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What Could Have Been: Frank Darabont Speaks About His Original Walking Dead Season 2 Opener!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. I’ve long been fascinated with creative near-misses. Perhaps it’s my alternate timeline loving geek brain, but I adore sitting back and thinking about what could have been, which is why I’ve been threatening to do a regular column on unproduced geek stuff for years now. I have hundreds of scripts, just haven’t gotten on the ball enough to actually follow-through.
You’ll get that column some day (probably sooner than later if a few irons I have in a few choice fires are any indication), but in the meantime I have an interesting What Could Have Been for you today and one that’s a little more timely than, say, an unproduced Hitchcock or De Palma film.
Recently, this article at CraveOnline was brought to my attention in which Sam Witwer unveils Frank Darabont’s proposed Walking Dead Season 2 opener, including some rather startling revelations on just how far in advance this Season 2 opener was being planned.
Witwer worked with Darabont on The Mist and is now the star of the successful American version of Being Human. I’ve spent some time with the man (starting on The Mist set, actually) and he’s exactly how he comes across in the below video interview. Very cool, very geeky (he’s wearing a Cyberdyne shirt, for God’s sake!) and very passionate about his craft.
I reached out to Frank Darabont for more details on his plans for the Season 2 opener and got a very detailed letter back, going step by step on what his original plans were for the episode. It was much more than I hoped for and gives a fascinating insight to Darabont’s creative process.
First, here’s video of Witwer’s interview posted by place called Paranormal Pop Culture (the interviewer was actually conducted by someone from HorrorHound):
Now here’s Frank with the follow-up, which sounds like it would have been fantastic:
Dear Eric,
Sure, I’ll confirm that storyline. Why not? Big caveat here though:
CraveOnline is much mistaken in saying this was for a “web series.” This was never meant as a web gimmick, this was intended for use in the actual TV series. I wanted to kick off the 2nd season with the flashback episode Sam describes, which would have followed a squad of Army Rangers getting trapped in the city and trying to survive as Atlanta falls.
The idea was to do this with a very focused “you are there” documentary feel. Not going all shaky-cam, but still making it a bit rawer and grainier than the rest of the show. We’d start with a squad of maybe seven or eight soldiers being dropped into the city by chopper. They have map coordinates they need to get to; they’ve been told to report to a certain place to provide reinforcement. It’s not a special mission, it’s basically a housekeeping measure putting more boots on the ground to reinforce key intersections and installations throughout the city. And we follow this group from the moment the copter sets them down. All they have to do is travel maybe a dozen blocks, a simple journey, but what starts as a no-brainer scenario goes from “the city is being secured” to “holy shit, we’ve lost control, the world is ending.” Our squad gets blocked at every turn and are soon just trying to survive. I wanted to do a really tense, character-driven ensemble story as communications break down, supply lines are lost, escape routes are cut off, morale falls apart, leadership unravels, mutinies heat up, etc. (Yes, this approach owes a spiritual debt to a number of great films, including Walter Hill’s Southern Comfort.)
Along the way, I thought we could briefly dovetail this story with a few established characters from the show. Not to overdo that, mind you, because it could get silly and too coincidental if you load too much into that idea. But I thought it would be great to veer off on a quick narrative detour that brushes our soldiers briefly up against some people we know. Picture our squad arriving at a manned barricade where some civilians are being held back from leaving the city on shoot-to-kill orders to stop the spread of contagion, it’s a panicked high-intensity scene, and in this crowd of desperate people we find Andrea and Amy. The barricade gunners panic, the civilians start to get mowed down by machine gun fire, and in this melee the girls get pulled to safety by some old guy they don’t even know. It’s Dale. He’s nobody to them, just some guy who saw the opportunity to do the right thing and reacted in the moment. This would have been perhaps a minute or two of the episode, just a cool detour like the various outposts the soldiers encounter in Saving Private Ryan, but we would have witnessed the moment that Dale meets Andrea and Amy, seen where that relationship began. I also felt it would be a great way to get Emma Bell back into the series for a moment, because she was so wonderful and we were all so sorry that her character died and she had to leave the show. (Of course if this “brush with established characters” idea didn’t work in the script stage, I’d have tossed it out. You try a lot of ideas like that as you go, see how they play. But I thought this one stood a pretty good chance of being engineered to work well.)
So the story follows these soldiers through hell as the city falls apart and the squad implodes, with Sam’s soldier being the main character and the moral center of the group. He becomes the last survivor of the squad, and he finally gets to the map coordinates they’ve been trying to get to from the start: it’s the barricade at the Atlanta courthouse intersection from the pilot where Rick later finds the tank. The soldier is still alive when he gets there, but he’s been bitten. He’s accomplished his “simple” mission, but he’s gone through seven kinds of hell to do it (including being forced to frag his squad leader), and now he’s dying. And he crawls off into the tank just to get off the street and under cover. As his fever builds and the poor guy starts to hallucinate, he pulls his last grenade and considers ending his life. He sets the grenade down on that shelf for a moment to reflect on all the shit and misery that brought him to this sad end-point of his life, and to dredge up the courage to pull the pin...but before he can act, the fever burns him out and he dies.
The kicker comes in the last moments of this episode:
After the soldier dies this squalid, lonely death...and after a quiet lapse of time...we do a shot-for-shot reprise from the first episode of the first season: Rick comes scrambling into the tank to escape the horde...blows that zombie soldier’s brains out...now Rick’s trapped...fade out...the end.
The notion was to take the “throwaway” tank zombie Rick encountered in the pilot, and tell that soldier’s story. Make him the star of his own movie, follow his journey, but don’t reveal who he is until the end. The idea being that every zombie has a story, every undead extra was once a human being with a life of his/her own...was, in a sense, the star of his own life’s movie. And we’ve followed this one particular guy and seen how his life ended; we witness his struggles, see his good intentions and his failures, and we experience his godawful death in this tank. That’s why I cast Sam as that tank zombie in the first place instead of just casting some extra. I had this story in mind while filming the pilot, and I knew I’d need a superb actor to play that soldier when the time came.
And then starting with Episode 202, we’d be back with Rick’s group and back in step with the flow of the established story from last season.
I always had in mind to throw in a “wild-card” episode every season, maybe as a season opener or closer. Just a separate story more in the feel of an anthology series, one that appears completely off the track of the regular series but actually does wind up tying in somehow by the fade-out. They did that sort of thing on LOST on occasion, and I really respected it. It always seemed like a bold choice that trusted the audience and rewarded their loyalty with a totally unexpected surprise episode every so often.
That’s it from me. I hope things are well on your end.
Best,
Frank
I love the secrecy behind this proposed episode idea. Witwer went uncredited for his brief appearance in the pilot just so there could be that extra level of surprise once they actually got to shoot this “wild card” episode. I also love Frank’s idea to set Dale’s meeting with Andrea and Amy in such a way that absolutely establishes their relationship as we’ve come to know it in the show.
Alas, it wasn’t meant to be, but it’s cool that we get a glimpse into what could have been.
-Eric Vespe
”Quint”
quint@aintitcool.com
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Readers Talkback
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... that sound freakin' awesome. I am profoundly bummed we won't get to see that wild card episode. Totally fits with the end season theme of the walkers are/were people with their own stories.
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Jan. 7, 2012, 12:20 p.m. CST
They should definately do more stand alone/flashback episodes
by Col. Tigh-Fighter
We barely saw the collapse of civilisation. The best we had was the flashback to Shane in the hospital as the soldiers start executing the infected. Plus, there's a good chance they might actually be exciting too, which is more than we are getting at the moment, AMC!
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Sucked ball-sacks! Damn. It could have been great too.... Indeed, Walking Dead misses you Frank
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...doesn't surprise me in the least. I love The Walking Dead, but how happy can that unit be when it was Frank that pulled them together? Would love to have seen that episode. It sounds like some of what they did with flashbacks this year was trying to do another version of what Darabont had in mind.
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I'd love to read more about unproductive geek projects, hope to see that column come to fruition someday (if nothing else you want to avoid the irony of having an unproduced column about unprodouced screenplays).
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Jan. 7, 2012, 12:43 p.m. CST
AMC's short-sighted greed is indicative of how many corporations in all industries are not only ruining their product but also themselves and the world.
by Karl Hungus
A heart pumps blood. The blood needs to get to vital parts of the body. If you stop the flow, the body dies. Pretty simple.
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Jan. 7, 2012, 12:44 p.m. CST
I think the flashback idea was nice but NOT for an entire episode...
by Titus05
a 10 minute flashback scene would have worked but doing an entire episode on the fall of Atlanta would have been corny...and doing it in the first episode of Season 2 was an even worse idea...only showing the present storyline starting with Episode 2 would have been a terrible move sort of reminds me of the Dollhouse episode 'Epitaph One'...I really like Darabont and his contributions to the show but I actually think the way Season 2 episode 1 aired was the much better idea with Carl getting shot at the end...I agree with AMC on this one...now the budget cuts are totally AMC's fault especially after Frank got them to work for less pay to begin with but storyline wise AMC was right for nixing this
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I think it'd be right up your alley...
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Jan. 7, 2012, 12:50 p.m. CST
God please let AMC see the error of their ways and bring Darabont back!
by xombygodd
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!!!
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but even with Darabont's involvement, the showed still continued to decline after the first episode. It's a shame because I really love the zombie genre.
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Jan. 7, 2012, 12:51 p.m. CST
So is this supposed to explain the helicoptor in the episode?
by xombygodd
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The best TV shows are ones that can stray far from the regular storyline/characters and bring it all back together in a mind-blowing way. I really would have liked to have seen this and hate that Frank Darabont is off the show now. Even so, the new season is great thus far.
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From reading Darabont's response, it sounds like he had a lot worked out, but hadn't actually written the script, wondering when in the process/how this idea ended up getting nixed?
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...I would love to see Darabont turn it into a tv series.
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Because they don't have it in them to be creative, imaginative, inspiring artists like the people they employ. The music industry is exactly the same.
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Jan. 7, 2012, 1:15 p.m. CST
A column on unproduced works/alternate ideas is just gonna piss me off
by ShiftyEyedDog
when we see what could have been instead of the bland, watered-down, generic, appeal-to-the-masses projects we end up getting.
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Jan. 7, 2012, 1:17 p.m. CST
More flashbacks, please!! and yes, for entire episodes!
by ShiftyEyedDog
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...had more creativity in it than the entire second season of TWD.....
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... sounds like it could also have turned out like Battle: Los Angeles (which sucked) so you never know.
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All this just to save, what? 35%?
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I'd sign that shit. I like The Walking Dead, but I think it would be way better with Darabont back on board. AMC owes Darabont for the success of TWD.
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My point was that 35% is a ton of money. You're talking $800,000 just for the season premiere. And quite frankly, the idea of doing an episode not about main characters as the season premiere of a show, when new viewers might be tuning in, is a terrible idea from a continued audience point of view. It means new viewers aren't going to get hooked for episode two, since the connection to the serialized characters is tangential. You do these types of episodes in the middle of the season... not in the opening.
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Jan. 7, 2012, 2:45 p.m. CST
Walking Dead season 1 episode 1 was bad enough there was no reason to watch more.
by golden tribw
So what the hell are you lemmings talking about?
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I do like the idea of giving other perspectives on the zombie apocalypse, especially if it ends up tying into the main characters' stories. BUT I'm one of those that's liking season 2 more than season 1. I was frustrated with how we were just thrust into this random group of survivors, expected to care about who lives and dies. I didn't give a shit when Amy died. "Oh, she's someone's sister? Shame." "Wild card" episodes would interrupt character development too much. Unless they actually integrated some substantial background. A few seconds of seeing Dale scooping up Amy and Andrea isn't exciting or insightful. Cameos? I'd prefer a 3-4 minute cold open about them instead. Yeah, hanging out on a farm for 5 episodes wasn't what most people expected. It's underwhelming in terms of action. But I'm glad for getting to know these characters more.
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... a couple of miles from my house that was apparently supposed to be in the first part of the second season premiere, but it's never been in the show. I believe it was intended to be an escape sequence that picked up immediately after the end of Season 1 (nothing like the "Black Hawk Down" sequence talked about in this article, though), but instead the characters started on the interstate when the season finally started. They spent a couple of days in the parking area of a high-rise basically across the street (Cobb Parkway) from the Cobb Energy Center (aka, the "CDC" in the show) last June. Lots of pictures in the local papers, but nothing like that area has shown up to date, and given that they've left Atlanta in the show, I doubt it'll be resurrected (pun intended). Bits and pieces of it showed up in the second season trailers (i.e., the shot where Rick says, "hell with the noise!" and shoots a zombie, there's a long shot of the RV driving away from a small explosion, etc.). Maybe they'll show more in the eventual DVD set, seems a damn shame to throw away that much money and never, ever release the footage.
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I thought that tank zombie looked like Witwer! *mind explosion*
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I love the "every zombie has a story" approach. And I get a real thrill out of creative people who WANT to reinvent the wheel every so often. Kudos to Darabount. Hope he takes his creativity to a company that respects it.
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Up until I saw this 'what could have been' I thought the show wasn't really effected negatively by Darabont's departure, I was really digging where the show was going and its tone. After reading this, it feels like NOT doing that episode was a lost opportunity, Darabont's idea of "every zombie has a story" would be great for one off episodes, fleshing out the world of the story so to speak. It would definitely add more weight to zombie killings, knowing their story as their brains get splattered against the wall.
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Jan. 7, 2012, 4:28 p.m. CST
Sparkely Vampires?? Cuddly Wolves?? Buttseck, YOU don't know what the fuck your talking about
by The_guy_in_the_rated_R_movie
Fucking idiot, Zombies having a back story have nothing to do with Twilight bullshit. The Walking Dead isn't a fucking video game were you just run around shooting Zombies all day. You have characters and a story, and a Zombie having a back story can add more depth to the story without losing the spirit of the genre. You are now officially an dipshit, and have my permission to go fuck yourself.
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I love how well thought-out this idea was from the very start of the show, and its really sad to see an idea like this go down the drain. Think of all of the great ideas like this Darabont could've injected into the show throughout its lifespan. What a shame. I liked him before, but after watching the video with Witwer, FD really seems like a great guy. I almost want to stop watching the show, even though the mid-season finale was good (thanks largely due to Michelle Maclaren directing) but now I might stick it out for all of these "trapped" people. Here's hoping some of Darabont's buddies still involved with the show help carry over some of his ideas.
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Would have prefered to see that then some of the dire epsiodes we saw.. the rest of this season has a lot riding on it. it's sink or swim for The muppets who decided to get rid of Darabount, if the rest of this seasons sucks balls you can bet your bottom dollar that they'll shift the blame from them to everyone else. I miss lost.
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Depressed now.
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I love this guy...when he gets fragged in BSG...and then when he's killed by the mob in the mist...this guy is making a career out of being fucked over and killed by his comrades...love it...
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they properly screwed Frank, and everyone else who came on board because of him. fuckers cut to save 35%, they could push that up to 100% when people stop watching!
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Jan. 7, 2012, 4:50 p.m. CST
Damn shame. Still watch TWD but it ain't the same this season...
by scrote
Still, I hope Frank's busy with either his Bradbury adaptation, King's 'The Long Walk' or maybe R McCammon's 'Mine'
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Too many boring characters given screen time whilst others are shunted to the side.
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we all weren't so burnt out on the Zombie Genre. Look, I'm a huge horror movie nut! Have been since I was a little turd in Grade School. I've seen my fair share, of domestic and foreign horror films. I did freakin school projects in 3rd grade, using tracing paper, and then coloring in famous monsters and films, on their traces. ( I miss Tracing Paper). Then writing a synopsis for each about their historical importance in film, and the effort put forth to create make-up and special effects. I could go on and on, about my love for the horror genre, and it would be better to get in a discussion about that than this tripe. Long story short: I'm officially sick of zombie movies. Love all the efforts up til now, but enough is enough. Making a zombie film is the go to thing for amateurs and big hollywood alike. I sadly could care less about this episode. I watched all of season 1, but you know what I just didn't care to watch season 2. Fucking boring. and sad.
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Fuck 'em and their bullshit and the pathetically limp shit fest that season 2 is.
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sucks AMC chose money over quality. So far this season has been soooo slow and predictable. You can tell the show is really missing Frank's great storytelling ideas.
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Jan. 7, 2012, 6:24 p.m. CST
does anybody know how to start a petition to get darabont back?
by robamenta
seriously..how do you go about that??
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Jan. 7, 2012, 6:34 p.m. CST
Witwer was awesome as Darth Vader's apprentice, singlehandedly starting the rebelion...
by Billyeveryteen
As Smallvilles' Doomsday? Not so much... This would've be great fun.
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I'm still perplexed why they would need budget cuts for the show. Is it because they are a cable show that they wouldn't be able to command higher advertising rates like their prime-time cousins?
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The fucking suits at AMC screwed over Darabont, big time. Now I by no means thought the first season of TWD was perfect but the second season has really not been up to scratch, and I would bet a large part of that has been down to what happened behind the scenes. It would be fair enough on AMCs part if the show didnt do so great but its THE BIGGEST FUCKING SHOW ON CABLE EVAR, right?! That just compounds what a bunch of total assholes they are for doing this to Darabont.
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Isn't real life depressing and hard enough already, without wallowing in all this fatalistic hopeless zombie apocalypse shit? I mean, if that's what gets you off, do you also hang out in cancer wards and crash funerals too? Just to soak up all that misery?
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Jan. 7, 2012, 8:16 p.m. CST
Great idea, but wouldve worked better as a webisode or a small segment of an episode...
by Tristan
I really like webisodes on AMC's website. If they wanted to make one full episode, devoted to telling short flashbacks of zombies, then that would be cool, otherwise, keep them as webisodes. It is a shame that Frank is not involved with the show, anymore. While I loved the mid-season 2 ending, the rest of season 2 was very disappointing. I hope AMC will bring Frank back.
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Would love to have seen that aswell. BTW I love Franks work especially "The Mist". Also I dont know why "The Majestic" gets hate, it's a great sunday afternoon film and Carrey's best film for me. Martin Landau breaks my heart in that film.
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I mean come on, the guy shoots everyone in the car including his son and then instantly the cavalry shows up. Whaa whaaa whaaaaa. "Do I have egg on my face?". D'oh!
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In Real D. You know you want to watch it.
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do we really need this show to move any slower, frank? Also, from what I've heard, the 2nd half of season 2 is fucking amazing.
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Thought they'd show a prequel to everyones life before they allmeet every other or third episode... And actually start from the very being of the first zombie and the manifestation of the zombies...
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Jan. 7, 2012, 10:52 p.m. CST
Wow, nordlings_catamite_buttsecks_juice , you sound pissed.
by Mugato5150
And your little rant would make sense if what you're describing wasn't already in every single zombie movie ever. It's always about the survivors and the zombies themselves have no explanation. At least they took a half assed stab at it when they got to the CDC. But then it's the same horsehit and broadly drawn characters.
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...but I hope love for the guy isn't the only reason so many of you hate on season 2. Show is still oh so kick ass. Don't care how slow you think it got . . .
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Jan. 7, 2012, 11:48 p.m. CST
goldentribe and nordlings_catamite_buttsecks are Robert Kirkman
by Wookie_Weed
He's a little bitch.
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I wonder if he had any part of the Sophia arc? That was some good stuff. Having the crew search for the kid the entire first half of the season only to find her in an emotional intense scene coming out of a barn of zombies? That was great. Should've been executed better but the idea was there.
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Is this idea still legally the property of AMC? Go ahead and make it, now!
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By all accounts he was still show runner for most of the first half of the season (everything that's aired so far), so likely he had a big part of that.
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I've asked this before but what is/was Robert Kirkman's thoughts on Darabont's firing? Why didn't he fight for him? It's his baby isn't it?
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Fuck, people, drop the first name shit.
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Jan. 8, 2012, 1:27 a.m. CST
Not only would that have been the best episode of season 2...
by amnesiac108
...but it would have brought "The Walking Dead" into the realm of seriously respected drama that it will eventually deserve to be in. Also, Quint, a column based entirely around unproduced content is exactly what this site needs. Cudos all aroud with this one.....
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Jan. 8, 2012, 1:36 a.m. CST
I think having those "wildcard episodes" would have been FANTASTIC.
by Ironhelix
This second season could have certainly used something like that, because I lost interest about halfway through. Too much time on that goddamned farm. Too much time looking for the girl. ugh.
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...and too bad you just got.......... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .................coxxed!!!!!!!!!!
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...feeling that season 2 was far better than season 1. Whatever budget constraints they may have had actually made for a more steamlined/character focused season, making it much more in line with the books. Being that it is such a genre show (probably the most on TV right now), it has the freedom to make these "wildcard" episodes, and would probably really benefit from them. It's funny that Darabont mentions "Lost" in his email, because "Lost" really was the last great genre show and really didn't do enough succesful "wildcard" episodes. They were too into their own story, though, and that's a whole other issue...
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Very interesting and detailed story. Would probably have made for a great episode. Instead we have series now that's quickly going down the drain. I didn't think the second season was terrible, but it was blatantly obvious the budget was cut. I constantly had the feeling Jeff Goldblum was gonna show up saying" Uhm eventually you're gonna have like zombies on your zombie show right?". The last five minutes of the last episode were great though. Then again the above story shows how carefully Darabont planned this show beforehand, so I wouldn't be surprised if that ending came from him as well.
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Jan. 8, 2012, 4:57 a.m. CST
I fucking lovvvee this idea!! The opener alone beats the majority of eps from the 2nd season.
by Stalkeye
Elements of Saving Private Ryan,Southern Comfort and a tinge of Battle LA?!? This would have further boosted the series' ratings.Now it's just another abandoned idea and a brilliant one at that. If frank's idea were to be told via ebook, I would "Buy that for a Dollar"! (literary) Fuck, bring Frank back AMC!!
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Overall, I am enjoying Season 2, but I understand at least some of the criticisms... and I think, to some extent, it is just the challenge inherent in this kind of story. What I mean is - I think the most interesting parts of an "apocalyptic" story are the early parts, when things start to go bad, when we see "normal society" being impacted by the (zombies, plague, aliens, monster, fill in the blank). That kind of thought-experience carries a built-in kick, the thrill of seeing the familiar mixed with the chaotic. As things start to settle into a "new routine", the tone changes. Which is why, I think, this "flashback story" - which is a way of cheating the clock, basically - DOES sound cool. However, I guess I am in the minority (maybe?) in that I am still enjoying Season Two. It is definitely different from Season One, no question, with a greater focus on the moral/ethical questions than on action, but overall - enjoying it.
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Jan. 8, 2012, 6:30 a.m. CST
creepythinman- sherlock is an infinitely better show in every way?
by Thomas
Except in the "TV shows that are about the zombie apocalypse" way. TWD still has Sherlock beat in that one.
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not sure if you noticed, but the series hasn't exactly been looking for a "ratings boost." It has had huge ratings, right from the start.
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A new set of characters for every season is an awful idea. I might be able to get behind it in a 22 episode season, but as of now? hell no. The problem isn't keeping the same characters, but making the ones they have into people you care about. They dropped the ball so far on Rick, Andrea, Dale. They can still bring them around I think.
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So I've heard. I'm probably about to start watching Sherlock on netflix before too long, so maybe in a couple weeks I'll be on board!
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If they end up following the comics, I think what happens next will be infinitely more entertaining than seeing where they all came from. I think one of the points of the whole series (and zombie apocalypse genre as a whole) is that it doesn't really matter where you came from. It doesn't matter who you were, the circumstances are going to end up making you do things you wouldn't normally do. They haven't done a great job of showing that yet, and they removed the major scenes from the comic that would go along with that sentiment, but that is how it should be.
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Not to mention they've reanimated the corpse of the Sherlock Holmes franchise.
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it was clear that the writers had no idea where Sophia was until the mid-season finale.
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Jan. 8, 2012, 8:53 a.m. CST
...Not Mad Men, that is. And the suits are doing their best to fuck up all of them
by mdk
AMC is run by r-tards.
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Jan. 8, 2012, 9:04 a.m. CST
But white peopld are crackers. I've never met a non-white cracker
by mdk
Well, except my cousin's husband, an American-born Mexican who hates "libruls, fags, blacks and them damn wetbacks"! But he's a Texan so it's understandable. Btw, noticed in the Repub debate Rick Perry wants to restart the Iraq war. Nice job on that double-shit of Dubya and Rick "The Brick" Perry, Tex-ass. (I'll exclude Harry's hometown... most Texans HATE Austin and would gladly blast it off the map if Texas had nuclear capability.)
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Thanks for talking to Frank about this. The interview with Sam Witwer originated with ParanormalPopCulture.com and CraveOnline commented on it, so thanks for spreading the word and getting Frank's thoughts. Keep up the great work!
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Jan. 8, 2012, 9:14 a.m. CST
I don't appreciate Darabont shitting all over the show this way
by gboybama
I mean, I love his work. But what they've done without him was impressive too. It was all too easy for him to crank out this email and get the Internet hate machine revved up against AMC again. I would have liked to see him continue to helm the show as well, but that doesn't mean we can't judge the show on its own merits.
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since he already establish how Andrea and Amy met up with the group. The problem with TWD is the dialouge and plotting. Truthfully, a zombie tv series cannot be about about zombies all the time and that leaves you with the survivours. And if they can't be interesting than you got a boring series. Which is what TWD is and the Games Of Thrones isn't.
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Instead of this, which sounds awesome, we get 7 episodes of looking for a little girl. Hang the writers.
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Even after Darabont left or got fired or whatever, they still should've done that.
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Do you watch episodic television? The Walking Dead isn't impressive. It's fucking boring. Watch Boardwalk Empire or Game of Thrones if you want to see impressive.
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Actually AMC proved smart as dumb people still love the now shitty show but the still fucked it up for anyone with half a brain.
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I frankly dont get them ..i do occasionally enjoy watching them but for Christ sake the whole premiss is so stupid,any halfway competant military force should be more then capable of of putting down any Zombie Apocalypse ...they run in packs and are draw to the living well fucking great let them come then frak them with napalm seriously most zombie films are just so dumb and seem to rely people doing the stupidest things possible..
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I found it really difficult to invest any time whatsoever in mediocre TV like The Walking Dead. If you're going to watch an entire season of a TV show, then make it count and go for quality.
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Kirkman himself said that one day he would consider doing side stories of the Walking Dead. I personally think this would have presented some great opportunities in the TV show. Just the way Darabont described it, I think it would have made an awesome episode!
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I got a lot better from the first episode (which sucked). I think they all have the acting chops and handle the mythologies of vampires/werewolves/ghosts very well.
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Jan. 8, 2012, 12:52 p.m. CST
hey quint before you do this "what might have been column"
by RedBull_Werewolf
why don't you finish what you started and complete your twilight zone reviews...seriously what ever happened to those, they were a hit and you just gave up
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Paranormal Pop Culture - The original question belonged to the Horrorhound Correspondent whose interview that originally was - it would be nice if you would give credit where credit is due. The Horrorhound video has been posted, showing that the question was posed by Collins and NOT Paranormal Pop Culture's correspondents. It's really not in good taste to post something that was not a part of your section of the interview. Collins is not your correspondent and was gracious enough to share his time with you so that you could interview Witwer as well, and this is how that kindness is repaid. Horrorhound is not going to post any answers to Paranormal Pop Culture's questions, as they were not a part of Horrorhound's interview, and it seems that you should have the courtesy to do the same. Horrorhound's Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gB0W0ZIHbg
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That's the douche that needs to have his career off'd...he's screwed over Mad Men as well. He's the hated tv version of Scott Rudin. I wonder if Joel has ever answered the door with jizz in his beard? Now that would be a coincidence.
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Really. This would have been such a great, creative idea, and the season so far has been Ok.
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Hated, hated, hated the ending of The Mist. Should have been the end as they did that fade back shot of the vehicle. Let credits roll there, you have a great ambiguous ending ala The Thing. Him shooting everyone just felt meanspirited.
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That most everybody tongue bathing the soldier idea would have the knives out for the episode if it ever happened. The nerd herd would scream that it deviated to far from the source material or that they are wasting precious screen time was extraneous BS and they need focus on the main characters story or that somebody is wearing the wrong pants or whatever is endlessly obsessed over. As far as the sideways episodes of Lost or BSG what a load of steaming fragrant manure that argument is. those episodes with Takes a Shit Guy on Lost or the miner's strike or the black market one are some of the most relieved episodes of both series. The retconning going over them is pretty funny to see.
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It won't be as fun to watch their heads blow up.
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They could have still done this episode, and then continued on with the season the way they did anyways. Or if not the season opener, they could have done this idea of Darabont's early on, maybe intercutting it with the scenes of tension between Dale and Andrea early on when she got fed up with Dale's overprotectiveness of her. And whoever said it would tie into the theme of the zombies were people once, was right. They had hints of that theme early on and in season one. The wife of Morgan (Lennie James) outside the house in the season one pilot. The death of Amy, and of course the backstory of the dude at the CDC having been all messed up psychologically from witnessing his wives transformation into a walker. Sam Witwer is a damn fine actor too. It would have been awesome to see him working with Darabont again. I loved The Mist. This was a huge wasted opportunity. FUCK U AMC!!!!
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I gotta say a few of season 2 episodes were boring, they coulda/shoulda wrapped up that story arc in about 2 or 3 fewer episodes. Here's to hoping for more zombies in the next season of the zombie show.
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Jan. 8, 2012, 8:31 p.m. CST
You know what? THE MIST could make for a good series or miniseries
by lv_426
Make it a spin-off story with a whole new cast that then meets up with Thomas Jane, all of them trapped in a different location after the monsters start coming through the portal again. It could be kinda like how in 28 Weeks Later, the military thought all the infected starved, but then the shit hits the fan again. Give THE MIST to Darabont to do as a series, though a miniseries might be a bit better. HBO, Showtime, maybe FX or Starz would be a good home for it so that it doesn't have to hold back on the scares, gore, and smart writing.
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Jan. 8, 2012, 8:34 p.m. CST
I concur that anyone who thinks The Mist was terrible is immediately suspect.
by dahveed1972
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Would like to see the rumored first hour with the characters hiding under cars the whole time.
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Jan. 8, 2012, 9:35 p.m. CST
The season premire would have made a better season one finale
by Turingtestee
Minus the CDC.
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think this would have been a cool episode. for season 1, episode 2. would have lead to the PRESENT situation. putting that story at the beginning of season 2 is just a bit jarring, forcing the viewer to go back in the timeline and then back into the present. I they were going to do that leading into season 2, it should have been about Jenner, his wife (GF?) that he had to kill, or something that would have been a bit more "Present" in the mind. and in Frank's absence, I think the time on the farm was well spent. the characters are being developed, pretty well. but the writing and dialogue are still quite dodgy, at best.
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That idea for an episode would have elevated the Walking Dead to the same type of show Battlestar Galactica was almost a decade ago.
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Jan. 8, 2012, 10:10 p.m. CST
If the other producers and execs at AMC were too scared to do this as the season 2 opener
by lv_426
Then why not make it as a spin-off thing similar to what BSG did with Razor and The Plan? Or as others have suggested, as webisodes that could then be put together to make a 90 minute stand alone story that could then be sold on DVD/Blu-ray as THE WALKING DEAD: Warzone or something like that. It would have been a cool little thing to release between the mid season finale and the upcoming finale episodes of season 2. They would have made some money on it, as it would have been a great Christmas gift for Walking Dead and zombie fans. Again, a wasted opportunity any which way you look at it.
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...and very much missed on the series.
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DO THAT COLUMN. BECOME THE HARRY TURTLEDOVE OF CINEMA
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Jan. 9, 2012, 6:22 a.m. CST
Thought to myself at the beginning of email: Oh, he's ripping off Lost
by proevad
but then he admitted it, so he's still cool in my book.
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I almost wish I missed this article. It makes the firing that much worse than it already was. Way to go AMC.
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Why did Darabont feel compelled to rewrite new shit when there is already so much source material to work with? I loved The Mist, but after reading this, I'm glad he's no longer in control. It would have made a good webisode, and the current webisode series already shows exactly what Frank was trying to say, that all zombies were people. It's already said and done.
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He said he would have wrote it that way, had he thought of it. I just had to throw that out there for all you idiots who like to hate on The Mist because you think the ending sucked.
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I think that TWD could happily include 1 or 2 flashback episodes a season. This one would have been a lot of fun for consistent viewers. Having it as a season opener is dangerous, esp when you want to reign in new viewers and not alienate. I havent noticed a particular demise so far this season, perhaps Darabonts departure hasnt kicked in yet. However it may miss, this sort of creatitivity if its not already been replaced.
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Jan. 9, 2012, 9:09 a.m. CST
I've been thinking. As a season opener this would have been a mistake
by OutsideChance
It would have confused viewers. New viewers would think the show was an anthology. Returning viewers might have thought they'd missed an episode. It could have ended up as the TWD's "Not without my anus."
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Darabont's The Mist (the black and white Version) will always be one of my favourite horror films.
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I went to see this at the cinema and I really felt there was no hope for the characters. Seemingly endless fog. Creatures way bigger than anything near the original town lumbering about. The music, everything just there to make you think "that's it, the end of the world". And for me, it worked. I really thought a lot more people on this site would appreciate an ending like this. You know instead of an ending we all see coming like in most films.
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I quite enjoyed it. I'd put it with moon, Source code even adjustment bureau as recent twilight zone type films that work very well for me I love the films take on how religious people are messed in the head and always make matters worse.
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Jan. 9, 2012, 11:49 a.m. CST
Like the idea, but yeah it would be a wierd season opening episode
by skycrapper
Also Lost is not a good templete to write your show from.
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That is a good list you got there. I have been jonesing for some new Twilight Zone style stuff lately. Or at least newer films in that same territory. That's a good list though redbull_werewolf: The Mist Source Code The Adjustment Bureau Moon Damn, I feel like having a modern day Twilight Zone style film marathon. To add to your list, how about: Inception The Prestige M. Night's early films that people see to like (Unbreakable, Sixth Sense, Signs) Dark City The Game Minority Report Cube Pitch Black (maybe?) The Others I'm trying to list Twilight Zone style films that were made in the past 10-15 years.
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Jan. 9, 2012, 11:55 a.m. CST
Pitch Black maybe fits more into The Outer Limits style a bit better than say, that of The Twilight Zone
by lv_426
I wish someone would make a new yet true to the style of Outer Limits/Twilight Zone anthology series or film. Black and white for at least half of it. Different writer/director teams on each episode/segment. Old school big idea plus twist ending mystery/sci-fi/fantasy stories that could be set in any time. Maybe a mix of stories set in different time periods to give it a more varied flavor.
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It's a favourite horror movie of recent times. I've never seen the B&w version. apart from the colur( obviously!) is there any difference?
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I saw the black and white version first, then watched the colour. I just preferred the atmosphere the black and white creates. If you love the film I'd defiantly give it a try.
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People didn't wait all that time between seasons only to end up exactly where they began. Sure us geeks would like it, but casual fans would have been pissed off, and they are where the money is. I'm actually surprised by how much I like season 2 so far. Yeah it was getting a little ridiculous that they were staying that long to find the little girl. What did Rick think she was doing, hunting fucking rabbits in the woods? But the hiatus break ended beautifully. By the way, FUCK HIATUS BREAKS! What fuckstick thought that shit up anyway? Was it HBO trying to fuck the cast of The Sopranos for their contracts that did it?
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I liked the sorta greenish but muted color palette of the color version. The slight greenishness works well with the diffuse lighting that being in a shroud of thick grey mist provides. The black and white version is certainly great too though, just a different vibe. It really does swing heavily towards the feel of an old Twilight Zone or Outer Limits episode in the black and white version. I guess it just depends on which mood I am in. Kinda like when deciding which of the five versions of Blade Runner to watch. The Final Cut is pretty damn pristine, but I really like the soft grainy and kinda dirtier and warmer feel of the workprint version a lot too.
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I thought the ending felt too forced so that Darabont could get the gut-punch he wanted. Why the fuck would you go through all that effort to escape, then shoot everyone - including your own son - without even taking the time to digest your surroundings and determine where you've ended up? Wouldn't you wait until the last possible moment before doing that? I just didn't buy it.
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Meh.
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Jan. 9, 2012, 2:48 p.m. CST
Hey Frank, this past weekend I purchased the deer eating zombie figure --
by MooseMalloy
-- aka Greg Nicotero. Is that cool with you?
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SPOILERS BELOW ----------------------------------------------------- I agree that the reveal of the army does come up too quick after the execution of the son and the other two adult characters in the stalled truck. Maybe if it hadn't been handled so abruptly, the shock/twist might have been more effective? What if he had shown Thomas Jane screaming, then pulling back out from the truck on a crane shot, so the truck disappears in the mist... There is then a SLOW DISSOLVE from the whiteness of the mist, back to the truck. The camera would slowly MOVE IN towards the truck. Tom Jane would be worn out from screaming and balling his brains out... ... then we just hear the sound of a ticking clock, maybe a watch on Tom Jane's wrist, or if the dude who plays Dale, his dead body in the back could have this faintly ticking watch sound. Tick... Tick... Tick... Blending in with this tick, we start to hear something that could be one of the beasts. Footsteps, a distant roar or howl. Think along the lines of the suspenseful reveal of the T-rex in Jurassic Park. Anyways, Tom Jane wakes up and realizes that something big and nasty might be coming to eat him. At this point he is beyond survival. His wife and home are gone. He just killed his son and two other good people. They tried but there was no hope. He gets out of the truck, waiting for this otherworldly creature to end him, even if painfully. A Lovecraftian shape begins to emerge out of the veil of the mist. He is ready to die. He closes his eyes. The beast is more visible now. Maybe one of those things that was in the parking lot... it knows he is there. It moves towards him... This is it... until... BOOM! Something blasts the creature from behind. The beast is on fire. Another blast, which blows the monster apart. Some guts and flaming monster parts splatter the road near a stunned Tom Jane. The final death roar of the beast fades into the sound of a tank, which then slowly appears from within the mist. Tom Jane steps aside and looks at this in shock. He watches as a few more vehicles pass by, like mechanical ghosts (no dissipating of the mist like the film seems to imply) that are gone again just as fast as they appear. The convoy passes him by. No civilians, just military. He stands alone again in the mist. (or) it would have been more ironic to have the Andre Braugher character there on the troop transport, instead of the short haired woman from The Walking Dead. Either way: The End. ----------------------------------------------------- Not to say I dislike the ending the way Darabont did it, but I think maybe a bit more pacing out of the surprise, plus that extra character moment for Tom Jane would have smoothed it over a bit more for those that don't like it. Although, I also like the idea of them just sitting there in the mist. The camera slowly pulling back and up until the truck disappears completely. That would have worked too. ----------------------------------------------------- END SPOILERS
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should read: ... then we just hear the sound of a ticking clock, maybe a watch on Tom Jane's wrist, or the dude who plays Dale in The Walking Dead, his dead body could have a watch on its wrist, just sitting there in the back of the truck... Tick... Tick... Tick...
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I started watching season two but just stopped caring before the last two episodes. It isn't that they were bad, I really dug what was happening with Shane, but I predicted everything that was supposed to be a plot twist. From certain characters being pregnant to barns being full of zombies, it was so easy to recognize the set up for what was happening next. I don't think the second season was awful, I was entertained a little, but I just didn't care. You can tell Frank Darabont had less to do with it than he did the first season. I like that Darabont is influenced by the story telling LOST used. I love that everything is connected, and even though a story might not follow the main cast, it still has an effect on them that we see or have seen. I hope if they continue this show they start looking at what made the first season so good. Maybe Darabont can give them script notes or something to make us give a shit.
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I like that. The trucks do come a bit soon after. Maybe like you said give time for him to cry and scream until he's utterly exhausted. Also for your twilight zone list "Frailty" and "Gattaca"?
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& so much better than the rest of the 2nd season. What a great idea. Such a shame we never got to see it & instead had to watch the walking turd-burger that was the rest of season 2.
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I hear ya mate. I think its because I saw the black and white version first that I prefer it. Either way the film is brilliant. Not sure if anyones read elsewhere about Darabont doing a LA NOIRE pilot for a possible tv series ?
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Jan. 10, 2012, 4:32 a.m. CST
King also sucks at ending, so saying he approves isn't much of an argument
by WickedJacob
Stephen King also sucks at ending, so saying he approves isn't much of an argument.
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..however, when I said frank's idea would further boost the ratings, I meant even much higher than what it is doing now. We'll see how far the 2nd season will do once the new eps premiere this Feb.
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He has admitted this himself. I agree it was probably a little early to start offing people, but the ending as a whole is very effective. It at least has an element of finality to it, though I would have loved a TV series based in that world.
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Jan. 10, 2012, 11:38 a.m. CST
The master of shit endings, loves The Mist's shit ending??
by Billyeveryteen
Will the wonders never cease?
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blocks away from the destination? Makes no sense, drop them there directly or at least closer. Take that idiotic idea out and I like the story. Maybe too much like Battle L.A.?
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It takes big brass ones to criticize anyone in Hollywood. The television and movie business or "Hollywood", is a lot like high school. Very cliquish, and populated with small petty assholes who have long memories. Witwer has a lifelong friend in Darabont but his speaking out has just put a target on his back with the assholes he is speaking of. Sam Witwer is the man for setting he record straight on the behind the scenes bullshit at AMC. Here's wishing him a very long and successful career.
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Jan. 10, 2012, 5:53 p.m. CST
meh, I Like season 2. It hilights how bad-ass Daryl is. Nuff said.
by mistergreen
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I just saw a whole bunch of Tbers shit on a man for trying something different and with balls the size of coconuts to boot. Just proves, stick to the Hollywood ending.... should have been the five survivors running into the soldiers with a Colonel with a southern accent saying, "We're kicking the alien's asses!" Then the truck breaks out into a "USA! USA! USA!" chant, as the Colonel hands the little kid a Rocket Launcher.
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Jan. 11, 2012, 1:49 a.m. CST
right on dougmckenzie, basically they're whining because they want their processed cheese...morons
by quantize
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It was a great story that I loved for many years, then they made it into a great movie that was 99% true to the original story, plus an added ending that made it even better. See, you can love the story AND love the movie. I know I'm not the only one, because anyone I know personally who's read/seen them both feels the same way. It's just you Internet fucktards who don't get shit. Despite all that, Darabont was poised to destroy The Walking Dead with bullshit flashback episodes, something that NEVER happened in the comics. Fuck him and his divergent version of an already great story that didn't need fixing.
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I'm torn on this one because while what Darabont describes sounds good, it's not really TWD. This is a book which is all about character: how ordinary people face an apocalyptic event and how even the best man can be turned slowly into a monster. You don't need big explosions and set pieces to realise this story. <b> On the other hand I've spent a lot of time and money over the years with this story and I really don't need to see same shit recreated on screen, so some interpretation or deviation is fine - and in fact probably required. You're kidding yourself if you think ANY channel would show some of the more fucked up stuff from the book (little boy gets raped and his daddy tears the bad guy literally to pieces? not even on HBO) so it's always going to have been different from the comic... <b> Ultimately it sounds to me like Darabont wanted to make World War Z instead of TWD which would have be fine with me but I think for TWD that grander-scale approach is unsuitable
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**** {{w w w }} {{surprisefirms }} {{ com}}
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**** {{w w w }} {{surprisefirms }} {{ com}}
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wwwsurprisefirmscom
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Jan. 11, 2012, 8:58 a.m. CST
Hey frank how about a Mist series? First episode could be a flashback showing why those 2 soldiers hung themselves.
by UltraTron
Ya know? I mean if they knew the army could just flamethrow the baddies away effortlessly why would they do that? Oh yeah you changed the ending of the book because you thought it would be a good idea but totally undermined the narrative that had been established.
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Don't like that so many works, starting with Nightmare on Elm Street, show people who have no hope whatsoever that they can win. It's defeat porn. Evil always wins.
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It would have been great. It would have had people talking, brought more people to the show. It makes me sad.
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to what we are getting this season, that "wild card" episode that obviously ruffled the suits at AMC sounds brilliant. And is brilliant. The long boring BS we have had so far is so obviously suits dictated (keep it cheap, not too many sets, etc). Sad to see true creativity STILL being shoved aside. You'd think we'd have learned our lesson by now.
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I personally found it so disturbing that it stayed with me for a good long while. I wanted to watch the film again but just couldn't bring myself to for about a year after the first time. I don't feel it was abrupt or forced. They were done. No gas. No idea what was out there just the sounds of what certainly sounded like monsters. So rather than have his son, the woman he'd come to care about, the elderly couple die in the horrible ways so many others had... he killed them. I was in there with him; and felt his absolute horror when he realized he didn't ahve to do what he just did. It was one of the msot effective movie endings in that genre I have ever seen . So what's the problem? Unless the problem is with people who HAVE to find problems with EVERYTHING because, you know, what would be the point otherwise to their lives??
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Jan. 15, 2012, 3:33 p.m. CST
For those interested, here's a great article on: What Really Happened to Fired Showrunner Frank Darabont
by Buck Turgidson
What Really Happened to Fired Showrunner Frank Darabont http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/walking-dead-what-happened-fired-221449 The two who people should direct their anger at over the firing of Darabont are: 1) Charlie Collier - AMC's president. 2) Joel Stillerman-AMC's head of original programming.
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with the current cast. <p> Show me how they got to the point where they are at now.
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Darabont really just wanted to use the name "The Walking Dead", not actually follow Kirkman's story all that much (if at all) and take the show in an entirely different direction. Right. Why Darabont would want to take something as well-written as the comic and alter it so much that it barely resembles the source material is beyond me. Darabont couldn't even get believable acting from the cast. I actually feel some sympathy for the characters this season. It's little wonder "why" the first season was so horrible. Thank God he's off the show. Even though this season has spent too much time at the farm, it's heads and shoulders above the first season. Kudos to the writers/director(s) for getting the show back on track and trusting the source material.
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This interview was not conducted by HorrorHound. Were they in the room? Yes. But just to be clear on a fact here, the interview was conducted in a roundtable forum, and not in a one-on-one setting. This is significant because when several reporters are gathered together interviewing one person, the answers to all questions essentially become shared content. It is still up to each outlet to capture their own audio and video, and to take their own notes, but the answers are for everyone. This is true of phone conferences, red carpet coverage, panels and yes, round tables. The "credit due" that you mention was not necessary any more than it would be necessary for you to list ParanormalPopCulture.com if you quoted a question we asked. This is common professionalism. It is unfortunate you feel it's necessary to lead some charge across the Internet instead of discussing this directly with us - which we would have been pleased to do.
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