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Herc Says Starz’ BOSS Finale Gets It Done!! Chat Here Also About GOLD RUSH, CHUCK, GRIMM, FROSTY, VIRGINIA, ONION NEWS NETWORK, PAYNE And More!! Friday TV Talkback!!
You thought last week’s “Boss” was good? With Kane’s interrogation of Kitty? And Emma going into lockup? And Sam Miller getting kicked up the ladder at the Sentinel? With Zajac’s wife suddenly growing a personality? Tonight Kane’s compromising photos are discussed -- and “Boss” cements its status of one of the best shows of the year. Know this show does not fuck around tonight.
"Boss" isn't "The Wire," but it fills that vacuum for me far more ably than does "Treme."
To anticipate the question, a second season of "Boss" was greenlit before the first premiered.
“Chuck” and “Grimm” are back following a two-week hiatus.
Fridays, Sept. 9-Dec. 2, 2011
(Adults 18-49; repeats in gray; previous weeks in parentheses)
1.9 (1.7) (1.5) (1.6) (1.6) (1.3) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Gold Rush
1.6 (1.1) (2.0) (1.7) (2.1) (---) (1.7) (1.8) (1.9) (1.8) (2.0) (0.9) (0.8) Blue Bloods
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1.4 (0.9) (1.7) (1.7) (1.6) (1.4) (1.8) (1.7) (1.6) (1.7) (1.8) (0.8) (0.7) CSI NY
1.3 (0.9) (---) (---) (0.9) (0.4) (0.7) (0.4) (0.5) (0.6) (0.7) (1.0) (1.0) College Football
1.3 (---) (1.3) (1.2) (1.2) (1.0) (1.2) (1.2) (1.2) (1.2) (1.4) (---) (---) A Gifted Man
1.3 (1.2) (1.4) (1.2) (1.1) (1.2) (2.0) (1.2) (1.1) (1.2) (1.0) (1.2) (1.0) 20/20
1.2 (---) (1.3) (0.7) (1.3) (1.0) (1.5) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Extreme MHE
1.0 (---) (1.6) (1.4) (1.2) (1.3) (1.0) (1.5) (1.4) (1.6) (2.0) (1.5) (1.8) Dateline
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0.9 (1.4) (---) (---) (---) (0.6) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) For Better Or Worse
0.8 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Austin & Ally
0.8 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) FX Movie
0.8 (1.1) (0.6) (0.6) (0.6) (0.6) (0.5) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) House of Payne
0.7 (0.7) (0.7) (0.8) (0.7) (0.6) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Flying Wild Alaska
0.7 (0.5) (0.5) (0.7) (0.6) (---) (0.7) (0.5) (0.5) (0.7) (---) (---) (---) Phineas & Ferb
0.7 (0.8) (0.9) (---) (---) (0.7) (0.8) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Robot Chicken
0.7 (---) (0.7) (0.8) (0.8) (0.7) (0.8) (0.8) (0.7) (0.7) (0.8) (---) (0.3) Supernatural
0.6 (---) (1.3) (1.6) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) College Basketball
0.6 (---) (0.5) (0.8) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Kung Fu Panda
0.6 (0.9) (0.9) (1.0) (1.0) (0.8) (0.9) (1.0) (1.0) (0.9) (1.1) (0.7) (1.0) WWE Smackdown
0.5 (---) (0.5) (0.5) (0.5) (0.5) (0.5) (---) (0.4) (0.5) (0.4) (0.5) (0.5) Diners, Drive-Ins
0.5 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Game Of Your Life
0.5 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (0.5) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Good Luck Charlie
0.5 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Jeff Dunham
0.5 (---) (0.6) (0.6) (0.6) (0.6) (0.6) (0.5) (0.5) (0.6) (0.6) (---) (0.3) Nikita
0.5 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) So Random
0.5 (---) (0.7) (---) (---) (0.6) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Very Funny News
0.4 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Carlos Mencia
0.4 (0.5) (0.5) (0.5) (---) (0.5) (---) (0.5) (---) (0.4) (0.5) (0.5) (---) Clone Wars
0.4 (---) (0.4) (0.3) (0.4) (0.4) (0.4) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Crave
0.4 (---) (---) (0.4) (---) (0.5) (0.4) (0.5) (0.6) (---) (0.4) (---) (---) Ghost Adventures
0.4 (0.4) (0.5) (0.5) (0.4) (0.3) (0.5) (0.5) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Hairy Bikers
0.4 (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) (---) Real Deal
0.4 (0.4) (0.4) (0.4) (0.6) (0.5) (0.5) (0.5) (0.5) (---) (0.4) (0.5) (0.4) Say Yes To The Dress
$49.99!! Cheapest LORD OF RINGS EXTENDED EDITION Blu-ray Ever!!
Readers Talkback
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hasn't been as good this year. I stopped watching chuck 2 years ago. Friday nights are dvr night for fringe and gold rush for me, that's about it.
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Last week's episode was some of the finest television I have ever seen. Truly great.
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I wish there was a true Onion News Network (on tv), be a whole lot better than what's out there now.
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on a special night. It's another new episode tonight. I'm actually looking forward to a 3 little pigs episode. The show's grown on me. I'd timeshift watching it when Fringe had new episodes, but that won't be happening this week.
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You want balls? THIS show has balls.
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Dec. 9, 2011, 11:40 a.m. CST
I just started Boss yesterday on Talkbacker and Friends recommendation
by Cartagia
I'm 3 episodes in so far, and I'm about to start the fourth. Pretty fucking good.
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Dec. 9, 2011, 12:02 p.m. CST
I gotta admit it: there's not a trace of Frasier in Tom Kane
by Dr Hemlock
Kelsey Grammer has done a fine job creating a brand new chararcter. Edie Falco did the same thing when she became Nurse Jackie - all traces of Carmela Soprano were gone.
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More people should watch it.
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i haven't seen it yet, but you guys are making it seem awesome. i need to check it out. only problem is i havent seen any episodes, and i have directv so no ondemand. anyone know where i can watch it from the start?
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...but, won't post any spoilers. Beaks sees the six minutes of THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, but, doesn't give any details. Lets finally be honest. This site exists only so the WRITERS can get something out of it, right? Like, you can make contacts with other industry folk or get bigger jobs like Moriarty? Because, as a rumor/gossip site, its been pretty lame for some years now. Or, do you have a romanticized version of the site in your heads which makes you believe its basically a 'high-end" message board where film geeks can go and geek out over everything geeky? With everything being positive, though. No negativity here, of course.
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I've seen the first 3 eps and so far while good it hasn't for me reached the level of being a great show like everybody claimes it is. My question is when does it cross over from solid to great?
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After the first episode, I wasn't truly hooked. For me, this year, it was Homeland. Took about 20 mins into that and it had me. This show, however, I knew it was going to take a few eps, but I knew it would be worth it. Personally, for me, it was last episode (#7, i think?). But this isn't to say the entire season isn't fantastic, especially on a 2nd viewing when you can go back and see things kinda build up. Watch the whole season, and the last two episodes (at least based on Herc's review above) will make it worth it. If you end up disagreeing with me, then you can chop off my ears. Just don't bury me alive.
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Guess I wasn't aware this was the S1 finale. Are Starz dramas usually eight eps? Do you know if next season will be a slightly larger order (I notice Spartacus had 13), or probably another eight?
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Dec. 9, 2011, 3:54 p.m. CST
Boss is perfect except no one sounds like they are from Chicago
by picardsucks
And aside from the fact that they don't have actors that sound like terrible uebonics majors in outlandish cheap suits for the south side aldermen (the most corrupt politicians on the face of the planet) Otherwise it nails Chicago Democrat politics pretty well
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How good is it? Is it worth me watching the whole season in 1 marathon weekend? What series would you compare it to? Is it as good as Homeland? How good a job does Kelsey do as the lead character?
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Dec. 9, 2011, 4:44 p.m. CST
Boss is like The Wire if that show was only focusing on the political side of things
by memento108
True. And it has been good all season, as Kane is a VERY complex television character. But last episode was just superbly shocking television. Like someone else mentioned, things built up to a certain point and everything just came to a head and went in a direction that was VERY unpredictable. It's easy to see why Starz gave this show a second season before the first even aired.
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He's not gonna win an Emmy over Bryan Cranston, but he DESERVES to be right there next to him as runner-up.
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How good is it? Very good. Is it worth me watching the whole season in 1 marathon weekend? Yes. Probably the best way to view it. What series would you compare it to? As memento said, it's very much like The Wire if it focused solely on the political end of things. My addendum to that would be "the politics and the media." There is a good amount of media involvement. Is it as good as Homeland? Personally, that's my favorite show right now. I would say it comes in second, and I'm sure you would probably agree. That's no reason not to watch Boss, however. How good a job does Kelsey do as the lead character? Really amazing. There are a couple scenes in particular where he will just blow you away. Overall, he's fantastic though. Agreed with memento that it isn't quite Cranston-grade.
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I will be checking it out this upcoming week.
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boss has been greenlit for 10 episodes next seeason
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but it's close... goal difference close...
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...I want to see someone succeed or because I enjoy the fact that nobody has so far. Maybe a bit of both.
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...I'm going to watch it from start to finish. For some reason I kept missing it, even though I fully intended to check it out before now.
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Really, it does. Finale was pretty great.
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The Hoffmans on that show are the biggest bunch of shit talkers. The only thing convincing that mining crew to follow those fools now is the pay they get from the Discovery Channel. What idiots would bring their families with them on their first mining season, thinking they'd be millionaires in a few weeks' time? The ignorance displayed by these people makes me root for their failure. "We're all millionaires... we just gotta git it outta the ground." Sheesh.
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Perhaps the best talkback nick of all time.
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......Spoiler ALERT***** ....I kinda saw the 'political aide as Judas' angle coming a while back only because they were trying so hard point the focus and suspicion away from him. I didn't buy his motivation for doing it though - even though I liked the speech/narration he did at the end their overlaying his death scene. At some point I expected Kane to wake up from a delirium or seizure of some sort, with all of it having been a delusion as a result of his degenerative neurological disease, so it was somewhat welcome sight to see him having a seizure at the end assuring us that it was all real. Especially considering the fact that he hasn't taken any meds in a while and his 2 sources of illegal medication (his doctor and his daughter) are both out of the picture thanks to his doing. Some nice acting at the end there from Connie Neilsen as the estranged political wife, and also a nice welcome return from Alderman Ross in how-shall-we-say dramatic fashion after that eerily quiet response to seeing the photos of Zajac boning his wife. I thought he took it pretty well. If I have one criticism of this finale, it's that it felt a bit rushed, although considering how much they had to cram in, I can't really say I blame them. Really looking forward to season 2 - glad they renewed it. I'm guessing the doctor and the reporter/editor come back in a big way. It'll also be interesting to see what they do with Kitty's storyline as well. I'm guessing she keeps the baby.
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Well, that was an unusually violent end to a Chuck episode. Can't honestly say I saw that coming.
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Ya, I wasn't expecting them to bump him off ;) The lesson is you don't fuck with Trinity! Chuck has been great these past few episodes.
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Dec. 10, 2011, 9:47 a.m. CST
I really like Boss so far, would compare it to Boardwalk empire season 1...
by Rebel Scumb
And I want to qualify that in saying unlike a lot of people I quite liked Boardwalk season 1, but in that it hasn't quite tip the scale for me in terms of going from 'a show I watch every week' to 'A show I will buy on blu-ray/dvd when it's released' I have nothing bad to say about Boss, and if we didn't live in an era with several top caliber premium cable shows it would easily be among the best shows ever made. Plus Kathleen Robertson as Kitty is supremely sexy! Looking forward to season 2.
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You didn't see a body, so that means he's probably not dead. We'll probably find the two of them struck a deal and will be working together against Carmichael Industries when it comes time for the season finale.
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There really aren't likable people on the show. I'm not sure I want to watch another season of backstabbing and bad people getting their way.
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Dec. 10, 2011, 4:20 p.m. CST
Nothing makes me laugh like Brooke Alvarez being a bitch
by David Cloverfield
Sunny, Community and p&r pale next to Onion News Network. I wasnt sure about the new introduced storylines, but the pop star bit totally killed me on the last ep. I had to rewind that segment three times. So awesome,
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Fucking amazing. The ending was so well put together it gave you chills. Talk about a show delivering..this is instantly in the top hours of television I have ever watched.
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I've been hooked since the premiere, it is indeed a more dramatic version of the political arc from the Wire s3-s4. Great stuff, and glad to hear more are on their way. B
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Dec. 10, 2011, 6:24 p.m. CST
That is the main thing about Boss that keeps the audience at a distance
by Rebel Scumb
I'm all for complex, dark and morally ambigious characters. But there really isn't anyone to engage with on Boss.
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Dec. 10, 2011, 6:25 p.m. CST
its also funny that no one notices all these high ranking city officials getting whacked
by Rebel Scumb
especially with the mayor and city hall under a microscope
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....'The Sopranos' didn't have any likeable characters or people you could connect to or 'engage' with either. Tony was a a bully and a racist. Carmella was a hypocrite and materialistic. AJ was a spoilt brat and a general douchebag. Meadow came the closest to being likeable but she knew what her family was and was okay with it. The FBI were no better either, gleefully using people or informants and having no problem placing them in direct harm's way and even watching them get killed if it helped them build a Rico case. Part of what makes shows like Sopranos and even the Wire so great is that the main characters are all so fundamentally flawed that they are not so obviously 'black' or 'white' or 'good' and 'evil' like comic book characters that it becomes obvious who to root for and against. It's the same with BOSS. Every character is supposed to be flawed and morally ambiguous or even morally reprehensible even and not easily rooted for or even against.
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Was actually pretty good. They set up Eddie as more than a punching bag for Nick to have the blutenbad do whatever he wants to. The idea of inter-creature fighting (pig vs. wolf) was good, and they did less with the one-liners and more with the character depth. Now, if they'd just drop Nick's girlfriend, who contributes pretty much nothing to the series other than a bland Lois- Lane type.
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They took the step of killing off the hapless Hap, which was kind of a shock. You don't usually see lovable losers get brutally gunned down on these types of shows. It's good for motivation for Angelina as a recurring character, if they bring her back.
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....only 2 were whacked. Alderman Mata and Kane's aide at the end. The guy who worked for Mata and had him buried in cement was arrested towards the end for questioning by the FBI. And we still don't know what the fall out will be for Kane's aide being whacked, but let's not forget that he was killed by the same hitman he used to use to do all the mayor's dirty work, and also that Tom Kane pretty much has the city police and whoever sits in Springfield (which would include both the Governor - whoever he happens to be as we obviously saw in that episode - and the chief of the State troopers). So who's going to raise a kerfuffle about any of the deaths when any of the people that can either report it, testify or investigate it (and one can assume prosecute it as well) are all beholden to Tom Kane as well? The show is not called Boss for nothing. Obviously it was important not to make him a completely untouchable, and as we saw at the end he still has that Newspaper reporter/editor gunning for him and the doctor who treated him seems ready to talk. And then there's his disease. So there's going to be a lot he'll have to deal with in season 2 - including, probably the fallout from his aide's death, which is sure to raise alarms among people like Kitty who know what Kane is capable of.
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The only character I pretty much despised was Christopher. But even the darkest characters on the sopranos had a sense of humor. Boss is a very good show, but the characters aren't sympathetic at all. I don't think tony would sacrifice his family the way Kane does. Kane is dying and doesn't even garner sympathy. By the end of the series, Tony was seen as irredeemable, but not early on. People enjoyed watching Tony do his thing. I haven't really enjoyed anything Kane has done. I'm just a spectator from a great distance.
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Sure he was bad at it but he wasn't cold and isolated. The same goes for Carmella, who was very selfish but cared about her kids. Pauly Walnuts was a cold dude but also hilarious. Seeing him realize he'd always be alone was sympathetic. Boss really needs to work on making the characters a bit more real and balanced. Even the most calculating people can do good things for good reasons sometimes.
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Dec. 10, 2011, 7:52 p.m. CST
Actually, the real reason for Boss' low ratings is simple
by OutsideChance
It's on STARZ.
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Nielsen families sure are a fickle bunch.
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Dec. 10, 2011, 8:43 p.m. CST
I don't think tony would sacrifice his family the way Kane does.
by Kai_Mah'gra
You mean the way he murdered his own nephew with his own hands?? Or do you mean the way he tried to suffocate his own mother with a pillow when she was on a hospital bed?
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Sure they did. Like bullying his sister and trying to sabotage her attempts to overcome her anger problem. Or racistly insulting and abusing his daughter's half-black boyfriend. Or maybe you're referring to how he drove his high school buddy to bankrupcty first, and then suicide after forcing him make his son to give up his car (to his schoolmate Meadow) to pay off a debt,that was caused by Tony himself. I don't really mind the gummahs, the cheating or even the violence in the course of their chosen profession. But the moral ambiguity in trying to paint Tony as being a more honorable character forced into doing ugly things by his circumstances and his destiny kinda rings hollow to me. He was an intentionally reprehensible individual whom David Chase stated that he specifically wrote that was to force the audience into having to root for someone they would normally despise in real life.
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well that was weird seeing Abed and shirley crossover! greendale folks gotta eat.
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To be fair, I didn't particularly like Sopranos either. But granted I only watched the first season and that was only a few months ago. I would argue that the therapist was a pretty likeable character. And while Tony is a bully we also see a great deal of a vulnerable side to him, and his absolutely awful mother so its easy to see how he ended up the way he did. Tony was boxed into a role that his family/neighboorhood expected of him and even in the first season I felt there was a very real sense that he would have been a completely different man if he'd grown up in a better environment. And again, I'm not arguing against darker characters. most of the best shows have them. But it's a fine line a show has to walk. Mad men, The Wire, Boardwalk, Homeland, carnivale, and even Lost and Battlestar all had characters that were very morally ambigious but still deeply engaging. I'm not saying Boss won't get there, it just hasn't for me yet. Part of that to is the very clinical and cold tone of the show. Which I actually really like, but it has a distancing factor to. When I watch boss, I don't feel I am in the shoes of any of the characters, I'm a fly on the wall observing a very very heightened and at times dangerous group of people with high stakes in the balance. But even for all the terrible things they've done, there was a part of me that can always relate to Dexter, or Stringer Bell, or Ben Linus, or Gaius Baltar, or Brother Justin. All of whom are absolutely dispicable, cold blooded killers.
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and again I don't see it as a criticism of the show. I'm pretty sure this is exactly the show they set out to make, but as you said it has a distancing effect. That may change over time, and different people will have different views on it to be sure (as already evident in this talk back) On the flipside I couldn't get into breaking bad for exactly the same reason (and did give it a good shot, watched all of seasons 1-2 and most of 3). There just isn't any characters on that show I like. And I don't mean that they need to be 'good guys' but I just don't feel engaged by any of them. They all feel 1 dimensional, and unlikeable to me. I would actually go so far as to say I consider breaking bad a 'bad' show. Though I know that is not the popular opinion. Boss I consider to be a very good show. But for me as I put before, the best criteria I can rate it on is I will continue to watch it, but at present have no need to ever 'rewatch' it. And that could easily change. It certainly has for me with Boardwalk Empire. Again, a show I watched weekly, but didn't really ever think about when it wasn't on. But with season 2 I now count it among the best of tv ever produced. It just depends how Boss continues.
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I actually agree with everything you said (which may be part of why Sopranos never really grabbed me, also I'm just not really into the whole Mafia tough guy thing, godfather 1 aside) But I do think it's more in terms of the presentation of Tony that is different from Mayor Kane. For all Tony's terrible flaws, we also see him vulnerable, understand his secret desires, his fears, his hopes, his regrets. We get snippets of that with Kane, but he is for the most part a cold calculating bastard, and we aren't given much more on him than that.
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apparently there really is an episode of Cougartown where abed is an extra!
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This is the shows last season. And it's a short season to boot. So the odds of that happening are pretty slim. Besides they were all looking right at him when the bomb went up, it would be pretty hard to come back from that one (though a possibility I'll admit). It's not like Shaw where most of the fans are pretty sure he's going to reappear at some point after pulling the "fall into the river after being shot" setup and a body never being found.
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Dec. 11, 2011, 11:27 a.m. CST
To the Nitpicker: Tony wouldn't sacrifice his daughter the way Kane did
by FrodoFraggins
There's nothing to like about Kane. I liked Tony for the most part until near the end. Your argument fails. Boss focuses solely on character flaws. It's an issue they need to deal with. At this point I don't care what happens to the characters, I'm just watching nasty politicians. Like I said, it's a good show but I don't feel anything for a single one of the characters. That wasn't the case in Season 1 of the sopranos or any other show I love. I really like Boss, but the lack of sympathy for a single character prevents me from relating to them or really loving the show.
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Dec. 11, 2011, 5:47 p.m. CST
To the Nitpicker picking the Nitpicker: You're right, I mean it's not like Tony would actually KILL someone related to him....
by Kai_Mah'gra
....or rather related to his wife by blood, by his OWN hands. The way he did Chris. Or ACTUALLY try to kill his OWN MOTHER while she's lying on a hospital bed. Oh wait, he did. Last I checked, Tom Kane only got his estranged daughter - whom he hadn't talked to in years before that, probably - arrested for drug dealing - AN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY the last time I check. Hypocritical? Sure, especially in light of the fact that he was up until that point getting illegal drugs from her. Cold-hearted? No doubt. especially in light of the fact that it was all for political expediency. But then again it's not like he tried to strangle her while she was lying bleeding to death in pain after they were both involved in a car accident. Because that would be soooo much better, right? So let's recap frodobaggins' special logic: Get your daughter arrested for ILLEGALLY dealing illegal drugs. Bad. BAAAAAAAAAD. Try to kill you own mother and fail and then later on try to kill your Nephew with whom you were shooting the breeze just a few seconds ago and whose fiancee you had gunned down like an animal in the forest, and succeed in killing him? GREAT. GREAT CHARACTER. Sympathetic, relatable, genuine. And that's not even count the philandering, the drug-taking, the racism, the violent bullying and abusive behavior, the misogyny and the oh-so-lovable greed. But I know, I know, I'm Nitpicking, right? They're both morally flawed characters and intentionally written that way. But you can't discount one for his flaws that come nowhere close to the reprehensible nature of the other character, just because the other one had the benefit of 6 seasons to flesh out his whole "family-man/loving-father" part of his character's personna while this one that you're comparing him to only had 8 episodes to cram every thing into. That doesn't even make sense. How well fleshed out was Tony Soprano as a relatable likable character by episode 8 of Season 1? So before "failing" my argument, what say you actually re-assess the standards by which your forming your own argument and see if they even make logical sense, huh?
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Why exactly did he has his guy(acts like Mike from BB) get rid of the doctor and the nurse? Was he covering his sickness by getting rid of the doctor and the nurse because she knew too much? And what did she uncover that I missed? And how was Ezra tied into this guy?
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Stoney is the one that leaked the info to the press about Kane. He got the information from the nurse, and was trying to stop her from telling Kane that it was him. The doctor's relocation was business as usual (IE, protecting Kane).
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But got his orders from Stoney, so after Stone was out of the picture, Kane went directly to him (attacking the nurse was an assignment he was given by Stone, probably having been told that Kane ordered it).
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Boss is Tits and Beer
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