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Herc’s Sunday TV Talkback!!
The Last BOARDWALK EMPIRE And AMAZING RACE Of 2011!! Yack Here Also About LUCK, HOMELAND, KOURTNEY & KIM, THE SIMPSONS, ONCE UPON A TIME And President Barack Obama On 60 MINUTES!!

I am – Hercules!!

 

"Boardwalk Empire" matched its season high in the ratings last week.

I loved Mickey Doyle’s big move trying to recruit the murderous super-Christian and IRS man Nelson Van Alden. I loved Van Alden’s abrupt exit from the post office. I loved that The Commodore gave his boy Jimmy a run for his money last week, and I loved that The Commodore died trying to save the life of Gillian Darmody. Did Jimmy immediately start porking his mom again following last week’s episode? I would not want to be in Manny Horvitz’s apron when the phantom assassin Richard Harrow darkens his door.

I encourage those who enjoyed the superb second season of “Boardwalk” to seek out Starz’s stellar eight-episode debut season of “Boss,” which bears many similarities to “Boardwalk” and is just as badass.

HBO says of “To The Lost,” tonight’s season finale:

With Nucky’s trial looming, Jimmy looks to make amends. After weighing an offer from Esther Randolph, Margaret makes a decision that will change the course of her future – and Nucky’s. Written by Terence Winter; directed by Tim Van Patten.

Right after the "Boardwalk" finale comes the pilot episode of "Luck," the new horse-racing drama from writer David Milch ("NYPD Blue," "Deadwood," "John From Cincinnati") and director Michael Mann ("Manhunter," "Heat," "Miami Vice"). It stars Dustin Hoffman, Nick Nolte and Jill Hennessy.

Showtime says of tonight’s antepenultimate “Homeland,” “Episode 11”:

Carrie's manic theories may be true; the Brodys visit Gettysburg.

Steve Kroft has a new interview with Barack Obama on tonight’s “60 Minutes.”

The snowboarders will NOT win tonight’s “Amazing Race.”

ABC had a tough Sunday last week with "Once Upon A Time, " "Desperate Housewives" and "Pan Am" all hitting lows.  ABC's decision to set an end date for "Lost" brought a big boost in ratings; the same strategy is not working for the aptly named "Desperate."  Did they ever solve the mystery of why Mary Alice killed herself?

Sundays, Sept. 11-Dec. 4, 2011
(Adults 18-49; repeats in gray; previous weeks in parentheses)
10.7(---) (---) (9.5)(10.3) (---) (8.7) (---) (---) (---) (9.4) (---)(10.2) Fox Football
7.4 (7.9) (7.6) (8.1) (8.8) (9.3) (5.2) (6.6) (8.9) (7.7) (8.3)(10.0)(10.7) NBC Football
4.0 (2.6) (2.7) (3.4) (3.7) (4.0) (---) (---) (---) (3.0) (3.9) (---) (2.4) The Simpsons
3.6 (2.8) (3.2) (3.1) (3.1) (3.2) (---) (---) (---) (3.5) (4.1) (---) (1.9) Family Guy
3.2 (3.4) (---) (3.8) (3.8) (3.9) (4.0) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Once Upon A Time
2.7 (2.9) (2.8) (2.7) (2.7) (3.0) (2.7) (2.7) (2.8) (3.2) (3.0) (---) (---) The Amazing Race
2.7 (---) (---) (3.0) (2.8) (3.1) (3.0) (2.7) (2.8) (3.0) (3.2) (---) (---) Desperate Housewives
2.5 (1.7) (1.8) (---) (---) (2.4) (---) (---) (---) (2.6) (3.1) (---) (---) Cleveland Show
2.4 (1.5) (1.9) (2.0) (2.1) (2.4) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Allen Gregory
2.1 (---) (1.9) (2.1) (1.9) (2.2) (2.1) (2.4) (2.2) (2.4) (2.3) (1.1) (---) CSI Miami
1.9 (---) (1.9) (2.0) (2.0) (2.0) (2.0) (2.1) (2.1) (2.2) (2.2) (1.1) (0.9) The Good Wife
1.7 (1.8) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Kourtney & Kim
1.7 (3.7) (2.9) (2.1) (1.9) (4.1) (2.3) (1.7) (3.2) (3.5) (2.3) (2.9) (1.3) 60 Minutes
1.6 (1.6) (1.7) (1.6) (1.5) (0.9) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Real Housewives Atl
1.6 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) The Hangover
1.5 (---) (---) (1.8) (1.7) (1.8) (1.8) (1.8) (1.9) (2.6) (3.1) (---) (---) Pan Am
1.4 (1.8) (---) (1.7) (---) (---) (1.5) (1.6) (1.4) (1.5) (---) (1.2) (1.2) AFH Videos
1.3 (1.1) (0.9) (1.0) (1.1) (1.0) (1.1) (1.0) (1.2) (1.1) (1.3) (---) (---) Boardwalk Empire
1.0 (1.1) (1.1) (1.1) (1.2) (1.2) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Next Iron Chef
0.9 (0.9) (1.0) (1.0) (1.0) (0.8) (0.9) (0.7) (0.9) (1.1) (---) (---) (---) Dexter
0.8 (1.2) (1.2) (1.5) (1.9) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Hell On Wheels
0.7 (0.7) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) After Lately
0.7 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Chef Roble
0.7 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) GLC It’s Christmas
0.7 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Neverland
0.7 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Virgin Diaries
0.6 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Austin & Ally
0.6 (0.6) (0.5) (0.7) (---) (---) (0.9) (---) (0.5) (0.5) (---) (---) (---) Iron Chef America
0.6 (0.7) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Leverage
0.5 (0.6) (0.5) (0.6) (0.5) (0.6) (0.4) (0.5) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) American Pickers
0.5 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (0.5) Cupcake Wars
0.5 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (0.5) (---) (---) Lizard Lick Towing
0.5 (0.6) (0.6) (0.8) (---) (0.6) (0.8) (0.9) (0.9) (0.6) (0.5) (---) (---) Watch What Happens
0.4 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) AMC Movie
0.4 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (0.5) (---) (0.4) (---) Curiosity
0.4 (0.6) (---) (---) (0.4) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Hallmark Movie
0.4 (0.5) (0.4) (0.6) (0.5) (0.4) (0.4) (0.4) (0.4) (0.4) (---) (---) (---) Homeland
0.4 (---) (---) (0.5) (0.5) (0.5) (0.4) (0.4) (0.4) (0.5) (---) (---) (---) Hung
0.4 (0.5) (0.5) (0.5) (0.5) (0.7) (0.5) (0.6) (0.7) (0.7) (0.7) (1.0) (---) IRT Deadliest
0.4 (0.6) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Real Deal
0.4 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (0.6) (---) (---) (---) (---) So Random
0.3 (---) (---) (0.4) (---) (0.4) (0.4) (0.4) (---) (---) (0.3) (---) (---) Holmes Inspection

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Readers Talkback
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  • Dec. 11, 2011, 7:01 a.m. CST

    Caught up on BOSS this past friday....

    by Bullet_time_Facehugger

    ...and while I was too busy watching the rest of the season to catch the finale friday night, I agree with you Herc, great show, with a pretty stellar fucking central performance from Kelsey Grammer.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 7:03 a.m. CST

    also, last week's Boardwalk was probably the most uncomfortable thing on TV ever.

    by Bullet_time_Facehugger

    They slowly, and painfully built to that sex scene with Jimmy and his mother during that whole scene. You know its coming, but they made you agonize as they shambled towards it.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 7:32 a.m. CST

    agreed, very uncomfortable and masterfully handled

    by Rebel Scumb

    I wish good shows could be more evenly distributed throughout the year, in a few weeks time I'll have gone from having too much to watch to having virtually nothing to watch until Game of Thrones & Mad Men return in march/april and whenever the hell Community comes back. But this fall I've enjoyed new shows: Homeland, Boss & Revenge and returning shows: Boardwalk Empire, Dexter, Bored to Death, Community, It's always sunny in philadelphia, Fringe & Clone Wars. Of these, only Fringe and clone wars will be back a month from now.

  • What will be Left to Watch on Sunday Nights For the Time Being??

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 7:55 a.m. CST

    When is A Game of Thrones Returning to HBO?

    by Ines5

    Also untill A Game of Thrones does Return, Are There Television Series on ANY Network That are Worth VIEWING?!

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 8:45 a.m. CST

    ines5, Game of Thrones returns in April 2012

    by Rebel Scumb

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 8:51 a.m. CST

    Boardwalk Empire is massively overrated.

    by I_Love_LanaLang

    I don't know what it is with some people. They will rave non-stop about a certain program and tell you that you MUST see it or your life will never be complete. So, you humor them and watch their latest favorite niche show. It turns out to be awful, wretched, unwatchable claptrap. Over-promise and under-deliver. Why do people so consistently do this when it comes to whatever cruddy tv program they happen to fancy at any given moment?

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:07 a.m. CST

    i love lanalang, what particularly didn't you like about Boardwalk?

    by Rebel Scumb

    I long ago gave up the notion that everyone would agree with my tastes. People rave about Breaking Bad and I really don't like it at all. I happen to think Boardwalk has become pretty topnotch this year (and was a very solid set up last year) . Excellent production values, and historical tone. Great range of characters, superb acting and writing. Interesting thoughtful directing. Literary pacing. What particularly didn't you like?

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:13 a.m. CST

    rebel-

    by cocolopez

    why bother asking. Anyone who doesn't think that Boardwalk has consistently been the best show this season in all areas (writing, production, acting etc.) has questionable tastes at best.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:15 a.m. CST

    I forgot to mention Dr. Who in my list of Autumn shows

    by Rebel Scumb

    But its over now anyways so a moot point.

  • Its worth checking out the first season at the very least. seasons 2 and 3 are good, but season 1 is by far the best.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:19 a.m. CST

    cocolopez

    by Rebel Scumb

    Because occasionally people actually provide thought provoking criticism and I find it interesting when they do. After all, I don't like Breaking Bad, which in many people's books automatically makes my opinion of TV invalid. I also really liked the battlestar & Lost finales. Which also under blanket generalizations makes my TV tastes 'bad'. They might have a wholly legitimate reason for disliking Boardwalk, I'm not going to dismiss their opinion just because I don't share it.

  • I could be wrong, but while many season finale's like to crowbar cappers on storylines, Boarwalk will not give in to this. The writing this season doesn't give that vibe like anything is rushed unnecessarily.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:27 a.m. CST

    by cocolopez

    You're right Rebel- your dislike of Breaking Bad does make your tastes questionable as well. Sorry man.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:32 a.m. CST

    I will say this though

    by cocolopez

    The first season of Boardwalk wasn't as superb as the current season- however that first season wasn't overrated- it was talked up pretty much as it should have been. Wasn't the greatest season of TV and relied a bit much on Scorcese-isms- but it was still great television. This season though the show really came into its own and became appointment television without question.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:39 a.m. CST

    I really wanted to like Breaking Bad

    by Rebel Scumb

    As I said I watched seasons 1-2 and most of 3. But I just got sick of it. To be honest I don't really think that show has anything going for it. There's nothing particularly special about the acting. A lot of the drama seems to be steeped in just random shock events like plane crashes, car crashes, explosions. The characters motivations at times seem almost impossible to believe. There's nothing especially noteable about the dialogue, which is in my opinion is servicable/functional but nothing to get excited about. It has a fantastic premise, but I just don't particularly like the execution. I also find it to be a bit manipulative as shows go, because it sort of poses as being a high end 'smart' show, but under any real analysis actually only really strikes its notes on a lowest common denominator level. And even that wouldn't be a problem if the show wasn't such a downer to watch. Shows like Dexter and 24 are both at times wildly stupid, and despite being much darker in content to Breaking Bad are/were both wildly entertaining guilty pleasures, because they knew how to have fun with their ludicrous premises. Breaking Bad always feels to me as though its presenting itself as a 'serious' and 'important' drama, and yet I have a tough time qualifying it as either. The show has heaps of praise both critically and from viewers, and I hadn't seen it until recently only because I hadn't made time for it. When I finally did sit down to watch it, it took me quite a while to digest the fact how much it wasn't clicking for me, so I just kept pressing ahead thinking 'it must get better', but I found if anything it just got worse and worse. That ending to season 2 is just about the dumbest thing I've ever seen (I won't spoil it though in case others who haven't seen it might enjoy it). Again that's just my opinion. And obviously not the popular one. For the record though other shows I consider to be very good: The Wire, Six feet Under, Bored to death, Mad men, game of thrones.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:42 a.m. CST

    cocolopez re: boardwalk season 1 vs season 2

    by Rebel Scumb

    I would say that is a pretty accurate analysis. And its one of those cases to, where season 2 could not be as great as it is, without all the careful setup of season 1, and building the characters to the point where we actually care enough for all of the shit going down now to actually resonate. It's funny that people argue so much against filler on tv nowadays. Yet, while I agree to an extent, if its all payoff and big events all the time, nothing resonates. You need some status quo on a show from time to time (especially the first season) so that the big shake ups actually have impact.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:43 a.m. CST

    Mary Alice killed herself....

    by David Riches

    On Desperate Housewives about three seasons back it was revealed to the girls why Mary Alice killed herself. She was being blackmailed over her son. She could not have children so she and her husband took in this girl who was a former drug addict whose boyfriend was in jail for possession. The former drug addict did not want to give up the kid and Mary Alice's hubby did away with the mother. The nurse who was at the delivery was the blackmailer. Mike the handyman who had the on and off again relationship with Susan (Teri Hatcher) was the boys biological father. He tried to kill Paul, Mary Alice's husband, when he found out and from there everything was revealed to the Cul de Sac. After that the show meanders for a season then advances five years where it's been for the past couple of years. Truly a prime time soap!

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:50 a.m. CST

    drax, Revenge has really picked up the mantle as a primetime soap to

    by Rebel Scumb

    All the trappings of a soap, but executed really well

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Tough night

    by David Riches

    I believe "Luck" could be a nice tie up show to watch while waiting for many other shows to return. Has Sunday Nights ever been as good as the last five years? Don't forget "The Simpsons" has thirty years into the future tonight, and "The Cleveland Show" does their version of the Christmas classic "Die Hard". BTW I personally think "Boss" season ender was both reciprocal and judgmental. ;)

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Rebel-

    by cocolopez

    those "random shock events" aren't entirely random nor do they have random consequences- there are consequences and chain reactions from every event in that show- sometimes that take whole seasons to pay off. The show seamlessly moves backward and forward all the while while the characters stay incredibly true to themselves- even annoyingly at times but always realistically. As for your criticism on the acting- that's a surprising one- but to each their own tastes I suppose. I liked Dexter at first- until each season became the exact same thing- Dexter lets a killer get close to him until "Harry's Code" becomes too much to ignore and Dexter has to kill his new friend. Became way too formulaic to me and honestly the quality just seemed to slip more and more each season. I tuned out after the season premiere following Lithgow's season. The only Showtime show that I found consistent was BROTHERHOOD which was their answer to The Wire (obviously not better than The Wire- nothing is- but still in my top 12 favorite shows). I don't know how you can say that Breaking Bad presents itself as overly serious- it's actually a very funny show- it's meant to be. I don't think that any show that has at least three comedians in secondary roles takes itself too seriously. of the "for-the-record" shows you listed- all except Bored to Death are among my all time favorite shows. Bored to Death- I tried. Such hipster trash.

  • she's been sadly under utilized by Hollywood in the past few years. I've always quite liked her both as an actress and for her obvious feminine appeal.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:57 a.m. CST

    Revenge vs Deperate

    by David Riches

    Sure I like "Revenge" but it's opposite better shows "C.S.I." and "Law & Order SVU" and for several weeks "South Park" so it sit in my tape pile waiting for me to watch it in one marathon go. It actually works better that way as a novella. Actually I wonder which series will have their female lead quit first "C.S.I." or "Law & Order SVU"? That's what I am watching for.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:01 a.m. CST

    cocolopez, Bored to Death I definitely don't expect everyone to like

    by Rebel Scumb

    When it comes to comedy stuff its rare for me to find anything I like, and there's almost no real logic or criteria for what it will be. Oddly enough I'm not into pot at all, but still find the show deeply amusing despite its pot related humour being so prevelant. But then I'm not jewish either and that doesn't seem to affect it either. Dexter I agree has slipped the past 2 seasons, I still find it enjoyable to watch, but the key is they need to pay off the ending. While I don't agree with many that an ending can make or break most shows, I do think Dexter sets out with a specific promise to the audience about Dexter either being or not being caught, which needs addressing. I think the show peaked with season 4 (the lithgow season) and has been in a holding pattern until then. Even so though, I've enjoyed it, just like I enjoyed some of the lesser seasons of 24 (although I thought 24 season 6 was awful!) . But as you said, to each there own, which was my point overall.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:03 a.m. CST

    drax

    by Rebel Scumb

    I don't watch CSI or Law and order (although use to watch the original L&A years ago) so Revenge is my only Wednesday show. It's a show I'm surprised I like as much as I do, and I only checked out due to overwelmingly positive talkback word of mouth, but I'm glad I did.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:07 a.m. CST

    What's Boss about?

    by vadakinX

    Boss is a show that I haven't watched but I've been hearing good things about it. I'm thinking of catching up with a few shows during the next few months until Thrones comes back and Boss is one of the shows I'm looking at. So what's it about? Is it comparable to any other shows? I'd like to ask the same question about Revenge. Oh and Rebel, I too liked the BSG finale. I never got the hate over that. Sure, god did it...but that was being hinted at way back in Season 1. OK, I could have done without the flashbacks, specifically Adama throwing up on himself but overall I found the finale pretty satisfying.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:08 a.m. CST

    Dexter ran into problems

    by David Riches

    Dexter ran into problems when it digressed from the books after the first season. The third novel is basically the background to the current season. The problem is Dexter has no idea how to logically take it's viewers into the proper path and a a result is alienating everyone this season.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:12 a.m. CST

    Good lord...

    by dukeroberts

    Is the President on TV again tonight? He never shuts up. I have never known of another man who loved the sound of his own voice so much as this President, or one who loved being on TV more.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:18 a.m. CST

    Not liking Boardwalk Empire...

    by Bullet_time_Facehugger

    I wonder if those that don't like Boardwalk Empire are the same who couldn't get into the early seasons of LOST right away. The show is definitely an extremely slow burn, like the early seasons of LOST were. I found the first few episodes of Boardwalk's first season to be inert, until I watched a bunch of them VOD over an evening. Like LOST, I think viewers who are initially turned off by it in a weekly presentation might benefit from giving it a second viewing in bulk. Or not, to each his/her own...

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:24 a.m. CST

    "Boss" is about ruling Heck!

    by David Riches

    "Boss" is about Kelsey Grammer as Thomas Kaine the mayor of Chicago and the most powerful man in the state, even the governor answers to him. The opening episode sets the premise for the series. Kelsey gets an under the table medical report giving him a year of cognitive living left and four years of real living until a degenerative neural disease leaves him in a hallucinogenic moody vegetative state. To control things he plans long term and plans HARD. Union leader doesn't listen so he has the guys ears cut off and sent to him. Needs the drugs o he gets them from his daughter who works in a clinic. The govenor's race, the airport expansion, the poisoning of a suburb, the investigative news, the affairs, just paint the backdrop for the world we are seeing. It just gets nastier as it goes on. The theme song may say it all "Satan tear down you walls".

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:35 a.m. CST

    vadakink

    by Rebel Scumb

    re: BSG finale, glad to see I'm not the only one. I thought as finales went it was just about as fullfilling an ending as i could have hoped for. Hit all the notes I wanted, gave each character their moment. My only minor dissappointment was I thought the big battle should have had Starbuck and Apollo back in Vipers as pilots instead of part of the ground assault, only because those 2 as hot shot pilots is an inconic part of both versions of the show, and would not have disrupted the plot at all. But thats a very minor aesthetic issue. re: Boss: Kelsey Grammer plays a tough as nails ruthless mayor of Chicago dealing with enemies without and within as he secretly grapples with a life threatening progressive neurological disease. re: Revenge: A young girl's executive father is framed for funding a terrorist group which caused a plane crash and sent to prison for treason, destroying her life. 15 years later she had changed her identity and returned to the Hamptons to enact revenge on all the rich white bitches and assholes responsible for her families downfall. its soapy and sultry and has tons of hot women and fiendish plotting. A grade A guilty pleasure.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:37 a.m. CST

    I like "Boardwalk Empire"

    by David Riches

    I mean it I like "Boardwalk Empire". Every episode feels like a tiny film. The last two episodes were filled with punch to the guts. Did anyone notice we never hear Jimmy get the actual news that and how his wife died? Except in the recap we had no Manny. How will anyone know? Was anyone else moved by Richard's sorrow over the blood of Jimmy' wife? Does anyone else feel telegraphed that Nucky will marry Mrs Schroeder to stop her testimony? Will it be a big funeral for the Commodore? Will we see any of Van Alden before next season? There are way too many questions to be contained in the season finale tonight.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:39 a.m. CST

    bullet time facehugger

    by Rebel Scumb

    That could be. I find it often correlates with whether people are really big into books. The Wire, Boardwalk Empire, Lost all follow the format more of a large complex novel than they do a tv show or movie. Game of thrones is another example but it because it is actually based on novels. Books take their time, they entertain tangents, long abscences from main characters, slow burn and foreshadowing. I think that might be part of it. In general I find more and more that TV shows are best enjoyed during short dvd/blu-ray binges of whole seasons as opposed to being spread out over several months week by week.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Boardwalk question

    by Rebel Scumb

    I've been trying to remember... what was the catalyst in season 1 that lead to Jimmy turning against Nucky??? I can remember almost everything from season 1 except this one major detail.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:45 a.m. CST

    I'm curious about American Horror Story

    by Rebel Scumb

    Everyone I've asked either says its amazing, or absolute garbage. But I'm also not into Horror movies at all, so even if it is good I'm not sure its a good fit for me.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Jimmy turned against Nucky

    by David Riches

    Jimmy turned against Nucky for ambition. Pure and simple he wanted more money and action and Nucky was not giving enough so when Jimmy went on his own to rip off a shipment of booze, Nucky figured it out and said he couldn't trust Jimmy so you find Jimmy was cut out. Except by this point Jimmy had already made friends with Capone and others and got his mother to help build the new empire with the old head of the town Jimmy's biological father The Commodore.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 11:07 a.m. CST

    My two cents.

    by BangoSkank

    I think Boardwalk Empire has been brilliant. I wasn't sure it would be my cup o'tea, but I fucking love it. At this point I'm only watching Dexter because my wife still likes it. The Hank kid sucks, Dexter's inner conflict is tiresome, and the big twists have been obvious. Homeland and American Horror are the only two new shows that made the cut for me. Of the two, I would recommend Homeland, just because I think it would appeal to a broader audience... But I dig the shit out of AHS, and would recommend anyone interested to give it a shot.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 11:11 a.m. CST

    Yeah Homeland has been pretty great

    by Rebel Scumb

    Very curious to see how they approach season 2, whether the Brody story will continue or it moves onto something else like 24 did. Either way I'll be watching. Homeland, Revenge & Boss have been the only new shows I've gotten into this season.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 11:13 a.m. CST

    thanks drax

    by Rebel Scumb

    I knew it was something like that but couldn't remember the details or if it was one big specific thing that had caused the rift. Looking forward to season 1 finally coming out on blu-ray next month (wonder why they didn't have it out before season 2 started???) and getting to revisit that first batch of episodes.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Dexters downfall

    by tomdolan04

    reminds me somewhat of 24 - the patterns and character events that occurred in the first seasons have now been taken as a 'this is a how you write an episode of Dexter / 24' <p> Wheres the jack sack today? Oh there it is. Where's Harry's ghost spouting reems and reems of cod philosophy monologues? Yep there. People in the supposed creme of Government organizations unable to join simple dots together until the last episode whereby everyones like 'Oh OH yeah, the dude is doing that we better call in the troops and hit the reset button in the first episode of next season'. <p> You may argue that 24 didn't do this as Jack was sacked / retired / kidnapped to China / Given massive amounts of therapy to help him recover from lethal radiation at the end of their seasons..(errm yeah!) - but ultimately within one episode he was back at CTU on a friggin provisional end of day basis. Don't get me wrong, they are both great conceptual shows with leads that elevates some of the more turgid material to respectability - but it is because of such strong characters that if the writers and producers just deviated from the formulaic conventions a bit, they could have had bona fide classic television drama. <p> It's not cool when each episode follows these conventions (kill of week, building to big bad...especially when the big bad this year is Colin 'Not threatening at all' Hanks) - I don't want to play 'Dexter Bingo' each week as a fan. I want well written thrilling TV.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 12:16 p.m. CST

    And before someone cites the Roadtrip ep...

    by tomdolan04

    as deviation from formula, yeah deviate...but not be shit. Too much to ask? <p> The arguments with his brother and Trinity's son (I winced when he said 'Hello Dexter Morgan' - way to completely rape the best delivered line in Series 4 guys!), plus the whole concept of going there was just plain embarassing. <p>

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 12:21 p.m. CST

    tomdolan04

    by Rebel Scumb

    Your analysis of both shows is pretty spot on, and I've always considered Dexter the spiritual successor to 24 even though contentwise they could not be more different. But having said that, I don't think the achievements of either show at their best should be undermined by their lesser outings 24 especially, for all the mockery it gets now (and most of it deservedly so) was way ahead of its time and did have a huge influence of television as whole as it opened the door for highly serialized mainstream shows with movie level production values. Shows looked pretty bland for the most part before 24, and most networks considered serialization the 'S' word. I don't think we would have had Lost, or Battlestar or necessarily even some of the big HBO stuff like Game of Thrones or Boardwalk if 24 hadn't have come along when it did. Some might argue that point, but I still think it was pretty revolutionary. Also between Kiefer on 24, and Martin Sheen on the West Wing they also smashed down the decades old taboo about 'movie stars' headlining television shows. If anything I think a lot of respected actors now see that all the best writing is on television these days. But for a long time it was very difficult for TV actors to make the transition to feature films, and almost completely unheard of for movie stars to appear on TV except for the odd cameo. Not the case at all anymore. But then I also don't see why for people who hate the finales for certain shows (Lost and BSG and X-files being 3 big targets) somehow think this retroactively ruins all the great episodes that came before. I mean fast forward to say 3 years from now and a theoretical Boardwalk series finale. Even if it was the worst episode of television ever created, it wouldn't make the episodes we're watching now any less great. Again, just my opinion, but I'm sticking to it.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 12:22 p.m. CST

    I actually really liked that road trip one

    by Rebel Scumb

    But I think I'm alone on that.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 12:43 p.m. CST

    rebel scumb

    by VoiceOfSaruman

    Yeah, on one hand I want to say everyone's subjective perspective and opinion is valid, and on the other, I want to say you don't know what good television is. The road trip Dexter episode sucked because it was a non-sequitur, didn't affect anything before or after it, it was just a shameless ploy to loop in some stuff from more popular seasons. And now it's forgotten. Breaking Bad is brilliant and funny and deep with the best acting I've ever seen on TV. You don't have to agree with that superlative but the fact that you say basically the opposite is a bit scary. Or maybe you are just under 30 or something haha.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Rebel

    by tomdolan04

    Again don't take my spiel above as completely negative - even in the silliest years of 24 (I still can't hear the word 'cougar' without laughing and it ain't because of the show with Courtney Cox in!), it was still epic because you had some AMAZING work from Sutherland, Haysbert, Itzen et al. <p> It's just a shame they couldn't see fit not to tie it to CTU and not have a game of 'whack a mole' every other week which would send the building into lockdown and prompt a stupid director from another office to come in, take over, make STUPID decisions and piss off Chloe enough for four episodes before the status quo was resumed. The movie gives them a great opportunity to do this but I suspect they'll just try to ram in as many tenuous references to these contrivances as they can. <p> As for Dexter...I'm not sure I'll look back on the show as fondly as 24 once it's done unless they really sing it loud and proud in the last couple of seasons. I didn't think I would but I think I'm joining the group wanting the last two seasons to have no sodding 'big bad' and just focus on Dexter Vs. Miami Metro. C'mon writers - get Batista and the crew out of Scooby Doo detective logic and go out on a bang. <p> Oh and as a side note rebel, I do agree that a perceived naff finale doesn't spoil whats gone before it as such - XFiles as you mentioned, wasn't affected at all by this. In fact I've recently been watching some repeats of Season 2 after many years away from it and it's mightily compulsive despite knowing the end. <p> The exception to that however would be Lost which you also note - I don't find the finale as offensive as many, but the nature of the finale being what it is kinda makes revisting the show not compelling in the slightest. Give it a year or two. I remember liking Series 4 the best overall.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 1:07 p.m. CST

    "Scumb"??????

    by MisterManReturns

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 1:11 p.m. CST

    rebel scumb - Breaking Bad

    by Tim

    You wrote a lot of words, but said nothing. The acting isn't anything special? They have the two best actors on TV by far! "Plane crashes, car crashes, explosions" I remember one of those, and it wasn't random at all. The other two are so vague you were just reaching so you'd be able to make a little list. Look, I know everyone doesn't like BB, just like everyone doesn't like BE. I've seen the talkbacks. But I just think it's hard to argue that it's one of the best written, best looking, and best acted shows of all time. I'm done now. Excited as hell for Boardwalk tonight!

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 1:16 p.m. CST

    its alright i liked the road trip one too

    by jsfithaca

    but i dont think boardwalk has been the best show this year, that honor goes to breaking bad easily imo. but nothing else has come close to approaching the levels of quality breaking bad and boardwalk do.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Incidentally

    by tomdolan04

    I remember a few years ago, my and my girlfriend (now wife) wrote down a list of 10 things or events for each other that would appear on the episode of 24 - if one came up, we had to take a shot drink. <p> Drinking Game 24 - "DAMMIT"!! <p> Seriously kids, don't do it :)

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 1:45 p.m. CST

    A TV show starring Dustin Hoffman and Nick Nolte?

    by OutsideChance

    And directed by Michael Mann? How is this not bigger news?

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Once Upon A Time

    by Nerfee

    I'll watch anything with Jennifer Morrison, about whom I am incapable of having a wholesome thought.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 2 p.m. CST

    i dont get hbo

    by john

    why are they releasing the dvd for season 1...after season 2 airs? when is michael sheehan gonna host snl...that man has comedy chops

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 2:30 p.m. CST

    i_love_lanalang dares to be different

    by Extr3m1st

    This guy is the only honest guy on this site. He dares to be the only contrarian on AICN. Oh wait, he is just 1 of the many trollish characters here who bashes anything that everyone else thinks is good. Please eat a dick already..

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 3:04 p.m. CST

    also justified comes back on in january

    by jsfithaca

    for those looking for a show to watch until thrones and mad men come back on

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 3:18 p.m. CST

    I'm cool because I hate things that are popular!

    by memento108

    Get over yourself. Boardwalk is simply excellent television. Congrats on having horrible taste in television if you can't love that show.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 3:22 p.m. CST

    Somebody up above asked about American Horror Story...avoid it.

    by Grammaton Cleric

    Rushed/ridiculous story lines, editing so awful it draws attention to itself, and "David Fincher's video for "Closer" is the most awesomest thing ever" set design. Just bad.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Kane & Nucky would =

    by grendel69

    world domination.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 3:59 p.m. CST

    I don't hate Dexter this year

    by Rob0729

    I know people hate it this year. Yes, the whole reveal two weeks ago was way too obvious and everyone already knew it a month earlier at least, but I still think it is a good, not great show. I think now that they put a cap on the series at season 8, I think they can progress the storyline. I am pretty sure that Deb will find out about Dexter in this year's finale or early next season. That will change the dynamics of everything. The last season will probably lead to a man hunt for Dexter and his capture. What is hurting the show most right now is they are in a rut on how Dexter controls his Dark Passenger and how everyone around him are so clueless to it considering he is never at work or watching his kid.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 4:01 p.m. CST

    I too was a bit uncomfortable about last weeks' Boardwalk

    by Rob0729

    I felt all the flashback stuff was a bit disjointed. A lot of it was probably ill timed for where the story was (at least until we found out the final reveal). I think overall the episode was very good, but I didn't think the flashbacks were particularly right for the episode.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 4:02 p.m. CST

    No Hell on Wheels talkback????????????

    by torontoxic

    Its the best show on right now. I guess it doesn't agree with Herc's misguided leftist brainwashing? Oh well at least the worst president in history is on 60 minutes pointing fingers again...

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 4:09 p.m. CST

    Lol every week Me & my mother discuss Boardwalk Empire

    by MRJONZ72

    But when I went over this past week for the first time not a peep from either of us.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 4:11 p.m. CST

    I won't fall for another AMC show

    by cocolopez

    After Rubicon, Walking Dead, and The Killing left me greatly disappointed. Rubicon just didn't interest me. Yeah- I get it's a slow burn- there's a bunch of "slow burn" shows that I love- it just didn't interest me at all. Walking Dead- stellar pilot- followed by the worst garbage I've watched in years. The Killing- man I LOVE, LOVE Mireille Enos. Please get her on another show that isn't insulting to its audience. I sat there and watched- I kid you not- all of three minutes of the Hell on Wheels pilot- eyes glazed over- then I said to myself "I will not fall for this again. Yes- it's a double fluke. Mad Men and Breaking Bad- that's ALL they're good for. They are NOT the poor man's HBO." Fuck AMC. Except when MM or BB is on.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 4:15 p.m. CST

    American Horror Story

    by cocolopez

    lol- I watched the pilot. That was more than enough. Such derivative garbage that threw everything at you hoping something would stick. And that horrible quick-zoom cam work- even during a normal conversation- as if every second of the show was so edgy- was just a bad joke. And I didn't need to see Dylan McDermott nude every five minutes either.

  • They was talking to the writer, he didnt decide to kill Angela until they were shooting Episode 8. Obviously he had the task of calling Aleksa Palladino to tell her that he was about to kill her off and she is about to be out of a job. When he called her she was obviously upset, but he didn't realize that she was actually on set, literally seconds away from shooting the party scene. I guess now I will have to back and watch that scene again if I you could see anything at all on her face.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 5:17 p.m. CST

    Syn, I hope you were guessing.

    by Pvt. Duke

    Because since the ep. hasn't aired, I read your post thinking you were making some blanket statement on spoilers... nope! I don't know what disappoints me more, that I read it or that I called it in advance.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 5:21 p.m. CST

    what should I check out first -- Homeland or Once Upon A Time?

    by TheSeeker7

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 5:25 p.m. CST

    although, this strikes me as a little odd about Homeland...

    by TheSeeker7

    so, I knew the general idea about it even before it premiered, that this dude is a former POW returning to the states but this one CIA or FBI or whatever chick believes he's now a turned American terrorist. but I just happened to be skimming over this one review of the show a few days ago, and it mentions how somewhere along the line, Claire Danes and Damien whoever are fucking.<br> <br> errr... WHAT? How the hell is THAT gap bridged? She's this super determined young government agent who believes he's a secret enemy of the state... but after awhile, what they're dating or something? from that starting point, how the hell does it get to a place where she's willingly banging said suspected terrorist??

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 5:54 p.m. CST

    I'll bet there will never be a revelation ...

    by Hipshot

    About Dexter. Not "public" any way. Deb may find out...say he rescues her, and she connects the dots. Now she has to deal with the fact that he's doing police work, but not in a police way. Bet anything he is never captured. Plenty of serial killers are never caught. Why not one who understands how forensics work?

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 6:07 p.m. CST

    hipsot, I think it's pretty clear

    by blackwood

    Dexter doesn't understand how forensics work.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Boardwalk, on the other hand

    by Mattman

    Moves very fast, character wise. I can't wait for tonight's.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Blackwood--

    by Hipshot

    You might think that the writers don't understand forensics, but clearly Dexter is supposed to understand them very well indeed.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 6:40 p.m. CST

    Syn flood

    by Extr3m1st

    I wish I didn't read that either though none of them are really shocking turn of events if they do turn out to be true. And even though you wrote spoiler in your header it is still a dick move to lay it out the way you did especially since when you click to open up all the talkback threads it is impossible to miss the spoilers the way you laid them out. So go eat a dick unless of course you were just guessing, in that case fuck off.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 6:53 p.m. CST

    I thought everyone on this thread would be discussing LUCK...

    by WeylandYutani

    Directed by Michael Mann. Penned by David Milch. Starring Hoffman and Nolte?! What the fuck guys? This has the potential to be the best new series for the 2011-12 TV season. COME. ON.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 7:21 p.m. CST

    theseeker7

    by dasaroo

    Carrie is a piece of work. And Claire Danes gives a fearless performance. The first time we meet her, she comes home after an all-night bender. She runs into her bathroom, hikes up her skirt, swipes her pussy with a towel, and runs out to work. Wow. She pops pills, is bipolar or something, and semi-unreliable with poor boundaries. She will do anything for the job because she has nothing else. If she's super-determined it's because she is so obsessive. By the time she's fucking her suspected traitor, it's completely believable how they got there. Hint: it does not end well.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 7:21 p.m. CST

    the Simpsons

    by Scorchy

    It was actually pretty damn funny tonight. The "let's peak into the future" episodes have been hit-or-miss, but this one was mostly hit. Lots of amusing gags and some good laughs.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 7:56 p.m. CST

    seeker

    by jsfithaca

    i dont want to spoil anything so im just gonna say wacth the show. it makes perfect sense

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 8:03 p.m. CST

    chalky

    by JaredP

    will get his revenge on the klan tonight

  • Won't get to see boardwalk/dexter/homeland til tomorrow night, so dissappearing until then

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 8:27 p.m. CST

    voiceofsaruman

    by Rebel Scumb

    No I'm nearly 33. For the dexter roadtrip, I didn't mind that it was a non-sequitor, that was actually what I sort of liked about it. Hardly the best they've ever done, but it felt like something new and unexpected. As for the acting on breaking bad, maybe it gets better beyond the middle of season 3, but I just didn't see it in the ones I've seen. Nothing against the actors, I've seen most of them in other stuff that they were great in. I just think the characters themselves are pretty flat. I don't think subjective opinion covers everything, someone could have the opinion that transformers 2 is better than Mad Men, but I couldn't think of any justifiable reason for that. When it comes to Breaking Bad, all i can say is I gave it an honest shot, had nothing but the intent to enjoy a show I'd heard very good stuff (and no spoilers) about. But I simply don't see the show people describe in their praise reflected in the show itself.

  • I only brought it up as an example in regards to different tastes. Hey if you guys like it as much you say, then your the ones coming out on top regardless of whatever I may think of it, you get another great show to enjoy, so I'm the envious one. And to memento, I'm not hating on it to be cool. And it seems like that would be quite counter productive anyways, since its clearly cool to like breaking bad.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 8:54 p.m. CST

    Nucky's Empire

    by Waspo

    Hot Damn... Jimmy is dead. I knew it was coming, but not this soon.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:02 p.m. CST

    It doesn't make you cool to like Breaking Bad

    by memento108

    Just someone who appreciates the finest show on television. Re: Jimmy on BE....WOW. Did not expect that. Pretty amazing scene even if the line delivery was a bit off. Very excited for next season.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:10 p.m. CST

    I thought...

    by scors54

    For a minute there we were going to get the full Baptism scene from the Godfather treatment as Nucky and Margaret got married against that backdrop. And how will our favorite Phantom react to this when next season begins? Wow. Ballsy move.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Season 3 now becomes about Richard Harrow's revenge

    by memento108

    And fuck me, I'm on board for that 100%.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:15 p.m. CST

    Margaret really is the biggest villain

    by Volstaff

    I still really hate the character though.I have a bad feeling we'll have to watch even more of her next season. But what a season ender.They sure the hell trumped GoT in the whole killing off of major characters department. Then Margaret signs away the land to the church.Even Satan would be like "oh HELL no,BITCH!"

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:16 p.m. CST

    Boardwalk

    by weati

    BE should have been the series finale. I don't know how the show can be as good after tonight. If the guy who plays Jimmy came to set fucked up all the time, I guess they didn't have much choice to take the show in this direction.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Scumb- I have to admire you for not trying to skewer BB

    by Cartagia

    Which, is how i know you aren't a troll. Some people just can't buy "It doesn't do anything for me" as an excuse. It's just like falling in love (or lust as the case may be). you can see why the rest of us like it, but you don't. Cool beans.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:18 p.m. CST

    Depressed as hell.

    by Behemoth

    .... Jimmy was my absolute favorite character on the show, and probably the most imminently watchable. In some ways, it could be argued that he held the whole show together. Very depressing episode, to see Manny get off the hook (for now), to see that imbecile Eli back in Nucky's good graces ... there was not an ounce of happiness in that episode. Not an ounce of satisfaction. The only thing I can really take from it is that I've been back and forth with Nucky since the show started. Now, I wish I could fast forward to series' end and his imminent demise.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:19 p.m. CST

    It was just OK

    by gumbyandpokey

    Too much Margaret again. I know she's a main character, but the accent is just grating and overdone. And I never felt the female prosecuter came across well or was terribly interesting. I sure hope Richard isn't killed early next season.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:19 p.m. CST

    @supermarch Bush wasnt on 60 minutes tonight.

    by Eric

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:24 p.m. CST

    It's seem they pulled the trigger too early, so to speak.

    by GQTaste26

    Why kill off Dabney the week earlier, along w/ Jimmies wife if you're gonna whack Jimmy too. Only one left is Mol and the baby.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:29 p.m. CST

    American Horror Story

    by v1cious

    Can't really depend on reviews with this show, it's very polarizing. I personally love it. The show's got some really great characters and plot twists. I also like how it doesn't drag things out. There's only two episodes left, and they have pretty much resolved every major this season.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:33 p.m. CST

    Now who does Richard play off of?

    by gumbyandpokey

    His only connections to the world were Jimmy and Angela and their both dead. The more I think about it, the more I'm not sure it was a good move for the show. If it means more Margaret or more of the Irish guy who's Jimmy's replacement, then it doesn't work, imo. Ballsy...sure. Smart...I don't know.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:44 p.m. CST

    note to hbo

    by john

    gotta tighten up those leaks, and no, feeding paz bad intel aint gonna work

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:45 p.m. CST

    I don't think it was a good move on their part. Not at all.

    by GQTaste26

    He was the cornerstone to the show.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Jimmy's trench-knife will have its revenge.

    by Pvt. Duke

    Via Richard. Then Tommy.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Was Pitt too much of a pain in the ass to work with?

    by gumbyandpokey

    I know there have been rumblings, and they didn't decide to kill Jimmy off until about midseason. There was no reason to have Richard unburden his soul to Angela if she was going to be killed off (and that was only recently decided, too). It will be interesting to go back and watch the season see if there was a change in tone when they made those decisions.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:07 p.m. CST

    Owen is a peasant-faced cockamabob.

    by Pvt. Duke

    Richard and (hopefully) Chalky will be busy... so many options, what with Manny, Nucky, Eli, that fucking smug beanpole Paddy Ryan, Eli, Owen, any number of those goofball politicos. Nucky's the antagonist for me now... like Al Swearengen, only the opposite of magnanimous and he looks like a pissed off ferret. At least Jimmy had a conscience and showed as much. They are establishing Richard already as a mentor to Tommy and a foil to Gillian, but he's still Richard. Manny killed Angela, Manny watched Jimmy walk into the buzzsaw with smug satisfaction... ... Manny will get the trench-knife, probably multiple times.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:10 p.m. CST

    Pitt?

    by Chief_Red_Crow

    I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that Pitt can be a pain on set. Such a shame because, not unlike Ed Norton (who always gets a similar bad rap, although maybe for different reasons), I think the guy is a terrific actor. Jimmy was a very well thought out character. The limp, the Oedipal stuff. Seems very strange that they would go this route unless there was a problem with Pitt. Maybe he wanted out, maybe they wanted him out. Can't think that this has been planned out since the start, though, or that it was a pure storytelling choice on the part of the writers. Does anyone have any sources on this idea that Pitt is a problem to work with?

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:23 p.m. CST

    Boardwalk... God damn.

    by Wolfman Nards

    Not really happy about how that ended. I agree with a few posts above - that seemed like more of a series finale ending. There has to be truth to the rumors about him being difficult on set. Killing Jimmy off does nothing good for the direction of the show. I don't know I feel about watching the show go on without his character on it.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:28 p.m. CST

    I've said it before and I'll say it again...

    by Mattman

    Nothing happens goes the way you want it to on Boardwalk, and I respect that. But holy fuck, that doesn't mean I have to like it. That was intensely depressing. Jimmy's character was Shakespearean in his tragedy. There was no other end for him, and he knew that before he stepped out the door. He knew it as he patted Harrow on the shoulder and told him to get out of the trenches. I'm gonna miss Jimmy. Despite all his evils, I found him the most likable character on the show. Nucky is now the main villain, hands down. Whatever good he does from this point on, I'll still smile when he gets his. Great Godfather moment with Margaret and Nucky. I knew they had something good in store for her... she is now the only one who can stop Nucky, and she just might destroy him from within. Then again, maybe not. P.S. This episode was probably the most beautifully filmed and edited hour of television I have ever seen.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:30 p.m. CST

    Btw, about halfway through this episode I thought to myself

    by Mattman

    I can't wait for the moment when Nucky mans up and kills someone himself, instead of having everyone else do it for him.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:31 p.m. CST

    FUUUUCK.

    by Mattman

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:34 p.m. CST

    chief_red_crow

    by Mattman

    http://www.tvguide.ca/TVNews/Articles/111024_boardwalk_star_fired_EG.htm This doesn't necessarily mean he was fired from Boardwalk though, as Scorsese seems to like working with him (Hugo).

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Gotta give them credit SPOILERS

    by Rob0729

    Whether you liked Boardwalk Empire's season finale or not, you gotta give them credit for having the balls to kill the second most important character on the show. I am guessing Owen will take over Jimmy's role (as Jimmy alluded to earlier in the episode) in terms of screen time and plotting. It is risky because they really did have so much of the show tied to Jimmy and his pseudo father/son relationship and the growing rivalry between the two. It could destroy the show or give it a feel that anyone could die at any time which could dial up the tension.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:38 p.m. CST

    Just not interested in Boardwalk anymore...

    by Swoomustdie

    I didn't realize it until tonight but I've been tuning in for Jimmy, not Nucky. Oh well, you still have my money HBO as long as you have Game of Thrones.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 10:45 p.m. CST

    Mattman

    by Chief_Red_Crow

    Thanks for the link. I've got to think this had something to do with Jimmy being killed off. Like I said, a real shame. Like Pitt, liked the character. What matters now is where they go from here. In the case of GoT (and the book series its based upon) the death of Ned Stark opened up a lot of storytelling possibilities, which the book (and hopefully the show) fully explore. If Richard Harrow or the Irish guy working for Nucky are allowed to develop, maybe it will all work out. Remains to be seen.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 11:01 p.m. CST

    deadline.com reported a month or so ago Pitt's agent fired him

    by ndally

    for being a dick on set. but still..damn how is this show going to work without Jimmy? seems like they killed Michael Corleone at the diner instead of him coming out of the bathroom like a champ. Man thats too bad. Jimmy was the best part of this sho. Everybody watches for Jimmy and Richard. fuckk

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 11:05 p.m. CST

    oh never mind someone already posted a link

    by ndally

    man im still in shock.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 11:10 p.m. CST

    More Owen and Margaret...good God, no.

    by gumbyandpokey

    I normally love shocking deaths on shows, but if it means more poor accents/acting/uninteresting characters, then no thanks.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 11:20 p.m. CST

    While I was sad to see Jimmy go...

    by GravyAkira

    I still think there is plenty to look forward too. Rothstein, Luciano, Lanskey, and Capone will figure into the future of the show big time. I really hope we see more of Chicago and Capone. Tommy Guns baby! But yeah, it does suck that Jimmy is gone. Loved him and Richard's entrance in this episode tonight also. Man this episode was nuts!

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 11:34 p.m. CST

    Whiners: Jimmy did not make this show what it is

    by Mattman

    Yes, this season revolved heavily around him for a reason (clearly). It was the rise and fall of Jimmy Darmody. The next season can quite easily shift back to Nucky and the plethora of other characters at the show's disposal. I'm sad/fucking pissed about what happened... but the show is hardly out of characters. I saw this same kind of whining back on the Thrones boards... from people who hadn't read the books and had no idea what they were talking about.

  • Dec. 11, 2011, 11:54 p.m. CST

    They only made the decision to kill Jimmy around midseason

    by gumbyandpokey

    This was not some grand plan. And GOT had other really interesting characters to invest in. It will be interesting to watch the rise of Capone, Lansky, etc, but the show will be a bit dry emotionally, imo. My favorite scene of the season is still Angela painting Richard.

  • The entire Jimmy arc worked from beginning to end. It served to prove that he is everything Nucky isn't.

  • And there's not thing in the show itself to support. The beginning of the season makes perfect sense with the end. They clearly planned it. The entire arc was Jimmy's false "rise" (which in reality was just his fall).

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:04 a.m. CST

    sardonic, that's true

    by Mattman

    In retrospect it seems it was telegraphed from early on this season. Hilarious how everyone is just accepting someone's speculation as fact now.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:13 a.m. CST

    Richard

    by GhostDad

    has his family now. I hope he gets more screentime in Season 3, as you have to believe the showrunners realize what a popular character he's become. It'd be awesome to see Chalky and Richard team up, too.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:14 a.m. CST

    Wow

    by Tim

    Don't know if I've ever yelled NOOOO my TV before...maybe a few times when I was sure Jesse Pinkman was gonna die, but damn. That was insane. How are you all so sure the decision was made mid-season? Seems like it made sense to me. While I'm pissed that Jimmy is dead, how can some of you just write off the show? You're not AT ALL interested in seeing where they go with season 3?

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:19 a.m. CST

    therawbeatsdotcom, the very same people whining about this

    by Mattman

    will be tuning in with the rest of us, mark my words. Walking Dead proved that TBers will watch shows they claim to hate. They'll also be tuning into Game of Thrones, despite the engless bitching about what happened in the end of that season. That will probably have one of the biggest HBO season premieres of all time.

  • And ghostdad, I literally didn't even think of that. Richard does have his family now.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:20 a.m. CST

    A bunch of interviews with Winter will be released soon

    by gumbyandpokey

    Might of been at hitflix where I read a little tidbit that said the storyline didn't originally call for Jimmy's death. And there have been some interviews with Aleksa Palladino, where she discusses how much of a shock it was to get the news so late in the season that her character was going to be killed off.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:27 a.m. CST

    Here's the interview right here

    by Tim

    And they plot out the whole season before they film it, they didn't just come up with the decision midway through. http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/interview-boardwalk-empire-creator-terence-winter-post-mortems-season-2

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:28 a.m. CST

    mattman re:Game of Thrones

    by gumbyandpokey

    People will be tuning in because the season finale ended with a great closing scene with Dany and the dragons and left the viewer dying to see what's next. I hadn't read the books and had no clue of the major death, but there are other characters who are so interesting and that you can invest in and love or hate. Richard is the only other character on Boardwalk that I have any emotional interest in. It's still a show to admired, but I think Jimmy and his relationships (with Richard, Nucky and Angela) helped hook people into the story.

  • I spoke of it earlier on this board, but yeah once the full episode airs on HBO GO check out the commentary on that, of if you have XFINITY ON DEMAND some of the behind the scenes featurettes that they do for every episode. Not sure about other cable/satellite providers.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:34 a.m. CST

    Don't like this quote from Winter

    by Tim

    Richard knows when he walks out the door, as does Jimmy. He knows he's walking to his death and this is what's coming to him. I don't know that Richard necessarily feels that he needs to avenge this.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:41 a.m. CST

    That interview makes it clear the speculation is not at all true

    by Mattman

    They knew all along what they had to do. Anything less would have been a copout.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:51 a.m. CST

    Right. This had nothing to do with Pitt...

    by Tim

    It's all about the writers wanting to write an honest story and having the balls to take it where it needs to go. This isn't Sons of Anarchy where they can pull cheap cop-outs and the fans will eat it up. This was one of my favorite seasons of TV I've ever seen, up there with the Shield 7, Wire 4, Sopranos 2 etc...

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:55 a.m. CST

    After this season, I have a ton of respect for these writers

    by Mattman

    And that interview only reaffirms that they have the right attitude. Can't wait for season 3.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 1:08 a.m. CST

    Jimmy's death wasn't decided on until ep 9

    by gumbyandpokey

    http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/12/terence-winter-looks-back-on-the-mother-of-all-boardwalk-empire-seasons/?ref=television Q.When did you make the decision that, yes, Jimmy was going to die? A. We started talking about it very early on in Season 2, and then waffled and wrestled with it over the course of the season. I don’t think I was fully committed to it until probably as far as the writing of Episode 9. And then I realized we have to fully commit to this.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 1:15 a.m. CST

    The Shield/Boardwalk

    by MrBigStuffx

    you are right about the shield - those last episodes are about as good as television gets - and I understand how someones particular tastes may preclude them from liking something, but whatever criteria exists for judging what constitutes excellent television this season of Boardwalk hit them high on all levels and I think the brilliance of this season and the show in general was in the truth and of the showing of Jimmy and his crazy mama's relationship. from the moment they met in episode one where we all said is that Jimmy's old girlfriend before he went to war she is pretty hot to a short while later realizing that is his mother and saying well that is pretty fucking strange the way she acts around him and the awkwardness he constantly showed toward her - to then reveal with almost no restraint the truth which we all suspected or guessed at but assumed it was just simply our imaginations was brilliant because it added to the tragedy of jimmy even more - terrence winter who was also a main producer on the sopranos has always had extremely strong/strange/contradictory women lead characters and the similarities between margaret/carmela and janice/jimmy's mom are pretty staggering and interesting and also i expect Game of Thrones season 2 to be among the best television we will ever witness - i read everything but refuse to read these books because HBO executed season 1 so well that i can't ruin it for myself and it makes me feel terrible to know that with the miniscule budget they hit a ten out of ten and with a 300 million dollar budget Peter Jackson was only able to nail the LOTR halfway - not that i want to get into a LOTR debate/hatefest but it is an inarguable fact that the return of the king is the weakest of all the films and contains almost zero of the essence or magic/epicness of the book

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 1:46 a.m. CST

    dont have a problem with jimmy getting whacked

    by john

    in fact, the writers could make a case that they set this up from the start....kudos to them that they didnt couldve gone the lost route and lied to the viewers however, i dont see the logic behind nucky not taking out eli eli is weak, a coward and stupid its the godfather rule...same reason michael killed his brother....weak, stupid, cowards cannot be trusted also the writers have kinda put themselves in a corner with harrow...he has now lost both of his constants....what do they do with him brilliant sending van alden to cicero

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 1:53 a.m. CST

    Holy fuck.

    by boyalien

    Boardwalk Empire season 2 is officially one of the best seasons of any series ever. Sad to see Jimmy go, but honestly, Nucky did him a favor. That guy was in hell, for all intents and purposes. He died in the trench. I have no idea what Harrow will do, but everyone knows his screen time will never dwindle.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:01 a.m. CST

    It's like the Empire Strikes Back, but

    by ToughGuyRizzo

    You didnt want those fags to win. Super pissed Jimmy didn't get revenge for the death of his wife. Who knows, Jimmy survives. Shit, Richard has half his face blown off and that dude is the Walking Dead with a pistol. Yeah, ballsy, but story-wise, who becomes the antagonistic for next season? Michael Shannon?

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:01 a.m. CST

    re "I have no idea what Harrow will do"

    by Hercules

    He's going to say hello to Manny Horvitz is what he's going to do.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:02 a.m. CST

    wow...winter doesnt know jack about child abusers

    by john

    I don't know how all of this has changed Gillian yet, I don't know if she's learned anything from this. Obviously, she says she used to kiss Jimmy's winky. I don't know if the winky kissing will be passed on through the generations. I hope not for his sake. In any event, even in the best case scenario, that's probably not a healthy relationship, but I don't think we need to be worried about him.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:13 a.m. CST

    It's pretty obvious

    by Cholerajones

    That was Pitt was ax'd for being a dick. Rewatch every scene with Pitt and Buscemi, and you'll see the stand ins. They shot their scenes at different times, because clearly nobody wanted to be on the set with him anymore. The second half of the season was all about removing a troubled actor from the cast, and embaressing him for being difficult.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:14 a.m. CST

    herc

    by boyalien

    but where do his loyalties lie? With Mother-from-hell and orphan kid? With his never-seen sister? With Nucky? I WANT ANSWERS!

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:14 a.m. CST

    herc

    by john

    if winter says harrow will not be bent on revenge and understands that jimmy went to face a soldiers death...why do you say that? i for one am happy that manya is sticking around forsythe is at the top of his craft

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:16 a.m. CST

    toughguyrizzo...if this was a lucas production

    by john

    10 years from now, a special edition would be made cgi'ing out the gun from nucky's hand fuck lucas

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:23 a.m. CST

    boyalien

    by Hercules

    Harrow will become "Boardwalk's" Omar Little, a masterless samurai meting out vigilante justice wherever he wanders.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:24 a.m. CST

    hercv...one can only hope so

    by john

    even if it doesnt fit into the era but what the hell

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:25 a.m. CST

    herc

    by boyalien

    that...sounds...........like the greatest thing that would ever happen, in the history of happenstances. Here is seriously fucking hoping.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:25 a.m. CST

    restyles

    by Hercules

    Winter wasn't lying. Harrow isn't seeking vengeance for Jimmy.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:27 a.m. CST

    odessa?

    by john

    gotta nitpick here i pegged manya for a ukranian...like my grandma those were some tough ass jews....and all experienced the czars pogroms either way...he was right...nucky never wouldve made it

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:27 a.m. CST

    I think Richard will fit in with Chalky's boys.

    by Pvt. Duke

    Both sides would understand what it's like to be judged based on appearance, plus Richard and Jimmy brought Chalky the KKK guys.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:32 a.m. CST

    Harrow,

    by boyalien

    Gillian, and Van Alden are gonna have some seriously awesome season 3 storylines. And Capone, Lansky and Luciano are gonna figure big.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:32 a.m. CST

    Just can't wait to see

    by boyalien

    how they balance all that with Nucky and Chalky.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:43 a.m. CST

    herc...not that he was lying

    by john

    but what holds harrow to this world anymore? he cant really become a lone wolf...there werent any during the 20s...at least none that i know of the whole thing of the guy who burns drug dealers for a living doesnt come about till much later in the 20th century well...i will check out boss...hope it isnt too much over the top gonna watch luck tomorrow nite...am staying away from the reviews cant wait for justified to return....gugino......that is all

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:51 a.m. CST

    restyles

    by ToughGuyRizzo

    Fuck Lucas with all my heart. However Nucky is no Vader dammnit.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 3:50 a.m. CST

    herc...please embed this tomorrow

    by john

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Iwio2YH1I agent sebso lives....boardwalk empire state of mind

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 4:42 a.m. CST

    Harrow

    by DaKnifeOrDaGun

    If Harrow wont seek revenge for Jimmy then it will be hard to see which direction the characters will take him. Harrow killed for Jimmy because he was the only one who treated him with respect and never saw him as damaged. The only unfinished business he has is with Manny over Angela. After that he's pretty much done. It's quite possible Pitt's behavior had something to do with the demise of JD but his death was believable and well within the parameters of direction/evolution. No studio is going to publicly admit they killed off a character because the actor was a dickhead. It would come off as petty and defamatory. Nucky had a choice between Manny or Jimmy. It made perfect business sense to eliminate Jimmy hile he was in a state of vulnerability since he was the bigger of the two threats. There would've always been a chance that Jimmy might defect again and wreak havoc from within. Besides.... ordering a hit on someone tends to put the nail in the coffin on family reunions.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 6:16 a.m. CST

    Harrow/Phantom

    by Frank Dills

    Will spend at least half of next season at his Sister's getting to know her again. That was set up perfectly this year and gives him a way to get away fro a while. Actually, a lot of the characters for season 3 should be displaced for some time. Van Alden, Harrow, perhaps Gillan, etc. I would expect next year will be the death of AR, the introduction of the horse story line as has been hinted at this season, Capone's rise to power, etc. Sadly, I think we might get Owen, Nucky, Marg, next year in heavy doses in a love triangle. Hopefully not. The finale was excellent in every way. BE succeed in doing what the Sopranos never could, end a season without a bunch of existential bull shit.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 6:28 a.m. CST

    Once upon a time is turning into a great show.

    by Volllllume3

    Who would've tought huh?

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 7:29 a.m. CST

    Well said Chop...

    by Katet19

    I'm with you. I respect the decision, I knew they were offing him when they gave him an entire flashback ep, but it was still difficult. It's realistic and shows the audience that even thought we knew Nucky lied to some people, we as an audience were part of the deception. He was feeding us just as big a line of shit. Jimmy's big mistake was assuming Nucky was burdoned by the same sort of sensitive soul he was. That every kill every awful act took a toll. Nucky's last words to Jimmy were essentially 'wrong son I don't have a soul to be burdoned and i harbor no regret'. Despite the number of hard ass things we've seen Jimmy do Nucky Thompson was always the much harder man.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 7:32 a.m. CST

    Harrow

    by Katet19

    as far as Harrow goes I don't presume to know what's going to happen to him. I DO agree with the folks who think if he gets any revenge at all it will be for Angela. Soldier to soldier Richard understood that Jimmy had lost himself and needed to go fall on his own sword. There are a number of things it would be cool to see Richard do. Avenging Angel, Lone Phantom and Cub with Jimmy's boy, he'd even make an interesting kingpin of sorts if he rose that high. Imagine the terror in his business associates while he's wielding a quick pistol, that mask and gravely voice. He did have a moment with the Mick so it's possible they'll clash/unite sometime soon.

  • loved it. Creeped me out when Jimmy's mother said to the kid (something like)"You're going to be an important man in this town one day...." and took him upstairs. What did she have in mind? She's f'ed up.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 8:06 a.m. CST

    Boardwalk Empire kind of dragged this season

    by FrodoFraggins

    The show is Buscemi's but I really did see it more as Jimmy's show. Jimmy crossed the line though and was became far less sympathetic. To the point where his flashbacks didn't really improve my opinion of him. I was pretty sure they were going to kill Darmody soon after the flashback to college. It just felt like the kind of thing Lost would do right before they'd off a long time character.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Dexter slightly improved

    by FrodoFraggins

    It would be hard not to do at this point. This season is completely lost and I frankly don't have confidence in the final two seasons any more. I figured they would push the lab geek to the sinister side as a set up for next season. The problem is that he's not a good actor. As far as the road trip episode, I thought it was better than most episodes this season.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 8:10 a.m. CST

    Homeland is like Rubicon with 3D characters

    by FrodoFraggins

    I think the performances have been great and the end of tonights episode was very well done. Too bad nobody seems to watch it.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 8:22 a.m. CST

    Sorry to see Jimmy go, but anxious to see....

    by 2for2true

    ...if the show goes gangster-centric and begins to focus on Lucky, Capone and Manny. To me, Lucky is THE most interesting character on the show. Fan-fucking-tastic job by Vincent Piazza.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 8:53 a.m. CST

    franksimms

    by john

    ar doesnt die till 28 next season takes place in 23...im guessing the spring finale will coincide with the death of harding we will see the rise of capone...as van alden moved to cicero

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 9:31 a.m. CST

    These "combo" talkbacks SUCK!!!

    by ShiftyEyedDog

    It's impossible to follow a conversation. Either make a dedicated talkback for a show, or do none at all.

  • This series is called Boardwalk Empire, it's about Atlantic City not the New York and Chicago mobsters. We all know those stories. I have nothing against those actors or how the show has handled those significant historical gansters but the heart of this show is about three Altlantic City "mobsters" (Nucky, Darmody, and Chalky). Now one of them is dead and it's going to be hard to replace that emotional part of the show because aside from Harrow, and Eli there really aren't that many interesting fringe characters. I don't count Van Alden because so far he is kind of just this mildly interesting side show. Don't get me wrong though I liked this finale but I agree with the folks that are saying this seemed more like a series finale. I'm in on next season but if they start going into New York and Chicago more I may be out.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 9:56 a.m. CST

    I don't want more Capone, Lansky or Luciano, either

    by mypalfish

    They're all good in limited doses, but I wonder who are we supposed to care about now? I suppose it's Margaret, but she's so annoying that I would let out a scream of joy if she was bumped off. It was logical to eventually kill off Jimmy, but it did seem as if his descent was accelerated at the end of the season and kind of telegraphed what was going to happen. I suppose when the decision was made, they gave Jimmy that flashback ep.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Bad idea

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I didn't really like Michael Pitt in the role, he was kind of annoying. However the character was important to the show and killing him off seemed unearned to me. I just don't feel like it was set up well, dramatically speaking, even if it "makes sense". I think sometimes these writers, in their effort to be "honest" or whatever, make intellectual decisions that don't ring true emotionally.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:01 a.m. CST

    More Margaret!

    by PlayerHater_of_the_year

    Now that a boring character like Jimmy is out of the way they can dedicate more screen time to Margaret. We could see her knitting more, crying in church more, making the bed more, eating dinner and complaining more, being more guilty about polio girl. The stuff we really tune in for BE for! Good choice in show direction HBO you really understand your audience.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Anyone else feel the Esther Randolph character didn't work?

    by mypalfish

    I know she was a real person, but the show hit a screeching halt when she came onscreen. Maybe is was a poor performance by the actress, but that character didn't click, imo.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Btw, Omar is not a "vigilante" meting out justice

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    He's a fucking thief for chrissakes

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Best performance on Boardwalk? Worst performance?

    by mypalfish

    I'd give the best performance to Jack Huston as Richard, with Pitt getting the runner up. The worst performance goes to, without a doubt, Kelly MacDonald, who is like nails on a chalkboard.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:21 a.m. CST

    mypalfish does not like poon. You hate Gretch Mol too right?

    by ToughGuyRizzo

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Shiftyeyeddog

    by don

    A dedicated talkback for each of the shows would be great and make things easier BUT there is far too much breaking news going on at this site.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:24 a.m. CST

    It was a mid season audible

    by lagomorph

    http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/12/terence-winter-looks-back-on-the-mother-of-all-boardwalk-empire-seasons/ It's right there in the interview. Winter called it around episode 9 and Pitt himself brought the idea up as well. It was a bold move that brings the idea of Nucky being a full time gangster to fruition.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Your right on Choppah

    by skycrapper

    Which is why it's hard to root for Nucky anymore and difficult to see how the show is going to hold our interests next season.

  • Looks like Nuck finally decided to take Jimmy's advice. Talk about payoff! WHO says nothing ever happens on this show?!

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:53 a.m. CST

    What a brilliant season this ended up being.

    by Randy

    I thought the 1st season of BE was just good and not great, little did I expect this season to be so fucking masterful. Terrence Winter is back baby, this season featured wonderful writing, acting and incredible direction. It was like once they got past the midway point, they started going into Godfather part 2 levels of storytelling, amazing stuff.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 11:03 a.m. CST

    So really Sauron what you saying is...

    by Frank Dills

    That BE is following the same formula as the Wire. Anyone can die, even huge fan favorites. All the things you were saying about Jimmy could also be applied to Stringer Bell. Think about this my friend. Maybe, just maybe this episode made you FEEL something when Jimmy died and you are upset about it. Nothing wrong with that, but in this day and age it's incredibly rare. It's almost un precedented to see a reaction like this for an HBO show. The ending had integrity. It wasn't Tony walking out of the woods and we are left to discuss some weakly implied metaphor to a bear. Instead we saw Jimmy struck down, and he knew it was coming. He let himself be killed. We didn't get the Phantom killing Manny, or some other pandering finale. Instead we got real life, bad guys wining, viewer's left reeling and emotional upset, which is where I believe you are at sir. Your problem isn't with HBO, it's that you have a real feeling of loss as we all do because this finale brought out feeling. BE stuck the finish with this finale. Brilliant, classy, heart breaking, it had it all.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Homeland is great and Claire Danes deserves an Emmy

    by Chain

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Did Jimmy basically committ suicide?

    by Rob0729

    I was thinking about it. Jimmy had to know the second he showed weakness to Nucky that he would probably be whacked by either him or Manny. Even Richard pointed out that Nucky would never trust him. It was either the worst strategic decision of all time or Jimmy knew the second he made the move that he was gone. You look at the entire episode and in hindsight everything Jimmy did was to put his house in order and make ammends for his past deeds. He took care of Chaulky, made sure his son would inherit the Commodore's fortune, made sure Nucky wouldn't go to jail, spent quality time with his son, etc. Obviously, in the end, he knew he was going into a set up and saved Richard and didn't bring a weapon. I think the guilt of his life killing Angela and killing the Commodore drove him to killing himself. His final deed was pushing Nucky to be the full gangster he needs to be.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 11:55 a.m. CST

    Yeah I believe Jimmy had a death wish

    by skycrapper

    I mean look at his life, his only "friends" a phantom and his molester mother (I guess his 4 year old son too) but I don't think he saw that coming.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:11 p.m. CST

    I think Jimmy did see it coming

    by jim

    As rob0729 said, the entire episode was Jimmy putting his house in order; making amends with Nucky, taking care of his kid. I believe he realized he wasn't cut out to be Nucky, he couldn't do it. The way he dealt with Manny led to the death of his wife. I think he knew if he continued on the path of taking over from Nucky that his son or mother would pay the price, like his wife did. He sacrificed himself to save them.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:17 p.m. CST

    My take?

    by Red Ned Lynch

    Jimmy knew he was going to his death. His mom knew he was going to his death from the instant she saw the dog tags. I think that's why you got that snippet of dialogue from her before she took the kid upstairs. Fundamentally Jimmy had already shown himself to be a flawed tool for her ambitions. Richard knew Jimmy was going to his death. And permitted Jimmy to go because allowing Jimmy the right to do what he did was essential to...well, pretty much everything in Richard's character. He had told Jimmy what to expect. What Jimmy did after had to be respected. It seems to me that this conclusion was probably forced on the show by external forces. But they certainly cooked it up right. Brutal, and only surprising because it was a logical outcome that television would normally avoid at all costs.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:21 p.m. CST

    Boardwalk: Anyone who thought...

    by WarrenSmooth

    that the James Darmody character was ever going to survive this series is pretty naive. The writers definitely knew Nucky was going to have to kill him at some point. Re-watch Season 1 and tell me that big showdown in the finale wasn't planned. How else could that father-son story arc be resolved?

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:21 p.m. CST

    Curiously, since BB is being talked about.

    by Red Ned Lynch

    I avoided Breaking Bad. I didn't like the set-up. Coming from a large and now mostly prematurely dead family, shows centered around hospitals or characters with terminal illnesses are something I tend to avoid. Friends finally browbeat me into watching just this past season, and fortunately Netflix provided the previous years while the current one built up on the dvr. And yeah. It is the best show currently on television.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Franksimms and Choppah - you both made excellent points

    by Tim

    Love the analysis you both gave, and completely agree. I have a feeling this show will surprise us with some new characters next season... If you read the Winters interview, he talks about how losing Richie brought on Ralphie, how losing Ralphie brought on Phil Leotardo etc. so he's clearly implying that there will be a new Jimmy in the works, IMO. I don't get the Margaret hate either. Is there a rule that talkbackers MUST HATE all female characters? Carmella Soprano, Skyler White, Margaret...it's non stop. Do I want to see a show based on her only? Fuck no. But she's an interesting character, a good actress, and I don't understand how she gets on peoples nerves so badly. *Also, Winters said that Richard and Jimmy's Mom will still be featured characters

  • I enjoy Boardwalk Empire, and appreciate the talent on display, but its not even close.

  • Very different shows, but the performances of Danes and Patenkin (sp?) are so fucking good and right up there with Cranston and Paul.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:43 p.m. CST

    Margaret hate was premature

    by Mattman

    They clearly have good things planned for her. The final scene this season more than hinted at that. She is now in a very dangerous position to harm Nucky.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:46 p.m. CST

    jimmy

    by JaredP

    went from politician to full fledged gangster. wonder hoiw there going to handle this next season

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:46 p.m. CST

    dahveed1972

    by Rob0729

    I agree with you about Homeland. I do think it has treaded a thin line to "24"'s absurdity plotlines at times and reeled itself in before it went over the line, but overall a very solid series that is intriguing. I am concerned that they might go over the absurdity line at some point and I am waiting for the inevitable Mandy Patankin temper tantrum and quitting of the show (they need his character to be a good grounding for Claire Danes'), but every week this show keeps me rivited. Missed last night's episode since I was too tired to watch closely after Boardwalk Empire and chose to watch my DVRed Dexter instead. Will watch it tonight.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:48 p.m. CST

    choppah, first his real father spears him

    by Mattman

    then Nucky shoots him in the face. Life really fucked Jimmy over. Winters called it a "mercy killing", and I think that's pretty much true. I watched it again, and there was a very subtle smirk on Jimmy's face (along with a bullet hole) as Nucky says "I am not looking for forgiveness". It's like he knows something Nucky doesn't.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:50 p.m. CST

    jaredp

    by Rob0729

    I assume you mean Nucky.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:54 p.m. CST

    thank you robo

    by JaredP

    i realized my mistake and came to correct it

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:55 p.m. CST

    BOARDWALK EMPIRE

    by JaredP

    the show that goes places dexter will NEVER GO

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Dexter

    by Mattman

    Unless I hear something happens the end of this season, I'm done. Deb needs to find out.

  • ... so im hoping season two finds something other than a ticking timebomb to move the story forward. but the status quo is still damn great so either way.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 1:53 p.m. CST

    I disagree with rob on only ONE point...

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Jimmy's final act was not pushing Nucky toward becoming a fully-fledged gangster. It was saving Richard's life by telling him not to accompany him to the meet. Somehow, some way, Jimmy knows that Richard can still escape the trenches and have a better life. A fantastic conclusion to a great season.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:08 p.m. CST

    And for those who wanted Nucky to win...

    by Darth_Tarantino

    ...like my friend Lewis who has been routing for Nucky this whole season, "I'm not looking for forgiveness," pretty much confirms that Nucky is the biggest bastard of them all. He's the villain, not the anti-hero. Again, great stuff :)

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Jimmy's words to Richard

    by Frank Dills

    Will be the path he follows next season. When Jimmy told him to "come home from the war," Richard will and head back to see his sister. I'm sure something will happen there also to send him off the deep end, but I also like Herc's thoughts on him becoming a ronin type figure. Wouldn't be surprised to see him a few seasons down the road raising Jimmy's child. As far as Mol's character, I think they might pit her against Margaret next season. Van Alden going to where Capone will eventually come to power is another great move. The rubes of course are thinking he will no longer be in the series, but I can see him working for Capone and wow what a hoot it would be to have scenes with Van Alden and Capone. Now here's a Frank Simms exclusive..... Many moons ago there was a movie called the St. Valentines Day massacre. It was a basic piece on the time period and the obvious. In the film, one of Capones "Fake Policeman" was one Adolph Mueller. Do I have to tell you what name Van Alden used for his new name in Cicero? If you guessed Mueller you get the prize. It's a perfect fit. Capone, needing a fake policeman would use who,probably an ex cop. Now, the Massacre didn't happen until the late 20's and they have talked about season 3 being 1923, but certainly this would be a nice fit. It's also safe to assume the writers have digested a lot of the gangster genre and have no doubt seen this film, and I would guess Van ALden using the Mueller name is a direct link, and foreshadowing of his future gimmick with Capone. They certainly didn't move him to Cicero by accident. Boardwalk Empire is the shit.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 3:15 p.m. CST

    For those who watched, what did you think about HBO's Luck?

    by dahveed1972

  • He says (and I agree) that Gillian is too good a villain to just have her fade away from the story.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 3:27 p.m. CST

    nice catch frank

    by chiwrtr72

    I give you crap when you are wrong about GoT, but that is a great, great catch about Mueller. Totally missed that!

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Boardwalk Empire

    by cea

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Boardwalk EMPIRE jumped the shark!!!

    by cea

    The show jumped the shark by killing Jimmy. He was the heart and anchor of the show. The father and son relationship between Jimmy and Nucky was key to the show's success thus far. Now that's gone. I don't care about anyone on the show. At least you loved Tony Soprano because you loved his family. You rooted for him. I don't love Nucky like that anymore. The fact that he killed Jimmy is horrible. I understand Jimmy was involved in trying to kill Nucky, but he didn't instigate it...he was confused...and he was manipulated by his biological father and Nucky's own brother. So I get why Jimmy fell into the wrong crew. Nucky made a huge mistake. Jimmy was misguided, but the loss of Jimmy's wife brought him back to reality. He would've been Nucky's right hand man...not the irish dude banging his wife. Not cool. At least Tony didn't kill Christopher until the last season...not season two. That sucks. I'm officially checking out of Boardwalk Empire. I also heard the reason Jimmy got killed was because of issues the producers had with the actor. It wasn't even for story...it was behind the scenes business. This show is done. This is probably the best season it will ever have.

  • WHY NOT?

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 4:43 p.m. CST

    I agree that Jimmy knew and it was necessary

    by ToughGuyRizzo

    However, what's in store for season 3 now without Jimmy? No Commodore either. Surprised Eli was welcomed back too.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 5:25 p.m. CST

    franksimms

    by john

    huge catch if this is what happens, writers are brilliant

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 5:26 p.m. CST

    can those who misuse jump the shark

    by john

    be banned? thank you

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 5:26 p.m. CST

    As I keep saying, Margaret is the Keystone

    by ZoeFan

    I still like Margaret, but I think at this point the viewer is supposed to dislike her. She is the main character for the beginning of Season 3. She holds all the cards. She goes, so does many of the main plot points and characters.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Robert Loggia - Sopranos

    by Tim

    Don't know what the hell you're tlaking about...Feach LaManna was a great character.

  • I'm still not buying the "Michael Pitt was a problem" rumors. Eat'em up if you will, but you're all gullible, or gullicalves

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 6:40 p.m. CST

    Funny.. Jimmy was "Stupid"

    by Red_Right_Return

    In the last few talkbacks I was reading. No one understood way he went against Nucky, and then at the end why he acted so erratically. It made perfect sense to me about Nucky, because the ugly little fucker sold his mom to some old fart as a sex slave. The repurcussions of this act by Nucky have defined Jimmy's whole life. His mom was made into a pedophile and he became a nut-case himself. Jimmy was dead before he ever came home from war, but Jimmy was a completely damaged person before he ever left. Thanks to Nucky. Some of you may think differently and think Jimmy owes everything to the old Nuckster, but somehow I don't think Jimmy agrees. I was a little confused about his rise to power this season, but it became clear that mommy was pulling the meat-strings all along. By the time he came to his senses, he was a dead man. On to my next point. Jimmy's death. I knew about 3/4 into the season that Jimmy was the walking dead. It had nothing to do with the actor's issues and everything to do with what happened in the story. Nucky was NEVER the good guy. He is a greedy soul-starved creep with a god complex who thinks he is better than anyone else, including criminals like Manny or Al Capone, but in reality he IS them. Nucky can't leave someone like Jimmy alive who has challenged his Alpha dominance of the BE. It wouldn't matter is he loved Jimmy, which Nucky isn't truly capable of, he would have to kill the kid just for the fact that the kid's little gang would have continued to thwart him and had lost all respect, or fear, of the grand old pooba. Killing Jimmy serves as a reminder to these crooked fucks that Nucky is capable of anything. He took out the only alpha male in town that would dare to stand against him. He removed a slight on his blemished persona. Nevermind Jimmy's story this season was entralling. It was awesome. The fact is, Jimmy had to go, or we would be watching freaking Sons of Anarchy season finale again. Finally, I don't understand the Margaret hate. The woman is mystfying. As good as she is evil. Her ability to erase her past evils or go along with what is best for her family at the price of others is unparalleled. Her conscience is under constant attack by her own false sense of honor. She wrote off her guilt for all the things she KNOWS Nucky did this season by giving the church money. Her final act of giving the land the church may be seen as a heroic act against the evil Nucky, but in my mind she is the biggest liar and traitor on the show. She is a loose cannon and Nucky will have to erase her or end up in jail. How long before her crazy justifications fall short of her crazy spirituality? Oh I guess I had one more thing - Owen is no Jimmy. Richard is a Jimmy, and that's where I end it.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 6:57 p.m. CST

    That was...

    by scors54

    One of the most amazingly ballsy season finales ever--period.I cannot wait to see how the Church vs. Nucky thing pans out along with the fal of Rothstein and the rise of Luciano, Lansky and Capone. And of course, how Richard is going to react to all of this. I will add my agreement to those who have observed that there are far too many whiny, complaining little cunts on these board who wouldn't know good TV or film if it jumped up and chomped down on their testicles. Shut the fuck up already.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 7:27 p.m. CST

    by cea

    so was jimmy...but look what happened to him. I can't stand her.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 7:33 p.m. CST

    The biggest problem with Homeland is Danes

    by Itchy

    She doesn't get her clothes off, and it just doesn't make sense. Her character is totally psycho. If she was portraying that accurately, she'd be fucking like a madwoman every episode. C'mon, Claire - throw a little something in for those of us in the itty bitty titty committee.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 7:33 p.m. CST

    Red_Right_return

    by cea

    totally agree

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 7:57 p.m. CST

    jimmy wasnt stupid. jimmy had a death wish

    by john

    stated quite clearly last season after he did the booze hijacking he tells nucky that he wasnt a hero, that he liked going over the trench...that he is in hell that was his final attempt to reach out to the man who he saw as his father but nucky, who does value family, but doesnt understand love...didnt get it...that is what totally sent jimmy over the edge the writers knew what they were doing...they just werent sure how it was going to end better this then a moltosanti 2.0....chris shouldve been whacked out a million times....a fuck up of epic proportions

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 7:58 p.m. CST

    itchy is right

    by john

    its why i wont watch homeland time for danes to go full frontal, or stfo

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 8:13 p.m. CST

    by Chris

    Maybe your taste sucks, Lana Lang.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Let's be honest

    by WINONA_RYDERS_PUSSY_JUICE

    Modern music sucks, modern movies suck, modern television shows suck. There's a couple good shows like Dexter but they're very rare. Boardwalk Empire is o.k. but I gave up on it very early. I decided to give it another chance when I heard they killed Jimmy, out of curiosity I guess.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 9:56 p.m. CST

    nucky isn't soulless

    by jsfithaca

    he clearly was saddened and angered by what he was doing to jimmy, but he knew he had to do it. jimmys betrayel was the last straw after years of unappreciation and destroying his own life when nucky worked so hard to help him succeed(all in nuckys opinion) dropping out of princeton, joining the war, his general hot headedness, the hijacking in the first episode. also i think he wanted to prove to jimmy he was more hard than jimmy thought he was. jimmy always implies that from that final scene, to the one where nucky tells jimmy to kill the d'alessios and jimmy says "i want you to say it" and "are you just trying to kid yourself?" nucky also definently feels sympathy for women and children. gangsters feel sympathy for the innocent, whether tony with animals or nucky with women and children. it also makes sense why he helped eli. eli came to him to make peace earlier, and as nucky always says, "blood runs thicker than water." and before eli was shot, he was a good sherriff even if nucky didnt always recognize it. he was more reliable than jimmy.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:09 p.m. CST

    Sad to see Jimmy go

    by Extr3m1st

    The show is going to suffer for it a bit IMO also for the loss of his wife and the Commodore. Also Margaret signing the paper work over to the church is just a ridiculous plot point, much like Jimmy just ripping up the Commodore's old will someone will head over to the Church and stick a gun in the priests mouth and he will sign that ish right over to Nucky again.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:11 p.m. CST

    And Brody just gave

    by Extr3m1st

    Carrie all the ammo she needed to put him squarely back into her cross hairs. As the coming attractions show, he is going to be wearing a bomb belt but I bet he doesn't go through with setting it off for one reason or another.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:13 p.m. CST

    thanks cartagia

    by Rebel Scumb

    I appreciate that.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 10:14 p.m. CST

    Just watched Homeland/Dexter/Boardwalk from last night

    by Rebel Scumb

    Great Homeland, I did not see that ending coming at all in terms of Brody calling in the CIA and exposing the affair. I was expecting a more cliched 'brody shows up with a gun and kidnaps Carrie' type resolve. this was far more powerful Boardwalk: wow! I went into it assuming Jimmy would die, the entire episode misdirected me away from it, and then bam! he did. and it wasnt that he died, or even that it was nucky who killed him, but that nucky didn't feely the least bit bad about it.

  • Dec. 12, 2011, 11:15 p.m. CST

    No Good in Nucky

    by Red_Right_Return

    I guess I just don't see anything good in Nucky. His selfishness is the basis for all his emotions, even the love that he feels. He is a criminal hiding behind the guise of a gentleman. At least Tony Soprano wasn't trying to be anything other than what he appeared to be. In the end, Nucky will lose because of his greed. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Let's talk about the character flaws I see with some of these criminals in BE. Jimmy's weakness was his mother. Rothstein's weakness, for those of you knowing your history, is his gambling. This season made that even more clear when he told Nucky that things were always a gamble. Eli's weakness is his desire to prove to his father and brother that he can be as good as Nucky, so basically his pride. Nucky has several weaknesses, but in my mind his worst weakness isn't even greed. Nucky is overconfident. Especially when he is ahead in the game. Also, he didn't just spare Eli because Eli is his brother, but because he needed a fall guy to take the fall for him. His legal problems disappear and Nucky has Eli's family "safe and taken care of." Which if history repeats itself, really means they are hostages no better than Theon Greyjoy in Game of Thrones.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 2:28 a.m. CST

    Jimmy seems far more integral to BE than moltisante was to Sopranos

    by FrodoFraggins

    I personally wouldn't have minded seeing Christopher die in the first couple of seasons. He was just a loose cannon and a junkie. Jimmy was far more integral to the first two seasons of BE than Christopher was to the Sopranos. Killing Jimmy sends the show on a much darker path and that could be a good thing. I'm just not sure who to root for other than Richard.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 4:42 a.m. CST

    They killed Jimmy! The Bastards!

    by Stalkeye

    Great season finale and wasn't as disappointing as say SOA's last ep. Although I'm pissed that Jimmy is no longer around, (My Wife decided to stop watching the series due to that pivitol scene.) at least the writer's have the balls to kill off a major character who had it not been for him, this series would not have been as good. Even Van Alden is more likely to have been written off the series after all Shannon is officially gone Hollywood. (Cay you say, "Zod"?) I hope Harrow take out those pissants Eli, Manny and especially Owen as the prick serves no real storytelling purposes other than boning Margaret. Oh, and kill that annoying bitch too.

  • There's a very specific reason the writers chose Cicero, IL for Van Alden's new home...

  • I was a bad call Ripley, A bad call...

  • It was Jimmy's redemption and of course, a tale of the tragic "Villain".(love the flashback scene of final memories of Jimmy fighting within the trenches.Very poignant.) But dammit if Pitt wasn't a major player in the series. The question now, is how defuck are they gonna fill Jimmy's shoes?!? The odds are in favor of Richard Harrow.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 5:42 a.m. CST

    Jimmy wanted to die

    by Extr3m1st

    Kinda doesn't make sense though I guess PTSD from the war and fucking his mother made him feel all sorts of screwed up. Amazing that Harrow with half a face and no chance at scoring loving pussy made it through while good looking Jimmy with the world at his nuts couldn't keep his mind right.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 5:53 a.m. CST

    While Jimmy was important, I think people are jumping the gun...

    by Rebel Scumb

    with saying this move will kill the show. There are tons of great characters still in play (but then I really like the Margaret story as much as the mob stuff). And while Jimmy was one of my favorites, and anchored a lot of stuff, he is also a character that could have overstayed his welcome if the writers ran out of things to do with him. This move gives them a chance to give the show a little jolt, take things in a new direction. And even if some reason the show sours from season3 onward, season 1 & 2 make a great 2 season show in and of itself. But I don't think that will happen, season 2 cemented my confidence in this show. Putting it in the very small pantheon where The Wire and Mad Men (and probably no other shows) reside.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 8:55 a.m. CST

    Margaret

    by invaderzim365

    Margaret still hasn't learned. It's not a sacrifice on her part to give away what belongs to someone else, even if it was put in her name, albeit temporarily. Just like with the stolen money from Nucky, this is another non-sacrifice. I suppose you can argue that it's a sacrifice because this is going to damage her relationship with her (new) husband. I don't see how he can forgive her for this. All his plans hinge on it. If that doesn't earn a bullet through the head, I don't know what does. I would love for season three to start that way. :D

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 10:19 a.m. CST

    Luck = Suck

    by no1ofimportance

    I'm really disappointed. I really like Mann, Milch, Farina, Nolte, and Hoffman. This show is unwatchable -- well, really unlistenable. The sound design is so messed up that I turned on closed captioning. The dialog is purposely mumbled, stuttered, jargoned, and accented, and then they drown it out with birds chirping, loud music, long held notes, running water, chairs scraping, etc. I thought the soundtrack and foley were supposed to enhance the atmosphere, not be center stage. It's got to be purposeful since the music will crescendo to drown out the dialog. When they showed the previews, the soundtrack was still loud, but the dialog became distinguishable. I hope they remix future episodes because I'd like to see Michael Gambon.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Jimmy's back!

    by deviloki

    I still hope that Richard will be able to save Jimmy's life, not without a long period of coma. But I'm afraid there's no room for that after George R R Martin.

  • Im actually gonna try that out the next time i have a "50/50" decision to make.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Of course its the kind of wisdom you get from an inveterate gambler.

    by dahveed1972

    Still good advice.

  • Especially the penultimate episode, which focusses on the mother.

  • That's why he enlisted. Jimmy never expected to actually survive the Great War. It killed his soul, what little he had thanks to Gillian, but his body survived intact (save for his leg.) Once he was back in the States he set about putting himself on a road that he knew could only end in one way - his death. Whether he planned for that death to be at Nucky's hand, or just as an extension of the violence that goes with the gangster lifestyle, who can say. But the kid was clearly self destructive from the get-go.

  • I love that crazy bomb making, bathroom garroting, wife fucking Irishman!

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Okay so at the time it was just mistress fucking

    by MrEkoLetMeLive

    But still, Owen is freaking awesome! I hope someday we get to see a final confrontation between him and Richard.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 12:09 p.m. CST

    I agree with sauronthepowerful generally

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    There is something contrived about Jimmy being killed this way, at this point in the show. Either they did a bad job of setting it up or they valued shock over any kind of reasonable context. Most if not ALL of the reasons for his misery happened - or were revealed - in the two episodes leading up to the finale. It seemed to me they were scrambling to set up his murder, but it just was too little too late.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 12:10 p.m. CST

    After experiencing Nuckys "turn"...

    by AnakinsDiapers

    ..i kind of think he deserves Margaret, his wife.<p> Then again, did we see Nucky "turn" or did we just get a good look at his inner self? We never got a first hand look into his time as the Comodores right hand. We do know he had the non-scruples to deliver underage girls to the Comodore. We can only imagine the shit Nucky was into before he rose.<p> Is Nucky "old school" like Manny? No, he's much more politic, he's much more new world. But as was shown, he's more than willing to go back to basics if he's pushed into a corner.<p> I guess as viewers, it was time for us to see this.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 12:54 p.m. CST

    i can just see nucky next season in his full gangsta mode...

    by JaredP

    hes gonna have his grills in his mouth, hes gonna name his gat, hes gonna pimp out his ride, hes gonna buy a shark tank for his penthouse and hes gonna get THUG LIFE tattooed across his chest. maybe he'll get a pitbull, too

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 1:35 p.m. CST

    The Commodore had it right

    by skycrapper

    This whole season was Jimmy "lifting his skirt up to be fucked" in more was than one. Also I'm in the liking Owen camp. I don't think he deserves more story time or anything but he works just fine as a fringe character.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 2:38 p.m. CST

    sauronthepowerful

    by Frank Dills

    A lot of times I encounter criticism here over my thoughts or ideas. I accept that. However I typically like the people to actually READ all of what I said instead of taking one thing out of context and running off to wikipedia desperately trying to score an elusive win against me and prove me wrong. From my post..."In the FILM, one of Capones "Fake Policeman" was one Adolph Mueller. Do I have to tell you what name Van Alden used for his new name in Cicero? If you guessed Mueller you get the prize. It's a perfect fit...It's also safe to assume the writers have digested a lot of the gangster genre and have no doubt seen this film, and I would guess Van ALden using the Mueller name is a direct link." I capitalized the word FILM to help you understand the point I was making. Never said he was from real life and I thought I explained that the writers could have used this FILM as an inspiration. The irony is not lost that you scolded me for not doing my research when your fuck up grows from that exact garden.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Would have worked better as a S3 finale.

    by _Maltheus_

    Although Jimmy had to die, I would have liked had he stuck around for one more season. My two favorite characters on this show have been Richard and Jimmy's mom (and my 3rd favorite was Jimmy). Without Jimmy on the show, they won't have anything to do. There's no one likable remaining. It's funny, I've been wanting Margaret to die all season because of what a bitch she is (not that she wasn't integral to the story), but after what Nucky did, I'm glad he's stuck with her. That's what he gets for trying to pretend he's more than he is. Even the "love" he has for the children is forced and fake. He goes through the motions with family, but there's no real emotion there (which is why it was so easy to kill his non-son). In a way, he's like what Dexter should have been. Damaged. God, I fucking hate how they trashed Dexter this season. It's not a tenth as good as the next worst season. It was bad enough, in the last ep, when he called 911 on his cell phone, in his voice. But now he's sending video text messages to Travis??? This world is full of idiots, and 9 out of 10 of them wouldn't be so stupid. But of course, nothing will come of it, because it's the writer's stupidity, not Dexter's. And the whole Deb loving Dexter thing, give me a fucking break! He IS the only person in her life and they've recently gone through a shit-load together. Why would that shrink even bring it up? And using a shrink to move a plot along is lazy anyhow. And now I have to go back again to my stupid prediction that lab geek is Brian's son. If he was just a collector, he wouldn't deface his collection. And it's such a stupid idea, that it's perfectly in keeping with this retarded season. This is my last, unless they fire Scott Buck.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 5:17 p.m. CST

    Been Thinking Hard About Boardwalk's Finale...

    by AidanJames

    ...and I'm deeply ambivalent about it. One the one hand it makes an amazing amount of sense. Nucky would remove his only legitimate threat and solidify any and all relationships that promise more money. Jimmy's story made sense in all the right ways, the acting was just as amazing as the writing for his end. Shit was just EPIC all around there... But. And this 'but' needs to be bolded, italicized, and written in 100 point type. The situation the writers have now set up for the next season is fucking stupid. They pretty much took every single character back to exactly the way they were at the end of the first season. This means that for likely 11 of 12 hours next year we get: Nucky and Margaret fighting over money vs morals. Richard wondering around and doing absolutely nothing (just like this year... and last year... he'll have a couple good scenes and just be lost in the shuffle of the people the writers WANT the show to be about) Gillian will fuck the first person she can dig a hook into for protection... likely Richard. Rothstein will calmly make business deals. Lucky will deliver great one liners after Meyer's business proposals. And then what? Well Nucky will likely kill his wife. Richard will likely kill Manny. Eli will buck Nucky's rule but still be a bitch... and lord help us Paz De La Huerta still has a fucking job. Where she's required to talk. So next year BE is ten or eleven episodes of business as usual fucking fluff followed by a season finale that brings probably everyone except Van Alden exactly (again) where they were at the start of the first fucking season. I deeply feel that BE s3e1 is the start of the show's long, slow decline... Michael Pitt shouldn't have asked for a raise... doesn't he know what happens when you do that on an HBO show that isn't "The Sopranos?"

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Franksimms, thanks for that Mueller information

    by Mattman

    I had no idea. That makes me VERY EXCITED for where they appear to be taking the Van Alden character. In fact, that makes perfect sense, given the extreme hypocrisy we've seen from him over the course of both seasons. I love the Van Alden character. I died laughing when he ran out of the FBI agent. His deadpan delivery is hilarious when contrasted by his actions.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 5:46 p.m. CST

    sauronthepowerful, this show is heavily fictional

    by Mattman

    They could actually do whatever they want, including speeding up time to make certain events happen.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 6:31 p.m. CST

    Said it in a paragraph...

    by AidanJames

    which was part of a sentence. You might have noticed. How are they not more or less in the same place? Or maybe I should say what part of the show can you forsee that wont be exactly the same type of things we've already seen? Apart from Van Alden slowly corrupting and Gillian fucking someone else. Seriously... just mark my words... lots of fluff.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 8:04 p.m. CST

    boardwalks finale

    by JaredP

    is comparable to the finale of the first season of 24, because it was so shocking and unexpected. it was alos just as tragic as that fianle, too

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 8:53 p.m. CST

    I just realized this also means more screen time for Richard

    by MrEkoLetMeLive

    How can ANYONE be bummed at that prospect? Could ANYONE have predicted that Richard would have outlived Jimmy? The fact that we met him, and through him got to know a lot more about Jimmy and Angela than we learned about him and now we're left to continue Richard's story with Jimmy and Angela both dead is pretty astounding to me. To those who say Jimmy suddenly developed a death wish in the final couple of episodes, let's look at his actions - to start, right off the bat he steals from Arnold Rothstein with a crazy guy he barely knows. That certainly could incur death at the hands of Rothstein along with any other number of consequences and ultimately forces him on the lam. Where's he go? California? Someplace as far as he can get that's mellow so he can lay low and start a new life under an assumed name? NO. He moves to freaking 1920's Chicago at the start of Prohibition. To quote Obi-wan never will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. From there, he gets himself involved in a turf war, comes back to AC and decides that he's going to throw his hat in with his pedophile father and incredibly lethal/hot/crazy mother and ELI to overthrow Nucky. Of the two Thompsons to side with, he chooses ELI. Then, on top of things he gets further involved with Lucciano, Lansky, and Capone and betrays Manny, who owns a butcher shop and a vast array of cleavers. Finally, after losing his wife rather than himself to his death spin, he atones and has Nucky do what he couldn't do himself. This is of course AFTER he spur of the moment enlists to fight in World War I. Yes, that sounds like a guy just bursting with a wish to go on living until, out of nowhere he suddenly decides to throw it all away. Because he had so many options left to him, the corner he'd painted himself into. The guy wanted to die, and he wanted it for a really long time. He just didn't want to go out by his own hand. He was a messed up guy and I think it's to the show's credit that they took such a hardass, violent, cool as ice character and then stripped it all away and showed what a wreck of a human being he is beneath it all. It's classic tragedy. Reminds me a lot of what "Mad Men" is doing via Don Draper. Hardly contrived, I'd say. I think why so many people have reacted so angrily is because Jimmy was an amazing character. I loved him. He was by far my favorite on the show and I'm super pissed he's dead. But that's what it's about! That's the writers doing their job. Brilliantly!

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 9:02 p.m. CST

    Now you want to talk "contrived?" Let's talk "Dexter"

    by MrEkoLetMeLive

    I mean talk about a show where NOTHING happens. WHAT HAPPENED last Sunday? Why could that not have been the finale already? END IT! JUST END IT ALREADY! Enough Colin Hanks trying to be scary! They're even goofing on it on "the Soup" now! Does anyone not see how it's going to go? Colin Hanks has Dexter inject himself. Dexter pretends to pass out, but HA HA Dexter put saline or some bullshit in his needle and just as Colin Hanks kneels over Dexter to stab him to death, Dexter will grab his knife and turn it around and he'll stab himself. Why he couldn't have just... OH shot him in the head when he injected him last Sunday, who's to say. Not "tableau" enough for him, I guess. Because suddenly every serial killer is a James Bond villain, I guess. Oh but Quinn finally realized he's an asshole, and oh surprise LaGuerta's an even bigger bitch than we realized. Shock of shocks.

  • Dec. 13, 2011, 9:07 p.m. CST

    As to the subject of Jimmy's kid and his crazy/sexy incestuous mom

    by MrEkoLetMeLive

    Who's to say Richard won't take charge of the boy's care like some kind of insanely scary Alfred Pennyworth?

  • I'd bet my paycheck the power people decided only recently to get rid of Jimmy. Who was at worst the number two principal on the show. And maybe the main star, even above Steve. I don't know what he did but you have to admit he is a different kind of bread if you've seen some of his interviews or photos away from working. Don't be fooled by the pr. Of course the producers are never gonna be totally honest about why he got fired twice in less than three months. By his agent and show. Pitt was have been fucking impossible but ironically, he was brilliant in the role. I just have a bad feeling for a show that could be one of the best. Man, was he good playing the role. He was my favorite character for sure. And I'll be surprised if they can write their way out of this huge hole. I"m still upset they whacked him. I hope Pitt gets his life in order now, you just hate for it to happen like this.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 4:28 a.m. CST

    I, Claudius...

    by workshed

    Boardwalk Empire's last few episodes have elevated it to a similar level. The deeds of Mol's 'Gillian' are comparable to Sian Phillips' 'Livia'; working behind the scenes, using her sexuality to position all the pieces of the chess board just where she wants them. One more thing... I hope they keep William Forsythe around for the duration. Imo his character stole the series. As someone who grew up with 'Once Upon A Time In America', it certainly put a smile on my face the second he appeared. His presence adds real gravitas and tension to any scene he's in. Having met La Motta in '89, I'm almost interested as to how 'Raging Bull II' will turn out.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 4:43 a.m. CST

    Thanks, Choppah

    by MrEkoLetMeLive

    I knew I sensed a kindred spirit!

  • This is the one thing that I was perplexed about from the finale - Nucky's phone conversation with Rothstein. How did Rothstein's answer of "I would have no opinion about it either way" in relation to the killing of Waxy Gordon seemingly influence Nucky's decision to kill Jimmy? Because right after that, Nucky says, "Well, I suppose I have a big decision to make," to which Rothstein replies "flip a coin." I wasn't clear on the subtext going on there. I need to go back and watch the whole season again, but clearly I've missed something.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 10:30 a.m. CST

    RE: Behemoth's question about the phone moment

    by MrEkoLetMeLive

    Nucky wasn't asking Rothstein if it was okay to kill Waxey, but rather Manny Horvitz. Horvitz had worked for Waxey who works with Rothstein, but Horvitz had broken off to try and do his own thing. Nucky knew of the connection to Rothstein through Waxey, so he was asking him if he objected to Manny being killed, not Waxey. The flip of the coin reply was to whether Nucky wanted to forgive Jimmy and help him kill Manny, or if he wanted to kill Jimmy for betraying him. I'm not sure how Manny's betrayal of Waxey will play out now that Nucky's partnered up with Waxey and Rothstein. Guess we'll have to wait for season 3 to see what comes of that. I could be wrong about all that, but that's how I took it.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 11:40 a.m. CST

    Thanks for the insight, mrekoletmelive

    by Behemoth

    Yeah, I meant Horvitz,not Waxey. Too many gangsters to keep track of without repeated viewings. Yeah, I had the same take on it as you, but I figured there must be something more there than simply Nucky flipping a coin to determine whether Jimmy lived or died. It was also Rothstein's delivery of the line, "I would have no opinion of that either way." It was so drawn out and seemed almost as if he was speaking in code, as if there was some hidden meaning behind what he was saying that perhaps only Nucky would understand. That's what threw me and made me feel like I was missing something, especially since, after Rothstein's comment, Nucky said, "Well, I guess I have a big decision to make." Perhaps he was hoping Rothstein would tell him NOT to kill Horvitz, making his decision easy. But knowing that both could be taken out, now he had to choose, making his decision to kill Jimmy even more of a calculated thing. I'm assuming Horvitz meant nothing to Nucky anyway, and that, if he did kill him or betray him to Jimmy, it would be solely for Jimmy's benefit. I need to watch the episode again. Actually, the whole freakin' season. Remus truly enjoyed it.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Nucky killing Jimmy

    by optimus122

    I guess he had it coming but he was never really 100 percent down with trying to kill Jimmy. He reluctantly went along with it so to not look weak. But still in the end he got what was coming to him. Do you guys think Harrow knew Jimmy was never coming back after that phone call? I actually for the first time thought ill of Nucky, he could have spared the kid the way it seems he is sparing his brother.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Crap i mean he was never 100 percent down with killing Nucky

    by optimus122

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Jimmy trying to kill Nucky

    by Behemoth

    Yeah, Jimmy was very uncomfortable with it at first, but remember when the attempt happened? Jimmy approached Nucky and made some kind of comment to him about making decisions (I can't remember exactly what he said), and it was a pretty cold moment for Jimmy. At first, I thought maybe he was trying to warn Nucky, but now it seems like he was basically trying to point him out to the shooter, the way Judas pointed out Jesus with a kiss. As much as I hate Nucky now for doing what he did, you have to admit, that act by Jimmy was just about as cold as what Nucky did to him. So basically, they were both uncomfortable with killing each other, but in the end, they both attempted to go through with it. Unfortunately for Jimmy, Nucky was successful. Jimmy was really a scumbag in a lot of ways, at least on the surface. But what struck me about him, and I think what touched people about him as a character, was how broken he was, how horrifically abused psychologically he'd been at the hands of every possible role model he could've had. Nucky was his best role model, but even he was complicit in sending his 13-year old mom-to-be to the Commodore, like some sort of pimp. And we never really knew the details of what he ended up doing during the War, which must've pretty much crushed the last parts of his soul.

  • From the EW article. ''Michael is a total professional.'

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Amazing season but im also unsure about Jimmys demise

    by judge dredds fresh undies

    I would have prefered that Nucky killed Eli, he has always been a weasel while Jimmy has always seemed to have some modicum of integrity. I think Nucky knew that. The only issue I could see with this is that Eli was such a convenient fallguy for Nuckys legal problems, maybe thats why Jimmy had to go more than anything else.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Good point Judge

    by Extr3m1st

    Eli is going to sit in prison for 2 years, no way Nucky wants him dead and the finger still being pointed at himself.

  • I love that Eli ends up in the same position the Commodore once did - having to go to jail while Nucky stays free. As for the attempt on Nucky's life, I have to think that in Atlantic City, Nucky Thompson doesn't need to be pointed out to anyone, even a hitman. I think Jimmy was there to throw off the timing of the attempt on Nucky's life. Remember there's a moment in the next episode where he gives Capone shit for it, to throw his three partners off his scent. I think that's further proof that Jimmy wanted to die at Nucky's hands. When trying to get back in Nucky's good graces, Jimmy could easily have mentioned saving his life, but he purposely didn't. Behemoth, you're absolutely right. As a kid, Jimmy had ZERO role models to look up to. One of the things I loved about the first season was at the start not being clear on whether Jimmy was Nucky's son, then Nucky mentions Jimmy's dad in the third person, but you still don't know who it is. Meanwhile, you're seeing the Commodore, but never make the connection until they tell you Jimmy's his son. At least I never made the connection, because Jimmy's the son of a showgirl who had him at 13 and the Commodore's this rich, powerful, behind the scenes guy. Didn't see Jimmy being his son coming at all.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 4:29 p.m. CST

    So we lost Paz, Commodore, Angela, Eli and Jimmy this season

    by Rebel Scumb

    They really cleaned house in retrospect.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 4:31 p.m. CST

    mrekoletmelive

    by Rebel Scumb

    I didn't see that coming either. It was well handled.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Still loving Gillian

    by Extr3m1st

    Slapping the shit out of the commodore, the dude just had a stroke and she fucking wailed on him lmfao. She is one sick hot bitch.

  • Dec. 14, 2011, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Nucky isn't Al Swedgin

    by IamZardoz

    In Deadwood Al started out as your routine evil dude and ended up being sort of the good guy. I thought Nucky would be the same way but it turns out he is always a lying turd. The only characters you can enjoy are Harrow and Chalky, the rest are basically slimeballs. I think they fucked up killing off Jimmy, Pitt may be an ass in real life but I liked the character he played. Im in for season 3 but think the writers screwed this up.

  • was invented here, on this TB. He had a falling out with his agent (which many actors do, btw). The interviews with Winters make it very clear that Jimmy's demise was something they dreaded doing. He literally says the rumors of Pitt being difficult are not true. There is no black and white there. I'll take him at his word, rather than a bunch of gossipers who think they know everything despite not being on set.

  • Dec. 15, 2011, 6:14 p.m. CST

    And with that, I'm off

    by Mattman

    Catch you guys on the Thrones talkback. Franksimms, you the man.

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