close Encounters of the Third Kind + 2001: A Space Odyssey=
by killik
FACT.
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Yeah I remember years ago Channel 4 aired a version that had the complete rat scene and was in the "correct" aspect ratio too, which meant MEM's tits were visible.
I think there was some controversy about animal cruelty, so almost every release of the film since has self-censored the rat scene with some really bad quality footage inserted (although oddly at the correct aspect ratio).
For some reason the VHS and DVD releases are all cropped vertically to create a more letterboxed image. I can't remember the exact ratios any more, but back then Cameron filmed everything in a narrower ratio which was fairly close 16:9.
I think from True Lies onwards Cameron switched to the wider cinematic aspect ratio. It's been years since I thought about this so anyone with a better memory please correct me if I'm wrong! -
Like how that bigass wedding ring saves the day. And James Cameron of all people would know the importance of a committed marriage, having been married himself, like, 15 times.
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When I got married, I chose a Titanium wedding ring because I love this movie so much.
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Feb 03, 2012 4:35:47 AM CST
@photoboy: Cameron switched to spherical Super 35 (2.20:1) for his feature films after ALIENS to TITANIC.
by justmyluck
These would have *usually* been projected 2.35:1 anamorphic for regular 35mm prints, or 2.20:1 in 70mm.
I heard in one of his DVD commentaries that he now regrets not shooting ALIENS in *scope* like ALIEN/ALIEN3. -
Saw this when it was released in cinemas...DEEPSTAR SIX and LEVITHAN couldn't hold a candle...
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Cameron's best film by far...The Terminator is great but The Abyss is just filmmaking at its finest. A severely underrated film.
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it is also a perfect example of Cameron's skill to write great scripts from at least a technical point:
little things that show up in the beginning of the story are used later to help the story progress.
That's why i keep shouting that Avatar's script might be simple but it is not simplistic.It thrives with such little details which provide the movie with a multi-layered content. -
Feb 03, 2012 5:59:10 AM CST
Here's the scene, just in case anyone hasn't seen it
by motherpussbucket
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NmU7VKd3VA
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I originally saw the film at my Aunt's house on her VCR and I thought it was "okay." And then I heard rumblings that the climax wasn't included in the film... and I came across the extended version on Laserdisc. I fell in love with the extended cut.
So nowadays when I run into people that didn't like The Abyss, I ask them if they saw the tidal wave scene. In every instance, they respond "no." I then tell them "you haven't seen the climax then..." and sit them down to watch the full version. Their opinion of the film changes to one of loving it.
As I recall, Cameron was told by the studio that no one sits down for 3 hour movies and he was forced to basically cut the climax and cold war theme out of the movie for the theatrical release. I'm glad he brought in the special edition years later. It makes such a difference. -
..... Michael Beihn in a career best performance.
Also, when I bought my wedding ring I made sure it was Titanium as one day I may be trapped on an underwater drilling rig and this could save my life like it did for Ed Harris.
Also one of the best making of docs ever produced on the DVD. Fuck the haters or fuck 'em as big Jim would say. -
Feb 03, 2012 6:20:46 AM CST
"The crane.....the crane......its on its way......down ...to you!
by masteryoda007
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoDDHZ_JZBc
Damn,Cameron hasnt tweeted again since last april.
Probably too busy with his Avatar sequel which means the BR Abyss remastering is at halt ,at least for now.crap. -
sue me, but I love that Alien/The Thing mish-mash
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"Look he's operating on his own. He's cut of from his chain of command. He's showing signs of pressure-induced psychosis..and he's got a nuclear weapon."
I always loved that line as the perfect example of an "Oh Shit" situation. -
I'm surprised there's only one mention of the documentary. It's worth watching.
Jumping into that big ass tank every day and trying not to drown didn't look like fun. -
Feb 03, 2012 8:17:40 AM CST
Could a film expert answer this question for me?
by shut the fuck up donny
I've been watching the Abyss quite a few times since it's been airing on cable again. I've noticed the film at times *almost* has an appearance of being recorded on video tape as opposed to traditional film stock. Does anybody know what Cameron did differently in that film to give it that appearance?
I'm also glad somebody mentioned MEM's boob scene. I knew I remembered it from when I was younger... -
Feb 03, 2012 8:19:17 AM CST
And I'm not watching the film on a newer, higher Hertz tv, so it's not that...
by shut the fuck up donny
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While I do like The Abyss, I don't think I'd go so far as to say it looks "perfect". To be completely honest, one of the things that bugs me about it is it looks like the characters are in a very deep swimming pool, which for all intents and purposes, they are.
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Actually the structure of the movie is much closer to 2010. Watch them back to back and you'll see what I mean.
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Loved it as a kid, but when I watch it as a grownup it really doesn't hold up. Yeah, Biehn's great, the effects are great yada yada yada...
But the rest of the cast are like bad sitcom stereotypes, and whilst I like Ed Harris - it's difficult to have any respect for his character in this, simply because he lets Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio walk all over him - and he STILL follows her around like a sick puppy.
The anti war message in the Special Edition is vaguely interesting, but so heavy handed it comes across as pretentious.
If anything, I think "Terminator 2: Judgement Day" is the Cameron film with the best anti war message. "The Abyss" is over-rated trash. -
I've met a few people who actually consider this to be one of the best films of all time. (Including one girl who likened her viewing of it to a religious experience, because she thought it was that overwhelming..)
As for what I think of it. It's my 2nd favourite James Cameron film. And that's no small praise as I happen to think the original Terminator is not just Cameron's best, but a good contender for best film of all time. (Not very fond of T2 though..)
But as for the Abyss. One of the best decisions myself and my best friend ever made was after seeing a section about it on Entertainment tonight, we upon learning of a limited release of the extended directors cut in cinemas that happened to promote the laserdisc, reserved tickets to see it in Glasgow. Good job too, because it sold out very quickly. Plus neither of us had actually seen it on the big screen in 1989. Partly because there was this really rubbish trailer going around back then that made it look like a bad version of Close Encounters. (The video release was heralded by a much better trailer that focused on the emotional conflicts, if I'd seen that one back in 89, I certainly would have sought it out on the big screen..)
And the director's cut on the big screen was frickin awesome! I remember shortly afterwards getting a pirate copy of it, just to have those wave sequences intact, which I kept until the extended version came out on video, and then later dvd.
And man, I still have that limited edition video on my shelf that had the making of documenatary on it, and a really cool booklet. The documenatry only makes you appreciate the film more, when you hear first hand how Ed Harris almost died for real, and how MEM went nuts at Cameron for all the hardships he was putting his cast through. Some great stories there..
Absolutely amazing film, with all three leads giving their best ever performances. (Though obviously Biehn is much more likable in the Terminator..)
Plus I love how things keep spiralling out of control in that film. I remember Empire had an awesome quote about the pressures on the lead character, which went something like:-
"At one point Ed Harris's character has to deal with cracking submersibles, psychotic Navy Seals trying to kill him, a divorce with the wife he still loves, her drowning, a potentially threatening alien invasion, surface tensions leading to a possible third world war, a nuclear bomb about to go off in the trench below him, and premature hair loss-ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!'
Yeah that about summed it up! LOL! -
Jim Cameron the only motherfucker who will not sell his soul for the corporate dollar.
I love you Jim, Your The King Of The World! -
...underwater! and bathed in blue light like every other Cameron film.
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Killed at least one stuntman on this. He killed one Warner bros worker on titanic. James Cameron cares enough to kill people for his art but not enough to give us even an anamorphic DVD
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Feb 03, 2012 10:21:30 AM CST
I hate movies that use blue light because I am a mugato from planet duh I noticed that there'
by ultratron
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Feb 03, 2012 10:21:30 AM CST
I hate movies that use blue light because I am a mugato from planet duh I noticed that there'
by ultratron
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Feb 03, 2012 10:21:30 AM CST
I hate movies that use blue light because I am a mugato from planet duh I noticed that there'
by ultratron
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Feb 03, 2012 10:29:21 AM CST
You can see her boobs better in 4:3 because 4:3 puts more into the top and bottom of the frame (oversimplified answer)
by jawsfan
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would he take it?
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Feb 03, 2012 10:44:04 AM CST
No, Quint, it's not just you... "The Abyss" is my favorite Cameron film
by willthethrill
Well, maybe 2nd to "Aliens" !
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I don't remember the specifics, and can't be bothered to look it up since I'm lazy... but... I remember seeing in a documentary once that explained most of this:
"The Abyss" came out in the late 80's when videotape was king and 4:3 tv's were still everywhere. It was INCREDIBLY rare to find a letterboxed movie on DVD. (I remember paying like $100 for a VHS boxed set of the Star Trek movies 1-5 that were all letterboxed, and the store only had it because it was the Christmas season.)
Anyway, Cameron actually filmed "The Abyss" using some kind of special huge film frame size, which allowed him to create TWO versions of the film... one for VHS and tv that was 4:3 and one that actually "cropped" the image to some widescreen aspect ratio like 16:9 (or wider?). If you look at shots of the video monitors on the set, they are 4:3 with like masking tape or something approximately set at the letterbox position on the screens so that they can also see what the widescreen image will be.
In other words, Cameron or the DP or somebody actually framed EVERY SINGLE SHOT on set for 4:3 AND for 16:9. They used the full film frame for tv and then the wider, narrower part of the frame for the theatrical and widescreen versions. So the movie is one of the few I'm aware of where you actually technically lose some picture when you are watching the widescreen version!
But I still watch the widescreen version. As a cinemaphile who has loved movies my entire life, there is something deep down inside me that gets irked when I'm watching an old 4:3 movie... I feel like I'm missing something even if I'm not! -
In my second paragraph, above, I meant to say "it was incredibly rare to find a letterboxed movie on VHS".
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The Special Edition is Cameron's masterpiece. The theatrical cut was a mere shadow of it with an ending rendered childish and silly.
Besides what everyone's mentioned, the dialogue is pitch-perfect. Cameron's best writing. Plus every main and supporting character's personality is rendered with appealing and subtle details. I love when the past-his-prime Catfish says a little ridiculously about his fist, "they used to call the The Hammer" and, once he gets his courage up, it turns out to be the fist that takes out Coffey later on. But as he says it there is a quick focus on Jammer almost rolling his eyes, looking like maybe he knows what the real deal is with fighting more than these guys ever could, but you don't know. Then that pays off later as Jammer with no warning turns out to be the one who bests the dudes holding the good guys captive.
It's details like this that make the film brilliant. -
Feb 03, 2012 11:37:05 AM CST
Was delighted to hear Cartman give the "never give up" lines during the Imaginationland episode.
by openthepodbaydoorshal
Love how South Park took a satire of Stargate (among others) and tossed in a reference to The Abyss.
And speaking of letterboxed VHS, does anyone recall the videotape of Manhattan? It was letterboxed with a WHITE border. Now that was bizarre. -
Feb 03, 2012 11:38:35 AM CST
Re: Abyss details..also love how Harris has to spend the rest of the movie with a blue hand
by openthepodbaydoorshal
after fishing his ring out of the toilet.
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That's right kids!
It's....
C'THULU!!!!!!!
(I would have loved the rig to have gone over the edge and into the cavernous gaping and tentacled maw of the Great Old One himself, C'Thulu!!!)
He'd swallow your soul but can't as he's cutting back on carbs. Sorry. -
Feb 03, 2012 12:12:30 PM CST
So her boobs were real? hm,i always thought that they were prosthetics.
by killik
In a later movie,a thriller with William Dafoe,she had a sex scene with him in a bathroom and her breasts there were way bigger than the ones in the Abyss.Unless the scene was done by a double but i doubt it because MEM showed her naked ass in the same frame.anyway.
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Feb 03, 2012 12:14:27 PM CST
Not one of my fav Cameron films, but I give him props for doing something original.
by stalkeye
Unlike True Lies.
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If i am not mistaken,True Lies was Schwarzenegger's idea to make an american adaptation of the original french film.I think he even had the movie right of the film to do that.Or was it Cameron?
Anyway,that movie might not have been original (but entertaining nevertheless) but both its story and action sequences were heavily ripped off 12 years by JJ in his MI3 movie.
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Feb 03, 2012 12:54:37 PM CST
I'm aware of TL being an adaptation of some European Film. However, it didn't translate well for American audiences.
by stalkeye
The middle part of the film was in need of serious editing. Wasnt the film also bashed for being Mysoginist (as well as Anti Middle Eastern) if i recall?
Fuck, it's unfortunate that Cameron didnt accquire the rights for Spider-Man otherwise, I wouldn't have wasted 2 hours of my life on this Movie. -
I hate titanic, and I watched Avatar for the action scenes, because I believe, truly, no one stages an action sequence better than Cameron. Even seeing the obvious stunt man with an arnie mask on during the reservoir chase in T2 doesn't stop it from being one of the top 5 chase scenes in hollywood history.
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Yes, those were MEM's breasts in The Abyss. They didn't fake it. Can't say for scenes from White Sands, which I haven't seen. But you have to remember, in The Abyss she was LYING DOWN. Real breasts, not implants, look smaller when a woman is lying down on their back.
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I love every Cameron epic like it was the next coming of Galactus
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So let me gets this straight almost all of Camerons movies have the exact same theme and he is a genius? Did a member of the military screw his girlfriend when he was young? Why does he portray the military as always being the bad guys. Oh yeah and Avatard sucked.
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The military are heroes in Aliens. The military provides necessary support in True Lies. The hero of Terminator is a soldier from the future.
What are you smoking? -
You didnt.
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Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio in "Color of Money", or Madeline Stowe in "Stakeout" ??
Hmmm...tough question.
I think Madeline Stowe has aged a bit better then MEM. -
Avatar the worst one. You know its true.
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I love how things just keep going from bad to worse in this film. I remember sitting in the theater, that scene where the crane starts falling toward Deepcore, thinking: "Holy crap, shit just got real!"
(Okay, I didn't think those exact words back then, but you know what I mean.)
And then, after the crane narrowly misses them, only to start sliding down toward the cliff...! I knew then I was watching something great. -
I agree totally, sapno. The "snowballing crisises" in the movie are just awesome. Had my palms sweating the first time I saw it. Great stuff.
And I don't know how anyone can get through the sequence when Lindsey drowns and then (SPOILER) is brought back. Just absolutely destroyed me emotionally the first time I saw it. -
Feb 03, 2012 6:15:02 PM CST
@willthethrill: THE ABYSS was shot in Super 35, or 2.20.:1 aspect ratio. The framing tape you see on the film cameras' videotap is masking off the *safe area* for 4x3 television.
by justmyluck
The video tap is attached to the viewfinder, not the taking lens. Many film camera viewfinders have scribing lines for *scope* and *TV safe* framing. This does not mean a Super 35mm movie like the ABYSS adhered to the TV safe area. *Scope* masking tape on the video feed means the D.P. wasn't bothering with 4x3 framing at all. A 4x3 VHS copy of a 2.20:1 framed movie like THE ABYSS would be made through what was called *pan and scan*.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_and_scan
While your statement, *Cameron or the DP or somebody actually framed EVERY SINGLE SHOT on set for 4:3 AND for 16:9.* is wrong, I understand the confusion brought on by older *scope* films being reframed for the 16:9 HD video aspect ratio, Super35 vs anamorphic, anamorphic film process vs anamorphic video, etc. -
One of the most difficult and challenging film productions ever. After the one-two punch of "The Terminator" and "Aliens", I was SO eager to see this when it was released in theaters the Summer of '89. It was such a disappointment to me then, primarily because of the ending, which I felt was abrupt, boring and soft. (Especially after the first 3/4's of the film, which was loads of hardcore-badassery!) But I finally understood and appreciated the film much more after the Extended edition was released. It's one of Cameron's best films and easily one of the best movies ever made underwater! (Seriously, watch the documentary about the making of the film; it's amazing! "Hearts of Darkness" underwater, indeed!)
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Feb 03, 2012 8:20:54 PM CST
@justmyluck- they did film in full aperture and crop for theatrical as well
by tears_in_rain
I don't know the specs for The Abyss but there were several ways of shooting on 35mm, including anamorphic, super 35 and "flat" which like anamorphic would use the whole frame but without stretching the image to fill it.
Instead you would basically shoot a 3:2 aspect or similar and crop to a widescreen format. For tv/home video they would literally use the full frame pretty much as shot, which meant if you had effects and so forth, those elements also had to fill the frame. Different from pan and scan. Sorry if my terminology is not spot on--it's been a few years since I've actually worked with film formats. Most stuff I touch comes in digital at an HD aspect these days. -
I always assumed Cameron shot with TV framing in mind because The Terminator, and thus the rest of Cameron's career, owes a lot of its popularity to VHS and HBO/Cinemax. I know it was one of the first R-rated movies I saw on cable.
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That is all.
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Feb 03, 2012 10:15:51 PM CST
My wedding ring choice was inspired by The Abyss as well
by turingtestee
Went with tungsten instead, felt heavier.
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Feb 03, 2012 10:26:26 PM CST
Far more mature than most all big budget sfx spectacles.
by turingtestee
So yeah, his best film.
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Feb 03, 2012 10:42:10 PM CST
Cameron's DP's were NOT dual framing for 4x3 televisions. See below v v
by justmyluck
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Feb 03, 2012 10:42:24 PM CST
@tears_in_rain: When you say *they*, you mean *others*? Even among neophyte home video buffs, dual *theatrical-TV safe* production framing is pretty standard knowledge.
by justmyluck
Super35 is usually framed *common top line* to maintain headroom with other formats and, thus, there is just a smidgen of extra area above the topline. Full aperture Super35 is also *wider* by nature, so THE ABYSS DP Mikael Salomon wasn't framing for 4x3. So, there's no way THE ABYSS was formatted to full aspect ratio 4x3 T.V. without pan and scan. If you don't believe me, here's the deal from Cameron himself:
*Director James Cameron, who has used laser discs to produce some excellent director cuts of his films, shocked purists recently when he said he prefers pan-and-scan versions over widescreen laser editions. He believes pan-and-scan is superior in many ways to letterboxing because of the poor resolving power of video. *The Abyss,* for example, was shot in the Super-35 process, allowing improved video transfer.
*The result,* claims Cameron, *is that the pan-and-scan transfer does not suffer many of the horrible cropping losses normally associated with a widescreen film. I feel it is the most dramatically involving and effective version of the film in the current low-resolution video medium.
Few agree with him, however.*
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-07-09/entertainment/ca-11529_1_letterboxed
I don't know for sure whether THE ABYSS was shot 4-perf or 3-perf (or a combination thereof) but Super35 *can* be transported 3-perf to save film stock, which would be IMPORTANT for maximizing the time underwater between changing film magazines. Let's just say that I can't imagine Salomon not considering 3-perf for Super35 widescreen underwater photography.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_35 -
I'll bow to the superior knowledge of others in this talkback, you guys certainly have the quotes and the technical specs to back up what you're saying.
It's possible I misunderstood what I read (20+ years ago) or that I am mis-remembering it now. But I was almost POSITIVE that the 4:3 presentation on tv back then had more image than the widescreen versions, not less! *just confused now*
And thanks, justmyluck, for being so condescending. I am aware of what pan and scan is. Sheeeeeesh. -
Feb 04, 2012 12:25:26 AM CST
the people who didnt like it probably didnt like sphere either, its the slow as fuck pacing and lack of action
by daniccus
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I was making a joke about being too lazy to look it up. I was simply passing on a memory of what I'd read years ago, and reminiscing about the days of VHS and pan & scan and letterboxed videotapes.
You and the other talkbackers are the ones who have turned this talkback into a technical primer. Some people aren't anal enough to give a shit about the details you are talking about.
And, yes, you were being condescending, NOT polite. Asshat. -
Feb 04, 2012 12:45:13 AM CST
I think it's that the restrictions of being underwater by their very nature made THE ABYSS not slow paced, but *episodic*.
by justmyluck
USS Montana sinks - stop. Retrieve a nuclear warhead - stop. Storm/crane sequence - stop. Sub chase - stop. Drowning and revival - stop.
Being stuck on an underwater oil rig really suffocated a lot of plot inertia.
The theatrical edition of THE ABYSS was so compromised, I think it's the only Cameron movie I would enjoy seeing fully restored for HD with a BLADE RUNNER-like *final cut* (i.e., as long as the other two cuts of THE ABYSS are provided).
The gathering warships and their activities could be filmed to smooth out the *top side burgeoning WWIII* plot line, which was hodge podged with TV news clips in the SE. The SE's VFX for the killer tidal waves, dodgy matte of the surfaced Deepcore rig (painted by Cameron - sorry!) and a few other minor fixes here and there could round off a *final cut*, IMO.
I love THE ABYSS for what it achieved technically and visually — and especially its astonishing production — but I find even the SE clunky. Maybe it's just the combination of Roughnecks and aliens, which always raised an eyebrow. I guess I'd like to see the whole NTI ship surfacing sequence affecting the Benthic Explorer, warship captains and crew, the general public and news stations all at the same time to a crescendo which ends on Bud & Lindsay. I don't think that's impossible to do as an after-the fact *final cut* polish. -
Feb 04, 2012 12:50:18 AM CST
@willthethrill: If the quote from Cameron himself didn't prove your THE ABYSS 4x3 framing claim total bullshit and humble you, I'll rightly assume you're here to waste people's time in cleaning up your little messes, like:
by justmyluck
*In other words, Cameron or the DP or somebody actually framed EVERY SINGLE SHOT on set for 4:3 AND for 16:9. *
Idiot. -
How some of you pretend to have wives.
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I have not seen Abyss enough times in different formats to have any anecdotal evidence one way or the other, but it DID bring to mind one thing I have noticed in another movie.
In The Matrix, in the scene near the beginning when Smith is 'interrogating' Neo in that little room (before they do the little mouth-sealing trick and the weird belly-button-spider thing), the bit where Neo says 'Wow that's a really great offer. But I have a better one. How about I I give you the finger and you give me my phone call?'
You know the scene.. anyway, in my letterbox DVD, when he says 'I give you the finger', the scene does not actually SHOW him giving the finger - it is too far to the bottom of the frame.. but in an earlier 4x3 DVD, you CAN see it.
It has always puzzled me, because I had always been led to believe that widescreen versions were simply recreating the theatrical experience, but apparently they are cropping too, which is a shame.
I have not yet got the BR of The Matrix (but I DO have the HD-DVD, although I don't recall if the cropping was in that version or not), has anyone noticed this discrepancy in the BR Matrix?
Oh and as for The Abyss: both endings blow. I love me some Cameron movies, but he is MUCH better when not trying to bash the audience over the head with simple-minded and heavy-handed 'messages'.
And it was a shame especially in The Abyss because everything leading up to the ending was so insanely tense and awesome and powerful, and then the infantile ending and it does nothing but piss people off.
Besson tried something somewhat similar at the end of Fifth Element, which worked much better too. 'Messages' like that always work better when it is a CHARACTER (Leelu) reacting to the evil ravages of war and strife, rather than the filmmaker standing on some arrogant pedestal demanding that you feel it yourself as an audience member.
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