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A Jedi Knight? Jeez, The Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day is out of it for a little while and everyone gets delusions of grandeur!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with today’s Behind the Scenes Pic!
I must admit this photo threw me for a loop. I knew it featured matte artist Michael Pangrazio and was from a Star Wars film, but Pangrazio joined ILM for The Empire Strikes Back. I thought for sure that matte painting he’s working on was from Star Wars, with the Falcon in the Death Star hanger bay.
Then I stopped being a dumbass and took a closer look. That’s from Return of the Jedi and the Falcon is parked in a Rebel ship with the Imperial Shuttle being the one Han, Chewie, Luke and Leia use to get to Endor.
The art of painting on glass is something that humbles me. It truly does. I’ve had the pleasure of examining many matte paintings up close at ILM (including Endor, Die Hard 2 and Hook mattes) as well as a few others, including one from Wizard of Oz that literally took my breath away it was so detailed and beautiful.
Digital mattes are fine, I accept they are the evolution of technology, but I think there’s a different kind of artistry that goes into the hand-painted mattes and one that I’m sad about going the way of the Dodo.
Here’s the image of Mr. Michael Pangrazio making a real piece of art. That exists somewhere. Wonder who has it? Pangrazio? Lucas? A rich Star Wars collector? If you know, drop me a line. I’d love to know it’s still safe and sound.
If you have a behind the scenes shot you’d like to submit to this column, you can email me at quint@aintitcool.com.
Tomorrow’s behind the scenes pic features a towering achievement in model work!
-Eric Vespe
”Quint”
quint@aintitcool.com
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Click here to visit the complete compilation of previous Behind the Scenes images, Page One
Click here to visit the complete compilation of previous Behind the Scenes images, Page Two
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my first one
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Just a helluva gorgeous piece of artwork right there!
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Nov 09, 2011 11:07:04 PM CST
I always thought that was the "worst" matte in the trilogy
by ben_richards_bomb_collar
Not saying it is bad by any means, but I remember it was the only one that ever jumped out at me while I was watching the movie and made me say "that's a painting" to myself.
Also, c'mon. Does every one of these things have to take a shot at digital effects? Now a digital painting isn't real art? -
These are the types of behind the scenes pictures I like. People in the act of making movies behind the scenes. Not just a bunch of thespian farts from Old Hollywood sitting around tuggin' on each others pudi.
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There, I've said it.
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If I'm not mistaken, Michael Pangrazio also did the matte painting of the warehouse at the closing of "Raiders." What a talented dude, and not just in rocking flannel.
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Young people must not know the horrible truth of how movies were made before the era of CGI!
THINK OF THE CHILDREN! -
It really is a dying art.
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Seriously?
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Miniatures and scale models have always been my favorite when it comes to behind-the-scenes work. Here's a good "Star Wars" one: http://tinyurl.com/6m9auor.
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Nov 09, 2011 11:19:05 PM CST
Great painting, though the wings on the Imperial shuttle are actually quite deformed.
by justmyluck
Chris Evans' matte work on ROTJ was pretty flawless.
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Nov 09, 2011 11:28:25 PM CST
I love matte paintings, models' miniatures, practical effects, etc...
by lv_426
It is too bad that the old skills are pretty much gone, or will be soon. Not that digital is bad, but is it a good idea to never ever use the old methods from time to time, if it is right for certain new films?
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Nov 09, 2011 11:32:33 PM CST
I also love Jedi, and when I was younger I liked it the most of all three in the OT
by lv_426
Nowadays I don't think one is better than the other, although Empire has the least amount of intrusive changes added by Lucas over the years. So it gets extra credit points for that alone.
I never did understand why Jedi got so much hate though. -
Nov 09, 2011 11:33:11 PM CST
I used to own this exact matte painting. But then I accidentally dropped it and it shattered.
by detinue
Just messing with you, Quint!
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When I was a kid Jedi was by far my favorite, all because of the final confrontation between Luke, Vader, and the Emperor. There was so much going on there, it's like nothing else in cinema. Plus, as a youngster Ewoks didn't bother me. They still don't, really (except when they blink).
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It should be a rule of thumb, that during the pre-pro phase of a film, concept art has to be mocked up in digital mattes and hand-painted mattes. Whichever looks more realistic wins, and I bet you it'll be the ones done by hand.
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The quote left me grinning, as did the pic.
Please, someone get a Star Wars trilogy going where Lucas is only the producer and not the writer or director. The man has some cool, wild and out there ideas. But he really needs other people to make that stuff into a movie. -
Nov 10, 2011 12:19:34 AM CST
When I was a kid I saw George Lucas at Space Camp
by julieandrewsslutswool
where he was rooting around aimlessly "looking for ideas". Suddenly, when no one was looking, he bent down and whispered into my ear, "it's short and fat".
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and they go way over board on the sound.
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Yep, seriously.
I was 10 when I saw Jedi, in the theatres, opening weekend (my parents weren't cool enough to let me skip school to see it on the Wednesday, when it opened). I remember it so well. One of my all-time favorite movie going moments was when the whole crowd erupted into cheers when Vader came down the shuttle ramp.
The movie was pure magic to me. All of it. And I even thought the ewoks were cool (although, even then, I cringed at the wookie-tarzan call). The special effects were unbelieveable, like nothing ever before. All the monsters, all the spaceships, more over the top than even Empire.
Now, I know, Empire is a more emotionally and thematically complex and layered movie. However, to that ten year old, Empire was more of a bummer (not to say I didn't LOVE it, even then, but...). Good guys lost, Han gets frozen, Luke abandons his training, etc; etc; Just not as much fun. Now I see it as the richest of the original trilogy, no doubt.
But, when it comes to Star Wars, I always defer to my inner 10 year old. I think anybody who tries to do anything else is actually being quite foolish. In recent years, Empire is lauded as being the best, over and over and over, and Jedi dismissed as the weak one. I argue a movie series about fanciful spaceships, funky robots, giant walking carpets, monsters, giant slimy muppets, and gold bikinis should always be judged by the mindset of an awe struck 10 year old. -
The guys, and ladies, that did the matte paintings were absolutely astounding. What I'd read about Pangrazio was that he would use dots and splotches of color. If you got really close to the paintings, it didn't look all that impressive, but when you stood where the camera was, the realism and the effect was exactly right.
I admired these guys growing up and always regretted that I lacked the talent to do what they did. Working for ILM must have been an absolutely amazing experience at the time. -
Nov 10, 2011 12:30:40 AM CST
And no, I don't believe digital mattes are artistically equal.
by alienfanatic
There are just too many shortcuts. While some artists of today are quite probably Pangrazio's equal, I bet there are a lot more that can get by with the assistance of photoshop and other digital tools that would NEVER have cut it back when it was painting on glass.
So yes, we have an explosion of FX houses able to do much the same thing as one another, but none (to my mind) will ever match the crews of the 70's and 80's who worked at ILM, alongside the Trumbulls, the guys that designed the lightcycles for Tron using CRAY computers, Richard Edlund (I'm thinking of his post-ILM career, including the go-motion work on Dragonheart), PHil Tippett, and the list goes on and on and on.
I bet most folks couldn't name a single, modern FX technician outside of perhaps a few character designers. -
I understand everyone who loves Empire. It's amazing. The "flack" that Return gets is probably a bit much. I never liked that Darth was sort of soft at the end but it made sense for the story and when I was a child that whole fight scene that involved three different fight scenes going on at the same time including the one we had all been waiting for was just mind blowing. With that said, the first movie is the best. It was nothing like any of us had seen before.
I would also like to state that I was 8 years old when seeing Return and my friends St. Bernard licked the back of my pants right before I went to see it so I had to sit through the entire movie in dog spit but I didn't mind because I was doing so while I was watching Gamoreon Guards eaten by Rancor monsters, Carry Fischer looking like she never would again, the completion of Luke's training in A BLACK SUIT, etc., etc., etc. It was awesome. -
True art.
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I've seen good and bad of both. After watching the original trilogy on blu-ray and having seen the original movies enough time to know where the changes were made, there were places where the stuff they did originally looked bad, lots of places where the 1997 stuff looked bad, and places where the 2004 stuff looked bad. I don't think one medium is better than they others, just the level of attention to detail and skill the artist brings to the project.
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A piece of art. I gotta tell you that it's in MY collection.
Not. -
Quint, I like most everything you do, but this damn fawning over Matte Paintings in particular is getting outta hand. There's a line between reverence for the past, and being blinded to the present extension of the artform.
Want to see AMAZING matte paintings? Videogame skyboxes. Where a believable extension of geometry is still required for the sake of resources. Specifically, the Halo and Uncharted series.
And certainly, as flat background elements to current composite effects. Where a painting wrapped around a mesh extends beyond the artist/processing heavy task of the primary geometry.
I guess I hate that you're spreading a false interpretation of 'digital' under the guise of appreciating history. Instead, you could point to both and appreciate how one flows to the other. -
Nov 10, 2011 2:19:15 AM CST
Most old school mattes were simply scraped off the glass
by judge dredds dirty undies
Yeah I know, horrific.
Also, alienfanatic, I presume you mean Dragonslayer not Dragonheart and it was actually ILM's first external contract. I don't think Edlund had anything to do with that unless he came back to ILM for a bit, but I think he was busy founding his own company. -
Or, I just don't get it.
Immediately to the right of the falcon's cockpit. Is where the Matte ends, and the live plate goes. But when you watch the scene in Jedi, the live action rebels, disappear under the Matte. It's really annoying, it was easily visible on crappy VHS, and they still haven't fixed it. Or......Is the matte part supposed to be a raised area, and the rebels are walking under it. -
That or just plain destroyed. That's what I've been heard, read and been told. A great many of them no longer exist and didn't shortly after they were shot.
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I just think its interesting how many different parts and pieces can go into creating a film. Also, pretty crazy how many people don't have a damn clue what a matte painting is.
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Not that I don't appreciate digital, which can often look more realistic. Thing is there is just a sort of dreamlike magic to the old painted on glass matte paintings. It would be great to see some of that style in films again.
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......is tomorrows pic. Probably the model of The Glass Tower. You really cannot beat old school special effects.
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Nov 10, 2011 3:30:00 AM CST
Dr Strangerlove thinks it would be nice to be this talented, and patient. The doctor thinks Kirstin Stewart may be a matt painting too.
by drstrangerlove
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Matte painting is a time-honoured tradition which sadly has become largely obsolete with the advent of CGI. Those matte painters were true masters of their craft.
As for where that painting is now, I believe most of the SW Trilogy matte paintings are stored in the Lucasfilm Archives. -
Nov 10, 2011 5:13:29 AM CST
The "Take Her! I want you to have her" scene between Lando and Han and the Falcon
by seansarto
Stood out to me when I was 13 as being a horrendous blue screen/matte painting for the 3RD Star Wars fiml...I thought this LOOKS WORSE than the 2 films before it..and they had all that money and new technology to work with....I remember seeing Lando's shadow and thinking..."That is terrible blending" and it was such basic blocking...A very dull two-shot....
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It's painfully obvious where the painting ends. Something to do with the lighting on the floor in the live-action shot. Plus, isn't the camera panning in this shot?
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Nov 10, 2011 5:28:34 AM CST
Looks like shit.Lucas should replace it with a superior CGI model.
by killik
made by ILM's latest rendering software.YEAH.maybe he will do it in the next super duper special 50th anniversary Bluray limited collection.
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Pangrazio is fab as are his paintings but the shots and the dodgy integration of the elements....not so much. Completely agree with Quint about the artistic quality of painting on glass. That said, no one is perfect. For example...Endor Radar Dish and Platform......I would welcome any evidence that Pangrazio did not paint that....that would lessen the impact of the blow, although, again, the problem with it is probably less the painting than it is the final shot.
Also, I agree that it is wonderful that this actually exists somewhere (or at least, did for a time) in a very tangible way. -
agreed - not only that but, some of the shots of Lando are reversed, so his insignia for example is on the wrong side for some shots.
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Nov 10, 2011 6:56:58 AM CST
The painitng's bad ass but I don't see why they couldn't just use miniature models of the ships to get the shot
by alienindisguise
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weren't these infamous for cracking under studio lights
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Thought it was done with mini's. Crap.
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What you believe about the artistry of digital vs. traditional matte painters is just wrong.
I was trained on the traditional side of illustration, and ported over those skills to the digital domain.
Simply because I use photoshop doesn't make my work any "less artistic".
What Photoshop and other painting programs do for the artist is to simplify the process, negate a LOT of the hassels that came with the traditional mediums (depending on what you used).
To call one "more artistic" is bullshit because the training IS STILL THERE. I know plenty of people who are adept at Photoshop, yet couldn't paint within it to save their fucking lives, nor understand composition and framing, use of light, etc. etc.
Always love seeing the Matte Paintings from the SW series, so beautifully done.
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God why do I waste my life reading this illiterate garbage.
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Nov 10, 2011 8:03:30 AM CST
When talking of matte painting, lets not forget to mention Albert Whitlock.
by openthepodbaydoorshal
His work with Hitchcock and Brooks, and I'll always love the shot in The Thing when the saucer is discovered and the shadow from the Arctic sun moves across the hatch. Beautiful work. Also the end of High Anxiety which is an hommage and spoof of matte work simultaneously.
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Nov 10, 2011 8:08:13 AM CST
"I bet most folks couldn't name a single, modern FX technician outside of perhaps a few character designers."
by bah
And most folks don't know who the people you listed are, either.
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I can't believe this was a painting....I'm blown away. Amazing pic.
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Nov 10, 2011 8:37:33 AM CST
I agree with SEANSARTO -the scene where Han is telling Lando to take the Falcon --
by professor_monster
is the worst matt shot in the entire series. I remember when I was 13 and first saw it I thought they just didn't have enough money rebuild the full scale Flacon -- but the Sandstorm scene shows they rebuilt it, so why not use it here.
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Yep it was awful, but some of it could probably be attributed to Richard Marquand and the DP since much of the lighting in general for Jedi is a huge step down from Empire.
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Lighting took a huge dip from Empire, a huge dip.
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Nov 10, 2011 9:20:48 AM CST
Re:bad comp work...it's like the one scene in Aliens
by openthepodbaydoorshal
when Ripley is on the scaffolding of the exploding processing plant with Newt and the flamethrower. It's such a "two dimensional" process shot, that it takes me out of the movie for just a second or two.
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Nov 10, 2011 9:45:19 AM CST
"The art of painting on glass is something that humbles me. It truly does."
by seymourscagnettisbruisedego
Oh for fuck's sake!
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Well said about Jedi. As an adult, I prefer Empire, but as a kid - you are right, there was something magical about Jedi. I was 11 when Jedi came out and it is the only one I can really remember anticipating with my friends - it's the only one I can actually remember sitting in the theater to see.
And Seansarto - the scene with Han and Lando truly was one of the worst scenes in Jedi - not just because the Matte was bad behind them (also noticeable to my 11 year old eyes), but also because that scene was so horribly acted. The only scene worse was when Leia tells Han that Luke is her brother. -
Nov 10, 2011 10:03:54 AM CST
The outerspace beauty shots are my favourite part of starwars. I was so let down when they were left out of the prequels
by skiff
the falcon/starships/spacestations and dogfights were what I kept going back to the theatre to see over and over again not jedi standing around. ROTS kinda got back to that point but the cool space battle was cut so fast you it was hard to focus on anything. The best parts were seen through the windows on the starship.
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The reason the wings, indeed the whole painting seems deformed is because the artist had to paint it "squeezed". It would then be unsqueezed by the lens of the camera. I remember reading this in an old Cinefex. Cool, eh?
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There is a great documentary/feature on Al Whitlock on YouTube. He talks about working with Hitchcock and the jokes that Hitch played on him. One of my favorite matte paintings Whitlock did was the huge "THE END" for Mel Brooks' History of The World. On that one, the sun moves across the huge mountain/letters thing. It's fantastic.
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although the other one used for the close ups of Han and Lando in the same scene are even worse. Way too dark but the actors are lit just fine.
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Nov 10, 2011 10:47:09 AM CST
As Master Indy once cried "That belongs in a museum!!!"
by billyeveryteen
Quint is right to gush.
And I do. -
the man's got a nice ass
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after stealing it from its country of origin..
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They used to scrape the paint off the glass with a razor to use the glass again for another matte painting at ILM before they started realizing what the hell they were doing. I think Jedi was still at the time they were doing that. Although George may have told them to stop by then, or kept a few from each film.
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Nov 10, 2011 12:03:39 PM CST
blue_demon - thanks I'll have to check that out
by openthepodbaydoorshal
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I agree. And the moment where Han is talking to Lando in front of the painting of the Falcon is the absolute worst.
Jedi looks cheap and nasty across the board compared with Empire. (Crappy backscreen projection during speeder bike chase, obvious animation of Jabba's sail skiff, poor matte work on the rancor, terrible explosion of the Executor etc.)
Oh, and Empire's matte work is phenomenal. -
When there's a giant Imperial shuttle right there!
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When there's a giant Imperial shuttle right there!
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Well, actually, two problems.
1. Lucas's brain went wrong somewhere in the 1980-1982 period. If you read the (excellent) Rinzler book on the making of ESB, you start to understand that Lucas became obsessed with money. He thought that ESB with its overruns might destroy everything he'd worked for on SW. Even though everything turned out brilliantly, he seems to have become transformed, mentally scarred. From that point onwards he became a conservative, money-oriented film wonk. Jedi was his first film designed to shift lunchboxes rather than stand as a work of art. Before that he had been a genuinely brilliant man.
2. Richard Marquand. A journeyman director; a hack. The staging, blocking, lighting, camerawork and editing on Jedi is all staggeringly mediocre. It looks like it's all filmed on sound stages, barring the stuff on Endor. By contrast, the stuff in ESB shot on stages felt real and immersive (Hoth, Dagobah, Bespin). Compare the dynamic, dirty, beautifully-lit lightsaber duel in Bespin to the drab, flat, stagey and boring duel in the emperor's throne room. -
But tell me which you'd rather see in a behind-the-scenes documentary: a scene like the above or some pear-shaped programmer going on about how many pixels are in Yoda's left eyebrow and how long it took to render his forehead?
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Well it's a tad easier, and requires less skill. If you're doing a digital painting, you can keep undoing and redoing until you get it right. A hand painted matte, you've got one shot really. If you start retouching something over and over again, you're just going to start making it worse. You can't move an entire section of the painting from one side to another in a second. There are no filters. There's no saving your progress, and then taking drastically different approaches to something on the same painting to see which one comes out best. There is no instantaneously color correcting your entire painting to make it match better with other elements, or the previous shot, etc.
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Truly.
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-at least, not right away. I saw it at the Franklin Institute in Philly, perhaps late 80s/early 90s. There was a movie magic kind of exhibit. They also had some props from Aliens there, including that yellow robotics rig Ripley uses.
This painting was awesome in person. -
Nov 10, 2011 6:56:22 PM CST
Love that shot but I do agree out of all the OT Matte painting shots that one is the most matte painting-y
by tallboy6t6
I dunno, even as a kid it seemed a little obviously a matte painting and threw me out for that one shot. Honestly, the rest of the mattes in the OT are fairly seemless with the models. Maybe the shot of Luke outside that big weather vane in Empire before Vader almost lops his fucking head off is a bit easy to spot. Not to say it's a bad shot in the hangar, it looks very nice, but I think maybe the perspective/sides of the ships may be a tad askew so it jumps out.
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Yes, flat out the gate, there aren't many shots in the film that match, oh, pick almost any one, from ESB in framing and composition. But he has his moments. The "under the stairway" single long shot of Luke swinging at Vader like a madman is pretty damn amazing. So it's not all flat and ugly and sound-stage-y.
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would have been even cooler if Leia was there too.
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Nov 10, 2011 7:31:52 PM CST
I'VE GOT THAT MATTE IN MY LIVING ROOM (bought it at auction)
by linguo_is_dead
I pay prostitutes to take shits on it while I watch from underneath...hope that hasn't diminished its monetary value.
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Nah, I'm kidding. It's not so bad, but I wish Spielberg could've directed it. That would've been so awesome. Man, I jizz at the thought of it.
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The three best things:
1) Endor speeder bike chase.
2) Leia in a metal bikini!
3) Leia in a metal bikini!
Okay, seriously though, the Endor speeder bike chase was a great action scene.
The whole opening sequence with Jabba's palace and rescuing Han was easily up to the standard of the previous two Star Wars films.
And while I don't dislike Jedi as a whole, I agree with creepythinmanlives when he says that the space battle and epic final lightsaber duel between Vader and Luke is a great sequence that cross cuts between both events happening at the same time.
Also, when you take into account that Jedi is the climax of the trilogy, it delivers in my opinion. Taken as a single solitary film, then I will agree that Jedi doesn't hold up as well as Star Wars or The Empire Strikes Back. -
Nov 10, 2011 7:48:39 PM CST
linguo_is_dead =I pay prostitutes to take shits on it while I watch from underneath...hope that hasn't diminished its monetary value=
by lv_426
Well, some might say that what you have done to the matte painting, is not as bad as what Lucas has done to Star Wars over the years.
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They've got the physical Falcon mockup in the deleted sandstorm scene, but for the Rebel Hangar there is no set, they did the whole thing with two paintings. Jedi has sets built that aren't even in the movie: Obi-Wan's hut, Death Star corridor, Endor bunker corridor. Rebel hangar, no set! Unfortunately, Episode III is entirely like that scene.
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Nov 10, 2011 11:14:00 PM CST
@blue_demon: NO, ILM used VistaVision (spherical lenses) and that matte painting was not painted *squeezed*.
by justmyluck
Sure, the BTS pic shows Pangrazio's painting an angle, but it's funny that you see that as painted to be un-squeezed by an anamorphic lens.
The reason some matte artists requested a squeezed plate, and painted their matte work *squeezed*, is because the re-photography by spherical lenses yielded a sharper image than by anamorphic lenses. ILM's VistaVision matte photography eliminated that issue.
If you don't believe me, look up that Pangrazio painting in THE ART OF RETURN OF THE JEDI (pages 62-62). It's definitely *flat*. The big difference in the final painting is that two areas in the hangar were later scratched out to incorporate live action elements between the Millennium Falcon and the A-Wing. The Imperial shuttle wings are definitely deformed as compared to the filming miniature. Also, the shuttle cockpit is larger and on a more severe angle than the ILM model. In defense of Pangrazio, maybe only the full-size shuttle cockpit was completed at that point in ROTJ's production. -
Also, A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are dark and a little depressing > Return of the Jedi is kind of sunny and has a happy ending
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Nov 11, 2011 3:48:03 AM CST
I love all mattes in older movies, and the Star Wars ones were some of the most awesome at the time. But...
by cervantes
...with the arrival of amazing realistic-looking digital trickery, some ofthese don't hold the same 'WOW!' factor that they used to at the time.
I've been disappointed that Lucas didn't give a light enhancement to some of the details in these mattes, yet can add crap like unnecessary CGI 'rocks' in front of R2!
However, the good news is that Adywan will definately be improving on some of the more obvious flaws on the mattes for his upcoming 'Empire Strikes Back' fanedit, and the likes of the wrongly-shaped Shuttle will be sorted.
Looking forward to seeing his tweaks for the better on this one particularly. GL take note.
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That art-form, as a whole, is the closing thing to real-life magic that I've ever seen.
I remember seeing The Thing for the first time and wondering how they did that amazing wide shot of finding the ship... and watching the special features on the dvd years later to find out it was a matte painting. Amazing.
* I grew up in a town (80's/90's kid) that basically had no movie nostalgia at all... and my parents wouldn't buy me Fangoria (as much as I begged). So I didn't learn much about the tech/bts workings of films till high school and college. I'm insanely jealous of all you who had film-geek parents or even any hint of film-love in their hometowns. I knew I loved films... but there was nothing to feed into that at all. -
Ahh. Okay. It was the cockpit angle that threw me. I know I remember reading somewhere that matte artists painted squeezed artwork (which sounds damn hard to do). Thanks for the correction!
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tinyurl.com/sa3fs LOL
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I have to say, this is beautiful work... Something that I couldn't achieve.
My only gripe with this matte is the wings on the shuttle. Every time I see this shot in the movie, Iinstantly notice that the wing demensions are just wrong. Such a distorted detail in a Star Wars movie that I imagine that Lucas must have secretly done the painting on the shuttle himself. -
over a digital one anyday.
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Nov 13, 2011 4:39:20 AM CST
There are a fair number of films these day that I'll bet no one even notices the digi-matte
by playkins
More movies than most people think use them to some degree, and we're not talking sci fi or fantasy films where it's obvious. Set extensions, modifying scenery, even changing the weather (putting snow of the ground, etc). No one notices these things, but damn... put a CG spaceship in and you're all crying foul.
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