Greetings, all. Ambush Bug here with the second of a special two part AICN HORROR: ZOMBIES & SHARKS column focusing on the uber-fun ode to drive in and grindhouse horror features, CHILLERAMA. I posted my conversation with CHILLERAMA directors/writers Adam Rifkin (DETROIT ROCK CITY), Adam Green (HATCHET, FROZEN), and Joe Lynch (WRONG TURN) yesterday. The fourth writer/director from the film is Tim Sullivan (2001 MANIACS). I had a chance to have a chat with Sullivan about his segment in the film (I WAS A TEENAGE WEREBEAR), how CHILLERAMA came about, the death of the drive-in, not-so-subtle gay undertones in horror, and much more. Enjoy!
AMBUSH BUG (BUG): Hi, Tim!
TIM SULLIVAN (TS): Hey, how are you?
BUG: Good, good. It’s great to talk to you today.
TS: Are you kidding me? It’s an honor to talk to you. I love Ain’t It Cool News. So this all came about when me and Rifkin were doing DETROIT ROCK CITY and we used to read Ain’t It Cool News. It hadn’t really been around that long, but we thought it was the coolest thing in the world and I reached out to Harry and it turns out he was a huge KISS fan, so we met him at the premiere of DETROIT ROCK CITY.
BUG: That’s very cool, and I love that movie. That was such a great movie. I actually saw in the special features of the CHILLERAMA DVD you did an interview with FAMOUS MONSTERS and you talked about you guys and DETROIT ROCK CITY. You were a producer on that one, is that correct?
TS: Yeah. That was my…well, if you don’t count a little 16 year old production assistant on DEADLY SPAWN back in 1982, DETROIT ROCK CITY was my first really big thing.
BUG: Well, DEADLY SPAWN was a pretty cool movie. (laughs)
TS: It’s crazy, man, we made that in New Jersey. I was a horror movie fan, but it wasn’t very popular to be a horror movie fan back then. I mean God, I don’t know what, but I think my classmates and teachers were just amused by me, because I was always doing these crazy little monster things and always wearing the KISS t-shirts or the monster t-shirts and reading FANGORIA in class. Now it’s a whole different thing, but back then in the 70’s and 80’s when kids would be like “Hey, you want to go play football?” “I’m going to the drive in.” “By yourself?” “Fuck yeah man. THE LAST RITES OF DRACULA is playing and it’s the only way to see it.” (laughs)
BUG: I’m 39 and it was just a little bit before my time before the drive-ins kind of went away, but I got to see a couple of films in the drive in, but I always loved the experience. It’s such a great kind of communal way of doing that. It’s like just bringing your cars which is all a part of you and you bring your family along…it was such a great period.
TS: And the thing that’s kind of cool too is like it was in your car is your own world, so you kind of create your own rules. If you want to sit there and just eat a bunch of junk food and maybe sneak a beer in, you know, and mess around. Yeah, that’s the whole point of it, but the other thing too about the drive-in in addition to it really being this sort of…and it’s also, one thing that a lot of people…we’ve been doing so many interviews and we talk about the drive in, but something that me and Adam Rifkin is…one thing we really never emphasize is it’s a real American experience.
TS: It’s pure America. Because of our rather special….you know, year round in California…the concept of a drive in is such like Mom, apple pie, and the drive in. Do you know what I mean?
TS: And the thing is in addition to it being a communal experience, I’m not like this old fart, but you know it’s amazing what technology with 20 or 30 years has done. Prior to the internet and the cloud and torrents and cable and video, I mean the only way to really see some of these old cult movies was at a revival at a drive in. What they would do, for instance, in 1977 THE INCREDIBLE MELTING MAN would come out, but then they would show it on a triple bill with like a bunch of Hammer films or THE CREEPING FLESH or THE CREEPING UNKNOWN, so what would happen is a new movie would come out and then they would show it with older movies. You would read about these movies in FAMOUS MONSTERS or FANGORIA, but there was no way to see them and if they did manage to show up on television at three in the morning, A you had to stay up at three in the morning, because there weren’t VCRs or cable, but they were interrupted with commercials and the shit, all of the good stuff, would be cut out.
BUG: (laughs) I remember as a kid I never got to go to any of the scary movies, but I would cut them out of the newspaper. I would cut all of the things like SQUIRM and things like that…
TS: THE DARK… You would cut like the posters and the ads out?
BUG: Yeah, I would cut out the ads and just kind of collect those. I don’t know what ever happened to those, but that was sort of my way of experiencing the movie just through the poster ads.
TS: And that’s a very interesting thing that you just said, because it was the ad that gave you the impression of the film and the ads were so fucking cool and that’s another thing I think we’ve lost. I mean, now…I’m so glad that Mark Ward at Image and everyone at Image stood firm with our decision to go with the artwork we went with. Too often you hear “You can’t do artwork like that. Consumers are going to think it’s animated or that it’s a really old movie” and it’s like “What the fuck?” That’s why I can’t stand how they put out old movies and they repackage them and it’s like “Where are all of these great posters from history?” Now it’s just like a photo of Freddy Kruger that was cut and pasted by some intern working at Warner Brothers. Did you see the art work for…they just put out NIGHTMARE 2 and 3 on Blu Ray and the art work is an abomination. It’s shit.
BUG: Yeah, that’s too bad. They were some great posters back then and I think I had all of those, too, when they were coming out. I used to go to video stores and just collect those things, it was great.
TS: And it’s been cool, because so many people are telling me now like with CHILLERAMA and I get all of those Facebook messages all day that people are going to like Best Buy and they are buying it just because of the poster, the artwork, you know?
BUG: Definitely. So it was a fight to get that animated cover art for this and the poster?
TS: It was interesting. I would say it came into question, because the thing is we have, and I want to state this, we have been very lucky from the beginning…we didn’t make this movie and hope to get a distributor, we were very blessed since we went into CHILLERAMA knowing that Image was going to release this and that Mark Ward…Mark Ward has been I mean, my God, it must have been ten years ago when I first tried to make 2001 MANIACS, the very first person I ever took a meeting with was Mark Ward. He was working at Anchor Bay and Mark at the time…this was like 2000, so it was twelve years ago. Mark knew at the time that a lot of these companies like Image and Anchor Bay, they were going to run out of catalog titles and they would have to start getting into bankrolling and creating their own product and he was the one telling everybody this and no one would listen to him and sure enough years later he funded HATCHET and so when he left Anchor Bay to go to Image he wanted CHILLERAMA to be the first thing that he did there that he brought to the company and he was not only sold on the movie, but he was sold on the fact that we were doing it old school, that we were going to go back to the old school type of promotion and art work, that we were going to take the movie on the road for four months and travel and do drive ins and midnight movies. So he didn’t just buy a movie, he bought the whole concept.
So he had some, I wouldn’t say resistance, but questioning at Image and questioning…I mean, this was unheard of and the people at Image, the marketing people there were getting feedback from Walmarts and K-Marts and whatever that the art work…that people were going to think it’s an animated Disney movie or some shit like that, but Mark stood firm and Image stood firm behind him and I remember we were at this meeting and literally one of the executives there said, “Look, if we are going to fucking go for it, let’s just go for it all the way. It can’t just be half crazy or half unique. If we are going to do it, let’s just fucking go for it.” And we did.
BUG: Yeah, it definitely is and I saw the film a couple of days ago and I talked with both Adams and Joe yesterday and I’m glad I’m able to talk with you. I almost wish I could talk with each of you individually, because I think that each of the films deserves their own attention here and I definitely want to talk about I WAS A TEENAGE WEREBEAR. Where did the idea initially come from?
TS: It’s funny. The thing that’s great about CHILLERAMA is it exists as a whole and it exists in separate parts. It’s kind of like when KISS did the solo albums back in the day. We all were KISS fans back in the day and KISS did something that no other band did. On one day they put out four solo albums, but the albums you could buy separately or you could buy them in a package of four and each one had the different member on the cover with the makeup and each one, when they were in KISS they were KISS, but they each had separate things musically that they wanted to explore that maybe as KISS it wouldn’t have been proper. On their own solo albums they were able to explore, like for instance, Peter Criss did more like a jazzy kind of album and Gene Simmons…so with us, especially coming off of DETROIT ROCK CITY…when Adam [Rifkin] and I were working on DETROIT ROCK CITY 12 years ago and we started realizing that we grew up and loved the same things, MAD MAGAZINE, FAMOUS MONSTERS…we also loved the anthology movie, but some times there are certain stories or certain ideas that just don’t merit a full length movie. I mean we’ve all seen full length movies where you maybe think to yourself “Gee, that might have made a nice episode of TWILIGHT ZONE or TALES FROM THE CRYPT, but it was just a little too padded for a full length film.”
We thought “What a great idea for an anthology film. Have it set at a drive in with four different mini-movies, four different directors like the KISS albums, and each one represents that director like something really personal that they may not get a chance to do otherwise.” And we said, “Wow, this is a great idea” and at the time it was going to be called “FAMOUS MONSTERS: THE MOVIE.” We thought that we would use that cold monstery logo and just like FAMOUS MONSTERS magazine, each issue would be like all of these different monsters. We thought “Well, we will have different monsters,” but we ended up actually getting Gene Simmons of KISS involved and we sold it to MTV and we were going to do it as a weekly series where you go to the drive in and each week there’s a different little movie. It never got further than the scripts or the meetings, because then they discovered that they could make tons of money on reality shows, so you know Ain’t It Cool actually wrote about it back in the day when we set it up at MTV and then it just got put on a shelf for ten years until we could get the rights back. Cut to two years ago: me and Rifkin are just talking about it. We were telling Joe and Adam…we would get together at The Rainbow Room and have these cool ass dinners and just talk about how much we love movies and this came up and Joe and Adam looked at us and they were like “What the fuck? Let’s do this together.” Me and Adam looked at each other and were like “Where have you been all of our lives?” It was like this big light came on.
Then it was just decided, so me and Rifkin had these giant posters already made. In fact, originally it was going to be four monster movies, so the first one that Adam Rifkin was going to do was THE WEREWOLF OF ALCATRAZ. I was going to do I WAS A TEENAGE VAMPIRE, because there have been teenage werewolf and Frankenstein, but never a vampire. It was always THE DIARY OF ANNE FRANKENSTEIN and then it was going to be ZOMBIE DRIVE IN and each one, we were going to start with the black and white 40’s or 30’s Universal WEREWOLF OF ALCATRAZ, and then we were going to do like the 50’s and 60’s with the teen horror movie with vampires, then we were going to go into the Hammer type of films with DIARY OF ANNE FRANKENSTEIN and then the 80’s zombie movies with ZOM-B-MOVIE.
So immediately Green was like “I’m Jewish, I’m doing ANNE FRANKENSTEIN!” (laughs) And then it was like “Well you’re gay, so you should do the gay one.” “What’s gay about teenage vampires?” They were like “Look at that poster; you’ll make it gay…” “Fuck you…” And Joe was like “Lloyd Kaufman…Troma! I’ve got to do the 80’s Troma-esque zombie one” and then Rifkin was like “I don’t know if I still feel like doing the werewolf one. I want to do a giant monster one. I want to do a giant sperm. I like that Woody Allen, ‘Everything you want to know about sex you have a giant tit running…’ I want to do a giant sperm.” So we all had our little assignments and it was like the KISS solo album; then we all went off and did our thing.
Now what happened was, growing up loving monsters and being an outsider, I had a double whammy because besides painting Frankenstein models or playing baseball, I kind of preferred the guy next door to the girl next door. (laughs) I kind of…everyone would be watching THE BLUE LAGOON and I’d be staring at Chris Atkins when everyone was talking about Brooke Shields and I was like “What the fuck is wrong with me?”
TS: I used to fantasize about Fonzie and Richie Cunningham and Starsky and Hutch (laughs), but I never did anything about it. I was closeted until my 20’s, so I guess when I finally got a chance to start expressing myself in horror movies like 20001 MANIACS and DRIFTWOOD and FIELD OF SCREAMS I’ve always had a sort of queer subtext whether it’s having as many good looking guys as good looking girls--and trust me, I never skimped on the naked ladies in my movies, I love them too. I figured “There’s something for everybody.” The MANIACS movie had good looking naked guys, good looking naked girls, and sheep if you’re into that, something for everybody. So everyone was saying…there wasn’t Adam Lambert or Lady Gaga or Chris Colfer. I mean, now we have cool gay people. Back then, fucking Paul Lynde or Charles Nelson Reilly or Rip…whatever, that guy throwing confetti on the GONG SHOW. I used to look at that and I used to say “If that’s what being gay means, I’m not gay. I’m not Charles Nelson Reilly or Paul Lynde or Liberace and all that shit.”
Now it’s like “Whoa, being gay is fucking cool cowboys in BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN,” but I used to see the subtext in things. I’d watch REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE and I’d be like “Come on, isn’t it really about Sal Mineo having a crush on James Dean?” There were so many of those things and then not only that, but I’d relate to the monsters, because the classic monsters…Frankenstein was denied love and acceptance by his own creator and isn’t that like begin gay and being told God hates you by Fred Phelps, you know? Pastor Phelps where you’re going to hell, or, you know, the Hunchback, the Phantom, King Kong, the Creature…they weren’t bad, they’re just trying to live their own life and somebody comes into their jungle or the Amazon or in the opera house and you’re told “You are ugly” and “We don’t like you” and “You’re not allowed to love anybody.” The next thing you know they’re a monster. I can relate to that and I thought, “These are great themes to deal with in a film that I may never get a chance to do again, so let’s embrace that.”
Then I thought at the time HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL happened to be out and I admit it, I went and saw it, HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL 3 at the movies, because you know whatever and I was just laughing, because it was the gayest thing ever. “Should he go play drama or should he play basketball?” He’s sitting in the locker room ripping his shirt off talking about he doesn’t know which team to play for? I was like “come on…” Then you find out--all of your favorite monsters? Yeah, right…James Whale, who did FRANKENSTEIN, he was gay. You know…yeah, you find out or you read in an interview that “Yes, the screenwriter…Sal Mineo was gay” and the writer of REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE and all of that stuff you thought you were the only one seeing it, it turned out that a lot of the people who made these films were gay and it was usually veiled as a way to express themselves in a society that wouldn’t let them express themselves directly.
So here we are about to do the film and all of a sudden I get a phone call from Joe Lynch and he’s at Disneyland with his kid and he’s like “Dude, the HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL parade float went by and I just got this thought. What if Zac Efron got horny and transformed into Ron Jeremy?”
TS: I was like “Oh my God.” He was like “Yeah, what if he turned into a leather daddy or a bear?” I go “Joe, how come you know so much about the gay subcultures with queens and bears?” He’s like “I watch movies and read books.” “Okay, alright…” And then he says “Then call it the were-bear.”
TS: And I was like “Joe, that’s fucking brilliant.” Then we thought of how funny it would be when they transform it’s not just putting on the makeup, but it’s a completely different actor playing the were-bear and he goes from wearing the James Dean jacket, but suddenly when they transform they transform and they’ve got the leather, the chains,” and we just thought that would be hilarious and then you know me and Rifkin started thinking “Well how can we…?” Suddenly the idea, as Rifkin and I were talking…we wanted to shoot it in a high school and it was so expensive to shoot in a high school and we were like “What do we do?” Then Rifkin was like “Wait a minute, what about shooting it on the beach?” I said, “Yeah, you know when I grew up in New Jersey I thought all of the kids in California went to school on the beach.” I always watched THE MONKEES and they were always hanging out on the beach, so let’s film on the beach. Let’s pay homage to the Roger Corman beach movies and Frankie and Annette and I mean I love GREASE and seeing these movies growing up and suddenly with everybody’s sort of input it became this werewolf beach blanket bingo on the beach musical. It was crazy.
BUG: And the songs that they sang and everything, did you have a part in writing the lyrics?
TS: For better or for worse I wrote them all. It’s so funny, because once everybody told me to sort of embrace my inner gay, I suddenly found out I could write show tunes.
TS: You know? But honestly I love music. I put myself through college writing for FANGORIA and writing the music news for MTV. I mean, my first big movie was with KISS, so music is a huge part of me and in fact my next project I’m working with Ray Manzarek of The Doors. I’m writing and directing a movie based on his novel THE POET IN EXILE, which imagines “What if Jim Morrison did not die and all of these years reaches out to explain where the fuck he’s been?”
TS: Yeah, so music is a huge part of me, but I can’t play music. I can’t write music, but it’s so engrained in me that I just started…Bill Condon, who did CHICAGO and DREAMGIRLS and is a friend of mine, he once told me that in musicals if you think about it when people sing it’s almost like a thought balloon like in a comic. They are expressing their thoughts in a soundtrack no one else there can hear, it’s only for the audience to hear their thoughts expressed, and I thought “Well that would be very helpful in a short film where I don’t have 90 minutes to do a lot of exposition and character development. I can use the songs to sort of speed up the story and speed up the relationship.”
BUG: It’s kind of like when everybody does a montage, you cut away when you want to get to the point and get past a bunch of stuff--you kind of do it in a musical montage in a lot of films.
TS: Exactly, and it’s framing and it’s cool and then meanwhile it’s just popular as hell between GLEE and there’s just all of this stuff. It’s a very popular medium right now and I thought “Well, this would be great” and then I just used GREASE as a template and I thought “Well, you start out with ‘Summer Loving’ and that was ‘Don’t Look Away’ and then you’ve got John Travolta lamenting and that’s Sandy, so that became…then you’ve got the boy and girl song, but in mine I’ll make it be the boy boy song ‘Love bit me on the ass”, and then at the end we’ve got the big finale “We Go Together” and that’s “Do the Werebear” and I just followed the template and I started…I wrote the songs as poem and then I would just sit in my room and start thinking of Deon and Del Shannon, the Shirelles, and all of these great 50’s and 60’s songs I loved and I would come up with these melodies in my head and I would hum them into a tape recorder and then I gave the tape recording to my composer, Patrick Copeland, who composed the score and he orchestrated this and it’s cool. The soundtrack…they tell me they hate me, because they can’t get some of these silly songs out of their head, and you know, so the soundtrack is actually coming out in December.
BUG: That will be great. With the whole werewolf mythos it does seem to fit really, really well with what you are saying about a transformation, about fighting urges and things like that. That seems to be really common in the werewolf mythology, so it seems to fit the story perfectly almost.
TS: It really did, and then again on the surface a werebear and even all of the stories in CHILLERAMA, it’s subversive and we are pushing the envelope and we are in your face and just like Monty Python, but you know Monty Python and LIFE OF BRIAN, they are being subversive, but they are also making some pretty interesting comments on religion and that’s what I tried to do with MANIACS, you know? Make comments about racism and stereotypes and in WEREBEAR I really wanted to say something about this self realization, being true to yourself, discovering who you are and anti-bullying and acceptance and also it’s so funny, because it’s like you’ve got the two werebears, you’ve got Talon and you’ve got Ricky and the thing is, and we always kid, but it was like the Malcolm X and the Martin Luther King werebear. Talon is a Malcolm X. He’s so pissed that he’s been ignored and ostracized that he could just massacre all the people who were haters and meanwhile you’ve got Ricky saying “No, we need to all get together.” So it’s there and it’s funny, because WEREBEARS was kind of done before some of the other CHILLERAMA episodes, so everybody agreed to let me take the film out on its own to a lot of the gay film festivals for four months. Me and Sean Lockhart toured with this film and it was interesting, because we got a lot of press and even though something with the title of “TEENAGE WEREBEARS” is a silly thing, it’s there in the movie: “Werebears need love too” and “Is the fight with the beast in you?” Hopefully there’s something that people take away with it more than just dancing gay werewolves.
BUG: This is no knock against any of the other ones, because they were all really fun, but yours seems to be the one that could be expanded into a full film. THE DIARY OF ANNE FRANKENSTEIN I loved, but it works as a short film, as does WADZILLA and the whole wrap around of ZOM-B-MOVIE.
TS: Yeah, well thank you, and each one is what it is, yes, and I know there were times when the guys…mine was actually even longer and I know in my mind I had structured it like a feature film and maybe that was wrong. Adam Green’s is like the best SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE skit you have ever seen, you know what I mean?
TS: And it’s perfect and maybe I was a little too ambitious, but it did work and interestingly enough I’ve been approached and we are going to do this, but we’ve been asked to expand it into a full length stage musical like LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS or TOXIC AVENGER: THE MUSICAL or REANIMATOR: THE MUSICAL and we are actually going to do it.
BUG: That’s fantastic. That sounds great. I would love to see that. Well, you know, I know you don’t have a lot of time, but I really did thoroughly enjoy the entire CHILLERAMA experience. I’m going to be reviewing it…if I’m able to transcribe this interview and transcribe the ones I did yesterday before the end of the week I’ll do that. If not, I’m just going to cover the movie this week and then I’ll do the interviews next week, but yeah…
TS: Yeah, I mean there’s no reason not to spread it out. One thing I wanted to throw out there was, like I said, the WEREBEAR soundtrack is coming out like right before Christmas. Psycho Charger, which is this really cool rockabilly band, they did this kickass song called “Chillerama” which is briefly in the end credits, but it’s really cool. It has sound bytes of all of the different movies and I did this really cool music video with them that we are going to put out in December, because we didn’t want to overshadow this release, so we were looking for an outlet to give an exclusive premiere to.
BUG: CHILLERAMA seems like it’s just such a fun experience and I love that this was put together as a labor of love for all of you guys and it’s kind of a grass roots campaign of you guys touring it around and everything. You just don’t see that kind of commitment from directors of you guys’ caliber these days and it’s great to see it. You guys should be congratulated for it and really recognized for it.
TS: Thank you man, that really means a lot coming from someone at Ain’t It Cool like yourself. It really means a lot. To be honest with you, none of us got paid for this. We all did this…we hope it goes well and we get enough money to make another one, but we really did this for the love of it and because it was important to us and quite frankly we wanted to see this movie and no one else is making it, so we did.
BUG: Great--and yeah, do you think that you would be a part of a sequel or would you be a producer of that? I talked with the other guys…
TS: Oh absolutely. Yeah, we envision CHILLERAMA as an ongoing thing and the idea would be that maybe some of us come back, but we also want to include other directors and we would love to see CHILLERAMA not to be a movie, but like almost like its own venue where every year there’s a CHILLERAMA with four new mini movies and we just keep it going and every year we tour with it like Lollapalooza. We’ve toured hundreds of places and everybody wants us and we actually came out a little late in the season where a lot of the drive ins were closing, because of the weather, so next time we would probably start a little earlier so we could do a whole summer tour, but we see this as a traveling drive in that we do every year or every two years and really turn it into something and it’s our way of sort of taking a stand against corporate horror, studio corporate soulless product, and keeping the fun of genre movies alive that gets lost in the shuffle. Seriously, the support of CHILLERAMA is greatly appreciated by people such as yourself and by the fans that support it. I mean for god’s sake it’s 15 freaking bucks on Amazon. It’s an amazing deal and it’s like “Come on, don’t download it illegally. Don’t torrent it, it’s two packs of cigarettes or beer.” It’s like “If you don’t support CHILLERAMA, you’re going to condemn yourself to a future where the only horror is Michael Bay remakes of 80’s films. If that’s the kind of future you want, go ahead and don’t support CHILLERAMA.” (laughs)
It’s frustrating to me and again I just have to say this, it’s frustrating to me that a movie like CHILLERAMA and I can say this, because I’m only one fourth of this, but it’s frustrating to me that a movie like CHILLERAMA that is so, for better or for worse, there’s nothing else out there like it, it is so original. It is so pushing…it is so unique and creative and we had to like go out there and pound the pavement and literally show it at theater by theater and fan by fan and hope that maybe we’d sell a hundred thousand, so we could make a sequel and then…
BUG: Definitely. I agree totally. Well you know what, thank you so much. I appreciate your time for the interview.
TS: Thanks so much, Mark. Take care.
BUG: CHILLERAMA, which includes the segment I WAS A TEENAGE WEREBEAR is available on DVD & BluRay now!
Ambush Bug is Mark L. Miller, original @$$Hole / wordslinger / reviewer / co-editor of AICN Comics for over nine years. Mark is also a regular writer for FAMOUS MONSTERS OF FILMLAND and will be releasing FAMOUS MONSTERS first ever comic book miniseries LUNA in October (co-written by Martin Fisher with art by Tim Rees) You can pre-order it here! Support a Bug by checking out his comics (click on the covers to purchase)!
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