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MATRIX 2 & 3 notes...
Hey folks, Harry here. Over at the actual MATRIX OFFICIAL WEB SITE they are reporting that any stories or plot synopsis that you are bumping into or seeing popping up on the net are complete and utter malarky. They say that there are no scripts in circulation, as the scripts are not FINISHED YET and until they are... it's impossible that there are scripts circulating.
Alright... So is this bullshit? No. The moment that this script hits Lorenzo's desk... We'll be getting it. And if it just ends up on Alan's desk... we'll get it. We won't be spoiling the damn thing, but like we did with MATRIX... about TWO YEARS before it came out... I will be reviewing it and telling you whether it will tear your eyelids off and put you on a ventilation machine... or if it'll just put ya to sleep. Currently... It's not sitting on Lorenzo's desk, at least according to the special AICN LORENZO CAM that feeds live images every hour on the hour back to Geek Headquarters. God I love my nanobots.
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I'm definately looking forward to your script review, Harry! Hope it comes soon! Any chance a mortal man like me would be able to get the script?
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I liked it but I definately don't get why so many geeks left the theatre foaming at the mouth like it was the greatest thing ever put on film. The fight scenes were nothing you can't see in a thousand Hong Kong action pictures and the special effects were just a retread of that Gap ad. I'll go see the sequels but I'm not gonna cream my jeans over them.
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I'd rather read an "it ain't happenin' yet" item any day than the tabloidish pap that poops out of otherwise respectable sites at times. Sci-Fi Wire has been acting badly of late, basically complaining that no one returns their phone calls (surprise!). Meanwhile Harry just keeps plodding along, getting the stories right. (fer instance how "Stax" added a script review a month or so after Harry's - both quality reviews, but the timing is disparate). (BTW- sorry I can't help out Moriarty - but the only old thing around here operational would be a big step down - I don't even think the poor thing could run a modem).
(Also BTW - may have been one of few to catch Harry on Roger Ebert's show -great 3:30 a.m. slot in LA market! But enjoyed the "cult" show - but know it's a topic for a full semester, not a half-hour. Ebert still seems far too smug for the man who wrote "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls")
Later! -M.
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Hey back to the future 2 and 3 were pretty decent in their own right. I think they
probobly made them together because it took them so long to have everyone free for the second one. Its not easy to get Mike Fox to stop twitching from his parkansins and Chris Lloyd to stop twitching from well being Chris Lloyd. -
Feb 03, 2000 5:34:27 AM CST
I hope they don't get any trouble from Greg Morrison and his law
by dead eye
I really hope the next two are as awesome, or even more, as the first. Does anyone know about what I said in the subject, I sent it to Harry.
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The reason folks like me are so big on The Matrix is that the movie was such a kick-ass amalgamation of disparate influences. Yeah, the action was based on Hong Kong flicks, but most kung-fu flicks have jack shit for plot. Matrix, on the other hand, had a very smart premise, and plenty of twists and turns to keep things moving. Great special effects, hot chicks in skintight leather, robots based on squid-motifs...what's not to like? I went in expecting a mediocre movie at best, and left knowing that The Matrix was the most exciting movie I would see all year. That's what the hype is all about, Charlie Brown. ******* Sidebar: I don't know whether that bullet-time technology was pioneered first for The Matrix or for those GAP ads, but regardless of who invented it, it was used to amazing fucking effectiveness in Matrix. It added major punch to the action scenes in my opinion. To suggest that it was just a "retread" of the GAP ad is cynical foolishness, as if once a special effect is used once it should be taken out of circulation. C'mon.
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Mrs. Nesbet....what a guy/gal. Wow. I'm impressed. That Michael J Fox gag. Fucking hilarious. A real rib-tickler. Could well be the funniest thing I've read all year. Nothing like a bit of a joke at the expense of someone who is suffering quite severely and will only deteriorate as time goes by. Man, I'm wiping the tears of laughter off my face. How clever, witty and incisive of you. Oh, by the way - 'parkansins'?
You do mean Parkinsons right? At least have the dignity to learn how to fucking spell before coming up with a comment as vomit-inducingly tastless as that. Oh, and as an afterthought, grow up. Splinter out. -
Dead Eye, you mentioned a "Greg Morrison", but I think you meant "Grant Morrison". Morrison, of course, is a well-known comic book writer, and I remember reading an interview where he alleged that the premise behind The Matrix was cribbed from his comic series "The Invisibles". He was pretty pissed about it, seeyin' as how the Wachowski's are rolling in dough now and he's making lowly comic wages in relative obscurity. I've never read The Invisibles, so I don't know if the accusation has merit or not. You suggested he's suing the Wachowski Brothers, Dead Eye. Is that right? I'll be curious to see what comes of it, if so.
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And secondly, if you'd ever read the Invisibles, you'd see that his accusation of plagiarism is totally correct. Seems to me that if a writer tells a story starting in 1994 and a movie released in 1999 tells the same story over with some name changes, then the writer has a strong case...
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Wow, I induced vommit. Bonus. Thanks for the spell check man. I wouldn't really say it was the funniest thing of the year though...Well unless your Chris Lloyd. That guy finds ANYTHING amusing...anyone see Camp Nowhere?
Splinter in, ouch, damn splinters -
The Matrix was not a very good film. It had superb special effects, but that doesn't make up for the poor performances, the ridiculous dialogue, and most of all, its' complete lack of originality. There was no original vision in that film whatsoever. It was the product of some "fanboys" who said "this is cool- let's steal it" and "that's cool- let's steal that too". There is a difference between creatively combining pre-existing elements and simply stealing other's ideas to compensate for your own lack of vision. Careful viewing of the Matrix exposes it to be the latter.
Aside from that, it also stars Keanu Reeves- probably the worst actor currently working in film. I predict that the sequels to the Matrix will be about as succesful as the next Star Trek movie. Place your bets now. -
Some people are IMPOSSIBLE to impress. Tell us master, what movies are worthy of your royal stamp of approval? Please tell us, please. I'm sure we all await your response with trembling anticipation.
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Er, Dark City came out well before the Matrix and had an incredibly similar premise and ending. I asked Proyas why Andrew Mason would produce both films, considering the uncanny similarities (they even shot on the same stages), and he was diplomatic. Ah, the Hollywood more-producers-than-cast gravy train.________Also, you're kidding yourselves if you think that the bullet-time effect, previously called the 'frozen moment', hadn't already been done to death. Maybe in America it had only really been seen in Gap ads and completely gratuitously in Lost in Space. Overseas it had become the 'Morph' of the nineties, appearing in car ads, music videos, human body - type documentaries and so on. That's not to say it wasn't appropriate, though. I liked that there were solid story reasons for using many of the effects. Come to think of it, the sex scene in Fight Club pushed that particular effect even further.
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Feb 03, 2000 8:14:35 AM CST
What it is that makes the Matrix brilliant, even if it is shallo
by mickey finn
1) Cod-philosophical references. The most banal philosophical questions (is reality real? oh no!) posed with the style and ham of a fortune cookie, or the 'Ah, Glasshopper' guy in the old Kung Fu TV show. This isn't a BAD thing (as numerous pseudo-intellectuals would have you believe) - it's STYLISH! 2) Cod-literary references. Lewis Carroll references scattered over the script with all the subtlety of a sonnet by Howard Stern. Names (Neo, Trinity) that invoke such broad religious and classical references that they can't help but look profound. Again: profound? no. stylish? YES. 3) KUNG-FU! This is where it begins to get really good. I don't care if it's been done better in a million Hong Kong movies, I want THIS Kung Fu, being done by THESE actors, in THESE cool clothes, with THIS kickass dialogue. 4) BIG GUNS My personal favourite. In these moralising, whining, post-Columbine 'oh my god this society is too violent' times, I like to see REALLY BIG GUNS being used by people wearing BLACK, expertly edited. That lobby scene from the movie, with cartwheels and all, is the equivalent for me of having sex with the screen. I'm about to be flamed to hell for saying that, but frankly I don't care. Cod-philosophical + cod-literary + kung-fu + fucking big guns equals my perfect idea of two hours in the cinema. Thank you, Wachowski brothers! Please work your magic again!
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First I might as well say that The Matrix is one of my all-time favorite movie. And for all you consider writing "are you on crack", don't bother. This is my personal opinion, you have yours. We all have different tastes. However, I can't understand how anyone can say that the performances were bad. No, they did not act mentally or physically handicapped and they were no historical people (the requirement for winning an Oscar nowadays, it seems), but they acted the way they were described in the script: Very cool. Whoever thinks Keanu, Carrie-Anne and Lawrence's acting in this movie suck, could you please tell me how the acting should have been handled? Oh, and one final word: I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE SEQUELS TO COME!! The Wachowski brothers have only done two movies so far, Bound and The Matrix, and I think both are really, really good.
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Which Kung Fu movies have YOU been watching? If you haven't seen anything made later than 1983, maybe you can be forgiven for saying that most of them have shitty plots. Have you seen BURNING PARADISE? or DR. WAI AND THE SCRIPTURE WITH NO WORDS? or KING OF BEGGARS?
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Bond, the rabbit movie which plays in the Oracle's apartment is "Night of the Lepus", a 1972 sci-fi flick starring DeForest Kelly and Janet Leigh. The plot centers around mutated rabbits who run rampant in the southwest. Just a little tidbit for you.
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Don't be such a pedant, dude - you're really splitting hairs. Speaking of splitting HARES, that Night of the Lepus was on cable the other night. Whadda stinker!
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Geez, can't we all just get along? Sure, they stole the Mtrix from Grant Morisson lock, stock, and barrel...but the Matrix is a neat little film and I'd like to see decent sequels. Perhaps they can work it out that Morisson gets to write the 3rd installment...or the Wachowski's have to finance an INVISIBLES movie for penance..?
I can't believe more people aren't familiar w/ the Invisibles and, in turn, as outraged as Morisson himself... -
I enjoyed the Matrix, really. This doesn't mean I have to kiss it's ass and make ridiculous claims praising the movie. If you think the Matrix was original, then the simple fact is that you don't watch enough movies. Being done well, and "original" are two different things. First, it was earily similar to Dark City, from the "Question reality" motif (which is hardly new), to the 3 mysterious guys in dark suits.
Second, why is it that almost all of the criticism levied at TPM applies to the Matrix, but the same people love the Matrix and don't like TPM. A) It seemed made for a sequel. In fact, BOTH movies were made to be sequels and the endings of each film reflected that. B) Wooden acting. This applies to both movies, unfortunately. Stylistically, it was more appropriate to the Matrix, but Keanu is bad, always bad. C) Reliance on F/X. Both utilized f/x in new and interesting ways so this largely an unfair criticism of BOTH movies.
Overall, I enjoyed TPM on more levels than the Matrix. The Matrix's corniness and ubercool do not hold up so well after repeated viewings. TMP, on the other hand, seems to become more and more comfortable. By the time TPM becomes as old as the original SW, it will have become inscribed on the culture as much as the first film. -
you guys have got to help me! I keep seeing adverts for rubber f***-me dolls,amonst the talkbacks... what the hell is going on?!!! What's the story?..let me in on the joke...now I've heard of following the white rabbit, but this is kinda warped....
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while not wanting start another one of those ridiculous "your country sucks - we rule" talkbacks, DarkHorizons is reporting a rumour that the Matrix maybe moving to a London studio either Pinewood or Leavesdon. Given the strength of the pound, that's not an economically prudent decision, but on the other hand those studios spaces are fucking HUGE, indicating that these movies will have ridiculous budgets and will use those studios to their fullest potential! Anyway that would certainly heal some wounded pride over losing Eps II & III, but it'll probably turn out to be bollocks. After all, is Keanu really going to put up with 6 months of wet weather and warm beer? He's a surfer after all.
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Fight Club was better...
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Jonah, if you think Keanu Reeves has done a "good job" in any movie, I pray to Odin you never learned to write. If you did, that cheapens the whole enterprise of writing. The only times Reeves doesn't make me want to vomit blood are when he's playing himself in unbelievably stupid movies (Bill&Ted), or when his atrocious acting is used with a bathetic (read your dictionary) character (Don John in "Much Ado"). You cannot honestly tell me that you can stop from laughing out loud when you see him in the subway scene: "ow, I've been very badly hurt!" - "Watch me sneer as I stand up unexpectedly" - "Oh, now for a bigger sneer while I flex menacingly and shake this dust off" - "Now I'll go all cool and blank-faced while I call him on" - "Now watch me bare my teeth while head butting him!" The scariest thing of all is that he nearly got a degree in theatre from a backwoods Canadian arts school... the good news is, they wouldn't let him graduate. HAHAHA!
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Morrison himself has even said that he liked the execution of the film (a point I don't agree with), but to quote Paul Weller, that's not the point, is it?. It just pisses me off to see everyone and their mother talk about how innovative and daring and thought-provoking this thing is when we've already seen the story of King Mob and Jack Frost...I mean, "Morpheus" and "Neo"...and seen it done on a grander scale in a superior fashion, IMO. Some of the ideas you mention would go quite a distence to relieve the bad feelings caused by this whole fiasco, but as it stands, I'm very puzzled that the Wachkowskis never so much as mentioned Morrison as an influence. There's no shame in doing that, because at least they'd be being honest.
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Feb 03, 2000 12:25:22 PM CST
THE MATRIX IS THE BEST SCI-FI FILM EVER. IT BEATS THE HELL OUT O
by say no more
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Feb 03, 2000 12:30:17 PM CST
THE MATRIX IS GREAT. DARK CITY SUCKS BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by say no more
YOU SHITTY BACKLASHERS. STOP BASHING THE MATRIX. IT IS BY FAR THE MOS IMAGINATIVE AND INNOVATIVE ACTION FILM OF THE LAS TWO DECADES.
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Everybody else has been posting about how Matrix borrowed elements from every other sci-fi film of the past twenty years, so let me post about another reason I didn't like it very much: The acting. Keanu is terrible in everything, we all know that, but Fishburn was up for an Oscar a couple of years ago. He put in one of the most monotoned performances I've seen in years. And the villan with the suit and sunglasses was so unthreatening and irritating, he was just plain boring. Carrie-Ann and Joey Pants did a nice job, and there were some cool effects, but come on people, to call this movie good is just ridiculous. Cool SPFX cannot make up for bad dialogue, wooden acting and predictable plot twists, and they couldn't have hit us over the head any harder with that whole Neo is Christ thing.
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If you think about it, Keanu was a perfect representation of the type of people who were stuck in the Matrix. Keanu wasn't good as an actor, but he works in that movie. Just like he worked in the "Bill & Ted" movies and in under-appreciated "Parenthood." I think my favorite part of the Matrix, besides the scenes with the kick-ass Carrie-Ann Moss (who also did the best job in the movie besides the special effects), was when Neo looks up after he gets all that info downloaded into his head and says, "I know Kung Fu." I immediately thought of how that reaction was the typical one people would have after getting a ton of information and skills pumped into their brain.***I also want to say that sequels to this movie are a bad idea because there is a full resolution, IMO, at the end of the first Matrix. I could see a prequel, but really, do we need that clogging up the theatres ? Or cloggin up the Talk Back message boards with fanboys going "This trilogy beats Star Wars any day! Can't wait for the sequel to Fight Club!"
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...is because it had all the elements of all the other movies we love. Combine all the kung-fu, sci-fi, film-noir, action and not to mention special effects and you have yourself this movie.
I loved it, seen it 17 times and no regrets for each one (especially the first hehehe). -
Feb 03, 2000 1:23:07 PM CST
The Matrix was cool, hip and fun to look at, but not as original
by niiiice
The basic equation is Blade Runner meets Akira meets Terminator. And no one can deny the obvious, heavy influence that the anime Akira had on the Matrix, from "bullet-time" to the part at the end where Keanu stops those bullets with a wave of his hand. What made the Matrix work is that it tok a bunch of wild imaginative ideas from the past and packaged them with a finish of high-gloss special effects. Now the fight scenes were just plain bad ass, I won't deny it, the choreography and cinematography made up for those times where it seemed Keanu was fighting himself. But when you get down to it, the Matrix is fairly straightforward, even in all its religious symbolism. There aren't too many ways of interpreting a film like this, as opposed to, say a multilayered film like Akira.
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I'm sorry, but the Wachowski brothers seriously screwed up when they chose Keanu "Whoa" Reeves to play their flagship character. Who can forget his wonderful talent when he said "I... can't tell you why... I don't know..." ARGH! The only reason why Reeves didn't ruin this movie like all the others he's destroyed is simply because he was given almost as few lines as Darth Maul! Let's not forget what a complete and total rip-off this movie was. Take Dark City, mix in Terminator, add guns and stiff ass wire supported kung fu, and you get the Matrix. Sure when I first saw the Matrix, I was wowed by it's imagery and it's intricate fight scenes. But that's all the movie is, the rest is just ripped off crap. This movie becomes more lousy after repeat viewings. And I never EVER want to see another "You can't die because I love you" scene in a movie again. It's always nice to see the evil hand of hollywood put a worthless romantic element into a film where it doesn't belong. The worst of it all was the Oracle/Yoda. The whole emphasis of Neo's destiny as the one is a FLAGRANT rip-off of Star Wars. And all of you lousy geeks out there praise The Matrix yet bash TPM. I'm sorry, but I'll take Jake Lloyd's "Yipee's" over Keanu Reeves "Whoa's" any day of the week. At least Lloyd has an excuse for being a bad actor, he's only 9 years old! Reeves has no excuse, and has no right what so ever to show his face on film again... unless it's another Bill & Ted, where his kind of dumbass features would be most welcome. Besides, Alex Winter has more talent than Keanu Reeves could ever wish to have... unfortunately Alex Winter was never the "pretty boy" hollywood loves to exploit.
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I really liked both of these movies, and I think MATRIX is sufficiently different from DARK CITY. DARK CITY is still a slightly better movie, though, just because the premise is more interesting. I mean, in DARK CITY, the aliens are searching for the soul. In THE MATRIX, the machines are searching for, uh, batteries. THE MATRIX does have Kung Fu, though.
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I really liked both movies and I think THE MATRIX is different enough not to be considered a ripoff. That being said, DARK CITY is still a slightly better film just because the premise is more interesting. I mean, in DARK CITY, the aliens are searching for the soul. In THE MATRIX, the machines are just searching for, uh, batteries. On the other hand, THE MATRIX had Kung Fu. Oh, whoever said that the Bill and Ted movies are dumb is mistaken. They're actually kinda clever, particularly the second one.
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What a boring, overrated crapfest it was. I'm so sick of people acting like it was the best film last year and was so ingenious. The plot wasn't anything we've seen before and Keannu was laughable in it.
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First off I want to remind you that the term is BORROW. They didn't "steal" ideas for the movie, they borrowed them. That's the Hollywood way. But anyway, has anyone read THE WONDERLAND GAMBIT? It's a trilogy of books by Jack L Chalker. It's about a group of people who are held prisoner in a virtual world, and uses extensive Alice in Wonderland/ through the looking glass type references. It's kinda middle of the road sf but there are some similarities. That's what people liked about The Matrix, it took all of these great ideas and put them in a blender with a generous helping of cool effects and out came a popular movie. Oh yeah, I forgot the leather costumes. If you didn't know about that stuff then you were amazed, if not you were happy that they finally took what you liked and showed the world that it was cool. Or you're just a bitter person and won't give anyone credit for anything. And by the way, how does Keanu know to pick movies like this? It has happened a couple times, right when he was about to fade into obscurity, he does a popular movie and BAM there he is again. OK enough.
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Feb 03, 2000 3:37:02 PM CST
Matrix, Dark City, Blade Runner - We've seen it all before
by gerhard paladin
Well, they don't seem to have cancelled my account yet so here I am with another two cents. I don't think there's really any point in trying to distinguish artistically between The Matrix and Dark City. All these films prove is just how few really good ideas there are floating around in the world of sci-fi films, and how they all mercilessly cannibalize each other. It didn't bother me that Matrix had an oracle, sort of like Yoda. What bothered me is that the characters were just postures - cool looking outfits and no real depth. I liked the movie enough, and I liked Dark City, but I don't care to see Matrix sequels unless they drastically change the tone, because I don't care about these characters. Matrix has one fatal flaw as a fantasy - no one would want to live in that world. You might want to live in the Star Wars universe, but unless you're Neo, living in the Matrix would suck. And Matrix cannot really be better than Blade Runner because without Blade Runner there would be no Matrix. The extent to which Matrix is convincing is the extent to which Ridley Scott already showed us that kind of world in Blade Runner. No one has made a better sci-fi film, as demonstrated by how obviously these movies keep ripping off BladeRunner. And Balde Runner had real characters. Rachel was every bit the tragic, sympathetic heroine. I don't even remember the chick's name in Matrix, and I saw it twice!
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People who complain about the Matrix being shallow: 1. didn't get it, 2. Must NOT play computer games. The beauty of the story is that there was no need to be any "deeper" In that setting, all of the prime-time zen that we all heard growing up was a literal explanation for the world around them.
There was no need to understand the underlying makeup of how the Matrix really worked, just like no programming knowlege is needed to play Quake on my computer. In that reality, the only requirement to be the Messiah would be a child like faith that the world they saw with their own eyes was not real, and that magic could exist. Anyone who could really do that, while taking themselves seriously would be God. That simple.
Basically, humanity was stuck inside of a giant, on-line computer game, right? Since the only interface needed for the computer was the mind, anyone simple minded, yet strong willed enough could reprogram the "game" automatically, on the fly, just by believing. The only weapon they would really need, is the simplicity of pseudo-zen platitudes.
"be the ball" "faith is the substance of things hoped for..." "there is no spoon"
In our world they might be simple inspirationals. In Neo's world they are practical instructions. -
I don't know about you people, but if you really focus on the acting, it's actually pretty lousy in the Matrix. In fact, it's some of the worst acting of 1999. The agents, well, I suppose they were meant to behave the way they did. However, with Keanu Reeves, Laurence Fishburne, and others, they could have done a lot better. The motion of the acting got kinda tedious after a while: slow and corny. Also, the lines were basically derivative of many other films. I know that dialog doesn't make a great film necessarily, but geez, there were hardly any good lines in the Matrix at all! Of course, it's better written than Event Horizon and Soldier combined, but ya know, it could use some work. It's interesting, but let's face it. Without the visual + special effects and the great direction, the movie would have seriously sucked.
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It's the Wachowski's first film (1996) before Matrix three years later, and it's an absolute gem. Nearly a perfect movie operating within the rules of the crime genre. And a million times better than the overrated hack-fest known as Matrix. I still can't believe they're both made by the same filmmakers. Comments?
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Of course everything about The Matrix' world was derivitive. Agent Smith basically SAID that. They took everything about the late twentieth century that people really dug, patched it together, and people liked it better than paradise.
The difference was that in this new world they created, there was no need for us, the audience, to suspend disbelief. Any cool, magical, spiritual thing could just be programmed into the simulation.
Didn't the Keanu/Fishburne fight scene say it all? Neo didn't really LEARN kung fu instantly. You could see him using the Bruce Lee/Tekken/John Woo elements that had been downloaded into him. The world they lived in was derivitive, but the movie itself was very relevant for a computer/internet junkie like myself. I think that's an important distinction.
Oh, and as far as the cast always wearing shades, and posing. OF COURSE they would. Every zit-faced puny kid has a "residual self-image" of themselves dressed in leather, kicking ass, and looking damn good while doing it. Of course their projection into a computer sim would have all of these elements. People ARE shallow that way. It doesn't make the movie shallow to point that out about them. -
I love how people can claim that movie full of nothing more than guns and kung fu, is "deep". I'm sorry, I DID get the Matrix, in fact... it was hard not to since we've seen it all before in at least a dozen or more films before it. I Do play computer games, and you know what... that didn't help the movie at all. It was lame... Hollywood has duped you again. In the sad thing is, there's going to be more of these movies. I guess all of you geeks out there who read gibson *laugh* and probably thought Johnny Nmueonic was cool will make the Matrix into the next Star Trek.
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...the Matrix has you all.
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What you say is true, of course. Truer than that even. Nothing happened in this movie. Not EVEN the guns and kung-fu. It was all just a big computer game to keep everyone's mind occupied, while the machines continue to use people as batteries. What did Neo win at the end? nothing. All of the drama, fighting etc. only happened in a computer game. Three or four people died, two or three machines got fried, the rebels feel all victorious, but the status quo continues in the real world. I never felt this movie was really about the guns, and shit. That's why it wasn't like Dark City. Dark City was about good vs evil. Matrix was about people being tricked into thinking they're fighting the good fight while doing nothing real. Totally different movie.
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I liked the Matrix initially, but have since become quite a curmudgeon about it. Mainly because I hate when people worship shit that is over rated.
The Matrix was a damn good popcorn movie, no more no less. A good use of 8 bucks, but ultimately unoriginal and disposable. And as far as having a "cool premise" that "made you think." Come on. Its premise was ridiculous.
The thing that really makes sci fi go is: plausabilty. It doesn't have to be "realistic" per se, but at least possible. Science fiction should expound on what science can not yet explain, but not contaradict what we already know.
Which brings me to the ridiculous and unforgivable oversight in the plot. The laws of Physics say that energy can not be created or destroyed. So humans will be a really shitty battery unless you have a food supply for them(which is a form of energy), and without sunlight you can't. Furthermore, only a tiny percntage of the energy input will be turned into energy output. Humans are an energy sink rather than energy source. Robots are dumb.
Furthermore, doesn't anyone else think it was stupid that the bad guys arrested Neo, let him go, and then later flush him into the sewers when they KNOW he one of Morpheus's targets?
These are some of the dumbest futuristic robots ever put on film. I have complete faith that Neo will easily defeat these dimwits in futer installments. -
I liked "The Matrix", but I actually thought it was kinda slow and boring in some sections. Like the whole visit to The Oracle. That whole scene was way too long. But it was a fun sci-fi/action flick, I liked it. However, IMO "Dark City" was much more interesting and stlyish. And though both movies had shallow comic-book characters, I liked the ones in "Dark City" more. In fact, I dare say "DC" would have been a perfect movie IF ONLY they`d taken out the opening narration that told you EVERYTHING that was happening in the opening scene! It would`ve been better if the audiance slowly found out what was happening, like the main character. BTW - speaking of Keonu (sp?) and Alex Winter, did anyone ever see Winter`s movie "Freaked" from the early 90`s? One of the funniest flicks I`ve ever seen.
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I have to say it's actually nice to hear that they're are others out there who also believe "The Matrix" to be really overrated. I've talked to many who have called it "Star Wars for our Generation" (not even close... besides, I thought the actual Star Wars was our generations "Star Wars"). Don't get me wrong, I did really enjoy it. But not past the point of thinking it was just a lot better than the horrid piece of crap I walked in thinking it would be. It was a nice surprise, but nothing more. It seems to me that the sci-fi genre has just produced so much crap in the last few years, that anything thats even remotly above mediocre gets hailed as brillant. At best The Matrix is nothing more than an intresting blend of 100 other Sci-fi/comicbook cliche's with a flashy C.G. polish. (I also have to agree with ealier posts... The whole bullet time spinning camera thing was neat, but it was being done before Matrix was even a script. It was only a mattter of time before "somebody" used it in a film... The Matrix just did it first, the directors didn't invent the process) Personally, and I'm still looking forward to Episode 2 and 3 more, than Matrix 2 and 3 (I mean, c'mon TMP was just more fun...)
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Agreed, Dark City was WAYYY better as sci fi. Its not even close. Still my favorite sci fi that has come out in nearly a decade is Pi. That movie kicks ass. Finally a sci fi movie that has nothing to do with: A) robots B) Aliens C) Genetic engineering or D)Genetically altered cyborgs from outerspace. Every time I watch I notice new shit. Now THAT is a movie that makes you think.
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In my last post change "TMP" to TPM.. duhhh...
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Any work of art is necessarily derivative. Artists take their inspiration from the work of other artists, who themselves were inspired by still other artists, going all the way back to when the first caveman scrawled the story of the hunt on a wall or told a story around the fire. There is no such thing as originality; it's like energy. You can't create a new idea, you can only take old ideas and mold them into new forms and new outlets. An artist can't express totally new thoughts in totally new ways, ever. What they must do is express ideas that are important to them, ideas that millions of people have had before, and express those ideas in a way that is significant to the artist. Everyone whining about "it's too much like this" or "they ripped off that" needs to understand that NOTHING IS MADE IN A VACUUM. That is all.
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I think you are correct to a point. It is not "impossible" to come up with a new idea. Its called "invention" and it happens all the time. Complete originality aside, a movie can be derivative and still be good if it brings a fresh perpective to the table. For instance, the idea of "what is reality" has been around since Decartes. Dark City, The Matrix, and The Thirteenth Floor, ALL deal with this issue. But Dark City takes it a step further and asks, "What is a 'life'" The characters are reborn every night at midnight. The have a lifetimes worth of experiance but have only had a body for a day. Which is it? Very cool idea. The Thirteenth Floor, which was not a great film, but was a competent film deals mainly with the ethics of creating an artificial world. Should the rights of a couple sectors of a hard drive ever be respected? Kinda cool I think. The Matrix brought nothing new to the table. It stuck to the whole "what if the world is an illusion" bit. Yawn.
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In most humble opinion, The Matrix was the most entertaining movie of 99, and while I liked The Phantom Menace, I think the Wachowskis could make George Lucas their bitch faster than you can say "marketing tie-ins" Sure they borrowed alot, but just about any cool Sci-fi movie "borrows", either from other movies, genres, or books. Anyone remember the lost suite against Alien by the author of "Discord in Scarlet" Keanu isn't the best actor either, but he did what was needed for the film, and the gap effects were slightly overused, but still cool.
Ironicaly, my source indicate their was a deliberate reason for the scene from Night of the Lepus. It turns out the world of the future is actually a simulation itself, one where the rabbits overrun humanity and began using them as food. I have heard that the end fight sequence between Neo and a 7 foot tall hare is quite exhilarating! -
So what will the next films be anyway? Prequels or Sequels or on of each. I havent't really heard anything about it, so maybe Harry could give us some info on that.
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so you're not gonna post, wow. i have an announcement too: i am going to continue to post! settle down, now. by the way, off the subject, the Matrix was an awesome movie. here's another announcement: i'm gonna go take a shit! later-- (by the way, i put a lot of thought and effort into this posting- ooh, here it comes)
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If there is not enough care given to the writting of The Matrix 2& 3 then the movies could fail to be the masterpieces that The original Matrix was. And by the way The Difference between the Matrix and Dark City is that, (at least in the UK), People liked the film!
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"I will be reviewing it and telling you whether it will tear your eyelids off and put you on a ventilation machine... or if it'll just put ya to sleep."
I hope you did not predict two years ago that it would put me on a ventilation machine, because I actually did start nodding off in the theatre during the last half hour of the first one. I was tired that day, but if it HAD been top material I could have stayed awake in amazement. I hope th ebest for the sequels... -
Who cares if you "retire"? You made me laugh once and awhile and were entertaining but there wont be a big whole in my heart from not hearing your talk backs anymore. Christ. Me? I like to "induce" vomit so this one goes out to that special someone...you know who you are. Whats the difference between Goodfellas 2 and Mike J. Fox? One's a bad idea for a film and the other is a guy who cant walk three steps without triping and shaking like a pair of wind up teeth.
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...nobody has used that idea before. That's because it's RIDICULOUS. That's the reason.
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Yes, you do have a point. However, what if I decided to do a movie about a young man named Johnny Blackhole, who grew up farming coconuts on a sandy world named Diodine until he was discovered by a man named Ulysses Yoshi, a Jeddah skilled in the ways of The One Power and the use of Lumiknives? Would you call my creation original? This is more-or-less what the Matrix is when compared to the Invisibles- minor differences in the terminology and such, but on the whole a rip-off of an entire concept. Yeah, Invisibles and Star Wars are mish-mashes of previously existing stuff (hell, Star Wars mished Jack Kirby's Fourth World into the mash pretty heavily), but both found their own styles and were being written by people who had their own voices. Matrix, to my mind, isn't saying anything interesting and it certainly isn't saying it in it's own voice.
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The entire UK can suckle the teat of Posh Spice, it still dosen't mean she is worth 2 dog turds in my book.
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this is off topic, but could anyone direct me to that site harry mentioned where people could submit pitches. thanks.
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Has anyone touched upon what The Matrix owes to the language William Gibson used in his book back in 1984? Re-reading it recently, I was struck by so many similarities... the "matrix", the "construct", "Zion"... just to name a few.
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You know, the funniest thing about this talkback is how many folks in here are not only supporters of that laughably horrendous PM, but are also quite probably among those who were raving about how amazing The Matrix was when it first appeared, and are now gleefully jumping on the "I HATE it" or "It's SO overrated" bandwagons. What a load of bollocks! YES, Matrix "borrowed" lots from other films and myths. YES, of course Keanu couldn't act his way out of a paper bag and generally looks clueless on screen. I actually thought he was perfect in the role in playing a pretty clueless character (there was even a joke about his lack of brights during the Oracle scene). Fishburne wasn't bad. Not his best performance ever, but certainly not his worst. As for the "cheesier" parts, that was CAMP, folks. Lighten up a little.The film quite conciously aped westerns, sci-fi, martial arts films and many others. I thoroughly enjoyed it. It wasn't the greatest film of all time, but it was exciting and the SFX were well done and fun to watch. In all it was an entertaining viewing experience, in sharp contrast to PM, unfortunately.
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What was so great about "The Matrix?" While I liked it on a surface level, that's all it was: surface, with not much substance. This movie was not "metaphysical" or "deep" in any way. Keanu as Jesus! Ooooh! I get it! How profound! Pardon me while I have an orgasm! No wonder the fanboys filled their shorts. As for the people who claim that the film's detractors "don't get it" - God, how I hate that expression - did you ever think that maybe you're the ones who "don't get it?"
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Feb 04, 2000 12:09:55 AM CST
Matrix and Buddhism, they are intertwined, and a practicing budd
by silentscott
I like typing it all in the subhect :)
S.S. -
True Sci-Fi? How about 2001, or Blade Runner, or Solaris, or 12 Monkeys. Not The Matrix. I enjoyed it, but it was a fucking manga movie, nothing more. Those who might think otherwise are morons. Star Wars isn't sci-fi either, but I sure enjoyed the hell out of TPM more so than Matrix. I'll be there for the sequels, but don't fool yourself - The Matrix, by its very nature, is derivative. Shit, even the Wachowski Bros. said so. Joseph Campbell didn't get this much recognition when he was alive.
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I'm sorry, but I think it's you who doesn't understand. First off, the Matrix WASN'T A COMPUTER GAME. There was no little list that popped up to show how many Frags Neo aquired through the movie. It was a S-I-M-U-L-A-T-I-O-N. Any game designed to be exactly like real life wouldn't be a very effective Game. Face it... it is a RIP OFF. False realities have been done before in movies and DONE FAR BETTER. To say that The Matrix with it's flagrantly ripped of plot, as being profound is out right just silly. That's the problem with sci fi geeks, they go around claiming films with some nifty gimmick like special effect and psuedo philosophical undertones is "profound." Wait till the sequels come out, and you have to endure more of Keanu "the pretty boy" Reeves' acting... somehow I don't think anyone will feel these movies to be profound. In case you didn't notice... THE MATRIX IS ABOUT GOOD VS. EVIL. I suppose you don't think the Agent's or the "machines" were viewed as the antogonists of the film? I'm sorry, but to claim that people don't "get" is the lamest excuse to save the movie from much needed criticism.
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Feb 04, 2000 1:09:43 AM CST
hehe, we humans DO get territorial about the straaangest things
by lyonardo
ok, ok. I'll sit down and watch the dvd again tommorow. MAYBE I read too much into the movie. Maybe in my own sick mind I added much more depth, and meaning to a dumb-as-nails movie. I'll reserve judment until I watch it again.
Though Guyver's distinction between computer game/simulation just seems plain argumentative. Of course I was drawing a parallel with what's available on desktops today. My real POINT was that the good/evil conflict in this movie is just a smoke screen: Because in the "real world" nothing really changed, except the "good guys" lost a few good troops. -
BigLarz!, one more day and we would have forgotten about you and your posse. Have you no mercy, or shame for that matter? What have you, DMFC, and Frank Horrigan been plotting in your backyard clubhouse? More names to go above idiotic posts to entertain your non-existent legions of supporters? I guess when you make a fool out of yourself and take a few days to cool off, it's kind of depressing when no one asks "what happened to...?" Well, I guess now you know how no one misses your presence(s). Unholy Trinity of Talkback, don't let the ISP hit you on the ass(es) on the way out...
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Feb 04, 2000 2:17:14 AM CST
Screw originality, the Matrix dumbed down some wild ideas and ma
by niiiice
All the little films that posit wild and complex ideas were simplified in the Matrix, so the average moviegoer could go in, think he's watching something deep, and get a kick out of it while being fed his necessary dose of action scenes. What I liked about it was that it could deal with old philosophical ideas, namely those of Kant (the noumenal and phenomenal realm), and put a cyberpunk spin on it. A fresh approach to an age-old idea. The most appealing part of the film were its "bullet-time" sequences, which gave everyone who has never seen a Japanese animtaed film the chance to go "ga ga" over something innovative. But the problem is that the film is more than simply "derivative". It took things, even scenes from other films and, knowing that few in the mainstream audience has seen them before, could pass them off as its own. I could point out that more than half of the Matrix's ideas came from Akira, from the One to the part where Neo stops bullets with a wave of his hand. Being a die-hard anime lover, it saddens me to see the Matrix getting mainstream credit for ideas that the Japanese have been animating for years and years.
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I'm surprised that the comparison of "Dark City" to "The Matrix" even came up at all. *But once it did, I couldn't resist comparing them*
I see no rip-off here. Sure each offer a tear in the fabric of reality. But that's about it. What I do see is a difference in quality. "Dark City" was poorly acted except for William Hurt who did a mediocre job instead of a bad one. Perhaps Rufus Sewell did okay as well as John Murdoch. But there should be no discussion between Keanu's acting in "The Matrix", which was by far much better than Keifer's acting in "Dark City". I may have laughed at Keaunu's Kung Fu moves...but I groaned at Keifer's portrayal of the doctor (though I did laugh when the little Stranger in "Dark City" yelled "Kill Him!" and caused a verbal riot from the troops of Strangers - why the little kid anyway? What was up with that?)
And who could believe in the storyline of "Dark City" as it was presented in this film?
Needless to say, the truth rings out and quality shines where it is. When "Dark City" was over and the lights came on, I chatted about the new films opening soon. Interesting film. Better than "The Crow".
When "The Matrix" was over and the lights came on, I chatted about "The Matrix". An excellent film...not perfect, but thought provoking and fun as hell.
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BigLarz!, one more day and we would have forgotten about you and your posse. Have you nomercy, or shame for that matter? What have you, DMFC, and Frank Horrigan been plotting inyour backyard clubhouse? More names to go above idiotic posts to entertain your non-existent legions of supporters? I guess when you make a fool out of yourself and take a few days to cool off, it's kind of depressing when no one asks "what happened to...?" Well, I guess now you know how no one misses your presence(s). Unholy Trinity of Talkback, don't let the ISP hit you on the ass(es) on the way out...
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Feb 04, 2000 3:17:27 AM CST
Matrix "thought-provoking and fun as hell???" You just proved m
by niiiice
Yeah, the Matrix was an entertaining piece of eye-candy, but it sure as hell was not thought-provoking. The ideas and concepts which it simplified and which it was based on were thought-provoking, the Matrix was purely straightforward. No one left the theaters after seeing the Matrix with people scratching their heads. The movie didn't leave any philosophical loose ends, everything was answered. We weren't left thinking "hey, maybe they are still in the Matrix and only THINK they escaped". The directors played it safe on the film, they didn't do anything daring, which was why it wasn't thought provoking. The plot was interesting and they could have made it the theme of the film, but it only served as a basis to play the action off of.
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I have never had a problem with you or your posts, but now you are pushing it. I do not want to hear about how many fans you have! It doesn't matter. TalkBack is for movie news but you never seem to have anything to say, you only complain. People have a right to disagree with what you say just as you have a right to say what you want.
Say what ever the hell you want about movies but don't sound off about your popularity! -
Just so as you now, I visit this web site simply to read the news on the films, not to start little slagging contests with people that have differing views. What is it with you people.
For my personal view, Matrix, while not being the best film of last year, was a very long way from being the worst. If you look at it another way, the amount of crap which is being kicked out in production is astronomical. This takes nothing back from the occasional gem which is made, but there is a reason for this, just about every idea possible to turn into a movie has been done repeatedly. I mean as a normal person, can you think of any type of plot which has not been used? If so write to the companies, they will be ecstatic to hear. I know this as I have a (very minor) position in a studio, and it is known by all who work there that original idea's simply do not exist.
Thank you for your time, although I get the feeling that most people with any brains will have given up reading this by now. -
The tv footage showing rabbits is from a movie called "Night of the Lepus".
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Am I alone on this opinion that the Matrix had no 3rd ACT? The computers continue to run reality and Neo is what...the messiah? He's still fighting with the machines. If they did this intentionally to produce other sequels, at least give closure to the first story.
I'd rather watch Dark City, Blade Runner, 12 Monkeys and Existence any day than spend a second on the Matrix again. Oh wait...the movies I mentioned above are exactly what those pretentious jerks "took from" in making their obnoxious low-brow film. -
Look, being a janitor at a movie studio does not give you authority to declare that there are no new ideas. Maybe you can say that there are no new ideas "coming out of movies studios." And I might agree with you, but original ideas will always exist. There have been plenty of movies about the holocaust. But still the sheer originality of "Life is Beautiful" blew me away. Likewise Saving Private Ryan was another WWII movie, of which there have probably been hundred, but still Speilberg made it fresh by telling a very original and compelling story with the setting being Normandy, rather than the battle being the story in and of itself. Being John Malkovich was highly original, I personlly didn't like it as much as everyone else, but it was extremely original. I have posted earlier, Pi, is almost completely original. I really couldn't even start to compare that movie to another one. If you notice all of these "orginal" movies, are also pretty damn GOOD movies.
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The Matrix was about as deep as the sheep like to get...
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"existenz" was "the matrix" for smart people. -
The matrix was not a great movie because of the special effects, great as they were. The great part was the deeper levels. The premise was good, maybe great but not completely original. What set the Matrix apart was the symbolism. Man was taken and controled by a faceless emotionless juggernaut of its own creation without even knowing it. Like bureacracy. Like religion. Like every social system has the potential to. There was also the whole religous angle as well. The great visuals were just a plus.
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I sorry but I can not stand this guy. I heard it said once that he would be great in the silent film era. I have to agree.
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..... THE MOJO.... THE MOJO IS EVERYWHERE.... IT IS IN THE ROOM WHEN YOU'RE WITH A HOT CHICK.... IT IS AT A FRAT PARTY WHERE YOU SEE A DRUNK WOMAN THROWING HER TOP OFF.. IT IS... THE MOJO....
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OK, thought I could reply to some people here: ***THE PARDONER: What has writing got to do with me thinking Keanu's acting in The Matrix was cool? In case you wanted to know, yes I have learnt to write (well, duh!), actually a whole fucking lot. I am on the second draft on a novel and so far I've got heaps of good criticism for it (and no, the ones who've reviewed it is not only my friends, though I know my friends dare to say that it stinks if it would). I'm not saying this to brag or anything, but I just you can take your comment "If you did, that cheapens the whole enterprise of writing" and shove it up somewhere. Of course I was laughing when seeing him in the tunnel, getting up and doing that silly thing, but it was meant to be that way. Had the Wachowski brothers not want it, they hadn't included it. It's supposed to look funny. ***ALL THUMBS: You say that the sequels are a bad idea. Eh, the thing is that the Wachowski brothers saw this as a trilogy from the beginning. It'd be like saying that the idea of sequels to Star Wars sucked back in the seventies. I can't say The Matrix beats the ORIGINAL Star Wars-movies. I think they're all great. However, TPM sucked beyond understanding. Oh, and I gotta say, I LOVE FIGHT CLUB!! However, no sequels needed there, he he! ***GUYVER - III: Actually, it was the hand of the evil Wachowski brothers, if you want to put it in that way, that put in the romantic elements into the film. Read the script. *** CAPT. CAPITALIST: AhahahaHAHA
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I feel sorta sorry (just sorta) for all of the people who say "the Matrix was just a bunch of guns and some kung fu"
Not that I care if anyone else LIKED the movie. I just don't understand how they could miss the other obvious, deliberate elements that were in the movie.
It's like if someone eats a lasagna, then says "awwww, it was just a bunch of cheese, and some tomato sauce".
It's not that I'd give a damn if they LIKED the lasagna, I'd just wonder what's wrong with their taste buds that they missed the other ingredients. -
Okay, dude. Work with me here. I think most folks witha rudmentary background is science intuitively understand why the central premise of the Matrix is impossible and really pretty stupid. In essence, what the robots would have created is a perpetual motion machine, which in thermodynamically impossible. But, I will spell it out explictly for you. No, I did not miss the liquifid dead people angle. Think of how many liquifid dead people it would take to sustain a human for say sixty years. Really, how many? It won't be a one to one ratio, I KNOW that off hand. So let's figure it out. A one pound raw sirlion steak is 985 calories. Now, the bare minimum amount of food that a person must eat to remain healthy is 1200 calories, which equals about 1.2 pounds of meat. So each person will consume *roughly* one 150 pound person every 125 days or a little more than 4 months. Thats 3 people a year and 180 people every sixty human-years. Think of it this way, for each million people that survive through one year, 3 million have to die. Do you see the problem yet? I bet you do. There you go Jonah. You, too, can understand SCIENCE. Now, onto Boyle's Law...
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I'll be the first to admit Keanu is no Lawrence Olivier, but he was excellent in The Matrix. That same blank-eyed bewilderment that sucks all the credibility out of one of Shakespeare's villins seems ideally suited to a guy that's been taken out of his reality and thrown 200 years into the future. "Whoa," sums that up pretty well and no one says, "Whoa" with more credibility than Keanu...
I'm not sure how well this speaks for his performance in the sequels, but bewildered passes for serene and collected in savior-leader types, so I'm optimistic. -
What most people do not know about the matrix is that it has nothing to do with any other past film. The two brothers that directed this film got the ideal from some japanese comic book. Not any blade runner or Dark City.
I seen the comic and the movie is just like the comic not stolen from other movie plots of hollywood.
Another thing is that the actors in this movie are for real. They trained for over 4 months under some martial arts expert in japan. So the critics out there shouldn't question the dedication of Keanu Reeves as an acter.
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IT'S ONE OF THE WORST SCI-FICTION MOVIE THAT I EVER SAW!!! IT REALLY WAS LAME AND A PEICE OF CRAP!!! EVERY STUPID PRICKS WHO THINKS MATRIX IS GOOD, JUMP OUT A WINDOW OR DIE BY SUFFOCATING!!! MATRIX 2&3? BAD IDEA!!! THE CGI IN THE MOVIE WAS TERRIBLE!!! IT JUST LOOKED SOOOO FAKE!!! AND THE HONG KONG-STYLE ACTION? THAT REALLY SUCKED!!!! THE OTHER UPCOMING MATRIX MOVIES WILL BE NOTHING BUT A PILE OF CRAP LIKE THE ORIGINAL SHIT!!! ALL OF YOU QUEER BRATS WHO LIKES THIS MOVIE FUCK OFF AND DIE!!!!!! AND I DON'T CARE IF ANYONE THREATENS ME BECAUSE I WROTE THIS... >:P
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Well my work is done :)
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