Cool News
‘Was This You?? . Hercules Has NOW Seen Tonight’s 4th Season Finale Of BREAKING BAD!!
AMC says of "Face Off":
Walt and Jesse team up to take on Gus. With Saul's help, Walt finds an unexpected ally. Written and directed by Vince Gilligan.
Is the massive Huell Walt’s unexpected ally? Did Huell remove the poison from Jesse’s cigarette pack? How did Gus’ Chilean identity prevent Steven Bauer’s Don Eladio from killing him?
As per AMC tradition, the season finale of “Breaking Bad” was not made available to most critics, this time so that Gus Fring’s insanely gory acid death could remain secret until the episode airs.
Clips:
10 p.m. Sunday. AMC.
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But I don't want to spoil it for anyone, as it was spoiled for me: By some a-hole who blurted out the entire freaking episode plot in the middle of a completely unrelated forum post (not AICN). I'm so bitter I could shit a bloody brick.
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Oct 09, 2011 1:00:44 AM CDT
Yes Lawsy! It gon' be on like popcon' Sunday night. Can't hardly wait.
by glodene
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Oct 09, 2011 1:04:18 AM CDT
I guess Herc knows my spoiler image from last week was wrong
by shamelesselitist
Better for me I suppose.
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I scared!
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Your move, Mad Men.
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Now that girl should have played Skylar
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Marc Maron has a GREAT podcast interview with Bryan Cranston (Walter White from Breaking Bad) on his website. He talks about tonights episode in it. You should download it and listen to it.
http://tinyurl.com/3eh7qyj
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Oct 09, 2011 3:44:08 AM CDT
wow a double post? I didn't even finish the first post before it did that...
by jethrobodine
This talkback thing is screwed up. Anyways, check this out.
http://tinyurl.com/3o2v6d8
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but it takes a real man like herc to admit he didn't get one.
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... after this, no Breaking Bad till when? Hopefully the wait isn't as long as the last ridiculously long friggin' wait.
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I saw the spoiler pic that was posted here last week, but jesus dude, what a bitch thing to do.
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If the spoiler you're describing is true, I certainly wasn't aware about it. Why ruin a major plot point like that for viewers? That really, really hurts.
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Real classy guys. You state you haven't seen the episode and then go spoil something in the article. Fuck this site.
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Each season is about driving Walt to do increasingly bad things. Last season he had Gale killed - a man who did not deserve to die - instead of going to the DEA. This season, through desperation to protect his family, he may well have used the ricin on Brock to frame Gus and persuade Jesse that he needs to be killed. Huell may have switched cigarette packets, although I don't see why Saul would agree to it.
I think Walt will succeed in killing Gus but we won't find out until the end that Walt used the ricin. I don't think Jesse will find out the truth because surely this would give Jesse no choice but to kill Walt or turn him in.
In this vein, the final season(s) must surely see Walt do some truly terrible things. Like killing Jesse or Hank. Or possibly, since he's justified everything he's done as being for his family, he could betray Skyler - who is now a criminal - to protect himself. -
He wouldn't post a "Darth Vader is Luke's father" spoiler like that.
Would he?
Unless he's a bitter twat because no one would give him an advance review copy. In which case, if he did drop the biggest spoiler in tv history just to be a spiteful twat, then he will be the world's first official victim of internet rage.
I'm giving Herc the benefit of the doubt. I get the impression he's joking, even if he is a little bitter about not getting a review copy.
Don't let me down, Herc. -
but I still hope the Hector/Little Bell/Kwai theory from a couple weeks ago on here is true.
I think Herc was just speculating and posting about the spoiler pic that everyone in thread looked at last week and discussed.
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because the insights and theories on here have been too good the last few weeks. Sorry Herc.
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lmfao
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so, I don't see how anything is spoiled by what Herc said. We were just discussing the same thing 2 days ago in the other thread, so what's the big deal?
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He's going to be bathing in acid himself.
FUCK. YOU. YOU. CUNT. -
Oct 09, 2011 7:19:04 AM CDT
Acid bath is how all the bodies have been disposed, its specualtion Gus gets killed not a spoiler
by cosmik
Chill
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The fucking cunt probably doesn't have a pair of balls anyway.
Asshole. -
Oct 09, 2011 7:22:29 AM CDT
So that picture fromlast week's talkback was fake? Better fucking had be.
by alan_poon
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is what was said. Nothing about a bath.
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... that business about Gus' gory acid death is a joke. I've no idea what happens in the finale.
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Oct 09, 2011 7:32:30 AM CDT
See...he just agreed with me and others that it looked like acid
by proevad
All is well in geekland.
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Thanks for clearing up the spoiler. :-)
And er, sorry for calling you a cunt. lol spoilers, they bring out the worst in everyone. *rolleyes*
Oh, that supposed spoiler pic... looks photoshopped to me. -
I'm guessing that 95 percent of you are on board with that now? How does that make you feel?
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Terrible, but I still have at least a little hope that it won't pan out that way.
I just can't fathom how the writers expect us to believe that Walt thought the pieces would fall the way they have, by poisoning Walt. -
Oct 09, 2011 8:20:52 AM CDT
I'll go on record as saying that Walt didn't poison the kid.
by mugato5150
It doesn't make sense logistically, even if he was capable of doing it morally. I'll admit if I'm wrong.
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But I think it wasn't the poison I think it was something to mimic the poison. I do think gus is a goner though. You never know with this show though so time will tell.
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Watched 3 episodes of season 3. I know that a person should ideally start from the beginning but the way I saw it, if the acting and writing were good it would be obvious even if I didn't totally understand all the details and motivations. And if it was clearly good then I'd start from episode 1.
Anyhow.... everything involving Walt and Jesse was well done but the parts with Hank were terribly, amateurishly written and acted. I was also struck by how much filler, just dragging scenes out for no reason, there was. -
BB really has no filler episodes. This is not a show to just jump into from the 3rd season. I have it from the 1st season and just showed it to a bunch of people just like you they seen a few episodes in the middle of the show and didnt like it but when viewed from the very first episodes they are hooked now.
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There is something we are missing or it is sloppy writing if he did do it. We will have an entire off season to decide which one it is.
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when he showers "face off"
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Oct 09, 2011 8:41:20 AM CDT
Every fucking week with this "just started watching the show"
by proevad
trolling bullshit. What kind of people are these that start an episodic TV series in the middle? Just don't buy it. No one is that lazy.
I'll watch 3 episodes in the middle of the show, spoil shit for myself, and then start at the pilot. Bullshit.
Throwmetheidol must be countryboy's retarded cousin. Not enough shit happening in the show for these two. Not enuff cars going vroom vroom and guns going bang bang. Titties and blood me want in every scene. Too much with the talky talky bald man.
Get bent. -
and make us wait until the next season to find out if Walt poisoned Brock?
THAT is the question. -
That's my bet, it has to be a third party, a rival to Walt and Gus. Whether it's Hector or someone else, they pulled their strings perfectly.
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Hmm. Got some thinking to do.
Does Hector still have any contacts to find out about Jesse's personal life and shit like that? Do we run into the Walt problem all over again--would Hector have been able to guess Jesse's actions and how would he get or know about the ricin?
Idk. But BB does have fun with flashbacks. -
Is not that big a part of the plot for it to take center stage this epd. It can wait tell next season and i will be fine with that. I think there will come a moment towards the end of show where all that walt has done to jesse like letting his girlfriend die and then brock will come to a head and walt killing jesse will complete his transformation.
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After Gus gloated about killing all of his Mexican friends? Hector looked like a man burning for revenge. I'd totally buy it if it turns out El Vegetal (Hector, The Vegetable) still has a few cards up his sleeve.
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No way in hell can I wait until next season to find out who poisoned Brock's cornflakes! If you're right, and the writers leave it open until next season... man, prepare for rage not seen since Lost's season finale cliffhangers.
Big question -- will Mike turn up this episode? -
That would be fiendishly clever, and would certainly permit Hector to become the ally Walter
White never saw coming.
Do we really think Gus will die here, or will they successfully scare him out of town? -
Walt using Hector in this ep (if we are right), but it never occurred to me that the scene could have been setting up Hector fucking Jesse. He does already hate him.
Liking this more and more. -
Oct 09, 2011 9:09:53 AM CDT
Seriously, "If it's good that should be obvious no matter where I begin" horseshit
by potsmokinalien
If you're watching a movie or a serial TV program, reading a book, even listening to a concept album (although I suspect I'm dating myself with that one— "albums" were these things that record companies would release where there were a bunch of songs one after the other, all by the same musical artist, and you'd listen to them all the way through from beginning to end), anything that uses the narrative form as its underlying structure, it's a pretty self-centered and consumerist attitude to say "If this is good, it doesn't matter where I begin." You watched 3 episodes of season 3, congratulations! Clearly nobody can tell you what to do or what order to watch things in. You're gonna do it your way, and then act like it's the fault of the program when you have no connection to the characters or are unable to understand the significance of anything that's happening. Great attitude, little friend. May it bring you much happiness in life.
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Oct 09, 2011 9:10:44 AM CDT
Fucking wrong button. Anyway, I'm still holding out for...
by walterwhite
A Scarface type moment with the carbomb. Ever since seeing Walt making a bomb in his kitchen, I want to see a scene similar to the car bombing scene in scarface, but worse (in a good way) and Walt actually pulls the trigger... Pushes the button... radios the thingy... Whatever.
What I'm sure about, what we should all be sure about after 4 seasons, is that if 90% of people are saying it was Walt who poisoned the kid-- Shit didn't go down that way.
Can't wait for tonight! Acid bath! Acid bath! Acid bath! -
Was golden ;-)
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Think about it.
I don't think there's any doubt Walt was responsible for the poisoning, but the unwieldiness of the script having him targetting Brock would evaporate if he were to be going for the most straightforward target. JESSE.
In this next episode, I'm guessing we find out Brock accidentally ate or drank Jesse's food or something, and that at the last moment, we find out Mr. White himself was responsible. FAR more of a betrayal than having Walt "just" kill a kid.
It fits with Saul handing Jesse back his money, too. Even though he's probably not aware of 100% of what Walt's doing, Saul is obligated to cut Jesse loose as a client.
Anyway, that's my call. We'll see how it plays out. -
FUUUUUCKKKK. He did. OMG. It would explain everything. You're right. Holy shit.
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Oct 09, 2011 9:15:50 AM CDT
@postmokinalien, next they'll claim they watched The Wire...
by wookie_weed
halfway through the third season and didn't miss a beat. ;-)
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Hector? I doubt he'd be able to orchestrate Brock's poisoning, but I could totally see him helping take Gus out...
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It makes sense. Haha, all of the theories make sense!
If we don't find out in the season finale... man, it's going to be a looooooong 9 - 12 months. -
Mike?
What if Gomez turns out to be on Fring's payroll? It could explain his constant dismissal of Hank's theories. -
Walt Junior?
Hector on the left, Junior on the right... Walt can set himself up to be a badass drug kingpin! :-P -
Over and over - all the misunderstandings between Walt and Jesse for most of the season, right up to the End Days.
You could see it's building to a Shakespearean tragedy of Walt offing Jesse because he thinks he's betrayed him... but he hasn't. Quite the opposite. -
1. The kid stole Jesse's cigarettes, probably with friends, to smoke and look cool like Jesse or some older kid. The kid(s) found the vial and thought it was drugs and opened it (which is probably all that it would take). I'll bet there are one or two other kids who are either dying or dead we'll find out about in tonight's episode
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2. The ricin has nothing to do with the kid getting sick. The doctors will realize that they missed something and then the kid will be alright. But Jesse won't find out about this (or at least the viewer won't) until he and Walt have committed some heinous act of revenge on Gus. REMEMBER that both Walt and Jesse think Gus is going to kill them - but what if he isn't? What if he keeps his word with Jesse and leaves Walt alone. What if 'appropriate measures' was just a writer's red herring? -
Every season he does something more "evil".
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Oct 09, 2011 9:31:53 AM CDT
I was thinking the same thing all season, gunslinger. But...
by wookie_weed
At the end of the last episode, Walt & Jesse are on the same side again -- or rather, they're cooperating to take out Gus. If Walt accidentally poisoned Brock when Jesse was the real target, he'll keep quiet about that like he did with Jane, especially because he has Jesse back on side and aiming for Gus.
Whatever happens... the last few episodes has me as paranoid as Walt -- I don't know what the hell is going on or who to trust! Glad I'm not a drug dealer.
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I'm trying not to get too hyped up since that just sometimes lets you down in the end, but fuck me this is going to be amazing television. Count me in the "Walt did it" camp.
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Oct 09, 2011 9:37:37 AM CDT
We know Gus is capable of killing a kid... but that's too obvious
by wookie_weed
I can buy the theory that Walt does it out of necessity -- in order to beat Gus he has to become Gus. But it just doesn't add up for me... I'm still thinking Jesse jumped to conclusions, that Brock got sick from something that has nothing to do with Jesse, Walt, or Gus -- his mum is still doing meth, and Brock found her secret stash for example.
Jumping to conclusions has been the main theme of this season. Every time Walt jumped to a conclusion, he made things worse. And now Jesse has turned into Walt... and is Walt turning into Gus?
Bloody hell, when does the finale air? This speculating is doing my head in! -
A lot of good theories that all make sense... damn good writing by Gilligan and co to keep us guessing this way. I just hope the finale doesn't do a Lost on us.
And I hope that acid Gus pic is a fake. >:-( -
Walt has a long way to go before he is Scar Face and unless next season speeds up time a lot I don't see him being like Gus either. I do hope they do speed up time a little though its only been about a year since walt started with the meth
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The end.
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. . . Huell is on Hector's payroll? That would launch the 'Hector did it' theory well into the realm of plausibility. He has the motive (revenge against Jesse, and incidentally turning Jesse against Gus), the knowledge and the ability (through Huell). The only disappointment with this theory is that it would be a bit much for all of Saul's employees to keep betraying Saul's clients for major players in the drug trade (e.g., Mike for Gus, then Huell for Hector).
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And got hooked immediately. Of course I didn't get everything but I got the gist. Then I plowed through it from the beginning via Netflix. As for "filler", the only subplot I think isn't vital to the story is Hank's wife's shoplifting. But overall it's a very tight show.
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I've read every single Brock speculation post over the past week, and I think your theory makes the most sense and is the most satisfying. I seriously hope you're right!
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If Jesse had the cigs the whole time. Hard to believe it's only been a week. Seems like people have been arguing this for months.
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That would be such a fucking kick in the nuts. So much more so than Walt killing Brock, cute as the little bastard is. Best idea on the topic of the ricin that I've yet heard... But man, do I not want it to be true!
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Maybe and I am stretching here but how bout hanks wife becoming a mule for walt next season so she can repay him back. LOL Then BB will have no filler it was just forshadowing her decent into becoming the best drug mule she can be
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I certainly don't know the answer to your question, but I think it's also a potential problem for the "Walt poisoned Brock" theories as well. Hopefully we'll know the answers soon enough!
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Or maybe if the ricin really hasn't been used yet she can use her mad shoplifting skillz in reverse to plant it on someone.
I wasn't ripping on the show, BTW. I just commented that *as of right now*, I don't get the significance of her tomfoolery. Except maybe as a comment that every seemingly normal family is fucked up one way or another. Some much, much more than others.
It certainly isn't on the same level as some of the filler in 24, another favorite of mine. Especially the one where Kim got lost, chased by a cougar, met Johnny Drama, stepped in a bear trap, got tarred and feathered, etc. -
When Huell frisks Jesse you can see him put the pack of cigs in his own pocket. I've been watching that part several times and either my eyes are lying to me or Saul has something to do with the pack of cigs gone missing/being replaced. If he did that on Walt's request or Gus' order remains to be seen.
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Am I the only one who finds Walter Jr. irritating with his constant complaining?
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In Vince Gilligan I Trust
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after frisking jesse, huell does slide his hand in his pocket. good eyes man
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Let's not forget that someone told the cartel how to find Gus' UV marked buckets.
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I forget who it was, but several weeks ago after Hank's meeting with Gus and the DEA regarding Gale's death, there was some speculation on these boards that either Gomez and the mustachioed older DEA guy or both of them were in on the take with Gus.
That seems pretty plausible to me... Gomez's phototaking at the laundry last week could've just been a placating move for the DEA to be like, yes Hank we looked at it, nothing there, let's move on please. (after all, without drugs to keep them busy, the DEA wouldn't have jobs. "DEA gotta eat" if you will)
It'd be kind of crazy if this season left Walter with no enemies whatsoever. Jesse under his thumb, Gus dead, the DEA on his side, the cartel eliminated... who would there be left to prove himself superior to? -
No one poisoned Brock. That will be the big reveal at the end. After they have already killed Gus, that is. The cigarette will be seen somewhere like on the floor or something. it fell out when jesse was changing packs.
So far no one at the hospital has confirmed poisoning and Jesse has not talked to Brock's mom (forgot her name) yet.
Also, hopefully, there will be closure on Beneke tonight. -
Oct 09, 2011 1:17:05 PM CDT
Who else besides Walt and Jesse knew about the cigarette?
by turingtestee
Not quite buying that Brock was poisoned. But the cigarette is missing. Most of my waking (and even sleeping) conscious attention would be irresistibly drawn constantly to the DEADLY ASSASSIN POISON on my person at all times. Last few episodes have been quite gonzo. I'm calling it . . . over a year and a half, but under two until next season.
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is that the guy can't fucking talk. How is he gonna give orders?
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Tuco was just too fucking stupid to learn it.
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thus the confusion and the abundance of theories.
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He is the most moral person on the show. Just loves his pops and wants to protect him. Gotta admire that. Rare these days.
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For a while now, I've wondered if the end of the series will feature Walt Jr turning his dad in. Siding with Hank instead, with whom Walt Jr has a kind of casual ease that we never see between him and Walt, and helping the DEA take his dad down.
I'm gonna have plenty of time to wonder whether I'm right about that one, though... -
I thought I was the only one who had a problem with Tio giving orders without being able to talk. Or how he would even know about Brock and/or the poison.
And yes, Skyler is a fucking bitch. Not that it's a flaw in the show or Ms. Gunn's performance. There's no shortage of shrieking harpy wives in the world. She's actually mellowed out a bit since learning about Walt's occupation.
I have no problem with Walt Jr. In fact, I hope by the end of the show he pulls a Godfather and becomes the meth kingpin. Gus and Hector and Hank and everyone else in the DEA get whacked in a montage with Skylar looking on as the door slowly closes... -
when IS the next season? Will it really be split into two parts? Getting conflicting info.
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I understand why everyone finds Skylar so annoying, but in the history of television, the annoying wife who doesn't understand what's really going on has been done a million times and is a necessary evil for a show like this, and by comparison, Skylar is actually considerably less annoying and "shrieking harpy-esque" than other iterations. But man, Walter Jr really annoys the shit out of me. Talk about a spoiled little bastard who really underestimates his dad. I think Walt Jr emasculates Walt more than Skylar ever did. I hate his little speeches to his dad. Hate that fucking kid.
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Oct 09, 2011 2:19:50 PM CDT
i hav never had this kind of anxiety going into a finale.
by dahveed1972
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Oct 09, 2011 2:30:06 PM CDT
if i felt the way some do about skyler & walt jr i wouldnt love this show half as much asi do. only walt and jesse are more important to the greatness of bb.
by dahveed1972
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That's what I'm calling. He's about as unlikely as it gets, and Walt reached out to him early on. He probably doesn't appreciate being left for dead by the doctors. Walt didn't poison Brock.
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Is spelling out "PINKMAN" on a Ouija board such a stretch?
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I'd love to see the dude pop up again this season, but he doesn't strike me as particularly unlikely as far as potential allies go. I was sort of expecting him to next appear sometime during season 5 as a surprise.
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.....and... ummm.... anyone listening in to Jesse's house.
If Jesse's house isn't bugged, I'll eat my shoe. It is leather. With some boiling, and a good sauce... it could be done.
I also re-watched the scene with Jesse getting searched at Saul's. Fat Albert clearly DOES reach into his pocket surreptitiously, no question, immediately after the frisk. Fact. Does that mean he snagged the cigs and replaced them? Not unless he secretly trained with David Blaine and it hasn't been mentioned yet. And what indication have we that Goodman is even anywhere near capable of covering his (or a client's) ass by killing a child? And Fat Albert hasn't shown us anything yet other than seeming like a likeable, nice bear of a man. Kinda child-like himself.
AND... exactly how much time do you guys think passed between Jesse's frisking and waking up to that phone call on his couch? The scene before looks like sunset with Skylar on the balcony, so who knows? I'm just asking. Some time has passed? But how easy is it to sneak into a home and slip poison into someone's food AT the right time AND without being spotted by someone? AND with a guarantee that the food or drink hits the right target. How long has it been since the last money delivery?? I thought that just happened. What reason would anyone working for Saul have for visiting the kid's house? (cant recall his or her name at the moment) Now juxtapose that with the timeline. Doesn't leave that much time between Jesse's visit to Saul's office and his catnap.
Those assuming Walt DID poison the kid are way off base. He's not there yet, if he even ever DOES fall that far. You can be evil without killing children. And how exactly is that an effective way to get Jesse back on his side? Maybe, but at what possible costs? They had a major spat, sure. But as a reaction/plan, that's going way too far. That's not even a "full measure" it's OVERKILL. Literally. Also, Walt has shown me NO signs that he's developed the kind of habits that would lead him to take the life of a child, or even risk the life of a child. He's morally compromised, not morally destroyed. Not yet. And what's the real payoff vs the risk of murdering a kid? I'm thinking the kid isn't even poisoned with Ricin. And if he is, it's through some kind of minimal exposure, an accident. Occam's Razor. Who has been closest to the kid? More than Jesse? That's right, no-one.
The level of desperation required for him to kill a kid is waaaay above the desperation needed for him to kill Gus where he works, assuming Gus would just be thinking Walt wants to talk, for *reassurance* or to make some kind of deal.
Having said all that....
BEST AMERICAN SHOW OF ALL TIME!!
Maybe I'm not thinking this through, but I don't think Walt would have killed a kid. Or even the girlfriend. I can see Walt killing out of desperation now, in a situation, for direct reasons. Not to manipulate. And only people who he feels either deserve it, or put themselves into the situation they are in. He's not EVER going to be *evil*. He will, until the very final moments, be able to justify EVERY SINGLE ONE of his actions, in his mind. Mark my words. This guy is NEVER going to be your garden variety, bad movie character bad guy, with stupid motivations and an acceptance that he's just *evil now*. That's not how this show or his character works. He'll always be able to justify what he does. Even if that justification is that he just *had no choice*. Not the case here, with the kid. Not the case.
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When Gus is gone, who is the bigger, badder version? Of course, the evil German Multinational congolmerate that we just learned of in the last two shows.
Hank mentioned it obliquely in 411 and Gomez spoke directly of it in 412 - THEY OWN the 14 Hermanos Pollos stores that Gus runs, not Gus.
The German group owns the Laundry and produces the high-end Air Filtration system that is installed in the Meth Lab/Laundry. (Hank told us that Gale signed for it)
Hell, it might even be the Germans that take out Gus tonight - they might have had enough of all the "trouble" down there. They might even hire Walt and Jesse.
Or I might have my head up my ass.
Damn, this is good TV. -
Oct 09, 2011 3:31:12 PM CDT
Gotta say re: the ricin, I think the idea that Brock ate something that Walt intended to be eaten by Jesse is right on the money.
by potsmokinalien
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He does have a kid of his own, or grandkid. (I do not remember which, or even if it was made clear) That's been established. I'm not sure how he'd feel if Gus started to suddenly kill off children in order to manipulate people. The gang guys killing that kid was indirect, and Gus made it clear where he stood on that practice. (or at least outwardly) I don't think Mike would tolerate it. Or enjoy being associated with it. ... real hard.... Couple that with being set aside in Mexico to die while they treated Gus, when it was clearly possible to spend at least some of their attention on him, and you do have a potential ally ( even if just by coincidence) for Walt. In the short term. I get the sense that Mike is doing much of what he does out of desperation and *loss of religion* due to a betrayal or realization that his being *one of the good guys* was just a naive concept. Under it all, however, I think he has a code of behaviour.
I still think the kid being poisoned just feels wrong. I have doubts he was poisoned. But if he was, and it was Gus' doing, shit.... meet fan. -
Walt stole the ricin and poisoned the kid with some other poison. We will see Walt have the ricin cigarette at the end, thus confirming he was behind it. The twist will be when we see Skylar go searching for a cigarette and grab the ricin one. She's been smoking so much, and it was such a thing when she first started it when she was pregnant (due to being stressed about Walt).
It would only be fitting that Skylar gets killed by Walt's ricin cigarette since he was the one that drove her back to smoking. -
I don't buy it. Why? (amongst many reasons)....
Because Jesse came over, and was an easy target for several minutes before Walt set his gun down. If you're willing to poison a child, why not kill Jesse when he's alone with you in a house he knew no-one would be coming over to for any reason?.. for how long? Could still be days.
And Walt's reactions to what Jesse was saying. Jesse is still one of Walt's only allies, even if that allegiance has been stretched to its limits.
Where exactly is this *Walt wants to kill Jesse now* logic coming from anyway? Who does he want dead? GUS. Who does he know that still gets close to Gus? One person. Jesse.
It makes zero sense. -
will be the pack of cigarettes, open on the ground, showing the *lucky** cigarette with the Ricin.
I know for a fact that the last image will be of an object, and no character will be in shot. And it will be a slow shot, pulling into an object. I think the location will be the parking lot of the laundry. But I could be wrong about that. But I don't think I'm wrong about the object.
We'll see.
*for those unfamiliar with the practice, some smokers slowly killing themselves like to turn one smoke upside down in a pack and call it their *lucky* smoke. I always though, yeah who knows, that might just be the one that gives you cancer finally. -
He told her to SAY that it could be Ricin. And if she did tell the doctors (why wouldn't she??), and they agreed it was Ricin by testing or recognizing the symptoms, a call to the police would be immediate AND they would want to know why Jesse KNEW it was Ricin.
The logical conclusion is that the doctors somehow know it is NOT Ricin and are now simply thinking this girl and her kid are hanging around a very strange, mentally ill or very dangerous guy. (that she does not want in the room with them)
Just think about that for a moment. Pretend you're a doctor that knows a child you're treating, and is in immediate danger, ingested Ricin AND the guy that conveyed the information to you is standing around trying to get in to see the kid. What would YOU do? Not only is Ricin illegal to possess, it's A KID!! You'd call the cops. Or at least CPS. They have to.
It's either a plot hole OR it's not Ricin at all. (unless that's what happens next... the cops show up and Jesse splits) -
If the kid dies, and Gus is the one who caused the kid to be poisoned.... he's going to have to possibly explain why he shows up on surveillance footage in the hospital that day.... somewhere down the road. I think he's too smart for that. I think he knows too many cops would recognize him. And he'd have to come up with a reason to be there (even if he's on the board of directors). Sure, tying him to the murder of the kid would be a stretch, but it's also a risk I don't think Gus would take.
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Oct 09, 2011 4:08:47 PM CDT
Looks like a lot of you didn't watch close enough last week.
by shermdawg
And Jesse was never a target for poisoning. C'mon guys, he's Walt's only chance at taking down Fring, for crying out loud.
Seriously, did everyone just drift off during the scene where Walt's sitting in the backyard?
Between that and the Jesse's visit to Saul's office, most of your answers are right there. -
Oct 09, 2011 4:12:32 PM CDT
he's Walt's only chance at taking down Fring, for crying out loud
by gotilk
EXACTLY!
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Oct 09, 2011 4:13:39 PM CDT
and if anyone thinks a doctor would not report Ricin poisoning
by gotilk
of a CHILD to the authorities IMMEDIATELY is living in fantasyland.
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No one is asking that. He is broke again, and has to cook. He lost everything 2 weeks ago. Washing New Mexicans cars (especially with his cancer back--notice the cough the last 4 weeks or so?) isn't going to satisfy him.
As far as the who poisoned who theories, they all have problems and holes. I still think Walter trying to kill Jesse has less holes than the other theories. For one thing, it's always been his best option since Gale was killed. Question is, how much does he love Jesse?
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I WISH I HAD THIS CHANNEL!!!!! monday could not come sooner
also i don't think brock was poisoned for reasons gotlik said, and i haven't heard any convincing arguments for any of the characters motivations. so unless brock found it and thought it was drugs, i don't see him getting poisoned. however, i doubt brock would be that stupid anyways to think he could take all the ricin and think jesse wouldn't notice.
also the stuff with huell frisking jesse, if ur frisking someone, of course your going to check their pockets. he probably reached in there, realized they were cigerattes and continued the frisk. and i don't think saul, gus, or walt would be down with poisoning a kid. dosent serve that much of a purpose, leaves way too much up to chance, and ur poisoning a fucking kid. -
The money means nothing now. The safety of his family is all he cares about (right now). There's NO WAY Walt would go back to work for Fring. There's no way Fring would want Walt to work for him....under the same conditions. That business relationship is over. It's personal now. Gus has to be taken out (just like the dealer in Pinkman's basement that posed a threat to his family), and the only person Walt has to help him with this is Jesse.
Problem is, Gus and Mike turned Jesse against Walt. They played his bitch ass. So Walt, after being pushed to the edge, did what he's done several times before over the course of the series, and that is craft a ingenious plan to get himself out of a jam. This time, he had to stoop to Fring's level and get Pinkman back in his corner....which last weeks episode shows....if you go back and watch.
There's no holes to this theory. Everything jives. From the motives to the scenes shown which show this "theory" being set into motion, as well as a certain character introduction a few episodes back. It's all there. -
1.Shakedown at Ted's.
2.Jesse chasing Walt off.
3.Gus' threat
3.Walt in the crawlspace.
4.Walt's conversation with Skyler afterwards.
5.Walt's scene in the backyard (important)
6.Jesse being rushed to Saul's office and being given a pat down.
7.The poisoning, and conclusion that Walt was behind it.
8.The faceoff between Walt and Jesse.
9.The reformation of Team Winnebago -
Some good points, we'll see how it goes down in a few hours... I don't necessarily put as much stock in how it'd go down in the real world as you do, particularly the hospital staff and how they would handle a case of ricin poisoning; at the end of the day I think this show is more interested in making thematic points via its plot than going for straight-up verisimilitude. (For example, I'm sure an investigation into the safeguards air traffic controllers have in place against midair collisions would reveal a wealth of glaring inaccuracies in the season 2 finale, but because of what that plot development said about Walt's behavior having potentially gigantic and unpredictable consequences, I wouldn't care.)
From that perspective, I feel like Walt trying to kill Jesse makes sense: Walt felt rejected by Jesse and Gus 'chose' Jesse over Walt. I think that Walt's affection for Jesse has less to do with gradually growing to think of him as a son and more to do with the fact that Jesse is the one and only person who's had a front-row seat for Walter's transformation from "Mr White the chemistry teacher" to the man he has almost become. He's the only person who actually *knows* Walt, and in doing so kind of validates the things Walt has done along the road to becoming totally corrupt.
It was hard enough watching that fistfight a few episodes ago; it would be shattering for me as a longtime viewer to learn that Walt actually tried to kill Jesse by using the same petty, pin-dicked logic that dictated he kill Gus— "I must be the best, I must be in control, there must be no-one above me." The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine a better way for the show to indelibly illustrate to me that Walt's gone past the point of no return.
Anyway, we don't have long to wait. May both of our expectations be totally subverted! May Season 5 be devoted to a comic road-trip storyline starring Huell and Kuby as they race across the country in Walt Jr's PT Cruiser, bumblingly taking care of the newly orphaned Holly and scrambling to get to the IRS headquarters and intercept Benneke's check by using his corpse in a "Weekend At Bernie's"-esque ploy. (spoiler) -
Oct 09, 2011 5:30:29 PM CDT
jsfithaca, my best advice if you're not seeing it till Monday
by mugato5150
Is stay away from spoilers, sure as shit stay away from this site. Or the internet in general. Go live among the Amish for a couple days.
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It isn't my theory. I just happen to think it's the best option.
If there are no holes in the Walt poisoned Brock to get Jesse back theory, then why is half of last week's thread about holes in the Walt poisoned Brock to get Jesse back theory. There are a ton of them. Walt isn't a psychic is the main one. Sloppy writing if that's the case tonight. -
Oct 09, 2011 5:53:32 PM CDT
Why is half of last week's thread about holes in the Walt poisoned Brock to get Jesse back theory?
by shermdawg
Because you guys were too busy chatting and not paying attention.
And what does Walt not being psychic have anything to do with it? -
Oct 09, 2011 6:01:07 PM CDT
Because there is no way Walt could have predicted how Jesse would have reacted
by proevad
None. He's not a mindreader. It has everything to do with it. Huge plot hole. Huge enough, that I will not watch next season if it's the case tonight.
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Oct 09, 2011 6:04:30 PM CDT
and I was on board with it a few days ago, but got talked out of it
by proevad
The deniers made a lot of sense.
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Oct 09, 2011 6:07:47 PM CDT
That's not a plot hole. It's a chance. The only chance Walt had left to take.
by shermdawg
Jesse, why on earth would I hurt a child?
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There isn't going to be answer to that final plot twist (Brock being sick) that satisfies everyone. Every angle has been examined on here, and like I said--there are problems with all of the theories, including gunslingers.
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yea i go amish from about 9 sunday night until i watch it the next day
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I'm sure that will be the explanation. I even think I defended it that exact way on last week's thread, or was going to. Then I realized I was defending what I think is average/bad writing. One hell of a chance, taken by a character who doesn't take chances--and everything worked out perfect. I just don't like it. Think the show is much better than that.
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The Walt/Jesse thing wasn't a plothole. It wasn't a issue of Walt being "psychic". It was an instance of a desperate man taking a chance. His last and only chance to save his family.
Jesse has been shown to be easily swayed. Fring has had a history of not giving a damn about a child's well being. Walt hammered this in. He played him.
That isn't sloppy writing. It's god damned brilliant.
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But if he didn't, then I want to know what his plan was. Because otherwise, it looks a hell of a lot as if he spent all day DOING NOTHING while his entire family was at risk of being MURDERED. If Walt didn't poison Brock, then what WAS his plan?
Also, the idea of Walt killing Jesse at this point is ridiculous. As stated previously, there's no way he's going back to cook for Gus (and there's no way that Gus will take him back). Killing Jesse wouldn't solve shit. Furthermore, did anyone see how broken up Walter was over Jesse just a couple of episodes ago? No way that he goes and murders the shit out of him. Not now, at least.
And if it was Gus who did it, that'll be extremely disappointing. Because Gus would've had to know that there's a very good chance of Walt talking to Jesse about it, and Gus would have had to have known that Walt would have little problem convincing Jesse that it was Gus who did it. That is, after all, EXACTLY how things played out. There's a dividing line here. Before the poisoning, Jesse was on Gus's side. After the poisoning, Jesse and Walt had reunited in order to kill Gus. The poisoning was the precise event which changed things against Gus, and yet some people are trying to say that it was Gus who was entirely responsible for that? He's not that stupid. -
Seriously.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lily_of_the_valley -
and went and got himself killed? So much for Walt's grand love for Jesse according to this theory.
Walt would know that Jesse would have to mention ricin to the hospital and cops would have to be called? (which they weren't. more bad writing)
What if Jesse had blown out Walter's brains all over the floor? Oops.
Why was Walter so paranoid and distressed and surprised to see Jesse show up at his door? No one was around to see that.
Not very brilliant if you ask me, but to each his own.
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Is that why he's had to cover up his tracks? I would like to see a flashback in Chile to show him committing some atrocity. I guess that would only happen in this ep. if he dies.
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I beg to differ. Sure, he was a meek, nice guy and all, but at the end of the day he was a meth manufacturer -- just like Walt. Just because he labeled himself a libertarian didn't mean he was any less reprehensible and morally bankrupt than Walt or Jesse. He deserved to die, just like Walt, Jesse, Gus and just about every other character on this show not named Walt Jr., Hank or Marie.
And to the person who commented on Walt Jr. being grating: He's a 16-/17-year-old boy. Ergo, he is constantly complaining and sees everything in black and white. Most teenagers these days would make Walt Jr. look like a piker when it comes to obnoxiousness. -
1) Uh...that's precisely why the ricin cigarette had to be stolen (even though it likely hasn't been used). In order to force Jesse to confront WALT, instead of confronting Gus.
2) Cops weren't called because the kid WASN'T poisoned with ricin.
3) Calculated risk for a man with no other options. And if Jesse was going to PERSONALLY blow Walt's head off, then it's fair to assume that (given their history) that Jesse would demand an explanation. The REAL risk is not of Jesse shooting Walt. The REAL risk is that Jesse will simply go back to Gus and say, "I thought it over and you're right. I don't want Mr White to die, but there's really no other choice." Make no mistake...Jesse didn't have to kill Walt at all. All he had to do is give the okay to Gus. If he's personally showing up to kill Walt, then it's a personal matter and it's then entirely likely that words will be exchanged.
4) Walt was paranoid because he didn't know WHO was going to show up. If Jesse showed up, then the plan was working. But it was also entirely possible that it'd be Gus's goons who show up to kill Walt. -
someone or ones is getting it tonight....
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Oct 09, 2011 6:58:01 PM CDT
Why was Walter so paranoid and distressed and surprised to see Jesse show up at his door?
by shermdawg
It was an act.
The whole thing was an act. -
I agree with shermdawg.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lily_of_the_valley
There have been several shots with this plant...
coincidence?
I think not. -
Oct 09, 2011 7:00:15 PM CDT
And do you really think Gus' goons would show up at the Whites?
by shermdawg
Gus is a smart guy. He's probably under the assumption it was being watched by the DEA.
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Oct 09, 2011 7:02:55 PM CDT
Cops weren't called because the kid WASN'T poisoned with ricin
by proevad
That's crap. Any mention of ricin, or anthrax and not only the cops--the feds would have been swarming that place. Jesse would have been arrested.
Jesse still could have figured out it was Gus pretty easily, because of Gus' history of killing kids.
Also, Walter wasn't just paranoid. He was surprised it was Jesse at the door. You didn't answer that.
Also, if there were no bullets in the gun that Walt just left lying around--any idiot can tell when a gun isn't loaded just by the heft on an auto--and you can see if the chambers are empty on a revolver. (not sure what was shown)
Like I said. It's probably going to be just like you say. I'm arguing that there were better options for Walt, and that the writing here is about on par with Grey's Anatomy.
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And Gus knows this. If the DEA is watching Walt, then that leaves Walt completely helpless against Gus.
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Also, why would Jesse initially assume it's Gus? Why would Gus poison someone his last means to the product cared about? Do you really think Jesse would continue to work for him after that?
Walt was the only realistic choice. And yes, Jesse was right. But he still got played. He always gets played. Even when he's right. Seeing Mr.White run over the two drug dealers that killed the brother of his girlfriend upon Fring's request played heavily into choosing sides.
Also, regarding the gun, it probably was loaded. That's not even an issue. -
and the cops WEREN'T swarming all over the place. So I don't see how you can even make a claim like "Any mention of ricin, or anthrax and not only the cops--the feds would have been swarming that place. Jesse would have been arrested."
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Probably frigging peanut allergies like half the kids in America. Walt wouldn't have time to poison the kid. The cops would have been all over Jesse if the kid was poisoned. The idea he was poisoned was just Jesse's paranoia. Try not to blame the producers that you bought into Jesse's delusional guilt trip.
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Oct 09, 2011 7:15:28 PM CDT
actually just thr mention of ricin shouldve gotten taken into custody. im thinking it might still happen tonite.
by dahveed1972
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Oct 09, 2011 7:16:48 PM CDT
Jesse did mention it, but he's not the one that informed the doctors.
by shermdawg
Who knows how Brock's mom relayed the theory.
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Oct 09, 2011 7:17:31 PM CDT
He probably wouldn't initially assume it was Gus, but he could have and Walter took a huge chance
by proevad
was my point. I'll give you guys that one and let it go.
I can't let go of the fact that Walter risked Jesse getting arrested. The writers just ignored that by not having any law enforcement called. Doesn't matter if he was poisoned with bleach. A skeezy looking guy says a kid was poisoned and they not only don't arrest him, they let him wander around the hospital.
And once again, I'll mention that Walt was surprised that Jesse was showed up at his door. Guess no one wants to touch that one. -
Oct 09, 2011 7:19:06 PM CDT
proevad i think vinde and co. hav earned more faith on your part. just because we cant imagine a plausible resolution doesnt mean there isnt one. more than one in fact.
by dahveed1972
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But he's definitely the one who made it.
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Last week it was Hyacinth. Make up your minds lol
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that got him kicked out of the ICU. What else could she have possibly told them?
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It was an act.
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That was exactly my point, man. Why weren't the cops swarming all over the place? Because the writers didn't put it in the script, because it would have fucked up their plot. Therefore, HOLE.
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He was surprised before he opened the door.
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Oct 09, 2011 7:29:15 PM CDT
Hole or no hole, at least it's nowhere near as stupid as the plane crash.
by shermdawg
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lol. Cya guys in a couple hours for what I think is going to be an epic whine, bitch, and moan session.
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And they will likely never get a single screener ever again after they accidentally published their review of the episode about 15 hours before it aired. The review contained several MASSIVE spoilers, all of which are currently spreading wildly across the great Internet plains.
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Have now taken it down. Too little, too late though I fear. For us all.
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Yep, it's been removed from their site. I'm not going to post a link, but it's still available on Google cache.
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Walter wasn't surprised. He was nervous, twitchy, jumpy, whatever you want to call it... which is exactly how he would have been.
Imagine you are Walter, in the scenario where which Walter poisoned Brock.
- You're terrified that you or your family is going to be killed.
- You've spent the entire day hatching a frantic complicated plot which involves poisoning Brock, and having Saul swap the cigarette pack.
- You're waiting for Jesse to show up at your home. You're also expecting him to very likely be there to kill you, and your entire plan relies on your ability to convincingly 'sell' the story that it was Gus.
- There's still a huge chance that Gus could send someone to kill you, completely independent of your plan. When you open the door, it might not even be Jesse.
Would you be relaxed? Would you swing the door open and greet Jesse with a smile? And then try to sell the biggest lie you've ever told?
Or would you be twitchy, jumpy, nervous, wound up, and excited all at the same time? Would you not check the windows before opening the door?
Those emotions are what was portrayed, not surprise. Go watch it again. -
I have remained spoiler free all day and plan on being shocked when I finally get to see the Season Finale soon. -
Is that it's pretty good so far. No answers yet but it just started.
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Oct 09, 2011 9:20:34 PM CDT
i called it! tio is gonna blow a cloud of ricin all over gu a la whatshisname the duke in dune.
by dahveed1972
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She makes Skylar seem charming and demure.
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I'm in awe.
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Any help finding this episode would be very much appreciated. toddfluhr at gmail.
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at least one of you was right
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But seriously, FUCK MY ASS.
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Oct 09, 2011 9:50:28 PM CDT
Um....holy fuck. NOBODY better spoil that for other time zones
by memento108
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Nice work executing that, Gilligan.
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Holy fucking mother shit.
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Asshole. I suppose people who haven't seen it shouldn't be here anyway but still.
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... truly one of the most incredible episodes of television I have ever seen.
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If you haven't seen the picture, you haven't been spoiled. Calm down. I just can't believe it was right.
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Best CGI trauma I have ever seen.
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Oct 09, 2011 10:00:12 PM CDT
Absolutely one of the greatest kills ever! And the final shot...HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!
by elgato73
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Cement this show's place in the pantheon? Wire, Sopranos etc... ?
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Oct 09, 2011 10:03:38 PM CDT
And this is why Breaking Bad deserved that Emmy for Best Series over that absolute piece of shit Mad Men.
by elgato73
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Not in the since that I had any idea, but I knew it!
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I would say unequivocally so, yes!
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snap!
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I knew it. haha you fuckers owe me a cookie.
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Oct 09, 2011 10:10:21 PM CDT
This just proves that my ninja, Walt ain't the one to pushed into a corner.
by glodene
Now I gotta wait until Summer to find out how this mutha fucka is gonna end. Damn!
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Love Gus's walk into the nursing home...I knew they were sending him out but it was still so fucking awesome.
I hope they explain next season (and I'm sure they will) how Walt got the berries to Brock, and also what happened to the cig. For now, that was a perfect finale. So incredible.
I love this show. -
Excellent job sir, excellent job
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If you are reading this talkback BEFORE you watch the episode, you DESERVE to be spoiled. Learn some self-discipline.
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It's a brand new ballgame now...still a few unanswered questions on the table, but that was a totally satisfying conclusion to a great season 4.
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Anyone got a link that works where I can stream it online?!!?
Stuck in a hotel with no AMC and don't wanna wait til tomorrow night when I get home to the DVR.
Help a mofo out, please. -
http://tinyurl.com/3hljhdt
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I suspect you'll have some interesting things to say after seeing it.
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so, i'm ok. few niggling things still irritating me, but I'll soldier on next summer. I won't be on these threads next year. People on here are too damn smart. There were zero surprises in this thing. Peace. Out. Yo.
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He'll never be sure though
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It had the epi I missed really early the next morning.
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Your quote from last week:
>
I hope the crow tastes delicious.
-a retarded Einstein
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Oct 09, 2011 10:21:41 PM CDT
so other than mike (i assume the ricin was taken during frisk) no major loose ends.
by dahveed1972
So is next season gonna be hank v Heisenberg?
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I was expecting the stove to be ON. If you know what I mean.
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Oct 09, 2011 10:24:34 PM CDT
Looking through all of the posts from last week, it is HILARIOUS
by badmrwonka
madeyemongo wrote:
>
HA!
I won't gloat and point out that I was right about basically everything. OK, I will just a little bit. -
One of the first episodes with a lizard skinned alien being chased by Breen-like (or V-alien like) hunters. I saw a behind the scenes clip of the guy. Is that him?
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Even with Gus out of the picture, we're still going to get flashbacks of his backstory. Someone is coming to New Mexico to find out what happened. Gus is some sort of royalty and his death will not go unpunished. Hank's going to be a mad man next season. He is going to tell everyone I told you so. Gus is now linked to the cartel and they are going to find the left overs from the meth lab at the laundry. Jesse will find out eventually about Walt doing the poisoning. He has to. It's going to be Walt vs. Hank vs. New Gus Background People. vs. Jesse and Mike.
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best line of the night
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whose backyard was in the final shot?
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Oct 09, 2011 10:28:42 PM CDT
OK AICN, we can't use quotation marks, now we can't even use FUCKING CARROTS?!?!?
by badmrwonka
I'm usually your biggest defender, but this is fucking ridiculous.
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Oct 09, 2011 10:28:43 PM CDT
didnt gus have a family? and i wonder what old hank is making of all this? m vaguely curious how the boy was poisoned and i still think walts plan was iffy as hell
by dahveed1972
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Oct 09, 2011 10:30:46 PM CDT
therawbeats - Thanks for remembering that I called the Tio solution
by baribunma
proevad probably remembers it too - a couple weeks back.
(http://www.aintitcool.com/node/51343)
Not saying any more until everybody has had a chance to watch the thing at least once.
What to I win? -
wookie_weed wrote: For fucks sake, Walt did not poison Brock!!! Fuck me you Einsteins are mindboggingly retarded.
madeyemongo wrote (about the leaked pic of Gus' face): Jeez, enough with that cheesy photoshopped picture. It is obviously a (very) poorly made fake.
not as much zing to it now that I have to correct for a)no edit feature, b) quotation mark glitch, c) can't even use carrots to indicate quotations.
man, come ON guys. you could find someone on craig's list to fix these problems in 15 minutes for $40 bucks. -
Oct 09, 2011 10:34:20 PM CDT
guess we can thank dk and ilm for streamlining the two face cg process
by dahveed1972
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Last week's ricin scare felt a little too forced and implausible, but tonight tied it all together brilliantly and chillingly. Walter White: "I won." Amazing finale and what an epic end for the scariest antagonist in modern television history. Face-off indeed.
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whose backyard was that in the final shot?
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You're joking, right?
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Still doesn't explain why Walt was surprised when Jessie showed up at his house, but I did predict the most likely scenario with the kid. Didn't call how Gus was going to die, but it is pretty lame that that pretty much got spoiled by Herc.
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...that the character who died tonight died. I am NOT, however, disappointed in how it happened. Great episode! And I'm sure his influence isn't dead. My prediction? We don't see Mike again until the series finale, when he shows up and puts a bullet in Walt's head.
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I guess that whole scene made no sense to you?
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Oct 09, 2011 10:45:03 PM CDT
I'm still not sold on Walt poisoning Brock. It's like what Jesse intimated, it's a common flower, and shit happens....
by glodene
I mean, Walt can be ruthless when necessary, but c'mon, poisoning a kid in order to save his own skin?
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Is all I can say right now. Walt, you stone cold mother...
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You win not having to see me on here next year, cuz you ruined the whole freaking episode lol. Grats tho, you clever prick.
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What show are some of you guys watching? I feel bad for these brilliant writers and the direction of Gilligan. No matter what idiots believe what they want.
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i don't watch the show on a regular basis and didn't recognize the backyard even though i can probably guess now based on some of the responses
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I really hope you're joking man. you guys are killing me. Whose backyard is that? I still don't think Walt poisoned the kid!
How can you be watching the same show and still be deluding yourself that Walt is just a nice guy, incapable of bad shit? Fuck, he was willing to sacrifice his little old neighbor in THIS EPISODE!
Come on guys. Get a clue. -
Is how Jane's death will come back up next season when Jesse becomes aware that Walt killed her via his deliberate non-action. I think somehow that act will still prove to be the one that is Mr. White's ultimate undoing.
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Genius. Didn't see that one.
Gus' death was fucking epic. -
Isn't the FBI all over him now? Guess he will be on the lam in season 5.
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Was crotch-searching Huell conscripted?
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So, no one has an online link, eh?
Sigh. -
It was Walts backyard.
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the pat down Huell did. Gilligan has confirmed this in an interview he did with Alan Sepinwall.
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Last week someone identified the Lily of the Valley as being the plant that Walt's gun was pointing at when he was playing spin-the-gun.
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Yes, so even though Tio was a soulless bastard, you gotta admit....the fact that a totally invalid man in a nursing home actually being able to directly take out one of the evil-est TV villains ever using the one thing that was he only thing he could use was pretty brilliant. This one should have been titled "Ring That Bell" though Face-Off was nice hahah
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...to survive after losing their heads? Los pollos.
Genius. -
Lots of love for the whole season, and an epic ending, but as a single episode it wasn't all that even with some awesome moments and lines.
Thing is, even if Walt goes back to cooking next season he can't be the kingpin Gus was because A) he has no muscle and B) he doesn't have a lab big enough to produce on an industrial scale. I mean, does no one remember how those guys were struggling to produce the first two seasons?
My guess is that next season starts several months later when Hank and the DEA have figured everything out, Walt is working at the profitable car wash and is not cooking, Jesse is playing house, and the Gus's past comes back to haunt them all. Walt won't be able to stay straight because of all the pressure and because of his pride and the fact that he's not a good guy. He'll end up turning the play to his advantage and setting himself up to finally become the kingpin. -
congrats to whoever called it on the scene where Walt spins the gun and it faces the plant. That is some amazing plotting and subtle telegraphing right there. I cannot wait for next season. Prediction for series finale - Jesse kills Walter.
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getting cockier and more prideful than ever. HE went from being terrified out of his mind and ready just to up and disappear his whole family to being totally ego tripping. His last line..."I won." was perfect Walt White material. And man is he getting bold or what? He has killed people directly or indirectly various ways throughout the show but NEVER before did he just walk up and shoot a guy in the face no hesitation! WHOA!
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Oct 09, 2011 11:08:00 PM CDT
badmrwonka, It's a common flower, and how did Walt get the kid to ingest it? - Sneak it into his Juicebox?
by glodene
To my knowledge, Walt had no viable access to Brock or his mother, other than the time he stopped by to talk to Jesse, who escorted him off her premises...Sorry, I'm just not sold on him doing it...Now if the writers reveal next season that he did, then as a token of eating crow, I'll willingly have sex with your girlfriend or Wife for a week.
Never let it be said that I'm not willin' to take one for the team...BWAHAHAHAHAHA! -
for the guy who played Salamanca. The way he opened his eyes wide when he hits the bell. Awesome sauce.
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http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/breaking-bad-face-off-say-uncle
Gilligan said it's Huell. -
The same thing happened last season when nobody could figure out if Gale was really dead or not.
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The detectives who interviewed Jesse only threatened him with FBI. After Brock tested negative for ricin Jesse was free to go.
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Oct 09, 2011 11:14:03 PM CDT
glodene, remember when Saul dropped off money to the mother?
by memento108
There's your access.
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Huell took the cigarette from Jessie at Saul's request. Saul had him do it at Walt's request. Walt probably didn't tell Saul the real reason why. He probably told him some BS about how Jessie was going to use it to kill Gus and he didn't want Jessie to get in trouble or something.
When Walt spun the gun in "End Times", it landed on the plant. That's when Walt came up with this insane plan to poison Brock with the plant and then have the ricin cig lifted from Jessie to make it look like Gus did it to get Jessie "back on track". Of course, that plan was crazy because Walt had no way of knowing exactly what Jessie would do, but it was the only real plan Walt had at the time.
As far as Walt "saving his own skin", if it had just been Walt's life at stake, I think Walt would have just left town. Walt had no way to be sure that his family would be safe unless Gus was dead. Clearly Gus has no problem taking out children and relatives. Walt didn't poison Brock for his own safety. He did it because he felt that it was the only way to get Jessie back on his side which, in turn, was the only way to have any kind of shot at killing Gus which, in turn, was the only way to make sure his family was safe. Gus did threaten to kill them, after all.
This show isn't about a good man going bad for no reason. This show is about a good man being pushed to do bad things to protect those closest to him and, by doing these things, putting himself further away from the people he's trying to protect. It's about bad deeds in general and how they are almost always the result of good intentions. Walt poisoned that kid to save his own and, in that position, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would have done the same thing. -
Oct 09, 2011 11:14:27 PM CDT
I think it's time to get a new glasses prescription, glodene
by memento108
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The last time he spun it, it pointed at the Lily of the Valley.
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Oct 09, 2011 11:20:02 PM CDT
Jesse only misplaced the Ricin cigarette. He'll accidently smoke it in the series finale.
by zillabeast
He'll smoke it as cancer finally claims Walt. That's how you end Breaking Bad.
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were literally Saved by the Bell.
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We all knew he spinned it and it landed on the plant.
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Oct 09, 2011 11:24:52 PM CDT
memento108, dude, I refuse to believe that Saul would put himself at risk by poisoning a six year old kid...
by glodene
And your EX DEUS MACHINA-like plot contrivances explaining Walt's part in Brock's poisoning are just too pat for my taste...Sorry, but until the writers/producers says otherwise, Brock's poisoning should be filed under: SHIT HAPPENS, and that Lilly of the Valley prop in Walt's backyard is just that, a coincidence the writers/producers concocted to fuck with the viewing audience/fans.
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1) In my heart I know there was a more logical, straightforward way for Walt to turn Jesse against Gus than poisoning Brock.
2) It was a pretty big leap of faith on Walt's part to assume Gus would turn up in person to silence Tio Hector "The Bellboy" Salamanca, rather than just have Tyrus (or somebody) take care of it. And it was stupid, really, for Gus to risk linking himsellf to whatever happened to Hector by showing up in person.
Gus Fring was already on the DEA's radar thanks to Hank, and there were loads of potential witnesses at Hector's facillty. Gus' decision to visit a fellow who just visited the DEA strikes me as uncharacteristically dopey.
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Mike will be recruited to Team Heisenberg. Mike will resist at first but, eventually he will get on board.
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Gus' vengeful Chilean lover.
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It becomes the biggest stroke of luck any character has encountered in any show, movie, or what have you, EVER.
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Oct 09, 2011 11:31:39 PM CDT
And remember, People, there's a big difference in murdering for self preservation and murdering in cold blood....
by glodene
Everyone that Walt murdered, had it coming (even Jesse's druggie g.f.) - After all, she was gonna fuck up his long term plan to make enough money to provide for his family, just in case he didn't make it through is battle with Cancer.
I don't think it's in Walt's character to use a six year old kid as collateral damage as a means to an end. -
You REALLY think he'd let someone else have the satisfaction? He has been waiting for a reason to kill Hector for what, 20 years? He wasn't gonna let someone else do it. And he sure as fuck made sure the coast was clear before going in, so what's the big deal?
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I was merely pointing out the fact for those confused about the season's final shot.
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Oct 09, 2011 11:39:34 PM CDT
All the Morons who were so adamant it was against Walt's moral code to poison a child last week...
by verycoldinspace
...can now form a line for their plate of steaming hot shit to eat. "The Revenge" there's a double serving with your name on it.
Christ -
The scene where Gus and Jessie visited Tio and Tio was watching the ending of THE BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI? Specifically the ending where Nicholson falls on the detonator blowing up the bridge?
Haha. Symbolism. -
Oct 09, 2011 11:50:59 PM CDT
I don't think it was unbelievable or stupid for Gus to do it himself
by american mythos
As others have said, Gus was vengeful and wanted the satisfaction of killing Tio himself -- wanted to do so for decades. Plus, he had Tyrus scope Tio's room for bugs and stand watch as he went into the nursing home. He was pretty cautious.
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http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/vince-gilligan-of-breaking-bad-talks-about-ending-the-season-and-the-series/
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It tolls for thee.
I was thinking the same thing about Bridge on the River Kwai, that it was foreshadowing.
Tons of cinema homages this season from Hank and Eye of the Tiger and FC II references
To the Rear Window homage, with a twist.
Shows how cold Walt is, that he would use the kindness of his neighbor and put her in jeopardy like that.
Next season White goes completely Black. -
Oct 10, 2011 12:12:46 AM CDT
dukeroberts, ok, just read the interview, and I stand corrected. Walt's a BASTARD!
by glodene
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The beauty of this show has been Mr. White's convincing transformation into villainy. It can be understood through his various actions that cost and risk others lives: (1) S1, kills a direct threat in the windebego with poison gas in self defense (2) S1, kills a direct threat in the basement of Jesse's house in indirect self defense (3) S2, Let's Jane, a hypothetical threat, die due to an overdose (4) S3 Runs over two drug dealers, a direct threat to Jesse (5) S3 Orders Jesse to kill Gale, a liability, but completely indirect threat (6) S4 Calls his neighor, a non-threat, and uses her life to secure his home (7) kills Gus, his man, and, Professor X, all arguably direct threats. (8) Apparently beforehand has risked a child's life to win. Looking at how far he's gone, it's not so surprising.
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Oct 10, 2011 12:15:30 AM CDT
memento108 & badmrwonka, I stand corrected, y'all was right, and obviously I underestimated how RUTHLESS, Walt has become. Damn.
by glodene
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Fuck me. And I don't want that to happen at all.
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The document being shredded by "H.T." in Saul's office was an elementary school student class schedule. Someone tweeter a screen grab. I can't seem to find it again. Maybe someone else can post a link?
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To the task of poisoning Brock for Walt.
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Check out the NYT interview w/ Gilligan that was posted a hour ago. There should be no ambiguity behind who poisoned Brock.
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Oct 10, 2011 12:26:37 AM CDT
brokenteeth73, read my 12:12:46am post. dukeroberts already posted the link, I read the interview, and now I'm forced to eat crow. Damn!
by glodene
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http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/vince-gilligan-of-breaking-bad-talks-about-ending-the-season-and-the-series/
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Sorry about the redundancy... Was the crow seasoned by Los Pollos Hermanos?
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I'm thinking 8 & 8...
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Oct 10, 2011 12:32:27 AM CDT
azultool, I wouldn't be surprised if Marcus Allen will be the first one to piss on Al's grave.
by glodene
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Mike gets to Walt first.
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Oct 10, 2011 12:37:46 AM CDT
brokenteeth73, That's a valid point, considering that Walt done screwed up Mike's livelyhood.
by glodene
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Just saying, I don't think Hank makes it out alive. Once him and the DEA ask employees of the nursing home if they witnessed anyone near Hector's room or anyone suspicious in general...it wont take Hank long to put the pieces together.
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and yes i agree Walt could easily take him out if he came between him and his freedom. Shaping up to be a staggering final season.
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Oct 10, 2011 12:45:05 AM CDT
if next season is the last then they have to start it by tying up the loose threads
by crazybubba
walt let a lot people see him at casas tranquila and at laundry company when he burnt up the drug lab. Most of the workers at the laundry company were probably illegals but you can't tell me that investigators wouldn't be able to get a hold of some of those workers because arson investigators will find the drug lab and start tracking down witnesses.
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Oct 10, 2011 1:40:58 AM CDT
Then after Marcus Allen is done pissing on Al's grave, he can go a couple of headstones down and buttfuck Nicole Simpson's corpse, just for old time sakes.
by azultool
Fuck him. They had Bo Jackson on the roster anyway.
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Just about everything I could have wanted from the series, and funniest episode ever to boot.
Would have even happily accepted it as a series finale. -
and you guys know which one Im referring to.
my thoughts: another great ep (although I got tired of lookin at the old lip quivering and moving about) but a very great ep regardless
PS: I knew that flower would be important...
SPOILER THEORY: I say Walt will die in his backyard... too many big moments has happened there and we did see a certain character die in a pool... so, RIP Walt in advance -
I'm SOOOOO glad they killed of Gus. He played his part in the series and needed to go. Some shows just keep villains around forever because the fans love them, I'm looking at you Sylar, Scorpius and Ben Linus!
It is definitely unclear where the show will be going next, but they will definitely provide closure for the crappy things Walt has done to Jessie and others. They still need to deal with injured Mike and Hank. -
...from the NY times article linked above, interview with Vince Gilligan.
SPOILER for those who haven't watched.
Q:Is (the final shot) meant to suggest the possibility that he might have poisoned Brock, or is it meant to say he definitely did it?
A.To me it is fairly definitive. But there’s the old Billy Wilder quote, which I am going to misquote, that if you give the audience 2 plus 2 and let them add it up to 4 themselves, they’ll love you forever. I abide by that.
Apparently, Glodene, you can't add two plus two. -
Um, acid had nothing to do with it. I'm confused, is there an alternate death or something?
By the way, incredible finale, incredible shot (the explosion shot), and yeah we all called the ending, but I don't see that as a bad thing. Last season will be Jesse figuring out what Walt did, like Vic v Shane in The Shield, and Hank vs. Walt and Jesse. -
Walt could have just made another batch of ricin for Brock. But that would have killed him, as was ricin's intended purpose. Instead Walt gave him the Lily so it would appear he was poisoned by ricin, but was actually given a less fatal poison so he would be more likely to survive.
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I assume he didn't expect that Jesse would have been kidnapped and brought there, he was just going to destroy things, and when he saw Jesse there, improvised?
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I'm just now realizing how perfect it is. Hector was a man who could barely move his finger, but Walt gave him the means so that he could use that finger to kill his enemy himself. I can understand why Hector liked the plan so much.
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Oct 10, 2011 2:47:37 AM CDT
Okay, if I understand right, a pic of that death leaked?
by halfbreedqueen2
How did it leak? And people assumed it had to do with acid?
Is that how this whole acid death thing happened? I've avoided these forums for a few weeks, though the Walt poisoned Brock thing a lot of people were guessing at. But a pic of that leaked, a real one, yes, no? -
...that old lady saying HI to Walt saw him... she can still talk, maybe she'll end up being his downfall?
A stretch, but she saw his face, and after the explosion, if she doesn't have full on dementia could connect 2 and 2. -
nice finale as far as resolution to the Gus story but the final scene was a big letdown...showing the poison plant as the final scene was anticlimatic...by that time pretty much everyone already knew that Walt poisoned Brock so showing that was not as big of an impact to end the season on
I was expecting the ricin laced cig to show up and someone like Walt Jr. or Skyler to die as the final scene
definitely doesn't make me dread the long wait as there was not a big cliffhanger to leave us hanging -
I put AICN on ignore after people started talking about spoiler pics last week....only to watch Cranston on Letterman, who basically spoiled the finale to any long time, devoted viewer when he talked about the last shot.
That might have defused a lot of the tension for me, but I wasn't blown away by the finale (no pun intended). It achieved various goals to resolve the plot points, but something about these last two episodes was off...perhaps a little too conventional for a show that is often unconventional. It also played for a lot more laughs than I expected. Not having Mike around also left a void.
Anyway, a couple of you...the sharp eyed ones who picked up on the symbolism of the Kwai, and the botanists, get the gold stars. The rest need to go to remedial creative writing class or give a second thought to sharing your theses with the rest of the class.
At least we're left with a somewhat clear slate while we await AMC take its sweet time and milk the last batches of the show for all they're worth. -
He took it out of the pack a few episodes back when he uncharacteristically bummed a cigarette from Jessie and smoked. He clearly was not a smoker as most people will recall from that scene.
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Oct 10, 2011 3:58:59 AM CDT
And one more thing gleaned from the NYT piece
by truxton spanglers cereal cabal
They don't go back into the writers' room until mid-November...that pretty much means it's gonna be at least summer 2012 before the next season is shown.
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the commercial breaks over the past few episodes confirmed that it will be back in Summer 2012...AMC has been showing promos where you can win a walk-on roll on the show in the final season by entering some contest
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The version I watch has no commercials ;)
It's finely distilled, with no filler or artificial flavoring (teasers and such). -
Oct 10, 2011 4:43:00 AM CDT
You cannot smoke the ricin cigarette when the ricin was in a vile inside the cig
by american mythos
People have been suggesting that either Brock had somehow smoked the cigarette or that Skylar might smoke it. IT WOULD NOT WORK! You'd light the cigarette, try to inhale, and the vile would have choked off any intake. The vile would be long discovered or the cigarette discarded before the ricin could remotely do any damage. Put that theory to rest already.
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C'mon - week on week the gang deliver a nerve-jangling, pulse-racing, roller coaster of meth-related fun. Even though Gus appeared to be walking to his doom, there's always a doubt in your mind that he might survive - even at the end. Brilliantly paced...
As for the villains for next season - the tough guys are coming. Who bankrolled the meth lab under the laundry? The Germans!
So we will see some blue-eyed, blonde-haired assassins sweep in from Europe next time with only one thing on their mind. To find out how their investment has been ruined and to track down the culprits with ruthless German efficiency... -
Put pretty red berries in front of a 6 year old without anyone stopping him and they will go straight in his mouth.
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BAHAHAHAHAHA! Ok, I'll admit it, I laughed out loud at that. Poor Tio Salamanca. It's no wonder he took the choice of offing himself along with Gus.
Was it just me or were there times THIS episode where it felt that Cranston ALMOST brought back Hal from Malcolm in the Middle?
I haven't noticed that at any other time in this whole series, but in this episode, I swear I saw and heard Hal for a few brief seconds.
Anyway - GREAT EPISODE. Thanks Breaking Bad for giving us not one but two great season finales. I say that because "Crawl Space" was good enough to stand on it's own as a season finale.
I can't wait to see how all ends up, and I usually don't get excited for television. -
"the show is about Walter White and his journey from Mr. Chips to Scarface. "
There's a few on here who don't seem to think that's the case. -
The only part of that trauma that was CGI was the little missing eye movement. The rest was prosthetics done by the same crew that work on The Walking Dead and it took them a month.
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in episodes 9,
Just rewatched that scene, Jesse passes Walt the pack and Walt takes a cigarette out on his own, smokes it half way through and then throws it away.
Just saying, it might not be Saul's guard that took the ricin. -
Huell frisks Jesse. If you've got the show recorded, watch Huell's left hand on the bottom right of the screen. He shoves SOMETHING into his jacket pocket.
Probably the cigs.
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Just seen the finale and I was right about walt giving the kid something but not poison. I know I wasn't the first but still. I think next season will pick up several months later with hank not being able to let the case go and he will keep digging until he picks something up on walt then it will be a race for the rest of the season. The DEA will just chuck up gus murder as cartel related. Just bitches.
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For my part, I wonder if there will be a cook next season, or are they done with that?
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Why feel the need to shit on it ? It was a great piece of TV, I doubt you'll find one better all year...
Let's hope they finally get the crtiical acclaim they deserve going into their final year. -
it became all idiotic theories instead of just discussing the show.
Breaking Bad isn;t even a mystery genre so it makes it even more obnoxious to read every moronic theory.
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...Hank figuring out Walt is Heisenberg and Walt having to get rid of him, capping off his full conversion to villainy. Or Hank being forced to put a bullet in Walt once his operation is busted. Or Hank becoming part of the operation after being disillusioned with the DEA.
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Once the DEA starts looking at the laundry's surveillance system, or Gus' computer, which is hooked up to it, they are going to see a lot of Walt and Jesse cooking meth ... and shooting people.
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I can't see much of a reason to cook anymore...unless the Germans come and force them to again? But that seems a bit redundant. I can certainly see the Hank vs. Walt angle but 16 episodes is a lot of time just to play that out. Jesse and Walt are pretty much done professionally at this point as long as Jesse never finds out about the berry poisioning (which he probably will but wouldn't that equal instant Jesse kills Walt scenario? b/c he was pretty dang close to doing it with what was now obviously Walt's unloaded gun).
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Oct 10, 2011 9:10:18 AM CDT
tedmcginley, you HONESTLY think as brilliant as Walt's final solution was he would just leave the surveillance system as a loose end??
by dogmatic
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No Jesse, Gus did have to go. You were fine staying with Gus. Gus was only a problem for Walt.
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Walt wasn't close enough for the walkie talkies we saw him working with, it couldn't have been a timer, was a cell phone attached and Walt was listening in the whole time? Then make a call to a second phone connected to the detonator?
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I think they were just cameras, not hooked up to video tapes. Gus wouldn't be stupid enough to leave evidence like that.
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Bit of a loose end, and a good place to bring in the next big bad.
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I think he may have been able to disable it at the laundry (prior to the shooting), but I don't think he got back into to Los Polos to get Gus' laptop. The restaurant has its own surveillance system, too. Gus was watching video from the lab right before he went to the nursing home. I do not know how much video could be retrieved from the laptop, but I would imagine it is possible to get some.
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walt didn't even trigger the bomb. the old man set off the bomb banging on the bell. taking out his enemy gus.
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I did think that but then it didn't go off until he rang the bell like 15 times. But I guess Walt did screw up the detonator in his house so that's enough of an explanation for me.
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1) because walt is broke. he wont make it with the carwash.
2) walt is bored, he can't live a 9-5 working at the car wash.
3) growing "legal" fees for cleaning up messes. like the continued maintenance cost of skylar's ex-boss TED.
4) mike. -
BB always has its humor, but this one was full of it. Walt and the door, Tio and the nurse, Tio and Hank, the bomb in the hospital, the old lady in the window, "anal warts". For what I thought was going to be a very dark episode, it was one of the funnier ones.
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Gus was clued in because it wasn't actually ringing. Plus, the scene in the kitchen showed it wasn't reliable on one click.
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Takes the cig out and puts the pack back in like what, 2 nanoseconds?
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It was brilliant how they relieved some of the unbearable built-up tension from this season with some of the funniest BB moments yet.
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mike > walt.
we've already seen this in the bar and almost every other time walt and mike stood off. how do you think mike will react when mike comes back home to learn his employer (paycheck) is gone?
next season's big bads are already on the table and in play. walt's guilt or lack thereof. Jessy's realizations of what walt has taken from him. Skylar's mouth and fears getting her (and walt and jessy) behind the 8ball with the government. Hank and his pursuit of the truth guided by walt's pride. mike's need for control of the situation. ted's disappearance. gus's need to get paid.
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He was clearly afraid of him at several points this season.
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Oct 10, 2011 10:13:35 AM CDT
Why does Walt have poison berries in his yard to begin with?
by mugato5150
I realize his daughter's still an infant and can't walk but Walt Jr's kind of an idiot. Not because of the cp, he's just kind of stupid in general. Seems like strange thing to just have growing in the yard.
I knew he was somewhat responsible by his reaction to Brock being okay. He didn't know the kid. A normal response would be, "I'm glad. You must be relieved". But he was all, "Thank Christ!" and crying and shit. He seemed a lot more emotionally invested in the kid being okay than he should have been. -
So color me stupid. I think the pool is a bigger danger to the baby than a plant up on a table.
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Walt is just a plain old average high school kid. He's not an "idiot" any more than any other kid that age. Do you REALLY think there's a danger of him just walking around putting random shit in his mouth? When you were in high school, did YOU go around eating random leaves and berries and shit?
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Really, WTF? He can't walk easily and he slurs his speech. That doesn't make him an idiot. I always thought he was quite smart. He's web savvy, at least.
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Oct 10, 2011 10:33:08 AM CDT
So Walt took the ricin when he bummed a cigarette off Jesse
by wookie_weed
At the laundry, he bummed a cig off Jesse. He could have pocketed the ricin then. So it may not have been Huell afterall!
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I find it funny how in any forum I go to people are trying to make excuses for what Walt did to the kid. At least he used a poison that would not definitely kill the kid, or maybe it was a coincidence that the same plant that may have poisoned the kid was also in Walt's yard. People still want to believe that Walt is a good person.
Walt put his neighbors life at risk, though you could say he didn't think anyone inside would kill her. He probably made the poison weak enough to just make the kid very sick. He would have never let Jesse's girlfriend choke to death if he didn't think her drug use was going to end up also killing Jesse sooner or later.
I don't think Walt will want to kill Hank. I think he loves Hank like a blood relative and would not go that far. At least not the Walt we think we know. The Scarface fully transformed Walt may have to kill him or may kill him by accident somehow. I think Walt may have to kill Mike and Jesse will be as mad about that as he is about the kid or close to it anyway. Can't believe we have to wait another year to see what happens. -
It's Telltale Heart time, and all of Walt's misdeeds will come back to haunt him.
That, and the cancer.
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Oct 10, 2011 10:35:09 AM CDT
So glad my "Gus has a twin brother" theory didn't pan out!
by wookie_weed
But I think his people from Chile (or the German bankrollers?) may make a visit.
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Unless I've got the timing completely wrong, that would have been way too soon. When Walt bummed the cigarette, that was DAYS before Brock was poisoned.
Meanwhile, Jesse explicitly says that he still had the cigarette the morning that Brock was poisoned. -
That may be the final break. Killing family, or allowing family to die, to save himself. He already put Hank in danger by sending him out of the house.
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1) I think it was perfectly in character for Walt to use Brock. Jesse is trying to find something human and normal in his bizarre existence, so that was a brilliant catalyst.
2) Gus was hands on in offing the cartel guys, slitting throats, etc. Knowing the history with Salamanca, Walt figured correctly that Gus would stick to habit.
Overall, awesome episode. -
He is a psychopathic (Heisenburg anyone?), calculating, scheming monster who uses his cancer as an excuse for totally insane behavior.
Who would go as far as organizing a hit in a hospital wing using explosives, a HOSPITAL filled with patients mind you that had nothing to do with the feud he had going on with Gus.
I know the show is called Breaking Bad and not Breaking Cookies! But Damn...Walter is Breaking Bad by the minute! It really would not surprise me If he goes full "apeshit " Scarface By the end of the series.
He uses everyone he comes across to benefit himself. From following the show and his behavior. It's not shocking to me that he poisoned that kid. He also had the next door neighbor unknowingly walk into a dangerous situation.. In the past season..He also used Hanks' love for his wife to escape being found out, Let's not forget Jesse, from day one...
That's why Mike tried to knock his teeth across the street when he tried to manipulate him against Gus. He knows how much of a wormy, dangerous mother that uses his Cancer as a means of motivation to get what he wants. -
that I wanted so badly for Walt to have NOT poisoned the kid. But I was wrong. And no-one here is an *idiot* for wanting or even assuming that until the last moment. Anyone who thinks that is beyond idiocy. You're fucking brain-dead.
What I was not wrong about though was that it was not Ricin, and that the doctor(s) at the hospital would call the authorities (it would have been a gaping hole if they had not). And I really, really thought that last shot would be the pack of smokes, somewhere.
Besides, when I guess things about this show, I WANT to be wrong. And I almost always am. That's one of the things I love about it.
I'd like to now take back my assumption that Mike will somehow be an ally. I don't think he will be. Maybe at first. But not for long.
Now I'm left thinking about the surveillance (tapes?) of the laundry, the witnesses there, the *henchmen* left behind, the Germans. The gears spinning in Hank's head. Beneke's body coupled with his debt being paid the same day.
What a finale. The wait will feel like forever. -
Open issues that could drive Season Five, and that would seem to place Walt and Jesse in real peril:
a. Los Pollos Hermanos: On the heels of all of Hank's detective work, Gus Fring's death occuring at the same time as the explosion of the laundromat should have the DEA swarming Los Pollos Hermanos in hours. There will likely be hordes of evidence in there that could expose Walt, starting with Gus's laptop and video footage.
b. Laundromat: As someone mentioned, the DEA and the FBI will interview the workers and search the remains of the site and surely will find some evidence that strange individuals matching Walt and Jesse's description were coming in out on a regular basis.
c. Nursing Home: As someone mentioned, there are several folks who should have seen Walt coming in and out in the 24 hours before the explosion.
d. Ted: The plot line with the check is anything but wrapped up at this point, and could lead right back to the family. -
that the likelihood of both the Lily of the Valley and the Nursing Home plan working was low, but I think the show credibly established that Walt had no other options at this point, or at least believed that he had no other options.
He was near crazed with fear for his life and the lives of his family, he had few or no allies remaining, and without the money to escape, he did not think he had any strong moves left.
So he played the few thin angles he had left, and he was smart enough to execute them well (the nursing home) and adapt when they fell apart (the attempt to blow up Gus in his car in the parking garage). -
Oct 10, 2011 12:45:15 PM CDT
its a perfectly valid assumption that bb is really about an evil man who because of certain events in his life finally reaches his full potential.
by dahveed1972
Its not my assumption, but is as defensible as the more obvious good man goes bad premise.
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Remember that moment between Walt and Jesse outside the laundry a while back this season? When Walt suddenly asked for a cigarette from Jesse, somewhat out of character from Walt? I think he pulled two cigs out of the pack.
Either that or he grabbed the whole package during the fight and dropped another package on the floor? Did Jesse have to pick up his cigarettes after the fight? -
Oct 10, 2011 1:03:43 PM CDT
Lot of theorizing here, but one thing I think we can be sure of is that the inspiration for this was
by dogmatic
the creators were watching Falling Down and said, hey, you know we could do this same story....but make it take place over the course of a TV show and make it like one MILLION times better. Bang....top five hour-long drama of all time.
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Spoiler: Walt wins. Hank dead, Jesse on the run. Walt alone atop a meth empire, stuck with a life sentence.
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Helluva long wait...let's hope the Mayans were wrong and we get to see the final season of BB.
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You mean 2012 right? Made me do a double take on that. But they aren't pulling a mad men on us and are not making eps for a whole year. Besides they already "talked" ($) Vince Gilligan into nearly doubling the eps for the final season and breaking them badly into a two part season where we will have to wait till 2013 for the end. Just like the Sopranos did to extend a channels most popular show ( next to Walking Dead ratings wise that is).
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Oct 10, 2011 2:01:50 PM CDT
Walt did not take the Ricin when he bummed a cig, here's why:
by walterwhite
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Oct 10, 2011 2:04:32 PM CDT
For a second, I thought they'd gone supernatural on us.
by royston lodge
When Gus walked out of Hector's room, I was afraid that the big twist was that Gus is the Devil and cannot be killed.
I think they did that on purpose to freak out the obsessive fans. They wanted us to think they were going all LOST on us. -
You people are forgetting that Jesse specifically said that he changed out the ricin cig when he bought a new pack of cigarettes that morning (the morning he confronted Walt, days after Walt bummed a smoke). He was keeping good track of that cig, as anybody would with a vial of poison in his pocket.
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So, did Skyler blow ALL the money? Like, is Walt broke now? How much money does Jesse have left?
Can they afford to retire now, or do they need to make more money, fast?
With Gus gone and the Cartel gone, will Albuquerque become a warzone as new players try to fill the vacuum?
How loyal is Mike to Gus' memory? Will he try to get revenge or will he want to help start a new lab with Walt and Jesse? -
He totally puts something in his pocket after frisking Jesse. I can't believe this is still up for debate.
And I was one of the Walt-did-it skeptics! -
You really think it took the FX team A WHOLE MONTH to prepare that single shot?
LOL, ok man. I guess you don´t know how TV works. -
Oct 10, 2011 2:15:36 PM CDT
I still dislike how convoluted Walt's plan was, if you work it through.
by royston lodge
Walt actually poisons the kid to make it look like Gus was trying to frame Walt for poisoning the kid so that Jesse would turn on Gus.
It still feels like there were too many opportunities for the plan to go FUBAR.
But I'll live. The season and the finale were awesome enough that I can overlook how precarious Walt's endgame was. -
Rutger Hauer as the head of the corporation. Peter Stormare as the security point man. And Rammstein as the hitmen. Casting issue solved.
Oh, and Schwarzenegger in some sort of cameo, Gus's clandestine Teutonic lover or some shit like that. Arnie isn't in a position right now to be too choosy about acting jobs. -
Gotta throw in that creepy bastard from Human Centipede, Dieter Laser. BOOM! There's your new Gus. Emmy nom all but certain.
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In the last few episodes she was far far far far less of a nag than she's ever been in the past FOUR SEASONS. And it works, her supporting Walt and just looking out for her family. I hope next season they keep going with that.
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...go watch Dexter if you want a show about a bad guy who never crosses the line. Once Walt had Jesse kill Gail, redemption was out of the question for his character. That was a much bigger deal that either Jane or poisoning Brock.
I do agree though that the plan was overly convolutued. Why would Walt assume that Jesse would assume that Gus would go after Brock of all people? So much had to fall into place for that to work.
As for Saul's involvement, I still don't buy it. If Huell was the one who lifted the cigs, then it was part of a side-deal with Walt. Saul is like Gail and Walt Jr. The only real good guys on the show.
I'm glad Gus is finally done. He was a great character but he should have never stayed on as long as he did IMO. Can't wait to see Mike go back to his part time job and have a chat with Huell. His loyalty to Jesse and hatred of Walt should make things interesting next season. But without his help, Walt doesn't have much of a story going forward (kingpin-wise). -
I'm right there with you--but it was a last chance, desperate GAMBLE--and I'm glad the writers knew that too. They show that they did, by Walt's last line. "I won." That made me smile.
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Oct 10, 2011 2:53:26 PM CDT
This guy at work today didn't understand how Hector's bomb was detonated
by proevad
and was saying that Walt was clearly too far away to detonate it...
I wish I had a video of the look on my face when that came out of his mouth. Wtfuckleberrycrunch, man. -
With links to Latin America from when the Nazis fled there after WW2. And this will be the midseason 5 shocker.... Gus isn't dead! Severe head would, nothing more.
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Bitch.
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Skylar's weight gain. Never explained.
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Herc, you are such a huge DOUCHBAG. Thanks for giving out the biggest detail of the whole show. ROT iN HELL ASSHOLE.
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Maybe in the final season, Hank will find out. Walt, thinking Hank will turn him in, will murder hank.. And then after Hank's dead we'll find out that Hank actually destroyed the evidence and wasn't going to turn him in at all.
I think it will definitely be Jesse that kills Walt though. -
In one of the interviews with Gilligan posted above, he said that the FX team worked on the shot for a month.
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Oct 10, 2011 3:41:50 PM CDT
never before and never again will we see the "hero" of the story triumphantly drive off in a white yaris.
by dahveed1972
just another way this show just made history.
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Oct 10, 2011 3:44:54 PM CDT
and gus is dead, folks. only place youll be seeing him is as an extra on the walking dead.
by dahveed1972
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Oct 10, 2011 3:45:23 PM CDT
I'm so glad I didn't read any Talkbacks before watching this episode
by supertoyslast
Even before the episode aired, most of the major plotpoints were guessed in this talkback. I think watching this episode after reading all of that would have seriously changed my viewing experience. But well done to everyone who was so sharp-eyed - particularly about Lily of the Valley.
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Oct 10, 2011 3:53:12 PM CDT
my (wild) guess is that someone somewhere will remember seeing a bald white guy with glasses at one of the key locations - probably the nursing home.
by dahveed1972
On the surface it will look like the cartel finally settled business with gus, allowing Hector the final satisfaction out of respect. But ther are several loose ends left for Hank to finally lock in on Walt.
I do see how Gilligan and co. can take Walt's fall even further: by somehow making Hank himself an unwilling accessory. Through his evil machinations, Walt will set up a no-win situation for Hank where he has to decide between arresting Walt and therefore destroying everyone he cares about (ill let the writers think up the details) or letting Walt go despite knowing everything.
Or maybe theyll come up with something better than that. -
Oct 10, 2011 3:54:35 PM CDT
And again, i am also relieved that i didnt see that picture or read any obvious spoilers. Kind of a dick move there Herc.
by dahveed1972
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how does that leather shoe taste?
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I don't think it's been explicitly stated what his condition actually is. That's going to be an interesting situation with Skyler.
I think Skyler's plotline may shadow Walt's. She has now 'broken bad' in a similar way that Walt first did - to protect and provide for her family. But whereas Walt has proven to have almost no limits if he's desperate enough - killing Gale rather than going to the DEA, poisoning Brock - I think Skyler will have a line that she will not cross. Which will no doubt cause friction between her and Walt.
I'm so glad that Breaking Bad will end after another 16 episodes. I can't think of another show which has maintained quality throughout and had a proper ending. Most shows are cancelled before they can have a proper ending; are dragged out too long because they're cash-cows; or just have a below-par final season. If the next season can keep up the quality and be as good as what has come before, I will be very happy indeed.
My one reservation is that it will most likely be split into two runs of eight episodes. I would have preferred one 13-episode season slowly building to a climax, rather than 8 episodes ending with a cliffhanger followed by 8 episodes building to a climax. But if anyone can do it, Gilligan can. -
To be honest, it didn't really effect the episode for me at all. I gave the evil eye when I saw it, but that's about it. Lesson learned, never look at possible spoiler pictures. Even better lesson learned? Stop posting bullshit that may or may not be true.
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Come on look at the last shot of Gus and tell me you don't see it.
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I love Breaking Bad but that felt like the perfect last episode for the show. I don't think Walt needs to be punished or redeemed. His character is who he is. Breaking Bad is a show about how a man becomes ruthless. First, he's forced to make hard choices. Second, he starts to rationalise always making the hard choice. Finally, he's made enough hard choices that he starts to get a little kick out of it. Being ruthless is now just the first tool Walt reaches for in his tool box because that's the one he mastered.
"I won." Perfect. -
Skyler kills Walt. Sorry about the spoiler folks
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to complete Walt's transition to the dark side.
1. Jesse has to die.
2. The Hank threat has to be eliminated.
3. Skylar has to realize that Walter is truly evil.
The series ends with Bad Walter triumphant and good Walter gone forever.
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So the cartel offs his gay lover, and by the way "I totally paid for this guy's entire education... because drugs." They were gay lovers and it was plain as day.
So YES Herc he did go to the nursing home to do the deed himself. In fact EVERY motivation for Gus to:
1. Distribute meth on the other side of the border from the cartel.
2. Get WAY BETTER meth than the cartel had.
3. Shut out the cartel.
4. Kill the cartel.
This is not something a man does for a "puppet" or even a good friend, he put through college. This is stuff you do for someone you were in love with.
P.S. Gus and Gale gave each other gay looks all last season. I wonder why Gale was hired. -
I thought it was fairly obvious that he broke his neck. And we won't be seeing Gus anymore -- walking out of that room and straightening his tie was the extent of his omnipotence. And it might just be me, but Gus's Two-Face FX were way better than Harvey Dent's in TDK. Great job by the FX team. Money shot of all of 2011.
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Gus "Five Moves Ahead" Fring is a very careful man who has survived many a deadly situation. I certainly get the impression he is much smarter than myself.
But. Were I in Gus' shoes I would surely have sent one of my many henchmen to dispatch Hector.
As for my "spoiler," I'm pretty sure Gus did not die via acid. If he did die via acid, I assure you it was just a spectacularly lucky guess on my part. I had no prior knowledge that Gus would die in the finale, nor did I know how he would die.
Ironically, had I received a screener for the finale and witnessed how Gus died ahead of time, I would never have made the joke. -
Revenge and the need for revenge can make people do stupid things.
I do agree it was out of character for Gus to do what he did, but not really out of character that he would want to see the life ooze out of the old guy.
Yes, Gus would have waited and made sure the coast was 100% clear and he would have made sure the DEA wasn't looking but due to the time constraints of a TV show, I didn't have too much of a problem with him showing up so soon after the visit to the DEA. -
None. It meant too much to him...he tortured the guy for years...you really think he didn't want to enjoy murdering the bastard?
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Giancarlo explains it for you.
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I don't think Gus wanting to do the killing himself has anything to do with pride or avenging his gay lover. The bottom line is wheelchair guy went to the DEA. For all Gus knew he just spilled the beans on everything. For all Gus knew, the DEA were in the process of getting a warrant to raid his business. If wheelchair guy just met with the DEA Gus knew it was on and was going to go out swinging, but first he must kill the mofo who sold him out.
He sent in a scout to make sure the DEA weren't already there. Had he not died he would have gone on the offensive against them. -
Walt was long LONG gone by the time the explosion occurred. He rigged it, most likely, to explode on like the 10th bell or something, because who knows if Hector would have to legitimately communicate in the meantime. I mean, Gus might not have gone there for a day. At least that's what I assumed. Certainly, the bell triggered the explosion, not Walt in that moment.
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It was in a pot, separate from everything else. Maybe he just bought it once he got the idea to poison Brock. It's certainly not clear that the plant at the end of Face Off is the same plant Walt points the gun at in End Times. That's my take on it. Walt sees A plant, gets an idea, and goes and buys a specific other plant. I'm sure he'll dispose of it, but he was kind of preoccupied that day.
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It's the exact same plant.
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Because when it comes to Hector, all logic goes out the window for Gus. Gus visiting Hector at the nursing home to torment him on a regular basis is not logical and it sure isn't good for business. In most gangster movies the main character has one seemingly insignificant weakness, obsession or emotional lapse that does him in. Hector was Gus'.
Hector was singing (or ringing) to the DEA and had to go. But there was no way that Gus was going to let someone else do it. -
....The amount of twats hating on BB today on the internet ("Eeeeew its so violent!" , "The acting is shit" ...Wankers the lot of em)...
I also can't think of anything more retarded than watching a random episode from season 3 and thinking you can have an opinion (or have a clue as to WTF's goin' on) .
Breaking Bad is THE best show on T.V... Period. -
No reason to think it odd that Walt would have one in his yard.
Lotsa houseplants are potentially poisonous. -
Gus is a robot?!?! What the fuck?!?!
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Thank goodness House is back...
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Oct 10, 2011 7:21:29 PM CDT
Gilligan says in an interview that the "face effect" took months.
by lenny nero
So I'd rather go off of the creator of the show than some snarky asshat online in how long the effect took.
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Oct 10, 2011 7:30:40 PM CDT
You know what I love about the reveal that Mr. White poisoned Brock?
by mukhtabi
A) It proves Walt can play the long chess game even with someone as likely to do something stupid and unexpected like Jesse
B) It allowed him to discover something Gus was not observing.
C) I don't think we're ever gonna see the moment where Walt gave brock the berries. -
Oct 10, 2011 7:58:07 PM CDT
I don't think it's a requirement to explain every plot point directly,
by bacon_aesthetic
spell every single thing out for the viewers, but I sure would love a small flashback that shows exactly how Walt, or whomever, delivered the Lily of the Valley berry to Brock and got him to eat it. I assume this happened at the boy's school, as so many people here have said after seeing H/T shredding a school schedule.
Or, maybe it's better to leave it a mystery. I don't know. It's just that it was such a tight time frame.
Knowing the masterminds at BB, I'm sure we haven't seen the last mention of Brock's poisoning. At least, I hope not.
It was still a fine episode and another triumphant season. 4 for 4 now! -
unless he was taking Economics, French and Psychology way too damn early.
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I will gladly, right now, eat crow.
I was totally wrong last week. I said Walt would never poison the kid and, lo and behold, I was wrong. I admit my error and apologize to those who knew better.
That said, I wasn't TOTALLY wrong. I knew Walt would not KILL Brock, and I was right about that. He set it up so the kid was hurt, but in a way that he knew wouldn't kill him. Or so it seems.
That said, it was an amazing finale. I absolutely loved it. Just a great show. And the TWO reveals at the end, Gus and the plant, were just excellent.
That said, as impressed as I was with the Walk/Brock/Plant/Poison ending, I still maintain that it was a bit too convoluted by Breaking Bad standards...which is what threw me off in the first place. Went back and re-watched older stuff, and the "Rycen Switcheroo" is kinda-sorta there, if you REALLY go looking. But, all in all, a bit of a stretch. But I did, very much, enjoy it. So very well done.
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How great was Gus, always so cool and calm, losing his composure at the very last second and screaming with rage before the bomb blew? And that sendoff he got walking up to the nursing home with the epic music...so good. He'll be back in flashback form, I have no doubt.
Another thing that was overlooked because of how wrapped up we all were with Gus's face being blown the hell off...
how awesome was it when Walt just murders Gus's goons and then tells Jesse "We have work to do"
The scene where they destroy the lab was awesome.
I can't wait to see where the writers take us next season, especially the eventual outcome when Hank figures shit out. -
Oct 10, 2011 10:08:08 PM CDT
Walt expected Brock to die, or at least that ricin would be blamed
by wookie_weed
Watch the scene again, Walt has a mixture of relief (that he didn't murder Brock, Good Walt) and fear (that the doctors found it wasn't ricin, or that Brock survived to tell his tale, Bad Walt). Whatever the case, Cranston deserves another Emmy for that scene, and the way he's able to switch between Good and Bad Walt so effortlessly. Amazing acting.
I'm guessing in season 5, both Jesse and the police follow leads on who poisoned Brock, and this is why Bad Walt looked worried. -
I feel bad, but I almost pissed myself laughing.
Also, agree with therawbeats. "We have work to do", followed by torching the lab... that was awesome, I really thought Walt would Break Good after that. But nope. -
Compare the scene from episode 12 with the scene from episode 13. It is the exact same plant.
And it is by no way weird that Walt would have a poisonous plant in his yard. Do you guys know how many common household ornamental plants are poisonous? Lots. That's generally not a problem, since people generally don't go around eating them. -
Oct 10, 2011 11:23:24 PM CDT
episode by episode rundown of Season 4 with Gilligan at Onion A/V club
by bacon_aesthetic
http://tinyurl.com/3ty3das
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But it makes sense. And for a man with no other options, it was a fairly predictable gamble.
1) In order for Walt's family to be safe, he needed Gus dead. In order to kill Gus, Walt needed Jesse's help.
2) The entire season has been about Gus splitting Walt and Jesse apart. Walt needed something that would definitively turn Jesse against Gus. Well...what caused Jesse to go on the warpath last time? Killing a kid.
3) Oh look...Walt just saw Jesse hanging out with a kid. If Gus were to hurt that kid, then that'd SURELY turn Jesse against Gus.
4) At this point, the only challenge is to actually hurt the kid and then make Jesse think that Gus did it. But Gus WOULDN'T do it, because Gus would have nothing to gain.
5) And here's where the real stroke of brilliance comes in. Walt makes Jesse think that it was WALT who did it. How to make Jesse think that it was Walt who did it? By making Jesse think that Brock was poisoned b ricin. Because as far as Jesse knows, he and Walt are the only people on the planet who know about the ricin in the cigarette. Steal the cigarette, and make Jesse think that Brock was poisoned with ricin.
6) Here's where the potential risk comes in. But it's within acceptable limits, since Walt knows Jesse. Make no mistake that jesse doesn't even have to pull the trigger. All he has to do is give Gus the okay to kill Walt. (And make no mistake that while Gus is smart as hell, it was a BIG mistake to admit to Walt that Jesse still isn't willing to allow him to be killed.) The REAL danger is Jesse simply changing his mind and giving Gus the okay to kill Walt. But knowing how emotional Jesse gets, Walt knows that that is pretty unlikely. If Jesse wants Walt killed, then it's VERY likely that he's going to do it himself.
7) At that point, the ONLY thing Walt needs to do is to point out that Jesse is about to kill him. That's it. At that point, he's set up a situation THAT TOTALLY MAKES SENSE (on the surface). At that point, Jesse IS about to kill Walt. Who would want that scenario to happen? Gus. All Walt has to do is say, "don't you see...he's trying to tear us apart!" And yeah...through all of season 4, Gus HAS been trying to turn Walt and Jesse against each other. More to the point, ALL of the important players realize this to some extent (Walt, Jesse, and Gus). So when Walt gives his explanation for why it had to be Gus who did it, it's VERY likely that that Jesse buys that explanation completely. Because Jesse already believes that Gus ordered the murder of Tomas, and Jesse already KNOWS that Gus wants Walt killed. On the surface, the plan makes PERFECT SENSE. The only reason why it doesn't REALLY make perfect sense is because that outcome (Jesse reuniting with Walt in order to take down Gus) really was ENTIRELY caused by the kid being poisoned. Which is why Gus would never think of doing such a thing. Walt and Gus are chess players and masterminds, Jesse isn't. The plan makes PERFECT sense on the surface, but Jesse's never going to go deeper than the surface. He's not stupid, but his also not a person with a careful and calculating mind. He acts on emotion even when doing so is irrational and detrimental. And all parties know this.
8) Walt's plan actually made GREAT sense, wasn't all that risky, and was really quite brilliant. I have less problem with what Walt did, and more problem with what Gus DIDN'T do. For example...after the failed car bomb attempt, Walt was actually able to go back and retrieve the bomb. THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED. It was stupid for Walt to attempt it, and it's even more stupid that he got away with it. If Gus had any reservations about approaching that car (which he did), then he should have had one of his men waiting around to see if anyone came around to remove the bomb. If Gus had done that (a pretty simple matter that even I'd do if I thought that my car was rigged with a bomb), then Walter White would have been shot in the face right then and there by one of Gus' henchmen.
9) I'm less concerned with the unpredictability of Walt's plan, and more concerned with how he actually WENT BACK TO RETRIEVE THE BOMB after his plan initially failed. And I'm more concerned with how, if Gus suspected any deviousness on Walt's part, why Gus simply didn't have someone there to shoot Walt in the face if Walt happened to show up. But the actual plan of turning Jesse against Gus? THAT was actually pretty fucking brilliant. It was also pretty low-risk. Most of the risk was contained within what happened AFTER Walt's and Jesse's reunion. -
First letter "S" second letter "U" third letter "C" fourth letter "K".....i was rolling off the sofa laughing through that whole scene.
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The centerpiece of her living room, lol. She's a fucking kook.
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That shit was hilarious.
Particularly when you see it from outside the scope of it obviously being part of a plan.
The DEA doesn't know shit. All they know is that an important former cartel member demands a meeting with the DEA, and then the DEA makes sure to take that shit very seriously. The meeting happens, and then all that the guy says is "suck my dick" and "fuck you".
If this shit were real, people would be pissed off at the old guy for wasting their time. But I guarantee you, half those guys would also secretly be laughing their asses off at that angry old cripple with (apparently) humongous balls.
That scene is funny as hell.
And it's even funnier if you try to forget what you know and pretend that you don't even know that that scene is part of some bigger plan. It's already funny. But it's even funnier if you think of it as just some bored old crippled cartel member who one day totally decided to fuck with the DEA just for shits and giggles. -
Oct 11, 2011 12:49:05 AM CDT
The scene with walt and jesse on the roof of the parking garage
by the_dull_greenwood
I havent seen this brought up but i distinctly heard breathing during what looked to be a point of view shot of someone watching their victory conversation unfold. i have watched this scene numerous times and hear breathing every time. this is my first aicn post by the way and i cant believe it wasnt in the doc back.
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I didn't hear the breathing, but I thought that perspective indicated someone was watching. Of course, it could just be stylistic.
Watching it again now... I can't hear the breathing. Are you sure it's not you heavy breathing, dude? :-P -
just watched again, it is there. he inhales just as jesse steps away. my girlfriend also heard it, turn up the volume and you can hear two breaths.
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sounds like a bald, injured man to me. two angry, revenge filled breaths and a low mmm thing.
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Yes.. But who were those guys that tased Jesse and forced him to reveal the lab? FBI or undercover cops? They were sent by somebody to nab him...so obviously whoever finds out that they are missing are gonna know, Jesse is the guy. Especially after their burned corpses are discovered under the laundry place by detectives. Good thing Walt gave him that rent-a-car at the end. Jesse is gone. OMG can't wait for season 5, July is too damn far away. If I didn't know they were gonna do a season 5 I would be perfectly satisfied with this conclusion. But still, there are many questions to be answered.
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Oct 11, 2011 1:27:42 AM CDT
Anybody notice the severed leg falling from the ceiling after the explosion?
by marvelousd
You gotta love their attention to details.
I also think Gus's death scene has gotta be one of the most memorable death scenes ever anywhere. The fact that he tries to put himself back together, straightening his tie, etc, as if he's only become a bit disheveled by the explosion - just too brilliant. He dies as he lived: with his unconscious screaming for total control. -
Did you happen to re-watch that scene when Walt frantically searches thru Jesse's cigarette pack to see if he had used the ricin on Gus yet? I remember it, but forget what episode it was...perhaps he took the cig out of the pack then, and turned another one upside down, without us the audience even seeing it. I dunno, im just reaching for clues. How could the ricin just disappear out of the pack? Anybody?
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You mean the guys who called Gus after they kidnaped Jesse? And then showed up in the lab owned by gus with Jesse after they kidnapped them? I don't know either but one this is for sure. They didn't work for Gus...........
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Yes probably the greatest demise ever on film im my opinion. And yes I say film because BB is not just a tv show. Every episode is treated with the thought and care of a cinematic level. The only thing that kinda makes it non realistic is the fact that the explosion was powerful enough to blow the door off its hinges, but Gus remains standing. My only guess would be that he tried to dodge the blast at the last second, turning away to his left...and in doing so was out of path where the most force was concentrated. But still, a truly epic death, and how real did that shit look? I literally lost my breath.
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I didnt even catch that phone call...damn. it makes sense now, they were just getting him to start the new batch. wow I feel dumb.
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Oct 11, 2011 1:58:36 AM CDT
@dull_greenwood, I must be deaf, I can't make out any breathing
by wookie_weed
I'll trust your ears though, which means Mike is back.
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Oct 11, 2011 2:02:36 AM CDT
Also, Mark Margolis (Tio Hector Salamanca) deserves an Emmy
by wookie_weed
How he was able to convey so much despite the restrictions of being a near-vegetable... brilliant acting!
So glad the last few episodes returned to the dark humour which made the first couple of seasons so memorable. Much of season 4 lacked that humour. -
Sort of Ghost Rider meets Two Face. As for me, it took me out of the moment and actually seemed a bit comical. Oh well.
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I've watched the scene several times, with the volume turned up as high as it can go, got several other people to watch it.... and the breathing you hear is Walt & Jesse. Because it's blatantly obvious the sound mic is still on Jesse and Walt during the long shot.
Watch the scene... no, listen to the scene again. There is no third person breathing heavily in the shadows. -
well which one is it? no breathing or a mic still being on from the last shot? i hear what sounds like breathing, if it is jesse breathing then so be it but the sound combined with the POV shot had me thinking it was mike. I absolutely hear something wookie, i have also brought it other people to make sure im not going crazy. I even make sure to hold my breath. there is clearly an inhale sound right as jesse steps away.
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Man, I LOVE this show - but I thought his swansong tuck of the tie with half his face blown off was absolutely hammy and unneccesary, had he just stumbled out and collapsed then maybe... but it just felt so cheesy and beyond unrealistic.
Gus was cool but they shoehorned in a big "cool"moment for him there. It took me right out of the episode and was borderline comical - and not in a good way. -
Doesnt seem like his style. He could just ask Jesse what happened or what they talked about or whatever he wanted to find out by watching them. Plus after they talk Walt drives down there and im sure he would have noticed mike.
I think that pov was gus' car. -
Oct 11, 2011 8:10:30 AM CDT
Next season's opener, Gus Fring gets his Harvey Dent on and flips a peso to make his business decisions...FACT!
by dogmatic
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Oct 11, 2011 8:15:23 AM CDT
"What kindofa man talks to the DEA? Hmm? NO kindof man." Great line with him dropping his accent guard.
by dogmatic
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Oct 11, 2011 8:15:23 AM CDT
"What kindofa man talks to the DEA? Hmm? NO kindof man." Great line with him dropping his accent guard.
by dogmatic
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Oct 11, 2011 8:16:33 AM CDT
And when he slowly looks him up and down and says "A rata cripple...is that how you wanna be remembered?" EPIC....Ok, Im done...man, 2013 is a loooong way away.
by dogmatic
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http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/vince-gilligan-of-breaking-bad-talks-about-ending-the-season-and-the-series/
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Gus would kill Hector himself. This is/was well established early on in the season. There is no way he would have a lackey do it. It meant too much to him.
Now you could make an argument that it was pretty convenient Walt happened to stumble upon Gus' only weakness/blind spot--that being the revenge he was determined to take firsthand upon Hector--but it worked for me.
I also loved the callback to Jesse's description of Gus as "The Terminator" during Gus' final scene--which must rank up there with one of the best reveals in tv history. -
At the end of ep12 I thought that Gus had Brock poisoned. But after a little thought, I realised that to maintain Walt's trajectory of doing progressively worse things each season, Walt had to be responsible. If I'd watched 12 and 13 back-to-back it's possible that the final reveal would have come as a surprise to me. Which would have been stunning.
I wonder how Walt administered the poison? Brock's going to deny eating any berries when he comes round. Will Jesse really take that as a kid not wanting to get into trouble, or will it start him thinking? Walt can't have just given the kid something to eat himself because Brock would be able to give a good enough description for Jesse to identify Walt. -
With Gus gone and the Cartel damaged/destroyed, there's going to be a vacuum - which something will have to fill. For Walt to complete his 'Mr Chips to Scarface' trajectory, he's going to have to rise to the top. I don't really see Jesse and Walt building an empire from scratch over 16 episodes. But nor do I see Walt overcoming another 'boss' figure, since that would repeat what's gone before.
My guess is that the German conglomerate will bankroll Walt - making him the new Gus. We will then see Walt doing some truly terrible things - like killing Hank or Jesse. Surely his cancer must come to the fore again as well.
Just as interesting for me, is what Skyler's story is going to be. She's going to have to make some tough decisions. I'm betting that, unlike Walt, there are lines that she will not cross. -
Walt's cancer will relapse, forcing him to invent another money making scheme using his chemistry expertise. Perhaps another type of synthetic drug like LSD? That would be cool and Hunter S. Thompson-esque. But it wouldn't work LSD just isn't as profitable or addictive as Meth. Mabey Walt will just start his own Meth empire, now with Gus out of the picture. And the final episode, Hank figures it all out, and Walt blows up his lab and takes out Hank and himself. That would be my guess...but ofcoarse Vince Gilligan will have something much more ingenious up his sleeve.
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The only way I see Walt rising to kingpin status is with Mike's help. I'm sure most of the people in Gus' organization didn't even know who Gus was. With Mike's knowledge of the business details, Walt can make a seamless transition. There's no other path that makes any sense.
That is, until Mike has a talk with Jesse and Huell. -
Another great moment in the season finale'.
The bomb-bag magnetizing against the door! The way Walt plays off it, like other moments similar to this-is just classic!
I was laughing...out loud even. -
Is he still in Mexico? I really wish he had been in the finale at some level.
Im really curious about next season since the majority of the series has been focused on Gus. -
Saying that Gus would or wouldn't kill (the bell guy) is overlooking a key element to what Walt did.
He found Gus's human weakness.
Even Gus "5 moves ahead" Fring couldn't resist the urge to kill the man who killed the love of his life. -
Gus may be dead, but I doubt he is gone. Gus was a meticulous man who planned multiple steps ahead and covered every contingency. The Hector gambit was probably Walt's only opportunity to get Gus, so in a sense Walt lucked out because Hector was the one and only thing Gus was personal about and therefore had a blind spot that could be exploited.
Gus must have had contingencies that were to go into effect upon his death. Walt and Jessie may find themselves dealing with this immediately. -
Lucas also said he had all the story mapped out and ready to shoot 12 Star Wars movies. We all know how that turned out.
So Gilligan says ONE SINGLE shot, which lasts about 3-4 seconds, took a whole month for the FX team to complete?
Well, sorry guys. I just don't buy it! Bite me. -
one week Gus can can sense danger like he has fucking extrasensory perception and the next just stroll on into an old peoples home to murder a guy who he knows has just been with the cops in what he believes is an attempt to rat him out.
Not a show ruining flaw but it seemed very silly to me.
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Oct 11, 2011 3:47:47 PM CDT
lived the death scene. realism has taken a back seat to artistic license several times on bb.
by dahveed1972
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Was when Walt called Walt Jr Jesse when he was half conscious.
Seems a strange thing to do if they're not going to use it next season. I think that one word could be all Hank needs to put it all together.
It's going to come back and bite Walt on the arse. -
Gus sensed that being lured to the hospital was a trap after his talk with Jesse, but he was willing to risk going to the nursing home (even after having the place swept)? I can see why this bothers Herc. How could he not see Walter's fingerprints all over the ploy - especially after Hector had just been to see Walt's brother-in-law?
I'm willing to overlook it, because Gus had to die in some way in the season finale and it was a fantastic way to go. 'He had to kill Hector himself' is good enough to excuse him going to the nursing home, even if it doesn't excuse the sloppiness of the usually meticulous Gus of not taking every possible precaution. -
Because he could never make eye contact with Gus?
There's no way he'd have let anyone else do it.
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Jonathan Banks was listed in the opening credits and seeing that made me happy. Clearly, that was not to be, or was it...
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I think the reason the business with the ricin cigarette bothers some people is because it was built up so much throughout most of the season. It was clearly going to be a major plot point. The final reveal of the Lily of the Valley will make most people ask 'so what happened to the cigarette?' So to have a significant part of the story triggered by this plot device happen offscreen can be disatisfying.
Walt's plan seems more like something created by a writer than a ploy by a desperate man. It's a smart piece of plotting, but largely because a writer can control all of the elements involved in a way which Walt could not - so many things were likely to go wrong. This may seem like a strange criticism for a scripted TV show, but the best stories should feel natural rather than 'written'.
Personally, I don't mind so much. It all just about makes sense, if you force credulity a little. My immediate reaction was 'that was brilliant'. That has been tempered slightly by dissecting the plot and the feeling that much of what happened in Face Off was inevitable given the previous trajectory of the show. The ending of season 3 hit me a lot harder.
But Breaking Bad is still the best show on TV. Roll on the final 16. Please let new episodes start in 2012... -
The way 'look at me' played out was the best part of the Gus/Hector story. When Gus looked up and Hector *was* looking at him - amazing.
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that's how Walt will die and Jesse will be the one to do it. No one will be the wiser, a man with cancer that works a lot suddenly becomes ill.
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Oct 11, 2011 6:05:51 PM CDT
Haven't read the whole tb so sorry if someone made this connection with last season
by tbransonlives
Walt did a total 180 when it came to children. Last season when he saw the news report about Andrea's brother being killed he ran down the suspects and now he's become the one using kids. Great storytelling and makes you realize how far the character has gone now.
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Walt didn't run down those suspects because he felt bad for the kid, he did it to preempt/save Jesse. Jesse is his family and everyone else can go fuck themselves.
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I loved it.
Gus looked like a freaking terminator after the bomb went off. I wonder if it was a slight homage to the way Arnold looked in the Terminator films after getting shot up and having his chrome endoskeleton exposed? Gus is rather machine-like in the way he goes about things. He seems to be able to kill without any conflicting emotions holding him down, just like a terminator would be able to do. Lest we forget that Aliens ("where you want it?") line that was used earlier in the season with the forklift and barrels? I think maybe some or one of the writers/producers might be Jim Cameron fans.
Great use of that damn bell that Hector has to ring (not just as a trigger to the bomb, but the whole thing with the nurse at the retirement home using the letter chart to help Hector express himself and write a message to someone).
As for criticisms of Gus letting his guard down with the trip to the retirement home, I think it worked just fine. Even the coolest most restrained cats like Gus are going to eventually have something set off their emotions. Hector killing Gus' partner years back was enough to make him loose some of his rationality around Hector and the other Salamanca people (Tuco).
Also, Tyrus did perform a pretty damn thorough sweep of the place, and then Gus also had Tyrus go in again and call out to the car on the cell phone to let Gus know things were all clear. Then there was also a second bodyguard with Gus in the car. I don't think it really looks like Gus was not cautious. That is how life can be, you can take all the necessary precautions and still overlook something. Walt exploited the one thing (metal of the wheelchair) that made his bomb assassination attempt work.
As for that bomb... Walt carrying it around throughout the episode made me start to think that he'd eventually end up blowing up the Pollos Hermanos restaurant. While I loved the finale and Gus death we got, I'd have killed to see Hank's reaction upon learning of Pollos Hermanos being blown to bits. -
Hank was right all along and he will most likely be back in action with the DEA again after they learn of the demise of Gus and the laundry burning up.
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Oct 11, 2011 6:37:55 PM CDT
I see it as both protecting Jesse and that being his breaking point with Gus
by tbransonlives
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Agreed.
That face he made right before he started ring the bell was insane.
Also, Emmy for Gustavo Fring as well.
Hell, even the guy that played Tyrus was damn good. He didn't have many lines and conveyed an amazingly creepy and dangerously threatening vibe. Dude was fucking scary. -
I liked that Walt Jr. had the line "tell dad uncle hank was right." I'm looking forward to seeing Hank in his "gimp-mobile" putting the pieces together next season.
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I think that Gus's need to kill Hector himself is poignant: in the ruthless showdown between two calculating and logical nemeses Gus and Walt, the reason Walt prevailed in the end was because he was able to see past his emotions (his love for his family; see his willingness to expose Hank to harm with the Hector ruse at the police station) more than Gus could (his vengeance against Hector).
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So glad that none of it was spoiled.
Gus's death made me want to scream HOLY SHIT but I was in way too much shock... I thought I was going to throw up. -
there's nothing like it in any other TV show
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TOTALLY believable. Guys, it's not like they do this all on set. It's done in shop by the FX team. And it was 5 hours to make a cast of his head. And CGI was used, but it was blending a model to the actors face and then cgi-ing the movement of the eye.
Also, I can see where people are a bit unsatisfied that it's a "neat" conclusion, that Gus fell into the trap. But I think the show did a good job... he sensed something was wrong at the end of End Times, but here, with going to the feds and all that, he didn't see how the pieces fit together. So he probably assumed that with a huge sweep being done of the room twice, that it was best to kill since he saw him as potentially a threat, like in old age after being tortured by Gus, he was gonna rat just to get back at him. I can buy it. And then of course, when Gus decided it was time to end it, he HAD to be the one to do it. That made total sense.
Now to the question of, well A LOT had to happen JUUSSSTTT right. But that's true of real life to. When it gets tiresome in shows is when writers use it all the time, and things always happen to end up JUUSSSTTT right. But Breaking Bad doesn't do that. In fact, Walt had JUST failed and this was a backup plan made-up on the spot. I bought it. It's rare that Walt's first ideas work out (including the whole get into meth to support my family thing).
Basically, my opinion is, in real life lots of extraordinary things happen that had to happen JUST as they did for a very specific outcome. The reason this can be annoying in fiction is when it's constantly used as a crutch over and over to get a character out of a tough situation. Breaking Bad does not do this. The Shield, as great as it was, sometimes ventured into this territory. LOST did it all the time and used the "we're a supernatural show" as an excuse.
But anyways... -
...is how did Walt get hold of the ricin cig? But we'll find out I'm sure. The one problem I have with the Huell theory is that a) Huell would have had to either swap packs, in which case there's a potential Jesse would realize it wasn't the exact same pack since how could you get the brand/amount still in it/folds and creases exactly right?
And b), if he didn't switch em, and just removed the ricin cig, well, no way he fucking did that while frisking him.
And the theory about Walt in episode 9 - doesn't make sense. Walt wasn't planning anything with the kid at that point. The whole kid thing came about AFTER crawl space when he realized he couldn't just flee. -
Well, not "fine" with that, but that sure would've been preferable to the risky shit that he was forced to do. The only reason that he couldn't make his family disappear is because Skylar gave the money to Ted.
As far as the Ted angle, I'm sure that'll have consequences. But personally, I wouldn't be terribly upset if that's never mentioned again. He tripped on his rug and broke his neck. So presumably, it'll LOOK like he tripped on a rug and broke his neck. The only possible thing that is likely to give it away as more than just a simple common household accident is the mailing of the check. And...HOPEFULLY Saul's henchmen were smart enough to send the check off soon enough so that it couldn't be determined that Ted died BEFORE sending the check.
But...that's probably not what happened, and I'm fully expecting someone to notice that Ted sent the check to the IRS AFTER he died. -
But brilliant, brilliant episode.
Whilst I was thinking that Walt likely poisoned the kid, I wanted to be wrong, as my wife said to me “he is meant to be the good guy, just taking action against the cartel guys for his family, he can’t have done it”. But as soon as we saw him put the innocent neighbor in danger we both looked at each other and knew he poisoned the kid. The scene at the end whilst not shocking was symbolic and important for what the show is all about.
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Oct 12, 2011 8:19:37 AM CDT
I just realized that the finale episode title is "Face Off". Guh...!
by prof. pop-cult
My god, I literally shrieked when the camera pan revealed what happened to half of Gus' head. That image is so goddamn disturbing. Two-Face in The Dark Knight was nowhere near as grotesque -- imagine if Christopher Nolan had managed to push that make-up effect to such a disturbingly real level.
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Oct 12, 2011 8:33:28 AM CDT
Also, notice there were a lot of long-running, close-ups on Gus' face in the episode...
by prof. pop-cult
And I think a lot of those shots were angled upon the left-side of his face. Vince Gilligan is a genius, subconsciously setting things up for the horrific moment.
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I saw a repeat of the pilot episode after WALKING DEAD last year, and slow but surely caught up on the entire series, spending yesterday glued to my DVR marathoning this season. I know it's been said a lot, but my god... what a show.
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Is how next season starts. We don't know what was said to Jesse to convince him to betray Walt and cook for Gus.
Are we going to find out more about this mysterious multinational that funds the laundromat and the chicken franchise.
Perhaps they'll contact Walt with an offer he cant refuse.
And now bitter interminable waiting for next season.
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i kinda coasted along the first season or so, but i really want to suck it in in all its 720p glory
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Oct 13, 2011 5:39:25 AM CDT
I don't know if this was pointed out, but the music for Gus's walk toward death was...
by american mythos
... called Goodbye by Apparat, from the album The Devil's Walk. Christ, he really was like the fucking devil. Genius song choice.
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Huell lighting up a cig.
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