When you think of great Chicago actors, you can't help but conjure up the silver hair and classic mustache of the former Chicago cop and one of the greatest users of the word "Fuck," Mr. Dennis Farina, who I've been a fan of since he appeared as the star of the Michael Mann-produced TV series "Crime Story" in the mid-1980s.
But Farina has made as much of name for himself for playing mobsters and other tough guys as he has for playing officers of the law. From working opposite Chuck Norris in CODE OF SILENCE to playing the original Jack Crawford (later played by Scott Glenn in SILENCE OF THE LAMBS and Harvey Keitel in RED DRAGON) in Mann's MANHUNTER, Farrina went on to bring us memorable roles in MIDNIGHT RUN, GET SHORTY, MEN OF RESPECT, STRIKING DISTANCE, OUT OF SIGHT, SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, REINDEER GAMES, SNATCH, YOU KILL ME, and a couple years as Detective Joe Fontana on "Law & Order."
I was lucky enough to talk to Farina when he was in town during the Chicago International Film Festival to promote the Opening Night film THE LAST RITES OF JOE MAY, featuring a rare staring appearance from Farnia in a film produced by the Steppenwolf Films, an offshoot of the Steppenwolf Theater Company, where Farina got some of his earliest acting work. He'll next appear as Gus Demitriou in the HBO series "Luck," produced by Michael Mann (who directed the pilot), starring Dustin Hoffman and Nick Nolte. I cannot fucking wait. Please enjoy my chat with the great Dennis Farina…
Dennis Farina: Hi, Steve.
Capone: How are you, sir?
DF: You were just talking to Gary?
Capone: Yes. I love talking to Chicago theater people. In fact, I grew up around D.C., and when I was in high school, the very first professional theater I ever was when Steppenwolf came to the Kennedy Center and did STREAMERS, and you were in that, right?
DF: Yeah, STREAMERS, right.
Capone: I had the chance to talk to Gary Sinise about it and [the play's director] Terry Kinney as well. Man, that’s a scary play to see right out of the gate.
DF: Yeah, that was a lot of fun. That was a lot of fun to do.
Capone: Spitting blood at the audience. And actually I think there's a photo of you in that play at Steppenwolf on their big wall of photos, and it reminded me. Steppenwolf had this reputation for doing edgier works, and I think STREAMERS would count. Do you remember a specific theater thing that you did where you said, “Wow, I have never done anything like this as an actor.”
DF: Well I never did anything. [laughs]
Capone: You were still pretty new to acting weren’t you?
DF: Oh yeah, the first play I ever did was A PRAYER FOR MY DAUGHTER, with Terry Kinney, Jeff Perry and John Mahoney; John Malkovich directed it.
Capone: Wow, so many of the original ensemble members.
DF: Yeah, so that was a big thrill for me, and they've always been kind to me. I had know idea what I was getting into.
Capone: It was only like a year or two after that that I came here to Northwestern for college, and my friends and I were obsessed with "Crime Story"; we watched that show our freshman year of college, loved that show. That couldn’t have been more than a couple of years later after STREAMERS, right?
DF: A few years later. Yeah, I’m not sure. You know I’m getting old now, so all of my timelines are all mixed up. "Crime Story" was in 1986 or 1987 I believe.
Capone: Yeah, that’s when I started college.
DF: And we did that here. We shot part of it here, and then went to Las Vegas for the last one.
Capone: We were bummed when it moved to Vegas, I’ve got to say.
DF: So was I. I wanted to stay here longer. I always thought we could, you know we could drag that story out a little bit longer, but they were determined to go to Las Vegas with it, and I voted against it, but was outvoted.
[Both Laugh]
Capone: Just back in July, I ran into Steven Lang at Comic-Con, and I couldn’t help but bring it up, because that’s probably the first thing I ever saw him in.
DF: Yeah, he’s a good guy, Steven. He’s doing this thing in Australia now…
Capone: "Terra Nova" that just started. And you had known Michael Mann before "Crime Story" a little. You had worked with him before, right?
DF: Yeah.
Capone: Can you talk a little bit about your relationship with him?
DF: I met Michael Mann doing THIEF. He was in Chicago and he asked us to do a little part in a movie, but I didn’t know what that would lead to.
Capone: Were you still a police officer then?
DF: Yeah. I didn’t think anything of it, we just did it, and that was that.
Capone: Then you were in MANHUNTER, right?
DF: Yeah. We did MANHUNTER together. We did a miniseries together. I did "Miami Vice" for him.
Capone: I did see you a couple of years back at the PUBLIC ENEMIES premiere. I was there for that and I saw you in the audience.
DF: Yeah.
Capone: But I know you weren’t in that.
DF: I wasn’t in that, but I thought there was something else we did and now we are doing "Luck" together.
Capone: I was going to say, that looks incredible, and you have real directors directing these episodes, with Michael doing the pilot.
DF: Michael doing the pilot, Allen Coulter we had, Phillip Noyce…
Capone: That’s an impressive lineup.
DF: These guys come in, and I’m always kind of fascinated anyway,
Capone: Who do you play in that?
DF: I play Dustin Hoffman’s right-hand man, and it’s an in-depth story about race tracks and about what’s happening to race tracks nowadays. They are, like everything else, kind of fading.
Capone: Is it like a behind-the-scenes thing, or is it just the people who go there to play the ponies?
DF: Oh no, you get to know jockeys and how they train and management, all of the agents, all of this stuff that goes on behind the scenes, which is very interesting to me. The only thing I knew about horses was losing on them, so I didn’t know anything about it, but it was really good, really fascinating.
Capone: I do want to talk about JOE MAY a little bit. When I was watching it, it was really interesting to see you just play humble, because I’m so used to you being very in your face with people, and there are a couple of scenes in here, one with Gary Cole, that last scene that you have with him where he just stomps on your basically, and then the one with your son where you are just sitting there and you just endure this verbal abuse. Is that tough to play that kind of humbled person?
DF: I can tell you this. Those questions are a little hard for me to answer always, but I can tell you this, Joe Maggio our director, has lived with this script for a long time, and it’s based a little bit on one of his grandfathers. So Joe knew the script so well that any question that you might have or any idea that you might have or move that you might make, I would go to him and I would say, “Well what about this Joe?” and he would say “No, no he doesn’t do that. He’s not that guy.” Because the tendency, I keep saying this, is you see that little girl and you want to hug her. Jamie’s [Allman] character says, “Will you get me a hug?” and he says “No.”
Capone: Those are great scenes with the girl.
DF: Yeah, and I kept saying, “Joe, why is this?” He says, “Because that’s not Joe May. Joe May is in trouble, and he doesn’t want to complicate his life anymore than it is right now. He might do it six months later if he makes a big score and he’s got the money and he’s spreading it around, he might be a different guy. But right now he’s in the fight of his life.” I mean everybody thinks he’s dead after the poor guy is gone in the hospital for two weeks, you know?
[Both Laugh]
Capone: Joe May feels like he’s similar to some characters that you 've played before, but only if they took a wrong turn or if they never quite…
DF: …made it.
Capone: Right, exactly.
DF: It's funny, I was just talking to someone, and I said, “If Joe May were a little sharper, he could be somebody that was in MIDNIGHT RUN or somebody in GET SHORTY. He may have made that jump.” He didn’t handle his career advancement very well.
Capone: Exactly. I read somewhere that you don’t watch your own movies usually. Why is that?
DF: Yeah, well I’ll tell you the truth. You know, I see them at dubbing sessions and I did watch one and I looked and I said, “My God, why did I do that? Holy Christ do I look horrible; I look fat.” I just second guess myself to death and I’m too old to start doing all of that stuff now, I don’t want anymore complications in my life. So I figured for me it’s better, it’s more comfortable for me to do it while I’m doing it, do the best I can, and let other people decide if it’s good or not.
Capone: You always struck me as someone who doesn’t get lost in "the process" of acting; you come in and you do it. Are you big on research? Do you need to be deep in the character’s head to play a part?
DF: No, I never did that. I read the script. For me, I’ve developed a certain way of reading the script that suits what I would like to do, and I believe that there’s really room for only one director on the set, because everybody else is chirping in your ear. But I can tell you, the good directors--if you have an idea or a thought or you might want to say something a little different or say something that comes more trippingly out of your mouth than what’s written--will always tell you to go ahead and do it, and so far that’s worked for me. I don’t judge other people on how they work or how they get to where they have to get to, that’s certainly their business.
Capone: You mentioned MIDNIGHT RUN, so you worked with Robert De Niro who is one of the kings of method acting. Do you watch him or some of the other people you've work? Are you still in a place where you are learning things about acting from other actors?
DF: Well, actually yeah. Listen, every time I go to a set, I’m always fascinated by it, because I think it’s just a really fascinating business and I don’t know anything about technology, but what they do nowadays with these cameras and the lighting and everything is just incredible. When you are with someone like Dustin Hoffman 12 or 14 hours a day and you look at what he does or how he does it or something, you just soak that stuff up. Or if you are doing a scene with a guy like Gene Hackman, it’s like “Wow, this guys is a master.” I think you should be open to all of that stuff. I don’t know if “learning” is the right word.
Capone: But you're smart enough to still be impressed with them.
DF: Oh sure, are you kidding me? Nowadays working with Dustin, first of all he’s a wonderful guy and he’s a lovely family man , but you sit around and you talk to him, and it’s very interesting stuff. There's so much to learn.
Capone: Yeah, you mentioned directors being are open to your ideas, and you’ve worked with Steven Soderbergh, and I’ve heard he’s very much a hands-off like director and that he trusts his actors to do the work and very open to that sort of thing. Is he a good example of one of those directors?
DF: Yeah, he’s an example of that, and believe it or not, Michael Mann is. You can go up to Michael, and if you can tell him, “Michael you know what? I don’t think this guy would do this, or this guy should be that way.” If you can defend that, because what he’s done, what he has written is well thought out. This is a guy that’s not a dilettante; this is a guy who’s done it all.
He had told me something one time. He said when we were doing "Crime Story," “There’s a going to come a point when no one will know this character better than you. Now if someone comes up to you and asks you to do something that you don’t think this character should do, you should let them know that and argue that point and try to make that point.” He says, “I don’t care who it is.” I says, “Well what if it’s you?” and he says “Well, I might be the exception.” [Laughs] But he did tell me that. He says “At a certain point, no one is going to know the character better than you.” So I’ve kind of always thought that.
Capone: That’s good advice to carry with you as an actor. Back to OUT OF SIGHT and GET SHORTY, I've always thought that you play the characters in those Elmore Leonard stories like someone who's a fan.
DF: I’m a big fan from way back. I remember reading GET SHORTY and I was saying, “Boy is this such a good book. I hope somebody makes a movie out of it.” I don’t know what it was, like I said my timelines are all blurred now, but it seems to me very shortly thereafter, I was asked to go to a table reading and very shortly thereafter we were doing the movie. I remember reading OUT OF SIGHT. But I am an Elmore Leonard fan, so I’ve read all of his books. I wish I could do more, but I’m also a big Jimmy Frey fan with A MILLION LITTLE PIECES and MY FRIENDS LEONARD, which is a great book.
Capone: You were also in Seven Spielberg's SAVING PRIVATE RYAN. It’s a small part, but you’re working with Spielberg, so you probably couldn't help but be a little thrilled by that.
DF: Yeah, I got a call and they said… It was the only script I ever read that from page one you knew it was going to be something; it was like reading a novel. A bunch of guys had little parts in it, cameos and stuff, and it was just a thrill. I remember going to Ireland to film our part, and there was all of this stuff with boats and guns and this and that, and there’s this guy sitting there just in control of everything, very calm and collected and just said “Action” and let the people go to work.
Capone: Who were some of your favorite actors when you were growing up and first discovering movies?
DF: Richard Conte, James Cagney, Humphrey Bogart, I loved all of those guys.
Capone: So guys that played either police or gangsters.
DF: [laughs] Yeah, and I always liked Robert Taylor and I liked Dick Powell. I thought Dick Powell was a very good actor.
Capone: Very underrated, I think.
DF: Yeah, but I loved all of those guys. Spencer Tracy I always loved. I mean this is before I knew anything, but we would go to a movie just because James Cagney or Richard Conte was in it. If any of those guys were the star, we would go to the movie.
Capone: Did that make you want to become an actor?
DF: No, not at all. No, we just went because it was cheap entertainment. It was like five or ten cents to get in a movie, and for another five or ten cents you got popcorn, and you saw two movies and four cartoons and five serials. It was a day of entertainment. But I liked all of those guys. Yeah, I liked them all, guys like Barton MacLane, I just thought they were great.
Capone: With JOE MAY, you're working with a new director and you do that occasionally. When you're looking at material or scripts from directors that don’t have a lot of experience, what do you need from them to know that you are safe in their untested hands?
DF: Joe is a little bit more experienced than a lot of people give him credit for, but I look for their conviction in what they are doing. If they believe what they are doing is there, if they feel really strong about it…because if they don’t, nobody is, you know? You’re not going to get some young kid out of film school, and if he’s wishy washy about something that somebody is going to give him a couple of million dollars to make a movie, they’re not going to do it. But if he is convinced that what he can do is good and that he’s open to stuff or if you have meaningful discussions with him and he’s open to stuff, I think that’s great. I think that’s what they should do.
Capone: All right Dennis, thank you. It was really great to meet you.
